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The Boat  Participant

Hey there. O.P.

We are looking at putting a 2nd storey up on our existing 3x1 to accommodate my ageing Mother.
Said Mother has sold her house and will be paying for the build.

She wants a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom, kithenette opeing up to a large living area as well as a sizeable
balcony.

We have received quotes from all of the big builders that range from $280k – $350k.

I think I can do it cheaper by project managing the build and employing trades separately.

Am I deluded? Does anyone have experience building an additional storey?

ref: whrl.pl/RdQ1Ic posted 2014­Feb­11, 12:21 pm AEST

paulm1au  Whirlpool Forums Addict

The Boat writes...

Am I deluded?

Maybe :) Do you have any building experience at all?

ref: whrl.pl/RdQ1I4 posted 2014­Feb­11, 12:24 pm AEST

zivad  Whirlpool Forums Addict

The Boat writes...

I think I can do it cheaper by project managing the build and employing trades separately.

1. Building a second storey won't be cheap. Quotes of 280K+ are in the right ballpark. Do you have
room for a granny flat in the backyard instead?
2. You can't project manage it and do the build yourself unless you are a licensed builder.

ref: whrl.pl/RdQ1Jj posted 2014­Feb­11, 12:25 pm AEST

Honey Badger  Whirlpool Forums Addict

The Boat writes...

Am I deluded?

Possibly – its not a matter of just building up. You need to engineer the existing house to be able to
take the weight of an extra story. You can probably do it cheaper – but without the experience and
know-how I doubt you will get too far as you will be paying retail prices for all the trades and services
that you require

Also you would be required to do an owner-builder course and warrantee the house for 7 years

ref: whrl.pl/RdQ1JF posted 2014­Feb­11, 12:27 pm AEST

. You are dreaming if you think this can be achieved by yourself even with some knowledge. 12:45 pm AEST (edited 2014­Feb­11. We used colour bond and tin roof 2nd storey after talking to the builder and seeking engineering advice.pl/RdQ1Rx posted 2014­Feb­11. Am I deluded? Does anyone have experience building an additional storey? First of all you asked – yes you are deluded If you have no idea then stay away unless you have deeeeeep pockets This is hard and in the end a bad strategy – most of all because if she is hold stairs will be an issue Not knowing what is behind all this (trying to help you financially etc) adding a second storey will likely not add much value First option is if you have no room to build and extension out back (granny flat even if detached) then to sell up. two houses if done right in one home. where will you live during the renovations? adding another level is quite disruptive and you'll have to be out of there for a good while.. 1:05 pm AEST wakers  Whirlpool Enthusiast Interesting discussion. also. I would certainly consider this method of extension. family.pl/RdQ1Oj pm AEST) mholmes  Whirlpool Enthusiast also.Beermonster  Forum Regular Hey OP. Two independant living areas. have you considered how much value the addition of a 2nd storey will add as opposed to selling your house and buying somewhere else that has a granny flat? Or just buying land and building from scratch? Thinking long term... . 12:58 pm AEST James77  In the penalty box The Boat writes.The weight difference between clay tiles and jarrah was similar to the new extension causing no problems to the current structure.. I think a house with a separate granny flat may have more appeal than a two storey house with separate amenities posted 2014­Feb­11. your own work load responsibilities. is having the ageing person on the upper floor wise? most granny flats are on the bottom level for good reason. We removed the tiles and jarrah frame from our 3x1 1971 Brick and Tile home in a very nice street and area. Think scaffold. timelines.pl/RdQ1Vm posted 2014­Feb­11. 1:00 ref: whrl. pool resources and find a suitable home/land This is too hard with too many issues unless you really do have the perfect home on the perfect street ref: whrl. ref: whrl.

kitchen.. Mobility wont be an issue either.. Trades included. Am I right in thinking your mother will live on the ground floor and yourselves above? Our family of four lived within the lower floor whilst the roof and construction was live. we dont think this is an issue. sparky etc with me project managing the build ref: whrl.May I suggest getting upon the roof and orientate your living space to any potential view. Will save you money. another living room and an outdoor area? The issue is over capitalising. the stairs will have one of those electric chair things.P. 1:58 pm AEST The Boat  Participant Interesting advice.I am not looking to build it myself.P.pl/RdQ18K posted 2014­Feb­11.pl/RdQ2cV posted 2014­Feb­11. You wont have contacts. paving etc. I am tossing up between getting http://nxprojects. Your unlikely to save a lot of money. ref: whrl.pl/RdQ19y posted 2014­Feb­11. However. but you really should talk to a Building Surveyor / council in your local area to find out the legalities. How can you not add value when you are adding an extra 2 bedrooms. Yes it was disruptive but can be done. 2:18 pm AEST wakers  Whirlpool Enthusiast Adding to my earlier post as I was in a rush at the time. stairwell.au/ guys to do everything or getting in a separate builder. I will add that our budget is 300k. O. In saying that. 2:04 pm AEST justanotheritguy  Whirlpool Enthusiast Laws vary from state to state. electrical. O. if any on the lower quote as trades will charge you more. sunlight wind etc that may benefit or hinder your outlook. a bathroom. another kitchen. well that is just absurd. It could take a year or more. We agreed with the builder to build to a clearly defined Lock Up stage. materials will cost you more. As for not adding value. how old is your aging mother? Can she climb stairs in another year / 2 / 5 / 10 etc? I would agree with selling and buying a property to suit. This allowed us to bring in our own recommended trades to finish the works. That is a long time with a lot of your house unusable. Saving $50+k in the process. time and a whole heap of distruptions in your life.com. ref: whrl.pl/RdQ173 posted 2014­Feb­11. Saving in rent and the benifit of always being on site and available for the builder and his questions. . flooring. 2:00 pm AEST The Boat  Participant Just to clarify. you won't know what to look for so trades will dick you around etc etc. You could potentially manage it as an Owner builder. decking. plumber. ref: whrl. especially if you self manage the build. Tiling.

