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PHP/ARGUMENT:_ %22BRAIN_DRAIN %22_IS_A_COST_OF_INTERNATION AL_OPENNESS_TO_FOREIGN_STUD ENTS Argument: "Brain drain" is a cost of international openness to foreign students
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Debate archive: Governments and universities everywhere should compete to attract qualified students regardless of nationality or residence

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Supporting quotes from the Economist Debate Series

Jeetandra, commenter. Economist Online Debate Series. December 20, 2007 11:34 - "This debate is quite intense. People usually believe that having a globaleducation system is helpful. The most notable remark that is common across all pro's is the educational-freedom. It is beyond any doubt that the country on the receiving side of the talented student benefits, but someone is still loosing, which is country from where the students are drained - a phenomenon we call braindrain. When a government or a university seeks students, they tend to pick the cream; with screening done through a series of thorough tests and examinations. This

they leave behind a hole in the country they desert.they aren't rich. But this tolls the developing nations. Education 2. as globally. or ability to pay". Notable examples are developing nations such as India and China where this phenomenon has caused a considerable number of brilliant students who are now in developed countries. we are only as strong as our weakest link -. let's see." Thoughtful.Well.implies that the student seeking experience outside their country are among the best cadre. Some will come back home. Economist Online Debate Series. it has raised the bar for local competition and in turn. A telling omission. commenter.thereby creating more weak links in the global chain we live in -whether the US likes to think and act thusly or not.there is a tendancy for this system to help the rich get richer. Commenter.It was moving to hear from people in Bangladesh and Indonesia about their struggle to get an education not available in their country. December's a fair fight.As curently structured. So. Developing nations . 2007 ."To address another point .In general. doesn't it? All very nice for developed countries to be generously offer to steal the best and brightest from each other .both sides note the financial advantages of charging foreign students extra. 2007 14:24 . Education 2.the strongest competitor and wealthy." • rtfsouth. or residence. albeit one that affects each country differently. that does not benefit the rest of the world."regardless of nationality. Harvard. My vote is not yet cast. Note that the necessary implication of arguments put forward on both sides is that these students are qualified first by their wealth. Once gone. to truly compete. • . to be somewhat needs blind.If the Proposition meant what it said. that both sides will address this inescapable issue. the Proposition states that all Universities "should" recruit the best and the brightest. faculty.Perhaps if the Proposition were modified as above. those being United States and in Europe. what about the view that if any one country or region tries to "hog" all the best. many will not.. Oxford. young minds would leave other less affluent coutnries bereft of their best and brightest -. but I do hope as a fellow debater. and that is their barrier. If we look only from receiving country's axis. largely depending on the country of origin. effectively at the cost to other countries. prestige. because they lack the money. that top students who go overseas for higher education often do not return..and "hogging" the best. etc. This is an issue. then maybe the Proposition would be a little more convincing.. So the universities in home countries will be deprived of some (or most) of their best and brightest. December 14. Yale the usual suspects. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. exactly what the US wants to be -..the famous 'brain drain' argument. I note one thing they seem to have in common . it might address the financial aspect as well . ah yes.those able to help their home countries become. Also to maintain the current elites in power.your results may differ. who will wind up with the best students."Though all views have merit. Economist Debate Series. made the work-force more productive. without regard to the effect this has on the have-not's -. later by their talent . that certainly helps out the developing countries. young minds. The arguments about the supposed cultural advantages of the system must be seen in the light of this little factoid.

