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August 20, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 4

Champion/ Well this is the same when we had the neighbors here talking about that water.

Davidson/ Yeah, the neighbors, Connie, that we heard from, at least the majority of them, were
in these houses here, and you may hear from them tonight, but the City engineer has
certified that it is a workable drainage plan, um...

Champion/ Okay, thank you!

Davidson/ Any other questions, Connie, or excuse me, Susan?

Mims/ No, thanks. It' s just ...we' ve had a lot of zoning stuff and...

Davidson/ Yeah, so this is basically taking it from the zoning to the platting.

Mims/ Platting. Thank you!



Throgmorton/ Matt, I think we need to talk about Item #9. And I ... but I don' t know if others
have other topics they want to bring up before that.

Champion/ What is 9?

Throgmorton/ That' s the downtown, ped mall thing.

Champion/ ( several talking) I have some discussion about it to, but I think we should do it at the
open meeting.

Throgmorton/ Uh, well...

Hayek/ Well, we could probably do both. I mean, and we should ... if there are questions, I
wouldn' t discourage people from ... from bringing `em up now.

Markus/ We' re, uh, prepared to do a brief PowerPoint so everybody' s on the same page with the
regulations and then maybe as we walk through that, questions could be proposed, or
posed, based on the specific items. Would that help? And then we would replay that
during the regular session too.

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Throgmorton/ No, I ... I think, uh, what ...what I personally feel a need to do is ... is say that I ...I
was surprised to see this appear on the formal agenda when we had not had a work
sessions discussion about it. We, as far as I know, we Council people have had no
explicit discussion about the topic at all.

Champion/ No, we haven' t.

Throgmorton/ Uh, so ... so the very fact that it' s on the agenda when we had not had a work
session discussion about it surprises me. It' s, uh, you know, Geoff wrote a very fine
memo, so I appreciate the, uh, the skill with which he did it, but it consistently states that
the City thinks this, the City thinks that, but the Council has not even discussed the topic.
So, that ... that unsettles me. And ...and I ... I think we need to discuss it, before, uh, we
have a... a formal session, um, agenda item, and before we take a vote on acting. So that
that' s my concern. I' m trying to state it as clearly as I can.

Champion/ Well I think we can ... I think a better time to discuss this, since we' re going to have
our presentation, is at the formal meeting where everybody else can hear it, and if we
don' t like it we can make changes or we can defer it if we can' t make a decision on it.

Hayek/ Well, I... Geoff, how long does your presentation take?

Fruin/ It' s about 10 slides. Uh, so I could get through it in five to 10 minutes probably.

Hayek/ Why don' t you do that now and let' s have a little discussion now before we go up this

Fruin/ Okay.

Dobyns/ Jim, I' m assuming what you' re getting at is, um, City staff should be able to bring
things forward; however, if there are things that are going to have particular residents in
the community and are a little bit more sensitive than others, it sounds like you wanted
them to discern what those things are and perhaps do a little foreshadowing with a... with
a work session discussion? Before ( both talking)

Throgmorton/ Speaking... that' s pretty close. Speaking solely from the point of view of one
Councilperson, I' d say ... you know, I' m fully aware of the situation down there. I ...but
there are many questions I would ask of the staff and... and want to know what the public
is thinking, before we go into a vote about it, uh ... about the topic. So it, uh, it
catches me off guard as one individual member of the Council.

Markus/ ( several talking) I would just respond to you. You always preserve your right to defer
and delay and ( both talking)

Throgmorton/ Right, I understand. Right.

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Markus/ And ...while the report may refer to the City' s position, it' s clearly a staff
recommendation at this point. We recognize the City, uh, Council has not debated this
issue, or the specific recommendations. So, we' re fully responsible for the content, um,
and ... and don' t put any of that on the Council at this point.

Throgmorton/ Okay. So, Geoff.

