OFFICE OJ! INDEPEHDElrl'.

COUNSEL SUXt'E 701 WEST

555 ~ S!1'REET ~ N ~ w. ~~N. D.C~ 20004 -'(202l 383-8940

BeORD OF INTERVI:EW

Date of ~scription _2/7{92

~uis Posada Carriles was interviewed by the below~ listed Federal Burea~ of ~nvestigation (FBX) Special Agents (SA). -The intaniew took place from. 9:00 a~m. until

3:30 p.n. in Rpom 426, the U.S. Embassy, Tegucigalpa,

Honduras _ (U) .'

Posada vas advised that the FBr Agents are acting on behalf of the Office of Independent cgQnael (OrC)

. investiqating the Inn/Contra matter. Posada W~$ ad.vised that the orc has r~quest.ed he VQ~untaril.y appew; and ansW'er questions concern~9 Posada's involvement and knowledge of the Contr8 resupply operatian that took plaoe in El Salvador in 1985 and 1986. CU) J

Posada stated he understood who the Agents are and their area Df inquiry and he agreed to be interviewed. Posada then advised as fDllowst (U)

In 1985 PosaQa went from Venezuela to ArUba by private aireraft. Be stayed there for a ~eek and then flew to El Salvador in a private aircra~t. Felix nodrigue~ ar~anged for Posada to came to E1 Salvador_ When Posada arriv$d in El salvador, a friend in the Salvadoran Air Foree, first name unknown Leiva, provided Posada with i~enti£!caticn in the n~e'RamQn Medina Rodri~e%. ~$ identifioation included a salvadoran driver's license and various Salvadoran military ~dentitication. From this day o~, Posada lived under the n~e Ra~on Medina. (U)

Teguciga.lpa,

Investigation on 2/3/92 at __ ~B~o~n~d~y~r~a~s~ _

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PAGE 1

upon arriving in El Salvador, Posada stayad with Rodriquez for two or three days. Rodriquez then helped Posada get a honse in~an Sa1vador, Where Posada lived for the next year or so. After Posada moved into his bouse in San Salvador, be didn't real~y do anything for a couple of months. During this period he had absolutely nothing to do with the Cant4a resupply project that be later became involved in9 (U)

Rodriguez and other Cuhanfriends of Po~ada helped Posada-get out of Venezuela and relocate in El salvador. Ra.fael "Chi Chi" Quintero didn't help get :Pos.ada to

£1 Salvador. U .9. Go"ertunent (USG) official.s such as Oliver North and people from the central Inte~ligence ~gencl (C~A) did not help Posada qQt to El Salvador. Richard Secord had nothing to, do with Posada gett.ing to El Salvador.., (U)

Posada had so~e papers ~ade in Vehezuela with the nama Ralnon Mtldina. Then once ,in El Salvador, Leiva got Posada Salvador~n identification papers. (U)

After "laying low· in San Salvador for two or three ~onthsf Quintero ca11ed Posada end re~ruited hi~ to belp in the contra resupply pro; ",crt.. Quintero waG the one. who approached Posada on working in this project, n~t ~odriguez~ Thomas Cline.s and Secord had no role in recruiting Posada into the project. Posada didn't even know Seoord and Clines at this ti~e. There was no involvement by North or anyone else fro~ the CIA or USG to recruit Posada into working on the resup~~ project. Quintero acted alone on this

matter. ~)

Quintero approached POsada on working on this resupply project.at the time Posada thinks the project was just startin9' As far as Posada knows, he and the project started at the same tiJne. As best Posada oan estiJnate t he was approached by Quintero in ~ate 1985 or the very beginh~ng o~ ~9B6, in early January~ (U)

Juan Rafael Bustillo didn't know Posada's true identity until the plane carrying Eugene Hasenfus went down and Posada's past was exposed. Afte~ Basenfus went downt Posada talked to Bustillo about it and Bustillo said it ~ould be no problem. In fact, Busti110 w~nted to help Posada by·, having hi~ stay at rlopango, where there would be no harassment by the press and things would be quiet. Uowever,

... -fIf •. ".

CO:NT:INUATJ:ON OF :nrl'ERVI:~ OF posADA

PAGE d

posada replied that ha had already been to not want to be isolated again at Ilcpango. Bustillo but continued-:..,to ~ive in his home San Salvador. (U)

Until the Basenfu$ shootdoWD, the only people involved in cont~a resupply activity who knew Posada's true id~ntity were Quintero, Rodriguez and Leiva. Posada does not believe North, Richard Gada, Robert DUtton, the resupply pilots or the Salvadorahs knew who he was. Posada does not think anyone at the u~s. Embassy in San Salvador knew Posada's trua identity until after the Hasenfus shootdown. Posaaa was not trying to publicize bis true identity to anyone, including people with Whom Posad~ was f~iendly in

El Salvador. Posada was afraid to disclose his identity to anyone and he aid not do so. (U)

jail and be did Posada: thanked in

When Quintero recruite~ Posada to work for the resupply project, he didn't s~y specifically what the project was or who was running it. However, Posada and everyone ~nvolved thought that i~ was a secret USG project, even though no on~ in authority specifically ~old them that or provided a lot of detai~s about the projectfs origins. (U)

.'

.

Until he was approaohed by Quintero to work on the resupply project, P.osada had never mat him hefore~ ~hey knew each other hy reputation only. Rodriguez introduced Quintero to Posada. Posada bad hea~d about Quintero heing inVOlved with Edwin Wilsonl Frank Terpil, Ted Shaokley and those kinds at old CIA people. (U)

~uintero's role in the resupply projec~ was as a manager and head con~aot mati between Washington, D.c. and th~ project. Quintero ~as the one who traveled b~ck and forth between Washington ~nd San Salvador, bringing instructions and money. Quintero was the boss until Dutton arrived on the scene, then button was tbe boss. Whenever Rob Owen carue to San Salvador, he was the boss~ Posada understood that Owen was "North C s man. U (U)

After staying with Rodriguez a COUple of days, Posa~a rented a hOQse for himself in San salvador. Quintero and DQtton stayed in Posada's ho~se whenever they visited the proj ect ~ (U)

PAGE !

"

Posadats rol~ in the resupply project was to take care of aJ.l the nee.ds of the reSUpply per90nn~1 f such as their housing', transportation and the like, and to lnak.e arrangeJllents for other needs of the p~oject, such as aircra~t fuel and other kinds of miscellaneous supplies and needs that al'."osew Later, Posada got lI10re involved in the operational area of the project by working the radio during supply flights and helpinq coordiuate supply flights. (U)

Posada slowly started acquiring housing for tbe resupply operation. He leased three ~ore houses for the pilott; to 1ive. posada also leased a SlDall hotel, where the other resupply people lived. By the end of the proj~et, there were fDur houses, includinq Posada's, and a small hotel housing about 30 ~eople who worked in the project. eU)

Posada took care of all at the ~~tters concerning these housing arrangements. He paid the leases, he obtained and paid maids who Oleaned th~, he paid for al~ the uti1ities, ificluding phone bills, he obtained appl.iange$ and al.l othe:r: rel.a.teo. itellls,ifor each house. including keeping it stooked with food and beer. Posada also took care of' transportation for the resupply people. Posada arranged for ,...ehicl.es and driV-er& for the resupply persollhel, and Posada himself used to take people ba~k and forth between Ilopango and the various houses. eU)

concerning the financial aspect Of the resupply project, one thing that stands out in Posada's mind is that nlon~y never seemed to be a prob1eln. There was never a problem about having eQough ~oney back in Washington, however, Posada never really knew where the JIlaner calIle from or who suppliad it. No one ~vBr to1d POsada that the'money came from North or private people Dr the USGt or fronl ahY other source. Quintero and others b~ought ~oney down, but they neVer described where it came from and Posada never ' asked. Posada was working under the assumption that it was a

"Washington project ~ U and [ .\ 1 ') (\ 1\

, he didn't question the ~ (~~ n

source of funding.

Anothe~ thing that ~osada ~ecal~s is that the resupply project was always looking far people to car~ caSh from the United States into El Salvador for Posada to dispense. They ~ere always worried about the restriction on on~y tak~ng $10,000 out of the United States at one ti~e .

