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IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE

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IN AND FOR KENT COUNTY
Note:

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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See Mortgage Movies Journal for the DE AG Advisory
CHRISTOPHER KING, J.D. d/b/a ) Opinion that banning cameras is “extremely risky as the
KINGCAST/MORTGAGE MOVIES,
) law is evolving in a more permissive direction.”
) Not with Cultural Hegemonist Robert B. Young as Judge….
Plaintiff,
) See also Pomykacz v. Village of West Wildwood
) See also Tisdale v. Gravitt
v.
) C.A. No. K15C-03-028 RBY
) So help me God I’ve already won this case by showing
BETTY LOU McKENNA, HOLLY
) what jerks they are, but I am in it to win it with a
MALONE and JOHN W. PARADEE, ) Decision and we will go to SCOTUS.
ESQUIRE,
) There are virtually no journos with my background
an escrow attorney, First Amendment Trial atty
) as
and daily news reporter who do what I do. This is why
Defendants.
) Judge Young is downplaying all of that and trying to
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * keep someone like me silenced. I will not stand for it.

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TRANSCRIPT
OF
CIVIL MOTIONS

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Thursday, June 11, 2015
Kent County Courthouse
Dover, Delaware 19901

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BEFORE:
THE HONORABLE ANDREA M. FREUD, Commissioner.

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* * * * *
APPEARANCES:

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CHRISTOPHER KING, Pro Se Plaintiff

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JOSEPH S. SHANNON, Esquire, appearing on behalf
of Defendants Betty Lou McKenna and Holly Malone

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PETER C. McGIVNEY, Esquire, appearing on behalf
of Defendant John W. Paradee, Esquire

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CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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June 11, 2015
Courtroom No. 5
2:00 p.m.

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* * * * *

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THE COURT:

Okay.

The remaining motions all

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have to do with the same case.

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versus McKenna, et al.

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the three motions that are on that it makes sense to

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address the motion for the stay of the proceedings

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first.

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MR. SHANNON:

THE COURT:

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MR. SHANNON:

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out of the courtroom.

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Your Honor, Scott Shannon on

Stay of discovery, I guess.

THE COURT:

Mr. King was here.

back.
MR. SHANNON:

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THE COURT:

I'm sorry?
I said we need to wait for him

to get back.

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We will find out where he is.

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MR. KING:

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THE COURT:

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He stepped

We need to wait for him to get

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I think after my review of

behalf --

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That would be King

Good afternoon, Your Honor.
Mr. King, I wasn't aware that

you weren't in the courtroom when I made my initial

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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remarks; so I will repeat them.

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I have reviewed the three motions that are

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pending in this matter, and it appears to me that it

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would make the most sense to start with the motion --

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I guess it would be the joint protective order.

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it also a motion to stay the discovery?

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First of all, why not start with my Motion to
primarily what that is? Compel, as it narrows the issue? Stay tuned…

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MR. SHANNON:
ultimately seeking.

Is

Is that

That is the relief that we are
It's two parts which would go

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hand-in-hand.

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discovery sought not be had, and as part of that,

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that this litigation be stayed pending Judge Young's

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consideration and disposition of the pending

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dispositive motions.

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The one being an order that the

THE COURT:

Well, my review of everything

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leads me to conclude that we should address that

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motion first.

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MR. KING:

If I may, Your Honor, as a

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preliminary matter of housekeeping, I had filed a

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notice of media coverage, and in that notice, I cited

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to the second revision of Administrative Directive

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No. 155.

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recently on the 29th day of November, 2005.

That was updated several times and most

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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THE COURT:

Mr. King, also as a preliminary

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matter, I understand that you filed a notice of that,

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but unfortunately, there is no motion that was

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attached to it.

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that was an issue until I was walking out the door to

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go to lunch today.

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been brought to my attention.

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9

So I was completely unaware that

So it's not something that has

I can tell you that I have been doing this
for over 20 years, and to my knowledge, the Court has

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never once, at any point in time, allowed any

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recording of any procedure in the court.

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that by the directives of the court for the Superior

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Court policies that there are no video recording
That is not true.
equipment allowed in the courtroom.
Google Rule 155

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15

I also know

So at this point in time, I'm not going to

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allow any recordings because, based upon my

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experience, that is not allowed.

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I had to look it up, I do know that the Superior

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Court rules forbid videotaping, television

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broadcasting in criminal matters.

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the practice in our court to not allow it in civil

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matters as well.

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In the limited time

Also, it's been

So at this point since I have not had any

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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time to do any further research on that, based upon

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that, I'm going to deny that request.

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MR. KING:

If I may just briefly to note my

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objection for the record, Your Honor.

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the request of the Bar" --

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THE COURT REPORTER:

It states, "At

I'm sorry.

Could you

slow down?
MR. KING:

It states, "At the request of the

Bar Bench Media Conference, the Supreme Court

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extended the experimental period to permit the

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electronic news media to cover cases that might arise

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in an extended experimental period."

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THE COURT:

She cuts me off…..

Mr. King, my understanding of

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that rule -- and as I said, I have not done extensive

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research on it -- but my understanding of that rule

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is that applied only to Supreme Court oral arguments,

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which is the only thing in the State where they're

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currently allowed to have video recordings of it.

