preguntas foro CFD

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preguntas foro CFD

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by SATTER NATHAN - sbado, 7 febrero 2015, 12:42

Hello Professor,

I am having difficulty understanding how to deal with integrating the final (viscous) term in the xmomentum equation.

First of all I am confused as to why this is a volume integral. In Chapter 3, equations 4.2 and 4.3 the

viscous term is a surface integral. So why in this case is it a volume integral?

Secondly, if it is in fact a volume integral I assume it should be integrated as Integral(viscous terms)

dAdx . But if you integrate the terms in this manner you end up with an algebraic mess and dimensional

inconsistency since the perimeter in terms of area is PERIM = SQRT(4 pi A).

Thanks,

Nathan

Reply

by LAZARO GOMEZ BENIGNO - domingo, 8 febrero 2015, 1:47

Hi Nathan,

Originally the tau_w it is a surface term, but extended to the wall surface. For a control volume placed

between x=x-delta_x/2 and x=x+delta_x/2 it will be the integral of the wall shear stress tau_w

multiplied by the wall area of the control volume. This wall area is the duct's wall perimeter PI times

delta_x. But if we multiply and divide this by the duct's cross section A we get tau_w*PI/A times

A*delta_x. But A*delta_x is the control volume, so in the the original integral formulation we can write

this term as tau_w*PI/A times dV and extended to all the control volume.

On the other hand the viscous term in chapter 3 was acting over the control surface at a given x

location, giving a viscous or diffusion flux. The difference here is that the tau_w is acting only at the

wall, not across the fluid surface at a specific location. As I mentioned above, the tau_w acting on the

wall is really a surface force on the wall, but for the one-dimensional control volume we are using we can

convert it into a volume term.

You end up with integral(tau_w*PI/A*dV), with PI being the perimeter. When you apply the integral

conservation equation to the control volume between x-delta_x/2 and x+delta_x/2 this term should give

((tau_w*PI/A)_x)*A*delta_x= ((tau_w*PI)_x)*delta_x, with (...)_x meaning magnitudes evaluated at x.

In the limit process to get the differential equation you have to divide by delta_x, so finally you get for

this term tau_w*PI, where PI is a known function of A(x). When you integrate the differential equation

to get the pressure distribution, for a generic area law, you have to leave the pressure field solution as a

function of an integral that involves A(x). Then, for the specific area law suggested in the exercise

(linear), you can evaluate the integral and get an analytic solution for the pressure field.

Best regards,

Benigno

by PITA TORRENTE JAIME - martes, 3 febrero 2015, 8:50

Dear professors,

When simplifying the momentum equation to reach P(x) adimensionalized with Pref at the middle and

rho*U0^2, I get an expression with Lroot(A0)...

You are giving us the data of L/root(A0). I double checked my calculations and still getting Lroot(A0).

Is there any chance that this data is incorrect?

Thanks

Professor-to-student forum -> Final - integration conditions -> Re: Final - integration

conditions

by LAZARO GOMEZ BENIGNO - mircoles, 4 febrero 2015, 10:51

Hello Jaime,

The exercise asks for the non-dimensional pressure (P - P_ref)/(0.5*rho*U_0^2) with P_ref being the

pressure at the middle of the duct. This is a non-dimensional magnitude since it is a pressure difference

divided by a dynamic pressure. It cannot be a function of L*root(A0) because this magnitude has

dimensions of L^2. It should depend on L/root(A0) which is also non-dimensional. The expression that

you are getting could not be possibly correct from the dimensional point of view.

Best regards,

Benigno

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See this post in context

by CORTES CARBONELL GUILLEM JOSEP - domingo, 1 febrero 2015, 7:08

Dear Professor,

I'm doing exercise 2.2 of the final test, and I've got an expression similar to the one given in equation

5.131 of the theory, but with a different sign. In my equation the term nu*(dU/dy) has opossite sign.

I'm trying to find my error but I don't find it. Is maybe possible that equation 5.131 has a wrong sign?

Professor-to-student forum -> error in equation 5.131? -> Re: error in equation 5.131?

by LAZARO GOMEZ BENIGNO - domingo, 1 febrero 2015, 10:22

Hi Guillem,

It is possible that in your equation that term has a different sign, because in 5.131 the y coordinate is

defined going downwards, from the wall towards the pipe axis (y=D/2-r), so that y=0 is the pipe wall

(r=D/2) and y=D/2 is the pipe axis (r=0), whereas in the channel flow the y coordinate goes upwards,

from the channel plane of symmetry towards the wall.

Best regards,

Benigno

by CORTES CARBONELL GUILLEM JOSEP - domingo, 1 febrero 2015, 12:41

Dear Professor,

I have a doubt in Exercise 1 of the Final test. Section 1 I think is clear, since I've got the different form

of the equations. My doubt is in section 2. In order to get the expression of the non-dimensional velocity

I have used the continuity equation, and I think it is right. In order to obtain the non-dimensinoal

pressure, I guess I have to integrate the differential form of the x-momentum equation. I'm integrating

it along x direction, but then I don't how to intengrate the term of the Darcy-Weisbach coefficient, since

it gives a complex expression as a function of A.

On the other way, I'm not sure if it is correct to integrate the differential form obtained in 1) or if I

should start with the given integral equation at the proglem statement.

I would appreciate if you can help me because I can't proceed with the rest of the exercise wihout

solving section 2.

Thank you very much for your attention.

Guillem

Professor-to-student forum -> Doubt in Exercise 1 Final test -> Re: Doubt in Exercise 1 Final

test

by LAZARO GOMEZ BENIGNO - domingo, 1 febrero 2015, 1:14

Hi Guillem,

You are right on the velocity integration, which becomes a function of A(x) and you have to leave it that

way for a generic area law. The D-W term in the momentum equation is then also a function of A(x).

When you integrate the equation, for a generic area law, you have to leave it as an integral, but with

proper integration limits, consistent with the rest of the equation. Formally this is the result for a generic

area law, since A(x) is supposed to be a known expression. Later the exercise tells to particularize for a

specific area law (linear with x). In that case you can perform the integral and leave it as a function of

beta and the other parameters of the problem. Then, for specific values of these parameters, as it is also

asked, you can plot the pressure distribution.

Best regards,

Benigno

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