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December 30, 2010
Ellipses indicate undecipherable content. Link to audio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow/2010/12/31/the-andrea-shea-king-show.mp3 Intro ends at 45 seconds. Andrea Shea King (ASK) is the host. After preliminary intro waffle, she plays some audio from a Peter Boyle show. 1.13 PB clip commences: Barack Obama has lived almost 50 years without leaving any footprints, none, there is no Obama documentation, there's no bona-fides, there's no paper trail, there's nothing. The original so called vault copy birth certificate's never been released; Lawyer's fees are estimated about $200,000 on this. A birth certificate is about 15 bucks. The certification of live birth that has been released is counterfeited, it's amended. The certification of live birth was released that's also counterfeited and amendment (yes he does repeat this as though it's two documents) 1.47: Obama - Dunham marriage license doesn't even exist. Obama. Dunham divorce decree was released but it's laughable because they were never married. How can you divorce someone you never married? Noelani Kindergarden records, suppressed, Soetero-Dunham marriage license has never been released, Soetoro adoption records have not been released, Franciscus Assis school application was released by Jerry Corsi, Punahu School applications - missing, Punahu School school records, not released, Noelani 3rd grade records not released but then there's that weird picture. Selective Service registration, Social Security numbers released, State of Connecticut, Occidental College records not released, Financial aid, not released, Passport not released, records were scrubbed by Obama's terrorism, and intelligence advisor, 2.42: Columbia College records not released, Harvard College records not released, Illinois Bar records not released Baptism certificates not released, Medical records not released, and it goes on...hang on...
(Peter Boyle clip ends) 3.11 ASK: now that was Peter Boyles of KHOW. To our regular listeners you might recall that on Tuesday night we played a segment of Peter Boyles show in which he interviewed Dr. Jerry Corsi and about Obama's refusal to release any of his records... (plugs show, welcomes patriots) 3.33 The Us Supreme Court has declined to hear all arguments in a number of cases brought before it on the question of Obama's eligibility to hold the office of President under article 2 section 1 of the U.S constitution. Associate Justice Clarence Thomas admitted in a Congressional hearing earlier this year, that the Supreme Court is, and I quote, evading the issue. Well on the 14th, 15th and 16th of this month December 2010, Retired US Naval Commander Charles Kerchner was an eye witness to a judicial lynching at the trial of a US Army Lt Colonel, who has served for 18 years in uniform as a military physician, a flight surgeon to General George Casey's unit. Lt Colonel Terry Lakin had, in the past, deployed to Afghanistan and Bosnia in a war situation. This month, Lt Col Lakin was found guilty of disobeying orders and missing movement, after he announced last March that he could no longer follow orders because of his doubts about, and lack of evidence, of Obama's Constitutional eligibility to act as Commander in Chief of the US military. 4.53 Lt Col. Lakin's trial took place at Fort Meade in Maryland, and in the view of many, the trial was a sham, a judicial lynching. Lt Col Lakin now sits in a cell at Leavenworth Federal penitentiary, where he was ordered to serve a six month sentence. He's been stripped of his rank, his pay, and his benefits. Commander Kerchner has been a guest on this program several times, along with his attorney, Mario Apuzzo to discuss a lawsuit that they had brought, in which they also demanded that Obama produce proof that he did indeed fulfill the requirements to hold the Office of President. That case, along with every other case that has been brought, seeking the truth about Obama's past, was thrown out without comment. It's been reported that Obama has spent approximately $2 million in legal fees to prevent his records from seeing the light of day. 5.52 Since his lawsuit, Cdr Kechner has turned his attention to Lt Col Lakin's case. Commander Kerchner, a man who takes seriously his oath to defend and protect the Constitution, who walks the talk and puts it all on the line, as has Lt Col Terry Lakin, is with us tonight, to talk about his case, and the travesty of justice that has been perpetrated upon Terry Lakin, and by default, every other service member who is taking orders from a Commander in chief who refuses to prove he is not a usurper. Cdr Kerchner, thanks for joining us again this evening, and welcome to the program. 6:35 CK: Glad to be here ASK: It's nice to have you back again. Cdr K, I thought maybe we could start first with you explaining to our listeners about your case before we move on to that of Lt Col Terry Lakin CK: Well in er humph I've been er watching Obama cracking (or 'tracking'?) the scene and trying to find
out who he is since early 2008 and blogging actively since last week in July 2008 and increasingly, the more I investigate the man the less I knew, er his whole identity is an enigma, but, by January of 2009, seeing that the press didn't vet him, the DNC didn't really vet him, the voters had not had any - the real knowledge about him of course elected him, and the Electoral College - most of them were hamstrung, they had to vote the way the popular vote was, they didn't vet him, the Joint session of Congress didn't vet him. I had written dozens and dozens and dozens of letters to various Senators and Representatives asking them to investigate, wrote to the President, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Vice President, none of them even answered my letters, so at that point I, I just felt that I had to do something, I just couldn't go, keep just sitting by and do nothing, and I decided to bring a lawsuit, er after the Joint Session confirmed him, and before he was sworn in, and I looked for an attorney and found Mario Apuzzo and retained him, he worked on a pro bono basis, and I found some other, through the help of some volunteers, some other co-plaintiffs, and we brought the lawsuit in January 2009 and the last 22 23 months it's worked its way through the court system and at every level of the court system they er they, they declined to hear the case on the basis of standing and no citizen has the right under the Constitution even the 9th Amendment to defend the Constitution in other words we're supposed to have unalienable rights, er, due process, and er the rights of equal protection clause they investigated McCain (as to the?) question of citizenship but they didn't investigate Obama I (unclear) I also sued Congress, by the way, and er Nancy Pelosi, and Dick Cheney because they, they fraudulently and illegally handled the Joint Session 9.12 not calling for the objections from each and every State, there are numerous charges but anyway it finally worked its way up to the Supreme Court in September 2010 and er my petition was sent to them on the 30th of September and er, they just denied to hear it, no comment. They, you know, and we had asked that the two Supreme Court Justices Kagan and Sotomayor recuse themselves because an obvious conflict of interest, not even the appearance of a conflict of interest because their very jobs depended on the legitimacy of the President er the Putative President Obama, to make the appointments and er their salary their whole career their whole livelihood on that Bench was on the line with my case, so...they should have recused themselves but they didn't 10.06 and there, er, my, I think there is a reason, and the reason is, was 9 Justices er conferencing on whether to take a petition and go forward to a hearing, you need 4 to move forward and 5 to win in the hearing, and with 7, if those 2 had recused themselves, you only needed 3 to move forward, you know, one less than the majority, and 4 to win the case and... ASK: Huhmmm CK: and I think they didn't recuse themselves because they knew, or suspected, that there could be three Justices that would have voted to take my petition and and grant a hearing on it, so to guaruntee it was, er was, er didn't get out of Conference, I believe they voted to, to be in there to make sure it didn't get out of conference by requiring the rule of 4 instead of the rule of 3, and also to be able to argue against taking it in conference because conferences are held in secret so we'll never know 11.02 but they should have recused themselves. In that case immediately before mine on the orders list and immediately after mine... Kagan recused themselves in one of 'em and Sotomayor in the other, so, and if the orders list was full of recusals by those two, because they have many, many conflicts, er, and in my case they didn't, they didn't recuse themselves and they should have, they had a direct, er, we
cited the regulations in the Federal Court system that deal with ethics and recusals and they clearly should have recused themselves, but they chose not to, they chose the unethical er stand to, to vote and hear this in conference and, and obviously I don't know if they voted against it or not 'cause it's all secret but it didn't get 4 votes to go forward and I'm sure those two didn't, didn't vote to hear the case, I mean, (small laugh), obviously..I er (ASK tries to interject - unclear as they talk over each other) 12.05 ASK: It certainly seems that they gave themselves an excuse by er, not recusing themselves at that point (unclear as CK interrupts) CK: If the case was (clearly?) a loser or a dog of a case, why would you put your ethical reputation on the line and not recuse yourself? They..I believe that ...the talk around the Supreme Court has been for a long time, there has just been two or three Justices that wanted to take the cases but never could get 4. Now here is a case where it's 7, they only needed 3, so I believe they knew this and that and that they didn't recuse themselves because they knew they had to keep the rule of 4 in play and not let it slip to rule of 3 ASK: Huhmmm. What do you make of Associate Justice Clarence Thomas stating in a er, earlier this year in a Congressional Hearing that the Supreme Court is evading the issue? 12.54 CK: Well, I believe that that means, that in some of these conferences and some of the prior cases...er which if you could be a fly on the wall in there, you would have heard them arguing, a few of them arguing, or two or three of them arguing, to take this case, this is a Constitutional issue and we, we've got to decide it, but they never could get the 4, see, ASK:Huhmm CK: So I personally think that Chief Justice Roberts has been the hold out on the er, quote, Conservative, er, side of the court and he's been the one to... ASK: (Interrupts) What makes you think so? What makes you think it's Roberts? 13.30 CK: I, it's just an instinct or a gut feeling, that he's a collegial guy, that er, he's, er, quite friendly to Obama and that, and that, that meeting prior to the, er, er, Inauguration of Obama, when they, or was it right after the Inauguration... the meeting in the conference room there, and, er I think Alito clearly would have been a vote for the constitution here, and I think Thomas was, I think Scalia was too, and I er and I, if I had to pick of where i was gonna get the 3 votes for sure it would be, I would be picking Alito, Thomas and Scalia and Roberts is just a question mark in my mind and I think he's always been the holdout on the 4th vote, 14.22 now with 7 there you only need 3 and I think that's why the other two Justices appointed by Obama didn't recuse themselves, if they knew the case was going to go down cause they couldn't, couldn't get 4, I'm sorry couldn't get 3 rather, they they wouldn't have bothered to hear the, to stay in the conference, they would have recused themselves. It's just, if you look at the rules of the court, there's a reason they chose to take the unethical posture of not recusing themselves, there had to be a reason, and I think the reason was, the law clerks talked to each other in the Supreme Court, and I think that the word got around that there was 3 Justices leaning to vote for this petition of Kerchner Vs Obama and Congress. Why else would two Justices sully their reputation with an obvious conflict of interest and not recuse themselves if they, if they were not needed for, to defeat the case in
conference? 15.22 ASK: And you went in there very confident. You and your attorney, Mario Apuzzo went into this very confident that you had a case. You were bringing forward a case..that...with arguments that nobody else had made, and so as a result, you, you felt that, going into it, that you probably had a better chance than anybody had, of er, of getting this case heard, or at least considered, by the er, by the Supreme Court CK: Well, the case was brought at a judicially right time, after the political process was done, that is, the Joint session had confirmed, illegally in my opinion, confirmed the er, Obama, and prior to him being sworn in so we were suing the President Elect, a private person at that point, and we you know, felt the D.O.J shouldn't have been defending him in the first place, he should have been using his private lawyer. He didn't, 16.14 anyway it was filed at a judicially right time, you know, they all were saying before you are suing the Secretary of State, that's a (?) you assume prior (?) the election is over so it's moot he may not win the election, you know or it's not, it's premature he may not win the election and if you sued him after he took office then they would say to you, like they did in one of the Taitz cases, you should have filed this before he was sworn in, so in other words, other people didn't include Congress or they said Congress is the culprit here, when Congress is not before us, so we, we had everything covered, in the arguments and we also brought in the fact that McCain was given a Hearing and the er Obama was not, the request (?) of people and that's unequal protection under the law, lack of due process, so, and the fact that I had written all these letters and not received even an answer, 17.12 but we argued this case very well, my attorney was very...very well laid out case, all the way up through the Federal system, we didn't skip any steps. Some other cases skipped the appeal process, the appeals court in the circuit and went directly to the Supreme Court and the Supreme court just threw it right back down and said no, you can't skip the steps. You see, so we did everything right all the way up, and I, in my heart still believed the Supreme Court was not corrupted or rotted from the inside out. I thought if they got the proper case and we gave them the proper case, based on the fact that he, he, he, he was not a natural born citizen because his father was not a US citizen, ASK: Right CK: and we also argued on the fact that he had not conclusively proven he was born in Hawaii, because being born a US citizen is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be a NBC, you have to be born in the country of two US citizens, and his father was not a US citizen, not an immigrant, not even a permanent legal, not even a legal permanent resident of the United States, he didn't even have a green card he was a, he was here on a student visa 18.20 So, I thought that if we got the right case to the SC that we you know would be heard, but I was wrong, and I was particularly encouraged when we believed that the two Justices would recuse themselves and we'd be dealing with 7 and therefore needed only 3 to go forward, but the ethics were thrown aside and the two Justices voted anyway and the rule of 4 has taken place and it's the same old story, in my opinion, looking at all the facts over time, we just cannot get the 4 votes in that, in that SC, because I think Chief Justice Roberts is the holdout on the conservative side.