Fruin/ Okay, well, I ...I' ll try to be brief and jump through this and ... and interject, um, when you
have questions, and I want ...what I want to do is just kind of walk you through the memo
that I wrote. So, attempting to frame the issue, um, certainly over the last, uh, year,
especially in the spring and summer months, we have received, um, an increasing amount
of complaints about behaviors in the downtown. Um, and so this is a ... an attempt to

address some of those concerns. Um, as you saw in the memo, some of ...the concerns —
aggressive behavior, um, aggressive behavior ...uh,fighting, loi, uh, littering, smoking,
obstructing, uh, public amenities and public walkways, uh, are just some of the issues,
and some of those we can deal with increased enforcement, um, we... such as aggressive

behavior and smoking. We can put additional officers in the area and have some success
at, uh, achieving compliance. Uh, other... other behaviors that we receive complaints on,
uh, including the use of electrical outlets and the storage of personal property. We just
don' t have anything, uh, in the City code that allows us to address that. Um, so
that' s really what we' re here talking about today. Uh, the approach that we' ve taken,
again, this is an on -going issue, urn ... the, if you recall you authorized the funding of a
downtown, uh, beat officer position this year, so that started up in February. We' ve
really tried to take a community policing approach to this issue. Officer Schwindt, uh,
has been down there. I think he' s done a phenomenal job down there, establishing
relationships with businesses and residents and the people that are ... are downtown. We
want to continue to emphasize that going forward. Um, we think that' s a critical part of
this. Uh, we' ve tried to engage, um, individuals that are demonstrating the behaviors that
are generating the concerns. To try to get them to voluntarily, uh, change their ...the
behaviors, and ... and also to just kind of better understand what their needs are and what

they would, you know, like to see out of the public spaces downtown. After dealing with
this issue for several months, we ... as
in staff, uh, finally came to the conclusion that, um,
the regulatory changes were the most appropriate way to, uh, move forward to address
these behaviors and ensure that the, uh, public' s use and enjoyment of the open spaces is
maximized. So real quick through the issues, um, they' re broken down in the memo for
you. Use of planters, individuals are currently allowed to sit, lie, or be in the planters.
Um, certainly some of the planters were designed for sitting. Um, but others were not
designed for that, and ... and in addition, when you have people in the planters, you' re
certainly, uh, prone to damaging the, uh, the vege ... the vegetation in there, um, that our
staff and volunteers work on. So what' s in the ordinance before you, it would prohibit
people from, uh, being in the planters and prohibit lying down on all planters. It would
further restrict seating to only those planters that were designed for such purposes. And
it' s easy to talk about the ones that weren' t designed for such purposes. They' re low to
the ground. They look like a curb, no more than a foot off the ground. They' re skinny so
you can' t really sit on the ledge, uh, completely. You have to be in the planter a little bit.
Uh, the problem with that, of course, is that it damages the vegetation again, and also

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that, um, it restricts the pedestrian movement when you sit on those, planters your legs are
outstretched a little bit and it significantly narrows those pedestrian throughways, uh, in
those areas. Storage of items ... uh, - ay —this has been a ... a,
items in the right -of w
certainly a growing concern this year. Um, the concern being that the storage of items
limits the public spaces for other people to ... to use. So the recommendations, again,
before you tonight in the ordinance, um, restricts storage of items in the planters, on tree
rings, and other public amenities, um, at all times. It further restricts storage of items
based on time and size, so allows someone to store items, uh, next to ` em for a maximum
of two hours and items that are no more than four square feet, um, in size. And then it
addresses the shopping cart, uh, concerns that we' ve been getting. We certainly want to
allow shopping carts to be used for their intended purposes, and the way that this
ordinance is crafted, we believe achieves that. It does allow for, um, the transporting of
goods to your vehicle or to your place of residence. It allows for the use of the residential
scale carts that, um ... that
you can buy at a, you know, at a retail store and people that
have apartments downtown may have to ... to do their grocery shopping. Unattended
property, this is items that are stored and left unattended by their owners. Again, this
relates to the storage issue. They take up physical space that, uh, then becomes unusable
by others. So this, uh, recommendation would allow the Police Department to remove
property when their owner, or the person that the owner has appointed to watch the items,
um, are not within 20 -feet of the property. Um, if this goes forward, we would need to
bring before you a resolution that would outline the reclaim procedure, but (mumbled)
essentially would leave notification that, uh, when the person returns where they can find
their property and how they could, uh, reclaim that. Uh, we envision them coming to
City, uh, Hall at the Police Department. It' s open 24/ 7 and we don' t envision there being
any type of fee for that to reclaim. Uh, it does exempt people around the playground
area. Use of electrical outlets, um, again this is, um, a growing concern and this also
speaks to the condition of the electrical system that we have down there. It' s not
adequate for what we ... we feel are genuine public purposes and so we don' t feel that
there' s a ... a ability to accommodate personal needs at this time without compromising
the public needs, or compromising those that have permitted special events down there,
or that pay for the service through their mobile vending license fees. So we would, uh,
the recommendation would prohibit personal uses, uh, of the electrical network, and uh,
the other thing, you know, we would like to do is through the streetscape update process,
take a look at what upgrades can be made and if there are some sensible upgrades that
can be made that would, uh, allow some selective private use, I think we' d be open to...
to looking into that. Lying on benches, um, pretty self explanatory
- here. Again that, uh,
the act of lying on a bench takes away the public space for others to use. So our
recommendation would, uh, restrict during the time period of 5: 00 A.M. to 10: 00 P. M.
This, uh, early in the morning hours is when our cleaning crews are assembling to ... to,
um, make their pass through in the district and we think it' s a need for the, you know, the
benches to be open, for us to get around the ... and clean the benches and the spaces
around them, and then through the day and into the evening hours when there' s peak
pedestrian, um, traffic volumes. The panhandling area... areas, uh, that we allow, again,
there' s currently, uh, several restrictions on panhandling, uh, in the ... in the downtown.
ATMs, outdoor cafes, building facades are some examples. Um, and they tend to be low,
uh, the regulations tend to restrict where people are ... you have a captive audience or that

