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UFO Coverup

Startling Revelations Concerning the Subject of Aerial Phenomena

and UFOs




John Lear, retired airline captain, with over 19,000 hours of flight-time, has
flown in over 100 different types of planes in 60 different counties around
the world.

Son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear, John is the only pilot to hold every FAA
airplane certificate, to include airplane transport rating, flight instructor,
ground instructor, flight navigator, engineer, aircraft dispatcher, airframe
powerplant mechanic, parachute rigger, and tower operator.

He flew secret missions for the CIA in Central and Southeast Asia, Eastern
Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1966 and 1983. He has flown
as Captain and check pilot for over 10 different airlines.

John held 17 world records including speed around the world in a Lear Jet
Model 24, set in 1966. He was presented with the PATCO award for
outstanding airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. He was
the youngest American to climb the Matterhorn in Switzerland in 1959 and
in the 1970's owned and skippered the Americas Cup boat, the Soliloquy,
out of Marina Del Rey.

In 1968, John raced a Douglas B26 Invader in the unlimited class at the
Reno air races.

He was a Senior Vice Commander of the China Post 1, the American Legion
Post for Soldiers of Fortune. He is a 20 year member of the special
operations Association.

John is the current owner and operator of the only permitted gold mine
operation Cutthroat Mining Corporation in Clarke County, Nevada. His
efforts to clean up the Treasure Hawk Gold Butte mine won him the state
of Nevada award for excellence in mining reclamation in 1999. John is a
MSHA (Mine, Safety, and Health Administration) and holds a blaster license
from the Nevada certified mining instructor from the Nevada State Fire

John's passion for the preservation and documentation of the history of

the Gold Butte has made him a authority on the area.

John has been a resident of Las Vegas since 1994 and was a republican
State Senate candidate in 1980.

John has 4 daughters, 2 grandchildren, and lives with his wife in Las Vegas.
- Las Vegas businesswoman, Mary Lee Lear in Sunrise Manor.

In 1988, John met and became friends with Bob Lazar, the government
scientist who worked on the back-engineering of the propulsion system of
the extraterrestrial UFOs at area S-4. That's just outside the infamous and
ultrasecret Area 51.

In March 1989, Lazar took John to an area close to Rachel Nevada where he
witnessed the flight of a flying saucer at the exact time Lazar told him it
would occur.

Two weeks later on another UFO spying mission, John, Lazar and 3 others
were caught by security forces - (that's CAUGHT folks) - and the next day, -
the very next day - Lazar lost his job at the government program for that
breach of security. Lazar has been branded by many as a fraud, a charge to
which John responds, " Those who say that Lazar was a fraud simply don't
know the facts of this incredible 12 month period. I was there - they

During the late 1980's, John tracked down and found the Army Intelligence
Analyst who read, probably by accident, the U.S. government report
Grudge 13, which documented the history of the U.S. UFO coverup and
details of saucer recoveries, disposition of their occupants, and handling
(That's HANDLING) of civilian witnesses.

The report included clear photographs of these recovered extraterrestrial

craft and beings - (That's BEINGS) found inside. It further detailed how
recoveries were made worldwide and specially designed transports to
accommodate the craft.

John spent time poking around other UFO related areas to include Dulce,
Secora, Aztec, Alamagorda, Albuquerque, Los Alamos and Bentwaters
airbase near London.

Since that time, John has learned many incredible and interesting facts
about the solar system and planets including the existence of huge
structures, arches, bridges and domes on the moon, cities on Mars, huge
extraterrestrial ships mining the rings of Saturn, the incredible but secret
agenda of Apollo 17, to the huge rectangular opening in the south massif
of the Taurus-Littrow Highlands called Nansen.

Art Bell continues John Lears biography:

John Lear suspects that Venus does not have the sulfuric acid atmosphere
with an 800 degree temperature that we've all been led to believe and
instead is a planet very similar to ours, but with a similar, but much more
technologically advanced civilization.

John Lear believes that the government has very good reasons for their
continued coverup but refuses to discuss them.

He also believes that the government never, ever intends to released any
UFO information and if forced to say anything, will obscure, tangle and
weave a deceptive lie.

Asked outright if the public has a right to know these facts, John says, "No!
They don't!"


"Because!" was his admittedly evasive answer.

Then why, after 10 years of silence, is John Lear talking once again, after
almost 60 years, the majority of U.S. population don't believe that Roswell

"I certainly do not represent a threat to this kind of security", he responds.


Start of Interview between Art Bell and John Lear:

A= Art Bell
J = John Lear

A - Other than the fact that we got in touch once again John, I really am
curious. Why! After 10 years, why break your silence now? and Welcome!

J - Thank you Art, You mean I could have said, "No!" ?

A - laughs heartily - Yeah! Too late! laughs again. Yeah! You could have
said, No! Sure! I'm - I'm serious - Why after 10 years of not a peep, why

J - Well you know, the government in charge of this coverup, - uh - works

so well at making your life miserable when you go around talking about
this stuff, that I quit and my life - the quality of my life improved about
200%. But now, the coverup is so well in place, that they certainly would
not be threatened by me going on the radio just once and saying what I

A - Yeah! Well, you lost jobs because of this, right?

J - Yeah - I lost two. I lost one with an airline and one with a government
program that I really wanted. It was with Lockheed, and they went for my
clearance and they were told by the airforce that now - under no
circumstances would John Lear ever get another clearance. Now - I had a
clearance up at the test site for some work I did with Dyn-electron - it was
just monitoring below ground tests from the air with different airplane,
but - uh - that clearance is still there, - not active - but they weren't going
to renew it under any circumstances and they made it plain - so its cost me
a little bit, but I managed to survive.

A - Um - all right! You know - before we launch into the whole spectrum of
things we have to talk about John, uh - when you and I were on the phone
the other day, you began to tell me about 9/11 and I'd really would like to
talk about that. Uh - you have a perspective on the 9/11 thing that people
should at least hear. I mean - everybody can make up their own minds
about it, but you're a commercial pilot and there are certain things you
know. So how about it?

J - Well! This is a sensitive subject, and I told you that I was hesitant to
talk about it.

A - That's why I'm bringing it up first! (Art laughs again)

J - But whoever concocted 9/11, and it certainly wasn't Osama Bin Ladin,
they had two objectives - one was to polarize American's opinion against
Arab-Muslims and number two was to get the United States - trick the U.S.

