the national archives

(c) crown copyright
Attention Is drawn
to;the notes on
.... the inside flap.
MOD Form 3290
(Revised 8/00)
PPQ = 100
DIVISION/ESTABLISHMENT/UNIT/BRANCH
[FUll ADDRESS & TELEPHONE NUMBER}
I
I
I
- - - ~ - - - - - - - . , . . _ , . . , . . . . . ____ _
I
I
Registered File Disposal Form
MOD Form 262F
(Revised 9/01)
FILE TITLE: (Main Heading - Secondary Heading -Tertiary Heading etc)
\:)'f-o>S -
PROTECTIVE MARKING (including caveats & descriptors):
I Date of last enclosure:
PART 1. DISPOSAL SCHEDULE RECOMMENDATION
(To be completed when the file is closed)
Destroy after ________ years
Forward to INFO(EXP)-R after __ years
No recommendation
PART 2. BRANCH REVIEW
t/
D
D
D
I Date closed:
FOR DEFENCE INFO(EXP)-R USE ONLY
IL___ _ __jl I I lc______ _ ____jl
Date of 1st review Date of 2nd review Forward Destruction Date
Reviewer's
Signature: _________ _
Reviewer's
Signature:----------
(To be fully completed at time of file closure)
(Delete as appropriate) "
a. Of no further administrative value and not worthy of permanent preservation. DESTROY IMMEDIATELY (Remember that TOP SECRET 0
and Codeword material cannot be destroyed locally and must be forwarded to INFO(EXP)-R.
b. (i) To be retained until the end of the year
2.:0\0
for the following reason(s):
t/ t/
LEGAL
D
DEFENCE POLICY +OPERATIONS
D
CONTRACTUAL
D
ORIGINAL COMMITTEE PAPERS
D
FINANCE/AUDIT
D
MAJOR EQUIPMENT PROJECT
D
[
DIRECTORATE POLICY

OTHER (Specify)
D
PPQ = 100
(Contim"
(ii) Key enclosures which support the recommendation are:
(iii) At the end of the specified retention period the tile is to be:
t/
Destroyed D
Considered by DR tor D
permanent preservation
t/
c. Of no further administrative value but worthy of consideration by INFO(EXP)-R for permanent preservation.
D
C2/equivalent) PART 4 DESTRUCTION CERTIFICATE
It is certified that the specified tile has been destroyed.
Signature:---------------------
(Block Capitals) {
,
Grade/Rank: .f't '1_ Date: ) lf--\ CfOS
Branch Cn'd Full AddOAS ISO


________ __
(Block Capitals)
Grade/Rank: ________ Date: _________ __
Witnessed by (TOP SECRET" and SECRET only)
LEVEL 5, ZONE 1
Signature:---------------------
M
'\HI ' , ; G
\j ,l' G I
\.
r \ i £\LL
II ·'A
N
Name: _______
(Biock Capitals)
Grade/Rank: ________ Date: _________ __
'(FOR DR USE ONLY)
Astron, J0217876, 11/04
Dr David Clarke
Dear Dr Clarke,
From
Directorate of Air Staff (Lower Airspace)
Operations & Policy 1
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
Room 6/73, Metropole Building, Northumberland Avenue, London,
WC2N 5BP
Telephone (Direct dial)
(Switchboard)
. (Fax)
(GTN)
Your Reference
Our Reference
D/DAS/64/3111
Date
9 December 2002
020 7218 2140
020 7218 9000
-
Thank you for your letter of 11 November in which you asked us to proceed with your request for
UFO related documents.
.
Our search is now complete, so I will address your requests individually and explain the files
examined and documents enclosed with this letter.
1. Copy of the file relating to a UFO report made by -nd-near
Winchester, Hampshire on 14 November 1976.
nor any
this request.
but it contained no reports for the 14th November,
There are therefore no documents we can send you for
2. Copies of the files containing briefing and background notes on UFOs prepared by
the head of S4(Air), with contributions from RAF Ops (GE)2 and DI55 for reference by
Lord Strabolgi in his closing address during the House of Lords debate on UFOs, 18
January 1979.
Our files D/DSS/75/3/1 Parts A and B (Parliamentary Correspondence- House of Lords Debate,
January 1979) were destroyed in 1990. As requested we have examined our general
parliamentary correspondence tile, D/DS8/75/3 Part A and this has revealed several background
documents relating to the debate. As I indicated in my last letter, some of these were not
generated by the MOD and I have asked the Department concerned to examine them for possible
release. I will write to you as soon as I have received a reply. In the meantime, please find
enclosed the relevant papers from this file which we are able to release immediately, plus a
number of papers located by DI55.
Copies of report made by RAF Fylingdales, North Yorkshire, of unidentified objects
tracked by the BMEWS on or about 13 September 1980, and reported to MOD. Also, any
sightings made by MOD Police and civilian (West Yorkshire) police officers on about the
same date.
You also later requested a copy of a report fro of the West Yorkshire Police
concerning a UFO he observed in the early hours of28 November 1980.
Files D/DS8/75/2/5 Part B (UFO Reports-August to November 1980) and D/DS8/75/2/2 Part M
(UFO Reports- Edited Copies-August to September 1980) were examined. The files contained
no reports from RAF Fylingdales for the 13 September 1980. As you requested reports "on or
about the l3
1
h September" I have enclosed copies of all the reports received from Police Officers
for the whole of September 1980.
The files contained no report on 28 November 1980.
4. Copies of UFO reports made in the early hours of30/31 March 1993 by RAF and
meteorological office personnel and by members of the public, from a number of locations
including RAF Cosford and RAF Shawbury. In addition copies of assessment made.
File D/Sec(AS)12/7 was examined and I enclose a copy ofthe reports as requested. I have also
included a copy of a loose minute showing enquiries made and details of a radar replay conducted
by the Aeronautical Information Service (Military).
5. Reports of unusual phenomena on radar in the early hours of 5 October 1996
reported by the SOC Neatishead and UFO reports made by Lincolnshire police and the
Skegness coastguard. Copies of investigation notes and assessment made.
File D/Sec(AS)64/2 Part D was examined and three documents were found. I apologise for the
quality of the Facsimile message from RAF Neatishead. We have checked with RAF Neatishead
as to whether they have a clearer copy on file, but unfortunately they no longer have any details of
these events. With these papers I have also included a copy of a loose minute which was written
following several reports in the press criticising UK air defence systems. Although this does not
strictly fit your request, I have included it because it gives clear details of the sequence of events
and may therefore be of interest to you.
The work has taken 21 hours and 20 minutes to complete and as, indicated in my letter of 16
September, the first 4 hours are free of charge. The remaining 17 hours and 20 minutes, at £15.00
an hour, result in a cost of £260. I would be grateful if you would let me have your crossed
cheque, made payable to "Accounting Officer MOD".
Finally, in your letter of 11 November you asked how the Freedom oflnformation Act will effect
the '30 year rule'. The Freedom oflnformation (FOI) Act 2000 gives a right of access to all
information held by public authorities. Any person making a request for information to a public
authority is entitled to be informed whether the public authority holds such information and, if
that is the case, to have the information communicated to them unless an exemption applies. This
right of access becomes effective on 1 January 2005. Both MOD and the Public Record Office
(PRO) are public authorities under the terms of the Act and therefore the information in the public
records they hold is within its scope.
The FOI Act repeals the access provisions in section 5(1) of the Public Records Act 1958-1967
and hence from January 2005 access to public records, wherever they are and irrespective of the
age of the records, will be governed by the FOI Act. The 30 year closure period as a default goes,
a therefore, although the 30 year point remains significant for two reasons: first, the obligation on_
9 departments to transfer records to the PRO before they reach 30 years old remains (Public
Records Act s 3(4)) and second, some exemptions cease to apply after 30 years (FOIA s 63(1)).
The FOI Act requires the PRO, as the authority holding the records, to respond to requests for
information relating to closed records by reviewing them to determine whether an exemption
applies. This is done in consultation with the department. If it is decided that an exemption
applies, and the exemption is one to which the public interest test applies, the department then
considers the public interest in disclosing the exempt information, in consultation with the Lord
Chancellor. These procedures are set out at s 66 ofthe. FOI Act, supported by s 15 which requires
the PRO to copy a request to the department when a public interest decision must be made.
One of the exemptions relates to 'information intended for future publication'. This might be
relevant to files that are awaiting release, but the exemption says that withholding the information
until the intended publication date would have to be 'reasonable in all the circumstances'. You
might like to note that this exemption cannot be claimed by the PRO if the records are over 3 0
years old (s 64(1)).
I hope this summary has helped to explain the position. If you want to know more about what the
Freedom oflnformation Act says, you might like to look at the Explanatory Notes published by
HMSO (ISBN 010 563 600 2).
I will write to you again regarding the remaining papers mentioned at paragraph 2 above, as soon
as possible.
Yours sincerely,
COVERING CONFIDENTIAL
From
Djrectorate of Air Staff (Lower Airspace)
Operations & Policy 1
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
Room 6/73, Metropole Building, Northumberland Avenue, London,
WC2N 5BP
Telephone
CHOts
E-Mail
(Direct dial)
(Switchboard)
(Fax)
(GTN)
DAS-LA-Ops+Pol1
das-laopspol1 @defence.mod.uk
and Commonwealth Office
Records and Historical Department
Hanslope Park
Your Reference
Our Reference
D/DAS/64/3/11
Date
7 November 2002
Milton Keynes
Buckinghamshire
MK19 7BH
Dear
I would be grateful if you could provide some assistance with a request we have received for
access to papers held on a Ministry of Defence file, some of which originated in the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office.
This office is the focal point within the MOD for correspondence concerning 'unidentified flying
objects'. One of our regular correspondents has made a request under the Code of Practice on
Access to Government Information (the Code) for any documents the MOD may hold which were
used as briefing material for a House ofLords Debate on UFOs, on 18 January 1979.
On examining our files we have discovered a number of documents which were sent to the MOD
from the FCO towards the end of 1978 concerning a proposal by Premier Gairy of Grenada to the
United Nations to establish an agency or working group for research into UFOs. This was
mentioned in the House of Lords Debate so we have every reason to believe that they were sent to
the MOD as background for the Defence Minister's reply and are therefore relevant to this request
for information. I enclosed a copy of these documents and as you will see some are classified
Restricted and some Confidential, and they contain remarks about why the UK and other UN
nations would not support this proposal. In this suite of papers there is also one from the United
Nations General Assembly and one from the United Kingdom Mission to the United Nations, the
later of which came to us via the UN Department of the FCO.
I would appreciate your advice as to how we may consider the release of these documents or
alternatively whether they should be withheld under one of the exemptions of the Code. If it is
considered that they should be withheld, there are two exemptions which seem to be appropriate.
Exemption 1 b - Information whose disclosure would harm the conduct of international relations
COVERING CONFIDENTIAL
COVERING CONFIDENTIAL
or affairs, or Exemption 1 c - Information received in confidence from foreign governments,
foreign courts or international organisations. We must, however, remember that ifwe.do decide
to withhold them and our correspondent exercises his right to appeal, we will have to be able to
demonstrate to the Parliamentary Ombudsman that there would be harm caused by release.
I look forward to your reply. In the meantime if you require any further information, please
telephone me on the number at the top of this letter.
Yours sincerely,
COVERING CONFIDENTIAL
. Ji•
United Nations
. · ~ . ' ' : , . .,
·;-ERAL
ASSEMBLY
THIRTY-THIRD SESSION
OfliciGl Records •
SUMMARY RECORD OF THE 36th MEETING
Chairman: Mr. PIZA-ESCALANTE (Costa Rica}
CONTENTS
AGENDA ITEM 126: ESTABLISHMENT OF Ai'i AGENCY OR A DEPARTMENT OF THE UNITED NATIONS FOR
UNDERTAKING, CO-ORDINATING AND DISSEMINATING THE RESULTS OF RESEARCH INTO UNIDENTIFIED
FLYING OBJECTS AND RELATED PHENOMENA (continued}
• nus record is subject to correction. Corrections should be incorporated in a copy of
the record and should be sent within one week of the dizte of publication to the Chief,
Official Records Editing Section, room A·lSSO.
Corrections will be issued shortly after the end of the session, in a separate fascicle for
each Committee. ·
78-58753
::-·,,•.
Distr. GENERAL
A/SPC/33/SR.36
29 November 1978
ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
/ ...
A/SPC/33/SR.36
· Enn:lish
Pnn:e• 2
.The meetinR was calle<'l. to order at 3.h5 p.I!l_.
AGENDA ITEM 126: ESTABLISHJ.v!ENT OF AN AGENCY OR A DEPARTMENT OF THE ill'liTED NATIONS
FOR UNDI:R'.rAKING, CO-ORDINATING AND DISSEf'liNATING THE RESULTS OF· RESEARCH INTO .r · .
UNIDENTIFIED FLYIIifG OBJECTS AND RELATED PHENOHENA (continued) (A/33/141, A/33/268·
A/SPC/33/1.20) '
1. I·!r. FRIDAY read out a letter from L. G0rdon Cocper, a former
astronaut, expressing the belief that unidentified flying objects
-::ctraterrestrial vehicles \·rr.ose crevs uere visitinr; froM. r.10re.
advanced planets. Hr. Cooper had himself spent two days in 1951 observing UFOs of
different sizes flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over
Europe. A top-level co-ordinated procramme was needed to collect and analyse data
from all over the world concernin3 all types of encounters and to determine how best
to make friendly contact uith such visitors. Han might have to prove to the
visitors that he had learned to solve his problems by peaceful means rather than by
warfare before he could be accepted as a fully qualified universal team me;nber. Such
acceptance 1-rould have tremendous possibilities for the advancement of the world .in
all areas, ancl it 1-rould certainly seem that the United Nations had an interest in
the subject properly and expeditiously. If the United Nations agreed to
pursue the project, many more well-qualified people might agree to provide help and
information.
2. Hr. FRIEDHPJJ (Grenada)* said it uas important to remember that men
tb.e vorld had something in common: they were all earthlings, a fact uhich tended to
be fore;otten when man
1
s many differences were aired,. After 20 years of study, he
believed that. there 1-ras ovenrhelming evidence· to su.ggest that the planet was being
visited by intellic::ently controlled The evidence took the
forn of eye-1-ritness testi,::ony fro!!l responsible persons, physical trace cases
producing in the environment observable long after the UFO had left, radar
visual sishtinL;s, photo[_!;raphs and abductions, apparently by n.liens of earthline;s
and the subsequent return of the earthlings, although there was no knowledge of
cases vrhere earthlings had not oeen returned.
3.. scientific study of UFOs had provided a substantial number of
cases in vrhich the observations clearly indicated that the UFO was a manufactured
object behaving in 1-1ays which could not be duplicated by manufactured objects· on
Earth. The ability of UFOs .to move and manoeuvre at thousands of miles an hour,
vrithou-: any visible external engine, wings or tail, indicated that the. spacecraft had
been manufactured by someone other than man. Hany people wished to knOi-r why UFOs
should visit Earth and what was happening on Earth that could be of interest to an
civilization. Probably there were many things of interest to someone
concerned \·rith the development of a prinitive society. However, one thing was
guaranteed to be of interest to another civilization and that vras the fact that
\-lithin one hundred years men vrould be going to the starr.. He himself, as a nuclear
physicist, had on fission and fusion propulsion systems >-rhich would be
capable of transporting man to nearby star systems vithin reasonable periods of time,
and it VC)Uld be obvious to any alien in· the neiGhbourhood that man vrould be doing so
Hi thin a hundred years. Since the end of the Second vlorld \-Tar, with the development
·,: •rr.e full text of this statement will anpcar in docn"lent A/SPC/33/PV.
A/SPC/33/SRi.36
English '
Pae;e 3
(J::Ir. Friedman, Grenada)
--:------
of nuclear weapons, rockets and electronics, man had become of interest to other,
advanced civilizations. Naturally, such civilizations vrould be concerned with their
own survival and security and would therefore wish to be informed of the activities
of another civilization vhich was just bec;innine space travel,; it was therefore clear
that the UFOs were obtaining data for their own purposes, actin3 as a kind of galactic
. ·'
federation intell1gence agency.
4. People also wondered why UFOs did not make contact. He suggested that there was
no one leader with whom such alien beings could make contact. vfuereas the smallest
reasonable political unit on a galactic neighbourhood basis was a planet or a solar
system, from the alien viewpoint man
1
s was a primitive society whose major activity
was tribal warfare; it would make no more sense for alien beings to speak to
individual countries than for the United Nations to address individual cities.
5. Some people were worried at the significance of flying saucers and wondered why,
in the light of the importance of questions of peace, survival and hunger, people
should concern themselves 't·Tith such matters. He suggested that man r s very survival
mig'ht depend on his taking an earthling orientation. The easiest t..;ay of doing so ;.ras
for him to try to see himself as others smr him. From up abovP., coming into the
planet Earth, there 'tlere no boundary lines. Acceptance of oneself as an earthlinG
vrould become natural when it 't.Jas. recognized that the planet Earth vras being visited.
6. Tnere were also practical aspects such as the significance of man
1
s acquiring
motive propulsion vThich would enable him to travel and to transport from place
to place without using the traditional means 9f transport and without expendin.: ·
valuable resources 't·rhich were normally burned and thrown away. It vras clear that ·
aliens had solved problems such as the development of new and better means of
producing energy. In addition, the Earth might uell have some resources vrhich could.
be exported to alien civilizations; as the densest planet in the solar system, the ·
Earth had more valuable heavy metals than any other planet in the neighbourhood and
might also have plant life and other materials which would be of interest to aliens.
7. Nodern astronomy frequently assur:J.ed, in relation to the possibility of contact
;.Jith e:·tratr::rrestri[\1 tht"'.t all other solar systems were isolated in the
same manner as our o1m, in which the nearest star to the sun was four light years
a•ray. Ho;.rever, within our ovm galactic neighbourhood there were approximately 1,000
stars, of which 46 were simflar to the sun and miGht vrell be expected "to have planets
and life; some of those planets would be much older than Earth. In addition,
research into UFOs had revealed the existence of tHo sun-like stars, Zeta: I Reticulae
and Zeta II Reticulae, which vTere separated cy only three light 1.reeks such close
proximH.y vrould suggest that interstellar travel and communication might h::we been
developed much earlier than on our isolated planet. Three recent professional
publications had expressed the view that our entire galaxy had probably already been
colonized. Perhaps the most important thinG to recognize was that the next generation
would grow up in a drastically different situation; unless something was done to
prevent it, another dozen countries ':·rould soon have nuclear weapons and the 1.rorld
1muld be further divided into Groups instead of becomine; the .earthling civilization
vrhich uas necessary for its survival.
I ..•
....
A/SPC/33/SR.36
Ene;lish