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They do post that.

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never been told otherwise by anyone -- there is no

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recording in Superior Court or in any other court.

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MR. KING:

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may beg to differ.

As far as I know -- and I have

Point of fact, Your Honor, if I
I read the first version of 155,

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Boom!
Before
I
can
even read it
and it specifically referenced -into the Record….
THE COURT: Mr. King, I've made my ruling.

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MR. KING:

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Please note my

objection for the record, Your Honor.
It fucking clearly says
THE COURT: Thank you.
“Trial Courts.”

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I understand.

MR. KING:
Court.

I will certify with the Supreme

In a few weeks I am
suing for Declaratory
Judgment on this.
THE COURT: Thank you.
What jerks.
You may proceed with your motion.

MR. SHANNON:

May it please the Court, on

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behalf of defendants, Beverly McKenna and Holly

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Malone, my name is Scott Shannon.

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In the presentation of defendants joint

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motion for protective order -- although, I would ask

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Mr. McGivney, who is here representing defendant,

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John Paradee, an opportunity to speak to the extent

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that he may wish to emphasize certain points on

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behalf of his client that I may not touch on

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adequately on behalf of Ms. McKenna or Ms. Malone.

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In putting together the outline for my

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argument today, Your Honor -- and I appreciate you

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giving us the opportunity to go first.

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argument actually addresses both the motion for

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

But my

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protective order and motions to compel, if Your Honor

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will entertain the argument that way, since to a

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certain extent they are hand and glove.

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after all, Mr. King's advising us of his intention to

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file the motions to compel that prompted us to file

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the motion for protective order, if that's fair

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enough.

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THE COURT:

It was,

Well, if -- depending upon how

we rule on a stay of discovery, if a stay of

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discovery is granted, then I don't believe we need to

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address anything else, and we can leave that to

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another time until after any ruling on Judge Young's

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order would come into place.

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going to depend on how I rule on that, but depending

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on how that goes, I don't think there is a need to

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get to the merits of the other arguments today.

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MR. SHANNON:

I have not -- it's

I will try to separate the

sugar from the salt then, as I present.

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THE COURT:

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MR. SHANNON:

Do as best you can.
Without repeating the

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arguments that are made in our motion itself, which

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points out that we have meritorious early dispositive

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motions that are pending, that are based upon well

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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established Supreme Court case law and Third Circuit

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case law that defines the scope of the First

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Amendment privilege that Mr. King seeks to enforce,

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that those cases, in fact, are not even disputed or

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challenged by the plaintiff because they cannot be.

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The scope of the First Amendment Right that

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he seeks to enforce does not include all demand

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access by any citizen to the bureaucratic functions

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of government.

The requirement is that the

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information be made public to the extent that it is

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the function of government -- in this case Recorder

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of Deeds -- that those deeds, which are on record,

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the public have access to them.

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I wasn’t only coming to access records…. I was
coming to ask a question of a senior staffer and
there is a narrowly-tailored requirement here
before they can shut my cameras down.

Mr. King appeared at the Kent County

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Administrative Complex.

He asked for access to the

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nonpublic office space for the purpose of filming.

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That was denied.

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space and to the public database through the computer

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terminals that are made available for that purpose at

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the Kent County offices.

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also not disputed that Mr. King, in fact, retrieved

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documents from that database and that he has

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published those on his website.

He was given access to the public

That's not disputed.

It's

Those are included

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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in the motion.

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So for the purposes of determining the

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extent and scope of the right Mr. King seeks to

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enforce, that issue is squarely in front of the judge

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on dispositive motions.

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my answer and opposition to Mr. King's cross-motion

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for partial summary judgment is due tomorrow.

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The final briefing of which

Now in the meantime, Mr. King is persistent
in pursuing discovery.

We have responded to three

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complete rounds of discovery for Mr. King.

The first

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set of interrogatories, request for documents,

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request for admissions, a revised first set and a

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second set. Commissioner Freud allowed them to get away without answering the simple question of what their

You are goddamn right I am “persistent” in obtaining Discovery because Judge Robert B. Young and

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authority was to stop me, and what the goddamn policy is. This will haunt them on Appeal.

If I may for Mr. Paradee, Mr. Paradee has

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responded fully to the revised first set and to the

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second set.

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In addition, there were affidavits from each

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of the named defendants that were attached to the

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dispositive motions that addressed the specific

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claims going to the First Amendment Right, First

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Amendment Right that Mr. King seeks to enforce.

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When there are meritorious case dispositive
motions that are pending, as a matter of judicial

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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economy, in order to avoid the parties incurring

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unnecessary expense and to discovery matters that

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would be rendered moot, depending upon the outcome of

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the decision, it is appropriate -- and the Court may

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in its discretion order -- that the litigation be

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stayed, that no further discovery be had in order to

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save those costs.

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find ourselves, Your Honor, procedurally.

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That's the situation in which we

Substantively -- and this goes to the

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discovery that is sought for which a protective order

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is sought, and this may be where there is some

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overlap with the motions to compel.

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nature of the discovery that is sought.

