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l

1 NOMI.N ATION OF
2 THE H.ONORAB·LE B·RETT M. KAVAN.A UGH
3 TO BE AN ASSOCIATEJUSTl.CE OF THE
4 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
5
6
7
8
9 Monday, S,eptember 17, 2.0 l8
10 -. .-
·11 Un.ite.d Stales s:en,a te
12 .C.o nimittee on the
~--.,.

•. 3
J1.1dici~:ry
14 wa·shingt~·n, D.C.
15
16 Corrected Transcript
17 The .teleconference commenced at 6:04· p.m. and was
18 reported fro.m Room SD-1 Bl~ Dirks~n Senate Office
19 Building, i.n Co:mmittee Confidential -s.e·ssion
20 Participants:
21 Jud.g·e- Brett Kavanaugh
22 A.lex Walsh ,. o.n behalf of Judge Kavanaug.h
23
24 - ' Se·nate·Judiciary Cominitte.e Professi.o nal Staff
25: Me.mbers .
-
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2

1 PROCEEDINGS
2 · Good evening. This is
from the Senate Judiciary Committee. Is this Judge
3
4
Kavanaugh?
5JUDGE KAVANAUGH: This is Brett Kavanaugh. l'rn
6 he·re w·i th Alex Walsh, my counsel.
7 Great. Well, thank you very much for
8 getting on this call with us today. As you know, this is
9 part of the Committee's background investigation into
1O your nomination. Just so you know, this call is being
11 transcribed.

..·-
12
........
I'll let the rest of my colleagues here introduce
3 themselves.
14 for
15 Chairman Grassley.
16
17
18
19 We also have a transcriber here as
20 wen.
21 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Great.
1
22 We d aJso like to note for the record
23 that the Ranking Member's staff were invited to this
24 background investigation follow-up ph.one call and they
25 have declined to j.oin.
1
J Again, Judge, thank you f.or chatting
2 j with us today. We want you to be able to answer the
3 I questions we have in the most complete and truthful
4 I manner as possible. So if you have any questions during
5 I this process or if you don't understand any of our
6 qu.estions, just I.et us know.
7 If you don't know the answer to a question or don't
8 remember, don't guess. just give us your best
9 I recollection. It's okay to tell us if you learned
·1O I informatipn frorn somewhere else, if you indicate how
l l I you came to know that information.
.........
12 If there's anything you don't rem.ember, just give us
· , 3 the best of your knowledge. If you have names of folks
14 that can provide further information, we'd tak.e those.
15 For the benefit of everyone here; this interview is
16 part ofJudge Kavanaugh's background investigation and,
17 unless we get a waiver to do so, its contents can't be
1 8 shared with anyone whose name does not appear on the
19 list of designated staff or representatives pursuant to this
20 Committee's September 22, 2009, memorandum of
21 understanding with the counsel of the· President of the
2 2 United States.
23 Also, all Senators are ~ntitled to a
24 briefing of this interview if they request one,.
25 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Okay.
4

1 Judge, before we get to the content of


2 the questions h.ere, I have Q. coupl·e overview questions
~ questions. for you ~ust. ,on the p.rocess of what we.' re doin.g
4 today. 'Fitst, you should understand that, alth.ou.g.h this
5 ·Interview is not, given to· you when you're under oath, by
6 law yo.u're requ.i red to answer questions from Con9.ress
7 truthfully. Do you understand. this?
8 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do.
9 :Section 18 -- S,ection l oo 1 of use 18
1o makes it a-cr'ime to rnake .any. rnateriall.Y 'fals-e, fi'ctitious,
1 l or fraudulent statement or rep.res·entation in the: course
l 2 .o f a Congressional investigation.,, and that statute applies
.-""" 3 to your statements in this interview. Do you und.erstano
14 that?
15 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: 1. do.
16 ·1·m· sorry:; we didn't catch th.at.
17 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do.
18 Witnesses who knowingly prov.ide
19 false statements could be subje:c:t to criminal pro.secution
20 and imprisonment for up to five years.~ Do you
2·1 understand thi:s?·
22 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do.
23 Is there any ·rea,son you'd be. .unable to
24 provide truthfiJI answers to today's questions?'
25 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, there's no reason .
5

