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Static Equipment Group- Facebook

Edition : 1st

Posts Published from 2011 to 2013

Dear Friends,

This group is created to share experience and knowledge in static equipment field in year 2011.
This Ebook is attempt to bring all posts in one binder form.

For ease of reader we have segregated all posts in following categories.
- Design related Posts
- Material related posts
- Fabrication related posts
- Inspection related posts
- Testing related posts

I want to convey my gratitude to all group members for such nice discussions on all above
categorized topics. which has cleared most of the doubts and taught us new lesson.

Please note that the views expressed / exchanged in this group are members personel
views emerged from their relevant experience in this field and here it meant for educational
purposes only, Users / Readers must take their own decisions with respect to applicable
code /standard /contract documents.

Keep sharing. Keep learning.

Thanks.

- Static Equipment Group - Facebook (Administrator)

STATIC EQUIPMENT GROUP - DESIGN POSTS

Page 1 of 390

Hemant Solanki created the group.
Like · · Unfollow Post · July 9, 2011 at 8:06pm
Rahul Shinde
Hi, its good . you created such group. sure it will help.
Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 9, 2011 at 8:26pm

Hemant Solanki
्वातं्य दिनक अवसर पर, मरी लऱखी कुछ पं्ततया :
हमको ककतन column reactor ह और बनान ,
ककतन ही exchanger हमको और सजान,
अभी पऱटना ह ुख ककतन combined stresses का,
ककतन ही anchor bolts हम मजबूत बनान ,
नया खन
ू ह नयीउमंगं, अब ह नयी जवानी,
हम दह्ि्
ु तानी.

Hemant Solanki
As today is Vijayadashami.. Lets worship of these codes as it is source of our knowledge...
Happy Vijayadashami..

Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 24, 2012 at 1:20pm
Swapnil Deshmukh, Sujay Marwah, Amit Mohanty and 12 others like this.

Static Equipment Group - Facebook

Page 2 of 390

Purav Desai
On behalf of Group, I would like to thanks all group members for their valuable
participation in the group activity in the year 2012.

Static Equipment Group 2012 Rewind;

- Most members have joined the group.
- Fantastic participation by all members at an average 1 post per day.
- Many Live problems were discussed and concluded.
- All members were made aware with new developments in Code, new technology articles,
equipment specific articles.

I wish very happy and prosperous new year to all group members and request to utilize
this platform to its fullest.
Like · · Follow Post · Share · January 1 at 6:09am near Seoul, South Korea
Rohitash Singh Panwar, Krunal Solanky, Mrudang Mehta and 3 others like this.

Hemant Solanki
Wishing you all Happy New Year 2013.
2012 was full sharing year I can say. As explained by Purav Desai on his earlier post we
have discussed many new things in this forum.
This group has gained well known name within Indian counsaltancies (and probably
abroad consultancies) due to efforts of active members in this group.
As we all knows that 2013 is a year of code changes for ASME codes. So definitely within
this year we will come to know many more learning points as per ASME 2013 codes.
I want to request all of members here in this group to participate actively to enrich group
knowledge sharing.
Keep Learning. Keep Sharing.

Regards,
Hemant Solanki

Static Equipment Group - Facebook

Page 3 of 390

Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 1 at 11:38am
Mukesh K Prajapati, Sachin Pawar, Salman Hussain and 11 others like this.

Ramesh Tiwari Hemant and Purav, I am very proud of this group. Keep up the good work......January
4 at 11:25am · Like

Purav Desai Thanks Mr. Ramesh Tiwari, for encouraging words....January 4 at 2:33pm · Like

Madhusudhan Shetty Wishing everybody a very happy new year 2013, with more & more problems
and reviews....January 15 at 10:51pm · Like

Mohamed Hussein
dear freind
What is the scope work of static equipment department?
Plz answer
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 7, 2012 at 5:24pm via mobile
Hemant Solanki Static equipment is the one where there is no relative moving parts. In broad scope
we are designing unfired static equipment where there will be no direct firing inside equipment take
place just like in furnace or some of the boiler.
As per ASME our scope ends at the flange face of the nozzles which are attached to the equipment. For
detail scope refer U-2 requirements in ASME code where scope demarcation is cleared.
ASME states design scope. however as far as interfacing is concerned static equipment engineer should
have communication with all the concerned department so that any issues regarding fouling or clashing
or any other requirements from different departments shall be duly taken care in design and
engineering of equipment.February 7, 2012 at 6:53pm · Like

Static Equipment Group - Facebook

Page 4 of 390

Hemant Solanki
This diagram may be useful for people who are not familiar with petroleum refining:

Static Equipment Group - Facebook

Facebook .6(c). Page 5 of 390 Hemant Solanki ASME Sec-VIII Div. Static Equipment Group . 3.1 Quick Reference Purav Desai Can anyone help me with the correct interpretation of UOP specifications no 3-11-5 cl.

220 BHN) then Lip type is not necessary. Its small amount is also injurious so 100% radiography with lip type construction is preferable because with lip type only we will get butt weld at nozzle to shell junction & on butt weld we can easily carry out radiography. it is correct that on lip area thickness will be slightly higher than connecting shell as it is forged material but it will not affect more to reinforcement calculation. 2011 at 11:20am via mobile Hemant Solanki clause is "Either an integrally reinforced nozzle or balanced integral reinforcement in both the nozzle neck and vessel is required for hydrogen service and is preferred for all services. 2011 at 7:20pm · Like Hemant Solanki Can anybody share their views on Pressure Thrust consideration in local load analysis. Pvelite Code Calc does the same thing when you click pressure thrust tab. There is a separate wrc 368 for it. 2011 at 1:06am · Like Static Equipment Group .September 7. 2011 at 7:29pm · Like Manish Shukla What I interpret from the clause is as under: 1. If by any means we are able to control hardness than no need to perform PWHT at that weld junction.September 8. client feels that the hardness would/may/might occur @ weld junction. If any body have different view please share. But Hydrogen service is lethal in nature. client has written this clause. Regarding your 1st point I have doubt that Area A1 according to UG-37 is the area available under shell section. Because there is Hydrogen Service. If the vendor is OK and takes the guarantee of hardness (after PWHT) would be under allowable limit (i. 2.e. i would like to share my view: when there is sudden change in flow direction nearby nozzle. Page 6 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 23. we generally go for smooth transitions (LR elbows) and that eliminates the thrust at junction. Still I am not clear. Your second point is correct. it causes thrust (force)of the amount internal pressure * nozzle c/s at the junction. which is difficult in other types. any how we are taking its advantage in reinforcement calculation. Balanced Integral Reinforced Nozzle means Lip type only. 2011 at 7:46pm Purav Desai Hi. To be on safer side.August 27. And we have to consider Area A1 (which resides in the Lip). October 7. But coming to our industry.What I understand from above clause is that balanced integral reinforcement is lip type forged nozzle as in hydrogen service 100% radiography requirement persist so only with lip type construction we can able to achieve it. When we should consider it in local load analysis?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 4.Facebook . 2011 at 7:08pm · Like Hemant Solanki Manish.

Avinash Araj There are 2 types of expansion bellows used in Exchangers: Thin type and Thick type(FLange and flued). 2011 at 3:12pm Hemant Solanki Purav. According to ASME. think bellows are used mostly in pipes. to ur answer to types of bellows. But as per UG-37 you can design it's reinforcement..... November 11.and then the next publication will be the 2013 Edition. the boiler code will then bepublished on a two-year cycle... . as such. Manish Shukla Question) Does anybody know how to design "Tangential Rectangular Nozzle on Cylindrical Shell"? November 8.... so that the thickness is less.October 30. thin bellows.. This will alsobe the last addenda issued for the boiler code.. as rightly pointed can be design as per TEMA.steps have been taken to ensure that the annualized costto purchasers of the new two-year editions will notexceed the annualized cost when published on a threeyear cycle. 2011 at 2:55am · Like Hemant Solanki Dear.issue Jan-2011) On November 16..Facebook .. 2009.. the ASME Standards and Certification Board of Directors voted to eliminate the addenda service for the ASME Boiler and Pressure VesselCode. 2011 at 7:24pm · Like Hemant Solanki First choice would be TEMA thick bellow which is cheap & conventional but very high shell side & tube side temperature difference results in more number of convolutes which is difficult to design & practically difficult to fabricate in such cases thin bellows are considered. Is there any criteria for selecting type of bellows from above? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 26.. The implementation of this new two-year publicationcycle will take place over the next three years with thepublishing of the 2010 Edition on July 2010 as normal... you have to find out it's hypotenuse length which is maximum opening length for rectangular openings and consider it as opening dia 'd' in UG-37 formulas. it was yetundecided whether the publication cycle would remain athree year cycle or something different. With the2013 Edition and beyond..November 12. I do not know about how to design its neck thickness. 2011 at 7:24pm · Like Mrudang Mehta hi. Purav Desai. while thick bellow. are made of exotic material like Inconel..Courtesy : Mr. there is no selection criteria.The addenda that will be issued in July 2011 will be acomplete reprinting of all the boiler code sections utilizing ASME's new XML publishing system. can you please revert on above query. 2011 at 8:55pm · Like Static Equipment Group . and also in the explansion joint on the nozzle of single pass floating type HX. and are of same MOC as the shell of HX. The decision wasmade to reduce the publication cycle to two years sincemany people felt that anything longer than that would betoo long a delay in getting important technical revisionspublished. At the time this decision was made. they are designed per EJMA. Page 7 of 390 Hemant Solanki ASME SUSPENDS ADDENDA SERVICE AND MODIFIES PUBLICATION CYCLE : (As per HSB news letter.An addenda will be issued for this edition in July 2011.

However if this available thickness after undercut is less than standard flange thickness than it may violate pressure. Static Equipment Group . but many client not allows this and ask for the calculation as per ap.no loads shall be absorbded becoz of flexibilty of nozzle shell. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 19. be used at the pressure-temperature ratings in the respective standards. 2011 at 7:55pm via mobile Ankur Gupta it means the loads coming on nozzle face (such as piping loads)shall be 100% transferrred to nozle to shell junction. 2011 at 7:18pm Rajendra Sharma likes this. 2. but after undercut the available thickness is same as standard flange thickness. 2011 at 9:01pm · Like Hemant Solanki May a raised face blind flange confirming to a flange standard referenced in UG-34 (c) (1) and having a corrosion resistant overlay welded to its interior face in such a manner that the final dimensions of the base material comply with the respective standard. Rajendra Sharma In this case there should not be any undercut which means there should not any reduction in thickness of flange for overlay cladding however Shell alows this under cut as per standard drawing.. 2011 at 9:00pm · Like Mrudang Mehta agree to both above replies. 2011 at 7:09pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki In above query undercut is there. 2011 at 1:51pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta agress November 12. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 16. they should treat nozzle shell as rigid.Facebook . September 17.. without additional design calculations ? Views on above query is highly appreciable. 2011 at 11:13pm · Like Purav Desai to add further when piping stress engineer does the analysis. November 12. So in that case calculation is not required. September 16.. November 26.temperature rating for which this flange is meant that's why calculation is required. Page 8 of 390 Rajendra Sharma Friends please explain what is the interpretation of 'nozzle shell flexibility shall not be taken into account' is it related to WRC107 &297 or Regarding piping assumption.

1 of ASME STS-1 2006 December 9. November 30. it is same as explained by Hemant. Now you can increase skirt thickness to maximum upto adjacent shell thickness after that if you again want to increase skirt thickness then you have to first increase that adjacent shell thickness. If above method do not work then flare the skirt such that deflection get within limit.. 2011 at 1:24am · Like · 1 Manish Shukla In the most extreme case. Guiding shoe is provided at certain height of column to limit the deflection. November 27. First of all increase skirt thickness such that the deflection get in limit. 2011 at 11:14am · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta dear. which results into increase in stress at shell to skirt junction.. Static Equipment Group . 2011 at 2:21pm · Like Hemant Solanki Rajendra.. Flaring of skirt will increase the BCD so that we can increase the number of bolts. they have explained the procedure. refer 5. October 9. add Helical Strakes as is used in tall stacks. If skirt thickness is more and we try to match it with small thick shell outer diameter or mean diameter then there will be offset of thickness between shell and skirt thickness which will creat eccentricity and whatever circumferential and longitudinal forces will come it will creat more stress at skirt to shell junction due to this eccentricity. You can flare the skirt to maximum 7°. and to increase shell thickness we have to first increase thickness of connecting shell. Page 9 of 390 But as Rajendra has said above it also depends on client. November 27.Facebook .. in order to avoid this situation we limit skirt thickness max upto connecting shell thickness. 2011 at 10:13am · Like · 1 Rajendra Sharma yes . 2011 at 7:23pm · Like Purav Desai What are the best possible ways to control deflection of self supporting column? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 9..in our ongoing project client has clearly mentioned that in case of undercut in the flange we have to submit the calculation forall the flanges. 2011 at 8:37am · Like Hemant Solanki Because we always try to match OD or mean diameter of shell and skirt. 1.though the thickness in aceptable limit of atandard flange. just go through the Design Basis of EIL.3. guided structure is preferred. 2.. 3. For more info. Flaring of skirt is also useful if diameter is less & due to which we have limited BCD to occupy number of bolts. But client may think that if we change any of the dimension of standard flange than that flange will be not applicable to that pressure-temperature rating. October 10. If client asks to perform the same than it is required. 2011 at 10:56am Hemant Solanki If you go through any of the PMC specifications (EIL or Toyo) they had given following solution. if we are providing thickness after undercut equal to standard flange thickness than i think it is not required to submit calculation... Some time in case of less diameter & more height columns. if u want i can forward u the same.

Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 17. Prabhu Hemant Solanki Sir. 2011 at 5:36pm · Like Vishal Patil 1> Check with civil for guide support if you have a structure around column.com Regards.85 because as per ASME Sec-IID Table 1.5. 2011 at 10:25am · Like Vishal Patil There some options:- December 12. Please put in all efforts to confim this. 2> Gradually increase the thickness of column from bottom to top. If you have conical section in between increase thickness of first shell above cone. Speak to me on this issue when possible. December 12. Now we can use 1-10 rules in lieu of UG37 for reinforcement calculation under internal pressure. 2011 at 6:37pm · Like Hemant Solanki Came to know very good learning today. the weld strength requirements of UG-41 shall be satisfied by U-2(g). Hemant Solanki According to code When these rules are used. I have tried to find out what is 0.85*S/3. Likewise. this is the simplest way to control deflection if you have structure. 2011 at 5:43pm · Like Purav Desai hi group members. I have oldest edition upto 2001 but there also the above basis is mentioned. one has to try lots of iteration before finding the optimized solution. But check deflection of structure too. December 12.85 as joint Static Equipment Group . Ramesh N.Facebook . Does it call for FEA ? December 17. Ramesh Prabhu Dear Hemant. I have also tried to search in interpretations but there is also no such query is raised. My professional email id is rameshnp1453@gmail.85 in above basis. the requirements UG-40 (Limits of reinforcement) and UG-42 (Multiple opening reinforcement) are not applicable. But analysis can not be done by normal software. come to know very good point in 2010 edition of ASME code. Whenever we use welded pipes in ASME formula do not put joint efficiency E=0. This is iterative section of design. increasing the thickness of skirt is not enough.85 factor is nothing but considering welded pipe with spot radiography. where this 0. This is really helpful and save lot of material. I have interpreted it as joint efficiency as it is written welded pipe & with taking 0. Page 10 of 390 December 10. 2011 at 5:41pm · Like Vishal Patil And for wind deflection you can use helical strakes at 1/3 height of column at top. Please write to ASME Board if necessary. 2011 at 5:34pm via mobile Manish Shukla likes this.100 where basis for allowable stress is given for welded pipe ASME has given allowable stress as 0.

Another good point is rigidity shall be calculated only for those flanges which are connected to cylinder/pipe. Hence it can be ignored.The code allowable stress values for welded pipe or tubes are 85% of the values for the seamless counterparts." I want to know how rigidity can be ignored for flange directly welded to dished covers (with SF) ? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 24. Unlike UL or CSA which require independent laboratory testing. So whatever structures comes under this 60 KM should be designed accordingly to withstand cyclonic wind pressure. 2011 at 9:31pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Addendum-3 of IS-875 has been released. it's effect would be seen up to 60 KM from coastal area. Still I am searching for its basis. i understand that straight face is normally of 50 mm and hence will results in minimum flange rotation. This again reveal that 0. According to this code wherever coastal area is under cyclonic zone. First of all one basic point is flange flange must be rigid enough to minimise its rotation due to attached cylinder during operation and test condition. Now for your doubt. Hemant Solanki Today I have gone through Casti guide book of Section VIII-Div. 2011 at 7:16pm Purav Desai Dear hemant. "Flange rigidity can also be considered for all flange types except Blind. As we know now a days coastal areas are likely have threat of cyclones so this new phenomenon is introduced in IS-875. 2012 at 11:11am Hemant Solanki CE Marking CE is an acronym for the French phrase "Conformite Europeene" and is similar to the UL or CSA marks of North America.Facebook . December 24. Hemant Solanki I came across quote as mentioned below.1 where it is written that the allowable stress values in Section II for welded pipe or tubes have been adjusted downward because of the weld.85 factor is nothing but considering welded pipe with spot radiography. Page 11 of 390 efficiency ASME formula thickness which we will achieve will be higher. Static Equipment Group . They have introduced some terms to take in account cyclonic wind pressure. the CE mark can be applied by the manufacturer through a "self certifying" procedure that verify that products are designed to the appropriate standards. Reverse. In this new addendum IS has introduced cyclonic wind pressure to account effects of cyclones on structures. If it does not get clear we can raise its interpretation request to ASME. and flange to dished covers. If you have information on this issue please share. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 28. For detailed information we have to go through this latest code in detail.

If the manufacturer (or his authorized representative) is not based within the EU.. 2012 at 6:57pm · Like Rahul Valand thanks hemant…. this line is a line where knuckle to crown portion get separated.. prohibited from sale or even withdrawn from the market.5 or H/3. the importer is responsible for the product in Europe. In this code case there is one figure where unsupported length L is shown.Facebook ..1???? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 7.net/vb/threads/52519-CE-Marking#ixzz1l8lVJJCq Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 1. the European common market. 2012 at 10:04am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . If a product is not in compliance with the directives.egpet.. 1) Be aware that this is not always true. as per UG 28 .why not H/2. or within. The CE mark states that the manufacturer complies the product to be within applicable EU directives. Note! The CE Marking is not a safety mark and must not be confused with a certificate. On dish end area they showed one line which they call as bulkhead line and that line is represented at h/3 distance from TL. What I understand is. I have one basic questn. you can't sell your products & issue the CE certificate) if no notified body has approved your design/quality/manufacturing documents. Before manufacturers and exporters can CE-mark their products and legally sell them to. Page 12 of 390 The European Union has issued 24 directives related to the CE mark. For example the pressure equipment directive # 97/23/CE requires a 3rd party ("notified body") for some products that have specific pressure & dimensional characteristics (that are specified in the directive). so you are not allowed to apply the CE mark (i.pls help me out.February 10. CE marking will never be granted by a third party test house or a certification body. 2012 at 3:19pm via mobile Hemant Solanki For this query I gone through Code case-2286.why we are coonsidering H/3 of head depth as unstiffened length of cylinder.1) The manufacturer is responsible for non-compliance and liable for any damage caused by the product.. Read more: http://www. 2012 at 6:57pm Rahul Valand dear frnd. It depends entirely on which European Directive the CE-marked product has to comply with. it may be restricted. Still I have not find out the exact reason why the 1/3 of h is considered. Knuckle portion will get more pressure from its side however crown portion will get more portion from top side of head. I will let you know if I come across any other information regarding this……February 9. Due to this effect knuckle portion is considered as same behaviour as that of attached shell and that's why while calculating unsupported length available on shell we consider knuckle portion also under it and that's why unsupported length extends up to h/3. Actually if we assume behaviour of knuckle and crown in external pressure it will be different..e.. they must be in compliance with the applicable CE Marking Directive...

Recycle gas mixes with the fresh feed enters thru nozzle M1/M2 (N1/N2) and make a combined cold fluid inlet. this recycle gas is nothing but the hydrocarbon rich gas sent back by recyle gas compressor. Refer to saunders book for some basic information. Page 13 of 390 Purav Desai Hi Members... nice reply.. Purav Desai Dear Singh. 2012 at 10:32am Chetan Patel pb....February 17.. 2012 at 12:15pm · Like · 1 Rohitash Singh Panwar Hi everone.. It has many information regarding packinox. We are checking the gasketed joint of flange using temporary Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 10:40am · Like Mrudang Mehta Puravbhai. Do anyone have article or any other information on packinox heat exchanger.3 x MAP will never occur when equipment is in operation (as MAP is new & cold condition)...please guide me.... In plt .. February 19.Facebook ...... .. February 18... As per me no need to check nozzle flange rating for hydro test condition because this 1.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 18.3 times MAP.. February 18... 2012 at 3:43pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I have read that sirji. i have handed over to you when i left.. February 19. We have one vessel where nozzle flange rating is 600# and hydrotest pressure is1. What will happen if we insulate Plate Heat Exchanger? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 17.. 2012 at 10:18am nearBaroda. 2012 at 7:02am · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear friends I have one query regarding checking of nozzle flange rating during hydrotest.is my understanding is correct.. 2012 at 8:08pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Yes u are right but the other purpose of this recycle gas is.so whether we have to check the flange rating for hyfrotest condition also.or no need to check????? Please suggest...bus thoda doubt hai.. but one should provide personal protection to this type of exchanger…. Gujarat Purav Desai Are bhai refer to the papers/datasheets/file..it is to just keep the bundle in compression. no need of ins.. Exch as in case of this heat loss is tertiary ( fluid to gasket to plate to air) which is very less. February 24.urgent. 2012 at 10:37am · Like Purav Desai and again this heated feed will go to heater & cycle goes on.. Hydro test is temporary.so that bundle will not buckle.. taame to process engineer thai gaya ne.that the recycle gas which is filled in pressure vessel is not play any role in heat transfer.....

2012 at 6:02pm Avinash Araj very good observation. It is required to check flange rating for MAWP but not for hydro test case 1.000 psi (500 MPa) shall be designed using a value of S equal to 20. Page 14 of 390 blind. Hemant Solanki Yes Mr. March 3. I dont remember the code case number. actual piping is not attached.g. 1 section ug -32 (e) for torispherical head with ts/L>= 0.. Nikam is right.3xMAP. IID. this is because of large number of failures related to these type of heads. Please correct me if something is missing. 2012 at 4:39pm · Like Hemant Nikam Refer ansi b 16. for standard flange hydrotest is carried out at 1. if according to your design pressure and temperature 150# flange is selected than that flange is already checked for 1. chetan.. I think code has included this requirement only in the case of torispherical heads. totally agree. in Div. March 5. 2012 at 8:47pm · Like Mrudang Mehta See the concept is just to keep minimum thickness of torispherical head to be a value not less a certain value even though u use a higher grade material mjmehta81: Stress in the knuckle radius is concern and so that thickness of knuckle does not go very Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 8:46pm · Like Avinash Araj This is just an additional safety factor only in the case of toriheads March 19. March 19. There is also a code case related to this.. March 2..5 times of design pr. March 19. As per 16.Facebook . 2012 at 8:44pm · Like Avinash Araj I think code is limiting the allowable stress so that these type dont deform above certain limit specified..5 standard all standard flanges are designed to withstand 1.5 times the rating pressure irrespective of design pressure for which they are selected. 2012 at 8:47pm · Like · 1 Chetan Patel Dear friends.5X 150# pressure.this conditions normally occure when hydrtest required as per UG-99 (C) and with low flange rating.000 psi (150 MPa) at room temperature and reduced in proportion to the reduction in maximum allowable stress values at temperature for the material " .5 cl. Now my concern is here ASME is limiting us to use allowable stress as 20000 PSI eventhough it is higher as per Sec. Is there any dishend forming limitation for dishend with higher tensile strength ? or is there any limitation of this equation for higher allowable stress ? Please share your knowledge Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 19.0002 it is written that " Torispherical heads made of materials having a specified minimum tensile strength exceeding 70. 2012 at 5:44pm · Like · 2 Krishna Desai Dear Hemant. e..

the thickness shall be near to CS Gr. or right angle gears. Why use an air-cooled heat exchanger? Air-cooled heat exchangers are generally used where a process system generates heat which must be removed. Most of the heat must be dissipated somehow. the air blows upwards through a horizontal tube bundle. What standards are used for Air-Cooled Exchangers? First. 2012 at 7:30am · Like · 1 Air-cooled heat exchangers. This is a mixture of fact and opinion.net Hemant Solanki. The whole assembly is usually mounted on legs or a piperack. The space between the fan(s) and the tube bundle is enclosed by a plenum chamber.. March 20. which has become imbalanced for some reason. How are they constructed? Typically. The fan drive assembly is supported by a steel mechanical drive support system. The fans can be either forced or induced draft. Usually. They are usually used when the outlet temperature is more than about 20 deg. Vijay Chaudhary and Deepak Garg in Static Equipment Group (Files) · Edit Doc ·Delete Air-cooled heat exchangers Purpose The purpose of this article is to provide some general information on air-cooled heat exchangers and answer some of the commonly heard questions. It is a sort of binding where for even going to higher grade material. F above the maximum expected ambient air temperature. The fans are usually driven be electric motors through some type of speed reducer. The engine components must be cooled to keep them from overheating due to friction and the combustion process. since they are pressure vessels. Page 15 of 390 low. but for which there is no local use. For refinery and petrochemical services most customers include API 661 (Air-Cooled Heat Exchangers for General Refinery Service) in their specifications. which directs the air. an air-cooled exchanger for process use consists of a finned-tube bundle with rectangular box headers on both ends of the tubes. The speed reducers are usually V-belts.egpet. depending on whether the air is pushed or pulled through the tube bundle.Facebook .Source. A good example is the radiator in your car. I have attempted to show it by use of Italics. One or more fans provide cooling air. They usually include a vibration switch on each fan to automatically shut down a fan. The water/glycol coolant mixture carries the excess heat away. Air-cooled heat exchangers (often simply called air-coolers) do not require any cooling water from a cooling tower. 70 MOC. Wherever the opinion is obvious to me. They can be used with closer approach temperatures. but often become expensive compared to a combination of a cooling tower and a water-cooled exchanger. almost all air coolers are built to Sec VIII of the ASME Code. A small amount of the excess heat may be used by the car's radiator to heat the interior. This API specification is very good since it includes all the necessary information to properly specify a cooler and provides for a high level of Static Equipment Group . HTD drives. One of the simplest ways is to use the ambient air.

In some applications customers often prefer extruded fins. The cost of this extra turbulence is increased static pressure for the fan(s) to overcome. which has rollers. This means that there is a shoulder plug opposite each tube. These modifications usually involve some kind of wrinkles or cuts in the fins to enhance air turbulence. Some manufacturers make some rather startling claims for their "special" finned tubes. and external loads on the cooler. Some of the better manufacturers also use cast zinc bands at the tube supports. which allows access for inspection and cleaning of individual tubes. but most of the process coolers have tubes. 1. and no crevices to allow corrosion to start on the tube OD. or more exotic alloys. The plugholes are used in the manufacturing process for accesses to roller expand the tubes into the headers. They can also be used to plug a leaking tube.Facebook . maintenance walkways and platforms. The most common type of fin is the helical wrapped. A vast majority of the headers are of the plug type. Some manufacturers sometimes use smaller tubes. controls.0". The minimum tube wall thickness varies with the material. These claims are sometimes just too fantastic to be considered seriously. and then rolls the upset metal from the tube back against the fin to lock it into place. We believe this to be untrue. This usually means applications where fouling is a potential problem and the tube bundle may require occasional internal cleaning. They are made by a process. Extruded fins are often used in coastal locations or on offshore platforms for this reason. these have a removable plate on the backside of the header opposite Static Equipment Group . As the name implies. then passing the tube through a machine. such as carbon steel.5" OD. most customers prefer either embedded or extruded fins. The minimum preferred outside diameter is one inch. For higher process temperatures. F. Page 16 of 390 minimum quality in the design and fabrication of the cooler. The fins are almost always of aluminum material. Extruded fins are made by putting an aluminum sleeve (sometimes called a muff) over the tube. stainless steel. The end result is a fin. which squish the aluminum out to form fins.25". These include such items as galvanizing versus painting. The tube wall must be thicker with embedded fins because of the groove. wraps the fin into the groove. How are headers constructed? Almost all headers on air-cooled exchangers are welded rectangular boxes. The following details refer mostly to the API specifications. which are 1. The other common type of header is the cover plate or bonnet type. What are headers? Headers are the boxes at the ends of the tubes. The process is similar to a thread-rolling machine. Admiralty brass. L-footed type. These are used where the process temperatures are below about 350 deg. which has extremely good contact with the tube. The embedded fins have the highest temperature capabilities. The API specification calls for cast zinc bands at the ends of the tubes to prevent the fins from unwrapping. types of headers. These are usually used in low- pressure applications (say below 150 PSIG) where complete tube access is desired. or 1. In some cases the design pressure and design temperature of the exchanger govern the minimum thickness. In the back it has a very good checklist where a customer can decide exactly what type of construction is needed and what options are important. which distribute the fluid from the piping to the tubes. which cuts a helical groove in the OD of the tube. What kinds of finned tubes are used? The tubes can be of virtually any material available.

Painted structures require touch-up after installation and they often rust anyway. but opposite in construction. such as titanium. Bonnet headers are sometimes used where the corrosion potential of the process fluid is very high and the tubesheet material is some kind of expensive exotic alloy. If the process fluid is very hot. Often the painted units are more expensive. The tube bundle is mounted on top of the plenum. A common problem with forced draft coolers is accidental warm air recirculation. This could cause problems with some fans or fan pitch actuators if the fan is exposed to very hot exhaust air. The actual air coming from a fan does not distribute itself evenly at first.15&16 offer some guidelines for this. The whole header or bonnet bolts to the tubesheet and comes off. but sometimes more exotic alloys are used for corrosion resistance. However. causing the hot air to be pulled over the side or end of the bay. This happens when the hot exhaust air is pulled back in to the fans. The fan shaft is short. This is for a very good reason. Why are some coolers forced draft and some induced draft? Which is better? It depends. (API 661 paragraph 4. and fan coverage: The API specification includes a number of paragraphs about fan coverage and dispersion angle.) However. This tends to minimize the probability of accidental air recirculation. the cooling air is hot at the outlet. Plenums. The majority of air-cooled exchangers are of forced draft construction. Painted or Galvanized? This is usually a matter of customer preference. as in an induced draft design. We recommend galvanized units wherever possible.3. For this same reason. induced draft units have some advantages too. so it can be easily removed and replaced. A bonnet header is similar. Page 17 of 390 the tubes. The Static Equipment Group . dispersion angle. There seems to be a trend toward more galvanized structures because they require virtually no maintenance. there should never be a small space between the bays of a bank of forced-draft cooler. they are a better choice in such cases. a low-pressure area is created around the fan.2. Also an induced draft plenum does not have to support the tube bundle so some weight can often be saved in this area. the costs are roughly the same if a multiple coat paint system is specified.Facebook . and a lower velocity into the face of the tube bundle below. The cover plate is attached to the header by a set of studs or through-bolts to a flange around the perimeter of the header. Forced draft units require slightly less horsepower since the fan are moving a lower volume of air at the inlet than they would at the outlet. Since forced draft coolers do not have the fans exposed to hot exhaust air. Induced draft cooler have a high exhaust air velocity through the top-mounted fan. Since a forced draft cooler has a low air velocity at the exhaust from the bundle and a high velocity through the fan. Forced draft units are easier to manufacture and to maintain. Headers are usually constructed of carbon steel or stainless steel. The customer usually makes the selection of materials. since it does not have to extent from the drive unit through the tube bundle and plenum to the fan.

The API minimum is 40% with a 45-degree maximum dispersion angle from the fan ring to the middle of the tube bundle at the middle of the sides or the middle of the ends of each fan chamber. What kinds of controls are used? As one might expect the best kind of control scheme depends on the application.angle of ladder. Does the process require a very tight control on the process outlet temperature. 3.as you may observe in buildings one breakup is between one floor. However. even though they don't build them this way. as the plenum becomes deeper. First. The fan coverage is the ratio of the fan area to the bundle face area. but in no particular order. 2. this localized effect is diminished as the air becomes more evenly distributed. (See Figure 6 on Page 14 of API 661for a sketch of this.) A few manufacturers actually improve on this idea one step more. Variable-frequency fan drives. 5. they enhance the distribution of the air. Rounded and eased rings offer two advantages compared to the conventional fan rings. 1. March 24. then the better the fan coverage will be. In tall tanks spiral may be use to avoid vortex shedding due to wind. Manually operated louvers. 2012 at 3:43pm Umesh Katare likes this. More fan coverage or a lower dispersion angle can improve the air distribution. 4. thanx for sharing the knowledge…. 2012 at 7:16am via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam Tanks height is more than 10 mtr it is difficult to go up by using straight staircase. or is it better to allow the process temperature to go down with the ambient air temperature? Is there a possibility of freezing the process? Is there a pour-point problem? Is the cost of operating the fan motors a significant factor? The following is a list of some of the commonly used control devices for air coolers. some cooler manufacturers base their fan designs on the use of rounded and eased rings. it is often very different around the fan blade tip as opposed to the center of the fan or the corner of the bundle. When designing their coolers. If you measure the airflow across the face of a tube bundle. Like · Unfollow Post · Report · January 13. 2012 at 9:37pm via mobile · Like Arpita Shah Why tank staircase is spiral instead of straight? Satvik Patel 1. Page 18 of 390 most airflow is seen around the fan tip area.Facebook . Pneumatically actuated automatic variable-pitch fans. slightly reducing the fan brake horsepower. All of the heat transfer programs assume that the air is distributed perfectly evenly.March 21. Steam coils.staircase is very Static Equipment Group . Secondly. 6. they reduce the air pressure drop through the fan ring. The higher this ratio is. 2. Spiral staircase is more comfertable to climb than straight. Electrically or pneumatically operated louvers. Arpita Shah Realy very intresting. by using rounded and eased fan rings. Warm-air recirculation systems for freezing/pour point control in cold climates.

it is always distributed circumferential. at shell side.foundations comes infront of structure. March 25.. 2012 at 1:24pm · Like Chetan Patel in case of flange its convenience to operate spanner with straddle bolting.. EE of asme for half pipe jackets are given only for two condition. 2012 at 10:55am · Like Static Equipment Group . Satvik Patel it is international practice in piping to make similar everywhere March 23. inside shel or head. Also maintenance point of view to handle straddle bolts are easy as compared to bolts which are in line with axis. of shell sustain that pr..March 28. because with straddle bolts you will get more space to move ratchet or spanner. 2012 at 10:52am · Like Satvik Patel And Vessel inside nagative pressure acts as external pressure. and in case of anchor bolt to avoide operator interface with access path as access way are provided at 0°. 2012 at 8:26pm via mobile · Like · 4 Hemant Nikam This is the standard practice because of physical Tighenting of bolts when the piping flanges. inside the half pipe jacket. March 22. which is very difficult and clumsy work..March 28. Hemant Solanki Straddle the bolt holes are internationally accepted procedure which are following by every consultancies world wide. thickness is very low.what can be possible reason. so we can add that pressure in Internal design pressure of Half pipe PV-Elite also does in same way…. 2012 at 6:04pm · Like · 1 Arpita Shah the rules in app. of column with respect to Tank.? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 28.. there is positive pr. where it is mentioned kindly refer it for more detail….hence to avoid stress concentration in same orientation.and in order to avoid that you should always indicate in which orientation your flange bolt holes comes. Height is not a criteria for selecting the spiral or straight.180° & 270°. EE (EE-2) refers to UG-21in defination of P.i do nt know much about this.Facebook . but if we apply negative pr. This is decided so that there will be no mismatch between vessel nozzle flange and connecting piping flange bolt holes. Mihir Jha Long Columns have the straight ladder and platform only because we can't provide spiral stairway due to small dia..wall. 2. & TO AVOID STRESS DUE 2 GRAVITY ON SINGLE BOLT. if this procedure is not followed then there is always chance of mismatch between mating flanges bolt holes. March 22. 2012 at 6:50pm · Like Mitul Patel Why we straddle bolt holes from the centre line in flange and foundation. March 25. March 27. 2012 at 7:54pm · Like Ruby Sahu also it is somehow related to reaction forces and moments.THIS WOULD BE OBSERVED IF THE BOLTS R AT D LOWEST POINT THAT IS AT THE VERTICAL AXIS. 1.if any body has any idea then pls share. 2012 at 8:43am via mobile Satvik Patel In app. 2012 at 8:30am · Like Manoj Nandwalkar in tank case. there is positive pr.. Page 19 of 390 imporatant to walk/go up person may be tired while going up and for tanks to maintain the angle as 30 degree more space along the one side of tank is required. 2012 at 8:10pm · Like Vuppala Gopinath TO AVOID CORROSION OF BOLT DUE TO LEAKAGE. how to find out the required thk.THAT IS 2 DIVIDE D STRESS IN 2 BOLTS INSTEAD OF 1 BOLT March 22.90°.

Before adding the internal pressure of half pipe in external pressure of vessel this must be addressed otherwise will cause bulky design.e.this we used in shell and tube heat exchangers.it definataly affects flange design. One can try the self-reinfoced nozzle rather than changing the shell thickness if the dia of shell in big.1> In which situation the vessel is going to encounter the full vacuum (ext pressure).you can provide insert plate of higher thickness than the main shell refer code.pdf.pad in jacketed vessel ? Satvik Patel yes..Jacket space should be maintained as per datasheet and also check code requirement. March 22.. My opinion is.. Page 20 of 390 Arpita Shah I m taking about at shell side negative pr….krrao. 2) no need to consider machining allowance…... steam out condition then there are rare chances that the half pipe containing the positive pressure.. You can use shell band .March 28. And one thing do not increase overall shell course thickness if diameter is larger than 1 mtr.f.. Which is reducing the chances of the bucking of vessel.March 28.if smaller dia. 2012 at 8:30pm · Like Arpita Shah can we increase the shell thickness to avoid r.Use insert plate . Samadhan Suresh Dahale Mr. 2012 at 7:55am via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam Yes you have to maintain the area required .1)m &y factor is to be consider as per gasket used for hydrotest purpose. One can use insert plate without taking the limpet coil in that region.Nikam is correct.increase in shell thk. but you need to check with process... (1) What values of m & Y shall be considered in design? (2) Do we need to consider future machining allowance for flange? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 29. 2012 at 8:30pm · Like Vishal Patil Preferably check PD 5500 and EN 13445 will get idea of this…March 28. Generally process accepts this local pocket. 2012 at 8:59am Satvik Patel I think you are talking about lip seal gasket. then one can take this approach of addition of pressure. shell side nagative pressure means you have external pressure on shell and that have to be added in design pressure of half pipe…March 28. increases available area. if the process can define that the external pressure occurs only in maintenance time i. When using “Weld ring gasket with auxiliary gasket” for girth/body flange. check linkhttp://www. because there is another aspect that actually limpet coil (half pipe) is indirectly adding the moment of inertia of you shell which is having considerably higher than single MI of the shell. this might be economical rather than changing the shell thickness.March 22. March 28. 2012 at 8:53pm · Like Purav Desai Hi Friends.com/images/Chapter_51_pp285-308_KRs_Notations_per_NASH_UPDATES_of_3- 26-08. 2>If the vacuum is operating condition.Facebook . 2012 at 3:13pm via mobile · Like Satvik Patel that is same.. 2012 at 8:45am · Like Vishal Patil The weld joint of the limpet coil at the change in thickness region shall be checked with fabrication group. take this issue with your seniors. 2012 at 4:25pm via mobile · Like Vishal Patil There are two different aspects to this:. 2012 at 9:06am · Like Static Equipment Group .March 29.

.. Appendix Y :. April 7. 2012 at 9:11am · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Did anyone deal with fixed tubesheet exchanger with two expansion bellow? Rahul Valand Two expansion below or two convolution??? April 3. Static Equipment Group .March 30. 2012 at 11:14pm · Like Hemant Nikam Appendix y is applicable for flat face flanges where edge of mating flanges touches to each other and formed metal to metal contact thus this appendix ensures the safety . Purav Desai Hi Friends.. 2012 at 10:11pm · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam Dear all. April 4... If u have hpcl pjt backup u can refer that dwg and second thing this double bellow arrangement is applicable to vertical exchangers because of supports. large dia.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 7.one without will not use any extra gasket for hydrotest..non mandatory appendix.. Rohitash Singh Panwar @hemant: Do u have the drawing for that exchanger with two bellow.March 30. Page 21 of 390 Purav Desai Can you elaborate what do you mean by "m &y factor is to be consider as per gasket used for hydrotest purpose"..the flanges are flat faced and are in uniform metal-to-metal contact across their entire face during assembly before the bolts are tightened or after a small amount of preload is applied to compress a gasket. Appendix s stated some additional desgin considerations.. 2012 at 9:02pm via mobile · Like Avinash Araj i guess we go for second bellow. Appendix S :.in case of horizontal we can increase convolution and adjust between saddle.. after that even it is required to be changed. unusual cases and to get the tighten bolts sufficiently to withstand the test pressure without leakage. Arpita Shah In which condition the App. so m & y value should be 0……March 30. high pressure. one with auxilliary gasket and one without. 2012 at 10:20am via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam Dear. is not able to deal with thermal exp in the exchanger April 3. specially for high temp. I have not deal the same but i know the Arrangemwnt of two expansion bellow in vertical exchanger are one above the lug support and other one in below the support to allow the expansion bothside of support. 2012 at 7:23pm via mobile Vishal Patil Appendix 2 :. when a single bellow with 3 convolutions .. Appendix 2 and Appendix Y are for designing for flanges and appendix S for leakproof joint.Facebook . As per me. S and Y is applicable for the bolted flange design. For hydrotest purpose Lip seal gasket only shall be used…. so if required machining allowance is to be provided. 2012 at 9:05am · Like Kumar Kashyap weld ring gasket can be re welded 4 times.. 2012 at 9:09am · Like Kumar Kashyap basically there are are 2 types of weld ring gaskets.Mandatory for bolted gasketed flange joint..

Please share your views.Here 90% yield will not work because this test pressure will act as external pressure.April 13..Facebook .April 14. so after this jacket side hydro to be done…. 2012 at 8:08pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Mitul but let me know the hydrotest procedure for the jacketed vessel.April 12. 2012 at 6:59am · Like Mitul Patel Dear all..While finding governing MAP/MAWP we need to consider maximum allowable external pressure of inner shell also.I have query regarding tubeside jacketed heat exchanger..Do we need to check inner shell when we perform hydrotest on jacket side.April 14. 2012 at 10:50am Kanhaiya Narkhede likes this.In my case if we consider only jacket element than hydrotest pressure will be much higher. 2012 at 9:25pm via mobile Satvik Patel yes you have to consider hydro test..jacket side is steam with 5.Does code permit to avoid hydrotest of jacket inplace of any other testing like helium leak test etc.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 12. 2012 at 10:59pm · Like Purav Desai Thanks Hiren Javia.Hydrotest pressure is based on MAP. Has anybody come across the term called "Crimp Height" for plate heat exchangers? Please share your views.vendor has done same. Hiren Javia This term is also used in structured packing.6 bar / 190 degree C. so here crimp height is the depth for corrugation made on sheet…. Page 22 of 390 I have one doubt for Plate Heat Exchangers. II D / TEMA. 2012 at 7:02am · Like Satvik Patel For jacketed vessel it is required to do separately hydro test. The thermal expansion values starts with 70 ºF but if the temperature is below 70 ºF. 2012 at 10:45pm · Like Purav Desai Hey Friends.and we need to limit hydrotest pressure to this value means weakest component. in this that it is a depth of embossing on a thin sheet….April 13.It is also mentioned in UG- 99 that it is is to be separately tested…. we use the corrugated plates. does it hydrotested separately or along-with vessel? If it is hydrotested along-with vessel then the vessel shell will face differential pressure right?. 2012 at 5:25pm · Like Mitul Patel One possible solution for above problem I came across.Hope it is clear to all…. My understanding was also the same. that in plate heat exchanger.April 14. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 7. 2012 at 2:14pm · Like Mitul Patel As mentioned by satvik jacket hydor shall be done separatley. Code says to perform hydro test or Pneumatic test only…. I have a doubt for the thermal expansion values given in ASME Sec.April 14. what value of thermal expansion to be used? Static Equipment Group .reason is that before putting jacket on shell joint is to be checked with shell side hydro for any leak.

Facebook . That‟s why code is asking to comply with UHX-17 where shell is not continuous. 2012 at 9:32pm · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki I am designing BEM type exchanger with vapor belt provided on shell side. Now coming to the point. Now UHX-17 is for Flanged and fluid type expansion joint.4(d) (1). Vapor belts in heat exchangers are provided for the distribution of shell side fluid. 2012 at 9:29pm · Like · 2 Avedhesh Gupta metal contraction values are negligible. Low metal temperature only good for material selection /evaluation on which it shall be safe. What value of thermal expansion to be considered here? Further. COMPRESS asssumes some value of thermal expansion in tubesheet calculation but can't figure it out from where it is coming? Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 27. Vendor has provided calculation according to UHX-4(d)(2) as per which shell is continuous across the belt shall be designed in accordance with Type 1 jacket in App-9. for continuous shell where part of shell is slotted in vapor belt area. Page 23 of 390 For equipment specially fixed tubesheet exchanger in cryogenic (low temperature) service. if shell is not continuous. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 1. At the time of measurement if metal temperature is higher. Overhead condenser is the typical application. Regarding your query. 2012 at 8:10pm Purav Desai Hi Hemant. it will behave as an expansion joint and vapor belt will have to resist differential thermal expansion (stresses) between shell & tube. differential thermal expansion (stresses) shall be resisted by shell/tube-to-tubesheet joint. as per my experience. I think vendor has to follow UHX-4(d)(1) as shell is not continuous along belt.4(d)(1) vapor belt where shell is not continuous across the belt shall be designed in accordance with UHX-17. How to design vapor belt and take care it's effect as per UHX? If any body have past project experience on this please share your experience on the same. no value addition in calculation when metal temperature are lower than this standard temperature. Static Equipment Group . As per UHX. 2012 at 8:09am Avedhesh Gupta believe this is standard temperature on which dimensions are based. However. then you must add the expansion to work out actual length at that temperature. When you say it is one meter then you may refer that it is measured when metal temperature is 21°C (70°F).And this is why you do not find expansion coefficient below this std temperature……June 27. i have observed that Commercial software like PVELite. In this case we just need to check vapor belt as per Type 1 jacket in App-9. Can any body give guidance and share their view on this regard. usually have mean metal temperaure below 70 ºF. so if I am wrong please correct……June 27. But how to take care UHX-17? because UHX-17 is talking about expansion bellow not vapor belt. as described in UHX. as the shell is continuous. This is all I believe no literature basis. Shell is slotted within vapor belt area.

July 3. HTFS etc.” Once.July 3. Expansion joint design shall consider shell side start-up condition where shell side medium is at maximum design temperature and fluid inside tubes is at 15 ºC. Recently I come across similar situation in my present assignment and upon further reading. I would like to share one important learning of mine especially for UOP licensor requirements. As in my project 2010 edition is applicable so i no need to satisfy UHX-4(d)(2) requirements.Facebook . 2012 at 2:22pm · Like · 3 Hemant Solanki Purav has correctly explained UHX-4 (d)(1) and 4(d)(2). the temperatures given in UOP design condition is for fluid and not the mean metal temperature. Sometimes for SS/CS exchanger such critical differential temperature results in bellows type expansion joint (thin wall). Some exchangers have as many as 5 convolutions. the allowable axial stress is the maximum allowable stress for the shell material (see UG-23). These temperatures shall be used to calculate MMT using thermal design software (HTRI. the allowable stress is as defined in UHX-13. still my vendor has provided vapor belt calculation as per App-9." We need to check how to take care of above requirement as per 2011 addenda for continuous shell vapor belt. one interesting requirement as per clause 4(d)(2) is "The longitudinal stress in the shell section with openings (for flow into the shell) shall be based on the net area of the shell (the shell area less that removed by the openings) and shall not exceed the applicable allowable stress criteria.. So vendor calculation as per UHX-4(d) (2) is correct…. 2012 at 8:44pm · Like Purav Desai Hello friends. We have to just check this in Pvelite-2012 that how pvelite is taking care this requirement. UOP has a specific requirement as below. I also discussed with my lead and understood clearly.10. For U-tube and floating head exchangers.. However while finding solution for this I came across new findings from code. deign as per UHX-17 but there is no detail added for continuous shell vapor belt. Shell side MMT: Shell side design temperature Tube side MMT: 15 ºC With above. upto 2010 edition of code there is only UHX-4(d) which is mentioning about if shell is not continuous. Page 24 of 390 Generally vapor belts are provided continuous shell with slots in the vapor belt area. The interesting part is when we calculated the Static Equipment Group . Any one who can interpret above requirement and can explain where to take care this in UHX calculation please discuss it in this forum…. “Reboiler shall have expansion joint on the shell. and for fixed tubesheet exchangers. which in a way increases exchanger cost.5. FYI.). I came across the above requirement & I designed reboilers considering Mean Metal temperature (MMT) as below. For reboilers (fixed tubesheet type). In 2011 addenda asme has grouped both method as UHX-4(d)(1) and 4(d)(2). all the reboiler had minimum 3 convolutions of expansion joint. I found that.

It is very important & can reduce cost of exchanger significantly. Hemant Solanki Localized Corrosion in a Heat Exchanger Channel Background A Local Thin Area (LTA) was found during an online ultrasonic examination The LTA was in the heat exchanger channel shell near an inlet nozzle (a major structural discontinuity An aggressive corrosion rate. Mitul Patel and Rohitash Singh Panwar like this. Deepak Gitte As per the project requirement design code for seismic is “Code: UBC 97 + API STD 650 10th Edition (2003)” and we had done calculation as per this code but during calculation Static Equipment Group . Please take care of above if you are dealing with UOP as a licensor. Even for stainless steel/carbon steel exchangers only one convolution of expansion joint was needed. The thickness measurement data was transferred onto a finite element model for analysis as shown. Based on the calculated stress. The spreadsheet was color coded to show the areas of highest damage (in red). 2012 at 8:28pm Rohitash Singh Panwar likes this. 2012 at 4:05pm Arpita Shah. the exchanger design is passing without expansion joint for carbon steel exchangers. as was the failure of the internal coating The facility planned to replace the channel within one year Engineering Solution A Part 5. Level 3 Fitness-For-Service (FFS) assessment of the damage was performed in accordance with the API 579-1/ASME FFS-1 Standard A grid of thickness data was provided by inspectors and transferred to a spreadsheet. Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 19. Note black area is nozzle hole in shell. greater than 500 mils/year (12.7 mm/year was observed. Page 25 of 390 MMT. the FFS assessment indicated that the vessel is acceptable for continued operation based on the assumptions made for the future corrosion allowance Recommendations Apply a new internal. carbon steel shell Benefits Avoided a costly delay in the shutdown Was able to demonstrate that the component (channel shell) could be operated safely for one year without replacement Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 23. two component coating system to the heat exchanger channel Perform online ultrasonic thickness monitoring on a monthly basis to confirm the effectiveness of the coating and the assumed future corrosion allowance Replace the damaged component (channel shell) with a stainless steel clad.Facebook .

Now there are two cases for for seismic design. See the para from API-650 App. However Please note that in SECTION VIII.6. Q is the scaling factor used to get the Fa & FV values for Design Earthquake case. 2012 at 10:29am Hemant Solanki As per 2011a addenda ASME has introduced a new single Product Certification Mark. definition of Design Earthquake is given as. In one of my project Only column is designed for MCE condition and other vessel /drum is design for DBE condition…. Further as per ASCE 7.July 25. U2.4. If you want to design for MCE condition whose probabily is very less. what is solution for this problem. U3 stamping any more. Page 26 of 390 of scaling factor we consider Q=1 as per API-650 app. U2.0 unless otherwise defined in the regulatory requirements where ASCE 7 does not apply” based on this clause our calculation is correct. 1) Design Earthquake design (DBE) 2) Maximum considered earthquake design (MCE) The values of factor Fa & FV are specified only for Maximum Considered Earthquake (refer API 650 Table E-1 & E-2). you will have to multiply these values by 2/3.July 26. the Case No. after that date you cannot accept the U. Please share your experience and knowledge.Facebook . Refer attached article from HSB newsletter for the same. I want know significant of “Q”. 2714 shall be listed on the MDR if the vessel is to be U. But on other hand our civil team consider scaling factor is Q=2/3 for ASCE and civil team done all necessary work such as foundation.” Hence in your case. 2012 at 10:52am via · Like · 2 Static Equipment Group .com Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 26. This is possible until 31 December 2012. 2012 at 5:59am Purav Desai As per me. So when you are designing for Design basis earthquake. 2012 at 12:17pm · Like Mrudul Vasavada Anybody have the copy of Code Case 2714? Please pass it on to me on mrudulv@gmail. email Refer Code case 2714 attached herewith…. “The earthquake effects that are two-thirds of the corresponding Maximum Considered Earthquake (MCE) effects. I never across this type of situation. U3-stamped instead of ASME Certification mark stamping. 2012 at 8:59am · Like · 1 Mihir Jha Q is simply a multiplication factor which is directly related to the factor of safety. then the foundation load become high and cost of the project is also going to be very high. surely the civil team specification ask for foundation design as per Design Basis Earthquake design and hence they are using 2/3 factor…. E Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 25.1 “Q may be taken equal to 1.July 25. FOR DBE case is less sever as we are considering only 67% of load at MCE condition. E clause E.

i simply commented that number of bolts shall always be in multiple of four (4). As we know the bolt tightening sequence also confirms such that gasket will be at even compression. of bolts are not adequate for proper flange joint as it will not give full proof joint even though we go for high bolt size. 2012 at 3:36pm · Like Purav Desai Thanks for replying to such a silly query…. and the number is always an even number (4. As we know that 2 Nos. I think if you do a quick literature survey. 12. straddled center line with equal distance. My view on this is as below. But then a question came to my mind. 2012 at 3:29pm · Like · 1 Ramesh Tiwari Purav. Please revise. Orientation of Anchor bolt will automatically fixed. The numbers and diameters diverge per Pressure Class. the results will bear out this fact….. of bolts (flnge bolts/skirt support bolts) in multiple of four (4)? I tried but could not succed to get the concrete answer. No need to specify orientation of perticular bolt.. by specify only no.August 13. Also with multiple of 4 straddling of the studs will have no problem. Which will provide larger space between studs as we go for higher size flanges.August 13. Page 27 of 390 Mrudul Vasavada Many Thanks Hemant Solanki…. The bolt holes are be similar divided over the diameter of the bolt circle. But the practice indeed is to use number of bolts in multiples of four . Smart thumb rule to avoid error in mismatch in equipment base ring and foundation….August 13. Because of that rule.5 is also de standard for the number and the diameter of the bolt holes in a flange. of anchor bolt..for reasons already mentioned above. To give even pressure on gasket more than 3 studs are required. why we always select no. This is possible only when the bolt is selected in multiple of four. I don't think you are going to get a definite. 2012 at 11:06am · Like Purav Desai Hello Friends. 16 etc. 2012 at 4:04pm · Like Hemant Solanki ASME B16. Looking at 70. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 13. 8. It will compress gasket evenly. Tightening sequence image is attached herewith. concrete answer to this question. 2012 at 2:46pm Faizan Ahmed 4 quadrants. So with 4 and multiple of 4 we are just ensuring that gasket compression will be even during tightening of bolts. vendor selected 70 stud bolts.Facebook .. 2012 at 3:18pm · Like Krishna Desai should be always straddle at centerline and with equal angle.August 13.July 26. but is for every typ of flange in a specific Pressure Class the same. During the Vendor drawing checking for one of the equipment body flange.. Please share your views..). Static Equipment Group . With 3 bolts also there is lack of even gasket compression because it will give 120° relative orientation between studs.

Page 28 of 390

This funda is also applicable for deciding number of anchor and setting bolts….August 13, 2012 at
email
6:34pm via · Like · 2

Hiren Javia as per my opinipn….August 13, 2012 at 6:54pm via mobile · Like

Hiren Javia as per my opinion it is so becuse on center line both x and y axis gets equal and simitric
bolt load….August 13, 2012 at 6:56pm via mobile · Like

Manish Shukla PB, my answers to you is:

You CAN have studs with multiple of "2" instead of "4".

As per KBR: One can go with multiple of 2 above size 2.5" UNC

However, you have to maintain offset to C/L.

As per ASME PCC-1: This code doesn't say about number of bolts nor it says straddle to center line.
This code takes the reference of bolt tightening procedure till 80 number of bolts (as I remember).

If you see the figures of bolt tightening procedure there is fig for the bolts which are not straddle
hence, bolt can fall on axis.

There are 4 different ways of bolt tightening apart from "legacy".

If you read those ways you would be able to understand how differently bolt can be tightened….August
13, 2012 at 7:42pm · Like · 1

Pramod Dixit The logic behind practice of taking multiple of 4 was that all bolts shall be uniformly
placed in all 4 quadrants of the flange and no bolt shall fall on any center line ( horizontal or vertical).
Now the question is why CL bolt is avoided ? reason is very simple imagine a bolt at bottom facing the
ground and very close gap with ground. or imagine two flanges of pipes close to each other and both
flanges having stud bolts on horizontal CL. Is it not difficult to open ??.....August 15, 2012 at
3:50pm · Like · 1

Hemant Nikam Dear Purav,

To avoid the leakage from flange joint we always follow the below
procedure,

During the tighteneing of bolts we always tight first one nut/bolt and then tight opposite to that ,If you
have not considered no of bolts for flange
joint in multiply of 4In that may not happened exactly tightening of
opposite portion of flange and chances of leakage/bending of flange may be there.

email
If any body have different view let us share…..August 15, 2012 at 6:28pm via · Like · 1

Rajendra Sharma

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Shall we design a equipment with MAWP = Design Pressure?
Though the client wants the equipment to be designed with MAWP (MAWP to be stamped
on the name plate).
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 16, 2012 at 9:29pm

Mihir Jha The question seems to be incomplete. Equipment designed with MAWP that does not mean
that MAWP = Design pressure. Client want to calculate the MAWP of the equipment. If you calculate
the MAWP, it always => Design Pressure. For the equipment, when the calculation are not made to
determine the MAWP . Then , we can consider MAWP = Design pressure. Refer UG-99 (b) Note 34.
MAWP is always stamped on the name plate for code stamped vessel Ref. Fig-UG-118….August 17,
2012 at 7:41am · Like

Purav Desai Hi Rajendra,

Yes, you can use design pressure as MAWP. In my present project, similar to your case, it is specified
that equipment to be designed for MAWP. However an additional note is given for the use of design
pressure as MAWP.

“The maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP) may be the design pressure specified at the top of
the vessel for the design temperature provided openings are adequately reinforced and the specified
corrosion allowance is available without the use of reinforcement pads. The pressure used in the
calculations shall be adjusted for any difference in static head that may exist between the part
considered and the top of the vessel.”

I think if you ensure above you can use MAWP as design pressure….August 17, 2012 at 10:06am · Like

Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear purav sir...
I have one doubt...why client specify to design the equipment at MAWP....that in future if client wants
to increase the design pressure..then he can use the same equipment upto the pressure equal to
MAWP...right sir..if i m wrong ..plz correct me...

Now my doubt is....if we take MAWP equal to design pressure as per code...in order to avoid calculation
for same.....then the whole purpose for which the client insist to design the equipment at MAWP is not
solved...
Please give ur opinion on same…August 18, 2012 at 9:09am via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki First of all we are designing pressure equipment with following steps.
1. we have to determine a minimum required thickness for any pressure element based on design
pressure. after computation of the minimum thickness, we add corrosion allowance, mill
undertolerance, any additional thickness to satisfy UG-22 loadings, and finally can select a commercially
available nominal thickness of the element. The same way we compute a minimum required thickness
of every pressure boundary component and determine a nominal thickness. We satisfied the design
Pressure and the Code requirements and technically can stop at this point to allow the components to
be a bit thicker than required.
2. However, after the nominal thicknesses are determined for each component, we usually re-calculate
MAWP. MAWP is the maximum gage pressure permissible at the top of a completed vessel in operating
condition.MAWP is the least of the values for the internal pressure to be determined by the rules of this
Division for any of the pressure boundary parts, including the static head thereon.MAWP is calculated
using nominal thickness exclusive of allowances for corrosion.

So even though as per equipment nominal thickness MAWP of equipment is more than (and it should
be equal or greater than) design pressure. I can limit MAWP of this equipment at Design pressure.

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Rohitash Singh Panwar, Your doubt is good. but logically what client says is that other than shell and
head all remaining pressure equipment shall be designed on MAWP of that equipment. What you has
written it means that you have to again take P=MAWP in code formulas. Which is not the case and not
correct way. In that scenario you will never get specific thickness because after every calculation of min
thickness you will again add some allowance and it will again increase and change MAWP of your
equipment.
What client is asking that specify MAWP of this equipment. which will be greater than design pressure.
Yes he is asking to get idea upto which this equipment can pressurised in future.
We have to just calculate MAWP by back calculation of code formula and specify it on nameplate and
drawing. However before specifying it we have to ensure that at this MAWP other components like
nozzles, nozzle local load analyse, support lugs everything are OK or not. otherwise in future when
client wants to increase pressure upto MAWP. shell and head may not fail but other components as
mentioned may get failure.
During design if your nozzles and supports are failed with MAWP as design condition then as rightly
said by Purav, limit MAWP equals to design pressure and specify it on your drawing and nameplate. so
client will not think to increase pressure beyond it. Practically why to increase thickness (and cost also)
of other components due to MAWP while still it is not clear whether client will try to increase pressure
or not. Better to limit it upto Design Pressure in case of failures. If everything is OK then go with actual
MAWP….August 18, 2012 at 1:59pm · Like · 1

Rohitash Singh Panwar Actually i mean to say that hydrotest pressure based on mawp....not the
design of equipment at MAWP......
If we take actual MAWP then we might have to increase the thickness to pass the equipment in
hydrotest condition......
In one of case of floating head heat exchanger, the hydrotest pressure on shell side is based on 1.3
times of MAWP...but when we apply this hydrotest pressure on shell side...then the floating head cover
fails in external pressure because the MAEP of floating head cover is lesd than 1.3 times of MAWP on
shel side....the same problem we have faced for jacketed channel where inner head and shell fails in
external pressure...in these cases,either we have to increase the thickness or we can limit MAWP to
design pressure……August 18, 2012 at 3:12pm via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki I will try to explain condition here and how to get through it.Imagine one
intermediate dish end which is occupied inside shell. Now how to decide MAWP for lower chamber
(below intermediate dish end). This lower chamber is equipped with bottom head , connecting shell
and on top intermediate dish end. Here, we have to first find out MAWP of bottom head and connecting
shell. Then find out MAEP of intermediate dish end as internal pressure in lower chamber will act on
convex side of this intermediate dish end. Now compare MAWP of bottom dish end, shell with MAEP of
intermediate dish end. lowest out of these 3 will become MAWP of lower chamber. Obviously
Intermediate dish end MAEP will limit MAWP of lower chamber. With this we have to carry out hydro
pressure calculation as per UG-99(b). Actually Pvelite is not understanding this so we have to manually
calculate and put it as user defined MAWP.
Same logic can be applied in floating head exchanger.
Also during hydro time floating head assembly hydro they perform separate. they use test ring for shell
hydro. Purav, please correct about this if I am wrong…August 19, 2012 at 12:27pm · Like · 1

Madhusudhan Shetty I would like to put / get some clarity…August 19, 2012 at 3:24pm · Like

Rohitash Singh Panwar Ya sir...we had also calculated the MAWP in the same way...but the
problems arise when the intermediate dish end governs...so we have to multiply the intermediate
dished end maep by 1.3 for calculating the hydrotest pressure.....in this case the intermediate dish end
fails in external pressure...because hydrotest pressure (1.3x MAEP) is greater than intermediate

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dishend MAEP.....we cannot take allowable stress as 90% yield in case of external pressure...so in this
case , we have to increase the dished end thickness...till the point where maep of dished end is greater
than 1.3 x MAWP of other governing component........or in a simpler way...donot consider the
intermediate dished end while calculating the mawp and then design the intermediate dished end for
externsl pressure equal to 1.3 x mawp for hydrotest condition...please correct me..if i m
wrong.....August 19, 2012 at 3:28pm via mobile · Like

Madhusudhan Shetty 1) During hydrotest of the shell side (major barrel), the bundle will not be in
position hence floating head will not come into picture 2) Floating bundle needs to be hydrotested
seperately. 3) Most of the specifications say"MAWP shall not be limited by nozzle reinforcement" (take
care of this)……August 19, 2012 at 3:32pm · Like

Hemant Solanki As intermediate dish end is governing and 1.3* MAWP is acting as external pressure
on intermediate head we can take allowable as 0.9*By. here By is terminating point of external
pressure chart of given material. Try this. And also as Madhusudhan Shetty has explained for floating
head it is not needed to check floating head for hydrotest…..August 19, 2012 at 7:08pm · Like

Rajendra Sharma Please note that some specs. states that not only nozzle reinforcement but MWP
shall not be governed by nozzle neck or flange rating.
Now if in case MAWP is governed by nozzle rating than either we have to increase flange rating and in
that case piping have to increase piping thickness or either we can take advantage of MAWP=Design
pressure.By by doing MAWP=Design pressure (which is even acceptable as per code)we can save
considerable amount of cost…..August 19, 2012 at 9:55pm · Like · 1

Rohitash Singh Panwar I think floating head cover is subjected to external pressure during
hydrotest of shell side....please correct me if i m wrong..

Hydrotest procedure for floating heat exchanger...
1. Tube side hydrotest...with test flange on shell side for clamping the tubesheet....joint which are
tested are....gasketed joint between stationary tubesheet and channel flange...channel cover and
channel flange joint....and joint for fliating head cover and floating tubesheet...
2. Shell side hydrotest...first remove floating head cover...then with the help of test ring floating head
tubesheet is kept inposition...test ring is bolted with rear shell flange...the joint which are tested
are....tube to tubeshhet joint for stationary and floating head....gasketed joint between tubesheet and
shell flange..

Till now all the gasketed joints are tested except one...i.e. between rear shell flange and shell cover
flange...

So the next step is to remove the test ring...then bolt the floating tubesheet between backing ring and
floating head cover....then bolt the shell cover with rear shell flange...then again pressurise the shell
side with water to check the joint of shell flange and shell cover....
During this..the floating head cover is subjected to external pressure equal to shell side hydrotest
pressure....so we have to design the floating head cover for external pressure during hydrotest....
Please give ur opinion on same......August 20, 2012 at 11:29am via mobile · Like · 1

Mitul Patel Rohitash,I think your understanding is correct.

Hemant can you please give Asme code basis for the 0.9By.

we have checked in aspensuite BJAC software which also doing similar to this when we run hydrotest
case.

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Because as far as I know code is silent on external hydro test pressure.Please refer code interpretation
number VIII-82-57.

likewise 0.9*yield for internal hydrotest is not mentioned in div.1 we are using the same.

As ASME has taken factor of saftey of 3.5 while finalising allowable stress of diff. material.

Value of B in external pressure chart is also stress with some f.o.s.For situation like hydro we can use
higher stress but there is no strong back up in code.

If anybody has any idea on this please share….August 20, 2012 at 8:49pm via mobile · Like

Rajendra Sharma Dear friends the question was shall we declare MAWP=Design pressure if still client
wants MAWP of each component to be calculated.(specially where client is Shell)….August 20, 2012 at
9:19pm · Like

Rajendra Sharma Please share your experience by stating Yes or No….August 20, 2012 at
9:21pm · Like

Rohitash Singh Panwar Yes….August 20, 2012 at 11:36pm via mobile · Like

Purav Desai Very rightly mentioned by query originator, since last few conversations we have been
diverted to different topic then the original question. Anyways this also is very interesting & must know
topic.

Coming to the same, what rohitash and mitul has mentioned is correct. Floating head will subject to
external hydro test pressure & needs to be designed for that.

Further same is the case with jacketed vessel; it also needs to be designed as mentioned above for
hydro test case. If MAEP governs, allowable stress shall be 0.9 * By as explained by Hemant in one of
the reply above. We can use 0.9 * By because compressive stress will be applied on components under
external pressure and this we can compare with factor B which is allowable compressive stress.

Also, I would like to mention here is, similar to above there are many more design issues in static
equipment design. The important point is such situation has to be handled tactfully and smartly based
on the work place where it arises i.e. if it arises at an EPC company or vendor‟s place; dealing with the
same, one has to keep in mind schedule & cost of the equipment. I have also observed that such
stringent requirements were brought into by referring other‟s specifications and applicability of the
same must be checked. Once known such points shall be clarified with Owner/PMC in advance. Hope
with this we can conclude on this query…..August 21, 2012 at 5:43am · Like

Hemant Solanki Thanks Purav for your prompt reply.

External pressure chart is simple stress strain diagram. Strain is A and stress factor is B. Its terminating
point is yield point (By). This By will not change much for internal or external design as yield is material
property.
Hydrotest allowable is not clearly mentioned in code. Only UG-99(b) talks about bolt LSR based on 0.9
times bolt yield strength. This can be taken as reference for hydro allowable upto 0.9 times yield. Most
of the client specifications clearly includes this requirement.
Most time the allowed hydrotest stress will just be 1.3 (1.5 for Pre-99 addenda) times the allowable
stress for the vessel at ambient temperature. Under some circumstances you may choose to use an

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allowable hydrotest stress of 0.9 times the yield stress of the material at ambient temperature. This is
especially helpful in the case of tall vertical process tower where the hydrotest pressure is increased by
height of the water used for testing. Use of the higher hydrotest allowable stress may prevent the
hydrotest case from controlling the thickness of the vessel.
Client spec also specifies that hydro compressive stress to be limited upto external allowable
compressive stress as per code. Which will be upto B. not 0.9 times By. Which is more conservative.
But as per my view we can go upto 0.9 times By as we are following for hydro internal
email
pressure…..August 21, 2012 at 11:14am via · Like

Hemant Solanki One very interesting fact I observed for hydro allowable.

As mentioned previously Most time the allowed hydrotest stress will just be 1.3 (1.5 for Pre-99
addenda) times the allowable stress for the vessel at ambient temperature. Under some circumstances
you may choose to use an allowable hydrotest stress of 0.9 times the yield stress of the material at
ambient temperature.

If we take UTS as basis for hydro allowable then in that case hydro allowable = 1.3 X UTS at ambient /
3.5 = 0.371 X UTS at ambient.
Now If we take Yield Stress as basis then Hydro allowable = 1.3 X 2/3 X YS at ambient = 0.8666 X YS
at ambient = Approx. 0.90 X YS at ambient.

So YS basis Hydro allowable can be limited upto 0.90 X YS. Which is also logical and will limit stress
below plastic zone. With UTS hydro allowable will be more conservative which may ask for increase in
thickness in Hydrocase. Which is merely not required.

Others may share their views. But I think 0.9 X YS basis came from this logic….August 21, 2012 at
email
11:43am via · Like · 1

Rupesh Ubale Your observation is correct...previously it was exactly matching, when hydro was 1.5
times (i.e. 3/2) the allowable....as hydro test is one of the form of non-destructive or rather non-
deformative test so obviously it has to be restricted upto yeild...Therefore setting allowable upto yeild
for hyro which is nothing but = 1.5*2/3*YS=YS…..August 21, 2012 at 10:12pm · Like

Rupesh Ubale MAWP : If spec says so...them you should design equipment for MAWP..but at times
there may be failures in the vessel for selected MAWP..It advisable to then to go for lowering MAWP for
saving material cost...Use userdefine MAWP while solving the problems…August 21, 2012 at
10:18pm · Like

Purav Desai
Dear Members,

I would like to share below clause of ASME Sec. VIII Div. I Part UHX 13.4(b) and UHX
14.4(c);

"Elastic Moduli, yield strengths and allowable stresses shall be taken at design
temperatures. However for cases involving thermal loading (loading case 4,5,6 and 7), it is
permitted to use the operating temperatures instead of design temperatures (see UG-20)."

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This will be helpful for fixed tubesheet design. A quick tab is available for this clause in
Commercial software like PVELite, COMPRESS.
Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 26, 2012 at 11:34am
Kiran Gawade, Rohitash Singh Panwar, Avedhesh Gupta and 6 others like this.

Ankur Gupta Thanks for sharing

June 26, 2012 at 4:17pm · Like

Arpita Shah hey thanxs 4 sharing

June 26, 2012 at 6:15pm via mobile · Like

Manish Shukla I understand!

June 26, 2012 at 8:40pm via mobile · Like

Rupesh Ubale Thanks

August 21, 2012 at 11:08pm · Like

Hemant Solanki
NTIW Tubesheet Design - How ?

As per UHX-10(a) The tubesheet shall be uniformly perforated over a nominally circular
area, in either equilateral triangular or square patterns.However, untubed lanes for pass
partitions are permitted.
Does as per above clause NTIW tubesheet can not be design with UHX ?
Please discuss.
If not then How to design NTIW tubesheet ?
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 22, 2012 at 6:49pm via Email

Purav Desai and Mitul Patel like this.

Rupesh Ubale No with normal UHX methodology it's not possible. To solve this you have to consider
plate with two different youngs mod.

One E* for tube portion of TS & other E for untubed portion of tube sheet..such model is then
analysed in FEA...We might feel that partially tubed TS will be more safer...but its not always true...in
such cases there is possibility of generation of sec. stresses at junction of tubes & untubed due to
apparently different E* & E

same is also explained in UHX

August 22, 2012 at 11:35pm · Like

Hemant Solanki Yes Rupesh, as per code interpretation VIII-1-04-61, ASME also stated to perform
FEA. The same interpretation is as below.

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email
Interpretation: VIII-1-04-61….August 23, 2012 at 9:24am via · Like

Hemant Solanki Question: Do tubesheets for shell-and-tube heat exchangers having a no-tubes-in-
window (NTIW) baffle design fall within the scope of Section VIII, Division 1 Part UHX?

email
Reply: No; see UHX-10(a) and U-2(g)…..August 23, 2012 at 9:25am via · Like · 1

Purav Desai Sounds surprizing!!! TEMA also specifiies the same thing for conditions of applicability
(Tubes are uniformaly distributed, no large untube area). However during design of tubesheet in
commercial softwares, it does not provide warning message for this and till now I used to design
tubesheet for NTIW baffles using rules of UHX. Further I believe that for NTIW baffles design,
tubesheet thickness calculated by UHX rules will be conservative because of comparitively less
perforations in the tubesheet….August 23, 2012 at 10:09am · Like · 1

Purav Desai Similar to above case, its always a case of higher untube lane area for washet heat
exchangers. In one of my previous job, i experienced that for this case tubesheet calculation was done
considering it as stayed plate (UG-47), wherein tubes are considered as stay bolts and additionally in
the top half of the tubesheet untube area were supported by bracings from the shell side. Can we use
the same for NTIW baffle tubesheet design also? Please share ur views….August 23, 2012 at
10:25am · Like

Hemant Solanki For NTIW design all design software distributes total number of tubes uniformly over
tubesheet and then performs UHX analysis. Which is not the correct way.
As ASME has clearly mentioned that U-2(g) is applicable in such design then FEA is the only option.
This will increase design and overall cost of NTIW exchanger design.
I suggest members please discuss this within your organization about how they tackles this issue.
Also we have to also highlight this issue to Coadae and Codeware…..August 23, 2012 at
email
10:28am via · Like

Hemant Solanki Refer very interesting conversation on NTIW tubesheet design given on below link.
http://www.onetb.com/forum/ntiw-tubesheet-calculation-t231.html

ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code - ONE/TÜV/BV Technical Inspections • View topic -
NTIW tubeshee

email
www.onetb.com.....August 23, 2012 at 12:18pm via · Like · Remove Preview

Hemant Solanki Attached is the FE method for NTIW tubesheet design….August 23, 2012 at
email
12:20pm via · Like

Purav Desai Thanks Hemant for raising such a good topic......August 23, 2012 at 4:06pm · Like

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Amarnath C. Roy I guess Purav You are right... We generally don't go for FEA for NTIW design.
Because the UHX method gives more conservative design anytime... If you are going for FEA as we
have done in a few cases (per Client's requirement) we found that the tubesheet thickness is comes
out to be lesser then what we got through UHX calc. So Hemant I can tell you that, NTIW design
through UHX is acceptable. But of course, FEA always gives you more accurate design….August 25,
2012 at 5:04pm · Like

Ankur Gupta frnds, pl make me understand how NTIW condition is different from any multi passes
layout for design of tubesheet.because in multi passes also, there are UNTUBED lanes?....August 25,
2012 at 7:59pm · Like

Ankur Gupta Rupesh Ubale why there will be diffrent Young's modulus?...August 25, 2012 at
8:00pm · Like

Rupesh Ubale Amarnath, Its not always true...I have experienced NTIW case last year in Turkmengas
project with Petrofac...where in even UHX Tubesheet is failing…

further to it....there will be more complications when two different rigidity/stiffness exist in single
tubesheet, leads to very different behaviour. There is failure at line between tubed area & untubed
area...even by increasing thickness it became more worse...Here I suppose two different behaviour of
single plate causes excessive stressing. Also according to ASME sec.-1 for Tubesheet design there is
special consideration given for peripheral untubed area, you need to provide stays. Hence its clear that
untubed area dont get benefite tubes which inturn provide stiffness to tubesheet….

Solution to above problem is to provide dummy tubes or stays....which only can be proved by FEA. If
UHX has been conservative design for NTIW then it would have not excluded from scope. Partially
tubed tubesheet behaves in different manner....Reference:Sulphur condenser from Turkmengas project
& Sulphur condenser from Bina refinery.

Diff young's mod: is design methodology..ASME converts perforated tubesheet into an equivalent
unperforated plate of lower youngs mod...which will behave same as of perforated (meaning weak due
to perforation)thats why plate flexibility differs with untubed area. Due to flexibility difference there is
sort of stress concentration…August 25, 2012 at 11:10pm · Like

Ankur Gupta : Pass partition untubed lanes are in the scope of design of ASME VIII…August 25, 2012
at 11:11pm · Like

Hemant Solanki Rupesh Ubale has conveyed this topic very correctly. That's why ASME has clearly
mentioned in interpretation VIII-1-04-61 that NTIW tubesheet shall be designed only as per U-2(g) and
not as per UHX…August 26, 2012 at 12:15pm · Like

Arpita Shah
Hi friends
Anyone tell me how to design double pipe heat exchanger? please share your views.
Like · · Follow Post · Share · September 4, 2012 at 10:28pm via mobile
Mihir Jha Double pipe is a proprietary venodr design. There are mainly 2 type - One is multitube heat
exchanger and other is simple double pipe. Simple double pipe can be designed by ASME by
considering the two pipe as separate entity. Whereas for multitube type, vendorhave proprietary design
of enclosure, Tubesheet which will depned on the pressure condition. Brownfin is a good vendor of
multitube type. As per mechanical view please consider the following before vendor print review - 1.

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Check datasheet for the requirement of double pipe or multitube 2. Never accept the vendor who
supply double pipe if the requirement is multitube type. The reason is simple, multitube type takes less
space as compared to double pipe. In one project, we have faced the layout problem…..September 5,
2012 at 6:41am · Like

Arpita Shah Hey thanx……September 5, 2012 at 8:09am via mobile · Like

Purav Desai Double pipe exchanger design becomes proprietary ONLY WHEN it is specifically asked
by client (i.e. some special vendor‟s like Brown Fintube is recommended by Client).

Most of the times Double pipe exchangers can be thermally designed as straight pipe. Once it is
straight pipe, it can also be added to piping scope. If length is a constraint then it can be thermally
design in hairpin shape also (Refer attached figure).

Hence, when you have double pipe exchanger, and if client wants it to be designed & supplied by
special vendor, I think you must clarify with client & make it a simple design. You can achieve good
amount of cost saving……September 5, 2012 at 8:58am · Like

Arpita Shah Purav this heat exchanger like hairpin not multi tube type….September 5, 2012 at
11:55am via mobile · Like

Mihir Jha Purav Desai I have bitter experience with double pipe in one of my project. In MR it has
mentioned VTA the type of heat exchanger i.e double pipe or multitube. One vendor Applied
engineering from Singapore has quoted double pipe design and brown fin tube has quoted Multitube
type. As per datasheet multitube is required. However i have accepted singapore vendor and brown fin
both as per MR. The weight given by singapore vendor is 100 times greater than brownfin weight. Even
though the cost is less as compared to brownfin. The size furnished by Applied Engg. is very huge as
compared to brown fin. Unfortunately piping do not have so much space to accomodate. Please do not
carried away with the word double pipe….September 5, 2012 at 11:59am · Like

Purav Desai Dear Mihir Jha, Looking at your case i think the person who has prepared MR has done a
mistake. If the multitube is required as per datasheet why option for multitube or double pipe is given
in MR. Further if you refer HTRI Program, modules are separate for thermal design of double pipe
exchanger (jacketed pipe) & multitube exchanger. Hence if Licensor datasheet says double pipe, there
are very little chance that it will be changed to multitube type for same design conditions unless
something similar happen as described above…..September 5, 2012 at 3:00pm · Like

Arpita Shah Well purav and mihir thanxs for your views. but tell me the design procedure as per
code…..September 7, 2012 at 7:40pm via mobile · Like · 1

Purav Desai Oh... I thought the attached sketch clarifies you the design aspects. Its consists of inner
pipe, outer pipe, cap at ends ,standard flange & a return bend. I hope you know ASME calculation for
pipe (nozzles), pipe cap, standard 90º bend as per ASME code….September 7, 2012 at 8:23pm · Like

Arpita Shah I didnt get sketch can u mail me on my id arpita3456@yahoo.co.in....September 7, 2012
at 8:32pm via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki
Bs max value in extended end of tubesheet

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In one of exchanger tubesheet was extended as flange. Connecting flange maximum
numbers of bolts has been decided according to flange thickness. But tubesheet extended
portion thickness was less (as compared to connecting flange thickness) so in UHX-9
Bmax calculated based on this extended tubesheet thickness and Bsmax calculated is less
as compatred to Bsmax of connecting flange. Due to which in tubesheet design Bs value
shown as higher than Bsmax.
This will be concern when designing extended end tubesheet with flange. So always
consider extended end of tubesheet hickness (or smaller thickness out of 2 connecting
flange portion) to calculate Bsmax and accordingly decide numbers of bolts.

Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 11, 2012 at 6:10pm via Email
Purav Desai likes this.

Hemant Solanki
Flange Rigidity in Hydrocase is not required- See latest Interpretation

Interpretation: VIII-1-10-41
Subject: Appendix 2, 2-14; UG-99(b); UG-99(c); and Interpretation VIII-1-07-52 (2010
Edition)
Date Issued: August 30, 2011
File No.: 11-1236
Question: In satisfying the provisions of Appendix 2, 2-14, is it required to calculate the
flange rigidity for
hydrostatic test condition with test pressure established as per UG-99(b) or UG-99(c)?
Reply: No.
Mukesh K Prajapati, Mitul Patel and 2 others like this.

Mitul Patel Can we raise similar inquiry to ASME for doing hydrotest calculation for the Appendix-2
flange ? As this hydrotest calculation is also not standard practise followed by the most of
manufacturers & engineering companies. Please share does it really required to check flange in
hydrotest case……September 13, 2012 at 9:46pm · Like

Hemant Solanki Dear,
This interpretation is for flange rigidity check of non standard flanges designed as per Appendix-2.
For Standard flanges as per B16.5 and B16.47 these checks are not done. However hydro test pressure
taken is upto 1.5 times of flange rating for these standrad flanges.

Hemant Solanki I would like to elaborate ASME point of view while coming to this decision.

1. 1st of all Hydrotest is a transiant load condition. It means equipment will go through this loading not
more than 3-4 times during entire equipment life. That is also for less time. Not more than 1 hour.
2. Another point is what is purpose of hydrotest? To check integrity of joints so that there will not be
any leakage during operation. For flange joints if leakage is found it means there is some problem in
bolt tightening or gasket selection. So remedies shall be again deciding torque values for flange joint
and reconsideration of gasket. Note that Bolting (SA 193-B7) are strengthen enough to provide enough
torque on joint withouth bolt failure.
3. In Pvelite why same flange is showing failure during hydro condition check? Because pvelite is
considering 1.3 times design pressure will get apply directly on joint. But practically that is not the

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Page 39 of 390

case. Hydro test pressure always apply in stages during test. Eventually they reach to 1.3 times design
pressure in steps and then again reduces it to „test pressure / 1.3‟ for further joint integrity check.

Mitul Patel
Dear all,

Latest Shell DEP for Heat exhanger calls for verification of the design of Appendix-2 flange
with ASME PCC-1(Guidelines for Pressure Boundary Bolted Flange Joint Assembly)
Appendix O.

What exatly we do in this appendix means what is purpose of this?

What are ASME PCC-1 points to be taken care for the design of Appendix-2 Flange?

Please advice.
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 8, 2012 at 3:45pm

Hemant Solanki ASME PCC-1 is the standard for bolted flanges. It gives overall operational and
maintainance aspects related to flanges. It also gives troubleshooting guide for flange operators about
what to do in case of leakage in different circumstances. It also provides torque values which gives leak
proof joint.
As far as design is concerned it says that design flange joint for 50,000 PSI prestress. pre stress is the
stress value which is given to flange joint for leakproof joint before putting it into operation. Flange
should be strengthen enough to take this much loads. do not worry about bolting as SA 193 B7 bolts
are very good in strength. To take care this in design simply increase allowable bolt stress to 50,000
PSI. Due to this gasket seating load Wm2 will govern and bolt load W will be equals to Wm2 which is
equal to Ab X Sb (50000 PSI). At this load your flange thickness should be safe. This kind of design
condition I came to know while working in my recent project. Only thing is our client has specified
40000 PSI as prestress load condition.
I think Shell DEP wants to take care of this load condition in design.
I have soft copy of PCC-1 with me. If you want I will share in this forum by next week.
September 8, 2012 at 8:23pm · Like

Mitul Patel Thanks for your valuable post.I think this is new requirement coming up now a
days….September 8, 2012 at 9:47pm via mobile · Like

Purav Desai Thanks Mitul for posting new requirements.

