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The VR MINI Ultracapacitor Power Supply Follow 0

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By Vinnie Rossi, January 4, 2017 in General Forum
belleson microrendu mini power supply pure-dc-4evr super regulator ultracapacitor vinnie rossi

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Vinnie Rossi Posted January 4, 2017 Report post  #1


Freshman Member
All,

Welcome the to VR MINI general discussion thread!

Last month we began shipping the VR MINI. Here is a link to the MINI page: Vinnie
Rossi MINI PURE DC-4-EVR Power Supply
81 posts

http://www.vinnierossi.com/mini/

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Vinnie

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mozes Posted January 4, 2017 Report post  #2


Everything matters!
Hi Vinnie
I am currently enjoying my MINI with my Brooklyn DAC, it never sounded better. My
question is why don't you make a variable voltage so the customer can select the
voltage depending on the device to be powered by the MINI? Is it cost or
performance related?
Thanks
1686 posts
Moussa

Sent from my X98 Plus II (C2D6) using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Vinnie Rossi Posted January 4, 2017 Report post  #3


Freshman Member
* moussaobeid said:
Hi Vinnie
I am currently enjoying my MINI with my Brooklyn DAC, it never sounded
better.
Hi Moussa,
81 posts

AWESOME - thank you for posting your impressions of the MINI feeding your
Brooklyn dac!

* Quote
My question is why don't you make a variable voltage so the customer can
select the voltage depending on the device to be powered by the MINI? Is it
cost or performance related?

Excellent question! There are mainly two reasons why I did not make the voltage on
the MINIuser adjustable:

Brian Lowe at Belleson ran various tests and determined at the noise performance
of the SPVR-X was not as good with an adjustable implementation. This was
because adding switches (or a potentiometer) increased the trace lengths and
degraded the quality of his patented super regulator design. Nothing performed
better than a high quality, fixed resistor directly on the SPVR-X regulator board -
where the circuit path of the regulator is just a few mm long instead of a few cm
long. It makes a big difference when you are dealing with this level of low noise.

Best regards,

Vinnie

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mozes Posted January 5, 2017 Report post  #4


Everything matters!

Thanks Vinnie for your detailed and informative answer as usual! So let it be fixed
voltage then
1686 posts Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

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Duke40 Posted March 15, 2017 Report post  #5


.
Just placed an order for a 19V MINI for my Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/Headamp.
(Higher voltage MINI's in the 15 to 24 Vdc range are now available to be ordered).

Already have a 12V MINI from Vinnie Rossi, for my Auralic Aries and I am pleased
with the performance improvement, so really look forward to the 19V MINI arriving.

230 posts
My headphone rig will then be totally "off-grid", isolated from the AC mains.

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Power & Tweaks : Heaps of Balanced & Isolation Power supplies, Dedicated Line, Vinnie Rossi MINI
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jtwrace Posted March 15, 2017 Report post  #6


Senior Member
* Duke40 said:
Just placed an order for a 19V MINI for my Auralic Gemini 2000
DAC/Headamp.
(Higher voltage MINI's in the 15 to 24 Vdc range are now available to be
ordered).
3910 posts

Read more !

That should be stellar! I have my Gemini 2000 sitting in the closet somewhere.
Thanks for the reminder. lol

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Vinnie Rossi Posted March 16, 2017 Report post  #7


Freshman Member
* Duke40 said:
Just placed an order for a 19V MINI for my Auralic Gemini 2000
DAC/Headamp.
(Higher voltage MINI's in the 15 to 24 Vdc range are now available to be
ordered).
81 posts
Already have a 12V MINI from Vinnie Rossi, for my Auralic Aries and I am
pleased with the performance improvement, so really look forward to the 19V
MINI arriving.
My headphone rig will then be totally "off-grid", isolated from the AC mains.

Hi Duke,

Thank you for your post!


Vinnie

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Vinnie Rossi Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Report post  #8


Freshman Member
* Quote
Special pre-order price of $1095 until the end of this month. Then the
regular price will be $1295.