. '.

.. SEeR1ft'

CON"rnroA'l'J:ON OF nttEitVIEW 'OF roSADA

PAGE .2

:

Any ti~e any of the ~esupp11 peop~e'went Up to the

United States for any reason, whether it was a p~rsonal visit or whatever, they would-be asked to bring money back. (V)

Quintero only told posada that the money came from Washinston, and he wouldn I.t explain JIlore than that.. However r on one occasion, 'QUintero said that he got money fro~ Richard Secord_ Only Willia. Cooper and QUintero gave posada money tQ run the resupply p~oject. Normally~ it vas just Quintero who brought the ~oney. Quintero would give Posada the ~oney and then Posada wou1d qive Quintero all the receipts and justificatioQ to~ what Posada had'spent or what he needed to spend in the. upcoming month. It was a pretty strict system because peopl~ would check Posada·s receipts and question him about them~ On one occasion. Posada ~ade a mistake by paying himself twice in one mQnth and later they challenged him on it and they had to fix it. Xf there were any diffe~ences in expenses from one ~onth to the "ext, Posada would be question$Q ab~ut it. The phone bills wer~ always questioned beeaUSe they w~re so high. how~ver~ the project told the resupply personnel.that;they eou~d ca11 their family. What peop1e didn't antic2pate was that re~upply people had family a11 ove~ the ~Dr1d and Posada c~n reca~1 one of the pilots had a girlfriend living in the Philippine~. This created very hi9h phone bills, often higher than the rent for the house. (U)

...

The aircraft f~el for the resupply operation vas provided by BUstillo ~d paid ~ oash hy resupply people, usually Posada. At f1rst. a p~lot who was working for Gadd, and Posada cannot remember his na~e nowJ wept wi~h PO$ada to see Bustillo and pay hi~ for tuel. The pilot took out a ~~le of money and started counting out $15,000 on Bustillo's desk and he to~d hi~ it was for fuel that the resupply operation would be usinq~ This insulted Busti110 very much and he cursed the man out and told h~ he ~asn't someone who worked at a gas station. Bu~tillo to~d the pi10t to ~ive the· money to one of his aides. The pilot had to leave the opera~ion because of the poor way in which he handled this vith :

Bustillo. That is also wht'lt\ Posada :;tarted working with

Busti11o. Rustillo d~dnlt like the Amer~cans ~ j \ b~C\~

I~' so austi~lo started dealing~ , M

with Posada. ~)

.. ,

, .....

CON'r:tNUATION OF :rNTElWIEW OF POSADb

.

The American pilot who paid BUstillo the $15,000 and insulted him was about 45 years old. Posada can't relll.e:mber anything else.....about· him. (U)

. ~osada set up an account with Eust~110 and

Bustillots aides by providing them money and then using salvadoran fual for the resupply aircraft as they needed it. When the resupply operation account started running o~t of money, Posada would go to Quintero and ask for more. ~hen someone would bring more woney to Posada and he would replenish .. the acoount with Bustillo t S people.. This arrangement in Posada's words was "se.mi-official.n Posada would get receipts when he paid the Salvadorans, bue it didn·t go through any kind of aocountinq by the Salvadorans other than that. Posada would pay Sustillo anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 a month for fuel. posada wonders if Bustillo wasn1t breaking the law by taking the resupply money and selling fual that had been provided to El SalVador by the USG in the form of foreign aid. (U)

Southern Ai~ ~ransport (SAT) used to fly in an L-l00 to Ilopango about every week. This aircraft w'ould bring in suppli~s. posada usad to take the SAT crew to the hotel in San Salvador and back on these flights. (U)

. Pqsada ctoesn't know Bob Mason of SAT and he didn't

deal with him. Posada used to talk to "small' peopJ.eu at'SAT in Miami, b~t that's all. Posada did not deal with Bill Langton at SAT. No one at SA~ ever gave posada money or made arrangements with Posada about financial matters. (U)

Posada thought that when Cooper brou9h~ mon~y to San Salvador, it came from SAT,' but no one ever told Posada that. That was just his assumption. Posada doesn~t know where all the money caroe from for the resu~ply operation, but he aSsUlulZ!d it cam~ from uWashingtonl1 by the way of Secord and QUintero, and that SAT provided a lot ot it. Posada never knew these kinds of financial details of·the resupply operation~ Posada's dealing with the finances was strictly on a cash baai s with people like Quintero and Cooper. (U)

, Conc~~ning salaries of resupply pe~sbnnel the

pilots were paid $4,500 a month. The riggers and other .personnel we~e paid $3rOOO a month. In addition, eaoh crew·. member rece.ive.d $750 per flight. The repu;Pl?ly personnel a Lso h~d all thei~ expenses paid for by ~osada, who took care of

CONT:tNUATl:ON Ol'" INTERVIEW OF RQSAPA PAGE 7

all thair living expenses. The resupply -, people were also provided ~ith periodic airfare baok to their home in the United states for holtl~ leave:. . (0)

Posada thinks that Quintero was paid more than the pilots, but he's not sure bo~ ~uch he was paid. Posada didn't pay Quintero's salary~ (U)

Posada was paid $3,000 a month and he also received housing, ~ oar, maid servioe, food and other expenses~ In addition, Posada flew on some of the resupply flights and he' earned the $759 for each one of those fl~ghts. In the beginning, Posada was the only one who could speak Spanish well enough to man the radio on the resupply flights. Early in the operation before contras were assigned, ~o$ada flew on a lot of missions and probably averaged b~tween $6,000 qnd $7,000 a month. since all his.exPenses W~re p~id, Posada was able to save most of the motley he earned. (U)

In the be.ginning of Posada's work fer the resu.pply project, ~odriguez rece~ved a salary of $1,000 a month. This started around .:rahua.ryr 1986. Around Mayor June,. ROdrigue.z .. was paid $3,000 a month. Rodriguez received two roonth~y payments of $3,000. Then, at around three or four months before the project terminated in the fall of 1986, Quintero told posad~ that North Was sending the message that Rodriguez should not he paid. The message was that North was upse.t because Rodriguez was a security risK and that he talks to Washington on the phone~ The last few months before the Hasentus c~ashJ Rodriguez worked for BustilLo as his liaison with the resupply project, but 13u.stillo didn't pay hilll

anything. (U) .

Posada never gave Rodriguez a watch and he defihitely diQn't give hi~ a ~olex brand watch. When Posada a~rived in El Salvador from ArUb~1 the pilot who flew him, Leivar helped get Posada his Salvaao~an identification in the name of Ramon Medina. Leiva was very helpful in getting Pos~da into the dountry. While they were doing that, Leiva remarked about the nice watch ~osada was wearing. Posada gave Leiva the watch ou.t of gratitude. The watch was worth about $500, but it was not a Role~ b~and. (U)

Rodriguez made the arrangements to g~t Posada intQ.

El Salvador While Posada Was outside the count~. (U)

coN'l'DtO'ATl:ON OF nrrImVlEW OF E.QSADA

PAGE 8

, ~

Bustillo didn't know anything about Posada coming to El salvador in 1985~ BustillQ didn't even kno~ who:Posada was until Posada was i4entified as a result of statements HasenfUs made when he was captured by the Nicaraguans.' (0)

Rodriquez signed receipts for his salary. Tbe.se ~~ceipts miqht be in the ~aterial posada has saved. They may be in the material stored at llopango, or it ~ay be with his ~riends in Miami. There should b~ other receipts of p~ople's salaries as well~ (U)

Posada wa.s aware. of ltodriguez1 contacts with,the Office of the Vice President (OyP). Rodriguez told ~osada that he wanted to talk to then-Vice President George BUsh and that he arranged a meeting through his friend Donald Gregg. After Rodriguez' springr 1986 meeting with Bush in Washinqton, Rodriquez came hack and told Posada that h~ told Bush that "Salvador is very 9Qod.11 Rodri9Uez said he ;nade very general statements to Bush. However~ what got Ro~riguez very mad was that Bush ,said nothing at. il.ll in response. Rodrigue~' lIleeting with,J Bush on1y l.asted a c.oup~e minuj:.es and Bush did not say a ,word + Bush just th~nked ~odrique2 and that was it. Rodriguez 1r.tas very !Dad that Bush wouldn l:t talk to R.odrigu~:z: JlI.or~~ This really hurt Rodriguez' <ego. :

Ro~riguaz told Posada that he told BUSh about the situation in El. Salvador, b~t ~osada doesn't know if Rodriguez told him about the resupply project. Rodriquez didn't say that he told Bush about the resupply project. (U)

The big proble~ between Ro~riguez and North concerning the resupp~y operation was that Rodriguez would talk on the phone to Gregg about CIA operations and the CIA fo~nd out about it immediately.

