You are on page 1of 8


North Yorkshire County Council

Police and Crime Panel
Minutes of the meeting held on Thursday 12 January 2017, commencing at 11.30 am at County
Hall, Northallerton.
Present:Councillors: Carl Les (North Yorkshire County Council) in the Chair, Michael Chambers MBE
(Harrogate Borough Council), Peter Dew (City of York Council), Helen Grant (Richmondshire
District Council), Mel Hobson (Selby District Council), Ashley Mason (City of York Council), Peter
Wilkinson (Hambleton District Council).
Community Co-opted Member: Santokh Singh Sidhu.
Co-opted Elected member: Councillor Steve Shaw-Wright (North Yorkshire County Council)
Julia Mulligan (Police and Crime Commissioner)
Officers from the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner: Fraser Sampson (Interim Chief
Executive Officer), Michael Porter (Chief Financial Officer), Thomas Thorp (Acting Chief of Staff).
Officers from NYCC: Howard Emmett (Head of Financial Planning, Corporate Services) Diane
Parsons (Panel Secretariat).
Councillors: Tanya Graham (Craven District Council), Sandra Turner (Scarborough Borough
Council), Eric Hope (Ryedale District Council).
Community Co-opted member: Paula Stott.

Copies of all documents considered are in the Minute Book


The Commissioner requested a correction to the draft minutes towards the bottom of page
10 of the meeting papers. The requested change was intended to clarify that the post of
Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner is a politically-restricted post and not a political
post, as written. It was agreed by the Panel that the minutes should therefore read she
[the Commissioner] also felt that the fact that it is not a politically-restricted post could be a
useful advantage in certain fora.
That the Minutes of the meeting held on 6 October 2016, having been printed and
circulated, be agreed, confirmed and signed by the Chairman as a correct record, subject
to the above amendment.


Progress on Issues Raised by the Panel

Considered NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/1

The report of the Panel Secretariat advising on the progress on issues which the Panel
raised at previous meetings and other matters that have arisen since the last meeting and
which relate to the work of the Panel.
The Panel considered those items on the report which were highlighted as outstanding or
ongoing, as outlined below.
Item 1 - 101 service review
The Commissioner was asked if any remedial actions could be taken in the near term to
improve the service for customers, rather than waiting for major changes to be put in place.
Ms Mulligan explained that the key remedial task underway is bringing new (additional)
staff into the control room. This will take some time to implement fully due to training these
staff in taking both 101 and 999 calls. North Yorkshire Police are evaluating the actions
taken and improvements being made. The Commissioner agreed to report back fully to the
Panel once the evaluation had been done.
Item 2 Staffing review of the OPCC
The Commissioner updated that she is currently looking at the impact of new legislation on
the workings of her office and what will be needed to ensure proper support. The
Commissioners office is currently very understaffed. It was agreed that an update will be
brought back to the Panel in April 2017.
Item 3 Personal Development Plan of the Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner
Fraser Sampson highlighted that a work plan has been developed for the Deputy Police
and Crime Commissioner (DPCC) role and areas where additional guidance and mentoring
may be needed as identified by the Panel - will be taken into account. The
Commissioner felt that it would not be appropriate to provide the Panel with the DPCCs
own Personal Development Plan but is happy for Mr Naylor to discuss what hes working
on and it was agreed that he will return to the Panel six months into post to provide an
update. It was agreed that Mr Naylors work plan/objectives will be shared and that he will
return to the Panel to update on progress.
Item 7 Northallerton custody suite trial
This trial has another three months to run so the Commissioner advised that it would not be
appropriate at this stage to update on developments, but would look at when a full report
could be brought to Panel.
Resolved -



That the report be updated for the 6th February 2017 meeting to reflect the position
on the above items;


That the Panel Forward Plan is updated to reflect the substantive items as agreed.

Public Questions or Statements

Mr Peter Richardson asked the following question of the Panel, having submitted a request
in advance of the meeting:
Does the Panel only pay lip service to the Police and Crime Commissioner and Chief
NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/2

Mr Richardson expanded that it was his contention that the precept had increased by 4%,
not 2%, following the receipt of information he had requested from North Yorkshire Police.
He advised that he understood the surplus had been used to reduce the council tax base
and the final precept base but that North Yorkshire Police cannot do both. He further
believed it to be the case that over a period of three years, the freeze grant has been
included in precept calculations, when it should not have been.
Michael Porter subsequently clarified that precept numbers will indeed go up as a result of
a tax base increase and income itself may have gone up by 4%. However, it was indicated
that the paperwork provided to the Panel meeting explained clearly that a rise to 2% or
more of the Police precept would have automatically resulted in a referendum. This is not
something that the Commissioner has any power or remit to prevent in such circumstances
and the prohibitive costs involved with a referendum do not render this a preferred option;
either for 2017/18 or over the course of the last few years.

Members Questions
Santokh Singh Sidhu asked the Commissioner if there were any update with regard to her
(substantive) Chief Executive Officer. Mr Sampson advised that an appropriate process is
being followed in this regard but emphasised that Ms Carter remains the substantive
Cllr Mason asked why a Decision Notice for the appointment of Deputy Police and Crime
Commissioner had not been clearly published alongside all other Decision Notices
available to view on the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner (OPCC) website. Ms
Mulligan clarified that the Notice is available on a separate areas of the OPCC website.
The OPCC website is under development and it was acknowledged that the improvements
should make it easier to navigate and find documentation.
Cllr Mason asked a supplementary question regarding the arrangements for internal and
external audit of the OPCC. Mr Porter explained that external auditors are appointed for
the OPCC and used for both OPCC and North Yorkshire Police. External audit was
previously undertaken by the Audit Commissioner but the appointment is now dealt with via
Public Sector Audit Appointments (PSSA). In terms of internal audit, the OPCC went out
recently to contract someone to work across the OPCC and North Yorkshire Police. An
annual audit report is produced which goes to the Commissioner. All annual reports go to
Audit Committee and are available via the OPCC website. Mr Sampson added that the
recently-published HMIC report into the efficiency of North Yorkshire Police (page 43 in the
Panel meeting papers/Item 8(a)) noted the efficacy of the audit arrangements in place.


Service Priorities and Setting the Precept

Considered The report of the Police and Crime Commissioner setting out a draft proposal for and
context to - the Police precept for 2017/18.
The changes to the national funding formula presents some challenges for police forces
and the Commissioner opened this item by advising the Panel that she has been working
to try to influence key ministers involved in setting the formula at a national level.
Michael Porter set out the context to the draft proposal for 2017/18 and draft funding
projections. The presentation given highlighted the following key points:
a) the proposal is for a 1.99% increase in 2017/18. This would equate to an extra 8p
per week for a Band D property;
b) this would increase the funding available by just under 1.3m per annum;
NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/3

c) if the precept were to be increased by more than 1.99%, this would result in a
referendum on the proposals which would incur prohibitive costs for the OPCC
and as such is not a preferred option;
d) a public consultation has been underway and closed on 11th January 2017. Not
all of the responses have been counted (some are postal) but early figures
suggest around 65% of respondents would prefer an increase of 1.99%; 30%
voted to freeze the precept; 5% would opt for an increase of greater than 1.99%;
e) in terms of spend over the next year, it is intended that this is focussed on the
delivery of projects and initiatives that need to be embedded, such as street triage
and mental health services. This also includes raising the number of PCSOs to
f) there will be a continued focus on delivery of ICT projects as part of the broader
modernisation programme around ways of working;
g) Information from central government about the funding position is not absolutely
final at this stage but it is hoped that the position will be clearer for the next Panel
meeting in February.
The Commissioner also highlighted that the Policing and Crime Bill, once passed through
parliament, will have some planning and funding implications. A key area within this is the
changes to handling of Police complaints, which will require a large number to be dealt with
through the OPCC. This will involve the Commissioner setting up a new department within
her office to deal with this significant additional area of work. This isnt currently reflected
in the budgets put forward and would involve looking at the current level of Police resource
for complaints handling and whether theres also the potential for collaboration with
Clevelands OPCC.
The Panel asked questions in relation to the presentation and material provided. Further to
a concern raised about the low level of general reserves and attendant resilience of the
Force, Mr Porter advised that a detailed risk analysis is undertaken to assess what would
be a suitable level of reserves. It was also clarified that if a major incident were to occur
which meant spending more than 1% of the budget then it is possible to seek more funding
from the Home Office.
The Commissioner was also asked about the investments made in street triage and
whether it was yet known what this service may have saved in operational time and when
an evaluation could be shared. The University of York is undertaking an evaluation of
some aspects of the mental health triage initiative and the responses from service users
have been positive. The three-year programme is about half-way through and the
Commissioner offered to speak to Panel in more detail about services for victims in due
Some concerns were raised by Members regarding the increase in fee income of 3m from
the speeding camera vans. It was queried whether the wider message to the public about
controlling speed was not sufficiently getting across and whether the focus should be to
reduce this income over time rather than it being a potential area to generate revenue. The
Commissioner advised that the vans are deployed to help reduce casualties on the road.
Newcastle University are undertaking a formal evaluation of the speed camera van
programme; North Yorkshire is seeing reductions in speed and in KSE figures but a precise
report is needed.
Santokh Singh Sidhu asked the Commissioner whether she would consider deploying
breathalysers on the mobile vans. Ms Mulligan advised this wouldnt be possible currently
as the vans are manned by North Yorkshire Police staff, not officers, and while they can
use the roadside testing kits, a more detailed check would need to be done at a local police
station. It was agreed that the Commissioner would check on this point and feed back to

NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/4

Resolved That the Panel:


note the report; and

receive clarification from the Commissioner regarding the use of breathalysers on
speed camera vans.

Emergency Services Collaboration

Considered The verbal report of the Police and Crime Commissioner on progress regarding the
development of a business case on collaboration and governance options in relation to the
emergency services.
The Commissioner advised that an external partner has been appointed to help develop
the business case for North Yorkshire. This will focus on potential opportunities around
collaboration and the best mechanisms in both financial and governance terms. There will
then be a period of formal consultation and the business case will be formally submitted to
the Minister. If the Fire and Rescue Authority (FRA) does not agree to the case put
forward then the Minister has a dispute resolution process; an independent assessment
and decision on the case would ultimately be made by the Minister. There are three key
stakeholder groups involved:
The Strategic Stakeholders Reference Group: this includes the Leaders of NYCC
and City of York Council plus their Chief Executive Officers (CEO), the Chair of the
FRA, the CEO of the Fire and Rescue Service, the Commissioner, the Chief
Constable, the Commissioners CEO and also Financial Officer. This group will
look at the business case as it develops;
The Business Case Delivery Group: working with the external partner to write the
business case;
A Check and Challenge Panel: each key stakeholder nominates an independent
person to be involved, plus others such as HMIC.
The OPCC is considering whether the implications of the purdah period ahead of the
County Council elections in May will have any impact on the consultation process. It is
intended that the business case will be drafted in the first quarter. It was also highlighted
that if there were to be a transfer of functions from the FRA to the OPCC then the Panel
would also become the Police, Fire and Crime Panel and would need to consider the
implications of this.
Panel members were concerned to establish how the Panel could become involved in the
early stages of the outlined process and at what point the draft plans might be shared.
Fraser Sampson indicated that this is a key issue for the OPCC to address and that the
OPCC would want to be clear on the implications for the Panel well before any submission
is made to the Minister. The Commissioner emphasised that the views of local authorities
will be included but there is no special status for them as such within the process.
Members suggested that a note covering the key points made within the verbal report
would be helpful to have in writing, to which the Commissioner agreed.
It was agreed that future Panel agendas will have as a standing item a progress update on
the emergency services collaboration.

NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/5

Resolved i.

That the Commissioner will provide a note for the Panel updating on the key points
made in the verbal presentation at the Panel meeting; and
That the Panel takes this item of business as a standing item at Panel meetings.

Strategic Policing Requirement focusing particularly on cybercrime and online fraud

Considered The report of the Police and Crime Commissioner updating on progress made to both
tackle and prevent cybercrime within the county.
Councillor Wilkinson welcomed provision of the report and highlighted his concerns
regarding the countys growing older population and vulnerability to this type of crime. He
indicated that education of communities is key.
The Commissioner advised that the Home Affairs Select Committee is to review force
responses to such issues and there is a programme of work underway at a national level.
The report itself provides a snapshot rather than a comprehensive plan. Ms Mulligan
indicated that whilst the provision around tackling cybercrime now means that things are
better than they were a few years ago, they are not where they need to be. The
Commissioner also highlighted that the evidence base is not robust enough to take this
issue into full consideration when developing the funding formula and it was suggested that
the Home Office needs to consider this.
Members agreed to set up a Panel working group on cybercrime to explore the issue in
more detail and report back in due course.
Resolved That the Panel:

note the report; and

form a working group on cybercrime and online fraud to consider in more detail the
issues raised.

195. HMIC PEEL (Police Effectiveness, Efficiency and Legitimacy) Inspection

Reports 2016
Considered (a)

HMIC PEEL: Police Efficiency - North Yorkshire 2016

The recent report of HMIC on the efficiency of North Yorkshire Police;


HMIC PEEL: Police Legitimacy - North Yorkshire 2016

The recent report of HMIC on the legitimacy of North Yorkshire Police.

Members took both papers together for consideration. The Panel expressed concerns
about the disappointing figures for ethnic diversity across both staff and officers of North
Yorkshire Police, as reported within the legitimacy report (page 73 of the papers). For
example, the percentage of BAME in the workforce represented 1.2% of officers, as
against the BAME percentage in the local population (3.4%).
The Commissioner explained that the DPCC will be taking forward a piece of work to look
at this and review which other force areas are doing better than North Yorkshire in this
NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/6

respect. Santokh Singh Sidhu highlighted that he had previously offered his professional
expertise on this issue, which the Commissioner welcomed and also advised the Panel that
scrutiny on these issues would support her in the work to be undertaken around ethnic
Similarly, Councillor Wilkinson highlighted the relatively low number of females working as
officers (30%) and asked the Commissioner whether there is a strategy for trying to
increase these levels. Ms Mulligan responded that she has asked North Yorkshire Police
to look again at becoming part of the Police Now graduate recruitment scheme, which
would assist in terms of strategy.
Members also raised the point that the figures provided for grievances made (and finalised)
against officers (5.2 per 1,000 workforce) seemed somewhat higher than the force average
for England and Wales (4.8 per 1,000). The Commissioner did not feel that this difference
was statistically significant and indeed expressed caution around seeking a lower
benchmark as there should be a culture within the force whereby staff feel able to come
forward and report issues. The Commissioner also explained that she and the Chief
Constable get regular reports from the Polices Professional Standards Department about
complaints made, to help identify trends. The planned changes to the handling of police
complaints will also make it easier for the Commissioner to pick up any trends in issues.
Resolved That the inspection reports be noted.

Performance and Outcomes Overview Report (Dashboard Report)

Considered The report of the Corporate Performance, Delivery and Scrutiny Board at North Yorkshire
Police updating on performance for the period April to November 2016.
Members discussed call handling and the 101 service in relation to calls being abandoned
by members of the public. Fraser Sampson updated the Panel on improvements to the
ICT infrastructure which will assist with handling call queues.
Resolved That the report and current position be noted.


Finance Work Group Update

Considered The verbal update by the Panel Secretariat on the formation of the Panels Finance
Working Group.
It was agreed at the previous Panel meeting that a Finance Working Group would be
formed to help Panel members to better understand the financial context to the
Commissioners key decision-making across the year. Following the meeting, Councillors
Les, Wilkinson and Shaw-Wright arranged to meet with Fraser Sampson and Michael
Porter, along with colleagues supporting from NYCC Finance, to consider the remit of the
group and to review the pre-precept documentation for the Panel meeting. It was felt to
have been a useful meeting but arrangements would not be made for another meeting until
the May 2017 County Council elections.

NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/7

Resolved That the report be noted.


Work Programme
Considered The report of Secretarial Support asking the Panel to consider the Work Programme.
Diane Parsons asked members to note the regular change in start times to the Panel
meetings (11:30am) and it was agreed that some time would be taken to look in more
detail at forward work planning; probably after the February 2017 Panel. It was also noted
that the forward plan would be updated following the agreement at the meeting that the
emergency services collaboration would become a standing item.
Resolved That the Work Programme be noted.

The meeting concluded at 2:00pm.


NYCC Police and Crime Panel Minutes of 12 January 2017/8