1 Great. Thank you, and I will get started


2 with o.ur questions.
3 Last week the Committee received additional
4 information to your background investigation file. So our
5 questions for you today are related to that information.
6 The Committee received a letter from an anonymous
7 source regarding alleged conduct by you from your time in
8 high school. Although the names are redacted from the
9 version the Committee received, since then we have come
lO to understand the name of the person who wrote this Jetter
11 is named Christine Ford. She made that public.
12 I understand that you have denied all conduct the·
r-.. 3 letter alleges, but we'd still like to ask you some follow~
14 up questions pertaining to the letter that we received.
15 Again, I understand these questions may be.
.J 6 uncomfortable to discuss_ , so we do appreciate yoy
17 discussing them with us and your candoL
18 Again, like in the last call We did, none of these are
19 meant to be accusatory. We're simply trying to gain
20 information today.
21 First, have you read the letter and are you familiar
2 2 with its contents?
23 JUDGEKAVANAUGH: I have.
24 Are you familiar with the Washington
2 5 Post article on this topic as well?
6

l (pause·.-)
2 A.re you the.re?'
3 JUDCE KAVANAUGH: i am.
4 · Sorry. Was that '""" are you familiar with the
5 Wa.s;hington Post article on this top.ic?
6 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Yes, I am.
7 Great.
8 We'd like to first as.k you sorne
9 questions about. Christine Blasey Ford. I doh't know if I'm
1O saying th.at right. Do you know Dr. Fo.rd?
11 JUDGE KAVANAUG.H: W.e. did ·not travel in th.e same.
drcles. in hig.h st.ho.al.. ·1 recogn ize :the: name..
So do you recal.1 rnee~ing· her .or
kn:owing. her at all in hig·h school?'
l5 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Again, we didn't travel in. the
16 sam.e ·c lrcl.es:, but I recall her name.
17 So you don't recall meeting her?
18 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I don't reca:li meeting her,
19 that.'s corre.ct.
20 And you don't recall any interactions
21 with her s·pecifically?
22 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: T.h at'·s correct.
2.3 Do you know a.ri.Y m·e.mbers in her
24 family?
25 JUDGE KAVANAU.GH: I do not.
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1 To the best of your knowledge, have


2 you ever attended a party where Dr. Ford was als·o at the
3 party?
4 JU-DGE KAVANAUGH.~ I can't rule out that we were.'at
5 the same party at som:e, point whete: the drcles,,.·.o ut social
6. drcles, would have overlapped.
7 Do you ever remember havihg
8 conversations wfth her at a party?
9 JUDGE KAVANA.UGH·:· I do not.
10 Do y.ou eve.r recaU haYin.g had :anv
1l physical encount.ers with Dr. Ford?
JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I did not.
All right. rd like to go through.just
14 some of her allegations so we have, your .q:nswe.rs dearly
l5 on· the· record. Have you ever· pushed Dr. ford in.to a
'16 b".e d room.?..
17 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, I h~ve not.
18 Have you ever locked Dr. Ford in a
19 bedroom?
20 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, I have not.
21 · Have you eve.r pinned Dr. .Ford on .her
2 2. back to a bed?
2.3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, r have not.
24 Have you ~v~.,r . gJoped Dr. Ford?
25· JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, I h.ave not.
8

.--....

l Have you ever put your hand.over Dr.


2 Ford's mouth?
3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, I have not.
4 Have you ever tried to remove Dr.
5 . Ford's clothing?
6 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No 1 I have .not.
7 Have you ever been in a room with Dr.
Ford while a man named Mark Judge jumped on top of
8
9 I you.
10 , JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, I have not.
11 More broadly, have you ever been in a
l2
.•--.. I bedroom. with. DL. Ford?·
. ..