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you' re likely to be handling money. What the proposals, uh, the staff is putting forward
do will extend restrictions to the sidewalks that have, uh, parking meters, um, on those
on those, uh, blocks, and then also the, um, three entrances to the ped mall. So if you
think of the ped mall and take the ped mall right -of w
- ay extended to the back of curb, uh,
on the three streets where you can enter ( coughing, unable to hear speaker) areas. Uh, the
thought there, um, is that those are extremely high traffic areas, uh, with people coming
and going from the ped mall and that' s the source of wayfinding, so people are stopping
and (coughing, unable to hear speaker) district maps and ... and seeking information on
where to go. Okay, real quick on the enforcement strategy. Um, we certainly don' t want
to be overly punitive of these, uh, with these ordinance changes. Uh, the ordinances all
the ordinance has language in there that states that a verbal, uh, warning must be given
before a citation is issued. I can tell you in just talking with, uh, Officer Schwindt
already multiple verbal warnings are given, um, on existing regulations as part of his, uh,
community policing approach, and he' s going to do whatever he can to get voluntary
compliance. Uh, we don' t see that changing with any new regulations that are added.
And, uh, as the memo, um, references, uh, the Police Department, uh, has created a
diversion program which would allow people that are cited to be able to perform
community service to work off the fine, and we think that' s a... a real good solution

that' ll, um, that we' ll go forward with regardless of... of...of where these changes go, um,
in the next few months. So that' s... that' s the quick version.

Dobyns/ So, Geoff, um, these are within the geographic confines of what' s known as the ped
mall. Um, you know, I' m thinking of like smoking policies. You just sort of, uh (noise
on mic) re- engineer the geography, um, of the perceived behavior. So like on
Washington, I' m sorry.

Fruin/ I' m going to bring up a map as we' re talking about it, Rick, so I' m...

Dobyns/ I' m looking at Washington Street ( mumbled) entrance. So I mean ... with these present
considerations, um, the perceived behavior could move simply north of Washington.

Fruin/ The ... the ordinances that we' re talking (both talking) about, unless explicitly mentioned
in there with, such as the panhandling where we' re defining specific areas, the ordinances
apply uniformly to the three areas that you see. The Northside Market, Central Business
District (several talking) and the near southside. That ... that' s not to say there' s not going
to be unintended consequences ( both talking) behaviors that move. That' s...

Dobyns/ So it' d be one block over on Iowa Avenue. Okay.

Throgmorton/ So ... so your question can be...

Dobyns/ So it could be displaced to Iowa Avenue.

Throgmorton/ Well, in general one possible consequence is that whatever the offending
behaviors are they' d just be displaced to some other part of the city.

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Dobyns/ Right.

Throgmorton/ So then the question becomes, wh ...what would be done then? And ...and is it
appropriate to take action (coughing, unable to hear speaker) displaces these behaviors to
other part ... other parts of the city, and in a sense makes them invisible instead of having

them remain visible, as they are now, and ... so that we know that some members of our
community are engaging in certain kinds of behavior that makes some of us feel

Markus/ ( away from mic, difficult to hear)

Dilkes/ I would...

Markus/ ... that actually happened the first time we implemented regulations on the ped mall.