They are all afraid of the potential for violence if they, if his, if his constitutional eligibility would be vetted, that somehow certain minority groups would riot and cause trouble, and you know, civil unrest. I never believed that. That's, that's an insult to the minorities of this country, that if the constitution was being upheld and the SC said, that he was, and if they vetted him and they said that the definition of a NBC is that both parents had to be citizens and you be born in the country and obviously his father isn't so therefore he's not ineligible, that the rule of the Constitution is the glue that holds this country together, I don't, I believe very few people would have been causing trouble on purpose 19.45 and the rule of law would have applied and instead we have a situation where the rule of law is totally gone, we're not, the, the Constitution has been made meaningless by the SC refusing to do its job and we're headed probably for an even worse situation in this country than, than what would have happened if the rule of law would have been applied early on, you know, why didn't they apply it in the Primary? I mean some people would have been upset if he was disqualified 'cause he, but that's what the constitution eligibility clause is and it should have been applied. ASK: Yeap, Yeah. Now concurrent with your case, your case went to, ah, went to trial, well not trial but went to, before the SC, ah, what month was it? CK: September 30th...2010 and that's when it was submitted, and then it got put on the docket, and then let's see, ...they had 30 days for the other side to reply and they chose not to reply and then on November 22nd in private conference with, there's nobody in, no notes or anything, they decided the case, the petition whether they were going to hear it or not, but we didn't learn until the orders came out on the 29th, and 29th we learned that it was denied with no comment. 21.00 ASK: OK so (they talk over eachother) Pardon me, I'm sorry I didn't hear what you just said. CK: I said it was denied with no comment. They don't have to give a reason they just said denied ASK: Right, right. Well, well concurrent now with that, now was also the trial of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, and er, we know... (CK interrupts) CK: He was inside the military pursuing the same question ASK: Huhmm, and when did you become aware of Commander, er Lt Col Tery Lakin's er, case? CK: I think it was around March that I learned that a doctor in the military was er, a Lt Col and a docter, was questioning the constitutional eligibility. That's March of 2010, questioning the eligibility of the President in that he was frustrated and... unable to get answers and I didn't know all the details of how, how much he was trying to get answers until the actual trial a couple of weeks ago. 22.05 But I did learn that he was frustrated to the point he was going to disobey orders of the 30,000 men slated(?) to go to Afghanistan which comes...to deploy troops in a foreign country, especially in a time of war, the President must sign off on those orders. You know they can move troops around inside the United States all they want, the Pentagon can or whatever, the President doesn't get involved with that, but when you deploy troops to a foreign z..er war zone and like you remember at that speech at West Point the President was talking that he was gonna increase the troops in Afghanistan, that 30,000 men were going to be surged over there, and he signed off on which units would be, would be sent over there and Lt col Lakin was going to be sent over there with one of those units. So this was a direct order
coming down from a, a putative President that Lakin and I too believe was illegal. So, he decided he was not gonna obey that order because his er his, his prime directive was it's important to defend the Constitution, that's his oath and er he didn't believe Obama was legal, under the constitution, and er that therefore the orders he was issuing were were unlawful, 23.08 unlawful as being judged against the Constitution, so I ... (ASK tries to interrupt) I heard about it ASK: And he's not the only military man, active duty, who erm has challenged Obama. I believe, er, Major Stephan Cook was er also one of the military who challenged it. CK: Right ASK: Correct? CK: Correct that was one of the plaintiffs that, er or defendants I guess, that Orly Taitz had, anyway he they, they dealt with him simply by cancelling his orders...and he did also lose his job as a result of that. They used some dirty tricks in the background after he er, they got his orders cancelled they got civilian employer who had contracts with the military and they said well if you keep this guy on your payroll you're not going to get any more contracts 23.59 ASK: Yeeah, yea. Obviously, this is, this is a big, ah, conspiracy, a cabal, to prevent Obama's records from being shown to the American people. (They talk over each other) CK: Let's call it a plan...the conspiracy word is loaded. It's a plan, they have a plan, they had a plan to put this man in office, er it's been in the works for many many years and it's planned to keep him there and he's not legally eligible for the Office. ASK: Um. When you found out about Lt Col Lakin, erm, and your case was er, dismissed, erm how did you get involved with Lt Col Lakin's case? CK: Well, I was, I had my own case and I was 110% involved with that, and I wasn't paying a lot of attention to his case, other than just following it in the news.
I had deliberately tried to stay out of other cases, er on purpose. 25:00 It was a tactical strategic decision of mine, to, to prosecute my case, and stay, stay out of the other cases. but after my case lost, er, I, I guess I gotta go back to the original beginning - I, I felt called to bring forward my lawsuit. I felt, I was like, in turmoil for 2 weeks before I did it, because I felt I was being called to do this. You know, someone's got to do something, you just can't let, all the other cases have gone down the drain, and someone's gotta step forward, and when I filed it, after that, all that torment went away, I felt at peace that I was doing something, and again after my case was denied, and I saw Lt Col Lakin going to Court Martial down there, I just felt like a, er, a fellow soldier...rhetorically - I was in the Navy - er, he was a soldier, er, I just felt, again, called, that I had to go down there, and do, and do my best to try and help him.
26.06 So, that's what I did. When my case was denied, I, let him know that I, I would be available to (advise?) I never spoke to him directly, I never met him until I got down to the CM, but, that I would be willing to come down and do what I can to speak out to help him ASK: H hmmm h hmmm CK: That's what I did, I, I, I, er a friend of mine er helped do the driving and we drove down to Fort Meade and er to observe and also to speak out if the opportunity was presented to us with the media down there, er the travesty of this whole thing, that he was living up to his oath and risking everything, and he was denied discovery in the preliminary hearing in September, denied the ability to call witnesses to er validate his er, his er, his his his beliefs in the oath and that the oath is the prime directive and the chain of command goes all the way back to the President it doesn't stop at the Pentagon like, like Judge Lind tried to, to, Judge Lind determined that the orders came from the Pentagon and didn't go back to the President for a (or 'that') deployment and that's false 27.14 they, the deployment orders for foreign deployment go back to the President. All authority in the military comes down from the President, even the authority that convening Court Martial comes down through the chain of command from the President and he was not allowed to present any evidence about the chain of command going back to the President, and er and discovery of documents, and, and even worse, at that point in the hearing...Judge Lind declared that the orders he disobeyed are presumed legal. So in other words when he went into the actual CM, they were told, the panelists were told, that the orders he disobeyed were presumed legal, when, if the whole basis of the orders were unconstitutional, that was the question. 28.03 Are they really legal, because he's not, he's a putative President who wasn't constitutionally eligible to sit in the Office and give those orders. ASK: (laughs) Talk about...(CK talks over her) CK: When you get to the CM and you're told your orders are presumed legal the, the just...the panel has to accept that fact stated by the Judge. how in the world can he win? ASK: You can't, you can't and he (CK talks over her) and he was not allowed to... CK: (unclear)...those orders were not legal in the first place, to go to Afghanistan, so ASK: Right. Right. They, they, they cut him off at the pass is what they did (CK talks over her)... CK: It was a kangaroo court he got to the CM and it was a Kangaroo court, there's no way anybody could have walked out of there without going to jail because the Judge decided the preliminary hearing, no discovery, no witnesses as to the facts of the merits of what he was arguing, bringing up that his oath as being the prime directive and he wanted the question answered, is Obama eligible under the Constitution therefore his orders are lawful, or is he not 29.01 and, and she said you're not going to get even a chance to investigate or ask those questions, and we're just going to declare the orders are presumed legal, presumed legal, presumed, so are we fighting a presumed war with presumed bullets, I mean, presumed legal, that was the whole, the legality of the questions was the whole basis of why he questioned the order
ASK: Yeap, yeap. Tschhh Let's take it from the top here. (oh god please no) You um, you said that you and a friend drove down to Fort Meade to be there for the trial (CK talks over her). CK: A combat veteran of Vietnam by the way, he was he was ... you know he had the bullets flying around over there...I never got in with it myself, but...he was a, he drove a tracked vehicle in the rice paddies, so he's seen action and he was standing up for his country too, to support, to support Lt Terry er Lt Col Terry Lakin, he wanted to go down there and show his support. 30.01 ASK: When you arrived, when you first arrived, um, you were er checking in to see if there was any Military housing available for you? CK: That's right (ASK talks over him) ASK: This, again I believe the hand of god is, is involved here, it's it's just, it's just too much to be all coincidence, because here we drive several hundred miles down to the, a couple of hundred miles down to the, Fort Meade, and uh, you know, we stop along the way, and had a little something to eat or whatever, and we get there and we can't find the building and we're driving around, er, we finally figure out where the check-in building is, and we go in there, and at the exact instant, I...go in, I declared my name, took my I.D card out and I asked I said that I had called down to make reservations but they said none were, they weren't taking reservations but if we showed up around 4 O'Clock, er we'd be able to give you a room if there was one available. I just walked in, ID, Commander Kerchner, just told them exactly what I just told you. Now, there weren't any rooms but just at that exact instant in time a gentleman was leaving the building 31.15 and he heard me say 'Commander Kerchner' and I (unclear) to see if there was a room, and he stopped over there, and after I turned around with my friend to walk out, he says to me, 'Commander Kerchner', and I said yes, and I looked... and I recognized him, and I says Terry! There he was, Lt Col Terry Lakin was checking out of that building. Where he was staying at the base I don't know but that's the building he checked in and checked out was like the central booking building at the exact instant in time that I'm trying to get a room or just two people our paths cross in the universe, and we are the two people who had the most recent, high profile cases suing the Pres..hhumf, you know dealing with the President's eligibility. If I would have arrived a couple of minutes sooner, or a couple of minutes later, I would never of met him, it was just, how, how bizarre, you know, if I wouldn't have stopped on the way down, to have a little bite to eat, or if I would have, if I'd have been able to find a building immediately as I say the gate guard would have gave me great directions. It's just that everything stacked up and I just walk in there, say my name and he happens to be leaving the building and he hears my name and he stops and waits for me and he introduces himself and he says it's an honor to meet me, and I say it's an honor to meet me? It's an honor to meet you. You're the one risking everything, you know? 32.39 CK: and we came down here to support you! I introduced my friend and he's, they were talking there a bit and he said I think we'd better step outside because the gentleman who, who helped us find the building had come in to show us where to, where the, he was trying to, he turned out to be on the CM