- essentially to get Osama out of Afghanistan because Osama - as bad as
he was - he was shutting down all the heroin poppy fields and was causing
a disastrous monetary loss to the illegal drug industry - and last year,
which was a year after we went into Afghanistan, National Geographic did
a special on TV, that ran for several months and documented the 500%
increase in drugs flowing out of Afghanistan 'after' we went in there and
eliminated Osama.

A - laughs - They actually did. I recall that. I remember that report! Um - so

you are sort of charging that we went in there after Osama - after Osama
to rescue the drug trade?

J - No! Well - that wasn't what 'we' thought - we were sort of tricked into
doing that. We were tricked into thinking that Osama was responsible for
9/11, but to get a proper perspective on who 'did' the World Trade Center -
uh - you have to understand what a magnificent feat of airmanship this
was. It was 'disastrous' and was horrible for this country, but this was not
accomplished by some guys who went to Florida and got some instructions
on a Cessna or a Piper and this was not accomplished by somebody who
had a right seat on a 727.

A - What about simulators? Flight simulators?

J - This had to be accomplished by pilots who got instruction - were taken

to 'honest-to-God' Boeing 757 simulators which is - you know - the 757 and
767 the same cockpit essentially and you get the same rating and whoever
concocted this whole thing knew that on a particular day that airplanes
themselves could be switched because of maintenance problems and by
selecting airlines that had that airplane, they had everything covered.

A - Huh! So it actually took a fair amount of skill to plow into those


J - I would say that it took about 200 or 300 hours for each pilot - and we're
talking about . . .

A - 200 or 300 hours? But you mean of simulator time?

J - Of simulator time! They had to learn how to step into the cockpit - and
that's a whole thing - getting into the airplane, but that's separate from
that - they had to get into the cockpit and pull the circuit breaker for the
transponder - sit in the pilot seat, disconnect the auto-pilot from the flight
management system - turn the airplane, push the throttles all the way
forward, find Manhattan - then line up on a pre-planned course - doing 10

miles a minute - they were clocked by air traffic control doing 600 miles an
hour at 700 feet above the ground and fly directly into the middle the
center of the World Trade Center. Now that - you know and the air races
only fly 400 miles an hour and that's difficult - but to fly an airliner like the
size of a 757 at 700 feet - I mean that took some skill and that took a long
time to train that - probably a year.

A - That's wild (unintelligible)

J - In addition to that - hitting the Trade Center was a feat - but hitting the
Pentagon was even more of a feat because when you are going that fast
there is a tremendous amount of air creating this lift and as you head
towards the ground, that air reacts against the wing and pushes you up,
so whoever - whoever hit that - trained to hit the Pentagon at the 3rd story
was highly trained because when he came towards the ground - there was
a tremendous amount of lift and you would have to trim forward and push
with an incredible amount of strength to not be pushed up and over the
Pentagon to hit the 3rd story.

A - But what about the plane that went down that didn't make it - that was
probably headed towards the Whitehouse?

J - uh - Well that was shot down by an F-16 out of a base south of New York
and uh . . .

A - How can you be so sure?

J - Well because there were parts found 5 miles away - uh - because there
were eye-witnesses to it being shot down - uh - there is corroborating
evidence somebody who was listening to a cell phone conversation at the
time this was going on who said they heard the rapid - like the ...
described it as a pilot rapidly turning pages - well - that's not what was
happening - that was the cannon fire hitting the fuselage and that's what
accounted for - what they called the 'smoke ' in the air in the cabin - well
that wasn't smoke - that was the depressurization causing the

A - Well so you are saying definitely that you feel it was shot down . . .

J - But you have to understand the governments position - #1 - they

couldn't 'possibly' reveal this information because - you know - it was
something they had to do - the problem was that once the passengers got
control of the airplane there was no way to communicate with air traffic

control or communicate with whoever was directing the attack for the

A - Now you say Osama Bin Ladin wasn't responsible but there are video
tapes showing Osama with his Lieutenant sort of laughing and joking -
they didn't expect such a grand result and all that baloney - what about

J - He might have been told at the last minute, but if that's all we've got,
people say 'how come we haven't got him'? But the bottom line is, we don't
want to get Osama - we'd have to put him on trial and other than that
video tape, we don't have a 'shred' - not a 'shred' of evidence against him.

A - Uh huh! Yet, it might be enough in a court of law!

J - In a world court?

A - You might be right! Well! Uh - I don't know - You've shocked me with

some of your views. on the 9/11 business. No question about that! 100's of
hours - Where would they get simulator training like that? - that many
hours . . .

J - Therein lies the problem. Because they 'certainly' couldn't waltz into any
airline in the United States and get that kind of time - I mean most of the
airlines in the US who have 757's use them 24 hours a day and they
certainly aren't in the habit of renting - uh - to unauthorized people like
somebody going in there saying 'Hey! give me 1500 hours of time" - Its
just not going to happen. They would have to find another 757 elsewhere
in the world and if you look around in the Middle-East and there's certainly
none there because at least not in any Arab Country because they have
airbusses - strictly airbusses - They would have to find 757's somewhere

A - How many simulators are there?

J - Well! There are lots of them - but uh - well - not lots of them - but
there's certain around somewhere and they'd have to make a deal
somewhere - obviously they got training because they couldn't do it
without training .

A - But what we've been given by the media - by the mass media - you
know - they were down in Florida - getting a few hours on lighter aircraft -
that doesn't wash at all . . .

J - No possibility! If you talk to any pilot that knows anything about this
and that was - and that was a feat with the (unintelligible) with the benefit
with 19,000 hours in all the airplanes I've flown including air races - the
Douglas B-26, I doubt that I could have done that the 1st time . . .

A - Really!

J - You are doing a mile every 6 seconds - so you had to learn where to line
up, you know ... which reference points to get - you know - where to be at
a particular time hit that building. It had to be planned for a long, long
time. So this is a tremendous amount of skill, and it took a long time to do,
particularly you know - they probably got somebody who didn't have
thousands of hours - they probably had to train them from the ground up,
and in this case it was relatively easy because they didn't have to learn
how to take off and land - he didn't have to learn how do a single engine
approach - he didn't have to learn to do a (unintelligible) or MBD approach,
or anything like that ...

A - Just hit a building ...

J - Yeah!

Stop for Newsbreak!


