Are Too Many People Going to College?
The author is responding to the questions of if
Charles Murray
Murray, C. (2012). Are too many people going to
college. In G. Graff, C, Birkenstein, & R.K
Durst, They say/I say: The moves that matter in
academic writing, with readings. New York:
W.W. Norton & Company.
-Students at the 80th percentile of academic
ability are still smart kids, but the odds that they
will respond to a course that assigns Mill or
Milton are considerably lower than the odds that
a student in the top few percentiles will
respond. p. 227
-The question here is not whether the traditional
four-year residential college is fun or valuable as
a place to grow up, but when it makes sense as a
place to learn how to make a living. The answer
is: in a sensible world, hardly ever. p. 229
-He is at the 70th percentile in linguistic ability
and logical mathematical abilitysomeone who
shouldnt go to college by my standards, but who
can, in todays world, easily find a college that
will give him a degree. p. 234
-Of those who entered a four-year college in
1995, only 58 percent had gotten their B.A. five
academic years later. Another 14 percent were
still enrolled. If we assume that half of that 14
percent eventually get their B.A.s, about a third
of all those who entered college hoping for a
B.A. leave without one. p. 240
-The more people who go to college, the more
stigmatizing the failure to complete college
becomes. p. 241
-Employers do not even interview applicants
who do not hold a B.A. Even more brutal, the
advantage conferred by the B.A. often has
nothing to do with the content of the education.
Employers do not value what the student learned,
just that the student has a degree. p. 233
college is worth it, and if too many people are
going to college for the degree to matter.
He makes a few statements. First, he says too
many people are going to college. The author
believes that only those in the very top
percentiles should be going to college, as they
are the only ones who will benefit from it. He
says that not many of the jobs that people get
degrees for, actually need degrees. Employers
require everyone to be college educated when it
doesnt really even apply to the job. The author
says that high schoolers are being pushed
towards college when they shouldnt be, because
not many of them need it or will benefit. At one
point, he says colleges are giving out diplomas,
implying that they were not deserved.
Some key ideas are that 1. Many jobs that
students get degrees for shouldnt require
degrees. 2. College should only be for the most
elite, including those studying to become doctors
and lawyers. 3. People assume a degree will earn
you more money, when in reality, so many
people have degrees now that it is much harder
than that.
I agree with this author to a point. So many
people do go to college now so yes, degrees are
common. They are required far more than they
should be. Not everyone has the means to go to
college but are still capable of doing a great job
in a profession. However, the author sounds
extremely condescending to those he doesnt
think deserve to be in college. I question some of
his statements, like how he thinks those under
the top 10 percentiles should not attend college.
Hard work makes for good success.
Why are so many more people going to college?
Is this trend going to keep going, will not having
a degree make it impossible to live?
Why do so many jobs require a degree when it is
not necessary for that certain job?
Percentiles- of what?
B.A
Why Do You Think Theyre Called For-Profit
Colleges?
Kevin Carey
Carey, K. (2012). Why do you think theyre
called for-profit colleges. In G. Graff, C,
Birkenstein, & R.K Durst, They say/I say: The
moves that matter in academic writing, with
readings. New York: W.W. Norton & Company.
-Without oversight, the combination of
government subsidies and financially
unsophisticated consumers guarantees outright
fraud or programs that, while technically
legitimate, are so substandard that the distinction
of legitimacy as no meaning. p. 217
-Many of their students come from moderate-
and low-income backgrounds. You dont need a
college degree to know that large debt plus small
income equals high risk of default. p. 218
-But that doesnt mean for-profit higher
education is inherently bad. The reputable parts
of the industry are at the forefront of much
technological and organizational innovation.
p. 219
-Most of that money comes from the federal
government, in the form of Pell Grants and
subsidized student loans. Pheonix alone is on
pace to reap $1-billion from Pell Grants this year,
along with $4-billion from federal loans. A
quarter of all federal aid goes to for-profits,
while they enroll only 10 percent of students. p.
216
The author is responding to for-profit college. He
answers questions about how they work and how
much money they are gaining.