Karr/ Tom, could you... Tom... thank you!

Markus/ ... did move the issue, uh, to these entrance points and I think ...I think your point is well
made. Every ordinance you pass probably has some level of unintended consequence and
it does in this particular case where you' re dealing with geographic issues is going to
potentially move to other places. Um, I think there' s certain characteristics of the entries
here that are ... such that, you know, we thought that the regulation was probably
appropriate to place in these particular areas, but we' re not shortsighted enough to think
that it can' t move it to other areas as well.

Dilkes/ I..I would just comment too that ... that in looking at the reasonableness of these
regulations and kind of the analysis my office goes through, one of the things that ...that
is very problematic is the fact that the ped mall area and the downtown area for us is very
small, and we are trying to accommodate in just an in ...incredible list of activities in the
downtown area, and so ... when you' ve got that much traffic in an area, things like storage
of big bulky personal items are more problematic than they would be in areas of the town
where there' s less traffic, for instance.

Throgmorton/ So this raises another, uh, question I have or a concern I have. I ...I think as a
factual matter a lot of the chaos and congestion currently being caused in the downtown
area is a result of the staging area, and that' s good because the building' s going up. I
understand there needs to be a staging area. But that' s really compacted the amount of
space that' s available for us for public use there on the Washington Street side of
Dubuque ... of...of the ped mall. So then the question becomes basically will this
problem kind of dissipate as a significant problem once the construction' s finished?

Dickens/ No, because of the smoking. That' s the only place you can smoke is from those
planters to the street. So that' s ... the smoking is probably one of the biggest, because...

Dobyns/ So Black Hawk, you couldn' t smoke in the Black Hawk (several talking)

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Dickens/ Most of `em have moved up because of the smoking ordinance. They' re not on the ped
mall. They' re all congregated right there. One it' s the highest traffic area for
panhandling. Two, it' s the only place they can smoke past that wall.

Throgmorton/ So maybe that' s a... ( both talking)

Dickens/ That' s one of the ... one of the main keys is and ... and
you see ` em all day. They keep
moving down, and it isn' t just cigarettes. We' ve watched `em roll everything there and

Champion/ Everything!

Dickens/ And uh, the whiskey, the ... the passing of drugs, I ...I' ve called in, uh ... uh, license plate

numbers when I' ve seen transactions and I know they' ve followed up on those. Being in
the location that I see that ...from 7: 30 in the morning when I get to work, til I leave at
5: 00 or 5: 30. So one, we have a lot of windows so I get to see a lot of the action, but that
seems to be the trend, but they keep moving farther and farther down the ped mall,
smoking and... and the verbal abuse and the sexual harassment to women and men
walking the ped mall has gotten to a point where it... something needs to be done.

Throgmorton/ So acknowledging that all that is in fact taking place?

Dickens/ It' s all in one area.

Throgmorton/ The ordinances will ...the ordinance, as I understand it, will simply displace it,
cause it to go somewhere else. ( both talking)

Dickens/ But there isn' t any place quite as attractive as that.

Champion/ Yeah, I' m not sure where it ...they' ll go! Um, you know...

Dickens / And when free lunches and free breakfast changed down to Gilbert, we' ve already
talked about, you know, I' m working with those people. They' re worried about is it all
going to be displaced down there. Is it creating a new problem?

Throgmorton/ Exactly, and... and... and I think we should have some... display some forethought
about that.

Champion/ I ... I think ...I think that' s an important point. I can tell you that I' m ... I' m in the ped
mall a lot, and I have never been uncomfortable like you are now. The panhandlers are
very aggressive. They' re actually nasty, and they get very rude, and if I was a young
woman with small children, I wouldn' t go down there! I' m going to say this right out...
we' re not on TV are we? ( laughter) I have caught people having sex ( several talking)
leaning against Herteen and Stocker. I caught a man the other day leaning against
mumbled) masturbating! I mean, we' ve got a horrible behavior problem down here, and
you know, I totally support homelessness. I campaign ... I' m the Chairman for the new

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Shelter House. Shelter House is not a flop house, and so a lot of these people can' t get in
there cause if you' ve been drinking, you can' t get into the Shelter. The Shelter is a rehab
place and what we really need is a `wet' shelter where people who' ve been drinking and
using drugs can ... can go to, and that' s being worked on. But they cannot be downtown
doing the behaviors that they were doing. We do not allow our young girls to leave the
store alone. That' s how bad it is. They' re really nasty to them. They' re very sexually
suggestive and these are young college girls and they' re from small towns, and they' re
terrified! And so, right, the ped ... there are citizens ...the ped mall is for everybody, but
there' s gotta be certain behaviors that are only acceptable there.

