20150318-G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B. To MR TONY ABBOTT PM-Re What Security When It Can Be Simply Circumvented

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WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Mr Tony Abbott PM
Cc:
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C/o josh.frydenberg.mp@aph.gov.au
Bill Shorten Bill.Shorten.MP@aph.gov.au
Daniel Andrews Premier Victoria daniel.andrews@parliament.vic.gov.au
Senator George Brandis senator.brandis@aph.gov.au
Mr Clive Palmer Admin@PalmerUnited.com
Jacqui Lambie senator.ketter@aph.gov.au
Frank Chung frank.chung@news.com.au
George Williams george.williams@unsw.edu.au
Ref; 20150318-G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B. to Mr Tony Abbott PM-Re Re What security when it can be simply circumvented?
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Tony,
FOR SOME YEARS NOW I HAVE BEEN OPURCHASING MOBILES ALBEIT
THEY HAVE NOT BEEN USED. I PURCHASE AT TIMES 10 OR MORFE SIMCARDS
AT ONE TIME AND THEN THEY REMAIN WITHOUT REGISTRATION UNLESS I
USE THEM.
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If using all capital letters is shouting then well so be it, as obviously if I can avoid registration
so often then imagine real potential terrorist can do!
.
I went to a store, a few years ago, and purchased ab out 15 simcards and modems. None were
registered on my name. In fact on no ones name when sold to me. Most of the modems are still
new in the sealed package.
I last week purchase another 10 modems and simcards and none of them are recorded.
All I need to do is to use a simcard to activate is to use any identity, if desire even of a death
person, and still in a lawful manner (I am not making known how that can be to avoid copy
cats) and I can use the simcards for anything I like.
I also discovered that if I purchase a simcard for a modem then I can get this used for a modem.
This as I was asked in the past if I desired to do so.
Even if I were to desire to be so to say A suicide bomber using a simcard and mobile do you
really think that having my identity would make one of iota difference after I were to have blown
myself to smithereens? As such, this elaborate system to record simcards, modems, mobiles, etc
is simply not working. It is a huge burden upon retailers and so also a flow on cost to the
consumers and yet as I proved it is so simple to get ample of them to be used if a purchaser
desires to do so for mass bombings.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/6147275
QUOTE
iiNet 'allowed 100,000 dodgy downloads'

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ABC October 6, 2009, 4:42 pm

The Federal Court has heard almost 100,000 illegal downloads of video and music files were detected during
a 59-week investigation of the internet service provider iiNet.
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Mr G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B.
INSPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD
A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0
PLEASE NOTE: You may order books in the INSPECTOR-RIKATI series by E-mail INSPECTORRIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com at blog Http://www.scribd.com/InspectorRikati
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A group of 34 film, television and music companies is suing the company for allowing its customers to
illegally share files.
The court has heard the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft had warned iiNet during the
investigation that its customers were illegally sharing files, but the internet provider failed to act.
The prosecution alleges iiNet drew up a policy document dealing with repeat copyright infringers, but never
implemented it for fear of driving away customers and losing revenue.
Hotmail hacked
Also today Microsoft said that passwords belonging to some users of its Hotmail email service were exposed
on an Internet site, but had since been taken down.
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The company did not say how many users were affected, but some reports suggested that passwords to more
than 10,000 accounts were exposed.
"We are aware that some Windows Live Hotmail customers' credentials were acquired illegally by a phishing
scheme and exposed on a website," a Microsoft spokesman said.
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Phishing is a scam whereby fraudsters get hold of personal information by sending out emails under the guise
of a bank, IT department or some other trustworthy source.
END QUOTE
Because my 82 year old wife has in the past allowed strangers remote control of her laptop,
despite my numerous warnings, I hold it better to change her simcard and modem every month.
And yes I also did change her laptop.
And that brings me to the next issue. What security exist at all, if any, that a would-be terrorist
doesnt use a legitimate registered modem/simcard/mobile?
In November 2014 I was stuck on an intersection and had to call the RACV just couldnt locate
my mobile. In the end someone else called the RACV. After my vehicle was towed I then with
another vehicle went back to the last place I had used the mobile (Only minutes before the
breakdown) but to no avail. I decided to go to the Victorian Police as to report my mobile
missing just in case it was located by someone else. The police advised me to get the Mobile
details, the mobile number was not good enough. So I had to go to the service provider the next
day to get from them a statement of the relevant details. I went back to the Police station
(Heidelberg) and was told to wait. After 10 minutes I decided to leave.
The mobile was still beeping when I used another mobile, but I was unable to locate it.
Obviously, if the mobile were to be in the hands of a would-be terrorist then the lack of police
assistance may prevent it to be closed down.
Weeks later I discovered the mobile was located between the centre of the vehicle and the
passenger seat, when I collected the vehicle from the repairer. It turned out all right but for the
same all the so called anti-terrorist legislation ends up worthless in real life.
.
For sure being a senior citizen they may also not bother about my details when purchasing 10 or
15 modems and simcards, etc, but how do they know if I am not going to sell it on to make a
buck to would-be terrorist? They dont!
All this recording can be so to say circumvented just by being an old friendly old man! And not
just by one store!
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Even if a store does go through the hassle to fill in a spade of documentation the next time they
cant bother when they recognise me as being the one purchasing at least 10 at the time. So all
those anti-terrorism laws are really falling down in that regard.
.
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And, let be clear about it I am doing absolutely nothing unlawful.

Even if I were to register the cards in the name of a deceased person then still I know how to do
so lawfully. Dont forget many a person is driving a motor vehicle registered in the name of a
person long deceased, and so lawfully! After all I did so for many years! Actually, when I
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desired to have it registered in my own name I had all kind of problems to achieve this until I
contacted the then Premier who ensured it was done without further hassle.
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Consider if you drive a vehicle of a dead person. Any traffic infringement notice will not go
against your license as points, etc. Actually the same if driving a vehicle registered in the name
of a person who holds no driving license!
As author of books published in the INSPECTOR-RIKATI series on certain constitutional
and other legal issues it is important to me to expose in a grandiose manner how all these so
called anti-terrorism legislation basically are worth nothing in reality and can be circumvented
without acting unlawful.
Having stated the above then the following also will show to be worthless, because I can
purchase a mobile/simcard/modem without any recordings against my identity and still do so
lawfully, and then use them and have them registered in another identity and still do so lawfully,
and this whole DATA RETENTION IS WORTHLESS.
ALL THE GOVERNMENT AND AUTHORITIES WILL BE ABLE TO DO IS TO
OBTAIN DATA RELATING TO SOME IDENTITY NOT HAVING TO BE MY OWN,
WHEN I USE ANY IDENTITY EVEN SO IN A LAWFUL MANNER.
But, I oppose the DATA RETENTION this is because as a CONSTITUTIONALIST, I hold it
is unconstitutional.
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Some years ago I intended to use iiNet as a service provider, but discovered that this service
provider was
QUOTE 11-6-2009 email
Kevin,
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last week I decided to go from dial up to broadband Internet service and contacted iiNet for this. I was
advised that I would need to change from Optus to Telstra for this. I didnt have an issue with this. However,
I was the next day advised that they could not proceed with that I would keep my same phone number as then
I would to have to arrange that myself.
.
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 I did make a formal request for Telstra to transfer me to them from Optus and
for me to keep the same phone number.
Now this means that I will be paying Optus line rental and once it changes also Telstra line rental only to
change subsequently to iiNet where the line rental no longer is applicable.
.
Surely this is an absurd situation and unduly requires me to pay out line rental that I may not need at all.
.
When I indicated to Telstra that I desired to change over from Optus to Telstra on 23 June 2009 I was advised
that it could take anything up to 3 weeks to change me over and so they could not provide for this. I choose
23 June as the Optus bill is from the 25th of each month!
.
When then I change from Telstra to iiNet I will again be unable to get the transfer done at the end of the
month billing and so may be forced to pay both Optus and Telstra for monthly fee even so it may be a mere
one or two days past the billing cycle and again beyond my control.
.
It seems to me that the nonsense of iiNet not being able to transfer me with keeping my phone number is
precisely that, nonsense. iiNet claims that I can only do so as they are not authorised doing so but the point is
that when I phoned Telstra it has no problem doing so on my behalf.
.
Also disturbing is that iiNet in their email made known that they are not committed to the ordinary legal
requirements of service. Now, I view that the Minister for Communication should investigate this kind of
conduct if this is appropriate and if there may be needed legislation in place to ensure that people are not
unduly caused to pay line rental where not needed.
.
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Obviously, I can provide a copy of the email from iiNet if this is required as to also investigate why iiNet
could circumvent legislative provisions otherwise applicable to Optus, Telstra, etc.
.
If legislation can be circumvented somehow by legal loopholes then surely they need to be addressed?
.
Gerrit
.
Mr. G. H. Schorel-Hlavka
.
11-6-2009
END QUOTE 11-6-2009 email
.
Consider the following also from below quoted email

QUOTE email communication with iiNet
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For example your website refers to a what appears to be a non existing Section 282!
your website refers to section 287 which doesn;'t support at all the claims you state in
your website and as such it appears to me that iiNet is deceiving customers and likely
may unlawfully release details/information to so called lawenforcement agencies
without lawful authority
END QUOTE email communication with iiNet
This now has been altered and the following was applicable until 2003.
http://www.iinet.net.au/about/legal/pdf/iinet-cra-full.pdf
QUOTE 18-3-2015
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11.2 We may disclose Personal Information about you for the purposes set out in clause
11.3 to:
(a) our employees, agents or contractors;
(b) a Related iiNet Entity;
(c) Suppliers who need access to the Personal Information to provide us with
services that enable us to supply the Service to you;
(d) a credit reporting agency, credit provider or fraud-checking agency;
(e) our professional advisers, including our accountants, auditors and lawyers;
(f) other telecommunication and information service providers (for example, if
you obtain services from other providers, we may need to disclose your
personal information for billing purposes);
(g) your authorised representatives or your legal advisers (for example, when
requested by you to do so); or
(h) government and Regulatory Authorities and other organisations, as
required or authorised by law (for example, to the operator of the Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND), which supplies information for telephone
directories and to law enforcement agencies
Use of your personal information
11.3 We may collect, use and disclose Personal Information about you for the purposes
of:
(a) verifying your identity;
(b) assisting you to subscribe to our services and the services of iiNet Related
Entities;
(c) providing the services you require from us and from iiNet Related Entities;
(d) administering and managing those services, including billing, account
management and debt collection;
(e) conducting appropriate checks for credit-worthiness and for fraud;
(f) determining whether to provide to you (or to cease or limit the provision to
you of) trade, personal or commercial credit and the ongoing credit
management of your account;
(g) researching and developing our services;
(h) business planning;
(i) providing your Personal Information to the manager of the Integrated Public
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Number Database (IPND) for the Approved Purposes; and

SECTION A: GENERAL TERMS
Customer Relationship Agreement 20
(j) promoting and marketing our services, products and Special Offers to you
and the products and services of Related iiNet Entities, unless you request
that we do not use your personal information in this way (for example, by
choosing to opt-out at the time your information is collected by us, or by
contacting the Customer Service Centre at anytime on 13 22 58).
11.4 Access to Personal InformationIf you are a natural person (i.e. an individual), you
are entitled to access your Personal Information held by us, unless we are permitted
or required by law to refuse such access.
Failure to supply Personal Information
11.5 If you choose not to provide all or part of the Personal Information we request, we
may not be able to provide you with the Services requested by you, or we may
refuse to provide, or limit the provision to you of, any Service or personal or
commercial credit requested by you.
11.6 By providing Personal Information to us and acquiring the Service, you acknowledge
and consent to the collection, use and disclosure of your Personal Information as set
out in this clause 11 and in accordance with our privacy policy. A copy of our
privacy policy is available at our offices or on our Website.
END QUOTE 18-3-2015
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My issue is that as indicated in the quoted email; communication below that unsuspected
customers of iiNet had signed up to a contract including terms and conditions referring to nonexisting legislation. Lawyers in effect by it albeit unaware gave up their client-solicitor
privileges.
HANSARD 17-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the National
Australasian Convention)
QUOTE Mr. DEAKIN.What a charter of liberty is embraced within this Bill-of political liberty and religious liberty-the
liberty and the means to achieve all to which men in these days can reasonably aspire. A charter of
liberty is enshrined in this Constitution, which is also a charter of peace-of peace, order, and good
government for the whole of the peoples whom it will embrace and unite.
END QUOTE
And
HANSARD 17-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
QUOTE
Mr. SYMON (South Australia).- We who are assembled in this Convention are about to commit to the
people of Australia a new charter of union and liberty; we are about to commit this new Magna Charta
for their acceptance and confirmation, and I can conceive of nothing of greater magnitude in the whole
history of the peoples of the world than this question upon which we are about to invite the peoples of
Australia to vote. The Great Charter was wrung by the barons of England from a reluctant king. This new
charter is to be given by the people of Australia to themselves.
END QUOTE
What kind of POLITICAL LIBERTY exist if anyone can check my records?