.S. and many others like me. These students. no? "Rich makes right" seesm to lose its punch here. There are plenty for all. when one considers the cost to the global economy of any one country or region "hogging" all the best and young minds. December 13."Part of teh debate must be teh cost benefits to teh Global economy .do the students return to establish wealth creation and educational development in their coutries of origin (Africa for example)or does the recruitment of foreign • ."Many U. 2007 20:43 . Respectfully submitted. medical schools during their interview and application process. Because of this. Therefore. medical schools continue to accept applicants from developing countries in the HOPE that they will return to their country of origin to improve its healthcare system and treat the poor and underserved. they usually stay in the U.S. once they are educated. These physicians and other health care professionals often live in the most exclusive communities and drive the best cars. December 13. 2007 03:37 . Online Economist Debate Series. Washington. no? It would seem that cross-border cooperation of these best and youngest minds from their home countries. If these foreign students who obtain medical degrees from the U. and practice in a field which is very lucrative and become even more wealthly. Sadly.. give money to nonprofit organizations and pay our own expenses to travel overseas to treat the poor in developing countries for free to make up for their lack of healthcare access. Most of the physicians in my area.. I. Education 2.Competition is only possible if all respect the rules. and/or Europe truly cared about their own country and its people.C. they would return to their homeland after graduation to treat the underserved and make much needed improvements in its healthcare system." • Lalapie.S. when they become physicians.. are foreign born and do not want to go back to their own country even though they are DESPERATELY needed.they are usually uppermiddle class from college educated parents and the top 5% of earners in their home country. very few United States citizens who apply to medical schools are actually admitted (about 2% of all applicants this year) even though many of these applicants desperately want to attend and have worked very hard for this opportunity. would benefit us all most. as it often does.. This is usually the argument many potential foreign students make to convince the admissions committee to accept them at U. Most of the people I have met in third world countries who are in desperate need of healthcare services are unable to read and do not have access to even a local primary education! The upper-class in developing countries live well and do not appear to associate with the poor.S. commenter. Economist Online Debate Series. How do foreign medical students help their country of origin when they refuse to go home after they are finished with their medical education and training abroad?" Lord Wells. they hurt their country and its people who are in desperate need of their services. commenter.. D. These physicians may have previously considered themselves "poor" by American standards but this is not the case in their home country. By doing this..these are the ones that want a foreign education because they do not plan to return to their home countries when they finish. rarely return home.

Argument: Home countries will always benefit from sending their students abroad . Europe and teh US and never return. and poorer towns would literally dry up." • Yauponder. Economist Online Debate Series. even being pretty smart. should all your potatoes be exported to the highest bidder? Should the poorer citizens of the country that grows the potatoes starve so that the richest country gets the lowest price? Should your intelligent youth be exported to the countries with the richest universities? Should the classroom discussions in the poor country suffer from brain drain? There are some cases." • [Edit ] Edit] Counter-arguments • • Argument: Internationalized education is necessary to producing global problemsolvers . Suuuure it makes sense."This issue is like global free trade: pure open market with border-less competition." Besantos. never to return and benefit their countries of origin? I suspect there is a higher percentage who leave to study in the UK. December 11. there would only be the reproduction of the unequal creation and distribution of prosperity in society that state oriented economies have created. they ought to respect the countries which nurtured these students. but annihilation does little for either.students deplete teh young talent from the potential and future work force of developing countires. even within the richest of countries. if you're the country with all the money. Education 2. Consider water rights in the Western United States. where pure border-less competition is not allowed.. commenter. 2007 08:09 . what would happen to every other contry which lost its great minds? As long as there are no equilibrium in the geography of great education institutions.This is a counter-argument only in the sense that developing countries are part of the global village. In closing.. would have to choose not so strong instituions? Would those foreign students then stay in the country of study and continue to occupy strategic positions? For that matter. commenter. While the universities compete to better themselves and the students they attract. If these were all available to the highest bidder. The widget should be available to all countries and go where it fetches the highest price. 2007 08:18 ."what would happen to the nationals who. But what if you're the poorest country. Economist Online Debate Series. and will benefit from their most talented students receiving the best education possible and benefiting the world as global leaders. like mine. December 12. Las Vegas would own them all. competition between 2 matched opponents is second to none in bettering both.

