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Republic of the Philippines

CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES


SENATE
Pasay City
COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT
JOINT WITH THE
COMMITTEES ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND
RECONCILIATION; AND CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS
AND REVISION OF CODES
DATE

Monday, April 13, 2015

TIME

10:00 a.m.

VENUE

Sen. Claro M. Recto and Sen. Jose P. Laurel Rooms


2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City

AGENDA

SBN 2408 - Ceasefire Mechanism of the


Bangsamoro Basic Law (By: Sens. Drilon,
Sotto, Legarda, Recto, Binay, Escudero,
Aquino, Angara, Cayetano (P.), Honasan
and Guingona)

ATTENDANCE
SENATORS PRESENT:
Hon. Ferdinand Bongbong Marcos Jr. Chairman, Committee
on Constitutional Amendments and
Revision of Codes
Hon. Teofisto TG L. Guingona III
Chairman, Committee on Peace,
Unification and Reconciliation
Hon. Ma. Lourdes Nancy S. Binay
- Member
Hon. Vicente C. Sotto III
- Member
Hon. Paolo Benigno Bam Aquino
- Member
Hon. Francis G. Escudero
- Member

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Monday, April 13, 2015
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GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
Hon. Teresita Quintos-Deles

Mr. Neil Simon Silva

Mr. Mohagher Iqbal

Prof. Miriam Coronel-Ferrer

Datu Abul Khayr Alonto

Atty. Akmad Sakkam


Mr. Rashid Ladiasan

MGen Dato Sheikh Moksin Bin


Sheikh Hassan
BGeneral Carlito Galvez Jr.
BGeneral Manolito Orense

General Gregorio Pio P. Catapang Jr.MGeneral Edmundo R. Pangilinan

LGeneral Rustico O. Guerrero

Major Carlos Sol


PC/Supt. Jose Erwin Villacorte
Mr. Erik Forner
Mr. William J. Hovland
Mr. Aizzudin Bin Arrifin

Presidential Adviser on the


Peace Process
Assistant Secretary,
Department of Justice (DOJ)
Chairman, Bangsamoro
Transition Commission (BTC)
Chairperson, Government
Peace Negotiating Panel for
Talks with the MILF
Chairman, Moro National
Liberation Front (MNLF) Central
Committee
Vice Chairman, BTC
Chairperson, MILF Coordinating
Committee on the Cessation of
Hostilities (CCCH)
Head of Mission, International
Monitoring Team (IMT)
Chairperson, GPH-CCCH
Chairperson, GPH-Ad Hoc Joint
Action Group
Chief of Staff, Armed Forces of
the Philippines (AFP)
Commander 6th Infantry
Division, Philippine Army
Commander, Western
Mindanao Command, AFP
Secretariat Head GPH-CCCH
CIDG-PNP
Ambassador of Norway
Chief Operations Officer, IMT
Head Coordinator, Civilian
Protection Component, IMT

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UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION; AND CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS AND
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Monday, April 13, 2015
Page 3 of 4

SENATORS STAFF:
Mr. Juan Baras
Ms. Ma. Clarissa Lopez
Mr. Alcones Franklin Paul
Ms. Vina Panus
Ms. Margie Manlunas
Mr. Hutch M. Altavas
Ms. Andrea Gomez
Mr. Rosk Costuna
Ms. Kathleen Sonza
Mr. Mark Gamboa
Ms. Charlotte Franco
Mr. Dominic Lacbayo
Ms. Zheanne Aeson Dantis
Ms. Patty Taga
Mr. Sam Fernandez

- O/S Marcos
- O/S Binay
- O/S Binay
- O/S Osmea III
- O/S Angara
- O/S Sotto
- O/S Sotto
- O/S Sotto
- O/S Sotto
- O/S Recto
- O/S Escudero
- O/S Legarda
- O/S P. Cayetano
- O/S A. Cayetano
- O/S A. Cayetano

SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Ms. Assumption Ingrid B. Reyes Ms. Cleofe P. Caturla
Ms. Helen S. Gayapa
Ms. Cindell B. Gealan
Ms. Christine M. Nery
Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz
Mr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr.
Ms. Nida A. Mancol
Ms. Maribel P. Mendoza
Ms. Ma. Emperatriz L. Novero
Ms. Susana Grace L. Robles
Mr. Rommel P. Alger
Ms. Norma G. Dizon
Ms. Mylene Palino
Mr. Jimmy Gaviola
Ms. Abigael Olson
Mr. Eric Jalandoon
Mr. Raul Balansag
Mr. Allan Laureano

Legislative Committee Secretary


Legislative Committee
Stenographer
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Legislative Page, OSAA
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Audio Operator

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Mr. Joey Busalpa

- do -

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

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AT 10:21 A.M., HON. FERDINAND R.


MARCOS JR., CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE
ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT, CALLED THE HEARING
TO ORDER.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Good morning, ladies and


gentlemen.
The Senate hearing of the Committee on Local Government joint
with the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation, and the
Committee on Constitutional Amendments and Revision of Codes of
Monday, 13 April 2015, is hereby called to order.
I would like to, first of all, recognize for the record the presence
of Senator Nancy Binay, Senator Chiz Escudero, and Senator Tito
Sotto.
Also, I would like to recognize for the record our resource
persons here this morning: Secretary Teresita Quintos-Deles; from the
Department of Justice, Assistant Secretary Neil Simon Silva; the
chairman of the Bangsamoro Transition Commission, the gentleman
that we have come to know as Mr. Mohagher Iqbal, together with Atty.
Akmad

Sakkam,

the

vice

chair

of

the

Bangsamoro

Transition

Commission; Professor Miriam Coronel-Ferrer, the chairperson of the


Government Peace Negotiating Panel; Lt. General Gregorio Catapang;
Maj. General Pangilinan, the commander of the 6th ID; Lt. General
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Rustico Guerrero, the commander of Western Mindanao Command of


the AFP; CIDG Police Chief Supt. Benjamin Magalong is represented by
Police Chief Supt. Jose Erwin Villacorte, CIDG-PNP; Brig. General
Galvez of the GPH-CCCH; Major Sol, the Secretariat head of the GPHCCCH; Brig. General Manolito Orense, chairperson for the GPH-AHJAG;
Mr. Rashid Ladiasan, chairperson of the MILF-CCCH; and from the
International Monitoring Team, Mr. William Hovland, who is the chief
operations officer of the International Monitoring Team; and the head
coordinator of the Civilian Protection Component of the International
Monitoring Team, Mr. Aizuddin Bin Arrifin; also with us is the chairman
of the MNLF Central Committee, Ambassador Datu Abul Khayr Alonto;
His Excellency, the Ambassador of Norway, His Excellency Erik Forner.
I think that, at least, for now is the full list of our resource persons.
So, good morning, ladies and gentlemen and thank you for your
appearance here. This is the resumption of the hearings on the draft
Bangsamoro Basic law.
The agenda for today was to focus very clearly on the
mechanism that we used, that we have seen in Mamasapano and in
other encounters wherein a ceasefire is instituted and both sides
withdraw from further military action in case of an encounter.

The

reason that I have asked for these hearings is very simple, is that we

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were not able during the Mamasapano hearings to fully explore


precisely what the timing and the activities and the coordination and
the agreements that were made between the AHJAG Republic of the
Philippines and the CCCH Republic of the Philippines and the AHJAG
and CCCH of the MILF. There is some question as to when exactly the
process of instituting a ceasefire in Mamasapano, when it began and
where the events that eventually led to ceasefire, but very late already
at 4:00 p.m. of Sunday 25, January. So, that was our purpose here
today.
However, circumstances have intervened especially with the
revelation that the chairman of the Bangsamoro Transition Commission
and the head of the negotiating panel for the MILF, Mr. Mohagher Iqbal
has, in fact, been using an alias during all of his dealings with the
peace panel. And so, we would like perhaps to dispose of this issue
and see how much clarification we can get.
So, let me direct the first questions to Chairman Iqbal.
Chairman Iqbal, what is the truth exactly to what came out in the
House of Representatives hearing that Iqbal is not in fact your name?
MR. IQBAL. Its my nom de guerre.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yes, and I understand.

And the nom de guerre is generally recognized as used because during

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the time of war there were security concerns. And for somebody who
is a combatant, perhaps for the protection of himself and his family
and his associates, that it not be known to the opposition who exactly
what their identity is.

But, Mr. Iqbal, again, this calls into question

many things.
Number one, precisely, the signing of the ceasefire agreement
was the cessation of war. And besides, if the reasoning behind your
continuing use of your nom de guerre is for security purposes, you
have made public appearances, you are known by now by the entire
country.

So, what is the need for this continuing use?

And again,

there is a suspicion of deception why would you hide behind a nom de


guerre when you are signing a peace agreement with the government
and then you are negotiating a peace agreement with the government?
This is something that perhaps doesnt go so much to the legal
question of the use of a nom de guerre but also to the questions of
good faith on the part of the MILF. Why did the MILF feel the need to
present us with a negotiator who is unable to use his real name?
MR. IQBAL. I think I should give a very brief context of
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Well, go ahead, please.

Yes, please do.


MR. IQBAL. why we have this situation right now.

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First, starting a revolutionary struggle is a very difficult and very


dangerous enterprise that would require, first of all, not just the
security of the person involved, like myself but the cause that he or
she I espousing for. Otherwise, if youre not able really to succeed in
concealing our real identity not to deceive people but merely to protect
my person, to protect my family, to protect the struggle, then perhaps
I would not have been around today. And that is precisely why we use
nom de guerre, to protect myself, to protect my family, and to protect
the struggle. As I said, if I was harmed, I was killed, perhaps I would
not appear in this august body and I would not be the head of the MILF
negotiating panel.

Especially in our case, when we started our

revolutionary struggle in 1972, the situation was very hot. Many of my


families, my relatives were merely taken, arrested, incarcerated and in
jails for how many months, for how many weeks. So, that would give
enough reason for anyone in the Moro National Liberation Front
because we are still part of the Moro National Liberation Front really to
adopt

measures

that

would

ensure

that

their

security

is

not

compromised.
Secondly, my nom de guerre Mohagher Iqbal has been used as
early as Februarycpc

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MR. IQBAL. as early as February 1979.

Your Honor, I think

you are still very young at that time. The group of Salamat Hashim
was invited by your late father to talk about peace although the
meeting or the engagement was officially with the Moro National
Liberation Front. But anyhow, I think it was policy of government to
reach out to other groups who are also fighting the government. So,
there was an invitation by your late father to the MNLF new leadership
because at that time it was--the MILF now is known or was known as
new MNLF leadership.

So, your late father invited representative

from the new MNLF leadership and the new MNLF leadership under the
chairmanship
Malacaang

Salamat
and

that

Hashim
was

in

sent

three-man

February

1979.

delegation
One

of

to
the

representatives was former governor ... and then another one is a very
senior leader of the new MNLF leadership in the person of ... who is
another nom de guerre and then I was part of that delegation to
Malacaang.

So, in the document we signed, I used the name

Mohagher Iqbal.

I think that record is still available.

It can be

checked and I already used the word Mohagher Iqbal as my nom de


guerre.
And secondly, our engagement with the government of the
Republic of the Philippines, formal engagement, was in January 7,
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1997 when we were invited by the president of the Republic of the


Philippines, President Fidel Ramos, and that engagement was political.
It was a political engagement, not strictly speaking on the part of the
MILF as a legal engagement but it was a political engagement.

And

then when we faced our counterparts from the government, we carry


signed

documents,

signed

authority

coming

from

the

central

committee of the MILF and, of course, articulating the aspirations of


our people. Meaning, our mandate was covered by official document.
And then aside from that, how many presidents?

Already four

presidents, excluding your late father because there was no formal


engagement.

From President Fidel Ramos to Joseph Estrada, to

Arroyo, and then to Aquino.


questioned.

This nom de guerre has never been

And I think it is part of confidence-building that the

government of the Republic of the Philippines should treat the MILF as


it is, as a part of confidence-building.

Meaning, as partners in the

negotiation or peace process, and then I think it is not part of good


meeting or good arrangement that you suspect the other side.

So,

what has taken place is that the government of the Republic of the
Philippines had taken the MILF as it was or as it is and then we also
consider the government of the Republic of the Philippines as a
legitimate partner in peace process.
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So, in short, the use of a nom de guerre is normal in a


revolutionary organization.
And on the issue of the legal aspect of that, I am not a lawyer, I
cannot argue on that.

But mainly my statement here is about a

political engagement between the government and MILF and it should


be taken as that.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Chairman Iqbal,
but you see, you know, again on the question of security, that is
understandable when you are still under arms and fighting a war
against the government and that is understandable.

But as I have

mentioned, perhaps you could reconsider because the question of


security no longer applies as you are here, you are here before the
media of the entire nation.

I think that the question of security we

have gone beyond that and we are precisely in the process of peace
agreement and formalizing and institutionalizing those elements of that
peace agreement in the draft BBL.
Secondly, your point about confidence-building, I have to say
that it does not inspire confidence when I am negotiating with
somebody and I do not know what their real identity is. The effect of
using a nom de guerre during a negotiation is precisely contrary to
confidence-building. And then there are, of course, technical questions
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as to what your true identity is if you are in fact a Filipino, number


one.

How can we verify that if we are only talking about nom de

guerre?

You are the chairman of the Bangsamoro Transition

Commission upon the passage and the plebiscite of the BBL. And the
plebiscite subsequent to that, you will be the head of the government
of the Bangsamoro. So, immediately, the official documents, the funds
that will be entrusted to the transition commission will be under your
control.
So, again, the question of your identity is something that
becomes central. Although at this point, in a legal context, it is in fact,
I would say, maybe a tangential issue. But when we proceed further
along this process, it no longer is a tangential issue. So, that is why
there are concerns that have been made public by not only the
legislators but also in the general public and other commentators.
So, perhaps to clarify all of these, Mr. Iqbal, what is your true
name?
MR. IQBAL.

Can I first provide context on what you have

stated?
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

You may provide context

but please answer that question, what is your true name?

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MR. IQBAL. The government has known everything about me,


engaged in the government for 42 years. So, I think nothing can be
hidden from the government, they know it.

So, I think the

government should answer for that, not from me because, you know, I
will provide context. First, in our point of view, for other people who
understand where we are coming from and we also understand where
other people are coming from,

in the context of a revolutionary

struggle, the engagement between government and the MILF is, as I


said, is a political engagement. But before that, you know, the MILF is
a revolutionary struggle and as a revolutionary organization, we want
to achieve our objective through armed struggle, meaning, through the
use of arms. But in the course of times, then we have come to a point
that it is better to talk peace rather than to continue the war because
we know that we cannot defeat the government conventionally
because the government has all the materials: they have tanks, they
have airplanes, naval boats, etcetera, etcetera. So, we cannot defeat
the government in a conventional warfare. But in the same manner,
government cannot defeat us in a guerilla warfare because we can
always survive and it has been proven for 42 years that we are still
here so that better part of judgment for government and the MILF--

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I am sorry, Chairman, we


are wandering very far away from the question, very simple question.
MR. IQBAL. No, but I am providing, Your Honor, a context so
that-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And I think the person who
can finally verify your identity is you, not the government. So, again, I
ask the question, Sir, who are you? What is your name?
MR. IQBAL.

I am coming to that, Your Honor, if you would

permit me to continue very briefly only.


So, on that statement I said that it is better for both parties to
talk peace and that was the start why we started to talk peace in 1997.
And then, you know, the position of government is really from a
position of--strict position because, you know, in a negotiation, the
government and the MILF as in any other negotiation would start from
a position and from that position they will try to talk, they will try to
compromise, it is not about getting, it is not about giving but giving
and getting, and getting and giving until such time that we sign all the
documents, almost 100 documents already, Your Honor. And then the
most important documents that we signed are the framework
agreement on the Bangsamoro and the comprehensive agreement on
the Bangsamoro.

But those are political documents.

On the part of
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government, they cannot implement that except some parts of it. For
instance, normalization, government can implement that. But on the
other substantive issues, it cannot be implemented by government
because essentially their ... are instruments to establish.../hsg

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MR. IQBAL.

are instruments to establish a legal entity, a

political entity in Mindanao or somethingwhat Im referring is the


Bangsamoro

government.

So

government

necessarily

has

to

undertake a legal process and thats why the Bangsamoro Transition


Commission was constituted composed of representatives coming from
MILF, eight, and seven from government, then they crafted the
Bangsamoro Basic Law, and this is a legal document. Thats why my
appearance here is as chairman of the Bangsamoro Transition
Commission because if my appearance here is as official of the Moro
Islamic Liberation Front which is still a revolutionary organization, I
think I cannot appear here, Your Honor. But my appearance here is
precisely as member of the Bangsamoro Transition Commission so that
when the BBL would be passed by Congress hopefully, a good BBL will
pass Congress, and then it would be ratified by the people, it would be
implemented, that would be the time that everything will normalize
and we can disclose everything, our identities, we can disclose that.
But at this point in time, I request this honorable body not to compel
me to disclose my identity. But I still meet halfway. The government
knows my identity and perhaps its
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). In that case, can we turn to
Secretary Deles?
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Do you know the identity of the gentleman that is here before us


today?
MS. DELES. It is known by government, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Then what is it?

What is

the true name of the gentleman who is the chairman of the


Bangsamoro TransI do not even know what to call him anymore
because it is clear that this is an alias. The government should not
surely the government can share such an important information.
You know, again, in terms of legal issues, this is something that
at this point does not nullify any of the documents that Chairman Iqbal
has signed. But as we move forward, it will become an important issue
because there are questions as to his nationality, questions as to his
status, and exactly who he is. So if the government knows, will the
government share it with the Committee?
MS. DELES.

