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explanation of the load case combination

Wei Rong

I have searched through the CAESAR forum, although the topic is


discussed , my question is never addressed.

Member
Registered:
01/24/06
Posts: 19
Loc: tulsa

I would like to have clear explanation of the load case


combination(algebraic or scalar):
I know that CAESAR recommended load case setup is as
follows(except case 3):
case
case
case
case

1
2
3
4

W1+T1+P1(OPE)
W1+P1(SUS)
T1(EXP)
L1-L2(EXP)

It is suggested that Case 4 is the right way to calculate


displacement stress. The load from case4 is an algebraic
combination of load and displacement from case 1 and case 2.
Q1. As far as non-linear as concerned, I do not think it correct to
use two non-linear load results "do algebra" to calculate the load
that is the difference of two. On the contrary, I think load case 4
is correct.
Q2. What is the difference between "algebraic or scalar"?
I did not see any difference in restrains reports while outputing
case 4 with either setup, but a big difference in stress value.
Q3. To obtain the stress in case 4, CAESAR first solves case 1 and
2 for displacement and restrains, then combine them to calculate
the stress in case 4. Is it defined in B31.3 that requires
superposition of two non-linear loads?
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Simplemath
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#6549 - 09/13/06 10:34 AM

Dave Diehl
Member
Registered:
12/14/99
Posts: 1686
Loc: Houston,
TX, USA

Re: explanation of the load case combination

A1: I do not understand the question.


A2: Press F1 while focused on the Combination Method cell on the
Load Case Options tab in the Static Analysis window. You will find
the description of algebraic and scalar. Here's an excerpt
(parenthetic comments are mine):
"The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scalar
case are equivalent. There may be variation at the stress level,
since in an Algebraic combination the stresses are calclulated
(from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combination they (the
unsigned stresses) are combined."
So, structural results (loads and displacements) are the same
whether Algebraic or Scalar. Only stresses are affected.
A3: B31.3 paragraph 319.2.3(b) bases the Displacement Stress
Range on "the algebraic difference between strains in the
extreme displacement condition and the original (as-installed)
condition (or any anticipated condition with a greater differential
effect)". That's what we do in CAESAR II.

The 2006 Edition of B31.3 will have an updated Appendix S that


includes a nonlinear (+Y) support in model to illustrate how this
works.
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Dave Diehl

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#6550 - 09/14/06 02:17 AM

Re: explanation of the load case combination

naveenvujini "The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scalar


case are equivalent. There may be variation at the stress level,
Member
since in an Algebraic combination the stresses are calclulated
(from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combination they (the
Registered:
unsigned stresses) are combined."
06/22/06
Posts: 15
Loc: new delhi

i think it is reverse Algebraic combination the stresses are (the


unsigned stresses)& Scalar combination (from the signed loads).
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naveenvujini.

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#6551 - 09/14/06 10:18 AM

Dave Diehl
Member
Registered:
12/14/99
Posts: 1686
Loc: Houston,
TX, USA

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Remember that we are talking about vectors (X,Y,Z), not just +


and -. You can either sum the vectors or sum the vector
magnitudes. In CAESAR II summing the magnitudes is Scalar and
combining the vectors is Algebraic (I would have prefered the
latter to be called Vector, as in Vector or Scalar summation.)
There are other combination methods listed there too.
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Dave Diehl

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#6552 - 09/14/06 12:46 PM

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Wei Rong

Dave , I confused.

Member

In my mind,Summation of the magnitude of each freedom


x,y,Z,Mx,My and Mz with sign included, which is regarded as
"scalar", is the same as Vector Summation.
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Simplemath

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#6553 - 09/14/06 01:09 PM

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Richard Ay

From http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Scalar :

Member

<font color="#0000ff">
Scalar: (?), n. (Math.) In the quaternion analysis, a quantity that
has magnitude, but not direction; -- distinguished from a vector,
which has both magnitude and direction.

Registered:
12/13/99
Posts: 5438
Loc: Houston,
Texas, USA

In physics a scalar is a quantity that can be described by a single


number (either dimensionless, or in terms of some physical
quantity). Scalar quantities have magnitude, but not a direction
and should thus be distinguished from vectors. More formally, a
scalar is a quantity that is invariant under coordinate rotations (or
Lorentz transformations, for relativity). A scalar is formally a
tensor of rank zero.
</font>
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Regards,
Richard Ay
Intergraph CAS

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#6554 - 09/15/06 01:43 AM

Du Wei

Re: explanation of the load case combination

I present a test to clarify this issue:

Member
Registered:
08/22/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Shanghai,
P.R.China

Assume in Global Coordinate there are:


A = 3 (in X direction)
B = -4 (in Y direction)
Algebraic(A+B)= 5 (or -5)
Scalar(A+B)= -1
SRSS(A+B)= 5
ABS(A+B)= 7
Are all the above right?

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#6555 - 09/15/06 05:25 PM

Dave Diehl

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Take a look at scalar-vector illustration


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Dave Diehl

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#6556 - 09/18/06 11:38 AM

Loren

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Dave Diehl Wrote: "The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic

Brown
Member
Registered:
10/18/01
Posts: 284
Loc: Houston,
TX

case and a Scalar case are equivalent. There may be variation at


the stress level, since in an Algebraic combination the stresses
are calclulated (from the signed loads) and in a Scalar
combination they (the unsigned stresses) are combined."
This should answer your questions in their entirety. In your
example A+B = -1 for both Scalar and Algebraic. But when we
talk of Stress these are calculated from the Algebraic case from
the resulting forces and moments and in Scalar the stresses are
not re-computed, but rather added (or subtracted) from the
stress results of the other two cases.
As to why you get a big difference between stresses from load
cases T1(EXP) and L1-L2(EXP) it is simple. In T1(EXP) you have
not taken into account the possibility of piping moving under the
influence of the other loads in the system. For example if your
pipe moves to one side of a gap due to weight and then when the
system is in operation it moves to the other side of the gap, you
now have a movement of twice the gap size. This will cause a
much different stress result than T1(EXP) which can at most
move only half this distance.
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Loren Brown
Director of Technical Support
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Intergraph Process, Power, & Marine
12777 Jones Road, Ste. 480, Houston, TX 77070 USA

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#6557 - 09/18/06 12:07 PM

Re: explanation of the load case combination

Wei Rong

All:

Member

Per you explanantion , I am aware now. Thanks.


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Simplemath

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Posts: 19
Loc: tulsa