When I referred ASME PCC-1 Appendix-O, I found that it doesn‟t ask for flange design for 50000 psi
bolt pre-stress. Appendix-O mainly concentrates on the below issues w.r.t. assembly bolt stress;

(a) Sufficient Gasket Stress to Seal the Joint
(b) Damage to the Gasket
(c) Damage to Bolts
(d) Damage to the Flange

Considering above aspects, Appendix O provides various formulas to determine stresses to cross verify

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we design the flange for operating & seating condition. But i believe Purav Desai has given gud descprition…. May be Wm1 will govern your flange design then prestress load condition. SB-637 (Alloy N07718).September 16. 2... i think endnduser require the "Assemby Bolt Torque" which they can apply during the course of maintenace.Target assembly bolt torque to have leak proof flange joint.it is not a site requirement shell DEP ask just after completion of design this need to be check and if it doesnot satisfy given conditon than redesign the flange.gasket & rigidity.If all condition satisfy we need to calculate torque value.. Max. By Appendix O. to allow 345 MPa (50 ksi) or greater target bolt prestress.. Section(b) above talks about checking gasket for crushing. September 17. etc. we also design for prestress. considering design of non standard flanges as per ASME Sec. 2012 at 7:32am · Like Ankur Gupta KBR has also the requirement of bolt prestress as 50.bolt.With this stress & bolt load we check flange. Mitul Patel Hemant I think all aspects of this appendix will not be satisfy with just increasing allowable stress of bolt.. 2011. Pvelite will calculate prestress bolt load as W= Sa X Ab which will be the governing case. W.3 (c) Employ and design for high strength bolting [e.i. VIII Div. 2012 at 6:38pm · Like Hemant Solanki Very simple to check this requirement in Pvelite. let me check.In short as mentioned by purav in prestress we are going above bolt allowable stress so we need to check gasket bolt and flange are safe or not…September 17. 1 App. 345 Mpa or 276 Mpa. 2012 at 8:26pm · Like Mitul Patel I was just reading PCC-1 there are so many factor which needs to be taken from the gasket supplier. so at KBR .. SA-193 B7. and flanges are also checked for rotation (rigidity index). bolt area is determined based on bolt allowable stress (not the yield stress).September 9. In Pvelite while modeling non- standard flange. “Applying ASME PCC-1-2010 Appendix O to Joint Lifecycle Management ".g. Brown.Which will effect the calculation of PCC. we need to contact gasket manufacturer.e.000 psi. Further.E-mail me on mitulpatel@ltcis. (c) and (d) conditions.September 9. that is still not covered in ASME so designed has to take care of same while design…. For ASME PCC-I requirement. Just click on bolting material allowable stress menu and edit bolt allowable stress at room temperature Sa equals to prestress value i. 2012 at 9:27pm · Like Mihir Jha Mitul Patel Could you please provide the exact requirement stated in shell DEP? Appendix O is required by the site person during maintenance. 2012 at 7:16pm via mobile · Like Mitul Patel While searching some information on above topic I came across following ASMEarticle. And run this file. Target assembly Gasket Stress are to be selected by end user as per their experience and also it vary from site to site.As mentioned earlier few data needs to be taken from gasket manufacturer.Mihir. Page 40 of 390 flange design.ltindia.Facebook .e. bolt and gasket for (a). 2012 at 10:39pm · Like Hemant Solanki According to Appendix-P of PCC-1 Clause P-4.com. Only caution that when design pressure is more before checking into prestress condition just check design as per normal design condition. For some data. Permissible bolt stress. and Min.September 9.As mentioned by purav & hemant we decide bolt prestress which is higher than the design stress.. SA-193 B16.Its not so complicated provided we have all data.. For example..There is reference of WRC 528 bulletin if anybody is having please share. I believe except (b) above. Static Equipment Group . Mitul Patel Hemant Solanki & Ankur Gupta please share any sample calculation or spreadsheet for prestress check for the appendix 2 flange as per appendix-O of ASME PCC-1..]. we design the flange.

... MD. But practically that is not the case. ASME.3' for further joint integrity check.. It means equipment will go through this loading not more than 3-4 times during entire equipment life.. please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this email and any attachments permanently from your system... 2012 at 12:51am · Like Vishal Patil MOre to the points above... It is solely intended for the person(s) named above.. We need to ensure Static Equipment Group . In Pvelite why same flange is showing failure during hydro condition check? Because pvelite is considering 1. If you are not an intended recipient. USA.org/Articles/2011/June/Solving_Puzzle_Bolted_Joints. Hydro test pressure always apply in stages during test. Note that Bolting (SA 193-B7) are strengthen enough to provide enough torque on joint without bolt failure. 2012 at 8:40am · Like Mihir Jha Above link will give you the reason for applying ASME PCC-1. disclosure. copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. September 18.. Eventually they reach to 1.... Page 41 of 390 Proceedings of the ASME PVP 2011. September 17.asme. then actual point will not be served.. 1st of all Hydrotest is a transient load condition.Facebook . 2012 at 11:44am via Email Shanker Shukla Hydro test also acts as a stress relieving and regain the molecular structures in line because of the weldings ( to strengthen the material )…September 19... This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. 1. Not more than 1 hour. 3.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 17.. 2012 at 9:46pm · Like Mihir Jhahttp://memagazine. Another point is what is purpose of hydrotest ? To check integrity of joints so that there will not be any leakage during operation. 2.cfm September 18. if we do the design for test case then we are over-designing the equipment. use. That is also for less time.3 times design pressure in steps and then again reduces it to 'test pressure / 1.3 times design pressure will get apply directly on joint. any reading.. PVP2010-57453.. So remedies shall be again deciding torque values for flange joint and reconsideration of gasket.I am trying to find out on the internet . For flange joints if leakage is found it means there is some problem in bolt tightening or gasket selection.Hydrotest is the test case.If anyone find the same please upload... If you are not the intended recipient. 2012 at 8:41am · Like Hemant Solanki ASME point of view for flange rigidity in hydrocase I would like to elaborate ASME point of view while coming to this decision... Baltimore.

heydari and H.. IF tank dia is big then better to go for rafter support instead of truss type. Sanjay Rathod Roof Support is based on type of roof and size of tank. design requirements as per Code. Sazeh consultant. construction and cost. Page 42 of 390 that there will not be any leak during operating case.scribd.com/doc/107045904/Tank-Basic Tank Basic www.com Static Equipment Group . truss support.September 20..3 times the design pressure if we are going to design for test pressure then we need to multiply 1. if we design equipment for hydrotest then the strain hardening will not occur…. Again fixed roof can be supported by cloumn support. Test pressure is 1. 2012 at 4:52pm Darshan Rajput likes this. Can anybody share the basis on which type of roof support is selected for storage Tanks? If possible. the service.r. (plz refer thr article "improve selection and sizing of storage tank" by A. we can save cost. page 95) September 27. published in Hydrocarbon processing.Facebook . 2012 at 11:58am via mobile · Like Mihir Jha http://www.t.scribd. 2012 at 5:09pm · Like Arpita Shah refer brownell young book September 27. rafter support. can be self supprted roof or rafter supported. also include advantage of one over other w. September 26. And another case is that Hydrotest is inderectly a strain hardening case for the equipment. 2012 at 8:23am via mobile · Like Prakash Rathi type of tank (based on roof structure) is selected based on the TVP (true vapor pressure) which is based on the flash point.. Like · · Follow Post · Share · September 26. 2012 at 9:02pm · Like Purav Desai Hello Friends.3 to test pressure which is not the case. if corrosive service we can go with self support roof. Genarlly fixed roof tanks having small dia. kalat jari.Also service can play the role. edition october 2006.

Here actual provided thk for extended portion is 170- 26=144mm. For storage tank on what basis roof supports are selected i.e Rh and E value to be considered for flange design) for bolt size above 4" or M100 as i am designing an exchanger having size of 2500mm and pressure of 125 bar and same is not passing with even M100 bolt.. Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 8. September 27. Refer TEMA Figure F-3. Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 2. whether we should add the same in extended portion (uhx-9) thickness or we should add the same in main tubesheet thickness (UHX-12. Ankur Gupta which bolt material u r using?. 2012 at 11:14am via mobile Ankur Gupta likes this. Please help. machining allowance shall be considered on dimension R2.October 8. In this case tubesheet thickness is required to be increased due to consideration of machining allowance? Please share ur views.. If specification calls for m/c allowance on gasket surface.. For example if R2 is 7 mm for 4. 2012 at 2:44pm · Like Viral Patel Dear all.Facebook . Now the final thickness of extnded portion shall not be less than that calculated by UHX. Consider a case where tubesheet thk required as per uhx-12 is 169 mm and extended portion requirement is say 50mm.5 mm gasket then after adding machining allowance of 6 mm it shall be 13 mm. 2012 at 9:38am · Like Viral Patel Hi friends. But my main doubt is.14). 2012 at 4:08pm via mobile Purav Desai No need to increase the tubesheet thickness in all cases.e. I have an doubt regarding maching allowance provided on gasket surface of heat exchanger tubesheet. Page 43 of 390 Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site. October 9. Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 9:23pm · Like Purav Desai Hi Viral.. 2012 at 4:25pm · Like · Remove Preview Purav Desai Friends Thanks for sharing your experience. I think there is no need to design flanged joint for such a high pressure and large diameter exchanger.13. Can anyone provide me the root area and dimension (i. how to select Column supports or truss supports for roof? September 28. Instead it is better to opt for high pressure special closure exchanger (TEMA “D” Type).

for nen... 2012 at 7:02am · Like Viral Patel I have worked on the exchanger where i have worked on both welded diaphram and lip seal gasket.. 2012 at 12:32pm via mobile · Like Viral Patel I have gone through the same but that is modified DEU.. tube-tubesheet joint can be accesible and same is possible with this configuration as we are getting almost 1700mm opening for access……October 9. There was flour specification and it calls for welded diaphram gasket at channel cover with C type front head for lethal service on channel side and for lethal service on shell side lip seal gasket was required to be used on shell side…. i could have given u the drawings but because of some patent issue. 2012 at 10:19pm · Like · 1 Viral Patel Thanks ankur and purav for your guidance…….. but if you want to do roding of tube without removig channel side which is necessary then your revese flange inside projection may be obstruction. I have gone through the database available here.'' as per my opinion.October 11. but yes i can tell u what i have learnt……October 10. actually by mistake i typed Lip seal.. 2012 at 10:10am · Like · 2 Viral Patel Ankur. 2012 at 10:50pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Ankur & Viral. Datasheet specifies SA 193 B7 material for bolt. Page 44 of 390 You will hardly find proven example of conventional flanged joint for such a high pressure service.i cannot... ask utkarshbhai……. As per my experience..October 9. 2012 at 10:37am via mobile · Like Purav Desai as I remember there is one such exchanger in qpg project. Puravbhai. check that.you can use reverse with lip seal keeping access opening for tube -tube sheet joint……October 9.Facebook .. The higher the bolt size more difficult to handle & obtain a leak proof joint. 2012 at 7:56pm · Like Chetan Patel Viral with reverse flange u can design front end . But i have designed that exchanger with reverse flange at front and rear end inplace of conventional flanges. 2012 at 2:37pm · Like Ankur Gupta Viral Patel for this high pressure. & yes partition box will used instead of Plate. 2012 at 1:58pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As per me YES……. But my question is " can we go for reverse flange for NEN configuration. Can we go with this configuration for NEN type of heat exchanger?..October 9.October 9. with m&y =0. Purav. i have experience of using "lip seal instead of any other gasket .October 10.In KBR i am dealing with high pressure exchangers. With such configuration welded diaphram gasket is preferred at channel cover…. In exchanger design it is recommended to limit stud bolt size to M72 in order to make joint safe and operable. there is no such exchanger with such high diameter and pressure as you said correctly. 2012 at 1:12pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . it should be Welded diaphragm. 2012 at 8:51am via mobile · Like Ankur Gupta Purav Desai Viral Patel Yes purav has rightly said.. please check the cleaning requirement with process……. for such exchangers there will be a pass paritition box instead of conventional pass partition. The case described by you also exceeds the TEMA limit for diamter x pressure (10000 inxpsi)……October 9. i don't know whether it is correct or not..October 10.October 9. I have found a solution .

jha2@gmail. Rohitash Singh Panwar As per my opinion..edu/hartford/users/papers/engr/ernesto/bakerj5/Project/Supplementary%20 Material/Code/MSS%20SP-44-2006%20Steel%20Pipeline%20Flanges. To limit MAWP / Static Equipment Group .47.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 10. Page 45 of 390 Mihir Jha What is the difference between ASME B16.since RF pad is not subjected to any internal pressure.ewp.. If nozzle fails. It is on very similar line to ASME B 16.5 and MSS SP-44 for size of flange greater than 2 inch? If any one have the copy of MSS SP-44... In that case after designed life cycle vessel fails first…. It is not cost effective design….... Meaning of this is we should design nozzle strong enough which can sustain atleast MAWP of vessel. please mail me at mihir. So We always design the nozzle for MAWP of component of vessel which MAWP can be derived exactly.What is fundamental behind this. 2012 at 4:22pm · Like · Remove Preview Mitul Patel Most of client has requirement that "nozzle reinforcement shall not limit MAP or MAWP". i think that there no actual method for calculating nozzle MAWP becos same is dependent upon so many factors such as pad thickness.edu/hartford/users/papers/engr/ernesto/bakerj5/Project/Supplem entary%20Material/C www. 2012 at 1:04am via mobile · Like · 1 Chetan Raval it should not become that due to some weaker nozzle whole vessel becomes scrap.ewp.What will be problem if it is limited by nozzle reinforcement. the whole vessel becomes scrap.rpi..October 10.. 2012 at 4:22pm · Like Purav Desai MSS SP 44 2006 Editionhttp://www.etc and hence MAWP of nozzle is calculated by reverse iteration so we can't get exact value.Facebook .October 11.October 11. It can be referred for flanges over size more than 10"……October 15. This may be the reason for client requirement…October 10. 2012 at 6:55pm via mobile · Like Viral Patel Mitul. So client gives requirement that nozzle shall nt limit MAWP.rpi.rpi. external loading.. Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 15..Please share your views.so client want us to calculate the MAWP for the components which are subjected to pressure..ewp.5 on Steel Pipe Flanges and Flanged Fittings. nozzle thk... 2012 at 7:25pm via mobile · Like Chetan Raval when nozzle MAWP is smaller than vessel MAWP.. 2012 at 2:15pm Purav Desai The Manufacturers Standardization Society (MSS) originally developed this Standard Practice (SP) particularly in sizes larger than those covered by ANSI Standard B16.October 11.October 15.it just provide reinforcement to nozzle. 2012 at 7:41pm · Like Hemant Solanki Reinforcement is the area which we provides after removing material for opening....com. So it is the combined effect of shell with RF pad which resist stresses at nozzle openings.edu. 2012 at 6:43pm via mobile Mukesh K Prajapati likes this. 2012 at 1:07am via mobile · Like Bikas Paikray I Agree with u chetan….local shell thk. nozzle fails first rather than vessel..pdf http://www.

) For Division 1 vessels per UG-99(b): PT=1. So while designing nozzles with MAWP as pressure it should not be happened that we are designing for MAWP which is limiting by RF pad (of thickness less than shell thickness).2.October 16. It is of no use. Not less than that for email limiting MAWP of equipment pressure parts….3 MAWP (S/ST) b.pdf….11) a. Otherwise to take pressure loading RF pad always have company of connecting shell. 2012 at 10:23am · Like Hemant Nikam REFER ARAMCO CLAUSE AS BELOW.http://www. 2012 at 6:26pm · Like Purav Desai Refer the attached article. 16. 2012 at 4:57pm via mobile Davoud Niyati Ammonia works in low temperature.. has the same criteria .October 11.com/downloads/ammoniastorage.. If it is satisfying UG-37 requirement than it is always fine.) For Division 2 vessels per 8. I do not think that RF pad of thickness less than shell thickness will get fail. .1: Greater of: i) PT = 1.ie. Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 4. 2012 at 2:27pm · Like Mitul Patel Static Equipment Group . So such requirement is there only to ensure that we are designing for MAWP which is governing by pressure chambers only…. MAWP BASIS ARMCO.3.Facebook .. 2012 at 7:03pm · Like Hemant Nikam LIQUID AMMONIA IS UNDER LETHAL SERVICE GROUP IF IT LEAKAGE IT WILL HAZARDOUS FOR HUMAN BEING SINGLE WALL IF IT TANK DAMAGE BULGE IT IS DANGEROUS SO TO STRENGTHEN THE SHELL WE CONSIDERED DOUBLE WALL…. 2012 at 10:29am via · Like Arpita Shah Why double wall type storage tank selected specially for ammonia service tank? What are the special advanges? Share your views..October 4.25 MAWP (ST/ S)………………October 16. RF pad will fail if there is problem is weld joint at nozzle opening.. The main reason of using double wall tank is Safety.October 16.uhdeindia. and need a thicker insulation to isolate ammonia from the ambient……October 4. 2012 at 10:24am · Like Hemant Solanki Nikam. Page 46 of 390 MAP by shell means to do so we have to provide RF pad thickness atleast equals to connecting shell thickness which is limiting MAWP / MAP.. As far as MAWP is concerned we can limit it upto design pressure of equipment.October 16.Test pressure measured at the top of the vessel shall be: (32-SAMSS-004 Para. 2012 at 8:40pm · Like Hemant Nikam THAT IMPACT WHEN HYDROTEST IS BASED ON UG99b. In ASME codes also the same hydro pressure is mentioned.SO MAWP SHOULD NOT GOVERNING BY NOZZLE FLANGE….43 MAWP ii) PT = 1.. It has explained each aspects of using double wall storage tank for ammonia in detail.

Here ASME has given application of U-2(g) instead of UG-37 because. Page 47 of 390 When to consider pressure thrust in WRC local load analysis?As per pvelite june 2001 newsletter refered in pvelite help it depends on type of support arrangement of piping either it is anchored or expansion loop. So it is better to ask piping to analyse piping line with anchored supports so that unnecessarily static do not consider the pressure thrust into design email …. 2012 at 7:46am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki . Tr should be thickness based on hoop stress.please share your views. This will be the concern when H/D ratio is more and internal pressure is not high. 2012 at 10:33pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel Either we go for conservative approch & apply pressure thrust in all nozzles or for each joint we need to ask piping person type of support arrangement. 2012 at 7:02pm via mobile Hemant Solanki In that Paper it is written that WRC-368 shall be used when Pressure thrust is considered.Facebook . Pvelite is taking care of the same. Anchored piping will reduce pressure thrust effect and Piping with bellow will give more pressure thrust on nozzle. Pvelite has that option. It is very interesting topic and need debate…. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 18.I spoke to piping person he told it is considered when they give us actual load on nozzles when it is above specification loads. But when longitudinal combined stresses will govern it is the moment of inertia which shall be adequate at shell courses opening.. That's why ASME has asked to decide it according to any acceptable engineering method.Does any one has idea that this specification loads already including pressure thrust. Specially in columns with less internal pressure when bottom courses are governed by longitudinal combined stresses. But as per code interpretation VIII-1-01-119.October 18. U-2(g) (means any acceptable engineering method) shall be applied in case when longitudinal stresses are governed. This is regarding UG-37 calculation of nozzles when its mounting shell thickness is governed by longitudinal stresses. company ask for the only WRC 368 calculation for nozzle with blind flanges where there are no piping loads but pressure thrust exits……October 19. So it is also acceptable as defined in U-2(g). Even though Pvelite is using UG-37 but it takes Tr according to longitudinal combined loading. Information about 'tr' used in UG-37 Calculation for combined loading Dear All.what we do we enter local load and tick pressure thrust to have combine effect.I heard that some engg. 2012 at 7:22pm via · Like Avedhesh Gupta I thought pipe support type will only cause increase or decrease in nozzle loads at the junction and pressure thrust is due to the amount of pressure drop/resistance that is realized by associated piping.This way it has been taken care but when we do not recieve real loads from piping than what to do. UG-37 is for Area replacement for pressure loading when hoop stress will govern. In such cases it is required to consider Tr according to combined loading.October 18. Static Equipment Group .WRC 368 gives pressure thrust guideline but it does not consider local load that s way pvelite has given two different input pressure thrust. As per UG-37.

. Is it acceptable for Section VIII. Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 27." what additional requirements apply? Static Equipment Group ..Can I use value of 1 if vessel is not in cyclic service & we do not require to evalute peak stress for the fatigue analysis…October 19.5 Flanges Question : An ASME B16.5 or B16.. Question : If the answer to the above question is "no. There is one tab for wrc 368.G. Mitul Patel Dear all.August 21. If anybody is having the same please share. 2012 at 9:10pm via mobile Rupesh Ubale I suppose stress concentration factor are used when there is fatigue or cyclic loading. 2012 at 11:06pm · Like Mitul Patel Recently I came across TOTAL company's specification where in they ask to calculate SCF(stress concentration factor) from PD5500 app. Can we use stress concentration factor in wrc 297 module as 1 inplace of by default value of 2.5 or ASME B16. Pvelite help refer some coade news letter published in 2001..can anybody tell in which case it shall be used.when fatigue SCF is normally calculated & then applied.Facebook . Doing so we can avoid insert plates and increase in thickness in most of the case.5 or B16. Page 48 of 390 Refer attached file.47 pressure-temperature ratings of these standards without performing any additional design calculations as allowed by UG-44? Answer : No.otherwise you must have it as 1. 2012 at 10:22pm · Like Hemant Solanki Modified ASME B16.47 raised-face blind flange (or a blind flange machined to the dimensional requirements of B16.... Division 1 construction to use the B16..25 Pvelite help says value shall be between 1 to 3. Follow steps mentioned in that file. It will then take Tr as per combined loading in UG-37 calculation of Nozzles attached to shell where longitudinal combined stresses are governing. Compress has also implemented the same.47) has its center portion drilled with an array of holes to accept immersion heater elements that are attached by welding or brazing..

the reinforcement requirements of UG-39 must be satisfied. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 22. Page 49 of 390 Answer :The design method of bolted circular flat heads is covered by paragraph UG-34(c)(2). In a project. If not.Mihir Jha statement. vertical ladders are applied to storage tanks with height less than 8 meters. This is the essence of Question 1 above. I did not find any fixed relation between height and dia. then reinforcement calculations per UG-39 are required. pipe fitting. hence we are going by caged ladder inspite of length. When openings that do not satisfy the provisions of UG-39(a) are present in flat heads. which tell the selection of spiral vs vertical ladder. project spec calls for spiral ladder if tank height is more than 6m irrespective of dia. Unfortunately. 2012 at 7:38am Purav Desai The more appropriate question would be what is the limitation on the use of vertical ladder for storage tanks? Ladders or stairways are used to access top of storage tank and its selection depends on the size of tank. The rules of UG-34 cover the design of blind flange absent the holes. As per my experience. I also do not get any spec. Question 2 addresses the design of the modified blind flange. This means that the pressuretemperature ratings published in the reference standard may be used without any additional design consideration. we had a tank with 3m dia and 8. finally we Static Equipment Group . Depending on the size and spacing of the holes. 2012 at 4:19pm via Email Mihir Jha For API tank. Explanation: Flanges. 2012 at 5:41pm · Like Kajasakthivel Narayanan Yes I agree Mr. please share……. Above this limit spiral stairway is preferred and applied considering human safety.October 18. Once the flange is sized.Facebook . 2012 at 2:52pm · Like Mihir Jha Purav Desai There are two variable one is height and another is diameter.October 18. For spiral stairway we require more space. purchased to a reference standard in accordance with UG-11 are acceptable for use in Section VIII-1 construction. For tank if dia is greater but height is less then also we can't go for spiral stairway. In this case.2m height where angle between start and end of spiral ladder exceeds 360 deg.. and the component must be designed in accordance with Code rules. etc. the dimensional standard's ratings no longer apply.. UG-39(a) may provide an exemption from reinforcement calculations. One exception to this rule is when the flange or fitting is modified or altered. In case of column we have less diameter. when can we say that spiral staircase should be applied and to what minimum tank diameter? Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 17. It would be very difficult for a normal person to climb a straight vertical ladder of more than 10 meters…. formula (2). the small openings are evaluated. If any one have any guidline.

I am also quite sure that such small tank would be shop fabricated. 2012 at 9:32pm · Like Purav Desai Dear Kaja. Sw is lesser of Sa and St. where Sw is lesser of Sa (tube allowable) and St (Tubesheet allowable). Further I found Technip spec. Please take a note of following point while designing tube to tubesheet welds as per UW- 20 for Cladded tubesheet. for the case explained by you. 2012 at 3:37am · Like Hemant Solanki Weld calculation as per UW-20 for Caldded Tubesheet Dear Friends. Now for cladded tubesheet tubes are welded on clad portion. while checking weld strength as per UW-20. For strength welded tube to tubesheet with clad tubesheet. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 23. 2012 at 11:14am via Email Hemant Solanki why we commonly use only two saddles in horizontal pressure vessel ? as using more than two saddles make pressure statically indeterminate both internally and externally what is the mean of statically indeterminate ?? Static Equipment Group . such cases are very rare. As per UW-20. for similar metallurgy condition. Sa is tube allowable stress. Please note that this need not be a problem for SS tubes welded on SS tubesheet cladding i. by calculating actual sw. Page 50 of 390 raised this issue with client and client agreed to use vertical ladder with mid-landing platform……October 22. in DSS tubes with SS cladding or Incolloy with SS tubes etc. Which is merely not required.Facebook . When we talk @ storage tanks. Specially when tubesheet cladding and tubes are of different metallurgy. This ratio is used to calculate groove weld size ar from UW-20 formula. i. Now St which is tubesheet allowable stress shall be lesser of base metal or cladding metal allowable. and accordingly indicate groove weld size 'ar' required.October 23. following needs to be taken care. Chiyoda Spec and Daelim internal specification. it will be called more as vertical vessel instead of tank irrespective of its design code.e. Views are most welcome on this topic.e. Now to only take this effect if you modify tubesheet allowable as per cladding allowable stress in pvelite then it will unnecessarily increase the tubesheet thickness. Sw is allowable stress of weld. fw which is equal to Sa/Sw. I suggest we should manually check weld size ar . all the three specification specifies only height as a limitation to select vertical ladder or spiral stairway for tank….

. Yashwant Yadav and 2 others like this.November 3. Hemant Solanki While doing this just ensure that you tick mark „use full bolt load (Sa x Ab) option in flange design menu of Pvelite. 2012 at 3:47pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Thanks Madhu for nice explanation…. Inshort dead legs means and low points where chances of liquid accumulation is possible…….Facebook . email October 30. 2012 at 9:48am via Email Shreya Dhawde. 2012 at 12:11pm Madhusudhan Shetty since the liquid drain (HC condensates) needs to be routed to the ground flare from different equipments. This is mentioned in spec. Pvelite will calculate prestress bolt load as W= Sa X Ab which will be the governing case. And run this file. May be Wm1 will govern your flange design then prestress load condition. there will be explosion scenario at the locations wherever flame will come in contact with HC Condensates. Just click on bolting material allowable stress menu and edit bolt allowable stress at room temperature Sa equals to prestress value i. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 17. 345 Mpa or 276 Mpa.number of equations Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 25. degree of indeterminacy = number of unknowns . Only caution that when design pressure is more before checking into prestress condition just check design as per normal design condition. Sachin Pawar. 2012 at 8:24pm · Like Purav Desai Static Equipment Group . In Pvelite while modeling non-standard flange. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 2.. for Ground flare. 2012 at 11:42am via Email Shreya Dhawde likes this. What is the meaning of "dead legs". 2012 at 11:11am via · Like Mihir Jha Complete drainage through low points without disassembly of piping to avoid dead legs.e. HC condensate accumulation at any location in the line cannot be tolerated since if flame travels back through the pipeline (due to pressure drop) .November 3. Page 51 of 390 when number of unknowns exceeds the number of equations to find horizontal and vertical forces this type of condition is called statically indeterminate what is the degree of indeterminacy ?? the number of unknowns that are more than the number of equations are called degree of indeterminacy. Hemant Solanki Prestress flange check in Pvelite Very simple to check this requirement in Pvelite.

right??. Avedhesh Gupta probably yes and you need to take care in selection of media. The tallest column was painted with different color. May be on very tall column which sometime might comes on structure may require it. 2012 at 7:25pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki No. 2012 at 7:10pm Kiran Gawade.. 2012 at 10:00am Abdul Rasyid MK likes this. N2 purge will be a safe bet... Externally coated surface may not need but internal surface may always need rust prevention methods even if it is coated……November 6.just like stack. I observed another interesting point in the same plant.. But I think on stacks and chimney we should check. 2012 at 11:39pm · Like Static Equipment Group . I also think so…. Ruby Sahu this is aviation color code. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 5.November 5..Facebook . 2012 at 7:20pm · Like Hemant Solanki Yes.. Shreya Dhawde..November 5. But I think during day time to highlight such structure this color coding is best option…... 2012 at 7:32pm · Like Mihir Jha One of the vessel is internally coated with phenolic epoxy. I did not observe such color coding for columns in refineries. Page 52 of 390 Dear Members. Do this vessel need to provide "Silica Gel/VCI/VPI" for internal rust prevention during shipment or storage? Like · · Follow Post · Share · November 5. Vaibhav Mittal and 2 others like this...November 5. 2012 at 7:22pm · Like Purav Desai right but did u ever paint column for aviation color?..November 5. For flight attendant one light always there in heighted equipment.

5 flange extended portion minimum thickness should be calculated. 2012 at 8:11pm via mobile Purav Desai I think we have to increase the thickness because the resisiting thickness for bolt load would be after the collar bolt step…. Page 53 of 390 Mitul Patel Dear all. 2012 at 8:58am Kiran Gawade. The collar bolt step shall be added to minimum calculated thickness…. the total bundle pull load will reduce by an amount of friction factor. mostly we apply 1. X Weight. Rohitash Singh Panwar Frictional Force = Frictioal Coeff X Weight. can friction between bundle and shell be considered in calculating bundle pulling load? Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 26. Frictional force will act only when there is internal force like expansion or contraction. 2012 at 7:59am · Like Hemant Solanki As per UHX-9. 2012 at 2:03pm · Like · 2 Static Equipment Group . Please share your views. There are very rare chances where wind/seismic or other cases described by MOSS book govern. Please comment if i am wrong….5 x bundle weight x 0. Please note that during pulling of bundle the sliding plate and base plate act as an unit. 2012 at 9:47am via · Like Mihir Jha Hemant Solanki I agree. It shall be without collar extended portion of thickness.One can argue that it is neither code or specification requirement. Mihir Jha 1. Is it required to increase extended portion of thickness due to provision of collar bolt step hole on bolt holes. as per MOSS book. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 6.5 x bundle weight.4.Facebook .. Further for removable bundle exchangers.November 7..November 7. Friction between tube bundle and shell is not considered while calculating bundle pulling force. Others please share your view in this regard. 2012 at 11:47am · Like Purav Desai Dear Friends.Please share your views on the same do technically it is required to increase thickness.October 26. Mukesh K Prajapati and Shreya Dhawde like this. It is not as u mentioned Weight + Frictional Coeff. However.5 is the factor similar to impact factor used for lifting lug. If we consider steel to steel friction factor as 0. While checking anchor bolt design for removable bundle heat exchangers for bundle pulling condition. Here due to friction between sliding strips/shoe and shell. email November 7.4 then the bundle pulling load would be 1.. sliding strips/shoe are provided to ensure the smooth assembly and removal of tube bundle from shell.

October 31..scribd.1.5 times is applied because when you are removing the bundle after long service.. Such assurance would typically require the addition of a sign posted on the exchanger to indicate bundle removal by an extractor only.so for conservative design of anchor bolt and pulling eye bolt we shall not reduce force by multiplying mu factor….2 Bundle pull load shall be applied at the center of the bundle.000 lb (9. 2012 at 12:59pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview Static Equipment Group . the bundle pull design load need not exceed the total weight of the exchanger.8... even while loading the bundles in side the exchanges with the help of crane or bundle extractor chances of jerk can not be avoided. Comment: If it can be assured that the bundles will be removed strictly by the use of a bundle extractor attaching directly to the exchanger (such that the bundle pull force is not transferred to the structure or foundation). saddles as well as foundation for bundle pulling condition. I found interesting criteria given in PIP standard (PIP STC01015) for design of anchor bolts..8.0 kN).0 times the weight of the removable tube bundle but not less than 2..October 30. 1.about friction force.com Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site. 2012 at 9:31pm via mobile · Like Vishal Patil No. But how @ that case when bundle is being removed using extractor?.0 kN). If the total weight of the exchanger is less than 2.3 The portion of the bundle pull load at the sliding end support shall equal the friction force or half the total bundle pull load.we can not consider mu as 0. 1.. 2012 at 3:40pm via mobile · Like Mitul Patel This was discussed in morning tool box and conclusion was that we shall not consider friction coefficient because after few years operation there will be fouling on tube bundle.5 will take care of everything...scribd.. http://www.October 30.5 will take care of this all. whicheveris less.1.my interpretation is wrong. 4. 4..thanks for correcting me……October 26. its not required. Page 54 of 390 Rohitash Singh Panwar Mihir u r right.1 Structures and foundations supporting heat exchangers subject to bundle pulling shall be designed for a horizontal load equal to 1.com/doc/47628945/PIP-STC01015-Structural-Design-Criteria PIP STC01015 Structural Design Criteria www.1. most of the time a jerk is required to disassemble the bundle from gasket faces if the jack screws not helping. 2012 at 6:53pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai thanks mitul. The remainder of the bundle pull load shall be resisted at the anchor end support. the structure or foundation need not be designed for the bundle pull force. 1.October 30.1. 4. 2012 at 11:01pm · Like Purav Desai Dear Friends.8 Bundle Pull Load (Bp) 4...Facebook .8.000 lb (9..4 for fouled contact surface....

....Facebook . I was quite surprized to see that..November 10.Few of my friend climbed on the floating roof tank with out permission of plant person.. 2012 at 1:27pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . Fixed and sliding saddle in combination takes all the load..November 9.. 2012 at 7:56pm · Like Purav Desai Dear Members. Page 55 of 390 Akil Kazi To my understanding we should not consider the friction factor since during bundle pulling sliding saddle will not move relative to fixed saddle hence no relative motion for sliding plate.!.November 5. 2012 at 10:28pm via mobile · Like Manish Shukla Also wrong dcs reading would trigger some other event…November 5.. Ruby Sahu what is the purpose of CCTV camera over there?.CCTV will help in this way also….. Basheer Mohamed and 5 others like this..November 5... During one of the vendor visit i saw CCTV camera mounted on a distillation column in a process plant. 2012 at 8:27pm · Like Manish Shukla I think it iş for verifying actual vısual reading of pressure and temperature gauge versus DCS reading because no body would like to climb here…November 5. 2012 at 7:06pm Arpita Shah. 2012 at 8:15pm · Like Basheer Mohamed really interesting.In reliance team from mumbai also can see footage of this cameras.Imagine any worker fall down due to inhale of wet H2S or any fire incident. 2012 at 10:32pm via mobile · Like Mitul Patel I have seen similar CCTV camera in Reliance Jamnagar Refnery..It is also required from the security & saftey point of view.... Kiran Gawade...... Please correct if wrong….Thery were caught in CCTV camera. Does anybody come across top support requirement on column for CCTV Camera? Like · · Follow Post · Share · November 5.

if anchor bolts supply is in Vendor‟s scope then it is required to specify anchor bolt length for procurement. Here also static department can not decide whole length. based in USA. . Depending on this we can find out the total enchor bolt length required. When anchor bolts procurement is in Civil scope then it is not a question for Static to decide its length as we are not using anchor bolt length in any of our design…. What i can summarise is as below. It is common in Hydro treating(NHT. Now length of anchor bolt below concrete is entirely depends on Civil foundation calculation. Thanks for informing. Still we should ask Civil for their anchor bolt standard drawing where exact consideration will be covered. 2012 at email 9:09am via · Like · 1 Purav Desai uploaded a file. Recently I came across a new terminology called "TEXAS TOWERS". DHDT) plants. Civil calculates how much is the length required below concrte for better foundation strength and stability of equipment. The special design of those heat exchangers ensures that minimum heat loss occurs in order to minimise the fuel consumption of the furnaces. Bt is there any thumb rule or methodology 4 a quick calc 4 length. I didn't get information @ its name "TEXAS TOWER". net gas compressor. We can only estimate length of anchor bolt which will be above ground.November 12. one of the main competitors for UOP in this field is IFP from France. It is first time we are hearing this term used for any exchanger. Only found the following article. Please share some details if available. According to foundation type considered by Civil and according to loading data supplied by Static. . A CCR typically contains a feed/effluent heat exchanger (Texas Tower or Packinox). . I have also searched it on net. .4 reactors. recycle gas compressor and a stabiliser column. 2012 at 5:03pm Hemant Solanki Purav. Still when anchor bolt procurement is in Vendor‟s scope at that time it is also required to forward anchor bolth standard civil drawing to Vendor. General thumb rule is anchor chair total height (including site welded washer) + 2 nuts height + 2 to 3 threads kept for better tightening purpose. The Continuous Catalytic Reforming unit or better known as CCR Platformer is licensed by UOP. Generally in skirt supported vessel design we calculate d dia of anchor bolt n qty. . It is used for vertical feed/effluent exchanger which is commonly found near reactor. other technology vendors have copied theconcept. 2012 at 9:14pm via mobile Hemant Solanki Krunal. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 11. 4 furnaces.Universal Oil Products. More recently. . Page 56 of 390 Krunal Solanky hello guyz. There may be a failure of a dissimilar metal weld (DMW) in a Texas tower heat exchanger of a Static Equipment Group . „Texas Tower‟ is the name given to tall vertical combined feed/ effluent service exchangers which are common in refineries throughout the world.Facebook . Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 15. Hello Members. a regenerator. in continuous operation and throughput limiting. overhead recontacting section.bcz it depends on d foundation properties n bonding strength f concrete used. they are usually critical items in the plant operation. But as per my knowledge we cant provide d length.

generally having a wall thickness equal or near to the shell wall. moreover tube material is sometimes high alloy. Page 57 of 390 platformer unit.Facebook . Heavy Wall Bellows Heat exchanger shell bellows can be heavy wall flanged and flued bellows.November 17. ring reinforced for higher pressures. cost of thick wall expansion joint almost matches with thin wall expansion joints….e.. Thin wall bellows can be selected for following reasons. 2012 at 9:35am · Like Static Equipment Group . Design of such Bellows is covered by ASME Sec VIII Div 1. roll forming or hydraulic forming. Thin wall bellows can be formed by expanding mandrel. For this issue I talk to one of the reputed Korean Vendor & they informed that if thickness of expansion joint exceeds 50 mm. (2) Cost: Where no. ease of fabrication. For more number of convolutions. the first choice would always be TEMA THICK TYPE EXPANSION JOINT (Flanged & FLued) because of less cost. Stainless steel or nickel alloy. i. of convolutions are more than 4 or 5 better to select thin wall bellows type expansion joint. Those bellows are formed by welding flanged and flued plates together. ASME Code inspection and U-2 stamp is required. Code inspection and U-2 stamp is required. Appendix CC. Thin wall bellows have no circumferential welds. Design of heat exchangers is covered by the TEMA1 standards and ASME Sec VIII. The disadvantage is that a lot of fluid can be trapped in these corrugations and a drain is sometimes required. 2012 at 11:54am · Like Purav Desai If expansion joint is required. These bellows are more compact in OD than heavy wall bellows. 2. Div1. better to go with thin wall bellows type expansion joint.So it should be considered during material selection of the same……November 15.November 16.. ease of design etc. For this reason a higher fatigue life is expected. Bellows deflection is only axial and can be either extension or compression depending on the differential expansion of shell and tubes. Because of material thickness. Heavy wall bellows are rugged. (1) Fabrication Aspect: Where it is impossible to fabricate thick bellow for example if shell side pressure is very high thick expansion joint will have heavy wall thickness. In most cases the tubes are hotter than the shell. thus creating 1. which expands about 50% more than carbon steel. It should be remembered that the hydrostatic pressure and load (PA load) must be carried by the tubes which act in essence as tie rods…. Thin Wall Bellows Heat exchanger shell bellows can also be thin wall multi-convolution bellows. or 3 U-Shaped corrugations. 2012 at 8:09pm via mobile Hemant Solanki Heat Exchanger shell bellows are used on fixed tube sheet heat exchangers. An external cover is required for these bellows to protect against mechanical damage. and such expansion joint fabrication is impossible. Either heavy wall or thin wall bellows can be designed to give a satisfactory service by calculation. 2012 at 6:52pm · Like Arpita Shah How to select the bellow (thin type or thick type) type? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 15. Design of thin wall bellows is covered by ASME Sec VIII Div 1 mandatory Appendix 26. As per me. no cover is necessary.

Samir. It is often termed as IBW. if your calculated thickness is 9. Now I see the message "MAWP: 7.. To prepare such tube to tubesheet joint. If your equipment would have not fabricated in that case we may have tried other option to govern MAWP by pressure components…. Head or Flange only.. Static Equipment Group .. But as per client spec..e. reinforcement pad etc. go near to calculated required thickness. 2012 at 1:33pm · Like Hemant Solanki Samir. I have entered user defined MAWP same as Design pressure. November 19. Insert plate can not be inserted as equipment is already fabricated.Facebook . What is minimum thickness entered in pvelite for dish ends? Try to reduce this minimum thickness such that it shall be somewhat higher than calculated required thickness. not by minor component such as Nozzle neck . 2012 at 11:43am Purav Desai likes this. Welding is performed by inserting electrode and filler from tubesheet face and welding will be done from inside of tubes. Crevice free Tube to Tube sheet welds in Waste Heat Boiler Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 19.. MAWP show message " MAWP is limited by Nozzle reinforcement". unfortunately the fabrication have been finished and now client commented about MAWP limitation..e.500 bars.:All nozzles are without reinforcement pad.can anybody tell me how to solve this issue.5 bar and Limiting MAWP is 12.1 mm and you have entered minimum thickness as 10 mm then change it to 9.November 20... Hence. So What I am suggesting is in user defined MAWP option in pvelite you enter design pressure as user defined MAWP.S. e... Tubes will be welded to hub/lip using specialized welding machine.5 mm i.. Tubesheet will have a hub/lip with dimesnion equal to tube size on shell side. Purav Desai Verygood article.. It may work in your case and dish end may be limiting component for equipment MAWP. 2012 at 11:30am  Hemant Solanki Purav. P. What is design pressure and limiting MAWP in your case? Obviously limiting MAWP will be higher than design pressure. One more suggestion .November 20.948 bar As per your suggestion..g. Page 58 of 390 Hemant Solanki uploaded a file. PTR must be asked. limited by: DESIGN (user specified)" Is it acceptable?. I saw one such specification by UOP describing the details of IBW. 2012 at 1:22pm · Like Samir Jani The Design Pressure is 7. inner bore welding is necessary. MAWP shall be limited by Shell. i. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 20. when it is applicable vendor must be selected very carefully. 2012 at 1:02pm · Like Samir Jani In my project one item is being designed by PV elite programme..

If conditions do not permit we can limit it upto design pressure. as Royster Prajwal Cabral. thickness as 5. But practically the head thickness is more than that entered in PV elite. Maximum we can decide according to condition.is it valid? because actual finished thickness is 6. But its matter of limiting MAWP. Now MAWP is govern by Head instead of Nozzle reinforcement. And accordingly specify this MAWP on drawing and nameplate……November 20.8mm….November 20. It will resolve this issue and Pvelite will not show this message…. we prove that MAWP is limited by head Static Equipment Group .. "MAWP is governed by Head"..8 mm than this is OK.85 = 6.8mm.69 mm. I take finished thickness as 5.November 20.Facebook . For cases where we are initially designing there we can specify minimum thickness as per MAWP limitation. although the calculation shows otherwise….November 20..8 and PV elite required min.. Even thought we enter in PV Elite the head thickness nearer to the calculated valve (which in turn causes the MAWP to be limited by head) .. 2012 at 1:40pm · Like · 1 Samir Jani Head nominal thickness is 8mm.8 mm as per your reply. 2012 at 8:01pm · Like Samir Jani Hemant Solanki : in my case Head nominal thickness is 8mm so.8mm. specially if we consider Samir case.November 20. 2012 at 7:14pm · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki Purav.November 20. I was using finished thickness as 8 * .8 mm and MAWP will be governed by head. Just clarify below points in your case. You can reduce provided minimum thickness in pvelite to 5.November 20. In any case MAWP shall not be less than design pressure So you limit it to design pressure. It will serve the purpose. So for that purpose in calculation we are proving that MAWP is governing by head and not reinforcements. 2012 at 6:58pm · Like Hemant Solanki Yes you are right actual minimum thickness may be different after forming done by vendor. so practically the MAWP will not be limiting by Head. I think this you have taken 5. but now when I entered min. Again while specifying MAWP just ensure that you are specifying MAWP less than MAWP of reinforcements. So that Vendor can accordingly selects Nominal plate thickness…. 2012 at 7:56pm · Like Hemant Solanki In your case reinforcement pad is not provided so here Nozzle reinforcement means Nozzle neck is governing MAWP. If your calculated head thickness is less than 5. As here in Samir case. What I suggest is limit MAWP of your equipment to design pressure in Pvelite.. Page 59 of 390 As per your actual data you can enter user defined MAWP equals to 10 bar. Just again check….but I have same Q... 2012 at 2:04pm · Like · 2 Royster Prajwal Cabral Hemant Solanki i totally agree with your suggestion. i just have on doubt. thickness is 4. How it will be deviation ? Owner will always specify minimum MAWP which shall be design pressure. he can limit maximum limit to 10 bar as per values he has provided…. What is calculated head thickness ? What is provided minimum thickness in Pvelite?. 2012 at 1:56pm · Like Hemant Solanki Samir. so.

.. but i am a beginner in PV Elite.Facebook ... so this distance is horizontal location of CG point. Is it from the end of the Head or from the Weld Line Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 24.. Always keep in mind that pveliet calculates CG from datum of the equipment specified in input data.November 21. with dished ends.. for which you can calculate the CG easily) When you run. you will get the exact results as mentioned above by Hemant Solanki. But you can explain to client that by manipulating this design calculation we have still kept MAWP of equipment less tha. 2012 at 5:56pm · Like · 2 Purav Desai Alternative easy & perfect technique is to verify the CG location by modelling vessel of 500 ID x 1000 TL to TL. 2012 at 10:34am · Like · 1 Samir Jani Thanks for your help.8 mm as used thickness…. Page 60 of 390 because we input finished thickness lesser(5.See More. of a Vessel. as Pvelite is modelling from left to right for horizontal vessel.. Could you tell me from which reference does PV Elite calculate the C.8 mm).. so it will conicide with center of equipment. So in vertical equipment if you have kept datum point at TL of bottom dish end then pvelite output will show CG location from that TL line.November 21. 2012 at 3:47am · Like Hemant Solanki Samir. vertically it will be upto saddle height of equipment for horizontal vessel.. Do not model any other attachments.. I have attached a sample calculation in which the PV Elite output say that it is from the "First Element from Node".November 25. (Any other simple numbers can also be selected. and if Datum point is specified at skirt base plate bottom then it will show CG from that reference….G. can owner agree on that? because previous revision of calculation show 6.. 2012 at 11:05am · Like Royster Prajwal Cabral Guys i know this is a simple question to ask. 2012 at 6:42pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 7:45pm Hemant Solanki Dear as it is horizontal vessel this CG is calculated from TL of left side dish end.8 mm) than actual (6. Yes Royster concern is correct. as I explained earlier as now your equipment is already fabricated you have limited options..November 25.November 21.

2012 at 4:04pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Local load analysis of Nozzle located on conical dish end . What is Compress software do in such cases? I think some organizations uses Nozzle-Pro software for such analysis. So such analysis is not covered in WRC and PD 5500-Annex. G when Nozzle is located on conical dish end.please check.What should be Practice. Kindly reply as we are facing this in our current project. we often need to check whether FEA is really required to be performed. In Pvelite it is not showing any option to carry out this. Then go for FEA. the CG value will remains same. pvelite shows the CG from the first element from node. If margin is less. for vertical vessel or column.. In small equipment just to have a equivalent system the cone can be considered as a shell having diameter = [ diameter of cone at nozzle center / COS (half apex angle) ]. However.. how about for a horizontal vessel with Hemispherical head where the Tan is on the Shell….even if u changed the datum point. Is it required to ask vendor to perform FEA for such connection ? Share your views about what is practice following in your organization. Purav Desai.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 6. 2012 at 6:44pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear Hemant . considering considerable cost & time required for FEA. using NozzlePRO is a smart way to do this analysis as it will save your time required for FEA on Static Equipment Group . Hi All.. FEA is the only solution. As WRC or any other code / standard do not provide any guidelines to perform such analysis for nozzles mounted on cone. Pvelite stand is correct. Theoretically speaking there is a definite need to do some analysis to check whether the nozzle and shell thickness is adequate or not for nozzles mounted on cone. You may get some approximate results which you can check for available margin on allowable stresses..G.November 25. Also PD 5500 is also not covering cone mounted nozzle. As WRC is for spherical and cylinder mounted nozzle. But for small equipment with considerable thickness such analysis may be neglected. Ya.Facebook .. 2012 at 9:31am via Email Ashay Kadam Hi. And further WRC can be performed with nozzle diameter as major axis of nozzle cut in cone. Reason behind this is on conical dish end when opening is there pressure distribution will not be uniform. For big equipment with relatively small thickness doing FEA may be feasible and useful.. Page 61 of 390 Royster Prajwal Cabral Thnx Hemant Solanki . It's the same consideration which is used to calculate thickness of conical shell as per ASME.and correct me if i m wrong….November 26. What should be done to carry out local load analysis as per WRC and PD 5500-Annex.

I was expecting reply from you on this topic. * ASME VIII-1 Fatigue analysis updated (From Latest Div. Yesterday there was Pvelite 2013-Webinar. L&T-CHIYODA LTD. 2012 at 9:30am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki "Intergraph PV Elite webinar: What's New in PV Elite 2013" Hi All. It will make your life easy.2007 Edition implemented. .. I think compress has in built FEA software for such analysis but without that does it do analysis for local load by WRC or PD5500. * Graphics : Colour code by thickness .December 6.December 6.. Static Equipment Group . -Ashay Kadam.in report index wherever failure is there that topic will be highlighted in red so that we can easily locate in which calculation error is there / DXF and Rigging results directly from Output) * Codecalc .. 60 to 70 mm) like in my case then we should go for FEA. This is available in input. We can also do another thing that we calculate exact pressure at that location of nozzle on cone and then use it in coadecalc for analysis…. (Useful in column design) * Print straight to PDF via Pvelite-PDF Printer. (Mumbai)…. output. But if it very far away from the junction then we can do it in Coadecalc considering the diameter of cone on which the nozzle is mounted.. Page 62 of 390 ANSYS. * Output Processor (Report list colouring. material editor etc.9th Edition / API 579 . * Code Updates : PD 5500-2012 Edition / Tema .December 7. Features highlighted by Integraph spoke person is as below.All new version. * Now Manu style will be Ribbon type (Same Manu as we see in MS Office .Facebook . temperature etc. Results are also quite realistic and cost is also less per analysis if you are using this software extensively.. I think if the nozzle size is more and it is very nearer to cone to shell junction (App. But that analysis is also not correct as the pressure variation is different on cone in comparison to uniform pressure in cylinder. material.2010 templates) * Quick Calculation results / Text Highlight. codecalc.2 Criteria). (This is useful in calculation report generation for record). 2012 at 5:32pm via mobile · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki Thanks Ashay. 2012 at 6:42pm · Like Amit Mohanty Can any body can tell me what it does in compress.

Solanki@akersolutions. Scot may explan Audience Question Q: What is the Specific time PV Elite be released? A: The program will start shipping January 2013.Webinar Questionair Audience Question Q: What is the Specific time PV Elite be released? A: Very soon. * Exchanger tubes can be design under differential pressure. but to the 2007 version Static Equipment Group . For both shell and channel side separately. Audience Question Q: How about EN 13445 in PV Elite2013? A: We have done wome work on EN 13445. was only the general metal loss upgraded to the 2007 API 579? What else was upgrade to 2007 API 579 and what is the plan upgrade the sections such brittle fracture.com Date:Tue. It should be in December. Audience Question Q: For clarity. Page 63 of 390 * ASME VIII-1 material database 1943 to 1974 is available in this version. local metal loss and so on? A: we have only implememted what was in CodeCalc. In addition to this after presentation some questions were asked by participants.Facebook . The same is attached herewith for reference. vertical acceleration component added. Which were answered by Integraph spoke person. * Complete exchanger MDMT computation. ---------.Solanki@akersolutions.com To:Hemant. 11 Dec 2012 20:44:39 -0800 Subject:Pvelite 2013 . * Stainless Steel MDMT Computation.Forwarded message ---------- From:Hemant. * Indian earthquake code.

kg is the SI official uint Audience Question Q: Please add the possibility to open and close a file without saving any changes (for Static Equipment Group . was only the general metal loss upgraded to the 2007 API 579? What else was upgrade to 2007 API 579 and what is the plan upgrade the sections such brittle fracture. I therefore have to replace all Section Breaks with normal hard returns. CodeCalc still has the 2000 versions of pitting and local metal loss as well as the 2000 version of general metal loss. each paragraph is separated with a Section Break. local metal loss and so on? A: I should also clarify that Part 4 is implemented in PV Elite 2013. Audience Question Q: For clarity. local metal loss and so on? A: Currently only Part 4 is included but Part 5 (local metal loss) and Part 6 (pitting) will hopefully be released in the next version. Page 64 of 390 Audience Question Q: For clarity. We are considering other parts of API 579 but that is all still in the planning stages. the footer is disrupted). was only the general metal loss upgraded to the 2007 API 579? What else was upgrade to 2007 API 579 and what is the plan upgrade the sections such brittle fracture. However. You are quite correct. A: As far as I am aware.Facebook . Audience Question Q: When printing to Word. the output behaves as it always has. a nuisance. kg is MASS and should never be used for force. is confusing. and is not even the correct unit for weight (which should be Newtons) A: This is a particularly toublesome issue forme. Audience Question Q: will it be add some Chinese Code in the future? A: Not withinn the foreseeable future Audience Question Q: The use of "kgm" as abbreviation for kilograms is not according to SI. you can email us for a change. This is inconvenient with inserting the report into a Word report (for example.

Audience Question Q: How do I attach the skirt to the shell stiffner ring. So implementing FEA for this in future version Audience Question Q: For items to be transported over sea. Now I have to make a separate copy. no pressure).e. a second wind definition and use these for a special transport load case (empty. A: yes you can if you select a cylinder element Audience Question Q: In terms of the QA manual that is shipped with the software. it would be nice to be able to enter a second "seismic" load definition (i. Polar momentum should really be considered. do you also include the verification problems. Static Equipment Group . and PV Elite cannod fo that. A: That cannot be done Audience Question Q: Please is there any way that a platform and a ladder be added to a horizontal vessel. A: shippint transportation is a problem. ship movement). You should save the file under different file names Audience Question Q: Can the new verision analyze a vacuum jacketed vessel? A: Yes Audience Question Q: Will there be an option to see the 2D and 3D views at the same time? A: No Q: can we do local load analysis of nozzle which is mounted on cone? (Question raised by Manoj Nandwalkar) A: WRC-107/297 is not applicable for cone. Page 65 of 390 example to experiment with different input) A: That is not possible at the moment.Facebook .

Static Equipment Group . 3)For strength weld is expansion necessary. It is now done by FEA (For thick type bellow). till earlier edition of TEMA. Arpita Shah and Nadirsha Sahhabudeen like this. For thin type bellow we need to use EJMA) A: No. Audience Question Q: Are you planning to add the calculations for tubesheets with different edge conditions or different material? A: We need moreinformation to answer this question Audience Question Q: Are the QAfiles. they should be on the Program Files section of PV Elite 2013 under the QA folder. Q: Is Pvelite 2013 doing FEA for bellows? (Question raised by Hemant Solanki) Question unanswered by Webinar. either as pdf's or native mcad files available? A: They are PV Elite output files. Audience Question Q: bellow calculation as per TEMA 9th edition is taken care in Pvelite? (Question raised by Hemant Solanki. 2012 at 10:53am viaEmail Arpita Shah likes this. TEMA-9th edition does not talk @ analysis of thin bellows as to avoid unnecessary confusion in design method between EJMA & TEMA.Facebook . Page 66 of 390 A: Yes. 4)By expanding the tube what are the applications. Hemant Solanki Queries about Tube to tubesheet joint expansion Please clarify the below queries about Tube to tubesheet joint expansion- 1)when & why expansion is necessary . Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 11. Shall be check in Pvelite-2013 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 12. 2)Difference between contact(light) & heavy expansion and what its range. Which is applicable for Thick type bellow. for expansion joint design calculations were used but in latest edition TEMA introduced FEA. Further. we don't distribute MathCAD files. 2012 at 9:35am via Email Kiran Gawade.

Further while placing nozzles.. Design Code. (Reply) Expansion is necessary in all cases because tube hole in ubesheet is slightly higher than tube OD.. Hope this will help…. Purav Desai Yes. Cross flow type exchanger has multiple nozzles on shell.. Hi Purav Desai. 1 App. Some examples of cross flow type exchangers are AXU.24. VIII Div.U .. There are no special mecanical design consideration for this. 2012 at 1:36pm Kiran Gawade likes this. If yes can u give in details (Like. (1)when & why expansion is necessary .2.. BXU.2.. (Reply) For strength welded tube to tubesheet joints.. (Reply)Tubes are expanded using standard roller expander or sometimes using hydraulic expander..December 13. Examples. (2)Difference between contact(light) & heavy expansion and what its range. 2012 at 1:58pm · Like Purav Desai The shell flange can be designed as per conventional method of ASME Sec. 2012 at 9:29am · Like · 1 Varad Jahagirdar Can there be a Cross Flow Type . Remember for channel flange only channel side pressure Static Equipment Group .Tube Heat Exchanger?. (4)By expanding the tube what are the applications.December 13. 2012 at 1:56pm Harry Chacko BCDs are different for two girth flanges. 2012 at 10:09am · Like Harry Chacko uploaded a file. DXU. (Reply)For Heavy expansion. please have a look at the attachment and let me know to do the design of tubesheet using codecalc ? Preview · Download · Upload Revision Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 13.December 13. NXU. Design Considerations.. 2012 at 9:48am · Like · 2 Varad Jahagirdar Ok thx. (3) For strength weld is expansion necessary.. For the channel flange which is using studs tapped into the tubesheet.Facebook . no and size of bolt to be calculated as per ASME Sec. normally grooves shall be provided in tubesheet as per TEMA RB-7. Hence these nozzles shall be spaced at equal distance on the shell. In Heavy expansion minimum 5% thinning of tube thickness occurs. Tubes will be expanded in such a way that it will flow in these grooves. connected piping arrangement shall also be checked. contact expansion is necessary as explained in (1) above. Page 67 of 390 Purav Desai Please see reply as below. 1 App. So if we do not expand it will cause crevice and ultimately tends to leakage.. Design Output if any) Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 5. CXU. VIII Div.December 13. Drawings.

VIII Div... 2012 at 4:20am · Like Purav Desaihttp://www. 1) ISBL: Inside Battery Limit: For an EPC project. you will have to consider either collar bolts or tapped holes in tubesheet for hydrotest purpose.. there is a chance of GALLING which can lead to thread cutting and eventually cause leakage. Further for the engagement length of tapped hole. Two terms often used in process plants.December 13.. refer ASME Sec. Also. all work inside ISBL is done by contractor 2) OSBL: Outside Battery Limit: All supporting information/resources outside of ISBL Defining ISBL/OSBL is necessary to define scope of EPC contractor in terms of.. It is carbon steel.. In this case there is no need to consider test flange for hydro test. 2012 at 8:04pm Purav Desai Hi Pankaj.. my question what is battery limit ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 17.pdf..Facebook ... So. extended tubesheet shall be provided for bonnet type front head. And it is client design.December 14.December 18. Static Equipment Group .December 18.December 13. 2012 at 11:40pm Purav Desai Battery Limit is a physical boundary separating the process units. revise the design and make it conventional one. The other advantage of extended tubesheet is channel/tubesheet can be checked/inspected without depressurizing shellside.. 1 UG-43 (g)... 2012 at 11:16am · Like Mohamed Hussein dear all i have a question i need your help . I am unable find the reason of selecting different shell and channel diameter. 2012 at 5:29pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Further for your case if tubesheet material and/or stud material is Stainless steel.. we can have tubesheet which terminates at gasket OD or can have OD equal to mating flanges (tubesheet having bolt holes but not acting as a extended flange). but thanks for your explanation. Where we these two different configurations? Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 21. Page 68 of 390 is acting.. a) Tie In Connections b) Feed Inlet c) Product Outlet to Storage d) Available Utilities at ISBL e) Access roads.. 2012 at 5:37pm · Like Harry Chacko Thanks Purav Desai... if you get chance..burnsmcd.com/Resource_/PressRelease/1572/FileUpload/OSBLConsiderationsforRefi neryExpansionProjects. When you consider extended tubesheet.. the applicability of type of tubesheet depends on owner and as per API 660. 2012 at 4:20am · Like Pankaj Singla For removable tube bundle heat exchangers..

org/csconnect/CommitteePages. a question came to my mind. such temperory conditions are not considered.asme. mostly equipment MDMT is -6 ºC and all the materials will be selected according to -6 ºC.December 23. When I observe negative temperature. you can determine the staff contact by selecting the appropriate code committee's web page at: http://cstools.Facebook . test flange may be needed.cfm * All ASME standards meetings are free and open to the general public... You can browse all meetings at: http://calendar.asme. For tubesheet is not extended as flange.asme. In this season the material will be subject to the negative temperature in the manufacturer's shop. Suppose that one equipment for a plant in Saudi Arabia is ordered to Korean Manufacturer and is being fabricated in Winter season. 2012 at 6:34pm · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki New Year Post : Did you know these things about ASME ?? * If you have a question on interpreting an ASME code requirement.org/ * You can subscribe to ASME's quarterly Standards & Certification Update newsletter by sending an email to S&CNewsletter@asme.org Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 2 at 11:26am via Email Purav Desai Hello Friends. So my question is does any additional care is required for such condition? Has anybody come across any kind of material failures during such condition? Static Equipment Group . Presently I am in Korea and these days are extremely cold in Korea.. Sometimes the negaticve temperature is lesss than the MDMT of equipment.. Page 69 of 390 For non extended tubesheet (Typical EIL requirement). I will explain my doubt with an example. For the plant located in Saudi Arabia.org/ * You can preview pending ASME Code Cases and Interpretations at:http://cstools. design shall not be checked for flange bolt loads. But when we decide MDMT.

impact test is not required for MDMT upto -105 Deg....35. material may reach its brittleness at the time of exposure..Please correct me.Refer UG-116 a 5. there is no pressure and the coincident ratio per fig.Here this shop lowest temperature will not create problem unless equipment is not pressurise. Hence as per UCS 66- b3 .Same is explained in defination of brittle fracture in API 571.January 4 at 4:21pm · Like Mitul Patel Only low temperature will not create any problem here unless until there are not applied or residual stress.So during shop hydrotest code requires hydrotest temperature shall be 17 C higher than equipment stamp MDMT on name plate.. Page 70 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · January 4 at 2:30pm Krutika Shah likes this. Its interesting. and carbon steel plates whose rated MDMT is -6 ºC are laying outside the shop...January 7 at 8:51am via mobile · Like Mukesh K Prajapati I am of the same opinion as mitul.. there wont be any problem..1 is less than 0.. Since the material is not under pressure.Mitul Patel.Facebook ....What I understand from your question is that while finalising equipment MDMT we consider only lowest site ambient temperature and lowest possible fluid temp.January 4 at 3:34pm via mobile · Like Mihir Jha Gr8 query Purav Desai. For example the temperature is -16 ºC. However I thought some different mode of failure. Mitul Patel Purav.I welcome views of other group members.Also note that unless you dont have pressure inside equipment only lower temperature will not create any problem.so ASME requries name plate marking of MDMT @ MAWP.Hope I able to answer your query. SHELL has revised the MDMT of all top side pipings and equipments to -16 from 0 as during winter temperature in geoje city will be in negative & FLNG will be constructed & will sail from the same place.and we dont consider shop lowest ambient temperature. when we lift the plates using crane.. C.. some portion of plate will be under stress due to its own weight? How to ensure that nothing will happen during this condition?..January 6 at 6:53pm · Like Krishna Desai Right now I am working on SHELL FLNG. UCS 66.I had came across similar daught few days back...January 5 at 8:07pm via mobile · Like Kajasakthivel Narayanan Hi purav. During fabrication.January 4 at 4:15pm · Like Purav Desai I agree with both of you. i totally agree with Mr...January 11 at 10:35pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . Due to exposure of plate with negative temperature will not create any problem.... My understanding is that during fabrication of vessel.

see Figure UG-28. Normally. and in fact it imposed the additional cost of providing the stiffening ring.1. consequently they were not penalized by the Note (1) requirements. see UG-33(g). On the other hand.Again.com below. However. very surprising! There was a difference in the analysis: when the option was active then the MAEP of the cone was greater than otherwise. the designers questioned why there was no change in plate thicknesses between the two cases but that a stiffener ring was required when the junction was a line of support. A transition to a larger diameter existed at the very bottom of the vessel. or it may mean that a separate reinforcing ring be provided. COMPRESS provides an option labeled "Junctures act as lines of support" (see Set Mode Options dialog/Calculation tab). Note (1). After reading the below write up (though it is too long and though it is not exactly what u r looking for) u wil definitely get some idea. The particulars of this issue were first presented to me a number of years ago when a designer found that when the COMPRESS option was applied (junction was a line of support) then a stiffening ring was required. cone-cylinder junctions will be treated as a line of support for external pressure. Possibly around 120 feet tall with 4 foot diameter. What does this option accomplish for the design? When the option is checked. See Figure UG-28. But when the junction also acts as a line of support for external pressure these paragraphs require that the cone-cylinder junction must meet the stiffness requirements (moment of inertia) of Appendix 1-8. Page 71 of 390 Mukesh K Prajapati Dear all. the MAEP in that case was much higher than that of the other components and did not provide any benefit to the MAEP of the vessel.1. Rahul Valand I have pasted an extract from Engg. Tips . If the junction does not act as a line of support then ASME specifies additional requirements for minimum nominal thickness of the cone. but when the optionwas not applied then no ring was required and the existing material thicknesses were sufficient as well. In this Static Equipment Group . (Note that even if there is a knuckle at the junction the stiffness requirements must be met even though the reinforcing area requirements do not apply. The small diameter permitted the designers to omit vacuum rings without using excessive shell thickness (the thickness required by internal pressure was sufficient to handle the case of full vacuum). While designing cone for external pressure which option from following shall be considered? 1) not a line of support 2) both ends line of support 3) small end a line of support 4) large end a line of support Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 11 at 10:40pm via mobile Yogesh Pandya likes this.Facebook .1 for description of vessel configurations where cone-cylinder junctions are or are not treated as aline of support. Any of these options will increase cost. The second time I ran into this condition was for a very tall tower of relatively small diameter. knuckle. Thus there was no real benefit to specifying that the junction was to act as a line of support. if the junction is not a line of support then the requirement of Figure UG-28. This vessel on saddles was relatively small and the designers were using something like 1/4" plate across the board for practicality. This second example sheds some more light on the use of this "feature" of the ASME Code.) The requirement for stiffness may dictate that the cone or cylinder thickness must be increased. Note (1) may result in an increase in the thickness of the cone as well. the junction must be reinforced to provide sufficient reinforcing area as per UG- 33(f) and Appendix 1-8. or toriconical section.

January 12 at 10:17am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Dear it is very simple.e major line of support and stiffening ring i. However some time it is cumbersome to adjust stiffeners at cone ends.0) and there may then be some economy in permitting the junction to act as a line of support... But by permitting (or requiring) the junctions to act as lines of support the upper junction was required to have a reinforcing ring. Page 72 of 390 design the effective length of the smaller diameter shell was little changed between the two cases.. Again. If Pvelite wants to select both ends as a line of supports then why Pvelite is giving option for No end line of support in menu ??. If you want to take credit of cone ends as a line of supports then you have to satisfy inertia requirements at that ends. there was no benefit to this design to permitting the junctions to act as lines of support.e. Both the ends line of support must be selected.Facebook . The length in the first case was so long already that the additional length to the bottom head was notsufficient to materially change the nominal thickness that was necessary. line of support (code case 2286). "Although this forum is monitored by Codeware it is not intended as a venue for technical support and should not be used as the primary means of technical support. Can we draw some general conclusions out of these examples? Perhaps. If equipment is long it is some time beneficial to take credit of cone ends for line of supports... in the secondcase it extended to the line at the bottom head and included the additional length of the transition and the short bottom cylinder. please share ur views.. So It is on designer whether to take cone ends as a line of support or not.. In order to do some time we needs to provide stiffeners at that junctions. minor line of support. But if the transition exists at some intermediate elevation (unlike the second example) then the difference in unsupported length would be substantial (ie: the maximum difference would be by a factor of around 2." Tom Barsh Codeware Technical Support..Kevin Static Equipment Group .January 13 at 8:29pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki As you rightly said Pvelite cannot decide among which shall be line of support. and add stiffeners just some distant away from cone ends. PV-Elite help manual says that cone.. And in doing so we need to satisfy intertia requirement as per my earlier explanation. in that case we should avoid to provide cone ends as a line of support. In one case Le ran from the top head to the upper cone-cylinder junction... But since PV-Elite can not distinguish between bulk head i. In both examples the material thickness was governed by criteria other than external pressure (thinnest value for practical handling in first example. body flange and dish end acts as bulk head i. it will also work and will control min thk in external pressure.. internal pressure in second example).. Both ofthese principles might be considered when designing a vessel for vacuum.January 14 at 10:34am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Different Types of Trays Model . It will decrease min thickness required for external pressure design.e.January 12 at 11:16am · Like Mukesh K Prajapati Thanks for your promp reply.. The second example was such that there was little effective difference in the unsupported length of the long cylindrical shell section.

Kevin Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:52pm Ruby Sahu. Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group . Ruby Sahu and 2 others like this. Page 73 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:52pm Rajani Mewada. Hemant Solanki Random Packing . Kiran Gawade and Purav Desai like this.Facebook .

Facebook . Ruby Sahu and Purav Desai like this. Static Equipment Group . Page 74 of 390 Schoepentetor Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:52pm Mihir Jha. Hemant Solanki Valve trays Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:53pm Purav Desai likes this.

Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group . Hemant Solanki Expansion Bellow Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:57pm Kiran Gawade and Purav Desai like this. Kiran Gawade and Purav Desai like this. Page 75 of 390 Hemant Solanki Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:55pm Ruby Sahu.Facebook .

Facebook . Hemant Solanki PHE Plates and gasket arrangement Static Equipment Group .Sulzer model Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:58pm Dushyant Verma. Page 76 of 390 Column Internal . Ruby Sahu and 2 others like this.

Facebook . Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group . Hemant Solanki Spiral HE .cut view Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:59pm Purav Desai likes this. Page 77 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:59pm Purav Desai likes this.

Hemant Solanki Graphite Block type exchnager Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:02pm Static Equipment Group . Kiran Gawade and 2 others like this. Swapnil Deshmukh. Page 78 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:00pm Krishna Desai.Facebook .

Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group . Hemant Solanki PTFE Lined Fittings Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:02pm Kiran Gawade likes this.Facebook . Page 79 of 390 Kiran Gawade likes this.

Page 80 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:03pm Kiran Gawade likes this. Hemant Solanki Demister Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:53pm Ruby Sahu and Kiran Gawade like this.Facebook . Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group .

. Hemant Solanki How to avoid expansion bellows in heat exchangers without changing type of exchanger ? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 13 at 12:01pm Mitul Patel 1..If shell is failing then increase shell thk. Static Equipment Group .iif shell to tubesheet junction is failing than provide shell band.Other members can also add their views...If it is due to steam out condition on tubeside than also do steamout condition on shell side this will reduce difference in mean metal temperature 5. of baffles after checking thermal design to avoid bellow.sometimes steamout condition can also be removed after discussing process group... Page 81 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:55pm Kiran Gawade likes this. Hemant Solanki Twisted tube exchnager Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:56pm Kiran Gawade likes this.January 17 at 10:46pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Additionally following can be checked to avoid expansion joints/bellows in fixed tubesheet heat exchangers. 4. 3.If tubes are failing in buckling than check with thermal engineer we can increase tube thickness.January 16 at 5:58pm via mobile · Like · 4 Sachin Pawar If tubes are failing in buckling we can add more no. 2.Facebook ...

before adding no. By doing so. (4) As I shared earlier.5. If required.6 and 7). "Elastic Moduli.4(c). sometimes fluid temperatures were given in owner datasheet instead of MMT. partial support plates shall be added at shell side inlet/outlet.Facebook . In such cases actual MMT shall be calculated based on given fluid temperatures and analysis shall be done accordingly.. we can take advantage as per ASME Sec. in most cases tubes will pass in buckling. of cross baffles. central baffle spacing can also be reduced based on the available pressure drop on shell side.. (3) When tube buckling stresses exceeds. VIII Div. Page 82 of 390 (1) The MMT conditions given in datasheet shall be verified as per the equipment application.. I Part UHX 13. However for cases involving thermal loading (loading case 4. yield strengths and allowable stresses shall be taken at design temperatures. Sometimes to make a stringent case a hypothetical conditions and/or MMT values were specified in the datasheet. Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group .".January 19 at 6:43pm · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki Fittings Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:03pm Kiran Gawade and Ruby Sahu like this.4(b) and UHX 14. (2) As I shared earlier. It can be discussed with process engineer or Owner and can be deleted. it is permitted to use the operating temperatures instead of design temperatures (see UG-20)..

.....Facebook . Page 83 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:01pm Hemant Solanki its bubble cap tray.. lantern rings etc..January 19 at 7:18pm · Like Hemant Solanki Static Equipment Group .....January 19 at 7:15pm · Like Hemant Solanki yes it is random packing..January 19 at 7:18pm · Like Hemant Solanki Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:01pm Ruby Sahu these are column internals?.

Ruby Sahu nice....Facebook .. Kiran Gawade and Purav Desai like this.Kevin Model Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:52pm Ruby Sahu. Page 84 of 390 Column Internals .January 19 at 7:18pm · Like Hemant Solanki Quick Actuating Closure Static Equipment Group .

Hemant Solanki PHE Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:00pm Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Page 85 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 12:57pm Kiran Gawade and Ruby Sahu like this.

....January 19 at 7:29pm · Like Hemant Solanki This is new company in column internal.. they had just name this internal like that.1 and 2 Static Equipment Group ..Facebook . Hemant Solanki Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 19 at 1:00pm Ruby Sahu wt is this? FXlnt means???. Page 86 of 390 Ruby Sahu likes this.January 19 at 7:31pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Scope of Div.

Now why UOP has taken diameter as criteria ? it‟s simple. its logical that for this much pressure and higher diamtere..is depend on service like cyclic . If you see for higher diamter above 1000 PSI UOP has specified Div. Now as far as its interpretation is concerned. For such thickness it is required to carry out stringent inspection and also analysis.1 upper limit is 3000 PSI unless additional requirements are met.January 24 at 9:33am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Dear. As we knows that Div.. above which we go with Div.Facebook . fabrication and inspection decide the applicable code. What my understanding is div2 can be used upto 15000 psi with no minimum pressure boundry...... It‟s a UOP policy to decide construction code of any vessel. So Static Equipment Group . So it will serve only guideline purpose. This figure I have taken from UOP presentation.January 24 at 9:31am via mobile · Like Rahul Valand And what is the connectn betn pressure code and dia of vessel... thickness depends on diameter of vessel. So for higher diamtere thickness will be more for same pressure. I am still confussed what criterias they have considered to limit lower pressure limit of div 2..2. Page 87 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 23 at 4:11pm Rahul Valand likes this... We have to use it according to our applicability and situation. However the practical limit is below this value and Div..2 is typically used in this pressure range. Rahul Valand From where u have extracted this snapshot. As per UOP guidelines in this pressure range ( between 2000-3000 PSI as per that chart ) where user should really take call from both codes and according to cost of material..2. Thickness will be very high.

. Static Equipment Group . For load reduction purpose we use scalar factors. where it is specified?... wind plus live load... seismic plus live load. and longitudinal compression under wind or seismic loading. Now as far as Pvelite is concerned.75) is applied to multiple transient loads (e.January 24 at 10:25am · Like Mitul Patel What is relation between UG-23(d)foot note 12 and earth quake and wind global scaler factor input in pvelite loadcases.833.. But it will not happen due to geometrical constraints.2 becomes more advantageous with higher design pressures and greater thickness requirements.. baffle-to-shell leakage stream (E) and a tube-to-baffle-hole leakage stream (A).23(d). The 1..2 increase permitted is equivalent to a load reduction factor of 0.. and others)..2 times.2 will be the best option.January 30 at 7:53am · Like Arpita Shah For shell and tube heat exchanger. For effective transfer it is ideal condition that shell side fluid should contact all the tubes (In HTRI terms to maximizing % of main cross flow stream B ). It is to be noted that bypass sealing devices shall be located between baffle cuts. As Div. The sealing devices will come into picture to minimize leakage through a bundle to shell clearance (Stream C) and pass- partition bypass stream (F). external pressure. Page 88 of 390 Div. it is used to seal the bypassing of shellside fluid. And that factor shall be entered here as scalar factors. If in other applicable wind/ seismic codes there are allowable stresses limited then just check load reduction factor in that code..g. Some standards that define applicable load combinations do not permit an increase in allowable stress..Are these terms are interrelated? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 24 at 6:07pm via mobile Krunal Solanky likes this.. when combined with other applicable loadings of UG-22.. This provision allows the general primary membrane stress resulting from either seismic or wind loading.January 30 at 5:18pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki uploaded a file..2 factor. As we are already increasing allowable stress to 1. Generally we keep it as 1. As allowable stress is already increased by 1. Hemant Solanki Key consideration of paragraph UG-23 is given in UG. The increased allowable stress basis may be used for tension.2 times the code allowable stress..Facebook . Leakage thru these two streams are unavoidable. Sealing strips are used at periphery of bundle to minimize leakage thru bundle bypass stream C and seal rods are used to minimize leakage thru pass partition bypass stream..January 29 at 3:11am · Like Arpita Shah what is the application / function of bypass seal device? Like · · Follow Post · Share · January 30 at 7:09am via mobile Purav Desai Please elaborate? Which equipment. we should take these scalar factors as 1. however a load reduction factor (typically 0.. There are other leakage streams also. In short either we should increase allowable stress or reduce wind/seismic loads..January 30 at 12:05pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As its name. to be as great as 1. Refer attached figure for better clarity.

If you are not the intended recipient. disclosure. In seismic analysis (IS1893-RSM) it will help to give correct seismic moment value. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 20 at 2:11pm via Email Purav Desai Hi Hemant. copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 13 at 10:33am Senthil Anbazhagan and Rajendra Sharma like this. use. please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this email and any attachments permanently from your system.I believe its doughnut type baffles not exchanger. These type of baffles are also known as disc and doughnut type baffles because of its shape.5 to 3 meter shell courses width. Once the licensor was HTAS and for the other time it was UOP who specified such baffles for vertical exchanger. It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient. There are two sets of baffles one will be a disc and other will be ring looks like doughnut. From mechanical point of view there is nothing much to Static Equipment Group . Please find attached an example showing comparison of seismic moment between single shell course & multiple shell course with RSM. Hemant Solanki Have you done Doughnut type excnager design. In Pvelite while designing column like structure always prefer to model equipment in multiple shell courses.Facebook . any reading. Share its design procedure. Page 89 of 390 Column design : IS-1893 RSM Dear All. This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. Even though if thicknesses are same still divide it according to 2. I came across such exchanger couple of times for VERTICAL EXCHANGERS..

. (L&T-CHIYODA LTD.com. Here external pressure on shell is internal pressure in limpet coil.akersolutions.akersolutions.. Hemant Solanki My question was whether equipment wounded with limpet can take unsupported length with respect to limpet coil arrangement.nuc. That's why I have asked L equal to limpet coil dia. -Ashay Kadam. Share your views. then corresponding effect of changed unsupported tube length on tube & tubesheet design needs to be taken care.....com/Documents/PandC/Mining%20and%20metals/Gas- Gas%20heat%20exchanger%20Info www. Only jacket ASME has covered. Page 90 of 390 be taken care...February 20 at 7:44pm · Like Purav Desaihttp://repository.edu/bitstream/handle/1969. Just its thickness to be determined carefully by calculating unsupported span accurately..February 20 at 8:18pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Maximum unsupported length L consideration for equipment wouned with limpet coil Dear All. Refer below links for some additional information disc and doughnut type baffles.. ASME has not mentioned anything for this case.)..pdf.edu/papers/09-005_PB-AHTR_IHX.berkeley.February 20 at 7:49pm · Like Ashay Kadam When disc & dougnut type baffle is used. One more theory is as limpet coil is not continuous and its attachment requirement will not be as that of stiffener it shall not be considered. In that case adjusting inlet baffle space considering special arrangement of ring chember is important.. and equipment shell thickness under external pressure requirement will be more. Also.com/Documents/PandC/Mining%20and%20metals/Gas- Gas%20heat%20exchanger%20InfoSheet.Facebook .. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 19 at 3:03pm via Email Arpita Shah and Mitul Patel like this. In other words whether limpet coil can serve the Static Equipment Group .. its location and which baffle should come first is to be finalized by licensee.akersolutions. Also I think it will also be difficult to prove inertia requirement of stiffener for limpet coil. In case this inlet baffle spacing changes due to this.. FYI.February 20 at 7:43pm · Like · Remove Preview Purav Desai http://pb-ahtr.pdf http://www. Correct me if I mistaken somewhere.pdf?sequence=1.1/92378/ESL-IE-88-09- 26. there will be a ring chember which will direct the flow of fluid coming in from inlet nozzle along the complete periphery of shell.tamu. What should be maximum unsupported length L for equipment wounded with limpet coil ?? Can we take limpet coil dia as L ?? Because if we do not consider it then L will be more.February 20 at 4:26pm · Like Purav Desaihttp://www.

By any means if it is not possible to reduce unsupported length L... On other hand we can limit thickness under external pressure..February 25 at 10:56am · Like Hemant Nikam MR..... Solanki..it may change the fluid flow/contamination of old fluid in new batch fluid. If matrial cost vs performing FEA of that equipment is optimum then it will be economical to perform it..... In doing so there is no any risk as far as design is concerned.. My question is if there is vessel with H/D greatre than 5 and limpet coils are there with vaccum mentioned on shell then instead of providing external stiffeners whether can I consider limpet coils as stiffeners ?? answer is as written by me after discussion with senior colleagues and studying FEA results of the same... But as I have mentioned we should check possibility for it. It is not a mind question..February 25 at 11:24am · Like Hemant Solanki Dear Mr.In Pharma Industries this type of limpet coil vessels are mostly used but inside stiffners are not allowed because of the above reason.February 24 at 11:30am · Like Hemant Nikam MR..February 25 at 9:37am · Like Hemant Solanki Dear Mr. Nikam.. Yes your point regarding internal stiffeners is valid... solanki.chances of shell distortion also there . Also internal stiffeners installation regards to maintain tolerance is also difficult.co.I found Forming of half limpet coil from Plate and weld on shell and bottom dishend and avoid from fauling with Process nozzles is very critical work.google. your suggestion for Internal stiffners is correct but check with Process whether it is reaction vessel or Storage Vessel Generally Limpet coil is given in reaction Vessels and Process may not allowed the inside stiffners . FYI.February 25 at 9:41am · Like Hemant Nikam Mr. Nikam. Nikam.. First tell me is it face by you or its your mind's question ? If it is happened plz.....in/search?q=type+of+limpet+coil&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ &sa=X&ei=UhArUa7lJ-eaiAfD5YGAAg&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=649February 25 at 11:52am · Like · Remove Preview Static Equipment Group .. Page 91 of 390 purpose of stiffeners.https://www...it is more critical for SS Reactors /Vessels . check with Process and advice to change the sizing of Vessels and maintain the H/D ratio lesser than 5 and increase one more vessel to satisfy process requirements.. So as suggested it is either go with internal stiffeners or carry out FEA.. Thanks...February 25 at 9:58am · Like Hemant Solanki Dear Mr. it is not possible to change vessel dimensions.Facebook .. So according to discussions with seniors we came to conclusion that either provide internal stiffeners (if process permits) or carry out FEA if we really wants to economise thickness under external pressure. Check the types of limpet coils here..February 25 at 11:29am · Like Hemant Nikam Dear Mr Solanki I am sharing my experience I have stagewise inspected/tested of SS vessel with Half limpet coil without Providing Internal stiffners & supplied to One of the Pharma Industry in India..Because of lesser shell thickness... That is the best Option than taking risk.. According to Non Mandatory Appendix EE it's scope doesn't cover equipment and limpet design if vacuum presents in any part.. SOLANKI PRACTICALLY VESSELS HAVING LIMPET COILS MAY NOT FAILED BECAUSE OF EXTERNAL PRESSURE AS WELL AS INTERNAL ALSO. It is not mandatory. It is facing by one of my friend who is doing limpet vessel design. then we can opt FEA as tool to predict behaviour of that equipment.

February 26 at 7:08pm · Like Static Equipment Group .. shall be attached on outside of vessel only and formed an integral part of the saddle. Nikam.Facebook . Thanks for Document and experience sharing. Internal stiffening rings are prohibited So be carefull while design of vessles for external Pressure with Internal stiffners and should be check Project specifications as well as advice from Process Dept..February 25 at 11:55am · Like Hemant Nikam As per SABIC Internal Stiffners are Probihited Except Internals Support rings for any Equipments Even for horizontal Vessels saddles Stiffening rings.... Page 92 of 390 Hemant Solanki Dear Mr.. if needed.

Page 93 of 390 Hemant Nikam Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

1 Cylindrical shell Thickness calculation based on ID/OD basis in formula 0. Below is the Explanation how it comes in formula.6 and 0.and to convert thin shell to thick shell it cross the mean thickness as 0. Same phenomenon is applicable based on OD as 0..1 (h) While calculating area A5 (PAD Width x thickness ) 0. If anybody have different view share with me.5/0..5P .6 from ID and 0. Please note the below related to Pressure vessel design as per ASME SEC-VIII Div. Static Equipment Group . ************************************* As per Bednar Book this multipliers are thickness related (Mean diameter basis as 0.5P and As per Code stress and thickness formula based on inside radius approximate well accurate stress formula of Lame's is SE=(PRi/t)+0. But actual formula derived as per Bednar is as below Cylindrical shell tangential governing stress S= PD/2t =PRi/t (Ri= Inside radius of shell.Facebook .6/0.6P Where Instead of 0.4P is mentioned . t= thickness of Shell) S=P(Ri+0. *************************************************************** ******* 2) As Per UG-37..5 both ID and OD) and as per code for accurate thickness calculations these considered as 0.6P/0. Page 94 of 390 Dear all static Group Members.1 ******** 1) As per ASME SEC-VIII-Div.0. Some People are called as factors /Logic to 0.5t)/t (Considering Mean radius) after derivation of above equation t=PRi/S-0.but these are not factors.6P & t=PRi/SE-0.4 multiplier to Pressure it is similar for spherical shell and heads thickness calculations..4 from OD ..75 factor is consider as area reduction this is because of reinforcing element are made by different segments and that butt weld (full penetration) of segments shall comply as per requirement of UW part. it is related to mean diameter/radius of the cylindrical shell.4 P ******************************** My conclusion is Finally Multiplier in this formula is not a assumed factor.4 .6P is used and E is used for Code weld Joint efficiency and S is allowable stress.

and an explanation of the requirement is in order. But generally reinforcing pads used for nozzles are made from one segments . the amount of reinforcement area required for the circumferential plane is only one half of that required for the longitudinal plane. Now simple logic.75 factor comes to picture by above explanation. Circum seams going to experience 25% of pressure that of long seam at 45°). So to avoid any stress concentration effect in that area. It shall be done as it may happens sometimes that nozzle lies on long seam of shell. Or 2.1 (h) is concerned whatever you have mentioned from code itself contains answers. This Figure is often misinterpreted or is not fully understood.75 times of that of actual area removed. Nikam for useful information from bedner. if my split pad nozzle opening axis is at 45° to that of long axis then by any how my Area removed will be 0.e. If that NDT is other than RT/UT then these reduction shall be applied. My questions to all Is it required to considered the area reduction multiplier in A5 area calculations. And to take total area A5. So no need to reduce pad area A5 Static Equipment Group . Split butt joints shall be oriented at least 45° to shell long axis. here full area of A5 can be taken). At last it doesn‟t changes final effect. Anybody can term it by any emans. Page 95 of 390 This multiplier for area reduction can be avoid if below one point is satisfied a) Full radiography/ultrasonic of the full penetration butt welds b) for opening in cylinder weld joint is oriented at 45 degree from the longitudinal axis of cylinder. Thus. That‟s why 45° limitation is given.Facebook .e. UG-37. In a cylindrical shell. As far as Factor / Multiplier is concerned it does not make any change in the formula as far as we know how it‟s derivation is there. the stress varies from the longitudinal plane to the circumferential plane. minimum required shell thickness times the finished diameter of the opening). 90° from the longitudinal axis) is 50% of that required for the longitudinal plane. The area of reinforcement required at any cross section through the opening must be equal to the shell area required for the design pressure that is removed by the opening (i. Code has defined to locate split pad butt joints away from shell long seams. Accordingly. required pressure thickness in the circumferential plane of an opening (i. Code has mentioned area reduction of 25% in pad area A5 shall be considered in split pad as these are fabricated from more than one piece and then butt welded and then corresponding NDT shall be carried out. Full radiography / UT of that butt welds shall be done (as it is ensuring integrity of joint. from Fig-UG-37 (i. *************************** Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 25 at 8:54am Hemant Solanki Thanks Mr. Now As far as UG-37. 1..75.e. the circumferential pressure stress is twice as large as the longitudinal pressure stress.. Now shell long seams experiences major hoop stress. Refer Fig. So Factor F shall be determined according to opening axis with respect to long axis from Fig UG-37 Actual formula is Ar = d*tr*F At 45° F=0. Now I will explain how this 0.