~'

</)

Posada knew that Rodriguez and Gregg were g~od and old friends. and that they served in Vietnam together.

..

....~ CoNTlNQ'AT10N OF llrl.'E:RVl:EW' OF POSADA

PAGE .2.

"

posada doesn't believe ~odriguez tald Gregg about the resupply project over the telephone. Posada thinks Rodriguez did it in person because they were suoh good friends •. Posada never heard Rodriguez do so however, and Rodriguez never said be told Greg9 about the resupply project. However, it'S Posa.da's opinion t.b.atRodri911~z tlcan't resist" talking about the resupply project to SDmeone like Gregg. However, Posada doesn ~ t have knowledge of Rodriquez doing that. Posada doesn't think Rodriguez would have talked on the phone about things like this because Rodriquez kneW the CIA Was listening Oh the phone. Posada thinkS that Rodriguez would hav~ been ~ore oareful than that and would have talked in person. posada knows that Rodrigue% talked to Gregg a ~ot on the telephone because Posada used to pay the phone bills:, ~)

Posada has never heard tbe name Sa~ Watson. posada do~sn't know anything about Rodrique~· contacts with watsqn or Watson's knowledge of the re$upply ope~ation. (U),

At this point in the interview. Posada was shown a portion of a ~ono~o9Y~~hicn describes Watson's visit to

El. Salvador during January ~9-20, 1986. This ciu;-onol,ogy describes Rodrigue~ picking up Watson in Guatemala t f:lying h±m to Ilopango and h~ving dinne~ with B~$ti~lo. It a~so describes how Rodriguez gave Watson a' tour of Ilopangot took

. him on a helicopter. operation with the Salvadoran Air. FOrce and ~eetings with various 'officials, including ~a$sador ~dwin Corr, James Steel.e and David Passage. (U)

Posada reviewed this portion of the ohronology and stated he doesn't know 811yi:.hingahout this visit and :he's neVer hea.rd about this visit. It doesn ~ t l.ook right ',to posada because his reco11ection'is that Rodriquez only started flying helicopters around Mayor June. ~986. Posada doesn"t think Rodriguez would have been flying helicopters in 3anuary# 1996, but he's not sure, this is only ~hat he

th.inks. (U) , .

Posada does not know the name Doug Menarenik and has never heard about Rodriguez being in contaot ~ith

hbn. (U)

concerning the oapture of Niaia Dia2, this,happened be£ore Posada arrived in El Salvador, but he has heard about, it. Posada has heard that Rodriguez and Wally Grasheim were t~sting night vision equipment on helicopters and they

PAGE .6Q

.

unexpectedly saw ~LN guerrilla aotivity. They attacked the guerrillas, ended up shooting Diaz and she was captured. Posada has heard that ~rasheim is the one wh~ actuallY grabbed Diaz and put he~ on a helicopter. Rodriguez was in another helicopter and he wasn't on the ground oapturi~9' Dia2* ~he capture of Diaz was a big thing for Rodriguez and helped his relations with the Sa~vadorans. (U)

Posada recal~s the incident when a ~esupply 727 aircraft was ,supposed to go to Eonduras, but the Hondurans wouldn'~ allow it to land. Quintero called tO,ask permission for it to land in El salvador and Posada ended up asking Bustillo for permission. Bustillo agreed and allo~ed the aircraft to land at Xlopango. (U)

Posada had to ask Bustillo for permission for the warehousQ to be b~ilt at Ilopanqo. Bustillo permitted it and that's when they began to build it. (U)

As the resupply operation b~came bigger in e~rly 1986, they hought two Caribous, a C-123 aircraft and another

small aircraft. eU) .

Posada recalls the Lear jet visit by North and secord in the first half of 1986. There were problems between the Contras and the resupply projeot. The contras wanted better aircraft, and they were co~p~aining beoause the Caribou was not big enough. North and Secord arriv~d and met with ~ando Lopez, Enrique Bermudez, Bustillo and ~odriguez. Posad.a has heard that North and Secord said 11Well don r t use the ca.ribou, then USe tbe C-l:2:;./f '1'he Contras said they want good equipment if they have to use the C-123. North said, don't worry about it because ~ericans will fly the

planes. (U)

Posada recalls that on this Jetsta~ fligbt, North and Secord flew aown with an'Amerioan p~lot, Gadd and a good looking stewardess. When Gadd ar~ived, he and Posada went to the pilot's house in San Salvador and st~yed there tor two to th~ee hours. (U)

Posada has heard that North and Secord had their meeting with the Contras and then about 11:30 a.m. or 12,noon they had lunch and drank some Salvadorari pilsner beer.

Posada brought Gadd back and then the party left, taking a . couple cases of tbe: beer. Posada is 'not aware of North and

SE~ CoNTnn1ATION OF J:N'1.I:kR'VIEW or l?OSADA

PAGE II

Secord even 1eavinq Ilopango. Posaaa is not aware of North and Secord visiting Corr at the Embassy. Posada nas never heard of Rodriquez giving North, Secord and steele a helicopter ride into San Salvador in order for them to go to the Embassy to meet with Corr. Posada never heard about No~h o~ Secord ever meeting with Corr. (U)

At this poiht in the interview,' Posada was shown a 1etter from North to Rodriguez, dated September 20, 1985, bearinq ore control numbers ARW022740-43. (0)

Posada read ,this letter ahd st~ted he has never seen it before, but it sounds correct to Posada~ The instructions North is giving Rodriguez in the letter seem to be the things that happened and the tnings Rodr~guez was involved in. Rodriguez never showed this letter to Posada. Rodriguez did tell Posada that North wanted Rodriguez to help the resupply operation. (U)

Rodriguez was very secretive ~n El Salvador, including with Posada •. i Rodriguez \o7as very secretive about his papers and things like tha,t~. he wouldn't show them to anyone. This ~as the way Rodriguez, Quintero and everyone acted. They were' very vague about everything and very secretive. They would have so~ething, talk about it, but not show it to people like ~asaOa. Rodriguez used to keep papers at Ilopango-, but Posada doesn't know what was in thell\~

Posada recalls that Rodriguez also used, to have a personal computer at Ilopango and he would put everything in the computer. ~osada can recall Rodriguez in his apartment typing away on his ,personal computer. Posada doesn't know where Rodriguez' papers or computer files or discs may be. ~osada didn't have any involvement in ~odriguez'

pelongings. (U)

~' '

owen made two or three trips to Salvaoor While Posada was there~ Posada knew that Owen worked directly with North. Owen was higher ranking than Quintero. Posada thinks that Owen wa~ on the A~rilf ~986 L-IOO flight as well.