Your Honor, definitely as we move forward and

when the MILF already is fully participating in government, certainly by


that time all of the legal steps to ensure that everything is legal,
certainly Mr. Iqbal, if he were to run for office, would have already
legalized the name that he will be using.

But, Your Honor, it is the

Department of Foreign Affairs that received the evidence of his name


when the passport was issued, Your Honor.
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For the Office of the Presidential Adviser on the Peace Process as


had been recounted in the history, this started in 1997. Mr. Iqbal has
been signing all of the papers.

He has never disappeared.

He has

never been seen to commit any act that made us question that alias.
Mr. Iqbal has stood by everything that he has signed, and the MILF
stands by Mr. Iqbal and everything that he has signed.

When this

administration took over and the talks were resumed, we received a


certification of all of their panel members and team members and the
chair that has identified there was Mr. Iqbal
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Madam Secretary, the long
and short of it,
you will not share this information with the Committee?
MS. DELES.

Your Honors, we understand that there are still

security threats on him and his family and his


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Madam Secretary, the

gentleman is sitting here in front of all the cameras. There are millions
of people who will see his face.
MS. DELES. Yes, Your Honor, but
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

The question of security

surely is no longer part of the context in which we are operating.

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MS. DELES. Yes, but that is why, Your Honor, in the matter of
his engagement with government in the peace negotiations, he is a
very public person.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Precisely. So
MS. DELES. But he does have a family. He does have a family
that carries his name.

He does have children, young children that

carries that name and we know that the MILF still has enemies and
would love to see some problem with him.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

I think we can assure

anybody here that non-combatants are not targets of the AFP, or the
PNP, of any agency in the government.
MS. DELES. The agencies in government, Your Honor, but there
are others that do not want this process to succeed. For Mr. Iqbal and
his family and relations to be submitted to that kind of problem, Your
Honor, which requires that he does invoke his right to privacy, Your
Honor.

But in as far as the peace agreement goes, all of the peace

negotiations are public, Your Honor, and here we make accountable


Mr. Iqbal, as we know him.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yeah.

Madam Secretary,

we are all public persons here. And his appointment or designation by


the MILF as chief negotiator and subsequent chairman to the
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Bangsamoro Transition Commission makes him a public person and it


does not, as I said earlier, inspire confidence in anyone when you are
sitting across the table and you are not sure of the identity of the
person you are talking to.
MS. DELES. But we are sure, Your Honor, of everything that Mr.
Iqbal has
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Madam Secretary, you do
understand that does not inspire confidence?
MS. DELES. But, Your Honor, we are negotiating with the MILF.
It is not Mr. Iqbal who is accountable for any of the peace agreements,
and they have designated Mr. Iqbal to be their negotiator and insofar
as that goes, he has never disappeared.

He has never used any other

name. He has never declined or denied anything that he has signed,


and the MILF has not declined it, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Madam Secretary
MS. DELES. That is where we are coming from.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). we are not accusing him
of any such things. We just want to know his name. Is that so much
to ask?
Anyway, the short answer is you will not share with us that
information.
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Mr. Chairman.


MS. DELES.

Your Honor, we can check with the Office of the

President about being able to disclose it in an executive session.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Do you know his true

name, Madam Secretary?


MS. DELES. It is on the record, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). No, not the record. Do you
know? To your own personal knowledge, do you know his true name?
MS. DELES.

No, Your Honor, as I have never looked at the

papers that were submitted for all his legal documents.


SEN. ESCUDERO. Mr. Chairman, after Senator Binay.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yes.

Yes, Senator

Escudero, after Senator Nancy as OIC-Chair


SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair, just to reiterateSecretary Deles, hindi
nyo ho alam?
MS. DELES. Your Honor, I know the name but I do notwhen
you say, Do you know to your personal knowledge, Your Honor, I do
not have that document, but government does have it.

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SEN. BINAY. How about Chairman Ferrer, do you know his real
name?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. BINAY.

Kailan nyo ho nalaman iyong totoong pangalan

niya?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. When I was doing my research on the
armed conflicts in the Philippines way back in the 1990s, Your Honor.
SEN. BINAY. So what is his real name?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. That matter, Your Honor, I think there
are privacy and security issues involved here and whatever we say can
affect the lives of people who are related to him.

Therefore, Your

Honor, I think the right to privacy is a superior right that belongs to


any public official, even public official has the right to privacy.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Senator Escudero.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ginoong

Iqbal,

mayroon

po

bang

tao

na

nagngangalang

Mohagher Iqbal maliban sa inyo?


MR. IQBAL. I only know of one, me.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Saan nyo po nakuha iyong pangalan? Kaya
po kasi tinatanong mula sa legal na perspektiba kung ano ang totoong
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pangalan nyo dahil baka may naliligaw ho diyan sa gilid-gilid, kung


saan mang parte ng bansa o ng Malaysia o kung saan man na
nagdadala din po ng ganyang pangalan at siya iyong totoong
Mohagher Iqbal.

Hindi naman po kasi Peter Pan iyong ginamit nyo.

Posibleng may taong nagtataglay ng ganyang pangalan.

You may

have not met him yet but its possible, correct me if Im wrong, that
there is a person with that name.
MR. IQBAL. We cannot discount that but I dont know.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Posible po.
Ang Iqbal po ba ay normal na apelyido sa Maguindanao kung
saan man po kayo pinanganak?
MR. IQBAL.

Well, I do not want to sound philosophical, Your

Honor, but possibilities are unending.


SEN. ESCUDERO. General Catapang, sabi po ni Ginoong Iqbal
alam daw ng gobyerno lahat.

Matagal nang kalaban ng pamahalaan

ang MILF bago po sila pumirma sa mga usaping pangkapayapaan at


kasunduang pangkapayapaan. Alam po ba ng AFP ang totoong identity
ni Ginoong Iqbal na kalaban sa matagal na panahon ng AFP?
MR. CATAPANG. Mr. Chair, Your Honor, to my knowledge, we
dont know the real name of Mr. Iqbal.

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SEN. ESCUDERO. Kaya po siguro hanggang ngayon hindi pa rin


po natin nasusupil ang anumang problema doon.
Hindi ho talaga, sir?
MR. CATAPANG. To my personal knowledge, Your Honor.
SEN. ESCUDERO. No, to the knowledge of the AFP speaking as
the chief of staff.
MR. CATAPANG. No, Your Honor/cbg

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MR. CATAPANG.
SEN. ESCUDERO.
MR. CATAPANG.

No, Your Honor.


You do not?
Yes, we do not know, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).

Just to interject.

Would you have access to that information as the chief of staff of


the AFP? Because Secretary Deles has said the government has this
information. Do you have access to that information?
MR. CATAPANG.

We do not have access but well find out,

Your Honor.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

So sa hinaba-haba ho ng panahon, mahigit

na kumulang apatnapung taon nang bakbakan diyan sa Mindanao,


Ginoong Iqbal, matagal na ho kayong nakikipaglaban sa gobyerno,
hindi ba? How many years, sir, 40? Even longer.
MR. CATAPANG.

Forty-two years.

SEN. ESCUDERO.

Forty-two years.

So sa apatnaput-

dalawang taong pakikipaglaban ng mga Muslim rebels, Moro rebels sa


Mindanao, the AFP never thought it was relevant to find out the real
identity of the leaders of the revolutionary and rebel groups there, sir?
Is that what youre telling us?

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MR. CATAPANG.

Your Honor, for that particular instance, Mr.

Iqbal, we treated that name as the true name.

We havent any

information that this is just a nom de guerre.


SEN. ESCUDERO.

Mr. Chairman, for the record, I know that

there are certain rights to privacy, nauunawaan po namin iyon, Dr.


Ferrer, Secretary Deles.
pero may batas po.

Alam din po naming may security concerns


Ang anumang kasunduang pirmahan niyo,

anumang confidence building ang pirmahan niyo, hindi ho kayang


baguhin kung anong nakalagay sa batas.
Halimbawa po, Ginoong Iqbal, mayroon po ba kayong bank
account?
MR. IQBAL.

Sa Mohagher Iqbal, yes.

SEN. ESCUDERO.

Pinagbabawal po ng Anti-Money Laundering

Law na gumamit ng ibang pangalan. Ang puwede po lamang gamitin


ayon sa Anti-Money Laundering Law ay iyong totoo na pangalan, know
your client rule nga po.

So even in bank accounts, you are using

Mohagher Iqbal, sir?


MR. IQBAL.

I cannot discuss that, Your Honor, because I am

not a lawyer. I do not want to self-incriminate myself.


SEN. ESCUDERO.

No. All Im saying, sir, you have a bank

account but its in the name of Iqbal.


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MR. IQBAL.

Yeah.

SEN. ESCUDERO.

Pangalawa, gaano po kami kasigurado,

halimbawa, alam ko po kasi ginagamit niyo iyong nom de guerre dahil


nagtatago maliban sa seguridad, dahil may mga kasong naka-file laban
sa kanya.
May I ask Secretary Deles without asking the name yet and
insisting on you giving the name, to your knowledge, are there cases
filed against the real identity of Mr. Iqbal thats why he is using a nom
de guerre?
MS. DELES.

To my knowledge, no, sir.

SEN. ESCUDERO.

Dr. Ferrer, maam?

MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

There is no case filed against Mr.

Iqbal or any of the names that he uses whether as a nom de plume or


as nom de guerre.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Iyong totoong pangalan po niya, may kaso

po ba laban sa kanya sa totoong pangalan niya?


MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Wala po kaming alam na kaso na

naka-file na ginagamit ang kanyang tunay na pangalan.


SEN. ESCUDERO.

Posibleng mayroon, hindi lang po niyo

alam.

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MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Wala po kaming alam na may kaso.

Hindi po posible, ang alam po namin, wala.


SEN. ESCUDERO.

Ang alam niyo poy wala. So wala. Dapat

alam niyo po lahat, hindi ba, dahil wala. Wala po.


MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Iyon po ang sinabi ko, wala po akong

alam na kaso na nakasampa sa pangalanin any of the names of Mr.


Iqbal whether his aliases or his real name.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Or his real name?

MS. CORONEL-FERRER.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Yes, sir.

Ginoong Iqbal, nagbabayad po ba kayo ng

buwis or mula noong pumirma po kayo ng kasunduan, nagbabayad po


ba kayo ng buwis o hindi po?
MR. IQBAL.

That follows po.

SEN. ESCUDERO.
MR. IQBAL.

I understand if you say, no.

That follows po sa pangalan na iyan.

SEN. ESCUDERO.

Nire-require din po kasi ng batas natin na

kailangan totoong pangalan din ang ibigay sa pagbabayad ng buwis.


Immigration Act, iyon lang po tila ang nasunod, na iyong passport
ninyo ay dinadala po noon iyong totoo niyong pangalan.
MR. IQBAL.

Kasi alam po ninyo, gaya ng sinabi ko kanina,

iyong personality ko po, dalawa kasi iyan, as a revolutionary leader


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and then as revolutionary leader.

Kasi hindi pa tapos ang problema

natin dito sa Mindanao. I do not want to say this but I have to be very
frank that we are still in a state of conflict, nandiyan pa rin ang
conflict. Kaya nga ang gobyerno at saka MILF, pumirma ng ceasefire
agreement para matigil po iyong putukan and then nag-usap tayo.
Iyang pag-uusap natin, marami tayong napirmahan na document. Ito
po ang napirmahan, napakakapal, from 1997. So dahil doon, marami
tayong napirmahan, iyong FAB at saka CAB. And then iyon nga, sabi
ko kanina, political documents.

Hindi ho kaya ng gobyerno i-

implement iyong political documents.

We need a legal document.

Kaya nga ho, ginawa po natin iyong Bangsamoro Basic Law, legal
document at nasa kamay niyo po iyan, iyong legal document na iyon.
Pag maipasa na iyan po and then at the same time mayroon tayong
normalization process, pag nakaya po natin, nagawa po natin ang
lahat ng proseso na iyan, magno-normal po.

At saka everything na

tungkol sa amin ay malalaman ng gobyerno ng Pilipinas.

Even the

Moro Islamic Liberation Front, if everything is implemented will become


a social movement.

Thats why we are organizing a political party

because we will engage in election.

Ang hawak ng gobyerno iyong

mananalo sa election kasi from arms to democratic struggle na po


iyan.
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SEN. ESCUDERO.
MR. IQBAL.

I agree po.

So ang pakiusap po namin, dapat tingnan po natin

iyong proseso na ganyan kasi pag ang trato po sa issue na ito ay


purely legal po, hindi niyo kami maintindihan kasi iba iyong personality
namin.
SEN. ESCUDERO.
namin.

Hindi lang po purely legal. Nauunawaan po

Sa katunayan, iyong tanong ni Senator Marcos kanina, sabi

niya walang epekto ito sa legalidad ng mga dokumentong pinirmahan


pero sa kumpiyansa, ika nga, na binubuo sa pagitan ng pamahalaan at
ng MILF.

Ang tanong ko po, kanino po kayo natatakot at kanino po

kayo takot kung bakit ayaw niyong ilahad ang inyong totoong
pangalan, sa militar po ba kayo natatakot?
MR. IQBAL.

Its not a matter of fear because when we joined

the Moro National Liberation Front and then eventually the Moro
Islamic Liberation Front, we know that death is part of it. And we are
willing to undertake that if it is necessary.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

But you said, security reasons. Kanino po

kayo natatakot na may security threat


MR. IQBAL.

No, not just the security, Your Honor, of my

person, not just of the MILF but its a complex issue that would be

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seen in a complex way. Very complicated po ang situation kasi hindi


pa ho normal ang situation.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Sir, hindi normal in relation to who, to

government?
MR. IQBAL.

Hindi pa natatapos ang problema.

natin nandidito pa.

Ang confict

Habang hindi na-resolve ang problema, hindi

naipasa ang BBL, halimbawaIm not threatening because I do not


want to picture what I am saying here as something threatening. No.
The MILF has never been known to threaten people, to threaten the
government because the government is an institution.
naayos

natin

iyong

problema

po

at,

halimbawa,

Pero pag

naipasa

ang

magandang BBL at naging normal na ito, normal na ang buhay namin.


Hintayin po natin iyan. Then everything will be laid bare.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Last two points, Mr. Chairman.

So Ginoong Iqbal, sabi niyo, alam naman ng gobyerno, alam


naman nila lahat.

So kung hihilingin namin sa gobyerno iyan, isa-

subpoena

sa

namin

gobyerno

iyan

at

sinabi

ng

gobyerno,

makakaapekto po ba iyan sa usaping pangkapayapaang nangyayari


ngayon?
MR. IQBAL.

Your Honor, I cannot make comment on that.

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SEN. ESCUDERO.

So ano pong ibig sabihin noon? Posibleng

makaapekto dahil bastat hindi manggaling sa inyo, puwede naming


kunin mula sa DFA?
MR. IQBAL.

Kasi, alam ho ninyo, Your Honor, isang salita,

halimbawa, napakarami po ang karugtong po niyan. So I do not want


to self-incriminate myself.
SEN. ESCUDERO.
pinanggagalingan namin.

Example, Ginoong Iqbal, dito po kasi ang


Kung pumirma po si Secretary Deles na

Snow White at pumirma po si Dr. Ferrer na Cinderella dahil takot din


po sila pag hindi natuloy itong usaping ito, baka iyong pamilya nila
habulin ninyo, hindi ho ba iyong epekto sa parte ng inyong mga
kasamahan, kukuwestiyunin ho kayo, Bat hindi nila ginagamit iyong
totoo nilang pangalan?

Doon po kami nanggagaling.

Nais din po

namin ipaunawa sa inyo iyong pinanggalingan namin. Nauunawaan ko


na rebolusyonaryo ang pinanggagalingan po ninyong organisasyon,
subalit sa puntong ito na umaangat na, above water na, ika nga,
nagiging legal na po lahat, hindi naman po siguro ninyo dapat ikagulat
o ipintas kanino man, kabilang na kami, kung hilingin namin na
malaman at alamin iyong totoong katauhan ng kaharap at kausap po
namin. Hindi sa darating pang panahon, hindi pag tumakbo na kayo
sa election, hindi dahil iyon ang nasa passport ninyo.

Pero ngayon,
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sabi niyo po, napanood ko kayo at napakinggan, maliit na bagay lang


ito, totoo po, maliit na bagay lang ito, mas malaking bagay ang peace
process, mas importante ang BBL. Kung totoo po iyon, bat hindi niyo
po mapagbigyan iyong maliit na bagay? Bat po napapalaki ito at bat
hanggang ngayon, gobyerno man o kayo o AFP man o sinumang
ahensya ng gobyerno, parang ayaw ibigay itong napakaliit na bagay
kung talagang maliit na bagay lamang po ito?
MR. IQBAL.

Well, at first glance, it says more thing. But if you

look at it deeply, its something that is very, very complicated and a


complex issue. Thats why, hindi ho basta-basta na papayag kami na
ilalahad namin everything. Kaya nga, sinabi ko nga rin kanina, hindi
pa tayo tapos, hindi pa tapos ang conflict dito sa Pilipinas.

Pag

natapos na iyong problema rito sa Mindanao, everything will be laid


bare. I promise that and we promise that.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Mr. Chairman, in the next hearing, may I

ask that we invite the DFA for them to shed light on this and bring the
necessary documents on the matter?
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).

Certainly. The committee

secretary is so instructed.
To get back to the point that Senator Escudero was trying to
make.

