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AEPRODUEED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES NO. 00~00-24467~cR 7/8Y¥5 ‘THE STATE OF TEXAS * IN THE 137H JUDICIAL DISTRICT vs. * oF CAMERON TODD WILLINGHAM * NAVARRO COUNTY, TEXAS STATEMENT OF FACTS vouume xxv of /6 volumes TRIAL ON THE MERITS (AFTERNOON OF THIRD DAY) PUNISHMENT PHASE EVIDENCE APPEARANCES: ORIGINAL Mr. John H. Jackson and Mr. Alan J. Bristol First Assistant District Attorney Assistant District Attorney Navarro County, Texas Navarro County, Texas 300 W. Third Avenue, 2nd Floor 300 W. Third Ave., 2nd Flr. Corsicana, Texas 75110 Corsicana, Texas 75110 For the State of Texas; Mr. David H. Martin Mr. Robert C. Dunn Attorney at Law and Attorney at Law DAWSON, SODD, MOE & MARTIN 115 W. Collin street 800 Ferris Avenue, Suite 200 Corsicana, Texas: 75110 Waxahachie, Texas 75165 For the Defendant. On the 20th day of August, 1992, the above and entitled cause came on to be heard for trial in the said Court, Honorable Kenneth A. "Buck" Douglas, Judge Presiding, and the following proceedings were had, to wit: FILED IN guns ne coma APPEALS yoy 23 1992 clerk Thwinas Lowes Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, i3th District court aan kae SS UTE SS Ee REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES INDEX CAPTION PAGE- Maria Tassie Malowney. 60 STATE'S EVIDENCE CONTINUED: John Henry Bailey 66 Don Sullivan 69 Tim Gregory 72 79 81 83 85 (vD75) DIRECT (Resumed) 78 Patrick C. Batchelor 37 James Grigson 90 94 97 STATE RESTS IN PUNISHMENT PHASE-- ANNOUNCEMENTS OF READY MADE- 2 STATE'S EVIDENCE IN PUNISHMENT PHASE WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC Stacy Willingham 3 6 13 20 aa Karen King 22 Kimberly Lynn King 26 29 3a 32 33 Randy Petty 34 35 36 37 Jimmy Hensley 38 Ted Montgomery 40 41 41 42 4300 4a MPRDAS Larry Denison 46 47 Richard Schlaudroft 48 Maria Tassie Malowney 50(VD57)58 CROSS RESUMED63 DEFENSE'S BILL OF EXCEPTION: WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR_R-D FUR-RC WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC 98 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES of INDE X CONTINUED DEFENSE'S EVIDENCE IN PUNISHMENT PHASE: WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC Gene Willingham 99 108 Bugena Willingham 109114 Colisa Porter 115 119 Yvette Crozier 120 123 Christina Brownl25 127 Ted Brown 129° 132 132 133 Sherrie Cooley 134 136 138 Mike Cooley 139 141 142 143 Monte Willingham 1430145 146 Carla Petty 147 149 Christopher Alan Brown 152154 Linda Brown 155 157 Cindy Preston 159 161 162 162 165 Gerald Preston 166 168 Betty Mason 170 = 172 Doug Mason 176 «178 Patricia Goodeniso 184 185 186 Stacy (recalled) Willingham 187 190 193 196 198 199 DEFENSE CALLS ON CAMERON TODD WILLINGHAM TO TESTIFY WITHOUT THE JURY: 204 DEFENSE WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC Stacy Willingham 205 (resumed) MER-C206 DEFENSE RESTS: 206 STATE CLOSES- - 207 PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED ON EARLY EVENING OF AUGUST 20,1992, TO RESUME ON AUGUST 21. - 208 - 209 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE: 4a Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES IND B X CONTINUED WITNESSES IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER WITNESS DIRECT CROSS IRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC Bailey, John 66 Batchelor, 87 Patrick C. Henry Brown, 1250127 Christina Brown, 1s2 154 Christopher Alan Brown, Linda 155 187 Brown, Ted 1290131 132 133 Cooley, Mike 139 141 142 143 Cooley, Sherrie 134 136 138 Crozier, Yvette 120 123 Denison, Larry 46 47 — Gooden, 1800-184 185 186 Patricia Gregory, Tim 72 79 a1 83 85 (vD75) DIRECT (Resumed) 78 Grigson, James 90 94 97 Hensley, Jimmy 38 King, Karen 22 King, Kimberly 26 29 31 32 33 Lynn Malowney, Maria 50(VD57)58 CROSS RESUMED63 Tassie Mason, Betty 170 172 Mason, Doug 176 178 Montgomery, Ted 40 41 a1 42 4348 MPRDA5 Petty, Carla 147149 Petty, Randy 34 35 36 37 Porter, Colisa 115 119 Preston, Cindy 159 161 161 162 165 Preston, 166 168 Gerald Schlaudroff, 48 Richard Sullivan, Don 69 Willingham, Cameron Todd 201 Willingham, 109114 Bugena Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. a IN DB X CONTINUED WITNESSES IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER (CONTINUED) : WITNESS DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS FUR R-D FUR-RC Willingham, 99 108 Gene Willingham, 14300145 146 Monte Willingham, 3 6 13 20 aa Stacy Willingham, 187 190 193 196 198 «= 199 Stacy (recalled) 205 (resumed) More Fur-RC 206 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS arive ARES ee IN DE X CONTINUED DOCUMENTARY BVIDENCE EXHIBIT DE- IDENTI- F- NuM- SCRIP- MARKED FIED FERED REC'D SHOWN BER ‘TION SX-21, Photos,Hooded skull 83 82 w/Wings&Hatchet&Cobra SX-22, Photo, Skeleton a1 w/Sword SX-59, Photo of Tatoo 17 18 18 of Skull on Def. SX-60, Photo of Tron 18 18 a2 Maiden Poster SX-61, Pen Packet 56 87 57 58 of/obj. 71 #154039 CRF-86-463 SX-62, Fingerprint Cd 70 70 m1 72 70 #016344 8/20/92 SK-63, Judgment of 87 88 89 89 87 Conviction #91-00-24240-CR DX-11, Photo,3 Girls 6 6 6 6 6 Stacy & Todd DX-12, Photo, Twins 6 7 7 7 7 & Todd DX-13, Photo, Amber 6 7 7 8 7 & Toad DX-14, Photo, Twins, 6 8 8 8 a at Birth w/Todd DX-15, Photo, Twins 6 8 9 9 a DX-16, Photo,3 Girls 6 8 9 9 a DX-17, Photo, Amber 6 9 9 9 9 & Todd at Zoo DX-18, Photo,3 Girls 6 a 9 9 8 DK-19, Photo, Amber 6 9 9 9 9 & Todd at Zoo DX-20, Photo, Amber 6 9 9 9 9 & Todd at Zoo DX-21, Photo, Amber 6 9 10 10 9 2 yrs. old DX-22, Photo, Amber 6 10 10 10 10 & Todd, 4+mos. DX-23, Photo, Amber 6 10 10 10 10 & Toad Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court EXHIBIT DE- uM: SCRIP- MARKED BER TION Photo, Amber 6 after Twins Birth DX-25, Photo,Twins & 6 Amber(in Bkgrnd) DX-26, Photo, Twin 6 at Birth & Toad DX-27, Photo, Todd 6 w/Niece & Nephew DX-28, Photo,3 Girls 6 8 mos. & 2 yr: DX-29, Photo of 194 Caskets & Stacy a a aa a 10 10 9 10 9 10 195 195 ~vi- 10 10 10 198 10 10 195 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PUNISHMENT PHASE OF JURY TRIAL THE COURT: Okay, the jury panel is back in place. Is the State ready to proceed? MR. JACKSON: Yes, Your Honor. ‘THE COURT: Is the defendant ready to proceed? MR. DUNN: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay; call your first witness, Mr. -- is the defendant ready to proceed? MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir. ‘THE COURT: Call your first witness. MR. JACKSON: ‘The State calls Stacy Willinghan. I'd like to identify this as a hostile witness, Your Honor; and she's under subpoena and subject to attachment. THE COURT: She's here. Take your seat there in the witness chair. Mrs. Willingham, you were sworn the other day; were you not? MRS. WILLINGHAM: (Nodded affirmatively.) THE COURT: Okay. You may proceed, Mr. Jackson. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 STACY WILLINGHAM was called as a hostile witness by the State; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and being reminded of said oath by the Court, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. State your name for the record, please, ma’an. A. Stacy June Willingham. @. Who is your husband? A. Cameron Todd Willingham. Q. Is that the same person who's present in this courtroom, the defendant in this capital murder case? A. Yes. Q. How long have you been married to Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Since October the 1st of 1991. Q. So you were married some two months before the children were killed; is that right? A. Yes. Q. Mrs. Willingham, Todd Cameron Willingham has been violent and abusive to you from the first time you met; is that correct? AL No. Q. Isn't it a fact, Mrs. Willingham, that Todd Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Willingham tried to kill your babies, even before they were born? A. No. Isn't it a fact, Mrs. Willingham, that he beat you on @ regular basis at your house on 11th Avenue, on a regular basis. A. No; he did not. Q. Is it not a fact that you sought help at neighbors’ houses, and particularly the house of John Bailey, saying that Mr. Willingham had threatened you and the children and you wanted to call the police from his house? A. No; I went to John Bailey's one time because Todd wa: ve and he in the yard, arguing, and I wanted him to 1 wouldn't leave, and so I went to John Bailey's to call the cops, because-- Q. On that same occasion, were you present when Todd Willingham, your husband, threatened to kill several people? A. That day there? Q. At any time, ma'am. A. No; T wasn't. Q. That never happened? A. Todd has never treatened to kill anybody, in front of me. Q. Well, whe -- who'd he threatened to kill, not in front of you, then? Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court “REPRODUCED FROM ri HoiBe SEF TEXAS STATE ARCHIV 10 aa a2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 Pei MT ue Seago A. No one. He's never said anything like that. Q. Isn't it a fact that the children, Amber in particular, was afraid of your husband-~ No-- --Cameron Todd Willingham? A. --no. Q. You're aware that your husband has tried to blame these events on your children; is that -- do you understand that? A. I understand that, but I -- I heard the statement the guy wrote. Q. | You understand your husband is guilty of killing your children; do you not, Mrs. Willingham? A. TI understand that's what everyone thinks. Q. But you don't think that; do you? A. No; I don't. Q- Can you tell us why you have suffered these years of abuse at his hands and not protected yourself or the children? A. TT have not suffered abuse from him and not -- there was nothing-wrongrwith my kids, either. He's never hurt those kids. Q. Well, are you the one who hurt the kids? A. No; I am not. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court eee ays nt sa ee TES SU ONS Siar “wrnkee Me: ‘REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIV: (Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 11-29, photographs, were marked for indentification.) CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Mrs. Willingham, TI want to show you a series of pictures. If you would, please, ma'am, let me identify the exhibit number and you tell if this picture accurately depicts what it is. That is Exhibit No. 11. Is that a accurate depiction of you, your children and Todd Willinghan? Yes. Yes. MR. JACKSON: No objection. THE COURT: It's admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 11 was offered into evidence and admitted without objection.) Q. Defendant's Exhibit No. 11, when was that taken, Mrs. Willingham? A. A week before this happened. Q. All right. And where was it taken? A. ReMart. Q. Where, now? MR. MARTIN: May we, Judge? THE COURT: Sure. (Handed witness tissue.) A. At K-Mart. Q. Mrs. Willingham, who suggested that this family Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED. THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. f 14 1 | portrait be taken? { ™~) a A. Me and Todd decided on taking them because we was * 3 | going to give pictures of the family for Christmas presents. , 4 Q. I show you Defendant's Exhibit No. 12, Mrs. 5 | Willingham. Does that accurately depict Todd and one of the 6 children? 7 AL Yes. Ye 8 Q. Or both children. Who are.-~ who are those children? 9 A. Who -- Karmon and Kameron. | 10 Q. All right; the twins? n A. (Nodded affirmatively.) a2 Q. About what age were they there? 13 A. They were -- they were a week and a half old there. ) 14 MR. JACKSON: No objection. 45 THE COURT: It's admitted. 16 (Defendant's Exhibit No. 12, a photograph of twins and Todd, was offered and admitted 7 into evidence without objection.) } 18 Q. Mrs. Willingham, let me show you Defendant's Exhibit 19 | No. 13. What, if anything, is that? 20 AL What? a1 Q. What is that? 2a A. Amber and Todd. 23 Q. All right; and does that picture accurately depict _ 24 those persons in the backyard of your house on 11th? | 25 A. Yes. 7 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 15 10 un 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 a4 25 SEPROOUGED FROM TH HOLDINGS. OF thie TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES MR. JACKSON: No objection. ‘THE COURT: It's admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 13, a photograph of Amber and Todd, was offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) Q. And let me show you Defendant's 14. what, if anything, is that? A. This is the day I had the twins. Q. And is it taken at the hospital? AL Yes. Q. That accurately depicts what it is designed to depict, the day of the twins’ birth and Toad? AL Yes. MR. JACKSON: No objection. THE COURT: It's admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 14, a photograph of the twins and Todd, was offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) MR. DUNN: I offer 14, Your Honor. Q- I show you a group, Defendant's 16 -- 15, 16 and 18, Mrs. Willingham. What, if anything, are those pictures? A. Do what? @. What are those pictures of? A. Of our kids. Q. All right. are they of all three children? AL Yes. Q. Do they accurately depict that of the twins and then Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court. ANI REPROOUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 26 25 all three children in the other two pictures? AL Yes. MR. JACKSON: TI have no objection to those photographs. THE COURT: They're admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 15, 16 and 18, photographs of three children, were offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) Q. Mrs. Willingham, T want to show you a series of three other pictures--Defendant's 17, 19 and 20--what, if anything, are those? A. They're when me and Todd took Amber to the zoo. Q. All right. Are those pictures of Todd and Amber? AL Yes. Q. And I assume you took those pictures? A. Yes. MR. JACKSON: No objection. THE COURT: They're admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 17, 19 and 20, photographs of parents and Amber and Todd and Amber, were offered and admitted into avidence without objection.) Q. Mrs. Willingham, I want to show you Defendant's Exhibit 21, 27 and 28. What are those? A. ‘They're mine and Todd's kids and a picture of him and my niece and nephew. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 indi ARCHIVES. MR. JACKSON: No objections. THE COURP: ‘They're-— MR. DUNN: I offer these. THE COURT: --they're admitted. (Defendant Exhibit Nos. 21, 27 and 28, photographs of parents and subject children and of Todd and niece and nephew, were offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) Q. Now I show you Defendant's Exhibit 26, 23 and 22. What, if anything, are those? A. A picture of Todd with the twins and -- and Amber. Q. And is that -~ are -- are those pictures when the children were small, in each situation? A. It's when Amber was a baby, and then right after the twins were born. MR. JACKSON: No’ objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: They're admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 22, 23 and 26, photographs of the twins and Todd and Amber, were offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) Q. Mrs. Willingham, I want to show you Defendant's Exhibit No. 25. Is that a picture of the twins? A. Yes. Q. When was that taken? A. A week before this happened. 10 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court. 15 1 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q anything, a. AL Honor. Q REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS-OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES I show you Defendant's Exhibit No. 24. what, if is that? A picture of Amber. And when was that taken? Right after the twins were born. MR. JACKSON: No objection. MR. DUNN: We would offer No. 24 and 5, Your Mrs. Willingham, you were the persoh—whe: worked in THE COURT: They're admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 24, photograph of Amber, and No. 25, photograph of twins, were offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) the family, is that right, at the time that all of this And where were you working? At Some Other Place in Angus. That is a bar that was owned by your brother; is that happened? A. Yes. 2. aL Q. right? A. Yes. Q. ana, children? A. Yes. Q. Mrs. Mrs. Willingham, Todd stayed home with the Willingham, at any time, did you ever see or an Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 notice or feel that Todd had neglected or abused these children? A. No. Q. You understand what this jury's verdict is in this A. Yes. Q. They have to make a determination about whether Todd Willingham would commit further acts of violence and be a continuing threat to society. Do you think he would? A. No. Q. Mrs. Willingham, the references to abuse of yourself that Mr. Jackson has made, would you like to explain those to the jury? A. Yes. Q. All right; would you tell them what your thoughts are about that and what your recollections are? A. Me and Todd argued, just like anybody else. Sometimes we did have fights, but Todd got more bruises and stuff than I did. I'm not saying we didn't have fights; we 4ia; but he did get more bruises sometimes than T did. Q. Mrs. Willingham, if you thought this man killed your children, could you say that he wouldn't commit further acts of violence? A. Tf I thought he did, T wouldn't -- I would say that -~ I wouldn't say that. 12 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court * REPRE RUCED ered Tre nekBids OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 1 Q. Are you asking this jury to spare his life? 2 A. Yes. 3 Are you asking them to answer the second issue "Yes," 4 that he would be entitled and there is mitigating evidence to 5 support a life sentence? 6 AL Yes. 1 MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. 8 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. JACKSON: 10 Q. Let me ask you, Mrs. Willingham: How can you stand 1 by the man that burned up your three children? 12 A. Because I don't believe that. 13 Q. You wouldn't believe it under any circumstances; 14 would you? 15 A. No; but I would believe it if Todd told me that he 16 aid that. 17 Q. You wouldn't believe it if he told somebody else; _ te would you? 19 A. Not no one in jail, no. 20 Q. How long have you known Todd? aa A. Four and a half years. 22 Q. Have you heard that, in Carter County, Oklahoma, he 23 was arrested in 1986, for assault with a deadly weapon and 24 carrying a concealed weapon? 25, A. No. 13 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 16 ee Go a Seine” REPRODUCED FROW THE HOLBNES GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 a2 23 24 25 @. Have you heard that, in May of ‘86, he was arr for burglary? A. Of what? Q. I'm asking you, ma‘an. AL No. @. Have you heard that, in September of '86, he was arrested for six counts of auto burglary? A. I heard -- some of them, I heard that he was accused of, but -- not arrested on some of them, or-~ Q. Have you heard that, in November of ‘86, he was -- and also, in January of '87, he was arrested for two cases of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by selling paint to a minor? I'm not sure. I don't remember a lot right now. Q. Have you heard that, in April of ‘87, he was arrested in Oklahoma for grand larceny? gust "yes" or “no” would be sufficient, ma‘an. No. Have you heard that, in July of '87, he was. arrested for possession of stolen property and theft of a motorcycle? Yes. Q. Have you heard that in September of ‘88, he was arrested for driving under the influence of intoxicants or drugs? I heard he was arrested for being drunk. 14 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Q. Have you heard that, in February of '89, he was arrested for theft from a retail merchant in Carter County, Oklahoma? Do what? Q. Have you heard that, in February of 1989, he was arrested for theft from a retail merchant? A. Yes. Q. Have you heard that, in June of 1991, he was arrested for burglary of a vehicle here in Corsicana, Texas? A. Yes. Q. Have you heard that, in July of '90 -- 1991, he was arrested for terroristic threat in an incident where he attempted to run a person named Stacy Wilkerson off the road in a vehicle? A. I -- I heard about it; yes, but-- Q. Who is Stacy Wilkerson? A. It's William -- well, it's my uncle's wife now. Q. Okay. Have you heard -~ of course, I think you've denied this -- that, in August of ‘91, that the police were called to your house to control a situation where Cameron Todd Willingham was in the yard calling you a, quote, “Whore, a bitch and a slut"? A. I didn't deny that; T said he was in my yard, arguing. Q. Have you heard that, on the 12th day of July of '91, 15 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPRDOUCED PRON Tht NOLBINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 he threatened to kill William Kuykendall, stating, "I'll kill you; I'll blow you away;" and he also threatened to kill chris Ruykendall on that same date? A. I heard about it; yes. Q. You weren't there? A. I was -~ what date -- on what day was -- I mean: Q. That was in mid-July of last year. A. I know, one time when we had stopped by in my uncle's house, that William ~~ William had come out and got in an argument with Todd and I was listening to what they were said -- what they were saying, but I don't remember what day it was. I know it was in Summertine. Q. Have you heard of two incidents in 1988, one in August and one a preceding occasion in February, where he was arrested for theft and resisting arrest in Cooke County, Texas? A. Yes. Q. But T assume that your attitude toward him remains the same, that, certainly, he's not the kind of guy who would do anything like this? A. No; I don't think he is. Q. Have you collected the insurance that was payable based on the babies' death? A. Yes. Q. And what have you done with that money? 16 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED PROM THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES A. Well, I've paid-- MR. DUNN: Object to relevance, Your Honor, to this defendant. MR. JACKSON: 1I'11 withdraw the question. MR. DUNN: We ask the jury to disregard, Your Honor. May we have an instruction such as that? THE COURT: The jury panel is so-instructed to disregard. Q. You denied that you ever MR. DUNN: Pardon me. I almost forgot; I wasn't listening. We'd ask for a Mistrial based on that. THE COURT: That request is denied. Q. Stacy, you deny that you ever told Karen King or Kim King that Cameron Todd Willingham beat you during your pregnancy, in an attempt to cause a miscarriage of the children? A. I never told them that. Q. Okay; if they said that, that would be a 1 guess? A. I'm just saying I never said that. (State's Exhibit Nos. 59 and 60, photographs, were marked for identification.) Q. I show you a picture of State's Exhibit 59. Can you identify the person in that photograph? 17 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Todd. a skull, encircled by some kind of a serpent on his left shoulder. Can you tell us what the significance of that tattoo is? A. What do you mean? Q. What does it mean? A. I don't know; it just -- it's just a tattoo. And it -- there's, apparently, a very large tattoo of @. He just likes skulls and snakes; is that what you're saying? A. No; he just had -- he got a tattoo on him. Q. The other shoulder shows a tattoo of what appears to be tombstones with initials or people's name on them? Can you tell us the significance of those? A. It's just a tattoo. I don't think it has any names on it? Q. He ever talked to him about any of those? A. No; he just -- no. Q. Did you ever wonder about anything like that? A. No? Toda just liked tattoos, and he had tattoos put on his arm. Q. I'll show you what's been marked State's Exhibit No. 60, which is, apparently, a poster. Can you identify this photograph? A. Yes. It's our back room. 18 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court SORE PO Ye cai 6 Fld PEAS SATE ARCTES 10 1a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 And is this consistent with the kind of decorations had in your house on 11th Avenue? No; not all of them. ‘That was the dart room. Q. Is this Todd's poster or your poster? A. Those were Todd's. Q. The top of it says, "Can I play with madness?" do: it not? A. Yes; it doe Q. And it is, apparently, a poster of some supernatural being, with a fist being driven through its head and the brains coming out the other side; is it not? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us why you helped Todd switch his urine specimen at the hospital? A. I didn't do that. @. So if anybody says you did that, that would be just a lie; is that right? A. Yes; that would. Q. You've heard that Carl Jones testified to that extent? A. Yes. Q. And can you tell me why that he is telling a terrible lie like that? A. I don't -- I don't know why he would say something like that. 19 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 17 eran Want eee 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 - You and Todd's relationship has been extremely stormy over the past few years; has it not? A. What do you mean "stormy"? Q. Well, he's left home and gone out with other women and that sort of thing; I mean, that's a fair statement; is it not? A. He's -- he's left one time because he was seeing another girl. Q. And he brought that girl back to your house; did he not? A. No. Q. And there was some evidence of violence between you and her at that time; is that right? A. Yes. Q. All right. What did you do to her car? A. I scratched her c: Q. All right. When you split up once before, do you xemember Cameron Todd Willingham making the statement, "You take Amber and I'll take the VCR; that's a good trade"? AL No. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. Stacy, when did you learn about any insurance benefits as a result of the children's death? 20 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court a7 1 20 4a 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 a5 ‘REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Two days after the fire. ) Q. And who carried the insurance benefits on those children? J. D. Kuykendall. Who is that person? My dad. Q. Did Todd Willingham know anything about that insurance coverage or the benefits? A. No; I didn't even know. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. You've told us you don't know about a lot of things afternoon; haven't you, Stacy? A. T guess. MR. JACKSON: I have no further questions. MR. DUNN: We have nothing else, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Is she finally-excused? MR. DUNN: May she stay in the courtroom, Your Honor? THE COURT: Do you need her further, Mr. Jackson? MR. JACKSON: No; she -~ she can be finally-excused. THE COURT: You're excused. ar Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ee REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS-OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: Karen King. THE COURT: Come forward, please, ma‘am. Take your seat here in the witness chair. Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. You may proceed. KAREN KING was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSO! Q. Would you state your name, please, ma'an? A. Raren Ring. Q. And where do you live, Mrs. King? A. I live at Gainesville, Texas. Q. How long have you lived in Gainesville? A. ‘Thirty-nine years. Q. Are you acquainted with a person that used to be known as Stacy Kuykendall, now known as Stacy Willingham? A. Yes; I am. Q. Can you tell us how you became familiar with her? A. - We lived down the road from each other, I guess, when nesville, when, I guess, Stacy was the Kuykendalls moved to G: 22 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court SEPROUCED FROG THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 17 1 20 aa 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 around 11 or 12 years old. We became friends that way. And with whom was Stacy living at that time? A, Mildred and J. D. Kuykendall. Q. Okay. How were they related to Stacy? A. ‘They were Stacy's grandparents. Q. All right. That makes about how many years you've been acquainted with Stacy? A. Around 10. Q. You're aware that she is presently married to the defendant in this case, Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Yes. Q. Are you acquainted with Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Yes. Q. Are you acquainted with the relationship between Cameron Todd Willingham and his -- his wife -- his present wife, Stacy? A. Yes. Q. Would you characterize that relationship as an abusive relationship? A. Yes; I would. Q. Did Stacy Willingham ever make a statement to you with reference to assaults on her by this defendant while she was pregnant? A. Yes; she did. Q. Did she indicate to you that that was an attempt to 23 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court SEPRGRUEED FROM 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1s 20 a1 22 23 24 25 NGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES cause or create a miscarriage? A. Yes. MR. MARTIN: Your Honor, we object to that as leading and it's calling for a hearsay r ponse. THE COURT: 1 sustain the leading part. yk you that question, ma'am. Did she ever Let me r make any statement about beatings she received during pregnancies? Yes; she did. MR. MARTIN: I'11 object to that as leading. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. MR. MARTIN: We object to it as hearsay. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. Q. You-~ A. Yes; she did. Q. Did she indicate to you what she believed the purpose of those beatings to be? A. Yes; she believed the purpose was to have -- to make her to have a miscarriage. MR. MARTIN: We object again, also as hearsay and leading. Can we have continuing objection to questions to this witness asking what Stacy Willingham told her? THE COURT: That will be fine. I overrule the objection. You may answer the question. 24 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 18 REBROROCED PRION THE HOLDINGS OF Tie TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 She indicated to me that she felt like her husband had beat her up because she was pregnant with a baby. I don't think at that time she realized it was twins. And at that time they were not married, either. @. Did Stacy enjoy a close relationship with your daughters? A. Yes; she was very close to my daughters. Q. Did her relationship with the defendant create sone hard feelings in that, between then? A. Yes. Q. What was the reason for that? A. Todd Willingham was very jealous over the relationship that my daughters had with his: MR. MARTIN: We object to that as speculating-- A, ~-oldest daughter. MR. MARTIN: ‘timony outside the personal knowledge of this witness. THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection. Q. Did you ever have an opportunity to observe Stacy after one of these beatings? A. Yes. @. Can you describe her appearance? A. She had a busted lip and two black eyes. And she had bruises up and down her legs. And she had lots of red spots on her. She had a red spot on her stomach, where she had told 25 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED PROM THE WOLDINES OF THE IBS St STATE ARCHWES. 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me he had kicked MR. THE mr. Honor. THE call your mR. THE your right hand. THE chair. was called as a witness by the State; her. MARTIN: courr: JACKSON: MARTIN: court: next wit JACKSON: cour?: I object to that as hearsay. I overrule the objection. Pass the witness. No questions of this witness, Your You may step down. ness, Mr. Jackson. ‘The State calls Kim King. Come forward please, ma'am. Raise (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) court: Take your seat there in the witness KIMBERLY LYNN KING the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT BXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Will you state your name, please, ma‘an? A. Kimberly Lynn King. and being sworn to tell Q. Can you tell us where you live? A. Gainesville, Texas. Q. Are you acquainted with a person who used to be known 26 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ROOMCE | eet hhh nae dae unde PENS Ste ee REPROQUCED PRON THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES _ 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 as Stacy -- Stacy Kuykendall, now Stacy Willingham? Yes. Can you tell us how you came to be acquainted with her? A. We moved down the street from them. They’ lived in the Town East Division. @. When you say “they,” who are you referring to? A. Her and her brother Tracy, and her brother Tony and Mildred and J. D. Q. Okay. And when was this, ma‘an? A. Tt was when I was in the second grade. So it had to be almost, T don't know, 10 years ago. ‘THE COURT: Ms. King, would you pull that microphone around in front of you to where you can talk into the microphone? Q. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of Todd Willingham, the defendant in this case? AL Yes. Q. Were you aware that he had a relationship with your friend, Stacy, for a period of years? A. Yes. Q How would you characterize that relationship? A. Well, the first time that I ever met Todd was when their sister, Susie, died and we went up there at her house and told her; and that was the first time that I had ever met a7 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPROOUGED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hin. Were Stacy and Todd together for a long period of time, off and on, before they got married? Yes. Q. Would you characterize that relationship as abusive? AL Yes. MR. MARTIN: Object; leading. THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection. MR. MARTIN: Could we ask that the jury be instructed to disregard the witness's-- THE COURT: ‘The jury panel is so-instructed. MR. MARTIN: We request a Mistrial. THE COURT: Motion denied. Q. Are you aware of the incidence when Todd beat Stacy? A. Yes. Q. Are you aware of incidents when he beat her while she was pregnant? A. Yes. Q. Has she spoken to you about these incidents? AL Yes. Q. Did you talk to Stacy Kuykendall at a time when she and her boyfriend, Todd, were dividing up the property of their relationship before they separated? AL Yes. Q. Let me back up and ask you another question. Do you 28 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 RBPROQUGED Peau hit NektimGs OF the TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES remember -- do you remember a statement by -- made by Stacy Willingham in which she spoke about a -- a VCR? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us the substance of what she advised you about the VCR? MR. MARTIN: We object to that as hearsay. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. Q. You may answer. A. Well, it was right after her and Todd got in a fight, and she called us at my mom's house to go over and get her and Amber; and when we got there, Todd was gone and she said that Toda took the VCR and that he said it was an even trade for Amber; that he would take the VCR and she could have Amber and it was an even trade. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witne: GROSS _EKAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Ms. King, you're a senior in high school? No; I'm graduated. Q. And how long has it been since you have lived near Todd and stacy? A. A little over a year. Q. And you haven't been around them in the past year; have you? Yes. 29 Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Q. aA. Q. Very often? No. Ever been in their home? No. Ever been around them together? Yes When was that? Right after the fire. But not before? Yes; before the fire. You were around then before the fire? Uh-huh. How long before the fire? In November, I know I was around them. Were you down here to stay over at their home? No; they were down there to stay. In Gainesville? Uh-huh. You were friends? Uh-huh. Did they stay in your home? No; they stayed in my sister's. Did they come there just to see you? Well, they came to visit with our family. ‘They came down to 30 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 210 at 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 1s 20 aa 22 23 24 25 fire? Q. them? funeral; REPRODUCED: FROM THE HOUBIGS GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: Brought their kids? Uh-huh. Stayed in your sister's home? Uh-huh. You have to say "yes" or "no" so she can get it-- Yes. -von the record. And that was a month before the It was around in there. And then the -- after the fire you've been to see No; they came -- well, we came down here for the and then after the funeral, it was a little while after that, not even a month, and they came down and stayed with my sister. Q. What's your sister's name? A. Katrina King. Q. When you say "came down,” you mean went up to Gainesville? A. Yes. Q. Stayed in your sister's home? A. Correct. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Bde J. ‘Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 19 10 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 a3 24 25 Q. Did you have an opportunity to observe the kind of relationship that this defendant, Todd Willingham, had with his daughter amber? Yes. Q. What can you tell us about that relationship? A. Well, he just didn't act like a father; I mean, she -- she didn't want to go to him; and when she would fall or get hurt or something, I would go pick her up and cry —~ and she would cry and then he would come over and try to take her away and she didn't want to go to him, she would cry more. And he always blamed me. He said, “Well, you're the reason she's so spoiled and she doesn't mind anything." Q. Do you think he took good care of his children? A. No; he was never there. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Amber fell down one time; is that what you're telling us about? A. No; I mean, she would be in her room ~~ in the -~ over at our house, playing, and, you know, she would fall or something or she -- a little -- another little kid would take a toy away from her and she would cry, and I would go over there to pick her up and he would just blame it on me because she was spoiled and she wouldn't mind or anything. 32 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Q. And that's why you're saying he was a bad father? A. No; he never was around to be a father. Q. And you saw them one time a month before the fire and and then for a year prior to that you saw them at the funera time, you didn't see them? A. We saw them right after the funeral; they came down to Gainesville. Q. Yes, ma'am; but you saw them one time before the fire? A. Well-~ Q. And then the year previous to the fire? A. No; we saw them from -- I mean, they would come down or, you know, we would come down and see them. them or they Q. And every time that you came down to s came up to see you, they were together; weren't they? A. Yes MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSO! Q. Why wasn't he around to be a father? He just -- every time they came down to see us, he would leave and go visit his -- his brother Meryl. He never stayed around and he just never -- you know, he didn't even have anything to do with the kids. NR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. 33 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 is: OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. Call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: Randy Petty. THE COURT: Come forward. Come right on through the: You haven't been sworn, either; have you? PROSPECTIVE WITNESS: No, sir. THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-svorn.) THE COURT: Take your seat in the witness chair. RANDY PETTY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Would you state your nane, please? AL My nane? Q. Yes, sir? A. Randy Petty. Q. Where do you live, Mr. Petty? A. Gainesville, Texas. Q. Are you acquainted with a person named Cameron Todd Willingham, the defendant in this case? A. Yes, sir. 34 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 REPADQUGED PROM THE NGLEINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. Q. How do you happen to be acquainted with him? A. I met him about a little over three years ago through his brother. Q. Who -~ which brother was that? A. Davie Porter. Q. Okay. How did that meeting come about? What was the subject matter of that meeting? A. I raise bulldogs and Davie and Todd owned dogs, or used to own dogs. Q. Did Todd Willingham ever make a statement to you with regard to any violence toward -- toward a dog or an animal? A. Yeah; he said him and Davie~- WR. MARTIN: I object; leading and hearsay. THE COURT: TI overrule the objection. MR. MARTIN: It's irrelevant. THE COURT: T overrule the objection. Q. Please continue. A. He said him and Davie stole a dog off a guy and took it out and killed it. Q. Did he say how they killed it? A. He said he beat it in the head with a stick and then run over it with a car. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: 35 Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 L REPRODUEED FROU THe HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Q. Mr. Petty, I believe? AL Yes, sir. Q. All right. Did anyone tell you whose dog that was? Yes, sir. Q. Was that person a friend of yours? A. No. Q. Did you go to the police about it? A. No. Q. Mr. Petty, you have known Todd Willingham only through that one incident, or for-- A. No; several. a. long period time? A. I have known him for a long period of time. Q. Seems awfully strange that the District Attorney asked you about that one incident. Do you know it to be true, or were you just told that? A, Twas just told that. Q. You've never seen anything that would document that as being truthful? A. No. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. RE-DIRI ON BY MR. JACKSON: Q. ‘That -~ that was a brag Todd Willingham made to you; was it not? 36 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES It was -- that's what he told me. MR. JACKSON: No further questions. RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. You, Mr. Petty, fight dogs; don't you? A. No, sir. It's against the law to fight dogs. Q. Well, what do you -- don't you raise fighting dogs? A. I had one dog I used for stud purposes. Q. 0 And why i he's a fighting dog? A. Because he's registered. Q. A registered Bull Terrior; isn't he? A. Yes. Q. Better known as "Pit Bull," I guess. A. Yes. Q. And what kind of people breed to your dog? (sic) Those that have Collies and Dachsunds and Beagles? A. No; those that have registered Pit females sell the pups. Q. And you attend dog fights and have participated in dog fighting quite regularly; don't you? A. No, sir. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. MR. JACKSON: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. that dog used for stud purposes? Because 37 Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 RODO NOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES REPRODUCED FROM THE: thie TEXAS STATE # MR. JACKSO : May this witness be excused? THE COURT: Do you all need this witness further? You're excused; and you may leave when you get ready. MR. PETTY: Okay. THE COURT: Call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: I call Jimmy Hensley. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn the other day, sir? PROSPECTIVE WITNESS: Yeah. THE COURT: Take your seat, please. WR. JACKSON: May I proceed? THE COURT: Yes, sir. JIMMY HENSLEY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Would you state your name for the record, please? A. Jimmy Hensley. Q. How are you employed? A. I'ma detective with the Corsicana Police Department. Q. How long have you been employed in that capacity? A. A little over two years. Q. Can you tell us what you did before that? 38 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 19 20 ) 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Pad a ll ne Se, THE TEXAS STATE: A. Iwas a patrolman for the Police Department. Q How long have you been a peace officer? A. Roughly, 18 years. In the course of your employment as a peace officer, have you become acquainted with Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Ye 7 T have. Q. Are you familiar with his reputation in this community, for being a peaceful and law-abiding citizen? No. Q. Okay. Are you familiar with his reputation in the community? A. Yes; I am. Q. Okay. Is that reputation good, or bad? A. Bad. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. JACKSON: TI call Ted Montgomery. ‘THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. MR. JACKSON: This witness has not been sworn, Your Honor. THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat, please. MR. JACKSON: May I proceed, Your Honor? 39 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUGED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 aw 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 a6 25 ‘TED_MONTGOMERY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Will you state your name for the record, ple: A. ‘Ted Montgomery. Q. Ted, how are you-- THE COURT: Excuse me; pull the mike around, please, sir. A. ‘Ted Montgomery: Q. How are you employed? A. I'ma Police Detective with the Ardmore Police Department, in Oklahoma. Q. How long have you been employed by that agency? A. Approximately nine years. Q. In the course of your occupation, have you come in contact with a person by the name of Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that the same person who's the defendant in this case? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you tell us how you happened to come in contact with Cameron Todd Willingham during that period of time? ao} Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 1 A. Some investigations on different types of crimes that 2 | 1 was working on. 3 Are you familiar with his reputation in your area and 4 | your community for being a peaceful and law-abiding citizen? 5 yes, sir. 6 Q. Ie that reputation good, or bad? 7 Bad. 8 MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. 9 CROSS EXAMINATION zo | By mR. DUNN: an Mr. Montgomery, at one time, you arrested Mr. 12 | Willingham for a theft and later found out he was in jail the 13 | entire time that you thought that he had committed this crime; aa | as that right? 45 A. I don't remember that incident, sir. 16 WR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. uv RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION ae | py mr. gackson: 19 9. How many times would you say you've arrested Todd 20 | wit1inghan? aa A. Approximately three or four tines. 22 Q. How many tines have you interrogated him in 22 | connection with crimes? 24 A. Approximately six to seven ties. 25 MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. a1 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 20 REPROOUCED FROM TME MOL ii 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 Pn hhh a om lls a ae OF TE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Well, Mr. -- Officer Montgomery, if you interrogated him six or seven times, then there were many times that he was not guilty; is that right? A. Well, I-- MR. JACKSON: I believe I'11 have to object to that as being an assumption. That's -- this -- this detective does not determine whether people are guilty or not guilty, Your Honor. THE COURT: I sustain the objection. Q. Why wasn't he arrested all six or seven times, Officer Montgomery? A. The best way I can answer your question, sir, is, either there wasn't enough evidence or I just probably couldn't put the case together enough to get any type of conviction. Q. And I'm sure he's not the only person you questioned in regard to some of the questioning you did with him. Were there other suspects? A. Most of the time that I've -~ I've visited with Todd, he was the main person that I was looking at. Q. Mr. Montgomery, didn't you, at one time, tell Todd Willingham that you would put him in the penitentiary if it took you 20 years to do it? 42 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 EEE So eS UE ORS St ene” wag ei REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 123 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. I am trying to think if I made that statement, sir. I possibly could have said that if he didn't stop the kind of things that he was doing, that he would probably go to the penitentiary. Q. Were any of his offenses, Officer Montgomery, violent ones? A. ‘That I dealt with? Q. Yes. A. I wouldn't say they were violent. Q. If anything, they were little petty theft and minor things; is that right? A. I don't know so much about the petty theft. Would you like me to relate what some of the things were? Q. Well, they were misdemeanors; were they not? A. ‘The -~ some of them were; yes, sir. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. What were some of the things that you were involved in investigating? MR. MARTIN: Your Honor, we object to this under the Rule prohibiting the introduction of evidence regarding extraneous offenses. MR. JACKSON: They've opened the door, Your Honor. 43 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 MR. MARTIN: That's our objection. THE COURT: TI overrule the objection. Can you tell us what kind of offense -- can you tell us what type of offenses you did investigate with regard to Cameron Todd Willinghan? A. As far as the misdemeanor-type offenses would be contributing to the delinquency of minors. Felonies would be thefts of residence and auto burglaries Q. With regard to contributing to the delinquency of minors, in Todd's case, what type of conduct did -- did that consist of? A. That -~ where there was younger persons, ages anywhere from 11 to 15 years of age, giving them paint to inhale and beer. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. FURT! ROSS. TON BY MR. DUNN: Q. Officer Montgomery, Todd Willingham had a condition of paint sniffing; didn't he? A. Yes, sir. @. In fact he sniffed paint and abused paint fumes a lot during the period of time that he was in your area; is that right? A. [would say: Yes, sir. Q. Officer Montgomery, do you feel like that the paint 44 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCAWES: sniffing at that point in his life affected his judgment? A. I would have to say that anybody that would inhale intoxicants like that, yes, they'd probably impair their judgment. Q. And during the entire time you knew him, he sniffed paint, in spite of going to several drug rehab places, and abused paint and paint distillates; is that right? A, T would have to answer that, "Yes." MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. MORE FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. So rehabilitation was never successful, in your opinion, as far as Todd Willingham was concerned? A. ‘That would be true. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. DUNN: We have no more questions. THE COURT: You may step down. NR. JACKSO? : May this witness be excused? THE COURT: Do you all need this witness further? MR. DUNN: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: You're excused; and you may leave when you get ready, sir. Call your next witness, MR. JACKSON: Larry Denison. THE COURT: Come forward please, sir. You 45 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 a5 haven't been previously sworn; have you? PROSPECTIVE WITNESS: No, sir. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. LARRY DENTSON was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT_EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: “ Q. Would you state your name for the record, please, air? A. tarry Denison. : Q. Larry, how are you employed? A, I'm an investigator with the Cooke County Sheriff's Department. THE COURT: Would you pull that mike around in front of you, please? OFFICER DENISON: Okay. Q. Where is -- where is Cooke County? A. It's in North Texas. We're about 60 miles north of Dallas. Q. What -- what's your county seat there? A. Gainesville. Q. How long have you been employed in law enforcement? 46. Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ag 20 21 22 23 a4 25 REPRODUCED ROK THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES ; A total of about 15 years. Q. Are you familiar with the reputation of Cameron Todd Willingham in that community for being a peaceful and law-abiding citizen? Yes; I am. Q. Is that reputation good, or bad? A. It's bad. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness, Your Honor. MR. DUNN: We have no questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may-- MR. MARTIN: One -~ one -~ one moment, Judge. THE COURT: Okay. CROSS EXAMINATION BY'MR. MARTIN: Q. Officer Denison, did you arrest Todd Willingham for stealing a pack of cigarettes? A. No, sir; I did not. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witnes: MR. JACKSON: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. May this witn THE COURT: Do you all need this witness further? MR. JACKSON: --be excused? MR. MARTIN: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: You're excused, and you may leave ‘ a7 Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 a5 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE AHCAIVES when you get ready. MR. DENISON: Thank you, sir. THE COURT: Call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: I call ~~ the State calls Richard Schlaudroft. THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat there in the witness chair. NR. JACKSON: May I proceed, Your Honor? THE COURT: Proceed. RICHARD SCHLAUDROFF was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION, BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Would you state your name, please? A. Rich Schlaudroff, S~C-H-L-A-U-D-R-O-F-F. Q. Can you tell us how you are employed, sir? A. Yes. I'm employed by the Gainesville Police Department; and I am a Captain in the Criminal Investigation Division. Q. How long have you been a peace officer, sir? 43 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court SEPRODUGED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF The TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 1 A. About nineteen and a half years. a Q. In the course of your duties, have you become 3 familiar with the reputation of Cameron Todd Willingham for 4 being a peaceful and law-abiding citizen? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 @. Is that reputation good, or bad, sir? 7 A. It's bad. 8 MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. 9 MR. MARTIN: No questions. 20 THE COURT: You may step down a MR. JACKSON: May this witness be excused, Your 12 Honor? 23 THE COURT: You done? 14 MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir. 15 THE COURT: You're excused; and you may leave 16 when you get ready, sir. a7 MR. SCHLAUDROFF: Thank you. 18 MR. JACKSON: Thank you. 19 MR. SCHLAUDROFF: Uh-huh. 20 THE COURT: Call your next witness. a1 Maria Malowney. 22 THE COURT: Come forward, please, ma'am. Raise 23 your right hand. 24 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.} 25 THE COURT: Take your seat, please. 49 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AEPRGQUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. MR. JACKSON: May I proceed? THE COURT: Yes. MARIA TASSTE MALOWNEY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Would you state your name, please, ma'am? A. Maria Tassie Malowney, M-A-L-O-W-N-E-¥. Q. How are you employed? A. I'm Assistant District Attorney in Carter County, Oklahoma. I've been employed there just over 10 years. @. In the course of your duties as a Prosecutor in Oklahoma, have you become familiar with a person by the name of Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Yes; I have. Q. Are you aware that Cameron Todd Willingham is on trial here today and has been convicted of the offense of capital murder? A. Yes; I am. Q. Can you tell us how you became acquainted with Cameron Todd Willingham? A. During the time that he lived in Carter County, I a juvenile and prosecuted him on numerous occasions, both 50 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 “REPRODUGED FROM THe HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES as an adult. can you tell us, very briefly, the nature of the offenses for which you've prosecuted Cameron Todd Willingham? ‘The vast majority of the cases were property theft-type offenses. There were a number of misdemeanors. I have a list, if you need me to refer to it. Almost all of the cases, even the property theft offenses, involved the use of some sort of substance, usually paint. There were some misdemeanor offenses that were directly related to the use of paint, either DUI drugs--driving-under-the-influence of drugs--public intoxication, three contributing to the delinquency of a minor charges, involving giving minors paint. ‘There was one misdemeanor weapons charge that went hand-in-hand with one of the public intoxication offenses. Q. I believe I've asked you to -~ to -~ or you have compiled a synopsis of the offenses with which Mr. Willingham has been prosecuted; is that correct? A. Yes; I have. Q. Could you give us a synopsis of those offenses? A. Yes; I can: I do not have the synopsis of the juvenile offenses because I couldn't release those. I know we started in with him since, as I recall, he was about 15 or 16 years of age. The felonies- MR. DUNN: Your Honor, we would object to any reference to juvenile offenses; highly irrelevant and not 51 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPRODUCED PRON THe WOLBINGS OF Tis TEXAS STHTE ARCHNES 10 a. 12 13 14 4s 16 7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 admissible under our Constitution. MR. JACKSON: The -- the law in the State of Texas with regard to capital murder cases is different from the law with regard to normal evidence of -- of prior criminal history, Your Honor. Ms. Malowney has stated that she will not be able to go into those matters; and simply her reference to those matters, I do not believe, would be objectionable. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. Q. Please proceed, ma'am. A. With regards to the felonies, starting from the oldest and progressing forward: In 1986, in May, he was charged with burglary, Second Degree. That was of a bicycle shop in Ardmore. He was initially placed on probation in June of 1986. At that time, Oklahoma had something called a Nonviolent Intermediate -- Intermediate Offender Act. That was for people between the ages of 18 and 22 or 23, as I recall. So he was sentenced under that Act and placed on probation. Ultimately, when he was convicted of some of the other felonies in July of 1989, that original sentence was modified and he was given a deferred sentence, until January 9 of 1990, and he was also given 74 days in the Carter County Jail as part of that offense. In September of 1986, he was charged with three Second Degree burglaries. All of those cases were kicked out at the were of an automobile. Thos preliminary hearing. In September of 1986, he was charged 52 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 a3 14 45 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 with feloniously pointing a weapon against two other 18-year-olds. That charge was dismissed at the request of the State. What had happened -- I was the Prosecutor that handled when the boys first came in and told us about the that case offense, they related a weapon that they thought was a rifle. When we ultimately recovered the weapon, it turned out that it was a BB gun. And under Oklahoma law, at that time you could not file that particular charge when a BB gun was involved, as opposed to a regular rifle. In October of 1986, he was charged with grand larceny of a bicycle. In April of 1987, he was convicted of that charge, was sentenced to two years probation. It was a felony conviction. And he was also ordered to do 60 days in the Carter County Jail. In April of 1988, we filed a Motion to Vacate that sentence, to do away with the probation, because he had not complied with the terms of probation. He did that which he was supposed to do and we moved to dismiss that in May of 1988. We then refiled a Motion to Vacate the suspended sentence in February of 1989, based on one of the misdemeanors, which I'll later get to. In March of 1989, a Motion was sustained and the Court sentenced him to the Regimented Discipline Program with the Department of Corrections. He was actually sent to the penitentiary, but rather than being incarcerated with other adult felons -~ it's a special Boot Camp Program, for lack of a better term that's what the Court sentenced him to. He completed the Boot 53 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an 12 13 14 as 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Camp, was brought back to Carter County in July of 1989, and the Court gave him a two-year suspended sentence -~ again, a conviction on that charge -- with another 74 days in the Carter County Jail. At that time, the Court also ordered that he complete a program called TADD, T-A-D-D -- I'm sorry; I don't recall what the acronym stands for -- it was a substance abuse treatment program with the Department of Corrections, at the time. He was also ordered to take part in at least one AA or NA meeting per week and also to take part in urinalyses every week and a half. In 1987, in April, he was charged with two counts of larceny of a motorcycle. That charge was dismissed on Motion of the State. My records do not reflect why. In June of 1987, he was charged with possession and concealment of stolen property, a guitar. He was bound over to stand trial at the Preliminary hearing. ‘That was in September of 1987. By the time this case came up for trial in December of last -- of that year, we could no longer find the victim; he did not show up for trial and, consequently, the case was dismissed. That's all of the felonies. Going back to the misdemeanors, again to the oldest and coming more recently: In April of 1986, he was charged with carrying a concealed weapon, a Lark blade knife, and public intoxication. And that was paint. In April of 1986, he was convicted on both charges, was ordered to do four days in the County Jail on the weapons charge and was ordered to pay fine 54 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROW THE. 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES and costs on the other misdemeanor. In May of 1986, he was charged with entering a building with unlawful intent -~ that was a private home -- and ‘also with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Tt was a 12-year-old child to whom he had supplied paint. He was convicted on both charges, was ordered to pay a substantial amount of restitution -- quite a few hundred dollars, as I recall -~ because of the damage done to the home; was ordered to do one year probation, with 15 days in the Carter County Jail on the breaking and entering charge, and was ordered to do six months probation, with 15 days in the Carter County Jail on the contributing charge. Both of those sentences ran at the same time--they were concurrent. In November of 1986, he was again charged two times with contributing to the delinquency of minor. One was an 11-year-old and the other one was a 12-year-old to whom he had supplied paint. The Judge ordered him to do a total of 60 days in the Carter County Jail; 30 days -- excuse me ~~ on each charge. In September of 1988, he was charged with driving under the influence of liquor and/or drugs. In this case, it was, again, paint. He was convicted in November of 1988. ‘The Judge ordered that he be given one year's probation on condition that he check into an in-patient treatment rehabilitation program for -- specifically for paint abuse. And as part of that sentence, the State agreed not to revoke his felony probation. Ultimately, that sentence was vacated 55 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIV: 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in February of 1989, because of another misdemeanor that was committed. And on July 19th of 1989, the Judge gave him another year's probation on that charge, to run consecutive to the last felony that I had mentioned. And, finally, in February of 1989, he was charged with larceny of merchandise, felon -~ I'm sorry -- misdemeanor shoplifting; approximately five dollars worth of film from one of the stores in town. And in March of 1989, when he was sent to the penitentiary on @ felony case, he was also given 30 days in the Carter County Jail consecutive to the other charges. Q. Ms. Malowney, have you ever seen anybody who's gotten more chances than Cameron Todd Willingham to rehabilitate himself? A. I really can't think of any. and I certainly cannot think of any that were brought in front of the Court on Motions to Vacate nearly as many times, that were given chances to either go into rehabilitation or some similar program, instead of just being incarcerated. (State's Exhibit No. 61 was marked for identification.) Q. Let me show you what's been marked State's Exhibit No. 61, and it purports to be a penitentiary packet relating to felony offenses in which Mr. Willingham was ultimately incarcerated. Would you take a look at this and tell me if it applies to the same Cameron Todd Willingham, who's the 8 | Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 10 a 12 13 a4 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 PR id adh aera hg i ARCHIVES REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE, defendant in this -- in this case and also the defendant in the cases which you've testified regarding. A. Yes; they are. I recognize my signature on the copies of a number of these documents and also that of our special District Judge. MR. JACKSON: I offer this into evidence as State's Exhibit 61, at this time, and ask that it be admitted. MR. DUNN: May I see it, Your Honor? (Perusing exhibit.) May I take the witness on Voir Dire THE COURT: Yes, sir-- MR. DUNN: --Your Honor? THE COURT: --yes, sir. VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q Mrs. Malowney, is it a fact that the only signature that's in here that belongs to you is on a Motion to Vacate the Order and Suspension of the Execution of the Sentence? A. I know there's at least one. I thought I saw two similar Motions in there. I thought there was an Amended Motion in there, as well. There may not be. MR. DUNN: Your Honor, we object to them. This witness cannot verify that those are truly Pen Packets. All she can verify is her own signature on one page in there that says that she made a Motion to Vacate the Judgment. MR. JACKSON: This is a self-proving document, 57 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court \* REPRODEGED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 Your Honor. It's been linked to this defendant through the personal knowledge of Ns. Malowney. Based on that, we'd offe: it. THE COURT: I overrule your objection and it's admitted. (State's Exhibit No. 61, an Oklahoma Pen Packet on defendant, was offered and admitted into evidence, over objection.) MR. JACKSON: I believe I'll pass the witness at this time. CROSS BXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. Mrs. Malowney, the incidents that you have reviewed, I believe, if my notes are correct, were almost all connected directly to abuse of paint or sniffing of paint? A. I would have to agree with that; yes, sir. Q. Having been with the District Attorney's Office for 10 years, I'm sure you are familiar with this type of drug problem and/or addiction; are you not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, explain it to the jury. What -~ what are we talking about? Is it -- and I don't mean to be facetious, ma'am, but I would like for you to go to the basics, because I don't understand it. Do you buy a gallon of paint and carry it around and sniff it all day? Or what -- what is the process? 58. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court nea oa ee ee REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. No, sir. The process is, typically, it's either silver or gold paint. The other types of paint -- sometimes clear -- the other types of paint, whatever the chemical in it -- in the paint is that makes you high, is not found in and other colored paints. Typically, what these people do I've -- from having reviewed the records and -- and from ny own recollection in the -- in that -~ the actual paint-sniffing cases, what the defendant did would be go -~ to go to a store and buy spray paint in those small round bottles that you find, that most people use for household use. They, typically, spray it onto a sock, into a ~~ an empty Coke can, something that will concentrate the odor--the aroma--and then find, usually, it's a excluded spot, whether an empty house or -~ or an alleywa; some secluded spot --' and start inhaling that concentrated aroma. Usually when the people are caught, the affects of the paint sniffing are seen on them. They -- it's very common to see gold paint around the face or on the clothing. You can usually find the -- the evidence of the paint sniffing around the person. Q. Mrs. Malowney, is this an addiction-type situation? It is an addiction-type situation, just as alcohol addiction or any other addiction. It is an addiction, but a person can get cured from it. Q. Tunderstand. But is this addiction an on-going, like the use of crack cocaine or something, until the cycle is 59 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES broken? MR. JACKSON: Excuse me, Your Honor; I think I'm going to have to object at this point. I probably should have objected earlier, but, this -- obviously, Ms. Malowney h personal knowledge of the mechanics of this type of abusive behavior. But from -- from a -- a -- a practical standpoint, I would object to these -- this type of testimony being elicited -- elicted from a -- a lawyer, instead of a doctor or psychologist. MR. DUNN: May it please-- THE COURT: I sustain the objection. MR, DUNN: All right, Your Honor; may we have the jury excused and make a Bill on this while we have this witness present? THE COURT: Members of the jury ~~ jury panel, if you will, go back in the courtroom (sic), please. (The jury entered the jury room while the following was made of record outside the jury's hearing:) THE COURT: Hold up just a minute. This courtroom is not in recess. MR. DUNN: Your Honor, may we? THE COURT: Sure. DEFENSE'S BILL OF EXCEPTIONS BY MR. DUNN: Q. Mrs. Malowney, as counsel for this defendant, I have 60 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 PRON THE HOtbiblaS OF The TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES an obligation to bring forth all the mitigating evidence that is available on his behalf in the Punishment Stage of this case. Now, my question goes to you is: What is your knowledge in regard to the addictive nature of paint sniffing or paint accelerant? A, All I can say, sir, is that from -- from the cases that T have dealt with, again, just like any other addiction, I'ye never known of anyone to kick the habit without some sort of outside intervention. Other than that, as to the mechanics of it, I don't honestly think I can tell you anything in great-— Q. all right. A. -> detail. Q. Mrs. Malowney, the efforts that were made by your office were all in consideration of the fact that it was fairly evident that Mr. Willingham was addicted to paint sniffing; is that right? A. I'm not sure I understand the question, sir. Yes; it was fairly evident that Mr. Willingham was addicted to paint sniffing. Q. And that's the reason that he was given Boot Camps and-~ THE COURT: Let me ask you this: Mr. Dunn, is this what you want to put out in front of the jury? MR. DUNN: Yes, Your Honor. 1 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS. STATE ARCHIVES. 20 a 12 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Well, let's bring the jury in. MR. DUNN: I just have to prove mitigating circumstances-- THE COURT: Well, I MR. DUNN: --and I was -- was trying to explain. I have no idea what she knows, and that was the reason for my questions-~ THE COURT: Well-- MR. DUNN: --to ask her to explain this for us. THE COURT: Let me visit with you all just a minute. (The following was made of record at the bench and outside the hearing of the witness and audience:) THE COURT: I don't believe this is what you were into -- you were getting into whenever we sent the jury out. MR. DUNN: Well, I was trying to find out if it's addictive; and she said it was. MR. JACKSON: But I-- MR. DUNN: And the next area was why he was given all of these breaks; and it's because of hii THE COURT: Well, what -- what was it you objected to, John? MR. JACKSON: I think I said that she didn't have or she was not qualified to a sufficient professional bas: give an opinion on the dynamics of-~ 62 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 1 THE COURT: I understand that; but she is -~ 2 HR. JACKSON: | ~-abuse. 3 THE COURT: What -~ what he's asking her right 4 | now is what she's already testified to. 5 MR. JACKSO} Yeah; it's the same thing. 6 THE COURT: TI thought you was fixing to get in 7 | deeper than what you are right now. I think that's where you 8 are heading. 9 MR. DUNN: Oh, no; I don't know enough. 10 THE COURT: Okay. an Bring the jury panel back. 2 (the jury enterea the courtroom and the following proceedings were had:) 2B 14 ‘THE COURT: Proceed, Mr. Dunn; the jury panel is as | back. 16 CROSS_EXAMINATION RESUMED ar | ay me. pow: a8 Q. Mrs. Malowney, I believe the last answer that you 19 | gave me was that you felt that paint sniffing and the -- the 20 | contents of properties of paint was addictive; is that right? a1 A. Yes, sir. 22 Qe Did you recognize, from the behavior of Todd 23 Willingham, that he was addicted or had a severe problem with 24 | paint snitting? 25 A. Yes, sir. 63 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED PROM THE HOLEINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ANGE Q. And does that explain the amount of suspended sentences and/or Boot Camp Programs and/or probations that Were accorded him through your office? A. No, sir. Those were not accorded to him through our office. Q. All right. Were they ordered by the Court after listening to all of the evidence? AL Yes, sir. @. To your -- go ahead, ma'am; I didn't mean to step on your toes. A. Yes, sir; they were accorded to him by the Court. I'm still not sure I agree with your question, though. Q. All right. Mrs. Malowney, your contact with Toad Willingham was, obviously, in Oklahoma, in your county; that right? A. Yes, sir. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. MR. JACKSON: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MS. MALOWNEY: Thank you. THE COURT: Do you all need this witness further? MR. DUNN: No, Your Honor. MR. JACKSON: No; this witness may be excused. THE COURT: You're excused, and you may leave when you get ready. I think-~ 64 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THe HOLBINGS OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. MR. JACKSON: May I approach the bench? (The following was made of record and was outside of the hearing of the jury, witness, and audience:) THE COURT: I'm fixing to take a break. MR. JACKSON: Okay. THE COURT: What is it? MR. JACKSON: Okay. I had -- I was going tell you I had one more little short witness. THE COURT: Okay. We'll just take it. And that way we could get that thing out of the way. THE COURT: Yeah; that's fine; you bet. MR. MARTIN: That's it? MR. JACKSON: No; I've got two psychiatrists, but one's not supposed to be here for another 20 minutes. (The following was within the hearing of all:) THE COURT: Call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: Jobn H. Bailey. THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. Mr. Bailey, I believe you were sworn yesterday; is that correct? MR. BAILEY: I was. THE COURT: Take your seat -- excuse me; take your seat, sir. 65 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE, 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 JOHN HENRY BAILEY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIREC’ TON BY MR. JACKSON: Would you state your name for the record, please?. A. John Henry Bailey. Q. Mr. Bailey, where do you live? A. Twelve oh four West Eleventh. Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. and Mrs. Cameron Todd Willingham? A. Yes, sir; I am. Q. How is it that you're acquainted with them? A. Just from living across the street from them. Q. You testified earlier in the trial of this case, I believe. A. Yes, sir. Q. het me ask you a question, Mr. Bailey. Did stacy Willingham ever come to your house, seeking help? A. Yes, sir; one time when her and Todd were split up and he was threatening her and driving around in front of the house and hollering obscenities at her. MR. MARTIN: I object to that as hearsay. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. 66 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 10 a 12 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED PROM THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Q. You may continue, sir. A. Anyway, he was driving around, coming by the nities at the house. And she neighborhood and hollering obs came over and used the telephone to call the police. Q. Did she tell you why she wanted to use the telephone? A. She felt like her-- MR. MARTIN: We object to that as hearsay. THE COURT: I'11 overrule the objection. Q. You may answer, sir. A. She felt like she was in danger; she and her children. @. Did you ever have an opportunity to see this defendant strike her? A. Yes, sir, T did, one afternoon. Her and Todd were on the porch, having somewhat of an argument; and he did slap her with an open hand. Q. Did you ever have an occasion to hear arguments within the house? A. Yes, sir. Q. What -- what was the nature of those sounds you heard from that house? A. At one time I heard a lot of arguing going on; and being the nosey neighbor that I am, I stepped out on the front porch just to listen. and T heard him screaming at her and her screaming at him; and then finally I heard him say-~ 67 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court « RRPABDURED PROa Me NOLEDIGS OF Thi TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 aL 22 23 24 25 MR. DUNN: We object, Your Honor; nonresponsive. MR. JACKSON: No, Your Honor, I believe this was the question I asked, Your Honor. 1'11 be happy to reask it. THE COURT: TI -~ I overrule the objection. Q. Please continue, sir. A. And at one point I heard him say, "Get up, bitch, and I'll hit you again.” MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. DUNN: We have no questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. JACKSON: May this witness be excused, Your Honor? THE COURT: Do you all need this witness? You're excused; you may leave when you get ready. Members of the jury panel, we're going to be in recess for a few minutes. Remember the previous instructions, and we'll see you back shortly. (Recess was had; after which the following oceurred:) THE COURT: Bring the panel in, Bill. (The jury entered the courtroom and the following occurred:) THE COURT: The jury panel is back in place. 68 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE EBS sre ES 10 aa 12 13 14 a5 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Mr, Jackson, call your next witness. MR. JACKSON: Don sullivan. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.} THE COURT: Take your seat, please. MR. JACKSON: May T proceed? DON SULLIVAN was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT_EXAMINATION BY MR, JACKSON: Q. Would you state your name for the record, please? A. Don Sullivan. Q. Don, how are you employed? A. I'ma detective sergeant from Navarro County Sheriff's Department. Q. In that -- in that capacity -- let me ask you: How long have you been in law enforcement here in Navarro County? A. Nearly 15 years. Q. Don, what are your duties as a -~ as a Deputy Sheri: in Navarro County? A. I'ma criminal investigator; and I'm also in charge of the Identification Section. Q. With regard to your identification duties, can you Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ff 69. REPRODUCED one OLBUMGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an a2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 give me a synopsis of your background, experience and education insofar as fingerprint identification is concerned? Yes, sir. I have a basic ~~ a certificate in basic Sheriff's Academy. TI have a fingerprints, from the Dalli certificate in advanced fingerprints, from Dallas Sheriff's Academy, I have a certificate in advanced latent fingerprint comparison, from the Dallas Sheriff's Academy. I have a certificate in advanced latent fingerprint techniques, from the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have a Batchelor's Degree. The major is Criminal Justice. And within that major, I have a course entitled, “The Science of Pingerprints." Q. Do you have an opportunity to examine and compare fingerprints on a regular basis? A. Yes; I do. Q. Let me hand you what's been marked State's Exhibit No. 62, which is, apparently, a fingerprint card. Can you identify that for me, please? A. Yes, sir; this is a fingerprint card. I took these fingerprints from Mr. Willingham, today. Q. Is that the same Cameron Todd Willingham, the ent in the courtroom today? defendant, pri A. Yes; he is. Q. Can you identify him, please? A. He's the gentleman in the suit -- gray suit. He's 70 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 1 next to -- between the counselors. 2 THE COURT: The record will reflect that he has 4 Q. I believe you said you took these fingerprints—— 5 A. Yes, sir; I did. 6 Q --of Mr. Willingham today? I'll show you what's been 7 admitted as State's Exhibit No. 61; and I'll ask you to 8 identify this document, if you can. 9 A This is what's called a ~~ commonly called a Pen 10 Packet. This particular one is from the Oklahoma Department a7 A Yes, sir; Todd Willingham. 18 Q. All right. Have you had an opportunity to compare 20 those contained in that Penitentiary Packet-~ 7 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 62 into evidence, at this time, and ask that it be admitted. MR. MARTIN: No objection. THE COURT: It's admitted. (State's Exhibit No. 62, fingerprint comparison, was offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No questions. THE COURT: You may step down. Call your next witness. MR, JACKSON: The State calls Tim Gregory. THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat, please, sir. You may proceed. ‘TIM GREGORY was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION. BY MR. GREGORY: Q. Would you state your name for the record, please? A. Tim Gregory. Q. Mr. Gregory, how are you employed? A, I'ma licensed professional counselor, private 72 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | SePaGueED PROM cao tt THE ROLbHNGS OF Ti TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 practice. Q. Where are you from, Mr. Gregory? A. From Houston, Texas. Q- Can you give us a synopsis of your background, experience and education with regard to the kind of work you 40? A. Okay. 1986, I began a -- a Master's Program in marriage and family counseling. During that time, I worked in three psychiatric hospitals, and working with adolescents. I graduated July of ‘89, and began private practice; and that's what I'm doing now. Q. When you say “private practice," what does that, basically, consist of? A. Working with marriage and family issues. Working with Child Protective Services. Working with the abusive-type of families. Q. In that -- in that field of expertise, do you normally deal with issues of the abnormal psychology? A. Yes; I do. Q. As a counselor who deals on a regular basis in abnormal psychology, are you familiar with the term sociopath? A. Yes; I am. Q. Can you tell us some of the manifestations or some of the outward symptoms of soc -- sociopathic behavior? A. Sociopaths -- one key factor with a sociopath, it's 73 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a2 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 an individual that doesn’t have a conscience, a sense of + ‘They, many times, respect for others, property, other lif. are very conning. Can be very good con artists. They can give you a mask of a very nice person, but they have a dark side that usually shows a history of violence, of substance abuse, of problems with school. Many times they're dropouts. ong criminal history, stealing, theft, lying. Sociopathic lying ~~ lying would be -~ many times they lie and don't realize they're lying; they do it so quickly and so good. Q. Js this many times associated with criminal conduct? A. Very much. Q. Insofar as ability of a person of this type to be rehabilitated, what -- what are, generally, the chances of rehabilitation when we're speaking of a sociopathic person? A. There is, I would say, very, very low. It is -- I would say, with this type of profile, that I have not known one to be rehabilitated. Q. All right. Let me ask -- let me ask you to assume a set of facts-- A. Okay. Q. --in a hypothetical situation. That -- well, let me back up and just ask you to assume these -- these -- these facts. Assume with me a situation where we have an individual who has exhibited antisocial behavior as a juvenile, through paint sniffing and property crimes. Assume with me a person 14 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court RePROOUE if THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 6 a who has manipulated younger children to assist him in criminal ) 2 | activities. Assume with me that these activities continued 3 into adulthood and he continued to -~ as he continued to 4 participate in criminal activity, such as theft, substance 5 | abuse and assaultive conduct. Assume with me that his 6 | relationship with women is marked with violence and abuse. 7 | atso assune with me that he has assaulted a girlfriend or wife 8 when he found out she was pregnant, in an attempt to cause a 9 miscarriage of a child. Assume with me that he has made 10 threats of death to others and continued to engage in -- in 11 antisocial behavior at a later time in his life; that -- that 12 he has engaged in violent acts against animals, including - 13 beating a dog to death. And, although he's been given ) 14 opportunities to rehabilitate himself on numerous occasions, 15 he has not done so. Also assume with me that he has an 16 | obsession with death and destruction. Do you have an opinion | 17 | as to what type of individual we would be speaking of? 18 NR. DUNN: Your Honor, at this time we would 19 object to that question. This witness has not been qualified 20 | as an expert to give an expert opinion; and we'd like to take 21_| him on voir Dire. 22 THE COURT: All right, sir. 23 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION i 2a | By me. puww: 25 Q. Mr. Gregory, I believe you said that you had had 75 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ent SOURS Faia wineha he REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 family and marriage practice and worked in clinical situations. Your actual academic consists of a Master's Degree; is that right? A. That's correct; Master's in marriage and family counseling. Q. And have you gotten any minor in any other type of science or any other type of behavior studies? A. No, I don't; that's part of my training, is psychological issues, abnormal psychology. Q. Mr. Gregory, this is actually, to my knowledge, the second criminal case that you have been a witness for the State's Attorney's Office; is that right? A. That's correct. Q. Those experiences have only been through the District Attorney's Office here in Navarro County; is that right? A. That is -- that is not correct. @. You said there was just two cases. A. dust two cases here in Navarro County. Q. All right. A. That's correct. Q. Have you testified for other District Attorney's Offices or any other situations in court? A. Yes; Ihave. As I said earlier, I worked with Child Protectice Services for three different counties here in Texas. And I have had to testify in competence for a mother. 16 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 It was a custody case. That was -- that was one that I can renember. Q. Mr. Gregory, have you ever written any treatise or any papers on sociopathic behavior? A. In college, I did. Q. No postgraduate work? A. No. Q. Do you belong any -~ to any-- A. Excuse me; postgraduate, meaning a Master's level, is what I was speaking of. Q. After you have finished any formal education-— A. No; T haven't. @. written any articles for magazines A. Yes, I have. Q. And were they involving sociopathic behavior? A. Yes; I have read many articles related to sociopathic, psychopathic. Q. My question to, Tim, was, have you written any? A. No; I have not written any. Q. There are none, no publications that you've collaborated on or been a part of involving sociopathic behavior? That -- that is correct. MR. DUNN: We would pass the witness at this time, Your Honor, and renew our objection. He has not been 2 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Sea Mi THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS-STATE ARCHIVES ~ 10 a 12 13 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 qualified for such an opinion on a hypothetical basis as an expert. MR. JACKSON: On the contrary, Your Honor, this witness is qualified as a -- as a graduate level psychologist family counselor. He deals with the issues of abnornal behavior on a regular basis. His practice consists of treating persons with abnormal behavior. It's his profession; and we believe that he's qualified. The fact that he has not testified in court very many times has very little significance. I'm sure that if the reverse were true, Mr. Dunn would object because he testified all the time, so-- THE COURT: I overrule the objection. Proceed. DIRECT EXAMINATION RESUMED BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mr. Gregory, in spite of that interruption, I -- I assume you still have in mind the hypothetical situation that I posed to you? A. Yes; T do. Q. In your opinion, what type of individual would that hypothetical describe? A. ‘That hypothetical would describe, as we've been talking about, a sociopath, a person with no conscious, no regard for human life; just a very destructive personality. Q. “In your opinion, would such a person have any substantial chance of rehabilitation? 78 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 A. In my opinion, there is -- there is not much chance of any type of rehabilitation at all. @. In your opinion, would such a person be a continuing threat to society? A. Absolutely. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. Mr. Gregory, are you familiar with the effects of paint sniffing on the brain? - I'm not an expert as to the physiological effect of paint sniffing. Q. What are the effects, that you know of, from your own experience? A. It gives the individual a high. It -- I'm sure there is -- I know there is some damage, such as with alcohol or any other type of substance abuse. @. Well, you told, as one of the characteristics of a sociopath is that that person has a substance abuse problen. What did you have in mind when you said that? . Substance abuse, that is a common characteristic. Their -- you can be a sociopath and not have a substance abuse problem. The kinds of it substance -~ the typical substance abuse T run against would be alcohol, pot, prescription drugs, crack cocaine, acid, morphine. 1 Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED PROM Toke MOLUMES OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an 12 13 14 18 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Q. That, Mr. Gregory, is, basically, in your family practice; is that right? A. That's in the -- working with Child Protective Services and those families and in private practice; that's correct. And also with my association three years in psychiatric hospitals in Fort Worth. Q. Mr. Gregory, you've testified for John Jackson in one other case that involved a sex abuse case-~ A. That's cor-~ Q. --did you not? A. --that is correct. Q. And I defended that person that was accused in that case? A. ‘That's correct. Q. And you are, in addition to that, a social friend of Mr. Jackson's; is that right? A. A social friend, meaning~- Q. Well, he -- you and he hunt geese on the Coast together; is that right? A. I have -- yeah, I've invited a group of professionals down to get away from the -- the professional world. Q. Mr. Gregory, have you ever examined the defendant, Todd Willingham, in this case? A. He would have to be willing for me to do that, and cooperative, and so I have not been able to do that. 80. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF Tie TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. Is the answer, "no"? A. The answer is no. Q. And have you ever talked to any of his family members or any other persons associated with him in any way? A. Yes. tn any way, meaning indirectly through al1 the statements that they have made and through the records that 7 was given. Q. ‘That was my next question. Mr. Gregory, you have been supplied by the District Attorney with certain items of statements, evidence, police reports, and other things that Mr. Jackson supplied you with; is that right? A. Yes; that's correct. Q. Weren't those items shockingly close to the elements of the hypothetical that Mr. Jackson has presented to you here in court? A. ‘There is ~~ there's some definite similarities. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mr. Gregory, I'11 ask you to take a look at some photographs-- A. All right. a. some of which have been admitted into evidence. I'd like to -- I'11 ask you to look at what's been marked State's Exhibit 21 and 22, also State's Exhibit 60. And I‘11 a1 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPROQUCED FROM THE 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NOLBINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. ask you to examine those photographs for me, if you can. Have you had an opportunity to examine these photographs? A. Yes; just a few minutes ago. Q. With regard to these photographs, would a person who exhibited this type of art on a regular basis -- do you have an opinion as to what type of motivation a person would have to exhibit this type art? A. ‘The only thing I can say is really what the art depicts and what the focus is. The focus~~ Q. What is that, sir? A. ‘This one? Q. Yes, sir. A. This one is a picture of a ~~ of a skull, with a fist being punched through the skull. It's an Iron Maiden poster depicting violence, death. Q. TI believe that's State's Exhibit 60; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. hand you State's Exhibit 22; and I'll ask you to explain that photograph now. A. ‘This is another poster that depicts an individual with a sword. Tt shows that is a skeleton with a silhouettes of -- it's hard to describe what these individuals are doing, but it's a -~ definitely, it depicts violence and death. Q. With regard to State's Exhibit No. 21, what would oa] Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ) 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 ARPRGRUCED FROW THE HOLDINGS OF Tie TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES that be in that picture there, sir? A. It's more pictures depicting violence, death. There's a hooded skull, with wings and a hatchet, a cobra And all of these are in fire, depicting -- it reminds me of something like hell. And there's a picture -~ a Led Zeppelin picture of a falling -- a falling angel. And those -- those types of pictures, usually -- I see there's a association many times with cultive-type of activities. A focus on death, dying. Many times individuals that have a lot of this type of art have interest in a satanic-type of activities or interests. Q. Mr. Gregory, Mr. Dunn has eluded to some personal relationship between you and me. Does the fact that we're friends and I visit -- visit from time to time, does that have any impact on your professional opinion in this case? A. Absolutely no impact whatsoever. I base my opinions based upon the records that I have read and on that basis only. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS INATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. Mr. Gregory, are you familiar with the rock group Led Zeppelin? A. Yes; T am. Q. Is not one of those a Led Zeppelin poster? 83 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. One of those is a Led Zeppelin poster. That's correct. Q. That are commonly sold in music stores and/or other- A. ‘That's correct. Q. --video places? A. Yes, sir. Q. Doctor, let me ask you: If we have, hypothetically, a 24-year-old man that has a family, does the putting of those posters on a wall in the home indicate some kind of juvenile or ~~ or adolescent behavior? A. That would be consistent with some adolescence. Q. Doctor, I assume you are some years older than 24, but probably not a whole lot, from my observation. ‘That is not ~~ when you were 24, you didn't put rock star posters on your wall; did you? A. No; I didn't. Q. Ts that type behavior indicative of anything other than immaturity or adolescence or some other type of thing that -- that might be contrary to what your allegations of devil worshipping are? A. Which type of behavior? Q. Well, the posters, Led Zeppelin, the rock star posters on the wall. A. Can it be indicative of another type of individual? Q. Or maybe adolescent behavior or immaturity? 34 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25, FRE Ciiaeete eter hse papas eee Soe RR EN UE Pol wala Sei age: REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES A. Yes; they can be. MR. DUNN: Pass the witness, Your Honor. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Has anything Mr. Dunn said caused you to change your opinion about a person ~~ a person's ability to be rehabilitated in circumstances I have described? A. None whatsoever. Q. Does any question he's asked you have any effect on your opinion regarding whether a person would continue to be dangerous? A. The person that you described? Q. Yes, sir. A. Now MR. JACKSON: Pass-- A. --no doubt. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. DUNN: No more questions. THE COURT: You may step down. Do you all need this witness further? MR. JACKSON: No; he may be excused. THE COURT: You're excused. You may leave when you get ready. MR. JACKSON: May we approach the bench? THE COURT: Yes, sir. 85 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ) ) RErROORGED Pmodi re nous Gr Fae Teas Srare ACHES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (The following bench conference was made of record outside the hearing of the jury:) MR. JACKSON: TI have a certified copy of Judgment and Sentence in another County case. I think it's a -- it's a self-proven document. If -~ if you need a witness to prove it up, I'll be happy to call one, but-- MR. MARTIN: What is it? MR. JACKSON: It's just-- MR. DUNN: (undecipherable) person down here. THE COURT: I'11 testify that that's my signature. MR. JACKSON: Ask the Court to take judicial notice?. MR. MARTIN: Uh-huh. Whatever you all do is fine. MR. DUNN: I didn't represent him; did 1? MR. MARTIN: No; Bill Smith. MR. JACKSON: Well-- MR. DUNN: John, we're not in a position to (undecipherable). This CYA position-- MR. JACKSON: Oh, T understand. MR. DUNN: --in this situation is so important. MR. MARTIN: Well, can't -- can't the Court take judicial notice of its own records? ‘THE COURT: I -- I don't know about that. . 86 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED: PROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Pat. MR. JACKSON: Let me just call Pat. I'll call MR. DUNN: On the certification? MR. JACKSON: Well, Pat's willing. THE COURT: Okay. (The following was within the hearing of all:) MR. JACKSON: T call Pat Batchelor. (state's Bxhibit No. 3 was marked for identification.) THE COURT: Take your seat, please. PATRICK BATCHELOR was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. aA. Would you state your name for the record, please? Patrick C. Batchelor. Can you tell us how you are employed? I'm the Criminal District Attorney of Navarro County, How long have you been employed in that capacity? Since January 1, 1975. I'll show you what's been marked State's Exhibit No. 87 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ene nS F REPRODOCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 63. Can you identify this document, please? A. Yes; I can. Q. Can you tell us what that is? A. It's a Judgment of conviction in Cause No. 91-00-24240-CR in the 13th Judicial District Court of this county, styled The State of Texas vs Cameron Todd Willingham. Q. What's the offense alleged in that Judgment? A. Burglary of a motor vehicle. Q. And what, in effect, does that document -- what -~ what is that document and what does it mean, Mr. Batchelor? A. It means that Cameron Todd Willingham, the defendant in this particular proceeding, was convicted on September the 30th, 1991, of that felony offense and was placed on a probation for a period of nine years. Q. Is that the same Cameron Todd Willingham present in the courtroom today? A. Yes; it is. Q. With regard to the probation, can you tell us why the State would recommend probation in a case such as this? A. Basically, the reason that we recommended probation in this case was that our records indicated, after we ran Mr. Willingham's record on the NCIC national crime computer and TCIC national crime computer, it shows that he had never before been convicted of a felony in this state or any other state. And Mr. Willingham was placed on the stand during the 88 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 nw 12 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 ae WS ES Pe RE TF Stele ws REPRODUCED FROM THE HOt ‘OF THE TEXAS STATE. ARCHIVES: proceeding and testified, at the insistence of his attorney, Bill Smith, that he had never before been convicted of a felony in this state or any other state. Q. Have you found, since that time, that the records of the NCIC, the Crime Information Center, were incorrect? A. Yes; we have. Q. Have you found that he had an extensive criminal history-- A. Yes. Q. -cin the state of Oklahoma? A. Yes; we did. Q. Based on your knowledge of Mr. Willingham, his background and his behavior in this courtroom, especially with regard to the testimony in that case, do you have an opinion as to his reputation in this community for both, truth and veracity and -~ excusse me; let me back up -- for being a peaceful and law-abiding citizen? A. Yes. His reputation is bad. MR. JACKSON: All right. Pass the witness. MR. DUNN: No questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. JACKSON: TI offer this into evidence and ask that it be admitted at this time. MR. DUNN: We have no objection. THE COURT: It's admitted. 89 Réde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Pini A nah's REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXA 1 MR. JACKSON: The State calls James Grigson. a MR. MARTIN: Who did you say, John? 3 MR. JACKSON: James Grigson. 4 ‘THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. 5 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) 6 THE COURT: Take your seat, please, sir. 1 DR. GRIGSON: ‘Thank you. 8 MR. JACKSON: May I proceed? 9 ‘THE COURT: You may proceed. 10 JAMES GRIGSON 11 | was called as a witness by the State; and being sworn to tell 12 | the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was 13 | examined and testified as follows, to wit: a4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 1s | BY MR. JACKsoN: 16 Q. Would you state your name for the record, please, a7 | sir? 1s A. dames P. Grigson. a9 Q. And, Dr. Grigson, can you tell us what you do? 20 A. I'm a medical doctor. 1 specialize in psychiatry. 21 | 1'm self-employed. 22 @. Can you give us an idea of your experience and 23 | education and ~~ and background insofar as your specialty is 24 | concerned? 25 A. Yes, sir. I obtained my MD Degree from Southwestern 90 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 Medical School branch of the University of Texas, located in Dallas. I then spent one year in a rotating internship at Baylor Medical Center. At the end of that time I decided to specialize in psychiatry. I spent the next 18 months at Timberlawn Psychiatric Hospital in Dall. ‘Then I spent the next 18 months at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. I was Chief Psychiatry Resident during my third year of residency training. I then went into full-time teaching in the Department of Psychiatry at the medical school. I taught full-time for four and a half years. During that period of time, I was consultant to the Terrell State Hospital system for two years. I was consultant to Texas Women's University Health Center for two years. I was consultant to the Dallas County Health Department for three years. I've been out in private practice now for a little over 20 years. I've continued to teach throughout that period of time; however, it has been on @ limited basis. I am certified by the American Board of Neurology and Psychiatry. My license to practice medicine in the State of Texas is on file in Dallas County. @. What does your practice, basically, consist of at this time, Doctor? A. I'm 98-99 percent in doing forensic or legal psychiatry. Q. Do you have an opportunity to ~~ I'm sure you ~~ let me back up a little bit. Do you do this on a regular basis, on Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Shi T, DINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE BRCHIVES. REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE A) 10 aa 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 is what I'm trying to say. A. Five days a week and sometim it's very regular. over the weekends, so Q. In the course of your practice, do you have occasion to come in contact with persons of abnormal psychology on a regular basis? A. Every day; yes, sir. Q. All right. We've heard the term in this courtroom “sociopath” and socio ~~ and also “sociopathic behavior." Can you describe what that means? A. Yes, sir. A sociopath is a slang term for antisocial personality disorder. It has previously been called a psychopath, a sociopath. But it means an individual that does not have a conscience. Their only interest is in their own self-gratification and pleasure. They're repeatedly breaking the rules. They con, manipulate, use people. They have disregard for other people's property. And then the more severe form are those individuals that have disregard for other human beings. Q. Is that type of behavior often manifested by person! repeatedly committing crime? A. Yes, sir; it is. That's typical, classical. Q. With regard to persons who fit into this category, have you found that there is any substantial hope of rehabilitation of this type of individual? 92 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPROOUEED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF Tile TEXAS STATE ARCHES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 a5 A. After that individual has gotten past their late adolescence or into young adulthood, if they have been involved in any type of violent behavior, there's nothing that's going to change that. If they have not been involved in violent-type behavior, then maybe 95 percent of them at age 30 will go ahead and start conforming to the law. But if there is violence involved in their antisocial behavior, then there is no form of medication or no form of rehabilitation that's going to change or modify their behavior. Q. Dr. Grigson, let me pose a hypothetical situation for you; and I'll ask you to listen to this and that; and at the end I'll ask you a question about whether a person who exhibits these characteristics would fall into the category you've described. Assume with me a situation where we have an individual who has exhibited antisocial behavior as a juvenile, through paint sniffing and property crimes. He's a person who's manipulated younger children to assist him in criminal activities. As an adult, he's continued to participate in criminal activity, such as theft, substance abuse and assaultive-conduct. His relationship with women is marked with violence and abuse. He ~~ assume with me that he assaulted his wife or girlfriend when she found out she was pregnant, in an attempt to cause or create a miscarriage of the child. He has made threats of death to others and continued to engage in antisocial behavior through his young 93 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 See gale SEIS Swe Weheee ee: REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE: adulthood. We has engaged in violent acts against animals, including beating a dog to death and running over the dog with acar. He has not attempted to rehabilitate himself, although he's been given numerous opportunities. And he, apparently, has an obsession with death and destruction. Doctor, do you have an opinion as to what type of individual this hypothetical describes A. Well, you're describing the typical extremely severe sociopath. Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether an individual who fits this hypothetical could be rehabilitated to any marked extent? A. No. An individual that's been involved in the type of behavior that you're describing, I mean, we don't have any type of medical treatment. There's no pill; there's nothing that I know of, in the way of rehabilitation-type of thing, that works with that type of individual. Q. The person such as I've described in the hypothetical, in your opinion, would such a person be a continuing threat to society? A. Oh, absolutely; certainly. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUNN: Q. Doctor, these hypotheticals assume that the things 94 Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court } 10 REPRGDOCED PHOM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 that were said to make up the hypothetical are true; is that right? A. Right; that's correct. Q. Doctor, in your practice you have testified, to my knowledge, over a long period of time for the District Attorney's Office and in Dallas, Tarrant County and other counties; is that right? A. I have never testified for anybody, but I have testified probably on behalf of almost every District Attorney's Office in the state. Q. And doctor, evenin this court earlier last year you testified -- and I apologize when T used the term "for;" I -- I -- maybe it's just ignorance on my part -- but you testified at the request of Doug Mublder, (phonetic spelling) on behalf of your evaluation of Mrs. Castillo; is that right? A. Right; that's correct. Q. And it was your recommendation, in spite of the large amount of marijuana that she had possession of, that she was a good candidate for probation; is that right? A. Yes, sir; T did. Q. Dr. Grigson, you're also referred to in the legal community around the state as "Dr. Death;" is that right? A. Yes, sir; I have been referred to by that name. Q. And that has something to do with your evaluation of many of the persons who you are requested to evaluate, whether 95 Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 ‘Fee TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. it's with a hands-on evaluation or in a hypothetical situation; is that right? A. How it really came about is a result of testifying in death penalty cases. Q. Doctor, let me ask you, sir: When you make a determination that an individual -- a young person, 24 years of age -- is a sociopath and there is no way that that situation can or will be corrected, you are assuming that that person would not receive any help; is that right? A. Did you say four years of age? Q. Twenty-four; I'm sorry. Oh, 24 years of age. Q. Yes, sir. No. It would depend upon the type of behavior that they've been involved in. If it's been nonviolent, then they will burn out or change -- the literature says 35. I did a research thing with one of the judges and it appeared to be about 30 -- but those individuals that have reached, say 24 years of age that are involved in violent behavior, there is no pill, no medication, and there is no treatment process. There's no rehabilitation anywhere in the world that modifies their behavior. Q. Doctor, in your professional opinion, have you known anyone that at an early age -- in their 20s -- received 30 years, 35 years in the penitentiary, that again was released 96 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | REPRODUCED FROR THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 and committed sociopath behavior? Do you have someone's name in mind? A. No, sir; I don't. Q- So yours are strictly based on the material and not an actual recollection of your own; is that right? A, No; I've seen many people who received life sentence -- on murder, rape charge, or murder and robbery -~ who came back in, oh, eight years, twelve years ~~ I've seen some of them that have gone down five times for a life sentence that repeatedly committed the same type of behavior, whether it was rape or murder or armed robbery. Q. Generally, the same type is what they're relegated to? Yes, sir; that's true. MR. DUNN: Pass the witne: RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION + Your Honor. BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Dr. Grigson, is there such a thing, in your opinion, as a cycle of violence or a spiraling of violence? There's an ascending degree of violence that normally -- particularly when you're talking about your severe sociopath ~~ they, normally, don't start off killing one person or a dozen people; they usually start off with relatively lesser-aggressive violent behavior and then it slowly builds up to where it's becoming more and more severe 27 Bde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 Bi i eee ats 2B AIRES GS PRS TOME ERS. Ft hea heed ieee “REPRBQUGED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES That's normally what you call the ascending scale of violence. Q. Might that be exhibited by a person who committed crimes or committed acts of violence, at first, against animals, then against a family member, then, as might be characterized in this crime, the murder of his children? A. Oh, absolutely; yes, sir. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. DUNN: We don't have any more questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. DR. GRIGSON: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. JACKSON: May this witness be excused? THE COURT: Do you all need him? You're excused and you may leave when you get ready. Thank you, Doctor. DR. GRIGSON: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. JACKSON: The State rests its case-in-chief at the Penalty Phase, Your Honor. STATE RESTS THE COURT: Members of the jury panel, at this time we're going to take about 10. And remember the previous instruction. We'll get you back in shortly. (Recess was had; after which the following proceedings were had:) THE COURT: Bill, bring the panel in. 98. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 ar 22 23 24 25 (The jury entered the courtroom and the following proceedings were had:) THE COURT: ‘The jury panel is back in place. Call the -- the defendant may call its first witness. MR. MARTIN: We call Gene Willingham. THE COURT: Gene Willingham. MR. MARTIN: Gene Willingham. SHBRIFF'S DEPUTY: Gene Willingham. THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. Take your seat there in the witness chair. This witness was previously sworn. You may proceed. GENE WILLINGHAM was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier duly-sworn and reminded of that fact by the Court, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: TION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Gene, tell us your name, please. A. Gene Willingham. Q- And you are Todd Willingham's father; is that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. You're his natural father? A. Yes, sir. Q. And where do you live now, Mr. Willingham? 99 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED. FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 og ane: SSS RUE NR NE SS eae A. Seven eleven Ash Street, Northeast, in Ardmore, Q. How long have you lived there? A. Probably 23 years, 24. Q. What kind of work do you do? A. I'm self-employed. Q. And how are you self-employed? A. have a salvage yard. Automobile salvage yard. @. And did you raise Todd? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did he grow up there in Oklahoma? A. I've raised him since he was 13 months old. Q. What kind of difficulties has he had in his teenage years? A. Todd liked bicycles, mostly. He'd trade wheels with kids, you know. And -~ and several times they've had him up there for receiving stolen property, which the -~ the wheels was stolen, and stuff. Q. Did you know and realize that he was addicted to paint? A. I finally found that out; yes. Q. And did you know that, during his teenage years he sniffed paint on almost a daily basis? A. No. Q. Did you recognize-- 100 Rde J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court an ) 10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 pene NS Ss eiaat WGN ‘HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Not until—— 2 - pardon? A. I'd say not until he was probably 16 -- 15 or 16 years old. Q. But then you found out and ~~ and knew? A. Yes. growing up, Q. And did you recognize in him, as he wi the dramatic changes in his personality that resulted from his addiction? A. Yes. Q. Did that lead him on the life of theft and other A. T'@ say yes. Q. Was there anything you could do? A. I started seeking help, and then my wife and T both went to Al-Anon -- Al-Anon and stuff like that, to see, you know, what we could do for him. But finally -- I turned him in once, I think. Q. And did you help him to get into a treatment program? A. Yes. Q. Did you encourage him to seek treatment? A. Yes; I did. Q. Did he obviously need treatment for the addiction? A. Well, he kept saying he didn't, but I thought that he aid. 201 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1s 20 2a 22 23 25 Q. Now, how old was he when he left home? A. When he left home? Q. Yes, sir. A. Are you talking about marriage or ~~ or left home completely? Q. When did he leave home completely? A. When he married stacy. Q. And that's his first and only marriage? A. Yes. Q. Were you around he and Stacy and the children? A. Quite a bit. Q. And how frequently were you in their home or they in your home? A. I've been going -- it's a hundred and seventy-two miles from here home. We try to visit maybe once or twice a month, anyway. And he'd come down there. They visited us more, really, more than we visited up here. Q. You're aware, no doubt, of the criminal cases that have been filed against Todd? A. Yes; I am. Q. The arrests -- the times that he's been arrested? A. Yes, sir. Q. You're familiar with all of that and you recognize that? A. I have the records at home; yes, sir. 102 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. I assume that you don't condone that activity on his part? A. I don't understand that question. @- You don't hold with it, you don't think it's right; are you against it? A. ‘That —- that he -- that he did ‘en? Q. That's right. A. No; that's not right. Q. And did you try to discipline him as -- as best you could there at home? A. Yes; I did. Q. and did his addiction to paint prevent you from being able to control him? A. It dia. Q. Did there come a time when it seemed that he had broken his addiction? A. After -- well, he was on probation for one of the -~ I -~ I believe it was -~ I don't -- I don't remem -- remember whether it was from the bicycle that he had taken off Someone's porch or -- but, anyway, he was on probation. And he was over at Wal-Mart and he stole a four dollar and sixty-eight cent roll of film. And Judge Bebee (phonetic spelling) revolted (sic) his probation. And we went up there and we agreed that it would be the best to send him to a Boot Camp. And -- it's a Boot Camp sort of place. It's a-— 103 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. Right. A. --drug -- kind of a drug rehabilitation center. and right now I can't think of the name of it, but I -- I know it. And-- Q. At any rate, he went there for some period of time; is that correct? A. Yes. He was sentenced for a hundred and twenty days. I think he spent approximately eight months there. He stayed, after his sentence, for a sixty day course in drug rehabilitation. Q. You're aware that certain witnesses have testified that Stacy told them that Todd beat her on -~ on occasions? A. Well, I didn't hear ‘em in here. Q. But aid you know that? Have you heard about it; did you? A. Yes; T have. @. Okay. You recognize people have made that allegation? A. No; not really. Q. Well, I'll tell you that people have testified in here in front of this jury that that's happened. And also they have testified that Todd beat Stacy in an attempt to make her have an abortion when she was pregnant. Did you know that? A. No. 104 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROW THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. Did you ever see any of that kind of conduct? A. No, sir. @. Did you ever hear him say that that's what he wanted to do? A. No. Q. Did you ever see Stacy at a time when she looked like she had been beat up? A. Not really. Q. Stacy has told us; and perhaps you recognize that they have had physical fights in the past. Did you know that? A. I -- I don't know about fighting or anything. I know they wrestled and hit around on each other. Q. But have you ever seen it? A. No, sir. Q. Did you see Todd with your grandchildren? A. Yes; I have. Q. Did you ever see him abuse the children or mistreat then? A. No, sir. Q. You recognize that the -- the jury, of course, has found him guilty of capital murder; you know that; do you not? A. Yes; yes, I do. Q. And that the jury will next consider the punishment to be imposed. It will either be life in prison or death by injection. Do you recognize that? 105 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court a2 RGPRODUGED FROM THE MOLENGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 20 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Yes. Q. One of the questions that we anticipate the jury will answer is whether, taking into consideration the evidence the jury has heard, that there are circumstances in the defendant's character or background or other mitigating circumstances that would compel them to give Todd a life sentence, instead of a death sentence. Do you understand what I'm saying? A. Well, he's got a choice of looking at life or death. And what-- Q. That right. and that the jury can consider just about anything that -- that they believe mitigates one way or the other. A. Yes. Q. And our effort here is to convince them to give him life in prison, instead of death by injection. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. And so, I'm asking you now: As his father, do you believe that in his background and in his character and personality, there are circumstances that mitigate for giving him life in prison, instead of the death penalty? A. Yes. Q. Do you believe that, not the least of which, is his young age? 106 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS 5: 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1s 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. I don't -- there again -~ go at it again. @. All right. He's 24 years old. A. I don't hear too good. I'm having-- Q. 1°11 try to speak loudly enough for you to hear. Is he 24 years old? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you request the jury to take that into consideration in assessing his punishment? A. No. Q. You don't? A, I'd -- I'd suggest that the jury take into consideration that his last years, the kind of guy, and he's improved. Q. And how has he done so? A. Well, as far as T know, since he came back from Fort Supply -- that's where they sent him to his eight months treatment and stuff there -- that he's been, with the other children and stuff, he's been one of the happiest persons that I know. Q. Based upon what you know about him A. Yes, sir. Q. --do you believe that there is a probability that he'll commit criminal acts of violence in the future? A. No. He never has done anything violent. Q. Well, Mr. Willingham, as his father, are you 107 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 as a9 20 an 22 23 24 25 REPRODOCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. requesting the jury to spare his life and give him life in prison, instead of death by injection? A. | Yes; T am. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mr. Willingham, have you heard that since he got back from Fort Supply, he's been convicted of burglary, he's beat his wife, he's threatened to kill people, and he's burned up his kids? Have you considered that? A. I've heard about the one of ~~ well, it wasn't really burglary, to me; ;I mean, it was possession of stolen property. His wife's cousin gave him some wheels, I think; and, come to find out -- anyway, he was going to buy them off of them; and, come to find out, they were stolen; and they come out and got ‘em. Q. Your son has always had an excuse for his conduct; hasn't he? He's always had an excuse for being in trouble; hasn't he, Mr. Willingham? A. Not really. That's how come he's been -- been up there so many times. If you'll ask him, he'll tell you. You don't have to-- Q. He's always denied that he needed help; didn't he? A. T'@ -- I'd say yes to that. Q.. He's had every chance in the world to straighten his 108 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 12 10 an 32 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i ORES So eR aN OEE A Mou bis OF Te TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES ia life out; hasn't he, Mr. Willingham, since he was a kid? A. Well-~ Q. He has; hasn't he? A, --since he was a kid? Q. Yes, sir. A. I'd say, after that accident and since he went -- got out of that Fort Supply; yes. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witne: MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Bugena (phonetic spelling) Willingham. THE COURT: Mrs. Willingham, you were sworn the other day; were you not? MRS. WILLINGHAM: (Nodded affirmatively.) THE COURT: Take your seat, please. BUGENA WILLINGHAM was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn and reminded of that fact by the Court, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mrs. Willingham, tell us your name, please, ma‘an. A. ,fugena Willingham. Q. And you're married to Gene Willingham; are you not? 109 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 12 ‘REPRODUCED PRON The HOLBWGS OF THE TEXAS STATE: VES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. married? aA. Q. A. Q. A Yes. And you are the stepmother of Todd Willinghan? Yes. And how long have you and Gene Willingham been ‘Twenty-four years. And during that period of time, did you raise Todd? yes. And how long was he in your home? He was 13 months old when we got him; and he lived with us until he was about 20. a. aA Q. And have you been a mother to him? Yes. And raised him through school, taken care of him when he was sick? aA a. addicted aA. a. aA a. A Q. Yes. And did you care for him during the time he was 3 to paint and he was breaking the law? Yes. Lay awake at night-- Yes. --heartbroken, worried about him? Yes. Mrs. Willingham, the jury is going to consider whether there is a probability that he will commit acts of 110 Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED PROI The NOLDWGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 32 2 violence in the future. Do you understand that? 7) 2 AL Yes. 3 9. Can you give us your opinion, based upon your having 4 | raised him-- 5 AL Yes. 6 Q. --whether you believe there's such a probability? 7 A. He was never“violent toward me or any of my family, : a | even when he was high on paint. He was always very humble and 9 | sorry. And he needed help, but that's back -- and it was 1989 Z 10 | before he finally completed a -- the -~ a program -- com ~~ 11 | you know, completed one. 12 Q. What kind of person was he when he was not high on 2 13° | paint? 5d A, He was always hyper and very talkative, cheerful. 15 @. Was he respectful to you? 16 AL Yes. 7 Q. Obedient to you? 18 AL Yes. 19 @. Now, you recognize, do you not, that the jury has 20 found him guilty of the crime of which he was accused? a AL Yes. 22 @. Do you believe that there are some mitigating 23 | circumstances that might persuade the jury to give him the 24 | penalty of life in prison, rather than death? 25 AL Yes. aan Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 12 13 “REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE AACHWES. 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 Q. Can you tell us, as his mother, what those circumstances would be? Why should the jury give him life, instead of death? A. He's not a violent person. Q. You've never seen him be violent? A. No; not toward me or my husband or-~ Q. Or in your presence? A. =-or to animals or to my bro -- my son. Q. Now there has been testimony in this case that he has killed a dog, that he's beat Stacy--his wife--and that he's had -- that he's made threats of death against people. Did you know about any of that? A. I've -~ I've heard that he and Stacy fought, but T never did see them fight. I didn't know he'd ever killed a dog. We have six dogs. He used to sneak cats in his room; and -- and he wanted to keep them as pets. And I -- I just never thought of him, you know, being abusive to anything like that. Q. You know, of course, about his criminal history? A. Yes. Q. You recognize he's been arrested for stealing and breaking into houses and other things of that nature; do you not? A. Yes. He was usually high when that happened. @. Did he ever do that kind of thing when he wasn't 112 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Je 10 wa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 MOLDHAGS- OF Pe PEXAS STATE BRCHIVE: A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Did you recognize that his addiction to paint affected his personality and mentality? AL Yes. Q. Did he seem to you to have a low mentality during the course of his addiction? A. Yes. It -- it slowed his maturity. Your brain doesn't mature as fast as it should. Q. And does he seem to you to be an exceptionally immature 24-year-old person? A. Yes. Q. And during this time that he was addicted to paint and committing these crimes -- when he was 16 and 18 -- were his -- the people he ran with, like, 10 years old and 12 years 014? A. ‘They were younger. Q. Would you say that, during that period of time and even now, he has a mentality of an immature adolesent, basically? A. Sometimes. Q. As the woman who raised him, are you requesting the jury to give him life in prison, instead of the death penalty? A. Yes. MR, MARTIN: Pass the witness. 113 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 13 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 aa 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mrs. Willingham, my name is John Jackson; I'm the Prosecutor in this case, and I -- I need to ask, do you ~~ do you have any children of your own, Mrs. Willingham? A. I have one son, 31. Q. Mrs. Willingham, if someone had killed your son as an infant, what do you think would be an appropriate punishment? A. Well, that didn't happen, so I -~ it would be under certain circumstances. And I ~~ I want you to know I don't think Todd did this. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. call your next witness, Mr. Martin. MR. MARTIN: Colisa Porter. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn the other day? MS. PORTER: No. ‘THE COURT ise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: ‘Take your seat in the witness chair. 114 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPRODUCED: FMOW THE MOLDMIGS OF THE TEXAS STATE BACH 20 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 was called as a witness by the Defense, COLTSA PORTER and having been earlier sworn, was reminded of that fact by the Court, and was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: ma'am? a Q. A Q. Mrs. Porter, would you tell us your name, please, Name's Colisa Porter. And where do you live? At Colleyville, Texas. And, Mrs. Porter, you are Todd's natural mother; is that correct? A. a. teenaged A Q. him? Q. Yes, sir. He was raised by his father during his early life and years; is that right? Yes, sir. And then when did you first become reacquainted with The Last of December of 87. And how did that occur? He called me. Did he come to see Yes, sir. And have you visited with him on a regular basis 115 Ede 3. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court « REPROBUEED PROd THE HOLBINGS GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Soe eee ae Tee _ since that time? A. Yes; until he moved to Corsicana, and then I got to see him about every three or four months. @. And did you come down here? Did he go up there on regular occasions? A. He'd come to Gainesville, when I still lived in Gainesville, to see me. And then when I moved to -- around the Fort Worth area, I'd come down to see him. Q. Did he bring his family with him? A. When I was in Gainesville; yes. Q. Stacy and the three children? A. And Amber. ‘They come by with the twins once, T think, when I was still there. @. And have you seen Todd and Amber together on frequent occasions? A. Yes, sir. Q. And how was he with the children when you saw him? A. Always good; a loving father, just -- in my opinion. Q. Did you ever see him abuse them? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever see him abuse Stacy? A. No, sir. Q. There's been testimony about -~ the witnesses have testified that Stacy told them that he beat her up on sone occasions and, at one time, tried to force an abortion. Did 116 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a a2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25, 71 Se er Rant OE Ai wet wied kaae you know anything about that? AL No. Q. Ever heard that before? A. No. Q. Based upon what you've seen his relationship to be with his wife and children, do you think that occurred or not? A. I never witnessed any of that, no. Q. Was he ever abusive toward any of then? A. Not to my knowledge; not that I seen. Q. And prior to the death of the children, you were here most recently in November of last year? A. In November. Q. You and your daughter? A. Yes. Q- You went to their home? A. Yes. Q. And Todd was there by himself, taking care of the children? A. Him and the children were there. Q. And how did he treat them and respond to them at that time? A. Well, him and Amber was in the living room, watching TV, eating, and the twins were asleep. Q. And how did he treat Amber? A. Oh, sweet. 147 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25, Q. Did she seem to be afraid of him? A. No, sir. Q. The jury will be asked to consider whether there is a probability that Todd will commit acts of violence in the future. What is your opinion about that question? A. I don't think he's a violent man. I've never seen him violent. Q. The jury will also be asked to consider whether there are mitigating circumstances that might persuade them to give him life in prison, instead of the death penalty. Do you believe there are such circumstances? A. I don't think he needs to be put to death. Q. For example, his young age; would you suggest that to the jurors? A. I don't understand that question. @. Well, he's only 24 years old; is he not? A. That's right. Q. Have you recognized that he is exceptionally immature for a person of that age, or do you think he is? A. I don't know that I would say that he is immature Q. Did you know his-- A. --for 24. Q. Pardon me? A. For 24 years old, I wouldn't say he's immature. Q. Dia you know him or were you around him when he was 418 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court © 14 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 addicted to paint? AL No. Q. You didn't become reacquainted with him until after that time? A. If he had that problem, T never -- I had no knowledge of it. Q. Are you asking the jury, as his mother, to spare his life and not give him the death penalty? AL Yes. Q. And are you requesting of them that they give him life in the penitentiary, instead of death? AL Yes. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. cros: NAT: BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mrs. Porter, my name is John Jackson; I'm the state's attorney in this case. I believe you said you'd never seen Todd commit acts of violence; is that correct? A. have not witnessed that; no. Q@. And you've never seen any crime he's committed; have you? AL sir? Q. You've never seen any crime he's committed; have you? A. Wo. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. 119 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court BOS Sane weet SCRE: REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ai 1 MR. MARTIN: No further questions. ) a ‘THE COURT: You may step down. 3 MR. DUNN: May this witness be excused, Your 4 | Honor, and remain in the courtroon? 5 MR. JACKSON: TI have no objection. 6 THE COURT: Mrs. Porter, you're excused, and you 7 | may remain in the courtroom or you can go outside, whatever 8 | you like. 9 MRS. PORTER: Okay. 10 MR. MARTIN: Yvette Crozier (phonetic spellings). 11 | crozier, Yvette. 32 THE COURT: Come forward. You were not sworn the - 13 | other day; were you? , 4 MS. CROZIER: No, sir. 15 THE COURT: Raise your right hand. 16 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) a7 THE COURT: Take your seat, please. 18 YVETTE CROZIER 19 | was called as a witness by Defense; and being sworn to tell 20 | the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was 21 | examined and testified as follows, to wit: 22 DIRECT EXAMINATION 23 | BY MR. MARTIN 24 Q. Mrs. Crozier, would you tell us your name, please, 25 | ma'an? 120 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED ARON THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 @. a. Q. Yvette Crozier. And where do you live? Marietta, Oklahoma. Colisa Porter, who just testified, is your mother; is that correct? aA. Yes, sir. And you are Todd's sister? Yes. How long have you known him? I've actually known him four years. We weren't raised together. a. aA. And how did you become to be reacquainted with him? He contacted my mother when she lived in Gainesville; and we all got together; and it was just like he was always there. a He just fit right in. Did you have a close relationship with him the last four years? aA. Q. Yes. Did you have occasion to be around Todd and Stacy and their three children? A. Yes. Q. And were you with them as recently as -- before their deaths -- in November of last year? A. Yes; about the first week. of November. @. Tell us how Todd treated his family at the time you 121 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE. 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 were there with then. A. The last time I was there, Stacy was working and Todd was there by himself with them. And it was -- it was at night; he had the kids down for a nap; and my mother and I and my three children had come to visit. We wanted to just come in and get the babies and hold them, and -- and he had them on a schedule, and he wouldn't let us wake them up. They were down for their naps, so we had to wait until their time. and-— Q. Did Amber seem to be afraid of him? A. Oh, yes -- no; she was not afraid of him. She was glad to see us; and she was happy and playing with my children. And-- Q. Did they appear to be well-cared for? A. Yes. Q. Have you ever seen him commit acts of violence toward anybody? A. No. Q. Okay. Has he ever, in your presence, abused Stacy or the children in any way? A. Not in my presence. Q. Witnesses have testified that he's beat Stacy, in the past. Have you ever seen any of that or heard anyone talk about it? A. No, sir. 122 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODOCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 ua 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Q. Are you familiar with the fact that he has a criminal history, and know about it? Ay Some; I'm not sure about all of the things. Q. Did you know that he spent many years addicted to paint sniffing? A. I didn't know what, but drug abuse; I didn't know what kind. Q. Do you believe, based upon knowing him for the amount of time that you have, that he has a probability to commit acts of violence in the future? A. No, sir. Q. Has he ever committed an act of violence in your presence, at all, ma'am? A. No. Q. Did he seem to have a close relationship with Amber? A. Yes. Q. Did they appear to be friends, to you? A. Oh, she just loved him, She'd crawl all over him. She just loved her daddy. They all did. They were all happy children. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMTNATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mrs. Crozier, my name is John Jackson; I'm Assistant District Attorney here in Navarro County. You're saying 123 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 14 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you've known your brother for about four years; is that correct? A. Yes, sir. @. You say you have never seen him commit an act of violence; that's also correct? A. No. Q. assume that, had you been asked to testify about the probability that he would commit crimes of violence in the future, -- if you ~~ if you'd been asked that four years ago, I assume your answer would have been the same, that you didn't believe that he would commit acts of violence? A. Yes; that's right. Q. But do you understand that he has committed acts of violence now? A. I don't know, myself, that he has Q. Well-- A. I don't believe that he has. MR. Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Christina Brown. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn the other day? MS. BROWN: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Take your seat, please. 124 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court PEPROS 3 PRON THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25, CHRISTINA BROWN was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing follows, to wit: but the truth, was examined and testified DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mrs. Brown, would you tell us your name, please? A. Christina Brown. Q. And where do you live? A. In Corsicana. Q. How long have you lived here? A. About 21 years. Q. And do you know Todd and Stacy Willinghan? A. Yes; T do. @. How long have you known them? A. About three years. Q. Are you friends of theirs? A. Yes, sir. Q. You've been in their home before? A. Yes, sir. Q. They've been in yours? A. Yes, sir. Q. You've done things together socially? A. Yes, sir. @. Have you been in Todd's home when he was taking care 125 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 14 REPRODUEED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 of the children and Stacy was gone? A. Yes, sir. Q- Would you describe for us what you saw, how he treated them when you were there? A. He treated them fine. He played with them; he fed them; he played with them; he was great with them. Q. Did they have a good relationship? A. Yes. Q. Did the children appear to be afraid of him? AL No. Q. Were he and Amber particularly close, that you could tell? A. Yes. Q. Have you ever seen him commit an act of violence in your presence? AL No. Q. Has he ever done anything violent towards Stacy or one of the children? A. No. Q. Witnesses have testified that Stacy said that he ~ he beat her on some occasions, that they had physical fights. Were you aware of any of that? A. No; I never seen it. Q. Witnesses have testified that he's threatened to kill people. Did you ever hear anything like that? 126 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 15 RE ROODES Prot rie NoeBials Gr Fa Pts STATE ARCHIVES 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 AL No. Q- So, around you, did he appear to be a peaceable and loving father? A. Yes. Q. There is testimony about a rather lengthy criminal history. Did you know any of that? A. No. Q. And in spite of the fact that that exists, does that change your impression of -- of your experience with him and his family? AL No. Q. Do you think that he has a probability to commit acts of violence in the future? A. No. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS BXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Ms. Brown, my name is John Jackson; I'm the Prosecutor in this case. Mr. Martin asked you a question about Todd's criminal history and you said you weren't aware of it; is that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. have a list of his criminal history that would take me about five minutes to read off; and I could ask you if you've heard about any of those, but is there anything I could 127 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPRODUED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 a3 24 25 read that would change your opinion of Cameron Todd Willingham? A. No. Q. All right. Now, you're acquainted with his wife, Stacy; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And surely you must have been acquainted with the black eyes and the bruises that she was given on a regular basis while she lived here in Corsicana. A. ‘I've never seen that. Q. You never saw any black eyes? A. No. Q. You never saw any bruises? A. To the best of my knowledge, I never seen ‘en. Q. I believe you're Teddy Brown's wife; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Teddy Brown was with Todd shortly after the babies burned up; that's when -- that's when that Todd and Teddy were having a party, with the boom box out in the yard. Were you there on that occasion, Mrs. Brown? A. I don't recall. It was -- they had a party? or -~ no; I don't recall that. MR. JACKSON: I believe I'll pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. 128 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 15 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 chair. MR. MARTIN: Ted Brown, THE COURT: Were you sworn the other day? MR. BROWN: Yes. THE COURT: Okay; take your seat in the witness TED BROWN was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT_EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: a. aA. Mr. Brown, will you tell us your name; please, sir? Ted Brown. And where do you live? One nine ~~ one thousand one West 9th. In Corsicana? Yes. How long have you lived here? About four months. Do you know Todd and Stacy Willingham? Yes. How long have you known them? About two years. And are they social friends? Yes. 129 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS GF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 1 Q. You've been in their house and they've been in your a house? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Have you been around Todd and -~ and with his wife 5 and his kids? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. How did he treat them and how did they respond to 8 him? 9 A. Well, just -- he treated them good. 10 Q. Did you ever see him commit any acts of violence aa toward them? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you ever see he and Stacy fight? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And did the children appear to be afraid of him? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Were they well-cared for? 18 A. Yes. 19 @. Do you believe that there's a probability that he'll 20 commit acts of violence in the future? an A. No. 22 Q. Todd has a criminal history, which we've heard from 23 other witnesses. Were you familiar with any of that? 24 A. No. 25 Q. There's been some testimony that Stacy told people 130 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court aie el sie ahs Se i eS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an a2 23 2a 25 that he had physically abused her in the past. Did you know any of that? No. Q. In spite of those things, does it change your impression of what you saw when you were around him? MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMTNATTON BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Teddy, how long have you lived in Corsicana? A. Twenty-one years Q. Teddy, would you agree with me that in -- among the law enforcement comnunity of Navarro County, your reputation is that of a thief and a liar? MR. DUNN: Your Honor, we object; improper impeachment. MR. JACKSON: I'm just asking the question, Your Honor. THE COURT: I sustain; restate your question, Mr. Jackson. MR. DUNN: Your Honor, may we have an instruction to disregard? (No reply.) Q. Teddy, did you go out to the MR. MARTIN: One -- one moment. MR. DUNN: May we have a ruling, Your Honor? 131 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 15 1 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AEPRGOUEED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES THE COURT: The jury is instructed to disregard it. MR. MARTIN: We move for a Mistrial. THE COURT: Motion denied. Q. Teddy, you were out at the house after the babies burned up, playing the boom box so loud it vibrated the walls through the neighborhood; is that right? A. No. @. You weren't playing it that loud; right? A. I wasn't -- I wasn't playing my radio. Q. Well, you weren't playing it after the neighbors came off -~ came out and looked at you; right? A. I wasn't playing it, period. Q. The radio wasn't playing, huh? A. No. Q. I guess somebody must have been lying about that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Ted, you were at the hospital after the children diea? A. Yes. Q. And what was -- what was Todd acting like then? 132 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court te Teas STATE ARCHIVES. — RemmebueeD 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Crying. Q. Was he obviously upset and distraught? A. Yes. MR. BY MR. JACKSON: MARTIN: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS_EXAMINATION Q. Were you there when Todd and Stacy switched the urine specimens? AL No. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Sherrie Cooley (phonetic spellings). THE COURT: Come foward, please. Were you sworn the other day? Ms. THE COOLEY: No; I wasn't. COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) COURT: Take your seat. 133 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Bae See fee ween ae: THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: was called as a witness by the Defense: tell the examined SHERRIE COOLEY and being sworn to truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT_EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: ma‘an? Q. the past AL Q. Ardmore? aA. Q. AL Ms. Cooley, would you tell us your name, please, Sherrie Cooley. And where do you live? Ardmore, Oklahom: How long have you known Todd Willinghan? Seven years. And how aid you first meet hin? Through my husband. and were he and your husband friends in the past? yes. Have you been around Todd on some regular basis for seven years? Yes. For some period of -~ of that time, did you live in Yes. Well, has he been in your home before? Plenty of times. 134 Bde 3. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 16 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 ep taiie diy memes angie 5 TES SIS PO MR OSS Event eee ae FEPRODGCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCAIES @. And did you know him when he had the paint addiction? A. Yes; I dia. Q. And was he seriously addicted to paint? AL Yes. Q. And did he exhibit serious and noticeable personality disorders as a result of it? A. No. Q. Do you think it had any effect on him? A. Some. Q. You've been around he and his wife and his children? AL Yes. Q. Has he ever been violent toward them in your presence? A. No. Q. And has he ever kept your children for you? A. Yes. Q. And would you be afraid for him to do so today? A. No. Q. You know that the jury has convicted him of capital murder; do you not? A. Yes. Q. But, based on your experiences with him, would you be afraid for him to keep your children? A. No; I would not. Q. Have you ever seen him commit any acts of violence 135 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court mean na THE HOLDINGS. 10 ua 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 pn A gael ees THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES toward anybody? A. No. Q. And how did he treat his children and his wife in your presence? A. Wonderful. Q. Was he ever abusive toward them? A. No. Q. And did you know that he has a criminal history? AL Yes. Q. And did you know that witnesses have testified that Stacy said he had beat her in the past? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever see any of that? A. No. Q. Ever see any marks on Stacy to indicate that- A. No. Q. --she'd been beaten? Do you think that Toda Willingham has a probability for committing acts of violence in the future? A. No; I don't. : Pass the witness. MR. MARTI ROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. How long have you known Todd? A. Seven years. 136 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 16 ae TE Ti 5 RED SSS SE AS Ol eee ie sinned REPRODUCED FROM THE MOLEINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 Q. I'm assuming that if somebody had asked you that ques -- same question--is there a probability that he'll commit acts of violence in the future--if they'd asked you that seven years ago, you'd probably have said the same thing. Would that be a true~ A. Seven years ago? Q- Yes, ma'am. A. No; I would not of (sic)i Q. What would you have said seven years ago? A. That I didn't want him in my house. Q. Well, he's always been a hoodlum; hasn't he? A. Yeah; up until the last three and a half years. Q. The last three and a half years. Have you heard, during that last three and a half years, that he's been convicted of burglary, that he's threatened to kill people, that he's -- and that he's beat his wife? A. No; I have not. I just heard that he was convicted of a burglary -~ or, not a burglary, stealing some film from Wal-Mart. if -- if you had known Q. All right. Knowing those or understood those things, would that have changed your opinion here today, Ms. Cooley? A. If I thought they were true, maybe. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. be Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mrs. Cooley, were you at a Thanksgiving dinner last year, where Todd was there? A. No; I wasn't. He came to my house on Thanksgiving, and for two days after that, he would cone and visit us. Q. Did he have the children with him? A. Yes; he dia. Q. Was Stacy there? A. No; she wasn't. Q. Was he taking care of the children by himself? A. Yes; he was. Q. Did he appear to you to be an attentive father and properly care for then? A. Yes. Q. Did the children seem to be clean and well-fed and well-clothed? A. Yes. Q. Did they show any signs of being afraid of him? A. No. Q. And you attended Todd and Stacy's marriage? AL Yes. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. MR. JACKSON: I have no further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. 138 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 1 MR. MARTIN: Mike Cooley. 2 THE COURT: Come forward. Were you sworn the 3 other day? 4 MR. COOLEY: No. 5 THE COURT: Raise your hand. 6 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) 7 THE COURT: ‘Take your seat. 8 MIKE COOLEY 9 was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to 10 tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was a examined and testified as follows, to wit: 12 DIRECT EXAMINATION 13 BY MR. MARTIN: 14 @. Mr. Cooley, would you tell us your name, please? 15 A. Mike Cooley. 16 Q. And where do you live’ 17 A. Ardmore, Oklahoma. 18 Q. Your wife was Sherrie Cooley, that just testified? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. How long have you known Todd Willinghan? aa A. ‘Ten or twelve years. 22 Q. And have you been around his wife and -- and children 23 on occasion? 24 A. On occasion. 25 Q. And has he ever been violent toward his wife or 139 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ae 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 1s 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. Has Stacy ever shown any signs of having been beaten up, that you've seen? A. No. Q. Do you recall when Sta -- when Todd moved back to Ardmore in August of last year? Yeah; I do. Do you remember conversations with him about missing his wife and family? A. Yes, sir. Q. And did he tell you that? A. Yes; he did. Did he tell you that was the reason he moved back down here? A. Yeah; yeah. Q. And did he seem to you he sincerely missed his wife and kids? A. To me, yes. Q. Did you know him when he had -- was addicted to paint sniffing? A. Yeah; I've knew (sic) him -- yeah. Q. And did he have a serious addiction to paint sniffing? A. He did it, you know. 140 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF OF ie Ts STE HIVES. 16 1 Q. Did Todd talk to you about wanting to marry Stacy ) a when he came back down here? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Did he express to you that he wanted to marry her and 5 | never wanted to be separated from them again? 6 A. Yeah. . 7 MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. 8 CROSS _BXAMINATION 9 BY MR. JACKSON: ; 10 Q. Do you have any children, Mr. Cooley? a AL Yes. 12 Q. How many do you have? ~ 13 A. Four. , a4 @. What ages are they? : 15 A. Ten, six, four ana three. 16 @. What do you feel would be an appropriate punishment 7 for someone who killed those children? \ 18 A. Depends on the circumstances. I mean, if somebody 19 deliberately killed them, you know. 20 Q. What do you think? 21 A. I don't. 2a Q. If somebody deliberately killed them, Mr. Cooley, is : 23 there anything that would be too bad for that person? _ 26 A. I -~ T don't know. 25 MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. 141] i Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 42 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 BY MR. MARTI Q aA. Q. A a. A Q. a. Q. brought the twins to Ardmore? A. a. A know. a. A. Q. A Q. RE-DIRECT_ EXAMINATION Has Todd ever babysat for your kids? Yes, sir. And do you remember his reaction when Amber was born? Yeah; I do. And what was it? He was totally excited, you know, real happy. And how about when the twine were born? The same. Do you remember the first time that Todd and Stacy Yes. And how did he act? Real happy; they seemed real happy together, you And did Todd take care of then? Yes, sir. Was he an attentive father? Yeah. Did the children appear happy and-~ Yeah. --love him and want to be around him? Yeah. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. —i42J Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court a7 te cae ce a A OS MN OES OSes Nene ‘REPROQUEED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 1 RE-CROSS EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. JACKSON: 3 Q. Mr. Cooley, did Todd ever do any crimes around you? 4 A. No. 5 Q. People usually keep their crimes as private as 6 possible; don't they? 7 A. Ub-huh. a MR. JACKSON: Pass -- pass the witness. 9 MR. MARTIN: No further questions. 10 THE COURT: You may step down. chy MR. MARTIN: Monte Willingham. 12 THE COURT: Were you sworn the other day? 13 MR. WILLINGHAM: Do what? 14 THE COURT: Were you sworn the other day? 15 MR. WILLINGHAM: No. 16 THE COURT: Raise your right hand. a7 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) 18 THE COURT: Take your seat. 19 MONTE WILLINGHAM 20 was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to 2a tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was 22 examined and testified as follows, to wit: 23 DIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. MARTIN: 25 Q. Mr. Willingham, would you tell us your name, please? 143 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED PROM THE HOLBINES OF THE ios STATE ARCHIVES A. Monte Willingham. Q. And where do you live? A. Lonegrove, Oklahoma. Q. And is Gene Willingham your father? AL Yes. Q. And is Todd Willingham your brother? A. Yes. Q. Was Todd -~ Todd and you raised in the same hone? AL No. Q. How long have you known him? A. Since he was probably three years old. Q. And have you been around him frequently since that time? A. Yes; off and on. Q. And did you know that he had a serious paint addiction in his teenage years? A. Yes. Q. And you recognize, of course, that he has a criminal history? A. Yes. Q. Has he ever committed any acts of violence in your presence? A. No. Q. Have you been around him and Stacy and the kids on more than one occasion? 144 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 a5 eS BA URE Fhe wna Nee OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES A. Yes. Q. And how has he treated his wife and family when you've seen hin? A. He's always treated them fine. Q. And did he take care of the children? AL Yes. Q. Did they exhibit any fear of him? a. No. Q. Was Todd working for you when he moved back down here in August? AL Yes. Q. And did he tell you why he was coming back down here? A. To stay with his kids and get a job and-- Q. Did he tell you that he missed the kids and wanted to be around then? AL Yes. Q. Do you think he has a probability of committing acts of violence in the future? AL No. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mr. Willingham, have you always thought that same thing, that there was no probability that he would commit acts of violence? 145 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court a7 LY 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 28 AL Yes. Q. Do you understand the evidence shows here that he has committed acts of violence; do you not? A. No; I didn't know. Q. If the evidence had shown that, would it change your opinion, Mr. Willingham? A. No. Q. Okay. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-DIRECT BXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Did he talk about his kids a lot when you all worked together? A. Yes; he did. @. Did he appear to you to love his children and be interested in then? A. Do what, now? @. Did he appear to you to love his children and to be interested in their welfare? A. Yes, sir. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. MR. JACKSON: T don't have any questions. THE COURT: You may step down. WR. MARTIN: Carla Petty. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn 146 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 17 10 aa 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES the other day? MS. PETTY: No. THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. CARLA PETTY was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mrs. Petty, would you tell us your name, please, My name is Carla Petty. And where do you live? Ardmore, Oklahoma. Are you related to Todd Willingham? Yes; I am his first cousin. And how long have you known hin? All my life. And have you been around him on a frequent bas Yes. Did you know him during the period of time when he was addicted to paint? AL Yes; I did. 147 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 17 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 a4 25 rN 28. @. Do you recognize that it was a serious problem for nin? A. Yes. Q. Did you recognize the -- the effect it had on his personality and his character? A. No; not really. Q. Did you know that he has a criminal history? A. Yes; I did. Q. And are you familiar with the fact that witnesses have said that Stacy told them that he beat her in the past? A. No. @. Did you ever see any violence like that between them? A. Never. Q. Did you ever see him mistreat his wife or his kids in any way? A. No. Q. What kind of a father was he? A. Very good father. He -- the first time I saw him with Amber, I had never seen a man so proud of his children. He was parading her around and holding her. And, as far as I'm concerned, he had never held a baby, but he was holding her like an old pro and he was showing her to everybody. And my family all lived on one street, and he was just going down the street, he was so proud of her. Q. And did the children appear to love him? 148. Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 a a ME TYE SSR TOMS Ftieefteewl meee Ute THE HOLbINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. AL Yes. 0. Wore thoy afraid of hin? AL No. Q. Were you at the Thanksgiving dinner last November? A. No; T was not. Q. Do you -- do you live in Ardmore; did you tell me that? A. Yes; I live in Ardmore, but I was at my in-laws at that time. Q. And -~ and how many years have you known Todd? A. All of my life -- I don't -- 22 years, I guess. @. Do you believe that he has a -- a probability of committing acts of violence in the future? A. No; never. He wouldn't hurt anyone, ever. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. You don't -~ you don't believe that Todd Willingham committed this crime; do you? A. He is not capable of murdering or hurting anybody. @. Do you think he's capable of threatening to kill anybody? AL No. Q. You wouldn't believe that he committed this crime even if you saw him do it; would you, ma'am? 149 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. If I saw him do it -- if I thought for a moment he had anything to do with this, I would be on your side and I would be testifying against him. T have a daughter the same age as the twins, and I would trust him with her right now. Q. I guess about the same way thet his wife trusted him; is that right? A. I mean, how can you learn to trust? I trust him. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witne: MR. MARTIN: No further questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You -- you may step down. MR. MARTIN: Troy Petty. THE COURT: Hold it just a minute, Bill. John, let me visit with you all. Go ahead. (an off-the-record bench conference was had; after which the following occurred:) THE COURT: Members of the jury panel, we're going to take about a 10-minute recess. (Recess was had; after which the following occurred:) THE COURT: Bring the panel in, Bill. (The jury entered the courtroom and the following proceedings were had: THE COURT: Call your next -- call your next 150 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court a eas FS ORS WARE CONS Fete wae Rae (Sealants ross te ncals 6 HE Fos STATE ARCHIVES j jar 1 | witness. ” ) 2 MR. MARTIN: Christopher Brown. 3 THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn 4 the other day? 5 MR. BROWN: No, sir. 6 THE COURT: Raise your right hand. 7 (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) 8 THE COURT: Take your seat. 9 MR. DUNN: Your Honor, may we approach the 10 bench-~ aa THE COURT: All right. * 12 MR. DUNN: ~-just a moment? 13 THE COURT: All right. 14 (The following discussion was made of ) record outside the hearing of the jury:) 15 16 MR. DUNN: We were busy and I forgot to ask you. a7 Can all the witnesses that have testified in our case in this 18 Punishment Hearing come back in here? We were through with 19 them, and we had forgot that Mr. Willingham and some of the 20 others-- an MR. JACKSON: It doesn't matter to me. 22 MR. DUNN: --you-~ 23 MR. BRISTOL: Yeah; but the Sheriff's 24 Department-— 25 THE COURT: Just-~ ~ 151 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 a4 25 ‘REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE AACHWES (After which the following was within the hearing of all:) THE COURT: --just proceed, Mr. Martin. CHRISTOPHER ALAN BROWN was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT_BXANTNATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mr. Brown, tell us your name, please. A. Christopher Alan (phonetic spelling) Brown. Q. And where do you live? A. Ardmore, Oklahoma. @. And how are you employed? A. I work at the Ardmore Fire Department. Q. And are you related to Todd Willinghan? A. I'm married to his aunt. @. How long have you known him? A. About six years. Q. And have you been around him and his wife and his kids? A. A little bit. Q. Been around him and his other family members? A. Some; yes. @. Have you ever seen him exhibit any violent behavior? 152 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Fees arieeees eecrikd ices ce, RSE Er re aes NEB. oa "REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ANGHIVES 10 4 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 25 A. No, sir. Q. The periods of time that you did see him, was he an attentive father and cared for his children and treated his family appropriately? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did his wife and children appear to love him and respond to him in a way that you would expect? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever see any acts of violence between he and his wife, Stacy? A. No, sir. Q. Based upon what you know about him, do you think that he has a probability to commit acts of violence in the future? A. No, sir. @. You're familiar, are you not, with the fact that he has a criminal history? AL Ub-~ Q. Have you heard that? A. Yes; I have heard that. Q. Because it's a fact. A. Yes. Q. You were there at Thanksgiving last year when he was there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And did he come up with the children, without stacy? 153 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he take care of all of them in ~~ in a way you believe that he should? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did they appear well-fed and healthy and happy? A. Yes, sir. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. GROSS EXAMINATION BY NR. JACKSON: Q- Mr. Brown, upon what do you base your opinion that the defendant is not a violent person? A I've just never seen him or -- act violent or heard him say anything that made me believe he would be violent. 2 You won't expect him to commit acts of violence in front of family members; would you? AL No, sir. Q. You have not been present during the commission of any of his crimes; have you? AL No, sir. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Linda Brown. Linda. THE COURT: Cone forward. Mrs. Brown, were you sworn the other day? 154 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 at 1a 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ar 22 23 24 25 x STS OE AGES TES PS oniewt wiena ieee! "REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE: stared HES. MS. BROWN: No; I wasn't. THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. LINDA BROWN was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Would you tell us your name, please, ma'am? A. Linda Brown. Q. And where do you live? A. Ardmore, Oklahoma. Q. Are you related to Todd? AL Yes; I am. Q. How so? A. I'm his aunt. Q. And how long have you known him? A. ‘Twenty-three years. Q. Have you been around him all of his life, basically? A. Yes. Q. Did you know him at a time when he had the addiction to sniffing paint? AL Yes. 155. Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court f} | REPROOWERD PRON THE MOL Dunas OF the TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 a2 23 24 28 Q. And did you notice an effect on his personality and character resulting from that? A. No. Q. Do you know he had a criminal history? A. I've been told. Q. Have you been around him and -- with his wife and his kids in the past? A. I've been around him and his kids. Q. And how did he treat his children when you were around him? A. He treated them real well. @. And how -- when -- when was the most recent time that you were around him and his children? A. Last Thanksgiving. Q. And did he bring them up there to Ardmore by himself? A. Yes; he did. Q. And did he take care of them in an appropriate manner? A. Yes. The -~ the twins had little pink dresses and Little white shoes and Amber had a little pink pant suit on. And when he got there, we was all thrilled to see him; and we had just finished dinner, so he got there a little bit late. And so I took Kameron and Eugena took Karmon; and we was going to feed ‘em. And Todd came into the kitchen and he told us that Kameron had more teeth, that she could eat bigger bites 156 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Saat a eg ROSS SSE RE TE Pi eves Ri-RODOEED Paci mie nous OF te TAS STATE A 10 aa 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 a4 28 than Karmon. Q. And so it appeared to you that he was an attentive father to then? A. Yes. Q. And knew them very well? A. Yes. Q. And were they clean and well-fed? AL Yes. Q. Did Amber appear to be afraid of him in any way? A. Oh, no, She was crazy about hin. Q. And was he the same way toward her? A. Oh, he talked about -- about his children all the time. Q. Have you ever seen him commit any act of violence in your presence? A. No. @. Based upon your knowing him for these 23 years, do you believe he has a probability to commit acts of violence in the future? A. No. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Would you believe that he's committed acts of violence in the past, ma'am? 157 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. Would you believe that he beat his wife and that he killed a dog and that he threatened to kill people? Would you believe any of those things? A. No. Q. Would you agree with officers from Ardmore and Gainesville and Corsicana, that his reputation for being peaceful and law-abiding citizen is bad? A. No. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witnes: MR. DUNN: We have no other questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Cindy Preston. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Were you sworn in the other day? MS. PRESTON: No. THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: ‘Take your seat, please. 158 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 18 19 a A SS es NaNe UES Pea wnagae ee “REPROOUGED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF Tue TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 1a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 a5 crm! STON, was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to tell the examined truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: ma'am? aA Q. family? A. Q. Mrs. Preston, would you tell us your name, please, Cindy Preston. And where do you live? Ardmore, Oklahoma. Are you related to Todd Willingham? He's my husband's nephew. And how long have you known him? Fifteen years. And do you know Stacy and the children? Yes. And have you been around Todd when he was with his Yes. Have you ever seen him commit any acts of violence toward them? A Q. way? No; I sure haven't. Has he ever mistreated the children or Stacy in any 159 Bde a. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ie REPRODNGED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 — A. No; he loved his children. Q. And was it obvious to you that he loved his children? A. Yes. Very. Q. And did they appear to love him, as well? A. Yes; they did; they loved him to death. Q. Were you there last Thanksgiving when he came up there by himself with the children? A. I sure was. Q. And how were they dressed and cared for? A. ‘They were beautiful, perfect, healthy, and they -~ they loved him. @. Do you believe, based on the length of time that you've known Todd and what you know about him, that he has a probability to commit acts of violence in the future? A. No; I sure don't. Q. Did you know that he had a criminal history? A. Well, yes, but not really, no. Q. All right. A. Tt was, just, you know, what I've been told. Q. And did you know that people have reported that Stacy told them that Todd had beat her in the past? A. I don't know anything about that. Q. Have you ever -- ever seen any marks or injuries to Stacy, that would indicate that she had been beaten? A. No. 160 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 SS URE TST IA TF tial ered I ~ HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS_EXAMINATTION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mrs. Preston, my name is John Jackson; I'm the Prosecutor in this case. You would not expect a person to exhibit violent behavior around his family, generally; would you? A. Well, T don't know. I would think that you would see some signs if you thought he was mistreating his children. Q. Did you ever see any signs that he mistreated his wite or his girlfriends? A. No; I sure didn't. @. You never saw them with any bruises or-- AL No. Q. --black eyes or anything like that? Had you ever been to his house in Corsicana? A. No. Q. So you never saw the art work about the skulls and the fire demons and things of that nature; did you? A. No. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTTI Q. Do you remember last Easter, when Todd was up there with Amber? 164 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 12 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 ‘REPRBDUEED Pak THe Nou bonS OF ThE TEXAS STATE ANCHWES A. Yes. Q. And how did they respond to one another there? A. He -~ he loved her and she loved him; and she was happy. All of those babies were happy. And I could not ever see one incident that he mistreated those children. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS_BXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: @. Do you have children, ma'am? A. T have three Q. What ages are they? A. Ten, seven and three. @. Can you imagine a crime any more horrible than killing children? A. No; T cannot. Q. What do you believe is an appropriate punishment for someone who has killed his children? A. Tf someone did kill their children and it was proven that they killed those children without a doubt, I would think that's what they deserved, but he did not. I don't see that it -- that it was proven. Q. You'd -- you'd think what is what they deserved? A, If they killed their children and someone seen it and it was proven that they killed that child, then they deserve to die. But it -- I don't see that that has happened. 162 Ede J, Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 19 1 10 a 12 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 ‘REPRODOEED PROW THE NOLES OF ThE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. Q. You don't believe Todd is guilty; do you? A. No; I do not. Q. There's nothing in the world that can convince you that Todd is guilty; is there? A, No; I don't see any evidence to prove. Nobody - nobody knows that. All -- you know, you're asking me ~~ you asked me if I think he did it, but are you not sure? are you -~ you know, you ask that, but do you have a question in your mind still? That's what I wonder. I just don't understand. Q. What you're telling me is that, if nobody saw it, you can't prove it. A. If -- well, no; because there was no witnesses. How could you say, you know ~~ if that happened to my family and someone accused me of that, well, I mean, I can -- I can understand. And he says he did not do it, and I do not believe that he did. Q. So that-- A. He loved then. Q. So that is what you're telling me: If there's no witnesses and nobody sees you do it, it’s not against the law? A. No; I didn't say that. 1 said you have to have beyond a doubt. Q. Uh-huh. A. But there are doubts. And I see doubts everywhere; 163 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 19 ~ Repnbontes raat rs 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 He Se eee a TSN ete edd Seed OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES and I don't ~~ I do not see that you could -- that I could sit and say that he did it without a doubt. Q. You couldn't see it under any circumstances, with Todd; could you? A. Anybody; not just because Todd; anybody. I love children. And I love all children; and I would not want anything to come to harm them or anything. And I think that it's wrong to accuse somebody just because they was there. I don't think it's right. Q. You don't believe the witnesses who testified that Toda tried to kill his children before they were even born; do you? A. I didn't hear that. I don't know anything about that. Q. If somebody said that, I assume you -- you'd feel that's a lie? A. If it -- well if -- yeah; people say things. If somebody doesn't like somebody, they're going to say a lot of things. You can -- you know, I feel the way I feel and that's just the way I feel. @. Why do you think so many people have said so many bad things about Cameron Todd Willingham? A. don't know. 1 guess because they don't like him. You know, you -- you get something, you want to put it on somebody and you want to make ‘em believe it. dust -- just -- 164 Rde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Se a EN oe POEL ANE OEY Foden winked iD FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. it's got to be somebody did it. Somebody did it. Q. 9 Why do you~ A. You know? Q. Why do you suppose, ma'am, that people from Ardmore, to Gainesville, to Corsicana have said the same thing about Todd, that he's an outlaw? A. Well, I don't know anything about that. All I'm telling you is from what I know and the way I feel about it and when I've been around him; and that's just the way I feel. MR. JACKSON: 1'11 pass the witness. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Cindy, is your feeling and opinion based upon the ~~ what you know about Todd, in your experiences, when you were around him? AL Yes. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. MR. JACKSON: No questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Gerald Preston. ‘THE COURT: Come forward. Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. 165 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 20 10 an 12 13 a4 15 16 a7 18 19 20 an 22 a3 24 25 GERALD PRESTON was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Mr. Preston, would you tell us your name, please, A. Yes. Gerald Preston. Q. And where do you live? A. Ardmore, Oklahoma. Q. Are you related to Todd Willingham? A. Yes. Q. How are you related to him? A. He's my nephew. Q. And how long have you known him? A. Twenty-three years. Q. Have you been around him on a frequent basis during that period of time? A. Yeah. Q. And have you been around him when he had his wife and his kids with him? A. Yes. Q. Have you ever seen him commit any acts of violence toward his wife or his kids? 166 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No. Q. How did he treat his children? A. Good. Q. And did his children appear to be well-clothed and fed and happy children? A. Yes. Q- Did you ever see him act violent toward his wife, at all? A. No. Q. Did you know him during the period of time that he was addicted to paint sniffing? AL Yes. Q. And did he have a serious addiction to paint sniffing? A. Well, I don't know; you know, just hear: I didn’ t-- Q. And you're familiar with the fact that he does have a criminal history? Did you know that? A. Yeah; I don't actually know it, but 1-~ Q. You've been tola-- A. Yeah. Q. --that that's the case. And witnesses have testified that Stacy had told them in the past that he had beat her. Do you have any knowledge of any of that? A. No. 167 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 a4 25 Q. Did you ever see any marks on Stacy, indicating that she had been beaten? A. No. Q. Do you believe that Todd has the probability of committing acts of violence in the future? A A. No. f MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mr. Preston, you said that you've never seen Todd Willingham commit an act of violence; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. dust because you're saying this, that doesn't mean that he has not committed acts of violence; does it? A. Yeah; but it means T haven't ever seen him nor heard of it, so-- Q. Tt doesn't mean it didn’t happen, though; is that right? A. Well, that's what you're saying, but-~ Q. Do you agree or disagree with me? A. Well, I don't think he did it, you know, so-- Q. You couldn't think that -- you couldn't -- you couldn't conceive of Cameron Todd Willingham killing his children, under any circumstances; could you? A. No. 168 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. Have you had the opportunity to listen to the evidence in this case, Mr. Preston? A. dust the Closing Arguments. Q. Do you understand that this jury has found him guilty of that offense? You understand that? A. Yeah. @. You have not heard any evidence and you disagree with their verdict; is that correct? A. Well, I heard -- I heard some of the evidence, with the closing, you know, so-~ @. Nonetheless, you disagree with what the jury has found? A. Yeah. Q. Because you just don't think Todd Willingham would do something like that? A. Yeah. Q. Would you characterize Todd Willingham as a manipulative kind of person? A. No. @. People who have been manipulated don't always recognize that; do they? A. I don't know. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions.. THE COURT: You may step down. 169 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 right hand. BY NR. MARTI Rde 3. MR. MARTIN: Betty Mason. SHERIFF'S DEPUTY: Betty~ MR. MARTTI Mason. THE COURT: Come forward, please. Raise your Were you sworn? MS. MASON: (Nodded affirmatively.) THE COURT: Okay; take your seat. BETTY MASON was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT. EXAMINATION Mrs. Mason, would you tell me your name, please? Betty Mason. And where do you live? Ardmore. Are you related to Todd Willingham? How are you related to hin? I'm his aunt. And how long have you known hin? ‘Dwenty-three years. Have you been around him on a frequent basis during that period of time? 170 Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 a. kids? cr a. aL left. Raster. Q. around? Almost every holiday. And have you been around he and his wife and his Yes. When was the most recent time you've been with them? I guess it was -- I was there Thanksgiving, but I had So the most recent when I have seen them together was And how did he treat his children when you were He loved his children. And: He got out and hunted eggs with his children-~ --because they loved hin-~ --just like a kid. --because they loved hin? They loved him dearly. And you could tell that? You can tell they loved him. Did you ever see him commit any act of violence his toward children? A I have never seen him commit any acts of violence towards. anyone. a Do you believe there's a probability that he would commit acts of violence in the future? 171 Bde J. Swain, Official court Reporter, 13th District Court 20 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 A. No; Ido not. and Todd did not do this. I mean, 1 have known him for 23 years and Todd did not do this. Q. And is your opinion about this based on being around him and talking to him-- A. I have been with him for 23 years-~ Q. --and knowing him? a. and he could be my own son. And he did not do this. I've got two boys; and I know that they would not do anything like this; and Todd did not do this. Now, Todd might have been in this house when it burnt down, but I could have been in that house when it burnt down. Anybody could have been in that house when it burnt down. And they would have said the same thing about them, I guess. Because that's the only crime that Todd hae is that he was in that house when it burnt down. Q. ‘Thank you. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS_EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Mrs. Mason, when did you see Toad? A. When did T see Todd? Q. Yes, ma'am; how often did you see him? A. We had a family get-together at every holiday--Mother's Day, Father's Day, Christmas-~and they lived in the same town. 172 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court - REPRODOCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ANCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. Did you ever see him -~ did you visit him in Corsicana? A. No. Q. | Did you have an opportunity to see what his relationship and -- and -~ with Stacy was like? A. I have seen him with Stacy -- Stacy on two or three different occasions. He came up several times without Stacy. Stacy worked. Q- Do you understand that he committed acts of violence against Stacy? A. I don’t know where (sic) I would call it violence. I know that they argued; you know how kids are these days; they're not like we were when we were younger. We ~~ you know, we @idn't say much, either; but I never did see him act any violence at all towards Stacy; no. Q. What do you call violence, Mrs. Mason? A. I call violence with -- where you yell at somebody, scream at ‘em, slap ‘em, hit ‘em; that's violence. Q. Would -- would it surprise you to know that witnesses have said that that's what Todd was guilty of toward his wife? A. Yes; that would surprise me, yes. Q. Tf that were true, would it tend to change your attitude about Todd? A. No; it would not. @. So you don't care if he's violent or not, Your ~ 173 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court eC 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 your attitude is-- A. I think that anybody can argue and fight with someone. You know, you ~~ you ~~ you probably have screamed at your children, but you don't really -- you scream at the people that you love, but that doesn't mean that you're violent towards them. @. Do you scream at people you love, ma'am? A. I may be guilty of, maybe not screaming, but raising my voice on occasions, too. Q. Have you ever hit anybody you love? No. Now, I would spank my children. If that's called hitting, yes, I would spank my children. Q. Are you married, ma'am? A. I am divorced, for the last seven years. Q. Your husband ever hit you? A. No; and I never hit my husband. Q. Seems awful strange when people get into a relationship like that; doesn't it, where they hit each other and abuse-~ A. No; it doesn't seem strange, not today. I mean, you see it all the time. You see it on TV and that's what makes people do thiligs like this, I guess, is TV; brings that's the way they act on TV. @. So you're ready to accept a certain level of violence in marital life; is that right? 174 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ere Se SPELT Ue rity apeet RS, B. b PROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS S' 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, in a way. I think that it goes on in a lot of marriage life and people just don't know about it. Q. It's just something we take for granted; isn't it? A. No; I didn't say you take it for granted. 1 just said that I think it does go, but we just, you know. Q. Would it surprise you that witnesses have testified that Todd tried to kill his children before they were ever born? A. Todd didn't do that; yes, it would surprise me. @. So anybody who said that would just be lying? A. Well, I would think so; yes. @. And you brand these people liars before you ever hear ‘em or know ‘em or are acquainted with ‘em; is that right? A. Well, if they was to say that; yes. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Your Honor, before we call the next witness, during the testimony of our witnesses, I have heard from the gallery of people laughing or making other noises, and we'd ask that the Court instruct the people in the gallery not to do so. For example, during the testimony of that witness, I heard two people from this side making laughing noises, and we would request the Court instruct them not to do so. 175 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an a2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 a4 25 ES THE COURT: I have -~ I did not hear them, Mr. Martin. But I want to say this: That if there is anything like that going on, the Deputy is instructed to remove them from the courtroom, if it happens. MR. MARTIN: Doug Mason. THE COURT: Come forward, please, sir. Were you sworn the other day? MR. MASON: Yes, sir; I was. THE COURT: Okay; take your seat. DOUG MASON was called as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: @. Would you tell us your name, please, sir? A. Doug Mason. Q. And where do you live, Mr. Mason? A. Ardmore, Oklahoma. Q. Are you related to Todd Willingham? A. Yes, sir; I am. Q. How so? A. He's my cousin. @. And how long have you known him? A. All my life. 176 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court Oe aN Sw REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. 1 Q. a A 3 Q. 4 5 A 6 Q 7 seen him 8 a 9 Q. 10 A. a Q. 12 A 13 Q. 14 A 15 Q. 16 children 17 aA. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 aA. 24 a. 25 them? Have you been around him on a frequent basis? Not in the past five or six years. How frequently have you seen him during that period Holidays, get-togethers -- family get-togethers. And at those holidays and get-togethers, have you with his kids? Yes; I have. And how did he treat them? With affection. And did they treat him in the same way? Definitely. Have you ever seen him commit any act of violence? Definitely not. Or talk in a violent manner about his wife or or anyone else? Never. Do you believe that there's a probability that he would commit acts violence in the future? No. Have you heard him express his love and affection for his children and his wife? Yes; yes, I have. Did his children appear well-cared for when you saw 177 Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 0 REPRGOGEED PROM THE HOLDINGS OF The TEXAS STATE ARCAIVES: 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 A. Very well-cared for. Q. Have you ever seen any marks or bruises on Stacy that would indicate she had been beaten? A. No. Q. Now, did you know that Todd had a criminal history? A. dust hearsay. Q. Did you know that he had a paint addiction during his teenage years? A. Yes. Q. And did you see him during that period of time? A. Not really. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Why is it, Mr. Mason, that you haven't seen him in the past few years? A. I've been in college and he's been down here. Q. You told the -- you told the Court, you told the jury that you didn't think he would commit acts of violence in the future; is that right? A. (Nodded affirmatively.) Q. Certainly, you've heard about the acts of violence he's committed in the past, though; have you not? A. What acts of violence? Q. Well, I guess, primarily, would be the testimony 178 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Mii about how he tried to kill his children before they were ever born, by trying to -~ by beating his wife, to cause a miscarriage. The acts of violence that were directed at beating a dog to death. A. I've never heard any of that. Q. Acts of violence that were characterized by his threatening -- threatening to kill people here in Corsicana. You've never heard of that? A. Never. Q. If you had heard about those things, Mr. Mason, would it change your attitude about this defendant? A, I wouldn't believe it. Q. It's inconceivable to you that Todd Willingham has committed this crime that he's been convicted of today; is that right? A. I don't believe it. @. And there are no circumstances which would allow you to believe that he's guilty of that crime? A. No. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Polly Gooden. THE COURT: Were you sworn the other day? MS. GOODEN: No; I was not. 1739 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | | | 1 ) 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 nous OF Hie esas STATE ARRIVES THE COURT: Raise your right hand. (Prospective witness was duly-sworn.) THE COURT: Take your seat. PATRICTA_GOODEN was called as a witness by the Defense; and being sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Ms. Gooden, would you tell us your name, please, ma'am? A. My name is Patricia Gooden. Q. And where do you live? A. I live in Ardmore, Oklahoma. @. You can pull that microphone over, if it's more comfortable. A. ‘Thank you. Q. And how are you employed? A. I'ma staff attorney with Legal Aid of Western Oklahoma. Q. And prior to that time, how were you employed? A. I was at -- are you talking about the time that I became acquainted with Todd? @. Before you were @ lawyer, what did you do? A. Iwas a social worker. 180 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ia eer eee er 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25, Q. And was that there in Ardmore? A. Both in Oklahoma City and in Ardmore. Q. And is that how you came to know Todd? A. Yes; yes, sir. Q. When -- when did you first meet hin? A. I believe it was in the Fall of 1986. Q. And what were the circumstance: A. I was assigned Todd's case. I was, at the tine, employed with a subdivision of the Department of Human Services. I did juvenile probation and parole services, and I was assigned his case for pro -- pro ~~ probation. Q. And you know, of course, about his criminal history; do you not? A. I am aware of his criminal history as a juvenile @. And do you know about his addiction to paint sniffing? AL Yes; T do. Q. Would you tell us what you know about that? How serious it was, what effect it had on him, and so forth. A. Todd had a very serious drug abuse problem; primarily with inhalant abuse, paint sniffing. He was placed in different treatment facilities; and, in each treatment facility, he would fail. ‘There were a combination of factors that made him fail. one of them was his inability to really understand what was going on in the treatment center. He 181 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 "REPRERUGED Reow THe NduNGS OF THe TEXAS STATE. Ea TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. didn't have the cognitive skills to appreciate what they were trying to do with him. Because he was a minor when we first started working with him, many of the treatment centers could not ~- they really couldn't help him because they went so fast. It's like working with a child who's learning disabled. You -- the entire group is going much faster than he was and he -- he just really could not appreciate what was going on, so he would fail and he would be kicked out of that treatment center. That went on at least twice before he became 18. At that time, he was placed in another treatment center, and again he failed. Q. Does he have a low mentality? A. I don't know that he was ever tested by a psychologist. My guess is that-~ MR. JACKSON: I'd object to guesses, Your Honor. That's-- THE COURT: TI sustain the objection. Q. Well, if you would, tell us whether you have an opinion, based upon your experience as his caseworker for a long period of time. A. Yes; I do. Todd physically appears very socially well-adjusted. I mean, he has good social skills. He can talk with people; he makes them feel that he understands and that he's their equal. But, in fact, his abilities are much less. If you talk with him and you ask him a question, a lot 182 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 of times he will give you an answer back that is -- is very rote. And if you ask him to explain the answer he just gave you, he can't. He doesn't have the ability to analyze the answer he just gave you. Q. Brom your observations of him, do you have an opinion about whether his paint sniffing addiction affected him mentally? A. I really cannot form that opinion. I think that the impact of inhalant abuse often shows up years and years later. And since I lost contact with him approximately in 1987, I -- and -- and have had very limited time to talk with him since, I really can't -~ I don't have an opinion. Q. During the period of time that you knew him and were around him frequently, did he ever exhibit any violent tendencies? A. Absolutely not. Q. Do you think he has a probability of committing acts of violence in the future? A. I would have never thought that probable; and I haven't heard the testimony here today or yesterday or the day before. I -- I can't say. @. In your experience with him, was he not violent? A. He was never violent, sir, WR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. 183 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court “ REPRODUGED FROM THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: @. Ms. Gooden, my name is John Jackson; I'm the State Prosecutor here in Corsicana. I believe you testified that, in your experience, he was not violent; is that correct? A. ‘That's correct. Q. But you're unaware of his history during the past few years; is that also correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. In the course of this trial, witnesses have testified that he attempted to kill his children before they were born by beating his wife in an attempt to induce a miscarriage. They testified that he beat a dog to death. They've testified that he threatened to kill several people. That would be a departure from -~ from your ~~ your comprehension and your understanding of the Todd Willingham you knew; is that correct? A. I would have thought that improbable, sir. Q. You understand that he has an extensive adult criminal history; do you not? A. I am not aware of his adult criminal history. Q. Had you the ability to hear this testimony about his violent acts and about his criminal history, might it change your opinion about whether he would be -- he would be a continuing threat, as far as violence is concerned? 184 Ede 3. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court re | ReeaeUe 2 HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at a2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 a3 24 25 That's very speculative; and I ~~ I really don't have an opinion. Q. All right. In the course of your social work, have you heard mental health professionals talk about a concept called the -- an escalation of violence? That is, where people begin violent behavior by committing crimes or acts of a -- a lesser degree of violence and they escalate, as they get older, to crimes of greater and greater violence. Are you familiar with that concept? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you agree with that concept? A. That there are people out there who increasingly become violent? Q. Who become more violent. A. Yes; there are people like that. Usually they show some indication of violence earlier on. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Ms. Gooden, do you remember the last time you saw Todd when he came by your office? A. Yes; I do; that was last year. Q. Tell us about that, please. A. Todd had come by. He had also gone by and visited a judge; and she had let him know where I was working. He came 185 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 aa 23 24 25 TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. by. He came by, basically, to say, "I'm a dad; I'm happy; I have a job." He had pictures of his children with him and he was very proud of them. And, basically, I think he came to show off a little and let me know that he was okay. Q. And when was that? A. ‘That was last year. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. OSS_ EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Ms. Gooden, this -- this defendant has had very mai chances to rehabilitate himself; has he not? A. As a juvenile, he had several chances; yes. But again, I would caution you that many of those programs were not able to meet his needs. ny Q. So, basically, what you're saying is our system and our society is responsible for Todd Willingham's continued criminal behavior? A. I think that's a quantum leap that you're making; and, no, that is not what I'm testifying to. Q. What -- what is it you're testifying to, ma'am? A. I'm saying that, during the time that he was a juvenile, that he tried at least three drug programs, but none of them were able to meet his needs. Q. How do you feel about the death penalty, Ms. Gooden? A. personally don't believe in the death penalty. 186 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUGED FROW THE HOLDINGS OF The TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. You wouldn't have given the death penalty to Adolph Hitler; would you? A. I don't know. I -- I didn't -~ obviously, he didn’t go to trial, sir. Q. You just weren't there when he committed all those crimes that people say he did; is that correct? A. No; I wasn't there. MR. JACKSON: I'11 pass the witness. MR. MARTIN: No further questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. MS. GOODEN: Thank you. MR. MARTIN: We call Stacy Willingham. STACY WILLINGHAM was recalled as a witness by the Defense; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION, BY MR. MARTIN: Q- You -~ you're Stacy Willingham? A. Yes, I'm Stacy Willingham. Q. You're Stacy Willingham; and you've testified previously; correct? A. Yes. Q. Stacy, the accusation has been made by a witness that you told them that Todd beat you up when he found out you were 187 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BEPROOOCED FROM THE HOLEIES OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES pregnant and tried to make you to (sic) abort. Is that true? A. No. ‘Todd went to the doctor with me just about every time I was pregnant with them twins (sic). Q. And did the -- did the doctor ever tell you that he found some indication of you having been beaten? A. No. Q. How did Todd act when you had the sonogram done? A. He was excited; he thought one of them was a boy. And there was -- but we just -- they were both girls; and he just said, you know, “Well, they'll be just like Amber." Q. Was he happy about it? A. Yes. Q. Was he happy when you became pregnant with Amber? A. Yes. Q. And how did he act when the children were born? A. He was excited. He wasn't there when Amber was born, but he was when the twins were born. Q. And was he excited when you brought the babies home? A. Yes; he brought the twins -- we both brought the twins home. Q. Did he ever give you any indication that he didn't want the children or didn't like them or didn't want them? A. No; no. Q. Did he ever trade you Amber for a VCR? A. Do what? 188 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 a4 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 Q. Awitness has testified, Kimberly King testified that you told her that -- that you, more or less, traded Amber for a VCR and -- and that Todd said he got the better end of the deal. Do you remember anything like that? A. No. Q. Do you remember ever telling anybody that he had beat you up in an attempt to make you miscarry? A. No; I didn't. Q. And did he have a close relationship with his daughters? A. Yes; he did. Q. And when you worked, did he take care of then? A. Yes. Q. Did he teach Amber how to talk? Q. Did he bathe the children, change their diapers and feed then? A. Yes: and he also potty-trained Amber, too, for me. Q. Were you ever aware of any mistreatment by him toward the children? A. No. Q. and did he name the children? A. Yes; he named all three of them. Q. Witnesses have said that you have told them on numerous occasions that he's beat you; are you telling us that 189 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 1 a 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 EER le: that's not true? A. I -- Todd had -- no -- I mean, they know we've fought, but I have never set and said Todd's beat me numerous of times. (sic) I've never said that. Q. John Bailey testified that he heard a fight at your house one night, where he heard someone get hit and Todd say, "Get up, bitch." Do you remember anything-- A. No; I don't. Q. --like that? Ever happen, to your recollection? A. No, it -- no, it -- no, it didn't. WR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. CROSS_EXAMINATTON BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Stacy, your husband beat you up and you had two black eyes a week after the twins were born-- A. No; I didn't. Q. --that's right; isn't it? A. No; it's not. Q. You were getting over a black eye when you went to the hospital after your babies were burned up in a house? A. No; I wasn't. I have showed them a picture of me after this happened; and I did not have a black eye. Q. Why did Kim King lie about what you said? Ay T don't know. Q. Why did her mother, Karen King, lie about-— 190 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPROWCED THE MOL ENNGS-OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 A. I don't -- Q. --this whole thing? A. --I don't know. Q. Why did John Bailey lie about what happened at your house that night? A. I can't answer that; I don't know. Q. Where was Todd when Amber was born? A. He was in Fort Supply. Q. He was in prison? A. Well, yeah. Q. Todd always denied that he had any kind of a problem; @idn't he? A. No. Q. So -- I mean, what kind of rehabilitation was he going through? A. When he ~~ when he was going up -~ up to Fort Supply -- he had gotten sent off there -- IT mean, he'd, you know, write me and said that, you know, he liked being up there, it was helping him, and stuff. He never denied, you know, how -- he never had a problem with me. Not any kind of drug problem or anything like that, like you all are saying. Q. He never had a problem; did he? A. I'm not saying he didn't have a problem; but not when he met me; when I was with him; when we had our kids. Q. He never had a problem with paint? 191 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court "REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 ree a EINES OTE TEXAS STATE RACHIVES A. With -- yeah, he did have a problem with paint. Is that what you said? Yeah, he did. Q. He replaced that problem with dope; didn't he? A. Not when he was with me. Q. Not when he was with you? A. That's right. Q. He stayed away from you a lot, didn't he, even when you were married? A. No; not really. We -~ we had been separated several times, but he's always come back to us. Q. He even came back sometimes and brought his girlfriend with him; didn't he? A. No; he didn't. Q. The one who's paint you scratched off the side of her car that time? A. What do you mean, “brought his girlfriend"? 1 don't you asked me earlier about he brought understand that. You his girlfriend to my house. Q. Yes, ma'am; and you told me you scratched the paint off her car. A, It was at his house; we wasn't together. Q. Oh, excuse me. You're as deep into denial as your husband; aren't you, Stacy? A. What do you mean by that? MR. JACKSON: I'11 pass the witness. 192 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 y | REPRODUCED FAW THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Stacy, do you remember what the twins first word was? A. Daddy -- or, they said, "da-da.” @. And how did the children act when Todd came home from work when he was working? A. Bvery time either one of us would come home, they were always in their room or in the living room; when we opened the door, Amber always came first because she was walking. The twins, when they were crawling, they would crawl to us and sit there. We'd walk in the living room; we could get on the floor and they would just get on us. And most of the time we'd just sit in the floor with them because the twins did not know how to walk. @. And did Todd ever use drugs around you? A. No. @. And how long before the children's death did he stay home with them and take care of them? A. How -- could -- I don't understand that line. @. For what period of time did he stay home and take care of the kids while you worked? A. About a month and a half or two months, I'd say. Q. And did you come home and find them properly cared for? A. Yes. 193 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court * REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. REPRODUGED PROM Tiie HOLDWIGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. Clean and fed? A. Yes. Q. And what was the situation when you scratched the girl's paint on her car? A. What was the situation? @. Yes. Why did you do it? Where was the car? A. The car was at -~ Todd had an apartment here in Gainesville (sic); and I had went to the store, and I went over there and I seen her car. Q. Here in Corsicana? A. Yeah. And we weren't together. and, of course, it made me mad and -~ I mean, I scratched her car. Q. All right. And where was Todd when this happened? A. At my house, watching the kids. Q. Were you ever afraid to leave the children with hin? A. No. WR. MARTIN: Bde, what exhibit are we on? REPORTER: Twenty-nine. MR. MARTIN: For the Defense? REPORTER: Yes, sir. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 29 was marked for identification.) Q. Stacy, did you have a black eye at the children's funeral? 194 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 A. No. Q. Is Defendant's 29 a picture of you at the funeral? A. Yes. MR. MARTIN: We offer into evidence 29. MR. JACKSON: No objection. THE COURT: It's admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. 29, a picture of Stacy at funeral, was offered and admitted into evidence without objection.) MR. MARTIN: Excuse us a moment, Your Honor. THE COURT: Yes, sir. (wr. Martin conferring with defendant.) Q. Stacy, you went to the hospital to see the children and Todd after the fire? A. Yes. Q. How was Todd acting then? A. A cop took me up there; and when I walked in, I seen Todd in a room, and he was screaming and just -- I mean, just constantly screaming; and I didn't know what was going on. And then I tried to find my kids. Q. It has been suggested that you and he switched samples for a test. Did that occur? A. No. @. Did anybody ever take a sample from Todd in your presence? A. No. 195 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court ‘REPROOUGED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. he records reflect that the sample was taken about 5:15 and you got there around 6:00. Is that your recollection? A. Yes; I had gotten there later on that night. Because my brother and them had brought me up there, because I had been at my parent's house all day long. Q. We recognize what the jury's verdict is, but I want to ask you this: Based upon your experiences with Todd, your xved him treat relationship with him and the way that you ob: the children and the children treat him, did you believe that he had a -- a loving relationship with then? A. Yes. Q. Do you think that he would probably commit acts of violence in the future? A. No. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Do you believe he had a loving relationship with you? A. Yes; sometimes, I do. Q. Sometimes? A. We've had arguments, and we have been split up, but we've always been together. Q. You got to the hospital at 11:00 o'clock in the morning, Stacy; is that right: 196 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. --in the morning when the twins died? A. I -- I know, right after it happened, a cop came and got me and took me up there; and it was -- it was around that time. Q. TI believe, in an interview you gave, someone asked you about the violence, the fights; you said you thought it would get better; is that right? A. Whenever we'd -- whenever we'd blow up —~ before we splits up (sic), it seemed like we was arguing all the time, and stuff; we'd usually split up, you know. But then after we was away from each other for a while, it got, you know, things would turn -~ they would just -- as long as we got away from each other for a little while, you know, and just worked things out. Q. It's almost like you'd be drawn back together; is that right? A. Yes; I guess. It’ @. Are you familiar with that strange psychology that somehow draws battered spouses back together-- AL T was-— a. again to each other? A. I was not a battered wife like that. @. So the people who said that are just -- they're not telling the truth here in this court; are they? 197 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPRO kh se THE MOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES A. Okay, T don't like calling people liars, but I'm just telling you -- well, I don't know how to say it -- I mean-~ Q. Stacy-- A, --you know Q. --do you always just flow along the path of least resistance? Just whatever is easier for you to do? Is that what you do? A. No. Q. Why didn’t you leave Todd Willingham years ago? A. Because I loved him. Q. Through the beatings and the abuse, and the other women, and the paint, and the drugs? A. He only seen one person while he was with me. He'd left the hou: You know, he told me what was going on and -~ and he left. He did not beat me, like you all are saying that he dia. We had fights. You all keep saying this and I'm ~~ it's not true. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. How long would you stay apart, typically, when you separated? A. Well, between two to -- two weeks, to a month. Q. Short periods of time? A. Yes. 198 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District court 10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 HOLBINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES Q. And when you came to the hospital at 11:00, you stayed for some period of time, but then you left and returned in the evening? A. Yes; my parents took me to their house. (Mr. Martin conferring with defendant.) Q. After Todd left the home and -- because of the girlfriend, you got back togoether after that? A. Yes. Q. You reconciled and forgave each other? A. Uh-huh. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. FURTHER BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Your own parents were victims of family violence; weren't they? A. What do you mean? I mean, I don't understand what -- what you were saying. @. Your own mother was a victim of family violence; was she not? A. My mom-~ Q. What happened to your mother? A. --yes; she was. Q. What happened to her? A. Well, when I was younger, my mom -~ my dad was alcoholic and sometimes he would beat her, but-- 199 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 " BEPRODUGED PRON THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. Q. What happened to your mon? MR. MARTIN: We object to that as irrelevant. THE COURT: TI overrule the objection. Q. What happened to your mother? A. Nothing; my mother's over there. Nothing; my mom's here. (A lady in audience began talking.) MR. JACKSON: Quiet; please sit down. ‘THE COURT: You cannot talk in the courtroom. Okay? Q. That's your grandmother; is it not. MR. MARTIN: Your Honor, we object to this as -— as irrelevant and abusing the witness for no purpose, whatsoever. MR. JACKSON: I'm trying to establish a cycle of family violence, Your Honor. ‘MR. MARTIN: Well, this witness is not qualified to testify whether there is a cycle of family violence. and that's irrelevant. This lady is not on trial. THE COURT: Members of the jury panel, we're going to take about a 10-minute recess. You may step down. (Recess was had and the jury remained in the jury room while the following proceedings were had:) THE COURT: Did you want Mrs. Willingham to take 200 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THE TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES: 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 an 22 23 a4 25 the stand again? MR. JACKSON: I was under the impression you were going to-~ THE COURT: Well, I've got to get rid of the witness first. MR. JACKSON: Oh, okay; before we do that? THE COURT: Yeah. MR. JACKSON: Well, I was wanting to put her back on in front of the jury. THE COURT: Oh, okay; all right; go ahead and we'll take that up -- matter up, then, outside the presence of the jury, at this -~ at this time. WR. MARTIN: Now? THE COURT: Right now. MR. MARTIN: Okay. We call Todd Willingham. CAMERON TODD WILLINGHAM was called to the witness stand, being the defendant; and having been earlier sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows, to wit: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. Todd, you're the Todd Willingham that's testified previously in this case, outside the presence of the jury? A. Yes. 201 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court | REPROOUEED FRO The MOLBMES OF THE TEXAS STATE AHCHIVES 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Q. And you are the defendant in the case; is that correct? AL Yes. Q. And you recognize that we are now in the Punishment Stage of the trial? A. Yes. Q. And we have called a list of witnesses which you have provided; have we not? A. Yes. Q. And have we called the witnesses that you wanted us to call during this stage of the trial? A. Yes. Q. And do you recognize that we are at the point now where, if you elect to testify, now would be the time to do it? AL Yes. Q. And have Rob and I explained to you that you have the privilege of not testifying, if you don't want to? A. Yes. Q. But if you do want to testify, you can testify? A. Yes, sir. Q. And have we explained to you that, if you take the stand, you will be subject to the same rules that apply to any other witnesses? A. Yes. 202 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 Q. For example, you can be impeached, if there is any evidence that would impeach your testimony; did you know that? AL Yes. Q. And you recognize that you will be treated by the Prosecution like any other witness that would be called to the stand? A. Yes. Q. And knowing and understanding your right to testify, have you elected not to testify? A. Not to him, no. No-~ Q. what A. --no; T don't want to testify. THE COURT: Do what? I ~~ I didn't hear you. MR. WILLINGHAM: No. Q. The Court is most interested in being sure that your rights are guaranteed and protected and that you understand those; do you realize that? A. Yeah, in a way. @. That is why we call you to testify at these important pivotal points during the trial; do you know that? A. No; T don't understand that. @. Let me explain it to you this way: At each stage of the trial at which you could offer your own testimony, we call you to the stand to explain that so that the Court will know that we have told you that and that you understand your right 203 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to testify; do you recognize that fact? AL Yes. Q. I understand-- A. Yeah. Q. --and Mr. Dunn understands that you have told us that you do not wish to testify at this stage of the trial; is that correct? A. It's not that I don't wish to, but I don't feel a need to. Q. All right. and is it our understanding that you have elected not to, for whatever reason? A. Yes. MR. MARTIN: No further questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may step down. Bring the panel in, Bill. Mrs. -~ Mrs. Willingham. Stacy. MR. MARTIN: Stacy Willingham. THE COURT: Come forward and take your seat in the witness chair. Now bring the panel in, Bill. (The jury entered the courtroom and the following proceedings were had:) THE COURT: The jury panel is back in place. You may proceed, Mr. Jackson. 204 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (upon completion of this testimony, Mrs. Stacy Willingham took the witness stand again and the following occurred within the hearing of all:) FURTHER RE-CROSS EXAMINATION RESUMED BY MR. JACKSON: Q. Let me reask that question. What happened to your actual biological mother? A. She-- MR. MARTIN: We object to the question as being irrelevant. THE COURT: I overrule the objection. A. She was killed. Q. By your father; is that correct? AL No. Q. By her husbana? A. Yes. Q. With regard to the black eye that you had just before the -~ or -~ just -~ just before the children were killed, I believe you told Corsicana police officers that about two weeks before the fire Todd struck you in the face and had given you a black eye, but you had been telling everyone that one of the babies had hit you, causing the black eye; is that correct? A. Todd had slapped me. Q. Pardon? 205 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 25 A, Todd had slapped me. Q. And gave you the black eye two weeks before the children died? - it was a A. Tt was -- it was -- it wasn't a black -- it was black right there. MR. JACKSON: Pass the witness. MORE FURTHER RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MARTIN: Q. The pictures that were taken of you and Todd at K Mart, that have been offered and admitted into evidence; do you remember the ones I'm talking about? A. Yes. Q. ‘Those pictures were taken of you a week prior to the children's death; is that correct? AL Yes. Q. And if you had a black eye, would it be evident in those pictures? A. Yes. MR. MARTIN: Pass the witness. MR. JACKSON: No further questions. THE COURT: You may step down. MR. MARTIN: Your Honor, with Mr. Dunn, I have just discussed with Mr. Willingham our announcement to the Court, at this time, that we rest. DEFENSE RESTS 206 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 REPRODUCED FROM THE HOLDINGS OF THe TEXAS STATE ARCHIVES. THE COURT: All right, sir. Does the State have anything? MR. JACKSON: ‘The State would finally-close. STATE cLosEs THE COURT: Okay. Members of the jury panel, that concludes the evidence that you will receive in this :00 o'clock in the until case. We're going to be in rec morning. Basically, it will be, generally, like it was this morning. I'll read the Charge to you on the issue of punishment, the attorneys will have the right to make their closing remarks, and then you'll be ~~ at that time, you'll be sent back to the jury room to deliberate. So you'll kindly understand where we are in the morning. The coffee will be on at 8:30. Remember the previous instructions with reference to conversation amongst yourselves or with anyone else, and if anyone tries to talk to you about this case, you need to let me know about it at once. And everyone will remain in the courtroom until the jury panel is out of the courtroom. And you all may leave at this time. (The jury departed the courtroom to begin evening recess and the following occurred:) THE COURT: Okay; I want everyone to remain in the courtroom until the jury panel is completely out, and then I want you to remain in the courtroom a short time thereafter. 207 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 You all hold up just a minute. You all need to hold up just a minute. You all be sure there is not any jurors still outside. I also want everyone to remain in the courtroom until the defendant is outside the courtroom. I realize my mike, it's turned around, but you -- I want you all to remain in the courtroom until the defendant is out of the courtroom; okay? (Proceedings concluded on August 20, 1992, to resume in Volume XV on August 21, 1992.) 208 Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court — 10 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25, THE STATE OF TEXAS * COUNTY OF NAVARRO * I, Ede J. Swain, Official Court Reporter in and for the Thirteenth Judicial District Court of Navarro County, State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing contains a true and correct transcription of all proceedings had on the afternoon and early evening of August 20, 1992, in the above-styled and numbered cause, all of which occurred in open court and were reported by me. I further certify that this transcription of the record of the proceedings truly and correctly reflects the exhibits, if any, offered by the respective parties. WITWESS my hand this the 29th day-of October, ~ Ede J. Swain, OFRECTAL COURT REPORTER Thirteenth Judicial District Court PB. 0. Box 333 Corsicana, Texas 75151-0333 (903) 654-3022 Certificate Expires: 12/31/92 Taxable Cost: $586.50 (Orig. & 1 Copy) to be paid by Navarro County, Texas, due to indigency of defendant (209 pgs. at $2.50 per pg., 6 pgs. index at $10 per pg., 2 bindings at $2 ea.). 209 Bde J. Swain, Official Court Reporter, 13th District Court