Posana didn't know all the details about what Owen did, but he thought he was the h~gh-ranking person that worked with North and came down occasiona~ly to OVersee the resupply opera.tion. (U)

~ CONTINUA~l:OH OF :tNTER.VIEW OF POSADA

PAGE aa

~at's'one or the reasons wny pos~da dealt with aust~l~o~ Bustillo didn't get along with a~y of the local ~~r1c~ns very ~Qll. It ~as a very slow proces~ for Steele to b~oome c~ose to Bustillo. Steele and Bustillo £inally did get close, but this was net tbe case at first and it took a long time. ~o$ada Used to see Bustillo daily. He and B~stillo used to 'Work on l!1aintaining the resupply operation, and Posada used to make sure that he got everything he p~~ for with Bustillo. PO$ada was a little uneasy vith Bustil10 taki~g money and Posada wanted to mak~ sUre tha ~es~~lY operation at least got the right ~ount of fuel. ~)

Posada doesn't know anything about the resupply flights to Honduras in ~9B5 and the prob1~ that aros~ with President RD~ Suazo Cordova hDt al~avin9 the fli9h~s to land in Honduras. Posa~a doesntt know anything about the resupply operation ~oving fram Honduras to El Salvador b~Qause of the problems. Posada was not working on the project in late 1985 ~nd he didn't hear about the~e problems when he did begin working on it. (U)

Ha~io Della~iQo called 'Posada recently and said

SA ~oster wants to see him (Della~ioo). Posada didn't Dellamico about Posada's arrafigements to meet with the Posada doesn't' want Della~ioo to know he is seeing the (U)

that te~l FBX .. FBI.

At this point in the 'interview1 Posada was told by SA Foster that the interviewers just would not tel~ Dellamico that they are meeting with Posada. (U)

concerning Dellamioo, PosadaJs understanding was that Ron Martin and Del1~ico had about $25 ~~llion worth of supplies put in warehouses in Honduras~ Posada's understanding of the situation was that CQn9ress was qoing to approve a $~OO ~illion aid package for the Contras. ~artin and his associates purchased weapons in advanoe and put them in the warehQuse. Hartin and his associates thought.tbat the CIA would have to buy ,wea~ons, and so tbey wD~d buy the ones in the warebouses. They thought the CIA would buy these weapons because there was no transportation cost and they

Sf!eRET CONT:muA'l'ION OJ! ~ 'OF pgSltPJ,

PAGE .u

Posada doesn't know anything about the arms: supermarket situation in late 1985. (U)

posada has heard that Martin has to~d Dellamico

that this is the last month nella~ioQ will qat paid.' ,

oe~~8~ico is looking for another jop& Dellamioo has ~topped se11inq arms in El Salvador. Del1amicc is very close:to Hector App~icano a~d other Honduran officialS. (U)

~ ....

P~sada has never met Martin. Posada doesn't know Jim McCoy. (U)

Posada has heard that Della~ico told Rodriquez that Secord was cheating the Contras. Dell~ico sa~d that' secordls profits were too hi9h beeQ~se he had to pay for weapons he bought in Portugal. ' (U)

At this ~oint in the interview, SA Fost~r described a meeting to Posada that took place in ~ate Dec~mber, ,1985. . This ~eeting was attended by Rodriquez, North, Corr. Alan Fiers# Chris Arcos, wi11iam walker and others~ There 'was a~5o a smaller meeting betWeen North and Bustillo and 'others. These mQetinqs all took place at Ilopanqo. (U)

Arter lis~ening to a description of the$e meetings, 'Posada stated that he doesn tt leno", anything .about it.· The only visit like this he remembers is the Lear jet ~eetin9·he, previously described later in 1986 when pO$ada left with -

CONTDmATION OF DtTERVIEW OF POSADA

PAGE II

r

Gadd. Posada never beard anythin~ about North insu1~g Rodriguez at a meeting at I~gpanqo. (U)

Posada recalls Jack ~errell, also known as Flaco.

Terrell was always h~n9ing around the resupply project. Terrell ended up qettinq ~aid about $150 a day to pack r~upply parac:hutes. This happened around JUJle or JU~y I 1986. (U)

Posada doesn't know Tom Posey. (U)

Posada recalls the constrqetion of the Butler buildings in early ~986. This was the first work P~sada was invo~~ed in with the resupply operation. QUintero must have recruited Posada to ~crk for tha resupp~y project about a week before the ~rt of cDnstruction of these buildings. Posada re~alls Jerry, Fontana cominq to Ilopa~90 to build the buildings. Fontaha worked fro~ 7:00 a.m. unti1 11:00·~_m. because he wanted to get the work done fast. He was promised

'a bonus if he finished .quiCkly. Fontana was·a 900d builder, and be worke~ al~ost ar~und the clock on this

construction. (U)

..

Posada remembers a lot of Sa1vadorans were recruited to help lay the cement for thes~ buildings, but be doesn't recall Bustillo personally gettin9 involved a~d he1pibg with the oonst~ctioh. AS soon as the build~n9s were finished. the Contra weapons were moved tro~ the Salvadoran Air F9rce warehouse into these buildings. (U)

Posada was involved in the constru~tion of these buildings inasmuch as he ohtaineo the supplies n~eded by Pontana. In addition, Posada had to translate between Fontana and the salvadoran workers hecause Fontana doesn't speak Spanish. Posada thinks that someone. either Rodriquez or Quintero; gave Fontana a few hundred dollars spending ~oney ~hen Fontana first arrived to construct the

buil dings _ (U)

.. ~ .

:1 ;.

CONTINUAT.I:ON OF INTXR.VlEW OF 1!.OSADA

PAGE 12

Posada, Rodriguez and Quintero all took photographs of the buildings. It's possible some of these photographs are in the boxes of m~terial' Posada has storeo in

El Salv&dor. (U)

Tbere's no gu~stion that Steele knew about the Butler buildinqs~ However, Posada doesn't rQmember him getting a tour of the buildings wnile they were being ~onstructed. Posada never saw Carr looking at the Butler bl.lildings. (U)

At this point in the interview, SA Foster descrihed an incident for Posada in which ~odriguez, Posada and FOhtana are said to be walking to Rodriguez' apart~ent at !lopango. Rodriquez invited them in for a drink and tUen ~oQriguez is said to have said something to the effect that he "had to get on hi's hot line to Gregg I If meaning he had to call Gregg. ,(U)

Posada ~oesnlt recall this episode, but he recalls Rodriguez was always oallil1g Gl:"egg.' Posada knows this hecause he's the one wh~ paid Rodriguez' phone bill. Fosada was. prese.nt at times when Rodriguez talke:d to Greggr bu.t during those times Rodriguez and GrQgg talked about

El Salvador in general. Posada didn't overhear Rodriguez talk to Gregg about the contra resupply project. (U)

Posada remembers Pavid Rankin as a Mil Group otfic~r who was based at Ilopango. Rankin didn't wo~k with the resupply project. Howev~rt Posa~a can recall that Rqnkin was friends with the resupply pilots. He used ~o talk to the pi~ots and give theru advise. P~sada also recalls that Rankin used to give the pilots weather in.formation. Rankin 'IIWa.S curious" so he wou.ld. talk to the pilots and kind of liang aro~nd. Posada doesn1t ramember seeing ~~nkin going into the planes and working with the cargo or l:'igging or the packing af the supplles that ~ere going to be dropped from the pla.nes. (U)

, Posada r~calls the ~ebruary, 1986 emergency lahding of a Caribou in ronte to Ilopango. The pilot of tnis aircraft was the same person who orfe~ed Bustillo the $l5,OOO -in oash to pay for fuel and angered Bustillo. Xbe Caribou crew had to drop an engine., The next day Bustillo sent a helicopter to pick up the crew, and the day after that, he " sent a helicopter to fix the aircraft so it CQuld fly back to I~opango. Pos~Qa recalls newsp~per articles about it.

