You are on page 1of 21

Procès en Impeachment

Sénat des Etats-Unis

Débats du 31 janvier 2020


Résolution n° 488 organisant la fin du procès

Compte-rendu intégral

www.droitamericain.fr
Congressional Record
E PL
UR M
IB NU
U

U
S

116 th CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION


United States
of America PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE

Vol. 166 WASHINGTON, FRIDAY, JANUARY 31, 2020 No. 21

House of Representatives
The House was not in session today. Its next meeting will be held on Monday, February 3, 2020, at 1:30 p.m.

Senate
FRIDAY, JANUARY 31, 2020

The Senate met at 1:15 p.m. and was THE JOURNAL Mr. Chief Justice, Senators, fellow
called to order by the Chief Justice of The CHIEF JUSTICE. If there is no House managers, and counsel for the
the United States. objection, the Journal of proceedings of President, I know I speak for my fellow
f the trial is approved to date. managers, as well as counsel for the
The Deputy Sergeant at Arms will President, in thanking you for your
TRIAL OF DONALD J. TRUMP, make the proclamation. careful attention to the arguments
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED The Deputy Sergeant at Arms, Jen- that we have made over the course of
STATES nifer Hemingway, made the proclama- many long days.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senate tion as follows: Today, we were greeted to yet an-
will convene as a Court of Impeach- Hear ye! Hear ye! Hear ye! All persons are other development in the case when
ment. commanded to keep silent, on pain of impris- the New York Times reported with a
The Chaplain will offer a prayer. onment, while the Senate of the United headline that says:
PRAYER States is sitting for the trial of the articles Trump Told Bolton to Help His Ukraine
The Chaplain, Dr. Barry C. Black, of- of impeachment exhibited by the House of Pressure Campaign, Book Says
Representatives against Donald John Trump, The President asked his national security
fered the following prayer:
President of the United States. adviser last spring in front of other senior
Let us pray.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority advisers to pave the way for a meeting be-
Eternal Lord God, you have summa-
leader is recognized. tween Rudolph Giuliani and Ukraine’s new
rized ethical behavior in a single sen- leader.
tence: Do for others what you would ORDER OF PROCEDURE
According to the New York Times:
like them to do for you. Remind our Mr. MCCONNELL. For the informa-
More than two months before he asked
Senators that they alone are account- tion of all colleagues, we will take a Ukraine’s president to investigate his polit-
able to You for their conduct. Lord, break about 2 hours in. ical opponents, President Trump directed
help them to remember that they can’t The CHIEF JUSTICE. Pursuant to John R. Bolton, then his national security
ignore You and get away with it for we the provisions of S. Res. 483, the Senate adviser, to help with his pressure campaign
always reap what we sow. has provided up to 4 hours of argument to extract damaging information on Demo-
Have Your way, Mighty God. You are by the parties, equally divided, on the crats from Ukrainian officials, according to
the potter. Our Senators and we are the question of whether or not it shall be an unpublished manuscript by Mr. Bolton.
Mr. Trump gave the instruction, Mr.
clay. Mold and make us after Your in order to consider and debate under Bolton wrote, during an Oval Office con-
will. Stand up, omnipotent God. the impeachment rules any motion to versation in early May that included the act-
Stretch Yourself and let this Nation subpoena witnesses or documents. ing White House chief of staff, Mick
and world know that You alone are Mr. Manager SCHIFF, are you a pro- Mulvaney, the president’s personal lawyer
sovereign. ponent or opponent? Rudolph W. Giuliani and the White House
I pray in the Name of Jesus. Amen. Mr. Manager SCHIFF. Proponent. counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, who is now leading
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Please join me The CHIEF JUSTICE. Mr. Cipollone, the President’s impeachment defense.
in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to are you a proponent or opponent? You will see in a few moments—and
the flag. Mr. CIPOLLONE. Opponent. you will recall Mr. Cipollone sug-
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The CHIEF JUSTICE. Mr. SCHIFF, gesting that the House managers were
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the you may proceed. concealing facts from this body. He
United States of America, and to the Repub- Mr. Manager SCHIFF. Before I begin, said all the facts should come out.
lic for which it stands, one nation under God, Mr. Chief Justice, the House managers Well, there is a new fact which indi-
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. will be reserving the balance of our cates that Mr. Cipollone was one of
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Senators, time to respond to the argument of those who were in the loop—yet an-
please be seated. counsel for the President. other reason why we ought to hear
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

∑ This ‘‘bullet’’ symbol identifies statements or insertions which are not spoken by a Member of the Senate on the floor.

S753

VerDate Sep 11 2014 02:20 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.000 S31JAPT1
S754 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
from witnesses. Just as we predicted— the House. The evidence in the record The House Republicans’ own expert
and it didn’t require any great act of is sufficient. It is sufficient to convict witness in the House, Professor Turley,
clairvoyance—the facts will come out. the President on both Articles of Im- said, if you could prove the President
They will continue to come out. And peachment—more than sufficient. used our military aid to pressure
the question before you today is wheth- But that is simply not how trials Ukraine to investigate a political rival
er they will come out in time for you work. As any prosecutor or defense and interfere in our elections, it would
to make a complete and informed judg- lawyer would tell you, when a case be an impeachable abuse of power. Sen-
ment as to the guilt or innocence of goes to trial, both sides call witnesses ator GRAHAM, too, recognized that, if
the President. and subpoena documents to bring be- such evidence existed, it could poten-
Now, that Times article goes on to fore the jury. That happens every day tially change his mind on impeach-
say: in courtrooms all across America. ment.
Mr. Trump told Mr. Bolton to call There is no reason why this impeach- Well, we now have another witness—
Volodymyr Zelensky, who had recently won ment trial should be any different. The a fact witness—who would reportedly
election as president of Ukraine, to ensure commonsense practice is borne out of say exactly that. Ambassador Bolton’s
Mr. Zelensky would meet with Mr. Giuliani, precedence. There has never been— new manuscript, which we will discuss
who was planning a trip to Ukraine to dis- never before been—a full Senate im- in more detail in a moment, reportedly
cuss the investigations that the President peachment trial without a single wit- confirms that the President told him in
sought, in Mr. Bolton’s account. Mr. Bolton ness. In fact, you can see in the slide
never made the call, he wrote. no uncertain terms—we are talking
that in every one of the 15 prior im- about the former National Security
‘‘Never made the call.’’ Mr. Bolton peachment trials the Senate has called Advisor saying that the President told
understood that this was wrong. He un- multiple witnesses. Today we ask you him in no uncertain terms—no aid
derstood that this was not policy. He to follow this body’s uniform prece-
until investigations, including the
understood that this was a domestic dence and your common sense. We urge
Bidens.
political errand and refused to make you to vote in favor of subpoenaing For a week and a half, the President
the call. witnesses and documents. has said no such evidence exists. They
The account in Mr. Bolton’s manuscript Now, I would like to address one
are wrong. If you have any doubt about
portrays the most senior White House advis- question at the outset. There has been
the evidence, the evidence is at your
ers as early witnesses in the effort that they much back and forth about whether if
fingertips. The question is: Will you let
have sought to distance the President from. the House believes it has sufficient evi-
dence to convict, which we do, why do all of us, including the American peo-
Including the White House Counsel. ple, hear—simply hear—the evidence
Over several pages— we need more witnesses and docu-
ments? So I would like to be clear. The and make up their own minds? And you
According to the Times— can make up your own minds, but will
evidence presented over the past week
Mr. Bolton laid out Mr. Trump’s fixation on
and a half strongly supports a vote to we let the American people hear all of
Ukraine and the president’s belief, based on the evidence?
a mix of scattershot events, assertions and convict the President. The evidence is
You will recall that Ambassador
outright conspiracy theories, that Ukraine overwhelming. We have a mountain of
evidence. It is direct, it is corroborated Bolton, the President’s former Na-
tried to undermine his chances of winning tional Security Advisor, is one of the
the presidency in 2016. by multiple sources, and it proves that
As he began to realize the extent and aims the President committed grave im- witnesses we asked for last Tuesday.
of the pressure campaign, Mr. Bolton began peachable offenses to cheat in the next We did not know, at the time, what he
to object, he wrote in the book, affirming the election. would say. We didn’t know what kind
testimony of a former National Security The evidence confirms that if left in of witness he would be, but Ambas-
Council aide, Fiona Hill, who had said that office, President Trump will continue sador Bolton made clear that he was
Mr. Bolton warned that Mr. Giuliani was ‘‘a willing to testify and that he had rel-
hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody
to harm America’s national security.
He will continue to seek to corrupt the evant, firsthand knowledge that had
up.’’ not yet been heard. We urged—we ar-
upcoming election. And he will under-
Now, as you might imagine, the mine—he will undermine—our democ- gued—that we all deserved to hear that
President denies this. The President racy all to further his own personal evidence, but the President opposed
said today: ‘‘I never instructed John gain. him. Now we know why—because John
Bolton to set up a meeting for Rudy But this is a fundamental question Bolton could corroborate the rest of
Giuliani, one of the greatest corruption that must be addressed: Is this a fair our evidence and confirm the Presi-
fighters in America.’’ trial? Is this a fair trial? Is this a fair dent’s guilt.
So here you have the President say- trial? Without the ability to call wit- So, today, Senators, we come before
ing John Bolton is not telling the nesses and produce documents, the an- you, and we urge again—we argue—
truth. Let’s find out. Let’s put John swer is clearly and unequivocally no. It that you let this witness and the other
Bolton under oath. Let’s find out who was the President’s decision to contest key witnesses we have identified come
is telling the truth. A trial is supposed the facts, and that is his right, but be- forward so you will have all of the in-
to be a quest for the truth. Let’s not cause he has chosen to contest the formation available to you when you
fear what we will learn. As Mr. facts, he shall not be heard to complain make this consequential decision.
Cipollone said, let’s make sure that all that the House wishes to further prove If witnesses are not called here, these
facts come out. his guilt to answer the questions he proceedings will be a trial in name
Mrs. Manager DEMINGS. Mr. Chief would raise. He complains that few wit- only, and the American people clearly
Justice, Senators, counsel for the nesses spoke directly to the President know a fair trial when they see one.
President, last Tuesday, at the onset of about his misconduct beyond his damn- Large majorities of the American peo-
this trial, we moved for Leader MCCON- ing conversations with Sondland and ple want to hear from witnesses in this
NELL’s resolution to be amended to sub- Mulvaney. OK, let’s hear from others, trial, and they have a right to hear
poena documents and witnesses from then—the witnesses the House wishes from witnesses in this trial. Let’s hear
the outset. This body decided to hold to call directly to the President’s own from them. Let’s look them in the eye,
the question over. You have now heard words, his own admissions of guilt, his gain their credibility, and hear what
opening arguments from both sides. own confessions of responsibility. If they have to say about the President’s
You have seen the evidence that the they did not, all the President’s men actions.
House was able to collect. You have would be on their witness list, not ours. For the same reasons, this body
heard about the documents and wit- These witnesses and the documents should grant our request to subpoena
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

nesses President Trump blocked from their agencies produced tell the full documents, the documents that the
the House’s impeachment inquiry. We story. And I believe that we are inter- President also blocked the House from
have vigorously questioned both sides. ested in hearing the full story. You obtaining—documents from the White
The President’s counsel has urged should want to hear it. More than that, House, the State Department, the
you to decide this case and render your the American people—we know they DOD, and the OMB—that will complete
verdict upon the record assembled by want to hear it. the story and provide the whole truth,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.002 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S755
whatever that may be. We ask that you has written a judgment on Articles of the critical evidence we have is the re-
subpoena these documents so that you Impeachment without hearing from a sult of career officials who bravely
can decide for yourselves. If you have single witness or receiving a single rel- came forward despite the President’s
any doubt as to what occurred, let’s evant document from the President, obstruction, but those closest to the
look at this additional evidence. whose conduct is on trial. And why? President—some may say, like in the
To be clear, we are not asking you to How can we justify this break from musical ‘‘Hamilton,’’ those ‘‘in the
track down every single document or precedent? How would we justify it? room when it happened’’—followed his
to call every possible witness. We have For what reason would we break prece- instruction.
carefully identified only four key wit- dent in these proceedings? The President does not dispute that
nesses with direct knowledge, who can There are many compelling reasons these witnesses have information that
speak to the specific issues that the beyond precedent that demand sub- is relevant to this trial, that these in-
President has disputed, and we have poenas for witnesses and cases and doc- dividuals have personal and direct
targeted key documents which we un- uments in this case. knowledge of the President’s actions
derstand have already been collected. At this time, I yield to Manager GAR- and motivations and can provide the
For example, at the State Department, CIA. very evidence he says now that we
they have already been collected. Ms. Manager GARCIA of Texas. Mr. don’t have.
This will not cause a substantial Chief Justice, President’s counsel, Sen- The President’s counsel alleged the
delay. As I made clear last night, these ators, last week, I shared with you that House managers hid evidence from you.
matters can be addressed in a single I was reflecting on my first days at a (Text of Videotape presentation:)
week. As we made clear last night, school for baby judges. You all may re- Mr. Counsel CIPOLLONE. [B]ecause as
these matters can be addressed in a call that. I mentioned to you that one house managers, really their goal should be
single week. We know that from Presi- of the first things they told us was that to give you all of the facts because they’re
dent Clinton’s case. There, the Senate we had to be good listeners and be pa- asking you to do something very, very con-
voted to approve a motion for wit- tient, and you, as judges in this trial, sequential.
nesses on January 27. The next day, it And ask yourself, ask yourself, given the
have certainly passed the test. Thank fact you heard today that they didn’t tell
established procedures for those depo- you for being good listeners and for
sitions and adjourned as a Court of Im- you, who doesn’t want to talk about the
being patient with us. It has been quite facts? Who doesn’t want to talk about the
peachment until February 4. In that a long journey. facts?
brief period, the parties took three We are here today to talk about the Impeachment shouldn’t be a shell game.
depositions. The Senate then resumed other thing they told us in baby judge They should give you the facts.
its proceedings by voting to accept the school, and that was that we had to Ms. Manager GARCIA of Texas. This
deposition testimony into the RECORD. give all of the parties in front of us a is nice rhetoric, but it is simply incor-
In this trial, too, let’s do the same. fair hearing—an opportunity to be rect.
We should take a brief, 1-week break
heard, an opportunity to cross-examine The President’s counsel cherry-
for witness testimony and document
witnesses, an opportunity to bring evi- picked misleading bits of evidence,
collection, during which time the Sen-
dence. That is what I want to talk to cited deposition transcripts of wit-
ate can return to its normal business.
you about today because, in terms of nesses who subsequently corrected
The trial should not be allowed to be
fundamental fairness, subpoenas by the their testimony in public hearings and
different from every other impeach-
Senate in this trial would mitigate the said the opposite and, in some cases,
ment trial or any other kind of trial
damage caused by the President’s simply left out the second half of wit-
simply because the President doesn’t
wholesale obstruction of the House’s ness statements.
want us to know the truth. The Amer-
inquiry. The House managers accurately pre-
ican people—the American people we
The President claims that there is no sented the relevant evidence to you.
all represent, the American people we
direct evidence of his wrongdoing de- We spent about 20 hours presenting the
all love and care about—deserve to
spite direct evidence to the contrary facts and the evidence. The President’s
know the truth, and a fair trial re-
and Ambassador Bolton’s offer to tes- counsel spent 4 hours focusing on the
quires it.
This is too important of a decision to tify to even more evidence in a trial. facts and the evidence, and that evi-
be made without all of the relevant evi- Let’s not forget that the President is dence shows that the President is
dence. Before turning to the specific arguing that there is no direct evidence guilty. But to the extent certain facts
need for these witnesses and docu- while blocking all of us from getting were shown to you, let’s be very clear:
ments, I want to make clear that we that direct evidence. We are not the ones hiding the facts.
are not asking you, again, to break It is a remarkable position that they The House managers did not hide that
new ground. We are asking quite the have taken. Quite frankly, never, as a evidence. President Trump hid the evi-
opposite. We are asking you to simply lawyer or as a former judge, have I ever dence. That is why we are the ones
follow the Senate’s unbroken precedent seen anything like this. For the first standing up here, asking you to not let
and to do so in a manner that allows time in our history, President Trump the President silence these witnesses
you to continue the Senate’s ordinary ordered his entire administration—his and hide these documents.
business. entire administration—to defy every We don’t know precisely what the
The Senate, in sitting as a Court of single impeachment subpoena. The witnesses will say or what the docu-
Impeachment, has heard witness testi- Trump administration has not pro- ments would show, but we all deserve
mony in every other—as we have said duced a single document in response to to hear the truth. And, more impor-
earlier—15 impeachment trials in the the congressional subpoenas—not a sin- tantly, the American people deserve to
history of the Republic. In fact, these gle page, nada. That has never hap- hear the truth.
trials had an average of 33 witnesses, pened before. There is no legal privi- Never before has a President been
and the Senate has repeatedly subpoe- lege to justify a blanket blocking of all put—put himself above the law and hid
naed and received new documents while of these documents. We know that the facts of his offenses from the Amer-
adjudicating cases of impeachment. there are more relevant documents. ican people like this one. We cannot let
That makes sense. Under our Constitu- There is no dispute about that; it is this President be different. Quite sim-
tion, the Senate does not just vote on uncontested. Witnesses have testified ply, the stakes are too high.
impeachments, and it does not just de- in exceptional detail about these docu- Second, as this builds on what we
bate them. Instead, the Senate is com- ments that exist that the President is have been arguing, the Senate requires
manded by the Constitution to try all simply hiding. and should want a complete evi-
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