8. FRIDAY (Grenada) invited members of the to make suggest
recommendations concernine; the draft resolution submitted by his delegation ·
(A/SPC/33/L.20); his deleeation was very flexible as to the actual mechanism to be
decided on by the Comraittee for and co-ordinating research into UFOs and
"lmuld be interested to hear the ideas of other delccations on the ruatter. He
assumed that the vote on the resolution 1:rould take place at a later date.
9. The CHAIRiiJA.i:{ said tha.t the substantive consideration of and vote on the
resolution would be deferred. tmtil a later
10. Mr. TUBHAN (Liberia.) requested that the ste>.tements made by the members of the
delegatioi.1 of Grenada should be reproduced in extenso in the records so that
delegates could study more closely.
11. The CHAIR!1Al'-T recalled that the General Assembly, at the 4th plenary of
its current session, had decided to maintain the option t!1at had traditionally been
approved for the Specbl Political Cormnittee to obtcJ.in transcriptions of debate-s of
some of its meetings, or portions thereof.
12. r-1iss HARDSN (United Kingdom) asked •rhat the financial implications of
action uould be.
13. The CHAiill1Al'J said that such expenditure e.s micht be incurred by the prov1.swn
of transcriptions of the Can...'"!littee' s debates was considered to be part of the normal
vork of the General Assembly; there lrere no :direct financio.l implications. If lie
heard no objection, he would ta."l{e it that the CorfJ11ittee approved the request made.
by representative of Liberia.
14. It was so decided.
The rose at 4.15 p.m •
. -
t:i;;L·
125/ a,
NvwoN Ill
u"J6/8 '
RR FCO
GR )3A
UNCLASSIFIED
FM UKHIS NEW YORK 082118Z DEC 78
'TO ROUTINE FCO
TEL NUMBER 2811 OF 8 DECEMBER
J:··· . ..
ADVAtJCE rrinl,.
;/-1 I tE. I' -1---.tll
MY TELNOS 2732 AND 2733 AND YOUR TELNO 1563.
1. THIS MORNING, THE SPC ADOPTED THE DECISION
REPORTED IN MY TELEGRAM UNDER REFERENCE, BY CONSENSUS.
RICHARD
NNNN
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ORK 060230Z DEC 78
IOR,ITY FCO
> Te:LEiirt'AM NUf·1BER 2733 OF 5 DECEMBER.
MY IPT. UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS •
....
FOLLO\a/1 NG IS DR AFT TEXT 1
lHE SPECIAL POLITICAL CCI-1MITTEE RECOMMENDS TO ·THE
. GENERAL ADOPTION OF THE FOLLO'rllNG CONSENSUS:
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS TAKEN NOTE OF THE
NADE, AND DqAFT RESOLUTION SUBMITTED BY GRENADA
AT THE 32ND AND 33RD SESSIONS OF THE GEN.ERAL ASSH1BLY
REGARDING UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS AND_RELATED PHENOMENA.
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY INVITES INTERESTED MEMBER
STATES TG TAKE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO CO-ORDINATE OU
A NATIONAL LEVEL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND INVESTIGATION
IHTO EXTRATERR£STRIAL LIFE, UNIDENTIFIED
FLY lNG OBJECTS, AND TO INFORH THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE.
OBSERVATIONS, RESEARCH, AND ·EVALUATION OF SUCH ACTIVITIES.
THE GENERAL REQUEST THS SECRET.A.RY-GENERAL TO
TRANSNIT THE STATEr--!ENTS OF THE DEL".:GATION OF GRErJADA AND THE
DOCUMENTATION TO THE COMMITTEE ON THE PEACEFUL USES
01:- OUTER SPACt:, SO THA"t THEY MAY CJNSIDER THEN AT THEIR 1979
MEETING.
THE Cm·1f.'J ITTEE ON THE PEACEFUL ll SES OF OUTER SP \CE 'tl ILL
PERMIT GRENADA, UPON ITS REQUEST, TO PRESENT VIEWS TO THE
fTTEE AT ITS NEXT SES.SJON. · T!iE ITTEE'S tELIBERATION
HILL BE HICLUDF.D IN ITS REPORT \.JrllCH WILL BE fDERED BY THE
GENERAL ASSEMBLY AT ITS 34TH SESSION •
RICHARD
FaLE..'S