Kayo mismo ang nagsabi na sa unang tingin, ito ay maliit


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lamang na bagay ngunit hindi talaga maliit na bagay. Kayat naging


mahalaga itong usapan na ito, naging importante at itoy napapagusapan.
So again, in the interest of the peace process/cmn

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

of the peace process,

such a detail would be a big help in inspiring confidence I think not


only with the legislators, not only with the government but also the
general public. Dahil ang pakiramdam ng taongbayan ay sinasabi,
Bakit hindi na lang magsabi ng totoo, ano ba naman iyon?

Eh

papaano naman tayo, kawawa naman masyado ang Republika ng


Pilipinas, iyong kausap natin sa negotiation ay hindi man magsabi kung
ano iyong tunay niyang pangalan. So again, Chairman, it is a small
thing and it is a complex thing but it is important for the confidence of
all involved in this peace process that we know the true identity of the
person that we are dealing with.
SEN. SOTTO.

Mr. Chairman?

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
MR. IQBAL.

Mr. Chairman?

So perhaps we could--

With due respect, Your Honor, again I would

repeat I do not want to sound philosophical but I have to be very


frank. The government of the Philippines and MILF are engaged in a
peace process. As a peace process, mayroon iyang mga steps po na
hindi mo pwedeng--halimbawa, Step 5 hindi mo pwedeng ilagay iyan
sa Step 2. Kailangan sundin mo iyong proseso po. In a peace process

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you cannot cut corners.

Iyon po ang alam namin. At hintayin po natin

darating ang panahon we can do that.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
SEN. SOTTO.

Mr. Chairman?

Senator Guingona.

Just a statement, Mr. Chairman, so that I yield

the floor to Senator Guingona afterwards.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
SEN. SOTTO.

Yes, I yield.

Senator Sotto.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I dont know about the others or the other members of the


Senate. But the BBL is a very important piece of legislation. I prefer
discussing it with persons that I know. So therefore, I will just talk to
you, Mr. Chairman, during the plenary.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Thank you, Senator Sotto.

Yes, Professor Ferrer.


MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Your Honor, we would like to

manifest that last Friday, we provided your Committee as well as the


Committee of Senator Guingona and Senator Defensor-Santiago a copy
of the credentials of the MILF that was submitted to us when we
restarted negotiations in February 2011. And I have the facsimile of

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this document here coming from the chair of the MILF Al Haj
Murad saying that, By virtue of the powers and authority vested in me
as chair of the Central Committee-MILF, the MILF Peace Panel is
hereby authorized to negotiate with the government of the Philippines
for the GPH-MILF peace talks namely-- enumerating the name of the
members of the peace panel(1) Mohagher Iqbal, chairman; Datu
Michael Mastura, member; Maulana Bobby Alonto, member; Abdullah
Camlian, member; Abhoud Syed Lingga, member; Antonio Kinoc,
alternate member.

MILF peace panel secretariat, Jun Mantawil, head;

Mike Pasigan, members; Muhajirin Ali, member. Accept my usual high


esteem and best regards. Signed, Al Haj Murad Ebrahim.
This is the document that authorizes the team of Mr. Iqbal to
negotiate the agreements. There has never been any question as to
who the Mr. Iqbal sitting in the talks all this time and who the Mr. Iqbal
was or is that signed the documents in the comprehensive agreement
on the Bangsamoro.

Unless some other entity claims otherwise that

he is the Mr. Iqbal who signed the document, then there is no problem
with the existing documents.
May I also say, Your Honor, that the use of aliases certainly all
the laws that were cited not only in todays hearing but also in the
previous hearing in Congress applies to all individuals especially

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elected officials.

I have here a facsimile of the currency that was

produced by the Central Bank during the time of the former President
Joseph Estrada. It is signed by the President. It says here, Joseph
Ejercito Estrada, Pangulo ng Pilipinas.

I dont think that there is any

question as to the legality of this legal tender, Your Honor, even


though it was signed with an alias. So for the records, sir
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Mr. Chairman?
Madam Professor, his

designation by the MILF has not been called into question anywhere,
certainly not here. So thank you for that.
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

But the identity, Your Honor, does

not only have to do with the name. The identity has to do with the
biometrics, the fingerprints, the face.

I dont think that there is any

mask that disguises his real face. He can be called by different names
but the fact that he is the one and the same person who signed this
document.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Well, that is perhaps

acceptable for those who are familiar with him but there are millions
more who are not. That is why this issue of his true name becomes
important. If you have doubt with him for three, four years, you know
who he is, you have seen him everyday for a very long time, fine. But

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the rest of us havent. And so you have to understand that there is


that concern that we were not sure who we are dealing with. Yes, he
is the designated negotiator; yes, he is the designated chairman of the
Bangsamoro Transition Commission but we do not even know his
name. That seems to me a very unusual and peculiar situation.
Senator Guingona.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.
My first question is to Mr. Iqbal.
Mr. Iqbal, how long have you been a member and a negotiator of
the MILF?
MR. IQBAL.

The MILF has four negotiators.

The chief

negotiator-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

How long, how long,

how long?
MR. IQBAL.

Im just trying to explain it. From 1997 up to the

middle of 2000, I was a member of the MILF negotiating panel. Then in


2000, there was an all-out war against the MILF. And then it resumed
in Kuala Lumpur. It was already the diplomatic state of the negotiation
under the facilitation of Malaysia.

So I was not part of that peace

panel of the MILF from 2001 up to the middle of 2003. And then on

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July 29 after the death of Salamat Hashim because at that time the
panel of the MILF was headed by Vice Chairman Al Haj Murad Ebrahim.
So when Salamat died on July 13, Murad Ebrahim took over as
chairman of the MILF peace panel. So there was a replacement of the
MILF peace panel, and that was me. From July 29 up to today, I am
still the chief negotiator of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

So all in all, on a more

or less basis, no need to be very, very pinpoint accurate, how many


years?
MR. IQBAL.

I think 15 years.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).


MR. IQBAL.

Fifteen?

Yes.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

How long has the MILF

been negotiating with the government?


MR. IQBAL.

Formallyinformally, since the time of his late

father there was already an informal contact. But formally, it was on


January 7, 1997 up to today.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

More or less, how many

years?
MR. IQBAL.

More or less, 42 years.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

Forty-two years. So

formally or informally all those 42 years, what was the status of the
MILF, was it a legal entity or was it a revolutionary force?
MR. IQBAL.

Well, very clearly, it

is a

revolutionary

organization.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
MR. IQBAL.

Okay, thank you.

Because the MILF does not register its name, it

has no bank accounts, etcetera, etcetera. So its a revolutionary


organization.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

Agreed, agreed.

Professor Ferrer, is it not true that a revolutionary force by its


very nature does not operate under the laws of the state against which
it is at odds?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

That is the nature of an anti-state

armed group, Your Honor.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Ill take that as a yes?

Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

Okay.

So if a

revolutionary force is outside the jurisdiction of a state, it also follows


then that the laws of that state cannot be applied or would be

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impossible to apply on the members of that revolutionary force, am I


correct, Professor Ferrer?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Yes, Your Honor.

Unless they are

arrested on the basis of some other crime, Your Honor, that is


prohibited by our Constitution.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Fine, fine. But on a
theoretical basis, as a general rule, concepts like the use of aliases,
concepts like rebellion can only be put against them, charged against
them once they are physically arrested/rjo

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THE

CHAIRMAN

physically arrested.

(SEN.

GUINGONA).

once

they are

But conceptually, they are outside the ambit of

the law. Thats why they are called rebels, rebelde kanino? Rebelde
sa gobyerno. So kung rebelde sa gobyerno, hindi kinikilala iyong mga
batas.

Iyon po ang nature ng revolutionary government.

Are we in

agreement?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). So, therefore, it is not
proper to look at this problemI wont even call it a problemlook at
this issue of Mr. Iqbals having an alias as a legal problem because we
cannot look at it using the eyeglasses of a legal framework because
this is not legal, this is something bigger than legal. It is political, are
we correct?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Thank you.
And therefore, if it is political, it is, I would say faulty to use any
legal laws or legal concepts on somebody who is operating beyond the
jurisdiction, beyond the ambit of the state over which he is actually
rebelling, am I correct?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Yes, Your Honor.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Secondly, Mr. Iqbal has


stated that there are security concerns thats why he does not want to
reveal his name. He has a family, may apo pa nga yata si Mr. Iqbal.
And we must infuse culture here. Kailangang kilalanin ang kultura ng
ating mga kapatid down south. Kung magsala ka sa isang tao, lalo na
kung iyong honor ng tao, kung magsala ka, kung babalikan ka, at hindi
ka babalikan sa pamamagitan ng pag-file ng kaso sa regional trial
court, hindi ganoon iyon. Babalikan ka, babawian ka at kung hindi ka
mahanap, iyong pamilya mo ang hahanapin at iyong pamilya mo ang
babalikan.

At kung hindi mahanap iyong pamilya mo mismo, iyong

clan mo, iyong relatives mo ang hahanapin, iyong clan mo ang


babalikan.
Iyon po ang ibig sabihin ng security issues. Kaya nga hindi rin
pwede, lets say, the concepts of witness protection program ng DOJ
diyan down south kasi kailangang ipasok mo iyong buong angkan niya.
The whole clan must be under the witness protection program. Thats
already impossible.
So we must understand the culture.

The culture is different,

thats why the security issue is very, very complex.


My third point, we have been dealing with Mr. Iqbal since 2001
as he says.

So many years and he has used that name.

The MILF

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states that he is their representative and they have never denied it,
they have never repudiated it. In fact, they have even enforced it in
Malaysia and in other countries all over the world.

Therefore, Mr.

Chairman, I do not see any problem. I do not see any problem with
Mr. Iqbals using the present alias as long as we continue the peace
process, the peace process until its final end. And Mr. Iqbal has said,
once the final end is achieved, they cease to be a revolutionary force
and they now form part of the state and therefore they voluntarily,
because of that peace pact, will submit to the laws of the Republic.
And at that point, we heard Mr. Iqbal, he did promise to reveal his
name.
So, Mr. Chairman, I would like to disagree that this is an
important issue. I would like to say that this is an issue, yes, but this
is an issue which should not hamper the proceedings of the peace
process until its final end. After all, what is the ending? The ending is
the MILF will join the government, the MILF will be part of the state,
the MILF will follow the laws of the state. Iyon ang gusto nating lahat.
And they have promised, Mr. Iqbal has promised, at that time, he will
reveal his real name.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

To recapitulate, Senator

Guingona, again, at the very outset, we recognize that the legal issues
at this point in the process are still secondary. However, the issues as
to the gestures of good faith, the confidence that everybody involved
in the process can have, in the personalities that they are dealing with,
certainly is not helped by the fact that we cannot even gain the true
identity of the chief negotiator of the MILF.

And I think that all the

legal points that you have made are certainly taken but the point is not
that there is a legal impediment to the peace process because of the
use of an alias but there is impediment in terms of the confidence that
we feel when we are negotiating with someone who we do not even
know the true identity of.
For the record, I have examined this question a little bit before
coming to this hearing: None of the rebel groups who have signed
peace agreements with any of the governments have used aliases.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

And so that is a very

peculiar and singular situation in the Philippines.


Yes, Senator Escudero.
MS. DELES. Your Honor, just to correct. There was one name
in one of the agreements signed between government and the NDF

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under President Ramos. If I have it correctly, that used a pseudonym,


Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). No, no, no. I said in other
countries.
MS. DELES. In other countries.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yeah.
MS. DELES. Your Honor, we have. In Nepal, for example, the
Comprehensive Peace Accord was signed under an alias.
Guatemala and in Columbia now ongoing, Your Honor.

Also in

It is not a

unique practice, Your Honor.


When the peace negotiations start, when the conflict is still on a
very high level, then it is the persona of the combatant that emerges,
Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Madam Secretary, we are
aware of those situations.

We are way past that already.

We are

institutionalizing a sub-government and we are way past the peace


agreement. In fact, the basis of this draft BBL is the peace agreement.
Surely, those examples that you gave, we are not in the same stages
as those.
But anyway, never mind

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MS. DELES. No, Your Honor, these are final peace agreements
that were also signed in Nepal, in Guatemala
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Precisely.
MS. DELES. that were signed under an alias, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well.
MS. DELES.

And the process is not finished.

In fact, the

airwaves have been very full saying that the BBL will not be signed.
This is really a very strong warning, a very strong signal that there is a
segment particularly in the lawmaking instruments of government that
in fact this process may not be completed, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Well, I do not want to

argue this point as again, it is tangential. But the point is that we are
at a different stage in the process of peace negotiations than the
examples that you have given.
Senator Escudero has some
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Before we leave the issue, just to set the

record straight.
Secretary Deles or Dr. Ferrer, iyong pangalan po bang Al Hadj
Murad Ebrahim, is this his real name or is this an alias?
Maam, please.
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. The MILF will be the best.../jun

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MS. CORONEL-FERRER. The MILF will be the best entity to


confirm or deny that.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

No, no, no.

You, maam, Im asking you.

You should know if this is their real name or their alias.


MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Yes, Your Honor.

I know personally

the status of the name but again, for the same arguments, reasons of
security and privacy, we cannot confirm or deny.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Maam, even if that is his real name, you will
not confirm nor deny that that is his real name? Maam, if he is using
his real name, I guess you can tell us that that is his real name
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

The MILF has said that almost 100

percent of the members of the central committee are using aliases.


SEN. ESCUDERO.

Ginoong Iqbal, iyong pangalan po bang Al

Hadj Murad Ibrahim, is this an alias or his real name?


MR. IQBAL. Your Honor, would you permit me to ask first Hadji
Murad before I answer that question?
SEN. ESCUDERO. I am assuming that its an alias because if it
were his real name, hes not hiding.
Sir, forgive me, Dr. Ferrer. Ginamit na ho niya ang totoo niyang
pangalan.

Ayaw nyo pang aminin kung totoo niyang pangalan iyon.

Siya na nga inaamin na niya. So, ang papalabasin po natin, ginamit


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niya iyong totoong pangalan niya pero hindi niya aaminin at hindi nyo
aaminin dahil baka alias iyon.
MR. IQBAL. Your Honor, kasi sa amin, within the leadership of
the MILF, mayroon kaming tinatawag na sensitivity at saka mutual
respect. So, hindi ko
SEN. ESCUDERO. I understand that. Now, on the part
MR. IQBAL. But I just want to volunteer, Your Honor, if I may
give a little information. I dont know if this information has relevance
to our discussion, about the use of aliases.

The government of the

Philippines has been dealing with the MNLF since your father, your late
father.
Misuari.

And I understand that Nur is not the exact name of Nur


Half.

Kalahati lang kasi, the real name of Misuari is Nurul

Hadji Misuari.

So, I dont know if there is relevance to the current

discussion about aliases.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).. I was actually going to get
to that point. But let me allow Senator Escudero to finish.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Tapusin ko lang ho iyong listahan para lang
malaman natin.
Iyong Datu Michael Mastura, is that a real name or an alias?
These are the MILF negotiators, sir.

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MR. IQBAL. He was once a member of the Philippine Congress.


I still cannot say here with certainty that that is his real name or
assumed name.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Secretary Deles, is that the real name of a
former member of Congress whos part of the peace panel.
MS. DELES. That is the name that he has used, Your Honor, as
congress person and as a member of the panel.
SEN. ESCUDERO. So, is that his real name or an alias, maam?
You dont know?
MS. DELES.

Your Honor, as explained already, where names

have been used, different names have been used, assumptions of


names have been used, for many reasons in the area, Your Honor, I
will say I do not have the document by which I could say for certainty
that this is his real name.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Maulana Bobby Alonto. May nickname pa.
Is that a real name or an alias? Mr. Iqbal will no longer answer for the
same reason, Secretary Deles, Dr. Ferrer, real name po ba ito or alias,
to your knowledge? Just for the record, maam.
MS. DELES.

Your Honor, I would like to say that we will have

to give the same response because what I know and then some, you

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know, you will ask for documents which I will not have, Your Honors, I
would
SEN. ESCUDERO. I will not ask, maam. Im just saying to the
best of your knowledge because youve been talking to these people.
MS. DELES. To the best of my knowledge, Your Honor?
SEN. ESCUDERO. Yes, ma'am. To the best of your knowledge,
maam, real name, maam?
MS. DELES. Bobby Alonto, yes.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Abdulla Kamlian.
MS. DELES. To the best of my knowledge, Your Honor?
SEN. ESCUDERO. Yes.
MS. DELES. To the best of my knowledge, Your Honor, and with
all the reservations that I have put forward, Yes.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Abhoud Syed Lingga. I hope I pronounced it
correctly and gave justice to the name.
MS. DELES.

Yes, Your Honor.

He is an academic, hes been

teaching in MSU. He is not a member of the central committee, Your


Honor, the same with Al Camia (?).
SEN. ESCUDERO. Antonio Kinok, real name po ba ito o

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MS. DELES. He is a Blaan, Your Honor. So, I dont know what


their practices are in terms of maybe having been using also several
names. I am not sure, Your Honor.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

At some point in time, Secretary Deles, as

Chairman Marcos said, we would have to get the real names of these
people because you would be issuing appointments.
MS. DELES. Definitely, Your Honor, yes.
SEN. ESCUDERO. But it would serve you well to know if this is
indeed their real name at this point in time or not.
MS. DELES. Your Honor, what has been important to us is that
we know who the organization is and that they have put forward
representatives by which they have stood by, by which we have a
paper that identifies the names of the ones who are sitting before us
and with whom there has never been any question of changes of
identities and identities connected to these names.

These persons

connected to these names have signed all the papers, have stood by
these papers, are submitting, have come to Congress several times
under those names and have answered questions, Your Honor.

And

never at any point has any of these that have signed any agreement
with government turned their back on what they have signed nor has
the MILF at any time ever said that these persons have signed unduly
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any of these papers. That, Your Honor, is what is important to us. I


know Mr. Iqbal as Mr. Iqbal, Your Honor. He is the one who has come
forward.

