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Presiding Judge Mark V.

Holmes

***MISSED FIRST 30 MINUTES IF TESTIMONY****


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Jacksons estate is represented by Avram Salkin, Charles Paul Rettig, Steven Richard Toscher, R
obert S. Horwitz, Edward M. Robbins Jr., Sharyn M. Fisk and Lacey E. Strachan of Hochman Sa
lkin Rettig Toscher & Perez PC, Paul Gordon Hoffman, Jeryll S. Cohen and Loretta Siciliano of
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Hoffman Sabban & Watenmaker and Howard L. Weitzman of Kinsella Weitzman Iser Kump &
Aldisert LLP. The

IRS is represented by its attorneys Donna F. Herbert, Malone Camp, Sebastian Voth, Jordan Mus
en and Laura Mullin.
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Voth is lawyer directing questions to Tohme Tohme. For IRS
Howard. Weitzman for John Branc.
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TT: ... Los Angeles... In five days I will see him ...
And I was seeing him almost on a daily basis but at least once a week..
After .??????.after we had meeting to Help Michael
Mr Voth ..??????????
TT. According to Tom Barrack...
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Steve Motze from Haifa who was taking care of Michaels affairs at that time in ......and we had
a meeting with regard to that issue how we can help Michael move out of his debts

HW: Your honor if I might inquire through the court we have a time and date ... Idea ,,, you
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Mr Voth Sure. Great suggestion

HW: Thank you


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Mr Voth: You are welcome

Mr.Voth: What do you recall? What year did this meeting take place that you started having sub
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sequent meetings with Michel Jackson to try to help him?

TT: 2008
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Voth: And approximately what month?

TT: I dont ... I cant really recall the exact date, day. April or May,... I cant recall...

Voth: So April or May of 2008?


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TT: 2008. Yes. I think. I am not sure


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Mr.Voth: OK. So you are describing these meetings regarding figuring out how to help Michael
Jackson out with his bills. What happened next? Did you eventually?
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TT Oh, after that we decided to have a ... to have a meeting ... very rough meeting that took plac
e also in Las Vegas with Tom Barrack and three four guys from Colony. We met at the Topeka B
rothers? office in North Las Vegas or somewhere else. And Michael was there. I was there. Tom
Barrack and a few other people, We were trying to see... we were trying to see how we can enga
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ge Michael in some performance or something to generate money for him.

Voth: Did you become... were you his manager at this time?

TT: At that time.... it was a... he asked me ... But there was nothing in writing at that time.
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Voth: OK. Who proposed that you should be his manager?

TT: Michael himself.


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Voth: One word your honor. Your honor may I approach the court to have a ...

JDG: You may


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IRS: Exhibit 672R ... Occupation

Mr.Voth: May I ask the court to provide to ... witness duplicates ... to hand over.. Just please tak
e a moment to review this document marked Exhibit 672 R. Please. Just briefly take a look and le
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t me know when you are done.

HW: I need marked as one of three separate documents? Mark them as one of the three
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Voth: So we have three related agreements that are being marked as one Exhibit.

HW: Yeah. But they are not...


so

Mr.Voth: So we have three agreements....to Tohme ... May I answer Mr.Weitzmans question y
our honor?

JDG: Sure.
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HW: Point of order... Because they are part of litigation that the estate has with Mr. Tohme. They
are three separate documents from three separate purposes. And ...

Voth: It is only for convenience your honor


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JDG: OK
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Voth: ... and also these documents are also part of are pages currently of Exhibit 294J
Judge: you get to call whoever.
Voth: Yes
HW. So it comes in as unrelated subject your honor
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**Estate female attorney laughs out loud***
JDG: Go ahead Mr.Voth ...

Mr.Voth: Alright. So lets take a look at the first document that dates May 2nd, 2008.
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TT.Yes

Voth:And its about 5 pages, including schedule A and schedule B. Do you recognize this docum
ent?
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TT: Yes.

Voth: What is it?


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TT: Its the management agreement, and service agreement, and indemnity agreement.

Mr.Voth: So I am only asking you about the first one , the first 5 pages, relating to the agreemen
t date of My 2, 2008.
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TT: OK

HW: I am sorry the first 5 pages relates to May 2nd and to July 2nd documents. I just want the re
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cord clear ...because you are referring to the first 5 pages.

Voth: Actually... You are right ... so lets refer to the first two pages
Jdg: Thank you Mr Voth
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Voth: so for verification we are referring to first few pages

TT; Yes
so

Mr.Voth: OK. Do you recognize the first few pages of this document marked with a date 6th Jul
y?

TT: Yes.
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HW: And then your honor for the record there is a redaction on the bottom ... Ive not seen this d
ocument before ...so I was going to ask the court to ask you

JDG: Plaintiff..
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Mr.Voth: ... Responding to this redaction this is a document that been marked already as Exhibi
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t 294J and has pages of 29 to 37. So just to avoid any confusion respondent just redacted out thos
e page numbers
JDG: ... Perfectly reasonable Mr Voth. Go ahead.
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Voth: Alright lets go to page 2 of Exhibit of May 2nd , 2008 agreement. Is that your signature on
page 2?

TT: Yes.
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Voth: Alright. Lets move on to the Services Agreement. Do you recognize the document titled S
ervice Agreement?

TT: Yes.
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Voth: What is it?

TT: Its and agreement between me and Michael Jackson and ....Masood??...
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Voth: And if we go to page 3 of the Services Agreement, is that your signature on page 3 of Serv
ices Agreement?

TT: Yes.
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Voth: Now if you look at the Services Agreement and please go to Article 2-
2.1, it mentions a 50% commission there. You see that? We are at first page Services Agreement
Article 2.1.
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TT: Yes.

Voth: Did you come up with this 50% commission?


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TT: No. Peter :Lopez came up with that because Michael at that time he offered 50% and I refus
ed. And then I said Mr. Jackson. No. I cannot do that. And then I checked with Peter. I told Pet
er. And Peter said 50% is common.
so

Voth: OK. So lets move on to the last document of Exhibit 672R marked for notation and titled
Indemnity Agreement. Do you recognize this document?
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TT: Yes.

Voth: What is it?

TT: Its and Indemnity Agreement.


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Voth: You are familiar?


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TT: Yes.
Voth: Is that your signature on the last page of the Indemnity Agreement?
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TT: Yes.

Voth: So weve been talking about these 3 different agreements, Did you draft these 3 agreement
s?
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TT: No. The attorneys did.

Voth: And by the attorneys did what are you referring to?
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TT: Dennis Hawk, Peter Lopez and Tom McClain.

Voth. Now respondent moves to enter document marked with notation 672R into evidence...
Judge. Submitted
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HW. We like to add we have no objection
Voth.Alright. So weve talked ... we have to talk about how you became Michael Jacksons mana
ger. Did you have any prior experience representing artists?
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TT: No.

Voth: Aright. Now youve formally started representing Michael Jackson. You.. we have here in
Exhibit 672R in May of 2008. Can you walk us through as to what happened next? Your relati
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onship with Michael Jackson.

HW/ Estate: Your honor I object... vague... I am just looking for the time
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JDG: ...time ...please do it...

Voth: Sure. So we are in May of 2008. Do you recall what happened next with respect to your re
presentation of Michael Jackson?
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TT: Well. I cant remember exactly what took place then. Its been almost 10 years. But what ha
ppened is we realized that he needs to clean house ...
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Voth: Stop right there. What do you mean by clean house?

TT: Well he was ... His life was in disarray, as far as I am concerned. And he was around, you k
now, people that he shouldnt be around. And he was acting like he was ... with the wheel chair
and mask ... with all these things . And I told him that this is not the way to keep living. And I tol
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d him that there is a lot of rumors that he is dying and he had some kind of disease. And all this I
said ... Its not a place for him to... Maybe I am jumping ahead. But I told him its not a place for
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him to live in Las Vegas and he should move back to Los Angeles and... because this is where al
l the action is... I think so ...
Voth: Ok. So you mentioned that there were certain people, if I understood you correctly, that sh
ouldnt be around him. Explain that further.
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TT: Well, I think , you know, there was some... a lot of people from the Nation of Islam at that ti
me with him. And all this security and everything. That I felt like he was kind of controlled or so
mething. And thats why I told him that he should move on and change the way he is living.
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Voth: And you mentioned a wheel chair and a mask. Can you further explain that part?

TT: Well, when I first met him I saw that he has a bandage around his ankle. And he said hes h
urt his leg or something. And maybe he was using it as an excuse to be in a wheel chair. I dont k
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now what was it. Maybe he want ... You know... Michael was wounded from the ... what happen
ed to him in Santa Barbara with regard to the child molestation. Maybe he wants people to feel s
orry for him or something. I really dont know. But I told him this is not done... and everyone kn
ows from the media that he is wearing a mask. And this and that. So I worked hard on him. And I
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convinced him to change his habits.

Voth: What do you mean by to change his habits?

TT: Abandon the wheel chair, remove the mask, get back to living a normal life. And move out o
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f Las Vegas. And try to get back to work.

Voth: Alright. Lets go back briefly to 2008. Was Michael Jackson working with any other attorn
eys or advisers?
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TT: At that time the only other person I know that he was involved with is Peter Lopez. And they
came to me at that time ... David Klaus ... David Dunn and McMillan. I forgot his first name.
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Voth: Ok.

HW: Londell.
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TT: Londell McMillan

Voth: Who was Peter Lopez?


n.c

TT: Peter Lopez he was an entertainment attorney. He worked with Michael as far as I know for
two years. And he was still hanging around Michael when I walked in and in the picture. And he
wasnt getting paid at that time.

Voth: And is he still with us?


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TT: No. He passed away.


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Voth: And you mentioned David Dunn. Can you elaborate who the person was?
TT: Well, David Dunn he was a ... I think he was a ... That guy also he is an attorney. And he wa
s working with Michael Jackson and David Klaus. And Michael wasnt real involved in day to d
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ay ??? At the advice of Michael we asked him to audit Sony.

Voth: Why was that?


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TT: Because Michael felt that Sony was cheating him. And they are not paying him.

Voth: And what is your understanding as to the basis of that allegation?

TT: I have no idea really. I didnt know and he didnt tell me. But he said to me where is my mo
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ney? They stole my money. They are taking my money. I want my money. And I want to audit S
ony.

Voth: And did you take any steps to audit Sony?


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TT: Well. I told David Dunn. And I told him that Michael wants to audit Sony. And he started, I
think, by approaching Sony and talking to Martin Bandier at that time. And immediately a lot of
things came up. And the ...Bandier called it a witch hunt. And everybody started attacking me th
en. Because they thought its my idea. It wasnt my idea. It was Michael Jackson.
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Voth: And who is Martin Bandier?

TT: Martin Bandier is the head of Sony/ ATV. He is in charge of the catalog.
lJa

Voth: We are still in 2008 / 2009 did Michael Jackson have any plans to buy a house in Las
Vegas?
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TT: Yes.

Voth: Can you describe?


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TT: Well there was a house that was built by Prince Jefri Bolkiah, who is brother of the Sultan of
Brunei. And he built a very huge, expensive house in Las Vegas on Spanish trail. And Michael h
appened to know about the house and he looked at the house. And it was his dream to buy the ho
use and turn it into like a museum for ... Like a Graceland. And so ...we tried to ... to buy the hou
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se for him.

Voth: You mentioned someone from Brunei?

TT: Brunei.
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Voth: Are you familiar with anybody that would be Sultan of Brunei?
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TT: Yes, I am.


Voth: How are you familiar?
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TT: Because I used to work with Brunei about 25 years ago. And I was a consultant through his
His Excellency, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Education. And I used to go there almost
every two months.
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Voth: Lets talk briefly about the Two Seas Records litigation. Can you tell us about the lawsui
t that took place with Two Seas?

