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Bill Harris: Welcome again to the Masters of the Secret seminars. His books include: Inspirations of the Heart,
series. I am very glad to be with you again. Today, I have 40 Day Mind Fast Soul Feast and A Manifesto of Peace.
with me Dr. Michael Beckwith of the Agape International In 2003, his work was acknowledged in the congressional
Spiritual Center. Michael and I met in Jack Canfield’s record of the 107th Congress and he has been the recipient
Transformational Leadership Counsel and appeared of numerous humanitarian awards including the 2004
together in the hit DVD movie The Secret. Michael is an Africa Peace Award, the Thomas Kilgore Prophetic
amazing example of a human being living a spiritual as Witness Award, the Howard Thurman Stained Glass
well as a practical life and certainly someone who has Window Award by Morehouse College, a commission to
mastered what people these days are calling the secret and oil portrait for Morehouse’s prestigious Hall of Preachers
the law of attraction. Let me tell you a few things about and the humanitarian award of the National Conference
him before we get started. In the 1970s, Michael began an for Compassion and Justice. He was one of the stars of the
exploration into Eastern and Western spiritual teachings hit DVD movie The Secret and he has recently appeared on
leading him to some amazing realizations. As a result, he Larry King Live and twice on Oprah, speaking about The
began to teach universal truth principles in what many Secret and the law of attraction. I was a guest at his Agape
people called the New Thought Tradition of spirituality International Spiritual Center a couple of Sundays ago
and he does this at his Agape International Spiritual along with about 4,000 other people and I will tell you that
Center in Los Angeles, which he founded in 1986. Some Dr. Michael Beckwith creates an amazing transformational
people see Michael Beckwith as carrying on the work of experience in everyone with whom he comes in contact.
creating spiritual community in the tradition of Martin He has an amazing talent for helping people experience
Luther King. Dr. King’s widow, Coretta Scott King wrote their own inner divinity as well as their spiritual
to him, “I greatly admire what you are doing to bring about connection with other people, with God, and really with
the beloved community, which is certainly what my dear the entire universe. He does this in a very tangible way.
husband worked for and ultimately gave his life.” What is Michael, I am so glad to have you here today.
Enlightenment? magazine described Michael as a ‘non-
aligned trans-religious progressive,’ which sounds a little Michael Beckwith: Bill, it is my pleasure and honor
kinky to me. I will have to ask Michael exactly what that to be here. It is amazing listening to that resume, you
is. He has appeared on international panels with other know, you just do what you do, day to day, moment
peacemakers and spiritual leaders including His Holiness, by moment, to be a beneficial presence on the planet
the Dalai Lama, Dr. T. Ariyarante of Sri Lanka and Arun and you never even think about awards or any of that
Gandhi grandson of Mahatma Gandhi. He is cofounder kind of stuff. We are just here to become our real
of the Association for Global Thought, an organization selves.
dedicated to planetary healing and transformation.
Michael is the originator of the Life Visioning Process, Bill Harris: Well, that may be one of the reasons why
which he teaches throughout the country along with you have made a lot of those awards, because you have
meditation, scientific prayer and the spiritual benefits of not been focusing on them and focusing on actually
selfless service and he facilitates retreats, workshops and doing something.


Michael Beckwith: Absolutely, I think that is the key. or spirit or whatever you want to call it. Some people
are so stuck in…
Bill Harris: So, you know, I am so impressed with
what you do and I am so glad that I was able to actually Michael Beckwith: Well, they are nervous. I think
be there for one of your services. You seem to get into people have identified themselves in a very limited way
a state when you speak that is almost like, I mean, I and in order to touch these other dimensions that we
say this partly tongue in cheek, but it is almost like you are talking about, they have to actually reconstruct their
are channeling and I know that state myself because I identity and it is a very difficult thing to leap into that
get into it sometimes too when I am speaking. What because actually, you used the word extemporaneous,
happens to you when you are speaking? which means out of time, you are absolutely allowing
yourself to move out of time so the eternal can take
Michael Beckwith: It has evolved over the years, but over and for many people it is very scary because they
of course, my life is centered around my meditation are living their lives primarily from memorization.
practice and so, what happens is, I will go up to speak They memorize things, which is like a filing cabinet
and I am just open to the energy of inspiration and rather than being in the flow of the energy, which
transforming knowledge to flow through me. And so, I is spontaneous goodness happening. It is a totally
will begin to speak on whatever the theme is and then different way of being in the world.
at some point, the energy itself, the knowledge itself
about that subject, will begin to pour forth through me Bill Harris: Yeah, you know, I have been a jazz
and I will begin to have a greater understanding, even musician for…
in the moment, of what I want to talk about.
Michael Beckwith: Which you actually understand!
Bill Harris: You know, it is interesting that you would
say that because the same thing happens to me. I Bill Harris: …decades and it is very much like that
almost always speak extemporaneously when I am in because when you are playing a jazz solo, you do not
front of groups and many times some of my best ideas have time to think your way through it. You either are
come while I am speaking. I figure things out or put there and you are playing it and it is coming out of you
things together in new ways that I had not thought or not, but the jazz player, just like a public speaker, has
about before. Does that happen to you too? to pay a price in terms of investigating certain things,
practicing or whatever you want to call it. You know,
Michael Beckwith: Oh absolutely all the time! I call a person cannot just get up there and do what you do
it my surprise. I am not satisfied when I speak unless I without having some preparation, but then, having done
am surprised. I have to be surprised at the new way it is the preparation, you know, you get up there and instead
languaged or a new insight into a new interpretation of it of thinking and analyzing your way through it, you just
and it will surprise me, which means I have been available. let it come out of you and it does.
I have made myself available to the larger knowledge rather
than staying with what I thought I knew. Michael Beckwith: Right. There is a difference
between playing the piano and making music. When a
Bill Harris: Absolutely, you know, one of the things person learns how to play the piano and they go through
that I am teaching my students that a lot of them the scales and they learn all of that. They learn how to
have some trouble with is kind of getting their linear play the piano and then at some point when they release
mind out of the way and letting this other thing come themselves, they are able to make music and this is exactly
through. A kind of tapping into their unconscious mind what you are talking about. My wife, Rickie, often times