SE~

·'COw.rnmATl:ON OF :rN'1.'EIWX£W OF pgSAnA PAGE 16

Quintero told the resupply people that they are not to talk to anyone f especial~y the press t about any part of the project. 'Posada doesnJt recall Steele and/or Corr exa~inin9 the aircraft parts at Ilopanqo. (U)

Posada never ~Qt corr. Posada doesn·t know Carr's actual ro~e in the Contra resupp1y operation, but Rodriquez to1d Fosada that Carr was well informed of tbeprojeot~ Rodriguez told Posada that both Rodriguez and Steele k~pt corr informed of the project~ (TI)

Posada never talked to North ~n person or on the phona. Posada didn't even ~eet North when North ~nd.Secord lIIade their Lear jet visit in the spring of ~986. During that visit, Posada left yith Gadd# so he didn't meet North or go to any meetings with him and Seoord. (U)

tf

In Posada's opinion I Rodrigue~ is talkative. immature ana has ego problems. Given what Posada knows about Rod~i9Uez' personal ity i Posada ass~es th~t RodrigueZ ~t91d Gregg and other friends about the resupply project. ~osada feel.s this way because to talk like this is ~'in his (:Rodriguez') nature." Posada illust.rates his point by telling.the story cf a scorpion who ~anted to cross a stream, however, the scorpion couldn't swi~. The scorpion asked a froq to take him acrossf but the frog is afraid the scorpion will sting and kill him. The scorpion reassu,res .. the frog by say~ng ~I wouldn't sting you because ~f I did, you would drown and I would fall in the water and also drown.~' ·The frog agrees to take the scorpion and gets half way acr~ss the stream when the scorpion stings him. As the frog is drowning he asks the scorpion CVWhy ·did you do it.? Now we':tl both drown. It The scorpion replied "I oouldn't help lllyself6 it's in my nature.1I This 'story illustrates Rodriguez' personality and his propensity to talk. Ta1king to others about ~i~self and making hi~$elf !mportant is in Rodriguez' nature.' (U)

. concerning the KL-43 communication devices. the

resupply operation had several. Quintero had one and kept it in Posadais house. ROdriguez used to Come and use it·in P9sada"s house. steele used one· and Posada is aw~re that

~, .

'SECICJ:I.'l' COS'TDmATION OF nt'J:EkVJ:EW' OF EOSAPA

PAGE 11

Joseph Fernande~ had one in Costa Rica. Fernande~ used to use the KL-43 devioe to cammunicat$ with the project. Rodri.guez wouldn' t ~ctua.lly "fiend me.ssages himself, hut· he would work with Quintero oI'lnd they would sena lZlessages toge.ther, 'l'he message would be signed by Quintero, but Rodriquez and Posada would help produoe the messaqe. (U)

Posada r~ca11ed Dutton's first trip to Ilopango in the spring of 1986. He ~et kodriguez, Posada and Quintero an4 they a11 went to Posadals house and talked. Posada remembers that Rodriguez left the me~ting fairly quickly. Dutton was busy asXing a lot ot questions about the o~ation and taking a lot of noteS. posada also recalls that .DUtton and Quinte~o complained about Rodrigue2. Posada also ree&lls that around the tme of this first trip, ana maybe durinq this trip, DUtton wanted to use two C-123s at the same time during a resupply drop~ DUtton aSk~ Bustillo about doing it. Busti~lo then called Rodriguez and they talked about it. ~odri9Uez told Bustillo that it was too risky to take two "aircraft at once and they would be too vuln$rab~e. After

pe&r~n9 that explanatiop, Bust~llo ~AS against the idea and to1d ~odri9Uez to tell D~~ton that he doesn't want it done. Roariguez relayed the ~essage to Dutton and then Dutton told Rodriquez that BUstillo was a IIsoldado chooolate," .... hich in Engli~h ~ans a Chooolate $old~er. since Rodriguez and Dutton do not get along, Rodriguez, of course, ~edia~ely tells Bustiilo of Dutton'~ insult. This really got Bustillo mad and there was nO way Bustillo would allow the flights after that. This adds to the deterioration of relations

between Bustillo and the "qringos" invo1Ved with .

resupply. (U)

Posada recalls the Avirgan HOney la~auit. Be rec~lls that pe,ople were concerned ~out it, but h~ doesn't re~ember anything more ~ecific. He doesn't re~emher any specific conversation about it except Quiutero compla~ning about it, and co~plaining bow it would cost him money to defend himself from this suit. (U)

.,.' .

Posada heard about the visit to El SalvAdor by Pedro neboredo, the Mayor of West Miami, but Posada wasn·t involved in the visit and he hever ~et hi~. CU}

Posada also heard about two Cuban doctors from Miami who Were friends of Rodri9uez. They were also invited t,o El Salvador and given a tour by Rodriguez of the etitire

'.SRCitt'P

· .. SEGRIft'

PAGE JJ!

resupply operation. Posada thinks this got No;rt:h and :the CIA upset. Posada doesn't remember the nam.es of these doctors, but he heard that. they-· helped wounded Clciltras. ~)

Posada didn't meet ·these Cuban visitors because he didnYt want to ~aet any CUbans. Posada didn't want people to know be was in El. Salvador. He ~ade it a point not to let the Miami o,Iban community know h(! was there because' if they learned ~bout it, it wcula'get out. No one in El Salv.ador cared too ~uch about the CUbans. so nobody asked about Posada~' It wasn' t like Kiami with its ~arge CUban comm.Wli ty who knew and cared about POS~d8.. (U)

Concerning Eden Pastora and the southern Front, Posada heard that Fernande~ to1d a southern oomwander·that if they renounced Pastora, he (Fern.andez) wou1d baole them. He t()ld. them that if they left Pastora, they would l:'eceiv.e USG he~p ~ When F~l:1lande2 came to El S~l vador to see the proj ect r he told Quintero that Quintero shau1d supply weapons to the Southern Front ~o~and~rs. Fernandez knew the commanders and was in con~ct tJith the.m. Fernandez told tbe resupply project where to drop supplies to th~ southern commanders. Fernandez would call the resupply project beforehand and give the coordinates and the vectors for the pilots in order to drop to the southern o~anders. The resupply operation would make th~ drop two hours after Fernande2 ~~de his call. 'l'wo hours aJ:ter the drop 'Was made , the resupply project would ca~l Fernandez and report on the ~ission. All of these supply drop contacts with Fernandez were done over the KL-43 machine. eU)

Posada doesn't know anything about a Southern Front commanders Beeting with Bustillo. (U)

When the Contras in the north saw the success in the resupply operation's drops to the south, they ask~~ for help also~ The resupply project sent over a hundred flights to the north. Flights to the north would leave almost .

daily. (U) .

Posada is Sl,lre William casey and the CIA back in Washington knew all about this re$Upply activity, bec:;:rm~~ ~ernandez was involved with drops ,to the south and

_ _ . _ fiiaw 'What the resubPly.proJect

was doing. As far ~~ posada knows, no .

~ was directly invp~vQd in the

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW' OP :egSADA

PAGE II

resupply project. ThQ resupply pilots thought they were working for the CIA. '

As far at:

Posada knows, Fernandez was the only cXA person stationed in the region who was directly involved in the resupply

activity. ~)

Concetning the resupply airfield in santa El.ena.,

:'costa Rica# which Posada knell as "the Plantation,ll two kmerica~s built it under contract and they used costa Rican worker~. Quintero was in charqe of construction of this. airfield, The plan was tD store fuel there, and then .the resupply flights from J:lopan90 coul.d go there first, refuel and then go into Nicaragua. ~is would avoid baving-to take the aQre dangerous route of flying directly from El Salvador into Nicaraguan air space at the closest point~ Baw~ver, the Santa Elena airfield never worked out very ~ell~ It~as a very bad ~irstrip. Th~ yay santa Elena was sUpposed to work was it would take a C-123 six hours to fly to Santa Elena, refuel, fly half an, hQqr ~nto wic~qua, ~e a drop, turn around, fly half an hou+ o~t of Nic~~a9ll8 towards the'

Santa }"!1ena area, and then make the return six-hour flight ~"

back to Ilopango. This way, the aircraft was only over ~icaraguan air spaoe the ~ini~~ amount of ti~e. (U)

Posada ~as on the wel1-kno~ Contra resupply flight that got st.uck in the JD.ud on the santa Elena airstrip.

coo~r was the pilot. Vern Hughes was thera, and also a bald-headed gringo whose last name was either Runny or Kenny. The plane land~d and got ~tuck in tb~ mUd. Th$ aircraft crew used their radio to call John Piowity. Piowity sent a Caribou aircraft to Santa Elena to assist. They unloaded all the cargo o~t of the C-12J and.then used the Caribou to pull the aircraft out of the mud. Then they reloaded eVerYthing back into the C-123 and took off. Posada remembers the danger in that flight very well. When the C-l~3 got ~tuck while lahding on the airstrip, it brought the plane to a very abrupt stop. If the cargo hadn't been tied down ~orrectly, it wou1d have shifted and crushed 'the crew to death. ' f'ernandez wasn't called' during this rescu~ operation, but he was informed of it. Posada doesn't know who informed' Fer~andez about this incident. (U)