cases of impeachment. Well, a trial re- President Trump’s blanket order of dentiary record before you vote on the
quires witnesses. A trial requires docu- prohibiting the entire executive branch most sacred task that the Constitution
ments. This is the American way, and from participating in the impeachment entrusts in every single one of you.
this is the American story. investigation also extends to witnesses. I can respect that some of you have
If the Senate denies our motions, it There are 12 in all who followed that deep beliefs that the removal of this
would be the only time in history it order and refused to testify. Much of President would be divisive. Others,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.003 S31JAPT1
S756 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
you may believe that allowing this The process is more than just the ul- Ambassador’s manuscript in the begin-
President to remain in the Oval Office timate decision because the faith in ning, and Manager SCHIFF referenced it
would be catastrophic to our Republic our institution depends on the percep- as well, but he said directly that the
and our democracy. tion of a fair process. A vote against President told him this.
But regardless of where you are, re- witnesses and documents undermines Now, the President has publicly
gardless of where you land on the spec- that faith. lashed out in recent days at Ambas-
trum, you should want a full and com- Senators, the American people want sador Bolton. He says that Ambassador
plete record before you make a final a fair trial. The overwhelming major- Bolton is—what Ambassador Bolton is
decision and to understand the full ity of Americans, three in four voters— saying is ‘‘nasty’’ and ‘‘untrue.’’ But
story. It should not be about party af- three in four—as of this past Tuesday denials in 280 characters is not the
filiation; it should be about seeing all believe that this trial should have wit- same as testimony under oath. We
the evidence and voting your con- nesses. Now, there is not much that the know that.
science based on all the relevant facts. American people agree on these days, Let’s put Ambassador Bolton under
It should be about doing impartial jus- but they do agree on that, and they oath and ask him point blank: Did the
tice. know what a fair trial is; that it in- President use $391 million of taxpayer
Consider the harm done to our insti- volves witnesses and it involves evi- money—military aid intended for an
tutions, our constitutional order, and dence. ally at war—to pressure Ukraine to in-
the public faith in our democracy if the The American people deserve to vestigate his 2020 opponent? The stakes
Senate chooses to close its eyes to know the facts about their President’s are too high not to.
learning the full truth about the Presi- conduct and those around him, and I would like to briefly walk you
dent’s misconduct. they deserve to have confidence in this through why Ambassador Bolton’s tes-
How can the American people have process, confidence that you made the timony is essential to ensuring a fair
confidence in the result of a trial with- right decision. In order to have that trial, also addressing some of the ques-
out witnesses? confidence, the Senate must call rel- tions that you have asked in the past 2
Third, the President should want a days.
evant witnesses and obtain relevant
fair trial. He has repeatedly said that First, turning back to Ambassador
documents withheld thus far by this
publicly; that he wants a trial on the Bolton’s manuscript, the President’s
President. The American people de-
merits. He specifically said it. You saw counsel has said: No scheme existed.
serve a fair trial.
a clip that he wanted a fair trial in the And the President’s counsel has cited
I now yield to my colleague Manager
Senate, and that would have to be with repeated denials, public denials of
CROW.
witnesses that testify, including John President Trump’s inner circle about
Mr. Manager CROW. Mr. Chief Jus-
Bolton and Mick Mulvaney. He said Bolton’s allegations—none of them, of
tice, Members of the Senate, counsel
that he wants a complete and total ex- course, under oath. And as we know
for the President, last week the House
oneration. from the testimony of Ambassador
Well, whatever you say about this managers argued for the testimony of
Bolton, how important being sworn in
trial, there cannot be a total—an exon- four witnesses: Ambassador John
really is.
eration without hearing from those Bolton, Mick Mulvaney, Robert Blair, But Ambassador Bolton, as the top
witnesses because an acquittal on an and Michael Duffey. And during the national security aide, has direct in-
incomplete record after a trial lacking presentations from both parties, it has sight into the President’s inner circle,
witnesses and evidence will be no exon- become abundantly clear why the di- and he is willing to testify under oath
eration. It will be no vindication—not rect testimony from those witnesses is whether ‘‘everyone was in the loop,’’ as
for the President, not for this Cham- so critical, and new evidence continues he testified before.
ber, and not for the American people. to underscore that importance. Ambassador Bolton reportedly knows
And if the President is telling the So let’s start with John Bolton. The ‘‘new details about senior cabinet offi-
truth and he did nothing wrong and the President’s counsel has repeatedly cials who have publicly tried to side-
evidence would prove that, then we all stated that the President didn’t per- step involvement,’’ including Secretary
know that he would be an enthusiastic sonally tell any of our witnesses that Pompeo and Mr. Mulvaney’s knowledge
supporter of subpoenas. He would be he linked the military aid to the inves- of the scheme.
here probably himself, if he could, urg- tigations. Second, Ambassador Bolton has di-
ing you to do subpoenas if he had infor- (Text of Videotape presentation:) rect knowledge of key events outside of
mation that would prove he was totally PURPURA: There is simply no evidence the July 25 call that confirm the Presi-
not in the wrong. If he is innocent, he anywhere that President Trump ever linked dent’s scheme. Remember, this is ex-
should have nothing to hide. His coun- security assistance to any investigations[.] actly the type of direct evidence the
[M]ost of the democrats[’] witnesses have
sel should be the ones here asking President’s counsel say doesn’t exist.
never spoken to the President at all let alone
today to subpoena Bolton and about Ukraine security assistance.
That is partly because they would like
Mulvaney and others for testimony. . . . you to believe that the July 25 call
The President would be eager to have Not a single witness testified that the makes up all of the evidence of our
the people closest to him to testify President himself said that there was any case. The call, of course, is just a part
about his innocence. He would be eager connection between any investigations and of the large body of evidence that you
to present the documents that show he security assistance, a presidential meeting, have heard about the past week, but it
was concerned about corruption and or anything else. is a key part. But Ambassador Bolton
burden-sharing. But the fact that he Mr. Manager CROW. Now, that is has critical insight into the President’s
has so strenuously opposed the testi- simply not true, as the testimony of misconduct outside of this call, and
mony of his closest advisers and all the Ambassador Sondland and the admis- you should hear it.
documents speak volumes. sion of Mick Mulvaney make very Take, for example, the July 10 meet-
You should issue subpoenas to the clear. ing with U.S. and Ukrainian officials at
President so that the President can get The evidence before you proves that the White House. Dr. Hill testified dur-
the fair trial that he wanted—but more the President not only linked the aid ing the meeting that Ambassador
importantly, so the American people to the investigations, he also condi- Sondland said that he had a deal with
can get the fair trial that they deserve. tioned both the White House meeting Mr. Mulvaney to schedule a White
The American people deserve a fair and the aid on Ukraine’s announce- House meeting if Ukrainians did the in-
trial. ment of the investigations. vestigations. According to Dr. Hill,
I said at the onset of this trial that But if you want more, a witness to when Ambassador Bolton learned this,
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

one of the most important decisions acknowledge that the President told he told her to go back to the NSC’s
you would make at this moment in his- them directly that the aid was linked, Legal Advisor, John Eisenberg, and tell
tory will not be whether you convict or a witness in front of you, then you him, ‘‘I am not a part of whatever drug
acquit but whether the President and have the power to ask for it. deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cook-
the American people will get a fair I mentioned this portion—there is a ing up on this.’’ We already have cor-
trial. slide. I mentioned this portion of the roboration of Dr. Hill’s testimony from

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.005 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S757
other witnesses like Lieutenant Colo- The President has suggested that Mr. with the President himself, urged the
nel Vindman. Giuliani wasn’t doing anything im- President that there was no legitimate
And we have new corroboration from proper, and he was not involved in con- reason to withhold the aid.
Ukraine too. Oleksandr Danylyuk, ducting policy. By their own admis- But if you are not sure, if you think
President Zelensky’s former national sion, they said he wasn’t doing policy. this could in any way have been about
security advisor, recently confirmed in So let’s ask John Bolton what Giuliani a legitimate policy reason, let’s ask
an interview that the ‘‘roadmap [for was doing and whether the investiga- the National Security Advisor, who
U.S.-Ukraine relations] should have tions were politically motivated or was in charge of that. If this was sim-
been the substance but . . . [the inves- part of our foreign policy. ply a policy dispute, as the President
tigations] were raised.’’ He would know. Dr. Hill testified argues, let’s ask John Bolton whether
Danylyuk also explained why this that Ambassador Bolton said Mr. that is true.
was so problematic. He raised concerns Giuliani was ‘‘a hand grenade,’’ which The President also argues that you
that being ‘‘dragged into this internal he explained referred to ‘‘all of the cannot evaluate the President’s subjec-
process . . . would be really bad for the statements that Mr. Giuliani was mak- tive intent—that the President can use
country. And also, if there’s something ing publicly, that the investigations his power any way he feels is appro-
that violates U.S. law, that’s up to the that he was promoting, that the story priate. That is, of course, not the case.
U.S. to handle.’’ line he was promoting, the narrative he Whether his intent was corrupt is a
Danylyuk elaborated that there were was promoting was going to backfire.’’ central part of this case, as it is in
serious things to discuss at the meet- The narrative Mr. Giuliani was pro- nearly every criminal case in the coun-
ing, but if instead Ukraine was dragged moting, of course, was asking Ukraine try. As a backup argument, however,
into ‘‘internal politics, using our presi- to dig up dirt on Biden. the President’s counsel claims that we
dent who was fresh on the job, inexpe- Dr. Hill also testified that Ambas- want you to read the President’s mind.
rienced, that could just destroy every- sador Bolton was so concerned, he told (Text of Videotape presentation:)
thing.’’ Dr. Hill and other members of the NSC Mr. Counsel SEKULOW. This entire im-
Another key defense raised by the staff that ‘‘nobody should be meeting peachment process is about the House man-
with Giuliani,’’ and that he was ‘‘close- agers’ insistence that they are able to read
President has been that Ukraine felt no everybody’s thoughts. They can read
pressure, that these investigations are ly monitoring what Mr. Giuliani was everybody’s intention . . .
entirely proper. Well, here is Ukraine doing and the messaging he was send- Mr. Counsel SEKULOW. They think you
saying the opposite of that. You know ing out.’’ can read minds.
what else Danylyuk said in the inter- So let’s ask Ambassador Bolton: If Mr. PHILBIN. They want to tell you what
view? ‘‘It was definitely John who I Mr. Giuliani wasn’t doing anything President Trump thought.
trusted,’’ talking about Ambassador wrong, why were you so concerned Mr. Manager CROW. Now, juries, of
Bolton. about his behavior that you directed course, are routinely asked to deter-
So if you want to know whether your staff to have no part in this? If mine the defendant’s state of mind.
Ukrainians felt pressure, call John Mr. Giuliani wasn’t trying to dig up That is central to almost every crimi-
Bolton as a witness. He was trusted by dirt on Biden, why did you seem to nal case in the country. And it is dis-
Ukraine, and he was there for these think that he could ‘‘blow everything ingenuous for the President’s counsel
key meetings, and he was so concerned up’’? to argue that the defendant’s state of
that he characterized the scheme as a Fourth, the President has said that mind in unknowable, that it requires a
‘‘drug deal’’ and urged Dr. Hill and oth- there was nothing wrong with the July mind reader, or is anything but the
ers to report their concerns to NSC 25 call. But once again the evidence most common element of proof of any
legal counsel, who reports to White suggests that Ambassador Bolton crime, constitutional or otherwise. But
House Counsel Cipollone. would testify that the opposite is true. if you want more information, let’s ask
So let’s ask Ambassador Bolton these According to witness testimony, Am- the President whether John Bolton can
questions directly under oath: The bassador Bolton expressed concerns help fill in any gaps about his state of
President says Ukraine felt no pres- even before the call that it would be ‘‘a mind.
sure, that soliciting these investiga- disaster’’ because he thought there (Text of Videotape presentation:)
tions wasn’t improper. Is that true? If could be ‘‘talk of investigations or President TRUMP. If you think about it,
it is true, why is Ukraine publicly say- worse.’’ Now, if the President would he knows some of my thoughts. He knows
have you believe that the call was per- what I think about leaders.
ing that the talk of investigations
could destroy everything? And if the fect, as he has repeatedly stated, why Mr. Manager CROW. This case is
President’s administration thought don’t we find out? Because all of the about the President’s conduct in
this was OK, why did you use the words evidence before you suggests otherwise. Ukraine. John Bolton knows a lot
‘‘drug deal?’’ We should ask him that. And Ukraine knows this is not the about that. Let’s hear from him. A fair
Why did you urge your staff to report case. The call was not perfect. trial demands it. It is more than just
concerns to lawyers? These are all Danylyuk is clear on this point. He ensuring a fair trial, it is about remem-
questions that we can get the answers said: bering that in America, truth matters.
to. One thing I can tell you that was clear As Mr. Bolton said on January 30, ‘‘the
Third, the President has suggested from this [July 25] call is that the issue of idea that somehow testifying to what
the investigations is an issue of concern for you think is true is destructive to the
the House managers have not presented
Trump. It was clear. system of government we have, I think
any direct evidence about Mr.
Giuliani’s role in the scheme. But if there is still any uncertainty, is very nearly the reverse, the exact re-
(Text of Videotape presentation:) we must ask Ambassador Bolton: If verse of the truth.’’
there was no scheme, how did you As Manager SCHIFF started this out,
Ms. Counsel RASKIN. In fact, it appears
the House committee wasn’t particularly in-
know President Trump would raise in- the truth continues to come out.
terested in presenting you with any direct vestigations on the call? What made Again, in an article today, more infor-
evidence of what Mayor Giuliani did or why you so concerned the call would be a mation. The truth will come out, and it
he did it. Instead, they ask you to rely on ‘‘disaster’’? is continuing to. The question here be-
hearsay, speculation, and assumption, evi- Fifth, the President’s main defense, fore this body is, What do you want
dence that would be inadmissible in any once again, is that he withheld the your place in history to be? Do you
court. military aid for legitimate reasons. want your place in history to be let’s
Mr. Manager CROW. Well, once But the evidence doesn’t support that. hear the truth or that we don’t want to
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