calls me that. She says, “You are like a jazz musician up and starts looking at all of the available information
there speaking. You get on a theme and a roll and then a outside of your awareness and then it is just kind of all
theme and then suddenly, that theme will go into an area available there.
that you have never talked about before and it will become
a sweet riff and then it will come back to the original Michael Beckwith: Absolutely, again based on identity,
theme again and then off on another riff and then come you know, if you want to use the language of Jesus, we
back to the same theme again until the night is sewed up would say that we are the light, the light that lights up
and it is this nice song that has been played.” every man and woman that comes into the world or
we could say that we are the holographic expression of
Bill Harris: Yeah. You do something on the stage. I infinite possibility or we could say that we are a singular
mean, you have a completely different style than I have. manifestation of a cosmic destiny. Whatever language
You are much more charismatic than I am and I am a you use, the knowledge is within us and you said
lot into content and you are, I think, more inspirational something very important that no one could just step up
when you speak than I do, but I do something similar there without preparation and that preparation, for me,
to what you do in that, sometimes people will think I is my way of life. My way of life is centered around my
am going far-a-field of where I started, but at the end, meditation, my prayer work, my introspection, my study,
I wrap it all together and anyone listening would think my service. All of those things then become my way of
that it was a thought out talk with a certain structure life, so when I am speaking, I am actually speaking about
and that I had organized it beforehand, but I do not. what I am living. So it is not foreign to my life. I am not
talking about something that I am not living myself.
Michael Beckwith: Right.
Bill Harris: Yeah, I remember Dale Carnegie saying
Bill Harris: And the talk that I heard you give a couple that the big key to public speaking was to speak about
Sundays ago had that same quality. It looked like it was something that you knew something about. You
something you had structured in advance, but I just had know, a lot of people get up and try to give a talk about
this sense that you were doing it in the moment without something they really do not know anything about.
having planned anything other than “I am going to talk
about…” You know? Michael Beckwith: Right.

Michael Beckwith: Right. I know the theme. I know Bill Harris: And that is what happens when you are
the theme because I pick a theme of the month so that in school too. They give you a topic to talk about rather
keeps informing me, but I do not know the topic yet. than having you talk about something that you actually
know something about.
Bill Harris: Well, and that kind of brings us around to
this idea of the secret and the law of attraction because, Michael Beckwith: Something you are passionate about.
you know, I think that when you have a topic that you
are going to talk about, a theme, and you know, you just Bill Harris: Right. Exactly. So, we have kind of,
sort of said to yourself, “Okay. I am going to talk about you know, I did not even mean to go in this direction
that.” You know, “What is going to come out when I necessarily when we started this conversation, but we
talk?” And just by kind of giving yourself that focus, have sort of hit on one of the things that kind of allows
your unconscious mind, or whatever you want to call this thing that people are calling ‘the secret’ to manifest
it, there are a lot of names you could call it, it actually and that has to do with kind of surrendering and trusting
begins to kind of search through all the data banks your unconscious mind and then with the provision, that


of course, you do have to do some kind of preparation you make. The internal dialogue you have. The feelings
in order to have something in there that you can tap in. that you decide to get yourself into. All of those things
So, what ideas do you have about, because I know a lot are really under your control if you exercise that control.
of people have trouble doing this, how would you help So if you get in that open flow state, then it is very easy
someone to allow themself to tap into this? to tap into whatever it is you have prepared by living it
or reading about it or experiencing it or whatever it is.
Michael Beckwith: Well, I teach many of my advanced
students and what I have them do is I take them back into Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. And again, it comes
a place in which they first had either a tremendous healing back to it being a way of life. So, I think that the other
in their life or a tremendous revelation that changed their thing that is very important too is that people will
life and I had them get into that state and describing sometimes think about the audience more than they tap
what they felt like. What was going on when that was into the information that is coming through and I know
occurring? What does that feel like? And begin to make for me, I know the audience is there. I am connected
that particular state very real and then I will give them a with them. I feel them. I appreciate them. I love them.
topic or something to speak about from that state and I There is a love affair going along in my awareness about
say, “Okay. Now just go with it. Do not use the thinking them, but I am not playing for the audience. I am actually
mind here. Just be in the state of that expansion and see making myself receptive to the flow of information and the
what happens. Talk about the healing. Talk about the audience’s receptivity is helping that flow, that connection.
revelation.” And what would inevitably happen is that
person will begin to speak, not from the limited point Bill Harris: Yeah. It is kind of an interesting dynamic
of view from a memory bank, they will begin to speak with an audience because, I mean, when I speak what
from the state itself and ultimately, after a little practice, I do is I purposely expand my awareness to include the
they are able to engage that state and let the information entire audience, but I do not really consciously focus
from that wider paradigm rather than from the smaller on the audience very much, but I know I am always
paradigm. I dare say that everybody listening has had receiving information from the audience that kind of tells
moments of being in the zone, moments of sobriety, me what they might need in terms of the information that
moments of insight after that and revisited and throw I am presenting. And so, there is kind of an energy flow
yourself open to it, they use the word surrender to it, or energy circle between the speaker and the audience,
you will discover much, much knowledge that you are but you are right, you cannot really just focus on the
now deleting thinking that you do not know it. You will audience. You have to just let it come from inside of you.
discover it in that state and you will begin to speak from it.
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. Absolutely. It is
Bill Harris: That is really good advice because it does a powerful state because after awhile, sometimes
have a lot to do with the state you are in and most people I have the experience where the audience, it is not
kind of just allow their state to happen unconsciously. that they disappear, there are two things that happen
They do not intentionally get themselves into whatever indifferently. They are like light. I see it like light
state they want to be in and it is really because they do not and then two, I become aware that there is something
know how to do it. Probably even more fundamental, they needed there. Like you just said. I could be aware that
do not really know that they could do it. somebody over on my left that is wondering how is
this going to be helpful for them to pay their rent? Or
Michael Beckwith: Right. somebody else is concerned about a healing in their life
or something to that effect and then what I will do is
Bill Harris: But, you know, but the internal pictures take what seems to be broad and almost abstract, even


though it is not abstract, it is real, I will bring it into a the possibilities and evaluate all of them in terms of
very concrete example because of that inner nudging. what the desired outcome is and knows exactly what
to do and all of this really happens outside of linear
Bill Harris: Right. Exactly. I know exactly what you thinking and when you tap into this flow state or
mean. Now, most people who are listening to this, I am whatever you want, being in the presence, or whatever
assuming, are probably not public speakers, but this term you want to use. When you tap into that, you, no
same dynamic we are talking about can be used in all matter what you are doing, no matter if it is you are
kinds of areas of life, not just in public speaking. Can dealing with your children or you are at your job or
you help generalize this to some other areas of life? wherever you are, you know just what to do and it is the
right thing to do and it works.
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
What we are talking about is our way of life and so, Michael Beckwith: Yeah. I call it divine compelling
when you begin to live for this flow moving through right action. If something compels you to take a
you, you begin to understand that your mode of being particular action and that which is compelling you is
in the world changes or your reason for waking up beyond your present paradigm, but it is something that
changes and you are not necessarily going to do your you have been courting and longing for and touching
career, you are actually going to provide this energy through your inner work and you end up doing
everywhere you go. You are going to be an avenue of something and you may not logically know why you did
this flow, regardless of what your profession may be. it, but in hindsight you look back and you say, “That
So then you begin to discover that though you may be was the perfect thing to do. I went there and I met this
multitasking in this world, you may be a mother, you person and that person was a part of the flow of this
may be a father, you may have a certain kind of career, project I was working on,” or whatever the scenario
another kind of vocations and avocations, you really may be, but something compelled you to do something
are entering into the space where you are allowing this and that is a very powerful way of living.
energetic flow to occur in whatever it is that you are
doing. So, as you just indicated, it may not be that you Bill Harris: And well, sometimes, it seems as what is
are publicly speaking, but you could be a plumber. You going on, it can seem as if it is negative. You know, I do
know, I had a friend of mine who was a plumber and not know, you crash your car or you lose something or
he would get into this space and he could walk into the something happens that ordinarily you would think was
person’s house and after awhile, he knew exactly what not what you wanted, but then, it turns out that it set up
the problem was and he would go to whatever the pipe something that was exactly what was needed or wanted.
fixture was or whatever the thing was and he would
invariably find out what the issue was and he would Michael Beckwith: Sometimes it is growth
always repair it to a greater degree than what the people experience. Sometimes you have a personal makeup,
were paying him for because it was a part of his life’s a gigantic request of the universe going back to the
work and inevitably, of course, he would be hired back laws of the secret. And in order for that request to
or his particular work blossomed. Everybody wanted be granted, you have to change. And so, what looks
him to work because he was in this flow of energy even like a negative experience was actually the universe
though he was a plumber, he was the best plumber. requalifying you to receive what you have asked for.

Bill Harris: You know, what I have learned over the Bill Harris: Right. Exactly. You know, when a
years is that there is a part of each person that knows negative experience happens, very often the best thing to
exactly what to do in each moment, that can see all of do is to say, “Okay. What qualities do I need to develop


here that would make this into a positive experience?”
Bill Harris: You know, I remember when I was
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. That is exactly it. I had the considerably younger and I had read about a lot of these
opportunity to say that on the Oprah show regarding negative principles in books and I understood them intellectually
experiences and that is the very empowering question. That’s at least pretty well, but I would always find myself after
where our language is very similar. What qualities do I need the fact remembering them instead of when they were
to grow? What qualities do I need to manifest in order to needed and what really turned that around for me was
have peace of mind in this circumstance? meditating and particularly meditating with Holosync,
which is kind of my baby, but whether it is Holosync
Bill Harris: Right. Exactly. or some other kind of meditation, meditation helps
people develop awareness and it takes awareness in
Michael Beckwith: And those qualities begin to order to develop that witness posture where you can see
emerge. They either neutralize the circumstance or what you are doing, what is going on around and that
they change it. is really what I think is a big part of what helps you tap
into that part of you that we were talking about before,
Bill Harris: You know, Napoleon Hill used to that knows exactly what to do and how to evaluate every
say, “Every adversity carries with it the seed of an situation. I know you are a life-long meditator.
equivalent or greater benefit.” And then he would add,
“But you have to look for it and you have to germinate Michael Beckwith: Oh absolutely. Over 30 years.
the seed.” And unfortunately, all too many people The meditation is the key. First of all, meditation is
when something negative happens, instead of looking one of the most powerful technologies for evolution
for that seed of an equivalent or greater benefit, they of consciousness or expanded awareness and choice
just start focusing on what they do not want or do not of a function of awareness and awareness comes via
like about it and then they not only feel bad instantly, meditation. So, I teach and have taught for years that
because when you focus on what you do not want, you there may be many techniques for meditation, but it
instantly feel bad, but then they also then attract…You is still the most powerful technology for awakening
know, they are essentially giving their unconscious awareness and developing that witness state as you just
mind an instruction to create or attract more of the very mentioned and being able to observe yourself, observe
thing they did not want and then they wonder why their everything from a place of non-reaction, which does not
life is circling the drain, so-to-speak. mean detachment, it just means not attaching it to an
outcome. It is a powerful ability.
Michael Beckwith: Yeah. No. You expressed that
absolutely perfectly and what we are developing is Bill Harris: Absolutely and if I had to recommend
the capacity to choose rather than react and if an one thing that people do, I would recommend that
individual can have enough awareness to choose to they meditate because a lot of other things flow from
ask that question, you know, “What lesson is here developing that kind of awareness. And, you know, when
for me? What blessing is here for me? What am I to people see you, for instance, living the life the way you
learn here in this particular experience?” Rather than are and wonder, “Well how does he do that because I feel
going into wishful thinking or fear thinking or worry so chaotic inside?” One of the main things they need to
thinking, they become very empowered by that choice do is quiet their mind and meditation is probably the best
and the universe now opens up tons of opportunities way anyone has ever come up with to do that.
that heretofore we could not have even seen because we
were not asking the right questions. Michael Beckwith: Yeah. I do not know of a


stronger technology. There are many technologies putting something out into the universe. So…
that are very powerful, but meditation is the key and
what I tell people is, “In the beginning, you will try Michael Beckwith: That is the key.
to fit meditation into your life, but as you evolve and
grow, your life will revolve around your meditation.” Bill Harris: …you know. So what you do, you have to
Just as you wake up every day and at some point you take action and the action has to be of value in some way.
would take a shower, you would brush your teeth, you
do certain things your life is revolved around that. Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. Now, I love what you
Meditation will become just as important and you will are saying because I often tell individuals that I do not
not go through your day without a shower or a bath or believe in magical thinking. This is not about magic and
brushing your teeth, you will not go through your day it is not magical thinking, it is not wishful thinking and it
without that appointment with the Infinite. not really positive thinking. It is really placing yourself
in a position to have an affirmative realization of what
Bill Harris: Absolutely. Just like you would not to sow in this magnificent, elegant universe and then
skip a meal or go a day without eating, unless you had walking in the direction of that. I often define faith as
some reason for it, you were fasting or something. being out there where the action is with all systems go.
You would not go without meditation too. Let’s get In other words, if you really have faith, then you are also
back to the idea of The Secret because a lot of people, taking the action that says you have faith. So you are out
you know, are talking about that lately. One of the there where the action is with all systems go, knowing
criticisms of The Secret has been that it, what has been that everything is working together for your good. So,
emphasized about it almost seems like magic and I it is not just sitting around waiting for something to
really do not think it is magic and I think it is almost happen. It is walking in the direction of your prayer work
a…you know, there is a certain amount of people knowing that it has already happened in the mind of God
who are having trouble in life and they really would and in the mind of the universe. So, I am right with that.
love there to be some sort of magic that where they I think that The Secret as a vehicle, is a wonderful vehicle
do not really have to do anything, all they have to do to really bring this conversation to a larger audience and
is wish and hope for things and they will get it. One to a mainstream conversation. It has done its job there.
of the things that bothered me about The Secret was It was a very colloquial and parochial introduction into
that it de-emphasized two things that I think are very the laws, very primary, and therefore, it could not cover
important. So I would like your ideas on this. You everything that we would cover in class or something like
know, obviously everything begins with how you focus that, but it does get people to thinking that they can begin
your mind and so that part of it is really important. to have dominion over their life. They do not have to be
When you focus your mind on something, it gives you a victim to circumstances or situations. They can change
ideas about how to create it or get it. It motivates you. their life thus changing their experiences and so, I think it
It causes you to notice resources in your environment has been a very good vehicle and some people that could
that you could use to get it and it causes you to tap look at it and think we are talking about wishful thinking
into or develop internal resources that you may not of some sort and that could not be further from the truth.
have been manifesting so far, but then, the second step It is about developing a way of life, making declarations,
in my opinion, is you have to then take action. And intentions, using the creative imagination, watching your
the third aspect is that the action has to be of value to conversations, watching the company that you keep.
someone. I mean, if people are looking for something You know, look at who you are around. Are the people
back as a result of using the secret, you are not going you are around going or at the place where you want to
to get something back from the universe unless you are be in life? You know? What kind of conversations flow


out of their mouth? So, it is a whole matter of strategies be involved with what you are about to do, start to
that when applied, will change your life and change your come into your life or sometimes you start to notice
circumstances. that they have been in your life all the time, but you did
not even really notice their value or their importance
Bill Harris: You know, in a way, it often boils down to and the camaraderie that was there. It is just like many
the fact that people do not really realize how powerful their years ago when I shifted more towards vegetarianism,
mind is. I started noticing all these vegetarian restaurants.
I thought they had just been built. You know? I
Michael Beckwith: Right. remember I was a young man in my 20s and I went
into one restaurant and I said, “Oh my god! How long
Bill Harris: You know, they do not really realize that have you been here? This is beautiful!” and they said,
whatever you are focusing your mind on and particularly “Twenty years.” I had been driving that route for years
if you are adding strong emotion and even more as a young man and I had never noticed that restaurant!
particularly if you are taking action on it, your mind I had only noticed the Fat Burger, you see? But as soon
really can attract or create anything. Not without taking as I shifted my intentions, I noticed that particular
action certainly, but, you know, some people think that if restaurant that had been there for years! Almost as
they focus on wealth that a dump truck full of gold coins many years as I was old and it just opened that up and
is going to come and drop its load in their driveway or that is what happens to people. Intentions will allow
something. I do not see that happening for anybody, you to see things that are perhaps already in your life as
but, certainly, if you think about wealth, you are going to a resource that you do not even know about.
figure out how to get it if you are willing to pay the price
to get it. The thing people do not get is that they are Bill Harris: Yeah. Everyone has had the experience,
already powerfully manifesting whatever they are placing you know, buying a car and then suddenly you notice all
their intention on. It is not that people are not good at of the other cars that are the same kind and you were
creating what they focus on, it is that people’s focusing not noticing them before. I mean, that is a mundane
process is going on autopilot. You know, so people have example, but when you decide that you are going to
to take it from autopilot to doing it intentionally and start a business or that you want to create something
consciously. in your life, all of a sudden, if you pay attention,
there are all of these, you know, you hear a snatch of
Michael Beckwith: Yes. Yes. conversation. Somebody is talking about the very thing
that you want to do, but are not quite sure how to do.
Bill Harris: That is the trick. So you walk over and say, “Excuse me, but you were just
mentioning investing and I am just learning to do that.
Michael Beckwith: No. That is the trick, because people Can I talk to you about it?” Or you go into a book store
are basically a living self-prophecy of their ambient focus. and suddenly here are all these books that you did not
even know existed, but suddenly just almost jump off
Bill Harris: Absolutely. the shelf into your hand because you suddenly changed
your focus to something you wanted.
Michael Beckwith: And once you can begin to take
dominion over your focus and establish intention, Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. Now, this is very
as you indicated earlier, you start to see other important because we all have different ways of saying
opportunities you did not notice before. You start to this, but sometimes we will say that the human being
magnetize yourself so that people that could possibly is a deletion machine that is deleting so much of


reality and only participating in a very narrow band or why it is happening or wonder why they are…I call it
frequency of it. And so that through our focus and our driving through life with your brakes on. You have all
resolve, our attention and commitment, we begin to of these positive things you want to do, but you cannot
notice a greater frequency, a greater band of reality that get going because your mind is really stuck and focused
is here all the time, but we have deleted most of it! on all of the things that you hope do not happen.

Bill Harris: Yes. There are actually more than 20 Bill Harris: Yes. I mean, it is amazing how people can
different deletion filters that people have in their mind filter out all of the possibilities and then it looks as if
and I forget what the statistic is, but there is, you know, there are none.
millions of bits of information that come in through
your senses in every moment and less than a tenth of Michael Beckwith: Absolutely, which we live in
a percent of them people actually focus on. One of the this magnificent universe where there are infinite
things that I teach people to do is to use these filters opportunities. So, if you are not seeing any, you are
intentionally so that you… and that is another thing definitely looking through a glass darkly. Some people
that you turn over to that part of you that knows exactly cannot even receive a compliment.
what to do, but you have to look at these filters and play
with them and study them and, you know, what I like Bill Harris: And you know, the only way you can do
to say is play around with them and pretty soon you get this, really, is to be unconscious because the results
to the point where in any given situation, you can filter of focusing on what you do not want, what you are
things in exactly the way that gives you the information afraid of, what you are worried about, what you want
that you need to accomplish what you are trying to to avoid, are so terrible that if a person does that with
accomplish. And it happens completely seamlessly. It awareness, does it consciously, they cannot keep doing
does not happen through effort. It does not happen in it. They cannot continue. And so, that kind of thinking
your linear mind either. So, anyone can learn to control just falls away. That is why I think that meditation and
their mind if they really are willing to pay the price to developing awareness is so important.
learn how it works.
Michael Beckwith: Yeah. You are speaking my
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. Just paying the price language because that which was unconscious is now
and the other thing that is very important, because becoming conscious, which is what spiritual growth
we are deletion machines… I do not really like the and development is really all about. Bringing that
word machine, but, you know, a deletion being, as which you do not know about, which is unconscious,
indicated earlier, many people are just focusing on the into your awareness and once you shine your light of
thing they do not want to happen so they are deleting awareness of it, it brings it up by the root. It no longer
everything except for the possibility of this negative has power over you because now it is conscious. You
thing occurring. And then if they take an action and see it coming.
prepare themselves against the negative thing occurring
with emotion, they end up actually creating the energy Bill Harris: Yeah. People wonder why they keep
of the thing that they are preparing against because that doing the same dysfunctional thing over and over again
is where their attention is, that is where their energy and the reason is that they are doing it unconsciously
is flowing, that is where their emotion is and they are and there is an interesting distinction here because
actually using this mind, which could be an avenue of most people that have been in personal growth for
awareness for such beauty, they are using it as a way to awhile, could write a book about their stuff. They
magnetize negativity to themselves and then wonder cognitively, intellectually, they know they are doing


whatever it is, but they are not watching themself do it “Look. If you sat down to learn to play the piano, you
with awareness. They have a way of going unconscious would not expect to play a Beethoven piano sonata the
and doing it. So knowing that you are doing something first time. You would have to play Twinkle Twinkle
is not the same as doing it with awareness. Little Star at first or something.” And so, you know,
be okay with there being a learning curve and if you
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. I wish to help are just having fun playing with it, you can just keep
people break the habit of cigarette smoking by that doing it. That is why little kids learn to play the piano
very process. Instead of them being unconscious just so easily because they are not so critical of themselves.
lighting up cigarette after cigarette, I said, “No, do not They are willing to be beginners for a little while. So,
stop smoking cigarettes. Take the cigarette and enjoy you might have to be a beginner of being aware of
every single puff. Be aware of the smell on your fingers. yourself too and that is okay.
Be aware of the smell of the smoke getting into your
clothes. Be aware of the smoke going into your lungs Michael Beckwith: I think it is very important and
and what the process of that is doing to your body. this whole concept of play, of playing with it, takes the
Just be totally aware of you absolutely smoking that angst and the seriousness out of it. You can actually
entire cigarette and then perhaps even be aware of the play a game. How long can I stay aware before I go
feeling that you have right before you start smoking the unconscious about any particular behavior or thought
cigarette.” pattern? And as you just indicated, as you do it more
as a play rather than as this serious thing, I am going to
Bill Harris: Yeah. That feeling of anxiety. try to become enlightened, you get much more benefit
from it. There is a freeing of energy and I will always
Michael Beckwith: Right. Fear. And you will begin remember John Randolph Price. His wife, when she
to discover that that is a compulsive behavior that you came back from a near death experience, said that while
are using to block yourself from feeling your fear and she was dead and on the other side, they told her that
once you become aware of that and you learn that you the vibration of play and the vibration of pray were
can be in fear and still do what you have to do anyway, very, very similar. That when you are praying and you
the cigarette smoking will fall off because it does not are playing you are in that wide open, creative, grateful,
have any payoff any more. So… all things are possible state and so, this whole idea of
playing with it is very close to being in a real state of
Bill Harris: Absolutely. Absolutely. prayer and observation and much more benefit comes
from that rather than trying to do this thing seriously.
Michael Beckwith: So awareness itself has broken
the habit of many people doing many compulsive Bill Harris: Yeah, and you know, if you are playing
behaviors. the game of okay, how long can I remain aware before
I go unconscious and then you discover, “Oh darn it! I
Bill Harris: Right and in teaching this to people, one went unconscious!”…part of the playing aspect of it is
of the things that happens sometimes is that people try that you do not then beat yourself up for it. There is
this, they set out to become more aware of something just no point in lashing yourself for being human. I
they are doing, and at first it is not that easy for them just got an advance copy of a book by Dennis Genpo
because they are just not used to paying attention and Roshi, who is the highest ranked Zen master who is not
they try it and it does not seem to work and then they Japanese in the world. He lives in Boulder, Colorado.
say, “Oh, I have tried that and it did not work.” And He is a friend of Ken Wilber’s and I met him through
then they quit trying it and, you know, I try to tell them, Ken and he is so willing to be human that in this book


he reveals the fact… I mean, here he is, you know, this where you are now. Can you tell a little bit? I know
Zen master, but he is revealing the fact that he has all it is a long story, but sort of just give the highlights of
of the same feelings, all of the same doubts, all of the where you came and…
same stumbles, all of these things that other people do.
He is not trying to put himself on a pedestal and claim Michael Beckwith: And I will tell you that this kind
some sort of perfection, but he has learned not to beat of consciousness is I think within all of us, but I can
himself up over the fact that he is a human being. remember my own story as trying to emerge through us.
I mean, we are progressive beings, so the consciousness
Michael Beckwith: He has compassion. of this expanded awareness is always trying to break
through. And first of all, I remember at age 11, I remember
Bill Harris: Yes. I think you first have to have having the experience of being in the expanded state and
compassion for yourself before you can have it for in choosing to stay in a small state so that I would be my
other people and, you know, I just kind of flashed to mother’s son, my uncle’s nephew, my grandmother’s
that when you were talking about it because he is such grandson. I remember that conscious thought that I did
a great example of that and people are so hard on not want them to know about this state and then later on
themselves when they… in high school, I remember being on the radio program
called Kids Stay in School and this energy passed through
Michael Beckwith: Which is an ego trip basically. It me and it was very articulate and very powerful and I
is one of the ways that the ego traps you into staying in would shut it down in order to be mediocre, in order to fit
that present identity is to get you flustered and angry at in with the rest of the high school students. And then later
your mistakes rather than just laughing at yourself and on as a young adult attending college, I remember going
doing a do-over. into the dark side a little bit and selling marijuana and I
can remember on my very last dope deal, getting arrested
Bill Harris: You know, that reminds me of something and right before that I had a major spiritual opening
else I wanted to ask you about. You know, I am sure where I was killed and when I woke up the next morning,
this happens to you, but I have a lot of people saying I could see that we were surrounded by this universal
to me, as I communicate with them, “Well it is easy for presence that at the time I called love beauty. And it loved
you to say that because, you know, you are really good me at my core and continues to still do so and it is more
at it or you are really advanced or whatever.” And I beautiful than I could possibly even express or describe. It
have to point out to them that I did not spring out of is everywhere, in every animate and inanimate object or
the womb this way. In fact, I was quite unhappy and being is just engulfed in this undulation of love and beauty
quite miserable a number of years ago and I got to and life. And I went to court, and I was in that zone going
where I am, and I am certainly not claiming that I am into court, and I had already got the inner validation that I
finished or anything, but I got to where I am by a lot of was not going to go to jail for what I had done and so I was
hard work and a lot of hard play as you might say. totally unconcerned about the trial. I was reading books
on meditation. Meditating in the courtroom while my
Michael Beckwith: Right! Play it hard! Play it hard! attorneys were doing their thing and ultimately of course,
it was thrown out of court based on a technicality that
Bill Harris: And so anyway, and in the beginning, I they had used an informant and the informant refused
was doing the same thing we were talking about. I was to come to court. I mean, I am giving a long story very
beating myself up and doing a lot of these things that short, but I came out of that space of this young man who
we kind of caution people to not do. Anyway, I know was selling marijuana based on a thoughtful scarcity,
that you came from a place that was not anything like not enough opportunities, not enough to go around so I


resorted to that to pay my tuition and also to have a stash did not manifest. They were just latent.
of my own, and opened up into a whole larger paradigm
of there is more than enough good to go around. There Bill Harris: Absolutely, and you know, we are not
are plenty of opportunities. There is never scarcity in saying to people to seek out negative experiences.
this multidimensional universe. There is only a scarcity
of ideas, and based on a faulty notion of life and I never Michael Beckwith: Absolutely.
looked back. I have never looked back and so I absolutely
appreciate those moments of darkness, those moments of Bill Harris: And you do not need to. Enough of them
making decisions through the darkness because I learned will come your way without having to seek them out.
such valuable lessons. I do not judge myself and I do not That is just the way the universe is, but, you know, but
judge other people and the mistakes and the missteps then there is something you have to do when you have
that they make and today, I see that there are nothing but these experiences because some people do what we were
opportunities everywhere and possibilities and I live in the talking about earlier. They just focus on what they are
possibility and hope other people do the same. And if I fall afraid of, focus on what they are worried about. Those
and stumble, I am not going to beat myself up. Whoops! people generally do not get as much, at least, out of those
Slipped! Get back up! experiences, but if you go to the, you know, what do I
have to be grateful for here? Or what is the seed of an
Bill Harris: Yes! And even a Michael Beckwith can equivalent or greater benefit in this or what do I need
slip. Anybody can slip. And you know the interesting to learn here? You know, in some way, you ask yourself
thing that you alluded to, is that the slips are often the those kinds of questions, then you can take those things
most valuable experiences. You know, it has always and make them into a huge, huge opportunity to get more
seemed to me that there is more information in a inline with this presence that we have been talking about.
misstep in a way, than there is in doing something right.
Michael Beckwith: Well, what we are just talking
Michael Beckwith: You know, you are really speaking about here too is to come out of wishful thinking and
my language here because I tell the folks at Agape all often times, people, when they enter into a tough
the time, that when you look back on your life, when situation, they will wish they were not there. They will
did you grow the most? When you had a challenge or wish that they were someone else or they will wish they
when you did not have a challenge? had not done what they had done to get there and so,
wishful thinking does not really bring you any insight.
Bill Harris: Exactly. Once you say, “What is it that I can learn from this
situation? How can I grow from this situation? What
Michael Beckwith: And when you were on the quality has to emerge for me to have peace of mind?”
challenge and you did not know how to get around it Now you have moved out of wishful thinking and you
or how to get over it or how to get under it, you were have asked a very empowering question and because the
forced to grow spiritually and when everything is universe will answer any question you place out there,
just smoothly going along, no challenges, everything you now become a candidate for insight.
is hunky-dory, you are not forced to grow. I am not
saying that you are not going to meditate, you are not Bill Harris: You know, let me tell really quickly a long
going to pray, but when that challenge comes up and story that I will make short about how Centerpointe got
forces you to go to another level, you find dimensions started. The first year after I started Centerpointe, we,
and resources and powers and capabilities within your it was not even a we, it was just me, actually I did have a
soul that, because they were not called on before, they partner at that time. Anyway, we had sold $12,000 worth


of Holosync in that year and then a competitor sued us for over the next two weeks, I listed 60 some benefits and I wish
a million dollars and I was waking up in the middle of the I still had that list. It got lost somewhere, but every one of
night with anxiety attacks, sitting up in bed with my heart them came true and it is because I focused on them instead
racing because I did not have very much money. The of all of the negative stuff.
only thing I had was a house. I was afraid it was going to
get taken away from me. I did not know anything about Michael Beckwith: You thought outside your normal
the legal system or law suits or anything like that and I paradigm.
went to my attorney and I said, “How much is this likely
to cost?” And, by the way, it was a completely frivolous Bill Harris: Exactly.
lawsuit, but that does not matter-- a lot of time in lawsuits
whether it is frivolous or not, they are still expensive and Michael Beckwith: So you got to have the inspiration
stressful. But anyway, I asked my attorney what this from the God mind flow through you. I tell the
could cost and he said, “Well, you are probably going to congregation, I quoted for instance, the queen in Alice
find out why they say, ‘Don’t make a federal case out of In Wonderland, where she says, “Believe at least 10
it.’ Because this could cost you $150,000 in legal fees if it impossible things before breakfast.” And I will say, you
goes all the way.” And my partner said, “This is not worth know, wake up and before you have breakfast, just start
defending with $150,000 and we do not have that anyway. believing 10 impossible thing. It could be personal or
We should just fold the tent and, you know, quit.” And I in the global space and get into that space of actually
said to myself, “Hmm, what would this company look like believing that and then the kind of thoughts from that
if it was worth defending with $150,000 worth of legal realm will begin to come through you and you will
fees?” And I began thinking about what a company of that understand that why it is written that with God, all things
kind would look like and today, it is exactly like that! are possible because you will be thinking from the God
paradigm rather than from the merely human paradigm.
Michael Beckwith: Right.
Bill Harris: Yeah. Lewis Carroll was a mystic.
Bill Harris: But I never would have went through that
thought process if I had not been sued and by the way, Michael Beckwith: Absolutely! I mean…
my partner, who was actually the partner from hell, very
negative person, he actually, I bought his half of the company Bill Harris: He was an amazing guy.
for one dollar because he wanted out and those two things
really, really, really is what started Centerpointe. It would Michael Beckwith: Absolutely! Ten impossible
not be here today if it had not been for that and I would things before breakfast.
not have had all of the, you know, the life that I have and
the other thing that I did, coincidentally, when the sheriff Bill Harris: That is a good idea. That is an excellent,
came to my door and said, “Someone does not like you excellent idea. So I am wondering now, in light of all
very much.” and had me sign for this lawsuit, I, right at that of this stuff that we had discussed Michael, you know,
moment, I had been reading for about the 30th time, Think there are a lot of people who are listening to this,
and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, and one of the things he probably, that feel stuck, that are not sure what to do
stresses is what I said earlier, “Every adversity occurs with a exactly. They hear us talk about these things, but they
seed of an equivalent or greater benefit.” I went down into are not sure really what exactly to do first. What advice
my basement, to my little office, and I started making a list of do you give to people in terms of what to do first?
all of the potential benefits of being sued for a million dollars
and at first I could not think of very many, but ultimately, Michael Beckwith: Of course, it would always be


dependent upon the person that is sitting in front of me and essentially what you said is, by writing down what you
that I feel would be beneficial for them, but in a general want you are getting people to focus on where they want to
sense, if a person is stuck and not living the life that they go and then you said, and get into the feelings of it second
feel they are ordained to live, I would begin to just write and then take action and then of course, you mentioned
down, first of all, the life they want to live. Just begin meditation, which is what opens your awareness more,
to describe it. The law basically says that you do not what expands your awareness. One of the things I like to
describe what you see, you see what you describe and suggest to people is that they use, what I call, the magic
so you begin to describe that life. You do not have to question, which is, “How can I?” Any time, whatever
believe it at first, just to describe the kind of life you want situation you are in, you know, if your house just exploded,
to live and then read it on a regular basis and then you if your car was just wrecked, whatever has happened,
take that description and you begin to feel what it would positive or negative, you could always then say, “Okay. I
feel like if you were living that kind of life. What would am here right now. This has happened. How can I…?”
it feel like if I actually lived a life in which my finances, and then you fill in the blank with what you want to
that particular structure, was stabilized in my life and I accomplish then and when you do that, your mind just
was prosperous? What would it begin to feel like if I was starts sending you ideas for how to do it.
surrounded by loving associates? What would it begin to
feel like if I was very healthy and robust and energetic? Michael Beckwith: Absolutely.
And then, you take an action, you say, “If I really believe
in this, what action would I need to take to prove to myself Bill Harris: It works like a charm and it is so simple
that I believe that?” Now the rub is this—the action that most people, you know, think that I must be
can be real or symbolic. The mind does not know the kidding or something.
difference between a real and symbolic action. So if you
begin to take an action like that, it begins to recalibrate Michael Beckwith: But you are invoking the law that
your nervous system and it speeds up the day when you states, “Ask and you shall receive.”
begin to see what you are describing and as we talked
about earlier, then you are open and receptive to hunches, Bill Harris: Absolutely.
intuition, gut feelings, out-of-the-blue kind of thoughts,
and of course they are not coming out of the blue, they Michael Beckwith: If you do not ask, you are not
are coming from the mind of God. It is called inspiration. going to receive. So if you ask, “How can I do this?” the
You begin to be inspired from another realm that you universe will start bringing you all kinds of scenarios
have not been inhabiting because you have been focusing as how you can do that. You keep asking, you know,
your attention on what you do not have. So those are just “How did I get into this situation and why is this always
very basic things. If a person would begin to do that on a happening to me and why me?” So the universe will
regular basis, even waking up in the morning and reading start giving you those scenarios as well.
that list and feeling it or before they go to bed at night,
reading it and feeling that and of course, beginning some Bill Harris: That is what I was just going to say because,
kind of meditation practice. If you do that, you will begin you know, if you say to yourself, “What is wrong with me?”
to notice, month after month, subtle changes happening or “How did I get into this situation?” Your mind will create
in your awareness, subtle changes happening in your a plausible answer for that even if it is not an accurate
habits, the way you think and of course, your life will answer. If you say, “What is wrong with me?” Your mind
begin to change ultimately. will think, “Okay. I am supposed to tell him what is wrong
with him.” And it will come up with a bunch of things. But if
Bill Harris: Wow! That is a great series of instructions you say, “What is right with me? What is good about this?” it


will doe the same thing. So, it is really a choice that people really appreciate you. You are not the great exception.
often do not exercise as to where to put your attention. You are the great example and I think that is the message
to everybody listening is that anyone can align themselves
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely! Absolutely! with this and why not? What else is there to do?
Empowering questions lead to empowered lives.
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely. I would concur with that
Bill Harris: Yeah. In some way, when you are feeling and I would throw it right back at you. You are a powerful
unhappy and stuck and all of this can seem so difficult example of living an empowered, wonderfully spirit filled,
and so impossible, but really, once you get aligned with enthusiastic, generous life and I appreciate you in my life.
this, you realize, “This is so simple!”
Bill Harris: Well, I feel the same way. Thank you so
Michael Beckwith: Yes! much for being here Michael and to everyone listening, I
thank you for being here and I look forward to being with
Bill Harris: The universe is really a very easy place to you again and again. Thank you so much for listening
live in once you get aligned with this law, this idea that to this conversation with another of the Masters of The
you have a choice about where to put your attention. Secret. I know this information will help you master
the secret yourself. The fact that what you focus on is
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely! created in reality. To thank you for listening, I have a very
special free gift for you. As I have worked to master the
Bill Harris: It is just a matter of exercising the choice. secret and implement it in my own life, one of the most
powerful tools I have used is Holosync audio technology,
Michael Beckwith: Absolutely! which when listened to using stereo headphones, places
the listener in deep states of meditation, literally at the
Bill Harris: Well, you know, we are pretty much at the touch of a button. In addition to many mental, emotional
end of our time here Michael. This has been really, really and spiritual benefits, Holosync creates an ability to focus
wonderful to have this time with you and to speak with your mind so powerfully, that manifesting what you want
another like-minded person like this. Do you have any becomes easy. I would like to send you a free Holosync
parting comments that you want to leave people with? CD so you can try it yourself along with a free special
report explaining how it works and all of the amazing
Michael Beckwith: What I would always like to leave benefits it has created for nearly 300,000 people who
people with is that the field is wide unto the harvest have used it in 173 countries. To get your free Holosync
where they are concerned. There are infinite possibilities CD just go to,
and do not limit themselves by thinking too small. Begin remember to put ‘the’ in front of the Masters of the Secret.
to think larger than they have ever thought before. I go Thanks again for listening and I look forward to being
back to the statement, “Believe at least six impossible with you again next time.
things before breakfast.” And then watch as that
paradigm keeps expanding and those new thoughts keep
rushing in and inspiring you to do great things.

Bill Harris: That is great! That is great! Well, I guess

my final thought is, that as I talk to you, what I notice is
that you are just a great example of what actually happens
when you do align yourself with this truth and as that, I