Art continues the interview:

A - A lot of people listening tonight will have no idea of you and the year of
Lazar - a lot of people of course are rather recent listeners and its been a
decade although we have interviewed - I actually interviewed Bob Lazar
not too long ago, John ...

J - Yes! I listened to it.

A - Ah - you did ... You heard it!

J - Yes!

A - Um - it might be really interesting to kind of get that period of time

from you - for all the new listeners - there are so many ...

J - I served some time with Bob a month or so ago. I had an occasion to

ferry an L 10-11 from where it was painted in the south - the name of the

airport escapes me, but we took it up to Roswell - and as you know -
Roswell is a - there is a huge airport - a repository for old airplanes - not
old - well yeah - old airliners - there must be 200 of them there - just every
kind you can imagine - L 10-11s, 747's, DC 10s, DC 9's ...

A - They are really kept there to avoid erosion that would occur elsewhere
- right - its desert ...

J - Yeah - Mohave is one, Victorville is another - Roswell ... anyway - Well I

went to Roswell - and coming back I took the bus from Roswell to
Albuquerque and Bob picked me up and I spent a few days at his house
and talked about old times and stuff ... and it was interesting, but how I
got into all this was sometime in 1984-1985. I picked up a book "Missing
Time" by Budd Hopkins - ...

A - Of course!

J - and when I read it - I said, "Holy Smokes! This is true!" I mean - it gave
me chills and at that time I was flying with American Transair, and I was
based in New York and I gave Budd a call and ended up over at his house
and uh - I spent a fascinating evening with him and ummm - and that got
me really interested. And then ... Whitley Streiber wrote Communion and
that was even more scary. I remember reading that book - and I went to
the store to get it and I got a call to take a flight from Las Vegas to
Cleveland and I remember flying the 727 on the way to Cleveland and
reading this thing and how scary it was ... but anyway I got interested in
all this ... lets see ... what happened next ... I went on this little tour
around Colorado, New Mexico - checking out all these rumours - it was just
'fascinating ' and then I started to give lectures - and I gave - and at that
time I was on my soap box and ... "We 'deserve' to know this stuff." and at
that time I had no idea how heavily involved the government was in this - I
thought they were really just dismissing it.

A - You went at this almost like an obsession ....

J - It 'was' an obsession... and it almost caused a divorce - because my wife

turned off the phone - I mean - changed my numbers and um - it was a
very - very turbulent time. But anyway, in the summer of 1988, a guy
called up, during all of this turbulence, and he said, "Hey! I'd like to get a
copy of your tapes." I said, "No! I'm out of this. I'm done with it. It's just a
mess.!" He said, "Well! If you ever need an appraisal of your house, I'll
trade you. I'm an appraiser." I said, "I'll tell you what. I need my house
appraised. I'll trade you the tapes for the appraisal."

A - laughs. "Oh yes!"

J - So, he came over and he brought this guy named Bob Lazar to hold the
measuring tape. Well, we sat down and talked about UFOs and Bob started
this rolling his eyes and Bob said, "I've never heard to much BS in my life."
He said, "I worked at Los Alamos. If this were true, I would have known it. I
have the higher clearance." And, you know - people who have a II
clearance say they have the highest. So anyway, over the next few
months, we got together and me and Bob and I kept feeding Bob
information and like about October or November, it became apparent to
him something was going on, and I think there was two or three things I
had said ... One - I had said there was a facility called YY-II - a secret
facility and that's where they keep the live aliens and I mentioned
something else ... I forget what it was - but anyway, his friends at Los
Alamos wrote him back and said, "Indeed there is a YY-II, but that doesn't
mean their's an alien there, but there was a secret area ... but anyway
...Bob decided to re-enter the scientific community and Bob called Dr.
Teller. I was there when he made the call and I reminded Dr. Teller of when
he was at Los Alamos and asked him if he (Bob) could re-enter the
scientific community. Dr. Teller said, "Do you want to work in Livermore,
California, or do you want to work out there at Nellis? Bob said, "I want to
work at Area 51". Tell said, "Let me see what I can do." Well, the next
thing I know is Bob has three security interviews down at EG&G Facility
here and he mentioned to me after the second interview - they said, "Do
you know John Lear, and what is your relationship with him?" Well Bob
said, "Well! I know him. He's a person who sticks his nose where it doesn't
belong." And Bob said when he told them that - what he didn't tell them
that 'he' likes to stick his nose where it doesn't belong.

A. - (chuckles)

J - So anyway, the next thing I know is in December of 1988, Bob shows up

at my house in the evening and sits down. I'm wiped out - sitting down
doing some paperwork and Bob sit in a chair in front of my desk and Bob
says, "I saw a disk today!"

A - Here's where I want to stop you and ask you a quick question - you
know - when Bob first came to you at the point you are talking about right
now, what do you think his motivation was? Because - of course ....

J - Well - he told me what his motivation was. He said, "I saw a disk today".
and I said, "What are you talking about? I said, "Theirs or ours?" He said,
"Theirs!" I said, "Did you go to Area 51?" He said, "Yeah! I just got back!" I
said, "Then what are you doing 'here' Bob? This is fantastic! ...obviously

they followed you. I said, "Why don't you find out what's going on and
'then' tell me? And he said, "Because you have taken so much flack over
this ...

A - Yeah!

J - ... so much ridicule. I just wanted to tell you that I saw it." That was
his motive.

A - So you think he was coming to you ... privately ... at that point ...

J - Yeah!

A - Just saying, "Look! What you believe ... its true ... I can verify it! It's

J - Right!

A - So, it was just because you're friends. He saw your struggle.

J - Right!

A - And from that point?

J - Well! From that point - uh - you know - he kept - he was ... Well he
worked from December 1988 to March 21, 1989, which will always be a
date that we'll always remember and that ... the Tuesday before ... the
21st was a Wednesday. The day before ... I was over to his house and he
said, "Do you want to go and see a disk fly tomorrow?" I said, "Well, how?"
and he said, "I know a place we can watch it and they always test on
Wednesdays at sunset because that is the time this road is least traveled."
So I said, "Okay! Let's go." So Gene Haupt and me and Bob got in my
motor home and I think Bob's wife was with us and we drove up there -
just south of the black mail box, which we didn't know about then.

A - The now infamous black mail box...

J - Right! I set up the telescope and here comes this thing - from behind
the mountains where Groom Lake was and it flitted around and I'm trying
to focus this 8" Celestron telescope which was very difficult.

A - Bad idea!