'. 3 I JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, lhave not.


14 Does anyone have any follow-up on
15 that set of questions?
16 I don't~ no.
17 I'd like to ask you a few. questions
·1a about Mark Judge. Do you know him?
19 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do know him.
20 Can you clescribe your relationship
21 with him, both what it was like in the eighties and also
22 what it's like today?
23 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: In high school, we were in a
24 class of about a hundred,. and we were friends; and kept
9

l i.n touch for a while after high school occasio.naJly. But I


2 have not been in touch with him in several years,. putting
3 aside pote·ntial group ·e.mails that. ·membe-rs o'f my· hrgh
4 ~chool class might send out that wouid include both of us.
5 So you f~rst rrret Mr.Judge d.uri.n.g high
:G, school, is that correct?
7 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I believe in the fall of 1:979. I
8 might have met him in eighth ·g rade when he·was at ou·r
·9 Lady of M.e rcy·,_I believe, and I was· at Mater Det
lO And the last ti.rite you recall speaking
tn: him was when?
JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I can't say for sure, b.u.t it's a
13 while ago. I wou.fd probably think a.couple of years.
_
14 When you were in high -s chool, how·
15 ·frequently --- or did you attenct social events, or were you
16 at the same $Qcial events together?
17 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Yes ...
18 How freque.·ndy would you say that
19· ·wa.s?
20 JU.OGE KAVANAUGH~ We as a tlas·s or .a g~olip of
21 friends would s.e.e eath other a ltlt of weekends.
2.2 In the past we·ek, you have no.t spoken
23 ·With him?
24 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Correct,. I have not spoken .

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1 with him..
2 Can you d~scribe ·what the social events
3 were, what they typtcalty were., those we.e kends that you
4 met Mr.Judge?
s JUDGE KAVAN·AU.GH: ·rhere often were parti'es oh
·6. Saturday night during the school year, where one peison
7 would have a party Where boys and girls ·would be, a·tid it
B was fairly typical.~ at l~ast for the hi~h s.c ho.ol culture of
9 ·1 979 ·th.ro'.u gh 1983', I believe..
1.Q w·ere there ever -- was there drinkirtg .at
'l l these parties?
.12
,,......,.,
JUDGE KAVANAUGH:: Ye;S. The drl-nking age was 18
·3 and that was not fo:·11owed by the parents . The pq.rents
14 were .g e·nerally present at the.-s~ parties.
1 5· They were?
f6 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Y.es...
l7 We re there ev.er occ(;lSions where there
·1.8 were rtot parents: pt esent?
1.9 JUDGE. KAVANAUGH: I'm sure there ·were.
20 Did any of the~e part.ies ·inch.ide
21 soctal,lzing with students qt .t he Holton Arms School?·
2·2: JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I believe so on occas·ion ... But
23 out s;chool primarily sociaHzed with girl·~ from Stone
24 Ridge, Holy Child, occa-~no.nally Vis-itation, lmmac~ l ata,
2 5 sometin:i-es Holy cr·oss. But, that said, I would imagine
11

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l. that there were Holton Arms g.irls there on occasi.on and I


2 wa.s fri.ends with a couple.
3 ·Do you recall the·ir names?
4 JUDGE KAVANA.U.CH: Virgirfra H·um:e a.nd tfs:a
5 Qdyniec. Both of them -- Virg i. ni.a's my class. Li:sa
6 Odyniec was a year above me. 1'"Q.dyniec" is ODYNIEC.
7 Do you recall how old the Holto.n ·Arms
8 students were and how old yoµ .wen~ at the time?'
.9 Jl.JDGE KAVANAUGH: No. I'm· not -sure I fully
10 uhderstand the. question•
11 .Sorry. When you socialized with students
12 from the Holton Arms School, do you recall was it
.~\,.

3. throughout high ·school or was· it particular years?


14 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I don't think I remember
15. -spe.cifics ·on that in terms-- of tenth., -eleventh, ·twe lfth
16 grade. 1·t'hink ninth grade·d id not involve as much
17- -socializing as happened in tenth .and eleventh~
1 8· .Okay~ Did you eve.r have a sexual
19 encounter with a ·Holton Arms .student?
20 JUDGE KAVAN_AUGH: I do not believe so. Bu.t I'd like
21 to think about that to mak_e s~re thc;it l'm bei.ng fully
22 accurate. But I do· not believe so.as I sit here right now.
23 Thank you.
24 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I know I -- I know I never had
25 -sex.u al i ntercours.e .

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12

1 I'd I ike to· return -,. the details ate


2 va.g ue to us, bu.t the letter indi«:ates that an assauh
3. occurred in a . suburban Maryland home at a gathering
4 that included Dr. Ford a.nd fo:ut oth'ers.. Do you recall a
5 party in a suburban Maryland home wlth her and four
6 others?
7 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No ..
8 Do you recal I any parties In .stJ.burban
9 Maryland homes ~hat. y0_u were at? ·w a·s that a p·lace that
·1.0 you went to. parties?·
1l JUD.GE KAVANAUGH: Yes.· .I .lived in suburban
12 Maryland and maily of my classm.ates and friends and
·-•., 3
many of the girl·s also lived in that ·s ame county.
14 We have a co.l).ple question~ .about
15 ·what-yo.Ur life fooke.d l'ike ih the summer of 19.8.2'J Where
16. were yo,u livitig?
17 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I lived in my parents' house at
18 Bethesd.a, Maryland.
19 Were you dating anyone that summer?
20 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I had b.een dating someone.
21 That e·nded in early June. f had 'S.o me dates ove.r the·
22 ·s ummer With another friend anq then started dating
23 . s·omeone in September.
24 Did you have. ajob that sumrn.er?
25 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I had .a lawn-cutting bu.s:iness
13

1 that I -- it was.Just me, as I rec.all.


2 Were you taking any classes?
3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No. 1·was -- no.
4 Old you -spend· ti'me .at th.e Columbia
5 Country·Club?'
6 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: It's possible that I was there
7 one or two times. I did not belong, nor did my ·family
8 belong, but frie.nps, some friends· of mine, belonged.
9 5orry. Judge, the ·q ue·stion ·specifically,
·1O did you spe·nd t ime· at Columbia Country Club during the
summer of 1982·;. I just want to. clarify that it was once or
twice during th:at·time.
JUDGE KAVANAUGH: That's' what I recall.
14 Do you recall that ~um mer att~nding ~
15 party at a ho.rile· near the co_u.ntry c1·ub?
16 JUDGE KAVANAUGH; No.
17 Give us o.ne nii.n ute, please ..
18 (Discussion off the record.)
19 Thank you ve"rY much for ho.l ding. We
2.0 appreciate. it.
21 I have tw.d fairly direct qu~stions to-you _ a nd t.h~·n I
22 thl.nk we hav'e one more. line of questioning,. and then I
23 believe we'll be done. Do you remember the par~y
24 described by Dr. i=.o rd?
25 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No.
14

1 Did you attend the party des-cri.be'd by


2 Dr. Ford?
3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No.
4 Did you ever attend any party w·e te
s you we.re one of fo,ur boys at .a party and a ·sln.gie teet1age.
6 girl attended the party?
7 JUDGE KAVANAUGH:
I have no recollection of that.
8 Just .a ~couple more questions. \fou stated
9 earlier that you attended partie.s· whe·re: alcohol was
lO served, and sometimes parent:s were pres«~nt at the
11 parties, .- s ometimes they weren't. Did you drink at these
12 parties·?·
.,........,
.3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: ·veS'.
14 How much al_c ohol did you typically
1 S consume at a party?
16 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I cfrank bee.r, ~nd it wou.lp
1 7 depend on the tim·e of year, whether we were in football
.1 .8 season·, things like that.
1. g. - In the somrner?
20 JU:DGE KAVAN.AUGH: In the :suh'l°mer, I was doing
21 sports all summer.. So sometimes.
22 Okay. And did vou ever drink to ex.cess,
2-3to the. polnt th.at you would. hav.e: blacked out?
24 JUDGE" KAVANAUGH: No.
25 Do.es anyone el.se have any questions?
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15

] on.e. m·ore minute·, ple.ase.


2 (Discussion off the record.)
3 Hey, Ju(ige. Thi$ is •. I wa.nt toJust hear from

4 you. more g.e nerally. You1ve heard these· allegations made.by Dr .. Fon;f.,

5 You've re·aci . a.bout them i.n the Was,hihgtqn Po'st. I just want to. get your
6 general reaction to the.se a·llegations.
JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Tha·nk you. I did n.ot db this.
7
6 did not do this to Ms. ·Ford or anyone. I ·want to be
9 c:ategori·cal and une.quivotal that I did not commi.t sexual
·1O assault. That i.s not me. 'T hat was not me.
11 Yo.u have heard from friends I ha_ ve from high .school,
-~ 2 65 women, 2·20 or -so total, men and wom·en.. That
·1:3 includes many friends who. were girls, as well as pe:ople I
14 dat~d, including ·d~nces over this period, all of whom
15 attested to my resp·e.c t. for women and treating them· a·s·
16 equa·ls. :at the· time.
17 You've heard throughout this process how l've treated
l8 women as equals and sought to promote women. You
19 have ~ letter fro.m wom:en I went to coUege With. You have.
20 a letter from 84 women I worked with 'i.i1 the Bush White
21 House.
22 Yo.u've heard often from my forrn~~ clerks who are
23 women . A _ m aj.ority of my cl.erks h~ve been wo·me·n.
24 Almost all of the.m have gone on to clerk at the SQpreme
.··- ..
16

c ·q urt and I've s.e.rved as mentors for them. You've hea.rd


l
2 about my coaching, the girls basketball, the p.eople rve
3 ~ri.ed to influence· in that throu.gh the coachin_g .
4 Sex.ual .as·sault is horrible· ancl traum.a tic. But I did .not
5 do this. M~ybe· something happened to Ms·. Ford by
6. s:omeone els·e at. some time in hig·h sthool, but I know I ·dJd
7 not do this.
8 I'm a sftti'ng, judge with a lifetime of public ·service
·9 and hard work. I've lived a good life. To clear mv name:,
I want a. hearing ·to·morrow.
l l Judge, I Just want to walk thro. ugh the
12 process through the Committee. As part of this.
,,.....,...;
3 nomination, we have had -- we have received your
14 n.ominatioh. You have had, fro·m what I understand; 65
lS m:eetihQ's with United States Senato~s; is. that correct?
16 JUD·G·E KAVANAUGH·: That is .correct.
l 7' And that ·inctudes with Senator o·ian ne
18 Feinstein, the Ranking M·ember .o f the Senate Judiciary
19 Committee; is that correct?
20 JUDGE KAVANALJGH: That ts: correct.
21 Do you reca.11. the date of that meeting
22 with Senator Feinstein?
23 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I d.o·n't .h.ave the specific date
24 with me.
25 Senator Fein-stei·n had a letter that was

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17

.-.•..

l .dated July 30, 20 l 8, that she said that she rece:.i ved from
2 Or. Park. Sen~to.r Feinstein sat .o.n this letter -- .ex(:use me.
3 Dr. Fo.rd. I apol'o~ize. Dr. Ford.
4 Senator F~rnstein -sat on thi.s letter fo·r n·early si'x.
5 vyeeks and did not tell the Chairman or'- apparently,. any
6 other member of the Senate Judiciary Comtnitte.e . Do you
understand that?
7
8 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I have. read that.
9 " During this tim.e, we. have had_, c;il·ong
1O with vour- meeti.ng with 65 Senators·, in·c ludin.9. Senator
l l Feinstein, ·we have also "'.-do you recall that Senator
12 Feirrstein's staff and Chairman .Gr~s:sley's st~ff had two
··"'· 3 phone calls with you related to your FBI background
14 investigation? Do you recall, it was -- excuse m.e. One
15 p·hone c.an related to your" FBI investigation~ do you reqall
·16 that phone call.7
17 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do recall the phone calL
18 'There might have been two.
1.9 Do yo.u also -- I know that you're not
20 going to for9et this. Do you recall silting throu9.h three
21 .days. and 32 h.ours. of a public h~aring with the Senate
22 Judiciary- Committee?
23· JUDGE KAVA.NAUGH: I do.
24 Do you recali at :any point dl)ring this
25 ·process that this issue related to Dr. Ford, that Senator

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18

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1 _Feins;tein had :-ap.parently .s ince July 30th, according to the


letter, do you recall. this ever befng raised at any point up
2
to this point?
3
4· JUDGE KAVANAUGH:: It. was not raised.
5 ·was it ralsed i·n the close.d s·ession
'6· where confidential· or sensitive matters ·c an be raised in a
7 private closed sessi·o n at the end of your three days: of
8 tE!Sti m·ony? Was. it raised the·n?
9 JUOGE KAVANAUGH: It was. not rai.-sed in· the ·c:lo,sed
l O sess io.n.
11 Do you recall if Senator Feinstein even
12 came to· that dose:d session?
--., 3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: Senator Fein~tein wa-s not.
14 present at the dosed session.
15 After your hearing, we have what. are
16 ca.lled qu·estio-ns: for the recortj·. Do you understanq that --
11
- they're QFRs fbr short in Se·n ate pa.rlan.ce. Do you
11
17
18 recall that you rec.e:ived nearly 1 300 questions for·th~
l9 recon::I that you had to respond to?
20 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do.
21 Do you understand that this is m'.o re
2'2 questi·ons for the record submitted to o.ne.Supreme Court
23 nominee_, it's more· than every ·other Supreme Court
24 nom'inee befo·re you combined?
25 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: I do. understC\,nd that.
19

. ~\

1 Was this issue -.- was t his -aHegatio:n that


2 Dr. Ford made, th.at Senator Fe.inste.l n had. s·i nteJuly 30th,
·3. was this. iss.ue ever raised in any of the:se nearly 13'00

5
6 are. We've already -.:. we
So here we
7 were s:·c heduled to have your vote out of the Comm ittee
.g to th~ Senat~ floo.r thi·s Th .ursd~y ....And for the first ti.me,
9 o·n Sunday we· learned the identity of this accuser. Is that
lO when you learned, the identity of this accuser?
1l JUDGE KAVANAUGH: That is correct.
12 What's your reaction to ·that?
·- y 3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH:- I want a he·aring tomorrow.
i.4 ·well, Judge·, we under.stand that. We
15 have rul.e.s in the Se:nate Judiciary Committee~ We would
i ·6 love to have -yout heating tomorrow, so you can corn.·e
17 testify and tell the Ametican people what you jus·t ~old µs.
·18 We have. rules where we. can't have your hearing for seven
19 days..
20 s·o we· have noticed a hearing .for .next Monday at
21 10:00 a.m., so you .c an come· in and tell .t he Ameri.c an
22 people. what you've just tol~ . us. I hope that the A.m e:rican
23 peopl.e get to hear from: you.
24 . JUD.GE KAVANAUGH: I look forwar~ to the h~aring·.
25 I welcome the opportunity.

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20

1 Great. Do you have anything else that


2 you would like to add, Judge?
3 JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, thank you.
4 Thank you.
5 Judge, we appreciate your candor in a
6 very difficult and sensitive topic, and we thank you for
7 talking with us today; and we will see you next week.
8 JUDGE'. KAVANAUGH: Thank you.
9 (Whereupon, at 6:34 p.m., the interview was
i ·o concluded.)

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