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1

METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT WASHINGTON, D.C.

2

3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X

4 IN RE:

5 THE DEATH OF ROBERT WONE

Case No. 1-2747-06

6

_ - - - - - - - - - - - - - X

7

8

9

August 2, 2006

10

11

12

13

14

Following is the interview of DYLAN WARD as

15 conducted by Sgt. Daniel Wagner, Detective Norris, and 16 Detective Bryan Kasul.

17

·18 19

20 Requested By:

21 M. COLLEEN·COVELL

Assistant United States Attorney

22

23

24

25

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1

HALLR 03127/2010 4:22:07 Pili

,;

I

, .

1

Q.

I'm Sgt. Wagner, supervisor here, and this is

PRO C E E DIN G S

2

BY SERGEANT WAGNER:

3

Q.

How you doing?

4

A.

Hello.

5

6 Detective Norris. We're all in the squad working on this

7 matter. It's troubled.
8 A. What's that?
9 Q. Very troubled.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I have to be honest and fair with you, I don't 12 believe we're getting the truth here.

13

Everyone keeps telling me, that. I don't know why.

A.

14

Well, because'some -- one or more of you three

Q.

15 stabbed this guy.

16

A.

I don't believe that. I really can't believe that.

17 If it's one of the other guys, I would be completely shocked. 18 I don't have any reason to believe that they would have any

19 motive. Robert is just a friend, a casual friend.

20 Q. Well

21 A. They were just doing him a favor by letting him stay

22 there. There's no -- I don't know of any relationship other 23 than friendship between him and Joe or Victor, and I just know

24 him through Joe.

25

(indiscernible) Joe (indiscernible) relationship.'

Q.

-, .~ .

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1

3

I don't know that. I don't. I have no reason to

2 believe that. If it's true, then it's been a secret from me,

A.

3 and I'm completely shocked.

4

5

6

Q.

Well --

A.

I 9an't believe that.

Q.

This guy's perfectly straight and he's going to

7 leave his wife for the night and come over to you all's house?

8

9

A.

Yeah, because

Q.

Then he's not perfectly straight. That's not

10 something a straight guy would do.

12 Metro and he didn't want to go all the way back out to

11

A.

He was working late, he was probably taking the

13 Virginia.

15 to Virginia? Less time than it takes to get in a cab from

14

Q.

Do you know how long it takes to get from downtown

16 downtown to Swann Street. So that doesn't tell you --

19 Q. But I'm telling you, because that is what I do, I

20 question. And here's what I'm -- let me just say this.

21 Because eventually the truth is coming out. It's going to

22 come out either from you or from Joe or Victor. One of you is

17

18 fine.

A.

I never questioned it. I just figured, okay, that's

23 going to tell. If it isn't you, then you're going to go down.

24

25

A.

I don't know anything.

Q.

I don't care if there's some reason that it

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4

I "

.!

1 happened, or whatever like that, and you know maybe one of the 2 other guys did it and you're in on this.

,', I.:

3

4 know, they were in bed , too. I sincerely believe that someone

A.

I/m not in on anything. I was in bed. As far as I

6 that.

5 got into the house. I canlt imagine any reason they would do

7

8 Somebody sneaks in the housel comes upstairs, stabs the guy

Q.

Well, I meant the story is so preposterous.

9 three times, gets out'of the house and nobody sees him. And

10 not only do they not see him, he leaves no trace whatsoever of

11 having been there except for three gaping holes in the chest

12 and abdomen, thatts it.

13 A.
14 Q.
15 A.
16 between
17 Q.
18 A.
19 Q.
20 A. I don't know.

Nobody was in the backyard.

I have no information about any relationship

Well, what did you all talk about?

Down in the kitchen?

Um-hum.

All we talked about was -- Robert came int I offered

22

21 him a glass of water.

Q.

Nobody drank any wine?

23

A.

24 wine. He came and we had already cleaned up.

We had wine with dinner. Robert did not have any

25 Q. Okay.

'.\ .

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.';". 1 DETECTIVE NORRIS.
:~: 1
.. ..
2 (indiscernible)
3 MR. WARD. Nothing.
4 talked about our friend Lisa. What else? What else happened

14

Q.

How long have you been living at that house?

We talked about his wife. We

We talked priefly about his

5 job. Joe talked about the shower breaking. We talked about 6 it being so hot in his room. It was just chitchat. And then

7 Joe went outside for a second because he saw a spider or

8 something on the light. And we got -- you know, refilled

9 Joe's water and took Robert upstairs, showed him the bed. He

10 said he wanted to shower, we showed him the shower, and that's

11 when I went to bed. I went in my room, I was reading for like

12 five minutes or so, and then I took my sleeping pill and went

13 to bed.

DETECTIVE NORRIS.

What .conversation did you have

15 about his wife?

16

MR. WARD.

His wife had had hip surgery a few

17 months ago and we went to visit her, and I just asked how she

18 was doing. And then Joe asked about her new job, because she

19 has as new job, and he said that, you know, that it was okay,

20 that, you know, he didn't know if it was that she d i.dn+'t. get 21 along with her bosses or what, but it was just like -- t'hat ' s

22 all we talked about, was when she got paid and how she liked

23 her new job.

24 BY SERGEANT WAGNER:

25

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5

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1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

A.

Since April of last year. April of last year?

14 work on their (indiscernible) advertising campaigns and stuff.

15

16

17

18

Q.

A.

Um-hum.

Q.

And where did you live before that? (indiscernible)

A.

Q.

All three of you? Yeah.

A.

Q.

And whose house was that?

A.

Joe and Victor.

Q.

Joe and Victor? And what does Victor do?

A.

Victor is in marketing.

Q.

What does that mean?

A.

He works for the (indiscernible) campaign and helps

Q.

So who makes the money?

A.

Joe.

Q.

How much?

19 don't know what he makes. I've never asked him, he's never_

A.

I have no idea. I know he's an attorney, but I

20 told me.

21

22

Q.

How about you?

6

23 I'm consulting for nonprofits. And I make the least amount in

A.

I work in direct marketing consulting. Right now,

24 the house, I'm sure, 55.

25

-Q.

Fifty-five?

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:~-:~;~~i.:~\

" "::'r

1

A.

Yeah, so I ran down downstairs to let him in. And

A.

(Nods head) DETECTIVE NORRIS.

Do you normally check the door

2

3 when you get ready for bed?

4

MR. WARD.

If I'm the last one down there,

5 sometimes I'll check the door. But tonight, r didn't. I

6 mean, I was -- I had already kind of gone to bed and was just

7 reading in my room, and Robert came, and so I was -- you know,

8 I just went down to answer the door, because nobody was

9 answering it. I had already, you know, told Joe that I was

10 going to go to bed and that he would have to, you know, wait

11 for Robert. But no one was answering the doorbell, so I went

12 downstairs and got it. But I didn't notice the door being

13 unlocked.

·14 BY SERGEANT WAGNER:

15

Q.

Say that again. Nobody was answering the doorbell?

16 I missed that one. What was that?

17

A.

The doorbell rang. The doorbell rang?

18

Q.

19

A.

We knew that Robert was coming.

20

Q.

Okay.

21

A.

So --

22

Q.

Oh, so nobody was answering it, so you ran down and

23 answered it?

24

25 then Joe, when I opened the door, the door chimes, and I think

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7

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1 he must have heard the chime, and then he came downstairs .

..... ;.

A.

2

Q.

Okay. And then what happened?

And then we just talked, that' ,s all. And then we

3

4 went up to bed.
5 Q. Where were you when you guys were talking?
6 A. We were in the kitchen, just around that little
7 Q. Standing around?
8 A. Yeah, standing.
9 DETECTIVE NORRIS. About what time? Around what
10 time exactly?
11 MR. WARD. It must have been a little after 10;30 12 or so. Because I remember looking at my clock, when I was back 13 in bed and ready to go to bed at 11, and we didn't talk for

14 very long. So we probably talked for 10 or 12 minutes or

15 something and then went upstairs.

16 BY SERGEANT WAGNER:

17

Q.

NoW, when you guys made that bed up, were the sheets

18 already on it?

19 A; No. There's a pad that's on the bed. So you pull
20 out the bed, and then we had to get the sheets and put them on
21 the bed, you know.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. They're not, like, already on the bed.
24 Q. And who performed life saving attempts on
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8

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, • P",

1

I didn't ever see any life saving attempts. I saw

A.

.!~, .,'

2 Joe was sitting next to Robert, and Victor was on the phone

3 with 911. And that's all I saw. I never saw them, like,

4 trying to do any life saving.

5

Q.

Where were you when you first them?

I

6

A.

When I first saw them is when I came out the door of

7 my bedroom.

8

Q.

And why did you do that?

9

A.

I came out because I heard them screaming.

10

DETECTIVE NORRIS.

And you never saw anybody

11 applying a towel on the victim's chest?

12

MR. WARD.

I saw -- I didn't see Robert for very

13 long. I remember seeing him sort of lying down, face up. I

14 saw some blood, and I think that I did see some sort of -- it

15 just looked like a pad, but I couldn't -- I didn't get into

16 the room. I didn't get close enough to really see what it

17 was. But I think I remember seeing some sort of pad.

18

BY SERGEANT WAGNER:

19

Q.

Now, were his feet under the blanket or on top or --

I don't remember. I remember seeing

20

A.

I think they

21 were on top. Because I think he was all -- I think his T-

22 shirt was, like, pulled up and he had his shorts on. So his

23 legs must have been out of the covers.

24

Q.

Did you see the knife?

25

A.

No ," I never saw a "knife. I know that they said it

·.:l"

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9

HALLR 03/2712010 4:22:07 PIv

1 was a knife. I know that Joe said he touched the knife, he

, ..... ,

2 moved it. But I never saw it.
3 BY DETECTIVE NORRIS:
4 Q. Where was the blood at?
5 A. The blood was on his chest.
6 Q. Which side?
7 A. I didn't get into the room, but what I remember is
8 like two spots of blood, and then some blood that looked like 9 it had maybe dripped under the sheet or something.

10

Q.

What do you mean, under the sheet?

I mean it looked like there was blood around his

11

A.

12 body. I don't know. I didn't really see it that well, but I 13 do remember blood on him.

14

Was it a lot of blood or a little bit of blood?

Q.

15

A.

I didn't seem like a lot of blood. I mean, it

16 wasn't like all sorts of blood, it was sort of like spots of 17 blood that was --

18 Q. Was it dry?
19 A. I don't know (indiscernibl e)
20 Q. Was it wet?
21 A. I can't tell you. r mean, I assume it was --
22 Q. Why was you awake then?
23. A. I was - - I heard some sort of noise, r didn't know 24 what it was. I thought it might be a scream, but I was I

25 had just sort of fallen to sleep and I didn't get up. I

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HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 PI'v

1 thought, oh, maybe the guys are fighting or maybe it's

2 something in the alley. I wasn't sure, so I didn't get up.

7

MR. WARD.

I don't know, because Joe was in the

3 Because it didn't last long. And then I started hearing

4 people, like, running down the stairs and I heard Victor and 5 Joe yelling, and that's when I f i.na Ll y , like, roused and woke

6 up.

Q.

When.you say they were running down the stairs,

8 which set of stairs did you hear people running?

9

A.

It must have been the stairs from upstairs.

10

Q.

The third floor?

11

A.

Yeah.

12

Q.

You didn't hear anybody running down (indiscernible)

13

A.

No, I didn't hear anybody running downstairs. When

14 I was out of the room, none of us went downstairs. Because I 15 was worried and Victor was worried that there might be

16 somebody down there.

17

Q.

Who was worried?

. 18

A.

Victor and I were worried .

19

Q.

What about Joe?

20

A.

What's that?

SERGEANT WAGNER.

21

Joe wasn't?

22

23 room with Robert, and Victor was just kind of yelling on the

24 phone. And, like, the people were asking him, you know, have

25

you gone -- and he's like, no, I'm not going downstairs, I

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PFv

::- ...

1 don't know if someone's down there.

2

A.

I saw Joe was in'the room with Robert, sitting there

BY DETECTIVE NORRIS:

3

Q.

How long after you were -- because you say you was

4 awakened by some noise?

5

A.

um-hum.

6

Q.

Right?

7

A.

Um-hum.

8

Q.

How long were you up before you heard the noise?

9

(Sergeant Wagner left the room.)

10

MR. WARD.

I wasn't really up. I was falling

11 was like, you know, doze -- you know, or dazed, and I -- it

12 might have been like just a matter of a few minutes when I

13 really started hearing all of the commotion. So I don't think 14 it was very long between the time that the scream happened and 15 the commotion. But I didn't get up out of my bed because it

16 was such a short it wasn't like a blood curdling scream or

17 anything, it was just sort of a short, high-pitched sound, and

18 I didn't know what it was.

19 BY DETECTIVE NORRIS:

20

Q.

So when you got out of your bed, you saw Victor and

21 Joe in the bedroom with Robert?

22

23 telling Victor to get the ambulance, and Victor was on the

24 phone. So I don't know if Victor was in the room or just like

25 kind of blocking the doorway (indiscernible) but he -- you

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PI'v

.':-:-' ..

1 know, it was like I came out of my room and there was Victor,

:··:.·i. )

know -- I didn't know what to do, for one (indiscernible) and

2 and then inside the room was Joe.

3

Q.

So let me get this straight. So you was awakened

4 by -- describe the noise that woke you up.

5

A.

It was like a short, kind of high-pitched like

6 scream or laugh, or I don't know. It was just -- but it was a

7 short sound.

8

Q.

And after you heard that, what did you do next?

I didn't do anything. I just sort of like -- it was

9

A.

10 like I was asleep and I noticed the sound but it didn't really

11 wake me up that much. And then I really woke up when I kept

12 hearing noises.

13

Q.

And what kind of noise was it that you

14

A.

Because I heard, like, Victor and Joe, mostly Victor

15 kind of just, you know, screaming and, you know, talking to 16 people· very loudly on the phone.

17

Q.

And you heard that from inside your bedroom?

18

A.

Yeah.

19

Q.

What did you do then?

20

A.

Then I got up, and at first I was scared because I

21 didn't know what was going on, but I got my robe and then I 22 went outside and I saw what happened. Victor was on the

23 phone. I couldn't believe it and I just -- I couldn't believe

24

it, so I just kind of sat down on the couch and I was, you

25

.,,: .. .,. ...

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2

1 then just a few minutes later, the

Q.

What did you think -- at that point, what did you

...

3 think?

4

5

6

A.

I thought someone had come into the house.

Q.

Why?

I don't know. Maybe I just assumed that it was a

A.

7 burglar or somebody that had come into the house.

Q.

But you had no idea of any burglary at that point,

9 you had no idea of any type of robbery or burglary or anything 10 at that point, right?

8

11

12 think? I didn't know what to think. I have no reason to

A.

No. I just -- I was -- I mean, what would you

13 believe that Joe or Victor would have a robber -- there was

15

14 no one else in the house that I knew of, so --

Q.

But they were there holding the body, so why would

16 you think that?

17

A.

Because they're my good friends and I can't imagine

18 they would do that.

Q ••

Let's take the friendship out of it for a minute,

19

20 okay? Don't concentrate on that. Concentrate on the norm,

22

21 what would be the normal response, okay?

A.

No, I mean, really, my first thought was, oh, my

23 God, someone's broken into the house. Yes, we thought -- we

25

24 were worried that someone might still be in the house.

Q.

So you was worried that somebody might be in the

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Pfv

15

1

house, but you go and sit down on the couch?

A. Because I didn't want to go downstairs.

We were all

2

3 up there.

4

Q.

Well, what, what --

5

A.

Joe was helping Robert, Victor was on the phone. I

6 didn't want to go downstairs because I was scared someone was

7 down there.

8

Q.

You see, that don't make -- if I'm scared and I

9 think somebody is downstairs, I'm not sitting on the couch. I

10 might -- maybe I'm going to wait by the stairs to see if

11 anybody come up.

12

A.

I just had to sit down, I was in such a state of

13 shock. I didn't know what to do. I wasn't just sitting there

14 the whole time. I mean, I was getting up. But I wasn't
15 Q. Did you once look downstairs to see - -
16 A. No, I - -
17 Q. -- was anybody there?
18 A. I did not go down the stairs. I looked over the 19 banister. Because the banister, you can see through the

20 banister and down the stairs. But I did not go down and look

21 around the stairs for other people.

22

Q.

What did you say to Vic and Joe when you first saw

23 them?

24

A.

I just couldn't believe it. I" didn't know

25

(indiscernible) what to say.

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Pili

1

A.

8 I couldn't believe it was happening. I don't remember exactly

Q.

: '. ~

~ 0.' ..

2

A.

3

Q.

4

A.

5 going on?

6

Q.

7

9 what I said.

Why?

Because it's crazy.

You didn't say, what happened?

Yeah, I probably just was like, oh, my God, what's

Okay. What did you say?

I don't remember exactly what I said. I was just --

10 Q. Okay, you said you couldn't believe what was

11 happening. That sounds like something in progress.

No. No, there was nothing in progress that I know

12 A.
13 of.
14 Q.
15 happened?
16 A.
17 Q.
18 A. And you can't believe what's happening or what

What happened.

Okay.

19 and Joe was on the bed with Robert. I mean, it was happening

What was happening was that Victor was on the phone

21

Q.

20 because it was -- but, no, I can't believe it.

after you went and sat down

Okay, what did you do

22 on the couch, what did you do?

23

A.

I just sat there for like a minute, and then I got

25

Q.

24 up and just kind of stood there.

And then what?

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'.' ." ..... ;

1

2

3

A.

And then the people came.

4 had the cot, whatever, and then they told us to go downstairs

Q.

Who?

A.

The fire people came, and they came upstairs. They

5 and stay on the couch. So as I was going downstairs, the 6 first thing, you know, I looked around, because -- and I

7 noticed that the door, the back door to the kitchen was

17

9 come in.

8 unlocked. So I immediately thought, oh, my gosh, somebody did

10

Q.

You saw the door unlocked, or did you see -- when

11 you (indiscernible) unlocked or was is it open?

A.

I couldn't tell if it was open or not. It was

12

13 unlocked, because the latch, if it's vertical, means that the

15

14 dead bolt is unlocked, and it's only a dead bolt there.

Q.

So when you went upstairs, was it like that, when

17

16 you went upstairs to go to bed?

A.

I don't know. I mean, it could have. been like that.

19

18 I don't know. I didn't check it on my way to bed.

Q.

Do you normally check it before you go to bed?

20

21

22

A.

I don't --

Q.

( indiscernible)

23 it. Or if I come behind it, I'll lock it. But Joe was the

A.

If I see it unlocked and I notice it, yes, I'll lock

24 last person out there tonight, and sometimes he's careless, so

25 maybe he didn't lock it. I mean, it's completely possible

.. ;.::,,:.-,

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, ~'. "

18

1 that it was left unlocked.

2

A.

Q.

What else happened?

3

A.

The police came, they asked us to sit on the couch,

4 we sat on the couch. We hardly talked, but, you know, I was

5 saying that I was worried that someone had come in through the

6 back and must have crawled over the fence and were they

7 looking for, like, footprints. And Joe was just saying he

8 couldn't believe it, it didn't make sense. And Joe was

9 worried about Cathy. He wanted to call Cathy to tell her what 10 had happened. He kept asking people, you know, do they have a

11 status, can you tell me what happened. I was worried about

12 our roommate who lives downstairs, because she wasn't there,

13 and I was worried that maybe she would come home and find, you

14 know, policemen there and get scared.

15

Q.

(indiscernible)

16

A.

So that's what happened. And then they, you know,

17 they wanted Joe to put some clothes on, so I went up and I got 18 his robe. Because he was -- I don't know what he was wearing 19 (indiscernible)

20

Q.

Did you see any blood on Joe?

21

A.

I don't know. I never got, like, close enough to

22 Joe to notice blood.

23

Q.

Did Joe go in the bathroom or anything?

I don't know. Not that I saw. I didn't see him go

24

25 in the bathroom.

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1

2

3

4

Joe ever tell you about, anything about the knife?

Q.

A.

He said that he moved it.

Q.

Moved it from where?

A.

I don't know. He didn't say where he moved it from,

6

5 he just said that he moved it.

Q.

What else did he tell you?

7

8 action. We weren't really talking to each other a lot. It

A.

He didn't tell me anything else. I mean, it was all

9 wasn't until we sat down on the couches when everybody was

11

10 there that we started thinking about what happened.

12

13

14

15

16

Q. Did Joe ever have any arguments with Rob?
A. No, not that r know of.
Q. Did you?
A. No. r hardly know the guy.
Q. You didn't?
A. I mean, we've seen him, he's gone to a fund-raising 17 dinner with us, he's been at our house for breakfast. When

18 Cathy broke her hips -- or had them replaced, we took, you

19 know, videos to their house and stuff. I mean, that's all.

20 We know them kind of casually. He's Joe's, you know, friend

22

21 from college.

Q.

How would you rate Joe and -- how would you describe

23 Joe's relationship with Rob?

24

25

A.

I would describe it as just an old college friend

and somebody that is a friend because he went to college with

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19

HAlLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Ptv

1 him. You know, that's all. Now, you know, Robert was giving

5

Q.

But that was -- sounded like a couple people. That

2 Joe -- you know, trying to work with Joe on some issues that 3 he has at work. So that's the only, like, new thing in their

4 relationship that I

Q.

Who was working, who was working with who?

6

A.

Robert works for Radio Free Asia.

7

Q.

Okay.

8

A.

And he was asking Joe, who's a lawyer, some

9 questions that concerned his job, like about their trademark 10 or -- I'm not sure exactly. But I know that Robert was asking 11 Joe these things just recently. So that's it. And then Joe,

12 you know, told me a couple days ago that Robert was going to 13 come late tonight because he was going to meet the people that

14 work on the nightshift, because he works the dayshift, and he 15 wanted to meet people on the nightshift and (indiscernible)

16

Q.

When did he tell you that?

17

A.

I don't know exactly. It was probably -- it was, I

18 think it was Monday, but it might have been Tuesday. I just

19 don't remember.

20

Q.

So after you heard this rapping noise, or whatever,

21 and it woke you up, did you hear anybody (indiscernible)

22

A.

Not right away, but I heard something, you know,

23 like I said, probably a couple minutes later, and that's when

24 I really woke up.

25

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20

HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PI\!

1 could have been Joe and Victor, I mean, right?

,'.;

Q.

And you said it came from upstairs and was coming

2

A.

Yeah.

3

4 downstairs, right?

5 A. Yes.
6 Q. SO most likely, that was probably Joe or Victor.
7 A. That's what I assume.
8 Q. SO where is this guy at?
9 A. I don't know. I have no idea.
10 Q. We've talked to a couple of folks, a couple of 11 neighbors, and (indiscernible) and they told us they didn't

12 see anybody climbing that fence coming into the yard, and they 13 didn't see anybody climbing that fence leaving the yard. So

14 we've got a problem.

15

A.

No, I know.

16

Q.

What do you think the problem is?

17

A.

Well, if there's not a robber, then there must have

18 been someone in the house that did it. So is it one of the

19 three of us, was it a robber? I don't know. But I can't

20 believe that it was Joe or Victor, and I know I didn't do it,

21 so it just -- it seems completely illogical to me. It doesn't

22 make sense.

23

Q.

Did you see Joe at all when you were asleep?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

When you woke up?

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HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 PIv

1

No. When I woke up, I went out, I went out of the

A.

2 room and I saw Victor on the phone and passed him.

3

Q.

When you woke up? When you heard the first noise?

4

A.

No. No.

(indiscernible) because I was in bed, I

5 was, like, asleep. I didn't --

Q.

Okay, did you see Vic?

6 7

A.

No.

8

Q.

So how do you know that it wasn't them two, one of

9 them two?

10

A.

Of course I don't know 100 percent, because I didn't

11 see it happen.

12

Q.

There we go.

13

A.

But I'm just telling you, I can't believe it. I

14 mean, if it's true, it's true, but I can't -- I just -- I

15 can't believe it.

16

Q.

I understand. I understand (indiscernible) I

17 understand. You know, I'm just going to throw this out at

18 you, and I'm not accusing you of anything, okay? You know

19 that if one of you all did do it, eventually some

20 (indiscernible) and somebody going to start feeling

21 (indiscernible) the one thing that I don't want to see

22 happen -- and if one of you all did do it, and say you didn't 23 do it, the one thing that I don't want to happen is see you go

24 down to accessory to murder because you want to try to protect

25 your friend.

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22

HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PI'v

-:.,

1

A.

"I assume because if he's asleep, and he sleeps in

A.

I understand that, and I appreciate it. But I don't

2 have any reason to believe that they did it, and I don't 3 I'm not hiding anything. So I don't -- I mean, everybody

4 keeps saying this and sort of threatening it, but I feel like

5 I don't know what to say. I mean, I'm telling you everything

6 that I remember. And I just don't have" any -- there's no, 7 like, sneaking suspicions in my head about motives or --

8

Q.

Right. Right. Right. And you wouldn't know too

9 much because you were asleep?

10

A.

Right.

11

Q.

So by the time you got up, Vic and Joe was already

12 in the room?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

So you wouldn't have seen much anyway, right?

15

A.

No. I didn't see any -- the only thing I saw was

16 Robert on the bed, Joe sitting there next to him, and Victor

17 on the phone.

18

Q.

So does Joe normally walk around the house without

19 his bathrobe?

20

A.

He doesn't normally walk around the house in his

21 underwear, no.

22

Q.

So why is he walking around in his underwear?

23

24

his underwear, then when it all happened, he rushed downstairs

25

and" he just never got his robe on.

.,_..:.1

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Pfv

1

Why not take time just to put your robe on? Because

Q.

2 you don't know what's going on. You don't know if -- I mean,

3 you know, like you woke up, you woke up and put your robe on,

4 right?

5

A.

Yes. But only because I didn't know what was going

6 on.

7

Q.

Exactly.

8

A.

I didn't know if there were other people in the

9 house.

10

Q.

Exactly. That's why you put your robe on. You see

11 where I'm going?

12

A.

Yeah. But--

13

Q.

So wouldn't you -- don't try to make excuses for

14 anybody, okay? I told you --

15

A.

Okay.

16

Q.

the norm. Okay? So don't try to make excuses

17 for anybody. It's normal for Joe to put his robe on, right?
18 A. No, not necessarily. I mean - -
19 Q. You just said when he comes out
20 A. No, I'm saying he doesn't usually walk
21 Q. (indiscernible)
22 A. - - around the house in his underwear.
23 Q. Right. Exactly. Right.
24 A. But that doesn't mean he walks around the house in
25 his robe. He's usually clothed. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.

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24

HALLR 03/27120104:22:07 Prv

25

1

Q.

Right. So when he's not clothed -- well, let me ask

2 you this: Have you ever seen him walk around the house in his

3 underwear?

4

A.

Yeah, if -- like, we've had flooding before down in

5 the basement.

6

Q.

Okay, other than flooding, other than anything else

7 that would cause him (indiscernible)

8 A. (indiscernible)

9 Q. have you ever seen him walk around without his

10 underwear I mean, without his robe?

11

A.

He usually walks around in his clothes. I mean,

12 yes, he'll walk around in his underwear sometimes

13

Q.

When you saw him --

14

A.

-- but it's not like normal.

15

Q.

Okay. But when you saw him in the room with his

16 underwear on, how did you feel?

17

A.

I just felt like he ran downstairs, he hopped out of

18 bed and ran downstairs and didn't take any time to put his

19 robe on. And then he was sitting there with Robert the whole

20 time. So I didn't think anything of it, because I know that

21 he sleeps in his underwear. So if something happened and he

22 had to react suddenly, he'd be in his underwear.

23

Q.

Who called 911?

24

A.

Victor. As far as I know. I mean, Victor was on

25 the phone (indiscernible)

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HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 Pfv

:."!:::.: .. 1
',.,;::' ,
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 Q. He called? Was he on the phone when you came out?

A. Yes, I believe so.

Q. And you would say your room is close, closer to the stairs than the room that Rob was sleeping in, right?

A. Oh, yeah, my room is right, you know

Q. Yeah, yeah.

A. -- at the top of the stairs.

Q. About how many feet?

A. I don't know, 4 feet maybe,S feet.

And how many feet is it from your room

I mean,

Q.

11 from the top of the stairs to the room that Rob was in?

12

13

14

A.

Maybe 16 feet, something like that.

So if this burglar -- let's· say there was a burglar. Yeah, I know. I thought of that. I'm like, why

Q.

A.

15 didn't they open my door first?

16

17

Q.

Right.

18 reading, so my light faces the alleyway, and, you know, I

A.

I have no idea. I mean, all I know is that I was

26

19 turned that off around 11:00. So I don't know, maybe somebody 20 knew people were in there.

21

22

23

Q.

Exactly.

A.

I have no idea.

Q.

So you think they knew you was in there, they saw

24 you turn the light out, right? So why come in if they knew

25

you were there?

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PI\I

j',

., i .'

1

Q.

Right. But from the time that you heard the first

A.

I don't know. It's very strange. I mean, I agree,

2 I think it's really weird that anyone would come in if they

3 know everybody's home. But I don't know. Now, I don't know, 4 I'm just saying (indiscernible)

5

Q.

Right. I understand. But you don't find it strange

6 that you wake up to some type of noise, and the noise that you

7 hear is not the type of noise that would cause you to get 8 completely up, to wake completely up, right?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

But when you hear them running down the stairs,

11 that's enough to wake you up?

12

A.

Urn-hum. Because what I heard the first time was

13 just kind of short. It just didn't jar me that much out of

14 sleep. And when -- then I heard, like, prolonged commotion,

15 and that's what woke me up. Like, that's what got me out of 16 be. I knew something was happening in the house.

17

Q.

And you can't -- I mean, if you're still partially

18 asleep, you wouldn't know how long it was from the first time

19 you heard that noise to the time that you heard --

20

A.

No, I wouldn't know exactly.

21

Q.

-- Rob and them running down, right?

22

A.

No, all I can -- I can o~ly just sort of imagine

23 what it was. I can't tell you for sure.

24

2S noise that you was awakeneq by, I mean, you wouldn't know how

; .

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27

HALLR 03/27120104:22:07 PIV

.::'·l,".\

! ... .'

1 much time had gone by when you heard what appeared to be Joe 2 and Vic going down the stairs, right? You wouldn't --

3

4

A.

No, I can just guess.

28

5 A. Probably like two or three minutes, that would be my

Q.

Right. What would be your guess?

6 guess. But like I say, I mean (indiscernible)

7 Q. It could be longer, it could be less?

8

A.

Yeah, it could be longer, it could be less. But

9 that's just sort of my gut feeling.

Q.

So you would think that if you heard -- if you was

10

11 able to hear them running down the stairs, you would think

12 that you would be able to hear somebody running down to the

14

13 first level, right?

A.

I would think if somebody was running fast and --

15

16

17

Q.

Yeah, right.

A.

-- making noise, I would hear them.

18 running down -- because those are hardwood floors. So

Q.

Right, you would hear them, you would hear them

20

19 somebody running down some hardwood floors, you would hear it.

21

A.

I think I would, yeah.

Q.

You would think you would hear it. Because you

22 heard this other noise, right?

A.

Yeah.

23

24

Q.

Now, why is it that you didn't hear that noise but

25 you were able to hear the other noise of the guys coming down

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HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 Pili

2

Q.

A.

1 the other steps?

I don' t know.

3

4 Could it be?

5 A.
6 Q.
7 A.
8 Q.
9 A.
10 anybody.
11 Q.
12 A.
13 Q.
14 A.
15 Q.
16 A.
17 Q. Could that be that maybe nobody ran down the stairs?

It's possible. But--

It's possible.

I mean, yeah, I guess it's possible.

It's possible.

I didn't hear it, so I -- you know, and I didn't see

I didn't get up.

Right, because you didn't even seen Joe or Vic.

No, I didn't go out of my room.

Right.

I was still in bed.

Right.

I was asleep.

18

Vic could have did it.

Right. So therefore, if you don't know, then Joe or

19 A. No, I I I don't know - - I don't believe they did, but
20 I don't know for certain.
21 Q. Right. Did you ever go out back?
22 A. No. You mean out back past the kitchen?
23 Q. Yeah. Once you - - you said you saw the door.
24 A. Yeah, I saw the door.
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1

2

A. I was leaning over the stairs -- when people were

3 looked around the stairs and I could see that that back door

starting to come in, they were telling us to go downstairs.

5

4 was unlocked and I --

Q.

But it was closed, right?

6

7 ajar. I couldn't tell. Because, you know, there's like a

A.

I couldn't tell if it was closed or just slightly

8 shadow. But I could see that the lock was vertical, and that

10

9 means that it's unlocked.

Q.

You've got a computer downstairs, you've got a TV

11 downstairs, you've got some nice knives downstairs, you've

12 got

13

14

15

16

A.

No, the TV and the computer are on the second floor.

Q.

(indiscernible) there's a computer bag down there.

A.

Oh, there's a computer bag there because --

Q.

Was there a computer in that bag? Because it was

17 ~ight there leaning up against the couch in the dining room.

A.

Probably Victor's computer, then.

18

19

Q.

Right. So you've got a computer right there, you've

20 got the television in the kitchen, a nice television; you've 21 got a nice knife set, silverware. You know, a lot of that

22 stuff downstairs, if it was a burglar, I mean, you would think 23 that a burglar would take those things, or at least --

24

25

A.

No, I understand, it's --

Q.

-- do something like that, right? Right?

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30

I

HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 PI'v

11 rooms or looking around (indiscernible)

12 Q. (indiscernible) okay, now let's go with this

13 thought. He comes upstairs, and you have a nice little, I

14 guess you would call it like a family room or a gathering room

15 or something, you got a nice room up there. You got a nice

16 television right there, you have nice things sitting out right

17 there. I mean, your bedroom is like -- as soon as you come up

)

...•.

10

31

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Instead, instead of him just taking that whole knife

3 set with him, or putting them in a location where he thinks he 4 can just take them and leave the house, he grabs one knife,

5 creeps upstairs, stabs somebody, creeps back downstairs, jumps

6 over the fence, and nobody hears him at all. Is that a

7 burglar?

8

A.

I don't know. I mean, maybe the (indiscernible)

9

Q.

That sounds to me lik~ an assassin.

A.

-- went upstairs and, you know, was just looking in

19

18 the stairs, you can open your bedroom door.

A.

Yeah, I know. I know.

20

Q.

So you would think that if this was a burglar, those

21 are things that he might do.

A.

It's possible.

24 is going to grab a knife from downstairs in your kitchen, goes 25 upstairs, goes past your bedroom, goes past all the expensive

22

23

Q.

So I'm just curious why this burglar all of a sudden

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32
1 stuff in that room, walks past all of that, goes inside this
.' . ,
. ',' further and stabbing this
2 other room that's away commences
3 dude and then leaving.
4 A. I understand. It doesn't - - I know.
5 Q. It doesn't make sense.
6 A. It doesn't make sense. But it doesn't make sense
7 for me that Joe or Victor did it, either, so - - 15

A.

I think it's the wildest story that my friends did

8

Q.

But something happened. But you know something had

9 to happen.

10

A.

Yeah, obviously something happened.

11

Q.

Which story do you think is the most wildest story?

12 Do you think the most wildest story is that a burglar did it, 13 or do you think the most wildest story·is that your friends 14 did it?

16 it. I can't believe that they would do that.

17

Q.

Exactly. Exactly. Because that burglary thing is

18 just, just -- it just doesn't make sense. And we even got

19 people that happened to be out back in their yard. We got one

20 person just happened to be in the room watching television,

21 didn't see nobody out there at all. It's no forced entry in 22 the back door at all. You have an alarm system.

23

A.

But the alarm wasn't on.

24

Q.

Okay, it wasn't on. But it don't make sense for a

25 burglar to walk past all of those nice, expense stuff that

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HALLR 03/2712010 4:22:07 Ptv

· .

•• l"

1 you -- you have a nice house, very expensive stuff. In fact, 2 a burglar probably wouldn't even have to go upstairs, because

3 he could have made his living downstairs on the first floor

4 alone. Wrong or right?

5

A.

Yes. Unless they wanted money or something.

6 Because there's (indiscernible)

7

Q.

Oh, he could have made a lot of stuff just with the

8 stuff downstairs. He could have got a lot of money for that

9 stuff. So he really didn't even really have to go upstairs. 10 But he walks past all of that, don't touch any of that stuff

11 and he goes upstairs, but still he just get a knife out of the 12 kitchen and goes on upstairs. I think that's far fetched.

13

A.

I don't know. I mean, I don't even want to believe

14 that there could be an alternative.

15

Q.

I mean, yeah, I know you don't want to, because

16 they're your friends.

17

A.

I just -- it doesn't make any sense. I have nothing

18 in the past

19

Q.

Why don't it make sense, man? You tell me why don't

20 it make sense.

21

A.

Because I don't understand why -- our relationship

22 with Robert is so casual. I don't --

23

Q.

Do you know the relationship with Robert and Joe?

24

A.

No. I know that they're friends from college.

Do you know the relationship with Robert and Vic?

25

Q.

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HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 Pili

1

No. I mean, I assume that they're just friends.

A.

2

Q.

So then, then what you just said don't make sense

3 either, because you don't even know their relationship. Okay,

4 Joe, Joe is homosexual, right?

5

A.

(Nods head)

6

Q.

Is Robert homosexual?

7

A.

Not that I know of. I've never thought of him as

8 homosexual. He has a wife. I don't --

9

Q.

But you know that

10

A.

I never once thought

11

Q.

but, but you know that there'S homosexual people

12 that also have wives, right?

13

A.

I never got any sort of vibe. I never got any sort

14 of

15

Q.

No, no, no. I understand. I understand it might

16 not be from Rob. I'm saying that you know that there are

17 homosexuals that also are married, right?

18 A. (Nods head)
19 Q. I mean, corne on, everybody knows that.
20 A. Yeah, no, of course there are. But I never
21 suspected or never (indiscernible)
22 Q. But did you ever suspect maybe Rob -- or maybe Joe
23 m~y have had feelings for Rob? You never expected 24

A.

No.

25

Q.

-- have you ever expected that?

_ .

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".:.",

34

HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 PIV

1

2

A.

I never once ever expected it, no.

Q.

Do you have any straight friend that you knew in

3 high school that you are right now friends with or right now 4 having any type of contact with?

5

6

A.

Any what friends? Just any friends?

Q.

Anybody -- any straight person that you knew from

7 high school?

A.

Sure.

8

9

10

Q.

Are you constantly in contact with them?

A.

No, we're in contact, you ·know, when I go home to

11 Takoma or (indiscernible) I see them.

Q.

But are you constantly in contact with them as far

13 as e-mail, as far as letters, or meeting their wives? Meeting

12

14 straight guys. I'm not talking about other homosexuals, I'm

15 talking about guys that are straight, that you know are

16 straight. Are you constantly in contact with any of them?

17 A. No, I'm not in constantly in contact hardly with any

18 friends. I mean

19

Q.

Right. And what about Vic? Can you say the same

20 thing about Vic?

A.

No, I don? t think he's constantly in contact.

21

22

Q.

So why is Joe constantly in contact with a guy who

23 is straight since high school?

A.

No, they're not high school friends, they're college

24

25

friends.

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35

HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Prv

1

He told me that he's known him since senior high

Q.

2 school, senior year in high school.

3

A.

Because Robert's younger than Joe, so maybe Joe knew

4 Robert from Robert's senior year, but Joe was already in

5 college.

6

Q.

Right, Joe was in college and Robert was in senior

7 high school in New York/ right?

8

9

A.

Yes. Because Robert was going to go to his college.

Q.

So why is it that this dude Robert and Joe are

36

10 constantly in contact with one another if Robert is straight?

11 A. Because they're - -
12 Q. Did you find that to be odd?
13 A. No, because they're - -
14· Q. You didn't find that odd?
15 A. No, because Joe's in contact - - Joe's always e- 16 mailing tons of people. He's always on·the phone, he's always 17 in contact with people. Robert lives here, they were in the

18 same society together, or some group together in college, so 19 they've worked together on those things before.

......... ,.:

20

21

22

23

24

25

Q.

But that's just him and Rob. Joe and anybody else?

A.

Yeah. He has a friend Lisa.

Q.

No, we're talking about males, not females.

A.

I don't know, he has lots of male friends.

Q.

Straight?

A.

I don't know (indiscernible) straight ones.

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37
1 Q. You know the answer to that. You know the answer.
2 A. I'd have to think about it.
3 Q. Right. There is no straight guys. The only
4 straight guy that you can probably know that Joe was seeing or 9

A.

-- I don't think that they're in contact that often.

5 good friends with is Rob. Why is that?

6

A.

They went to college together. I mean, that

7 doesn't -- I don't think that

8

Q.

You went to college with

10

Q.

Some of your friends that you went to college with,

11 I'm sure that some of them were straight. Not all of them

12 were gay, right?

13

A.

See, I -- we, see Robert, like, maybe two or three

14 times a year. But I don't know (indiscernible)

15

Q.

That's not what was told, that is not what was told

16 to me from Joe out of his own mouth.

17

A.

Okay. Well, then I don't know their relationship

18 outside of the friendship that I've experienced.

19

Q.

So, therefore, r mean, is it, you know, is it, you

20 know, clear to say that you don't know the full relationship 21 between Rob and Joe?

22

A.

Sure.

23

Q.

Other than them just being friends?

24

A.

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I know. The times

25 that I've been with Robert and Cathy, that's all I know.

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:;':. .

1 Q. Have you ever wondered or have you ever asked Joe
2 about Rob being homosexual?
3 A. No.
4 Q. It never crossed your mind?
5 A. It never crossed my mind. He's married. I didn't . ~ ..• ".: ..

6 ever get any sort of feeling that he was gay. It never, ever

7 crossed my mind. I mean, you know

8

Well, well, well, Dylan, something happened.

Q.

9 Something happened here tonight, and it cost somebody their

10 life. And that's the sad part about it, because now there's a

11 wife out there, a widow out there right now that right now

12 does not have a husband. And we could tell her that story, I

13 don't think she's going to buy it.

14

A.

I'm only telling you what I know. I can't tell you

15 what I don't know.

16

And I really appreciate that. But we got problems.

Q.

17 And I mean, you even said, you know, you know there's

18 problems.

19

No, I understand that there's -- I just can't

A.

20 believe it. I just -- I don't know what to believe.

21

And the one thing that -- I mean, Vic -- I don't

Q.

22 know. I don't know. But something happened in that house

23 tonight that cost somebody thei~ life, and I think it happened 24 between the four of you all. And somehow, some way, it's

25 going to come out.

m--'-_ FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.

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. ~., ..

10

11

12

13

1

Well, I'd like to know what it is, too. I can't

A .

2 I mean, everyone seems to be accusing us, and I can't

3 imagine one of us did it.

4

Q.

Well, first of all, I'm not accusing you. When you

5 said us

6

A.

Well, it sounded like some other people were, you

7 know, intimating that I might have done it, you know? And

8 then to ask me about Victor and about Joe, so it sounds like

9

that's but I just can't imagine it at all. I mean, if it
did if that's the truth, then I want to know.
Q. Right.
A. But I can't imagine
Q. What do you think should happen to - - if it is one 14 of your friends, what do you think should happen?

A.

Well, there should be a trial. I mean, there has to

15

16 be an investigation and a trial to figure out what happened.

Q.

Okay. I would have -- I probably would have

17

18 answered that they should be punished for it, but

A.

I know, but they're my friends. I can't believe

19

20 that they did this. So, you know, I want to know what

21 happened. r mean, if it is one of them, I want to know why.

22 Q. I just find it odd for Rob to all of a sudden

23 just comes over there and spend the night (indiscernible) and 24 from what I was told, he had never done it before.

25

A.

No, he had never done it before. But it's a new job

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2

1 and he had been told --

3

Q.

Okay.

-- that his

the person that he replaced, one of

4 the reasons he had to be replaced was because he wasn't

A.

6

5 interacting well with other people.

Q.

Right.

7

A.

So (indiscernible) is that he wanted to stay there

8 and meet the guys, and then he would just (indiscernible) --

Q.

I just find that hard, I just find that -- let me

9

10 explain it to you. I just find it hard to believe that this

11 guy Rob, who had never done this before, all of a sudden comes

12 over to your house, sleeps over your house, and the night that

• W',

13 he decides to sleep over your house, there's a burglar that

15

14 comes in there and kills Rob.

A.

But it could have been any guest. My brother was

16 there last weekend. You know, I can't believe it.

17

18 Rob.

19

20

Q.

But it didn't happen to your brotherr it happened to

A.

It doesn't make any sense. I don't know.

Q.

Out of all the nights (indiscernible) it happened

21 tonight to Rob. I don't know, man.

I mean, I don't have an answer. I never

22

23

A.

Q.

Well, I tell you what we're going to do. It's 6:18

25

24 right now, a.m., okay?

A.

(Nods head)

. "~ ....

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1

I can get a hold of one of my guys down at the FBI

Q.

2 who does lie detector, you know, lie detectors, he does that.

3 Why don't I give him a call and see if he can set it up for 4 you today. Let's just get this over with. And you can just 5 come in there and take this test and let's just get it over

6 with. And if you're clear, you pass

7

A.

Should I have a lawyer before I do that? I mean, I

8 don't know, I don't --

9

Q.

What do you need a lawyer for?

10

A.

I don't know how this works.

11

Q.

But you don't need a lawyer. I mean, if I didn't do

12 anything, what do I need a lawyer for?

13

A.

(indiscernible) I don't have anything to hide.

14

Q.

Exactly. So what do you need a lawyer for?

15

A.

Just because I've never had anything like this

16 happen to me before and I'm scared because I don't know how

17 these things work.

18

Q.

Well, you just go down there -- okay, let me explain

19 it to you. You're going to go down there

I can't be there,

20 okay? The only one that can be there is him and you. And
21 what he's going to do, he's going to hook you up to a machine,
22 he's going to ask you some questions that you're going to know
23 that is true, you know, your name, where you live at, your
24 mother's name. And what he's going to do is show you the test 25 to see if you're lying or not, and then he's going to tell you

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1 the true -- then he's going to tell you to tell a lie, and

4

2 then he's going to show you what happens when you tell a lie.

3 Okay?

5

A.

(Nods head)

42

6 through all that with you, and then he's just going to ask you 7 some questions about tonight. And he's probably going to ask

Q.

Then he's going to show you all that and he'll go

8 you similar questions that we've been asking you, and he's

9 going to get your reaction. Okay?

10

A.

Okay. I'mean, I'm just telling you what I know

11 (indiscernible)

'"

12

13

Q.

Okay.

A.

Is someone going to have to be able to call my work

. \

14 or my parents or --

Q.

Yeah (indiscernible) yeah.

15

16

17

18

19

A.

I don't have a phone.

20 (indiscernible) you can use the phone. Now, you don't to have

Q.

Huh?

A.

I don't have a phone.

Q.

Yeah, you can call them. You can use the phone

21 to do that. It's up to you. It's totally up to you.

22

A.

I don't know, because I don't know if that's

23 standard,procedure or not.

24

Q.

Oh, yeah, we do it with people sometimes. In

25 situations like this, yeah. And, you know, people don't have

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2

1 problems with it. Some do. The majority of them don't .

A.

Well, I'm just telling you what I know, so --

So let me go try to set this up, and I'll let you

.....

......

3

Q.

4 use the phone, call your job, your --

A.

Well, they're not going to be there yet.

5

6

Q.

Oh, okay. And then we can go take this test, and

43

7 I'm sure you'll pass with flying colors, and then you'll be on

8 your way.

9

10

11

12

A.

About what time will it exactly happen? I need to call first.

Q.

A.

Can I go to the bathroom?

Q.

Urn-hum. You want anything to eat or anything? You

13 hungry or anything?

I'm not hungry, I'm just thirsty.

14 A.
15 Q.
16 A.
17 so
18 Q.
19 okay?
20 Is that good enough, or do you want something else?

Well, I don't know how long I'm going to be here,

Let me call and find out and -- I'll see for you,

21 briefly, and Mr. Ward subsequently returned and was left in

(Detective Norris and Mr. Ward left the room

22 the room alone.)

23 BY DETECTIVE NORRIS:

24 Q. (From the doorway) Hey, we're waiting on the guy to

25 call back. We left word with him, he's going to call us back.

.-;.: .

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1 And as soon as he calls us back, he's going to give us a time

3

Q.

Yeah, until it's time for us to go out. You see,

2 when you can come up, okay?

A.

Okay. So I just have to stay here?

4

5 he's either going to come here or we've go"t to go there. And 6 you know the FBI building, right, downtown?

7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. Okay?
9 A. Do you have any magazines or anything?
10 Q. Yeah, sure.
11 (Detective Norris stepped out.)
12 DETECTIVE NORRIS. (Speaking to someone in the 13 hall) (indiscernible) where the magazines at? Where the

14 magazines at? They used to be up here.

15

MR. WARD.

That's okay. You said that at some

16 point I could call my office?

17 (Detective Norris returns)

18 BY DETECTIVE NORRIS:

19 Q. Urn-hum. You want to call?
20 A. Well, no, I mean, they don't get there until 8:30,
21 but
22 Q. We got a problem with your other two guys. It don't
23 look good. They pretty much one of them pretty much was 24 talking about what happened, so we've got to try to figure out

25 what we need to do, okay? You know, that's why it's very

."~~"

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1 important that if you do know what happened, it's very

3

2 important to say it now, if you do know something.

4

5

A.

(indiscernible)

Q.

I don't want to see you get caught up in nothing. I didn't see anything else. I don't know anything

A.

6 of else that would have (indiscernible)

Q.

All right. All right. Did you hear them talking

7

8 about anything?

A.

No, I didn't hear them talking about anything. All

9

10 I remember is them calling 911 and Joe said to get the

12

11 ambulance.

Q.

When you went to bed last, where were they at?

13

A.

Victor was up in his room, and I didn't see Joe

14 (indiscernible) Joe was showing Robert the shower when I went

16

15 into my room and closed the door (indiscernible)

Q.

Okay. Let me (indiscernible) use the phone

17 (indiscernible)

18

A.

Yeah, I won't need it until 8:30. Could someone

19 just tell me when that is? I left my watch at home.

Q.

Okay. All right.

20

21

22

23

24

25

·';"';"t

(Detective Norris left the room)

(Detective and Sergeant Wagner enter.)

DETECTIVE NORRIS.

How you doing?

BY DETECTIVE KASUL:

Q.

Dylan, you remember me, Detective Kasul?

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7

A.

No, Joe and I were downstairs talking to Robert.

Yeah.

1 A.
;.'
r.:· •. ·
2 Q.
3 A. We were talking earlier?

Yeah. Detective Norris was -- we were talking in

4 the hall, too. Detective Norris just kind of briefly went

5 over what you said, and you last saw Robert with Joe, is that

6 right?

A.

When I went to bed, Joe was showing Robert the

8 shower, because Robert wanted to take a shower, and that's

9 when

that's the last I saw either of them. That's when I

10 went into my room and, you know, started reading and then went

11 to bed.

12 Q. Because that's not what I understood you to say

13 before. Again, this was off tape, so

14 A. No, Robert wanted to take a shower, and so Joe was

15 showing him the bathroom. And then, you know, my room is

16 right by the bathroom, so I just kind of walked over there and

17 then walked into my room.

18

Q.

Right. But before, you said that you had taken

19 Robert upstairs and that he had gotten into the shower, went

20 in the bathroom to take a shower.

21

22 Both of us went upstairs with Robert. Both of us went into

23 that room, showed him where he was going to sleep, showed him

24 his towels. He said that he felt damp and wanted to take a

25

shower, and so we just showed him to the shower, and then I

._ .....

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1 went to bed .

.. .........

Q.

And that's what you said last time too, that Victor

2

Q.

But that's not what I understood you to say ea~lier.

3 I understood you earlier to say that you took him upstairs --

A.

No.

4

5

Q.

-- and that Joe and Victor went into their room.

6

A.

No. No, Joe was with me when we took Robert

7 upstairs. Joe and I were talking to Robert in the kitchen. I 8 let Robert in and then Joe came downstairs. We talked to

9 Robert. Then all three of us went upstairs. We never saw

10 Victor. Victor wasn't there this whole time as far as I know.

11 And then, you know, we showed him the room. He wanted to

12 shower, told him where the shower was and then I went to bed

13 and that's the last I saw of Robert.

14 BY SGT. WAGNER:

15

Q.

So by the time Robert shows up, Victor's already in

16 bed?

17

A.

Yeah, Victor was already upstairs.

18

BY DETECTIVE KASUL:

19

20 was already upstairs, that Victor wasn't down. But you're

21 sure last time you said it was you who took Robert upstairs?
22 A. No, we took Robert upstairs.
23 Q. Okay. Now it's you and Joe took Robert upstairs?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. SO you're ',,;.,:

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-, 1
i
,
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 A. The two of us were talking to him and both of us

took him upstairs.

Q. And you're sure about that?

A. Yes, I'm completely sure. Q. What was Joe wearing?

A. He was wearing a blue shirt and shorts. Like a blue

T-shirt.

Q. What kind of shorts?

A. I don't know. Like khaki shorts.

Q. Is that what he had been wearing all day?

A. He had it on at dinner but he wasn't wearing it all

day. He was at work and then went to the gym.

Q. Okay. What were you wearing that time when you took

14 him upstairs? What did you have on?

15

A.

I -- I don't know. Because I got up and just threw

16 on some clothes because I had been in bed. So I don't know.

17 I mean, earlier I was wearing a blue T-shirt and not these

18 shorts but some like heavier kind of brown shorts.

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

DETECTIVE. (indiscernible)?

MR. WARD. What's that?

DETECTIVE. Were they rust?

MR. WARD. Yeah, like kind of rust-colored.

BY DETECTIVE KASUL:

Q.

You said you had been in bed?

A.

Yeah, I was reading. I had told the guys that I was

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;:',.

1 going to go to bed. So I went to bed and I was just --

2

Q.

I'm talking about, you know, when he got there

3 before this happened, what did you have on?

4

A.

A blue T-shirt and some like rust-colored pants,

5 shorts.

6

Q.

That's what you had on when you and Joe showed

7 Robert the shower?

8

A.

I think so, but I can't be sure because I just kind

9 of rushed and put my clothes on to answer the doorbell. I
10 wasn't really ,paying attention. I imagine it's the same
11 thing, because that's what I had on earlier.
12 Q. Why did you answer the door?
13 A. I wasn't going to answer the door. I thought Joe 14 was going to answer the door. But the doorbell rang and I

15 didn't hear anybody going downstairs to answer it for a couple

16 minutes, so I got up out of bed, put on some clothes, and went

17 down and answered the door. Then Robert came in and Joe came

18 downstairs.

19

Q.

All right. We'll -- I understand you're taking a

20 polygraph this morning?

21

A.

Yeah.

22

Q.

Okay. Well, we'll figure some things out

23 (indiscernible).

24

A.

Sure.

(Detective Kasul, Detective Norris and Sgt. Wagner

25

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2

A.

Okay. Robert is a friend Joseph. And he just

1 left. )

(Detective Waid entered.)

3

BY DETECTIVE WAID:

4

Q.

Hey, how are you doing?

5

A.

(indiscernible)

6

Q.

Detective Waid. Hi. I know -- I guess you talked

7 to some other detectives?

8

A.

(Nods head)

9

Q.

Okay. One other detectives? No, there was (indiscernible)

Oh, there was? Okay. All right. I was up at the

10

-A.

11

Q.

12 house. I'm going to be handling this case and I just wanted

13 to come in and personally meet you and find out what --

14 everything happened personally rather than getting it

15 secondhand information from my colleagues, all right? Why

16 don't you just start from the beginning and tell me, maybe

17 help me out understand everything that happened?

18

19 recently got a new job at (indiscernible) Free Radio or

20 something, and he wanted to go in to meet the people that work 21 the night shift. So Joe had told me a couple days ago that he

22 was going to come over tonight late, like 11:30 or something

23 like that, after he had met the guys and just sleep at our 24 house. So that's what happened. He came by sometime after

25 10:30. I had already gone into my room to read for the night.

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r: ~\

1 I wasn't expecting to answer the door. He's Joe's friend. I

;."

(TO Mr. Ward) Excuse me.

2 thought Joe would get the door. The 400rbell rings. No one

3 answered it for a couple minutes, so I throw on my clothes and

4 go down and I let Robert in. And our door has a chime on
5 it
6 Q. Now, have you ever met Robert before?
7 A. Oh, yeah. I've met Robert, I don' t know, twice.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. So the door chimed and then Joe comes downstairs, 10 because I'm sure he heard the door chime as well. Then we

11 talked to Robert. You know, I got him a glass of water. Joe 12 came down. We talked about his wife, his job, a friend of

13 ours, you know, just chitchat. And then we went upstairs,

14 Joe, Robert and I, to show Robert his room (indiscernible).

15 He said he wanted to shower. So we took him, you know, showed

16 him the shower. My room is right by the shower, so I went

17 into, went into my room, closed the door. Then I

18 (indiscernible) and then took a (indiscernible) and just --

19 which I take every night, and went to bed. I remember at some

20 point hearing --

21

Q.

Excuse me one second. I got to take this.

22

DETECTIVE WAID.

(On the phone) Hello?

23

Yes. Uh-huh.

24

Not yet.

25

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1

A.

So then I'm sleeping. I hear like a high pitched

"'-:'

2

Okay.

BY DETECTIVE WAID:

3

Q.

Sorry about that. It gets a little busy when

4 something like this happens. All right. I'm sorry. You were

5 saying so Robert comes over and, and you got -- you give him

6 some water, he takes a shower?

7

A.

No, we get him some water. We talk for like 10

8 minutes or something, just catching up chitchat, how his wife

9 Cathy's doing because she had a hip surgery or replacement 10 lately, stuff like that. Then it was Joe, Robert, and me

11 downstairs. So we took him upstairs to show him the, you

12 know, his bed in the office. And he said that he felt damp

13 and wanted to take a shower. So we took him over to the

14 shower and that's right by my bedroom. And I just went in

15 there, closed my door, kept reading my article and then, y?U 16 know, went to bed.

17

Q.

Okay.

18

19 noise, like kind of short. And it didn't, it just didn't

20 really wake me up that much. I mean, I remember it but I

21 didn't -- it wasn't enough to like get me out of my sleep.

22 And then so I drift back and then the next thing I know I hear

23 lots of commotion and I hear like some screaming. And then,

24 then I'm scared. So I get up. I didn't know what to do. 11m

25 worried that there might be an intruder or somebody there, so

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1 I wait a second. I get my robe and then I go out. The lights

10

We had to go downstairs and wait on the couches. We

2 are on. Victor is there in his robe talking on the phone to

3 like 911 telling them -- asking them to get there. Joe I can

4 see past Victor in the room. He's sitting there with Robert

5 and I can see Robert on the bed and I can see some blood. So

6 I don't know. And then I just sort of was in shock. I didn't

7 know what to do. Victor was already talking to 911. So I

8 just sort of like sat down on the couch in the living room for 9 a second. And then, you know, just got up.

The (indiscernible) whoever came, emergency medical

11 services came. We didn't want to go downstairs beforehand

12 because we thought there was -- you know, there might be

13 somebody down there. But when they came, Victor ran

14 downstairs, opened the door for them. They came upstairs,

15 took the stretcher in to get Robert. We had to go downstairs.

16 I remember as I was going downstairs kind of looking around

17 the corner to -- through the room and noticing that the lock

18 on the door was (indiscernible), which means that it was not

19 bolted.

20

21 talked some, you know, speculating about what happened. We 22 didn't really talk a lot. I think everybody was upset and in 23 shock. I was asking about our roommate Sarah, if we called

24 her, because she was spending the night with some friends and

25 was out late and I didn't want her to get scared when she came

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53

HALLR 03/27/2010 4:22:07 Pfv

1 home. She lives in the basement. Joe was asking about

6

A.

I don't really know. I read for like 5 to 10

2 Robert, if they could give us any information on how he's

3 doing. He called Robert's wife, Cathy. And then, you know, 4 the detective was there and then they told us to go upstairs 5 and get dressed and then they brought us here.

Q.

Okay. Was -- when Robert came over, were you guys

7 drinking?

8

A.

No. We, we had -- all of us had wine with dinner,

9 but just -- not a lot, just a glass with dinner.

10

Q.

which Robert wasn't there?

11

A.

No,. Robert wasn't there for dinner. We had already

12 cleaned up. Victor was in bed. I had already gone to my room

13 to read with the door closed. I wasn't expecting to answer

14 the door. Just, you know, because it's Joe's friend and I

15 thought he was going to wait up and answer the door. And I

16 think he just didn't hear the doorbell or something, so I went

17 downstairs and answered the door. But no, we didn't drink

18 anything. We had water. I gave Robert a glass of water. Joe

19 had some water. We talked for just a -- like 10 minutes and

20 then we went upstairs.

21

Q.

Okay. And how long after you went upstairs in your

22 bedroom and closed the door did you hear the muffled -- you 23 said it sounded like a muffled scream?

24

25 minutes finishing an article. And then I looked -- I remember

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" ..'

1 looking at my BlackBerry and seeing that it was like 11:00, 2 and that's when I went to bed. So I don't know how much

p.-',;.,

A.

No, I didn't know it was unlocked. I assumed it was

3 longer it was. I don't know if it was a half an hour. I

4 don't really know. Because I remember I didn't fall asleep

5 right away. But then I -- you know, it's after I fell asleep

6 at some point.

7

Q.

okay. So when you, when you fell asleep and you

8 heard the muffled scream, how long after did you hear all the

9 rustling and, and

10 A. I can't really tell you for sure because I was still

11 asleep. But I -- my gut tells me it was like two or three

12 minutes. But I can't -- I don't know for sure.

13

Q.

Okay. And I'm not sure about this part. Like I

14 said, I've been up at the house all night and the guys I'm

15 working with have talked to people. And I understand there 16 was some kind of claim that there was a burglary?

17

A.

Well, yeah, because we didn't, we didn't know what

18 was going on. I was in bed. I assumed that they were in bed.

19 Robert, I heard him take a shower. I heard him go into his

20 room. And that door was unlocked. And so that made me just

21 kind of assume, okay, someone had come in.

22

Q.

Did somebody leave the door unlocked? I mean, did

23 you know when you went to bed that that door was unlocked?

24

25

locked.

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1

.... ;

2

Q.

Okay. So when did you notice the door was unlocked?

A.

I noticed it when I was coming downstairs after the

3 people had gone upstairs with the stretcher. I was coming 4 downstairs just kind of surveying the room and right away I

6

5 noticed that that was unlocked.

Q.

Did you say anything to your roommates?

7

8

9

A.

Yeah.

Q.

What was that conversation about?

A.

No, we were all just trying to figure out what had

10 happened. And I said that door is unlocked. And so we

11 figured someone must have come through that door. But I

12 didn't hear anybody going up the stairs. Nothing woke me up

13 until that, you know, scream kind of roused me. And then it

15

14 was all the commotion that really woke me up.

Q.

Do you have any idea how somebody could come over

16 that gate or that fence or anything like that?

17

A.

The only thing I could think of is that the car is

56

18 parked right there, that they could have jumped on the hood of

20

19 the car and jumped over it.

Q.

Yeah, that, that -- there's no --

21

22

23

24

A.

I just don't know.

Q.

Yeah, that's

I know that -_

A.

Because the

25 have jumped over it from the car. Because I noticed those

Q.

That's what we thought, eventually, somebody could

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1 gates are high. I mean --

2

A.

No. Me and Victor. I started making the bed and

A.

Yeah, the fence is pretty high.

3

Q.

Yeah, the fence and the gate.

4

A.

There's that shed, but I don't know how close it is

5 to the fence.

6

Q.

Yeah, I don't think you could do that. I mean,

7 (indiscernible) maybe walk like on a balance beam over there, 8 but -- but, I mean, do you know if anybody knew Robert was

9 staying there?

10

A.

Only his wife, I assume. No, I don't know. I mean,

11 I was never in contact with Robert. He's, you know, Joe's

12 friend and, you know, I just assumed he was coming over

13 because he didn't want to go all the way back to Virginia 14 tonight if he was working late.

15

Q.

Now, who all lives in your house?

16

A.

Joe and Victor and me and then Sarah lives in the

17 basement.

18

Q.

Okay. Now, did Victor come down at all?

19 A. Not while we were talking with Robert in the

20 kitchen. And not -- he didn't -- we didn't -- I did not see

21 Victor -- we made the bed for Robert and then I went to my

22 room

23

Q.

Who? You and Joe?

24

25 then Victor came in and said, who -- "Are we having a guest?1I

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2

1 And I said, "Oh, yeah, Robert's coming (indiscernible)."

Q.

Now, does he know Robert?

.,".' ..

.....

3

4 each other. We see each other maybe two or three times a

A.

Yes. We're all -- we all -- I mean, we just know

5 year. We know his wife. You know, he's an old college friend

58

7

6 of Joe's and so we don't see him very often, but, you know --

Q.

Okay. All right. So when -- so initially it was

8 you, Robert, and Joe downstairs having a glass of water?

9 10

A.

Right.

Q.

Okay. And then you guys go upstairs, you show him

12

11 to the shower and --

A.

No, we show him to his --

17 him -- he said he wanted him to shower, so we just showed him

18 where the bathroom was and then I went to bed. And that's the

13

14

15

16

Q.

His room.

A.

-- to his room.

Q.

Okay.

A.

And both Joe and I were there. And then we showed

20

19 last I saw of Joe or Robert.

Q.

So when did Victor come down?

21

A.

I didn't see Victor until all of the commotion had

22 happened and I opened my door.

Q.

I thought you mentioned something that Victor was

23

24 making the bed?

Yeah. But that was after dinner. That was before

25

,,!.:- .'

A.

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S9

1 Robert ever got there. We had dinner. We cleaned up dinner. 2: Then we went upstairs. Joe was fooling around with the shower

S

3 because the shower has been leaking. And I started making the

4 bed for Robert and then Victor came in.

6

7

8

9

Q.

Okay.

A.

And then Victor went to bed and I went to my room.

Q.

And that's when Victor asked are we having guests?

A.

Yes.

10 your guess is a half an hour goes by and then you hear the,

Q.

Okay. And so then you go to bed and then about a

12

11 the muffled scream and

A.

I don't know if it's muffled. But, I mean, I just

14

13 didn't -- it wasn't like a blood curdling scream or anything.

15

16

Q.

And then like two or three minutes later you hear -That's my gut feeling.

A.

17 come out of your bedroom and you see Victor and Robert --

Q.

Right. Yeah, I mean, it's your best -- and then you

18 Victor and Joe's in the bedroom with Robert and did anybody

20

19 say anything? Did you see what was going on?

A.

Well, yeah. I mean, I don't remember exactly what I

21 said. All I remember is going and seeing it, not believing 22 it, and Victor's on the phone to 911.

23

24

2S

-~.'. , .

Q.

Did you see a knife?

A.

No, I didn't, I didn't see a knife.

Q.

Okay.

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-.': :

1

I had heard that there was a knife. I heard that

A •

, ', ',

':/

2 Joe said that he had moved it, but I never saw it. I never

3 went into that room. I was like frozen.

4

Q.

So Joe said he, said he moved the knife?

5

A.

Urn-hum.

6

Q.

Okay. Do you know why he moved the knife?

7 A. I don't know if it was on Robert or -- I have no

8 idea. I didn't ask him.

9

Q.

Okay. And then do you remember anybody holding a

10 towel on him or

11

A.

I, I didn't really go in and -- into the room. I

12 just sort of peered over Victor and then I was like backing

13 off. But I seem to remember that there was some sort of -- it

14 looked like a square that was being pressed on his chest. But

15 I didn't like I didn't really pay attention.

16 Q. Now, was Joe trying to do --

17 A. Like staunch it or something.

18

Q.

Yeah. Okay. And did -- okay, so then you guys go

19 downstairs and did anybody say anything about like -- okay,

20 were you guys talk about a possible burglary or --

21

A.

Yes. I mean, we went downstairs and they told us to

22 sit on the couch. I immediately noticed that that lock was 23 unlocked. And so I said that, you know, that I think someone

24 must have gotten in through that door. And I said they should

25

look for footprints or something because he'd have to jump

.:; ......

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61

1 into the grass or mud or whatever. And Joe was saying just 2 fuck and what the fuck and, you know, worried about calling

8

Q.

And another thing, you know, with what/s going on

3 cathy and finding out how Robert was doing. But we didn't, we 4 didn't really sit and talk a whole lot. Everyone was just --

5 you know, the police officer or guard or someone was trying to

6 make conversation about how (indiscernible) like this and

7 stuff.

Q.

So, I mean, I'm going to be straight up with you

9 here. I got a couple of issues. It would be almost

10 impossible to get in that back door. I mean, that's, that's -

11 - I mean, your neighbors have a gate, like a power gate. The

12 other neighbors, I mean, that's even higher than your gate. I

13 mean, that place is locked in. I mean, even if you left the

14 back door open, you'd be hard pressed to get in there. That's 15 why when I heard that somebody may have come in the back, that 16 seemed pretty --

17

A.

It was just speculation because that door was open

18 and I couldn't think of where else they would have come in.

19

Q.

Right.

20

A.

You know, it's just that's what I thought.

21

Q.

Okay.

22

A.

But I didn't know that anybody came in. I never

23 heard anybody come in. I just saw that and that's what I

24 just

25

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HALLR 03/27/20104:22:07 Ptv

.~-: ..

':.::~;,\

.. '-. " ......

1 and everything, this is a very serious case and right now is

2 really the -- if there's anything that you need to tell us, 3 right now is the absolute time.

4

A.

Everybody keeps telling that to me and I'm giving

5 you everything that I -- I'm not hiding anything. I don't

6 know anything of any relationship that Joe may have had with 7 Robert other than a friendship. I never suspected anything. 8 I -- it just never occurred to me that they could have done

9 it. You know, I immediately thought it must have been a break

10 in. So I'm not --

11

Q.

I mean, because

12

A.

Everyone keeps asking me for more information but --

13

Q.

Well, you know, you have to understand where we're

14 coming from. You know, something like this, we have to, we

15 have to look at everything. And, you know, I was really

16 looking at the burglary thing like trying to figure out how I 17 could get in there if I wanted to, and I'd be hard pressed to.

18 Now, you know, then we have to look at, well, you know, the

19 three of you guys were in there. And, you knowr when -- and 20 I'm not saying this is the case, but if you came in here today

21 and covered up for Joe or Victor, you know, I mean, we don't

22 know. We weren't there. So anything could have happened. I

23 mean, you know, Victor got jealous or Joe got jealous or --

24

A.

I'm not covering up for anybody.

Q.

Okay.

25

" .; .....

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1

A.

I'm scared because I'm confused. I mean, it's just

A.

I swear. I don't --

2

Q.

But that's, that's where

3

A.

I don't know (indiscernible)

4

Q.

-- I want you to know where I'm coming from is I

5 wasn't there. I don't know what happened. And, you know, you

6 guys have the alarm system, you know, the gates, the heavy

7 duty doors and windows. You know, it almost to me seems

8 impossible that somebody would come in there, kill the guy and

9 leave.

10 A. Yeah, I know. r don't understand
11 Q. Do you know what I mean?
12 A. I know. I see where you're coming from.
13 Q. And that's what, that's what I'm, you know, I'm
14 trying to figure out what happened. And, you know, I don't 15 want to accuse you of having anything to do with it, but I

16 have

there are hard questions I have to ask and, you know,

17 and if you did know anything or, you know, right now if you're

18 scared and you're worried that you might get in trouble

19

A.

I am scared. But I'm not, I'm not hiding anything.

20 I'm not trying to cover up for anybody. I mean, of course,

21 I'm scared.

22

Q.

Right.

23

A.

But --

24

Q.

I mean, why would you be scared?

25

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1 crazy that something like this would happen in our house. And 2 crazy that any of us -- even the idea that they could have

3 done it. It doesn't make sense to me at all. So I'm scared

6

A.

No, I'm telling you the way that it happened. I

4 because I'm confused and -- you know, someone was stabbed in

5 our house.

Q.

Right. I can understand that. I mean, that's,

7 that's got to be a lot to take in. But, you know -- I mean, 8 we're going to be in the house for the duration. So, I mean,

9 last night was just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, we're 10 going back in and they're going to be doing all kinds of

11 chemical tests and, you know, making sure, you know, either it

12 was a burglary or it wasn't. You know, there's going to be

13 evidence in there.

A.

Yes.

14

15

Q.

There's going to be, you know, a footprint on the

16 fence or, you know, handprints, or something like that and,

17 you know, through the windows, we're going to be checking all 18 that. And, you know, a case like this, as we eliminate those

19 things, there's -- it's really going to be hard for somebody 20 to come back and say, hey, look, you know, this is really what

21 happened.

22

23 mean, I wasn't -- I didn't see it happen, so I don't know how

24 it happened. And I didn't open the door, so I didn't see

25

anybody running out or I didn't even hear anybody running down

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1 the stairs. So I

2

Q.

You know, they're partners, correct?

Q.

Right.

3

A.

So I don't know. I mean --

4

Q.

Now, let me ask you this. I mean, we noticed stuff

5 like there are hard wood steps. You know, you can hear it

6 when people are walking up and down. Even if you went up and 7 down in barefoot I imagine you could probably hear it. And

8 did you hear the doorbell go off?

9

A.

I do not remember hearing the chime.

10

Q.

Okay. Do you usually hear it?

I hear it in the morning. It will wake me up

11

A.

12 because Sarah will go and take a walk. But -- and, you know,

13 of course, if I'm downstairs I'll hear it.

14

Q.

Right.

15

A.

So -- yeah, but if I was -- you know, if I was

16 really asleep, I mean, you know, I may not have heard it. But

17 I didn't personally -- I mean, I don't remember hearing it.

18

Q.

Okay. And, again, right now where we're at, do

19 you -- can you think of anything that could -- I mean, I mean,

20 you know, just from me talking to you, you don't seem like a 21 bad dude and, you know, I can't see you doing this to

22 somebody. You know, is Joe or Victor capable of something

23 like this? Are they jealous or --

24

A.

No. I mean --

25

.•. ·1

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.' - ~ .....

1

2

A.

Yes.

Q.

Okay. Now, if Victor went downstairs and Joe -- I

3 mean, is that a possibility or --

I don't think so.

4

5

A.

Q.

6 so I don't know, you know, are either one of them -- get

I mean, I don't know, I don't know any of you guys,

8

7 jealous?

A.

They might get jealous, but I've never seen them

9 like have a fight over it.

10

11 this?

12

Q.

A.

I mean, can you think of any other explanation for

13 somebody was in the house. But I can't -- I understand

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that

14 everybody's doubts about it, too. It doesn't quite fit to me.

16

15 Nothing that I know was missing. Nothing was broken.

Right.

17

18

19

Q.

A.

Q.

A.

I don't remember --

And you had money sitting there and laptops.

20 would never suspect anything like this with them. So it's

So I -- I mean, Joe and Victor are my friends, so I

21 very hard for me to imagine. I mean, if it did happen{ then,

23

22 you know

Q.

24 now. I mean --

I mean, that's, that's what we're working on right

25

A.

What 1-- I mean, the only other thing that it could

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1 be is that he killed himself. But that's -- I have no reason

.; I',

A.

I don't -- nothing was very clear to me until I got

2 to believe that he did that.

3

Q.

Yeah, I don't, I don't think -- but, you know, we're

4 just trying to

I mean, we have·to find out what happened.

5 And ultimately I think is forensically is how we're going to 6 do it. And if they find out if he was stabbed, where he was

? laying or if the body was moved or anything like that. We'll 8 be able to tell all that stuff. So and, you know, we just

9 want to make sure that if anybody asked you, hey, help me out, 10 we got to move him over, or anything like that. All that is

11 very important.

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

And

··i

14

A.

He was on that pullout couch when I came out of my

15 room.

16

Q.

And did you hear Joe yell, "Hey, Victor, come down

17 here,1I or

18

19 out of the room and I know that Victor was on the phone to

20 91l. But otherwise, I mean, I heard screaming and --
21 Q. From Joe or Victor?
22 A. r think it was Victor that screamed, but I really
23 don't know. I mean, I think it was Victor's voice~ But then
24 there was, you know, commotion and I heard it going on. And I
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2

1 and went out.

But, I mean, I don't even remember, I mean, if like

68

3 I shook Robert's hand when he came in. But I, you know -- the

4 last I saw of Robert before then was when he was going in to

5 look at the bathroom. And then I heard him take a shower and

6 I heard the door close, his door close. My door was always

7 closed.. But I heard like that latch.

9

A.

8 Q. On Robert's door?

Yeah. Well, I assume (indiscernible)

10

Q.

11 going to be a couple of minutes. Just--

I don't know what time it is. I need to call my

12

A.

13 employer.

14

Q.

15 me -- I'll be right back. You don't want any more water or

Sure. Just so I don't forget (indiscernible) let

16 anything?

17 A.
18 Q.
19
20
21
22 you down.
23
24
25 ·;,. r, :·i··_·

Well, do you want another water or anything? It's

Water would be (indiscernible)

All right. I'll be right back. (Detective Waid left.)

(Unidentified speaker entered.)

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.

Come on, we're going to take

We're going to take you to the FBI.

(Unidentified speaker and Mr. Ward left.)

(Mr. Ward returned with an unidentified speaker.)

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.

He'll be right back. He's

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_.j .

2

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.

(From the doorway) We need

1 on the phone.

MR. WARD.

What time, what time is it?

3

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.

8:20.

4

MR. WARD. . At some point I need to call my work.

5

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.

Okay.

6

MR. WARD.

Thank you.

7

(Unidentified speaker left.)

8

9 for you to come back in here again.

10 (The interview was concluded.)

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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'''-' .. : .. ~

1

CERTIFIcATE

2

3 I hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate 4 transcription, to the best of my skill and ability, from a 5 videotape.

6
7 January 4 , 2007
Date
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