Facebook .. If above points are not full filled than code has mentioned to reduce area of pad to 25% that is multiply with 0.75 as per figure UG-37….February 25 at 9:39am · Like Static Equipment Group . Page 96 of 390 further.

Page 97 of 390 Mitul Patel Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

you usually only see spheres used for very large volumes (maybe in the order of 300. For a 10 foot diameter tank. The diameter for shipping of a storage tank is in the order of 10 to 14 feet depending on the method of transport. top COMPARISION OF LPG SPHERES WITH LPG STORAGE TANKS: 1) Least initial investment and financial risk in case of LPG multiple storage tanks of as compared to sphere of similar or larger volume. So one is better than the other only in the matter of which has a cheaper overall installed cost. 3) LPG Multiple LPG storage tanks makes the project faster. The sphere of course uses less material than a bullet for the same amount of liquid storage but is somewhat more difficult to fabricate.Facebook .000 gallons or more) because they must be field fabricated to compete with the bullet in cost. Page 98 of 390 IS MOUNDED BULLET FOR STORING LPG IS BETTER THAN USING SPHERE? AND WHY? The choice between a bullet and a sphere is a matter of economics and project logistics. especially in small islands porne to earth quakes. you can get 10 or more times the storage in a bullet than a sphere. economical. 5) Multiple LPG storage tanks have an added advantage that the load is distributed over a larger area thus the problem of uneven settlement / collapse Static Equipment Group . For this reason. 2) LPG sphere of same volume needs more time for construction as compared to LPG multiple storage tanks. easier and will in turn help the company to start the terminal as soon as possible which in turn will generate good immediate returns. 4) LPG Storage tanks are much safer since it weight is distributed evenly on a larger area thus reducing chances of collapse as compared to sphere. the bullets are preferred because they can be shop fabricated and more easily transported. For smaller storage tanks. cyclones and Tsunami as can be verified from the recent incident in Japan where a row of LPG sphere went under severe fire condition. This would limit a sphere's storage capacity if it is shop fabricated.

shipped to site. heat treated. adjusted. assembled and welded at site piece by piece in proper sequence. 9) Sphere once fabricated cannot be moved or relocated from one place to another and if in case any relocation (due to sale of plant or plant relocation) is required the sphere has to be cut into several small pieces and transported to site and then reassembled and re-fabricated at new site this is as good as manufacturing a brand new sphere at site and hence the after sale value of a sphere is much less and as compared to lpg storage tanks hi h a e sold out for good retur s……February 28 at 6:53am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . The fabrication cost increases considerably in case of sphere as compared to multiple LPG storage tanks . radiographed and tested at site. But in case of multiple storage tanks even if one of the tank generate a possible breakdown and the LPG ship also arrives the same time still the LPG from the ship can be unloaded to the remaining tanks and the company will have to incur least loss due to ship demurrage. Whereas in case of sphere if there is any problem with the sphere or its valves or pipeline the entire plant comes to a stand still (This is a loss to the company in terms of business loss. as well as extra demurrage that the company may have to pay to the shipping company if unfortunately the LPG ship also arrives the same time when the sphere has generated a possible breakdown). Page 99 of 390 is largely reduced.Facebook . since the sections have to be pre fabricated at shop. product loss. blockage of Like · · Follow Post · Share · February 28 at 6:52am via mobile Mitul Patel blockage of manpower. also in case of emergency the LPG product in the tank under repair / maintenance can be easily transferred to another tank located in the same plant thus increasing safety of the plant. 7) Though there is a common notion that for the same volume a sphere has the least surface area and least thickness and hence lesser weight and less cost but our past experience suggests that weight saved in making a sphere as compared to storage tank is lost as wastage in the development of various sections (petals and crown) thus leaving little or no benefit of the weight saved. More over there is a continous requirement of close monitoring. machinery rent etc. Fabrication of sphere requires lot of time since the petals / sections are required to be assembled piece by piece in proper sequence and completion of one stage is entirely dependent on completion of the earlier stage as so on and so forth. 6) In case of installations with Multiple LPG storage tanks if there is any problem / maintenance / repair / breakdown of any one tank the outlet and inlet valves of the same can be closed and the tank can be isolated.

Hemant Nikam GOOD FINDING…. but.. It was observed that there was misprinting in TEMA Table CB-4.. thanks for the info. Kiran Gawade. But 5/8" stands for 15.February 26 at 10:01am · Like Hemant Solanki Purav please convey the same to tema through mail. This is minor point but can lead to wrong selection of baffle thickness.. The baffle thickness is specified as 5/8" (12.9 mm. Refer the attachment for TEMA reply……March 7 at 6:59am · Like Static Equipment Group . this is set in our mind. Thanks for sharing……March 5 at 6:15pm · Like Purav Desai I have reported misprint to TEMA and got reply. Salman Hussain and 8 others like this.com..41.February 25 at 9:33am · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan since.7 mm) for nominal shell ID (1549-2540) and for unsupported length (914 ~ 1219)...Facebook ... Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 25 at 5:54am Ramdas Kadam. we use R class frequently. Page 100 of 390 Purav Desai Dear Members.February 25 at 4:16pm · Like Yogesh Naik change my e mail address to jdengineers11@yahoo. Please take care accordingly.

is it mandatory? Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 11 at 3:01pm Harry Chacko likes this. now with this we must provide weep hole in partition plate. Purav Desai thinning for small radius u bends is common. however as per my experience for each and every material the u bend manufacturing company has standard procedures and they will ensure that thinning at small bends never exceed 17%.March 11 at 10:53pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki weep hole requirement in Shell DEP.this generally applicable for distillatio olu s heat E h agers here i or te p. differe e a ause the produ t failure …March 18 at 12:39pm · Like Samir Jani Dear Friends.Facebook . If it is more than 17% then tube thickness shall be increased. I would like to know fabrication sequence of NFU type exchanger.March 16 at 3:15pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam Reason Given by Purav also correct as corrosive fluids. while starting of Process tubeside inlet fluild with high temp may directly pass through weep hole and that may change the process condition to the next equipment. do we need to increase tube wall thickness as 17% ?. Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 19 at 2:57pm Static Equipment Group . all high and low points in exchanger shall be provided with vent and drain if not vented and drained by other means. If anybody have experience with NFU type please share their idea about fabrication. Fluid from Tubeside. As per API 660 Annex A Para A. thinning of small radius u bends shall be calculated as per TEMA.2. the tube wall thickness should be increased to compensate for thinning in bends.. such thinning can be as much as 17%" this means if U bend radius is less than 3 times tube OD..2. another reason may be High temp. as per my understanding as per TEMA req. My other view point of not providing weep hole is in case of corrosive fluids such small hole can be a starting point for crack for atio …. if the mean bend radius is less than three times the tube outside diameter. As per shell standard weep holes shall not be provided on pass partition plate. So when u purchase u bends this is one of the condition to be specified in requisition…. Page 101 of 390 Samir Jani Dear Friends.1 "for U tube type bundles. 6 mm weep hole is small and doesnot cause any impact on performance. Can anybody knows why such requirement is given in shell DEP?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 15 at 7:15pm via Email Purav Desai this is very recent change in DEP.

. Baffle for fixed tubesheet exchangers. Instead of considering flat longitudinal baffle.March 20 at 2:22pm · Like Purav Desai Hi Samir.)..Facebook . if any other members have any idea please share. Jani may be raised the above query for fixed U tubesheet with F shell arrangement .. Weld the shell with tubesheet.. With this bundle can be assembled as per normal procedure and after that Static Equipment Group . the problem with fabrication is (1) it is very difficult to weld longi. consider a small welding lip on both ends on long side of baffle. Assemble a bundle. 2. (2)it is difficult to insert tubes and tie rod in to the tubesheet due to longer length of shell (6mtr. This looks quite simple but not simple for fabrication. Purav Desai NFU is a fixed tubesheet exchanger with tubesheet integral with shell and channel both with longitudinal baffle on shell side. 3. Long baffle shall be welded to cross baffles and gaskets shalk be bolted. baffle to shell because of smaller dia.AFM.).NFN type ?. 4.************************ Below are my views for longitudinal baffle welded to main shell.March 19 at 7:47pm · Like Purav Desai It can be welded to shell for fixed tubesheet exchangers provided proven fabrication technique is available. Keep the channel ready. In this case it will be part of bundle. its the case which I mentioned in my first reply. 1. Additionally shell shall be made in two halves. Hemant thanks for your reply. Removal l U tube bundle*** Below is the condition:. If Owner does not agree to change it to gasketed type then as per me one option is available. ****************************** But generally this may be avoided due to complicated fabrication. Baffle will create lots of difficulties in fabrication.March 19 at 4:33pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam But in which case the Longitudinal baffle is welded to shell ? Fixed Tubesheet at both end.. Assemble tube bundle in the bottom of long bafgle first then on the top side and then weld the top half of shell.March 19 at 9:45pm · Like Hemant Nikam Because of the same questions Mr. One of the fabrication method is to make shells in two longitudinal halves.March 19 at 8:09pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam What about the single segmental baffles? how that will installed /attached with the longitudinal baffle?. Page 102 of 390 Yashwant Naik likes this.. of shell (720 ID x 6 mtr. Hence in order to simplify the fabrication gasketed long.. and for Fixed tubesheet with lesser segmentle baffle assembly will be done similar to the normal. As per client requirement Longi. Members working with fabricators can share some more details…. It is recommended to use welded longi. So.For tubes arrangement in horizontal plane and other baffles shall be in double segmental but in vertical condition with slot for bundle removal can be possible. Weld the channel with tubesheet.better way provide lamiflex strips at the end of longitudinal baffle to seal the shell and longitudinal baffle gap…. However welded long.March 19 at 9:56pm · Like Samir Jani Dear Mr. Others may add/correct further…. The fabrication sequence would be.BFM. Baffle is used. Purav and Mr. baffle should be welded to shell.

.March 20 at 5:08pm · Like Static Equipment Group ..Facebook .March 20 at 5:06pm · Like Purav Desai Welded in lobgitudinal baffle.let me check this option with fabrication team.March 20 at 2:40pm · Like Hemant Nikam If there are segmentle baffles then how that U tubes will pass/Installed as per drawing shown by Purav ?that may possible if U tubes arrangement in horizontal plane without segmentle baffles /with only Vertical segmentle baffles by providing groove on it to pass through the long baffle.. For this type of configuration forged matl( for long. Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 20 at 2:44pm near Bulsar. Page 103 of 390 two halves of shell can be welded to longitudinal baffle.it is very difficult to weld tubsheet to main shell with installing tubes…. Samir Jani Thanks for your suggestion. baffle) to be used because of lip.March 20 at 3:12pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Agreed but considering shell as main pressure bearing component my suggestion is for lip type to achieve butt weld….March 20 at 2:47pm · Like Purav Desai Check its connection at tubesheet end..March 20 at 3:17pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam Purav as per above drawing tell the procedure of fabrication/Installing Tubes…. I have a little doubt there….March 20 at 2:49pm via mobile · Like Patel Sajit Purav As per fighure shown. It is better to weld shell in two half directly with baffle with FPW welding…. Gujarat Kiran Gawade and Samir Jani like this. Refer attached figure….

all the bundles were made outside first. 4.March 24 at 7:42pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Yes Purav Desai.March 21 at 2:54pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Guys.. arresting the flow on the sides.March 20 at 5:28pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam One more point if double segmentle baffle are with horizontal cut ... By following above its same... If thermal requirement is no allowing the pressure drop through long baffle clearance..to avoid this we have to provide rectangular hole to alternate baffle top and bottom portion .. Prabhakar Harikrishnan. As far as im concerned.. Install tie rods in the tubesheet. Thanks…. Once full bundle assembly is completed weld two halves of shell. Think what if the shell thick is high... Start installing tubes from inner most rows. but. then the mechanical has to go for welded type. i was just saying the difficulties in shops. The shop people will curse us.. may be the welding type varry from spec to spec. overall this will not be economical and not easy to fabricate. Page 104 of 390 Purav Desai Dear Hemant Nikam. Install 1st spacers and long baffles. Samir Jani will shoot a video and you can understand... baffle and as per me i see the suggested option.& check unsupported tubelength .. what we have done is weld shell in 2 halves. if pressure drop is allowed.. also...March 25 at 4:11am · Like Static Equipment Group .. we have done some welded long baffle type. Say the long baffle is 12 thick and shell lip is around 40.March 20 at 6:22pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Purav Desai.. May be mr.shell side fluid may block upto the longitudinal baffle area...March 24 at 9:13pm · Like · 2 Purav Desai Agreed with u Prabhakar Harikrishnan. we go for lamiflex type or any other seal type (non welded). IF you read Samir's earlier post on the same topic. If you wanted to use Longitudinal baffle thick as same as Baffle thick.March 21 at 1:26pm · Like Hemant Nikam I AGREED WITH MR. have u ever come across a welded longitudinal baffle? What solution you have adopted in such case?. 2. forging itself is a big problem.. 3.. I am not emphasizing to use the configuration i suggested. 5. Above is my understanding it may be different based on vendor own procedure…. PRABHAKARS COMMENTS--BETTER OPTION LONGITUDINAL BAFFLES WITH LAMIFLEX SEALING STRIPS BOTH ATTACHED WITH TUBE BUNDLE AS BOLTING ARRANGEMENT…. Its highly difficult for me to explain it in words.should not exceed than the permissible….Facebook . for 6m. i would say what Patel Sajit had said. But. the weight of the equipment would increase. the option you suggest is good one. our average tube length is 6m and the cost of the Longitudinal baffle will be high. Start installing it one by one. Cross baffles shall be made in two piece.. He clearly mentioned that owner's requirement is welded type long. the factor that is required in thermal design will decide welded long baffles. good thought actually..further bundle assembly procedure variew from vendor to vendor…March 20 at 5:20pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai 1.

65 mm).. Large shell side i let elo ities…. Thickness for finned tubes at root diameter is normally lower and it may cause such issues. Please share your views.March 26 at 7:04pm · Like Mitul Patel Dear group members. Does U-1(g)(2)(a) covers all kind of heat exchangers including kettle type reboiler where steam is generating on shell side? Does U-1(g)(2)(3) applicable for vessels only & not for heat exchangers in which steam is generating & being extracted? If sulphur condenser which is basically TEMA type NKN heat exchanger in which steam is generated on shell side of heat exchanger.Facebook . (2) Large inlet and outlet baffle spacing i.This steam is withdrawn for external use. I have heard this term for the first time. long unsupported tube spans. (1) Soft tube materials (lower yield points) like non ferrous tubes with relatively lower tube thickness (less than 1. Page 105 of 390 Hemant Solanki tubes sagging why the exchanger tubes sagging ? Is any one knows the possible reasons of tube sagging? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 26 at 9:55am via Email Purav Desai Good one. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 29 at 4:07pm via mobile Purav Desai and Tejas Shah like this. Does as per U-1(g)(2)(3) this equipment is classifed as "Unfired Steam Boilers"? Please note U-1(g)(2)(3) "Vessels in which steam is generated but not withdrawn for external use" Does this word vessels includes heat exchanger also?or it is applicable only for vessels? If we consider this equipment as unfired steam boilers than as per UW-2(c) full radiography and PWHT is mandatory. Static Equipment Group .e. I proper i pi ge e t prote tio . However there could be following reasons for tube sagging in heat exchangers.

but which are not “unfired steam boilers.March 29 at 6:48pm · Like Hemant Solanki Interpretation: VIII-1-83-104 Subject: Section VIII-1.” such as UW-2(c). Division 1. the steam-generating components of a pyrolysis unit used for the manufacture of ethylene or the steam-generating components of a hydrocarbon reforming unit used in the manufacture of ammonia and hydrogen should be constructed to the rules of Section VIII. Vessels generating steam in such units fall under the scope of Section VIII.Facebook . This paragraph states. Division 1. Steam. (2) vessels in which steam is generated by the use of heat resulting from the operation of a processing system containing a number of pressure vessels such as used in the manufacture of chemical and petroleum products. “The following pressure vessels in which steam is generated shall be constructed with the rules of this Division: (1) vessels known as evaporators or heat exchangers. For example. Preamble Date Issued: March 4. Such vessels are not within the Scope of Section I.. Division 1. Many petrochemical processing units have steam generation as an integral part of their processing scheme. The rules of this division may be applied even though the heat to generate the steam may be from a fired process heater. (b) The second from the last paragraph of the Preamble of Section I requires “unfired steam boilers” to be constructed in accordance Static Equipment Group . such as used in the manufacture of chemical and petroleum products. or in the processing area where steam is generated by the transfer of heat from the process stream. as illustrated by reasons as follows: (a) The definitions of pressure vessels in which steam is generated. The following pressure vessels in which steam is generated shall be constructed in accordance with the rules of this Division: (1) vessels known as evaporators or heat exchangers. They are within the Scope of Section VIII. Page 106 of 390 Hemant Solanki One of the scope provisions of Section VIII. are not required.” are identical in both Sections I and VIII. and the special rules applicable to “unfired steam boilers. Division 1. states: Unfired steam boilers as defined in Section I shall be constructed in accordance with the rules of Section I or this Division [see UG-125(b) and UW-2(c)]. The heat generated in the process heater is required to cause a chemical reaction. U-1(g) and Section I. Are these provisions in conflict with the third from the last paragraph of the Preamble of Section I? Reply: No. and the residual heat of combustion is recovered to generate steam…. 1983 File: BC79-780 Question: U-1(g) of Section VIII. (2) vessels in which steam is generated by the use of heat resulting from operation of a processing system containing a number of pressure vessels. Steam may be generated in steam-generating heat exchangers by heat transfer from the process fluid. that is often misunderstood is given in paragraph U-1(g).generating heat exchangers may be in the convection section of a fired process heater.

Facebook . (c) As quoted in the Question.March 29 at 6:54pm · Like Hemant Solanki Interpretation: VIII-1-86-201 Subject: Section VIII. fired auxiliary steamgenerating equipment. 1988 File: BC87-486 Question (1): Are vessels in which steam is generated as described in U-1(g). Division 1 (1992 Edition. Question (2): If the reply to Question (1) is no. III. Section VIII requires “unfired steam boilers” to be constructed in accordance with its special. who determines if a vessel as described in U-1(g) is defined as an unfired steam boiler or one of the other “vessels in which steam is generated?” Reply (2): See footnote 1 of the Introduction…. Some applicable laws or regulations may require such vessels to be constructed either with the provisions of UW-2(c) applied or under the rules of Section I…. “Pressure vessels or parts subjected to direct firing from the combustion of fuel. which are not within the scope of Sections I. UG-125(b). 1993 Addenda). is necessary for the operation of the plant. May fired auxiliary steam-generating equipment that generates steam for the operation of a chemical or petroleum processing system be constructed to the rules of Section VIII.” This means that fired equipment can be constructed by Section VIII. Division 1. may be constructed to the rules of this Division. We caution you that the laws or regulations at the point of installation may dictate the construction. and UW-2(c)? Reply (1): No. Page 107 of 390 with its rules or the applicable rules of Section VIII. A fired vessel that generates steam in a petrochemical processing unit can be constructed in accordance with Section VIII as demonstrated by the following interpretation. U-1(g) Date Issued: January 25. Division 1 rules. Interpretation: VIII-1-95-48 Subject: Section VIII. or IV. When the steam generated does not provide all the steam needed for the operation of the chemical or petroleum process plant. except those known as an unfired steam boilers. U-1(h) Date Issued: March 13. such as UW-2(c). This paragraph states.. required to meet the special requirements of UG- 116(d). applicable rules.March 29 at 6:55pm · Like Hemant Solanki Another important scope definition is found in U-1(h). such laws or regulations should be reviewed to determine requirements that may be different or more restrictive than the Code rules. Division 1. As indicated by footnote 1 to U-1 Scope of Section VIII. satisfying Static Equipment Group . which is an integral part of the plant. 1995 File: BC94-670 Question: Steam is generated in a processing system containing a number of pressure vessels used in the manufacture of chemical and petroleum products.

Static Equipment Group . Now regarding past projects.As far as I know this is not practise in general.March 29 at 6:56pm · Like Mitul Patel I have already gone through related interpretation referred by you.Last bugis project PWHT is not there but radiography is there.March 29 at 7:05pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As per me.. I am convinced to consider Sulfur Condenser as Unfired Steam Boilers.Facebook . Yes.refer below attached snap for clarification.please share ur views.March 29 at 7:58pm · Like · 1 Rohitash Singh Panwar This is in reference to limit the tube thinning to maximum 17% as per TEMA and API 660. as I remember this point was not very well known. see footnote 1 of U-1…. However when we read all three clause.March 29 at 7:52pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Very right. Question is simple shall we consider sulphur condenser as “unfired steam boilers" or not? U-1(g) is about which equipment you can exclude from considering unfired steam boilers. Issue will come for foreign jobs where IBR is also not applicable…..Because it add cost for full radiography and PWHT as per UW-2(c). I request group members to check past project reference for such exchanger….March 29 at 7:37pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel We have check but there is not consistency on which we can conclude.. Sulfur condenser shall be considered as Unfired steam boiler because one of the by product of SRU is steam generation and this steam is used in adjacent processes/units. Does heat exchanger means any type? Does (c) also covers heat exchanger because it is also type of vessel or it is only vessels? Than all kettle type exchangers where steam is generating and extracted for external use need to be considered as “unfired steam boilers". the language is really confusing. I have prepared database @ LTC for sulfur condensers. Actually word heat exchanger in (a) and vessels (c) is confusing. Page 108 of 390 the requirements of U-1(h)? Reply: Yes. You can check in there…. However such ambiguity can be discussed with Owner at initial stage if intended to save radiography and PWHT cost….

Facebook ... what if TEMA has permitted only 15%.. Ramdas Kadam. we need to increase the thicness of the tubes.. Page 109 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 22 at 9:40pm via mobile Purav Desai.. also.March 23 at 9:35am · Like Purav Desai Dear Hemant Nikam. obviously.. the thinning at bend never exceeds 17%.. we need to go for one gauge higher…. Hemant Nikam and 4 others like this..5 D..5 times OD or more. some spec says. if u consider minimum u bend radius of 1. crux of the matter is. Purav Desai Good one..March 24 at 7:35pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan I guess. Waiting for second one which we discussed last time….March 24 at 9:46pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . for the same case. that is why TEMA is permitting 17%. if inner most tube radius is less than 1.

. U bend radius shall not be greater than 1. 1 Appendix 1- 10 in lieu of UG-37 and 1-7. We shall only follow UG-40 limits. Whenever during UG-37 calculation there is requirement to increase area available in shell.5 times Tube OD and 2. Above are some criteria which calls for insert plate. We should give appropriate taper of 1/3 or ¼ to match with shell thickness where it is going to be welded…April 8 at 11:51am · Like · 1 Purav Desai Caution to Designers when Applying Rules of ASME Sec. there are tubes available with higher thickness only at u bends so one can go for that also…. We need to increase thickness of shell at nozzle junction. Practice. Thinning shall not be more than 10 % of thickness of straight part.Facebook . It's (Shell thickness + 2 mm) We can take Insert Plate thickness > (Shell thik + 2 mm) but it's not Good Engg.March 25 at 4:12am · Like Mrudang Mehta In my present FPSO project. Static Equipment Group . specification calls for : 1. Sometimes during local load analysis of nozzle it is required to increase local shell thickness in order to sustain nozzle loads.April 3 at 6:31am via mobile · Like Mihir Jha When it is prefer to provide the insert plate in place of pad reinforcement for nozzle? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 8 at 10:57am Hemant Solanki 1. Page 110 of 390 Purav Desai Yes very right.April 8 at 11:41am · Like Hemant Solanki As far as insert plate thickness is concerned. So it is not like that we should limit it to shell thk + 2 mm.. 2. We should ensure that minimum insert plate diameter shall be of 2d without considering transition done for attachment with shell…April 8 at 11:06am · Like · 1 Kiran Gawade What is the max limit of Insert Plate ?? According to my knowledge. VIII Div. I was thinking that thinning requirement is very restrictive but surprising none of the vendors asked for deviation….

1-10? Kindly share your views.Facebook . http://www. code is very clear when it is mandatory to use rules of 1-7.April 8 at 2:55pm · Like · 2 Purav Desai Appendix 1-10 can be opted in lieu of UG-37 for all applicable cases provided requirements specified in Appendix 1-10 (d) Caution to designers is met.pdf. But when to go with 1-10 ? what is scope demarcation between UG-37 and App. Appendix 1-10 is alternative rules and nozzle to shell intersection can be optimized using that. IN 1-10 it calculates only membrane stress wherein 1-7 asks for membrane as well as bending stress calculation. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 8 at 11:14am via Email Purav Desai likes this. Page 111 of 390 Hemant Solanki Scope of Appendix 1-10 in lieu of UG-37 Dear All. However for large openings in specific..ca/IBIndex/ib12-002.April 8 at 4:45pm · Like Static Equipment Group .absa. As far as 1-7 is concerned we know that it is for large opening. And practices follow in your organization. as applicable. It helps mainly for manholes. you may want to look at the following document by the government of Alberta in Canada regarding the use of this Appendix. I am attaching the last paragraph of 1-10 for ready reference…. As we all knows that as per code The rules of Appendix 1-10 may be used in lieu of the rules in UG-37 and 1-7.. Ramesh Tiwari Hemant.

. and Design by analysis will be part 5. Which is actually not in ASME.Facebook . And Alberta has putted up from actual 1-7 requirement.1 will be done way with and Div. I think day is not far when Div. And in near future they will definitely finalize 1-10 as mandatory requirement by replacing UG-37 with 1-10.April 8 at 5:11pm · Like Ramesh Tiwari Hemant. Page 112 of 390 Hemant Solanki Yes. But it is scope decided by Alberta and not ASME.7.1 equipment with Div. Design by rule will be Part 4. E. 2 will be the only ASME Code for design of pressure vessels. So getting comfortable with 1-10 for nozzle reinforcement is a good idea…. I have also gone through Alberta paper. And he is showing that 1-10 is also applicable method from ASME as clear scope is not demarked. in that paper 1-10 is limited to Rn/R not greater than 0.April 8 at 6:02pm · Like Hemant Solanki Heat Exchanger Decision Chart Static Equipment Group . In one of our project vendor is doing 1-10 replacing UG-37. But still clear demarcation is needed between UG-37 and 1-10 scope. All that are true. Note that all are not lies under large opening definition….2 method. As far as I know 1-10 is one more step from ASME to design Div.g.

Static Equipment Group . Arpita Shah and 10 others like this. Rajani Mewada.Facebook . Page 113 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 10 at 6:25pm Kiran Gawade.

Chetan Patel and 3 others like this. Dushyant Verma As per client spec requirement.. For PCE that are fabricated with three legs habing Manway. then Manway should be located on the same orientation as one of the legs ... Page 114 of 390 Hemant Solanki Principle of MAWP Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 18 at 12:01pm Mahendran CM.Facebook . Swapnil Deshmukh. Can anybody knows why such requirement is given ?? Can anybody explain why ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 12 at 12:14pm Static Equipment Group .

. Also. The below answers are result of discussion on other technical forums and discussion with senior technical experts. (3) When person enters the vessel. when person enters the vessel.April 12 at 5:37pm · Like Purav Desai Following are the possible logic for keeping the manway orientation same as one of the leg.April 23 at 6:46pm · Like Static Equipment Group . 3)IF VESSEL WITH INTERNALS….g. in that case. However i think there is some confusion in the requirement the way it is worded. ***FOR BALANCING OF THE VESSEL WHEN MANHOLE IS IN OPEN CONDITION. (2) If manway orientation is not same as one of the leg. Mitul Patel Does anybody come across such requirement?. 2)AS PER PLANT LAYOUT PREFERABLE ORIENTATION FOR ACCESSIBILITY OF MANHOLE. Considering the effect on CG of vessel at a condition when the man-way cover flange is open it is recommended to keep same orientation of man-way and one leg.April 23 at 6:24pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel Heat exchanger requirement Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 23 at 6:20pm via mobile Senthil Anbazhagan likes this.. (1) Vessels with smaller diameter are generally provided with 3 legs. it is based on special tubesheet cases listed in TEMA. there will be additional load acts on the manway to vessel shell connection. Appendix-A. fixed tubesheets with kettle type shell.Facebook .April 23 at 6:23pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As per me. sub clause A-3 (1) Exchangers with large differences in shell and head ID e. when person enters the vessel. Page 115 of 390 Hemant Nikam IF MANHOLE WITH DAVIT ARM BELOW IS THE REASON TO KEEP ORIENTATION SAME AS ONE LEG .. Hence by keeping manway orientation at one leg the other two legs strongly resist the the overturning and thereby balance can be achieved. most of the time the weight of man-way flanges with a davit arrangement is considerable as against the weight of balance vessel. it will act as reinforcement…. If manway orientation is same as one of the leg.************************************ OTHER ARE THE REASONS BASED ON 1) PIPING REQUIREMENT FOR SAME ORIENTATION TO ACCOMMODATE OTHER SHELL NOZZLE. or it is trying to merge Figure UHX-10(b) and kettle type exchanger…. normally its empty and hence such imbalance can lead to overturning of vessel. a little imbalance will occur due to heavy weight of manway cover/davit and weight of person entering vessel.

.com Abstract . Fatigue and Brinelling Evaluation of ASME Extraction Pressure Vessel Closure with Locking Ring . What fabrication issues to be considered. I got it just now from the net!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.April 24 at 7:01am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Senthil is the paper password protected. What are the issues to be taken care if a vessel is under fatigue. You can get the details about the fatigue analysis….See More April 23 at 9:27am · Like · Remove Preview Senthil Anbazhagan Download the above article. Would you mind uploading in FB as u have done innumerous times….April 23 at 9:28am · Like Hemant Solanki Refer File I have uploaded in group .. Request for sharing of experiences Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 23 at 7:35am Senthil Anbazhagan likes this. I am able tor each the page but could not get to it…April 24 at 7:05am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Hemant if it is the Paulin research paper..Closure used to close and open the pressure vessel comes in special t.April 24 at 7:09am · Like 1) Static Equipment Group ..com/IREME- latest/IREME_vol_5_n_5.April 23 at 8:59pm · Like Mitul Patel Client specification…April 23 at 9:00pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran How to fatigue analysis of vessels (whether full FEA or other acceptable options). Senthil Anbazhagan http://www.April 23 at 4:59pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Hemant I sorrry I could not locate the paper.Lat www.praiseworthyprize.html#Fatigue_and_Brinelling_Evaluation_of_ASME_Extraction_Pressure_Vesse l_Closure_with_Locking_Ring.Fatigue Design of Process EQUIPMENT. Page 116 of 390 Prabhakar Harikrishnan is this client spec or code?..Facebook ..praiseworthyprize.

Purav Desai One easiest way is to calculate corrosion rate. which is different for different process fluid. 1 mpy = 0. The material group will give u the basis for selecting the CA. We are not going for any FEM analysis…May 1 at 1:50pm via mobile · Like 2) Purav Desai Static Equipment Group .000 years return period. which considers several parameters to calculate life of equipment. or is that only fatigue is the way out? Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 25 at 12:14pm near Chennai. Corrosion rate is defined in temrs of mils per year (MPY). the life is expected to be 20 years.Generally operating company (owner) are having dedicated team for doing this exercise and to calculate remaining life of equipment….April 26 at 7:30am via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta Hi. Actually when the project calls for such long life the design conditions specified in the project are based on the same.April 25 at 1:45pm · Like · 3 Mihir Jha The fatigue analysis is only required for vessel in cyclic service. The CA is selected for vessel based on design life of vessel. Second way is refer to API 579: Fitness for Service. This is always specified by client for how many years the vessel is designed. Page 117 of 390 Prabhakar Harikrishnan How to calculate or justify the life of an equipment (other than fatigue analysis)? My client data sheet says the life of the equipment shall be 25 years. the wind and FPSO acceleration are based on 10.0254 mm/y. I know the post is old but I can give some idea as in present FPSO project I am working. How is that guaranteed and our codes also say that if a equipment is design as per code. the worst climate conditions that equipment are envisaged to be subjected in their life.. you can easily calculate life of equipment based on considered corrosion allowance.But for such analysis thickness survey is required. and he need design guarantee for the same. So if you have data for corrsion rate. API 579 is used to check for the existing vessel in refinery not for the new vessel. Static can't give the guarantee…. it is guaranteed to be design for 40 years. API-579 calculation is little complex and needs data from online monitoring of equipments…. the client specification calls for design life of 40 years. Tamil Nadu Mitul Patel likes this. When the equipment is design for such conditions and can calculation prove the same. Like in my present project.Facebook .April 25 at 4:17pm via mobile · Like · 1 Prabhakar Harikrishnan thanks Purav Desai & Mihir Jha…April 25 at 9:00pm · Like Mitul Patel Good to know that PV-Elite 2013 covers separate module for API-579.

gasket thickness depends on thermal stress....... However. axial stresses.. Gasket thickness has no role in flange design. Sometimes we go with vendor standard for selection of gasket thickness.May 2 at 8:53am via mobile · Like · 2 Ranaprio Sarkar What I understand after reading EN 13445.. material... external load.May 2 at 7:13am · Like Purav Desai That is correct but what about gasket thickness??? Its my main doubt…. then some of bolt load is used to compress the gasket along its thickness. EN consider everything & its calculation is iterative & complicated one.but in appendix 2 there is no such factor for creep relaxation of gasket. We mostly use metallic gaskets and it may be the reason gasket thickness is not given much of importance….1(i)}. Also refer the attached ASME article on gasket relaxation test…...... What is logic behind selection of gasket (standard/non-standard) thickness? Does gasket thickness is selcetd to maintain structural integrity of gasket? Please share your views.it is same as we compress the sponge ball.. etc.But in ASME make calculation simpler. I have also read somewhere on internet that for non metallic gaskets the gasket relaxation matters more cpmapred to metallic gaskets. When we apply bolt load to flange joint. Its thickness ranges from 2 mm to 6 mm depending on type of gasket. service factor.In PCC-1 calculation there is a factor for creep relaxation. Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 2 at 6:42am Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I can share my views on vendor standard….May 3 at 2:23pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group .May 2 at 10:27am · Like · 1 Purav Desai Further to above.7) {ASME PCC-1 O-4. Bolt Tightening Load..more the thickness more is creep relacation.. ASME sec VIII Div 1 both that.etc by putting some factor m & Y ... Page 118 of 390 As far as I know. constant the gasket thickness.. ASME PCC-1 also says that get the gasket relaxation from gasket manufacturer and if not available consider it as 30% (0. That is why a few operators epc insist on a particular M & Y factor or a particular vendor to optimize flange thickness…... Bolt tension value....May 2 at 10:09am · Like Purav Desai The point mentioned by Rohitash Singh Panwar is correct.May 2 at 7:23am via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar There is a factor known as creep relaxation behaviour of gasket.May 2 at 7:13am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran The gasket m and y factor play a role in flange thickness..Facebook .

Only spherical portion of a torispherical or ellipsoidal head designed for external pressure shall be checked….. Due to this the stress increases in the bottom section and reduces in the upper section. at two shell course junction the thicker shell provide stiffening effect to the upper shell.Please consider hemihead radius in calculation. So. Refer UG-81 (b) .Tank is made up of different shell course. the lower course provides some stiffening to the upper shell course and this results an increase in stress in the upper part of the lower shell course and a reduction in stress in the lower part of the upper shell course.May 5 at 5:00pm · Like · 2 Static Equipment Group .May 6 at 6:18am · Like · 2 4) Ravi Patel Dear All.Facebook . In other words. It was empirically taken in the code that the stress reduces maximum at height 1 foot from the junction and it is that point where hydrostatic pressure to be consider for thickness evaluation. Page 119 of 390 3) Purav Desai For a Storage Tank shell design as per "One Foot Method".3) in metric units?? Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 5 at 6:38pm Mihir Jha 1 stands for one foot which is equivalent to 0.). Where Ro = 0. Which value shall be considered for outside diameter (Do) in dishend template gauge (As per UG-29 & UG-81) ? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 4 at 10:06am via mobile Patel Sudhir For Hemihead : the outside diameter of the heads (Do = Ro * 2).3 m)…May 5 at 8:13pm · Like · 9 Dushyant Verma At the joint between two adjacent shell course. Due to hydrostatic pressure bottom shell course is thicker than upper course..9Do(Approx. Code Assume (Stiffening effect of higher thickess = Effect due to hydrostatic head equivalent to 1 foot or 0. Due to which API 650 assumes that the reduction in stress in the upper shell course reaches a maximum value at one foot (300mm) above the joint that is why effective acting head is measured one foot above the bottom of each shell course….don't use cylinder outside diameter….May 5 at 4:49pm · Like Patel Sudhir For Ellipsoidal and torispherical head : The out side diameter for the heads template (Do = Ro * 2).3 m. What is significance of "One Foot"? Why we consider (H-1) in Inch units or (H-0.

Good to see your post. calculation of shell length..and other side all the vaule decide by software. is not at all covered by PVElite..May 5 at 8:29pm via mobile · Like Bhargav Rudakiya purav. B-Jac does it all with very few inputs…. and ASME compliance. then the radius of the template shall be the design outside radius... If the measurements are made from the inside.it is depend upon the type(tema) what ever u choose.May 6 at 9:46am · Like · 1 5) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran What is the best programme to mechanical design S&T exchangers.. Microprotol? Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 5 at 5:50pm via BlackBerry Purav Desai I have never used Microprotol but have hands on experience for B-Jac (Aspen Shell and Tube Mechanical) and its the best as per me.he can judge size of bolt.if the designer know the input value of the each component of the equipment.... UG-29.and go for a conservative n optimise the design.it is depend upon the designer.. On other hand. Page 120 of 390 Hemant Solanki Deviation from true circular form is measured by using a segmental circular template with a chord length equal to twice the arc length as determined by Fig..I suggest pv elite..2. As i mentioned earlier for heat exchnager design sizing is main part which consist of flange & gasket sizing..May 5 at 7:14pm via mobile · Like Purvish Joshi PV Elite is not Desiging S&T Heat Exchanger. I totally agree with you.Facebook ..May 5 at 9:41pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran My question was more regarding TEMA. floating head sizing etc. Nevertheless I got the answers thanks…May 6 at 12:23am · Like Static Equipment Group .he cant go for preservative side. Sample problem L-4 in nonmandatory Appendix L demonstrates the use of the tolerance rules for vessels under external pressure…..flange size etc.May 5 at 6:14pm · Like Bhargav Rudakiya for the s&t exchanger design. the template radius shall be the design inside radius.. Main part of Heat exchanger design is SIZING which is verywell covered by B-Jac….May 5 at 7:32pm · Like Patel Sudhir According to my experience B-jac aspen is good…. If the measurements are to be taken from the outside.. It just analyse your input…May 5 at 7:29pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Welcome purvish.

My main concern is if we hve gasketed PHE and if Vendor wants to apply test pressure as only 1. is silent on it then you csn accept it with client permission…. Can you share some of its features w. It seems that you have experience of Microprotol..May 6 at 11:45am · Like Chetan Patel If your project spec.1 times DP.May 6 at 3:20pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Purav. Micrrprotol is an intellegent software which does most of the mechanical dimensioning also.3 multiplication factor and stress ratio to determine hydrotest pressure for plate type heat exchangers? API-662 is silent @ calculation of hydrotest pressure.Facebook . However you get lazy with such software as everything is automotic. I feel B-Jac is a good option where there is a bit of manual control….May 6 at 11:16am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Even API-662 part 2 is silent. Can we accept it?. Its a good post. you need to give gasket width and m and y factor flange design is also automatic.May 6 at 12:33pm via mobile · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari you should follow ASME sec 8 div 1 in case of any discrepancy…May 7 at 12:12pm · Like 7) Static Equipment Group .r. design of heat exchangers….t. It says that test pressure shall be in accordance with pressure design code. There is one mis leading sentense in API-662 part 2 whcih says that test @ 150% of design pressure but it is applicable only to bimetal transition pieces.. Page 121 of 390 Purav Desai Hi Mahadevan Venkiteswaran.May 7 at 8:38am · Like · 2 6) Purav Desai Is it necessary to apply 1. You can import the HTRI and a project file for common data like wind seismic etc and give minimum input and you get calculation with drawings. Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 6 at 10:25am Chetan Patel Yes you are right part 1 of api 662 for gasketed is silent on hydrotest presuure requirement….

I did some fatigue analysis for some agitator nozzles before. and shall limit the shell combined stress to be less than the allowable stress derived from table 3-F. and if table 5-9 is met. shell local thickness might be increased to reduce the stress. By doing so. Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 29 at 10:31pm Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Hello guys! Any response…May 5 at 5:37pm · Like Wang Shun Hi Maha. how are you doing? I had some experiences in fatigue analysis. If using method B.Facebook . I am recently working in a project where there are more startup and shutdown cycles and zero pressure or temperature cycle. Also in cyclic service. Page 122 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran What does screening method A and B really signify in Div 2. refer to PD 5500 Annex C. Either using method A or method B. method B can be used. the basis/foundation of method B is that at difference operating cycles. If not meeting table 5-9. Client needs to frequently start / stop the operation in 20 years. nozzle shall be self-reinforced (no repad allowed) and fillet weld shall be fatigue finish….May 7 at 8:45pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Wang thanks for the response. Hence Screening A is out and supplier had done direct fea and found out that allowable cycle is more than 10000.May 7 at 10:42pm · Like 8) Indrapandian K In my HX datasheet. eventually the actual material allowable stress will be reduced. Experts in Fatigue please throw light. Can there be a different result if method B is followed. it is mentioned in notes that baffle material shall be compatible with Tube material. However my doubt was why screening B is so complicated. similar method. I feel by screening method A it is bound to fail.. of allowable cycles is more than required for the given geometry. the cycles shall be knows first (per operating condition).. My case is a vessel with startup and shutdonw cycle alone 10000 and no operating cycles. The simplest way is to follow method A. I understood your methods. As per screening criteria A only 1000 cycles is allowed and it exceeds the client requirement.May 7 at 8:33pm · Like Wang Shun Btw. then perform WRC 107 local stress calculation. By the way I came to know EN 13445 is liberal with respect to fatigue?. After getting this allowable stress. (total cycle can be determined accordingly). then no detail analysis is required. In general. What is the reason for this and what will happen if we take deviation? Static Equipment Group .. that allowable stress is reduced with the cycles increased). then follow the procedure.(as you can see in table 3-F. The supplier did a FEA and proved that the no. but easier to understand. the material allowable stress will be reduced per table 3-F.

Vibration is main issue....the fluid at certain location becomes stagnant. And different metallurgy of baffle and tubes will become anode and cathode... I have also seen clients allowing different materials for tubes and baffles.May 7 at 8:52pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Crevice generates when two different metallurgy gets in minute area contact number of times.plzz correct me if i m wrong...May 7 at 8:51pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I think crevice corrosion will happen only when electrolyte is present on shell side.Facebook .i... it recommend to use CS baffles for copper alloy tubes only in non corrosive non aqueous service.so the cell will form between less concentration fluid and more concentration fluid and corrosion will start.. So its batter that both have same metallurgy…..May 7 at 10:09pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Both of the above points (corrosion and vibration) are valid reasons for considering baffle materials same as tubes. There will be no anode or cathode generation….... At that contact area corrosion will start by means of electrolyte cell generation..Crevice is also form due to the difference in concentration of same fluid at different locations.May 7 at 8:45pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar The one more reason is to avoid the failure of tube or baffle at junction due to the difference in the hardness of baffle and tube due to vibration if different material is used. as u said due to vibration baffle wl be continuously impacting on tube outer surface at minute area. Page 123 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 7 at 8:41pm via mobile Hemant Solanki I think it is to avoid crevice corrosion by means of generation of electro-chemical cell which starts corrosion at baffle to tube junction within baffle holes..May 7 at 10:03pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I think Crevice corrosion can take place for same metallurgy too. in betwwen tubes or baffle or at the flange joints..so the amount of oxygen present is used for oxidation of metal. In order to avoid that same metallurgy will serve the purpose. As per shell DEP. Shell fluid will provide electrolytic environment........ evenif tube/bafffle materials are same but if exchanger is not properly Static Equipment Group .e..May 7 at 9:34pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Do all fluids acts like electrolyte....if the fluid is not acting as electrolyte then no crevice corrosion will occur..so they concentration of that fluid will change at that location in comparision to fluid in shell.. gap between tube and baffle holes will encourage such kind of corrosion.

or vice a varsa. Refer the attached article published in Hydrocarbon Processing on Vibration Failure of tubes…. And if the Baffles are of higher hardness.. I guess the speciality is thin tubesheet and flexible tubesheet so that bellows can be avoided in a typical NEN type @ Purav any reference Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 9 at 6:59am Arpita Shah and 2 others like this.If the baffle material is harder than tube then baffle may damage the tubes.May 10 at 12:53am via mobile · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta Agree with Ashay........ Further Static Equipment Group . reducing the Life time of the Equipment.....May 11 at 6:40am via mobile · Like 9) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Has anyone done tubesheet design as per asme section 1 for condensers..May 8 at 4:34pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan More than corrosion. It also depends on the nature of the Fluids used…... it will erode due to vibration.. even if it is not going to corrode. The analysis is relatively simple compared to UHX. Purav Desai I myself did not perform design and analysis for thin flexible tubesheet as per ASME Sec I but have verified calculations in some past projects.. It is calculated considering tubesheet as stayed plate wherein it is assumed that tubesheet is being supported by tubes.. So it is better and safe to have the same metallurgy for tubes and baffles…. In all HEs.May 8 at 7:34am · Like · 1 Deepesh Shrivastava One more view on the same question... And donot think it is big deal.. Erosion is one of main reason. So donot think takin deviation is correct…. Tubes are considered as stays.. Normally Tubes are with Higher metallurgy as tubes do not have corrosion allowances.May 8 at 4:41pm · Like · 1 Ashay Kadam This to avoid contact corrosion... For Duplex tubes.. The word is 'Compatible' and not 'same'. it will quickly damage the tubes.... CS baffles in contact with SS tubes can damage cromium oxide layer on SS surface of tubes and further initiate corrosion.. the Tubes are of lower thickness..May 8 at 2:16pm · Like Shreyas Sutar One more reason is hardness.. I need some info / sample drawing calculation... baffle is usually (depends on Shell side fluid too) SS 304 or 316.Facebook . It is very similar to UG-47. Page 124 of 390 designed for vibration then tubes can fail.

I had done Sulphur Condensers in one project in L&T. Page 125 of 390 conventional firetube boilers have BFW on shell side and hot gas running inside the tubes.Facebook . Refer to section PG 46 for design of Stayed Surface. What is stayed plate.May 10 at 6:56am via mobile · Like Deepesh Shrivastava Hi Purav. These portion of the tubesheet is supported by additional support welded to shell at one end and tubesheet at other end. I have read it. with stays spread symmetrically... As Purav rightly said.. Please refer attachment….May 11 at 6:55am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .com/#!/groups/staticequipment/573920709309291/ Static Equipment Group May 10 at 3:43pm · Like · Remove Preview Mrudang Mehta Hi Guys. design is much simpler than UHX design….May 9 at 2:24pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Purav thanks.. I am not able to see your attachment you are referring too. Stay bolts are designed as per PG 47 and the ligament of tube sheet are to be check as per PG 53 as openings in tube sheet are donot for definitive pattern in tubesheet. For the steam separation on shellside. So the tube sheet is designed as Stayed surface.. The tubes get is designed as designed as per Section VIII Div 1 as the tubes are only in bellow half or shall and not symmetrically distributed like S&T HXs.May 10 at 5:52am · Like Purav Desai As its name its the plate which is stayed inplace by means of tubes or bolts or any other means of support under design conditions…..facebook. what does it mean?.. Sorry for late response.. tubesheet is perforated partially (no tubes in top half of tubesheet). It is better to ask vendor to verify the analysis by FEA software…May 9 at 2:14pm · Like Purav Desai I found a verygood article related to thin flexible tubesheet. May 10 at 1:54pm · Like Purav Desaihttps://www.

I also happen to see reference dwg of Ilsung which matches ur reply. So surely it would be U stamped. Second option is it may be that only pressure parts as per Sec Viii Div 1 are U stamped and overall equipment is certified by approved 3rd Party certification authority like Llyods or DNV. send it to me at mihir. shell & tube stresses for these cases? Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 11 at 7:45pm Vishal Patil It seems that the reason behind this is hidden inside the Pe formula stated in UHX-17. Sorry cannot give direct answer as not sure….May 9 at 11:56am · Like Static Equipment Group .jha2@gmail. But I remember that the project that at sulphur condenser was Qatar Petroleum Gas (QPG). and hence it is informed to check cases from 1 to 3 as there is no consideration for expansion…. Ro-s ration without flange tubesheet is Ds/Do similar to Dj/Do. careful extraction of formula shows that all parameters related to expansion joints are removed except Dj however the placement of Dj is just like the placement of Ds which is shell ID..Thats a tough one .com Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 9 at 11:53am Senthil Anbazhagan likes this..Facebook . it seems expansion joint is treated as increased dia shell. Senthil Anbazhagan You can go for FEM to do accurate load analysis for GRP nozzles.You can refer code guidelines to select the loads and moments for analysis….. Question is how is U stamp achieved with mix of Second VIII and Second I code…May 11 at 8:00am · Like Mrudang Mehta @Mahadevan. Page 126 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @mrudang thanks for good reply.May 12 at 5:50am · Like · 1 11) Mihir Jha How to do the local load anaysis for nozzles of GRP vessel? Which code to be followed? If anyone has some reference.May 11 at 3:07pm · Like 10) Sachin Pawar Hello everyone. I guess it is only possible in S.Korea where the AI accepts a mix of code…. Does anyone know what is the logic behind running calculations for load case 1 to 3 as per UHX-17? Because these load cases are not related to thermal expansion hence what is the use of checking tubesheet.May 11 at 9:26am via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Thanks Mrudang...

I think vendor will give only the allowable nozzle which will be given to piping stress. Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 9 at 8:18pm  Arpita Shah. Piping has to design upstream and downstream piping to limit within allowable . Static Equipment Group . Hence this should not be an issue.May 12 at 9:39am via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran As such there should be less piping load. Page 127 of 390 Mihir Jha In case of GRP vessel. I guess GRP piping if supported well should give only sustained load. I have worked for caustic plants where FRP vessels and pipes are common….group.May 12 at 1:12pm · Like · 1 12) Purav Desai Teflon Sliding Plate Assembly for Saddle supported Vessels/Exchangers.Facebook . GRP piping should have less thermal expansion. Ramdas Kadam and Basheer Mohamed like this. Please correct me if the explaination is wrong….

for small vessel and less corrosive environment you can use ss plate insted of teflon. I do not agree.May 11 at 9:12pm · Like Purav Desai But what @ my main doubt. cs to cs once corroded increases the friction across these plates. MRPL. Further their saddle standard drawing also shows a single sliding plate. and used also where equipment saddle are welded to structure. very little chances of corrosion means constant friction rate through out equipment life…. instead if u use SS plate. we use ss plate to avoid corrosion and instead of tack welding we apply full fillet welding to both ss plate with their base plate in more corrosive environment. Page 128 of 390 Suraj Kr Tiwari its very simple. Again Teflon Pad adhesive bonded to SS Plate which is welded to base Plate for saddle…. GGSR etc. Further if corrosion is the concern let me share something. Mihir post is for stringent case. there are total 5 plates are used.. mirror finished ss plates are widely used for this purpose but no doubt to minimise the k we use ptfe plate bonded to lower sliding ss plate if client spec call for it or as per good eng. And for eqpts located on steel structure sliding plate is generally not required….May 12 at 4:55am · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari Purav go through vishal post. JACOBS etc. with PMCs EIL..May 11 at 10:54pm · Like Vishal Patil SS to SS contact is made to reduce the friction coefficient.outside india the prevalence of teflon is more.May 9 at 8:45pm via mobile · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari sliding plate are allways made of ss. the attachment sent by you refer only one type. HPCL. BPCL.5mm/3 mm Thk) is adhesive bonded to SS Plate. Static Equipment Group .there are rest more. why only sliding plate gets corroded why not saddles??. Teflon Pad (1. None of these owner or PMC specifies to use two SS plates as sliding plate as explaine in above two posts.May 12 at 7:51am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Sorry.May 9 at 8:37pm · Like Purav Desai How only sliding plate gets corroded? What about saddle material??? Is it also SS to prevent from atmospheric corrosion? This is simple but sounds interesting. normaly we use one ptfe plate bonded to ss slide plate welded to sole but in india in mostly cases only mirror finished ss slide plates thk 10 mm one welded to base plate and anothet one to sole plate…. As far as i know sliding plate is always grouted inside concrete foundation which eliminates corrosion issues.May 11 at 9:20pm via mobile · Like Mihir Jha As per one of the company standard.this is what i want say. I also have done projects for Indian Clients like IOCL. Practice…. Soul plate which is CS embedded in concrete generally 10Thk.Facebook . TEIL.This CS Soul Plate is welded to SS Plate (Thickness Varies - 3mm/ 6mm).OMPL.. mainly in heating medium vessels or heaters….

3. In normal case we use mirror finished ss plates…May 12 at 5:58pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .May 12 at 5:36pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari It is clearly written for high tem(250 Fº) or thermal exp more than 6 mm slide plate may be provided. Further. I already attached PIP standard drawings referred in 5.3. not in each case as told by you.https://www. PIP standard did not specifies anything which you stated very confidently.facebook.com/#!/groups/staticequipment/575003082534387/ Static Equipment Group May 12 at 12:52pm · Like · Remove Preview Suraj Kr Tiwari It is not matter of just sending of doc.Facebook .Firstly u go through section 5. I am looking for Indian Owner/PMC requirements of SS sliding plates which was stated by you. I think u should go through some international standards like shell or pip….. I think u don't read my post thoroughly…. Page 129 of 390 CS sliding plate is supplied in hot dip galvanized condition and bottom of saddle base plate is also hot dip galvanized to cater to the corrosion issue.May 12 at 8:04am · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari There is a huge diff between galvanized plate and mirror finshed ss plate in terms of corrosion resistance life and cost. Studs are widely used in dip galvanized form but major clients uses ss sliding plate in lieu of cs. So. i request you to share some of the owner spec or standard drawings which shows such two SS plate arrangement…. I think u didnot visited my full attachment.2 but there are no sliding plate details.May 12 at 3:58pm via mobile · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari I have allready these standards and the latest one.May 12 at 12:28pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Suraj Kr Tiwari..May 12 at 3:47pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai @Suraj kr Tiwari. And also sharw indian owner/pmc spec which i requested u…..12. Please go thru it once again. then u find ans of your all ? There are allways seperate standard for sliding arrangement…. Refer attached extracts of PIP standards for your ready reference.2 sent by you.12.

I requested you to share such requirement but you didnot.. OPAL. The main discussion point was the use of SS sliding plates and two nos. Hope sooner or later you will share that Indian Owner spec. IOCL but never used ptfe arrangement in each case.Facebook . in none of my post I said that I used PTFE (telfon sliding plates) in all cases.. Reallly i amazed.. Ir is neither amazing nor wrong if somebody has never seen any owner specification specifying requirement of SS sliding plate and moreover 2 nos SS sliding plates. please do not change the subject of discussion/debate.. Unfortunately that too doesnot specify requirement to use SS sliding plates. it means allways delta t is more than 250 or delta l is more than 6 mm . Instead you referred some international standards. as explained by you. Where does PIP standard states that? I also referred to Shell DEP which also does not states use of SS sliding plates. Page 130 of 390 Purav Desai Suraj Kr Tiwari.. I said clearly it is used only in cases where friction force on bolts/saddles to be reduced.. And thats the reason. practise…... NOCL.. In most cases i used ss mirror finished plates tack welded to base plate and sole or deck plate. My only doubt from 1st reply for this post was why to use SS sliding plates? And later on my doubt was why to use two SS plates. No more post from my side. if your client is not bother abt cost. I also worked for ONGC. SS sliding plates.May 12 at 6:14pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari It is easily understood by anyone when ptfe is not required then what kind of arrangement to be provided between saddle base plate and structure.May 12 at 6:48pm · Like Purav Desai Suraj Kr Tiwari. Anyways its a nice debate…. As per your previous post it showed you used every where ptfe . Please share such document so group members can come to know new practices adopted in Industry…. Further more you are not sharing Indian Owner/PMC standard where you have applied two nos..May 12 at 6:58pm · Like Static Equipment Group . RELIANCE.some times u should follow what called good eng.

Facebook . Page 131 of 390 13) Suraj Kr Tiwari Sliding arrangement with single PTFE Static Equipment Group .

how can we know the requirement of "Teflon Sliding Plate"? If the Saddle Statndard Drawing is showing only the slotted holes requirement in the base plate. Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Page 132 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 13 at 9:55am via mobile 14) Mihir Jha In case of horizontal vessel.

Hence for pressure vessel.May 7 at 7:45am · Like Dushyant Verma The friction force is caused by expansion or contraction of the vessel shell if the opertaing tem.e Operating Temp. Whereas in case of pressure vessel. combined with wind or earthquake loads. For small temp. differnce.May 8 at 7:38am · Like Dushyant Verma If operating teperature varies from atmospheric temperature (Large or small) then there is chance of expansion orcontraction . if a large temperature movement of the vessel is expected . Then the saddle reaction force Q can be calculated. F2 shall be less than F1 to allow the vessel to expand. induced. There is no temp. which stops the vessel to expand)…May 7 at 8:42pm · Like · 2 Mihir Jha I agree with Wang Shun & Dushyant Verma. that is why we are using slidind plate for vessel also depending upon weight. we have the temp. difference. teflon pad has friction factor less than 0. Dushyant Verma Generally . In case of Heat Exchanger. Thermal expansion force(horizontal force) F1 can be calculated by using thermal coefficient and temperature difference.May 7 at 7:51am · Like · 2 Suraj Kr Tiwari Sliding & sole plate is only used where saddle is welded to deck plate or structure.(assume half of the vessel weight). to reduce the max. Page 133 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 7 at 6:54am Tejas Shah likes this. varies from atmospheric tem. (friction force)…May 8 at 7:58am · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . In your case saddle is bolted to structure…. otherwise even slot holes are provided on the sliding saddle.Facebook . horizontal force to overcome the friction is F2 = Q x f. then the max. there is only one temp. we do not have to consider any sliding saddle. the design load for the saddle supports are the operating wt. The purpose of providing the teflon pad is to reduce the friction factor between sliding saddle and teflon pad. And assume the friction factor is f.1. the vessel won't expand. due to heave weight of the vessel. i. However .(normally. you are not supposed to use sloted hole bolting arrangement and sliding plate arrangement simultaneously. Hence. the friction force between saddles and foundation and also the test weight…. or large friction factor. Please clarify…. a special self lubricating bearing plate (sliding plate) with a low friction coefficient (than steel to concrete) must be provided to reduce the expansion force…. friction force. shell length changes and saddle with the supporting structure can be made strong and flexible enough to resist the thermal force.May 7 at 11:40am · Like Wang Shun Sliding saddle is provided allowed vessel to have thermal expansion..

I agree with Dushyant Verma. So steel sliding plates are used to reduce the frictional force since they have low coefficient of friction..May 8 at 11:37am · Like Mihir Jha Kumar Kashyap Based on the study and reference from different project. both have a shell body with operating temperature…. Teflon Pad is required only for heavy equipment. it is found that requirement of teflon pad is not dependent on the expansion or contraction. You only confused yourself with difference in exchanger and pressure vessel with temperature difference and all as mentioned above.May 9 at 11:50am · Like Kumar Kashyap Mihir Jha thts what I told you before. In that case instead of steel sliding plates teflon plates can be used whose coefficient of friction is very less. NO Sliding plate then anchor bolt will FAIL. And sometime if thermal movement is very high. The weight is only the criteria for the requiement of teflon pad. In Two project. there are numerous type of sliding arrangement even considering the environment type. It is basic principle that any metal expands when exposed to temperature higher than atmosphere.. there is no connection of type of sliding arrangement with piping. friction coefficent is not play a major role but weight does.May 9 at 6:35pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . when equipment is too heavy then frictional force will also be very high resulting in very high longitudnal stresses at the junction. regarding the expansion / contraction is a relative term with respect to fixed node which shall be taken care by Piping. we don't need to go in detail anymore…. So. The saddle standard hole size is capable of taking the expansion/contraction for the general case which has expalained by Dushyant. where the layout is a mazor constraint then this expansion or contraction play a mazor role in deciding the type of support of the equipment but still this will be finalized by Piping.. Genrally all horizontal equipment are provided with sliding plates setting on concrete to reduce the frictional force. Teflon sliding plate is also provided for equipments operating at higher temperatures irrespective of weight. Higher frictional coefficient results in higher longitudnal stresses at the junction due to high frictional force.May 9 at 2:25pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Agreed with Kumar Kashyap above. So if there is no sliding plate then the thermal expansion (movement) is RESTRICTED between two saddles which exert additional stresses on saddles and anchor bolts. Some classic examples are waste heat boilers and furnaces of Sulfur Recovery Unit. you can predict the length of sloted hole if thermal forces are more. for offshore and fpso sliding arrangement play a vital role becoz we use clamping for sliding saddle so various type of sliding arrangement are used depending upon client spec. However for special case. Our company has taken the teflon pad for vessel having operating weight greater than 50 Tons (Good Engineering Practice). For heat exchangers saddles and anchor bolts an additional check is done for the longitudinal force exerted due to bundle puling condition…. Since it is already clear to you now as you menyioned above. However. requirement…. Anchor bolts will experience shear stress in this condition. rollers are also provided at sliding end. Please give your view if anyone have some different idea…. slot hole dimensions are decided based on expansion due to temperature difference. So if thermal movement is higher. Page 134 of 390 Kumar Kashyap Mihir Jha why there is a differnce in using sliding plate for exchanger & vessel? what temp. life span of teflon plate is small so in major cases we use ss sliding plate. they only provide the saddle for sloted and fixed considering piping routing to minimize external forces on nozzles.May 9 at 4:43pm · Like · 2 Suraj Kr Tiwari everybody is saying the same thing with change in language. difference r u looking for? doesn't matter S&T or pressure vessel.Facebook ..

how does it make difference? Refer the attached extract of Dennis Moss book which clearly states that steel to steel friction factor is 0.. So I understand that either u use CS sliding plate or SS sliding plate it doesnot make any difference.4.226151964086169&ty pe=1&theater Photos from Mihir Jha's post in Static Equipment Group By: Mihir Jha…. Now i think someone is able know diff. There is no meaning in providing only SS sliding plate as the contact remains between steel to steel i.4…. Teflon is always bonded to SS or CS plate.e. friction coefficient remains same 0.com/#!/photo.Facebook . Page 135 of 390 Purav Desai Suraj Kr Tiwari.php?fbid=10152225714645288&set=o. in india i used in some projects only ss to sole to ss to base plate tack welding and both ss plate are free to move on each other for small vessels…May 9 at 7:12pm · Like Purav Desai Correct Suraj Kr Tiwari. Teflon is never provided as alone sliding plate.May 9 at 8:18pm · Like · 1 Mihir Jha https://www.May 9 at 6:48pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari you can use single teflon plate also bonded with sole plate. but i am not understanding if u use SS sliding plate.May 13 at 8:59am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . When we use teflon sliding plate plate there are two plates provided both bonded with teflon and thereby making teflon to teflon contact and reducing friction coefficient (~0.May 13 at 8:19am · Like · Remove Preview Suraj Kr Tiwari Good work. Please let me know if there is any logic for using SS sliding plate instead of CS….facebook. i am trying to say there are numerous type of arrangement for this depending upon client spec and use. b/w ss and cs plate in use for sliding arrangenent…. I think you mis understood the concept of teflon sliding plate.1).

and many other well-known Owner/PMC standards specify to use only Single sliding plate. SA 350 LF series can be utilised without any impact testing because LF itself means Low temperature Forging application which by default contains in its specification testing requirements of these flanges so that it can be used at low temperature…. FYI. In Petro Rabigh project.UCS-66. Curve B is applicable for SA 266-Gr. Two nos SS sliding plates can be accepted as good engineering practice if some owner already adopted it and modified their standard accordingly. TOYO standard. But the main objective is to select what is best suited for the given application with optimum cost. But till today no such standard is shared in this forum. So as per Curve B upto 10 mm thickness this flange can be used upto -29°C without impact testing. UCS-66. Take an example of Shell DEP. Page 136 of 390 Purav Desai General requirements are given everywhere. Temperature? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 11 at 11:19pm Patel Sudhir All standard flanges of ferritic steels are exempted as per UCS-66 (c) upto -29 °C. Requirement of Teflon sliding plate is defined in Haldor Topsoe Standard with reference to Weight requirement and details are similar as some pictures were posted in this forum so that can be adopted as good engineering practice. This is clear indication that till date most Owners‟ prefers to use Single CS sliding plate arrangement and its working very well in the filed too.May 12 at 4:08pm · Like Hemant Solanki As per Fig. it has to be impact tested at -29°C as per UG-84.May 15 at 12:55pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . Now let me give some recent example and trend followed by Owners. If it is a non standard forging and falls under impact test requirement as per UCS-66. CHIYODA standard. I am repeating my request to share Owner/PMC Sliding plate standard with SS material and two nos mirror finished.. In my opinion you can go for SA 350 LF2 CL 1 material for non standard forging as there is no much difference in cost…. Here governing thickness is nominal divided by 4.May 14 at 5:57am · Like 15) Arpita Shah Can we use SA 266 Cl.2 flange. After that I will be happy to incorporate it wherever needs…May 14 at 5:47am · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari Now atleast someone talking abt single sliding arrangement…. If we use normalised flanges then same limit can be extended to -48°C for same thickness (Curve C). saddle standard drawing indicates to use single CS sliding plate. You just check what is MDMT for your equipment and then compare with Fig.Facebook . This is a MEGA project which has more than 2000 static equipments in overall.2 material upto -29 Deg.

There are a few clients who restrict the use of 266 beyond -29…. Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 16 at 7:12am 17) Hemant Solanki New ASME BPVC Publication Schedule: Effective July 2010 New ASME BPVC Publication Schedule: Effective July 2010 Effective with the 2010 edition. according to the following schedule: 2010: New edition BPVC released in July 2011: Addenda consisting of a complete reprint of the books incorporating all changes 2012: No addenda 2013: New edition BPVC 2014: No addenda Static Equipment Group . Addenda will be phased out and a complete set of Code books will be published every two years.May 15 at 1:53pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran SA765 is good at lower temperatures…May 15 at 4:45pm · Like 16) Purav Desai TEMA 9th Edition Updates as on May 2013. Page 137 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Check with your client standard. ASME is moving the Boiler Pressure Vessel Code from a 3- year publication schedule to a 2-year schedule.Facebook .

etc. ASME will adjust the BPVC price to reflect the subsequent lack of addenda. etc. 5. 2. etc. 2014. With no Addenda. and thus no need to insert them into the BPVC Binders. 2014. you will receive the complete 2011 BPVC reprint. There will continue to be Summaries of Changes published in each BPVC Edition.. Why has ASME changed the BPVC publishing cycles from three years to two years? With no Addenda. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 16 at 12:37pm via Email Kiran Gawade and Purav Desai like this.) 4. these changes will not be posted or emailed in years during which there is no BPVC edition/addenda being published (i.e. at no charge. and republished as a new edition on a cycle concurrent with the rest of the BPVC. and also in July of each year during which there is no BPVC edition/addenda being published (i. ASME believes the reduction of one year in the BPVC publishing cycle will be more responsive to user needs. 2012. 18) Arpita Shah Does anybody have o-bound type flange calculation guideline? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 4 at 8:49am via mobile Mahadevan Venkiteswaran What is o-bound type?. as they are published. Interpretations will be posted on the ASME website in January of each year.May 6 at 9:35am · Like Static Equipment Group . however. For 2012. How will future editions of the BPVC be priced? What will these prices include? If you purchase the complete 2010 BPVC. How will changes to the BPVC be identified in each new edition? How else will the changes be identified and delivered? Changes to the 2013 BPVC will be identified as they are in current editions: in the margins by notation as per year of the change. With each July publication of the BPVC. 2012..Facebook . which includes Addenda.. Is ASME going to publish BPVC Code Cases and Interpretations following the same schedule as the Addenda? Code Cases will continue to be published quarterly between BPVC editions..). 3. However. The complete 2012 BPVC price will include the current Interpretations and Code Cases. Frequently Asked Questions 1. Page 138 of 390 2015: New edition BPVC. users may also purchase Interpretations and Code Cases separately. Assimilating all changes into one publication should create a more user-friendly reference. Interpretations will be included. will there still be holes punched in the BPVC pages? There will still be holes punched for the convenience of the user to remove pages as needed.e.

use this long.ll confirm to B16. I tried my best to cover all critical requirements of API 660 related to design. it can be discussed here for the benifit of static equipment group members. PV Newsletter . OD and number of bolts. In your case the opening shape is obround.May 18 at 5:08pm via mobile · Like · 1 Patel Sudhir Compress also have pad type nozzle facility but it is limited to circular shape only. hence it will have 2 paralle side and semicircular ends. The idea to make such comparison between API 660 and TEMA came to my mind after replying to Mahadevan Venkiteswaran query in Linked In group.5 standard for BCD.May 2013_API 660 Vs.May 19 at 5:20pm · Like 19) Purav Desai uploaded a file. TEMA.pdf Preview · Download · Upload Revision Static Equipment Group .Facebook .. If the major axis of your obround opening is in longitudinal direction. however if some group members found additional requirements. Page 139 of 390 Arpita Shah Means the flange is like sight glass light glass…May 7 at 9:38pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Is it pad type flange? They are usually used to mount sight glasses for pharma / chemical plants. Please do not miss to subtract the tapped hole area loss…. Calcullation you can always check with software…May 8 at 9:18am · Like Hemant Solanki PAd trype flange sha. It shall be projected minimum 50 mm out of shell surface. There is reference for dimensions. Pvelite is having option of taking flange type as pad type in nozzle manu…May 11 at 11:09am · Like Arpita Shah Flange shape is not circular so we can not check in pvelite and this flange is not used as sight glass and light glass…. axis dimension and model the pad type nozzle as circular one for the area calculation.May 7 at 10:37pm · Like Arpita Shah yes…May 8 at 8:22am via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Check Eil standards.

Facebook . Page 140 of 390 Static Equipment Group .

Page 141 of 390 Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

Mihir Jha Useful article…. Mahadevan.V Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone…...!May 16 at 8:59pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran thanks Purav for the acknowledgement. Page 142 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 16 at 8:55am Arpita Shah.Facebook .May 19 at 6:20pm · Like 20) Static Equipment Group .. Rohitash Singh Panwar and 8 others like this...May 17 at 12:21pm · Like Mitul Patel Good work Purav keep it up!!!!..May 16 at 1:21pm via mobile · Like Basheer Mohamed Indeed worth to understand the differences and found API 660 has more stringent requirement. Ramdas Kadam.ty.

. So diameter of insert plate shall be considered as before transition...May 19 at 8:48pm via mobile · Like 21) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Has anyone done mounded bullets as per EEMUA 190. Masqat Hemant Solanki Insert plate is non other than increase in local shell thickness.. How to ensure the load case of differential settlement Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 13 at 8:00am Aniket Sawant likes this.FEA is mandatory for differential settlement as per EEUMA 190….May 18 at 5:27am · Like Mitul Patel I have worked for the mounded bullet for recent proposal.May 19 at 6:19pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Any experience sharing???????????????.. In Pvelite as you mentioned specify local shell thickness to take credit of insert plate. Similarly thickness also need to restrict as pere Fig-UG-37.. and also remember that insert plate going to attach with shell by appropriate transition (1/3 or 1/4). This will be used if we going to limit diameter of insert plate less than twice opening diamtere.. Page 143 of 390 Veera Mani hi. In other words beyond this limit you can not take credit of increase in local shell thickness.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 18 at 11:53pm near Azaiba. Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Ding dong! Guys wake up…May 15 at 4:43pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran My question is towards the exact methodology of analysis as specified by EIL or EEMUA. if you do not enter this then pvelite will by default follows twice diamtere limit of Fig UG-37.but dimesion how to calculate in pv elite any option is there. UG-37 you need to restrict its dimension upto twice opening diameter. As far as diameter is concerned there is one input in nozzle menu.May 19 at 11:11am · Like · 1 Veera Mani thanks…. just enter insert plate diameter there.kindly explain how to calculate the insert plate dimension. Just remember that in nozzle menu these options are given only to take care UG-37 calculations.in pv ellite we can give local thickness . As if you going to consider insert plate diameter with transition then you need to take care reduction in available shell area due to transition…..Facebook . So as per Fig. it is named as limit diamtere. so if significant weight contributes by insert plate then add the same in your Pvelite file.

How is it analysed in FEA. Till then see if any other member could respond to it….May 22 at 9:55pm · Like 22) Thiruppathi Rajan Can any one guide me for fixing the floating head depth for floating type Shell & Tube Heat exchanger Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 22 at 1:08pm Tejas Shah likes this. maximum loads at the ends (spherical) will help in reducing the shell thickness at the center. Tejas Shah Even i also find fr this question. There are two cases where the center portion of the bullet is at max settlement and the ends at half.May 22 at 1:31pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Thank you for raising this post.May 21 at 9:21pm · Like Avedhesh Gupta Conceptually. But as I said. I need to read allover again. but surely will share…. There is another case where the center is at half load and the ends are at max load for settlement. Deciding inside depth of for floating head is an iterative process because it shall meet the requirements given in TEMA R-5.Facebook .11 and CB-5. Page 144 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Hi Mitul…May 20 at 5:51am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran My question is on the uneven settlement case if the bullet is mounted directly on sand. need to restore a lot….....May 22 at 7:12am · Like Avedhesh Gupta Sir.May 20 at 5:54am · Like Avedhesh Gupta Its been a longtime once I got the opportunity to analyze different design cases of mounded bullet.. ok noted. Does this actully increase the bullet shell thickness.. Can any one have idea of crown radius of floating head ?. May be will restore and revert in detail later. But I guess there is also a load case where the max load is at the center!. Is the whole bullet allowed to act freely to the loads or any restrictions to be provided….11 which states that. “For multi pass floating head covers the inside depth shall be such that the minimum cross over area Static Equipment Group .May 21 at 9:25pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Avedhesh.

L (Inside crown radius) shall be as per UG-32. any thump rule for find the crown radius of floating head…May 22 at 6:50pm · Like Purav Desai Generally crown radius for flaoting head is considered as (0.May 25 at 1:51pm · Unlike · 1 Thiruppathi Rajan thanks for your information…May 25 at 5:29pm · Like Static Equipment Group . this part will be sensitive…. VIII Div. And for such cases as per TEMA R-2.May 22 at 2:49pm · Like Thiruppathi Rajan Thanks for your information. This hr location will govern the Flange thickness and it should be for nominal Floating head thickness.Facebook . minimum tube pitch shall be 1.25 x Tube OD) because higher tube pitch reduces the shell side thermal performance and also increases the exchanger size and in a way shoots up the cost. But it needs to be verified as per TEMA requirements for cross flow area…. also. as per ASME Sec.” The later requirement is mainly applicable to single pass floating head exchangers where nozzle is located in floating head with/without expansion joint (axial nozzle). Prabhakar Harikrishnanr correct me if i missed something….9 x floating head flange inside diameter).3 times the flow area thru tubes of one pass.25 tube OD….8 or 0. there a option in Pvelite for providing Distance between Head centroid to head Centerline.May 22 at 7:00pm · Like · 1 Thiruppathi Rajan Thanks for your information…May 23 at 1:59pm · Like 23) Thiruppathi Rajan As per TEMA. For the cases where tube cleaning is required from outside. generally square (90º) or rotated square (45º) picth is considered. Page 145 of 390 for flow between successive tube passes is at least equal to 1. For single pass floating head covers the depth at nozzle centre line shall be a minimum of 1/3 of the ID of nozzle. Also. hr value.5 tube pitch shall be calculated for maintaining minimum cleaning lane of 6. 1 Appendix-1 sub clause 1-6..May 22 at 2:16pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan You are right Purav Desai. What will be the maximum? Is there any limitations? please suggest Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 23 at 2:00pm Purav Desai Tube Pitch shall always be kept minimum as given TEMA (1.25 times of outside diameter of tube. This shall also be considered.4 mm. This can be larger than 1..

But gland packing arrangement needs precise machining….May 29 at 9:16am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .May 28 at 6:24pm · Like · 1 Manoj Prasad Yes as explained by Hemant Solanki…May 28 at 6:36pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran There are a few handbooks which has an indicative sketch of such arrangement!. Htas is using gland packing which more sturdy then shell's expansion bellow.. There are two types arrangements one is by shell and other is by HTAS.. But in order to do that it will not serve the purpose of expansion and contraction. In that case it is required to provide internal bellow at floating head to tube outlet nozzle junction because in order to give one pass flow it is required to cut nozzle at floating head and corresponding in line shell head. And then nozzle shall be fitted. You hv to take care of tube side nozzle on floating head. Is this possible to accommodate one pass (tube side) on AES or any TEMA floating type exchanger? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 28 at 5:54pm Hemant Solanki I have seen such exchanger where type was of floating head but it was one pass channel side. Page 146 of 390 24) Thiruppathi Rajan Hi I have one doubt about floating shell & heat exchanger. So internal bellow is added in between that junction so that floating head can be still call as floating head….Facebook .May 28 at 9:31pm · Like Chetan Patel This is possible .

Page 147 of 390 25) Purav Desai Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 5 at 5:09am Rohitash Singh Panwar and Amardeep Jagtap like this. Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

June 2 at 11:10pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai I think. for example.r. Other procedure for determining size and no. and the design is compromised.) apart (centerline to centerline). In a critical case. including exposure to the maximum design wind or earthquake load. However I have also seen Owner specifications which specifies allowable loads for foundation bolt with reference to each size. whichever is greater.June 3 at 8:21am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki The anchor bolts and baseplate must be designed to secure the pressure vessel under operating and test conditions. of bolt remains same as described by Rahul Valand…. 4.Facebook . the ability of the concrete to hold each anchor bolt is reduced. there is always a project specific standard available in which anchor bolt size and quantity is specified for the given diameter of vessel. Mostly it remains same for each size and when you perform the design use thsi stress as manualy entry in design software. material. If the anchor bolts are too close to each other. increase the diameter of bolt.5 m (18 in. 12. If it is not satisfying the required area then u increase the number of quantity till you reach the minimum pitch (distance required betn two bolt). For example for SA-307 use allowable tensile stress as 120 Kg/cm2 and shear stress as 80 kg/cm2. 2. In this case easiest way is just divide this load by respective bolt root area and you will get allowable stress for each size. The number of anchor bolts in a baseplate should be a multiple of four. Anchor bolts should not be placed closer than 0. 16. Static Equipment Group . A closer spacing reduces their holding strength in a concrete foundation. sometime u have to increase the skirt dia and hence make it flare (now maximum apex angle comes into picture) to accomodate more number of bolts. the question was raised because normally allowable stress is given for foundation bolt w. To use high strength bolt is also an another option…. The following general rules apply to the design of anchor bolts and selection of baseplates: 1. Then after as a next step . how to size the no and diameter of anchor bolt for vertical vessels to meet the wind and seismic loads Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 2 at 10:22pm Rahul Valand If we consider the vertical vessel/column. Page 148 of 390 26) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran If the maximum allowable load of a foundation bolt is provided. 8. As a first step u provide size and quantity as per standard.t.

000. Mwind = 4. 4.110.000 ft.5 ft. 000ft. Bolt circle diameter of 11 ft.000 x 20) BA = 1. N = 20 – As per Aramco Standards. The anchor bolt root area is used to determine the anchor bolt stress under the applied loads.Facebook .55 ft. Just check applicable standards case wise.000)/ 95)− (10.. and the bolt number and size that are required to keep the bolt stress within allowable limits.55)/(44. Taken from Aramco Standard) : Anchor Bolt Calculation Determine the number of anchor bolts needed and calculate the size of each bolt for a vertical tower. Page 149 of 390 3./ linear ft. < dabc < 11. In Step 5: Since 9.000 lb. ∴Mwind governs In Step 2: A B = π/4 x (d abc)2 A B = π/4 x (11)2 A B = 95 ft.lbs. In Step 4: T = M/AB– W/CB T = ((4.2/bolt Static Equipment Group . Solution: In Step 1: Mearthquake = 1.-lb. The area within the root of the bolt threads (the root area) is the effective area of the anchor bolts. Sample Problem (it is for only to understand basic engineering which we apply to design anchor bolts.642 in.000.55 ft. 815 lb.000 ft. Given: A vertical tower with the following parameters: Empty weight of 10.000ft. A-325 anchor bolts. No fewer than eight anchor bolts should secure a tall vessel.110. Design wind moment of 4.000 / 34.55) T = 41. In Step 6: BA = TCB / SBN BA = (41.lbs.815 x 34.000.-lb.2 In Step 3: CB = π × d abc CB = π × 11 CB = 34. Earthquake moment of 1.

Please refer Denis r.moss & E.There are also ISO bolts from which you can take root area but be specific for fine or coarse thread both have different root area. Page 150 of 390 In Step 7: Since 1. In that case it is required to provide internal bellow at floating head to tube outlet nozzle junction because in order to give one pass flow it is required to cut nozzle at floating head and corresponding in line shell head.June 5 at 5:07am · Like Mehta Mehul I think maximum allowable load for bolt is its allowable stress value in compression or tension or other other stress application.Facebook . There is a table given in each standard which shows area and tensile load for each size of bolt.May 28 at 6:24pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . Refer the attached photo which shows calculation formulae given in ASTM standards to find out root area (stress area). I have TEMA root area which is damn conservative. Corrosion allowance can also be subtracted if owner specification ask for corroded root area….June 3 at 6:07pm · Like · 1 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @ Thanks guys for such good response. And then nozzle shall be fitted.642 < 1. Could any one be having difference root areas like UNC or something else…. My question was more focused on the root are of anchor bolt to be considered.However root area can be considered from TEMA METRIC threads. diameter….744 _ Bolt size is 1-3/4 in.June 3 at 10:42pm · Like Purav Desai The root area often termed as stress area shall be considered from repsective standard like ASTM A307 or ASTM A 325/325M. Yes I agree with the above steps. Is this possible to accommodate one pass (tube side) on AES or any TEMA floating type exchanger? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 28 at 5:54pm Hemant Solanki I have seen such exchanger where type was of floating head but it was one pass channel side. But in order to do that it will not serve the purpose of expansion and contraction. So internal bellow is added in between that junction so that floating head can be still call as floating head….megassy for pressure vessel design for your requirement of wind & seismic calculation….June 5 at 10:53pm · Like 27) Thiruppathi Rajan Hi I have one doubt about floating shell & heat exchanger.U. Answer: The tower requires 20 anchor bolts of 1-3/4 in.

It is purely related to material behavior according to certain operating conditions. The term MPT is related to brittle fracture of equipment that occurs due to embrittlement (Low temperature or Temper or hydrogen) during startup/shutdown. there is possibility that ductile to brittle transition temperature has already shifted (In other words.. Reactor fabricated from the Cr-Mo & Cr-Mo-V steel can be subject to Temper Embrittlement (Reduction in Toughness) after long period of operation at higher temperature (350º~550º C). Page 151 of 390 Manoj Prasad Yes as explained by Hemant Solanki…May 28 at 6:36pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran There are a few handbooks which has an indicative sketch of such arrangement!. As stated in ASME Sec II D. for an example equipment which is designed for -46 ºC MDMT. temper embrittlement is reversible phenomena hence for new Static Equipment Group . App. There are two types arrangements one is by shell and other is by HTAS. Htas is using gland packing which more sturdy then shell's expansion bellow. The reason is during the operation due to embrittlement.May 28 at 9:31pm · Like Chetan Patel This is possible . Sb.. during the re-startup of Reactor after maintenance. However.Facebook . As. But gland packing arrangement needs precise machining…. MPT is often calculated by Equipment Manufacturer because all kinds of test on materials are carried at manufacturer shop during fabrication and they also have information from mill @ received base material. Low alloy steel equipments suffer most under this kind of fracture due to their material properties and alloying elements. For newly fabricated equipments. A. Sn. after embrittlement there is chance that the equipment can fail at -29 °C also) . extent of Temper embrittlement can be minimized by controlling alloying elements (P. Accoding to me and Krishna Desai.May 29 at 9:16am via mobile · Like 28) Deepesh Shrivastava Can anyone help me out to calculate MPT (Minimum pressurization temperature) for Equipment? Or The maximum allowable pressure for equipment at 0° C for equipments which are having MDMT -46° C?? Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 6 at 3:35pm Purav Desai Verygood Post Deepesh Shrivastava. there are chances of brittle fracture if pressure- temperature cycle is not maintained properly. You hv to take care of tube side nozzle on floating head. Mn & Si) in terms of weld metal factor X & base metal factor J.

DHT etc). many refiners use a Pressurization sequence to limit system pressure to about 25% of the maximum design Pressure for temperatures below a Minimum Pressurization Temperature (MPT) during startup and shutdown to minimize the possibility of brittle fracture. Page 152 of 390 pressure equipment usually it is avoided by carrying out heat treatment process during fabrication (ISR...2.Facebook . 4. API is developing a standard API 934F which concentrates on calculation of MPT values. Thumb rule in our company says it is 25% of the design pressure but I could not find any API/ASME reference for it…June 11 at 10:36am · Like Krishna Desai Yesterday my self and purav had the same discussion... Also. stresses are considered low enough to essentially eliminate the risk of brittle fracture in the absence ofsignificant other stresses (such as those due to weight and differential thermal expansion). Yes I know MPT calculation shall be submitted by Fabricator but being on Licensor side Client has raised a query on our drawing that During start up of the plant in winter condition (ambient -36 to -46 C) what is the Maximum pressure by which they can go until the pressure shell wall temperature goes positive OR IN OTHER WORDS Brittle fracture of material does not take place until some pressure is applied.June 11 at 11:06am · Like · 1 Deepesh Shrivastava Thanks Purab. 25% of design pressure is recommended practice and not the API/ASME code Normative requirement.3. Static Equipment Group . This is just a temporary solution and once equipment is under operation it will again tend to embrittle and hence use of MPT comes into picture to avoid possibility brittle fracture during startup/shutdown.June 11 at 10:49am via mobile · Like · 1 Purav Desai Refer API 571 cl. This is the reason.. you may refer to attachment however it is better to ask vendor to submit that. However during this time I also studied a bit about the Calculation of MPT and will post about my findings later…. For sample calculation of MPT....6 (a)…. So we want to calculate that pressure on which brittle fracture could take place at different temperature. Krishna. Even Axens is following the same….June 11 at 5:26pm · Like Hemant Solanki In Addition to what Purav and Krishna has explained: Minimum Pressurizing Temperature (MPT): It is lowest temperatures at which a pressure greater than 40% of the MAWP should be applied to the vessel. Below 40% of the maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP).June 10 at 11:07am · Like · 3 Deepesh Shrivastava Thanks Purab & KRISHNA.

Page 153 of 390 To establish a minimum design metal temperature. Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 11 at 7:08pm 3 people like this. Static Equipment Group .Facebook . 3 minutes ago · Like 29) Purav Desai Nozzle arrangement for Single Pass Floating Head Heat Exchanger. or operation. the following should be considered: -Startup temperature -Normal and abnormal operating conditions -Best available local weather data -Lowest 1-day mean temperature shown in Figure 2-2 of API 650 For vessels without a specified minimum pressurizing temperature. startup. one can be established using the following guidelines: The minimum pressurizing temperature (MPT) can be established from the following: -Knowledge of the steel types -Thickness of the vessel -Minimum temperature for hydrotest.