TT: What happened, as you know, after the ...the situation in that Santa Barbara ... the trial was
over and he was acquitted, he decided to leave the United States. So through... He went and mov
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ed to Bahrain with the help of Jermaine. And he decided on Bahrain. And he was ... agreed... he
had some agreement and contract with the son of the King ... to do a studio, to produce the music
, to do all kind of entertainment venue and ...with Sheikh Abdullah . And at that time he decided
that for sometimes ... and thing went sour with him and Sheikh Abdullah. And then he left and h
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e went to Ireland, before he came back to the United States. And when Sheikh Abdullah found o
ut that he left he went crazy. Because when he left Bahrain Sheikh Abdullah wasnt there. And t
hen he demanded that he wants all the money he spent. He claimed he paid a lot of money for hi
m, for the trial, for attorneys, and this and that. So we tried to speak to Sheikh Abdullah - me and
Michael before he filed a lawsuit in London. But he would not take the call. So then he filed a la
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wsuit in the court in London. And ... then we solved out of court and cost about $5 Million dolla
rs.

Voth: Again when you say we solved it who are you referring to?
lJa

TT: I am referring to... I spoke to his brother and I spoke to others that have influence with Shei
kh Abdullah. And then his brother called to Bahrain and told him to drop the lawsuit. We dont
want to do it. And this is what happened. And the father was very upset about it. The King.
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Voth: And what were they alleging in the lawsuit?

TT: He is alleging that he spent a lot of money. And he promised him... And in the contract I me
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an he was... he really ... Michael could not do anything ...without ...I mean everything ... set up a
n office ... all or half in regard to performance ... in regard to book ... in regard to anything. He re
ally tied him up really, really badly. So he could not do anything, without settling the lawsuit wit
h Sheikh Abdullah.
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Voth: And what was the amount that the case was settled for?

TT: $5 Million Dollars.


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Voth: And where did those funds come from?


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TT: The first payment came from AEG. And they passed the money for Michael. And the secon
d payment came ... I paid it on behalf of Michael from this fund that came from Sony.
Voth: So we are still in ... Youll have to help me here ... 2008 or 2009...?
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TT: 2008
Voth: Ok. Id like to move on to the issues that took place with Juliens Auctions. Do you remem
ber when that took place?
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TT: What happened is when Colony Capitol bought the note, from Fortress, in the note it state th
at everything in the Neverland belonged to the holder of the note. And Michael can only take his
laptop and thats it. He cant touch anything. And there is a document like that? So I had a big pr
oblem with Colony in regard to this because they want to keep everything. So I went and I spoke
to Tom Barrak. I told him this is not the way to do it. I came to you to help him. Not to hurt him l
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ike this. So then I spoke to Paul Fuhrman ? , the attorney who was handling the transaction for C
olony and Michael. And I told him: This is not acceptable. So he wrote me back, sent me an e
mail, and he explained under the terms that are. In any case, at the end, we decided that Colony
will not touch any of his stuff. And we were forced to remove all this stuff from Neverland.
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Voth: Was there a planned auction?

TT: Yes. After the fact. So I went back to Michael and said: Why dont we do an auction for th
e stuff that I dont want? So I called... I forgot who I called for moving,,, I dont know how Juli
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en came in ... in the picture... But somebody gave me his number. And I called him. And I said:
You know Michael Jackson wants to do some auction for some items from Neverland. So we l
eft and we went to Neverland together and we had to move all the rides ... We had to move ... Th
ere is a lot of stuff there that wasnt working and its old. It was a mess. It wasnt kept up, you kn
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ow... And a lot of stuff werent working. So at that time we decided he wants to pursue it ... the a
uction. Michael with Julien. And after that some elements that didnt like me there, they started p
osting his stuff on the internet. And telling me go get all the stuff on the internet.. And this and th
at. So he did not care at time. But then he decided, he said because it wasnt an auction
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Voth: Stop right there. By he you are referring to Michael Jackson?

TT: Michael Jackson. He didnt wan any of his personal items to be auctioned. He just wanted s
so

ome of the rides and some of the stuff that he does not need over there. And when we went to Ne
verland I told the security and I told the guy that was in charge, only these certain items that the
man can take. But I was traveling and I came back everything was gone. And it was in the posse
ssion of Juliens Auctions. And so he posted pictures of his personal items, and this and that, wh
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ich created a lot of pain for Michael. So then he asked me to cancel the auction. And we canceled
the auction. And we got his stuff back.

Voth: Did this cause any problems between you and Michael Jackson?
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TT: Not really. It didnt cause any problem between with me and Michael Jackson. The only pro
blem that arise with me and Michael Jackson is because there was a guy that someone brought to
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him from London. He is a guy. His name is Alfad ... Hussein. He told me himself His Royal Hi
ghness, HRH. And at that time everyone I was hiring Id check them out. So I told... I have a frie
nd of mine in the Secret Service ... Williams. And I told him to check Alfad Hussein. So we got
back from Scotland Yard, he did not me, and I got the report on him. He was a heroin dealer. So
I told Michael. This guy around you. I dont want to see yoy anymore. The only things that happ
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ened I did not get... around...

Voth: Alright now. So lets move on to some of the steps that you tried to take to revitalize Mich
ael Jacksons career. Did you try to help motivate Michael Jackson to start working?
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TT: You see Michael was.... Even though before I came to the picture .... He was in Las Vegas.
He was at the hotel...the... Cant remember the name of the hotel... he was practicing ... you kno
w... keeping himself going ...singing and practicing dancing and everything. And then when we
moved from downtown to Palomino he still was working, he was doing things. And at that time
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when he was on Palomino he also was working inside his music. He wants to make a movie abou
t King Tut. And he wants to play King Tut in the movie. And he had unbelievable stuff he was w
orking on, He had so many things he showed me.
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Voth: Stop right there. What do you mean by unbelievable stuff?

TT: Like presentation. Short videos. Prints about what he has in his mind the way he wants the m
ovie to be done.
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Voth: So tell us about some of the different business projects that you started , if any, that you st
arted working on.

TT: Well, the first project that came in is that after he moved to Los Angeles, Peter Lopez came t
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o me and he said that, you know, we were discussing with Michael at that time that he should go
back to work. And he decided that he will go back to work. And on the condition that the concert
will be... the first performance will be is in England. So Peter Lopez came to me and said, you k
now Live Nation is very interested in having a contact with Michael Jackson for a tour. So I told
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Michael. He said go see what they have to say. So I decided to go. So I went with Peter to Live
Nation. And we had a meeting. And it didnt work out because Michael was demanding some ad
vance cash, demanding he wants a house, he wants this and that. So we did not get the deal ...So
I came back
so

Voth: What was that meeting? Live Nation?

TT: Live Nation. So I went back and I report to Michael. And Michael told me No, I dont want
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to work with them. Then Peter came back again and said: How about AEG? I dont know AE
G. So I said fine. So I told Michael. Michael is very familiar with AEG and Randy Phillips. So h
e said Go and talk to them. At that time Peter came back and told me that Randy Phillips is ou
t of the country. He was in London at that time. That when he comes back he will arrange the me
eting. At that time Michael Jackson was living at the Bel Air Hotel. So when...
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HW: ...your honor, I just want to get a time frame.


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Voth. When was he living at the hotel?


TT: In 2008
Voth.. When in 2008?
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TT: ... the last quarter of 2008... Because he moved out of the Bel Air Hotel because we rented a
house for him. before Christmas .. And rented a house.

Voth: We are talking about different things. Just so that we are on the same page. We are primary
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referring to the years 2008 and 2009

TT: No we are referring at this time to 2008 only. We are still in 2008

Voth: 2008. OK.


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TT: Right. So what happened is Randy Phillips came back from London. And I dont know how
long it was. So he came and we met at the Bel Air Hotel. And I said Ill tell Michael. So I went
where Michael was in the hotel. So I went and I told him I just met with Randy and we are going
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to have another meeting. So at that time Tom Barrack was trying to be involved with Michael an
d see if he can have him perform in Las Vegas because at that time he owned the Las Vegas Hilt
on. And I told Tom he is not going to perform at the Las Vegas Hilton. In any case, what happen
ed is, I received a call from Tom Barrack and he said that: Why dont you have the meeting wit
h Randy Phillips and AEG in the Colony office. I said to him: No problem. So we met ...
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Q; Do you remember when this meeting took place? Approximately or what year?

TT: 2008.
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Voth: 2008.

TT: 2008,
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So I went to Colony office in Century City and we met with Randy, Paul Gongaware was also th
ere from the AEG side. And then we met it was 4,5 guys from Colony President... And we had th
e meeting there and then I told Randy what Michaels wishes are if he wants to sign with them.
He said: Well make it happen. But he said Phil Anschutz doesnt seem eager to do it because
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he heard so many things and read so many things about Michael mental and physical being. So I
said I can arrange for them to meet Michael.

Voth: Who is Phil Anschutz?


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TT: Anschutz is the owner of AEG.

Voth: Please proceed with what happened next.


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TT: So I told Michael that. At that time was still .. went back to Las Vegas. So I went back to La
s Vegas . To the Palomino. So I told Michael that there is a meeting set up with AEG and Phil A
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nschutz So I flew to Las Vegas and we took Michael and we went to the MGM. And Phil Ansch
utz and everyone and Tim Leiweke was there. Paul Gongaware, Mr, Asschutzs wife. And so the
y were very impressed by Michael. And Phil Anschutz said: Absolutely. We move forward
with this.
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Voth: When was this? When exactly was this meeting with Phil Anschutz?

TT: 2008
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Voth: And it was in LasVegas you say?

TT: In Las Vegas. At the MGM Hotel

Voth: And Michael Jackson was present at this meeting


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TT: Yes. Michael came in and he brought with him his son Blanket. And after they want to talk t
o me in detail. So Michael left. Security took him back home. And I stayed until the meeting fini
shed. And then I went back to Michael and told him what took place, And then AEG started to g
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et engaged.

Voth: Ok. Before we move into the This Is It concert series tour I have some more questions for
you. Putting aside the AEG concert series were there any other projects or deals that you were w
orking on?
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TT: Yes there was the Nike Moonwalk shoe

Voth: Alright. Stop right there. Can you elaborate on that?


lJa

TT: Well, Nike contact me and they wanted to do special shoes for Michael. And so that they put
LA and the person from Nike and he met with me and Michael. And then he went back and cam
e back with some drawing of shoes for Michael ... Artwork... Book ...
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And Michael liked it and they were still working on it. But then didnt finalize because he passed
away. And then we were working on a Broadway show with Nederlander
so

Q. Before we move on to that. Was there an agreement signed with Nike?

TT: No. There was no agreement signed with Nike because we did not know the terms and condi
tions of what is going to develop with regard to the shoes. And Michael did not want to make an
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y decision on anything until he sees the final shoes. If he likes to do it or not.

Voth: You mentioned something regarding Broadway. Explain that for us.

TT: Yes,Peter Lopez came to me and told me that Nederlander who wants to do a show. Broad
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way show. So I asked


Michael he said Talk to them. So that gentlman flew in from LA and he met at the Penninsula
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Hotel him and I, I think Nederland, . And they decided to move


forward .... Michael. And after the attorney working on it Michael agreed and he signed the deal
with Nederlander.
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Voth: You recall any other ... Any particular business deals that werent enforced?

TT: There was the dance video


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Voth: What do you mean by dance video

TT: Michael was complaining to me. He said to me. Everywhere I go to with my kids to buy ga
mes every artist not even close to me have a game. And I want Sony to do a game for me. So I co
ntacted Sony and I said: Michael wants a game. You gotta do a game for him.
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Voth: By game are you referring to a video game?

TT: Video game. So they agreed and they sent a team from ... I dont know where they came fr
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om ... New York or somewhere East Coast. And they came and they asked to have a big TV to d
o demonstration for Michael. At that time Michael was living at the Bel Air Hotel. So we arrange
d some place for them there with a TV and everything, And they brought in some small video to
show him how it is. And he loved it. And they decided to move forward on it. And they left and
he died.
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Voth: When did this discussion take place?

TT: 2008.
lJa

Voth. 2008

TT. And there was also ..


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Voth: Wait. Lets stay with this video, Was there an agreement signed.

TT: I cant remember. But they committed on doing it.


so

Voth: Is the name Andy Hayward familiar to you?

TT: Yes. Andy Hayward. He also wanted to do a Thriller show for the TV. Like a TV series.
And John spend a lot of time and money on it. And Michael loved it. And
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a then I think there was ...

Voth: Stay with that one. Did you have discussions with Andy Hayward?

TT: Yes
o

Voth: Did Andy Hayward meet with Michael Jackson?


m

TT: Yes.
Voth: Do you remember how many times?
Te
TT: At least two or three times. We met at the Bel Air Hotel.

