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Free Minds » General Issues / Questions » General Issues / Questions (Moderators: TheNabi, Wakas, savage_carrot, Nadeem, C avemanDoctor, Samia, Jack) » Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked

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antibhondo Beginner/Inquirer Posts: 48

Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « on: January 06, 2011, 01:00:46 PM » This Post is about the alleged confession of Imam Razi, as presented by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed in at least two of his books [The Criminals of Islam, Islam - The True History and False Beliefs]. I don't know about the authenticity of the alleged confessions of other Imams, but I know specifically about that of Imam Razi, that this is quite a false accusation. __________________________________________________________________ Dr. Shabbir Ahmed wrote: After writing his 300 volumes, the great and authoritative Imam confesses: "All my intellectual and supposedly logical statements in the explanation of the Quran turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Quran done by the so-called Imams (Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari, Muslim etc) are misguided and misleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. Our souls were polluted by our physical desires. All our endeavors and works of this world promise to bring upon us nothing but eternal humiliation, torture and doom. • (Hadith-Ul-Qur’an by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi, 1954 edition p190) __________________________________________________________________ The first Confusion:
Quote All the ex planations of the Q uran done by the so-called Im am s (Tabari, Zam ak hshari, Ibne Kathir, Buk hari, Muslim etc) are m isguided and m isleading.

After recovering the first shock, my first confusion was with the names in the bracket. One of the names is Ibne Kathir. OMG! Ibne Kathir's life span is 1301-1373 CE, whereas Imam Razi's 1150-1209 CE!!! How was it possible for Imam Razi to know the name of Ibne Kathir? ___________________________________________________________________ The Reference book is available on the Internet: So, the doubt against the writings of Dr. Shabbir Ahmed began to rise. Then I started searching for the reference he provided and found the Book! So, Let us check that Book: The original urdu book Hadith-Ul-Qur’an by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi is available in the following link: http://www.aboutquran.com/ba/bio/InayatullahKhan/Inayatullah.Khan_HadisalQuran.pdf Only the page-190 can be downloaded from this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/46425814 __________________________________________________________________________________ A discussion on the reference: Yes, there is something from which Dr. Shabbir has written this "CONFESSION" thing! It is a poem of Imam Razi. The poem was partially translated in Urdu by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi in the mentioned page, and before and after his urdu translation, he clearly stated (two times) that the portion he mentioned (in Urdu) was stated in the following poem: ‫ﻧﮫﺎﻳﺔ إﻗﺪام اﻟﻌﻘﻮل ﻋﻘﺎل ... وأﻛﺜﺮ ﺳﻌﻲ اﻟﻌﺎﻟﻤﯿﻦ ﺿﻼل‬ ‫وأرواﺣﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ وﺣﺸﺔ ﻣﻦ ﺟﺴﻮﻣﻨﺎ ... وﺣﺎﺻﻞ دﻧﯿﺎﻧﺎ أذى ووﺑﺎل‬ ‫وﻟﻢ ﻧﺴﺘﻔﺪ ﻣﻦ ﺑﺤﺜﻨﺎ ﻃﻮل ﻋﻤﺮﻧﺎ ... ﺳﻮى أﻧﻢ ﺟﻤﻌﻨﺎ ﻓﯿﻪ ﻗﯿﻞ وﻗﺎﻟﻮا‬ ‫وﻟﻢ ﻗﺪ رأﻳﻨﺎ ﻣﻦ رﺟﺎل ودوﻟﺔ ... ﻓﺒﺎدوا ﺟﻤﯿﻌﺎ ﻣﺴﺮﻋﯿﻦ وزاﻟﻮا‬ ‫وﻛﻢ ﻣﻦ ﺟﺒﺎل ﻗﺪ ﻋﻠﺖ ﺷﺮﻓﺎﺗﮫﺎ ... رﺟﺎل ﻓﺰاﻟﻮا واﻟﺠﺒﺎل ﺟﺒﺎل‬ The meaning of the poem is: Link: http://www.thefullwiki.org/Fakhr_al-Din_al-Razi The daring of minds ends in shackles, Most of mankind's undertakings are folly. Our souls are indifferent to what our bodies do, And the sum of our lives is affliction and harm. We did not benefit from our lifelong search Except in collecting what these said, and those. Atop many a mountain men have triumphed And gone, while the mountains remained. How many men and states have we seen, Goaded to disappear one and all. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ My comment about the Translation of the poem: This poem is very much famous. You just copy any sentence of the arabic poem, or english translation, google with that, you will get many links.