Concerning the role of Fernande~ and Costa Rica in Contra ~esupply activity, Posada heard the story that·No~" pressured then-U.S. Ambassador Lewis Tambs to help. Tambs'

then went to see President Monge and threatened him to allow the resupply aotivity to take place. There's no question in PO$ada's mind thatPernandez'was working on this effort to u~e Co~ta Rica. (U)

Posada doesn't know about any other orqaniz~tiQn~ or oountries who provided money or 900ds to the resup~lY operation other than the vague ·'Washinqt.on peopl!!" Quwtero ta2ked about and what everyQPe acsumed was the USG/ClA-type ~f operation. Posada didn1t kno~ anything about Saudi money or other countries or organizations contributing money. Posada r~emhers the~e wer4 some Israe1is wbo were trying to sell arms in El Salvador, but be doesn't think they worked with ° the p~ojeet~ (U)

Jorge Has Canosa is a friend of Posada. Nas knew about the resupply oper~tion, but be was not involved~ Posada has only been in contact with Mas onoe or twice sinoe November, 1986. Mas did not support Posaaa after the· res~pply operation was disclosed in late 198~. Mas i~ t09

busy in his lobbying ao1t.i vi ty, that' S why Posada does1'I' t try _, ,

to contact hi~. (U)

The resupply operation supplied the Contras to the south and Secord and North passed the word down that that's what they wanted done. By the end o£ the rQsupply operation I thfi!Y were supplying both the south and the north. Bermudez didn't want to supply tbe south. Bermudez didn't get along with or trust the Contrac in the south ~ BeJ:lnuaez and th~ Contr~s in the north had been supplied by the CIA and'by De11amico even bafore the resupply operation started in

El Salvador. The resupply oper~tion at first was 90in9 t2 just supply the south, but it ended up supplying both~ (f)

Posada didh't know much about the Dell~mico arms supply project, hut he knew there was a lack of logistics in the operation. Posada remembers hearing that Del1ami~o had too lIlany hand grenades and C-4 explosives, which were.things the Contras ~eally didn't n~ed. Del1amico didn't hav~ enough of the right ammunition the Contras rea11y needed. Posada doesn't know if Seoord wa~ cheating theoContras by ch~rging them too much for supplies, but ~veryone said be was. Posada tried to s1;:~l out of al.l of th?-s activity concerning the supplies. y-)

~, ComDlO'ATION 01' mTERVIJ::W OF mSADA

PAGE Z.l;

.'

Posada was on a resupply flight into Nicaragua arouna May, 198~ that landed at San Jose, costa Rica to refua~. Steele oa~leo....'Jrernahdez ahead of time and told bim to make arrangements for the aircraft to be refueled, and that's what happened. The costa Ricans ~ere waiting for the aircraft and they refueled them. Everyone knew it was a U.S. flight, CQoause there was a u.s. pilot and crew. The pilots paid with cash. The'pilots alwa¥s carrie~ extra cash with them on resupply flights in case they had problems, they needed to purchase fuel or service in an emergency. The pilot for this flight was Bobby Owen. Hughes was also on the

flight. (U) ,

steele oalled people in costa Rica befo~shand and asked them to help an American aircraft. The people in

San Jose didn't know about the plane1s resupply mission. The plane landed and they were given oil and gas~ ~be whole ~top only lasted, 15 or 20 minutes. The flight. plan all along was to go to S~n Jose. It was worked out by Steele in

advance. (U)

/

~osada was on another memorable resupply flight.

The weather is very bad in El Salvador during May and June. In addition I the resupply aircraft had bad equipment. On one resupply flight, a C-123 couldn't find the drop site. They inadvertently strayed over Nicaragua. The alti~eter was giving bad readings, and while it r~ad they were at 2,000 feet, they were actually at .treetop level~ All of a sudden there was a horrible jolt on the plane and the crew thought they had been hit by Nioaraguan ground fi~e. They ilIllne.d.iately aborted the.ir tnis'sion and, returnee! to Ilopango. When thsy landedl they realized they had ~n into a tree and pieces of it were stuck in one engine. posada Qoesnrt remember Corr or Steele getting involved in 'this flight. Posada qoes recall the resulting newspaper articles about it

howev~r. (U) <.

Posaqa recalls that after Rodriguez' ~eeting with North in Washington in the summer of 198Ei, Rod.riguez was very ~ngry over the fight they had. ~fter their meeting, Rodriguez was !flooking for trouhle,1t and so he went to SAT in Miami and rorced tne pilot to take a C-123 back to

EI Salvador. Quintero t~en had to call down to Posada and

Rodriguez and try to straighten everything out. (U) "

CONTINUATION OF lFI'ERVIEW OF POSADA

PAGE II

:

Posaaa didn·t hear that Gregg called down to Ilo~ango ~fte~ ~odrigue~ brought the C-~23 to Ilopango ih August, ~986. The onl~·thin9 Posada heard as an aftermath was that SAT was goinq to sue Rodriquez over it. (U)

Posada was in the ~iddle between QUintero and Rodriguez. Quintero and RodrigUez didn·t get along, but Posada was on good terms with hoth of them. Both of them used to aome to posada and oomplain about the other. Posada' didn't want to b~ in this uncomxo~able position. Posada just kept working at his job and was trying to not get involved in the politics o£ the resupply o~eration. (U)

Posada thinks he was a crew member on the first of the two L-100 flights on successive nights in April, 1986. The pilot was "Bonzo" and Posada thinks that Bobby O ...... en was also aboard~ Posada remembers that the insurance company that insured the airoraft found out about this flight an~'was very angry about it. 'other than the angry in5u~arice company, Pos~da didn't think the flight was causing anymore trouble than any other f~ight~ ,IPosada was on boa.rd to work ,.the radio and talk to the contras on_the ground. They had a lot ,of trouble locating the cont~a ground position~ The Sandinistas knew what the resupply operation was doing. The sahdinistas used to get on the radio and try to lure the resupply aircraft away from the cor~eot drop site to an area where they could shoot it down. In addition, the Sandinistas were light~ng their own bonfi~es in Nicaragua, trying to confuse the resupply people into ~aking a ctrop at the wrong looation. Posad~ remembers all of these things haPP$ned on this L-100 flight. Posad~ remembers cursihg the Sandinistas on the radio because they wer~.trying to fool them into .going in the wrong place. On the first night they couldn't find the contras. On the second night's flight they could an~ they dropped 40,000 lhs. to them. (U)

I'l:"" ,

Posada remembers that steele was ~nvolved in these L-100 flights~ Steele was very nervous about them. Steele's big concerns were tbat there ~ere U.s. people aboard and that it was dangerous to go back on successive nights. Ev~ryohe knew the sandinistas were trying to get the planes. (U)

Posada is not aware of any conoe:r;n by stee.le or North qfter the first L-100 flight about whether there should be a second flight an the next night. Posada is nat aware of

CONTnMATXDN OF ~ OP POSADA

PAGE U

any calls to Washingtonr D.C. after'the first flight ab~ut Whether there should be a seoond ~100 flight. Posada ~s not aware of any calls to Washington to get approval from,Nortb or others in the USG for the secDnd L-100 flight. (U)'

posada remembers he picked up the pilots at the hotel and took them o~t for the L-100 flights. (U)

Concerning Steele's role with the res~pply operation, Posa~~ understood it to be that the resupply people would use Steele when they had to. Posada • s understanding is that Rodriquez used to keep Steele involved and informed on "'hat ""as going cn with the resupply

,activity.. (U) .