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...
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GR 17f3
RESTRICTED
UKMIS NEW YORK 060229Z DEC 78
TO PR lOR ITY FCO
...
TELEGRAr4 2732 OF 5 DECEMBER
YOUR TELNOS 1537 AND 1539, MY TELNO 2698 AND MISS HARDEN'S
LETTER OF 4 DECEMBER TO MRS WISEMAN UN DEPARTMENT: UNIDENTIFIED
FLYING OBJECTS
1. THE AUSTRIANS HAVE INFORMED US THAT THE GRENADANS AND THE
NOv/ ALSO HAVE AUTHORITY TO ACCEPT THE CONSENSUS TEXT (\·lli I'CH IS
REPEATED IN MIFT IN CASE YOU STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED LETTER UNDER
REFERENCE). ·THE Ar4ER I CANS DO NOT EXPECT FURTHER INSTRUCT lOt:!$
FROM WASHINGTON AND ALSO INTEND ALONG WITH THE CONSENSUS.
WE PPOPOSE TO DO· LIKEWISE. THE ISSUE IS DUE TO BE DECIDED IN THE
SPECIAL POLITI CAL COMMITTEE ON 8 DECEMBER.
ALTHOUGH THIS TEXT IS NOT IDEAL, ll HAS NO FINANCIAL OR
f-11\NPO\-JER IMPLICATIONS FOR THE UN, DOES tlOT COMr-1JT THE UN TO ANY
· SPfCIFIC ACTION ON UFO'S AND PRECLUDES THE INSCRIPTJOr OF A
SETARATE UFO ITEM ON NEXT YEAR'S AGENDA (THE SUBJECT ·.tGULD BE·
su:.:sur<!ED IN THE OUTER SPACE ITEM AS A PARAGRAPH lfi TH R·EPORT
OF THE OUTER SPACE I TTEE). IN ANY EVF.NT THERE IS >JO ·REAL
PR0SPECT OF NEGOTIATING FURTHER AMENDMENTS.
'
i
I
R I :";HARD I
FILES
Efj & SD
trJD
U:'lD/ODM
EID
H AND C D
I·rn WEIR
MISS BROWN
- . .. - -....-..·-·- -··· ....... .
' • - . --:- . . . .
-.. -- .. ·-- ----· Ublfiib11S£fmLED
; "FM FCO 051720Z DEC 78
TO UKMIS NEW YORK
TELEGRAM NUMBER 1539 OF 5 DECEMBER
YOUR TELNOS 2539, 2566, 2567 AND MISS HARDEN'S OF·
21 NOVEMBER1 UFOS
1. WE REMAIN OPPOSED IN PRINCIPLE TO THE GRENADAN INITIATIVE FOR THE
REASONS STATED IN THE BRIEF. IF THE RESOLUTION IN YOUR TELNO 2567
IS PUT FORWARD YOU SHOULD OPPOSE IT.
. ·-
2. WE SHOULD, HOWEVER, BE WILLING TO HELP THE GRENADANS OFF THE
1-DOK IF IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT ANY FINANCIAL AND MANPO\o/ER -·
IMPLICATIONS FOR GOVERNMENTS (OTHER THAN GRENADA) OR THE UN. WE
COULD THEREFORE ABSTAIN ON A PROPOSAL TO ESTABLISH .A GROUP OF
EXPERTS OR A SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR, PROVIDED THAT AS \·IE FROM YOUR
TELEGRAM 2566 THE GROUP'S \'/OULD BE FINANCED BY THE
OOVERNr1ENT OF GRENADA. IT ALSO HELP IF THE SUBJECT COULD BE . · ..
PUT ON THE AGENDA OF THE 35TH SESSION: IN LINE WITH THE RECOMMEND-
ATION IN THE SECRETARY-GENERAL'S ANNUAL REPORT THAT ITEMS SHOULD
t-DT AUTOMATICALLY GO ON THE AGENDA FROM SESSION TO SESSION.
3. YOU SHOULD ALSO KEEP IN MIND GRENADA'S ABSENCE (WHETHER PLANNED
OR FORTUITOUS, WE DO NOT KNOW) FROM THE FOURTH COMMITTEE VOTE ON
FOREIGN INTERESTS. THE FRG MAY BE WELL PLACED TO SUGGEST
TO THE DELEGATION OF G-RENADA THAT S0t1E DELEGATIONS v/OULD. BE BETIER
DISPOSED TO ACCEPT A PROPOSAL ON THE LINES OF PARA 2 ABOVE IF
GRENADA WERE TO ABSTAIN IN THE- PLENARY VOTE ON FOREIGN C
INTERESTS.
Ol<Ell ... !
FILES ., '· :·:J. ·) -.
llJ'JD
ES & SD
N AND CD
PS/MR . LUARD
. f'lR WEIR
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Miss
PS/Mr
1. How to react to further proposals by Grenada, following up their
1977 initiative on UFOs.
2. At last year's General Assembly Premier Gairy of Grenada urged the
United Nations to establish an agency or working group for research
A into unidentified flying objects. Mr Luard expressed the view that
the proposal would bring the UN into disrepute. Accordingly, the UK'
.
delegation was instructed to oppose:the draft Grenadan resolution. In
the event, no vote was taken on the resolution; as a compromise, the
General Assembly "studied the text" and requested the
to transmit it to state members of the UN and to interested specialised
agencies so that they might communicate their views to the Secretary-
General.
B 3. The Secretary-General's subsequent report contained only replit
from Governments, Luxembourg and the Seychelles) pnd unforth-
coming reactions from two specialised agencies.
C 4. The Permanent Mission of Grenada circulated a letter to Permanent
Missions in New York on 10 November, which was followed up by a statement
to the Special Political Committee on 27 November by the Prime Minister
D of who complicated matters by introducing a new resolution inst£
E of the one previously circulated. Subsequent developments are reported
in UKMIS telno 2566 of 27 November.
F 5. The brief for this item is at flag F.
The Grenadan initiative continues to hold no whatsoever
. . '(· ·,.
for us.
It is obviC?uli_, ho111ever, that some of our .Western ,. , -
. ·."' •· • .l' .·.· ·.· ·• .,;i l .. : ·
r
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(including the FRG Presidency and the United States) are making an
effort to help Grenada off the hook if this can be done without cost
to the UN. It must also be said, in fairness, that the Grenadan
is no,more ridiculous than many other proposals before the
UN. Indeed President Carter has in the past reportedly taken a
personal interest in the subject of UFOs. The proposal· is at least
not positively harmful to UK interests, whereas taking too strong and
open a stand against Mr Gairy could be. Moreover, if we can help the
Grenadans to reach a compromise, it could conceivably help us to
persuade them to abstain on the vote on foreign economic and other
interests in plenary (the Fourth Committee Resolution which inter alia
strongly condems the UK and others for dealings with South Africa).
7. I that we instruct the Mission to continue to resist the
original Grenadan proposal but to give discreet support to efforts by
Western or other countries to postpone or reduce the scope and cost·
of the Grenadan proposal as much as possible. I accordingly a
draft telegram to UKMIS New York.
8. UND were consulted on UN aspects, and concur.
4 December 1978
c c:
Mr Weir
UND
MECD·
News Department
T L Ri
Energy Science and
Space Department
E 024 233 5520
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f.'
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RESTRICTED
28l.000Z
H! UKt·11S NEI.•'YCRK 28C110Z
TC FCO
NUMBER 2566 OF 27 NCVEMBER
f·iY T£Ui0 2539 AGENDA I Tff-t NO 120 & UFOS
1. THE T\·/0 IN THE SPC ON THE ABOVE ITEM TODAY
FOLLChED THE SCENAFff 0 OUTLINED I TCLEGR Ar·l Uf:D£f? R £FERENCE,
CXCEPT THAT NR GAIRY i-1ATTCRS bY HlTP.CDUCinG A NEr:
i?ESOLUTIOH IN HIS OPENING STATEf-1EflT lrlSTEAD CF THE Ci'lE
Pi?!:VICUSLY CIRCULATED TO (NISS HARDEN'S LtTTEH OF
r-t NOVD-!OER TO f·:RS THE NE',-/ RESOLUTION
Cl THE IDEA IN THE INDIAN 'I?EPLY TC THE
(A/JJ/268), PROPOSING JNTEq ALIA THAT THE
D APPO HIT A THR Ei'"'H:H GROUP ·oF EXPE'?TS HEET P;G U ;'-J DC:R
1H E ,'t EGIS OF THE OUTER SP I TTEC f\Jl D R THROUGH
iHAT TO THE 34Th .Sl:SS ICN. (TEXT HJ
2. HAD nEEN PR if'r> lNG THAT THE
J;r:"ENDED TADLiflG A Pl£\-/ .AND t·IETBEHS OF THE
O.JTEf? SP,\CE COt·:t·!ITTEE,PARTICl!LARLY THE ;\USTRLHI

\.lliO
HAD NOT BEEN CONSULTED, (PPOSED TO THIS
ruRTHER 1\TTEMPT TO iHE CUTZR SP1\CE CC't1WIT!EE IN THE
S'J!3JCGT OF UFOS. THE AUSTft CTHERS: PR lVATC:LY
l:lTP·'ATED THEW TO THE GREN.!\D.Ml 1-!ISSICI-4, V.1i0 l3Y THE
CID OF THE fiFTERi·JOCN i•1EET:NG GAVE StGHS OF RSGRf.TTHiG THEIR
F.?cC IP IT MiCE. BEFORt: THE fnr·fAN CLOSED THE I i;iG FRIDAY
hPliSTER CF CDUCATIOt·l) P.iTCRVENED TC SAY THAT THE GREi1ADANS
FLEXIBLE ABGUT THEIR DRAFT RESOLUTICi·i AND .INVITED
C?."l.EG,\YtONS TO CONVEY ANY SUGGESTIONS THEY l1!GHT HAVE TO THE
f11SS ION PErJJING f?[SUt,PTION OF DISCUSSION CF THE ITEM
AT A LATER DATE.
. .
_: ., ; .
'" _. .. TIHE TO v:::·RK OUT M·i
1H£ GERHANS, WITH AUS.TR IAN BACK HlG, FAVOUR A GHCUP CF EXPtr{TS.
TO BE ·tp'po_INTED BY THE OF ICH !'-liGHT IN
OJ£ COURSE REPORT ITS FIN!JI'IrlS TO THE THE
US MISSION, WHEN MR GAIRY CALLED ON THEM ON 24 FLCATED
IDEA OF A SPECIAL RAPPCHTF.UR (TO BE BY THC:
CF GRENADA) \•!HO HOULD STUDY THE PROBLEH M1D REPCPT HACK TO THE
SECRETARY-GENERAL. THE I M·lS WCULD L J Kt TO SEE A ·
I - REP ET IT I OH OF TH t: PROCEDURE A 0 LAST Y EM?: l E: iO Df:FER THE
i -
'
1
:/ITH sm·:E FACE-SJ\V lNG PRCPOSAL FCR FURTHER BY
I'ITCRESTED PARTIES, OR A FURTHER STUDY. THIS LAST
1
dCULD BE' THE
ICN, BUT 'GA I RY IS SAYING Tl-h\ T H£:: HILL tJvT BE FUT OFF
AG A I fl TH IS YEAR.
4, 'NE THAT YOU v:GULD fiCT WISH THIS SUBJ'ECT TG BE
LMID£0 IN THE LAP OF THE OUTER SPACE Ccr.l:•l ITTEE. IT \·:CULD_,BE
H?:LPFUL, IN THE HEGCTIATIONS \·:HICH ARE UGUND iO iAKE PLACE
ruR lNG THE NEXT FE't'l DAYS, TO HAVE AN A':. TO w'HETHER
YOu \•!OULD INCLHIE TO AN :o-R A VOTE IN
Rr:::::.PECTABLE ON THE IN rw I. F. T. \\'[
THAT YOU 'n'CULD. U.S TO WOr?K FOR ALTERNAiiVES CN THE
Ll NES DESCR IDEO IN 3 ABOVE. IT \oiOULD BE HEU,FUL TO
HAVE.ANY AS SOCN AS POSSIBLE.
HI CHARD
'PILES
UND
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rm. t·IEIR
2.

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RESTRICTED
DESKBY 28HJ00Z
UNCLASSd-EJ:Ea .
FM UKMIS NEW YORK 280117Z 70
TO IHMED I ATE FCO
TEL NO 2567 OF 27 NOV
MIPT: ITEM NO 128: UFO'S
GRENADA: DRAFT RESOLUTION
THE GENERAL ASSEr·1BLY
u
OF ITS TO INTERNATIONAL CO-CPEHATIOi·l IN
·SOLVING HJTERtJATIONAL PROBLEMS, ..
THE STATEMENTS MADE BY GRENADA AT THE THIRTIETH, THIRTY-FIRST,
TrliRTY-SECCND AUD THIRTY-THIRD SESSIDrlS OF THE GENERt,L· ASSEf1BLY

UN I DENT IF I ED FLY I!JG ··cnJECTS RELATED \::H ICH
C1NTWUE TO BAFFLE MID GRENADA$ APPEAL TO HAVE THE UNITED
.. \ T I O!"IS CONDUCT AND CO-QRD I NATE R I rlTO TH ESc BAFFLING PHENOME-
NA, AND TO t·lORE WIDELY M·10NG THE NATIO:lS GF \-iCRLD.
INFORMATION AND OTHER DATA GATHERED AND AVAILADLE·0H THE

OF THE GROWING INTEREST TAKEN DY PECPLE OF THE IN
FLYING OBJECTS MID RELATED PHEfiOMENA, ALSO INTERE:JT
HAPPENINGS VARIOUS PARTS OF THE l;iORLJ, AND RECOGNISING
TdE JTr·1£NT TO RESEARCH INTO THESE PHEtl01ENA BY·
CCRTAIN INDIVIDUAL SCIEllTISTS, RESE·ARCHERS AND
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS,
THAT, IN CONSULTATION v/ITH THE SPECIALISED
J.GENCIES, THE UNITED PliTIATE, COfJDUCT AlH' CO-ORDINATE
RESEARCH INTO THE 1JATURE AND OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYiNG OBJECTS
X·!D REL'\TED PHEt10:·1ENA:
2. THE SECRETARY-GENERAL TO INVITE SPECIAL-
AG CNC I ES AN 0 NON-GOVERNMEriT.AL CRGAN I SAT I TO TP. MJS:·tl T TO H IH
BY 31. t1AY 1979 INFOHHATION MID PROPOSALS THE
PROPOSED STUDY 1
, « .. ·;...:_;..:
• FURTHER REQUESTS THE TO APPC AT THE
POSS JBLE DATE A ,THREE-t·1EHBER GROUP OF EXPERTS Uf.JDER THE AEGIS" ,
OF THE ON THE PEACEFUL USES GF OUT£R FGR THE
PURPOSE OF DEF IN lNG GU I lfJES FOf? THE PROPOSE;) .STUDY:
4. DECIDES THAT THE GROUP OF EXPERTS t·1EET DURING THE SESSIONS OF THE
ON THE PEACEFUL USES CF OUTER SPACE TO STUDY I ION
. .
AHD PROPOSALS SUBMITTED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL BY MEMBER STATES,
SPECIALISED AGENCIES AND NON-GOVERNMENTAL
5. FURTHER DECIDES THAT THE GROUP OF REPORT ON ITS WGRK
"THROUGH THE ITTEE ON THE PEACEFUL USES OF CUTf::R SPACE TC THE
T·IIRTV-FCURTH SESSION OF THE GENFRAL ASSH1BLY:
11. DECIDES FURTHER TO HJCLUDE IN THE PROVJSIOi!AL .\GE:·IDA CF THE
THIRTY-FOURTH OF THE GENERAL ASSEt"BLY A'l ITE:--1 Er·JTITLED
''REPORT OF THE GROUP OF EXPERTS OF THE THE PEACEFUL
USt::S OF CUTER SPACE FOR THE DEFJ.'-JING OF GUIDELiriES FOR THE STUDY
CF UNIDnlTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS AND RELATED /
RICHARD
FIIJES
l:ND
.
I-1 & CD
f'iR. WEIR
2
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(A-t ut(Mfs :·;JEw voRK zs"t24z Nov 1a
. TO :ROUT I' tiE FCO .
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. (#' t..ery
Ttl .ti(V 25)9 OF. 24 NOV
...
JHFO ROUTINE ST GEORGES
ITEt-1 NO UFO'S ----!--...,=r.J
V MISS HAR!lE!IS LET:ER OF 21 TO
lo THIS'ITEtl IS fJOW SCHEDULED TO START ON MONDAY 27 UOVEf.1i3ER tr• THE
SPC. IT IS EXPECTED THAT THE FIRST t·lEETING WILL CPEN \.JITH A STt.TEt'.;::NT
BY MR GAIRY, THE PRIME OF GRENADA, (WtiO IS TO .
YORK ESPECIALLY FOR THE OCCASION) AND WILL BE BY STATE:lE.fiTS
BY EXPERiS ON UFO'S 'w'HO GAIRY; A:IO BY A
\I!ALT DIStlEY FlU\ r4R QAIRY HAS ALSC LAID 0'1. THE \-:ILL
t40VE ON TO• AIJCTHER TO ALLCv/ TINE FOR cc:lSULTATIONS.
2. THE IDEA IS TO LET MR GAJRY HAVE !-ilS DAY, Ht: HAS
LCFT llE'.v YCRK BEFORE I!·IG TO I ATE A I SE. \':I Trl TrlE .
G'H2tiADA r.;JSSION hHICH \•,'ILL IDEALLY REQUIRE ilO, UrJ
A"ND ADDITIONAL UtJ eXPENDITURE. VARIJUS A.RE
l5!::·3I!HIING TO BE DISCUSSED IN THE CCRRIDCP.S. \.JE BE A7!LE TC REPCRT
AFTER nCNDAYS NEET I NG w'H I CH LOOK \·JCRTH CONSIDER niG.
RICHARD
r:=-t w:...s
UN..:D
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Your reference
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our,...,_ 274/8
Ef\;Af.'"' 1"0 . :IT EC1 . !A nONS
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' '
1. ,The. attached letter which haa:·.bee-n• circulated· to Missions by
the Permalilt!nt Mission ··of Grenada .is• :In their
preliminary thi·s iyear>)it: wOUld seem that the· Missfon of
Grenada ·has little if ·any support for. its more ambitious
proposal ·for an agency, or department, and is therefore
falling back on a more
1 : ; ... . s ' • .· : :
. ' ,_ i -.! f
2. I assume that you would wish us it possible tQ discourage this
too, provided we are . in. good company and do not take the lead. It.
is however that. it will. acqui.r;e·support as a 'fa11backt
position which the majority will be to· go along with to'
save Grendada's face. ··.,We will keep touch with
.
..
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sheila Harden·
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UNCLASSIFIED
:... RESTRICTED ..
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PERMANENT MI$SION,. _ . 1:0 THE UNITED NAnONS
,.
-...
, ("· '.. '· · >. . . }<' :; .... IECOND AVENui SUITE 502, NEW YOfU<. N.Y. 10017 .
. . : : . ; ... ' ';i;ii.?:;;;: TELEPHONE: (2t2) 751-1111
. ·c:
CABLE: NEWYORl(. . . • .
•.: . .. : . . ..
,.:··
.. ;· ;, ·.. .··.. . . . ..
.; .
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The Permanent Mission of Grenada to .the United Nations presents · · ·
its compliments to the Pennanent Missions ot Member States to the United
Nations and with reference to the Pennanent Representative of Grenada's
letter of August 29, 1978 has the honour to remind that Grenada's item
on the subject of Unidentified Flying and extra-terrestrial
phenomenon will come up for discussion in the Special Political Conmittee
this week beginning November 27th. · :
T11e Permanent Mission of Grenada wishes to bring to the attention of
States in the interest of not foisting upon the United
Nations, at this point in time·, the setting up of a Department or Agency
which would involve heavy costs, the Government of Grenada is
proposing that the contemplated study and .:research be placed in the hands
of a small conmittee or ad hoc group of e_xperts, whose task will be to
submit a preliminary report on a possibl:e framework for the study and
research into the baffling phenomenon. ·.
It is the hope oC the Government of Grenada that this proposal and
a draft resolution fonm.Jlated along these lines will receive the support
.of Member States at the United Nations at this 33rd Regular Session of
the General Assembly.
The Permanent Mission of Grenada further has the honour to attach
the general outline of the draft resolution contemplated.
The Pennanent Mlssiori' of Grenada to the United Nations avails· itself
of this opportunity to renew to the Penna.nent Missions of Member States to
the United Nations the assurances it its highest consideration.
New York, 10, 1978
Permanent Miss ion of States
to the UNITED NATIONS
NEW YORK
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The Ge
neral Assembly,·-;· -t;h. • · •· ,., . ... :
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Mindful of its co1111littment to international in
;,
1ntcrnational problems. . :· : · · · · · ·· · .
. .
..
Aware of the growing interest taken by people of the world in Unidentified
Flying Objects and related Phenomena which continue to baffle mankind, and
in strange happenings in various parts of the -:world •••••••.•••••
Noting the statement made by the Prime Minister of Grenada' at the 30th.
31st, 32nd, and 33rd Session of the General Assembly regarding these. baffling·
phenomena, and his appeal to have the United Nations conduct and
research into Unidentified Flying Objects and related phenomena and to dis-
seminate more widely among the Nations of the world infonnation and other
gathered' ·