Dobyns/ And I' m going to agree. I think there' s change in ...there' s interval change in the, um,
nuanced behavior, differences. I' m seeing people that used to look at people who were
like dressed, you know, exotically, grunge —they' d walk past and they' d roll their eyes.
Now I' m seeing people who are actually stopping, turning around, and I think that' s an
incremental change in behavior in the 25 years that I' ve (both talking)

Champion/ I have never complained about the ped mall, ever! ( both talking)

Dobyns/ ... the area. You know there' s ... I think ...I think, uh, you know, downtown Iowa City
has a tension, but I think is really very positive that other communities don' t have. I
don' t think we' re trying to get rid of this. I think we have a new change, and ... and, Jim,
I would say with every decision that I make, um, there' s intended consequences and
unintended consequences with every decision. Um, but I think the interval deterioration
of behavior there suggests that the intended ones have a higher likelihood of happening
than the acknowledged unintended ones.

Champion/ And I don' t know about the numbers. It' s not a lot of people. I mean, most of the
people hanging out there are just hanging out. But there is this group that are very
aggressive, and they' re not friendly. And there' s fights. I know... Cheap and Chic has
called the police I don' t even know how many times for fights, drugs, people
ba ... bashing into the store. I mean, it' s ... I don' t know what it is. It' s just this lack
of...of respect for anybody or anything! And it' s really sad.

Dickens/ I talked to, uh, Dave Criss from Hills Bank. They' re planning their Youth, uh,
Achievement Awards at the Englert, uh, he was downtown Friday. I was gone Friday,
but he came up to talk to me and he almost turned around and went back to the Englert
and cancelled it and moved it to Coralville. He' s said he' s never ... he hadn' t been
downtown for a little while and he said, " I' ve never seen something so bad." The idea
was to bring families down here to enjoy it, everyone to enjoy the downtown and the
restaurants. He was ready to pull it, and I said, " Dave, give us a chance!" Because it' s,
you got that ... I had to walk a customer to her car this afternoon. Our door was kicked in

Sunday night. It' s ... the Behavior has gotten to the point where it' s ... it' s not conducive
for anyone to be downtown.

Champion/ Eleanor, can we make ... the ped mall non -smoking all the way to the street?

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Dilkes/ Yes.

Champion/ I mean, I think that would help. Like no smoking on the benches.

Dickens/ It' s run by the Parks Department supposedly so if it' s considered a park ...they could be

Champion/ I mean ... I mean, I...

Dickens/ I mean it could be part of their... overall, can' t you limit times when ...the park can be

Champion/ I don' t know but I mean I' ve never, ever called the City about anything going on in
the ped mall. I' ve actually broken up fights and sex on the ped mall myself. ( several
talking) I' m not going to do it anymore!

Throgmorton/ I was just going to say, Connie makes an interesting suggestion and maybe
we ... we could focus on smoking and maybe that would have ... have beneficial (both


Dickens/ ... start...

Throgmorton/ ... a friend also suggested the possibility of inserting, uh, in order to deal with

the sleeping on benches challenge, to, uh, this person suggested inserting, uh, a new
several talking) arm rail in the middle of...of the benches. You know, that makes it
pretty hard to ... to stretch out and sleep, and I know, I' ve slept on those benches before,
you know, so I know what it' s like right now but that' s a possibility as well.

Hayek/ You know I want ... I want to answer, uh, your question, Jim, about, um, just moving the
problem. Um, I know, certainly that' s a possibility, but ...but you know it' s my
sense that there' s something about the pedestrian mall that distinguishes it from the other
parts of downtown where the problem might theoretically move, and ... and I think it has
to do with the ... the mass of people and the types of...the myriad activities occurring
there and the open space and there' s something about the pedestrian mall that, you know,
accelerates I think, um, the ... the problems we' re experiencing. So while I think it' s
possible that to some degree, um, some of these things might move, I don' t think it
necessarily follows that they will, uh, or that they will follow ...or ...or that they will
move, you know, with the same level of...of, uh, troubling behavior, the same amount of
activity to these other places. That' s... that' s my sense. And I ...I think this is, I mean,
you know... it' s... I' m going to support this. I ... I think staff has been exceptionally
sensitive as it looks at these problems, and works with, uh, stakeholders who are
involved, um ... uh, whether it' s the Downtown District or ...or the Shelter House staff
or ... or the community policing efforts, or the other groups that ... that provide services,
um, to craft a solution that makes sense, that' s not, um, that ...that doesn' t ...that isn' t
draconian. That doesn' t go beyond what... what... what staff thinks makes sense. So
what I see is a series of... of thoughtful suggestions, urn ... that I think are worth ...worthy

