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Case No. : 96-D-217

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS PROCEEDINGS had before the Honorable David B. Debenham, Judge of Division 13 of the District Court of Shawnee County, Kansas, at Topeka, Kansas on the 4th day of November, 2008.

APPEARANCES: The Petitioner, Mr. Hal Richardson, appears in person and by and through counsel, Don Hoffman. 112 West 7th Street, Topeka Kansas 66603. The Respondent, Ms. Dombroski, appears in person and pro se. 3120 SE Minnesota, Topeka, Kansas 66605.

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THE COURT: The Court would call the case of In the matter of Hal Richardson and Claudine Dombroski, 96-0-217. Appearances, please. MR. HOFFMAN: Hoffman. MS. DOMBROSKI: And the Respondent appears pro sa. Unable to afford counsel, Your Honor. THE COURT: I'm sorry, you appear pro se? MS. DOMBROSKI: I appear pro sa. Hal Richardson appears in person with Don

THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Dombroski, this is your motion for a temporary order allowing the minor child to attend the grandmother's funeral. MS. DOMBROSKI: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Is there anything you want to add outside of what's in your motion? MS. DOMBROSKI: itself. THE COURT: Okay. We have got to- the hearingyou're going to have to speak up, because I just can't hear you. I believe the case pretty much speaks for






Not at this time, I don't.

THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Hoffman? MR. HOFFMAN: Your Honor, this case has a huge history to it, and for a long, long, period of time now, the contact that has been allowed between the mother and this thirteen-year-old girl has been supervised. And the supervision part of all of this in recent times has all been really at the request of the child. And so quite candidly, Mr. Richardson is not opposed to there being contact. The problem that we have here is that quite honestly, without coaching, without provocation, this little girl doesn't want to go on the terms that are outlined by her mother's motion. I believe that she would be okay with going to the service. She wants her father to take her. We're okay with that. We will do that. But jf the Court were to grant this motion, I can assure you, from our understanding, it would be against the wishes of this child, it would be against the recommendation of the Guardian ad Litem and it would be inconsistent with the current orders of the case. Unfortunately, about the time a judge gets familiar with this file, we have these transfers. And I feel bad that you have had to be, you / ~\ know, baptism of fire right off the bat with this case because it has


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such a long history. She will soon be 14 and I'm advised by everyone that she is a very mature little girl. And so my client has made arrangements, if the information was given to him about where this thing is going to be, when it's going to be held, he will see to it that she gets there. He has made arrangements to have his presence under scrutiny by local law enforcement and that is how we would suggest this matter proceed. THE COURT: I have also received a letter and made copies for both of you from the Guardian ad Litem, in this case.

Mr. Hoffman, if you want to come forward, I'll give it to you. There's a copy there for each party in that. The Guardian ad Litem is Jill Dykes and she has also - she's provided the Court with a letter referencing this very topic. And what she says in the letter basically coincides with what Mr. Hoffman represented to the Court, that the father has made arrangements to take his daughter to the funeral and the daughter wants to go with her father to the funeral. So I'm going to deny the Respondent's motion to / " MS. DOMBROSKI: Well, Your Honor-






THE COURT: Would you like to respond? MS. DOMBROSKI: the observer here. THE COURT: Stand up and you can respond. MS. DOMBROSKI: You know, before you make your order, I I would like to respond. I have a witness,

would like for you to hear, at least let me present. Because this is the first time I've seen this. And the way it's written is typically just like the dime store novel stuff they've been writing for the last 15 years that has denied me and my daughter every Constitutional and human rights issue there is. Now, I have a supervisor, the only person in the world who has watched my daughter and I. I think that

she would like to maybe say something, at least say how we react together. Now, they're going to tell me that five, six, years ago that Ricky didn't want to see me. Oh, okay, now their going to say that she didn't want to see me again? You guys are into this parent alienation thing this is a big-time mess. No, Ricki and I are doing okay. It's a hard thing to have to go through your mom's funeral. And this court denied her the right to see her grandmother when she was alive. /-, Imagine the guilt that she has. Now, you're going to say oh, daddy,



you can take her down there. He couldn't make the trip ten years ago, which is why he got custody of her. He doesn't want to go down there. So Ricki's doing something, she's getting stronger, she's 14, she's, "I want to go." And I would like to put Kiera, actually, I would like for her to read what was written. And then I would like for her to tell you how our visit just Saturday went, when I finally, I had to text message my daughterTHE COURT: Who is it that you're saying--


MS. DOMBROSKI: daughter -

-no, no, I had to text message my


THE COURT: I know. Who is it thatMS. DOMBROSKI: No, I had to text message my daughter

about her grandmother being dead-THE COURT: Stop. Who is it that you said you wanted to put on? MS. DOMBROSKI: Odyssey themselves, Kiera, the same

people that the Guardian ad Litem likes to write about, that doesn't' like to show up about. (-~ THE COURT: The guardian-