Voth: And do you recall what was the purpose of those meetings?
am
TT: well
he showed Michael some of his ideas and some of the figures he wants to do. And he brought s
ome little figures....

Voth: Wait. Stop right there. What do you mean by a little figure?
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TT: Its like a figure. He wants to use. Like a Mickey Mouse ... But it wasnt Mickey Mouse. Fi
gure like a Mickey Mouse. Something that he would use in the series.
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Voth: Do you recall what the figure looked like?

TT: I cant remember. Its like a lot of ghosts. A lot of this. A lot of that. Scary things

Voth: And did Michael Jackson provide any input? And input?
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TT: Michael loved it. And he couldnt wait for it to move on and
evolve ... And Andy Hayward was working on it. But again it did not happen because Michael p
assed away.
lJa

Voth: And was there a signed agreement that took place with this idea?

TT: Well. No. Because we were working on a contract. And I think, as I recall, Joe Katz was wor
ck

king on it at that time and Peter. Joe Katz looked at it also.

Voth: This is the first time I heard the name Joe Katz in your testimony. Who is Joe?
so

TT: Joe Katz is an attorney. He is a entertainment attorney. And he lives in Atlanta. And I hired
him to help us with alternatives. But he did not do anything. He is nice man.

Voth: And did you find any issues with respect to dealing with Michael together with Andy Hay
n.c

ward? Any legal issues?

TT: No we didnt have any legal issue? But I think at time, there was a, I think ?????? ... with r
egard to use of the music or some part that he said he owned or did not own. We tried to solve it t
hat time. I dont know if there was a lawsuit also. I dont know. I cant remember.
o

Voth: Are you familiar with the name Christian Audigier?


m

TT: Yes.
Voth: Can you describe to us?
Te
TT: Yes. Also Peter Lopez he wants have Christian Audigier do a
line for Michael Jackson. He was doing at that time. He does Tee shirts, hats, etc, etc.. And so w
hat happened is ... At that time he was doing some work with Madonna, I think. And Christian he
really liked Michael a lot. And so... he wants to do a line with Michael. So I told Michael. He sai
am
d go look at it. So I went there with Peter Lopez to his warehouse. And I looked at his work and
everything, and I asked him where they are selling it. It was at K-
Mart and I dont know what other place. So I went. I told Michael. And he felt like its below Mi
chael to sell his product in these places. So Michael declined. He said I dont want to do it.
M
Voth: So there was no agreement signed?

TT: No agreement signed. The we had a Louis Vuitton that time wants to make a watch for him a
lso. But again...
ich
Voth: What happened there?

TT: He died
ae
Voth: Was there an agreement signed with Louis Vuitton?

TT: No
lJa

Voth: Can you recall how that came about?

TT: When we were in London a gentleman came in and I think he knew Michael. And he said h
e wants to make a watch. But ...so we told him that submit what you want. Artwork and this and
ck

that. And then we suggest to look at it and well go from there. But it did not come to life becaus
e he passed away..

Voth: And you mentioned ,the gentleman, was he affiliated or employed by Louis Vuitton?
so

TT: He was from Louis Vuitton. I cant remember his name. I thought I had his card. But I didnt
find it.
n.c

Voth: Do you remember anything about Michael Jacksons 50th Birthday and his appearance on
Good Morning America?

TT: Yes.
o

Voth: Can you describe?


m

TT: Well. He didnt appear. He just had a phone call.


Voth: And what was the phone call about?

TT: Sorry. I missed. What were you saying?


Te
Voth: Talking about his 50th birthday and phone call.

TT: Yes. Phone call. I arranged the phone call. They want to talk to Michael.
am
Voth: They ...being the people of Good Morning America?

TT: Good morning America.


M
Voth: OK

TT: And at that time I remember they want him to endorse Obama during the call to station. So
he told me to tell them not to ask him about Obama... And also there was the .. We were talking
ich
to Cirque du Soleil.

Voth: And what do you recall about conversations...?

TT: We received a call from a gentleman... Wishna


ae
HW: Jack Wishna

JDG: Gentlemen ...Please Mr. Weitzman!


lJa

HW: Sorry

TT: Jack Wishna. And then we also received a call from a French lady. I did not speak to her. S
ck

he is from Cirque du Soleil. She spoke to Dennis Hawk. Michaels attorney. And...

Voth: Stop. Stop right there. When? What year did you receive the call from the French lady of
Cirque du Soleil?
so

TT: 2008... Or early 2009. I cant recall. I did not speak to her myself. She spoke to Dennis Haw
k.
n.c

Voth: ok. And what is your understanding as to what they spoke about?

HW: I will object Your Honor. Leading. Hearsay. It may be Hearsay ON Hearsay.

Jdg. Lets see.


o

Voth. oka
m

JDG: Overruled. Overruled.


Voth: OK. What is your understanding of what was conveyed to Dennis Hawk?
Te
HW: Your Honor, I am sorry. Just so the record is really clear. The testimony is going to be... M
r. Tohme is going to testify what a lawyer told him.. some third person told a lawyer. Just want t
o be sure ..
am
JDG: Overruled. Overruled.

Voth: What was going on with Cirque du Soleil?

HW: What is being offered, so the truth of the matter is certified ...
M
Jdg. overruled

Voth: What is your understanding of what was going on with Cirque du Soleil?
ich
TT: They want to do a show in Las Vegas.

Voth: A show about what? Wait. Did you have personal knowledge of that or is this what Mr.
Hawk told you?
ae
TT: No. I have a knowledge of this. Personal knowledge from Mr. Wishna. Not from the lady.

JDG: Is it based on what Mr. Wishna told you?


lJa

TT: Yes.

JDG: The objection is sustained.


ck

HW: Thank you ...

Voth: Your honor may I approach with ... exhibit... ....


so

JDG: You may.

Clerk: Exhibit 673R ... to mark for notation.


n.c

Voth: Do you know if Jack Wishna has passed away?

TT: Yes.
o

Voth: Ok. Looking at Exhibit 673R marked for notation. Email. Do you recognize this documen
t?
m

TT: Yes.
Voth: What is it?
Te
TT: Its an email that sent to me from Mr. Wishna.

Voth: Did you have discussions about Cirque du Soleil with Jack Wishna before receiving this e
mail?
am
TT: Yes. Over the phone.

Voth: Did you receive this email during the course of your representation of Michael Jackson?
M
TT: Yes.

Voth: Was it part of your regular business practice to receive emails on behalf of Michael Jacks
on?
ich
TT: Yes. Of course.

Voth: Did you retain this email in your regular course of business practices as Michael Jackson
s manager?
ae
TT: Yes.

Voth: Your honor respondent moves into evident Exhibit 673R


lJa

JDG: Submitted

HW: Objection. Hearsay. I want to make that objection clear. ... Jack Wishna didnt work for Ci
ck

rque du Soleil....

Judge well... I expect you to have the witness cross -examined


so

HW: Thank you

JDG: Go ahead Mr.Voth


n.c

Voth: With respect to Jack Wishna what is your understanding as to what he wanted to do with
Cirque du Soleil?

TT: He was familiar with the business...


o

Voth: And who is Jack Wishna? Who was Jack Wishna?


m

TT: He was some kind of promoter in Las Vegas...


Voth: And what was the outcome of the conversations you had with Jack Wishna regarding plan
s for Cirque du Soleil?
Te
TT: Well he was trying to meet with Michael. To talk to Michael and to me in regard to putting t
he show. And he arranged a meeting with Cirque du Soleil personnel.

Voth: So ...and...
am
HW/ Estate: I'm sorry. Is the question for Mr. Tohme to repeat a conversation with Jack Wishna
or is this dealing with him receiving ..?

Voth: We are identifying who Mr. Wishna is.


M
JDG: Go ahead, Mr. Voth.

Voth: Thank you your honor. Was there an agreement eventually signed between Michael Jacks
ich
on and Cirque du Soleil?

TT: No.

Voth: One moment, your honor.


ae
Voth: Do you have any personal knowledge of Michael Jacksons international appeal?

TT: Of course.
lJa

Voth: What is that personal knowledge?

TT: What do you mean by personal knowledge? What?


ck

Voth: What do you know about his person, involving international appeal?

HW/ Estate: I will object on hearsay... Mr. Jackson did not work internationally during the time
so

that Mr. Tohme was involved ... so accurately ...

JDG: ...Go ahead Mr. Voth


n.c

Voth: Please go ahead Mr. Tohme

TT: Well he was.Michael Jackson was one of the most popular entertainers on the planet.

HW/Estate: Objection, Objection, You Honor. That calls for speculation ... Unless you lay a fou
o

ndation for how he would know that


m

JDG: Lay foundation Mr. Voth


Voth: Thank you, your honor...

HW/Estate:... also calls for expert testimony...


Te
Judge: I THINK YOU NEED TO STOP DENYING MR JACKSON WAS THE GREATEST
ENTERTAINER..
am
HW: ...except I was involved ... so I have little more personal knowledge..

JDG: YOU ARE NOT A WITNESS... Go ahead Mr. Voth

Voth: Have you worked overseas? Have you worked outside the United States?
M
TT: Myself:

Voth: Yes.
ich
TT: Yes.

Q. Do you know people outside of the United States?


ae
TT: Of course.

Voth: What is your understanding of Michael Jacksons reputation overseas?... With the people t
hat you dealt with?
lJa

HW/ Estate: Sounds like he is asking for hearsay based on input from other people whove allege
dly spoke to him about Michael Jackson
ck

Judge. Sustained. Did you have access to Mr. Jacksons business records

TT: Yes. sir


so

Judge.. during the course of your representation?

TT: Yes sir


n.c

Judge: Did you have access to his interest papers?

TT: Yes.

Judge: Was he receiving royalties from sales overseas?


o

TT: Yes.sir
m

JDG: Go ahead Mr. Voth


HW/ Estate: im sorry
Just for the record .... There is a Court ruling that people giving opinion on Mr. Jacksons interna
Te
tional appeal because of a stream of revenue from his music sales when he wasnt touring ...

Judge Why is this a big deal Mr. Weitzman.?.. we know Michael Jackson sold many records ....
am
HW/ Estate: I cannot object to any of this ... I am just programmed into admissible evidence fro
m the Court ... And Ill just let .. your honor draw ...

JDG: Go ahead Mr. Voth


M
Voth: What is your personal knowledge of public perception of Michael Jackson?

TT: He had a great following


ich
Voth: Was Michael Jackson concerned about other entertainers perhaps trying to top Michael?

TT: Yes.

HW/ Estate:... Calls for speculation


ae
JDG: Go ahead. Overruled

Voth: How do you know this?


lJa

TT: Michael Jackson himself told me. He said they are trying to take the title the King of Pop fr
om him and give it to Justin Timberlake. So at that time when he told me that I told Randy Philli
ps that any publication, or any news release about Michael Jackson, anything, whenever they me
ck

ntion Michael Jackson, to put The King of Pop before his name. The King of Pop Michael Jac
kson.

Voth: Is that something that you also conveyed to James Nederlander for the Broadway show?
so

TT: I dont remember. I told that to Randy. And Paul Gongaware.

Voth: Talking about some of Michael Jacksons songs. Was Michael Jackson working on any n
n.c

ew music prior to his death?

TT: As far as I know, yes he was.

Voth: How do you know this?


o

TT: He told me. I saw him working.


m

Voth: And when you say you saw him working what does that mean?
TT: Well, he was still writing lyrics, writing music and he had people coming to him to work wi
th him. He was doing himself. And when he was in Las Vegas also he was. He told me that he ha
Te
d new songs.

Voth: You mentioned people coming to him. Can you elaborate?


am
TT: People like they were working with him.. There were some dancers. And there were some
musicians. And I remember Michael Prince .... He was who suggested at that time.

Voth: Who is Michael Prince?


M
TT: He is in the music business. He is a music writer/ producer

Voth: Can you mention another artist?


ich
TT He had a couple of dancers. I dont recall their names.

Voth: And is the name Akon familiar to you?

TT: Yes. Akon. Akon did a number with Michael. And that time Michael was very upset with
ae
Akon because Akon released the song on the internet. And he wrote some stuff about Michael.
Michael didnt like. So we had Peter Lopez call his manager and they removed ....