again, that is simply not true. But if You have heard a lot. The evidence hear it?
you want more evidence, we know that doesn’t support that. Witness testi- Mr. Manager JEFFRIES. Given our
Ambassador Bolton has direct evidence mony, emails, and other documents time constraints, we will now summa-
of Mr. Giuliani’s role regarding confirm that Ambassador Bolton and rize the reasons why Mr. Mulvaney,
Ukraine and expressed concerns about his subordinates on many occasions, Mr. Duffey, and Mr. Blair are also im-
it. including through in-person meetings portant.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 02:20 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.006 S31JAPT1
S758 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
Let’s turn first to Mr. Mulvaney. To Well, we know the answer—because Mr. Question. So the demand for an investiga-
begin with, Mr. Mulvaney participated Mulvaney will confirm the corrupt tion into the Democrats was part of the rea-
in meetings and discussions with Presi- shakedown scheme because Mr. son that he wanted to withhold funding to
Ukraine.
dent Trump at every single stage of Mulvaney was in the loop. Answer. The look back to what happened
this scheme. We just talked about mo- Everyone was in the loop. in 2016—
tives and intent. Well, if you want fur- As Ambassador Sondland summa- Question. The investigation into Demo-
ther insight into the President’s mo- rized in his testimony on July 19, he crats—
tives or intent, further direct evidence emailed several top administration of- Answer.—certainly was part of the thing
that he was worried about in corruption with
of why he withheld the military aid ficials, including Mr. Mulvaney, that
that nation. That is absolutely appropriate.
and the White House meeting, you President Zelensky was prepared to re- Question. But to be clear, what you just
should call his Acting Chief of Staff, ceive POTUS’s call and would ‘‘assure’’ described is a quid pro quo. It is: Funding
who has more access than anyone. President Trump that ‘‘he intends to will not flow unless the investigation into
Mr. Mulvaney is important because run a fully transparent investigation the Democratic server happens as well.
the President’s counsel continues to and will ‘turn over every stone.’’’ Answer. We do that all the time with for-
argue—incorrectly—that our evidence Mr. Mulvaney replied: ‘‘I asked NSC eign policy. We were holding the money at
the same time for—what was it? The North-
is just hearsay and speculation. Faced to set it up for tomorrow.’’ ern Triangle countries. We were holding up
with Ambassador Sondland and Mr. The above email seems clear. Ambas- aid to the Northern Triangle countries so
Holmes saying this was all as clear as sador Sondland testified that it was that they would change their policies on im-
two plus two equals four, the President clear; that he was confirming to Mr. migration. By the way, and this speaks to an
says, ‘‘[T]hey are just guessing.’’ That Mulvaney that he had told President important—I’m sorry? This speaks to an im-
is simply not true. The evidence is di- Zelensky he had to tell President portant point, because I heard this yesterday
rect, the evidence is compelling and Trump on that July 25 call that he and I can never remember the gentleman
whose testimony—Was it McKinney, the
confirmed by many witnesses, corrobo- would announce the investigation, guy—was that his name? I don’t know him.
rated by text messages, emails, and which he explained was a reference to He testified yesterday. And if you go—and if
phone records. But if you want more one of the two phony political inves- you believe those reports—okay? Because
evidence, if you want another firsthand tigations that President Trump want- we’ve not seen any transcripts of this. The
account of why the aid was withheld ed. And Mr. Mulvaney replies that he only transcript I’ve seen was Sondland’s tes-
for the undisputed quid pro quo for will set up the meeting—consistent timony this morning. If you read the news
that White House meeting, let’s just with the agreement that Sondland ex- reports and you believe them—what did
hear from Mick Mulvaney. plained he reached with Mr. Mulvaney McKinney say yesterday? Well, McKinney
said yesterday that he was really upset with
Over and over again, Ambassador to condition a meeting on the inves- the political influence in foreign policy.
Sondland described to multiple wit- tigations. That was one of the reasons he was so upset
nesses how Mr. Mulvaney was directly But if there is any uncertainty, if about this. And I have news for everybody:
involved in the President’s scheme. there is any lingering questions about Get over it. There’s going to be political in-
Here is some of that testimony. what this means, let’s just question fluence in foreign policy.
(Text of Videotape presentation:) Mick Mulvaney under oath. Mr. Manager JEFFRIES. Is that
Dr. HILL. So when I came in, Gordon Mr. Mulvaney also matters because what the Constitution requires—‘‘Get
Sondland was basically saying, Look, we we have heard several questions from over it’’? Is that good enough for this
have a deal here. There will be a meeting. I this distinguished body of Senators body, the world’s greatest deliberative
have a deal here with Chief of Staff
wanting to understand when or why or body—‘‘Get over it’’?
Mulvaney, there will be a meeting if the
Ukrainians open up or announce these inves- how the President ordered the hold on The President’s counsel can try to
tigations into 2016 and Burisma. And I cut it the security aid. As the head of the Of- emphasize Mr. Mulvaney and his attor-
off immediately there. fice of Management and Budget, Mr. neys’ efforts to walk back this state-
Ambassador Bolton told me that: I am not Mulvaney has unique insights into all ment, but, as you have seen with your
part of this whatever drug deal that of these questions—your questions. own eyes, the statement was unequivo-
Mulvaney and Sondland are cooking up. Remember that email exchange be- cal. And even when given the chance in
Mr. GOLDMAN. What did you understand
tween Mr. Mulvaney and his Deputy, real time on that day, on October 17, to
him to mean by the drug deal that Mulvaney
and Sondland were cooking up? Rob Blair, on June 27, when Mulvaney deny a quid pro quo, he doubled down.
Dr. HILL. I took it to mean investigations asked Blair about whether they could ‘‘Get over it,’’ he said.
for a meeting. implement the hold and Blair re- But if you have any questions about
Mr. GOLDMAN. Did you go to see the law- sponded that it could be done but that what the real answer is and where the
yers? Congress would become ‘‘unhinged’’? truth lies, there is only one way to find
Dr. HILL. I certainly did.
Mr. Manager SCHIFF. What I want to ask It wasn’t just Congress. It was the out: Let’s all just question Mr.
you about is, he makes reference in that independent Government Account- Mulvaney under oath during the Sen-
drug deal to a drug deal cooked up by you ability Office that determined that the ate trial. After all, counsel said that
and Mulvaney. It’s the reference to President’s hold violated the law. But, cross-examination was the greatest ve-
Mulvaney that I want to ask you about. if the President’s counsel is going to hicle in the history of American juris-
You’ve testified that Mulvaney was aware of argue—without evidence—that he with- prudence ever invented to ascertain the
this quid pro quo, of this condition that the held the aid as part of U.S. foreign pol- truth—your standard.
Ukrainians had to meet, that is, announcing Finally, I would like to touch briefly
icy, it seems to make sense that the
these public investigations to get the White
Senate should hear directly from Mr. on the importance of Mr. Blair and Mr.
House meeting. Is that right?
Ambassador SONDLAND. Yeah. A lot of Mulvaney, who has firsthand knowl- Duffey to this case.
people were aware of it . . . edge of exactly these facts. He said so The President’s lawyers have argued
Mr. Manager SCHIFF. Including Mr. himself. that withholding foreign aid is entirely
Mulvaney. (Text of Videotape presentation:) within his right as Commander in
Ambassador SONDLAND. Correct. Chief; that this was a normal, ordinary
Mr. MULVANEY: Again, I was involved
Mr. Manager JEFFRIES. Remark- with the process by which the money was decision; and that this is all just one
ably, the President is still denying the held up temporarily, okay? big policy disagreement.
facts, even as they argue that if it is Mr. Manager JEFFRIES. Why We have proven exactly the opposite.
true, it is still not impeachable. But if doesn’t President Trump want Mick This can’t be a policy disagreement be-
the President did nothing wrong, if he Mulvaney to testify? Why? cause the President’s hold actually
held up the aid because of so-called went against U.S. policy. The hold was
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

Perhaps here is why:


corruption or burden-sharing reasons, (Text of Videotape presentation:) undertaken outside of the normal
he should want his chief of staff to Answer. Did he also mention to me in the
channels by a President who, they
come testify under oath before this dis- past that the corruption related to the DNC admit, was not conducting policy. The
tinguished body and say just that. server, absolutely. No question about that. hold was concealed not only from Con-
Why doesn’t he want Mulvaney to ap- But that’s it. And that’s why we held up the gress but from the President’s own offi-
pear before the United States Senate? money. cials responsible for Ukraine policy,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.007 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S759
and, most importantly, the hold vio- the aid would prevent the Department President Zelensky, about scheduling
lated the law. of Defense from spending the money an Oval Office meeting with President
The President has the right to make before the end of the fiscal year, and Zelensky, about the President’s deci-
policy, but he does not have the right second, the hold was potentially ille- sion to hold security assistance, about
to break the law and coerce an ally gal, as turned out to be the case. communications among his top aides,
into helping him cheat in our free and By August 9, DOD told Mr. Duffey di- and about concerns raised by public of-
fair elections, and he doesn’t have a rectly that DOD—the Department of ficials with legal counsel. We have
right to use hundreds of millions of Defense—could no longer support the heard about Ambassador Bolton’s
dollars in taxpayer funds as leverage to Office of Management and Budget’s handwritten notes and book manu-
get political dirt on an American cit- claims that the hold would ‘‘not pre- script and Lieutenant Colonel
izen who happens to be his political op- clude timely execution’’ of the aid for Vindman’s Presidential policy memo-
ponent. Ukraine, our vulnerable ally at war randum. We know of reports about a
But if you remain unsure about all of with Russian-backed separatists. Yet, number of emails in early August try-
this, who better to ask than Mr. Blair as Mr. Duffey reportedly told Ms. ing to create after-the-fact justifica-
or Mr. Duffey? They oversaw and exe- McCusker at the Department of De- tions for the hold, but we haven’t seen
cuted the process of withholding the fense on August 30, there was a ‘‘clear any of them. They are at the White
aid. They can tell us exactly how unre- direction from POTUS to continue to House being hidden by the President. I
lated to business as usual this whole hold’’—clear direction from the Presi- think it is a coverup.
shakedown scheme was when it was un- dent of the United States to continue Documents are also at the State De-
derway. They can testify about why the hold. So how did Mr. Duffey under- partment, records about the recall of
the aid was withheld and whether there stand the ‘‘clear direction’’ to continue Ambassador Yovanovitch, about
was any legitimate explanation for the hold? Why is the President claim- Giuliani’s efforts for the President,
withholding it. Some of you have asked ing that this wasn’t unlawful when about concerns raised about the hold,
that very question. DOD—the Department of Defense—re- about the Ukrainian reaction to the
Multiple officials—including Ambas- peatedly warned his administration hold and when exactly they learned
sador Sondland, Ambassador Taylor, that it was? Wouldn’t we all like to ask about it, and about negotiations with
David Holmes, Lieutenant Colonel Mr. Duffey these questions? the Ukrainians for an Oval Office meet-
Vindman, Jennifer Williams, and Mark Finally, here is another reason why ing. We know about Ambassador Tay-
Sandy—all testified that they were we know this was not business as lor’s first-person cable and notes and
never given a credible explanation for usual. On July 29, Mr. Duffey—a polit- Mr. Kent’s memos to file. We know
the hold. So let’s ask Mr. Blair and ical appointee with zero relevant expe- about Mr. Sondland’s emails with
let’s ask Mr. Duffey if this happens all rience—abruptly seized responsibility Pompeo and Brechbuhl and Mulvaney
the time, as Mick Mulvaney suggests. for withholding the aid from Mark and Perry, but we haven’t seen them.
Why, at this time, in connection with Sandy, a career Office of Management They are sitting in the State Depart-
this scheme, were all of those witnesses and Budget official—seized the respon- ment.
left in the dark? sibility from a career official. Mr. DOD and OMB also have records—
Despite the President’s refusal to Duffey provided no credible expla- records about President Trump’s hold
produce a single document and to nation for that decision. on military aid to Ukraine, about the
produce a shred of information in this Mr. Sandy testified that nothing like justification for the hold, about hiding
impeachment inquiry undertaken in that had ever happened in his entire the hold from Congress and trying to
the House, his administration did governmental career. Let’s think about justify the hold after the fact, and
produce 192 pages of Ukraine-related that. If this is as routine as the Presi- about why the hold was lifted, but we
email records in Freedom of Informa- dent claims, why is a career official haven’t seen them. They are at DOD
tion Act lawsuits, albeit in heavily re- saying he has never seen anything like and OMB. Why haven’t we seen them?
dacted form. These documents confirm this happen before? Mr. Duffey knows Because the President directed all his
Mr. Duffey’s central role in executing why. Shouldn’t we just take the time agencies not to produce them.
the hold. He is on nearly every single to ask him? This trial should not reward the
impeachment release—nearly every The American people deserve a fair President’s really unprecedented ob-
single email. trial. The Constitution deserves a fair struction by allowing him to control
Here is an important email from that trial. The President deserves a fair what evidence you see and what will
production. trial. A fair trial means witnesses. A remain hidden. You should ask for
Just 90 minutes after the July 25 call, fair trial means documents. A fair trial these documents on behalf of the
Mr. Duffey emailed officials at the De- means evidence. No one is above the American people, and you should ask
partment of Defense that they should law. for these documents to get the truth
‘‘hold off on any additional DOD obli- I yield to my distinguished colleague, yourself.
gations of these funds.’’ Mr. Duffey Manager LOFGREN. Now, let’s come back to the issue of
added that the request was ‘‘sensitive’’ Ms. Manager LOFGREN. Mr. Chief delay, since the President’s lawyers
and that they should keep this infor- Justice and Senators, it is not just have suggested that having witnesses
mation ‘‘closely held.’’ The timing is about hearing from witnesses; you need and documents would make this trial
important because if the aid wasn’t documents. The documents don’t lie. take too long. There will be lengthy
linked to the July 25 call and if it There are specific documents relevant court battles, they say. The President
wasn’t related, why the sensitive, to this impeachment trial in the cus- might even invoke executive privilege
closely held request made within 2 tody of the White House, OMB, DOD, for the very first time in this entire
hours of that call? Let’s just ask Mr. and the State Department, and the impeachment process. It would be bet-
Duffey. President has hidden them from us. ter, we are told, to skip straight to the
Mr. Duffey and Mr. Blair can testify I am not going to go through each final verdict, to break from centuries
about the concerns raised by DOD to category again in detail, but here are of precedent and end this trial without
the Office of Management and Budget some observations. hearing from a single witness and with-
about the illegality of the hold and This is, of course, an impeachment out reviewing a single document that
why it remained in place even after case against the President of the the President ordered hidden. Respect-
DOD warned the administration that it United States. Nothing could be more fully, that shouldn’t happen.
would violate the Impoundment Con- important. And the most important House managers aren’t interested in
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

trol Act. documents—documents that go di- delaying these proceedings. We are in-
Now, the President, of course, has rectly to who knew what when—are terested in the full truth; in a trial
disputed this fact, but we have dem- being held by the executive branch. that is fair to the parties and to the
onstrated that OMB was warned re- Many of these records are at the American people; in the facts that the
peatedly by DOD officials of two White House. The White House has President’s counsel agrees are so crit-
things: first, continuing to withhold records about the phone calls with ical to this trial. It is why we said we

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.009 S31JAPT1
S760 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
won’t go to court; we will follow all the President’s legal rights or cause undue two phone calls with President
rulings of the Chief Justice. We can get delay. Zelensky. All 17 witnesses testified
the witness depositions done in a week. Here is why. Let’s focus on John about the President’s conduct regard-
In fact, I know we can because if you, Bolton, since this week’s revelations ing Ukraine. We aren’t interested in
the Senators, order it, that is the law. confirm the importance of his testi- asking about anything other than
You have the sole power to try im- mony. Ukraine. That is simply a bogus argu-
peachments. First, as a private citizen, John ment.
If questions or objections come up, Bolton is fully protected by the First The Constitution uses the words
including objections based on executive Amendment if he wants to testify. ‘‘sole power’’ only twice: first, when it
privilege, the Senate itself and the There is no basis for imposing prior re- gives the House sole power to impeach;
Chief Justice, in the first instance, can straint for censoring him just because and, second, article 1, section 3, where
resolve them. We aren’t suggesting some of his testimony could include it gives the Senate sole power to try
that the President waive executive conversations with the President. That impeachments.
privilege. We simply suggest that the is commonplace. As long as his testi- Here is what it says:
Chief Justice can resolve issues related mony isn’t classified, it is shielded by The Senate shall have the sole Power to
to any assertion of executive privilege. the free speech clause of the First try all Impeachments. . . . When the Presi-
As the Supreme Court recognized in Amendment. dent of the United States is tried, the Chief
Justice shall preside.
the case of Judge Walter Nixon, judges Ambassador Bolton has written a
will stay out of disputes over how the book. It is inconceivable that he is for- Now, I think that provision in the
Senate exercises its sole power to try bidden from telling the U.S. Senate, Constitution means something. It is up
impeachments. That ensures there will sitting as a High Court of Impeach- to the Senate to decide how to try this
be no unnecessary delay, and it is why ment, information that shortly will be impeachment with fairness, with wit-
we propose we suspend the trial for 1 in print. nesses, and documents.
If the President did attempt to in- Privileges asserted can be decided
week, and that during that time, you
voke executive privilege, he would fail. using the process that you devise. That
go back to business as usual. While the
It is true for separate reasons. First, is not unconstitutional. It is what the
trial is suspended, we will take witness
claims of executive privilege always in- Constitution provides.
depositions and review the documents You have the power. You decide.
that are provided at your direction. volve a balancing of interests. The Su-
Please decide for a fair trial that would
The four witnesses you should hear preme Court confirmed in U.S. v.
yield the truth and serve our Constitu-
from are readily available. Ambassador Nixon—the Nixon tapes case—that ex-
tion and the American people.
Bolton has already said he will appear. ecutive privilege can be overcome by a I yield now to Manager SCHIFF.
We can and would move quickly to de- need for evidence in a criminal trial. Mr. Manager SCHIFF. Senators, be-
pose these witnesses within a week of That is even more true here in an im- fore we yield to counsel for the Presi-
the issuance of subpoenas. The docu- peachment trial of the President of the dent, I would like to take a moment by
ments, too, are ready to be produced. United States, which is probably the talking about what I think is at stake
We are ready to review them quickly most important interest under the here. A ‘‘no’’ vote on the question be-
and to present additional evidence. Constitution. It would certainly out- fore you will have long-lasting and
Meanwhile, the Senate can continue weigh any claim of privilege. harmful consequences long after this
going about its important legislative Precedent confirms the point. To impeachment trial is over.
work, as it did during the depositions name just a few, National Security Ad- We agree with the President’s coun-
in the Clinton impeachment trial. visors for President Carter, Zbigniew sel on this much: This will set a new
The President’s opposition to this Brzezinski; President Clinton, Samuel precedent. This will be cited in im-
suggestion says a lot. The President is Berger; President George W. Bush, peachment trials from this point to the
the architect of the very delay he Condoleezza Rice; and President end of history. You can bet in every
warns against. He could easily avoid it. Obama, Susan Rice, testified in con- impeachment that follows, whether it
He could move things along. He could gressional investigations. These advi- is a Presidential impeachment or the
stop trying to silence witnesses and sors discussed their communications impeachment of a judge, if that judge
hide evidence. I think he is afraid the with top government officials, includ- or President believes that it is to his or
truth will come out. He hopes his ing the Presidents they served. There her advantage that there shall be a
threats of continued delay, however is no reason why all of these officials trial with no witnesses, they will cite
unjustified, will cause you to throw up could testify in the normal course of the case of Donald J. Trump. They will
your hands and give up on a fair trial. events and hearings, but Ambassador make the argument that you can adju-
Please don’t give up. This is too impor- Bolton, a former official, couldn’t tes- dicate the guilt or innocence of the
tant for our democracy. tify in the most important trial there party who is accused without hearing
A decision to forgo witnesses and could possibly be. from a single witness, without review-
documents at this trial would be a big The second reason is the President ing a single document. And I would
departure from Senate precedent. When waived any claim of executive privilege submit that will be a very dangerous
the Senate investigated Watergate, it about Ambassador Bolton’s testimony. and long-lasting precedent that we will
heard from the highest White House of- All 17 witnesses testified in the House all have to live with.
ficials. That happened because a bipar- about these matters without any asser- President Trump’s wholesale obstruc-
tisan majority of the Senate insisted. tion of privilege by the President. tion of Congress strikes at the heart of
We got to the truth then because the President Trump, as well as his law- our Constitution and democratic sys-
Senate came together and put a fair yers and senior officials, have publicly tem of separation of powers. Make no
proceeding above party loyalty. discussed and tweeted about these mistake. The President’s actions in
We should all want the truth, and so issues at some length. The President this impeachment inquiry constitute
we ask you to do it again—that you put has also directly denied reports about an attack on congressional oversight
aside any politics, party loyalty. Be- what Ambassador Bolton will say in on the coequal nature of this branch of
lieve in your President, which we un- his forthcoming book. Under these cir- government, not just on the House but
derstand and sympathize with, but sub- cumstances, the President cannot be on the Senate’s ability, as well, to con-
poena the documents and the witnesses allowed to tell his version of his story duct its oversight, to serve as a check
necessary to make this a fair trial, to to the public while using executive and balance on this President and
hear and see the evidence you need to privilege to silence a key witness who every President that follows.
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