We had received good results in sealing and easy for maintenance…June 12 at 11:06am · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta In my previous experience.June 12 at 11:20am via mobile · Like 30) Sudhir Sharma Static Equipment Group . in Petrochemical complex.June 11 at 7:07pm · Like · 1 Deepesh Shrivastava Normally Topsoe always provides Gland & packing type arrangements in high pressure ammonia loops. Purav Desai. Indrapandian K and 2 others like this. Refer schematics of it as attached….. Surprise to hear that it is used in hazardous service like Ammonia and that too high pressure…. I have applied gland and packing type arrangement for vertical single pass floating head exchanger. gland packing is only allowed in non hazardous. low pressure service.Facebook . Purav Desai In one of the project. with Owner permission. Page 154 of 390 Hemant Solanki Bellow arrangement for 1 pass floating head arrangement Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 11 at 3:49pm Chetan H Prajapati.

So ASME has took approach of increasing allowable stress value.2 factor which ASME has allowed for combination loadings..7 is used to decrease these loads. So I think in that case it is not required to increase this allowable stress Static Equipment Group ..June 14 at 7:37am via mobile · Like Sudhir Sharma thanks all of you…June 14 at 10:31am · Like Hemant Solanki It is 1. design condition etc…June 13 at 10:06pm · Like Mitul Patel First check point have you click to use higher allowable longitudinal stress as per UG- 23(d).June 13 at 8:33pm · Like · 3 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Send more details like TL to TL.Facebook . You may get it pass if failing marginally. I have one query regarding the combined loading calculation in pvelite. I suggest again go through each and every input. Or increase allowable stress value. Then check in combined loading which case is governing.. And if combined loadings governs by compressive stress then as explained earlier either add stiffeners or increase bottom courses thickness….which says we can increase allowable compressive stress by 20%. In these codes there is already load reduction factors 0. what should i do for reducing compressive stress. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 13 at 8:24pm Hemant Solanki To increase allowable compressive stress either you need to add stiffeners to reduce unsupported length. while designing the column of Material SA240-304. Purpose is either you decrease wind or seismic loads effect with combination loadings.. fails nowhere. Page 155 of 390 Dear friends.. the vessel fails in combined loading. Otherwise increase bottom shell courses thickness. What is stress ratio?. But if you are using ASCE or IBC codes. please comment. other factor for various loadings are ok.. External stiffner are not helping in reducing compressive stress.. If combined loading governs by tensile stress then you have to increase thickness only.

1. h) The primary stress check specified in Part 4. Division 1 Pressure Vessel Section VIll. j) The fabrication tolerances specified in Part 4.Division 2 may be used to design the components for a Section VIII. each of the shell elements comprising the junction and the junctionitself shall be designed in accordance with Section VIII. i) Weld Joint details shall be in accordance with Part 4. Just check your case. c) Material impact test exemptions shall be in accordance with the rules of Section VIII.3 and 4.2.6 of Section VIII. e) The fatigue analysis screening in accordance with Part 4. Division 2 is notrequired. d) If the thickness of a shell section or formed head is determined using Section VIII. it may be used when required by UG-22 of Section VIII. Division 2with the exclusion of Category E welds. b) The weld joint efficiency shall be established in accordance with UW-11 and UW-12 of SectionVIII.Division 2 is not required. Division 2 are notpermitted. paragraph 4. paragraph 4. Division 1 pressure vessel.2 of Section VIII.4 of Section VIII. Division 2. Division 1. Division 1.provided the following conditions are met: a) The allowable design tensile stress shall be in accordance with UG-23 of Section VIII. g) The Design Loads and Load Case Combinations specified in Part 4. If ASCE or IBC is applicable then above can be used….June 14 at 10:35am · Like 31) Hemant Solanki ASME BPV Code Case 2695 Code Case 2695 Allowing Section VIll.3 of SectionVIII. the following requirements apply: 1) For design of nozzles. f) The provisions shown in Part 4 of Section VIII. Division2 be used to design the components for a Section VIII. Division 2 are not required. Division 1 shall be calculated in accordance with Section VIII. Division 2. paragraph 4. Division2.1. Division 1 pressure vessel? Reply: It is the opinion of the Committee that the design-by-rule requirements in Part 4 of Section VIII. However. paragraph 4. the required thickness used in the coincident ratiodefined in Section VIII.Division 1.1. or still if you want to use then put load reduction factor as 1 in Pvelite input. Page 156 of 390 value by 1. 2) For conical transitions.5. The provision of evaluation of vessels outside of tolerance per Static Equipment Group . Division 1. 3) For material impact test exemptions. Division 2design rules. any nozzle and its reinforcement attached to that shell section orformed head shall be designed in accordance with Section VIII.Facebook . paragraph 4. Division 2 to establish the design thickness and/orconfiguration using the design-by-analysis procedures of Part 5 of Section VIII.1.4 of Section VIII. Divisions 1 and 2 Inquiry: Under what conditions may the design-by-rule requirements in Part 4 of Section VIII. Division 2 Design Rules to Be Used for Section VIll. Division 2shall be satisfied.

During the vendor drawing review of heat exchanger. So I think usage of this code case itself will take time…. if you have…June 16 at 9:15am · Like Hemant Solanki I do not have its hard copy yet. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 11 at 9:01pm Chetan Patel likes this. l) All other requirements for construction shall comply with Section VIII. k) The vessel and vessel components designed using these rules shall be noted on the Manufacturer's Data Report. Tubesheet is the common component for shell side and tube side. However stillASME is developing this procedure to cover all possible criteria.14 of Section VIII. MAWP is calculated based on provided thickness minus corrosion allowance. Rohitash Singh Panwar and Manoj Prasad like this. Division 1. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 14 at 6:16pm via Email Rajendra Sharma. Tubesheet thickness is calculated based on the 7 conditions which are specified in UHX.Facebook . Page 157 of 390 Part 4. But it's requirements mentioned in post will give guidelines.paragraph 4. m) This Case number shall be shown on the Manufacturer's Data Report. In my case. Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Would you mind shairng the code case itself. i observe that the MAWP of the tubesheet for shell side and tube side is different. Static Equipment Group . Division 2 is not permitted. the MAWP of tubesheet for tube side is 12.June 16 at 5:52pm · Like 32) Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear friends I have one query regarding the MAWP calculation of tubesheet. My question is that the provide thickness of tubesheet is same for shell side and tube side then how the MAWP value of tubesheet varies that much ? Please share your views.16 kg/cm2 and MAWP of tubesheet for shell side is 53 kg/cm2.

As far as exchanger tubesheet is concerned.June 12 at 10:49am · Like Sainath Danda Please provide the details.In my case the MAWP of tube side is governing by tubesheet i. Check PV Elite input once. Tubesheet assembly consist of tubesheet along with tube to Static Equipment Group . Let me check…June 12 at 10:49am · Like Hemant Solanki MAWP is what corroded component thickness can bear maximum pressure in design conditions. we have seperate MAWP for both shell side and tube side chambers. Ps with Pt acting simultaneously Similar cases further with considering thermal expansion. In PV Elite MAWP values have to be entered manually…June 12 at 10:47am · Like Sainath Danda One more thing is might be due to change in temperatures on tube side and Shell sides. Page 158 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran The logic should be that the least MAWP of the respective side should be governing…June 11 at 9:10pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar My question is also the same that least MAWP should be governing…. That is not the case in tubesheet design. Ps acting only. 2. So my question is that whether it is correct that the MAWP of same tubeshhet is different for shell side and tube side….Facebook . While calculating MAWP of simple shell or head component only one formula we use.e.June 11 at 9:12pm · Like · 1 Rohitash Singh Panwar But for heat exchanger. 3. UHX case is perform for.June 11 at 9:17pm · Like Sainath Danda If the calculations were done in PV Elite. So here tubesheet going to design for differential pressure. Pt acting only. But it may not be that much different…. 1. For third case Ps and Pt both acting simultaneously.16 kg/cm2 but for shell side it is governing by nozzles flange rating (approx 30) because it shows tubesheet MAWP on shell side is 53 kg/cm2. 12.

Temperature on both shell side and tube side is same…June 12 at 4:28pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Hemant Solanki : Rightly explained but as per the calculation of compress .. it is not taking the minimum value of the mawp for both shell side and tube side.. While deciding MAWP of tubesheet with shell or channel side. it should be separate because we are dealing with combination chambers. Page 159 of 390 tubesheet joint and connecting shell/channel element. So whether that pressure applied in shell or channel side will affect calculation of MAWP. Junc) · Tube Pressure Stress · Tubesheet Extension Stress After calculating MAWP in these stress cases.June 12 at 4:34pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai I have a different opinion.. That‟s why approach is different. Then these stress cases will give higher MAWP‟s on shell side. MAWP is what that thickness can bear maximum. Minimum MAWP out of these cases is slected. · Tubesheet Bending Stress · Tubesheet Shear Stress · Tube Tensile Stress · Tube Compressive Stress · Tube-Tubesheet Joint load · Shell Stress (Axial.. Following are stress cases which decides MAWP of tubesheet as per any one (shell/channel) side. Tubesheet thickness is already selected based on worst case considerations on shell and channel side. All these factors needs to consider. As it is common element it needs to satisfy both sides individually. Obviously if there is higher pressure on shell side. And then minimum out of 2 sides should be fixed as MAWP of that tubeshet…June 12 at 2:57pm · Like · 1 Rohitash Singh Panwar Sainath : The calculation is done in compress software and it automatically calculate the MAWP. for tubesheet thickness calculation considering worst case is ok but when we talk @ MAWP..Facebook . So Tubesheet MAWP calculation on shell side will only consider shell side cases and vice versa for tubeside….June 12 at 6:55pm · Like Static Equipment Group .

June 14 at 2:38am via mobile · Like · 1 Mitul Patel I am fully agree with Mrudang Mehta. As per compress report shell side MAWP will become MAEP for tube side.. it will be subjected to different hydrotest pressure. As tubesheet is common. MAWP (which may be design pressure) of Shell Side will govern and similarly for tube side. Page 160 of 390 Mitul Patel Hemant Solanki has explained the same thing what we discuss today morning.. So it shall be minimum out of these 2. Now MAWP is used to determine the hydrotest pressure.. I will differ at conclusion part that each chamber shall be separately evaluated. for tubesheet (common element). MAWP is the Maximimum Allowable Working Pressure in Hot and Corroded Condition. Simply putting. He has explained very nicely same things what I have tried to explain in my earlier post. Guys please give your comments if you agree or disagree with my explanation…. Static Equipment Group . Consider a case where MAWP of Tubeside is lower than Shell Side. the hydrotest of Shell side cannot be carried out as higher pressure as governing case will become Tubeside MAWP. but MAWP of tubesheet cannot be a single value (as correctly shown in calculation result).June 12 at 7:03pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki As Purav has explained. It will have different MAWPs for Shellside and Tube side. Its ok that this common element will be consider for both shell and channel side separately while deciding MAWP of corresponding chamber. But Individually while deciding MAWP of tubesheet it shall be minimum of calculated for both side.Which is not influenced by adjacent pressure chamber. Because in operation . pressure will be from both side. Hydrotest pressure of Shell Side and Tube side are carried out sesperately (to check tube to tubesheet joint failure). MAWP of Shellside and Tubeside are different. So tubesheet will experience both MAWP (internal) and MAEP (external). Tubesheet is already designed for the worst of the three condition as explained by Hemant.June 13 at 9:27am · Like Mrudang Mehta Guys... Because we use this separate MAWP to test those chambers separately. MAWP is always separate for each pressure chamber. So tubesheet has only one MAWP which will that if Tubeside. we need to understand the use of MAWP to answer this query.Facebook . Tubesheet will be treated as common element. So when carrying out hydrotest of Shellside.. Now lets see what happens if the lower of the two MAWPs is taken as MAWP of Tubesheet.we can not take lower one. Please correct me if I missed something…. So for this reason.

corrected for temperature. And then checking all joints sustainability. Others can share their views on it….Facebook . Because there is no upper limit of hydrotest pressure given by UG-99. It mentions hydrotest pressure as 1. Mrudang. as you have given example. Please read clause UG 99 (b).e as it is not subject to hydrotest pressure on both sides simultaneously. Only its needed to pressurise chamber to achieve operating scenario. If your channel side MAWP is governed (as it is lower compared to shell side). Even though let your shell side is with higher operating pressure. So your statement is completely incorrect. Its only minimum hydro pressure which we calculate.June 14 at 7:32am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki In addition to what Mrudang has explained. Page 161 of 390 The same thing is done by software program which is widely acceptable in industry from years.3xMAWPxLSR. 1.e is two vertical vessels mounted in each other with common head in between. As per UG-99 (e). Name plate of HX had MAWP of SS and TS marked on it. Then you can use that hydrotest pressure on channel side as well shell side. Lastly there ha been lot of brains put in deciding that MAWP of SS and TS will be seperate and there Static Equipment Group . S&T HX tubesheet are not good rxa…June 17 at 12:14pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta example to relate this clause. Please note that MAWP is not only used for deciding Hydrotest Pressure. Best example of applicability of value UG 99. You said in above post that MAWP is not used to decide hydrotest pressure.June 14 at 10:37am · Like Mrudang Mehta Dear Hemant. I think its clear now…. And if as per this you have decided hydrotest pressure. the hydrostatic test shall subject the common elements to at least their design differential pressure. 2. 4. Tubesheet is common element between shell side and tube side but plese note that it is NOT anyway related to clause UG 99. So if differential pressure is not much then any governing MAWP (lower of any side of common elements) can also serve the purpose. 3. So for common element client will consider MAWP available on both chambers. Hydrotest of Shell side and Tubeside is never done simultaneously so that tube to tubesheet joint leakage can be detected. MAWP is a mean by which Client can get idea about whether operating pressure of equipment can be increased or not.

The test pressure should not be so large as to result in visible permanent deformation anywhere in the vessel…. This. Page 162 of 390 is no MAWP of Tubesheet and so it is not mentioned in output of standard softwares like PVelite and Compress.... Thanks for your efforts on preparing reply…. the Inspector has the right to reject the vessel.. I have only highlighted that MAWP is not only meant to calculate Hydrotest Pressure.. the code does not specify a maximum pressure to which a vessel can be hydrostatically tested. It is only minimum pressure which all joints should face during hydro test. defines the upper limit on hydrostatic test pressure. Actually there is no MAWP for Tubesheet at all. Because there is no upper limit of hydrotest pressure.June 17 at 12:19pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Dear Mrudang. Minimum we can restrict with lower MAWP out of both chambers. I know that as tubesheet is common element. To detect leak it is required to pressurise one chamber at a time. As per which ASME has not specified any upper limit for hydrotest pressure.MAWP of Tubsheet is not lower of SS and TS MAWP. 2. Otherwise we cannot detect leaks. If the vessel experiences visible permanent deformation as a result of the pressure test.Facebook . MAWP is also a mean (in addition to UG-99-b) which gives idea to client that in future we can increase operating pressure of said vessel upto what extent. If client specifies than we can take effect of UG-99(e ) for deciding minimum hydro test pressure based on differential pressure. in effect. Conclusion as per my understanding . It‟s obvious that we will carry out hydrotest of separate chamber.. Tubesheet is designed for worst condition ( if agreed by client it may be designed for differential pressure)….can u explane…June 17 at 6:15pm · Like Hemant Solanki Dear Mr..June 17 at 5:47pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari How can you say there is no upper limit of hydrotest.. Than same shall be done prior consultation with inspector. Please note that UG-99(b)(34) also uses design pressure to calculate hydro test pressure. 4. I have only mentioned that lower MAWP from both chamber can still serve the purpose of deciding hydrotest pressure of both chambers... 1. Tiwari.June 17 at 6:23pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Refer UG-99. This is also true for vertical vessel with common head. If we wants to increase hydro test pressure.

June 17 at 6:24pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari we can use design pressure as mawp if mawp is not given or by choice if client having no objection…June 17 at 6:25pm · Like Hemant Solanki Yes..thanks…June 17 at 6:34pm · Like 33) Purav Desai I am raising this query on behalf of my friend.i know the mawp is least of all calculated pressure for all parts of a vessel taking no effect of static head. For Shell and Tube Heat Exchangers.Facebook . But as there is genuine reason while designing with MAWP. So in future client cannot increase operating pressure of that vessel.June 17 at 6:31pm · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari Limit term u can only use when something having both upper and lower. who should decide type of tube to tubesheet joint (Static Engineer or Process Engineer or 50:50)? There may be different working style for different company but who should own this responsbility? I invite members to share their opinions and debate this post with proper technical basis. Ownership to static engineer…. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 27 at 3:10pm Chetan Patel Joint decision... Then yes we can restrict it to design pressure.May 27 at 3:12pm · Like Static Equipment Group .May 27 at 3:11pm via mobile · Like · 1 Senthil Anbazhagan The total numbers of tubes and tube types shall be decided by process engineer as they are only owing HTRI…... Page 163 of 390 Suraj Kr Tiwari We do seperate hydrotest for shell and tube part so simply we use mawp of shell to calculate shell hydrotest pressure and vice versa... In other words we are stating that this vessel cannot be used above its design pressure which is now its MAWP.. I appreciate ur replies always..any ways. And same should be conveyed to client….

service etc.May 27 at 4:11pm via mobile · Like Shreyas Sutar Of cource static engineer…May 27 at 4:27pm · Like Static Equipment Group . process is consulted but onus of decision and responsibility lies onStatic Equipment Engineer…. of tubes and tube type is always decided by process..May 27 at 3:17pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Senthil Anbazhagan.May 27 at 3:21pm via mobile · Like Krishna Desai Purav I am waiting for your answer….May 27 at 3:18pm · Like · 1 Krishna Desai As far as I know.May 27 at 3:33pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta Selection of Tube to tubesheet joint is sole responsibility of Static Equipment Engineer.May 27 at 3:16pm · Like Purav Desai Process Team can give information in the form of intermixing of shell side and tube side fluid is allowed or not.May 27 at 3:14pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan Static equipment engineer scope is only to do mechanical design not process design…. based on experience process and mechanical both can jointly decide…. However. Senthil Anbazhagan. 1 UW-20 or App. total no. selection of tube to tubesheet joint type is not a process design…. But final tube to tubesheet joint type as per ASME Sec. So in case of doubt regarding category if service. but process will not be able to guide. Please relook it once again…. if it is not specified. But The query here is for Type of Tube to Tubesheet Joint. static equipment engineer is totally responsible. lethal service and any other critical service at last they can say expanded or welded. A shall be selected & Owned by Static Enginner…. VIII Div.Facebook . if conditions specified in mechanical specification. Taking input from process is ok. pressure.. Also the TUbe to tubesheet joint is many times specified in Mechanical design specification for HX which will be depending on temperature. Page 164 of 390 Purav Desai Members please select your opinion above.May 27 at 3:24pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Agreed Krishna Desai….

Page 165 of 390

Arpita Shah 50:50…May 27 at 5:11pm via mobile · Like

Suraj Kr Tiwari It is related to mechanical strength against stressess devloped by pressure and tem.
So mechanical guys are responsible , requirement of flexible joints are the outcomes of such selections
in some cases. CA and material are inputs from process which also play vital role in such
selections…..May 27 at 5:13pm via mobile · Like

Sainath Danda It will be based on the information given by Process Engineer and will be decided by
Static engineer. I can say 50:50…May 27 at 5:32pm · Like

Mrudang Mehta Guys..I would like to debate the idea of those who consider 50:50 between Static
and Process. I fully agree that process input is an inevitable part of the decision making, but Purav's
question it is regarding the responsibility .. And my view the responsibly is only of Mechanical
Engineer…..May 27 at 5:43pm via mobile · Like

Purav Desai I am also of the opinion that Responsibility (Ownership) of selection of tube to tubesheet
joint lies with Mechanical (Static) Engineer Only. Also, I think I mistyped the third option. Instead of
50:50 it should be 10:90 (Process:Static)….May 27 at 5:47pm · Like · 2

Ramdas Kadam It's Mechanical engineer responsibility.If we need any help from process Engineer we
can ask them @ service or intermixing of fluid can be a problem etc. So finally we can say 10% Process
and 90% Mechanical Static….May 27 at 11:08pm · Like

Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Purav: The input of criticality of the stream leak and properties of the
stream should come from Process. Hence my view 50:50…May 28 at 6:04am · Like

Gurneet Singh Thakar In an interview with reliance core team, who does the auditing work for
Jamnagar J3 expansion, same question was ask to me, how to choose the type of joint for tube to
tubesheet joint. I told them this is based on many factor like type of fluid or what mahadevan said "
criticality of stream leak". And also said that it is always specified in process datasheet and we follow
that. Which was the usual case with me. There reply was process guys have absolutely no idea about
tube to tubesheet joint. Its static dept who have to decide. Though they didn't said when to use seal

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weld or strength weld or with any expansion but gave a example. Suppose your tube are titanium and
tubesheet is carbon steel, carbon steel cannot be welded with titanium. Thus we can only provide tube
to tubesheet expanded joint. Which process cannot decide!.....May 29 at 11:41pm · Like · 1

Mrudang Mehta Mr. Gurneet- fantastic post, I too believe that RESPONSIBITY lies on Static Eq Engg
only (may be based in input from Process Datasheets). The expert opinion of that of Mr Mahadevan
help to give clarity. Thanks for the post….May 30 at 4:54am via mobile · Like

Purav Desai Appriciate participation from Members and specially new members. I am quite sure that
after above opinions and discussion, my friend and members of this group can handle this topic in
more efficient way than before. Hope to get such participation in future posts also. Thank you….May 30
at 7:40am · Like

Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Gurneet & Mrudang thanks for the acknowledgment
Mahadevan,V
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone…May 30 at 7:45am · Like

Hemant Solanki Below are some of practices followed by BP Refinery for tube to tubesheet joint
selection. If you see it is service conditions decide it in most cases. So it is better that process
department should inform us. Otherwise static should decide and again get confirmation from Process

REQUIREMENTS FOR TUBE–TO–TUBESHEET JOINTS SERVICE/DESIGN(1) -TUBE–TO–TUBESHEET
JOINT DESCRIPTION(2)

Hydrogen Service, Hydrogen Rich Service, or HF acid service -Seal welded

Services where stream mixing cannot be tolerated as specified by the Owner‟s Engineer -Seal welded

Tube outside diameter of 2 inches -Strength welded

Dissimilar materials (ferritic, austenitic, nickel–based(3)) for tube and tubesheet -Seal welded

Clad or overlayed tubesheet(3) -Seal welded

Flexible tubesheet design -Strength welded

Shell side or tube side design pressure 1000 psig or greater -Strength welded

All other services and designs -(*) Grooved and rolled, unless otherwise specified by the Owner‟s

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Engineer(4)

Steam Reboilers in 600 psi service and above -Strength welded

(1) If conflicts arise between different service or design requirements, the more stringent requirements
shall apply.

(2) Grooving and rolling requirements shall be in accordance with Sections 5.0 and 6.0, respectively.

(3) (*) Titanium and Copper–based alloys such as admiralty brass are not seal welded, unless specified
by the Owner‟s Engineer.

(4) (*) When approved by the Owner‟s Engineer, the Manufacturer may utilize an alternate tube–to–
tubesheet joint to increase the maximum allowable axial load as calculated in the Non-mandatory
Appendix A, Section VIII, Division I of the ASME code…..May 30 at 3:38pm via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki My opinion is process should specify. And if any constraint is there as gurneet has
mentioned for titanium then static should ask for alternate.
It should be 50:50…..May 30 at 3:41pm via mobile · Like · 2

Hemant Solanki Dear All,
Its question of responsibility.
So I would say. As one of part of Project. We should mutually agree with Process while arriving of any
decision about the joint.
At the end of the day our goal should be to give correct information to exchanger vendor. How we go
for it. will not matter much….June 15 at 8:20pm · Like · 1

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34)

Purav Desai
Many of you might be aware however I felt it worth sharing. The new feature in PVELite
2013 @ Miscellaneous Weight Inputs for Individual component. This will be very useful for
heavy wall reactors and heavy weight pressure vessels/heat exchangers as well as
columns.

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Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 18 at 1:41pm
Ruby Sahu, Manoj Prasad, Mukesh K Prajapati and 6 others like this.

Vishal Sachaniya This Feature already available in PVELite 2012 Miscellaneous Weight Inputs for
Individual component…June 18 at 2:03pm · Like

Purav Desai I think its introduced in 2012 version via internediate patch. Original 2012 version
doesnot include it….June 18 at 2:05pm via mobile · Like

35)

Hemant Solanki
IBR-2012 Edition : Figure 23D - Mistake in printing

Hello All,
This Figure 23D is used to find out factor K. which going to use in finding head thickness
as per regulation 278.
Now this Figure contains d/Sqrt(D1) charts. In IBR there is no such term as D1 defined.
After common judgement we found that as this is Square root sign. Under this square root
term shall have unit in square mm. so that output will be in mm. and then we can get unit
less term.

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And also regulation 277 (b) is applicable. Which specifies to use d/Sqrt(D*T) factor to find
out factor K.
So in regulation 278. We should read 277-(b) instead of 277-(a).
Take note of the same. And in Figure 23D read term as d/Sqrt(D*T)
For definition of above terms refer Regulation 277 and 278 of IBR.
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 19 at 4:08pm via Email

35)

Hemant Solanki uploaded a file.
Appendix-2-Revised definition of 'go' in 2011a edition of ASME-Sec VIII-Div.1

As per 2011a Edition of ASME Section-VIII-Div.1.
Definition of 'go' is revised as,

go = the smaller of tn (nominal thickness of shell or nozzle wall to which flange is
attached) or the thickness of the hub at the small end.

Which was only the hub thickness at the small end till 2010 edition of code.

The thickness of the hub at the small end : as per Appendix 2- Clause 2-1(a), it is
mentioned that "The hub thickness of weld neck flanges designed to this Appendix shall
also comply with the minimum thickness requirements in Subsection A of this Division."
So Pvelite approach of calculating 'go' thickness as per UG-27 is correct.

It means that ASME has limited 'go' value to minimum connecting shell thickness. not less
than that.

While performing flange analysis as per Appendix-2, Pvelite calculates 'go' value with UG-
27 formula. And takes Flange forging allowable stress as 'S' in that formula. So 'go'
calculated will be higher than connecting shell thickness.
Now in order to satisfy 2011a definition of go if we put go equals to connecting shell
thickness then it will show error in report mentioning calculated 'go' is higher than
provided 'go'.

Lesser 'go' will increase flange thickness and overall dimensions of flange.. So it is
preferable to keep 'go' same as connecting shell thickness. in other words if we follow 'go'
definition as per 2011a, it will give conservative design.

We propose following solution for this in order to satisfy new definition of 2011a:
while calculating 'go' as per UG-27, take 'S' value of connecting shell material (means
higher allowable stress of forging). So calculated 'go' will be less. due to higher allowable
stress. and report will not show any error. fulfilling requirement specified in definition for
'go'.

There can be argument that flange shall be design with low allowable stress.. but this is

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true at flange to gasket joint. it is merely not required to follow it for 'go' calculation. as
'go' will be considered as integral part of connecting shell. so we can take higher allowable
stress while calculating required 'go'.

For 'go' calculation suggested to use higher allowable stress of flange forging (Out of
listing 1 and 2). For other flange stresses it is required to take lower allowable stress of
flange forging (Out of listing 1 and 2).

Note that this calculation of 'go' will mainly affect flange design in case flange and
connecting shell is made up of stainless steel materials. For CS it will not affect much.

Above query is raised to Integraph. And Integraph has accepted to implement it in next
revision of Pvelite.
Rajendra Sharma, Unnikrishna Menon and Mrudang Mehta like this.

Mrudang Mehta

Hi Hemant,

Excellent post. Small clarification, current PVelite or compress doesnot have facility to enter different S
values for go calculation and flange thickness calculation so your proposed solution can be used only if
the software are updated to let us enter two different values.. Is my understanding correct?...June 20
at 2:45pm via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki Yes.
Actually if we try to choose higher stress forging to only sake of „go‟ calculation. Then it will be not
correct. As other flange stresses shall be checked with lower allowable stress of forging.
My suggestion is. Select with low allowable stress forging. Let Pvelite calculate „go‟ with it. And just
ignore that error which indicates required „go‟ is higher than provided.
Let‟s hope Pvelite come up with some change in program.

My doubt is different.
We have to calculate „go‟ as per UG-27. As far as design is concerned if we have to use low stress
values of forging. Than we should maintain „go‟ calculated. Because if „go‟ will be less than it can
transfer moments to gasketed joint. And which in turn also results into leakage.
So my view is we should finalise flange dimension with lesser „go‟ out of calculated and shell thickness
tn. But still we should maintain calculated „go‟ which can be more than connecting shell thickness „tn‟.
Please discuss your views on it….June 20 at 3:00pm · Like · 1

Mrudang Mehta I am not sure software makers will give an option to enter different allowable stress
values as code doesnot mention it.

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.... for a same pressure part taking diff.but in general practise I have seen go always = shell thk.. your post is for standard flange or non also.Facebook .. But if the software report is showing error (and not warning) will it be allowed by client to consider the same ?. Page 172 of 390 Considering your question.my understanding is that keeping go lower (based on higher stress values) should not cause any leakage problem because this has been used since years in the industry . if thk of the part where small hub is attached equal to go then .June 20 at 3:29pm via mobile · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari For non standard flange we choose go equal to shell thk.. s will come from shell or hub part... ..June 20 at 7:39pm · Edited · Like Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 20 at 2:13pm 36) Hemant Solanki Wm2 and Wm1 Formula Difference Static Equipment Group .I think larger value will be taken as per your post. s value for design of different parameter of concern part looks awkward in my view…...

UG-27 and UW-l3. using the maximum allowable stress for the hub material. So the multiplication factor mp is just the residual stress on gasket so that the gasket will not blow off during operating condition. Which approx. Appendix 2. Shall the thickness requirements of UG-27. Static Equipment Group . Hence y can be replaced by 2 x m x P. 2003 File: BC03-1347 Question: Is it required by Section VIII. Viral Patel and 2 others like this. So to induce yield stress in gasket typically twice the internal design pressure is required. UW-13. Rohitash Singh Panwar M factor is nothing but ratio of residual stress on gasket to the internal pressure. So i cant understand the relation of mp with gaskets width which is taken as 2b for wm1 and b for wm2…. Whereas y is yield stress of gasket material. that‟s why this confusion is there. be satisfied at all points along the hub? Reply: Yes Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 21 at 6:24pm via Email Mihir Jha. 2-1(b) Date Issued: October 14. Division 1 (2004 Edition). Note that area in both load is Pi times „bG‟ only. Division 1 that the hub thickness of an integral welding neck flange shall satisfy the minimum thickness requirements of UG-27? Reply: Yes..3. Mrudang Mehta. Division 1 (2001 Edition. Also note that Y and m terms have relationship.Facebook . y = 180(2m-1)^2 as per Taylor and Forger Method That's why this difference is there…June 20 at 4:50pm · Like 37) Hemant Solanki Some interpretation from ASME about hub thickness calculation Interpretation: VIII-1-04-08 Subject: Section VIII. Interpretation: VIII-l-04-76 Subject: Section VIII.3 Date Issued: August 17. 2005 File: BC05-565 Question: A heat exchanger is manufactured with a forged tubesheet with a hub that is butt welded to the shell as shown in Fig. Page 173 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 20 at 11:32am Rohitash Singh Panwar likes this. Yes. Gasket factor m is the ratio of stress induced in gasket when the vessel is under pressure to internal pressure P.. 2002 Addenda).June 20 at 4:07pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki You are relating factor 2 with b.

June 23 at 11:19am via mobile · Like Senthil Anbazhagan What are the diameters of girth flange and bolt hole? And how many number of holes you have chosen?.June 23 at 3:06pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Thanks for the responses. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 23 at 11:08am Hemant Solanki Yes...June 23 at 11:39pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group .June 23 at 8:17pm · Like · 1 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Thanks guys for quick response!.. Manually you can take care of it.June 23 at 1:21pm via mobile · Like Wang Shun Manually check available/required bolt area in output report. you will find... I do not remember any option in Pvelite is available for this…. I think manual method is the only…June 23 at 5:02pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan Options are available in PVELite also…June 23 at 5:04pm · Like Datta Savant In PVElite Flange Design output.... Page 174 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran One of my client spec says 30% additional bolt area for shell and tube girth flange design.Facebook . Minimum Reqiured Bolt area and Avaliable area..June 23 at 12:00pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Check the difference between provided and available bolt area in flame calculation output….. Or is the manual method / excel only the way out......... How do you check that in PV Elite. actually I do not want to increase the bolt area physically but only check that 30% excess area is available..You can check from it.June 23 at 11:18am · Like Jayesh Rathod calculate Aprovided/Arequired manually from Pvelite output...

plz check…June 24 at 6:35pm via mobile · Like 39) Hemant Solanki Flange in Pvelite. Static Equipment Group . so it request you to provide. Anybudy having Vapor belt calculations for heat heat exchanger.1. Hemant Solanki It shall be as per Appedix-9 (Jacket calculation) of ASME Section VIII-Div.Using higher allowable stress for small end hub calculation Just check mark this box in Pvelite if we want to use higher allowable stress effect while 'g0' calculation. Just ensure to check UHX-4(d) requirement added in 2011a edition of code…June 24 at 4:25pm · Like Veera Mani In pv elite jacket vessel provision is there ..Facebook . Page 175 of 390 38) Prafful Chaudhary Dear friends. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 24 at 4:15pm via mobile Viral Patel likes this.

Mihir Jha and 2 others like this. This is applicable for SS forging and SS shell cases. Disagree Mr. Page 176 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 25 at 10:47am Purav Desai.Facebook . Senthil Anbazhagan How allowable stress differ for same materials.If hub and shell materials are same than the allowable stresses are also same.Hemant…. This post is to highlight only to take care „g0‟ calculation. Where forging Static Equipment Group .June 25 at 5:04pm · Like Hemant Solanki This is in continuation to what we discussed in last week regarding „g0‟ calculation as per UG-27. If we want to use higher allowable stress of forging to calculate „g0‟ even though keeping low allowable stresses applicable for other stresses in flange design.We can't set higher allowable stress for picking this option in PVElite. This option will help.

. is it required to have a ASME "U" STAMP for the nameplate?. if specified.013 bar (above atmospheric pressure) so yes you can design it as per Section VIII-Div.1 as fabrication code. hydrostatic testing and code stamping…. we had designed the column in Pvelite software and the required thickness of skirt in local bending was coming to be 22 mm. By the way as you mentioned it is stack.June 26 at 4:48pm · Edited · Like 40) Rohitash Singh Panwar This is in reference with skirt required thickness for local bending in Compress and Pvelite software. Moss Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Both the software are performing the calculation as per Equation 10.June 25 at 5:11pm · Like · 1 Edgrdm Dguzmn Help Please . However as per vendor calculation submitted which were in Compress software . So check whether ASME STS-1 is specified by client or not. Flare stacks are generally operated at near- atmospheric pressure and are not specifically designed as pressure equipment.1. Even if you treat operating pressure for criteria still you can use Section VIII-Div. the stack portion containing the knockout drum or liquid seal may be designed as a pressure vessel including. I have not mentioned that allowable stress will differ for same material. Regarding the Dispertion Stack . Page 177 of 390 with higher allowable stress will have same allowable stresses of that of SS plates. In some cases.the skirt thickness in local bending is coming only 16 mm with all other input parameters are same in both software. or both. design pressure of 3.1 considering it as pressure vessel. In one of our ongoing project.59 of Deniss R.5 bar . Is this a Pressure Vessels Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 26 at 1:48pm Hemant Solanki As Design pressure is above 1. This code is for steel stacks issued by ASME…. the bottom portion of the stack incorporates a knockout drum or liquid seal.June 26 at 4:39pm · Like Edgrdm Dguzmn Regarding the Rubbing plate for Dispersion Stack. When specified in the data sheets. operating pressure ATM.. ASME STS-1 2010 Edition & ASME Section VIII Div. Exceptions to this include conditions when the flare burner creates a backpressure in the flare riser that causes the pressure design code to become applicable.June 26 at 2:00pm · Like · 2 Edgrdm Dguzmn Thank a lot it is Asme STS-1 specified thank you so much…June 26 at 2:46pm · Like Purav Desai Also see below extract of API537.

It is same as Design Pressure and MAWP concept. Where „a‟ is bolt location from skirt outer surface and „h‟ is height of base block.. „P‟ mentioned as maximum anchor bolt force. So as per me Pvelite approach is Correct. That can be a reason for increased thickness from PV Elite report….Facebook . in future if loadings on vessel gets increased then skirt thickness calculated with 1st approach will not sustain further.June 16 at 9:18am · Like Hemant Solanki Question itself is upon design method of Brownell and Young. And anyhow it is conservative also. You should ask your vendor to follow what Pvelite calculates…June 14 at 12:20pm · Like · 1 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I agree with Manoo.76 x (Pxa/mxhxFallow)^2/3 x r^2/3. then as per that method Pvelite or Compress needs to calculate local skirt thickness due bolt reaction force. Page 178 of 390 then Why there is difference of thickness in both software. If we choose B&Y option... Now here “induced stress in bolt due to loadings x available area per bolt” will definitely not give maximum anchor bolt force which skirt going to face. But as you mentioned in case we use Compress.as this skirt thickness is already checked for full utilization of anchor bolt allowable stress.59 of Deniss R Moss Skirt thickness in local bending = 1. Then we need to take care to check for full utilization of anchor bolt allowable stress. the portion attached to anchor chair).e.2nd Approach. But skirt thickness with 2nd approach will sustain. Manoo Friendz please check the design method in pvelite software if it is in analyze method thickness will be more try to change this…June 10 at 4:35pm · Like Hemant Solanki In Moss.. However “maximum allowable stress of bolt x available area per bolt” will definitely give maximum anchor bolt force which skirt going to face.1st Approach.See More Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 9 at 10:33pm Rajendra Sharma and 2 others like this. If it is analyze then PV Elite calculates with Borwnell and Young method where the reaction force is transferred to the bottom portion of skirt (i. Its approaches as I discussed earlier…June 16 at 12:16pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Which software calculation is correct Pvelite or Compress ? As per equation 10. number of equally spaced loads of magnitude “P * a / h “ is considered.

5 shows only a spiral wound with outer ring can be used. maximum allowable bolt stress in calculating skirt thickness where else compress takes only maximum induces stress of different condition.. Hope this helps…. TEMA is only a RECOMMENDED PRACTICE and not a Design Code like ASME….June 26 at 8:29am · Like Harry Chacko Thanks. Stresses must be checked for equipments with heavy shell/head thicknesses and thin skirts. one use brownell and young where as other use Javed and Farr. In this case outer ring is required to make it confined joint. Also i can see that as u want to use std..e. Only care must be taken to use proper m and y values if it is a design flange. Page 179 of 390 Anish Dani There is another criteria to check the Skirt and Base Plate thickness based on the lifting of equipment. Use of spiders can help in certain cases.June 26 at 8:33am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Why owner will question? One of the purpose of outerring in gasket is for the proper alignment of gasket on flange. But what proof we can produce if client questions that ?. outer ring is required. Flange as girth flange. SPWD gaskets are cheap and can suit the narmal Static Equipment Group . Both methods are same only the reference of book is different. providing outer ring is an option.June 26 at 12:25pm via mobile · Edited · Like Mrudang Mehta Girth flange gasket shall be confined type as type.Facebook . You might require to increase the skirt thickness (if the skirt is too tall. We had checked this for Ammonia/Urea reactors based on Kellogg's comments and we had to increase the base plate thickness in couple of equipments. Hence if u chose to provide. Where there is no such facing... if kammprofile is used as girth flange gasket... it is benificial.. the gasket shall have a outer ring. This is applicable only for high wall thickness equipments…June 26 at 9:40am · Like Susan Shrestha i have also notice the same . Normal heat exhanger girth flanges have male and female faces which will protect gasket from bursting out. PVElite is taking conservative method i. the thickness can be increased only around anchor chair area where the tailing lug is attached... so based on this justification. RCB 6. But my doubt is why do you want to provide a kammprofile gasket which is expensive. Does it also allow kammprofile with outer ring? Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 26 at 7:20am via mobile Anish Dani Can use.. so if girth flange is normal type and not male-female faces.June 26 at 10:20pm via mobile · Like 41) Harry Chacko Can we use a kammprofile gasket with outer ring for a HX with standard ASME flanges as girth flanges? In TEMA fig.

June 26 at 7:39pm · Like Harry Chacko Client requested for Kammprofile gaskets. ASME STS-1 & ASME SEC. Thats why this questions came up. so you want to go for kammprofile.. Also discuss with your project client..?.VIII DIV...Facebook . if client has asked for kammprofile gasket than you should go for male- female girth flange to meet the confined gasket requirement.5 Bar. no hydrotest and no U-stamp…June 27 at 12:27pm · Like 43) Static Equipment Group .will do the same.. Hemant Solanki Earlier also U Stamping application is discussed in this forum. You can check that. Thank you…. Page 180 of 390 flanges. But we have the choice of selecting the flange type.June 27 at 8:48am via mobile · Like 42) Edgrdm Dguzmn Please help .1 IS A PRESSURE VESSEL . Thanks Purav Desai Mrudang Mehta…June 27 at 8:15am · Like Mrudang Mehta In that case.. This will be beneficial considering your HX size is not std pipe size so any ways the girth flange will be non standard…June 27 at 8:39am via mobile · Like Harry Chacko Yea.. Dispersion Stack Design pressure 3.June 27 at 10:52am · Like Kumar Kashyap I am currently handling the stack with same requirement…June 27 at 12:26pm · Like Kumar Kashyap the stack is already delivered. is it required or not to have a ASME "U" Stamp on the Nameplate? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 27 at 9:15am Tanvir Alam likes this. Whether they want assurance for quality of equipment which in turn results into increase in equipment cost…. Is it that SPWD flange width requirement is higher.

Page 181 of 390 Kewal Kareliya y for only SS have two allowance stress value. The higher stresses do not exceed 90% of the yield strength.Facebook .. The reason for this is their relatively low yield strength. for rotating equipments get advice from vendors….June 25 at 10:38pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Pv elite I guess does not do section. How is the lower stress values determined?. The higher allowable stress values were determined at temperatures where the usage would be restricted by the short-time tensile properties.June 26 at 11:19pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Agreed that is why flanges are to be designed for lower allowable stress. At these stresses.June 25 at 10:35pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan U can also use compress for static equipments.June 25 at 10:33pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan For static equipments use pvelite.? also y two stress value are there for SS Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 26 at 11:12pm via mobile Rahul Valand Two sets of allowable stress is given for austenitic stainless steel and some non ferrous alloy.. small amounts of plastic deformation can be expected….. Senthil Anbazhagan Excel sheet calculations are not acceptable by third party inspectors.. better use softwares….. Or is it excel sheets Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 25 at 10:30pm Tanvir Alam likes this.June 28 at 2:27am · Like 44) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran What is the best software to compute equipment designed for ASME Section I.June 25 at 10:50pm · Like Static Equipment Group .

June 27 at 9:26pm · Like Hemant Solanki PV Elite performs calculations in accordance with ASME Section VIII Divisions 1 & 2. Which in Section VIII-1 comes under UG. However in refining industry there are a few application where section 1 is being specified. PD 5500 and EN 13445..June 28 at 2:25am · Like Patel Sudhir As per my knowledge there is no commercial software available for Section-1 design. In section one general requirement of design comes under PG. L&T HED. I also have a knowledge that most power boiler manufacturing companies like thermax. Pvelite is not including design as per this code.Hemant…. Section I is power boiler and hence most commercial software does not include.Facebook . Do not know about Compress…June 27 at 8:46pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan Wrong Information Mr. please mention code names fully as I thought you mentioned Pvelite doesn't have the option of ASME Section VIII div-1…. However the question still remains unresolved is there any commercial validated software which is available for Section I…. Rules from API579 (Fitness for Service) are also included for evaluating the current state and remaining life of existing vessels….June 29 at 10:57am · Like Purav Desai Yep. But never heard abt commercial software for section 1 design….June 27 at 9:49pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki ASME Section-1 is for power boiler. And if I m not wrong here discussion is going on for power boiler calculation as per Section-1. Don't know about compress….June 29 at 11:09am via mobile · Like 45) Mitul Patel Static Equipment Group . Like wise all sections are different. I have also heard of a few manufacturers using excel spread sheet and even if S stamping is specified they get the excel sheet design appraised by the AI.June 27 at 9:54pm via mobile · Edited · Like · 1 Senthil Anbazhagan Agreed Mr. we did one of the steam drum with excel sheet and it was accepted by both AI and client….Hemant.June 27 at 10:06pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Sorry for pitching in late.. they use excel spread sheets or sometimes inhouse developed computer program. Page 182 of 390 Hemant Solanki Pvelite do not have Section I code design. If i remember correctly. Again check.

M. D. Buchheim. So if client specifically asks then we should go for it…a few seconds ago · Like 46) Hemant Solanki WRC Bulletin 537 : Precision Equations and Enhanced Diagrams For Local Stresses In Spherical and Cylindrical Shells Due To External Loadings For Implementation of WRC Bulletin 107 PRECISION EQUATIONS AND ENHANCED DIAGRAMS FOR LOCAL STRESSES IN SPHERICAL AND CYLINDRICAL SHELLS DUE TO EXTERNAL LOADINGS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF WRC BULLETIN 107 D. where this preload percentage it multiplies while calculating compressive stress on concrete. Initially we do not know how much preload will get applied on anchor bolts at site. Osage. Samodell WRC Bulletin 537 Static Equipment Group . M. It is like prestressing calculation we perform for flange bolts now a days. Page 183 of 390 What is initial bolt preload in design of anchor bolts used for tall columns? Compress have input for this. A. But yes Pvelite is having this input in anchor chair input. A.What methodology compress uses & what effect it makes on base ring design? What additional activities are done in foundation for such initial bolt preload? Please share your views. Straub. T. If we put 100% as bolt preload than induced compressive stress on concrete will get increased. N. D. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 2 at 8:02pm via mobile Tejas Shah likes this. E. E. Amos. Chiasson. In simplified analysis Pvelite is using jawad and farr method. Tejas Shah I am also searching for it as it affect the base plate and compression plate thickness…July 2 at 8:26pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Do not know about Compress.Facebook .

It has been meticulously checked. 0. However you can choose Section VIII-Div.As per client statement. standards and specifications that require use of WRC 107 should amend those documents to reflect the fact that WRC 537 is equivalent WRC 107 and provides the same acceptable basis for design.1 as fabrication code. WRC will no longer deliver WRC 107 when requested for purchase.flat bottom and top bolted cover) as per sec Viii div 1using pv elite software.1.client requirement :Design pressure ATM+full of water+1psi g/-50mm wc to bo condidered. Those responsible for codes.Facebook .kindly advise how to arrive the final design pressure for both internal and external based on the above detsils. Just check with client whether any other API standard or procedure is required to follow or not. The original analytical and experimental work of WRC's Pressure Vessel Research Council delivered has become the an essential tool for pressure vessel design for 45 years and in its present form for over 30 years.no idea about tank. In your case as mentioned internal pressure will be 1 Psi g + pressure due to water head. 47) Veera Mani I need one clarification for designing tank(vertical . So this is not in scope of Section VIII – Div.kindly advise as per ASME how much is minimum pressure is consider .frankly speaking am looking only for heat exchanger. Internal design pressure is 1 Psig + pressure due to full water column at atmospheric temperature External design pressure is -50 mm WC ( Approx.1. It is not an update or a revision of 107.if any clause is recommended for minimum pressure. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 4 at 3:51pm via mobile Hemant Solanki As far as ASME scope is concerned. WRC 537 provides exactly the same content in a more useful and clear format. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 1 at 3:41pm via Email Mihir Jha and Mehta Mehul like this. As it is below 15 Psi g. The objective was to eliminate potential errors in implementation. facilitate proper interpolation and extrapolation and permit efficient computation with modern computers. In response to numerous requests over the years for the precise equations depicted in the figures in the 1979 version of WRC 107. WRC 537 has been prepared. Page 184 of 390 Precision Equations and Enhanced Diagrams For Local Stresses In Spherical and Cylindrical Shells Due To External Loadings For Implementation of WRC Bulletin 107 Bulletin 537 is intended to facilitate implementation of the widely required and used relations found in the March 1979 Revision of WRC 107 for local stresses in spherical and cylindrical shells due to external loadings.07 PSI g) at Atmospheric Temperature…July 4 at 4:09pm · Like Static Equipment Group . It is the 2010 printing of WRC 107. Pressure shall be above 15 Psig.this tank is used for storage psurpose only. And thickness can be designed as per Section VIII-Div.

June 28 at 2:35am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran That is not the criteria. Relief is normally initiated at design pressure…July 1 at 10:51am · Edited · Like · 3 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I have heard a similar response given by Krishna from a person who has very good working knowledge in process design!.0 barg also can be considered for pressure vessel with relief valve discharging to atmosphere.t know the reason for this . U-1 (h) (1) states pressure conditions below which vessel shall not be in Section VIII Div.Facebook .. Page 185 of 390 Veera Mani thanks for yr reply.. Lets take a tall column even with 3. Some time .req to withstand vacuum ( either expected or unexpected ).kindly advise…July 4 at 6:43pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki It Is same which I have mentioned. 3.July 2 at 11:09pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Correct me if i am wrong….July 5 at 2:03pm · Like 48) Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Why does most of the licensor's and clients specify minimum design pressure as 3. especialy when fitted with relief valve relieving to the flare syatem. The minimum design pressure of 2.July 1 at 5:18am · Like · 1 Krishna Desai It is completely related with Flare system design. Subramanian Siva Sankara Narayanan I think. Lower design pressure may result in larger flare system to meet acceptable/minimum backpressure. Any technical reason? Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 28 at 2:30am Purav Desai likes this. it is something else. We will see " Absolute vacuum to 3 bar and I don. And that limit is 15 Psig as mentioned….we referd U1 h (1)& (2) in sec viii state that vessel should not exceed ing15psi ..5 Kg/cm2 pressure there is a requirement of vacuum stiffener!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. this is min . Pressure vessel should not have design pressure less than 3.5 barg. now thsi numnber is arbitrarily picked up for the pumps or compressors or blowers for their minimum discharge pressure..June 30 at 10:39pm · Like Purav Desai I think it has something related to pressure generation equipments on the upstream.1 scope.5 kg/cm2.5 Kg/cm2 (g) corresponds to ~50 psi (g).This could be one of the reason.

Why basering thickness calculated by Option 2 is less than compare to option 1. Mitul Patel from L&T-Chiyoda for above explanation….. then the neutral axis of the combined bolt/concrete cross section will be shifted in the direction of the concrete.? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 3 at 10:26am Hemant Solanki PV Elite has 2 different design methods for computing the required thickness of Basering supports.? What are these two different methods. Mitul Patel I think we can take advantage of this Table when wish so. Otherwise for the traditional basering on concrete use either method..Facebook . Page 186 of 390 Hemant Nikam It may be related to steamout condition and the Steam considered as LP. Neutral Axis shifted) given for Basering analysis in PV-Elite software. Courtesy : Mr. the behavior of the foundation is similar to that of a reinforced concrete beam. Simplified or steel on steel & 2. and because the strain in the concrete cross section must be equal to the strain in the base ring at any specific location. For baserings that are located on a steel substructure the recommendation is to use the simplified method.July 10 at 12:27am · Like 49) Dushyant Verma Dear All. If there is a net bending moment on the foundation. then the force upward on the bolts must be balanced by the force downward on the concrete.July 12 at 6:23pm · Like · 4 Bhargav Rudakiya When the Table UG-84. 1: The simplified method will design thicker basering The approximate method simply calculates the compressive load on the concrete assuming that the neutral axis for the vessel is at the centerline. There are two different options (1. But because these two materials have different modulas of elasticity. 2: The Neutral Axis Shift Method will design thinner basering when a steel skirt and base ring are supported on a concrete foundation. Static Equipment Group .(this is the LP steam Pressure) so in hydrocarbon industry most of the eqpts are cleaned by using steam ….4 applicable??? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 13 at 7:41pm via mobile Mitul Patel likes this.

Please look any interpretation on this by ASME.85 From above options correct answer is (b) . 1 d. which allows impact test temperature to be warmer than specified MDMT.85. we can take advantage of this clause and consider warmer temperature for impact testing.Facebook . 0. Its answer lies in UW-12(d) It's applicability is as described below: The shells and heads of vessels which are considered seamless. For example. one joining a seamless Hemispherical head to shell was radiographed for full length and the other joint joining seamless std. The weld joint efficiency for each of these heads respectively will be: a.85. Each specimen must be tested at a temperature not warmer than the minimum design metal temperature unless allowed otherwise by Table UG-84. Please share your views…. 0. 0. unless otherwise specified by Owner. The Efficiencies used to calculate these vessel parts are not found on Table UW-12 but are instead listed in paragraph UW-12(d). UG-84.85 b. In yesterday questionnaire about static equipment. if on site if we wants to carry out impact testing then it might sometime become difficult to maintain MDMT to test.UW-12 (d) Dear All.4 is not allowed and hence we didnot used it…July 15 at 1:33pm · Like Hemant Solanki Each set of impact tests requires three specimens that must conform to the size and shape requirements of Fig. SA 516 all grades have yield strength <40 KSI and hence we can take 10ºC warmer temperature for impact testing. 1 c. July 14 at 10:18am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Agree with Mitul. It's states that Static Equipment Group . E. 1. Joint efficiency of head in both case will remain 1. Two head to shell joints. Page 187 of 390 There is no specific conditions are given for applicability. 1.g. there was one question about decision of joint efficiency for seamless head Q.4. In my currect project Owner has clearly mentioned in specification that advantage of Table UG-84. 0. I think this will be useful when testing going to be carried out in such region where to maintain MDMT is a problem. For materials covered under Part UCS. torispherical head to shell was spot radiographed.July 15 at 6:20pm · Like Hemant Solanki Joint efficiency for seamless head.

FYI : in above question hemispherical head is considered seamless. (This will be RT-3 Marking). (This will be RT-2 Marking) If in case they would have mentioned that head to shell junction is not satisfying minimum spot radiography requirements of UW.11(a)(5)(b).85 when the rules have not been applied. 0.85 when the spot radiography requirements of UW-11(a)(5)(b) are not met. Not hemispherical. Remember that there only two (2) joint efficiencies possible for Seamless Shell and Seamless Heads they are. This is what I understood from UW-12 (d).52 Spot RT applied). 5.0. for both mentioned cases fabricator has satisfied minimum spot radiography requirements of UW. E=1. Unless Shop A performs at least Spot RT on the Category B welds (or Category A weld in case of Hemi head) connecting the heads to the shell.11(a)(5)(b). Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 16 at 10:47am via Email Patel Sajit Here for hemispherical head to shell joint no issue of joint efficeincy.85 1. Page 188 of 390 "Seamless vessel sections or heads shall be considered equivalent to welded parts of the same geometry in which all Category A welds are Type No. (UW-52 Spot RT not applied).85 even though it is procured seamless. Joint efficiency E will be 0. 1 (Why Type No.11(a)(5)(b) are met.0 when the spot radiography requirements of UW.0 or 0.Facebook . Shop B fully radiographs the Type 1 weld and the shell part will be delivered to Shop A with a joint E of 1. or when the Category A or B welds connecting seamless vessel sections or heads are Type No. or 6 of Table UW-12 (Why for these types? Because these are not easily radiographable.85 for calculating shell and head thickness. 3. I would like to give one interesting example on above discussions : Code Shop A buys a rolled and welded shell from Code Shop B. Now Code Shop A welds on two seamless formed heads. Members can share their views on it.0 when the rules of UW-11(a)(5)(b) have been applied (UW.Hence as per uw-12d it is not complying Static Equipment Group .1 ? for ease in radiography). We can assume it seamless if Full RT is carried out on weld joints of hemispherical head. then seamless head will be required to design with joint efficiency equals to 0. Type 3 to 6 cannot be radiographed by Code rules)." In above question. E= 0. Still above rules apply while calculating hemispherical dish end thickness. Actually as per code only eliptical and torispherical is considered as seamless. Even though Shop B has performed Full RT on rolled shell and made it equivalent to seamless. which is essentially equal to a seamless shell. For calculations involving circumferential stress in seamless vessel sections or for thickness of seamless heads. 4. And Shop A has procured seamless heads. So joint efficiency will be 1 in both case while calculating seamless head thickness. 1. DO NOT GO TO TABLE UW-12 FOR THE 'E' TO USE IN SEAMLESS HEADS OR SEAMLESS SHELLS. for tori head to shell joint :only one spot is taken as per question langauge.

2) The failure of a single locking component while the vessel is pressurized will not: i) Cause or allow the closure to be opened or leaked. Hence E=1 is correct in both case….5. July 16 at 3:22pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Don‟t know much about its fatigue analysis requirement. ii) All vessels shall be provided with a pressure-indicating device visible from the operating area and suitable to detect pressure at the closure.5. Page 189 of 390 requirement of uw11a5b hence joint efficiency for tori head shall be 0.2..July 16 at 11:30am · Like Chetan Patel Dear friends.July 16 at 11:20am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Even though they took one spot. Brijesh Patel I don have answer for yr que but QOP must not be used if it is Hydrogen Service as per UOP. 4) When installed: i) It may be determined by visual external observation that the holding elements are in satisfactory condition. I have one filter with div.Facebook . Need your view and understanding. 5. fatigue analysis is required. Now vendor is telling that fatigue analysis not required as per cl. As per clause no. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 16 at 11:32am via mobile Brijesh Patel and Chetan H Prajapati like this. If additional spot taken.85. this adfitional spot is addition to uw-52 than joint effieciny shall 1. 2) Pressure tending to force the closure open or discharge the contents clear of the vessel shall be Static Equipment Group . But as mentioned in question it is taken at shell to head joint.2 for our group members.11(a)(5)(b) requirement. or iii) Increase the stress in any other locking or holding element by more than 50% above the allowable stress of the component. or ii) Result in the failure of any other locking component or holding element. We are changing our QOC for one of the coelescer as it is H2 service. So it is complying UW. b) Specific Design Requirements Quick-actuating closures that are held in position by positive locking devices and that are fully released by partial rotation or limited movement of the closure itself or the locking mechanism and any closure that is other than manually operates shall be so designed that when the vessel is installed the following conditions are met: 1) The closure and its holding elements are fully engaged in their intended operating position before pressure can be applied in the vessel. But I want to share some points on quick opening closure as per Div. 3) All locking components can be verified to be fully engaged by visual observation or other means prior to application if pressure to the vessel.2. as quick closure fall in shear ring closure category. 2 design code and quick opening closure is there and moc alloy 825. 5.1 (a) (2).0 because this will satisy requirement of uw11a5b…. a) General Design Requirements Quick-actuating closures shall be designed such that: 1) The locking elements will be engaged prior to or upon application of the pressure and will not disengage until the pressure is released.3 step 6.

c) Alternative Designs for Manually Operated Closures Quick-actuating closures that are held in position by a locking mechanism designed for manual operation shall be designed such that if an attempt is made to open the closure when the vessel is under pressure.Facebook . Brijesh Patel and 7 others like this. Patel Sajit Good one for understanding. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 17 at 10:02am via Facebook for Windows Phone Darshan Rajput. shell is seamless…July 17 at 10:56am via mobile · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . Any leakage shall be directed away from the normal position of the operator. The designer shall consider the effects of cyclic loading.July 17 at 4:20pm · Like · 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hemant Solanki This is the simplest explanation of UW-12 (d) requirements to decide E for Seamless components while doing thickness calculation as per code even though components are made up seamless without any joints. and mechanical wear on the holding and locking components.B provides additional design information for the Manufacturer and provides installation…. Purav Desai. d) Supplementary Requirements Annex 4. But applicable when all components both head. the closure will leak prior to full disengagement of the locking components and release of the closure. Page 190 of 390 released before the closure can be fully opened for access. other loadings.

Page 191 of 390

Hemant Solanki Yes.
Even with head and shell which are fully radiographed over its weld seams to consider it as seamless
shell and head…July 17 at 10:59am · Like

Suraj Kr Tiwari If u are saying seamless then why u written no category A weld..July 17 at
2:52pm via mobile · Like

Hemant Solanki Because that example is covering seamless pipe welded to seamless head. So
practically in that case there is no Category A joint exist. If you observe in that figure even though
Category A joint is not exist still joint efficiency E taken as 0.85 in shell thickness calculation as it has
not followed minimum spot radiography requirement at both end of shell to dish end joint. At one end
spot radiography is followed and on another end not followed the same.

Seamless vessel sections or heads shall be considered equivalent to welded parts of the same geometry
in which all Category A welds are Type No. 1 and fully radiographed over its weld seam.

In yesterday example Shop B also did the same. They fabricated shell with full radiography applied
over its long weld seam i.e. Category A. and then same is dispatched to Shop A. so this shell course
can be treated as seamless component even though existence of Category A weld. Still In order to take
joint efficiency E as 1 in calculation, UW- 11(a)(5)(b) requirement shall be met by Shop A while testing
shell to head joint at both ends (i.e. Category . On both shell to dish end joint (Category Shop A can
select portion which intersects with Category A joint (i.e. „T‟ joint) for spot radiography. Main concern is
to satisfy UW- 11(a)(5)(b) requirement in order to take joint efficiency E as 1 in thickness calculation of
both shell and dish end….July 17 at 3:38pm · Like

Suraj Kr Tiwari I think in UW-12(d) ASME should add one more thing i.e Degree of radiography is full
when it states seamless vessel sections or heads shall be considered equivalent to welded parts of the
same geometry in which all Category A weld are Type No.1…July 18 at 7:15am via mobile · Like

Thiruppathi Rajan
I have one doubt about Pass partition plate. As per TEMA RCB 9.132, that formula has q
(pressure drop across PP plate). Which will be that, the pressure drop shall be taken from
process data sheet, or different. please reply
Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 18 at 10:54am
Purav Desai Generally most Client specifications ask to design pass partition plates for allowable tube
side pressure drop as per datasheet. Also as per API 660, cl. 7.4.2 "The pressure differential used to
calculate the pass-partition plate thickness in accordance with TEMA (8th edition), RCB-9.132, shall be
the allowable tube-side pressure drop of the entire exchanger unit."..July 18 at
11:45am · Edited · Like · 1

Mihir Jha Design Of Pass Parttion plate or Longitudinal baffles follow the same procedure. Pass
partition is designed for maximum tube side pressure drop and longitudunal baffles is designed for the
shell side pressure drop. These values shall be taken from process datasheet…July 18 at
11:46am · Like

Purav Desai
Extract of Codecase 1855-1_Code stamping for Design as per Multiple ASME Sections.

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Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 22 at 7:59am
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Mahadevan Venkiteswaran
Can a condenser be designed for Shell side and channel side as per ASME Section VIII
division 1 and the tubesheet to ASME Section 1 to take advantage of the flexible
tubesheet. Has anyone actually executed such a design. Mind throwing light on this
Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 20 at 3:40pm
Mrudang Mehta Had done exactly same design when in LTC for Qatar project.. Vendor was IIlsung
Korea…July 20 at 4:18pm via mobile · Like

Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Was it code stamped. Did AI object to code mix up. Was the flange part
of tubesheet thickened due to hoop stress…July 20 at 4:37pm · Like

Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Hemant / Purav any reply to my query..July 22 at 12:44am · Like

Purav Desai Hi Mahadevan Venkiteswaran, I checked ur query with one of the best Korean
manufacture (DKME), they replied to me that in such sitauations, code case 1855-1 shall be referred.
Refer the beow link for code case 1855-
1.http://internal.goscheck.com:8080/QC/QC_Tools/1855.pdf…July 22 at 7:41am · Like

Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Thanks Purav, as usual a crisp reply…July 22 at 10:27pm · Like · 1

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Pramod Kshirsagar
What is minimum gasket seating width to be considered in Flange Design?
Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 24 at 9:24pm
Susan Shrestha for recommended gasket width refer ASME sec VIII div 1 appendix 2…July 24 at
9:32pm · Like · 1

Piyush Patel As per tema…July 24 at 9:33pm via mobile · Like

Pramod Kshirsagar thanks…July 24 at 9:36pm · Like

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Pramod Kshirsagar I will check the difference in ASME and TEMA for optimizing the design and
comment…July 24 at 9:37pm · Like

Rohitash Singh Panwar Minimum required gasket width should be calulated by. b bolt area x
allowble stress) / (2x 3.14 xG x y)…July 25 at 12:08am via mobile · Like · 1

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Hemant Solanki
Appendix 2 - Bolt Spacing Correction Factor

Appendix 2 – Bolt Spacing Correction Factor
It is a well known fact that if too few bolts are used on a flange it is possible to develop
secondary bending stresses in between the bolts that would lead to non-uniform
compression on the gasket. Excessive bolt spacing can result in a flange that is more
prone to leakage. The well-known Taylor Forge Bulletin 502 “Modern Flange Design”
contained an equation to calculate maximum bolt spacing as well as an equation to adjust
the design moment when the bolt spacing exceeded a certain limit. Many companies
invoke these rules as part of their internal specifications, but there has always been
resistance within ASME Section VIII to add these rules to Appendix 2. Many committee
members argued that “if it‟s not broke, don‟t fix it”, meaning that the Appendix 2 flange
design rules have been in the book now for over 45 years without this bolt spacing
correction factor, so they fail to see the need to add it at this time. However from an
engineering point of view, it is hard to ignore the presence of this additional stress on the
flange and potential for leakage of the joint. With the current provision in UG-99(g),
leakage is a Code issue for flanged joints, and the spacing limitation is appropriate. The
compromise that was reached during the balloting of this item was that the bolt spacing
and correction factor rules would be introduced into Appendix 2, but they would only
become mandatory when the vessel is designated for lethal service, or when the user or
his designated agent specifies the use of these rules.
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Hemant Solanki
UG-19 (a) (2) - (a) (3)

UG-19(a)(2) - Mean Metal Temperature Design-
Section VIII, Division 1 permits the design of common elements of vessels made up of two
or more chambers to be based on differential pressure acting on the common
element, as well as an mean wall temperature. Detailed rules addressing differential
pressure design as well as mean metal temperature design were added to the Code in the
2006 Addenda. The version of paragraph UG-19(a)(2) addressing mean metal temperature
design resulted from some final "wordsmithing" that took place during the
balloting of this item. Upon later review of this paragraph, as well as the Intent
interpretation that was published, it was determined that the previous words could use
some clarity. In UG 19(a)(2) it previously stated: "When mean metal temperature design
is used, the maximum design temperature of one of its adjacent chambers shall not
exceed the maximum common element design temperature determined in accordance
with UG-20(a)." This is wrong, because it suggests that the mean wall temperature of the

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common element can never be less than the maximum design temperature of one of the
chambers. The only way this could be true is if the maximum design temperature of both
chambers is identical. The paragraph was revised to read: "When mean metal temperature
design is used, the maximum common element design temperature determined in
accordance with UG-20(a) may be less than the greater of the maximum design
temperatures of its adjacent chambers; however, it shall not be less than the lower of the
maximum design temperatures of its adjacent chambers."

UG-19(a)(3) Example :
Here is an example of a Utube heat exchanger (attached image) whereby heat transfer
takes place between the shell side and tube side fluids. The shell side fluid enters the heat
exchanger at 300°F and exits at 240°F. The tube side fluid enters at 90°F and exits at
120°F. If one were designing this heat exchanger based on the maximum design
temperatures from either chamber, then the tubes would be designed based on a
maximum temperature of 300°F. However UG-20(a) permits the design temperature to be
based on mean metal temperature (through the thickness) expected under operating
conditions. The mean metal temperature shall be determined by computation or by
measurement from
equipment in service under equivalent operating conditions.
Note: Nonmandatory Appendix C provides guidance on obtaining the operating
temperature of vessel walls in service.
If the designer of this heat exchanger wishes, he can reduce the maximum design
temperature for the common elements (tubes and tubesheet) based on a mean wall
temperature calculated from a heat transfer analysis, or perhaps based on previous
operational experience. Depending upon the fluid flow in each of the chambers, it is
possible that the mean wall temperature of the tubes would be significantly less than the
actual temperature on the shell side of 300°F. In this example the SB-359 tubes can be
designed for 145°F. One reason he may want to take advantage of a mean wall design
temperature, would be to make use of Appendix 23 which provides an alternative
procedure for establishing the maximum allowable external working pressure for heat
exchanger tubes. Appendix 23 rules are based on an actual external proof test, and often
result in a much higher external pressure rating than one would achieve by direct
calculations per UG-28. However Appendix 23 limits copper tubes to a maximum design
temperature of 150°F. So unless one takes advantage of establishing the actual mean wall
temperature in operation for this heat exchanger, the designer would not be able to make
use of Appendix 23 rules.
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 25 at 6:14pm via Email
Rajendra Sharma and Jong Dai Park like this.

Rohitash Singh Panwar I think one thing we need to take care for designing the tubes for neam
metal temperature is that...the tube side flow should be continuous....

July 26 at 9:03am via mobile · Like · 1

Hemant Solanki
Code Case 2651 - Rules for the Design of Electric Immersion Heater

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The current rules for reinforcement of multiple openings in flat covers used to support
electric element heaters result in greater thicknesses than rules consistent with those in
Part UHX. Flanged electric immersion heaters consist of tubular electric heating elements
typically mounted in multiple penetrations in ASME B16.5 blind flanges. Under the current
Code rules and interpretations, a flanged electric immersion heater element support plate
is not considered a tubesheet but rather an unstayed flat head or cover.
Therefore, the rules in Part UHX are not applicable and the cover thickness requirements
are calculated using the formulas and rules in UG-34 and UG-39. For multiple
penetrations, the rules in UG-39(d)(2) require the value under the square root sign in
formula UG-34 (c)(2), Formula (2) to be doubled for both operating and bolting
calculations. This causes the thickness to be unnecessarily greater than that computed
using the Part UHX methodology.
Typically blind flanges are used for the electric immersion heater element support plate.
However it is not uncommon for a manufacturer to be forced to use the next higher class
of blind flange in order to achieve the minimum thickness requirements for both operating
and bolting as calculated by UG-34 and UG-39. Moreover the required thicknesses as
determined by these rules are typically 20% to 30% thicker than similar calculations for
heat exchanger tubesheets subjected to the same pressure and temperature. The
Subgroup on Heat Transfer Equipment of Section VIII developed special rules for the
design of immersion heater element support plates, based upon the rules in UHX-12 for U-
tube tubesheets. These new rules will be published in a Mandatory Appendix in VIII-1 in
the 2011 Addenda. An early implementation Code Case, Case 2651, has been approved
for use, effective June 25, 2010. Note that some minor revisions were made to this Case,
and Revision 1 (Case 2651-1) was approved for use on September 8, 2010.

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Ronak Patel
What factor of safety considered in ASME SEC VIII Div.I??

Asked in Godrej & Boyce interview
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Viral Patel likes this.

Hemant Solanki uts/3.5 or 2/3*YS….July 19 at 6:56pm via mobile · Like · 2

Hemant Solanki THE ALLOWABLE TENSILE STRESSES ARE BASED ON THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:

(1) AT TEMPERATURES BELOW THE CREEP/RUPTURE RANGE, THE LOWEST OF:
(A) 1/3.5 OF THE SPECIFIED MINIMUM TENSILE STRENGTH.:
(B) 1/3.5 OF THE TENSILE STRENGTH AT TEMPERATURE;
(C) 2/3 OF THE SPECIFIED MINIMUM YIELD STRENGTH;
(D) 2/3 OF THE YIELD STRENGTH AT TEMPERATURE.

IN ADDITION, FOR AUSTENITIC STAINLESS STEELS AND CERTAIN NICKEL AND NICKEL ALLOYS,
EXCLUDING BOLTING, FLANGES, AND OTHER STRAIN SENSITIVE USEAGE WHERE SLIGHTLY
GREATER DEFORMATION IS NOT OBJECTIONABLE, THE FACTOR ON THE YIELD STRENGTH AT

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TEMPERATURE MAY BE INCREASED FROM 2/3 TO 0.9.
THIS GIVES ANOTHER, HIGHER, SET OF ALLOWABLE STRESSES FOR DESIGN.

(2) AT TEMPERATURES IN THE CREEP/RUPTURE RANGE, THE LOWEST OF:
(A) 1.0 OF THE AVERAGE STRESS TO PRODUCE A CREEP RATE OF 0.01% IN 1,000 HOURS (ASSUMED
TO EQUAL 1% IN 100,000 HOURS);
(B) 0.8 OF THE MINIMUM STRESS TO PRODUCE RUPTURE AT THE END OF 100,000 HOURS;
(c) 0.67 OF THE AVERAGE STRESS TO PRODUCE RUPTURE AT THE END OF 100,000 HOURS.

July 27 at 12:07pm · Edited · Like · 1

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Hemant Solanki
BASIS FOR ESTABLISHING ALLOWABLE COMPRESSIVE STRESSES:

THE BASIS FOR ESTABLISHING ALLOWABLE COMPRESSIVE STRESSES IS GIVEN
IN APPENDIX 3 OF SECTION II, PART D. THESE BASIS ARE:

(1) FOR CYLINDERS UNDER AXIAL LOADINGS, THE STRESS IS THE LOWEST OF:
(A)1/4 CRITICAL BUCKLING STRESS PLUS 50% FACTOR FOR TOLERANCE;
(B) 1/2 SPEC. MINIMUM YIELD STRENGTH OR YIELD STRENGTH AT TEMP.;
(C) 100% AVERAGE STRESS TO PRODUCE CREEP RATE OF 1% IN 100,000 HR.;
(D) 100% ALLOWABLE STRESS IN TENSION AT DESIGN TEMPERATURE.

(2) FOR CYLINDERS & TUBES UNDER EXTERNAL PRESSURE, THE LOWEST OF:
(A) 1/3 CRITICAL BUCKLING STRESS PLUS 80% FACTOR FOR TOLERANCE;
(B) 1/3 SPEC. MINIMUM YIELD STRENGTH OR YIELD STRENGTH AT TEMP.;
(C) 67% AVERAGE STRESS TO PRODUCE CREEP RATE OF 1% IN 100,000 HR.;
(D) 100% ALLOWABLE STRESS IN TENSION AT DESIGN TEMPERATURE.

(3) FOR SPHERES & SPHERICAL PARTS.OF HEADS UNDER EXTERNAL PRESSURE,
THE LOWEST OF:.
(A) 1i4 CRITICAL BUCKLING STRESS PLUS 60% FACTOR FOR TOLERANCE;
(B) 1/4 SPEC. MINIMUM YIELD STRENGTH OR YIELD STRENGTH AT TEMP.;
(C) 50% AVERAGE STRESS TO PRODUCE CREEP RATE OF 1% IN 100,000 HR.;
(D) 100% ALLOWABLE STRESS IN TENSION AT DESIGN TEMPERATURE.
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Hemant Solanki
Graphite Block Heat Exchangers

Graphite materials are used in heat exchangers because they provide good refractory and
mechanical properties but still maintain a high thermal conductivity.
Graphite heat exchangers provide excellent corrosion resistance to a wide variety of
chemicals and are therefore commonly used in the following industries such as; chemical
refining and processing, petrochemical, food and beverage, pharmaceutical, fertilizer, steel
pickling, mining and metal finishing.

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Types of Graphite Heat Exchangers
Cubic Heat Exchangers
Manufactured from a solid block of graphite with a square cross-section, the Cubic Block
type heat exchangers is a simple design that is easy to maintain. The solid graphite block
is kept in compression so this design is resistant to thermal and hydraulic shock as well as
external loads.

Description
The graphite block is maintained under compression by assembly plates tightened by tie
rods. Each lateral face of the block is drilled with parallel cylindrical holes to allow fluid
flow. The rows of holes are alternated through the thickness of the block.. Headers can be
equipped with baffle plates to provide a multipass design if needed. This optimises the
distribution of the two fluids by making conditions as close as possible to real
countercurrent flow, which is particularly useful in energy recovery applications. It is also
possible to vary the cross section or to have split flow. PTFE gaskets are used between the
block and headers - no other gaskets are required.

Advantages

* No gaskets or cemented parts between flow channels.
* Resistant to thermal shock
* Easy cleaning

* short channels
* simple dismantling and assembly

The main reason for employing Polybloc Graphite Block Heat Exchangers is their great
flexibility. Best described as a series of block heat exchangers staked together and
installed in a shell, POLYBLOC(r) Heat Exchangers are modular which makes maintenance
and expansion easy.

Corrosive fluids contact only the impervious graphite blocks having complete resistance to
all acids, alkalis and solvents with the exception of a few strong oxidizing agents. The
POLYBLOC(r) steel shell can be lined with suitable material or furnished in alloy materials
to resist practically all corrosives, thereby allowing handling of two corrosive fluids.
Advantages:

* Rapid replacement of damaged blocks due to compact modular design
* High thermal efficiency, flexible in design and Compact
Easy maintenance (cleaning and block replacement are very simple / simple dismantling
and assembly)
* Corrosive media can be used in both service and process sides
* Capacity can be increased by adding block elements

Features / Design Options:

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polymerization or condensation reactions. coolers. Including hydrolysis. * Boiling liquids in evaporation or distillation plants. during the reaction. steam. brine. Static Equipment Group . Page 198 of 390 * ASME Construction and Stamp Available High Pressure Design * Radial Multipass * Axial Multipass * Four Available Impregnations * Large Diameter Process Holes Available Application: * Overhead condensers and sump coolers * Pickling line heaters * Reactor heat exchangers. Polytube Graphite Shell and Tube Heat Exchangers Graphite shell and tube heat exchangers are used as heaters. etc. gases or fluids. evaporators and absorbers. condensers. * Circulation coolers for quenchers * Heating or cooling of corrosive fluids with water. falling- film coolers. especially in the treatment of: * hydrolic acid * sulphur acid * hydroflouric acid * phospheric acid * chlorinated acid * organic and inorganic media * waste acids * combustion gases Advantages: * Low pressure drops and high efficiency * Large heat exchange area * Excellent resistant to stress and pressure surges * Special grades of tubes with higher strength and better corrosion resistance are available * The units are easy to repair and bundles can be replaced Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 9:50am via Email 2 people like this.Facebook . where heat must be removed or supplied rapidly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hemant Solanki Effective gasket width during different loading conditions of flange.

t<a<1. In one case I've checked below results with software: Expanded only.Facebook .4t): 161 Welded and expanded (all possible combination): 143 I have below questions: 1.What is the difference between lightly expanded and expanded? Is the difference just about tube wall thinning or existence of grooves govern the identification? Static Equipment Group . expanded with 2 groove: same result for 3 cases 143mm Welded (all methods including a>1. Hemant Nikam and 12 others like this. expanded with 1 groove.4t.How the joint type (weld or expand) affect the calculation ? where in UHX it is clarified ? 2. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hemant Solanki Tube to Tubesheet joint effect on Tubesheet thickness I have gone through UHX but can not find the effect of tube to tubesheet joint type on tubesheet thickness calculation. Page 199 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 8:54pm via Facebook for Windows Phone Deepak Garg.When we have "Strength welded plus lightly expanded" : 2-1.What is the sequence? 2-2. Ramdas Kadam.

it is specified that welding is to be done first. In majority cases.August 1 at 1:44pm · Edited · Like Pramod Kshirsagar 3) Weld ability is decreased if it is done after expansion because of cold hardening of expanded surface. If we will consider welded only.August 2 at 12:56am · Like Niraj Pandya Point no-2 -It is not mostly or commonly followed . Page 200 of 390 2-3.. Rough hole of tube sheet will provide you more strength at lower expansion of tube to withstand high pressure and mainly temperature smooth hole will provide you leak proof joint at lower pressure with higher expansion . 3) First strength weld will be done and after that expansion will be done so that expansion will not restrict gases to come out caused during welding.Can we consider this as "welded and expanded" or it's just "welded" and expanding is not participating in load carrying? Any comments and discussion is highly appreciated.-Now what is your application do you need high pressure joint or low pressure joint ?at what temperature ? on that basis we creating hole roughness by providing Grooves and Deciding the Type of expansion…. It depends on tube wall thinning.do you need Rough hole of tube sheet or smooth hole? . Viral Patel Hemant.eng-tips. Let‟s take view of other people also….Just copy and paste the code below into your site. 4) Type of expansion does not depend on existence of grooves. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 9:35am via Email Kiran Gawade likes this. we will have to consider length of expansion (lhx) as „0‟ which will increase your required tubesheet hickness. This is debatable topic as if u do welding first and then do the expansion. But if you refer Saudi Aramco specification.com Add Stickiness To Your Site By Linking To This Professionally Managed Technical Forum. 2) I have never seen a case where only strength welded is specified. And hence Some company does not allow to consider light expansion in UHX calculation.August 2 at 8:27am · Like ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Purav DesaiStatic Equipment Group Heat Exchanger Expanded tube to tubesheet Joint: Location of Groove within Tubesheet ASME (mechanical) Code Issues . Strength welded with light expansion will be there as light expansion will not allow shell side fluid to enter in space between tube and tubesheet.Double groove expanded tube to tubesheet joint www.Facebook . Static Equipment Group . it will damage tube-tubesheet weld. 1) I think there is no any direct impact of Tube-Tubesheet Joint in Tubesheet design apart from Tube Expansion ratio. 5) light expansion doesn‟t take part in load bearing capacity.It is to be decided by application engineer of process keeping factor in mind .

Facebook . etc. (-b). * Fifth-level breakdowns are now designated as (+a). (c). as in the past. starting with the 2011 Addenda.. (+b). etc. as in the past. * Sixth-level breakdowns are now designated as (+1).15 hours ago · Like Purav Desai As I mentioned in this post subject. The point seems concluding from their discussion was ti locate groove at the side which is more corrosive…. etc. technical experts were discussing regarding placement of grove within tubesheet thk. * Second-level breakdowns are designated as (1). that should be noted to aid navigating the contents. (+2). * Third-level breakdowns are now designated as (-a). etc. (-2). etc.14 hours ago via mobile · Like ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hemant Solanki Change in Subparagraph Breakdowns/Nested Lists Hierarchy in Latest BPVC 2013 codes There have been structural and stylistic changes to BPVC. * Fourth-level breakdowns are now designated as (-1). (+c). etc. (3). Can you just brief out conclusions from these posts…. (2). Page 201 of 390 Like · · Share · July 22 at 10:39am · Hemant Solanki Purav. The following is an overview of the changes: Subparagraph Breakdowns/Nested Lists Hierarchy will be now as follows * First-level breakdowns are designated as (a). (b). Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 6 at 10:36am via Email Static Equipment Group . (-3). (-c)..

Pvelite is taking care by calculating hr for operating and seating conditions in all proposed load cases entered by user….. And in next revision they submitted hr calculation in all design conditions including testing condition by some setting change done in compress. then hr shall be calculated as per UHX-9. we have asked them to perform. it doesn‟t mean that we should ignore other design conditions while evaluating hr... vendor has performed hr calculation in all design conditions with compress. That‟s why ASME has specially putted it to consider its effect while evaluating hr. as testing will be carried out with one chamber at a time.5 Tubesheet Flanged Extension thickness: Dear group members. Page 202 of 390 Mitul Patel UHX-9.if there are no collar bolts then it is not required to calculate the hr . I think compress is misinterpreting UHX-9. If bolt load is not applied specially in case of Configuration d (it will not be a case in Configuration b). In my recent project for Configuration b... which calculates hr based on differential pressure acting due to shell and channel side pressure.as after flange assebly the flanges are not in contact with ectended portion of tubeshheet . in both configuration extended portion will serve the purpose of bearing testing pressure as well as bolting loads during testing condition. Justification is that in normal operation extended portion does not carry any bolt load because it is sandwiched & not acting as flange..4.all bolt load is taken by the end of flanges only.Facebook . it considers bolting effect on head thickness due to bending as considered in flat head design as per UG-34. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 12 at 1:51pm via mobile Hemant Solanki Let us Consider Configuration d (Tubesheet Gasketed With Shell and Channel) and Configuration b (Tubesheet Integral With Shell and Gasketed With Channel.. Is it correct? Further to this for application involving collar bolts (which is nowadays common practise also recommended by many clients and API 660) is it required to calculate hr for design conditions also? Because in this case collar will be transferring load to tube sheet. For tube sheet sandwiched between flanges Compress programme calculates tube sheet extension thickness hr (UHX-9.no Static Equipment Group ... Extended as a Flange) If bolt load is applied in both configurations it is required to calculate extended portion thickness as per UHX-9.5( c).5) only for hydro test condition not for design conditions. Please share your views. I remember in one of my project vendor did the same by ignoring other design conditions in compress while evaluating hr.5 (a).August 12 at 5:36pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I think for extended tubesheet gasketed on both sides..

hr value to be calculated for all load cases. extented tubesheet.August 12 at 9:38pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai I agree with Rohitash Panwar. even though collar bolts are not there but if we sandwich extended portion in between both flanges than that portion also need to be check under bolting loads.......August 12 at 8:06pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Yes it is complete assembly but as per my understanding...August 13 at 8:05am via mobile · Like Patel Sajit In TEMA INQUIRY : Same question was asked and TEMA reply is as below…August 13 at 3:10pm · Edited · Like Patel Sajit Question : Is it required to calculate.as there is gap between the flange and extended portion of tubesheet. I think compress is doing calculation in correct way….... as it will act as whole assembly with end flanges. it is expected that the tubesheet will be subjected to an overturning moment by being bolted to either the tubeside flange alone or the shellside flange alone in a test situation... If in Configuration d extended portion is not there than same hr can be calculated as per UHX-9... You are talking about Configuration d.all bolt loads taken by the back portion of both flanges through nuts..August 13 at 3:08pm · Like Patel Sajit Answer:No.so in that case it is required..August 13 at 3:09pm · Like · 2 Tejas Shah What is the main difference between WRC 107 & WRC 297 and which is more strigent ? Commonly WRC 107 use for nozzle on dish end and WRC 297 fr nozzles on shell but in COMPRESS CODEWARE there is no option fr WRC 297. Static Equipment Group . however it is recognized that if the tubesheet is supplied with a flanged extension.Facebook .the bolts are only pass through the extended portion. the thickness of the flanged extension should be calculated using Pb for the test conditions…. Normally flange as well as tubesheet bolt holes are not tapped so bolt load will not get transferred to extended portion of tubesheet and there will always be sone gap between flange and tubesheet due to gasket..for tubesheet fixed with shell.. for operating conditions. Page 203 of 390 need to check for bending. and accordingly client comment to use WRC 297 fr nozzles on shell .where bolt load is taken.the bolt load is not transferred to extended pirtion of tubesheet.....August 12 at 8:00pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Rohitash..the extended portion is subjected to bolt liad only during hydtotest condition for d type of configuration.. the thickness of the flanged extension of a tubesheet in a U-tube heat exchanger where the flanged extension is sandwiched between the tubeside and shellside flanges?... so use WRC 107. It also needs to check when we use tapped holes in tubesheet..by.5( c) as now bolt loads will not get transfer on tubesheet…. Therefore...but when collar bolts are there then the bolt load is transferred to exttended portin of tubesheet. Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 14 at 9:22pm via mobile Abdul Rasyid MK likes this.

