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T his i s a .

b oo k of f a ct s —
f ac t s wh i ch no on e d ar e !

d i s put e, fo r Un cl e S am i s t h e aut h o r . T h e t es t imony


r eco r d e d in t h es e pages was t aken un d er o at h by of -

fic i al s o f th e U n it e d St at es go ve r n m e n t ; it wa s s ub
mit t e d t o t h e P r e s i d e n t of t h e Un it e d St at es ; it was t r an s
mit t e d b y him t o Co n gr es s an d by Con gr e s s or d er ed ,

pr in t ed . I t i s a r e velati o n o f r as c ali t y d e p r avi ty an d ,

d uplicit y— t h at a co un t s fo r it s g o in g"quickly out o f


p ri n t ; for t h o s e wh om it r e ve al s h ave m u ch t o c o n 1
-

ce al an d t h e co n t e n t s o f t h i s b o ok ar e a m o s t t e r r ific
,
.

i .

ar r a ig n m e n t o f R o m an i s m .

T h i s bo ok i s re p r int e d t o i n s t r u c t t h e Am e r ic an

pe o pl e in t h e mo r al Con d it i on of t h e F i li pi n o p e o pl e
aft e r c e n t u r i e s o f c o n t r o l an d t e a ch n g b y t h e R o m an
i
Cat h o li c ch u r ch Eve n as a t re e i s t o b e v alu ed an d
.

le s t ee m e d a c co r d in
g t o it s fr ui t s s o i s an yth i n g an d ,

e ve r yt hin g p ro pe r ly t es t e d an d wor t h y o f h on or o r d is
h o n o r acco r d in g t o w h at it p r o d uce s Ce n t uri e s o f
'

Ro mi s h t each in g an d abs o lut e c ont r ol pr o d uced t h e con


d i t i o n h e r ei n re v eal e d A n d t h e s ame po we r wh i ch d e
.

gr ad e d t h e F ili pin o p eo ple h as t h e efir o n t e r y t o in vad e


t h e U n i t ed at es wi t h t h e d ec l ar e d i n t e n t i o n f m akin g
fit o

Am er i ca Ca t h o li c, an d wi t h t h e pe r s i st en t as s e r t i o n t h at
Pr o t e s t an t Am e r ica i s a f ailur e .

B e fo r e we acc e p t t h e R om i s h
y o f a b e t t er s o ph 1 s t r

Amer i c a t o b e m ad e by p r i e s t s acco r d in g t o th e s pe ci
ficat i o n s o f Ro m e—v b e fo r e we ad m it t h e i r h os t i le d e c
“ ”
l ar at i o n s again s t th e G o d les s p ub li c s ch o o l —
b efor e
we ow th e
s wall b ait o f t h e Vat i can fis h er m an , l et us
s ee what: R ome h as d une

mt h e Ph i l ip p i n e Is l an d s l et
u s s ee wh at h er pa ro ch i al s ch ool s h ave p ro d uc e d an d,

wh at h e r p e c ul i ar d ogm as an d d o min at i o n h ave d o n e


_

wh e re t h ey h ave b e e n appl i e d .

T h e p roo f o f t h e pu d d i n g i s i n t h e e at i n g t h ereo f
\

an d h ere y o u h av e t a s t h e Cat h o l i c
ju s

c oo k s d e li vere d i t at t h e cl o s e o f t h e Sp an i sh Am er

i c an wa r . Wh e n yo u r e ad t h i s i f y o u wish Am er ic a
,

d eg r ad e d t o t h e l eve l o f t h e Ph ili pp i n es you will kn o w


,

e x a c t ly h o w t o b r in g it ab o ut b ut i f y o u w i s h t o a vo i d
,

s u c h a c o n d i t i o n i n t h is c o u n t r y , y ou c an s e e t h e n a
c ess it y o f re j e c t i n g R om an i s m an d t h e g re at e r n eces

s it y o f k ee p i n g p ap i s t s Out o f offic e o ut o f t h e s ch o ol s
, ,

an d o u t o f p o w er .

Wit h c on fid en c e in t h e ab ilit y o f t h e Am e r i c an

p eo pl e t o l e a rn t h e l e ss o n t h is b ook t e ach es an d a fir m
,

f ai t h i n t h e i r p at r i o t i s m an d d e s i re t o ave rt t h e g reat
e s t c al amit
y t h at ever t h r e at e ne d t h e n at i o n , t hi s e d i
.

t i o n o f t h i s mo s t i mpo r t an t d o c umen t i s s ubm it t e d


wi t h o ut a s i n gle wor d o f t h e o r igi n al t e x t ch an ge d k b u t
'

wit h a wi d e m a r gin an d wit h m ar gin al n o t e s t h at we


t r u s t may b e h e lp ful t o t h e re ad er .
Tfie Sen a t e Doc um en t an d ROM /1 72 137 72
S ENAT E .

LANDS H ELD FOR ECCLESIASTICAL OR RELIGIOU S


USES IN THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS ET C , .

MESSAG E
ROM F TH E

r esi ent o nite tates


T R A NS MIT T I NG

IN RE SPONSE TO RESOLUTION OF T H E SENATE OF


J ANUARY 26 1 9 0 1 A RE PORT FROM THE S ECRETARY
, ,

OF WAR WITH ACCOMP ANYING PAPERS RELATIVE


. ,

TO T HE LANDS HELD IN MOR T M AIN OR OTH ER


'

'

WISE FOR ECCLESIA STICAL OR RELIGIOUS USES


I N THE PHI LIPPINE ISLANDS ; AL S O TRANS MITT ING
CERTIF IED COPIE S OF THE ACTS OF THE PH ILIP
P INE COMMIS SION NUMBERS 56 TO 68 INCLUSIVE
, ,
.

F E B RUA RY 25 , 1 9 0 1 Re ad referred t o the Committee on


.

. the
Philippines and ordered to be print ed
, .

To t he S enat e
In response to th e resoluti on o f th e Senate o f January 26 .

1 90 1 as follows
.

R es o l ved That the Pre sident so f ar as in his judg ment


, ,

may be n o t inconsistent with the public interest be requeste d ,

to communicate to the Senat e all information in his power o r


in that of an y o f the Executive Departments in regard to the
lands held in mortmain or oth erwise for ecclesias tical o r relig
ious uses in the Philippine Islands including the character o f .
-

the title to such lands th e extent and value o f the same an d


. ,

t h e parts of th e islan ds w here they e xist ; and further whether ,

he has in behalf o f th e Government e n tered into any obligat ion


other th an wh at is set forth in the la t e tr eaty with Spain i n
r egard t o th eir disposition or the mai ntenance of an y alleged
titl es theret o or h as announced or decl are d any policy t o be
,

pursu e d in dealing with such titles Also to co mmunicat e t o .

t h e Senate an y map o f the territory of th e Phili ppine Islands


o r an y par t t hereof in which these doma ins are laid down .

I tr ansmit herewith a report o f the Secret ar y o f War dat e d


February 1 9 1 9 0 1 with accompanying papers
, , .

I also transmit certified copies o r the acts of the Philippine


Commission numbers 5 6 to 6 8 inclusive
, , .

Wu n a u MCKINLEY .

Ex a c m w u Man si o n
'
.

F ebr uar y 25 . 1 9 0 1 .
Tne Sen a t e Doc um en t an d R om a n ifi n
W AR D E P ART MEN T ,

Was h i n gt o n , F e br ua r y 19 ,
1 90 '

Th e Pan s mnn r
'

I have t h e honor to report upon the subject matter of th e


following resolution of the Senate date d Janu ary 2 6 1 9 0 1 for
, , ,

warded to me by indorsement dated Executive Mansion Jan


, ,

uar y 28 1 90 1,

R es o l r e d That the Pre s ident so far as in his judg ment


, ,

may be not inconsistent with the public interest be re quested ,

to communicate to the Senate all information in h i s po wer or


in that of any of t h e Executive Departments in regard to the
lands held in mortmain or otherwise for ecclesiastical or relig
ious uses in the Philippin e Islands in c lud i n gjh e character of
,

the ti tle to such lands the extent an d value of the same and
, ,

the p arts of the islands where they exist ; and further w hether

he has in behalf of the Government entered into any obligation ,

other than what is set forth in the late treat y wit h Spain in
reg ard to their disposition or the maintenance of any alleged
ti tles or has announced or declared an y policy to be pursued in
,

dealing wit h such titl es Also to communicate to the S e nate


.

any map of the territory of the Phili ppine Islands or any part
thereof in which these domains are laid down .

l . The p olicy of the Executive to b e pursued in dealin g


wi th titles held in mortmain or otherwise for ecclesiastical o r
religious uses in the Philippine Islands was declared in your
inst ructions to the Philippine Commissioners transmitted to ,

t hem th rough me on the 7 th o f April 1 9 00 as follows , ,

It will be the duty o f the commission t o make a thorough


investigation into t h e t it le s to the l arge tracts of land held or
'

claimed by individuals or by religious orders ; into the jus t ice


o f the claims and complaints made against such landhold ers by
the people of the island o r an y part of the people and to s e ek
, ,

by wise an d peace able meas ures a j u s t settlement o f t h e contro


versies an d redre ss of wron g s which have caused strife and
bloodshe d in the past In t h e perform ance of this duty the
.

commission is enjoined to see that no injustice is d one ; to have


regard for substantial rights and equity disregar ding ts o hui .

c ali t i e s so far as substantial right p ermi t s and to observe the ,

following rules
That the provision of the treaty of Paris pled ging the
Unite d State s to the protection of all rights o f property in
the islands and as well the principle of our own Go vernment
, ,

which p rohibits the taking of private property without due


process of law sh all n o t be violate d ; that the welfare of the
,

people of the islands which sho uld be a paramount considera


.

tion shall be attained consistently with this rule of propert y


,

right ; that if it becomes necessary for the public inte rest of the
people o f the i s l an d s t o dispose of claims to proper t y which the “

commission finds to be not lawful ly ac quired and held d isposi ,

ti on shall be made thereof by due legal procedure in wh ich ,

there shal l be full opportunity for fair and im p artial hearing


and judgment ; that if the same public interests require the
extinguishment of p r o p e r t v rights lawfully a c quired and held ,

due comp ensation shall be made out of the public treasury


therefor ; th at no form of r eligion and no minister of religion
shall be forced upon any community or upon any citi zen of the
islands ; that upon the other hand no minist er of re ligion shall
be inte rfered with or moleste d in following his calling and that ,

the separation between s t ate and church shall be real entire , ,


an d absolute .

No one has in behalf of the Gover nment of t he United


2
Tne Sen a t e D oc umen t . an d Rom a n ia n
S tates entered into any obligation other than that set forth in ,

the late treaty with Spain in regard to the d isposition or main ,

t en an ce of any alleged titles t o such lands nor has any other ,

policy to be pursued in dealing with such titles b e en d eclare d or


announce d .

i 2

In obedience t o the above cited instructions the Philip
.
,

p in e Commissi on has en te red upon an investigation of the title s


referred to in the resolution and in it s report d ated November , .

80 1 900 transmitted by you to Congress on the 2 5 th of Jan


, ,

uary 1 90 1 it has state d the results of its investigation up to


, ,

that time as t o the character of the title of such l ands the


e xte nt and value o f the same and the parts of the islands
,

where they exist The subdivision of the report entitled The


.


Friars beginning o n page 2 3 of the printed document relates
, ,

e specially to this subject The subdivisions entitled Public .


Lands ” an d Land Titles and Registration also contain mat


t e r relevant to the inquiries contained in the resolution .

3 ; It will appear by reference to page 1 6 of the above cited


.
-

report that the commission has investigated specifically the


,

c onte ste d title to the lands and buildings of the College of S an


Jose at Manila Since the date o f the report th e commission
.

has announced its conclusion t hat the claim adverse to the al


l e g e d right o f the religious control of the said college has suf
fi cient basis to require its submission to judicial decision A .

co py of the written decision o f the commission stating the ,

character o f the title and the questions to be determined and a ,

copy o f a rule or order adopted by the commission to confer


jus i sd i c t i o n of the controversy on the supreme court o f the
.

is lands and regulate the pr ocedure therein are transmitted here ,

The par ts
4 the commission s report above referred t o
of

were t o a considerable extent base d upon testimony taken by


.

the commission and reduced to wr iting A copy of such te sti .

mony is transmitted herewith .

5 The following reports which already have bee n trans


.
,

mi tt e d t o Congres s also contain matter relevant to the inquir y


,

o f the resolution

( a) The re port of the former Philippi n e Commission Sen


ate Document No 1 3 3 Fifty six th Con g ress first session part
,

-
.
, , ,

1 p ag e s 1 30 to 1 41 inclusive the chapter entitled


, The Secular ,

College and Religious Orders Part 2 of the same document .

contains the evidence on that subject taken by that commis


sion .

( b ) The report o f Maj Gen El well S Otis as military gov . . .

e r no r of the Philippines for t h e period ending May 5 1 9 00 con , ,

t ain e d in part 4 volume 1 of the report of the War Department


, ,

for 1 900 published as House Document No 2


, . .

( c) The report o f Maj Gen Arthur Mac Ar t h ur for the . .

period ending Oct 1 1 9 00 cont ained in part 1 0 volume 1 of


.
, , , ,

the War Department for 1 9 00 published as House Document ,

No 2 . .

The domains referred to in the resolution are not laid


6 .

down in any o f t h e maps o f the territory of the Ph ilippine


Islands or any part thereof in the possession o r wi thi n t he ,

knowledge of the War Department


,

3
Tfie Sen a t e Docum en t d Rema n zr fn
'

an

I beg t o t ake this occasion to tran s mit cer tified copies o f


t h e ac ts o f the Philippine Commi s sion numbered 5 6 to 68 in clu ,

Give. These together with th e acts which you transmitte d t o


,

t h e Senate with your message of January 25 1 9 0 1 complete t h e , ,

r ecord of acts of the commission from its organization to an d


In cluding the second day of January .

Very respectfully
E LI H U Roor
,

S ec

y f
o War .

Um r '
nn Sr '
a r ns
'
P mm r mn Co nr m s s r o rz ,

S nc n n r m r s Or mc n ,
'
'

MAN IL A D ec 29 1 9 00
I here by ce rti fy tha t t h e annexed is a cor r ec t copy o f an
. .
. ,

pas sed by the Unite d State s Philippine Commission on th e


1 2 th d ay of December 1 9 00 taken fro m the or iginal on file in
, ,

t h is o fil ce
.

[em u ] A W F m e uss o x Se c y ’
. .
, .

TESTIM ONY TAKEN BY PHILIPPINE comma .

SION RELATING TO RELIGIOUS ORDERS.


IN DEX IN RE F RIARS .

Dominican s— Santiago Paya


Franciscans— Rev Juan Villegas
.

. .

Augustinians — The Very Re v Jose Lobo . .

Re c o l le t o s — Very Rev Francisco Araya . .

Capuchino Padre Alphon s o Maria de Moret t in


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Benedictine — Padre Juan Sabater .

Paull s t
J Miguel Saderra Mata
e s ui t s — .

The archbishop of Manila .

The b ishop o f Jaro .

The bishop o f Vigan


Don Felipe Calderon
.

Jose Rod e r igue s In fante


.

No z ar io Con stanti no o f Bigaa


M ax imo Viola o f San Miguel de Mayumo
.

, .

Dr T H Pardo d e Tavera
. . . .

Pedro Surano Lah taw .

Ambrosi a Fl ore s .

Phelps Whitm arsh .

Ce fer in o Jovan al cal de of B acolor , .

Gen B P Hughes
. . . .

Co l W i ll i am H Be ck
. . .

Floren tino Torres att o r ney general ,


-
.

Jose R o s .

Fran cis co Go nzale s .

Lead ing res idents of the t own of Ar lngayz


Jose Templo
Jorge Gardia d e l Fierr o
.

Col Charles W Ho od
Bri g G e n Jas F Smith
. . .

. - . . . .

P R Mercado
Jose 0 Mijares
. . .

. .

Francisco Alvarez .

Raymundo Melliza Angulo .

Fe lipe G Calderon . .

Wm H Taft
Hermenegildo J Tor r e s
. . .

. .

C W Mi nor
. . .
T/z e S en a t e D oc umen t ’
Rom a n zs n z
'

an a

July
DO M I N I C AN S —
I NT E R V I E W O F S A NT I
AG O PAYA
Q Will you please state your full name the order to whi ch
, ,

you belong an d th e position you hold in that order


, .

A Santiago Paya provincial of the Domin icans


.
, .

Q How long have yo u been in the Philippines ?


.

A I arrived in 1 871 but eight y ears since then I have spent


.
,

in Spain .

Q You have spent more than h alf y our life here ?


.

A Yes
Q I would like to go a little into the history of the Domin
. .

i c an s if you will be good enough


, How long has that order .

b een i n the Philippines ?


A The first men arrived in 1 5 87 Some year s prior to that
. .
,

in 1 58 1 the first bishop o f Manila and a companion who were


, ,

Dominicans arrived in Manila , .

Q And the order has been continuously here since that


.

time ?
A Yes s ir T h e order was founded in the beginning of
.
, .

th e tenth century The order w a s confir med in 1 26 1 by Pope


.

H o l or iue s The purposes of the order are i n co r p o r at e d in bull s


and other documents issued by papal authority and they are ,

printed in a set of nine volumes w h ich they term the H ular i o ,

of the order It is a compilation of all docu ments relat ing t o


.

the order .

Q Is not the chief function of the order to do missionar y


.

work and enlarge the usefulness o f the c h urch ?


A The saving o f souls through preaching and teaching etc
. .

, .

Q And in carrying the limits of the church o r its influence


.

beyond where it was at the time o f organization ?


A In carrying missions to the farther most ends of t h e
.

earth
Q In other words they undert ake to carry the church into
.

.
,

new countries rather than to remain where the secular priests


were conducting the ordinary exercises o f the church ?
A Prea ching in countri es not only alre ad y Catholic b ut
.
,

also to the unfaith ful The D ominicans have missionaries in .

Tonkin China Formosa and other places in the Orient


, , , .

Q Have any o f your priests suffered in China ?


.

A There ar e D o minicans in Fooc h o w an d Soochow an d


.
,

none have been molested that I am a ware of .

Q I have been told the Jesuits h ave los t several priests ?


.

A Yes sir ; they are farther north


.
, .

Q Has the order laymen as well as priests ?


.

A They have o f course regular ordained priests and they


.
, , ,

also have lay priests who take the same oath but they ar e n ot
,

ordained .

Q But they canno t administe r all t h e sacraments ?


.

A No , s ir .

Q There are no Filipino members of t h e order ?


.

A No s ir
.
, .

Q Are there any lay me mbers who are Filipinos ?


.

A No There is what is called a third order compose d of


. .
,

5

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zr m

an a

privat e individ uals m arried who take no vows but they n e ver
, , ,

could become ordained They have certain religious usage s o r


.

practices but they are n ot bound by any vows o r ties


,
.

Q They are onl y aux iliary members ?


'

A They are en t irely independent because they are not sub


. ,

je c t to the rules superior and do not take an y vows .

Q Were you a parish priest in these islands before you h e


came the head of t h e order ?
A No ; I was a teacher in the university
. .

Q A n d now y o u are also the head of the University of


Santo Tomas ?
A I was the president of the uni versi t y un t il I was made
provincial o f this order but even now I have a superintend
.

ence over me .

Q What is his name


.

A P ai mun d o V a l ac q ue s the head of the university


. , .

Q How many pri e sts were there in your order in 1 88 6 ,

when the revolution be gan ?


A Two hundred and four fat hers and 29 lay brothers
. .

Q Can you give me a list of the towns an d villages i h t h e


.
-

Philippines in which the priests of your order acte d as pari s h


priests ?
A Every year we publishe d a register giving the pl aces
. ,

an d t h e number of souls etc i n the islands where our order


, . ,

was engaged in saving souls .

Q Does that include the whole order or onl y in these


.

islands ?
A It includes the order in the Orient
. .

Q What civil or political functions did the priests of your


.

order exe rcise under the Spanish Crown in the parishes to


which they were assigned ?

A They exercised no civil or p olitical duties at all The


. .

only thing the parish priest did was to act as inspector of


schools w h ich wa s not by law exactly but the Span ish law
. ,

recognized that because they devoted themselves to the public


"

service .

Q Was not there a provision i n the Spanish law of t h e


.

government of the municipalities that the parish priests with ,

o ut respect to the order t o which they belonged should Serve ,

on civil committees of the municipalities ?


A In 1 8 9 3 by a charter act they reorganiz e d the laws r e
.
, ,

lating to mu n icip alities ; and accord ing to the terms of that law
o f reorganization the provin cials here were members of th at

council of administration and in the provinces the provincial


,

there als o became a member o f that council in the municipality .

The parish p r ie s t b e came a member of t h e local board corre


s p o n d i n g to the council o f administration but the parish priest
,

paid very little attention to tha t as it wa s a new element to ,

h i m ; by reason of things which ensue d they had no chance but


;
prior to that time they exercised no civil duties at all
Q Is it not a fact that the priest and I am now referr ing
.

.
,

t your order although it applies to all orders of the islands


,
,

probably was the most intelligent man the man most ac


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q uai n t e d with general afiair s in the town and whether every ,

6
Toe Sen a t e D oc um en t d Roma n zr m

an

public thing that was done was first submitted to h im I me n . a


in the small countr y towns .

A Naturally the parish priests were all men of great i n flu


.

ence moral influence by reason o f their ho ly o fli ce and they


, , ,

were not only the parish high priests but they were even s ome ,

time s judges because ofte ntimes t h e F ilipino would prefer to


,

submit their quest ions i n litigation t o the parish pr iests than t o


their o wn j udges ; and co nsequen tly the Spanish Government,
recognizing t his moral hold — this moral in fluence t hat the
p riest had over th e people took ad vantage o f it so as to get .

t h e people t o pay their taxes and comply with la w, but they


never e xerci s ed any politica l o r civil charges ; but the Govern ;


ment itself took ad vantage of these facts to get them to keep
the men within the law .

Q I s it n o t a fac t th at there were a great many parishes in


.

t hese islands in which there were no Spanish soldiers at all ?


A The greater part I n the immense majority ther e were
. .

neither soldiers nor civili ans and only the parish priests and , ,

this in to wn s up t o 20 000 .

Q Did not the Spanish Government then come to rely o n


.
, ,

the priests as th e best means they had t o en force law and ,

ord er ?
A Yes sir It was the prin cipal element that they relied
.
, .

o n but t hrough the mora l element o f the priest


, .

Q I s it not d ifli cult in ex e rcising power o f that sort to


.

make a distinction between the moral influence and the actua l


influence exercised by reason of that posi tion ?
A Of course the priest was b acked up by the Government
.

n aturally an d the peopl e recogn i zed that


, .

Q I have understood th at it is o n e o f the principles o f


your order and of the Catholic Church generally that the civil
authority where it does not att empt to in terfere with the rights
,

o f the church is t o be supporte d by the members of the order


,

an d th e membe rs of the church ?


A Al l lawfully constituted authority has the support of the
.

church .

Q And of course this is an order of the church and is


.
, , ,

o n e o f th e aims of the church to carry that principle wh e rever

they go ?
A Yes sir ; t o such an extent that even i n China where
. , ,

the authorities are pagans the priests ad vise their fl o cks t o ,

obey the laws o f the lan d That law is not so much a principle
.

o f the church as it is a divine or natural princ iple We always .

have to res pect the authority which is lawfully constituted .

Q I remember in th e case o f France though the monar


. ,

ch i al party was favorable to the Papal power nevertheless the ,

Pope advi sed the Cat holics of F r ance to submit t o the Republic
an d support t hat power .

A Yes sir
.
,
.

Q And therefore th e memb e rs of y our order in ad minis


teri ng the o fli ce s t hey h ad t o admi nis ter and i n exer cisi ng th e
.
, ,

influence their position gave them both ci vil and religious , ,

were loyal to Spain d uring the t wo revolutions ?


A Defending the fatherland as a duty towards one s o wn
.

c on scien ce there was not a sin le exception


g
.
,

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zr m
'

ana

Q D id it not t herefor e come to


. ,
pas s th at t o t h ose who ,

were engaged in the revolution and especially in that larg e p ar t ,

o f the co untry wh er e th e Spanish s oldiers did n o t go th at t he ,

parish priests represe nte d to the people the Cro wn of Spain an d


loyalty to th at Crown .

A The p ri es t was ofte nt imes the only Spani ard in t h e


.

town but he only exercised moral s uasi on The civil aut hority
,
.

was re prese nte d by what was known as th e go b er n ad o r c il lo .

Q We are dealing with facts with substance and did n ot


. , ,

the priest represent t h e real author ity in favor o f law an d or d er


and perseverance of the rights of Spain ; e specially after the
go b er n ad or c ill o had turned hi s coat an d gon e ov er to th e r e vo
luti on is t s ?
A As a fact the g o b er n ad o r c illo did not do anyt hing Wi th
.

out consul t ing the par ish priest .

Q Until he became a r evolut ionist ?


.

A That h as only be en lately


. .

Q I am spe aking now o f 1 89 6 and 1 898


. .

A In 9 6 and 9 8 in many of th e to wns t h e people r e mai ned


.
’ ’
,

at lea st appar en tl y favorable to Spain and were in co mmun i ca


t ion with their parish priest .

The generality of people in th e provi nces are un educate d


and very simple folk and more since re but th e Indian is a litt le
, ,

false rat her deceitful and h as a littl e head


, , .

Q How were the priests of your order supporte d during


.

th e time they ac te d as pari sh priests ?


A They h ad a stipend fro m the Span ish gover n ment
. .

Q Can you stat e generally what that amounted to for each


'

pr iest ?
A It depended upon the class of t h e parish Some r e
. .

calved $5 0 0 others 8 600 , others $7 0 0 an d o t hers 8 80 0


, There , .

were some a ver y few like that of Manila and Bi n d o n d o wh o


, , ,

received $ 1 2 00 per annum .

Q I do not know how far that amount woul d go in 1 89 6


.
,

b ut I know it would not go very far now with present prices .

A Aside from that he r eceive d anot her revenue in th e


. ,

for m of fees which were paid for certain offices performed by


h m whi ch fe es were fixed by the bishop wi t h the approval of
i ,

t h e government [ pre s ents a wr itten s t ate ment o n the subject]


Q Let me look over that sta tement if I may I suppo s e
.

.
, .

t her e was a fee for ma r riage ?


A For marriages $3 62 One eighth of that was for t h e
.
, .
-

church and the other for th e pari sh priest and his support For .

burials for children for adults


, For c hristenin g
, , ,

1 2 ; cents includin g th e cost of th e c andle


, These were th e o r .

d in ar y pri ce s but when a perso n wanted pomp and show there


, ,

was a s pecial price Even these fees were someti mes not
.

ch arged in the c as e of poor people either in whole or in part


Q You have read from a list I suppose that was a list
, .

.
.

formul ate d by a bis hop in a particular dioces e but it represe nts ,

t h e general charges throughout the islan d ?


A The list is over 1 0 0 years old The re is very littl e differ
. .

ence in all th e dioceses Spaniar ds p aid the mos t the mestiz o


.
,

paid a little higher tha n the Indian and the Indian p aid th e ,

le ast .
T/z e Sen a t e D ocum en t Roman zs m
'

ana

Q Wer e t here any voluntary contributi ons by the member s


.

o f th e c on gre gati on e ac h Sunday ? Did t hey t ake up a co lle c


t io n ?
A It was n ot th e custom
. .

Q W h o built t h e churches in which the pari sh priests oul


. o

c iat e d and the conven t os in which they l ived ?


A The parishioners always built the churches All t h e
. .

t owns here were formed little by little and when they had suni ,

cient popula tion t hey would erect a church The parish priest .

h ad t o ac t as the head car p enter th e head mason and h ad t o , ,

d i rect t h e brick wo rk an d at times h ad t o go out and sh o w them


,

h o w t o cut th e lumber down The convento s wer e also built in


.

th at way .

Q They call it c onvento he re In the United Stat es a co n


. .

v ent means a place wh ere the nun s li ve — t h e sisters .

.A Here and in the provinces they call t h e parish house the


"

c onvent .

.
Q Was the title to th e churches and conventos put in the
Cro wn o f Spain ?
A In so me ca se s th e churches and parsonages were erect
.

e d with funds furn ished by th e ord er i t s elf in case of mi ssio n ,

churches .

Q Do yo u k now how many there wer e erect e d by you r o r


.

der ?
A In that st ate ment you have it spec ifies mis sion churches
.

an d mission parsonages They were built with the funds of


.

the order The other parsonages an d chur ches were erected by


.

general church funds and oftentimes the parish priest woul d


,

make a c ontribution The congregation would assist mostly b y


.
'

manual labor an d the governmen t at times would cause men


,

wh o had t o d o govern ment work o n public buildi n gs t o assist in


the work t her eby contr ibuti n g it s share as patro n of th e churc h
,

i ns tea d of pay ing money .

.
Q D o you know how the title was se cur ed t o t h e land on
whi ch t h e churche s were ere ct e d ? Did not they ord inarily build
o n t h e open square o f th e town ?
.A L and here at first was of course fre e to everybody .

Oftentimes the parish priest would buy the land and i n other ,

cases the land belonged to the town .

.
Q How have the deeds been re g is tered ?
.A Only a few years ago in the provi n ce s did t hey be gin t o
h a ve any deeds No reco rds at all were kept until a few years
.

Q How h av e t hey be en m ade si nce t h e pract ice of mak in g


.

dee ds ?
A Of all those recorded in there as mission churches and
parsonages I do not know of a single in st ance where they have
.

been recorded They were erecte d and t hey have been used
. ,

for th e proper purposes an d the parish priest has been livin g


,

in th e parsonages— nobody has disputed the t itle and noth ing


h a s ever arisen un der it .

Q Of cour se as a lawyer I want to know wher e the title


. , ,

is. Wher e ver th e t itl e there is no doubt th at th e church and


,

con vent ar e t o be devot e d to the purpose s for w h ich t hey wer e


b uilt — the Catholi c r elig ion— but the duty of th e gover nment of
9
d Roma n zs m

T/ze Sen a t e D ocumen t an

.
the Un i t ed S t ate s wi t h respect to pro p e rty to which it may
,

nave acquired title by t r ah s f e r w ill b e varie d as it finds out ,


.

where that title is If it has t itle in i t s e l f it will be the dut y of


.

the governmen t to transfer that title to someo n e for the church


or t he people of the church .

A A s up to a very f e w years ago there were hardly any


.

Spaniards in the provinces this matter was done without any ,

titles at all There were no S pani ard s no lawye rs no notaries


. , , ,

and no records in the provinces .

Q In the United State s it has been the habit o f the Cat h o


lic church to carry the title o f l an d whic h belongs to the church '

in the name of the bishop of the diocese .

A Yes sir ; as he is the r epresentative So far as the


prope rty belonging to the corporation the orde r I have a deed
.
.
,

, ,

and it is recorded .

Q I have he ard that the title of the cathedral and of the


arch b ishop s residence is in the Crown of Sp ain

.

A It belongs to the chu r ch of Manila


. The fact is the gov .
,

e r n me n t contribute d su ms of money toward the building of both

by t h e obligation th at i t had assumed with the holy see an d as .

t he patron of the ch urch ; but it never occurred to the Spanish


gover n ment to claim an y part of the land as t h e y recognized ,

that it bel o nged to the Catholic church 1 .

Q There is no d o ubt that that is where it belongs It is .

only a question where the legal title rests .

A I think it is in the name of the archbishop


Q I have heard from Colonel Crowder that the title was i n
. .

the Crown of Spain but you can re st a s sured that the govern
,

ment of the United S t ates w ill not take advantage of this to de


prive the Catholic church of any proper ty to which it may b e
entitled .

A Heretofore everything was left to the good faith o f t h e


.

people because no one ever doubted that they did not belong t o
,

the church .

Q As to the properties which the order own ed in th e


island s : F irst w hat agricultural land s did your order own ?
,

A The president is already apprised of the fact that the


.

lands in Cavite Laguna Bulacan and Bataan n o longer belong


, , ,

to us
Q I had not th at in mind and I would be glad to have you
.

state to me again .

A These lands belonged to us previously


.
.

Q Can you tell me how many hacie ndas you had in Cavite
province ?
A T wo ; a lit tl e sugar c ane was cultivated b u
.
t mostly all ,

r ice
. The names o f those two were Naic an d Santa Cruz Ri .

n an, S anta R o s a and Calamba i n Laguna Lomboy Parti


, .
, ,
Orion in Bataan .

Q H o w many acres were there i n the hacienda of Naic ?


.

A The whole of them were a b out


.
hectares .

Q Can you g i ve me appr ox imate fl g ur e s as to each ?


A (Presents to the president a tabular statement contain
.

i n g this information ) O n all of them generally rice is c ui t i v at


.

ed ; in L aguna some sugar and on some considerable timber ,

Q ( President examinin g stat ement ) Does this list r epr e


.

. .

Io
T/z e Sen a t e D ocum en t d Roma n zs m

an

n
se t all of the agricultural lands which the order owned in t h e
islands ex cept Orion ?
A Yes sir ; except a little sanctuary at San Juan del
.
,

Monte I t has been stated around that we recently acq uired


.

t hese . Some of them have been ours for over two centuries .

Colonel Crowder has by dire c tion of Ge n eral Otis lo oked up


, ,

th e titles and h e has seen them all


, .

Q Have you t it le d e e d s t o all of these ?


.

A Yes sir This statement shows the pages fr om which


.
, .

th ey were taken all properly d r a wn up and recor ded


, .

Q How did you farm t hese properties befor e you sold them
.

t o t h e cor p o rations ?
A On each hac ienda we had o n e or t w
. o lay bro t hers who
wer e the administrat ors .

Q Did th e parish priests ha ve anything to do with them ?


.

A Not hing whatever


. .

Q Were t hey re nted o n share s?


A All far med out ; we did not cultivate anything
. .

Q Were th ey farmed on share s o r on a mont hl y rental ?


.

A They were far med o ut this way : It was left to th e will


o f t h e t enants t o eit her pay in money o r in rice as b e pleased ,

th at is rice lands, For lands cultivate d with sugar cane they


.

al ways paid in money .

Q Did you have any tobacco lands ?


A No . .

Q Any c o fle e ?
.

A A lit tle
. .

Q You did not own any cattle ?


A In Santa Cruz we had a lot of catt le b ut the insurgents


.
,

carried them 0 6 .

Q What did you do with the cattle ? Did they graze on


.

y our o wn land ?
A In Calamba an d Santa Cruz the r e was a great deal of
.

uncul t ivate d graz ing lan d .

Q And you own ed th e he rds ?


.

A Yes sir.
, .

Q And th e lay brothers saw t o the graz ing of the m and


.

th en sold th em in th e markets ?
A Yes s ir
. , .

Q As t o your tenants ; did you permit one family t o r e


.

main for s ever al g ener ations on t h e same piece of land ?


A Yes air ; way back t o great grandpare nt s At time s
.
, .
-
.

th ese ten an ts wo md sublet t o others t h e right t o cultivate the


gr ound an d at a g o od price t oo , .

Q D id t h e tenant s put in any improvements ?


,

A No ; in every i nstance the corporation has made all the


.

improvements such as drainage canals d ams and irr igation


, , ,

works .

Q Th ose were all put in by the corporation the te nants


. ,

d i d not put them in at all ?


A No . .

Q How about rice lands ? Does it grow better each year ?


.

A Yes sir ; it h ardly needs any fertili zin g at all afte r a


. ,

f e w crops .

Q Would not sometimes one family which occupied ri ce


.

11
Tfie Sen a t e D e en men t d Rema n zfi n
'

an

lands transfer its rights to another family that i s sell out h is


, , ,

right of tenancy to another ?


A That was prohibite d but they often did that sometimes
. , ,

with the consent o f the administrator and sometimes without .

Q Was the tenancy regarded with s uch privilege that the


.

person going in paid to the person going o ut any sum of money ?


A The tenants themselves considered that a great priv
.

ilege and charged sometimes as much as the propert y was worth .

Q So that they had among the te nants without re spect to


.
,

the original order what we call the te nant s right ?


,

A Strictly speaking the ten ant had no right whatever


.
, .

Contracts were made for three years and aft e r that they were ,

te nan ts at will
Q But what I want to get at is the feel ing and impression
.

among the tenan ts themselves ? They I suppose , came t o think ,

that they might retain the lands as long as they chose in their
family and that that privilege of retention was a valuable priv
,

ilege and so regarded among them and they sold tha t privilege
, ,

from one to another .

A There is no doubt that these tenants held the privilege


.

which they had at a very high value and t hey would get a num ,

ber of acres One man would go to the administrator and say


I will rent twenty acre s and then he would sell that privilege
.
,

of his which was only f o r three years at a hig h figure and so


, , ,

long as he paid his annual rental he would not b e disturbed


But there have been several cases in Calamba w h ere the only

persons they could look to for payment of the rent the tenant , ,

was ejected for non payment They understood that they had
-
.

no legal right to i t after the three years .

Q They also knew that the custom o f the order had been
to give them this privilege continuously and they relied o n that ,

themselves .

A Yes ; that is true


. So much was that the fact that .
,

sometimes a father who had five hectares and five son s would
will those five hectares one to each son , .

Q No w as to the sale of all this property To whom did


.
.

you sell this propert y ?


A Mr Andrews with an obligation on his part t o form an
. .
,

association and then to sell as many shares of the stock as he


,

could ; and the order agreed to take as part payment the shares
re maining in t h e company ,

Q Yo u were p aid in shares so that you own a majority of


.
,

the shares of the corporation now ?


A Yes . .

Q Is there an y agricultural property owned b y the order


.

not in cluded here and which is in the name o f someone else ?


,

A We did not own anyth ing except what is in there as ide


.

from this little sanctuary a t S an Juan del Monte


Q As to improved property the order o wns in Manila or
.

o ther cities for renta l purposes ?

A In Binondo we own a few houses We did o wn a few


. .

here but they were destroyed by fir e and in the port of Cavite ,

We also o wned a few houses under rent .

Q Are they business houses or residences ?


.

A Residences
. .

12

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zs tn
'

an a

th e provincial here Before this time I was a provincial and


.

v isited all of Luzon .

Q .
Were cases of immorality among members o f the order
-

bro ught to the attention of the ord er an d disciplined ?


A There has been a great deal o f t alk about immorality
.

among the parish priests Of course undoubt edly th ere may .


, ,

have been some cases wher e a prie s t has failed to carry out his
vows but those cases were al ways brought to t h e atte ntion o f
,

the provincial and investigated and if in case the charges were ,

found well grounded th ey were chastised either by separation


fr o m
,

t h e ir office o r removal somewhere The greater part o f


'
'

the cases have been exaggerations of s ome fault or made out of


the whole cloth because it seems that the peopl e trump up
,

charges ag ainst the priests so as to mak e th em unpopular in _

th e p rovi nces As a proof of the fact that the se charges were


.

not made by people who were imbued with g r e at r e lig io us fer


vor or love o f exe mplary living in near ly every case charges ,

were brought by men against exemplary prie sts who were ai


,
.

ways i n the coterie of immoral priests so to speak , .

Q In the investigation so far as I have been able to make


.
,

it I have reached the conclusion that the ch arge s of immorality


,

are not the real bases of the hostility to the priests if that hos ,

t ili t y e xists among the people a n d my conclusion as to that is


,

based on the fact as I understand i t t h at the present persons


, ,
'

who are exerci sing the offices of parish prie s ts that again st ,
]

those persons c h ar g e s o f immorality might much more gener


l

ally be brought than against the former parish priests .

A Yes sir The Filipinos themselves say the same thing


. , . .

Q I have talked with Filipino p r i e s t s an d with Filipinos ;


.

and I fin d it pretty g enerally conceded that the Filipino priests


in the islands are not well educate d and that the standard of ,

morality a mong them is not hig h .

A They neither have the characte r nor the capacity nor


.

the idea of morals that exists in a European No w you can .


,

notice in the clergymen who are acting as parish priests they ,

d o just what the local presidente wants them t o do .

Q They are active politicians ?


.

A Yes sir
.
,

Q Is not the danger to the church here in the fact t hat the
.

orde r of intelle ct and education of the native priests is to say


the leas t so mo d e r at e t h at the people will rever t to idolatry and
,
'

fetichism un d e r t h e administration of ignorant Filipino p riests ?


A Yes sir ; that is what is happening in the re mote prov
.
,

i n ce s even where there are Christians


, .

Q What preparation was made to fit these prie sts in the


.

matter of education before goin g to work in these distant par


ishes ?
A Aft er ente ring t h e order they studied for ei ght or nine
.

years in the colle ge in Spain prior to coming out here .

Q What preparation was made in the matter of language s ?


.

A When a new man w as sent out to do parish work he


. .

was sent with an older priest wh o had alre ad y learned the lan
gua ge of the people to learn the customs lan guage and habits
, , .

Q How long did it take a bright man such as you have i n


.
,

your order to learn the langu age of the l ocality ?


,

14
Tae Sen a t e Doc um en t ’
Roma n zs m
'

an a

A So as to treat with the natives on the outside about six


'

.
,

months ; to perfect one s self t o p r each in it some time ’

Q B ut in six months they learned enough t o confess the


.
,

pari shioners ?
A Yes sir One of the proofs of the morality of the cler
.
, .

gyme n and of the orders lies in the character of the Filipinos


t hem s elves Ever ybody will admit t hat the Filipin os as a
.
.

whole are moral and religious and they have had no teacher
.
_ ,

o t her than the members o f the order to teach them— not only in
re ligious but secul ar matte rs ; and if they were an i mmoral set ,

how co uld t hey have brought these pe ople to this state ?


Q It has been quite gratifying t o me t o underst and that

th er e is a very general cha stit y among the women i n these


islands but I have unders to od that while it is true that there is
,

no general want o f cha stity among t h e women there is among ,

th e people a feeling that a man and a woman may associate t o


geth er for a definite time if the woman re main faithful to th e ,

man and r egard that as a k ind of marriage wit hout the san c
,

tion o f the sacrament ; and that th e same feeling in h o w man y ,

cases I do not know has seemed to j ustify that kind of relat io n


existing betwee n a priest and a woman I just throw out th at
,

as a suggestion and ask for your opinion on it


, .

A I d o not claim that there have not been priests who have
.

not but the large majority o f them have preached n o t only by


, ,

words but by action morality and religion I think that t h e


, . .

living together in concubin age of a priest and a woman is very ,

v ery rare That there may have been some weak priests who
.

have fallen once— th ey might b e less rare .

Q An army office r related this to me as happenin g in Hoc o s


.

Norte : He says that he n o w lives in the house of a woman who


is entir ely respectable who would nev er be described as n u
, ,

chaste wh o had two daughters and who st at ed wi thout hesita


, ,

tion and n o t as a badge of shame t hat those daughters were the ,

daughte r s of a pad re who formerly lived t here but who now ,

h ad been obliged t o g o away Now while o f course th at rela. ,

ti on is deplorable n evertheless it illustrate s a very different


.

state o f society from that where there is promiscuous illicit ,

i nter course and i llustrates that in the mind o f the nati ves there
,

is a very great difference between gen eral unchastity and loyalty


t o o n e person That is what I have gathered from persons with
.

whom I have t alk ed ; that is what is in my mind from the evi


dence I have al r e ady gathered .

A I do n o t deny that there have not been such cases but I


. ,

do deny that there h as b e en th at promiscuous and general im


morality o n t h e part of the priests with which th ey have been
charged .