good or bad . On the other hand.PHP/ARGUMENT:_HOME _COUNTRIES_WILL_ALWAYS_BENEFIT_FROM_SENDING_THEIR_STUDE NTS_ABROAD Argument: Home countries will always benefit from sending their students abroad From Debatepedia Jump to: navigation. ultimately it do not damage the chances for development of poorer country. Some students naturally stay in their own countries. December 14th. as well as to their own country and also in world development. Economist Debate Series.ORG/EN/INDEX."A qualified student in the future can contribute to the development of U. commenter. Economist Online Debate Series.IDEBATE. If he goes home he will take his new experiences . December 16.A. He will be an ambassador of his country while studying. Poorer countries have a lot more major problems than this. So. commenter.S. all qualified students from poorer countries do not come or stay in USA." milci. 2007 "Nothing better can happen to the host and to the mother country of a student who goes to study to a foreign country.HTTP://DEBATEPEDIA. Education 2. search [Edit ] Edit] Parent debate • Debate archive: Governments and universities everywhere should compete to attract qualified students regardless of nationality or residence [Edit ] Edit] Supporting quotes from the Economist Debate Series • mahmuda ruby. 2007 16:50 .home • .

I've heard it happen. someone will capitalize on it ."I am in favor of students to cross their borders for the sake of gaining knowledge. 'Nuff said?" • • [Edit ] Edit] Counter-argument • Argument: "Brain drain" in developing countries is a cost of international openness to foreign students . December 20. here in Slovakia.and thus enrich his society." Art Teacher. in my case. But. commenter. we ended up coming back to Slovakia 4 years later. If he stays on to work in the host country he will enrich that countries society with his knowledge of his home country. getting a broader perspective of the world. I don't have any statistics. when my wife moved to the states for her job. I can't deny its existance because I have no statistics on hand that would prove anything. The Economist Online Debate Series."I want to refute the validity of this brain-drain. 2007 13:56 . would really sever their ties to their home country and family."For small countries such as Singapore. So long as there's a profitable idea out there.foreign capitalists ought to be able to pick up the slack of any 'brain drain'. commenter. 2007 06:41 . It not only opens up the thinking ability but one can do wonders for the society when they return back from foreign countries. as with anywhere else. just in principle. December 11. the ageing of its population and insufficent local talent has forced the authorities to 'import' talented students from around the world. my marriage to a foreigner has resulted in the both of us traveling back and forth repeated. and then moved to the US or the UK." arsalan akmal. it is important to take note that the experience gained overseas can help the country the student came from in many ways. Economist Online Debate Series. it seems strange to me that anyone who left his country for an education. Although the effects of draining talent from poorer countries can be negative. but I can reply to this statement: 'Notable examples are developing nations such as India and China where this phenomenon has caused a considerable number of brilliant students'" These two countries have had the fastest growing economies on Earth for the last decade or so. December 11. 2007 22:45 . commenter. So." • feerdaus. there's money to be made in the developing world. On top of this. green or otherwise. The Economist Online Debate Series. And yet.

ORG/EN/INDEX. commenter. Once we could believe human evolution as well as economic growth has been more and more relying on scientific research and it applications that evolution has networked people into a smaller world. December 15. there will be no boundary of nations."Very platonically imagine.PHP/ARGUMENT:_INTER NATIONALIZED_EDUCATION_IS_NECESSARY_TO_PRODUCING_GLOBAL _PROBLEM-SOLVERS Argument: Internationalized education is necessary to producing global problemsolvers From Debatepedia Parent debate • Debate archive: Governments and universities everywhere should compete to attract qualified students regardless of nationality or residence Supporting quotes from Economist Debate Series • peter hsu. foreign-student policy is a kind of concentrating process. This type of concern is their average citizen losing the opportunity to share the resources of .HTTP://DEBATEPEDIA. foreign-student policy will always be the concerns of these nations of immigrated in and emigrated from. Before of this. two opposite types of concern. people can select the environment and culture of his like on the Earth to enjoy his life. after the stabilized stage of globalization movement has been reached. An intellectual concentration process will keep the momentum of the intellectual concentrated nations in higher evolution. Economist Online Debate Series.IDEBATE. 2007 03:25 .