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It goes to the

Mr. King in his answer and opposition to our

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motion for protective order describes himself as

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being a member of the fourth estate, the media.

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Accepting that is true, the media have no greater

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rights under the First Amendment than a public

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citizen, than anybody.

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is made between the rights available to a member of

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the media and a member of the general public.

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would be the role of the fourth estate to seek out,

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collect, and disseminate information.

There is no distinction that

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

But it

The role of

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the Court is to define the scope of the right.

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Mr. King seeks to confound the two, and the

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proof of that is in the discovery that he seeks.

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an example, he asks why Ms. McKenna did not return a

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phone call he placed to her home phone.

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response to that interrogatory would, in any manner,

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define the scope of the First Amendment Right is not

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explained.

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As

How -- how a

She’s never at work.
I am allowed to call her ass at home to inquire about public matters.
This is simple shit, folks.

He asks who pays Mr. Paradee's fees.

That's

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been addressed in the dispositive motions that he is

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not paid by public funds.

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funds.

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He is not paid by public

He is not subject to the First Amendment.
Mr. King seeks the case captions for civil

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actions against any defendant since 1994.

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again, the issue here is the First Amendment Right he

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seeks to assert.

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that Mr. King as media, as fourth estate, would be

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seeking to obtain assuming the right existed.

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Well,

It's not to get to the information

And this, Your Honor, is where we believe

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that the protective order is necessary.

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again, the question before the Court is not what

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allegations or what Ms. McKenna might have said about

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the conduct of a campaign, election campaign.

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Because,

The

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issue before the Court -- and the only issue on which

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Mr. King appears in his complaint -- is his assertion

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of a First Amendment Right of on-demand
access to the
Text

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bureaucratic function of government.

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The Third Circuit Court of Appeals, United

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States Supreme Court have repeatedly said that the

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First Amendment does not compel government to provide

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any information.

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Freedom of Information Act.

That the First Amendment is not a
That there are only two

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circumstances in which the First Amendment compels

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access, criminal trials and legislative functions.

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Imagine the chaos if any citizen at any time

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could walk into any public office, executive

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function, because where would it end, the governor,

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the president, and say, "I'm a taxpayer.

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public building.

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I'm going to film you doing your work."

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the scope of the right that is asserted.

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litigation is to be kept within that scope, that's

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This is a

I want to know what you're doing.

the discovery that should be permitted.

Now that's
If the
You cannot delimit First
Amendment Rights by
a parade of horribles.
This is bullshit.

The Court should not be subverted for the
Google Pomykacz v. Village of W. Wildwood, BOOM

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purposes of the fourth estate of which Mr. King
Google Tisdale v. Gravitt, 2014, Boom!

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claims to be a member of to allow him to get to the

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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information he was seeking in the exercise of his

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First Amendment Right.

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the outcome of the case dispositive motions is that

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the Court determines as a matter of law that, in

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fact, the scope of the First Amendment Right Mr. King

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seeks to assert is not as expansive as he interprets

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it.

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9

Particularly, when and if,

So for these reasons, Your Honor, because
there is a meritorious case dispositive motion

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pending, because the information sought is in no

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manner germane to the information -- excuse me -- the

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claim that has been made, we ask that the protective

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order be entered, the request of the discovery not be

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had, and litigation be stayed pending case

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dispositive motions.

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Thank you.

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Do you have anything to add?

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MR. McGIVNEY:

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Peter McGivney on behalf of defendant, John

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21

Just briefly, Your Honor.

Paradee.
Just to piggyback sort of off of what

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Mr. Shannon was just saying, we believe that we

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presented a meritorious defense in our motion to

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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dismiss motion for judgment on the pleadings.

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our position that John Paradee is not a state actor

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and, therefore, is a private citizen.

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deprive anyone, let alone the plaintiff, of any

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constitutional rights.

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It's

He could not

The plaintiff's complaint can be broken down

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into three claims.

The plaintiff wanted access to

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the Recorder of Deeds, ability to operate cameras

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there, and to compel answers directed at public

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officials.

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it will not determine whether or not he's suffered a

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harm, which he claims in the complaint.

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position that this motion for protective order motion

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for stay is proper under Rule 26(c).

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in litigation, it would be placing an undue burden

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and significant expense and costs on the defendants

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to engage in this type of discovery, especially given

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the fact that all the plaintiff's claims are subject

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to a motion to dismiss.

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The discovery that he has filed to date

It's our

At this point

Finally, Your Honor, it's our position that

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granting the motion for protective order motion to

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stay, the plaintiff will not suffer any prejudice if
I did suffer prejudice because we don’t even know what the policy is.

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this motion is granted.

If our motions to dismiss

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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are denied, then the case can move forward with

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discovery.

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over.

If they are granted, then the case is

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That's all I have.

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THE COURT:

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MR. KING:

Thank you, Your Honor.

Mr. King.
May it please the Court.

I would

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like to first address several blatant misstatements

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that were made by counsel.

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Now, obviously, there is a little bit of

10

sugar with the salt here because we have to go into

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the merits first off before we can address.

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cited the merits in their filings; so I am going to

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address the merits as well in this instance.

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didn't cite to any cases just now.

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cited to were the Woods case and the Cinelli case.