. WRC 297 design rules allow stress calculations for thinner wall shells than WRC 107. Tried could not make anything except reinforcement govern the MAWP. But in this case if u reduce the head min thickness. and wall thickness limitations. Wt reason should reinforcement not govern the MAWP if vessel?. wrc 107 is now used only for nozzles on heads only.August 15 at 1:19am via mobile · Like · 1 Simran Singh Also WRC 107 does not calculate stress in nozzle wall whereas 297 calculates for both at nozzle shell junction…. Basicaly WRC 297 is more stringent than WRC 107…..August 15 at 10:51am · Like · 1 Selva Raj Hi. Nozzle reinforcement on head not adequate.August 14 at 11:02pm via mobile · Like Viral Patel In compress. wrc 297 can be done. Thanks. attachment diameter.August 15 at 6:58pm via mobile · Like · 1 Selva Raj Yes we can reduce the head min thickness after forming. such as thin walled vessels and tanks. Actly wrc 297 is more stringent than its counterpart 107….. Page 204 of 390 Sunil Sharma wrc 297 was introduced later for the nozzles on the cylindrical shells. I came across this problem in vessel nozzle design.is there any valid points that the reinforcement can govern the MAWP of the vessel so that we can convince the Client. Instead of increasing the reinforcement. Thanks for accepting my request. Most client specifications stating that vessel MAWP shall not be limited by nozzle reinforcement. not spherical shells. Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 15 at 6:05pm via mobile Mihir Jha This is a common problem. Somehow it is difficult to avoid this in vessels particularly if the shell or head having good margin on required thickness and there is space restriction to increase the nozzle reinforcement.August 15 at 7:07pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . Although WRC 297 is limited for those applications. There is a facility to perform FEA along with that.August 14 at 9:27pm · Like · 2 Bikas Paikray The main differences between WRC 107 and WRC 297 are that WRC 297 can be used only for cylindrical shells.Facebook . and only with a round hollow attachment. u will find option for wrc 297…. You can reduce the MAWP and make head to be governing by reducing the minimum after forming thickness…. Both WRC 107 and 297 have certain limits of shell diameter vs.

then SR nozzle to be provided else raise a concession request against this clause…. and equivalent forging and piping grades. If still the pad govern. however. unless already required at the normal design temperature. In present situation. Grades 1 or 6. typically. curve D should be used. unless it is required for a cold design temperature without considering auto refrigeration. then the vessel should be treated as subject to auto refrigeration and this used as a design basis to avoid brittle fracture Should be considered when selecting steels In some liquid services. such as LPG. grade LF 2.5 times head thickness.August 15 at 7:45pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Auto Refrigeration It is Defined as the temperature that the contents of the vessel would reach if the vessel is depressured to 40% of its MAWP If the temperature of auto refrigeration is less than 20_F. impact tested in accordance with their respective specifications Auto refrigeration is not considered equivalent to a cold design or operating temperature because of the lowered pressure. and pipe may be SA 333. Impact testing is not required for auto refrigeration. should by itself provide ample resistance to brittle fracture during auto refrigeration Impact testing is not required for auto refrigeration. therefore.Facebook . Steels from Code Figure UCS-66. the use of SA 516 steel. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · 19 hours ago via Email Static Equipment Group . SA 350 and SA 333 materials are. forgings may be SA 350. Page 205 of 390 Mihir Jha The client put this clause to know the MAWP for future rerating or change in process condition. the recommended safeguards against brittle fracture are not as stringent as for a cold operating temperature. these steels have good inherent toughness 2. a leak could do the following: -Reduce the pressure -Cause a drop in temperature -Cause the liquid to boil off Steel selection for pressure vessels subject to autorefrigeration Vessels subject to auto refrigeration require additional considerations: 1. And in future they dont want to govern the MAWP by minor components like pad which shall be costly to replace. carbon steel plate should be normalized SA 516. increase the pad thickness to 1.

gasket and bolting. · The design of flanges (ASME B 16. Pressure Equivalent method based on ASME B 16. This generates wire drawing effect on the mating surface of the flange. But as a general practice the following can be used: · Flanges with rating 600 or more · Flanges with rating 300 and size greater than 24 inch · Pipe flanges carrying caterogy M fluid service · Pipe flanges carrying Hydrogen or other flammable fluid · PSV lines with NPS 6 inch or more · Flanges in Jacketed Piping · Flanges where stress engineer finds a very high bending moment Analysis Methodology: Two widely used methods are practised in prevalent Process Industry.5) does not take into account the bending moment in the pipe. appendix 2. These are 1. · Process Piping Flanges are designed in accordance with BPV code. Section VIII. ASME BPVC Sec VIII Div 1 Appendix 2 method. Leakage checking is required. Division 1. Page 206 of 390 Hemant Solanki Methods for checking flange leakage Introduction: · Leakage is a function of the relative stiffnesses of the flange. Hence. Static Equipment Group . · Flanges are designed to remain leakfree under hydrostatic test pressure when cold and under operating pressure when hot. additional flexibility is to be provided when a flange joint is located near a point of high bending moment.3. using allowable stress and temperature limits of ASME B 31. Analysis Criteria: The criteria regarding when flange leakage checking is required should be mentioned in the ITB documents or project specs. So.5 pressure temperature table and 2.Facebook .

and the most severe will govern. Page 207 of 390 Pressure Equivalent Method: In this method the axial force (F) and bending moment (M) on the flange is converted into equivalent pressure (Pe) using following equations. Division 1. Pe1=4F/ΠG^2 Equivalent Pressure for bending moment.2 reproduced below: · Process Piping Flanges are designed in accordance with BPV code.Facebook . These calculated stresses are then compared with allowable stresses as given in BPVC code Sec VIII Div 1 Appendix 2.3. Static Equipment Group . ASME BPVC Sec VIII Div 1 Appendix 2 method: In this method flange stresses (longitudinal hub stress. appendix 2. Section VIII. Equivalent Pressure for Axial force. For calculating flange stresses one need to calculate the flange moment which is dependent on bolt load. radial flange stress and tangential flange stress) are calculated based on code provided equations/formulas. Clause 2-8. Here bo=basic gasket seating width as given in table 2-5. For more details of the equations and calculation methodology the above mentioned code can be referred. using allowable stress and temperature limits of ASME B 31. Bolt load has to be calculated for two design conditions. Pe2=16M/ΠG^3 Here G=diameter at location of gasket load reaction =(Gasket OD+ID)/2 when bo<=6 mm =(Gasket OD-2b) when bo>6 mm. operating & gasket seating.

Page 208 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 10:24am Sunil Sharma likes this.Facebook . Static Equipment Group .

Dm/T=(D-T)/T>50 (Here. d/D<0.Facebook . While both bulletins are used for nozzle connection. the engineer is permitted to use WRC 107/297 (or any other FEA) to check the stresses at the Nozzle- Shell junction point and check the stresses with allowable values provided by Codes. However there are some boundary conditions which must be met before using WRC. Boundary condition for using WRC 107: To determine whether WRC 107 bulletin can be used for local stress checking the following geometry guidelines must be met: 1. is intended only for cylindrical nozzles attached to cylindrical shells. This small write up will try to explain the required details for performing WRC 107 and WRc 297 using Caesar II and step by step method for performing WRC check. T=Vessel Thickness. d=Nozzle diameter. while WRC-297 assumes a circular opening in vessel. Both deal with "local" stress states in the vicinity of an attachment to a vessel or pipe. WRC-107 defines values for solid and hollow attachments of either round and rectangular shape for spherical shells but drops the solid/hollow distinction for attachments to cylindrical shells.. WRC-107 can be used for attachments to both spherical and cylindrical shells while WRC-297 only addresses cylinder to cylinder connections. If the stresses are found to be within allowable limit then the load and moment values can be accepted without any hesitation. As indicated by their titles.33 (Here. Page 209 of 390 Hemant Solanki WRC 107 and WRC 297 Introduction: Whenever Pressure Vessel or Heat exchanger (Static Equipment) nozzle loads exceeds the allowable values provided by Vendors (Equipment manufacturer) or standard project specific tables (guidelines). Dm=mean diameter of Static Equipment Group . Furthermore. WRC-107 is based on un-penetrated shell. on the other hand. D=Vessel outer diameter) 2. WRC- 297.

d/t>=20 and d/t<=100 (Here t=nozzle thickness) 3. Static Equipment Group . Nozzle at angle (Fig 3). Tangential Nozzle (Fig2). WRC-107 is used for local stress calculations and WRC-297 is used for flexibility calculations. The attachments for WRC 297 checking must be hollow but WRC 107 analyzes cylindrical or rectangular attachments which can be rigid or hollow. Page 210 of 390 vessel) Boundary condition for using WRC 297: To determine whether WRC 107 bulletin can be used for local stress checking the following geometry guidelines must be met: 1.Facebook . 5. D/T>=20 and D/T<=2500 4. WRC 297 is applicable only for normally (perpendicular) intersecting two cylindrical shells whereas WRC 107 is applicable for cylindrical as well as spherical shells of any intersection. Nozzle must be isolated (it may y not be close to a discontinuity) . d/T>=5 5.5 2. 4. 2.not within 2√(DT) on vessel and not within 2√(dt) on nozzle Difference between WRC 107 and 297: The major differences other than the boundary conditions mentioned above are listed below: 1. WRC 107 calculates only the vessel stresses while WRC 297 calculates Vessel stresses along with nozzle stresses. WRC 297 is not applicable for nozzles protruding inside the vessel (Fig 1). 3. Typically. d/D<=0.

Line list. Neither bulletin considers shell reinforcement nor do they address stress due to pressure. CAESAR II and PVElite & CodeCalc will not extrapolate data from the charts when geometric limitations mentioned above are exceeded.Facebook . Static Equipment Group . Extrapolated data may not be appropriate. Page 211 of 390 Limitations of WRC: Other than boundary conditions mentioned above there are few more limitations as mentioned below: 1. Inputs required for performing WRC checking: The following documents must be ready with you before you start to perform WRC 107/297 checking: 1. Nozzle details 3. Equipment Details/ General Arrangement drawing 2. 2. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 10:33am Arpita Shah. Samir Jani and 2 others like this.

Leakage will occur under pressure if the hydrostatic end force is sufficiently great and the difference between hydrostatic end force and the bolt-load reduces the gasket load below a critical value. They are: · Bolt Load which applies the initial compressive load that flows the gasket material into surface imperfections to form a seal. The following article will try to explain the main points related to gaskets.Facebook . Gaskets are used to create a static seal between two stationary members of a mechanical assembly (the flanged joint). an end force (Hydrostatic end force) tends to separate the flanges and to decrease the unit stress (Residual stress) on the gasket. Normally the gasket is seated by tightening the bolts on the flanges before the application of the internal pressure. The gasket must be able to maintain this seal under all the operating conditions of the system including extreme upsets of temperature and pressure. Page 212 of 390 Hemant Solanki Basics of Gaskets for leak proof Flanged joints Gasket is one of the basic elements for flanged joints in piping system of process plants. The amount of flow (seal) of the gasket material that is required to produce a tight seal is dependent upon the roughness of the surface. Upon the application of the internal pressure in the joint. Therefore. Working philosophy of a gasket to prevent leakage: Refer the above figure which shows the three major forces acting on the gasket. Static Equipment Group . To explain it in more clear language we can say that there are three principal forces acting on any gasketed joint. A gasket can be defined as a material or combination of materials clamped between two separable mechanical members of a mechanical joint (flanged joint) which produces the weakest link of the joint. it is important to ensure proper design and selection of the gaskets to prevent flange-leakage problems and avoid costly shutdowns of the process plants. The gasket material flows (interpose a semi-plastic material between the flange facings) into the imperfections between the mating surfaces by an external force (bolt tightening force) and maintain a tight seal (seals the minute surface irregularities to prevent leakage of the fluid) under operating conditions.

The larger the number used for "m". that tends to separate flanges when the system is pressurized. · It must be sufficient to maintain a residual load on the gasket/flange interface. Non-metallic gaskets are manufactured non-asbestos material or Compressed Asbestos Fibre (CAF). This unknown quantity "X" is what is known as the "m" factor in the ASME Pressure Vessel Code and will vary depending upon the type of gasket being used. · It must be sufficient to initially seat the gasket and flow the gasket into the imperfections on the gasket seating surfaces regardless of operating conditions. Page 213 of 390 · The hydrostatic end force. The initial compression force applied to a joint must serve several purposes. Even though there are other shock forces that may be created due to sudden changes in temperature and pressure. Now from a practical standpoint. Creep relaxation is another factor that may come into the picture. residual load on the gasket must be "X" times internal pressure if a tight joint is required to be maintained. tending to blow the gasket out of the joint and/or to bypass the gasket under operating conditions. glass fibre. · Internal pressure acting on the portion of the gasket exposed to internal pressure. Actually the "m" value is the ratio of residual unit stress (bolt load minus hydrostatic end force) on gasket to internal pressure of the system. elastomer. Non-asbestos types include arimid fibre. Full face gasket types are suitable for use with flat-face (FF) flanges and flat-ring gasket types are suitable for use with Static Equipment Group . the more assurance the designer has of obtaining a tight joint. Gasket Types: Gaskets can be grouped into three main categories as follows: · Non-metallic Gaskets: Usually composite sheet materials are used with flat face flanges and low pressure class applications.Facebook . · Initial compression force must be great enough to compensate for the total hydrostatic end force that would be present during operating conditions. Teflon (PTFE) and flexible graphite gaskets.

the spiral-wound gasket is made by winding a preformed-metal strip and a filler on the periphery of a metal winding mandrel. Cam profile and a variety of metal-reinforced graphite gaskets. Page 214 of 390 raised face (RF) flanges. · Graphite foil: The physical and chemical properties of graphite foil make it suitable as a sealing material for relatively arduous operating condition. It also has very good stress- relaxation properties. Following are descriptions of four major types. In an oxidizing environment. · Semi-metallic Gaskets: Semi-metallic gaskets are composites of metal and non-metallic materials. They are suitable for high-pressure and temperature applications and require high bolt load to seal. All spiral-wound gaskets are furnished with a centering ring. Common gasket configurations: Aside from the choice of gasket material. The ring also prevents the buildup of solids between the inside diameter of the gasket and the bore of pipe. The metal is intended to offer the strength and resiliency while the non-metallic portion of a gasket provides conformability and sealability. Commonly used semi-metallic gaskets are spiral wound. · Metallic Gaskets: Metallic gaskets are fabricated from one or a combination of metal to the desired shape and size. it has excellent chemical resistance. the ring protects against damage that would occur if a pieces of a broken component were drawn into the the system. male-and female and tongue and groove flanges. metal jacketed. and is not affected by most of the commercially used common chemicals. · Spiral-wound: As the name implies. Spiral-wound gaskets can operate at Static Equipment Group . these rings serve to locate the gasket centrally within the bolt circle. the configuration or structure of the gasket is also significant. it can be used at temperatures between -200 and 2.Facebook . In addition to controlling compression. Semi-metallic gaskets are used on raised face. Inner rings are used where the material (such as a gasket with PTFE filler) has a tendency for inward buckling. Under vacuum condition. Common metallic gaskets are ring- joint gaskets and lens rings.000°C. graphite foil can be used in the temperature range of -200 to +500°C. Because graphite foil has no binder materials. Semi metallic gaskets are designed for the widest range of operating conditions of temperature and pressure. and in a reducing atmosphere.

The hardness must be less than that of the flange material so that proper flow of material occurs without damaging flange surfaces.3 mm. · ASME B16. The sealing mechanism is based on point contact between the peaks of the corrugations and the mating flanges Gasket Standards: Following standards are normally adopted for specifying gaskets. 3. These joints are not generally pressure-actuated. · Ring-joint: Ring-joint gaskets are commonly used in grooved flanges for high-pressure-piping systems and vessels. However. These gaskets are designed to give very high gasket pressure with moderate bolt load. and aluminium.000°C. Their applicable pressure range is from 1.21 Non-metallic flat gaskets for pipe flanges. The most widely used ring-joint gaskets are of the oval and octagonal type. Octagonal gaskets can be used more than once.20 Metallic Gaskets for steel pipe flanges. · Corrugated-metal: This type of gasket is available in a wide range of metals.000 psi to compress the gasket.Facebook . they can be dimensioned more accurately. Ring Joint. including brass. The thickness of the metal is normally 0. Page 215 of 390 temperatures from -250 to 1. Spiral-wound gaskets up to 1-in. and 6. so they may not be the best choice for sealing flanges that have to be opened routinely. with corrugations having a pitch of 1. octagonal-type gaskets are usually less expensive. coppernickel alloys. monel.000 psi. the curved shape makes it more difficult to achieve accurate dimensioning and surface finishing.4 mm.000 to 15. Larger sizes and classes require 30. Oval gaskets also have the disadvantage that they can only be used once.6.2. · ASME B16. On the other hand.25 or 0. Corrugated metal gaskets can be manufactured to just about any shape and size required. However.000 psi to compress the gasket. copper. and pressures from vacuum to 350 bar. steel. Spiral Wound and Jacketed Static Equipment Group . a greater torque load is required to flow the gasket material into imperfections that may reside on the flange faces. diameter and up to class number 600 require a uniform bolt stress of 25. because they are constructed of only straight faces. and are easier to surface finish than the oval- type gasket. Oval-type gaskets contact the flange face at the curved surface and provide a highly reliable seal.

in time. · Flat-ring gaskets are widely used wherever service condition permits because of the ease with which they may be cut from flat sheet and installed. The axial flow is required to fill depressions in the flange facing and prevent leakage. A thick gasket will flow radially to a far greater extent than a thin gasket. However in attempting utmost utilization of thin gasket advantage. · The two types of gaskets most commonly known are ring gaskets and full face gaskets. one may Static Equipment Group . plastics. Some thin gaskets show practically no radial flow at extremely high unit pressures. due to the resulting reduced gasket pressure. ferrous and nickel-alloy metal gaskets may be used up to the maximum temperature rating of the flanges. Radial flow serves no useful purpose unless the gasket is confined. Paper. Ring gaskets extend to the inside of the flange bolt holes and consequently are self centering.. Consequently. They are usually used with raised face or lap joint flanges but may also be used with flat-faced flanges. The latter as the name implies. and soft iron. nickel. Asbestos- composition gaskets may be used up to 350° C or slightly higher. · Upon initial compression a gasket will flow both axially and radially. · BS 3381 Sprial Wound Gaskets to suit BS 1560 Flanges Selection of Gaskets: · The gasket material selected should be one which is not adversely affected physically or chemically by the service conditions. aluminum. monel. the flange bolts are usually re-tightened a second or third time after the joint is heated to the normal operating temperature. asbestos. The gaskets are usually made in thickness from 1/64 to 1/8 in. They are commonly fabricated from such materials as rubber. Page 216 of 390 · IS2712 Specification for compressed Asbestos fibre jointing. paper. They are intended for use with flat face flanges. Where a flange joint is heated. copper. To compensate for this.Facebook . This greater pressure coupled with the usual softening of the gasket material at elevated temperatures causes additional axial and radial gasket flow. a greater gasket pressure is produced due to the difference between the flange body and the bolts. for high temperatures a thin gasket has the advantage of maintaining a permanent thickness while a thick gasket will continue to flow radially and may leak. cloth. cloth and rubber gaskets are not recommended for use above 120° C. lead. covers the entire flange face and are pierced by the bolt holes.

The alloy-steel rings should be heat treated to soften them. Corrugated metal gaskets without asbestos may be used to higher temperature than those with asbestos filling. grafoil etc. Corrugated gaskets require less seating force than laminated or serrated gaskets and are extensively used in low-pressure liquid and gas service.Facebook . The spiral wound asbestos-metallic gasket combines the advantages of both the thick and thin gasket. monel. Although a relatively thick gasket (most common types are 0. · Serrated metal gaskets are fabricated of solid metal and have concentric grooves machined into the faces. soft steel. 4-6% chrome. the contact surface area increases. in the commercial flange faces. These rings are fabricated of solid metal. Static Equipment Group . · Corrugated gaskets with asbestos filling are similar to laminated gaskets except that the surface is rigid with concentric rings as with the case of serrated gaskets. When the ring joint or spiral wound gasket is selected. usually of asbestos. · Two standard types of ring-joint gaskets are available for high-pressure service. and stainless steels. This eliminates the radial flow characteristics of a thick gasket and provides the resiliency to adjust to vary service conditions. Spiral wound gaskets used with raised face flanges usually have an inner metal ring and an outer centering ring. usually soft iron. · Laminated gaskets are fabricated with a metal jacket and a soft filler. Smooth-finished flange faces should be used with serrated gaskets. and the other has an octagonal cross section. it is recommended that line flanges be of the welding neck type. As the gasket is deformed. to suit fluid compatibility. Serrated gaskets are useful where soft gaskets or laminated gaskets are unsatisfactory and bolt load is excessive with a flat-ring metal gasket. One type has an oval cross section. Page 217 of 390 find that gasket selected has insufficient thickness to seal the irregularities. This greatly reduces the contact area on initially tightening thereby reducing the bolt load.175" thick) its spirally laminated construction confines the asbestos filler between axially flexible metal layers. Spiral wound gaskets are available with different filler materials such as Teflon. · It is recommended that ring joint gasket be used for class 150 flanged joints. Such gaskets can be used up to temperatures of about 400° C to 450° C and require less bolt load to seat and keep tight than solid metal flat ring gaskets.

This flange pressure must be applied uniformly across the entire seating area to achieve perfect sealing. Different coefficients of expansion between the bolts. the joint deforms. the flanges and the pipe can result in forces which can affect the gasket. necessary to accomplish this is known as the "y" factor. as soon as pressure is applied to the vessel. An "m" or maintenance factor has been established by ASME to account for this preload. flexible joints lose bolt load. Page 218 of 390 Parameters affecting Gasket performance: The performance of the gasket is affected by a number of factors. This factor must be taken into account by the flange designer. To account for this. an additional preload must be placed on the gasket material. The effect of temperature on many fluids causes them to become more aggressive. These effects include bolt elongation. · The Internal Pressure: In service. The flange pressure. All of these factors must be taken into consideration when selecting a gasket: · The Flange Load: All gasket materials must have sufficient flange pressure to compress the gasket enough to insure that a tight. Therefore. the normal pressure and the test pressure should be taken into account. The relative stiffness of the bolted joint determines whether there is a net gain or loss in the bolt load. the distribution around the gasket is not uniform. or minimum seating stress. in actual service.Facebook . a fluid that can be sealed at Static Equipment Group . · Temperature: The effects of both ambient and process temperature on the gasket material. The higher he operating temperature. the initial gasket compression is reduced by the internal pressure acting against the gasket (blowout pressure) and the flanges (hydrostatic end force). · Fluid: The media being sealed. The greatest force is exerted on the area directly surrounding the bolts. However. the flanges and the bolts must be taken into account. Generally. The "m" factor defines how many times the residual load (original load minus the internal pressure) must exceed the internal pressure.. creep relaxation of the gasket material or thermal degradation. usually a liquid or a gas with a gas being harder to seal than a liquid. In this calculation. As the system is pressurized and heated. The lowest force occurs mid-way between two bolts. This can result in a reduction of the flange load. unbroken seal occurs. the more care needs to be taken with the asket material selection.

As a rule of thumb. A finish that is too fine or shallow is undesirable.Facebook . The gasket must be thick enough to occupy the shape of the flange faces and still compress under the bolt load. a finish that is too deep will yield a gasket that requires a higher bolt load. may adversely affect the gasket at a higher temperature. it is a general rule that a thinner gasket is able to handle a higher compressive stresses than thicker one. the gasket should be at least four times thicker than the maximum surface roughness of the flange faces. and thus less flange strength than a full-face gasket. Under no circumstances should the flange-sealing surface be machined with tool marks extending radially across the gasket-sealing surface. and is normally expressed as a percentage loss per unit of Static Equipment Group . Flange faces with non-slip grooves that are approximately 0. The gasket material must be resistant to corrosive attack from the fluid. which will allow extrusion to occur. · Surface Finish of the Gasket: The surface finish of a gasket . high-pressure gaskets tend to be narrow.which consists of grooves or channels pressed or machined onto the outer surface . it is advisable not to have the gasket wider than is necessary. On the other hand. For a given gasket stress. a raised face flange with a narrow gasket will require less pre-load. Fine machining marks applied to the flange face. In general. especially when large flange surfaces are involved.125 mm deep are recommended for gaskets more than 0. Page 219 of 390 ambient temperature. · Gasket Thickness: For a given material. thinner materials require a higher surface finish quality. because the smooth surface may lack the required grip. grooves 0. and for thinner gaskets. a thicker gasket than the minimum required should be employed. However. It should chemically resist the system fluid to prevent serious impairment of its physical properties.065 mm deep are recommended.governs the thickness and compressibility required by the gasket material to form a physical barrier in the clearance gap between the flanges. especially on hard gasket materials. · Stress Relaxation: This factor is a measure of the material's resiliency over a period of time.5 mm thick. such marks could allow leakage. · Gasket Width: In order to reduce the bolt load required to produce a particular gasket pressure. tangent to the direction of applied fluid pressure can also be helpful. In situations where vibration is unavoidable. which may make it difficult to form a tight seal.

After some initial relaxation. Page 220 of 390 time. Hemant Solanki Basic Instrumentation Symbol Static Equipment Group . Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 10:33am Kiran Gawade and Vijay Kumar like this. All gasket material will lose some resiliency over time. · Gasket Outer Diameter: For two gaskets made of the same material and having the same width. the one with a larger outer diameter will withstand a higher pressure. Therefore. due to the flow or thinning of the material caused by the applied pressure.Facebook . the residual stress should remain constant for the gasket. it is advisable to use a gasket with an external diameter that is as large as possible.

Facebook . Vijay Kumar and 4 others like this. Page 221 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 7:52pm via Facebook for Windows Phone Gajendrasingh Rajput. Kiran Gawade. Static Equipment Group .

as the flow through the tube or shell is based on the difference in density of the liquids between the vessel and the exchanger. the u-tube bundle is always submerged in liquid and the vapor generated is continuously sent to the column. no super-heating might be expected….. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 19 at 1:53pm via Email Nirav Desai In kettle type vaporizer. Process people view will be highly appreciated. Why ? Vaporizers: produce dry vapor for regenerators.Facebook . etc. It contains Large disengaging spaces and Special take-off nozzles to ensure dry vapour.August 26 at 8:53pm · Edited · Like Nirav Desai In thermosyphon type vaporizer. Kettles or thermosiphons do not superheat at all. Vaporizers allow a small amount of superheat. the liquid is filled to maximum heat transfer area……August 26 at 9:10pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Page 222 of 390 Hemant Solanki Kettles or thermosiphons do not superheat at all. As there is no heat transfer area available in vapor phase. WHY? Can anybody explain its reason.

. as opposed to integrally reinforced one piece nozzles to self-reinforced heavier-wall shell Static Equipment Group .linkedin...com/groupfollowing?follow&followee=50285510&csrf Token=ajax%3A8183627751280467705&goback=.Courtesy .com/groups?viewMemberFeed&gid=122787&me mberID=182154015&goback=. Rajeev Khantwal You..gde_122787_member_26 6520825&trk=ufp_l> Follow Lyn<http://www. Navin Kothari<http://www...linkedin.gde_122787_member_26 6520825&trk=fwp_l> Lyn Evans<http://www..Linkdin Group Dear All.gde_122787_member_266520825> like this 3 comments LynUnfollow <http://www. I went through a specification of ONGC in which it was written that Reinfocement Pads for Nozzle to Shell is not allowed when service is Lethal or under -16 deg C.where? Thanks & Regards..linkedin...Facebook .linkedin.I could't get the reason for this.com/groupfollowing?unfollow&followee=50285510&csrf Token=ajax%3A8183627751280467705&goback=.com/groups?viewMemberFeed&gid=122787&me mberID=50285510> * Obviously there is more potential for failures & hidden leaks when you have a welded configuration like a repad. Page 223 of 390 Hemant Solanki RF Pad in Lethal service RF Pad in Lethal service . Moreover is there any clause given in ASME SEC VIII 1 if yes .can anyone shed some light on this.

RF Pad welds when subjected to sub zero . C. If it is so specific in ONGC spec then it may not be prohibited in ASME VIII.Facebook . Contents i am not able to recollect. and if impact test requirement is not specified for RF plates . Off hand : I do not remember to give a straight answer whether any restriction is given as interpretation in ASME Sec VIII Div 1 by users for lethal service.Srinivasan Chakravarthi Srinivasan<http://www.subject to UG 40 (a) or when the RF Pad strength under tension -as defined in UG 37 . To my mind.is subject to NDT (Nil Ductility Transition) and may develop cracks in lethal service if left undetected. I remember ASME Sec VIII Div 1 an interpretation given under 78-10 R (13) on a specific question and answer reply by ASME board.linkedin.1.shall be better than UG-40 (d) (1). ASME board did not have put any restrictions specifically mentioning lethal service or for sub zero temperature conditions of operations. Vessel to nozzle or pad to nozzle attachment weld metal shall have a stress value equal to that of the vessel wall or pad respectively . Div. ONGC as user might have taken this factor into consideration in specifying that Nozzle RF Pad plate additions under sub zero and also under lethal service conditions without clarifying to vendor on why such specification was Static Equipment Group .during manufacture qualification or test stages of inspection not mentioned or agreed upon between purchaser and vendor .V.. Div.com/groups?viewMemberFeed&gid=122787& memberID=55912090> * Rajeev Aug 18 ASME Sec VIII Div 1 UG 41 & Fig UG 40 is applicable reference for reinforcement additions for pressure vessel opening/ nozzle openings. Page 224 of 390 sections or insert-plates.16 deg cent as given by ONGC spec.1 but sounds like wise design engineering. Have to revert on the ASME requirement as not at hand right now but I'm sure someone will clarify if it is mandatory case for ASME VIII.

Page 225 of 390 given. For your info: RF pad welds with full penetration welds as in Fig UG 40 if tested properly during construction stages and manufacturing third party inspection .there should not be restriction for use for such RF Pad welds in lethal and sub zero test temperature usage.both plate impact values at sub zero impact values and good penetration weld at both inside and outside properly tested well will have any problem in both lethal and sub zero temperature conditions. Lethal service or sub zero test temperature (Nil Ductility Transition temperature) is answered fully if that care is taken during manufacture and stage wise inspection of RF pad to nozzle to pad welds. Chakravarthi V Srinivasan India Aug 18 2013 Rajeev Khantwal<http://www... This does not mean a full penetration weld.. There is nothing that precludes use of material with full penetration welds for RF Pad addition properly tested by Non Destructive techniques selected for such testing of welds .as a purchase specification ..this as additional precaution for vendor to adopt during manufacturing. properly evaluated / tested during nozzle to RF pad additions...Facebook ... Static Equipment Group ..com/groups?viewMemberFeed&gid=122787& memberID=57179928> * Thanks Mr Srinivasan for such a good explanation on this topic. may be specifying ..and tested with modern UT Flaw detection techniques with impact value at sub zero temp test exceeding the values .as agreed upon between purchaser and vendor /third party inspection companies . ONGC spec...linkedin.

. *************************************************** Purpose:. up to 1200 diameter shall be eight and above 1200 diameter twelve. Hence it is very risky for providing RF pad in lethal service where if any process fluid escape to air . In RF pad construction there is more probability of process fluid to have contact with inside of RF pad & Hence indirectly there is a chance of process fluid to release in atmosphere. may lead to serious & harmul effect to property & human life . Page 226 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · August 26 at 6:19pm via Email Vijay Kumar likes this. It facilitates removal and handling of exchanger.. Also Note that on extended tubesheet slot for collar should be on channel side so that after channel flange removal tubesheet shall get remain in contact with shell side flange and gasket as still shell side flange nuts doesn't loosened yet….1 (f1 to f4).August 26 at 11:10pm · Like · 1 Tejas Shah What's the purpose of using of using collar bolt for heat exchanger ? I understand it hold the gasket in its condition .a) Collars bolts are used for removable bundle heat exchangers. we can do radiography easily due to its butt-welded construction between nozze to shell….August 19 at 10:12am · Edited · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam Refer below PIP Standard VEFV 1126 for the collar bolt arrangement.. Hence We have to perform 100 % radiography for this D category weld joint by providing lip type construction as per figure UW 16. b) It is Preferable in Bonnet type channel & removable tube c)In other cases its Client's special requirement to avoid gaskets replacement in every routine inspection /maintenance/Hydro test ***************************************************** The number of collar studs for exchanger diameters up to 600 diameter shall be four.Facebook . The collar studs shall be designed so that the bolted joint complie with all TEMA and 'Stoomwezen' (ASME) rules for pressure vessels requirements. Because for only channel side removal if we loosen non collar bolts than it is required to replace shell side gasket also even though there is no need to loose shell side. to holding the bundle in place. Tushar Mangrati As u know that RF pad is attached to a nozzle & shell by fillet weld & more over we are providing tell tale holes for pneumatic testing for removing weld gas etc. Static Equipment Group . if only the channel must be removed.August 4 at 2:42pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Most of the specs calls for some percentage of total number of bolts to be collar bolts. but not sure . In lip type construction . Like · · Unfollow Post · August 4 at 1:48pm via mobile Mitesh Rana Purpose is to facilitate the removal of the channel for inspection and maintenance without disturbing the tubesheet to shell gasket seating…. main purpose of providing collar bolts is to maintain bolt load at shell side flange while removing channel by loosening channel side flange.

Purav Desai its hard to fix the rule of thumb to fix the requirement of expansion joint for fixed tubesheet exchanger because it depends on material of shell and tube. I know only a exact analysis can given perfect result.35 deg C….. to avoid need of expansion joint…..August 31 at 9:38am · Like · 1 Jayesh Rathod i had this question from very beginning when i started doing heat exchangers in my early days. engineers following is the commonly used guidelines - Difference in mean metal temp of shell side & tube side - 1) CS material .. increasing adjacent shell/channel thickness etc. Page 227 of 390 August 31 at 2:55am · Edited · Like · 1 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran What is the thumb rule with respect to temperature difference between shell and tube in fixed tubesheet exchanger where no bellows are required.50 deg C 2) SS material .. At the END of U-tube bundles. very useful thumb rule…August 31 at 10:38am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @ jayesh what bout cs shell and ss tube any guess !.August 31 at 10:07am via mobile · Like · 4 Mrudang Mehta thanks Jayesh. A full diameter support plate is used.August 31 at 9:51pm · Like Hemant Solanki Support plate mostly provided if vibration problem is anticipated in exchanger. Also now a days ASME UHX has employed various methods increasing tubesheet thickness.based on feedback from various vendors. but asking only for a general thumb rule Like · · Follow Post · August 31 at 12:01am Manoj Nandwalkar likes this.Facebook . WHY ? Is vibration issue occurs in u tube bundle? Or any additional reason? Like · · Unfollow Post · August 31 at 7:33pm via Facebook for Windows Phone Static Equipment Group ...

Instead of Y bend support. It is not preferred to extrapolate the factors plotted on the graphs.. Any feedback.August 31 at 9:06am · Like · 1 Anish Dani Compress has inbuilt facility (added on by FE Nozzle) which can do the FEA of Nozzles while designing the pressure vessel…. For large diameter exchangers..September 1 at 7:55am · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta Just to add. chances are there for U bend vibration…. not only vibration at U bend results in addition of U bend support plate..August 31 at 10:48am · Like Static Equipment Group . sometimes we have to provide support plate within U bend. In my current project. But that is due to vibration at u bends……September 1 at 10:34am via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Equipment with large openings. Purav Desai Hi Hemant. @ Purav Like · · Follow Post · August 31 at 12:05am Purav Desai Hi Mahadevan Venkiteswaran. Hope it helps. Page 228 of 390 Prafful Chaudhary likes this. As per my knowledge we only used FEA to analyze large opening when it falls outside range of analytical methods like WRC/PD 5500. if unsupported span exceeds the allowable then we need to provide support plate. My feel the material savings should be minimal or nominal but high analysis cost.. September 1 at 7:53am · Like · 1 Purav Desai In most cases. Hence for such cases FEA is preferred. U bend is not considered as a part of heat transfer and so nozzle is located before U bend which results in less vibration and flow at U bend.August 31 at 9:05am · Edited · Like Purav Desai Also due to this now many consultancies / design companies are developing FEA capability so that they can use their skilled manpower to do such analysis on FEA….Facebook . Any advantage of designing the nozzle to shell junction for nozzle loads with FEA with respect to analytical methods like WRC or BSS 5500 appendix G. However when nozzle is located after U bend. 3 nos of strip type support are provided. it may give wrong results. Initial savings in capital cost can sometimes leads to very very high repair cost….

Jayesh Rathod i thnk saddle supports are always better for better load distribution. Waste Heat Boiler-Water tube type. I guess FEA is not the solution to begin with…. It is supported on 3 saddles. I believe each saddle shall be designed for atleast half the load of the operating weight instead of 1/3rd ? 2) Does anyone has good reference material on Water tube type boiler ? Like · · Follow Post · August 31 at 10:18am near Bukit Merah Estate.lug supports would induce local stresses on the shell at 4 points…. Singapore Manish Shukla Ans to 1) For multiple saddle supports. Currently I am handling a Waste Gas Treatment Pkg comprising of Incinerator Unit .September 1 at 12:51pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran A buried horizontal vessel back filled with soil. use continuous beam solution via moment distribution method…. Also note that since it is coming under large opening category you may asked to get a FEA report for third party approval…. I understand it gives better resistance to uplift. Blowers.August 31 at 9:31am · Edited · Like Static Equipment Group . FEA will give the right solution for this pbm.For multi saddle analysis Ad Markblat (not the right spelling-it is a German standard) S3/2 is one standard which addresses it….. Page 229 of 390 Senthil Anbazhagan Hi Mahadevan Venkiteswaran .August 31 at 10:47pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Jayesh . Also when equipment is buried.September 1 at 12:48pm · Like Jayesh Rathod Hello.Facebook . 1) Incinerator is a horizontal unit & refractory lined.August 31 at 9:17am via mobile · Like Purav Desai I have not designed buried vessels but always seen it supported on Lugs and with Concrete piers extended to support shell bottom half (similar to saddle). Saddle or lugs mounted on its periphery which mounts on concrete piers Like · · Follow Post · August 31 at 12:02am Purav Desai likes this. there will be a huge load of sand and vessel weight coming on supports and in such condition. Going with WRC or BSS may not give solution. What is the best type of support.. Stack.August 31 at 11:33am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Ya agreed FEA not first but second option…August 31 at 1:49pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Ok so to conclude when this exceeds the geometry condition of WRC then FEA is the only solution. Burner Mgt System. I believe concrete foundation is better than saddle supports….

saddles are most common. It is same as UHX in Div.workers have to dig more.. so that the vessel will bear uniformly..Facebook .. as suggested may be provided...1 ? As per reply from Coadae .2.well that was a good point...2 covers tubesheet calculation.1 with allowable stresses as per Div. only allowable stresses of Div.September 2 at 12:05am via mobile · Like Ajit Managoli From my exp.. saddles are most common.however i have seen many burried bullets on saddles…August 31 at 9:36am via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Jayesh bhai! There is also a operation issue... jus a thought. it is identical to Part UHX in Div.. If the vessel is backfilled with soil opening the lift for any maintenance issue is a issue with saddle…August 31 at 10:26am · Like Jayesh Rathod yes thats true.August 31 at 10:31am via mobile · Like Ajit Managoli Drom my exp. No welding and all jus for resting the bullet…September 2 at 7:30am via mobile · Like Ajit Managoli It is possible. Lugs.. Perhaps foundation design will be better with saddles…. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 4 at 4:41pm via Email Hemant Solanki Paragraph 4. Can we go for concrete saddle. Please discuss.2 ? Is method same as UHX in Div..September 4 at 7:51am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Tubesheet Calculation as per Div.2 Is anybody has studied tubesheet calculation in Div.. Page 230 of 390 Jayesh Rathod if concrete pier is shaped to support shell bottom then it's better.a few seconds ago · Edited · Like Static Equipment Group ... Lugs. Perhaps there are other difficulties as well…. Pvelite doing the same….. as suggested may be provided…September 2 at 12:06am via mobile · Like · 1 Vinod Puransingh Khati Hello everyone.18 in Div.2 is used.1.would be of use to me if i come across buried vessels in future. Only it is quite difficult to cast the concrete to correct shape.

Certainly the requirement can be followed as good engg practice. I didn't noticed any significant reason in that exchanger to provide such an arrangement.. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 5 at 3:29pm via Email Karthikeyan Sivakumar likes this.. Meaning tie-rod won‟t go under tension. Please share your views. baffles and spacers won‟t be hanging on tie-rods. Does anybody came across case where this tie rods tapping provided on floating end tubesheet instead of stationary tubesheet ? Is any specific reason to provide such arrangement ? I saw one case where for vertical floating head exchanger (P type) tie rods tapping is provided on floating end tubesheet instead of stationary tubesheet. Rohitash Panwar I think u mis read the req. So even if tierods are tapped on stationary tubesheet it is not going to affect much as we use solid tie rods. We either tap tie rods to stationary tubesheet of floating tubesheet. However its also to be noted that baffles and spacer pipes doesnot contribute significant weight.. Moreover we always tack weld nuts at the end of tie rod which will serve as a lock. Rohitash Singh Panwar Tie rod should be screwd to stationary tubesheet and last baffle or support plate only because if the tie rod is screwed to fliating tubeshhet then it restrict the movement of floating tubesheet and the purpose of selection of floating head will not serve.as per my understanding tie rod dhould not be scrwed to floating tubesheet……September 5 at 4:03pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai The reason mentioned by sachin pawar seems adequate.September 5 at 4:28pm via mobile · Like · 1 Purav Desai Reason by sachin pawar " The only reason I see is with this arrangement..Facebook ."….September 5 at 4:34pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . Tubes always remains free to expand…. Page 231 of 390 Hemant Solanki Tie rods tapping on tubesheet The tie rods are circular metal rods screwed into the stationary tubesheet and extending the length of the bundle up to the last baffle.

seal rods are fixed at stationary tubesheet and tierods are at floating it also no meaning for the allowing expansion of tubes……September 6 at 3:34am · Edited · Like Static Equipment Group . If sealing .sealing strips . so tie rods can never restrict tubes expansion as whole.(In Vertical Fixed tubesheet type tierods generally fixed at top side tube sheet) **************************** But In case of Floating head type hex. while tubes are connected at both end of tubesheet. Now consider vertical exchanger with floating tubesheet at top. also stationary end (here in this case bottom tubesheet) will provide rigid support to tie rods as compared to other end.sliding strips. here if i give tapping at top end tubesheet then tie rod assembly will get hanged up from top.Facebook .sliding strips.g.sealing strips sliding strips also fixed same as tie rods So as per my understanding tie rods . in practice it will not matter much by providing tapping at stationary end……September 5 at 9:26pm · Like Hemant Nikam First my question what about the sliding . VCFE then we can think on this issue but still as per me it will be only prediction.it will be more effective when the sealing rods. if Tie rods are fixed at floating tubesheet . as per me it is better to keep tie rods in compression by providing tapping at bottom tubesheet. Because tie rods are connected to tubesheet and get terminated at last baffle or support plate.seal rods are available if yes where it to be fixed ? ************************************** Tie rods are always to be fixed at only one Tubesheet it may stationary or Floating. If there is very big size vertical exchanger e. so even there is any compressive loads will be there that will also not be a much problem. and it is also not clear that whether exactly such loadings transffered on tie rod assembly or not.always be fixed with stationary tubesheet in both horizontal as well as vertical type to avoid the damage of tubes at stationary tubesheet during removal of bundle from shell.During removal of tube bundle whole load of floating tubesheet and tubes upto the first baffle (Stationary side) will be fall on the peripheral tubes near the inner face of stationary tubesheet (If bundle will lifted improper horizontal plane at stationary end) and peripheral tubes may pinched during removal of bundle.sealrods.sealing strips. and there is chance that tie rods will remain in tension. Page 232 of 390 Hemant Solanki Tie rod mounting will never restrict expansion and contraction of tube bundle assembly.

please explain concept and methodology. And for excessive nozzle loads we can design nozzle reinforcement to absorb it….Concept is called equivalent pressure method. Page 233 of 390 Mrudang Mehta Hello friends. client is asking to check the design of girth flange bolting considering the transfer of channel nozzle loads and its induced moment due to the nozzle loads. Method is given in Moss. I hv not done. the channel shell is quite stiff. the same will be transferred to girth flange bolting. will not remain "local". What is explained by them is if there are very high nozzle loads on Tubeside. Wilayah Persekutuan. The radial force & moments on the nozzles are to be transferred on to girth flg. Personally. If yes. 2.Facebook . In my current project.? Like · · Follow Post · September 4 at 3:41am near Seputeh. Since the length of the channel is quite small.September 4 at 7:43am via mobile · Like Mitul Patel 1. I understand the channel inlet and outlet nozzle loads will balance each other so such loads are not transferred to girth flange.. There is input in pvelite girth flange module for axial load and moment. This design client donot want to check with nearest shell nozzle loads. No. My queries are: 1. Purav Desai 1. in such case. Static Equipment Group . Is my understanding correct. Has anybody carried out such type if design. 2. I have a query related to Shell and Tube heat exchanger design. Yes.September 4 at 4:42am via mobile · Like Ajit Managoli 1. See Appendix of WRC107 for some discussion reg effect of length of the shell on local loads….. & due to the presence of girth flg welded to its edge. The effect of loads. Malaysia Purav Desai and Pankaj Singla like this. What it does is to convert local load and moment into equivalent pressure and this pressure is added in design pressure. 2.

for this case the longitudinal load acting on the nozzle will be directly transferred as Force on the hub of the girth flange.the axial load on nozzle will be directly transferred as force on the hub. To me it is perfect time to refer all such issue to FEA expert rather than continuing with age old good engineering practices which may be calling for unnecessary over design….September 8 at 10:20am · Like Mrudang Mehta Mahadevan Venkiteswaran . It is not necessary that Nozzles are located 180° apart would nullify nozzle loads of each other.September 4 at 7:15pm · Like Mrudang Mehta @ Sunil Sharma . Hope this helps…September 8 at 10:47am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Mrudang. The moment on the hub will be resultant of the moment arising from the ML and Mc acting at the junction of the nozzle at a distance "x" from the girth flange hub….September 4 at 8:08am via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar In one of our project. vendor is asking for change order.Facebook . I understand for vertical exchangers it makes sense…. The problem is as this is not mentioned in Client Specification and even code doesnot cover this requrement.client has commented to appky the nozzle load in girth flange design for vertical reboiler.. The moment on the hub will be the resultant of the moment arising from ML and MC of the nozzle loads acting at a distance "x" from the hub of the flange.Its typically done for vertical reboilers where in axial load can separate flange joint.We had asked the same query to the the client personnel who had raised this issue.September 4 at 7:21pm · Like Avedhesh Gupta Before concluding on the second query raised by Mrudung.Ajit and Purav. kindly check the actual nozzle loads if possible.September 4 at 6:51pm · Like Mrudang Mehta Thanks Sunil.Rohitash. This was something very new for me and your response helped to understand the design requirements…. the shell side nozzle loads are transferred to the saddle but for channel nozzle loads.How do we transfer the axial load of nozzle on the hub ? Do we have to make the pressure equivalent of the force and add to design pressure on tubeside…. have you thought of the following: Say a U tube exchanger or a multipass exchanger where the inlet and outlet are on the opposite sides of the channel.. Radial nozzle for cylindrical shell .. In this Static Equipment Group . The better way would be to evaluate thru FEA..September 4 at 8:15pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I guess I also work for a project for the same client.client is SHELL and we had perform the analysis as per Deniss R Moss…September 4 at 5:06pm via mobile · Like Sunil Sharma There will be two cases for such requirements..Mitul. What was explained was that if there are heavy nozzle loads. 2. (2) Axial nozzle .. they get transferred to channel shell and than to girth flange. (1).September 5 at 10:58pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Can any one tell why this transfer of loads to channel flange is required for a horizontal exchanger.for axial nozzle on dished heads . In case of nozzle both sides I think effect will be null…. Waiting for a wonderful solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Page 234 of 390 Piping group also does such analysis for some special flanges which need special consideration due to higher local loads.

only allowable stresses of Div. Process people views will be more appreciated if they throw more light on process parameter and its application on exchanger.Facebook . it is identical to Part UHX in Div.1 with allowable stresses as per Div.September 10 at 2:42am via mobile · Like Madhusudhan Shetty After understanding the above query. That is exactly what we had understanding and so put the same query as point 2. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 4 at 4:41pm via Email Hemant Solanki Paragraph 4. I understand point 2 in my question was not very clear….September 10 at 11:42pm · Like · 1 Kewal Kareliya pls ask client weather they hads any past problem faced realted to nozzle load getting trasnfer to girth flg. its application and significance.All the HX in my current project are either BEU or BFU type..2 ? Is method same as UHX in Div.becos based on that only client must have put ds cluase in his specification I have not read yr reply deeply just had glance n ds question arised in my mind so posting. Page 235 of 390 case actually the forces get nullified if both the nozzle sizes are same.2 Please discuss. what i feel is even though nozzles (in/out) are placed on two extreme ends.2 Is anybody has studied tubesheet calculation in Div. So in such a case no load transferred to the channel flange..2 covers tubesheet calculation. Try that and if it worked give a feed back…September 9 at 9:38pm · Like Mrudang Mehta Mahadevan . hence there tends to be gap generated between the flanges and gasket sealing is lost and subsequently chances of leak from the girth flange joints….1 ? As per reply from Coadae .2 is used. Pvelite doing the same…September 13 at 8:44pm · Edited · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Discuss 10/13 Rule applicable in heat exchanger.1.. It is same as UHX in Div. effects of nozzle loads needs to be considered at the girth flg joint since there will be a torsional / rotational effect on the channel girth flange while the shell girth flange remaining static.18 in Div.September 11 at 8:52pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Tubesheet Calculation as per Div. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 16 at 8:20pm Static Equipment Group .

However for high pressure heat exchangers. If the equipment design pressure is 15 barg. if the design pressure of the low-pressure side (LPS) is at least 10/13 of the design pressure of the high pressure side (HPS). Like after HTRI how does one arrive at one inlet or two outlet or how they reach the no. API RP 521 (1997 edition) stated that if the design pressure of the lowpressure side (LPS) is at least 2/3 of the design pressure of the high pressure side (HPS).5 = 10/13. Page 236 of 390 Purav Desai 10/13 rule is followed for most heat exchangers as per API 521.September 15 at 7:35pm via mobile · Like Patel Sajit 10/13 rule or 2/3 rule is applied to avoid Tube Rupture & when PSV is not provided in heat exchanges.September 16 at 8:49pm · Edited · Like · 3 Patel Sajit Ten-thirteen (10/13) rule : In latest ASME.5 = 2/3. then the test pressure shall be 19. tube rupture is not considered a credible relieving scenario…. Same is taken care by Process…. High pressure exchanger specially used as bfw preheaters in syngas circuit of hydrogen plants has been evaluated for such options…. If the equipment design pressure is 15 barg.September 15 at 8:56pm · Like · 3 Patel Sajit But saudi aramco standard ask to satisfy both 2/3 rule & 10/13 rule….5 barg. it stated that the test pressure of equipment to be 130% of the design pressure.. thus 15/22.September 15 at 8:54pm · Like · 3 Patel Sajit Two-third (2/3) rule : Earlier revision of ASME required that equipment and piping be tested at 150% of stated design pressure.September 15 at 8:57pm · Edited · Like · 2 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Can some one share (if possible) the steps or excel sheet used to size the nozzle size for shell and tube heat exchanger. tube rupture is not considered a credible relieving scenario…. thus 15/19.5 barg. a comparison study shall be done between providing a PRV at low pressure side or increasing low pressure side pressure as per 10/13 rule. Similarly follow API RP 521 (1997 edition) statement. then the test pressure must be 22. etc which both standards still call for equipment test pressure to be 150% of equipment design pressure with stress correction. of outlet nozzles in a BKU type!!!!!! Like · · Follow Post · September 11 at 7:40pm Static Equipment Group . then two-third (2/3) rule still applied…. GB (China).September 16 at 8:49pm · Edited · Like · 3 Patel Sajit But if the vessel is designed to AS (Australia).Facebook .

X etc. Adding another query.e.com/photo.September 11 at 8:10pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai I dont have any spread sheet. What is so critical and what precautions to take.Facebook .. For kettle exchanger shell side outlet nozzles are determined considering qty of generate vapour.September 15 at 8:54am · Like · 1 · Remove Preview Static Equipment Group ..facebook.September 11 at 8:09pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya ya pls if any one can share anything related. J. https://www. Photos from Purav Desai's post in Static Equipment Group Welded in lobgitudinal baffle. Size of nozzle will be determined considering rho-v2 values and pressure drop limitations. Sometimes where there is two phase flow for example vacu condensers additional drain is considered. Further for AES type there is a support plate at the end near the floating head. For exchangers other than kettle type no of nozzles on shell side ivs governed by type of shell used I. By: Purav Desai….. E. However can share my understanding for this post. Also sonetimes wheb shell length is large multiple nozzles are considered instead of single large size nozzle…. What is the purpose of the opening in the support plate…September 14 at 11:39pm · Like Purav Desai For Welded F type exchanger. we already discussed here. Page 237 of 390 Kewal Kareliya ya pls if any one can share anything related. thanks I got the message. What if the exchanger is a welded F shell. What is the percent opening to be maintained in that support plate. Refer below post...php.September 12 at 3:26pm via mobile · Like · 1 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @ Purav..

General guideline is opening shall be provided so that atleast 50% of the tubes are supported by support plate…. Your sketch makes it simple and clear…September 15 at 11:09pm · Like Nirav Desai If I have length and diameter constraint and I want to increase area of the shell and tube exchanger..September 18 at 8:55pm · Edited · Like Nirav Desai if i dont consider TEMA . With smaller tubes and minimum tube pitch.25 times tube OD.Facebook .facebook.September 18 at 8:42pm via mobile · Like · 3 Nirav Desai Well i have considered reduction of tube diameter but it is not possible because i have fouling material in both tube n shell side .S. is it possible. it is required to maintain flow of shell side fluid at the back side of support plate. to back me up…. which restricts me…. A qualified vendor can able to produce welded tube to tubesheet joint with this pitch.September 18 at 10:16pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group .September 18 at 8:47pm · Like Ranaprio Sarkar UHX may solve your problem….September 15 at 9:16am · Edited · Like · Remove Preview Purav Desai For support plate opening to be provided in "S" type floating head. It gives clarity. As per tema minimun tube pitch shall be 1. As per TEMA we can either provide partial or Full support plate... So if length and diameter are constraints then you can select minimum tube diameter suitable to tube side fluid. Like · · Follow Post · September 18 at 6:51pm Purav Desai Hi Nirav.. more no of tubes can be accommodated….com/.September 15 at 9:19am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Purav thanks for the sketch. how much i could reduce my tube pitch for introducing more tubes?? P.See More…….https://www.. Page 238 of 390 Purav Desai Also refer below post for welded F type exchangers. Because whenever I hear about welded F shell there is a lot of correspondence being transacted. But i need calculations for that. I would like to know fabrication sequence of NFU type exchanger./permalink/553550708012958/ Static Equipment Group Dear Friends. I have welded tube to tube sheet joint. .

Page 239 of 390 Rohitash Singh Panwar If mechanical cleaning is required then minimum 6.3 hours ago · Like Static Equipment Group . it should be fine.tube size.. if fabricator can perform tube to tubesheet joint welding with narrow gap meeting all requirements for the welded joint. Additionally regular back flushing shall also be done. If no option change the exchanger type….. However for fouling service on tubeside certain minimum velocity has to be maintained to avoid fouling of small bore tubes.4 mm to be maintain between the tubes. kindly check your Project specification for the minimum tube dia.September 18 at 11:07pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai As I mentioned earlier.Facebook . This will sure help to mitigate fouling…Yesterday at 4:45am via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam If you are going to increase no of tubes by selecting lower dai . condition.

STATIC EQUIPMENT GROUP .MATERIAL POSTS .

A pure copper tube is normally limited to less than 8 FPS. stainless steel. which would result in the complete rupture or collapse of the tubing of a heat exchanger. If the fluid contains suspended solids or for example. typically erosion in this area is a result of impingement of wet. steam or water hammer. or baffling the inlet nozzle. Therefore. softwater. Likewise. It is this high velocity and turbulence that produces a “horseshoe” erosion pattern at the tube entrance. Pressure surges can be a result of an interruption in cooling water flow. exposing the underlying metal to further attack without a protective coating. and temperature. wet gas impingement is controlled by designing an oversized nozzle inlet nozzles. high-velocity gases. as well as copper-nickel typically withstand much higher tube velocities than standard copper alone. A modulating control valve is a preferable option to “on-off” types. tube entrance areas often experience severe metal loss when a high-velocity fluid divides among the smaller tubes upon entering the heat exchanger. fluid involved. other materials can handle upwards of 10 or 11 FPS. Tube Damage From Steam Hammer. surges or shock waves as a result of a sudden and rapid acceleration or deceleration of any liquid can cause damaging steam or water hammer to the exchanger. the erosion is accelerated. Steam or Water Hammer: Pressure spikes. turbulence results with a very high localized velocity. stagnant water heated with a resulting generation of steam. or a resumption of flow producing steam. Metal Erosion in a U-bend tube section. Control valves that open or close suddenly to control fluid flow can produce water hammer. along the U bend and near the tube entrances. x 20 BWG tubing typically has a rated burst pressure of 2100 psi.Facebook . A vacuum Static Equipment Group . The maximum recommended tube and entrance velocity is a function of many variables. Figure A. Pressure surges have been seen in levels in excess of 20. Less typical is erosion problems on the shell side of the tubes. As an example. Figure B. All these processes would likely cause a pressure surge. Page 240 of 390 Hemant Solanki Heat Exchanger: Corrosion & Failure Metal Erosion: Fluid velocity in excess of the manufacturer recommendation on either the shell or tube side of the heat exchanger will likely cause erosion damage as metal wears from the tubing surfaces. including steam. To mitigate this. When a single stream divides into smaller streams. A metal erosion problem most often occurs inside the tubes. the flow of the cooling fluid should always start prior to adding the heat load.000 psi. the velocity should be less than 7 ½ FPS. along with a collapse pressure of 600 psi. If any corrosion is already present on the exchanger. Materials including steel. drawn copper 3/4 in. Figure (A) is an example of metal loss in a section of U bend caused by extremely high-temperature water flashing over to steam. including the material of the tube.

the cool down or condensing of residual steam on the shell side after the steam control valve closes will continue to heat water or other such fluids on the tube side. and component strength.most commonly runs in radials around the tube. Thermal expansion failure of cast iron exchanger head.Facebook . Temperature differences caused tube flexing. which subsequently produced a stress load that. Figure (B) is an example of typical tube damage caused by steam hammer. can fail as a result of fatigue from accumulated stresses related to constant thermal cycling. Cast heads made from iron will fail due to lack of ductility. steel tube sheets will bow or become distorted permanently because the material yield point is exceeded. Vibration: Excess „environmental‟ vibration from equipment including air compressors. producing a high pressure shock wave that subsquantly collapsed the tubes and caused multiple tear holes. Figure (E) is an example of thermal expansion and failure of a cast iron head. In the example provided. eventually leading to -----s and splits. Thermal Expansion: Thermal expansion failures are commonly found in exchangers involving exchangers. Vacuum breakers prevent steam hammer from developing and causing damage as a result of condensate accumulation. Figure D is an example of typical thermal fatigue. condensate accumulated in the shell rapidly. Velocity-induced vibrations may also cause fatigue failures by hardening the tubes at the contact points between baffles or in U-Bend segments. often causing baffle supports to cut into the tubes (Figure C). Velocity-induced vibration along a tube. Figure E. creating pressure well in excess of the tube. This problem is significantly aggravated as the temperature difference across the U-bends increase. Thermal Fatigue Failure in U-bend segment. Ideally. Figure C. The resulting ----. Figure D. predominantly in the U-bend sections. A resulting heat load with nowhere to go will cause thermal expansion. Fluid velocities that exceed 4 FPS could cause vibration induced damage in the tubes. they may occur in most any process in which a fluid being heated is turned off without a provision for absorbing the subsequent thermal expansion. heat exchangers should be isolated from all forms of vibration. Thermal Fatigue: Tubes. refrigeration machines or other motors can cause tube failures that form as a result of fatigue stress --- --s and or erosion where the tubes make contact with the baffles. In systems that involve steam heating. however. and may result in a complete failure. Page 241 of 390 breaker vents are a must if the process involves a fluid that can or may condense on either the shell or tube side. until the materials tensile strength was exceeded and therefore -----ed. tube sheet. cast head. Correctly sized steam traps with installed return lines pitched to a receiving container for condensate or a condensate return pump should be installed as to prevent such damage. Static Equipment Group .

let‟s assume a chiller has been improperly set or its controls are malfunctioning allowing water to cool below the freezing point. Only stress values are differ. however they can occur in any process where a temperature drop below the freezing point of a given fluid exists. As ice crystals form. Figure (F) is an evaporator.. improper drainage during a seasonal shutdown. Freeze-up: A freeze failure is most commonly found in condensers or evaporators. Cl. Freeze-up failures in a condenser application may also occur when cooling water is circulating inside the tubes and refrigerant on the finned surfaces was not aquatically drained for winter shutdown. Figure F. with a tube near the tube sheet where it was inadequately protected.Class 1 availability in market is also less…. It may be vice versa…. 2011 at 8:04pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .July 30.1. Read more: http://www. 2011 at 6:12pm via mobile Vijay Chaudhary likes this.egpet. they exert tremendous pressure in the tubing. The boiling process then extracts heat from the water in the tubes causing a freeze up.. Hemant Solanki Chemical composition is same.July 29. 2011 at 8:18am · Like Purav Desai Dear members. Class 1 is costlier than class 2. malfunction of a thermal protection system or heater. Page 242 of 390 Relief valves are often installed in the fluid being heated to prevent a failure of this sort. As an example. C. I have a doubt regarding low alloy steel material what is the difference between SA 387 GR 11 CL 1 & CL 2? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 29. Refrigerant pressure from the condenser is suddenly released as a result of a line break or relief valve discharge dropping the pressure below the refrigerant boiling point. Manufactures commonly install and or advise for a means to absorb fluid expansion. Almost all Specification recommend to use class 1 above 450 deg. Callapse of evaporator tube.net/vb/content/518-Heat-Exchanger-Corrosion- Failure#ixzz2jOyGa500 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 28. Typical freeze-ups are a result of the operator failing to provide thermal protection from the elements.Facebook .2 material have stresses lower than Cl. 2011 at 8:28pm  Manish Shukla Good Info. causing it to rupture and or collapse. 2011 at 7:59pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai sunil told me that there is difference in heat treatment carried out in mill for both the class and that is why yield and tensile strength values varies…July 30. 2011 at 7:41pm · Like Purav Desai class 2 have higher stress values than class 1. Please check in Sec-IID.July 30. or inadequate antifreeze solutions.

But it is always better to ask vendor if temperature is more than 450 degree centigrade whether he is ok with cl. However. The property of the gasket and correct compression/tightness allows the process system to maintains it pressure and would not allow oil or gas to leak. Usually. It maintains the energy. The above photo is a very interesting one. felt. one article i have read on this. rubber. "Any of a wide variety of seals or packings used between matched machine parts or around pipe joints to prevent the escape of a gas or fluid" (Staffgasket. generally to prevent leakage between the two objects while under compression. fiberglass. It is a very interesting and carefully manufactured gasket made of stainless steel. It is also directly related to the process temperature. 2011 at 8:06pm · Like Hemant Solanki what is a gasket? According to Wikipedia. type of medium (fluid or gas) and the chemical properties of the medium. It shows the condition of gasket after being used for some time.July 30. pressure. We install/fix the correct type of gasket before connecting the pipeline with flanges. either air-tight or water-tight" (PartSelect. temperature and pressure in a process system.com). with class 1 thickness will be increased due to lower stress.com). It is difficult to remove the gasket by bare hands because the gasket sticks very well. or a plastic polymer (such as polychlorotrifluoroethylene).1 material due availability & cost impact…. let me just explain about the simple/normal gasket. With reference to the left illustration. or a plastic polymer. Gasket is very important in a process plant. The above illustration shows how a gasket is positioned and locked between those 4 bolts. felt. I shall elaborate more about this in another post because it is deserve its own post! OK. the gasket is sandwiched between flanges. rubber. including any slight irregularities. silicone. metal.Facebook . silicone. such as gasket paper. Page 243 of 390 Hemant Solanki check with LTC material group. Another illustration shows how a gasket is positioned and locked between those 8 bolts. Gaskets for specific applications may contain asbestos. It is usually desirable that the gasket be made from a material that is to some degree compressible such that it tightly fills the space it is designed for. Gaskets are commonly produced by cutting from sheet materials. Other definitions/descriptions of gasket: "A flexible material used to seal components together. Gaskets are commonly produced by cutting from sheet materials. fiberglass. such as gasket paper. We need to use suitable tools to peel and remove the gasket from the flanges. cork. flanges like Static Equipment Group . Gaskets save money by allowing less precise mating surfaces on machine parts which can use a gasket to fill irregularities. Selecting a suitable gasket is a must because it does cost money. metal. Another new knowledge that I learned is about spiral wound gasket that can withstand pressure up to 70-80 bar. a gasket is a mechanical seal that fills the space between two objects.

These include loss of ductility on slow application of strain (hydrogen embrittlement). As the concentration of atomic hydrogen builds up at the surface it diffuses into the steel and reduces its ductility this embrittling effect is caused by hydrogen atoms collecting between metal atoms. Gasket is not only used between flanges. Hydrogen embrittlement is temporary and can be reversed by heating the steel to drive out the hydrogen. Water washing reduces the concentration of cyanides. In a plant. Corrosion Inhibitors help control aqueous sulfide corrosion and hydrogen blistering even though Static Equipment Group . Hydrogen blistering often accompanies hydrogen embrittlement as a result of aqueous sulfide corrosion. Page 244 of 390 this is opened during shutdown to clean/clear pipelines or vessels. The basic approach toward reducing corrosion and hydrogen blistering in the various vapor-compression stages of catalytic Cracking units should be aimed at decreasing the concentration of cyanide and bisulfide ions in water condensate. a new fresh gasket will be used. It is widely used everywhere in a process plant and in our kitchen (the refrigerator). probably because ammonia. Without a gasket.Facebook . As rule. gasket can be found in the heat exchanger. Several methods for accomplishing this have been used : 1. in conjunction with corrosion inhibitor injection. 1-Hydrogen embrittlement: is characterized by decreasing ductility with decreasing strain rate. Failure in the form of Cracking usually occurs some time after a load is applied to hydrogen-charged steel. Atomic hydrogen (H) forms as part of the corrosion process and then evolves from cathodic areas of the metal as molecular hydrogen (H2). Because this phenomenon is also known as static fatigue. and spontaneous Cracking of high-strength or high-hardness steels (hydrogen stress crac*king). For example. and hydrogen cyanide concentrate in the thin water films or in water droplets that collect at these areas.ets in the plant. Lesser degree in the low-temperature areas of the reactor section of hydrotreating and hydraCracking units. a 12" butterfly valve like this will leak and spill oil or water and spray gas or steam (depending on your application). to. the minimum load for failure to occur is known as the static fatigue limit. valves. 2. Never use a gasket twice. formation of blisters or internal voids (hydrogen blistering). the ductility of carbon steel has been reported to drop from 42 to 7% when charged with hydrogen.Conversion of cyanide to harmless thiocyanate (SCN) by injection of air or poly-sulfide. the severity of hydrogen blistering depends on the severity of corrosion. Vapor/liquid interface areas in equipment often show most of the damage. Hemant Solanki Hydrogen Damage Corrosion of carbon and low-alloy steels by aqueous hydrogen sulfide solution or sour waters can result in one or more types of hydrogen damage. vessel man holes etc. The gasket needs to be properly maintained to ensure no upsets in the plant. hydrogen sulfide. 2-Hydrogen blistering: has been a problem primarily in the vapor recovery (Light ends) section of catalytic Cracking units and. After inspection.Water washing of the compressed wet gas streams.

can anybody tell me that for 350 bar design pressure can i use ALloy 625 spiral wound gasket. Cracking is typically transgranular and will contain sulfide corrosion products. hydrogen stress Cracking of steel in refineries and petrochemical plants often requires the presence of cyanides. Page 245 of 390 cyanides may still be present.Where limited hydrogen blistering occurs in certain components of hydrotreating and hydro Cracking units.egpet. Hydrogen stress Cracking occurs in the same corrosive environments that lead to hydrogen embrittlementandas is in the case of hydrogen embrittlement and hydrogen blistering.The most effective way of preventing hydrogen stress Cracking is to ensure that the steel is in the proper metallurgical condition also postweld heat treatment of fabricated equipment will greatly reduce the occurrence of hydrogen stress crac*king. 3. As per me it should be grooved metal gasket. high-temperature hydrogen attack refers Read more: http://www.net/vb/threads/48868-Corrosion-in-Petroleum-Refining- and-Petrochemical-Operations#ixzz1VxTfxZKI Hemant Solanki Gasket selection chart Chetan Patel Dear all. Please Static Equipment Group . Hydrogen Attack The term hydrogen Attack or in more specifically. Cracking of this type has become known as hydrogen stress Cracking or sulfide cracking. it is usually sufficient to Line affected areas with stainless steel or alloy 440 (N04400).Facebook . Whatsyouropinin. 3-Hydrogen Stress Cracking: Sour water containing hydrogen sulfide can cause spontaneous Cracking of highly stressed high-strength steel components or in carbon steel components containing hard welds.

Now Camprofile or "Grooved" gaskets have proven themselves in all industrial applications. PTFE (Teflon).November 12.Facebook . RTJ is the most suitable and economically viable option..especially at high seating loads. imoci had selected based on service . Camprofile's can be used without sealing layers to provide an excellent seal but there is a risk of flange surface damage . 2011 at 2:16pm · Like Static Equipment Group . 2011 at 6:35pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai to add further for high pressure service as mentinned above connectors are used instead of conventional flanged joint. November 9. for your design condition.g..Camprofile gaskets consist of a metal core (generally Stainless Steel) with concentric grooves on either side with sealing materials. as per me it should be grooved metal gasket... Also please tell me for 10000 PSI what should be Gasket type ? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 26... neutral and alkaline environments. can go ahead of the same. what I have experienced is the selection of gasket is vbery much dependent on the client. Visit website of grayloc connectors for further detail.. IF RTJ flange is not there than you can go for SW gasket. So for type of gasket you decide based on pressure & temperature & select material according to the environment in which this gasket going to be installed.November 12. Now selection of gasket material is depends upon the corrosive service in which gasket will be used. Let me know if your query has been answered or not.. whatsur view? November 10. 2011 at 5:48pm · Like Chetan Patel Hemant... If your flange rating is greater than 600# & it is intended for RTJ then your flange will be RTJ flange where ring type gasket will be the only option.. Page 246 of 390 share. in your case Design pressure is 350 bar so I think flange rating will be more than 900#. But still this issue is under discussion whether camprofile is better or SW gasket is better. Aluminium or Silver).but want to know that sw will work for this pressure. CAF or Metal (e. 2011 at 11:36pm Hemant Solanki Physical properties are important factors when considering gasket design and the primary selection of a gasket type is based on the following: • Temperature of the media to be contained • Pressure of the media to be contained • Corrosive nature of the application • Criticality of the application Chetan...November 10... 2011 at 1:21pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta hi dear. Alloy 625 (Incoloy) material is preferable to use in a wide range of acid. The sealing layers protect the flange surfaces from damage in addition to providing an effective seal. if the vendor has the experience and none of the specification rules out the use of SPWD. 2011 at 5:24pm · Like Hemant Solanki Chetan first of all find out what is the flange rating for this equipment. The sealing layers (depending on the service duty) can be Graphite.. but it is not so that SPED cannot be used. in that case RTJ type flange with RTJ gasket is preferable. But definitely your flange face should be flat face in order to select camprofile or SW gasket. FYI. but usually it is avoided.

... So in other words all these processescontrolsnon metallic inclusions in plate which may lead to failure in case of lethal & hic services. September 14.So.. At many places i have studied that. Calcium treatment by its name it reduces calcium content from plate. September 13.... In most of the specifications PMC suggest vaccum degassing for plate manufacturing. u u want i can send u details of the same. 2011 at 7:19pm · Like Purav Desai I think thats the reason steels in corrosive service (h2s. 2011 at 8:58pm · Like Mrudang Mehta just a small correction. 2011 at 9:30am via mobile Pramod Dixit Because there are HARD NUT impurities who do not flow transverse to rolling direction.it is removal of gases.. November 12.. 2011 at 9:00pm · Like Mrudang Mehta time to search it. Static Equipment Group . 2011 at 12:33pm · Like Hemant Solanki Purav.. you will come to know. September 13. Vaccum degassing is used to reduce the sulfur content in plate..Facebook . please correct me if I am wrong. Page 247 of 390 Purav Desai hi friends. 2011 at 11:27am · Like Mrudang Mehta Dear Hemant.. when through to rolling they will be reduced in dimension and flattened and make the layer which is no fusion to others. actually as its name suggest. just i need November 12. This proces helps to reduce non metallic inclusions in steel. 2011 at 9:39pm via mobile · Like Krishna Desai It is inherent Characteristics of rolling. 2011 at 12:24pm · Like NiketanMahadik The defect came from steel making process where some inclusions metallic or non metallic even porosity.If you put some impurirties in "aata" and then try to make roti from one rolling direction only. When we apply welding or grinding they will be visible like crack in rolling direction. Also in addition to this calcium treatment is specified to get spherical grains. and not sulphur.... September 18. hic) are made by vacuum furnac thru vacuum Degassing process...Vaccum degassing if done for plates.. it is very true that hard nut impurities cannot flow transverse to rolling direction. Crack developes along the rolling direction of the steel Why? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 13... September 16.

.However Static Equipment Group .2 material then CS-3 is the external pressure chart. use the appropriate temperature curve shown in Fig. The Design Temperature of the reactor has been given as 485°C Earlier the design temperature was 480°C. and followed chart CS3. where it is specified as "These curves shall not be used for design temperature above 150° C. there are temperature curves upto 480°C. When Table Y-1 yield strength values at design temperature are less than 260 MPa for the material covered by this chart. So is it that PVELITE is unable to calculate allowable compressive stresses above 480°C. When I design the reactor with Design temperature of 485°C considering class 2 material. Above 150°C. there was no such error. Also as per Note-3. Page 248 of 390 November 12. use the appropriate temperature curve shown in Fig.Facebook . I checked out UG-23." When used CS2.. As per CS-3 chart Note-b. Above 150 °C. I am getting following error: "Allowable Temperature exceeded while computing compressive stress" But when I designed this reactor with earlier design temperature of 480°C. These curves shall not be used for design temperature above 150°C. CS-2. So you can use Class 2 material and select CS-2 external pressure chart for this material. 2011 at 9:00pm · Like SujayMarwah Please help me out in this: In one of the case while designing a Reactor following is the problem I am facing: Material has been specified as 1¼Cr ½Mo. In your case yield strength will be around 154 MPA so you can use this option. Fig. as per HaldorTopsoe material chart. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 2. this material can be used upto 500°C. CS-2 shall be used. If you use Cl.. CS-2. Also one more thing. 2011 at 8:24pm Hemant Solanki Sujay as discussed you on phone.

two stress values were available in ASME.Facebook . I suggest select Cl. TX Mohamed Hussein likes this.1 material with CS-2 chart it shows same error line.. 2012 at 7:38pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .January 5. 2011 at 12:26pm · Like Vishal Patil I think ans is something around the expansion of the material. Pvelite only highlighting the situation which they follows in such case. Can anybody throw some light on note G5. 2012 at 7:37pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai hi group members. they are also subjected to torsional stress due to rotation..January 5.... all SS flanges are designed considering lower stress value.. it is not the major error as if you see in pvelite it is not coming under error. 2011 at 7:22am near Houston.December 4.. 2011 at 10:18am · Like Manish Shukla I am referring to thermal conductivity table TCD in section II part D. my main doubt is regarding 1st and 2nd line of note G5 referred to table 1A of section II-D.. Page 249 of 390 you told that even if you are selecting Cl. design is done considering lower allowable stress values. December 12. givinghiger flange thickness.. so to be safe .its imp cz when u derive skin metal temp for a CS & SS equipment with same refractory and design condition. For gasketed joints we generally go with lower allowable stress values at corresponding temperature as per note G5 of table 1A Section II-D. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 5..... 2012 at 2:38pm via mobile Samir Jani likes this. skin temp wud be different. Mrudang Mehta Hi Purav. Why thermal conductivity of Carbon Steel (Mat Group-A) decreases with increase in temperature and Why on other hand thermal conductivity of Stainless Steel (Mat Group-J) increases with increase in temperature? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 9. I have following doubt. 2011 at 5:32pm · Like Purav Desai Dear group member. this is because..etc.2 material and in material property edit CS-3 to CS-2. 2011 at 5:25pm · Like Vishal Patil i think we have to check the phase transformation properties of carbon steel "730°C due to a chemical transformation from ferrite-pearlite to austentite". While using stainless steel materials. to add further. Manish Shukla Anyone with the answer pls?.December 12. December 12.. FYI.flanges are not only subject to tensile or compressive stress like shell or heads...

" . cleats for piping.. the understanding is if there is hydrogen atom being very small. Not a big deal. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 20. After a few cycles of that.January 6. Nozzles are self-reinforced correspondingly. until the vessel de-pressurizes. hydrogen will diffuse into the space between the pad and the vessel shell.. Page 250 of 390 Mrudang Mehta idonot recall the notes completely. 2012 at 8:07am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki In Hydrogen service pad should be avoided as per most of the specifications..January 5. it depends on the hydrogen partial pressure. these weep holes often get forgotten or filled....it is not only for sour services but also for all the Pad for attachments too.. not a problem. gets accumulated between vessel wall and padd December 20. You are correct.. there are formulae and curves to describe this phenomenon.. will diffuse through the solid steel wall. fillet welds will likely crack. but if. In fact... 2011 at 7:11pm Purav Desai likes this. It's a similar process as you would see in hydrogen blistering.. can permeate through the vessel wall. these higher stress values were established at temperatures where the short-time tensile properties govern to permit the use of these alloys where slightly greater deformation is acceptable. is it only restricted to nozzle pad or other attachment pad is also should not attached on hydrogen service vessel? Please keep your views... 2011 at 9:03pm · Like Mrudang Mehta inside can became hazardous. is my understanding okieee. Normally. because of it's extremely small size. ladder and platforms in equipments in hydrogen service. the weep-hole that was drilled into the repad should be sufficient to allow the hydrogen to escape. Static Equipment Group . for hydrogen service. However. However. Pads are however ok for componemnts such as support lugs... and re-pad will no longer be "attached" to the shell. However..Facebook . if you have a re-pad on the outside of a vessel. and ends up pressurizing the vessel shell under the re-pad. 2011 at 8:19pm · Like Mrudang Mehta HI.. Many BUT NOT ALL project specification adhere to this practice. NiketanMahadik 1) For sour service. 2) The hydrogen molecule. "Due to relatively low yield strength of these materials.. 2012 at 7:40pm · Like Purav Desai hi mrudang. it is generally a good engineering practice to avoid pads altogether considering the risk of HIC (hydrogen induced cracking) in the welds connecting pads to shell.will check and come back. However please refer below note G5 first two lines... and hydrogen pressure can built up. and the hydrogen tries to escape. December 20. the specification restricts the use of RF pads. generally pads are not restricted unless specifically not allowed by applicable project specifications. The stress values in this range exceed 66 2/3 % but do not exceed 90% of the yield strength at temperature. if they pass to atmosphere.

December 21. maybe they are in fact perfect. 2011 at 12:11pm · Like Mrudang Mehta i completely agree with NiketanMahadik December 23. no crevice and the weld can easily be inspected.. full penetration welding only.Because Hydrogen will first start to diffuse into vessel shell and due to which vessel shell will fail first due to hydrogen blistering. For these reasons it is general policy not have any pads where vessels are in hydrogen service. Why take a chance on a fillet weld being free from cracks on the surface or the toe which you cannot see. It does not matter what type the attachment is. In that case Nozzle which is piercing vessel shell should not have pad which is understandable.. December 23. If the fillet weld on a pad is perfect.. be it nozzles or attachments. But cleats which will not going to pierce vessel can be welded on external pad. 2011 at 10:46pm · Like Mrudang Mehta Sorry friends. without flaw. 2011 at 9:03pm · Like Rajendra Sharma Pad for external attachment like pipe support cleats are acceptable. These hairline cracks (if any) will be subject to hydrogen stress corrosion cracking which may eventually lead to failure of the weld and possibly the component it is attaching to the shell.Facebook . 2011 at 12:13pm · Like Hemant Solanki This I came across from one of the articles on H2 service : In hydrogen service pads are not a good idea in fact any part of a vessel with a crevice which is in hydrogen service is an area of potential failure.However nozzle shall be self reinforced type in toyo spec and in shell spec it is above 230 degree C. Static Equipment Group . The inside toe of a fillet weld is prone to small cracks which can occur as the weld cools down and it is these small cracks that suffer as hydrogen passes through them. a reinforcing pad of a nozzle or a lifting lug pad and a crevice is a crevice.. December 21. Page 251 of 390 December 20. 2011 at 9:40pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki What I understand is if vessel is in Hydrogen service then it is the liquid inside which contains hydrogen.. A vessel with a pad on the lifting lug may be lifted some years in the future and if the inside toe of the fillet weld is degraded because of hydrogen attack it could be catastrophic.. I am also viewing this requirement in different aspect as in Hydrogen service 100% radiography requirement is given in most of the specs and on fillet weld radiography is not possible. No where it will hamper external cleats pads. then maybe it would be acceptable but it has to be perfect.. December 20. Roy Pads are not applicable to pressure part only. 2011 at 6:22pm · Like Amarnath C. So it may be that's why some specs asking to avoid external cleats pads. without cracks but maybe not.. but RF pads are not acceptable for any attachments. It is not possible to examine the inside of such welds because they are inside the pad.

. As per my info. 2012 at 11:01am · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear friends. 2012 at 10:11am · Like Purav Desai yes i agree with hemant.. Historically. 2012 at 11:29am nearBaroda. 2012 at 10:57am · Like Ankur Gupta i agree with hemant's above description.. December 31. January 3. however wrought iron pressure vessels are no longer manufactured.. January 13... and also agree. Gujarat NiketanMahadik P number 3 are the low alloy Carbon-Moly and Chrome-Moly steels...give ur views January 8... These charts are plotted as per the industrial experiences. January 17. extremely low ductility. 2012 at 8:22am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . January 15.. P number 2 materials are not used as P-2 materials are not listed in ASME SEC IX..Facebook ... 2012 at 10:58am · Like Ankur Gupta for nozzle we make opening in the wall either shell or head & hence the welding between nozzle & wall become critical in H2S service. 2012 at 7:41am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki As per API 941 charts they exempted this material... P no 3 materials are also prohibited for the use. As per API with this material more accidental reports has been witnessed so they do not recommend this material for use.but in case of external attachments.. The primary weldability problems with wrought irons are excessive carbon and. 2012 at 8:15pm · Like Ankur Gupta i agree with hemant January 8. these attachments are welded over the wall & hence i think pads should be acceptable. Can anyone have idea why P number 3 material are not used? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 13. ASME used P2 for wrought iron. And also alongwith P no 2 materials. 2011 at 6:54pm · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta like this. in most cases.. Page 252 of 390 If you put a vent in the pad the hydrogen still constantly passes through any cracks that may be present and start the process of stress corrosion cracking. 2012 at 8:07pm · Unlike · 2 Rajendra Sharma do we use 1Cr 1/2Mo???? January 15..but further to this my understandung is: January 8...

It was used in past.Facebook .. or A free water pH < 4 and some dissolved H2S present (recognition that in low pHenvironments significant charging of materials with atomic hydrogen can take placeirrespective of H2S level). gas condensate or crude oil equal to or exceeding0. 2012 at 9:15am nearBaroda. between two. 2012 at 4:44pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai This gasket is used for high temperature (>454 ºC) application. January 17.March 10.March 9. it was first developed in year 1975 and similarly NACE MR0103 was first issued in 2003. sour service definition as per MR0103 : >50 ppmw dissolved H2S in the free water (recognition that significant levels of dissolved H2S can result in SSC even in low pressure systems).flexitallic. 2012 at 9:44pm · Like · 1 Kumar Kashyap sour service definition as per MR0175: a partialpressure of H2S in the wet gas phase of a gas.. Is there any significance of number 175 and 103 in NACE MR0175 & MR0103. high temperature.. oil wells) &down stream (refineries) are quite different. Gujarat Purav Desai Its m = 2 & Y = 2500 psi... Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 29. 2012 at 2:33pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Further.05 psia) partial pressure H2S in a process with a gas phase (based onhistorical MR0175 definition of sour service. is your application involve high temperature?.6 and > 20 ppmw hydrogen cyanide ion (HCN) and some H2S dissolvedin the free water (recognition that at high pH the HCN ion is stable and results in significantcharging of ferritic materials by poisoning the formation of a protective iron sulfide scale).pdf March 2. 2012 at 7:59pm via mobile Kumar Kashyap MR0175 is used for upstream (more corrosive environment) whereas MR0103 is for downstream….com/files/brochures/broDesignCriteria. Page 253 of 390 Purav Desai the main point is LAS materials are used in high pressure. hydrogen service environment.. 3 materials.What are basic diff.March 2. without low-pressure cut-offs). Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 9. 2012 at 4:48pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel Dear all. And hence both the standards were separated.. Significance of 175 in NACE MR0175 is that. 3 material is one of the LAS material with the desired properties. Its the reason most of the PMC (EIL. i found on below link.www. material requirements & testing methods in both standards are little different…. TOYO. P no. JACOBS) specification also say NO to this materials. Difference in both the codes rightly explained in above post by kashyap…..March 9.. However API 941 is pure experience based code and it has a bitter experience of P no.. Under such condition we need materials with higher strength. NACE committee found that corrosion mechanisms for upstream (oil rigs. after issuing the standard.0003MPa abs (0. 2012 at 9:49pm · Like Purav Desai Dear Mitul.. or >0. If you refer carefully. or A free water pH > 7.March 10.0003 MPa abs (0.05 psia). 2012 at 8:31am via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear all Do anyone knows the m and y value for graphite with tanged insert type gasket. 2012 at 2:37pm · Like Static Equipment Group .