" • jammy.. December 13. The Economist Online Debate Series. as Will Rogers observed. If we want to grow global leaders. freedom of thinking and expression."I am a pro to the idea that Governments and Universities everywhere should compete to attract qualified students. freedom of thinking and expression. We could not plant grape seed on corn field. We could not plant grape seed on corn field. We really can�€™t wait to solve these problems. especially the resources are shared by migrant students.] 5. pollution. Why ? [.] 5. 2007 04:10 ."Right now our world is in a state of emergency. an academic community which has a very diverse culture in it and. December 15. regardless of nationality or residence. December 13. the nations of students emigrated from are losing the momentum of evolvement. Education 2. Education Debate 2. disease. 2007 . On the other hand. regardless of nationality or residence. If we want to grow global leaders."'Never knew a fellow I did'nt like' is human behavior.higher education in a nation. and political strife. December 14th." Art Teacher.. we should prepare the soil for Online Debate Series. Blaming and limiting foreign students won�€™t solve our problems. so it helps us all to give the best resources to the brightest minds. commenter. commenter. Freedom and Democratic atmosphere is the very best soil for intellectual based industries. Why ? [. an academic community which has a very diverse culture in it and. every nation and every people included in the other types of nations will also enjoy the advanced technologies derived from efficient scientific research due to intellectual concentration.The reality in America is that the leading barriers to higher education of our nation�€™s students are the lack of preparation and cost. Our k-12 schools are failing and this is the direct result. also from the perspective of globalization. commenter. Project the outcome of open foreign-student policy in a long run. Economist. especially those qualified students immigrated in the highly evolving nations. commenter. 2007 04:10 ." Roby Widjaja. What a leg up for the world if the bightest and most able liked each other.."I am a pro to the idea that Governments and Universities everywhere should compete to attract qualified students. Education Debate 2.. and this has to be our overriding concern �€“ not which country�€™s leading companies will earn the most dollars from such learning. Economist Online Debate Series. due to overpopulation." Roby Widjaja. Freedom and Democratic atmosphere is the very best soil for intellectual based industries. Economist Online Debate Series. 2007 18:28 ." • • • . Academic community should be a community which give an unlimited access to any kind of knowledge and culture of this world. Academic community should be a community which give an unlimited access to any kind of knowledge and culture of this world. we should prepare the soil for it.

2007 19:56 "I vote Pro.the best and brightest will migrate to where today's leaders are."We live in a global village with all its benefits and faults. December 12.those can understand the grassroot problem and contribute for solutions. Economist Debate Series."To servive in 21st century we want advancement in science and technology to provide solutions for betterment of human life and solution for global crisis on different issues.So Universities and government have to focus on intellectual qualities of individual for better future and for growth of science& human race. As far as academic establishments are concerned. there should be no secrets in global education. Like industrial health & safety. Economist Online Debate Series." Frugal. industry. colleagues. The institution. regardless where they choose to practice and their chosen field of study. Economist Online Debate Series. 2007 12:29 . After we have mastered "the three Rs" in our national environment. Those institutions (in the larger sense of community) who elect to accept those best and brightest they attract will be long remembered and acknowledged.. meadmaker. commenter. December 11. commenter. And not just of the academic variety. Today's foreign student could be tomorrow's future leader literally anywhere in the world (and will attract tomorrow's best/brightest). it is essential that a wider range of knowlege is attained through international exposure. the over-riding factor should surely be to persons that have been endowed by nature with the best brains can exercise their talents in the best environment. December 11. The best and brightest will remain so." mkd2.". there can be no turning back. future students. commenter. community etc."Denial of access to foreign qualification might result in wider communication gap between the up coming generations which is very necessary for creating harmony in this world. Economist Online Debate Series. December 11. but also the numerous underlying 'sub-discoveries' if you will. Despite the costs and the inherent risks described by the Opposition. advocating for attracting these individuals supercedes the • • • • . 2007 12:36 . On this basis the answer must be to vote FOR the motion. commenter. 2007 17:51 . I see education evolving to become more thematic and clustered -. December 11." arsalan akmal. Economist Online Debate Series.. We need social and cultural life experience to prepare us for an ever more complicated world. If we are truly talking of the best and brightest in the global context. that undoubtedly will occur in many many others. scholars have always disregarded national boundaries in their search for aquiring and exploiting knowledge. 2007 22:45 . In considering the opening arguments we must bear in mind that it is not all about discovering the holy grail by the best/brightest in the various scientific disciplines at a few select institutions.• dishant sharma. all stand to benefit on many levels from these individuals.To develope such technologies we need smarter and intellectual persons in academia and research."at a time when there is an indisputable need to tackle global problems. commenter.