J - But finally I go tit and I saw a disk that was oriented about 45 degrees
to the horizon and it was glowing - it was yellowish orange and it was

glowing - and it was settling back down behind the mountains and I said,
"Quick Gene - take a look, (laughs) and as I stepped back from the
telescope, I hooked the tripod leg and go tit off ... off the focus and of
course, there's a big laugh about that - a nd at one time I had those tapes -
all those tapes, but I'm moving out of my house now and I stored
everything in the garage as far as tapes and UFO books, all the documents
and everything and somebody came and stole half of it, including my UFO
books and everything and I don't know who it was and I don't' expect it ...
you know ... I think it was just an accident that somebody took that stuff
and that tape is gone.

A - Well . a telescope of that power would actually give you pretty good
resolution - if you really managed to get it and old the focus ..

J - Well, I saw it - it was perfect. No doubt about it.

A - How much could you see beyond a glowing disk, John?

J - That was it!

A - That was it! No further details of the craft itself? Could you even
estimate from distance - the size?

J. - No! So, we stayed around for another couple hours and nothing
happened, os we went home and so the next Wednesday night, I was on a
trip - an airline trip and I couldn't go, but I called Bob and I said, "What's
going on?" and he said, "We're going fishing tonight!", which I new they
were going up to Groom Lake, and uh - which I knew - that night, I think
him, Annie, Wyatt, Keeley, and George Knapp went and that was the night
that George got the film that he got. The third night which was the
following Wednesday- was March 6th. And that's when we went up and we
had all the geiger counters and the cameras and everything and that's the
night we got caught and we were going down the road that accessed to
the back gate of Groom Lake, and I kept saying ...
"C'mon! Lets stop here ..."

A - How close .. how close were you allowed to get?

J - About 10 miles.

A - 10 miles - so you were how far inside that 10 mile point?

J - uh - I think we were about 10 miles and we hand't even come to the

security gate - that's way up in the ridge area.

A - I guess - what I'm getting at - is ... were you in an area where you could
legally be?

J - Oh yeah - absolutely!

A - All right!

J - But we were going further - and I kept saying, "Okay! Lets stop!" and
then we saw some headlights in front of us and I said, "Okay! Let's turn
around. There's no use in trying to push this issue." I said, "We're not
going to be able to get out now," and as we turned around, I forget who
was driving - I think it was Bob's wife's sister, and I said, "Don't get stuck
in the dirt," and se we turned around and we head as fast as we can down
this road and there were these jeeps or vehicles following us and when I
told this story - I said there were 4 and Bob says, "No! There were only
two." I forget how any there were... but anyway, we got to a point almost
to the road and we decided they were too close behind us - so we ... Bob
says, "Let's stop. I can't afford to get caught. I'm going to go out into the
desert... you guys can do what you have to do" ... and so we got out.. Bob
went into the desert ... I set up the telescope and these guys pull up - form
a circle - they had guns ... They said, "What are you guys doing?" and I
said, "We're just looking at the stars." and they said, "Well! How come you
were running away from us?" I said, "We thought you might be dopers."
and he said, "Well! We're not", and he said, "We need to see some I.D." So
everybody had to give their Social Security and their driver's license
number and we were there about 1/2 an hour. They checked everything
and they gave us the briefing, and they said, "We can't kick you off here -
this is BLM land, but we can make it awfully difficult for you if you stay."
And we said, "Okay! We'll go!" and so they leave ... remember this is at
night ... it's extremely dark - wa out in the middle of the desert - and we
had a trunk open which cast a light and I'm loading stuff and we wait
about 15 minutes and Bob comes out of the desert and we sit there
laughing and joking about seeing flying saucers and so on and so on ...
unbeknownst to us - the security team stopped just about 100 yards and
they were filming us and they had a parabolic reflector and they were
recording what we were saying. So, we pack up everything and we go and
get on the road just where it meets 278 - and as we get on the road - I
think its Knights or Lincoln County Sheriff stops us and they pull up and
got the lights going and got the bull horn. He says, "All right! Everybody
out! Put your hands on the car," And so we got out and put our hands on
the car and he comes over and uh - we were there about an hour and
checks I.D. and he was talking to somebody and pretty soon he comes up
and says, "Look! I have only two questions." He says, "One - where's the
gun?" because we had mentioned that Bob went out into the desert with a

gun - and he says, "I want to know why there are 5 people here and there
were only 4 when security stopped you." And so nobody said anything and
I have to admit that I made one of the monumental mistakes of my life -
and Bob Lazar will never - ever forgive me for this ... but its my nature ...
when he asked for the driver's license, I said, "Mine's in the trunk" and so
we had to open the trunk with all the geiger counters and film in there and
after about an hour hemming and hawing and not giving him an answer -
to anything - he said ... and I remember this officer's name .... its a
French name ... and he still works there for Lincoln County and I see him
from time to time. He says, "Look! I don't know why I've been told to do
this, but I've been told to let you guys go, so pack your stuff and get out of
here." So we packed up our stuff and left ... and the next morning, Bob
got a call from his boss ...

A - If I can stop you, John do you think you were let go - was because of
the Lazar name?

J - Right!

A - Yeah! Okay!

J - They didn't want any more ... publicity ... so the next morning Bob gets
a call from his boss - and he said, "Bob! Don't go to work - I'm going to pick
you up" and he picked him up and drove him up to Indian Springs which is
the center for security for the test site, and they pulled him out of the car
with a gun in his ear and they said, "Bob - when we gave you this security
clearance - it didn't mean that you were supposed to tell 'all' your friends
about the flying saucers - do you want to work here or not?". And he was
non-committal. He came home and told us about what happened. I said,
"Bob - are you going back to work", and he said, "Probably not!" and I said,
"Why?" and he said, "the main reason is ... the last time I went up ..." he
said, "When I got on that boat, I remember getting into that 737 and
getting off and I can't remember what I did up there ... and I can't work
under conditions like that."


A - Okay John! We left off where essentially Bob said, "Nah! I don't think I'll
go back to work there ...

J - Yeah! The last thing he said was he could remember getting on the 737
and he could remember getting off, but he couldn't remember what he did
there. ... I had done - so in the next day or so - on Saturday - No .. on
Sunday morning, I had done some interviews with George Knapp - I can't

remember what the show was called, but we discussed UFOs and
everything and that night he called me and he said, "John! You won't
believe it, but the phones are ringing off the hook here ... People want
more. What can we do for an encore? I said, "Well, maybe I can get Bob to
come on and so that I talked to Bob and that ... and then on Monday night
he did the news show where he showed them - in 'shadow' telling that
when he worked up there ... working on extraterrestrial craft -

A - Oh! That was a big broadcast.