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of...of attempt, and I' m down there six days a week, um, you know, half a block away
but close enough and I walk through there every day and ... and you know, Rick, your
comments and ... uh, you know, are ... are what I, uh, would ...would describe as why it

has changed and that' s why we' re talking about it.

Payne/ So, Jim, what ...what would you propose instead? I ...I guess, I mean, what ...what do
you think could fix the problem instead of having these new regulations?

Throgmorton/ You know, what I' d do is go back to the starting point, which is that we could
have the initial discussion on the Council and... and then think about it and talk to other
people and focus in on ideas that we ... we would have, instead of trying to generate ideas
on... almost on the spur of the moment.

Champion/ But these ideas just didn' t come from the staff. They were working with the
Downtown District, I assume.

Fruin/ Yeah, it' s ... it' s hours and hours worth of (laughs) ( both talking)

Champion/ Yes! It wasn' t just staff dreaming these up. I don' t like some of them, I have to
admit it bothers me but I think as a choice right now, I don' t have a choice but to support
them. Things might change, like when you say when that construction area' s done and
open. That may ... that may change and some of these could be rescinded, but right now it
is ... it' s not ... it' s just not good! It' s not good for (both talking)

Throgmorton/ What' s interesting and important for me to hear, Terry and you, Connie, uh...
point to the behaviors, specific behaviors that you' ve seen. Uh, like most of you, I...
spend a lot of time down there too (both talking)

Champion/ I know you do!

Throgmorton/ ... see me walking along Dubuque a lot and the ped mall and whatever, and that' s
been the case for 27 years and I think it is a bit different right now, but you know I think
the congestion, I mean the congestion and ... and dirtiness and chaos associated with the
staging area has something to do with it. And the smoking, uh, ordinance part of it has
something to do with it. I don' t know what ...what all, what is causing some sort of a
vortex, uh, other than the two things that I just pointed to. Some... something' s going on.
It' s a little bit different for sure, but I haven' t seen the kinds of behaviors you' ve talked
about. I haven' t seen anybody engaging in sex, you know, maybe it' s because ( both

Champion/ Well it doesn' t happen every day! ( laughter) Well maybe it does happen every day,
but I don' t catch ` em every day!

Throgmorton/ I mean I' ve seen a few people kissing before you know but that' s a little bit

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Champion/ Kissing' s different!

Dobyns/ Yeah, I' ve seen some things, I' m just not able to be as graphic as Connie ( laughter)

Dickens/ No, the whiskey bottle was an interesting morning there. They were passing it around.
We called and ... and by the time the officer got... they' d... they' d put it away, but the nice
thing is the gentleman that was chugging the bottle finally passed out in front of the ... the
mall up the street and I went into the mall people and said there' s a guy passed out on
your front. So they came and they ...he had several warrants for his arrest so he was
finally picked up but that ...that' s not unusual to see this going on, and ... and you can only
call so many times. We call on a regular basis, every time there' s a fight we ... we call.

We ... it' s just a ... it' s a non -stop. Something' s going on.

Champion/ The other ... the other problem I think we should ...we should bring up, not that
there' s a lot we can do about it except talk to our legislators is, a lot of people who ... I' m
not going to call them homeless because they' re not... some of them are not homeless, but
let' s say they' re derelicts, so to speak. They have alcohol and drug abuse problems.
Another share of them have mental illness, and as the State cuts more and more budgets
from the mental health programs, we' re going to see an increase in this. And we have
mental illness in our family, and sometimes it' s not easy to deal with. But somehow if
we can get the County social services involved in some of this. Now not can' t help
everybody. Not everybody wants to be helped! ( several talking) But we do have a lot of
mel ... mental illness in drifters. There' s no question about it. If it' s not alcohol or drugs,
it' s mental illness or a combination of the... of the three.