HENCE, TO MAINTAIN CERTAIN CON FIDENTIALITY I WOULD BE FORCED TO
USE UNREGISTERED SIMCARDS/MODEMS/MOBNILES SO THAT ANY PERSON
GIVING ME SENSITIVE INFORMATION CANNOT BE TRACED.
While ordinary people do not object for me to use their identity (this also to avoid any allegation
of plagiarism) however at times confidentiality is requested. If therefore the DATA
RETENTION is required by legislation, even if excluding journalist, it still could severely
jeopardise the need for me to keep confidential those who are contacting me not only as a
CONSTITUTIONALIST and author but also as part of my special lifeline service under the
motto MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL (since 1982), where people contact me about
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contemplating suicide, etc, and wouldnt want to have their details known to any law
enforcement authority.
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As I have set out above I see no justification for the commonwealth of Australia neither any law
enforcement agency to willy nilly be ab le to check out any data retention and if the
Commonwealth of Australia blatantly disregard my constitutional rights then I am entitled to
disregard any legislation that pursued to deprive me of my constitutional rights.
.
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Remember the GST deal to exclude fresh food, whereas now there is a talk about including fresh
food! As such it shows that any exclusion of today in regard of DATA RETENTION may be
worth nothing either tomorrow or thereafter.
QUOTE email communication with iiNet
From: G. H. SCHOREL-HLAVKA <schorel-hlavka@schorel-hlavka.com>
To: Peter - iiNet Provisioning <peter.l@corporate.iinet.net.au>
Cc: schorel-hlavka@schorel-hlavka.com
Date: Monday, August 10, 2009 05:22 pm
Subject: Re: AND FURTHER - Re: Naked DSL application delay (ref: 61716565)
Attachments:
Text version of this message. (21KB)
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You seem to misconceive what the Office of the Ombuddsman is about. It is not an
office that is to deal with each and every complaint merely because one or more of a
party in a dispute is ignorant to proper conduct. The Office of the Ombudsman (in
whatever field) is only to be requested to get involved when basically the parties in
dispute have exhausted all possible avenues to resolve matters appropriately.
.
In my viewe there has been a total failure by iiNet to seek to resolve the matter in an
appropriate manner and I view you are so to say using a tunnel vision and by this
unable to be open minded. You may not like my comments in that regard but then try
to understand what I am on about and you might perhaps realise that indeed there is
a total failure by you to even seek to attempt to address the issues complained of.
.
Mr G. H. Schorel-Hlavka
.
10-8-2009
-----Original Message----From: Peter - iiNet Provisioning [mailto:peter.l@corporate.iinet.net.au]
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 02:44 PM
To: INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com
Subject: Re: AND FURTHER - Re: Naked DSL application delay (ref: 61716565)
Dear Sir, Thank you for your disparaging remarks regarding my abilities and experience. I did not say that
iiNet would refuse to deal with this matter, only that we would refuse to deal with this matter without the use
of an appropriate intermediary or mediatory body. The preferred mediatory body is the Telecommunications
Industry Ombudsman, which is a free service. You can find their contact details here: http://www.tio.com.au/
Kind Regards, Peter -- Senior Customer Service Representative iiNet Provisioning Team
>Peter, >I view you lack the competence and authority to deal with this matter appropriately and as such
urge you to place it in the hands of more senior person, as I requested previously. >. >
As I stated previously I purchased a connection-kit and this essentially constitute a contract that iiNet must
provide me with services albeit with "terms and conditions" that are reasonable and lawful.
As I have disputed the validity of certain parts of the "terms and conditions" and you have already recognised
that certain parts of "terms and conditions" were inappropriate then unless I release you (that is iiNet) of your
contractual obligations you are bound to ensure that any "terms and conditions" are in compliance to
constitutional and other legal provisions. >. >
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As I indicated previously that this matter should be handed over to the Board of Directors I urge you to do so
without further delay, as obviously you lack the understanding and competence to realise the severe
consequences of it all. >. >
Not to respond to my correspondence isn't going to resolve anything but mere looks like some ostrich kind of
policy that could again have severe consequences for iiNet. Indeed I view may question the competence of
iiNet as being fit and proper to be an internet provider if it may have been unlawfully disclosing confidential
details and may have ongoing been deceiving clients in accepting unconstitutional/unlawful terms and
conditions. >. >
I am not aware that you (again this means iiNet) have provided me with amended "terms and conditions" in
accordance to my constitutional and other legal rights and as such forget about playing games about not going
to respond to my correspondence because you have the onus to provide me with appropriate "terms and
conditions"! >. >
Technically I am a iiNet customer by ther mere fact of having purchased the connection-kit and having
requested broadband connection, albeit the application is deemed by iiNet as pending, but I doubt you may
even comprehend this also. >. >Hence, make sure the matter is placed in the hands of the Board of Directors
so they can take immediate and urgen appropriate action to deal with this very serious matter. >. >
Mr. G. H. Schorel-Hlavka >. >1-8-2009 > > >----Original Message----- >From: Peter - iiNet Provisioning [mailto:peter.l@corporate.iinet.net.au] >Sent:
Friday, July 31, 2009 06:53 PM >To: INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com >Subject: AND
FURTHER - Re: Naked DSL application delay (ref: 61716565) > >
Dear Sir, Thank you for your further emails. If you have any further complaints or concerns, I would suggest
that you speak with the relevant political, police, or industry body as appropriate. As you are not currently an
iiNet customer, you have no obligations to us under any of our Terms and Conditions, and vice versa. You
are also under no obligations to sign up for any of our products if you do not agree to the terms - all of which
are publicly available. iiNet will not communicate further on this matter without your use of an appropriate
intermediary or mediatory body. Kind Regards, Peter -- Senior Customer Service Representative iiNet
Provisioning Team >
FURTHER TO MY PREVIOUS EMAIL; >
QUOTE >Regardless of the notification on the website, iiNet always ensures that every request received from
the Police meets the relevant legal requirements. Any information regarding this matter on our website, and
any information in our Terms and Conditions, will always by superseded by federal Telecommunications
Law where there is a conflict. As such, the page you refer to is there mostly for the sake of law enforcement
bodies, to let them know who to contact in the event of such a request. >
END QUOTE >
As iiNet advised me that the terms of contract between iiNet and myself were stated on its website and I was
not aware that the police were a party to the contractual terms then why put it on the website as a term of
condition if it applies to the police who may never ever be aware that I entered into a contract with iiNet.
As such it must be deemed sheer and utter nonsense to claim ?
As such, the page you refer to is there mostly for the sake of law enforcement bodies, to let them know who
to contact in the event of such a request.? Because if it was for the purpose of the police then it should not
have been part of term and conditions relating to myself..
Further, it is in my view also utter and sheer nonsense to argue that it refers to the police because the police
isn?t going to bother to check contractual details b! etween m yself (or for that anyone else) and iiNet but
merely will make their request and then iiNet will be having the onus to decide if it can release confidential
details or not..
Now, we have had people convicted in courts on basis of, as I understand it to be, intercepted confidential
details of private telecommunication. If any of it was released by iiNet to the police in an
unconstitutional/illegal manner then it could result that those convictions may end up having to be set aside.
It may at the time of the court cases not have been known that iiNet or other telecommunication company
might be unconstitutionally/unlawfully disclosing confidential details..
As I previously pointed out the federal legislation limited disclosure to, so to say,a life and death matter
whereas my reading of the information stated at your website, besides referring to non-existing legislation,
refers to the police merely having to request for confidential details and be provided this..
As such, it is not the legislation that is the issue but the fact that iiNet by its statement as term and condition
is as I view it deceiving potential customers that they must allow disclosure based upon federal law even so
no su! ch feder al law, as referred to, existed, at least when I checked it, other then in a so to say life and
death issue..
As such, iiNet may in the past have disclosed to police or other so called law enforcement authorities
confidential details unconstitutionally/unlawfully.
One can not hold that iiNet has its conditions and then would refuse to comply with the very conditions it
insisted upon potential customers to accept..
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The fact that iiNet insisted those terms and conditions were to be accepted and was all along by perhaps
hundreds of thousands of its customers, who were unaware of the deception by iinNet purported upon them in
that regard by showing false and misleading information and/or conditions cannot be discounted that
somehow iiNet then knew it was wrong and did refuse information to the police, as if it had done s! o it wou
ld never have persisted in the deceptive conditions to be remaining part of terms and conditions..
Lets make ity very clear the police would not bother to check your website as to terms of conditions how to
make their application and as such I view your claim ?
As such, the page you refer to is there mostly for the sake of law enforcement bodies, to let them know who
to contact in the event of such a request.? Only adds to what I view a gross deception by iiNet..
When I purchased my connection kit there were no such terms as purported by iiNet displayed on the
package and again when I checked certain legal provisions claimed by iiNet as part of its terms and
conditions I found it non-existing..
I have no doubt that perhaps hundreds of not thousands of lawyers may have signed up with iiNet not
bothering to check the validity of the terms of conditions iiNet had on its website. Still the fact that a person
obtains a law decree doesn?t mean the person by this obtained intelligence. As such the fact that so many
lawyers were foolish enough or stupid enough to jeopardize the security of their clients to me is no excuse for
me then to follow suit.. >
The Commonwealth of Australia is not a country or a continent but is a ?POLITICAL UNION? between the
colonies (now states) and as such there is a separation of powers between the States and the Commonwealth.
Therefore, iiNet ought to do wise to make sure it understands the division of powers and how the constitution
applies and so any legislation enacted within constitutional powers..
For example when you refer to ?police? are you referring to the Australian Federal Police? or to the state
police?
If it is to the State police which police force are you referring to? As a resident in Victoria are you trying to
claim that say the NSW police could get information about my confidential communications merely by
asking iiNet. Same say with the Queensland police?.You see many if not most lawyers wouldn?t have a clue
about this because they don?t teach things like that at law-sc! hools..W e have crime labs who may work for
the police but are not the ?police? as such and so are you trying to imply they too merely can request for
information and you disclose it?.As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I take on governments and as indicated in my
previous email at times assist people in their litigation to get them out of the hell hole lawyers (including
judges) created to an innocent person and I would not want that the police or others were to obtain
confidential details of cases I am assisting with so they can undermine my pursue of JUSTICE..
The Framers of the Constitution in fact opposed telec0ommunication to be in private hands as like in the
USA because they were concerned as to the problems existing then already in the USA and so stipulated that
telecommunication was to be under federal authority.
Well, we saw that unconstitutionally the federal government, without referendum to approve this, sold off it?s
telecommunication and I view iiNet is now a clear example of the dangers associate with a private company
who has its customers tied to some contract with ?terms and conditions? that are ill conceived and as I
exposed referrin! g to non existing legislative provisions, etc..
Our trademark is;.MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL.(Our name is our motto!).
Again, the onus is upon iiNet to explain its position and avoid bringing up other nonsense such as quoted
above..
I promises that I will pursue to make as many people aware of checking their terms and conditions and to
check if any of their confidential details were disclosed without their knowledge and/or authority..
Do understand that if you obtained customers to agree with ?terms and conditions? by false and/or
misleading claims that this was required by legislation then I view you have no excuse if you unlawfully
disclosed confidential details because the customer cannot be held to ?terms and conditions? that were
the product of deception..
In my view iiNet had an obligation to ensure that its ?terms and conditions? were reflecting the precise lega! l
requir ements as they exist from time to time and any deceptive claims otherwise cannot be excused..While I
made my complaints to iiNet I for one wonder how may other persons in the meantime did join up without
iiNet having made clear that the ?terms and conditions? were incorrectly stated?.
Consider also was it not for that I made a formal complaint then likely iiNet would still not be dealing with its
improper details on its website..
And, if you are going to get lawyers involved to check the ?terms and conditions? do try to get lawyers who
are constitutionalist and not those who so to say got their decrees for free with purchasing a packet of
margarine.
Plenty of times I get the response from lawyers they ?never knew? about certain constitutional application
and that just underlines that getting lawyers involved doesn?t mean you are going to resolve the problems as
it would be a bit like the blind leading the blind, regardless what certificates they may hold..
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Still, I purchased a connection kit and hold that by this there was a contract to provide me with the service if I
desired to do so and I view currently iiNet without reasonable and/or prop! er excus e denies me the services
and it is well overdue that iiNet deal with how to resolve this to MY SATISFACTION!.
It is iiNet who pursued specific ?terms and conditions? and I successfully challenge iiNet as to certain parts
of the ?terms and conditions? being in defiance of my constitutional and other legal rights and the onus is
therefore upon iiNet to resolve this and certainly not for me to go to my Member of Parliament because this is
essentially a commercial issue of a ?contract? iiNet is bound to honour within the provisions of constitutional
and other legal provisions and so far it appears to me it failed to do so..
Mr. G. H. Schorel-Hlavka.30-7-2009 >----Original Message----- >
From: Peter - iiNet Provisioning [mailto:peter.l@corporate.iinet.net.au] >
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 01:30 PM >To: INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com >Subject:
Re: Naked DSL appli! cation d elay (ref: 61716565) > >
Dear Sir, Thankyou for your email. Regardless of the notification on the website, iiNet always ensures that
every request received from the Police meets the relevant legal requirements. Any information regarding this
matter on our website, and any information in our Terms and Conditions, will always by superseded by
federal Telecommunications Law where there is a conflict. As such, the page you refer to is there mostly for
the sake of law enforcement bodies, to let them know who to contact in the event of such a request. If you
have any concerns regarding the provisions in the Telecommunications Acts regarding Police powers, this
would be a question for your local member of parliament. Your application remains withdrawn, and no
further action will be taken on our part unless you make new request via our Sales team or online signup
form. Kind Regards,
Peter -- Senior Customer Service Representative iiNet Provisioning Team >
Sir/Madam, >
I was advised to go to the website to read the terms and conditions and that I did and made my
complaints. No good to tell me (after I made my comp[laint) that it is going to change because all people
who in the meantime are still signing up are unaware of this. >. >Do understand that your obligation is to
ensure that your website is up to date when you direct a person to go to that website. >. >
Further, law enforcement agencies are far too often unlawfully getting information and that is to me of a
concern, as I pointed out in my complaints that the website details were incorrect. >. >
As such, changing the website details but still providing unlawfully details to law enforcement agencies isn't
going to do it! >. >
In my view IINet failed to ensure that details were correctly published in the first place and has an obligation
to clarify itself about this matters. Perhaps ACCC might be interested to discover how many people signed up
with iiNet while it displayed incorrect details as terms and conditions! >. > >
Do understand that when you ask people to ! accept y our displayed t! erms and conditions that is entering
into a legally binding contract and if therefore you display incorrect details then you could be deemed to have
mislead people. > >. >
In my view there is no excuse of any delay and do provide me with the relevant legislative changes you rely
upon and when it was enacted so we all can see what kind of time delays we are talking about that you still
had to change your website details! >. >
Also, how many times did iiNet release information to what might be deemed "law enforcement" agencies
where in fact it might not have been lawful at all? >. >
The onus was upon iiNet to ensure that at all material times its website details are up to date with legislative
changes and where it failed to do so then this may have far more severe implications then what you may
appear to understand and comprehend. >. >
Mr G. H. Schorel-Hlavka >. >21-7-2009 >. > > > >----Original Message----- >From: support@iinet.net.au [mailto:support@iinet.net.au] >Sent: Thursday, July 16,
2009 03:49 PM >
To: INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com >
Subject: Re: Naked DSL application delay (ref: 61716565) > >Dear sir, Thankyou for your concerns. Please
note that Section 282 of the Telecommunications Act was superseded by more recent legislation. iiNet's
compliance and cooperation with law enforcement officers is done so in compliance with Section 178 of
the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Amendment Act 2007, and our website is in the
process of being updated to reflect this. Your application has currently been withdrawn. Please contact us
on 13 22 58 if you would like to process a new application. Kind Regards,
Peter -- Senior Customer Service Representative iiNet Provisioning Team >
Please note that the application must be kept on hold because of various complications that are existing. >. >
For example Testra has not as yet even been able to transfer my phone system to its system. More over
however there are serious issues regarding what you have on your website as conditions and as ! a CONSTI
TUTIONALIST and a! uthor of books in the INSPECTOR-RIKATI series on
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certain constitutional and other legal issues I have formally filed a complaint with the Prime Minister Kevin
Rudd regarding what I consider being if not unconstitutional then inappropriate conditions upon prospective
customers/customers. >. >
For example your website refers to a what appears to be a non existing Section 282! your website refers
to section 287 which doesn;'t support at all the claims you state in your website and as such it appears
to me that iiNet is deceiving customers and likely may unlawfully release details/information to so
called lawenforcement agencies without lawful authority. >. >
I would therefore urge that those who are directors of iiNet do bother to consider my writings and take
immediate and appropriate action before their failure to do so could cause severe damages to its company. >.
>
As author of books in the INSPECTOR-RIKATI series on certainb constitutional
and other legal issues I intend to place the issues also before my readers and your responses so they can
consider for themselves how yo responded ! and if t his could be considered appropriate in the circumstances.
>. >It must be obvious that I do not accept the website outlined conditions and as such iiNet cannot disregard
this but must appropriately address the issues. And as it appears to be issues that may relate to all its
customers then iiNet in my view has an obligation to act urgently to address the issues raised by me. >. >In
any event in the meantime the application is on hold as legally iiNet cannot proceed with it within the current
circumstances. >. > Mr. G. H. Schorel-Hlavka >-----Original Message----- >From: Provisioning Team
[mailto:support@iinet.net.au] >Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 02:10 AM >To: schorel-hlavka@schorelhlavka.com >Cc: schorel-hlavka@iinet.net.au >Subject: Naked DSL application delay (ref: 61716565) >
>Customer Reference Number: 220008651 Hello Mr Schorel-Hlavka, Just a quick e! mail to let you know
that we are still processing! your Na ked DSL application, and are currently working through an issue. This is
most likely a qualification fault, and we would like to apologise for any inconvenience it may cause. We will
contact you shortly if we cannot resolve this issue; otherwise your application will proceed as normal. We'll
do everything we can to ensure your service is ready in the shortest period possible, and appreciate your
patience. If you have any questions, or for more information regarding the delay, please reply to this email or
call us on 13 22 58. Kind regards, The Provisioning Team support@iinet.net.au 13 22 58
END QUOTE email communication with iiNet
weare@citizensnotsuspects.org.au
QUOTE
[Citizens, Not Suspects] Data Retention Vote This Week: Take Action Now
Jim
Mar 16 at 2:09 PM
To
----- Original Message ----From: Citizens, Not Suspects
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: [Citizens, Not Suspects] Data Retention Vote This Week: Take Action Now
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Data Retention Vote This Week: ACT NOW!
The Government's proposed data retention scheme is back up for debate this week. Attorney-General Brandis
is anxious to see the scheme rushed through Parliament as quickly as possible.
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This is despite the government having yet to produce their amendments to address the recommendations of
the Intelligence & Security Committee.
The government's indecent haste also ignores a new inquiry by the Intelligence & Security Committee into
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the effect of this legislation on journalists and their sources. That new inquiry is due to report back in early
June.
Not to mention the fact that we still don't know how much it will cost, nor have we even seen the final set of
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data to be retained!
And yet, the government is still trying to ram this bill through Parliament, even though they might have to
turn around and amend it almost immediately.
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If this bill does not pass the Senate by Thursday week (26th March), the next opportunity for the
Senate to vote on it will be the 15th June, after this new inquiry has reported.
If we can get Labor to step up and join the Greens and cross-bench Senators then the bill will not be
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rushed through the Senate.
There is significant disquiet within the Labor caucus about this bill, and Labor MPs and Senators need
to hear your concerns now to help them find the courage to stand up and oppose it.
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THIS BILL WILL NOT PASS THE SENATE WITHOUT LABOR'S SUPPORT.
Will you make the call to your Labor MP or senator, and ask them to vote against Mr Brandis' data
retention scheme, or at least to oppose it being rammed through the Senate this month?
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See our Take Action page for help in contacting your MP and Senators.
National Day of Action: Monday 23rd March
Also, please note that a national day of action is being planned for next Monday, 23rd March. We'll keep you
up to date on that, but in the meantime, make sure you get your Citizens, Not Suspects t-shirt.
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Join EFA
EFA has been Australia's leading voice for digital rights since 1994. We need your support now as much as
ever. Please JOIN TODAY.
Thanks for your support. Together we can defeat this unnecessary and disproportionate legislation.
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Copyright 2015 Electronic Frontiers Australia
You are receiving this email because you signed up to the newsletter at www.citizensnotsuspects.org.au or
because you signed our petition.
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Our mailing address is:

Electronic Frontiers Australia
GPO Box 1235
Canberra, ACT 2601
40
Australia
END QUOTE
Again, I view that DATA RETENTION would be unconstitutional because it would in fact
deny me my constitutional rights of POLITICAL LIBERTY, etc.
.
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I will give below also some examples about POLITICAL LIBERTY where the issue can bed
of a purported religion of Islam, when in fact it is an undercover military kind of conduct as
well as governance, etc. Those who are aware that I publish books as author in the
INSPECTOR-RIKATI series on certain constitutional and other legal issues must be able to
communicate with me without being subjected to the (unconstitutional) Racial Discrimination
Act provisions. It is their constitutional right of POLITICAL LIBERTY to do so! And we are
too well aware how rotten Menzies was to setup and have ASIO running as his private army
against political opponents and we do not desire it to be able to ac cess DATA RETENTION
details as an alleged law enforcement agency, where in my view it is nothing but an terrorist
organisation that blatantly disregard a citizens constitutional rights. Robert Menzies proved how
he disregarded constitutional rights of political opponents and we can simply not accept nor
permit the same to continue.
.
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Now I will quote something about Mosque and what its purposes are:
http://www.wernercairns.com/2015/03/why-oppose-building-of-mosque.html
QUOTE
Monday, March 16, 2015
Why Oppose the Building of a Mosque?
Well, yes, that is a very good question, and Harry Richardson, a long-time student of Islam and author of the
best seller, "The Story of Mohammed - Islam Unveiled' will answer it for you. This is an interesting insight
and should be read by every non Muslim and true blue Australian. It is not only thought provoking, but is
also very worrisome. Here is a link to the above mentioned book. Werner
***
Why Oppose the Building of a Mosque?
By Harry Richardson
In local councils across Australia, and indeed most of the Western World, applications are pending for the
building of new Mosques. Until recently, these applications would have been approved with little more than a
rubber stamp and a few suggestions as to local planning.
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Today however, things have changed. Mosque applications have become rallying points for community anger
and hostility. Demonstrations and campaigns are becoming commonplace. There appears, in each of these
disputes, a three way split with the bewildered councillors stuck squarely in the middle. On the 'yes' side, we
naturally have the Muslims who have purchased the land and want to build the mosque. On the 'no' side is a
group of strident residents and activists who are implacably opposed to it.
Then, also on the 'yes' side are those who sympathise with the Muslims who, as they see it, simply want to
build a place of worship and should have the right to do so in a free society. For convenience, I will refer to
this group as the allies. In the main, the allies seem to view the protesters as uncultured rabble, motivated by
racism and hatred of anything alien to their own small minded world. They consider them to be uneducated
and acting from ignorance. They reason that if these protesters understood more of the ways of other cultures
they would discover them harmless. They believe these protesters might then discover aspects of this culture
(such as tolerance, for instance) from which they could in fact learn.
On the surface, this would seem a very reasonable stance for the allies to take, but as we start to dig a little
deeper, we find that things are not quite what they seem. For a start, we soon find that the allies themselves
have no knowledge of Islam whatsoever. What they do know has been successfully sold to them by Islamic
spokespersons. They do not take the time or make the effort to search beyond the Islamic line. Ironically,
many of the protesters have actually taken the time to educate themselves about Islam from the authentic
Islamic sources and contemporary teachings. Here are some of the reasons why we find many of these
teachings to be deeply troubling.
What is a mosque?
It is vitally important to understand what a mosque represents in Islam. A mosque is not like a church or a
temple, it is much more than a place for Muslims to simply worship their God (Allah). Mosques are
modelled on the first mosque established by Mohammed in Medina which was a seat of government, a
command centre, a court, a military training centre and an arms depot. Mosque leaders today raise
religious decrees, enforce Islamic doctrine, monitor conduct, punish transgressors and command actions
including requirements to conduct Jihad.
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A mosque is much more than a church. In light of this, we need to answer these two simple questions:1) Why
are so many mosques being built? 2) Why do mosques have capacities much greater than the local Muslim
communities could fill?
5
Turkey.
The Prime Minister of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdoan, understood the military nature of a mosque when he
stated: A mosque is our barracks, the domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets and the faithful are
our soldiers."
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Islams founder, the Prophet Mohammed, was not just a religious leader but a political and military one too.
He raised armies and fought and killed people until he was the King of the whole of Arabia. The religion of
Islam is entirely based on the example and teachings of Mohammed. Unlike any other major religion
therefore, Islam is also a political and military force.
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The Influence of the House of Saud.

Mohammed was the guardian of Islam in the seventh century. Today that responsibility rests with the Saudi
Royal Family or the House of Saud. The two holiest Islamic sites in Mecca and Medina are under its
control.The late king, Fahd bin Abdul Aziz, understood this when he wrote The efforts of the servant of the
two Holy Places support the Muslim Minorities.The Institute of Muslim Minority Affairs (IMMA) is the
vehicle which the late king created to establish the Islamic World Caliphate. It is Saudi Foreign Policy and
Jurisprudence from the Saudi Ministry of Religious Affairs.
In the words of King Fahd, mosques, educational centres and Islamic bodies like the Islamic Society of North
America (ISNA) and Muslim Students Association (MSA) are all geared towards hindering Muslim
assimilation into non-Muslim nations so they can act as a fifth column to bring victory to Islam. In 1965
during the pilgrimage or Hajj, the World Association of Muslim Youth or WAMY was created to work
toward this end and for the non-Muslim world; IMMA or the Institute of Muslim Minority Affairs was born.
WAMY and IMMA were a collaboration of the Wahhabist and Muslim Brotherhood led by: 1) Said
Ramadan, the son-in-law of the Muslim Brotherhood founder and, 2) Abdullah Omar Naseef, a wealthy,
suspected Al-Qaeda financier.
The House of Saud and the funding of terrorism.
In May 2008, Robert Spencers website Jihad Watch reported that the Saudis had spent over $US100
billion on this project over the three previous decades.These funds were used to build mosques to fund the
payroll of Imams and to build Islamic schools. They were also apparently intended to corrupt the education
system through the funding of universities and the rewriting of school text books to favour Islam while
denigrating Christianity and Western achievements. According to this article, the late king Fahd bin Abd al
Aziz and his family had personally donated hundreds of millions of dollars to groups like Hamas and AlQaeda. Prince Salman, a full brother of King Fahd controlled the International Islamic Relief Organization or
IIMO and directly donated to Hamas. Prince Sultan bin Abd al-Aziz was a defendant in the September 11
trials and admitted to donating $US4 million to terrorist organisations like IIMO and WAMY.
Mosque building in Australia.
Now we can answer our questions. Question: Why are so many mosques being built? Answer: Muslims
currently have over 370 mosques in Australia which, per capita, is more than six times the number of
Buddhist and Hindu temples. This could well be because the mosque is intended as a beachhead for Islam, a
place to plan Jihad and to implement Sharia law. Question: Why do mosques have capacities that cater for
far greater numbers than those in local Muslim communities? Answer: The mosque is deliberately built to
dominate the neighbourhood to show the supremacy of Islam over Christianity and all other faiths.
Mosque teachings in Australia.
What is taught in the mosque comes directly from the Quran, the Hadith and Sira, and the 'Reliance of the
Traveller', which is the Manual of Islamic Law. The Manual of Islamic Law teaches in Law O9.0 that it is a
communal obligation for Muslims to wage Jihad to establish Islam as the religion and the law. In the Hadith
of Muslim, book 41 No. 6985, Muslims are told to slaughter the Jews. There are many examples of these
teachings being delivered in mosques which give cause for alarm.
1. On April 27 in the Preston mosque in Melbourne, an audio tape exists of brother Baha delivering a
speech calling on Muslims to engage in Jihad against Australians (in line with Islamic Law O9.0)
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2. Sheik Feiz Mohammed who teaches at a mosque in Auburn in Western Sydney, is on video calling for the
mass slaughter of all Jews, while making pig noises. (This is perhaps inspired by?) the Hadith of Muslim
book 41 No. 6985)
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3. Sheik Hilaly of the Lakemba mosque, a former Grand Mufti of Australia, defended the rape of
women who were not covered in acceptable Islamic dress. There is now evidence of a rape epidemic in
Europe by Muslims because Islamic Sharia law does not penalise a Muslim for raping a non Muslim
woman.
What must be done?
The conundrum for Law-makers in the West is that a mosque operates under the protection of religious
freedom. This is unacceptable because a mosque is not just a religion, but also political centre and a
place where legal rulings are made. Some of these rulings breach Australian law and ironically also call
for the restriction of religious freedoms for all non-Muslims. Our politicians, law-makers, law
enforcement officers and security agencies need to acquaint themselves with the teachings within mosques
which, after all, are preaching their prophets Sharia law which is largely incompatible with Australian law.
Law-makers and law-enforcers must now turn their minds toward recognizing Islam as a political entity and
remove the current protections Islam receives as a religion. Failure to do this is likely to end in serious
political and societal consequences in the future.
***
My thought for today. Being defeated is only a temporary condition; giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn vos Savant.
****
How to post a comment.
END QUOTE
QUOTE
Fw: The Lights Are Going Out In Europe
People
Bev Pattenden
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Today at 9:11 AM
QWire
Professor Ian Plimer
Stephanie Forrest
To
Photos
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image001.jpg
Please read the speech below by Geert Wilders, another truth speaker who was persecuted by ignorant
protestors while visiting
Australia a few years ago, and more recently Dr. Sherri Tennpenny who had to cancel her trip to Australia to
tell the full story of the dangers of vaccination.
http://theconversation.com/whos-afraid-of-geert-wilders-populism-and-the-politics-of-hate-12326
There was continual war between Islam and the Papacy for 9 centuries between 7th and 16th century.
Both religions followed the ideology of convert or die. It appears that the Reformation, where Martin
Luther broke free from the Papacy and Henry Vlll did the same, that the crusades ceased. People took back
their freedom of religion and their right to worship according to their conscience, which is now taken for
granted by those who have no knowledge of history.
Muslims need their own Reformation to break free from their totalitarian ideology.
Some people say that religion is the cause of all wars, but I make mention of Stalin, Idi Amin, and many
others where there was no
religion or no god involved and the results were even worse.
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Wars are always started by those who want control of others and cannot tolerate freedom.
It appears that we are just about to lose 500 years of freedom, if we do not make a stand.
Bev Pattenden.
5
From: Alan
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:27 PM
To:
Subject: FW: The Lights Are Going Out In Europe
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---------- Forwarded message ---------Subject: The Lights Are Going Out In Europe
Warren
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(IMMAGE NOT REPRODUCED)
The Lights Are
Going Out All Over Europe
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Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament

In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: "Who lost Europe?"
Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands , at the Four Seasons,
New York , introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in
Jerusalem.
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Dear Friends,
Thank you very much for inviting me. I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world.
There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic.
We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to
the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as
the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.
First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To
close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem .
The Europe you know is changing.
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You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your
tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim massmigration.
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All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous
people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the
world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of
children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street
corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic
activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and
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they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of
increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.
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There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe With larger congregations than there are in
churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in
the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in
Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring
of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.
In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also
mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.
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Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam
gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'.
Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.
In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and
Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught
because of Muslim sensitivity.
In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France
are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by
Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.
Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War
II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever
with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
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A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a
staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis
has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.
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Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a
strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of
French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French
Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of
British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And
this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.
The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim
majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey .
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Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for
example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the
low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not
come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore,
they are settlers.
Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native
people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote
not to be ignored.
The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example
to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi
and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass
murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought
in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself
slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is
bad.
Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in
its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of
every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible
with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is Sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything,
compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.
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Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he
compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and
sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel .
First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz .
Second because it is a democracy. And third because Israel is our first line of defense.
This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing
the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon
, and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.
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The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply
receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism
would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who
send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and
dream, unaware of the dangers looming.
Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim
minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would
not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the
contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and
rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not
mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle
for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label
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any and all critics of Islam as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands , 60 percent
of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World
War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist
attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you
can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland,
an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies,
enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the
heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem
Dear friends, Liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was
offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe ,
American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish.
My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard
won liberty to Europe 's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with
mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We
simply do not have the right to do so.
We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we
know.
20
Please take the time to read and understand what is written here, please send it to every free person that you
know - it is so very important.
25
30
35
The information in this electronic mail message is the sender's confidential business and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this internet electronic mail message by
anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or
malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission.
By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking
protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. The sender's company is not liable for any loss
or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
Nothing in this email shall be deemed to create a binding contract to purchase/sell real estate. The sender of
this email does not have the authority to bind a buyer or seller to a contract via written or verbal
communications including, but not limited to, email communications.
END QUOTE
40
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine31700894?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=inxmail_newsletter&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine_news__&ns_link
name=na&ns_fee=0
QUOTE
3 March 2015 Last updated at 01:18
The spy who came in from al-Qaeda
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(Image not included)
Continue reading the main story
In today's Magazine
p18
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Striking gold with a hoard of lost property
Viewpoint: Why I loved Nemtsov
Delhi rapist says victim shouldn't have fought back
What people see instead of darkness

Aimen Dean is a founder member of al-Qaeda, who changed tack in 1998 and became a spy for Britain's
security and intelligence services, MI5 and MI6. Interviewed by Peter Marshall, he describes his years
working in Afghanistan and London as one of the West's most valuable assets in the fight against militant
Islam.
Bosnia
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15
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Dean was brought up in Saudi Arabia, where opposition to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s
made military jihad a noble concept. He was a teenager when Yugoslavia splintered, and Bosnian Muslims
found themselves in mortal danger from Serb nationalists. He and a friend, Khalid al-Hajj - later to become
the leader of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia - set off to become mujahideen.
I would say it was the most eye-opening experience I ever had. I was a bookish nerd from Saudi Arabia just
weeks ago and then suddenly I find myself prancing up on the mountains of Bosnia holding an AK-47 feeling
a sense of immense empowerment - and the feeling that I was participating in writing history rather than just
watching history on the side.
And also at the same time, being in the military training camps, receiving knowledge that I never thought in a
thousand years I would be receiving about warfare and war tactics and military manoeuvres, and to be
receiving it alongside people from many different nationalities, with the one common factor among them that
they were all Muslims. And they were all there in order to participate in the jihad in defence of the Bosnian
population, was in itself also an overwhelming experience.
Q: You weren't afraid?
25
A: Between you and me, I think at the beginning I was afraid of the unknown rather than afraid of the fact
that I'm going into, embarking on a journey that might end up with all of us being killed actually.
Q: You didn't fear death?
A: I would be lying if I say no I didn't fear death but I started to come to peace with the idea that yes, I am
entering Bosnia. Most likely I will never come out of it.
Q: Did you want martyrdom, did you want to die?
30
A: Yes.
Jihad school
35
By the end of the Bosnian conflict I started to notice something else within my comrades. Those who
survived started to adopt a rather more anti-Western, anti-globalisation feeling that the global community
were conspiring against the Muslims in Bosnia because they were turning the tide of the war in their favour so they wanted to end the war there and then before they score any more victories.
Continue reading the main story
Find out more
(image not included)

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This is an edited version of Peter Marshall's interview with Aimen Dean, which was broadcast on The Spy
Who Came in from al-Qaeda, on BBC Radio 4 at 09:00 GMT on 3 March. You can catch up via the BBC
iPlayer Radio.
Catch up with Peter Marshall's interview with Aimen Dean on Islamic State - an edition of The Report
broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in January 2015.
At least that's the perception. And with that perception, I think they started to feel that the West is
fighting Islam as a religion and that led to further radicalisation that made it easy for them to make
the transformation from being mujahideen into being jihad operatives.
10
Bosnia was a school in which many talented leaders of al-Qaeda were born. Khalid Sheikh Mohamed
[accused of being the architect of the 9/11 attacks] was one of those people who were in Bosnia.
The impression I had at that time, was that he was there in Bosnia in order to spot talent, let's put it this way,
in order to you know scout for talents who will be useful for the later struggle.
15
I remember that one of the things he said, and it was in a wedding where we were seated next to each other
basically, and one of the things he said, he said, "Well, the Bosnian war seems to be ending here, that you
know the end is in sight but what will happen after the war? The question is are we going to roam the globe
from one hopeless battle to another trying to save a Muslim population until someone else, and then someone
else come and reap the reward?"
20
In other words, there will be a government that is secular and doesn't rule by the rules of Sharia. He says that
this cycle need to end and that we have to think about another front where we can serve Islam and basically
resurrect the spirit of jihad within the Muslim world. I think that little speech was the first indication that
things are moving from jihad being an instrument to defend Muslim populations on the frontiers to an
instrument to bring down regimes and to fight a terror war against the US interests in the region.
Q: To become terrorists rather than soldiers?
A: Absolutely.
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Media player help
Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Aimen Dean' said he was going public to confront jihadists
Joining al-Qaeda
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I was invited to Kandahar to give the allegiance basically and as with everyone who give allegiance Osama
bin Laden will give you know a one-to-one meeting basically with those who are joining and then he
welcomed me into the fold. He basically said that there will be many, many years of difficulties and hardship,
and that the cause of jihad is not going to start with him or end with him.
Q: You swore an oath?
35
A: Yes.
Q: What was the oath?
A: "I give you an allegiance to fight alongside you in good times and in bad times and to fight the jihad
against the enemies of god and to obey my commanders."
Q: What were you doing when you were swearing the oath? Do you stand, do you kneel?
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A: You sit next to him on the floor basically and you know you have your hand on a copy of the Koran and
you say it. Almost knees touching each other basically.
Q: And this is a moving moment presumably?
A: Yes, although like you know I have to say looking back at it basically, I felt you know the same dread of
the unknown that I felt before I went to Bosnia.
Q: You knew it was a big leap you were taking?
A: Yes.
10
Aimen Dean as a child

