US v Shane Buczek hearing transcript - magistrate scolds Assistant US Attorney for harassing me | Bail | Judge

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X ) UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) vs. ) ) SHANE C. BUCZEK, ) Defendant. ) ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X 08-CR-54(WMS) 09-CR-121(WMS) 09-CR-141(WMS) Buffalo, New York August 20, 2009 1:47 p.m.

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE HONORABLE H. KENNETH SCHROEDER, JR. UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE KATHLEEN M. MEHLTRETTER, ESQ. Acting United States Attorney BY: GEORGE C. BURGASSER, ESQ. Assistant United States Attorney 138 Delaware Avenue Buffalo, New York 14202 MARIANNE MARIANO, ESQ. Federal Public Defender BY: BRIAN COMERFORD, ESQ. Assistant Federal Public Defender 300 Pearl Street, Suite 450 Buffalo, New York 14202 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant Scott Kawski, U. S. Probation Office Curtis Middlebrooks, U.S. Probation Office Llane M. Guidotti Christi A. Macri, FAPR, RMR, CRR, CRI Kenneth B. Keating Federal Building 100 State Street Rochester, New York 14614-0222

(Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording, transcript produced by computer).

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P R O C E E D I N G S * * *

(WHEREUPON, the defendant is present). THE CLERK: United States District Court for the Western

District of New York is now in session. The Honorable H. Kenneth Schroeder, Junior presiding. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Be seated please. THE CLERK: This is United States vs. Shane Buczek,

docket number 08-CR-54, docket number 09-CR-121, and docket number 09-CR-141. Today's proceeding is scheduled for a bail reviewing

For the Government, Assistant United States Attorney George Burgasser on behalf of Anthony Bruce. Assistant Federal Public Defender Brian Comerford is present with the defendant. And Scott Kawski is present for Probation. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Good afternoon. MR. COMERFORD: Good afternoon. MR. BURGASSER: Good afternoon, Your Honor. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: First order of business I want to address, Mr. Comerford, were you able to get any guidance on your being able to represent Mr. Buczek in 08-054? MR. COMERFORD: I am, Judge. I spoke with

Judge Skretny's chambers and he has no problem with my

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representing Mr. Buczek in this case. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. explained to Mr. Buczek your history? MR. COMERFORD: Judge, we haven't discussed that. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Let me just tell you, Mr. Buczek, that at one point in his legal career, his young legal career, Mr. Comerford was a law clerk with the Honorable William M. Skretny, the United States district judge to whom this case is assigned. He served in that capacity for a couple of years before And you've

moving over to the Public Defender's Office. He was in no way involved with any of your cases, but when the case in 08-CR-054 was initiated, he was still employed in Judge Skretny's chambers, but did not work on that case. So to be perfectly safe and have full transparency, we wanted everyone to be aware that Mr. Comerford was a law clerk for Judge Skretny when 08-CR-54 began. I trust that does not cause you any concern, Mr. Buczek? THE DEFENDANT: No, Judge. terms of that. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I'm not counseling you because I can't give you advice, but I will merely state for the record that I know of no legal impediment that would prevent Mr. Comerford from representing you based on the fact that he was not in any way involved in 08-CR-54 while he was Judge Skretny's law clerk. I respect your counsel in

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THE DEFENDANT: Okay. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right? THE DEFENDANT: Judge, I do have a question. I'm just

MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Maybe you ought to ask that question through your attorney Mr. Comerford. THE DEFENDANT: All right, I'll ask later. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No, no, put the question to Mr. Comerford so that -MR. COMERFORD: We're all set, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. want to ask, Mr. Comerford, or say? Address? We have completed the Anything you

MR. COMERFORD: No, Your Honor. financial affidavit. following court.