Recognising the con11littment to research into these phenomena demonstrated
by indiviJual scientists, educational institutions and National
Goverrunents. ·
·.·
1. ReconunenJs that there be initiated a: special .. offic-ial Und·ted! ·Nutd.ons
study on the nature and relationship of Unidentified Flying Objects and
extra- terrestrial phenomena. ·
1.. Secretary-General to appoint at the earliest possible
date an HaCfhoc group of experts" of not 100re than seven (7) scientific
experts drawn from within the United Nations Secretariat and from private
research organisations with the task of elaborating a possible framework
for the above-mentioned study.
3. Further requests the Secretary-General to make available to the ad hoc
group of experts all the material, including proposals
M:ml>er States as well as previous and current studies available on the subject.
4. further the Con1nittee to submit a pre1 imlru1i:y report on its work
by June 1, 197 .
S. Further \·equests the Secretary-General to transmit the preliminary repoi·t
of the aJ hoc group of ex:perts to J..lcmber States not later than .July 30th, 1979.
6. Decides to include in the provisional agenda of the Thirty Fourth Session
of the General Assembly the item entitled "Report of the ad hoc group of experts"
to investigate the nature anJ relationship of Unidentified Flying Objects and
extra-tcrrc:>trial phenomena. ·
f11rther that a comprehensive report of the co111nittec will be tabled
at ·the 35th Regular Session of the General
.-
,
... .,.
IOC. (?8) 100
15 SEPTEMBER 19?8
'
33RD SESSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS
GENERAL A . .)SEMBLY
AGENDA ITEM NO 128
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN AGENCY OR A DEPART.r1£NT OF TH8 UNITED
NATIONS FOR UNDERTAKING, CO-ORDINATING AND DISSEMINATING
THE RESULTS OF RESEARCH INTO UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
AND RELATED PHENOMENA (ITEM PROPOSED BY GRENADA (S/33/131)).
The attached brief has ~ e e n prepar·ed by the Energy Science and
Space Department in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in
consultation with Departmant of Industry and the Home Office.
Any comments should be addressed to D A Lloyd in Energy
Science and Space Department, Foreign and Commonwealth Office,
Tel 233 3209.
... ,... _.P ' ,.
., .
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-
A UK AIMS
To oppose the establishment of any such agency.
B POINTS TO
2. The British delegation does not think that the establish-
ment of an agency for research into unidentified flying
objects is appropriate to the functions of the United Nations·.
It considers that the exi.<tence of such an agency under UN
auspices would be an unjustifiable drain on UN resources
which could be better deployed elsewhere.
C TACTICS
3. Hopefully a confrontation with the representative of
Grenada can be avoided, but the UK shouln not hesitate to
make its views known .as and when appropriate. Y'm should
seek whatever support can among the Nine.
BACKGROUND
At last year•s UN General Assembly, th8 Grenadan
. delegation, with the full support of Premier Gairy, sought
to establish an ad hoc working group of the UN to evaluate
UFO reports. FCO I1insi ters expressed the view th:Jt to set
up any such body would the credibility of the UN;
accordingly UK delegation was instructed to oppose.
In the event, no vote was taken on the Grenadan Resolution;
as a co:npromise, the General Assembly "studied the t·ext
11
and re.::;.uested the Secretary.,-General to transmit it
11
to ·states
members of the UN and to interested specialised agencies so
that they might communicate their views to the Secretary-
General ...

(11-ij

With the compliments of
ENERGY, SCIENCE AND SPACE DEPARTMENT
1 1r
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l1E!'K OFFICER REGISTRY
IN'oEX • PA J\ctiOf'l Taken
TO Ji.ir-IEDii\TE UKfHS NE\1 YORK TEUIO 1212 OF 33 UOVEr•1DER •
i .. V TEu:o 1205: UFO {J}
''J:: IST!?P.S HAVE EXPfiCSSE"D THE VIE\-! THAT, SlriCE AGPEEt-1Er!T TO SET
UP AGEIICY \-!OULD REDUCE THE CI?ED In I.L ITY OF THE \>/E
OPPOSE .IT • YOU SHOULD BE. GIJ I DED J\CCORD HIGL Y SEtK lNG
'·.11J\TC:VEI? SUPPORT YOU CMI, PARTICULARLY AHOtJG THE tl HIE •
I-lLES
ES SO
LND
i\1,.\EO
P JUDD
P LUARD
BURROWS
MR I R
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FM i C 0
CONFIDENTIAL
. . .
TO IMMEDIATE UKMIS NEW YORK TELNO 1225 OF 1 DECEM.BER,
YOUR TF.LNOS, 2241 AND 2242 AND TELECON HANNAY/STYCHE •
.
·UFO ITEM.
•. .
-........
• I •
1. WE REMAIN FIRMLY OPPOSED TO A GRENADA RESOLUTION ON UFOS, WE
·'
DO NOT CONSIDER SUCH OPPOSITION LIKELY TO BE DAMAGING EITHER TO
THE UK OR TO THE UN. YOU SHOULD, THEREFORE, MAKE NO ATTENPT .TO
CONCEAL THE UK'S INTENTION OF VOTING AGAINST ANY RESOLUTION
CONTAINING AN OPERATIONAL OUTCOME, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT
THIS LEAVES US IN A t-11NORITY.
2. IF THE GRErJADANS CAN BE PERSUADED TP ABANOON THEIR RESOLUTION
TliiNK THAT REFERRAL OF THEIR UFO IN1EREST TO THE JH
CllfER SPACE WOULD PROVIDE THE BEST FACE SAVING DEVICE. THIS
T I"EE 1 S M=TER THE ESTABLISHED UN OODY DEALING. TH OUTER
WE UNDERSTAND THE AUSTRIAN CHAIRMAN'S ANXIETIES
DUT TH l NK THAT l N OF THE COi"IN I TTEE' S EXISTING WORI< LOAD,
.. .
THIS ITSELF SHOULD BE A REASONABLE GUARANTEE THAT THE UFO ISSUE
EE PLACED AT THE BOTTOM OF ITS AGENDA WITH ,A FAIR CHANCE
OF BEING IGNORED INDEFINITELY.
3. HE ARE LESS ATTRACTED TO THE SUGGEST! ON IN PARAG·RAPH 6 OF
TELNO. 2241. IT HAS THE DISADVANTAGE THAT ONCE THE UFO ISSUE
WAS INSCRIBED AS AN AGEND( ITEM· FOR THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IT WOULD
BE THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE AND \vE COULD NOT REPEAT NOT BE CERTAI.N
THAT COi'TI NUJ NG PRESSURE FROM GRENADA, PERHAPS TH THE SUPPORT
OF OTHER DELEG.ATIONS, LEAD TO IT$ DISCUSSION EITHER .AT
THE 33RD OR 34TH SESSION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY,
Oh'EN
F I L··E S
ES · AJ.'ID SD
UN DEPT
NAMD
M AND CD
. MR BURROWS
z.m WEIR.·.
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FN UKl-1 IS NEW YORK
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WI CLASS IF I GD
TO ROUTINE FCO TEL NO 2318 OF 6 1977 (
lrlFO ROUTINE PORT OF SPAIN
NY TELHO 2271
. I
Si'C1 UFO ITEM
1. 111E CHAIRMAN OF THE SPC WAS SUCCESSFUL IN PERSUADING THE
·3:-?EflADArtS AND THE CHA IRNEN OF THE REGIONAL GROUPS TO ACCEPT· HIS
. .
ISE SOLUTION, AND. THIS AFTERNOON READ OUT THE FOLLOW lNG
s·r AT Ef·l EN T 1
. .
THE SPECIAL POL IT I CAL COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS TO THE GENERAL
iHE ADOPTION OF THE FOLLOWING DRAFT CONSENSUS&
1. THE GEHERAL ASSEf·'lBLY HAS TAKEN NOTE OF THE STATEt<IENTS 'MADE IN
111E SPECIAL POLJTICAL COHNITTEE BY THE' PRINE HHHSTER OF • ON
23 1977 MID BY THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION OF GRENADA ON 28
A!ID 30 AND • •• DECEHBER 1977 (A/SPC/32/PV.35, A/SPC/32/SR.37
(
AND A/SPC/32/SR •••• ).
2. THE GEtlEHAL ASSEMBLY HAS ALSO STUDIED THE TEXT OF THE DRAFT
i1ESOLUTION SUB:-IITTED BY GRENADA (A/SPC/32/L.20)e
3. THE GENERAL ASSEHBLY REQUESTS THE SECRETARY-GENERAL TO
TRANS;Hr THE TEXT OF THE DRAFT RESOLUTION (A/SPC/32/L.2'J), TOGETHER
THE ABOVE41ENT IONED STATEMENTS, TO STATES t-lEMBERS OF THE UNITED
NATIONS AND TO INTI::RESTED SPECIALIZED AGENCIES, SO TUAT li-IEY MAY
COt·11·1UN ICATE THEIR VIEWS TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL.
4. THE GENERAL ALSO. REQUESTS THE SECRETARY-GENERAL TO
DR lNG TliEJR REPLIES TO THE ATTENTION OF ALL MEMBER S .. iATES AND
. . . .. .
INTERESTED SPECIALIZED AGENCIES.
I . .
RICHARD
F I L·E S:
E S & S D
mm
I-TAD
l1 AND C D .
' .
PS/MR JUDD
PS/.MR LUARD
MR BURROWS
MR. WEIR
..
·'
. .
. i
. . .
J
...
. I
e
DAS-LA-0 s+Pol1
From:
Sent:
To:
Subject:
DAS-LA-Ops+Pol1
16 September 2002 16:58
DAOADGE1
Request for Information
As you will be aware Dr Clarke has made five new requests for Information under the Code of Practice on Access to
Government Information. One of the incidents he has asked about was on 30/31 March 1993 when a large number
of military personnel, Police, civilians etc made UFO reports. Dr Clarke has asked for a copy of the reports and the
assessment made. Our files contain reports and Nick Pope's letters to Dl55 and notes about D Air Def but no
assessment from your predecessors. We are going to search our other files for this period but I would be grateful if
you could ask your registry to call back D Air Def 111/6/4 Part G which I believe is in archives and may contain a
copy of D Air Defs assessment of these events.
I will be on leave until the 4th October, but prehaps we can discuss further on my return.
1
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4 ,,_, 1245 Arbitration [ 18 JA:NUAR Y 1979 ] Bill [H.L.}
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. ."· Lord HACKING: I say nothing, but I Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
\ leave to withdraw. · ... . ..
:_.·· by_leave, •vithdrawn. Lord HACKING· .A.P1.G'lldment.
) No.29: " · ·
1246
i
!
. .[Amendment No. 27 not moved.] Mter Clause 5, insert the fallowing new clause:
Amendmelll ofs. 1(4) of Arbitra:;on Art 1975
7.3p.m. ·
Lord HACKHJG moved Amendment
No.28:
P...ftt:r Clo.usc 5, insen the fqllowir·,g new dause:
Aml?lldm!'nt principal Act rdariug to
app()inunzilf of new arbitrators
(" . At the end of section 23 of the principal
Act tbere shall be added the foliowia!i;:
"\\'here an Arbitrator or Ump:re has been
removed lUlder subsection 23(1) above, any
party to the reference serve on the oH.cr
parties to the reference, a written to
appoint, or, tbc case may to in
appointing, an Arbitrator or Umpire in place
of the Arbitrator or Umpire so remoYcd, and
if the is not made within >even
clear days after the service of the notice, the
High Court or a Judge thereof may, on applica-
tion by the party \V;1o gave the notice, appoint
an Arbitrator or Umpire who shall have the
like powers to act within the reference and
make an award as had the Arbitnnur or
Umpire who has been removed.".").
The noble Lord said: Before I withdraw
this Amendment, may I mention that I
drafted this Amendment within the ambit
of the new clause that I am proposing to
replace Section 23. It is more appropriate
to have the appointment of another
arbitrator under terms {which other terms
come from other clauses of this Bill)
than to use the terms used in Section 25
of the Arbitration Act 1950. I beg to
move.
The LORD CHANCELLOR: The
Amendment a!Jowing the court to replace
an arbitrator removed for misconduct is,
I am advised, unnecessary. Section 25 of
the 1950 Act deals with the matter and
gives the court adequate powers to replace
a removed arbitrator. I do not know
whether that covers the point that the
noble Lord has made or not; but if he is
still reverting to the use of the concept
of misconduct in this connection, then,
as I have said, I am willing to look at that
again in other connections .
Lord HACKlNG: l will leave the
matter there. I haYe already mentioned
to the noble and learned Lord that I
believe these words are bct.ter than those
in Section 25. That is the reason why I
drafted them. 1 beg leave to withdraw
the Amendment.
(" . In subsection 1 (4} Arbitrati0n .'.ct 1975
after '' i.> a party " tb.:re shall be added the
words'' to the proce,?dings ".").
The noble Lord said: I shall briefly
address the Committee on Amendments
29 and 30. The noble and lcarne:.! Lord
has already replied to my Amendment
No. 17 which is related to these Amend-
ments and he has !eft me in a position of
suspensron. I do not know the noble
and learned Lord's mind, but I am happy
to remam in suspension until H:e Report
stage or until such time as he is able to
take me out of it. I beg to move.
The LORD CHANCELLOR: I hope
that the noble Lord will not suffer unduly
in a state that I prefer to call suspended
animation rather than suspension.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendment 30 not moved.]
Remaining clauses agreed to.
Home resumed: Bill reported with an
Amendment.
UNIDENlJFIED FLYING OBJECTS
7.7 p.m.·
The Earl of CLANCARTY rose to
call attention to the increasing number
of sightings and landings .:m a world-
wide scale of unidenti:kd flying objects
(l.JFOs), and to the need for an intr2.-
governmcntal study ofUFOs; and to move
for Papers. The noble Earl said: It is
with much pleasure that I introduce this
debate this evening about unideatified
flying objects-known more briet1y as
UFOs and sometimes as flying
I understand that this is the first time the
subject of UFOs has been debated in your
Lordships' House, so that this is indeed a
unique occasion. Before fur-
ther I think I should declare <m interest,
in that I have written a number of books
about UFOs. i am grateft.:l to those
noble Lords who arc going to !oilow me
in this debate and I am sure tbt it wiH
be. a most stimulating discussion.

