on interpretation: does Yahweh care if His holy texts are misunderstood?

- Page 2 #11 05-06-2009, 11:34 AM reluctantchristian

Martini: Quote: should i be paying close attention to anything on the hand-out in relation to my post and raison d'tre? Just something to glance at. I'll have to go back and re-read your second link in order to fully remember WHY I posted it. Short term memory loss. reluctantchristian #12 06-03-2009, 07:34 PM Goth_Slut Quote: Originally Posted by Pikemann Urge A side-issue: morals change as society changes. So interpretation and emphasis on scripture depends on the priorities of society. But one could just defend against your claim: free will! Isn't that swell! John Loftus made an interesting point about Satan: you'd have to be dumber than a "box of rocks" to rebel against infinite power and infinite love - free will or no free will. Seriously, if you knew you were going to lose you wouldn't bother. Can any such creature as Satan exist? Surely not. I would argue otherwise. I have often chosen the path of self destruction if I thought it would hurt someone else. My assumptions have often been wrong, but that hasn't stopped me from doing it. I have a hard time accepting outside influence. Criticism or control, I don't deal well with either. It's a personal flaw on some levels, but it's also something I take a perverse element of pride from as well. Suicide over servitude. Satan is a vital element of the human psyche personified. The will to will, so to speak.

To martini: Isn't it a fine line between misinterpreting and disobeying? Would a biblical adherent merely argue that they were not misinterpreting, but disobeying? Twisting the scripture for sinful purposes perhaps? The law is written on the heart of every man, or some such nonsense I think. Can't remember the verse. Anyways, I took that to mean that inherently, we each understand the law to a point. At least well enough that we should be capable of recognizing actions inconsistent with biblical law. But then I'm probably misinterpreting. :-(

Love, Goth_Slut __________________ Pikemann Urge Goth, I guess we all have the potential to execute a scorched earth policy. But keep in mind that Satan is supposed to know of a perfect, invulnerable, impeachable, omniscient God. There is no 'maybe' or 'one in a million chance' with God. __________________ Pikemann Urge #14 06-04-2009, 07:37 AM Goth_Slut

Sometimes the most noble causes are lost ones. I always empathized with Satan more than any other biblical character. I have an ego. I hate being subordinate to anybody. I suppose that's why I consider cheating in a relationship to be a cardinal sin. Because it makes one feel so inadequate, and cast aside. Satan lived under a tyrant. Benevolent or not, a tyrant nonetheless. To live under the foot of another, is to deny oneself any semblance of freedom. Rebelling, to choose death over life, flaw over perfection, lies over truth, would be the only act of freedom he would ever know. Besides, he ended up getting Hell to himself, and isn't there supposed to be a war coming anyways?

Love, Goth_Slut __________________

#15

06-04-2009, 07:59 AM martini7B7

i would argue that there can be no benevolent tyrant. no leader whose method is "my way or the highway" can be loved in the manner that orthodox Xians believe. no benevolent supernatural overseer can issue the ultimate punishment for temporal infractions against it's arbitrarily chosen laws. as far as misinterpreting versus disobeying, that reasoning can be used against Xians right now. we can say that they, like their predecessors, can have no idea as to whether or not they are disobeying or misinterpreting their supposedly holy texts because their god never corrects them. hah! __________________

#16 Martini: Quote:

06-04-2009, 10:35 AM reluctantchristian

as far as misinterpreting versus disobeying, that reasoning can be used against Xians right now. we can say that they, like their predecessors, can have no idea as to whether or not they are disobeying or misinterpreting their supposedly holy texts because their god never corrects them The texts are often conflicting, but perhaps it's our place to try and find the balance and harmony within the conflict. Maybe there isn't a need for correction, but a need for balance on our parts. Just a thought. Goth: Quote: I always empathized with Satan more than any other biblical character. I have an ego. I hate being subordinate to anybody . How do you feel about people being subordinate to you? In the O.T., Satan had a job to do, but was still subordinate to God. He still had limits he couldn't breach. Quote: Satan lived under a tyrant. Benevolent or not, a tyrant nonetheless. To live under the foot of another, is to deny oneself any semblance of freedom. We are all subject to something. Time, disease, death, random awfull stuff happening. And we are subject to good things as well.