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I think The bold portion should have been at last. ____________________________________________________________________________________

However, another translation is available in the Internet. The link is: http://books.google.com/books? id=Y7JInpQL0x8C&pg=PA381&lpg=PA381&dq=%22Our+souls+fear+our+bodies%22&source=bl&ots=kYWKq_92Rl&sig=BR6rW3 Our souls fear our bodies as if they want to separate from them. The result of our life in this world has been nothing but pain to others and sin. For all the discussions and debates of our life We have derived no benefit but senseless noise. How often have we seen men and kingdoms All perish quickly and cease to exist! How was their glory once more exalted than a mountain, Yet, men perish and the mountain remains the same! ________________________________________________________________________________ A comment from the book containing the translation: The name of the Book: Biographical encyclopaedia of Sufis: Central Asia and Middle East By N. Hanif, Page:381 In this book, just before mentioning the translation of the poem, the writer wrote: There is a poem of Imam Razi which is in itself almost sufficient evidence for his Sufism. In the original Arabic it is so beautiful and effective that hardly any of his biographers has failed to mention it. Written in old age by a man who was the leading scholar and theologian of his day and who enjoyed all the comfort and glory of the life of this world, it is a vivid reminder that beyond the sphere of all human life and knowledge there is another reality which man must seek in order to remain faithful to his own intimate nature. The poem begins with these verses:....(Then the poem starts) _________________________________________________________________________________ No word for Explanation of Quran in this poem: If a reader is aware, he/she can easily understand that there is nothing, said about "explanation of Quran" in the poem. Very interestingly, Allama Mashriqi mistranslated the poem using the words in the translation using the phrase "explanation of the Quran". Allama Mashriqi's translation has almost taken place in the translation of Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. "Almost"...because In his english translation of Allama Mashriqi's Urdu translation, Dr. Shabbir inserted some words which were said by neither Allama Mashriqi nor Imam Razi. In the following para of the translated portion of Dr. Shabbir (translated from Mashriqi's), is presented with the inserted (by Dr. Shabbir) words red marked: __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Checking the "insertion by Dr. Shabbir": After writing his 300 volumes, the great and authoritative Imam confesses: "All my intellectual and supposedly logical statements in the explanation of the Qur’an turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Qur’an done by the so-called Imams* (Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari, Muslim etc) are misguided and misleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. Our souls were polluted by our physical desires. Our efforts of this world promise to bring us nothing but torture and doom." ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Please note that: The red-marked words are inserted totally by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. These words were stated neither by Imam Razi nor by Allama Mashriqi. But Dr. Shabbir inserted the words in the name of Imam Razi, with reference of Allama Inayatullah. And This man calls other "CRIMINAL"! ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ *Here in the poem, Allama Mashriqi actually mistranslated the word Alamin/Alimin. He thought of the word as Alimin and translated as Imam (religious Alim). But if one reads the last four lines of the poem, he/she can easily understand that this meaning of the word "Alim" (even if the word is alimin) can only be "learned ones", not "a religious Alim". The last four lines: How often have we seen men and kingdoms All perish quickly and cease to exist! How was their glory once more exalted than a mountain, Yet, men perish and the mountain remains the same! ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The most Interest Thing: The most interesting thing happened when I personally mailed Dr. Shabbir Ahmed, and informed the gross mistakes he made, then he, in the reply, wrote me that "I have Allama Mashriqi's book in Urdu. The late great scholar does not mention that he translated a poem by Imam Razi" But, the fact is that Allama Inayatullah Mashriqi has clearly stated (anyone can download the book or only the page from the mentioned link, and see by herself/himself) that all that he has written in the name of Imam Razi was stated in the "following poem". And then he mentioned the original Arabic poem. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ So, Now the most important Question is: So, the most important question now is: Doesn't he understand Urdu? Or, has he himself never seen this book at all!!! ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The confusion is: Most of the the books referred by this Dr. Shabbir Ahmed while speaking ill of the honorable Ulama of Islam (naming them CRIMINALS!!!) are not actually available. This Alama Mashriqi's life span was 1888-1963. So, there was a possibility that even this book (Hadisal Quran) might not have been available. Let alone any book of Imam Razi that contains the referenced poem.