We went through it last time in the lockup

I still need to, I guess, execute the financial I just want to make sure there's no outstanding issues

with Mr. Buczek before we do that. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. MR. COMERFORD: Judge, I have a signed financial affidavit that I would like to bring up to the Court. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. Mr. Buczek, do

you agree to allow me to place you under oath and question you about your financial circumstances so that I can make a determination as to whether you qualify financially to have the

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Court continue with the assignment of the Public Defender's Office to represent you in these three cases, to wit, 08-CR-54, 09-CR-121, 09-CR-141? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. (WHEREUPON, the defendant was sworn). MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I show you a financial affidavit for one Shane Christopher Buczek and I ask you if that's your signature that appears in the lower right-hand corner of that document? THE DEFENDANT: Yes. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Did you review this financial affidavit before you signed it? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Were you able to review it and discuss it with Mr. Comerford of the Public Defender's Office before you signed it? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, we just did that. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Did you have any problems in reading the financial affidavit? THE DEFENDANT: No. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Did you have any problems in understanding what information was being requested of you in this financial affidavit? THE DEFENDANT: No, Judge. THE COURT: Do you swear that the contents of the

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financial affidavit are complete and true? THE DEFENDANT: Yes. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Now, you indicate that you are not employed, and that your last gainful employment was sometime in the end of 2008; is that correct? THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, right after Christmastime because that's when I got taken in for that psych evaluation. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Right, and I do know that you spent a substantial period of time -THE DEFENDANT: Right, and then I also tried to put a motion in for work release, and you know the outcome of that. I've been trying to -- diligently to try to work. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No, I understand. have any bank accounts anywhere? THE DEFENDANT: No, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Do you have any safety deposit boxes anywhere? THE DEFENDANT: No. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Do you own any stocks or bonds? THE DEFENDANT: No, but I do have a question. MR. COMERFORD: Judge, there is an issue with a bond that Mr. Buczek apparently sent to HSBC that is the content -- it deals with the issues in one of the indictments in this case. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: The bond that he claims he Do you So

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has an account on for $200 million dollars? MR. COMERFORD: I think this is something separate, Judge, but it's along -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: The one involving the Best Buy -MR. COMERFORD: Yeah. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: -- situation? All right,

the Court is aware of that by reason of the allegations made in the criminal complaint and thereafter in the indictment, and I will not treat that account as an asset for purposes of determining his financial circumstances. MR. COMERFORD: Thank you, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Do you own any real property, Mr. Buczek? THE DEFENDANT: No, Judge, just myself. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Do you have any lawsuits pending where you hope to collect money in the immediate future or the very near future? THE DEFENDANT: No, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. Based on the

contents of the financial affidavit, as well as the legal history that the Court is well aware of involving Mr. Buczek, starting with the proceedings in 08-CR-54, I find that the defendant's financial circumstances are such that he qualifies to have the Court assign counsel to represent him in all three cases and,

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therefore, I am formally assigning the Federal Public Defender's Office for that purpose in each of those three cases and ask Mr. Comerford to undertake that representation. MR. COMERFORD: I'll accept that, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Thank you. We're here today then on the bail violation petition. Are we ready to proceed? MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, we are. We have a couple

matters we would like to bring to the Court's attention before you again. I spoke with Mr. Comerford, I gave him a booklet/binder that's got Exhibits A through G, and I believe that we're going to agree those be entered in front of the Court. copy up to the Court. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. Are any of them And I'll hand a

different than what had previously been handed up to me? MR. BURGASSER: There are some different items, Your Honor. I thought it would be better to have, for the record, that

I marked each one. Basically, Your Honor, A through D are actually public filings, orders from the Court, violation reports, the order of the conditional release. Then E is a copy of what I believe was attached at one point to the supervised release violation, the initial documents that brought the proceeding that had been sent to the IRS to the

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attention of Deborah Shulen. F are documents that I showed to the Court, and I made copies of for Mr. Comerford at the last appearance, and these are documents that were initially sent to the Treasury Department, then they were forwarded on to the Bureau of Prisons, and then forwarded on to Mr. Bruce. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: By the Bureau of Prisons? MR. BURGASSER: By the Bureau of Prisons. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: So Mr. Buczek did not send them directly to Mr. Bruce? MR. BURGASSER: He sent these documents, Exhibit F, directly to the Treasury Department. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No, my question is then he did not send any documents -- at least those that you've identified so far -- directly to Mr. Bruce? MR. BURGASSER: No. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Another government agency did? MR. BURGASSER: Another government agency. to IRS, then to the Treasury Department. Then Exhibit G, Your Honor, let me just -- is a copy of a public domain filing cite, it's called the National Republic Registry, and the initial pages are just the website page; instructions on how to record; and then copies of what at this point the Government was able to find that have been, in fact, He sent them