Posada rem~ers John singlauh in San salva~or on two, oocasions. SinglaUb was going t9 help the. resupply Qffortr but he never did. Posada's understanding was that Sinq~aub was going to provide financial and ~eapons help, but it never happeneQ. Posada doesn 1t know of Singl.aub actualJ.y ,providing he.1P to the: Cc;mtras ~t an earlier tiJl1e. (U)

Posada ~eme~rs hearing fro~ Rodriguez abaut the August 12, 1986 meeting in Gre9g's office. After this JIleet.i.ng f Rodri9Ue%. Cl;lllle. back to llopango angry. He said he had beefi called a security risk and had to get out of the project... When Rodriquez CaJDe back, he ~ent to see Bustillo. Rodriguez told ~ti~lo what had happened and that he'woUld have to get out of the project. Bustillo said "Okay~' then you can be the liaison between ~e and the resupply opsration. II (U)

, ,

Posada alw~y$ thought'the USG wa$ info~ed about th~ resupply operation. Posada doesn't think that this August'12, 1986 neeting was that ~i9nificantl because' he didn't think it was the first tilne .. the usc;; was info:t'lned of

the, resupply activities_ (U) ,

Late in 1986, when everyone was waiting for'the $~OO mi~lion CIA program to begin, everyone thought the ~esupply project wou1d Just stay in p1aoe after the CIA took over_ Everyone thought this would happen beoause they had the experience and were already in p~ace. Everyotie was set for the CIA to take over the project; but after the Hasenfus. flightt the CIA wouldn't touch it. However, the CIA still.

CON'1'INtJATIoH OF INTERVIEW OF POSADA

PAGE II

contac:t.ed some people, ~ . new proj eat ~ <f}

to hQlp them with the

",...

Posada has his own opinion on what happened on the Hasenfus flight. Since Posada was involved in transport.ing the pilots fro~ their ho~es to Ilopabgo, he is aware that on his way to Qepa~ on th~ Hasenfu$ flight, coop~r asked his driver to pick hil!1 up two hours earlier than normal. This te~1s Posada that Cooper was not flying down the coast and then cutting into Nicaragua, but instead was flying directly into Nicaraguan airspace oh the ~ost direct land route Xn order to save t~e. Posada remembe~ that ~asenfus always earried a paraehute and ~veryone thought it was silly, vut it enQed up saving his life. (U)

Posada rem~ers when the Hasenfus flight didn't ·come back that afternoon." Posada IS first act was to call Rodriguez, who was in Miami. Rodriguez told him ,that Radio Havana had already announoed the downing of an aircraft. At this time, Quint~ro was also in Miami and Dutton was in Wa~bingtonr D.C. Rodriguez told Posada that he would call people in Washington about the missing flight. Posada then went to the resupply bouses and told eVBryone what had happen~d. The next daYr the press was going around looking at the resupply houses. The press found so~e of the h04ses and sat on the1l'l, but it wasn't until the fifth day after Has~nfus was shot down that the press finally found ~osBda's house. (U)

After the Hasenfus flight didn't co~e back, pqsada·, also called Steele. Steele asked him who was on board and . Posada told hi~. Steele then C~e over to Posada's house to

.-S-BeRETCONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW OF pgSADA

:PAGE 25

r

talk and see a map~ Posada rememhe~s steele took the map in order to brief Corr on the missing plane~ Meanwhile, Dutton and Quintero werequio~ly coming' back to El Salvador. (0)

Pogada also told Luis Ro~i9Uez that the plane W~S lost. Rodriguez kne~ what w~s going on with th~ contra resupply operation, but he was not involved. He was a CUban so he and Posada used to talk. (U)

Posada never talked to Corr at the time of the Hasenfus flight or ~t any' other tiIDe. Posada neV$r talked ,to Corr in PQrso~ or on the phona~ (U)

Soon after the Hasenfus f~ight, Dutton and Quihtaro arrived in San Salvador anq they and Posada t~ied to figur~ out what to do. Dutton indicated to Posada that he or someone else involved, had been questioned by the FBI and that they told the FBI that Posada was the field ~anager ct the' operation at Ilopango. They told the FBI that Posada was not a u.s. citizen. Dutton told Posada that the FBI wanted to talk to him at 8: 00 a "m~i the next day - However, the, FBr never called Posad~ ~ Lat'er, Dutton told Pc;>sada. :that it was okay, that the FBI wouldn't investigate. Dutton said that Washington had "stopped. the. investigation. I' (U)

~' "

Posada wasn't scared that Dutton had id~ntified him to the FBI as someone who was in charge& ~osada thought he Was working for Ronald Reagan and that it was an approved USG project. Dutton, Quintero and everyone were ~lways mysterious when dealing with Posada. ~hey were never specific about Who the. "the.y" wel;'e when 'they talked of others involved in the project. They always talked about how IIWashington" wa,s doing things, but they didn't specify the people actually involved. No one ever expla~ned everything to Pasaqa, even a£ter Hasenfus was shot down and everything was becoming unraveled. (U)

Dutton and Quintero quickly left El Salvador and Posada was left all alone to clean up the mess du~ing the post-Hasenfus period~ Posada had to ~ove all the equipment out of the houses and close them down. Posada haQ to get all the U. S., personne.l out of th,e country I dispose of their personal weapobs, communication gear, terminate the leases and utilities, payoff allot the outstanding bills and all" other loose enqs. Luckily for Posada, the earthquake came - and the press left their surveillance of the resupply houses.

CONTINUit.!t:'ION OF INTERVIEW OF POSADA

PAGE 26

Posada then began moving the u.s~ personnel to rlopango and getting them out o~ the coun~ry slowly, by twos or threes. Posada went to all the r ··fiouses and oollect.ed a~l the equipment, oancelled the le~ses and paid -the phone and other utility bills. Bustillo 9ave Posada some Salvadoran men and trucks to help him claan out everythirig in the houses. BecaUse he Wasn't paid his last monthts salary, Posada was told by either Dutton or Quintero that instead of getting a salary, he should just sell the resupply persohnells cars and televisions and keep the money. Posada gave BUstillo some of the radlo ~quip~ent and the weapons left by the personnel. The entire warehouse of parts at J:l'opango went to the Salvadoran Air Force. (U)

During the course of cleaning, up these houses~ Posada collected papers, ~aps, house and fuel reoeipts, flight.logs, photographs and other kind of miscel~aneous items and put them in two boxes. ~hese boxes were stored at Xlopango and as far as Posada knows, they're still there. Posad.a. lIlay still have. access to thelIl if they still exist.

posada gave them to Leiva to hold, and Posada now thinks ~ .

they·re under the oontrol of Col. Conninberg. conninb~rg was

the number two man ~nder Bustillo and is still the number two

man at Ilopangom (U)

Posada hopes tbe two boxes of material are: still in El Salvador: Posada thinks he can get thelIl out of

El Salvador. Posada will try to travel to salvador next week and make arrangements to turn them over the SA Kiszynski, who will also be in S~n Salvador~ The documents are at Ilop~ngo and Posada wi1l need one of his friends to esoort him ~nd the boxes out. Posada doesn't think he could take them out himself. It's a'sensitive situation because BUstillo has been linked to the Je~uit murders. Bustillo has been giv~n a job as the Attache to Israel, but this is an empty jop and Bustillo never goes to Israel. Bustillo has no power in

El Salvador now. (U)

Posada thinks that Bustillo kept one of the resupply operation's maule airoraft and paintea it green. Bustillo has a fumigation business on the side and Posa~a thinks he's Qsing th~ ma~le in this business. (U), '

At the time of the Hasenfus shootdown, the two Caribous were already at Aguacate. The two C-123s were moved to A~acate, as were some of the supplies~ (U)

r

piowity was not involved in cleaning up the resupply operation after the Hasenfus shootdown. (U)

" _.'