Yeah, I'm reading here that-you know,

there is going to be anxiety, Your Honor. I have anxiety about going to my own mother's funeral. I'm not talking about taking her away for a lifetime, I'm talking about Friday through Sunday. For crying out loud, I'm not talking about anything past that. She deserves the right to put closure on that. That will not only heal the fact that she missed, but they let her dog- I mean, she's excited about her dog coming back and I can, with Kiera the supervisor, I had some photographs, because I don't know how I'm going to explain this to my daughter because they were close until dad got custody and I got supervised visits. Okay? That's it. I'm not going to-that's it. She hasn't seen anybody I haven't

seen. I have a lot of anxiety about it. I can only imagine being 14

and having anxiety about it. I don't think-I think you need to take charge and I think you need to think about the further implications that this could cause, because this is her one chance to make amends on that guilt that she did not get to see her grandmother when she was alive at safe visit, and it was done in quite a hateful manner, but they did let her dog-okay, grandma was in a wheel chair /,--\ then. That motion still went undecided. Okay, that is a chance for




her. It's not, I mean, they know where I'm at. I mean, we're not going too far. It's just a weekend, and when I talked to Ricki that's not what she said. Kids want to please both parents and I don't think you need to listen to just one and not the other. I think you're being very, very unfair to that little gir1. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Dombroski. Please be seated. I asked you at the beginning if you had anything further you wanted to add besides your motion and you said no. Excuse me, it's my turn to talk now. Now, I don't need further witnesses on this particular issue. MS. DOMBROSKI: She's here. This is lies.

THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski, I'm going to ask you to hold yourself in check at this time .


Yeah, right. Whatever.

THE COURT: Fine. MS. DOMBROSKI: Go ahead. Yeah. Oh, I wonder, oh,

excuse me, my mother just diedTHE COURT: Ms. Dombroski. MS. DOMBROSKI: Go ahead, put me in jail.

THE COURT: That's enough for you.




Why don't you put me in jail, because that

would just make daddy happyTHE COURT: The order of the Court will be-MS. DOMBROSKI: -and just think how that would make her

daughter. Is that what you really want for the daughter? THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski. MR. RICHARDSON: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

THE COURT: Okay. The order of the Court is that I'm going to allow Mr. Richardson to take his daughter to the funeralMS. DOMBROSKI:

Oh, cool, that ought to be extremely

anxiety for herTHE COURT: Ms. Dombroski, I'm not going to hear anything more from you. MS. DOMBROSKI: You're not even going to listen to the one

person who has actually observed us. THE COURT: I'm not, I have already told you. MS. DOMBROSKI: That is not letting me present evidence and

I object for the record. I object. I have one person who has observed us and you will not listen to her. THE COURT: Your objection is on the record.

Now, this is the order of the Court, I'm denying your motion for you to take your daughter up to the funeral and spend three days with her. I am allowing Mr. Richardson to take his daughter up to the funeral as outlined by Mr. Hoffman and that is also supported by the Guardian ad Utem, who's the person who represents your daughter's best interest. I find that is in the best interests of your daughter. That will be the order of this Court in this matter. Now, you have also filed a motionMS. DOMBROSKI: pretty good. THE COURT: -emergency

Oh, you're going to dismiss it, too, that's

motion for orders of justice

which was set for a docket hearing on November 13. I think rather than having that on a docket hearing, if you want to present evidence

on that particular motion, I would like to set that for a special hearing date. MS. DOMBROSKI: You know, Your Honor, whatever you do-

THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski, how many witnesses or how long do you think MS. DOMBROSKI: You know-

THE COURT: -you will need to present evidence?



-I have the one witness here right now,

and other than that, that's it. THE COURT: I'm sorry, what? MS. DOMBROSKI: You just really hurt that little girl.

THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski, if you're going to address me, first you will stand up, and then you will speak up loud enough so I can hear you. MS. DOMBROSKI: You know what? Is that called due

respect; is that called constitutional rights; is that called civil rights; how about some human rights? Because the one person who has seen us, you refuse, you refuse, to listen to what she says. THE COURT: Mr. Hoffman, how long do you think this particular matter will take hear?


You just really hurt that little girl.

MR. HOFFMAN: We've had several of those in the past, Your Honor, but they usually run 45 minutes to an hour. MS. DOMBROSKI: He's just lying.

THE COURT: I will set this for an hour. MR. HOFFMAN: We do not intend to put on any witnesses. THE COURT: I'm sorry?



We will not put on any outside witnesses and

I don't know what her outside witnesses are. MS. DOMBROSKI: I have no outside witnesses except for the

International Commission on Human Rights. And the fact that this Court continues to deny my basic, fundamental human rights, civil rights, and due process and fails to let me put witnesses at this time. THE COURT: December 9th at 3:30. MS. DOMBROSKI: So I'll just have to keep fighting ya'lI, keep

showing up on other cases, do a few more protest. Yes, we will. Because I'm not going away. I will not let my daughter down like this Court has. THE COURT: Do you have a calendar? MS. DOMBROSKI:

Of course I have a calendar .