Afghanistan
At home in Saudi Arabia Aimen Dean had been a Muslim theological prodigy. In Afghanistan it was his
responsibility to train al-Qaeda recruits - many from Yemen - in the basics of Islamic theology and history
and the essentials of religious practice. This opened his eyes to the jihadists' different motivations.
15
There is no single process of radicalisation. Some people, it took them years to be convinced of coming
to the jihad and some people it took them minutes. Some people were studying in religious seminaries they're a minority by the way - and then decided to come and some people basically just came straight
out of a night club you know while he was consuming alcohol basically to come and seek redemption
there in the jihadist world.
20
So you know you see immediately that you know there isn't one single classical journey there, that there are
so many journeys.
Q: But they all want martyrdom?
25
A: They all want martyrdom and redemption and to various degrees. Some people will come to you and say
you know I'm really tired, I want to be martyred as soon as possible. And some people will come to you and
say I want to be martyred but not before I give the enemies of god hell on this earth. I want to live for as long
as possible to give them as much hell as possible and then taken out by them.
Q: So some, some are basically suicidal to begin with, and others just have blood lust?
A: Yes.
Doubts
30
35
Dean was at a training camp in Afghanistan when the bombings of the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es
Salaam took place in 1998. He was concerned to learn that as well as the 12 American casualties, 240 or
more local people died, and 5,000 were wounded.
I think that is when the horror of it started to sink in. And this is when I realised that if this is the opening
salvo of this war, where is the next target? Argentina, South Africa, Mozambique? Are we going to fight
Americans in Africa in order to expel them from the Middle East, from the Arabian peninsula? It just didn't
make sense.
And as a theologian, that's when I started to have doubts about the legality of the whole thing. So I started to
ask questions. I went, I remember, to Abdullah al Mohaja, who was the de facto mufti of al- Qaeda I said,
"It's not that I have doubts or anything but can you please enlighten me about the religious justifications for
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attacking an embassy belonging to the enemy, yes, but at the same time the fact that it's surrounded by
potentially huge collateral damage?"
And he said to me, "Well look, there is a fatwa issued in the 13th Century AD throughout the Muslim
world, which legitimises attacking an enemy even if it means there are civilian deaths because the
enemy is using them as a human shield." And he said, "This fatwa is comprehensive, it gives us
justification and there is no doubt about the legality of what we have done."
10
15
Collateral damage: Rescuing casualties of the Nairobi embassy bombing

So I decided to go and look for myself, and this is when I received a big shock. The fatwas were issued
in response to questions sent by Muslim cities in Central Asia, Tashkent, Samarkand, Bukhara, asking
this particular question: "Look, the Mongols are invading. Every time they sack a city, they take a
segment of the population from that city, a thousand or two or three, and make them push the siege
towers towards the walls of the next city. So do we shoot at our fellow Muslims, who are against their
wills pushing the siege towers into the walls of our city, or not?"
And then the fatwa came: "Yes, this is a case where the Mongols are using civilian Muslims as human
shields in order to achieve a military aim and if you don't shoot at them, you will end up being killed
yourself if the attacks succeed."
20
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Now when I learned of this, I was thinking: "OK, how do I reconcile this fatwa which applies to a life-anddeath situation, regarding a vicious enemy using people as human shields to sack another place and to kill
every man, woman and child in that city, with what happened really in Nairobi and Tanzania?" There is no
resemblance here.
Q: And this fatwa based on siege towers from 800 years ago, that's what's used to justify all acts of
jihadi terrorism?
A: That would result in civilian casualties, yes.
Q: So it's important?
A: It is important but you know I'm not going to say it has shaky foundations. It has no foundations at all. It's
basically castle of sand in the air.
30
Q: It's nonsense?
A: Absolutely, and two months down the line I decided that it's no longer for me and that I wanted to leave.
Becoming a spy
35
Still barely out of his teens, and deeply troubled, Dean says he went to the Gulf for medical treatment, having
privately decided not to return. Instead, he found himself in the hands of MI6. In 11 days, he says, he was
turned. After four years and two months as a jihadi, he landed in London on 16 December 1998, and the
debriefing began.
I think seven months of debriefings, that was more or less helping them put together a better picture of these
organisations and the groups and who are the influential people within them.
Q: Because you knew Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, Abu Zubeida. You knew everybody.
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A: Yes Seven months into the debriefings, that's when the suggestion [came]: "What about you going back
to Afghanistan and doing some more work for us?" And my answer was unequivocally, "Yes." I didn't have
any qualm with that at all.
Q: What did you do?
10
A: Passing back information, that's what my primary objective was, to collect as much information as
possible - and that wasn't an easy task because you have to rely entirely on your memory. You can't write
anything. Everything has to be stored in the mind, nowhere else Whatever moral misgivings I had, I have
my ex-comrades to thank for driving those moral misgivings away because the more I see what they were
planning - for example, I was there basically when al-Qaeda was constructing their first workable chemical
device and talking about this with such glee and such deep psychopathic satisfaction - that is when you say
to yourself, "Why do I have any moral misgivings about spying on you guys?" Whatever they are doing is
justifying whatever you are doing.
Q: You had to play along with them obviously?
A: Of course. I was still preaching, I was still stating how committed I am to the cause.
15
Q: That must be tricky, though, because in some ways because you're there preaching, you're again giving
theological justification for some of the bad things that you know that they're up to.
A: Yes, but at the end of the day if you want to catch rats, you have to go into the sewage system basically
and get dirty yourself.
Q: So you were in Afghanistan and you were coming back and forth to the UK as well.
20
A: Yes.
Q: But al- Qaeda thought they were sending you back to the UK presumably?
A: Yes. I think that's the beauty of it.
Q: So they think you're working for them?
A: Yes.
25
Q: When you're actually working for the West?

A: Absolutely.
Aimen Dean in Mecca
Spying in London
30
While in the UK Dean would be watching and gathering information on people like Babar Ahmed, a British
man who admitted providing material support to terrorists, and Abu Hamza, convicted in the US earlier this
year of supporting terrorism, and Abu Qatada, who was cleared of terrorism charges by a court in Jordan
last autumn after a long legal battle to extradite him from the UK. Dean kept an eye on them and others while
preaching in mosques and Islamic societies.
35
Q: The difficulty is though that if you're there under cover, welcomed there as an al-Qaeda man, you have to
keep up this pretence by talking to people at the mosque, you have to encourage them to join the jihad?
A: Yes although there are limits. I was aware of my boundaries basically about how much you can incite.
You use guarded words about general rather than specific incitement. But then the most difficult part actually
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24
was after 7/7, 2005. That's when the laws and regulations regarding incitement like you know were really
tightened.
Q: So you couldn't say what, and you could say what?
A: You can't specifically urge someone to go. You can't specifically call for an attack. You can't glorify
violence committed against civilians. You know you have to be careful there. You can sit down there
basically and blast the West for what they do. You can sit down there and talk about martyrdom in general
without you know touching directly on what's happening right now. So you have to be clever about how you
phrase your words.
Q: Do you ever feel guilty about having encouraged somebody to go to jihad?
10
A: Yes.
Q: Are there many occasions that this might have happened?
A: There were some occasions where that happened.
Q: What's the nature of the guilt, because of what they might have been involved in or because of how they
ended up?
15
A: I'm glad that no one was killed. However, one particular person ended up in prison for a long time.
Q: And you were instrumental in getting him out there?
A: I was a contributing factor but I wasn't the only one.
Saving lives
20
Dean says he foiled attacks involving suicide bombings and the use of poisons against civilians. He was also
able to hand plans to British intelligence of a device that was intended to be used for a chemical attack on the
New York subway. In the event, Osama Bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, called off the attack.
They would have used chemical weapons if it wasn't for al-Zawahiri saying, "No, don't use it."
25
Because it was a cell that was seeking permission from al-Zawahiri saying, "We are in possession of this
weapon, we know how to use it now, we know how to deliver it and we have a target for you. It's the New
York subway because we believe that the subway system with all the ventilation mechanism there will be a
perfect vehicle for delivering the gas and dispersing it across a wide network."
And so that's where Zawahiri said, "No, don't do it because the retaliation could get out of control."
Q: He didn't stop it because he thought it was the wrong thing to do, to put gas on the subway?
A: He stopped it because he was afraid of the ramifications.
30
Q: So you got these important plans. Can you tell me where you got those plans from?
A: Well, I wouldn't say even if I was allowed to!
Q: The fact you got those plans though suggests you had a high degree of clearance in al-Qaeda, trust.
A: I think I was privy to these plans because I have a certain talent, and I [pretended I] wanted to use that
talent for enabling these attacks. That's why.
35
Q: That's what al-Qaeda thought?
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A: Yeah.
Q: What was your certain talent?
A: I wouldn't say!
Valued first by al-Qaeda and then British security and intelligence, Aimen Dean's life under cover came to an
abrupt end when the cover was blown. An American writer disclosed his identity with details that could only
be sourced to Dean. That was eight years ago.
This is an edited version of Peter Marshall's interview with Aimen Dean, which was broadcast on The Spy
Who Came in from al-Qaeda, on BBC Radio 4 at 09:00 GMT on 3 March. You can catch up via the BBC
iPlayer Radio.
10
You can also catch up with Peter Marshall's interview with Aimen Dean on Islamic State - an edition of The
Report broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in January 2015.
Subscribe to the BBC News Magazine's email newsletter to get articles sent to your inbox.
END QUOTE
15
QUOTE 5-3-2015 EMAIL

Graham's Take.
Jim
Today at 7:45 PM
20
To
25
----- Original Message ----From:

To:
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 6:39 PM
Subject: Fwd: Graham's Take.
30
35
----- Forwarded message ----Date: Thursday, March 5, 2015

Subject: Graham's Take.
Those who know me well will acknowledge that I generally prefer privacy for my views on matters of public
interest we can all vote with our feet at the proper time. However there is one matter that has now so
repeatedly caused me anger and dismay that I feel compelled to have my say and to encourage my family and
friends to help do something about it at every opportunity that presents. And it is a matter upon which we
are not being given proper opportunity to vote with our feet or otherwise.
40
The issue is that of allowance by our Australian governments at all levels and of all persuasions under the
political correctness and anti-racial banners as the legal rights of the participants, the very same practices,
education and beliefs as those that constitute the background of the Islamic extremists spouting anti-western
sentiment and decapitating innocent people.
45
I am unequivocally of the view that to fail to see the connection between the behaviour of the extremists and
their background is as about the same as denying the connection between the drinking of alcohol and road
deaths, and whilst it is clearly not the case that a road death occurs every time a driver has a drink and wont
be the case that a jihadist is developed every time a person studies the Quran, there are some things that we
Australians just should not leave to chance whether preventative action will attract accusations of racism or
not. And if it does then it is the concept of political correctness that should be relegated to the trash can, not
50
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26
the reasonable actions of Australians who merely love their country and want the things it offers to remain for
the benefit of their grandchildren and their childrens grandchildren.
If the moderate and sensible Moslems in Australia cannot control the radicals in their communities now, then
how the hell are they going to control them later when the stakes have increased to the size and importance of
a power to legislate. And the capacity to get the members of the Moslem community into parliament is
growing steadily as their numbers increase on a world-wide basis and whilst we sit back allowing our
politicians to do nothing to extinguish or discourage the legal changes that would be so abhorrent to the
present majority of Australians.
10
15
I have attached a couple of articles the veracity of which I have not personally verified. However I neither
have any reason to disbelieve them and do know that they reflect my views. I urge every-one to read these
attachments and also to take the chances that go with supporting the Re-claim Australia Rally at King
George Square on 4th April, 2015 as a start point to getting some change to the behaviour of our politicians
regarding these matters. I think that if we dont stand up and be counted or if we cant make them do so then
we can kiss Australia (as we know it) good-bye.
___________________
20
WHAT'S AN INFIDEL?
25
This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry in the United
States . The man who walks with God always gets to his destination.
30
Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security
clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman
Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what
the Islamic had to say. The Muslim gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my
question to the Muslim and asked:
35
'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
Clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel,
which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?'
40
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill
everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
45
50
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just
been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'
I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill
those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in
Heaven.'
The Muslim was speechless.
55
I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your
followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me
in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He
wants you to be there with me?'
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head.
60
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27
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the Diversification Training Seminar were not happy with
my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.
___________________
5
FRENCH PRESIDENTS TAKE:
10
Muslims who want to live under the law of the 'Islamic Sharia' have recently been told to leave France in
order to guard against possible terrorist attacks. The government has targeted radicals. Apparently, the
Prime Minister, Francois Fillon has angered some French Muslims in stating:
Those immigrants who are not French must adapt. Take it or leave it, I am tired of this nation worrying
about whether we are offending some individual or their culture.
15
Our culture has developed with struggles and victories by millions of men and women who have sought
freedom. Our official language is French, not Spanish, or Lebanese, or Arabic, or Chinese, or Japanese, or
any other language. Therefore, if you want to be part of our society, learn the language!
20
Most French people believe in God. This is not some Christian obligation, influence by the rightists or
political pressure, but it is a fact, because men and women founded this nation on Christian principles and
this is clearly documented. It is then appropriate to display this on the walls of our schools? If God offends
you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your home, because God is part of our culture.
We will accept your beliefs without question. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in peaceful
harmony with us.
25
30
This is our country, our land and our lifestyle. And we offer you the opportunity to enjoy all this. But if
you're tired of our flag, our commitment, our Christian beliefs, or our lifestyle, I strongly encourage you to
take advantage of another great French freedom, the right to leave. If you are not happy here then
LEAVE. We did not force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country you chose.
END QUOTE 5-3-2015 EMAIL
35
40
45
http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/news-features/i-am-a-14yearold-yazidi-girl-who-was-given-as-a-giftto-is-20140911-3f9hf.html?eid=cpc:nnn-14omn2219-optim-nnn:outbrain-05/01/2015-outbrain_paid-dom-displayadnnn-dlfnnn&campaign_code=15caf005&promote_channel=sem&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign
=paid%20outbrain
QUOTE
I AM A 14-YEAR-OLD YAZIDI GIRL WHO WAS GIVEN AS A GIFT TO IS
News Features
Date
September 11, 2014
Mohammed A. Salih
50
Escaped from Islamic State militants ... 'Narin' was deeply scarred by her ordeal. Photo: The Washington
Post
This is the story told to me by a 14-year-old Yazidi girl I'll call "Narin," currently staying in northern
Iraqi Kurdistan. I am a Kurdish journalist with a journalism degree from the University of Missouri at
Columbia who covers northern Iraq as a freelancer for several international news outlets. I heard about
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28
Narin's tale through a Yazidi friend who knew her. Aside from translating from Kurdish and excerpting
her story in collaboration with Washington Post editors, the only things I changed are all the names, at
Narin's request, to protect her and other victims from reprisal; many of her relatives are still in captivity.
*
10
As the sun rose over my dusty village on August 3, relatives called with terrifying news: Jihadists from
the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) were coming for us. I'd expected just another day full of
household tasks in Tel Uzer, a quiet spot on the western Nineveh plains of Iraq, where I lived with my
family. Instead, we scrambled out of town on foot, taking only our clothes and some valuables.