Carey starts off by talking about Michael Cliffod,
a wealthy man who buys dying for-profit
colleges and basically flips them into money
making machines for himself. He then goes on to
discuss some problems with for-profits. These
include the extreme amounts of money they gain
while having so few students, and how they seem
to take advantage over the students. He says that
although public universities fight for the for-
profits to end, they arent going to.
Key ideas: 1. For-profits overcharge to an
extreme and dont provide quality learning. 2.
They target low income students and leave them
with enormous debt. 3. They are focused on
money, and money alone.
I agree with Carey on the idea that for-profit
colleges have some morally wrong practices.
They do take advantage of students are seem
extremely greedy to me, only caring about the
money. Although they are bad, they do provide
high end technology and equipment which can
be used by students. I also have to unfortunately
agree that they wont be going away any time
soon. I dont have any disagreements with the
author.
How exactly are for-profits allowed to operate in
this way?
How do they compare to regular universities,
how much more money are they gaining?
What regulations are in place to keep for-profits
in check?
For-profit- what exactly is it?
Two Years Are Better Thank Four
Liz Addison
Addison, L. (2012) Two years are better than
four. In G. Graff, C, Birkenstein, & R.K Durst,
They say/I say: The moves that matter in
academic writing, with readings. New York:
W.W. Norton & Company.
-The philosophy of the community college, and
I have been to two of them, is one that
unconditionally allows its students to begin.
p. 212
-Just recently, I read an article in the New York
Times describing a college application essay
workshop for low-income students. I was
strangely disturbed that those interviewed made
no mention of community college. p. 213
-Yet, arguably, the community college
experience is more critical to the nation than that
of former beatnik types who, lest we forget, did
not change the world. p. 213
-The community colleges of America cover this
country college by college and community by
community. They offer a network of affordable
future, of accessible hope, and an option to
dream. p. 213-214
-For some students, from many backgrounds,
would never breathe the college experience if it
were not for the community college. p. 214
The author is discussing community college. She
is responding to Rick Perlstein stating that the
college experience is over.
Addison discusses her opinions of community
colleges. She brings up that when college is
suggested to prospective students, it is always
universities, not community colleges. She
believes that community colleges are responsible
for allowing anyone to go to college, because it
is a beginning and can open doors and create
dreams.
Key Ideas: 1. Information about community
colleges are not presented to students enough
2. Community colleges provide a stepping stone
to education, are easy to attend, and open many
opportunities.
I really agree with the author. As someone who is
on their second university, I really wish I had
gone to community to save money while still
getting the same education. She encourages
counselors and other who influence prospective
students to give them information about
community colleges, that universities are not
their only option. I dont know if I necessarily
agree with the author when she says that
community college is MORE important, but
perhaps it is just as important as universities.
This article differs than the others because it
focuses more on the community college aspect,
where most articles I have seen are focused on
the universities.
Do community colleges have standards that
compare to universities?
Why do people automatically assume that
universities are better? Is it because of the cost
differences?
How are community colleges able to have the
lower prices that they do? Is it because they
generally dont have as many programs,
academic or extracurricular?
Olevel
University of Privilege
New Liberal Arts Ungar is responding to the argument that in the
Sanford J. Ungar recession, liberal arts degrees are useless and not
sensible degree choices.
Sanford, U. (2012). New liberal arts. In G. Graff,
C, Birkenstein, & R.K Durst, They say/I say: The This author states a few misperceptions that
moves that matter in academic writing, with people have about liberal arts degrees and
readings. New York: W.W. Norton & Company. disputes them. He says that they are a better
investment than other career degrees because
-It is far wiser for students to prepare for change they prepare you for a wide variety of jobs, not
and the multiple careers they are likely to have just one. He says that employers are more likely
than to search for a single job track that might to hire someone with a liberal arts degree
one day become a dead end. p. 191 because they are well-rounded. Ungar says that
liberal arts schools provide opportunities for
-An astounding 89 percent said they were those with disadvantages and although they are
looking for more emphasis on the ability to expensive, they provide better financial aid. He
effectively communicate orally and in writing, also argues that although other countries may not
and almost as many urged the development of have liberal arts schools currently, they are
better critical thinking and analytical reasoning starting to catch on and understand why they are
skills. Seventy percent said they were on the important.