J - and then a few days later, George Knapp, Bob Stova - who headed
Channel 8 came up and George Knapp said "I have Bob here and want to
talk to Lazar and want to see if he's telling the truth and I wanna' go ahead
with a special." He said, "I need to get Bob Stova's permission. " So we sat
here for an hour or tow and they grilled Bob this way and that and then
finally Bob Stova said, "Okay! Go ahead and do it," and then George then
did a 6-part documentary on Lazar.

A - Yeah! Very famous documentary - uh ... Channel 8 stayed .. really

stayed very heavily on that and that was it? ...

J - That was pretty much it. Bob gave the Lazar tape which said what he
learned up there and uh - We kept in touch for many years and Bob did
'Desert Blast' every year until he ran 'Desert Blast 13' ... was the last one
that we ran ... that was the largest outlaw fireworks show west of the
Mississippi and uh - we didn't do it again for several reasons - one -
because we did 13 shows with tremendously high explosive displays and
there wasn't one injury. Bob said, We've gotten away with this long
enough - for 13 years - lets bring this to a close ...

A - I've got a computer here and people can send questions as we go along
and somebody is asking, "Well! That proves that Bob knew the schedule
roughly of what was happening up there, but that doesn't necessarily
prove the rest of his story." How confident are you that everything that
you were told by Bob was right on the money?

J - You know - I'm confident that everything he told me was true and I've
heard that argument also several times ... that he knew the schedule - but
also and that maybe he was just a cook up there - so if he was a cook ...
that means that they told the cooks when they were going to fly the flying

A - laughs - Yeah! That's a very good point - a very good point. But I'm
gonna ...

J - There is no way I can prove all that happened, but I can just say ... "I
believe it!"

A - Of course! And you can say what you believe you saw with your own

J - Yeah!

A - Do you have ... How much of an idea do you have with regard to the
capability of the craft you saw fly - ... 'fly' is the wrong word I guess ...

J - Well! Bob said it had tremendous capabilities - it could certainly travel

outside this solar system and go to other solar systems. The fuel - he
worked on the propulsion system. When you go to work there - everything
is so compartmentalized - other than of the original briefing that he got
where he learned - he got to where he knew a little of what was going on -
they don't allow you to work on all aspects of it - everything - he had to
pick on e field and his field that he picked was to try to duplicate the
propulsion with present-day technology - and of course its impossible ...
they are hundreds of thousands of years ahead of us and uh .. although we
can understand how it works, there is no way we can contain an anti-
matter reactor .

A - John! Uh... Bob got his hand on element 116. uh - crucial to the
operation of the crafts - of element 116.

J - That is the fuel.

Element 116

Element 116 has no uses as only about three atoms of this element have
ever been made.


The essentials

Name: ununhexium
Symbol: Uuh
Atomic number: 116
Atomic weight: [ 292 ]
CAS Registry ID: 54100-71-9
Group number: 16
Group name: Chalcogen
Period number: 7
Block: p-block

Here is a brief description of ununhexium.

Standard state: presumably a solid at 298 K

Colour: unknown, but probably metallic and silvery white or grey in
Classification: Metallic

An isotope of Element 116 (292Uuh) was identified in the reaction of 248Cm

with 48Ca.
It is very shortlived and decomposes to a known isotope of element 114,

114 Uuq.


Here is a brief summary of the isolation of ununhexium.

Results published on the 6th December 2000 concerning recent

experiments at Dubna in Russia
(involving workers from The Joint Institute for Nuclear Research, Dubna,
Russian Federation;
The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, California, USA; The Research
Institute of Atomic
Reactors, Dimitrovgrad, Russian Federation; and The State Enterprise
Electrohimpribor, Lesnoy,
Russian Federation) describe the decay of the isotope 292Uuh
(produced in the reaction of 248Cm with 48Ca) to 292Uuq.

Cm +
116 Uuh + 4 n

This decayed 47 milliseconds later as follows to a previously identified

isotope of elements 114, Uuq.

116 Uuh 288
114 Uuq + 4
2 He

Historical information

Discovered by: Yu.Ts. Oganessian, V.K. Utyonkov, Yu.V. Lobanov, F.Sh.

Abdullin, A.N. Polyakov,
I.V. Shirokovsky, Yu.S. Tsyganov, G.G. Gulbekian, S.L. Bogomolov, B.N. Gikal,
A.N. Mezentsev,
S. Iliev, V.G. Subbotin, A.M. Sukhov, O.V. Ivanov, G.V. Buklanov, K.Subotic,
M.G. Itkis, K.J. Moody,
J.F. Wild, N.J. Stoyer, M.A. Stoyer, R.W. Lougheed, C.A. Laue, Ye.A. Karelin,
and A.N. Tatarinov

Discovered at: Dubna, Russia

Discovered when: 2000

A - The fuel ... did he ... you remember ... you don't have to answer these if
you don't want to, but did he bring element 116 to our home?

J - No! It was at his house.

A - It was at his house ... you saw it yourself ...

J - Yes!

A - Huh! ummm - what became of the ... element 116 that he possessed?

J - No comment!

A - No comment! Okay! Um... Let me ask you something easy ... maybe its
not easy ... umm... you are a pilot ... you've been a pilot all your adult life I
guess... correct?

J - Yeah!

A - Something a lot of us wonder.. is .. how many pilots see these craft? -

uh - a lot of people ... I've noticed something John, we get a lot more UFO
sightings - when Mars is getting close and people are paying attention to
the sky ... most people go around - pay attention to what is in front of
them - or the road or whatever - they have to - they don't spend a lot of
time looking at the sky ... ah - but pilots do - they spend a lot of time
looking at the sky and many of us wonder - how many pilots actually see
these things?

J - That's really a misconception - because when you are a pilot and flying
an airplane - particularly in this day and age .. you are concentrating on
what is going on inside the cockpit - during the nighttime - even if you
have the lights turned down - there is no way you can see out the windows
- I mean- you can press our eyeball against the window and see stars but
its not like you can sit in your normal piloting position and see outside ...
you can't. And then during the daytime - uh - you know ... your attention
isn't outside - I mean - you look out occasionally from time to time - so
most of your concentration is inside - you are talking to the air-traffic
control - you're monitoring the instruments and paying attention to flying.