panel the next day, and Terry, Terry had sort of detected that he probably was and he felt that we should step outside and go in his car and talk, so that there wouldn't be any danger of uh, you know, impropriety there or whatever. ASK: Right (she mmm's' throughout, uttering the occasional low level 'right' as he talks) CK: So we went out in his car and turned, turned the car on 'n he, you know, sittin' there, and we're chit chatting and again he's pleased to meet me and honored to meet me, I'm telling him I'm honored to meet you...you know, you're the one risking everything, 'n uh, somewhere in there he says, uh, did you guys eat yet, did you, why don't you come out to my house, you know, we can talk more out there 33.30 So he, we, we didn't wanna impose, because it's the day before the trial, we thought he had things to do... things getting ready for the trial, maybe speak with his lawyer or whatever...so, but he insisted, so we said OK, we'll come out, so we went er, to get our commercial lodging taken care of and as soon as we did that, off base lodgings 'cause there wasn't anything on the base, er, we then went out to Terry's house and, he lives, you know, er, about 35 miles from the base, and we met him and his family and er talked about the pending CM and he was upbeat and still he knew he'd be punished because the deck was stacked against him, but he wasn't defeated, he was, he said, he still believes in the constitution and he, that he thinks he did the right thing, and, er, maybe a coupla the steps were made legally in the sense of the orders to report to the his commanding officer for counseling, he's, in hindsight he probably should have obeyed that order because that one didn't go back to the President it's one the one about being deployed that did. 34.36 But er he, you know, he, kind of maybe misunderstood his initial counselor s advice, and er so he knew, he knew he had made a few mistakes tactically along the way, but he was still opti, up-beat and optimistic. So there was the hand of god out there (ASK tries to interrupt) in that we met accidentally, I had never met him before, never spoken to him on the phone, never had emailed him at all, it just, bizarre, there I go down to support him and I run into him on the base, and that's a huge base, I don't know, it's about 5,000 acres
ASK: Right. Well that's called a divine appointment (laughs) CK: Yes! ASK: Yeah, a divine appointment. Erm, So you met him, you had a chance to sit in his home with him, and get to know him CK: Yes (while she's still talking) ASK: and his wife and he was upbeat, he was optimistic, (Kerchner talks over her saying what sounds like 'real ? children') he was realistic about what he was facing CK: H hmmm 35.26 ASK: Pardon... (they talk over each other) CK: Children...beautiful children, you know, I have grand kids about the same age, and er, it's a beautiful
family, sm, you know, middle class home in the suburbs, and er, his wife's supportive of his decision and, everything was, looked fine I mean we knew there were going to be difficulties next days, you know, getting, he kind of, I , I kind of thought he, he detected that he might not be might not be dismissed from the army because he thought his new attorney was pretty sharp, 'n er, but he would get punished for some of the things he did and might have to do some time, and and er in prison for it, maybe or whatever, but he was still upbeat
36.05 ASK: So, when you left his house that evening, ahm, it was with a sense that, you know, things were going to be, er, not go smoothly the following day, but they would at least go fairly, maybe
CK: Right. He thought he, thought that er, he had a chance of getting across the message er er of of why he did this, and that, and that, n... ASK:H hmmm CK: and that he still believes in the constitution and and what he did and we felt like kindred souls talking to each other, we talked for about two and a half hours, him my friend and his wife and him, 'n the kids were, the kids were all aware of what their daddy was standing up for, I, i tried to not talk in front of the kids and I said at one point do the kids know what's happening, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they do, so ASK:, How old are the children? CK: Well let's see now, about, mmmm, say, what's, what's 6th grade, how old would a girl be in 6th grade ASK: Mmmmm, probably about ten or 11 years old maybe (CK talks over her) CK: 10 or 11 maybe, and then there was another one about, I would say 8, or, or 7, and another one about 2, so er, maybe 2 or 3 37.11 but they're nice kids, Christian home, er, Pili is a very, er, devout, low key, calm quiet type person, they, they got Pizza, we had a little, you know, they treated us all to pizza there, and a little wine and pizza, two and a half hours we, we we (can't make word out) about everything 'n like I say, it was like kindred souls, talking to each other. We both knew we were, we believed in, in god, we bel... in the oath ...at the end you say so help me god, we both believed that we were living up to the oath to the best of our ability so help us god, we, we didn't take our oaths as just words, like I guess some people think it's a ritual, you just, you know, do this ritual and say these words, that's part of, whatever, being a, being a senator or joining the military, it doesn't mean anything after that, that's what some people think. 38.06 Both of, Terry and I took, take that oath seriously. Different, and we could tell that. ASK: Yes, yes. Alright, so take us to the following morning, when you arrive at the ahm, at the CM, tell, paint, paint a word picture for us, Wh, wh, what did you see when you arrived? CK: Well we arrived very early, it was very cold and windy, and er, they wouldn't let anybody in the
building early, so there was a line there and everybody was freezing cold, you know, and er, they waited till the last, the last er, ... it was 8;30 they opened the doors I believe, and the trial, the CM started at nine, so we were all there shivering, and you know open the door, let us come in and get warmed up, but they finally opened up the doors and you had to go through the metal detectors and the wands and you know, stand a certain way, just like the airport drills they're doing right now... stand with the hands out. They, they were, the er, military police there or court bailiffs, whatever they were, and security, there were police cars everywhere, they had er half the (can't make word out) on that ? blocked off so you couldn't bring any vehicles close to the entrance of the court 39.22 er, I don't know what they were thinking, like somebody would, you know, whatever, I mean they, they, we, somebody, some soldier told the one person that they were told that we could be potentially violent, I mean hhuh, we're peace loving constitutional people, it's the other side that's, that's been always been the one introducing violence into this issue as exampled by the (can't make this out???) union goons, beating up people at er, at the town hall meetings er, you know last August, but er, a year before (can't make this out???) but er, um, anyway, they, they were very apprehensive of, of us and er, we all got in there eventually er, and I looked around the courtroom and I wanted to figure out if it was full, it was packed, so I said, I wonder how many people are here, so I counted all the seats, there was 60, right, there was, and it was declared by the court security, the bailiffs, or whatever you wanna call 'em, er, in military uniforms, that they were going to admit any other people on a standing room only basis, 40.30 and er, there were people standing around the walls, mostly in most cases the military got up and gave their seats er, to people who wanted to sit down, but there also was a closed circuit camera to feed to another room, and, so I don't know how many people were in the other room the first day, if there were any, or or if that was full, I don't know. There was also press outside that never got into the room, er, er they were out there, there... we saw them at lunchtime, they were freezing (laughs), but er, the room was packed, and er at 9 O'clock, it's the, you know, all rise, and the the Judge comes in, so, there were, we, we quickly learned before we, that there were a few...of the classic Obots there too, there was ah, maybe about 3 or 4 of them, and er, 2 for cer for sure but the vast majority of the people were the patriots there to support Lakin 41. 27 ASK: Huhmmmmm. So then what happened, Ah, Also I, I noted that Reverend Manning was there as well and you may know that er (he talks over her) CK: He didn't get there the first day. Reverend Manning showed up (she talks over CK) on the second day. I believe, I believe it was either the first day in the afternoon, or the second day, I'd have to check my notes as to exactly, he wasn't there in the morning though, but anyway uhm, his (entrance ?), it was interesting, er OK well, let's go through the trial here a little bit. So they all rise, and we learn that er, Mr Puckett is speaking that that Terry is gonna plead guilty to the first count of disobeying orders, basically the charges were broken down to disobeying orders as one count and missing movement as the other and, ah, the disobeying orders part er that he was gonna plead guilty to, so I think what happened is, that Terry kinda knew there was gonna be some kind of er plea bargaining, or whatever you want to talk about, but he didn't know the extent of things, and I think he probably didn't meet a lot with Neal prior to the actual trial starting, probably the fir... I saw, I saw Terry go in earlier, er, they left him in but the other people had to stand out in the cold, but they left him in because he's part of the court process, you know 42.46 so the lawyers got in and the Judges and the bailiffs and all that, so he was in there, he was
probably meeting with his lawyer and they...I get the feeling after the fact that, that er, that Neal Puckett (NP after this) didn't spend a lot of time briefing his client as to what was going to happen till the actual day of the events, but anyway, they decided to plead guilty to the, to the er disobeying orders and the rest of the morning was spent, basically, for hours the judge kept going over with Terry, do you know what you're doing, do you agree with this, this whole like the Miranda rights are you giving up all your rights to a defense here on these charges of disobeying orders, do you fully understand this, do you know what the maximum penalty could be, 18 months in the, in er in prison, you know, er. So, that was the whole morning, er going o, just... going over all the details of pleading guilty to those, to those charges. 43.44 So er, at that point, er, they go then, to the er, to the next count, which is missing movement which they pleaded not guilty to, and then, then of course you've got to get into the, er, the voir dire part, er, they, they, they they bring in the panel then, and they, they had 10, and they ask 'em a bunch of questions, and er, eliminated two of 'em, and then they started the CM on, erm the the prosecution put on, er, their, their their case and that was the rest of the day, and they made of course Lt Col Lakin look like the worst soldier that ever that ever served in the army er, ah, so (ASK interrupts) so that was the rest of the day, that's what the...the prosecution rested their case, so, if you have any specific questions about what went on, what wet on in the prosecution's case I'd be happy to answer 'em 44.45 ASK: Well I wanna know...er, the prosecution, did they, were they, first of all, were these seasoned JAG officers, or, or, how (he talks over her) CK: No they were more junior. The original JAG officer that was assigned to Lt col Lakin's prosecution, er he, you may remember in the preliminary hearing, he, he at one point, had told one of the constables or bailiffs there that er that if Terry doesn't behave himself tazer him, do you remember that? ASK: Yes, yes I do CK: That guy, that guy was removed from the team, he was the, uh I guess the lead prosecutor, er I think he was a major, but I'm not positive, or a Lt Cl, but he was removed from the, from the case because of that and i understand her got er some sort of disciplinary action, er I don't know a letter or something in his file but he...I heard down there at the trial that he had decided to leave the military. So, the original prosecutor was off the case and the new team were all younger people erm 45.56 I, I believe there was a Captain and one very young Major...2 males and one female, and we didn't think they were doing a very good job, because we thought that Neal Puckett was going to - they didn't address the Constitution at all, as far as why, Lt Col Lakin after 18 years of, of honorable and exemplary (he did say it this way) service, would, would refuse an order to deploy to Afghanistan, when he had been there before and he'd been to Bosnia in combat zone and has been decorated! So we thought that, well they can, they can do all they want, but Neal Puckett's a very experienced lawyer and he's gonna, he's gonna basically er clean their clocks (ASK talks over him) ASK: Bring that out CK: Yeah, in the defense section, but boy, were we surprised about Neal, huh 46.48 I mean, when they, when the prosecution rested at the end of the first day they had, er, they had er basically called a whole bunch of witnesses including the commanding officer, to just, testify to the