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filed on that public registry. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Now, is this National Republic Registry a government agency? MR. BURGASSER: No, it's a public place for recording documents. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: You mean for storing documents? MR. BURGASSER: For -- you can -- well, they're there for the public to review. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: But it isn't what we recognize normally in the law as a recording receptor, is it? Like the Erie County Clerk's Office will record real estate documents, liens, that kind of thing, as will other municipalities, as well as the Federal Government, and the Clerk's Office. But this seems to be a repository; I suppose you can file photographs of your grandchildren if you wanted. MR. BURGASSER: Well, it says under 1521 it's a place where you can file for public record which is generally available to the public. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I understand, I understand. MR. BURGASSER: a government agency. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I understand. If I am so It's generally available. But it's not

very proud of my grandchildren, which I am, if I took it upon

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myself, I could want the world to see them, and I guess file photographs of them. MR. BURGASSER: Well, you'd probably be better using Facebook because this is actually recording fees by page. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Well, that would be my choice. My point is it's just a place anybody can file whatever

they want, right? MR. BURGASSER: Right. accept or not accept, Your Honor. I don't know what they would All I know is the second page

lists the type of things that they do, in fact, file. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Which you could do on a web page, a social network, YouTube or whatever else was out there these days? MR. BURGASSER: Again, this goes to part of the sovereign citizen argument, Your Honor, and that's why this particular place, I believe, is available. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right, I understand. MR. BURGASSER: Okay. Now, the other discussions we had

is I have the notary here available, Ms. Pavor, who took the notary of the defendant on numerous exhibits that are contained herein, and I believe there's no issue as to the fact that that is the notary, and I'll let Mr. Comerford speak to that so that we're clear. MR. COMERFORD: Judge, we don't have an issue with respect to that. And I've indicated that we'll -- if the Court

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will permit, stipulate that he did, in fact, mail these documents to the Treasury that were -- that are in question here. We're not contesting saying that he didn't do it, but we would like argument on whether it should be considered a violation of the conditions of his bail. MR. BURGASSER: Now, just as to Count 6, Your Honor, that has to do with the restrictions to his residence and what he's allowed to do. Again, Ms. Pavor is here and she would testify that as to the notarizations that took place during the months of July and August, that he came to her office. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: But he was allowed to leave the premises while acting in his own behalf as pro se attorney in these matters, and if he believed this was still part of his pro se attorney function, are you really asking me to say he's in violation of a term and condition of bail? MR. BURGASSER: I'm looking for that condition to see if it's worded that way. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Well, I said that -- I said that Mr. Buczek could do things that were necessary in representing himself in responding to the three indictments. I mean, he's got to be able to do what he thinks is necessary for him to defend himself, at least up to the point in time when he was representing himself. MR. BURGASSER: Well, in the past she was able to go to

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his house if he so requested. mailed.

It also seems he could have it I believe that

That's not in the order, Your Honor.

would have been included in the order or it would have had to have been -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Let me cut through this -and I'm not trying to prevent anybody from having their day in court or having any legal argument, but I have to say, with all due respect to the executive branch of the United States Government, notwithstanding the precipice of danger that we find ourselves in starting with 9/11, the economic crisis, what we still have going on in the world, health care, the fragilis of Government, the lack of respect of Government both by way of corruption as well as by way of waste, I'm having a very difficult time understanding why the United States Government is so intimidated and so paranoid and so perplexed over what is in front of me that it has gone to the point of taking up this Court's time, taking up the U.S. Attorney's Office's time, and even going to the grand jury in those two prior cases on so-called alleged bail violations. You know, if the U.S. Attorney's Office wants to do something constructive and valuable to the public and to the taxpayer, and they're concerned about filings and documents, I strongly urge, as I have in the past, that they set up a special unit over there to start pursuing the fraudulent financial affidavits that are filed, especially in the drug cases where we