This is the public persona that is well known.

changed that.

He has not

He has spoken always here under very close scrutiny

and examination, Your Honor. And as far as that goes, that is what we
stand by, Your Honor. This is what the peace process stands for. And
as I said again, this is not unique in this country. This has been the
practice in many peace negotiations in different parts of the world.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Maam, paulit-ulit nyo pong sinasabi iyan.

Nauunawaan po namin iyan. Sa totoo lang, hindi na ho kailangang


paulit-ulit pang sabihin.

Iyon na ho ang sinabi ni Senator Marcos

simula pa lang. We are not saying that the documents he signed are
questionable. We are not saying that it is legally infirmed. No, were
not. What were simply asking is, tapos na iyong giyera, matagal na
tayong may ceasefire, nag-uusap na tayo ng harapan,

inaayos na

natin at isinasabatas pa nga iyong mga kasunduang pinasukan at


pinirmahan. Hindi ito dapat maging hadlang sa peace process, tama
si Senator Guingona.

Pero hindi rin iyon dapat magsilbing tinga sa

peace process. Maliit na bagay lang iyon pero parang tinga sa ngipin,
nakakairita na dapat sana isantabi na sa pamamagitan ng simpleng
kasagutan.

Walang threat.

Kaya naman sigurong sabihin iyan ng


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peace panel. Walang threat na nagmumula sa PNP, AFP o pamahalaan


laban kay Ginoong Iqbal.

Iyong mga may ayaw ng peace process,

maski pirmahan pa iyong BBL, ayaw pa rin nila iyan at may threat pa
rin kay Ginoong Iqbal. Mananatili po iyon at hindi kayang baguhin iyon
ng BBL. Kaya hindi porket pinirmahan iyong BBL ay doon lamang din
po sasabihin. Babalikan ko ho. Kung maliit na bagay lang talaga ito,
sana ibigay na. Kung tunay nga at kumplikado naman ito, ay di dapat
talaga pag-usapan at linawagin at hindi pakawalan.

Either way,

Congress is simply airing out its concern, questions and clarifications.


Its up to the peace panel really, the MILF if they will address these
concerns, these questions and these doubts.

If you dont, Congress

and the Senate will act accordingly.


MS. DELES.

Yes, Your Honor.

Definitely, we are taking very

seriously and we have listened very carefully to all of the discourse on


aliases. And certainly, this will be a matter for continuing discussion
within government as I believe it will be with the MILF. The thing that
we are sure of, Your Honor, is that as the peace agreement is
completed and that the arrangements that were agreed upon in the
comprehensive agreement becomes legal, certainly all of these will be
settled, Your Honor. And definitely, Your Honor, the Bangsamoro will

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not be put into place, I think, without a public disclosure of everyone


that has been part of this process.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Well, Madam Secretary, I

am glad you agree with us that it cannot be put into place without
clarification on all of these issues.

And that is precisely why we are

taking it up today. And that is why this is the issue that has taken up
all this time when we were meant to be here for a different purpose.
We have here with us the chairman of the MNLF central
committee,

Ambassador

Datu

Abdul

Alonto.

Ambassador, I know this is your true name.

Your

Excellency,

You have not used an

alias, Ambassador.
MR. ALONTO.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, and thank you.

As

Shakespeare says, Whats in a name that which we call a rose? By


any other name would smell as sweet.

But, of course. . . (nam)

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MR. ALONTO.

But, of course, we are not as sweet as the

rose, Mr. Senator, neither Iqbal is sweet as a rose. But may I remind
the good Chairman and good Senator that the MILF is a revolutionary
movement. I know my good brother, younger brother, Mr. Mohagher
Iqbal.

In fact, it was my privilege and I am happy that there was

what I did, it proved the truth because Iqbal was one of those that
could have joined the first batch of the Moro National Liberation Front
but I declined and I rejected him, not on the basis that he was not
qualified, not on the basis that because he doesnt know law. In fact,
he was a university student at that time in Manila. These are the kind
of people we need at that time at the organizational stage of the
movement but because I already recruited the brother and another
first cousin I said it will be too much for your family. So I rejected
him, not because I do not like him but I want to sayand I told him,
You will better serve the revolution after the struggle, finish your
studies.
He is a bachelors degree holder now and a masteral degree but
his brother and his first cousin were all martyred. And perhaps as I
have told him the first time I met him because I do not even know he
is Iqbal until I realized when he spoke that he was the same
gentleman that I have rejected in the first batch. And I told him I was

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right. Had I done it and have taken you with me, you could have died
like your brother. The MILF could have no negotiating team leader
now. But I will respect the position of Mr. Iqbal. If he wants to keep
his name, I respect him for that. But their chance, God willing and we
hope that we can resolve this issue, Mr. Senator and Mr. Chairman,
and, of course
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Ambassador.
MR. ALONTO. Yes. Then I suggest if Iqbal wants to maintain
his name, I think there is no legal impediment there, Mr. Senator. I
think he can just do what President Joseph Estrada did, Senator
Jinggoy Estrada did and Ramon Revilla Jr. did, as simple as that. But
meantime, I think we have to respect that and everybody is known
Iqbal is known to the Malaysian facilitators and to his counterparts.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you.
MR. ALONTO. Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, please.
MR. ALONTO. May I add more on the personal views that was
raised here by the good Senator?

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). On the names that Senator


Escudero brought up.
MR. ALONTO.
deception here.

Because I said he might think that there is

There is no deception here.

I have to respect the

decision of Iqbal.
During the war, Mr. Senator, Alonto-Ibrahim checked in a hotel
in Davao City.

Just because he was Alonto-Ibrahim, they thought he

was relative to Abul Khayr Alonto.

Right on his room, someone

knocked and shoot him, point-blank.

He is dead. Abdul Alonto who

was mistaken for Abul because it is also my nickname, who happens to


be my younger first cousin was killed, shot, half to death in the
presence of his mother, his wife and his only son. And if Ibrahim keep
it, you have to respect that. But the other names, I will tell you, there
is no deception here.

I have been listening and he made mention

about Maulana Bobby Alonto.


Mr. Chairman,

Maulana Bobby Alonto is

Marohombsar Alonto, the surname that he is using.


cousin.

The father was with us.

Robert Maulana
He is my first

And on his maternal using the

Marohombsar name, he is the grandson of the first two Muslim, one of


the first two Muslim generals who graduated by the Philippine
Constabulary School then, now the Philippine Military Academy.

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And Mr. Datu Michael Mastura happens to be Atty. Michael


Mastura who was a former delegate to the 1971 Constitutional
Convention; his real name is Alauya, named after Sultan Alauya
Alonto, the first senator and Sultan Ibrahim(?) who happens to be his
granduncle and he is my cousin but Michael was added by the Notre
Dame University to sound it more Westernized or Americanized or
Christianized.

Now I would say Lindon(?) is a professor, he is an

academician.

He was my political signatory when he was with us in

the Moro National Liberation Front.


So there seems to be no deception here, Mr. Senator.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Mr. Chairman, just to clarify.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair.
THE

CHAIRMAN

(SEN.

MARCOS).

Thank

you,

Mr.

Ambassador, for clarifying at least some of the names as have been


brought up.
SEN. ESCUDERO. Just a brief point, Mr. Chairman. There was
no allegation of deception, just information, sir. Kasi kung alias iyong
kay Ginoong Iqbal, we would also like to know if these are aliases as
well. If the reasons of security and privacy apply to him, they might
apply to the rest as well. And if the reasons of security and privacy

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dont apply to the rest, then perhaps Mr. Iqbal can also consider it not
applying to him.

That was the reason behind it, sir, not that there

were any allegations of deception or anything.

It was more for

information.
Thank you for sharing that with us, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Your Excellency
Ambassador Alonto.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Senator Nancy Binay has, I
think, another question to propound.
SEN. BINAY.

Secretary Deles, may nabigay na ho bang

government funds sa Bangsamoro Transition Commission?


MS. DELES. Mayroon ho.
SEN. BINAY. Magkano ho?
MS. DELES. In the executive order, 100 million was set aside.
That was not given out in sum so it is given out by the Office of the
President in tranches as they submit liquidation report, Your Honor.
SEN. BINAY. Sino ho ang disbursement officer noong fund na
iyon? I mean, sino ho iyong mga signatories?

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MS. DELES.

I will have to check that with the Office of the

President, Your Honor. It is the Office of the Executive Secretary that


handles that. It is not handled through OPAPP.
Mr. Chair, can you pleasein the next hearing kung pwede ho isubmit iyong all documents that pertain to that account?
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Madam Secretary, please
we will make a formal request to your office to submit all the
information pertaining to the funds that were handed towho was it
handed to, the MILF or the Transition Commission?
MS. DELES. Bangsamoro Transition Commission was created by
executive order, Your Honor.
THE

CHAIRMAN

(SEN.

MARCOS).

By

the

Transition

Commission, therefore, you would make that please available so that


because it would seem that as we are going along that we are going to
have other hearings on the subject.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Chair, one more.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes.
SEN. BINAY. Mr. Iqbal, may sweldo ho ba kayo as chairman of
Bangsamoro Transition Commission?
MR. IQBAL. Doon ho sa sinasabi ng Executive Order No. 120,
kasama po doon.

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SEN. BINAY.

So youre receiving government fund under the

name Mr. Iqbal?


MR. IQBAL. Yes.
SEN. BINAY. Siguro, Mr. Chair, can we just get the position of
DOJ pagdating ho dito sa paggamit ng alias? Apparently, tumatanggap
na ho si Mr. Iqbal ng government fund. He has bank accounts under an
alias.
So ano ho ang position ng DOJ dito?
MR. SILVA. Your Honors, on behalf of the Honorable Secretary
De Lima who wishes to express her regret that due to a prior
commitment she could not make it to this hearing.

We respectfully

manifest that we are preparing and we have prepared to submit a


position paper specifically dealing with the issue of the use of Mr. Iqbal
of an alias in the negotiations as well as in deciding on the peace
accords regarding the Bangsamoro.
We would like to reserve, therefore, our answer until the
conclusion and the submission of our position paper, if that would be
required by the Honorable Committee, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, certainly now because
the good Senator from Makati has already asked the question and,

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therefore, the Committee would require to have that information as


soon as possible.
So would you be able to tell us when your position paper, the
DOJs position paper, will be ready?
MR. SILVA.

I will have to get back with the Office of the

Secretary, Your Honor, regarding that matter.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Hopefully within the week
so that we can proceed further.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Mr. Chairman, for the assistant secretary,

just to follow up.


Can you also include, Asecmoving forward, as Senator Binay
said, tumatanggap ng sweldo, pumipirma siguro ng payroll, ng
kontrata rin siguroMoving forward, how will we approach this issue
on the use of aliases?

As Senator Marcos said we already reaching

that point, that not only political documents but also legal documents
are

being

signed

and

at

what

point

in

time

should

this

be

addressed/mpm

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SEN. ESCUDERO.

should this be addressed squarely already

and not simply be based on when the BBL will be approved? Because
as early as now, legal documents are being signed already. Can you
do that, sir?
MR. SILVA.

Yes, Your Honor, we will convey that to the Office

of the Secretary.
SEN. ESCUDERO.

Pakisabi na lang po. Thank you po.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Okay.

Thank you, ASec Silva. We will await those information.


Yes, Atty. Sakkam, you would like to
MR. SAKKAM.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am Akmad Sakkam.

Its not an alias.

Its not a nom de

guerre.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

I know that, Attorney,

because I know you. So I know that that was your true name.
MR. SAKKAM.

Thank you. And it was a pleasure to be with

you, Mr. Chairman, to travel all over Mindanao, especially Tawi-Tawi.


There is a very good point raised by Senator Guingona here,
cultural understanding. You know, to the Muslim, Mr. Chairman, rido,
principle of revenge, it carries not just to the family, to the brother but
to the cousin and to the entire clan. Thats why the issue of security

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concern is vital to the Bangsamoro people.

And can you imagine if

Mohagher Iqbal, they will know who is he, then the sister, the brother,
they have so many enemies, the BIFF and even the former colleague,
the MNLF, they have enemies. So I could understand on that point.
Second issue, Mr. Chairman, on law.

He keeps on repeatedly

saying that they are a revolutionary organization and therefore the


coverage of the law is not yet applicable insofar as the name.

And

even if applicable, Senator Escudero said, in law, once amnesty is


covered, all other crime related to rebellion, except personal crime, will
be absolved. And how much more a little law on aliases in which the
government of the Republic through the Executive Department
acknowledge the merit of security reason? Thats why they proceeded
to negotiate with Mohagher Iqbal, representing the MILF, and the MILF
did not contradict that, did not refute that.

They acknowledge that

Mohagher Iqbal is the true representative of the MILF and that is


precisely my chairman keep on trying to evade.

But this was not

intended to evade you, Mr. Chairman, he cannot see it directly but that
is the point.
So with that, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Thank you for that

clarification, Attorney, and we appreciate the security concerns. But as

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I have repeatedly mentioned, the gentleman sitting here in front of the


cameras, millions of Filipinos are watching, they know exactly what he
looks like. I do not think that having an alias will improve his security
position. But, anyway, that is something that we will discuss further.
I would like at this point to leave this issue for now pending all of
the information that we have been askingthe records of the DFA, the
position paper of the DOJ.

And wed like to move now to the main

purpose of this hearing and that is to examine the events of January


25 of this year and to try and establish a timeline from the time that
the shooting begun early morning of 25 January until the ceasefire was
implemented.

I believe that according to the AFP report, the

ceasefireat least on the MILF side, perhaps the other elements did
not comply strictly, but with the MILFthe ceasefire was instituted,
was formalized at 4 oclock, 1600H, of 25 January. That is what we
have from the PNP report, the AFP report and some of the testimony of
our CCCH and the AHJAG.
So, Secretary Deles, the report that the OPPAP had made also
has its own timeline. So what I would like at this point is to establish
exactly because there are slight variances in terms of the time and the
personalities and the events as to who were involved. So I would like
to, at this point, try and establish that timeline and I believe after we

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have spoken the other day that there is a presentation that, I dont
know if it is your office or another office, that will make the
presentationah, it is the CCCH. Okay, very well. Perhaps you can
proceed with that presentation now.
What we are looking for is just, first, as a base line, establish the
timeline.

What happened when?

And then we will look into the

possible mechanisms to improve and to streamline that process so that


it would not takethe shooting started at around 4:30, the ceasefire
was implemented around 4 p.m.
So, General Galvez, please proceed.
MR. GALVEZ.

Sir, Your Honors, for the information of Your

Honors, I was given by chief of staff the instructions to recall and


reestablish what really happened in Mamasapano.

And with that, I

already coordinated with my counterpart to reenact and to reestablish


the timeline.
So with that, after this meeting and after our executive meeting
in the Congress, we will reestablish and reenact what really happened
in Mamasapano with the IMT, with the MILF and with the CCCH.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So are you saying,

General, that this is a joint output of the IMT as well and AFP and also
the AHJAG of the MILF?

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MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir.

So that the personal information and

also the personal contacts of each individual should be recollected,


considering that the timeline that we have submitted to Your Honors is
only submitted by the key leaders.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Thats right.

Because of

the lack of time during the hearings, I was not able to go into further
detail. And thats why I called this hearing so that we can go into as
much detail as is necessary to find out and to really see exactly what
happened and who were involved, not only as you say the key leaders,
but even the other commanders or the other personalities.
MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir.

We will recollect and also we will

reestablish.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So proceed with that,

General Galvez.
MR. GALVEZ.

Sir, now, Your Honors, let me present to you

SEN. BINAY.

Mr. Chair, can we request for a hard copy?

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

General Galvez, perhaps

you could give us a hard copy and we will have itipakopya natin para
magkaroon ng kopya ang Committee at saka iyong mga members.
MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir, well do.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Thank you, General.

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MS. DELES.

Your Honor, just to clarify, the present PowerPoint

is on the ceasefire mechanisms.

The timeline which will be detailed

with all the actors at that particular day is still to be finalized, Your
Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Very well. Then let us see

what we have so far.


Again, I ask the question, what youve presenting to us now was
done in coordination with the International Monitoring Team?
MR. GALVEZ.

No, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).


MR. GALVEZ.

No?

This is on the mechanism.

What we will be

doing is we will have timeline after the Senate hearing today and also
the executive meeting tomorrow, we will immediately go to the area
with my counterpart and also the men involved in the actual ceasefire
establishment so that we could really see all the details including all
the communications made by the
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So this is just a general

account so far?
MR. GALVEZ.

Sir, this is some sort of the AFP, the mechanisms

undertaken after the Mamasapano incident.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Very well.

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MR. GALVEZ.

It is more on what will be our remedies in order

not to repeat the Mamasapano incident.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Okay, General, please go

ahead so that at least the committee can


MR. GALVEZ.

Sirs, Your Honors, let me present to you our

presentation on the ceasefire mechanisms being implemented since


1997 up to 2015.
Next slide, please.
So the purpose of my presentation is to present to the
honorables the architecture and the dynamics of the ceasefire
mechanism, meaning, the dynamics, it is related on the relational, and
cultural and religious architect of the area and also to provide
recommendations to further strengthen the mechanism and avert
another Mamasapano incident.
My presentation outline will be as follows, so Ill give you some
backgrounder on the context of the conflict and then also the
mechanisms and then the challenges that we have, especially we have
these ceasefire challenges ever since in Basilan.

And then also our

recommended strategies. /meln

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MR. GALVEZ.

our recommended strategies.

On the backgroundNext slide, please.