Voth: While you were working with Michael Jackson do you have any recollection as to how m
lJa

any songs that were new he finished?

TT: No. But there were few he said. I dont know.


ck

Voth: Lets delve a little bit more into this ... So when you managed Michael Jackson did you thi
nk he could work again?

TT: What?
so

Voth: Did you think whether he could work again?

TT: Yes. Because it was the biggest


n.c

and best way for him to create a lot of money. To my knowledge.

Voth: So then we delve a little more about AEG for how that came about. Can you take us to...
What year did planning start?
o

TT: 2008
m

Voth: Can you walk us through 2008 in terms of ...?


TT: Sorry. Can you repeat?

Voth: Sure. You mentioned 2008. Can you give us an idea as to the different steps that were tak
Te
en to plan for the tour?

TT: Yeah Well you know we


After the contract was signed with AEG he started rehearsing and also AEG was taking steps to a
am
rrange for the concert in London. And they were planning on what to do, what to send, and plann
ing renting a house for him in London during the tour. Also the arena. And we were working on
how to handle the merchandise, how to handle the sale, how to handle all these things that inclu
ded in the concert.
M
Voth: Did you participate in any negotiations with respect to the agreement that was signed betw
een Michael Jackson and AEG?

TT: Yes. What happened is the attorneys were working on it and I was aware of whats going on
ich
.

Voth: Ok. So you did participate?

TT: I am sorry.
ae
Voth: So you did participate?

TT: Participate. Yes. I had to know whats going on. I had knowledge of whats going on.
lJa

Voth: Do you recall how many concerts were initially planned for the This Is It concert series?
Approximately.
ck

TT: I think we started maybe with 10. Then Michael Jackson wanted to break Princes record at t
he 02 arena, which I think was 30 or 32 concerts. So he decided to do that. And then when we we
nt to London. And Michael went and ...
so

Voth: Stop right there ... When you went to London .... When did you go to London and who are
you referring to?

TT: I am referring to Michael Jackson and I, Randy Phillips, Paul Gongaware, some other peopl
n.c

e from AEG. This is when we decided the date for the concert and Michael touring. And he appe
ared at the 02 Arena to launch the concert.

Voth: Are you talking about the press conference?


o

TT: Yes. The press conference that took place at the 02 Arena.
m

Voth: Roughly do you know the number of seats that were at the 02 Arena?
TT: No. But all I know is we sold 14,000 tickets per minute.

Voth: Can you describe for us what happened the day that Michael Jackson announced the conc
Te
ert series This It It to the media?

TT: Was a frenzy. Was unbelievable! He was so happy. He was so excited when he saw that peo
ple still love him and care for him. So what happened is we decided at that time just to give him
am
confidence so we were letting the media know the next stop we are going to stop with Michael. S
o fans will show up. And the night when we announced the concerts he went to the Broadway an
d saw the show Oliver. And when we came out thousands and thousands of people were there.
We were shocked.
M
Voth: Was there an agreement between AEG and Michael Jackson that proposed developing thr
ee (3) films together?

TT: All I know is I know about one film. And this came later after the deal was signed for the co
ich
ncert. Michael only wants to do that . He told me people remember Elvis because he was in the
movies. People remember Frank Sinatra because he is in a movie. He wants to be in a movie. He
wanted to be remembered.

Voth: So lets move on to the rehearsal stage of This Is It concert series. There were canceled reh
ae
earsals that year...?

TT: Yes.
lJa

Voth: Were the rehearsals being filmed?

TT: Yes.
ck

Voth: What did you know about the filming of these rehearsals?

TT: All I knew is that they were shooting the rehearsals.


so

Voth: I'm sure your aware that there's a lot of disputes regarding whether you did or did not ceas
e being Michael Jackson's manager, when he died. What is your understanding?

TT: Can you rephrase that?


n.c

Voth: Sure. Were you Michael Jackson's manager, in your view, when he passed away?

TT: Of course I was his manager.


o

Voth: And why do you say that?


m

TT: Because I was his manager. I was with him a week before he died at the Staples Center. Ran
dy Phillips gave me ...like a pass... like a wrist thing to enter any time I want to the Staples Cente
r. And I was with Frank DiLeo over there. Michael Jackson told him to give me a big hug. And h
e said give your boss a big hug. Thats what he told Frank DiLeo.
Te
Voth: Who is Frank DiLeo?

TT: Who is Frank DiLeo? He used to work with Michael before. But somehow when Alfred Hus
sein showed up I told Michael, I'm not gonna set foot there. And after that I sent him the report o
am
n Alfred Hussein. And then there was from what I heard from others that it was a big ugly stuff
with that guy and DiLeo and Michael. And then they told me that they got rid of him. Then Mich
ael asked Randy Phillips, for me to come to the Staples Center.

Voth: And when was this again?


M
HW/Estate: Can I just add a running objection as hearsay. I know your gonna let it in, and...your
gonna allow it in for whatever purposes. I just want to add a running objection.
ich
JDG: Go ahead, Mr. Voth.

Voth: When was this meeting that you came back to...?

TT: Just two weeks maximum before he died.


ae
Voth: Was this at the Staples? .

TT: Yes, the Staples Center. Yes.


lJa

Voth: Did Michael Jackson ever inform you that you were no longer his manager?

TT: No.
ck

Voth: Did he ever provide you with documents revoking your authority?

TT: I saw that after he died. BUT, when he died..and I was at the hospital, at UCLA Hospital, R
so

andy Phillips came to me and said. Youre the manager, Dr. Tohme. Your the only one who has
a contract with AEG and he needed me to sign some document. .

Voth: And do you recall what this document was?


n.c

TT: It was regarding ... it has ...something has to do with the concerts, I can't recall.

Voth: So this was after Michael Jackson's death?


o

TT: It was in the hospital.


m

Voth: In the hospital?


TT: Yes, the day he died.

Voth: And Randy Phillips approached you?


Te
TT: And he told me you are the only one who has authority. He said to me, We need you to sig
n this document. And I did sign it.
am
Voth: You did sign it?

TT: Yes.

Voth: Do you know Michael Kane?


M
TT: Yes.

Voth: How do you know him?


ich
TT: Michael Kane, I met him before Michael died. I received a call from him and he said he was
working for Michael, and he asked me for some money. Because I was holding a large amount o
f money for Michael.
ae
Voth: And did he ask you to provide any financial information?

TT: No.
lJa

Voth: Did you have any further dealings with Michael Kane?

TT: Well he asked for some money and I sent him $100,000.
ck

Voth: Why did you send him $100,000?

TT: He said he needed to pay ...to make some payroll .And that money that I had in my posse
ssion, Michael told me never tell anyone I had it. Because it was savings to provide a house in L
so

as Vegas.

Voth: So Michael JACKSON gave you some cash?


n.c

TT: No what happened is, I found out that Sony owed Michael Jackson some money. That they
had not send it to him. So I contacted Sony. Also Peter Lopez contacted them. And we told them.
So they said, 'yeah you're right'...'this-and-
that'. So.. and then they sent the money. So I told Michael and he said, 'put it in your name', I sai
d 'no'. So I went and I opened and account in MJJ Productions, and I put in the bank, in his name
o

. But I was the sole signator on it.


m

Voth: Do you remember the amount?


TT: Around $11,000,000. (11 million dollars).

Voth: Were you requested to keep this a secret?


Te
TT: He told me he doesn't want anyone to know about it, and he said to me the more money co
ming from the trust or any money from his royalties to keep it with it so he could buy the house.
am
Voth: Did you have to give any of this cash to The Estate of Michael Jackson?

TT: Yes, I gave the remaining. Over $5,000,000. after his death. I sent the money to The Estate.

Voth: Okay. How did that come about?


M
TT: It wasn't my money. ...And I informed The Estate that I have the money. Everybody knew.
Mr. Weitzman knew I had the money. Randy Phillips knew I had the money. So, I gave it to the
m. It's not mine.
ich
Voth: And approximately, do you remember when you returned the money after Michael Jackso
n's death?

TT: Immediately after he died. I don't know the exact day. Maybe a week, maybe two weeks. N
ae
o longer than that. Because they were after me--
'they want it..they want it'. And my attorney told me not to give it to them. But I overruled him. I
gave it back to them.
lJa

Voth: Do you know a Karen Langford?

TT: No.
ck

Voth: Do you remember having any conversations with her during the course of your representa
tion with Michael Jackson?

TT: Who is she?


so

Voth: One moment your honor.

Voth: Are you in litigation with The Estate of Michael Jackson?


n.c

TT: Yes. We've been in litigation for seven years.

Voth: Do you recall a hearing before the labor commissioner?


o

TT: Yes.
m

Voth: And do you recall what was the outcome of that decision?
HW/Estate: Objection, it's hearsay...
Te
TT: Could I answer?

JDG: Yes, you may.


am
TT: The labor commissioner, he ruled in my favor for because the 15% was 7 %.

Voth: 7 % of what, do you recall?


M
TT: Total of the income of Michael Jackson.

Voth/IRS: No further questions, Your Honor.


ich
JDG: Will there be cross examination Mr. Weitzman?

HW. Yes, there probably will your honor


ae
Judge. Ill give you until lunch to think it over
lJa

(Break)
ck

Voth: Your Honor, just a couple housekeeping things before we start back, regarding the first
stipulation and regarding commissioner's (or petitioner's (?)) notice, the objections. Id like to have
it on the record. We could get those specific exhibit numbers that are relevant to the objection.
so

Judge: The exhibit?

Voth: Yes, Your Honor.


n.c

Judge: Okay.

Donna Hubert. Your Honor, we have a witness that's flying in from New York and fly back to
New York, scheduled for a concert at 3 o'clock, so if possible we like to allow that witness to
testify..
o

Judge: Is that Mr Nederlander


m

Attorney Yes: Thank you.


Judge. Do you have any problems with that?
Te
HW. I do. Contrast the testimony on the finder's fee agreement and the services agreement and the
indemnity agreement. 672? 672. 682,

Estate lawyer: 673 im sorry


am
HW. So, do you have those in hand?

TT Yes.
M
HW. So the first document dated May 2nd, 2008 addressed to Dr. Tohme Tohme: Dear Dr.
Tohme and then it has...whatever the language is in it... What is this agreement?

TT: This is the agreement regarding Neverland. We got on Neverland.


ich
HW: And when you say, We got on Neverland ..Who's we?

TT: Me.
ae
HW: And Michael Jackson?

TT: Yes.
lJa

HW: Oh. And what is the agreement provide for?

TT: Provides 10% of the total value of the loan.


ck

HW: And at the time the loan took place you were acting as Mr. Jackson's manager; his advisor,
correct?

TT: No at that time I wasnt his manager


so

HW: Were you acting as his advisor?

TT: No, I just came to the picture and I you know to, I was seeing if I can help with the loan for
n.c

him

HW: So you had told us earlier that you began working for Mr. Jackson, I thought you said March
or April. You started to work for him later than that?
o

TT: Well, in the beginning I was starting working on the Neverland deal. In the begning And then
after that he was calling me after Colony bought the loan, he asked me to work with him.
m
HW: And do you recall when Colony brought the note from Fortress that you talked about earlier
this morning?
Te
TT: I don't recall sir

HW: It was before this May 2nd 2008 deal was settled, wasn't it?
am
TT: I believe so.

HW: And does that May 2nd, 2008 letter apply to the deal that Colony Capital had done would
avoid buy out the note?
M
TT: Yes sir.

Hw: In other words, your already get 10% of something because your friend in the company you
worked for, Colony Capital, lent Michael Jackson money? Is that correct?
ich
Voth. Objection
Judge. Overruled
TT. Sorry what
ae
HW: Does this agreement provide that you already get 10%, and I want to talk to you about what
the sum of 10%.. you already get 10% of SOME SUM because Tom Barrack you told us was
like your brother and a friend and someone you worked for to lend Michael Jackson the money to
get him out of the Fortress..
lJa

TT: No no, it wasn't working for Tom Barrack. I was working with Tom Barrack. I didn't work for
him, I worked with him.
ck

HW Well were you um..

TT: I was a consultant for Colony but I was doing other things besides Colony.
so

HW Got it,. You did get a check from them every month.

TT: Absolutely, Yes


n.c

HW: How much was the check? How much did you get from Tom Barrack?