lookout for the ability to innovate and be
creative. p. 192 Key Ideas: 1. Liberal arts is more useful than
other degrees. 2. They prepare you better for a
-This is a country where a mixed-race child variety of positions. 3. They make better thinkers
raised overseas by a struggling single mother
who confronts impossible odds can group up to I agree with some of the points Ungar makes. I
be president. It is precisely a liberal education agree that liberal arts degrees are good because
that allowed him to catch up and move ahead. they are expanding all the time. But STEM
p. 193 education is also extremely important, which
Ungar does not seem to think. I agree that they
-It promotes the idea of listening to all points of prepare you for a wider variety of jobs and
view and not relying on a single ideology, and careers. I dont agree that they are more
examining all approaches to solving a problem important than STEM education. While they are
rather than assuming that one technique or very useful, STEM provides job opportunities
perspective has all the answers. p. 194 that will always be there. Doctors will never
become obsolete, and neither will engineers. I
-Further, in recent years, delegations from also agree with Ungar when he says that cost is a
China have been visiting the United States and bigger problem, and it doesnt just affect liberal
asking pointed questions about the liberal arts, arts schools.
seemingly because they feel there may be good
reason to try that approach to education. p. 195 What qualifies a degree or school as liberal arts?
Why is money such a huge problem with all
-The best way to understand genuine national colleges, why has the cost risen so much?
priorities is to follow the money, and by that Have any of these other countries started liberal
standard, education is not really all that arts programs?
important to this country. p. 195
Liberal Arts
Career Education
STEM fields
A Lifetime of Student Debt? Not likely
Robin Wilson
Wilson, R. (2012). A lifetime of student debt, not
likely. In G. Graff, C, Birkenstein, & R.K Durst,
They say/I say: The moves that matter in
academic writing, with readings. New York:
W.W. Norton & Company.
-Why do some students borrow more than
$40,000 for a bachelors degree when average is
only borrowing half of that? The answer is
almost never that they are from very low-income
families and need that much money to get a four-
year degree. . . More often, the problem among
students who go heavily into debt is that they are
determined to attend their dream college, no
matter the cost. p. 257
-Part of the confusion over the student-loan
issue is that undergraduate debt is frequently
conflated with graduate and profession-school
debtwhich is typically much, much higher.
p. 259
-Even in this economy, college graduates are
much better off than high-school graduates. Yes,
white-collar employees are losing their jobs. But
the unemployment rate for people over 25 years
old who hold at least a bachelors degree is 4.4
percent, compared with a 9.3 percent for people
that age who hold only a high-school diploma.
p. 260-261
-Many borrowers who find themselves in
trouble use options under the federal loan
program that allow them to postpone repayments
on their loans for years. The problem is that
because interest keeps racking up during such a
deferment and after a default, the amount a
borrower owes can soar. p. 262
-Meanwhile, it is no ones job to talk to students
about whether the amounts they are borrowing
line up with their professional aspirations or even Conflated
their immediate job prospects. p. 264
Wilson is discussing student loans. She is
answering questions regarding whether student
loans are too high or not, and if they are realistic.
This author discusses how some former students
are starting to lash out over their high student
loans. She points out that those students are in
the minority that have debts over $40,000. She
discusses the average cost of loans and why
some students have numbers far higher than
average. She seems to be saying that although
loans may be high, they are worth it. The author
then tells some stories of individuals and how
they make their lives still work, even with
student debt.
Key Ideas: 1. Student loans are bearable. 2.
Those with extremely high student debts are in
the minority
I agree that the average student debts are doable,
but not for everyone. I have mixed feeling about
this article because although many people do
make it work, it is still absolutely ridiculous that
in a world where a degree is basically a necessity
if you want to even be considered for a decent
job, it has such an incredibly high cost that is not
reachable for everyone. One of the speakers in
this article mentioned by Wilson talks about how
students are not properly educated on the
consequences of loans and whether it is realistic
for them, which I really do agree with. As a
college student who has already had to take out
thousands of dollars of loans, I can say that
nobody has really educated me on loans, other
than to say what they are and how they work.