impartially administer justice. would contradict him. You shouldn’t If the Senate allows President
Now, there has been a lot of discus- let the President escape responsibility Trump’s obstruction to stand, it effec-
sion of executive privilege during this only to later see clearly what happened tively nullifies the impeachment
trial. Even if the President asserts ex- in Ambassador Bolton’s book. power. It will allow future Presidents
ecutive privilege—something he has There are no national security risks to decide whether they want their mis-
not yet done—it wouldn’t harm the here. The President has declassified the conduct to be investigated or not,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 02:24 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.010 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S761
whether they would like to participate peachment by holding a fair trial. Get cence is important, but it is not the
in an impeachment investigation or the documents they refuse to provide most important decision. If we have a
not. That is a power of the Congress. to the House. Hear the witnesses they fair trial, however that trial turns out,
That is not a power of the President. refuse to make available to the House, whatever your verdict may be, at least
By permitting a categorical obstruc- just as this body has done in every sin- we can agree we had a fair trial. At
tion, it turns the impeachment power gle impeachment trial until now. least we can agree that the House had
against itself. Let the American people know that a fair opportunity to present its case.
How we respond to this unprece- you understand they deserve the truth. At least we can agree that the Presi-
dented obstruction will shape future Let them know you still care about the dent had a fair opportunity to present
debates between our branches of gov- truth, that the truth still matters. their case—if we have a fair trial. And
ernment and the executive forever. And Though much divides us, on this we we can disagree about the verdict, but
it is not just impeachment. The ability should agree: A trial, stripped of all its we can all agree the system worked as
of Congress to conduct meaningful and trappings, should be a search for the it was intended. We had a fair trial,
probing oversight—oversight that, by truth, and that requires witnesses and and we reached a decision.
its nature, is intended to be a check testimony. Rob this country of a fair trial, and
and balance on the awesome powers of Now, you may have seen just this there can be no representation that the
the executive branch—hinges on our afternoon, the President’s former Chief verdict has any meaning. How could it,
willingness to call witnesses and com- of Staff, General Kelly, said ‘‘a Senate if the result is baked in by the process?
pel documents that President Trump is trial without witnesses is a job only Assure the American people, whatever
hiding with no valid justification, no half done.’’ A trial without witnesses is the result may be, that at least they
precedential support. only half a trial. Well, I have to say I got a fair shake.
If we tell the President, effectively, can’t agree. A trial without witnesses There is a reason why the American
‘‘You can act corruptly, you can abuse is no trial at all. You either have a people want to hear from witnesses,
the powers of your office to coerce a trial or you don’t. And if you are going and it is not just about curiosity. It is
foreign government to helping you to have a real trial, you need to hear because they recognize that in every
cheat in an election by withholding from the people who have firsthand in- courtroom in America that is just what
military aid, and when you are caught, formation. Now, we have presented happens. And if it doesn’t happen here,
you can further abuse your powers by some of them to you, but you know as the government has become arbitrary;
concealing the evidence of your wrong- well as we there are others that you there is one person who is entitled to a
doing,’’ the President becomes unac- should hear from. different standard, and that is the
countable to anyone. Our government Let me close this portion with words, President of the United States. And
is no longer a government with three I think, more powerful than General that is the last thing the Founders in-
coequal branches. The President effec- Kelly’s. They come from John Adams, tended.
tively, for all intents and purposes, be- who in 1776 wrote: Together with the Mr. Chief Justice, we reserve the bal-
comes above the law. right to vote, those who wrote our Con- ance of our time.
This is, of course, the opposite of stitution considered the right to trial The CHIEF JUSTICE. Thank you,
what the Framers intended. They pur- by jury ‘‘the heart and lungs, the main- Mr. Manager.
posely entrusted the power of impeach- spring and the center wheel’’ of our lib- The majority leader is recognized.
ment to the legislative branch so that erties, without which ‘‘the body must RECESS
it may protect the American people die, the watch must run down, the gov- Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
from a President who believes that he ernment must become arbitrary.’’ I request that the Senate take a 15-
can do whatever he wants. Now, what does that mean? Without minute recess.
So we must consider how our actions a fair trial, the government must be- There being no objection, at 2:49
will reverberate for decades to come come arbitrary. Now, of course, he is p.m., the Senate, sitting as a Court of
and the impact they will have on the talking about the right of an average Impeachment, recessed until 3:40 p.m.;
functioning of our democracy. And as citizen to a trial by jury. whereupon the Senate reassembled
we consider this critical decision, it is Well, if in courtrooms all across when called to order by the CHIEF JUS-
important to remember that no matter America, when someone is tried but TICE.
what you decide to do here, whether they are a person of influence and The CHIEF JUSTICE. Please be seat-
you decide to hear witnesses and rel- power, they can declare at the begin- ed.
evant testimony, the facts will come ning of the trial ‘‘If the government’s We are ready to hear the presen-
out in the end. Even over the course of case is so good, let them prove it with- tation from counsel for the President.
this trial, we have seen so many addi- out witnesses’’; if people of power and Mr. Counsel PHILBIN. Mr. Chief Jus-
tional facts come to light. The facts influence can insist to the judge that tice, Members of the Senate, the House
will come out. In all of their horror, the House, that the prosecutors, that managers have said throughout their
they will come out, and there are more the government, that the people must presentation and throughout all of the
court documents and deadlines under prove their case without witnesses or proceedings here again and again that
the Freedom of Information Act. Wit- documents, a right reserved only for you can’t have a trial without wit-
nesses will tell their stories in future the powerful—because, you know, only nesses and documents, as if it is just
congressional hearings, in books, and Donald Trump—only Donald Trump, of that simple. If you are going to have a
in the media. This week has made that any defendant in America can insist on trial, there have to be new witnesses
abundantly clear. a trial with no witnesses—if that and documents. But it is not that sim-
The documents the President is hid- should be true in courts throughout the ple. It is really a trope that is being
ing will come out. The witnesses the land, then, as Adams wrote, the gov- used to disguise the real issues, the
President is concealing will tell their ernment becomes arbitrary because real decisions that you would be mak-
stories. And we will be asked why we whether you have a fair trial or no ing on this decision about witnesses,
didn’t want to hear that information trial at all depends on whether you are because there is a lot more at stake.
when we had the chance, when we a person of power and influence like Let me unpack that and explain what
could consider its relevance and impor- Donald J. Trump. is really at stake there.
tance in making this most serious deci- The body will die. The clock will run The first is this idea that, if you
sion. What answer shall we give if we down. And our government becomes ar- come to trial, you have to always go to
do not pursue the truth now, if we bitrary. The importance of a fair trial witnesses, have new witnesses come in,
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

allow it to remain hidden until it is too here is not less than in every court- but that is not true. In every legal sys-
late to consider on the profound issue room in America; it is greater than in tem and in our legal systems on both
of the President’s innocence or guilt? any courtroom in America because we the civil and criminal sides, there is a
What we are asking you to do on be- set the example for America. way to decide right up front, in some
half of the American people is simple: I said at the outset, and I will repeat quick way, whether there is really a
Use your sole power to try this im- again: Your decision on guilt or inno- triable issue, whether you really need

VerDate Sep 11 2014 02:20 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.012 S31JAPT1
S762 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
to go to all the trouble of calling in you are going to have a trial, there just John Bolton, and they didn’t go
new witnesses and having more evi- has to be witnesses,’’ as if the most or- through the process. When other wit-
dence in something like that. There is dinary thing is you get to trial and nesses were subpoenaed—when Dr.
not here. There is no need for that be- then start subpoenaing new witnesses Kupperman—Charlie Kupperman—went
cause these Articles of Impeachment, and documents. That is not true either, to court, they withdrew the subpoena.
on their face, are defective, and we and we pointed this out. And now to say that ‘‘Well, fairness de-
have explained that. Let me start with In the regular courts, the way things mands that this body has to do all that
the second article, the obstruction work is you have got to do a lot of work’’—that sets a new precedent, as
charge. work preparing a trial—called dis- well, and it changes—it would change
We have explained that that charge covery—to find out about witnesses for all of the future the relationship be-
is really trying to say that it is an im- and depose them and find out about tween the House and the Senate in im-
peachable offense for the President to documents before you get to trial. You peachment inquiries. It would mean
defend the separation of powers. That can’t show up the day of trial and say: that the Senate has to become the in-
can’t be right. It is also the case that Oh, Your Honor, actually, we are not vestigatory body.
no witnesses are going to say anything ready. We didn’t subpoena John Bolton And the principles that they assert—
that makes any difference to the sec- or witness X or witness Y, and now we they did a process that wasn’t fair.
ond Article of Impeachment. That all want to subpoena that witness. Now we They did a process that was arbitrary,
has to do with the validity of the want to do discovery. that arbitrarily denied the President
grounds the President asserted, the And why does that matter here? Be- rights. They did a process that
fact that he asserted longstanding con- cause here, to show up not having done wouldn’t allow witnesses, and then
stitutional prerogatives of the execu- the work and to expect that work to be they came here on the first night—re-
tive branch in specific ways to resist done in the Senate, by this body, has member when we were all here until 2
specific deficiencies in the subpoenas grave consequences for the institu- o’clock—and in very belligerent terms
that were issued. No fact witness is tional interests of this body, and it sets said to the Members of this body: You
going to come in and say anything that a precedent—really sets an important are on trial. It will be treachery if you
relates in any way to that. It is not precedent for two bodies—for the Sen- don’t do what the House managers say.
going to make any difference. ate and for the House—because what That is not right. When it was their
On the first Article of Impeachment, the Senate accepts as an impeachment errors, when they were arbitrary and
that, too, is defective on its face. We coming from the House determines not they didn’t provide fairness, they can’t
have explained. We heard it again just precedent for the Senate but, real- project that onto this body to try to
today here. They have this subjective ly, precedent for the House in the fu- say that you have to make up for their
theory of impeachment that will show ture as well. errors, and if you don’t, the fault lies
abuse of power by focusing just on the If the procedures used in the House here.
President’s subjective motives, and to bring this proceeding here to this Now, they also suggest that it is not
they said again today, here, that the stage are accepted, if the Senate says going to take a long time, that they
way they can show the President did ‘‘Yes, we will start calling new wit- only want a few witnesses. But, of
something wrong is that he defied the nesses because you didn’t get the job course, if things are opened up to wit-
foreign policy of the United States. I done in whatever process you used to nesses and it is going to be fair, it is
talked about that before, this theory get it here,’’ then that becomes the not just one side; it is not just the wit-
that he defied the agencies within the new normal. And that is important in a nesses that they would want. The
executive branch. He wasn’t following couple of ways. President would have to be permitted
the policy of the executive branch. One is, as we have pointed out, the to have witnesses.
That is not a constitutionally coherent totally unprecedented process that was And with all respect, Mr. Chief Jus-
statement. used in the House that violated all no- tice, the idea that if a subpoena is sent
The theory of abuse of power that tions of due process. There are prece- to a senior adviser to the President and
they have framed in the first Article of dents going back 150 years in the the President determines that he will
Impeachment will do grave damage to House, ensuring that someone accused stand by the principle of immunity
the separation of powers under our in an impeachment hearing in the that has been asserted by virtually
Constitution because it would become House has due process rights to be rep- every President since Nixon, that that
so malleable that they could pour into resented by counsel, to cross-examine will just be resolved by the Senate
it anything they want to find illicit witnesses, to be able to present evi- right here, whether or not that privi-
motives for some perfectly permissible dence. They didn’t allow the President lege exists, by the Chief Justice sitting
action. It becomes so malleable that it to do that, and if this body says that is as the Presiding Officer—that doesn’t
is no different than maladministra- OK, then that becomes the new normal. make sense. That is not the way it
tion—the exact ground that the Fram- And they stand up here, the House works.
ers rejected during the Constitutional managers, and say this body will be un- The Senate, even when the Chief Jus-
Convention. fair if this body doesn’t call the wit- tice is the Presiding Officer here, can’t
The Constitution defines specific of- nesses. They talk about fairness. Where unilaterally decide the privileges of the
fenses. It limits and constrains the im- was the fairness in that proceeding in executive branch. That dispute would
peachment power. the House? have to be resolved in another way, and
Now, there is also the fact that we And Manager SCHIFF says that things it could involve litigation, and it could
actually heard from a lot of witnesses. would be arbitrary if you don’t do what take a lot of time.
We have heard from a lot of witnesses they said and call the witnesses they So the idea that this will all be done
in the proceedings so far. You have want. Well, wasn’t it arbitrary in the quickly if everyone just does what the
heard 192 video clips, by our count, House when they wouldn’t allow the House managers say is not realistic. It
from 13 different witnesses. There were President to be represented by counsel, is not the way that the process would
17 witnesses deposed in closed hearings wouldn’t allow the President to call actually have to play out in accord
in the House, and 12 of them testified witnesses? There was no precedent in a with the Constitution, and that has an-
again in open hearings. You have got Presidential impeachment inquiry to other significant consequence, again
all of those transcripts, so you can see have open hearings where the Presi- affecting this institution as a prece-
the witnesses’ testimony there. The dent and his counsel were excluded. dent going forward because what it
key portions have been played for you It also would set a precedent to allow suggests—the new normal that would
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

on the screens. And you have got over a package, a proceeding, from the be created then—is kind of an express
28,000 pages of documents and tran- House to come here that the House path for precisely the sort of impeach-
scripts. You have got a lot of evidence managers say ‘‘Well, now we need new ment that the Framers most feared.
already. witnesses; we haven’t done all the The Framers recognized that im-
But there is another principle that work,’’ and it is witnesses they didn’t peachments could be done for illegit-
they overlook when they say ‘‘Well, if even try to get. They didn’t subpoena imate reasons. They recognized that

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.014 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S763
there could be partisan impeachments. It is not the process that the Framers have the right to call witnesses and to
And if this is the new normal, this is had in mind, and it is not something cross-examine Mr. Volker. George
the very epitome of a partisan im- the Senate should condone in this case. Kent, the Deputy Assistant Secretary
peachment. There was bipartisan oppo- The Senate is not here to do the inves- of State for the Bureau of European
sition to it in the House, and it was tigatory work that the House didn’t do. and Eurasian Affairs, you saw his testi-
rushed through with unfair proce- Where there has been a process that mony. They called him. If we have wit-
dures—78 days total of inquiry. Think denied all due process, that produced a nesses, we have the right to call that
about that. In Nixon there had been in- record that can’t be relied upon, the re- witness and to cross-examine Deputy
vestigating committees, and there was action from this body should be to re- Assistant Secretary Kent.
a special prosecutor long before the ject the Articles of Impeachment, not The former United States Ambas-
House Judiciary Committee started its to condone and put its imprimatur on sador to Ukraine, Ambassador
investigation. the way the proceedings were handled Yovanovitch, they called her. You saw
In Clinton there was a special coun- in the House and not to prolong mat- that testimony. We did not have the
sel—an independent counsel for the ters further by trying to redo work opportunity to cross-examine her. If we
better part of a year before the House that the House failed to do by not seek- have witnesses, we would have to call
Judiciary Committee even started ing evidence and not doing a fair and her.
hearings. legitimate process to bring the Articles Laura Cooper, Deputy Assistant Sec-
Everything from start to finish in of Impeachment here. retary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine,
this case, from September 24 until the Thank you. and Eurasia, they called her. You saw
Articles of Impeachment were consid- The CHIEF JUSTICE. Mr. Sekulow. her witness testimony right here. We
ered in the Judiciary Committee, was Mr. Counsel SEKULOW. Mr. Chief did not have the opportunity to cross-
done in 78 days—in 78 days—and for 71 Justice, Members of the Senate, over a examine her. We would have to be
of them, the President was entirely 7-day period you did hear evidence. You given that opportunity.
locked out. heard evidence from 13 different wit- These are the witnesses against the
So the new normal would be nesses, 192 video clips, and as my col- President. Laura Cooper, Deputy Sec-
slapdash: Get it done quickly, unfair
league the Deputy White House Coun- retary of Defense for Russia and Eur-
procedures in the House to impeach a
sel said, over 28,000 pages of documents. asia—again, the same thing.
President; then bring it to the Senate, You heard testimony from Gordon David Hale, the Under Secretary of
and then all the real work of investiga- State for Political Affairs. He was
Sondland. He is the United States Am-
tion and discovery is going to have to
bassador to the European Union. You called by the House. You saw his testi-
take place with that impeachment
heard that testimony. He testified in mony. We never had the opportunity to
hanging over the President’s head, and
the House proceedings. I did not have cross-examine him. If we have wit-
that is a particular thing the Framers
an opportunity to cross-examine him. nesses, we have to have the oppor-
also were concerned about. I mentioned
If we get witnesses, I have to have that tunity to do that.
this the other day.
opportunity. There were other witnesses that were
In Federalist No. 65 Hamilton warned
specifically about what he called—I am William Taylor, former Acting called where you saw their testimony
quoting—‘‘the injury to the innocent, United States Ambassador to Ukraine, or heard their testimony or it was re-
from the procrastinated determination testified. You heard his testimony. We ferred to. Catherine Croft, Special Ad-
of the charges which might be brought didn’t get the opportunity to cross-ex- viser for Ukraine negotiation, Depart-
against them’’ because he understood amine him. He would be called. ment of State; Mark Sandy, the Dep-
that if an impeachment charge from Tim Morrison, the former senior di- uty Associate Director for National Se-
the House wasn’t resolved quickly, if it rector for Europe and Russia of the Na- curity Programs; and Christopher An-
was hanging over the President’s head, tional Security Council. You saw his derson, Special Adviser for Ukraine Ne-
that in itself would be a problem. And testimony. They put it up. We didn’t gotiations, Department of State—you
that is why they structured the im- get an opportunity—we did not have an heard their testimony referred to. We
peachment process so that the Senate opportunity to cross-examine him. did not have the opportunity to cross-
could be able to swiftly determine im- Jennifer Williams, special adviser on examine them.
peachments that were brought. That Europe and Russia for Vice President So this isn’t going to happen, if wit-
also suggests that is why there is a sys- MIKE PENCE. You saw her testimony. nesses are called in a week. Now, that
tem for having thorough investiga- They put it up. I did not have the op- is just the witnesses that have been
tions, a thorough process done in the portunity to cross-examine her. If we produced that you have seen by the
House. call witnesses, we would have to have House managers.
And Hamilton explained that delay that opportunity. You are being called upon to make
after the impeachment would afford an David Holmes, political counsel to consequential constitutional deci-
opportunity for ‘‘intrigue and corrup- the United States Embassy in Ukraine. sions—consequential decisions for our
tion,’’ and it would also be, as he put You saw testimony from him. We were Constitution. We talked about the bur-
it, ‘‘the detriment to the State, from not able to cross-examine him. If he is den of proof. I said this before, and I
the prolonged inaction of men whose called or if we get witnesses, we will will say it again. Thirty-one times the
firm and faithful execution of their call the Ambassador, and we will cross- managers said they proved their case.
duty might have exposed them to the examine. Twenty-nine times they said the evi-
persecution of an intemperate or de- LTC Alexander Vindman. You saw dence was overwhelming. Manager
signing majority in the House of Rep- his testimony. He appeared before the NADLER—he didn’t only say it was
resentatives.’’ And that is what has House. We didn’t have the opportunity overwhelming in his view, on page 739
happened here. to cross-examine him. If we call wit- of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, he is
And if you create a system now that nesses, we will, of course, have that very clear. He says not only is it
makes the new normal a half-baked, right to cross-examine him. strong, there is no doubt. That is what
slapdash process in the House—just get Fiona Hill. She is the former senior he said. ‘‘The one thing the House man-
the impeachment done and get it over director for Europe and Russia on the agers think the President counsel got
to the Senate—and then once the National Security Council. She testi- right is quoting me’’—talking about
President is impeached and you have fied for the House. If we have wit- Mr. NADLER, Manager NADLER—‘‘as
the head of the executive branch, the nesses, we have the opportunity to call saying ‘beyond any doubt.’ It is, in-
leader of the free world, having some- her then and cross-examine Fiona Hill. deed, beyond any doubt.’’
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

thing like that hanging over his head, Kurt Volker, former United States Now, of course, we think that they
then we will slow everything down, and Representative for Ukraine Negotia- have not proven their case by any
then we will start doing the investiga- tions. They called him; we did not have stretch of any proper constitutional
tion and just drag it out. That is all the opportunity to cross-examine. If we analysis.
part of what makes this even more po- are calling witnesses—these are wit- In the Clinton investigation, they
litical, especially in an election year. nesses you have heard from—we would talk about witnesses being called, but

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.016 S31JAPT1
S764 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
the three witnesses that were called How many constitutional challenges the Senate shall try the impeachment,
had either testified before the grand will we have in this body because they not merely deliberate about it, not
jury or before the House committee. placed the burden on you that they merely think about it, not merely won-
There weren’t new witnesses. What Mr. would not take themselves in putting der about it. I know you are the great-
Philbin said is correct; that under our their case forward? If we look at our est deliberative body in the world, but
constitutional design, they are sup- constitutional framework and our con- not even you can deliberate in a trial
posed to investigate; you are to delib- stitutional structure, that is not the without witnesses. But Mr. Sekulow
erate. But what they are asking you to way it is supposed to work. would rewrite the Constitution: Your
do is now become the investigative Now, our opposition to this motion is job is not to try the case, he says; your
agency, the investigative body. rather straightforward, as I have said. job is merely to deliberate. That is not
If they needed all this additional evi- We came here ready to try the case on what the Founders had in mind—not by
dence, which they said they don’t the record that they presented, the a long shot.
need—and, by the way, not only did record that the managers told us was Now, Mr. Philbin says none of these
they say it in the RECORD, this is House overwhelming and complete. witnesses would have relevance on arti-
Manager NADLER when he was on CNN Mr. SCHIFF went through every sen- cle II—I guess conceding that they
back on the 15th of this month: ‘‘We tence of the Articles of Impeachment would have relevant evidence under ar-
brought the articles of impeachment. just a few days ago and said: Proved, ticle I. But that is not true either.
Because, despite the fact that we didn’t proved, proved. But the problem is that Imagine what you will see when you
hear from many witnesses we [could] what is proved, proved, proved is not hear from the witnesses who ran the
have heard from, we heard from enough an impeachable offense. You could Office of Management and Budget or
witnesses to prove the case beyond any have witnesses that prove a lot of imagine what you will see when you
doubt at all.’’ things, but if there is not a violation of read the documents from the Office of
The same can be said from Rep- the law, if it doesn’t meet the constitu- Management and Budget. What you
resentative LOFGREN: tional required process, the constitu- will see is what they have covered up.
You know, we have evidence proving the tional required substantive issues of do What you will see is the motive for
case through, for example, at the meeting their complete obstruction of Congress.
these articles—these allegations rise to
when Bolton said it was a drug deal, well, we When you see not the redacted emails,
have fact witnesses. Hill was there, Vindman the level sufficient for a removal of of-
was there, Sondland was there. fice for a duly elected President of the not the fully blacked-out emails that
United States? It doesn’t and espe- they deigned to give in the litigation
So this idea that they haven’t had
cially so—especially so—when we are and Freedom of Information Act, but
witnesses, that is the smoke screen.
in an election year. when you see what is under those
You have heard from a lot of witnesses.
I am not going to take the time— redactions, you will have proof of mo-
The problem with the case, the prob-
your time, which is precious, to go over tive. When you see those documents,
lem with their position is, even with
each and every allegation about wit- you will see just how fallacious these
all of those witnesses, it doesn’t prove
nesses that I can. I could do it. I could nonassertions of executive privilege
up an impeachable offense. The articles
fail. stand here for a long time. I am not are. You will see, in essence, what they
I think it is very dangerous if the going to do that. I am just going to say have covered up. It could not be more
House runs up—which they did—Arti- this: They created the record. Do not relevant to whether their panoply of
cles of Impeachment quickly, so quick- allow them to penalize the country and legal argumentation to justify ‘‘we
ly that they are clamoring for evi- the Constitution because they failed to shall fight all subpoenas’’ is merely a
dence, despite the fact that they put do their job. coverup in a legal window dressing. So
all of this evidence forward. They got With that Mr. Chief Justice, we yield these witnesses and documents are
their wish of an impeachment by our time. critical on both articles.
Christmas. That was the goal. But now The CHIEF JUSTICE. Thank you, Now, you also heard Mr. Philbin
they want you to do the work they counsel. argue—and, again, this is where we ex-
failed to do. The House managers have 30 minutes pected we would be at the end of the
But, as I said, time and time again remaining. proceeding, which is, essentially, they
we heard: You didn’t hear from wit- Mr. Manager SCHIFF. Thank you, proved their case. They proved their
nesses. You didn’t hear from many wit- Mr. Chief Justice, Senators: I want to case. We pretty much all know what
nesses. Mr. SCHIFF modified that a lit- walk through some of the arguments has gone on here. We all understand
tle bit today, a little bit. You heard that you just heard from the Presi- just what this President did. No one
from a lot of witnesses. But if we go dent’s counsel. really disputes that anymore. So what?
down the road of witnesses, this is not The first argument was made by Mr. So what? It is a version of the
a 1-week process. Remember, I talked Philbin. Mr. Philbin began by saying Dershowitz defense. So what? The
about the waving the wand and Ukrain- the House managers assert that you President can do no wrong. The Presi-
ian corruption was gone? You are not can’t have a trial without witnesses, dent is the State. If the President be-
going to have a witness wand here, and he said: ‘‘It’s not that simple.’’ Ac- lieves that corrupt conduct would help
where, OK, you got a week to do this tually, it is. It is pretty simple. It is him get reelected, if he believes shak-
and get it done. There is no way that pretty simple. In every courthouse, in ing down an ally and withholding mili-
would be proper under due process. every State, in every county in the tary aid, if he believes soliciting for-
But, you know, due process is supposed country, where they have trials, they eign interference in our election,
to be for the person accused, and they have witnesses. And I think you heard whether it be from the Ukrainians or
are turning it on its head. They Mr. Philbin tie himself into knots as to the Russians or the Israeli Prime Min-
brought the articles before you. They why this should be the first trial in ister or anyone else in any form it may
are the ones that rushed the case up which witnesses are not necessary. take, so what? He has a God-given
and then held it before you could actu- But, you know, some things are just as right to abuse his power, and there is
ally start proceeding, but they are the simple as they appear. A trial without nothing you can do about it. It is the
ones who passed the articles before witnesses is simply not a trial. You Dershowitz principle of constitutional
Christmas. could call it something else, but it is lawlessness. That is the end-all argu-
You know, we talked a lot about the not a trial. ment for them. You don’t need to hear
court system and the fact that they Now, Mr. Sekulow said something witnesses who will prove the Presi-
were seeking witnesses, and when it very interesting. He said: The House dent’s misconduct because he has a
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

got close to actually having a court investigates, and the Senate delib- right to be as corrupt as he chooses
proceeding, they decided that they erates. Well, he would rewrite our Con- under our Constitution, and there is
didn’t want to have that witness go stitution with that argument because nothing you can do about it. God help
through that proceeding, and they ac- the last time I checked the Constitu- us if that argument succeeds.
tually withdrew the subpoena to move tion, it said that the House shall have Now, they say that these witnesses
the case out. the sole power of impeachment, and already testified, and so you don’t need

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.017 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S765
to hear from anybody. There are wit- have looked at the issue of a Congress’s That is a really hard argument to
nesses who already testified, so the power to enforce subpoenas against make. I credit them for making it with
House doesn’t get to call witnesses in witnesses or documents, the courts a straight face, but that is the char-
the Senate. That would be like a crimi- have said the power to compel compli- acter of it: You should have fought
nal trial in any courthouse in America ance with a subpoena is coequal and co- harder to overcome our stonewalling
where the defendant, if he’s rich and extensive with the power to legislate and obstruction.
powerful enough, can say to the judge: because you can’t do one without the Now, they also say the Chief Justice
Hey, Judge, the prosecution got to other. If we can’t find out whether the cannot decide issues of privilege. No,
have witnesses in the grand jury. They President is breaking the law, vio- the Chief Justice can’t make those de-
don’t get to call anyone here. They had lating the Impoundment Control Act or cisions. You need to let us litigate this
their chance in the grand jury. They any other—whether he is withholding up and down the court system.
called witnesses in the grand jury. aid that we appropriated for an ally— That is a pretty remarkable argu-
They don’t get to call witnesses here. how can we legislate a fix to make sure ment because the Senate rules allow
That is not how it works in any that this never happens again? We the presiding officer to make judg-
courtroom in America, and it is not can’t. If we can’t get answers, we can’t ments and to rule on issues of evidence,
how it should work in this courtroom. legislate. materiality, and privilege. That is per-
Of course, you heard the argument That is a proposition indicated by mitted under your own rules. We don’t
again repeated time and time again: every court in the land. And, of course, need to go up and down the courts. We
The House is saying they are not ready in the context of impeachment, the have got a perfectly good judge right
for trial. Of course, we never said we courts have said that is never more im- here.
weren’t ready for trial. We came here portant—never more important. Now, you heard our proposal yester-
very prepared for trial. I would submit Now, I don’t know why, after saying day that we take a week—just a week—
to you, the President’s team came here he would sue us—and we had to expect to depose the witnesses that we feel are
unprepared for trial, unprepared for the that, like Don McGahn, where we are relevant, that they feel are relevant,
fact that there would be, as we all an- still in court 9 months later. I don’t and that the Justice rules are rel-
ticipated, a daily drip of new disclo- know why he changed his mind, but I evant—just one week. Now, they can
sures that would send them back on suspect it is for the reason that if this say that the Constitution requires
their heels. We came here to try a trial goes forward and he keeps this to them to go to court, but, of course, it
case—prepared to try a case—and, yes, himself, it will be very difficult to ex- doesn’t. There is absolutely no con-
we had, I hope, the not unreasonable plain to the country why he saved it stitutional impediment from these fine
expectation that in trying that case, for the book. When he knew informa- lawyers saying: You know, that is emi-
like in every courtroom in America, we tion of direct relevance and con- nently reasonable. We will allow a neu-
could call witnesses. That is not a lack sequence to a decision that you have to tral party, the Chief Justice of the
of preparation. That is the presence of make about whether the President of United States of America, to rule on
common sense. the United States should be removed
whether a witness is material or imma-
They didn’t try to get Bolton, they from office, it would be very difficult
terial, whether they have been called
argue. Someone said: They didn’t even to explain why that is saved for a book.
Well, I would submit to you, it would for purposes of probative evidence or
try to get Bolton. harassment, and whether you are mak-
Now, of course, we did try to get be equally difficult for you to explain
as it would be for him. But you can ask ing a proper claim of privilege or mere-
Bolton, and what he said when he re-
him that question: Why are you willing ly trying to hide crime or fraud.
fused to show up voluntarily is: If you The concern they have is not that the
subpoena me, I will sue you. I will sue to testify before the Senate but not the
Chief Justice will be unfair, but rather
you. House? And you should ask him that
question. that he will be fair. But do not make
He said basically what Don McGahn
Now, it was said, and it has the char- any mistake about it. Do not let them
told us 9 months ago: I will sue you;
acter of ‘‘you should have fought hard- suggest that there is something con-
good luck with that.
Now, the public argument that was er to overcome our obstruction.’’ The stitutionally impermissible or it would
made by his counsel was that he and House should have fought harder to violate the President’s rights to allow
Dr. Kupperman, out of, you know, just overcome our stonewalling. Shame on the Chief Justice of the United States
due diligence, they just want a court to the House for not fighting harder to to make those decisions in this court,
opine that it is OK for them to come overcome our stonewalling. If only because he is empowered to do so by
forward and testify. As soon as the they had fought harder to overcome your rules and by the Constitution,
court blesses their testimony, they are our stonewalling, maybe they could which gives you the sole power to try
more than willing to come in. They have gotten these witnesses earlier. impeachments. In the sole exercise of
just are going to court to get a court That is a really hard argument to your power to try impeachments, you
opinion saying they can do it. make while they are stonewalling: You can say: We will allow the Chief Jus-
And so, of course, we said to them: If should have tried harder. You should tice to make those decisions.
that is your real motivation, there is a have taken the years that would be Now, Mr. Sekulow said that you have
court about to rule on this very issue necessary to overcome our heard the testimony of 13 witnesses.
of absolute immunity. stonewalling. And I think the impression is meant to
And very shortly thereafter, that And the reason why that argument is be given, if not to you—we know other-
court did. That was the court—Judge in such bad faith? As I pointed out to wise—maybe the people watching at
Jackson in the McGahn case—and the you yesterday, while they are in this home, that they must have been in be-
judge said that his argument about ab- body arguing the House was derelict, tween errands while watching the Sen-
solute immunity—which, yes, Presi- slapdash, they should have fought ate trial and missed where those 13 wit-
dents have always dreamed about and harder and longer and endlessly to nesses came before the Senate and tes-
asserted but which has never succeeded overcome our stonewalling—while they tified.
in any court in the land—it was ridi- are making that argument to you that But of course, you heard no live tes-
culed in the case of Harriet Miers. It the House should have fought up and timony in this body. There wasn’t any
was made short shrift in the case of down the courts from the district to live testimony before this body, and I
Don McGahn, where the judge said: No, the court of appeals to the Supreme don’t recall any of you in that super-
we don’t have Kings here. In the 250 Court and back again—they are in the secret basement bunker they have been
years of jurisprudence, there is not a courthouse arguing the opposite. They talking about. Now, I will admit, there
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

single case to support the proposition are in the courthouse saying: Judge, were 100 Members eligible to be there.
that the President can simply say that they are trying to enforce a subpoena So maybe I missed one of you, but I
my advisers are absolutely immune on Don McGahn. You need to throw it don’t think you were there for the live
from process. out. They don’t have the jurisdiction. testimony in the House.
And, of course, in every other non- This is nonjusticiable. You can’t hear Now, Mr. Sekulow says the President
impeachment context where the courts this case. was deprived of his right of calling

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.018 S31JAPT1
S766 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
these witnesses himself and cross-ex- The only constraining principle—and Senators, there is a storm blowing
amining these witnesses in the House, I think that one of the Senators asked through this Capitol. Its winds are
but that is not true either because the yesterday: What is the limiting prin- strong, and they move us in uncertain
President was eligible to call witnesses ciple in the Dershowitz argument? If a and dangerous directions.
in his defense in the Judiciary Com- President can corruptly seek foreign Jefferson once said: ‘‘I consider trial
mittee and chose not to do so. If the interference in his election because he by jury as the only anchor . . . yet
President’s counsel felt that, you believes that his election is in the na- imagined by man, by which a govern-
know, Bill Taylor says that he spoke tional interest, then, you cannot im- ment can be held to the principles of
with Sondland right after this phone peach him for it, no matter how dam- its constitution’’—the only anchor yet
call with the President, and Sondland aging it may be to our national secu- imagined by man by which a govern-
talked about how the military aid was rity. What is the limiting principle? ment can be held to the principles of
conditioned on these investigations, And I suppose the limiting principle its constitution. I would submit to you,
the President wanted Zelensky in a is only this: It only requires the Presi- remove that anchor, and we are adrift,
public box, and I would really like to dent to believe that his reelection is in but if we hold true, if we have faith
cross-examine that West Point grad the national interest. Well, it would re- that the ship of state can survive the
and Vietnam vet because I don’t be- quire an extraordinary level of self-re- truth, this storm shall pass.
lieve him, you know, they could have flection and insight for a President of
I yield back.
called Bill Taylor in the Judiciary the United States to conclude that his
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Thank you,
Committee and cross-examined him, or own reelection was not in the national
Mr. Manager.
they could have called Mick Mulvaney interest—not unprecedented, mind you.
I think that was the decision that LBJ Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice.
and put him under oath and let him The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority
contradict what we know John Bolton ultimately arrived at, but I would not
want to consider that a meaningful leader is recognized.
would say. But of course, they didn’t do Mr. MCCONNELL. I suggest the ab-
that. No, they said merely: Just get it limitation on Presidential power, and
neither should you. sence of a quorum.
over with in the House. For all there, it The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will
Finally, counsel expressed some
was too quick, too slapdash. Get it over call the roll.
indignance—indignance—that we
with in the House, because, as the The senior assistant legislative clerk
should suggest that it is not just the
President said, when it comes to the Senate—it is not just the President, proceeded to call the roll.
Senate, we will have a real trial where rather, who is on trial here but it is Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
he gets to call witnesses. But they have also the Senate; how dare the House I ask unanimous consent that the order
changed their tune because now they managers suggest that your decision for the quorum call be rescinded.
know what they have really known all should reflect on this body. That is just The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec-
along; which is, that those witnesses such a calumny. tion, it is so ordered.
would deeply incriminate this Presi- Well, let me read you a statement Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
dent. made by one of your colleagues. This is the Democratic leader and I have had
So, instead, they have fallen back on what former U.S. Senator John War- an opportunity to have a discussion,
the argument that if we are going to go ner, a Republican of Virginia, had to and it leads to the following: We will
down the road to having a real trial, if say: now cast a vote on the witness ques-
we are going to go down the road in As conscientious citizens from all walks of tion.
having a real trial, we, the President’s life are trying their best to understand the Once that vote is complete, I would
lawyers, are going to make you pay. complex impeachment issues now being de-
ask unanimous consent that the Sen-
And the form of this argument is: We liberated in the U.S. Senate, the rules of evi-
dence are central to the matter. Should the ate stand in recess subject to the call
are going to call every witness under of the Chair.
Senate allow additional sworn testimony
the Sun. We are going to call every The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec-
from fact witnesses with firsthand knowl-
witness that testified before the House. edge and include relevant documents? tion, it is so ordered.
We are going to call every witness that As a lifelong Republican and a retired The question is, Shall it be in order
we can think of that would help smear member of the U.S. Senate, who once served
to consider and debate under the im-
the Bidens. We are going to keep you as a juror in a Presidential impeachment
trial, I am mindful of the difficult respon- peachment rules any motion to sub-
here until kingdom come. That is es- poena witnesses or documents?
sibilities those currently serving now shoul-
sentially the argument that they are The yeas and nays are required under
der. I believe, as I am sure you do, that not
making when Mr. Sekulow says: We are only is the President on trial, but in many S. Res. 483.
going to bring in Fiona Hill, and we are ways, so is the Senate itself. As such, I am The clerk will call the roll.
going to bring in Tim Morrison, and we strongly supportive of the efforts of my
The senior assistant legislative clerk
are going to bring in this witness and former Republican Senate colleagues who
are considering that the Senate accept the called the roll.
bring in that witness.
introduction of additional evidence that they The result was announced—yeas 49,
You have the sole power to try this
deem relevant. nays 51, as follows:
case. You do not have to allow the Not long ago Senators of both major par-
President’s lawyers to abuse your time [Rollcall Vote No. 27]
ties always worked to accommodate fellow
or this process. You have the power to YEAS—49
colleagues with differing points of view to
decide: No, we gave each side 24 hours arrive at outcomes that would best serve the Baldwin Hassan Rosen
to make their arguments. We are going nation’s interests. If witnesses are sup- Bennet Heinrich Sanders
Blumenthal Hirono Schatz
to give each side a shared week to call pressed in this trial and a majority of Ameri-
Booker Jones Schumer
their witnesses. You have that power. cans are left believing the trial was a sham, Brown Kaine Shaheen
I can only imagine the lasting damage done Cantwell King
If you didn’t, you couldn’t have con- Sinema
to the Senate, and to our fragile national Cardin Klobuchar
stricted the amount of time for our ar- consensus. The Senate embraces its legacy Carper Leahy
Smith
gument. You can likewise determine Stabenow
and delivers for the American people by Casey Manchin
Tester
how much time should be taken with avoiding the risk. Collins Markey
Udall
witness testimony. Throughout the long life of our nation, fed- Coons Menendez
Cortez Masto Van Hollen
eral and state judicial systems have largely Merkley
Now, Mr. Sekulow ended his argu- Duckworth Murphy Warner
ment against witnesses with where Mr. supported the judicial norms of evidence, Durbin Murray Warren
Philbin essentially began. It all comes witnesses and relevant documents. I respect- Feinstein Peters Whitehouse
fully urge the Senate to be guided by the Gillibrand Reed Wyden
back to the Dershowitz principle. What
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

rules of evidence and follow our nation’s ju- Harris Romney


is the point of witnesses if the Presi- dicial norms, precedents and institutions to
dent can do whatever he wants under uphold the Constitution and the rule of law NAYS—51
article II? What is the point of calling by welcoming relevant witnesses and docu- Alexander Braun Cotton
ments as part of this impeachment trial. Barrasso Burr Cramer
witnesses? What is the point of having
Blackburn Capito Crapo
a trial if the President can do whatever That is your colleague, former Sen- Blunt Cassidy Cruz
he wants under article II? ator John Warner. Boozman Cornyn Daines

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.020 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S767
Enzi Lankford Rounds The CHIEF JUSTICE. I am, Mr. Durbin Manchin Shaheen
Ernst Lee Rubio Feinstein Markey Sinema
Fischer Loeffler Sasse
Leader. The one concerned a motion to Gillibrand Menendez Smith
Gardner McConnell Scott (FL) adjourn. The other concerned a motion Harris Merkley Stabenow
Graham McSally Scott (SC) to close deliberations. I do not regard Hassan Murphy Tester
Grassley Moran Shelby those isolated episodes 150 years ago as Heinrich Murray Udall
Hawley Murkowski Sullivan Hirono Peters Van Hollen
Hoeven Paul Thune sufficient to support a general author- Jones Reed Warner
Hyde-Smith Perdue Tillis ity to break ties. Kaine Rosen
Warren
Inhofe Portman Toomey If the Members of this body, elected King Sanders
Whitehouse
Johnson Risch Wicker Klobuchar Schatz
Kennedy Roberts Young by the people and accountable to them, Leahy Schumer
Wyden
divide equally on a motion, the normal
The motion was rejected. The motion to table is agreed to; the
rule is that the motion fails.
RECESS SUBJECT TO THE CALL OF THE CHAIR amendment is tabled.
I think it would be inappropriate for
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Under the pre- me, an unelected official from a dif- The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Demo-
vious order, the Senate stands in recess ferent branch of government, to assert cratic leader is recognized.
subject to the call of the Chair. the power to change that result so that AMENDMENT NO. 1296
Thereupon, at 5:42 p.m., the Senate,
the motion would succeed. Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I
sitting as a Court of Impeachment, re-
AMENDMENT NO. 1295 send an amendment to the desk to sub-
cessed until 7:13 p.m.; whereupon the
Senate reassembled when called to (Purpose: To subpoena certain rel- poena John R. Bolton, and I ask that it
order by the CHIEF JUSTICE. evant witnesses and documents.) be read.
PROVIDING FOR RELATED PROCEDURES CON- Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will
CERNING THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT send an amendment to the desk to sub- read the amendment.
AGAINST DONALD JOHN TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF poena Mulvaney, Bolton, Duffey, Blair, The senior assistant legislative clerk
THE UNITED STATES and the White House, OMB, DOD, and read as follows:
Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice, State Department documents, and I
I send a resolution to the desk, and I The Senator from New York [Mr. SCHUMER]
ask that it be read. proposes an amendment numbered 1296.
ask the clerk to report. The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will
Mr. CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will read the amendment. The amendment is as follows:
report the resolution by title. The senior assistant legislative clerk (Purpose: To subpoena John Robert Bolton)
The legislative clerk read as follows: read as follows: At the appropriate place in the resolving
A resolution (S. Res. 488) to provide for re-
The Senator from New York [Mr. SCHUMER] clause, insert the following:
lated procedures concerning the articles of
impeachment against Donald John Trump,
proposes an amendment numbered 1295. SEC. lll. Notwithstanding any other
President of the United States. Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I provision of this resolution, pursuant to
Resolved, That the record in this case shall ask unanimous consent that the rules V and VI of the Rules of Procedure and
be closed, and no motion with respect to re- Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Im-
amendment be considered as read. peachment Trials, the Chief Justice of the
opening the record shall be in order for the The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec-
duration of these proceedings. United States, through the Secretary of the
The Senate shall proceed to final argu- tion, it is so ordered. Senate, shall issue a subpoena for the taking
ments as provided in the impeachment rules, (The amendment is printed in today’s of testimony of John Robert Bolton, and the
waiving the two person rule contained in RECORD under ‘‘Text of Amendments.’’) Sergeant at Arms is authorized to utilize the
Rule XXII of the Rules of Procedure and The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority services of the Deputy Sergeant at Arms or
Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Im- leader is recognized. any other employee of the Senate in serving
peachment Trials. Such arguments shall the subpoena authorized to be issued by this
MOTION TO TABLE
begin at 11:00 am on Monday, February 3, section.
2020, and not exceed four hours, and be equal- Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice, MOTION TO TABLE
ly divided between the House and the Presi- I move to table the amendment, and I
dent to be used as under the Rules of Im- ask for the yeas and nays. The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority
peachment. The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there a suffi- leader is recognized.
At the conclusion of the final arguments cient second? Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
by the House and the President, the court of I move to table the amendment, and I
impeachment shall stand adjourned until 4:00
There appears to be a sufficient sec-
ond. ask for the yeas and nays.
pm on Wednesday, February 5, 2020, at which
time the Senate, without intervening action The clerk will call the roll. The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there a suffi-
or debate shall vote on the Articles of Im- The legislative clerk called the roll. cient second?
peachment. The CHIEF JUSTICE. Are there any There appears to be a sufficient sec-
Thereupon, the Senate, sitting as a other Senators in the Chamber wishing ond.
Court of Impeachment, proceeded to to vote or change their vote? The clerk will call the roll.
consider the resolution. The result was announced—yeas 53, The senior assistant legislative clerk
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority nays 47, as follows: called the roll.
leader. [Rollcall Vote No. 28] The CHIEF JUSTICE. Are there any
Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice, YEAS—53 other Senators in the Chamber desiring
I ask unanimous consent that the to vote or change his or her vote?
Alexander Fischer Perdue
Democratic leader or designee be al- Barrasso Gardner Portman The result was announced—yeas 51,
lowed to offer up four amendments to Blackburn Graham Risch
nays 49, as follows:
the resolution; further, that I be recog- Blunt Grassley Roberts
Boozman Hawley Romney [Rollcall Vote No. 29]
nized to make a motion to table the Braun Hoeven Rounds
amendment after it has been reported Burr Hyde-Smith YEAS—51
Rubio
with no intervening action or debate. Capito Inhofe Sasse Alexander Fischer Paul
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec- Cassidy Johnson
Scott (FL) Barrasso Gardner Perdue
Collins Kennedy Blackburn Graham Portman
tion, it is so ordered. Cornyn Lankford
Scott (SC)
Blunt Grassley Risch
The Democratic leader is recognized. Cotton Lee
Shelby
Boozman Hawley Roberts
Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I Cramer Loeffler Sullivan
Braun Hoeven Rounds
have a parliamentary inquiry. Crapo McConnell Thune
Burr Hyde-Smith Rubio
Cruz McSally Tillis
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Demo- Toomey
Capito Inhofe Sasse
Daines Moran Cassidy Johnson Scott (FL)
cratic leader will state the inquiry.
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

Enzi Murkowski Wicker Cornyn Kennedy Scott (SC)


Mr. SCHUMER. Is the Chief Justice Ernst Paul Young Cotton Lankford Shelby
aware that in the impeachment trial of Cramer Lee Sullivan
NAYS—47
President Johnson, Chief Justice Crapo Loeffler Thune
Chase, as Presiding Officer, cast tie- Baldwin Brown Casey Cruz McConnell Tillis
Bennet Cantwell Coons Daines McSally Toomey
breaking votes on both March 31 and Blumenthal Cardin Cortez Masto Enzi Moran Wicker
April 2, 1868? Booker Carper Duckworth Ernst Murkowski Young

VerDate Sep 11 2014 02:20 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.003 S31JAPT1
S768 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
NAYS—49 counsel, and by counsel for the President. MOTION TO TABLE
Baldwin Hassan Rosen The witness shall be examined by not more Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
Bennet Heinrich Sanders than 2 persons each on behalf of the Man- I move to table the amendment, and I
Blumenthal Hirono Schatz agers and counsel for the President. The wit- ask for the yeas and nays.
Booker Jones Schumer ness may be accompanies by counsel. The
Brown Kaine The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there a suffi-
Shaheen scope of the examination by the Managers
Cantwell King Sinema and counsel for both parties shall be limited cient second?
Cardin Klobuchar Smith to subject matters reflected in the Senate There is a sufficient second.
Carper Leahy Stabenow The clerk will call the roll.
Casey Manchin record. The party taking a deposition shall
Collins Markey
Tester present to the other party, not less than 18 The legislative clerk called the roll.
Coons Menendez
Udall
hours in advance of the deposition, copies of The result was announced—yeas 51,
Cortez Masto Van Hollen nays 49, as follows:
Merkley all exhibits which the deposing party intends
Duckworth Murphy Warner
Warren to enter into the deposition. No exhibits out- [Rollcall Vote No. 30]
Durbin Murray
Whitehouse side of the Senate record shall be employed, YEAS—51
Feinstein Peters
Gillibrand Reed Wyden except for articles and materials in the
Alexander Fischer Paul
Harris Romney press, including electronic media. Any party Barrasso Gardner Perdue
may interrogate the witness as if the witness Blackburn Graham Portman
The motion to table is agreed to; the were declared adverse. Blunt Grassley Risch
amendment is tabled. Boozman Hawley Roberts
The deposition shall be videotaped and a
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Demo- Braun Hoeven Rounds
transcript of the proceeding shall be made. Burr Hyde-Smith Rubio
cratic leader is recognized. The deposition shall be conducted in private. Capito Inhofe Sasse
AMENDMENT NO. 1297 No person shall be admitted to the deposi- Cassidy Johnson Scott (FL)
Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I tion except for the following: The witness, Cornyn Kennedy Scott (SC)
send an amendment to the desk to sub- counsel for the witness, the Managers on the Cotton Lankford Shelby
part of the House of Representatives, counsel Cramer Lee Sullivan
poena John R. Bolton; providing fur- Crapo Loeffler Thune
ther that there be 1 day for a deposi- for the Managers, counsel for the President,
Cruz McConnell Tillis
and the Chief Justice; further, such persons Daines McSally Toomey
tion, presided over by the Chief Jus- whose presence is required to make and pre- Enzi Moran Wicker
tice, and 1 day for live testimony be- serve a record of the proceeding in Ernst Murkowski Young
fore the Senate, both of which must videotaped and transcript forms, and staff
occur within 5 days of the adoption of NAYS—49
members to the Chief Justice whose presence
the underlying resolution, and I ask is required to assist the Chief Justice in pre- Baldwin Hassan Rosen
Bennet Heinrich Sanders
that it be read. siding over the deposition, or for other pur-
Blumenthal Hirono Schatz
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will poses, as determined by the Chief Justice. Booker Jones Schumer
report. All persons present must maintain the con- Brown Kaine Shaheen
The senior assistant legislative clerk fidentiality of the proceeding. Cantwell King Sinema
Cardin Klobuchar Smith
read as follows: The Chief Justice at the deposition shall
Carper Leahy Stabenow
The Senator from New York [Mr. SCHUMER] file the videotaped and transcribed records of Casey Manchin
the deposition with the Secretary of the Sen- Tester
proposes an amendment numbered 1297. Collins Markey
ate, who shall maintain them as confidential Udall
Coons Menendez
Mr. SCHUMER. Mr. Chief Justice, I proceedings of the Senate. The Sergeant at Cortez Masto Merkley
Van Hollen
ask unanimous consent that the Duckworth Murphy Warner
Arms is authorized to make available for re-
Durbin Murray Warren
amendment be considered as read. view at secure locations, any of the video- Whitehouse
Feinstein Peters
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec- tapes or transcribed deposition records to
Gillibrand Reed Wyden
tion, it is so ordered. Members of the Senate, one designated staff Harris Romney
The amendment is as follows: member per Senator, and the Chief Justice.
The Senate may direct the Secretary of the The motion to table is agreed to; the
(Purpose: To subpoena John Robert Bolton)
Senate to distribute such materials, and to amendment is tabled.
At the appropriate place in the matter fol- use whichever means of dissemination, in- The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator
lowing the resolving clause, insert the fol- cluding printing as Senate documents, print- from Maryland.
lowing: ing in the Congressional Record, photo- and
Notwithstanding any other provision of AMENDMENT NO. 1298
video- duplication, and electronic dissemina- Mr. VAN HOLLEN. Mr. Chief Justice,
this resolution, pursuant to rules V and VI of
tion, he determines to be appropriate to ac-
the Rules of Procedure and Practice in the
complish any distribution of the videotaped
I send an amendment to the desk to
Senate When Sitting on Impeachment have the Chief Justice rule on motions
or transcribed deposition records that he is
Trials, the Chief Justice of the United to subpoena witnesses and documents
directed to make pursuant to this paragraph.
States, through the Secretary of the Senate, and to rule on any assertion of privi-
shall issue a subpoena for the taking of testi- The deposition authorized by this resolu-
tion shall be deemed to be proceedings before lege, and I ask that it be read.
mony on oral deposition and subsequent tes-
timony before the Senate of John Robert the Senate for purposes of rule XXIX of the The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will
Bolton, and the Sergeant at Arms is author- Standing Rules of the Senate, sections 101, report.
ized to utilize the services of the Deputy Ser- 102, and 104 of the Revised Statutes (2 U.S.C. The senior assistant legislative clerk
geant at Arms or any other employee of the 191, 192, and 194), sections 703, 705, and 707 of read as follows:
Senate in serving the subpoena authorized to the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 (2 The Senator from Maryland [Mr. VAN HOL-
be issued by this paragraph. U.S.C. 288b, 288d, and 288f), sections 6002 and LEN] proposes an amendment numbered 1298.
The deposition authorized by this resolu- 6005 of title 18, United States Code, and sec- At the appropriate place in the matter fol-
tion shall be taken before, and presided over tion 1365 of title 28, United States Code. The lowing the resolving clause, insert the fol-
by, the Chief Justice of the United States, Secretary of the Senate shall arrange for lowing:
who shall administer to the witness the oath stenographic assistance, including Notwithstanding any other provision of
prescribed by rule XXV of the Rules of Pro- videotaping, to record the depositions as pro- this resolution, the Presiding Officer shall
cedure and Practice in the Senate When Sit- vided in section 205. Such expenses as may be issue a subpoena for any witness or any doc-
ting on Impeachment Trials. The Chief Jus- necessary shall be paid from the ‘‘Appropria- ument that a Senator or a party moves to
tice shall have authority to rule, as an ini- tion Account—Miscellaneous Items’’ in the subpoena if the Presiding Officer determines
tial matter, upon any question arising out of contingent fund of the Senate upon vouchers that the witness or document is likely to
the deposition. All objections to a question approved by the Secretary. have probative evidence relevant to either
shall be noted by the Chief Justice upon the The deposition authorized by this resolu- article of impeachment before the Senate,
record of the deposition but the examination tion may be conducted for a period of time and, consistent with the authority of the
shall proceed, and the witness shall answer not to exceed 1 day. The period of time for Presiding Officer to rule on all questions of
such question. The witness may refuse to an- the subsequent testimony before the Senate evidence, shall rule on any assertion of privi-
swer a question only when necessary to pre- authorized by this resolution shall not ex- lege.
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

serve a legally recognized privilege, or con- ceed 1 day. The deposition and the subse- The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority
stitutional right, and must identify such quent testimony before the Senate shall both leader is recognized.
privilege cited if refusing to answer a ques- be completed not later than 5 days after the MOTION TO TABLE
tion. date on which this resolution is adopted.
Examination of the witness at a deposition Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
shall be conducted by the Managers on the The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority I move to table the amendment, and I
part of the House of Representatives or their leader is recognized. ask for the yeas and nays.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:42 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.005 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S769
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there a suffi- Harris Menendez Sinema ly divided between the House and the Presi-
Hassan Merkley Smith dent to be used as under the Rules of Im-
cient second? Heinrich Murphy Stabenow
There is a sufficient second. peachment.
Hirono Murray Tester
Jones Peters At the conclusion of the final arguments
The clerk will call the roll. Udall
by the House and the President, the court of
Kaine Reed Van Hollen
The senior assistant legislative clerk King Rosen impeachment shall stand adjourned until 4:00
Warner
called the roll. Klobuchar Sanders pm on Wednesday, February 5, 2020, at which
Warren
The result was announced—yeas 53, Leahy Schatz
Whitehouse time the Senate, without intervening action
nays 47, as follows: Manchin Schumer or debate shall vote on the Articles of Im-
Wyden
Markey Shaheen
[Rollcall Vote No. 31] peachment.
The resolution (S. Res. 488) was f
YEAS—53
agreed to.
Alexander Fischer Perdue
(The resolution is printed in today’s AMENDMENTS SUBMITTED AND
Barrasso Gardner Portman PROPOSED
Blackburn Graham Risch RECORD under ‘‘Submitted Resolu-
Blunt Grassley Roberts tions.’’) SA 1295. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
Boozman Hawley Romney amendment to the resolution S. Res. 488, to
UNANIMOUS CONSENT AGREEMENT—PRINTING OF
Braun Hoeven Rounds provide for related procedures concerning
Burr Hyde-Smith STATEMENTS IN THE RECORD AND PRINTING
Rubio
OF SENATE DOCUMENT OF IMPEACHMENT the articles of impeachment against Donald
Capito Inhofe Sasse
Cassidy Johnson PROCEEDINGS John Trump, President of the United States.
Scott (FL) SA 1296. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
Collins Kennedy The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority
Scott (SC) amendment to the resolution S. Res. 488,
Cornyn Lankford
Cotton Lee
Shelby leader is recognized. supra.
Cramer Loeffler Sullivan Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice, SA 1297. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
Crapo McConnell Thune
Tillis
I ask unanimous consent that the Sec- amendment to the resolution S. Res. 488,
Cruz McSally
Daines Moran Toomey retary be authorized to include state- supra.
Enzi Murkowski Wicker ments of Senators explaining their SA 1298. Mr. VAN HOLLEN proposed an
Ernst Paul Young votes, either given or submitted during amendment to the resolution S. Res. 488,
supra.
NAYS—47 the legislative sessions of the Senate
on Monday, February 3; Tuesday, Feb- f
Baldwin Hassan Rosen
Bennet Heinrich Sanders ruary 4; and Wednesday, February 5; TEXT OF AMENDMENTS
Blumenthal Hirono Schatz along with the full record of the Sen-
Booker Jones SA 1295. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
Schumer ate’s proceedings and the filings by the
Brown Kaine Shaheen amendment to the resolution S. Res.
Cantwell King parties in a Senate document printed
Sinema 488, to provide for related procedures
Cardin Klobuchar Smith
under the supervision of the Secretary
concerning the articles of impeach-
Carper Leahy Stabenow of the Senate that will complete the
Casey Manchin ment against Donald John Trump,
Tester documentation of the Senate’s han-
Coons Markey
Udall President of the United States; as fol-
Cortez Masto Menendez dling of these impeachment pro-
Van Hollen lows:
Duckworth Merkley ceedings.
Durbin Murphy Warner At the appropriate place in the matter fol-
Warren The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec-
Feinstein Murray lowing the resolving clause, insert the fol-
Gillibrand Peters Whitehouse tion, it is so ordered.
lowing:
Wyden
Harris Reed f SEC. lllll. Notwithstanding any other
The motion to table is agreed to; the SUBMISSION OF CONCURRENT AND provision of this resolution, pursuant to
amendment is tabled. rules V and VI of the Rules of Procedure and
SENATE RESOLUTIONS Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Im-
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question
occurs on the adoption of S. Res. 488. The following concurrent resolutions peachment Trials—
and Senate resolutions were read, and (1) the Chief Justice of the United States,
Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice, through the Secretary of the Senate, shall
I ask for the yeas and nays. referred (or acted upon), as indicated:
issue a subpoena—
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there a suffi- By Mr. MCCONNELL:
(A) for the taking of testimony of—
cient second? S. Res. 488. A resolution to provide for re-
(i) John Robert Bolton;
lated procedures concerning the articles of
There is a sufficient second. impeachment against Donald John Trump,
(ii) John Michael ‘‘Mick’’ Mulvaney;
The clerk will call the roll. (iii) Michael P. Duffey; and
President of the United States; considered
The legislative clerk called the roll. (iv) Robert B. Blair;
and agreed to.
(B) to the Acting Chief of Staff of the
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Are there any f White House commanding him to produce,
other Senators in the Chamber desiring for the time period from January 1, 2019, to
to vote or change his or her vote? SUBMITTED RESOLUTIONS the present, all documents, communications,
The result was announced—yeas 53, and other records within the possession, cus-
nays 47, as follows: tody, or control of the White House, includ-
[Rollcall Vote No. 32] SENATE RESOLUTION 488—TO PRO- ing the National Security Council, referring
VIDE FOR RELATED PROCE- or relating to—
YEAS—53 (i) all meetings and calls between Presi-
DURES CONCERNING THE ARTI-
Alexander Fischer Perdue dent Trump and the President of Ukraine,
Barrasso Gardner Portman
CLES OF IMPEACHMENT
including documents, communications, and
Blackburn Graham Risch AGAINST DONALD JOHN TRUMP,
other records related to the scheduling of,
Blunt Grassley Roberts PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED preparation for, and follow-up from the
Boozman Hawley Romney
Braun Hoeven
STATES President’s April 21 and July 25, 2019 tele-
Rounds
Burr Hyde-Smith Rubio Mr. MCCONNELL submitted the fol- phone calls, as well as the President’s Sep-
Capito Inhofe Sasse lowing resolution; which was consid- tember 25, 2019 meeting with the President of
Cassidy Johnson Ukraine in New York;
Scott (FL) ered and agreed to:
Collins Kennedy (ii) all investigations, inquiries, or other
Scott (SC)
Cornyn Lankford S. RES. 488
Shelby probes related to Ukraine, including any
Cotton Lee
Cramer Loeffler Sullivan Resolved, That the record in this case shall that relate in any way to—
Crapo McConnell Thune be closed, and no motion with respect to re- (I) former Vice President Joseph Biden;
Cruz McSally Tillis opening the record shall be in order for the (II) Hunter Biden and any of his associates;
Daines Moran Toomey duration of these proceedings. (III) Burisma Holdings Limited (also
Enzi Murkowski Wicker The Senate shall proceed to final argu- known as ‘‘Burisma’’);
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

Ernst Paul Young ments as provided in the impeachment rules, (IV) interference or involvement by
NAYS—47 waiving the two person rule contained in Ukraine in the 2016 United States election;
Rule XXII of the Rules of Procedure and (V) the Democratic National Committee;
Baldwin Cantwell Cortez Masto
Bennet Cardin Duckworth Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Im- or
Blumenthal Carper Durbin peachment Trials. Such arguments shall (VI) CrowdStrike;
Booker Casey Feinstein begin at 11:00 am on Monday, February 3, (iii) the actual or potential suspension,
Brown Coons Gillibrand 2020, and not exceed four hours, and be equal- withholding, delaying, freezing, or releasing

VerDate Sep 11 2014 01:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\G31JA6.032 S31JAPT1
S770 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
of United States foreign assistance, military quest for documents from the House Perma- freezing, or releasing of United States for-
assistance, or security assistance of any kind nent Select Committee on Intelligence, the eign assistance, military assistance, or secu-
to Ukraine, including but not limited to the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, rity assistance to Ukraine, including all
Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative and the House Committee on Foreign Af- meetings, calls, or other engagements with
(USAI) and Foreign Military Financing fairs, including, but not limited to, docu- Ukrainian officials regarding potential or ac-
(FMF); ments collected that pertain to the hold on tual suspensions, holds, or delays in United
(iv) all documents, communications, notes, military and other security assistance to States assistance to Ukraine;
and other records created or received by Act- Ukraine, the scheduling of a White House (ii) communications, opinions, advice,
ing Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, then-Na- meeting for the president of Ukraine, and counsel, approvals, or concurrences provided
tional Security Advisor John R. Bolton, Sen- any requests for investigations by Ukraine; by any employee in the Office of Manage-
ior Advisor to the Chief of Staff Robert B. (viii) the complaint submitted by a whis- ment and Budget regarding the actual or po-
Blair, and other White House officials relat- tleblower within the Intelligence Commu- tential suspension, withholding, delaying,
ing to efforts to— nity on or around August 12, 2019, to the In- freezing, or releasing of security assistance
(I) solicit, request, demand, induce, per- spector General of the Intelligence Commu- to Ukraine including legality under the Im-
suade, or coerce Ukraine to conduct or an- nity; poundment Control Act;
nounce investigations; (ix) all meetings or calls, including re- (iii) Associate Director Michael Duffey
(II) offer, schedule, cancel, or withhold a quests for or records of meetings or tele- taking over duties related to apportionments
White House meeting for Ukraine’s presi- phone calls, scheduling items, calendar en- of USAI or FMF from Deputy Associate Di-
dent; or tries, White House visitor records, and email rector Mark Sandy or any other Office of
(III) hold and then release military and or text messages using personal or work-re- Management and Budget employee;
other security assistance to Ukraine; lated devices between or among— (iv) all meetings related to the security as-
(v) meetings at or involving the White (I) current or former White House officials sistance to Ukraine including but not lim-
House that relate to Ukraine, including but or employees, including but not limited to ited to interagency meetings on July 18, 2019,
not limited to— President Trump; and July 23, 2019, July 26, 2019, and July 31, 2019,
(I) President Zelensky’s inauguration on (II) Rudolph W. Giuliani, Ambassador including any directions provided to staff
May 20, 2019, in Kiev, Ukraine, including but Sondland, Victoria Toensing, or Joseph participating in those meetings and any
not limited to President Trump’s decision diGenova; and readouts from those meetings;
not to attend, to ask Vice President Pence to (x) former United States Ambassador to (v) the decision announced on or about
lead the delegation, directing Vice President Ukraine Marie ‘‘Masha’’ Yovanovitch, in- September 11, 2019, to release appropriated
Pence not to attend, and the subsequent de- cluding but not limited to the decision to foreign assistance, military assistance, or se-
cision about the composition of the delega- end her tour or recall her from the United curity assistance to Ukraine, including but
tion of the United States; States Embassy in Kiev; not limited to any notes, memoranda, docu-
(II) a meeting at the White House on or (C) to the Acting Director of the Office of mentation or correspondence related to the
around May 23, 2019, involving, among oth- Management and Budget commanding him decision;
ers, President Trump, then-Special Rep- to produce, for the time period from January (vi) all draft and final versions of talking
resentative for Ukraine Negotiations Ambas- 1, 2019, to the present, all documents, com- points related to the withholding or release
sador Kurt Volker, then-Energy Secretary munications, and other records within the of foreign assistance, military assistance, or
Rick Perry, and United States Ambassador possession, custody, or control of the Office security assistance to Ukraine, including
to the European Union Gordon Sondland, as of Management and Budget, referring or re- communications with the Department of De-
well as any private meetings or conversa- lating to— fense related to concerns about the accuracy
tions with those individuals before or after (i) the actual or potential suspension, of the talking points; and
the larger meeting; withholding, delaying, freezing, or releasing (vii) all meetings and calls between Presi-
(III) meetings at the White House on or of United States foreign assistance, military dent Trump and the President of Ukraine,
about July 10, 2019, involving Ukrainian offi- assistance, or security assistance of any kind including documents, communications, and
cials Andriy Yermak and Oleksander to Ukraine, including but not limited to the other records related to the scheduling of,
Danylyuk and United States Government of- Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (re- preparation for, and follow-up from the
ficials, including, but not limited to, then- ferred to in this section as ‘‘USAI’’) and For- President’s April 21 and July 25, 2019, tele-
National Security Advisor John Bolton, Sec- eign Military Financing (referred to in this phone calls, as well as the President’s Sep-
retary Perry, Ambassador Volker, and Am- section as ‘‘FMF’’), including but not limited tember 25, 2019, meeting with the President
bassador Sondland, to include at least a to— of Ukraine in New York;
meeting in Ambassador Bolton’s office and a (I) communications among, between, or re- (D) to the Secretary of State commanding
subsequent meeting in the Ward Room; ferring to Director Michael John ‘‘Mick’’ him to produce, for the time period from
(IV) a meeting at the White House on or Mulvaney, Assistant to the President Robert January 1, 2019, to the present, all docu-
around August 30, 2019, involving President Blair, Acting Director Russell Vought, Asso- ments, communications, and other records
Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, ciate Director Michael Duffey, or any other within the possession, custody, or control of
and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper; Office of Management and Budget employee; the Department of State, referring or relat-
(V) a planned meeting, later cancelled, in (II) communications related to requests by ing to—
Warsaw, Poland, on or around September 1, President Trump for information about (i) all meetings and calls between Presi-
2019 between President Trump and President Ukraine security or military assistance and dent Trump and the President of Ukraine,
Zelensky, and subsequently attended by Vice responses to those requests; including documents, communications, and
President Pence; and (III) communications related to concerns other records related to the scheduling of,
(VI) a meeting at the White House on or raised by any Office of Management and preparation for, and follow-up from the
around September 11, 2019, involving Presi- Budget employee related to the legality of President’s April 21 and July 25, 2019 tele-
dent Trump, Vice President Pence, and Mr. any hold on foreign assistance, military as- phone calls, as well as the President’s Sep-
Mulvaney concerning the lifting of the hold sistance, or security assistance to Ukraine; tember 25, 2019 meeting with the President of
on security assistance for Ukraine; (IV) communications sent to the Depart- Ukraine in New York;
(vi) meetings, telephone calls or conversa- ment of State regarding a hold or block on (ii) the actual or potential suspension,
tions related to any occasions in which Na- congressional notifications regarding the re- withholding, delaying, freezing, or releasing
tional Security Council officials reported lease of FMF funds to Ukraine; of United States foreign assistance, military
concerns to National Security Council law- (V) communications between— assistance, or security assistance of any kind
yers, including but not limited to National (aa) officials at the Department of Defense, to Ukraine, including but not limited to the
Security Council Legal Advisor, John including but not limited to Undersecretary Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative
Eisenberg, regarding matters related to of Defense Elaine McCusker; and (USAI) and Foreign Military Financing
Ukraine, including but not limited to— (bb) Associate Director Michael Duffey, (FMF), including but not limited to all com-
(I) the decision to delay military assist- Deputy Associate Director Mark Sandy, or munications with the White House, Depart-
ance to Ukraine; any other Office of Management and Budget ment of Defense, and the Office of Manage-
(II) the July 10, 2019 meeting at the White employee; ment and Budget, as well as the Ukrainian
House with Ukrainian officials; (VI) all draft and final versions of the Au- government’s knowledge prior to August 28,
(III) the President’s July 25, 2019 call with gust 7, 2019, memorandum prepared by the 2019, of any actual or potential suspension,
the President of Ukraine; National Security Division, International withholding, delaying, freezing, or releasing
(IV) a September 1, 2019 meeting between Affairs Division, and Office of General Coun- of United States foreign assistance to
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

