You are on page 1of 3

Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche talks about Karmapa's fake Prediction

Letter by Situ Rinpoche1

Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche clearly expresses that the Sacred Letter of

Prophecy Situpa fabricated in a 1992 meeting as the 16 th Karmapas
indications concerning his rebirth is a fake.
Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche talks about the time of the cremation of HH the
16th Karmapa in December 1981
The next day after the cremation was a meeting. At that time the Rinpoches
of all Kagy schools were there. They excluded all the elders from the
meeting and said only we, the four [regents Shamar, Situ, Kongtrl and
Gyaltsab Rinpoche] will decide!
Nobody knew what they did, they kept it secret.
About the events during and after the meeting of the four regents in 1992
when Situpa presented his prediction letter
1 To be heard on

Later [in 1992] when they showed the letter, Shamarpa didn't accept it. Then
they had a huge pproblem. Actually, Jamgn Kongtrl didn't accept it neither.
They kicked out Shamarpa, decided to put the letter in a box, let Sakya Trizin
open it and filmed it.
Jamgn Kongtrl wanted to go to Tibet to analyze the letter, but he died
before [in a car accident]. The biggest mistake was that they excluded the old
Lamas [from the search for the reincarnation], as they would at least have
said: Don't fight!
[Shamarpa asked Situpa:] Why did you hide the letter for years? You always
have lied! Shamarpa left the room.
Situpa rejoiced. Jamgn Kongtrl had a doubt but said: Let's go and see!
Everybody had a photocopy of the letter.
Shamarpa's uncle [he speaks of his cousin Topga Rinpoche] had written a
refutation of the letter. I've read it. The Karmapa Papers I've read from front
to back. I don't trust the letter but I think the reincarnation is fine. We did a
drupch [practice retreat] in Bhutan in front of Dilgo Khyentse's kudung.
Copies of the letter were distributed. [in November 1992].
Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche adds:
They showed me a photo of the boy and the letter. I said: I read it quite
carefully let it put it under my pillow! I slept about one hour and when I
woke up I said: The letter is fake, but the boy is OK. Situpa scolded me:
You shouldn't have said this!
Tashi Namgyal [Thrangu Rinpoche's cousin and the private secretary of HH
the 16th Karmapa and later generalsecretary of Karmapa Ogyen Trinle]
wasn't happy that I sayed this.
Again Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche speaking avout himself:
About connection between Chokyur Lingpa and Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche,
whos considered a emanation of the first:
I told Shamarpa: We are different When Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and
Chokgyur Lingpa flourished, you didn't even exist [the Geluk government
banned the enthronement of the Shamarpas], whereas Situpa existed, so no
matter what is right or wrong, my loyality will always be with Situpa.
Shamarpa is a very high Lama, but we have no connection. In the whole
tersar teachings of Chokgyur Lingpa there is not even a sloka [verse] related
to Shamarpa.
About Chokgyur Lingpa's prophecy:
This thangka existed in Gelak monastery and Dilgo Khyentse Rpx saw a cop,
I saw a it as well.
Situpa knew of this thangka and commanded me to bring the thangka [to

India]. I took it, showed it to the Dalai Lama and gave it to Situpa who
printed it and distributed largely the copies . It became an important factor.
Many people followed the Thangka and its prophecy Thrangu, Tenga,
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, to them it was more important then the opinion of
Shamarpa or Situpa.2

2Ugyen Tobgay talk about Karmapa's fake Prediction Letter by Situ Rinpoche,