Why have college costs risen so much,
increasing the need for student loans?
What incomes are needed to be able to pay off
debts?
Why isnt there proper education on loans?
Deferment
White-collar vs blue-collar
Why College Isnt Worth The Money
Casey Bond
Bond, C. (2015). Why college isnt worth the money.
Forbes. Retrieved from
https://www.forbes.com/sites/caseybond/2015/09/04/why
-college-isnt-worth-the-money/#2349a4c4653d
-Unfortunately, good was often interpreted to mean
expensive. There was little conversation around the
reality of paying for that education. p. 1
-Clearly, a gap between perception and reality exists.
And thats a major reason why more than 40 million
Americans are burdened with a student loan debt that
totals over $1 trillion. p. 1
-The growing student debt is due, in large part, to the
federal governments financial interest in student loans.
The government pocketed more than $41 billion during
the fiscal year 2013 alonea profit higher than all but
two companies in the world: Exxon Mobil and Apple.
p. 2
-Starting late can be a good idea, especially if it gives
you time to gain valuable real-world work experience
while you figure out what you really want to do. p. 2
-As a millennial, I belong to the generation that was told
we could do anything if we put our minds to it. We are all
special. And if we wanted to get high-paying jobs worthy
of our talents, we needed a good education. p. 1
-My employer could not have cared less where I
received my degreethe important part was that I had
one. p. 1
-High school graduates not only have the benefit of a
four-year head start in the workforce, they are blissfully
free from any kind of student loan debt. Meanwhile,
college grads must begin paying off the debt theyve
accumulated, regardless of whether or not theyre able to
find employment in todays competitive job market.
p. 1
The author is responding the worth of
college and answering the question of
whether or not college is actually worth
the costs.
Bond begins by stating their opinion,
that their college experience was not
worth it. They cover statistics about how
much loans have gone up. They make
the interesting point that although many
people want to go to a prestigious school
to get a better job, employers dont
really care what school you went to as
long as you have the degree. Bond says
that those who dont go to college have
an advantage because they have more
time to get a job and they dont have
student loans to pay off. They say that
debt can be crippling and make one put
off life events. They also say that
college rates will not go down because
the government is profiting so much
from it.
Key Ideas: 1. The university doesnt
matter, just the degree. 2. College right
out of high school may not always be
the best option. 3. The government is
mostly responsible for the increased
rates.
I have to say I agree with the author on
pretty much all of these points. The only
one I dont agree with quite as much as
the others is that high school graduates
have an advantage. While it may be true
that they dont get student debts, it is
becoming increasingly harder to find a
decent job without a degree. Even with a
degree it is competitive.
How is the government allowed to profit
so much from this?
In the long run, is it better to go to
college or not?
Where did the idea start that college
name was so important?
Millenial
4 Advantages to Choosing a Community College This author is responding to the debate of
Over a University community college vs university. He answers
Amanda Abella questions over which is better.

Abella, A. (2016). 4 advantages to choosing a Abella compares community colleges to

community college over a university. Discover. universities and give some advantages. She states
Retrieved from that community college is far cheaper, but its
https://www.discover.com/student-loans/college- important to make sure your credits will transfer
planning/advantages-community-college-vs- if you plan on going to university after. She notes
university.html that community colleges are good for non-
traditional students because they have very
-Some community colleges also now offer four- flexible class schedules, although a lot of
year programs for certain majors such as public universities do as well. She says that they also are
safety management, nursing and electronics good for transitions from high school because
engineering, meaning you could ultimately save you can be close to home, and have small classes
even more money on a bachelors degree. where professors can focus on each student more.
They also have classes where students who didnt
-Community colleges are often designed with do well in high school can relearn material they
the non-traditional student in mind, says may need. Abella says community colleges and
Argento, including mothers, full-time workers universities alike have career centers to help with
and students who are only attending part time. employment, and to choose a school based on the
career you want.
-One major advantage community colleges
have is their ability to help high school students Key Ideas: 1. Community college is cheaper. 2.
transition into college life when they arent quite They are flexible. 3. They help with transitioning.
ready for the independence require when going 4. They are better for certain careers.
away to school. This is typically because the
class sizes tend to be smaller, but theres also I do agree with Abella on all of her points.
something to be said for the professors Community college is a great choice for everyone
themselves. for a number of reason. It is far cheaper and still
teaches the same general education classes. I
-Most schools, whether they are two-year or sometimes do regret not going to community
four-year, have career centers and connections college before university.
that can help you find a job. When it comes to
employment opportunities, which school you For what majors is community college highly
choose really just depends on what career you recommended?
want. Is there any way that a community college is not
a good idea?
-When it comes to choosing between a two- How many students usually choose community
year community college and a four-year college before university?
university, one isnt inherently better than the
other. Which one you choose will rely heavily on Non-traditional students
cost, the kind of learning environment that
works best for you, and your desired career
path.
Do You Really Need a College Degree These This author is answering the question of if
Days? college is actually necessary for success.
Pratik Dholakiya
The author believes that college is not necessary.
Dholakiya, P. (2016). Do you really need a He says that although with a degree, statistics say
college degree these days. Entrepreneur. you will make more money, its not always true
Entrepreneur Media, Inc. Retrieved from and that you can get farther by making
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/271206 connections and having ambition. Dholakiya
says to find something you love doing, and
-Heres what statistics like there dont tell you: become the best at it in order to succeed.
You can foster ambition and make connections
without spending tens or hundreds of thousands Key ideas: 1. College isnt necessary. 2.
of dollars on a college education. The key word Connections and ambition are the keys to success
here is foster. Oftentimes, ambition is
something already within you. You either have it Although it is true that some people are able find
ready for nurturing, or you dont. great success without college, I have to disagree
with the authors main argument. He is saying all
-What you really need for success is you need is to meet the right people and try hard
surprisingly simple. Identify what you love for success, but oftentimes its really not that
which is almost always what youre good at. easy. If all you needed was ambition, nobody
Then find an accessible and reasonable way to be would go to college. Making the right
best at it, or at least the best at a part of it. connections isnt something anyone can do. You
usually have to be lucky enough to know the
-You likely already know if your ideal career right people. I agree that college is not necessary
patheven if its fuzzyrequires a degree or not. for all jobs, but I believe that the way this article
Many times, it doesnt. is worded will give people false hope and make
them think its a lot easier than it actually is.
-A degree may not be required of you after all,
and that four-year head-start might just give you How can you make the right connections to lead
the edge you need to find success. you to success?
Are there workshops or classes you can take to
learn success without college?
How do you foster your ambition without
college?

Ambition
Does Financial Aid Really Help?
No author given
Does financial aid really help. (2017). Educator.
Educator Inc. Retrieved from
http://www.educator.com/student-finance/does-
financial-aid-really-help/
Although around $74 billion in financial aid is
given this year by schools, charities, and the
state, rising costs have reduced the significance
of scholarships. On top of ever ballooning tuition
fees, students have to contend with the failing
economy, which makes jobs scarce.
-Students from select towns or cities are more
likely to get financial aid than other more worthy
students. More than a million deserving students
fail to get scholarships due to this problem.
-There are more people like Hill, who dont
know about the basic grants and scholarships
they might be eligible for. For those who do, they
find it frustrating and complicated, especially
when filling out the 145-question long FAFSA
form.
-Many sponsored students are required to work
to cover the extra expenses. The scholarship is
cut down according to the hours they spend at
work instead of class, giving them less money
and forcing the students to work more and skip
class. Its a never-ending cycle.
-For example, the federal government calculates
a familys expected contribution by assuming
that 22 percent of their money is set aside after
earning $36,000They do not take into account
the rising prices of gasoline and household items
which may force families to spend more.
-Most of them are working part-time to cover
costs and add to the meager $2,000 they get. This
caused many students to drop out for a few
semesters to pay off debts before being able to
get on their feet again. In short, their education is
affected.
The author is answering the question regarding
whether or not financial aid actually helps.
The author begins by noting that since tuition
fees are constantly rising, more and more
students are having to work while going to
school. They say that because tuition is
increasing so fast, it reduces the significance of
financial aid. Because of this, far less low-
income students are able to graduate college than
higher-income students. Getting financial aid is
even a complicated process. Not everyone knows
about the help they can get. A lot of grants and
scholarships have unknown stipulations. They
also dont take into a lot of different
considerations, as everyones situation is
different. There are caps that prevent students
from getting an adequate amount of aid. It causes
students to have to work, or even drop out.
Key Terms: 1. Financial aid doesnt help enough.
2. It cant keep up with tuition costs. 3. Students
are having to use other means to get by.
I have a lot of agreements with this author. By
currently going through college, paying on my
own through work and loans/grants, I am seeing
this all first hand. One of the points I really agree
with is that they dont consider everyones
situation. For example, my family, although not
wealthy, has the capabilities to pay for college.
However, I am not getting any help from my
family and have to pay by myself. But because
my family makes decent money, I dont get
nearly enough aid because they assume my
family is paying. The only ways to get around it
are through certain legal situations, such as being
emancipated. I also agree that tuition costs are
rising way too fast.
Why doesnt FAFSA aim to help all students?
Why doesnt aid rise at the rate that tuition does?
Is the economy responsible for the struggle of
college students?
FAFSA
Grants vs scholarships
Why Is College So Expensive?
Andrew Jensen
Jensen, A. (2016). Why is college so expensive.
Andrew Jensen Sozo Firm Inc. Retrieved from
http://www.andrewjensen.net/why-is-college-so-
expensive/
-Knowing that another party is financing their
bill makes students less concerned about the
price tag, and, if students do not protest tuition
prices, what incentive do university
administrators have to lower them?
-In todays job market, a college degree is
widely considered to be a necessity, even in
many professions where it was once considered
superfluous Colleges are well aware of public
opinion regarding college degrees, so they are
also aware that they can set tuition almost as
high as theyd like and still attract a sizeable
student body.
-However, as aid amounts have increased, so
have tuition costs, effectively negating the
benefits of increasing federal aid. Colleges and
universities know that they can raise their prices
and that students will still attendin part
because the government is handing them
money.
-Therefore, some schools tend to focus more on
the demands and needs of their professors,
alumni, investors, and other important
customers rather than the needs of their
students.
-Colleges that keep rates intentionally low are
quickly viewed as sub-par by other schools and
may run the long term risk of devaluing the
worth of education received through their
brand.
-Out of desperation, colleges pay $35 or more
merely for a new prospective students contact
information Many of these contacts prove to
be worthless, but only after a college spends in
excess of $50 per contact through phone calls
and promotional mailings as well as hefty
Jensen is answering the question that is
commonly asked, why does college cost so
much?
This author gives a few reasons for the
increasingly high costs of college. First, he says
that financial aid is a problem because people
dont care how expensive school is since
someone else is paying for it. He also says that
since tuition costs are rising so rapidly, the
benefits of financial aid are negated. Another
point he makes is that since degrees have become
so necessary and common in recent years,
colleges know that no matter the price, they will
have attendees. Jensen says that colleges feel the
need to place alumni and investors over students.
He also says that costs are rising because people
feel the need to attend expensive, classy
schools, and that cheap schools are viewed as not
as worthy. His last point is that colleges must
raise prices because they spend so much money
trying to reach out to prospective students that
normally are useless attempts.
Key Points: 1. Rising tuition costs make financial
aid useless. 2. People will go to college
regardless of the cost. 3. Colleges dont feel like
students are customers. 4. Expensive school=
better education.
This author makes some good points. I agree that
one of the costs of rising tuition is that colleges
know that they will always have students. They
raise the prices, not caring about the debt it puts
students in, all they want is the money. I also
agree that it is hard for financial aid to keep up
with the costs. Jensen makes a statement saying
that colleges will not lower prices if students do
not protest, which I agree with 100%. I also think
it is ridiculous for colleges to constantly send out
mail to prospective students when nearly all the
mail goes straight in the trash. They are wasting
so much money and resources.
Why do colleges focus more on alumni than
students?
Why do people think expensive means classy?
Why dont more people protest these costs?
payments to those who obtained the prospective
students personal information.