Q Whil e there is a very great difference between the Unit


ed States and the Ph ilippine I slands I suppose that human na ,

ture is n o t altogether d iii er e n t here from what it is at home and ,

therefore those who d o not take religion very seriously are very ,

glad t o sei z e individual instances o f falling away by the priests ,

and are quite disposed from these few individual instances to


make ge neral charges again st the whole class .

A My only answer is the same as before that there may ,

15

Roma n zs m

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t ana

have been a few is o lat e d c as e s of immorality but nothing upon


'

wh ich general charges could be based . .

Q Was it possible under the Spanish reg ime for the par
.

ish priest to notify the captain gener al of the presence in the -

community of a dangerous character and to have him deported ?


A The initial steps were never taken by the parish priests
.
.

The government would in some instances ask for a report on


some of the people in the town and that the parish priest very ,

often did not reply to h im because the g o b e r n ad o r c i llo would


say to the man upon whom suspicion has fallen that the parish
priest was trying to ge t rid o f him was sometimes true When .

the parish priest was asked about the town they would send in
such a report t o the gover nor general but never without being -
,

requeste d .

Q A n d the governor general would then deport him ?


.
-

A More ofte n it was a case for the parish priest to inter


.

cede t o prevent deportation t han to car r y i t o ut The priest .

often realized the fact that charges against o n e o f th eir parish


l oners were based o n the intr igue of the guardia civil and o fii
cers of the municipality and they interceded in his behalf ofte n
,

e r than to have him transporte d The parish priest was the .

father o f the locality and although ve ry pleasant relations usu


,

ally existed between the Spanish civil authoritie s and the


Spanish priests there were cases wh en the priests had to t ake
,

issue i n behalf of some parishioners .

Q How many priests of your order were assaulted by the


.

revolutionists during 1 8 9 6 1 89 8 ? -

A The only one we lost was the parish priest of Hermosa


.
,

in R at aan wh o was assassinated This is the only one


. . .

Q Were an y of them im prisoned ?


.

A Every body became a prisoner


.
.

Q D id not Aguinald o keep a lot o f priests in prison for


.

a long time wh o were subse quently released by the American s ?


A None of ours One hundred and fifteen Dominicans
.
.

were held prisoners for a year and a half i n the provinces from .

July 1 8 9 8 till December last wh e n t h ey were released


, , ,
'

Q H o w were they released ?


.

A Because the American troops advanced and they let


.

them g o .

Q They were held by the insurgents ?


.

A Yes sir
.
, .

Q Were any of them maltreated during that time ?


.

A Yes sir
.
, .

Q Were they whipped ?


.

A Some of them were whipped and othe r s they filled full


.

of water with a funnel in their mon t h s Some o f them had .

their ankles bound together and tied in a position for days .

Bil la and Leyba the t wo most crue l men wh o have been i n the
,

valley o f the Cagayan are both aids of Aguinaldo


, .

Q Is the Bishop of Vigan a Dominican ?


A Yes sir ; and this man Billa is the man who broke two
.
,
'

s t ic k s o n the arm of the bishop Nine have d ied during t heir .

imprisonment mostly from bad treatment


.

Q Do you thi nk that the priests of your order could return


.

t o their parishes and assume their sacerdotal functions ?


16
T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t ’
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A S o far as the mas s o f the people in the northern part o f


.

the islands is concerned N ueva E c ija Pangasinan t here would


, , ,

be no trouble whatever The only thing to look o ut for would


.

be t h e arrival of some Katipunan and his working up the people .

In Batanes e ight have gone back and they were well received ,

and there are no American soldiers there .

Q Have any ret urned in the Island of Luzon ?


.

A These sa me priests who went to Bata n es were a few


.

days in Aparri and the people came down and a s ked them when
,

they were g oing to return that they wanted them to re turn , .

Q Are any of the members of your order in Dagupan ?


.

A No sir
.
, .

Q But you have churches there ?


.

A Yes sir ; all the province of Pan g asinan was ad min i s


.
,

t er e d by Dominicans .

Q T o what do you attribute the fee ling against the mem


'

bers o f your order generally if it exists ? ,

A As a matter of fact among the mass of people this h a


.
,

trea does not exis t It does exist among the Katipunan s and
.

here and there among the better class but the whole reason o f ,
,

t h e h at r e d o f t h i s class against the priests lies in the f act that


'

th ey were the bulwarks of Spain s sovereignty i n the islands


'

.

and these people recognizing their l oyalty t o their govern ment


say that in order t o bre ak down the sovereignty of Spain it was
necessary to cast odium upon the religious orders and h ave
them p ossibly e xpelled from the country .

Q Do you think any feeling exists against them because of


.

the i mmorality o f its members ?


A No Indian has ever made a complaint of immorality on
.

t h e part of a priest except in the case o f reven ge When the


provincial makes a visit they do n ot say a word As soon as .

they have any little trouble with the parish priest then they will
present a lot o f testimony and report charge s agains t the parish
priests .

Q Is it not true that a good many of these tenants would


.

be willin g t o have the land which they occupy for nothing and ,

d o they not have the natur al feeling which exists sometimes


between t enants and landlords ?
A That feeling not only exists against the religious cor
.

pot ations b ut against eve r y owner o f property We h ave p e t i


,
.
i

tions from several of the pueblos in which the inhabitants ask


us n o t t o co n vey their property away because they do not want ,

t o have anything to do with any othe r l an d proprietors but us .

All they had to pay in the way o f rental was about o n e sixth or -

o n e fifth of the value Hence in the towns where our h ac ie n


. ,

l as w e re located you would fin d better houses better people



,
,

an d more wealth .

Q.
I suppose it is true here as elsewhere that i t 1 s easy to
, ,

c ul t i v ate among the debtors un popularity for the creditors


.

A Oh yes ; everywhere
. ,
.

Q How are the members of your order at present sup


.

port d ?
; W e have the savings o f several years and also t he ren
'

t al o f house s and a few other sources of income


.
,

17
Tao Sen a t e Documen t ’
Roma n zs m
'

an a

Q . Did the insurgent govern ment at Malolos pass a law con


fis c at i n g your property ?
A Law strictly speaking no They did put an additional
.
, , .

art icle on t o their constit ution by the terms o f which th ey ap


p r o p r i at e d all our property but we paid no atten t ion to that
,

because we recognized here only two sovereigns— formerly the


Spaniards and n o w the Americans .

Q Have not agents of that s o called government actually


.
-

coll ected rents for the property owned by the corporation ?


A Yes sir ; they have taken charg e of the haciendas and
.
,

have made the tenant s pay rent .

Q And r at her higher rent than you were accustomed t o


.

collect ?
A Yes s ir ; the money they have m ade out of those lands
.
,

has been a great element in carrying o n the war for them To .

take the haciendas a way from them now will be a har d stroke
against the revolution .

Q If the insurgents h ad been successful do you think you


.
,

could have remained in the islands ?


A W e never even thought here th at the revolutionists ever
'

would be succe ssful and so t ook n o steps


, .

Q But the controlling spirits in the revolution were very


.

hostile toward you ? 1

A Yes sir ; and if th ey had secured their independence we


.
,

would have had t o l eave not because o f the common p e o ple b ut


, ,

bec ause of these leaders The mass o f the people l ike us but
.
,

they do not know how to move how to do anything at all —


.

Q Suppose the Unite d State s government were to estab


.

lish a protectorate here by which we should defend the islands


,

ag ainst outside influence but let the pe ople take care of their
inte rnal affairs ; how much pr otecti on t o prope rty would e xist
,

here ?
A We would have t o leave The pe ople l ike us but do not
.
.
,

defend us on acco unt of their inaction


, .

Q Le avin g out the question o f the orders how much p r o


.
,
t e c ti o n t o general property would there be in these islands under
such a government ?
A If they had their independence it would be chaos I n
.
.

four days they woul d be fighting eac h other— the different ele
ments The first thing would be that the half caste s with a
.
-

little Spanish blood would w an t t o get the power i n their o w n


hands but would b e overcome by the natives The true back
, .

bone o f the insurrection is the state of terror which th e o fii c e r s


now in the field have forced on the people who have bee n e u
l isted by te rror t o take up arms a gai nst the Americans and
; ,
al though I do not desire to give any advice t o the American
government I think that t h e only way to settle t h e question is
,

to bring a greater terror to bear upon them than now imposed


by the insurgent government .

Q Is not one trouble among the people a doubt as t o the


.

policy the Americans are going t o pursue to g ain control o f


these i slan d s ?
A Partly that ; but in a greater way the lies that are told
.

in the pro vince s Out there the idea prevails that Aguinaldo s
. ’

f orces are going t o succeed They te ll of batt les in which o ne


.

1s
T/z e Sen a t e D ocum en t ’
Roma n zs m
'

ana

h un d r d A JJc I i c afl S are killed and the people believe that Here


e , .

in M ani la t h e h alf e duca t ed people of the capital believe that


-

the gov e r nment will gi v e th e m their independen ce I f l ast .


,

Decemb e r when the Ame ric an troops m ad e the advance toward


,

the north they had gone farther an d more energetically the


, ,

th ing would have been solved b y this time becau se the people ,

in the to wns who were downtrodden and te rrorized by t h e i h


'

surgent o fficers want somebody to come and lift this burden


,

from o ff them ; but the Americans w ent a little ways north and ,

then went o ff t o the coast t owns .

Q How man y members of your order have left the islands


.

since 1 89 8 ?
A Sixty seven ; forty fiv e to Spai n and twenty t w o to
.
- - -

Chin a .

Q None have gone t o South America ?


.

A No . .

Q I put a question suggested by a remark made by the


"

archbishop that in 1 89 8 somebody went t o Rome and professed


t o represent the American Government and proposed to buy all ,

the property belongin g to the religious orders here and that ,

Cardinal Rampolla telegraphed to the islands to have an i n ve n


tory made o f the property which it was thus proposed to buy .

Can you give me a copy of that inventory ?


A When the last commi s sion was here they asked for it
.

and it was given them the same which was sent to Rampoll a , ,

b ut I wi ll send y o u a copy o f it .

Q What d o you consider the value g enerally speaking o f


.
, ,

the agricult ural lands of the Dominican Order ?


A I t is very d ifficult to arrive at They must have in
. .

creased o r d i mi n i s h e d i n value z
.

Q What did you consider the value in 1 89 6 before the rev


.
,

o lut io n ?
A I t is hard to give any estimate ; you might say before
. ,

four and fiv e mil lions in agricultural lands alone .

Q You have sold alre ady to a corporation but of course


. ,

y o u control that corporation because you hold a maj ority of the


stock ; therefore you could for this corporation sell this prop
et ty to the Government .

A All we have now o f course is shares o f stock


. , , .

Q Ye s ; but that m ajority sto ck gives y o u the right t o con


.

trol the corporation ; would you be willing to sell that t o the


G overnment ?
A We have the obligation which we have complied with to
.

s ell t o A ndrews ; the sale was made to Andrews and he afte r ,

ward s got up the company .

Q But with the unde rstanding that he was to get up t he


.

company ?
A That was o n e of the clauses in the contract that he
.

would form an as sociati on and that we would take a part of the


stock .

Q Of cours e you kno w that th e Government could take


.

t h e property if it choos e s ; that is for school purposes ; that ,

i s as they say in the Spanish l a w


,
expropriate as we say i n , ,

America condemn it paying its value But it i s a gr eat


, ,
.

deal bette r if we conclude that we need i t to settle the matte r


19
d Roma n zs tn
'

Tne Sen a t e Documen t an

out of t h e c ou r t s for court proceed ings mv w w x p n s s and


'

e e e ,

i t leaves a better feeling to settle the matter by contract and I


,

would like to know if you are in a situation t o arrive at an


agreement if we wan t the property ?
.
A B e sides the u n derstan ding we have with Andrews we
would have to consult the Holy See .

.
Q The Holy See has the good sense to trust to the d is cr e
tion o f the able head of the ord er who is here I t has been .

suggested a Senator of the United States sugge sted it to me


— that one of t h e means of avoiding the trouble which se emed

to exist here was to purchase the property of the relig ious or


ders and that if that evidence o f their ownership was removed
,

and the lands made Government property by the payme nt o f


money a large part o f the feeling against the orders would be
remove d I only ask it with a view t o bringing before the
,

commission the exact state of the case so that we may judge of


that suggestion .

.A The real r e as on why we conveyed our property to an


oth er par ty was to have n othing further to do with the ad min
i s tr at io n of t hese agricultural lands and to remove that com
plaint which was made against us that the friars owned all the
lands an d were making all the money .

.
Q I have no doubt that that was the purpose but I do ,

doubt if it will remove the entire d ifll c ul t y if it became known ‘

that the friars owned the majority of the stock I think it will .

be more effe ctually removed if the Government owned the prop


e r t y and sold it out in small parcels .

A The public see that we no longer have an y oste nsible


.

own ership do not admini ster it and have no interference in its


, ,

manag ement Besides that whenever money was paid for t h e


.
,

hacienda we would invest somewhere .

Q Yes but don t you think you could get more returns

,
.

than from these haciendas ?


A We could not invest it here
. .

Q Suppose you withdraw from parish work altogether I


. .

suppose you could fin d a lot of missionary work to do in these


islands and elsewhere ?
A Yes sir ; we would have plenty of mission work
.
, .

Q ; Archbishop Chapelle has told me t hat many of the order


were anxious to leave and that they re main e d largely at his
,

suggest ion .

A Yes s ir ; he has advised them to remain here


.
, .

Q There are two funds in the city the obras pias and ah
.
, ,

other obras pias called the miter fund ; Has your order an ln
t e r e s t in these funds ? Do you draw an income in those funds
which you administer in charitable work ?
A We receive the donation or ai ms which are paid by p ar
.

ties for the se obras pias such as for saying mass , .

Q Now that money is paid in and forms a fu n d which is


.
,

investe d by the head of the order ?


A These ob ra s pias are composed in this way : Spaniards
.

who have died and left i n their will instructions for so many
masses to be said and the money That money is partly placed .

in bank and they get interest on it The money is paid out to .

20
T/z e Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zr m

an

R E P OR T OF I N T E RV I E W H A D B Y TH E
P R E SI DENT O F T H E C O MMI SS I O N
W I T H R EV J U A N V I LLEGA S , HEA D .

O F T H E FR A NC I S CAN C OR P OR A T I O N
I N TH E PH I L I PP I N E I S LAN DS .

The President I suppose you un derstand that th e ques


tions whi ch I sent to the archbishop and which were doubtless ,

shown to you are questions which you are entirely at liberty to


,

answer or not I prepared them wi th a view to cov ering the


.

subject matter which has been d i s c us s e d p ub li c ly and to give


-

you as representing the Franciscan Order a n opportunity to


, ,

state your views concerning that matter .

Father Villegas — I th ank you for this meeting and for the
.

o p p or t uhi t y given to us to reply .

The President — When was your order founded ?


.

Father Villegas I t was founded by the Pope viva voce i n


.
.

, ,

1 2 1 0 an d by papal bull in 1 2 2 3
, .

The Presiden t — When was your order established i n the


Philippines ?
Father Villegas — June 2 4 1 577 .
, .

The President — I suppose that its functions and powers


.

under the papal authority are to be found in a number of papal


bulls .

Father Villegas Yes s ir .


,

The President — Generally the o b ject of t h e order i s of a


.

missionary character ?
Fathe r Ville gas Yes sir ; and to civilize the individual
.
, .

The President — And they are charged with the duty of


e nlarging the usefulness of the church i n f or e i n parts
g . .

Father Villegas — Yes ; and to preser v e a n d keep in the


.

faith those who have been converted We have missions all .

over the world .

The President — Have you lay members as well as priests ?


.

Father Villegas Yes s ir ; but o n ly a few relatively ;


.

, ,

they are mostly used for service in the houses of the members
of the ord er .

The President — How many priests did you have in the o r


der in the Philippine Islands in 1 89 6 ?
( The reverend father stated that a pamphlet or book had , ,

been prepared giving this an d much other data concerning the


,

Franciscan order but n o t having been home since morning he


,
,

did not have i t with him A messenger was sent for the pam .

phlet ; pending his return the co nversation pr o cee d ed as fol


-

lows 9

The Presid ent What political o r civil functions d id the


priests exercise und er the Spanish Crown i n the parishes to


which they were assigned ?
Father Villegas None ; th at i s excep t in so far as duties
.

,

were intr us te d to them or r e quire d of them b y the govern


, ,

ment for the reason that the parish priest was the party i n
,

whom they h ad t h e most con fide nce


'

The President — I understan d that It is that actual e u


.
.

22
T oe Sen a t e Doc um en t ’
Roma n zr m

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whic h they e xercis e d under the government t h at I would


t h o r it y
like to have expl ain e d .

Father Vill e gas T h e following may be mentioned as


.

among the prin cipal duties o r powers exercised by the paris h


priest : He was inspector o f pri mary sch ools ; president of the
health board and board o f charities ; president of the board o f
urban taxation ( this was est ab lishe d lately ) ; i n spector of taxa
t ion ; pre viously he was the actual president but lately honor ,

ar y president o f the board o f public work s


, .

He certified to the correctness o f the cedulas— seeing that


they conformed t o the entries in the parish books They did .

not have civil regis tration here and so they had to depend upon ,

the books o f the parish priest Thes e books were sent in for .

the purpo s e o f this cedul a taxation but were not received by ,

th e authori ties unless vise e d b y the priest - .

He was president of the board of statistics because he was ,

the only person who had any education He was asked to do .

this work so that better results could be obtained It was .

against the will of t h e paris h priest to do this but he could only ,

d o as he w as told If they refused they were told that they


.
,

were unpatriotic and not Spaniards If they had de clined they .


,

would have be e n removed from their charge He was president .

o f the census taki n g o f the town .

Under the Spanish l aw eve ry man had to be furnished with


a certifica t e o f character If a man was i mprisoned and he w as
.

from another town they w o uld s e n d to that other town for his
,
.

ante ce dents and the court would e x amine whether they were
,

good o r bad They would n o t be received however unless the


. , ,

parish priest had his vi s é o n them The priest als o certified as .

t o t h e civil status of p e rsons .

Every year they d r e w lots for those who were to serve in


the army every fif t h man drawn being taken The p arish pr iest
,
.

would certify as to that man s condition ’


.

The Presiden t — That develops a new fact that I have not


known before They raised the ar my here then by i mpress
. , ,

ment ; it was not optional ?


Father Villegas A11 by ballot Every y ear they would g o
.
— .

t o what they call the sacramental books an d get the names of


all those wh o were twenty years of age This li s t being certi .

fie d to by the parish priest the nam e s were placed in an ur n and


,

then drawn out Every fifth man was taken


.
.

The Presiden t — Was the service disliked by those selected ,

?
o r did they regard it as an opportunity
— The y disliked it Many of t hem would
Father Villegas .
.

take to the woods and the civil guard would have to go afte r
,

them an d br ing them back They would be put in j ail and .

guarded until they could be taken to the capital city There .

were many cases o f desertion .

— They never serve d anyw here except in the


The Presiden t

1 8 1M d s i
j
Villegas
F tz i h e r
' Only in the islands ? .

— Were they in the habit o f having the reg i


The President .

ments enlisted in o n e part of t h e islands serve i n another part ?


— A1 1 the men were brought to Mani la and
.

Father Villegas .

the regiments formed were ver y much mixed .

z3

Roma n zr m
'

T/te Sen a t e Documen t ana

(i td ev eloped that Rever e nd Viiieg as spoke with authority


in th is matter as he had b e en curat e for twenty y ears in the
,

northern p arts and had been t wenty five years i n the country
,
'
,

and always in the provinces ) .

President — Were you always in one part of the islands ?


The .

Father Ville gas — Yes ; I was where Tag alog was spoken .

Those who spoke Tagalog had to r e s i i e where Tagalog was s p o


ken They sent the priests t o the d ifier en t parts as young men
.

t o i e ar n the language and having lear n ed a particular language


,
,

he w as left to labor among tho se Wh o spoke it all his life ,


.

The P r esid e n t How lon g did it take a young priest to


-

earn e n ough l ag alo g to co n f e ss a parishion er ?


’‘

Father Villegas — In four o r fiv e month s th ey co uld f r e


.

quently und ersta nd each other perfectly ; in from eig ht months


to a year they could preach in the native tongue They learned
'

rapidly as they had n o Opportunity t o speak o r hear any other


,

langu age .

[ Proceeding with the enumeration of duties of th e priest


By law he h ad t o be present when there wer e elect ions for
municipal o filce s Very ofte n the p arish priest did not want to
.

but the people would come to hi m and say : Come for


g o
,
,

there will be disturbances and you will settle many d ifii c ui ,

ties .
"

He was censor of the municipal budgets before t hey were


sen t to the provincial gove rnor .

A gre at many of the duties I am now enumer ating were


given to t h e priests by the muni cipal law o f Maura .

He was also counselor for the municipal counsel when that


body met They would notify him th at they were going to
.

hold a meeting and i nvite him to be p r esent .

The pri ests were supervisors of the election of the police


force This also had to be submitted to the provincial gov
.

er n or .

He was examiner of the sch olars atte nding the first and
second grades in the public schools .

He was censor of the plays comedies and dram as in the ,

language of the count r y decidin g whethe r they were ag ainst ,

the public peace or the public mo r al s These pl ay s were p r e .

sent ed at the various fiestas of the people .

He was president of the prison b oard an d inspe ctor ( in ,

tur n ) o f t h e foo d provi ded for the prisoners .

H e was a member of the pr o vincial boar d Besides the '


.

par ish pr ie st there were two curat e s who served o n th i s board .

Before t h e provincial board came all m atters relating to pub lic


works and other cogna te matte rs All e s timat e s for public . .

buildin gs in the mu n icipal ities w e re s ub mit t ed t o t h is b o ard .

He was al s o a member of the b oard for p art itioning c rown


lands After the land was surveyed an d divided and a p e rson
.
,

wan ted t o s e ll his land he woul d present his ce rti ficate and t h e
,

boar d woul d pas s upon t h e q uestion whether o r not he wa s t h e


owner Thi s would be v i s e e d by the b o ar d 1 r purpo s e s f
.


r

taxatio n When a pr i vat e i n divid u al w ante d to b uy g o ver n me n t


land h e would apply to t h e prop e r o ffice r p ay his money a n d


, , ,

the bo ard would dete rmine whether the transfer was accordin g
t o l aw.
24
T/z e Sen a t e D oc um en t ’
Roma n zr m
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ana

In some cases the paris a prie s ts in t h e c ap itals o f the


provinces would act as auditors In some of these places there .

would be only the administrator and then t h e curate would ,

come in and act as auditor .

B esides the above there were other s mall things which de


volved upon t h e priest It migh t be sa id that there were times ,

however when nothing of moment was done in the towns


, .

The President — Was this before the Maura law ?


.

Father Villegas — Yes ; ver y often they interfered in these


.

matters for the bene fit o f the town itself Of c ourse the only .

thing intrusted to them was the spirit ual welfare of the people .

b ut they had t o do this o t her work be cause asked to do so by


the government .

The President — They wer e the best e ducated men i n the


town and me n of force ; indeed the only class who knew how ,

t o conduct matters .

Father Villegas — The paris h priest did not learn business


. .

while studying the ology but after he ente red upon his charge
,

i t was force d upon him .

The President — I am to ld that onc e t th e rules of the Cat h ,

olic chur ch is that the ex isting civil authority is to be supporte d ,

and that it is a rule o f your order as we ll .

Father Vil legas — Yes ; it is a rule of our church laid down


.

by the p e pe and by Jesus Christ


,

The President — Were al l the members o f your orde r loyal


.

to Spain while it was sovereign of the islands ?


Father Villegas — Yes sir .
, .

The President — Were there any but Spaniards mem bers of


.

the order in these islands ?


Father Villegas — They were all Spani ards but one a mes
.
,

t i z o who was born in the islands but was raised and educate d
,

in Spain .

The Presiden t — The fact is is i t not that the members of , ,

t h e Franciscan o r der were relied upon by the Spanish g overn


ment to ma intain its au thori ty in the parishes where t h e mem
bers o fii c iat e d and t hat ther e were many parishes where there
,

were no soldiers the priests bei ng the only ones who represent
,

ed the sovereignty o f Spain ?


Fath er Villegas — Yes ; for two hundred and sixty years
.

t h ere were n o Spanish soldiers here at all .

The P r esident — Did it not result by reason o f this t hat ,

when th e revolution came on those in favor of th e revolution


we re hostile t o the members of your order because they d id rep
re sent the Spanish government ?
Father Villegas — That is not the ca se so far as th e Francis
.

can s are concerned for when the insurrectio n broke o ut the


, , ,

natives got them out of the way so there would be no trouble .

Even the money they had in their houses was sent to them to
Manila by t h e insurgents .

The President — Were any of the order i mprisoned ?


Father Villegas — In the first insurrection nothing happened
.

to them I n the second ( 1 89 8 ) some were imprisoned


.
.

The President — How many were imprisoned and f or how


io n g
F at h e r Villegas .
— S eventy -
eight were imprisoned ; some
25
Tne Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zr m
'

an

thr ee month some fifteen an d some have just come in to dav


s
,
-
.

All are now r eleased ;

The Pr esiden t — Will you kindly refer to your state ment


(brought by t h e messenger) and tell me the number of mem ,

ber s of your order who were here in 1 8 96 ?


Father Villegas In 1 89 7 there were 2 4 0 members
.
— .

The President — Doe s that i nclude lay membe rs ?


F ather Villegas — Yes sir . , .

The President — How many lay members were there as com


.

pared with the priests ?


Fathe r Villegas — There were but eleven lay members
. .

The President —How were the priests of your or der sup


.

po rted during the time they acted as parish priests ?


F ather Vil lega s — Tho s e in Manila connecte d with th e S e
.

clety of St Fr ances were supported by what was left of the


.

"
aims given t o t h e p ar i s h priests in t h e provinces .

The President — Did the government pay any salaries to


the pri ests ?
Father Villegas — In the provinces they were paid salaries
.

— whatever the governor


would apportion th em If there was .

anything left over from this it was sent to Manila to support


t h e community o f St Frances . .

The Presiden t — What did those salaries amount t o ?


Father Villegas From five hundred t o twelve hundred
.

dol lar s accordin g to the size of the town


, .

The President — Then I suppose there were certain fees


.

charged for the administration of the sacrament ?


Father Villegas There was no ch arge f o r the sacrament
.

,

b ut where it was administered in co nn ection with marri age


there was a fee for the trouble o f performing th e m arriage cer
emony T h ese fees were for the church for the choir for the
.
, ,

sexton etc , .

The President — Did not the priest use any of this for him
.

self ?
Fath e r Ville gas — Yes sir ; he had a certain proportion
.
, .

The Pr e s id e n tt Were the fees to be charged fixed by the


-

bishop?
Father Vill e gas — By the bishop and approved by the cap
.
,

tai n general
-
.

The Presiden t — Who built t h e churches in which the mem


bers of yo ur order offi ciated ?
Father Villegas — T hey were bu ilt with the revenues of the
.

parish by donations from the people and t h e priest The gov


, .

er n b r al s o apportioned certain funds for church build ing


, , .

The President An d ther e were volun t ary donations by the


-

parishioners ?
Father Ville gas Yes by the paris hioners and by the
.

,

pr i ests t hemse lves Som e of the parish priests have them s elves
.

remained without a cent because they spe n t all their salary in


b uild ing the church .

The President — Were the churches buil t on a public square


— usually o n the plaza in the mi dle of the
d to w n ?
Fathe r Villegas l h e governor would d e signate the spot
’ ‘
-
.

where the church was to be built .

The President — An d t h at was o n governm e nt property ?


26
Tne Sen a t e Docum en t d Roma n zs fn
'

an

Father Villegas — If it was anything but government prop


.

arty it was paid for out of the funds o f the church .

The President When y o u purchased land i n this way in


whom was the title placed ?


Father Villegas I t was placed in the name of the parish
.

priest ; b ut as parish priest an d not in his individual right , .

T h e President — Will you kindly state what agricultural .

lands o r haciendas your order own s in the islands ?


Father Villegas W e d o not o wn any .
— .

The President Have y o u never o wned haciendas ?


Father Villegas No sir ; we are not allowed to own them


.

, .

It is for this reason that all the members of the order who live
in Manila are supported by what is left over fro m what is given
the parish priests .

The Presiden t You did not own any property before 1 8 9 5 ?


Father Villegas Only the h ouses in which we live We


.
— .

do not o wn any suburban property at all We have here in Ma .

nila near Sam Paloc a convent o r parsonage a half convent at


, , ,

Santa Ana and two in fir mar i e s one at Santa Cruz and one at
, ,

Nue va Caceras .

T h e President — Do you o w n any property in the city o f


.
'

Manila o r in any other parts of the islands used for rental


, ,

purposes ?
Father Villegas W e do not We are not allowed to hold
.
— .

The Presid e nt You own no property . therefore except



,

houses which are used by y o u to live in and chur ches used for
devotional purposes ?
F ath er Villegas — That is all . .

The President Is there far ming land in connection with


them ?
F ather Villegas — Noth ing but kitchen gardens I n t h e
. .

prov in ce o f Al b ay a we had a college for secondary instruction ,

but that has been burned .

The President When a priest was assign ed to work in a


.

c ertain parish was there any rotation ?


,
D id he go to another
to wn after he had served i n one for a number of years ?
Father Villegas There was no r o tation .
— Some of the .

priest s re mained in the same place until they died Some have .

lived in the same town for thirty or forty years ; elsewhere as ,

long as the people wanted them .

The President Was there a supervision exercised over


t he priests engage d in parish work ?
Fathe r Villegas — A supervision was exercised over them
.
.

The provincial visited every one o f them once a year .

The President Were cases o f immorality ever broug ht to


.

the attention o f the order and disciplined ?


Father Villeg as That was the very purpose of these yearly
.

visits o n the part o f the provincial Besides this he had r e p . ,

r e s e n t at iv e s in the province who kept a close supervision over


these people If found delinquent they would be punished
.
,

and even expelled f rom t h e order .

T h e President Were th e re any cases of immorality ; and


.

if so how many speaking generally ?


, ,

27
Tue Sen a t e Documen t

Roma n zs m
'

an a

Father Villegas There have been case s b ut they were


. ,

rare I cannot tell how many


. .

The President I do not ask the question to condemn y o u


'

— .
.

A priest living in this wild country far removed from his home
, ,

and people is liable to fall They are human


, . .

Father Villegas That is understood .

The President — It has been said that one of the grounds


for the reported hostility to the religious orders ge n erally has
been the fact that there was immorality among the priests .

What have you to say to that ?


Father Villegas They who accuse should prove I do
. .

not believe that is the real cause for the hostility


I do not believe it either
.

The Presid ent .


, .

Father Villegas — I have been a parish priest for a long


time and I can truly s ay that as a matter of fact the Ind ians
.

, , ,

have no complaint to make on this ground It is only when .

they get angry that they mak e these accusations One of the .

proofs o f this is the gene ral chas t ity o f the Filipino women .

They are what they have seen and what they have been taught .

The President I h ave been very much grati fied to hear


.

that the women of the Philippine s generally ar e ch aste in their


way I believe it is owing greatly to the teachings of the
.

church But the Filipino women seem to have a little di fferent


.

ide a of chastity from that which prevails in ot her countries .

F o r instance they do not always insist on the existence of the


,

sacrame n t of marriage befo re living with a man .

Father Villeg as I do not believe there has been much of


.
-

tha t When they do go to live with men in that way they know
.

it is agai n st the te achings of the church .

The President Has the example set by t h e F ilip ino priests


.

in this re s pe c t been particularly good ? Is not the Filipino


priesthood a distin ctly inferior set intellectually both in matter ,

of le arning and in matter of morality ?


Father Ville gas You are to j udge of that The com
.

.

manders of the garrisons i n the differen t towns can inform you .

If the d ay should ever come when the regular clergy should t e


turn to their parishes the n the commanders of the American
,

forces can see and appreciate the difference between the present
pries t s and the for mer ones The towns alread y remember .
.

T h e President — I t has been suggested to me and it is a


,

very strong arg ument that the charges of immorality brought


,

against the friars is not t h e real cause of hostility again st t hem .

becau s e an argument much stronger than that could be brought -

against th e F ilipino priests yet they do not seem to share that


,

hostility If the people are so sensitive upon that subject they


.

,
have mu ch stron ger reason for it now .

Father Villegas — The whole thing is a question o f color


.
.

The A mericans as well as Spaniards are getting it because of


our color an d features .

T h e Pr e sident Was it possible un der the Spanish regime


.
-

to secure the deportation of any member of his parish by r e pr e


sentin g to the governor that the party was a dangerous member
of socie ty
Fathe r V ille gas No sir .
, .

h e President Was this neve r done ?


28
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t and R om a n zr m
'

The Pres ident W he re d id the o t h e r s b ?


. u

Father Villeg as t h e y a l l retur n ed to Spain and from


. ,

th ere they were sent t o S o uth America to Cuba and two were , ,

sent to China These latte r were up t h e river beyond Shanghai


. ,

an d are now out o fif .

The Presiden t Is your ord e r largely represented in China ?


Father Villegas There are q uite a number . .

The Presiden t — Did the insurgent government at Malolos


pass any law against your order or against your property ,

F at h cr V illegas — The only thing i t did was t o concede lib


e r t y t 0 the priests who were imprisoned but the law was not
'

carrie d i n to e ffect at once .

The President — Did not the parliament at Malolos pass a


.

law c on fis c at i n g the property of the religio us order s ? Did this


.

apply to your order or properties ?


Fat her Villegas Not having any property it did not aff e ct
.

.

us The question of funds and property has never troubled us


.

There is one other q uestion I want to as k


. .

The President . .

Has your or d e r any interest in the O b ra s Pia s ?


Father Villegas N0 i n terest . .

The President — None of t h e revenues are distributed to


.

you ?
Father Villegas — All that we have is such as is given to
.

u s i n the way of aims as is give n to the poor , .

The President Have you a representative on the board


of the Obras Pias ?


Father Villegas The third ord er which is not com po sed
.

,

of anoin ted priests has a representative o n the board but they


, ,

d o not belong to our or d er


The Presi d ent Is the third order a F r an c i s c an o r d e r ?


.

F ather Villegas — While related to the Franciscans they


.
,

d o not belong to t h e or d er .

The President Does this third orde r own any property ?


.

Fathe r Villegas Yes sir .


, .

The President Do the y o wn haciendas ?


.

Father Villegas They own property as private indi


.

v id ual s .

The President But they have a representative o n the


.

board of the Obras Pias ?


Father Villegas Yes sir .
, .

The President — Out of the income received by the Ob as


. r

Plas they receive a par t of the money ?


Father Villegas — Yes ; they receive something from the
.

Obras Pias .

The President Does the third order g i ve you any thing ?


.
-

Father Villegas i b ey give us a small do n ation They


.

' ‘

also g ive to maidens who have n o dowry to get married who ,

belong to the ord er and to young men to go to school etc,

For in stance I am a private individual an d d ie in my will I


, .

leave to be distributed at the rate of $2 a year to the poor .

The money is placed in the bank an d o ut of the procee ds $2 is ,

paid every ye ar The money is ap portioned out and we get a


.

cer tain p o rtion T h e c o r p or t i o n itself is entirely foreign to it


.
.

The President I am very much obliged to you for coming


.
-

30
Tue Sen a t e Docum en t d Roma n zr m
'

an

to see me and for the i nterest in g f acts which you have c o mmu
,

nine ted I am sorry t o have t aken s o much o f your time


.
.

Father Villegas — I t h as been a pleasure t o us to meet y o u


.

and to te ll you what we knew We are entirely at your serv ice .


,

and will be glad at any time t o furnish you whate ver infor ma
tion is within our power .

TH E OR DE R O F A U G U S T I NI ANS— TH E
V E R Y R E V E R END JO S E L O B O .

Q I . am very much obliged to you and the father for


com ing .

A There is no reason for it w h atever ; we are glad to give


.

y o u any information we have .

Q How old is your order ?


.

A We are the first ones that ca me here with the conqueror


.
,

Le gaspi .

Q Not in the
.

A From the four th century named afte r the great Au


.
,
~

gustin .

Q When did the order come to the Philippines ?


.

A In 1 56 5
. that is to the island o f Cebu — we came t o ,

Manila in 1 5 7 1 the foundation o f the city


, .

Q A r e its powers and functions contained in one lustra


.

ment or in a number o f papal bulls ?


,

A After the approval o f the order by the Pope there was


.
,

a constitution made for the order and that constitution we have ,

n o w but it is a very large book and is written in Latin


, .

Q And it has been amended from time to time ?


.

A Corrections are made in the constitution


.

Q Now I presume the constitution authorized you t o do


.

.
,

missionary work and enlarge the usefulness o f the church ?


Yes s ir : we are organiz e d for missionary work Manila
, .

is t h e principal point and from here we have organized various


,

departments ( Gives the president a book o f the order in the


.

Orient ) .

Q Has the order lay members as well as priests ?


.

A Yes sir ; quite a few about 2 1 ; that is there were 2 1


.
,

,

at o n e time Now there are about 8 or 1 0


. .

Q H o w many prie sts had the order in the islands in 1 8 9 6 ?


.

A Thr ee hundred and eighte en priests includ ing lay mem


. ,

bers those stud ying t o become priests provincial priests an d


, , ,

t hose in Manila
Q I shall also fin d in this book which you have kindl y
.

g iven me a list o f the cities and to wn s in which the Augustin


ians had parish priests .

A Yes sir In i locos Norte and Sur Union Pampanga


. , . , , ,

Bulacan Nueva Ecij a Tarlac 9 in Manila 7 or 8 in Batangas


, , . , ,

o n e half the island of Cebu Iloilo A n t in g ua Capiz and the dis


-
, , ,

trie t o f Conception .

Q What civil or political functions did the priests o f your


.

order exercise under the Spanish Crown i n the parishes over


which they presided ? I d o not mean what was written in t h e
law but the actual functions vvh ic h they discharged ?
,
al
Tue Sen a t e Documen t ana

Ro mm ma
'

A The provi n c ial whoe ver h e might be; was the adviser
.
, ,

o f the a d ministra t ion Wheneve r h e desired to leave the town


.

he asked p e rmission of the c ap tai n general or governor o f the -

province The priests interve n ed or to ok part in the election


"

of local presidentes ; in the levy of soldiers ; they also f o r med


schedules that indicated the names o f all the individu als who
were subject to taxation ; they took part in the inspect ion o f
schools ; in public works They exercised these functions by
.

orde r of the g o v er n o r o f the archipelago o r by order of the


Government of Spain .
a;

Q One of the rules of the chu r ch as I have heard it ex


.

pounde d and doubtless of your orde r is that the existing con


, ,

stituted authority shall always be respected ?


A The law of t h e gospel is that everyone shall pay due
.

respect to the organized government and to all laws that are i n


existence .

Q And the members of your order were loyal to Spain dur


.

ing the revolution ?


A Yes sir ; every o n e of them
.
, .

Q I omitted to ask whether you have any natives in your


.

order ?
A No ; all Spaniards We had in the past century a few
.
.

natives in the order but they did not prove very efficient and
,
,
we let the m go .

Q Was it not a fact that in a greater part of these islands


.

there were no Spanish soldiers and no Spanish police t o main


tain the sovereignty of Spain ?
A There were very few Spanish soldiers here the priests
.

in each province being a sort of a colonel and at the ti me I ,

came there were or 8 0 0 0 native militia .

Q So that in a great majority of towns where the parish


.

priests of your order officiated those prie s ts were really the ,

only represen t atives of Spanish sovereignty ?


A The priest was the only Spaniard in a great many of the
.

towns. I myself have exercised priestly functions in four or


fiv e cities where I h ave bee n the only man with a white face
.

Q Did not this fact arouse against the members o f your


.

ord er the enmity of those engaged in the revolutions of 1 89 6


and 1 8 9 8 a
A Yes sir ; th at is a fact Rizal Blo o me n ti l Gregorio
.
, .
, ,
del Pil ar (now dead ) began a movement against the friars
,
knowing very well that i f they remo ved t h e pedestal o r f o un d a
tion of s overeignty of Spain in th e s e i slands
that at that mo
ment the whole structure would topple over and in their secr et ,
ord er they began a movement against the friars
creatin g a bad
fe eling against them
,
.

Q H o w were the priests of your order acting as parish


.

priests supp orted ?


,

A As there was u n ity between the church and the state


.

the state gave to the parish priests certain ’ ,

compensation and
beyond this the church h ad fixe d tari ffs for instance fr m ,

o
-

singing ; the people i n some case s making them p r esents and ,

between these sources of reven ue they mai n tained ,

themselves
Q In your order how large a salary was paid to the priest
.
.

s
by the Government ?
32
Tue Sen a t e Docum en t ’
Roma n zs m
'

an a

A They were organized into three classes ; the first r e


.

c e i ve d per ann um the second $80 0 an d the third $6 0 0


, , , . ,

and then y o u must deduct fro m that 1 0 per ce nt ,money that


was returned to the Government .

Q That is the Government paid out a salary and then took


.
,

part of it back ?
A This 1 0 per cent tax was imposed on all salaries n o t
.
,

only t h e priests b ut the military department to fight any revo ,

Iut io n . It was a temporary afiair .

Q Yo u r e c e i ve d fee s for christening for burials and for


'

.
, ,

mar riages ? How were the amounts fixe d ?


A The priest himself charg ed nothing for the rite of bap
.

t i s m except that he received the tribute of o n e e i gh t h o f a dol


,

lar and this money went to the fund s of the church It did
,
-

not become the personal property o f the priest F or marriages .

he received but out of this he had to turn into the funds


of the church the eighth portion of two d o llar s b e i n g the s um ,
\

o f 3 5 cents ; and the other 2 5 cents he also had to turn in there ,

fore he had remaining the sum o f For the burial of a


child the fee was 7 5 cents ; f o r the burial of an adult ,

T hese were the tariffs that were imposed as a rule but if the ,

person to be married o r if the relatives o f the person to be


,

buried desired greater services more music more ringi ng of , ,

bells then we levied a special fee


,
.

Q Who built the churches and the conventos in which the


.

priests o f your order o fii c i at e d as parish priests ?


A These edifices were constructed from the funds of the
.

church
Q That is funds o f the particular parish ?
. ,

A Each p arish had its o wn particular fu n ds and from


. ,

these funds they were constructed In times gone by tribute s .

were levied called d ie s mo s and from these fun d s edifices



,

were constructed It happens that in all countries acquired b y


.

Spain in Mexico in South America thi s d i e s mo s tax has


, , ,

been imposed for the purpose b f erecting edifices ; but Pope


suppressed the levy of this tax and recently a tax cal led san ,

toru m has been levied I cannot be certain that the Pope sup
.

pre ssed this but I know that he gave the kings authority to
,

impose the santorum These funds we r e placed at the dis


.
"

posal o f the parish priests The bishop exerc ised general au .

t h o r i t y but there were certain funds each parish had


.

Q Now the Santor um or what was before that the



. ,

d i e s mo s was a contribution levied on the people of the p ar


,

ish to build the churches Was that a volun tar y cont ribution . ,

o r was it a regular tax


?
A All Catholic residents of the parish were requi red to
.

p ay it .

And they were all Catholics ?


Q .

A Ye s sir ; it was a special fee imposed on all Catholics


. ,

O f fi p r ish
g lt
.

i o w coming to the twe lfth question what agricultural


,
,

pr operties did the Augustinian order o wn 1 n the 1 s l an d s ?