-:.
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.
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1247 Unidentified [LORDS ] · Flying Objects 1248
Before speaking about the need for an in 1947, millions of people all over the
intra-governmental study of UFOs, which world have seen the UFOs. This brings
is the basis of my Motion being debated me to the class of witnesses that see
today, I think it advisable to give your UFOs. It is true that occasiona!ly one
Lordships some background to this fas- gets the odd crank or hoaxer; but the
cinating subject of UFOs. I shall briefly majority of witnesses are sincere people.
cover a little history, the classes of wit- Then again many witnesses are pilots,
nesses, the characteristics of UFOs and police officers, coastguards, radar opera-
some important sightings, and then I shall tors-in short, trained observers. Manv
deal with the vital subject of the attitude astronauts have seen UFOs. Many
of governments to these important people ask me: " Why is it that astron-
phenomena. omers do not see them? ,. The answer
is that they do. In a letter published in the
Although UFOs have come to the fore Daily Telegraph on 4th January last year
since the end of the last World War, I listed eight well-known astronomers
there are reports of them all through had seen UFOs, including Dr. Clyde
history. Among the papers of the late Tombaugh, discoverer of the planet Pluto.
Professor Alberto Tulli, former director
of the Egyptian Museum at the Vatican,
was found one of the earliest known
records of a fleet of flying saucers. It
was written on papryus long ago in
ancient Egypt-actually, it was at the
time of Thutmose III, circa 1504 to 1450
BC, who, with his army witnessed the
sighting of what we today would call
UFOs.
Now, I am not going to bore your
Lordships with accounts of UFOs in
every century because I want to get on
to the very tl-Jngs happening
today. In modern times things began
to happen during World War II when both
allied and German pilots saw strange
circular lights around their planes. We
called them Foo fighters. Both Allied
and German piiots thought that they were
secret weapons of the other side. After
the war, on 24th June 1947, an American
called Kenneth Arnold, piloting his own
plane, was on a mercy mission trying to
find another aircraft that had crashed
somewhere in the Cascade Mountains in
the State of Washington. Suddenly, he
spotted nine gleaming objects, crescent
shaped, flying in a zigzag fashion between
his plane and the mountains. He managed
to calculate their speed because he was
· able to get a fix-! think that is the tech-
nical term-between two mountain peaks,
Rainier and Baker. It appeared that the
objects were travelling at some 1,400 miles
per hour-a very fast speed in 1947.
Some time after landing, Arnold, in
answer to a question from the Press,
the motion of the flying objects
as being like saucers skimming over water.
Next day the Press headlined them as
"flying saucers". Since Arnold's sighting
Now a few words, my Lords, about the
UFOs themselves. Actually, the name
" flying saucer" given by the Press in
1947 was a misnomer as they come in all
sorts of shapes and sizes: cigar, oval,
disc, sphere, doughnut, crescent and
tadpole shaped. You name it, my Lords,
the list is endless. I should like to say a
few words about their characteristics.
UFOs often have \;ery bright lights and
sometimes when in flight change colours
all the way through the colour spectrum.
Sometimes the light from a UFO is so
intense that its shape is obscured from
view. This light energy is so powerful
that witnesses have been burned on the
face and hands if in too close a proximity
to a UFO.
Another characteristic of the UFOs is
eiectrical interference with various
machines. UFOs have been notorious for
stopping cars at short range. The driver
will hear his engine splutter and it stops
running. Besides cars, many other
machines have been affected, including
aircraft, motor cycles, buses, lorries and
tractors. UFOs are said to be the cause
of some of the power blackouts in the
USA, Mexico and other countries. Indeed,
UFOs have been seen flying along power
lines in the USA just before black-outs.
Furthermore, I have a picture on the wall
of my study at home of a UFO doing
just that!
Now, I will mention one or two of the
more impressive sightings since the war.
On the 29th June, 1954, a BOAC Boeing
stratocruiser " Centaurus " had taken off
from New York for London. Dinner had
been served. The time was just after
sunset when the skipper, Captain James
Howa
the p)
There·
ones.
out to
who fi
force i1
five mi
stayed
80 miJ,
object
radio c
La brad
in the
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the figt
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ones we
a crew<
saw the
In 1\
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UFOS\
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storage
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dimmed
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Levy ar
27th Fel
give yo1
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and soo.
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and
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1eing-
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after
1rnes
)
1245t Unidentified [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1250
Howard, first sighted the UFOs. Some of was to make his escape. He put his plane
the passengers by then were asleep. in to a dive. Then something extraordinary
There \va:; one big object with six smaller happened. The second UFO turned around
ones. Captain Howard pointed them and went back inside the " mother ship ".
out to his co-pilot, First Officer Lee Boyd, The jet pilot's instruments started working
who flew with the famous Pathfinder again. So once more he tried to pursue
force in World War II. The objects were the UFO, but it moved away too rapidly,
five miles from the " Centaurus ". They and so the Phantom jet returned to base.
stayed parallel with the aircraft for
80 miles. From time to time the big
object appeared to change shape. The
radio offlcer checked with Goose Bay,
Labrador, to see if any other aircraft were
in the area and was told, No. Goose
Bay sent a fighter up to investigate.
All the crew saw the objects. Just .before
the fighter arrived, the objects began to
disappear, and it seemed that the smaller
ones went inside the large one. Altogether,
a crew of eight and 14 of the 51 passengers
saw the UFOs.
In November 1975, at Strategic Air
Command Bases in Michigan, Montana,
Ncrth Dakota and Maine, a number of
UFOs were sighted over a 13 day period.
Several were hovering near nuclear weapons
storage areas. When interceptor planes
were sent up to investigate, the UFOs
dimmed their lights and became invisible.
One of the most amazing UFO incidents
ever occurred in Septembr, 1976. A
report of this event written by Geoffrey
Levy appeared in the Daily l:.xpress on
27th February, last year. I shall try and
give you his ac.count in my own words.
A very large glowing object was seen over·
Teheran, Iran. Hundreds of witnesses
telephoned the authorities. At 1.30 a.m.
the Iranian Air Force scrambled a Phan-
tom jet to investigate the UFO which was
some 70 miles away. As the jet reached
about half the distance to the UFO, all
of the Iranian plane's communications and
instrument systems malfunctioned. The
pilot had no alternative but to return to
base.
A second Phantom jet took off flying
faster than the speed of sound. The UFO
began to move at a very fast speed indeed,
and soon outpaced the jet. Then, an
extraordinary thing happened. Suddenly
a second smaller UFO came out of the
big one, and headed straight for the jet.
The jet pilot tried to release an AIM-9
air-to-air missile at the glowing object.
No success at all. The weapons control
panel was not working and all electronic
systems were out of action. There was
only one thing for the pilot to do, and that
There are literally vast numbers of these
astounding reports. Indeed, my Lords,
this worldwide UFO invasion of every
country's air space is of growing importance
and therefore I suggest that Parliament
keeps a continuous watch on the situation.
J have thought of one way of doing this.
In the same way that there is a House of
Lords Defence Study Group ably chaired
by the noble Lord, Lord Shinwcll, perhaps
we could have a House of Lords UFO
Study Group to meet periodically. If
any of your Lordships are interested,
please let me know!
I should like to touch on the attitudes
of Governments towards this subject and ,
to stress the need for an intra-govern- ·
mental study, which is the object of my
Motion. I am only going to talk about
four Governments, your Lordships will
probably be pleased to know. First, let
us take a look at the United States. I
think that one of the reasons for " playing
down" UFOs some years ago in the United
States was the fear of panic among the
public. Thi<> was partly based on an
actual panic that did occur in 1938 due to
a very realistic broadcast by Orson Welles
of H. G. Wells' War of the Worlds.
Thousands of people left their homes.
However, after the war, the United
States Air Force investigated pilots'
reports without any debunking. Then
the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA,
stepped in. The CIA controls the intelli-
gence departments of the United States
military services. They ordered the
United States Air Force to clamp down on
UFO reports. That was, I believe in 1953
and it has been going on ever since.
Pilots who reported seeing UFOs were
ridiculed, and after a time other pilots did
not report them for fear of damaging their
reputation. We had high hopes during
President Carter's election campaign that
there was a strong possibility of a break-
through to the truth about UFOs. He
disclosed during his campaign that he had
seen a UFO a few years previously in
Georgia, and he added that if he sot into
... ).
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· 1251 Unidentified [LORDS] Flying Objects 1251
[The Earl of Clancarty.] I The noble Lord, Lord Donaldson of
the White House he would release to the \ Kingsbridge, kindly confirmed to me in
public all the UFO information in the 1 his reply that the. GEPAN unit-those
Pentagon. Unfortunately, that election I are the initials of the group-had been
pledge bas not been fulfilled. I set up under the French Ministry of
. . . I Industry, Commerce and Artisans at the
"(,!'\ \Yha.} has been happemngrm the centre in Toulouse. M. Galley also added
, J"' pmon . the leaamg I the were a very
' m that country . IS Doctor ZI.,el, Important part m UFO mvesttgations
·- Professor of Higher Mathematics questioning witnesses and examining burnt
at the I circular marks on the ground where
Ls.titute. For a time he nad been UFOs had landed; or were alleged to
trymg to a big UFO resca_ych group have landed. So the French have been
on a worldwide scale .. Man?' UFOs have I taking it all seriously and keeping their
been seen over the Soviet Unwn. In July, own people informed. Nobody panicked
September and ,October 1967, for I and people did not rush like lemmines
mst.ance, giant space were seen over into the sea.
vanous parts of the USSR by astronomers
and other witnesses. On lOth November Is it not time that Her Majesty's
of that year, it was annou:r..ced that Government informed our people of
was to be a full investigation of UFOs. what thev know about UFOs? The
This -..vas announced on Russian tele- UFOs have been coming in increasing
vision. The oueration was to be headed numbers for 30 years since the war, and
b):' Major Anatoly Stolyerov, I think it is time our people were told the
wtth Doctor Zl!f_:l as Number Two. , truth. We have not been invaded from
Thousands U.t-0 cases to be I outer space. Most incidents have not
analysed by sc1ent1sts and So':1et Air Force \ been hostile. Indeed it is us, the earthlings,
officer?. However, the Russmn Academy who have fired on them. There may have
for Sciences came down hard on the new \ been a few allegedly hostile incidents, but
UFO group. a11d on 27,_!h. 1968, I maintain that if there is a disturbing
orncml attitude of the 1 element in a phenomenon which is pretty
authont1es, ana .. he cover-up was on. friendly on the whole, we should be told
There is, however, one country which the truth. the .tfl:lth is, I am
can be relied upcm to take a line independ- sure that an mfon.ned IS a prepared
ent from others over many matters, and . one.