All,
81 posts

Just a reminder that the pre-order pricing for the 15 - 24Vdc VR MINI power supply
ends this Friday, March 31st.
We've been building away and have all parts in stock. Current lead time is within 2
weeks.

http://www.vinnierossi.com/mini/

Best regards,

Vinnie
Edited March 28, 2017 by Vinnie Rossi

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Duke40 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Report post  #9


.
Hi Vinnie,

The 19V VR MINI arrived (very well packed for shipping) and I'm very pleased with
the performance improvement.
I now have my headphone rig completely isolated from AC without needing any
fancy audiophile power cords or power conditioning like isolation
230 posts
transformers/balanced power supplies.
I am now able to lower the volume a bit further when I listen to music (the details
still come thru).
More clarity. Oh, Micro-dynamics improved as well.
Rather than dissect & analyse the music too much using audiophile terminology,
one of the best tests I use with new gear/tweaks is ... how long do I actually listen
to music. That is, if listening time increase, then it is more fatigue free. My listening
sessions have increased in length, so it is a winner.

On the back of my 19V VR MINI power supply, between the heatsink and the IEC
ac input, is a silver thread and nut. Is this some sort of grounding post, or does it
fulfil another purpose ?

On my 12V VR MINI, it is absent. Just curious of its purpose. Thanks.

John
Edited April 13, 2017 by Duke40
too many typo's

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Headphone : Auralic Aries > Auralic Gemini 2000 > Audeze LCD-X
Power & Tweaks : Heaps of Balanced & Isolation Power supplies, Dedicated Line, Vinnie Rossi MINI
PURE-DC-4EVR, HD-Plex LPSU, iFi Audio DC iPurifiers, DIY Resonance/Vibration platforms using
Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Pods

Vinnie Rossi Posted April 14, 2017 Report post  #10


Freshman Member
Hi John,

Many thanks for your post!

This thread on the Vinnie Rossi forum (Audiocircle) was also posted about the 24V
MINI:
81 posts
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148925.0

* Quote
On the back of my 19V VR MINI power supply, between the heatsink and the
IEC ac input, is a silver thread and nut. Is this some sort of grounding post,
or does it fulfil another purpose ?

Yes, it connects to earth ground (3rd prong of the power cord) - just in case
someone is using it with a phonostage or equipment that is connected to other
non-isolated equipment that is picking up hum.

Enjoy it!

Vinnie

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flkin Posted June 29, 2017 Report post  #11


Always a Newbie
Hi Vinnie,

F Any chance you can add a variable DC voltage that is user switchable to the Mini?
For overseas users it's simply too difficult to ship back to you for voltage
adjustments from time to time not the mention the costs of doing so.

409 posts
Thanks, Kin, Thailand

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Vinnie Rossi Posted June 29, 2017 Report post  #12


Freshman Member
Hi Kin,

Brian from Belleson has tested the custom Belleson super-regulator that we use
for the output of the VR MINI,
and confirmed that when a switch (or variable resistor) is used to allow for voltage
adjustment, the is always a
81 posts
noise penalty associated with it.

I decided that added noise penalty would take away from the VR MINI's
competitive advantage over all other power supplies in its voltage/power range, so I
will not be offering it.

Thank you for your understanding,

Vinnie

1
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sgr Posted July 31, 2017 Report post  #13


Sophomore Member
Hi Vinie,

Do you think the Mini could power the Legacy Audio WaVelet?
It is a preamp, DAC, crossover, and DSP and it controls my Legacy V speakers.

Here re are the specs:


188 posts

115V AC input Detachable cord


Compatible 115-220V inpuT
12.83V minimum,13.68V (Bill: please confirm
this still works for Wavelet)
5-Amp minimum
60 Watt minimum
Black case

Thanks,
steven

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Vinnie Rossi Posted July 31, 2017 Report post  #14


Freshman Member
* On 7/31/2017 at 2:13 AM, sgr said: ,

Hi Vinie,

Do you think the Mini could power the Legacy Audio WaVelet?
It is a preamp, DAC, crossover, and DSP and it controls my Legacy V
81 posts
speakers.
Read more !
Hi Steven,
The VR MINI has a max continous output current rating of 2.5A. It looks ike your
product requires at least 5A, so it will not do the trick.

Best regards,

Vinnie

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agladstone Posted August 9, 2017 Report post  #15


Senior Member
* On 1/4/2017 at 12:20 PM, mozes said: ,

Hi Vinnie
I am currently enjoying my MINI with my Brooklyn DAC, it never sounded
better. My question is why don't you make a variable voltage so the customer
can select the voltage depending on the device to be powered by the MINI? Is
673 posts
it cost or performance related?
Read more !
@mozes how is the mini performing with the Brooklyn? I see that you're using it
tonpower the Brooklyn. On paper, it seems that the 2.5A output is lower than what
Mytek recommends?
What other power supplies have you tried and how does the Mini compare to them
in regards to sound quality?

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mozes Posted August 9, 2017 Report post  #16


Everything matters!
* On 8/9/2017 at 1:11 AM, agladstone said: ,

@mozes how is the mini performing with the Brooklyn? I see that you're
using it tonpower the Brooklyn. On paper, it seems that the 2.5A output is
lower than what Mytek recommends?
What other power supplies have you tried and how does the Mini compare to
1686 posts
them in regards to sound quality?
The VR mini is the best PSU I tried on my Brooklyn. It is better than the JS-2 that I
had before. The Brooklyn doesn't need a lot of juice as the VR is never even warm.
I don't use the headphone amp btw.

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agladstone Posted August 9, 2017 Report post  #17


Senior Member
@mozes Thank You!!
Ive actually been considering upgrading from my current HDPlex 100w to the JS-2!
I just stumbled upon your post here about using the Mini (I had thought the Mini did
not have enough amperage to drive the Brooklyn, so I did not even realize it was an
option)!
It seems within the same general price range as the JS-2 and I'm enjoying the LPS-
673 posts
1 so
much with the ISO Regen, so it makes sense that the Mini (which has similar
technology as LPS-1) would be the best choice for the Brooklyn!

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agladstone Posted August 9, 2017 Report post  #18
Senior Member
@mozes Another question, what are you using as a DC power cable between the
Mini and The Brooklyn? I have a star quad Canare 4S6 w/ oyiade connectors that
was custom made between the Brooklyn and the HDPlex 100 now, could I just
remove one end and either use bare wires into the mini banana / spade connectors
or even use screw on speaker banana or spade terminals on the mini end, or
should I have another custom Canare D.C. Cable made with spades on one end ?
673 posts

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sefischer1 Posted December 21, 2017 Report post  #19


Newbie
Hi Vinnie,

S I obtained a 12V unit from you for use with a Nagra VPS phono stage. I've tried the
Nagra supply, paralleled 12V 6000mAH Li-Ion battery packs, and now your supply.
Unexpectedly, the Li-Ion battery pack results in a much less detailed, comparatively

30 posts
warm sound quality. Your supply results in a complete lack of low-frequency noise
compared to the Nagra supply. I suspect that the output impedance of your supply
is much lower than the Li-Ion battery pak and this may cause some interaction with
the Nagra's internal voltage stepup circuitry. Any thoughts?

I'm curious, with a 12V .6A load, how often will the VR Mini need to transition
between the internal banks and is the AC line isolation mechanical or electrical?

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esldude Posted December 21, 2017 Report post  #20


Masters Level Member
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/vinnie-rossi-
ultracapacitor-power-supply-review-and-comparison-to-uptone-lps-1.1853/

Some good independent information on the Vini supply.

11393 posts
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And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a + !
normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it
is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality.

Vinnie Rossi Posted December 21, 2017 Report post  #21


Freshman Member
Hi sefischer1,
I'm not sure if the 12V, 6000mAH Li-ion pack you were using has an output
regulator or not?

If it was just a battery pack w/o output regulator, be careful because the starting
voltage will probably be > 12V and the shut off voltage will probably be < 12V. I'm
81 posts
not sure if the Nagra VPS is ok with this.

If the battery pack has an output regulator that follows it, is it a switching regulator
or linear regulator?

Your VR MINI uses a 12V, linear, Belleson Super-Regulator. See:


https://www.belleson.com/store/SPZ-High-Current

It not only might be cleaner, but it could have a lower output impedance over a
wider frequency range compared
to what you were using.

As far as timing between bank switching, I would need to time it with a 0.6A load. I
would think it would be
>10 seconds between switching banks, but would need to verify.