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have people who haven't worked in ten years and are driving big, expensive cars and don't have any means of support, but yet the Government just seems to turn their head away. But we're going to spend a lot of time on what I have already described as a bunch of gibberish filed by Mr. Buczek. It

seems to me that it's somewhat vindictive and somewhat retaliatory on the part of a certain assistant U.S. Attorney in pursuing this. MR. BURGASSER: Who I hope is not -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: It's not you, Mr. Burgasser. It's not you, Mr. Burgasser. MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, if I could just address that? I actually do take interest in the one comment you just made about financial affidavits, and I would like to report that back to my superiors. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I wish you would because I have said that probably from about the second year I went on this bench. MR. BURGASSER: We have no disagreement there. But what I would like to say is I understand the Court's time, I understand the assistant United States Attorney's time, as well as our office's time, the time that's being taken up here -and I know how the initial charges were laid was due to the time that's being taken up by the Internal Revenue Service dealing with certain individuals, not just perhaps this defendant, but other individuals that are part of the sovereign citizen movement.

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It's kind of like if everybody in the world stole a nickel, it would be worth a lot. much. A nickel by itself doesn't mean

That's what's happening here in this case. Mr. Buczek -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: We have Mr. Madoff stealing

billions and the SEC didn't seem to be too concerned for ten years, so that's a poor analogy. MR. BURGASSER: The IRS -- and I've spoken to the IRS agents, the Inspector General's Office, and apparently there's quite a movement afoot that involves documents very similar to this throughout the United States. And but for the fact of a lot of motions that would have been brought here in these proceedings, certain fraudulent instruments and the continued filings in this court, perhaps less time would have been taken up. As far as what was happening in this case previously, as I told the Court before, you know, I'm aware of the additional counts that were added. I've taken a look at that since I was

here on Monday, and I'm here for the purpose of asking the Court to revoke bail and, obviously, that's the Court's final determination. I'm also here on behalf of the U.S. Attorney's Office asking for the Court to consider contempt under 3148(c). We're also moving under 3148(b) as to the possible federal crime, whether it be contempt or underneath 1521 of

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Title 18, that there's a rebuttable presumption as to combination of conditions that could actually be utilized in this case to release the defendant again. It seems that no matter what is put in place, he violates what's been asked to simply be done by the Court so the defendant can remain at large, that he can stay at his house, that he can participate with his family. to follow. In reference to even these documents that were recently sent, all he had to do pursuant to the Court's order was approach Pretrial Services, which then could have either said yay or nay, there could have been a court proceeding, and the Court could have made a decision. Unfortunately, he contacted the Clerk's Office directly, and I believe he put that on the record the other day. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Well, but I had told Mr. Buczek that if he was going to file things, they would have to be filed in the Clerk's Office when he was representing himself. MR. BURGASSER: Right. though. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I know, but to make a statement that he did something wrong by contacting the Clerk's Office -MR. BURGASSER: No, I'm following through on the thought These were not filed there The conditions are not hard

about these documents where I know he contacted the Court as

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well and was under the impression -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: About whether he could

communicate -- whether he could communicate with the Department of Treasury and the Department of Commerce. MR. BURGASSER: But if, in fact, he was going to contact the Internal Revenue Service, he needed to submit the document at least two days beforehand to Pretrial Services. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: The IRS is part of the Department of Treasury. MR. BURGASSER: Right, and he did contact them. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: And I had told him if he had something involving his tax account, his tax situation, I said as a citizen of the United States and under the First Amendment, he was free to contact the Department of Treasury. MR. BURGASSER: Correct, but these documents do not deal with his -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I understand that, and I pointed that out at our last session. MR. BURGASSER: You did, Your Honor. hear what the Court has to say. It's the Government's position I believe the documents speak for themselves. of the counts. As far as him going to Ms. Pavor's office, that's not part of the order and conditions of release. And if I'm We're relying on the presumption as to some And, you know, I

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incorrect, I'm sure the Court would be more familiar with it than I am, as would Mr. Kawski, but in reviewing the record, I did not see that. The other conditions all fall in reference to the direct orders that were made by the Court. Count 1, you know, dealing

with his attempt to file these liens; you know, the second one, again, dealing with 401.3; the third one being the attempted threat or attempted intimidation, which I prefer to phrase it as opposed to actual intimidation; the filing is Count 4; 5 is the subject should not communicate with any government agency unless filed through the District Court's Clerk's Office -- this was not filed through the District Court's Clerk's Office; and 6, the nature of his home confinement, which in this instance does not fall within the purview of the order. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: But all of those were in the context of involving the three indictments. I had no authority --

I don't think any -- I don't think a district judge would have authority to enjoin a citizen of the United States from seeking redress from any branch of government so long as it's done in a peaceful way or a lawful way or to communicate with representatives of his government about problems he is having with his taxes or with his personal life. MR. BURGASSER: But the Court in a very restrained way -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: My orders were all in the context of filings as they related to the three indictments.