So as we have seen, Mindanao has been very problematic. The
primary sources of threat came from the CPP-NPA and the other
Muslim threat group.

As we say problematic, considering that the

conflict-affected areas of Mindanao is being confronted by various


threats, previously by the MNLF, the MILF, the Abu Sayyaf, the BIFF,
the lawless element, the GIA, the KAM.
groups.

So we have the private armed

We have also the kidnap-for-ransom group and also the

organized crime.
We have to characterize the problem as very volatile, meaning,
as of now it is stable but tense.
variables.

Very... because there are many

Its very complex and dynamic so we cannot solve the

problem using linear equationing here.

It is multi-ethnic, meaning,

there are social orders, different from each other wherein the solutions
cannot fit in on the other cultures. So we have the Maguindanaoans,
the Maranawans, Tausug, the Yakans, and the Samal and the
Christians which the relational perspectives of these are too different.
The problem is also generational because there is some sort of
accumulation of hate, meaning, there are some cultural experiences

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wherein some of our Muslim brothers feel that they have been
marginalized for so long a time.

And then also theres a feeling of

intolerance and alienation.

There are some communities that

Christians cannot go there.

In the same way that some Muslims

cannot go on some Christian communities.

They are still existing in

these areas.
As you can see, the central Mindanao, we have the Maguindanao
and the Lanao and the Zambasulta.

The Zambasulta area, the

situation there is very pervasive because of the existence of pseudo


economies,

meaning,

there

are

kidnap-for-ransom,

there

are

narcopolitics and narcoterrorism and also there are the presence of the
ASG, the JI, the lawless and the BIFF. The KAM has been present in
Lanao and also in central Mindanao.
Next.
This is the complexity of the conflict of Mindanao. This is a long
research since the time of General Ferrer, when he was the battalion
commander and brigade commander of Basilan Province.

And these

have been the experience of most of our soldiers in the field.


As you can see, based on the NDU concept, National Defense
University concept of Washington DC, there are two factors of a

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conflict. The triggers and the conditions, the drivers.

The drivers are

the ideologists and the triggers are the conditions.

As you can see

there are many ideologists and interest groups in the area. We have
the political armed group with same head, different interests. We have
the ASG, the BIFF, the MILF, the MNLF that we have the final peace
agreement in 1985 and the lawless elements, the kidnap-for-ransom
group, the drug lords and also the security sectors.

Sometimes,

previously, the security sector, we have some problems.


And also the triggers, there is a lack of education and basic
services.

There is injustice.

There is

system dysfunctions in some

areas and also the absence of governance, culture of violence, the rido
that we are talking about.
As you can see, nakikita natin dito sa ano natin, iyong
sometimes the lawless elements, the MNLF, the MILF and the PAGs,
mayroon silang concentration point.

Because of rido, minsan

nagkakasama sila. Because of rido, nag-aaway sila. And then pagka


ang military ang nadiyan ang ka-rido nila military.

So the question

why pagka nagkakaroon ng engagement ang military at saka iyong


other Muslim, nakikita natin, sometimes they are being mutilated.
Sometimes nagkakaroon ng tinatawag nating inhuman.

Because on

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their culture, mayroong mga areas na ganoon na their hatred during
the time of No Mans Land dati, iyon na ang nagiging parang hanggang
ngayon, this is being taught in Madrasas.
THE

CHAIRMAN

(SEN.

MARCOS.)

General,

iyong

background, I think we can all read up onsiguro we can get to some


of the specifics of 25 January because...
MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS.)

...we would like to at least

cover some and see what are the lessons learned from that specific
incident.
MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS.)

That we can apply to the

BBL.
MR. GALVEZ.

Yes, sir.

Next slide, please.


For the information of Your Honors, the ceasefire mechanism
consists of six major bodies but the three major bodies consist of the
Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities or the CCCH,
the AHJAG, Joint Action Group and the International Monitoring Team.
Aside from that we have the provincial level local monitoring

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teams. I will explain this lengthily in the next slide.
Then the joint ceasefire monitoring post, this is a municipal and
barangay level.

And also we have LGUs, NGOs like the Bantay

Ceasefire and Nonviolent Peaceforce.

The Nonviolent Peaceforce is

international. This is internationally delegated.


Now, I will explain to you, Your Honors, the peace and ceasefire
mechanisms since 1997 to 2015.

This is the three pillars of peace

process including the peace panel. We have the security component


and also the humanitarian or the rehabilitation and development
component. I will concentrate more on the security component.
So on the GPH, MILF, CCCH our main function is to coordinate
ceasefire

implementation,

breakdown of ceasefire.

conduct

quick

reactions

during

the

And then conduct fact finding after the

ceasefire.
On the AHJAG portion, its core function is law enforcement, to
coordinate the law enforcement on areas where there are MILF
communities.
And then also we have the local monitoring teams and the GCMP
on the different parts of the conflict-affected areas, especially the
potential flashpoints.

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And then we have the IMT. In the IMT we have four team sites.
We have in Zamboanga, team site three.

We have Team Site 2 in

Lanao and Team Site 1 in Central Mindanao and Team Site 4 in


General Santos.
And then next. This is how the ceasefire mechanism operates.
At the top level we would try to dissociate what is happening on the
ground by providing a very good environment for peace negotiation to
push through.
So at the tactical level we have the AHJAG and the local
monitoring teams and the joint ceasefire monitoring teams working
hand-in-hand.
So as we can see, on the left side, we have the GPH-CCCH, and
on the right side is the MILF-CCCH component and at the middle is the
IMT, the International Monitoring Team.
Next.
Because of this efficacy of the mechanism, as you can see, after
the 2000 conflict in Abubakar, we have seen it increased the violence
incidence to 698 to 569 during the years of 2002 and 2003. In 2003
we have the Buliok conflict. Then after that, we integrated the IMT in
the ceasefire and now you can see the efficacy of the IMT. After the

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IMT has been in place, we have a very low occurence of open hostilities
with the MILF.
And then again, the MOA-AD scenario wherein it escalate to 216
again, wherein the IMT withdrew from its post. Then afterwards, after
the IMT reestablished again in 2010, it increased the confidence
building. It is what was in 2009 that we have signed, the AFP signed
the SOMO.
2009.

I drafted the SOMO when I was the chief operations in

And then it was reflected with the confidence building of the

declaration of SOMA by the MILF.


Then onwards, we have zero occurence of open conflict with the
MILF until the Mamasapano incident.
Next.
The challenges and realities. Since 1995 to 2010, in this period
the AFP suffered 256 dead and more than 526 wounded during the
encounter in Basilan due to Pintakasi complex. This Pintakasi can be
explained asthis is a Muslim community concept of local territories,
that the military and the PNP cannot enter without prior coordination.
This is also in understanding.../sglr

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MR. GALVEZ.

This is also in understanding with the old

concept of Islamic order. So, as said by our good attorney that we


have to understand the complexities of the Mindanao conflict based on
the Islamic world order.
And then in order to resolve the issue on the Mangandan
incident, we conducted a tripartite meeting in Davao. The encounter
was in April 11, 2014 and we immediately conducted the joint meeting
in Davao City in 21 so that to resolve the issue on these challenges.
And these are the joint communications that we had. The IMT, the
CCCH and the AHJAG had a meeting during those times.
Next.
So,

during

the

meeting

which

were

participated

by

the

participants, there is a joint resolution that we have signed. There


should be a strong coordination between the AFP and the BIAF to
prevent any ceasefire violation.
Then second, strong cooperation and partnership to isolate,
interdict and neutralize the ASG and BIFF and lawless elements. We
call it now the mushroom diplomacy because of the complexities of
the security arrangement.

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And then also, the IMT to play a significant role in education and
harmonizing the relationship of the MILF-BIAF and the Philippine
security forces.
In order to prevent another Mamasapano incident, the CCCH is
recommending the following recommended strategies: So, we have to
adopt the strategic offensive containment as a national policy. After
the Mamasapano incident, we never had a national policy in order to
contain the effects of the Mamasapano incident. Meaning, the strategic
offensive containment is based on broad diplomatic strategies and
focused military operations and massive development initiatives in
affected areas in Mamasapano. Because after the offensive in
Mamasapano, we have more than 123,000 evacuees. And more than
3,800 MILF-BIAF had been repositioned away from their families since
February 27 until now. They are still on their evacuation sites receiving
DSWD supplies.
And then also the second is the shifting from ceasefire violation
prevention to partnership. Meaning, we will become more proactive.
And we are doing this, operationalizing this in 104th Brigade, 103rd
Brigade, 602nd Brigade and 604th Mechanized Brigade and 2nd
Mechanized Brigade. And now, we are introducing this to 604th
Brigade.
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And then the transitional--the shifting of ceasefire violation is in


consonance with our normalization process.
Next.
And this is the transitional normalization structure that has been
given to us by OPAPP wherein the security component, we will be
establishing the JPSC or the Joint Peace Security Committee and the
Joint Peace and Security Team in line with the enhancement of the
AHJAG and the CCCH and with the different team sites and the local
monitoring teams. It will work hand-in-hand with the three other
functions on socioeconomic, this joint assessment of the deployment
and the confidence building measures.
Next.
In order to strengthen tactical control. This is the issue now that
have been lodged to us considering that there is a question on the
control on the lower echelon. And with this, we have already taken
some actions, sir.
So, with that, we are now introducing the ceasefire protocols at
the brigade. PPO, meaning the provincial police office and the base
command levels. This is to withhold the time lag that have been
experienced in the Mamasapano incident. Meaning, through the
implementation at the brigade level, the time delay of the information
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will be removed. Meaning, it will not be centralized anymore in order to


impose a ceasefire. So, meaning, the brigade commander and the base
commander can talk and implement a ceasefire as we are doing this in
Basilan with the brigade commander of 104th talking with the 114th
brigade commander.
We have an operation two days ago and they are the one only
talking without the intervention of the central committee and the
CCCH. So, the operation is being conducted by the LGUs, by the PNP
and the AFP without any intervention from the central CCCH and the
AHJAG. They are operating on their own. They are controlling the
movements of the MILF through the local AHJAG and the LMPs and the
JCMPs. And I think this is very, very effective because the time is very
real. The time component here is very real.
And then also to strengthen tripartite meetings with the CCCH,
AHJAG and the IMT, we will do it this month so that we will have the
revision of the protocols.
And then also we will establish a redundant communication
system. We will have some sort of a hotline so that if there will be a
bog

down

on

one

communication,

there

will

be

another

two

communications or three communications that will hold on.

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And then also we will use both LGUs, the PNP and the NGOs in
the implementation of the ceasefire through the LMPs and JCMPs. We
have seen that the weakness of the CCCH before is the PNP is not
onboard in the ceasefire mechanism. Now, we will have them onboard
with the LGUs because we know that the mayors and the LGUs have
more control on the other civilian counterpart or the other parties not
in party with the ceasefire.
And then also the establishment of the protocols on the LEO
against the so that to preclude any misconception on the 24 hours
component. So, we will recommend to the panel for the new protocols
only on the HVI.
And then lastly, is to further strengthen the MILFs CCCH and the
AHJAG mechanisms of the MILF counterpart. I think this is the
weakness that we had. We have to strengthen the MILFs CCCH and
AHJAG components including their LUPs.
Then lastly, on the recommended legal remedies, we have to
revisit the Human Security Act. The Human Security Act does not
conform with the other modern counterterrorism act.
In Singapore, wherein there is no bombing, there is no terrorist
attack that happened, they employ the strategy of cultural harmony.
There are four races, four cultures that have been mixed in Singapore.
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And they are espousing cultural harmony and cultural resiliency.


Cultural resiliency means that if a Muslim conducted or commit an
offense, they will not make it as some sort of a generalized it is
committed by a Muslim or what. It has to be committed by an
individual.
So, this strategy is being propagated by Malaysia, Indonesia,
Thailand and even Russia.
During our meeting in NDU with the conference, we have studied
about the soft and the hard component of counterterrorism. And this is
one of the best presentations that we saw, the National Defense
University 2012 conference that we had from 2 to 7 of April.
Then also revisit the employment of SAF in areas dominated by
various heavily armed group in military operational areas.
Ladies and gentlemen, Your Honors, it is sad to say that if we will
not change the mindset of the SAF, we will have another Mamasapano
incident again. Because there should be a clear delineation on how
they will operate or where do they will operate dominantly and how
there will be joint operations.
I believe the experience of the US in Desert One, we should take
this lesson. The failure of the Iranian security wherein there is a law
that imposes joint operations and remove service rivalry.
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And lastly, the possible adoption of community oriented policing


strategyproblem oriented policing which is being implemented by
Great Britain, US, Singapore and Japan. It is similar to the AFP-IPSP
Bayanihan wherein the security component is being resolved in partner
with the community.
In getting Marwan, the community is not involved. In here, we
had a lot of experience. And I believe if we will adopt this community
policy which had been practiced by first world countries/rommel

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MR. GALVEZ. by first world countries, I believe, we might


reduce the occurrence of another Mamasapano incident. Because it is
the

committee, like the two-days encounter that we have, it is the

LGU that initiated the attack against the terrorists in Tuburan, in


Basilan.
I believe thats all, Your Honors. Ceasefire po tayo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). General, thank you for your
presentation.
Before we entertain questions, Id like toBecause we are
running out of time, to move to the

International Monitoring Team.

Because as has been explained in the presentation given by General


Galvez, we are literally central to all of these activities especially in a
crisis like we had in Mamasapano.
So I have read the report of the International Monitoring Team
and you did touch upon some of the elements that were involved in
Mamasapano specifically on putting the two sides together to initiate a
ceasefire.

So

perhaps,

who

would

speak

for

the

International

Monitoring Team? Mr. Hovland, will you be the spokesman for today?
MR. HOVLAND. Yes, Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Perhaps you could give us
some more details as to what were the events that transpired between
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the start of the fighting which was again, more or less, 4 oclock, 4:30
a.m., 25 January, until the time that the IMT got involved in trying to
put together a ceasefire. That way, we can establish, at least, again
this timeline as a baseline for us to work with.
So, Mr. Hovland, if you could please maybe flesh out some of the
events that your report has mentioned.
MR. HOVLAND. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Your Honor, good morning. Before I proceed with your question,
I would request that we clarify the IMTs role here in this hearing. The
three factors that might be important now is the diplomatic aspect or
neutrality aspect and who we report to.
First, I know its rather unusual to invite foreigners to a hearing.
The International Monitoring Team consists of five contributing
nations. I myself from Norway and we have Malaysia, Brunei, Japan
and Indonesia and we are led by Major General Dato Sheik Muksin.
So I am appointed here in the Philippines, the diplomatic status
and in addition, all the members of IMT also have diplomatic immunity
in our terms or reference.
So second, most importantly, the IMT are here as a neutral and
impartial body respected by both the government and the MILF and we

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cannot risk our neutrality by making statements that can be viewed or


misunderstood as biased by any of the parties.
So

in turn, the IMTs according to our terms

of reference,

reporting to the Joint GPH and MILF Peace Panel. So even though there
are diplomatic neutrality and reporting aspects having us here, we
have chosen to be represented to show sincerity and our support to
the peace process.
So regarding to your question about the timeline, as I heard
General Galvez said that after this session, we will go through together
and make a timeline. I was there during that day so I have also my
own experiences
that we have

but you were referring to our report. And its true

delivered our report on the ceasefire

violations on

Mamasapano incident and this report is delivered to the joint peace


panel. Im not sure if I can quote anything from that report if its not
clarified with the Joint GPH and MILF Peace Panel.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, perhaps, especially
since you were personally there during the day, perhaps you could
explain to us exactly the role played by the IMT when you started to
play that role on the day and what were the effects of the interventions
that you had made. We are precisely counting on your objectivity as a
third party in between the MILF and the Philippine government. So that
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is why we are trying to shed some light precisely on what were the
events that happened

and to find ways, as I said, to shorten the

timeline.
So please, Mr. Hovland, whatever youre able to contribute will
be most useful to the Committee.
MR. HOVLAND. Well, if the peace panel agree, I would be glad
to

make a timeline for you. I have written timeline to make this

precise. I think thats important. But I can say in short that very day,
we were contacted first by our counterpart in the MILF CCCH, Rashid
Ladiasan, about the

ongoing firefight. And then, we met in the IMT

headquarter and we tried to figure out and got the information about
the happening.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Mr. Hovland, could you give
us a time for that? I have from these various reports that we had
received from various agencies, the first mention of the IMT was, at
7:30 a.m., Major

Sol of the GPH-CCCH contacted the International

Monitoring Team.
Is that consistent with your records as to what happened?
MR. HOVLAND. That is correct. Major Sol called me that
morning.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And that was at 7:30 a.m.,


more or less?
MR. HOVLAND. Yes, approximately. And as I said if you want,
we can foretell our precise timeline if thats agreed upon by the peace
panel.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, I think 7:30 is a very
reasonably accurate time. Of course, a more accurate time would be
welcome. But for now, lets use that as the working number until we
have that more detailed report since no one is disputing it. Major Sol is
also here. This is from the report of the AFP. So we can assure 7:30
a.m., the Major contacted you. It so happens it was you specifically.
Could you tell us then what were the actions taken by the International
Monitoring Team, I understand,

together with the AHJAGs and the

CCCH?
MR. HOVLAND. As I just said, Im glad to make maybe a more
precise timeline about the happenings and the actions taken to you if
only agreed upon by the peace panel.
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Your Honor, also for the information

of the IMT, we have provided your Committee with a copy of the IMT
report. And as far as the government panel is concerned, we have no

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objection

to

Mr.