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The Cinelli case --

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THE COURT REPORTER:

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MR. KING:

Okay.

I'm sorry.

They

They

What they

What case?

Cinelli, C-I-N-E-L-L-I.

The case

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that they cited to in Pennsylvania -- and they like

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to go to Pennsylvania for their law.

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we're there, let's stop and remember that Nancy

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Becker just successfully sued MERS in Pennsylvania

Well, while

Faulty documents are obviously a matter of substantial public concern.

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over faulty and fraudulent documents in her registry.

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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That problem exists in all 50 states.

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I shoot video across the country about these

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matters in courtrooms across the country on a routine

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basis.

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attorney.

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7

I was a title insurance producer, escrow
I have worked in major media for years.

now run my own operation.

There is a distinction between media and the

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general public in many instances, particularly in

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this case, where there is a Delaware Free Press

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statute which did not roll off the lips of either of

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my brothers just now.

12

First Amendment claim that we are reviewing before

13

the Court, and that's a crucial distinction.

14

I

Judge Robert B. Young issued his opinion without citing to any of
my professional background or even the name of my goddamn
website, i.e. “Mortgage Movies.”

That is a claim as well as the

My brothers have attempted to say that I

15

want some type of any-time access to these people.

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That's not what is being sought.

17

sought at bottom, Your Honor, we can walk up and down

18

the ladder and scratch it all we want to, but the

19

bottom line is all I was seeking is:

What was being

May a reporter

This right here is simple: Obviously a reporter or a citizen has a right to ask a question with a pen and a pad;
therefore s/he has a right to do so with an unobtrsucive camera as well.

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ask a high ranking public official a couple of

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questions about her campaign and about false

22

statements she may have made in her campaign, as well

23

as a question or two about fraudulent documents that

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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2

may exist in her office.
Now, I'm not allowed to sit there all day,

3

but do I get a first blush?

Do I get an opportunity

4

to ask that question?

5

furthermore -- and I have two witnesses in this

6

courtroom today.

7

with me on the day in question.

8

to any private area.

9

whole time.

Of course, I do.

And

One of whom is La Mar Gunn who was
I didn't seek access

I was in the public foyer the

Judge Young tried to imply that I was trying to film in back areas
and private offices.

10

And the reason I called Betty Lou McKenna at

11

her home is because I know she's never at the office.

12

But when I called her at her home, I called her about

13

a matter which is clearly a matter of public concern

14

whether or not she made false statements, campaign

15

statements, about that man, La Mar Gunn.

16

Now, the defendants would like to drive a

17

wedge between -- let's put it another way.

The

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defendants are trying to obfuscate the issue by

19

stating that, you know, they've stated in their

20

pleadings I'm trying to advance a claim on behalf of

21

La Mar Gunn or something like that.

22

what is happening here.

23

determine why they did what they did.

None of that is

I am seeking discovery to

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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The cases they cited to -- let's delve into

2

that because it's crucial to your understanding of

3

this case -- the Woods case.

4

who was there on behalf of a developer.

5

to run video.

6

hearing or something like that -- specifically passed

7

a resolution stating no cameras, okay, for one

8

meeting.

9

policy.

There was a gentleman
He was going

The governing body -- it was a zoning

He was denied at that meeting.
Okay.

There was a

The policy was repealed and found

10

unconstitutional because the public has a right to

11

video these meetings.

12

Okay.

Even in Woods they abolished the policy
banning cameras so he had a statutory right.
My Amended Complaint goes there.

But in that case, they cited to Cinelli in

13

Rhode Island, where I used to live.

14

school teacher was running video in the building

15

about issues of public concern.

16

checked the mortgage crises is an issue of public

17

concern.

18
19
20

In Cinelli, a

The last time I

I think all of us in this room know that.

So how is it --

Judge Young said that case pivoted on whether she was a public employee, which is
bullshit because the case held that she — much as any reporter — would have to
follow the same procedures as the general public for access during her nonworking hours. That is the key to this case.

And, Your Honor, we've come along way since
we studied communications in the '80s.

The new

Her Honor and I both have Communication Degrees. The difference is, she uses hers to oppress.

21

paradigm is reasonable access.

And that's where all

22

these cases wind up, reasonable access.

23

was seeking.

That's all I

I didn't want to go into the turns and

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

19

1

details of the office; just to ask a couple of

2

questions.

3

very clearly that I was going to ask a couple of

4

questions about false statements that were made about

5

Mr. Gunn, and that's why I called on the phone to

6

give them a courtesy to ask in the first place and

7

then I was going to video Mr. Gunn at a machine

8

pulling up a fraudulent document.

9

And then -- and I stated in my affidavit

This is how I wanted to project my
news story and unless I am disturbing
the functions of the office they
simply cannot stop me, period.

This is video footage that is done

10

everywhere across the country on a routine basis.

11

was denied that opportunity.

12

denied any opportunity whatsoever, and that is, as

13

you know, Your Honor, you studied communications.

14

It's overbroad.

15

any compelling governmental interest.

16

Point blank.

I

I was

It's not nearly tailored to reach

In Holly Malone's affidavit, she said that

17

her interest was to try to maintain the order of the

18

office.