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Did Dr. Shabbir Ahmed try to take that chance? The other books that are not available....what about those? Are they also references like this? « Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 02:22:37 PM by antibhondo » san Advanced Truth Seeker Gender: Posts: 1275 Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 01:45:09 PM » You may want to contact the person and address this matter directly (giving him a fair chance to defend himself) and then share with us how your correspondence with him goes. I'm 100% sure you're not the first person to disagree with his presentation on any subject. Personally i'd be interested in how he would respond to you re: this. Logged

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True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

antibhondo Beginner/Inquirer Posts: 48

Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 02:01:41 PM »
Quote from: san on January 06, 2011, 01:45:09 PM You m ay want to contact the person and address this m atter directly (giving him a fair chance to defend him self ) and then share with us how your correspondence with him goes. I'm 100% sure you're not the first person to disagree with his presentation on any subject. Personally i'd be interested in how he would respond to you re: this.

Brother San, Assalamu Alaikum. I have had several correspondences with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. Probably you have missed the following portion:
Quote The most Interest Thing: The m ost interesting thing happened when I personally m ailed Dr. Shabbir Ahm ed, and inform ed the gross m istak es he m ade, then he, in the reply, wrote m e that "I have A llama Mashriqi's book in Urdu. The late great scholar does not mention that he translated a poem by Imam Razi" But, the fact is that Allam a Inayatullah Mashriqi has clearly stated (anyone can download the book or only the page from the m entioned link , and see by herself/him self ) that all that he has written in the name of Imam Razi was stated in the "following poem ". And then he m entioned the original Arabic poem .

« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 02:24:13 PM by antibhondo » san Advanced Truth Seeker Gender: Posts: 1275 Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 02:57:21 PM »

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Right.. i missed. sorry 'bout that. i'm really pushing my eyes right now. Then did you receive any reply regarding any of your consequent questions? Logged

True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

loxbox13 Apprentice Posts: 418

Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 03:27:08 PM » There are 3 people called Ibn Kathir one the earliest is the less known, he is in the chains of narrations of some hadith One did the tafssir of the quran another one is a scholar in the 13th century Logged

antibhondo Beginner/Inquirer Posts: 48

Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 10:25:33 PM »
Quote from: san on January 06, 2011, 02:57:21 PM Right.. i m issed. sorry 'bout that. i'm really pushing m y eyes right now. Then did you receive any reply regarding any of your consequent questions?

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I wrote him then that
Quote >>>I have Allam a Mashriqi's book in Urdu. The late great scholar does not m ention that he translated a poem by Im am Razi. Dear Brother Assalam u Alaik um . I do not k now why you said this. Just before the poem m entioned in Arabic, Allam a Inayatullah did clearly m ention that. Please tak e a close look .

After my mail, I have received no reply. When this comment {{The late great scholar does not mention that he translated a poem by Imam Razi.}} was proved to me an obvious lie, I decided to post this article. Thank you. « Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 10:55:25 PM by antibhondo » antibhondo Beginner/Inquirer Posts: 48 Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 10:37:49 PM »
Quote from: loxbox13 on January 06, 2011, 03:27:08 PM There are 3 people called Ibn Kathir one the earliest is the less k nown, he is in the chains of narrations of som e hadith O ne did the tafssir of the quran another one is a scholar in the 13th century

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Brother loxbox13 Assalamu Alaikum. Thank you for the information. But can you give me any reference for that? However, but the problem is that Imam Razi did not actually mentioned the names. Allama Inayatullah Mashriqi inserted himself some words in his Urdu translation in the name of Imam Razi that were not said or meant by Imam Razi. Even this Allama Mashriqi did not mentioned the names. Carefully observe the related portion of the article:
Quote Quote All the ex planations of the Q ur’an done by the so-called Im am s* (Tabari, Zam ak hshari, Ibne Kathir, Buk hari, Muslim etc) are m isguided and m isleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. The red-m ark ed words are inserted totally by Dr. Shabbir Ahm ed. These words were stated neither by Imam Razi nor by A llama Mashriqi. But Dr. Shabbir inserted the words in the nam e of Im am Razi, with reference of Allam a Inayatullah. A nd This man calls other "CRIMINA L"!

« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:06:04 PM by antibhondo » san Advanced Truth Seeker Gender: Posts: 1275 Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 10:50:48 PM »
Quote from: antibhondo on January 06, 2011, 10:25:33 PM I wrote him then that After that I have received no reply. Thank you.

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OK. Thanks. Logged

True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

antibhondo Beginner/Inquirer Posts: 48

Re: Dr. Shabbir's Reference: when one is checked « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 02:30:53 AM »

So, Dr. Sabbir Ahmed or any of his supporters has no answers. It is to inform the members of this forum that I have not received any reply through email or any media else from Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. Logged
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