MR. HOFFMAN: Judge, I have-the 9th is just terrible for me. I've got a federal matter. THE COURT: Okay. MS. DOMBROSKI: MR. HOFFMAN: I don't want to interfere.

If we get into a scheduling problem, I could

probably have Jason come over. THE COURT: No, let me look at a different day.




Did he learn Google since the last time?

Did we get a journal entry from the last three hearings? THE COURT: December 16th at 1:30, or anytime that afternoon. MR. HOFFMAN: December 15th?

THE COURT: December 16th, anytime in the afternoon. I also have December 17th 1:30 to 4 o'clock. MR. HOFFMAN: I have a Federal Jury trial at that time.

December 16th in the afternoon can work for me. MS. DOMBROSKI: that's fine.

Why don't you just put it for next year,

THE COURT: What time? MR. HOFFMAN: You said the 16th in the afternoon?

THE COURT: Any time in the afternoon I'm open. MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. So am I. THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski, how does your afternoon look on December 16th? MS. DOMBROSKI: Hey, just like the last five years, Your

Honor. I've been open for due process since it began. THE COURT: Thank you very much. We'" set this for



December 16th, at 1:30, That will be the order of the Court MR. HOFFMAN: Your Honor, may I make-ask questions about the previous ruling? THE COURT: Yes, MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. We don't know where this ceremony is and we don't know the time, so we're totallyMS, DOMBROSKI: MR. HOFFMAN: I just found out yesterday, last night a couple

I'm sorry? I'm willing to tell you, I just found out last


night, because this all just happened.

THE COURT: Okay. MR. HOFFMAN: Well, she says that she will let us know where it's at

MS. DOMBROSKI: So he can even hear it.

I can let you know right now on the record.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay, fine. THE COURT: Is it in Great Bend at St. Rhodes church? MS. DOMBROSKI: No, it's in Great Bend at the new They're going to

Cemetery. It's going to be a gravesite interment (-',

dump both her grandmother's and her grandfather's ashes together


t- "

because they both died this year_ And it's at the grave and then the



Father from St. Rhodes will be there. This will happen at 11:30 in the morning this is the call I got, and then right after, there will be a dinner and then they have already gone down to Dallas to pick up all of grandmother's belongings to bring them back, including Ricki's dog. So then after that they would be getting the dog. It's approximately, there's some other things to do there too. It's approximately a four-and-a-half hour drive. I've made the drive twice a week for probably six years, so I'm very familiar with that road, although I haven't been down it in the last ten years. I can get, they've got my number, Ricki has my number. I will be staying at the

same home that I stayed in fifteen years ago, actually, 912 South Baker. If that-and you know, if there's any, if they get lost or anything

like that, then-THE COURT: Mr. Hoffman, do you have all the information you need as to where it's at? MS. DOMBROSKI: MR. HOFFMAN: cemetery? MS. DOMBROSKI: It's a new cemetery. That's all I have.

It's in Great Bend, what is the name of the


MR. HOFFMAN: New cemetery .


MS. DOMBROSKI: You know, why don't you look it up on the internet, becauseTHE COURT: Ms. DombroskiMS. DOMBROSKI: -I just found out last night.

THE COURT: Ms. DombroskiMS. DOMBROSKI: Did you lose-

THE COURT: -Ms. Dombroski, I would ask youMS. DOMBROSKI: -have you lost your mother lately Judge?

Have you? And then did you lose your daughter on top of that?


THE COURT: This hearing is over. MS. DOMBROSKI: Good.

THE COURT: Mr. Hoffman, if you can find out where

everything's going on, that's good. MS. DOMBROSKI: been there. I don't know. THE COURT: Ms. Dombroski mayor may not want to help on that. MS.DOMBROSKI: , -" No, I'll cooperate I just don't know where There's only two cemeteries. I haven't

it's at. I'm just finding this out myself.


MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. MS. DOMBROSKI: You just- I can't believe you did that to her,

Hal, again. You know, God, you could have just let her go. She's 14. I don't-so who is going to journalize this one or is this going un-journalized, Your Honor? Nobody was told to do it, and I'm not a lawyer; however. (THEREUPON, the proceedings were concluded.)







) ss:
COUNTY OF SHAWNEE ) I, Misty M. Phillips, Transcriptionist of the Third Judicial District of the State of Kansas, do hereby certify that the foregoing transcript contains all of the proceedings requested to be transcribed: That said transcript, consisting

of 19 type written pages, is a correct and complete transcript( as correct and complete as a digital recording

will allow) - from the digital recording made at the time of the proceeding. I further certify that the said transcript was made from a digital recording and the recording was, at times, hard to hear, to understand, people spoke at the same time at points during the proceeding, and the transcription was done to the best of my ability, having not been present at the time of

recording. SIGNED, OFFICIALLY SEALED, and FILED, with the Clerk of the District Court, Shawnee County, Kansas, This 4th day of December 2008.

Misty M. Phillips Transcriptionist



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