During her captivity Narin was pressured to convert is Islam and become a concubine of a Islamic State
commander. Photo: The Washington Post
15
After an hour of walking north, we stopped to drink from a well in the heart of the desert. Our plan was to
take refuge on Mount Sinjar, along with thousands of other Yazidis like us who were fleeing there,
because we had heard a lot of stories about Islamic State brutality and what they had done to nonMuslims. They'd been converting religious minorities or simply killing them. But suddenly several
vehicles drew up and we found ourselves surrounded by militants wearing Islamic State uniforms.
Several people screamed in horror; we were scared for our lives. I've never felt so helpless in my 14
years. They had blocked our path to safety, and there was nothing we could do.
20
The militants divided us by gender and age: One for young and capable men, another for girls and young
women, and a third for older men and women. The jihadists stole cash and jewelry from this last group,
and left them alone at the oasis. Then they placed the girls and women in trucks. As they drove us away,
we heard gunshots. Later we learned that they were killing the young men, including my 19-year old
brother, who had married just six months ago.
25
That afternoon, they brought us to an empty school in Baaj, a little town west of Mosul near the Syrian
border. We met many other Yazidi women who were captured by Islamic State. Their fathers, brothers
and husbands had also been killed, they told us. Then Islamic State fighters entered. One of them recited
the words to the shahada, the Muslim creed "I testify that there is no God but Allah, and that
Muhammad is his prophet" and said that if we repeated them, we would become Muslims. But we
refused. They were furious. They insulted us a lot and cursed us and our beliefs.
30

Islamic State militants shot Narin's brother and still hold her sister-in-law captive. Photo: The
Washington Post
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A couple of days later, we were taken to a large hall full of a few dozen more Yazidi girls and women in
Mosul, where Islamic State has its Iraqi headquarters. Some of the fighters were my age. They told us we
were pagans and confined us for 20 days inside the building, where we slept on the floor and ate only
once per day. Every now and then, an Islamic State man would come in and tell us to convert, but each
time we refused. As faithful Yazidis, we would not abandon our religion. We wept a lot and mourned the
losses suffered by our community.
One day, our guards separated the married from unmarried women. My good childhood friend Shayma
and I were given as a gift to two Islamic State members from the south, near Baghdad. They wanted to
make us their wives or concubines. Shayma was awarded to Abu Hussein, who was a cleric. I was given
to an overweight, dark-bearded man about 50 years old who seemed to have some high rank. He went by
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the nickname Abu Ahmed. They drove us down to their home in Fallujah. On the road, we saw many
Islamic State fighters and remnants of their battles.
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Abu Ahmed, Abu Hussein and an aide lived in a Fallujah house that looked like a palace. Abu Ahmed
kept telling me to convert, which I ignored. He tried to rape me several times, but I did not allow him to
touch me in any sexual way. Instead, he cursed me and beat me every day, punching and kicking me. He
fed me only one meal per day. Shayma and I began to discuss killing ourselves.
We were given mobile phones and instructed to call our families. Their journey had been almost as hard
as ours: They'd made it to Mount Sinjar, where ISIS surrounded them and tried to starve them to death.
After five days under siege, Kurdish rescue forces evacuated them to Syria and then brought them back to
northern Iraq. If they traveled to Mosul and converted to Islam, our captors had us tell them, we would be
released. Understandably, they did not trust ISIS, so they did not make the trip.
On our sixth day in Fallujah, Abu Ahmed and the aide left for business in Mosul. Abu Hussein, Shayma's
captor, stayed behind. Around sunset the next evening, he went to the mosque for prayers, leaving us
alone in the house. Using our mobile phones, we had contacted Mahmoud, a Sunni friend of Shayma's
cousin, who lived in Fallujah, for help. It was too dangerous for him to rescue us from the house, so
Shayma and I used kitchen knives and meat cleavers to break the locks of two doors to get out. Wearing
traditional long black abayas that we found in the house, we walked for 15 minutes through town, which
was quiet for evening prayers. Then Mahmoud came and picked us up on the street and took us to his
home.
That night, Mahmoud fed us and gave us a place to sleep. The next morning, he recruited a cab driver to
take us all on the two-hour ride to Baghdad. The driver said he was afraid of Islamic State but offered to
help us for God's sake. We dressed like local women and covered our faces with a niqab, leaving only our
eyes visible. Mahmoud gave us fake student IDs in case we were stopped at checkpoints.
I had never felt so much anxiety. At each checkpoint, I was sure we'd be discovered. At one I cannot
recall if it was controlled by Islamic State or Iraqi forces Mahmoud bribed the guards to let us through.
We had contacted Yazidi and Muslim Kurdish family friends to help us in Baghdad, and I cannot
describe the dizzy sense of relief I felt when we arrived at their house.
In Baghdad, the family friends gave us another pair of fake ID cards that enabled us to board a flight to
Irbil, the capital of Kurdistan in the north. I still couldn't believe we were free until our plane touched the
ground. After staying in Irbil overnight at the house of a Yazidi member of the Iraqi parliament, Vian
Dakhil, we traveled north to Shekhan, to the residence of Baba Sheikh, the spiritual leader of the world's
Yazidis.
After so much fear for so many days, hugging my dad again was the best moment of my life. He said he
had cried for me every day since I disappeared. That evening, we went to Khanke, where my mother was
staying with her relatives. We hugged and kept crying until then I fainted. My month-long ordeal was
over, and I felt reborn.
But there more bad news to come. That's when I learned that Islamic State had shot my brother at the
oasis. My sister-in-law, a very beautiful woman, is still captive somewhere in Mosul. Now I am trying to
come to terms with what happened. I can never again set foot in our little village, even if it's freed from
Islamic State, because the memory of my brother who died nearby would haunt me too much. I still have
nightmares and swoon several times a day when I remember what I saw or imagine what would have
happened if Shayma and I hadn't escaped.
What can I do? I want to leave this country altogether. This country is no place for me anymore. I want to
go to a place where I might be able to start over, if that is even possible.
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The Washington Post

END QUOTE
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10
Regardless if we are dealing with fanatics in Islam or fanatic being Aboriginals, and others, it is
the right of every citizen to express himself/herself about matters to ensure POLITICAL and
RELIGIOUS LIBERTY!
I understand that you do not desire s18C to be amended of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975. I
may state that in my view the Racial Discrimination Act 1975 is unconstitutional this as the
Framers of the Constitution made clear that raced legislation could not be made against the
general community.
Hansard 27-1-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
QUOTE
Mr. BARTON.-We are going to suggest that it should read as follows:-
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the people of any race for whom it is deemed necessary to make any laws not applicable to the general
community; but so that this power shall not extend to authorize legislation with respect to the affairs of
the aboriginal race in any state.
Mr. ISAACS.-My observations were extended much further than that. The term general community" I
understand to mean the general community of the whole Commonwealth. If it means the general
community of the whole Commonwealth, I do not see the meaning of saying that the Parliament of the
Commonwealth shall have the exclusive authority to do that, because any single state would have the right to
do it under any circumstances. If it means less than that-if it means the general community of a state-I do not
see why it should not be left to the state. We should be placed in a very awkward position indeed if any
particular state is forbidden to pass any distinctive legislation in certain well-known instances. For instance, if
Victoria should choose to enact that Afghans shall only get hawkers' licences under certain conditions which
are not [start page 228] applicable to Europeans she may be debarred by this sub-section from doing so. I do
not know how it will affect our factory law in regard to the Chinese which does not operate beyond the
confines of Victoria at all.
Sir EDWARD BRADDON.-Why single out the Afghans?
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Mr. ISAACS.-If any other race possess the same characteristic as the Afghans I will put them in the same
class. At all events, the expression general community" means the whole community of the Commonwealth. I
do not think that this has any application. If it is to have any application at all, it seems to me to be intended to
debar the state from passing legislation-necessary legislation, but purely confined to that state. I do not think
that that sub-section ought to be there at all if that is the meaning of it.
Mr. BARTON (New South Wales).-I think the original intention of this sub-section was to deal with
the affairs of such persons of other races-what are generally called inferior races, though I do not know
with how much warrant sometimes-who may be in the Commonwealth at the time it is brought into
existence, or who may under the laws of the Commonwealth regulating aliens come into it. We have
made the dealing with aliens, which includes a certain degree of coloured immigration, a power of the
Commonwealth, and we have made the dealing with immigration a power of the Commonwealth, so
that all those of the races who come into the community after the establishment of the Commonwealth
will not only enter subject to laws made in respect to their immigration, but will remain subject to any
laws which the Commonwealth may specially devise for them. There is no reason why the Commonwealth
should not have power to devise such laws.
Sir GEORGE TURNER.-An exclusive power?
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Mr. BARTON.-It ought to have an exclusive power to devise such laws.

Sir GEORGE TURNER.-If it does not exercise it can the state exercise it?
Mr. BARTON.-Once the Commonwealth legislates with reference to the question of aliens and
immigration, its legislation displaces the state law.
END QUOTE
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It must be understood that where the Framers of the Constitution specifically held that race
legislation cannot be against the general community then it neither can be achieved by
backdoor manner within external affairs powers.
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HANSARD 17-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the National
Australasian Convention)
QUOTE Mr. DEAKIN.What a charter of liberty is embraced within this Bill-of political liberty and religious liberty-the
liberty and the means to achieve all to which men in these days can reasonably aspire. A charter of
liberty is enshrined in this Constitution, which is also a charter of peace-of peace, order, and good
government for the whole of the peoples whom it will embrace and unite.
END QUOTE
And
QUOTE
Mr. SYMON (South Australia).- We who are assembled in this Convention are about to commit to the
people of Australia a new charter of union and liberty; we are about to commit this new Magna Charta
for their acceptance and confirmation, and I can conceive of nothing of greater magnitude in the whole
history of the peoples of the world than this question upon which we are about to invite the peoples of
Australia to vote. The Great Charter was wrung by the barons of England from a reluctant king. This new
charter is to be given by the people of Australia to themselves.
END QUOTE
As such where Muslims deals with being religion then religious liberty cannot be denied to
those who may speak out against a certain religion.
.
DIXON CJ if lawyers do not keep abreast of changes of the law then alien from outer space
might do better
Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem, relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam, a monotheistic
Abrahamic religion based on the Quran. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as
revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
35
Understanding Islam and the Muslims - IslamiCity.com
www.islamicity.com/education/understandingislamandmuslims/
... every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life.
Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy and forgiveness.
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Clearly Islam is not just a religion but as is stated Islam is both a religion and a complete
way of life
BBC - Religions - Islam: Sharia
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British Broadcasting Corporation - Sep 2009