A - so then ..

J - But - but - so in answer to your question ... how many many people see?
... not many. I've heard some stories of guys who see stuff outside and of
course, I may have been a little different. I spend a lot more time looking
outside - um - I remember one of the last flights I made with a cargo airline

and where its very late at night and I'm looking out ... I see this thing go
streaking across the sky and go straight up and I thought ' oh gosh, I wish
the crew had seen that so then I didn't say anything - and then it
happened again and then I thought - well Gosh - maybe it'll happen again,
so I said, "Hey you guys - look at this ... and it happened three more times.
I was - I don't know what it was .. it came streaking about 1/2 way across
the horizon, directly over the airplane and then shot straight up ...

A - Uh - (at a loss for words) uh - okay! There is a milliion things I want to

ask you about, for example: uh - Richard C. Hoagland, in the early years
had some shocking stuff, he said about things that are on our moon - just
incredible things - tall spires, structures and buildings and things - just
incredible stuff - and people laughed - they ought not be laughing at that,

J. No! Richard C. Hoagland inspired me to look into that and I ordered some
prints from NASA and of course - when you order picures of the moon from
NASA, and they don't come from NASA - there are three separate places
where they come from and to go back to the middle 60's when NASA really
realized what was going on, they had the lunar orbitor series - there were
five camera ships they sent to the moon with fabulous detailed
photographs of the moon - and when they came back, they were chock full
of these buildings and arches, domes, and buildings and of ... you know ...
there were people who spent their entire careers airbrushing this stuff out
and then taking a picture of 'that' picture and that's what you would get
for public information and thats the picture that got sent out to the pubic.
Once in awhile you could order a picture and they forgot to airbrush - or
they didn't know it, and one thing they could never have imagined in the
60's - that in the 90's computer technolog would make it possible that we
could scan a photograph like that and enlarge it and find the airbrush
marks and find stuff that they didn't see - looking at the print. You can go
right down and see little tracks and all kinds of stuff.

A - So - you think they're just erasing this stuff, they have been erasing
stuff like crazy - to protect us from the truth?

J - Well yeah! They are having a really hard time keeping this stuff from
the public. I mean, every time you send something to Mars, something
happens, it doesn't work, they have an accident. etc. We sent Clementine
to the moon, it took all these fabulous pictures and it spun out of control
and the guys at NASA think - you know - can we do this? Do you think the
public is going to fall for this every single time? And some guy would say,
"Well! They have so far and ...

A - Well then - you've been following Richard's career to some degree?

J - Absolutely! What a guy!

A - All right! Like a year ago, John, he suddenly came up with these
photographs of Mars and you know I've done qite a bit of flying - I'm surely
not a pilot - but you know - when you look at these photographs - the more
recent ones of Mars - even I sat here and went, "Oh my God!" - it's like I'm
looking down - on a damn city - like a city - it looks like a city from the air
and buildings everywhere - square shapes that don't make any sense on
Marts from pictures that were imaged just below the surface. I don't know
if you'lve seen these or not - have you?

J - Which ones are we talking about?

A - Umm - they're fairly ... within the year ... recent pictures - withi a year -
imaged kind of - some of the ...just below the ground - you know

J - Yeah! Yeah! sure ...

A - My God! they ...

J - You know - there are some taken above the ground that are equally

A - They are ...

J - We are running into the same thing with Richard that we run in with
UFO people as ... Everyone believes their own research, but when they
hear another story ... "Oh that guy is full of B.S.!!" and uh - so you kind of
have to do your own - as you research this. Now the last thing I came
across ... have you seen the city of Tithonia? Cydonia

A - Yes!

J - Okay! now that stuff is fascinating. I called up that guy at Redstar and
said, "Send me that stuff - and what is so fascinating about it - is I don't
know if you can do this today, but you used to be able to go to Malin Space
Systems and download it - the film - yourself and look at it yourself - you
didn't have to go buy a CD.

A - Yeah! - Its incredible stuff. I mean - to me - from the air - it looks very
city-like. John that would imply a gigantic civilization at least at one time -
was on Mars - without question!

J - Yeah! When Bob was wrking at the test site, one of the things he saw
was close-up views of Cydonia - they were taken at very close range - he
said that the pyramid on Cydonia - you could see doors and windows
and ... you know - there was no doubt - that was a place where somebody
lived - and so - he and I had an occasion to drive down to LA - to pick up
his jet car and when we were down there - we drove over to JPL and we
wetn to see the guy - who was head of - um - was it Voyager that went ...
I've lost my memory - what was the name of the ... was it Voyager II? that
went to Mars?

A - Well! It was Voyager!

J - Okay! So we went to see the guy who was head of Voyager imaging and
we said - "Bob has been up to Area 51 and Bob saw these close up photos
and um - but the photos which are released to the public - we don't see
this particular photo " We said, "This photo we saw was taken at a very
low altitutde, uh - and at a specific angle," and we said, "Did ... was
Voyager ever tasked - sent at a lower angle to take pictures and the guy
said, "As a matter of fact, we did task it to go lower, but we didn't take any

A - (Art chuckles)

J - Now here's the beauty of this thing and this is how a coverup works - he
knew that it went lower, but even he didn't have a high enough clearance -
even though he was head of imaging - that that picture was taken.

A - Uh - John - why do you think that all of this is being withheld from us?
The whole thing - why? Why are we being protected from this
information? I mean ... On the one hand, people call us and say ...'I can
take it ... " the fact that Brookings said that peeople would be disturbed
and all that baloney ... I want to know." So the question is , who are we not
being allowed to know? Why? Why keep it all secret?

J - The answer is - and that isin the form ... I'd like to do soemthing with
you , but we'll need a good 10 or 15 minutes because what I'm going to do
is say ... "Art Bell - the government has chosen you because of your vast
experience with th epublic and what you think they can handle and we
decided - that we are either going to release all this information or not -
but we are going to tell you everything we know and you decided - Yay or

A - Yeah!

J - and that this would be 'YOU' Art Bell - it will you YOU!

A - Yeah! I would think that I was being set up - John!

J - Really!!!

A - Yeah! Big time set up -

J - When we have 10 minutes of clear time - I have written the briefing you
are going to get from the government and then after that briefing - that
comes with slides and videos and of course you can't see them, but I'll talk
you through them and then after ou see them - I'll say - Art - Yay or Nay!!