19

the order of the office, so does every journalist.

20

We are there to ask a couple of questions and move on

21

our way, but I wasn't allowed to do that.

22

it was overbroad and not nearly tailored to reach any

23

compelling governmental interest.

I have better things to do than to disrupt

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

They said

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Boom!!!

They can't tell me how I'm supposed to run

2

my media.

3

picture of a document pulled up from the machine, I

4

can do that.

5

that document up himself for greater visual impact.

6

I'm well within my right to do that.

7
8
9

If I want to show a picture of a static

But I can also show Mr. Gunn pulling

This is simple.

Furthermore, Your Honor, let's get into the
specifics of what I asked for that they ignored.
They have since
dropped the Ayotte
argument, LOL…..

Before I do that, I want to bring up the

10

Kelly Ayotte case they've cited to in a public

11

private distinction as to what I would like to do.

12

If you look, there are actual pictures and videos in

13

the pleadings, Your Honor, relative to the Kelly

14

Ayotte matter in which the Court ruled that was a

15

private event where I was trying to run video.

16

I had interviewed Joe Arpaio and Kelly Ayotte

17

declined.

18

was at a hotel, okay.

19

way, at that time, Your Honor, Kelly Ayotte was not

20

an elected official.

21

attorney general and a U.S. Senator, okay.

22
23

They said that was a private event.

Okay.

It

Since that time -- and by the

She was in between being a

In this instance, the defendants are both
publicly employed individuals 24/7, okay.

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

And since

21

1

the time that Ms. Ayotte has become elected, every

2

single time I go to her office -- and this is in the

3

pleadings -- they answer my question.

4

school grounds -- I have proof in the file that I

5

have gone to her office in Washington, D.C.

6

gone to her office in New Hampshire.

7

walk in and ask a question.

8

all day and disrupt the office, of course, you can

9

throw me out.

10

Be it on

I have

I'm allowed to

Now if I remain there

That's common sense, too.

It’s all about common
sense folks.

That's why all my pleadings are entitled in

11

honor of Thomas Paine.

12

of society do we want to live in -- and I want to

13

finish the quote that the counsel pulled up about

14

unlimited access.

15

quote, it goes on to say that when the government is

16

hiding something in secrecy that makes things much

17

more suspect.

18

out about what they said about La Mar Gunn is because

19

that informs why they denied me access.

20

It's common sense.

What kind

You know, if you finish that

And the reason why I'm wanting to find

It's simple.

Now, what did I ask for that they didn't

21

mention just now.

I asked them -- and I quote --

22

because knowing what the policy is is important,

23

right?

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

22

1

"State what authority that any defendant has

2

had, at any point in time up to the 27th of November,

3

that indicates that video was verboten in the 555 Bay

4

Road building on or about November 25th, the only

5

day, date, and time that plaintiff was there."

6

You know what their response to that was?

7

"Objection.

8

and incapable of response."

9

This interrogatory is incomprehensible

I just asked what the policy is.

10

I'm entitled to know that.

11

so.

12

Obfuscatory bullshit response.
The Court let them get away with it.

But you know what?

I think

All the other cases said

We don't have a policy here.

What we have is an ad hoc policy

13

administered by Ms. Malone who, during all of this,

14

made two phone calls.

15

I believe I am entitled to a deposition to find out

16

about that.

17

To whom were those calls made?

And I have also put in the record, Your

18

Honor, just the other day when I responded in

19

replying to defendant Paradee's motion regarding the

20

compel, their memorandum and opposition to motion to

21

compel, I noted cases all throughout the country that

22

courts are reluctant to grant protective orders to

23

public defendants, you know, including Mayor

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

23

1

Giuliani, okay, because they're less argument.

2

There's a little bit of embarrassment.

3

hold weight.

4

That doesn't

As to whether or not they have dispositive

5

motions filed, I dismissed the emotional distress

6

claims.

7

mine are stronger based on their own case law when it

8

comes out.

9

ability of a journalist or a citizen to run video and

I have dispositive motions filed too, and

There is only one case that restricts the

10

that was at a prison.

11

are in a public building.

12

public path in that building.

13

We are not at a prison.

We

I didn't walk off the
I am not disruptive.

So the other questions were -- I ask why

14

defendant McKenna did not respond to my phone calls.

15

That's important because what's going on the

16

allegation that they're engaged in content based

17

discrimination, viewpoint based discrimination.

18

The First Amendment lies in the nuances,

19

Your Honor.

20

cases.

21

only one I lost.

22

know it well.

23

That's why I almost never lose these

As a matter of fact, the Ayotte case is the
The First Amendment is my life.

I

This is my ground.

And so I am entitled to know why they didn't

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

24

1

return the call because it might inform as to whether

2

or not they have a viewpoint based discrimination

3

against me; as opposed to say had my cousin, Mike

4

Wilbon, he's a big columnist for ESPN.

5

Okay.

This is viewpoint and
content-based
discrimination

If Mike walks in there and he says,

6

"Hey, I want to do a story about this gentleman here.

7

He is a famous basketball player and he used to work

8

here.

9

machine?"

Can I roll some footage of him next to a
Do we honestly think that the defendants

10

are going to say no?