All aspects of a Muslim's life are governed by Sharia. Sharia law comes from a combination of sources
including the Qur'an, the sayings of the prophet and the rulings of Islamic ...
Explore: sharia law
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http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/05/10/3756163.htm
QUOTE
Opinion
Islamic Australia? What place is there for sacred law in a secular land?
Mohamad Abdalla ABC Religion and Ethics 10 May 2013
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Whether in Australia or Saudi Arabia, the Shari'a helps Muslims live in ways that are deemed legal, fulfilling
and pleasing to their Maker. But the application of Islamic law in Australia is limited. Credit:
www.shutterstock.com
See also
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Related Story: Injustice in God's name: The corruption of modern Islam Khaled Abou El Fadl
24 Sep 2012
Related Story: Violence the product of a hollowed out Islam Mohamad Abdalla 22 Sep 2012
Related Story: Can Muslims ever be 'one of us'? Rethinking difference, solidarity and guilt Asma
Barlas 19 Jun 2012
Related Story: Secularism in crisis? Muslims and the challenge of multiculturalism Tariq Modood
8 Aug 2012
Related Story: Islamophobia and the Muslim civil rights crisis Mohammed Ansar 29 Jan 2013
Related Story: Best of 2012: Can Liberalism tolerate Islam? Abdal Hakim Murad 4 Jan 2013
Comments (28)
The term Shari'a usually conjures fear in the Western mind due to its association with the harsh penal laws
and its supposed incompatibility with democracy and human rights. Indeed, it seems that no legal system has
ever had worse press.
In 2006, the then Federal Treasurer Peter Costello declared that "there was no place for Sharia laws in secular
society like Australia," because being an Australian means that "you do have to believe in democracy, the
rule of law and the rights and liberties of others" - all concepts not discounted by the Shari'a. In March 2012
the then Attorney-General Nicola Roxon said that "there is no place for Sharia law in the Australian society
and the government strongly rejects any proposal for its introduction," in response to the execution of wills
that favour sons over daughters.
This pejorative image is the result of a range of factors, including media's tendency to emphasise the
"differences," which in turn feeds into fears about Muslim presence in Australia, as well as a failure to
understand the meaning and nature of Shari'a, including the belief that Shari'a represents a major obstacle to
women's rights. In Australia, this is possibly exacerbated by requests made by some Muslims to introduce a
plural legal system in Australia - such as that in Singapore or India - that can accommodate aspects of Islamic
law, and by more extreme demands to fully implement Shari'a by groups such as Sharia4Australia.
I do not here want to focus on the debate over legal pluralism, but the fact that there is such a call for the
recognition of aspects of Shari'a law in Australia begs my central question about the extent to which a
Muslim is obliged to follow Shari'a law in a non-Muslim country.
What is the Shari'a?
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The word "Shari'a" appears once in the Qur'an, denoting a religious path (45:18) and not simply Islamic law.
Lexically, it means "path" or "road" to a watering place or a path to "achieve salvation" in the Hereafter.
Technically, the Shari'a refers to a body of explicit revealed laws (nas; pl. nusus) found in the primary
sources of the Qur'an and Sunna (sayings, actions and tacit approval of the Prophet Muhammad), which
provide the subject matter of the law. The nas is fixed and unchangeable and largely general, with basic
principles such as "establish prayer" and "do not approach prayer whilst intoxicated."
Fiqh (jurisprudence) is a related term that refers to knowledge of practical legal ruling derived from their
specific evidence - in other words, it represents a body of laws deduced from the Qur'an and Sunna to cover
specific situations not directly treated in the revealed sources. Unlike the Shari'a, fiqh is flexible and changes
according to the circumstances under which it is applied, and it tends to be specific. The process of deducing
legal laws is undertaken through independent legal reasoning (ijtihad) based on secondary sources including
ijma' (general consensus of the learned), qiyas (analogical reasoning), istihsan (juristic preference), istislah or
saslaha mursala (consideration of public interest), sadd al-dharai' (blocking the means), istishab
(presumption of continuity) and 'urf (customary practice).
In deriving legal-ethical rules (ahkam), qualified scholars first examine the Qur'an and Sunna for a particular
nas constituting "the real eternal Shari'a." With the exception of the explicit texts, the Islamic legal system is
not static, immutable or unchangeable, but evolves in response to changing social, political, economic,
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intellectual and political circumstances. Hence, the overwhelming attitude of Muslim jurists and scholars over
the centuries has been the importance of the continued examination and re-examination of Islamic legal
literature, making the evolution of Islamic jurisprudence a common practice.
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Furthermore, in developing its legal system, scholars take into account the higher objectives of Shari'a,
known as maqasid al-Shari'a, which include the preservation of religion, human life, progeny, material
wealth and human reason. Taqi al-Din ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328) added to the list of objectives "fulfilment
of contracts, preservation of the ties of kinship, honouring the rights of one's neighbour, in so far as the affairs
of this world are concerned, and the love of God, sincerity, trustworthiness and moral purity, in relationship
to the hereafter."
For believers, therefore, the Shari'a is always relevant and important wherever they reside because it is
the core of their religion, guiding every aspect of their social, economic, political and private lives. It is
religion and law at once. Given the centrality and importance of Shari'a in the lives of Muslims, the question
is not whether, but which of its laws are Muslims obliged to follow in non-Muslim lands? Any discussion
concerning the obligation to follow the Shari'a is incomplete without an exposition of the classical and
contemporary bifurcation of the world into abodes (or territories): dar al-Islam and dar al-kufr. This is true
because the extent to which Shari'a laws can be followed is directly dependent on this bifurcation. Therefore,
a somewhat detailed explanation of this bifurcation is essential.
The division of territories into "abodes"
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The Arabic noun dar simply denotes a home or abode. In its wider juristic meaning it refers to a country,
region or territory. In the absence of an explicit text in the Qur'an and Sunna, classical Muslim jurists coined
the terms dar al-Islam ("abode of Islam"), dar al-kufr ("abode of unbelief") and dar al-Harb ("abode of war")
to reflect the intended meaning found in speculative texts.
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The bifurcation is a product of ijtihad and is therefore subject to various interpretations. Undoubtedly, this
bifurcation was influenced by the geo-political context of the day, and is thus dictated by events and not
derived from explicit Islamic legislation. Given this context, the juristic understanding of the division of the
world into abodes was heavily influenced by prevailing political circumstances and the balance of military
power between the Islamic world and the rest of the world.
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The complexity and diversity of contextual circumstances forced a wide range of scholarly discussions on
this issue, leading to ambiguous language and no explicit stance on what is actually meant by labelling
territories with any of the terms. However, in attempting to classify territories into abodes, and in the absence
of explicit texts, classical jurists suggested that one looks at the 'illah or rationale for determining whether a
land is dar al-Islam or otherwise. This, naturally, led to a number of conclusions.
The majority of Sunni jurists said that the 'illah that distinguishes one country from another is the
prevalence of ahkam (laws, ordinances or legal rulings) - that is, a country is considered dar al-Islam
where Islamic laws prevails. This view is supported by the majority of scholars of the Hanafi, Hanbali
and Zahiri schools of law.
Another group of jurists - most notably Imam Abu Hanifa (699-767) - argued that the rationale is
safety or fear, such that a territory is considered dar al-Islam if its Muslim and dhimmi (protected nonMuslims) population feel safe to practice their faith. Furthermore, he argued that a territory becomes
dar al-kufr only if (1) non-Islamic laws prevail, (2) it directly borders on dar al-kufr, and (3) there
remains no Muslim or dhimmi safe to practice their faith as was afforded to them by dar al-Islam. Abu
Hanifa's foremost students, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad rejected the last two conditions, arguing that
dar al-Islam becomes dar al-kufr only if Islamic laws cease to prevail. Some Shafi'i jurists added that
a territory becomes dar al-kufr if Muslims are no longer safe to practice their faith, even if it is a
majority Muslim country, and a majority non-Muslim country is considered dar al-Islam if it is ruled
by Islamic law, and Muslims are safe to practice their faith. Al-Shawk(1760-1834) went further and
argued that a country that is not under Muslim jurisdiction is considered dar al-Islam "as long as a
Muslim can reside there in safety and freely fulfil his religious obligations."
Another opinion, advocated most notably by Abdul Wahab Khalaf (1888-1956), reconciles both views
above and stipulates that an abode is considered dar al-Islam if Islamic laws prevail and all citizens Muslims and dhimmis - feel safe to practice their faith.
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Lastly, a group of scholars from the Maliki school of law, such as Muhammad 'Arafah ad-Dasuqi (d.
1815), argue that the 'illah is the extent to which the rituals and acts of worship are publically
manifested. This view is also supported by scholars of the Zaydi school of law.
The diversity of definitions is indicative of the evolving understanding of the concept of abode. In fact, the
geo-political context forced jurists to reassess continuously the standard bifurcation and offer more fitting
constructs. Thus, to the above list they added dar al-'ahd ("abode of covenant"), which is divided into dar
'ahd al-dhimma (abode of covenant with protected non-Muslims who are under the jurisdiction of dar alIslam) and dar al-muwada'a (abode of covenant with non-Muslims who are not under the jurisdiction of dar
al-Islam).
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This can be further appreciated from the fatwa issued by the Hanbali jurist Taqi al-Din ibn Taymiyyah (d.
1328) regarding the city of Mardin (now in south-eastern Turkey), which was conquered by the Mongols in
the fourteenth century. The majority population of Mardin were Muslims and, although its Mongol rulers
were also Muslim, they were criticised for failing to faithfully adhere to Islam. Hence, Ibn Taymiyyah was
asked if the city of Mardin is an abode of war, and if so, whether its Muslim population should migrate to dar
al-Islam. In response, he said:
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"As for whether it is a land of war or peace, it is a composite situation [dar murakkaba]. It is not an abode of
peace where the legal rulings of Islam are applied and its armed forces are Muslim. Neither is it the same as
an abode of war whose inhabitants are unbelievers. It is a third category. The Muslims living therein should
be treated according to their rights as Muslims, while the non-Muslims living there outside of the authority of
Islamic law should be treated according to their rights."
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Such a diversity of opinions should not be surprising because in formulating legal doctrines jurists were
exercising ijtihad based on speculative texts and influenced by the political context of the day. This evolution
is indicative of the flexibility of Islamic jurisprudence that is meant to interact with its context. That is why
Ibn Taymiyyah invented a new term ("a composite situation," dar murakkaba) to delineate the particular
context of Mardin, demonstrating his understanding that, as Abd al-Wahhab al-Turayri says, "the world is not
to be divided simplistically into Islamic lands and non-Islamic lands, unlike many before him who held to
that dualistic view."
Therefore, in classifying territories into abodes, jurists were guided by text and context. Further, the
bifurcation seems to have served two important functions: first, to guide and govern international relations
between Islamic and non-Islamic countries, and second, to determine the extent to which the Shari'a should
be followed or applied in whichever abode Muslims reside, as a majority or minority community.
Of course, the particular geo-political dynamics of our modern world have precipitated the emergence of
secular democracies such as Australia, a form of government whose constitution allows and protects religious
freedom. As such, and to a very large degree, Australian Muslims are safe and secure to practice their faith
freely. This is the case despite the fact that Islamic laws do not prevail and the Shari'a neither shapes nor
influences Australia's constitution.
Australia - an abode of Islam, unbelief or war?
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How then can the various abodes coined by classical jurists apply to modern, democratic countries (like
Australia) where Muslims are considered equal citizens, enjoy the right to practice their faith safely and
without being coerced into suppressing or abandoning their faith? In proposing their answers, contemporary
scholars, like their predecessors, differed.
Shaykh Faysal Mawlawi (advisor of the Sunni High Court in Beirut) labels secular, democratic nations as dar
al-da'wa, best translated as abode of invitation to Islam or even, of "Islamic proselytism." It is interesting that
Mawlawcarefully chooses this label, perhaps because, as Andrew March argues:
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"Da'wa has long served a number of purposes for shari'a minded scholars, from justifying long-term
residence in non-Muslim lands to the suspension of jihad. But embedded in contemporary discussions of
da'wa is a subtle reformulation of basic attitudes towards non-Muslims' welfare and moral personality."
Prominent contemporary scholars Abd al-Qadir 'Awda, Muhammad Abu Zahra and more recently Shaykh
Yusuf al-Qaradawi have argued that secular, democratic nations are best regarded as dar al-'ahd ("abode of
covenant"). This was recently supported by a 2012 fatwa issued by the International Union for Muslim
Scholars regarding the Russian Republic of Dagestan, whose majority population are Muslims of diverse
ethnic backgrounds. The fatwa declared that, "based on present-day realities countries that have embassies or
enjoy diplomatic relations with Muslim countries fall within the realm of dar al-'ahd." This label is also
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significant because of its legal Shari'a implications, for it justifies the prohibition of breaching covenants
while living in non-Muslim countries, prohibition of treachery and the need to uphold the law of the land.
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The Dagestan fatwa also declared that "the jurists agree that a territory or nation in which Muslims reside,
wherein the rituals and rules of Islam are practiced, and Muslims enjoy religious freedom, cannot be
considered an abode of war. Rather it is an abode of Islam or dar al-salam ("abode of peace"), even if such a
country is dominated by a non-Islamic state." The Republic of Dagestan was thus labelled an "abode of
peace," even though it is not governed by Shari'a law and is less democratic than Australia.
On the other hand, due to the religious freedoms afforded to Muslims in non-Muslims countries, the
Moroccan scholar Abd al-Aziz ibn al-Siddiq argues that "Europe and America [and by extension Australia],
by virtue of this fact, have become Islamic countries fulfilling all the Islamic characteristics by which a
resident living here becomes the resident of an Islamic country in accordance with the terminology of the
legal scholars of Islam." While this view contradicts the majority view stipulated above, it is consistent with
Al-Shawkani's view that a country that is not under Muslim jurisdiction is considered dar al-Islam "as long as
a Muslim can reside there in safety and freely fulfil his religious obligations." Based on the same logic, at the
occasion of a congress of the Union of Islamic Organisations in France (UOIF) in 1989, the Tunisian
intellectual Rached al-Ghannouchi declared that France should be considered an abode of Islam (dar alIslam) and not an abode of covenant (dar al-'ahd).
Despite the fact that Australia fulfils many of the higher objectives of Shari'a, to consider it "Islamic" or an
abode of Islam is problematic for two main reasons: this view contradicts the majority view of Muslim
jurists; and Australia is a secular democracy, a form of government that is not affiliated with any religious
identity. Section 116 of Australia's Constitution separates religious and civil authority and prohibits the
Commonwealth from enacting laws establishing any religion or enforcing religious observance, or
prohibiting freedom of religious practice:
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"The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious
observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a
qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth."
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This is a type of government unknown to classical Muslim jurists, and has no historical precedent in any
Islamic legal school of thought. As a democracy, no particular religious law prevails or is advocated. For that
reason, and the fact that Islamic laws do not prevail, Australia cannot be labelled "Islamic." But nor can
Australia be labelled an "abode of war" because it is not a "territory of war" that is aggressive against its
Muslim citizens. And based on the aforementioned juristic views Australia does not - strictly speaking - fit
within the definition of the "abode of unbelief" because it provides Muslims safe and free practice of their
faith despite the fact that it is not governed by Shari'a laws.
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This is perhaps why Al-Turayri, professor of theology at Imam University in Riyadh, argues that secular,
democratic countries are best described as dar al-sulh ("abode of truce/armistice or peace and
reconciliation"), denoting - in its classical definition - a "non-Muslim territory that has concluded an
armistice with a Muslim government, agreeing to protect Muslims and their clients in that territory and often
including an agreement to pay (or receive) tribute." However, while Australia is bound by its constitution to
protect all of its citizens, including minority religious communities such as the Muslims, it has not concluded
an armistice with a Muslim government nor does it pay or receive a tribute. This label, therefore, is partially
accurate but fails to encompass the political reality of Australia.
The array of views offered by contemporary Muslim scholars is further evidence that labelling of abodes is
subjective and heavily influenced by context. Interestingly, though, none of the leading contemporary
scholars labelled western, democratic nations such as Australia negatively (as abodes of war or unbelief).
Instead, the labelling was positive (abode of Islam, peace or covenant), if we can call it that. At best,
Australia fulfils - to some limited extent - the conditions of an abode of covenant, even though this is the
result of its own constitution and not some treaty with a Muslim nation. There is no doubt that it also fulfils
the conditions of an abode of peace and not war. Regardless of what label one gives to Australia, the fact
remains that it is a secular democracy and is not "Islamic." To what extent, then, are Muslims obliged to
follow the Shari'a in a secular, democratic country?
The limited obligation to follow Shari'a in Australia
As a jurisprudential principal, Muslims are obliged to follow the dictates of Shari'a whether living in Muslim
or non-Muslim countries. This principal was summed up by Imam Shafi'i (767-820):
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"whatever [the Shari'a] declares as lawful (halal) in the abode of Islam (dar al-Islam) is considered lawful in
the abode of unbelief (dar al-kufr). And whatever it declares as unlawful (haram) in the abode of Islam is
considered unlawful in the abode of unbelief."
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Hence, for instance, lying, cheating and fraud are considered unlawful in both abodes, whether dealing with
Muslims or non-Muslims. Equally, devotional matters such as the five times daily prayers, fasting and
payment of zakah are binding on Muslims wherever they may reside. However, the extent to which the
Shari'a should be followed is dependent on various circumstances, including the social and political context
of a country, and/or personal reasons such as health. For Muslim jurists, one of the most important factors is
the "abode" in which a Muslim resides.
The application of Shari'a for minority Muslim communities in predominantly Western countries belongs to a
new field of jurisprudence named fiqh al-aqaliyyat, or jurisprudence for Muslim minorities. Coined in the
1990s (by Taha Jabir al-'Alwani and Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Qatar), the concept caused controversy among the
more "traditional" scholars who assumed that it refers to the formation of a new jurisprudence that falls
outside normative Islamic law. This term is more appreciated today, especially given that it allows scholars to
study the peculiar situation of minority Muslim communities and propose juristic solutions consistent with
the prevailing context.
Examples of issues that this field of jurisprudence investigates include political participation in non-Muslim
government, citizenship, military service and family law, performance of the Friday congregational prayer in
places of worship other than the Mosque, delivering the Friday sermon in a language other than Arabic,
determining the beginning and end of the fasting month of Ramadan, interest-based transactions, taxation,
polygamy and so forth.
The fiqh of Muslim minorities derives its rules from the same sources of Shari'a. Under this branch of fiqh, a
number of legal maxims are utilised to facilitate removing hardship and out of consideration of public
interests for Muslim minorities. Hence, the juristic principals of hukm al-makan (place-dependant rulings),
zaman (time), ahwal (circumstances) and 'urf (customary practices) play an important role in fiqh of Muslim
minorities.
Accordingly some scholars, such as Abdallah bin Bayyah, "consider the situation of Muslims who live in
non-Muslim lands as a reason to drop some of the Shari'a rulings," not to abrogate an original explicit ruling
of Shari'a but to fulfil public interest and the higher objectives of Shari'a. Further, as Hashim Kamali argues,
dropping "some of the Shari'a rulings" in non-Muslim countries is based on a number of legal maxims,
including the maxim "Hardship is to be alleviated," which "merely paraphrases parallel Qur'anic dicta on the
theme of removal of hardship."
For this reason, for example, the European Council for Fatwa and Research (ECFR) issued a fatwa allowing
minority Muslim communities in non-Muslim countries to purchase houses with a usurious loan from
conventional banks, despite clear textual evidence in the Shari'a that prohibits dealing with usury (riba). The
ECFR arrived at their fatwa based on two juristic considerations:
the agreed upon juristic maxim, "necessity makes the unlawful lawful" - derived
from five Qur'anic texts, such as: "But whosoever is forced by necessity without
wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits; (for him) certainly, your Lord is
oft-Forgiving, most merciful" (6:145);
"The juristic verdict which claims that it is permissible for Muslims to trade with
usury and other invalid contracts in countries other than Islamic countries." The
ECFR argued that their fatwa is also founded on the juristic understanding that,
"according to Shari'a, Muslims are not obliged to establish the civil, financial and
political status of Shari'a in non-Muslim countries, as these lie beyond their
capabilities. God does not require people to do things that are beyond their capacity."
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Despite some opposition to the fatwa, prominent contemporary jurists such as Abdallah ibn Bayyah agree
that minority Muslim communities in non-Muslim countries are only obliged to follow laws of personal status
to the best of their capacity. These include "religious obligations, as well as moral recommendations, and are
primarily addresses to the individual," and would primarily cover 'ibadat or devotional matters (including
prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, confirming to modest dress code, paying zakah and so forth).
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On the other hand, juridical obligations are dropped for minority Muslim communities because they are
"enforceable through formal sanctions by the courts of justice." Hence, they are not obliged, nor expected, to
follow Shari'a laws that fall under juridical obligations such as criminal law, government policy and
constitution and economic policy. These laws belong to a set of rules known to Muslim jurists as al-ahkam
al-sultaniyyah (principals of government), and are the prerogative of juridical authority.
An example of al-ahkam al-sultaniyyah are the hudud laws, the penalties that the Qur'an and Sunna have
prescribed for heinous crimes - including murder, fornication, adultery and rape, defamation, theft and
consumption of intoxicants. These laws are only enforceable by the state through the apparatus of the
judiciary and would be part of the criminal law. Muslim minorities are not obliged to practice the hudud laws
because imposing punishments has been left to the ruler and the judge of an Islamic state (the legislature and
judiciary in modern society).
Clearly, Muslims are not obliged to bring to practice aspects of the Shari'a that deal with juridical obligations.
Most aspects of personal status law, however, are being practiced unhindered in Australia. Muslims are free
to believe and follow any of the schools of law in the Sunni or Shia tradition; or, as Ann Black and Kerrie
Saddiq have argued, the "sufi/salafi spectrum; the national and expatriate versions, and the dynamic of ijtihad
(reasoning) which spawns a spectrum of views on legal, theological and doctrinal matters." They are also free
to follow the modest clothing dictates of Shari'a despite some opposition to the wearing of the face-cover
(niqab). And given that Australian family law is by and large, relatively accommodating, Muslims are able to
conduct marriage in accordance with the Shari'a and Australian laws. Whenever possible, marriage and
divorce according to Shari'a is being practiced "quietly" in Australia.
And in addition to being able to consume halal (permissible) food, many non-Islamic commercial industries
are complying with halal specifications to meet the needs of a growing national and international clientele. In
fact, for more than a century Australian Muslims "have worked studies, raised families, worshipped and lived
their lives in accordance with the tenets of Islam while adhering to Australian Law." There are also
alternative options (though limited and subject to further reform) to the interest-based conventional loans,
such as the MCCA Islamic Finance and Banking based in Melbourne. There have also been measures taken
by the Australian government to "position itself as a 'financial hub in the Asia Pacific region" and in 2012 the
government ordered a "review of the Australian taxation laws to ensure Islamic finance have 'parity with
conventional products'.''
At a more general level, Muslims are obliged to follow the dictates of Shari'a that calls for living mercifully
and compassionately with non-Muslims, based on primary evidence such as the hadith, "God will not be
merciful to those who are not merciful toward people." Furthermore, in dealing with non-Muslims, the Shari'a
demands Muslims:
to show birr (kindness) and qist (justice): "and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with
anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just";
to honour legal contracts including abiding by laws of the land: "fulfil any pledge you make in God's
name and do not break oaths after you have sworn them, for you have made God your surety";
not to cause, promote or be involved in corruption nor cause destruction, for "God does not like
corruption."
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The extent to which Muslims need follow the dictates of Shari'a in a non-Muslim country such as Australia
was succinctly summarised by Abdallah ibn Bayyah:
"A Muslim is not obliged to establish Shari'a law in civil, financial or political matters, or anything related to
the prevailing social order in a non-Muslim country. The reason is that these laws are beyond individual's
capacity, and God does not burden a soul beyond its capacity. A Muslim, however, is obliged to abide by the
Sharia rules specific to him such as the rituals, food, drinks, clothing, and that which relates to matters of
marriage and divorce, inheritance and matters of personal status.
The obligation to follow the law of the land
That the Shari'a obliges Muslims to comply with the laws of their country of residence is premised on the
Qur'anic dicta demanding fulfilling "obligations" and "covenants," as in the imperatives "You who believe,
fulfil your obligations" and "Honour your pledges: you will be questioned about your pledges." Hence, when
asked for a fatwa about the extent to which the Shari'a allows Muslims to obey the governments of the nonMuslim countries in which they live, the prominent contemporary Shaykh Salman al-Oadah replied:
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"The Muslims living in a non-Muslim country, even if they originally entered that country by means of
forged documents, are considered to be living in their adopted country under a covenant. They must,
therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic
Law."
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By "disobeying Islamic law" is meant matters that relate to personal obligations as, for example, Muslim
women being asked by the Australian government to remove their hijab (head scarf), or Muslims being asked
to consume alcohol or unlawful food, which is unconstitutional and farfetched. Given that section 116 of
Australia's Constitution separates religious and civil authority and prohibits the Commonwealth from
enacting laws establishing any religion or enforcing religious observance, or prohibiting freedom of religious
practice, it is evident that no authority, religious or otherwise, can force a Muslim to abide by, or abandon,
any personal religious laws unless deemed illegal by Australian law.
Classical Muslim jurists applied the same rule for Muslims passing through enemy lands (in other words, an
abode of war), as demonstrated in the fatwa of the imminent jurist of his time, Muhammad ibn Hasan alShaybani (748-804):
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"If it happens that a company of Muslims pass through the enemy's front lines by deceptively pretended to be
messengers of the Muslim's Caliph carrying official documents - or if they were just allowed to pass through
the enemy lines - they are not allowed to engage in any hostilities with the enemy troops. Neither are they
entitled to seize any of their money or properties as long as they are in their area of authority. This also
applies in case of being truly trusted by the other party."
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This understanding was summed up by the eleventh century Maliki jurist, Abu al-Hasan al-Qabisi (9351012). When asked about the authority of a leader appointed by local Muslims living in non-Muslim lands, he
replied:
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"When Muslims reside and settle in a place (among non-Muslims) and make it their established abode, they
need to have someone [a leader such as an Imam] to deal with their affairs and judge among them. Such a
person needs to have power to execute his judgments delegated to him by the authority ruling the place,
because it would be unthinkable to act in defiance of kings [or the government] in the regions under their
rule."
Muslim jurists, therefore, understood that the ultimate authority in any country belongs to the government,
and so in a non-Muslim context it is counter-intuitive to assume that individual Muslims, or the religious
leaders, can take the law into their own hands when they are not permitted to do so even in Muslim countries.
The question of authority in non-Islamic countries was discussed at length by classical Muslim jurists. For
example, in his book Ghiyath the renowned jurist Imam Al-Juwayni examined "the forms and duties of
Islamic government and the options open to the Muslim community in case of non-existence of such a
government" and the "status of Muslims when Islam is not in power." Writing in the eleventh century when
the Islamic empire was powerful, Al-Juwayni hypothesised that a time might come when the Islamic empire
is weakened and bereft of a legitimate Islamic authority. In that case he assumed that either that there will be
no qualified imams (religious scholars) in these regions, or they will not possess the adequate power to rule.
If this was to happen, al-Juwayni argued, Islamic law (or part thereof) could only continue to be implemented
by "conferring authority" to its religious scholars (the 'ulama). This "authority" can be bestowed by the ruling
government making it formal and legally binding, or by the minority Muslim community making it informal
and not legally binding.
Historically, minority Muslim communities in religiously plural countries such as China, India and Spain
exercised considerable autonomy in judicial matters, and were allowed to govern their own affairs according
to Islamic law. The religious leaders in these countries acted as judges and applied Islamic law for Muslims
who choose this option. This is not the case in Australia and so Muslim religious leaders - like leaders from
other religious communities - simply act as arbitrators, mediators or advisors to individual Muslims who
choose to seek their advice. The advice given, or fatwa issued, is not legally binding from an Australian law
perspective because Australian Muslims, like all Australians, are subject to the jurisdiction of government.
***
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Whether in Australia or Saudi Arabia, the Shari'a helps Muslims live their lives in ways that are deemed
legal, fulfilling and pleasing to their Maker. Contrary to the fear mongering discourse propagated by media
and politicians alike, the application of Islamic law in Australia is limited to personal status law only. Given
the nature of Australia's constitution and the absence of a plural legal system, aspects of Islamic law beyond
personal status law are exempted, because "God does not burden a soul with more than it can bear" (Qur'an
2:286).
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When conflict arises between Shari'a and Australian Law, and Shari'a law cannot be accommodated or causes
unnecessary hardship, then abiding by the law of the land becomes binding. Thus far, Australian law has
been, by and large, very accommodating to various demands of Shari'a personal status law, and therefore it
may be possible in the future that Australian courts will find "well-balanced" solutions which can maintain
the "two important goals of preserving the public order and fulfilling individual needs for legal 'difference'."
There are a number of areas of convergence between the higher objectives of Shari'a and Australian law, such
as the preservation of public interest. While, as Andrew March states, "Muslim thinkers both in and outside
of Western liberal democracies are engaged in a particularly vibrant process of first-order, abstract, ideal
interrogation of their religious commitments in light of the minority condition," specialists from both sides
need to work together on the more contentious aspects of Shari'a to facilitate its proper application within the
confines of Australian law.
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Mohamad Abdalla is the Founding Director of the Griffith Islamic Research Unit, Brisbane, and Director of
the Queensland node of the National Centre of Excellence for Islamic Studies. An expanded version of this
article will appear in the Griffith Law Review 21(3).
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Comments (28)
monika evers :
18 Jan 2015 4:24:05pm
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Australia can only be considered in a convenant relationship until that covenant is broken .
For example getting involved in the Middle East in 2014 meant that Australia was in effect killing Muslims
in Syria and Iraq thus breaking the covenant. All Muslims belong to the nation of Islam the Ummah first
and foremost. Our leaders were advised right in the beginning by the Islamic leadership of Australia. that
they would be raising the spectre of home grown terorism by supporting our allies and killing Muslims in
the Middle East,
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In the Koran is states that once a convenat relationship is violated the status then changes to dar al-Harb
("abode of war"). It is very clear about breaking of covenantal relationships. Hence why, since supporting
our allies we have now had multiple terrorist acts committed against the people of Australia and I am sure
many more to come.
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Kit Peters :
17 Jan 2015 2:08:50pm
I am a liberal in the non political sense. I believe in maximum tolerance .. let be be as they will, so long as
they do not harm or impinge the liberties of others.
I have tried to adopt an acceptance of Islam and Sharia.
I can not. The beliefs of ordinary, moderate Muslims are simply not compatible with our secular tolerance
and stand against what I believe. Islam should be banned for what it stands for and what it wants to achieve.
I want none of it in the country I live in.
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Ashish :
22 Sep 2014 11:47:41pm
Impressively thorough information. Believe in 'law of land' & for any multicultural country, strongly
believe that introduction of any different law will violate primary roots of being multicultural.
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Charis Gault :
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05 Nov 2013 5:38:59pm
Mr Abdalla's article is extremely thorough and clear, for which I commend him. However, as a nation I
believe that we must continue to stand firm against any requests from Islamic groups to introduce any
aspect of shari'a in Australia, as has been done in Britain.
I am not an Islamophobe, however as a feminist I must stand up against shari'a. If we follow the teachings
found in the hadith, men are allowed to beat their wives, men are allowed to 'request' intercourse at any
time other than menstruation (wives to comply), women are not allowed to inherit property, women are the
property of their family and then their husband after marriage, and a high premium on female chastity
relegates Muslim women to the home - or to be killed by the state or by family members if she's raped or
God forbid, she has sex before marriage. Not to mention the culturally acceptable practice of FGM which
stems from the premium on female chastity. Do we want this for our country? No.
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Karen Bos :
02 Aug 2013 8:34:36am
The European Court of Human Rights ruled that Sharia law is incompatible with democracy and
international human rights law, especially in its discrimination against women and its criminal law and
procedures (Refah Partisi vs Turkey 2003). Muslim nations adhere to the Sharia-compliant Cairo
Declaration (1990) which is not compatible with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other
conventions to which Australia is a signatory. There is a concerted and beguiling effort by erudite Islamic
academics and clerics to lubricate Sharia's insertion into Australia's legal system. ' Equality and inclusion'
of Muslim practices is but the first step in a well-defined strategy to securing supremacy and exclusion of
all others. It needs to be strongly resisted, for Sharia effectively deprives Muslim women of their full rights
as Australian citizens. Islam heavily discriminates against non-Muslims and women, and Islamic nations
have appalling human rights records. Westerners who are wooed/ seduced into compliance with Islamic
agendas should be aware that once married, a Muslim man can beat his wife with impunity.
Australian freedoms were paid for with the lives of 103,000 young servicemen. For the future of our nation,
we must do our utmost to ensure that nothing which threatens these freedoms be allowed to take root.
Please keep policy-makers informed of the inevitable consequences of any concessions to Sharia law.
Equality before the law of all people is foundational to democracy and freedom which must be defended
against those within our own society whose intention is to erode, and then destroy it. This is happening
incrementally in many Western nations.
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Jun :
07 Jul 2013 8:59:27pm
Sharia law is against apostasy, blaspheme (free speech) and other basic human rights. A child can be
forcefully converted by their parents (or default by birth) into Islam, and to marry a Muslim person, one is
forced to convert against their free will into the superstition. And once in, they are not allowed to leave the
religion.
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Stacey :
16 May 2013 3:56:10am
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I think many people are failing to miss the PRAISE M Abdulla has for Australian Law and allowing
Muslims to live their lives according to Sharia. He also points out that we need to work together to make
sure following Sharia doesn't break Australian laws and works alongside them.
BRAVO
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Cupcake :
GS :
01 Jul 2013 3:50:21pm
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The brutal anti-apostasy laws (especially of children being forced by
their family member to stay in the religion, or else) has not place in a
civilized society respecting of human rights and liberty. The same goes
for anti-blaspheme laws.
steve :
08 Jul 2013 5:02:40pm
A friend of mine who was brought up with Islam decided to be baptised as a christian.
The day after her baptism in Sydney she disappeared for months,kidnapped by uncles,
chained up and punished for her so called errors, she resurfaces in a Hospital Psyche ward
8 months later.
God gave us a free will,to think and do as we please, we have to choose to serve god,
utilising that free will and live a life that is pleasing to god not to the state of Islam with
its politico-religious laws such as dress codes etc. This is why in Australia, government
cant interfere with a way a person wants to follow their own religion, if people move to
this country and want to exercise that religious freedom then no government or religion
should judge that person. I am sceptical about Shari'a, More informed after reading this
article but still sceptical about a religion that doesnt allow the use of free will. It is god
given.
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Josh B :
15 May 2013 2:36:00pm
If you follow the Islamic religion and live by Sharia law then by all means you live that way and I as a
Secular Humanist and an Atheist, fully support your individual right to freedom of religion,
That does not exempt you from Australian law, nor do you have any right to demand that any other
individual, be it a family member, child, sibling, wife, a friend, a stranger or another follower of Islam, also
live by Sharia law, nor even recognize its self imposed importance.
Sharia law along with any other religious canon or law, has no place being enforced or seen as legitimate in
any civilized secular western society.
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Michael E :
12 May 2013 11:21:25am
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M Abdalla's convoluted argument about the place of Shari'a in the lives of Muslims living under Australian
law is based on an unstated and unsound premise: that religious identity trumps all other aspects of identity.
Identity is not so one dimensional. A person may be a son or daughter, a husband or wife, a parent, a highly
skilled professional, a poet, a member of a political party, an Australian, and a Muslim. Why should the last
identity trump all others when it comes to the law?
M Abdalla says he does not want to address the debate about legal pluralism, yet If religious identity really
was the central determinant of law, then all faiths, clubs, and associations might claim their own rule of
law.
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History shows us that religious leaders have frequently used the claim that they speak for god to justify
their worldly power . Such leaders say "follow not the desires of those who know not" (Sura 45:18) but
follow me, the one who knows, the one who has god on his side. Tyranny and strife are the usual outcome
of such claims.
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Ironically, a secular society offers the best prospect for various religious identities to jog along together,
more or less at peace, because none can claim to drive the law of the land.
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The "abode of Islam" on the other hand seems to be afflicted with strife and violent conflict driven by a war
between the Shia and Sunni with each claiming their own absolute version of the truth, the way, & the
Shari'a.
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I would modify Mr Costello's statement and say there is no place for Sharia laws in the laws of a secular
society like Australia, though Muslims, like those of other faiths, might inform their lives by the rules of
their faith in so far as they did not break Australian law.
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(I attempted to post a similar comment yesterday but got an error message.)
Stacey :
16 May 2013 3:36:51am
Michael. I think you missed an important point. Sharia is a lot more than penal codes, it is
a religious path. The way I live my daily life is in accordance with Sharia.
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What Dr Abdulla refers to is that as Muslims living in Australia we are alleviated from
practicing aspects of Sharia that contradict Australian Law as they will cause hardship
upon us.
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Hope that simplifies things for you.
Patrick :
12 May 2013 10:34:20am
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There are too problems with Sharia law especially in a secular democracy. No body of laws are
perfect,neither would Sharia law. Having Sharia law will bring it into conflict with Australian law. Let's not
just stop at Sharia as other group religious or non religious will have their right to have their own system.
This would not be possible nor desirable. As for Saudi Sharia law well straight away you have a system
which is appalling so leave out your fear mongering whinge. I note that a Muslim women's status is far less
than a man's. Any female Imam's on the horizon? Equal rights to men? All countries have their problems
and I'm very happy to openly criticise mine however most Islamic countries are not open to this (Saudi
Arabia, Iran,Taliban) . I doubt I could convince any of the current Sharia based theocracies to adopt a plural
system. By all means live one's life according to one's belief's but this must not be separationist as a Sharia
system would be. It can be hard to be self-critical. Islam is dealing with this very badly. When Apostasy is a
capital punishment under Sharia law then please go work on that before saying we need to facilitate its
proper application in Australia.
Stacey :
16 May 2013 3:52:45am
I think you need to re-read his article. He clearly states that living in Australia alleviates
many of our obligations to Sharia Law. That means not following the Sharia penal code.
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However Sharia is not just a Penal code. Sharia covers many aspects and if you read the
entire article you would know it also covers things like halal food, praying, fasting, and
charity. These things run side by side WITHIN Australian Law.
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As for your comment regarding Saudi Women. I am guessing you are referring to women
not driving. Yes that law is ridiculous to me. Is it a religious law. Highly unlikely.
In Islam, women and men hold the same value.
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Ibrahim :
16 May 2013 1:46:51pm
Please do not forget what the Quran says in this regard. And this can be
practised regardless of Australian laws.
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"Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them
to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the
support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in
secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear
rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge
them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is
ever High Exalted, Great." Quran, 4:34
Charis Gault :
05 Nov 2013 5:53:37pm
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Please explain how it would be possible for