A good solicitor can really help make sure everyone is protected. Approx base rate of lock up $1500 per square mtr. or requires a nursing home for specialised care? How do you buy her out? It may also form part of her estate. This can be very expensive to achieve. or you sell the entire property. water & gas.pl/RdQ2xP posted 2014­Feb­11. A granny flat separate from the existing house will reduce the effort required to achieve the same outcome. You will also need to consider dual metering for power. Stepping away from the actual build. Builders and tradies always prefer building something from scratch compared to working with old houses. There seem to be fewer and fewer 2nd story additions being added in Perth from what I have seen. solicitor... 3:40 pm AEST Country  Forum Regular Be aware that in most cases a dual occupancy build will require full fire separation between the two 'units'.pl/RdQ2yK posted 2014­Feb­11. ref: whrl. but building a 2nd story will always be a lot more expensive than building an addition at the same level or a separate granny flat. FWIW we are adding ~130sqm in a second story. and price accordingly... so if she should pass away and you have other siblings. I think it has been covered. .Trades are always willing to negotiate and are flexible if time is spent in the research of a good tradesman.. Anyways – not for me but that's your own preference and you will pay a premium for it PM's make sense though and will save you a lot time and energy ref: whrl. and ensure you have adequate time to resolve the financials should anything happen.pl/RdQ2Cp posted 2014­Feb­11. 3:45 pm AEST James77  In the penalty box stupid forum logged me out – anyway – main point is subbies are hard to manage at times and will point fingers -[ get a pm to hire and organise them – it will save finger pointing if something goes wrong and you can agree a timeline and what will happen if it goes over If you are hell bent on going up its your choice – I understand about the chair but trust me – stairs are a bloody pain with old people and you cannot predict the future and how she will end up. etc). ref: whrl. not including council fees.. plans... have you also considered the financial and legal impact of undertaking this renovation? What if your mother decides she wants out of the house in 5 years time. they could demand her portion be bought out. 4:01 pm AEST landyben  Forum Regular Some comments which may or may not be useful. and estimate it will cost ~$2250/SQM (~$300K est build cost. I'm currently going through the same process (although I'm the one moving in with my parents-in-law) and we have had to spend a lot of time ensuring the financials are protected before committing to the build.

There seem to be fewer and fewer 2nd story additions being added in Perth from what I have seen. the difference between a vacant block or block with 1950's unrennovated shack and a nice 2 story house is only about $300k! I know builders/developers who bring all their tradies in from interstate (e.. The laws around owner building in most Perth council areas seem a bit easier than in other states. ref: whrl. ref: whrl.. 5:15 pm AEST The Boat  Participant I may have been a touch unkind to my Mother.pl/RdQ2FV posted 2014­Feb­11. we will still get legal advice. then hand over to a builder.... Builders and tradies always prefer building something from scratch compared to working with old houses. However. 5:01 pm AEST James77  In the penalty box He has already mentioned he will get a moterised lift ref: whrl. This is an option to consider if you go down the owner builder route. and price accordingly.pl/RdQ2RD posted 2014­Feb­11. Said Mother has sold her house and will be paying for the build. It might be worth looking into any potential savings for you to get the plans drawn up and approved. 4:17 pm AEST Tunafish  Whirlpool Enthusiast The Boat writes. . We are looking at putting a 2nd storey up on our existing 3x1 to accommodate my ageing Mother.pl/RdQ2OO posted 2014­Feb­11. I think it has been covered. I think a lot of guys simply don't have the experience or knowledge and modern homes are slapped together so need lots of work to build up Builders want easy money with no hassles – they will take on these jobs but charge lots – as they need to get advice themselves Most will demolish and rebuild or grow out or even raise and build underneath but second stories are simply hard work – Australians don't like hard work. She is currently 60 and extremely mobile...g. but building a 2nd story will always be a lot more expensive than building an addition at the same level or a separate granny flat. O.pl/RdQ2E2 posted 2014­Feb­11. You will be wanting to add a large stair case with motor chair rails cos i dont see any ageing lady being able to deal with stair for ever. ref: whrl.P.How much do you think your place is worth compared to something already built in the same area which would be suitable? In our area. Finance should not be an issue as she is essentially gifting us $300k. as it works out cheaper than paying the rates expected by local contractors. 4:13 pm AEST James77  In the penalty box landyben writes.. Melbourne). sign a contract and create action plans for every scenario. A lot of the headache (and therefore expense) is getting the plans through council.

 10:27 pm AEST landyben  Forum Regular James77 writes.pl/RdQ3b3 posted 2014­Feb­11... .pl/RdQ2Yi posted 2014­Feb­11... Anything that isn't a new double brick house and the price goes up.. . 1:52 am AEST landyben  Forum Regular ILLaViTaR writes. Perth is worse still... We have received quotes from all of the big builders that range from $280k – $350k.....pl/RdQ3Xl posted 2014­Feb­11.Has anyone got any builders they could recommend in Perth? ref: whrl. I think a lot of guys simply don't have the experience or knowledge and modern homes are slapped together so need lots of work to build up Builders want easy money with no hassles – they will take on these jobs but charge lots – as they need to get advice themselves Most will demolish and rebuild or grow out or even raise and build underneath but second stories are simply hard work – Australians don't like hard work. Can't you apply to be an owner/builder? Only costs around $80 and it allows you to build your entire house from the foundations if you want to.pl/RdQ4bp posted 2014­Feb­12.pl/RdQ4aZ posted 2014­Feb­12. You could do a full demo and rebuild of a double storey (ben trager/101 residential) for that price. Can't you apply to be an owner/builder? Only costs around $80 and it allows you to build your entire house from the foundations if you want to... ref: whrl. Some friends (an architect and and an engineer) were building a house using aerated concrete bricks. All the tradies quoted 50-100% over normal price and cited the bricks as the reason. AFAIK laws vary state to state. ref: whrl. Exactly – that is what I was trying to get across. 6:48 pm AEST The Hobo  Whirlpool Forums Addict The Boat writes. You can't do the build yourself unless you are a licensed builder. 5:41 pm AEST wakers  Whirlpool Enthusiast PM Sent ref: whrl.. 1:34 am AEST The Private Sector  In the penalty box zivad writes. In WA you just need to pay a levy (~$42 last I paid it) to be registered. ref: whrl...

$280k – $350k ouch. Sure. but. it only took my moher 5yrs from there to be unfit and falling down stairs..Who needs two kitchens in the one house? To me its double the number of appliances that can go wrong. Land is about 300sm. well that is just absurd. Keep in mind the disruption to your existing house..The "accessible" room is upstairs..pl/RdQ4c5 posted 2014­Feb­12.. house is about 10-13 Squares. but not unexpected. what will you do when ¾ of your roof is off. ref: whrl. another kitchen.000 more.. As for not adding value. How can you not add value when you are adding an extra 2 bedrooms.. that is costly.pl/RdQ4dO posted 2014­Feb­12. a bathroom. I have no idea about WA. and I guess you have already looked. 3:22 am AEST McMAnsion  Whirlpool Enthusiast The Boat writes. You will probably add value.. a bathroom. It doesn't make sense – the accessible room should be downstairs. I enjoy watching the Lifestyle channel on foxtel – Grand Designs in particular. the houses usually come out looking pretty great – after 2 years of hell :) The self-PM generally looks like a very haggered semblance of the person who started the build. 5:58 am AEST mattwillfixit  Whirlpool Forums Addict The Boat writes. As for not adding value. well that is just absurd. another living room and an outdoor area? Its not absurd. but probably will not add as much value as you spend upgrading.. some of the walls are down while they retrofit the house to support the second story? Am I deluded? mostly yes. Have you priced up one of those lifts? They cost $20k+ and need servicing. The issues I see are .. ref: whrl. Adding a second story where it was never intended is difficult and intensive. It is possible around here to get a nice new small house +land for ~$200k. double the cleaning etc . 4:55 am AEST Blaman®  Whirlpool Forums Addict The Boat writes. Once you have one in your home. You may very well not see your $300k spend back. another kitchen. another living room and an outdoor area? Its not absurd at all.. How can you not add value when you are adding an extra 2 bedrooms.pl/RdQ4fw posted 2014­Feb­12. The amount of people on the show who PM the build themselves and have an utterly miserable time of it is huge. Eg the house may be worth $150. in my area for the price you are talking there is no way I would build an extra story. . its now considered an old persons home and will further limit its marketability.000 more.. The features you are adding may not be desirable to the majority of future potential buyers in the event you sell your property. but you have spent $300.I believe in some states you need to do a (tafe?) course??? ref: whrl. How many people are in the market for a house with two kitchens and 5 bedrooms? I know you said your mother was 60 and fit.

ref: whrl. Once house I heard of had stairs outside.If it were me I would sell both houses (your mums and yours) and buy one that meets your criteria.pl/RdQ550 posted 2014­Feb­12. 4:37 pm AEST .pl/RdQ6w6 posted 2014­Feb­12. so the occupants had to done raincoats in bad weather. Don't laugh. ref: whrl. 2:46 pm AEST Katana Geldar  Whirlpool Enthusiast Don't forget to include stairs. it has happened.

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