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Ludger Brmmer

Computer Music Journal, Volume 32, Number 4, Winter 2008, pp. 10-16
(Article)
Published by The MIT Press

For additional information about this article

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/cmj/summary/v032/32.4.brummer.html

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Ludger Brummer
Institut fur
Musik und Akustik
Zentrum fur
Kunst und
Medientechnologie
Lorenzstrasse 19
D 76135 Karlsruhe, Germany
lb@zkm.de
www.zkm.de/musik

Stockhausen on
Electronics, 2004

c

Computer Music Journal, 32:4, pp. 1016, Winter 2008

2008 Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Rehearsals took 40 days. Owing to the complex

choreography, the performers had to play the
nearly 50-minute-long composition completely
from memory. The stage design included triangular
sails onto which the videos, realized by Johannes
Conen and Yvonne Mohr, were projected. These
were located behind and above the performers.
These elements alone are already quite substantial,
but much more impressive was the connection of
all aspects of the work in terms of content.
In this work, Stockhausen set out to present a
kind of run-through of all the seven days of the
opera. He used the four primary colors, represented
by the costumes and the coloring of the four videos,
while in the text as well as in the video he used
the basic elements of the seven operas: stones, hills,
and water for Monday; trees, plants, and fruit for
Tuesday; animals for Wednesday; etc.
The dense interconnection of these diverse materials is central to Stockhausens way of thinking.
Everything is connected, and nothing seems arbitrary. The composition of the used elements is so
dense that nothing is left to chance, yet Stockhausen
leaves space for freedom and interpretation. It was
fascinating to watch him during the rehearsals,
throughout which he constantly adjusted the score
to the venues acoustics, the performers abilities,
and the instruments sound qualities. He would
go on until he had found the right form, which he
then fixed and which became the basis for all future
performances. It could be observed that he always
decided which parameters were suitable for being
treated more freely without jeopardizing the stasis
of the construction as such.
The supporting parameters, referring mostly to
pitch, rhythm, and duration, were not altered as
such, whereas tempi and dynamics were given interpretative leeway. It is this particular objectivity that
Stockhausen introduced by means of his constructional principles into composition. Every detail has
its own motivation. Very little is left to subjectivity,

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Computer Music Journal

In 2004, Karlheinz Stockhausen realized his work

Licht-Bilder. It was the last piece from his 29hour-long opera cycle Licht, which he had worked
on for 27 years. The production took place at the
composers studio in Kurten,
at the Zentrum fur

Kunst und Medientechnologie (ZKM) in Karlsruhe,

and at the Donaueschingen Festival of New Music
(see Figures 1 and 2).
The starting point for the composition consists
of three instruments and a tenor singer as well as
ring modulation of the flute and the trumpet, for
which a keyboard served as an interface. In addition
to the musical level, Stockhausen also devised a
choreographic score, similar to the musical one, that
directed all movements of the instrumentalists.
The work, commissioned by ZKM, Kunststiftung
NRW, and the Centre de Creation
Musicale Iannis

Xenakis (CCMIX) in Paris, was complemented by a

video production. Not only was an elaborate sound
system needed for the auditoriums at both ZKM and
in Donaueschingen, but also a complete redundant
set of stage equipment (both audio and video) in
case the first system crashed. These two sets had
to be connected in such a way that if something
went wrong during the performance, it was possible
to switch between them without the audiences
noticing.
As the three instrumentalists and the singer were
moving onstage according to the choreography, they
had to be connected to the mixing desk with wireless
microphones. Interestingly enough, Stockhausen
decided to position the speakers reproducing the
unaltered sounds directly above the performers,
just underneath the ceiling of the auditorium;
the speakers diffusing the modulated sounds were
placed behind the audience. Thus, the direct and
modulated sounds were perceptible separately yet
fused into one sound for the listener.

Figure 1. Video still image

from the premiere of LichtBilder in Donauhalle B in
Donaueschingen. From
left, Marco Blaauw, Huber
Meyer, Kathinka Pasveer,
and Suzanne Stephens.
(Photograph: Yvonne Mohr.)

Figure 2. Video still image

from the premiere of LichtBilder in Donauhalle B in
Donaueschingen. From
left, Marco Blaauw, Huber
Meyer, Kathinka Pasveer,
and Suzanne Stephens.
(Photograph: Yvonne Mohr.)

Figure 3. Frequency of the

types of performer
movements for the seven
phases of Licht-Bilder.
(Copyright Archive of the
Stockhausen Foundation

for Music, Kurten

[www.stockhausen.org].)

Figure 1

Figure 2

and thus an incredible clarity is gained, as everything

can be specified and explained. The diverse elements
often have several points of reference. A formula
used in Licht-Bilder refers simultaneously to a universally valid super formula, to a reference in the
opera, to the parts of other performers, to the colors
used, and so on.
Stockhausen obtains the density of reference
by listing parameters, filling the space between
these parameters with tables, and then linking
several of these two-dimensional tables to form a
three-dimensional parameter space. The composers
sketches in Figure 3 show two diagrams, generated
using Fibonacci proportions, for specifying the
distribution of the performers movements in LichtBilder. These diagrams form the basis from which he

deduces the values according to certain procedures

or series of numbers, respectively. His achievement
consists of knowing or intuitively sensing which
procedures or series of numbers would lead to
musical and timbral success. It is exactly this
model, aside from the acousmatic praxis, that is still
valid today for composers of electroacoustic music
to escape an ever too-subjective arbitrariness.
In the acousmatic music, the construction of the
sound elements is constantly examined by hearing,
and thus the construction and the sound act in a
dialectic way. Contrary to that approach, the serial
method of construction represented by Stockhausen
creates a musical structure by means of parameters
that then can be interpreted.
Stockhausen himself worked previously in
both fields. In Oktophonie (19901991), there
are concrete sounds, as well as in works such

as Gesang der Junglinge

(19551956), Telemusik
(1966), Hymnen (19661967), and, from the Licht
cycle, Montag (19841988), Freitag (19911994),
and Mittwoch (19951997). Here, he parameterizes
the concrete sounds, yet he works quite intuitively
at the same time. In a conversation we had, he
described the development of the spatial movement
of sounds in Mittwochs-Gruss (1998) as a way of
thinking by listening. He moved the sounds by
means of a touch screen. He did have some models
of movement in his mind, but he developed the
polyphony of movement while using these models

Brummer

11

Figure 4. Karlheinz
Stockhausen and Ludger

Brummer.
(Photograph:
Yvonne Mohr.)

all, I was curious to hear what visions he was having

at that time.
Brummer:
We are looking at four triangle-shaped

sails that are used as screens for visuals. What

function do they serve, exactly? What relationship
do they have to the performers?

and closely listening to them. As different as the

interactive method of acousmatic music is compared
to Stockhausens approach, both do have something
in common: the creation must always be verified by
human perception, and, if necessary, corrected.
Before his passing, he had already implemented
the entire audiovisual space in the global auditorium
in Osaka with the assistance of others. It is a great
pity that he will not be able to use newly developed
instruments such as the Sound-Dome at ZKM or
the wavefield-synthesis system at the Technische
Universitat
Berlin.
For practical reasons, he later returned to simpler
spatial principles such as in Oktophonie. As in many
matters, such as the serialism of Studie II (1954) or
the composition of micro-time in Kontakte (1958
1960), he tried out his ideas extensively and turned
to something different once he had shown how far
he could go. It is such totality that distinguishes the
music of Stockhausen. In many areas, he identified
new positions and at the same time fathomed the
limits of how far to go. And for whom could it be
more difficult to accept limits than for somebody
with the visionary power of Stockhausen? It is
on these grounds one must understand why after
an intensive occupation with sound synthesis he
restricted himself to a certain number of parameters
in music as well as in technology, even though he
integrated electronic music as a matter of course
into his work.
The interview presented here (see Figure 4) took
place on 10 December 2004, just a few days before
the performance of Licht-Bilder at the ZKM MediaTheatre, three years before he suddenly passed
away. In our conversation (which was conducted
in German and recently translated), I wanted to
highlight a few aspects of his ideas and to understand
his relationship to his own historic oeuvre. Above

12

Stockhausen: It has something to do with the

fact that the melodies used in Licht-Bilder come
from the whole work Licht, right from the very
beginning onfrom the past 26 yearsand they are
all connected to particular colors. Johannes Conen,
who devised the visual composition of Licht-Bilder,
decided that the right triangle should be connected
to the basset horn. The choice of using the shapes of
triangles was his, however. Johannes took over that
concept of colors as well. And in the work Licht, the
color blue is always connected with the melodies
now played mainly by the basset horn . . . and purple
with the flute and green with the tenor and orange
with the trumpet.
Brummer:
What I found very interesting listening

to the work is the fact that the ring modulator is

very integrated into the instrumental sound. Is it
your intention to augment the instruments with the
ring modulator, or is it to make the electronics not
perceptible as such?
Stockhausen: Its actually two ring modulators. One
is used for the flute and the other for the trumpet. A
ring modulator generates a chord, a double chord actually, in which whatever the musician is playing is
mirrored by an inaudible electronic tone, a sine tone.
The tones are added upward as well as downward.
This way, thank God, the chords that are created are
not heard separately, but mixedas a new timbre.
Brummer:
In this case, do the instruments still take

the center? Are the electronics an augmentation

of the instrument, or are the electronics of equal
importance?
Stockhausen: Certainly not of equal importance . . .
one cannot really hear them. Only an expert will
be aware of the fact that the harmonic timbre, if
I may call it thatthe addition of harmonies to
the instrumental tonesis in fact present. A lot of
listeners hear it and believe it is another instrument.

Computer Music Journal

It is no normal trumpet or normal flute, but an

imaginary instrument, and I like that.
Brummer:
But you also proceeded to diffuse the

sound of the ring modulator in space.

Stockhausen: That is right. The beauty of the four
performersbasset horn, flute, tenor, and trumpet
distributed over four loudspeakers above the stage
from right to left is mirrored by four speakers
behind the audiencebut much softer. And the
chords added by the electronic ring modulation
are coming from behind, like a reflected sound,
as if the room were becoming bigger. This I find
particularly beautiful: that the people sitting at the
back also have the feeling that they are close to
the sound, even though it mainly comes from the
front.
Brummer:
Why are the instrumentalists heard

through loudspeakers? Why are they not only to be

heard naturally? Why do you mix the two components, the ring modulation and the instrumental
sound?
Stockhausen: As I said before; it all is supposed to
become onea new timbre. And there is no other
solution for such a workin fact, in any work I have
written since more than 30 years agobut to project
the voices and instruments in space by transmitters
so that the sound becomes very wide and deep. And
I explained how front, back, and the relationships
change during the performance, so that one has the
impression of being within the sound and not only
being confronted by the sound coming from the
interpreters. I find that very important and also very
new in music, to listen within the sound and not
only to be confronted by it. Also, that wouldnt be
loud enough. Even in such a small venue as this
one, you would not be able to hear clearly what they
were playing and singing.
Brummer:
So you mean the microphone is a mi
croscope for the sound, for the instrument. But
nevertheless, one question: you have hung the
speakers right at the top and parallel, not directly
facing the audience. Why?
Stockhausen: For technical reasons. If you tilt them,
the danger of feedback is higher. I did think it to

be a little bit high up here, but Johannes Conen is

going to project four videos onto the triangles with
four projectors. Also, I was told yesterday, when I
asked if they could be hung a little lower, that that
would not work, as one would see their shadows on
the screens. So it just has to be the way it is. But I
always hang up my speakers quite high, as that fills
the space better and also uses possible reflections.
Brummer:
Now Id like to talk about something

else beside this particular work. You have worked

more with electronics than most other composers.
You have worked both very much with instruments
and electronics as well as with pure electronics.
What appeal has remained after you really have
gotten to know the technology and worked with
it all? In a way, it is a regression to go back to the
ring modulator, an instrument you used very early
on and with which you already wrote a few pieces.
Why this reduction?
Stockhausen: Well, Ive not always only been a
progressor as far as development and progress are
concerned. I simply really like the sound of these
timbres that are formed with unnatural relations of
harmonics. I used the ring modulator in 1956 for

special sounds in Gesang der Junglinge

and again
from time to timebecause its a matter of taste,
because I like those sounds very much. But they are
not simply timbres without any function; instead,
the function is really to also hear subconsciously
the mirroring. And the composition Licht-Bilder
operates with mirrorings. For example, the basset
horn plays certain figures, and the flute plays the
same figures in different time intervals [i.e., with
augmentation or diminution], until they meet again.
These processes of distancing and meeting again take
place again and again during Licht-Bilder. The same
applies to the tenor, too. The tenor sings particular
figures, and the trumpetI nearly said imitates,
but it is no simple imitationbut what the trumpet
is playing is also compressed and stretched in time.
At some times, it gets pretty far away from what the
tenor sung before until the two meet again exactly
synchronized, and so on. That happens multiple
times. In this way, the mirroring that is happening
musically and structurally is also repeated in sound.
A ring modulator mirrors.

Brummer

13

Stockhausen: Well, you are touching upon something that I could elaborate upon for hours. I suppose
I have to reduce it to a few sentences.
First of all, the dynamics are completely underdeveloped and very weak. During the last months
of working in the Studio fur
Elektronische Musik
at the Westdeutscher Rundfunk (WDR), I tried the
following. We had a mixer by Lavo and we could
change the volume relationships of up to 24 channels
relatively quickly with an electronic programmer.
That was a piece of equipment by Yamaha, and the
faders could go up and down one after the other
very quickly. How that was mechanically possible
very often surprised me. However, thats where I
had to stop. And this is something I would very
much like to develop further: that in a space filled

with speakers all around the audience, sounds shoot

out of the wall with different speeds, very quickly
following each otheruntil one is in a room where
one does not notice the speakers anymore and in
which sounds are something completely different
from the usual sounds that either stand still in space
or move with a certain speedby increasing the
velocity so that this is not perceived rhythmically
anymore.
So this shoots onto the listener continuously
using different dynamic levels for each event, and
I really have to try this out some time; I really
want to. So, the dynamics are very weak nowadays.
We control envelopes just as in traditional music.
But there is a gigantic area to be discoveredhow
to come to a completely new musical experience
through pulsating dynamic peaks in a room with
very many sound sourcesthe more, the better.
The second weakness in music is the composition of timbres (Klangfarbenkomposition) itself.
Unfortunately, even today and including myself
we are talking about ring modulationtimbres are
more often composed from the standpoint of the
overall effect they create instead of coming from
a canon from which one could choose. Now, Ive
just mentioned something very specific. Wilhelm
Ostwald compiled as early as 1912 a catalog of colors
with 2,500 different tones and published it as Die
Farbenfibel [The Color Primer] in 1916/1917so
the intensity and the frequencies of the colors can be
distinguished. That is something we urgently need
in music, tooa catalog of timbresso that for example if I want to use a wooden sort of timbre I have
150 variations to choose from . . . and the same for
metal, drum-like sounds, vowel-like vocal sounds,
and so on. We need an advanced composition with
scales of timbres, categories and families of timbres.
At the moment, most of it is done empirically
on a rather superficial level. So, composition with
timbres is still at its very beginning.
And the third weakness is spatial composition.
I have used spatial composition since 1956, since
the first quadraphonic composition ever in music
history, and developed it further up to octophonic
music of the last few years, in which the sounds
are projected in a square of speakers above the
listeners and one at the ear level of the audience,

14

Computer Music Journal

Brummer:
Would that be an aspect that you devel
oped earlier onmicro-time and macro-timethat
the composition with the help of the ring modulator
is engaging in micro-time?
Stockhausen: Absolutely. A lot is going on that cannot necessarily be perceived consciously, not even
by a trained listenerfor example, the mirrorings of
intervals between the basset horn and the flute or
the tenor and the trumpet. What is important is that
in the micro-sound world, as we may call it, similar
laws apply as in the macro-sound world.
Often I have used that fact in life, knowing,
too, that only those few who perceive it make
themselves aware of it, who read scores and study
them and then suddenly hear what they have been
studying. And this is a very special relationship
with music. This is an immersion into the timbres
themselves, into the inside of the sounds. And other
people perceive this on a more superficial level.
Brummer:
I also have a general question about your

point of view on electronics. As we here at the ZKM

produce a lot of electronic music, we are obviously
interested in your opinion of what part electronics
might play in the future, or in fact for you for
future projects. Id like to refer to the Strahlen
project, which you have already devised but not yet
implemented and where one can see that incredible
combinations of different electronic aspects can
create an unbelievably rich musical language.

which makes it possible to use diagonal movements

of the sounds with different velocities and spiral
movementseven on the walls. And these spirally
moving sounds can then jump onto another wall,
or different forms can be projected simultaneously
onto two, three, or four walls.
I composed such a work in which up to four different forms of movements in space are simultaneous,
and I find this simultaneous listening to different
velocities and spatial directions and spatial surfaces
to be very important. A lot has to be developed in
this field.
Brummer:
Already in the WDR Studio, you worked

with 24 rotations per second.

Stockhausen: Yes, that was the highest speed, but
it was extremely dangerous, too. We had to use a
separate room and to close its safety-plated door.
In it there was a rotating speaker that I had had
built after my very own design. It was installed on
a particularly sturdy footing, and the whole thing
weighed about a ton. On a round table, a speaker
was installed that could be moved toward the rim.
Around the table, eight microphones were placed,
and I could remotely control the rotation of the
speaker from the other room watching it through a
window, starting with zero rotationsa standstill
up to 24 rotations per second clockwise or counterclockwise. So you have to multiply this by eight, as
there were eight microphones, and this was recorded
onto eight-channel tape and later diffused by eight
speakers standing in a circle. This resulted in sounds
that partly were so low they seemed to arise from
the listeners stomach until the speed was so fastat
first 16 rotations per second and then naturally even
fasterthat finally many low sounds entered the
body from below. So, one didnt hear the speakers as
such anymore but instead felt within the sound. So,
when moving ones head, its nothing but a spectral
analysis. Moving closer to half of the speakers in
one direction, one suddenly hears everything in
octaves. And by moving my upper body slowly in a
circle I can hear all the harmonics that are included
in the static sound because my head movements
slightly change the distance to the speakers and
thus the spectrum is altered. That is a completely
new development in spatial music, one of many,

that would make it possible to move around in

space and thus alter the sound by ones own
movements.
Brummer:
You have worked a lot with machines

and I say this in this provocative manner on

purpose, because instruments and instrumentalists
really are machines, toothat put your concept,
your notation, into action. Do you think that at
some point in the future this work could be done
not by people but that there might be computer
programs that will be able to interpret?
Stockhausen: Yes. In 1967I had become Director
of the Studio for Electronic Music at WDR in 1963
I announced at a meeting for sound engineers that
in the future, performers might have a control board
in front of them to check their own volume so they
would know how to react if a sound projectionist
in the hall would correct them and ask for more or
less volume . . . so that they could memorize the
positions of the lights on the display and, therefore,
a much more accurate control of dynamics could
be achieved by the interpreter. And I also said that
musicians who play an instrument or sing must
move through a Theremin-like room and control
with their own movements the movement of their
own sounds in space. They would need to learn
by practicingdepending on how they moveto
suddenly jettison a sound somewhere in space
and bring it back again. It is very important to
achieve this possibility to control movement in
space by providing an electromagnetic field around
interpreters.
Brummer:
But still, the humanthe interpreter

who translates, who acts as a translator between the

instrument or the acoustic result and the scoreis
irreplaceable.
Stockhausen: Yes, but there are composers who
are the interpreters of their own works, which
makes it one and the same person. You know, I
imagine anyway that in the future, composers will
be responsible for the sound results of what they are
composing. So they will not only imagine but also
write and realize it, and then pass their knowledge
on to their students. It must be possible that those
who have a conception of spatial music, of timbres

Brummer

15

or dynamics, can demonstrate this themselves.

That will be a new breed of composers who are no
longer separate from the interpreter, but who are
interpreters themselves and can pass this on.
Brummer:
And would the score as a structural type,

as the beginning of a description of a structure,

still be necessary if composers no longer pass on
information because they implement the work
themselves?
Stockhausen: Well, you can of course envision the
future and that there might be humans who can keep
as much information in their memories as there is in
a score. The score is the resulttaking for example
my last pieceof a few months of concentrated
work. A score is condensed time. Up until now,
I have not met a person who can memorize the
contents of a score as differentiated, as polyphonic,
and as detailed as the score itself. That would be
a super-human. If such people did existwhy
not?let us see what they would do. But that would
require an incredible accumulation of faculty and
imagination and conceptions.
Jacob LorberI dont know if youve ever heard
of himwrote this big book called Die geistige
Sonne (The Spiritual Sun). And in this, he describes
that the people living on the sunhe doesnt say if
this is our sunare so intelligent that everything
they can clearly imaginelets say for example an
architectonic structurethat if they can clearly
imagine it and their will says, So be it, it comes
into existence and cannot necessarily be removed
anymore, but it exists . . . in stone and crystal. I really
thought that was great, that it is not unthinkable
that spirits evolve thus and that imagination, if
sharp and clear enough, turns thought into matter.
Formed matter is nothing but spirit that has taken
shape. And we must become higher spirits. To aim

16

for that as humans is maybe a bit early. I cant do it

yet, but I do hope to learn it some day.
Brummer:
That could be a really good ending.

However, I have one more question in which I am

personally very much interested. When writing a
piece, there is an imagination of timbre, tone, phase.
Of what existence is the material with which one
begins? Is it a concept of pitch or a row?
Stockhausen: Well, for me, it is most of the time
like hearing something as if in a dream, and very
often I dont know immediately how to realize it.
That is the best way. And to begin as Stravinsky
said at some point, The ideas come as you are
workingthat is another matter completely. That
is more like the technical aspect of homework, as
I know it and everybody else does, too. One is an
engineer and has learned a craft and can start with
a few intervals, a few notes, and then something is
created if one simply wants something to be created.
It is the search for form. But the best moments are
the ones in which one has heard something inside
and then converts that into musical matterI mean
either self-made sounds or sounds that others are
supposed to createto write it down and to try to
come close to that idea.
This almost never works because the imagination
is much better. Well, maybe not better, but richer.
Its of another nature as our mental composing. But
thats the best way: to dream of something.
Brummer:
So the vision of a piece is the beginning?

Stockhausen: Yesnot of the whole piece necessarily, but of singular moments. Yes, these must come;
one has to wait for them. In these moments I often
lay down on my bed and waited and waited and
waited until I thought, Ah, maybe I could do it this
way. But how? And then one finds a way.

Computer Music Journal