Students who return home often emerge as political and business leaders who are well-inclined toward US interests. And many of these students who have remained in this country compose a significant portion of US research faculty. Of the 1. Japan. there is also a huge potential for trickle-down effect of brilliance if we are really referring to the best/brightest in the broadest sense of the word. application volume has not returned to 2003 levels. Akiba taught in the United States and then returned home to become mayor of Hiroshima. a tightening of the visa process since the terrorist attacks of Sept. others work in research and development in the private sector.PDF For decades." Counter-argument • Argument: "Brain drain" in developing countries is a cost of international openness to foreign students The brain drain US colleges losing foreign students By Debra W. either through visa delays or the misapprehension that they would no longer be welcome in the United States. Concern about declining enrollments of foreign students in US graduate programs goes well beyond university walls. graduate programs were receiving five international applications for every position. but. and in the physical sciences over 40 percent. who came from Japan to study mathematics at MIT. If the trend continues downward. These international students often helped teach undergraduates. 2005 or HTTP://WWW. the lack of foreign graduate students could seriously affect the continued quality of America's academic research. following a 28 percent decline last year (see chart).ORG/PORTALS/0/PDF/N_GLOBEBRAINDRAIN. Stewart | May 8. Such a trend may also signal a change in the nation's status as the destination of choice for international students. adding to their universities' intellectual capital. who came from Mexico to study chemistry at the University of California. Our nation's campuses have welcomed students like Krastan Blagoev. becoming experts in their fields. it must balance national security measures with the need to create a more hospitable climate for foreign-born scholars. As research assistants. As a result. Until recently. 2001. adding to our total knowledge base.4 million graduate students studying in the United States. more significant. Tadatoshi Akiba. 11. Recent federal changes that extend foreign student 2 . and Mario Molina. However. Others returned home. these international students are key players in producing the research and innovation on which a prosperous US economy and domestic job creation depend. Berkeley. often maintaining their ties to the United States and becoming leaders in their own countries. In essence. who came from Bulgaria to study physics at Boston College. In an era of global terrorism and anti-American sentiments abroad. foreign graduate school applications for 2005 have dropped 5 percent. Blagoev became a director of research at Los Alamos National Laboratories. many of these students remained in the United States. in engineering non-US citizens make up over 50 percent of graduate enrollment. The federal government has a daunting challenge. Although the magnitude of the decline is not as dramatic as last year. 17 percent are international. overall. and the direction overall remains negative. After earning his graduate degrees. so many foreign students flocked to US graduate schools that.CGSNET. the United States benefited from ready access to the most talented graduate students on the planet. has discouraged many international graduate students.economic argument in favour of the cultural 'for the good of humanity' one. Following graduate school. Mario Molina joined the faculty at MIT and won the 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. They also conducted research while in graduate school.