Regarding the link that esldude points to:

Yes, the AC live goes through the transformer (but the transformer is just in series,
just like an inductor), before going to the SMPS charging supply, which then feeds
a linear current regulator on the board above it that provides constant current
charging to the two ultrcacap banks on that board, which then feed the linear
Belleson super-regulator on the output side, and then to the output jacks.

Initially, the large transformer inside was to be used as a step-down, but with the
first small batch of supplies some customers were finding them to be mechanically
loud, in terms of hum/buzz (I didn't have this issue on my bench when we tested
them before shipping, so I think they were sensitive to noise/harmonics on the AC
line in some homes). So now you can't think of it as a step-down transformer.

I am aware of Amir and his post on ASR forum. I've spoken direclty to him about
it. Even with the very small amount of AC leakage via the SMPS charger, the DC
output is very clean. The worst is -115dB at 60Hz (this is only about 20uV at 60Hz
for the 12Vdc output. At higher frequencies, the output is better than -126dB.
That's noise... not a measurement of output impedance vs. frequency.

There have been articles written about the AC leakage via the small Y-caps in a
SMPS. Again, its very low (about 20uV), but it is common-mode and the Belleson
will not filter it, and it does creep base the bank switching MOSFETs in the mini.

You'll find on the Uptone forum (regarding their LPS-1 and its SMPS charger) a
suggestion by John Swenson to Earth Ground the DC output (-) terminal, thus
shunting any SMPS leakage to GND. You can also try this with the MINI, but it
could cause a ground loop with your other equipment.

But can you even notice the 20uV of noise? Not sure what the SNR of your gear is,
so I don't want to speculate yes or no.

The important thing to note is that the VR MINI's 12Vdc output is very clean over a
wide freq. range, as is load regulation and output impedance (specs are on the
Belleson website).

* Quote
Your supply results in a complete lack of low-frequency noise compared to
the Nagra supply. I suspect that the output impedance of your supply is much
lower than the Li-Ion battery pak and this may cause some interaction with
the Nagra's internal voltage stepup circuitry. Any thoughts?

Glad to hear - it sounds like it is doing what it is meant to do then!

Thank you for your post,

Vinnie

1
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Vinnie Rossi Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Report post  #22
Freshman Member
*
Edited December 21, 2017 by Vinnie Rossi
duplicate post

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sefischer1 Posted December 21, 2017 Report post  #23


Newbie
Vinnie

S I understand from your comments that the SMPS is driving the constant current
source used to charge the bank. This implies that the other bank is disconnected
(via MOSFET switch I assume) while delivering voltage to the output.

30 posts
Does this mean that the small AC leakage results from RC coupling between the
charging and supplying banks, such coupling resulting from proximity and finite
MOS switch open resistance?

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Vinnie Rossi Posted December 21, 2017 Report post  #24


Freshman Member
Hi sefischer1,

* Quote
I understand from your comments that the SMPS is driving the constant
current source used to charge the bank. This implies that the other bank is
81 posts
disconnected (via MOSFET switch I assume) while delivering voltage to the
output.

Correct, the bank in use (not the one that is charging) is disconnected via the
MOSFET switches.

* Quote
Does this mean that the small AC leakage results from RC coupling between
the charging and supplying banks, such coupling resulting from proximity and
finite MOS switch open resistance?

The AC leakage current comes from the Y-caps used inside the charging supply. It
gets coupled onto the DC output as common mode noise, and a very small amount
of it even leaks through the MOSFET switches because a MOSFET is not a perfect
switch in that there are still internal capacitances and resistances between its 3
terminals.

So instead of getting something like -126dB (or better) across the entire band from
0Hz to > 100kHz, there is the AC leakage that shows at 60Hz (or 50hz, depending
on where you live) at around -115dB (which is about 20 microvolt of noise per 12V
output. Again, very, very little, but noted), and less of it at harmonics of 50 or 60Hz.
So it is a very quiet supply, and other parameters such as output impedance vs.
frequency are not affected, (but are also very important, as audio equipment is
rarely acts as a constant-current DC load because the DC current drawn can
change over time, even very briefly, and the power supply needs to be able to cope
with this).

Best regards,

Vinnie