thmg: It on record that
\
lJFOs proved to be
110
exception. In I s.Ightmg landmg reports are
Febmary, 1974, rhe then French :i\.iinister \ mcreasmg all. the time. Just suppose. the
of Defence, TvL Robert GaHev, W::'l.s int.::r- ufonauts to make mass landmgs
viewed entirely about UFOs· on France- \ tomorrow this country-there could
Inter radio statim1. The interviewer was 1 well be pamc here, because our people
Jean Ciaude-Bourret. At the time there I have not been prepared.
was tremendous publicity in France, but
for some reason our newspapers did not
1
. The noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, is to
even mention the broadcast. M. Galley reply for Her Majesty's Government at
stated that the UFOs were real b'..lt I the end of this debate. I should like
admitted that it was not known where ask the noble Lord whether he will
they came from. He said that since 1954, his right honourable r
there had been a unit in the French Mmister of Defence about the possibility
Ministrv of Defen:::e collecting UFO of giving a broadcast interview about
reports: Some of this material was sent to UFOs, as. counterpart across the ;
the National Cc11tre for Space Studies in Channel did IJ?- 1971. would go a
Toulouse, the French equivalent of the long way to discredit the view held by a
American NASA. In this Centre there . lot of people in this country that there
was ah•o a unit-a scientific one--studying \ is a cover-up. here and in some V:'aY
both UFO sighting: and landing reports. we are playmg along with the Umted
"' \'1 States over this. I should also like to see
· A little over a year ago, I received some ) an intra-governmental study of the UFOs.
information that this particu)ar unit was \ All should get to¥ether and
under go'.'ernment sponsorships and so I it pool the1r knowledge about UFOs, and
put down a Question for Written Answer. 1 the results should be passed on to the
-.
1253
public.
your Lol
and 1 bel
7.29p.m
Lord·
bound t
speech
\Vondere
holding
on this
audknc:
having}
Lord C
of thou.
I may\'.
anyway
right at
Ther
suppor1
in tra-g<
means,
betweei
would
United
suppor
think t
view t
to ju:
money
I cc
volunt
J
which
to be 1
. '\ be OI
' those
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1 vf Di
in the
mysci
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from
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have
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sight
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info
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ry of
;,t the
added
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burnt
where
to
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jesty's
le of
The
easing
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e not
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is, but
urbing
pretty
le told
I am

d that
ts are
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ndings
could
people
, is to
1ent at
like to
e will
1d the
sibility
about
ss the
i go a
d by a
t there
1e way
United
'to see
UFOs.
ter and
Is, and
to the
1253 Unidentified [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1254
public. Finally, I should like to thank as I say, that these unexplained sightings
your Lordships for your kind attention, could be-and, indeed, would be-ex-
and 1 beg to move for Papers. plained, if we had more knov.·Iedgc about
them; for example, better photographs.
How many ciear photographs of UFOs
have yo:1r Lordships seea? Alii have seen
are hazy, fudgy which could,
or co11Id not, be genuine.
7.29 p.m.
Lord TREFGARNE: My Lords, I am
bound to say that I face making this
spee<;h with some trepidation. I bad
wondered whether we could j:!stify the
holding of what is in eiTcct a full deb'-l.lc
on tills matter; but having seen the
audience we have tonight, and indeed
having heard the speech of the Earl,
Lord Clancarty, I can see that that so;·t
of thought would not go down too well.
I may v.:ell be shouted down before I finish
anyway, but let us see if we can avoid that
right }!t the start.
The noble Earl asked us in his Motion to
support a proposal particularly for an
intra-governmental study-I suppose he
means, as indeed he has described,
between Governments. No doubt he
would wish to see the co-operation of the
United States. But I should not want to
support that kind of proposal. I do not
think the time has yet come when we can
view this matter with sufficient certainty
to justify the expenditure of public
money on it.
I certainly agree that the numerous
\roluntary bodies, including those with
f
. \vhich the noble Earl is ought
to be encouraged, and indeed I should not
/d be opposed to infon:1al links between
j those bodies-or, at least the
l ones-and others, such as the Ministry
l of Defence. But I am ashamed to say,
in the midst of all this faith, that I am not
myself a believer in UFOs described, as
I believe they are, as objects or vehicles
from another planet or from another
universe.
I have some 2,500 hours as a pilot.
I have flown across the atlantic a few
times as a pilot. But, unlike with the
aircraft reported by the noble Earl, I
have never seen one. I presume-indeed,
I believe-that a good many of the
sightings can be explained by logical
scientific theory and I am, so far at least,
convinced that those that cannot so far
be so explained could be, if our knowledge
were more advanced or if we had more
information about the sightings in question.
It is these unexplained sightings upon
which ufologists rely so heavily in asking
us to accept their theories. But I believe,
Ufologists often rely upon radar infor-
m<l.tion for evidence in their case, but I
must tel.l your Lordships radar plays
more tncks even tkm the camera, and I
do not believe thc:t rad2tr info;rnation in
this is •:aEd. For example, 'the
recent s1ghtmgs m New Ze<lland, which
were widely reported just before Christmas
including n:;ther strange-looking
photographs. wmch appeai·ed on television,
were al.so sa1d t? have confirmed by
radar mformat10n wlucn was available
to the aircraft in question. But I know
from my own experience that radar is
frequently used, and, ind<:;;d, is so designed,
for detecting anomalies in atmospheric
conditions :!nd in we::;.thtr patterns, and
I am not persuaded that radar is a valid
supporting argument in this case.
Since time immemorial, man has as-
cribed t!10se phenomena that he could not
explain to some supernatural or extra-
terrestrial agents. as scientific
wisdom has advanced, these phenomena
are understood more fully, until now
today, no one takes witchcraft seriously
and there are no fairies at the bottom
of my &arden. . It is not so long ago that
magnetism, as It occurs naturally in the
form of lodestone, was thought to be the
I
. work of the Devil, as indeed were some of
the hot springs found in Iceland, Australia
and elsewhere.
I An eclipse of the sun or the moon
· now fully understood, was once thought
t<? be an expression of. the Almighty's
displeasure. Perhaps this derives from
the description in the Gospels of the events
following the Crucifixion. I recall the
44th and 45th verses of the 23rd chapter
of St. Luke's Gospel, and I shall read
it ifl may: -
" And it was about the sixth hour, and there
was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth
hour.
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the
temple vvas rent in the midst ".
St. Matthew described it rather well aiso:
. behold, the veil of the temple was ·rent
m twam from the top to the bottom· and the
earth did quake, and the rocks rent". '
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Unidentified
[LORDS 1 Flying Objects 1256
1:
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[Lord Trefgarne.}
No one would now seriously doubt that
those happenings were, in fact, an eclipse
of the sun and an earthquake respectively.
I would not deny that there may'have been
divine intervention in respect of the timing
of those events, but certainly I would say
that they were caused by terrestrial forces
which we now fully understand.
Without wishing to pre-empt anything
that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop
of Norwich may say, perhaps I may
pose the question as to whether the exis-
tence of another race or races outside our
universe is compatible with our Christian
principles. I speak only as a simple
member of the Christian faith, but I
think I believe that He loves us and us
alone. I am not aware that there is any
suggestion in the words of Christ or in
the words of the Almighty, as recorded
that we must share his goodness with
people from another universe. There is
no suggestion that there is, indeed, any
other such people. I acknowledge, how-
ever, that, for example, the works of
Darwin were once thought incompatible
with the Christian faith, and so perhaps
my view of the credibility of these things,
from a Christian point of view, is open to
correction. Perhaps the right reverend
Prelate will be able to help us when he
comes to speak.
I emphasise that I do not for a moment
doubt the sincerity and conviction of those
who believe in these objects, who believe
that they are visitor& from another universe
or, at least, some supernatural force
beyond our reason. I simply do not
happen to agree with them. I certainly do
not agree with the learned professor,
t
!Speaking on the radio the other morning,
!who said: " Anyone who believes in
J UFOs is a loony ". But as for the sugges-
11 tion that an international study group
!
,, should be set up, ·I do not think that I
could countenance that as a serious
' proposal at this time. I emphasise,
however, that I would be happy to
encourage informal links between, for
example, the RAF and the very worthy
groups who believe differently from the
way I do.
Before I sit down, I should just like to
say how much I am looking forward to
the maiden speech of my noble friend
Lord Oxfuird, who is to speak later in
the debate. His name has, of course,
appeared on the Order Paper before
today, and I hope that it appears on the
list of speakers a good many times in the
future. The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty
has done us a service by bringing
matter forward, but I wouid counsel
caution and care.
7.38 p.m.
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The Earl of KIMBERLEY: My Lords,
as the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, has
said, the majority of noble Lords in this
Chamber will be greatly indebted to the
. Lord Clancarty, raising
th1s fascmatmg and controvers1al subject
this evening. Before I begin, perhaps I
should say that I have an interest in it
because I am a director of a company
which is to make an identified flying
object-a thermo skyship, which is saucer
shaped. I shall not get that muddled up.
But in spite of sceptics, such as the noble
Lord, Lord Wigg, the other day in a
newspaper, and Sir Bernard Lovell from
Jodrell Bank, who says that UFOs do
not exist, we must agree that they do,
because otherwise there would be no
unidentified flying objects. Furthermore,
we should not have throughout the world pre
radio telescopes listening to try to pick up ,
signals from intelligences in outer space. sai
1
As the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, un<
said, UFOs are not products of the 20th fiyi
centurj imagination. They have been kn(
obserwd here for years-by the North Ev<
American Indians, by the monks of else
Byland Abbey in 1290, who were terrified gal:
by the appearance of a huge silver disc. con
Right through history up to today, pro
millions of people have seen UFOs, and
I will go so far as to say that I am the sile:
first to q.dmit that the very large majority anti
of them can be explained as natural or
man-made phenomena-meteorites, sate!- ma1
lite debris, weather balloons, military our
flares, et cetera. But there are still many thei
which are completely unexplained. . kno
l
. It has been reported that the United v6.hl
States and the USSR signed a pact in
1971 to swop UFO information, but the If ! Ir
pact stated that they were to keep the 1 stan
rest of the world in the dark. I believe By
that the pact was signed so that neither suhx
super-Power would make mistakes about ca:n
UFOs being atomic missiles. I am also led proj
to understand that quite recently the three bon:
United States balloonists who crossed cone
the Atlantic were followed for up to 12 Unit
H.L.
._ __ ; ....
. '

.!; I!\)
,: 1257 Unide11ti./ied [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1258