Australian laws to coexist alongside Quranic
teachings i.e. shari'a law, if 'men are in charge of
women' (err, actually, in Australia, men and women
have equal rights, none is in charge of the other),
'good women are obedient' (see earlier point), and if
they are rebellious, 'scourge them' (it's against the law
to assault one's partner in Australia). Ergo, it's not
possible to practise Quranic teachings regardless of
Australian laws.
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Mohammad :
05 Sep 2014 10:09:14pm
Do you have any criticisms of Australian law?
All this focus on the fear of shari'a law and no focus on oppressive laws and
circumstances which are already in place. Eg. Debt based fiat currency and fractional
reserve banking posing obvious major concerns, martial law being imposed on a minority
group(indigenous Australians), unequal rights between indigenous Australians and
everyone else, countless examples of exploitation and deceit within the ruling class,
complete lack of honesty, transparency and credibility within politics, complete lack of
honesty, transparency and credibility within the media, the list goes on and on. Australia
has issues just like every other country, let's focus on them hey. Shari'a does not make
sense to a people who don't follow Islam so lets agree to disagree, seriously. On the topic
of human rights, the supposed 'anti-terror' legislation does not do Australian law any
justice but it's there. One day the 'threat' of militant terrorist bogie men created by the
corrupt media and fascist governing bodies of the world will be gone and that legislation
will still be in place with God only knows what else they can come up with affecting
ALL OF US. If your fear of shari'a and Islam means that you are complicit with
oppressive legislation being implemented then quite ironically you have failed your free
and democratic society.
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Andrew :
09 Feb 2015 1:04:48pm
We can agree to disagree all you like, the facts are we don't want what
islam is offering. Thanks but no
DanDare :
11 May 2013 9:57:35am
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Mr Abdalla,
thank you for a very interesting article. It will take me some time to digest as it raises a number of
interesting issues for me as an Australian secularist.
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May I ask for some comments about a particular incident where we have seen a clash? I refer to a recent
public presentation held at a university where people found themselves being segregated by their Islamic
hosts. http://theconversation.com/clash-of-principles-not-cultures-in-islamic-lecture-case-13774
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Such controversy is not unique, for example there was a similar incident in the UK recently
http://atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17582 and there have been previous one in
Australian universities.
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In such situations I can understand those of some Islamic faiths wishing to segregate themselves
voluntarily, but even that is problematic as it requires other non-muslim attendees to voluntarily honour the
segregation. However I'm sure such a thing could, albeit uneasily, be accommodated. But directing all
attendees to participate is simply not on. An event, open to the public, at a public institution does not come
under the rule of the event hosts, it remains in the public sphere.
Stacey :
16 May 2013 3:47:38am
I can help you understand that one. When I enter a lecture held by Islamic institutions I
often want to know which direction to go to be able to sit in the womens section. This is
why there are signs up directing us which path to follow in order to sit with other women.
The signs are only suggestions and so are the gestures by those putting on the lecture.
Segregation s hard to understand for someone who is not Muslim but as a Muslim woman
it provides me with many benefits. If you feel that no signs should be used to direct
people to a particular area, you may need to understand that Muslims will just ask staff. If
that is the case then this can cause delays and annoyance.
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Nonbeliever :
19 May 2013 8:32:17pm
Sorry Stacey, but you are gilding the lily, by attempting to pass off such
gender-based segregation as mere administrative convenience.
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I suggest you research the links provided by DanDare - it was quite

clear that the seating segregation was a non-negotiable directive from
the event organisers, not openly admitted prior to the (UK) event
despite requests for clarification, and enforced by university security. In
the UK, the university have already acknowledged that this was done in
error, and that there will be no similar gender segregation at any future
events at that institution.
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As a woman, you are of course free to choose to sit wherever you wish,
and with whomever you wish. Well, so am I. And any form of enforced
gender-segregated seating, while agreeable to some, impinges
unreasonably on everyone else's freedom to choose, and has no place in
a secular democratic society.
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There'll be no "delays and annoyance" - when someone asks event staff