Hovland

providing

this

Committee

with

any

information that might be asked of him.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you.
So, Mr. Hovland, you have the agreement of the peace panel. So
perhaps we can start to unravel again the activities, the interventions
that were taken not only by the IMT but the IMT together with the
AHJAGs and the CCCH of both the Republic of the Philippines side and
the MILF side.
MR. IQBAL. On the part of the MILF Peace Panel, you know, we
have submitted our official report and I think there is no problem
about restating what is in the report.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Chairman.
What we would like, as I said, you touched upon some of the
actions taken but not inasmuch detail as perhaps would be needed to
use for whatever amendments we would like to put into the BBL
concerning this specific kind of situation. So if you could provide that,
that will be necessary for the Committee.
For the information of everyone, we will go around the table.
Eventually, I would like to ask also the MILF what happened on their
end and sit there so that we have a view. We have a 360-degree view
of the events on 25 January in Mamasapano.

We had started with


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General Galvez, the CCCH of the Philippine government, now

Mr.

Hovland.
MR. HOVLAND. Okay. From our report /ngdizon

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MR. HOVLAND. Okay.

From our report that you were

referring to that is solely on ceasefire relation that is important to me


to say. I can sum up our main message or our recommendation to the
parties is that they have to observe and follow the existing protocols in
the ceasefire mechanism.

And then there are operations conducted.

There has to be coordination, prior coordination.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Senator Guingona has a

question too.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Yes. Mr. Hovland, you
mentioned prior coordination.

And General Galvez, you said there

must beyoull change the protocol for the LEOs, for the HBTs.
MR. GALVEZ. Your Honors, after the Congress hearing and also
with the Senate report and the report of the BOI, we have seenthere
is contentious issues on the LEO on HBT pertaining prior coordination
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Prior coordination.
MR. GALVEZ.

Prior coordination with the HBT with that 24

hours provision.
THE

CHAIRMAN

(SEN.

MARCOS).

That

actually

was

highlighted in the report of the International Monitoring Team that the


interpretation of the exemption for the 24 hours notice was different
from the interpretation of the CCCH, for example, and the SAF. The
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SAF interpreted it as it was no longer necessary.

Whereas, the

interpretation of the CCCH specifically is that if there is still a need for


coordination, but it doesnt have to be as much as 24 hours. So, thats
where perhaps we can clarify that and revisit that particular issue.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Yes. But, Mr. Chairman,
Id like to point out that at this point, the word prior coordination was
there. So, whatever it is, no matter how you interpret that, its a prior
coordination.

Ang nangyari dito, walang prior coordination.

The

protocol was totally disregarded because when there was already


coordination, when General Orense received the telephone call that
there was already a firefight. What time was that, General Orense?
MR. ORENSE. 5:37, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).

5:37 a.m.

So, there

was no prior coordination. Whatever protocol we bring up, whatever


protocol we refine, the point is it has to be followed.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yes, Senator Guingona.

But again, the interpretation differs. And as far as the SAF position is,
there was no need for prior coordination according to their reading of
that exemption.

That is their position.

And that is why we need to

clarify that, in particular.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Yes, Mr. Chairman. We


agree with what you said that thats the interpretation of the PNP.
But, however, wed like to take note that the PNP never, never, never
participated in the drafting of the guidelines, in putting a person to be
a coordinator for the CCCH, for the GPH, for the ad hoc. Its only now
because of this Mamasapano incident that they now promise to put in
some people. So, really they can interpret it whatever way they want
because they were never, never, never involved themselves in the
drafting, in the execution of these different bodies to ensure a
ceasefire.
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Your Honor, may I
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yes.

The question of

whether or not they had complied with the guidelines that were agreed
upon is called into question because they have different interpretations
of those same guidelines.

In their view, they were following the

guideline. We may agree, we may not agree. But that is the position
that they have taken. And that is why the problems were caused.
Id like to get back again since we have gone straight to the
policy discussion. Id like to go back to establish the timeline. Again,
we cannot talk about any of this until we have established that.

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Before I go, I apologize to Senator Bam Aquino as I havent


acknowledged him. He has been sitting here for the last half an hour
and I have not acknowledged his presence in his arrival.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, for the record, Senator
Bam Aquino has been here for half an hour already.
SEN. AQUINO.

I think its because of the number of empty

chairs between us, Mr. Chairman.


Thank you, for acknowledging.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well.
So, let me put whatvery, very condensed version and specific,
not the tactical decisions that were made by SAF, not that the AFP, et
cetera, but simply, the initiation of a ceasefire after the first shots were
fired. And what I have, please let me get to the end of this and then
maybe anybody who wants to comment will do so. 5:37 a.m., si
chairman of GPH-AHJAG could not reach MILF AHJAG. 6:48 a.m.,
called again, still no reply.

7:27 a.m., commander 6th ID, called

chairman GPH-AHJAG, if he has contacted his counterpart.

Latter

informed, that he called by phone but no connection. 7:30 a.m., Major


Sol of GPH-CCCH contacted International Monitoring Team.

7:31,

MILF-AHJAG calls chairman GPH-AHJAG, he will call Darapana. 9 a.m.,


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the Joint Ceasefire Crisis Team was formed.

11:45, JCCT dialogues

with the commander of 105th Brigade Command, Commander Goma.


And then after that, there were some other exchanges. But the next
item is 4 oclock p.m., total ceasefire.

And the total ceasefire is

between the elements of the AFP, of the PNP and the MILF. There was
sporadic shooting but these were identified as coming from the BIFF
elements and other armed groups.
So, can we come to an agreement between all of us here that
that is more or less the timeline? What I would like to fill in because
the last item I have here is 11:45 a.m., the JCCT had already spoken
to the commander of the 105th MILF. And the question that maybe I
could put to the MILF is, why not at that point did the MILF stop
fighting? Because the commander had already been informed that his
troops were fighting against were government troops. So, surely that
would have been a sufficient information for him to order his people to
withdraw from the fight. Because I know that there are reports from
the AFP that around 12 oclock, 1 oclock, pina-withdraw niyo na iyong
mga AFP elements.

The AFP elements that joined up with the other

SAF elements umatras na ng mga 12 oclock, 1 oclock kasi may


ceasefire agreement na daw. Iyong SAF ang hindi gumalaw. So, on

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the AFP side, its clear that there was already an order to withdraw or,
at least, to ceasefire.
What happened on the MILF side, Chairman Iqbal, para malaman
natin what happened after the JCCT had spoken to the commander of
the 105th Commander Goma? And why the fighting continued?
MR. IQBAL. Your Honor, I think that question can be answered
by the chair of the MILF Coordinating Committee on Cessation of
Hostilities and perhaps maybe I can request General Galvez to
supplement.
But anyway, would, Your Honor, permit to focus on the issue of
coordination.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, yes, please go ahead,
yes.
MR. IQBAL. Modesty aside, I think I should be the best person
to be asked about this one because I was the one who signed in behalf
of the MILF about the terms of reference of the Ad Hoc Joint Action
Group.
First, it was signed in 2002 and then 2009 and then 2012. 2009,
I was the one who signed the document. And then 2012, I was the
one who signed the documentcpc

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MR. IQBAL. And then 2012, I was the one who signed the
document together with now Associate Justice Marvic Leonen in 2009.
No, in 2009, it was with Ambassador Seguis. And then in 2012, it was
with Associate Justice Marvic Leonen.
The controversial portion is that it is somewhat except for
operations against high priority targets, a list of which shall be
provided by the GPH panel to the MILF peace panel, the AHJAG shall
inform the GPH and MILF CCCH at least 24 hours prior to the conduct
of the AFP-PNP operations in order to allow sufficient time for the
evacuation of civilians and to avoid armed confrontation between the
GPH and MILF forces.
So, since I am a signatory to this terms of reference of the
AHJAG, modesty aside, I know the literal meaning as well as the
nuance of the agreement. In other words, what I am saying here is
that whether it is an ordinary operations against the targets, there is
such thing as prior coordination even including high value targets.
First, in relation to high value targets, there has to be a list that
shall be provided by the government peace panel to the MILF peace
panel. So, that is the first coordination.
Second, the AHJAG has to be informed about the impending
operation. So, that is the second coordination.
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And then prior coordination any time less than 24 hours.


ordinary case, it has to be at least 24 hours.

For

But for high value

targets, it is within that 24 hours. So, in all situations, there has to be


a prior coordination. And in this regard, during the hearing about the
Mamasapano incident, I wrote a letter to the senators, including you,
Your Honor, and it was coursed through Senator Grace Poe and this is
my explanation. If you permit me, Your Honor, I will read it. This is a
very short letter just to shed light on this one.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, go ahead, Chairman.
MR. IQBAL. That was February 23, 2015.

The Honorable Senators


Senate of the Philippines
GSIS Building, Financial Center
Roxas Blvd., Pasay City
Through: Senator Grace Poe
Chairperson, Committee on
Dangerous Drugs

Public

Order

and

Dear Honorable Senators:


This refers to the discussion in the Senate on
whether or not prior coordination with the Ad Hoc Joint
Action Group is required in cases of operation of
government forces against high value priority target.
As a co-signatory to the 2012 implementing
guidelines of the Ad Hoc Joint Action Group on May 6,
2002, I would like to state the mutual understanding
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between the government peace panel chair, now associate


justice to the Supreme Court, Marvic Leonen, on a
controversial provision relating to prior coordination
between the GPH and AHJAG security mechanisms in the
case of law enforcement operations against high value
targets. This said provision reads as follows:
Except for operations against high value
targets, a list of which shall be provided by the
GPH panel to the MILF peace panel.
The
AHJAG shall inform the GPH and the MILF
CCCH at least 24 hours prior to the conduct of
the AFP-PNP operations in order to allow
sufficient time for the evacuation of civilians
and to avoid armed confrontation between the
GPH and MILF forces.
We submit that the above-mentioned exemption
refers to the length of time during which the AHJAG will
inform the coordinating committee on the cessation of
hostilities in order to allow sufficient time for the
evacuation of civilians and to avoid armed confrontation
between the GPH and MILF forces.
This refers to coordination from one ceasefire
mechanism which is the AHJAG to another which is the
CCCH. Hence, it presupposes that coordination between
the operating law enforcement unit of government and the
government chair of the Ad Hoc Joint Action Group has
already been done.
Therefore, the next steps to be undertaken by the
government AHJAG chair are:
1.
To inform his MILF AHJAG counterpart
accordingly within a reasonable time as prudence dictates;
and
2. Inform the CCCH at least 24 hours before the
operation in ordinary cases or less than 24 hours before

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the launching of operation against high value priority


targets.
This understanding and interpretation has been the
operational procedure followed by operating units in the
ground since the establishment of AHJAG in 2002.
The faithful compliance of this provision is the
reason why there is no recorded armed extremist between
the government and MILF forces since October 2001 AlBarka incident until January 2015 when the Mamasapano
incident occurred.
We hope
coordination.

this

helps

clarify

the

provision

on

I signed this letter.


In short, I would repeat, whether it is ordinary case or high value
targets, there must be a prior coordination.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Okay.

Chairman, we are

familiar with those provisions in the agreement.


Senator Aquino has some questions before the Chair-SEN. AQUINO. Yes, very quickly to the members of the peace
panel.
So, is it the official position that the lack of coordination is a
breach in terms of the set agreements between the MILF and the
government of the Philippines?
So, is it your official position that there was a breach in the
agreements?
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MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

On that specific aspect of the

ceasefire agreement, the matter of coordination, yes, Your Honor.


From the very beginning, that has been our position.
SEN. AQUINO. And is that also shared by the IMT that there
was a breach in the agreement because of the lack of coordination with
the mechanisms in place?
MR. HOVLAND.

Your Honor, yes.

I think you can see that

depends on the interpretation of the agreement.

But IMTs stand is

that we think it was a breach. Yes.


SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Im sorry my eyes are not as good as
they should be. I cannot see the name of the PNP representative. Is
that Vil-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Villacorte.
SEN. AQUINO. Villacorte. Okay.
Police Chief Superintendent Villacorte, it is still the position of the
PNP that there was no breach, ano? Is that the position? So, this is
the difference in interpretation that we are talking about.
MR. VILLACORTE. I havent talked to our command troop as to
the position of the PNP yet, sir.
SEN. AQUINO.

If I am not mistaken, Mr. Chairman, in the

previous hearings on the Mamasapano incident, I think it was General


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Napeas who had mentioned that their interpretation is that there was
no

breach

in

prior

information, TOT, ano?

coordination

because

they

had--given

the

If I am not mistaken, that was what was

stated.
Would you concur, Mr. Chairman?
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Well, for the most part.

But I think to be absolutely clear, the position that General Napeas


took was that because of the exemption in that provision that there
was no need, in fact, for prior coordination.

But it is now being

contested by many of the other--the OPAPP, the CCCH-SEN. AQUINO. And the AFP, and the IMT.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Even the IMT.

He has

mentioned that that was a violation although they are very even
handed in their analysis. That is the position. But I dont know if it is
the PNP in general but certainly that was the one that was explained to
the Committee during the Mamasapano hearings by General Napeas.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). So, Mr. Chairman, with
the indulgence of Senator--I just wanted to clear. So, there is no such
thing as an exemption.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, there is.
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). There is.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, it is very clear, it says
that except for high value targets. Now-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). No, that is an exemption
from the 24-hour rule but not an exemption for prior coordination.
Two concepts.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). That is the interpretation of
one and another. That is why that sounds--I think we are getting to
the point here. That is the interpretation that they have used whether
or not, again, whether or not we agree with it is something else. But
as Senator Bam Aquino has been trying to clarify, that is the
interpretation that General Napeas relied upon.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, two points.
One is, can we get clarity, Police Chief Superintendent Villacorte,
if that is just General Napeas opinion or is that the PNP position? I
dont know if you can answer that today but definitely there will be
more hearings. So, if we could get an official position from the PNP
regarding that matter.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). What would be indicative-actually I would like to ask General Galvez, you know, in the previous
hearings we were given a list of previous operations against.../hsg
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). list of previous operations


against the so-called Marwan.

There were 10 of them.

In any of

those previous operations, did they coordinate before or was there


never any coordination?
MR. GALVEZ. Some of the operation.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Some mayroon? Iyong iba
mayroon, yung iba wala.
MR. GALVEZ. Some of the operations that they have said that
they were not supported by the AFP and aborted, they have prior
coordination.

But I believe, on my recollection, the operations that

they conducted in Lanao and also one operation in Maguindanao was


not coordinated.

In fact iyong nangyari po sa Maguindanao parang

eksaktong-eksakto po iyong nangyari po sa Mamasapano.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

General, eksaktong-

eksakto iyong nangyari sa?


MR. GALVEZ.

During the time of the police operations of the

ARMM before.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Sampu itoOplan Pitas,

Oplan Smartbomb, Wolverine, Cyclops, Cyclops 2, Wolverine 2,


Wolverine 3, Terminator, Terminator 2, and finally, Exodus. At alam
natin iyong Exodus, hindi sila nag-coordinate; pero iyong iba, iyong
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siyam,

iyong

coordination?

iba

may

coordination

naman

ang

PNP.

Prior

Huwag na muna nating pag-usapan iyong kung 24

hours o hindi pero may coordination.


MR. GALVEZ. Sir, based doon sa records namin, sir, wala pong
coordination talaga.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So that has always been

the
MR. GALVEZ. The practice.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). iyong kanilang SOP?
MR. GALVEZ. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Dahil nga sa kanilang
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Dahil nga sa kanilang

interpretation.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, if I may just finish my point.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead,
Senator Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO.

General Galvez, during the times ho na

nagkaroon ng operations iyong PNP before Exodus at nalaman ho


ninyo na walang prior coordination, did you call their attention to this
already?
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MR. GALVEZ. Sir, actually, sir, during our initial investigation,


we conferred with the previous commanders of 6th Division and in fact,
one of the division commanders told me that the SAF insisted on three
occasions that they will operate on the same area against Marwan.
SEN. AQUINO.

Oho.

My question is, so this has been

happening over years, ano?


MR. GALVEZ. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO.

At nalaman ho ninyo na may mga operations

ang PNP na walang coordination. Did you call their attention at that
time and say, Uy, mayroon tayong agreement.

We have an

agreement. We have a ceasefire in place, were currently doing peace


talks, you should coordinate with us?
Was there ever any time that you called their attention kasi, you
know
MR. ORENSE. Sir, may I answer that, sir?
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. Go ahead, General Orense.
MR. ORENSE. Yes, sir. Actually, sir, what you were saying, the
dates of October, November, December, sir, they have not notified
even the AHJAG, sir, but unfortunately, sir, we have not called their
attention on that because once they went to the place to operate, right

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there and then they also get out. So basically, sir, I have no contact
with them. Honestly, sir, thats my shortfall.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. ORENSE. And regarding, sir, the knowledge of the PNP, sir,
we have here, sir, the Revised Joint AFP-PNP Operational Guidelines for
the Ad Hoc Joint Action Group which was signed by then Police Director
General Alan Purisima and General Emmanuel Bautista, the chief of
staff, on 23rd day of July 2013.

It embodied, sir, the controversial

provision wherein it states here the except for operations, sir.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Except for high-value

targets.
MR. ORENSE.

Yes, sir.

Except for operations against high

priority targets.
Sir, I think the context of this is the coordination should only be
between the AHJAG and the CCCH. Its not within the operating units
and the AHJAG.
So with that, sir, the succeeding paragraphs, letter (g) and letter
(h), Hot pursuit operations, operating unit should inform the AHJAG.
Cases of implementation of search warrants, AFP-PNP units coordinate
with AHJAG or inform the AHJAG.

So these three or these two

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succeeding will say that there is really a need for a coordination, Your
Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Sorry, General, para lang malinaw, what youre
saying is iyong konteksto noong exemption is not with regard to AFP
and PNP.
MR. ORENSE.