TT: $20,000

HW: And for that $20,000, did you work as a consultant?


o

TT: Yes.
m

HW: In other words that was your consulting fee. $20,000 a month was your consulting fee.
TT: Consulting fee plus I get part of any deal I make or involved in
Te
HW: ok, and so, ermm , you tell Mr. Jackson you had a consulting fee arrangement with Mr.
Barrack?

TT: He knew that because came to me because of my relationship with Colony.


am
HW: Did you tell Mr. Jackson you were receiving a consulting fee on a monthly basis from Tom
Barrack?

TT: Again, I can't remember if I told him or not.


M
HW: Well the fact is you didn't tell him, isn't that correct?

TT: I don't remember.


ich
HW: So how were you to be paid on the Neverland loan for Mr. Barrack taking out the Fortress
loan? Theres was 10% of what? What sum do you think you were entitled 10% of?

TT: The total value of the loan which was around 23 million plus. He paid people before me more
ae
than that, the 10% that he offered me. And he offered me more than that but I refused

HW: So the 10% you were to get, was that to come from Mr. Jackson portion of the loan proceeds?
lJa

TT: No. I don't know where it's going to come from. He promised me 10%.

HW: He, Mr. Jackson?


ck

TT: Yes.

HW: When you met Mr. Jackson was it fair to say that he was ..broke?
so

TT: No. for his status..He has doesnt have $200 million in the bank to me hes broke.

HW: Erm, Did he have problems paying his bills on a regular basis?
n.c

TT: At that time i didn't know anything about his financial situation until I started working with
him later on.

HW: Well, havent you said, that as you began to work with Michael, erm, he was basically broke,
o

he had no cash?
m
TT: Well he had cash as I just mentioned to you. To me broke.. for a guy with the status of Michael
Jackson, you know, that doesn't have some large amount of money, I was shocked he doesn't have
that money. I was shocked that he didn't have $23 million for Fortress
Te
HW: But he didn't have it?

TT: No
am
HW: So erm, was this a straight loan from Colony Capital? In other words they took out Fortress
and Mr. Jackson secured the loan with Neverland?

TT: At that time the attorney worked up a deal where they change because Michael, at that time,
M
didn't want anything anymore to do with Neverland, it was a terrible memory for him. So they
decided to do a joint venture and change the name of Neverland to Sycamore Valley as a different
name.
ich
HW: so, Who was, who was involved in making this change?

TT: it was involved in Between the attorney for Michael Jackson and attorneys for Colony.

HW: Who was the attorney for Michael Jackson?


ae
TT: (Earl Goodman (?)).

HW Earl Goodman,???????
lJa

TT. Yes sir

HW. And erm, Is it your recollection now that attorneys of Mr. Barrack basically bailed out
ck

Michael from a foreclosure from the Fortress loan and bought the note then made another deal
with Mr. Jackson after the original loan?

TT: No it was all the same deal, they didn't close the deal. He bought the note and then I thought
so

that Mr. Goodman felt the best way to do it, at that time with the attorney for Colony to go that
route ...and I dont know about these transaction.

HW: Is it your testimony that you were not involved in the remaining part of the transaction
n.c

between Colony Capital and Mr. Jackson regarding Neverland property?

TT: I was involved but I was not involved in connection what was involved in this agreement
because I'm not an attorney, I have no knowledge.
o

HW: So can you tell us what the agreement was as you understood it between Mr. Jackson and
Colony Capital in forming the Sycamore Valley Ranch joint venture LLC?
m
TT: I don't remember exactly what took place then, but all I know is it was like a partnership and
then when Michael Jackson paid the note to Colony with certain interest, and Colony at that time
the ranch was falling apart so they had to invest a lot of money to bring it back to its glory, so they
Te
want to sell it.

HW: ok, So Michael Jackson was able to avoid foreclosure on the ranch that he owned in Santa
Barbara County, erm, and, and Mr. Barrack bought the note for or on behalf of Michael?
am
Voth: Asked and answered, your Honor.

Judge, overruled
M
HW: ..And at that time when the loan was bought out, Michael Jackson, erm, based on his advisors
gave Mr. Barrack erm, security interest as collateral for his stake in the ranch for his taking out
the loan, correct?
ich
TT: No the ranch was collateral for the loan.

HW: And then, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't that first note a short term note, 4 or 6 months that
Mr. Barrack first loaned the 23 or 24 million dollars?
ae
TT: I believe so, it was for a short period of time, then the attorney suggested to work that deal
with changing the name to Sycamore Valley Ranch.

HW: And is it accurate that as those months past after Colony Capital took Fortress off the book
lJa

and put themselves on with respect to the loan, Mr. Jackson couldn't make the payment and a new
agreement was created?

TT: No, it has nothing to do with the payment. Michael at that time said, you know, it's a short
ck

(reprieve (?)), and at the time the attorney advised that this is not the final agreement with Colony.
It was set at the time, as I believe was just to get over and pay the note..buy the note from Fortress
and just move on with the --
so

HW: ..So did Mr. Jackson own 100% of Neverland when he was financed by Fortress?

TT: Yes.
n.c

HW: And after the Sycamore Valley Ranch was done, that is that new entity was created, Michael
Jackson only owned 50% of the ranch, correct?

TT: I don't remember the deal to be honest.


o

HW: Mr. Tohme,


m

TT. Yes
HW. didn't Mr. Jackson give up 50% interest in his ranch because he couldn't pay down the short
term note?
Te
TT: I don't know.

HW. Didnt her


am
TT. I dont know, To be honest I can't remember. I mean, the document, the documents you have
speaks for itself, that contract between Colony and Michael Jackson.

HW: Hang on. I'm going to get that for you to look at
M
(break as retrieve document into evidence)

Clerk. Exhibit 674P, marked for identification


ich
Voth. You honor may I say this seems to be the outside of the scope for this witness

Judge, overruled

HW. Your honor it will take 3 4 minute to find, can I go to the next area
ae
Judge???

HW: Mr. Tohme would you (????) that document, service agreement; exhibit C on the bottom. 3rd
lJa

page. Exhibit 672R Titled 'services agreement'.

(HW shuffling through documents)


ck

HW. Im sorry, I have One question I'm going to ask you about Neverland..about the Sycamore
Valley Ranch. At the time you were working with Mr. Jackson and the finder's fee was executed,
how long had you been a consultant for Tom at Capital?
so

TT: Four or five years, I dont recall

HW: And for all that four or five years had you been receiving a consulting fee?
n.c

TT: Yes.

HW: Was it roughly $20,000 during that four or five year arrangement?
o

TT: Yes.
m
HW: And if you look at page 1 of the, erm, erm, erm, finder's fee, paragraph 1, where it says
'services as a finder', and read: Your services as a finder for introducing a (client ?) based on your
substantial pre-existing relationships. Is that correct?
Te
TT: Yes.

HW: And, erm, Does this paragraph include your current relationships, your current consulting
am
relationships?

TT: You mean at this time?

HW: No. When this was written..


M
TT. Yes

HW. . You had a current, active, existing relationship with Colony Capital? When this was written
ich
May 2008, fast forward, May 2008 you had a, a existing active relationship with colony capital,
correct

TT: Correct
ae
HW: This document says 'substantial pre-existing relationships'. Correct?

TT: Yeah.
lJa

HW: Did you tell Mr. Jackson I asked you this before so if you still dont remember I got it,
did you tell Mr. Jackson that by pre-existing relationships you meant I have a current consulting
agreement?
ck

TT: I don't understand your question?

HW: Did you tell Michael Jackson before he signed this document giving you 10% of a personal
loan made to him collateralized by his real property that by pre-existing relationship, I mean right
so

now I'm consulting, getting $20,000. a month?

TT: Michael Jackson came to me because of my relationship with Colony Capital. I don't see where
the pre-existing or non-existing. He knew I was working with Colony. And the reason he sent
n.c

Jermaine to me because it was to go to Colony.

HW: And how would he know you were with Colony by the way

TT: I don't know, you'd have to ask him that.


o

HW: He didn't tell you?


m

TT: Who?
HW: Mr. Jackson?
Te
TT: We're talking about Jermaine, not about Michael.

HW: So Jermaine came to you because he knew you were with Colony?
am
TT: No, Jermaine came at the request of Michael Jackson. And Michael Jackson knew somehow
that I'm with Colony Capital, and since he was living in Las Vegas he knew who Tom Barrack is,
and that's one of the reasons he knew that Tom Barrack was willing and able to do such a thing..that
he needed a loan. That's why he came to me.
M
HW: And he knew Tom because of the Hilton

TT: The Hilton and he was part of other casinos...he was all over Las Vegas.
ich
HW: ok. Alright, Now going back to the service provider agreement, at page 3. What was this
document for, you can take your time and review it

TT. What do you mean what was this document for


ae
HW. What was the purpose

TT: For services, services provided to Michael


lJa

HW: Okay, and erm, Is there an exhibit attached to this service agreement that describes the
services you were to provide?

TT: No.
ck

HW. I thinks its fifth page

TT. Yes, it is
so

HW: ..And it says you were to provide services and then it has a list. I just want to go through the
list with you.for a moment. First it says 'coordinate authorized Warner Chappell releases'. What
does that mean?
n.c

TT. hmm

HW. What does that mean, If I were to say to you, Mr. Tohme, I'd like to pay you to be my
manager for your personal services, please coordinate authorize Warner Chappell releases, what
o

do you understand that--


m

TT: -- I understand that there's a lot of companies, they use Michaels music his images and so we
have to approve it--
HW: In other words, my words, if someone wants to license music that Michael Jackson owned
rights to, publishing compositions, they would go to Warner Chappell. And Warner Chappell
Te
would come to you to approve and license, someone is requesting from them to use whatever the
song or composition. Whatever. Did you do that during the time you represented Mr. Jackson--

TT: Yes I've done it and I kept doing it after his death. (in his stage performance (?))
am
HW: ..And the next thing it says is 'assist in event management'. What does that mean?

TT: Assist in event management, as it says. Like the concert, like everything, to be there with him
and to make sure everythings going the way he wants it.
M
HW: Next it says 'assist and maintain the license agreement and relationship with licensor'. What
does that mean?
ich
TT: Exactly what it says.

HW: Did you maintain any license agreements on his behalf?

TT: No.
ae
HW: Did you maintain any relationships with licensors on Mr. Jackson's behalf?

TT: Relationship with Sony and Warner Chappell and whoever his was working with.
lJa

HW: Other than Sony, that would be Sony Music?

TT: Yes.
ck

HW: Other than Sony Music and Warner Chappell, were there any other licensed agreements that
you dealt with to the best of your recollection
so

TT: Well we dealt with Nederlander..

HW: Was that a licensing?


n.c

TT: Yeah, well it's..I wouldn't call it a licensing fee but--

HW: Tell me what you would call a licensing deal, so I don't get mixed up?

TT: You won't get mixed up, you know better than me. So, I'm trying to say if somebody wants
o

to license some of Michael Jackson's work or his music or image, they call me. They first call
Warner Chappell, then they call me. We have the final word.. Michael has the final say: 'Yes' or
m

'No'.
HW: The next sentence reads, 'assist in coordinating payments with those providing services to
clients find and including without limitation accountants, advisors, attorneys and assistants.' I
know I read that correctly. Do you understand what that service meant?
Te
TT: I hope so.

HW: And did you deal with accountants, advisors, attorneys and assistants?
am
TT: Yes.

HW: Did the attorneys basically work for you?


M
TT: No, they worked for Michael Jackson.

HW: So what was your role then?


ich
TT: I was there to sit down and listen to what's going on and I used to pay the bills.

HW: When you say you used to pay the bills--

TT: I approved the bills.


ae
HW: You weren't signing the checks?

TT: I always signed check for the immediate help and security and his mother and et cetera.. his
lJa

needs.

HW: ...and 'negotiate and manage housing and personal business matters', I assume that
responsibility is how is reads?
ck

TT: Yeah, rent the house for him, you know he looked at it, he liked it, rent it and pay for it, sign
the contracts.
so

HW: That's the Carolwood house?

TT: Yeah.
n.c

HW: Did you rent any other houses for him other than the Carolwood house?

TT: No.

HW: And the Carolwood house was a house in Holmby Hills and the lease was $100,000. a month?
o

TT: Yes sir.


m

HW: How was Mr. Jackson able to pay for that?