fact that, er, that Terry was, er supposed to report to Fort Campbell that he had er acquired plane tickets to go down there 'n then he didn't show up for the plane, and that was the basis of missing movement but he also on his orders could have driven down there by privately owned vehicle, so er in the cross examination, Neal kept er hitting on this that Terry didn't go did not take that plane, he didn't miss the movement of the unit, of the military unit, he just missed flying down on a plane, and he could of also drove down or taken a bus down, so a legal technicality type defence that, that, that he, that he had the option of getting anywhere he was ordered, anyway he could, to get to Fort Campbell, so to charge him for missing movement by not being on that plane was not, was not legal, 47.58 but erm, in the end they convicted of him anyway, but that was the, the the the prosecution was trying to show that he had a duty to be on that plane and er the cross examination was, well he didn't have duty to be on that plane, he had a duty to report to Fort Campbell he just re, he didn't disobey orders to report to Fort Campbell even though he pleaded guilty to that he had a duty to be on that plane, because he could have, if he was gonna report to Fort Campbell he could of drove down with a private vehicle because that was allowed on those orders, or he could have taken a bus, so they, ... so basically the missing movement charge was piled on by the government, they already got him to plead guilty to disobeying orders, and he did that because he was telling the truth because he did disobey the orders and he had no way of defending himself as to the reason why - they would not allow discovery, or witnesses, and they had, the the the judge, said, to the, to the to the, er to Lakin's attorney and to everybody in, er, that was in the panel or in the courtroom, that the orders are presumed legal. 49.07 You know, so that says if the orders are presumed legal, he disobeyed 'em, so he pleaded guilty to that
ASK: Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. He, now, now, er we're talking with Cdr Charles Kerchner, US Navy retired, who himself had brought a case, er er challenging Obama's records, and er, it wasn't heard by the, it went all the way to the Supreme Court, and er attended the CM of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, who now sits in a cell at Fort Leavenworth federal penitentiary. Erm, ah, Commander Kerchner, Terry Lakin had two attorney's. He had a civil attorney, to begin with, Paul Jensen, ah, what was the story with that... wh wh why was he removed from the case? CK: All I know is, is what I heard, I don't really know why for sure, but uh, when he, at the preliminary hearing when all means of defense were removed, the er, ability to gain discovery of documents, to er call witnesses to defend Lt Cl Lakin's decision to, to consider the officers oath his prime directive and to judge all orders as to whether they were lawful against the constitution which is the fundamental law of the land, it's not just a piece of parchment paper on display in Washington, that's the fundamental law of the land and all orders, a military officer is supposed to be able to, have the intelligence to question whether the order is lawful against criminal law, but also the constitutional law the law of the land. 50.49 If a, if an order is unconstitutional, you're not supposed to be, to obey it. That support and defend the constitution is the only thing you're required to do by oath, but anyway, once, once Jensen was not able to get discovery, or be able to call witnesses, or put up any kind of defense at all, on the constitutional basis, it was strictly a matter of mitigating damages, in, in under the UCMJ as to how much time he was gonna be able to do, er be, be sentenced to, and with the judge saying that the orders are declared presumed legal, er, at that point, i believe Terry Lakin and his advisors, er decided that it was best to get a UCMJ expert at this point to try to mitigate the amount of time that he would be spending in prison, and Paul Jensen has no experience at all that I know of, with the, with the military
law, so at some point, er a decision was made to hire another attorney who was a UCMJ expert. Now I, I would have thought that Paul Jensen could have stayed in as part of the team but for whatever reason he didn't, but, now the question I have in my mind is how did they get to Neal Puckett? How, did, how, like the two balls er, the balls in motion, the people in motion ... that, that, that Terry and I met there accidentally at the, er, Fort Meade...billets, lodging building. 52.19 Who introduced him to Neal Puckett and how did that come about? Er, I was, I heard he was at some kind of a fund raising dinner, and er, that Neal was introduced to Terry or Terry was introduced to Neal and, on the basis that's Neal's this high powered successful lawyer, well known, erm, military law attorney, and er, he, he, you know maybe he can help you, he can, he can er, really do a much better job than Paul Jensen on this could now at military law that's that's the prime er concern here and the constitutional issues were not going to be allowed. So, how did, was that an accident? Was that a coincidence? Was it arranged? Who arranged it? I of, I wondered about that after I saw the case ended, because when we get to the second day, after the def, after the prosecution rested on the first day, the second day we get to the, the er, defense, the first thing Neal does, is rests. He doesn't even put up a defense. 53.25 ASK: He rested? He rested the defense? CK: Yes! He rested. ASK: What a shock that must have been. CK: Right, we were, I (she talks over him) in the the audience was like, looking around, woahwoah, rest? He put on no defense at all. ASK: What did Lt Cl Lakin do at that moment? Did he appear surprised? CK: I think, I think he was briefed about this by Neal Puckett that this is what we were gonna do and we're gonna make all our arguments during the sentencing phase, as to why you did this and everything, and try but...if you know Lt Cl Lakin, he's a very humble er guy, he he, he was very unexpressive through the whole trial. He just sat there. Er, (she talks over him) ASK: Kind of meek? CK (Says something like 'that's not the word I would choose' - I think he misheard it as 'weak') ASK: Would you characterize him as meek? CK: Yeah, he's a nurturer, he's a doctor, he, the military is, you look at the military, you think of warriors, well, you know, certain people are alpha male warriors, but he's a doctor, he's not there to charge up the hill with a bayonet, he's there to fix up the wounds after you've been injured charging up the hill (laughs). 54.38 you know, he's a nurturing, kind, gentle man, that's, he's a doctor, and a very experienced doctor with expertise in 3, 3 specialties. Ah, but anyway, so he just sat there and took all of this, and I think that's part of the problem, when Neal Puckett put him on the stand in the sentencing phase he just decimated this man, because this man, he's not a, he's not a, he's not a forceful person in a physical
intimidation type situation, that, that Neal Puckett presented to him not physical, verbal intimidation, er but very forceful, er I'd call it interrogation of him during the sentencing phase. He just broke Lt Cl Lakin, because Lt Cl Lakin is a very quiet, humble, humble man, he he's very strong in his convictions but yet in his outward demeanor he's he's he's not a very forceful assertive person. I can't describe it, I don't know if you know what I mean. 55.41 ASK: Yeah. He's mild mannered. CK: Yeah, very, very humble, you know, very humble. He'll do anything for his for his soldiers, he was, he was he was testified in the sentencing phase, how in a, and one of his character witnesses, that that he would take his spare time over in Afghanistan, that he was trained in ah, as an osteopath, so he was trained in manipulation and massage and he would, these pilots in these helicopters would come back from action and they'd be all tensed up, and he would, even though he was off duty he would, he would have his er massage table there, and and and give these people er, er er an osteopathic type, relaxation type massage to rely to reduce their stress, so yea, yea, (she talks over him) but anyway... ASK: But let me, let me get back... (he talks over her) CK: ... the defense rested...It just shocked us ASK: Yeah, yeah. 56.31 ASK: But before, before we get to that I wanna ask you, did the eligibility question ever come up at all? CK: Only, er, the prosecution showed the videotape that Safeguard our Constitution er, put up, you know where, where Terry explained at Paul Jensen's office, they videotaped him explaining why he was gonna disobey orders ASK: Right and I think... (he talks over her) CK: The prosecution used that to prove it was premeditated, that, that was there to show the the the court martial panel, which is like, they're called the panel, it's like the jury, the members of the panel, er, to show that er, that he planned this. That, that was their reason for showing that. And we were shocked that the prosecution showed this 'cause when they, that particular video was very powerful. That Terry Lakin in that video is the one I should have seen in the court room, but I didn't see it. He was, he was humble and quiet all the time. ASK: Ah, OK CK: I think, I think his counselor told him to do that. 57.40 ASK: Now let's go to day 2, and day two, this was the, this was the day that the, the defense was supposed to present it's case and his, the, Neal Puckett, the attorney for Terry Lakin, stood up and said the defense rests. CK: Exactly
ASK: So (he talks over her) CK: And we were all shocked ASK: So then what happened, after the shock, a shock wave must have just, you know, re...(he talks over her) CK: Yeah! ASK: ...gone through the entire court room. What then? What happened then? CK: Well, then the judge, er procedures and things are announced, and they go, they, they er, they, they er, the panel has to go out and decide if he's guilty or innocent of moving, er missing movement and, and er, they, they go out, and they deliberate, and they find him guilty. And then after that (she interrupts) ASK: I, I'm sorry, I want to jump in here because I, I want to add something here. You, you said, you said in previous interviews that you learned that Lt Lakin had been questioning Obama's eligibility for over 2 years. CK: That's right. ASK: And that he went, he really did go through chain of command and that, tell us, tell us what you know about that. 58.51 CK: Well, there's a, there's a formal procedure to question the leadership in your chain of command and that's called article one thirty eight, and he did that. He wrote letters to his elected officials, he also, er, tried to avail himself of what soldiers in the military can do when they feel that there's something is wrong and they need, er, they need help to get it resolved because the military system is, is not helping them and it's called a congr a request for a congressional inquiry, he, he tried that. They didn't even answer him for any of this thing, he just got, he just got no answers ' ASK: So, not, not even from his elected representatives? CK: No. None. Not no answers back, none. Same thing happened to me. ASK: So he, he tried to use the, tried to get your elected representatives. No response, no nothing. CK: No responses. Nothing 59.43 ASK: He, and then, and then he used a a (he talks over her)... CK: And we found out why now because the Congress was told by that CRS Memo, you know? Basically the fix was in. The congress wasn't gonna answer people that knew what they were talking about, and if they could, if they thought they they could buffalo you they'd give you some nonsense answer but in the case of myself and Lt Cl Lakin they did not answer us, we didn't even get a form letter
ASK: Ow, Wow. He, he ... (he talks over her) CK: ...So I learned he had been fighting as long and hard as I had and got treated exactly the same way inside the military as I was being outside. Total, total, no interest no response by the, the the elected officials, in his case also the military, in my case, er, whoever I whoever I wrote to I didn't get an answer and whoever he wrote to he didn't get an answer. They just (she talks over him) stonewalled 1.00:38 ASK: Let me ask you this. Do you know who the elected officials were, that he, ah, contacted, that he tried to get help from? CK: Er, I don't know their names, you'd have to contact er (she talks over him) ... his trusted (?) and his advisers (?) He lived at Woodbine, Maryland so (she's still talking over him) ASK: Maryland, right. CK: Yeah, you could look it up who juris, who has the district of Woodbine Maryland ASK: Right, right. CK: But er anyway at certain points there were also (she talks over him) ASK: And who were your, who were the elected of, who were the elected officials that you contacted, that didn't respond to you either? CK: Well, my Congressional Representative was named Charlie Dent, and er, he was a Republican, and my Senator er Senator was er Arlen Specter. Now, there you go, Arlen Specter ASK: There you go. CK: Yeah right... CK: but hes's on the judiciary committee, ASK: Yeap, yeap CK: he knew darn well what I was asking about, you know, he's a lawyer, you know, and the other one was Senator Casey ...a Democrat, you know, I didn't expect anything back from him, but for Senator Specter, a Republican, I thought he woulda answered me. He didn't!