Ambassador Sondland and a Ukrainian offi- sel of the Office of Management and Budget Ukraine, including all meetings, calls, or
cial; and about the release of foreign assistance, secu- other engagements with Ukrainian officials
(V) the President’s September 7, 2019 call rity assistance, or security assistance to regarding potential or actual suspensions,
with Ambassador Sondland; Ukraine; and holds, or delays in United States assistance
(vii) any internal review or assessment (VII) the Ukrainian government’s knowl- to Ukraine;
within the White House regarding Ukraine edge prior to August 28, 2019, of any actual or (iii) all documents, communications,
matters following the September 9, 2019, re- potential suspension, withholding, delaying, notes, and other records created or received

VerDate Sep 11 2014 01:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.012 S31JAPT1
January 31, 2020 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S771
by, Secretary Michael R. Pompeo, Counselor (III) a September 15, 2019 memorandum to (iv) planned or actual meetings with Presi-
T. Ulrich Brechbuhl, former Special Rep- file written by Deputy Assistant Secretary dent Trump related to United States foreign
resentative for Ukraine Negotiations Ambas- Kent; assistance, military assistance, or security
sador Kurt Volker, Deputy Assistant Sec- (vii) all meetings or calls, including but assistance to Ukraine, including but not lim-
retary George Kent, then-United States Em- not limited to all requests for or records of ited to any talking points and notes for Sec-
bassy in Ukraine Charge d’Affaires William meetings or telephone calls, scheduling retary Mark Esper’s planned or actual meet-
B. Taylor, and Ambassador to the European items, calendar entries, State Department ings with President Trump on August 16, Au-
Union Gordon Sondland, and other State De- visitor records, and email or text messages gust 19, or August 30, 2019;
partment officials, relating to efforts to— using personal or work-related devices, be- (v) the decision announced on or about
(I) solicit, request, demand, induce, per- tween or among— September 11, 2019, to release appropriated
suade, or coerce Ukraine to conduct or an- (I) current or former State Department of- foreign assistance, military assistance, and
nounce investigations; ficials or employees, including but not lim- security assistance to Ukraine, including but
(II) offer, schedule, cancel, or withhold a ited to Secretary Michael R. Pompeo, Am- not limited to any notes, memoranda, docu-
White House meeting for Ukraine’s presi- bassador Volker, and Ambassador Sondland; mentation or correspondence related to the
dent; or and decision; and
(III) hold and then release military and (II) Rudolph W. Giuliani, Victoria (vi) all meetings and calls between Presi-
other security assistance to Ukraine; Toensing, or Joseph diGenova; and dent Trump and the President of Ukraine,
(iv) any meetings or proposed meetings at (viii) the curtailment or recall of former including but not limited to documents,
or involving the White House that relate to United States Ambassador to Ukraine Marie communications, and other records related
Ukraine, including but not limited to— ‘‘Masha’’ Yovanovitch from the United to the scheduling of, preparation for, and fol-
(I) President Zelensky’s inauguration on States Embassy in Kiev, including credible low-up from the President’s April 21 and
threat reports against her and any protec- July 25, 2019 telephone calls, as well as the
May 20, 2019, in Kiev, Ukraine, including but
tive security measures taken in response; President’s September 25, 2019 meeting with
not limited to President Trump’s decision
and the President of Ukraine in New York; and
not to attend, to ask Vice President Pence to
(E) to the Secretary of Defense com- (2) the Sergeant at Arms is authorized to
lead the delegation, directing Vice President
manding him to produce, for the time period utilize the services of the Deputy Sergeant
Pence not to attend, and the subsequent de-
from January 1, 2019, to the present, all doc- at Arms or any other employee of the Senate
cision about the composition of the delega-
uments, communications, and other records in serving the subpoena authorized to be
tion of the United States;
within the possession, custody, or control of issued by this section.
(II) a meeting at the White House on or
around May 23, 2019, involving, among oth- the Department of Defense, referring or re-
lating to— SA 1296. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
ers, President Trump, then-Special Rep- amendment to the resolution S. Res.
resentative for Ukraine Negotiations Ambas- (i) the actual or potential suspension,
withholding, delaying, freezing, or releasing 488, to provide for related procedures
sador Kurt Volker, then-Energy Secretary
Rick Perry, and United States Ambassador of United States foreign assistance, military concerning the articles of impeach-
to the European Union Gordon Sondland, as assistance, or security assistance of any kind ment against Donald John Trump,
well as any private meetings or conversa- to Ukraine, including but not limited to the President of the United States; as fol-
tions with those individuals before or after Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative lows:
the larger meeting; (USAI) and Foreign Military Financing At the appropriate place in the resolving
(III) meetings at the White House on or (FMF), including but not limited to— clause, insert the following:
(I) communications among or between offi-
about July 10, 2019, involving Ukrainian offi-
cials at the Department of Defense, White SEC. lll. Notwithstanding any other
cials Andriy Yermak and Oleksander provision of this resolution, pursuant to
House, Office of Management and Budget,
Danylyuk and United States Government of- rules V and VI of the Rules of Procedure and
Department of State, or Office of the Vice
ficials, including, but not limited to, then- Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Im-
President;
National Security Advisor John Bolton, Sec- peachment Trials, the Chief Justice of the
(II) documents, communications, notes, or
retary Perry, Ambassador Volker, and Am- United States, through the Secretary of the
other records created, sent, or received by
bassador Sondland, to include at least a Senate, shall issue a subpoena for the taking
Secretary Mark Esper, Deputy Secretary
meeting in Ambassador Bolton’s office and a of testimony of John Robert Bolton, and the
David Norquist, Undersecretary of Defense
subsequent meeting in the Ward Room; Sergeant at Arms is authorized to utilize the
Elaine McCusker, and Deputy Assistant Sec-
(IV) a meeting at the White House on or services of the Deputy Sergeant at Arms or
retary of Defense Laura Cooper, or Mr. Eric
around August 30, 2019, involving President any other employee of the Senate in serving
Chewning;
Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, the subpoena authorized to be issued by this
(III) draft or final letters from Deputy Sec-
and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper; section.
retary David Norquist to the Office of Man-
(V) a planned meeting, later cancelled, in agement and Budget; and
Warsaw, Poland, on or around September 1, SA 1297. Mr. SCHUMER proposed an
(IV) unredacted copies of all documents re- amendment to the resolution S. Res.
2019 between President Trump and President leased in response to the September 25, 2019,
Zelensky, and subsequently attended by Vice Freedom of Information Act request by the
488, to provide for related procedures
President Pence; and Center for Public Integrity (tracking number concerning the articles of impeach-
(VI) a meeting at the White House on or 19-F-1934); ment against Donald John Trump,
around September 11, 2019, involving Presi- (ii) the Ukrainian government’s knowledge President of the United States; as fol-
dent Trump, Vice President Pence, and Mr. prior to August 28, 2019, of any actual or po- lows:
Mulvaney concerning the lifting of the hold tential suspension, withholding, delaying, At the appropriate place in the matter fol-
on security assistance for Ukraine; freezing, or releasing of United States for- lowing the resolving clause, insert the fol-
(v) all communications, including but not eign assistance, military assistance, or secu- lowing:
limited to WhatsApp or text messages on pri- rity assistance to Ukraine, including but not Notwithstanding any other provision of
vate devices, between current or former limited to all meetings, calls, or other en- this resolution, pursuant to rules V and VI of
State Department officials or employees, in- gagements with Ukrainian officials regard- the Rules of Procedure and Practice in the
cluding but not limited to Secretary Michael ing potential or actual suspensions, holds, or Senate When Sitting on Impeachment
R. Pompeo, Ambassador Volker, Ambassador delays in United States assistance to Trials, the Chief Justice of the United
Sondland, Ambassador Taylor, and Deputy Ukraine, including but not limited to— States, through the Secretary of the Senate,
Assistant Secretary Kent, and the following: (I) communications received from the De- shall issue a subpoena for the taking of testi-
President Zelensky, Andriy Yermak, or indi- partment of State concerning the Ukrainian mony on oral deposition and subsequent tes-
viduals or entities associated with or acting Embassy’s inquiries about United States for- timony before the Senate of John Robert
in any capacity as a representative, agent, or eign assistance, military assistance, and se- Bolton, and the Sergeant at Arms is author-
proxy for President Zelensky before and curity assistance to Ukraine; and ized to utilize the services of the Deputy Ser-
after his election; (II) communications received directly from geant at Arms or any other employee of the
(vi) all records specifically identified by the Ukrainian Embassy about United States Senate in serving the subpoena authorized to
witnesses in the House of Representatives’ foreign assistance, military assistance, and be issued by this paragraph.
impeachment inquiry that memorialize key security assistance to Ukraine; The deposition authorized by this resolu-
events or concerns, and any records reflect- (iii) communications, opinions, advice, tion shall be taken before, and presided over
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

ing an official response thereto, including counsel, approvals, or concurrences provided by, the Chief Justice of the United States,
but not limited to— by the Department of Defense, Office of Man- who shall administer to the witness the oath
(I) an August 29, 2019 cable sent by Ambas- agement and Budget, or the White House, on prescribed by rule XXV of the Rules of Pro-
sador Taylor to Secretary Pompeo; the legality of any suspension, withholding, cedure and Practice in the Senate When Sit-
(II) an August 16, 2019 memorandum to file delaying, freezing, or releasing of United ting on Impeachment Trials. The Chief Jus-
written by Deputy Assistant Secretary Kent; States foreign assistance, military assist- tice shall have authority to rule, as an ini-
and ance, and security assistance to Ukraine; tial matter, upon any question arising out of

VerDate Sep 11 2014 01:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.012 S31JAPT1
S772 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE January 31, 2020
the deposition. All objections to a question the deposition with the Secretary of the Sen- peachment against Donald John
shall be noted by the Chief Justice upon the ate, who shall maintain them as confidential Trump, President of the United States;
record of the deposition but the examination proceedings of the Senate. The Sergeant at as follows:
shall proceed, and the witness shall answer Arms is authorized to make available for re-
such question. The witness may refuse to an- view at secure locations, any of the video- At the appropriate place in the matter fol-
swer a question only when necessary to pre- tapes or transcribed deposition records to lowing the resolving clause, insert the fol-
serve a legally recognized privilege, or con- Members of the Senate, one designated staff lowing:
stitutional right, and must identify such member per Senator, and the Chief Justice. Notwithstanding any other provision of
privilege cited if refusing to answer a ques- The Senate may direct the Secretary of the this resolution, the Presiding Officer shall
tion. Senate to distribute such materials, and to issue a subpoena for any witness or any doc-
Examination of the witness at a deposition use whichever means of dissemination, in- ument that a Senator or a party moves to
shall be conducted by the Managers on the cluding printing as Senate documents, print- subpoena if the Presiding Officer determines
part of the House of Representatives or their ing in the Congressional Record, photo- and that the witness or document is likely to
counsel, and by counsel for the President. video- duplication, and electronic dissemina- have probative evidence relevant to either
The witness shall be examined by not more tion, he determines to be appropriate to ac- article of impeachment before the Senate,
than 2 persons each on behalf of the Man- complish any distribution of the videotaped and, consistent with the authority of the
agers and counsel for the President. The wit- or transcribed deposition records that he is Presiding Officer to rule on all questions of
ness may be accompanies by counsel. The directed to make pursuant to this paragraph. evidence, shall rule on any assertion of privi-
scope of the examination by the Managers The deposition authorized by this resolu- lege.
and counsel for both parties shall be limited tion shall be deemed to be proceedings before ORDERS FOR MONDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2020; TUES-
to subject matters reflected in the Senate the Senate for purposes of rule XXIX of the DAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2020; AND WEDNESDAY, FEB-
record. The party taking a deposition shall Standing Rules of the Senate, sections 101, RUARY 5, 2020
present to the other party, not less than 18 102, and 104 of the Revised Statutes (2 U.S.C.
hours in advance of the deposition, copies of Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
191, 192, and 194), sections 703, 705, and 707 of
all exhibits which the deposing party intends the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 (2
I further ask unanimous consent that
to enter into the deposition. No exhibits out- U.S.C. 288b, 288d, and 288f), sections 6002 and when the Senate resumes legislative
side of the Senate record shall be employed, 6005 of title 18, United States Code, and sec- session on Monday, February 3; Tues-
except for articles and materials in the tion 1365 of title 28, United States Code. The day, February 4; and Wednesday, Feb-
press, including electronic media. Any party Secretary of the Senate shall arrange for ruary 5; the Senate be in a period of
may interrogate the witness as if the witness stenographic assistance, including
were declared adverse. morning business with Senators per-
videotaping, to record the depositions as pro- mitted to speak for up to 10 minutes
The deposition shall be videotaped and a
vided in section 205. Such expenses as may be each for debate only.
transcript of the proceeding shall be made.
necessary shall be paid from the ‘‘Appropria-
The deposition shall be conducted in private.
tion Account—Miscellaneous Items’’ in the
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objec-
No person shall be admitted to the deposi- tion, it is so ordered.
contingent fund of the Senate upon vouchers
tion except for the following: The witness,
approved by the Secretary.
counsel for the witness, the Managers on the
The deposition authorized by this resolu- f
part of the House of Representatives, counsel
tion may be conducted for a period of time
for the Managers, counsel for the President, ADJOURNMENT UNTIL MONDAY,
not to exceed 1 day. The period of time for
and the Chief Justice; further, such persons FEBRUARY 3, 2020, AT 11 A.M.
the subsequent testimony before the Senate
whose presence is required to make and pre-
authorized by this resolution shall not ex- Mr. MCCONNELL. Mr. Chief Justice,
serve a record of the proceeding in
ceed 1 day. The deposition and the subse-
videotaped and transcript forms, and staff
quent testimony before the Senate shall both
finally, I ask unanimous consent that
members to the Chief Justice whose presence the trial adjourn until 11 a.m., Feb-
be completed not later than 5 days after the
is required to assist the Chief Justice in pre- ruary 3, and that this order also con-
date on which this resolution is adopted.
siding over the deposition, or for other pur- stitute the adjournment of the Senate.
poses, as determined by the Chief Justice.
All persons present must maintain the con-
SA 1298. Mr. VAN HOLLEN proposed There being no objection, at 7:58
fidentiality of the proceeding. an amendment to the resolution S. p.m., the Senate, sitting as a Court of
The Chief Justice at the deposition shall Res. 488, to provide for related proce- Impeachment, adjourned until Monday,
file the videotaped and transcribed records of dures concerning the articles of im- February 3, 2020, at 11 a.m.
dlhill on DSKBBY8HB2PROD with SENATE

VerDate Sep 11 2014 01:05 Feb 01, 2020 Jkt 099060 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 4637 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\A31JA6.013 S31JAPT1