TT: Uh..AEG paid.
Te
HW: Was that part of the cost they were entitled to recoup when the tour took place and revenue
started to come in

TT: Yes
am
HW: According to Sony Music regarding licensing, acquisitions and distributions. Did you work
with Sony Music?

TT: Yes.
M
HW: And when you talk about licensing, what are you referring to?

TT: Licensing for any new music. We were working on, Sony at that time, an idea, we were looking
ich
at a new catalog, I think Sammy Davis Jr. and others that he sent me. He told me to check with
Michael. They were going to buy it.. with Michael, so I told Michael and he said, Go ahead and
do it, buy it.

HW: Just so you and I are on the same page, that reads 'coordinate with Sony Music'. You're
ae
describing a potential purchase by Sony/ATV different from Sony Music - right?

TT: Right.
lJa

HW: And although it's not on this list, part of what you did was participate on Michael's behalf
with respect to Sony/ATV business, is that correct?

TT: Right.
ck

HW: Sony/ATV was kind of a operating business that went out and sold and bought publishing,
publishers and writers, correct?
so

TT: Yes.

HW: And then next, it says 'negotiate (????) placements, memorabilia, licensing arrangements and
animation projects'. Pretty clear we both know what that means, right?
n.c

TT: Yeah.

HW: Were you able to, during the time you worked with Mr. Jackson were you able to negotiate
any product placements?
o

TT: Negotiate the..we were working as a (????) in regard to the Nike shoes for the Moonwalk. We
m

were working, not me at that time I told Randy to do it, negotiating with Bravado.
HW: You mean, You're talking about the tour merchandise?

TT: Yes, And then we did the Nederlander deal. And Mr. Howard on the Thriller show.
Te
HW: Andy Hayward

TT: Hayward
am
HW: And Andy eventually backed out from the show, right?

TT: I don't know if he backed out but Michael passed away and then everything stopped.
M
HW: Didn't Andy send you an email stating he no longer felt that, he wanted to work on the show?

TT: I think I recall something like that, yes.


ich
HW: And wasn't part of the issue of the (?)) that you, you being your client and what you're
representing, you had to provide certain rights to Thriller that you weren't able to provide?

TT: No there was an issue with Landis, that had to provide


ae
HW: Wasn't there also an issue with Rod Temperton?

TT: No, Rod, not at that time. In the beginning he didn't want to cooperate with Michael, and then
after a few weeks Michael spoke to him and then, when were in London, and then he spoke to
lJa

him and he spoke to his wife, and he changed his mind. But I think it was maybe too late

HW: And the erm, To get to the bottom line that project never happened and they backed out,
correct?
ck

TT: (Yes (?))

HW: Okay, with respect to the shoes, let talk about the shoes. Your contacted by somebody named
so

(Dennis Depovip (?)), correct?

TT: Yes, from Nike?


n.c

HW: Nike.

TT: Yes.

HW: Did Dennis tell you that he worked at Nike but this was a project he was doing on his own
o

and not connected with Nike?


m

TT: No I dont recall him saying that, I dont remember him telling me that
HW: Do you know that Nike sued Dennis and Mr. (Dalsay, his erm one of his partners

TT: I heard that he was sued by Nike,


Te
HW. And

TT. but I don't know why.


am
HW: Well, did you hear that he was sued because of, they were talking about launching a shoe
called Moonwalker outside of their responsibility at Nike? and their current investments?

TT. No sir
M
HW. Did he ever tell you that he was looking for investors?

TT: I can't remember.


ich
HW: So did you think you were dealing with Nike?

TT: Yes.
ae
HW: By the way, speaking with you, when you had one phone call with Jack Wishna, correct

TT: No. More then one, maybe three times.


lJa

HW: And you told me at your deposition that you thought Jack Wishna worked for Cirque, isn't
that correct?

TT: Yes.
ck

HW. And since that

TT. He told me he had a relationship with Cirque du Solei


so

HW: You told me he worked for Cirque.

TT: I did say that, yes.


n.c

HW: But you made a mistake by not saying (????).. You were mistaken. You were mistaken as it
turned out, isn't it?
(voice over)
o

TT: I was not mistaken, Mr. Weitzman. He told me he worked with Cirque du Solie and he had a
huge company in Las Vegas and he mentioned a dear friend of mine that can vouch for him, and
m

lives in Vegas..
HW: And, Other than one or two calls ou had ywith Wishna, you never heard from anyone again
with respect to that project?
Te
TT: No, he flew to Los Angeles.

HW: Did he meet with you?


am
TT: I think I met him or, I can't remember but he flew to L.TT: ...No I didn't met him because he
flew to L.TT: I remember that to see me and then I didn't see him.

HW: I mean you did. Do you remember telling me in your deposition that you never met him?
M
TT: No I don't. I just said that.

HW: And, erm, Didn't the deal then, to use your words, went dead?
ich
TT: Yeah. I mean, deal fell through, he died.

HW: No I'm not talking about him dying because Mr. Wishna--

TT: No I'm talking about Mr. Jackson.


ae
HW: While Mr. Jackson was alive you didn't hear anything further from Mr. Wishna regarding
Cirque, correct?
lJa

TT: No.

HW: And you did talk to anyone directly working for Cirque, did you?
ck

TT: No, Dennis Hawk did and

HW. Your Honor, I'm going to object and move to strike. Hearsay.
so

HW: You personally never talked to anyone from Cirque, did you?

TT: No sir.
n.c

HW: And you personally never heard from anyone from Cirque again after the Wishna contact,
correct?

TT: I heard from people from the MGM Hotel.


o

HW: Um...Just correct me if I'm wrong, is the MGM Hotel the same as Cirque du Soleil?
m

TT: No, Cirque du Soleil is a show and MGM Hotel is a hotel.


HW: Let's talk about the Broadway play for a moment. The Broadway play was a deal that involved
creating a musical stage play around Thriller, is that correct?
Te
TT: Yes.

HW: And the musical stage play also required you, by 'you' I mean the global 'you'..Mr. Jackson
team to provide the rights to Thriller and other Rod Temperton songs, is that correct?
am
TT: Correct

HW: And you actually signed the deal to create this musical stage play, correct?
M
TT: Well, Michael Jackson signed it. Not me.

HW: Michael Jackson signed it?


ich
TT: Yes.

HW: And the Rod Temperton songs..Thriller and two or three other songs, might be one off the
Off The Wall album.. none of those were delivered at the time that contract was in effect, correct?
ae
TT: Well at that time we didn't know what kind of material Mr Nederlander need, so the deal was
signed without any demand for any material from Michael Jackson at that time.

HW: And Michael Jackson was not going to be part of that , correct, he wasnt going to perform,
lJa

TT: No, of course not.

HW: You say 'of course not' because it's your understanding that Michael Jackson at this stage was
ck

not going to be performing live on Broadway?

TT: No he said..Michael, you know, after what happened to him in Santa Barbara..and he left the
country.. he did not want to perform in the United States. He thought that, he was really badly hurt.
so

He was very upset about what the media wrote about him, and he felt like people were against
him.. like just to destroy him and destroy his image. So that's why he didn't want to perform in the
United States and that's why when AEG started talking to us regarding having a concert, he wanted
to do it in England.
n.c

HW: So whatever the conversation was with the Nederlander, it didn't involve Mr. Jackson
performing in that show, correct?

TT: correct
o

HW: So, erm, and Again, I notice the service agreement and the erm im sorry, the finder's fee,and
m

the services agreement, you have those in front of you


TT. Yes

HW. Ok, I just want to go back for a moment to that. Cause we went through the services on the
Te
list. And the last schedule A, according to that he was to perform, to be agreed 'live and taped
performance, motion pictures, music career issues'. Did you try to do that while you worked for
him..Michael Jackson?
am
TT: Yes I did. Yes.

HW: Ok, right, According to the front page of this agreement paragraph 2.1, contract clause, it
also indicates you were to receive a monthly fee of $35,000., correct?
M
TT: Correct.

HW: And that was used for expenses of the business, correct.
ich
TT: Correct

HW: Erm, And it also says you are to receive, in paragraph 2.1, few lines up from the bottom, 15%
of all gross compensation received by the client during the term of this agreement, is that what it
says?
ae
TT: Yes.

HW: And ah, and ah, the term of this agreement ran how long, sir, 3/1 paragraph, page 2. Did it
lJa

terminate if either party wished to a terminate?

TT: I'm sorry, I don't know where you are.


ck

HW: Page 2 3.1, page that says 'terms'.

TT. 3.1. Yes


so

HW. So, Why don't you just read that page to yourself and tell me if my understanding is the same
as yours. ...

TT. (shuffles through papers)


n.c

HW. Have you had to review it Mr Tohme Does it basically say that either party can terminate this
agreement by written notice to the other?

TT: Yes.
o

HW,, (shuffles through more docs)


m

HW: Mr. Tohme, hang on a second


(shuffling through papers)
Te
Clerk. 675P

HW. Could you give two copies, one to the witness


am
HW: Now , erm. Mr. Tohme, this erm, this revocation of your Power of Attorney that you
spoke of earlier this morning, dated April 14th 2009, seems to be notary stamped and Michael
Jackson's signature. Did you receive that on or about April 14th 2009?

TT: No.
M
HW: When is the first time you saw this?

TT: Later, maybe, It think in June or something else like that.


ich
(shuffling through papers)

HW: Mr. Tohme, this is a document marked April 22nd 2009, it's exhibit number 676P. And it
reads, it's to Randy Phillips and it reads, Dear Randy, This letter shall serve to confirm that im
ae
not using Dr. Tohme for tour production and services, and I do not intend to use Dr. Tohme in the
future. To procure production management services or with respect to other events related matters.
Therefore you are not authorized to pay Dr. Tohme or any of his affiliated companies for any such
services in connection with my upcoming tour or any future tours or other events thats pursuant
lJa

to the production and management agreement ??? dated 2009. This refers to a document different
than your services agreement, correct, that is it refers to producers and management which is
different to the services agreement, correct
ck

TT: Yeah, what are you trying to tell me?

HW: I'm actuallywell you dont want me to say what im trying to tell you
so

(Estate attorneys laugh out loud in court room)

TT: No, but I'm saying to you, you're reading this letter--
n.c

HW. Yeah? ...Well I want to know if you've seen it before today?

TT: Yeah I've seen it before today--

HW: When's the first time you saw it?


o

TT: After Michael's death.


m

(shuffling of papers)
HW: Okay.
Te
HW. (shuffles more papers)

(677)
am
Clerk. 677P marked for identification

HW. So Letter dated May 2nd 2009


To Whom It May Concern, and it reads. Purpose of this letter is to confirm I am appointing
Frank Dileo as one of my new representatives in tour management on my behalf only when
M
instructed. Thank you for your cooperation. Erm, Mr Tohme do you recall seeing this document?

TT. I have never seen it


ich
(Shuffles around for another few minutes)

(HW. 678, do we have 678)

Clerk. 678P marked for identification


ae
HW. Mr Tohme, erm, 678 is May 5th 2009. Reads as follows. At my direction and effective
immediately, Dr. Tohme R. Tohme is no longer authorized to represent me in any capacity, nor
conduct any personal or professional business on my behalf. Signature, erm, looks like hand
lJa

written signature then it says Michael Jackson. Erm, do you remember seeing this document before
today

TT: I've seen it, yes.


ck

HW Do you remember when you saw it?

TT: After his death, and this is not Michael Jackson.


so

HW. When you say, Not Michael Jackson, you mean in your opinion it's not Michael Jackson's
signature?
n.c

TT: Exactly. The mail, and the paper it all came in the same week.

HW. : You mean it all came..Mr. Tohme-- there's seven days in a week.

TT: Huh?
o

HW,: It didn't come in the same week, there's only seven days in a week.
m
TT: There's seven days. It's May 2nd and April 22nd, May 5th, im talking about the letter Frank
Dileo
Te
HW.: I know you think I can't read a calendar but they didnt come in seven days.

TT: You're right. I made a mistake.


am
HW.: So

HW(yes ,, talks to other lawers)

HW. is it your testimony today that you never saw any of these revocations of Power of Attorney
M
or relieving you of your responsibilities until Michael passed away?

TT: Yes.
ich
HW.: erm, did anyone tell you, erm, mid-April, that, erm Michael wanted to make a change in his
management?