Quote: Rebelling, to choose death over life, flaw over perfection, lies over truth, would be the only act of freedom he would ever know. The ability to chose is the act of freedom. Living a lie is probably the worst thing anyone could do to themselves. It's just a different form of submission, in my opinion. Quote: Besides, he ended up getting Hell to himself, and isn't there supposed to be a war coming anyways? No, he has a cast of thousands ( some say millions ) to share hell with. Misery loves company and all of that. There's always a war somewhere.

#17

06-07-2009, 06:19 AM Goth_Slut Quote: Originally Posted by martini7B7 i would argue that there can be no benevolent tyrant. no leader whose method is "my way or the highway" can be loved in the manner that orthodox Xians believe. no benevolent supernatural overseer can issue the ultimate punishment for temporal infractions against it's arbitrarily chosen laws.

I would have to agree. Quote: as far as misinterpreting versus disobeying, that reasoning can be used against Xians right now. we can say that they, like their predecessors, can have no idea as to whether or not they are disobeying or misinterpreting their supposedly holy texts because their god never corrects them. hah! True. But there lies the ultimate point of it all, doesn't it?

RC: Quote: How do you feel about people being subordinate to you? In the O.T., Satan had a job to do, but was still subordinate to God. He still had limits he couldn't breach. Better to live as a lion for a day, than a lamb for a thousand years.

Quote: We are all subject to something. Time, disease, death, random awfull

stuff happening. And we are subject to good things as well. All of which we attempt to circumnavigate. It's why we look both ways before crossing the street. Total understanding, total control is the ultimate goal of any organism worthy of existence.

Quote: The ability to chose is the act of freedom. Living a lie is probably the worst thing anyone could do to themselves. It's just a different form of submission, in my opinion. I don't consider anything of what I said to be living a lie.

Quote: No, he has a cast of thousands ( some say millions ) to share hell with. Misery loves company and all of that. There's always a war somewhere. I meant he has it to himself, in that it's his now. He's the ruler of hell instead of a slave in heaven.

Love, Goth_Slut __________________

#18

06-09-2009, 11:46 AM martini7B7

Quote: Originally Posted by Goth_Slut True. But there lies the ultimate point of it all, doesn't it? and, thus, one of the many reasons i could never validate being a Xian. Quote: Originally Posted by reluctantchristian Martini: The texts are often conflicting, but perhaps it's our place to try and find the balance and harmony within the conflict. Maybe there isn't a need for correction, but a need for balance on our parts. Just a thought. nowhere is this method suggested in the texts. it is this "salvage what

you can" mentality that has kept Xianity alive over the mountains of evidence against it's veracity -- starting even in Judaism. i suggest we put it on the shelf with the other Canaanite religions and Greco-Roman mysteries. but then, you probably guessed that. __________________

#19 Quote:

07-08-2009, 05:00 AM Walter Muller QUOTE=Goth_Slut; I meant he has it to himself, in that it's his now. He's the ruler of hell instead of a slave in heaven.

Hi Goth, there is a saying that Satan convinced the world he do not exist, here is something worth considering; Satan have convinced the world that he is God, and this place we call earth can at times force us to think we are in hell. Walter.

#20

07-08-2009, 12:41 PM martini7B7

Quote: Originally Posted by Walter Muller Hi Goth, there is a saying that Satan convinced the world he do not exist, here is something worth considering; Satan have convinced the world that he is God, and this place we call earth can at times force us to think we are in hell. Walter. pardon my interruption but you have essentially crafted your own Cartesian Demon. your imagination is the limit as far as some presupposed supernatural creature in control of any of our senses. it is of no use to suggest such things because they are so self-contained and inherently un-refutable. __________________

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