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Posted by abdalla on 12 February, 2009 - 2:32 am
hi all
I am going to work in old plant (John Brown) fram5 it was Mk II upgraded to Mk vi. This
plant is not tied with network and it work at the emergency only in summer.
But what I heared they found problem when one unit in droop system assume it is 8 MW
the load is one chiller when they need to put the second chiller in service the first chiller
take trip by under voltage. But if there is two unit GT in service each one 4 MW or one
unit in isochronuse this phenomena did not happened. So what is the reason?
Second thing is: isochronous=constant frequency by automatically adjusting output
power. Droop= frequency is automatically adjusted but when power increase the
frequency decrease a bit. My question is how this happen logically? If you have
document explain in details the difference I will be thanks.
Another thing, in the isochronous mode is the load increased the MW increasing with
regardless the set point or it is controlled by the turbine set point even the load increased?
best regards.
Reply to this post...
Posted by CSA on 12 February, 2009 - 2:36 pm
You seem to be saying that these two units do not synchronize to any larger grid
('network') and are only operated occasionally. Is that correct?
If this is true, then I will tell you that it *is* possible to operate a turbine in droop speed
control mode *and* manually maintain frequency *IF* (note that 'if' is in capital letters!)
the load is fairly stable. In this situation, it is the operator's responsibility to adjust the
turbine output to respond to any changes in load which will tend to change the frequency.
However, if there is a large change in load (8 MW is a pretty big load change even if it
doesn't all come on the 'network' instantaneously) it's probably pretty difficult for a
person to manually change the load quickly enough to maintain the frequency very well.
But, you said that when one unit was being operated in droop mode at 8MW and another
8MW was added to the 'network' that the first 8MW load tripped because of
The voltage of a generator is also affected by its speed, which is a function of frequency.
Also, some exciter regulators don't respond to terminal voltage changes very quickly and
we don't know what kind of exciter regulator you have (static, rotating, etc.) or how it's
tuned. Also, we don't know very much about the power system and its protective relay

One shouldn't believe everything one hears. you say you "heard" this. And the frequency would be stable. neither unit has to be in isochronous mode." Now. A lot of things that allegedly happen in a power plant during an event like this are just. it would maintain 4 MW regardless of any frequency change. If the droop unit were loaded to 4MW with Pre-Selected Load Control enabled and active. there's little we can say about that "rumor. Let's say the load on the 'network' for one unit operating in isoch mode and one unit . the output of the droop unit would be unstable. but both units cannot be in isochronous mode (unless there is some kind of isochronous load sharing for the two units which is unusual but not unheard of). Now.scheme to really speculate on that aspect. So. let's say the 'network' load for these two units was 16 MW. If the droop unit were loaded to 4 MW and left there (without Pre-Selected Load Control enabled). it would maintain 4 MW as long as the frequency was stable.' The isoch unit would drop its output to 0 MW but couldn't decrease it any further. The ideal situation would be to have one unit in isochronous speed control and one unit in droop speed control. The droop unit would continue to run at 4 MW (we're presuming no is touching the controls of the droop unit). then the isoch unit would increase it's output to 12 MW (presuming that the unit was capable of putting out 12 MW!) and the droop unit would stay at 4 MW (whether it was in Part Load or Pre-Selected Load Control). what someone thought happened *or* some events are mistakenly linked to others. if the two units were synchronized to each other and supplying a load independent of a grid. and the isoch unit was being operated at 4 MW and the droop unit was being operated at 12 MW. If the isoch unit were at 4 MW and the droop unit was at 4 MW and an additional 8 MW of load "suddenly" came on the system. if the load were fairly stable and the operators were fairly attentive and responsive. particularly in a power plant. The isochronous unit would respond to load changes to maintain frequency. And 8 MW of load suddenly dropped off the 'network. well. It would be possible for two units in this condition to both be operated in droop speed control and to be able to control frequency. until it reached exhaust temperature control (Base Load). Operating data and alarm logs usually clear up a lot of "eye-witness hearsay". The isoch unit would continue to increase its output if more load were added to the 'network'. and the droop output would drop to 8 MW (because that's all the load there is!). *BUT* the 'network' frequency would increase above nominal until an attentive and responsive operator reduced the fuel being admitted to the droop unit to make the frequency come down to nominal. Lastly. If the frequency was unstable.

the amount being produced has to be equal to the load to maintain the frequency..) Or. As the load on the droop unit were reduced. if the 'network' load is 8 MW. what will happen is that the frequency of the 'network' will increase. not load. And the frequency would remain stable. the load on the isoch unit would increase by an equal amount. if the load on the droop unit were reduced by 2 MW the load on the isoch unit would increase by 2 MW. . So. Now let's say that someone wanted to increase the load on the isoch unit. And the frequency would remain stable. When a unit is being operated in isoch mode. (Usually. but the load (which is the lights and pumps and motors and computers connected to the 'network') doesn't change. it's "reference" is frequency. If the amount being produced doesn't equal the amount of lights and motors and computers. But. if the droop unit load was increased by 2 MW. Reply to this post.' To maintain the frequency of the 'network'. the isoch load would decrease by 2 MW. to 14 MW. The thing to remember is: The load of a 'network' is the aggregate sum of all of the lights and motors and computers connected to the 'network. the *only* way to do this is to reduce the load on the droop unit. if someone wanted to increase the load on the droop unit. and the droop unit was operating at 4 MW and the isoch unit was operating at 12 MW. even if the generators are capable of 20 MW each. one is just changing the amount of power being produced by each generator and its prime mover. In this example. If an operator tries to raise load on the isoch unit by clicking on RAISE SPD/LOAD. the combined output of the two generators (whether they are in droop or isoch or some combination of the two) can only be equal to 8 W if the frequency is to remain at the setpoint and stable. the effect would be that as the droop unit were loaded the isoch unit would unload by an equal amount..operating in droop was 16 MW. the turbine control would get mighty confused if it were told to maintain a certain load while in isoch mode. Pre-Selected Load Control is disabled when isoch speed control is active. So. Even if the prime movers of the generators are capable of producing more power. but even if it weren't. the amount of power being produced by the generators connected to the 'network' cannot be greater or less than the sum of all the lights and motors and computers. the frequency will drop.