Throgmorton/ So ... you make a point, I mean, again, one that I agree with and I ...I think there' s
a tendency, and maybe it' s my tendency. I don' t want to put it off on anybody else,
to ... to
say that there' s a, you know, a cluster of 25 or whatever people that are the
problem and they' re all identical, and that' s just not true, right? So ... so there' s
considerable variety so ... I ...I guess I worry that ... taking a broad brush approach, may...
maybe that' s an unfair characterization, uh... as if they were all the same... is a mistake,

either in perception or reality. So...

Mims/ But what ... I guess what I would say is ... that ... either what' s being presented here, and
maybe this isn' t the way you meant it, Jim, I don' t see it as a ... as a broad brush stroke,
assuming everybody' s the same. It' s ... this is not making, to me, is not making any
assumptions about anybody who' s downtown. It is talking about what do we consider to
be a reasonable standard of behavior in public places so that all members of the public,
regardless of income or race or religion or whatever, gender, can be comfortable in what
is a public place. And so we' re talking about behaviors that make it difficult and/ or
impossible or uncomfortable for people to use what is a public place for everybody. It' s
making no assumptions about whether people are poor, whether they' re homeless,
whether they' re ... have mental illness or whether they, you know, have a drug or alcohol
problem. It' s talking about behaviors that ... I think are reasonable, that as members of
society that we respect other people and other people' s property, and this is public
property. And so coming at it from that standpoint, I don' t have a problem with the bulk

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of the regulations that we' re looking at. I wish we didn' t have to do ` em at all! I totally
agree with Connie' s point that there are a plethora of other issues that need to be dealt
with that as a city, we can' t deal with `em all on our own, and that is this whole issue of
homelessness, mental health, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, etc., that, uh, cause some of
these people to be out here on the streets where they are.

Dobyns/ And I' m going to comment on that, uh, Susan, during public session. Uh, Geoff
supplied me with our funding a lot of the agencies that address, that we have given, uh,
you know, reasonable amount of funding to (both talking) um, to discuss these myriad

Mims/ Good! Thanks.

Hayek/ You know ...oh, go ahead!

Payne / And ...I was just going to say, both Connie and Susan, you brought up the word respect
twice, and while Jim was talking that' s the word that came into my mind, and what, to me
what these regulations are is ... we' re ... we' re telling people how to be respectful. That' s
what these reg ... regulations do. If people were respectful of everybody else, we
wouldn' t have to make the regulation. But people aren' t respectful, so now we have to
make a regulation to tell them how to be ... what is ... what is an acceptable, respectful

Dobyns/ And you got to be careful of what' s respectful and what' s not, of course, and like I said,
I think this is now gone beyond. There' s been an interval change. Um, it' s gone past

Payne / Right!

Dobyns/ To aggressiveness. ( several agreeing)

Throgmorton/ Can.. can I ask Geoff a ... a question? In your memo, Geoff, you say that the
staff and the District have, uh, done some research in, I don' t know, comparable cities.
Uh, but ... but you don' t present any of the results, at least not explicitly, present any of
those ... the results of that research. Um ...can you give us some sense of that, and ... you
know, have you looked at other college towns? What are they doing? Are they facing
similar problems or, you know, is there something really unique about our ped mall?

Fruin/No, I don' t think there' s something really unique. This is a challenge that, uh, a number of
districts face, not just college towns but, um, downtowns across the country, and what the
research tells ya is that there is no ... uh, silver bullet solution. There' s no one thing
that ... that creates it or one thing that will, uh, you know, correct it or address it. Um,
cities take a ... a variety of dis ... different approaches, to each of, uh, to each of the issues
that we' ve talked about here, and ... and um, you know, maybe ... maybe it wasn' t clear
enough in the memo but regulations are not the only way to address this, and it' s not the
only way that we want to address this. Physical design, Jim, as you alluded to with the

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benches plays a ... a large role, and not just the design of benches but how you design the
public spaces, how you design the planters, the walkways, the lighting, all those things
come into it. So we want to continue down, uh, that path as well. Again, how you
enforce it, the approach that your police department takes, all those things, um, factor into
it, but specifically was there something that we looked at in another community that said
that' s right for us? I ... I don' t think so. May ...maybe from a legal standpoint
you' re shaking your head no. Um ...but we did spend a considerable amount of

time. I know, um, I looked quite a bit, the legal team looked quite a bit, uh, Nancy, uh,
made, Nancy Bird with the Downtown District made contacts with her ... her colleagues
across, uh, across the country and people that she' s worked with, and there' s just no... no
magic solution.