11

Because it's a puff piece.

12

distinctions based on what you like and what you

13

don't like when you are a public official.

14

that up by being a public official.

15

But you can't make

You give

So I am not here to keep them at their

16

office all day.

17

questions.

18

Of course, they're not.

I just want to ask a couple of

Again: Just trying to ask a couple of goddamn questions here.

Now, the only couple of issues specifically

19

that I asked for, that I didn't get, include the case

20

captions for civil cases.

21

litigation question, Your Honor.

22

the point of the court or the defense to truncate my

23

discovery at this point.

Okay.

That's a common
You know, it's not

If I look back into those

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

25

1

cases and I find patterns that the defendants are

2

engaged in, then that might be helpful.

3

for later.

4

to truncate my entire discovery path.

That's subject to motion in limine, not

5

THE COURT:

6

MR. KING:

7

THE COURT:

8

But that's

Mr. King.
Yes.
I, too, like common sense, and

I, too, like to go to the simple.

9

MR. KING:

10

THE COURT:

Yes.
Particularly this, because my

11

job is to handle routine nondispositive civil

12

motions, not the merits of a case.

13

started out with this motion for protective order.

14

So that's why I

When I was looking at this, it seemed to me

15

that the simple thing is should we -- based upon

16

these motions to dismiss that are filed that seem to

17

have -- been claimed to have merit and the fact that

18

this case does seem to be -- there is a lot of

19

different issues in it that properly should be

20

decided on the motions that are pending before Judge

21

Young.

22

at this point of discovery, pending the outcome of

23

Judge Young's ruling, at which time if he denies

What is the harm to you for granting the stay

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

26

1

their motion or grants yours, then we can go forward

2

with discovery at that point in time?

3

MR. KING:

Your Honor, the cases they cited

4

to, the Woods case and the Cinelli case that screams

5

from that all turn on policy.

Okay.

6

they answered that question --

Policy policy policy…..
But I’m not entitled to know…..

7

And so the way

Do I need to read it back, Your Honor?

I

8

asked them, "What authority they have to deny my

9

access."

They couldn't answer it.

10

to know.

If they want to bring up cases that address

11

policy, then you live by the sword and you die by the

12

sword.

13

simple.

14

their policy is.

15

deposition and ask them why did you stop me from

16

doing that.

17

That is crucial

But you can't have it both ways.
That's common sense.

That's

I need to know what

I need to be able to sit down at

THE COURT:

Maybe I'm not making myself as

18

clear as I hoped too.

My question is:

19

if I grant a stay in the discovery until Judge Young

20

has ruled on his pending motions and don't address

21

the merits of your motion to compel or their specific

22

motions for a protective order today, just stay the

23

discovery so that there is no more discovery until

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

At this point

27

1

after Judge Young has made his ruling, what is the

2

harm?

3

MR. KING:

The harm is that I don't know

4

what the policy is, Your Honor.

5

cases that reference policy.

6

argument because I don't know what their policy is.

I can't strengthen my

7

Your Honor, if I may --

8

THE COURT:

9
10

They want to cite to

Is the briefing getting ready to

be complete?
MR. KING:

Yes, it is.

So -- but before

11

it's complete and over my objection, you know, I

12

filed myself a motion to strike their filing because

13

I'm not done with discovery.

14

you prove a First Amendment case, Your Honor, is to

15

show a policy and a deviation from the policy.

16

this instance, I don't have that.

17

massively handicapped.

18

That's a simple question.

19

had for doing what you did, and they turn around and

20

say they can't answer that.

21

THE COURT:

22

Any response?

23

MR. SHANNON:

One of the ways that

In

I have been

I'm entitled to have that.
State what authority you

That's ludicrous.

Thank you.

If I may, Your Honor.

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

28

1

Again I ask the Court's indulgence to give

2

Mr. McGivney the opportunity to respond on behalf of

3

his client to the extent I do not adequately address

4

or respond to the arguments made by Mr. King.

5

The policy argument is a red herring.

6

Either the First Amendment mandates the access

7

Mr. King seeks or it does not.

8

of a policy, nor even the terms of that policy, will

9

not create a First Amendment Right where none exists

The existence or not

10

and will not enlarge one assuming that one exists.

11

The policy is something entirely different.

12

threshold question here is whether or not that right

13

exists in the first place.

14

The

If I may, to address the two cases

15

referenced by Mr. King.

The Whiteland Woods versus

16

the Township of West Whiteland was heard by the Third

17

Circuit Court of Appeals.

18

policy of the Township Planning Commission that

19

prohibited video.

20

the Planning Commission was repealed was because the

21

policy conflicted with Pennsylvania's statutory

22

sunshine laws that mandated municipalities conduct

23

open meetings and allow access.

Mr. King refers to the

Well, the reason that policy of

It was an issue of

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

29

1

state statute.

2

Incidentally in 1991, while this case was

3

pending, that state statute was repealed and has not

4

been replaced.

5

Circuit Court of Appeals, the Third Circuit looked at

6

it and said, "This was a violation of state statutory

7

law, but it did not rise to the level of a

8

constitutional violation, because a state statute

9

does not confer a federal constitutional right."

When the matter went up to the Third

So

10

if a state statute does not confer a federal

11

constitutional right, it's kind of difficult to

12

conceive of how a policy of the Kent County Delaware

13

government could confer constitutional right, but

14

that's the argument Mr. King is

15

Well Federal Courts in NJ and GA
disagree. Pomykacz and Tisdale, supra.
making.And my Amended Complaint adds
Common Law and Statutory….

The second case to which he cited is

16

Cirelli.

It's not Cinelli.

It's Cirelli,

17

C-I-R-E-L-L-I.

18

Mr. King in the motions on the discovery motions

19

here, but he does bring it up in his -- at the

20

dispositive level, but I will just touch on it

21

briefly, if I may.

It's actually not referred to by

22

Cirelli was cited to in Whiteland Woods.

23

that case a -- it was either a school employee or

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

In

30

1

teacher, I believe it was, was -- believed that the

2

conditions of the school was such that the health of

3

the children was being affected, and she showed up

4

with a video camera to videotape conditions in the

5

school during the school day.

6

administrators told her that she could not do that.

7

The school

So she brought the suit asserting First

8

Amendment Right.

And the Court said -- in denying

9

her claim, the Court said that there is an interest

10

in the government in preventing the disruption of

11

government functions, and they are not required --

12

I'm paraphrasing now -- to give on-demand access.

13

That's as far as Cirelli went.

14

Bullshit. Read the case. She won on First
Amendment grounds.

How Mr. King is reading it for just the

15

opposite proposition that the result of Cirelli was

16

that this teacher could walk into the school any time

17

she wanted to and film, it's not there in the case,

18

Your Honor.

It's simply not there in the case.

No, but she was allowed to film at any time the public was entitled to be there, dammit.

19

That Mr. King has repeatedly asserted that

20

he is entitled to ask these questions of Ms. McKenna,

21

of Ms. Malone, that he is entitled to sit them down

22

and take their deposition, that he's entitled to find

23

out why Ms. McKenna did not call him back, he claims

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

31

1

to have that entitlement under the First Amendment of

2

the Constitution.

3

not for Mr. King to get that information.

4

purpose of this litigation is to determine whether or

5

not, as a matter of law, the First Amendment entitles

6

him to get that information.

7

distinction.

8
9
10

It's a clear

I am still entitled to ask her why she didn’t answer my question and whether she had any support for
her false campaign allegations against La Mar Gunn.
She does not have to answer that either but I am entitled to ask her, at her office,
with a pend and a pad and/or a camera. So simple.

the motion for protective order be granted, that
discovery not be had, and litigation be stayed.
I don't know if Mr. McGivney has anything to
add.

13

Thank you, Your Honor.

14

MR. McGIVNEY:

15

The

For that reason, Your Honor, we do ask that

11
12

The purpose of this litigation is

Your Honor, again, I will try

to be brief.

16

It's our position that the matter before the

17

Court here today is the discovery issues with the

18

case.

19

the Press issues those are under consideration by

20

Judge Young.

21

tomorrow with Mr. Shannon filing his answering brief

22

and responding to the plaintiff's motion for partial

23

summary judgment.

The First Amendment and Delaware Freedom of

The briefing for those issues closes

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

32

1
2

THE COURT:

I have a question.

Has the

briefing been completed on the motion to dismiss?

3

MR. McGIVNEY:

It has, Your Honor.

4

What we have so far in this case, Your

5

Honor, as far as discovery goes and the need to stay

6

the case and to enter a protective order, the

7

plaintiff initiated this litigation by filing six

8

discovery requests to my client and to Mr. Shannon's

9

clients.

Between the dates of May 19th and May 20th,

10

the plaintiff filed eight separate applications for

11

relief with the Court.

12

On May 21st, Judge Young entered an order

13

stating that he would not consider any more of the

14

plaintiff's Thomas Paine motions to uphold our

15

dispositive motions in abeyance.

16

Since that date, the plaintiff has filed ten

17

more applications for relief.

18

The lack of restraint with the filings and the

19

discovery requests and the motion practice, it makes

20

it very clear why this protective order and the

21

motion to stay should be granted.

22
23

That's as of June 4th.

Again, I bring the Court's attention to the
fact that the plaintiff will not be prejudiced if the

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

33

1

case is stayed.

If the motions to dismiss are

2

denied, then the case can move forward.

3

now, the Court needs to maintain control of the

4

docket while the motions to dismiss are being

5

considered.

6

That's all I have.

7

THE COURT:

8

MR. KING:

9

THE COURT:

10

MR. KING:

As of right

Thank you, Your Honor.

Mr. King.
I'll be brief, Your Honor.
Thank you.
In the first instance with

11

respect to defendant Paradee, we all know that

12

private persons can be found in conspiracy to violate

13

civil rights laws.

14

time.

Okay.

That's 1985.

It happens all the

But Judge Young said just the opposite but we all know he is wrong.

15

But let's get back to the issues of the two

16

cases again, because they want to stay in the merits

17

when they want to stay in the merits and get off when

18

they want to.

19

are very important.

20

But it's very important.

The merits

The Woods case, okay, it didn't rise to a

21

level of constitutional depravation because there was

22

a policy, even if it was for that one meeting.

If

23

you read the Woods case carefully, that's why.

All

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

34

1
2

right.
Furthermore, Woods was not a reporter.

3

There was no allegation that he was a reporter

4

exercising the First Amendment Right of a reporter to

5

gather and to disseminate news.

6

distinction of crucial importance.

7

for the developer.

8

dealing with the Sunshine Act.

9

That is a
He was working

He was just a guy there at the -Okay.

Now -- and again speaking of statutory to

10

statutory, remember they still have never addressed

11

the Delaware Free Press issue.

12

talk about that.

13

Legislature didn't just create that out of thin air.

14

It's there.

They don't want to

But it's there for a reason.

The

And they have no response to that.

Same as the First Amendment. But as I say the Amended Complaint adds Common Law and Statutory Claims.

15

Now, Cinelli or Cirelli, that case, Your

16

Honor, I know if you read the pleadings I am not

17

arguing unfettered access.

18

argue for it either.

19

it's reasonable.

20

And Cirelli does not

The gravamen is whether or not

Okay.

And by all intents and purposes, by

21

everything we have in the record, my request was

22

reasonable.

23

know, when can a reporter ask a public official a

I wasn't unruly.

I walked in.

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

You

35

1

question at her office in the middle of the day?

2

I don't have that right, we are all doomed.

3

If

Now let's talk about the multitude of

4

pleadings that they are getting at.

One of the

5

reasons, Your Honor, I had to file more discovery

6

requests is because they engaged in gamesmanship.

I

Outright gamesmanship all along.

7

misspelled -- or I misidentified the building in the

8

first round, and they turned around and said, "Oh, we

9

don't know what you're talking about."

So, of

10

course, I had to file an amended revised set of first

11

discovery requests.

12

said, "Okay.

13

building, Mr. King, you know, watch your typos."

14

But, no, they played the game.

15

some of this litigation from the get-go.

16

You know, they could have just

We believe you're referring to this

That's what increased

Then when His Honor said -- oh, there were

17

more applications for relief that I filed.

Well, you

18

know what those are?

19

citizen sent me from Lancaster County where cameras

20

are allowed.

21

pending as well.

22

request for relief seeking to amend my complaint to

23

include equal protection argument.

Those are pictures that a

So we have an equal protection argument
So, yes, I absolutely filed another

I can get it down

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

36

1

the street, but I can't get it here.

2

a rational basis, Your Honor, for a flatout denial

3

that I received here.

4

That's not even

And I have to know what the policy is.

If

5

there is one thing that this Court has to grant me

6

right now is the right to ask them, "What is your

7

knowledge of the policy."

That's all.

8

THE COURT:

Thank you.

9

I have reviewed all the documents that were

And you can go to Hell, Mr. King……
I am protecting my people on the Plantation.

10

filed on these motions and considered the arguments

11

today.

12

simple.

13

issues in play at this particular juncture in this

14

case.

15

been a lot of motion practice.

16

motions to dismiss that have been briefed, and

17

therefore, there is nothing that would be -- no

18

discovery that could be added to that particular

19

motion, those particular motions at this point in

20

time.

21

As I said earlier, I do like to keep things
It seems to me that there are a number of

There has been a lot of discovery.

There's

And there are pending

So it appears to me that the most sensible

22

thing to do would be to stay the discovery pending

23

the outcome of the motion to dismiss at this point in

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

37

1

time.

2

discovery could proceed forward.

3

we would have to determine whether or not the

4

questions that have been asked in either side are

5

relevant or calculated to disclose relevant

6

information at trial under those standards.

7

And if that motion is denied, obviously
And at that time,

So for today's purposes, I will grant

8

defendants' motion to stay discovery.

As far as the

9

protective order and the merits of that and the

10

merits of Mr. King's motion to compel, I'm not making

11

a ruling on either of those today.

12

stay any discovery until the resolution of the

13

dispositive motion on the motion to dismiss pending

14

before Judge Young.

15

future date, we can do so then.

I'm just going to

If we need to address those at a

16

Thank you.

17

MR. KING:

18

MR. SHANNON:

19

THE COURT:

20

(Whereupon, the proceedings in the above-

21

Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you, Your Honor.
The Court is in recess.

entitled matter were concluded.)

22
23

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

38

1
2

C E R T I F I C A T E

3
4

I, CHRISTINE L. QUINN, an Official Court

5

Reporter of the Superior Court of the State of Delaware,

6

do hereby certify the above and foregoing pages, 3

7

through 37, to be a true and accurate transcript

8

of the proceedings therein indicated on Thursday,

9

June 11, 2015, as was stenographically reported by me

10

and reduced to computer-aided transcript under my

11

direct supervision, as the same remains of record in

12

the office of the prothonotary in the Kent County

13

Courthouse, Dover, Delaware.

14
15

This certification shall be considered null and void if

16

this transcript is disassembled in any manner by any

17

party without authorization of the signatory below.

18
19

/s/ Christine L. Quinn
CHRISTINE L. QUINN

20
21

July 9, 2015_____________
Date

22
23

CHRISTINE L. QUINN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER