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Triode - how come grid is “more negative” than cathode?

This is probably the most lame question of all the time here, but... I cannot understad grid-cathode "negative" polarization. For me,
grid is always positive to the cathode. I mean, in practice, cathode is just GND or 0V, while grid gets voltage larger than zero and
never goes below zero. So how come it has negative voltage comparing to cathode?

Let me show you how I understand a triode operating.

This is the most basic grid-cathode polarisation example and it does make some sense for me. We have reference 0V and this is
cathode electron emitter, but we also have a battery connected below zero:

This example "seems legit" - cathode is connected to 0V but grid has own battery that provides voltage which is (theoretically) below
zero*.

However, in real life no such battery exists, and there's just one 0V/GND point, common both for cathode and input signal.

What's more, the input voltage changes from 0 to 1V (not from -1V to 0V) in my example, so... how does the tube even work? It
should not pass possitive voltages through the grid at all and the tube shouldn't work. But it does:

The resistor is of course the key, however it never drops input voltage BELOW 0V because there is no "below zero" point in the circuit.
The ultimate zero is just zero, the same 0V point cathode emitts electrons from.

Or is it and I'm just unable to see it?

*) for me in this example grid voltage is stil positive over the cathode :/

The cathode has a coating that. Thinking of how a thermocouple works DOES help. that kind of thing) also does not help here.are you kidding. So now we have a grid with more electrons than it started with. Later always a resistor was used as a grid bias. basic vacuum-tube tube asked Apr 5 '17 at 23:44 emroe 25 5 Are you claiming that the first circuit is somehow working? Also have you measured in the first circuit that the node you claim to be 0V is really 0V? – Envidia Apr 5 '17 at 23:59 2 "However. Replace. and many erstwhile explanations expect you to push the "I Believe" button and go on. because. you get current flow without an external battery. If it were not for the resistor between grid and ground(cathode) the electrons would keep accumulating. In that sense. in real life no such battery exists" .. possibly helpful. The key to understanding how grid-leaking biasing works is to dig deep into the physics of how a tube works. Your schematic shows one particular type. so they are constantly bleeding off. it does seem magical: How can the grid get negative with respect to the cathode. nothing is attracting them (compared to plate B+). JFET operation becomes intuitive. Grid-leak biasing is by far the hardest to understand. creates a cloud of electrons around it..through the resistor and back to the cathode. understanding one helps to understand the other.. The heater heats the cathode. comments. Every battery can do this.that is how anode current is controlled . – Chu Apr 6 '17 at 15:00 1 Never seen a grid bias battery? – Brian Drummond Apr 6 '17 at 19:38 @BrianDrummond I saw . Just a few. Thinking of a tube as a resistor network (e. answered Apr 7 '17 at 11:05 Michael Gorsich 181 6 The biasing model for a triode and the N-channel JFET are the same (albeit realised in a different way) so if one understands triode operation. the sum of currents into and out of a node equals zero. grid-leak biasing.g.not many. – Peter Smith Apr 7 '17 at 14:28 Triodes can work with positive grid voltages but are very rarely operated that way except in power amplifiers. Grid current will flow when the input is positive which can cause distortion and if enough grid current flows the grid can heat to the point of causing damage. when heated.go and read-up on triodes. I hope you find this explanation helpful. i. the cathode and grid with two dissimilar metals in contact (a thermocouple) and heat them. after all.e. in your mind. Making the grid negative is biasing the tube. Electrons flowing from the grid to the cathode (through the resistor) make the grid negative with respect to the cathode. Some of these electrons fall back into the cathode. But there are some with high enough energy and direction to hit the grid wires and stay there. some escape. Control is achieved by impeding the main electron flow to a greater or lesser extent according to the demands of the input signal voltage. and some bang into the nearby grid wire . But with this resistor the extra electrons have somewhere to go -.in very first chapters of tubes-for-beginners books. Of course grid is taken negative to cathode . At first blush. Understanding how transistors work does not help you to understand how a tube works. It is also not possible to reduce the anode current below the quiescent value using this approach Tubes/Valves are in general designed to be operated with negative grid voltages. – Andy aka Apr 6 '17 at 7:54 The grid needs to be negative in order to control the flow of electrons between cathode and anode. . – emroe Apr 6 '17 at 19:56 3 Answers There are several types of biasing in tube amplifiers. It’s easier if you were military trained or your training is in physics (both of which acknowledge that current flow is negative to positive). there being no negative biasing voltage supply? It's even harder to understand if you were trained that current flows from positive to negative. The process (though different) produces the same effect – a small current flow with no external voltage source.

The question to ask is when a grid is said to be at negative potential. This is called grid-current biasing. the cathode must be raised to a positive potential while the grid remains at the 0V reference (also called ground). But the resistor involved in grid-current biasing was sometimes just called a grid leak resistor.3k 1 14 20 1 It's been a very long time for me. . the intensity that flows through the tube will also do in the resistor. Another way that is sometimes seen is to use a very high value grid resistor with the cathode connected to ground. Since U = R × I. In the schema you posted: The grid is at the same potential than the cathode hence Vgk = 0V. – Kevin White Apr 6 '17 at 1:38 I guess I've just been dated. .) – jonk Apr 6 '17 at 3:53 Maybe it is just the question of what voltage means? According to Wikipedia the voltage is a measure of electric potential difference.Also triodes are most commonly used to amplify AC signals so the signal will not just go positive from the quiescent point but will go negative as well. Tubes are no exceptions. (See valve wizzard website). This is often called self- biasing. To do so. – jonk Apr 6 '17 at 0:52 A long time for all of us. that terminology was around in the 1920's and 30's. A difference between two electric potentials. Like @kevin-white said. edited Apr 6 '17 at 1:38 answered Apr 6 '17 at 0:07 Kevin White 12. the cathode will see its potential to raise above the 0V reference so Vgk becomes … negative. adding a resistor in the cathode circuit would make the cathode to raise above grid potential reference. a resistor is placed in the cathode circuit. A common way to bias a triode is to include a resistor in the cathode such that the cathode current raises cathode by a few volts. To create a negative Vgk. It is also possible to bias tubes with LEDs (voltage source). The grid will be connected to 0v through a resistor so it has a negative voltage relative to the cathode. what is the reference? The voltages showed on components’ data sheets are always expressed regarding a reference: the cathode. The electron emission from the cathode will result in a small grid current that flows through the high-value grid resistor to give a volt or so negative bias on the grid. memory serving.

As it goes more and mores negative the tube. which is a conductance. – greg Apr 7 '17 at 9:27 2 @emroe In that circuit. If your circuit does not need this. if cathode is literally connected to GND. then you use a smaller resistance between grid and cathode. I misunderstand "zero voltage" as literal 0V on battery clip. will limit the current passing through it and an equilibrium is found depending on the value of the resistor. However in your example it's easy to see the cathode is not directly connected to GND. – Pentium100 Apr 7 '17 at 9:43 . But how about this one? Common- Cathode Amp What makes the grid "more negative" than cathode. edited Apr 7 '17 at 9:32 answered Apr 6 '17 at 7:43 greg 433 3 6 You are right. In this case the tube develops "grid leak bias" . the resistance between the grid and cathode is quite high. There can also be a power supply that delivers a potential more negative than the 0V reference (negative power supply) used to polarize the grid.essentially. some electrons that pass trough the grid on their way to the plate impact the grid and make it a bit negative. This way you can get a small negative voltage on the grid. which is the most zero point in the circuit? – emroe Apr 6 '17 at 19:53 I have augmented my answer. While it's not.