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MR. BURGASSER: But the Court in a very restrained way told him how he needed to contact government agencies, and the fact it had to be reviewed by Pretrial Services and that it had to be filed through the District Court's Clerk's Office. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: But he did, and then he contacted the Clerk's Office, and the Clerk's Office said you better clear that with Judge Schroeder's chambers, and then he called my chambers. He went through that process, and now the Government's saying he should never have done that. MR. BURGASSER: He did not file with the District Court's Clerk's Office and he did not contact Mr. Kawski. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No, I said he -- I'm going to get to that one because that's another burr that is under the saddle for the moment. He contacted Jean Marie McCarthy in the Clerk's Office, he called her about what he could do with some of these documents. She told him she could not give him an answer, that he should contact my chambers. deputy clerk. The message was conveyed to me that Mr. Buczek had requested permission to file certain documents involving his taxes with the Department of the Treasury, and also some documents regarding something -- I thought it was something to do with business affairs, Department of Commerce. He contacted my chambers and talked to my

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I said as far as I'm concerned, he's a citizen of the United States, he has First Amendment rights, if that's what it relates to, he has every right to do that. with the three indictments. Now, admittedly, as I myself pointed out at the last appearance, some of those documents seem to not be in the format or in the subject matter as I thought they were going to be when I gave that permission; they do seem to reflect or have some bearing or some relationship to the three indictments, and so perhaps in that context Mr. Buczek did cross the line. But other than that, I never said he couldn't contact anybody in the Clerk's Office or that he couldn't contact a government agency about issues that were in no way related to the three indictments. I don't think I had the power to do that, so It has nothing to do

long as he was doing it in a lawful manner. MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, not to, you know, redress actually what you said as far as whether you had the power to or not, but on page 3 of 4 -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Well, the power of essentially the Constitution of the United States guarantees citizens the right to redress their government, as well as the right to express their views under the First Amendment. MR. BURGASSER: And I believe that's why in the amended court order setting conditions of release, which is Exhibit C, double C, it actually did say the defendant not have any

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communication in any form with any government agencies. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: In the context of these three indictments. Mr. Bruce was all upset about how he was

communicating terrible things as it related to the three indictments. MR. BURGASSER: But also when we go to the order adding a condition of release, again, I didn't think the Court was being very fair both to the Government, as well as to Shane, by setting up a way that he could contact even the Internal Revenue Service or the Treasury Department, but it had to do with a specific format. And in one sense if there was going to be a telephone call or some other form of contact, there needed to be one day notice; if it's going to be something written or something that was going to be filed or mailed to them, there was supposed to be two day notice so it could be reviewed by Pretrial. If Pretrial

agreed with it, it could go; if not, it could be brought to the Court and the Court would make a ruling on it. And, obviously, that didn't occur in this case. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. Now, let me I,

address the other issue with respect to Pretrial Services. quite frankly, am -- I won't even say somewhat.

I, quite frankly,

am disturbed about the way this whole thing generated. We have a simple alleged bail violation. If Mr. Bruce

really was concerned about the bail violation, as we do in

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practically all cases, the Government merely needs to file a motion with an affidavit saying we believe that the defendant is in violation of terms and conditions of bail and we're moving to have his bail revoked. I have some real serious problems with Mr. Bruce unilaterally communicating with the Pretrial Services Unit of the United States Probation Office, which is there to serve the Court, not the U.S. Attorney's Office, having these conversations. And I'm not sure what it is Mr. Bruce told Mr. Kawski, but I will say to you in all candor that I am of the opinion that Mr. Bruce may have even mislead Mr. Kawski as to the seriousness of this violation or the content of what these documents were that constituted a violation to the point that he got Mr. Kawski to request an arrest warrant. And then Mr. Bruce doesn't go to me, he doesn't go to Judge Skretny, he ends up in front of the chief judge of the district and gets that arrest warrant. In the past, in much more serious cases, including serious drug cases, people have been brought in on a summons when there's a claim of a bail violation. And when I look at the totality of the circumstances in these three indictments, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion -without making a formal legal finding -- that Mr. Bruce is bent on a path of vindictiveness and retaliation against this defendant. He reminds me -- and my memory doesn't serve me well