Hayek/ Couple final comments on this. First, this is first consideration this evening. So it will
not be completed, even if we vote this evening. There' ll be more opportunity for input
and... and discussion. Secondly, I don' t think it made it in time for the last packet today

but we were ... we received an email and it was sent to the individual Council Members so
somebody' ll try to forward it to you tomorrow, Marian, but if any of you can ... look for
the email from Astrid Bennett of, uh, Artisans Gallery which I think was sent to all seven
of us individually. Very thought ... if you do, well either between now and the formal or,
you know, tomorrow, you know, before the second reading, very thoughtful, um, set of
comments from ...from a, a downtown proprietor who' s I think very sensitive to the

Throgmorton/ Matt, thanks for reminding me, at least, that this is only the first reading, cause
what I was thinking is that it would be good to defer action on this, but when ...when
hear, you know, when I' m reminded that there' s, it' s only the first reading, I' m thinking,
okay, well people will still have a chance to participate but ...uh, I ...I would encourage
you to ... uh, pretty strongly invite members of the public, uh, kind of all over to weigh in
on it, let us know what their views on this particular topic are ... so that we have, we can
have a better sense of what the public in general thinks, uh, not just the people who are
downtown, immediately adjacent to the ped mall day in and day out, cause, you know, I
want to have a sense of the broader community.

Payne/ I ... I can tell you, Jim, that I had a neighbor talk to me about this, one of my neighbors,
that said that he won' t take his girls down there anymore.

Throgmorton/ Yeah, I understand.

Payne / So...( laughs)

Dickens/ I' m averaging between 10 and 20 people a day stopping me on the street. It took me 20
minutes to walk to the bank, which is a block away today, but... since this came out last
week, I would say minimum of 10 to 20 a day, and every one of `em supports what we' re
doing. The ... the most of `em say they don' t come downtown anymore. If they do they
very selective, if they ...they come and go. They don' t stay downtown anymore. So
that' s... that' s what I' m basing mine on is not just my personal because my personal

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would be go for it right away but ... I wanted to listen to as many people as I can and... I
can' t go anywhere in town without `em, because they know I' m downtown, and they' re
it' s like I' m a bullet, and you' ve seen some of the editorials ( laughs) jewelers,
politicians and sorority girls. I guess I' m all but ...two out of three! Um...

Champion/ Are you sure?

Throgmorton/ You' re not a sorority girl! ( laughter)

it' s something that, uh, it' s ... talk about input, that' s
Dickens/ I had three daughters, but uh, it' s ...
probably the most input I' ve had, other than getting a lot of ribbing about the chickens.
This has been very important to people and it ...they want their downtown back.

Champion/ Well when you think about it, we' ve got a big playground down there. We' ve got
our Library down there. The Englert (noises on mic, unable to hear speaker) ... a lot of
family things going on down there, and I wouldn' t want to walk small children past it.

Dickens/ Well, I had my grandkids down there Saturday. We went to the movie on the
pentacrest and we were on the toys and just walking through. The kids all of a sudden
they, you know, they ran out a little ahead, they came back cause they just didn' t feel
comfortable. That' s just their sense. We didn' t say anything to `em. They just came
back so ... it' s ... it' s something that we need to look at.

Dobyns/ And, Terry, I think you' ve been remarkably restrained in commenting, because I know
you' re concerned about being perceived as having a commercial conflict of interest with
this. Urn ...but I appreciate, um, you know, your restraint. Urn ...not quite as restrained

as Connie, um ( laughter) but...

Champion/ I' m going to be restrained the rest of the year! ( laughter)

Dickens/ Is that public record? ( laughter)

Champion/ I' m glad this isn' t televised!

ITEM 2f(2) Iowa City Summer of Solutions: Addressing energy efficiency in Iowa
City rental housing: A recommendation from Our Power.

Hayek/ ... in the minutes! ( laughter) All right. Um ... any other agenda items? I had one.
The ... the Summer of Solutions information that was provided to us on the, uh, this

advocacy group. Is ... is that something that staff intends to look at?

Fruin/ We followed up and we' ve ... we' ve actually met with them. Not me personally but our
staff has.

Hayek/ So at some point we' ll hear from staff on that.

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