But this is not enough. is to lower the dropout rate. but even so. has helped launch the PhD Completion Project. If manufacturing and service jobs are now migrating off-shore. universities must develop better strategies for the recruitment. such as: student selection and admissions. we must redouble our efforts. a long-term vision is needed to address the many issues surrounding the international flow of human capital. it's possible that the period of easy access to international students in the physical sciences and engineering is simply over. and mathematics. If we are to succeed in the new global economy. . Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy launched the National Defense of Education Act. The project has provided awards averaging $70. one that renews our national commitment to science. Today. We must invest at all levels of our educational system. which aimed to increase our national security and economic competitiveness through funding of a variety of programs. During the Sputnik era. The proportion of the US college-aged population earning degrees in science and engineering in 2004 was lower than 16 countries in Asia and Europe. One anticipated result of this project will be replicable strategies for increasing the production of minority PhDs in sciences. Asia. research may not be far behind. a large pool of underrepresented minority talent. scholarship and security. This is particularly so for minorities and women. Pfizer. we must also redouble our efforts to develop our own domestic talent pool. This competition is one of many reasons why we as a nation must actively recruit the best and the brightest from across the globe. but graduate education in particular is key to preparing the country's workforce to succeed in this new knowledge economy. For the United States to improve.000 to 21 universities to create intervention strategies and pilot projects designed to boost doctoral completion rates.3 million for a new National Defense Education Program to provide scholarships and . particularly graduate fellowships. The reasons for such high attrition rates are numerous: uneven program funding. the United States has the diverse population and the social infrastructure to remain a leader in the knowledge-based economy. the United States must maintain its claim to R&D leadership. especially minorities and women. One way to increase the number of graduate students. domestic students earned over three-quarters of the nation's PhD degrees in science and engineering. Thirty years ago the United States annually produced the vast majority of the world's doctoral degrees. is rapidly closing its gap in doctoral production. But. graduate deans addressing the double challenge of low numbers and high attrition are being joined in their efforts by corporate America. Proposals along these lines are emerging. our nation will make great progress in building a stronger workforce and continuing the flow of US-trained R&D leaders and entrepreneurs. financial support. For example. Today we must develop a new National Defense Education Act for the 21st century. The Department of Defense's 2006 budget request includes $10. Right now. domestic or foreign. Europe surpassed US production of PhDs in science and engineering by more than 2. who are underrepresented in the fields most likely affected by a drop in international enrollments. with the governments of China. or a poor fit between student and chosen field of study. graduate schools and programs are implementing new practices in several areas. Whereas in the mid-1970s. If we are to change this trend. one of the nation's leading pharmaceutical companies.000 scholars. and Korea heavily investing in capacity at the graduate level. But think of this: Even if the United States graduates only those students we admit to PhD programs. America's leadership in scientific discovery and innovation for the last 50 years is due in part to this program. and accessible to students in countries from which the United States has traditionally drawn students. today they earn a little more than half. uncertain post-degree career options. a joint effort on behalf of US universities and corporate America to increase the PhD completion rates of students from underrepresented groups. India. and mentoring and advising. and progressive movement in the direction of gender equity. To do this. But to sustain that leadership. engineering. because competition from abroad will only grow stronger over time. Meanwhile. With an expanding immigrant population. recognizing that graduate education is the engine that will drive our economic competitiveness. retention. European countries are harmonizing their systems of education to make their degrees even more portable. too. and degree completion of US students. But in 1999. flexible.visas from one to four years are a promising sign. nearly 50 percent of all students who begin doctoral programs do not earn degrees.

Stewart is president of the Council of Graduate Schools in Washington. Debra W. long-term agenda is still needed. Only by assuring that we continue to attract the best international students and expand opportunities for domestic students will we have the brainpower to sustain our prosperity.C. Fellowships would be awarded in return for a commitment of national service after the completion of studies. D. . But a more comprehensive. Enhanced public diplomacy abroad should be combined with aggressive steps at home to broaden participation.fellowships to undergraduate and graduate students entering critical scientific and foreign language fields.