A - while laughing - Art says - So you are going to give me a briefing, huh?

J- Yes!

A - Okay! We'll do that in a few minutes. - uh Apollo 17 - Apollo 17 - or will

that - can you give us a brief - I mean - was there some mission with
regard - was there something about Apollo 17 that wasn't fully public?

J - Yes! Apollo 17 landed in the Taurus Litrow area, (see above at the
beginning of this interview) which is extremely dangerous - um - there is
mountain peaks that go 8 to 10 thousand feet - a round area - but what
they were tasked to do on the second day was to go to Nansen and Nansen
is a large, obvioiusly constructed opening inside the south masif and they
wanted to take a look at it - so essentially its been covered up, but thereis
a website where you can read the whole thing, see the pictures of Nansen
- you get exact - what the astronauts said, which its very, very interesting
what they said - uh - what I'll do at the end of ths broadcast - I'll going to
e-mail you about 10 or 15 websites - that we are talking about - that you
can pass them on if you wwnat - and maybe you can look at Apollo 17 and
Project Redstar and all the rest of them.

A - All of this - uh - an Apollo mission - our space proram in genereal - How

much of this would have to be hidden? Now - of course its worth
mentioning - that we have not gone back to the moon ... not with men as
one would have expected by now ... or Mars or anything else ... its like ...
its kind of like ... I don't know - were' being kept home.

J - Right! We were told to stay away - we were given that edict by the
aliens - they said, "You will NOT come back here - and ... i'm not sure
exactly which particular Apollo series it was and we said, "Look! We've got
all these Saturn 5's - it will be hard to keep that from the public," and they
said "Okay! - one or two more and 'that's it!" Apollo 17 was the lsat one

and the NASA excuse was , "We don't have any more funding and we can't
do it and they have - still had 3 remaining Saturn 5's fueled and ready to
go and they were 18, 19, and 20.

A - The threat - that stopped us - what was the 'or else' part?

J - It was just '"or else" and you know - I don't know exactly what was said,
and I didn't talk to anybody who heard the threat - it was just enough
threat - that "Don't come back here - you're not welcome."

A - Yeah!


A - laughing - I've been set up before , but it doesn't hurt to listen -

laughing - you know - its kind of interesting - over the years of doing this
program, - so many years now - I've often wondered why I've been allowed
to do it at all (laughs) so let's say the government chose me - they were
going to use me as an outlet to release this information - lets just say they
did that and they took me to a briefing ...

John Lear's Disclosure Briefing

As presented on the 11/2/03 show:

Art Bell: Let's say the government chose me. They were going to use me as
an outlet to release this information. Let's just say they did that and they
took me to a briefing. Then what John?

John Lear: They whisk you to Washington, DC, you get limo-ed to this
building, beautiful building, you go up into this room. They say, 'Art, you're
the guy and if you give us the go ahead, we are gonna release everything
we know to the public. If you decide to go ahead, all major networks will
be provided with information on all aspects of the cover up and no type of
information will be withheld. Because of the deal for immunity for all
participants of the cover up provides that nothing, no artifacts, no piece of
information be withheld.'

So here's what happened, Art. We'll use some videos and stills. Our first
UFO recoveries were in the late '30s. We made a couple in the beginning of
the '40s and then came Roswell, which the public found out about. We got
2 live aliens from Roswell. One died shortly there after and one lived till
1956. And we found out so far there are 18 different alien species that we
know about monitoring Earth. Some are good and some are hostile, most
are indifferent. We found out that we are the experimental product, if you

will, of an alien race who we never met and we don't know who they are.
All we know is that the Greys are cybernetic organisms, glorified robots if
you will, who work here at the behest of their employers monitoring us
through abductions. We were never able to find out what the experiment is
all about except that we have been externally corrected about 65 times.
And they, the aliens, refer to us as "Containers." There's been speculation
that the souls our bodies contain is the reason for the experiments. But
nothing's been proven or determined.

Since 1938 we've lost over 200 aircraft due to UFO hostilities and
thousands of soldiers in all kinds of different actions with aliens. Since
that time several hundred thousand civilians have disappeared with no
trace. Several thousand of those were eliminated by us because of their
chance encounters with the aliens which we could ill afford to have

A slightly more frightening phenomena known as "human mutilations"

have occurred on a regular basis and are similar to "cattle mutilations". In
that the human or humans are taken from the street, so to speak, and
returned to the same area about 45 minutes to an hour later with their
rectums cored out, their genitals removed, eyes removed from their
sockets, and completely drained of blood. In all cases it appeared that the
mutilation procedures occurred while the persons were still alive and
conscious. One of our scientists speculates that apparently the human
specimens had to be alive for the samples to be worth anything.
Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least
10% of the population.

When we were first made aware this we protested to the little grey being
we had held in captivity at the YY-2 facility in Los Alamos, but a deal was
struck that in exchange for advanced technology from the aliens we would
allow them to abduct a very small number of persons and we would
periodically be given a list of those persons abducted. We got something
less than the technology we bargained for and found the abductions
exceeded by a million fold than what we had naively agreed to.

In 1954, President Eisenhower met with a representative of another alien

species at Muroc Test Center, which is now called Edwards Airforce Base.
This alien suggested that they could help us get rid of the Greys but
Eisenhower turned down their offer because they offered no technology.

At this point it became apparent to all involved that there was no such
thing as a God, at least how the public perceives God. Certainly some form
of computer recorder stores information and an occasional miracle is

displayed by the aliens to influence a religious event. This so unnerved
Eisenhower that he had "In God We Trust" put on paper money and coins
and put in the Pledge of Allegiance to reaffirm the public belief in God.
Shortly after this it was determined in meetings between the US and the
Russians that the situation was serious enough that a cold war should be
manufactured as a ruse to divert attention of the public away from UFOs
towards some other scary threat like the H-bomb. It was also decided to
keep the ruse secret from any elected or appointed officials within both
the US and Russian governments as it took so long to vet these officials
and the ruse was easier to manage if the top people didn't know about it.

In the late 1950's NASA was formed to compartmentalize, containerize,

and sanitize information from all space platforms and vehicles. We sold
NASA to the public claiming that all information would belong to them but
they got very little and even that was highly sanitized.

