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Wei Rong

discussed , my question is never addressed.

Member

Registered:

01/24/06

Posts: 19

Loc: tulsa

combination(algebraic or scalar):

I know that CAESAR recommended load case setup is as

follows(except case 3):

case

case

case

case

1

2

3

4

W1+T1+P1(OPE)

W1+P1(SUS)

T1(EXP)

L1-L2(EXP)

displacement stress. The load from case4 is an algebraic

combination of load and displacement from case 1 and case 2.

Q1. As far as non-linear as concerned, I do not think it correct to

use two non-linear load results "do algebra" to calculate the load

that is the difference of two. On the contrary, I think load case 4

is correct.

Q2. What is the difference between "algebraic or scalar"?

I did not see any difference in restrains reports while outputing

case 4 with either setup, but a big difference in stress value.

Q3. To obtain the stress in case 4, CAESAR first solves case 1 and

2 for displacement and restrains, then combine them to calculate

the stress in case 4. Is it defined in B31.3 that requires

superposition of two non-linear loads?

_________________________

Simplemath

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#6549 - 09/13/06 10:34 AM

Dave Diehl

Member

Registered:

12/14/99

Posts: 1686

Loc: Houston,

TX, USA

A2: Press F1 while focused on the Combination Method cell on the

Load Case Options tab in the Static Analysis window. You will find

the description of algebraic and scalar. Here's an excerpt

(parenthetic comments are mine):

"The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scalar

case are equivalent. There may be variation at the stress level,

since in an Algebraic combination the stresses are calclulated

(from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combination they (the

unsigned stresses) are combined."

So, structural results (loads and displacements) are the same

whether Algebraic or Scalar. Only stresses are affected.

A3: B31.3 paragraph 319.2.3(b) bases the Displacement Stress

Range on "the algebraic difference between strains in the

extreme displacement condition and the original (as-installed)

condition (or any anticipated condition with a greater differential

effect)". That's what we do in CAESAR II.

includes a nonlinear (+Y) support in model to illustrate how this

works.

_________________________

Dave Diehl

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#6550 - 09/14/06 02:17 AM

case are equivalent. There may be variation at the stress level,

Member

since in an Algebraic combination the stresses are calclulated

(from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combination they (the

Registered:

unsigned stresses) are combined."

06/22/06

Posts: 15

Loc: new delhi

unsigned stresses)& Scalar combination (from the signed loads).

_________________________

naveenvujini.

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#6551 - 09/14/06 10:18 AM

Dave Diehl

Member

Registered:

12/14/99

Posts: 1686

Loc: Houston,

TX, USA

and -. You can either sum the vectors or sum the vector

magnitudes. In CAESAR II summing the magnitudes is Scalar and

combining the vectors is Algebraic (I would have prefered the

latter to be called Vector, as in Vector or Scalar summation.)

There are other combination methods listed there too.

_________________________

Dave Diehl

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#6552 - 09/14/06 12:46 PM

Wei Rong

Dave , I confused.

Member

x,y,Z,Mx,My and Mz with sign included, which is regarded as

"scalar", is the same as Vector Summation.

_________________________

Simplemath

Registered:

01/24/06

Posts: 19

Loc: tulsa

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Richard Ay

From http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Scalar :

Member

<font color="#0000ff">

Scalar: (?), n. (Math.) In the quaternion analysis, a quantity that

has magnitude, but not direction; -- distinguished from a vector,

which has both magnitude and direction.

Registered:

12/13/99

Posts: 5438

Loc: Houston,

Texas, USA

number (either dimensionless, or in terms of some physical

quantity). Scalar quantities have magnitude, but not a direction

and should thus be distinguished from vectors. More formally, a

scalar is a quantity that is invariant under coordinate rotations (or

Lorentz transformations, for relativity). A scalar is formally a

tensor of rank zero.

</font>

_________________________

Regards,

Richard Ay

Intergraph CAS

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#6554 - 09/15/06 01:43 AM

Du Wei

Member

Registered:

08/22/05

Posts: 16

Loc: Shanghai,

P.R.China

A = 3 (in X direction)

B = -4 (in Y direction)

Algebraic(A+B)= 5 (or -5)

Scalar(A+B)= -1

SRSS(A+B)= 5

ABS(A+B)= 7

Are all the above right?

Top

#6555 - 09/15/06 05:25 PM

Dave Diehl

_________________________

Dave Diehl

Member

Registered:

12/14/99

Posts: 1686

Loc: Houston,

TX, USA

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#6556 - 09/18/06 11:38 AM

Loren

Brown

Member

Registered:

10/18/01

Posts: 284

Loc: Houston,

TX

the stress level, since in an Algebraic combination the stresses

are calclulated (from the signed loads) and in a Scalar

combination they (the unsigned stresses) are combined."

This should answer your questions in their entirety. In your

example A+B = -1 for both Scalar and Algebraic. But when we

talk of Stress these are calculated from the Algebraic case from

the resulting forces and moments and in Scalar the stresses are

not re-computed, but rather added (or subtracted) from the

stress results of the other two cases.

As to why you get a big difference between stresses from load

cases T1(EXP) and L1-L2(EXP) it is simple. In T1(EXP) you have

not taken into account the possibility of piping moving under the

influence of the other loads in the system. For example if your

pipe moves to one side of a gap due to weight and then when the

system is in operation it moves to the other side of the gap, you

now have a movement of twice the gap size. This will cause a

much different stress result than T1(EXP) which can at most

move only half this distance.

_________________________

Loren Brown

Director of Technical Support

CADWorx & Analysis Solutions

Intergraph Process, Power, & Marine

12777 Jones Road, Ste. 480, Houston, TX 77070 USA

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#6557 - 09/18/06 12:07 PM

Wei Rong

All:

Member

_________________________

Simplemath

Registered:

01/24/06

Posts: 19

Loc: tulsa

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