. 2012 at 7:04pm · Like Arpita Shah Thanx for your update... This becomes more critical when we select SS for creep range service. If others have any opinion to share. March 26.. March 7.. 2012 at 2:04pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Right now reading one interesting article on Titanic ship published in 'Safari' Magazine. Page 254 of 390 Mrudang Mehta If you are a design engineer. NiketanMahadik and 2 others like this. But able to to use much..Titanic engineers thought that as these rivets are large in numbers it will not affect strength of the ship. But due to poor strength these rivets got Static Equipment Group .. If you see as per my above comment the maximum temp limit for 36L and 321L is 454 degree centigrade which is below the creep range..March 15. That rivets were made of wrought iron.... March 5. in other words these grades will not be selected for high temperature or creep range services... One more interesting thing the investigation team found is that the Titanic whole structure is joined with around 30.. that's why ASME has intentionally not included these grades in table UHA-44.. It has been proved that the Titanic ship was made from the steel which have very bad impact properties or in other words that steel was having more brittleness.. 2012 at 8:44pm · Like Hemant Solanki Fibre elongation limit for SS is kept at 20% because above this much elongation grain size of SS gets more refinement which adversly affects its rupture strength. 316L and 321L is not added in this table as its temp limit is 454 degree centigrade.please discuss the same here... I have gone through both of the NACE in detail number if times..000 riveted joints. so above 20% fibre elongation solution annealing is done in order to stop refinement of grain structure. 2012 at 12:10am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Dear friends As per 2011 addenda now 304L grade is also added in table UHA-44 which specifies strain limit.Facebook . Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 4. 2012 at 5:30pm via mobile Swapnil Deshmukh.. They have tested its steel plate in laboratory and found that the same steel segment got broken during charpy impact testing. Which is very bad result as we know that during charpy test the section may get bend but should not broken. 304 and 304H were already there but 304L is added this time. The same was not the case with 304L that's why ASME has corrected this table and included 304L this time. Just remember to mention the same on the data sheet and remember to confirm the compliance to the same in vendor offer. These rivets were very poor in strength. They mentioned that after Titanic accident the investigation team has acquired the broken ship parts from deep sea. What is important is both call for nearly same hardness requirement and material composition. Krishna Desai Hemant thanks for sharing.. FYI 304 and 304H can be used uptown 816 degree centigrade and 304L can be use uptown 649 degree centigrade.

the scientists noted the condition of the edges. scientists discovered a chunk of metal lying on the ocean floor that once was a part of the Titanic's hull. Olympic. Further evidence of the brittle fracture of the hull steel was found when a cigarette-sized coupon of the steel taken from the Titanic wreck was subjected to a Charpy test. having the appearance of brittle fractures [Garzke and others. A 36-foot high opening was torn into the starboard side of the Olympic's hull when a British cruiser broadsided her. Both coupons were placed in a bath of alcohol at -1°C to simulate the conditions on the night of the Titanic disaster. Actually The company who has received order to build Titanic was having treamandous pressure to built up Titanic ship along with one more ship 'Atlanta' on time. 1994].It is also possible that material properties has been change during this duration & It got failed in impact testing i. A piece of modern high-quality steel was tested along with the coupon from the hull steel. the Charpy test is run by holding the coupon against a steel backing and striking the coupon with a 67 pound pendulum on a 2. 1995]. Since the retrieval of this piece of steel. But at last their assumptions proved wrong. 1911. Used to measure the brittleness of a material. So we should learn from these things.Article also tells some thing related to grain orientation of glass fibres in revetsmaterial. Due to this they neglected such things considering some assumptions from past experience.Facebook . The following is a discussion of the material failures and design flaws that contributed to the disaster. like broken china. A type of catastrophic failure in structural materials. the edges of the piece of steel appeared almost shattered. the pendulum swung down and halted with a thud. The Hull Steel: The first hint that brittle fracture of the hull steel contributed to the Titanic disaster came following the recovery of a piece of the hull steel from the Titanic wreck. with a readout of forces electronically recorded in millisecond detail. Similar behavior was found in the damaged hull steel of the Titanic's sister ship. extensive research has been done to uncover additional clues to the cause of the rapid sinking of the Titanic. The Frisbee sized piece of steel was an inch thick with three rivet holes. brittle fracture occurs without prior plastic deformation and at extremely high speeds. The pendulum's point of contact is instrumented. the Titanic was travelling at a high speed on impact with the iceberg. When the coupon of the modern steel was tested. The causes of brittle fracture include low temperature. the metal showed no evidence bending or deformation. the plate tears exhibited little plastic deformation and the edges were unusually sharp. and the hull steel contained high levels of sulphur.britttlefrature…April 14. each of these three factors was present: The water temperature was below freezing. Failure of the riveted joints and ripping of the hull plates were apparent in the area of impact. Ruby Sahu and 8 others like this. After cleaning the piece of steel. the hull steel and the wrought iron rivets failed because of brittle fracture. Typical high-quality ship steel is more ductile and deforms rather than breaks [Gannon. after a collision while leaving harbor on September 20. However. Mitul Patel I have also read this article In addition in what you have mentioned. 2012 at 10:28pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki On an expedition in 1991 to the Titanic wreck. We should strive for output but not on cost of quality. Kishor Wani.which was not as per requiredBut if you have notice they have tested plates of titanic after number of years it has exposed to sea water. and high sulphur content. 2012 at 7:30pm Manoj Nandwalkar. Jagged and sharp. Material Failures: When the Titanic collided with the iceberg. Page 255 of 390 broken from head section itself due to which the whole structure got opened up from back side of hip.5-foot-long arm. On the night of the Titanic disaster. each 1. high impact loading.25 inches in diameter [Gannon. the test piece had bent Static Equipment Group . 1995]. Through which the sea water rushed into the compartments of ship. Also.e. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 14.

and the readout confirmed. the water in some of the compartments began to spill over into adjacent compartments. What the test showed. the sinking would have been slowed.Sealing off the compartments was completed immediately after the damage was realized. After the collision with the iceberg. the rivets would have deformed before failing because of their ductility. the rivets had become extremely brittle. the rivet heads in the areas of contact were simply popped off. 1995]. 1996]. Like a giant lever. Normally. the hull portion of six of these sixteen compartments was damaged. but she would have remained afloat for another six hours before foundering [Gannon. As a result. possibly allowing enough time for nearby ships to help. The lower section of the Titanic was divided into sixteen major watertight compartments that could easily be sealed off if part of the hull was punctured and leaking water. the contact with the iceberg was probably a series of impacts that caused the rivets to fail either in shear or by elongation [Garzke and others. Also. because of the extensive flooding of the bow compartments and the subsequent flooding of the entire ship. As the iceberg scraped along sections of the Titanic's hull. Although the compartments were called watertight.With the ship travelling at nearly 25 mph. which was determined as 25 to 35°C for the Titanic steel. Although most of the steel used for shipbuilding in the early 1900s had a relatively high sulphur content. High sulphur content increases the brittleness of steel by disrupting the grain structure Thesulphur combines with magnesium in the steel to form stringers of magnesium sulphide. the water would have been better contained within the damaged compartments. which act as "highways" for crack propagation. 1994]. If the transverse bulkheads (the walls of the watertight compartments that are positioned across the width of the ship) had been a few feet taller. the Titanic was gradually pulled below the waterline. made using the open-hearth process. However.The watertight compartments were useless to countering the damage done by the collision with the iceberg. and the Titanic would have remained horizontal. the hull plates transferred the inward forces. Eventually. When the Titanic struck the iceberg. 1996].Facebook . Most modern steels would need to be chilled below -60°C before they exhibited similar behavior. they were actually only watertight horizontally. but with water temperatures below freezing. is the brittleness of the Titanic's hull steel. and continued up on its swing. Some of the scientists studying the disaster have even concluded that the watertight compartments contributed to the disaster by keeping the flood waters in the bow of the ship. which broke the caulking along the seams and provided another inlet for water to flood the ship. 1995]. the hull plates did not deform. broken into two pieces. High oxygen content leads to an increased ductile-to-brittle transition temperature. Page 256 of 390 into a "V. If there had been no compartments at all. the ship would have sunk. which opened up riveted seams.When the iceberg tore through the hull plates. The test showed high levels of both oxygen and sulphur. because of the tremendous forces created on impact with the iceberg. The rivets were then either elongated or snapped in two. to the rivets along the plate seams. rivets not in the area of contact with the iceberg were also subjected to incredible forces.A microstructural analysis of the Titanic steel also showed the plausibility of brittle fracture of the hull steel. which caused more seams to open up. sailed across the room [Gannon. applied to the edges of the cracked plates by the water rushing into the hull. Design Flaws: Along with the material failures. huge holes were created that allowed water to flood the hull of the ship. They fractured. the sample. their tops were open and the walls extended only a few feet above the waterline [Hill. The Rivets: The wrought iron rivets that fastened the hull plates to the Titanic's main structure also failed because of brittle fracture from the high impact loading of the collision with the iceberg and the low temperature water on the night of the disaster." barely slowed. the Titanic's steel was high even for the times [Hill. when the coupon of the Titanic steel was tested. the pendulum struck the coupon with a sharp "ping. This amount of time would have been Static Equipment Group . but as the bow of the ship began to pitch forward from the weight of the water in that area of the ship. which implies that the steel was semi-kilned low carbon steel. Consequently. the incoming water would have spread out." However. the rivets were sheared off. poor design of the watertight compartments in the Titanic's lower section was a factor in the disaster.

Page 257 of 390 sufficient for nearby ships to reach the Titanic's location so all of her passengers and crew could have been saved…. Hence for such equipments/piping.Facebook .e. as per standard practice.org/~/Media/Files/TechnicalLiterature/AlloySelectionforCausticSodaSe rvice_10019_. 2012 at 11:29am · Like Purav Desai Hi friends. Equipment and nozzle is of SS 304L. I will check in that. (primer + mid coat + finish coat).April 15. (1) Generally. According to which to avoid stress corrosion cracking due to sodium hydroxide licencor has mentioned to provide one insert pipe of Alloy 625 which will be protrude inside equipment by 50 mm through nozzle.pdf http://www. insulation is not applied to flanged joints. April 22. Can any body share their view with this kind of arrangement how stress corrosion cracking can be avoided ? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 20. (primer + mid coat + finish coat) to be applied.nickelinstitute.nickelinstitute. Purav Desai HI I recently come across NaOH corrosion for the chemical plant. we generally apply primer coat only. ideally we shall have two differenet painting system. For insulated equipments/piping only primer is to be applied and for un-insulated. I think I have this NIDI Paper. Refer the attached link it give all idea regarding material selection for NaOH service.org April 22. Is above requirement really taken care of in the projects? Static Equipment Group . material (CS/LAS/SS) and whether equipment/piping is insulated/un-insulated..http://www. And hence flanged joint becomes un- insulated part of the equipment & its painting shall be done accordingly i.org/~/Media/Files/TechnicalLiterature/AlloySelectionforCaus ticSodaService www. painting specifications are made considering temperature range. 2012 at 11:55am · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki Right now I came across one requirement to avoid stress corrosion cracking from licencor datasheet. 2012 at 7:36am · Like · Remove Preview Hemant Solanki Thanks Dear. 2012 at 8:01pm Kiran Gawade likes this. However. (2) Now coming to insulated piping and insulated equipments with flanged joint (exchanger specially).nickelinstitute. I come to know one interesting point for equipment/piping painting.

when to insulate flange and when not. What i wrote in earlier replys are based on my practical exp…. But I am not sure whether this is really taken care of and this is what Purav's question is.if you have u paste in reply mail….March 30..March 29.March 30. will ask to apply till finish coat on uninsulated part.. in both piping and equipment ?.scribd.. Temp. Purpose of insulation is for heat conservation/losses with atm. So. Page 258 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 29. Between partial weld and full strength weld joint. you will find that heat exchanger girth flanges/covers and some of the piping flanges are not to be insulated.do not say about design consideration.April 2. 2012 at 1:44pm via mobile · Like Vishal Patil Flanges are also insulated only difference is that thflanges are covers by box type. But inspector at the site if notice.. manufacturer will provide only primer coat same as equipment body which is insulated. insulation specification made by Owner/PMC clearly define scope for items/parts not to be insulated.. 2012 at email 9:49am via · Like MishalBhatiya Is there any guideline available. 2012 at email 10:37am via · Like Vishal Patil No idea. 2012 at 9:51pm · Like Madhusudhan Shetty i understand that even flanges will be having a insulation box up otherwise there will be a sudden temperature drop which will create a unexpected thermal expansion near the flanges which is not a good engineering practice…. Refer any of the project specification you did/doing... However as per my experience.. I agree that flanges can be insulated.May 1. 2012 at email 9:15am via · Like Kumar Kashyap The question is not whether flange can be insulated or not? the question is if a equipment is insulated and flange is not then do we provide coating till finish coat(primer+midcoat+finish) on flange? In general in such case..com/doc/68152640/72/THERMAL- INSULATION-DETAILS-FOR-FLANGES…. 2012 at 9:01am · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam Hi to everybody. refer linkhttp://www.March 29. 2012 at 7:36pm · Like Purav Desai Hi Vishal.till date i haven't given different painting spec for flanges…. 2012 at 10:04am · Like Hemant Nikam Dear all specifications are made based on the practical experience in that field.March 30. 2012 at 11:31pm · Like Arpita Shah Static Equipment Group .March 30.. in case of flanges because of thickness and large od than the main shell heat losses from flanges while keeping uninsulated are very negligible /less. leakage can not be identified & it can lead to hazard…. 2012 at 9:46am Hemant Nikam This is the ancient age pracite from long decades….. that is main reason for it...and second is personal protection. may be ready made molded insulation. My another question is for tube to tube sheet joint Anybody have the weld configuration diff.March 29.Facebook . this shall be taken care in projects. The main reason for that is if flanged joint is insulated.

2012 at 1:52pm via mobile · Like Arpita Shah Thax 2 all of you…March 22.March 21... If past experience isnot available then better to change the material. Actually equipment rarely touches the design temperature and pressure conditions so creep issue will not occur.There is no problem if no cyclic service/Thermal fatigue is there.March 21. Can you confirm what is MOC of Coke Drums?. This just slipped of my mind…March 22.. Roy We have used SA-516 Gr 70 at 400 C in one of Shell Canada project. 2012 at 8:45pm · Like Static Equipment Group . 11 Cl 1/2. 2012 at 10:48pm · Like Purav Desai Hi.. Design Temperature of HP steam is 427 ºC &almost in every case carbon steel is the material…March 22.Purav. equipments handling HP steam. So it is better to use it upto 375°C…. 2012 at 7:34pm · Like · 1 Amarnath C. 427 Deg C. 2012 at 9:09am · Like Chetan Patel coke drum moc is 1. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 20..g.March 22. 2012 at 1:51pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta Nice example. SA 387 Gr. Even one can find that the one licencer may be using material but others wont for same service….March 21.March 21. 2012 at 6:30pm via mobile · Like Chetan Patel CS material can be used above 400°C also but its property become time dependant and as Mehta mentioned its allowable stress reduce drastically…. 2012 at 11:54pm · Like Satvik Patel you can use SA 516 Gr 70…March 23. CS strength decrease drastically after 343 Deg C. generally process licencer considered the past experience with the equipment. LOw alloy steel (LAS) is preferred. Page 259 of 390 Frdsplz tell me which csmtrl is use for temperature upto 400 deg centigrade for heat exchanger component. 2012 at 1:04pm · Like Mrudang Mehta Thanks Chetan…March 22. 2012 at 1:22pm · Like Vishal Patil CS material can be used at 400 deg design temperatures.March 22...25 cr 0. CS use is limited by change in grain structure due to conti exposure at high temperature so while selecting the CS material for high temperatures. classic example is. in boilers CS is there. Selection of material procedure which considers lots of aspects.. 2012 at 7:00pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Purav bhai. for steam application e. i think Coke Drums are operated at temperature above 400 Deg C... exact number not able to recollect. 2012 at 10:36pm via mobile Mrudang Mehta Hi.5 Mo + ss 410s clad…March 22. But after 375°C the stress values are based on creep range. Hope this helps…. Can you give me examples of same. I think EIL is limited the use to 350 to 370 degcel. For design temp above 343 to approx. 2012 at 8:45pm · Like Mrudang Mehta I was trying to recollect and also trying to search for equipment with CS MOC and design temperature of 400 Deg C. 2012 at 6:36pm · Like Hemant Solanki According to II-D SA 516-60 and SA 516-70 can be use upto 538°C..Facebook . but we must ensure the operating temperature of the equipment.mainly SA 515 due to its coarse grain structure….March 28. Creep design or time dependent properties are actually related to working conditions rather than design condition.

2012 at 7:37am via mobile · Like Vishal Patil Some aspects to this query:. its client choice to avoid welding on the nozzles…May 8. So it merely client choice whether they wants to go with plate fabricated nozzle for higher size or not…. Will cause post forming residual stresses……May 15. If it so then seamless pipes are ok.and nozzle sizes if upto 12 inch..May 9. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 7. reasons may be if 100 radiography is there then cost for plate made nozzles increases….If the nozzle is bigger than 10" or 14" plate can be used instead of pipe with 100% RT. of examples including almost all PMC and licenser specification wherein nozzle made of plate is allowed and such vessels are operating successfully in plant as on date. nozzles shall be made from plate if its size is relatively high (more than 24") and such higher size nozzle is as good as small vessel. In this case we have to raise the TQ to client and ask for same…. we have checked client is not allowing plate material for nozzle but allow ERW welded pipe for nozzle size more than 16 inch. 2012 at 9:10pm · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group .May 8. 2012 at 10:19pm via mobile · Like Mihir Jha There is no any reason. 2012 at 7:48pm · Like Hemant Solanki Dear All. 2012 at 11:35pm · Like Rajendra Sharma Hi friends .May 8. Page 260 of 390 Madhusudhan Shetty special consideration shall be given to bolted joints…May 1. 2012 at 6:30pm · Like Rajendra Sharma In addition to this please note that Plate MOC with 100% RT is also not acceptable…May 8.May 8. 2012 at email 8:31am via · Like Chetan Patel HIC testing is not required for pipe and forging but if you use plate it should be hic tested.May 8. 2012 at 8:16pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai Hi Rajendra. As per me. So we can use plate fabricated nozzle with 100% radiography for higher size nozzles (preferably 16" and above). its difficult to roll plates in pipe form. 2012 at 7:11am · Like Hemant Nikam Check Pipes are welded or seamless.please suggest the reason of not using plate MOC for nozzles. 2012 at 8:35pm · Like Patel Sajit For query raised by rajendra.. Rajendra. as rolling is happening on it…. Because as per projection of nozzles the actual plate length required to fabricate it is not much.Facebook . As for one of the ongoing project client requirement is to use only pipe or forging material.. Hence to me... Now if vessel shell made of plate is allowed then whats the problem with nozzle made of plate? Further you can get n no.. as discussed in your case client has specifically asked to use forged nozzles (SRN) for all sizes due to high pressure service. There will be not much increase in cost due to HIC testing or 100% radiography for plate fabricated nozzles. 2012 at 9:18pm Arpita Shah Bcoz pipe is seamless and if we prepared pipe from plate 100% RT is required…May 7. If any one want to use plate for smaller nozzles. technically there is no problem to use nozzle made of plate and client can be convinced accordingly…..

2012 at 8:41pm Hemant Solanki In Section II.e. 25%. We have executed a previous project for MRPL which is H2S service with high pressure but its not considered as lethal substance…. copper. Page 261 of 390 Maulik R Shah Why UNS no N08904 (SS 904L) comes in non ferrous group as there is 47% iron is present in the material ?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 20. 2012 at 11:16am via mobile · Like Souji Jose wet H2S and H2S gas are in liquid phase and gaseous phase resp. Alloys of the UNS N08xxx type are currently added to ferrous Material Specifications while simultaneously remaining in the nonferrous ones. However.Facebook .June 22. 2012 at 8:21pm · Like · 1 Maulik R Shah thanks Hemant Solanki…June 23. it is easy to call the alloys nonferrous when they are titanium. however.wet H2S in liquid form is corrosive causes stress induced cracking and Static Equipment Group . Part B.June 21. 2012 at 12:45pm · Like Mitul Patel Does wet H2S service shall be considered as lethal service as per defination given in Asme section 8 Div. 2012 at 6:45pm via mobile  Hemant Solanki Requirements for lethal service are scattered through VIII-1. the largest element content dictates the specification with which the alloy is to be used. this comes into non ferrous group. it would then be a ferrous material. It is up to the user to determine if a service is lethal. this class includes substances of this nature which are stored under pressure or may generate a pressure if stored in a closed vessel. the code cases and the interpretations. ASME VIII-1 section UW-2 (2007 edition) has most of the requirements for lethal service. zirconium or even nickel-based alloys. The old rule was to consider an alloy to be ferrous if more than 50% of its composition was of elements other than iron. many alloys listed in B/SB specifications for nickel alloys are (if developed today) ferrous alloys. As per your finding It should come under Lethal…. 2012 at 8:50pm · Like BikasPaikray H2S is not a Lethal Substances. If an alloy has more than 50% of its content other than iron but with iron still its largest single component. Its toxic but not a lethal. As iron is 44% and Nickel is more i. These materials all have the unified numbering system (UNS) alloy identification as N08xxx. For purposes of this Division. However In II-A you will find this UNS number also listed with ferrous material specification and in II-B it is listed with non-ferrous specification. For all new materials of the present day.1 UW-2? I have read that inhaling 100 ppm of H2S gas can cause the death.please share your views.June 22.. N08904 is 44Fe-25Ni-21Cr-Mo.Hencepl do not consider behavior of both the same . But in IID stress values are only given for non ferrous material specification…. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 21. Two definitions of lethal service are provided in UW-2: [A] vessel is to contain fluids of such a nature that a very small amount mixed or unmixed with air is dangerous to life when inhaled[B] By "lethal substances" are meant poisonous gases or liquids of such a nature that a very small amount of the gas or of the vapour of the liquid mixed or unmixed with air is dangerous to-life when inhaled.

seamless pipe. 1) S31254 (SA213) 2) N08925 (SB-677) 3) N08926 (SB-677) 4) N08367 (SB-690) The major difference is Nickel content which is. leading suppliers of seamless tube. 2012 at 12:48pm · Like · Remove Preview Purav Desai There are total 4 grades available for 6Mo.as per ASME Section 2 partA. Page 262 of 390 NACE becomes applicable but is not lethal however gas form in certain proportions could be lethal…. Seamless Steel Tube..July 18. ~18% for S31254 ~25% for N08925 & N08926 ~24% for N08367 Further if you refer ASME Code. 2012 at 10:58am near Gorwa. H2S = 1000 ppm mol in gas or liquid stream and NH3 3000 ppm mol in gas or liquid stream…July 18. 2012 at 10:51am · Like Mihir Jha Wet H2S or any liquid if it is not specified "Lethal" by process or licensor data sheet... 1) SB-677 (N08925 & N08926) to be used for “GENERAL CORROSIVE SERVICE” Static Equipment Group . Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 24..chemipetro..co.co.July 3. Seamless Steel Tubing.there are so many material available for 6 Mo.php Seamless Tube. seamless steel tubing and seamless stainless steel pipes…July 24.soanyonecome across this material.but for non ferrous .the tube material specified is 6 Mo.uk/products/pipes-and-tubes. 2012 at 10:50am · Like Ashwani Sharma CO 12000 ppm mol in gas or liquid stream .chemipetro. 2012 at 2:29pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear friends In one of datasheet of heat exchanger.uk Chemipetro.July 18...Facebook . The liquid can't be assumed to be "lETHAL" by mechanical…. Gujarat Purav Desai http://www..if we consider this material as ferrous. 2012 at 11:24pm via mobile · Like Ashwani Sharma Lethal Service as per one of client spec is define as…... seamless steel tube. Seamless Stainless Steel P www.it is Uns 31254.please suggest which material to be considered. Seamless Pipe...

Sec.. For S31254.. Request to inform the service….. Other fact of the matter is.can we use it. One more doubt. electrolytes are solutions of acids. Page 263 of 390 2) SB-690 (N08367) to be used for “SPECIAL CORROSIVE SERVICE” And S31254 is a super austenitic stainless steel with a high level of molybdenum and nitrogen.tube material available is welded type only.. Hence it is comparatively less conductive however it has tendency to form galvanic cell... 2012 at 2:10pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai SWS unit is a part of Sulfur Recovery Unit. II D. as I observed during my engineering experience. if tube size is 1” then use can utilize seamless pipe (SA312 S31254)…. providing high resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion.July 24. seamless tube is available in SB-677 & SB-690 grade. 2012 at 9:03am near Gorwa.. For Cooling Water. Static Equipment Group . For Sea water chlorides are the maximum (more than 1000 ppm) and that makes it highly conductive and hence strong electrolyte which can form galvanic cell between dissimilar metal. for most of the cases material of SWS reboiler tubes is Austenitic SS (304L or 316L). At LTC many sulfur jobs were done and as I remember. As per my knowledge for SWS reboiler. acids or bases. Gujarat Purav Desai No. 2012 at 1:59pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Thank u very much sir. bases or salts (source Wikipedia). S31254 tube will work. The other element and most important is salts which can be found in water in terms of chlorides. II A lists yield & tensile strength under SA-213 but I do not have idea why allowable stresses are not listed in Sec. You can check the same.Facebook . Further. Hence selection of grade for 6Mo depends on the service of exchanger.as per ASME sec 2part D.... Now acid/base is related to PH of water. The reason is as explained below. An electrolyte is any substance containing free ions that make the substance electrically conductive.July 24. Hence. 2012 at 1:45pm · Like · 1 Viral Patel Unit is sour water stripper Services S/S : steam T/S : stripped water This exchanger is reboiler of sour water stripper column…July 24. as nickel content increases... chloride content is generally below 50 ppm.. cost will increase. 2012 at 3:55pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Dear friends Is water is always acts like an electrolyte irrespective of amount of salt dissolved in water (like sea water or demineralised cooling water) for initiating galvanic corrosion ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 14.July 24. Commonly. It is also to be noted that commonly found galvanic series for metals is also based on sea water. for water to behave as an electrolyte it must contain salts.. Anyway.

becomes brittle and often cracks or blisters. the steel loses its tensile strength. we have BFW Preheaters placed in syngas circuit are used without cathodic protection since beginning. for Div 2.. will not take part into corrosion though there is presence of two different electropotential material…. Hence I understand that. The spec.. If I relate the above with common refinery application..themoc is carbon steel but the gasket used is ss spiral wound.uk/upload/pdf/bimetallic_20071105114556. This kind of water has minimum chlorides (<10 ppm). The mechanism of diffusion of hydrogen into steel at high temperatures and pressures is believed to result from the dissociation of hydrogen molecules to Static Equipment Group .August 21..August 15.. SS Spiral wound gasket will work.will tend to form ions. When steel is exposed to hydrogen at high temperatures and pressures. There are two options for your case.. as the cathode to anode area ratio is very less.. 2012 at 10:23pm · Like Harry Chacko In a user design spec..August 14. its pH is also controlled & it is also free from any sands or dust particles. 2012 at 6:03pm via mobile · Like Purav Desaihttp://www.co. Page 264 of 390 The water which is de-mineralized or deaerated is considered as pure. is actually for the demonstration purpose of a U2 job for ASME certification.Facebook . with cathodic protection in place. That‟s the reason galvanic cell cannot be formed in de-mineralized or deaerated with dissimilar material. Is it possible that a hydrogen service is non corrosive ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · September 3. Hope this will help……August 14. Carbon steel parts will be Anode and SS gasket will be Cathode. we have many product coolers (which can either use sea water or cooling water based on availability) are provided with corrosion resistance alloys (SS/Ti/Non ferrous etc.. 2012 at 5:31pm · Like · 1 Rohitash Singh Panwar Thanks sir. In this case.which is not nuetral...thats why we have doubt regarding galvanic series formation…….Rate of corrosion depends on this Ph value..in one of the exchanger with cooling water on tube side.means which is acidic or basic in nature. The action of hydrogen at high temperatures and pressures differs from that at low temperatures and pressures.. (1) When u say cooling water with Carbon steel channel / tube / tubesheet& SS gasket. or (2) Use Iron Jacketed Gasket……. I found as " non corrosive hydrogen service". 2012 at 7:13pm · Like · 1 Rupesh Ubale Yes any media with Ph more than or less than 7. 2012 at 8:10am · Like Purav Desai Hi Rohitash.. Here I would like to share my own experience wherein one of the well known Hydrogen Plant Licensor confirmed that galvanic corrosion does not occur in BFW preheaters.. chances of galvanic corrosion is minimum. On other hand.npl.Under ideal circumstances with Ph=7 liq.this means electrolyte... 2012 at 3:45am Ramesh Tiwari Hydrogen will diffuse into steel under certain conditions..pdf August 15..) and also provided with cathodic protection (painting & anodes) to prevent from galvanic corrosion.

Page 265 of 390 monoatomic hydrogen. the hydrogen will diffuse from the steel. The methane does not diffuse out of steel and accumulates to form cracks and blisters. please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this email and any attachments permanently from your system. As the hydrogen diffuses into the steel at high temperatures. 2012 at 3:20pm · Like Hemant Solanki Don‟t know exactly as query has been raised by some other person. blistering and cracking is a serious problem with vessels handling hydrogen at high temperatures and pressures…. Can you inform operating temperature &service?.Facebook . If you are not the intended recipient.. it reacts with the carbon to form methane. II-D has given stress value based on stress rupture crietria. Mukesh K Prajapati Worth to share.. If you are not an intended recipient. 2012 at 12:36pm · Like Hemant Solanki Don‟t know exactly. Static Equipment Group . disclosure. However. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 4. It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. any reading.September 4. Purav Desai service means what is the fluid? is it a process gas?. Hence they retain heat for longer time and electrodes have tendency to get RED HOT while welding.. the rate of hydrogen diffusion from the steel will greatly increase.. 2012 at 2:12pm via Email Harry Chacko likes this. The hydrogen ions are converted to monoatomic hydrogen by means of electron exchange. The partial pressure of monoatomic hydrogen causes the hydrogen to diffuse into the steel. If the equipment is shut down for a period of time. At low temperatures and pressures. The embrittlement caused in a vessel by hydrogen diffusion is temporary. copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. Thanks Hemant……. You discuss what is the effect of it. use. But I think operating temp will be above 550°C with high temperature service.September 3.August 31. the mechanism of hydrogen diffusion is believed to be associated with the formation of hydrogen ions as a result of corrosive attack. Share your views about whether we can use these values without any other considerations? Purav Desai Dear Hemant. To avoid this the electrode sizes are smaller in length compared to carbon steel ones. If the equipment is cooled slowly.August 31. 2012 at 4:06pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki For 645°C design temperature can I use SS 321 grade because at this temperature stresses are time dependent (creep range). Many process plants operate normally without giving any particular consideration to hydrogen embrittlement. This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. 2012 at 10:06am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Austenitic stainless steel electrodes Why Austenitic stainless steel electrodes are generally smaller in length ? Austenitic SS have high thermal coefficient of expansion and Lower thermal conductivity compared to carbon steels.

There may be some fundamental behind this by ASME. Simply as tubesheets are not piping components they have excluded it from here. As per below ASME interpretation code does not allow SA 105 material as tubesheet. 2012 at 10:41am · Like Hemant Solanki SA 105 and SA 266 SA-105 is the specification for carbon steel forgings for piping application. 2012 at 7:13am · Like Madhusudhan Shetty I am also of the opinion that 347H. 1.Facebook . 2012 at 10:39am · Like Madhusudhan Shetty stabilsed grade can be used for the temperature. Interpretation: VIII-1-89-178 Subject: Section VIII.5 in pressure Classes 150 through 600 be utilized as heat exchanger tubesheets for Section VIII. And if operating temperature is less than the temperature referring to time dependent properties.1 of SA-105 for scope limitation. 2012 at 12:17pm via Email Mitul Patel Dear all. idont think eqpt is fired heater . 1990 File: BC90-224 Question: May forged SA-105 blind flanges complying with ANSI B16. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 5. Can anybody share advantages of using SA 266 material over SA 105. This specification is applicable for tubesheets. Division 1 construction provided that both flange and tubesheet calculations are performed to verify that the thickness and bolting meet the requirement of the Code? Reply: No.. SA-105 Date Issued: March 20. Even though stress values are same ASME has differentiated these two specs for different heat treatment and manufacturing requirements for these specs as both are in use for different applications.September 5. As per its scope demarcation it shall be limited upto 4540 Kg weight and shall not be used for Tubesheets application.September 1. Page 266 of 390 Purav Desai Hemant. (See para.) Static Equipment Group . SS347H etc…. SS321 can be used else it is general practice to use H grade of SS materials in fired equipments like SS321H. SA-266 is introduced for forging used for pressure vessel application. Division 1 (1989 Edition). I am quite sure that 645 ºC design temperature is referring to some fired equipment. fired heater is generally 850 deg c…September 5.

heat treatment are different.. The steel is heated to above its upper critical temperature and quickly immersed in fresh water or brine to achieve rapid setting of the desired metallurgical structure. 2012 at 10:15am · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari W means welded C castable Hemant Solanki SA-216 is steel flange and fitting specification for Steel Castings. 2012 at 7:05pm Hemant Solanki SA-105 is the specification for carbon steel forgings for piping application. normalized. Simply as tubesheets are not piping components they have excluded it from here. The tempering process is. Suitable for Fusion Welding for High-Temperature Service.September 25..Weldable cast B. Hemant Solanki Q/T vs N/T QUENCHING AND TEMPERING Oriented toward carbide steels such as carbon-moly. 2012 at 9:58am Rahul Chavan Yes.September 9. in effort.Facebook .September 8. quickly followed by a tempering period in a fired furnace in order to soften the martensitic structure and achieve the desired mechanical properties in the material including a desired measure of ductility. 2012 at 5:38am · Like · 1 Mihir Jha What does W and C states for SA-216 WCB material ? Is it wrought carbon? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 25. Even though stress values are same ASME has differentiated these two specs for different heat treatment and manufacturing requirements for these specs as both are in use for different applications…. 2012 at 8:53pm · Like Purav Desai Very rightly said by Hemnat. if you refer SA-105 specification in Sec. C stands for Casting and W stands for Fusion Welding. As per its scope demarcation it shall be limited upto 4540 Kg weight and shall not be used for Tubesheets application. heat treatment is not mandatory for all SA-105 components whereas SA-266 forgings must undergo either annealed. Carbon. it is correct. a stress relieving process. Page 267 of 390 Please share your views. Oil quenching is sometimes used. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 1. this process is designed to enhance toughness as well as controlling yield strength and ultimate tensile strength of steel.Grade carbon steel…. or normalized and tempered heat treatment…….-II. Another meaning of WCB . The usual practice is to quench until cooling reaches around 800oF. SA-266 is introduced for forging used for pressure vessel application. This specification is applicable for tubesheets. NORMALIZING AND TEMPERING Static Equipment Group .

Only this makes the difference between A 333 and A 106 pipe. Page 268 of 390 This process is used for virtually the same purposes as quenching and tempering. Moreover compared to other grades it is fine grain steel and (I think) bit cheap compared to 333 Grade 1 ( only Gr 1 and 6 follow strict chemical composition) Above said is my small analysis from my limited study. 2012 at 1:16pm · Like Hemant Solanki I think its Manganese which provides low temperature suitability to this material. Kumar Kashyap but manganese is also present in SA -106 B.refer ASME Sec 2 Part A. it is not the element that makes it suitable for LT service. A 333 forheat process used.October 4.. may be used by itself or the material may be subjected to a controlled furnace tempering process in order to better control desired mechanical properties. whether intentionally or unintentionally added. but it is not for low temperature service….e A 106 Gr B.6. if used.. 2012 at 6:07pm · Like Hemant Solanki It has to be impact tested @ -50 F to be classified as SA333 Gr. otherwise mechanical properties of the material may be adversely affected. Fine grain in LTCS is achieved by Combination of heat treatment during pipe manufacturing process . where as A 106 is coarse grain steel. It differs in that normalizing is accomplished by cooling in air in place of fast quenching in a liquid. subsequent stress relieving temperature..e A 333 Gr 6 with High temperature Carbon steel i. Kumar Kashyap As per my understanding. Steel manufacturers will furnish material in either of the above conditions when so specified on the purchase order or as required by the material specification.October 4. unwanted materials like vanadium. there is no major difference in chemical composition. Air normalizing.) as per ASTM specification that makes it suitabale for LT service…. alloyed steel mechanical properties are ultimately determined by the tempering process and if the materials are subsequently welded during fabrication.. As a cautionary note. should not exceed that of the tempering process. Others can add. Also In ASTM A 333 Gr 6.Facebook . A 333 is fine grain steel. Niobium. Hemant Solanki If we compare Low temperature Carbon steel i. cobalt etc are not present. Copper. The difference is grain size. Fine grain steel posses good impact properties when compared to coarse grain steel. much slower than liquid quenching. MTR would have to show the results. It is the different heat treatment process (normalizing etc. Hemant Solanki SA 333 Gr 6 Which element makes SA 333 Gr 6 to use for low temperature condition ? Kumar Kashyap likes this. Static Equipment Group .

Facebook .g -0. it affects weldability through formation of low melting embrittling compounds which solidifies in the grain boundaries.04% or even below.. The client has rejected our justifiaction. the client has specified to use SA-516-70 (Min. Pressure vessel and high strength structural steels even restrict "P" to further lower limits. Beyond the range specified below. We have opted expanded PTFE but in past project 'White Silicon' gasket was used. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 3. If anybody have any information on 'White silicon' gasket then please share... This leads to commonly known solidification cracks e. known as temper embrittlement manifested as significant reduction in impact strength. 2012 at 11:27am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki uploaded a file. we are proposing to use the structural steel (SA-36) for flare stack. However it's effect on weldability is terrible.." Hence. What will be it's m & y value?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 29. Phosphorus in weldable steel Why Phosphorus is very low in weldable steel ( 0.)..g "hot cracks". SA-516/515-Gr 60/70 is generally used for pressure part for pressure vessel. 2012 at 10:34am via Email Manish Shukla for acetic acid applications flexitalic LSI OR equivalents can be used October 29.Sb& S causes significant embrittlement. Static Equipment Group . Also "P" in addition to As. ? How it affect weldability ? Phosphorus to a limited extent increases the machinability of steel. Ourjustifcation " Flare stack is a structural member open to atmosphere and therefore it is not considered to be pressure vessel. e. 2012 at 10:58am Mihir Jha For flare stack (18 m Height X 6 m Dia) which is lined with refractory. Page 269 of 390 October 7.05 Maximum ). 2012 at 11:59am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Gasket MOC for acetic acid service Can anyone tell suitable gasket MOC for acetic acid service.

Further. A material would be invulnerable to a sudden drop in notch-toughness at the lowest specified service (or design) temperature. it can generate local hot spot on the shell material and if temperature exceeds 343ºC.3. The above requirements can be met easily with SA 516 material. I believe that SA-36 can not be used…. Body centered cubic or Ferritic alloys exhibit a significant transition in behavior when impact tested over a range of temperatures. Page 270 of 390 Could you please provide any other advantage apart from cost to use SA-36 over SA-516- 70? Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 25. 2012 at 3:48pm via mobile Hemant Solanki You may know carbon steels and low alloy steels exhibit a drastic change in their room temperature ductility. the impact test specimens are found to fracture in a brittle (cleavage) manner. which should be a matter of concern for us. if only be proved by conducting Charpy V-notch Impact tests on representative test samples. if NACE MR0103 or NACE MR0175 is applicable shell material shall be procured accordingly.).October 26. phenomenal drop in their notch-toughness properties below the "transition" range of temperature. Gases diverted to stack are corrosive in nature (H2S. the fracture is a mixture of ductile and brittle nature. impact specimens fracture in a "ductile" manner. it can have detrimental effect on shell material. 2012 at 4:14pm via · Like Rajesh Deswal Static Equipment Group .November 2. Above transition temperature range. email November 19. SA-36 can not work there. 2012 at 3:22pm · Like Purav Desai I do agree with Madhusudhan Shetty. Sox. at reference (the lowest service) temperature. Also if refractory fails. absorbing less energy. If refractory fails. 2012 at 11:41am · Like AkilKazi This may be as shared by everybody considering the scenario of refractory failure case when metal may get exposed to sulfur rich gases which may require steel with less impurity….Facebook . Nox etc. 2012 at 10:47am · Like Madhusudhan Shetty 6 m dia is it a flare stack or Incinerator chimney stack.C can used for flare stack…October 26. Thanks Puav&Madhusudhan Shetty…. And within the transition temperature range.. absorbing relatively large amounts of energy. 2012 at 4:47pm · Like · 1 Arpita Shah what is the meaning of nil ductility transition temp? where it is applicable? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 19. Any further information will be shared. Flare MOC selection should take care of refractory failure case as described in API 537 2008 C.November 9. And hence.e. We can see there is a sudden. At lower temperatures. I have never seen SA-36 to complying NACE requirements.3. below the transition temperature range.November 1. i. Different types of materials exhibit different types of transition behavior. 2012 at 6:29pm · Like Mihir Jha The discussion is still going on with client about SA-36 or SA-516-70. 2012 at 2:24pm Sanjay Rathod SA 283 Gr. Grain refined carbon steel forgings and wrought materials (thoroughly worked and normalized) generally exhibit good notch toughness. at sub -zero service temperatures. Further we cannot use structural steel since the flare will be operating at elevated temperature and sometimes based on the plant exhaust if H2S is present in the gas SA 36 cannot be used.

Further. However. 2012 at 10:34pm · Like Chetan Raval For one of our recent project .November 29. 2012 at 12:04pm Purav Desai Dear Rajesh. Is it possible to provide the flange material A 694 F52 as it is not listed in ASME Sec II for code stamped vessel? Like · · Follow Post · Share · November 29. Shall tubes also meet requirement of NACE MR0103. Please share ur views.. Page 271 of 390 If vendor is using 316Ti instead of 316L in a vessel. Tube side fluid is cooling water & shell side fluid is sour water..November 27. If operating temp limit of your equipment is above 600° and then 321 is preffered option. as per me. 2012 at 3:51pm · Like Mihir Jha As per project requirement.Facebook . it is not listed in table UCS-23.. So with use of 316L we ensure that chromium is not depleting during welding and fabrication process. there are no special requirements in NACE MR 0103 for tubes. is there any risk of inter-crystalline corrosion? Medium is crude silane (group of silicon hydrides that are analogous to the paraffin hydrocarbons) Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 26... 2012 at 10:25am Mohamed Hussein likes this. Only thing is 316Ti have 2% Ti in it. 316L and 316Ti have same Cr-Ni content. NACE MR 0103 is applicable to tubes/tubesheet/baffles/tie rods/spacers. The vessel is U Stamped. Otherwise 316L can be use upto 450°C.November 26. That‟s why we prefers 321 grade which is having 10% Ti in it. the companion flanges at the quipment nozzle shall be as per piping flange which is connected to the equipment. Which generates enough Ti-Carbide to protect Chromium in solution.08% carbon & additional alloying elementTitanium. hereNace MR0103 is applicable for shell side. 2012 at 9:27am · Like Chetan Raval thanks purav. 2012 at 6:10pm · Like Hemant Solanki 316Ti can be use at max temp of 600-900°C. Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 11. SS316Ti contains 0. We prefers 316L due to its low carbon content which prevents formation of chromium carbide. 2012 at 8:38pm · Like Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 11:24pm Purav Desai Yes.hence u cant use it for U stamp vessel…. But with only 2% Ti it will not form Titanium Carbide in such amount that it protects chromium and due to which 316Ti will not be useful much to prevent IGC.December 16. If 316Ti is using then just ensure that with 2%Ti you will get IGC resistance application during fabrication of equipment…. So in your case you just need to make sure that SS 316 is suitable for the process medium (crude silane) and if SS316 is ok then SS316Ti can be used instead of SS316L…. Titanium is added to stainless steel to stabilize the precipitation of chromium carbide. The piping flange as per piping material class is A 694 F52.December 13.. Also 316L grade will not be in use above 450°C. Chetan Raval pleas refer UCS-5 of ASME SEC VIII DIV 1. SS 316Ti is better material than SS 316L when we talk @ intergranullar corrosion. we have Alloy28(UNS N08028) material for tubes.

December 21. Share this article in MTB if possible. It has a good resistance to chloride induced SCC so what is the benifit for use of this tube material compared duplex ss.5Mo Steel Pressure Vessels.25 Cr materials and SA-387 Gr. there was one standard API 943 High Temperature Crude Oil Corrosivity Studies.facebook.com/groups/staticequipment/permalink/450099175024779/ Abhishek Salgaonkar In one of my project. Has anyone come across the tube MOC SMO 254..The correct code may be API RP 934-C. we go for duplex and then non ferrous.5S or 10S.25 Cr-0. Thanks a lot for sharing this.. Please guide me for design point of view as i am not finding allowable for seamless tube SA 213 UNS 31254 in ASME.12.if your material is SA-387 Gr. There are couple of factors associated with the use of 254 SMO material. there is one technical report API TR 934 D.2 material client has suggested to follow the material and fabrication requirement as API RP 943-C.. i think we can apply seamless pipe with Sch. So please double check before applying..December 21..5Mo and 1Cr-0... 2012 at 8:12am via mobile Purav Desai Dear Viral.Please advice Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 20.. But it was withdrawn in 1991. Your understanding is correct... Page 272 of 390 Viral Patel Dear all. For tubes 1" and above.For SA 387 Gr.. I also did not find any code like API RP 943.December 21.Facebook .. then even API RP 934-C is not applicable because 934-C is only for 1.https://www. Refer below link for more detail. Further.. 904L and Nickel Alloys. So this can be useful to you. Technical Report on the Materials and Fabrication Issues of 1. 2012 at 6:57pm · Like Purav Desai Long ago. Also..when there is a high chloride content .12 material has 1 Cr. 2012 at 4:29pm Purav Desai Dear Abhishek. we already discussed @ allowable stress for S31254 tubes. 2012 at 7:00pm · Like Purav Desai What is significance of "Ferrite Number (FN)" in welding of stainless steel? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · January 25 at 1:03pm near Seoul. I didn't find allowable stress in ASME for seamless tube material.. As per my opinion. But I didnt find such a code in API.December 21. Refer the attched fantastic article. 2012 at 8:30am · Like · 1 Viral Patel Puravbhai. it explains all the features of 254 SMO and compares it with SS316L. It is baically austenitic stainless steel UNS 31254.Has anybody came across the API RP 943- C.. 2012 at 9:46am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Hi Viral. Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 21. South Korea Static Equipment Group .12 Cl.

.January 26 at 12:51pm · Like Mihir Jha While reviewing the datasheet for column internals. has been adopted as a relative measure for quantifying ferrite content using standardized magnetic techniques. a weld metal with 16 FN contains approximately 13.January 25 at 2:11pm · Like Purav Desai Yes. The FN approach was developed in order to reduce the large variation in ferrite levels determined on a given specimen when measured using different techniques by different laboratories. Incoloy 800. and ferrite scope.. It is a precisely measurable quantity that is roughly proportional to the actual volume percentage of ferrite at room temperature WRC-1992 DIAGRAM PREDICTING FERRITE CONTENT IN STAINLESS STEELS..Facebook . Page 273 of 390 Hemant Solanki The term Ferrite Number. WHERE 100 FN IS APPROXIMATELY EQUAL TO 65 VOL% FERRITE. Severn gage. designated FN. Static Equipment Group . FERRITE CONTENT IS GIVEN BY THE FERRITE NUMBER (FN).8 vol%. Inconel 600.. FN approximates the "volume percent ferrite" at levels below 8 FN.. including the Magne gage.. Above this level. deviation occurs. i found a note " S.... II-B. but what is its significance? Does it have something to do with IGC/Chromium Carbide formation in SS during welding and does it indicates any effects properties of SS?. Please take care of below requirement of ASME Sec.February 2 at 8:29pm · Like Purav Desai Minimum U bend radius for Nickel alloy tubes conforming to SB-163. This covers Monel. For example. where the FN value exceeds the actual volume percent ferrite.S material which may come in with C. A number of instruments are commercially available for determining the ferrite content of welds. Incoloy 800H and Incoloy 825.S is to be separated by insulating pads in order to prevent corrosion". SB-163 for Nickel alloy U tubes applied for heat exchangers. What is the impact of this note? Like · · Follow Post · Share · January 29 at 4:30am Madhusudhan Shetty CS in contact with SS are avoided to prevent Galvanic corrosion.

.3 times of tube OD……March 29 at 4:13pm via mobile · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar We have encountered the problem for the same forduplex tubes........so during fabrication of u bend. like conventional cases bend radius like 1.March 29 at 4:08pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I have observed the same for titanium and duplex tubes in shell dep...for duplex tubes minimun u bend radius specified is 1.March 29 at 4:16pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam CORRECT SO PROCESS TO CHANGE THE TUBELAYOUT.0 times of Tube OD for all tube OD's .March 29 at 11:46am · Like Hemant Nikam Mr...even the tube thickness is sufficient as per TEMA calculation for u bend…..March 29 at 4:18pm · Like Static Equipment Group .Given limitation is for the minimum only so we can not take as per standard practice 1....Facebook ..shell DEP says minimum u bend radius for titanium and duplex shall be 3... Kiran Gawade and 2 others like this.in one of our project..2. Purav Desai For cases falls above... if anybody noticed share it….5 times of tube od but its thickness is less....5. Page 274 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 29 at 11:45am Ramdas Kadam. Purav Thanks for sharing ....5 Tube OD or 2 Tube OD may not work for all the cases….vendor came out with query that they are not able to meet the requirement as the tube cracks while bending.IF THEY STICK ON THICKNESS BCAS OF THERMAL PERFORMANCE….INNERMOST TUBE C--C DISTANCE GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM LIMIT...Also I noticed no one PMC/Client specification specified for the SB 163 minimum U bend radius limit ....

. Nirav Kindly refer the below ****************** CHEMICAL COMPOSITION OF SS304 AND SS316 .N etc).March 31 at 1:51am · Like · 1 Purav Desai Hi Nirav.316.03 1... is S31600 and so Static Equipment Group .0 - SS316-0.302.if u want to use the less band radius then you have to increase the thickness of tube for innnermost rows as per table 5….0-20..0 10..0-14..Nb. But my question is regarding assigning the name as "SS316" .24mm and stress relived only. FOR HIGHER WE HAVE TO CHECK THE THINNING <17%..*****************…March 27 at 11:48pm · Like Nirav Desai yes.0-3.347.Ti.0 8.0 2..no need to increase the layout….0 16.). you r right ..045 0.0 0..303..317..it is simple numbering of austenitic stainless steel grades given by increasing and decreasing of the alloying elements.SO WE HAVE TO MANITAIN THE MINIMUM CONDITION.. I am new to this group.are availlable in markets some the intermittent grades are not commonly used and deleted from the 300 series of austenitic steel..so u cannot use 1.SS301. Page 275 of 390 Rohitash Singh Panwar Tube thickness for innermost tube row is increased and thermal is checked for increase tube thickness.March 29 at 4:23pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam CORRECT SOLUTION BUT PROCESS TO CHECK.0 18... BUT PROCESS ACCOMODATE MAXIMUM NOS OF U TUBES IN SAME SHELL ID.5% 'Moly'..321. I had a question regarding nomenclature of the steels and special metals (like why ss316 or ss304.C.FOR EFFECTIVENESS OF THAT TUBE ROW.March 29 at 4:51pm · Like Nirav Desai Hello everyone. C Mn P S Si Cr Ni Mo SS304-0...The answer is yes.Now the question arises that we are paying double money for SS316 only for that 2.(LESSER THAN THE MINIMUM RADIUS CONDITION)…...0-18..which is 4 times tube od...March 27 at 11:59pm · Like Hemant Nikam Austenitic steels 300 series starts from 01 to 99 so the last two digits of nos are not related to chemical composition as well as with any mechanical property.0 **************************************** From the above chemical composition chart we can see the main difference between SS304 and SS316 is that SS316 contains 2%-3% molybdenum and SS304 has no molybdenum. I found following on internet....6... Can anyone help me on that? Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 26 at 7:56pm Hemant Nikam Dear Mr.Facebook . There is an ASTM standard to fix up UNS numbers..take one example for tube od as 25..045 0.08 2.NOT MAXIMUM.0-10... because this "molybdenum" is added to improve the corrosion resistance to chlorides (like sea water).March 29 at 4:27pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam YES LIMIT IS FOR MINIMUM .March 29 at 4:25pm · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar I think purav is right.305..0 0.03 1.That is why in coastal area plants SS316 is used...304...... 1 and 6 denotes something?......5 times or 2 times bend radius for that thickness.then as per table minimum od is 101. is 3..310.Ni. is it based on composition or something else.08 2. Cr. UNS numbers are simillar to grade of stanless steel like for SS316 UNS no.4 and thickness as 1..

http://img03. Ex.For Duplex SS last four digits but it somewhere matched Ex. for UNS S31600 for this commonly used alloy name is Grade 316 and for N08904 is grade 904L.April 5 at 1:46am · Like Static Equipment Group .. UNS S32304 alloy Name is SAF2304 .com/wz/uploaded/steel/2009/09/09/File/tgpdf/ASTM%20E527- 83.S32750 Alloy name is SAF2507 which is not matching as above..April 2 at 1:54am · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam For details refer my post file SS Grades dated 03/04/2013…..pdf…April 1 at 11:49am · Like · 1 Hemant Nikam For Austenitic SS group relationship of the UNS no and commonly used Alloy name for sulphur series are first 3 digits and for nitrogen series last 3 digits.mysteelcdn..Facebook . Page 276 of 390 on.

Page 277 of 390 Hemant Nikam Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

Naming System: NACE XX 00 00 NACE MR0175 means “MR” stands for “Material Requirements” “01” indicates it was the first “Material Requirements” standard issued in 1975 by NACE “75” stands for the year 1975 This scheme is used for all NACE standards. but the name of the society was changed to “NACE International” several years ago to signify the international scope of NACE membership and activities. which include “TM” means Test Methods “RP” means Recommended Practices “SP” means Standard Recommended Practices **NACE is in the process of changing the designations RP to SP.Facebook . Use the equivalent SP document when it is issued. in terms of environmental composition and pH. ********************************************** NACE Standards used in Sour Service: ******************************** NACE MR01-75 / ISO 15156 – “Materials for use in H2S-containing environments in oil and gas production”. NACE TM02-84 – “Evaluation of pipeline and pressure vessels steels for resistance to hydrogen induced cracking”. temperature and H2S partial pressure Static Equipment Group . ********************************************** NACE-MR-0175:-Objectives: ************************************************** 1)To establish limits of H2S partial pressure for precautions against sulfide stress cracking (SSC) 2)To provide guidance for the selection and specification of SSC-resistant materials when the H2S thresholds were exceeded 3)To provide application limits for some corrosion-resistant alloys. NACE TM01-77 – “Laboratory testing of metals for resistant to sulfide stress cracking and stress cracking in H2S environments”. NACE MR01-03 – “Materials Resistant to Sulfide Stress Cracking in Corrosive Petroleum Refining Environments”. Page 278 of 390 *************************************** What is NACE? ********************************* NACE used to stands for the “National Association of Corrosion Engineers”.

III.As UHX tube sheet design is same in both users do tube sheet as per Div.Please take care for SA-179…. Similarly. Ramdas Kadam and 3 others like this. Mitul Patel Compress also does not have heat exchanger module for Div.there are few exchanger which are to be designed as per Division II. Reason for error: As we had designed the exchanger in Aspen Tech software.1.We had also considered the same tube material and design the exchanger in Aspen Tech software and release the engineering drawing with SA 179 as a tube material. Purav Desai. Sachin Pawar and 16 others like this.23% as required by specification..Facebook . SA-179 is not allowed in ASME Sec-I & Sec.April 24 at 7:33am via mobile · Like · 1 Purav Desai Good one Rohitash. ASME Section-I is for Power Boilers. During the vendor drawing review. Indian Boiler Regulations (IBR) Static Equipment Group . Page 279 of 390 4)To provide requirements and recommendations for materials qualification and selection for safe application in environments containing wet H2S in oil and gas production systems *************************************************** Like · · Follow Post · Share · March 6 at 1:08pm Arpita Shah. Summary: SA 179 tube material is not permitted as per ASME Sec VIII Division II and we have to check the specified material for all the component of Division II equipments as per Table 5A of ASME Sec II part D to avoid such kind of error which lead to problem at later stage.thanks April 23 at 7:33am · Like Rohitash Singh Panwar Learning of a current project for carbon steel tube metallurgy for Division 2 equipment. we had changed the tube material at vendor drawing review stage to SA-210 A1 with the limitation on carbon percentage to 0. In one of our ongoing project. In india for vessel/exchangers in steam generation service. As the material is not permitted as per Div II.But such error can be happened because software use material database of Div. Purav Desai.They are developing. which doesn't take care of allowed material as per Division II as Pvelite does. vendor has came up with the query that SA 179 material is not permitted in Div 2 as per table 5A of ASME Sec II part . During feed stage . Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 23 at 11:05pm Arpita Shah. Sandeep Wadhwani very good information in short.1.2 as of now.. the tube material selected for Division II exchanger was SA 179.

So thorough inspection is required after lining to ensure it is applied uniformly over the surface. 291.like cost. Cladding and weld overlay? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 26 at 5:12am near Seoul. IBR is simillar to ASME Sec. 290. Weld over lay is deposition of ss by melting it at done at fabricator shops mainly used for nozzles.all answer are really enough to understand exactly…. After welding that removed portion is again repaired by means of weld overlay….single layer method is fast and economic. Liner is sandwich. As we know that while joining cladded plates it is required to remove cladded portion in order to have FPW weld..but certain wps and pqr needs to be qualified and require client approval…. Bender. Cladding is cheese pizza.... Hope this clarifies….. Page 280 of 390 is applicable. Cladding is process by which we can make readymade plates with SS sheets bonded over CS or LAS base.April 26 at 5:38am via mobile · Like Purav Desai Also refer Book on Pressure Vessel Design by Henry H. South Korea VuppalaGopinath Lining is a liner which is inside the CD portion which will be tack welded etc.April 26 at 4:12pm · Like Sandeep Wadhwani Thanks to all.3 (page no..April 26 at 3:39pm via mobile · Like · 2 Hemant Solanki All 3 are different methods of using SS shield over CS or LAS base metal.....Facebook .April 25 at 7:39am · Like Sandeep Wadhwani Dear All... 292....i think now i will never forget these.April 26 at 3:25pm via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Layman language. Chapter 11 sub part 11. Latest overlay process is being used in industry is ESSC ( Electro slag strip cladding)... Lining is just like applying painting over a internal surface of vessel.. Weld overlay is SS built up over the welded joints.e rolled or explosion bonded clad plate and weld overlay method. Could you tell me what is the exact difference between Lining. There are many factors over selecting either clad or weld overlay.. time.... I because both codes are for boilers. And thats why some of the Indian consultants doesnot allow use of SA-179 wheree IBR is appli a le…April 24 at 10:52am · Like · 3 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Just asking on curiosity? Does getting a certified UDS at the begining of the job help in avoiding this kind of issues..April 26 at 3:02pm · Like Patel Sudhir Now a days liner is not being used in pressure vessel industry.it can be done using single layer or double layer method...now only two methods are being used in industries for the corrosion resistace purpose i. Of course this question is restricted to U2 job only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... 293)….almost it is outdated. material availabilities and also some time fabrication methods.. Cladding is done at the mills where ass plate is joined to the cs portion by explosion bonding etc. Weld over lay is jam on bread....April 26 at 7:26pm · Like Static Equipment Group .

Sulfide stress cracking (SSC). Page 281 of 390 1) Hemant Nikam **************************************************** WHAT IS SOUR SERVICE ??? *Exposure to oilfield environments that contain H2S and can cause cracking of material by the following mechanisms. ***************** Soft Zone Cracking (SZC) ******************** Form of SSC that may occur when contains a local “Soft Zone” of low yield strength material. ***************** Stress Oriented Hydrogen Induced Cracking (SOHIC) ****************************************** Staggered small cracks formed approximately perpendicular to the principle stress resulting in a “ladder-like crack” array linking pre-existing HIC cracks. Soft zone cracking (SZC). Stress corrosion cracking (SCC). **************** Stepwise Cracking (SWC) ******************** Cracking that connects hydrogen induced cracks on adjacent planes in steel. ********************************************************** Hydrogen Induced Cracking (HIC) *************************** Planar cracking that occurs in carbon and low alloy steels when atomic hydrogen diffuses into the steel and then combines to form molecular hydrogen at trap sites.Facebook . Galvanically-induced hydrogen stress cracking(GHSC). **************** Sulfide Stress Cracking (SSC) *********************** Cracking of metal involving corrosion and tensile stress in the presence of water and H2S. Stepwise cracking (SWC). **************** Stress Corrosion Cracking (SCC) ************************* Cracking of metal involving anodic process of localized corrosion and tensile stress in the presence of water and H2S. ****************** Galvanized Induced Hydrogen Stress Cracking (GHSC) Static Equipment Group . ***************************************************** Hydrogen-induced cracking (HIC). Stress-oriented hydrogen-induced cracking (SOHIC).

induced in the cathode of a galvanic of a galvanic couple. 3) Often contain chlorides. which can cause chloride-ion stress corrosion cracking. 5)Test Method NACE TM 0284 ***************************************************************** NACE MR01-03 ************** 1)Equipment for Downstream processes unit./Li censor Whether the equipment is use for downstream or upstream. 4)Seldom contain chlorides of CO. Static Equipment Group . 6)Test Method NACE TM0177 ******************************************************************** Conclusion From Above **** If H2S service with MR0103 mentioned in any Equipment Process Datasheet and MOC is CS Please Confirm from Process Dept. ******************** Hydrogen Stress Cracking (HSC) ************************** Cracking that results from the presence of hydrogen in a metal and tensile stress (residual and/or applied).Facebook . 5))Other Sour services where no brine or salt water is present. 2)Often contain dissolved ammonia. ******************************************************************** DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MR01-75 / ISO 15156 & MR01-03 ******************************************************************** One of the key differences between the MR0175 and MR0103 Standards lies in the guidelines addressing the environmental conditions under which SSC is likely to occur. ******************************************************************** If anybody have different View Please share it.availability of water (Wet /Dry H2S) in Process fluid and as well Confirm SSC is required or HIC is required for CS Plate Material. Page 282 of 390 ************************ Cracking that results due to presence of hydrogen in a metal.It is cost and time related matter. and tensile stress. ***************************************************************** NACE MR01-75 ********* 1)Equipment for Upstream 2) Often contain CO2.which causes low PH. 4) The presence of brine or saltwater introduces the additional issue of Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking (SCC). 3)Often contain cyanides.

Ramdas Kadam.May 1 at 12:32pm · Like Hemant Solanki Sour service requirements shall be followed for tubes and tubesheets (common elements)…. Avinash Araj and 4 others like this..May 1 at 12:28pm · Like Arpita Shah MOC is same for shell side and tube side….. Hemant Solanki i think at least common elements MOC shall be selected as per stringent service….May 1 at 12:33pm · Like Arpita Shah but shell side liquid is crude oil & tube side is LP steam…May 1 at 12:35pm · Like Static Equipment Group . 2) Arpita Shah Is it necessary that if shell side liquid is sour service than tube side is also considered as a sour service? B'coz client made a comment that tube outer side is contact with shell side sour fluid. Page 283 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 30 at 2:04am Purav Desai.Facebook . Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 1 at 12:26pm 2 people like this.

May 29 at 9:39am via mobile · Like · 2 Purav Desai Partially agree with Mrudang Mehta. better to consult the Material Engg and confirm whether the Epoxy requirement was result of catholic protection requirement or due to corrosive nature of service…. galvanic cell must form first and for this there must be presence of anode. For cathodic protection. Page 284 of 390 Mrudang Mehta Arpita. Else internal catholic protection will call for sacrificial anodes which is mostly avoided. My query is .. hence it shall meet the NACE requirements…. Internal Surface shall be protected from corrosion as per KOC standard " Cathodic Protection Of Internal Surfaces of Steel Tanks & Vessels".May 1 at 1:37pm via mobile · Like Patel Sudhir Yes tube is a wetted parts for the shell. The MOC is CS and is internally lined with PHENOLIC EPOXY.Facebook . I understand that both Ss and TS must be CS. if yes then check is there any dissimilar Static Equipment Group . But as Hemant pointed the MoC of Tubes. as its name says we have to protect the cathode but for cathode to corrode. Hence. I am doing some horizontal vessel which is in sour service. in this case it should be checked whether there is water present in the process fluid. I think two points are getting mixed here. do the vessel which is internally lined with Phenolic Epoxy require Cathodic Protection? Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 29 at 8:08am Mrudang Mehta I understand that to take care of requirement of internal catholic protection. Requirement of internal coating is defined by many licensors now days to cater to corrosion due to sour environment (H2S service). Hence I think if epoxy lining is considered. phenolic epoxy lining is considered.May 1 at 3:17pm · Like · 1 Arpita Shah thanks to all of you…. additional catholic protection should not be required. cathode and electrolyte. Electrolyte should be something from which electrons (current) can flow.May 1 at 2:00pm · Like KevalGarud yes tube material should satisfy the sour service requirements…. Anode and cathode can be two dissimilar materials. As per KOC pressure vessel spec.May 1 at 4:11pm · Like 3) Mihir Jha Dear All. tube sheet and shell ( where ever shell fluid is in touch) must follow NACE requirements…. Commonly known electrolyte is Water. Still to be sure.

So. corrosion allowance is required to take care of very high corrosion.pdf. sometime if the coating gets peeled off during operation then it can become local spot for corrosion. Refer your job spec for your project if they are using lining means higher corrosion expected so u have to use CP. However.May 29 at 10:38am · Like · 4 Krishna Desai If vessel is subjected to very heavy corrosive service (Oil + gas + water). Hence it is better to have Corrosion allowance + Cathodic protection + internal lining/coating specially for the main separation equipments where initial separation of crude oil will take place &Hazardeous drain tanks. But I remember somewhere that to avoid internal catholic protection. lining was provided. Anyways this is more of Material Engg. Page 285 of 390 material in contact with water.Facebook . licensor used to provide minimal corrosion allowance (3 mm) + Internalcathodic protection to take care corrosion problem.e.. 2nd stage & test separators) are having the same combinations of corrsion protection…May 29 at 11:03am · Like Suraj Kr Tiwari If your vessel is of CS then you have to condider CP no matter water is there or nor. However this should be taken care during application of internal coating i. application of coating with newly developed techniques and coating type and thickness should be selected accordingly.nace-jubail..May 29 at 2:06pm via mobile · Like · 1 AbijithKuruvath Refer to cathodic protection requirement spec of KOC for applicability of CP!. cathodic protection will not ensure protection of 100% surface of vessel. Refer below article by NACE which talks @ internal coating for protection of vessel.May 29 at 2:04pm via mobile · Like Mrudang Mehta Krishna and Purav. If all these are present then only cathodic protection is required. Since some of debris & dirt particals will accumulate near to cathodic Nozzles and over the time cathodic protection system will become ineffective. http://www. where very high corrosion is anticipated…. Nice replies.completely agree with you guys. There are to many othres reason also like chemical used during operating life for cleaning or CA inhibitor can also play role of electrolyte. and we need to follow Process Datasheet and Material Selection Report….May 29 at 10:59am · Like · 2 Krishna Desai In one of the current OFFSHORE project.. Also. main separators (1st stage. Subsequently high corrosion allowance will further increase weight and cost of equipment..org/Meetings/HATCON%20Presentation.May 29 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . In some cases like tanks which prone to higher corrosion we uses FRP AS TANK MOC BUT IN CASE OF PRESSURE VESSEL AS TOLD BY krishnadesai….

What could be the reason you wanted Duplex Bolting.machined from duplex rod or forging ….June 26 at 11:52pm via mobile · Like RanaprioSarkar SA 479…June 27 at 6:07pm · Like 5) KewalKareliya hello guys I want know to meaning behind material number in ASME eg.. Prabhakar Harikrishnan You can go for B7 or B7M…..Facebook .. If we are using.. Page 286 of 390 Viral Patel Agree with mrudangmehta. but client specs should be followed……May 29 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like 4) Susan Shrestha what is suitable duplex bolting material for flange SA182F51? Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 26 at 10:14pm via mobile Prashant Purkar likes this. pls share if any one have info.. Is that you use Duplex Flange or site requirement??. A stand for ASTM what does 105 means ??y 105. Duplex Flange. It can be either B8 or B8M. SS would be sufficient. krishnadesai&puravdesai. Though cathodic protection is not reqd.June 26 at 10:49pm via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan As such there is no Bolting in Duplex.we can use machined bolt . Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 26 at 8:28am via mobile Tanvir Alam likes this. Static Equipment Group .June 26 at 10:51pm · Like Veera Mani if u want duplex bolt.. SA 105 where S stand for ASME.June 26 at 10:44pm · Like Susan Shrestha do u have any reference for duplex booting….

for use in ASME construction.Facebook . those revisions may or may not have any effect on the suitability of material. Suitability is generally determined by a set of chemical composition requirements and well defined mechanical property requirements. there is obvious pressure for ASTM to make the necessary changes to make their standards more acceptable..June 28 at 2:29am · Like Arpita Shah Hello everyone. For nonferrous materials. When such specifications are not suitable. In the 1945 addenda. The S-number procedure for identifying Section II materials was replaced in the 1943 edition with a direct reference to the ASTM Specifications. all materials were listed by an SA. was revised to SA-105.June 26 at 5:56pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran In SA. as per ASTM…June 26 at 5:42pm via mobile · Like KewalKareliya thnx a lot guys. We should check in ASTM standards in detail for this specification…. The S-designation system was maintained.or SB- number…. but an ASTM Specification number was added after the S. This close association between ASTM and the ASME Code has been going on since the 1920s or about 75 years. S-8. A stands for ferrous and when you see B next to S in the specification then it means it is non ferrous…. So it is ASTM who decides this specifications number. You rightly mentioned that S stand for ASME. Static Equipment Group . the S-number was replaced with an SB before the ASTM B-number.June 26 at 3:57pm · Like Umesh Wani It's a manufacturing process no. However..June 26 at 3:15pm · Like Hemant Solanki One more information I found is earlier SA 105 was identifying as S-8. Please tell me the forging material as per ASME for 70/30-Cu-Ni composition. for instance. Excerpts follow: “Revisions to material specifications are originated by the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) and other recognized national or international organizations. A stand for ASTM. The Foreword to the various Code sections also contains information relative to the evolution of ASME materials specifications. Page 287 of 390 Hemant Solanki Have a note that it is specification number not material number. and are usually adopted by ASME. ASME materials specifications are currently based on ASTM materials specifications that have been reviewed and approved by the various Code committees as being suitable for Code construction.. which was the ASTM Specification that was the basis for S-8 This method was used for all ferrous materials . produced to earlier editions of specifications.

. Cu:Nimatl is mainly used in cooling water exchangers and for its tubesheeti always applied SB 171…. Static Equipment Group ..June 27 at 1:00pm via mobile · Like Arpita Shah Can you tell me the electrode moc?. as Prabhakar Harikrishnan. it is very very expensive... vanadium. So.000 psi) without heat treatment... These steels lie.June 26 at 10:21pm via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Weld overlay is possible till 4" dia.Weldability is good.05 to 0. Standard alloying elements include: niobium. better you go for CS with 70/30 Weld overlay only…. Also.Facebook ..but.? What ever available Bolt you use. Fatigue life and wear resistance are superior to similar heat treated steels..15%).zirconium. and rare-earth metals... So.June 26 at 10:40pm · Like Arpita Shah but can we get same moc weld overlay and what is the grade for pure material?. between carbon steel and low alloy steel. the Flange will have distortion…. after forming the material must be quickly cooled to 540 to 600 °C (1. the Tensile and Hardness of Bolt will be Higher..June 26 at 7:11pm via mobile · Like · 1 Arpita Shah I want to use for tubesheet and girth flage and due to small size of diameter weld overlay may not be possible…..June 26 at 5:25pm · Like · 2 Prabhakar Harikrishnan As far as i procured only available grade is SB 564.004 to 1.June 26 at 5:29pm · Like Purav Desai SB 564 is nickel alloy forging not cu:ni. Page 288 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · June 26 at 5:00pm via mobile Purav Desai For which component you would like to use it? The available material in ASME code is SB 283 C71520…. The disadvantages are that ductility and toughness are not as good as quenched and tempered (Q&T) steels. and can even be improved by reducing carbon content while maintaining strength.June 26 at 5:13pm · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Normally. I also have simillar exp..000 and 109. end user would not accept Solid NF forgings.. what Bolting you will use. the More you Tight. titanium. Right now I'm not sure of the grade of electrode. Yield strength is between 500 and 750 MPa (73.112 °F).. With proper weld overlay procedure and electrodes you can very well get the required composition. molybdenum. we don't use NF forgings. They must also be heated hot enough for the all of the alloys to be in solution. since they do not withstand Pressure and temperature during Continuous operations.. For SMAW E2209….. you can not leak proof the Flange.June 29 at 7:42pm via mobile · Like Arpita Shah what is the meaning of micro alloy steel? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 19 at 5:31pm via mobile NikunjBrahmbhatt Micro alloy steel is a type of alloy steel that contains small amounts of alloying elements (0. They are used to refine the grain micro structure and/or facilitate precipitation hardening. Check with Vendor/Production. boron.June 27 at 10:32pm via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Checked with my QA. Im sure. in terms of performance and cost.June 27 at 8:01am via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Yes. If you want i will check with my quality for electrodes….

Nonferrous nuts and washers shall conform to the requirements of UNF-13. for more check uremail. 16. (2) Carbon or alloy steel nuts and carbon or alloy steel washers of approximately the same hardness as the nuts may be used with alloy steel bolts or studs for metal temperatures not exceeding 900°F (480°C). this also leads to greater ductility.http://www.. High-strength carbon and low-alloy steels have yield strengths greater than 275 MPa (40 ksi) and can be more or less divided into four classifications : • As-rolled carbon-manganese steels.eID=164&ID=226 Static Equipment Group . • Heat treated low-alloy steels……. Washers. • Heat treated (normalized or quenched and tempered) carbon steels.5 states as follows "Criteria for the selection of materials are not within the scope of this Standard. and/or titanium for refinement of grain size and/or precipitation hardening." This is from 2010 edition of ASME Section VIII-1 Paragraph UCS-11 (b) Materials for nuts and washers shall be selected as follows: (1) Carbon steel nuts and carbon steel washers may be used with carbon steel bolts or studs. the material can produce mechanical properties similar to Q&T steels. • As-rolled high-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steels (which are also known as microalloyed steels). But. if used.nationalboard. Hot worked micro alloy steels can be used from the air-cooled state.Facebook .5 Annex F Table 1B for recomended bolting. it should be a Engineered Spec.10% each) of such elements as niobium. (4) Nonferrous nuts and washers may be used with ferrous bolts and studs provided they are suitable for the application. However. Consideration shall be given to the differences in thermal expansion and possible corrosion resulting from the combination of dissimilar metals. because of this they are through hardened and do not have a softer and tougher core like quench and tempered steels.a.org/index. shall be of alloy steel equivalent to the nut material. for bolting material.. (3) Alloy steel nuts shall be used with alloy steel studs or bolts for metal temperatures exceeding 900°F (480°C). The possibility of material deterioration in service should be considered by the user. Because micro alloy steels are not quenched and tempered they are not susceptible to quench cracking. If controlled cooling is used.July 19 at 6:28pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki carbon steel bolts in stainless steel flanges ? Look at ASME 16. Poor selection is cause for catastrophe see link below. Page 289 of 390 Cold worked micro alloy steels do not require as much cold working to achieve the same strength as other carbon steel. Machinability is better than Q&T steels because of their more uniform hardness and their ferrite-pearlite microstructure. vanadium.. nor do they need to be straightened or stress relieved.July 19 at 5:53pm · Like Hemant Solanki Microalloyed steels: with very small additions (generally <0.

..etltd. which is not listed in ASME Sec.org/Standards/B521.co..First.eID=164&ID=226 www.......http://www.nationalboard. and they lost the strength to contain the steam's force under the bonnet.. Pramod Kshirsagar I am facing a problem of the material Tantalum... the nuts were expanding at a much greater rate than the bolts..astm.....When the second turbine generator was started.. it could just as well apply to flanged joints of any kind. but he did not have any.IIB. As this valve got hot...html…July 28 at 6:18pm · Like · 2 Pramod Kshirsagar Thanks Purav Desai…July 29 at 12:02am · Like Static Equipment Group ..org Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 21 at 11:46am Arpita Shah.... and was given permission to look through the boiler room's spare parts bins...nationalboard. He selected parts that he thought would work. http://www.. Purav Desai and EdgrdmDguzmn like this.. Speculating the Cause of the Incident Ultimately. He also did not speak English very well.. ReferASTM B 521... the mechanic wanted to replace the fasteners.htmhttp://www.a.uk/tantalum-ta/tantalum-ta-tubes- pipes... Page 290 of 390 Although this is accident was specific to a valve bonnet. the cause of this catastrophic accident was the installation of nuts made of an improper material for the job... Allegedly.. the mechanic asked one of the boiler room personnel for new nuts and bolts... this valve was opened to allow for steam at 600 psi and 850 degrees F to pass.org/index..Facebook . How to design a HE with Tantalum tubes? Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 28 at 2:49pm Purav Desai This material is not adopted by ASME and hence you will have to refer ASTM. These nuts were used on the bolts fastening the bonnet to the valve's body.

Facebook . Page 291 of 390 Hemant Solanki Material traceability and documentation Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 5 at 12:05pm via Facebook for Windows Phone NirajPandya likes this. Static Equipment Group .

You can sugggest owner to rerate exchanger considering water on tubeside. Represent the same to inspector to prove that min thickness requirement of SA516-60 is followed. with higher CA on shell side for this assembly. It is similar to the problem Arpita Shah had for NF forgings some days back. even though u hv procured SA516-70 but in thickness calculation use SA516-60 allowable stresses. Submit dual certification to inspector. But. The problem is I can not design Floating Head Assembly with NF and had suggested Client. Refer UG- 10.August 15 at 3:00pm via mobile · Like · 1 KewalKareliya hello guys need serious solution vesel operating medium contains caustic. Page 292 of 390 Prabhakar Harikrishnan Hi. client wants to upgrade to NF on shell side.. this is internal Flange. this is the only way out.. Hemant Solanki Dual certify SA516-70 as SA516-60.August 15 at 1:38pm via mobile · Like Prabhakar Harikrishnan Shell side is water….70 instead of Gr. It is completely of CS MOC.Facebook . ?.August 2 at 8:12am · Like Static Equipment Group .hic air MOC mentioned in the mechanical data sheet is SA 516 Gr. The suggested MOC is CS+NF clad on shell side. plss suggests Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 11:35pm via mobile Tejas Shah likes this.. 60 for 1 shell course only. Otherwise go with higher non ferrous grade floating head where forging is available such as hastelloy….70 what shall I do noww. This will have advantage on material selection and it will be cost effective too. but dye nob availability of one particular thicknesses I hve suggested my procurement to buy Gr. There is a AES type HE running for several years.60 . And material is dual certified with both grades…August 1 at 11:52pm · Like · 1 NirajPandya What is the application of vessel? is it for low or High temp. Is anyone with better way out. can u share what is shell side fluid?. with CS+NF Clad or WO only.August 15 at 2:09pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As a thumb rule for allocation of fluid. water is kept on tubeside. I assume. Now tpi has rejected the grade material Gr. Tamil Nadu Purav Desai Hi Prabhakar Harikrishnan. Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 15 at 9:26am near Chennai. Now.

? con college raise his doubt that grade 70 can't use fr hydrogen service but he don't know actual reason.August 2 at 1:14pm via mobile · Edited · Like KewalKareliya thnz for yr reply give also would like to share important info for all the people currently or infuture delaying with eilpleqse note EIL has made policy in which when caustic service is present Gr. and material variables. limiting the magnitude and frequency of load cycling can improve the compatibility of carbon steels with hydrogen gas.60….. SA 516-60 is a preferred choice when the equipment is in sour/ Hydrogen service.Facebook . The severity of these manifestations of hydrogen embrittlement depends on mechanical.August 2 at 11:50am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Despite the attractive properties of carbon steels. particularly in the presence of stress concentrations. gas composition. and certain metallurgical conditions can render the steels susceptible to crack extension under static loading. environmental.i tried by best but did not succeed for acceptance of Gr.August 4 at 7:46pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . and the presence of welds.. As far as RF pad is concerned. 70 now procuring new plate of..so during dual certification don't go for micro-structure with grain size -by looking grain size inspector may reject – thx…August 2 at 8:14am · Like Tejas Shah Can we use grade 70 for hydrogen service.High temp Coarse grain and Gr 70 Low temp FIne grain .. Hydrogen gas also accelerates fatigue crack growth. load cycle frequency. Page 293 of 390 NirajPandya Gr 60 .. hydrogen gas lowers fracture toughness. 70 cannot be used becaused they had face a problm of increase in hardness in longer run.. even at relatively low hydrogen gas partial pressures. It is also a preferred choice when MDMT is nearing limiting sub-zero temperature for CS. suggesting that small fractions of hydrogen in gas blends must be considered in fatigue life assessments. requiring HIC/ SSC test etc. Gr. gas pressure. For example. Control over these variables may allow carbon steels to be applied safely in hydrogen gas environments.. So to be on safer side it is advisable to avoid pad type nozzle…August 2 at 12:49pm · Like · 2 Tejas Shah In one job saipem already mention rf pad fr nozzle in datasheet for such service and thats create doubt thats why asked here. these materials must be used judiciously in structures exposed to hydrogen gas.. It‟s a preference to use SA 516-60 since most of the time grade 70 also qualify all these requirements but risk of failure is more as compare to grade 60.. It shall not be provided to avoid entrainment of any aqueous hydrogen in between pad and shell due to inadequate weld done between nozzle to shell junction. also can we use R. Additionally. Hydrogen gas degrades the tensile ductility of carbon steels..F pad fr nozzle in hydrogen service ?. Variables that influence behavior in hydrogen gas include loading rate.. SA 516-60 is a softer material than grade SA516-70 and exhibits better properties for cracking resistance and impact.

B7M bolting is often opted for in corrosive environments due to its heat treatment & hardness.B7M ?(except as torque value. As Martin says ensure that you have client approval….September 12 at 12:50am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Environmentally Induced Cracking in Deaerator Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Page 294 of 390 Hemant Solanki Major difference of B7& B7M . yield strength) In our specification usage of B7M confined under insulation. besides ensuring equivalent or better mechanical properties please also check about chemical composition. In one of the client data sheet. Selva Raj Hi friends. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 29 at 11:11am via Email Kiran Gawade and 2 others like this. Please provide your views. carbon equivalent etc. pressure vessel construction code is given as PD 5500 and MOC of vessel is specified as DIN Materials. can we propose ASME Material. since DIN materials at times can have typical alloying for the desired properties. B7 bolting also can be used if it is used for non-exposed to corrosive environment which means we can substitute the B7 bolting with B7M for corrosive environment. In this case. why ? When we can B7 replaced by B7M with regard to service condition ? or is it possible with regard to dissimilar strength ? Answer : Your specification calls the requirement for B7M to avoid the corrosion under insulation.Post from Material Engineering google Group Dear All What are differences between B7. equivalent to DIN material with PD 5500 Design code. I need one clarification. Like · · Follow Post · September 11 at 12:16pm via mobile View 2 more comments Martin Prabu before proceeding to Detail Engineering…September 11 at 12:48pm · Like · 2 Hemant Pradhan While selecting ASME equivalent material to DIN. heat treatment.

Page 295 of 390 Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

Facebook ... MR0103 is for refinery and down stream facility whereas MR0175 is for upstream oil production unit.September 12 at 3:30pm via mobile · Like Ajit Managoli PWHT is very essential for deaerators. So before applying any requirements to material or before buying material a correct corrosion mechanism shall be known…. And then tests are carried out to chk CLR. SOHIC are not covered by standard.September 13 at 7:00pm · Like Kewal Kareliya @ purav pls carify if HIC resistance is mentioned than…. HIC is a type of cracking mechanism under which material fails.September 13 at 7:04pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai if HIC resistance is mentioned then follow all material requirements of NACE MR 0175 & testing requirements of NACE TM 0284….hic resistance so here we have buy nace material or HIC material ( service is sour or some times sour n lethal both)…September 13 at 6:26pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya referring to my above query also note one MDS I came across mentioned NACE MR0103 WITH HIC RESISTANCE MR 0175 so ds case we have selected NACE material. Purav Desai NACE SP 0590 can also be referred for cracking mechanism in deaerator….September 12 at 3:36pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya hi guya can any tell me when NACE & HIC is selected.... Like · · Unfollow Post · September 12 at 8:00pm via mobile Purav Desai The basic difference is NACE is a body under which many standards have been issued on corrosion problems. NACE has a study report on this issue…. There are two NACE standards for the same.. minimize non metallic incusions.. pls share. Other should be control of chemical composition I.e depropanizer. that will be very interesting case. which process unit it belongs to?. Can you share what is the equipment you are handling. CTR and CSR.September 12 at 9:15pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai The correct standard is NACE SP0472 and NACE TM0284…September 12 at 9:20pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya thanx guys some times MDS specify as follows NACE MR0103 . For HIC.September 13 at 7:00pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya it is stripper for FCC unit of kochi refinery…September 13 at 7:02pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya I have three columns i.. main differnce for selection of NACE amd HIC.i have very less exposure for ds MOC so share as much info qs possible.September 13 at 7:06pm · Like Kewal Kareliya ok than I have to procure NACE material or HIC material…September 13 at 7:09pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . So now u can select applicability of each standard as per the project u r handling. So material is generally HIC tested but as NACE std calls for ita requirements. main criteria should be controlled hardness in weld zone and HAZ. NACE MR0103 and NACE MR 0175. Page 296 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · September 12 at 10:14am Selva Raj likes this. You can refer these terms in NACE TM0472…. its service (name).September 13 at 6:57pm · Like Purav Desai If both the NACE standards(0103 & 0175) applies.Is it correct…September 13 at 6:30pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Refer the foreword of NACE MR 0103 which clearly states that HIC.e. Further Sour Service is a generalized term which covers variety of corrosive environment. often people term that material shall be NACE certified.debutanizer n stripper….

this cracking can come in the form of blistering on the surface.September 13 at 7:13pm · Edited · Like Kewal Kareliya I will post my mds tomorrow hope than u can suggest better after that but really thnx for d info. this is a metallographic procedure for determining what is loosely referenced as a'banding index'(AI). Another recent test recognized more for its ability to screen classes of material more than for production testing is NACE TM0103 (Laboratory test procedure for evaluation of SOHIC resistance of plate steels used in wet H2S service)…. However even this by itself does not guarantee thaat steel meeting its general requirements is immune from environmental damage from SSC. it is very clearly mentioned that it covers material requirements for HIC. keep sharing and keep learning.September 13 at 7:39pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Thanks for posting your query.September 13 at 7:40pm · Like Hemant Solanki Pressure Vessel Steels for use in refinery environments that are subject to certain operating conditions can be susceptible to hydrogen assisted cracking. The use of HIC tested steels is one approach used in dealing with potential sour service applications.technical specifications sheet I have mentioned in the similar manner as mentioned in my MDS. adds little or nothing in the way of special controls commonly associated with HIC resistance steel. however this standard applies to oilfield equipment and for carbon steel. Applicable NACE documents besides TM0284 and 8X194 includes ISO15156/MR0175 which is some times cited as a specification to be invoked when assuarance from hydrogen assisted cracking is required. the four point bent beam test.22 hours ago · Like Static Equipment Group . To meet HIC testing requirements. Besides cleanliness. maximum level of phosphorous and oxygen may also be accepted. use of simply lower sulfur steels with restrictive CE and prohibition against the use of micro alloys may suffice. More appropraite for refining application is NACE MR0103.. Another perceived control for steels in sour service involves the application of ASTM E1268 (Standard Practice for assessing the degree of banding or orientation of microstructures). step wise cracking through the thickness (HIC) or sulfide stress cracking (SSC). If you read scope of MR0175.September 13 at 7:24pm · Like Kewal Kareliya I am. More recently there has been attention to a phenomenon termed stress oriented hydrogen induced cracking (SOHIC). though traditionally these are used to evaluate steels much higher in strength than A516. other approaches depending on the anticipated severity of the sour environment include the use of stainless or stainless clad steels. it is imperative to have very clean steels with low inclusion contents. ASTM G39 (Preparation and use of bent beam stress corrosion test specimens). People keep saying NACE resistance material because before 2003 there was only one NACE standard. All HIC tested steels shall have sulfur levels to 0. If you ask me I would rather specify it as "Material to satisfy chemical composition of NACE MR0175 and HIC testing requirements of NACE TM0284.002% or less and employs calcium treatment for inclusion shape control. I would have specified requirements in requisition as I mentioned earlier. to evaluate susceptibility for SSC.. where less severe conditions are expected. Keep Posting.. Page 297 of 390 Purav Desai It cant be said as one of those. and NACE TM0177 Method A (NACE Tensile Test) are sometimes called out. Its indeed my pleasure to discuss such topics here.Facebook .i will once again go throw all d code n specification…. heat treating found to be very important in attaining satisfactory results with HIC tests.. Both Normalizing and Q&T heat treatments are available abd help to meet other properties as well.but still I dont have the clarity hence I posted here for my query .. and has recently been associated with steels for sour service. Blistering and HIC cracking can occur without the presence of external stresses." Hope this helps…. Mill makers have enough experience to make HIC resistant material however that cannot be taken for granted. That's why If I would be in your position. In 2003 NACE MR0103 was published and clear categorization has been made between Upstream and Downstream units….share if more details u recollect if any as my procurement is already in process…September 13 at 7:16pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As per my experience.. A more detailed review on this subject is contained in NACE Publication 8X194 (Materials and Fabrication Practices for New Pressure Vessels Used in Wet H2S Refinery Service).. while SSC and SOHIC require the combination of hydrogen activity in the presence of external stresses.

In former years. except for tubes within the boiler setting whose design temperature was 850°F (455°C) or lower. the provisions of the above noted Code Cases have been incorporated into ASME Sections. it would leak. it could be argued that a failed tube would not represent much of a danger to someone standing nearby.Facebook . 1942. in 1988. since this term is not defined in ASME Sections. some thought is being given to removing the penalty on ERW tubes. it imposed a 15% penalty on allowable stress.. Any grease or other contamination of the surfaces to be welded has the potential for preventing a sound weld. several Code Cases were passed (CC 2041. (89 mm) OD. casing. a vote of no confidence in the electric resistance weld and/or the inspection of the weld. in effect. As a first step in this direction. and the use of the normal allowable stress was permitted only for tubes inside the protective barrier of the setting. Page 298 of 390 Hemant Solanki ELECTRIC RESISTANCE WELDED (ERW) MATERIALS When the Code first accepted tubes and pipes formed of electric resistance welded (ERW) materials. accepted by the Authorized Inspectors. As simpler and lighter construction has evolved. henceforth. the 15% penalty was always an arbitrary one. and the additional NDE called for in the Code Cases should. Lowering the stress by 15% would not really help. Various books on boiler construction typically define the setting as the construction surrounding either the boiler or the tubes. However. insulation. with heavy casing and refractory. There was apparently some doubt about the welding. Because of the good service record of these tubes in recent years. or both: refractory. or some combination of these. if they meet three conditions: the tubes are given extra nondestructive examination (angle beam ultrasonic inspection and an electric test in accordance with ASME specification SA-450). Code users often wonder just what the term "within the setting" means. that the tubes are still "enclosed within the setting." and if they meet the other provisions of the Code cases cited. it is the industry's position. Although such construction may not provide as strong a barrier as formerly. If the weld were truly bad. lagging. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 4:46pm via Email Static Equipment Group . provide some further assurance that any bad welds will be detected. the tubes are no larger than 3½ in. and 2026) permitting the use of ERW tubes within the allowed design temperature range without the 15% reduction in allowable stress. That penalty was. After extensive satisfactory use. 1996. 1984. and the tubes are enclosed within the setting. they would be entitled to the full allowable stress without the 15% penalty of former years. and careful inspection has always been important in assuring that any bad welds will be found. there may be only insulation and relatively thin lagging outside the tubes or enclosing a header. There has now been quite a lot of good experience with ERW tubes.

11. a problem arose once the designation NP appeared in Part D. although there are exceptions to this rule. Part D. Only if there is a maximum use temperature listed in one of these columns may the material be used for construction covered by that section of the Code.5 cautions that austenitic stainless steels are not to be used for boiler pressure parts that are water-wetted in normal service. but it has no outright prohibitions against the use of any specific materials. which are stipulated in PG-8 and PG-9. For example." Section I does have some constraints on the use of various materials. Division 1. and one for Section XII." There is one column for Section I. one for Section VIII. "but not of materials specifically prohibited. No Authorized Inspector had previously challenged the use of those materials in these ASME product standards because their use was (and is) explicitly sanctioned by PG. it is explained that such parts (covered in PG-11) which comply with any ASME product standard accepted by reference in PG-42 may be made of any material listed in that standard. meaning not permitted. footnote 1 of PG-5. This has led to a number of problems. the letters NP appear. one for Section III. Materials such as cast iron and bronze have relatively low temperature limits. Page 299 of 390 Hemant Solanki FINDING AND USING DESIGN STRESSES IN SECTION II. or beyond the use limitations of this Section. now established by the highest temperature at which a stress value for Section I use is listed in Section II.Facebook . Therein lies a problem because there are many materials listed in the ASME product standards accepted by Section I by reference in PG-42 that had never been listed in the Section I stress tables. PART D The designer must determine which stress line for a particular material pertains to Section I (or one of the other Sections) by referring to the second page of the four pages of information under four columns designated "Applicability and Maximum Temperature Limits. One is the maximum design temperature for any given material. One of the authors' companies found itself facing the following situation: It had designed and subcontracted to another stamp holder the fabrication of an Static Equipment Group . In Chapter 11. However. The expression "beyond the use limitations of this Section" pertains to temperature limitations. under Standard Pressure Parts. Otherwise.

. not permitted. it is given a new material designation. Fortunately. Interpretation I-92-97 is as follows: Question: May SA-403 austenitic fittings made to ASME/ANSI standards accepted by reference in PG-42 be used for Section I steam service? Reply: Yes. Specification for Wrought Austenitic Stainless Steel Pipe Fittings. Section I had never listed that material. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 4:55pm via Email Static Equipment Group . When the elbow is completed in accordance with the provisions of SA- 403 and ASME B16. as a fitting. it was apparently permitted only for Section VIII construction.Facebook . Accordingly. but did nothing about the generic problem of the potentially misleading designation Not Permitted in Section II.9 elbows starts with pipe or tube made from a material that is designated only by class and grade (e. Unfortunately. should not mean NP if PG-11 provides otherwise. Section I subsequently issued Interpretation I-92-97. the Section II.9. Part D column for Section I applicability listed SA-403 as NP.9 (now ASME B16. An attempt to have BPV II modify the NP designation with a note referring to PG-l1 proved unavailing. The manufacture of B16. so the unwary designer faces a potential trap in a situation similar to the one just described. WP 304) and that meets the chemical and tensile requirements of SA-403. A-403 or SA-403.g. or rather. but it had been listed in Section VIII. Part D. Factory-Made Wrought Steel Buttwelding Fittings. Page 300 of 390 austenitic stainless steel superheater whose return bends were purchased as standard elbows made in accordance with ANSI B16.9). The AI at the fabricator saw that listing and proclaimed that the elbows could not be used in Section I construction. the Authorized Inspection Agency providing the AI at the job site had knowledgeable Code committee members who quickly agreed that the designation NP should not apply in these circumstances. which solved the problem for these particular fittings. stopping fabrication on a contract with heavy daily penalties for late completion.

All of these requirements have evolved over the years in response to the needs of the users. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 4:59pm via Email Vijay Kumar and Nayan Joshi like this. an Australian Standard Material Specification. A-106. and the supplier certifies that the material complies with that specification. Part A. then he will be obliged to obtain a copy of the relevant material specification. as is done for the ASTM material specifications). The equivalent ASME pipe specification is thus SA-106. the ASTM. ASTM issues specifications designated by letter and number. For example. The ASME material specifications are thus usually identical to those of the ASTM. If a boiler manufacturer chooses to use one of the permitted foreign material specifications in the construction of his Section I component. Static Equipment Group . In keeping with the ASME's policy to internationalize its Code. ASME has adopted a number of foreign material specifications. Steel Plates for Pressure Vessel Equipment. and great care is taken to assure its quality. and additional testing. dealing with how it is ordered. In most cases. Seamless Carbon Steel Pipe for High Temperature Service. Section I permits the use of SA/AS 1548. The purchaser orders by specification number. hardness requirements. heat treatment. Each specification contains a variety of information appropriate to that product. dealing with such things as stress relieving.Facebook . Page 301 of 390 Hemant Solanki HOW MATERIAL IS ORDERED Material is a fundamental link in the chain of ASME Code construction. nondestructive examination. When the ASME adopts ASTM specifications. for example. and how the material is to be marked. The purchaser can also specify nonmandatory supplementary requirements. surface condition. Part A as a single cover sheet for each specification (a complete material specification has not been reproduced in Section II. The ASME or SA material specifications are used as purchase specifications. the manufacturing process. The ASME accomplishes this by adopting material specifications that have been developed and adopted first by the American Society for Testing and Materials. it adds the letter S. These are included in Section II. chemical composition requirements. furnished with the material are material test reports that provide the results of various tests required by the specification. various test requirements. tensile requirements.

(Note that some sections. may be used for Section I pressure-retaining parts. Part D.. a compendium of ASME material specifications for all the pressure vessel and welding materials permitted for use in Code construction by Sections I.g. IV. Division 2. Materials not otherwise listed for Section I service may also be used if they are listed in a Section I Code Case (see Code Cases in Appendix II). Section I also sets temperature limits for the use of the various materials. e. and XII. in part to make up for the fact that less nondestructive examination is used in the construction of these relatively lowpressure boilers. and C are. Division 1. III. and Filler Metals Part D-Properties Parts A. Electrodes.e. It is a four-part compendium of materials data. Part D. i. Section IV. Properties. the allowable stresses that were in Table PG- 23 of the earlier editions of Section I were transferred to Section II. B. Page 302 of 390 Hemant Solanki USING SECTION II Section II of the ASME Code contains information on materials. Section VIII.. use different criteria. VIII. almost a foot thick in its entirety. The maximum temperature listed for Section I use is 1650°F (900°C). B 16. It is important to remember that not every material listed in Section II can be used in Section I construction.) The allowable stresses for ferrous materials used in Section I construction are listed as Static Equipment Group . Conversely. With the publication of the 1992 edition of the Code. They must be used within the temperature range for which allowable stress values are tabulated in Section II. The allowable stresses from Section I and those from Sections III and VIII were consolidated and reformatted into this single volume. uses lower stresses.Facebook . PG-11 also permits the use of most materials listed in the ASME standards recognized by Section I in PG-42. a thick volume subtitled Properties. which generally result in higher allowable stresses than those of Sections I and VIII. as their names indicate. Heating Boilers. such as the ASME standard Pipe Flanges and Flanged Fittings. This consolidation facilitates uniformity among those Code sections that use the same criteria for establishing allowable stress. only materials listed in the material paragraphs of Section I. The four volumes are as follows: Part A-Ferrous Material Specifications Part B-Nonferrous Material Specifications Part C-Specification for Welding Rods. In general.. PG-5 through PG-14 and PW-5. for high alloy steels used in superheaters.5.

Also included are tables of yield and ultimate tensile strength as a function of temperature. density. and Standard Units for Use in Equations. preparation of Technical Inquiries to the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committee. footnotes that formerly appeared with the separate stress tables in the various book sections. Yield strength at test temperature is used in the design calculations of the boiler components for the hydrostatic test requirements of PG-99. modulus of rigidity. A useful feature of Section II. Part D is organized into subparts covering stress tables. melting-point range.1. Guideline for Multiple Marking of Material.Facebook . thermal conductivity. and specific heat for a fairly large variety of materials. thermal diffusivity. Another describes how charts for external-pressure design are established and what criteria are used to determine allowable compressive stresses when designing for external pressure. Part D.S. modulus of elasticity. copper alloys. Two appendices describe the bases for establishing the allowable stress and allowable design stress intensity values (the latter are used in the design of Class 1 nuclear power plant components). Other mandatory appendices explains the means by which a new material can be approved for Code use. In addition. These Part D tables have many important footnotes covering conditions of use. Also included are a number of mandatory appendices. Page 303 of 390 a function of temperature in Table lA of Section II. physical-property tables. nickel. Guidance for use of U. Part D is the physical-property tables. Metallurgical Phenomena and B. Allowable stresses for copper. They provide such information as the coefficient of thermal expansion. Poisson's ratio. and external pressure charts. and nickel alloys are listed in Table 1B. Customary and SI Units in the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code. Section II. there are two nonmandatory appendices covering: A. Much of this information is provided over a large temperature range. Modulus of elasticity at design temperature is used in the design calculations of PFT-51 for cylindrical furnaces and tubes under external pressure. Finding the allowable stress for a particular material can sometimes be difficult if one is not familiar with Static Equipment Group .

Class/condition/temper Static Equipment Group . Microalloy carbon steels.. Yield strength 4. 6. Properties. and Ti added. Ti. martensitic. Part D. The five-level sorting sequence for ferrous materials is as follows: 1.e. W. within the same Cr content. this sort on second-element content within the same major-element content applies to the previous categories. Tensile strength 3.ordered on the basis of increasing Cr to 9Cr-1Mo-V). sorted by increasing Cr content and. V. The listing is based on the sorting order the committee used. and duplex stainless steel ordered by increasing Cr content. a second sort on the second element. Ni or Mo. Within this group. and they are not listed in numerical order. so several arbitrary choices were made. Carbon steels. the second element never exceeds 4%. Instead. they are listed by some not readily apparent rules having to do with increasing content of certain alloying elements. Nickel alloy steels ordered according to nickel compositions beginning with 1/2Ni-1/2Cr- 1/4Mo-V and ending with 28Ni-19Cr-Cu-Mo. Ni) content. In general. 4. followed by Cr-xx-where xx represents a second element such as Mo. It is difficult to find a particular material specification because there are so many. and C-Mn-Si steels. A hard-to-categorize group of low alloy ferritics that have Mn and Si identified in their nominal compositions. e. Within the same Cr content. For the nonferrous materials. C-steels with Cb. Nominal composition (more on this below) 2.Facebook .. 7.. 2 through 6 above. C. Ni. was performed. beginning at 11Cr-Ti and finishing at 29Cr-4Ni-Ti. 3. Specification number 5. 5. Ferrous materials were listed in the following order of nominal composition: 1. Yield strength 4. The Cr-Mn and Cr-Ni austenitic (and perhaps some duplex) stainless steels beginning with 16Cr-9Mn-2Ni-N and ending with 25Cr-22Ni-2Mo-N. Alloy/UNS number (alpha-numeric) 2. The sorting order for materials differs between the tables for ferrous materials (SA specifications) and nonferrous materials (SB specifications). increasing second element (e. etc. High alloy ferritic.g. Page 304 of 390 the material stress tables in Section II. i. no single rule works universally. 2. Low alloy steels (C-1/2 Mo. Grade or type While this seems simple enough.g. the order of the sort is as follows: 1. beginning with Mn-1/4Mo and ending in 1 1/2Si-1/2Mo. . establishing a rule to sort materials in an ascending order of nominal composition is difficult. Tensile strength 3. C-Mn. C-Si.

3 Materials Index (Tenth Edition). and which materials are permitted for use in the various book sections. and individual users and producers of metals and alloys. a specification. Specification number It is thus apparent that unless a designer knows the nominal composition of a material or its UNS number. and others. Another useful book is Metals and Alloys in the Unified Numbering System. Static Equipment Group . trade associations. such as nominal material compositions. One of these is the CASTI Guidebook to ASME Section II.A. Moen. SAE. ASTM. B31.Facebook . property. condition. It is rather a unified identifier of a metal or alloy for which controlling limits have been established in specifications published elsewhere. However. The Unified Numbering System for Metals and Alloys (UNS) provides a means of correlating many nationally used metal and alloy numbering systems currently administered by societies. since it is based on chemical composition and establishes no limits for form. A UNS designation is not. which lists and cross-indexes materials of chemically similar specifications. by R. by ASME. material properties. which lists and cross- indexes a great deal of useful information about Section II. in itself. or quality. he or she will have some difficulty in finding that material in the tables of Part D. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:02pm via Email Vijay Kumar and 2 others like this. there are a number of reference books that can help.1 & B31. Page 305 of 390 5.

the burden of proof that a given material was the equivalent of a material acceptable to Section I (or Section VIII) was made greater for organizations that were not either boiler or boiler-parts manufacturers. Division 1 have long had provisions (PG-10 and UG-10) dealing with the acceptance of material made to specifications not permitted by Section I or Section VIII (which could. Accordingly. These other organizations were often material warehouses that bought material from material manufacturers and resold it to users. in many cases. When PG-10 and UG-10 were revised in 1987. Page 306 of 390 Hemant Solanki USE OF NON-ASME MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND MATERIAL Both Sections I and VIII. In 1987. for example. these organizations were. it may be marked as required by that specification. With the increasing emphasis on global competition. it was they. be an ASME specification or a foreign material specification) and with the acceptance of material of any kind that is not fully identified. The recertification or requalification process differs. Under the less stringent pre-1987 recertification rules. found to be recertifying materials as the equivalent of other materials so that they could sell material they had in stock even if full equivalency of all details of manufacture. The second category comprises any other organizations. and mechanical properties could not be shown. and who may do it. Once a material has been established as the equivalent of an acceptable specification.Facebook . for two reasons. The first category of organizations comprises only boiler or boiler-parts manufacturers. depending on which of two categories of organization is doing the recertifying and whether the material is fully identified with a complete certification from the material manufacturer. after all. or both. the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committee has Static Equipment Group . Boiler and boiler-parts manufacturers were allowed a lower burden of proof because they had more to lose if the recertified material turned out to be less than satisfactory. when a material is requalified as the equivalent of an acceptable ASME material. who were taking design responsibility for either the boiler or the parts. these provisions were expanded to provide more guidance on what must be done. the rules for those organizations were made more stringent. chemistry.

21. especially if excursions over 800°F (425°C) are infrequent and of short duration. These specifications include a total of 18 materials.Facebook . Graphitization can severely affect the strength and ductility of these steels. This is a two-way street. Recognizing the many areas of the world where economic constraints or local rules may necessitate the use of non-ASME materials. of which eleven (11) are permitted for Section I construction. and a European carbon steel plate." Some members of BPV I are in favour of prohibiting any use of carbon steels above 800°F (425°C). Europe. and Japan. With the publication of the 2010 Edition. the carbide phase of carbon steel may be converted to graphite. It happens that these two materials are very similar to two existing ASME materials. SA-36. and SA-516 Grade 65. and the ASME recognizes the need to remove unnecessary barriers to the use of ASME construction. but others think this is not necessary. CSA-G40. where the graphite usually lines up as chain graphite. and in 1997. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:13pm via Email Static Equipment Group . particularly the heat-affected zone of welds. One of these barriers was ASME's previous insistence that only ASME or ASTM materials could be used in ASME construction. China. a type of microstructural deterioration that occurs in carbon and carbon- molybdenum steels from the decomposition of iron carbide into ferrite and graphite. a structural steel. ASME has adopted a total of eight (8) foreign specifications from Australia. Note G10 in the allowable stress table (Table 1A of Section II. This decomposition is a time and temperature-dependent relationship that begins to become significant only after long service at temperatures above about 840°F (450°C) (it occurs more quickly at higher temperatures). Page 307 of 390 sought ways in which to gain wider international acceptance of ASME Code construction. in the hope that other countries will reciprocate. Those specifications covered a Canadian structural steel. Part D) cautions: "Upon prolonged exposure to temperatures above 800°F. Section II approved the first two foreign material specifications for inclusion in the 1998 Addenda. a common material used for pressure vessels. the ASME relaxed its policy. the components are likely to be operating at 800°F (425°C) or lower and that graphitization is not a significant problem at these relatively low temperatures. that the designers should be allowed to use their own judgment. They note also that even with a design temperature slightly above 800°F (425°C). Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:09pm via Email Hemant Solanki CS Graphitization Graphitization. Canada. EN 10028-2.

Page 308 of 390 Hemant Solanki STRENGTH OF MATERIALS AFTER FABRICATION The fabrication of material into boiler components may involve all sorts of hot or cold metal working. especially for experienced manufacturers who know what. Heat treatment such as solution annealing or postweld heat treatment may be employed following various forming and fabrication operations. a dispute arises about the strength or other properties of a material after it has been fabricated into components of a boiler. Section I does not specify hardness limits for the tubing as fabricated and installed in a boiler. intermediate or postfabrication heat treatment may be appropriate. Occasionally. A last and more recent interpretation on this subject. flaring. The maximum hardness specified in the Section II material specification is one of a number of requirements intended to ensure that the tubing furnished by the material manufacturer will withstand fabrication and installation requirements. if any. I-95-03. was issued in response to an inquiry about chromized tubes: Question: Do the materials listed in PG-9 for Section I construction have to comply with the individual specification requirements after the manufacturer has performed fabrication on the material? Reply: No. may have changed. such as yield strength. forging. As a consequence. the ASME material specifications have been developed to provide material suitable for the various operations involved in boiler or pressure vessel manufacture. or swaging. and the change in material properties presents no problem.Facebook . Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:20pm via Email Static Equipment Group . or ductility. hardness. Hardness of Swaged Portion of Boiler Tubes: Question: Is it required that carbon steel tubes such as SA-210 A-1 which have undergone fabrication operations by the boiler manufacturer meet the maximum hardness specified in the specifications? Reply: No. the as received mechanical properties of the material. A purchaser may have the mistaken idea that the properties of the material after fabrication must match its properties in the as-received condition. Typically. rolling. when it met the specification requirements. such as bending. interpretation dealing with postfabrication strength of materials is I-83-01. Section I has issued several interpretations to correct this misapprehension.

As explained to the inquirer. For cold-bending operations. The following interpretation was developed and issued on this subject: Question: If the finishing forming-temperature for austenitic stainless steels is above the minimum heat-treating temperature given in Table PG-19. Section VIII permits exemption from the postforming heat treatment requirements when the forming strains are less than the proscribed maximum strain limits of Table UHA-44. Section VIII introduced UHA-44 COLD FORMING OF AUSTENITIC MATERIALS. UHA-44 includes the formulas for calculating the forming strain in cylinders. Page 309 of 390 Kiran Gawade likes this. Heat treatment after cold forming at a temperature given in the material specification will restore the intended properties of the material and will minimize the threat of premature failure due to recrystallation during the time of operation. spherical or dished heads. regardless of the amount of strain. Early in 2010. Hemant Solanki COLD FORMING OF AUSTENITIC MATERIALS Appendix A370 of Section II. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:29pm via Email Static Equipment Group . Table UHA-44 lists the austenitic materials permitted by Section VIII. BPV I received from a Manufacturer an inquiry regarding the heat treatment requirements for austenitic materials that had been heated during the forming operation. Part D states in part "Cold forming operations performed during manufacturer of austinetic stainless steel pressure parts may cause impaired service performance when the component operates in the creep range [above 1000°F (540°C)]." For this reason. do the requirements of PG-19 apply? Reply: No.Facebook . pipes and tubes. which may be subject to postforming heat treatment. the rules of PG-19 or UHA-44 presume that the finishing-forming temperature is below the minimum heat-treatment temperature given in Table PG-19 or UHA-44.

Table ED-1 (formerly called Appendix A) a list of all the materials approved for Code construction and the book sections in which they are approved for use. As explained below. That line declares that the chemical and physical properties of all the parts meet the requirements of the ASME Code.Facebook . going back in some cases to 1980. starting in 1998. However. Thus. There is also Table ED-2. it had generally been understood that old (but previously unused) material could be used in boiler and pressure vessel construction. Page 310 of 390 Hemant Solanki DOES NEW MATERIAL GET OLD ? The Foreword to all sections of the Code used to explain that revisions to the Code are issued as yearly Addenda on December 31. manufacturers can readily determine the acceptability of any particular material on hand. except for boilers and pressure vessels contracted for prior to the end of the six-month period. line five on the P-3 form. covering foreign specifications that have been accepted by ASME.) These revisions become mandatory six months later. but of no specified date of issue. GUIDELINE ON ACCEPTABLE NON-ASTM EDITIONS. if a manufacturer happened to have in inventory a lot of SA-213 tubes or SA-515 plate that had been manufactured years earlier. the manufacturer is not required to list on the Data Report Form the date of the specifications covering the pressure part material. which defines the year edition of Section I to which the boiler is constructed. for example. Thus. the Foreword has never specifically addressed what must be done about revisions to the material specifications listed in Section II. except for unusual situations. Confirmation of this practice is seen in the declarations the manufacturer signs on the Data Report Form. the manufacturer could use those materials for construction under the latest edition of the Code. However. Until the mid-1980s. See Effective Dates of the Code and Code Revisions in Chapter 2. GUIDELINE ON ACCEPTABLE ASTM EDITIONS. That is. The story of the development of Table ED-1 is instructive. ASME now provides at the beginning of Parts A and B of Section II. the Static Equipment Group . These have traditionally been treated differently from revisions to the Code. (However this changed to July 1. The list shows the latest material specifications adopted by the ASME and the dates of earlier versions considered equivalent and acceptable.

however.050% and 0. allowable stresses at elevated temperature might be reduced. or the yield strength of a particular grade may be increased slightly to make its properties and allowable stresses consistent with other similar alloys.060%. Material produced to earlier specifications with requirements different from the specification in effect at the time of the contract may also be used provided the material manufacturer or vessel manufacturer certifies with evidence acceptable to the Authorized Inspector that the requirements of the version in effect at the time of contract will be met. or type produced. the changes are little more than an updating of some of the many other specifications and documents typically referenced in the material specifications. Page 311 of 390 manufacturer does have to declare that the design. the ASTM reduced the maximum permissible limits on phosphorous and sulfur from 0. and workmanship conform to a particular edition and addenda of Section I. and UG- 84(b)(2). construction. respectively. In the 1980s. Item BC-251. Changes to material specifications are initiated by the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) and are then usually adopted by ASME. In recognition of this advance. but the material itself would still be acceptable.035%. At worst. Often. which allowed the major steel producers to produce cleaner steels with reduced maximum permissible phosphorous and sulfur content. since material specifications change very slowly. a new grade is added to a particular specification. Occasionally. 1980. the Committee realized that a great deal of heretofore perfectly good material was still in inventory at material manufacturers. When the ASME adopted those changes. Division 1. Further confirmation of the above practice is found in a Section VIII interpretation that was issued on March 27. class. and Static Equipment Group . One of these was the development of improved technology. a number of factors changed this situation. to 0. This was a reasonable policy.Facebook . and there is virtually no possibility that a material proven by years of satisfactory service would suddenly be found to be unsafe. pressure vessel equipment manufacturers. One of the inquirer's questions was as follows: Question: May material which is produced to any version of the Code be used so long as there have not been any changes made to the specification except for editorial changes? A key paragraph in the reply was this: Specifications to editions or addenda earlier than those in effect at the time of vessel contract may be used provided the requirements are identical (excluding editorial differences) or more stringent for the grade. under the subject Material Usage under Section VIII.

For various reasons. Sections I. nickel. a spectographic examination of the pipe material showed it to contain enough chromium to change its material category from P-1 (plain carbon steel. and vanadium.Facebook . cleaner steels would be appropriate and issued Code Case 2053. These residual elements affect properties such as weldability. not usually listed in the material specifications. After a careful check of the welding variables showed nothing amiss. Divisions 1 and 2. molybdenum. fracture toughness. An example of the problems caused by residual elements occurred at one of the authors' companies during the welding of some pipe that was thought to be carbon steel. IV. the easiest to weld) to a low- chromium category that required preheat to assure crack-free welds. called residual elements. The case permits continued use of material in inventory. This yielded steel with a fairly consistent content of residual elements. it turned out that the hollow from which it was drawn had been made in Europe. neither the ASTM nor the ASME material specifications for carbon steel pipe had any limit for residual elements such as chromium. overseas steel producers sometimes produced steel with a much higher content of certain elements. perhaps because of more variable ores or a greater use of scrap material. in the late 1980s. Another important change that took place in the 1980s was the increasing use of imported steel. The principal source of steel for the large domestic integrated steel producers was blast-furnace product derived from raw ore. For Material in Inventory. Page 312 of 390 other users such as utilities. as explained below. copper. Although the pipe had been bought in Texas. Another problem that occurred occasionally with the use of steel manufactured in Europe was the cracking of cold-bent carbon steel pipe after a few years of service. despite the fact that all the normal welding procedures were used. the Committee decided that a gradual shift to the use of the new. which were not normally expected in plain carbon steel. and strength levels. The prohibition of the further use of this material in inventory would have represented a huge economic penalty and could not be justified on the grounds of safety. and VIII. Accordingly. Unexpected cracks developed in the welds. At that particular time. Studies under the sponsorship of the Material Static Equipment Group .

since it would not be possible without expensive and tedious analysis to demonstrate that the old material met the requirements of the latest specification for residual elements.4%. as explained below. in the late 1980s. Fortunately. Limits were placed on the permitted percentages of certain residual elements. the current specifications for SA-53 and SA-106 carbon steel pipe call for a maximum chromium. the ASTM (and the ASME). The certified material test report routinely furnished with pressure-part material lists this material composition. such as copper and tin. and a maximum combined total of 1% for five named residual elements. For example. As a consequence of the restricted chemistry. again applied and permitted the continued use of those materials. to restrict their chemistry. copper.Facebook . These elements may have come from scrap used in the manufacture of the pipe. Again. Parts A and B. It should be noted that Code Case 2053 has now been annulled. Code Case 2053. or nickel content of 0. the problem of material in inventory was raised. dealing with materials in inventory. Page 313 of 390 Properties Council found some evidence that the problem may have been caused by the presence of small amounts of residual elements. materials manufactured to the new requirements changed slightly. Owing to the welding and other problems with unexpected and unwanted residual elements in carbon steels. provide sufficient information to use materials produced to earlier editions. began a program of revising the specifications for some of these materials. since the Committee felt that it had served its purpose and that Table ED-1 in Sections II. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:38pm via Email Static Equipment Group .

The introduction to Table ED-1 is rather brief. If it is not identical. it is possible to find any Section II material in Table ED-1 in a numerical list and quickly determine which book sections permit its use. so Subcommittee II went back only to 1988 as a base year for comparison. the one in effect at the time of the contract) may be used. That company had in inventory a considerable quantity of SA-178 grade C tubing material Static Equipment Group . This appendix lists the book sections of the ASME Boiler Code that approve and permit the use of the various specifications. Table ED-1 states that an ASME or an ASTM specification with requirements different from the current or other acceptable specification (e. The task of comparing and accepting earlier specifications was lengthy and tedious. As indicated above. There is other useful information to be found in the introduction to Table ED-1 of Section II. Stated another way. but it explains several important policies that differ slightly from those explained in the 1980 Section VIII interpretation mentioned above. was asked to address and provide guidance on the problem of using materials made to previous editions of the specifications. the Committee on Materials. Page 314 of 390 Hemant Solanki CODE GUIDANCE ON THE USE OF OLD MATERIALS In the early 1990s. the manufacturer would have to demonstrate to the AI that the ASTM material met the requirements of the corresponding ASME specification.Facebook . A situation illustrating many of the problems that can arise when using old material happened at one of the authors' companies.g. BPV II. provided the material manufacturer or vessel manufacturer certifies with evidence acceptable to the Authorized Inspector that the requirements of one of the acceptable versions of the specification have been met. but listed some earlier years when it was apparent that those earlier editions were identical to the 1988 editions.. BPV II prepared an Appendix A (now Table ED-1) to both Parts A and B of Section II. listing the latest material specifications adopted by the ASME and the dates of earlier versions considered equivalent and acceptable. Parts A and B. going back in some cases to 1980. Table ED-1 also states that a material produced under an ASTM specification may be used in lieu of the corresponding ASME specification listed in Table ED-1 (if it is identical).

Facebook . Static Equipment Group . Fortunately. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 18 at 5:42pm via Email Mahboob Qayyum likes this. When Case 2053 was brought to the attention of the QC inspector. Page 315 of 390 from a job that had been cancelled in 1985 and decided to use it for a boiler being built to the 1995 edition of Section I. Code Case 2053 was intended to relieve economic hardship and allow old material in inventory to be used up. it was found that a number of requirements had been deleted in the 1995 version. they were challenged by the receiving plant's quality control inspectors because the list of acceptable specifications in Table ED-1 of Section II. The certified material test reports for the old tubes showed that the sulfur content was just over the new 0. he dropped all further objections to the use of the old tubes. and the provisions of Table ED-1 of Section II. Code Case 2053. it would not be possible to demonstrate that the old material met the requirements of one of the currently acceptable versions of the SA-178 specification listed in Appendix A. Upon careful review of the 1985 and 1995 specifications. Part A went back only as far as the 1989 SA-178 specification. and the permitted chemistry ranges for sulfur and phosphorous had been reduced to 0. new ones would have to be purchased. respectively.035% limit for at least some of the tubes. and there is some sentiment among the Committee members to let it expire.035% from the 1985 values of 0. Code Case 2053 has been annulled. Thus. if the old tubes could not be used. on the grounds that sufficient time has been allowed to exhaust the old stocks of material. A caveat should be offered here. and the job would suffer costly delay. and which was produced to an edition earlier than current edition. Code Cases have a limited life. As indicated above.050%.060% and 0. was written to provide relief for just this sort of situation. It is unlikely that the case will ever be incorporated into the text of the Code. Moreover. dealing with materials in inventory. Parts A and B should cover most cases where a manufacturer wishes to use material in inventory. When the old tubes were shipped from one of the company's plants to another.

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STATIC EQUIPMENT GROUP .FABRICATION POSTS .

and for fillet welds radiography cannot be performed.. 2011 at 8:36am · Like Static Equipment Group ..2 it is 2 hr. December 8. i have a reservation.December 8. in both codes holding temperature is 595°C. This is not the case for Div..2 is handling thick vessels its retention time will be more. atleast for Body flange.... 2011 at 7:01pm · Like Hemant Solanki If I am joining slip on flange with shell. email 2011 at 9:44pm via · Like Mrudang Mehta Hi. FYI. if it is O&G related equipment.. This is my purview. go for cat-B else cat-C for SORF..1 is 1 hr/ inch but as per Div.1 equipment.. what will be the weld category of that joint as per code? Category C or Category B?slip on flange will always be fillet welded to the connecting shell. 2011 at 11:32pm · Like Mrudang Mehta 1. 2011 at 8:15pm · Like Manish Shukla If the shell is seamless. if shell is seamless go for cat-C else cat-B for SORF December 8. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 10. email December 8. ususally SO joints are not used. so not sure who it will help.....1 its retention time will be more than 240 minutes and as per Div.. with this if I have 100 mm thick vessel then As per Div." December 18. Roy C category.. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 8. as Div..in O&G SO is prohibited.6 min/inch above excess of 50mm thickness.. + 0. 2011 at 7:36pm Amarnath C.. that's why it's holding time is kept more. Due to this ASME has intentionally kept holding time less as that equipment will again go for simulation heat treatment in it's working life. December 8.firstly shell to body flange joint is Cat-C. Page 317 of 390 Hemant Solanki PWHT retention time as per Div. Purav Desai "For Div. 2011 at 9:43pm via · Like Manish Shukla Sorry.. its vice versa. 2...Weld neck is preferable December 9. Please clarify if anyone have idea about this difference. Can anybody tell why this much difference in PWHT retention time of both codes. 2011 at 7:46pm · Like Ye KeTah La shell to pipe is D category and pipe to flange is C December 8.Facebook . only die penetrant can be done. 2 equipment simulation heat treatment is mandatory during working life of equipment. 2011 at 10:31am Hemant Solanki One view on this is shared by Mr. This category are important for radiography consideration based on which joint efficiency is selected. 2011 at 11:35pm · Like Ye KeTah La agreed with mrudangmetha.2 it will be only 150 minutes.

Page 318 of 390 Hemant Solanki Flange to shell connection is always Category C. ??? Does anybody come across this issue. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 21. Rohitash Singh Panwar and 5 others like this Vishal Patil This may not be true in case of cladded tubesheet extended for flange…May 15.Most of us may be knowing that when we do PWHT due to service requirements we can take advantage of 17 degree reduction in MDMT below which impact testing is required as per UCS-66. we use confined joints at tubesheet and if we machine the flange. I have written this statement like this to only state that the reduction value in both units are different. future machining allowance when required." Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 14. Weld Categories are defined in accordance with the nature of the principal stress at the weld joint due to internal pressurization. 2012 at 4:48pm Mitul Patel.Facebook . for heat exchangers. Whether it is fillet weld or butt weld does not matter.8°C).g. SA-516-60 material is exempted from impact testing upto -15°F(-26°C) according to Curve C of Fig. We should not relate with each other with conversion formula. 2012 at 11:25pm via mobile Hemant Solanki According to UCS-68(c) in faranhit 30 and in centigrade 17 reduction can be done if we perform PWHT on steel. Till now. Category C joints are oriented parallel to the direction of maximum stress created by pressure containment. 2012 at 7:14pm via mobile · Like Patel Sajit As per appendix-GG. is to be added in tubesheet and channel cover gasket face and NOT on the flanges.April 22. But. Just reduced that reduction factors from both corresponding temperature units….8 + 32 general formula…April 24. clause GG-3 when there is temp. 2011 at 7:08pm · Like Mitul Patel I observed one new thing in ASME code in UCS-68(C).8 and when simple temp conversion then use temp/1.Please share your views. we will end up with the deeper groove and joint can not be tightened. I used to add machining allowance (3 mm) on the gasket face of flange. e. So. 2012 at 9:11pm · Like Static Equipment Group .6 F. UCS-66. recently i come to know that. Just come to know very interesting point regarding heat exchanger design & want to share in the forum. 2012 at 4:28pm via mobile · Like · 1 Purav Desai Hi Friends. Kiran Gawade. for heat exchangers. to comply above requirement. differance use conversion as devide 1. December 18.Now the interesting part comes code says reduction of 17'C (30' F) but if you convert 17 degree C to degree F you will get 62. Now if we perform PWHT then as per UCS-68(c) this exemption temperature can be reduced to -45°F(-42. "Recently almost all the clients requires future machining allowance (3 mm) on the heat exchanger body flanges made from CS/LAS material.

2012 at 8:14am · Like Vishal Patil Gasket faces of both the sides get corroded. Division 1 (1992 Edition. when one of the plant decided to use old equipment after feasibility test…. because during the matching of gasket faces both sides will get deepened.May 23."…May 18. thats why i mentioned for carbon steel & low alloy steel material. Does the term "heat treated subsequently" mean just after forming and prior to any other operation? Reply (1): No. 2012 at 3:36am · Like Purav Desai "In case of extended type of tubesheet. 2012 at 4:53am · Like Ankur Gupta And there would be no problem in bolt tighetening (Flange & Tube Sheet) if you consider future matching allowance only on Flange…. then in that case.May 23.May 23. also calls for future matchining allowance 6mm…. I have experienced this problem. In case of extended type of tubesheet. both faces must be machined at the same time. This type of overlays are not prefered because pron to leaks. then will PWHT in accordance with UCS-56 satisfy the Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 8:49pm · Like Purav Desai Dear Vishal. Page 319 of 390 Purav Desai Dear Vishal.. 2012 at 3:37am · Like Ankur Gupta Purav. any how one has to add double future matching allowance on tubsheet extended if machining of flange bolting section is not to done. And yes.tubesheet and flanges after prolong time of operations. UCS-79(d) Date Issued: March 13.. I sent this understanding in that regards only. weld overlay is to be provided on the flange face and then that overlayed face machined to achieve the required surface finish. it will occur when u machine confined joint flange of heat exchanger.…May 18. Question (2): If Reply (1) is no. 2012 at 4:55am · Like Purav Desai Dear Ankur.May 17. because during the matching of gasket faces both sides will get deepened.. 1993 Addenda). hence client ask for future matching on both sides of gasket. any how one has to add double future matching allowance on tubsheet extended if machining of flange bolting section is not to done. Can you elaborate the below para. Read carefully.May 16. If the future machining allowance not provided on flange. This is required to achieve the surface finish required for the specific gasket type.. Division 1. Its time consuming process. 2012 at 5:21pm · Like Hemant Solanki Interpretation for dish end stress relieveing Interpretation: VIII-1-95-50 Subject: Section VIII. So when it needs to machine the gasket faces to avoid leaks. 1995 File: BC94-684 Question (1): A cold formed head has to be heat treated to fulfill the requirements of UCS- 79(d) in Section VIII. Just draw it on paper & you will come to know…..Facebook . or may get separated from surface of flange. problem of tightening will not occur now. SADARA MFC Project Spec.

July 17. 2012 at 8:44am via mobile · Like Naresh Thakur There are many other companies. 2012 at 8:37pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .e. email July 17. 2012 at 7:39am Naresh Thakur Yes we can with special arrangment provided for load bearing parts and heavier parts... Advantage : Take less installation time (At a time from top as well as bottom. less chance of injury due to spanner fall from top. wherever. At column vendor shop or at site?. email July 17. The bolting arrangment will change…July 17. 2012 at 8:39am via mobile · Like Hiren Javia for normal tray it is quite difficult to install in horizontal position because its paripherial clamps may slide on tsr July 17.Facebook . Also share ur views regarding installation place i.July 17.. only few reputed vendor will agree for the tray to be installed in horizontal position. 2012 at 1:34pm via · Like Krishna Desai YES. No surity of allignment. Page 320 of 390 requirements of UCS-79(d) following welding of the head to the vessel? Reply (2): Yes. Purav Desai Can we install trays in horizontal position of column? Please reply with possible advantage/disadvantage and safety aspect. 2012 at 3:41pm · Like Hiren Javia as per my opinion if schdule is not so compact then go for site installation…July 17.. 2012 at 8:06am via · Like Hiren Javia koch-glitsch has special design for horizontal installation called horizon. May chance of damage to tray of tray parts during lifting. July 17.. 2012 at 2:59pm · Like · 2 Purav Desai Thank you for reply. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 17. Dis advantage : will affect the design of lifting & tailing lug design. 2012 at 4:39pm via mobile · Like Manoj Prasad We can install but internal vendor confirmation required…July 17. Ventilation is very easy in some complex columns . Also. 2012 at 3:38pm via mobile · Like Mihir Jha Positive cost impact will be given by tray vendor. no need to make arrangement to trasport trays to top from ground. two team can install). have to spend time on intigrity and alignment check. sloted joints used may chances of largets / smallest allowance due to one side weight of trays.

Facebook . · The downcomers shall be installed first followed by inlet panels and the active panels. how much thickness is reduce in Base metal and Cladding metal? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1..July 20. 2012 at 5:04am · Like Static Equipment Group . after erection of the column. different metals will have different levels of metal loss and thickness reduction because of their condition or inherent softness . · The column should be rotated and kept so that the downcomers shall be in the horizontal position for single as well as double pass trays. But email installation in vertical condition is convenient for installer. · The supports should be dimensionally checked and ensured as per the drawings.August 3. Also take care additional load for lifting crane. I think atlest now we should confirm some of the technical matters instead of asking vendor everytime…. 2012 at 1:19am via · Like Hemant Nikam U can installed but u can't take level if slope required or not required as 0 0. If machining is required to meet close dimensional tolerances (such as a tubesheet for example). After the bonding takes place. 2012 at 10:00pm Mihir Jha During the process of explosion welding. 2012 at email 3:00pm via · Like · 1 Krishna Desai Manoj. the clad metal surface. So . and final outside diameter may all be machined to final dimensions. These additional spacers are to be removed later by opening TRAY MANWAYS. Further.July 22. 2012 at 1:19am via · Like Maulik R Shah During explosion cladding.July 18. only half the trays should be installed and then the column should be rotated for balance half for better access and easy installation…July 18. But email installation in vertical condition is convenient for installer. · The tray support ring levelness should be ensured in vertical condition at the vessel vendors shop. 2012 at 4:39pm · Like Pramod Dixit We did it in 1998 at L&T Hazira and the trays were exported to a UK refinery. In the horizontal condition.. Manways shall be closed for all the trays before box-up.steel versus copper for example. both the base metal and cladding metal must undergo surface grinding to remove the mill scale and/or oxides from the mating sides of the two metals prior to bonding. You need to have some additional spacers bolting of trays to maintain spacings and avoid dislodging during column lifting. 2012 at 2:13pm · Like · 3 Hemant Nikam U can installed but u can't take level if slope required or not required as 0 0. Some times total trays weight may increase total lifting load beyond the capacity of the crane…. · For column diameter of more than 2 mt.. the base metal surface.July 22. Only following points are required to take care during installation. Page 321 of 390 Hemant Solanki Tray installation in Vertical position is preferable for ease of installation however tray installation in Horizontal position can be carried out. the plates may undergo further grinding so that the finished clad surface suitable for the customer's application.it depends on the metal combination and the application….

We cannot speak for other explosion cladding company's tolerances during cladding…. Soft and thick materials tend to thin more than hard and thin. 2012 at 2:18pm via · Like Maulik R Shah is there any good bond area required during the explosion cladding?. when bonding copper to stainless. it might go from .August 5. 2012 at 5:30am · Like Hemant Solanki added photos to Typical PWHT Setup. So for example. For example. starting with thicker material and machining after bonding is strongly email recommended….Facebook . Please note that this applies to DMC only. Page 322 of 390 Hemant Solanki Metal Thinning. During the explosive collision the forces tend to squish the thickness of the metals.240" x 12.220" x 12.August 3. DMC would purchase 31. This thinning is a function of the metals฀ initial hardness and thickness. if plate requirement has a 30mm minimum base metal and a 3mm minimum clad metal.25" x 24. Static Equipment Group .12" x 24. we assume that for pressure vessel plate. Since the stainless is harder. 2012 at 9:03pm · Like Mihir Jha DMC Response: Generally speaking.. a .5mm metal loss from the base metal.2"..250" x 12" x 24" copper plate might end up .5mm nominal respectively.250" x 12" x 24" to ..5mm from the cladding metal and about 1. Therefore.25". This guarantees that DMC will not be under the minimum requirement.5mm nominal and 3.August 3. there is a loss of about 0.

Further defects detected by WFMT & radiography are different and both NDE are necessary to be performed. 2012 at 10:44pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hiren Javia most of the specs allowtut with permenant records in place of RT. we can take pad type nozzle and 100 % radography is for C-seam & L-seam of shell and head only? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 25. In the above case. so if your specs allow no need to go for leap type nozzle….e lip type construction for weld category D joints i.1. nozzles shall be lip type nozzle as per Fig. Except as otherwise specified by the Company. Lip type nozzle is required only if the client is mentioned in the spec. B &C ) to be 100% radiographed. Nozzles and manway attachment welds shall be examined by wet magnetic particle methods….July 25.e. b. Page 323 of 390 Mihir Jha As per project spec.5 NDT for Welded Joints a. FOr example. Nozzle and manway attachment welds shall be examined by wet magnetic particle method is mentioned in the same project spec.e Lip type nozzle . all butt welded joints (Cat. 2012 at 11:27am Mitul Patel In one of the recent project we have similar requirement for hydrogen lethal and cyclic service. 2012 at 9:28am · Like Mihir Jha Please refer above the exact statement from the spec. Hence for 100% radiography. 2012 at 6:55pm via mobile · Like · 1 Purav Desai Meaning of 100% radiography is that all butt welds in the vessel shall be radiographed and exemptions of UW-11(4) for nozzles are NOT ALLOWED.One code case is also there for this.. For other query of let me assume that you mean to say Wet Fluorescent Magnetic Particle Test (WFMT) and not wet magnetic particle method.July 26. Saudi aramco spec says to use lip type for 100% radiography…. UW-16. 2012 at 7:36pm · Like · 1 Hiren Javia in one of the column with cyclic and wet h2s service vendor has done paut for all category d joint…. Hence the clause referred by you does not mean that you can use nozzle with pad in sour service equipment with 100% radiography requirement…July 25. If the client wants Lip forgings and radiography of nozzle attachment welds.1 f(1) to f(4).July 25. Does it mean. all pressure vessel specified for sour service shall be 100 % Radiographed? Does it mean we have to take lip type nozzle as per ASME Code? Another query. My understanding is that for 100% radiography.. Saudi Aramco Spec has cleary mention that for 100% radiography Lip type nozzle to be provided.July 25. For Category D.July 26. Client Spec should clearly mention. In addition. all internal weld surfaces shall be examined by the wet fluorescent magnetic particle method. nozzle and manway attachment weld shall be by wet magnetic particle Static Equipment Group . But some special UT techniques like TOFD and PAUT can be used inplace of radiographable joint i.Check your specification that UT inplace of RT is allowed or not.Facebook . 2012 at 9:33am · Like Mihir Jha Purav Desai 100 % Radiography does not mean that we have to use Category D to be butt type i. Now a day’s fluorescent particles are used in MPT to get better visibility but it cannot be related with selection of nozzle in Sour Service equipment. all pressure vessels specified for sour service shall be 100% radiographed..Generalpractise is go for lip type construction for 100% radiography…. A. it needs to be mentioned on drawings and specifications. 2012 at 10:46pm via mobile · Like · 1 Mihir Jha 17.

Also if client ask specifically for the same then it is ok. the removal of residual stress is not the only consideration for the application of post weld heat treatment…June 19. the range is 13 – 20 mm. the greater the amount of residual stress that will be developed on cooling. Purav Desai Refer to ASME Section II .July 27.. pearlitic or bainitic structures. depending on the cooling rate. In addition. but little has changed over the past 30 years..June 19. that with alloy steels. the thicker the material that is welded.. 2012 at 6:51am · Like Hemant Solanki Yes For Sour service it is not required to provide lip type construction.but it should be always discussed before selecting as it is cost issue..D Non Mandatory Appendix . 100% radiography means every joint should be tested for its entire length so that equipment can be stamped as RT-1…. instead vendors can opt for TOFD method which is industry and code accepted. Even though 100% radiography is mentioned we can carry out other NDT on joints which does not have access for radiography.In my opinion in cyclic service it is advisable to go always for lip type. With alloy steels.. So. The reason for each standard choosing a specific thickness is not entirely clear..if spec does not governs. Page 324 of 390 methods. The material (in terms of alloy content) and the thickness (in relation to the quench effect) control the microstructure that will be formed. the thickness at which post weld heat treatment becomes mandatory is consistent in the 32 – 38 mm range for most of the Codes. 2012 at 8:27pm · Like Static Equipment Group .July 27. the thickness at which post weld heat treatment becomes mandatory is much less. and this is usually controlled by the use of preheat. RT is not mandatory for Nozzle and Manway attachment hence lip type nozzle is not required…. 2012 at 8:29pm · Like · 1 Madhusudhan Shetty selection of lip type configuration is not mandatory only for the reason of radiography. What is interesting though is that experiments conducted in the mid-1970s showed that fully restrained butt welds in carbon-manganese steels could develop residual stresses in excess of the yield stress at a thickness of approximately 35 mm. 2012 at 9:23pm Harry Chacko likes this.) Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 18.even 16 mm for some P no. For typical carbon-manganese steels. a series of strict conditions have to be met before post weld heat treatment can be waived.(irrespective of thickness.August 21. we prefer for lip type construction in case pressure is high. 2012 at 9:01am · Like Hemant Solanki The requirement for post weld heat treatment is largely a function of the material and the thickness. Section A-250…. 2012 at 10:36pm · Like Rajendra Sharma Dear friends Please suggest the reasons of doing PWHT for all LAS material. Even under lethal service we can go with reinforcement pads and full radiography…July 27. Large section thicknesses in alloy steels can result in martensitic.Facebook ..A. Typically. It is clear therefore. and even below 13 mm.. 2012 at 8:44pm · Like Rupesh Ubale Rule of thumb is that normally for Lethal or when thickness of shell exceeds 50 mm or cyclic loading.

service is lethal and base metal is CS then PWHT is mandatory.Facebook . July 19. July 19. in your case base metal csthk.August 21. Chetan Patel Mihir in your case due to service requirement cladding has been provided on base metal . the postweld heat treatment shall be that specified in either of Tables UHA-32 or UCS-56. which ultimately could result in failure of the vessel. Hemant Solanki and chetan patel. also. for the material requiring the higher postweld temperature. is 14 mm which is not falling under pwht requirement as per UCS requirement of cl. MOC is CS+316L SS Clad.In your case. . 2012 at 1:13pm · Like Purav Desai Please also refer Caution note just at the start of UCL-34.Based on the requirement of UW-2(a) when our service is lethal and our material is carbon steel or low alloy steel. But since my column is cladded with SS 304 L so PWHT is not applicable per UW-2. hence PWHT is not reuired. is 14 mm. July 19. it is clear mentin that if the base metal i. . Page 325 of 390 Rupesh Ubale Thanks…. July 19. PWHT is mandatory. ―Postweld heat treatment may be in the carbide-precipitation range for unstabilized austenitic chromium–nickel steels. in addition to hemant suggestion please check that your spec. 2012 at 11:51am · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki . is asking for base metal pwht as in most of pmc spec. . the service is Lethal. Do PWHT to be carried out as per ASME? Please give the clause reference to the spec. 2012 at 11:12pm · Like Mihir Jha In one column.So In your case PWHT holding temperature shall be as per 316L SS requirement (Table UHA-32). So inspite of lethal service for this case PWHT is not required.According to UHA-32 (c) When pressure parts of two different P-Number groups are joined by welding. so base metal do not require PWHT. is not demanding for pwht of base metal in case of compatible cladding provision.As per UCL-34 (a) PWHT shall be provided to cladded vessel when base metal have PWHT requirement. with applicable notes. 2012 at 1:10pm · Like Chetan Patel Your interpretation is right. . 2012 at 1:00pm · Like Mihir Jha As per my code interpretation. If you refer clause UCL-34 for PWHT requirement for CS+Clad. as well as within the range where a sigma phase may form. ucl-34 for cladded equipment.e CS require PWHT (Only Thickness is the criteria not service) then vessel to be done PWHT. But since the thickness is less than 38 mm. For this the determining thickness shall be the base metal thickness. for lethal service PWHT is mandatory for carbon or low alloy steel. and if used indiscriminately could result in material of inferior physical properties and inferior corrosion resistance. please give ur view on my explaination. . PWHT shall be carried out after application of corrosion resistant cladding/lining unless exempted by the notes of Table-UCS-56.‖ Static Equipment Group .As per UCL-34 (b) Vessels that are integrally clad or lined with Type 405 or 410S & welded with an austenitic electrode or non-air hardening Ni-Cr-iron electrode need not be post weld heat treated unless required by UCL-34 (a). Because 595° C is the minimum holding temperature required for CS and 760° is minimum holding temperature required for SS. Mihir Jha CS shell thk.

NO PWHT required. Also consider there is No SS cladding. Here also the same safety aspect can apply. Still ASME committee has decided that there may be chance of this phenomenon takes place. . It is logical to ask why to carry out PWHT when we can avoid it as lethal fluid will be in contact with SS part. Division 1 (1995 Edition). in that case holding temperature will be 590°C. I would like to know what PWHT procedure fabricator follows in such instance. UCL-34. 2nd instance : Now consider Lethal service (As per UW-2 substance which is hazardous to health and need not to be leak out from vessel). But I do not think that for 3 to 4 mm cladding this much effect will be there. So even though we are covering CS with SS clad still CS HAZ will going through this residual stresses and in order to relieve this PWHT is required.Facebook . Question (2): Are the requirements of UW-2(a) superseded by the provisions of UCL-34 and UCL-35? Reply (2): No. As we cannot take risk in terms of leakage of fluid mostly we prefer for PWHT for this equipment. 3rd instance : Now consider Mihir’s equipment.VIII-1 Interpretation: VIII-1-95-137 Subject: Section VIII. is 480°). Let’s take Mihir’s equipment. FYI. In other words How to avoid sensitization in ss clad during PWHT? Manan Shah Dear all Code Interpretations . Normal service). Every point stated from code here is Valid. I would like to discuss this point in other way. So as far as logic is considered it is not required but still most of the client ask for PWHT as a safety measure. This phenomenon is more applicable in Caustic service. As far as service is considered base material is not in direct contact with fluid. already clad material is provided to resist. CS with SS cladding. So may be Purav’s point I will discuss further after my study of PWHT procedure. UW-2(a). So ASME mandated it for CS and LAS equipment. Because above 38 mm thk fully restrained butt welds in carbon-manganese steels could develop residual stresses in excess of the yield stress. So for Caustic service always PWHT is mandatory. Now again thickness is less than 38 mm still why PWHT is required? Here the stress corrosion cracking phenomenon comes into the picture. Page 326 of 390 I feed that due to above reason. If 40 mm thk CS with SS cladding will be there any how we have opted for PWHT. July 19. I am studying it’s PWHT procedure. July 19.e. 1st instance : Let’s consider there is No lethal service (i. PWHT for clad vessels shall only be considered based on thickness criteria of base metal and not the service requirement. Since thickness is less than 38 mm. 2012 at 3:30pm · Like Hemant Solanki Dear All. So any how SS cladding will be in sensitization zone (Sensitization temp. in one of my recent project we have also provided PWHT for such equipment. Division 1 for performing full radiography and postweld heat treatment on vessels which are to contain lethal substances applicable regardless of the calculated pressure and thickness for the vessel? Reply (1): Yes. 1997 File: BC96-334 Question (1): Are the requirements in UW-2(a) of Section VIII. Which is CS (14 thk) + 304L clad + Lethal service. For Lethal service this phenomenon is not much in effect. Purav’s point is valid. and UCL-35 Date Issued: January 2. Also no SS cladding. As far as service is concerned. 2012 at 9:38pm · Like Static Equipment Group .

Some problem is there so it is not showing interpretation which I want to post. 2012 at 9:04pm via mobile · Like Rupesh Ubale PWHT (for P1 materials anyway) is done between 595. UW-2(a) Date Issued: September 24. Division 1 (1992 Edition). Interpretation: VIII-1-92-92 Purav Desai Interpretation: VIII-1-92-92 Subject: Section VIII. I would also like to specify few interpretation which will throw more light on this issue. So still it is not clear whether sensitization phenomenon should look into this or not. Interpretation: VIII-1-92-92 Hemant Solanki Thanks Purav.Facebook . In case of SS solution annealing @ 1060-1120°C followed by water quenching. That’s why we mostly prefer these grades for cladding purpose. 1992 File: BC92-246 Question: A vessel is constructed of 316L SS and is designated for lethal service.which is also refered in UCL-34(a).640°C which is in the sensitization range (500°-800°C)for austenitic stainless steel. But even though SS cladding is there vendor has kept holding temperature upto 620°C. Division 1? Reply: Yes. One end closure is a carbon steel (SA-105) blind flange to which a 316L stainless steel liner covering the entire raisedface area has been attached by welding. which could result in material of inferior physical properties and inferior corrosion resistance. In addition to interpretation posted by Manan. In addition to Interpretation: VIII-1-92-92 also refer below interpretation.Therefore Corrosion test to perform to ensure overlay/clad corrosion resistance behavior in its service in acc with ASTM-262 after PWHT. Mitul Patel PWHT is required as per last line of Table UCS-56 of P1 material. 2012 at 3:04pm · Like Hemant Solanki I have gone through PWHT procedure followed by Vendor in one of our Project. Interpretation: VIII-1-98-108 (This interpretation need to verify as I have not seen such practice in use) Hemant Solanki Using low carbon grade SS (304L/316L) or Stabilized grade SS (321/347) is useful when particularly lengthy heat treatment is required to perform on equipment. Does the blind flange require PWHT as noted in UW-2(a) of Section VIII. But even though SS cladding is there vendor has kept holding temperature upto 620°C. please suggest for correction or improvement) August 29. It does not allow to deplete chromium so sensitization effect will not take place. Remedy: Stabilizing heat treatment. In addition to interpretation posted by Manan. as well as within the range where a sigma Static Equipment Group . (I am not expert in this. 2012 at 12:26am · Like Hemant Solanki As per UCL-34 cautionary note Postweld heat treatment may be in the carbide-precipitation range for unstabilized austenitic chromium–nickel steels. which ultimately could result in failure of the vessel. I would also like to specify few interpretation which will throw more light on this issue. July 20. Page 327 of 390 Hemant Solanki I have gone through PWHT procedure followed by Vendor in one of our Project. So still it is not clear whether sensitization phenomenon should look into this or not. July 24.

As a result the cooling rate of the deposited weld metal allows it to become more evenly fused with the parent metal. In general the higher the preheat temperature and the lower the heat input.More than 0.Prior to welding like dampness or in cold condition etc. So I think before carrying out PWHT on cladded equipment it is always advisable to perform that cycle on production test coupon. Hemant Solanki Weld Pre-Heating : Interesting post from Material -Welding google group Preheating protects structures made of metals which have a high conductivity rate. prepares metal to make it more receptive to welding. Page 328 of 390 phase may form. hopefully contributing to higher quality welds Theminimum preheating temperature to be assured to avoid cracking depends on the following factors: 1. which conduct heat quickly and suck heat away from weld metals causing them to cool faster than normal.Facebook . the weld and parent metals do not have the time to fuse properly so once again you end up with an uneven joint.Carbon content . Pre-heatingeven with 100 deg C. Whatweld pre heating does is it reduces the rate at which this heat exchange takes place. It also properly removes the components which cause weld porosity and hydrogen cracking. and with the rigidity of the welded structure because of the derived constraints. preheating uses a carefully adjusted application of heat to areas affected by the welding process.More than 0.40% and if you are using E 6013 type electrodes 2.Carbon equivalent . When this happens. copper and aluminum alloy. These are metals such as carbon steel.Condition of base metal . The importance ofpreheating increases with the thickness of the base metal because of the rapidself quench capability. which ultimately could result in failure of the vessel. Static Equipment Group .35% and if you are using same Rutile coated electrodes 3. the conditions are more favorable for limiting martensite formation and its hardness. and if used indiscriminately could result in material of inferior physical properties and inferior corrosion resistance. This controlled application is what allows the fusing of weld and parent metals to happen smoothly and to preserve the integrity of the metal. Therefore weld preheating is the key to prevention of frequent and costly repairs.

Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 30.More than 20 mm or above. avoid it at the lower segment and if they still insist up on it. Mitul Patel Seamless head to spot radiographed shell.. 2012 at 10:59am via Email Arpita Shah and Rohitash Singh Panwar like this. 2012 at 8:23pm · Like · 1 Arpita Shah http://www.. It is an additional operation and fabrication cost may go up.Hydrogen available risk.com/asme-pressure-vessel-joint-efficiencies.Due to moisture level. November 19. Members please correct me if i am wrong. if it is a CS with low carbon level and if the thickness is less than 20 mm Pre heating can be avoided. Pre heating can done by various methods including gas burners.Higher restrain level in the joint fit up 6.inspection-for-industry..html Static Equipment Group . Seamless head joint efficiency shall be considered 1 if head to shell junction is minimum spot radiographed.and other elements which are stress risers and may cause cracks due to martensite formation in the HAZ .Alloy content . it could be done at extra payment if not covered by your agreement. Page 329 of 390 4. . sea-coastal area or if the humidity level on the higher level 7.Thickness of base material . But.It is come under RT-4 OR RT-3?Similarly 100% RT comes under RT-1 OR RT-4? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 19.. Hence .Facebook . In that case that equipment will be RT-2 stamped. Also long seam of shell shall be considered with joint efficiency equal to 1 if connecting circumferential seams are minimum spot radiographed. If above is violated than it shall be RT-4 as it will not lie in definition of other radiography.Constraint level . Use E 7018/ E 7016 type electrodes if required and avoid pre-heating at critical areas. 2012 at 7:59pm via mobile Hemant Solanki 100% RT comes under RT-1.Cr-Mo. 5.

85.WHEN THE SPOT RADIOGRAPHY OF UW. 2012 at 11:00am via · Like Hemant Solanki Mitul. 2012 at 7:19pm · Like Hemant Solanki Mihir. Others please comment.. So in that case you have to stamp this equipment with RT-4 stamp.See More November 20.85 eventhough it's seamless head.11(a)(5)(b) REQUIREMENTS ARE MET……‖ So in that case what I have explained is correct. in your case if you stamp equipment with RT-3 requirement then you have to design head with E=0. here you have to check head minimum thickness with E=0. to take credit of E=1 in head .com The ASME Pressure Vessel Joint Efficiencies article provides information about p.85 for head calculation and accordingly minimum head thickness should be satisfied eventhough you are using seamless head.November 20. as now it is mixture of RT-2 and RT-3.. So in that case you should stamp with RT-4. 2012 at 7:58pm via · Like Hemant Solanki Typical sequence of operations for fabrication of a pressure vessel Static Equipment Group . If I opted No radiography option for shell to head joint then in that case E shall be 0.. we should perform minimum spot radiography on shell to head joint. But if you want to take advantage of seamless construction with E=1 then.. if you are performing all joint with spot radiography requirement then you can stamp with RT-3 .but in that case you have to take E=0. In your case .85 for head even email though we are using seamless head…. 2012 at 8:48am via mobile · Like · 1 · Remove Preview Hemant Solanki UW-12(d) SAYS:―SEAMLESS VESSEL SECTIONS OR HEADS SHALL BE CONSIDERED EQUIVALENT TO WELDED PARTS IN WHICH ALL CATEGORY A WELDS ARE TYPE 1…. email November 20.. Members please correct me if I have missed something in interpreting code requirements….November 20. Page 330 of 390 ASME Pressure Vessel Joint Efficiencies www.Facebook . this will be mixture of RT-2 and RT-3 requirements. But if you want to take credit of E=1 for head then it will be mix up of RT-2 and RT-3 requirements. Even though we use seamless head .inspection-for-industry.

All flush type cleanout fitting and flush type shell connection shall be thermally stress relieved as an assembly prior to installation in the tank shell or after installation into the tank shell if the entire tank is stress relieved. In Appendix A. Appendix J is also applicable for small tank wihich is shop built.1 of API 650 11th edition. Please share your experience. 2012 at 10:23am Static Equipment Group .. All flush type cleanout fitting and flush type shell connection shall be thermally stress relieved as an assembly prior to installation in the tank shell or after installation into the tank shell if the entire tank is stress relieved.7. Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 13.7.Facebook . 2012 at 10:23am · Like Mihir Jha As per clause 5. 2012 at 5:12pm Bhavesh Meshram.4.4 are not required unless they are specified by the purchaser or unless any plate in the unit has a thickness greater than 16 mm. 2012 at 10:23am Mihir Jha I have just found an strange requirement while going through two appendix of API 650. there is requiement A. Samir Jani.4 shall be apply for Appendix J tank. Page 331 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 26..1 of API 650 11th edition.December 17. in API there is no requirement stated in Appendix J regarding stress relief. Like · · Follow Post · Share · December 13. But. Hence Clause 5.7.8 which state that the provision of stress relief specifed in 5. Appendix J size tank shall be less than Appendix A size tank. Mihir Jha As per clause 5. Sachin Pawar and 2 others like this.4..7.. The requirement of stress relief shall be less stringent in Appendix J as compared to Appendix A. Please share your experince about this clause. Please share your experince about this clause. Appendix A is applicable for small tank which is bulit on site. But this clause in not mentioned in Appendix J.

Sometimes clad plate vendor use welded clad plate and it can lead to defects. there is requiement A. But. Appendix J size tank shall be less than Appendix A size tank. Appendix J is also applicable for small tank wihich is shop built... Hence Clause 5.7. If not then in that case there will be no bond strength between these 2 surfaces.. I suggest to go with weld overlaid tubesheet instead of cladded tubesheet. 2012 at 2:42pm via Email Purav Desai Dear Hemant. As per me it is not acceptable.4 are not required unless they are specified by the purchaser or unless any plate in the unit has a thickness greater than 16 mm...Facebook . I never come across the case explained by you but following are the requirement that must be asked to Vendor. 2012 at 5:21pm · Like Hemant Solanki Dear. in API there is no requirement stated in Appendix J regarding stress relief. But our main concern is as there are 2 SS plates going to use. Appendix A is applicable for small tank which is bulit on site. He has proposed to use two clad plates of 8 mm and 5 mm that will be explosion bonded to the base material. 2+SA-240 UNS S32205 clad material. Is anybody came across such alternate in any of your project? What is the requirements needs to take care if we adopt this proposal ? Please share your views.. But while you consider weld overlay you need to decide thickness of weld overlay very carefully considering pass partition groove and minimum required undiluted chemistry of UNS S32205.December 17. Weld overlay for such diameter may be not economical. Further in your case.December 19.8 which state that the provision of stress relief specifed in 5. (2) Shear or Bond strength test shall be conducted in accordance with SA-263. But this clause in not mentioned in Appendix J.7. But what about SS to SS joining ?whether they will also perform explosion process to join SS to SS clad plates. (1) Clad plate shall be one piece means 1 single plate for 8 mm & 1 single plate for 5 mm. 2012 at 10:23am · Like Hemant Solanki Cladded Tubesheet : Alternate Manufacturing In our Project Vendor has proposed below for cladded tubesheet : The tubesheets are made of SA-266 Gr. Please share your experience. In Appendix A.. We understand from our cladding vendor that because of the larger diameter and thickness it will not be possible to carry out explosion bonding using a single clad plate. Also in our acse vendor has taken 8 and 5 mm thickness SS plates in order to achieve 13 mm clad. However your concerns are noted and thanks for that. The tubesheet diameter is 2740 mm and the clad thickness is 12 mm. One SS plate will be boneded to base metal through explosion process. The final dimensions will be same as shown in our drawing.4 shall be apply for Appendix J tank. The requirement of stress relief shall be less stringent in Appendix J as compared to Appendix A. SA-264 or SA-265 as applicable. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 19. Page 332 of 390 Mihir Jha I have just found an strange requirement while going through two appendix of API 650. But in explosion process theer will be thickness Static Equipment Group ..

refer doc. What I'm speaking about is typically a clad layer of 40mm+.December 20. 2012 at 3:48pm · Like Hemant Solanki Thanks Mihir Jha.. Another is shear testing of the cladded plate. Multi-layer clads are very common but not as a means to build up thickness..com December 21. If they are in the Asia region... We can put together an acceptable means of making this clad. with this machine weld overlay is done in very accurate manner and it will be economical also.pdf http://www2. First reason.. 2012 at 6:12pm · Like Purav Desai I visited few well known vendor shop here in korea and come to know that now a days they have high technology strip cladding machine.sandvik.. our Vendor is within India.December 19. as explosion cladding of two plates of the same material is normally easy to obtain.Facebook .sandvik.. if you have pass partition gasket groove then the first layer will get removed during grooving operation at groove and the surface between two clad plates will get exposed to liquid. chances of corrosion between the layers can not be denied.. DMC would recommend cladding this as a single thickness of 12mm or greater into protect the minimum thickness of the tubesheet/cover..December 20. with stainless steel / Cu clads or carbon steel / Ti clads. 2012 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like Vishal Patil I think we shall not allow to do this.sandvik. Weld overlay is the best option. If its H2S or any other service where crevices are not allowed then this is the major problem. Please clarify what should do in above situation ?. 2012 at 7:07pm · Like Vishal Patil If weld overlayed by DSS.. I will check and let you know. post weld heat treatment is ncessary.nsf/266bc9ad3a821442c1256e970030c 378/ecd132de31b33bd085256bd5006d666b/$FILE/Welding%20Practice%20for%20Sandvik%20Duplex .... I am the appropriate contact..December 20.g. that your Static Equipment Group .http://www2. So vendor should procure 1 to 2 mm higher thicknesses to achieve 13 mm after bonding. This is a flawless operation. From a cost perspective you would choose this option only if the cladder thickness is so big. Only visual test from front end of tubesheet will not be sufficient to check the status of corrosion level.com/sandvik/0140/Internet/se01280.. BTW.December 19. As vendor proposal in ur case is not easily digestive try to get an alternative quote for weld overlaid tubesheet. I would offer to have your vendor contact DMC directly if they want.. We have done this e. 2012 at 12:15am · Like · 1 Mihir Jha Opinion from Jason Carter Of Delta Clad Company: I would take the position that this is not the recommended path for getting to 12mm of thickness for 2205.... Page 333 of 390 reduction . Two shear test will appear one for Base metal to clad plate and another between clad plates.com/sandvik/0140/Internet/se01280. 2012 at 12:03am · Like · Remove Preview Mihir Jha refer another reply from expert in this field : building up thicker layers of clad material in several steps is a general option that we have used frequently. Which ASTM shear test they are going to follow? SA 263/264 are applicable for base metal to clad material but not between clad materials.nsf/266bc9ad3a821442c125 6e970030c378/ecd132de3 www2.. Cladding 2205 in general requires greater than normal care with the cladding process due to its strength and sensitivity to thermal treatments.

as this will result in hardening of the micro structure.. particularly in the HAZ. A 12mm SA-240 2205 cladder is definetly not a big challenge and should be clad with a single plate.January 9 at 1:15pm · Like Rahul Chavan Can anybody knows. you should consider looking for another one! Regarding your project: I wonder what base material thickness of the SA-266Gr. even at slow cooling rates. Static Equipment Group . can be hardened by rapid cooling of the weld. To increase toughness.Reason Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 13 at 1:58pm Hemant Solanki Both Tempering and PWHT is carried out below lower critical temperature line A1.. Also a diameter of 2740mm is nothing unusual. Quenched steels are very brittle. If your vendor can't handle this. Tempering is done on plates which are quenched rapidly. Michael .I'm curious what decision the project made in cladding these tubesheets. So PWHT is carried out below tempering temp to avoid tempering effect on weld joint….. Can you please share with the group? Please provide the latest update.S.linkedin. This is a major problem for low and medium alloy steels containing chrome and any other constituent that slow the austenite/ferrite transformation down.linkedin.March 13 at 2:13pm · Like · 4 Maulik R Shah Is it possible to formed the Dish from forging by forming process?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 14 at 1:22pm SenthilAnbazhagan likes this.2 you are going to use?.. PWHT of weld joints diminishes such Tempering effect. Which is called as Tempering effect. As far as your query is concerned PWHT is done on weld joints of equipment. Page 334 of 390 process can't cope with it. The microstructure. We have asked vendor to provide cladding from one single plate of minimum thickness of 13 mm.com/groups/In-our-Project-Vendor-has- 4058719.. <br> We understand from our cladding vendor that because of the large.December 21.com is 12 mm.. In our Project Vendor has proposed below for cladded tubesheet : The tubesheets are made of SA-266.197623573?qid=cd862f65-3f75-47d3-b7b0-ffe90505669a&trk=group_most_recent_rich-0-b- ttl&goback=%2Egmr_4058719 . they are heat treated below A1 and then cooled to producethe desired property of strength and good toughness. 2012 at 3:06pm · Like Mihir Jha Hemant Solanki http://www.See More January 9 at 7:44am · Like · Remove Preview Hemant Solanki Client has finally rejected to manufacture cladding from two plate. www.. Please refre the link where i posted your query.. Why maximum PWHT temp for CS and Low alloy steel materials shall be at least 20°C less than tempering temp? ..Facebook . During welding also there is chance of weld joints faces such tempering cycle.. Mr.

March 14 at 1:58pm · Like · 3 Purav Desai Hi Krunal. I am quite sure that interviewer wanted to hear as per attached photo for 304 and 304L. Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 3 at 5:01am via mobile Ramdas Kadam. It is based on the sizes of the dish. Rohitash Singh Panwar and Chetan Patel like this. Division 1.Facebook . Its from henry bedner book. Refer UF-13 requirement in ASME Sec.. Page 335 of 390 SenthilAnbazhagan Yes. 4 or P-No. Small disches can be made using forging…. VIII-Div. 5A Tube-to- Tubesheet Seal Welds Section VIII.. Static Equipment Group .March 14 at 1:45pm · Like Hemant Solanki Yes. Purav Desai Case 2321-1 Exemption FromPostweld Heat Treatment for P-No.1….

So it is simillar to PWHT cycle. How to decide whether to provide or not? Based on customer specs only? ? ? And this means stress generation due to welding in vicinity of base mtrl n HAZ has no effect? Y? ? And also why mandatory 4 csmtrl above 38 mm?? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · April 15 at 12:17pm via mobile Tejas Shah Solution annealing…April 15 at 1:26pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki AsTejas has rightly mentioned for SS it is solution annealing. For stress relieving it is required to heat above 620°C and then cool. it is neither mandatory nor prohibited. As far as stress relieving is concerned it is required for SS parts if fibre elongation exceeds 20%. As prolonged exposure to above 420°C will sensitize SS so generally it is not preffered to do such treatment on it. because as its name states it decompose cabides and dissipitatecromoum into solid solution of austinitic phase. If require solution annealing shall be done.Facebook . as above 20% rupture strength of SS decreases. Krunal Solanky whypwht is not reqd for ss materials(p no. Page 336 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 15 at 10:21am Ramdas Kadam. As here also prolonged exposure is there but at end it will provide refined material. ? ? As per UHA-32. Kiran Gawade and Hemant Nikam like this. Static Equipment Group .

3 above 32 mm PWHt is mandate. Static Equipment Group .. Swapnil Deshmukh. Manish Shukla and 4 others like this. E.g.April 15 at 8:34pm · Like · 3 Purav Desai Please take care of following while selecting Class of austenitic SS bolts.. Every codes have their own minimum thk above which PWHT becomes mandatory.Facebook . VIII-1 mandate PWHT of CS above 38 mm and other alloy steels above 16 mm...— with Manish Shukla. as per 31. Page 337 of 390 for thickness limitation: above some thickness stresses due to weld will be higher which needs to be relieved. Like · · Follow Post · Share · April 18 at 2:35pm Mihir Jha. etc.

Static Equipment Group . Page 338 of 390 1) Kiran Gawade Erection of 1300T Vessel using tower lift system & 750T crane for Tailing. Rohitash Singh Panwar and 18 others like this.Facebook . Purav Desai. Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 2 at 2:04pm Arpita Shah.

Page 339 of 390 2) Mihir Jha Teflon sliding plate assembly — with Purav Desai and Suraj Kr Tiwari. Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 12 at 9:08am via mobile Purav Desai likes this.

Page 340 of 390 3) Purav Desai Photo of Thin Flexible Tubesheet for your reference Mahadevan Venkiteswaran. Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

VIII Div 1 UCS-79(d). Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Thanks Purav. This has direct relation to cost because as per ASME code holding temperature shall be Static Equipment Group . May 12 at 2:06pm · Like 4) Purav Desai Most of the Owner/PMC specification states that COLD FORMED CARBON STEEL DISHED HEADS SHALL BE NORMALIZED if fiber elongation exceeds limit given in ASME Code and sometimes normalizing is also made mandatory above certain thickness for example EIL states that cold formed dished end above 16 mm thickness shall be normalized. As per ASME Sec. Kiran Gawade.Facebook . Rohitash Singh Panwar and 9 others like this. only heat treatment in accordance with UCS-56 is necessary if fiber elongation exceeds the limits. Page 341 of 390 Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 12 at 10:03am Arpita Shah.

So to get the benefits of grain structure. So temperature will be above recrystallization temperature and holding time shall be as per UCS-56. Normalizing help not only release the residual stress but also refine the grain structure. Page 342 of 390 kept 595 ºC (min. In that process grains gets elongated and will distort its shape.Facebook . So it’s only scaling allowance which needs to consider in hot forming dish end. So its cycle is similar to PWHT (below recrystallization temperature) to only stress relive these junctions (knuckle) where forming is taken place. Cold formed dish end shall always be accompanied with corresponding heat treatment. Scaling is external layers of hot surface which forms due to high temperature operations…. In order to regain its shape normalizing is the only option. Most of PMC specifies Normalizing as option to be on safer side.May 27 at 11:05am Like · 3 Mrudang Mehta Hi Purav.) So my question is Why normalizing is made mandatory by some Owners for cold formed dished ends? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 27 at 10:46am Aniket Sawant likes this. The heat treatment required as per ASME is just stress relieving I. But EIL and Jacobs has decided better criteria to decide when to go with stress relieving and when to go with normalizing cycle. Hot formed dish end shall not. As hot forming itself is similar to ―Cold forming + heat treatment above recrystallization temperature‖. Hemant Solanki Whatever written in UCS-79 is only for stress relieving of dish end as fibre elongation due to forming operation is more. Below 16 mm stress relieving and above 16 mm normalizing.e it will help releasing the residual stress caused during forming process. specs call for Normalizing…May 27 at 11:07am via mobile · Like · 3 5) Mihir Jha Why for instrument nozzles 300 # minimum flange rating has been considered? Like · · Follow Post · Share · May 31 at 7:17am Patel Sudhir likes this. Normalizing will not only relieve those forming stresses but will also help in regaining shape of grains.) for CS material where as if normalizing has to be done holding temperature shall be kept in the range of 850 ºC to 900 ºC (min. Above 16 mm more pressure is required to form dish end. Static Equipment Group . However in some specs (EIL and Jacobs) heat treatment of dish end is decided based on its thickness.

So to cater this requirement. the same can be used for 150# even…May 31 at 7:50am · Like · 1 DushyantVerma To match with instrument flange . strong enough to carry instrument load…May 31 at 12:51pm via mobile · Like · 1 Mrudang Mehta For standardization purpose.e.May 31 at 3:25pm via mobile · Like Abdul Rasyid MK there may high temperature at the instrument hook up pointnt…June 1 at 5:16am via mobile · Like 6) Purav Desai Most of the Owner/PMC specification states that COLD FORMED CARBON STEEL DISHED HEADS SHALL BE NORMALIZED if fiber elongation exceeds limit given in ASME Code and sometimes normalizing is also made mandatory above certain thickness for example EIL states that cold formed dished end above 16 mm thickness shall be normalized. This has direct relation to cost because as per ASME code holding temperature shall be kept 595 ºC (min.and usually instrument flages are minimum of 300 rating i. Most of the clients procure 300# Flanges as a stock for future purpose. As per ASME Sec. Page 343 of 390 Krishna Desai In future. instrument flanges are made minimum 300# rating and above by Instrument vendor and are ready available. So its cycle is similar to PWHT (below recrystallization temperature) Static Equipment Group .) So my question is Why normalizing is made mandatory by some Owners for cold formed dished ends? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 27 at 10:46am Aniket Sawant likes this. only heat treatment in accordance with UCS-56 is necessary if fiber elongation exceeds the limits.) for CS material where as if normalizing has to be done holding temperature shall be kept in the range of 850 ºC to 900 ºC (min. So that. if client wants to connect Instrument system which uses utility air with medium to high pressure.Facebook . there MAY be a deliver impact when ordered….. minimum flange rating considered for instrument connection of PVs is 300#.. Hemant Solanki Whatever written in UCS-79 is only for stress relieving of dish end as fibre elongation due to forming operation is more.. VIII Div 1 UCS-79(d). Below 300# rating.

Hot formed dish end shall not. the given template also not matching in bottom 40 mm cap is there. SF can be accepted. So to get the benefits of grain structure..ID 2000 mm thk 14 nom. Page 344 of 390 to only stress relive these junctions (knuckle) where forming is taken place..over crowning is 40 mm approx…June 1 at 9:49am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . The heat treatment required as per ASME is just stress relieving I. Above 16 mm more pressure is required to form dish end.. Normalizing help not only release the residual stress but also refine the grain structure. But EIL and Jacobs has decided better criteria to decide when to go with stress relieving and when to go with normalizing cycle.. specs call for Normalizing…May 27 at 11:07am via mobile · Like · 3 7) Veera Mani hi..June 1 at 6:03am · Like Veera Mani sir. In order to regain its shape normalizing is the only option. As hot forming itself is similar to ―Cold forming + heat treatment above recrystallization temperature‖. Scaling is external layers of hot surface which forms due to high temperature operations….any possible to accept the dish kindly share your idea. our Qc dept was rejected the dish end due to over crowning and SF 50 also not maintained. In that process grains gets elongated and will distort its shape..May 27 at 11:05am Like · 3 Mrudang Mehta Hi Purav. So it’s only scaling allowance which needs to consider in hot forming dish end. one formed dished head received from sub vendor. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 31 at 11:52pm near Azaiba. Cold formed dish end shall always be accompanied with corresponding heat treatment...e it will help releasing the residual stress caused during forming process.How much is over crowning?. However in some specs (EIL and Jacobs) heat treatment of dish end is decided based on its thickness.can any one give solution.material Cs. Normalizing will not only relieve those forming stresses but will also help in regaining shape of grains.. Masqat Ankur Gupta According to me..Facebook . Below 16 mm stress relieving and above 16 mm normalizing. Most of PMC specifies Normalizing as option to be on safer side.they maintained only 25 mm. So temperature will be above recrystallization temperature and holding time shall be as per UCS-56..

similarly for 14 mm 3th will be 42 mm. in UW-13. Reason to keep SF this much is for ease in welding..but over crowning is not acceptable…June 1 at 9:51am · Like Yashwant Naik Max id of crown can be equal to od of adjacent cylindrical shell. (38 mm) except when necessary to provide required length of taper.(a) also ASME has limited to provide SF Static Equipment Group .Sf shall be less than 3* differnce in shell head thk...1 minimum length of sf.1 fig. As it is below 38 mm.my case shell and dish thickness is same14 mm i think uw 13.Facebook . As far as over crowning is concerned can you just check UG-32(o)..June 1 at 6:03pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki As far as SF is concerned it shall be minimum 38 mm if you are not able to follow 50 mm. Is 3 times of head thickness…June 1 at 2:54pm via mobile · Like Yashwant Naik Correction.1 : Minimum length of skirt is 3th but need not exceed 1-1/2 in. but as per above clause we can restrict it to 38 mm. Just check if client has specified anything about it. I think 25 mm can not give enough space during welding.. As per Fig... I think if 25 mm is giving better edge preparation and if th and ts are almost same then as per above clause you can accept it.13..g.June 1 at 8:23pm · Like Suresh Subramaniyam 25 mm is not acceptable…June 1 at 11:12pm · Like Veera Mani nayan. for 10 mm thick head min 3th will be 30 mm shall be maintained but we can go upto 38 mm. Generally we provides 50 mm SF for better weld edge preparation and for appropriate length of taper in case th is more than ts.1is not applicable for this…June 2 at 1:15pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki What is connecting shell thickness in your case ?? If it is equals to head thickness (14 mm). Check for collapse pressure for larger ratio basef on yeilding…June 1 at 11:18am via mobile · Like Nayan Joshi As per fig UW. Page 345 of 390 Thiruppathi Rajan According to me. It means that SF shall be max 38 mm e. UW-13. SF can be accepted. There is some requirement specified for for flat spot on dish end….

50 mm . UW-13. I realize that Section VIII Division 1 now permits ultrasonic examination (UT) in lieu of radiographic examination (RT) as stated in UW-51(a)(4). Please check your job specifications once…. Static Equipment Group . The same RT Designators shall be applied for Ultrasonic Examination.1 tells you about lap weld requirements for Shell to head welds not about the SF length of a Dished end…. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 24 at 5:08pm via Email Mihir Jha. No where in the code it is mentioned to maintain SF as 38 mm.June 19 at 4:59pm · Like 8) Hemant Solanki Marking on ASME Nameplate during UT Testing Question :My Company manufactures pressure vessels that are usually examined by radiography and I am familiar with the various "RT" marking designators [RT1.June 19 at 4:58pm · Like SainathDanda So in your case 25mm SF is acceptable if your job specifications doesnot specify the SF length otherwise it shall be according to the SF length. you can ask your design Engineer treat this dish head as torispherical head and perform call. also no where in the code it is mentioned to avoid dished end welding direct to the shell…June 19 at 4:53pm · Like SainathDanda And again Fig. RT2.June 3 at 6:29pm · Like Wang Shun For SF agree with Hemant . etc] that are required to be stamped on the name plate. See below the underlined and italics words from UG-116(e). you can also refer it even though it is for head attached to shell by fillet weld…. If calc passes and client also accepts then ok…June 8 at 8:27pm via mobile · Like SainathDanda The idea behind maintaining SF length is to avoid welding shell direct to the dished end which is a good engineering practice.Facebook . marking shall be applied under the Certification Mark. Page 346 of 390 minimum 25 mm. Do I have to use different designators when I use UT instead of RT ? Answer : No. When radiographic or ultrasonic examination has been performed on a vessel in accordance with UW-11.. 89 mm which are general practices. Rohitash Singh Panwar and Wang Shun like this. For over crown.

but will be replaced by the new Certification Mark together with the designator letter "U". As of January 1st. the PMI instrument cannot be used due to their configuration.it only qualify wled consumable used…. marked by the inspector and distributed under foreman responsibility". You can check it if required….July 2 at 1:29pm via mobile · Like Being Shiju Performing PMI on welds is to confirm the alloy elements in the deposited weld metal. Static Equipment Group .Section VIII Division 1 U Pressure Vessels UM Miniature Vessels* UV Pressure Vessels Safety Valves** Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 27 at 10:40am Hemant Solanki There is one code case also ASME has issued. For socket and fillet welds. "S". do PMI depend on type of welding? Like · · Follow Post · Share · July 2 at 12:44pm KewalKareliya According to my experience PMI doea not depend on weld type. Trust this helps…. The same we have uploaded in this forum. My query. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 4:06pm near Baroda. Page 347 of 390 9) EdgrdmDguzmn Until December 31. etc.July 2 at 1:48pm via mobile · Like Ajay Dalvi Dear Friends. It is important to notice that the "ASME" Certification Mark with the designator has the same meaning and certifies Code compliance as the old Code Symbol Stamp did. 2012 the Code Symbol Stamps may still be used. Pressure Vessels .June 27 at 10:43am · Like 10) Mihir Jha While reviewing PMI procedure. in order to ensure that the weldings consumables will be identified and well employed they will be separtaed in a controlled area. "PP". one vendor has stated that " For Socket and fillet weldings where PMI will be not applicable. 2013 the ASME Code Symbol Stamps may not be used any more.Facebook . Gujarat SainathDanda likes this. Is there any specific requirement specified any PV Codes regarding requirement of Straight Face in Dished Ends.

. UW-13.1. thicker than the shell and concave to pressure. But standard industry practice is 1.Facebook .August 2 at 12:04am · Like NirajPandya No PV codes specified but -our engineering books specified about stress concentration at that critical joint -that subject will act here to decide do we need SF or not ?. also on extended tubesheet slot for collar should be on shell side so that after channel flange removal tubesheet shall get remain in contact with shell side flange…. The only intention to provide straight face for a dished end is to avoid direct welding of the dish to shell at knuckle portion of the dish…August 1 at 5:10pm · Like · 1 Pramod Kshirsagar yacorrect. but not sure .1 mm) and 3. In some cases clients specifically mention to maintain 50 mm(2") straight face...August 2 at 8:29am · Like Hemant Solanki Refer UG-32 (l) : All formed heads.SF is usually taken 50mm and purpose is to avoid direct welding of the portion which has been hardened due to forming….August 2 at 11:09am · Like Tejas Shah What's the purpose of using of using collar bolt for heat exchanger ? I understand it hold the gasket in its condition . In foster wheeler specification it is mentioned that if design temp is more than 340 C then user has to provide hot box. It facilitates removal and handling of exchanger. intended for butt welded attachment. Kindly go through the same…. Page 348 of 390 SainathDanda As far as I know there is no proper requirement of straight face to be maintained in any of the codes. Also same query has been discussed earlier in this forum. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 4 at 1:48pm via mobile MiteshRana Purpose is to facilitate the removal of the channel for inspection and maintenance without disturbing the tubesheet to shell gasket seating…August 4 at 2:42pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Most of the specs calls for some percentage of total number of bolts to be collar bolts. when a tapered transition is required.5"(38.2 minutes ago · Like Pramod Kshirsagar What is the criteria to decide Y-Ring / hot box at skirt joint? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 2 at 10:01pm Tejas Shah likes this. Rahul Valand It depends on client specification.. While in some specs the limit is quite low…August 2 at 10:07pm via mobile · Like Rahul Valand The basic intention to provide hotbox is to reduce thermal gradient at skirt to shell weld junction and in a way to reduce the themal stress…August 2 at 10:09pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group .9 mm) and also according to the availability of the die for dishing.5" (88. shall have a skirt length sufficient to meet the requirements of Fig..

Many client specification calls for future machining allowance on gasket face of girth flange and tube sheet. shall be provided at the vessel-to-skirt junction. (38 mm).What is purpose of such allowance and how it is utilised? 2.. excluding internally lined vessels.what about Y-Ring?. The welded joint between the shell and skirt shall merge smoothly with the shell.How machining is done at site.. c) In cyclic service If the weld build-up method is used.August 5 at 3:04pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel Few questions on future machining allowance.Is it required to provide such allowance when we have solid or weld overlayed gasket face of stainless steel? 4. (19 mm).August 2 at 10:09pm · Like Susan Shrestha its depends on client specification like saudiaramco spec states when mean dia of vessel doesn't coincide with skirt mean dia.. For lug supported vessels with design temperatures above 500°F (260°C). a thermal stress analysis shall be performed of the lug-to-vessel attachment…. a support skirt "hot box". excluding internally lined vessels. 1. its design details shall be approved by Owner's Engineer. Page 349 of 390 Pramod Kshirsagar thanks . Hot Box—For vessels with design temperatures above 500°F (260°C).Facebook . Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 3 at 10:08pm via mobile Static Equipment Group .. (50 mm) and skirt thickness greater than 1 1/2 in. or b) Low alloy or Q&T steel shell greater than 2 in.Any special points to take care at design stage. Y-RING is required…August 2 at 10:36pm via mobile · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki Skirt supported vessels (excluding internally refractory lined vessels) that meet one of the following conditions shall have the skirt-to-shell attachment made by means of a forged head ring with stub or by means of weld build-up on the shell : a) Carbon steel shell with wall thickness greater than 2 in. (50 mm) with skirt thickness greater than 3/4 in. Please share your views.means what tools are used? 3.

But one question also arises if we simply provide corrosion allowance on flange face than also we can avoid this problem..) 3. This is my logic don't know correct or not.)….. C. if its damaged a lot then it needs to be sent to shop.serration can be damaged during bundle maintenance in case of even solid SS or weld overlay construction.August 4 at 8:48am · Like Patel Sudhir For gasket face machining at site. gasket surface finish may not be as new.. nowadays portable turning machines are available by which flange/tubesheet gasket face can easily be machined to required finish.August 4 at 8:35am · Like Purav Desai 1. with or without serration. then it can be done using hand grinder.e.Any special points to take care at design stage. as per my understanding and earlier post.How machining is done at site. this topic was discussed earlier also.August 4 at 2:45pm · Like Static Equipment Group .August 4 at 10:43am via mobile · Like Mitul Patel Further to Purav Desai's reply of question 3.) 2.Facebook . CS & LAS tubesheet thickness needs to be increased and tubesheet steps shall be calculated accordingly. refer my recent post. on flange face is it universal practise or it is varying from client to client….August 4 at 1:37pm via mobile · Like Being Shiju Machining tolerances are given in TEMA Section 2 F-3 from which the plus tolerance you can maintain while machining if there is such specific requirement on the project spec. I think this allowance is to take of corrosion of gasket surface in case of CS or LAS but it will not happen in case of SS.means what tools are used? (If surface is not damaged much. Trust this helps…. hence it is machined a little to obtain required surface finish and the allowance is used this time. We can further discuss it…. As for the machining at site.Is it required to provide such allowance when we have solid or weld overlayed gasket face of stainless steel? (NO) 4. Page 350 of 390 Tejas Shah Sometimes future machining allowance also depend upon material used. What my understanding gasket surface i.August 3 at 11:17pm via mobile · Edited · Like Purav Desai Mitul Patel. If we dont provide allowance then there is chance that flange/tubesheet thickness may become insufficient.. With grinder its not possible to do leak proof gasket face…. there are some portable machinery like gasket face milling machine.A. (Yes. This is just my assumption..What is purpose of such allowance and how it is utilised? (During tube bundle maintenance.

DXU.Facebook . If complete flange gasket face is damaged then it needs to be sent to shop for remaking serrations.http://www. So as far as I know nozzle size and qty are decided considering vapour flow and pressure drop limitation in shellside…. I have seen detuning baffle which is simple plate running along the length of tube between shell inlet and outlet nozzles…. Hence these nozzles shall be spaced at equal distance on the shell. Cross flow type exchanger has multiple nozzles on shell. Page 351 of 390 Purav Desai Recently I have learnt that. Article 3.August 10 at 7:04pm via mobile · Like · 1 Static Equipment Group . Main chk should be made on allowable pressure drop n rho-v2 for nozzle size n qty….what are the complexities associated to it Like · · Follow Post · Share · August 8 at 11:03pm Purav Desai BXU is one type of cross flow heat exchangers (other types are AXU.August 8 at 10:15am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran doesany one have a quick guide on bxu exchangers. What is detuning plate. refer ASME PCC-2. Detuning also know as deresonating type baffles are used to reduce vibration tendency on shell side. CXU. BXU.pdf…August 9 at 7:33am · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Purav to be honest it was too detailed.fwc.5 Flange Repair and Conversion…. NXU). i believe it will not damage the serrations…. Correct me if i missed something…. Its HTRI reoort only.August 5 at 5:46pm · Like Purav Desai Flange serrations are minute but its not subject to frequent wear and tear. But to ask how u decide the nozzle size and quanriry.O. There are no special mechanical design consideration for this.August 5 at 5:51pm · Like Purav Desai For detailed flange machining during opening of joint. Gasket remains in its place and as it fits into the serrations. I am partially agree with Mitul Patel regarding requirement of machining allowance for W.August 10 at 4:49pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai High flow of vapor tend to generate noise and acoustic vibration and to reduce it detuning baffles are provided…. first local weld build up is being made and then serrations are made using portable tools.com/publications/tech_papers/files/TP_VIB_02_02. Further while placing nozzles.August 10 at 4:50pm via mobile · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Is there any standard or do we need to follow HTRI report…August 10 at 6:55pm · Like Purav Desai Yes. I guess with that nozzle size and quantity is finalized…. I mean what velocity u consider. generally gasket face damage is local and in this case. connected piping arrangement shall also be checked./SS Tubesheet and flanges because gasket face is less prone to corrosion issues and hence less chance of damage.August 10 at 3:27pm · Like Purav Desai X shells are normally specified for shellside condensers where shellside is high qty vapor. but this case happens very rarely.August 9 at 7:33am · Like Purav Desai Also refer Foster Wheeler Model of Detuning baffles in the attached link.

This procedure z mstlyusd in cryogenic service…. N the vessel in plastic region.August 12 at 11:29pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . This is done by pressurising 1.. but when we can opt for such construnction? in fabrication point of view is it economical?. In cold stretchng cold allowable is used. Etc..Facebook . …. design temp shld be btwn minus 196 n plus 50.August 12 at 11:26pm via mobile · Like Krunal Solanky cold stretching is also called pressure strengthening in EN code. The allowable used is 270 mpa n yield is about 410 mpa. So the reqdthk reduces….August 12 at 11:15pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki thnxkrunal.5 mawp. Page 352 of 390 Mahadevan Venkiteswaran @Purav thanks again it helps clear a few doubts…August 10 at 10:09pm · Like Hemant Solanki Coldstretching of Austenitic Stainless Steel Pressure What is Cold stretching of Austenitic Stainless Steel Pressure Vessels ? As per code Case 2596 it is also one method of fabrication of stainless steel vessels.yes that code case covers all these requirements.August 12 at 11:10pm via mobile · Like Krunal Solanky bt it has certain limitations like thkupto 30 mm.August 12 at 11:13pm via mobile · Like Krunal Solanky simply as per my knowledge in cold stretch we are stretching d vesse5 above yield. Higher than hydro pressure. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 12 at 11:37am via Email Krunal Solanky cold stretching is the procedure which is applied for ss vessels only. Share your experience and findings on the same. . ….

Division 1? Reply: No.) and certification to be followed at site? below interpretation states the requirements are those indicated by the jurisdictional authorities at the point of installation. each with a separate U symbol and Manufacturer's Data Report. Division 1. U-1(e)(1)(a) indicates that the geometry of pressure-containing parts includes the welding end connection for the first circumferential joint for welded connections.Facebook . Two pressure vessels. Is the weld itself subject to the requirements of Section VIII. Then what requirements (PWHT/NDE/Hydro etc. are welded together at their respective nozzles. Interpretation: VIII-78-136 Subject: Section VIII. Page 353 of 390 Hemant Solanki Scope of connecting weld of two pressure vessels Interpretation to U-1(e)(1) of ASME Sec VIII div 1This topic is a duplicate of another discussion. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 11:19am Static Equipment Group . The applicable requirements are those indicated by the jurisdictional authorities at the point of installation. 1978 File: BC78-580 Question: Two pressure vessels. each with a separate U symbol and Manufacturer's Data Report. Scope Date Issued: October 27. are welded together at their respective nozzles. It is not within the scope of Sec VIII div1 as per U-1(e)(1)(a). this welding is being done subsequent to the stamping of the vessel. Further.

Facebook .Also one of our QC person said annealing can be wavied if we perform n IGC after cold forming d component n take test piece n perform IGC .August 21 at 8:52pm · Like Kewal Kareliya yes solution annealing applys to ss…August 21 at 10:13pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Solution Annealing is redistributing chromium in a solution. So you select according to design temperature of your equipment.August 23 at 10:22pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya also mine is not SSC service. Kewal Kareliya hi guys can anyone tell me. Thnx for your earlier reply yr feedback are also good.August 23 at 7:25pm Like Kewal Kareliya for ss fibre elongation is 10% why u mentioned 20 % . The stress relief anneal is followed by a magnaisum chloride SCC test (ASTM G36) to prove that residual stresses have in fact been eliminated. these are d-end n cone element. It also depends on services e.kindly revert …. how I can aviod splution annealing of plate thickness 6..August 24 at 9:50am · Like Static Equipment Group . Other can put their views…. So if forming percentage is above 20% (for SS) then stress-relief annealing is mandatory… here thickness also come into picture. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 21 at 8:35pm via mobile Hemant Solanki Is it SS? Solution Annealing ?. It should be done to check whether high temperature heat treatments gave any advert effects on material properties or not. If your service is SCC or IGC attack is predicted then this is required..10 & 12 mm. Page 354 of 390 Sunil Sharma likes this. But below 675°C design temperature that limit is 20%. Now as these are cone and dish ends. material are SS 304 N 316…. All type of corrosion testing (including IGC test – ASTM A262 Practice A to F) shall be done to determine if the material has been sensitized due to inappropriate thermal processing like heat treatment.g.August 23 at 10:23pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Refer Table UHA-44. Which gets depleted at grain boundaries due to high temperature welding.8.Pls confirn weather ds can be a accepance solutuon if yes than what shall be acceptance criteria for IGC for d same . SCC service. For SS 321 low temperature stabilization annealing after solution annealing sometimes needed to get more stabilization of chromium oxide surface…. So as per me IGC test can not waive off annealing requirement.. As per which above 675°C design temperature 10% limitation is there.

Static Equipment Group .Facebook . Vijay Kumar and 2 others like this. Page 355 of 390 Hemant Solanki Recommended Filling Weld Electrodes Like · · Unfollow Post · August 27 at 5:03pm Arpita Shah.

.August 29 at 10:25am · Like Hemant Solanki As per Div. Mihir Jha Column is made of CS+304L Clad.Root(Rt) away from any major structural discontinuity…. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 30 at 3:08pm Abdul Rasyid MK likes this. As per Div. Recently I read in foster wheeler welding specification higher of 2*thk or 100 mm. August 29 at 7:19am via mobile · Like James Bennet thank you Mr. During tray installation .August 30 at 3:41pm via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya what is the thickness of the column is the.Manufacturing process and Quality Control points Like · · Unfollow Post · August 30 at 7:05pm Vijay Kumar.Hemant…August 29 at 6:51pm · Like Hemant Solanki Pressure Vessel Plates . Page 356 of 390 James Bennet what is the minimum distance between longitude weld seem and nozzle in ASME code ? Like · · Unfollow Post · August 28 at 6:24pm Mitul Patel I think code is silent on this. This specification is with reference to API 582.August 30 at 6:31pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . Abdul Rasyid MK It is not required…August 30 at 3:41pm via mobile · Like Abdul Rasyid MK It is not required…. Now the column is PWHT. Mitul Patel….with confirmation of client becos some time it is process requirements for PWHT…. Do we have to carried out PWHT after welding the clips ? The clip MOC is SS 304L. Kiran Gawade and Suresh Sathasivam like this.1 two adjacent long weld seams shall be 5t times away from each other. thcikness is less than 32 mm than PWHT can be wavied.5x Sq.August 29 at 2:54pm · Like · 1 James Bennet thank you Mr.Facebook .2 The section of interest is at least 2. it has noted that one clip/bolting bar has missed out.

1. it has to be welded on base metal and then clad area to be restored….2.1. I suggest preheating will be better option because it will be bevel with fillet weld which going to join these SS clips with CS base MOC. we can assume.3. here also same above methods are suggested as alternative. And as it is weld zone (CS) which we require to maintain its hardness and properties. 2.1.1.1 code if we opt for 1st option. P2 Grade 2 steels containing manganese and molybdenum are excluded. section 8.4.1. this simply involves replacing PWHT with preheating the weld joint and then maintaining the temperature during the welding process. -Replacement of PWHT by controlled deposition (CD) welding methods : This is sometimes known as temper-bead welding and is described in some detail in API 510 section 8. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 4 at 12:18pm near Rusayl.6. have become a mainstay of API codes.August 31 at 11:03am · Like · 3 Sanjay Rathod localized PWHT shall be carried out…August 31 at 12:26pm · Like Veera Mani hi friends.. in principle. A multilayer weld which is built up in this way will therefore be given an amount of grain refinement throughout its depth. so it is limited to materials of P1(Grade 1.Facebook . Page 357 of 390 Hemant Solanki Here Base Material (CS) undergone PWHT. owing to their low carbon content.August 30 at 6:59pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai For this case. While this technique provides sufficient grain refinement it is clearly not as good as full PWHT. Following points I am quoting from API 510 as solution to this issue. Masqat.g. which asks to calculate shear stress for weld joint where support clip is directly welded on clad steel. The maintained temperature serves to give sufficient grain refinement to reduce the chances of cracking when the weld is finished and allowed to cool down. It will be local area on base MOC which going to get heat up during welding. as they have a higher potential for cracking. These have a low risk of cracking anyway. 1). And now it is required to weld SS clips to support bolting bar. please advise any relation between impact tested material vs PWHT of the complete vessel.4. The CD technique is considered to be a little better at replacing full PWHT than the preheat only alternative. 2) designations. 570 and 653 and. So above techniques can be applied here.1). I don't remember the exact clause but there is a limiting value of shear stress if it exceeds then u cannot weld support clip directly on clad steel. The two methods of PWHT replacement (section 8. -Replacement of PWHT by preheat : As the name suggests.6.6. are commonly used in practice. It is therefore used for materials where the specification requires impact (notch toughness or Charpy) testing as a condition of their use in pressure equipment. preheat and CD welding.4. CD technique will be more applicable if it would be any butt weld joint…. This subsection has been progressively expanded and elaborated over recent code editions – you can see this in the out-of-balance subdivisions in the code clauses (it goes to a concentration-popping seven levels of subhierarchy. These two PWHT replacement techniques. The top layer of the final weld pass will not have anything above it to provide it with heat treatment. Oman Hemant Solanki As per UCS-68 (c ) if post weld heat treatment is not code requirement and your MOC is P-No is 1 and you carry out post weld heat treatment a 30 degree F bonus will be granted to you to reduce minimum permissible impact test Static Equipment Group .2.4 says that.2. No. The fact that impact tests were required indicates that the material has a tendency towards brittleness so the preheat method would not be good enough.6. repair welding must follow the requirements of ASME VIII (it means UW-40 and UCS-56) but opens the door to two overriding PWHT alternatives set out in API 510 section 8. Even I have checked in ASME PCC-2 which is ASME published standard for repair of pressure equipment.2) are : -Replacement of PWHT by preheat -Replacement of PWHT by controlled deposition (CD) welding methods Both work on the principle that the stress-relieving effects of PWHT can be achieved (albeit imperfectly) by providing the heat required in some other way than placing the repair in a furnace. I would like to remind requirement from SAUDI ARAMCO Spec. Even though it is given in API code also for equipment in service alteration still you can use above techniques in order to avoid PWHT of that weld. although more commonly in the USA than elsewhere.6. Remember here SS (P No. Only thing is they mentioned preheat temperature to be selected from ASME Section VIII-Div. The principle is simple enough – when one layer of weld metal is laid down on top of another the heat from the upper one provides some heat treatment (grain refinement) to the weld underneath.8 going to weld on CS (P. They are now mentioned in API 510.4. 3) and P3(Grade 1.2. API 510 section 8. e.

No. ? MOC: SA516 GR. so 22 mm throat dimension will not give much effect while welding. whichever is greater. Suppose i have a vessel of 30 thk. Masqat.September 4 at 12:55pm · Like · 2 Veera Mani please clarify this below doubt. i have a doubt regarding pwht.Facebook . Nominal thk.5 inch….5 inch…. . N it is exempted from pwht reqmt. dish plate min thk is 30mm and nom thk is 36mm@MDMT-29 deg c. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 9 at 3:42pm near Rusayl.Also please tell me about UCS 68 para anything related to impact test exception or consideration to be made. with 32 mm fillet weld.September 10 at 11:31am · Like Krunal Solanky Hi. is throat dimension. 1 group (CS).70 Like · · Unfollow Post · Yesterday at 12:00pm via mobile Hemant Solanki 30 thick vessel is exempted from PWHT for P. Refer UW-40(f) for detail understanding of nominal thickness which should be considered while deciding pwht….. My query is do i need to perform pwht for the said joint. For fillet welds. As in case only fillet weld is attaching lug on shell. As per UCS-68 (c ) if post weld heat treatment is not code requirement and your MOC is P-No is 1 and you carry out post weld heat treatment a 30 degree F bonus will be granted to you to reduce minimum permissible impact test temperature in table UCS-66. Oman Hemant Solanki It shall be nominal thickness which should be considered while deciding impact test requirement as per Fig.23 hours ago · Like · 5 Static Equipment Group . as per UW-40 (f) 3. the nominal thk. and also as per code as nominal thickness is below 38 mm (comparing with 22 mm throat) so no pwht required to perform on this joint. 1 is greater than 1. UCS-66 and governing thickness definition as defined in UCS-66 (a ).. Remember do not try to find out pwht requirement on base of thickness of plates. Page 358 of 390 temperature in table UCS-66. As that plate will going to face pressure loading during operating temperature which will be hot. For combination of groove & fillet weld. Now you are welding 40 thick lug on it. So when post weld heat treatment is code requirement ? It is code requirement when your service is lethal and when your thickness for P-No. N nw i am attching lug on shell of 40 thk with a fillet weld of 32.wheather i need to considered min or nom thk for impact test.. UCS-68 requirement already discussed in this blog. so throat size will be approx 22 mm. is depth of groove or throat dimension.. it is size of weld which will decide pwht requirement. As we are checking Toughness of that plate so thicker plate shall be considered. 1 is greater than 1. So when post weld heat treatment is code requirement ? It is code requirement when your service is lethal and when your thickness for P-No.

. Refer UW-40(f) for detail understanding of nominal thickness which should be considered while deciding pwht…. . Page 359 of 390 Krunal Solanky Hi. So we can understand that this much thick weld build up in any case shall be avoided. So in your case PWHT is not required…September 17 at 10:21am · Like Static Equipment Group . Suppose i have a vessel of 30 thk. ASME has mentioned that fully butt weld of 38 mm thick and higher will give more welding stresses so above this much thickness PWHT is mandatory for P. ? MOC: SA516 GR. is throat dimension. as per UW-40 (f) 3. Now you are welding 40 thick lug on it. For fillet welds.70 Like · · Unfollow Post · September 14 at 12:00pm via mobile Hemant Solanki 30 thick vessel is exempted from PWHT for P. while welding two thicknesses fillet weld shall be decided based on minimum thickness out of two. No. As in case only fillet weld is attaching lug on shell. Remember do not try to find out pwht requirement on base of thickness of plates. As per my undrstanding. so 22 mm throat dimension will not give much effect while welding. 1 group (CS). If it serves the purpose then change fillet size to 30 mm instead of 32 mm. the nominal thk. . i have a doubt regarding pwht. whichever is greater.September 14 at 12:12pm · Like · 7 Krunal Solanky but no such exemption is there for 22 mm throat dimension.September 17 at 10:09am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Dear. . it is size of weld which will decide pwht requirement. My query is do i need to perform pwht for the said joint. and also as per code as nominal thickness is below 38 mm (comparing with 22 mm throat) so no pwht required to perform on this joint. N nw i am attching lug on shell of 40 thk with a fillet weld of 32. Nominal thk.No. now as it is butt weld so excluding weld reinforcement it will be total groove depth about which ASME is talking.Facebook .1. I dint found any such clause in code. . just check whether 30 mm fillet will serve the purpose of that lug in imposed loading or not. with 32 mm fillet weld. For combination of groove & fillet weld. N it is exempted from pwht reqmt. Now as I mentioned earlier UW-40 (f) provides clear guidelines about thickness consideration while deciding PWHT. in that case throat dimension will get again reduce. Correct me if m wrong. N also 38 mm exemption is for same thk welds. So in your case fillet weld size shall be maintained as 30 mm. is depth of groove or throat dimension. so throat size will be approx 22 mm.

INSPECTION POSTS .STATIC EQUIPMENT GROUP .

-UW-11(a)(5)(a) (3) Spot or fully radiograph the intersecting circumferential weld ( Category B or C). Static Equipment Group . the butt weld must be Type 1 or Type 2. Length per UW-52…March 25. other criteria like minimum spacing. 2012 at 8:27pm · Like Hemant Solanki RT and PWHT in Pressure Vessel Inspections by Shahab (Iran) RT and PWHT in Pressure Vessel Inspections-which NDE techniques must be performed before PWHT and which techniques after PWHT? What about RT? Doing RT before PWHT is correct? What is the best practice for purchasers? Bob's Reply: ASME Code VIII Div 1 is not specifying any NDE just because our vessel must be subjected to the PWHT. So you may ask why code has not mandated this. the required NDE must be done so if the work was unsatisfactory then corrective steps can be taken to improve the welding in the subsequent units. One minimum spot to be selected at T-joints (Category B or C intersects Category A). If our vessel is subjected in spot or full radiography and also PWHT is mandatory. 2012 at 8:23am · Like Hemant Solanki Paragraph UW-11(a)(5)(b) can not be understood without including paragraphs UW- 11(a) and UW-11(a)(5)(a). To meet UW-11 (a) (5) (b) requirements for the butt weld 3 simple requirements are as below : (1) Fully radiograph the butt weld or choose seamless materials. After completion of each weld unit.April 19. I have seen personally some vessel which had been cracked in weld or even in base metal after PWHT and I understand why you are concern. but ASME Code has not mandated radiography after PWHT. there is no differences in the NDE technique and scope.-UW- 11(a)(5)(b)…. So either our vessel is subjected to PWHT or not subjected. We must do radiography when welding completed and all probable defects removed.-UW-11(a) (2) If welded. We do not must forget. repaired andreradiographed. It might because we have another check point in hydrostatic testing so any crack which developed in PWHT most probably will fail in the hydrostatic testing.Facebook . Page 360 of 390 Satvik Patel Kindly share your interpretation for UW-11(a)(5) requirement Mihir Jha UW-11(a)(5)b gives us the advantage of taking the joint effeciecy =1 while SPOT radiogarphy to be carried out as per UW-52. based the ASME code the full responsibility for pressure vessel is on the shoulder of manufacture not purchaser or other parties. then it is the time to send the vessel to PWHT shop.

Static Equipment Group . Until such analysis is completed. operations noticed the temperature rising by the alarm in the control room. this cracking must not be happen. 2012 at 12:13pm · Like Hemant Solanki UNEXPECTED FIRE IN PRESSURE VESSEL A gas processing plant had an unexpected fire in a sweet gas glycol separator. Water was sprayed into the vessel through the manway and the smoke dissipated. There was no identified prior experience or exposures to pyrophoric material in previous inspections and normal operations. Learning outcomes of the above incident are: * Conduct Process Hazard Analysis on each plant. it auto ignited. depressurized. isolated from the line with blinds. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · June 10. When the pyrophoric material dried out exposing it to the atmosphere. Page 361 of 390 You may note before start of the fabrication. I believe this practice is not correct in pressure vessel inspections. and purged for inspections and maintenance. the manufacture is responsible for quality on his own work and this responsibility must not be transferred to the purchaser. Hemant Solanki copied from inspection-for-industry blog. so if all welding controlled properly based WPS. A day after the vessel was out of service. June 10. engineering companies and etc. the glycol separator was considered as a routine activity in a sweet gas plant. If the pressure vessel failed under hydrostatic test. The vessel was out of service. During the original work planning. I have seen some pressure vessel inspections and test plan which the purchaser mandated RT before and after PWHT. Investigation revealed that the sweet gas glycol separator had a coalescing filter that was saturated with a pyrophoric material.Facebook . the manufacture provided his WPS and PQR. 2012 at 12:12pm Mrudang Mehta and Rajendra Sharma like this. The operator in the field also noticed smoke rising from the top manway. So to prevent this bad incident. so definitely the manufacture will charge the purchaser because this is not code requirement. then manufacture must make repair or even rebuild the vessel. the manufacture will make all effort to control the welding process precisely. I have also seen some pressure vessel purchasers stated this requirement in their purchase order and manufacture know from first day of fabrication which has to do two times radiography.

* Develop a structured risk management process and a consistent method for assessing the likelihood of potential operating risk events as well as the health. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 3. including the design and construction of an item in accordance with the ASME Code.October 11. 2012 at 8:22am · Like Deepak Gitte Registration of an item with the National Board involves the manufacturer submitting an original manufacturer’s data report to the National Board for permanent retention. Another benefit can be purchaser assurance from quality of the pressure vessel because of manufacture responsibility to ASME Organization. * Conduct a review of Operating Procedures and ensure pyrophoric materials are identified as a hazard on the identified systems and ensure controls are in place.. and Operating Procedures. I cameaccross an important fact about ASME stamping so just thought of sharing it. Page 362 of 390 assume pyrophoric material may be present and ensure this is reflected within the Permit to Work. the inspection by a National Board commissioned inspector. Ensure risks are recorded and assessed consistently and reviewed at least yearly by management. because his pressure vessel automatically would be inspected by AI(Authorized Inspector) and its data report would be signed by him. But on the hand inspection agency will charge for design review & inspection. safety and environmental impacts of such events.. 2012 at 8:22am · Like Deepak Gitte for canada please check the project requirement. Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 8:17pm Hemant Solanki When a purchaser order stamped pressure vessel to stamp holder manufacture. it represents the culmination of a three-step process. 2012 at 8:23am · Like Sachin Pawar Hello all members. and the final documentation certifying compliance with the code of construction………October 11. 2012 at 7:56am Deepak Gitte Yes………October 11. Hazard Assessments. Registration is more than record retention.. 2012 at 9:28am via Email Rahul Chavan What is the requirement of NBR (National Board of registration) ? If the vessel is fabricated in Canada do it is mandatory to have NBR stamping ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · October 11. The owner has to compare both charges & take the decision accordingly. If a vessel is U stamped lesser insurance premium is required by the insurer during operation as vessel's design & workmanship is guaranteed... Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 11. Any addition to this point would be appreciated.... This would help ensure a common approach to the prioritization and management of identified risks in the plant.Facebook . it is not necessary to hire Third Party Inspector. Irrespective of this the U stamp is mandatory if vessel is to be installed in USA.. but in our current project RMP2 it is required for canada……..

Facebook .com The Pressure Vessel Certification article provides you information about ASME stamp holder process for manufactures and third party inspection companies……October 11. When equipment is being Stored in ware house. Hence as per me.pdf).scribd.com/pressure-vessel-certification. its meaning is short term storage (preservation) of equipment. September 25.com/doc/58303362/Manual-Mothball Manual Mothball www. Now quite often. it must be protected from corrosion from inside as well as outside.nace. the equipments in refinery which are considered as STORE SPARE can be treated as Mothballed Equipments…. 2012 at 5:06pm · Like Purav Desai http://www. If I explain in context of refinery equipment.inspection-for-industry. Owner prefers to procure STORE SPARE which can be utilized when operating equipment is under maintenance.scribd. 2012 at 8:25pm · Like · Remove Preview Vishal Patil If one want to set up the equipment in different country than that of manufactured one. its always bettter to have coded vessel. 2012 at 10:39am Purav Desai Meaning of "Mothballed Equipments" is very similar to dictionary meaning of the term. 2012 at 5:07pm · Like · Remove Preview Purav Desai NACE standard. painting and/or insulation can work and for inside protection we often use Volatile Corrosion Inhibitor or Nitrogen purging & monitoring. Page 363 of 390 In same time ordering a stamped pressure vessel would be expensive than non stamped pressure vessel……October 11.October 11.This will reduce the trouble in the country where the vessel will get installed as the local authority may accept the vessel as it is…….txt) or read online for free.org/cstm/Store/Product. 2012 at 8:24pm · Like Hemant Solanki http://www.inspection-for-industry.html PressureVesselCertification www.com Manual Mothball . text file (.Free download as PDF File (. For outside protection.September 25..http://wwww.aspx?id=0046abbd-d400- 4fa1-87c1-855276b1145a Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 10:24pm · Like Rahul Chavan What is the exact meaning of "Mothballed equipments" ? Like · · Follow Post · Share · September 25.

SAME CAN BE DE-MOTHBALLED AFTER SOME DURATION (TAKEN IN SERVICE AGAIN) MECHANICAL -S HAS NO WORK FOR THAT ONLY ESTIMATE THE VOLUME FOR NITROGEN PURGING IF REQUIRED. 1. A BS-EN document (or DIN-EN or AFNOR-EN..September 25. Page 364 of 390 NACE International Store . 2. IN OUR RECENT RIYADH REFINERY I JUST INPUT THE SAME IN OUR SYSTEM AND VISITED TO SITE ALSO FOUND THE SAME WHAT I REPLY EARLIER……October 16. I’m going to address the question again. It is intended to have world- wide usage. It is written under protocols with participation from delegates of the member states. it is publicly available for distribution. Certification. it is not available for public distribution. An EN document is developed as a regional standard.Facebook .org Professional technical society dedicated to protecting the environment and reducing the economic impact of corrosion through engineering and science…. Adoption. EN-ISO and BS-EN-ISO Standard?” The simple answer is “Not much. 2012 at 2:30pm · Like Vishal Patil What is the difference between an ISO. and 3. It is written under strict protocols with participation from delegates from all over the world. but since the question still crops up with much frequency. etc.” But there’s more to it than that.nace. EN-ISO and BS-EN-ISO Standard? We often get asked this simple question: “What is the difference between an ISO.MTI 34 Guidelines for the Mothballing of Process wwww. I’ve talked about this in a previous blog.) is a national standard. Once released. Location. Once released. *MOTHBALLED AND DE-MOTHBALLED PHILOSOPHY IS USED IN ARAMCO* * * AS PER THEIR SPECIFICATION MOTHBALLED MEANS CLEAN EXISTING EQUIPMENT/PACKAGE AND DISCONNECT IN OUT PIPING /CLOSED VALVES IF AVAILABLE AND PRESERVE AT THE SAME LOCATION FOR PARTICULAR PERIOD IN OTHER WORDS OUT OF SERVICE FOR SPECIFIC PERIOD BECAUSE OF PROCESS CHANGE . It is published Static Equipment Group . Location: An ISO document is developed as an international standard. There are three issues at play in answering the question: 1. It is intended to be used in the European Union. 2012 at 5:10pm · Like · Remove Preview Hemant Nikam DEAR ALL.

but since the question still crops up with much frequency. the complete title shows you what edition of the ISO document has been adopted. the EN adoption has a later issue date than the original ISO document. Usually. It is written under protocols with participation from delegates of the member states. Thus. when the ISO-14971. It is published as each country in Europe adopts the EN document. So. French and German are supplied to each member of Static Equipment Group . There are three issues at play in answering the question: 1. it is not available for public distribution. A BS-EN document (or DIN-EN or AFNOR-EN. and 3. However. So in our example of EN-ISO-14971. the European Union has the right to adopt and republish the standard. Adoption. Location. I’ve talked about this in a previous blog. When the EU chooses to adopt an ISO standard. There are strict requirements for the withdrawal of any conflicting or duplicating standards. etc. EN-ISO and BS-EN-ISO Standard?” The simple answer is “Not much. they add a level of administrative overhead.) is a national standard. Corrected version 2007-10-01). for example. It is intended to have world- wide usage. There are strict requirements for the withdrawal of any conflicting or duplicating standards. the title is “Medical devices – Application of risk management to medical devices (ISO 14971:2007.” But there’s more to it than that. the EN edition when issued is not actually available for public distribution. is issued. 2009 Edition. Copies in English. Once released. Location: An ISO document is developed as an international standard. 2.Facebook . It is written under strict protocols with participation from delegates from all over the world. 2. An EN document is developed as a regional standard. plus additional cover sheet information. as we noted above. 2. Adoption: What is the difference between an ISO.” As you can see. it is publicly available for distribution. Once released. Page 365 of 390 as each country in Europe adopts the EN document. EN-ISO and BS-EN-ISO Standard? We often get asked this simple question: “What is the difference between an ISO. 1. It is intended to be used in the European Union. the true title of the EN standard will show you exactly what revision level of the ISO standard is being adopted. I’m going to address the question again. countries have the right to republish the standard as a national adoption. Certification. Adoption: When an ISO document is released.

In one of my ongoing proposal for material identification & certification is required as per BS EN 10204. I encourage you to take a moment to consider the political undercurrents involved. 2012 at 3:21am Madhusudhan Shetty like this.2 ? 3. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · November 10. this requirements are there in projects. While our first impulse would be to go to the source document. Static Equipment Group .1 reports are reviewed at manufacture's end by TPIA…November 11. type 3.November 10. 3.November 11. Unlike · · Follow Post · Share · October 17.1 is for non load bearing component. Hemant Solanki What is certification requirement of EN 10204:2004 .2 is for pressure load bearing components and 3. even though it costs significantly more when you purchase the standard itself.3.Facebook . This can save you much time during your audit. we have a core ISO document that becomes increasing “wrapped” in layers of administrative adoption processes. the German Standards Institute (DIN) publishes the official German language edition.2 as per client specification. Because the EN editions of all standards are called out in the European Union’s regulatory schema (the European Directives harmonization process). many certification professionals will only accept EN standards when reviewing customer facilities and practices. else in 3. And if you are going to be audited by a firm based in England. Certification: As we have seen. like BSI for example. if anybody have these documents than please share…. So if you know that your trading partner in the European Union is in Germany and they want your auditor to come from a German firm. 2012 at 11:52am · Like Satvik Patel requirements are not different but with 3. but what is main testing requirements. The issue dates on each of these national adoptions will differ as the administrative time to review national standards for possible withdrawal varies.2 all testing and report is reviewed and verified at vendor's place by TPIA. Hemant Solanki yaa you are right.. and the French (AFNOR) publish the official French language edition.1. The British Standards Institute publishes the official English language edition (in this case. 2012 at 9:01pm · Like Kamlesh Rathod Dear all. 3. BS-EN-ISO-14971). Can anybody elaborate more about it's differences. you should definitely consider purchasing the BS-EN editions of any ISO standard you use. 2012 at 10:59am · Like AkilKazi Part that deals with non pressure part does not require the test certificate to be submitted as a part of quality document…. you may be well advised to get the English language editions of the DIN-EN standards where ever possible. Page 366 of 390 the EU. 2012 at 11:36am ShreyaDhawde likes this.

but we have to mentioned the both Points while Prepartion of MR otherwise Vendor will not considered the same and Quote without it .3.******************************** 3.. I think this is also discussed in detail in this forum through one post...3.com/groups/staticequipment/permalink/491832404184789/ Static Equipment Group What is certification requirement of EN 10204:2004 . Page 367 of 390 Vendor is taking deviation to provide material certification as per BS EN 10204. With this for static equipments we can select EN10204 3.1 and 3.2 is applicable only to raw materials...See More February 25 at 5:02pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview Kamlesh Rathod Thanks Purav Desai…February 25 at 5:05pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki 3. it will be little costly for contractor to verify material at every different place. 3.. Static Equipment Group ..February 25 at 5:52pm via mobile · Like Hemant Nikam Below is the Major difference In 3.4. stainless steel and other high alloy / non ferrous material Owner always provide standard mill suppliers of their choice.1. If Contractor buys from that mill there is no need to appoint Contractor's inspector for that material...2 certification? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 25 at 5:00pm via mobile Mitul Patel and Mukesh K Prajapati like this. Purav Desai This was already discussed..1 is also accepted after Client acceptance. Just check it…February 25 at 5:33pm · Like · 1 Kamlesh Rathod Thanks. Further static equipments in a one plant may be ordered at different places.2.2 Certification is more rigorous and the certificate is prepared jointly by the mill's inspection department and an independent 3rd party inspectors are TUV or Lloyds Register.2...1 & 3.February 26 at 7:33pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Reading above.facebook.1 is a certificate issued by the mill which declares that the plates are in compliance with the specification and includes the test results.. they Estimate the Total Material Requirement for the all static equipments summarised in thickness wise and ordered to one Mill/supplier & Supply to their Vendors for fabrication by taking the discount of buying in bulk quantity as well as reducing the cost of the Inspection testing cost /third Party Expenses also.1 and 3...Then check the applicabilty for Equipment components MOC ****************** 3.February 26 at 7:49pm · Like Hemant Nikam Mr.https://www.5.1 or 3..2 Certification:. always 3. The certificate states that the plates are compliant with the relevant specification and the mill test certificate is included…February 26 at 6:49pm · Like · 2 Kamlesh Rathod Thanks hemant bhai for this useful information.2 is mainly for pressure bearing components irrespective of thickness..February 27 at 1:15pm · Like Senthil Anbazhagan Please refer the following link. Now for static equipments..Purav you are correct.. type 3.it is cost related matter. In my earlier project in some cases if service is not that much critical then 3.It required Proper Planning before starting the bidding…...(ARAMCO is strigent for this two clauses.)********************** Some of the EPC Companies are doing this . It will help you to understand the difference between type 3. Test results are validated by the mill's in–house test department which has to be independent of the manufacturing department.6.2 ? 3. It is also similar to Level of Inspection 1. Can anyone explain what is the duffrence between type 3. For carbon steel material there will not be much restriction on mills but for LAS.2 is for press. I understand that EN10204 3.1 will apply because when owner prepares ITB List of approved mill is also prepared.1. 3.1….1 for all non-pressure and non-load bearing components..This is the one kind of Business strategy of the organisation and suggested by Experience People.Facebook . Refer below link.

This procedure must be qualified by using a demonstration block with specific known flaws as required by ASME Section V. The Manufacturer using AUT must also have a copy of the ASME Section VIII Div.March 15 at 4:55pm · Like · Remove Preview Hemant Solanki In the past.ruukki. the vessel nameplate stamping is not to include the letters UT . for AUT requirements and acceptance criteria. This paragraph directs the Manufacturer to ASME Section VIII Div. only RT-1. The Manufacturer s Data Report must specify the extent of AUT.5 requires that when using AUT. While this Code Case has not been rescinded and may still be used. MandatoryAppendix IX Procedure Qualification Requirements For Flaws Sizing and Categorization.ruukki. 3 or 4 shall be indicated regardless the amount of AUT that was used in lieu of radiography. Paragraph 7. 2.5. 2 Code available when using provisions of Paragraph UW-51(a)(4). Article 4.ashx http://www. 2012 at 10:52am Static Equipment Group .in/~/media/Files/Steel-products/Hot-rolled-steels-order-delivery/Ruukki-Hot-rolled- steels-Inspection-document. Article 4. Mandatory Appendix III Timeof Flight Diffraction (TOFD) Technique or Mandatory Appendix V Phased Array E-Scan and S-Scan Linear Examination Techniques. there must be a written procedure conforming to ASME Section V. Page 368 of 390 http://www... Mandatory Appendix VIII Ultrasonic Examination Requirements for Fracture Based Acceptance Criteria. AUT has now been included in the 2010 Edition.5. Depending on the type of AUT examination.Facebook .in/~/media/Files/Steel-products/Hot-rolled-steels-order- delivery/Ruukki-Hot-rolled www. As a final note. the NDE contractor must also meet the requirements of ASME Section V.5. I in Paragraph UW-51(a)(4). 2011 Addenda of ASME Section VIII Div.in. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 23. in accordance with ASME Code provisions. Article 4. Paragraph 7. 2. a vessel Manufacturer had the option of using automatic or semi-automatic ultrasonic examination (AUT) for 13mm in weld thickness or greater in lieu of radiography by following Code Case 2235-9.ruukki.

TESTING POSTS .STATIC EQUIPMENT GROUP .

February 28. 2012 at 1:39pm · Like Krutika Shah Yes. for impact test requirements.. after dish forming. South Korea Ruby Sahu steel stack does not contain pressure.C to D). 2012 at 10:06pm · Like · 1 Purav Desai See the below extract of API537 (Flare stacks for further clarity). The requirement is for use of normalized CS plates. can we avoid impact testing? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 3.. MOC was falling in Curve B of UCS-66. or both..right?. Now. the bottom portion of the stack incorporates a knockout drum or liquid seal. 2012 at 11:27pm · Like Static Equipment Group ..May 3. Also. 2012 at 12:13am via mobile · Like Kumar Kashyap Dear all. Page 369 of 390 Kumar Kashyap Do we need to carry out hydrotest for steel stack? Steel stacks are designed as per ASME STS-1.. 2012 at 8:04am near Seoul. we are doing normalizing after forming. 2012 at 4:34pm · Like Mihir Jha To avoid impact testing. can we consider the MOC to be in Curve D of UCS 66 and avoid impact testing……. Earlier (before forming). Mrudang May 3.March 15.. By doing so. South Korea Mrudang Mehta Hi. 2012 at 5:23am near Seoul. just want to elaborate Mr. There is provision in the code to avoid impact testing by using a normalized plate (changing curve B. 2012 at 4:36pm · Like Purav Desai Hi Friends.. Kashyap's query.May 4.May 4.March 13. When specified in the data sheets. we can……. now we form a head from it and due to fibre elongation. hydrostatic testing and code stamping…. 2012 at 4:04pm via mobile · Like Mihir Jha Why you do normalization after d'end formation?. Flare stacks are generally operated at near-atmospheric pressure and are not specifically designed as pressure equipment.. does steel stack requires 'U' stamping? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · February 17. In some cases. 2012 at 9:07am · Like Mrudang Mehta Never gone for U stamping for stacks. if specified. so no hydrotest is required.. if we carried out PWHT then we have 30 deg F reduction provided PWHT is not required per code….Facebook . How about using a carbon steel plate to form D'end and then normalising the D'end. Nothing is mentioned in code about hyrotest. once we do normalizing. the stack portion containing the knockout drum or liquid seal may be designed as a pressure vessel including. We have a carbon steel plate (not normalised).May 3. Exceptions to this include conditions when the flare burner creates a backpressure in the flare riser that causes the pressure design code to become applicable.

Harry Chacko Refer UG-82 (a) too. After forming and normalizing that dish end is strengthened enough to withstand low temperature and impact. Now if I am procuring carbon steel plate without normalizing or with normalizing to form a dish end then upto 25 mm thickness (uncorroded minimum formed thickness) that CS material will be impact test exempted (refer UG. please give the ASME reference? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · September 10. 2012 at 9:56am Suraj Kr Tiwari Full radiography is required equal to three times the dai of opening with the centre of hole at midlength. In one of my vessel.. Here you may think on stress relieveing of dish end radhar then performing Normalizing. Page 370 of 390 Mrudang Mehta Hi. UCS-66 as for impact testing we consider individual parts of equipment whether it is exempted from impact testing or not.. The requirement of normalized steel for considering curve D is to use use plates normalized before forming is carried out. in that case I do not have any advantage as far as impact testing is concerned when my dish end thickness does not exceed 25 mm range. Also if before normalizing this plate is requiring impact test as it is in Curve B. September 10. That us why 'N' is mentioned next to SA 516 Gr 70..rather than landing up with tensile / hardness issue afterwards. strength property will change once material is normalised.Facebook . Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 9:03am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki As per my view impact testing is required to confirm the toughness of steel at low temperature. still that plate will not come across low temperature service at that time. 2012 at 12:02am · Like Mihir Jha Dear All.. Hemant Solanki As per most of the specs when any pad is coming on any weld seam then the seam shall be ground flush and fully radiographed for a distance equals to the greater of 3 times the shell thickness or 150 mm measured each side of the covered weld area. you please check minimum formed thickness of dish end.this problem will more exist with heavy gauge plates. This is same as using normalized plates in sour service.. If it is below 25 mm then your dish end is impact test exempted as per clause mentioned. Then I can go with both options with or without normalizing unless and until there is service requirement like sour service to use normalized plates as Mrudang bhai discussed.UHA-51(g). tensile properties. Refer UHA-51(d)(3). Purav.why not better to have normalised plates at ordering.. If by fibre elongation you want to perform Normalizing then again it's ok..20(f)). 2012 at 12:47pm · Like Rupesh Ubale In my opinion normalising the plate after purchase may not guarantee for code min.Pvelite does not evalute MDMT when we select SS or duplex material. 2012 at 2:13pm · Like Mitul Patel Which thickness need to be consider for impact testing exemption for the duplex steel. Do 100% RT to be done on circumferential weld before pad attachment? If yes. But if dish end thickness is more then 25 mm and you are performing Normalizing then as per my view you can select Curve D of Fig. Means plate procured on normalized condition. the pad of nozzle is coming on the circumferential seam. If explain if My understanding is incorrect. UW 14.for that you may have to perform normalising of coupon first. Please discuss if further i have missed anything……May 5. Then it does not matter your CS plates are in which condition. Please suggest my understanding is correct or not…August 25. Mrudang……May 5..

Facebook . if somebody has it please share. Mihir Jha Ferritic. 2000 File: BC99-598 Question (1): Are impact tests required on austenitic ferritic duplex steels when the MDMT is +32°F or colder. 2012 at 7:15pm · Like · 1 Mitul Patel Its very clear why it is required from this link but main concern is the thickness limit is 10 mm for all product forms. Page 371 of 390 There is no term called governing thickness in UHA-51 as defined in UCS-66. 1999 Addenda). I understand that duplex are superior material compare to other SS grades and CS. Does it means even std. or the thickness exceeds the limit of UHA- 51(d)(3)(a). 2012 at 5:51am · Like Purav Desai API TR 938 C will be helpful.” as permitted by SA-370.when exceeds 10 mm require impact testing. and the thickness limit of UHA-51 (d)(3)(a) in Section VIII. Their impact characteristics change at sub-zero temperatures in a similar way to low alloy steels.September 19.Than why code has a stringent requirement for this materials? Like · · Follow Post · Share · September 19. Question (2): When standard pressure parts.org. they replied that they consider Impact testing as required by UHA for duplex SS maerials (including tubesheet and flanges).Always flange and tubesheet will require impact testing.http://www. Division 1 (1998 Edition. Question (3): Does the exemption given in UHA-51(d)(3) apply to “rolled plate” as used for shells and heads? Reply (3): Yes.php?article=41…September 19.uk/topics. Division 1 is exceeded? Reply (1): Yes. UG-84. martensitic and duplex stainless steels become brittle at low temperature. an acceptable value when assessing the notch ductility in accordance with the requirements of UHA-51? Reply (4): No……………………. Pvelite does not check this but compress does. UHA-51.September 20. Question (4): Is the value of “energy absorbed. 2012 at 9:16pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai Interpretation: VIII-1-98-100 Subject: Section VIII. Anyways i do agree with you for impact testing of duplex ss tubesheet and flanges. UHA-51(d)(3).UHA-51(g). 2012 at 3:43pm via mobile Mihir Jha likes this. made from austenitic ferritic duplex steels are within the pressure temperature ratings of its standard. I checked with some of the Korean Vendors.Please check this clause. as outlined in UG-11. is it still required to perform impact testing in accordance with UG-84 and UHA-51? Reply (2): Yes. September 20. and UHA-51(e)(3) Date Issued: January 14.bssa. Austenitic steel is having resistant to become brittle at low temp. when the MDMT is colder than -20°F. I think we may need to raise a Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 6:04am · Like Purav Desai Hi Mitul. Tubesheet and flanges are not covered….But only component covered are shell and heads in this exemption with specified coincident ratio. They use word nominal material thickness. flanges requires impact testing? There is exemption to this in clause no.

1 and according to that we have to perform impact testing. Also hydrotest is the testing we perform to check integrity of weld joint only after PWHT. any welds made with straight chromium electrodes must be radiographed after any PWHT. However.September 20. Question : For a vessel constructed of carbon and alloy steel in accordance with Section VIII. when constructing with high-alloy material. The reason is that expansion joints designed per Appendix 26 do not carry the axial loads due to pressure.." In addition. And welds and HAZ has a temperature limitation of -20 ºF……September 20.3. for base metal. Appendix 26. [UHA-33(b)] In code nowhere it is written that Radiography shall be performed after PWHT. It is vendor's responsibility to ensure sound weld areas and prove the ame by approved WPS and PQR from inspectors.Facebook . when I referred ASME B 31. requires "adequate restraint elements. VIII Div. 26-5 specifies the examination requirements for expansion joint welds. For this material. 2012 at 2:45pm · Like Mitul Patel Are they doing impact for standard flanges also?check compress MDMT calculations will give more clarity on this. Static Equipment Group .. as reproduced below from Appendix 26.. Division 1 defines weld joint categories for most joints in a vessel. must all radiography be performed after any mandatory PWHT? Answer : No. Code-required radiography may be performed before or after the PWHT. If any body want to add more please do the same. Further.UHA-51(g) exemption can be taken for shell and head because coincident ratio defined there is tensile stress ratio. duplex SS material can withstand -60 ºF without impact testing. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 22. Therefore. 2012 at 8:12pm · Like Hemant Solanki Expansion Bellow Weld Joint Category ?? Question : Paragraph UW-3 of Section VIII. 2012 at 7:14pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai For standard flanges (components). Division 1.. However. Page 372 of 390 Technical Query mentioning tubesheet & flange to ASME for this. assigned a Category? Answer : Bellows-to-shell attachment joints are not Categorized in UW-3. If anybody is of different opinion please share. and these joints have no effect on the joint efficiency of the shell.debatable issue. Appendix 26 26-1(b). the radiography rules of UW-11 and UW-12 do not apply. So even though we are asking vendor to add this requirement we are unnecessary taking vendor's responsibility on our shoulders. When employing a bellowstype expansion joint in a vessel. is the attachment joint to the shell. 2012 at 3:20pm via Email Hemant Solanki Radiography after PWHT . only the interpretation listed above is available for ASME Sec.but tubesheet and flanges will undergo bending stress also so compress gives requiremet for the impact testing when either limit on thickness or MDMT crosses…. I am attaching a good article on Duplex SS material…….September 20.

This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. Div.October 25. the vendor mentioned that " the minimum diameter that may be examined by TOFD is 4 in".Quality. especially for relatively thick sections. Bikas Paikray Code Case 2235 (Case 2235-2) is already released ?. If you are not an intended recipient. As a Code Case. 2012 at 5:57am · Like Static Equipment Group . 2012 at 5:53am · Like Bikas Paikray Thanx Mr Mihir.. If you are not the intended recipient.October 25. While reviewing one of the vendor document.Facebook . Feigel. these new provisions are optional.. disclosure. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 22. 1 and 2 Pressure Vessel Construction by Richard E. 2012 at 7:28am · Like Mihir Jha Code Case 2235-9 state that " All welds in material 1/2" or 13 mm or greater in thickness may be examined using the ultrasonic method in lieu of RT. Page 373 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · October 22. please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this email and any attachments permanently from your system. but they should be a substantial benefit to many vessel manufacturers.October 23.. 2012 at 4:05pm via Email Hemant Solanki Use of Ultrasonic Examination in Lieu of Radiography Use of Ultrasonic Examination in Lieu of Radiography for ASME Section VIII. Approval of this case will bring ASME examination practice more closely in line with long standing use of ultrasonic examinations permitted by many other pressure vessel codes. The original Code Case was limited to welds 4 in. HSB Engineering The ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committee has approved a revision to Code Case 2235 (Case 2235-2) that will permit the use of ultrasonic examination in lieu of radiography for the required examinations of pressure vessel welds 1/2 in. Some of the potential benefits include: * Cost . use. 2012 at 4:21pm via Email Krunal Solanky likes this.. copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. Yes its mentioned in code case 2235-9. * Inservice baseline . It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. and thicker.. any reading.Ultrasonic examination can be less expensive than radiography. and thicker. Can any one let me know is it the code requirement or it is limitatation of the TOFD equipment?.Some customers may specify ultrasonics as more appropriate for establishing inservice baselines. * Less disruptive . Vice President .Workflow management radiography can disrupt work scheduling due to the necessity of protecting workers in the vicinity from radiation exposure. But I was confused for (2235- 2)….

com The ASME Impact Test Requirement article provides information about impact test requirement in pressure vessel design and construction….com/pwht-requirements-in-pressure-vessel-inspections. LPG 20 Deg.Facebook . (2) deoxidation or through killing (3) fine grain size.. http://www.inspection-for-industry. Also please suggest when to use SORF & WNRF flanges?? Is there any thumb rule for the selection?????? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · December 3. 2012 at 9:23pm Krunal Solanky likes this. C.inspection-for-industry..Addition of Ni will help beyond -46 deg. Hemant Solanki Refer below links. C under pressure Ammonia . (4) normalising or quenching & tempering (5) alloying with nickel (6) addition of Manganese etc. When service is not so critical and when crevice type corrosion issue is not there then SORF can be used.. This requirement is storage levels like.com/asme-impact-test-requirement.C.html WNRF is preferred over SORF due to its suitability to withstand high pressure and temperature. Factors contributing to lower temp.inspection-for-industry. Among them last 2 factors are most effective. This combined with low impurity level will provide impact at -29 to 100 deg.30 " " Static Equipment Group .December 4. 2012 at 8:17am · Like · Remove Preview Hemant Solanki What exactly differs consumables of impact test @-29 to -46 to normal electrodes. Whu is is designated like this ? only beacause of Flux or prices. . ASME Impact Test Requirement www. a.html http://www. Page 374 of 390 Krunal Solanky Can anyone suggest the best book for requirements of impact test and PWHT for easy understaning?? Though its details are given in code but language is difficult to understand. are (1) minimum carbon.

2011 Addenda) Date Issued: January 27. and other alloy elements are added through ferrous form i. Page 375 of 390 Propane .) type flux... Mitul Patel Interpretation: VIII-1-10-47 Subject: UG-99(e).: 11-1606 Question: In accordance with the provisions of UG-99(e)(1).. Mn. Rajani Mewada So finally code has no objection for common element. a.162 " " Oxygen ..March 10 at 5:19pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . when pressure chambers of combination units have been designed to operate independently and be hydrostatically tested as separate vessels (each chamber tested without pressure in the adjacent chamber). ferro Mn. What Its (FLUX ncontains ) exactly in Impact test @-29 to -46 welding consumables?hin or Wire in case ofg electrodes. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · March 10 at 4:37pm via mobile Rajani Mewada likes this. Maximum Allowable External Pressure (2010 Edition. Or let higher hydro test pressure as it is.Facebook .. Division 1 that the hydrostatic test pressure in one chamber acting as external pressure on the common element may exceed the maximum allowable external pressure of such common element? Reply: Yes. Ni.. Now onwards what to do if such case comes? Shall we increase thk or provide stiffners to increase MAEP or MAEWP.e. is it permitted by the rules of ASME Section VIII. Apart from basic (low Hyd.March 10 at 4:41pm · Like Mitul Patel Do all agree with this? Code allows higher hydro test pressure than common element's MAEP or MAEWP. ferro Ni etc.so far we were doing this.42 " " LNG . explain in brief. 2012 File No. It is same with filler wires where alloys are added directly . Please share your views / agreement / disagreement with ASME's strange interpretation!!!!!.183 " " and like wise. pls .

March 10 at 10:02pm via mobile · Like Purav Desai As per me. some says minimum 30 mins. But can we raise further query on this interpretation. its sure that External Hydrotest Pressure can be greater than MAEP of common element but to what extent greater???? That is still and open point. My present company has experienced failures under such cases (jacketed vessel inner shell) in past which are not designed properly. They might have considered hydro test for only small time period and so given advantage to the same…March 10 at 9:12pm via mobile · Like Mitul Patel External hydro test is more critical than internal because here we can not take advantage of higher allowable stress like 0. this issue can be discussed in more detail with such results…. Likewise in allowable stress There is certain factor of safety on factor B which is used in external pressure calculation. Better to raise this query there during question answer segment.. Page 376 of 390 Mrudang Mehta I understand that let hydro test pressure as it is.Facebook .You can check your design using FEM before go to hydrotest to ensure the common element of chamber is good enough to with stand the exteral/internal pressures…. Is it so that . TEMA states that test pressure shall be held for atleast 30 minutes.May be due to this it will not fail.. With FEA we can set some limit and than it can be decided on little conservative side.March 14 at 2:31pm · Like 1) Purav Desai What is ASME Sec.If we use FEM to finalize the pressure chamber design.March 13 at 8:18pm · Like · 2 Senthil Anbazhagan Mitual Patel: We have a solution to solve this issue. There must be one more question needs to be raised.March 10 at 11:53pm via mobile · Like Mitul Patel Please let me know how we can post query to ASME I think code also cover it in one of non mandatory appendix….Do anybody has done in past.. The case is worst when common element's MAEP or MAEWP is limiting Chamber MAP or MAWP. hydrotest pressure shall be maintained only for the time Inspector inspects all joints? Static Equipment Group . Though for short time it can damage inner shell…. VIII Div.3 factor for hydro test it is obviously going to fail. some says 15 mins. we will have to carry out FEA for few samples with different metallurgy.So somebody in our group who can perfrom FEA for such cases. It is easy that we can do hydrotest either as single or double chamber. some says 1 hr per 25 mm of shell thickness and some specifications are silent.9*yield. the code interpretation is still incomplete. 1 requirement for "Duration of Hydrotest"? For how much minimum time hydrotest pressure shall be maintained? Some specification says minimum 1 hr.But fail theoritically….March 10 at 11:29pm · Like Mitul Patel Yes your observations is correct. As per code guide book by jaward & farr. Now..if we still apply 1. To determine the factor.March 10 at 11:55pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki On 27th March there will be webinar on ASME 2013 code changes as I have posted earlier.

Even though you are below yielding point but above elastic point so there Static Equipment Group . it's matter of using and defining terms. Now can you elaborate on factors that decides holding period ? I think we are still behind the answer…. Page 377 of 390 Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · May 23 at 8:55am Manvendra Kumar likes this. Inspector asks operator to reduce that pressure to Hydro pressure divided by 1.but in some cases after visual inspection inspector want to inspect vessel based on pressure drop also in that case Minimum duration may be extend to 1 Hr…May 23 at 11:32am · Like Hemant Solanki Duration of hydrotest is not related to time required to inspect that equipment by Inspector. However as per my view this shall be decided based on consultation with authorised inspector of fabricator. That means we are doing hydro test in elastic range of material pertaining to that…. At end of the day there shall be no any visible deformation on equipment after hydrotest.. Agree with you on your point regarding reduction in pressure during visual inspection as may be it is directly related to safety of inspector. Also ASME has given minimum hydro pressure. and then starts inspecting joints. Leakages can be found even at less pressure. Regarding pressure drop. If leakage is more.May 23 at 2:26pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Krishna. Krishna Desai I think there is no relation with respect to duration of hydro test and shell thickness. And also note that inspector will never inspect equipment at hydro pressure.Facebook ..3 factor to take care operating temperature stress and minimum stress ratio to safeguard pressure part with lowest stress etc.May 23 at 10:26am via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Yes Purav. definitely they will stop the test immediately..also i am agree with Krishna Desai that duration of hydrotest is time required to inspect fully by inspector. I am agree with pressure drop concern. I could not be able to understand as vendors are not using any differential pressure gauge and in case of very less amount of leakage it is not possible to observe in pressure gauge as pressure drop will be in mbar and pressure gauges are marked with the fraction of may be 1 bar. plastic range starts after yielding point and we are considering 90 % of yielding only. Logically. There time will matter. Regarding the word duration of hydro test and holding time. Not duration of hydro test…May 23 at 11:39am · Like Krishna Desai Dear Hemant.3. Hydro pressure should maintain till holding time to ensure that equipment undergoes operating conditions scenario. User can go above that pressure after consultation with authorised inspector. Purav. In such cases time may be reduced. specific word for this is „Holding time for hydro test pressure‟...g. duration of hydro test is the time required by the inspector to inspect all critical joints (specially "T" joints)…. ). ASME has formulated formula such that operating condition scenario should be taken care (e.May 23 at 1:55pm via mobile · Like Krishna Desai Regarding the deformation of the equipment or any part I am completely not agree as if you refer Stress strain curve. After holding time over. 1.. Hydrotest is to ensure that equipment will be safe in operation at operating pressure and temperature. I am not stating that there will be deformation but there will be any visual dents or bulge out over equipment due to hydrotest. Otherwise Inspector can directly rejects the equipment….May 23 at 10:43am · Like Dushyant Verma There should not be any relation between Duration of Hydrotest and thickness. As I have mentioned during visual inspection hydro pressure gets reduced. Code is silent about minimum time for which vessel should face hydro pressure. Different specs provides different guideline on the same.

At temperatures above the fracture initiation transition temperature. 1. Equipment behaves in a ductile manner.Facebook . albeit slowly. above yield it will be permanent. When 30 minutes elapse. Making sure the pressure vessel hydro-static testing pressure calculated correctly as following: Hydrostatic Test Pressure = 1.. http://www. Page 378 of 390 will be visual dents laid over equipment. and then make a fast visual inspection of the external surface. stop the operation. Otherwise not. Controlling and witnessing which pressurizing is done in three stages as follow: First Stage: Raise the pressure to 40% of the final pressure. So Holding time depends upon safety to check such crack propagation in equipment during its life time. stop pressurizing. Defect extension occurs when the ultimate strain capacity of the material in the vicinity of the defect is exhausted. And it will be recorded at two different location over equipment.3 Making sure a detail and a comprehensive inspection is carried out over the whole body of the vessel and in the welding joints and attachments at this pressure. 4. Now as far as Holding Time is concerned it is decided based on time required for initiation of crack due to internal pressure and temperature.. And that one will be also if there is any deficiency during Hydrotest.html www. with crack growth continuing._printArticle. and keep for 30 minutes (or as advised by inspector).May 23 at 3:11pm · Like · Remove Preview Static Equipment Group .” This inspection pressure can be calculated as following: Inspection Pressure = Hydrostatic Test Pressure / 1. keep it for 5 minutes.ogj. Making sure the filling and pressurizing are done from the lowest point and venting from the highest point. Witnessing water overflow through the venting in order to assure that no air bubbles remain in the vessel. So some time is needed. So some time is required to investigate if such cracks going to take place or not. as far as pressure drop is concerned it will be recordable after some time. But below it even though it is not permanent but it is there. stop the operation. This time is Holding Time. Making sure the vessel is immediately and carefully drained after the test and dried by air.3 x MAWP X Stress ratio Stress Ratio = (Allowable Stress at Test Temperature)/(Allowable Stress at Design Temperature) 6. Ductile failure is time- dependent. Below is the common test procedure.com.com/articles/print/vol-110/issue-3/transportation/study-questions- specified. making sure the de-pressurizing is started and the pressure is dropped to the “Inspection Pressure. 3.ogj. keep for 5 minutes and make a fast visual inspection on external surface. For more information on Holding time refer below article. 5. Third Stage: Restart pressurizing up to 100% of the final pressure.ogj. 2.com/articles/print/vol-110/issue-3/transportation/study-questions- specified..html http://www. The vast majority of Equipment with an operating temperature above its fracture initiation transition temperature. Second Stage: Restart pressurizing up to 70% of final pressure.

.Whats the conclusion for holding time for hydrotest.. for equipment corrosponding to severe sour service condition. If some specification says it should be as per thickness basis.. TK.5 factor and describing the theory of realising of elastic strain."…June 21 at 7:13am · Like Static Equipment Group . "The maximum hydrostatic test stresses limited to 80% of the minimum specified yield stress. but let me give my coin of withsdom: If there are reinforcing plates and you did not witness air test on them. Still if any metallurgist in our group can guide us better…. However.May 24 at 3:05pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Purav. let the hydrostatic pressure for one ho. So that can be the one reason to have more holding time…. So may be due to this on thickness basis they are deciding holding time. See More…May 25 at 12:04am via mobile · Like · 2 Krishna Desai Would like to add one requirement from TOTAL specification for Sour service.. I can say that there should not be any important criteria to fixing the same. Page 379 of 390 Purav Desai Guys. can we raise a question on it? The chart attached by Hemant Solanki is good but i am not sure that all vendors are following it….. AD code is applying 1.May 24 at 3:25pm via mobile · Like Rahul Valand Below is one of the post by senior Engineer on the same topic. Means with higher thickness have more chance for crack growth etc. As far as I have seen all the European and korean vendors are providing this kind of pressure- Temperature chart recorder which is now a days mandatory requirements from some clients like BG. BP.May 24 at 3:15pm · Like Krishna Desai Dear Purav. Regarding holding time. I think crack propagation with respect to thickness will vary.Basically for stabilisation of strain…. " There is nothing specified in ASME.Facebook .May 24 at 3:17pm via mobile · Like Krishna Desai Read "releasing" instead of "realising".

com/forum/#!topic/materials-welding/cGlbv_NppAc Dear all. but does not specify parameters for this treatment. Usually the parameters which are adopted? Hi Jose. Static Equipment Group .Facebook . says it should be agreed in advance.google. The specification of my client requires to be carried stabilization heat treatment in WPS qualification for material TP 321.------------------- Hemant Solanki Heat treatment for TP 321 steels Very good discussion at below google group: https://groups. Page 380 of 390 Hemant Solanki The electrochemical series Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 5 at 12:04pm via Facebook for Windows Phone Kajasakthivel Narayanan likes this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

Eng. sulfur. BOTH base metals. hydrogen sulfide [H2S]). Following stabilization anneal. metal sulfides) or with other oxidizable sulfur species (e. Pradip Goswami. chromium carbide is precipitated at the grain boundaries. Polythionic acid (it's in the family of Sulfurous/Sulfuric Acids) gets formed by reaction of oxygen and water with sulfide corrosion products (i. welding consumables should be procured stabilization HT and above ASTM test if asked for.e. Thanks. these grain boundaries are preferentially attached.Facebook .550 to 1. In order to pass the stabilization anneal HT on PQR .  A thermal stabilization heat treatment at 1650 DegF (899 Deg C) may be applied to chemically stabilized austenitic stainless steel welds after all welding is complete in an attempt to reduce sensitization and PTA susceptibility. A sensitizing heat treatment is often applied to L and/or chemically stabilized grades prior to testing. FYI the other document to know about various effects of PTA SCC and engineering mitigation techniques is API -RP-2011 or earlier versions. See below the extracts of API-RP 571.. In the presence of certain strongly corrosive media. This heat treatment is difficult to apply in the field. a general weakening of the metal results. When the unstabilized chromium-nickel steels are held in or slowly cooled through the range of 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C). overall corrosion as the unstabilized chromium nickel Type 304.IWE Welding & Metallurgical Specialist Dear José: The Type 321 alloy offers similar resistance to general. and a complete Static Equipment Group . This damage mechanism is typically associated with refining high "S" crude and occurs typically during the shutdown cycle. P. such as Type 304 would be susceptible to intergranular corrosion. ASTM A 262 Practice C is advisable (when asked by the client). Type 321 has been developed for applications where the unstabilized chromium-nickel steels.S..650 °F) for 2 to 4 hours to preferentially allow the precipitation of titanium or niobium carbides. The typical stabilization anneal cycle recommended by NACE SP 170-2012(formerly RP170- 2004) is:-  843 to 900 °C (1.  Susceptibility to PASCC can be determined by laboratory corrosion testing according to ASTM A262 Practice C. Cr stays in solution around these temperatures which ensures the corrosion resistance of 321 grade S.g. during the shut down cycle. Heating for long periods of time in the chromium carbide precipitation range may affect the general resistance of Type 321 in corrosive media. Page 381 of 390 Stabilization anneal HT is typically recommended for refinery application for 300 series austenitic S.S and other austenitic alloys to mitigate Polythionic acid SCC (PTASCC).

This range is Static Equipment Group . The annealing temperature range for Type 321 is 1800 to 2000° F (928 to 1093° C). Relieving strains be annealing for only a few hours in the 800 to 1500°F (427 to 816° C) range will not cause any noticeable lowering in the general corrosion resistance. For maximum ductility. intergranular cracks form. this steel may also be stress relief annealed within the carbide precipitation range 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C). For these reasons the degree of stabilization and of resulting protection may be less pronounced when Type 321 is employed. Experience gained in a wide range of service conditions has provided sufficient data to generally predict the possibility of intergranular attach in most applications. While the primary purpose of annealing is to obtain softness and high ductility. Please review the comments under the HEAT TREATMENT section. The extent to which carbide precipitation may be harmful depends upon the length of time the alloy was exposed to 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C) and upon the corrosive environment. For optimum resistance.Facebook . Exposure of non- stabilized austenitic stainless steel to temperatures in the sensitizing range will cause the precipitation of chromium carbides at grain boundaries. the sulfide (often hydrogen sulfide) reacts with moisture and oxygen to form polythionic acids which attach the sensitized grain boundaries. When thin gauge material is welded the time in the temperature range of 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C) is so short that with most corroding media the unstabilized type material is generally satisfactory. Polythionic acid SCC has occurred n oil refinery environments where sulfides are common. however. Under conditions of stress. Type 321 is used for heavy welded equipment which is operated between 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C) or slowly cooled through this range. without any danger of subsequent intergranular corrosion. It consists of heating to 1550 to 1650° F (843 to 899° C) for up to 5 hours depending on thickness. When fabrication chromium-nickel stainless steel into equipment requiring the maximum protection against carbide precipitation obtainable through use of a stabilized grade. On cooling to room temperature in a sulfide-containing environment.03% or less. The stabilized Type 321 alloy offers a solution to polythionic acids SCC by resisting sensitization during elevated temperature service. these alloys should be used in the thermally stabilized condition if service related conditions may result in sensitization. As emphasized. it is essential to recognize that there is a difference between the stabilizing ability of columbium and titanium. In general. When maximum corrosion resistance is called for. annealing in the 800 to 1500° F (427 to 816° C) temperature range does not result in a susceptibility to intergranular attack. Even the longer heating times involved in welding heavy gauges are not harmful to the unstabilized “L” grade alloys where the carbon content is kept to low amounts of 0. although prolonged heating within this range does tend to lower the general corrosion resistance to some extent. it may be necessary with Type 321 to employ a corrective remedy which is known as a stabilizing anneal. Type 321 is particularly useful under conditions which cause polythionic acid stress corrosion of non-stabilized austenitic stainless steels such as Type 304. the higher annealing range of 1800 to 2000° F (928 to 1093° C) is recommended. Page 382 of 390 disintegration may occur.

Normally vessel vendor will indicate this requirement to mill at the time of plate procurement. No of heat treatment cycle will be decided based on worst condition. If vessel is required pwht due to any criteria. 1. In case of normalising of dished heads. In short simulation heat treatment is required when there is repair requirement. Page 383 of 390 above that within which chromium carbides are formed and is sufficiently high to cause dissociation and solution of any that may have been previously developed. Mill will comply this requirements. With simulation heat treatment weld coupon from same vessel is undergoing heat treatment cycle of anticipated time. Specially toughness with charpy impact test. This topic is discussed in this forum in detail in other posts. Ramin Kondori Sr. coupons shall be tested as per code requirements…. And then it's mechanical properties tested.July 25 at 10:27pm via mobile · Like · 2 Sachin Pawar Simulation Heat Treatment is also required in case of PWHT of a cladded vessel to avoid sensitization of stainless steel material. Your response is partially correct…July 25 at 10:08pm via mobile · Like Kajasakthivel Narayanan In general requirement of simulation heat treatment is not mandatory. To ensure that weld joints will not diminish its mechanical properties due to high temperature heat treatment cycles…. But risk is with vendor. The result is that the chromium is restored to solid solution and carbon is forced into combination with titanium as harmless carbides.July 24 at 10:02pm · Like · 1 Pramod Kshirsagar Thanks Hemant…July 24 at 11:14pm · Like Kajasakthivel Narayanan Hemant. Furthermore. then before starting fabrication sample of plate will under go for heat treatment then properties will be checked. If client spec calls for it. QA/QC Engineer SINOPEC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.e.July 27 at 10:06pm via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . carbon steel which is a sensitization range for SS! To ensure that this doesn't occur. After simulation heat treatment if sample doesn't meet the properties then material may be rejected…. For example if vessel with pwht requirement involves site welding then sample plate will under go minimum three heat treatment. you may need to remove oxides with a mixture of nitric and hydrofluoric acid to restore corrosion resistance.however many client specifications asks for SPWHT of CS plates. it is the temperature at which titanium combines with carbon to form harmless titanium carbides. But if required quantity is less and vendor decides to procure from ware house. You can search it for detailed answer. And after repair same joint is required to heat treat. according to this clause CS plates are exempted from SPWHT. After heat treatment. please refer UCS-85 of Div. simulation heat treatment of production test coupon is carried out…. Shop + site + provision for repair in future.------------------- Pramod Kshirsagar Where Simulation Heat Treatment is required in CS plates? Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 24 at 9:38pm Hemant Solanki Hi. Because cladded plate will follow heat treatment cycle for base material i. then vendor will have to do this simulation test.Facebook .July 27 at 7:03pm · Like Patel Sudhir If your question is from ASME code point of view. Then that joint will face heat treatment of higher temperature for longer time in its life time.

2 Tube Bundle : The following areas of the tube bundle should be examined at a minimum: (a)the first three rows adjacent to the inlet nozzle and the last two rows adjacent to the exit nozzle.July 29 at 12:31am via mobile · Like · 1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. (e)areas that have not previously been examined.July 28 at 2:45pm · Like Kajasakthivel Narayanan No. I was looking for same reply as I am in estimation and prepare the enquiry for getting plate offers. You have to indicate actual no of cycles required which should be more than no of cycles envisaged. as per (a) through (e).12. (d)areas with a history of active damage mechanisms.1 Fixed Tube Count : The following minimum number of tubes inspected should be considered: (a)50 tubes or 25% of tube total.July 27 at 11:33pm via mobile · Like · 1 Pramod Kshirsagar Thanks a lot Narayanan. up to 750 tubes (c)15% of tube total for heat exchangers with a total tube count of 750 tubes or more. Page 384 of 390 Kajasakthivel Narayanan Sample for Simulation heat treatment and production test coupon both terms are different. the perimeter of each pass shall be included. For multipass heat exchangers. (c)a selection of tubes in the interior section of the bundle.000 tubes (d)10% of tube total for heat exchangers with a total tube count of more than 1. Simulation heat treatment will be done before fabrication. Mandatory Appendix 1 I-1. Production test coupon will be taken at the time of fabrication. (b)every second tube around the perimeter of the bundle. But as per my understanding cost different won't be much. Hence cost different won't be much. Hence we should not confuse both…. for heat exchangers with a total tube count of less than 500 tubes (b)20% of tube total for heat exchangers with a total tube count of 500 tubes or more. However please ensure the same with mill…. up to 1. Static Equipment Group .Article 3. (f)failure of 10% of the tubes examined shall require an additional 10% of tubes to be examined in the examined area. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 21 at 11:38am Mrudang Mehta likes this.Facebook .000 tubes I-1.------------------- Hemant Solanki Exchanger .Why I am asking because if I add additional SHT price of plate will increase…. I heard from one qc engineer that normally mill will have portable furnace to carry out simulation heat treatment.how many tubes to test and which ones to test? According to ASME PCC 2 . My other question is it possible with 1 SHT cycle is given in enquiry and it will be enough for additional provision of site and repair. whichever is greater.

Maximum allowable working pressure in operating condition (temperature. Static Equipment Group . Dushyant Verma. 2010) Question : How does PV Elite compute Tubesheet MAWP. Page 385 of 390 Hemant Solanki Effect of PWHT on Materials Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 1 at 8:50pm via Facebook for Windows Phone Arpita Shah. But. There is no book reference that we know of. But. corrosion considered). how is related to hydrotest case ? Answer : Just to define the terms before the explanation. when there is pressure only one side (shell or channel). It is important to note that these are not operating condition MAWPs. how is related to hydrotest case ? Modeling Fixed Tubesheet Exchangers with PV Elite Webinar Questions & Answers. instead these MAWP/MAP represent the condition during a typical hydrotest. ASME does not provide a procedure to find the MAWP and MAP of the exchanger. MAP .Maximum allowable pressure in new and cold condition. Purav Desai and 7 others like this. This is done for each qualification criteria for the heat exchanger. MAWP .Facebook . (held on April 15. we have to run the calculations many times by setting the pressure to 0 on one side and then increasing the pressure on the other side such that the actual stress is just below the allowable stress. Hemant Solanki How does PV Elite compute Tubesheet MAWP..

so the allowable would be different for them..Head(Hyd) Pressure per UG100 = 1.W. and then you have to compare the stresses to some higher allowables. Like · · Follow Post · August 23 at 9:55pm Tushar Mangrati likes this. you would have to perform the check yourself.can be done once hydrotest time is over & all inspection is done.3 * Design Pres * Sa/S Pressure per UG99c = 1. I am asking blasting & painting from out side to shell and roof. Pressure per UG99b = 1.43 * MAWP But..W. Mrudang Mehta and 2 others like this. My specific question is whether the code allows us or not? If not as per what clause? Water is in inside tank. put the hydrotest pressures. Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · July 15 at 6:22pm via Email Sharath Krishnan..P. Tushar Mangrati According to me water should not be there while blasting & painting !!! as if any how the water is made contact with the wet paint coating. Page 386 of 390 The basic test of MAWP is to put it in the place of the design pressure. then there may be problem in achieving the required DFT coating thickness !!!! And also durin blasting there may problem of some mishappen near gasketted joint!!!!!!!!. and then the calculation should still work out. If yes. none of the ASME Sec.P.3 * M.. There are many failure criterions for different types of stresses. There is some work going on in ASME regarding this and once it is incorporated in the code we can implement it in PV Elite..A.1 * M. set temperatures to ambient. To compute the hydrotest pressure you have following options..Facebook . .8 m height.A.. Rohitash Singh Panwar. 42 m dia x 10. If you really want to run a hydrotest case in PV Elite. I am constructing sulphar and water storage tanks. VIII codes tell us how to check the exchanger in the hydrotest condition.A. Prabhakar Kulkarni I have a query. I am asking weather the code allows us or not? Common sense is telling me inside there is water or anything from out side blasting & painting there is no problem. For the operating MAWPs with shell side and channel side pressures acting at same time. you can add 1 more load case. can anyone give reference? URGENT.August 24 at 2:12am · Like · 1 Jayesh Rathod this is not an issue. Any one here on forum from BGAS certification? Thanks & best regards Static Equipment Group ..3 * M. After hydrotest is over while water is inside can I do outside blasting and painting? Or the code does not allow. August 24 at 6:15am via mobile · Like Prabhakar Kulkarni Tushar.P. In the future we can address this in PV Elite. How come it will come in contact with paint from out side? I do not want answer from common sense. * Sa/S Pressure per UG99b[34] = 1. * Sa/S Pressure per PED = 1.

tell me what does api650 tells about my case? Thanks & best regards Prabhakar Kulkarni..... Page 387 of 390 Prabhakar Kulkarni. Can we go ahead with blasting & paint as per code is my question? Can you refer code? Thanks & best regards Prabhakar Kulkarni.August 24 at 11:27pm · Like Prabhakar Kulkarni i have no time mahadevan. This induces oxidation (in turn scale or rust back in surface). Water is to be transferred to another tank for Hydro-test... so from clause K we can assume that ... It's your call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! August 25 at 11:47pm · Like Static Equipment Group . Another tank is not ready.August 25 at 9:42pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I agree with Jayesh...Facebook .August 24 at 8:37pm · Like Jayesh Rathod prabhakar.. code does not specify anything for blasting/painting August 24 at 8:57pm via mobile · Like Tushar Mangrati As per clause k of UG-99. August 24 at 10:22pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran Sorry to join in between.August 24 at 8:34pm · Like Prabhakar Kulkarni Rathod... where does UG-99 come in picture when API 650 or equivalent is being discussed. Immediately after blast within a stipulated time the primer coat has to be applied. Hydro-test is over.August 24 at 11:24pm · Like Mahadevan Venkiteswaran When you actually blast it removes the scale and presence of moist air around the blast surface is not preferable. there will be no problem of performing blasting & painting even if hydrotest water is filled inside the vessel.. painting can be done prior to pressure test ( except that vessel should not meant for lethal substance ) ...

Page 388 of 390 Hemant Solanki Equipment Testing Type Selection Like · · Unfollow Post · August 30 at 12:48pm Static Equipment Group .Facebook .

.. Let us know final decision on this. Also just check whether Pevlite is calculating UG-99 (c ) test pressure by adjusting height of equipment converted into equivalent hydro pressure ? Shop hydro test pressure should be adjusted in order to take care site hydro test static head which bottom most part will face. as this hydro will going to take place in shop. If I get any excel file then i will definitely mail you... a pressure test shall be applied if the inspector believes that one is necessary.August 30 at 12:57pm · Like · 1 Hemant Solanki As per API 510.Facebook . Pressure tests are not normally conducted as part of routine inspection. Hemant Solanki You need to consider MAP of corresponding equipment. September 1 at 7:56pm · Like · 2 Krutika Shah perfect description September 2 at 10:50am via mobile · Like Static Equipment Group . how I can calculate hydrotest pressure as per UG-99(c) ? ... So if these cleats are pad mounted.August 31 at 9:41am via mobile · Like Kewal Kareliya client accepted my waiver.com Like · · Unfollow Post · September 1 at 7:22pm via mobile Krutika Shah likes this.however suitable NDE shall be carried out like MPT/DPT.. Remember hydrotest we do to test equipment reliability under operating conditions.... But whatever I am writing on experience basis. Substituting NDE procedures for a pressure test after an alteration may be done only after the engineer and inspector have approved. A pressure test is normally required after an alteration. I do not have any code reference.. If you are using Pvelite than directly select UG-99 (c ) option in it. SS vessel.August 30 at 6:34pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki If cleat cover area on vessel is not more than we can ask inspector to exempt it from re-hydrotest....Check API 510 for details. if Pveliet do not take care of the same then calculate that equivalent pressure and add it in UG-99 (c ) pressure and in Pvelite file add it as user defined option.. Welding of small area cleats locally will not hamper strength of equipment. Alternatives to pressure tests is as outlined below. since it is a minor repair/alteration & not falling on major welds...hydrotest on some fabrication rework of external cleats after hydro. After repairs are completed. Page 389 of 390 Kewal Kareliya hi guys does anyone know d code reference for exemption of re. Like · · Unfollow Post · August 29 at 6:42pm via mobile Hemant Solanki What kind of rework it contains ? As per your post it is for external cleats.August 30 at 1:52pm · Like Kewal Kareliya ok I also din't found any code ref for exemption on re-hydrotest .August 30 at 7:10pm · Like Jayesh Rathod as per API 510. also uncheck corroded hydro test in pvelite as MAP / Shop hydro test will be at new condition. Just discuss above points with your inspector and ask for exemption from re-hydrotest.also for yr info cleat was directly mounted on the vessel... Meanwhile you check as i have described.August 31 at 7:06pm via mobile · Like Prafful Chaudhary Dear friends Just now I am handling u stamp job . Also if these cleats are away from long and circumferential weld seams of vessel than it will be added advantage. And if you are going to do repair on cleats only (means removal of it and then installing new one on existing pad) then re-hydro test is not required. here just take care to select hydrotest position as horizontal even though your equipment is vertical.. if any buddy having excel file request you to provide at praffulbhai1988@gmail.. · Appropriate NDE shall be specified and conducted when a pressure test is not performed after a major repair or alteration. hydrotest can be avoided.. so we can think on avoiding re-hydro of same equipment.

Like · · Unfollow Post · September 9 at 12:56pm 2 people like this. Page 390 of 390 Hemant Solanki Pressure Vessel Safety Incidents : This is an example of brittle fracture caused by using cold water for a hydrostatic pressure test and then pressurizing vessel. Mahadevan Venkiteswaran I guess this is one of the reason for the code suggesting minimum temperature for hydrotest. it recommends that the temperature be 10°F above for 2” (50mm) thickness and under and 30°F above for over 2 inches (50mm)...September 9 at 9:35pm · Like Hemant Solanki It is recommended that the metal temperature during hydrostatic test be maintained at least 30°F above the minimum design metal temperature.September 9 at 10:51pm via mobile · Like Hemant Solanki Pressure Vessel Safety Incidents : LP Gas storage sphere collapsed while being filled for a hydrostatic pressure test killing a worker underneath. Support legs had corroded due to water trapped between insulation and support column. Like · · Unfollow Post · September 9 at 12:58pm Giri Prasad likes this.. API 510 has a different rule for this. The temperature of the water caused the metal to become brittle.. but need not exceed 120°F.... to minimize the risk of brittle fracture. MDMT + xyz deg C.Facebook .. Static Equipment Group .