Our first efforts were to keep the public from learning about Venus. A very
similar planet to Earth and it's population is very similar to us just
technologically advanced. We have learned a lot from them starting with
the Russian Venera 1 and US Mariner 2, we made Venus look like a lead
melting, volcanic surface, spewing sulfuric acid into a pressurized
atmosphere 90 times that of Earth. And as often the case we over did it
and we wondered why nobody asked how a parachute survived a descent
into 800-degree air. We set up operations in Pine Gap, Australia to
preclude any prying eyes figuring out what we were up to. We regularly
eliminated through extreme prejudice anybody who was part of the
operation and made the least little tiny threat about disclosure or
dissatisfaction with the operation. Any space mission that included
Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Mariner, Voyager, Clementine, and all the rest. All
data initially came transmitted to Pine Gap then it was relayed to JPL or
wherever after sanitizing. We had a little trouble with amateur radio
operators but we figured out how they could intercept these signals but
we managed to deal with that.

When the Russian threat began to fade we introduced Vietnam which kept
the public occupied for over ten years. The cover up and personnel to run
the operation began to get bigger and bigger and required more and more
money. We were forced to inflate the defense budget, which soon not
enough. Then we got into the drug business which was still not enough.
We were the ones that looted the savings and loan industry and Wall
Street to boot. It is so out of control now most people want immunity and
want out. But there is so much secrecy and so many double and triple
blinds in place that it's unlikely that this thing can ever be dismantled. And
even if you give us the go ahead to spill the beans to the public it's

unlikely they will get anything more than "yes, we recovered a flying
saucer and yes, there was an occupant" but that's all we're gonna tell ya.

So go ahead and roll the tape for Mr. Bell. What you see here are what
human mutilations look like. That one was a male about 27 years old. That
one is film of dead aliens being pulled from the wreckage of a craft that
crashed in Olancha, California in the '50s. That craft you see over there
was over 250ft. in diameter and had to be buried on the spot. That site is
in Utah near Dugway Proving Grounds. The object you're looking at now is
the as the Kecksburg Acorn which was brought to Wright Patterson in the
middle '60s. There's Frank Drake trying to force information out of a being
tied down to a stretcher. He was supposedly from Tao Ceti.

These pictures you're looking at now are structures on the Moon. That's
the tower in Sinus Medii and it's over seven miles tall. And that thing over
there is what we call the Colossus of Oguram(sp) in Mare Crisium. We don't
know what it does but the machine itself is bigger than Brooklyn, New
York. Now those are videos of the domes covering the craters. As you can
see, some are in a very advanced state of decay.
Interview with Art Bell, Hoagland/Ken Johnosn

These are 5 second slides of the 18 different alien species we are looking
at. That one there is the most gruesome looking. The guards at one facility
are carefully indoctrinated over several months being shown pictures
similar to but not exactly like the alien. Only when he'd been acclimatized,
so to speak, of the horrible looking beings are they allowed to stand in
security positions. Before these acclimatizations were done, we had two
guards die of a heart attack as the aliens came down the hallway

And this last clip is of the Kennedy assassination. You've heard of the
second gunman theory? Well, this is the second camera that recorded
exactly what happened and we had 4 gunmen. And the bottom line was
that Kennedy had to go. He insisted on releasing what little alien
information we had told him about and he was trying to withdraw troops
from Vietnam which we were using as a diversion for the public. After
Kennedy we never told any President anything. Nixon knew because he
was briefed as VP in 1952. That's how we knew where to take Jackie
Gleason to Homestead Air Force Base to see the alien bodies we had in
storage there.

And that's about it. What say you Art Bell? Do we brief the public? Yay or

A - I guess ... my first response would be - having heard even one quarter
of that information - if I really heard it from a legitimate government
source ... that I was about to be killed ... I would assume I would be in
mortal danger ... I mean - its just - uh - any portion of that information
would get a person killed if they knew it - much less - I - uh - its just
ludicrous John, I would never be put in such a sitatuion. I would never be
at such a briefing, because such a briefing is never, never and will never
be made - EVER!

J - Well, art! Here's the deal - ... is people want to know - the say, "I can
take it - tell me." I mean - the public can take it - Well - do you want to
release it or not?

A - Now wait a minute - are you saying ... Well - well -they can't - I agree ...

J - You have been given this briefing... the government has decided ...
"Look , We're tired of covering this thing up..."

A - This assumes that I really believe that they would release it as opposed
to killing me! Right?

J - They aren't going to kill you if they give you this briefing - they would
just say - "Here it is."

A - No! Once I said, "No!" "Yes or no" - Well I suppose, "No" Once I said it,
then I'd have to be killed, wouldn't I?

J - No! No!

A - Well - other people have been killed because that was part of your
briefing. +++

J - Yeah! But - well that was just up to 1972 - up until 1972, there was 572
people eliminated from the program because they disagreed wtih the way
it was going, but after 1972, they don't kill them anymore. What they do -
I don't know! I have my suspicions - of what they do!

A - Why do you imagine ...

J - Don't bring that into the argument ...

A - Why do you imagine they let people like you on radio shows like this
and saying these things?

J - The government ... the coverup is so firmly in place now that its not a
threat to them.

A - It doesn't matter!

J - uh uh! I mean ... how many people are we talking ? It doesn't matter.
People think its interesting and then they go on with their business.

A - All right!

J - My point is, if you knew the whole story, you wouldn't be pushing for

A - No! I wouldn't - of course I wound not! I believe that Brookings was

accurate - In fact I believe even more than that . I spent all these years -
getting e-mails and talking to people in the Bible belt - John! I've talked to
a lot of them. I know how the fundamentalists feel... and it would turn us

J - I agree with you. Last night I talked to the guy who is heading up the
Disclosure Project in Washington, D.C. I read him the exact same thing I
read to you ... and he said, "Yeah! Go for it! Let's do it! We have a right to
know" ... and I'm wondering "How can you possibly think like that?"

A - Um! How can he? I've asked thes ame questions.. really I have, and ou
get a wonderful speech in return - that also makes sense - you know. You
get the patriotic angle - you get the ... you know ... we're a part of all
that's happening - about these profound issues - they 'so' profound ... we
really have a right to know and the argument 'sounds good' - it really
sounds good. I also know what would happen if this information got out.

J - You're 100% right. And that's how I believe. And they bring up the
argument, "Well! I'm tired of the government lying to us - and that's what
a government does - they lie to us. They lie to us continually - but in this
particular issue - they are correct!

Here are the web links that John Lear provided in support of his data: