919 Transcript of Hearing - July 29, 2019

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1 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT
2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
3 Case No. 16-13569-scc
4 Adv. Case No. 18-01632-scc
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6 In the Matter of:
8 919 PROSPECT AVENUE LLC,
10 Debtor.
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12 919 PROSPECT AVE LLC,
13 Plaintiff,
14 v.
15 DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT,
16 Defendant.
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Veritext Legal Solutions

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1 United States Bankruptcy Court
2 One Bowling Green
3 New York, NY 10004
5 July 29, 2019
6 3:00 PM
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21 B E F O R E :
22 HON SHELLEY C. CHAPMAN
23 U.S. BANKRUPTCY JUDGE
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25 ECRO: SHEA

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1 HEARING re Doc #190 Motion for Damages for Creditor
2 Misconduct against the Urban Justice Center filed by Avrum
3 J. Rosen on behalf of 919 Prospect Ave LLC
5 Doc #193 Application for Final Professional Compensation for
6 Lorraine Nadel, Trustee's Attorney
8 Doc #192 Application for Final Professional Compensation for
9 Avrum J. Rosen Debtor's Attorney
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11 Doc #195 Application for Final Professional Compensation of
12 Gazes LLC and for Trustees Commissions for Ian J. Gazes,
13 Trustee's Attorney
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16 CBIZ Accounting, Tax & Advisory of New York, LLC and CBIZ,
17 Inc., Financial Advisors to the Chapter 11 Trustee for
18 Derrelle M. Janey, Accountant
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21 Gottlieb & Janey LLP as Substitute General Counsel to the
22 Trustee for Derrelle M. Janey, Trustee's Attorney
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2 MYC & Associates, Inc. as Property Manager to the Chapter 11
3 Trustee for Derrelle M. Janey, Other Professional
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25 Transcribed by: Sonya Ledanski Hyde

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S :
6 GOTTLIEB & JANEY
7 Attorney for the U.S. Trustee
8 Trinity Building
9 111 Broadway, Suite 701
10 New York, NY 10006
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12 BY: DERRELLE M. JANEY
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14 MYC & ASSOCIATES
15 Attorney for Ian J. Gazes
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17 BY: VICTOR MONEYPENNY
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19 APTEK RESTORATION INC.
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21 BY: SMAN BHUTTA
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23 GAZER LLC
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25 BY: IAN GAZER

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1 ROSEN & KANTROW, PLLC
2 Attorneys for the Debtor
3 38 New Street
4 Huntington, NY 11743
6 BY: AVRUM J. ROSEN
8 STROOCK & STROOCK & LAVAN LLP
9 Attorney for Tenants
10 180 Maiden Lane
11 New York, NY 10038-4982
12
13 BY: JASON M. PIERCE
14 KENNETH PASQUALE
15
16 URBAN JUSTICE CENTER
17 Attorney for Urban Justice Center and
18 Co-Counsel to the Tenants
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20 BY: SHEREIF GABER
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE COURT: Please have a seat.
3 MR. ROSEN: Thank you.
4 THE COURT: All right. The, this was originally
5 scheduled as a hearing (indiscernible), and in lieu of that,
6 we’re having a conference today, that I intend to be
7 comprehensive, because I want this case to be closed. And
8 I’ve gone through what it will take to get the case closed.
9 So, that’s what we’re going to talk about today. Mr. Rosen,
10 you look perplexed.
11 MR. ROSEN: No, Your Honor. I’m not perplexed.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. ROSEN: Actually, I just have something wrong
14 with my eye, and it’s throbbing a little bit. I’m sorry
15 (indiscernible).
16 THE COURT: I’m sorry.
17 MR. ROSEN: I just took some drops.
18 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So, let me start
19 with some of the quote on quote easier things. There is
20 currently, pending an adversary proceeding, number 18-01634,
21 the debtor against Harley Plumbing and Heating. Right, Mr.
22 Rosen?
23 MR. ROSEN: Yes, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: All right. And we have a trial
25 scheduled for October of 2019.

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2 THE COURT: Okay. And in the absence of there
3 being a settlement of that adversary proceeding, we’re going
4 to have that trial in October of 2019.
5 MR. ROSEN: That’s our plan, Your Honor. We’re
6 ready.
7 THE COURT: Okay. All right. The, the pendency
8 of an adversary proceeding does not preclude closing a main
9 case and issuing a final decree.
10 MR. ROSEN: If you say so, Judge, okay.
11 THE COURT: Yes. I say so. In fact, I have done
12 that in numerous instances. And it’s not practical in some
13 instances, but it’s practical in this instance, because the
14 recovery, any recovery that the debtor would receive would
15 remain with the debtor. So, there are no practical
16 impediments to doing that. Indeed, even if, even if the
17 proceeds were somehow to be distributed, that wouldn’t be an
18 impediment.
19 So, I know that that’s out there, and I don’t mean
20 to suggest that I intend to do anything else with respect to
21 that. There was the case that has been in existence from
22 the very beginning, and that’s the case that was transferred
23 from the district court in January of 2017. The last thing
24 on the docket in that particular adversary proceeding, which
25 is number 17-01009 is the tenant petitioner’s emergency

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1 motion for abstention and (indiscernible). So, if, to the
2 extent that that -- well, let me ask you. What do you, what
3 do you folks believe is the status of that particular
4 matter?
5 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, since that, since the
6 grounds that that moved for the appointment of the 7A
7 administrative (indiscernible), I think have, have all been
8 cured. I think it’s good.
9 THE COURT: I agree.
10 MR. PASQUALE: More to the point -- Ken Pasquale,
11 from (indiscernible), the tenants, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Yeah.
13 MR. PASQUALE: More to the point, at my
14 recollection -- I didn’t pull it up in this moment -- but
15 that, the plan provides that that would be that would be
16 dismissed without prejudice.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. PASQUALE: So, that’s what we should do. If
19 we need to have a formal stipulation, we can do that.
20 THE COURT: So, that’s what, so, okay. So, yes.
21 So, that’s what you should do.
22 MR. ROSEN: I concur, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So, that, that
24 takes care of that one. There was -- is Ms. (indiscernible)
25 here today? No, okay. There was adversary proceeding

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1 number 18-01632, which was the debtor against HPD.
2 MR. ROSEN: And that’s been dismissed.
3 THE COURT: And that’s been dismissed.
4 MR. ROSEN: And I did not file an appeal.
5 THE COURT: And you did not file an appeal.
6 MR. ROSEN: So, that’s the final order, Your
7 Honor.
8 THE COURT: Right. Okay. So far, so good. Then
9 there is the fully briefed cross motions for summary
10 judgement in the (indiscernible) relocation agreement,
11 adversary proceeding. Correct?
12 MR. PASQUALE: Yes, Your Honor.
13 MR. ROSEN: Yes.
14 THE COURT: Okay. And my question on that one has
15 to do with -- and I haven’t done the, the comparison. But
16 it’s unclear to me what’s still in play, with respect to
17 NCIs that are covered by that, those cross motions, in light
18 of the disposition of the HPD adversary proceeding. In
19 other words --
20 MR. ROSEN: I got it.
21 THE COURT: Do you understand my questions?
22 MR. ROSEN: Absolutely.
23 THE COURT: (indiscernible) guidelines have
24 passed. I ruled that 108 didn’t help you, etcetera.
25 MR. ROSEN: I understand, Your Honor. I’m not

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1 sure, in terms of some of the other ones that are still out
2 there, of the time periods (indiscernible). As I stand here
3 --
4 THE COURT: Yeah.
5 MR. ROSEN: -- I don’t know the answer to the
6 question, but I understand the question, and I can try and
7 get an answer to it.
8 THE COURT: All right. I mean, it’s in the spirit
9 of -- I didn’t want to render it an advisory opinion, to the
10 extent that, again, certain issues are moot, because of the
11 ruling and the HPD adversary proceeding, then that would
12 have an impact on what’s actually --
13 MR. ROSEN: I understand, Your Honor. But
14 there’s, there’s -- I’m not sure about the, I’m not sure
15 that that was the only thing in play there. I haven’t
16 looked at that in quite a while, so...
17 THE COURT: Okay. That’s fine. I don’t mean to
18 do anything by ambush. What you wanted in that, what you’re
19 asking for in the adversary are three things. One, you
20 wanted interpretation of the language around the issue of
21 what work was done within the apartment walls, with respect
22 to certain units.
23 MR. ROSEN: Correct.
24 THE COURT: Secondly, you wanted a declaration
25 that the, the relocation agreements were unenforceable,

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1 because there was, there were, they were not approved,
2 pursuant to rule 9019. And third, in kind of a kitchen sink
3 argument, you ask on equitable grounds or latches and the
4 like, that the tenants be precluded from arguing that the
5 debtor can’t apply for rent increases. So, (indiscernible),
6 so, so I don’t want to put you on --
7 MR. ROSEN: Right. The last one was kind of my
8 repercussions of if there was a breach of the plan, what --
9 do they still get the quid pro quo for it? That was, I
10 think the last argument.
11 THE COURT: Well, I --
12 MR. ROSEN: That’s the one I want to look at.
13 THE COURT: Yeah. I think -- so, so, hold that
14 thought. I think that at the end of the day today, you’re
15 going to have a more far ranging assignment. But one of the
16 things that you’re going to have to do is to re-look at that
17 and decide what it is that’s still live and what it is that
18 you really want me to decide.
19 MR. ROSEN: Understood, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Very good. All right. So,
21 then, we get down to the things that are truly live. One is
22 all the fee applications, to which the debtor has objected.
23 And the second is the motion finding certain name parties in
24 contempt of the confirmation order. With respect to the fee
25 applications, generally speaking, with respect to fee

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1 applications, when there are objections, the parties sit
2 down and have a conversation, and it gets worked out. Your
3 pleading, Mr. Rosen, is not that kind of a pleading. Your
4 pleading basically says nobody should be paid hardly
5 anything, because things didn’t go the way that we thought
6 they would go.
7 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, I don’t agree with that
8 characterization. I thought I was pretty specific. There
9 were certain people who I said, who I did not object to.
10 The people I had (indiscernible) kind of these hours don’t
11 make sense kind of thing. Not saying they, not, and then,
12 and --
13 THE COURT: But have you, so my point is have you
14 had, actually -- when there are objections to fee
15 applications, what usually happens is you reach out to the
16 other party and if you have a question, you ask the question
17 and then you come and present, I attempted to work this out
18 with Mr. or Ms. so and so, and we, we narrowed the dispute.
19 We don’t see eye to eye, etcetera. All I have is this very
20 broad ranging pleading, and if I plunge into it the way it
21 is now, we’re going to have a trial for days and days and
22 days that’s going to cost everybody a lot of money. That
23 makes no sense.
24 MR. ROSEN: We’re, Your Honor, to answer your
25 question, we did attempt to have conversations. Beforehand,

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1 we went over, I laid out my general (indiscernible) before.
2 I’m not going to go into settlement discussions and issues
3 we attempted. Part of it was dates were coming up, and
4 because, because of people’s schedules -- some people were
5 on trial and other things were going on -- I don’t think as
6 much time was spent discussing (indiscernible). But we
7 attempted. I reached out. And I think that Monday
8 afternoon came, and we just ran out of time, and I had to
9 file the objections.
10 I mean, I, they were not, they were not objections
11 I wanted to file, unless I absolutely had to. So, I can
12 kind of go, I made the -- I’m not blaming anybody in any
13 way, shape or form. I think that people have some issues.
14 I think there were some problems in terms of, because they
15 were so interrelated in between the various parties, that it
16 was hard to figure out.
17 THE COURT: Well, who, which applications don’t
18 you object to? It seems to me you have something to say
19 about everybody.
20 MR. ROSEN: No, actually, Your Honor, I had -- my
21 only -- well, I’ll give you, I’ll give you the best example,
22 was probably the, MYC’s. I, my problem with them, the,
23 MYC’s was not that they did the work, or didn’t do the work.
24 They did the work. The issue is that it rolled over into
25 Mr. Gazes’ application, ‘cause I felt, thought that they

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1 were doing a lot of things that should have been part of his
2 commissions. That was my point of objection there. I don’t
3 think there’s anything in my objection that says they did
4 something that they weren’t supposed to do. I think they
5 just did things, if anything more so. I wasn’t looking to
6 penalize them.
7 I was looking to say that I think Mr. Gazes, on
8 his, I’d make an accommodation. But I didn’t know -- a part
9 of my problem was, for example, because the contract manager
10 never put in a fee app, and he was part of this, I don’t
11 know who did what, who did everything. So, I kind of put it
12 out there so that the other side could kind of have a
13 conversation amongst themselves, because part of my problem
14 when I was having discussions with people, I started getting
15 some he said, she said stuff. And I finally said look --
16 THE COURT: This case is entirely he said, she
17 said.
18 MR. ROSEN: Right.
19 THE COURT: And it, and it will be he said, she
20 said until I close it.
21 MR. ROSEN: And so, at that point, I kind of said,
22 well, why don’t you all try and like work it out among
23 yourselves? Here’s, here’s what I’m looking for. Like, I
24 gave a number. And, and that’s where, and that’s when we
25 ran out of time. Counsel wants to say something. I’ll let

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1 him respond.
2 THE COURT: Okay. (indiscernible) Janey, how are
3 you?
4 MR. JANEY: Good afternoon, Your Honor. For the
5 trustee, Gottlieb & Janey, by Derrelle Janey. To answer
6 your direct question, Your Honor, we did have conversations
7 with counsel for the debtor. I’m not sure that I would
8 characterize those discussions as such that we ran out of
9 time. I would characterize those discussions more so as a
10 disagreement as to what was being sought. Our issue with
11 the objections, Your Honor, is that we cannot discern,
12 either through the discussions that we had with counsel, or
13 for the written objections, as we have reviewed them, that
14 there is a statutory basis of objection.
15 To state it in a different way, we come at this,
16 Your Honor, from reviewing these objections and from a
17 perspective under the code of section 330A1A, and the way in
18 which the objections were couched to us in the discussions,
19 without revealing the, the specific discussions themselves,
20 but noting the facts of the discussions, and certainly as
21 reflected in the written document, the statutory basis is
22 reasonable compensation and necessary compensation and the
23 benefit conferred by the trustee.
24 THE COURT: Right. But Mr. Janey, what we have
25 here -- and I go back to you Mr. Rosen... Paragraph two,

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1 “This is not a blunderbuss attack on all the professions.”
2 Yes, it is.
3 MR. ROSEN: We agree.
4 THE COURT: This is a blunderbuss attack on all
5 the professions. You go on in that paragraph to make the
6 first of several statements, allegations, that don’t go to
7 Mr. Janey’s point, to the reasonableness of the work
8 performed, but to your plans to assess charges, costs, what
9 have you, against the professionals, because of this, that
10 or the other thing that they did during the case.
11 Paragraph two, “The refusal to provide a renewal
12 lease to a tenant in the homeless housing program, this may
13 cost the debtors estate more than $55,000. Clearly, since
14 the granted of a final order in a fee application bars
15 subsequent actions from that practice, these applications
16 cannot be granted at this time.” We then go on, you want a,
17 “The trustee must be surcharged for $15,000 for a fine
18 assessed to the debtor for work without a permit. Just
19 today there was a boiler violation, APTEK, MYC and on and on
20 and on.
21 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, I think they were, they
22 were fairly specific though. That to me, is not a
23 blunderbuss. I raised --
24 THE COURT: What is, what is your, what is your
25 plan? What, if I were going to hold a fee hearing tomorrow,

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1 what would your plan be?
2 MR. ROSEN: My plan would be -- you’re right, Your
3 Honor. We’re going to get into fees on this. It’s going to
4 be an expensive, involved evidentiary hearing.
5 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen, what, what’s your
6 suggestion as to what you would have me do? You’re saying
7 don’t grant the final fee applications. Keep this case
8 open, which by the way, you want closed. Keep this case
9 open so that you can, item by item, bring in all of these
10 things that you’re going to say the trustee did wrong. I’m
11 not making any determination as to what the underlying facts
12 are, okay, other than the fact that we all know how
13 contentious this case has been.
14 And by the way, the contentiousness did not start
15 with the filing of this case. There is a history here that
16 cannot be ignored. So, therefore, we now face a situation
17 where I have substantial objections to many, many
18 professional fee agreements, and the question is what do you
19 think is going to happen. I have, I can count on one hand
20 the number of contested fee hearings I’ve had in nine years.
21 This would take days to resolve, with evidence and with
22 witnesses. Is that what we’re going to do, or are you
23 going to sit down with folks and have a real conversation --
24 MR. ROSEN: I’m perfectly --
25 THE COURT: -- about what you’re looking for? If

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1 you’re looking for certain fee reductions, as would be
2 standard in any kind of a major case, then go and have that
3 conversation. If you, at the behest of your client, are
4 going to pursue a blunderbuss scorched earth approach, just
5 let me hear that now, so that I don’t continue to waste
6 anybody’s time --
7 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor --
8 THE COURT: -- including mine.
9 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor --
10 THE COURT: My time was entirely wasted in the HPD
11 lawsuit. That was an entire waste of time. And as I told
12 you, that was rule 11 material. I’m not interested in
13 anymore rule 11 type proceedings in this court. You go out
14 of your way in the action filed against the urban justice
15 center to invoke 1927. I am not interested in there being
16 continued litigation, vengeful litigation in this case.
17 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, this is not -- let me
18 correct something here. All right? I do not conduct
19 vengeful litigation, and I’m not conducting litigation that
20 my client told me to conduct. I’m conducting matters that
21 came up that I think are legitimate concerns that are going
22 to potentially cause --
23 THE COURT: And you’re standing before me today
24 without having had a reasonable, factually based
25 conversations with the party, against (indiscernible) --

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1 MR. ROSEN: I don’t think anyone said that to you,
2 Your Honor. They said that we had differences. I don’t
3 think --
4 MR. PASQUALE: Well --
5 MR. ROSEN: -- anyone would say that I didn’t try
6 to have a conversation.
7 THE COURT: How long, how long did you, how long a
8 time did you spend talking to Mr. Gazes?
9 MR. ROSEN: Mr. Gazes won’t speak to me. I’ve
10 been speaking to counsel.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Gazes, is that true?
12 MR. GAZES: I did ask him to speak with my
13 counsel, Your Honor, when I realized that this was becoming
14 a contentious matter. In fact, when I moved to Florida, I
15 ceased billing as an attorney, because I’m not practicing in
16 New York anymore, and I was doing everything on my own,
17 notwithstanding, to get the case closed. When I realized
18 that this was becoming an issue where a record was trying to
19 be built in some regard, I retained Mr. Janey, and I asked
20 him to protect me.
21 THE COURT: All right, so you, but just to be
22 clear --
23 MR. GAZES: There’s been no conversation with me.
24 THE COURT: But just to be clear, just to be
25 clear, to the extent that Mr. Rosen, the debtor is making

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1 allegations --
2 MR. JANEY: Yes.
3 THE COURT: -- that are, that have numbers attached
4 to them --
5 MR. ROSEN: Yes.
6 THE COURT: -- you’re going to have to, through
7 Mr. Janey, or with Mr. Janey, there’s going to have to be
8 some conversation.
9 MR. JANEY: Well, and just to, to be clear, Your
10 Honor -- I think Mr. Rosen is saying this, but to make it
11 explicit -- we have had those conversations. And again, I
12 root it in the basis of the statute. From our perspective,
13 in order for those conversations to be constructive, our
14 expectation of counsel is that the objections are going to
15 be rooted in the reasonableness of the compensation and
16 balanced with the substantial consideration and benefit
17 conferred on the debtor.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Janey, that’s not, you’re playing
19 on a different field than Mr. Rosen. Okay?
20 MR. JANEY: I understand. And the reason why I
21 root it in that way, Your Honor, is because it, it is, it is
22 inappropriate, for lack of a better word, for a debtor to
23 simply say take a red mark to the package.
24 THE COURT: But that’s not, but, but, but all the
25 time, all the time fee applications are opposed, basically

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1 on the grounds of you charged too much.
2 MR. JANEY: Sure.
3 THE COURT: Okay? This is something different.
4 This is -- other than with respect to a couple of granular
5 items, this isn’t you charged too much. This is you did
6 stuff wrong --
7 MR. JANEY: Right.
8 THE COURT: -- that you, that, that, that you
9 should be, and therefore your fees should be reduced,
10 because you did stuff wrong.
11 MR. JANEY: Well, as an example, and I know, and
12 I, and I’m trying to take, and I want to take, and I intend
13 to take very seriously, Your Honor, is instruction on the
14 docket. We did not submit a reply. And therefore, we did
15 not put forth our position on some of --
16 THE COURT: Right. Well, that’s why I’m --
17 MR. JANEY: Right.
18 THE COURT: -- I’m completely in the dark.
19 MR. JANEY: But, but as an example, just as one
20 example, Your Honor, one, just as a global categorical
21 comment, the objections are riddled with innuendo,
22 unfounded, speculative statements, unsupported allegations.
23 So, we didn’t submit a reply, but if we were to submit a
24 reply, taking into a consideration, Your Honor, one of the
25 allegations in connection with the APTEK restoration, which

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1 the, the debtor suggests is the amount of roughly 225,000,
2 holding aside our issue of the dispute, as to whether the
3 number is, is correct. To be clear, if we look at the clerk
4 of the court’s claims registry, that’s maintained by the
5 clerk, APTEK has filed a timely, administrative claim for
6 unpaid invoices, to which the debtor has not objected, nor
7 does the debtor dispute the validity of the APTEK claim in
8 the objection. So, I’m not sure what the objection is
9 really about here. So, when we come to the, to the extent
10 that the objections are about something other than the, the
11 professionals are being paid too much, and it veers into
12 this category, which are these salacious allegations --
13 THE COURT: They’re all in that category. That’s
14 the problem. Paragraph five, “The debtor received a notice
15 of a boiler violation at the property that was issued while
16 the trustee was in place. A stipulation was entered into
17 and not complied with. There will be an additional fine
18 when this is resolved that should be surcharged against the
19 trustee. Every single one of those sentences, and sentence
20 fragments, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
21 MR. JANEY: Right. So, from our perspective --
22 THE COURT: So --
23 MR. JANEY: -- as an example, again, just drawing
24 on the APTEK example, to the extent that APTEK has filed a
25 claim that the debtor has not objected to. It’s being

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1 maintained by the clerk, clerk of the court. It’s beyond
2 me, Your Honor -- and hopefully we won’t have to have a
3 trial in order to figure this out -- why in the world
4 there’s a suggestion that the operating trustee should be
5 held accountable for this. I mean, it’s, it’s in the vein
6 that those types of allegations make no sense. And, and
7 they appear --
8 THE COURT: I hear you. But, so, either you’re
9 going to go, you know, sit down and go through this, and at
10 least narrow the issues, or you’re not. And if, if you
11 can’t, I mean, I can’t, I can’t rule based on this. This,
12 none of this is evidence.
13 MR. ROSEN: I understood, I understand that --
14 listen.
15 THE COURT: Don’t say listen to me, Mr. Rosen.
16 MR. ROSEN: Okay. I’m sorry. I apologize, Your
17 Honor. I’m more frustrated over here because, because, Your
18 Honor, the APTEK, that’s probably the biggest claim out
19 there. The APTEK claim, the $220,000, was in the last
20 (indiscernible) of financing. Mr. Gazes got that money. He
21 contracted with that, with that person. They did the work,
22 and he didn’t pay them. All right? So, it was money that
23 was --
24 MR. JANEY: And I’m sorry. I’ve got to, I’ve got
25 to render an objection.

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1 MR. ROSEN: Okay. No, please. I didn’t interrupt
2 you, Counsel.
3 THE COURT: Hold on.
4 MR. ROSEN: I didn’t interrupt you, all right?
5 So, to say that we should have objected to --
6 THE COURT: But are you saying that, that Mr.
7 Gazes absconded with the money?
8 MR. ROSEN: I’m not saying he absconded with the
9 money.
10 MR. JANEY: Right. That’s --
11 MR. ROSEN: I’m saying he so mismanaged the
12 property --
13 MR. JANEY: That’s the problem with that
14 statement.
15 MR. ROSEN: -- he took the money under an
16 earmarked doctrine (indiscernible) under the loan.
17 THE COURT: That’s you, that’s an important
18 distinction. That’s your position.
19 MR. ROSEN: I understand.
20 THE COURT: It’s an earmark doctrine. Is this
21 what you think this is going to look like, that you’re going
22 to, we’re going to have a trial and you’re going to, and
23 this is what this is going to look like? You’re going to
24 attempt to demonstrate that there was money that was
25 earmarked for APTEK and that Mr. Gazes didn’t pay them -- I

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1 mean, I guess it seems clear that they were not payed -- and
2 that therefore, what?
3 MR. ROSEN: Therefore what, some of the issues,
4 when you look at the totality of what he did in mismanaging
5 the property, there was no money there to meet other
6 expenses. So, he could use that money that was there for
7 that.
8 THE COURT: So, why didn’t your objection simply
9 say, “Mr. Gazes completely mismanaged the property.
10 Therefore, he is not entitled to a dollar (indiscernible)?”
11 MR. ROSEN: Because I think I’m, I think I’m, I
12 think I need to be more specific than that. I’m being
13 attacked for not being specific enough.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen --
15 MR. ROSEN: I didn’t put everything in, Your
16 Honor, because it would have been hundreds of e-mail.
17 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen, that’s two. Okay? That’s
18 two. I am not attacking you. Okay?
19 MR. ROSEN: No, counsel is. He’s saying that I
20 was (indiscernible). I’m not accusing you of it. I’m
21 being, I’m being accused of not having put enough detail in.
22 For me to have filed what they wanted, you would have gotten
23 a pleading like this with, with literally hundreds of emails
24 attached --
25 THE COURT: Okay. Then, you’re either going to --

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1 MR. ROSEN: -- which is where we (indiscernible).
2 THE COURT: You’re either going to sit down and
3 try to work this out or narrow the issues, or we’re going to
4 have to go to trial.
5 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, I always wanted to sit
6 down.
7 MR. JANEY: Your Honor --
8 MR. ROSEN: That’s why I filed the pleading, just
9 so we’re clear, at the last minute, with enough in there to
10 put everyone on notice of where I was coming from, but not
11 going to (indiscernible).
12 THE COURT: Where you are coming from is that Mr.
13 Gazes should be writing the debtor a check. That’s where
14 you’re coming from.
15 MR. JANEY: And to be clear Your Honor, if I, if I
16 --
17 MR. ROSEN: No. No, that’s where I’m coming from.
18 That was never my -- (indiscernible).
19 THE COURT: Can I have Mr. Janey now, please?
20 MR. JANEY: If I can be very clear, the issue is
21 not that the document lacks detail. It’s that the document,
22 by its nature, is salacious in the accusations. To be
23 clear, Your Honor, counsel has reached out in dispute of the
24 fee applications, and contacted the trustee’s professionals,
25 and said things like what is being said on the record in

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1 court today, which suggests that Mr. Gazes pocketed
2 $200,000, which is not in fact the case. And it leaves
3 open, just as Your Honor’s reaction is, well what is it that
4 you’re really saying? You’re saying that he earmarked it
5 and used it for another purpose for the benefit of the
6 tenants, or are you saying that he stole the money? That’s
7 part of the problem with the objections document. It’s
8 deficient.
9 It focuses on this notion of totally ignoring the
10 substantial benefit, conferred on the debtor, and looks at
11 these isolated incidents of, oh, there was a boiler
12 violation, but it doesn’t balance with the fact that since
13 the debtor actually acquired the property, there are over
14 1,100 violations that the debtor realized. That’s like two
15 and a half violations per day. So, there’s no balance. And
16 that’s why we’re saying that if we were to submit a reply
17 that the objection document on its face is simply deficient,
18 I’m not sure that I understand, even on the basis of process
19 and procedure, how it advances to an evidentiary hearing,
20 because the document by its nature doesn’t even get that
21 far. There is not a question that we aren’t prepared to sit
22 down and have conversations. Mr. Rosen and I have had
23 conversations. And I believe that some of those
24 conversations have actually been very productive. But in
25 terms of this document and how we move it ahead, having

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1 another conversation is great. But it has to be reasonable
2 and it has to take into account the benefit that the trustee
3 has conferred on this debtor. And this debtor has a lot of
4 history. And this debtor is in a better position today,
5 after the operating trustee has exited from the situation.
6 THE COURT: I’ll ask you again, Mr. Rosen, are
7 there any fee applications today that you’re not objecting
8 to?
9 MR. ROSEN: Yes, Your Honor. I was not objecting
10 to MYC’s, ‘cause I said, I had said in the papers, and I
11 make clearly, that my concerns with that is the may be some
12 monies that Mr. Gazes is not entitled to that. But as far
13 as I’m concerned, and I know my client has just come in, we
14 have no dispute with -- I went through the bill carefully,
15 and I could nit-pick a little bit, but I have no intentions
16 of doing that. In terms of the other fee applications, the
17 fee applications with special counsel, that one is the
18 perfect he said, she said. I’ll leave that one alone for
19 now because I’ve got two different --
20 THE COURT: What do you mean by that?
21 MR. ROSEN: The special counsel who was handling,
22 who was handling the --
23 THE COURT: The leases?
24 MR. ROSEN: The leases. All right? Because on
25 that one I got directly contradictory stories. They, they

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1 had offered to resolve it to be quite honest. And I didn’t
2 want to do it in a vacuum. So, I waited on that one.
3 THE COURT: Well, this, as I said --
4 MR. ROSEN: My objection as to --
5 THE COURT: This is not, this is, this is a
6 conference, not a hearing.
7 MR. ROSEN: Right.
8 THE COURT: All right? So --
9 MR. ROSEN: My objections to CBIZ, I just wanted
10 to finish answering your question.
11 THE COURT: Yeah.
12 MR. ROSEN: CBIZ, my objections were just,
13 (indiscernible) more and more traditional sense, was 28
14 hours for doing a fee application.
15 THE COURT: Yeah. That, that’s a, that’s a great
16 example of something that is appropriately raised.
17 MR. ROSEN: I raised that one. I raised a couple
18 other little ones, as to timing and stuff in there. Other
19 than that, I don’t have objections there. They, they did,
20 they did the other work. I broke down the average from the
21 monthly operating reports.
22 THE COURT: Well, then what I would suggest is
23 that we have fee applications -- I’m not even going to talk
24 about your fee application or Mr. Janey’s application -- but
25 we have the application of the Gazes firm and as Mr. Gazes’s

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1 trustee, we have the Nadel firm, we have MYC, and we have
2 CBIZ. Okay? What I’m directing you to do is to have, to
3 consult with each of those parties and attempt to come to an
4 agreement, as to fees, as to a level of fees to which you
5 will not object, withdraw your objection, etcetera. With
6 respect to the, each and every one of the allegations that
7 you have made, with respect to Mr. Gazes, is you need to sit
8 down with Mr. Janey and Mr. Gazes and try to come to a
9 meeting of the minds. If it is your intention, essentially,
10 to allege that Mr. Gazes is guilty of malpractice, and
11 mismanagement in his role as the operating trustee, then
12 we’re going to have to have a trial on that, with evidence,
13 and it’s going to be long, and it’s going to be costly,
14 because those are very serious allegations.
15 Some of the things that you’ve said are
16 susceptible of figuring out what you’re talking about. Is
17 there a problem with a boiler? When did it arise? What
18 stipulation? How is it violated? I have no idea. I’m not
19 going to pre-judge any of the issues. The only thing that I
20 am pre-judging is the fact that in a normal case, in which
21 the fees are many times greater than they are here, the
22 parties sit down and attempt to work it out or narrow the
23 issues. And that’s what I expect here. And I will ask,
24 when you come back, for you to tell me what efforts were
25 made.

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1 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, I will be happy to. And
2 I’m, and I’m, and I’m quite happy to do that. It’s all I
3 ever wanted to do.
4 THE COURT: Great. Mr. Janey?
5 MR. JANEY: Of course, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: All right. Anybody else who’s here
7 representing any of the retained professionals, please reach
8 out to Mr. Rosen, attempt to work out your differences. If
9 you arrive at, at an agreement, you can submit an order on
10 presentment, and we can check those off the list. If you
11 can’t, they’ll go back on the calendar for hearing on
12 another day. All right? We’ll talk about timeframes
13 before, before we conclude.
15 THE COURT: So, that’s what we’re going to do on
16 the fees. Okay. The next thing is the, the debtor’s motion
17 seeking to find Urban Justice and the other named
18 respondents in contempt. Mr. Rosen, have you had a chance
19 to read the pleading that was filed on behalf of the
20 respondents by UJC and Stroock?
21 MR. ROSEN: Yes, Your Honor. And like Mr. Janey,
22 I, I took your (indiscernible) to heart and did not file a,
23 a pleading in response to it. I have just one fundamental
24 difference, off the top, just factually. I do not, I
25 believe that that complaint does deal -- they seem to try to

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1 parse it, to say that it was really just dealing with the
2 post-petition period, which would have really only been
3 about a month, a month and a half in that pleading, and if
4 they weren’t asking for damages (indiscernible).
5 THE COURT: You’re, are you conflating post-
6 petition and post-effective date? Post-petition. Post-
7 petition. Finding of the case.
8 MR. ROSEN: Right.
9 THE COURT: Post-petition. Not post-effective
10 date. That’s years. Not months.
11 MR. ROSEN: Right. But even then, most of the
12 allegations in there, and most of what they were seeking the
13 damages for were actually the pre-petition periods, if you
14 read their complaint carefully.
15 THE COURT: To be clear --
16 MR. ROSEN: Mm hmm.
17 THE COURT: -- okay, what, what the responsive
18 pleading says is that while the complaint contains
19 allegations relating to the pre-petition period, the damages
20 sought relate solely to the post-petition period.
21 MR. ROSEN: I know that’s what it says. I just
22 don’t think that’s what the complaint says, Your Honor. I
23 mean, I mean I didn’t go through the complaint again in
24 detail (indiscernible), but I read it several times before I
25 (indiscernible).

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1 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen -- Mr. Pasquale, I’m sorry.
2 Do I have it wrong?
3 MR. PASQUALE: You do not have it wrong, Your
4 Honor.
5 THE COURT: So, so, you can -- and I’ve seen this
6 happen a lot, where for example, pre-petition is discharged,
7 pre-petition claims are discharged, except to the extent
8 that they are carved out. When it’s a general matter in
9 plan, right, there’s pre-petition discharge. You, that’s,
10 the discharged injunction means that you can’t sue on
11 account of pre-petition. Right? But if there’s a course of
12 conduct and it started pre-petition, there’s no bar on
13 setting forth those, that conduct in allegations, as long as
14 your claim is only relating to damages that may have
15 occurred in the post-petition period. So, to the extent
16 that the, so there will be no, there can be no recovery for
17 any discharge pre-petition damages. So, there’s that.
18 MR. PASQUALE: Except here, Your Honor, there was
19 no discharge. So, it’s a matter of timing, but it’s not a
20 matter of ultimate recovery.
21 THE COURT: Right.
22 MR. PASQUALE: Right.
23 MR. ROSEN: Right. So, so the pleading does
24 contain the allegations in it --
25 THE COURT: But if there’s not --

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1 MR. ROSEN: -- seeking damages for pre-petition --
2 THE COURT: No, it does not. It does not.
3 MR. ROSEN: Okay.
4 THE COURT: Well --
5 MR. ROSEN: If that’s what the complaint, if, if
6 we -- that may go a long way towards resolving this, your
7 Honor, if that’s crystal clear that they’re not seeking any
8 damages for that period of time, because that’s, to be quite
9 honest, that was not how I read that complaint. Maybe I was
10 wrong, and if I was wrong, I’ll be happy that I was wrong.
11 But that’s not the way I read that complaint. And from what
12 was just said, it sounds like that that’s not what, what --
13 MR. PASQUALE: Not today, Your Honor. Not today.
14 Again, we’re talking about a timing issue.
15 THE COURT: Right.
16 MR. PASQUALE: So, when there is a final decree --
17 THE COURT: When there’s a final decree --
18 MR. PASQUALE: It may be that those claims are
19 asserted, seeking damages for a pre-petition period. But
20 that is not the case today.
21 THE COURT: Right. But the current complaint on
22 this record, Mr. Pasquale is confirming, the current
23 complaint does not seek damages relating to, arising from
24 pre-petition conduct.
25 MR. ROSEN: So, so, if I’m clear then, then the

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1 damages, since the debtor was out of possession, as of
2 February, 2017, it would cover the period from, between the
3 filing date and then, and then from the effective date going
4 forward?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 MR. ROSEN: So, it’s, so, it’s literally, it’s,
7 since they filed that about -- so, it’s, the complaints over
8 about two months worth of time, a little bit less?
9 THE COURT: No. It’s post-petition.
10 MR. ROSEN: Right, Your Honor. But the post --
11 THE COURT: (indiscernible) --
12 MR. ROSEN: So, so, so, part of the, one of the
13 issues in that complaint is though, are that the debtor was,
14 was out of possession and not allowed to go near the
15 building, from the day you appointed the operating trustee.
16 So, the allegations that are in there that deal with the
17 post-petition period, all right, until (indiscernible).
18 THE COURT: Okay. This is, what you’re saying
19 sounds like a defense. If your defense is going to be that
20 the debtor was out of possession, okay, we’ll, we’ll get to
21 that when we get to that. But that has nothing to do with
22 whether or not the filing of the complaint violates the
23 terms of the plan. You’re trying to get me to say words
24 that limit the damages. I’m not going to say those words.
25 You, the complaint only deals with damages related to post-

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1 petition conduct. What you’re saying is oh, but wait, there
2 was an operating trustee, and therefore, the debtor’s not
3 liable. That’s a defense. That’s not a hold them in
4 contempt for filing the complaint that was in violation of
5 the plan. Do you understand? I mean --
6 MR. ROSEN: I understand completely, Your Honor.
7 I just, I, you know, I looked at the, I looked at the
8 totality of what was in the complaint. I looked at the way
9 it was framed. If that’s what they’re doing now
10 (indiscernible), I mean, I’ll have to re-read the complaint
11 on that. Again, it’s a conference. I’ll take another look
12 at it. But you know, they gave out a press release that
13 was, obviously that was very different from what’s being
14 said now, and I understand all of that. But I’ll have to
15 take another look at the complaint. I hear what they’re
16 saying now.
17 THE COURT: I go by what’s in the pleading, not by
18 what’s in a press release. I haven’t seen the press
19 release.
20 MR. PASQUALE: Your Honor, if there’s any
21 ambiguity, I will just say it again for the record. To the
22 extent there were any words in that complaint that Mr. Rosen
23 can interpret as seeking damages for a pre-petition amount,
24 that is not what is being solved. It is for post-petition
25 acts. We will, I’m going to say it again. At the

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1 appropriate time, that complaint may very well be amended to
2 assert claims for the pre-petition amount. But that is not
3 the intention. That is not what the complaint says as of
4 this day today.
5 THE COURT: This is a perfect example of, we’re
6 wasting everyone’s time and money. You, you’re complaining
7 about, that there’s, that, that --
8 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, that, that complaint, that
9 -- I’ll take him at his word on the explanation for it,
10 okay? But that complaint gave the -- the debtor didn’t get
11 a lot out of this plan in terms of -- one of the things that
12 we bargained for was to be able to have the time to do our
13 re-finance. That complaint blew up our refinance. All
14 right? It was as simple as --
15 THE COURT: That complaint was permitted by the
16 plan. That complaint was permitted by the plan.
17 MR. ROSEN: Okay, Your Honor. As, again, as I
18 stand here, I’ll take another look at the --
19 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen, if you want to pursue this,
20 okay, you need to take a look before you file a pleading.
21 Okay? So...
22 MR. ROSEN: I’ll take another look at it, Your
23 Honor. I’ll take another hard look at it.
24 THE COURT: The two other litigations, they’re
25 both related to post, post-petition. So, how can they form

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1 the basis of contempt? The rent reduction proceeding.
2 MR. ROSEN: The rent reduction, I believe, goes
3 back before the filing date. Am I right or am I wrong?
4 THE COURT: The rent reduction proceeding --
5 MR. PASQUALE: No, it does not.
6 THE COURT: -- has to do with actions that were
7 taken by the trustee. By definition, that’s post-petition.
8 MR. ROSEN: I’ll take a look at it, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: Part of the problem is that what I
10 have here is this far-ranging stream of consciousness. Rule
11 105, (indiscernible), jurisdiction. These statements that
12 are, that are frankly outrageous. UJC have made the
13 building virtually impossible to refinance. The damages
14 will be substantial. This case needs to be closed and these
15 disputes need to go back to the state court system. This
16 case started, was started by your client.
17 A trustee was put in place. We all know the rest
18 of the history. Certain repairs were made. Everybody’s
19 still unhappy. I don’t have a magic wand. All I can do is
20 try to resolve these disputes and close the case. I’ve long
21 given up hope. I’ve long given up hope that there’s going
22 to be a positive atmosphere at this building. It’s beyond
23 my (indiscernible). It’s beyond my jurisdiction. I can
24 only express my disappointment on behalf of everybody,
25 (indiscernible) the debtor and certainly the tenants. But

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1 there is still, there’s still an opportunity to be
2 constructive and to narrow these disputes. And it starts by
3 reading the documents and having discussions with people
4 around the issues, instead of filing stream of
5 consciousness, blunderbuss pleadings. You’re welcome to
6 stay and begin your conversations now. It’s a quarter to
7 four. I have a conference call at four o’clock.
8 MR. ROSEN: Thank you, Your Honor. I’m willing to
9 do that, if people are.
10 THE COURT: Documents are worth reading carefully.
11 Cases are worth reading carefully. Discharge injunctions
12 and limitations of releases are worth reading carefully.
13 It’s what, what was actually agreed to, not what somebody
14 wishes had been agreed to or not agreed to. Unless these
15 issues are resolved, we’re going to run up another, I don’t
16 know how much of fees. I really would, I really, really
17 hope that you can find a way to avoid that.
18 Because that’s not for the benefit of anybody.
19 So, I think I’ve succeeded in making you all equally
20 unhappy. So, perhaps I’ve done my job for the moment. I do
21 have a four o’clock conference call. I don’t know that you
22 want to stay. To the extent that you think that there are
23 some issues that you can resolve by talking to each other
24 now, as I said, you can have my conference room. You’re
25 welcome, you’re welcome to stay.

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1 MR. ROSEN: Thank you, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Otherwise, we should set a date to
3 come back, both on the motion and on, on the fee
4 applications. You want to talk first and set a date second,
5 or do you want, do you want to pick a date? Is there anyone
6 else who’d like to be heard about anything? Mr. Gazes?
7 MR. GAZES: Yes. I know that APTEK is here,
8 represented by Sman Bhutta. That’s right. And he still has
9 not been paid. And so, my understanding is that there’s
10 been no objection to his proof of claim. He has contacted
11 us. He needs to pay. I’m not sure if he wrote a letter to
12 Your Honor to explain the circumstances that he’s under.
13 The debtor is just refusing to pay him. So, he wanted to --
14 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen?
15 MR. ROSEN: I’ll have a conversation with my
16 client, Your Honor. Again, I don’t want to rehash things.
17 But my, you’ll recall when we negotiated this deal, that
18 part of it for the financing was that was to be the money
19 for all the renovations. All right?
20 THE COURT: Okay. I’m not going to take your
21 testimony. And I’m not going to rely on my, on my
22 recollection. You have an administrative claim that has not
23 been objected to, and somebody who’s saying they’re entitled
24 to be paid. So, as your, the plan has gone effective, this
25 is on your plate now. If your position is going to be that

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1 there were earmarked funds that were diverted, if you will,
2 or spent elsewhere, then you’re going to have to take that
3 position.
4 MR. ROSEN: Well, when I was going to finish up
5 with my --
6 THE COURT: But, but this is, earmarking, that’s
7 one of those terms that you just can’t throw around --
8 MR. ROSEN: I got it, your Honor. I got it. What
9 I was going to, what --
10 THE COURT: -- and, and think that that’s an
11 argument.
12 MR. ROSEN: What I was going to, what I was, I was
13 trying to put together a global resolution of all of these
14 issues and (indiscernible) everything out there, ‘cause
15 that, and that’s if not the biggest, one of the biggest
16 items on the table, ‘cause that brings the administrative
17 fees over $840,000 or $860,000 here. So, my clients here.
18 I’ll have a, we’ll have a conversation.
19 MR. JANEY: To your question, Your Honor --
20 THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Janey.
21 MR. JANEY: -- what I propose is that we set a
22 date. It’ll provide a guidepost --
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. JANEY: -- to move along the discussions.
25 THE COURT: Okay. Let’s do that. Well, July is

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1 almost at an end. Would you be looking for an August date
2 or a September date? What would you -- August becomes
3 difficult because people have --
4 MR. ROSEN: I think --
5 THE COURT: -- family obligations.
6 MR. JANEY: September, Your Honor, right, right
7 after Labor Day, if that comports with Your honor’s
8 schedule.
9 THE COURT: Yeah. The first week after Labor Day
10 was especially the -- Mr. Rosen, your client would like to
11 speak to you.
12 MR. ROSEN: Your Honor, (indiscernible) first two
13 weeks in September, (indiscernible) Labor Day. Could we get
14 a little bit later in September?
15 THE COURT: Later in September would mean
16 September 26th.
17 MR. ROSEN: 26th?
18 THE COURT: Would mean September 26th. I have
19 other obligations that unfortunately don’t coincide with Mr.
20 Miller’s schedule.
21 MR. JANEY: We have no objection, Your Honor. The
22 only comment I’d make, it seems a little bit long in tooth.
23 But we have no objection to the date.
24 THE COURT: It is. It’s very long.
25 MR. PASQUALE: Your Honor, I have a bit of an

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1 objection. I mean, we have a sanctions motion against Urban
2 Justice Center --
3 THE COURT: Yeah.
4 MR. PASQUALE: -- that’s going to sit out there
5 all this time.
6 THE COURT: Right.
7 MR. PASQUALE: That does concern me.
8 THE COURT: Right.
9 MR. PASQUALE: If, if Mr. --
10 THE COURT: Okay. So, let, let’s (indiscernible).
11 Let’s --
12 MR. PASQUALE: Well, may I? If Mr. Rosen and his
13 client are willing to, to dismiss that motion, even withdraw
14 the motion, (indiscernible) without prejudice, I have no
15 issue with the date. But I really do have a problem in that
16 regard.
17 THE COURT: Yep.
18 MR. PASQUALE: Thank you.
19 THE COURT: That’s a fair point. Okay. So, so,
20 Mr. Rosen, let’s be a little more granular. Okay? With
21 respect to the motion against, against Urban Justice and the
22 tenants, I (indiscernible) to review it, reach out to Mr.
23 Pasquale with follow up questions if you have any, and if
24 you can come to a meeting of the minds, great. If not, we
25 can put that on the calendar for some time in August. And

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1 that just requires the two of you.
2 MR. ROSEN: Either that or the -- later, later in
3 August is okay. And I’m, I’m (indiscernible). I can do
4 that very quickly. That makes sense.
5 THE COURT: Great.
6 MR. ROSEN: (indiscernible) --
7 MR. PASQUALE: (indiscernible) --
8 THE COURT: If you don’t resolve it, Mr. -- you
9 can’t do the week of August 5th?
10 MR. ROSEN: I cannot do that week (indiscernible).
11 THE COURT: What week can’t you do?
12 MR. PASQUALE: After August 16th, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: After August 16th. So, then, you
14 could come back on August 15th. Okay?
15 MR. PASQUALE: Happily, do that.
16 THE COURT: Not you. Not you, Mr. (indiscernible).
17 MR. JANEY: I was going to ask why we you know,
18 can’t do it on the same date. I mean, I, I’m not sure Mr.,
19 Mr. --
20 THE COURT: Mr. Rosen just said he’s not going to
21 be around the week of August 5th.
22 MR. JANEY: Oh, Mr. Rosen or his client?
23 MR. ROSEN: No, I’m not going to be away the week
24 of August -- I’m going to be away the week of August 5th.
25 THE COURT: Yes, so he’s not available to work on

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1 a resolution --
2 MR. ROSEN: I’m here, (indiscernible) Friday.
3 MR. JANEY: I see.
4 THE COURT: -- with you the week of August 5th.
5 MR. JANEY: Okay.
6 THE COURT: So, August 15th, you’ll come back,
7 unless there’s a resolution with respect to the contempt
8 motion.
9 MR. JANEY: Thank you, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: All right?
11 MR. JANEY: What time is that?
12 THE COURT: August 15th -- but you’re going to be
13 around, right?
14 MR. ROSEN: August -- that whole week beforehand,
15 I’m around.
16 THE COURT: So, why is it that we can’t have
17 further status on that date, with respect to the fee
18 applications? Today is only -- I mean, you got --
19 MR. ROSEN: I can do it --
20 THE COURT: I mean, I know you have more than one
21 thing on your plate, Mr. Rosen, but couldn’t you try to make
22 some progress this week?
23 MR. ROSEN: They had originally asked for this
24 September date. I mean, I agree.
25 THE COURT: Okay. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

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1 MR. ROSEN: So, well, no, yes. You want to put it
2 all on for August 15th, that’s fine with me. I’d rather,
3 I’d (indiscernible) rather get it done sooner, rather than
4 later, Your Honor. We’re either going to come to an
5 agreement, or we’re not.
6 MAN 1: (indiscernible) with date. I just, in case
7 we don’t resolve it, are we going to be able to put in
8 replies to the, the (indiscernible)?
9 THE COURT: Right, we’re going to, August 15th,
10 for further status.
12 THE COURT: Not for -- and then we’ll decide at
13 that point what we’re going to do. Because if there is
14 definitively no resolution, then we need to pick a date for
15 an evidentiary hearing, and then we’re into a whole
16 different --
17 MR. JANEY: Okay.
18 THE COURT: -- ball game. All right?
19 MAN. 1: (indiscernible) dates.
20 MR. JANEY: Okay. August 15th.
21 MR. ROSEN: Let’s do the time.
22 THE COURT: Yeah.
23 MR. GAZES: May I appear by telephone?
24 (indiscernible) --
25 THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Gazes, you can appear by, by

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1 telephone.
2 MR. GAZES: Thank you, Your Honor. And Mr.
3 Bhutta’s application, is that something that will be
4 (indiscernible) --
5 THE COURT: So, that, that --
6 MR. ROSEN: We’re going, we’re going to hopefully
7 talk.
8 THE COURT: They’re going to talk, they’re going
9 to talk about it.
10 MR. JANEY: Yeah.
11 THE COURT: So, I mean, that’s really not on my
12 radar for today. So, unfortunately, I mean we have an
13 unpaid administrative claim and you have to figure out what
14 you’re going to do.
15 MR. ROSEN: I understand.
16 THE COURT: So, so, sir, you could, you’re welcome
17 to come back on the 15th if you don’t have payment or a
18 resolution by then.
19 MR. BHUTTA: (indiscernible).
20 THE COURT: All right?
21 MR. BHUTTA: I appreciate it.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So, just to be clear,
23 everyone’s coming back on the 15th, unless you have
24 resolutions of the particular issues, which you can let me
25 know either by the submission of a stipulation or an order

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1 on presentment, or you can even give chambers a call, just
2 let us know that there’s good news. All right?
4 THE COURT: What time on the 15th? Do we have
5 something at eleven o’clock? Yeah eleven o’clock on the
6 15th?
7 MR. JANEY: Yes, Your Honor.
8 MR. ROSEN: Sounds good.
9 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Thank you very much
10 for coming in. Don’t forget to dismiss the --
11 MR. JANEY: Yes.
12 THE COURT: -- that other adversary --
13 MR. JANEY: Yes.
14 THE COURT: -- the 17- adversary.
15 MR. JANEY: We will do that, Your Honor. Thank
16 you.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. ROSEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. So, Mr. Rosen,
20 I’ve given you a lot of assignments.
21 MR. ROSEN: Excuse me?
22 THE COURT: I’ve given you a lot of assignments.
23 MR. ROSEN: (indiscernible) --
24 THE COURT: You have a lot of homework. All
25 right?

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1 MR. ROSEN: Let’s say they’re assignments.
2 Because I never did homework when I was a kid.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. ROSEN: I was one of those.
5 THE COURT: We’ll say they’re, we’ll say they’re
6 assignments. All right. Thank you.
7 MR. GAZES: Thank you, Your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Thank you.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
3 I, Sonya Ledanski Hyde, certified that the foregoing
4 transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.
5
Sonya Digitally signed by Sonya
Landanski Hyde
6
Landanski DN: cn=Sonya Landanski Hyde, o,
ou, email=digital1@veritext.com,
c=US
7 Hyde Date: 2019.08.07 14:26:51 -04'00'
8 Sonya Ledanski Hyde
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Veritext Legal Solutions
21 330 Old Country Road
22 Suite 300
23 Mineola, NY 11501
24
25 Date: August 5, 2019

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212-267-6868 www.veritext.com 516-608-2400

919 Transcript of Hearing - July 29, 2019

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919 Transcript of Hearing - July 29, 2019

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Page 1

1 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

3 Case No. 16-13569-scc

4 Adv. Case No. 18-01632-scc

6 In the Matter of:

8 919 PROSPECT AVENUE LLC,

12 919 PROSPECT AVE LLC,

15 DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT,

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1 United States Bankruptcy Court

2 One Bowling Green

3 New York, NY 10004

5 July 29, 2019

22 HON SHELLEY C. CHAPMAN

23 U.S. BANKRUPTCY JUDGE

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1 HEARING re Doc #190 Motion for Damages for Creditor

2 Misconduct against the Urban Justice Center filed by Avrum

3 J. Rosen on behalf of 919 Prospect Ave LLC

5 Doc #193 Application for Final Professional Compensation for

6 Lorraine Nadel, Trustee's Attorney

8 Doc #192 Application for Final Professional Compensation for

9 Avrum J. Rosen Debtor's Attorney

11 Doc #195 Application for Final Professional Compensation of

12 Gazes LLC and for Trustees Commissions for Ian J. Gazes,

15 Doc #198 Application for Final Professional Compensation of

17 Inc., Financial Advisors to the Chapter 11 Trustee for

18 Derrelle M. Janey, Accountant

20 Doc #196 Application for Final Professional Compensation of

21 Gottlieb & Janey LLP as Substitute General Counsel to the

22 Trustee for Derrelle M. Janey, Trustee's Attorney

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1 Doc #197 Application for Final Professional Compensation of

2 MYC & Associates, Inc. as Property Manager to the Chapter 11

3 Trustee for Derrelle M. Janey, Other Professional

25 Transcribed by: Sonya Ledanski Hyde

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6 GOTTLIEB & JANEY

7 Attorney for the U.S. Trustee

9 111 Broadway, Suite 701

10 New York, NY 10006

12 BY: DERRELLE M. JANEY

14 MYC & ASSOCIATES

15 Attorney for Ian J. Gazes

17 BY: VICTOR MONEYPENNY

19 APTEK RESTORATION INC.

21 BY: SMAN BHUTTA

25 BY: IAN GAZER

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1 ROSEN & KANTROW, PLLC

2 Attorneys for the Debtor

6 BY: AVRUM J. ROSEN

8 STROOCK & STROOCK & LAVAN LLP

9 Attorney for Tenants

10 180 Maiden Lane

11 New York, NY 10038-4982

13 BY: JASON M. PIERCE

16 URBAN JUSTICE CENTER

17 Attorney for Urban Justice Center and

18 Co-Counsel to the Tenants

20 BY: SHEREIF GABER

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2 THE COURT: Please have a seat.