Before the earthquake, the American resupply personnel were trapped in. their houses because of the press surveillance. After the earthquake, the ,press 1e£t and the Americans were able to qo to Ilopango and then leave

El Sa~vador qu~etly.· (U)

Only Quintero and Posada oleaned out the stuff in the. hov-sas. HoWever, Quintero soon left. a.long- with Dutton and everyone e~se and so posada finished up cleaninq everythin~ out of the houses and closing down the operation. (U)

, When Posada was shot in Guatema~a, two of his CUban

friends from Miami came. to visit him: I •

............... , arid Posada

ga~e them a box of papers which they took to ~iami. ~hey still have these doouments and Posada will call them and tel~ them to give them to tbl';'l interviewing Agents. (U),

ROdriguez'mignt also. have some papers. Rod~iguez was careful to alwqy.s keep ai~craft fuel receipts and the interviewing Agents should ask Rodriguez ahou~ any documents he has. (U)

After Posada cleaned out and closed down the resupply operation, he went into hiding. Posada had saved about $40,000 from working with the resupply operation and he used this to live on. Posada spent three months in a house on the heach in Zanadu, on the Paci~ic coast in northern

El Sa.l vador. (U) , , '

No o~e qave money to Posada to support him after Ha~enfus was shot down. posada live.d off his sa~inqs at Za~adu~ After that, Posada came back to San salVador and began working for the Salvadoran National,Polioe~ (rr)

After the Hasenfus matter died down a little, Hushes ea~e back to E~ S~lvador and saw Posada. He told Posada he found Cooper's passport an~ Coope~'s ~achirte gun ~ith a silencer at Cooper's girlfriend's housec Hughes gave these things to Posada. posada sent Coc~er·s passport to Quintero. Posada gave the macnine gun to Hermas Rojase

cowrnmATION OF llII'l:ERVIEW OF mSADA

PA.GE aa

,

Rojas was a Venezu,elan friend of Posada .. 'W'ho was living- in El-Salvador working for the Salvadoran National Police. (U)

. ,

. Posada was not invol~ed in getting ~oney to the families of Coopart Buzz· Sawyer or Hasenfus after the crash. Posada was not involved in obtaininq an\attorney or qetting money to an attorney for Has~nfus. Posada doesn1t know anything about getting money or attorneys for the families of Easenfus, Cooper and Sawye~. (U)

POS8Qa'was not in oontact with Ooug Miller conoerning Cooperls funeral expenses. Posada ~as not involved with the funeral expehses of any of the Rasenfus fligbt crew. (U)

After Masenfus went down, Posada called Dutton a faw times and asked for the sa1ary that Was owe~ him. Dutton said al1 the resupply money was frozen and there was nothing he could do for Posaqa~ (U)

A couple of months after Hasenfus went down, Posad~ s~w Quintero and QUintero's wife i~ San ~edro SQla, Hondu~as. QQintero tolQ Posada that Secord was fighting the USG for the money, and if sucoessful, he would pay Posada some. (U)

·After Pos~da was shot in Guatemala, he talKed to Quinte~o and told him he heeded money. QQintero told hi~ to send one of his paintings to Seoord. Posada did so and Seoord sent Posada $lfOOO for it. That's the only payment anyone made to Posada after Hasenfus was shot down. (U)

. Around. the time of the Hasenfus flight,. the Christian Democratio Party in El salvador sent advisors to police agehcies in other countries to invite them to help the salvadoran police get a hold of the political violence taking place.. Eight. cor nine people were sent trom Venezuela to . assist the Salvadorans. ,Posada knaw these people·· from the days when Posada was involveq in police work in Venezuela. These Venezuelans began working with the Salvadoran police Oh the political murders in El salvador. Soon there was negative publicity about Venezuela~s doing more than just advising the police, but actually being pa~ of the investigatioh. Soon the Venezuelans could only aavise the police. Wben Posada moved ~aok to San Salvador after·the

Ha s arif'u.s matter had coole.d down , he beg-an worJcing with the Venezuelans to a.dvise the Salvadoran police on their

~ cOm!NUATION' OF :ntTERVlEW OF POSADA

PAGE II

investigations. Posada was working'out of his house and he kept a very low profile. (U)

Posada ana the Venezue~ans began working as advisors to the Salvadoran polioe and they wera doinq a very good job. Posada was paid $2,000 a month and was given a house, a car, gas and other eXpenses. Soon, however, Posada became too important and began having a higher profile. For example, the Minister of Security started comibg to Posadals house to work on cases with him. President DUarte would call Posada at his house and they began a relationship. Soon, Posada started to -need bodyguards hecause he was becoming known as someone Who Wa~ helping investigate the political murders of the Salvadoran right wing4 Posada soon became too visib~e and ~osaQa didn't like that. That's when posaqa decided to relocate'to Guatemala. (tt)

At the end of 1989, Posada moved to Guatem~la and began working for GUATEL1 the Guatema~an telephone company_ ,Posada was paid $75,000 ~ year. However, during this period, there were also a ~ew PQlitical assassinations in Guatem~la. vincio Cerezo, the President of Guatemala, asked ~osada to hel~ $olve these a~sasslnations~ Cerezo asked Posada to do this in a big meeting which inclUded the Minister of Justioe and others. cer~zo was the only one who wanted posada to get involved in this, all of the other Guatemalan Government offic1als at the ~eeting were against it. Posa~a told Cerezo that it couldn't be done, that he just couldn't do it like James Bond does in the movies~ He told Cerezo that ~t would take· time anq money to train people, to set QP iniormqpts, surveillanoe, search teams and all of that needed for prot~ssional police work. Cerezo said okay, but ,he later said he wanted to talk to Posada alone ab'oirt; this and he didn't 'Want others involved. Cerezo then told Posada, "Let's do something, even if' it doesn't bear fruit." Th,e others lTI the Guatema~an Government started believing Posada was working directly for the President. Therefore, Posada couldn't get a~ything done beoause they would obstruct him. That's why the Minister of Defense said Posada was working directly fo~ the Pre~ident when the press asked questions about Posada after he was attaoked. other Guatemalan officials Were against the idea of PO$ada working exclusively for the Presid~nt and this put Posada in an awkWard

position. (U)

~-.

PAGE 1.Q

After a short period in GUatemala, .posada was attacked on the street and shot several times. Posada was taken to a private c~inic and given medical care, all' uncler the arranq~ents ot Ce~Qzo. Posada told CQrezots aides that he dian' t have tha money to pay for al.l of his expenses ... posada was1:cld the President w~u1.d pay. PosaQa owed $20,000 for his medical expenses -- $10,000 to the Qoctors and $4,000 to the hospital. posada had a friend who was helpin9 him. while he was convalescing from' his wounds. This friend told him that Cerezo would only pay the $4:,000 owed to the hospita~ and not tha $16,000 owed to the doctors. Posada didn't have tha $~6,OOO se he di~n't knew what to do; Soon after, Posada was forced to leave Guatema1a and he re~ocated

to Honduras. (U) .

Later, on a chance meating, Posada ran into Cerezo during an airplane f~ight. pos~da 'asked him about bis medical expense~ and Cerezo's promise to pay. Cerezo told Posada that be had paid the whole $20,000 and he can't . understand why only the hospital expenses were paidA ~osada later foun~ out that hi~ ~rie~d had t~ken the '$16,000. This upsets Posada very much to th2nk a fr~end oo~d staal from him when he was laying in a hasp~tal bed, but that's what happened. (U)

Posada WQ~ld like to co~e to the united states event~a~ly.· He is tired and, wants to move on with his lif~. He also misses his f~ily in Miami. (U)

miami dootor bas of£ered to do this operation for free. Posa~a would be willinq to come to Washinqtont·D.C. to meet with the OI9; Whil~ i~ Wasbington, ha would like to get his operation done4 Posada would pre£er coming to WaShington to meet with the o~c and qet bis operation done instead of doing it in Miami. Posada doesn1t want any publicity, whieh would· bappen if he returned to Hi~i. Posada would prefer to ooma to Washington to ~eat with the ore and get his operation, and his wife wo~ld fly Up to meet him$ Posada doesn't want anyone to know of his t;ravel to the United States .. (U)

Posada was not responsihle'for the downing of the CUban airliner, as he was accused~ Posaaa was involved in the armed strug91e against castro, but be was not responsible for blowing up the Cuban airliner in 1976 .. , (U)

A b6

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW Olr POSADA

PAGE n

After talkin'go with SA rost~r about arranging this intQ.rview, Posada recently :we.nt to the local Venezuela,.n Embassy and ;ldentifier1..,himse.1.f to them. He. was told that the Venezuelan Govermnent "does not ha.ve a politioal problemu with Posad~ goinq to th~ United states. (U)

... '

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