TT: No.
ae
HW.: So, You, YOU, you email.

TT. What
lJa

HW. You email, correct

TT. yes
ck

HW, You email, you type and

TT. Michael died,


Erm,
so

TT: I don't type, I have someone type for me. I type slow.

HW.: But do you do it yourself sometimes?


n.c

TT: Yes.

HW.: Okay. ..So I would like this marked 679, please.

(Clerk. 679P entered into evidence)


o

HW.: Mr. Tohme, erm, this exhibit 679 is an email exchange between you and Randy Phillips.
m

Starting with email you sent to Randy Phillips dated April 25th 2009. Do you recall sending this
email? Just take a minute and read it first to refresh your memory.
TT. Okay
Te
HW. have you read it

TT. yeah
am
HW. Do you recall sending the email to Mr. Phillips?

TT. I think I did sent this emal yes.

HW.: Probably somebody typed this for you?


M
TT: Yes.

HW.: Okay, so.erm, Is it fair to say this email was sent because somebody had told you, or you
ich
had heard or read that you were being replaced by Michael.

TT: No. The reason for this email was, as I told you earlier, that guy Alfahd Hussain, I did not go
to the house where Michael resides and I told him that i would not be back until he got rid of him.
And then suddenly I heard Frank DiLeo showed up, this show up, etc, cetera, and they were all
ae
working on Michael. And aa, So therefore since I wasn't there with him and when your Michael
Jackson a lot of people put words in your ears.. so I was lost in what's going on with me or Michael,
and I spoke to Michael on the phone and he never said anything to me that I'm terminated or im
out or anything of that sort. And then HE asked for me to go and meet with him.. I did not go.. he
lJa

told me, I need you, I want you ..and the witness for that is Randy Phillips. And then they said
why don't you take care of all of the stuff you were doing with Michael. And then Frank DiLeo..I
said no I'm not going to work with Frank DiLeo. I'm not going to work with any of them. So I
listened to Michael and I will, the only way to solve this issue off communications with me, to me,
ck

was sit face-to-face with Michael.

HW.: And then Randy Phillips replied to you as follows on the top of this document it says, Doc,
The problem is MJ. His positions had to change from day to day. I am not sure what he acutally
so

wants, so that is why I'm recommending getting a business arrangement set with him and then
work together on a project by project basis at his solicitation. At this point he's told Paul and me,
that he doesn't want you to manage him. I'm not sure he wants Frank to manage him either. He
tends to be suspicious of everyone and their motivations. It's very hard for you or any of us to
n.c

function like this. At the end of the day my response.. And who is 'Paul' that he is referring to?

TT: Paul Gongaware.

HW.: So this response from Mr. Phillips on April 25th 2009 lets you know at some point that at the
o

time of this email Michael had told Paul, Randy Phillips that he didn't want you anymore.
m

TT: Well Michael would tell you something and then he would change his mind at night.
HW.: Okay. ...Your Honor, I'd like to move these exhibits into evidence.

Voth: Objection Your Honor. These documents were never exchanged during correspondence.
Te
The parites have worked very closely together and exchanging all documents and would also like
to object on the lack of authentication.

HW. These documents


am
Judge: (????)

(shuffling through papers)


M
HW.: So. Mr. Tohme, um Did you receive a medical degree from the University of Barcelona?

TT: No.
ich
HW.: Did you receive a Ph. D. in Economics from the American University of Beirut?

TT: I went there but I did not finish.

HW.: Do you remember having your deposition taken on the AllGood matter on June 2nd 2010?
ae
The litigation between AllGood and the Estate of Michael Jackson?

TT: Yeah I was a witness.


lJa

HW: Yes you were my witness,

TT: Yeah. And the question was asked after the, you asked. Kathy Jorrie to asked me that, asked
me that question and it was after we finished the deposition and I corrected this deposition, I gave
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it to my attorney.

HW.: So at the deposition Ms. Jorrie asked you about your education high school, college and
you answered, I have a high school, I have a college degree, I have a medical degree, I have an
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economics degree.. Do you remember giving those answers?

TT: I don't remember. I could well have said that


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HW: Do you remember Ms. Jorrie saying to you Tell us what it is, here's your chance.. and you
said, I have an MD degree, I have a Ph. D. in Economics.. Did you give get those answers?

TT: Yes.
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HW: And do you remember her asking, Where did you receive your last degree, was that your
m

Ph. D. in Economics? Your answer was, Yes. She asked was university and your answer was,
The American University, I don't know what year. And she asked you, The American
University of Beirut, Lebanon, and you said, Uh-uh
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TT: Yeah.

HW And then she asked you, Where did you receive your medical degree?, and you said from
Spain She said, Which university?, you said, Barcelona, correct?
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TT: Correct.

HW: And those answers to those questions even though you were under oath were not correct,
right?
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TT: Well first of all let me remind you that I was your witness on that--

HW: You were and you testified--


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TT: Okay, let me finish. First of all the reason I answered the way I answered to clear it up, was
because you guys hired a private investigator that put unwanted add of me on the internet. And//

HW: When you say you guys, I know you're not referring to me
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TT: The Estate! ...The Estate! you know or anybody, you torture me, in a way, in the media. You
send your investigator to Sacramento to a girl I met 35 years ago, and she's married and she's a
grandmother.. and we were married for a short period of time.. and then our parents dissolved the
lJa

marriage. It was after 55 years he went to Sacramento to interview this woman to find anything
about me. And the reason for these answers is because I don't want you to know. Because you put
all things about me..asking all kinds of questions about me in the media, I'm a very highly educated
person, I speak many languages, okay and I don't know what else to tell you.
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HW: Its a good opener

TT: Whatever.
so

HW. Can you mark these transcripts of depositions into evidence?

TT. You honor this was corrected and sent back to them
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HW. Iim going to move these into evidence

Clerk marked ??? in for identification


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Voth. I want to object (????)


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(Judge speaking, admitted for reference only)


HW. Yes you honor

HW: Okay. Going back to 672, that's the finder's fee on the Neverland and services agreement of
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Mr. Tohme, again, the services agreement, 3rd page, in that exhibt, says 'contract price' 2.1..last
paragraph. That starts additionally, .are you there?

TT: Which one now?


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HW: It's page 3 of exhibit 672R, it's 2.1, the last paragraph were it says 'contract price' ..and it's
even highlighted. Last sentence

TT: Yes.
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HW: It reads, 'Additionally with regards to services outlined in this agreement service providers
shall receive 15% percent of all the gross compensation received by client for the services within
the entertainment industry including live personal performances, merchandising, electronic arts,
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recorded and live telecasts, motion pictures and animation projects. Did I read that correctly?

HW. Yes
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TT. Yes

HW. So prior to Mr. Jackson dying, did you erm, did he receive any money for live performances
that you commissioned?
lJa

TT: I don't understand your question.

HW: Did you commission 15% of monies Mr. Jackson received for any live performances before
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he died?

TT: No, he didn't have a chance to perform.


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HW: So you did not commission, before he died, any monies from live performances that he
received?

TT: No.
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HW: Did you receive any commission for merchandise for money that Michael Jackson received
for merchandizing before he died?

TT: No.
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HW: Did you receive any commission, pardon me, did you commission any money that Michael
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Jackson received for participating in any electronic arts program or opportunity?


TT: No.

HW: Did you commission any money that Michael Jackson received for participating in any
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recorded or live telecasts?

TT: No.
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HW: Did you commission any money received by Michael Jackson that he received before he died
for any motion pictures he appeared in?

TT: No.
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HW: Did you commission any monies received by Michael Jackson before he died for
participating in any animation projects?

TT: No.
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HW: Your Honor, I know that Miss (????) is here for the 3 o'clock witness, thats going to be a
live witness, how do you want to handle that because (????)

Judge: I understand Mr Nederlander???????


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HW. I understand

Judge ..We will take a ten minute break.


lJa

(Break)
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Q: Mr. Tohme, uh...before you are documents here,. Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC.

Exhibit, umI dont know what exhibit number is that


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Voth: 674P

Q: Right. 674P, do you have that, sir? ...674, Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC. And, I
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wanted to refer you to section. Paragraph C, just about 10%-15% from the top. You see, it says

'Jackson Member' on it?

TT: Yes
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HW: And I would like to read to you sir, first See if that refreshes your memory on what happened
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with this transaction. It says, 'Jackson member, Simultaneously with the execution and delivery
of this agreement and each of the transaction documents, Jackson Member will contribute to the

company by delivering to escrow fee simple title to and ownership of the property together with
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all right, title and interest, if any, of Jackson Member in and to any unpaid award made or to be

made for the taking by condemnation or otherwise..'


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Those words that I read, did they help refresh your memory that in the November 2008 agreement

for the Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC, he had transferred ownership of the Neverland

Ranch to the Sycamore Valley Limited Liability Company?


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TT: Right.

Q: And is this also the document, if you look halfway down on the page--where
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TT: What page are you at?

Q: Same page. Page 26. And I'm actually asking you something, you uh, you referenced earlier

which was the removal of excluded personal property. Is this the paragraph that you had
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reconfigured to allow Mr. Jackson to remove his personal property from the ranch?

TT: Its what was agreed on


lJa

Q: But originally you told us this morning that Colony had included personal property--

TT: Yes they did


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Q: --and you changed that?

TT: No, I have a document to the fact that they want all the property.. and then we challenged
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that and I spoke to Tom Barrack and he told Fuhrman to change it. (????)

Q: And this is the change in the document, correct?


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TT: I think so.

Q: Okay. Thank you, sir. Okay. ...The finder's fee that we spoke about, May 2nd, 2008. Finder's

fee. Actually, it doesn't say finder's fee but it's first page of exhibit 672R referring to your 10%..uh,
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fee. Um, you don't have a broker's license, do you?


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TT: No.

Q: And do you have any license dealing with real estate?


TT: No.

Tohme: Can I ask you a question?


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(Judge?): No.

HW.I want my lawyer.


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Weitzman: All right. Um, so..after Neverland Ranch transaction, were you then kind of in full

management, um, of Michael Jackson?

TT: After the Neverland?


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Q: Yes. You remember Mr. Barrack paid off the Fortress Loan.. and that was around, I believe it

was May 2008. And by that time were you in the midst of managing Michael Jackson?
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TT: We were in discussion about that, I was not his manager then.

Q: When did you begin to manage him?

TT: Look at the service agreement and management agreement it tells you
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Q: June?

TT: June or July.


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Q: So before that management agreement you were notbefore signing the agreement you were

not involved in any management responsibility?


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TT: I was helping him in his, you know, his daily affairs living affairs thats all

Q: So..after that agreement was signed, do you recall what you first did with respect to the
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management part of your responsibilities, and I'm talking about the entertainment related

responsibilities?
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TT: What did I do?

Q: YEAH.

TT: After signing the management agreement.


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Q: YES. What did you do?


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TT: Well, as I told you earlier, I started talking to..with AEG, I started talking to Live Nation..you

know, whoever was there that wanted to work with Michael.


Q: ...Okay. Um, you had conversation with Live Nation, you had conversations with AEG.. you

also told us you started to, uh, clean house, correct?


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TT: Correct.

Q: And did you actually..um, um, I'm not being facetious when I ask you this question.. did you
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actually go into Michael Jacksons living space and clean some things up?

TT: Yes.

Q: What is it you cleaned up?


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TT: Some painkillers. And some pills.

Q: Medication?
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TT: Medication, yeah.

Q: Did you go to the..I'm sorry, rather than me guessing how'd-- I mean how did that work, I mean

HOW did you do that?


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TT: Well, I mean, he was..from what I observed he was taking some pills, he claimed that its a

painkiller for his foot and I told him you should get out of everything and if you have any pain you
lJa

should.. I'll take you to a doctor or bring a doctor to the house and he can check it out and if you

need any medication for that purpose he will give it to you. Then I took everything that he has and
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dumped it.

Q: And do you recall if he said anything when you did that?


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TT: I'm sorry?

Q: Do you recall if he SAID anything to you--


n.c

TT: Oh, he just looked at me and smiled.

Q: Okay. Do you know whether he continued to use painkillers or any type of medication as the

months went on after that incident?


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TT: Not to my knowledge.


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Q: Um, when you say not to your knowledge, is it fair to say if he did you didnt see it and you

never knew that?


TT: I never seen him take anything.

Q: So, for those first few months, as I understand it, Im asking you, did he continue to live in Las
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Vegas?

TT: At that time he was still in Las Vegas.


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Q: And when did the conversations begin to take place about buying Prince Jefris house?

TT: Right after, I think, when we were working on Neverland. I mean, he loved that house and

ah..he asked to spend some nights there and it was arranged, he spent a couple of nights in the
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house and he loved the house, that's all he wanted.

Q: And was the house for sale?


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TT: It wasnt on the market, but it was, you know, for the right price at that time.

Q: Do you recall what the price was?

TT: Well, they were asking over $100,000,000 million dollars. The house cost millions of millions
ae
of dollars, but we came to an agreement of 25 million or 50 million, I can't remember.

Q: And when you came to some agreement. and by the way, youre not talking about a deal,
lJa

youre just talking about agree on some price to see if you could buy it, right?

TT: Yes.
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Q: Right. And do you recall when you reached an agreement on what a fair sale price would be?

TT: it was later on, way later


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Q: Later than 2008?

TT: Yeah, later. More like 2009. I can't recall the exact date. ..But he kept pushing, he want the
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house, that's all he want, the house.

Q: Um, but at the time he didnt really have the money to buy a house, correct?

TT: Well I mean, he had, he had.. I mean, I don't know why you see all over the place 'he doesn't
o

have the money'. He didnt have money to buy the house, you know, as far as I know.. but he had
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a lot of assets.

Q: So.. did you tell him, Michael, we cant afford this house now?
TT: Well, when he wanted also to buy a house in Los Angeles and so we saw a house at that

time they were asking a hundred million dollars. And.


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Q: In Los Angeles?

TT: In Los Angeles. So, I told him, he can't buy this house and buy that house. And uh, we saw a
am
house, me and Randy Phillips, in Bel-Air, and so he asked me, 'Can you talk to the guy? I want

to spend the night. I wanna see' he's a spiritual guy.. he said to me, 'I wanna feel the house'.

So then I arranged for them to stay there and the following morning he said to me, you know, 'No.
M
I dont want to stay here, this house is no good for me, its spirit is not.. there for me.

Q: Um..And do you know where that house was located?


ich
TT: In Bel Air

Q: Palomino, did you attempt to talk Michael to move out to Palomino in Las Vegas and to Los

Angeles?
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TT: Yes.

Q: And how did he finally end up moving to Los Angeles?


lJa

TT: Well, in the beginning he was a little hesitant, he didnt really want to come back. But then,

after we started talking about his coming back to work and it was all stuff, he said 'Fine'. And then
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what really did it also was that, as I told you before, that he received a letter from a school across

the street and etc., and so, uh, he told me and he was crying so I needed to go to Vegas and
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bring him here to Los Angeles.

Q: And uh, the letters dealt with the allegations that had kind of haunted him for a number of
n.c

years, correct?

TT: Yes.

Q: By the way, is-- is it-- that's a fair statement to use that these allegations haunted him..probably
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until the day he died?


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Voth: Objection, calls for speculation.

Judge: Overruled.
TT: I mean, whenever the subject comes up, of course, he felt bad about it.

Q: Um.. but.. did you feel that these allegations haunted him?
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TT: I dont understand what you mean by 'haunted' him, I mean, he wasnt jumping up and down

everyday and telling me that, you know, what they did to me is.. not acceptable.
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Q: Do you remember being asked the following questions and giving the following answers. At

page 29 lines 10-15 of your deposition, January 16, 2017, asked by me?

TT: What page?


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(long pause, looking through deposition)

Q: Question at line 10: Did the child molestations, child molestation allegations continue to kind
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of-- Answer: Haunt him. Question by me: Haunting, that's actually a good phrase? Answer: Yes.

Do you remember my asking you that question.. and you actually described to me that

the....allegations.continued to haunt him.


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TT: Yeah, it continued to haunt him. ...Why you want to say it haunted him.

Q: So...when you first started working with Michael, um, he didn't have any..any endorsements,
lJa

did he?

TT: At that time?


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Q: Yes.

TT: I dont remember that time..I remember that Peter Lopez was working with Pepsi Cola at that
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time on an endorsement.

Q: So, can we read page 32 line 6 of Mr. Tohmes deposition. Questioned by me to you: When
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you first began working with Michael, he didnt have any endorsement deals, did he that you

know? Answer: At that time there were no endorsements because Michael was away for so long.

Do you remember I asked you that question?


o

TT: Yes I said that, yes


m
Q: Well, you have a better memory. ..But your not changing it, correct? : Okay. So...you told us

about some of the things you worked on. Um, in or about April, were you informed that Frank
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DiLeo was becoming involved?

TT: Who's on trial here, me or The Estate?


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Judge: ...Just answer the question.

HW: You are not

TT. Okay, thank you


M
Q: So, um. in or around April 2009, were you informed that Frank DiLeo was going to work with

Michael in some fashion?


ich
TT: I heard it somewhere, yes.

Q: And as you sit there now, do you recall who you heard that from or how you heard it?

TT: I think I heard it um, firsthand from Randy Phillips, he told me, you know, Frank DiLeo..
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somehow he showed up.. something to that effect. And..thats all I learned at that time.

Q: And and..had you met Frank, up until that time?


lJa

TT: No.

Q: Did you ever end up working with Frank on Michaels behalf?


ck

TT: No

Q: Did you have a meeting at the Staples Center with Michael Kane, Randy Phillips, Michael
so

Jackson and Frank DiLeo--

TT: --Yeah.
n.c

Q: --a few days before he died?

TT: Yes.

Q: And at that meeting were you asked by Michael to turn over the money you were holding to
o

Michael Kane?
m

TT: No, never happened.

Q: So, was the only time you turned the money over after um.. I um.. asked you to turn it over?
TT: I'm sorry, I missed the question.

Q: Was the ONLY time you turned the money over, after Michael died, and I asked you..remember
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I told you I was gonna go to court if you didn't turn it over?

TT: Yeah, and I told you at that time, if you remember, that my wife was very sick and Im going
am
to see her to St. Johns hospital--

Q: --I remember that.

TT: And then you sent me that nasty email that youre gonna go to court.--
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Q: --It was a lawyer email.

TT: Huh? No, but Im saying to you is.. the money, I didnt hold the money, I had this money for
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over--almost a year and a half. And when he passed away, I didn't know who's who, who to give

the money to. And then when it was decided thatMichaelI mean, John Branca and John

McClain are the Trustees..I spoke to my lawyer, he told me, 'don't give them the money, hold the
ae
money'. But I overruled him and I turned the money over to The Estate. ...That's what I did. That's

it exactly
lJa

Q: So, do you remember that the email you got from me was on or about July 15th?

TT: I cant remember the date.


ck

Q: But after you got it, you did cause the money to be wired to me, to the account?

TT: Of course.
so

Q: And how much did you cause to be wired to the account?

TT: I can't remember.


n.c

HW: Who introduced you to ermmm (looks through his documents)

TT: What
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Mr. Voff: Your honor respondent would like to enquire as to the relevance to this line of
questioning as it seems that moreover its for the litigation going on between the estate and Tohme
m

HW: Uhm
Judge: Mr Weitzman

HW: If i could ask the question then if theres any objections, I believe the court may rule on it
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Judge. Ill see where this is going

HW {looks through more documents} Mr. Tohme, After the negotiation for AEG started did Mr.
am
Hawk speak with Mr. Phillips or did you speak with Mr. Phillips, and Mr. hawk speak with Ms.
Jorrie

Voth: Objection your honor


M
Judge. (HW asked to put ask another way)

HW. I will your honor


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HW. Did you speak primary to Mr. Philips?

TT. On what?

HW. When the AEG contract was being spoke of?


ae
TT. we were talking all the time not only about the contract

HW. Im sorry
lJa

TT. I mean we were talking all of the time about the tour, but the contract was between the attorney
Kathy Jorrie, Dennis Hawk and Peter and everybody else
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HW. Mr. Tohme isnt it correct that you spoke with Mr. Philips about what you all and Michael
wanted in the agreement, did you and Mr. Phillips discuss some of the things that Mr Jackson
wanted a house and the advance and all that?
so

TT. Yeah, we discussed that about the house and the advance

HW. Isnt it accurate that you and Mr. Phillips would agree on what the budget would be in the
contact and the lawyer would document it?
n.c

TT. No there were many elements Im not that I dont know about, all I know what Michael
wanted, Michael want a house, Michael want advance money. And Michael want help at that time
to pay that Sheik Abdullah. And the content of the contract was done between the attorneys
o

HW. so, if Mr. Phillips said that he negotiated a contract with you and the lawyers and
documented it he would be wrong?
m
TT. I dont know that, we negotiated a deal, I dont know what he is talking about we negotiated
I told him all of what Michael want exactly and what Michaels wishes were and they agreed to it.
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HW. did Mr. Hawks speak to Mr. Phillips to your knowledge?

TT. Im sure he spoke but most of the time the work was done with the Kathie Jorrie and another
attorney
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HW. Shawn Trell

TT. Shawn Trell


M
HW> And the lawyers dealt with the documentation and isnt it accurate you and the lawyers and
Mr. Phillips dealt with, err the wants and needs of AEG and Michael Jackson

TT. I dont understand


ich
Mr. Voth. Okay, your honor, theres a small verification, as I understand that part of the dispute
between the estate and Mr. Tohme is whether Mr. Tohme procured employment on behalf of an
artist without the appropriate license
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Judge. Its okay Mr. Voth

Mr. Voth. Im trying to understand the relevance of this line of questioning


lJa

HW. First of all, this has nothing to do with anything but what part Mr. Tohme did play and nobody
is a, is a debating part of his role in helping Michael Jackson was to negotiate the AEG tour, and
as for what deal they had done in
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Judge.Okay, that question is allowed, go ahead Mr Tohme

TT. As I said, I was discussing with Randy Phillips is the advance, is the house in London where
he was going to live in. All the transportation. What goes on at the concert house and the advances.
so

What Michael personally wants, but the contract itself was negotiated between the attorneys

HW. I understand, erm, was it part of your responsibility to make it clear to randy Phillips, on
behalf of Michael Jackson what the financial demand of Michael was. What the ancillary demands
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was such the house and expenses and things like that, the Doctors was that part of your
responsibility. To make sure AEG included that in their agreement

Mr. Voth. Objection. Compound your honor


o

Judge: over ruled


m

HW. Wasnt that part of your responsibility


TT. It was part of my responsibility as I told you. AEG not only, I told Tim Leiweke, i told Phil
Anschutz that he wants advance money, he wants the house in Las Vegas he wants to buy a house
in Los Angeles he needs a huge house with a statue and everything in London. And we talked
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about the transportation and we talked about private plane and etc. etc. etc.

HW. And erm. didnt you or did you rather instruct the lawyers to make sure that those demands
those needs would be included in the agreement
am
TT. Everybody knew about it

HW. And For the most part did the agreement include what you told AEG about what Michaels
wants
M
TT. I think there were... Some of it was in the agreement the house and, and then he demanded
a movie
ich
HW. Well did you, there was film development ??? for ?? million dollars, right

TT. I think so, I cant remember exactly what I

HW. It was a deal to develop films in the future correct


ae
TT. Right

HW, and then there was, ermm, (could we put exhibit 22J before the witness please mumbling
lJa

with tech guy.. just the front page.))


Do you recognize this document Mr. Tohme mumbles, this was the document between you
and Michael Jackson and this was the production management agreement, for you with Mr.
Jackson, erm in regards to the This Is It tour, correct?
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TT. Correct

HW. And erm, and it specifies that you will be paid a $100,000 per month, and these are the terms,
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did AEG every pay you under the terms of this agreement

TT. No
n.c

HW. Did they ever tell you why?

TT. They said to wait until they a, we start the tour,

HW. And according to the back page, page 3 of the document. Is that your signature on the left?
o

TT. yes
m

HW. And that where it says Michael Jackson, thats Mr. Jacksons signature
TT. Yes
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HW. And Mr. Phillips signature, thats Mr. Phillips signature

TT. Yes
am
HW. Could you go to the??? Deposition.

*** LEFT COURT ROOM EARLY, IN TOO MUCH PAIN***


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