,, · hours-:. by UFOs but were ordered by threefold: first, to see whether UFOs
United· States Government agents not to \vere a threat to the security of the United
discuss them. States; secondly, to see whether UFOs
'- could contribute technical and scientific
-· .J We know that war in space, once a knowledge; and, thirdly, to explain to the
figm;;nt of the imagination and a subject l!eneral American public what was going
much beloved by science fiction writers, on in their air space. However, as UFOs
is very a fact now. .Both super- appeared to offer no threat to security,
Powers have, or will have, killer satellites Project Blue Book became just a public
and laser beams operating in space. May relations exercise to not inform the public,
I ask the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, despite numerous unidentified radar track·
whether he agrees that this may perhaps ings and close approaches made by UFOs
be one of the reasons for the reticcnce of to both civil and military aircraft. The
the United States over being more forth- military staff in America said that, as
coming about their UFO information? there was no threat or danger, they were
In 1977 Sir Eric Gairy, the Prime not interested in pursuing the subject
Minister Grenada, backed by Presi- any further. So Project Blue Book was
dent Carter, wanted the United Nations abandoned.
to declare 1978 as the Year of the UFO. This may be good enough to fob off the
They both failed. However, the proposi- American public, but it is not good enough
tion was finally tabled for 29th September to fob off the British public. Too many
1978. This proposition was postponed people-ordinary people as well as famou\
through October, November and Decem- people-have seen UFOs. Ten Govern
ber. It was finally threatened by the veto ments now openly admit that UFOs exis
of the United States and Russia. Hope- and are real: France, Norway, Sweden,
fully, however, it will no·": be considered Brazil, the Argentine, Venezuela, Mexico,
, in June of this year. I believe that at last the Philippines, Peru and Grenada. Other
·.f there has been a unanimous vote that the Governments know that UFOs exist
proposition will not be rejected. but do not admit it publicly. President
As the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, Carter has personally seen a UFO.
said I agree entirely that we do not Let me give a small sample of promi-
many of these unidentified nent, scientific and sane peopic who
flying objects because of our lack of have seen UFOs or believe, through
knowledge. UFOs defy worldly log!c. evidence, that they exist: Cor,1mander
Even if one accepts that there may be life Robert McLaughiin, United States Navy
elsewhere in our galaxy, or even in other missile expert; John McCormack,
galaxies, the human mind begin t? United States House of Representatn'es;
comprehend UFO charactenstlcs: the late Air Chief Marshall Lord Dowding;
propulsion, their sudden appearance, the late President Truman; Dr. Stanton
disapperance, their great speeds, the1r Friedman, United States Nuclear Physi-
silence, their manoeuvres, their apparent cist; Ed Mitchell, Apollo astronaut;
anti-gravity, their changing shapes. They Gordon Cooper, Apollo astronaut; Dr.
defy our present knowledge and laws of Allen Hynek, Professor of Astronomy,
matter. Of course, this naturally upsets North West University; Waiter Cronkite,
our earthly scientists because it is outside United States newscaster; Neil Armstrong,
their earthly terms of reference and first man on the moon; and, lastly, Dr.
knowledge but to try to present UFOs in a Felix Zigel, Professor of Higher Mathe-
more mundane light Jet us briefly examine matics and Astronomy, Moscow Aero-
the last 30 years. nautical Institute. Can any of your
In 1947, the United States Air Force
started an official project called " SIGN".
By 1949, 243 reports of UFOs had been
submitted, but no conclusive evidence
came to the public's knowledge from this
project. Project Blue Book was then
born, and its findings produced the same
conclusions. So it appears that the
United States Air Force concern was
H.L.8 P
Lordships sincerely believe that these
aforementioned . people all suffer either
from hallucinations or believe in fairy
stories?
Despite the United States and the
USSR embargo on UFO information,
funnily enough the Russians appear
more inclined to think that UFOs have
extra-terrestrial origins. Further, some
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1259 Unidentified [LORDS ] Flyi11g Objects 1260
[The Earl of Kimberley.}
Russian scientists see a connection between
UFOs and paranormal phenomena. In
fact, there is an ever-growing belief that
space travel has a connection with tele-
pathy and telekinesis, because cosmonauts
in orbit have discovered through scientific
tests that they have an increased level of
telephathic communication. Jf\ve assume
that extra-terrestrial intelligences who
travel to earth are more advanced than
we are-and in that respect I think that
they must be-then UFOs could be tele-
kinetic phenomena: in other words,
controlled by thought pulses.
Since thought is not subject to the
physical limitations of matter, thea veloci-
ties in excess of the speed of light would be
possible. It is interesting to me th:::t in
1968 I was sp-:aking to Sir Frank Whittle,
the inventor of the jet engine and an
eminent scientist, about interstellar space
travel. It was just before the Americans
had landed on the moon. Sir Frank
said that he thought that it would be
perfectly feasible one day to go to the
stars, as he did not believe in Einstein's
theory of relativity. A like this,
coming from an ordinary man like myself,
would probably, quite rightly, be laughed
at. But one can certainly not laugh when
a remark like that is made bv such an
eminent person as Sir Frank Vihittle.
What is interesting is that two years htcr,
in 1970, Dr. Fomin, a Russian doctor of
telekinesis ar:d automation, argued that, ·
to traverse interstellar space, \Ve would
have to grapple with physical laws differeut
from those we know at present and which
so far are oi1ly theory. However, these
principles have been established in mathe-
matical formulae. Therefore, Einsteiil's
concept of time and space possibly may
not apply.
In· 1976, President Carter, in a· pre-
election pledge stated:
'.'If I become President, I'W make every piece
of infom1ation this country has about UFO siting3
available to the oublic and the scientists. I am
convinced that UFOs exist. I have seen them".
This statement was a breakthrough against
the United States cover-up as it admitted
that not all UFO information is, or has
been, available to the American public.
For instancr.:, do your Lordships' know
that three former United States Presidents
before their election proclaimed their
belief in UFOs '? They were President
··...-;--••r ... . .-.. ..-r
'
, ..
Eisenhower, President Lyndon Johnson
and President Ford, who I agree
appointed. During their presidencies thev
completely silent and did not
their promises. . Why? I strongly sus-
pect that Her MaJesty's Government know
why, and if they do know, why then,
they should inform your Lordships.
I believe that there is much material
evidence on UFOs in the national archives
in the United States of America which
has never been made known to the public
and even President Carter is finding it
difficult to carry his pre-election pkdge.
I am led to believe that he has tried
unsuccessfully with NASA to do UFO
research. The answer he has beea given
is" No, due to ". That
which NASA has been required to do
wouid cost a few million dollars, but a
few millioa dollars is only tile cost of two
astronauts' suits. Therefore it
obvious that for some reason there is a
cover-up in the United States.
We in the United Kingdom are in a
strange position because we have had
thousands of sightings, yet I am led to
understand that the Ministry of Defence
h<cYe only two clerks working on UFO
sightings. Further, they ciaim that they
are not spending any money on UFO
research. They relucmnt to in-
vestigate p:1blidy coxmected phenomena
such as alleged messages from outer snacc.
They say that this Is the responsibility
of the BBC and the Post Office. Can the
Minister say whctllCr the BBC and the
Post Oft:Ce know that they have tllis
responsibility?
Further, when the noble Lord, Lord
Strabolgi, replies to the debate will he '
confirm that Her :Majesty's Government
might be sympathetic and give support I
to the efforts of President Carter, Dr. Kurt ·,
W aldheim and Sir Eric Gairy to get the
i United Nations to debate the resolution
•· to discover the origin, nature and of
UFOs".
The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, said
that we should set up a parliamentary
UFO group to a fe\v times a year.
I \Vould coGcur with him. Further. I
think the general public should be en-
couraged to come forward with evidence.
IVI:my do not, for fear of being ridiculed.
Let them be open; let be honest;
let them badger their Member of Parlia·
rnent and the Government to be open
l
1261
with the1
is a COH
nave a r
mcnts. r
through·
Bef0n
Lord St

has net'
from 23
1978, 11
elusive.
number!
these 1
noble L
18
daylight
people ,
if T.JFO:
gence m

heartily
the not
intra-go
Let
cxampk
the kad
7.55 p.rr
The·v
first l
Earl, L·
ext
is redly
enjoyed
enjoy it
the firs1
these Ul
great m
first p\r,
and the
little •.:h
anythin;
fact I t
from P.
the solr,
lamcnti1
aboutl'v
"The.
evap:>r:HI
thin :>1nr.
living bel
I think
1
fact
system ,
1
'
cow.c fr
The
parade-
sister
H.L.S
-
:;-,8terial
::-,rchives
c \'.'liich
: put.lic,
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p1,:-.[!o·e

a UFO
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is a
.re in a
ve had
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n UFO
1at they
n UFO
to in-
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!JSi"uiJity
Can the
:;.nd the
:;e this
:i, Lord
will he

