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PLATO'S GOEGIAS.
Cambritjge:
PRINTED BY
C. J. CLAY, 3I.A.
AT THE UNIVERSITY PRESS.
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
LITERALLY TRANSLATED,
BY
E.
M. COPE,
CAMBRIDGE
DEIGHTON, BELL, AND
LONDON: BELL AND DALDY,
1864.
CO.
THE
INSTITI'Tr
JO
ri!"
ftfrr!n/|
Jot
WAH 3
STUDIES
.
1932
PREFACE.
The
object
aimed at
in
this Translation
is,
as the
as possible
word
for
word
into English,
and
it
is
On
the contrary,
it
is
who
are learning or
modes of expression which the habits of thought prevailing in times and places so far removed from one
another have stamped upon their respective idioms.
Those who have done so are the only
fair
judges of
make
first
and shortcomings
to
the
which
will
tion.
My
in this transla-
aim of every
translator,
have done
my
and I
rUEFACE.
vi
\vliich
sacrificed,
may
ease and
grace
Englisli
grammar
are alike
parajjhrase,
writer,
fail
to give
which
me
It
seems
veyed only
in
translation;
and
his
own
this
all
words, that
view
is
is,
in a literal
I think supported
by
I need go no
perhaps insuperable,
difficulties that
Of
the great,
stand in the
way
myself:
still
and must
this
spirit is
and
who attempts
faithfully
to
work of
represent any
language but
;
still
which
it
is
invested
with
its
new
dress.
Greeks
lived,
character
upon
their
The
the
their distinctive
PREFACE.
sion, are so entirely
vii
in this
an exact equivalent
fail
in his
own language
Hardest of
all is
imaginative
of express-
trains of reasoning
struse,
and never
dialogues take a formal and di-
bril-
and yet
by one
of Plato's
and
familiarity with
is
the perfect
here
6
37/
.A5'C7
rUEFACK
viii
no
constructed
artificially
periods',
no
pompous
the grace
all
It seems to
is
me
of Plato.
and to convey to
version a certain
their
style-.
In
and
all
set phrases,
and elaborately
manage
it,
own
language.
With
own manthis
view
and always as
in
them.
One
ties
^
which a translator of
this
is
they are
PREFACE.
ix
and freedom
ticles.
by them are
so fine
and
delicate,
always
to
Greek par-
combinations,
meaning conveyed
often by their subrender;
difficult to
own
language,
selves
most
four,
little
attention
letters^,
occupy
little
to themselves
that
they throw an
way
of a translator
who
is
in the
avoidable.
characterised
down
conscientiously translates
the
German
Greek
^
/ieV
originals
8e ye yap nov
common
them
by which
carrying
his
work
minute particulars
all:
though how
far
various combinations
ticles in
these
to
who
no foreigner probably
rroi ttohs tol hrj
make up
av apa ovv
is
p.rjv ciXka.
competent
Trore
list
with their
of the par-
PREFACE.
my own
to decide.
and
But
formal.
we
sacrifice
the dialogue.
J t is
by these
in a great
of
it,
degree that
hesitation
diffidence
vehemence resolution
and
at
any rate
aided and heightened; they give point to an observation and connection to an argument: they are
light shades
and
the"
hard to catch,
the
harmony and
finish,
more
it
sertion^;
risk of
rative,
and
in so doing
than thqir
cut
in-
and thrust
lively nar-
dialectics,
or
easy
conversation,
lengthy words
when
it
for
long
occurs as introductory to a
but
doubt
if ^Ye
PREFACE.
words I have always done
must be employed
often
own language
our
my
xi
best to avoid
in default of
which
any others in
Another
who
lator
by a
trans-
and freedom of the Platonic style is the use of technical terms to convey the doctrines and conceptions
of philosophy.
One
them
successors
tific
in a very
is
terminology
el^o^
or lUa
and
SiaXeKTiKri,
and
Siduoia
and
Ou/jLoeLSh in
the
philosophy
is
phraseology.
due,
and
absolutely devoid
This
technical
is
especially in the
Gorgias, to
of any
earlier dialogues
such as
dramatic form
into
ciently established
was no terminology
and popular
suffi-
to be suited to his
all
other
dislike
pompous
PnEFACE.
xii
That
may
this
effect of
be,
is,
actually the
of any
I think
in
any degree
events
is
which Plato
to render their
entirely
life,
carries
intelli-
conclusions
borrowed
is
at"
almost
part to abstain
nical
systems more
philosophical
his
gible.
all
may
terms,
as
is
far as
though they
therefore
possible
bound on
from
may seem
all
his
tech-
perchance to
however authority may have sanctioned and subsequent usage familiarised us with them.
I
some
difficulty
in a
trifling
literal translation
compared
of Plato,
practicable.
In regard
of the
former,
making
which in
their appearance
PREFACE.
where they seem
least
xiii
always excepted
indeed,
is
Sir'
'my
was
it
in the
Even
forefathers.
titles
at the
dear Sir
'
good Sir
'
worthy
up the
list of those which would nowadays be admitted on
any terms into a friendly conversation; and even
these are by no means adequate representations of
'friend',
the
(h
(h
yevvale,
^aifxovie,
w KaWiare, w apiare, w
Oavixaaie,
fill
jaaKapie,
rest,
courteous addresses.
As
iSeXTiare,
which
Socrates'
and
meaning or
spirit
making the
of the passage in
for retaining
and
indeed
best of
it
justifiable
may be
them
when by
would assume an
Our modern
is
happily
still
more
If
PREFACE.
xiv
sufficiently to
swear by them,
or St So[)liia
might perhaps
"Il/ja
or
"A^n]^
or
'^Aprefxi^
'AOtjva
might
do duty
Apollo
unless
indeed the
As
longer available.
to
is
commoner forms of
the
Am,
ixa
first
suggests itself
Aia,
vr)
tov<s
vri
to be sure appropriate
was harmless
no
modern
and ex-
ears;
what
vvj
in a
emploj^s in his
own
tomed
which
name
mode
of
representation,
my
word' ^by
my
faith'
'upon
PREFACE.
my
XV
fall
As
translation,
it
may
be a
literal
such scholars
would in
all
if
cases
who
sacrifice
from our
earliest
and the
feelings,
and enforced at
My
me
rule
niceties,
Some
in
stif-
the
distinction of the
The
insisted on.
our
own language
however
is
differs in this
particular so far
fact
by the English
For instance
phrase
the verb
is
in the
common
rendered
'
ri^ri
elSov,
perfect.
in which
xvi
is
I'HtlFACK.
ever to do with
we say
saw',
Where
it'.
^I have seen'.
tliink
by anything but the English perfect ? There is a similar difference between the French
and German idioms and our own in the use of these
KaKov, evpov
uficii/ou,
tenses; that
by a
perfect
been
V;
in
is,
and vice
j'ai ete...
versa, as
waren
sie ?
'
have you
*I was...'
writes yiyveaOai
Ho
be';
and
is
and
it
out of
little
of it
will
is
fiable
it is
it
should
possible so to do
my way
to maintain
it
yet
the neglect
justi-
Of minor importance
of the article in rendering
similar phrases
is
ol
Mr
on Demosth. de F. L.
temporal particles such as apri,
7r(o7roT,
had seen
Mr
Shilleto's note,
to
it.
PREFACE.
xvii
subject
Obs.
see
K.
Greek
Buttmann's
(Engl. Transl.)
sciously
TO ce
when the
It
is
Grammar,
Ka\ TTjQo?
this
124.
iJiL(To<s
On
TO. yevY}'
Tov yap
11.
4. 31.
Kkeirrtfv /uiael
T. X.
564 A.
Passing over other idiomatic differences of a simi-
VIII.
lar
there
character,
remains one
point
which
is
more
still
unsettled,
and
what
I believe to
lation of ov
TTclvv,
enter in detail
question
long one,
it
be the truth.
and I
entirely opposed to
may
perhaps find a
fitter
place in the
Appendix \
As
to the aids of
Commen-
had before me
Schleier-
tators,
I have constantly
PREFACE.
xviii
of
Cousin's
many
translation,
looked
wliicb
so literal
and
observation
Schleier-
it
mean
he
extends,
rough
so exact that
of a commentary of no
tli
order
very
as far as
seldom
misses
my
the
precise
may
if I
is,
absolutely worthless.
is
venture to say
so,
Cousin's for
The former
too
flat
and
lifeless
much
at least to
an English reader
to furnish
an expression.
To
a direct translation.
few obligations,
or
for here
a happy turn
obligations
this I
is
have to acknowledge a
of expression.
amount I
perhaps not
But such
direct
followed
is
to say that
the text I
have
Editors, except in
INTRODUCTION.
Self- reverence, self-knowledge, self-control,
Would come
uncalled
And, because
Were wisdom
right
for),
live
is
by without
fear
Tennyson, (Enone.
The
is
somewhat
in-
and at
first
sight desultory,
separately in Part
especial mention.
I.
of his Platonische
cessors,
and a
deserves
Studien,
62
XX
tion
and
o'ood sense.
The Greek
title
pLKrj^^
dpaTpeTTTCKo^,
second
titles,
of tlie diah^gue
though
Diog.
it is
Laert.
is
Vop'yia^,
Vit.
Plat.
irepl Jjtjto-
rj
.59.
Tliese
modera-
final
and
subject assigned
by the
it
title as
its
may when
The term
opposed
and Meno for example with which Schleiermacher places it in immediate connection, belongs to the
class of polemical or dialectical dialogues; in which the object
like the Thesetetus
is
not so
much
up a system,
by the removal of
Of
its object,
by Stallbaum
it;
which form
many
it
of his readers.
English version.
INTRODUCTION,
xxi
two real
sciences, Physics (in its widest sense including Cosmology
and Ontology or Metaphysics) and Ethics, but only in a preparatory and progressive way to determine what they are;
and, whether considered singly or in their mutual connection,
than in the
most
first division,
difficult."
cordingly this
but particularly
Compare general
dialogue
occupies
uniform
less
artificial
and
pretty nearly
al-
Ac-
the same
losophy
for
is
indirect or
and the
dialectical,
that
is
result in
conduct.
527
summary
of
and
them p.
life
toric to
we must
first
this dialogue,
is
is
to
it.
xxii
VLATOS
tlie
(JOUUIAS.
ancient definitions of
it,
as 'the art of
means
of per-
by
practised
its
Sophistical originators
it
in this dialogue,
it
upon
virtue
and
politics
it
to give of themselves
and
profession
by
Plato,
their
practice
writers.
In Protag. 318
E,
''
The
own
pro-
is
own household,
qualify him most effi-
Gorgias,
in
the
dialogue
which enables
of
" has
wisdom and
men
that
name
been telling
p.
me
91
"He
A.
ever so long
is
that
and na-
INTROD UCTION.
and
xxiii
to
call Sophists," is
the reply.
To the same effect it is said. Rep. x. 600 C, that Protagoras of Abdera and Prodicus of Ceos and a host of others
have contrived to get the notion into the heads of their contemporaries that none of them will be able to manage either
his
own house
to carry
them about on
this skill
their heads.
Perm. 285
e^ wp koI top
his pupils, de
Tov<i
/jbeX6T(t)VTa<;
TToXew? KaXoo<;
(f)L\oao(j)'r)Teov
BiotKrjaovaLV,
koX
tcl
Svirep
Ive/ca
{jbavOdvovra^; koX
kolvcl to,
T7]<;
Kal irovrjreov
fcal
tcl
"a man's
Meno 71 E, is
Again,
pupil,
ra roiavra
virtue,"
iKavov
according to Meno,
elvai,
ra
Trj<;
TroXeo)?
life,"
Gorgias'
Trpdrrecv,
and
in so
is
B,
Brj/jioaria
same terms
TTpaTTecv hvvaaOaL
fjuerd
as Protagoras uses
roov IBlcov,
rd
PLATO'S GonaiAs.
xxlv
faculty
of
})ublic
in;iij:igiii;^"
together
afTairs
with
orio's
own."
Of the
rwv
'^o(f)iaTa)v,
20,
X070U9 7rapaKaXovvT(;,
ai)Tol<^
T(t)V
crrrja-av
dyadwv,
afjLe\r]aavTe<;
elvat SiSdaKaXoL.
Themist.
c.
2,
Tr]v
koX
TroXvirpajfiocrvvr)!;
And
irXeove^iaf;
virk-
twv
ravra
Trpd^ecou
The
and teachers
How these
lofty
more
direct state-
The
was made of
ciples
was
their
own advancement by
new
this
art
by
its
dis-
is
white in a
law^-
be employed. That the inculcation of these deceitful artifices was actually one of the objects of these teachers is shown
by the
extracts
treatises
upon
INTRODUGTIOX.
xxv
to us of the reyyai or
now
generally
The
honour.
tov
of
any
to
Protagoras,
considerations
tJttw Xoyov
calumny of Aristophanes,
them was
Kpelrrco
and
no mere
of truth
iroielv is
TipcoTa^yGpov
to persuade at
profession
Arist.
eTrdyyeX/jia,
Rhet.
of
II.
24. 11.
It is this
Gorg.
which
it
when he speaks
of
cc.
is
arts of the
statesman, legislation
justice,
as
the perfumer's,
describes
it
And
tailor's,
and
Aristotle, Rhet.
I.
of
hair2.
7,
his phraseology
d),
"
Hence
rhetoric
statuaries,
who
artists,
as physicians or
who
"But
worse...."
PLATO'S aOROIAS.
xxvi
Thus
of the two
I^Jatoiiic
dia.l()<:^u(;s
is
whicli
in
Rhc.'toilc
hiKaiov
del.
technically as an art
its
it
is
regarded
it
273
thus
D, E,
is
him the
D.
Upon
the
treatment of Rhetoric
to
it is
human
cha-
books.
The fundamental
;!
INTROB UGTION.
xxvii
uncompromising Idealist,
his sublime speculations and with his lofty
unattainable ideal of truth and right ever present to his
mind holding scornfully aloof from the business and pursuits of a world which he disdained, and rebuilding society
from its very foundations in the attempt to carry out his
grand visionary scheme of a perfect Republic acknowledging
no pleasure but the contemplation of truth, and sternly
The
wrapped up in
guislied.
stern
haughty*
all
perfection,
itself to
human
infir-
when
itself
human
tribunals.
c5
ws 0^5^ rfada
uffirep
KOxXlas
UXdrcov,
iirrjpKws
ras
6(ppvi.
And
Heraclides reports (in the same Diogenes, 26) that in his youth he was
modest and sober that he was never seen to indulge in a fit of boisterous or
excessive merriment.
In his mature years he preserved the same character;
most of his laughter is of the sardonic kind, and his humour is shown chiefly
so
in satire.
How
different
'
riATas
xxviii
one, accusation
tlic
it
we
is
aojiaiAS.
in the other:
may
If
be overcome
c.
xi.),
we
have no right to argue from the use to the abuse of anyAgain, in the conflict of human passions and interthing.
ests truth is often unattainable,
which
is
sci-
The probable is therefore assumed as the necessary basis and groundwork of his system.
This premised, we now proceed to inquire whether rhe-
may
is
very unceremo-
who
2,
viously suggested
by others
as containing the
main
gist
and
all of
is
light,
IN TROD UCTION.
xxix
is
flattery,
and the
classification of it
it
as
with
whom
when
it
is
taken in
its
public
life
which
if
rhetoric
is
its
life
is
too apparent to
life.
It is
shown
inci-
it
or principal aim.
if the main purpose of the dialogue be the pracmoral one of contrasting the true and the false objects
In fact
tical
and
by a
would not
desire to differ
as to the
object
life:
but as
all at
little is
members of the
more general terms as I have done, as the true
and false object and rule of life, rhetoric being no doubt taken and put prominently forward as the representative of the latter.
In Bonitz's favour is the
passage, 500 c, but philosophy is dropped in the final summary.
The opinion
VJ.ATaS COWJIAS
XXX
criticism of tlic
}K)])iihir
tliis
great
be
fairly
When
three interlocutors
who
argument are
all
rhetoricians pro-
life
amount
is
as-
and ends
(see p.
conceptions of
state
ship,
all
those
who
and to the fulfilment of the highest functions of citizenand one thoroughly worthy to be so treated by Plato
all this
may
well
make
us pause before
we
this
at the lowest
of
we
Dr Whewell, who
it is
work:X
the main
p.
258.
ii.
i66,
and the
tlie
brief obser-
INTRODUCTION.
xxxi
thread upon which the argument hangs, and the most prominent, if not the most philosophically important, of those
quainted
opinion
for
am
ac-
is
in his review
and traces the contrast between the true and false notions of
the perfection and proper office of the art through the various
But we want no other authority
stages of the discussion.
than the work itself for the determination of the question
It is singular that amidst all the controversy and variety
of opinion to which this question has given rise so little attention^ should have been paid to a passage, already referred
to, in
what
his intention
state clearly
enough
of
^ I may here observe that some of the most recent writers upon the history
Greek philosophy, as Zeller and Butler, have treated the Gorgias with unde-
it;
I suppose because
definite statements
dialogues.
they have not dealt with the Theaetetus in the same way.
Still
Brandis bestows about four pages chiefly made up of quotations to this dialogue.
He
considers the several arguments merely in their ethical bearings, and pro-
it,
withoxit
any particular
upon
xxxii
every
and
otlicr action
employed
occurs,
c.
What
500 C
this amounts
5i':>,
to
p.
all
to
may
and views of
that pleasure
is right,
is
life,
(such as,
into collision.
and danger, exposure and ridicule, are to be cheerfully encountered, and the remedial correction of legal punishment
to be eagerly sought, instead of shunned, with a view to the
end rhetoric
soul's
is
Or
to be subordinate.
interlocutors "who
come
who appear
dramatic dialogue on the model of a five-act play, assume, after a short prologue or introduction in
47
to the
cc. i, 2,
a fivefold division;
cc. 3
20, 21
36,
37
46,
61, 62
plot,
and the
summary of the principal results of the dialogue to " the anapaests which at
the conclusion are wont to express in a few words the fundamental idea of the
Tragedy."
The
utter baselessness
fivefold division to
which
it
gives
of this
fanciful
rise, is easily
278.
and
no considerable length
INTROD UCTIOX.
crates
and
assist
him by
xxxiii
argument.
is
u.
s.
mode
pp. 265
of
268),
p.
263,
'
are distinguished
acknowledgement of moral
right, essentially,
though not
for-
is
if
is
thereby involved
in a contradiction,
wrong
though he
in reality
and yet on the other side a reluctance to deny that right is more fair and noble than wrong.
Plato thus makes him the type of that compromising spirit
which prevails so widely amongst the mass of mankind.
He has never
Video meliora proboque, Deteriora sequor.
thought deeply and seriously upon any question and has no
fixed principles of action; he is ready to take up with any
popular notions, and allows himself to be imposed upon by
the deceitful appearances of good and it soon appears that
he has not even distinguished between real and apparent
power, beUveen doing what one pleases or what seems fit,
to moral considerations,
rr.ATO'S aORGIAFi.
xxxiv
doing
;in(l
tliat wliicli
is
really j^^ood
and
of service to
us,
mon
use of language
In
Callicles'
is
hands
is
changed
he impatiently
of the majority,
who
him from
right,
which
when
is
is
the
rest,
Callicles'
dialogue, the
house at Athens
argument opens
of the
who
is
now on
a second visit
INTROD UCTTOX.
the art of persuasion
from which
it
the
appears that
xxxv
what
is
proba-
argument, that
is
is
art,
The
division of the
first
were what
if it
did.
is
to train
it
men
with rhetoric.
virtue
the conduct of
life,
He
and shows in
detail
how
the principles
ment
the
TTpoolfjiLOp,
On
BLrjyr}ac<;,
this I'easoning-
Trtcrrei?,
it
c2.
xvxvl
7rL\oyo<;
ill
tli(!
tlio
object proposed to
injin
;i
to
encourage
you thereby
tliat
nc([\urQ
is
liini
luis
2.
extracted from
liim
abuse of
it;
it
is
quite possible to
make
by
art, still
chargeable with
of those
the teachers of
who
this,
it
is
sub-
him by Socrates, that a good rhetobe a good man: this is gravely pointed
and Gorgias who makes no attempt to
must
also
out by Socrates,
defend himself
is
nacy of
Callicles or
it
inordinately vain, hot headed, intemperate, prone to exaggerate and moreover devoid of
is
tractable
dialectics.
he
The
INTROD UGTION.
wliat true
power
and what
consists in,
xxxvii
is
had
fallen,
and
judice, Polus
show
to
now
his
own
own
some pre-
after
awkward attempt on
his part to
and
and
false art,
itself
and
justifies
the
this
dialogue
position assigned to
it
at the
head of
The
series,
and
his second
division
soul
may
tailor's,
hairdresser's,
^ dxpoTTOiiKri,
cookery,
is
fit
it
for
it
professes to
correct the
to
PLATO'S CORGIAS.
xxxviii
body and
Lastly, wliicli
tour
ol"
fact
in
is
tli(!
ntate of In-altlj
and vigour.
tlu in are
medicine,
legislation,
justice;
gymmere
cajolery,
whom
those
fol-
lowing proportion
1.
Body,
KOfifJLUTiK-ri
2.
gymnastics
Some
sophistic
Body.
Soul.
legislation
of,
Soul.
cookery medicine
:
rhetoric
justice.
no explanation.
iwfioOerc/cr}, legislation, is
the principal
branch of the duty of a statesman or irokiTtKr), whose proper
office
to train
it
is,
as subsequently
citizens
committed to
his charge
(imperfectly)
represented as a
sham
p. 8,
that sophistic
is,
as a remedial
Of Justice,
BtKaiocruvij,
IXTROD UCTION.
standing here for hUj], or rather hUr)
xxxix
BLopdcorcfcy],
have
spoken in the note to the translation p. 465, c. 20. Compare Gorg. 478 A, B, which determines the precise meaning.
Stallbaum points out in his note on p. 464 B, that BtKatocrvvij
is
elsewhere spoken of as an
Erast.
137
'art';
Rep.
I.
332
c, D,
and
D.
its
and gratify
all
their passions
PLATO'S (JOWJIAS.
^1
the
21
may be
24-.
to choose th''
apparent j)ower
his
utlier,
despot
cc.
evil,
;iimI
<(()0(l
in
is
weakest
reality tlie
by
universally nothing
with good
is
which
really desirable
is
not attended
must
good in this case means just
be measured by
if
acts
right
and right
are
they are good, if wrong evil
Polus
now
final
25.
as
a
and conclusive argument tric.
umphantly quotes the case of Archelaus the usurper and
tyrant, who had earned by a series of the most atrocious
crimes not punishment but the throne of Macedonia, on
which he was then seated in the enjoyment of the greatest
happiness, that is splendour and prosperity, c. 26.
Upon
results,
this standard
is
now
of all
if
is
in
he be brought to
c.
28
init.
To supply a
the half-thinker
suffer
more
wrong
is
is
first
luorse,
made
to
kcxklov, to
disgraceful, alcryj^ov.
do wrong
This he
is
is
fouler, uglier,
quite ready to do
own
opinions,
for,
and
INTRODUCTION.
being in fact the representative of
phical views of happiness in
he
is
xli
tlie
popular nnpliiloso-
relation to morality,
its
life
though
however attained
is
the
is
yet
On
Dr Whewell's
The
common
validity of
it
rests
upon the
ii.
195
197.
definition of koXov
and
The standard
on the other hand is
of 'good'
and
utility or
'
one's
bad,'
own
III. 8. 5, 6.
dyaOov and
interest.
IV. 6. 9,
Ka/cov,
Socrates
goes so
But
in
far
Xenophon's Memorabilia,
as to identify dyadov and
utility or one's
own
interest
may
PLATO'S GOIiCIAS,
xlii
be regarded
self-interest
good
and
in
iwd
which leads
it is
Tliere
aspects.
difi'tiront
men
is
an (Mdiglitfnfjd
and abiding
and elsewhere
injustice, however
in
tliis
it
may
is
477
A,
better than
its
harmony
as is more
human
constitution
and there
is
another and
is
when he admits
that to do
wrong
is
ugly or
and therefore
base he is, so
curreiit
which
sions by
which he
is
He
to represent
INTRODUCTION.
xliii
and
moral obligation, and the inconsistency of the principles which
men instinctively approve with those by which their pracand it is left for his
tice and conduct are actually regulated
successor Callicles to justify this selfish practice by theory,
and in so doing to reject all notions of duty and morality.
The second paradox that Socrates undertakes to prove
(4<76 a) is that impunity in wrong doing is the gi'eatest
life
'
'
greater than
suffering punishment,
or
being
It is
of
all
evils,
shown by induction, c. 82, that when any act is performed it is performed upon some person or thing, that agent
necessarily implies patient, and that the quality or properties
of the act ai-e the same in agent and patient, or that the
effect is of the same nature and character in the patient as
first
consequently
if
a judge
inflicts
upon an offender the punishment as received by the patient is likewise just, and if so /caXov, and if
Punishment therefore if just is good for the
KoXov, dya66v.
The good or benefit which he receives, c. 33, is
recipient.
correction and moral improvement which is effected by the
removal of the evil that had lodged in his soul and corrupted
and of the three restorative arts that apply a remedy
it
to the diseased condition of a man's mind body and estate,
trade medicine and corrective justice, as injustice and vice,
just punishment
'
it
follows again,
rids us of it infinitely to
So
far therefore
the wicked
as the sick
man
man
be preferred to
all
other blessings.
justice,
be rid of his
^ On this false analogy, which in fact vitiates the entire reasoning, for if
punishment does not cure or eradicate vice, as the physician's art disease, if no
xliv
wickedness
render
liini
tlie g'l'eatest
miserable.
of"
all
And
must needs
calamities which
now
is,
the disease
of the
soul
comp.
Rep. X. 608
E,
foil.
the
man:
'justice'
good health
is
he be
fit
man
afflicted
in
with a
incurable.
is
to apply a
and
palliate iniquity
not
is
and avert
from oneself and friends its due penalty, but rather to bring
our hidden crimes to light and expose the guilty to the
may
correction which
591
operate as a cure\
Comp. Rep.
ix.
A, B.
moral improvement
fails,
I have else-
31.
See note on
Translation, p. 54.
1
In the interpretation
of the passage,
480 E
481 B,
by the
all
punish
literally,
careful
and
attri-
may seem
may
encouan enemy we
we must be
first
sight
INTROD UCTIOK.
This brings us
down
to the
xlv
end of
c.
3G, p.
481
and
B,
now
steps
He
third stage.
first
its
able,
It
soul.
is
generally admitted the principle of doing good to one's friends and evil to one's
enemies as a
maxim
and
this is
the points of difference between heathen and Christian morals; but none
of
all
of
them
it
may
safely be affirmed
we
desired to do an
which we should
enemy
proceed.
all
The
case
is
is
the
it
way
//
in
would be
jSXctTrretJ'
'ipyov,
dWov
ovbiva,
dWd
PLATO'S GORCIAS.
xlvi
it
is
to be their
hjrd
in
The
sition
and
triumph of
in depicting the
tliis
natural right
when the stronger has shaken off the chains imposed upon
him by society and its conventions, when like a horse that has
broken loose he has burst his bonds and flung his rider and
escaped from human control, and rises in his might to assert
his natural superiority, and trample under foot the feeble
restraints that
bound him,
c.
cc.
40, 41,
life
de-
liability
to every insult
rhetorician or politician.
The theory
different;'
lies ra-
of society
Thrasymachus,
His theory
is
it is
true, says
himself expresses
it,
p.
terms in which
536 that
'
nothing about
justice
is
'
Mr
right.'
Grote
the interest of
own advantage.
A man is just for the advantage of another, not for his own
he is weak, cannot help himself, and must submit to that
dominant power prescribes as being
for its
INTROD UCTION.
xlvii
But surely
commonwealth, commands.'
them:
ri^^ht
must
reside
its
own
interests, that
is,
and
is
duced
is
the
effect pro-
still
men
to respect
and observance
them at
his pleasure, either by natural right which renders him
superior to all conventions, or (which seems in fact to come
to much the same thing) because he has himself introduced
and can deal with them as he pleases: in both alike they are
mere human inventions and result in the established order of
society ^
1
But
A question
it
may be
whose opinion
of this kind
i.
two
theories, at
words
of
E,
his text.
483
ii.
p. 464,
A, without
Da
in
them
note kk^
comment, as
PLATO'S CORGIAS.
xlviii
tlio Ri'pulylic;,
1.
]).
*^S<S
to
resuincd
tlicj i;ii(l;
in
Ji
more niodt-
3G7 C
In Xenophon's Memorabilia, IV. 4. 14, Hippias argues
similarly about justice and law, that they vary at different
times and places, and are therefore purely arbitrary and con-
sentence,
p.
C,
IT^B.
is
2,
pp. loo
E.
and therefore
liable to
every one has a right to get what he can and keep what he
can get
who can
"
who have
was revived by
New
zuriickfiihrt. &c.
And
f'gain, p.
470, in
Und wenn
allerdings das
And
Schleierniacher, Tn-
Thema
des Thras)'maciios
'
all
essential difference
'
i.
p.
Thrasymachus
?.6o,
ist ed.
in question.
am
bestimmtesten enJlich wird diese Ansicht, und namentlich...von de;n Sophistcnschuler Kallikles entwickelt.
::
IN TROD UCTION.
a few fragments
summary
of
it
remain.
still
is
xlix
Fragmm.
supplied by Lactantius
Fragm. XV.
That men established for
of law or rights in conformity with their
"
say,
vill
xvili.
in these
The
terms.
themselves a system
interests, that is to
own advantage
of nature to seek
is
it is
no such thing
the height of
folly, since it
who hold
All people
Romans
make
if
is
who
in
ever
themselves,
they
mean
to
just, that is to
wrong
restitution of
made out
it,
or to do
suffering injuries."
PLATO'S COIUJIAS.
of iiidividnals
society,
in
Compare
in Engl. p. 17.
p.
52.
each against
right
and justice
(that
Hobbes had
man
all;
"
is
nriaintained
an universal war of
no such thing as natural
is
is,
these notions being only creations of civil society, and deriving their sanction entirely from
the
civil
See
ruler."
p.
122
Ibid. p. 124.
is
occupied chiefly
uncompromising freespokenness
with which he has stated his theory, and the judicious advice
which he has so kindly and gratuitously bestowed upon him.
in quizzing Callicles for the
Fun
and
to all appearance
is
its
seems to require no other justification than the humour that pervades it of its introduction here, though the
it
argument be not
proposed
directly
whom
advanced thereby.
for discussion.
The argument
'
superior
is
mean ?
'
INTRODUCTION.
li
and not
Callicles at once
he.
this,
44,
c.
fji(t)Tepo<^,
resides in practical
It
is
soon found,
c.
wisdom and
sagacity, skill
and knowledge.
cles finally
he
really
means
lies in
crco(j)po(rvvri
made
is
in-
or self-control
is
dons
all
reserve,
and plainly
Hereupon
Callicles aban-
all his
duty and
desires ^
which
is
therefore
in absolute power.
Socrates,
c.
47, after
speaking so boldly
first, cc,
47, 48, in
two fables
This
is
what Demosthenes
calls, rf}
yacrpl
and
de Cor.
296.
fZ2
PLATO'S (JOWJIAS.
lii
Pytha<:,n)roan.s (see
of
lli(>
condition of
note B.
m,
iriaii
in
llic
draws a picture
Apjx'jjdix),
ail his
liis
lif(.'
in tlie con-
hll:
hut finding as
by
Callicles,
to the good.
The treatment
It follows
and desire
all alike
worthy of satisfaction.
The views here put forw^ard in the person of Callicles are
in fact those of Aristippus and the Cyrenaics, upon whom
is
alike
I.
120,
Some
foil.
of
them seem
to
fjuY)
jjbrjhe
^Siou
elvai
though
The same
is
spoken of
INTRODUCTION.
liii
may be
The
p. 23.
Ed.
1.
up
normal harmony of
condition.
its
But we
relieve
and a want
is
painful,
an appetite we feel
so, but the two cease simultaneously, as in drinking the thirst
or pain and the pleasure that arises from drinking by which
that pain is relieved, 497 A and therefore pleasure and pain
since they coexist in the same subject and the same part of
it cannot be identical with good or evil.
The same view of the nature of the pleasures of sense is
expressed in a more dogmatic form in the Philebus, p. 31 D.
;
Pain
is
there
made
harmony, in the
filling
lution.
Compare 32
pain
similarly
is
B,
up
42
referred
C,
and Timseus,
by
p.
this disso-
64
D,
where
liv
irap
rj/jilv
ture/ that
irapa
to
natural order,
Tra^o? aK<yeiv6v
is
TO,
584
C,
Xayi]v.
TOiavra
//,?)
to
na-
(j)vcnv
further
details are
Kev(t)aei<^
TretOcofjieOa
tcv6<;
KaOapdv
airaX-
583 B
IX.
586 C,
In the scale of goods which
cussions of the Philebus,
is
66
and imagination
and
affec-
tions,
all
greater and
less,
as opposed
are
the
52
p.
versa."
Again,
when
Callicles
INTRODUCTION.
tinction of
if
men
tage
seek
that
or,
Iv
it
to be avoided because
is
if
Consequently
they abstain.
it,
human
action,
c.
it is
feel
is
end of
54.
laid
good
name of rhetoric, the thread on which the entire argument is made to hang, cc. ^Q 58. Socrates is now enabled
the
may be
whom
and
'flattery,'
though
it
is
mob
it
is
addressed,
of
philosophy or
(Phsedr.
public
e),
and the
only genuine
art
of words
qualification
for
life.
This
follows,
261
dialectics,
to be
justification of Plato's
own
affairs,
riATO'S aORGlA.S.
Ivi
to have reproached
177
172 c
c,
life,
And
end.
are stated
in
express Plato's
still
after hear-
y iOiXcov koI
kciov
This apology which Plato here makes for himself, and the annomicement
out,
intentions.
his
any long time at least" after his residence at Megara. Professor Thompson
(quoted by Dr Donaldson, Continuation of Miill. Hist. Gr. Lit. ii, 51
54) in
accordance with the usual opinion, derived from Diogenes Laertius, that Plato
returned to Athens, after his first absence, in 395 B.C., fixes the date of com-
position at
an
residence at
Megara and
earlier period,
between
his return
from
his travels
after his
INTRODUCTION.
disguised
Ivii
own
ease
comfort and pursuits to a possible public duty, with a considerable admixture of spite and scorn for the existing
is
paramount over
all
deemed
it
improving
to be, it
it,
harmony
(E,ep. ix.
but are unable to apply their own rules to their own individual circumstances.
With
Gorg. 502 D.
PLATO'S GORGJAS.
Iviii
Continuing,
c.
true rule of
life,
Socrates, after
And
and
therefore
is
his public
to
aim
at
becoming good
so.
profession,
lies
which
is
to
make men
is
have been
to be prefeiTed to
immediate
gi-atification
them.
Next
follows,
c.
59,
by the analogy
them
to his end,
all
made
it is
all
that he does
this order
is
sub-
and harmony
who
INTRODUCTION.
lix
way
chastise them,
tician's
which
object;
and
is
the only
so it is not
in
and
control,
which
is
but the
a man's
c.
He now
suggests,
c.
it
any
error he falls into, and by the intervention of the Deus ex
machina (Gorgias), he at length is persuaded to do.
In chapter 62 he next proceeds to recapitulate in a summary way the results of the preceding argument; and the
general conclusion
first
is
criticise
human
ment
in the
soul,
titude,
ab3<ppoveiv.
ffco^pocrivr) is
(ru}(ppoov,
its derivation,
imply
the four.
(ppovTjffis,
And by
Ix
when a man
pain or danger
posites of this,
is
soul's vice
and lead
p.
summed
In opposition to
up.
to misery instead
507
cc.
c.
62, 63,
may be
Callicles' position
that
it
due subordination and arrangement are necessary to, or rather constitute, the well-being and perfection of everything
in art and nature by these principles heaven and earth, the
;
Gods and human society, are held together, and from this
the whole universe receives its name {Koafio^). In man
these principles are called KoaiMioTr}^, accxjipoavvrj and this
is that temperance or self-control which necessarily brings
with it the other virtues, and unites all our faculties, physical mental and moral, in an orderly and harmonious coHence it
operation, tending to one end, the supreme good.
appears that orderliness and subordination, 'due measure'
proportion or 'law,' are necessary to the development and
maintenance of the integrity and perfection of the human
nature, as of all other things and that licentiousness, which
introduces disorder and is accompanied by irXeove^la, a grasping rapacious dissatisfied spirit, a desire for inequality, and a
principle of insubordination, and thereby thwarts and mars
this harmonious development, so far from being good and
;
contributing to happiness,
is
wrong
is
INTRODUCTION.
Ixi
gias,
must be
508 c.
^co(j)po<7vv7), which stands in this dialogue for the principle of order, the supreme regulative and controlling authority in man's moral constitution, takes here the place
and
of virtue.
which
is
assigned to
St/carocrvvrj
tire
machine.
Compare
effect is described as
also.
the apixovia,
E,
where
this
of the soul, y
views of man's nature in
^v/xcfxopia,
avrS
iroXiTeia:
dialogue.
gias
may be
of the Gor-
the discourse
(Socrates'
recapitulation)
becomes a
presents
namely,
constitution,
is,
at a
soul of
man
as a
but had not yet discerned clearly what were the
component elements
of that constitution."
to this conception
PLATO'S aownAS.
ixii
It first
or to irepalvov, or ireTrpaafiivov.
down
})y lay-
independent of the
rest.
The
first
cause, which
is
in-
troduction of the Trepa?, the limit, the principle of the definite or determinate, or, in a wider sense, of order syinmetiy
harmony
inchided
that
all
In
The
cause.
is
it
.is
/cat tJttov,
corrected by the
and
from
the
blending
of the two
introduction of the irepa^,
in
the
human
Thus
bodily conproceeds all that is good.
all
is
flat,
seasons;
and
the Laws,
TTCLVTCOV
It
is
IV.
so
716
C,
God himself
is
called
fMeTpioTij^;,
fieTpou
')(^pr}lXaT(OV.
INTRODUCTION,
Ixiii
The
v\r],
aireipov appears
amongst
his four
r,v
elvaty
^vas to he;
being.
and
fulfils,
that
and the
these converts
them
its idea,
defect,
resides,
is,
and the
irepa^,
which by
with
its
its
excess
of the mean, to
vTrep/SoXr)
and
/uueaov,
eXXecyjn,<;
in
which virtue
error.
To return
In
to the Gorgias.
c.
64 Socrates
first replies
which
Callicles
dialogue.
A defence
against this
is
to be
just and
what is unjust
(in the study, that is, of Ethical Philosophy), since no one does
wrong intentionally and with his eyes open, c. 65; protection
against suffering wrong, c. 66, can be secured only by making
oneself like the ruling powers by setting oneself from one's
earliest youth to copy their manners, adopt their feelings and
opinions, and in short assimilate one's mind and character
;
is
PLATO'S
kiv
(JO IKHAS.
way
the only
one's safety.
tliis is
is
a necessity
it still
is
rhetoric
if
to
it
of that
is
in virtue of its
number
u.
In proving the
s.
p. 258.)
first
e/^ooz^
/^a/co?:
is
elsewhere expressed in
been already admitted in the course of the disHe refers to c. 24, p. 468 c. foil., where
cussion with Polus.
it is argued that good is always a man's real object, or that
when a man does what he really wishes, he does what is
observes, has
good.
ever
series
meaning may
its
exact
therefore
be, is asserted
in
358
c, it is
some sense
It occurs Protag.
is
or other
78
B,
and,
may be
the Timseus, 86
I),
that
It
may
from an
INTRODUCTIOX.
Ixv
rod
acofjuaro'^
koX airaihevTov
all sorts
ment
of virtue
is
dom
and
And
life,
of virtue
further, Tim.
87 A,
"and besides all this... when the forms of government, and
the doctrines current, and the language held in public and in
most
vice, is
explicitly affirmed.)
all so
made
most involuntarily."
Again it may be a deduction from the ethical theory that
virtue is nothing but knowledge: and in this sense it stands
doubtless in the Protagoras, which was written while Plato
was still under the immediate influence of the teaching of
Socrates, who as is well known from Xenophon Aristotle and
and other authorities held this view of the nature of virtue.
From
this theory
it
so
is
unintentional;
ill.
"for," as
9,
4,
"all
who
else in preference to
stand
them
maxim
is
criticised
and rejected by
ill.
PLATO'S (JOUaiAS.
Ixvi
(Bckk.), VT.
Moral.
that
T)
lilt.,
The
1. G.
I.
criticism
pronouncing vice to
ill
compare Ma^p-i.
in one word amounts to this,
be invohmtaiy Socrates over-
the
a.
a/?%r;
1),
may be
and
end of
dZeaiTOTOv,
r}V Tt/iioov
efcaaro'i e^ei.
904
C, T579
Ka(TT(ov
wv
TYjV
aTTa?
And Laws
X.
r)fjiCbV
rd^; atVta?.
"^VXV^) ravry
rj/jLoov &<?
As
ottj)
yap dv
a')(ehov efcdcrrore
to ttoXv.
dperrj, Plato's
tl<;
e^'
BiBaKTov
rj
INTROD UCTIOX.
Ixvii
the Meno, are very various and puzzling, and might seem
Tov
In the Timseus,
(r(vfjLaTO<;
p.
86
kol aTraiSevTOV
again 87b, wv
D,
he says hia
rpocjyrjv 6 KaKb<;
ylyverai
fcaKo'';,
and
hi
7rpo0vfn]TOV
jmy^v
otttj
KaKiav TOvvavTiov
e 2
PLATO'S GORCIAS.
Ixviii
body, Tim. 80
D already
(quoted,
and mind'
and
(llcpublic);
Tim.
u.
In
8G, 87.
s.
without a
and capable
highest perfection
its
it
instructors.
cannot exist
knowledge of the realities of things, and therefore requires a thorough philosophical training and insight
into truth (Phasdo and Republic). Philosophy and education
it is
full
when no
favourable conditions
to encourage
is
(^acTLv
7rLcrTrjjuLr)<i
VTc06VTe<;
(paal
elvai.
a(j>6i<i
with
Si
ivTcOivac,
its
true
oliav tiv<;
irov ovk
olov
meaning
ivouarj'^
TV(j)\ol<;
office
eirayyeWo-
iv
rfj
'^V')(rj
ocpOaXfioU
o'^lv
and capacity^
cerned.
a certain
To
mind
is
con-
evcpv'i'a,
is essential.
conclusion, in which
knowledge
is
it
is
The same
mates that the doctrines upon the connection of virtue and knowledge, which
the dialogue is really intended to convey, represent the opinions held by Plato
at this period,
was
still
i. e.
Dr Whewell
assigns
it.
But
if
the opinions intended amount to nothing more than that true \irtue must be
based on philosophical knowledge of the true and good and cannot exist with-
INTRODUCTION.
Ixix
far
away,
all
we have
that seems to be
meant
perhere,
and determine
And now we
it
cc.
69
by
Callicles
78.
fail
As the
life
starting point
first
and
all
modes
must be
to
is,
out
it,
life:
"over against
Dr WheweU
it is
&c."
to all appearance
accidental) to the passage from the Republic, Bk. vii, quoted in the text, which
to:
this
views entertained upon the question by Plato in the fully developed maturity of his philosophical creed.
I'LATO'S aORCIAS.
Ixx
wliicl)
tliat
he can ren-
There
is
accordingly an art
of"
is
Politics
in
and
some proof of their qualifibefore they are entrusted with any public functions
cations
and
this
in
is
fact
which teaches what are the true objects and rule of life, and
by what means this moral improvement may be attained,
cc.
69, 70.
brought to
respect as statesmen
gress
made by
light.
.pro-
this all
his
bite,
so
and Pericles
condemned
w^as
to death.
really trained in
INTROD UCTIOK
Ixxi
justice
ship than the baker the tavern-keeper or the cook can pro-
perly claim to
the
fulfil
office of
pular approbation
is
no
men who
are the
escape
all
all
has reached
its
However
crisis.
in
who
are
any case
it
is
just as
c.
74.
compensation
this case
certain,
is
condemned by public
if
the service
cc.
7o, 76, to p.
oij,
and 171b,
Kal 6
25,
cro(pLa-Tr)s
foil.
demand
is
really
520
65
a,
2.
is
E.
21:
xP'^/Z^ciTfo-TTjs
^crrt 70,/)
i]
and
their profes-
ao<f)i<TTtKT} (paivo/xivr}
and
opinion, because in
of a pecuniary
is
;
dXV
ovk
ao<p[a
oiiarjs,
J'LATCfS aORCTAS.
Ixxli
man
"Tlie
nion
still,"
convinced against
it
liis
now appears
tliat Callicles*
7G.
The two
Socrates
finally contrasted.
now
man
and present who has true notions of what Politics are and what public duty means. Any
one however who like him really aims at the improvement
of his fellow-citizens must expect unpopularity, if not persecution and death: he will be like a physician on his trial
before a jury of children to whom he has given much necesin Athens, or nearly so, past
nought or misunderstood
he
all his
pleas
what he did
will
be
be accused
(as
So-
will
the
old,
and
he
of his innocence
death
is
terrible to
will fear
and the coward; the only real evil and the real object of
dread is injustice and wickedness, and to go with a soul laden
fool
77, 78.
cc.
in
dition of the soul in the other world after its separation from
and
Then the
true nature
is
complishments and worldly advantages, rank wealth splendour talents personal beauty, by which men's eyes are dazzled and her true condition disguised, when she stands thus
naked face to
and depravity
brought to
Judge and
light,
then
all
her corruption
it will
be the turn
IN TROD UCTION.
Ixxiii
'
they
may
was threatened with by Callicles if he neglected the cultivation of rhetoric as an instrument of self-defence, whilst the
philosopher who has " minded his own business and not meddled with other people's affairs" will be approved by the
Judge and sent to dwell in the Isles of the Blest.
And so with a brief summary of the conclusions to which
the argument has led them, and renewed exhortations to
is
brought
to a close.
The myth
Cosmogony
is
one of four, or
five if
we
include the
The immortality
of the soul,
men
upon
in another
which
is
neces-
human mind
Tlie
myth
and to
fall
c, is
men
after this
life.
The
pas-
riATO'S aOUGIAS.
Ixxiv
of the mythologist
that they
embody
and the
The notions
The representation
there
is
here
little
that
myth
of the
the
original in
is
From
these two
for assigning
an
is
any
if
whole dialogue
animated by a youthful
but the
spirit of fun,
here
and
there, one
Ivi.
395
B. c.
^
and
his first
first
i.
p. 68,
is,
in-
travels
in
B. C.
Bk.
ii.
i.
INTRODUCTION.
As
to the degree
Ixxv
tale,'
though
Callicles will
probably regard
it
as a
mere myth, c59 dXTjdrj yap ovra (tol Xefw a /ubeWco Xeyeiv.
At the conclusion of it he expresses himself with less cer" All this very likely seems to you to be a
tainty, 527 A.
mere fable, like an old wife's tale, and you look with contempt upon it. And there would be no wonder in your doing
so, if by any research w^e could find anything truer and
better." And in the Phaedo, 114 D foil., he says that no man
of sense would maintain the exact truth of the description of
the other world that he has been giving still he thinks that
such a state of things is in conformity with reason and what
ought to be, and the probability of such reward of virtue and
punishment of vice is sufficient for a man to stake his hopes
of the future upon. And much the same kind of conviction of
the general, though not particular, truth of such representa;
tions, as sufficient to
is
of the Re-
seems that
myth
life,
c.
as I
that
soul,
the aim
life,
adopted
is
meant
mode
of representation
mythical form
PLATO'S GOROIAS.
Ixxvi
with
my
On
state,
own.
the proofs of
it,
i.
12
15.
it,
INTRODUCTION.
Of
the
Ixxvii
Dramatis Persons,
GoRGiAS
is
gentleman of about 75 or 80
as
427
Foss, De Gorgia Leon-
calls for
On
B. c.
he
is
now
visit.
PoLUS
and famulus, young hot and impetuous, 1^609 KoX 6^v<;, forward and conceited to the very verge
of presumption
extremely like Thrasymachus in the Republic, whose general views of life and conduct coincide
pretty nearly with his own
and quite unable to understand
a distinction or see a difficulty. He has caught all the graces
and affectations of his master s new prose style, and has all
Gorgias' ostentation without his courtesy and moderation in
is
his disciple
expressing himself
1
Of Polus'
said in
And
so
intellectual character
he plays
his part^
xl.
foU.
PLATO'S GORCIAS.
IxKviii
ClITlilREPIlON
is
cures for
him the
The character
epithet of
of
fxaviK6<;.
Callicles
is
much more
fully exhibited
and
risive
is
therefore of a
new
As a means
of attaining this
study worthy of a
man
recommended by
Socrates, he
INTRODUCTION.
Ixxix
see Rep.
doctrines
is
ii.
358
E, foil,
the
own
and advantage is the only true end and rule of life, to which he
gives expression in its most undisguised and offensive form
and in the most uncompromising terms.
might
is
interest
SocKATES is
the Platonic Socrates; perhaps
the completest and most highly finished portrait in the
entire range of dramatic literature of one of the most extraordinary men, hero, saint (saint after the fashion of the fifth
Lastly,
human
with
all his
odd
good-temper, his
peculiarities, his
mock
he
all
is
word
whom
hints took
its special
sense
whether
in religion
others, one of
it
whom
agrees per-
with the known opinions of Protagoras and others of the early Sophists.
ixxx
PLATO'S aonaiAH.
I will there-
who
is
to us as one
whom we
have seen and heard and conversed with ? who has presented
the scenes in which he always plays the principal part with
such perfect liveliness and fidelity that we seem ourselves to
be looking on and listening to the argument as it turns and
winds through its devious course, and find it hard to believe
that such a drama as the Phsedo, or the Symposium, or the
Phaedrus, or the Gorgias,
'
is
Philosophical Dialogue
'
and
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Aye but
Soc.
here
to blame, because
is
my
he forced
me
friend Chserephon
to stay loitering in
the market-place.
No
matter,
Socrates: as
hear Gorgias?
Cheer.
To be
our being
here.
Cal.
house
mind
1
Thank
you, Callicles.
conversing with
i.
Act
us?
for
Well,
To
p.
447
C-
PLATO'S GO no 7AS.
gentleman
is
that
may
vvliat is
The
professes to teach.
lie
deliver, as
you
say, at
and wliat
art,
some future
it
he
time.
That
the address that he gave us.
Cal.
Socrates,
Soc.
Cheer.
Cheer.
he
it.
is.
Why
Boc.
so glad to hear
Who
Boc.
c. 2.
am
448
Gorgias.
fact,
many
that for
j)ro-
tell
you
me any new
question.
Then
Clieer.
presume you
ing, Gorgias.
You may
Gor.
you
please, Chse-
you
like,
rephon.
Yes, 'egad, and upon
Polus.
me
too, if
Chsere-
rCjv
hZov
Chsereplion,
'6vTwv.
who
are
quitting
it.
t2v hdov
Upon
6ptcjv
meet
Callicles' invitation
Callicles
and
his
party
who
are just
is
carried on.
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
Pol.
enough
for
do
if I
it
well
you?
Not
Cheer.
at
all.
your wish,
is
answer me.
Ask away.
Pol.
I will.
Cheer.
art as his
proper to
the other?
No
Pol.
doubt
Then
Cheer.
would.
it
in calling
Pol.
Cheer.
him?
Plainly a painter.
Pol.
And
Clieer.
lies?
call
as
it is,
what
is
to give
him
in
consequence ?
Chserephon, there are
Pol.
many
amongst mankind
arts
for it is experi-
by chance
it
and
in each of these
is
one,
and
men
them
so is a
art,
the want
participate various
in the best
member
of
whom
of the noblest
of all professions \
This
adopts
followers,
The
is
Mr
no
caricature, as
Dr Whewell
{Platonic Dialogues,
ii.
171),
who
Grote's views aboitt Plato's relation to the early Sophists and their
insinuates:
it
is
literal
first
clause
Script, p, 87;
another of his peculiarities in the use of the poetical word alQva for ^iov.
It
displays besides a rhetorical figure, of which Polus seems to have been him-
12
4
c. 3.
aS'oc.
is
Polus
not
fulfil-
appearance, Gorgias,
still
however he
is
ChaTephon.
Gov.
Boc.
He
seem
doesn't
to
me
exactly to
answer the
rather what
is
lectical) conversation.
Pol.
How
Soc.
Because, Polus,
art Gorgias
Socrates
so,
swering what
Pol.
of all
when Chserephon
master
is
of,
it is.
Why,
didn't
answer that
it
Soc.
did.
Gor.
Soc.
Gor.
me what
you
before,
The
Are
then to
Aye a good
'
I boast
call
one,
myself
you a rhetorician ?
Socrates, if you please
to be,' as
Soc.
Gor.
Then pray
dWoi
dXXcjv AXXojs,
Homer
call
says.
do.
to
words
ifxTretpiQv ifnreipcos,
and
by Polus in
his art.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Soc.
So then are we
Go7\
Yes, I certainly
make
this
not only
profession,
Boc.
the
Gorgias, to finish
are
now
talking
point
Come
me
you.
Gov.
my
best to
this again
make them
is
For in
as short as possible.
to,
fact
that no
than myself.
That's exactly
Soc.
precisely
what
future time.
Go7\
Well, I will do so
and you
you never
Come
then.
what
of all things
is
is it
else
an orator
as
weav-
Gor.
Boc.
Yes.
And
music, again,
Gor.
Yes.
Boc.
of tunes
You
are
{Complacently)
it
very
You
me
c. 4.
PLATO'S GORGIAH.
No.
Boc.
Then
Certainly not.
8oG.
But
to understand
it
medicine I mean,
make men
able to understand as
Gov.
Necessarily.
Bog.
Then medicine
Gov.
Yes.
Bog.
Gov.
does.
Bog.
to speak.
Yes.
Of course
Got.
of,
still it
And
^OQ.
ing
Gov.
Gov.
450
with words
Precisely.
dition of bodies
all
Gov.
Certainly.
SoG.
And moreover
those, that
is,
So
SoG.
Then why
it
name
is
the object of
appears.
in the world don't
when they
you
are about
call
'
all
the rest
words,' if 3^ou
Gor.
ledge
art.
Gor.
words
is
each particular
give the
the case
is,
Because, Socrates, in
all
manual operations
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
arts,
we
Yes.
But
Soc.
haven't
deed none at
some
I believe
have produc-
some
all;
in-
might be
and sculpture
and many others. That is the kind which you seem to
have in view, when you say that rhetoric has no connection
carried out even in silence; such as painting
with them.
Isn't it
You
Gov.
take
my
meaning
perfectly, Socrates.
none at
trifling
all,
as one
degree
may
very
'
Quite true.
But
I don't at all
mean
to call
produced by words
rhetoric
c. 5.
PLATO'S GOliaiAS.
451
And
Got.
is
perfectly just.
c. 6
Then
Soc.
let us
my
question.
For as rhetoric
and there are others also of the same kind, try to explain
to me what it is in words upon which rhetoric operates in
producing its effects; suppose, for instance, any one were
to ask me about any one you please of the arts I just now
mentioned what is the art of numeration, Socrates ? I should
tell him, as you said just now, that it is one of those that
produce their effects by words. And if he were further to
inquire, what are those about? I should say that it is .one
of those which are about (have for their object) the even
and odd, the whole series of each of them, whatever the numAnd if again he were to ask, And
ber may amount to.
reckoning, what art do you call that ? I should reply that
this likewise is
And
words.
ject?
he were to ask
still
further,
what
is
its
by
ob-
drawn
is
if
all else'
and the odd; but there is just this amount of difference between them, that the art of reckoning or arithmetic takes
into consideration the relative as well as the absolute pro-
perties
provisions, to
approved.
add others
In the
of his
Kaddirep
rrj
\p7i<pi<T/Ji.a
povXrj ^5o|e.
dis-
usually
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
my replying,
processes
are the
'
to say,
all
And what
Socrates? I should
tell
him
is
to say, their
relative velocities.
Gov.
Bog.
you
see,
give force to
Gov.
operations
by words.
tell
me what
and
Isn't it?
is
that which
and the
effect
It is so.
Then
Soc.
is
happens,
is
all
Wliat of
all
human
things, Socrates,
best.
enumerated,
how
that health
is
best of
all,
7.
the
is
to be born
mentioning this?
Soc.
lies in all
My
art that
is
If then I
is
deceiving you
What
men
be anything
have than health?
likely,
PLATO'S a ORGIAS.
10
And
again after
if
him the
if
be,
my
A professor
business
to
And
sons.
say,
is
would
art
than
to
mine
should
of gymnastics, he
make men
I in
to the other,
business?
handsome
strong and
my
in their per-
consider, Socrates,
them
all.
Do
pray
is
any
He
should say^to
would say
ness.
We
How
blessing to
yes.
And
what's your
man
that
A man
name?
of busi-
mankind? we
shall say.
Of course
I do,
he will
Aye, but Gorgias here contends that his own art is the
source of greater good than yours, we should say.
Plainly
reply.
make
be.
Come
answer.
And what
is
this
good?
let
Gor.
is
the judges
in
men
an assembly, or any
other kind of meeting which is convened for a public purAnd yet (in spite of all you have said) by the aid of
pose.
this talent you may make the physician your slave, and
the trainer your slave and for your famous man of business, it will turn out that he makes his money for somebody
council-room, or the assembly
in
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
11
and not for himself, but for you who have the power
of speaking and gaining the ear of the multitudes.
Now, Gorgias, I think you have come very near c. 8.
Soc.
to an explanation of what you understand by the art of
rhetoric, and, if I at all enter into your meaning, you define 453
rhetoric to be the artificer of persuasion, and you say that
its entire business and the whole sum and substance of it
Or have you any power to mention that
results in this.
rhetoric possesses beyond that of producing persuasion in the
else
be
to
of
None
at
all,
this
sufficient;
Socrates
me
is
it.
Soc.
may be
Then
listen to
me, Gorgias.
if
you
I flatter myself,
/ too am one
more,
of that sort
and
make no doubt
that
you
I'll tell
directly.
of the
is
means
it is
applied,
I assure
you
by no
clearly understand
The word
'
else,'
found
in the best
The explanation
for
it,
in the
translation.
may
be etymo-
two
which
it
mere
it
*0f
grammar which
all
ex-
by the notes
to a
12
Now why
self am I
It is not
my-
or
annoy you),
most clear
to us.
right in repeating
my
my
Take a
question.
am
parallel case.
If
if
a figure-painter, would
is
me
to
figures
And
8oc.
him
is
this,
number
it
of other figures ?
Yes.
Gor.
mean
is
something of
an3rthing, does
otherwise
Gor.
it.
What
teaches
art that
this sort
he persuade in teaching
it
or do
you think
And
Soc.
arts as
man
of
again, if
we mentioned
we apply our
all
the properties
number ?
Gor.
Yes, no doubt.
Soc.
And
Gor.
Yes.
Soc.
Then numeration
so likewise persuades
seems
Gor.
It
Soc.
So then
also is
an
artificer of persuasion
so.
if
we
are asked
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
13
Shan't
about.
we ?
Yes.
Gov.
Soc.
persuasion.
True.
Gov.
Since then
Soc.
this object,
it
is
the
rhetoric
is
think
would be
art,
What
fair,
it,
sort of persuasion
and what
c. 9.
it
is
then
is it
of which
You
tion?
Gov.
Soc.
me
Oh, yes.
Answer me
in this view.
regularly to a conclusion
[iov
the
we may not
up an over-hasty conclusion
meaning founded on a mere guess, but
that you
may
state
fit
according to
'
14
Indeed, Socrates, in
Gov.
my
quite right.
Boc,
then, let
There
amine.
learnt
Come
tliis
is
Soc.
There
And
call
ex-
have
'to
Soc.
is.
again
'
to
have believed
Do you
Gov.
Boc.
'
Oh, yes.
Gov.
Different,
And
you
same
thing,
If
this.
were asked.
Is
may be
there
we
'
Got.
from
l)e
such
sure of
it
thing,
yes,
presume.
Gov.
Boc.
Gov,
Boc.
I should.
But
again,
is
Certainly not.
To be
sure,
because
it
True.
Soc.
But
still
those
that
Gov.
Soc.
It is so.
knowledge, the
other knowledge?
Gor.
Yes, by
all
means.
Then which
deny
In
it
so readily
and so
of the
by
ouSa/icDs.
'You
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
15
Rhetoric then,
Soc.
it
seems,
is
an
artificer of persuasion
455
and wrong.
Gor.
Yes.
Bog.
Nor consequently
is
the
rhetorician
qualified to
instruct law-courts or
Gor.
Certainly not.
Soc.
Come, then,
let
us see what
we do
actually
mean
by
most
skilful practitioner.
harbours or docks,
it
when
advice
is
to be given
the disposition of
men
not he
Or, again,
of generals, or
or the occupa-
it is
the military
is
Or what
of your
it
is
own
here
may be
fact I
as in
dare say a good manywho
v/ith
repeated
c.
10.
PLATO'S aouaiAs.
16
And
so
by frequenting your
Gorgias,
society?
On what
we be
wrong
now mentioning?
just
Try then
subjects shall
is it
to give
them an answer.
Gov.
way
out the
in fact
You know,
you pointed
presume, that
yonder docks
crafts.
such matters.
8oc.
natural.
C"^
Gov.
On
"^
Aye,
if
you knew
all,
Socrates,
how
*A6r]vai(ji}v,
it
embraces
to. 'Adijvaltov
and tQv
2 t6 5ta fM^ffov reixos is the interior or southern of the two 'long walls,'
40 stadia each, which connected Athens with the Piraeus. A third wall,
long walls,' of 35 stadia, led to the harbour of Phalerum.
shorter than the
The middle wall* was built last of the three, in 457 B.C., during the adminisIt is called by -^schines, de Fals. Leg. rb vbriov retxo^
tration of Pericles.
of
'
'
or to ^bpeiov Teixo^-
Thuc.
I.
107,
108,
II.
way
13,
of distinction to
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
under
it
my
it.
may
17
I will give
say.
any other
physician, gone into the house of one of their patients, and
upon his refusing to take their medicines, or to submit to be
in
company with
brother
(Herodicus),
or
when
the
that
if
And
maintain too
had to argue out the question before a general assembly or any other kind of meeting
which of the two was to be elected, orator or physician,
the latter would be totally extinguished (totally eclipsed, altogether distanced), and the able speaker elected if he chose.
And if the contest lay between him and the master of any
other craft you please to name, the rhetorician would carry
his own election sooner than any one else whatever: for
there is no subject in the world on which the rhetorician
could not speak more persuasively than the master of any
other art whatsoever, before a multitude.
Such then is the
extent and such the quality of the power of this art. We
are bound however, Socrates, to employ rhetoric in the same
way as every other kind of exercise. For in fact all other
exercises are not to be employed against every body indiscriminately merely because a man has become such a proficient in boxing and wrestling or the use of arms as to have
the advantage over friend and foe this does not entitle him
to knock his friends down or stab or assassinate them.
No
by my faith, nor again if any one were to frequent a
wrestling-school until he had got his body into prime condition, and become an expert pugilist, and then go and strike
his father and his mother or any other of his relations or
friends, would that be any reason for conceiving an aversion
to trainers and fencing-masters, and expelling them from our
cities.
For they no doubt gave their lessons to these pupils
city
you
employment
of
them
2
PLATO'S aOROJAS.
18
457 sion
art
whereas
tlie
otliers
an improper
to
Yet
use.
it
bad in
itself;
is
tlieir
tliat
either to
it,
the
blame
in
my
because he could do
it
he
if
any other
liked, or artists of
is
may
fairly
It is therefore
12
^oc.
you
like myself
have had a
if
a dispute
is
said pro-
discussion.
And
own account
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
What
set of fellows.
is
then
is
my
19
consistent or in
Now
rhetoric.
am
It
me
quite
you should
my
am
myself,
what
sort of person
glad to be refuted
am
when
Now
I?
if
would rather
I
am
I assert^
And
let it alone.
untrue, and
is
glad to refute any one else supposing he falP into any error;
For
another.
man
no
evil
upon the
Now if you
discussion.
can befall a
subjects which
but
conversation:
on with the
if
let
it,
we
as well as myself
better drop
greater to
than to deliver
evil that
is
argument.
our discussion
we
able length.
We
now again
if
we go on with
mood, making a
definite
is
In speaking
of a similar in-
tainty of the event, and avoiding the assertion that such a thing
to happen.
dicative
There
is
a consider-
and subjunctive
after
is
at all likely
the in-
*if.'
22
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
20
may
c.
be wanting to do something
You
Cheer.
13
else.
{Sensation).
how
doing anything
Cat.
self,
else.
my
Yes, by
though
to say.
faith,
Chgerephon.
cussions I don't
know
that I ever in
am
you
concerned,
will
do
me
if
you choose
to
a favour.
pupil.
Yes.
Gor.
but persuasion?
459
Just
Gor,
Soc.
You
so.
said just
now
if
for
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
surely amongst the well-informed he
21
Gov.
And
man
to
knowledge ?
Yes certainly.
Soc,
Soc,
sume
in
he?
is
True.
Gor.
Gor.
among
persuasive
I pre-
so.
It follows
Soc.
physician.
Gor.
Soc.
the case
is
is
of real
Gov.
tion,
he
so if
And
is
else?
no occasion, that
is
to say, for
it
them
is
to be acquainted with
enough
for
them
have
may
enable
know-
them
to
Well and isn't it a great comfort, Socrates, without learning any of the other arts, but with this one alone, to
be at no disadvantage in comparison with the professional
Gor.
people ?
Soc.
Whether the
rhetorician
is
or
is
not at a disad-
[or,
we
as to
what
is
will
all
the
c.
14
riATO'S GOUGIAS,
22
other arts; that
is
to say, tliat he
is
ignorant of what
good
is
itself,
Or
is
this
you be
altogether unable to teach him rhetoric unless he have a
doesn't,
isn't? or will
case, Gorgias?
Do
in heaven's
name, as you said just now, draw aside the veil and tell us
in what the virtue of rhetoric really does consist.
Well I suppose, Socrates, if he does not know all
Gor.
this already I shall have to teach him this as well.
Hold there (don't say any more), for that is well
Soc.
If you make a man a rhetorician he must needs be
said.
acquainted with what
is
just
is
Gor.
Just
Bog.
How
a builder,
and
Yes.
Bog.
And
Gor.
Yes.
so
racter
And
on for
who has
then
he
isn't
Got.
Soc.
so.
so one
one
all
who has
who has
every one
which
is
No doubt.
Bog.
And so likewise by
learnt justice is a just man ?
it ?
Gor.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Most undoubtedly.
But the just man
Gor.
Soc.
it is
23
to
things.
Yes.
Gor.
Soc.
man
Gor.
Yes, so
Soc.
it
appears.
man
do
wrong.
Necessarily.
Gor.
Boc.
And
Gor.
Yes.
follows
it
will
never desire to do
wrong.
Gor.
No,
it
seems not.
an orator employs
and
city,
so in like
we
but the
manner
man
that
or not?
Gor.
It was.
Soc.
But now
it
doesn't
Gor.
8oc.
it ?
It does.
And
was stated that rhetoric deals with words, not words about
even and odd numbers, but about what is just and unjust;
it
wasn't
it ?
Gor.
Yes.
c. 1
PLATO'S aonoiAs.
24
when all the spceclies that it makes are about justice; but,
461 when you told us shortly after that the orator might make an
unjust use of his rhetoric, then I was surprised, and thinking
that the two assertions did not harmonize with one another I
said
what
tage to be refuted
not to
it
tion, or
if
come
examine the
to
I did, that if
let
it
drop
point,
make an
wrong.
Now
to
make
16
it
is
to sift this
Gorgias,
c.
may
be,
by the dog,
is
How's
-^c*/.
it
satisfactorily
that, Socrates
is
that
Or do you suppose
is
pupil
come
teach
it
to
himself
all
this that
he
if
will
Polus means to
is
on
if
is
rendered 'because,' as
it
probably
an anacoluthon.
deu}'^
that there
is
into avvejSr]
rendering
is
based
is
and
The
entire sentence
down
and
re-
to epwrrjixara is
this irregularity is
av/x(3rjvai,
I have rendere
at as
if
that this
is
6tl.
and that you have any right to triumph over him?' and this is implied in what
follows.
If '6tl is rendered 'that,' the meaning is, 'or rather, think you,
Heindorf's version is *an (quod res
that...' i.e. don't you rather think that.
eflt) pudore detemtum
Gorgiam putas...' which is tantamount to the preceding,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
For who do you think
is
to
likely
2)
Nay,
it is
very unmannerly
bred,
(ill
it
is
to others
Well
reason that
to
be
we provide
may
And now
making any
false step in
:
made our
footing uncerlife
if
on
its
legs
Gorgias and
so.
And
Soc.
Polus,
Pol.
How
Mayn't
be allowed to say as
much as I please ?
It
were to be the only person there who was debarred from it.
But just set my case against yours. If you make a long
speech and refuse to reply to
equally hard upon
me
my
questions, wouldn't
it
be
you ? No, no, if you have any regard for the argu- 462
ment we have been holding and want to set it right again, as
I said just now take back any thing you please, and in your
turn questioning and questioned, like myself and Gorgias,
refute or submit to refutation.
For you claim to be aclisten to
quainted with
all
Pol.
Pol.
No
doubt
I do.
like
to
him
you they
like as
one that
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
26
c.
17
Well, so I
Pol.
Answer me
will.
Since
then, Socrates.
PoL
Soc.
What
Soc.
lately
art.
thing do
you mean
mean a kind
of acquired
habit
'routine,'
(or
Cousin).
Pol.
Soc.
Of the production
Pol.
Soc.
of a sort of gratification
and
pleasure.
Pol.
to
fine thing,
I say it
is,
whether
Why,
Pol.
habit
me
a sort of
it
Soc.
value on
'
obliging,' to oblige
me
set
in a trifling matter
Pol.
To be sure I will.
Ask me now what art I take cookery
I ask you then, what art is cookery ?
Soc.
None
Pol.
Pol.
Soc.
Soc.
Pol.
at
all,
such a high
Polus.
habit.
to be.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
What /
8oc.
say
27
is,
What
Pol.
pursuit do you
mean ?
Soc.
suits.
this is the
now we
know
from
his views
'
'
my
tate on
account.
seems to
me
all,
It
Boc.
its
spirit,
And
the
art,
but according to
Of this
my
view
is
no
art,
things.
so
for
it
sort of
let
him do
branch of flattery
not
fair,
Pokis
have
but
first
if
you want
it is.
to learn (what
For
it is
my opinion is),
c.
18
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
28
ask
me what
pronounce rhetoric
to be.
I ask
Pol.
of branch
Boc.
I do answer.
Rhetoric
my
according to
is
me when
understand
will
foul
foul;
stood
my
Soc.
Gov.
meaning.
No upon my
word, Socrates
why
myself don't
either.
for I
is
so
young and
hot.
Gov.
by saying that
rhetoric
is
but
tell
Politics.
soul?
464
Gov.
Of
Soc.
And
course there
in these again
condition of each
Gov.
Soc.
To be
And
is.
is
a good
sure I do.
again,
Take a
real
good con-
there are
many
whom
dition
it
for
in soul,
so.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
to
29
theless.
Gov.
It is so.
meaning more c
Two classes of things have I say two arts
clearly to you.
corresponding to them that which has the soul under its
Soc.
Let
me
see then
if I
can explain
my
19
direction
(or,
that which
is
and though for that which has charge of the body I can't find
you just on the spur of the moment any single name, still
the care of the body is one and has as I reckon two divisions,
In Politics
the one gymnastics and the other medicine.
against g}^mnastics I set legislation, and as the counterpart
In each of these pairs, howto medicine I assign justice.
ever, medicine and gymnastics, justice and legislation, there
is
and
I don't say
with a
full
and cares not one jot for what is best, but with the bait
of what is most agreeable for the moment angles for folly
and deludes it to such a degree as to get the credit of
being something of the highest value. And so I say cookery
has assumed the disguise of medicine, and pretends to the
knowledge of the kinds of food that are best for the body,
so that if a cook and a physician had to go through a
contest before a set of boys, or
men
and
PLATO'S aORCJIAS.
30
it
20 these points I
am
But
name
and an
art I
do
it
best
is
it
and so cannot
which is irrayou contest any of
applies,
to nothing
of art.
If
Now
and the
same way that of gymnastics, a
knavish and cozening and ignoble and illiberal art, cheating
people so by the aid of forms and colours and polish and
dress as to make them in the endeavour to assume a borrowed beauty neglect the native and genuine beauty which
comes by gymnastics. However not to be tedious, I will
state the thing like the geometers
for by this time I dare
say you will be prepared to follow me as the art of dressing
art of dressing in just the
is
to gymnastics so
is
cooking to medicine
as dressing to gymnastics so
cookery to medicine so
though such
say,
is
is
is
or rather thus,
sophistic to legislation,
rhetoric to justice \
and
However
as
as I
and rhetoricians
and the things with which they deal are a good deal jumbled
as these arts are so nearly allied, sophists
still,
The
'justice' here
spoken of
is
the 'principle of
Si'/ct;
erravopOuTiKri or
ScopOiOTiKTj,
see
c.
34, p.
478
A.
It redresses
the disturbed balance of society, heals the diseases which injustice and wrong
have introduced into the body corporate, and so corresponds to medicine which
operates similarly upon the individual human body.
Of this rhetoric, which
pretends to maintain the right and redress wrong,
feit
The
is
(etScoXoi/).
is
dlKT] Sta-
This assigns to every citizen his due position and rights, functions
veix-qTLKT).
and authority, in the society of which he is a member. A third variety is distinguished from these two by the author of the fifth book of the Nicomachean
Ethics.
ev rais
dWaKTiKOis
Kotvuiviais, c. 8.
generally,
is
It seems to
me
widest sense.
It
more
to be a
mere variety
PLATO'S GOEGIAS,
31
Now
when
refused to
let
when
How-
spoke in short
make any
make
of
of mine, there
it is
What
Pol.
sort of flattery
for you.
Do you
take rhetoric to be a
c.
and by
Pol.
Then
is
it
Is that
of a speech
cities as flatterers
Pol.
Soc.
Then
question to be sure.
I don't think
all.
'
21
32
How
Pol.
their cities
^oc.
not esteemed
Are
tliey
not all-powerful in
No,
if
at least
a good to
its
all
is
possessor.
Pol.
Why
Soc.
Then
of course I
it
mean
seems to
me
that.
Pol.
How
from their
Soc.
By
am
own
opinion, or asking
me
question.
Pol.
Why
Soc.
Very good,
two questions
at once
my
friend
Pol.
How
Soc.
two
now something
the orators put any one they please to death, like the tyrants,
or rob of his money, or banish from their cities any one they
think proper
Pol.
c.
22
Yes
I did.
I tell
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
33
great power?
and do you
Pol No not I.
Then you must prove to me that the orators are
Soc.
men of understanding, and that rhetoric is an art, and not a
mere flattery, and so refute me. But if you leave me uncall that
and your
indeed power is
fit
You
evil.
do, don't
you
Yes I do.
Then how can
Pol.
Soc.
in their
no advantage in that, if
as you say a good, and doing what one
without understanding you too admit to be an
cities,
thinks
by Polus
to
power
own
that
Pol.
Here's a fellow
Soc.
what they
desire
There
now,
refute me.
Pol.
Well and
Pol.
Why
Soc.
I say no.
Pol.
What
Soc.
Yes.
Pol.
This
Soc.
own
in your
me
do now.
is
whilst they do
prove that I
fit ?
style ^
'own
so I
am
if
to
Polus'
was a
style' has
disciple of Gorgias
and
illustrated,
we may
\(^(TTe
IlwXe
is
referred
7
"*
437*
PLATO'S OOROIAS.
3i
Pol.
Well
I will
Is
you do
mean.
.
23
t>oc.
it
or that which
is
[i.e.
the
who
desire
suffer pain,
do, to
is
the object of
8oc.
And
so with
is
it.
sume
it is
is
for
that which
Yes
Soc.
And
what they
desire I pre-
PoL
man
is
it.
certainly.
isn't
all
other cases
If a
it ?
Ua
Xiyeiv.
?<^'S;
It
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
35
that sort
any thing
name
else of
or
is
of neither
good
The
Pol.
walk,
Consequently
8oc.
when we do
Soc.
And
we
the same
we put a man
so likewise don't
to death if
sure.
we think it better
when we do stand, with
still,
Yes.
in pursuit of
walk, because
Pol
it is
good to be
we think
it is
him
better for us to do
we
of his
it
than
not?
Yes no doubt.
So then it is
Pol.
8oc.
people do
all
sake of what
is
good that
I allow
Pol.
for the
it.
Quite
Soc.
Then we
so.
money merely in
the abstract, but if these things are advantageous we desire
to do them, but if mischievous we do not. For we desire what
is good, as you allow; but what is neither good nor bad we
do not desire, nor what is bad, do we ? Do you think what I
say
is
answer
true,
cities or
Polus,
or
rob
them
not?
of their
[a ^jause^
Why
don't
you
True.
Pol.
(Sulkily.)
,Soc.
this, if
man
32
c.
24
PLATO'S aORGIAS.
36
death or expels l)im from the city or strips him of his property,
thinks
it is
Yes.
Boc.
But does he
Pol.
No,
Soc.
Can
I don't
it
him ?
Soc.
man
because he
Pol.
is
it
doesn't he
fit,
also
power
when
it,
can not.
it is
possible
to do
Pol.
Why
Boc.
so
What
Pol.
the
men
Is this
that I speak of
Boc.
How
Pol.
can
be otherwise
it
it
justly
is
Boc.
No
Pol.
Boc.
Nay
I don't
I said if
either.
he did
it
;
unjustly,
but
my
if justly,
friend,
and an
unenviable.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Oh
Pol.
no doubt a
man who
Soc.
less so
is
and wretched.
Less so than the author
pitiable
is
and
die.
Pol.
Soc.
In
that to do wrong
this,
37
is
the greatest of
all
evils.
What?
Pol.
greater
this^ihe greatest?
Soc.
No by
Pol.
Would you
Soc.
no means.
prefer then suffering
PoL
power
is
wrong
my own
to doing
part
but
it ?
if I
Then
No,
suppose
you wouldn't
accept
despotic
Soc.
if
I do.
Pol.
I said
power
own
and pleasure.
My worthy friend, let me tell you something and
Soc.
then when it comes to your turn to speak you may criticise it.
If in a crowded market^ I were to take a dagger under my
arm, and whisper to you, Polus, I have just come into possession of quite a despotic power, perfectly amazing for if I think
fit that any one of those men that you see there should die
to one's
will
or
if it
seems to
head broken,
noon
If I say
me
it'll
be broken on the
it'll
be done
so great
is
have his
have his
my
power in this
were to show you
market-place.
to
spot, or to
iv aydpq. T\rjdov(rri is
;
them ought
it
c.
25
riATO'S GORGIAS,
36
my
it,
why,
470
Pol.
No
Soc.
Can you
of this kind
me
Pol.
Yes
8oc.
Why
Pol.
Because punishment
I can.
is it
then
say.
is
And
Pol.
To be
And
is
sure
my
it is.
so,
fine fellow,
tJds point.
to
We
it is
sometimes better
of,
to put
men
to
sometimes not
Pol.
Soc.
Yes certainly.
Weil then, it seems, you and
I agree in
admitting
this.
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Tell
Pol.
your
line
it
is
better to do
them
this
same question
yourself.
Soc.
me, that
justly,
Well then
it is
I say, Polus, if
when they
it
from
are done
PLATO'S GOHGIAS.
Very
Fol.
Why,
couldn't
liard^
it
I shall
you, Socrates,
to refute
is
Then
Soc.
indeed
30
to be in the
wrong ?
child,
me
so to you, if
you refute
only the other day'' are quite enough to prove you in the
wrong and
to
Soc.
Pol.
of Perdiccas
is
king of Macedonia ?
Soc.
Pol.
Soc.
acquaintance.
How's that
Pol.
Polus' irony
is
Do vou mean
you could
to sav
dis-
72)
which seem
all
He
is
But
it
may
reasonably be doubted
worth while to bestow any great amoimt of pains and labour upon
such an attempt. All great writers of fiction such as Shakespeare and Walter
whether
it is
was no more
This seems to
me
and
I strongly suspect
to be proved
by the great
diflficulty
which
is
almost invariably
found in fixing the dramatic date of any of his dialogues, arising partly from
the numerous inconsistencies and historical inaccuracies which we seldom fail to
These most easily escape detection on the part of the author
find in them.
and the
reader,
at all events,
how
little
c.
2G
riATO'S aOUGIAS,
40
cover
it
by making his
ac(|iiaintarice
he
(or,
know
Doiit you
is
with-
happy?
Soc.
No by my
Pol.
you don't
Soc.
what
is
faitli I don't.
moral character ^
Pol.
How
Soc.
Yes according
man
or
woman
then
I say is
to
my
view, Polus
for
is
an honest
unjust and
wicked miserable.
471
Pol.
is
Then according
miserable
Soc.
Yes,
Pol.
Why
my
friend, if
of course,
no claim whatever
being the son of a
he
is
unjust.
how can he be
to the throne
woman
otherwise
He had
(Simiche)
who was
the slave of
tliis,
quam
sit
doctus,
quam
vir
bonus.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
41
and
Soc.
c.
27
same time
And
logue.
thought you had somewhat neglected the diaso now, this is the famous argument, is it, with
which any child could refute me ? and this is the sort of talk
by which in your opinion I now stand convicted when I
How can that be,
assert that the wrong doer is not happy ?
my
you
good friend
And
yet
don't
for
say.
No
Pol.
I say.
Soc.
to refute
me
For there indeed the one party is supposed to refute the other
when he brings forward a number of respectable witnesses in
support of any statements he happens to make, whilst the
opponent produces only a single one or none at all. But refutation of this kind
is
that a
man may be
and apparent
of,
you
Nicias, if
you
respectability.
speak
for it
please,
you.
for
witnesses
PLATO'S aouaiAs
42
number
bringing forward a
dispossess
my
me
of
my
part, if I don't
me
produce yourself
But
to
for
one as a witness in
have effected nothing
for
all
This then
is
one kind of
This
is
one of the passages which has been supposed to disagree with the
date 405 B.C. assigned as the dramatic date of the dialogue: and even Schleiermacher who adopts it conceives that Nicias and Aristocrates, who died in 413
and 406 respectively, are spoken of as living witnesses, and that this is thereI have already expressed my belief that Plato thought
fore an anachronism.
little
instance
it
is
we
the evidence of
to the wealth
and splendour
of those
who
opinion upon the advantages of such things by the desire they evince for the
perpetuation of the
alive to this
day
memory
of them.
bricks" in short
*'
that be
In
fact,
unless this were Plato's meaning, there could be no conceivable reason for mentioning their offerings at
2
This
is
what
all.
may
call
the
'
received
'
however
It
is
unknown
open
The
I believe
]>roperty.
hesitated to introduce
it
coming nuich
technicality I have
original better, as
though from
its
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
we
subject
ance,
nay
are debating
is
43
it is
know
man
possible for a
ness,
to
man and
Are we not
yet happy.
your opinion
is
Pol.
Yes
Soc.
And
certainly.
w^hich w^e
happy in
punishment
I say
it's
impossible.
No, by no means
Pol.
in that case
he would be most
miserable.
Soc.
But
if
my view.
And in my opinion,
That
is
Polus,. the
take to maintain.
Soc.
same,
my
Aye and
you
suffering
make you
points on which
I told
I will try to
we
So now, the
I believe before
it.
Pol.
No
Soc.
You on
Pol
Yes.
doubt you
did.
it Avorse.
PLATO'S GOnOlAf^.
And /
Soc.
Yes, egad,
tliat I did.
Soc.
At
Pol.
And my
opinion
Soc.
But you
least in
is
Why
Pol.
so.
that's still
Socrates.
Not only
Soc.
so,
man be
If a
detected in a criminal
fied or
will he
be a happier
man
than
and
citizens
is
c.
29
if
all
foreigners to boot?
Is this
it
impossible to refute?
Soc.
brave
Now
me.
just refresh
my memory
me
to scare
me
with bugbears,
just
little:
''in
my
that,
but
Yes I did.
Then neither
of
them
will ever
be happier than
two miserable
men neither can be said to be happier: still the more
nor he that
is
punished
for his
misdeeds
for of
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
45
he that remains undiscovered and secures him[Polus smiles.] What does that mean,
self on the throne.
Polusi Are you laughing? Here's another new kind of
refutation when an assertion is made to refute it by grin-
miserable
is
Fol
when you
tain
am
Polus, I
Soc.
human
no
of the
company
men
in fact
when
"And
This
mined.
and
deter-
is
Pope
is
It
allusions
as a
it
mark
of time:
indi-
be made
very fairly to harmonise with this by merely allowing a very reasonable latitude
in the use of indefinite expressions, such as vecaari
finite
B.C.
and precise
vpi^rjv,
the de-
except upon the most improbable supposition that Socrates twice held the
t.ffice
of etrKTTOLTTfs
r^'ctly
di-
is
engaged
The
15,
7ripv<7L
in public business
life.
and alluded
Memor.
to
1.
18,
i.
and
by Xenophon,
Hellen.
Mr
32 B.
11.
He
on this occasion.
iiria-TaTrj^,
iirLxprjtpi^eiv,
memoraMe
tributing to ignorance
if
trial
what was
expressive of
was
7.
doubt as to
I.
Grote,
illegal
state-
question to
in fact
an act
of heroic firmness
is
and resolution
ample of that form of 'dissimulation' which as Aristotle tells us, Eth. Nic.
IV. 7. 14, from Socrates' constant use of it, came to be distinguished as dpwvda.
in
which
in fact Socrates'
irony
'
mainly consists.
In another aspect,
it is
hardly
PLATO s aonaiAS.
46
the
tliat is
man
himself with
I utterly disregard
whom
and there
am
is
many
know how
arguing, the
I
you know, that you and I and every one else believes
doing wrong to be worse than suffering it, and escaping
punishment for one's transgressions worse than enduring it.
And I, that neither I nor anyone else in the w^orld
Pol.
believes it.
For would you rather suffer wrong than do it ?
Yes, and so would you and every body else.
Soc.
Pol.
You are quite wrong on the contrary neither I nor
you nor any one else.
think,
Soc.
Then
Pol.
By
all
will
vou answer?
means, for in
Then
Soc.
me
fact I
to say.
may know,
was
my questions all over again, w^hich of the two
you to be worse, Polus, doing or suffering wrong?
tell
that you
just as
if I
beginning
seems to
is
to be sure.
Pol.
Suffering
Soc.
it
to 'fouler'?'
Which
of the two
thaf^
now
name
of 'quizzing.'
^
in
common
Dr Whewell
lating
them
the other
is
this
uppermost
'
ugly.'
The
'
I have taken
fair
'
and
foul.'
difficulty of trans-
in the originals,
and
this
differ-
ent words to express them, yet the argument frequently obliges us to retain
the same throughout, because
it
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Wrong
And so
Fol.
Soc.
doing.
likewise worse,
No by no
Pol
bad and
PoL
if fouler.
c.
30
means.
Oh, I understand
Soc.
47
you think
same
fair
things.
Certainly not.
of
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
And moreover
life,
their beauty I
that
is
presume
is
to
in them, or both.
Pol.
No,
Soc.
And
the same
Pol.
is
and habits
be found nowhere beyond
think not.
beauty of studies
is
it
not 475
Yes no doubt
changing them
and
the argument or adopting some unfamiliar terms to represent two of the com-
monest words
in the
Greek language.
PLATO'S GOROIAS.
48
when you
define
what
is fair
by pleasure
and good.
And may
>S'oc.
I in the
Soc.
so because
by
Pol.
foul
is
fair
things one
is
fairer, it is
it
Certainly.
Soc.
And when
it will
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
Come
and
wrong ?
suffering
Pol.
Soc.
it, it is
it
fouler
Well then
either more
doing wrong
if
painful,
Soc.
course
it
feel
does.
exceeds suffering
wrong
is
Does not
Of
that do
Pol.
Avi'ong
not
I did.
of mischief or both
31
Is
then,
c.
is fouler,
it
let
Pol.
Oh
Soc.
So then
Pol.
Certainly not.
Soc.
And
suffer
is,
it
those
accordingly
if
it
not in pain,
exceeds.
it
ceed in both.
Pol.
It appears not.
Soc.
It only
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
In mischief
Irt,
the case.'
'
any longer,
after this, as
Corresponding to
^Si;
it
it
in affirmative sentences.
if
this
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Pol,
It
Soc.
So
wrong
seems
so.
because
it is
it
is
PoL
Plainly
40
it.
so.
it
is
Is it not
Soc.
it ?
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
And now
Pol.
It
Soc.
seems
it
so.
Polus,
wdll
it
is less ?
and the
Don't hesitate to
my
question.
Pol.
Well
Soc.
Pol.
Soc.
Then
one
as
it,
Socrates.
else in the
world ?
nor I nor any one else in the world would prefer doing to
suffering
Pol.
wrong because
So it appears.
;
You
Soc.
proof
is
else
only your
own evidence
is
of
no
/ am
satisfied
single
and
alone,
and
I take 476
so let this
all
greater as was
my
for
mode
And
you
the one
let
when
one
worse.
it's
call
evils as
opinion.
man
to be brought to justice
you thought, or
to escape
Let us consider
it
it is
thus.
is
Do
PLATaS
50
Soc.
c.
32
act,
Now
Pol.
Well
Soc.
Then look
is
it
all
fair, in
so far
do think
so,
Socrates.
When
that
aOJKJiAS.
And
so.
necessarily be struck
Pol.
Just
so.
Soc.
And
if
object struck
the
striker
is
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
Consequently the
object struck as
Pol.
Soc.
is
strikes
way ?
effect is of the
To be sure.
Or again, when a man bums, something must
necessity be burnt
Pol.
Of
Soc.
And
of
course.
if
he burns severely or
burns
Pol.
Yes
Soc.
And
that
is
certainly.
so
when a man
to say something
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
And
if
is
the cut
cut
is
Soc.
cuts,
precisely of the
same kind
as
it?
So it appears.
Well then in a word, see
if
is
of exactly
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
Pol
Well
Soc,
suffer
51
I do.
something or to do
is
to
be punished to
it ?
Pol.
To
Soc.
Pol.
inflicts
the punishment.
Soc.
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Pol.
Soc.
ment
suffers
what
is
Pol.
So
Soc.
And what
it
just
punish-
appears.
we have admitted
to
be
Pol.
Yes
Soc.
is
is
just I believe
fair?
fair,
and the
certainly.
other, the
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
And
so if fair
man who
is
then good,
punished, suffers
it.
or usefuP.
Pol.
Soc,
what
is
Pol.
Soc.
Of
course.
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Is it that
is
improved
Pol.
Yes probably.
Soc.
Then
vice of soul
Pol.
is
if
one that
he
is
is
namely
justly punished.
Yes.
By
the definition,
c. 30,
474, D, E.
42
c. 33
477
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
r)2
And
Soc.
is
relieved
not that
is
from
Look
greatest of
tlio
at
it
evils that
all
In a man's
this way.
in
ho
than
Fol.
Soc.
Or again
in
Yes
Soc.
And
inherent vice
his
evil is
I should.
so in soul don't
is
some
Fol.
No
Soc.
And
doubt of
it.
you
don't
Fol.
To be
Soc.
sure.
vices,
you
justice?
Fol.
Yes.
Soc.
Then which
Is it not injustice, or in a
Fol.
Yes by
Soc.
And
Fol.
How mean
Soc.
This.
what
it
is
most
word the
if foulest
is
by reason of
bane or both.
so always
Quite
Soc.
Fol.
We have
Soc.
So then
them
its
bringing with
foulest
no doubt.
it is
either
most
painful, or in other
it is
Necessarily.
words
the foulest
so.
of all of
It
foul
it
Fol.
because
the foulest
far.
it is
is
vice),
or
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Soc.
Is
53
the rest so as to
make
by which the
it
soul's vice
the foulest of
them
all,
exceeds
since
it
So
it
appears.
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Injustice then
all
the
Is
Pol.
So
Soc.
What
it
it
appears.
is
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
And what
c.
34
from disease?
Is it
cine?
To the
Soc.
And
tious
physicians, Socrates.
whither do
we send
Pol.
Soc,
To
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Is it not
Pol
mean ?
Plainly.
who
chastise aright
sort of justice
4:78
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
64
Soc.
Which then
Fol.
What
Soc.
Fol.
Justice, Socrates,
Soc.
So then, again,
is fairest
do you mean
of these
far superior.
is
if it is fairest it
Yes.
Fol.
Fol.
No
Soc.
But
Fol.
Yes.
Soc.
fore
it is
it is
Fol.
Of
Soc.
Is this
course
body to be in,
be ill at all ?
to
Soc.
For,
had
at
it
in,
is
not what
evil,
we
said happiness
all.
It
Soc.
Again.
On
seems, this
ill.
Fol.
Plainly never to be
consisted
is
it is.
Fol.
it
is so.
other dialogues of Plato) between corrective justice and medicine, and the
curative
justly
eflfect
of the former
suite
il
le
regarde
le
compare
cb^timent
est k la plaie.
soul,
31:
et se laisse aller
comme un
ii.
Renouvier very
Quelquefois enfin
au medecin,
et
que par
et si la peine est
si
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
in
55
is
the mischief, or he
who
Fol.
Soc.
And
faults
is
we
didn't
it ?
evil,
that
is
wicked-
ness?
Pol
We
did.
ness
is
cured.
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
Happiest of
all
then
is
we proved
he who
is
free
from vice in
be the greatest of
this to
all
evils.
Pol
Evidently.
Soc.
And
who
gets rid of
he
it.
Pol
It
Soc.
And he
seems
so.
as
we
said
is
one who
is
admonished and
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
delivered from
Pol
So
Soc.
And
it
it
is
not
life.
appears.
is
not he that
man who
in the commission of
the greatest crimes and the practice of the greatest iniquity 479
ment, as you say Archelaus has contrived to do, and the rest
of your tyrants and orators and potentates ?
Pol
It
Soc.
seems
so.
my
excellent friend,
is
what c 35
very
of the
rLATO\S GOEGIAK
50
Yes
Pol.
I do.
Soc.
who
of those likewise
transgressions
is
very
it
much
they discern
doing
is
evil,
Pol.
So
Soc.
And
appears.
it
further
faults is a deliverance
seems
Pol.
It
Soc.
And
us of the evil
it
from
this evil
for one's
so.
is
an abiding in
Pol.
Yes.
Soc.
Wrong
doing then
to do
them
all.
seems
Pol.
It
Soc.
Well,
is
suffer for
the
first
but
and greatest of
so.
my
friend,
was not
FLATaS G ORG!AS.
between
of all
57
us,
pay no penalty
for the
Pol
Yes.
Soc.
Well then
was true
Is
it ?
is
it
not
now proved
Pol.
It appears so.
Soc.
Very good.
If
?
then this
For,
is
you know,
man
what
the 480
follows from our c. 36
should himself
is
keep the
strictest
should he not
Yes surely.
But if he do commit a wrong, either himself or any
Soc.
one else he cares for, he must go of his own accord to the
place where he may most speedily be punished for it, to the
Pol.
are
we
if not,
what
stand
in
Or
Soc.
at
all,
contrarv, that
it is
first
of
all.
PLATO'S GOltaiAS.
58
and
relations or
liis
it
were to
worthy of
imprisonment, or
payment
of a fine to
if
accuser and of
own
or if of bonds to
of the fine, or
;
friends
all his
himself the
and
if
first
relations as
and
well,
to this
Pol.
it
(aoi)
it
said before.
Soc.
Pol.
Yes, that
Soc.
And
is
certainly
any one
else
avoid
^
but
if
we must be very
careful to
man
provided
by the enemy on
^
conversely again,
ever required to do a
or
so.
"quoniam
scilicet
isto
of explanation
may
His note
(why? on the contrary, such a course would be inconsistent with the moral of
the entire passage, which is, that if you want to punish an enemy you must let
him alone and not bring him to justice), et justa poena afficiatur, quod beneficii
him
to
instru-
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
59
wickedness, or
that he
if not,
may
prolong his
to the
life
who
to
all
me
particularly great
for to
came
if
it
at
it
no where
it
to light.
Col.
this, or
only joking
Cheer.
However
GaL
is
Socrates in earnest in
all c.
what
him the
am
question.
curious to do.
Tell
musn't
to
it
and we are
what we ought
if
we men had
punishment of
it
seems
to do.
Callicles,
Soc.
all
and
injustice
and vice
no injury but a
is
to let
benefit.
them take
The
true and
their course,
and
to
encourage and foster their growth as well as secure the impunity of the offender
by every means in our power only in so doing, he adds half in joke, we must
That
common
is
iradrj/xaTa,
sentiments,
to the whole
individuals in the
irddrj,
is
37
PTATas GonajAS.
r;o
you and I are just now in pretty much the same condition,
enamoured, that is, the pair of us, of two things apiece, I of
Alcibiades son of Clinias and philosophy, and you of the
Now I reAthenian Demus and the son of Pyrilampesl
mark constantly that with all your cleverness however much
your favourite may talk and whatever opinion he may happen to pronounce about any thing, you can't contradict him,
but are constantly changing backwards and forwards. If it
be in the assembly that you are making a speech, and Demus
the Athenian
Demus
mean
doesn't
you veer round at once and say any thing it pleases, or when
you are talking to that fair youth the son of Pyrikmpes,
the very same thing happens to you; you can't resist any
thin- that your minion resolves or says, and therefore if any
one were to express surprise at the oddity of what you are
constantly saying to oblige them, you would tell him I dare
482 say, if you chose to speak the truth, that unless your favourite can be prevented from talking in that way you too must
Imagine then that you
always go on saying the same.
have to receive precisely the same answer from me, and don't
be surprised at my saying this, but (if you don't like it)
make my
my
For,
is
mercy now
at the
sophy
1
is
Ulov
is
now
is
followed here by
even
implied.
tlie
comparative
avbpLOLOv, Cratyl.
435
E,
^,
assertions are
as SXko,
'irepov,
Her
(popov, evavTLov,
parison
of this
is
conveyed.
in
what
aWoTou, Sid-
which a com-
PLATO'S GO EGIAS.
61
so surprised at,
by the
refuted,
God
dog,
you
all
your
life long.
me
better for
that
cordant, or any
number
than for
my
And
yet
it
and
were
dis-
of
contradict myself
Socrates,
what
is
fair'
;;
62
vention
whereas in
timid and
doesn't
and
so if a
man
And
this forsooth
is
your
when a man
asserts
any thing as
when he
you
principles
is
refer to convention.
accord-
'
appealing
As
for in-
upon
it
in
For
it is
part at
all,
living as
but a poor
it is
is
fouler
slave's, for
whom
death
who
is
is
better than
self
c.
it
tell
av,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
that
it
is
many
63
mean
is
mankind
is
so,
able.
And
not only in
in entire states
decided to consist in
this,
it
all
and
is
plain
the other
races', that
should bear rule and have the advantage over the weaker.
For by what right did Xerxes invade Greece, or his father Sc3rthia? or in any other of the ten thousand similar
No, no, these
cases of the kind that might be produced?
men no doubt
by
my
faith
and law too, the law of nature not however I dare say that
which we frame by way of moulding the characters of the
best and strongest of us, whom we take from infancy, and
taming them like lions by spells and conjuring tricks reduce
them to abject slavery, telling them that they must be 484
content with their fair share and that this is the meaning of
But I fancy when there arises a man of
fairness and justice.
ability he flings off all these restraints and bursts them
asunder and makes his escape and trampling under foot all
our written enactments (formularies)^ and juggleries and
spells and laws, clean against nature ever}^ one of them, our
would-be slave rises up against us and shows himself our
master, and then natural justice shines forth in its true light.
And it seems to me that Pindar too confirms what I say in
the ode in which he says " Law the Lord of all, mortals and
;
Lit. in states
ypdfjLfJLara,
own
vofMos,
the
purposes,
societies,
To them
and
are op-
the
divine,
PLATO'S GORCIAS.
CI:
m mortals
fies,
:"
lie
continues,
The words
'*
know
justi-
I appeal in
unbouglit
and
''inflicts,
He
gift
as
off,
though
c.
were natural
and stronger.
40
Such then
convinced of
right, that
is
it if
at length
if
only a
man
apply himself to
time upon
it
too long,
it's
to
he go on spending
the ruin of a man. For if he
it
if
on into
life
he must needs turn out ignorant of every thing that one who
would be an accomplished and eminent citizen should be conversant with. For in fact people of this sort show themselves
ignorant of the laws of their
own
and of
cities,
all
man
that a
human
character.
For the
fact
is,
as no
occu-
as Euripides says,
o'
the day,
bad names
time.
i. e.
man
is
justified
weak he
shuns, and
is
is
at the
same
to take advantage of
inflicts it.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Philosophy
both.
it is
65
and
it is
much
very
a childish way\
lisp in
whom
it is
still
For whenever
and
strikes
it
me
as pretty
it
my ears
When on
gives
me
way with a
childish
me
and seems
only
fit
man
a slave.
for
lisp
or
sees
him playing
to
childish tricks
vulgar and
it
appears
opposition to
two
2
\f/'KXl^<x6at
latter here
Homer,
and
II. ix.
in the
and
irai^etv.
441.
66
c.
Now,
41
Socrates, I have a
accord-
seem to
feeling
towards you as Zethus in Euripides, whom I just referred
In fact it occurs to me to say
to, has towards Amphion.
very much the same to you as he says to his brother, that
you neglect,' Socrates, what you ought to pay attention to,
and a soul endowed by nature with her noblest gifts you
486 disfigure by a boyish disguise*; and neither amid the counsels
of justice will you ever deliver an opinion aright, nor find
aught probable and persuasive, nor devise any gallant resoluingly I
'
'
And
yet,
my
dear Socrates
and now don't be angry with me, for all that I am about to
say is out of regard for you don't you think it a shame for a
man to be in the condition which I consider you to be in,
together with all those who are constantly going deeper and
deeper into philosophy. For as it is, if a man were to arrest
you or any one else of those like you and drag you off to
prison charging you with some crime of which you were
entirely innocent, you know very well that you wouldn't
know what to do with yourself, but there you would stand
with your head swimming and your mouth open not knowing what to say and when you were brought up before the
court, however contemptible and wretched your accuser
might be, you would be condemned to die if he chose to
make him
1
See note
The
'
for
worse,'
A in
an
And
yet
art to find a
how can
man
be a wise
highly gifted and
this
the Appendix.
following verses
may
perhaps represent as
much
No
No
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
67
from the greatest dangers himself or any one else, and liable
to be stript by his enemies of all his substance, and to pass
Wliy such an one,
his life in the city an absolute outlaw \
you the reputation of good sense leave to others these overnice frivolities or nonsense or whatever else they should be
called,
which will end in your dwelling in an empty and
desolate house' (i.e. end in poverty and isolation) and emu;
'
men who
not
late,
my
is
trivial debates,
many
other
had happened to be made of gold, Callicles, don't you think I should have been delighted to find one
of those stones with which they test gold, the best of them,
which would enable me by the application of it provided,
that is, it bore me witness that my soul had been duly cared
for
to be quite sure that 1 am in a satisfactory state, and
have no need of any other touchstone ?
Cal.
What is the meaning of this question, Socrates ?
Soc.
I'll tell you directly.
It seems to me that in meeting you I have met with such a treasure.
If
Boc.
soul
c.
Gal.
Why
Boc.
am
in
any
with
me
so
(XTtfjiOi
is
usually understood to
For
'
mean here
one under
civil rights,
or
is
outlawed.
my
must
perceive that one who would
quite convinced
The
in dishonour.'
drt/^/a.'
is
in the
I think
same
it
man
position as one
who
appearing
with impunity.
passage at
p.
^
This interpretation
is fully
508 D.
52
|'
42
PLATO'S COUaiAS.
68
to
me
me, as you do; and our two foreign friends here, Gorgias
and Polus, are no doubt wise and kindly disposed towards
me, but they are somewhat deficient in frankness and are
rather
to
you
hear you
for fear
So then when I
giving me the same advice as you did to your most intimate
friends it is a satisfactory proof to me that you really have
a kindness for me. And further that you are able to speak
out your mind without any superfluous modesty, you not
only say yourself, but the speech which you made us no long
time ago fully bears out your assertion. Well then, this is
plainly the state of the case at present
if there be any
should unconsciously get spoiled.
PLATO'S GO
me
have been
fully tested
by both
69
IAS.
in our
of us,
argument
and there
that
will
must
be no
it
to
irreclaimable reprobate.
repeat to
me
all
in.
carry off
by
serve
me
right
make
call superior,
Is
of their natural
right that the great states attack the little ones, because they
c.
43
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
70
is
the same
all
what
or
is
is it
Col.
Of
Soc.
course.
many
are those
of the superior.
No doubt.
And so of the
Cat.
Bog.
Yes.
Soc.
And
just
I allow
Soc.
Is not this
share,
it is
'
fouler' to
having an equal
to be caught in a
nion of the
since
it.
and that
fair,'
Cat.
now
'
fit
to
have
Is
of modesty.
many that
it
Is
it,
or
is it
is just,
suffering
wrong
is
more
it,
PLATO'S G ORGIAS.
consists in
so
having one's
you seem
to
but by nature
too.
And
me
fair share,
71
I,
you know,
am
perfectly
aware of
all
arguing
that,
it
in
'
recurring
nature.
Cal.
trifling.
Tell
nothing else
Soc.
opinion,
Cal.
is
law.
Callicles
that's
your
is it ?
To be
sure
Well,
my
it is.
better than yourself because they are stronger than you are.
Come now
me
tell
all
it
do pray be a
little
Only,
mean by
my
good
may
Cal
Soc.
You
No by
Zethus,
whose character you assumed just now to indulge in a good deal of sarcasm against
me ; but come, do tell us who you mean by the better.
Callicles,
c.
44
PLATO'S CORGIAS.
72
mean
Cal.
Soc.
phatically.
490
Then according
to
if
the one
is
to
me
imply
to
and I am
That is
not word-
c.
this
same
place,
Cal.
No
doubt of
it.
Is
some and
less
than others
all,
all,
ought he
not, Callicles,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
8oc.
call
one that
73
is
yes or no.
Cal
SoG.
Yes
But
I do.
don't
SoG.
I understand.
skilful
have
Cal.
most
to
finest
clothes.
Cal.
Clothes indeed
Soc.
Well
Nonsense.
in shoes then
them and
The shoemaker
I dare
the largest
stock of them.
Cal.
Shoes
What
Stuff.
subjects too\
made by
iv. 4. 6, to
whom
it
is
applied with
and I think
much
also, in spite
of
Xenophon with more point and pungency than by Plato in the text.
With the next sentence compare Xen. Memor. i. 2. 37 iv. 4. 5 ; Grote,
fact
of Greece, Vol.
Hist,
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
74
mine nor
offer
one yourself?
Why
I have
'
c.
been
reproach
telling
'
me
for
it,
first
governed.
How's that
Soc.
Than
themselves,
my
friend^?
maybe made
dpxovras
commentary an
sense, but
is
not as
it
who with
an explana-
seems to
is,
man
me
The ob-
self-government or self-control.
to the case of a
dpxofJieuovs, as
make
rj
tL
What
riAiaS GORGIAS.
75
do you mean ?
Or is
I mean that every man is his own governor.
Soc.
this governing one's self not required, but only governing
What
Cal.
others
What
Gal.
do you
mean by governing
one's self?
himself.
What
Cal
simpletons
'
the temperate.'
How should
Soc.
mean
that\
Cal.
can a
But
this is
what
is
fair
dare say
he
avTiJov,
It
themselves,
is
iracpe
my
friend?'
for the
is
tL 54.
'
What
say you to
in Stallbaum's note.
Here again there is a diSerence of reading. The MSS. have ttws yap oii ;
and ov tovto. One of the two negatives must be rejected. The Zurich Editors,
Stallbaum retains this, and alters od
after Hermann, have omitted the first.
TOVTO into ovTU) in this sense
Of course I do, i. e. mean those that you call
simpletons: every one must know that this is my meaning.' Then irdi^u ye a<p6~
8pa in Callicles' reply will signify, yes indeed those are what you mean; i. e.
1
'
there
is
k.t.\.
may
call
temperate.
Set is
accommodated to
PLATGS GORGIAS.
76
indulgence
is
disgraceful,
commend
appetites, they
their
own want
of
by reason of
such men as have had
and
self-control
manhood.
For
to
ustice
ties of their
for
abili-
men ?
fail
'
'
c.
47
Upon my
Soc.
is
really
something
quite noble in the candour with which you follow out your
icar'
Swacreta.
Thucyd.
ill.
okLyapxi-'^v
iaovopiov
TroXcrevovaa,
61.
(oXtyapx^as
ctdos)
dpxovres. Kal
rjfuv jxhv
oUre
yap tj
Kara
ir6\is
STjfxoKparlav'
rd Trpdyfiara.
Kal Ka\ou<n
de iffri
5'
dW
ol
^(TTLV dvTL(XTpo(f)0's
rats /j.ovapxi'dis
Sirep
drj t7]v
f^V
iS<nrep
oXiyapxl-C-i-^
vop-os
i]
rvpavvl^ iv
So that
is
despotic
usually rendered
it
'
potentates.'
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
77
theory
virtue ?
Cal.
Boc.
Then
it
isn't
Why
at
happy.
Who
And
and we are
knoweth
if to live is to
all really
dead
body
is
we
desires reside
to
be dead,
to be dead to live?
is
fro.
And
so
and
some smart
its sus-
water into their leaky jar in a sieve perforated just like the
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
78
And
other.
means the
soul:
sieve because
it
and
is full
thing by reason of
my
its
he likened to a
be sure
this to
sents clearly
is
what
is,
want
still
to persuade
(i. e.
its
Now
all
it
repre-
manage
it
to
But now am I
making any impression upon you, and are you coming round
satisfied
to
my
who
with what
it
and
will
Cat.
c.
48
The
bit the
all?
more
something of this
sort to
as far as this
finds,
dpa
translated
may
it,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
79
Have
orderly?
moved you
at all
by what
have said to
admit that the life of order is better than that of self-indulgence, or have I not?
You have not, Socrates. For the one who has
Cal.
filled himself has no more pleasure remaining, but that is
just
is
what
full\
man
no more sensible to
pleasure of
pleasui^e or pain.
But the
life
real
much
as
possible.
No
Soc.
Then
doubt.
it's
a plover's
life^
Yes
Soc.
And
life
And now
tell
me,
I do.
to be thirsty,
are thirsty?
TrXrjpuxxr},
something similar
And
so
irXrjpoodf},
so I have translated
The
is
rot's iridov^,
or
so unlikely, that
it.
may
We
which formed the beds of mountain- torrents from Arist, Av. 226, that it had
a shrill cry; from the same play, v. 1141, that it was a river-bird; and again
from Aristotle, Hist. Anim. viii. 3. 593, b. 15, that it lived by the water it is
classed by him with the white cormorant, \apbs Xeu/cos, the K^-rrcpos and aWvia,
;
and said to live upon the fish and other waifs and strays that were
all sea-birds
thrown on shore. I have used the word plover merely as the customary rendering; the real species is I believe unknown.
PLATO'S CO noIAS.
80
what I mean, and to have all the other desires, and to be able by the enjoyment one feels in the satisfaction of them to lead a life of happiness.
49
Bravo, most worthy Callicles; only go on as you
Soc.
have begun, and mind you don't let your modesty balk you.
And it seems that / mustn't be deterred by any shyness
either.
So tell me first of all if a man in a constant state of
itching and irritation, provided he have abundant opporCal.
c.
That
is
What
may
pass his
life
happily in
^?
orator).
Just
so,
Callicles,
in scratching himself.
life
8oc.
And
if
Gal.
Yes
certainly.
Soc.
is
And
the climax of
who
tites, is
all
things of this
sort,
the
life
of those
will
Compare Phileb. 47 B.
The sense in which the word
vii. c.
-2,
Vol.
i.
p. 725, Ellis
and Spedding's
Edition.
^
to
is
87j,u-^yopos
'
any kind
of vulgar claptrap,
any
it
'
is
appears that he
rhetorical or dialectical
in short that he was ready to say anything in order to gain his point.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
What?
Soc.
low, or the
man
is
it
81
my
fine felall
that
is
pronouncing them to be
You
Soc.
is
some kind
not good ?
Well then
Cat.
same
different, I say
inconsistency of
you made at
of the truth, if
me
you say
Yes
8oc.
And
do you really
mean
Yes I do.
Then are we to suppose you to be serious and so
Soc.
enter upon the discussion of the question ?
Cal.
Oh yes by all means.
Well then since that is your opinion explain me
Soc.
this distinctly.
There is some thing I presume to which you
Cal
give the
Cal.
Soc.
name of knowledge ?
To be sure there is.
And
a thing as
Cal.
Schol,
is
such
I did no doubt.
and openly
in
stating his
convictions.
c.
50
PLATO'S GOROIAS.
82
Soc.
And you
thing or different
Cal.
Soc.
And
Cal.
Of course
Soc.
Come
courage again,
is
this,
that Callicles
thing,
Cal.
And
it is.
Socrates of Alopece
to
we
same
can't get
{^j/jlIv)
to ad-
He doesn't, does
He does not;
he ?
and I think not Callicles either,
Soc.
when he has duly examined himself For tell me this, don't
you think that those that are well off are in the opposite
mit
it.
Yes
Soc.
If then these
ill
off?
I do.
two
must not the case be the same with them as with health and
For to be sure a man is never well and ill at once,
disease ?
nor is he delivered from health and disease at one and the
same time.
Cal How do you mean ?
Take for instance any part of the body you please
496
Soc.
A man we may suppose has that
separately and look at it.
complaint in his eyes which is called ophthalmia ?
Of course we may.
Cal.
Soc.
Then,
it
is
to
be presumed, he
Soc.
can't
By no manner of means.
And again, when he gets rid of his ophthalmia,
be sound in
Quite impossible.
hi.s
does
eyes too,
.PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Soc.
unreasonable, wouldn't
Cal.
Very much
SoG.
On
it ?
so.
loses either of
them
Cal.
I agree.
8oc.
And
way
83
alternately.
so with strength
Cal.
Yes.
8oc.
And
Cal.
Certainly.
Soc.
And
supernatural) extent.
Soc.
Then
let
Did
is
hunger
mean
itself.
Cal.
eating
Painful to
when one
Soc.
be sure
hungry is pleasant.
understand
however at
is
itself is painful, is it
Cal.
I allow
Soc.
And
Cal.
Quite
Must
not
all
events hunger in
it.
so.
I then ask
62
c.
PLATO'S aORGIAS.
84
Cal.
Certainly I do.
Soc.
And
thirsty
in this plirasc of
imply pain
'
Cal
Yes.
Soc.
But
pleasure
'
Yes.
Soc.
Soc.
When
he
Cal.
To be
sure.
Soc.
That
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
Do you
is
thirsty
is
with pain
what
when he
drinks
is
thirsty
follows, that
difference.
It
Cal.
you allow
when you
Or does
say that
it
for I fancy
it
makes
is.
497
feels
perceive then
no
man
you say a
of drinking
Cal.
man
is
when one
is
Cal.
pleasure
'
presume.
drinking
'
Cal.
And
so I do.
Soc.
But
to
said
it
was impossible
to fare
feel
admitted to be possible.
Cal,
So
Soc.
Consequently to
nor pain
ill,
from what
Cal.
it
so that
it
feel
pleasure
follows that
what
is
is
pleasant
is
different
good.
is
appears.
don't
know what
ail
this
quibbling of yours
means, Socrates.
Soc.
Oh
^TL
little
may
I have followed the Zurich Editors and Heindorf in omitting the words
^x^^
'Krjpeis
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
learn
what a
clever fellow
85
me
Do
to task.
I don't
Don't do that
Gorgias.
be only
for
Callicles,
may
be
if it
fairly
brought to a conclusion.
Cal.
Oh
but Socrates
is
always like
this,
number
Gorgias; he
of trifling
and
tions, since
Soc.
Gorgias wishes
You
it.
you
and let
thirst and pleasure simultaneously.
left off,
to feel
Cal.
I allow
Soc.
And
it.
all
other cases,
to-
gether?
Cal.
It is so.
Soc.
Yes.
Soc.
But the
cessation of
what
is
is
not
do so now?
Cal.
Yes
I will;
unfailing politeness, but also interrupt the natural run of the sentence.
I take
^x^^ X77/)e?s to be a gloss on cotpl^ei. Heindorf would transfer them to CalStallbaum's defence and
licles' next reply and read oi5/c olSa 6 tl ^x^v XrjpHS.
6 Tc
interpretation of
them seem
to
me
unsatisfactory.
c.
52
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
80
Only that
Soc.
my
turns out,
it
good
is
not the same as the pleasant nor the bad as the painful; for
the one pair ceases in a
man
How
it.
good or what
is
is
painful as
what
for
is
is
Or
bad ?
if
it
is
in the
handsome
to
the
presence of beauty?
Cal
To be
Soc.
sure.
you
call
Certainly.
Soc.
Cal.
Yes
I have.
Soc.
pleased?
silly child
never seen a
silly
man
pleased before
now?
498
Cal.
I should think so
Soc.
Oh
Cal.
I have.
Soc.
And
it ?
man
pain or pleasure?
Yes.
Cal.
And which of the two are more susceptible of pleasure and pain, wise men or fools?
I should suppose there isn't much difference.
Cal.
Well even that's enough. And have you ever seen
Soc.
Soc.
^
6'rt
Cal.
Of course
Soc.
cbs
OX)
iripcov 6vT0}v
may
TavTo. ylyveraL,
are distinct
'
I have.
retreat,
be translated either as in
which
is
Stallbaum's view
as Schleiermacher understands
it.
tlie text,
or
which of the
as a repetition of
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
two seemed to you to
feel
more
87
brave ?
Cal.
if
nearly equal.
>S^c>c.
feel pleasure?
Soc.
Oh yes, keenly.
And the fools, it
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
And upon
Cal.
seems.
Both.
Soc.
In an equal degree.
Cal.
Soc.
And
feel
more pleasure?
Very likely.
So then according to you the fools and the wise
Soc.
men, and the cowards and the brave feel pain and pleasure
in pretty nearly the same degree, or the cowards more than
Cal.
the brave?
Cal.
That
Soc.
But
cowards and
is
my
opinion.
fools
bad?
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
in the
same degree?
True.
Are then the good and the bad good and bad in
pretty nearly the same degree? or the bad even in a higher
degree good and bad?
c. 53
Upon my word I don't know what you mean.
Cal,
Don't you know that you affirm that it is by the
Soc.
presence of good things that the good are good, and of evil
things (that men) are bad? and that the good things are the
pleasures, and the pains evil things ?
Cal Yes I do.
Soc.
PLATO'S aoitaiAS.
88
Accordingly in those
Soc.
is
pleasure,
Cat.
Doubtless.
Soc.
And
since good
so,
is
Cal
Yes.
Soc.
that
good, that
good?
is
pain?
is
Cal.
It
Soc,
And
is.
and
is
Cal.
Oh
Soc.
It follows
am.
yes, I
then that
all
all
Cal.
Certainly.
Soc.
And
worse the
less,
and
if
in the
more they
feel
it,
and
Yes.
Cal.
Well and you admit don't you that the wise and
the fools, the cowards and the brave, are about equally accessible to pleasure and pain, or the cowards even more so?
Yes I do.
Cal.
Aid me then in reckoning up the results we obtain
Soc.
from our conclusions. For, to be sure, as the saying is,
499 'twice yea thrice is it good to repeat fair things^' and reconsider them. We say that the wise and brave man is good,
Soc.
don't
we
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
Cal.
Soc.
A proverb derived,
dh yap
cles, Kal
8 Set
kuXov iarcv
754 B
XII.
956
Sts
E.
Kal
ivi<rwecv,
It
from a verse
of
Empedo-
Karsten's collection.
VI.
rph yap
k. t. X.
PLATO'S GOEGIAS.
Cal
Yes.
Soc.
And
Cal.
Necessarily.
Soc.
And
one that
more
pain bad
feels
89
Hke
susceptible of
bad even
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
So then
is
the bad
or
bad
in the
is
identical with
good
Is
To
tell
like a child.
Just as
if
I or
it?
I have translated
loi/
io^ as
an exclamation
mirantis et exultantis
after
follows, in
Callicles
another
'
like
a baby.'
Callicles,
Upon
the
54
riATO'S aORGIAS.
90
Cal
Yes.
Are
injurious Imd
tlien those
^oc.
Certainly.
Soc.
And
is
Cal.
and
tlic
Cal.
that
tliat
effect
is
bad
something
?
I believe so.
Cal.
No doubt.
And so with
Bog.
sort
to choose
and try
to bring about
Cal.
To be
Soc.
And
Cal.
Evidently.
we
are
sure.
Because
Cal.
No
Soc.
Is
it
if
doubt.
tion
is
selec-
Cal.
Professional knowledge.
PLATO'S GOEGIAS.
Then
Soc.
us recal to
let
I said,
if
91
mind what
you
was saying to
that there were
recollect,
55
c.
And
medicine.
don't be so
ill
or answer at
what
to take
this subject
random contrary
I say as if
mean what
course of
yourself,
joking.
is
man
me
to
/ were
Callicles,
life
of the smallest
whether
it
now a
business as you do
study
and what
Perhaps then
it is
in
days, or this
life
of philosophical
differs
them first, as
when
and
we have done that and
it is
I attempted to do before,
come
to
et
o^re Kapv'
e/c
(popfjiidos
tw
Compare
/3iw.
deufihois.
The explanation
is
its pai-ts
by the introduction
of the dual.
Schema Pindaricum
In
is
it
usually does
or Boeoticum
{ivrjv
it
Hence
thiae,
'
'iar*
yap cvk
PLATO'S aOROIAS.
92
be adopted.
Perliaps
now you
my
meaning.
Cal.
No
Soc.
Well
indeed
I don't.
I will explain it
more
Now
clearly.
that you
and
good,
is
a particular
mode
and
of pursuit
assent to as
much
but
of all let
first
as this or not
me
do you
I do.
Cal.
Well then to proceed, let us come to an understanding about what I was saying to our friends here, and see
whether you think that what I then said was true. What
I said was if I remember right, that cookery seems to me
medicine an
to be no art at all but a mere empirical habit
501 art meaning that the one, that is medicine, has inquired
into the nature of that which it treats and the causes of what
but the
it does, and can give an account of each of them
other enters upon the pursuit of the pleasure which is the
object of all her care and attention quite unscientifically,
without having bestowed any consideration upon either the
nature or the cause of pleasure, and proceeds in a manner
c.
56
Soc.
may
say,
calculation, a
recollection
Now
her pleasures \
consider
first
of all
Compare
physics.
It
is
it
there
may
Meta-
PLATO'S OORGIAS.
is, it
93
may be
pleasures
is
when the
pleasure alone
is
studied
without any regard to the better and the worse. And you
now, do you coincide with us in opinion upon this matter or
dissent
Cat.
Not
I assent
I,
And
is
in order that
I oblige
my
you
may get
through
one
soul,
or
many?
Cat.
Soc.
Not so,
Then is
it is
it
them in a mass
what is best?
possible to gratify
at
all
Cal.
Yes.
Boc.
And
Cinesias
was one
florid school of
dithyrambic composers,
same
who
its
modern
musical accompaniment by
or
judges had
its
these innovators.
modern dithyrambic
flights
and
in the person of
PLATO'S GOnaiAS.
94
what
Cat.
There
mob
of spectators?
no doubt about
is
case at least.
Soc.
And
liis
is
Or
rather,
if
that,
it
Which
or not ?
is
to"
the
but
if
is
the fashion
There
can't be
tators.
Soc.
just
now
Well but
this
Certainly
Soc.
Again,
if
we
we
said
did.
Callicles,
is flattery.
Cal.
Cal.
kind of proceeding,
No doubt
And this
of
is
stript of its
melody
it.
prose
is
people.
Cal,
It
is.
foil.
Compare Nub.
foil.
earlier
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
^oc.
Consequently poetry
Cal.
So
Soc.
And
You
is
95
appears.
it
so it will
tise rhetoric?
Cal
Yes
Soc.
I do.
we
of,
because
we
say
it is
of
Quite
so.
Very
good.
c.
58
That's enough.
For
if this
one
improve to the utmost the souls of the citizens, and the earnest striving to say what is best, whether
tempt, that
is,
to
more
or if
But
orators, let
me
PLATO'S (JORGIAS.
96
No, by
Cal.
my
faith, I can't
one, at
any
Well then, can you name any one of those of bygone days to whom the Athenians are indebted for any imSoc.
For
my own
for
Cal.
mistocles
who
is
don't
know who
it is.
lately
dead\
Yes,
Soc.
part
whom you
Callicles,
The-
of
Pericles
if
admit in
the argument that followed, that those desires only which
improve a man's character by their gratification should be
is
is
to
c.
He will
all
other
in view, selecting
work not
at
random, but
all
if
supposition
is
either
or
it
twenty-four years.
you
is
engaged upon.
Look
veuari here
for the
laid
perhaps
c.
word
latitude
of a period of
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
of
them you
please,
how each
97
a fixed order, and forces the one part into conformity and
harmony with the other, until he has constructed a regular
and well ordered whole; and the same may be said you know
of all other artists; and so with those that we were speaking of just now that deal with the body, trainers and physicians, they likewise it would seem introduce order and system
Do we admit
Let
it
be as you
that this
is
so or not?
say.
Soc.
will
Cat.
I allow that.
Boc.
And
Col.
Yes.
Soc.
And
same
bodies do
we admit
the
principle?
Col.
Yes
Soc.
And how
will
own
certainly.
by disorder that it
order and harmony ?
Is it
It
Soc.
And
is.
the
name
and harmonies of
PLATO'S CORGIAS.
08
the soul
is
men
are
made
Do you
control.
Be
Cal.
c.
GO
it so.
So then it
of science and
8oc.
man
self-
is
virtue, will
have regard
applying to
in
conform
it,
or
all
his actions
and
if
he give any
if
how
this,
and eradicate
to
will
take
he
gift
will give
it,
injustice, to
engender self-control
other virtue
all
I agree.
Cal.
Soc.
To be
Cal.
Yes.
in the interpretation of
this
any
at
all,'
i. e.
to read, rovvavTiov,
was
passage,
who
entire abstinence.
-fj
'
ihra bisweilen
um
MSS.
authority.
raehr dient,
nichts
Schleiermacher renders
it
'
doing harm
;*
but this
is,
is
Everything which
is
vicious or depraved
But a
life,
for example,
may
it
is
moral depravity
in an unhealthy
ought to
be, or bad.
you have
in view.
PLATO'S GORGIAS,
99
when a man is in health, the physicians for the most part allow him to gratify his appetite, as
for instance to eat as much as he pleases when he is hungry
or drink when he is thirsty, but a sick man they never so
Soc.
And
so again
Yes
Soc.
And
the same
Do you
full.
I do.
with the
as long as
soul,
it is
my
in a
excellent friend,
is
it
not
Cal.
I assent.
presume
Soc.
For
Cal.
No doubt of it.
And is not restraining
Soc.
correcting
so I
it is
desires
him ?
Cal.
Yes.
Soc.
Then
correction or restraint
is
I don't
Soc.
Here's a
man that
can't bear to
else.
standard
dosf.
100
Cal.
Yon must
Soc.
Well they
we have no
that
riglit to
it,
that
it
till
leave off
we have
So pray finish your answers, that our argument may have a head too.
What a tyrant you are, Socrates if you will take
Cal.
my advice, you will let this argument drop, or else carry on
the conversation with some one else.
Who else ivill then ? Surely we ought not to leave
Soc.
less
61
Scay
tliat
c.
decide
monster.
off
finished.
it is
continuously in your
own
it
by
person, or (by
yourself, either
way
of dialogue)
is
And
so as
false in this
common
it
be made plain.
for it
is
Well then I
seems to me
any of the admissions that I make to myself appear to any one of you to be untrue, it is his duty to
lay hold of it and confute me.
For to tell you the truth
neither do I myself say what I say as having any certain
knowledge, I am only engaged with you all in a search and
therefore if any one that disputes my assertions appear to
have right on his side, I will be the first to admit it. This
however I say on the supposition that you think the argument ought to be finished but if you don't like that, let
us drop it and go home.
Well my opinion is, Socrates, that we ought not
Gor.
to go away yet, but that you should finish your argument
and I believe the rest of the company agree with me. For
to be right
but
if
PLATO'S GOBGIAK
am
in fact I
remainder by yourself
Well to be sure, Gorgias,
Soc,
my own
glad on
101
my
greatest benefactor.
Go
Cal.
end of
on,
my
good
by
sir,
and make an
yourself,
it.
Then
Soc.
me
argument
Are pleasure and good the same thing?
Callicles and I agreed.
Is pleasure to be
listen to
c.
62
as
pursued for the sake of the good, or good for the sake of
pleasure
which by
we
its
by
its
And
Just
so.
is
But
it
In
7?iy
necessarily
further,
that
is
so.
again soul or any living creature whatsoever, cannot be acquired best by accident
it
must be due
That
is
to that particular
assigned severally to
my opinion.
So
then the virtue of everything implies order and harmonious
arrangement ? / should say so. In everything then it is by
the introduction of some kind of order, that viz. which is
proper to each, that this is in every case made good ? I
each of them.
Is that so
is
certainly
so.
with order
is
orderly
Of course
it
is.
And
PLATO'S CORGIAS.
102
'temperate'?
is
Go
my
good sir.
I proceed then to say, that if the temperate soul is
Soc.
good, that which has the properties contrary to temperance
and that was one that is
or soundness of mind^ is bad
devoid of sense and self-control? No doubt. And further
Cat.
on,
what is right and proper tow^ards men, his actions will be just,
and towards the gods pious but a man who does what is
just and pious must needs be a just and pious man ? It is so.
And to be sure he must be brave too for certainly temperance
;
call
of duty.
'
'
c.
The
mens sana
in
new
in corpore sano
which view
(its
dfppoatjpr].
We
have seen
it
hitherto
it is
unre-
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
cany him, and
sible to
103
but
contrive
if
if
pos-
he do require
either himself or
throuofh
life,
and
upon
the attempt to
efforts
this
own
grow without
restraint,
and so
satisfy
life
of a robber.
'
the
name
or licence
of
'
order
'
to
(unrestraint).
But you
^
2
**0f
That
is,
all
men
else
Macbeth.
which assigns to every man what is his due in accordand to every thing its due rank and place in a given system.
proportion
104
wrong
all,
is
it
in the
c.
me
from the
worst of
city, or,
in such a condition
put
all,
my
of
me
my
to death
(is
this)
have
and
and though
be
to
my
purse cut or
wound me
my
it
has
no reason why
disgrace, or to
property, or expel
is
But
of all infamies.
me
is
it
I deny, Callicles,
the worst of
all
mine wrongfully is more disgraceful and worse aye and stealing besides and kidnapping
and housebreaking, and in a word any wrong whatsoever
done to me or mine, is worse and more disgraceful to the
doer of the wrong than to me who suffer it. All this, which
has already been brought before us in an earlier part of our
509 discourse in the way that now I state it, is bound down and
fastened though the expression may appear somewhat too
with arguments of iron and adamant, as it would
strong^
that to strike or
or
dypoiKOTcpov
is
literally
'too
by the absence
of
may
have rendered
tion,
as
it;
or by a
want
Stallbaum understands
of modesty,
which
it
in fact
diflfer
PLATO'S GOliGIAS,
105
seem
more
For
at
I for
my
am
ignorant of
all
evil, so
likewise
is
Is it so, Calli-
or otherwise?
Not otherwise.
Soc. Then of the two, doing and suffering wrong, we prenounce doing wrong to be the greater, and suffering it the
lesser evil. What provision then must a man make for helpCat.
namely which arise from not doing and not suffering wrong
Is it power or will ? What I mean is this. Will a man escape
suffering wrong by merely wishing not to suffer it, or will he
escape it by procuring power to avert it?
.^
it
ai'crxtVxTjj/
with
^orjdeiaif,
so that he
I have, with
uncommon
by coupling
is
in the translation.
This blunder
c.
65
PLATO'S GORfJIAS.
106
enough, by power.
Cat.
Soc.
wrong?
to doing
Is the
mere
wont do
power or
practise
be provided, because
art
it
it? or
he
will
do v^rong?
This
your answer,
ticularly v^^ant
if
is
Callicles,
so
me
tell
at once
whether you think there was any real necessity or not for
Polus and me to admit as we did in the foregoing argument
that no one desires to do wrong, but all that do wrong do it
against their
510
Cal.
will.
Let
it
your argument
Soc
Then
may
get
finished.
for this
purpose again,
it
seems,
v^^e
art, to
must pro-
avoid doing
wrong.
c.
man
is
like.'
I hope
Cal
Yes
And
men
of old tell us of
'
like to
me?
I do.
so
heart?
Cal.
It
is so.
PLATO'S GOUGIAS.
Soc.
to himself,
friend of one
107
who was
far inferior
would
attention due to a
friend.
Yes.
Soc.
Accordingly
>r
Is it not so?
if in
he
path
it
earliest
seems to
follow, to
years to feel
make
Cal
Yes.
Soc.
And
hasn't he
he
so
Cal.
No
Soc.
And from
he
is
doubt of
to use your
a lasting* im-
own
language,
it.
to resemble the
influence with
if
him?
Nay I
It
all
seems
Wont
they ?
so.
diareTrpd^erai,
498.
PLATO'S GO no IAS.
108
You have the oddest way, Socrates, of twisting arguments every now and then and turning them upside down.
Don't you know tliat this imitator, as you call him, will put
Cal.
to death
strip
if
he pleases, or
my
you
Indeed
I do,
what
me
if
he pleases, but
will
it
have to
be a
say, that
he
villain killing
may
kill
an honest
man.
Cal.
Well and
isn't this
one's indignation?
Soc.
You
Not
man
in a
of sense, as our
argument
indicates.
a man's efforts
all
you bid
me
which
in courts of justice?
c.
Cal.
Soc.
No faith
And yet
not
art
I.
them
men from
in
it
may
of a couple of obols
be from JEgina,
or
if it
it
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
as I
safe
women
said just
self
(i. e.
landed them
mas
now
109
all
in the
harbour
fare
its
when
has
it
a couple of drach-
is
He
cannot be that a
man who
has
is
miserable in that he
from him at
all
and
whether
on,
it
you please
is
so
is
in the soulthat
is
many
laden with
much more
he, I say,
precious
should be allowed
service in
him
rescuing
No,
he knows that
This
who
why
it is
it
is
better for
he must needs
live
else
man
in a
ill.
self airs,
or any one
much
as a general
to say
nothing of a pilot
else.
is
it
for
he would have plenty to say for himself Still you none the
less look down upon him and his art, and as a term of reproach would nickname him 'the machine maker,' and you
wouldn't consent to bestow your daughter upon his
son.
c.
68
no
PLATO'S GOROIAS.
And
yet
on the
'
how he may
best
pen
to
if
to live,
and
now
so
make yourself as
you mean to gain
the
Athenian people,
its affections
city.
bound
and Ast,
fiy}
implied in
ovKovv,
which
is
jut]
and
yap tovto
iariov, as
it
so often
is
is
dr)
xp(>^ov k.t.X.
me
intolerably
^fjv
awkward.
is
The
validity of Stallbaum's
have found
it
difficult to
;'
r/
but he would
a similar emphasis.
etprjTai
is
TLe negative
It seems to
in other cases.
Editors, which
adopted by
Stallbaum,
eavToh KaKo,
iin(nrci}/J.ifU)v.
Suid.
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
Ill
and with Demus the son of Pyrilampes to boot. Whoever therefore shall produce in you the nearest possible
resemblance to them, he it is that will make you a statesman, in the sense in which you desire to be a statesman, and
a rhetorician for with words accommodated to their own
character every body is pleased, but such as are adapted to a
foreign one they dislike
unless you have any thing to say
faith
to the contrary,
my
Some how
darling.
Have we
(insinuatingly) any-
say.
But
I feel as
me
to c. 69
most people
do, I
has planted
itself
in your soul
and
resists
me,
Callicles
Demus
;
but
if
perhaps we were
to
Cal.
Be
Soc.
And
Bead
it so, if
you
please.
X^yo/iev with v.
1.
and Stallbaum.
is
to
make
that which
give Xiyufic/,
112
we have
cliarge
of,
whether
it
be body or
soul, as
good aa
possible?
Cal.
Yes, no doubt.
Soc.
For without
possible?
of those
who
this,
to
to
Are we
its citizens
object to be in undertaking
virtuous.
assume this?
Yes, by
all
means,
if
ever erected any building for private use, either for one of
is
hand-
jam
The
facere instituit.
It
would be more
fully rendered
course.'
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
113
Yes, certainly.
Gal.
And
Soc.
stance^
it
we had undertaken
the
our
rest;
let
us
see,
it
first
how
70
and
office of state-physicians,
now,
c.
Marry
own body?
or has
any one
else, slave or
free
man
or
woman,
in heaven's
name,
art, as
the saying
And
now,
my
it
would be
them
to do the
excellent friend, as
life,
made any
was before?
any one of them who was before wicked, unjust and
licentious and foolish, and by Callicles' means has been made
an honest man, stranger or citizen, bond or free? Tell me,
Callicles, if any one examines you thus, what will you say?
ever yet
Is there
rd T
(itXXa,
ko-I...
PLATO'S aOJiaiAS.
114
What human
will
business ?
You
Nay
Cal.
Bog.
is
it
man
duty as a public
we
shall find
else in
We
is
to say,
Have we
admitted
for
{r)ixlv)
possible.
for
you
is
put the
it
or not?
Pericles,
tell
me
citizens.
Yes I do.
Well then if they were good, it is plain that every
Soc.
one of them made the citizens better than they were before.
Did they do so, or not?
Cal They did.
Accordingly when Pericles began to speak before
8oc.
Cal.
when he made
his
speeches?
Cal.
Perhaps.
8oc.
Not
2^6^'haps at all,
my
very good
if
at least
sir:
it
follows
he was a good
statesman.
Cal.
Soc.
tell
me
ment
by him.
is this,
made
the
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
115
You
hear
all
Socrates.
8oc.
and
Aye but
this I don't
know
full
What
Soc.
At
all
make
Pericles a
bad man?
c.
who had
from
all
propensity
to
all
these
tricks out
of
Oh
Soc.
Then
yes,
by
all
oblige
question whether
man
me
still
too
is
no?
Cal,
Of course he
Soc.
And had
Cal
Yes.
Soc.
is.
not, as
man ?
I have here taken a liberty with the Greek text by substituting the nose,
mark
the ears which told the same tale to the Athenian public.
The
unpatriotic
'Laconisers,' the admirers of Spartan habits institutions and policy, are here
indicated.
82
72
116
to
if
Yes certainly.
Well and the just are tame and
Boc.
said^ But what say you? Is it not so?
Cal.
Cal.
gentle, as
Homer
Yes.
Boc.
And
Cal.
Be
accordingly
if
wilder,
worse.
it so.
And
in
517
This
is
No, not
Soc.
So then what we
so,
do you?
I.
said before
Od)/ss. ^'.
120.
was
true, that
we know
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
117
titled to
all
However
them by persuasion
way
to them, leading
or compulsion to that
all this so
same images
in
understand me.
my
illustration that
And
easily
c.
73
PLATO'S aORGIAS.
118
maker
who takes
it
is
by every
one, that
is,
who
is
not
right to
make
in
it
and a
knows what is good
FLAWS
GORGIAS.
moment when
offer
them any
119
advice, just at
was without the least regard to what is wholesome, has at length, it may be ever so long after, brought
disease upon them, them they will accuse and find fault with
and do them a mischief if they can, whilst they will applaud
ried on as
it
And
with
all
made the
And
but that
city great:
is
that
all
they originally had into the bargain, they will probably lay
you don't take good care, and my friend Alcibiades, who though not the immediate authors of all the
mischief are yet perhaps partly to blame for it. There is
however one senseless thing which I see happening now, and
hold of you,
men
hear of the
the city
if
doer, I hear
them venting
treatment
'
:
so then
long and valuable services to the city the return she makes
injustice
and
entirely false.
ruler of a city
^
*'
ruin,'
But
all this is
For there
Where
It
is
ia
is
a dropsical honour."
Well,
ii.
3.
124.
120
J'
LAWS
a ORG IAS.
For
rule.
tlie
case appears to
The
art.
That men
after they
have
been made good and just, after all their injustice has been
eradicated by their teacher and justice planted in its stead,
should commit injustice by means of that wdiich they have
Does not this seem to you absurd, my friend? You
not.
have really forced
me
to
make
by
refusing to answer,
c.
75
Cal.
Yes, I do think
Soc.
train
520
men
C'a^.
so.
Yes
I do.
But what
is
And what
to
is
to
is
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
121
But you
want
thing, and
Whereas
in truth sophistic
for
is
a finer
superior
is
them or else
very same words charge themselves
behaving
by these
ill
to
as w^ell with
Yes, quite
Soc.
so.
have the power of bestowing their services freely without fee or reward, if what they say were
true.
For a man when he has received any other benefit, as
to all probability to
for instance if
fast
by a
trainer,
it
moment
is
of imparting to
Cal.
Soc.
And
in ques-
so if
is
isn't it?
this par-
afraid of
ed
for
supposing
I allow
Soc.
This then,
men
that
good.
is,
that any
Is it not so ?
it.
disgrace in taking
it
appears,
money
is
the reason
why
there
is
no
Soc.
So it seems.
But about this particular process of making a
man
c.
76
PLATO'S GOnaiAH.
122
as good as possible,
to
manage
state, it in
to the best
reckoned
money
dis-
Isn't it?
it.
Cal
Yes.
if not,
521
Cal.
Is this as I say
is.
Then
me
tell
definitely
me
Tell
me
all
now and
fairly
tell
and
frankly.
Then,
/S'oc.
play the
my
it
me
to
flatterer.
Cal. {angrily).
like
Cal.
You may
The proverb
Mdo-wj' Xe^a
is
call
yourself a Mysian^,
you don't do
if
you
as I say
it
'
it
when
inflicted
designation of Mysian, like that of Carian, passed into a by-word and a terra
of reproach.
Socrates
had implied
if
you may
call
if
he took
;
to this
you
please,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
123
ill
if
(mischievously, to his
own
if
detriment).
Cal.
am
justice
me
think
exempt from
Of this however I
am
if I
is
risks
there
Aye
Would
8oc.
only
man
and that
am
the only
my
am
to death.
hearers
is
man
of the present
all.
not w^hat
those fine
aim
at
what
is
am
best,
is
See note
2, p.
98.
c.
77
PLATO'S GOUGIAS.
124
And
now be
shall
may
man
like this
cured
and
juniors
if
me
by perplexing
their
for
whom
and
it is
them
your
interest, alone, o
'
all
my
am serving in acting thus,' or indeed anything else. And therefore very likely there is no saying what
my fate may be.
Cal Do you think then, Socrates, that a man in such a
judges, that I
PLATO'S G ORGIAS.
\2o
a city
Soc.
if
all possible
'
Now
were I to be convicted
rendering help of this kind to myself or
kinds of self-help.
of incapacity for
ashamed whether
few or by myself alone and
my
many
or
this
it
if
want of your flattering rhetoric that I died, I am very sure you would see me meet my
death with calmness and composure. For death itself no
man fears, unless he be an absolute fool or coward it is
doing wrong that a man fears for to arrive at the world
But
be vexed.
if it
were
for
'
'
most of
tale to
Cal.
all
evils.
And
now,
if
many
you
offences
please,
is
I'll
rest,
the uttertell
you a
you may
as
;'
which you,
Ho
79
am
about to say
man who
c.
n. XV. 187
foil.
PLATO'S aORGIAS.
126
there were in
tlie
still
more
are in
of
men
them
brought to
an end
And
judged.
ill
to this.
Now
many, said
alive.
he,
man
all
moment
and
the judgment
may be
just.
Knowing
relations
him upon
all this
and with
earth that
before j^our-
judgment
two
lead,
in the
Meadow
one to the
whence the
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
127
And
leo-e
tence) in case of doubt on the part of the other two, that the
this.
Death, as
soul
retaining
its
it
its
its
is
seems to me,
And
it
For instance,
if
and
any
when a man's
soul
is
which the man's soul contracted from his various habits and
pursuits, are visible in it.
So as soon as they are arrived at
the place of judgment, they of Asia before Rhadamanthus,
c.
80
128
525
left
full
of distortion
81
and
it
ugliness.
away
he has
in disgrace straight to
its arrival it is
its
When
doomed
to endure
due.
Now
those
who
men
hung up
house
as signal
if
what Polus
examples
is
tells
And
us
is
true,
affairs of states
for
they by reason of
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
129
the licence that they enjoy are usually guilty of the greatest
transgressions.
Homer
too
is
a witness to
the truth of this; for he has introduced kings and lords, Tan-
men who
Still there is
men
amongst
these,
has
full
number
of such
for true it is
men
all
And
all
is
But
man's or any
life
other's, especially as I
of a philosopher
he
own
is
business,
and
Precisely
c.
82
PLATO'S GOIiaiAH.
130
the same
sits
is
in
in
his
And
hand.
But Minos
sits
Homer
its
healthiest condition.
And
all
other
men
my
ability,
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
private and public
life;
that
if
131
and that
any
in
good in the
second degree, next to being just to become so, and to be
and that all kinds of flattery,'
corrected by punishment
respect,
he
is
to be corrected
this is
'
and
moment; such
is
life is best,
and
and invite
invite
me
all
and
to die.
These then
to: for
let
you put
and
faith
Callicles.
92
us
c.
83
Addendum
Unhappy,'
is
to note (2)
220,
similarly
'
as
the
illustrating
And
98.
p.
Trench notes in
his Select
employed, with-
case,
and of
all
that
is
latter,
The moral
word 'base'
The exact converse of this is
under
application of the
shown
includiug
apto-rot, dpLo-rfje^,
in the earlier
Kechte, and similar terms by the old Germans; which are bestowed
upon the nobility, the men of rank and wealth, of the highest
social and political importance in the state.
See more on this latter subject in Donaldson's New Cratylus,
321 327, and Welcker, Theognis, In trod. p. xxi foil to which
Dr Donaldson
refers.
The
'virtue'
which
is
ascribed to
is
more compre-
133
hensive sort which
This
is
is
apparently overlooked by
Dr Donaldson when
he says,
Art. 327, "it was because the better classes, having no tempta-
fix
but the
dpeTt],
and the
exercises which
or virtus, which
and
them actually to excel whilst
the same circumstances would admit and encourage the exercise
of generosity, liberality, courtesy, affability, and those other
shining qualities by which especially in rude and simple times the
popular imagination is most captivated.
classes,
it
allowed, enabled
APPENDIX.
KOTE A.
memory
Callicles' bad
The
and restoration of
As
this
much vexed
interpretation
awkward
far too
is
es decore;
but
to be found in
make
Next,
conspicuous.'
the passage,
StaTTpeVets
notoriety;
whence
it
atcrxpw?
may
turpiter
StaTrpeVets being,
be translated
'
disfigure
'
or
'
insignem reddis:
disgrace.'
Stao-rpec^et?,
thinks StaTTpeVetg corrupt, hesitates whether to accept this inexcusable false quantity or Grotius' vox nihili, StarpeTretg.
As
piodorus in his
by Plato
ing
we
are told
yvvaiKOfXLfjLio is
by Olym-
substituted
Apollonius of Tyana,
KOfXifJiw ixopcf>(i>fjiaTi
is
iv. 21, p.
160, referred to
readlife
of
StaTrpeTTCtv.
seem from
pides' text
to
qualify
to
StaTTpeVcti/.
is
remark
as follows
in his
:
;
APPENDIX.
"A^^iov
dix\ei<s
135
ac
cTTt^eXettr^at
(Sv
Set*
8ta7rpe7rcts ixoptpixifxaTL.
yuj/atKOjtxt/xo)
seems to
me
i/^vx^s...<j?)ucrts
cru
quite un-Euripidean. I
aio-xpw? T T^5
coSc
cri^s
StaTrpcTrcig,
cjivacv
\l/v)(rj<s
To
Nauck, Trag.
iXPW
more
^^^
^^
Grceo.
Fragm.
poetical.
remembered
is
it is
and
employs
Besides
(x/xeXeti/
this,
and
cTrt/xeXeto-^at
seems to
Of Nauck's reading
e;((ov
<^v(nv,
iv
BLKr]<s
J3ovXaL<TLV op^cu?
KVTL
av
ovt
"TrpoOeto TTiOavov^
o/x.tX7y(rtas,
acTTrtSo? ttotc
The words
ovt av ao-TrtSos
av Xoyov
o/xiXT/o-ctas
tl.
hint of Olympiodorus.
This likewise
is
it
Xa/3ot9,
Ktti
13G
much more
l)iit
difficult to
to
structed by Valck(;naer.
to
me
^cDv,
Except that
for Travcrat
actSojv.
Nauck, from
/xeXioSwi^, Vjut
8'
I cannot see
it
Travo-at
that
all
is
ikiy-
Aristopli.
/xeXwSwi/
seems
aoihuiv it
how
8'
Greek language,
this
disposed to deny.
It has not been observed that the injunction loiavT aeiSe comes
in rather oddly after the
by the reference
it
may be
qualified
achievements,' exclusively.
the mistake
however
pi'i/^oi/
may have
is
corrupt;
aetScoi^
and
in the
line before.
Note
This
school
'
is,
have
little
B.
doubt, the Pythagorean.
is
First,
APPENDIX.
c.
And
XVI.
137
this
And Bockh
u.
s.
and
dfjivr]To<s,
wise, Phced.
and
crw/xa
and
aetSTjs
50 D and 81c);
authorities cited
by him
is
and
o-iy/za,
to
all
Trt^avos
my mind
i7i
and
Heraclitus' claims
may be despatched
what
is
bodies, there
case.
The
and the
equivalent to
is
it),
He
is
and though he
said
(or
303,
life is
death
authorities
Scholiast,
who
The
notice.
first is
which he says
suit
tj
'IraXtKo?,
But
at all events he
PLATO'S aouaiAs.
138
tlier in
In
illustration of the
das dicliterische
Gewand
dialogue, p. 378.
Denn
Gedanken durchschim-
sei,
Aufnahme
reiuerer
p.
493
to
D,
494 A (and he
E, ov
yap
(9av/xa-
lay any
stress
anerkennt, sondern
nur den
anschaulichen Ausdruck
bildlich
said of the
Wege
sicher
Myths; with
and
them
poetical imaginations
macher in
his note
on the passage,
p.
is
Schleier-
own
is
and means to
it
';
APFENJDIX,
Note
The
ship
"
and
Now
Dr
late
Donaldson, in his
Classical
well
it is
C.
little
it is
Classical Scholar-
253, writes
p.
thus
so often rendered
fectly trained,
book on
Learning, Appendix,
known
139
so partially, but
'
altogether
can be so at
it
all,"
Hermann had
it
'
To
and
as in Thucydides,
ov,
AcvKttXtWos
Kttt
-q
l.
8,
dWd
rd
fxlv tt/oo
7rLKXr]cn<; avrr)
"EAXiyvos tov
though
it is
true
that by some caprice of language usage has attached the same signification to
them
is
that this
is
common
of the
two
all
when
it
occurs,
may
*not quite'
and
',
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
140
tically the
as
when no
As
absolutely not,'
'
irony at
lies in this,
sufficiently applicable,
Thus
of either interpretation.
seems to
it
is
sujjport
me
that
it is
by the
ironical
em-
really
'
always regarded as at
That
this is
is
in his
may
verbal irony.
Bp
Thirlwall,
II.
which enables the speaker to convey his meaning with greater force by
means of a contrast between his thought and his expression, or, to speak more
figure
and
But there
is
is
it is
It
kind of
is this
irony which here gives character to the expression; and I need hardly point
out
more
in conformity
vades and
trast
with the
characterises the
spirit
is
to the
ai-e
put,
of the con-
between the reality and the outward appearance which constitutes the
very essence of Tragic pathos, than the sharp, flippant, querulous, " not at all
In fact
of an enviable condition," which is the rendering of Dr Donaldson.
when we look
of view,
it
may
may
from
this point
is
to
is
CEdipus Coloneus
is
this
to this author.
In ^Eschylus
it
never occurs at
all:
nor does
it
appear in the
APPENDIX.
the naked statement of the
fact.
141
examples
Still,
may be produced
In Xen. CEcon.
(T)(oX(x^LV
KaOrjaaL
irdvv to
'
t>7
we have
tl,
raye TrXetcTTa
cttci
Trdvv a)(oXdt,ovTa iv
tween being
vii. 1,
yj
Here
dyopa.
actively engaged
ov /xoiXa ctw^ws
'Io-xo/>iax,
TrpaTTovrd tl opw
ere
and
'
<3
'
not at
'
Cyrop.
K.T.X.
4.
II.
13, at
pxv
ov Trdvv iv ixvpot';.
otKT^creis
is
ov
rj
is
be-
were
ov
all idle,
all.
In
is,
as the
Armenia, and from the oprj p.ivToi that follows, that the meaning intended is ^not very strong positions,'
country spoken of
is
all strong.'
27. idv
4.
II.
fx-q
said of viii. 2.
>;
TreSov.
is
is
also
his list
however
first,
I have
by no means
is
complete.
memory
it is
comparatively rare.
In Caravella's very
"nothing at
76, 902.
all,"
ix-qhk
In Thucydides
ples, VIII.
38.
Trdvv in the
it
same
o{>bev -irdw
at all as..."
Trdvv, Lysistr.
588.
appears from B^tant's Lexicon that there are only two exam-
of
them indeterminate.
It first becomes
tolerably frequent in
viel
is,
Weisk.
o{)
Trdvv,
He
refers also to V. 9.
s.
satia
26 as a similar
PLATO'S GORGIAS.
142
example given
is
to,"
ixijxovvTai
haudquaquam.
maybe
is
Crit.
Again, ov
I.
jjXv
tj
Neaer. 1347.
Here,
in Keiske's Index.
Adv.
seldom found.
ov Trdvv,
it,
ydp
did
In
differently.
297, in interpreting
'*
I agree
omnino non,
is
no occasion at
to...
;'
all,'
or,
there
there
nothing to
is
1,
fix
Weber
fjLT]
in the milder
*'
Quippe
or
Crit.,
by the
renders
quam
as usual
it
last
Editor
seems reasonable;
qualified sense, as
In Contra Aristocr.
by
"We-
/xr^Sa/xcGg.
quomodo
ali-
id intel-
emphatic denial
is
He
conveyed.
far, if
On
Isseus,
^oXatwv ov
mann
de Nicostr. Hered.
writes thus
non
tollit
ra
1 2, Trepl p.lv
negatio
vim
adverbii, sed
crvfji-
Scho-
adverbium
APPENDIX.
negationem intendit, quasi
ovSafjiw^ yaXcTTov.
143
irdw ov yaXiirov^ h.
dicas,
There is nothing in
Travv paSioVy
e.
meaning of the two words except the general scope and intention
of this passage ; and it is certainly truer, and at least equally probable that Isseus intended to say, that in the case of
other con-
all
all orators
it is
not at all
to exaggerate, this
But
difficult.
must be
classed
as
with the
doubtful instances.
Schomann
ov
fji-q,
Phil.
(to
cos Set
ovK
(jirj/J-L,
(S'.
refers to ov /xaXa
ov^
oifjiai,
rjyovfxaiy
Dem. de
Dem.
and other
F. L. 365,
the usage
always to
In
by this transpo-
for, if it
were,
it
8.
I.
iSeav Travaicr^rjs
fjLOVLKoq 6 rrjv
Sk to-ws ^TTov
rj
t TO) K.T.X., it is
16
(c.
Svcrycvr;?
i]
/xovojtt;?
first class
less
is
at
of
the
all,'
fore ov TTctw
life.
He
that if he had
all
meant
T^Set?.
8'
ot
Here again
sometimes disagreeable
is
men
ivtoT ydp.
it is
/xct'
equally plain
The
they are
fact that
^
oil
&px^<Tdai
S'
virh
c.
^kv
cto^tj/
i, 4,
it.
aXXT^'Xots...
II.
6. 15,
oii
fidXa.
and
PLATCrH COJiGIAS.
144
^ikoi
8'
ov irdvv... clearly
dis-
posed to one another, but that their friendliness does not quite
amount
to friendship.
mean
friends who
men
Aristotle cannot
never find
may
be
nor
(2)
mean
Similarly in
found.'
founded on
'
c.
ov irdw
8'
ov8' Iv
He
had begun by saying that complaints and accubetween friends in that form of friendship which is
Tots hi TjZovrjv.
sations arise
to say that
interest,
r)
/xovr;
rj
/xaA-torra
evXoytos,
two
other kinds
Then
also.
after explaining
is
why
it
be
is
already
and not
'
never.'
sive.
Sta^eorts
toi)s
x^tpov
7]
Peknov.
He
between
difference
rarra j^ovXovrai
cfiavepov Se ort
equally deci-
8. p. 9. a. 6, is
c^ets Xiyciv,
yap twv
eTTLaTrjfxcov
Sta/ceti/rat ttws
Kara
/at)
e^^ts
and
lari ttoXv-
irdw Kari-
ttjv iTnarrjfJLrjv
e^ts.
modo
ii.
Hermogenes
irepl
tSewv,
^.
(ii.
tl,
U5
APPENDIX.
Se ov8' oAo)?, a passage
fxaWov
which,
stood alone,
if it
is
quite
Symp. 178
ctTrev,
a 8e /xaXtcrTa
k.t.X.
IcTTLv is
tion,
and by the
mean
of course
it
'
Sicjav/y/xovcvci/,
which
C.
signify
it
opinion be rendered
at
'
though
all.'
So ov
it
my
should in
B,
light of this
may
irdvv Tt Go<j>6s,
us
an unquestionable example of the milder or qualified negaov Trdvv iveOvfjirjOrjv Cratyl. 411 c, I should certainly under-
stand to
orr' av eyco
ifJbifxvrjTO
follows at p. 180
A, Travrcov /xcv
'
much
which Dr Donaldson,
op.
much
254, tells
cit. p.
more conformable
than
*'
am
altogether without
though Buttmann
Rep.
me
IV.
to
432
above
have no memory at
all,*^
In
it,
p.
or, I
chance of
same
(see
its
escaping
'
it is
-^fjioiq
than there
*
is
seems to
'
is
no
for the
ixrj
Trdvv
cra<f>u)<s
is
more natu-
though the
'
quite indistinctly
523
B,
my
Xcyco,
meaning."
Hep.
VII,
Again, ov
10
UQ
PLATO'S GOIiGIAS.
certainly
means
'
I have
parents of such a
etTTctv
twv
yovOii/
tou tolovtov
no great confidence
man/ and
in Kep. ix.
582
A, ov
irdw
sufiicient for
all
574
B,
cyojyc
ex'^)
an unqualified igno-
IX.
rance.
Rep.
indefinitely,
my purpose.
In the Gorgias
of which I have rendered it
is
tation.
As
number
of the instances
which the
but in most of
choice, con-
the modest and ill-assured tone which the hero and chief speaker
of these dialogues
the phrase
is
is
when
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