"Where do the women sit?", it won't take to long to answer "Wherever
you like", will it?.
Cupcake :
16 May 2013 7:27:06pm
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Here's an interesting article about islamist gender segregation in UK univeristies, from

the non-tabloid 'The Independent' newspaper:
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http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/preaching-by-extremists-and-discriminationthrough-segregation-has-become-widespread-trend-at-uk-universities-equality-groupclaims-8613522.html
I think trends in Europe are worth watching as far as islam goes. Personally I think
gender and disabiltiy equity should trump freedom of religion.
Ibrahim :
10 May 2013 8:32:35pm
After that comprehensive statement, Dr Mohamad Abdalla, I do have just one question.
10
As a Muslim, which goal is preferable to you:
(a) a country compliant with sharia, where public atheism and homosexuality are penalised, or
15
(b) a country not governed by sharia but where people can freely reject or publicly disdain any ideas set
forth in the Quran, if they wish?
I will be most impressed if you can clarify that for me.
20
JimminyCricket :
10 May 2013 3:22:45pm
I think I'm pretty satisfied with most of the article. The only point of disagreement I had was in relation to..
"Muslim women being asked by the Australian government to remove their hijab (head scarf)"
25
My understanding is that nowhere in the Qur'an is face covering specifically required, rather, modesty is
strongly emphasised. If it is therefore not a specific religious requirement to wear a face covering of any
kind, then how can the Australian Government asking for it to be removed be an act against religious
freedom?
30
But let's assume it is a religious requirement; even then, the only times I have ever seen it brought up are
when somebody needed to be identified by a police officer, or when conducting business in a bank etc.
Surely it would be considered a hardship to fight against the government in these situations, which would
permit the quick taking off of the headscarf. If it is law to obey a police officer if he needs to identify you,
then it is law, and it must be followed.
35
Stacey :
16 May 2013 3:40:49am
Do not get confused between Hijab and Niqab. Hijab does not cover the face and is very
specifically referred to in certain Ayat and Hadith. Niqab is also quite strongly referred
to. Majority scholars view Hijab as compulsory whilst they view Niqab as favoured
(valued).
40
Most women have no problem removing niqabs. My friends remove them to eat their
lunch.
45
Hudson Godfrey :
10 May 2013 3:09:08pm
I don't see how you can stop anyone from following any set of rules that don't contravene the law of the
land. Whether it is the 12 step plan somebody got from AA, Canon Law set out by a Christian church or
indeed Sharia. But there is a correct order of things that allows for tolerance within a pluralist society.
p45
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46
We can't figure to have freedom of religion, including freedom from it, if we're going to make laws that
encroach too much on anyone's practices. But nor can people expect this society to maintain social order on
their behalf while choosing to completely disengage from the democratic process by which the laws we
make are made to reflect the wishes of the majority.
And by that I do mean that Muslims do have their work cut out for them to convince Australians that Sharia
has a place here.
10
Muslims may or may not be able convince the rest of us that members of their community genuinely of
their own free will prefer to assent to religious jurisdiction in some matters. But I guess they're not alone in
Australia in wanting to do so, the other example that comes to mind being Aboriginal communities.
I think there are some real structural challenges within Islam itself in terms of Muslims being able to say by
whose authority any limits of jurisdiction we might agree to are to be maintained. The problem as I
understand it being that each Imam operates virtually autonomously from any peak faith body even within
the various sects.
15
In the meantime as a minority I would expect Muslims to observe Sharia in accordance with whatever
religious authority they voluntarily assent to. A case has not been well enough made as far as I can see that
anything beyond that is really essential to the business of being a good Muslim who happens to live in
Australia.
20
Safudas :
10 May 2013 12:33:52pm
25
Good laws should be kept because they benefit the community, not because they benefit God(s).
If good laws are mentioned in a religious text, or indeed ORIGINATE from a religious text (of which there
are none), good for them.
Reply Alert moderator
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END QUOTE
QUOTE 17-3-2015 EMAIL
From: Mr Gerrit H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B.
To: healthachievers Cc: Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B.
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Gerrit, Yr recognise email and other:
Marg,
This Maureen E. Davis seems to want to have the best of both worlds.
She refers to treaties, but she doesnt indicate within which constitutional provision
allows for this. External Affairs is about external issues and not internal issues.
You cannot have so called self Determination for those claiming to be Aboriginals
(irrespective if they may just have migrated into the Commonwealth of Australia from
Asia or elsewhere) and yet demand equality with other Australians.
It is like having the cake and eat it.
The Framers of the Constitution held that for federal matters Aboriginals were equal as
to any other Australian.
The United Nations supported the con-job 1967 ss51(xxvi) referendum and this I view
because it was totally incompetent to understand/comprehend what the
Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (UK) actually stands for.
p46
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Here you have aboriginals (including those claiming to be Aboriginals regardless if they
are not) who demand equality, but hey that is what they had since federation but they
pursued and got in 1967 to be classified as a race and so can now be discriminated
against as a inferior coloured race.
10
15
Those who are promoting Recognise obviously havent learned from the 19677 conjob referendum and overlook that if this were to be put into the constitution it may
actually be used against them!
What if some Government indicates that the Constitution Recognised the Aboriginals
were the first people to live in Australia (cannot be the Commonwealth of Australia nor
Torres Strait Island or many other places) and therefore they are deemed inferior
because they were never one nation but had tribes with different languages and were
often murdering out each other, and therefore they are of a lesser standing and right
then ordinary Australians? The biggest mistake many are making is that they desire to
amend the constitution as to how they see it and forget that others may have their
hidden agenda and may support Aboriginals for precisely contradictive intentions then
those of Aboriginals.
20
The 1967 con-job referendum was supposed to fix it all and yet about 50 years later it
showed it never was. Look at the Northern Territory Intervention Act which I view is
unconstitutional, will you really hold that any future government would not find a way
to abuse its powers precisely opposite to what the constitution stands for?
25
Constitutionally every purported treaty with Aboriginals simply isnt worth the paper it
is written upon. All it takes is a politician in power who understands and comprehend
the true meaning and application of the constitution and Aboriginals may be worse of,
indeed far worse of then prior to the 1967 ss51(xxvi) referendum!
30
In my view this Maureen E. Davis hasnt got a clue what the true meaning and
application of the constitution is and is likely to cause more harm to Aboriginals in the
manner she is writing.
35
All those land rights cases have in the end not assisted man y Aboriginals who are still
living in squalor, etc, but have made some Aboriginals filthy rich. As such the
aboriginal cause is being hijacked by some Aboriginals who are only so to say selfinterested and couldnt give a darn about those Aboriginals who are needing help.
40
Consider the billions of dollars that have been poured in all kind of projects all for
aboriginals and yet look at the end result. It simply didnt fix the problems at all, other
than some people getting (again) filthy rich in the process.
45
This self-determination seems to be pursued that Aboriginals on the one hand are to
be equal as others, but when it comes to being on the dole they can deliberately stay
in an area where no employment is available and so live permanently of welfare. As
such, self-determination but still having the financial benefits but not the obligations
as other Australians in similar circumstances.
50
If Aboriginals desire to be part of the land and lived of the land then as like any other
Australian they can do so, however, if they desire to have the financial and other
benefits as Australians who have to work, pay taxes, or find a job.
55
What we need to do is to accept that any Australian regardless of race, colour, etc,
HAS THE SAME RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS AS THE ORIDNARY AUSTRALIAN.
Apply this rule and things will work out bar for the screamers who want to get quick
rich.
.
Gerrit
p47
18-3-2015
48
Constitutionalist & Consultant
10
15
MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL

Mr. G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B., GUARDIAN
(OFFICE-OF-THE-GUARDIAN)
107 Graham Road, Viewbank, 3084, Victoria, Australia
Ph (International) 61394577209
.
Email; inspector_rikati@yahoo.com.au
The content of this email and any attachments are provided WITHOUT PREJUDICE,
unless specifically otherwise stated.
If you find any typing/grammatical errors then I know you read it, all you now need to
do is to consider the content appropriately!
A FOOL IS A PERSON WHO DOESN'T ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE OF BEING
CONCERNED TO BE LABELLED A FOOL.
20
25
From: healthachievers - < healthachievers@hotmail.com>

To: Gerrit < inspector_rikati@yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, 17 March 2015, 13:45
Subject: Gerrit, Yr recognise email and other:
Dear Gerrit,
30
35
40
45
50
55
This was written by Maureen E. Davis, Face book page "Campaign for Aboriginal
Culture"
Further Gerrit, I am sure you are familiar with Brian Shaw's video "Australia
Government Act of Treason 1/4 - where he claims we have been taken over by the
United Nations via - Global Governance on 24 Oct 1999, before the 6 Nov 1999
republic referendum". How we go about fix the problems in Australia, than relying on
the UN. UN are already controlling our local councils
through International Council for Local Environment Initiatives.
Manningham Council has spent $3,000 to send the ICLEI councillor to a country in
Asia, for him to be taught about climate change and environment initiatives.
Reminder, Manningham pays an annual membership to an unelected body. So when
one adds all the other councils in Australia paying for memberships and sending their
representative - our taxes are frivolously wasted. Where as, one State representative
should attend and then pass their knowledge accordingly. Or in short, we do not need
to go to a foreign body to teach us how to fix our own back yard. Also, keep in mind
the membership monies spent on Municipal Association of Victoria, Victoria Local
Governance Association etc.... In fact, Municipal Association of Victoria is the one that
has been properly anointed in 1907 by an Act of Parliament with the Royal Assent.
The point I want to highlight, Australian people are relying on United Nations
to cure our human rights issues. Meetings I have attended regarding
Aboriginal Recognition - the speakers are teaching the attendees that the
Constitution is a dead piece of paper which no longer applies in the
contemporary Australia. Which brings to mind what Rob Hulls said to me
face to face, that he "could take out the Crown out of the Oath of Allegiance
out of the Legal Practices' Act because legislation allowed him to, and that
the UK don't have it". regards, Marg So now you can read what Maureen
had written:
p48
18-3-2015
49
Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and good
faith in the fulfilment of the obligations assumed by States in accordance with the
Charter,
10
15
Affirming that indigenous peoples are equal to all other peoples, while recognizing the
right of all peoples to be different, to consider themselves different, and to be
respected as such,
Affirming also that all peoples contribute to the diversity and richness of civilizations
and cultures, which constitute the common heritage of humankind,
Affirming further that all doctrines, policies and practices based on or advocating
superiority of peoples or individuals on the basis of national origin, racial, religious,
ethnic or cultural differences are racist, scientifically false, legally invalid, morally
condemnable and socially unjust,
Reaffirming also that indigenous peoples, in the exercise of their rights, should be free
from discrimination of any kind,
20
25
30
35
Concerned that indigenous peoples have suffered from historic injustices as a result of,
inter alia, their colonization and dispossession of their lands, territories and resources,
thus preventing them from exercising, in particular, their right to development in
accordance with their own needs and interests,
Recognizing the urgent need to respect and promote the inherent rights of indigenous
peoples which derive from their political, economic and social structures and from their
cultures, spiritual traditions, histories and philosophies, especially their rights to their
lands, territories and resources,
Further recognizing the urgent need to respect and promote the rights of indigenous
peoples affirmed in treaties, agreements and other constructive arrangements with
States,
Welcoming the fact that indigenous peoples are organizing themselves for political,
economic, social and cultural enhancement and in order to bring an end to all forms of
discrimination and oppression wherever they occur,
40
Convinced that control by indigenous peoples over developments affecting them and
their lands, territories and resources will enable them to maintain and strengthen their
institutions, cultures and traditions, and to promote their development in accordance
with their aspirations and needs,
45
Recognizing also that respect for indigenous knowledge, cultures and traditional
practices contributes to sustainable and equitable development and proper
management of the environment,
50
Emphasizing the contribution of the demilitarization of the lands and territories of

indigenous peoples to peace, economic and social progress and development,
understanding and friendly relations among nations and peoples of the world,
Recognizing in particular the right of indigenous families and communities to retain
shared responsibility for the upbringing, training, education and well-being of their
children, consistent with the rights of the child,
55
Considering that the rights affirmed in treaties, agreements and constructive

arrangements between States and indigenous peoples are, in some situations, matters
of international concern, interest, responsibility and character,
p49
18-3-2015
50
Considering also that treaties, agreements and other constructive arrangements, and
the relationship they represent, are the basis for a strengthened partnership between
indigenous peoples and States,
10
Acknowledging that the Charter of the United Nations, the International Covenant on
Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights as well as the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action, affirm the
fundamental importance of the right of self-determination of all peoples, by virtue of
which they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic,
social and cultural development,
Bearing in mind that nothing in this Declaration may be used to deny any peoples their
right of self-determination, exercised in conformity with international law,
15
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Convinced that the recognition of the rights of indigenous peoples in this Declaration
will enhance harmonious and cooperative relations between the State and indigenous
peoples, based on principles of justice, democracy, respect for human rights, nondiscrimination and good faith,
Encouraging States to comply with and effectively implement all their obligations as
they apply to indigenous peoples under international instruments, in particular those
related to human rights, in consultation and cooperation with the peoples concerned,
Emphasizing that the United Nations has an important and continuing role to play in
promoting and protecting the rights of indigenous peoples,
30
Believing that this Declaration is a further important step forward for the recognition,
promotion and protection of the rights and freedoms of indigenous peoples and in the
development of relevant activities of the United Nations system in this field,
35
Recognizing and reaffirming that indigenous individuals are entitled without

discrimination to all human rights recognized in international law, and that indigenous
peoples possess collective rights which are indispensable for their existence, wellbeing and integral development as peoples,
40
Recognizing also that the situation of indigenous peoples varies from region to region
and from country to country and that the significance of national and regional
particularities and various historical and cultural backgrounds should be taken into
consideration,
Solemnly proclaims the following United Nations Declaration on the Rights of
Indigenous Peoples as a standard of achievement to be pursued in a spirit of
partnership and mutual respect,
45
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READ MORE: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/un-declaration-rightsindigenous-peoples-1

UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples | Australian Human
Rights Commission
www.humanrights.gov.au
Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and good
faith in the fu...
END QUOTE 17-3-2015 EMAIL
What we have is a lot of people misconceiving and misunderstanding or totally ignorant as to

what the true meaning and application of the constitution stands for. And Robert Menzies in my
view is a prime example that he couldnt give a hood about the constitutional rights of political
p50
18-3-2015
51
opponents and used ASIO as a terrorist organisation to interfere with political opponents rights
as to stay in power in the process. Well if you admire Robert Menzies for this then we better be
very, very careful as to whatever you are saying as you are known to breach whatever you stated
in the past.
I urge you to respect the rule of law (the principle law being the constitution) and do not proceed
with data retention as I have set out above I have proven it in the end is only to interfere with the
rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens and has no real value.
10
15
Many peace loving Muslims who have assimilated within the Australian community in my view
would rather have that the government go after those facilitating radicalization of others rather
than to burden them. As I indicated in past correspondences where mosque are used for military
kind of purposes, governance and jihad then they can no longer be held to constitute a religious
purpose building and therefore it would in my view within Commonwealth powers to close down
those mosque without offending s116 of the constitution.
.
20

QUOTE
Mr. HIGGINS.-I did not say that it took place under this clause, and the honorable member is quite right in
saying that it took place under the next clause; but I am trying to point out that laws would be valid if
they had one motive, while they would be invalid if they had another motive.
END QUOTE
.
25
I look forwards to your detailed positive response.

This document is not intended and neither must be perceived to refer to all details/issues.
MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL

Our name is our motto!)
(
30
Awaiting your response,
G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O. W. B. (Friends call me Gerrit)
p51
18-3-2015

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1

iiNet 'allowed 100,000 dodgy downloads'

ABC October 6, 2009, 4:42 pm

And, let be clear about it I am doing absolutely nothing unlawful.

Consider the following also from below quoted email

Number Database (IPND) for the Approved Purposes; and

What kind of POLITICAL LIBERTY exist if anyone can check my records?

rushed through the Senate.

Our mailing address is:

The Influence of the House of Saud.

Professor Ian Plimer

Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament

The Europe you know is changing.

Striking gold with a hoard of lost property

Viewpoint: Why I loved Nemtsov

Delhi rapist says victim shouldn't have fought back

What people see instead of darkness

(image not included)

Jump media player

(Image not included)

Aimen Dean as a child

(image not included)

Collateral damage: Rescuing casualties of the Nairobi embassy bombing

Q: When you're actually working for the West?

Q: That's what al-Qaeda thought?

QUOTE 5-3-2015 EMAIL

----- Original Message ----From:

----- Forwarded message ----Date: Thursday, March 5, 2015

(Image not included)

(Image not included)

(Image not included)

The Washington Post

Mr. BARTON.-It ought to have an exclusive power to devise such laws.

British Broadcasting Corporation - Sep 2009

Please explain how it would be possible for

I suggest you research the links provided by DanDare - it was quite

There'll be no "delays and annoyance" - when someone asks event staff

Here's an interesting article about islamist gender segregation in UK univeristies, from

MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL

From: healthachievers - < healthachievers@hotmail.com>

Emphasizing the contribution of the demilitarization of the lands and territories of

Considering that the rights affirmed in treaties, agreements and constructive

Recognizing and reaffirming that indigenous individuals are entitled without

READ MORE: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/un-declaration-rightsindigenous-peoples-1

What we have is a lot of people misconceiving and misunderstanding or totally ignorant as to

HANSARD 8-2-1898 Constitution Convention Debates

I look forwards to your detailed positive response.

MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL

Awaiting your response,

G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O. W. B. (Friends call me Gerrit)

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