A At the present time it owns t wo small h ac 1 e n d as one in
.
,

An gs t and the other in G au d al up e But thi s o n e i n G aud al up e .

33

T/z e Sen a t e D ocumen t ana Roma n ir m
is a very small afiai r and can hardly be called a hacienda The
,
.

one i n Angat is al s o very small .

Q How much property h ad you before the revolution o f 1 89 6 ?


.

A In 1 89 3 we sold the gr e ater portion of our proper ty


.
.

Q To whom we re they sold ?


.

A To a Spanish corporation
. I think there was an Eng .

lishman in the corporation .

Q And you took as part payment stock in the new corpora


.

tion ?
A Yes sir ; we have more than half the stock
. ,
.

Q Now if you w ill go back befor e 1 89 3 I would like t o


. , ,

know what agricultural lands you owned ?


A A great many and very good ones Here in Man ila we
. .

had three or four good ones Taking all the acreage we had .
,

cultivated and uncultivated probably hectares through ,

o ut the archipelago .

Q Can you distribute that acreage ?


.

A The large one was in Cag ay e n


. hectares call ed , ,

S t Augustin Colony This hacien d a is in the province o f



'


. .

Isabela but it is ge n erally called Cag ay en Tobacco alone was


, .

raised but coffee and sugar could be r aised Only a small por
, .

tion was cultivated .

In Cavite : San Francisco d e Malabon hectares c ul , ,

t iv at e d in rice and sugar .

In Manila : Malinta hectares ; Man d alo a , hec , r

tares an d Monte Lupa


, hectares cultivate d chiefly rice
, , .

In Cebu : Talisay hectares sugar and rice ; a great


, ,

deal of sugar We had a plant and machinery There were


. .

two parcels of land but they were under one name ; simply o n e
,

administration of the entire property .

In Bulacan : Two small haciendas under rice cultivation .

Angat 600 hectares ; Quingua 9 8 7 ; and Guin to 9 00 hectares


, , , .

Those I have mentioned do not belong t o us now except ,

th e ones at Angat and G aud alup e of which I first spoke


, .

Q A r e there any others you have sold except those men


.

t i o n e d here ?
A Yes sir ; o n e called Pasay 4 80 hectar es was sold year s
.
, , ,

ag o t o Warner Barnes Co , .

Q And you have no inte rest in that ?


.

A No sir ; it was an absolute sale This includes all th e


.
, .

pr operty we n o w own or have owned .

Q How were these properties farmed when you owned


.

t hem ; how did you get income from them ?


A We cultivated the lan d s and on properties that we
.
re ,

dry we built ditches and canals and irrigate d all the property , .

For instance at Malab o n we spent $400 0 i n the buil d ing o f


,
'

d itches and d ams .

Q Now did you rent that property after improving it o r


.

,
did y o u farm it y ourselves ?
A We rente d out the e s tates to different tenants but gen
.

, .

o rally these rentals d i d 1 c t amount to more than


o ne half what -

ordinary in di viduals paid f o r o t h e r properties


.
'

Q Did the same tenan t continue t o use th ese p arcels an d


.

did it go down in the family from one generation to another ?


34
T/z e Sen a t e D oc um en t

Roma n zs m
'

an a

.A Yes si r ; the prope rty went from fat her t o so n and


, ,

they ret ained posse ssion for many years and there were gre at ,

efforts made t o secure thes e properties .

.
Q And suppose a famil y that had such a privile ge des ire d
t o se l l it were they able t o d o so ?
,

.A They c ould n o t without the permission o f the ad min is


trato r , be cause we would expose ourselves to the possibili t y o f
s ome o n e comin g in wh o would damage the proper t y .

.
Q You retaine d th e c ont ro l to say who should be tenants ,

but was n o t th e privil ege o f being a tenant on certai n piece s of


'

land r eg ar d e d as valuable so that that privilege was sold by one


,

t o another provided the consent f o r the tran sfer was obtain ed


,

from th e administ rator ?


.A They alway s retained possession of these propertie s
afte r once securing them because they receive d more bene fits
,

from t hi s proper t y t han from occupyi ng ot h er p r op er t y .

Q I f ear you have not made my questi on clear t o th e fath


..

er.
( Re peats question ) .

A Of t hat I can give you no particular in format ion bec ause


.

I have n o t bee n o n the hacienda s but I will say th at without


,

the cons en t of th e admi nistra tor he could not sell but if he se ,

cur e d th e conse nt o f th e administr ato r he certainly could .

.
Q Who collec ted the rents ? Was it the p ari sh priests in
t h e immedia te neighborhood o r did you have persons espe,

c ially delegated for that particular p urpose ?


A In An g s t there is a nati ve of the town t hat collects th e
.

rent s ; in San Francisco de Malabon it was a lay member ; in


Mali nta a lay member ; in Mandaic s a lay member ; in Qui ng ua
and Guinto the same parish priest received and cellect ed t h e
rents becau se they were smal l place s and the natives were very
g oo d in payin g their rents .

Q How long had the or der held these various estates befor e
.

th ey so ld th em ?
A Th e oldest reco rd s ar e t hose t hat were made in the s ix
.

t ee n t h cen tury We have some of the eighte enth In th e year


.
.

1 8 7 7 the corporation ac qui red posses sion of th e hacie nda at S an


F ranci sco de Malabon by purcha se from the Count of Ave lac h e
an d various ot her own ers and another porti on of thi s same os
,

ta te was acquired fr om Mons Cazal by ex change o f prop er t y


. .

Q . Those were pu r chas e s and not benefits ?


A Yes sir ; we have bou ght all of our property Ver y
. ,
.

few pieces of property have ever been given to the corporati on .

Q Now this es at Have o u held that for a


'

in Cag aye n
'

. t e y .

long time ?
A I wish to ex ce pt the estate in Cag ay en for this propert y
. ,

was ce ded t o us by the government o f Spain on the 2 5th o f


Apri l 1 8 80 as will appear from royal order o f th at day We
, ,
.

spe nt an immense s um of money on this est ate an d have h ad ,

but slight r e t urns for it We have cleared up th e lands; an d it


.

h as be en placed in a state o f cultivation .

1 8 8 0 ; San Fr an cis co de Mal


QN . o w Ca a
g y e n was ceded in
abo n in 1 877 Now how about th ese estates in Manila ?
.

A These four in Mani la are very old ; Mali nta in 1 745 an d


.
,

a p or ti on in 1 838 .

35
T/ze Sen a t e D ocumen t d Roma n zstn
'

an

Q Were these purchases ?


.

A Yes sir ; all purchases


.
,
.

Q . Man d al o a ?
A One half of the property was acquired by an exchange
.

o f property from the Dominican fathers We exchanged an


h acienda with them for this property i n the year 1 6 9 2 ; another
portion of it was acquired by pur chase in 1 65 4 and still another ,

portion was acquired by purchase i n 1 6 75 and another s mall ,

piece was secure d in 1 69 9 .

o Monte Lupa ?
y Purchased in the year 1 6 6 5 by the corporation .

p Cebu ?
> Purchased in the year 1 7 3 4 .

o Q uin gua ?
> Purchased at public auction in 1 83 4 .

o A ngat ?
> The date d o e s not appear in the record but it appears ,

that part of it was secured by purchas e and part by exchange .

I believe it w as in the century past but I am not sure , .

Q Guinto ?
.

A Pos s ession acquired i n 1 7 5 4 by purchase


. .

Q How much is the estate at Guadalupe ?


.

A I t contains 85 hectares part acquired by purchase and


.
,

part through pious donations .

Q What property whether improved or not did you own


.
, ,

in the ci ty of Manila for rental pur poses ?


A We own the convent o f the sixteenth centur y
. It is .

the most s o lid structure in the Philippines the chur ch and con —

vent Th e one with the bridge across the s t reet The build
. .

ings o n both s ides are ours We have thirty members o f the


.

order l i ving in this h ouse and j ust as soon as I am able to de


crease the n umber unde r my care I want to sell th is house I
,

, .

am v ery an xious to sell it The first house is ours but j ust ad


.
,

joinin g is the house o f the Jesuits The bridge communi .

cates
Q I unde rstand you to say that you own no improved prop
.

e r t y of a n y sort in Manila for rental p urposes ?

A No . .

Q D o you own any vacant lots in the city ?


.

A The lot i n S an Mar c i l i n o only


.
I t contains square .

meters bought by the corporation in 1 8 8 3 It was bought for


, .

the purpose of erecting an orphanage asylu m .

Q Do you own an y improved property in other cities in


the islands ?
A In Cebu we o wn so me lots but the rents are very small
.
, .

We h ave a magni ficent structure in Iloilo that cost


but at the beginning of the present trouble it was taken pos
sessi on of an d now it is u s ed as a barracks
, .

Q W a s t h at c o ntem plated for a h a b itation for monks ?


.

A It w a s built for the purpose o f teaching to be a sort o f


.

college an d when i t was finished the war with America came


.

o n a n d this structure b e ing o ut of to wn was not


,
burned and it ,
1 8 now occupi ed by A merican troops They are no more .
.

Q A s to the custom of the order in retaining t h e same


.

36
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t K oma n zr m
'

and

mean s they would not reveal their whereabout s As a r ule .

th ey received many gifts and things to e at from th e Indian s ,

and afterward s they were well treated At th e beginning th ey .

were badly tre ated


Q I th ink y o u have answere d the question as t o the caus e
.

o f hosti li t y against the p r iests but I may ask again wheth e r


.

yo u att ribute it to the political position that the priests n e ce s sa


r ily occ upied in the p arishes represe nting the Span ish crown .

A The Government o f Spain in t h e Philippines can be


.

compared to a round table having but o n e leg and that leg in ,

the center of the table the friar here being the leg and th e
,

sole support of the main body o f the table The heads of the .

K atipunan organiz ation realiz ing that to tumble the whole


, ,

structure it was necessary first to destroy the fo undation b e ,

gan this disturbance by criminating the friars telling lies about ,

them and for this reason the hostility arose toward t h e friars ;
,

but th e Katipunan heads were the only ones that really h ad any
hostil it y toward the friars as is proven by the fact t hat the
people in the pari sh are an xious for their re turn
,

Q How man y members of your order are now in the


islands and where are they l iving ?


,

A One hundre d and forty and they live in thes e two


house s we have talked of In Hon g k o n g we have six o r seven
. ,

studyin g English and in Ma cao we h ave twenty six or twen ty


.

-
,

seven Origin ally we were three hundred and eighte en as I


.
,

have stated .

Q Considering those killed and those remainin g in the


.

islands how man y have left here have gone back to Spain to
, , ,

South America or elsewhere ? ,

A Since the year 1 89 8 there have left to Spain ninety


.
,

eight to Macao twenty six to the Chinese missions in the


,
-

pr ovince of H anan thre e t o the Republic of Colomb ia ten t o


, ,

Braz il eight Peru five Hongkong s ix


, , The to t al of those who .

have left the islands is one hundred and fif ty six There may -
.

be an er ror or so but this is approx imate ly correct


,

Q They are at present supporte d I suppose in Mani la


.

.
, ,
here by the funds of the order ?
A Yes sir
.
, .

Q Did th e i nsurgent government at Malolos pass a law


.

c o nfis c at i n
g th e p r operty of your order ?
A Yes indeed ; they passed man y laws c o n fis c at in g every
.
. .

thing we had .

Q Did they attempt to collect rents from those haciendas


.

that are held by the corporations to whom you transferred your


property ?
A I cannot state as to that but I suppose that they did
.
, .

Q At least that was the case with respect to the Domin i


.

can e sta t es ; so I e m i nforme d by Mr An d rews to whom th ey .


,
were sold ?
A Yes sir ; I suppose t hat is true but wit h refer en ce t o
.
,

o ur own property I can not st ate positi vely


,

Q Can you te ll me the value o f your agricultural property


.

— th e hect ares — before i t was sold— just a gener al esti


mate ?
88

T/z e Sen a t e Doc um en t Roma n zs m

an a

A The haciendas possessed by the Augustinian fathers


.

were the best in the Philippines I cannot tell you exactly


.

some million s — possibly t e n o r twelve millions If sold at a .

time when we had peace and property were good they would .

be worth a g reat deal more .

Q Can you give me the income from those haciendas ?


.

A The total rental we secured in the year 1 89 1 amount ed


.
f

to O f course these properties were never rented at


the figure we could have obtained as we charged con siderably ,

le ss than others .

Q Do yo u think that the corporations that own the prop


.

e r t y n o w would be willing t o sell to the Government ?

A Yes sir ; they do not desire to administer the property


.
, .

They are willing to sell in my opinion to t h e one offering the


most .

Q Does your ord e r insist on doing parish work or would


.
,

you be willing t o do missionary work alone ?


A Whatever the pope or apostolic delegate says
Q I have un derstood I think from the apostolic delegate
. .

. , ,

that the members of the order would prefer to go elsewhere ,

but that he had detained them ?


A Whate ver is commanded whatever is ordered
.
, .

Q Now about the obras pi as


. How large a share of the .

obras pias did your order obtai n ? D oes it vary o r is it fix ed ?


A I am the president o f the board myself and we only
. ,

handle a very small amount and we as an order secure , , ,

nothing from this fund .

Q But I suppose when there ar e sacraments to be per


.

formed by reaso n o f requirements in wills of deceased masses


t o be said t hat they assign that work to the different orders

and a certain amount is paid to the orde r for performing that


service ?
A Well suppose that a person dies and leaves so
'

.
,

that masses s h o ul d b e said This money goes to the province .

where the sacraments are performed For instance i n a cer . ,

tain province so much money is left then so many masses are ,

said.

Q Have y o u a l arge amount of money lent out here o n


.

hemp and such things ?


A No
Q The mite r I believe is administ ered by the archbishop ?
. .

. , ,

A Yes sir
. , .

Q And he assigns the work to be done under the provi s


.

ions o f that fund ?


A We have charge of the pios fund and works that are
.

erected edifice s constructed by the miter fund we have


charge o f those works That is the board of which I am presi
, ,

dent
The President — Expression of thank s
.

. .

The Provincia1 — We are always glad t o give you any in f or


.

mation that we have and you may rest assured that the in f o r
,

mation we give you— those that wear the cassock will be the
,

truth and yo u will fin d out at the termination of your exami na


,
r

ti on that what information we have given you has bee n more


r eli ab le t han what y o u have procured from the me z t i z o s .

39

Tue Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zr m
'

an a

U U 2 A G ST , 1 9 00 .

RE COLET OS P RO V I N C I AL V E R Y — R EV .

F R A NC I S C O A R AYA .

When was your order first organized ?


The order was founded in the year 1 60 2 .

When did it first come to the Philippines ?


In 1 60 6 four ye ars after i t s foundation and it has been
, ,

here continuously since then .

I presume that its functions and powers i n the church are


defined by a charte r o r constitution by the Pope ?
In the year 1 60 2 the constitution under which the organ iza
tion was founded was approved by Pope Clementine the E ighth .

And that constitution with amendments established it as a


r eligious order within the Catholic Church for the purpose of
en larging the work and doin g missionary work ?
Yes sir ; under the constitution approved by the Pope the
,

order is a religious one having in view the civilization of peo


,

ple who require or need it and the Christianizing of all i ndi


v id ual s .

And your work l ies c h ie fiy along missionary lines ?


Yes s ir , .

Have you bran ches o f your Order in oth er parts of t h e


w orld besides the Phi lippines ?
We have a colle ge in Spain to educate the young men ena ,

bling them to join our order We have also a co lle ge in the .

United States and they are sent here as a general rule We


, .

have the head of our order in Rome but o f course above him is ,

the Pope We are doing mission ary work in Panama Re public


.
,

o f Colombia Brazil and in some other South American coun


. ,

t r ies
.

Has the ord er lay members as well as priests ?


We have about nine lay members here .

How many priests had the order in the islands in 1 8 9 6 ,


before the revolution began ?
In 1 89 5 we had 8 44 and of this number 2 6 were lay
,

members .

And t his book to which reference has been mad e I p r e


, ,

sume contains a statement of the towns and villages in which


,

your members officiate d as parish priests ?


Yes sir ; and I present it to you with pleasure
, .

What civil and political functions did the pri ests o f your
order exercise in their parishes under the Government o f Sp ain ?
The priests of their o wn will exercised no poli tical func
ti ons but at the request of the authorities they exercised many
,

functions For instance they might obtain the number i n a


.
,

settlement who should pay taxes ; they also might formul a te a


census ; they also might send a report to the governor as to th e
number of legal actions that had taken place in the co urts o f
first instance there .

Did t hey ever exercis e judicial functions at all ?


No sir ; they exercised no judicial functions but when t h e
,
,

40
Th e Se n a t e D oc umen t ’
Roma n zr m

an a :

authorities wanted to k now about any criminal acts they would


send t o the little governor and then g o to the priest f o r con

fir mat i on .

Did they have any duty in connection with enlisting men


for the army ?
No s ir ; those who formed the army here would appear to
,

d o so by chance They had cards and drew lots to see who


.

wo uld form the army and the priest supervised that drawing, .

What p art did they have in the admi nistration o f the


schools ?
They were local inspectors that visited the schools and
found out after careful investigation as t o whether or not the
te achers were performing their duties properly and whether o r
not the chil dren were attending
Were they called m as advisors in matters of public work s ?
,
'

Speakin g o f government works there have been few per ,

formed in the islands Outside public roads there have been .

none and in that reports were asked of the par ish priests as to
,

whether the work was performed according to speci fications .

In how many towns i n which your order o fil ciat e d as parish ‘

priests were there soldiers o r other people representin g the


Crown o f Spain beside the priest ? ,

Soldiers they had none recently they had a sort o f civil


guard .

That guar dia civil was a b ad thing ?


Yes sir ; they abused their privilege The instit ution is a
, .

good one but they abused their authority


, .

Was it not a fact that for a great many years in these i s l


ands the parish priests repres ented Spain the government in , ,

all that there was o f law an d order in the parishes ?


6 Absolutely Up to the year 1 8 7 9 1 8 8 0 when they sent this
.

,

gu ardia civil seven or eight men i n each town— they had no


'

o n e t o represent the Spanish government outside the priest .

At the capital o f the d iii er e n t provin ces t hey had a few soldiers ,

but outside that none .

So tha t any hostility to the crown o f S pain among the


people was against the priest as representing the government
o f Spai n ?
Absolutely There has been no resentment and no ill feel
.

i n g o r hostility against the priests whatever up t o the time o f


the revolution and that feeling has germinated right here i n
,

Man ila and has been spread through sources here in Manila .

But the revolutionists those active in getting it up and , ,

those wh o sympathized with them in their attacks o n Spain did ,

cultivate a h ostility against the priests because they represente d


t h e power o f S pain .

There was really no feeling in the provi nces against the


priests and as I have said before this feelin g was spread by
, ,

the heads o f the revolution by those wh o had political aspir a ,

tions and something to gain by a revolution A great many o f


,
.

them came from Manila They formed o r were a part o f the .

Spanish government — that is clerks sei ne o f them in the , ,

courts— and they went to the small towns and knowing a little ,

more than the simple coun try people they spread rumors ,

41
Docum en t

Roma n zr m
'

Th e Sen a t e an a

against the priests and the priests made efforts to prote ct the
,

people and this brought up hostile feel ing .

How were the priests of your order supported when they


act e d as parish priests ?
They were supported by the stipend paid by the govern ment
and also by the tariffs and by the charges imposed upon burials ,

marriages and baptisms .

This stipend varied as I have understood from $500 t o


,

, ,

$1 20 0 according to the size o f the parish ?


,

Yes sir ; and 1 0 per cent is deducted .

As to the charges who fix ed the amount o f those charges ?


.
,

The bishop determin ed the rates or charges and those rate s ,

had to be approved by the governor general here -


.

The tariff for marriage was one eighth o f which was -

for the church fund ; burial f or adults o ut o f which the

priest re ceived and the rest was paid o ut to others taking


part in the ceremony For christe n ing 1 2 5 cents leaving the
priest nothing because the candle cost six cents and the paper
. ,\

o n which he had to record the fact that the child had been bap

t iz e d cost five cents These were fixed rates but there were
. ,

other charges dependin g entirely on the a mount of work i h


volved and the extent of ceremony .

Who built the churches in which your priests officiate d ?


The government was charged to erect edifices for public
worship ; but the government being s o poor was negligent and . ,

it compelled us to build the churches out o f church funds .

There was a church erected in Manila that was built from the
proceeds of an hacienda and the churches o n the outside were
,

built by funds belonging to the church and by the aid o f day


laborers who gave their labor Some of these funds were taken .

from the auctorum fund ”


.

The church in the parish was built eit her by contributions


o r by the labor of the paris hioners of that parish Isn t t hat ’
.

true generally ?
The parishioners generally gave the funds to build the
chur ches because the government was poor and gave nothing
, .

Somet imes o f course where the parish was poor then the
, , ,

bishop d onated c ertain funds .

When you speak of the churches you include the conventos


also ?
Yes sir ; that is the house for the priest The people
, , .
,

realizing and appreciating the fact that the church was a bene
fit t o them and would improve the moral condition of the people ,

donate d their services free o f char ge For instance in a church


where I o fii c i at e d th e people went six miles to bring the lum
.
,

ber out of which to construct it .

What agricultural lands or haciendas does your order o wn


in the islands ?
We had one in Mindoro called San Jose hectares , .

This hacienda is about to be sold We also have on this h acie n .

da a herd of cattle The insurgents have taken a great many


.

just how many we do not know .

Is this only a grazing es tate or did you prod uce ric e o r ,

tobacco ?
42
T/ze Sen a t e D ocum en t ’
Rom a n zr m
'

an a

A sma ll part w as under rice cultivation At present time .

none is cultivated .

Are y ou to sell it to a corporation ?


A representative of the order has made an agreement t o
s el l to an American i n Madrid Mr Christy , . .

I s that Mr Christy t o form a corporation


.

He is the repre sentative o f a corporation


And in that new corporation I suppose the order is t o oh
.

tai n some shares of the stock ?


Th e sale ha s not yet been concluded of course but an , ,

absolute sale is co ntemplated .

H o w many and what h aciendas did the order own before


1 89 6
The hacienda in I umu a was sold to a c orporati on in 1 8 9 4 in ,

th e provi nce of Cav ite hectares It was sold t o a Spanish


, .

co rporation organized t o develop agriculture in t h e Phili ppines


Now in that co rporation I suppose th at the order owned a
.

majority of the sto ck ?


This Spanish corporation in turn sold this hac ienda t o an
English c o r por ation called British Manila Corporation Com
pany Limited
, .

W as not a Mr Mc G r e g o r the representative of this com


.

p any
Yes s ir ; Mr Mc G r e g or is the repre s enta tive of the En g
.

lis h company and he has come here t o see the estate and I b e
,

, ,

lieve some documents have been sent to the Washington G o v


cra ment and in turn forwarded here to General Otis ; but of
that I d o not know .

Now in tha t English corporation t h e order owns how much


,

sto ck
Yes s ir ; it owns sto ck
,
.

In other words this establishment of a corporation was


,

for the purpose of interesti ng other people in the property and


at the same ti me of ena bling the orde r t o obtain a reg ula r in
co me and be relieved from th e burden of collecting the rents
and ma nagi ng the property
The sale has been made absolute .

Ye s but of course if you o w n a majority of the stock you


,

obtain co ntr ol of the c orporation


The sale to the English corporation was absolute .

Yes but does n o t the order have some s to ck in that corpo


,

rati on
I can not say de finitely what proport ion of stock we own ,

but we own a certai n proportio n .

was tha t pro pert y improved


A large proportion o f it was unde r cultivation with i m
p r o v e me n t s many
,
ditches man y dams A large house
, tha t we .

had has bee n burned but at the present time there are sh acks
,

in whi ch American s are living .

Is that the house in which the priests were killed


Yes sir
, .

When did yo u acquire possession of this estat e ?


In 1 68 6 .

43

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zs m
'

an a
'

Had this proper t y been owned by the Je s uits before this ?


No ; the Je suits had noth ing to do with it whatever The .

property belonged to Dona Maria She had inherited the as .

tate herself .

A n d she gave it to the order ?


The property was mortgaged for $9 00 0 and that indebte d ,

ness was assumed an d besides the sum o f , was paid A


, .

gentleman by the name o f De Camos represented the corpor a


tion and paid the sum of the church assuming that .

Did you own any other property which you have sold in
th e same way ?
A piece of property —the name bein g San Ni c h o las was —

donated to the church at one time but under a decree of the ,

general gove rnment a public auction was held and the order ,

bought it in ful l for in the year 1 8 1 2 .

Have you spent money in improving that property ?


In dams and canals that have been built for carr ying wate r
we have spent more than a million dollars There are 45 dams . .

The hou was a magnificent one There were also three we re .

houses . e had also constructed underground ditches The .

gr eater portion in rice c ultivation ; a little sugar .

Had you any other hacienda except that of Imus which you
have sold ?
The hacienda of Monte Lupa possession acquired in the ,

year 1 69 5 for This is a small hacien d a probably 6 00


or 8 0 0 hectares ; I do not think it will reach 1 00 0 but a g reater
,

porti o n was not cultivated This was sold i n 1 8 9 7 . .

Was i t sold to the same Spanish company ?


No ; it was sold to a Spaniard in Manila .

Where did you get the estate of San Jose ?


The re are two parcels that constituted this hacienda one ,

was obtained by royal order 6 1 9 of May 1 5 1 80 7 and the other , , ,

portion consistin g of 1 66 4 he ctare s was acquired by purchase


, ,

o n the 1 5 t h of July 1 8 9 4 the sum paid being


, , The
hacienda de T al ajal a in the district of Mo rong in the lake r e
,
,
,

gion The property originally be longed to a French subject


.

,
an d was heavily en c umbered with debts and he not being able
, ,

to meet his obligations the chief creditor the chartered bank


, , ,

became possess ed of it on A ug 1 2 1 8 9 6 The order also being .


, .

a creditor purchased from the bank in 1 89 7 the hacienda for


,

the sum of This was sold March 1 6 1 90 0 to Don , ,

Juan Ma Poizat an agreement of sale having been made some


.
,

time before for but we lost in the transaction because ,

we had spent man y thousands in developing the property .

How many acres were there ?


The records do not sh ow the number of acres that it con
t ain e d but I believe it had somewhere i n the n eighborhood
, of
40 00 or 5 0 0 0 I can say there were three thousand under culti
.

vation .

Were there any others ?


No others .

Is it true that this order did not receive any o f the property
o f the Jesuits which was con fiscated W
, hen they were expelled
from the islands ?
44
T/ze Sen a t e Doc umen t Roma n zr m

an a

But I can say to you truthfully that the cases have been
very rare and this has been due to the cond itions existing
,

where a parish priest lives due t o the fact that they were iso
,

ated I can attribute it to that fact


. .

I want t o give you an opportunity to ans wer the charges


made generally as t o the fact whether a great many members of
the order have been immoral and wha t you know about it , .

Take for instance in Romblon in Mindoro in Paragua


, , , ,

these islands are widely separate d and without communication ,

without social intercourse whatever and naturally enough the ,

priests there were dissatisfied and disgusted and cases have ,

been where they have lived an immoral lif e These cases .


,

though have been very e xceptional and rare and the moment
'

, ,

that the superior became cognizant o f the fact, they were


brought here to Manila; and after an investigation if found ,
"

guilty were chastised and reprimanded The moment that


,
.

communication or intercourse in these islands became more f r e


quent that moment the cases became fewer and now they are ,

very rare indeed But that is n o t the basis o f the calumnies


.

that are hurled against these priests because he was appr eciat ,

ed more by the people who lived in the neighb orhood if he lived


in this manner No complaint has ever been made of a priest
.

w h o lived an immoral life Instead o f that the people have


.

sympathized with h im to a greater extent than before for the ,

reason that if the curate o r priest lived a dissolute life they in ,

tur n secured more liberty and they could d o as they liked


, , .

The K atipunans found no objection to his method of liv


i n g because they could then do what they l iked without inte r
,

ference from the priest and for this reason there is more s ym
,

pathy existing between the people and curat e if he leads an im


moral life than otherwise The basis o r bottom o f all this talk
.

an d lies and c alumny is the fact that in all these little town s a
head or chieftain o f the organization known as the Katipunan
Society is to be found and b e generally goes to the curate
,

an d makes effort to secure favors and when the curate denies ,

him the favor— generally to borrow money for they are nearly ,

always broke from that moment commences all t h e talk and


disturb ance Cases have been recorded wh ere this h ead or


.

chieftain has formulated a petition and had this petition sign ed ,

by a great many of the residents of the town and forwarded to


the vicar making charges therein of immoralit y o n the part of
.

the curate and when the v i car demanded the presence of the
,

curate in Manila the people changed their minds an d requeste d


,

him to stay That is the manner of the Indian — to day he is o f


. -

o n e mind to morrow of another


,
-
I make this point for the .

reason that I do not want you to pay too much importance to


W hat the Indian tells you . 6
Are you generall y fami liar with the character o f the nati ve
priests who have moved in and taken the places o f the friars ?
They are very bad men very b ad In most cases the least , .

number of wives one is satisfie d with is three and they are at ,

the head o f the revol ution in these towns where they are .

Would not that seem to refute the charge that the cause o f
the hostility against the friar is immorality— that is that im ,
46
T/ze Sen a t e D ocum en t ’
Roma n zr m
'

an a
'

morality does not seem to arouse the hostility o f the native


against his o wn native priests ?
That is not the basis of their hostility That is clearly c v .

ident when as I have indicated t o you before they appreciate


. ,

a man who 1 s immoral when he l ives 1 n these vile conditions


.

Was it po ssible under the Spanish government for a parish


priest to secure t h e deportation o f any man in h is parish by '

recommending to the governor general that he was a bad man -

and ought t o be remo ved ?


No sir ; but the curate being an instrument o f the gover
, ,

nor filed reports with the governor as to t he conduct an d life


,

o f those who live d in his parish The governor general being .


,

the head of the Spanish government in the island s sen t to the ,

curates f o r report s to various persons and the curates in turn ,

filed reports with him .

And the governor general in turn acted on these reports ?


-

The reports had to be made and were compulsory fr om the


fact that the governor general r e quested o f t h e vicar a report
-
,

and he in turn the bishop and the bishop the curate an d wh e th , ,


er Or not he wanted to make the report it was practically c o m


p uls o r y .

Do you think the priests of your order could go back to the


parishes where they were before and assume their s acerdot al '

functions without fear of personal violence a ssuming that the


American army will in a reaso n ably short t i me end the in s ur
, “
,

rection ?
Yes sir ; th at would be a very easy matter ind eed for the
, , ,

reas on that the people living in these to wns are anxious f or the
return o f t h e priests from the fact that the native priests who
, ,

are there now are very much despised and hate d by the people
, .

How do you know this ?


The bishop o f Jaro who is now here with us has letters
, ,

that are simply horrible indicating the actions o f these n ative


,
.


priests and showing the desir e o f t h e pe ople to h ave the Span
,
'

ish priests return t o them The native pries ts now o f course . .

, ,

having no head do as they like It is a good deal like an army


, .

without a head .

How many priests of your order were assaulted during the


revolution o f 1 8 9 6 and 1 89 8
_
.

T wenty fiv e of o ur pr iests were assassinated There are .

three causes that may explain this l arge number The first b e
ing that in Cavite the revolution began and the priests w
.

ho
were in the interior had no time to m
,

ake t heir escape Those .

who lived close t o the sea made their escape and the very priest ,

wh o had charg e of the parish in which Aguinald o lived was de


'

l i v e r e d o f the insurrectos by A guinaldo himself he furnishing ,

the means of escape a boat being placed at the disposal o f this


, .

priest by Aguinald o h imself ; and Bonifacio who was the insti ,

gator of these crimes was in t urn killed by Aguinaldo for hav


,

i ng killed these priests Fourteen killed in the province of


Cavi te in Bataan 2 Z ambales 7 Tarlac 1 ; Cebu 1


, , , , ,

How many were imprisoned ?


The great number o f d eaths among the p r iests can be ex
plained away al so by another rea s on The fact that the priests .

47
Tfie Sen a t e Documen t an d Rom a n is tn
Wh en th ey saw that there was no remedy joined the army and , ,

necessarily ran t h e same risks as the soldiers There were 9 1 .

prisoners .

That is joined the army of Spain ?


,

Yes sir ; the precise number has never been determ ined
,
.

Were any of the prisoners maltreated ?


Out of 40 that were imprisoned in Negros three of them
were maltreated and assaulted The rest of them were made .

to work in the prison ; those that had been in prison in Negros


were give n their liberty at the expiration of three months ; the
rest of the priests who h ave been in prison have received their
libe rty whenever the various towns in which they have been i m
'

p r is o ne d h ave b e en taken by the A me ricans .

Did you have any priests to join the insurgents ?


Than k God n ot a one , .

The Augustinians had three renegade priests Do you .

know whether they ar e the only ones in the islands ?


We have o n e who is in a town that is now in the hands of
the insurgents but he takes no sides whatever and performs

, ,

his regular duties .

Is the bishop of Jaro a member of your order ?


Yes sir ; the b i s h o p o f Vigan a D o ml n i c an ; the ar c h b i s h

op a Dominican ; bishop of Cebu a Fr anciscan ; bishop of the


Camarines an A ugu s tin ian ; the ad min i s ir at o r of the Camari nes
is an Augustinian ; an d the bishop is sick in Spain .

How many members of your order have left the islands


since the revolution began ?
In the year 1 89 6 we had 3 48 members 2 6 of which were lay ,

men S ince 1 89 8 1 73 have left for Spain 2 1 to A merica and s


.
,

to Macao .

Then there were 2 5 kil led ?


Yes sir ; there are 9 4 here at the present time and the
, ,

d ifie r e n c e between this number and 3 43 have died .

Did the insurgent g overnment pas s a law c o n fis cat in g your


property ?
I cannot answer that question positively but it was gener
ally s t ated I believe and published in the newspapers that laws
,

, , ,

e fie c t i n g not only our prope rty r i ht but the property right of


g
all the religious corporations, were passed . 1

Have not agen ts of the insurgent government been collect


ing rents from the tenants of your former e states ?
We have heard that and we know positively that with ref
,

erence to the propert y at Imus some of the heads o f the revo ,

l o tion have been charging not only what we charged but a ,

gre at de al more This I cannot say as positively true but we


.
,

have heard it
Q

Is it true that your order is desirous of leaving the islands ,


but that y o u have deferred your departure at the suggestion o f
A rchbishop Chap elle ?

We have been anxious to leave but the Pope at Rome has ,

given his order an d there is no recourse except to obey .

Yo u would be entirely will ing to do missionary work instea


d
of p arish work I presume ? ,

The f unctions are the same and it would make no d ifie r en ce ,

4s
Roma nzs m

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t
'

ana

t o us . Of course the missionaries have wor k of lesser impor


t an ce to per for m than those in charge of parishes but it would ,

make no difference t o us .

I suppose you have a representative on the board that s é


min i ste rs the funds under the Obr ias pias
We have what is called a voca somebody to represent
the order He in conjunction with the others d isposes of this
.
, ,

fund ; but t hey are limited to certain kind s of work— charitable


in sti tut ions and religious edific es and things of that kind .

What relation is t here between the Re c o le c t o s an d the Au


gus tin i an s ? Were the Re co l e c t o s or iginall y a branch of the
Augustinians ?
Yes sir ; they are called the bare foote d Augustinians
,
-
.

What is the meaning of the word Re c o le c t o s


It is taken from the verb to recover ”
to regain ”
to , ,

bring in , t o do miss ionary work


"
.

Then the Re c o ie c t o s sprung out o f the Augustinians ?


The R e c o le c t o s are a branch o f the Augustinians and they .

sprung from them from the f act an d for the reason that the
Augustinians led a gay life I am not saying that they were

b ad men but their spirit s were very high and for that reason
,
-
,

th e Re c o l e c t os sprung from them— not because they were bad


men and we good men but becau se their spirits were high and
,

fiery . Our original ancestors or fathers were Au g ustinians .

We follow the same rules that they follow but they have their ,

own head and we have our o wn but they i n turn are subj ect to
,

the orders of the Pope at Ro me .

In the papers you have there (pointing) have you the trac
ing of your titles ? If you have no o bject ion I would be glad ,

t o keep that as a memorandum It has been freely charged


.
,

apparently by men who have very little knowledge o n the sub


je c t that you have no title t o the land which you h ave hereto
,

fore enjoyed the usufruct of I want t o report o n that issue


. ,

and it will assist me to have the data contained in that paper .

With pleasure We appreciate your kindness i n this respect


. ,

i ndicating to us your desire to do us justi ce .

Expressions of than ks .

Adjourned
U US 4 1 9 0 0 A G T , .

OAPUGHINO P DRE -
A ALPHO NSO MARI A DE
MORERTIN .

How old is your order ?


Since the fifteenth century Properly s peaking the ord er.

dates from the thir te e nth century We are the same as the .

F ranciscans The 29 th of N ovember 1 2 0 9 the for mation of


. , ,

the body was approved .

Are you organiz ed for missionary work l ike the other o r


ders ?
Yes sir , .

Has the order lay members as well as priests ?


Yes sir They ar e the sa me as t h e fathers with the single
,
.

exception that they are not ordained In every other particular .

they ar e the same living the sa me and wearing the same habi t
,
.

49

Tue Sen a t e Documen t Rom a n zym
'

ana

How many lay members and p riests were there in the islands
before the revolution of 1 8 9 6 ?
Very few because our field of labor was not in the Philip
.
'
pines but in the Carolines ; but we had a house here for t h e
,
.

purpose of assisting in any missionary labors .

Can you give me a general idea of th e number ?


Ten up to 1 8 9 6
,
.

How many ar e there now ?


Six .

Did they do any parish work ?


No ; we only arrived here in 1 88 6 .

There has been no hostile feel ing again st your ord er at all ,

has there ?
It has not r e ached my ears .

You own no pr opert y I presume except the hous e in which


, ,

you live ?
The house where we live only I have a quasi property .

t itle to a small piece of land just beyon d Malate which was .

given t o me by word of mouth by some friends but n o legal ,

documents were drawn up an d conse quently it has not be e n ,

recorded and the property still remains in the hands of the d o n “

ors ; but when I desire it the title will be conveyed to me It .

is only a little garden with a very small house and at the out .

break o f the trouble With the F ilipinos they destroyed the little
house .

I have not he ard any charges of any immor ality brought


against any member of your order and therefore I will not ,

not touch on that subject .

Yes sir ; many thanks


I might ask you if you can tell me the reason why there is
.
.

a difference of feeling against your order as against the larger


orders which have been here for a long time
There may be man y r e as o n s but I will endeavor to reply
.

'

as to my opinion The first reason would be that the few take


.

up a very little s pace whereas the many would cover a great


deal more , But I do not believe there really exist s the hatred
,

and hostility that the Filipino would make believe exists again st
the relig ious orders as a whole .

D o n t you think that such as does exis t arises largely from



,

the politi cal power which the old orders exercised by reason of
the fact that their members were parish priests and re presented
throughout the country very largely the government of Spain
, ,

in a civil way ?
I do not b e lie v e s o because the political functions exercised
,

b y them we re v ery slight .

But is n o t it a fact that in most of t h e towns of the islands


where the y officiated there was no representative of th e govern
ment of Spain except the parish priests ?
That might very well have been the case but still there ,

was a civil authority there even though he might have been only
a native The two authorities civil and ecclesiastical were
.
, ,
never combined .

Was i t not a fact that the captain general relied greatly o n -

the pad res and kept putting o n ad d itional duties of various


,

kind s o f a Ci vi l character upon the pad res ?


50
IV Sena t e
'

Roma n zs m
'

D ocumen t
'

ze an a

On the contrary he was always reducing them The padres


, .

took part in what might be termed mixed matters such as ,

school matters He was inspector of schools and he was one


.
,

o f the members of the board of e lection He was an inspector .

to preserve order more than any thing else It must be remem .

bered also that he performed these duties because the govern


, ,

ment ordered h im t o and not becau se he interfered seeking t h e


.
, ,

authority .

It might be termed un o fil c i al action ; for instance about ‘


,

1 89 7 after the other revolution broke out I received a private


, ,
'

and secret letter as superintendent o f the order from the gov '

cruor general which letter was also sent to all parish priests
-
,

throughout the archipel ago in which it is said that whenever ,

the parish priests believed that it woul d be pro pe r t o re move ‘

some local officer of the gove rnment they should apprise the
governor general of the fact with the r ea sons therefor but on
-
,

the other hand the same kind of a letter was sent to the gov
e r n o r of t h e d ifier e n t pueblos telling him if there was any reason

for having the parish priests removed they should also inform
him of the fact .

Expression o f thanks .

Ad j ourned .

U U 4 1 900 A G ST , .

BE NE DI CT I N OS —
P A DR E J U AN S A B A T E R
How lon g has y c ur order b e e n here
From 1 8 9 5 .

How many were there in t h e order in these islands


Eight padres and six lay brothers A fterwards up to 1 7 .

priests came and 1 1 lay members .

Are they here now


Now 8 pr iests and 6 lay brothers .

Do you o wn an y property here


Only t h e house in which we live and the chapel .

I have always had more or less o f an intere st in the Bene


,

die tine order because when I fir s t wen t on the bench in a S t ate


court at Ci n cinnati I had to consider the question of the owner
,

ship o f the trade m ark for the Benedictine liqueur The person
'

that was forging the trade mark claimed that the person who -

asserte d the right to it had no right to it in that he said that


the liqueur was mad e f r o m a receipt ma d e by the Benedictine
l

order But they proved that the liq ueur was made not by the
.

Benedictine priests now b ut according to a receipt which the ,

Benedictine order had followed in mak ing their liqueurs some


eighty years before
At the time of the French Revolution when the Bene ,

d i c t in o s had t o leave their place they sold their receipt and , ,

that is the o n e now being followed For that reason yo u still .

fin d on the trade mark the arms of t h e abbey which of course


-
,

could n o t be coun t erfeited .

I suppor t ed that
Very often they endeavor to counterfeit it I know that
.

the French manufacture rs o f that liqueur sen d agents all around


Europe to fin d out if it is being counterfeited .

51

Roma n zs m
'

T/ze S en a t e Documen t an a

I wis h your order was g tting some of the money being e

made out of it .

The fact is o ur order does not care for it at all We have


,
.

another rece ipt which we d o not care to e x ploit In Spain we


,
.

have been told that the other receipt would be a gold mine but ,

we only manufacture a l ittle for our own use and do not put it ,

on the market It is as goo d as the best g r ade of Benedictine ;


.

but if we manufactured it and put it on the market the people


will s ay we are not following religious vocations but are mer ,

chants .

But you might have a royalty on the tr ad e mark without


sellin g the liq ueur We have a saying i n America that would
.

apply to this e s pe cially where the fathers would us e the money


,

to the be s t purposes that Money does not sme
-
ll ,
.

For ins t ance take the place of the monks that manufacture
,

the Gran d Chartreuse They live very modestly and do not .

need an y mon ey an d they pay out of the proce eds of that


,

liqueur 0 0 0 francs a year to the Holy Father and all the ,

roads and o ther i mprovements around the place where they live
are paid for b y them and all t h e money is given to godly work
,

and public improvements A n d also what the French g o vern .

men t re ce ives by w ay of taxation That is why the y have not .

bee n fired out of the country Once the prefect of that distr ict .

went to Chartreuse and the fathers had heard that they were
,

going to be expelled and they found the prior of th e monastery


,

studying very i n ten tly the map of England and the prefect ,

asked What are you doin g ?


, He said We are st udying a ,

place to move to ; and he s aid No you must not g o ” . , .

He d id not want to kill the goose that lay the golden egg
Ex pression of thanks .

Adjourned .

AU G U S r 4 , 1 90 0 .

ST . V I NCE N T E O F PA U L I S T .

I think y have very members in the islands


ou

Very f e w 3 8 in the entire archipelag o


, .

How old is y o ur order


From 1 62 5
How lo n g h ave you been in t h e Phili ppi nes
Since 1 8 62 .

Your fun ct ion s are of a mis s i o n ar y n at ur e


'

Mis s i o n ary a n d semin ary wor k .

Have y o u a s chool here


We have o n e theol o gical seminary elsewhere an d other ,

semi n ari es .

Where ar e they located


In N uev a Caceres Ce bu an d Jaro , , .

The se are seminaries of secon d ar y education


Ye s sir. .

The y take young boys and carry the m clear thro ug h as t a

g radu ate
Ye s sir ; in the thir d I me ntioned that is the cours e
, .

H ave any o f the members of your order acte d a


p ri ests
d Roma n zs m
'

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t an

For working purposes six mon t hs would be sufficient , b ut


n ot for p reaching .

B ut i n o ne year you could preach ?


Ye s , s 1r
I have never heard it said
.

that any o f your members were


e ver c harged w i t h immorality in the island s Is that true ? .

Never .

How i s your order support ed ?


By exercise of the ministry by the seminari es themselves .

The st ud ents pay tuition .

In wh at par t s of the islands are you located now ?


Nue va Cacer e s Cebu J aro and Manila , , ,
.

A r e there as many of the order in the islands now as there


were i n 1 8 9 6 ?
Ele ven have left for Spain Ten left last year and 1 this .

yea r an d now we h ave 3 8 We had 49


,
. .

Ex pression o f thanks .

A d j ourned .

JESllITS MI(1 UEL S ADERRA MATA, .



so m
PERIO R or THE enu s WHO IS ILL
'
m .

Q When d id your order come to the Philippines ?


.

A They came here at t wo d ifie r e n t periods ; 1 5 8 1 first and


.
,

r e mained to 1 7 6 7 and in 1 859 we returned again


, .

.Q H o w man y priests did you have in the islands in 1 8 9 6


b efore the revolutio n began ? [ Presents the president with a .

b ook co n taining t his information 1 6 7 i n cluding the lay broth ,

e r s ; in M an il a 2 4 pr i ests 1 3 scholastics and 2 5 laymen and in , , ,

Mindanao 6 2 priests a n d 43 laymen T h c s e scholastics are not .

students themse l ves but ar e teacher s ] ,

Q How many were lay members ?


.

A S ixty eigh t
.
-
.

Q What are t h e d uties of the lay broth e rs ?


.

A A mong the Je suits a priest is always a lay brother who


.

manages the household .

Q o r course it i s included in that book but I would like


.
,

to know generally in what towns and villages the me mbers of


your order acted as parish priests ?
A Only i n Mindanao and the adjacent islands but they are
. .
,

not prope r ly speaking p arish priests ; they are missionaries


, , .

Q Was there imposed upon your order whe n they came


.

back to the isl ands a condi t ion that they sh ould act only as mis
s io n a r ie s and should own no property ?

A T h at condition was imp osed upon themselves by them


.

selves .

Q Was there a condition imposed by the government as to


.

the ownership of property ?


A They say that there is a condition that we should not
.

clai m anything in the way of proper ty .

Q Did the priests of y our order that acted as missionaries


.

r eceive a stipend from the gover n ment ?


A Yes sir
.
, .

54
Tue Sen a t e Documen t ’
Roma n zs m

ana

Q Did th at vary fr o m $5 0 0 t o
.

A I b e lieve from $50 0 to $800 w h i ch was the highest


.
,
.

Q Who built the mis s ionary churche s in which the mem


.

bers b f your order o fii ci at e d ?


A The missionaries themselves generally
. .

Q W h o built the missionary churches in which the mem


'
.

bers o f your or der officiated ?


A The missionaries themselves generally
. .

Q You mean o ut of funds that they collected m the church?


A It was done both by church funds and by the work
.

which is p e rformed by those deputized by the government to


do it in i t s position as vice patron We also ourselves per
-
.

formed wd r k because we placed brothe rs who acted as archi


t e c t s and as master carpenters and mast e r masons and from ,

funds o f th e missionaries themselv e s and alms .

Q I s not it a fact that t h e Je s u it order re quires a longer


.

and more thorough education th an an y of the othe r orders o f


the ch urch ?
A As t o its being better I do not know but as to more
.
,

time being employed in the education yes , .

Q I t is at least nine years ?


.

A It is sixteen years
. .

Q Before they o fii ciat e as priests ?


.

= A Before ordination si xte en y ears


. .

Q Does your order own an y agricultur al property in th e


.

is lands ?
A Her e is an inven tory of the [ handing ] None of them
. .

are w hat y o u would call agricultural lands They are mostly in .

cities and necessary adjuncts to buildings .

Q Do y o u o wn any property in Benguet ?


.

A Yes sir
.
, .

Q I s that down in this list ?


.

A No ; as we have not g o t it it is n ot down there The


. , .

Ben guet property would be like the sanatorium in We


o wn n o property which produce s an y thing All our property is .

f o r t h e purp oses o f the order and not for the collection of i s


come We had a place in Min d anao so that when students left
.

the coll ege they were furni s hed w ith a small piece o f land .

Q I s it not true that practically no charges o f immorality


.

have be e n brought against the members o f your order in these


elan d s ?
A It is t rue that none have been made I re c all that the
.
.

secre t ary t o Augustine t he governor general said to me t hat


,
-

again s t me there was no anon ymous letter .

Q H ave you any reason to doubt that if the members o f


.

your ord e r returned to their p arishes they would be received


without violence by the people to whom they should be assigned ?
A We have eleven i n Mindanao now and they are working ,

unmolest e d an d where they have n o Jesuit priests we are r e


.

ce iv i n g letters continuously asking t o have them sent there We .

have lett ers from General Bat es and General Kobbe stating t h at
the people there have been asking for them The governors of .

the tow ns there have sent letters statin g that they wanted them
t o be there .

55
Roma n zsm
'

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t an a

Q . H o w many of y our order remain in the islands now ?


A Ninety three
.
-
.

Q Where have the others gone ?


.

A They re turn e d into Spain but from there they have


. ,

been ordered to diffe rent place s .

Q Why did they go away ?


.

A Because there was nothin g for them to do here Th e


. .

head of this mis sion is in Spain and when there is nothing to ,

do here the y ar e recalled by the head of the mission in Spain .

Q You mean nothing t o d o on account o f the state of war ?


.

A Ye s s ir ; because cond itions were so upset 5 3 of


.
, .

the remainin g 9 3 are in the municipal at h e n mum 4 o f them are ,

provisionally ad ministerin g parishes in the province o f Cavite ,

1 0 in the nor mal s c hool an d ob s ervatory 2 in the Ermita parish , ,

2 ab s ent in the Unite d States and the remaining 1 1 ar e i n the ,

missions of Mindanao The paris h here i n Ermita was imposed


.

on us by t h e arc hbishop We did not have this par ish before


. .

Q I want to ask you one question more and then I am


.
,

done What makes the d ifier e n c e in the feelin g of the people


.
,

or the re puted fe e lin g of t h e people between your order and ,

the four larger orders here ?


A I h ave given t hat before in this way : In the firs t place
.
,

we have no haciendas ; and another reason is t hat nothing h a s


been said ag ainst o ur habits up to the present time ; and fur
ther the fact of our te aching
, .

Q I s n o t another reason that they did not min gle in pol


.

i ti c s and were not used by the governor general for political


purposes ?
A I will an swe r that question by stating what an Indian
.

sai d to me yeste rday You pe ople always went into these ques
tions w he n it was for the bene fit of the people at large and not
for the individua
[ The government evidently omits a page here for the ex ,

amination goes from the Jesuits to the Pauli sts ] .

Father Doyle — That is a hard question for I myself can ,

not at the time understan d this popular feeling o f the people .

Q Whe re a popular feelin g is made up of a good many


.

elements and judgin g from what the priests say the S panish
,
,

governme nt used those peo ple as the representatives of their


power and when they w anted anyth in g done they left it to the
, -

priests and conse quently when the feeling against Spain grew
,

bitte r the feeling ag ain st the friars grew bitter Of course


, .

that is only one element and t hen how far the fe eling actually
,

exists is another que sti on .

Father Doyle In man y towns there were no garrisons and


.

no whi t e man but the p r iest The governme nt was sometimes .

almost obliged to do that The d iffe rence may be that we are .

not parish workers but missio n aries O ur principal work was .

missionary work .

Q I think if they h ad had two friars to every parish as you


had things might have been different ?
,

A As to the political functions e xercised by our order the


.

Spanish government it i s true did c o n f c r some trusts and de


, ,

mand some functions of a civil ord er from the parish priests


56
Tb e S ex /a t e D ecumem ‘
an d Rama mir m
an d missionaries such as the inspection o f s c hools an d par tici
,

pe tion in certain provincial o r local boards o f charity proceeds ,

o f cor poration etc We come wi t hin this latter p a r t more than


, .

the oth er and in the new towns and in n e w Christian se t tle


,

ments repre sented the mace of au t hority fro m the government


,

o f Spain to those selected by the governme n t o f Spai n to have

it. That wa s all the missionaries ever had to d o .

Expression o f than ks .

A dj ourned .

A R C H BI S H O P O F MAN I LA .

Your grace how long have you b e en in t h e Philippines ?


,

T wenty s ix years with an inte rval of eighteen month s


-

when I made a trip to Europe .

Have you ever had a parish in the isl an ds ?


No ; formerly I was professor i n Manila .

H o w long have you been archbishop ?


Since 1 889 .

Were you a bishop before that time ?


No .

As I understand it the archbishop is ( 1 ) the bishop of the


,

see o f Manila and (2 ) the metropolitan of the other bish oprics


.

in the archipelago ?
He has a certain intervention rather l i mited in fact in all , ,

o f the other bishopr ics .

I presume that the see o f Manila is the largest i n the archi


pelago in point of population and probably also in point of the ,

number o f parishes ?
Yes in both
,
.

Does it include more than the province of Manila ?


M any other provinces : Bulacan Pampanga part of Tarlac , , ,

all o f Zambales Cavite Laguna Batangas and Bataan and the


, , , ,

island o f Mindoro . The other part o f the province of Tarl ac


was a part of the see o f Nueva Segovia .

It is the custom I think and always has been for the


, , ,

ch urch to give to the bishoprics and the archbishoprics the


name of the largest city ?
They ar e named af te r the civil capital .

Do you speak Tagalog ?


Very little The Tagalog language cannot be known with
.

any degree o f perfection unless you live in the provinces Not .

going out o f Manila o n e does not learn it readily


, .

It has n o literature ?
A very imperfect literature ; some romanc es — idyls that
they sing in the towns .

Have you observed the character of the Tagalogs and the


other races in t h e islan ds ?
Naturally ; because one livin g in the Phi lippines would n o
tice the d iii e r e n c e s which exist between the different races .

I have asked this because I fin d that thr ough the priests ,

and the bishops o f the church especially I can get more accu ,

rate information as to the character of the inhabitants than


th rough almost anyone else .

57
Tne Sen a t e Documen t an d Roma n ir nz
Naturally ; as they come in closer contact with the people
t h e y will appreciate the differences They ar e what mi ght be .

termed more essentiall y differen ce s in trait and charact e r than



zoological ” d ifler e n c e s The sa me d iffe rence s that exist b e
.

tween t h e whit e and the blac k races are not observe d among
these people .

They are a br ight race in learning— at leas t as children ?


Yes sir ; they lend themselves to education
,
.

They learn languages with very litt le d imc uit y


They never learn a language profoundly or philosophically ;
but for social purposes and co n versation the y are very apt
very quick t o learn To show my meaning in this particular
.

th at they ar e quick to learn mere con versat io na l matter and no


deeper subject— there is a case of a young native who was
brought up in o n e of the scho ols here , and who was absolutely
protecte d and surrounded by all safeguards to preven t h i m from
speaking his own language This child needed thr ee years to .

become cogniz ant of what was meant b y any written signs


which nee ded th ought t o appre ciate what t h e eye was read ing ;
and that te rm of three years may b e put down as th e average
t ime necessary for a native to grasp kn owingly a foreign lan

guage ; but the power to speak it superfici all y they can acquire
very rapidly It is true nevertheless that were t hey ed ucated
.
, ,

outside their own country where their surround in gs would be ,

entirely different from those at home they would le arn more ,

rapidly for despite all the efforts t o keep them fro m co ntact
,

With thos e who speak their own lang uage whenever they get ,

together they will always speak in their own tongue .

I suppose wh en they t alk th ey mix in a good deal of Sp anish ?


Yes sir
, .

So that the Tagalog is full of Spanish expressions ?


Yes sir ; very naturally for all these languages here are
,

very poor especiall y in terms expr essing abstract ideas— whi c h


,

t hey could not e x press at all in their own language except by

p araph rasing so that they were forced t o take t o Spanish —such


,
” ”
as G o d , religion the word republican ” that would nee d
, ,

a great many words t o express it in their own language Re v .


o lut i o n
, insurrecto ” also are Spanish They stick to the
, .

latter wor d with a gr eat deal o f force .

A r e they rather a light hearte d race easil y affected by -

pleasure dancing music and such things ?


, , ,

They are They d i iier greatly from the Euro pean race in
.

that innate feelin g which moves Europeans They ar e more .

impelled by extraneous in fluences than by innate influence or


impulse .

They are easily moved then ? ,

I have never seen of course all tri bes but I have se en


, , ,

nearly all of the Malayan race and I do not know of any race
existing which i s more respons ive t o its s urroundings There
,

be ing no proper ind ividuality if they live in good surroundin gs ,

they will be g ood and if they live in bad surroundings they


,

win be bad .

They have very li ttle te n ac i t y or moral stamina ?


T here is an absolute want of char acter They cannot grasp .

68
'


Tae Sen a t e D ocum en t Roma n zr m
'

an a

n id e a and by t heir o wn mental e fio r t determine whether i t i s

n r o p e r o r improper .

They have not the logical faculty developed at all ?


They have just sufficient of the logical faculty to be r a
ti o n al beings
'
.

I have observed in a number of them who have been edu


os ted a desire to rush into abs tract principles as if that was

, ,

the atmos phere they loved without much capacity to reason ,

o n the subject ?

The y have not sufficient mental capacity to dige s t any ah


s t ract question .

But they like t o l ive in that atmosphere ?


The idealists A noticeable feature o f the native pe ople
.
,

and also of the mixed races is that they lac k the capacity to ap ,

ply knowledge o r scientific research or thought to objec t s which


sur round them In other words prudence and discretion are
. ,

ab s olutely unknown to them This is in all the r aces and in all .

the paths o f life F or instance a lawyer comes from his law


.
,

school with brilliant attainments profound ac quisition of knowl ,

ed ge but when he is ab out to take a case he cannot apply those


.

principles t o the facts in the case .

They lack practicabilit y ?


Yes sir , .

And their life is a series of fie e t in g impressions with ac


'

tion s founded o n them ?



Exactly Another noticeable feature of the race is that
.

very soon after they leave an educated atmosphere they lose all ,

they have learned I take the liberty o f making o n e suggestion


.

wh ich I think should be borne in m i nd by all government o fii


c i al s — their pronene s s to suggestions from others That per . ,

haps is their most remarkable an d all absorbing character If


,
-
.

a man appears whom they consid er a great man among th e


people— some person wh o occupies a to pmost position they —

idol i ze him ; think him something divine They never sto p to .

reason but follow him blindly as i f he was of divine orig in


, , .

Are they variable in the sense that a single misstep will


change it all ?
It is the only way for the idol to suffer a fall What the .

Spaniards did in America and which was considered a most ,

barb arous thing was to burn all the idols of the Indians so
, ,

that th ey coul d no longer follow them and that is what will ,

have to be done here— burn their idols .

Metaphorical ly speaking ?
Oh naturally,
.

They are an artistic race are they not ? ,

They could hardly be called an ar tistic race except in a very


l imite d deg ree They cannot devise anything themselves but
. ,

i n imitation they are very good .

They enj oy music very much do they not ? ,

They have a marvelous faculty for r etaining music and ,

they are very responsive to music but originality i h the crea , .


.

tion of music they have none For i nstance an Indian will .

hear a melody o n the luneta and he will retain 1 t to such an ex .

te nt that he will write it out afterwards— hours afte rwards .

59

Roma n zr m
'

Tfie Sen a t e Documen t an a

They have s ufii c i e n t knowled ge o f music to read i t ?


Many of them They have a prodig ious memory but a ma
. ,
p

J or it y play by ear This prodigiou s. memory is not i ceable in


other things as well as music .

They need it in their language don t they ? ,


I have h ad students— sacerdotal students who could t ake a ,

book and learn it from begi nnin g t o end and repeat it like a ,
.

parrot and not know one word o f what it meant In tha t they
,
.

are marvelous .

Many who make up these orchestras here— they must read


music as well as play by ear ?
There are many conducto rs o f orchestr as that have bee n in
the Spanish re gimental bands and a great many of the men ,

t hemselves can read music but there is a large number who ,

play by ear .

Do they have a fondness for a particular kind o f music or ,

doe s all music please them ?


They love all music but they are par t l c ul ar ly entranced by
,

this lig ht mu s ic .

Do you think their t aste for classical music c ould be i m


pr oved by hearing it ?
Yes sir They will never int e rpret it with the soul and
, .

fee lin g of a person of the white race but they will inte r pret it ,

mechanically all of it without leaving anything out


, , .

I have observed that the painters these day laborers really , ,

have cons iderable faculty with the brush o n the walls .

The pinnacle the master has reached they have re ac hed , ,

but al ways imitative They neve r can go beyond thei r teacher


. .

D o they make go o d copies from the old mast ers ?


I have never seen what might be called a copy o f superior
'

wor th b ut I have s ee n some that might be termed fair I have


, .

some rather good c r ies in my house .

I have understo od that they have considerable faculty in


mech anica l engineering in running engines and such things , .

They have very skillful hands for any work of th at kind .

Are the y pretty good surveyors and railroad engineers— o f


that sort which requires much or ig inality ?
Enteri ng upon avocat ions which require much mat h emat i
cal kno wledge they are not so good The science of mat he
. .

mat ic s is one they cannot grasp .

That requires t o o much of the logical faculty ?


Yes sir That is beyond them In merely elementary
, .
.

arithmetic they are fairly good but when you g e t t o hi gher ,

mathematics where the reasoning faculties are brought into


,

play they cannot c e pe with them


, .

I think their t aste for mu s ic must have been developed by


the Spanish language What your grace is now saying t o me .

sounds like melody .

No ; that is inn ate with them This d evelopme n t of their .

i nnate musical sen s e is largely attributable to the religious e z er


cises A t the b e ginn mg when the missionaries first came her e
.
,

they conducte d their s e r vice s wit h a gre at deal of singing to


attract the natives Most o f the musicians who have shown
.

any aptitude in their art have b een graduates of the Cathedral ,

60

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zr m
'

an a

as between the mselves and to ward animals too they seem , ,

t o b e wi t hout compassion .

The r e i s abs o lutely no sincer ity i n their friendship and ,

th ey hav e no pity .

During the revolution I have observed that they have rarely


violate d the laws of war toward the Americans b u t in terror ,

izing their own people they have been guil y of the most o ut .

rageous brutality ?
Ye s even to the ex te nt of burying them alive cutting o fi

,
,

their arm s their le gs an d cutting out t heir tongues


, ,
.

H o w many parishes are there i n y our diocese ?


There are 2 1 9 prie sts There are three kinds of parishes .

parishe s mission parishes an d active missions ; but some of


, ,

them are very large parishes by reason of the want o f priests


.

Can you tell me generally how these parishes are officiated


. ,

b y what orders and by what classes o f priests I mean b e


'
-
, ,

fore 1 8 9 6 ?
Augustinians 75 ; R e c o le t o s 5 9 ; Franciscans 47 Domi
,
. ,

n i can s 1 4 and secular clergyme n 24


, , ,
.

Were the secula r clergy natives ?


All Outside of the regular orders the rest of clergy were
.

all natives ? Here [handing statement to president ] is a state


me n t which shows the n umber of parish pries t s and mission
arie s in the archip e lag o another giving the number of priests ,

in each di ocese and lastly the number of souls in each diocese


, ,

which I have brought for you .

Was it not a fact ,by reason o f the absence of other Span


i ar d s in most of the parishes that the Spanish governme n t ,

came to re ly on the Spa n ish priest as the strongest support of


go vernment throughout the i slands ?
Ye s ; as the only eleme nt i n whi c h t h e government could _

place any confidence and who had an y i n telligence .

A n d as a cons e que nce the g o vernment was i n the habit of


, ,

imposi n g civi l funct ions either by law or by custom upon most , ,

of the p arish priests ?


We have interrogated a number of gentlemen who preced e d
your grace and I suppose you concur in their evidence that they
,

we re i n spector s of sch ools that t hey took the census and that , ,

they were in a sense police a g e nts upon whom the government


, , ,

called for information c on ce rning the character of the people


in their p ar i she s ?
That is all very true except that these parish priests gave ,

no r e ports as to the private life of the individual because that ,

would be contrary to the ten ets of the church .

I want to ask one que stion if it is not going beyond the ,

bound s — that is if thes e pe ople were si n cer e i n their con


,

fessions ?
I thin k so They were affe cted by their reli gious e mot ions
. .

Those who draw near t o the confessional are all s i n c e r e but al ‘

do not draw near .

I t is a great thi ng to get some things into the character


o f the people that are g enuine and true for upon that you c an ,

gradually build up t o wh at is worth something .

That is very true .

62
Tae Sen a t e D ocum en t ’
Roma n zr m
'

.
an a

The parish priests also were really the advise r s of e ver y


bo dy i n the village official and otherwise ? ,

That is true .

And being loyal t o Spain and representing the governme nt


o f Spai n in so many capacities was it not natural that those ,

Wh o began th e insurr ection against Spain shoul d have a h oe


tili ty to ward these representatives ?
It is very n atural All the more so since this feeling o f
.

mmit y was not so much that of the great mass of the people as
t h ose who constitute d this revolting element a ainst t h e s o ver
g
ei gh ty of Sp ai n .

I want to ask your grace about the relative proport ion


among the people o f th is act i ve revolting element to which
r eference h as been made .

You would have t o run over the entire archipelag o in your


mind to arrive at that figure In the beginnin g i t was only the .

Tagalogs ; now it has spread and y e t it is only a minute pro ,

portion because this element o f disturbance is only composed


,

of those p e ople wh o call themse lves educat ed and even from ,

tho se people you have to subtract a ce rtain pre portion .

That is what I want to fin d out Of course your grace can .

not say exactly but I would l ike to get your idea o f the pro
, 0

portion o f the s o call ed educated Tagalogs to the mass


-

J ud ging from the data collected by ecclesiastics which i s


.

the on ly data on which any reliance can b e placed up to t h e


present time the Filipino population leaving out of course
, ,

those wh o are in a semi savage state in the for est is about 7-

0 0 0 0 00
. The s o called educated ele ment does not amount to

-

That excludes o f course those who kn ow only how to


, . ,

read an d w r it e and includes only those who have had a college


,

education— those who have taken a seco n dary course and who
are in the professions The masses who are in the i n s ur r e c
.

t io n a r y ranks you would not have to pay any attention to ; they


are either led by fear or by ignorance .

I want t o tell you a conversation I had with a young e d u


c a t e d F ilipino who was going to the United State s t o continue
,

h is studies. I said to him t hat I was glad he was going be , .

cause I w an ted him to go to a country where he should under


s tand what real individual l iberty was ; that there he would

fin d o ut that it was possible for a minor ity to live under the


rule o f the m ajority ; that his idea o r the idea of the Filipino as '

to liberty was the right of the m aj ority to r ule and imprison or


cut the throats of the minority and he responded to me with , ,

co nsiderable i mpa t ienc e that that was the feeling poss ibly , , ,

among the masses but that among the governin g and educated
,

el ement there was a ve r y d ifferent feeling , an d that between t he


e d ucated Filipino and the masses there was an immensity of
s p a ce that we could not appreciate .

W hat can be said is that the masses of the people still re


tain a little bit o f common sen s e ; whereas those who boast of ,

be in g the high and mighty have lost it en tirely It is a pity . .

but i t i s true T h ey are nothing but overgrown children wh o


. ,

by mimickin g civilization be lieve that they have reached the


height o f civiliz ation .

63

Tne Sen a t e Documen t ana Roma n zlcm
Are not the mass of the people as are mo s t r ural comm un i ,

ties simple a n d have t hat kind o f honesty which co mes wit h


, ,

simplicit y
Within the conditions of their race they have that native
h ones t y and simplicity In ti mes gone by prior to t h e revo
. ,

l a tion of 1 8 9 6 t h e mas s o f the people had a simplicity that was


,

r e ally enchanting O ne could travel around without a guard


.

into the provi n ces and g o through an immense lot o f people ,

and they would always receive him with open arms They were .

very hospitabl e an d the first house you come to you could take
a n d use as your o w n .

Th e y are generally a very hospitable race are they not ? ,

Yes s ir
, .

They get that from the Spaniards ?


By n o m e an s O f cou r se the Christian civilization the
.

,

Spani ards have broug h t them has developed this but i n all the ,

Malay an races you will fin d a certain i nnate ki n dli n ess and


ho spitality .

They cer t ainly have d erived from the Spaniard s the courtesy
o f m ann e rs and politenes s ?
Of co urse they may have learned some of that
,
.

Have t hey not more skill in instrumental music than in


vocal music ? Their voices are hardly trained ?
A great d e al more for I have never k n own in adults of
,

single case where a voice might be called a superior voice ; but


amon g t h e youn g child r e n when the ir voices are what might be ,

called sopr ano the re h aVe been some that would attract at
,

tention anywhere .

Then they m ake fin e choir boys ?


Ye s sir
, Th e y have no c h es ts They are a very pusil
. .

l an i o us race There hav e b e e n c ases where a man died of


.

fright. It could not be other wise for look at what they have ,

to live o n a li ttle bit of rice and a small piece of fis h — and the


spirit has to be i n rela t ion with the physical organism .

The y are very te mperate are they not ? ,

Yt S , S ir .

They do not eat m uch and d o not drink much .

On some fe ast d ays th ey may fill themselves without meas


ur e but that is about once a year
, They eat for a whole month
-
. .

The strain of a F ili pino lu n ch I have undergone myself ,

with the great numb e r of courses they have .

Whenever they e at at so mebody s else expense they always ’

eat well an d whe n they give a ban q uet or anything o f that kind
,

it is to an e xaggerated d e gree but after the banquet is over all ,

they eat i n the house is a little bit of fis h and a little bit of rice .

This fact make s the m very subject to being carried o ff by


e pidemic s ?

Yes ; and their method of living in n on h y g ien i c surround .

They are cleanly in their person are they not ? ,

Other wise the s mell o f their bod ies would be unendurable '

Those who are extremely careless about their person al condition


are t h e Chinese All of this goes to prove that the climatic con
.

d i t i on s o f Manila are rem arka b ly good because the hygienic


,

64
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t an a

Roma n zr m

co n di tio n s ha ve b e e n a n y t hin g b ut g o o d an d w o uld r at her in v it e


e p id e m i cs a n d y e t the y ha v e e s ca e d t h e m
,
p .

I a g r e e w it h y o u i n th at 1 t hi n k it is o n e o f t h e mo s t r e

m ar ka ble a r c hip e la g o s in t h e w o r ld .

Ye s s ir : y o u ha v e a d iv e r s ity o f c li m a t e he r e an d w hil e
, ,

y o u d o DO t g e t t h e fr i gi d c li ma t e y o u ha v e all t h e t e m p e r a te
z o n e te m p e r a tur es .

T h e p e r c e n ta g e o f illn e s s i n t h e Ar my is lo w e r t ha n it w o uld
b e in t h e so u the r n p o r tio n o f t h e Un ite d S ta te s ?
Y e s air ; a n d that t o o whe n t h e co n d it io n s i n t h fie ld ar e
, , , e

an y thi n g b u t t h e bes t .

N o w a bo u t t h e s ti p e nd p ai d t h e p a r is h p r ie s ts b y t h e G ov
,

e r n m e n t o f S p ain tha t v a r i ed fr o m $ 5 00 t o
I

T h e hig h es t sa lar y p a id w a s w hi c h w a s p a id t o fr o m
te n t o tw e lve p a r i s he s i n t h e e n tir e ar c h ip e lag o T h e o th r s

. e

we r e $ 9 00 $ 8 00 $ 600 . , d $ 5 00
, an .

H o w wer e t h e c hurc he s bu ilt i n y o u r s e e ?


The sa me as i n a ll t h e r e s t o f t h e ar c hi p e l a g o . Us ually at

th e ini tia tive of t h e p a r i s h p r i e s ts w h o u s ua lly


u t ili z e d an ,

a m o u n t w hi c h wa s ap p r o p r i a t e d b y t h e go v e r n m e n t o f Sp ain
fo r a c hu r c h bui ldin g fun d w hi c h w a s fiv
-
s ix a d e ig ht h un
,
n , , n

d r e d d o lla r s a cc o r d in g t o t h e c a t e g o r y o f t h e p ar i s h
, In fa c t .
,

i n t h e m ajo r i t y o f c as es b y t h e ai d o f t h e p ar i s h io n e r s the m ,

se l v e s be c au se it w a s a lway s t h e g r e a t e s t am b it io n o f t h e ln
,

ha bit a n ts o f a ba r r i o t o be c o me fir s t a mu n i cip a lity b y the m


s e lv e s a n d n e xt a p a r i s h an d ve r y o fte n fo r t h e p ur p o s e o f g e t
,

t in g a g o v e r n m e n t fo r t he m s e lve s the y w o u ld a d v a n c e fun d s fo r


. .

a c hur c h he lp t o build a c hur c h



.

A p ar is h us ually h a d o n e c hur c h i n t h e m ai n p a r t o f t h e t o wn ?

Ea c h t o w n co n tain e d o n e p a r i s h c hur c h T h e civ il u it w as . n

also the e c cle s ia s t ic a l u n it T h e p ar is h an d t h e p ue bl o we r e


,
.

ide n tic al .

A n d t h e p ue blo w a s lik e o ur to w n s hi p in t h e Un i t e d S ta tes .

an d t he p r o v i n c e w as ma d e up o f p u e bl o s ea ch wi th a u m ber , . n

o f ba r r io s ?
.

Yes s ir ; a n d a t time s the s e bar r i o s s ur r o u n d e d t h e p ue blo


, .

No w i n t h e bar r ios c o uld n o t the y ha ve c h ur c he s a s wel l


, ,

a s i n to w n s
?

No On ly 8 Sp e c ie s o f c ha p e ls ju s t fo r t h e p ur p o s e o i
. .

ha v in g o n ce y e a r a fun c tio n i n ho n o r o f t h e t itul ar s ai n t o f


a

tha t bar r io a n d als o fo r t h e us e o f th o s e wh o b y r e a s o n o f


,

the ir d is ta n c e fr o m t h e ce n t r al c hur c h c o uld n o t g o the r e t o


p e r f o rm the ir r e lig io u s d e vo tio n s .

I be lie ve t h e o r d in ar y c an o n ic al r ule w a s tha t p ers o n w a s a

n o t o blig e d t o a tte n d c hu r c h b y g o i n g m o r e tha n 4 o r 5 mil e s


?

Tha t w a s n o t a n o blig a t io n I t w as o n ly r e c o mm e n d s . a.

t io n . A b o ut 4 l e ag ue s Th a t w as o n ly r e c o m m e n d a ti o n
. a .

s o tha t e n o ug h c hu r c he s mi g ht b e built t o p r e ve n t a n y b o d y fr o m

g o in g m o r e t ha n 4 le a gue s
I n w ho s e n am
.

e is t h e l a n d o n w hi c h t h e c hur c he s s ta n d ?
I n t h e n ame o f t h e s up e r io r aut ho r i t y o f t h e d i o c e s e w h o ,

w as t h e bi s ho p B ut as a m a tte r o f fa c t t he r e w e r e n o w r i t
. , ,

t e n de e ds be ca us e t h e c hurc h t h e s e mi n ar y an d t h e p ar s o n ag e
, , ,
.

wer e co n s id e re d as p ublic bui ldin g s s o tha t e v e n afte r t h e r e g ,

65 c

Tne Sen a t e Documen t and Roma n m n
is t r a t io n w a s i n s t it ut e d t h e y w e r e n o t r e c o r d e d a n d this g r o w s ,

o ut o f t h e p r o vi s io n o f t h e S p an i s h l a w w h i c h i s bas e d o n t h e ,

v i s io n o f t h e can o n i ca l l a w , t ha t e v e r y thi n g t h a t 1 8 d e vo t e d
p r o

t o wo r s hip i s o u t s id e o f c o mm e r c e an d t r ad e .

No w t h e ho us e in w hi c h y o u li ve is t h e title t o th a t re gi s
h -

t e r ed ?
I do n ot kn ow of an y re gis tr atio n of it His to r y r e c o un t s .

I
.

hav e bee n ab le t o in v e s t iga t e that in t h e s e v e n te e n t h


'

so far as ,

ce n t ur y t h e p lo t o n w h i c h t h e fo r m e r r es ide n c e s to o d (fo r it h ad
b e e n c ha n g e d i n t im e ) a M e x i c a n s e c ul ar p r i e s t bui lt t h e ho u s e
o ut o f h is o w n fun d s an d i n hi s will le ft i t t o hi s s u c ces s o r
,
.

T h e r e as o n t hi s M e x i c a n bi s h o p h a d t o b uild i t o u t o f his o w n
_

p o c ke t w as tha t th e r e w e r e ot s uffic ie t g o v e r n m e n t fun d s n n ,

as it w as an o bli g a t i o n of the S p an is h g o v er n m en t to
build c hur c h e s p r o vi d e s e min a r ies ,
an d co n v e n to s an d , ,

b ui ld a p al a c e fo r t h e bis ho p a ll of whi c h g r o w s o ut o f a , ,

co m p ac t b e tw t h e P o p e an d t h e g o v e r n m e n t o f S p ain t hat

e en

they s ho ul d e n d o w c hur c he s an d p r i e s ts t o carr y o n r e ligio us


'

te a c hin g s .

N o w t h e c a t he d r al i s h e ld n t h e s a m e w ay ? i

Thi s c a th ed r al h as b e e n d e s tr o y e d fo ur t im es b y fir e an d
e ar t hquakes b u t it w as n o t b u il t b y p u bli c fu n d s o r ig in ally b u t
, ,

b y se ve r al a r c hbi s ho p s T h e g o v e r n m e n t h a s h o w e ve r . i n ve s t , ,

ed a bo ut 3 20 0 i n o n e o r t w o r e c o n s tr u c ti o n s o f i t .

An d t h e la n d o n w hi c h it s tan d s tha t is w ha t o r dinar i ly —


'

ma ke s t h e titl e s t o t h e bu ild in g ?
Tha t w as g o v e r n m e n t la n d All o f the s e is l an d s w e r e calle d .

r o y a l l an d s .

M y que s t io n s ar e d ir e c t e d t o w ar d a s t a i g h t e n i n g o u t o f t h e r

t i t le s bec ause w h e r e th e r e i s s e p ar a t io o f c h u r c h an d s ta t e
, n

y o u h a ve g o t t o ha v e s e p a a t e t it le s r .

'

Yes i t h as g o t t o as s um e a n o t h e r fo r m
, s ir ; now .

Wh at m y ques t io n le a d s up t o is t h e p r o p e r fo r m o f a c tio n
"

t o b e ta ke n b y t h e g o ve r n m e n t o f t h e i s la n d s , r e p r e s e n t in g t h e
g o v e r n m e n t o f t h e Un i t e d S t at e s , t o g ive t o t h e c h u r c h and t o
t he Ca t ho li c s of the p a r is h t he le g al -
t i t le to the pr o p er ty us e d
fo r w o r s hip , an d to t h e p ar s o n a g e s a n d se m in a r i es ,
be c a us e we
ar e n o t he r e to r o b the C
a t h o ic c h u r c l h .

T he go ve r n me n t m ay m a k e m is t ak e s '
b ut it w il l ne ve r do
I b ee n s o c e r t ai n o f thi s t h a t I
,
,

an in jus t ice . h a ve ,
d id n ot ,
li ke
o th e r s t a ke an y p r e c a u t i o n t o a s s u e t h e t i t le t o r m y p r o p er t y
I f lt
,
,

fo r e c er t ai n t h e g o v e r n m e n t w o uld p r o te c t m e i n t h e m a tte r
I d
.

un er s t a n d t h a t b y t h e c an o n ic a la w t h e p e r l son i n w ho s e
n a me t he t b e lo n gi n g t o t h e c h u r c h s ho uld s t a n d t he
'

p r op er y is

_ bis ho p th a t
_
-
is , he is t h e p e r s o n r e p r e s e n t in g t h e c hur c h in the
d io c e s e , an d t ha t i t i s t h e d ut y of e a ch bi s h o p t o ma ke a will
se c ur in g t he p r oper t y t o his s uc ce s so r ?
Tha t 1 s co r r e c t .

We ha ve h a d co mm un ic at io n fr o m v ar io us in t h e
p e op le
pr o v i n ce s bui lt t h i s chur ch
wh o we
say ,
, a n d y e t it s t an d s o n
s ta te p r o p e r t y a n d w e s h o ul d lik e t o ha v e
, t h e tit l e c le ar e d u p i n
so m e w ay No w w o uld t h is k in d o f c o n v e y a n ce e x r e s s
p t he
.
,

r ea l t it l e T o t h e a r c h b is h o p o r t h e bi s h o
p o f t h e d i o ce s e
:
, for
t h e us e o f t h e C a t h o li c r e s id e n t s o f t h e a r t ic ular
p ue blo ?
"
p
Yes tha t 1 8 t h e p r o p e w a y t o p r o c e e d
, r .

66
Tue Sen a t e Doc um en t ana

Roma n is m
Of co urse the only questions that are likely to arise will be
( like th e Jan Jose case ) with res pect t o suc h other properti es
I am told to which complete relig ious characte r is not assured ;
,

but with respect t o all property used for worship or mere n ec


essary ad juncts to worship— the seminary the parsonage — there ,

will not be the slightest trouble about our giving to the church
t hat property and giving the church a legal ti tl e I do not mean .

t o intimate that the other property may not be o f the same char
ac te r but o f this ther e c an be no doubt
. .

Yes ; this is very clear and the rest will go on clearing up


, ,

Now what I want your grace to explain t o me is the obras


pias and the obras mitre .

Those funds whose administration is dir ectly and ex clu


s ive ly in the h ands o f the bishop are call ed obras pias of the

mitre but th o se generally kn own as obras pias ” are intr ust
.

ed to the administration o f another party or of another entity


under the j uri s diction of the bishop Sometimes it is contr olled .

by a single person an d sometimes by a boa r d ; ordinaril y i t is a


board That is the only d ifference between wha t is known as
.

the mitre ” fund and the obras pias ” fund .

Now what goes to make up the obras pias


In the year 1 85 0 several obras pias ” which were intended ,

for separat e objects and which are ad ministered by different


people were brought to gether and centralized an d put under
, ,

o n e d irection The funds which constitute what is kno wn here


.

as the general obras pias are four : Santo Domingo San ,

F r an c i s co 1 s ab e l and the Re co lle t o s


, , , These four fund s were .

managed by four different people and when the funds were all ,

j oin e d toget her these four formed a board for the management
of t hem all The j oinin g or br ing ing tog ether of these four
.

funds was by order of the Spanish govern ment whose idea was ,

to found this Spanish Filipino Bank and which as a matter of


-

, ,

f ac t was founded by the union of these fou r funds


,
The gov .

e r n men t wa s very anxiou s to establish a bank and they b e ,

th ought themselves that the easiest way ( recog n izing their right
of inte rvention in ecclesiastical matter by p on t i flcal author ity)
was to unite the four funds Under the by la ws these four .

funds are to be managed so as to produce the greatest benefit


for the objects for which they are intended They are usually ,

employed in advancing money upon mortgages to land property


titles The archbishop presides over the annual mee ting o f
.

t his board but they have to render account to him at all times
,
.

The income of the fund is used to pay expenses of the


masses to build charitable institutions and to discharge other ,

pious work s as I understand it ?


,

Yes sir All o f these funds were originated by Spaniards


, . .

There are no natives interested whatever in it Aside from the .

religious and pio us ends to which the i n co me of these funds are “

devoted they also pay yearly portions of the income to the de


scend e nte of the orig inal makers of thos e funds according t o
the will o f the man who founded the fund .

They do not however tur n over any of the i nco me to t h e


, ,

general treasury o f the religious orders except f o r s em oe s r e n


dered in g iving mass an d that sort o f t hing .

67
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t R om a n zr m

and

The only amounts which are paid over t o the treasury of


t h e different orders are such as the founders of the fund them
s el ves ordered should be paid over at c ertain times and t hose ,

ar e handed directly over to the d ifier e n t orders for d ifier e n t pur


poses acco rding to the behests of the founders o f the fund
, ,

under the super vis ion of t h e archbis hop There ar e some o f .

these funds des tined eve ry year to the co nven t o f S anta Clara ,

and s ome t o missionar y work in China The regular orde rs .

here are no more beneficiaries t han any other beneficiar y of a


'

will would be .

As I understand it the fund or the obras pias is princi


,

pally occupied i n supporting the larger part o f t h e capita l of


the Fi lipino Ban k Is i t st ill there ?
.

There have been large accreti ons to the or ig ina l fund an d


I d o not know now what proportion of the capital it re pr e se nt s


,

I do n o t
,

b ut i n the beginni ng it was the capi t al of the bank .

remember th e figures ve r y wel l but I have an idea that when


p

the several funds were paid over at first for establishing t h e


bank they amounted to
,

Would your grace be willing to give me a general estimate


as t o the amount the obras pias h as now r e ache d an d it s
annual in co me ?
I cannot te ll you o fiha n d but I can get it for you an d f ur
,

nis h it t o you in writing .

There is a gr e at deal of mis information on the gen er al sub


je c t of e cclesias ti cal ownership of prope r ty here and I want t o ,
clear it up if I can .

I understand that ver y well and fully re cognize myse lf the ,

aptness and proneness of the people in this society to attribute


wrong doings and evil impulses to everybody I have always .

pro ce e ded o n the plan to give out every thin g and will be glad .

to have the opportunity .


As to the mit e fund is tha t l ike th e ot her ex cept th at
r , ,

your grace administers it as archbishop and it was provide d in ,

the fund that you should administe r it ?


It is ad ministered by the se cretary of th e archbishop This .

mitre fund or what goes t o make the mitre fund now


,
,
was originally known as a f un d administe red by differ ,

e nt for different purpo s es It was publicly admin is te re d .


,
and a certain archb ishop ordere d it to be unite d an d mad e into
one fund and put u nder the direct su pe rvis ion of t h e ar chbishop .

What wa s the source of the fund ?


It is a pious legac y given for mass only , .

And that is under the direct contr ol of the secretary for th e


archbishop ?
Yes sir , .

It has now grown to be a large fund ?


The only way in which it has grown is by the enhanced
value of the property fro m which the legacy flows .

But I suppose the contribut ions of those who died and le ft


these legacie s continued and i n creas ed ?
There are al so losse s by t yp oons fir e s and earthquakes . .

Have you any agricultural property in either of these funds ?



In the general obras pias not i n the mitre ” Yes b ut

. .
,
it is all recorded .

, es
T/ze Sen a t e Doc um en t d R om a n t y m
'

an

that t h e y s ig n e d i t b ecause s o meone asked t he m t o do so .

Another serious obstruc tion to the a d minis t rat ion o f jus t ic e in _

these case s is th at e ven when actual guilt exists they will in , ,

making the ch arges s urround them with so many lies an d i m


,

mate r i al a ccus ations that to sift o ut the truth is al most an im


,

possi b ilit y and the y really render the charges useless by this
,

false and infamous cal umny .

Do you th ink that the immorality such as ex iste d was the , ,

cause o f any hostility on the part of the parishioners against


the priests ?
Absolutely none at all because they have n o moral se nse , .

The principle in this lies in that they do not ever complain


against a priest n o matter whether he has t h is or that ugly vice
, .

The only ti me they complain is when they have a little r evenge


to reap .

Do they complain ag ainst the native priest s ?


S ometimes ve ry seldom where there is a clas h of in terests
, , .

Otherwise they never accuse them .

On the whole the native priests are much less r igi d in t heir
,

morality than the Spanish priests are they not ? ,

A great deal less As in the physical sense he is weaker so


.
,

also is he in the moral It must also be recognized as a fact


.

that a native priest at the head of the par ish has much less pres
tige than a white priest .

N o w as to the chastity of the Philippine women ; they are


not generall y and promiscuously unchaste are they ? ,

No they are not It is true of all people tha t there is more


, .

chastity in women than in men b ut here it is especially notice ,

able
.

I have observed that they are quite modest accordi ng to


their lights Now while they are not promiscuously unchaste
.
,

I have heard it said that there is a good deal of disregard for


the necessity of the ceremony of marriage before they begin to
live togeth er as man and wife .

But in turn the Indian woman living in concubinage i s al


ways restless She wants to have her marriage solemnized in
.

order t o legitimatize the children .

And she is usually faithful to the man with whom she is


living ?
Generally ye s ; an d generally the man is not The woman
, . .

is better than the man here in every way In i nte lligence in .


,

virtue and in labor ; and a great deal more economical She is


,
.

very much given to tr ad e and trafficking If any rights or priv .

ileg e s are t o be grante d to the natives do not give them to the


,

men but to the women .

Then you think it would be much better to give the women


the right to vote than the men ?
Oh much mor e Why even i n the fields it i s the wome n
, .
,

who do the work The me n go to the co ck fig h t s and ga mble


.

And the men have no hesitancy about living o n the earnings


of the women ?
The woman is the o n e who supports t h e man here ; so
ever y law of j ustic e dem ands t h at even in pol itical life they
should have the privil ege over the men You have to conform .

to nature I must re nder j ust tr ib ute to the Ame rican army here
.

.
Tue Sen a t e Doc um en t d Roma n zy m

an

I have noticed all along the con sid erati o n tbav have had for the
women It is worthy o i? co mment If they had been S pan i ar d s
. .
,

o r Italians or Frenchmen they would have committe d more


, ,

breaches in the li n e o f morality than the American soldier has .

Throughout the provinces the rumor had run that t he Am erican


soldie r was a beast in every way a savage —
.

As to the looting of the churches — how much was done by


th e volunteers ? I have understo od that they have been very
s everely p unished for wh at they did .

The di s lik e o f the native women to the American is due a


great deal to the despoliation o f t h e c hurches for as i n other , ,

countries she is more religious naturally than the man and a


, ,

g reat deal o f t h at w as done W h at has created the greatest


o utc ry against the American troops was the tr eatment of t h e


sacred images in the ch urches tearing ofi arms and throwing —

them outside like a puppet .

That has ceased since the volunteers we n t away ?


Yes There were very man y good men among those for
mer v o lun e e r s ; but naturally the bad element controlled

, , .

As to possibil ity of the parish priests obtaining the depor


t at i on of men whom they thought ought to be ba n ished from
the community by application to the governor general will you - —

ki ndly give me your view o n that ?


'

Those are very rare cases There have been a f e w Upon . .

the petition o f a parish priest any d eportation ensuing is a ve ry


rare case As to the d e p o r at t io n of me n by the civil authorities
.

upon their own investigation assisted in a way by the parish ,

priests but not upon his initiative there were several ; but the
, ,

civil authorities generally made the accusation against the man ,

and the governor general would ask the parish priest to re port
upon the facts in the case and b e rendered that report and it
, ,

was understood to be entirely con fidential and it might be for ,

or against the man and after wards when deportati on ensued


, , ,

very often the local civil authority would give it out that the
parish priest made the ac cusation and naturally it brought upon ,

him the dread o f the community That has been done in all .

sections of the island b ut principally amOn g the Tagalogs


,
.

No w I want to talk w ith your grace a little on the school


.

question ?
That is very important .

We are charged with the duty of establishing a public


sch ool sys em here and t h e only w ay we can make it a good
'
.
,

syste m at all is to levy sub s tantial taxes .

I think that the time when that will be a proper proceeding


will be delayed considerabl y It is true that the best use that
.

c an be made o f the proceeds o f tax ation is in education You .

have laid down the principle that the best thing to do at the
begin n in g is to establish a good public school system and I will ,

lay do wn the principle tha t you will have to do it independently


of the Indian To give the administration of the schools to
.

h im i s t o throw the money in the fir e .

Q
.
We expect t o retain s ufii c ie n t control over the system to
prevent that if we can but what we need most is the c o oper
,
-

ati on o f the church .

A It has always been the d s ir e of t h e church t o inst ruct


.

a
Roma n zr m
'

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t an a

t he c hil d re n in or d er to ma k e a go o d fo un d a tio n fo r lig io us


r e .

tr aini n g a n d y o u ,
w an t t o a wa k e n t he in t e llig e n ce of t h e c hild

s u ffic ie n t t o e n a b le
h im t o g r e w t h e c iv il s id e o f life .

Q Yo u kn o w t h e r e s t r i c t io n s p la Ce d u p o n t h e dis bur s e m e n t
.

o f mo n e yr i n Am e r ica r a i s e d b y t a x a t io n i n t ha t it m us t b e n o n

s e c t ar ia n But t h is is a Ca t h o l ic c o u n tr y an d it w ill b e a be tte r


. ,

co un r t y as it is u. bet t er ive Ca t h o li c c o un t r y , and w e w sh t o g i


as full o p p o r t un i ty as w e c an s u bje c t t o t h e r e s t r ic tio n s I ha ve ,

me n tio n e d fo r t h e i n s tr uc t io n o f t h e s c ho o l c hil d r e n e ithe r b e


, ,

fo r e o r aft e r t h e r e g ular i n s t r u c tio n b y t h e p r ie s t o r te ac he r ,

w ho m t h e c hu r c h w ill Se le c t i n m o r a lit y a n d r e lig io n an d we , ,

wis h t o g iv e t h e sa m e o p p o r t u n i t y t o o t he r c hu r c hes No w .
,

s u c h a s y s t e m h a s w o r k e d i n s o m e p ar t s o f Am e r ica I n a gr ea t .

m an y p ar t s o f A me r ica n o r e l igio us in s t u c t io n is p er m itt e d i n



r

t h e s c ho o ls a t a ll b u t w e a r e i n a d ifie r e n t c o un t r y an d so lo n g
, ,

a s we ke e p w it h in t h e lin e o f n o t o ur s e lv es p a y i n g p e o p le fo r
in s tr uc t io n i a p ar t ic ula r r e lig io w e w an t t o give full o p p o r
n n ,

t un i t y t o t h e o p e r a t io n o f t h e ch ur c h i n m o r a l an d r e li g io n s in
s tr u c ti o n t o t h e c h ild en a n d w e h a v e s a id t o o ur s u p e r i n t e n d e n t
r ,

o f in s tr uc ti o n tha t w h ile i t is n o t p o s s ible o f c o u r s e t o d is , ,

c r imi n a te i n fa v o r o f C a t h o l ic t e a c he r s i n s e l e c tin g tho s e w ho m

w e ho p e t o br in g o u t h e r e w e a r e v e y a n x io u s in an y le g itim a te , r

w ay t o m a k e th a t um b e r a ju s t a n d fa ir p r o p o r tio n n -
.

A Tha t is a v e r y g o o d id e a
. . .

Q W e a r e v e r y an x io u s i n e v e ry way tha t w e c an le gi ti
.
,

m a te ly t o s e c ur e t h e p o w e r ful c o O p e r a tio n o f t h e C a tho li c


,
-

c hur ch i n e d u c a t io n a l a n d o t h e r m e a s u e s r .

A T h e g o v e r n m e n t m a y r e ly u p o n t h a t n a tur a lly
.
fo r if ,

o n ly fo r o ur ow p r id e w e wo uld e n d ea vo r t o c ul t i va te r e lig io u s
n

p r i c ip le s
n .

Q H o w m any p r i e s ts in y o u r s e e w e r e as s aulted or im
.

p r is o n ed d u r in g t h e r e v o lu t io n s o f 1 8 9 6 a n d 1 89 8 ?
A N ea r ly a ll o f t he m o u t s id e o f M an ila
.
.

Q H o w lo n g w e r e t h e y k e p t in p r is o n ?
.

A Alm o s t u p t o t h e t i me t hi s r e s c ue to o k
p lace w he n t h e
.

Am e r i c an s a d a n c e d u p t o t h e n o r t h a n d d o w n t o t h e C am a r in e s
v
.

We r e n y o f t he m kille d ? a

A t t h e b e g in n in g i h Za m ba le s t h e y k ille d thr ee
, .
A ft e r , .

w ar d s t h e le a d s of t h e i n s ur r e c t o r y m o ve m e n t i n t h e fie ld
er

y g a v e the m e v e r y
t e ate d t h e m
r e y w e ll s o m uch s o t h at t he
v r —

thin g t h c y h ad S o m uch s o t h a t t h e S p a n is h o ffic e r s a n d


.

s o ld ie r s to g e t t h e c r um b s o f ho s p it a li ty
c a me
w hic h g o e s to ,

p r o e t h a t t h e p e p le d o n o t h a t e t h e p r ie s t s a s m u c h a s t h e
v o

K t ip u n
a w ul d m a ke o e b e l ie v e
an s o n .

To wh a t d y ou t t r ib u te t h is h o s tilit y a a in s t t h e fr iar s
o a
g
s u ch a s e x is t e d ?

B e c a us e the p a r is h l p r ie s t w as lway s te r r o r
a t he to e vi
d o e r s a n d t h e fe w w h o h a d i d e a s o f i n d e
p en d e n c e a n d c o uld
,

e x p l a i n t h e m d id n o t w a t a n
y E ur o p e a n wit n e s s e s o f w ha t the n
y
p e o p le T h e m is s io n ar y
w e t r y in g t
er d o w it h t h e m a s s o f t h e
o
.
,
b e h e a fr i a o r s e cul a r p ie s t w a s alw a
y s an a ge n t o f o r d e r a n d
r r ,

m o r a lit y nd that i w h a t th e y d is li k e d
, a Th o s e w h o like d t o
s
.

li v e b y fis h in g in t r o u b le d w at e r s d id n o t w a n t a n y mis s io n ar y
a r o un d t hem A n o t h e r r e a s o n fo r t h e ha t r
ed o f the fr i ar s i s
.

tha t all o f t h e s e K a tip un an s w h o w a n t in d e e n d e n ce w a


p nt ,
,

72
Tbe Sen a t e Documen t d Romnn zsn z
'

an

not h in g b ut n a tiv e p r i e s t s b e c a us e t he y c an m a n ag e t he m a n d
,

m ake the m th e ir in s tr ume n ts a n d t h ey k n o w t ha t t he y c o uld ,

n o t m a n a g e t h e w hi te p r i es t s an d the r e fo r e the y a r e tr y in g t o
,

m ake t h e p eo p l e ha te t h e w hi t e p r ies ts .

I t h a s b e e n c har g e d tha t s o m e o f t h e fe e li n g ag ain s t t h e


fr iar s w a s d ue t o t h e r ep o r te d ac t io n o f t h e fr iar s a g ain s t Riz al .

Will y o u b e g o o d e n o ugh t o t e ll m e— to give me a n a c c o un t o f


'

t h e p r o cee d in g s ag ain s t R iz al fr o m t h e s ta n d p o in t o f t h e S p a ni s h

g o ve r n m e n t an d o f a S p a n ia r d w h o w as her e ?
I will b e ver y gla d to d o s o be c aus e it is o n e o f t h e gr e a te s t ,

c a lumn ie s tha t h as be e n c as t up o n t h e c hur c h T h e c as e o f .

Riz al is o n e in whic h t h e c hur c h h a d n o in t e r fe r e n c e wha te v e r ,

be gin nin g w ith t h e ar c hbis ho p d o w n t o t h e lo w e s t fr iar The y ‘

have all mad e t h e e fio r t to h an g t h a t a c cus at io n up o n t h e fr iar s .

Riz al w as in E uro p e a n d h e c am e o v e r t o t h e Philip p in es an d


or g an iz e d w ha t h e c all e d t h e Phi lip p in e Le ague an d t h e g o v “
,

e r n m e n t s o ught t o s e e i n th a t a n e l e m e n t o f up r i s in g a m o n g t h e

p e o p le a n d the y be tho ug h t th em s e lv e s o f s e n d i n g hi m t o D ap it
, ,

OR t h e c o a s t o f M in d an ao H e the n a s ke d p e r m is s io n o f G e n er al
.

Blan c o t o g o t o C uba a s v o lu n t e e r s ur g e o n a T h a t p e r mis s io n .

w a s g r an te d a n d h e c am e up fr o m t h e is lan d o f D ap it t o Man il a
, ,

but the y d id n o t le t hi m c o m e o n s h o r e b u t he ld h im he r e un t il ,

t h e Sp an is h m ail s t e a m e r ar r i v e d an d the n we n t t o B arce lo n a , .

Wh il e h e w as o n h is w ay t o B ar c elo n a t h e up r is in g o f 1 89 6
"

oc c ur r e d T h e m ilit a r y autho r i tie s b y o r d er o f Gen e ral Bl an c o


. , ,

i n s ti tut e d a n i n quir y be fo r e a mili tar y tr i bun al whi c h w as e n ,

tit e ly militar y a n d it ap p e ar e d th a t Riz al wa s c omp l ica t e d in


,
'

this in s ur r e c to r y m o ve m e n t Whe n the y d is c o v e r e d fr o m t h e .

r e s ul t o f th is in v e s t ig a tio n t ha t h e w as im p lic a t e d in i t t h e ,

c iv il g o ve r n o r t e le g r a p h e d t o ha v e hi m ap p r e he n d e d a t B ar c e
lo n a o n h is ar r i val a n d r e t ur n e d t o M a n il a T h e in quir y w as .

c o n tin u e d at th is t im e n o t o n ly a g a in s t him b ut o the r s w h o


, ,

w e r e al s o alle g e d t o b e im p lic a t e d wi t h him a n d t h e r e s ult o f ,

t h e m ili t a r y tr ibun a l w a s t h e s e n t e n ce o f d e a th I n t h e w ho le .

o f th a t tr i a l th e r e w a s n o w r it t e n or v e r b a l te s t im o n y b y a n y

on e co n n ect ed wi th t h e p r i e s ts I t w as m ilitar y tr ibu n al ,. a

he ar in g a c a se with o ut t h e s lig hte s t in te r ve n t io n o f t h e r e ligio us


o r d e r s ; b ut fo llo w i n g t h e us u a l c us t o m o f a t tr ibu t in g e v e r y
,

thi n g tha t w a s a r d uo us t h a t w a s b a d that w as w r o n g t o t h e


, , ,

r e lig i o us e l e m e n t the y ca s t t h is s l a n d e r up o n t he m wh ic h h as
bes id e s I my s lf t o o k
, ,

no fo u n d a t i o n i n fa c t wh a te v e r ; a n d , , e

p e r s o n al p a i n s
i n b e h a l f o f s o m e o t h e r s w h o w e r e c ha r g e d a bo u t
tha t (b ut n o t w ith h im ) wi t h c o m p lic it y in thi s in s ur r e c t o r y
m o ve m en t a n d I s uc c e e de d i n s av in g the ir liv e s b ut n o t o n e
,
,

e v er s a id a n y t hi n g ab o ut tha t a n d they ar e walki n g a r o un d ,

M a n il a da il y It h a s a lway s b e e n t h e c us t o m t o a t t r ibut e e v e r y
.

killi n g b y judic ial d e c r e e fo r p o lit i c a l o fie n s e s i n t h e is la n d s t o


t h e fr ia r s wi t h o u t a n y g r o u n d wha te ve r ,
.

D o y o u k n o w Ag uin aldo ?
Y e s s ir ,
I n C avi te w he n h e was pre s id e n te h e ho n o re d
. , ,

me a g r e at d e a l wi th m us ic .

W h t ki n d o f a m a n i s h e ?

I c a n n o t s ay wh e the r h e is cul t ur e d o r un
a

H e is p o o r .

H e h a s o nly h a d t hr e e y e ar s c o ur s e i n s e c o n d ar y in

c ulture d
'

s t r u c tio n w itho u t a n y b e n e fit t o him s e lf


,
.

73
R oma n zr m
'

T/ze Sen a t e Doc umen t and

Doe s he speak Spanish ?


I do not know whethe r h e has learned any s ince he h as b ee n
in the field b ut before he c o uld not follow a conversa t i on i n
,

S pan ish .

But hasn t he more force of characte r than the men he h as


gathered abo ut him ?


Not at all Circumstance s have favored him No esp ecial
.
.

pe rsonal meri t at all His only claim was d ue to the fact t hat
.

he was the first t o ri se against the Spanish Government and kil l


a few men of t h e g uardia civil in Cavite w h ich with the ir , ,

proneness to ex aggerating eve r y thing they construed into a great ,

v ictory and he was carr ie d on th e fl o od tides of popularit y


,
.

He has no pe rsonal valor whate ver .

A UG US T 7 1 9 00 , .

TH E B I SHOP OF J A RO .

Q How large is your diocese ?


.

A All the island of Panay of Negros the district of


. , ,

R o mblon and Z amboanga and J0 1 0


Q You have a beautiful part of the archipe lago I am told ?
.
,

.
,

A Yes sir
. , .

Q How many parish priests were t here in your dioce se b e


. .

fore the revolu t ion ?


A About two hundred in cluding the missions
.
, .

Q Can you s tate generally how these priests were divide d


.

with relation t o the religious orders ?


'6 A As follows : T wenty six parishes were presided over by
.
-

na ti ve priests Three parishes which were next adjoining the


. ,

see and t wo neighb orin g islands and all of what is known as th e


,

district of E e l e n which is more than one h alf the province o f


,
-

Capiz All the re st of the island of Panay which is composed


.
,

of three provinces Iloilo Capiz and Antique were w i t h the


, , , ,

Augustinian f athers The Re co le t o s were i n the district of


.

R omblon Palawan and the island of Bolava


, T h e Jesuits were
, .

i n Min d i n ao and Jolo


I will s nd yo u to mor 1 ow the number of each order in the
.

e -

districts mentioned The bishopric did not have t o be presided


.

over by the members of any order My prede ce ssor was a .

Be c o le t o but the one prior t o him was not


, Jaro is the most .

recent bishopric .

Q It was created out of the diocese of Cebu ?


A : Yes sir , .

Q What civil or poli tical functions did the priests in your


diocese actually perfor m? I do not mean what the law r e
quired them to perform but what was thrust on them by th e ,

Spanish government an d what did they actually do ? ,

A By reason of the fact that there were hardly any edu


.

c at e d men at all in the provinces the priests were called upon ,

to perform al most every ( fli ce ad ministrative and executive o f , ,

a civil character but he usually occupied the position o f pre


,

siding c uice r of provincial boards For instance when I .


,

ar rived here in 1 8 75 and was desi gnated to g o to the Vi s ayas t o


learn the language in a province of 3 00 0 00 there were only f o ur
,

Spa niards , and conse quently th ey h ad to rely o n t h e pari sh


74
Tue Sen a t e D ocum en t and Roma n is m
p riests to make a connection between the gov e rnment and th e
peop le .

Q How long did it take you to learn the Visayan language ?


.

A Fourteen months
. .

Q You learned it su fficiently well in that time to preach in


.

A Yes air ; in four mont hs you could learn enough to


.
,

t r ansact business .

Q Is it more difficult than the Tagalog ?


.

A They are all about the sa me


. .

Q What do you think of the characte r isti cs of the Vis ay


.

an s as compared with the Tagalogs ?

A More pac i fi c an d quiet They are more humble and sub


. .

missive One of the proo f s of that is that all of the Ta galogs


.

that go from here i mmed iately impose on the people and get the
best o ut of them It may be that the Tagalogs have a more
,
.

worldly knowledge than the Visayans It must al s o be borne .

in mind th at the Tagalogs in this part of the island s have had


more rubbing up agains t the foreign elemen t When I went .

t here and up to a ver y recent time there were no foreign ers in ,

that sec tion .

Q How are they as to industry ? Do the Visayans like


.

work any bett er than the Tag alogs 7 .

A I believe perhaps a Visayan is l e ss addicted to work


.

even than a T agalog becau s e they have every thing at han d and
,

nothin g calling for work Never t heless i n those places whe re . ,

pr o g r e s s demand s more need s they are working very wel l and


in the twenty t wo years I have lived there the advance in agri
.

culture has been very g reat .

Q And you think they are capable of b e ing trained to wo r k ?

A Yes ai r
. The proof of that is that the g re at sug ar
, .

plantations owned by foreigners are worked by the Visayans .

Q Are they skillful mechanics ? .

A For imitative p urpose s yes Initiative th e y have none


. , . .

Even in agriculture th ey do not evolve anyth ing themse lves .

How i it as com ared with the Tagalo s a s to th i r lack


'

e
Q . s p g
of a ppreciation o f the diffe re nce between m eum and tuu m
A About the same You c an s ee that afte r all the time the
'

.
.

parish priests have s pent i n tryi n g to bring them up in p o per r

ways they immediately assert themselves as the o w ne r s o f


,

ever ything an d want to appropriate everything to them s el ves


,
.

As most o f the population live e ithe r on river bank s or t h e a s


shore where i n half an h our they can get one o r two ii h an d a
,
-

l itt le s al t and with some herbs that grow s pontaneou ly they


s
,
,

do n o t have to wor k and if a native has something the y w ant


\

they j u s t take it The climate it s e l f i s ve ry favo rab l e — they


.

hardly have to wear an y clothes W i th the introd ucti on o f new .

e le ments new civil i zation and the necessity o f bei n g clo t hed
, ,

i n public will bri n g ab out n e w con ditions but now climatic


,
,

co ndition s an d all are to t h e contrary .

Q As .
servants are they pilferer s

A Yes s ir Here for instance the Ilocan o s are c o n s id


.
,
. , ,

ered as g ood servants an d ot hers as b ad serv ants ; h ut s pe ak


,

ing broadly they are all the sa me Those who have bee n n ar .
e

e r to the priests have learned to be a little more honest


.

75

Rema n zs fn
'

Tne Sen a te D ecumen t ana

Q D o y o u t hi n k t h at t h e I lo c a n o s d o m a k e b e tt e r s e r v a n t s ?
I
.

be t t e r m o r a lly an d they
_

A . Ye s s i r ;. t h in k s o . T h ey ar e ,

wi l l s t ic k to a p l a c e lo n g e r . For in s t an ce , t he r e is an Ilo ca n o
w h o h ad b ee n t w e n ty y e a r s i n t he c o n ve n t , an d so me y ear s ago ,

in c l e an in g up be c am e l am e a n d w a s s e n t t o t h e
t he h o us e , h e
ho s p ita l a n d e c o v e r e d ; b u t h e is t h e o n l y o n e w h o h as n o t l e ft
r

d ur i n g t h e r e vo lut io n I n in d u s tr y i n fid e li t y an d m o r ali ty t h e
. , ,

Ilo c an o s ar e t h e be s t
Q I s up p o s e t h e p r i es ts i n y o u r dio c es e r e c e ive t h e s a m e
.

s tip e n d as t h e p r i e s t s t h r o ug ho u t o t he r p a r t s o f t h e is l an d ?
A . Yes , air ; the sa me .

Q . A nd the build i n g of th e c hur c he s w as m ad e in t h e sa me


way ?
A . Yes , s ir ; th e c hur ch go ve r n m e n t is t h e sa me in all t he

is lan d .

Q . Wit h r e fe r e n ce to t he tit le to the c hur c he s , ar e t he r e


d e ed s ?
lly Th e s e l an ds w e r e jus t do n a t e d
'

A . G en er a s p e a ki n g, no .

to t h e c h ur c h b y t h e g o er n m e n t o r b y p r iva t e pa r ti e s
v an d ,

ev e r y bo d y r e c o g n i ed t ha t fa c t so
z t he r e w a s n o e c e s s it y ,
n .

Q S o t h
. a t t h e e i s n o r i g h t e x c e p t th a t o f p r e s c r ip t i o n ?
r

o c c up a tio n W e ca n br i n g p r o o fs o f t h e
'

A Yes . si r ; an d ,
.

p o ss e s s io n. o f c o ur s e

Oh y e s ; I u n d e r s t a d b ut I a s k t h e que s t io n with r e f
.

Q . , n ,

e r e n c e t o thi s : W e m u s t c le ar up t h e tit le s in thes e is lan ds ; w e


m u s t ha ve t h e p u b li c l an d s s ur v e y e d an d w e m us t s e c u r e t h e
I fa n c y tha t y o u c an c o r r e c t me if I
,

r e gi s tr y o f p r op er t i tl e s .

am wr o n g tha t t h e la n d o n w h i ch m o s t o f t h e c hur c he s s ta n d
, .

s o fa as t h e r e c o r d s s ho w is g o e r n me n t l a n d ?
r , v

A I be lie ve t h a t i s t h e fa c t be c au s e tw e n ty t wo y e ar s a g o
whe n I w e n t t o m y p ar i s h t h e r e w as n o c hur c h o r c o n v e n ts o r
-
. , ,

, .

a n y t hi n g ; th e r e w a s j us t t h e p l an o f a t o w n m a d e b y t h e g o v

er n m e t wi t h t h e d iff e r e n t lo t s la id ou t a n d d es ig n a te d fo r c e r
n ,

tain p ur p o se s a lo t fo r t h e c h ur c h a n d fo r t h e c o ve n t s
— n .

Q O f c o ur s e t h e g o v e r m e n t o f t h e Un i te d S t a te s i s n o t
.
, n

her e t o d e p r ive t h e c hur ch o f it s p r o p e r t y o r t o d e p r i e t h e , v

p e o p le o f t h e r i g ht i n p e r p e t ui t y t o t h e u s e o f t h e c h u r ch an d ,

m y que s t i o n s w e r e p ut wi t h a vi e w o f d e ter m in i n g w ha t s te p s
oug ht t o b e tak e n t o m ake t h e p r o p e r t it le s fo r t h e la n d u p o r i
w hic h t h e c h ur c he s s tan d It h a s o c cur r e d t o m e tha t t h e be s t
.

w ay t o d o tha t w o ul d b e for t h e g o ve r n m e n t t o c o v e y e a c h n

co n ve n t o a n d c hu r c h t o t h e b is ho p o f t h e dio c e s e fo r t h e u se o f

t h e p ar t i c ular p a r i s h in w hi ch t h e chu r c h a n d c o n v e n to s t an d .

W o uld t ha t n o t a c co r d wi t h bo th t h e r i g hts o f t h e p ar is hio n e r s


w h o c o n tr i but e d t o t h e r e ct io n o f t h e c hur c h a n d to t h e r ule s
e

o f t h e c hur c h w it h r e fe e n c e t o t h e ho l d i n g o f p r o p e r ty ?
r

A Ye s s ir ; it s ho uld b e c o n ve y e d t o t h e o ffic e a n d n o t t o
.
,

t h e p er s on .

Q . bis h o p fo r t h e us e o f t h e p ar i s hi o n er s w h o live
To the
in tha t p ar t i c ul ar p ar is h ?
A Tha t i s p r o p e r
. Tha t w o uld s imp lify t h e w o r k F o r . .

in s t an c e t e n o r fif te e n familie s live in
, s e ttl e me n t The y a sk a .

t h e bi s ho p t o s e n d a p r ie s t H e g o e s the r e an d t he r e is n o .
,

c h ur ch an d t he r e i s
, o ho u se a n d the y g ive h im g r o un d fo r
n t he ,

ch ur ch a n d fo r t h e co n v e n to The y s e n d p e o p le t o g e t t h e l o s t .

76

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t Rom a n zfi n
'

an a

slaves took good care to feed t h e m well and care for the m s o ,

t hat they could do good work


'

Q A n d did they ever try to get a wa y ?


A There are some few cases There h av e bee n cases W h e n
. .

a girl wanted t o get mar ried and they would not let her because ,

she might lose some time from her work and then she has run ,

away with t h e man .

Q Have t hey ever tried t h e m atter in the law ?


.

A The law tolerates i t but they have nev e r ap pealed to


. ,

th e l aw It is just a cu s tom They are p erfectly satis fied b e :


. . ,
l

cause they are well fed and well cared for and an other great .
,

fact is the respe ct of these y oung people for their paren ts ,

which i s the natural Catholic training and has been enhanced ,

by the teachings of the Catholic church .

Q I fancy if this syste m had prev ailed in the Spanish fam


.

ili e s we would have heard much more about it as a cause for


,

the revolution ?
,
A There are t wo reasons why it has not existe d : Because
.
-

th ey did n o t want to work for the S p an i ar d s and the S pan i ards , ,

however bad they may be did not want a unan to work in that ,

way If there has been any case of that kind it has been where
.
,

Spaniards have married F ilipino women and then it was through ,

the women .

Q Does it prevail n o w among the richer Filipino families ?


.

A It is disappearing fast — very little o f it is left now


. .

Q How many people were well to d o in your dio cese


.
- -

A There are a great many wealthy pe ople there . T he i l l


.

and of Panay with its three provinces is n aturally a very rich


country and there are many people who are well to d o as well
,
- -

as on the island of Negros .

O Are they wealthy landowners ?


N Yes sir
I‘
, .

O And that is the way they made their wealth ?


P Yes sir , .

D Do they keep the money at home— do they secrete it ?


P N0 ; they are all spendthrifts The b est part o f the .
. \

island of Negros is almost entirely possesse d by natives— a few


Spaniard s and a f e w other foreigners but lar gely o wned by na ,

ti v e s .Answering the question about their saving their money ,


they do not save it all b ut t h e gre at m ajority with good lands , , ,

are always borrowing money on their crops As a p r o o f of that .


,

I take the case of a Spanish Mestizo family in the island of


Negros The father died and lef t a great deal of money and a
.

fi ne hacie nda and in two or three years they d i d not have any
,

t hing Fortuna t ely ab out the ye ar 1 8 9 6 the grand prize of


.
, .

the l o t t e r y f e ll to o n e of the brothers $ 1 0 0 0 0 0 and in a y ear


. .
,

after he did not have a cent The y go to the banks in one .

town an d another and get all the money they can an d when t h e
, ,

crop is harve sted they owe i t all .

Q What do the y do with their money ?


.

A Above all g ambl ing


.
, .

Q Do the y l ive e x t rav agantly ?


A They spend i t o u j ewelry fin e diamonds they canno -


t
. “

resist— al s o dis orderly living What do you think of a little .

child seven years old carrying a coronet on her head that cost ,

18

Tae Sen a t e Documen t ana Roma n is m
(

$ 9 0 00 ? On ly b y t al kin g in t h is w ay c a n y o u g e t at t h e tr u e .

c ha r a c t e r i s t i cs o f t h e p eo p l e .

Q Y e s an d I t h a n k y o u v e r y m uc h
.
, .

A Tho s e w h o c o m e he r e s p o n t a n eo u s ly a n d u n call e d fo r t o
.

tell y o u a bo u t t h e c o un t r y a r e n o t t o b e belie v e d a s q ui c kly as ,

tho s e w h o a p p e a r whe n c all e d up o n a n d e x p r e s s t r ue id e a s o f ,

t h e c o n d i t io n s F o r i n s ta n ce al l w e c a n wis h fo r i s t h e p e ac e
.
, ,

tr a n qui llity an d t h e g o o d o f t h e co un t r y an d if w e d o n o t t e ll
,
~ -

,.

t h e full t r ut h t o m o r r o w t h e a ut h o r it ie s w o ul d fin d o t h e r wi s e
'
-
.

Q T h e r e ar e n o s e t o f m e n t h a t k n o w t h e co u n tr y be t t e r
.

than t h e p r ie s t s ov e r who m y o u p r e s id e .

A Th a t is t r ue
. .

Q Be c a us e wi th t h e co n fid en t ial a n d t h e cl o s e as s o c ia t io n s
.

b e twe e n t h e p r i e s t s an d t h e p e o p le the y ca le ar n t o kn o w t h em

, n
1

b e tt e r t han an y o t h e r .

A In m a n y c as e s a p r ie s t is o u t livi n g a mo n g them w i t h n o
th e s e p e o p le an d t h e r e is m
.

o n e t o t alk t o e x c e p t ut ual i n t e r
'

,
,

c ha n g e o f c o n fid e n ce s .

Q . H o w i s it as to t h e c h as t i t y o f the Vi s ay a n s ?
Asid e fr o m lim at ic l
"

A . c i n flue nc e s an d n a t ur a d is p o si t io n ,

the c has tity a m o n g t h e w o m e n is co n s i d e r a bl e . I r e fe r n ow to

y e s te r d ay an d n ot t o to d -
ay , fo r t h e n w e h ad not

on ly t h e fo r ce

ho r it y hav e
'

of a ut , b ut the a ut h o r ity of fo r ce , an d to d -
ay we
no t hi n g ; r es p o n d wh at i s g oi n g t o d ay
'

so we ca n n o t as to ,
s ou -
.

Co n c u bin a g e is w h a t w e h a d t o s t r ug gl e a g a in s t m o r e t h an an y

thin g e l s e T h e p a r e n t s d id n o t c ar e T h e p r ie s t s
. . w o ul d fin d
t hem li v i n g op en ly in c o n cu bin a g e an d m ak e t h em get m ar r ie d .

Q .
'
Oi co ur s e , th e r e
d e g r e e s i n u n c h a s t i ty ; t h e r e i s a ar e

p r o mi s c u o us li c e n t i o u s n ess w h e r e a w o m a n w ill y i e ld t o t h e a p
'

p r o ac h e s o f a n y m a n , a n d the n t he r e i s a kin d o f un c h as t i t y th a t

d is r e g ar d s t h e m a r r i ag e v o w s i n n o t i n s i s t i n g o u a c h ur c h c e r _
z

e mo n y b e fo r e a s so c ia t i n g as m a n an d w ife an d y e t w hi c h r e , ,

g ar d s t h a t r e l a ti o n a s o n e w hi c h p r e v e n t s t h e w o m a n a n d t h e
m a n fr o m v i o l at i n g t h e ir p r o mis e t o e a c h o t h e r ; a n d m y im
p r es s io n be e n t h a t o n ly t h e s e c o n d of t h e t w o kin d s o f chas
h as
un c has t i t y a s y o u m a y c all i t p r e va il s i n t h e s e is la n d s
'

t it y , or , .
, ,

a n d tha t t h e a b s e n ce o f t h e fir s t ki n d i s d ue l a r g e ly t o t h e i n flu

e n c e o f t h e Ca t ho li c c h ur c h fo r e ls e w her e y o u fin d p e o p le o f a ,

s i m il a r r ac e a s t hes e y o u d o fin d g e n e r a l li c e n t i o u s n e s s
,
.

A Y o u ha v e s t at e d t h e c as e e x a c t ly as i t is
,
.
T h e n a t u r alfl
.

te n d en c y o f t h e s e w o m e n t h e c lim at ic co n d it i o n s as s is t in g ,

th em is r at h e r to w ar d li c e n t io us n e s s t h an t o li vi n g wi t h o n e
,

W e ha ve e ve n g o t t h e m t o m ar r y whe n t h e y w e r e liv in g

m an
'

in co n c u b i n a g e , an d we we r e b e t t e r in g t h em a ll the t im e . In
l ter ms, be st a ed t t
t ha t he m ar r ie d w o m e n

ge n er a it c an ar e

cha s t e Thi s livi n g t o g e t h e r


.
wi th o u t th e ce r e m o n y of t he
ch ur c h is d u e t o s e v er al caus e s —
to o b e c t io n
j on t h e p ar t of t he

p ar en ts , i n s t an ce — p r e v i o usly t h e p r ies t
fo r was t h e fat he r of

p e o p l e a n d t h e a ut ho r i t i e s as s is te d t e p
h r i es t, b u t n ow , w it h
the ,

t he s e p ar a t io n o f c h ur c h an d s t a t e , we will ha y e t o a tt ai n t he

s am e e nd s b y d iffe r e n t m e a n s .

A r e t h e Vi s a y a n m e n o f a j e a lo us na tur e ?
N o t as a r u le .

H e is not li k e t h e I lo c a n o ?
No .
I h a ve h ad t wo ca se s in m y jur is d i c t io n s — on e
of

79
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t ’

an a

Roman ia n
a m an w h o h is wi fe fo r un fai t hf ul ness , a n d a no the r o f a
kill e d .

m a n wh o w as o ut fis h in g an d w as s u n s tr u ck , a n d we n t ho me
an d kille d h is wife an d a n o th e r ma n e v ide n t ly wi t h o ut caus e , .

Q Wha t co ur s e w as p ur s ue d wi t h r e fe r e n ce t o the o c c up a n cy
.

o f o n e p ar i s h b y o n e p a r i s h p r i es t o r w e r e t h e y r o t a te d i n o ffice ? ,

A Th er e ha ve b e e n c a s e s w he re p r i e s ts hav e r e main ed in
.

o n e p ar is h all the ir l ive s b u t t h at d e p e n de d o n what w as d o ne ,

by t he c hap te r
h h m e t e v e r y fo ur y e ar s , w ic .

Q A n d t hi s c hap te r w a s m ad e u p o f p r ie s ts o f t h e d i o ce se ?
.

A O f t h e p r es id in g m e m be r s o f t h e r e li gi o us bo d ie s
. They .

wo ul d mo v e the m a t the ir will b ut the r e ha ve be e n c a s e s w her e ,

th ey have r em ai n e d in o n e p a r i s h d ur in g their live s Tho s e .

wh o w e r e o n ly o c c up y i n g t e m p o r ar y p o s t s we r e r e mo v ed at t h e
will o f t h e bi s ho p A c co r d i n g t o c an o n i c al l aw t he r e w e r e

.
,

s o m e wh o co uld n o t b e r e m o v e d e x c e p t fo r c au s e an d t hen the y ,

w o ul d b e r e m o ve d b y t h e c h a p te r I n o the r we r e .

char g es w hi c h w e r e fo r lif e o r d ur in g g o o d be havi o ur T h at .

a p p l ie d t o t h e s e c ular p r ies ts to t h e n a tives a n d t o t h e Sp an ,

iar d s Th e r e is o n e m a n in Ja r o w h o is a n at iv e p r i es t an d
.
.

wh o h as b e e n fo r t y y e a r s in o n e p ue blo .

Q H o w d id y o u d e t e r mi n e t h e s e le c tio n o f n a tiv e p r i es ts
.
,

a n d ho w m an y o r d i n ar ily w e r e the r e i n a p a r i s h w ith t h e S p an

i s h p r i es t s ?
A A
. The r e ar e n ow 66 n a t iv e p r ie s s t s e r vin g p a r ishes in my
jur i s d ic t io n The r e w e r e 7 0 b ut 4.
, ha v e d i e d r e c e n t ly . T he
bis h o p him self wo uld e x a m in e t h e s e n a ti v es i n vie w of the ex

a m in a t io n h e h ad p as s e d in the s em n ar i y , an d the n them a ss i g n


to t he d iff e r en t p a r is he s Or d in a r il y t h e
. c o ur s e w as w i t h thes e
n a t iv e pr ie s t s fo r t h e bis h o p t o e x a mi n e t he m a n d the n ha bili
t at e t he m fo r on e y e ar , an d at t he en d of one y e ar , r e ex amin e

the m ,
an d a s s ig n th em to s o me l
p ac e .

Q Wh a t d o y ou t h in k of the n a t iv es in te lle c tu all y ; ar e the y


br i g h t in le a i
r n n g an le d g e ? d m r e t a in i n g kn o w
A I w o uld h ar d l y lik e t o a n s w e r t h a t q ue s t i o n c a te g o r i ca lly
.

fo r t he r e ar e s o m e fe w o f t h e s e n a t i e s t h a t s t a n d o ut a m o n g v

t h e ir b r et h r e n T he r e a e s o m e n a t i v e s t h a t a r e v e r y br ig ht
. r

me n I d o n o t w an t t o c as t a n y r e fle c t io n o n the m be c au s e o f
.

t h o s e w h o h av e r e m ar k a b le a p t it u d e .

Q Ar e t h e c h ild e n q ui c k t o l e a r n ?
. r

A Y e s s ir ; t he y ar e q ui c k t o le ar n g e n e r all y s p e a k in g
.
,
, .

The y h a e an e x t r o d in ar y c a p a cit y fo r l e a n i g
v a r
fo r e ig n lan r n a e

g ua g e Sp an is h a t fi s t an d n o w E n g li s h

r , .

Q W h a t s up er vi s io h as t h e bis h o p o v e r t h e d io c e s e i n e ach
. n

p ar is h ? D id y o u v is i t e a h p a r is h e a h y e a r ? c c

A W e m a ke v i s it t o e a c h I h av e n o t be e n a ble
p ar is h a
.
.

to b e c a u s e I w as e le va t e d a b o u t t h e t i m e thi s t o bl
u e ar ose
,
r .

B y e as o r of t h e b l k a d e I w as k e p t i n I lo il o
n oc
Vis i t s ar e m a d e .

t h r e e y e a s b e c a u s e i t i s im o s s i b l e
t o v is it t he m
o n ce i v er y n e r
p
A s y o u c a n t r av e l o n l
y a b o ut s ix m o n ths i n t h e
a ll e v e r y y e ar .

y e ar on a c c o un t of the r ai n y it t a ke s
s e as o n , a b o ut thr ee y e ar s
t o go ar o u n d . T h e b i s h o p h as a l ar g e fo l l o wi n g , an d as h e has
t o p e r fo r m ce r e m o n ie s at e ac h t o wn , and vi si t t h e
as h e h as t o
i t t ak e s
t own s so as to a r r iv e wh en t h e p e o p le ar e i n t h e t o wn s ,
a b o ut
in ol d e n
t wo y e ar s T he ar r iv a l of b is h o p in
a a to wn
.

80
Tfie S en a t e lr D ocuM en t
'

Roma mr m
' '

an d

times meant one o r two feast d ays an d in times of harvest ,

it would dis turb the peo pl e U s u ally they travelle d bet ween .
-

Nove mber and May .

Q Within your knowledge have any charges been made t o


.
,

the bishop of immorality amon g the parish priests ?


A So far as I know there have been no accusations made
.

there For a long nu mber of years I was the vicar genera!


,

. -

down there having cha r ge under the bishop o f the diffe rent
'

parishes and I hav e not heard an y case of an accusation of t h at


, ,

kind All the t ime I served as v i c ar g e n e r al the bishop sent


,

o
.
,

me only three paper s making accusations of that character


against the priests and they were all anonymous and I paid no
, ,

attention t o th em Whenever a p arish priest wanted to get


.

some disturbing spirits in a to wn before him and they did not .

care t o come out of ven g eance they would send a paper to the
bishop ac cus mg him of all kinds of immorality There is a .

great inclination in this country toward anonymous communi


cations .

Q Then no priests in the diocese have been disciplined


.

for immorality so far as you know ?


A I kno w of none o f my o wn kn o wled ge but among such
, ,

a large nu mber there must have been some disciplined but I


.
,

have been b i shop only a short ti me and have never ta ken charge
(i f the see You must bear in min d it would be very strange if
.

some priests should n o t fall To send a young man o ut to .

what might be termed a desert the only white man in the neigh ,

b o r h o o d sur rounded by elements of l i c e n t i o us n e s s wi t h no


, , \

bod y but the Almighty to look t o with the climatic conditions ,

urging him t o follow the same pract ices as surround him it is ,

a miracle if he does not fall For instance you take a young .


,

man here in the sem i nary who is reading his breviary all the , ,

time in t h e cloister under discipline all the time seeing nobody


, , ,

and suddenly tran splant h i m to a place where he is monarch of


all he surveys he sees the women half clothed and as he is con
, ,

suited on all questions even o f morality an d immorality, his ,


'

eye s are op ened and if he is not strong he will fall When a


,
.

curate is a hail fellow well met and mixes in with the people , ,

there is never a word s aid b ut let him try to stay apart and lead ,

them to a better life to elevate their t houghts in bringing them


,

closer to religious views and whether he is j ust as pure as any ,

thing c an possibly be they will accuse him of immorality The


,
.

very fact that if he is free and easy with them and he knows if ,

he is so he can do anything if he is prone to fall that is e u , ,

o t her reason t hat would lead h i m astray .

Q In other word s as was suggested by the r e ve r e n d p r o


. ,

v in c ial o f the R e c o lo t o s immorality i nstead o f makin g the , ,

people hostile to him rathe makes him popular with them ? ,


.

A The only time when they o b j e ct to the priest is when he


tries to m
.

ake them perfor m their du ty All those who d o not like .

strict living are of course agains t him when he himself is rigi d .

Q To what d o y o u attrib ute such hostility as exists against


.

the friars in these i slands ?


A Antagonism o r hostility o n the part of the mass of the “

people does n o t exist There is hostility against them on the


.

part o f these few h alf e d uc at e d men wh o have b e e n consp ira


o

81
T/z e Sen a t e Documen t d Roma ms
'

an

against t h e Spa n ish go vernment to the ex te nt ev n


s p ir at o r s
e

b e in g sent away from the i s l an d s The real reaso n is i . ,

what you may the supporter of the Spanish s o ve ign ty h


,

was the priests and that is the reason that these pe ople a
,

not the mas se s were against them So much is that so t i .

Ge neral Rios who was here in 1 89 8 sai d send your priel


, ,

back into the paris hes for each priest in the parish is w0 1
half a battalion to me and I have nothin g but the priests t o r q
.


upon .

Q Do you know
. of any instance where t h e priests were i
i nitiative cause of the deportat ion of a man fro m the paris h
A No sir ; I do not They were always called upon to 1
. . .

port when charges were made by the civil branch This 11! .

t h e case not only with the Spanish p arish p r iests but also w i ,

the Fil ipino priest s Of course the Filipin o priests in t h e


cases were looked at more closely I do n o t know o f a on
.
,

where the initiative ste p was token by the priest but I do k m ,

of hundreds of cases where the priests stepped in to preve


deportation When I answer this question you must bear
mind that I refer to the islands in general for so far as t
.

Visayas are concerned there have been no deportation s win .

ever Everything was more peaceful and quiet


. .

Q What do you think of the moral ity of the native priest


.

A My duty is to de fend them and to chastise them wh


found guilty but I s ay it is bad Being Indians they can t a
.

.
, ,

their habits o fl a n d g e t i n with the other Indians unknow


W hereas a Sp aniard with a white face would be recognized


n o t one of them T h e Spaniard does n o t have the chance i
.

ev il doing as the native priest There are very few it is t r ! .


,

b ut still the re are some native priests down there n o w a


, ,

the y ar e moving heaven and earth to keep me from going b a


to my dio ce s e for they are having a great time in their p at h
,

and they are ar ousing the newspapers to say that everythin g


well and trying in every w ay to prevent my coming I as
, .

o n e o f these men down to look matters up but he is an Indi a ,

and h e himself has now j o ined with them and wr iting me lette :
-

General Hughes know s this man When I go down there I u


let you know a little more As I get t h e prote ction of t
.

American ar ms I am going to let them know what is goi ng 0 1


,

Q DJ) y o u think the priests under you c an return to tl


.
.

parishes ( supp o sin g the insurrecti on is suppresse d ) ? Wo u


they be well received by the people ?
A I think they can all return when the insurrection is at
.

end but wh e n is the insurrection going t o end ? We r e ce i


,

daily letters from the provinces asking us to come back b ,

there are always two three or four of this disturbi ng e le mt, ,

i n these tow n s trying to get the men up agai nst us There is .

security for an y f oreigner in an y part of t h e A rchipelago I .

do n o t care to go back until things are settled The day ti


the American g overnme n t shall e s tablish a g o v er n me nt throng


o ut the Archipelago which shall insure securi y to life
t th e ,

will be no trouble at all for t h e priests to return b e c aus e i ,

people there are ev e n now comparing thei r peaceful order ,

qui et life to what they have been compelled to go through 1


l ast four years T ere is a reason why the insurrectionists
h .

s o
Tfie Sen a t e D ocum en t , an d Rama mkm
a gainst the priests whether he belon gs to an order or not ;
,

that is because he upholds the constituted authority ; they


,

preach that — the m aintenance of law and order and these i n —

s ur r e c t o s know that if they return and keep their power and

advocate the maintenance of law an d order they will win the


people to the support of the American government They do .

n o t want that so they are trying to keep the m away


, My o wn .

pre sent representative in the Visayas as the ecclesiastical gov ,

er n or, is an uncle of Silas ( i ) who was the most cruel of all


the insurgents down there and I feel sure that this gentleman
.

o f the cloth is down there dissem i nating revolutionary ideas .

It w ill be a little premature t o send the priests back to all their


curacies now ; but for instance to the island of Romblon they
, ,

could return to morrow There is an American garrison there


-
.

an d the people are quiet and orderly In the three towns on the .

islan d o f Tablas they could go to only o n e I do not think .

they could go to the island of Negros especially the western part , ,

where the government is n o w The ones who are now in the .

gove r nment there are bitterly opposed to the friars Carrying .

o ut the argument why they can not return to western Ne g r o s I -

have lived there for twenty two years and thought nothing was -

g oing to happen there but the very men who were first to go
.

into the insurgent r anks were those we thought beyond r e


proach and the first thing they did w as to go into the churches
, _

and ste al everything ; and the very man who is now presidente
in that town never had a plate to e at out o f o r a cup to d rink ,

out o f He has taken the plate si lver service of the convento


and if I were to retur n I would say he was a thief ; and so they
. ,

want us to be kept away so that we can not recognize our


property and throw in their faces that they are thieves I can
,

prove by records tha t they have stolen at least belong


ing to the different parishes besides all of the plate belonging ,

to the different conventos and churches .

Q O n the subject o f schools we are dire c ted to set up a


. .
,

system of pub lic i nstruction ; and that is o n e of our mos t deli


c at e mis s i o n s because it is a Catholic country and it is likely
'

, ,

t o always remain so un les s as has been suggested to me by


, ,

A rchbishop Chappelle the influence of the native priests may be


,

to ward idolatry and fetichism Now we are very an xious to . ,

establ i sh amicable relations in regard to this school sy stem with


the church and yet we ar e restrained from doing certain things
,

that they would like to have us do by reason of the character of


o ur government and we want if possible to reconcile the


, , ,

d esire s of the church with the public school syste m which we


ar e here to esta blish Now in the United S tates there has been
.
,

a system which has work e d in some places by which al l the ,

different churches were gi ven opportunity at the time the sch ool
was assembled t o have a teacher o r a priest to instruct the
,

schol ars one half hour before they entered upon the regular
-

curriculum o f the school or one half hour after wards and it


,
-

h as been suggeste d that some such system as that might work


harmoniously h ere I would be obliged to you if you would
.

th ink that over and understand the spirit in which we come here
an d see if it is not possible to reconcile the school syst m on
e the
83
d Roma mm
'

T/ze S en a fe Documen t an

one hand t o t h e vie ws o f t h e church on the other hand to t h


restriction s t ha t we are obliged to operate on .

A Under the Spanish system the S panish priest had n


.

s alary whatever He was an inspector of schools He woul


.
.

g o to see if the methods pursued were proper ones but ther ,

was no salary attached .

Q While of course we c an not make invidi ous distinction


.
, ,

with respect to teachers coming o ut here we h ope t o h av ,

certainly a fair proportion of Catholics among them We ax .

not a Cathol ic country that is a m aj ority are not Catholic!


Nevertheless we do justice to every sect and we e xp ect h er


,

,
,

that a fair proportion of t h e teachers will be Catholics .

A It is one thing to demand a thing to be done and a1


.

other to say that there is no objection to it s being done The) .

might be no set rule with respect to that at all and let the b i s h c '
,

and the par ish priest continue as they are now f o r there wo ul ,

be no objection on t h e part o f t he parents of the children .

Q I know that these matters are usually arranged with t i


.

bishop ; that they are l argely in his control and I am vel .

anxious to have the bishop understand that we are not here f!


the purpose of proselyting an d what we want to do is to ada] ,

the schools we contemplate introducing as nearly as we can 1


conditions here .

A Muc h woul d be gained by leaving out of the school is


.

any reference to religion whatev e r because if it is stated the] ,

that there must be no relig ious subject treated i n t h e scho o .

that would make it possible for anyone in the town to b r ir


the danger before the people and make some trouble but ,

would b e much better to omit ent irely in t h e school law an


reference to religion That is a question th at wi ll have to ]
.

handled with gloves Here it has been the custo m to tear


.

re ading writing the ca tec hism and the little arithmetic an d


, , , ,

the American authorities say that there will be no r e lig i (


taught in the schools it will be a fatal mistake for they will 8 : ,

the y even wipe out o ur religion the religion of o ur f o r e f ai h ér ,

Q We hope to avoid an y bad mistake of that kind but y <


.
.

must understand that there are r es trictions o n the other S i t


that I have referred t o that there is a large constituency in t i
United States which is not Catholic and has a right to insi ,

that public school teaching paid for out of the public funds 1
non sectarian and we have to pursue a middle and j ust cour s
- —

which I think we can possibly arrive at by making c o n ce s s io


o n both sides and still not o ii e n d either view

A That is the very thing I s ay ; not to req uire by l a w t h


.

doctrine sh all be left out but to keep silent o n it entirely


, .

Q My opinion is th at sensible me n when they get t og e th


.

can accomplish a good deal and I shall be glad when the mat t ,

comes up more acutely to have further conference with you ai


your colleague s on the subject .

A I am at your disposition at a n time


y
.
.

Q H o w mar r y of the prie sts of your d iocese were assault


.

or in prison durin g the revolution ?


A Three in Iloilo and thir t y seven in Negros Most
. -
.

those in Iloilo were able to get out of the way bef or e they w e
caught A S we have s uch g r e a c on fld e uce in the inhabitants
t
.

d
Tae Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zr m
'

an

Q That was the c as e wi h Ben g uet t

A Yes ai r The re were th r e e missions in Benguet and as


.

. .

th ey be came infl uenced by the Chris t ian religion t hey we r e


, .

b r ought int o settlements .

Q And you will let me keep this book to which you are r e
.

ferri ng
A Yes sir In l 8 9 6 t h e diocese o f Nueva S egovia h ad
.
, .

Christian s subject t o my e ccle siasti cal control Ther e .

were at that t ime 1 72 3 83 pagans .

Q In Benguet and up in the mountain s


.

A Within all the dist rict wit hi n my jurisd ict ion Two .

t hous and four hundre d and ninet y nine were in B enguet


.

Ver y -
.

few there had b e en reduced t o Chris tian influen c e .

Q The gove r nment of Spain h ad paid a stipend t o its


priests
A Yes sir The bishop s paris h priests , and mis sionaries
. .

Q And th e salaries o f t h e parish priests I have heard


.
. , .

.
, ,

v ar ie d from $5 00 t o $ 1 2 00

A Yes sir ; the m aj ority between $50 0 and 3 800 according


.
,

t o th e clas s of the to wn .

Q What rule if any was followed with respect t o assig n


, ,

ing native priests t o parishes How did you distr ibute them
D id you furnish one or t wo to each parish priest ?
A Aside from the seven who were parish priests the other
.
,

hundred natives were distributed among the other parishes as


coadjuto rs or as sistors t o the Span ish pri ests und er th e bishops ,

who could move them around as they pl e ased .

Q W as there general rotation among the parish priests or


.
,

did a man stay until he was superannuated i n th e plac e t o wh ich


he was first as signed
A There were two classes o f parish pries ts those d esig
.
,

n ate d in a temporary capacit


y t o serve as p arish priests and
those who were perm anent priests The latter co uld not be t e .
'

moved except afte r so me accusation after trial and found


g uilty .

Q How did the nu mber of pe rmanent parish priests com


.

pare with the number of temporary parish priests


A As a matte r of fact there never was any person who
.

occupied a permanent posit ion for every four years there was ,

held a chapter when they electe d a new provincial and other


,

officials of the order and at that time it was de t ermined how


,

the priests should be distributed around Now with the A ngus .


,
tin i an s th ey might be called permanent priest s b ut with respect
,

to the Dominicans th ey occupied temporary charges more than


otherwise .

Q How were the church es and conve n tos built ?


.

A The churches where e ither r azed t o the g round by any


.
.

ty phoon or earthq uake or in the case of new parishe s the ,

churches and the c o nventos were buil t by order of t h e bishop .

A ctin g as the patron the government w as under obligation to


,

pay a certa in amount— usually about MOO for n e w missions ; —

but very often the gov ernment failed to pay over the money .

but they furnished it in labor Th e y would take men who had .

not worked out their road tax ; they would take two o ut of eac h
di st rict and in this diocese there were 40 districts which would
,
.

so
T/ze Se n a t e Docum en t ’
Roma n zs m
'

.
an a
m ake 8 0 men to work on conven t os and chur c hes which w as
, ,

considered public work The parish priests would provide the .

subsistence of these n ien while working there Very ofte n the .

funds were supplied by the parishion ers themselves and very ,

ofte n the parishioners would go and d o day labor on t h e build


in g . In some parishes there were sometimes many thousands
of dollars collected for the church fund and where churche s
'

were demolished by earthquak es or typhoons in other dis tricts .

the bishop who had charge of these church funds would order
,
,

them to another parish to restore demolished proper ty .

Q On what land were the churches and conventos built ?


.

A Either the government o r the mun icipal authorities in


.
.

case o f the foundation of new parishes would convey t o the ,

church the ground upon which the church and convento were
built and sometimes the ground was bought but very rarely
, , .

In the large majority of cases the government o r the tow n i t


self donated the land .

Q It was usually o n the public square ?


.

A Alongside the pl aza and if it was the provincial seat it


.
, ,

was on o n e side of the plaza o pposite the governme nt h o us e .

Q In whose name was that land ord inarily t ak en ? W as


.

there a deed or was it one of those cases where a deed was n o t


, .

considered necessary .

A Up t o a very few years ago there w as n o such thing an


.

the recording o f title deeds and conse quently no deeds were ,

given Most was held by right o f prescript ion for there bein g
.
,

n o record er s office it was passed from o n e t o a nother b y word


'

,

o f mouth .

Q Now in the United Stat es ( for I d o not know how it is


.

in other countries ) the title of the churc h is usually i n the name


,

o f the bishop o r the archbishop Is t h a t followed in these .

islands ?
A That is the custom here also
. .

Q A nd the bishop when he dies mak e s a will in which he


.
, ,

conveys his property to his successor ?


A The same h e re Accordin g to canonical law the bishop
. .

is the representative o f the chur ch


Q We want to do justice here an d we want to have the


.
,

property to go to the person to whom i t belongs even though ,


the records m ay not be straight Now don t you think it . ,


would be in accordance with canonical law a n d in accord ance ,

with the equity and justice of the case , should the title o f the
churches and conventos now in the government o f the United
State s by transmission from the government o f Spain be trans ,

ferre d by the author i zed representative o f the United States t o


the bishop of the diocese for the use of the Catholic inhabitants
o f the parish ? I assume there are m any places where there is
n o t it l e and there are probably cases where the churches and
,

c onve ntos were built o n public l ands .

A The cases are very few where there is any doubt as t o


.

t h e ownership of the property and I believe the i d ea sug gested ,


.

is a ver y good o n e In the maj o rity of case s t h e title resides in


.
'

the church and can be proven by the very people in the parishes
, ,

because they can show they have had it from time immemorial .

That plan would be very well thought of also b y all of the pa


i s h i on e r s because th ey are all at h o li c s
g
v .
,

Roma n zr m
'

The Sen a t e D ocumen t an a

Q .
And the bette r Catholics they are the bet t er citiz ens they

will make ?
A Yes sir ; because the te achings o f the church are t o ai
. ,

w ays respect the constituted authority .

Q.
But we hear from p arishioners in various part s of the
island s that they built the churches and therefo r e they should .

be held for their u se Now if it is given to the bishop for their


.

use that satisfies the laws of the church on one side and the
,

statement of the use satis fies their views o n the other ?


A It is a very good idea When these In d ian a or parish
.
.

loners worked upon these church buil d ings they gratuitously ,

o fie r e d to do it for the church ; consequently they divested


themselves of any title .

Q .But they knew it was for their use ?


A Yes sir ; and it will never be taken away from them .

Suppose I should die or go to Spain the chur ches wi ll remain


.
,

here for their use .

Q How much agricultural land how many haciendas were


. , ,

owned by the orders in your diocese ?


A There is but one hacienda which is own ed by the orders
. ,

an d that by the Augustinians in the provi nce o f La Isabela in ,

the valley of the Cagayan In the year 1 878 when Mo r en i as . ,

was governor general here he desired of his o wn motion to e n


-

courage the planting and raising of tobacco and gave to each ,

of the d ifier e n t re ligious orders in the islands a hacienda He .

even wanted to do that with the Franciscans but they said they ,

could not accept it but the governor said you must I do not
,
.

k n ow what became of that A fterwards Primo de Riviera came .

here and he wante d it all back an d they all gave it back except ,

the Aug ustin ians who declin ed to give it up saying it was


. ,

given voluntaril y ; and they never have given it up It is about .

2 8 miles in length and 1 4 mi les in width Very good land but .


,

very few inhabitants not more than 2 0 0 , .

Q Has the order spent a good deal o f money on it ?


.

A It has spent some but not much as there are very few
.
, ,

people there As there are a great many inhabitants in Ilocos


.
.

they spe nt several thousand dollars in taking familie s from Ilo


cos down to this land This is all valley land and among the
.

best in the islands At the point where t his hacienda is located


.

there are 30 leagues of level plain country Those three prov .

in ce s known as the Valley of the Cagayan although the richest ,

and fin est in Luzon only contain about , inhabitants and ,

they can easily support The great river Cagayan is


navigable up to the lo wer p art of the province of Isabela .

Q The tobacco company owns la r gely up there ?


.

A They only own two towns up here— the hacienda of San


.

A n t o n i o an d of Santa Isabela
'

Q Is there a good deal of public land up there ?


.

A Yes sir ; a great deal o f uncultivated and public lands


.
, .

Anybody who wanted to secure land up there had to buy it from


the state They would sell it very cheaply ; they would give
.

thous ands of hectares for hal f a dollar They wante d to e n .

courage the entry o f the land by Ilocanos .

Q Th e Ilocanos ar e a better race than the Tagalogs ?


.

88
Tbe Sen a t e Docum e n t d Roma n zs m

an

A Yes sir ; and much more saving more e conomical


, . ,

more industrious .

Q They don t stop working w hen they have earned a little


.

,

as the Tagalog does ?


A The y are all tarred with the s ame tar in that respe ct ;
.

they don t work t o o much but they wo r k m o re th an t h e Taga



,

logs They won t die workin g


.

.

Q Are they more honest than the T ag alog s] ?


.

A Yes sir generally In C ag ayan a n d 1 10 0 0 3 they are


.
, , .

very submissive Unfortunately the Tagalogs h ave a little .


,

g atherin g of philosophers he r e who are dis s em i n a t ing these


ideas among the people which has caused eve rythi n g to be lost , .

Q We have a saying in A merica that A little k n owledge


.

is a dangerous thing ? "

A We were for sixteen months prisoners of the Tagalogs


.

in Cagayan .

Q And you were subjec te d to many great indignities ?


.

A Yes sir ; many A man wh o graduate d i n medicine in


Because I declined to o r
.
, .

1 89 8 from the university was o n e .

dain certain natives because unde r the c an onical law they were ,

not ripe for ordination he kicked me and broke a c ane over my , ,

left arm kept that up for three hours because I wou ld not o r
, ,

dain the priests This man k n ow n as Villa w as military g o v


.
, .

c ruor of Isabela When he assaulted me he was nothing He


. .

came there without any authority an d asked me why I d id not


ordain these native priests I replied that I was prohibite d by
,

the canonical law as they did not come up to the req ui rements, ,

and he said You will ordai n them to morrow because I say


“ -

I replied that I would not even if he killed me a n d becau s e


, ,

so . ,

I did not do it o n the following day he assaulted me very s e


,

v e r e ly .

Q Do you suppose that th at was encouraged by the i n s ur


.

gent general o r colonel who was in charge ?


A The colonel who was in command of the entire valley
.

was present at the time an d said nothing .

Q Who was the colonel ?


.

A D aniel Tirona
. He kicked me in the stomach several .

times but I pr o t e c t e d myself with my arm and it took two


, .

months to recover The day following this he took a steamer .

and came down this way and that is the last I have heard from ,

him That was j ust the eve of the outbreak of hostilities i n


.

Manila Feb 3 1 89 9
Q From what you have stated I assume t h at there was no
. .
, ,

. ,

such general own ership by the religious orders in your diocese


of lands and agricultural propertie s as to attrac t the hostility
o f the parishioners o n the ground that the priests occupied the
relation o f landlord t o the people ?
A No . .

Q These estates you have referred to are so far removed


.

and in an uni nhabited country that they would not have any
effect generally on the people .

A All we had there were 2 0 0 me n one priest and a lay


. ,

brother o n the entire hacienda There was no parish


,
. .

Q And that was the only place in the entire diocese wher e
.

th ere was property ?


89
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t an d R oma n zr m
'

A The only one The re ar e in some cases small par c els of


. .

i and which have been donated to the church for saying one mass
a year for the repose of d e p arted souls The proce eds of til l .
.

i n g the ground and cultivating would only be at the most about


$1 0 0 a year .

Q I s there improved property in the city of Viganu in


.
,

A parri and in San Fernando del Union or in Lo ag that is sed


, , ,

for rental purp oses by any of the orders ?


A We o wn nothing except church property which is now
. ,

occupied by the A merican troops The Dominicans have two .

colle ges one in Dagupan for seco ndary instr u ction of male s
,
,

and one i n Lingayen which is a girls school The sis te rs u se d


,

.

to go there t o teach the girls At T o g ag ar a there is a large .

girls sc hool n o w occupied by A merican tr oops The teac hing



.

in this s chool was conducte d by the Dominican sisters here


from Manil a The bishop bui lt a very good school for gir l s in
.

Vigan now occupied b y American troops and the Epis copal


, ,

palace and the sem inary also is occupied by A merican troops .

If you desire it I have here t h e answers to all the q uestions .

It is badly writte n but I shall be glad to pre se nt it to you


,

.
.

Q Now as to the question of what par t the priests played


'

in the deportation of citizen s of the islands who were sent out


by order of the captai n gene ral ? -

A The guardia civil which was a body known during the


.
,

Spanish rule would o f te n r e p o r t to the civil gover nor that cer


,

t ain persons we re a disturbing element in the neighbor hood .

The civil govern or would then report to the governor general -


,

who would ask for a report and the antecedents of t h e party ,

so accused of the parish priests and in view of the report of


, ,

th e civil governor and the parish priest the gover nor genera l -

would act but no one was ever expelled upon the exclusive re
,

port o f the parish priest Ve ry oft en the parish priest woul d .

intercede in behalf of some person accused by the guard ia civil


upon groundless charges and would succ eed by appeal ing to the ,

governor general in preventing him from being deporte d and


-

the archbishop here in Manila who was ri g ht on the ground . .

succe eded in preventing a great many men from being unjustly


expelled .

Q Is it a f act that the priests never ini t iate d such action ?


.

A I believe so I k n ow of no si ngle case where parish


. .

priests did initiate such charges I have never been advised of .

one and if there has been a case it is rare


, .

Q You have mentioned the guardia civil


. Will you be .

good enough to te ll me what that was ?


A T h e guardia civil was a b ody at once civi l and m il itary
.
.

They had militar y uniforms e quipment and arms but they , . ,

were under the civil governor I n the entire island of Luzon .

they had no army The army w as i n M indan ao These me n


.
.

performed police duty as well as g arrison duty


Q They were a provincial constabulary ?
.

A Yes sir ; the men in the regular army who had th e best
.
,

record we r e taken t o form this guardia civil .

Q Were they all natives ?


.

A N0 ; all the non co mmissioned o mce r s wer e Spaniards


.
,
an d the others al l natives .

90
Tae Sen a t e Docum en t Romanzs m
’ '

ana

Q . D id n ot it 6 6613? th at th ey f requen tly abuse d their .

power ?
A Yes air ; the n atives are always pr on e to abuse t heir
.
_ ,

authority If s ome o n e here is not above them they will abuse


.
.

th eir au thority all the time .

Q They sque ez e ?
.

A Yes sir ; they are terrible to th eir bwn people— very


.
,

t y ran ts Th e pres idente s of towns who ar e n at lve s themselves


.

h eld their subordinates in terror They govern by fear here . .

Q They were paid nothin g and were ex pected to get i t out


.
'

o f t h e people ?
A Ye s sir ; t h at i s true The presidente s were not paid
.
, .

any sal ary ; it was an honorary position but they made t heir
,
, -

money o ut of the pe ople The natives are great abusers of au .

th or i t y al ways .

Q I t se ems t o me that the appointment o f an officer who


.

h as a good deal to d o wi t hout providin g a salary is an intima


t ion t hat he is e x pecte d to make his money that way
,

A That is tru e When they do speak sincerely t o the


. .

pries t an d let th em selves o ut th ey admit that they cannot gov


er n th ems e lves Very of ten when we were i n prison they “


would say We cannot govern ourselves
. They prefer to .

dominate the others by for ce an d t hey have no compassion . .

Q H ays they not b een g uilty of extreme cruelty to their


.

o wn people durin g the war ?


A Terribly so It can hardly be explained h o w they could
. .

go t o such extremes and for that reason they have g o t t h e mass


,

o f the people unable to move ; they are afraid I hav e been a . .

curate and speak the Tagalog language an d they used to tell me ,



We have no respect for a man a t all ; we would j ust as soon

k ill a man as a chicken Prior t o 1 8 9 6 homicide s were very
,

rare Those were all for j ealousy for some man tak ing their
.
-

women away from them and the small cri minal record they h ad ,

was admirable .

Q Are t he y a j eal ous race ?


.

A Yes s ir ; the Iloca nos are th e worst They bec ome ab


. ,
.

so lut e ly i ns an e and they are never satis fie d until they k ill th e


,

par t y Even the Ig o r r o tt e s have the death penalty for women


. ,

who are unfaithf ul .

Q Now about th e Igor r o tt e s th ey are a q uiet people ar e


. , ,

th ey not ?
A Som e o f those who had be en Ch ri sti aniz e d h ad a very
.
-

re spectful be aring toward t h e priests and t h e fe w Spaniards


who mi xed among them ; but the I g o r r o t t e s in the mountains
ar e a wild and savage peopl e and they will cut any b od y s head

!
.

o fi t hey fin d I t is a great glory and honor to cut anybody s



.

head off I d o not thi nk that of these savage head hunters


.

t here are over a hundred thou s and in Be nguet The only trib .

ut e t he y p aid was two r e ai e s a recognition o f vass alage in , .

B eng uet Lepanto Bontoc an d Abra Some of the m d i d really


. , ,
.

pay 50 cents— those who had become Chr istians but that only ,

s ince 1 89 8 .

s of immoral i ty among the prie


Q Were
.
there case sts of
y our diocese ?
A I have been there ten years as a bisho p There hav e

.
.

91
T/ze Sen a t e D ocumen t an d Roma n istn
o nly been two cases brought to my att ention and I reporte d ,

them for correcti n o They were b o th A


.
ug us t i n ians There .

was als o one case of a D o minican and he was chastised al so , . .

Whenever a case was brought t o t h e notice o f the bishop and ,

it was e s tablished this chasti se ment was administered ; but


,

very often cases were brought out of revenge on the part of the
Indians which were n ot enti tled t o cre dence because they were ,

alway s accompanied by calumnies .

Q Would
.
it have been possible for such things to have cc ~

curred without being brought to y our atte ntion or being dis ,

covere d by the provincial ?


A Some may h ave I do not know
.
As soon as there was
,
.

any rumor of a case it was always i nvestig ated E ve r y y ear .

the bishop not on ly paid a visit to all the parishes but also to
'

all the orders as well as t o the provincial of the order .

Q Did each order have a house in e ac h diocese


.

A They have at parishes only The head hou ses are all .

Q Do you know pretty w e ll now the character of the


.

native priests who have taken the place of the parish priests 7
A I know nearly all of them pe rsonally and I have oft en
. ,

vis ited the different places .

Q I s the standard o f education and character lower with


.

them th an wit h the par ish priests 7


A Very much lower ; no comparison
. They are educated .

in the seminaries They learn quickly but they forget quickly


. , ,

and they have not much cap acity They are from twelve t o .

four teen years in the seminary learning an d they have to pass a


good examination before being se nt out but they are not out ,

l ong before they forget it .

Q Are they gi ven to i mmoral practices


.

A They are very weak very frail T h e immen s e majority


. , .

o f the men in the regular orders ar e pure and good It is just .

the opposite with these ; the immense majority are frail and
weak Even in the case o f white Span iards who might have
. ,

had a weakness with respect to wo men still he had a good h ead ,

and never allowed t h e matter to create a scandal It was never .

kno wn of men but these people did not care


Q D o you th ink that a weakness of that sort on the part
, .

eit her of a Spanish priest or of a native priest would render


him particularly unpopul ar in the region i n which he lived
A Not at all In the immense majority of cases of that
. .

kind th e people have not made any compla int I had t o go and
I did not i nvestigate them ju
.

fin d out about these th ings .

d i c ially but had t o go about it in an irregular way t o fin d o u


.

, t .

the truth There never has been a for mal accusation of l n


.

morality made in my diocese When they wanted to wreak .

revenge on a priest they bring this out an d a thousand other “

charges of all kin d s of hein ous immorality When formal


char ges have been m ade by several residen t s of a com m


.

unity ,

and they have signed a pap er they are brought up before th e ,

bishop and when they are r e qu ested to take an oath they say
,

th ey were deceived they d id not w ant to sign the paper


, .

Q So that the suggestion that the hostility against the


.

Spanish priests in their parishes is d ue to immorality you do ,

92
Tm Sen a t e Documen t

Roma n zr m
'

'

an a

cese under the pretex t that by bei n g named ecclesiastical gov


,

cruor the bishop himself bei n g i n sole con finement he could


, ,

secure from the government of Malolos the release of all these


ecclesiastical prisoners A s I could not com municate with
.

other places the au t hority was relegated to this man That is


,
.
,

some authority Armed with this authority h e went to Malolos


.

and claimed to be above the bishop from whom the authority


flowed ; but they would not even liste n to mass by him Since .

then he has been excommunica ted When al l these things


reached the ears of th e archbishop he publicly e x communicated
.

him and when that news r e ached Nue va Segovia and other plac es
the in s ur r e ct o r s said that would not hold water and they pro
tested against i t ; but a gr eate r part of the superior officers of
th e i nsurre ction and a large pa r t of the faithful believed it per
f e c tl y and that his holy orders should be taken away from him
, .

Q. Where is he now i’

A I n Ilocos Norte at the head of a large body o f i ns ur


.
,

gen ts i n the mountain s In the month of April last he went


.

down to Loag a to wn o f , inha bitants He h as no pre st ige .

among the Christians now because he has b e en e x co mmuic at ed ;


some of the clergy fear h i m but they have no regard for h i m ,

wha tever If there were a little more energ y o n the part of the
.

military when they caught some people to chastise them , the


people would b e better satisfied During the latter mo n t h s o f .

our imprisonment and confin ement General Tirona gave us a


great deal more freedom allowed us to walk around and t o
meet our parishioners and all of them without exception would
,

, , ,

say they we r e tired to death of the impositions o f the Kat ip u


nans and the war and they were only waitin g the arrival of the
,

Americans to pursue the i r vo cations in peace .

Q How long were you confined ?


.

A Sixteen months
. .

Q Then you have only r e c e mly been released


.

A The 1 s t o f Jannary I was released by the arrival of


. .

t h e American tro ops Some navy boats went around t o Aparri


.
,
th e commander of the Helena an d troops went up on the other
side from Nueva Ecija through to Isabella and then Tirona ,

said we had better get out of here and finding that he did not ,

have sufficient force to expel the Ameri cans he surrender ed at ,


'

Aparri . I
Q What kind of a man do you think he is
.

A He is a peculiar man ; he has very little stamina to ac t


.

for himself but lets other people do it When T ir o n a s force s


, .

arrived at Apar ri which was being defended by the Spani ar ds


,
.

they drew up articles of capitulation and the first thing afte r ,

they left they broke every one of those arti cles Sixty priests .

had gone down there from Ilocos and they proceeded to r o b


them of everything they possessed
Q How many priests in your diocese were assaulted or i ni
.

prisoned ? '

A All of those in the valley of Cagayan were imprisoned


.

and nearly every one of them was assaulted and robbed And .

in Illo co s the same way Whe n the insurrectionary forces ad


.

van ce d I calle d all those from Ill o c o s to come down


t o Vig an

because steamers sometimes called there from Hongkong W .


e

94
T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t m
a n a Roma n zs m
'

w aited there ei ght days when the i n surrectionary forces came


.

down and captured us in a steame r which b e longed to a tobacco


compan y here The crew mutinied and killed the Spanish
.

o fficers and came up there Then they sent that st eamer back .

t o Cavite and 60 0 of the insurrectionary forces got on board


,

and came up .

.
Q I want to get from you the proportion of the Spanish
p riests in your diocese that were imprisoned
.A One hundred and thirty were impri soned Most of them .

were at Aparri .

.
Q H o w many of those priests have since left the island
.A Many o f them have left for Spain by re ason of the
disease contracted dur ing this imprisonment and the hardships
t o which they were subjected Some o f them were horribly .

maltreated Between twenty fiv e and thirty have left


. .

.
Q Were any o f the priests of your diocese killed
A None were killed but one died of wounds received
. ,
.

There is one father here in the convent of Santo Domingo wh o


was beate n eig ht thousand times in a few days It is a wonder .

he has n o t died .

Q Has he regained his streng th


.

A Yes sir ; he is in fairly good condition now They


. ,
.

car ried him on foot forty leagues up the valley o f the Cagayan
an d forty leagues back Prior to that he suffered a great deal
.

with his stomach ; n o w it is a g reat deal better This beating .

with a stick brought all the impurities out of h im .

Q How man y Span ish priests were th ere in your diocese


.

A About 1 6 5
. .

Q Is this rather a small diocese


.

A It is larger than the one in Nueva Caceres but smaller


. ,

than the one in Jar e or Cebu The archbishopric has 00 0.

souls with four bishops The one at Ce bu has about 1 40 0 0 00 ,

and Jaro
.
,

Every y ear t h e bishop made a statement


more in detail th n this ; that is o n e copy was sent to the gov
a
.

cruor gener al an d one t o the archbishop .

Q The archbishop as I understand it is superior t o all


. , ,

other bishops in the islands


A Yes sir ; he is the metropolitan
. .
.

Q But he has a diocese of his own


.

A Yes sir ; he is a bishop for his diocese an d the arch


.
,

bishop over all Some questions come to him on appeal from


.

t h e bishops With respect to the ordin ary jurisdiction within


.

o ur o wn diocese the bishop has the same jurisdiction as


'

the
archbishop over h i s .

Q There are the bishops of Vigan of Nueva Caceres of


. , ,

Cebu an d o f Jaro ; and the bi shop of Cebu is the bishop over


.

Mindanao— or is that missionary 7


A Par tly under the bis hop of Cebu and partly under the
.

bisho p o f Jaro Before 1 8 6 7 it was under Cebu and then when


. . ,

they sent a bishop to Juro they divided it between them .

Q A n d the
.
bishop of Jaro has all of the island of Panay ?
A Yes sir. ,
.

Q Have .
you anything t o do with the o b as pias in r "

Man il a 2
96
Tfie Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zs m
'

an

A . on ly those l it t le piece s of land left for sayin g


No s ir ;

mass a bout once a y ear '

Q And you have nothing t o do with the mit e r fund


.

here
A No ; nothing Such proport ion of the miter fund as
. .
.

was nece s sary to aid the church was sent from here t o the
diocese The miter fund is admi n is te red here If there were .

a miter fund in my diocese I would administe r it Here the


.

.
,

miter fund has several houses which are administe red by the
archbisho p but in my diocese there are none
Q There is one question I would like to ask you : To what
.
, ,

do you att ribute the hostilit y such as exists to the parish , ,

priests
A It co mes from what we call t h e impious element For
. .

some years past they have been planting freer ideas in the
Philippine Islands— ideas that are non religious and non Cath o - -

lic and a few h alf e d uc at e d people have e spoused those ideas


, ,

and as they have disseminate d the idea that Catholicism is to be


put to an end here and they have endeavored to s o w the seeds
of discord a mong the six millions Catholic souls i n these islands
,

an d too notwithstanding the great majority of the people liked


, ,

the priests an d would l ike to have them back If y o u take away .

from the islan ds about pe rsons who are sowing these


seeds of discord the remaining ,will be perfectly satis
fie d .
In Manil a this element is most largely represente d .

Q We are charg ed with the duty of raising money by tax


'

ation to estab lish a sy stem of education We real iz e fully that .

this is a Catholic country and if i t ceases to be a Catholic coun ,


'

try it is much more likely in some regions to go i n to idolatry


than t o Protestantism and I am therefore an xious so far as I , ,

may to establish a school syste m that will meet the views of


,

t h e c h ur c h that is that will not be hostile to the views of the


, ,

church but we are restricted by the principle s of o ur govern


, .

ment from the direct presence o f the church in the schools and
I am attemptin g to devis e s ome method to suggest to the c o m
.

mission by which we shall re con c ile the consciences of the


Catholics to the public school and still follow the principles we
have suggested and ther e fore I have thought that if we were
,

to invi t e the Catholic church and other churches if any in the ,

neighborhood to send teachers of their respective religions to


,

the schools half an h our before school and half an hour after
school there to give such religious instruction as the parents of
,

the children may desire whether that sy stem would n o t if con , ,

ducted with fairness and justice perhaps reconcile o ur system ,

of public education to the views of the Catholic church


A The best way to do that would be to teach them t h e
"

cate chism as a Christian doctrine That system might work all


right in another country but I do not think it will work here
.

because among the In di ans if they are called upon to con


,
,

tri bute to the support of a public school system they naturally ,

being Catholics wi ll want Catholic ideas to be communica t ed


,

by the teachers Prov id e d by their mone y and t h ey will say , ,



These te achers do not teach an y Christ ian doctrine If we , .

pay for instructio n we want o ur children instructed in t h e



Catholic faith Now if the g overnm e n t is g oing to p ay t he
.
,

so

Roma n zr m
'

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t an a

of Santo T omas beg inning wi th A rchbishop No z ale d a who was


,
,

one of my professors .

And you have the d gree of the university ?


Q : e

A Like all the other lawyers here because there was no


. ,

other college All professional me n received their d egrees from


.

that university becaus e it was the only one


,
.

Q What class of society were the friars drawn from in


.

Spain ?
A I cannot state of my own knowledge but quoting the
. ,

friars themselves and persons who have traveled extensively in


Spain I should say that they came from the lowest orders o f
,

society ; and this i s corroborated by the fact that the majority ,

if not all of them wh en they first come have not the slightest
, ,

conception of social forms or etiquette and it might be said ,

they have the hair of the dog on them .

Q Were there not a good many well educated friars ?


.
-

A The fact is that they are almo s t totally unconscious o f


'

proper s ocial forms They act indecently and use indecent ex . ,

pressions in the presence of ladies in public to such an ex t ent


that I was forced o n one o ccasion to throw out a friar who was
'

not only using indecent language but acting indecently in the ,

presence of my w i fe Educated men there are among them but . ,

nearly all of them lack social polish which corroborate s the ,

fact that they are from the lowest orders .

Q Do the orders alii e r at all in this respect ?


.

A They do differ considerably


. You could draw distino .

tions For instance it may be said that the Augusti nians the
.
, ,

R e c o lle t o s the Dominicans and the Franciscans are the four


, ,

order s that have the least education .

Q I mean as between those four


. .

A Of these f our it seems that the Augustinians have a lit


.

tle more social polis h but the Franciscans are the last link of ,

the chain They are absolutely bereft of any idea even of soci al
.

polish or etiquette The Jesuits for instance have it may be


.
, , ,

said a very fair conception of social forms and it is said they


, ,

are c h osen from the upper families I know several of them .


,

an d I am certain that they come f rom disti nguished famil ies .

The P aulist fathers also have m ore culture and better c o n ce p


, ,

tions of social forms .

Q Have you any knowled ge of the agricultural p roperty


.

b elo n ging to the friars or any order of them from which they , ,

d erive revenu e ? I mean other than general rumor .

A The A ugustinians the Dom


. inicans and the R e co lle t o s , ,

have ag r icultural properties Let us begin with the Domini .


-

cans They have hacien d as in the provin ces of Cavite Bulacan


.
, ,

Laguna Manila and in Cag ayan In the province o f Cavi te


, , .

they have the following h acien d as : Naic an d Santa Cruz de


Malabon The hacienda of Naic includes all the pueblo of Naic
.

an d a part of a nei ghboring pueblo The second embraces the .

town of the s ame name— all of i t — and part o f the pueblo o f


San Francisco and of Salinas In the province of Laguna they .

have t h e follo wing haciendas : Binang which includes Binang , ,

S anta Rosa an d Cabuyao ; the hacienda of Calamba which i n


, ,

e ludes the towns of Calamba and p art of Los Banos Bay In


the province of Manila they h av e the hacienda of San J uan d el
.

98
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zl m
'

an

Mon t e which includes the town


, same name a part of of t he ,

that o f S e n Fe lipe Nari In Malabo n they have the hacien d a of .

Nabotas which inclu d es a part of the town of the same name


, .

In the province of Bulacan they have the Lomboy which ih ,

e lud es a part of the pueblos of Polo and M e ycauayan .

In the province of Cagayan they have the hacienda of Tu


g ue g ar ao .

The Augustinians have in the province of Manila the h a .

c ie n d a o f Man d o l ayo San Pedr o M e cati and G an d alup e which


, , ,

is a very profit able o n e because of the stone quarrie s it has .

Nearly the whole o f the province o f Ca vite is in the han ds


o f t h e friars ; that is the reason that the revolution was con e en
t r at e d there There is the hacienda of San Francisco de Mala
.

n o k nown as T e i j
, er o .

In t h e province o f Malabon they have Malinta which i h ,

c lud e s the pueblos o f Boc an e and Guinto .

In Cagayan they also have a tobacco plantation .

The Re c o l le t o s have in th e province o f Cavite the h ac ie n


das of Salitran which include s part of the pueblo Bacoor and
,

the pueblo o f Imus r e ach in g almo s t to Mo nte Lupa ; of S an


'

Juan which includes part of the pueblo p f Imus ; and of Perez


,

das Marinas .

In Mindoro they h ave a fin e plantation w ith a live stock -

range ; this was stocked with live stock but it has disappeared ,

sin ce the revolution .

I h ad almost forgotte n to mention that the Augustinians


always had in the Visayas and in Cebu the hacienda know n as
Tal isay .

For fear that some of the haciendas may have e s caped my


memory I w ill present to you a tab le setting forth all the h a
,

c ie n d a s t o g e t h e r wi t h the number of hectares the number of



,
,

inhabitants and the yield of products


,
.

Q .
I will be much obliged I have a state ment from the .

friars and would like to compare it with t h e one you send


,
.

A It seems that the Dominicans have made a simulate d


.

sale to Andrews .

Q .
Haven t they all

done the same thing ?
A As a matt e r o f my own knowledge I can only say as t o
.

the Dominicans I have seen the abstract of title o f the lands


'
'

o f the Dominicans and also the deed


.

Q .
Is it n o t true that the friars have h eld these estates ,

most of them for over one hundred years ?


,

A Some yes
. , .

Q . Or at least over fi fty years ?


1

A Yes ; but although they have held this land under a pos

s e s s o r y title as a matter o f fact in many cases like that of the


,
,

hacienda o f Calamba they did not even have a possessory title , ,

for they held it under the color of furnishing irrigation The .

idea is that originally all the lands in the Philippines belonged


to the crown o f Spain and the friars und er a pretext of f ur , ,

h ishin g
irrigation for those land s first commenced charg ing ,

possessors of the di ffe rent government la n ds a small quo t a


the
for the use of this water that they furnished them Then after .

a n umber of years they commenced applying the money whi ch


was paid for water to the purchase pric e of the land which land ,

99

Roman zs m
'

T/z e Sen a t e Documen t an a

d id not belong to the friars but belonged to the State and the
,
,

friars retained that money and the persons who were in posses,

sion of the lands believed that they were paying f o r the lands .

Q That is the case at Calamba ?


.

A A n d also at Imus Fro m the very incipiency of Spanish


. .

sovereignty in this archipelago under Philip II of Spain every . ,

pueblo was given a certain amount of land in common f o r t h e


bene fit of the vicina ge and now in nearly every instance all of
,

that land is in the hands of the friars The question is h o w . ,

did it get there withou t any record of any sale on the part of
any one of the p ue b l o s f This does not mean to say that they
have acquired all the haciendas in the same way For instance . ,

the hacienda of T e ije r o in Cavite was purchased from its form


er owner by the Augustinians .

Q What is the statute of limitations or of prescription


.

her e ?
A Ten years among those who are present and twenty
.

years among absent persons .

Q Don t you think that that defense could be m ade suc


'

.

ce s s f ully by the friars to most of the claims against the land .

I am askin g as a que s t i o mo f law ?


A Strictly speaking in the eye of the civil law I am of
. , ,

the opinion that their lands cannot be taken fr om them f o r ,

they c an rely not only o n prescr iption but also upo n a p o s s e s s o r y ,

title of very long standing .

Q I got that impression from hearing their evidence 1


. . .

have a tabular statement which I have not examined carefully


, ,

and do not expect to examine carefully until I take up all the


papers in the matter for examination in which they give the ,

dates of the deeds conveying the lands to the different order s .

A Besides all of these f ac te their title was sold by the


.
,

royal decree issued in the time of F ab ie before mentioned , ,

when they were allowed to alienate these lands and that nat , ,

ur all y being on e of the rights of a fee simple propr ietor it rec -


,

o gn iz e d that title and therefore I state that in the eyes of the


,

civil law you c an n c t atta ck their title .

Q What do you think the ir land is worth assuming that


.
,

they can go on it wit hout being shot ?


A It is better for the Filipinos to lose the land t han to
.

have them here .

Q What was it wort h in 1 89 6 ?


.

Q Land has gone up a good deal now Of all the religious


.
.

corporations from three m illions up in 1 8 9 6 That is Me x ican


, . .

They claime d they had five millions worth You could p r oceed .

from this basis that every k in o n which is a land measure h ere


, , ,

of ir rigated rice land is worth 1 0 00 pesos ; in other words o n e ,

Mexican dollar for e very square meter o f land ; that is the legal
standard and besides they are the be st lands in the archipelago
'

, .

Q Suppose we could get the land for


. — that is
,

t h e whole of i t could we sell it for that b y selling it o ff i n


s mal l parcels to the person s who l ive on it ?


~

A You could get a great deal more than that By selling


.
.

i t i n small parcel s
g ivin g t h e prefe r ence o f buying it t o the
,

men who are already on a n d cultivating it you c an make much ,

more than that out of it Speakin of t h e l andholders in the


g .

1 00 1

T/ze Sen a t e Documen t Roma n zr m
'

an a

measure it b ut i n the intere s t of b revity I w ill leave out details


,

and proceed If the fria r s state that they are the best landlords
.

h ere — and there are a number of landlords why i s the an imosity


all directed against the friars an d not the other landlords ?
Q I would be glad to go on and ask a good many other
.

questions that your ans wers suggest but I must cut it down ,

w ithin reasonable lim its .

A Yes that is only a skeleton sketch because a man is


. . ,

kn o wn through details .

Q I will ask one other question which I asked the friars


. ,

when they were here and that is whether there was anythin g ,

recogn ized hy t he friars such as o ur tenant rig ht sometimes ,

called in Ireland Ulster tenant right where a man takes a place ,

from year to year and has no title oth er than that of holding
from year to year ; and yet the probab ility that he will be con
tinned is recognized as something of value which may be sold ,

from one man to another or which will go from father t o son , ,

and I could not l e arn from the friars whether any such thing
exi sted or not I got the impression that it did not
. .

A I will answer that by saying that such a syste m does


.

exist but always subject to the discretion of the friars Still


,
.

th e cus t om prevails of not only passing this tenant right from


f ather to son but also conveying it to another person usually
, ,

as a matte r of bargain and sale and the new purchaser gener ,

ally pays more for improvements made by the lessee ; but all o f
this of course is subject to the approval of the original land
, ,

l ord the friar


, .

Q : What political fun ctions were actually exercised by the


friars in the islands under Spanish rule ?
A . Aside from those political functions which the laws
recog n i ze i n th em and which are many and began with the,

vise which they put upon the credentials of moral character of


every inhabitant of t h e pueblo and terminate d in the friar be ing ,

a member of the fis hing board which is rather an intermina b le ,

chain— their extra legal functions embraced everyt hin g Be .

ginning with the municipal organization he is supervisor of ,

everything conne cted with the municipality His opinion i s .

asked with respect to the appointment o f municipal o fii ce r s .

When information as to a man s m o ral standin g is requested ’

if the credentials don t bear the v i s e by the friar they are o f ’

no effect He is inspector of the schools a member of all the


.
,

boards— the forestr y board the municipal boards and all other , ,

boards In Manila in the central gover nment the archbishop


.
, ,

an d bishops are members of the board of authorities The four .

provincials are members of the board of the council of admin


i s t r at i on The whole thing is said when I stated that they b e
.

longed to the board of fis h er ie s — and heaven knows what a friar


has got to do with fis h To refer again to the extra leg al d u .

ties self imposed by the friars I may put it in a word by saying


-

that the governor general who does n o t act in conformity wit h


-

the friars is a dead man as evidenced by the case of General ,

Calon D e s puj0 1 of ve ry recent date ; and when I say governor


,

gene ral I include all the authorities beneath him


, .

Q What were the relations between the heads of the Span


.

is h government here and the heads of the church ?


1 02
The Sen a t e D oc umen t

Roma n zs m
'

ana

A When we consider the intimate linking of the ch urch


.

and the state which prevailed under the Spanish regime it i s ,

unnece ss ary for me to state that afte r all the friar was the , ,

first authority in the Philippines .

Q What fees were actually colle cted by the parish priest s


for marriages and births ?
A There really existe d a schedule of fees
.
which was pro , ‘

mulg ate d by an archbishop n amed Don Balio Sancho d e Santo


Justa y Rufin a That schedule is still in force and is posted in
.
,

the cathedral now but that sche dule of fe es was never car r ied
,

o ut and every friar charged just what he t h ought best I don t '
, .

make this statement from hearsay but from personal knowledge , ,

because I was a member o f a society whose purpose it was to


bring about marriages between those who were living together
but were unmarried and I have personally witnessed many
,

weddings where the fees were always far beyond the l egal
schedule and in all the long time th at I have been a member of
,

t his society I have never yet found a single case where the
friar has condoned or e xempted the par ty from payment of
fees when he knew that most of the marriages were conducte d
,

under the au s pices o f the society and that the fees were paid .

by the society .

Q Do you think that the fees imposed had any e fie c t on


.

preventing marri ages


A Few were the influences that it h ad considerin g t he cus
. ,

tom among the people here because they would g et the money,

for these fees even if they had to steal it If an y evil results


,
.

were noticeable from these fees they were limited almost ex .

e lusively to Manila but in the provinces , even if they had to ,

ste al it t hey w ould get the money


,
.

Q Now as to the morality of t h e friars have y o u had much


. ,

opportunity t o observe as to this


A Considerable from my earliest y o uth With respect to
. ,
.

their morality in general it was such a common thing to see


,

chi ldren o f fr iars that no one ever pai d any attention to it or


t hought of it and so depraved had the people become in this
,

re gard that the women who were the mistresses of fr iars really
felt great prid e in it and had no compunction in speaking of it .

So general had this thing become that it may be said that even
now the rule is for a fri ar to have a mistress and children and ,

he who is not is the rare exception and if it is desired that I ,

give names I could cite right now o n e hundred children of


friars .

Q In Manila o r in the provinces ?


.

A In Manila and in the provin c es Everywhere Many of


.
. .

my sweethearts have been daughte rs of friars .

Q Are the .
friars living in the islands still who have had
t hose children ?
Q Yes ; and
.
I can give their nam e s if necessary an d I can ,

give the names of the children too Beg inning with mysel f , . ,

my mother is the daughte r of a Franciscan friar I do not d ie .

honor myself by saying this because my family begins with ,

myself .

Q I will be
.
much obliged
.
for a l ist ?
A I can give it to y o u right n o w : In Pandac an Isidro
. ,

1 03
d Roma ms m

T/z e Sen a t e D ocu men t an

Mendo a son of the B ishop


z ,
Pe d ro Payo when he was the ,

parish curate of t h e Pueblo o f Samar ; in Imus the Wi fe of ,

C ayeta n o Topazio daughter of a R e c o le c t o friar of Mindoro ;


,

in Zambales Louise Las ac a n o w in Zambales and se veral ,

sisters and brothers were children of Friar B enito Tuto r a


, ,

f iar in Bulacan in Qui gua I can not remem b e r the


Re co lec to r ; n ,

last name th e first n ame is Manuela a godchild of my moth er


,
.
,

is a d augh er of an Augustinian friar named Alvaro ; in Cavi te ,

a ce rtain Patrocinio Ret i es is a daughter of Friar Rivas . a


Domin ican friar ; Colonel A guillar who is on the Spani sh ,

b o ard of liquidati on is the son of Father Ferrer an Au gusti ni an


,
,

monk .

Q How do you know these th ings ?


.

A In some cases through family relations others b e


. ,

caus e they were godchildren of my father and others I became ,

possessed of the facts through being attorney I myse lf have .

acte d as godfather for three chil dr en of friars I am now .

managi ng an estate of that came fr om a friar for his


thre e ch ildren A family lives with me who are all childr en of
'

Dr Gon al es was the son of a friar was he not ?


Q . z . ,

A Yes ; I didn t care t o mention him Referring t o th is


.

.

matt e r I must recogni ze that we ought t o be thankful t o the


,

fri ars because t hey have bette red our race


,
.

Th t was not the subject was it of great co n d e m


Q . a , ,

nation by the people


A By no means
. .


Q It was a kind of departure from t h e ce l ibacy was n t
. ,

t hat it ?
A It was merely an infraction of the c anonical law
.
.

Q It was not a general lice nti ousn ess o n the par t of the
.

fr iars
A It was a general licentiousness bec ause as I have said
. . , ,

th e exce pt ion as t o the rule among the fri ars was not t o hav e a
mistres s and be th e father of children by her The f ri ar who
was not mixed up with a woman in some way o r other was lik e
.

a snowbird in summer but it must h e confes s ed th at for th e


,

pa st t e n years t hey have improved somewhat in this re ga rd .

Q How do t hey compare with the native clergy in this


.

matte r
A To tell the truth they almost run together although it
.
, ,

must be said also that the latter the n ative priests are not so
bare face d about it They have a certain fear B ut in this r e
, ,

-
. .

gard they were merely followi ng the general rule and the
,

general e xample .

Q That would seem to indicat e that the immorality of the


.

friars is not t h e chief groun d of the hosti lity o f the people


again st them would it not .

A That is not by any means becau s e th e moral sense o f


.
, ,

th e whole peo ple here had been absolutely pe rverted So f r a .

quent were these infr actions of the moral laws o n t h e part o f


the friar s that really no o n e ever care d or to ok any notice of
them ; and this acquiescence on the part o f the people was im
posed upon them for woe be unto him who should ever mur
,

mur anything against the friars and even the young Filipino ,

women h ad t heir s en se s p er r te d because when atte nd ing


ya ,

Roma n zr nz
'

T/ze S en a t e Documen t .
an a

w hich ; as my friend says are the worst but the re is no ani , ,

mo s i t y ; the Capuchin s against whom there is no an imosity ;


,

the B enedictines against who m there is no animosity ; and the


,

Paull s t fathers also and all of the s e ar e Spaniards and st ill


,
,

there is no animosity against them ; but the an imosity is against


the first named .

.
Q These others were not pari sh priests ?
.
A The latte r named never occupied the parish priests and ,

c onse quently h ad no pr eponderance in the government


.

Q And that re all y expla ins the difference


A Yes sir And so far as the Jesuits are concerned they
.

. .
,

are even re cognized as benefactors of the country and they are ,

al so recognized as those who have given the greatest impulse


'

t o education and that is one of the reasons why these four


,

corporations first n amed are at war with the other cor porations ,

and pr incipally with the Jesuits .

.
Q What do you know of deportation due t o the compla ints

of the friars
.A They have had great deal of intervention in the depor
tatie n an d they were the movin g element always in depor
,

t at io n s when they did not like anybody .

.
Q They occas ionally inte r vened t o prevent deport ation s
A I have known of cases ; for instance the case of the
. ,

bishop of Cebu and t h e Camarines The former bishop inter .

ceded i n behal f of Torres and Llore nte who was one o f the
-

justices of the supreme court .

Q A r e the native priests well educate d


.

A There must be two or more stages con sidered in answer


.

ing that question because of different conditions that have


,

prevailed at different times All the native clergy who have .

donned the ecclesiastical garb since 1 8 7 2 the time of the revo ,

la tion of Cavite leave much to be desir ed In the first plac e


, . ,

because the instruction in the theological seminaries was very


poor indeed There was a movin g cause i n all this ; for i n
.

stance the instruction in the theo logical s e min ar ie s was made


, r

purpose ly d eficient b e cause the archbishops desired t o show the


authorities in Rome that none o f the natives were ever capable
of assuming charge of the curacies in the province s and there ,

fore renderin g it necess ar y for the friars alone to be named .

The reason why only the poorer students of the un iversity h e


came priests was because those who were qu icker mentally and
were brighter every way would not go into the priesthood b e
cause they knew o f the un happy conditions that would prevail
afte rwards .

Q What do you think would be the result of the friars at


.

tempting to go back to their parishes


A I will answer that by stating what a countryman to ld
"

me : He says that all the friars have to do is to go back t o their


parishes and sleep one night and the chances are that they ,

would never awaken I do not mean to say by th is that every


.

pueblo in all the provinces would cut the throats of the r e t um


ing parish priests but even supposing there were but three
, ,

pueblos in each province that we re antagonistic t o the return of


the parish priests they wo uld begin the undertak ing o f inciti ng
,

1 06
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t d Roma n zs n z
'

an

al l the others until they h ad gotte n them in the condition where


they would do the same .

9 Q What do you thin k of the establishment of a public


.

school system al lowin g half an ho ur before or h alf an hour


aft er school for religious instr uction Would that satisfy the
Catholics o f t he island
A So long as the instru ction was only i n the Catholic r e
.

l ig io n of course
, .

Q The instruction would not be b y the public school


. -

teacher The oppo r tunity would be given to everyone ; but as


. ~

there would be none there but priests I suppose the Catholics .

would be the on ly ones t o go The children would only go and


.

receive the instruction that their parents desired .

A I have always entertained the idea that the separation


.

o f church and state in this island is one of the most difficult

undertakings Possibly it is the most arduous problem that


.

there i s h er e and I believe that the establishment of free r e


.
,

lig io us instruction would produce a bad e fiec t o n the people .

Q You do not quite understand the system I mean Under


. .

the Constitution of the United States it is n o t possible for us t o


spend any public money for any religious instruction but the ,

Catholic clergy seem to feel that instruction ought to be ao


c ompanied by re ligious instruction Now then if we give to
. , ,

the Catholic priest the opportunity to go and meet the pupils .

eith er before or after the reg ular c urriculum for half an hour ,

o r an hour as he see fit to give them instruction will that act .

meet the desires of the people for the union of education and
relig ion
A It would be satisfactory to the people provided it were
. ,

o nly the Catholic priests who went there .

Q It would practically amount t o that for no child would


. ,

be compelled to listen t o any rel igious instruction which the ir


p arents did not desire them to liste n to It is wholly with in the
.

control of the parents .

A This question would be very easy of soluti on and would


.

be unde rstood perfectly by an educated people but the people ,

we have here are not reasoning enough to grasp all of that and ,

would th ink that what is a perfectly free fun ction was some
thing compulsory ; and there is another thing that wo uld ar i s e
'

an d that is that in the Catholic clergy themselves there would


be found those who would object t o that because it is free and ,

any member of any r eligion could go there and they would e s ,

t ab l i s h th eir own schools The people are surpris ed that they


.

don t te ach the cate chism in the public schools for it has b e e n

,

the custom o f the children to learn to read out of the cate chism ,

and that is what renders this a very di fficult problem and per ,

haps the permitting of free religious instruction in the schools


may redound to the injury o f those schools and this because ,

the people confound what is per fectly free and what is obli
g at o r y .

Q There
.
are but two courses open — o n e to give o
p p or

t un it y t o have religious instru ction an d the other t o have


,

schools without it at all


A I believe it is preferable to suppress it ent ir ely and t r
.

give the r e ligious i nstr uction in churches .

1 07
Tae Sen a t e Docum en t

Rom a n zr m
'

an a

Q .I am g l ad to get your Opinion for it is a very d ifnc ult ,

question .

A It is the most arduous question i n these inte rrogato ries


. ,

and pre se nts th e gravest proble m f or we are treating with a ,

fanatical Catholic people and then besides we are confronted


, , ,

by a gro ssly ignorant people .

Q Tendin g some of them t o fetichism ?


.

A Yes The fact is that the people at large have n ot


. .

grasped the true inspiration of catholicis m it is tinsel dazzling


before their eyes Certain things come up and immediate ly the


.

people turn over to fetichism an d idola try There is a sect .


,

called the Colorum— in the provi nces of Batangas Lag una , ,

Mindoro and Tayabas— whi ch has more than a hundred thou


,

sand proselytes which is an adulteration of the third order of


,

St Francis admixed with ancie n t idolatries and th at is the r e al


. ,

cause of t h e tremendous fanaticism that e xists in those four


'

province s It is not confined t o these four it is pretty


.

general .

Q Does it not need the influence of a culti vated clergy ?


.

A That is true if you were treating of a people who could


.

understand y o u What you nee d her e is not great knowledge


.
,

b ut to attract them b y the affection You cannot thrust aside .

or oblite r ate all these notions by any cold reason .

Q No ; but a cultivated high toned clergy that was well


. ,
-

educated co uld not but exercise a good influen ce if they used


, .

common s e n se jn a community like that .

A , That is ve ry t rue ; but i f the people don t take kindly to '

that clerg y the prob lem is still unsolved


, .

Q W hat do you think about introducing American cl er gy


.

here ?
A It depe nds en t ire ly upon how they conduct th ems elves
. .

Q No w as to the e ffect of t h e government either buyin g or


.

e x app r o pr i a t i n g the agricultural property of the friars and sell


ing it out in small p arcels and using the proceed s for a school
.

fund— do you think t hat a practicable idea ?


A That is practicable and the only solu tion to the prob
.
,

lem and that would als o solve the agrarian and social aspect of
,

the re volution .

Q Is not that so far as it relate s t o the friars co nfined t o


. , ,

the provinces of Cavite Batangas Manila and Bulac an ? , , ,

I mean largely ?
A Yes ; where the friars have haciendas ; but still it has
'

spr ead somewhat to other provi nc es where they hold no lan d ,


but it is of little i mportance .

1 08
T/ze Sen a t e Documen t d Roman zr m
'

an

A .
I really had no c h an c e t o j udge
x ce , ex pt of the J esuits ,

because they were my teachers and o f the Augustinians of


, .

which order the friars in my province are and o n e R e co lle t o ,

friar in Montalban provin ce of Manila who very nearly got us


, ,

all into j ail up there in the year 1 886 .

Q Do you know an ything about the property owned by


.

the friars in the Philippines ?


A I can only state that from trustworthy sour ces I have
.

he ard that they own a great deal of landed property and I have ,

myself visited three or four of their estates at Imus Malinta , , ,

and Lolomboy On these estate s I have been even in the manor


.

houses but I do not know the e xt ent of their holdings


,
.

Q They have none in Pampanga ?


.

A They have not even one foot of land in Pampanga


. .

Q What in Pamp an ga did the fri ars do in the way of polit


.

ical contr ol of the town ?


A In the first place they had direct int ervention in what
.

might be called the private life of every indi vidual If t hey .

desired that he live at ease he could live uninterrupte d i n the


,

pursuit of his occupations ; if they did not they coul d make h is ,

life a torment The friars directe d most of their att ention if


.
,

not all of it to those persons i n each pueblo who were of the


,

upper class by reason of their property or education— such as


did not need the friars to aid them in any of their plans The .

friars usual ly watched these people ve r y closely so as to d is co v


er any way at all in which to either get land or money from
them by makin g accusations against them The methods pur .

sued by the friars in t h e pueblos to show their prowess t o the


g ob e m ad or c ill o s was somethin g afte r this fashion : When a new
g o b e r n ad or c ill o was named the friars woul d go t o the provincial
,

governor and say that he ought to impose a fin e on th e gober


n ad or c il lo because he did not keep the roads within h i s j uris

diction i n a proper condition Acting upon this , the provincial


.

governor would impose the fin e and the g o b e r n ad o r c il lo would


,

apply to the parish friar to inte rcede for him with the governor .

This the friar would do asking the prov in cial g overnor t o t e


,

mit the fin e which he would do In this way the friar would


, .

in gratiate himself wi th the g o b er n ad o r c i ll o and also show to,

h i m what a power he had over all the political authorities If .

the friar happened to be at outs with the provincial gover nor .

he would utilize his influence over the g o b e r n ad o r c illo t o the


end that the latte r would show him all the orders that he r e
c e ive d from the provincial governor before he execute d the

same and if any of these orders met his views he would i n


,
,

struct the g o b e r n ad o r c illo to obey them ; if not he would tell ,

him to pay no attention to them If matt ers came t o a crisis


.
,

the friar would advise the g o b e r n ad o r c ill o t o either take t o the


woods or to come to Manila and become a guest of the monas
,

t e r y of his order there and then he would prepare charges


,

against the provincial governor and have it sig ned by all the
principal people in the pueblo A nother method of the friars
.

relate d to the collection of their fees or stipends They formed .

all the lists of the population of their d ifie r e n t districts from


the parish baptismal register and purposely avoided any refer
,

ence to the deat h register ; consequently whoever was baptized ,

no
Tue Sen a t e D oc um en t an d Roma n zlvm
in that place could li v e forever and was returned always as b e ,

ing alive and a resident of that place even though he h ad died ,

o r moved and b e compelled the cabezas barangay who were


, ,

the tax collectors to turn over t o them their stipend based up


,

o n these public returns an d if they failed to turn the stipends


,

over on the ground that no su ch population existed th ey were ,

put in jail through the friars an d bereft of their p o s it io n u The


basis for the pay ment o f the stipend to the curates in former
times was the population and ever y year a list of the po pulation
,

was made up ostensibly by the g o b e r n ad o r c ili o but the only sta ,

t i s t ic s there were in these pueblos were the parish registe rs kept


by the friars and the friars compelled the g o b e r n ad o r c illo s ,
,

therefor e to come t o them and let them vis é the lists that were
,

se n t in to the provincial governor and naturally increased them ,

so as to increase salar y .

Q So to swell the taxes they robbed the cradle and the


.

grave ?
A They augmented the cradle but diminished the grave
The friars had a sy ste mof blackmail by which they held the
. .
.

rod over all the citizens of a pueblo about whose habits and ,

closet skeletons they learned through mak ing little girls of


from fiv e to six and seven years o f age who could barely speak , ,

and wh o were naturally and must have been sinless come to ‘

the co n fessional and relate to th em everything that they knew


o f the private life in their own homes and in places that they
might visit .

Q Did they take an active part in the improvements or


.

whatever was done in the town ?


A It ma y be said that they had full direction and char ge of
.

all the public works in their d ifie r en t j urisdiction s except such ,

as were o f a nature demanding the supervision of a corps o f


engineers under the board of public works at Manila who were ,

always Spaniards naturally to direct the public works in the


, ,

pueblos ; they always had to live in the convent with the friars
so as to ge t into their good graces for if they did not the , ,

fr iars would report them as being derelict in their duty or with


misappropriating funds .

Q What can you say about the fees collecte d by the priests
.

for marriages etc ,


.

A I cannot state positively what the fees charg ed are but


. .
,

I can say that they are very heavy and always increasing b e , ,

cause I have to pay the birth marriage and burial fees of all of , ,

my tenants and servants and they are charged o n an ever ,

increasing scale The s ligh e s t improvement made to a church


.

o r convent is used as a pretext for eno r mously increasing these


fees The fees are very burdensome to the landed propr iet or
. ,

for the Filipino unfortunately when he g ets an idea acts on it


, , ,

without caring for the consequences and if he feels like getting ,

married even though he is very poor he will get married and


, .
,

have children for all of which his landlord has to pay


,
.

Q What d o you know about the morality or immoral ity o f


.

t h e f r i ar s ?

A T o o much I have nothing to add to what Senor Calde


.
.

r on says save to cite some more names


,
.

Q Have you known a good many young women and young


.

111
T/ze Sen a t e Doc um en t ’
Rom a n zr m

ana

men who were the re pu ted d aughters and sons of friars ?


A I have kno wn a great many and n o w have living o n my
.
,

own e s tate six chil dren of a friar .

Q Were all the friars licentious ?


.

A I believe that th ey all are


. .

Q Do you think that was the ground of hostility against


.

the friars ?
A No s ir ; C ae s arism was Everything was dependent
.
, .

upon them an d I may say that even the process of eating was
,

under their supervision Naturally their immorality h ad a


.

slight in fl uence in the case but it became so common that it ,

passed unnoticed .

Q Does the hostility ex ist ag ainst all the orders ?


.

A Onl y agains t the four : The Augustinians in my prov


.

ince the Re c o lle t o s t h e Dominicans it e xisted against the Do


, ,

minican a in Pangasinan for I have heard p eople living there


,

speak of it when I visited them and the Franciscans — .

Q Why d id i t exist against the four and not against the


.

Jesuits Pauliat Fathers and Benedictines ?


,

A Because the latter not having any parishes the people


.
,

d id not know whether they were the same or not ; although we


kno w hi storically that the Jesuits are the worst but we have ,

never had any palpable evidence .

Q You have never heard charges of immorality against the


.

Jesuits ?
A No
. .

Q Was this feeling in Pampan g a again s t the friars con


. r

fined to the leading men in each town to four or fiv e o r did it , ,

permeate the lower classes ?


A In former times only the u pper class would express their
.

opinions with respect to the friars but since the friars h ave ,

left their curacies , t h e pent up feeling o f all classes cf society


'

is expressed a n d the murders of priests and the attack s upon


,

priests which h ave recent ly occurred are due ent irely to the ,

lower classes of society and not even connived at or instigated


,

by the upper classes .

Q Charges have been made ag ainst the friars that they


caus ed deportation s of Filipinos D o you know of such in .

stances ?
A Yes sir. In my own province it was seen that the
.
,

large majority of the friars and more especially the now de ,


!

ceased friar Anto n io Brabo had great influence l n the depor t a ,

tion of many influential citizens as also in the incarceration of ,

several of them 1 11 order to subsequently have them released so


as to sho w their powe r with the authorities I myself at the .


, ,

instigation of friars have been the victim o f their machinations


, ,

for they wanted me sent to Manila to be criminally prose cuted ;


but thanks to the governor and to my father in law who was a - -

European I escaped , .

Q I t is charged also that they were guilty o f physical


.
-

, ,

cruelty to their own members and others What do you know .

about it ?
A They were crue l not only in their treatme nt of their
.
,

servants by beating them but they also took great delight in,

bein g eyewitnesses to tortures and beatings of men in prisons


112

T/ze Sen a t e Doc umen t Roma n zr m
'

ana

to the priest t h an to any other member of the community and ,

that t h e pries t occupies no political function whatever ?


A I believe it would solve the whole problem
.
.

Q I understood you t o say that the orders o wn nothing in


.

Pampanga
A None
. .

Q The agrarian question mentioned by Mr Calderon l a


.
.

really a local question affe cting Cavite Batangas Bulacan and


, , , ,

Laguna
A Yes sir ; and in the province of Manila
.
,
.

Q It really pl ays very little part in Pampanga


'

A It may be said that Pampan g a has al ways been happy


. ,

and even in the matter of cu r ates we have had fairly good me n


as a rule .

Q From your general knowledge do you thin k the pur


. ,

chase o f the land would help out the agrarian question


A Yes ; that would solve the problem but the United
.

States ought not to pay more for the lan d s than the price that
private individuals here have h ad to pay and the friars got ,

them at a lower figure $1 f o r a squ are mete r of fir s t class rich


,
-

lan ds with irrigat ion .

Q I suppose people in the islands honest men could be


.
— —

had to appraise these lands at what they ar e really worth


A They ought to be appraised at what they were worth
.

formerly and not what they are worth tod ay .

Q Are they worth more to day


.

A A great deal more


. Under the right o f eminent domain . ,

they ought to be compelled to sell their lands at a fair pr ice


above what they paid for them but not what they are worth ,

n o w.

Q They have sold their lands in a way haven t they


.
, ,

A I c an not state O f my own knowledge but it is a very


.
,

current public rumor th at so me of the m have made a fictitiou s


sale so as to get the m in the name of another .

Expressions of thanks .

INT E RV I E W W I T H S E N OR NOZA R I O
C O N ST AN T I N O OF B I GAN P ROV I NCE ,

OF BU LACAN N OW R E S I DI N G ,

I N MAN I LA .

O C O B R 1 9 1 9 00 T E , .

Q How lon g have you lived 1 n the Philippine s


'

A I was born here and I am now fif t eight never having


y
.
, ,
left the island s .

Q Whe re were you born


A I n Bigan but whe n I became a lawyer I came do n
.
,
w to
live i n Manila .

Q 519 ve you been i n the habit O f going back to Bulacan 9


. 1 .

A Constantly All my inte rests a n d l an d s are there


. .
.

114
Tne Sen a t e D ocumen t a n a Roma n zr m ’ ’

Q How much p rsonal Opportu i t y had y u before 1 8 9 6 to


.
e n o
know the r elations an d the social religious and political atti
, , ,

tude o f the friars toward the people and the people toward the
friars
A I have had many opportunities What the friar s acting .

as pari sh priests have done for many ye ars prior t o 1 89 6 is to


commit fl agrant abuses both in their private an d public li fe .

Q Have you known many fri ars personally


.

A I have known a great many


. .

Q D O yo u know what class of society they were generally


.

drawn f r om in Spain
A I do not know Some of t hemshow they have received
.
.

a fair education but many others show that they only came
,

over here under the cloak of r e ligion to gain a living .

Q Do you know o f any agricultural busine s s o r resi d ence


.
, ,

property owned by any order of the friars from which they


derive revenue
A I know that they o wn city property and also suburban
.

property They have a multitude of country estates In Bula


.
.

can they have at least three or f our perhaps five h aciendas , , .

Q Can y ou tell the di ffe rent orders owning estates in


.

Bulacan
A In the province o f Bulacan is the haciend a o f Pandi
.
,

Lolomboy belonging to the Do mi n icans ; Mal inta D an e p ol and


, , ,

Trece to the Augustinians Those are the shod Aug ustinians


, .
,

as distingu i shed from those who go barefooted The na me of .

the Re c o lle t o r is unshod Augustinians ” .

Q What political functions did the friars discharg e b e


.

fore 1 8 9 6 in the villages in which t h ey w er e parish prie sts ?


'

A The political function s that they exercised were those


.

o f ruling the entire cou ntry every authority and everybody


,

having to be subservient to their caprice .

Q D O you know what were the relations between the heads


o f the Spanish government and the heads O f the church here
.

A Generally speaking the governor general had t o keep on


the good side of the head O f the church her e for h e knew full
.

'
,
'

well that if he should do anything wh i c h was displeasing to the


archbishop that he wo uld last a v e ry shor t time in the Philipp ines .

Q What were the fees actually collected f o r the marriages


.

and births and burials Were they oppre s sive or otherwise


A That depended entirely up on the ca price of the parish
.

friar and the ability to pay o f the person needing his services .

Many times the latter would have to pay four times the o fii ci al
schedule .

Q What was the morality of the friars


.

A There was no morality whatever and the story of the


.
,

immorality would take too long to recount Great immorality .

and corruption . d esire to say here th at speaking thus .

frankly about the habits of the p riests the witnesses would ,

fear that they might be persecuted by the priest if it should


ever get o ut what they were sayin g here ) .

J udge Taft I don t expect to publish it I e xpect to use


.

.

it to make a report to the commission .


Q Have you known of the children o f f r iars b eing about in


.

B ul acan
115

T/ze Sen a t e Doc umen t Roma n zr m
'

an a

A Yes sir About the yea r 1 8 40 an d the y e a r 5 0 e very


.
, .

f r iar curate i n the province of Bulacan had his concubine .

Dr Joaquin Gonzales was the son of a curate O f Baliuag and


.
'

he has three sisters here and an other brother all children o f ,

t he same friar We do not look up o n this as a discredit to a


.

man .

The multitude of friars who came here from 1 8 7 6 to 1 89 6


and 1 89 8 were all o f the same kind an d to n ame the number of ,

children that they have would t ake up an immense lot of space .

There was a case for instance o f the governor of the province


, ,

of Bulacan ( and I know whereof I speak for I have practiced ,

law there for many years) wh o was named Canova and h e was ,

a man who was very strict in the performance o f his Ofii c ial
duty an honest and an upright man He endeavored to put a

stop to the deportat ions Of the friars and they combined and
.

called upon h im in a bod y and asked him in a threatening man


ner if he desired to remain as g overnor O f that province He .

to ld them to go to hell ; and they said Now if y o u don t want


'


, ,

t o stay here you better ask to be tr ansferred to another pro


vin ce because if you don t leave voluntarily you will not r e
,

main here three months long er A very short time after that .

he had to leave .

Q Did not the people become so accustomed to the r e


.

l at io us which the friars had with the women that it really paid
very little part in their hostility to the friars assumin g that the ,

hostility did exist


A That contributed somewhat to t he hostility of the people
.
,

an d they carried things in th i s regard with a very hi h hand


g ,

for if they should desire the wife or d aughter of a man and the ,

husband opposed such advances they would endeavor to have ,

the man deported by bringing up false charges o f being a


filibuster or a Mason and afte r succeeding in getting rid Of the
,

husband they would by foul o r fair means accomplish their


, , ,

purposes and I will cite a case that actually happened to us It


, .

was the case of a first cousin Of mine Dona S o p an c e who , ,

marrie d a girl from Baliuag and went to live in Agonoy and ,

there the local friar cur ate who was pursuing his wife got him
the position as registrar Of the church in order to have him
occupied in order that he might continue his advances with the
wife He was fortunate in this undertakin g an d succeeded in
.

getting th e wife away from the husband and afte rwards had the ,

husband deported to Puerto Princesa near Jolo where he was , ,

shot as an insurgent and the friar continued to live with the


,

wid ow and she bore him children The friar s name i s J ose .

Martin an Augustinian friar


, .

Q Is he still in the isl ands ?


.

A He was an Old man and he has gon e over to Spain


.
, .

This was in the year 1 89 1 1 89 2 or perhaps 1 89 3 , , .

Q I want to ask y o u whether t h e hostility again st the


.

f r 1 ar s is confined to the ed ucate d and the better element among


the people
A It permeates all classes o f society and princi ally the
.

p ,

lower for they can do nothing The upper class by reason o f


, .
,
their education can stand them o ff better than the lower classe
, s ,
116
Tfie Sen a t e Documen t an d Roma n ian
would contin ue t o be Catholics and would not inquir e into t l
n ationality of their priests .

Q.
What about the moral i ty of the native priests as co n

pared with the friars


A There i s no comparison at al l Even when the nativ
.
.

priest following in the footst e ps o f h is te acher co mmii


, ,
.

abuses and immoralities h e doe s it less open ly o r shameless


?

than the friar One o f the great reasons f o r the objecti ons 1
.

the friar is that the spirit of union an d solidarity which hol c


their religious communities to gether prevents pun ish ment fro;
bein g visite d upon t he unworthy If I were to go to the pr .
<

v in c ial of an order an d lodge charges o f heinous o fie s


n i

again st the curate of my pueblo he would say I will fix that ,

and ete r nity would pass before it was fix ed ; an d in some 0 8 8


1

where outrageous conduct h as been charged agains t the curat


an d public opinion was unan imous in cryin g for c ondign p ut
i s h me n t again s t the cul prit the provin cial has arranged t l,

matter by taking the cul prit away from that to wn an d se n d ix


him to a bette r one This is public and noto r i ous In t h
.
.

very cas e that I spoke o f o f F r iar Jose Mar t in with my fir,

cousin the latter wen t to Archbis hop No z ale d a with lette


,

which had pas sed between the fri ar and his wife The lette .

were written in cipher understood only by the woma n and t]


friar and with locks of h is hair and his photo graph which h a
, ,

been sent t o his wife My cousin wan te d him to d is c ip li


.
'

th is man and to prevent him from encroaching upon hi s h o us


hold A rchbishop No z ale d a said that the c ase was with in i i
.

j urisdiction of the vicar of the provin ce resi din g at Baliua ,

and that was the e n d o f the case Nothin g was ever done I .

the archbishop or the vicar exce pt as I have said before t i , , ,

husband was deporte d to Puerto Prince ssa I desir e t o s : .

that this has ne v er been published It is a skeleto n in a close .

Q What would be the result if th e friars shoul d atte mpt


go back to their parishes


A I can not tell for a cer t ainty but I believe that it w o n
.
,
be fatal .

Q Don t you think that the people in the islands are since
.
'

Catholic s
A Yes s ir ; sincerely Catholi c ; an d if to day there are

. -
,

e w other reli gions gaining an entrance to the is lands the f an


f
h e s wholly at the door of the friars .

Q Do the people want educati on


.

A I should say so ; yes s ir


.
They are v ery anxious , .

have it .

Q Would they like e ducation in English


.

A If it w e re possible i n all languages


. The proof , .

thi s fact 1 8 see n in the tremendous atte ndance at the nig


schools whi ch have recently been opened t o give instruction
.

Engli sh A large number of persons wh o would like to att e1


.

are unable to do so because they have t o work hard to gain


,

livelihood for their parents who are unable to work , .

Q Do they have to work night s


.

A Yes ; some of them ; like man v of the small wate


.

car ri ers and shoemakers .

118
T/z e Sen a t e Docum en t d Roma n zs m
'

an

We inte nd t o give as much opportunity as we can to those


ni ght schools and to enlarge them We have application for .

another n o w an d we are going to e stablish it We are con


,

fronted in startin g an e x ten d ed sy stem of education all through


.

t h e is l ands with this difficulty : Unde r the American system of


government there is a complete separation of church and state
the church conducts its anair e and the people pursue religious ,

worship as they please On the other hand the church has no .


,

influence with the st ate and the state i s not p e r mi te d t o furnish ,

religions instr uction t o the youth o f the country We e n c oun


ter a feeling h e re manife sted through the Jesuits an d per
.

, , ,

haps people generally that they are opposed to a system of e d


, ,

uc at i o n wit hout instruction i n the Catholic religion I n order .

to meet that objection it has been suggest ed that we should ,

have public schools in which no religion is taught by the public


school te acher but we should g ive authority t o have religious
,

instr uction of these people with the c o n sent o f their parents ,


half an hour b e fore the schoo l hour and half an hour aft er
wards but not make it obligatory I would like to know your
, .

opinion as to how that would work , and would satisfy the feel
in g among the Catholics that they must unite religious instruo
tion with education ? It is not even necessary to have any r e
l igi o us i nst r uction at all in the public schools because all the ,

people o f the Philippines are deeply religious from a Cath olic


standpoint ; this is deep rooted in th eir hearts an d they dr ink -
,
'
it in with their in o t h e r s milk and they know no instruction in ’
,

i n school They c an get all the instruction they ne ed in matters


.

religious from their own parents or their own homes .

Q Then you think it better n o t to attempt that other ?


.
.

A Entirely for the pe e p le o f the country are naturally r e


. ,

l igio us To show how deep roote d this religion is it has b e


. ,

come a fanaticism .

Q How woul d it work out in t his way Suppose we estab


.

lish good public schools pay te acher s well and have a good , ,

system not like the old and suppose the church were to say or
, , ,
,

the churc h authorities were to say You cannot send your ,

c hildren to these scho o ls becau s e there is no religion taught i n .

th em ” w here would the people stand in an instruction like


,

that ?
A The Filipino people would flock t o where they could ge t
.

instruction irrespective o f what the p riests should wish


,
.

Q Would it n o t affect the standing of the priest s very


.

much and the influence of the priests whoever they are if it , ,

be comes known to the people as it must become known that , ,

the only way the priests can b e paid is by the voluntary contri
"

butions o f the people an d that the priests will exercise no polit


,

ical f uc t i o n s whate ver and if as now ,under General Order No , ,


.

40 and as it probably will be under any ot her law they are de


,
,

nied the right t o hold ofli ce ? Aft er three o r four years wi ll not
that very much change the view o f the people as to the impor
tance o f who the priests are in the town ?
A No sir ; I believe that the priests could still continue t o
. ,

l ive t hrough t h e v o lu n tary contribu t ions of the people C u .

~doubtedly the infl uence they may have wi elded i n a political


natural y disappear ut t hey would have consider
B
way would l ,

11
T/ze Sen a t e Doc umen t

Roma n zr m
‘ '

ana

able r eligious infl uence because when t h e Filipin o is g iven lib


,
.

e r t y o f action and freedom of c onsci en ce and is at libert y t o


choose any re ligion as th e Catholic is th e o ne he knows or
,

car e s to know he would remain a Catho lic ; and if the priest


,

would say : I am bere ft of the support o f an y government .

an d I have to live upon voluntary contr ibut ions t h e majo r ity


"
,

o f t h e people would gl adly provide them w it h money and make


good donations to them .

.
Q You have not gotten what I want Let us assume that .

the friar went back If he were deprived of his political func


.

tions and dependent upo n people for contributions o n which to


live would not his position be very much changed from what
,

it was before ? Not that I mean t hat a friar i s going back but ,

let us assume it In other word s would it not draw his fangs ?


. ,

.A Yo u have t o pro c ee d from the hypothesis that t he great


mass of the people here are ignorant and i f a friar goes back
and goes to work on that ignoran c e he i s possessed of th e dex
,

t e r i ty and cleverness t o make it re dound to his credit and t o


get money and you must r e me mp e r that ignorance is all per v ad
,
-

i n g here In a pueblo there may be 20 men who are educat ed


.
,

and the fr iars working upon that i gnorance would get up slow
ly but ce rtainly a feud between the e ducated and the ig no l
rant.

Q What would be the effect if t h e govern ment were t o


'
.

make a contract with the friars or by condemnation were to buy ,

the property of the friars and sell it out to the te nants in


s mall divisions and use the money for a school fund ?
.A A very favorable result would ensue from that and ,

t h ere would be general conte ntment .

Expressions of thanks .

I NT E R V I EW W I T H MAXI M O V I O LA O F .

SAN M I GU EL DE MA YU MO .

O CT O BER 20 1 9 00 , .

Q Were you born in th e Philippines ?


.

A Yes . .

Q In what part of the isla n ds have you lived ?


.

A Except the ti me I spent in Europe to finish my educa


.

tion ( a little over four years) I have lived nearly the whole time ‘

in the pr ov in ce o f Bulacan .

Q About what is your age ?


'

A I am 43 years old
. .

Q What is your profession ?


.

A I am a physician
. .

Q Yo u studied in Fran ce ?
.

A Principally in Spain alt hough I h ave been in Fran ce


. ,
,
G e rmany and Austr ia .

Q What years Were you in Vienna ?


.

A In the year 1 88 7
.
.

Q Have you practiced your profession i n Bul acan ?


.

A I have practic ed my profession constantl y from the lat


.

ter part of 1 88 7 until 1 89 4 in Bulacan when through per e c eu ,

tions of the friars I was driven to Manila where I re mained ,


1 20

T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t Roma n zr m
'

ana

authority w ere ele cte d by the people who mh e d id not desire to


hold oni ce he would for subordinate o fli c e r s appeal t b the pro
, , ,

v i n cial governor an d for these governors to the governor gen


,
-

eral and state that if t hese officers who had been electe d were
,

permitted to as sume their o fii ce s that the public orde r would bi


endanger ed because they w ere Mas o n s o r any other GDQCIOUI
, h

argu ment would be advanced so as to make the superior author


ities set at naught the will o f the people and ap po in t wh oeve l ,

might be thoug h t suitable or friendly to the friar ; but o f ten


'

this was not ne cessary as the friar would so wield the election!
,

as to get only those to vote who were his blind followers H r .

performed the duties of lieutenant o f the civil gu ard by de


man ding of every pers on who came to him t o be either man ia
or t o have a child baptized o r for burial their ce dul a wh icl , , ,

he would retain until such a time as the fee s we r e p aid an d ,

then he would report the person whose ce dula he had retained


t o the lieutenant of t h e civil guard as being without a cedula
and he would be j aile d until such time as he should get ano t h el
ce dula .

Q Wha t was the morality of the parish priests ?


.

A There was no morality If I was to rehearse the whole


. .

histo ry it would be in te rminable ; but I shall confine myself t c


concrete cases beginning with the vows o f chastity wh icl
, ,

everyone knows they h ave t o take Up o n this point it wer< .

better to consult t h e chil d ren o f friars in every town when


t here are at least four o r fiv e or more who have cost their moth ,

ers many bitter tears for having brought them into the world 1

not only because o f the dishonor but also because o f the nu ,


.

me r o us deportations brought about by the friars to get rid o i


them T h e vow of poverty is also loudly commented o n by t h e
.

fact that in every town however poor it may be the convent is , ,

the finest building whereas in Europe o r elsewhere the school


,

house is the finest building With regard t o other little .

caprices o f the friars I might say th a t whenever a we alth) ,


r esident of the to wn is in his death throe s the F ilipino co ad -


~
,

jut or of th e fria r is never permitted to go to his bedside an d


confess him the Span ish fr iar always goes and there he paints
,
,

to the penite nt the to rments of hel l an d the consequences of an


evil life thu s adding to the ter rors o f the deathbed He al s o
, .

state s h is soul may be saved by donating either real o r per sonal


property to the church There are hundr eds o f donations o f .
_

this kind which still exist For i nstance in the town o f Bigau .
, ,

the altar i n the ch urch is of silver a donation from the Co m ,

s t an t in e family
; and in San Miguel th e silver altar is a donation
_

from the family of Don Ce f an n o de L eo n the grandfather hav ,

ing donate d money sufficient t o pay for it o n his deathbed ; and ,

if t h e patient dies the family is compel led to have a most ex


pen sive funeral w ith al l the incidental ex penses which go to
,

the church or be threatened with deportation o r imprison ment ;


,

and if the dead person is a pauper and h as naturally not h ing to ,

pay w ith or if he is a servant or a tenant the master or em


,
,

ployer has to pay or he will be deported as happened to m


brother ln law Moises Santiago who was a phar macist an dy
, .

- -

, ,
,
was d eported i n the month o f November 1 89 5 because he did , ,

not pay t h e funeral expenses of the son of the female servant


1 22
T/ze Sen a t e D ocum en t d Roen a n zr en

' '

an

in his house The fat he r o f t h i s ch ild was a l aborer and had


.
,

funds s umc ien t to defray the burial e x penses and the friar w as ,

so informed by my brother in Jaw and the y said they had noth-

ing t o do with that and that he was his mas ter an d would have
,

t o pay o r s ufie r the consequences which he did I myse lf came . .

very near being d epor te d under the following circumstan c es

A woman heavy with child died in the fifth mon t h of gestation .

The friar curate demanded that I should per form the ( ar s ar ian "

operation upon the corp se in order to b aptize t h e i mi a s I de


. .

c li n e d t o perform t h e operation becau s e I had a wound i n my ,

finger and feared blood poisoning He told me it was my duty .

to m y self and t o my conscience to perfor m the operation i n or -

der that he might baptize the f oe t us ; and I told him my con


science did not so impel me and I declined to do it and he said , , ,


Take care .Those t wo word s were su fficie n t to send me
hurriedly to Manila where I remained fro m 1 89 5 the year i n
, ,

which this occurred to 1 8 9 9 If the dy in g p er son is a pauper


, . ,

with n o o n e to pay fees the Spanish friar does not go to con


,

fess him b ut sends the Filipino and wh en he dies without


, ,

buri al fees his corpse is often allowed t o r o t and there have ,

been many cases where the sacristans o f the church have been
ordered by the fr iar to hang the co rpse publicly so that the '
,

relatives may be thus co mpelled to see k the fees somewhere


s ufil c i e n t t o bury the corpse .

Q W ha t proportion o f t h e friars do you think violated


.

thei r vows o f celibacy ?


A I d o not know of a s ingle one of all those I have known

in the province of B ulacan who has not viol ated his vow of cel
.

i b ac y . The ver y large m ajority of the mestizos in the interior


are sons o f fri ars
Q D oes a hostility exist among the people agains t the
.

friars ?
A A great deal If you were to ask t h e inhabitants o f t h e
. .

Philippines one by one that question they would all say the
, , .

same — that they hate d the friars ; because t here is scarce ly a


per son livin g here who has not in one way or another suffered , ,

at th eir hands .

W h at is th c h ief ground o f that hostility ?


Q . e
A The despotism and the immorality
.
.

Q .
Had other cases than the immora l ity not existed do y ou ,

think the immorality was sufficient ?


A Yes ; that would be a s uffic ient cause f or the si mple rea
. ,

son that the i mmorality brings as a natural consequence in its


train despotismintimidation and force t o carry o ut their d e
, ,

sires and designs ; f o r all may be reduced to thi s that the F il ,



did not h w his head in acquiescen c e h ad it cut o il
i p i n o wh o o

from his shoulders .

In other words this was only a manifestation of t he


Q . ,

power they exercised ove r t h e people That was o n e end .

toward which they used their power ?


A Immorality was the chief e n d
.
.

Q .
What have you to s ay o f the morality o f the native

priests ?
A They blindly
.
obeyed w hateve r the friar says ; the y n ave

neither individual will nor thought .

1 23
T/zefl Sen a t e Documen t an d R omun zcm
Q Are they also loose in their relations with women ?
.

A Many of them also From my o wn personal experience


. , .

I think all the priests and friars are on the same level I have .

never seen one that was pure I don t deny there may be ex .

c e p t i o n s but I have not seen them


,
The large m aj ority have .

violated their vows of celibacy and chasti t y For this reason I .

belie ve that Protestantism will have a very good field h ere for ,

o n e reason alone and that is that the Prote stant ministers


,

marry a n d that will eradicate all fear of attacks upon the Fili
,

pino families on their part .

Q What education and preparation for the discharge o f


.

their duties have the native priests ?


A They are sufficiently well educated to discharge their
.

sacred o flil c e s but heretofore they have been overshadowed by


,

the friars and prevented from e xercising their o wn discretion


in the m anagement of the parishes .

Q What do you think about the p o s s ib ili t y o f establishing


'

a system of public educati on without any religious instruction


in it ?
A That would be satisfactory to the people because the
. ,

Catholic religion is very deep rooted here and t h e parents would ,

always bring the children up in that religion no matter wh e t h ,

er i t was taught in the schools or elsewhere The fact i s f t h at .

until t h e y ar r i v e at years of discretion and allow their own


/ ,

consciences to control them the Catholic religion will al ways ,

prevail in these islands .

Q What do you think would be the e fie c t of the buying of


.

th e haciendas o f the religious orders by the government and ,

selling them out in small parcels to the present ten ants ?


A That would give very good results and if the proceeds
.
,

of these funds were ap plied to a fund f o r public schools it ,

would be a matter for which the Filipino people all of them , ,

would be very grateful .

Expressions of thanks .

I NT E R V I E W W I T H DR . T . H PA RO . DE
T A V E RO .

O CT O B E R 2 3 1 9 00 , .

Q How long have you lived in the Philippine Islar d s


.

A I was born in the Philippi n e Islands and left here s ix


.

teen years o f age .

Q A n d when did you return


.
I
'
.

A I was ab s ent twenty years returnin g here in the year


.
, .

Q You are by p r o f e s s io n a phy sician and you were pur


.
,

suing y our s tudies as such abroad


A Yes sir I was pursuing my medical studies in Paris
.
, .

b ut while I was in Paris I did not lo s e a n y of the happenings


, _

of my country , for I have always followed them with a very “

clo s e e y e I have followed them politically socially and hi s


.
, ,

t o r i c ally .

Q Have y o u had a good deal of opportunity personally to


.

know the friars


1 24
T/ze Sen a te Documen t ’
Roma n zr m

an a

A They did not co nfine their influence to their ecclesiasti


.

cal functions and to un d erstand this it will be nece ssary t o


,

form an idea o f the political make up o f Spain In America -


. ,

the d ifier e n t religions have nothing to do with the state In '


.

Spain the religion and the state are o n e an d the s a me thing


,
.

To give a better idea it would be well t o bring to mind the old


p o n t ifical state where th e Pope was the head of the church and
,

state and that was Spain The King o f Spain in order to avoid
, . .

any d ifli cult ie s with Rome had caused himself to be gi ven the
ri ght of royal patronage whereby the King of Spain bec ame a
,

sort of authority in the church If there ar e s o me states which


.
,

separate church and state t o avoid complications with Rome ,

Sp ain join ed the ch urch and state for the very same purpose .

Q How much politica l power did the friars exerci se in the


.

countr y p ar ls h e s
A I t flows from t h i s e x p lan at i on that the Spaniard could
.
,

ne ver separate himself from the influe nce which the church had
upon him and the result of that was that the friars wielded all
,

the in fluence political and ecclesiastical in the parishe s I do .

not refer now to th e mor al influence of the fr iar be ca u s e the ,

friar cu r ate h ad to put his vi s e or O K on every administr ati ve . .

document that was issued such as census docume nts, etc and
, . ,

personal re commendati ons of every individual within his juris


dicti on who desired t o take a public o fli c e His Opinion was .

sought upon every con ceivable sub ject I say this so as to .

avoi d going into too many details This placing his 0 K o n . . .

all these documents was not in respons e to any instruct ions or


dutie s but just because it suited his sacerdotal pleasure I b e
, .

lieve that is the political influence which it is sought to get at


in the que s tion .

Q Was it generally understoo d that th e friars as a body


.

exercise d much political influence in the ce ntral government


A I should say so
.
For from the time o f their ar rival here
.

they were the only ones who treate d with the Indians They
c
.

were the only interpreters betwee n them and the government .

Moreover it may be said that there was no contin uous ad min i s


,

t r at i v e policy as regards this colony At one time the he ad o f .

the colony would be here and govern in one way and he would ,

be superseded by another who would govern in another way i n -

othe r words there was n o set policy On the Ot h er hand in


, .
,
these monastic corporations the men died but the principles .

and the g overnment went o n forever and therefore they per , ,

force governed the country because t hey follo wed t rad iti onal
,
,

lines without chan ge .

Q T h e i n d iv id ual s m the church hier archy remained a great


‘ ‘

de al lon ger than the individuals in the civil government


.

A For the simple reaso n that they h ave always vaunted the
.

f c t t at they expelled anyone in the civil government that they


pn h
ease i
Q Have you much per sonal knowledge of the morality o r
.

immorality of the friars


A I ought t o draw a distinction for in the American se nse
.

of the word immoralit y it embraces several departures from


the right path while in the Filipino se nse it si mply meant sexual
,

departures from morality Larce ny robbery etc were an .


, , .
,
1 26
T/ze Sen a t e D ocumen t ana
"
Roma n zr m
o t h er kin d o f im mora lity T h e friars had g r eat n otoriety as .

imm o ral men in the Fil i pino sense It was so common that .

h ardly any notice w a s taken o f it: Some of the younger friars


said it was me r ely human weakness but nevertheless with that , ,

pecul i ar Spanish sp i rit they prided themselves upon these facts ,

Q It is not true that they were all immoral ?


.

A Oh b y n o means
. ,
/
.

Q There were some who were very well educated and r e


.

fined and who obey ed their vows were there not ? ,

.A Yes ; and many especially among the Dominicans were , ,

o f that kind .

Q Did the common people n o t accept this thing as a matter


.

o f fact and not regard it as a reason in one way or t h e other


,

for influencing their feelin g against the friars


A Of course. .

Q What was the real ground for the feeling of the people
.

ag ai n s t s h e friars
A I have before said that friars were the sovereigns o f the
.

country They did everythin g so that as t h e country was dis


.
, ,

sati s fied with the condi tions that prevailed with the injustice , ,

persecutions and abuses o f eve r y kind they hated the friar b e


, ,

cause they saw in the friar the responsible head of all airs At .
_

the beginnin g the friar was the protector of the Ind ians and ,

the Indians were governed by t h e friars and accepted un q ue s


t i o n ab ly every o n e o f his acts b u t afterwards when they began ,

t o s uii er the consequences of every kind of abuse on the part of


the friars the y b egan to think where all these hardships and
,

g rievances came from and they discovered that they came from ,

the friars and there was a regular torrent of hatred against


,

them .

Q As representative of the opinion against the Span ish ?


.

A As representatives and the source The fact is if the


. .
,

Philippines had been a country governed with just ice the friars ,

would have e r jo ye d the g lory o f it but as i t has been miserably ,

exploited , they mus t b e ar the responsibility This is very his



-
'

.
.

t o r i c al In Malolos for instance the municipal authorities


. , ,

were expelled b e c aus e t h e y were not favorable to the friars and l

were n o t r e lig i o us , and I have here a letter o f the governor


general i n which he makes that charge and I will add that the ,

man wh o se n t this let ter Ramon Blanco was a free thin ker and . ,
-

a liberal man .

Q D oyou think that the friars were responsible or other


. ,

wise for the deportation o f a good many people


,

A O h yes It i s entirely beyond doubt from the Calamba


.
,
.

case the Binondo feast at this very time o f the year in 1 88 7


,
,

and the expulsion of the municipal auth orities at Malolos .

Q What
. d o y o u think of the native p r ie sts as compared
with the friars
A Th ey are as ignorant as immoral and have all the same
. ,

defe cts and vice s as the friars as they were educated by the ,

friars .

Q Have they less education ?


.

A Perhaps a little l e ss
.
.

Q What d o you th ink would be the resul t generall y if th e


.

friars attempted to go back to their p arishes ?


1 27
Sen a t e Documen t ’
Roma n zr m

T/ze an a

A I have heard many persons say that they would as s as s i


.

nate any friars who ret urned .

Q I have heard it said by people whose opport uni ti es f or


.

obse r vati on on one side of the q uestion would be fairly g ood ,

that this opposition to the friars is due to the native priests and
to a f e w men in each village an d t h at it does not permeate the
'

. .

mass of the peop le To the Katipunans .

A I would like to ask those persons who have expressed


.

this opinion h o w many men they think belonged t o the Kati


,

punans In the Tagalog provin ce s alone there were over 2 00


. ,

00 0 and it must be remembered that these members of Kati


,

punan soc iety not only had resolved to attack the fr iar s b ut ,

also t o go into a revolution in which the y e xposed t heir lives ,

and there were man y other enemies of the friars in t h e pueblos


who were not h old enough to ente r into the K atipunan society ;
so I do not believe the number of the enemies of the friars is
so sm all .

Q You think then it does go through the masses of t h e


.
, ,

people
A I believe so There are exceptions no t ably in th e
. .
,

province s of Pangasinan and Ilocos where the friar s kept the ,

people in absolute ignora nce and they re specte d them like ,

priests whose actions they never dared t o discuss and I bel ieve ,

it is to those provi nce s that the fr iars desire to make an e flo r t


to return .

Q We ar e not permitted t o pay anybody to teach religion


.

as a part o f the public school syste m Now we can either e s .

t abl i s h public schools in which no religion is taught at all o r , [

we can permit the Catholic priest or anyone selected by him t o


come there for a half an hour or an hour as he may see fit once , ,

every day or once every week t o give religious inst r uct ion to
the children of parents who desire i t either before or after , ,

school hours What do you th ink of t hese two syste ms and


'

.
,

which would be the bette r


A The l att er is the better
. To al low them t o come To . ' .

permit any minister to come .

Q That is what I intend but naturally it will be the Cat h o


.
,

lic m iniste r in ninety nine cases out of a hundred


-
.

A It must b e b orne in mind that the people of these islands


.

have been used to having everything explained to them through


proclamations public documents and circulars and the thing
, , ,

that ought to be done in this instance is t o thoroughly explain


the matte r bef or ehand letting them know that th e govern men t
,

is no t to give religious instruction but t hat the people are at ,

perfect libert y t o liste n to relig ious i nstr uction from the priests
t hat they themselves may se lect t o give it .

Q What do you think would be t h e e flec t of the govern


.

ment s conde mning the agricultural property of the friars and


s elling it out in small parcels using the proceeds for a school ,

fund
A I believe it would be excellent The Filipinos as a
'

.
.

Wh ole believe it is so excellent a thing that t hey d on t believe ’

it can hardly happen I am now re ferring to the ignorant .

pe ople .

Expr essions o f than ks .

1 28
T/ze S en a t e D ocum en t an d Rema n ifl n
it in form by the usual questions and an swers— that is briefly , .

A The first state ment contains my o wn p erso nal answers ;


.

t h e second document which I presented to Don Esteros the , ,

sub se cr etary of t h e c ol o n ie s o f Spain is a collection of his


-
'

t or i cal data first proving that the Philippines never belonge d


, ,

to Spain in any way ; and se c ond that the fri ars would never ,

o bey the civil authorities


. and that ecclesiast ically t hey wer e ,

all b r e aki ng their vows It is filled with citati ons in support o f


.

my assertions from historie s written by the friars themselves .

I have drunk from no other source The last document is a


re futati on based upon the work of a Jesuit reviewin g th e as
.

se rtion of an Augustinian friar that the Fili pinos were all bad
and that that the friars were always their friends These doc .

ume n t s all prove that from the t ime of the very fir st governor
gen eral in the Philippines down to the last that th e friars were , ,

always the same .

Q Do you k now definitely what proper ty the fr iars o wn


.

here ? If y ou do not know e xcept generally I Will n o t trouble ,

you to answer for I have other means of getting t hat answer


,
.

A I h ave mention ed some in my manuscript I cannot an


. .

swer except generally .

Q What political functions did the friars actually exercise


.

in the pueblos ?
A All without exception Even those which the governor
gen eral was not able t o exerci se One of the most terrible
. .
,

.
(

arms th at the friars wielded in t h e provinces was the secret ia


ve s t ig at i o n and report upon the private life and conduct of a
person For instance if someone had mad e accusat ion s against
. ,

a re sid ent of a pueblo and l aid them before t h e governor ge n -

eral he would have private instr uctions sent t o th e cur ate of


,

the town to investigate and report upon the private life of that
resident stating that he had been charged with conspiring
,

against t h e Span ish s over eig nty This resident was h av ing h is .

pri vate life inves ti gated without an y notice t o him whatev er .

and in a secret way and the report was always sent secre tly to
.

the governor gener al ; and he might be the i ntimate friend of


-

the governor of the province o r of the g o b e r n ad o r c illo o f t h e ‘

town or of the commander of the civil guard in his town He . .

w ould render reports favorable t o him but notwithstan din g .

this the govern or general would receive the secret report of the
friar and act upon it For instance there have been many cases
.
,

i n pueblos where a lar ge numbe r of the inhabitants have atte nd


ed a feast in honor of the birthday of the governor o f the pr ov
ince and have part aken o f h i s hospitality being intimate friends ,

of his and three or four days later nearly all of them have been
,

arr ested and imprisoned charged with be ing conspirators ,

against the life o f the governor and against the continuance of


\

t h e Span ish so vereignty through secret information rece ived .

from the friar curate, This is the secret of their great political
influence in the country for from t h e governor general down
'

-
,

t o the lowest subordinate of the Sp anish government t hey ,

feared the influence of the friar at home which was ver y great , ,

owin g e i th e r t o social position there or to power of money here


'

and I myself have s een s everal o fli c er s of high rank in the army


and ofli cial s of prominence under the government se nt back
1 30
T/ze Sen a t e Doc um en t d Roma n zr m

an

long before their times o f service had e xpired at the instigation ,

o f the friars For instance the governor general De s p ujo l


. -
, , ,

who was an upright honest and jus t man and who only r e ,
-

mained here fifteen months be c ause he showed his fr iendship


for the Filipino ; and I desire t o add that no man has treate d
me more h arshly than D e s pujo l on the ground that I was a , .

Mason and he was a very ardent Catholic ; but n otwithstanding


his ardent Catholicism he only stayed here fifteen months .

Q What do you k now as t o the morality o f the f r iars ?


.
.

A I have already rel ated in my statement a few cases, and


.

I would prefer to ans wer the q uestion by saying that the details
o f the immorality of the friars are so base and so indecent .

that instead of smirching the friars I would smirch myself by


r elating them .

When I was a boy of seven years o f age on the opposite ,

side o f the street fr om my house t wo ladies lived They were .

F ilipinos and I noticed two little children there and I would


, ,

ask my mother and the servants why it was that they were
prettier than we o r anyb o dy in the town and I was told that the .

friar would know ; and I learned he had as his mistresses two


s isters living under o n e roof and that these children were the ,

children o f either o n e o r both o f them ; and this was d ene pub


li c ly for leaving o ut the qu e stion of his avowed celibacy and
,

chastity he had broken another vow which would not permit


,

anyone to marry a deceased wife s sister and he re this man ’


,

Was living with t wo sisters at the same time .

Q Do y o u think all the friars were like that ? Were there


.

n o t some who obeyed their vows an d were virtuous an d lived

p iou s lives ?
A I have already referred to that in my statement for I
.
,

d esire to be j ust under all circumstances Before replying fur


ther to this question I shou d like to complete the answer to


, l

the last In the q uarters of the town f arth est removed from
.

the centre the family life is purer There may be a few cases
, . .

o f concubinage but there are comparatively very f e w while in


, ,

the centre of the towns the cases of this kind are very n umer
o us as are also robbery and other cr imes
, In a word it can b e .
,

truthfully said that the morality o f the Filipino people becomes


looser and looser as it nears the neighborhood of the convent .

In answer to the second question I may say that there are ,

exceptions but they are unfortunately very few I recall one


, .

instance o f the friar curate o f Apalit in Pampanga who was , ,

named Gamarra and wh o was an upright and thoroughly reli


,

gio n s man He would marry all those who were living in con
.

c ub i n ag e free ; he would bury the poor free and perform many ,

charitable and Christian acts and would stand between the ,

authorities and the un j us t ly accused The fact is that while .

he was the curate there was n o t a single deportation He v is J .

itea the sick he comforted all those who came to him in trouble ;
,

he was in a word a pure Christian minister o f G o d but as he


, . ,

was the o n e shining light amid the darkness o f those who sang
in chorus the airs of immorality he was through their machina ,

tions brou g ht to Manila and placed in charge o f a convent ; but


this was done s o as n o t to in j ure h i s feeling s in any way or
make him believe that there was an yt h in g behind t he removal .

1 31
Roma n zs m

T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t
'

ana

Q There were other ins t ance s ?


.

A In that same pueblo of Apalit which has been very for


. ,

t unat e in this regard there was another fr iar curate of t h e same


,

character but unfortunately I cannot recall his name at this mo


,

ment There was also ano ther in the pueblo of Paombong


. ,

province of Bulacan whose name I also have forgotten for the


,

moment but the fact is that they remained unfortuna te ly in


, , ,

their pueblos but a very short ti me The good fr iar never r e .

mains long in his field of work .

Q Do y ou k n o w much about the native clergy ?


'

A Q uite a go od deal
. .

Q Did each friar have with h im a native as sistant ?


.

A Not all o f them In the large to wns they did In th e


. . .

smaller town s they had none and in some o f th e ver y smalle st


'

, .

to wns they h ad neither friars nor secular clergy There are a .


very few nati ve priests now At one time there were quite a .

number but since the garrot ing of the three native priests in
'

,
-

1 8 72 because they requested t hat native priests be placed over


,

the our ac ie s there has been no ince ntive for natives t o ente r
,

the priesthood because th ey do not wish t o be treated as se r


,

vants and domineered over at a very small salary I remember .

a very wise Filipino who was made a bishop but unfortun ately ,

he became blind before assuming the episcopal chair H is


name was Mariam Gracia There have been a number of highly .

educated native priests in days gone by This man whom I .

mentioned by name had been a very deep student an d was a


very pious man He could even after becoming blind come
.
, ,

o ut of his h o us e un at t e n d e d enter his carriage get o ut and go


, ,

to the al tar say mass and return home again He had a ser
, , .

vant in his house who was studying Latin and so wonderful ,

was the memory o f this man that when the servant would say
that he wanted to look in the d ictionary for a word he would ,

te ll him it was on a certain page and on such a line but sin ce ,

1 8 72 the inc e nti ve to become a priest has entirely disappear e d .

This man was th e last Filip ino bishop Before h im t here h ad .

been many .

Q Are not t he present clergy infe rior i n that they have


.
,

not suffici ent education and t hat their morals are not unlike
those of th e friars with whom they associate d ?
A I have also answer ed those questions In the desire t o
. .

be just I h ave state d in my an swer that t h e prese nt Filipino


,

priest saving a very few exceptions has all the defects of th e


, ,

fri ar and none of his good points .

Q I wan t to ask whether the deep seate d hostility to the


. -

friars which many seem to entertain exte nds t o the mass e s of


th e peo ple ?
A While we who claim t o be s omewhat educated di s like
.

th e friar ,and would be unwilling to have h i m sud er what he


h as make us s ufier the masses w h o are unthinking to a certain
, ,

extent and who are but the beasts of burden and have there
fore s ufle r e d in a certain way more than the others are the ,

most uncompromising and the most vengeful ag ainst the


friars .

Q D o you think it would b e s afe for the friars to go back


.

t o their parishes ?
1 32
mk
'

Tae Sen a t e Docum en t an a



Rom a n zr

want t h e friar and being accustomed to hear at al l times in


,
.

classe s and out of classe s at home and away from home moral
,
.

and Christian prece pts and teachings the people have become ,

ab s ol utely accustomed to it They are further accustomed to .

pray at every moment before begin ning recitat ions in every


book and the Filipino children or their fathers wo uld like to
,

have it continued but they don t want the fr iar to have any
.

p art in it For this reason and because the Filipino people are
. ,

very conservative we will see in all their homes the e fll gie s of


,

saints either printed or painted and statues o f saints and the


, , ,

rosary being said at all hours an d let not libertas or the friar ,

lay the flattering unction to his soul that the large attendance
at the procession was due to him as he claims but only to that , ,

great conservatism and Catholicism which still exist in these


islands .

However a short time before the c o ming of the Americans


,

to these islands there was a group o f F ilipinos relatively small , ,

who were freethinkers and very much O pposed to Catholicism


,

Their numbers may be growing but not very appreciably up to ,

the present time My idea is that when the fathers of children


.
.

request it , instruction in religion from a Caih o li c s tandpoint


should be given their children in the public schools and that ,

when they are silent on this matter they should rec eive no reli
g io us ins truction whate ver One of the reas ons which has con
.

tributed to the separation and the keeping separate o f the Amer


i c an s an d the Filipinos is a proclamation issued just p r i or to ,

the arrival of the Americans by Ar chbishop No z al e d a in which , ,

he informed t h e faithful that the enemies o f our religion the ,

American heretics were about to appear among us This was


, .

printed in the Ecclesiastical Bulletin o f the archbishopric Let . ,

me insert here before I forget it that when we Filipinos refer


, ,

to the friars we do not mean all the mo n as t ic b o d ie s but only '


,

four of them — the Augustinians the Dominicans the Fran cis , ,

cans and the Re c o l e c t os The Jesuits are not disliked at all by


, .

the Filipinos because it may be said that they brought the first
,

instruction and education to the Filipinos and by the way the , ,


'

,
'

first ones who introduced j ackets of this kind which are c alled , .

Americana and educated t h e youth of the country having grad


, ,

uat e d the best scholars among the people here including Rizal ,

and many others .

Q What would be the result of that controversy that I


.

suggested ?
A Even now in the public schools under the American sys
.

tem a large number o f parents d o not send their chil d ren b e


,

cause religio n is n o t taug h t there ; and by reason of these facts


I have state d above they would have a certain suspicion of the
,

in te ntions of the American government abou t education .

Q If provision were made for religious instruction to be


.

given by any body appointed by the church for half an hour b e


fore and half an h o ur after school ho urs would that satisfy the ,

people ?
A It would n o t b e necess ary to devote half an hour every
.

day to that but following the cu stom under the Spanish rule
, ,

to de vote half an hour every Saturd ay to ecclesiastics I think .

t hat would s ufll ce However I be lieve that if the people at


.
,

1 34
T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t Roma n zr m

ana

large were inform ed fir st of what free instruction under A mer


ican insti t ution s is and that no religious instruction is to be
,

paid for by the gove rnment i n any way that good results would ,

flow from it ; but this must be made very cle ar beforehand to


the people
Q What do you think would be the e ffect of buying all the
.

lands of the friars to be sold to the tenants now on the lands


, ,

and to have the procee d s used as a school fund ?


A I think very good results would come of this if the pre
.

caution were taken be fore purchasing to fin d out what belonged


to the f r i ags because the great thing now is to fin d out what
,

they do own .

Expressions of t hanks .

I NT ERVI EW W I T H AM B RO SI A FL OR E S .

O C T O BE R 2 4 1 9 0 0 , .

Q How long have y o u been in the islands


.

A Al l o f my life for I have never left the islands


.
, .

Q In what provinces h av e you lived


.

A I n Manil a Vigan Lepanto Cavite Ceb u Zamboanga


J olo Paraqua Bulacan Pampanga Tarlac Pangasinan Nueva
.
, , , , , ,

, , , , , ,

E c ija .

O You were a general in the insurgent army


B
N Yes ; I was .

O How long were y o u in th at capacity


b
N I was a general from May 1 89 8 ,
, .

O I meant how long were you in the army


(

A I was a general in 1 8 9 8 and I afterwards discharged 8


. , .

c ivil o fii ce civil governor environs of Manila



, .

Q What were you doing before the revolution of 1 8 9 6


.

A I was a retired officer in the Spanish army


. .

Q Were you in the provinces you have named before or


.

after 1 8 9 6
A In some before and some afterwards A f te r 1 89 6 I was
. .

in the province s of Cavite Bulacan Pampanga Pang asman , , , ,

and Nueva Ecija '


.

Q Had you an opportunity before 1 8 9 6 to know the friars


.

and their relations to the people


A Although by n atural inclination and conviction I always
.

desired t o eschew close contact with the friars I have through , ,

the di scharge of military and civil duties been brought into ,

rather close contact with them . .

Q Do you know what actual authority o f a political charac


.

t e r they exercised be fore 1 8 96 in their parishes


, A The political functions t hey discharged officially in their
.

parishes were intervention and counsel in the local elections ,

reporting o n the capacity and conduct o f those elected and I , ,

might add i n this regard that this report was looked upon by ,

the superior authorities in Manila with f ar more con fiden c e than


upon the unanimous vote of the people ; con fidential reports r e
garding the private life o f the faithful in their p arishes which ,

were made upon the investigations by the friars without the


knowledge or intervention of civil authorities ; the 0 K i ng of
all documents demanded or issued by the civil authori ties with ,
1 35
T/ze Sen a t e Docum en t

R om a n zr m
'

ana

the single excep t ion of notarial docume n t s ; e xtra o fli c i ally they -

meddled in everything they me dd led in eve rythin g without ,

an y responsibilit y whatever t o anyone .

Q Is there a fe eling o f hostility or otherwise among the


.

people against the friars


A A g reat feeling o f hostility
. .

Q Does that affect educated people only o r the mass of the


.

people
A The feeling of animosity is common to all classes o f
.

society Durin g the Spanish rule among the lower classes it


.

w as not so noticeable because they could n o t express their ,

feelings but now it is very noticeable and is common to all


'

classes .

Q I have heard from a person hi gh in authori ty in the


.

church that the feeling against the friars is chiefly due to the
inciting by the native priests and that the body of the people ,

desired their return What is your opinion as to this .

A No sir ; that is not the fact because there are many


.
, ,

native priests who have incurred the ill feeling o f the people by -

reason of favoring the friars This may be caused by a fear o n .

the part of these native priests of the return of the friars but ,

the fact is very patent that there is a great deal of feeling


against them for espousing or apparently espousing the cause
of the friars .

Q Does the feeling against the friars differ in different


.

localities g

A There is a d ifie r e n ce undou btedly but it is due t o the


~

.
,

fact that in some provinces there is fanaticism carried to such


an extent like in Pangasinan for instance where the Domini
, , ,

cans have be e n able to k eep t h e people under the influence of


blind superstition and where they believe that the priest is a
veritable g o d and absolute ly impeccable ; but in the g reat ma
jor it y of the provinces the feeling of hatred against the friars
pe r meates all classes .

Q Do y o u know whether there are in these islands a great


.

many descendants of the friars


A Yes sir
.
, .

Q Is that generally understood


.

A Yes sir
.
. .

Q Do you know the persons and know who their fat hers
.

were
A I know several sons of fr iars but at this moment r e
.
,

member one I can furnish a long list of them but now I thi nk
.
,

o f but one .

Q Do you think the immorali t y was general or not


.

whether or not with a great many exceptions


A Yes there were exceptions but they were very rare
.
, , .

Q What was the g round of the hostility against the friars ?


.

A The reasons for this hostility were many


. In the first .

place the haughty overbearing despotic manner o f the friars


, , , .

Then the question of the haciendas because the condition s o f ,

their tenantry were very terrible Then there was the fact o f .

the fear which beset every man even those who through fear ,

were nearest t o the friars that i f his eyes should light upon his ,

wife or his daughter in an e n vious way that if he did not give


1 36

Roma n zs m
'

Tne Sen a t e Docum en t an a

some o f the States in the U n i te d S t a t e s ) give to the priests an


opportunity to instruct the children in reli gi on but afte r the .

regular school hours sho uld the parents of the children desire ,

it Do yo u think that would satisfy the people


.

A Yes that would satisfy them ; but I think an h our or an


.
,

half an hour for religious instruction every day is too much I .

think that one day a week would satisfy them I have thought .

a great deal upo n this matt er an d I have come to the con


e lusion that it would be wise to devote the morning of Thurs


day which is th e holiday here to religious instruction
, ,
.

Q Of course you understand that the government could


. ,

no t pay the p riest s o r any teacher appointed by them , t o give


,

this religious instruction That would be the work o f the .

Catholic church if it chose to employ a p er s o n for that purpo se


,
.

A I so understand and I bel ieve the Catholic church should


. ,

take that matter i n hand .

Q You und erstand that we are not here to make t hem any
.

thing b ut Cathol ics We w ant them to have the religion that


.

they desire to have .


x

A We already understand that


. As a matter o f fact dur .
,

i n g the late regime religion was taught here — rather I should ,

say was not taught because all that the pupils were taught was
, ,

to pray and to commit to memory the cate chism o f Father


Astete and nothing more There was no opening o f the mind
, .

to tr uths and what the people d esire would be a dedication of


,

certain hours in the week to religious instruction and rel igious


training upon a scientific basis so that those wh o had the ,

capacity could understand it .

Q You have mentioned the fact that the ownership of the


.

haciendas is one ground for the popular feeling against the


friars Was not that confined l argely to t h e provinces o f
Manil a Cavite Laguna de Bay and Bulacan perhaps Batang as
.

, , , ,

also
A That is true but as there are in numer able cases of this
.
,

hatre d th roughout all the islands ; it is a general feelin g and ,

i n these province s where the haciendas ar e situate d it is from


that fact more accentuate d .

Q Yes but I want to know if in those pr ovinces I have


.
,

named the feelin g did not par t ake of an agrarian spirit also
A Yes sir .
, .

Q What would the e ffect be if the government should be


.

a ble to buy the s e lands an d the haciendas of the friars and sell

them out in small par cels to the te nants o n the lands and devote
the proc eeds to establishing a school fund
A I t would be very well received by the people ; but if I
.

may be permitted to make a remark upon the subject of buying


lan ds I believe that in many cases the friars can n o t pr ove any
,

title Whatever to the lands in question thereby renderi ng it un ,

necessary to p urchase them .

Q Of cour se if they have n o title then the people who


.
, ,

really own them might contes t that title with them .

As to the statu te o f limitation In the American legis _


.

l ation as well as Spanish the plea o f prescription c a n be made


, ,

t o prevai l afte r the holding of property for many years ad


t ers ely ; but th e point that suggests itself in this connection is
1 38
T/ze Sen a t e D ocumen t

an d Roma n zr nz
'

that they have n o t held that land peace fully ; that if there has
been n o contention against the i r title o r against their holding
the land it is because o f the conditions that they create d which
prevented them from asserting their title .

( Expressions o f thanks ) .

I NTE R V IE W W ITH H . PH E LPS W H IT


MA R SH .

N O VE MBE R 3 , 1 9 00 .

Q . Will y o u pleas e state your n ame


A . H Phelps Whitmarsh
. .

Q . And whe re you were born 1’


A . In Canad a — Med oc Canada , .

Q . Are you a citizen of the Unite d State s 7


A . Yes ; my father is an Amer ican .

Q . Your profession is what


A . Writer and journ alist .

Q . What periodicals or journ als have you corr esponded


for
A Mainly t h e Century A tl an tic Month ly and Outlook
.
, , .

Q How long have you been in the Philippines 7


.

A I have been in the Philippine s about thirteen months


Q D uring the thirteen months o f your stay have you
. .

visited a great many different towns


A Yes a great many I have b een all through the part of
. , .

the archip elago occupied by the American tro ops and a good
deal of that not occupied .

Q Have yo u come into contact with the inhabitants 7


.

A I have lived practically with them


. .

Q Have’ you a kn owledge of Spanish s ufli c ien t to converse


.

with them i
A Yes ; I c an t alk with them I learned tha t in Cuba
. . .

Q And your living with th em an d going among them was


.

t o observ e their habits views an d opin ions , , .

A Yes ; for that an d nothin g else


. .

Q I want to ask you t o direct your atte ntion t o their views


.

o f ecclesiastical matters At the ti me you were with t hem wh o


.
,

was conducting the religious functions if any i n the majority , ,

o f cases i

A In Luzon generally the rel igious functi ons were con


. , ,

ducte d by t h e Fil ipino pr iests but I think I c an not say in the


majority o f ca se s for in the Visayas Mindanao an d Jolo t here
,

, , ,

were no priests
Q D id you talk with the people o f their’sentiments to ward
.

t h e parish priests under the Spanish r e g imc i


A I did . .

Q’ What did you fin d their fe eling to be with respect t o


.

t hem i
A I think with o n e exception which s t ands out because it
i s an e x ception the people always declare themselves to be n ot
. ,

in favor of having the friar s back


Q D id they state the r easons
.

A They told me lots of st o ries about the friars


. .

1 39
T/z e Sen a t e Docum en t d Roma n zs m

an

Q Were they the common people


.

A Yes ; the very common e s t people


. A l l are very bitte r .

except one town o f northern Luzon T h ey are ve r y bitter an d .


'

I have al way s asked them as t o this matter .

Q What grounds did they g ive for their hostility


.

Mainly that the pries t held them under oppressed them , ,


robbed them and that they used their women an d daughters
,

just as they pleased .

Q Did they specify the methods of oppression


.

A I can not re member distinct instances just now


.
.

Q Did you hear o f instances of deportation through the


.

agency of the prie s t


A Yes ; I have heard that n obody was allowed
.
in certain
sections t o go away from the town withou t the permit o f the
fri ars and that the friar often sent him away and they were
,
,

unde r the thumb of the friar .

Q H ow did the friar rob them ?


.

A He robbed them in the vicinity of the railroads by f o r c


.

ing the people to sell t h eir rice to h i m at the prices which the
friar made and not allowing the people to send their own prod
,

uc t t o the market

. .

Q Was there anything said about the fees which were


.

charge d for religious funct ion s ?


A Yes ; I heard a r eat man y complaints about that They
.
g .

were usually made according t o a man s station The friar ’

charged what he pleased and if he s aid a certain sum w


.

,
as
nec
essary that sum had to be p aid or he would not conduct the
,

burials e tc
'

.
,

Q W hat did you hear as to the mo r ali t y o f the priests ?


'

. .

A Nothing that was good w ith few exceptions


.
, .

Q Were you referred to instances where the ille itimate


.

g
sons of the friars were k now n ?
A Yes ; there w as scarcely a town that I did not either see
.

or hear of the children of friars .

Q Did you hear anything as t o the moral ity o f the native


.

priests ?
A Yes. .

Q What as to that ?
.

A As a rule that they were not much better in


.

morality .
regard to

Q Could you not infer therefore that had those acts


.

of