1:01:47 CK: And I, and I wrote (she talks over him) I wrote to Senator McCain, never answered me er, I wrote to er, I, I have a, I'll have to go the through the list, there's probably a coupla dozen of them, all the key er, leaders of the various committees. I wrote to the people, like you know, like Michelle Bachmann, all the people that you, that you thought would be interested. Never got an answer. No answer. Everybody is (she mutters something) ...people the letters I wrote were 5 pages letters, they were well documented as to everything I had done to try to get this ...(she talks over him) this was prior to me suing, this was prior to my lawsuit I wrote these letters. I wrote to the President of the United States, I wrote to the Vice President. Chairman of Homeland Security, er, Chertoff, Secretary, rather. So anyway Terry had
been doing the same thing, he'd been doing the same thing I just didn't know it. Everybody thinks he just stood up arbitrarily March of 2010 and said, 'I'm not going to Afghanistan'. No, he had spent a year and a half prior to that, trying to get the question answered, is Obama constitutionally eligible to be commander in chief. He didn't believe he was. (She interrupts) 1:03:00 ASK: And even his, even his own chain of command, his, his direct, er, er commander, and all the way on up, nobody answered him? What did they say? Shut up and do your job, or... CK: I, I, to paraphrase it I think they just kinda shrugged and looked down, you know what I mean, like nobody wants to touch this with a ten foot pole like a hot potato. ASK: Wauw. CK: They gave him No. real. answer. The...if the, any kind of paraphrased type answer was 'can't help ya'. Know what I mean? ASK: Hm hmmm CK: Nobody wanted to touch it. He was like, pushed aside, like a, like boy this guy is, you know whoo, we don't wanna talk, we don't wanna be bothered with him, he, he, I think every body's worried about their career, anybody who, anybody who would try to help him would go down with him. ASK: 01:03:53 So this means that the courts, the Congress, his State Legislators, the military, the media, had closed off every avenue, that he had, for redress of grievance, here. CK: Right ASK: He had nowhere to go, he had, I mean they really boxed him in CK: He looked at his oath and said, do I give up, or do I try to force the system to get attention to this, by refusing my the orders by Obama who I consider to be an illegal President, and that's what he chose to do, he basically fell on his sword to draw attention to the fact that we have an illegal President sitting in the office ordering 30,000 troops to go to Afghanistan ASK: Agh, incredible, just incredible CK: The man, in effect, well you want to say martyred himself to try to get some national attention on this issue, because nobody was, was paying attention to him inside the military, his repres, elected officials in Congress, the people who are tasked to respond to congressional inquiries filed by soldiers, didn't respond to him, didn't answer him.
1:05:02 That's the most shocking charge that I heard, that the requests for congressional inquiries filed by a soldier were ignored
ASK: And not only that, but an Officer! CK: Yeah! Ignored. Ignored. I think, this all goes to the basic conclusion, er Andrea, and is that they know the answer; they just don't want to face the truth. They all know that Obama is not eligible, but nobody wants to step up to the plate and face the issue head on. That's why nobody was answering anybody. They know the truth. They can't handle the truth ASK: Ha! Gee I've heard that line before! CK: Yes! ASK: Jack Nicholson CK: Yeah! (They both chuckle) ASK: CK: but anyway I just wanted to recount when you asked about, er Reverend Manning. You know, he did arrive at a certain point, and I did notice that, wherever he sat there was these constables or bailiffs in military uniforms sitting to the left and right of him and as (?) pointed out I also noticed there was always 3 sitting behind me, and, and er, I think they had certain people flagged, I think they knew who we were. 1:06:12 And er (she interrupts) ASK: And they didn't want any trouble and (they talk over each other) CK: Yeah we remarked (or were marked?) that we were potential trouble, but anyway, at one of the recesses, these, a coupla these security people come in, and they drag Reverend Manning out, and charged him with trespassing. We find out a coupla hours later, he was, he was er, he was in, in in incarcerated in an interrogation room, and he was interrogated and two people from his congregation with him were in separate interrogation rooms, and they were all, he's being charged with trespassing, and trying to, they, he was a, he was a he, he his car was searched and he was waved onto the gate by the guard he was granted permission to come onto the base, he just went through, they said he went through the wrong gate, but he had come through the same gate the earlier, the day before in the afternoon, so that refreshed my memory I guess, he did get there in the afternoon the first day, so he, he said that er, ...he told the truth, he told the truth (I can't make this out) so hour after hour they were comparing the stories of all two of his congressional, oh, not congress er congregational members that came with him and him, and, and they all looked the same, you know. The car was searched, and they were waved through. They did not trespass. They tried to get them him to sign statements, that er, whatever was in 'em, I don't know, he refused to sign any statements, they finally after about 2 or 3 hours let them go and he rejoined us in, in the courtroom 1:07:38 but he, he let it be noted that there's gonna be a, he's not gonna, he, his civil rights were violated. Now they were the only black er, attendees in the, in the gallery there supporting Lt Cl
Lakin, the only black people in the audience, patriots just like everybody else, and they were dragged out and charged with trespassing for, said they went in the wrong gate and were therefore trespassing (she talks over him) the guard on that gate let them through, and there were about a dozen other people in that room, white people, who weren't dragged out, who came through the same gate with, the same day the same gate and the same guard searched their cars and let them through. Er what kind of a system do we have, that he was targeted, I think, for they new his name, and and and you know how he calls Obama long legged mack daddy and all that and he's really very outspoken . I think he was targeted for harassment ASK: Could be. That could very well be. (he talks over her) 1: 08:39 CK: I believe there was one, one bailiff watching me on the standing on the side always eyeballing, every time I looked over he was looking at me, and these 3 guys sitting... they were waiting for me to do something, I think, to give them an excuse too, I don't know. But er, that was really very, so the only people that were dragged out was Reverend Manning and they were the three black people. Now w w w why? Why did that happen? They accuse our side of the R word, right, but look at what they did, they took the three black people in the, in the gallery, who are patriots, and drag them out and interrogate them for two or 3 hours. What's going on with our country? (She talks over him) And also, during this recess, they they accused us of, of being potentially violent, one of the, one of the Obots, who happens to be a lawyer, and a military officer in the Marine Corps reserves assaulted me, you heard about that? ASK: Assaulted you? CK: Yes, assaulted me ASK: No! CK: Colonel Sullivan, didn't you hear the stories on the internet about Col Sullivan assaulting me (she talks over him) ASK: Oh! Lt Col Dwight Sullivan, a Jag Lawyer? Yes I have. Why don't you (he talks over her) explain that CK: He's a full Colonel, I think, but, he was, during a recess, er, an attorney, by the name of er, William Bair (sp?) was debating him on the 14th Amendment, because they're always saying the 14th Amendment is one of the grounds that grants Obama natural born citizenship, that 'n the Wong Kim Ark Case, they, they they er intellectually er dishonestly argue that those things are granting natural born citizenship status to Obama, when there's nothing in the 14th Amendment. The word natural born isn't even in there. 1:10:20 but anyway he was debating this with er, with er, William Bair, and I was 2 rows away, and I was overhearing this, and I just sorta leaned over the row a little bit and said, er, the words natural born are not even in the 14th Amendment, and er, and he said something back to me and I said well, well for you to keep arguing that the 14th Amendment grants natural born citizenship, when, when the words natural born aren't even in the 14th Amendment is
intellectually dishonest, and at that point, he blew his cork. He got up, he got up out of his chair, face was red, started quickly moving down the row, er, you know how in a movie theatre you have to move round peoples knee, like, because the rows are tight, that's how it was, he almost trampled over two women, to get to the side isle, and er, he's yelling, Sir! Sir! Sir! all the way, er and my row was empty towards the, towards the wall so I, I moved over there because this guy was coming at me hot 'n heavy, and, yelling sir, sir, sir, and he ran up to me - did you ever see the movie Full Metal Jacket? 1:11:28 ASK: Yes! CK: How the Marine Corps drill instructors stick their face right in your face and then try to break down the recruits did you ever see that movie or another movie where they do that? ASK: Ya (he talks over her) CK: He came...running up to me full bore, in a physically intimidating, threatening manner, face flushed red, I mean, bristling, a Marine Colonel, you know with a high 5 haircut, an' all that, and he stuck his face right in my face and said 'You will NOT call me dishonest!', and you know I'm standing there and I'm like 'hey, this guy's not gonna intimidate me!' So I just looked him right back in the eye, I mean I, 33 years in the Military, a Commander, er, led men in the military, led men in civilian life, I practiced in the martial arts, the mixed martial arts, Judo, Taekwondo, I've dealt with physical confrontations many, many, many times, and also with angry people, whatever, I, this guy's not going to intimidate me, I know, I, I said to myself, 'I know what you're trying to do, you're trying to eyeball me and make me, and make, and intimidate me, you couldn't win your (the?) debate so you're just trying to physically intimidate me CK: So i just stared him right back in the eye, 'nd he was toe to toe, eyeball to eyeball, and I said back to him, 'I did not call you dishonest' I called you intellectually dishonest ASK: laughs CK: but when this happened, he came running up to me with these constables or bailiffs going hho ho ho ho (note, not 'laughing', something else) you know, like somethings coming down and they were watching, just watching, and this happened all about 30 or 50 seconds and um, and and he said, er I said, er, I called you intellectually dishonest, and he sez, I'm not, I'm not dishonest, and I said well you are when you, when you apply the 14th Amendment, er, er against ? natural born citizen and he says, 'I never said that' and I said 'well you say it on your blog all the time', and I said I read your stuff, you're doing it all the time, you're doing it over there 'n this is just paraphrasing the conversation, but he was really hot, he was in my face and at a certain point I said I gotta take charge of this, this man is tryin' to bluff me, he's tryin' to physically intimidate me, and I said, I've got start asking him some questions in turn, to turn, turn, turn the tables on him and that's what I did, i said 'tell me', I said, 'do you, or do you not believe that he, being Obama, is a natural born citizen, I went right to the base of it, right, and he didn't answer me. He wouldn't answer me.
1:13:52 and that's when I knew he was being intellectually dishonest, because if he couldn't answer that question he had doubts himself, but yet he's arguing that he is, right? So he, he, he I'm staring him, i'm staring him right back at him and he's staring right at me, we're eyeball to eyeball, and i saw him starting to twitch and I, looking in his eyes I could see he was all bluff, he's a hollow man, there was nothing there, so, he wouldn't answer me, so I waited another second or two, and I said real loud, I said DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT believe he is a natural born citizen, and at that point, I mean the guards were all went ho ho ho, there's something gonna happen here ASK: (she chuckles appreciatively) CK: (laughs too) because i was turning the tables on him now, and actually he started to shake, you could see his eyes twitching, his skin startin' to twitch, his body started shaking, he bruffly (sp?), he never answered me, he bruffly turned around and ran back to his seat, picked up his book, his tablet and his pen, and, and he started to try to write something, and I looked, I observed him, and his hand was shaking like a leaf, he couldn't write 1:14:57 ASK: Oh. Ha!
CK: So (she talks over) ASK: You called his bluff CK: Yeah. He tried to break me, and I broke him, and he he, he's a, he, he has no truth on his side, he's hiding behind his tough, the tough Marine Corps Colonel veneer, but he's not, he's not, inside he knows he's not being truthful and his argument is hollow just like he is, and the tru, I was arguing the truth and he knew it, and and he broke, and he ran ASK: Yeah was he one, one of the er (he talks over her)...members of the prosecution? CK: the point is (she interrupts) he...I was gonna say, just to finish up, who is being accused of potentially being violent, and who's violent again? Who's potentially violent again? ASK: Yea CK: The Obots, running up to us...and the lawyer said Charles that's fully physical, that's, that's technical assault, he didn't batter you, but that's assault. If you wanna bring charges on this I'll be your witness...I, I, I I'm not gonna pursue that, you know ASK: Right, right.
1:16:00 ASK: right, right, right right, er is er, was Colonel Sullivan a member of the prosecution team?
CK: No, but he did know 'em, and they knew him.
CK: They were, there were talking to the, not only the prosecution team, but the defense team. Now can you, why, why, what the, they, Neal Puckett and the JAG officer knew, knew er Col Sullivan very well, and at some point, somebody saw a member of the defense team, give a, it was either to er, Col Sullivan, or this partner there named Philip Cave, another super obot, who's also an attorney, er, a CD.
Now what was on it, I don't know, but no electronic equipment was allowed in the courtroom, and here, the defense team passes a CD to the two Obots that are in the room (chuckles) and we're going what's going on here?
ASK: Yeah, yeah
CK: What's going on here?
1:17:00 ASK: Well, well didn't you also say...well maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but the prosecution showed the video of Lt er, er Col Lakin er um, talking into the camera about why he did what he did
CK: Right, right.
ASK: did they did that during the arguments? The final arguments?
CK: Errrr, I think it was during the er, I'd have to look at my notes, now, I think it was during the er, the sentencing phase. They want they wanted to show pre-meditation
ASK: OK, that's right, you did mention that. That's right, which is ironic because in it he talks about the whole reason why he's doing it, so I mean, there it was, in the courtroom on the record...(he talks over her)
CK: No wait a minute, I just looked...it was on, er, the 15th the second day, at about 3pm, they put it on, and this was in the (pause) I believe it was in the sentencing phase, but you know, don't, don't get me I'm almost sure it was in the sentencing phase, at that point
1:18:06 But er, they put it on to show the pre-meditation. They wanted to get the maximum sentence
ASK: Yea, and the irony of it is, is that the very, the whole reason for, for Col Lakin doing what he did, was On that video.
CK: Yes! Yes, and then after (she talks over him) the video was done...
ASK: And they wouldn't allow it as evidence (ha ha (he talks over her) but at the same time there is was, on the record
CK: Yeah I know and the defense wouldn't use it, but the prosecution did, and when, when it was done, the audience applauded, and the judge, she hadda like rap the gavel, and tell the gallery - she calls it the gallery - to be quiet.
1:18:42 ASK: Hmm, yea. I wanna talk with you about the second day, um or, or maybe it was the third day, when Neal Puckett himself, his own defense attorney, turned on him.
CK: That, that was, that was the
ASK: And broke him down
CK: Yep, Yep they (she talks over him)
ASK: Tell us about that
CK: When it came to, to the, to the sentencing phase, er, Neal allowed his, er he he had, er Lt Col Lakin make an unsworn statement which which was not subject to cross examination, and i thought this was going to be used, and the gallery thought it was going to be used, to present his arguments, that, that he did this to live up to his oath to the constitution, and that this would be a positive opportunity for Lt Col Lakin to, to show why he did this, and that's not, that's not what Neal Puckett did, he used this to er, demoralize and, and throw under the bus Lt Col Lakin's honor, self-esteem, and the United States Constitution.
1:19:50 He, he he, he kept beating away at, er, verbally, as, as only a, an expert attorney is capable of doing when they have someone on the stand, they can tear you apart. That's what he did. Like, you would expect him to be doing this to a hostile witness. He, he said he said, he drew an analogy, and said that, Terry you're a doctor, and he drew an analogy of cancer, he said, you're, you're he said you find out you have cancer and you go to a doctor. Doc says you have cancer, and you go to another doctor and he says you don't have cancer, but you refuse to give up on your belief that you have cancer, and so you become obsessed that you have cancer, and you keep doing things, wrong things to treat, to get treatment when you don't really have the cancer.
This is, if this is the analogy with the Constitution, if you believe there was a cancer on the constitution, that, you know, oh, that he called Obama a Native born citizen, ha, he didn't even use the term natural born. You felt that this, that he wasn't eligible, but, you know, other people told you you were wrong but you didn't wanna believe it, because you have this obsession with the Constitution, you're obsessed with it, you, you, and he had a, he had the picture of his children on the wall, and the family is in the first row, and he's saying when are you going to stop thinking of yourself and your obsession to the Constitution, and start thinking of these children up here on the wall, when are you going to do something for them, instead of for yourself?
1:21:08 ASK: Sighs
CK: Can, can you imagine this, half an hour, fully...(she talks over him)
CK an HOUR of this, brow beating him, intimidating him, er, cross ex, you know, like cross examining him, as if he's - Terry after half an hour of this looked like, you ever see a picture of a Vietnam war prisoner that s been beaten up and mentally duressed to the point that they don't know what they're doing, and they're forced to make statements on tv, their heads down and broken?
CK: It was terrible
ASK: It makes you wanna cry (he talks over her) Oh my god.
CK: People in the audience were crying. Neal Puckett ambushed him on the stand, he, he told, he posted on his own blog, that he surprised Terry, Terry did not know what he was gonna do. He wanted Terry to show remorse (she talks over)
ASK: gosh (or wow)
CK: He wanted Terry to show remorse to get the letter sentence, but he didn't just make Terry show remorse, he destroyed Terry. He said that, that you're upset that, that the cancer on the Constitution was a mirage. A mirage! His, in other words, his, his oath and belief in the Constitution, that Obama has a question of his eligibility, that's a mirage. There is no cancer on the Constitution, and you're just obsessed with this, and, and you wouldn't let it go to to the point of hurting your own children, and your own family, and are, are you gonna stop thinking of yourself now, and think of your children, and he's pointing at the picture of those three young children on the all with his wife, I mean this was, (She talks over)
ASK: Oh how horrible
CK: this was mental torture. (she talks over)
CK: Now if you're (she talks over) now if you're under trial for potentially 42 months in prison, you're under a lot of stress already, right?
1:22:41 CK: He was under tremendous stress, and his own defense counsel was tearing him apart, destroying him, making him look like he was a selfish individual who was only thinking of himself, and, and pursuing a made-up mirage obsession that there's some, that there's some threat to the Constitution.
ASK: Oh that's heartbreaking. You must have just wanted to get up and scream STOP
CK: I was shaking my head I just... I couldn't understand why. I said, why did they hire this attorney? He doesn't believe, I found out later that, that er, that this Neal Puckett, and and, and the Obot Attorney, Colonel Sullivan, who's an ACLU lawyer, by the way, in Baltimore, or he was, and then he was hired by the government to defend the Gitmo terrorists. Did you know that? That Colonel Sullivan defended the Gitmo terrorists? but any way they're good f, they know each other, they respect each other, but er, er... but the worst case is that, is that Neal Puckett does not believe in the natural born citizen argument at all! He, he thinks that if you're native born, you're eligible, and he believes that Obama is native born, he used the term native born, he didn't use the term natural born to describe Obama (she mmms over him)
1:23:54 ASK: Mmmm.
CK: as like the eligibility requirement for Obama, he's, he said, he made, he made Terry (admit ?)... now you believe, that, do you believe that Obama, is native born or not, Yes or No? And he said, he made Terry say yes. So all of this is of, supposedly to show remorse, and that he's never gonna do this again, oh, so that the panel would give him a lighter sentence, but he could have defended Terry using the Constitution as the reason he did this. Not, not not destroy him completely
I think Terry was, er thought that possibly, if, if Neal, if he allowed Neal to do, to do whatever he wanted to do, that he could maybe stay in the service. That was the most important thing to Terry, was to be able to stay in the Service. He loved the army. And, I think maybe Neal said, er, er, you, basically er, that there's a possibility that I can keep you in the Service, if you show remorse, but he didn't tell Terry at all. He says on his own blog, erm, Neal Puckett says that he surprised his own client on the stand with his, with his method of questioning
1:25:03 what an arrogant, arrogant... (he talks over her)
CK: And that to me, that to me is an ambush and this goes back to how did he, how did Lt Cl Lakin get introduced to this attorney, an attorney who does does not believe in the natural born citizen eligibility issue at all and he he believes that all you have to be is born in America . Anchor Babies could be (she talks over him) President
ASK: In other words...He's been set up. Was he set up (he talks over her) I guess this is the question
CK: I, I can't, er, looking at what I saw, it went through my mind, how did this man, get, get to be in the position to, to ahh, talk to Terry and get impressed to the point that he hired this attorney, because he came with a very, a very good reputation, as being an expert in UCMJ, but the only thing is now, ... is that the sentencing phase is not, er over, and Neal announces he has to leave early
ASK: He's leaving before the (he talks over her)
CK: He left, He left before this phase was finished
1:26:04 And he left (unclear) now what, what kind of attorney who's a hundred and ten % committed to your client, leaves before the case is finished?
ASK: (long draw out aaaah) Somebody who's not 110% (he talks over her) committed
CK: ...that makes me think he did not have himself 110% engaged in defending Terry, Terry Lakin and remember he said (before?) to the Court Martial that Terry was going to be convicted. Remember that statement?
ASK: Hmmm hmm
CK: Neal Puckett said in the press some place or whatever, that Terry's gonna be convicted, there's nothing, you know... (they talk over each other)
CK: I think, I think (she talks over him)
ASK: I think he made that statement because er, Judge Lind wouldn't allow any evidence in
ASK: And wouldn't allow him to bring forward any, any um witnesses to defend him, in his defense
CK: Right, I just wonder how much, how much preparation and back, back er backroom work was done to get ready for this, to defend er, (they talk over each other)... Lakin because he didn't (really?) believe, he didn't believe in what Terry stood for!
ASK: It was a fait accompli (they continue to talk over each other)
CK: He didn't believe in what Terry stood for, the (She talks over him)... the constitution
ASK: It was a miscarriage
CK: as the prime directive
ASK: it was a miscarriage Shit!
1:27:15 CK: Why give our officers the oath to defend and support the Constitution, if you're not going to do it when, when you question the, an order being unconstitutional?
ASK: that's right.
CK: It should, there should have been an all stop order issued when his question came up through the chain of command, that says, this officer questions the constitutionality of this order, we must, you know, the chain of command should've sent a request over to Congress or whatever to get this investigated, to get this, this issue addressed, 'cause this officer's (?) his oath (can't make this out)
ASK: What do you, what do you, what does this tell you about the state of our military? That, that (he talks over her) nobody will be
CK: That the leadership down in Washington DC is compromised, erm, to political correctness extreme, and, and pol, and political, er worry about their careers more than anything else, er, they are, they are, they are just, totally enveloped with that, that cesspool down in DC like everybody else is
ASK: And it reaches all the way down (he talks over her - can't make her out)
CK: You get away, no, no I think you get away from DC, er the, er the military is different...you get away from that politics er and the er, you know, the (can't make this out) they are shining (?), there, one star waiting for the second star, and playing the political game
ASK: right, right, right.
1:28:34 right CK: So (she talks over him) when I was on active duty for training I never had to go to Washington DC, I hated it down there, cause it's all politics
ASK: yeap, er well I understand, but his chain of command all the way down to his next, his, his, his closest commanding officer, didn't...didn't er rise to his, his request for
CK: right (he's talking over her), but he was stationed at Walter Reade, you know, right in the middle of, right in the middle of the Washington DC, Baltimore, you know, beltway down there, you know, I mean, all those people there are, are, politically thinking. They don't wanna, they don't wanna touch what he was talking about with a ten foot pole because they didn't wanna be dragged down with him because they knew the system was gonna attempt to crush Terry Lakin. Now if more people woulda stood up, the system couldn't of crushed him (or 'em?)
1:29:22 But because he stood up and he went (or 'was left') alone, nobody helped him, he got crushed
ASK: Right, and this is the lesson to everybody else who's even thinking about doing it (he talks over her)
CK: They threw Terry, they threw Terry, his oath to the Constitution, and the Constitution itself under the bus. That's what Neal Puckett did. Neal Puckett threw Terry, his oath to the Constitution, and the
Constitution under the bus, just, all in an attempt to get him a lighter sentence, he destroyed, Terry Lakin, destroyed him, as only a smart sharp lawyer can do when you have a humble man like that on the stand, and a high stress situation like that, he destroyed him, but I tell you this, we shall not hold Terry Lakin in any less esteem, for, for what happened, because he was ambushed, and, and it's just like, when you're faced, n' if you were surrounded in World War II, or if you were, if you were over run, say, at the Battle of the Bulge, you're just over run and you're out of ammunition and you're out of food and you've fought, you fought for 3 days, the whole of the enemy's back and, and now you have no ammunition and you're surrounded by 12 Germans with rifles pointed at you, and all you have left is your rifle with a bayonet, no ammunition, and they tell you to surrender. You're faced with overwhelming firepower and support. Do you surrender, or do charge him with the bayonet and get shot down?
Now if you have a picture of your children being displayed on the wall, surrender, or be shot, and you can live to see your children
ASK: ((is murmering mmmm hmmms throughout this
1:30:54 What, you know, this mental duress went on for an hour. He was beat up by the person who was sent to, sent to defend him! So, he surrenders. Do we, do, do we hold the, the soldiers who were captured and surrendered in WW2, or made prisoners of war any less heroic, because they fought the good battle from Normandy for 3 months, and they had to surrender due to overwhelming force at some point? No, they're heroes right? So is Terry. He fought the good battle, but he was ambushed! He was defeated! He was tore apart by his own defense council, so he surrendered.
He had, he, he, he, his children were being displayed on the wall mother and his father, his father was in a wheelchair, sitting in the front row, the, the defense attorney is pointing, pointing at them why don't you start thinking of your family, why don't you start thinking of your children and pointing at the wall, those cherubs up there, instead of yourself and your obsession with the Constitution
ASK: (sounds horror-struck, again)
CK: He broke him, he broke the man, but Terry is a hero to me. I looked at a man like a prisoner of Al Qaeda that has been threatened to have his head cut off, or they, Vietnam prisoners, they were subject to mental torture, and forced to say things they didn't want to say, that's the way i looked at Terry. He was broken and he was forced to say things he really didn't believe, because he, y'know, he'd have been sent to 42 months in prison, and he was being told, if you say this, y... if you say this you're thinking of your children, and if you don't, you're not thinking of your children
ASK: Oah. Oah this is just, this is, this is horrific. Er, er somebody in our chat room has just noted 'Lakin is America. This is war. Obama must go'. (She's sort of laughing as she reads it) Ohhhhhhhhh.
1:32: 41 CK: Obama (she talks over him) er, er a commander is always supposed to be thinking of his soldiers, his troops first, you put their interests first, right, that's, that's what you're taught, as a commanding officer. Obama is the commander in chief. Why isn't he putting the interests of his army and his soldiers first? Why does he have to destroy a, a, a soldier who has served 18 years? A doctor, a valued asset. Show the darn birth certificate, the long form birth certificate! That's all the Lt Cl Lakin wanted to see! The original birth certificate with the signatures, the name of the hospital. He, he, he (she interrupts)
ASK: But wasn't he (he carries on)
CK: He wasn't even going for the natural born arguments of his father's citizenship; he just wanted to see the birth certificate. Why didn't they, why didn't Obama support his troops and show his original birth certificate, the, the contemporary that's 1961, typed, long form, birth certificate. A REAL birth certificate, not a digital image that lives, that lives only as bits in one's or zero (?) in soccer space that nobody of any control over legal authority has ever seen legit underlying piece of paper used to make it, because i believe the paper is made from the image, not the other way around
ASK: but you know, the whole point here is that it doesn't. It, it's almost a moot point about the birth certificate, because his father was not an American citizen. Period.
CK: Yes! Yes I agree 1:34:00
CK: Yea, I agree, and you know what, I, I, I talked to Terry about that the day before the trial, and I explained to him the argument, and, and afterwards he said to me, you know no one ever explained that to me in that way before, and he was starting to see the point
CK: He got involved, he, he got initially involved two years ago, because he wanted to see the birth certificate. He didn't believe Obama had presented conclusive evidence. He, he's a doctor. I believe, I think he delivered babies. He knows what a real birth certificate looks like. Now, oh that's another point,
during the meeting, during for those two and a half hours at his home, ah, one of his daughter's was born in Hawaii...one of his children, his daughter or one of his two sons, so he breaks out their birth certificate and we start saying, let me see that seal, and we looked at the seal on that Hawaiian certificate, a genuine one, and compared it to the image on the Internet that was Obama's seal, which is, it looks like gibberish, you can't read the State of Hawaii clearly or anything, and, and, and Terry said 'you're right, it does look different'. So obvious the news that came out about the seal looking different and all that. We were all there looking at it...of an actual certificate, from Hawaii, for one of his children, because he was stationed there when they were born, and he's, he's saying, you know, he's shaking his head, so right there and then, he's convinced AGAIN, that the evidence that he's putting, that Obama's putting on the Internet is, is forged, it's false, it's not real.
1:35:31 ASK: Hmm, hmm. He's gotta, Obama has a, he must have a lot to hide, to be doing all of this, spending close to a, $2 million in legal fees, to keep any of this from coming to the courts (he talks over her)
CK: Obama is a total forgery. He's a total forgery. His, he has, I believe he was born, not in Hawaii, possibly probably in Kenya, you know maybe in Canada someplace, but not in the USA, and that his birth in Hawaii was falsely registered by the grandmother, simply to get him US Citizen. The straw man, that they were trying to plan for him being President from 47 years in advance, that's a straw man argument that the Obots stirred up. Nobody on our side ever said that!
CK: We simply said there was false registration that simply gets him a US citizenship. How many cases of document fraud do we see today of people trying to become US citizens? It's, it occurs thousands of times a day.
CK: And it, and they, the Mexican border people walk across the border, Hawaii, they come in from Asia, because of the lax rules on, on er, getting citizenship, you can, two people can swear you were born in Hawaii, and, and they give you, they give you a certification of live birth.
1:36:46 I think Grandma Dunham signed it, saying he was born at home with no witnesses, sent it in as a mail in form, bingo bango, he's registered and because of the registration it appeared on the list that week, in the two newspapers, because it was automatic from the state, documents, falsified, er registration, er fraud. And his whole life (she talks over him)
ASK: You know that there's not, there's not a spine in Congress, er, er, with the, with the exception of Bill Posey, my Representative, who drafted that legislation, that would require any candidate running for President, to, to er, present certification of their, er, eligibility under, under the article two, section one, and he, he (he talks over her)
CK: Did he get re-elected? Did he get re-elected?
ASK: Yes, he did (he talks over her) Yes he got re-elected
CK: Is he gonna re-introduce it? Is he gonna re-introduce ... (she talks over him)
ASK: I don't know
CK: Well I hope so
ASK: Well I don't know
CK: Because now that there's a Republican committee chairman they can maybe get it out of committee
1:37:44 ASK: Yes. But, I'll tell you. The grief that he took, just for, just for er, er presenting that legislation, and of course it died with this Congress, it went nowhere. I think he had maybe 11 or twelve, er, co-authors, er, er co-sponsors
CK: right (he interjects with 'right' a couple of times)
ASK: on it, that was it. That, they didn't, (he talks over her) it(?) hit the third rail, they didn't wanna touch it!
CK: Absolutely, and that's, that's the way it was with, er the chain of command, er, with Lt Col Lakin. It's the third rail. Nobody wants to touch this question. And why? Because they all know there is a, there is a
question of his eligibility, and they know the answer, he's probably not eligible. Everybody knows it, and nobody wants to touch it. Why? Because of the fear of civil unrest that they, that the far left, has whispered in the hallways, and said ohoho, you can't do this. First of all, when during the election primary, if you brought it up you were being charged with a racist, na, na, you know you were gonna be, you were a racist, but now after it's a fait accompli, you know and a, an illegal usurper is in the office, now, oh, you can't, you can't, you can't, er, get him out of there now or there'll be riots, you know. I don't really believe there would be that much, er civil unrest, and, and and that can be handled, because you're supporting the constitution.
1:38:53 The people, the people will (she talks over), white, black, green or purple are gonna stand up for the Constitution, if the controlling authorities show, subpoena the documents, show there's no proof he was born in Hawaii, his father's not a citizen, he's not a natural born citizen, end of story. Get out! He's ineligible, un, undo everything he did
ASK: Mhmmm Ah! Wouldn't that be wonderful? Oh happy day! Wow! (laughs)
CK: Right, well you and I know, that, that he's not eligible because his father was not a US citizen, and was never even a immigrant that, that, that minister that got up at the inauguration day speech and said that he was a f..said that he was a son of an immigrant. Who's telling the falsehood? His father was not an immigrant to America. His father had no interest in America; his father didn't even like America. He was a he was a dyed in the wool Marxist. He went back to Africa to, to try to convert Kenya to Marxism, er, he didn't (she talks over) even, he didn't even have a green card, he wasn't even a permanent resident
1:39:51 ASK: And given all of that, there's still some doubt, there's still question as to whether or not Obama senior really is his father. I mean, there, there, there are people who maintain that there is, ... he was paid to say that he was the father
CK: The birth, the birth date is even in question. That's probably the birth date that Grandma Dunham put down as him being born. I', if you wanna, if the narrative that, that best explains it to me, is that she went, as a 17, 18 year old girl, in the second trimester of her, of her, of her carrying the child, to Kenya to give it up, to the family over there, and was supposed to leave the child there with the paternal, er, family, and then come back and start her life over in college, with, minus the child. You know how in the '60's many many people went away to, to take their child, ah, a women got, when young girls got pregnant
CK: They sent them away to Aunt Matilda, which was really, which was really an adoption center, and they had the baby there and they'd come back and they'd start their college and start their life. I think that's what was going on, because er, whether or not he was legally, er, biologically the father, everybody believed it, and er, I think she went over there to give up the baby but couldn't. Maternal instincts kicked in - but I think he was born in July, not in August, and that gave her plenty of time to come back by steam ship with the er, with the child, who... probably had doctors on board, she could have travelled easily on a steamship, and transited from Kenya back to either Seattle, or maybe to, er Vancouver Canada, and came across the border, er, by er Ferry, you know, and started her school with an infant, because, you know the stories in, are there, was that she didn't even know how to change a diaper right when she got back
ASK: Right, right.
1:41:31 CK: But even his birth date is in question. There is nothing about this man that's for certain. Nothing! There's no independent facts to verify anything about this man
ASK: Hmhmm hmhm. (pause) Oooh boy, and in the meantime Terry Lakin sits in his cell at Leavenworth for 6 months (he talks over)
CK: Now I did, I did hear a, I did hear from an insider, over the grapevine type, over the wall, that when he arrived there, they knew that this was a special person coming, and they, every, all the higher-ups of the prison out there, were there to m, to, to er, make sure that he was processed properly, and treated fairly and all that kind of thing, and er, you know, it was almost like a V.I.P prisoner coming in, I mean, the (she talks over)
CK: I mean the top staff was there, and er, er, the person was, you know, I cannot in any way say how I got this information, you know, it could, it could be from an inmate, could be, you know, family of an inmate, could be from somebody else that works there, or whatever, you know what I mean, as a friend of somebody, but anyway there was a story leaked out that er, that he was treated as a VIP prisoner coming in. Everybody knew about him, and what he stood, and what he stood up for. And there, they also stated that a lot of people there believe what he did was right. (pause - then they both talk at once)
ASK: There's an indication in that, isn't there?
CK: So, the further you get away from Washington DC, the more people know what he did was right, what I did was right
CK: that that Obama is not eligible, there's questions. 60% of the people have doubts about his eligibility, his, his what, his birth story, his narrative, his nativity. That's a hundred, a hundred that's a hundred and, you know, million plus, and that's a fringe? And yet no, no controlling legal authority and a controlling legal authority to me is a court of law with subpoena power or a Congressional Hearing with subpoena power, to get all the documents he's hiding, Occidental college, passports, any kind of paper that we can find to document this man's legal identity
1:43:35 The original birth certificate, and and (she talks over him) amendments
ASK: This is, this is
ACK: I think there are amendments to that. I think he was legally adopted at age 5 or less, which under the Geneva Conventions it would make, er, he would have lost his US Citizenship. When you adopt a child under the age 5, you get the, you get the, er, you're like born again, as, as a citizen of the new country
ASK: Right, right.
CK: So I think he's hiding that. I think there was an amendment of his birth, er records indicating he was adopted at age 5 or less
1:44.00 ASK: And, and ... (he talks over her) by an Indonesian, yeah.
ASK: Well, ah, erm, and the other thing too, erm, tut, er, is his family, Terry Lakin's family. Now I know that er, you have, er, you were involved in, in fundraising for the family, because, they really don't have any visible means of support, do they?
CK: No, he lost, he lost everything, he, he lost his er, his career, his pension which as valued at about two and a half million $'s, er, you know, the present value of a lifetime pension as a retiree of a Colonel - he was selected for Colonel he'd have retired as a Colonel. Er, he, he lost all his pay and benefits, immediately. That means no medical care, nothing for his, him and his family. Gone! Boom! No money, no pay and no medical benefits. Nothing, so I, I offered to, to help do whatever I can to speak out, and er, their family set up a Trust fund, and a website, it's called, it's called Terry Lakin Action Fund dot com (he spells the address out) or you could go to my web page www protect our liberty dot org (spells it out) and it has a direct link right at the top to Terry Lakin's site to raise funds to help support his family, and I am no longer raising funds for my case, so I'm helping to raise funds to help his family. They, they need help. He stood up for us. He stood up for our Constitution; he stood up for our liberty, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
He was railroaded, he was ambushed by his own defense counsel. He needs to, he's in prison now for 6 months. We've got to help him for 6 months at least, to help support his family.
Now there is a, a potential appeal I think in process, that, that could somehow get his benefits paid to, his w, er, the pay and benefits for those 6 months to his wife, but I understand it's a two year process
1:46:03 so if he ever does get any money that way under this special exception, where he's not getting the money but his wife is, that six months pay may come back two years from now, she might be awarded it, but in the meantime, what do they got to eat, for the next 6 months, you know what I mean, they need income
ASK: That's right
CK: Now the family's going to try help 'em, of course but I think America should help him
CK: He stood up for all of us
ASK: Yes. yes. Ahm, are, are, are contributions coming in? I mean, are, are...people responsive to this
CK: Yes, they are, Terry Lakin Action fund dot com, er I figure, n, not counting for legal expenses but for his pay and benefits were probably worth about $10,000 a month to him, so that's the goal, to raise at least that much, for, for support his family to be able to get health insurance, you know, and and and get the income coming in for his three children, and pay his mortgage and things like that. Er, I figured, I think his pay was pretty close to $8,000. Er, for a Doctor that's not a lot of money, but er, and then another 2,000 for medical benefits for the family and things, so, 'cause you have to purchase it separately it's gonna cost you a lot more than when the government was providing it, Right?
ASK: Of course yeah
CK: So I did estimate he needs to raise at least $10,000 for 6 months to cover the pay and benefits, the value of them, and then, if, if, I don't know what Neal Puckett charged him for that (pause - then she talks over him)
ASK: Miscarriage of justice
CK: That 'defense', you wanna put it in quotes, er I have no idea what, what a Washington DC (?) lawyer charges, so what a hundred $'s an hour? A thousand $'s an hour? And, and then he was there for two and a half days, 'cause he left early the last day like I mentioned he went of to Sicily or something to defend somebody else, erm, so, you know if it's, if it's a thousand $'s an hour, it's two days, er, I dunno, billable hours, er you know nine hours or eighteen hours. You could be talking $50,000 easy for his legal fees if, you know, I don't know.
1:48:17 so, so money has to be raised, be raised to pay those, so
ASK: Yep. Let's take a call, er Commander Kerchner we, we're down to our last sort of ten minutes and we've got somebody here who s got their hand raised and would like to ask a question, I think it's probably a Skype or, or cellphone caller, but er, caller go ahead you're on the air with, er Commander Kerchner (pause) Go ahead caller
ASK: Oh, it's Marie (or poss. Laurie?)... from New york
Caller: Yes, can you hear me?
ASK: Yes, I can hear you just fine
Caller: Erm yes, it's really, it's really a shame. It's almost like this guy was a plant (sighs) you know, I, I mean I wasn't too impressed by seeing him on the video, but it just er, reminded me of when you had Tim Harrington and JB Williams on, and I don't understand why, um, Hemenway, was it Margaret Hemenway ... (Kerchner talks over her)
CK: Margaret Hemenway and JB Williams and Jim Harrington take credit for getting the counsel of getting Neal Puckett
Caller: You're kidding
CK: That's, that's what they said, in their, in their blogs, that they were responsible for getting, er, Terry Lakin er, first class counsel (she talks over him) uh, I'm paraphrasing what I read, I mean, if I'm wrong about that I'll stand corrected, but, they, they, they claimed that they were involved with er, hooking 'em up
Caller: Er, I remember 'cause that night they seemed to have a whole different angle, on the defense and all, and this is really - how can an attorney do this to a client?
CK: I don't know
Caller: There should be some repercussions for that you know (he talks over her)
1: 49:50 CK: I would have not hired an attorney to defend me who did not, who did not absolutely believe in the oath to the Constitution that the oath - that the Constitution is the supreme law of the
land and that all laws and orders need to be judged against that Constitution, and that, and that er, you're gonna defend me on that basis
Caller: Yea well he (Kerchner talks over her)
CK: It's the prime directive of every officer; to defend...the prime directive is to defend the Constitution. You know, you go through your whole military career, you never would be asked to defend the Constitution in most, normal times. We're not living in normal times, we got, we got people who are throwing the Constitution under the bus, with, with Obama right at the top, but you know, you normally would be be worried about disobeying a, a law that was committing a crime say, or something like that, but the o, the Constitution, the oath of the Constitution doesn't tell you what kind of, uh, violation of the Constitution you're supposed to support and defend. If you feel that you are being told to do something that's not constitutional, you are supposed to support and defend it.
That's what your oath says, so help you God, nothing else. You're not supposed to obey the President - it doesn't say that in there, it says to support and defend the Constitution and he believed that the Constitution was being violated because Obama was not legally eligible to issue those orders to surge 30,000 troops into combat in Afghanistan. He is not a legal President, so, they should have ans, they should have investigated and answered that question, not tried him, put him on a Court, Court Martial for disobeying the orders. He shouldn't have had to go, he shouldn't have, had to have been, had to go that far, (caller talks over him) he should have been
1: 51: 19 Caller: (interrupting him) His attorney shouldn't have demeaned him like that, at the end (he talks over her)
CK: Exactly (they talk over each other)...should have came in and stood up for exactly what Terry was arguing, that the oath to the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, required him to stand up and do what he did
Caller: Yeah, it's very sad
ASK: Hey Marie, thank you for the call...and thanks for tuning in tonight. I appreciate it
Caller-Marie: Thank you, I'm gonna say a prayer for him and his family too (CK talks over her)...for sure they sure could use it
CK: What did Neal get by doing this to Terry? He still got dismissed from the, he didn't save, he didn't save his client. His client got dismissed from the service, lost all pay and benefits and er, maybe he got him six months, er, maybe it was a plea bargain behind the scene - I don't know. Maybe it would have been a year, maybe it'd have been 18 months instead, but then maybe, maybe not, maybe if he'd argued the constitutionality, and said to all those members of the panel - you read your oath.
Now read the oath for an enlisted man, where it says you also have to obey the orders of the President, and the officers above you, but the officer's oath doesn't. It says your sole responsibility is to support and defend the Constitution - ask each of those panel members, look 'em in the eye. Why? Why?
1:52:31 Why, if the officer's only trying to defend the Constitution, because the day it was envisioned that a President could be corrupt and violating the Constitution and you'd have to stand up to him, your military officers would have to stand up to support the Constitution in face of an illegal usurpation of Constitutional powers by a corrupt, wrong, illegal President. They wanted that ability that they would not go against their oath.
I would have asked each of them - what would you do if you knew the President was performing an unconstitutional illegal act, and you are ordered to be participating in it? What would you do? Obey the orders?...
ASK: (interrupting) That would have been a great defense.
ASK: A great defense
CK: And I don't think, if they, if they wanted to railroad him, they would have still dismissed him and given him 6 months in prison, but he'd have left that room with his honor
ASK: Yes. Yes.
CK: I would have asked ... (she talks over him)
CK: every witness of the prosecution, read the officer's oath, read the enlisted man's oath. Why is the enlisted man required to obey the officers above him, and the President, and of course support the Constitution, but why are officers only charged to support the Constitution, and defend the Constitution? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why the difference?
1:53:48 Bring up the Nuremberg situation. Where people over there said 'I was just following orders. We must obey orders'. Orders from authority, the Supreme Commander, Adolph Hitler, whatever, you know - that's the law! You follow orders, orders, orders, orders. Well, they all hanged for following orders. They were determined to be crimes against humanity. Now this is a Constitutional question, but is our Constitution the supreme law of the land or isn't it?
If it is, you should be judging your orders against all laws of the country, including the Constitution, 'cause your oath requires you to do it, so help you god. If they don't want the officers to live up to the oath, why don't they get rid of the oath? If they don't want a natural born citizen for the President, amend the Constitution. Don't throw the Constitution and the oath that officers take under the bus. We go (She talks over him - can't make this out) in support of our country, for that, for that oath! The whole county's freedom depends on that Constitution; it s the glue that's held us together for 200 plus years. If they throw the Constitution under the bus, and the oath to it, we might, we won't have a military system left.
1:54:55 ASK: ... (he talks over her)
CK If you're only fighting in defense of a man, a charismatic, President, and that's all you're charged with defending - follow orders from him, we're done for, especially when you got a man in the Oval Office like Obama
ASK: ... (he talks over her)
CK: That man is not only illegal, that man, I think, is corrupt and immoral. Evil
ASK: Yeah. Yes, Yes. Well we see what he's doing to our country. The fruit of his labor is visible.
CK: Right. Now they got that Don t Ask, Don't Tell put through. That's going to destroy the warrior, the warrior ethos in the military is gonna be destroyed by that, being forced to er, accept (pause) I, er, (she talks over him) You'd have to be in the military to experience it. There's an ethos there, of right and wrong
ASK: Yea, Yeah.
CK: And, er (she interrupts him)
ASK: Yea, I, I, I never having served I can only rely on the words of er, of, of men such as yourself that, this is not a good thing for the military, not a good thing for national defense at all.
CK: You look at the common core army values, and the ethos of the warrior, and they're destroying it (she interrupts and they speak over each other)
... ... tens of thousands of men will not re-enlist, and will not enlist, because of what they did with repealing that law
ASK: Well I'm not sure, I'll tell you, I've said it many times, If I had a son or a daughter who wanted to enlist right now, under this current commander in chief, I would discourage them. I would do everything but turn myself inside out to discourage them from doing it. If they wanna do it, let them wait until this President is no longer in Office. I wouldn't send my son or my daughter to WAR, under this President, no way. No way.
CK: He's illegal!
ASK: Cdr Kerchner. Yes, yes I believe he is too. Cdr Kerchner we're just about out of time here
(She thanks him for being on show, thanks him for being there for Lakin, for his service to the country then and NOW bla bla honor to know you)
1:57:10 CK: Thank you Andrea, I look at it this way - he's in prisons now, in prison now. I'm outside. I got his back. I got his back, soldier to soldier, I got his back, I'm gonna cover for him as best I can, and speak out, because he's not gonna be allowed to.
ASK: Yeah, yeah.
1:57:26 they begin to say their goodbyes (I didn't wait for the music)