Yes, sir.

That was the one being explained by

Professor Ferrer in Congress a few days ago.


SEN. AQUINO.

Thank you, General, but I would like also to

know kung ano iyong official position ng PNP on this matter.


Police Chief Superintendent Villacorte, if you cannot answer
todayCan you answer today or will you have to
MR. VILLACORTE. No, sir. I have to refer it to our
SEN. AQUINO. Oho. So ang tanong ko lang po kung puwede
lang malinaw, ito hong interpretation ni General Napeas which was
that you didnt need to coordinate prior to the operations, is that the
official interpretation and position of the PNP or was that just his
interpretation? Gusto ko lang hong malinawan doon.
My last question, Mr. Chairmanand thank you for giving me
this timeis for Secretary Deles, and Professor Ferrer, and Chairman
Iqbal.

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Ngayon po na masabi na ho natin mayroong hindi paglilinaw


doon sa interpretation, are we going to amend the current agreement
to make it more clear?

Have we already done that to ensure that

another Mamasapano incident will not happen again? Have we already


included the PNP? Kasi ho when General Galvez was presenting, hindi
ko makita iyong PNP doon sa mga kausap, puro AFP lang.

Are we

already including the PNP in terms of operations on the ground?


MR. GALVEZ.

Sir, after the recommendation that we have

already
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

Excuse me, Your Honor, may I

explain?
The PNP has sat in all of the teams. The AHJAG team site, there
are PNP officers there and since last year, the PNP created the PNP
focal team led by General Ingking who has been working with us
consistently.

Therefore, I just like to point out that the Board of

Inquiry report already affirmed the matter of prior coordination and the
mother document for that which the BOI report cited is the 1997 Peace
Agreement and that is the specific article on Article II, Actions
Exempted from Cessation of Hostilities. It says here, Confrontational
situations between the GRP and MILF forces shall be avoided by prior
coordination with the latter during police and military actions, activities
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that will be continued throughout Mindanao in the pursuit of the


following

aspects:

police

actions

such

as

preventive

patrols,

investigations, arrest, searches.


SEN. AQUINO.

Professor, youre saying na kasama naman

talaga ang PNP all throughout.


MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Kasama po.
SEN. AQUINO. But I remember in one of the
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. At saka iyong BOI report din in-affirm
po iyong need for prior coordination.
SEN. AQUINO.

Yes.

That they need to be there.

But I

remember in the first few hearings that there was a statement made
that the PNP was not sending
MS. DELES. They have not sent senior officials that were being
requested, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. But there were officials there
MS. DELES.

But always the composition especially of AHJAG

team because it is law enforcement it has


SEN. AQUINO. Has a PNP member.
MS. DELES.

It has PNP, but PNP had not been sending the

appropriately high ranking

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SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

So my question earlier is: Have we

already done measures to correct that? Is PNP already sending senior


officials? Have we changed the language so that it can be free from
misinterpretation, if ever it is misinterpretation?

Have we done that

already, Professor?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER. Thank you, Your Honor.
Two of the remedial measures that were undertaken to enhance
the coordination with the PNP was number one, to go through a series
of workshops together with the PNP that led to the signing of the letter
directive that was cited by General Orense earlier that happened in
July 2013, and the signatory to that joint letter directive was none
other than the former PNP Chief of Staff Alan Purisima and the former
AFP Chief of Staff Emmanuel Bautista. That was number one, sir.
Number two, latter part of last year, the PNP designated a PNP
Focal Team made up of five senior police officers that will be
coordinating with the Office of the Presidential Adviser on the Peace
Process and all of these matters. But otherwise, since the creation of
the AHJAG, the PNP has sent officers on different levels. 1) the AHJAG
Core Team which is the coordinating body.

So its made up of the

chair who has always come from AFP but other members of the Core
Team are PNP officers, and then the Team sites that are located in
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different areas of Mindanao where a counterpart PNP and a counterpart


AFP are designated team site officers. So that has been the practice,
Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, just a follow-up.
Have you spoken to the focal team, the PNP Focal Team after
Mamasapano?

Did they mention that they failed to coordinate?

Are

they here?
MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

General Ingking is here.

He heads

this Focal Team but if I will refer back to the findings of the BOI, they
did say that this matter was not observed, the prior coordination rule
in the ceasefire agreement which is very clear, and then also that
matter relating to the AHJAG. So I think that is one of the findings of
the BOI.

And the fact is that Oplan Exodus did say that the

coordination should be done with the followingincluding the AFP,


including the AHJAG, and including the Ceasefire Committee/cbg

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MS. CORONEL-FERRER.

and

including

the

Ceasefire

Committee. But then again, the decision was to do it time on target.


However, if we look at the timelines, we will find that the information
happened perhaps one hour or more after the time on target and that
is where all the difficulties have arisen, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).

Thank you, Senator Bam

Aquino.
We have actually gone beyond our time allotted here. But before
we end, I would like to go back again to the specific details and I had
intended earlier to go to Mr. Ladiasan because he was the one on the
ground. In fact, it was his testimony that gave us some of the details
that we have and that we are using to base all of these discussions.
So Mr. Ladiasan, I will pose to you the question that I posed to
Chairman Iqbal. What happened after 11:45 when the Joint Ceasefire
Crisis Team had already met with the commander of 105th and why did
the ceasefire not occur at that time or very soon after?
MR. LADIASAN.

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa

barakatuh.
Mr. Chairman, Your Honors, if I may be allowed, before I answer
the question that Ill be narrating the information on the facts, the

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term of events from early morning and even the day prior, so well be
able to trace, relate the earlier incidents before that.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).

Mr. Ladiasan, as much

detail as you can recollect would be useful to the Committee.


MR. LADIASAN.
Honors.

Maraming salamat po, Mr. Chairman, Your

And with the permission of Chairman Iqbal and the two

panels.
Noong January 24 po, magkasama po kaming nasa mechanism
lahat, CCCH, at nandoon po kami sa Iligan at we were assisting the
activities of the independent decommissioning body working as part of
the normalization process on the decommissioning of the MILF
combatants and firearms.

So magkasama po kaming lahat noon.

Naiwan po sina General Galvez at saka si Major Sol, counterpart po


namin.

Umuwi po ako noong hapon dahil umuwi po iyong MILF,

kailangan po naming samahan at dumating po kami nang gabi na. At


wala ho kaming kaalam-alam po na at that time na mayroon pong
mangyayari at we are very confident po na walang mangyayari sa
susunod na araw.
Pero noong early morning po, noong January 25, Mr. Chairman,
Your Honors, na-receive ko po ang call ng mga around quarter to six in
the morning from Ustadz Zacaria Goma, the base commander of the

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105th base command.

Hindi ko po nahabol iyong call niya dahil

natutulog ako at early morning after sembahyang kasi po pagod po


ako. Pero noong nakita ko na siyang tumawag, sumunod po doon is
ang kanyang text message na sinabi niya sa Maguindanaon, Mr.
Chairman
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).
MR. LADIASAN.

Anong oras iyon?

A minute later ho, iyong phone is around

5:45.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN MARCOS).

Oo, sige.

Tama.

Consistent itong
MR. LADIASAN.

Immediately, mayroon na siyang sinend

(send) na text dahil hindi kami nagkausap. Sabi niya, Nagkabarilan,


nagkaputukan, sa dialect namin, dito sa Tukanalipao ang tropa ng
105th pati sundalo.

Tinawagan ko po siya kasi hindi ko ho siya

nakausap. Tinawagan ko po siya na ano ba ang nangyayari. Sinabi


niya nga na nagkaputukan at humihingi siya ng advice, ano po ang
gagawin dito. So sabi ko iva-validate ko ho muna. I-verify ko muna
sa lahat ng contacts namin including the counterparts at hihingi din po
tayo ng advice.

So tinawagan ko na po si Ustadz Wahid Tundok ng

118th Base Command at saka iyong JCMP namin sa Kitango which is


the Joint Ceasefire Monitoring Post as early monitoring response unit

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under sa CCCH kung ano po ang nangyayari dahil under po sa AOR nila
iyon at vinalidate (validate) po nila, kinonfirm (confirm) po nila na may
nangyayari doon sa Tukanalipao.
Sumunod po doon ay kumuha rin po ako ng guidance sa
Darapanan.

Ang advice po sa akin ng general staff sa Darapanan is

Coordinate with your counterpart, hindi maganda ang nangyari pero


kailangan trabahuhin ninyo itong ceasefire. Ganun po ang sinabi sa
akin. Immediately after that, iyon na nga ho, nag-text na ho ako kina
General Galvez and Major Sol
THE

CHAIRMAN

(SEN

MARCOS).

Again,

iyong

oras

importante.
So anong oras iyong conversation niyo sa Darapanan kung saan
binanggit ang kanyang instruction to coordinate with your counterpart?
What time was that?
MR. LADIASAN.

If my recollection is correct, its around 6:15

before I communicated with Major Sol and General Galvez. Then una
ko hong tinext (text) sabay iyong multiple sending ng text messages
as what appeared in our narration, kasi ito po ginawa po ng CCCH,
GPH at saka MILF, ito po iyong narration of timelines and incidents. At
sumunod po doon at tinranslate (translate) ko ng English, tinext ko po
ang IMT which was actually William was actually mentioning na na-

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receive nila iyong information sa akin.

And then nandiyan na po sa

kuwan, ang sabi ko si-ceasefire natin.

Pero iyong sa advice po ni

Ustadznagkausap po kami after ng send ko ng text messages kay


Major Sol saka ni General Galvez, nagkausap po kami ng base
command

at

sabi

ko,

We

are

already

coordinating

with

our

counterpart. At sabi ko sa kanila, Kinakailangan nating i-ceasefire at


huwag na natin itong palakihin. Iyong dalawang base commander po,
si Ustadz Zacaria Goma at saka siI mean, si Ustadz Wahid Tundok,
iyong 118th Base Command, ang sabi niya, Wala namang problema sa
amin. We can work on that. Pero kailangan pumunta kayo sa area.
Kasi ang precedence po nito, ang ginagawa po namin sa CCCH is
kailangan talaga namin ng actual presence on the ground para mawork

out

namin

effectively

iyong

mapagkakasunduan

naming

arrangement to effect the ceasefire.


So dahil nag-communicate na rin angang alam kong sunod na
advice is we will at IMT, iyong CCCH, and dumating na ho kami doon
ng mga around 9:00 sa IMT headquarter sa Cotabato. Kailangan po
namin itong i-explain nagusto namin talaga as soon as possible na
puntahan na namin ang area. Pero at that time, since early morning
at saka noong 24 pa disorganized na kami, wala kaming information,
hindi kami magkakasama; iyong ibang kasama namin nasa malayo.

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Ako lang yata at that time ang nasa Cotabato plus the IMT na nasa
Cotabato. Pero we made it at 9:00 na nandoon na ho kami sa IMT at
after that we proceeded toand before that sinasabi nga namin na
pupunta kami sa area. Iyon din ang sinabi namin sa IMT na we will go
to the area to meet with the commanders and talk to them how we can
effect the ceasefire kasi kailangan nila iyong presence namin sa
ground.
Dumating po kami doon ng around 11:30, sa recollection namin,
sa

bahay

ni

Ustadz

Zacaria

Goma.

Pero

while

on

the

way,

nagkakatawagan po kami na, we are on the way at we will work on


the ceasefire sa incident ng Mamasapano. Pero hindi ho namin talaga
alam ano talaga iyong extentI mean, iyong disposition ng forces,
anong nangyari sa ground other sa sinasabi sa amin na nagkaputukan
ng early, una kaming binaril ng pulis at naging close encounter na.
At we are catching up on time dahil hindi kami nga organized pero
from the very start magkakasama po kami, hindi po kami mag-iiwanan
ng counterpart naminAHJAG, CCCH at saka IMTdahil iyon iyong
protocol namin na sama-sama kami sa lahat ng gagawin namin. Hindi
puwedeng isa lang at weve been effective doing that way.
So at around 12:00, nagkausap-usap po kami/cmn

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MR. LADIASAN.

nagkausap-usap po kami noong si Ustadz

Wahid Tundok at saka ni Ustadz Zacaria Goma doon sa bahay ni


Ustadz Zacaria Goma na napagkasunduan namin na we will ceasefire
na and then pupunta kami sa area, kakausapin iyong both sides.

Ang

pupunta sa kabila ay si Commander Wahid, sa side ng 105th Base


Command at saka sa MILF troop doon sa na-engage at kami naman
pupunta sa Tuka which is it will take us maybe at least 20 minutes to
travel from the residence of Ustadz Zacaria Goma.

At ang kasunduan

namin noon as soon as ma-explain namin sa kanila iyong gagawin


namin is pupunta kami sa Tukanalipao where the fighting was
happeningwas ensuing. So while on the way sa amin mayroon
kaming naririnig na putukan pa din. And noong nandun kami sa Tuka,
doon sa area na mayroong sundalo ng 45th at saka SAF-PNP, Ustadz
Wahid communicated to us na iyong grupo niya na supposed to be na
papasok sa area ng Tukanalipao at kakausapin iyong MILF was under
fire.

So ang sabi namin is isi-ceasefire natin iyong putukan sa Ustadz

Wahid at na-ceasefire ngayon at nag-proceed na siya sa area. Kami


naman andun kami saat around before 1:00, nandun kami sa
tinatawag naming banana conference nasa ilalim po kami ng
kasagingan.

Papasok na pero may putukan at kami po nila William

Hovland dahil IMT sila pati iyong kasama nilang nasa daan contingent
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ng Brunei decided na iiwan namin iyong mga kasama namin doon sa


area at doon kami sa eskwelahan sa Mamasapano, malapit doon sa
location ng 45th ID sa Tuka at saka SAF to monitor dahil ayaw naming
matamaan din kami ng crossfire dahil mayroong firingwe sensed na
pwede kaming tamaan.

So at around past 1:00, mga 1:20, 1:15,

naka-receive ho ng tawag iyong kasamahan po namin na iniwan namin


doon sa area na naka-pull out na po iyong MILF from Tukanalipao.
Naka-pull out na po sila at pumasok na kayo, sabi ni Ustadz Wahid
Tundok, naka-pull out na, nagawa na niya iyong kanyang mission.
And then iyong mga kasama namin andun kami sa area, nag-usap ho
kami doon sa opisina ng mayor ng Mamasapano.

Nag-usap-usap ko

kami doon kung anong gagawin, how will we proceed to the area,
anong

nangyayari,

we

will

assess,

anong

kailangan

naming

pagtutulungan para makapasok kami doon sa engagement area. And


then nakapasok kami ng around 4:00 after nag-uusap-usap ho kami
doon sa kay mayor, mga barangay officials nina mayor, nakapasok
kami ng around 4:00 at iyong mga iba pumasok na doon sa
engagement area ng 55th SAF at saka MILF area. Kami naman nandun
kami sa community which is less than a kilometer from the
engagement ng SAF. And then after that bumalik sila sa amin ang mga
kasama namin, GPH-MILF na sabi nila, Kukunin natin iyong mgawe
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will retrieve the cadaver noong mga SAF pero wala kaming gamit dahil
hindi ma-access ng mga vehicle iyong trail.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Noong nasa area kayo,

noong nandun na kayo pati iyong counterpart ninyo, may putukan pa


rin after mga 1:00, 2:00, 3:00? Kasi ang nakuha naming report, 4:00
pa natigil ang putukan. Thats why we are trying to establish why they
continued fighting whereas na-inform na ang magkabila na umatras na
or rather to ceasefire at kaharap nila ang kaengkwentro nila on the
side of the MILF, eh government troops at the same time they are sa
government side eh MILF nag-aayos na nga tayo ng ceasefire. So
when you were in the area--nasa area kayo mga afternoon di ba, more
or less?
MR. LADIASAN.

Hanggang before 6:00 nandun pa po kami,

sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Pero nakarating kayo doon

mga 1:00, 2:00 ganun, is that correct?


MR. LADIASAN.

Opo, opo. Nasa saging conference po kami,

nandun sa malapit sakasi may nangyari we have to confer, may


nangyayari sa ground at may putukan na.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Nabanggit mo kanina

noong umaga nakakarinig pa kayo ng putukan. Noong hapon?


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MR. LADIASAN.

Even noong hapon mayroon pa ring putukan

na ang nagsabi sa amin was military po at saka police na mayroon


pang engagement doon sa kabila which I believe na 88th SAF nga iyong
engaged doon sa-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
MR. LADIASAN.

Eighty-four.

Sorry po, 84th SAF. Pero at around 2:00 ang

information namin ang MILF wala na ho doon sa Tukanalipao in the


engagement site with the 55th SAF. Ang hindi namin alam na mayroon
pa palang putukan doon sa kabila, nalaman na lang namin iyon noong
nag-verify kami sa-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Anong oras iyon iyong last

na naririnig ninyo na putukan hanggang anong oras iyon?


MR. LADIASAN.

Ang alam ko, sir, hanggang around before

5:00 may putukan pa din po doon sa area at in fact pakonti-konti na


lang ho.

In fact, ang recommendation nga ho ni Colonel sa 45th

papasok na sila-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Forty-fifth Infantry

Batallion?
MR. LADIASAN.

Opo ng AFP, na papasok na sila para ma-save

iyongmakatulong na rin mag-extricate-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Anong oras iyon?


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MR. LADIASAN.
ganyan.

Past 5:00 po.

Past 5:00 po, around mga 5:30 po ng hapon


So pinuntahan po namin si Colonel Bautista

po, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, na sabi namin, Okay, we agree na


puntahan ninyo na doon sa area at pagtulungan na lang ho natin at we
will coordinate sa ground ng movement ng 45th.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So hanggang ano na iyon

mga 4:00, 5:00, more or less tapering off na iyong--?


MR. LADIASAN.

Opo, opo. Its around past 5:00.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Okay.

So skirmishes na

lang siguro iyong natira.


MR. LADIASAN.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Major Sol, you were

together with Mr. Ladiasan during this time?


MR. SOL.

No, Your Honor. Because as mentioned by Brother

Rashidactually, we came from Camp Bushra in Butig. Then we


separated when we arrived in the area of Masio. We separated, the
MILF went back to Cotabato; me, General Galvez, my team including
the IDB members, Independent Decommissioning Body members
proceeded to Iligan supposed to be for another mission. However, as
mentioned in our report, we received the information at 6:38 in the
morning. We received it from our counterpart, Brother Rashid,
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informing us that there is a fighting between the 105th and the Army,
the AFP. So as an SOP upon receipt of such information immediately,
we looked at the array of forces in the vicinity of the engagement area.
So we called up 6th ID, first mechanized brigade; 601st brigade; the
45th ID. And before calling the Philippine National Police, the provincial
director, he called me that he said, Bok, are you aware of the
encounter in Mamasapano? So I told him that we just received the
information that there is an encounter and I asked him, Are there
troops from that PNP in the area because the army is saying that they
dont have troops engaged in the area?

So thats the time that he

said, They are SAF, they are the national unit/rjo

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MR. SOL. they are the national unit, we are not involved, he
said. So with that
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). When you say 6th ID, you
are talking to the commander, General Paner?
MR. SOL. G3, sir, to the operations officer.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Sa operations. Okay.
MR. SOL. Yes, sir.
So I recommended to General Galvez, I told him that, Sir, its
better for us to ask permission from the IDB that we go ahead to
Cotabato to attend to this problem. However, while we are preparing,
at 7:30, I called up Mr. William Hovland, the chief operations officer of
the International Monitoring Team and I requested from him if the IMT
could organize a team that would accompany the CCCH and AHJAG.
Because we told him that we are not around but I will muster the
available members of the CCCH that we have in Cotabato.
And that time, I called up our staff, Ronnie Arap and Dave
Jungko, my operations officerduring that time they were at the
Awang Grotto Church, hearing mass. So I told them, You make a sign
of the cross and go to our office, muster all our personnel, including
the driver, vehicles and everything, link up with the MILF-CCCH,
Brother Rashid is there, you proceed to the headquarters of the

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International Monitoring Team so that there will be a briefing to be


conducted before proceeding to the area.
So we were discussing with Brother Rashid on the possible
courses of action while we are not around. So I suggested to him that
if you can brief the group, especially on the nature of the conflict in the
area and the actors in the area, and probably, if you get some advice
from your general staff or from the leadership of the MILF on what
best things to do so that you will be able to do it immediately.
So I think mobilization of forces of teams took them up to 9
oclock. So from there, they motored immediately to the area. So I
asked them, Where are you going to go? We have to consult the
senior leaders of the Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces in the area.
So when they said senior leaders, it is to my opinion that these senior
leaders are the base commanders of the BIAF units in the area and
that is Wahid Tundok and also Zacaria Goma as an SOP ofevery time
there is an incident in that area, we always seek the help of the senior
leaders of the MILF.
So from there, they were giving me information that, Okay, we
will be negotiating for a ceasefire and once they agreed for a ceasefire
and help us on what to do to effect the ceasefire and the withdrawal of
forces, then we will do everything we can do.

So thats why after

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their short or brief meeting, they divided the groupone belongs to


Wahid Tundok. Remember, sir, Your Honor, that the members of the
ceasefire committee dont have firearms. They are soldiers, they are
civilians but they dont have firearms.
So they went there and they designated Wahid Tundok because
he is a respected leader in the area to contact the armed group
belonging allegedly from the 105th Base Command.

So because

formerly Wahid Tundok is the operations commander of the 105th


Base Command when Commander Ustadz Kato was stillhe is now the
118th Base Commander.

Yes, sir, but he was the operations

commander of 105th during the time of Kato.


So that 118th Base Command was given to him after he refused
to join the BIFF when he was recruited by Karyalan and Kato to join.
So I dont know what kind of reward was that but the 118th Base
Command was given to Wahid Tundok.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So you asked him to

contact the commander of 105th again to arrange the ceasefire.


MR. SOL.

Sir, for your information, Your Honor, after the IMT

briefing, they went to Kuloy at the house of Ustadz Zacaria Goma, the
commander of the 105th Base Command and they talked also with
Wahid Tundok there.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). What time was that?


MR. SOL. That was more or less 11:30 or 11:45.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Yeah, thats what I have

here. They were already formed into the JCC team.


MR. SOL.

Yes, sir. When they went out of the compounds of

the International Monitoring Team headquarters in Cotabato they are


already the crisis team composed of these mechanisms.
And also, I suggested to Brother Rashid, being the most senior in
that team, to contact also the head of the Joint Ceasefire Monitoring
Post stationed in Barangay Kitango of Datu Saudi Ampatuan to reenforce their team because the members of the Joint Ceasefire
Monitoring Post are BIAF members representing the 105th, the 118th
and also soldiers from the First Mechanized Infantry Brigade, that area
being within the AOR of the First Mechanized Brigade. So its a team
of soldiers also on the BIAF.
So they joined, they link up with the group of the Joint Ceasefire
Crisis team in Kuloy and together beefed up their group so that they
will be able to negotiate for a ceasefire at the ground level. So noong
nag-usap na sila doon kanila Wahid at saka si Ustadz Zacaria Goma, so
they agreed na talagang ihinto natin itong putukan. Because ang sabi
ko rin sa kanila, sir, na Dapat mahinto ito. Why? Because we also

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monitored some groups around Liguasan Marsh also mobilizing their


forces. So ayaw nating mag-escalate iyong problem. And since I am
the head of the secretariat from 2007 until now, ganoon iyong nature
of conflict doon sa lugar. As well explained by General Galvez, makita
mo iyong pintakasi, makita mo iyong ramification of conflict because of
so many armed groups in the area.
So ang amin doon is two things, Your Honor. One is to address
the fighting, na ma-ceasefire, ma-separate iyong forces at matingnan
din iyong kalagayan ng ating mga IDPs.

Kung kailangang ma-

accompany iyong IDPs to move out from their communities to their


designated

evacuation

areas,

the

ceasefire

committee

should

accompany them for purposes of protecting the civilians.


Second, we have to prevent other forces who do not understand
what is happening in Mamasapano to also open new fronts in the area.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And join the fight, in other
words.
MR. SOL.

Join the fight or open new fronts because ang

pagkakaalam nila, ang kalaban ng 105th is army, sundalo. Hindi nila


sinasabing pulis or what.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Baka atakehin nila iyong

AFP.

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MR. SOL. Oo. So baka mamaya atakehin nila iyong ibang AFP
forces. Ito iyong nangyayari sa ground.
So thats why I did not join their group because their team is
already complete. I have to stay in between their group, the position
of General Pangilinan and General Galvez with the tactical command
post and I am at the center monitoring the movement of the crisis
team

including

what

is

happening

around

the

vicinity

of

the

engagement areas.
So nakikita ko naman iyong galaw. Kaya na-mention kanina ni
Brother Rashid, after the meeting, they divided into two groupsiyong
isa armado, pumunta kay Wahid iyon, pupunta sana doon sa kabila.
However, when they were moving towards the link-up point doon sa
105th na involved, kasi gusto nilang pagsabihan iyong 105th, You
have to make a ceasefire and get out of the area, ang nangyari,
nakita na rin siya sa may Tuka, sa may crossing Tuka, which is also
the tactical command post of the 45th IB. Good that the crisis team,
the first group was already there. Kaya noong they were firing at the
team of Wahid Tundok, akala nila re-enforcement doon sa kabila, nagnegotiate iyong ceasefire na, Sir, si Wahid Tundok iyon.../jun

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MR. SOL. Sir, si Wahid Tundok iyon. We requested him to


help us. So, nag-ceasefire. The call for immediate ceasefire is in that
portion. Kung titingnan mo iyong road ng Tukanalipao, ito iyong road
from

Shariff

Aguak,

ito

engagement area is here.

iyong

papuntang

Tukanalipao.

The

This is the pavement, the road.

The

ceasefire na hinihingi ng Ceasefire Committee noon is nasa left side of


the road, two or three kilometers away from the actual engagement
area.

It has no bearing doon sa engagement because we are still

negotiating for a ceasefire.

So, noong nag-ceasefire ito, naka-

penetrate na iyong grupo ni Commander Wahid Tundok. And that, as


narrated also, noong naka-link up na doon, sinabihan na ng ano doon,
Okay, pwede nang pumasok iyong Ceasefire. However, in-assess rin
ng Ceasefire.

We cannot dictate iyong judgment ng Ceasefire

Committee namin sa ground because one single fire will mean injury or
death of our people. We had that experience in 2008. Thats why sabi
namin, Maingat kayo.

Always look at your protection.

Thats why

mayroong saging diplomacy. Why? Because noong mga bala doon sa


Tukanalipao incident, lumalabas sa highway doon sa position ng
Ceasefire, pumunta sila dito sa baba kasi ito---elevated ang highway.
Bumaba sila dito, may saging, doon sila nagtatago. Nagtatago at the
same time nag-uusap kung ano ang magandang istratehiya.

Noong
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nagkaputukan naman dito sa kabila, ang ginawa nila, nag-cross naman


sila ng highway dahil pababa, eh. Tago na naman sila dito dahil may
putukan.

Noong

nag-ceasefire,

bumalik

sila

rito.

Then,

the

intervention is continuing, continuing na with utmost consideration


iyong security ng bawat miyembro ng Ceasefire Committee. So, iyon
nakita

namin.

We

have

been

in

several

incidents

like

this.

Napakabigat pa nung iba. Kaya lang, ito, this is a very close fighting.
Talagang ubusan ng lahi itong mangyayari.

Its very difficult to

separate these forces because iyong Ceasefire na supposed to be


papasok sa gitna para makita ng both forces, contending forces, hindi
makapasok. Hindi makapasok because sila mismo exposed to harm.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, heavy pa ang exchange
ng fire?
MR. SOL. Heavy ang exchange ng fire. At saka, sir, hindi alam
kung saan ang mga firing. Ang daming firing. Ang daming firing.
So, second, which is very significant sa intervention namin, hindi
namin alam iyong disposition of forces ng SAF. In fact, ang alam lang
namin, iyong na-engage ng 55th. Nalaman namin at 5:20, sinabihan
ako ni General Galvez, Jun, mayroon pa doong hinahabol na SAF.
Sabi ko, Sir, patay naman iyong SAF na hinahabol.
Hindi. Mayroon pa.
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In fact, I reported to Colonel Armilla, who was the ARMM


director. Beside him during that time at the tactical command post of
the 1st Mechanized Brigade is General Napeas. Sabi ko, Sir, ilan ba
ang hinahanap ng Ceasefire na miyembro ng SAF.
Sabi niya, Bok, ilan ba iyong nakita ng mga bata mo?
Sir, 32 ang accounted na patay. Patay na iyon, sir.
Sabi niya, Ah, iyon na. Sabi niya, Iyon na.
Sir, iyon ba? So, accomplished na, sir, kami. Wala na kaming
hahanapin.
Then, suddenly, tumawag si General Galvez.

Sabi niya, Jun,

may hinahabol.
So, tinanong ko iyong ceasefire team doon kay Brother Rashid.
Sabi ko, Mayroon pa daw putok.
Wala na, Bro.

Wala nang putok.

Kaya lang, may putok sa

malayo.
So, tinanong namin, Ano daw iyon, sir?
So, 1.5 kilometers northeast of Tukanalipao, iyon ang sinasabi.
Doon daw nanggagaling ang putok.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Ah, iyon na iyong 84th.

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MR. SOL. Palagay ko, sir, iyon na ang 84th. So, sabi ko kina
Brother Rashid, Okay, you go back to Colonel Bautista.

You ask

Colonel Bautista on the correct information.


So, tinanong niya. Iyon, kinonfirm (confirm) na mayroon. So,
tinanong ko si Colonel Bautista. Sabi ko, Sir, ano ang gagawin natin,
non-Ceasefire Committee, to support the probable action of the
battalion at saka ng SAF?
Sabi niya, Any forces of the MILF na nandoon pa sa area,
paalisin lahat.
So, sabi nila Brother Rashid, Wala na, sir.

Wala na sa

Tukanalipao.
So, ang ginawa ng MILF is tinawagan ang base commander.
Sinabi ng i-clear lahat iyong Mamasapano, i-clear ng MILF because the
rescue operation will start.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). What time was that?
MR. SOL. Its alreadyI think the negotiation was 6 oclock in
the evening. Mga ganoon na, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

To recover cadavers, to

recover the other SAF members, presumably iyong 84th.


MR. SOL.

Hindi.

Nalaman, sir, namin 5:20 na mayroon pa.

Ang negotiation is 5:30 to 5:45.


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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Nalaman ninyo na mayroon


pang isang unit
MR. SOL. Isang unit, iyong 84th.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

So, 5:20 nyo lang

nalaman?
MR. SOL. Yes, sir, na mayroon.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). That had to correlate also
with what General Pangilinan was saying.

What time did youI

remember during your testimony, General, sinabi mo na nagulat ka na


mayroon pa palang isa pang unit dahil all your attention was focused
on the 55th.

So, what time?

Again, I have to tie down the time

because its important to see the sequence properly.


General Pangilinan, when did you learn that there was, in fact,
another unit besides the 55th, besides the 85th, but another unit
operating in the area?
MR. PANGILINAN.

I think the estimated time is around past

five in the afternoon.


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, ito. More or less, the
same time as you seem to have been informed of this at around the
same time.
MR. PANGILINAN. But I do not know
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Mr. Ladiasan, you were the


one who provided that information? Kasi sinabi mo na nagtatanong ka
doon kay Mr. Ladiasan.
MR. SOL. Hindi, sir. Iyong information, sir, I received it from
General Galvez.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Ah, from General Galvez.
MR. SOL. Sinabihan niya ako, Jun, mayroon pang
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). When did you receive that
information?
MR. GALVEZ. Sir, in my record, sir, 5:15.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

5:15.

Saan nanggaling,

sino nagsabi sa iyo na mayroon pang isang unit na hindi makita?


MR. GALVEZ. Sir, I heard General Napeas and theyre talking
about some people that were being pursued by some armed groups.
So, I called up immediately Major Sol to ask Rashid
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And you confirmed that to
Major Sol? Yeah, that is his
MR. GALVEZ. That its already BIFF.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Okay.

Very well.

Sige,

please continue. So, we are now at around 5:15 in the afternoon of 25


January, Sunday.
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MR. SOL. Yes, sir. Babalik lang ho, sir, dito sa 4 oclock.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay.
MR. SOL.

Four oclock, cleared na, pumasok na iyong tropa.

And my operations officers went with the group of the MILF Ceasefire.
They went inside the bridge. Then, when they were there, hinila siya
ng counterpart namin, si Mr. Butch Malang.

Sabi niya, Bakit ka

sumunod dito? Lets get out from this area. Hindi mo ba alam iyang
nasa harap puro BIFF na iyon? And they overheard na sinabi ng tao
doon na, Kristiyano iyan.

Kukunin na natin.

Kaya natakot iyong

MILF counterpart. Winidraw (withdraw) niya si Dave. Inalis niya doon


sa area, get out from the area. Then, when Dave called up 700 meters
away from the bridge, sabi niya, Sir, pina-withdraw ako dahil delikado
na pala ako.
Get out, sabi ko, Pull out from the area.

And let us

coordinate with the barangay officials.


Kasi ang mission, sir, from rescue, supposed to be, nag-shift na
into retrieval operations. Kaya nga nailagay na nila, as placed in our
report na nagpatulong na kami sa local government, munisipyo at saka
sa barangay, mobilize ng tao na kung puwedeng tumulong na sa pagretrieve ng mga cadavers.

I think our attempt iyong gabing iyan,

naka-recover ng five or six cadavers then pinaumaga na dahil very


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dark na iyong lugar, hindi na natin alam kung ano iyong mga
nangyayari doon.

And second, alam namin magkaroon ng rescue

operations iyong 45th IB. So, sabi namin, Okay, all members of the
team should get out of the area and we will just advise the barangay
chairman to direct his people to look into the areas na hindi rin mawala
iyong mga cadavers doon sa area.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, eventually, the bodies
of the dead SAF troopers were recovered most ng 5:30, something like
that, 6 oclock.
MR. SOL. Mga 9 oclock, sir, ng gabi.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Ah, 9 oclock na. Gabinggabi na talaga. . . . (nam)

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

Gabing-gabi na talaga.

And then eventually the retrieval team that went in the morning went
in already about first light siguro. Oo, first light. Okay.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, marami pa tayong pag-uusapan, as
you can imagine, but we have really overstayed our welcome here in
our hearing. We were meant to be finished at 12 but the issue again
of aliases took up most of our allotted time.
So we will have to end there. We will continue. We will have to
continue with this and I think we have sufficient information as to the
events especially concerning the AHJAG and the CCCH and the actions
that they undertook to institute the ceasefire. Now, I think the next
will be lessons learned and what can we do.
We have in this hearing clearly focused on the problem of the
coordination and the differing interpretations between what the police
and the SAF specifically were following and what was seen bywell, to
begin with, by the CCCH as the standard procedure.
So thank you for your participation and we will be scheduling
further hearings and we will inform you all when we have done so.
So with that, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. We
are suspended.
[THE HEARING WAS SUSPENDED AT 1:33 P.M.]/mpm
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