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enough to pull up the name -- but he is the inspector from Les Miserables who would spend 20 years chasing the man who stole a loaf of bread because he was starving. Doesn't the United States Attorney's Office have more important things to do? Crime running rampant out there, young

kids blowing their heads off every day, the drug scene out there just outrageous, innocent people can't even drive down the streets without being shot at, and here we're spending this time on this ridiculous nonsense. MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, just one thing as to what you said. It's my understanding -- and this is hearsay from

Mr. Bruce -- he advised me that he did contact your chambers and was told that there were no matters pending before -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: There weren't. motions had been decided. MR. BURGASSER: And they were told they should go to the district court. It's my understanding, from Mr. Bruce again, that All my

Judge Skretny was not available -- I don't know if Judge Skretny was available or not available, but that's how it ended up in front of Judge Arcara. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Oh, I know that. My point

is why didn't he just file a motion saying it's the Government's position that Mr. Buczek is in violation of bail, we're moving to have his bail revoked, instead of going and getting Mr. Kawski involved, getting the Probation Office involved and getting an

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arrest warrant? motion.

We could have brought this all here on the

MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, obviously, I don't have an answer for that. I wasn't involved there -I know you weren't.

MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER:

MR. BURGASSER: -- I was asked by Ms. Mehltretter and Mr. Bruce to come and handle the revocation. that concern back. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I am afraid it won't do any good. MR. BURGASSER: Well, I'll still carry that concern back. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No, I understand because what happened after the last alleged bail violation is Mr. Bruce ran to a grand jury and we have one of the indictments charging -which is another unheard of thing in this district, going to a grand jury on a bail violation of this nature. MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, as I said at the beginning, you know, we're looking at one defendant. I think, again, on Again, I'll carry

behalf of the Internal Revenue Service that are our office is representing, that this has been an ongoing problem. I believe that I have the agent here who, if you would like to speak to her, put her under oath, she would be willing to address the reasons behind Mr. Buczek, the amounts of paperwork and liens and other documents -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: If that same effort would be

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utilized to go after the millionaires in this country who dodge our taxes, who have hidden accounts in Switzerland, who have all kinds of underground income, we wouldn't have the deficits we have. MR. BURGASSER: Well, I believe they're attempting to do the Swiss bank accounts. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Well, they seem to be taking an awful long time to even get the ball rolling. So don't tell me

about them spending a lot of time and hours on this kind of a case. MR. BURGASSER: Well, the amount of documents that are filed by this group, sovereign citizens -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: That's something different. We're dealing with an individual, Mr. Buczek. This is an organization that's in existence throughout the United States. If the IRS has concerns about a national

organization, they certainly have the tools and the manpower and the muscle in Washington, D.C. to do what needs to be done, but not picking on one individual in Buffalo, New York is going to resolve the problems with this national organization, and to say otherwise would be an insult to my intelligence. MR. BURGASSER: I won't insult your intelligence, Your Honor, but we are concerned -MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: So no one gets the wrong idea that I'm some left-wing liberal who has gone amuck, as you

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well know, I worked in the Department of Justice, I was the United States Attorney for the Western District of New York, I do know how government works and I know what government is about and I know what government's obligations are to serve the people. MR. BURGASSER: I'm not arguing that point to the Court, Your Honor. All I'm saying is that the IRS is an agency that we represent, there's a concern about Mr. Buczek, there's a concern about the filings that have been made. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I didn't realize they were so fragile. MR. BURGASSER: As far as what Mr. Bruce might be thinking or what Mr. Bruce is doing, this is Mr. Bruce's case. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I know. responsible for anything that Mr. Bruce did. MR. BURGASSER: You know, looking on the face of the paper, there's obviously, you know, in this AUSA's opinion, there's a violation. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. I understand. I'm not holding you

Mr. Comerford, do you feel the need to say anything? MR. COMERFORD: Judge, I was prepared to. But I will be If the

asking that bail be continued on the same conditions.

Court doesn't need to hear anymore, I won't take up more of the Court's time. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right, I think that's a

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wise decision. I'm not going to revoke the bail, but I am going to add or modify existing conditions. Mr. Buczek, from here on in you

are not to communicate in any way with any government agency, or government body, or government entity, or government representative -- be it federal, state or local. That if you feel that you need to communicate or send some form of message or information or communication to any governmental body, agency, representative -- be it federal, state or local -- you must present that to your attorney Mr. Comerford, and Mr. Comerford is authorized to exercise his legal training and authority to determine whether that is the type of communication that should be communicated to whomever you think it should be communicated. But that if Mr. Comerford, as an officer of the court in keeping with his ethical obligations, were to -- is to determine that it is not something that has sufficient merit to warrant passing on or communicating on to whomever you wish to communicate with, he is empowered and authorized by me to reject forwarding that on. Do you understand that? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. So there is now

no requirement for you to have to do anything other than talk to your attorney.

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Do you understand? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: You are not to call the Clerk's Office, you are not to call my chambers, you are not to call the U.S. Attorney's Office, you are not to call anybody other than your attorney. Or if you are directed to call to report on

whatever reporting basis the Probation Office says, then obviously you must obey that. Otherwise, no communications by you, directly or indirectly, other than with your attorney with any government agency, entity, or representative. THE DEFENDANT: What about Probation? MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Other than what Probation tells you you must do. Obviously, if Probation tells you you are

to call every Monday or every Thursday or whatever it is they tell you to do, then you obey that. But if Probation has not told you to do something, you are not to be calling to Probation. If there's something you

think needs to be brought to Probation's attention, you do it through your attorney Mr. Comerford. Do you understand? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: All right. EMS home confinement? MR. COMERFORD: Yes, 24-hour lock down. Now, he is on

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MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: That will continue. will stay at your home. THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

You

MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: If you need to communicate on legal matters, you can do that with your attorney Mr. Comerford. Do you understand? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Okay. MR. COMERFORD: He can come into my office to do so,

MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: If there is to be an attorney conferencing, he must make that known to the Probation Office first. You must advise the Probation Office the date and the time for the legal counsel conference, and the Probation Office will then set parameters for when you can leave the home to give you sufficient travel time to Mr. Comerford's office and when you must be back in your home. Do you understand? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: And that approval must first be obtained before you even step one foot out the door. Do you understand? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

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MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, so the Government's clear, the Court finds that there was a violation but, in fact, instead of revoking bail is modifying the conditions of bail, having found that there are conditions or combination of conditions that would allow his release? MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: No. I'm finding that I'm

not satisfied that there was a violation that arose to the level of an intentional one based on my discussions with Mr. Buczek, having heard Mr. Buczek and having, once again, heard his thinkings, his thought processes, items that have previously caused this Court to conclude sua sponte that there should be a psychological evaluation, when I consider all those circumstances and history, I am not about to find that there was a violation intentionally caused by the filing of these documents, which I will once again describe -- and I don't mean this in an insulting way to you, Mr. Buczek, I mean it so that somebody who reads this record will understand why I, as the Court, am somewhat exasperated with the expenditure of time that has been utilized -when anybody with an ounce of sense would look at this material that was filed and say it's a bunch of nonsense, it's a bunch of gibberish and it's not about to bring down the Government of the United States. That's my finding. MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, I have been requested by my office that if he was to be released, we would be requesting a

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stay to appeal it to the district court judge. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: I'm not going to grant the stay. That's denied. He's in home confinement. It's not like

he's going to flee. Anything else? MR. COMERFORD: No, Your Honor. MAGISTRATE JUDGE SCHROEDER: Thank you.

MR. BURGASSER: Thank you, Judge. (WHEREUPON, the proceedings adjourned at 2:47 p.m.) * * *

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER

I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript to the best of my ability from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter.

S/ Christi A. Macri Christi A. Macri, FAPR-RMR-CRR-CRI

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