support
)r. Kurt
get the
uti on
of
ty, said
'nentary
a year.
rther, I
be en-
vid'!nce.
diculed.
honest;
' Parlia-
:>e open
..
1261 Unidentified [ 18 JANUARY 1979 ] Flying Objects 1262
with them and to cease what I am convinced that is quite possible if you believe in the
is a cover-up here. The people of Brit:-tin now accepted-or shall we say more
have a rir..ht to know all that the Govern- popular--theory of the " big bang" for
mcnts, not only of tbis country but others the start of the universe. Undoubtedlv,
throughout the world, know about UFOs. our wn and its solar svstem must have
been shared \Vi!h n:any others at that
Before l sit down I ask the noble Lord, moment when we suddenly appeared.
Lord Strabolgi, whether he will tcil your They even give dates for it now; they
Lo::'dships why the Ministry of Defence talk about 5,000 miilion years ago, which
has not informed the public of 18 fits in with our own geological back-
from 23rd May 1977 up to 22nd February ground.
1978, numbered K 5634 to K 5651 in-
clusive. Further, what do the classification
numbers 5, 3, 20, 16, 6, 8 and 23 mean for
these ! 8 contacts? Moreover, docs the
noble Lord r.:alise that 13 out of these
18 contacts \vcre seen dur;ng the hours of
daylight? There ned be no fear that the
people of this country may panic, since
if UFOs are extra-terrestrial their intelli-
gence and knowledge is far ahead of our
primitive understanding. J·Jy Lords, I
hc.artily support the Motion moved by
the noble Earl, L)rd Clancarty, for an
intra-governmental body to research UFOs.
Let Her Majesty's Go\'e:·nment give an
example to the rest of the >vorld by being
the leader in this investigation.
7.55 p.m.
The Viscount ofOXFUIRD: My Lords,
first I should like to thank the noble
Earl, Lord Clancerty, for initiating this
interesting debate. Of course it
is really much above my head, but I have
enjoyed it already and I hope I
enjoy it for the of the evening. To me,
the first question really is, where
these UFOs come fro;n? There could be a
great many ans\:vers to that, but in the
first place we can look at our own planet
and there is no doubt tbat there is very
little chance of their having come from
anything in our own solar system. In
fact I think I should quote a few· >vords
from Professor Kopal's recent book on
the solar system which finishes up, after
lamenting the fact of what they found out
about Mars, by saying:
" The hope of finding life on Mars has
evaporated, together with the canals, into the
thin Martian air. It is new almost certain th<!t as
living beings we arc alone in the solar system".
I think that is a very good example of the
fact that we cannot look to the solar
system to discov:;r where these things
come from, if they come from anywhere.
The next possibility which has been
paraded is that they might come from the
sister Slm in our own galazy. Of course
H.L. 8 P2
There are many stars which have a
solar systei:1 which might well be in the
same position; they might have one planet.
as we have, as go<.'d as ours and with
same amount of knowledge. On the other
hand, we must accept the fact, as the noble
Earl, Lord Kimberley, was saying, that it
would j1ave to be something which we
have not been able to on this earth
and something that we do not understand
en this earth, because if one wanted to get,
say, from A Centauri, which is our nearest
star, to here, it wculd take half a lifetime.
Even travelling faster than anything we
have ever produced in the way of space
ships in this world of ours, the distance is
250,000 times the distance that '"e are
from our sun, which is 93 million miles.
It is a distance which would certainly take
half a lifetime, even at 100,000 miies an
hour. So I do not think it would be
reasonable to look at another solar system,
say A Centauri, which is very ncar, being
only roughly 4t light ytars from us, which
is not very much in space. There is of
course the possibility that the UFOs
may come from some secret effort on this
earth. This I very much doubt because
one could not keep a thing like that
secret for 20 or 30 years. I very much
doubt the possibility of its being on this
earth.
So we get an entirely different picture.
We have progressed in the last 30 years
both in cosmology and in many other
sciences, more than we have ever done
before, certainly in my lifetime. I think
the feeling really is that we are now on the
edge of something in the universe which
we do not understand yet; However. if
we are going to understand the UFO
question, we have got to _move to the
extent of understanding something beyond
cosmology today. From our point of
view, what we are looking at is the tip
of the iceberg. We know perfectly well
that we get information, we put it into.
computers and come out at the other
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1263 Unide11ti/ied [ LORDS ] Flying Objects 1264
[Viscount Oxfuird.]
end with a new model. Then in five or
10 years the model is thrown away and
we are back with the one answer which
applies, unfortunately, to so much of
science today; we just do not know.
But one hopes that it will be possible.
If the suggestion of the noble Earl,
Lord Clancarty, ba:ked by the noble
Earl, Lord Kimberley, is adopted-that is,
that we should have a worldwide organisa-
tion-to look into this matter and to go
further than we have ever done, why
should we not be the leaders of it? It
would twist science back into a new
field. Is it possible that there is not
merely another solar system in our galaxy,
but that somewhere in one of the many
galaxies in the expanding universe there
are other places where these things could
come from with their amazingly vast
scientific knowledge? I personally see
no valid reason why we must accept that
at this time, but we should start working
for it. If we had a worldwide organisa-
tion to try to control that, perhaps we
should be able to solve many of the
problems which face us today in the
universe; and nothing could be better:
1hen we might possibly find the answer
to our UFOs.
8.2 p.m.
Lord DAVIES of LEEK: My Lords,
as the lone fir.:ure on this side of the House
who has dared to come in on this deb3te,
may I say that it has been a pleasure to
listen to the noble Viscount, Lord Oxfuird,
who has just spoken and, \Vho has, in
his own inimitable way, as a result of
his military and other experience over
the years, brought a certain depth and
profundity to the request for some
investigation into the phenomenon with
which mankind is presented today.
Consequently, with all sincerity I can say
that I hope this House will have the
pleasure of listening to the noble Viscount
on many occasions adding his voice to
our deliberations, and I thank him for
what he has said.
Now I want to attack the problem in
my own way. First, I want to ask what
are we talking about. Secondly, after
expressing my gratitude for the maiden
Speech, I would also express thanks to
th;! noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, who
initiated this debate to call attention to
the increasing number of sightings and
landings on a worldwide scale of un-
identified flying objects. There is no
argument about that. Do not let the
noble Earl be a little bit sad because of
dandy intellectualism that may approach
this debate. The world oozes with
intellectuality and at the present moment
it is completely lacking in wisdom. Let
us remember what I have said many times
here, and it was my old mother who
taught me this; she made me go to Sunday
school and quote the text. She would say
in Welsh: "Always remember, my boy
Solomon did not ask for cleverness,
asked for wisdora ". There is a vast
difference between the dandy intel-
lectualism of some of the reporters on
newspapers' approach to this problem
and the wise approach that we have just
heard in this maiden speech. Let us
anchor that down. What else does the
noble Earl ask for. He says on a world-
wide scale and that there is need for inter-
governmental study. I will add to it
from the other side of the House that the
expense would be so small that we should
not neglect this.
Anybody who knows something about
laser beams-and I saw in a laboratory
in Switzerland for the first time the effect
of a laser beam-knows it would be quite
possible to throw on to that table now
an identified or unidentified that
\Vould look palpable, like Macbeth's
dagger. Your Lordships remember the
famous dagger scene:
" Is this a dagger I see before me
The handle toward my hand? ...
In form as palpable
As this which now I draw".
We could with a laser beam throw a
dagger that would look as palpable on
to that table. There may be an under-
standing of the power of the laser and its
effect existing in some kind of technology
that is beyond the dimension in which we
can work. We have been looking in
mathematics for the fifth and even the
sixth dimension.
I had better pick up my notes, lest we
be here a long time. Noble Lords need
not worry; so much has been quoted that
it saves me a lot of quotation. I want to
ask the 64,000 dollar question. Do noble
Lords believe in angels'! The answer
from some will be, Yes, and yet they have
never seen one. We are asking you to
believe in the phenomena of flying
saucers, seen by now by, I should think,
1265
proba
of th
wear
better
the sai
tains a.
and
springi
religiot
I said I
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It is a
a phil<
asked,
way in
dealinf
Shakes
"Ther'
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So tl
Mark
outside
8ft. 6
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park
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have l
somep
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to then
Essay.
It is sli
says th
tether.
Thcr
of the
\Vas ¥t
kind a
He is
from (
arroga1
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world
nothin,
anothe
way th
ness
since
greates
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went o
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what t!
- The
expert
In fuc
write''
1264'
un.
• no
the .. ,.
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each
with
mcnt
Let
jmcs
·,,·ho
nday
:1 say
boy,
s, he
vast
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blem
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't us
s the
orld-
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tt the
lOUld
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quite
now
that
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r the
ow a
le on
nder-
:Jd its
ology
::h we
1g in
n the
:st we
need
::1 that
1nt to
noble
nswer
'have
ou to
flying
think/'
1265 Unidentified [ 18JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1266
probably millions, at any rate hundreds I have been translated into many languages
of thouse.nds, without exaggeration. If and I congratulate him. He has done a
we are studying hagiography-and I had job of work and I hope that the debate
better be careful-which is the history of initiated by the noble Earl will receive
the saints, if I came off my Welsh moun- some attention. People tend to scoff,
tains and came down as a little bov of 12 but it is only a few days ago that we were
and said J had seen the Virgin· Mary sitting at the piano, playing and knocking
springing out of a rock, some devout out-not with the brilliance of a top
religious people would believe me; but if pianist-" We three kings of Orient arc".
I said I had seen a flying saucer they would What did they follow? They followed a
not believe me. What is the difference? star. What was that star? We have had
Jt is a question that has to be asked; it is an intellectual anc:.Jysis of why after the
a philosophical question that ]1as to be Crucifixion darkness spread over the
asked, when intellectuality, in its pompous earth. The noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne-
way in its Sunday newspaper articles, is who has piloted from one side ofti1e ocean
dealing in print with mysteries that tothcothcr--made intellectual assumptions
Shakespeare described-to misquote him: c:.bout earthquakes and eclipses. \Ve are
" There is more in heaven and earth than not completely sure how to explain
is thought of in man's philosophy". eclipses or earthquakes, but \VC have a
kind of Kepler mathematics that times
things rather nicely. It is not quite
enough to explain the earthquakes. It
does not mean that the mystery of the
UFOs is something that can be brushed
aside, and it is an anthropological arro-
gance to so say.
So this deserves not being pushed aside.
Mark you, my Lords, I was told today
outside those doors that an ambassador of
8 ft. 6 ins. with green feet and webbed
feet as well had asked whether he could
park his flying saucer in our car park,
according to some of the telephones that
have been ringing here today, because
some people have treated the whole matter
as a joke. I would, therefore, suggest
to them that they read H. G. Wells' Final
Efsay. They can read it in half an hour.
It is slim, it is cogent, it is succinct. He
says the human mind is at the end of its
tether.
There is a queerness in the cosmclogy
of the world in which we are now living.
Was Wells right? We certainly see mai1-
kind acting queer when petrol is short.
He is snarling and worse than any being
from outer space. The anthropological
arrogance of 20th century man in his
tinpot motor-cars riding through the
streets of the lovely spaceship we call the
world is hartbreaking. He has learnt
nothing from his two wars; and if we had
another, God help mankind, in view of the
way that he has shown his greed, selfish-
ness and tendency to panic as never before
since the days of the Crusades. The
greatest delusion in the history of man was
the delusion of the Crusades·. But men
went on them after the days of Peter the
Hermit with a fiery and fierce belief in
what they were doing.
The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, is an
expert who has been written about.
In fact, he dropped everything else to
write about this matter. His seven books 1
Good heavens, I have been speaking for
nine minutes! My Lords, do not \Vorry,
I shall be about another five. The House
has heard a number of laudable· people
quoted. Ordinary little people h::tve
sometimes been laughed nt, especially
those concerned in the famous sighting
at Pascagoula in Mississippi when one
little fellow fainted when he saw a chap
with one leg jumping towards him with a
wizened and wrinkled face, with pointed
eats, crab claws for hands, slits for eyes
and holes beneath his nostril3--they would
not be nostrils wilhout holes, at least l
should hope so! We shall not develop
fantastic descriptions like that. 'Ne shall
not go into those realms. But we must
say that there are many people who have
said that they have experienced these
phenomena.
I agree that the New Zealand incident
has reawakened man's interest and as
the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, said,
they were not clear pictures. However,
I attended a scientific lecture in this noble
building not so long ago, giYen by some-
one who believed faithfully in the Loch
Ness monster. He showed us masses of
films. He was a scientist and he swore
that the Loch Ness monster existed.
There is just as much case for the existence
of flying saucers. We know that they
exist. All we are saying is that they are
!
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1267 · ' ·. ·unidentified
· [Lord Davies of Leek.]
[LORDS] Flying Objects 1268
unidentified. They may be terrestrial or
celestial. We are asking Governments to
find an answer and that is all that this
debate is about. There is no magic, we
have nothing up our sleeves, but let the
world know what is going on.
This renewed interest poses many
problems and there are many research
organisations which are looking into the I
matter and which know that they exist,
I shall not bore the House by going
mto them now. Let us ask a couple of
questions. How can a flying saucer fly
faster than sound and not create a super-
sonic boom? What is it? Secondly
we the_ right to that we
1
a:e m the umverse? Thts anthropomorphic
vtew of God that some people have built
up does not build for the spirit and does
not, I think, build for true holiness. It
does not build up for real Christian spirit
if it is followed too fully. Therefore, I
should say that we have no right to
assume that we are the only intelligent
beings in the universe. Is the earth the
only planet populated by intelligent
technological life? I do not know and
I do not suppose that we shall be able to
find an answer yet. If in a year of Queen
Elizabeth I had said to someone in
London that I could show him a Dicture
of Philip of Spain in Madrid on a oiece
of glass in his room, I \Vould probably
have been burnt at the stake as a wizard
or as a witch ifl were a woman. However:
we can do that today. We have broken
through. We have the miracle on earth
of teievision, even from the moon.
Are there flying saucers? Can these
objects be explained? There are two
basic facts. First, the scientific examina-
tion of the probability. That is due to
mankind and Governments should look
into it. The second aspect is to fathom
the possibilities of the existence of this
phenomena. Astronomers are now in-
creasing their search for extra-territorial
radio signals, but so far-despite what the
noble Earl, Lord Kimberley, has said-
none has really or truly been discovered.
The billions of stars in the galaxy make
the problem at present too much for us.
Then there is the question of speed.
In a light year a ray of light
6 trillion miles, but we do want to
go into that. The questioa of relativity
.. f- -
is interesting. I am not qualified to
argue about it: I never reached that
standard of mathematics. However I
know that Einstein believed that
magnetic waves have no mass and are
therefore not by his theory.
he said that as an object-if
1! has . mass-approaches the speed of
hght, Its mass becomes infinite. That
might explain the black holes about which
we talk. We are talking of mysteries
that we never knew anything about.
For a couple of generations now
thousands of magazines and so on have
reported these sightings. We want to
know whether these objects that are
unidentified deserve rea'! research in
depth. . W?ether or n_ot it is true, only
our preJndices can dec1de, and it becomes
more difficult to listen to such weird
experiences from app:uently honest, sane
and unself-seeking men who place their
findings before papers and Governments.
Are we right to call these men liars
hallucinrttors or sensationalists? If
human being out cf the tens of thousands
who allege to have seen these phenomena
is telling the truth, then thet:C is a dire
need for us to look into the matt'!r.
Those. 'Yho in psychic phenomena
or spmtuahsm and those who believe
in the sy?chronidty of ghosts-as they try
to explam them-should not scofr at the
possibility of these unidentified objects.
We know that poltergeists exist; we know
about tfJeir activities. Therefore, do not
be so ready to scoff at UFOs ·when, in
mon:ent if I catch you talking, you
a¥ree With. m.e that poltergeists exist.
Thts 1s a senous Debate. It deserves
study and understanding.
8.30 p.m.
The Lord Bishop of NORWICH: My
Lords, count it a privilege to follow the
noble VIscount, Lord Oxfuird. and to link
myself with the words of the ·noble Lord
Lo,rd of in c?ngratubting
1
noole V:sc(;lUt:.t on mmden speech. At
the begmnmg of h1s speech I jotted down
that I shvuld like to thank him for his
" down-to-earth rem:1rks ", but when he
got right out to A Centauri I realised that
that was of no usc anyway. How-
ever, we coEgratulate him and look for-
ward to his voice again and often.
I am gl::d to be able to follow-with:>ut
of course the Welsh fire or fervour-what
I
1
'
l
1269
the noble L:
I have a litl
that is wh•
says. I arr
noble E.:trl,
"To call a1
sightings a11d
un.idcntificd i
is a proper
have brou2:
open &nd l
opportunit:
It is righ1
scientiJk j,
objects, n
curicsity, 1
noble E<1rl
because of
reasons of
a time wh
not always
out the fro
we aretod;
a search w
should be
am not SUI
to what ti
says to l'.S
studied, a
to be true.
The int
sn !!2estcd
world
in cth:r
s:
to ha,'e
Norfoi:C;
which is a
fair and <
has toid u
I was tal:
tcday in:
was to rir
one of Ol
national
actudest;
spaces sh
whether 1
this), wh
Norfolk I
importan
say abou
I thin b
fi{m :c:nd

weaiih
erudite
House, '
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That
··"·'i-Jich
now
1 ha.ve
1nt to
11. arc
ch in
·, 0:1\y
:·comes
weird
sane
e their
1ments.
1 liars,
If one
msands
:10mena
. a dire
maW!r.
nomena
believe
they try
I at the
objects.
ve know
, do not
in
:mg, you
sts exist.
de5erves
CH: 1vfy
0llow the
1d to link
ble Lord,
lating the
At
ted down
n for his
when he
Jised that
v. How-
-look for-
ai1d often.
·-without
)l!f-what
' .

1269 Ur.fdentified • [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Hying Objects 1270
the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek said. among the varicnis parts of this chequered
I have a little Irish blood in mv veins and chessboard? I felt that I wanted to share
that is why ·I understm:d everything he anxieties on a rather narrow level with your
says. I am sure that the req_:.t;;st by the Lordships. First, I believe that UFOs
noble Earl, Lord Clancarty: and the them today
"To call attentioll t:J the number of arc he!pmg to buud up a climate of
sighting.;; and landing" oa a world-wide scale of credulity and, in certain cases, even of
unidNt irlcd flying c.•bjccts" superstition, with. the danger of a sort of
is a proper one. I am most that we spirituali_ty almost reacting r.gainst
have brought t:1is whclc issue into the tmperson<'.hty of modern civilisation,
open and haYe been giveD ur!hurried but not wholly involved in the total
opportunity of talking r.bout it tonight. Christian commitment, which is a balanced
It is right th<lt we should give a cool and commitment. Last summer at our
scientific look at ail flying Lambeth Co<lference the phrase was used:
objects, not only because of natural "The Church gathers for worshiry; the Church
. . for mission". ·
cunos:tv. not eYen onlv-as I think the
noble Earl, Lord Kimberley, suggested·- These are the two sides of activity: the
because of nation<:l security b:
1
t also for Church of God meets to worship God
reasons of scientific research. There was but the Church of Christ scatters to spread
a time when leaders in the Church were the good news of the Gospel. My concern
not always so • nushin(T here is that the mystery surrounding
out the frontiers of knowledc:c as f UFOs I think it is helped·
we are today. I verv much hor:-e that such by the vanety of films and proaramm.es
a search will contimie. Whether or not it on the subject-is in danger of
should be an intra-govcrnmer;tal study I a 20th century superstition in our modern
am not sure. We shall listen with interest and scientific days which is not unlike
to what the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, the superstition of past years. That is
says to us on that. But thu.t it should be my first anxiety .
studied, and seriouslv studied. I believe The second is that UFOs and thet'r
to be true. · ·
study seem, from my limited research in
The interestinP: thinn is that when a
suggested UFO is seen in one part of the
world it seems to spark off many sightings
in other parts. The fact of the New
Ze<>land sid:tiiHIS a short time a!!o seems
to ha\'e produced r;-,a'.W sigl-itings in
Norfolk; and our Eastern Dailv Press--
which is a magnificent daily paper,accurate
fair and ahvays helpful to the Church-.:..
has told us all about t!1is reccntlv. When
I was talking on television at lunchtime
today in Norwich my immediate reaction
was to ring up tho:: commanding officer of
one of our stations--:md for the sake of
national security I shall not name the
actual establishment lest other cars in other
spaces should be listening to me-to ask
whether (and I am quite serious about
this), when sighings were suggested in
Norfolk last week, one of our particularly
important RAF stations had anything: to
say about them.
this area, to link with a certain religious
subculture which seems to do three
things. It oifers a substitute for true
· catholic religion. I use " catholic " with
a small ' c ' ; I mean the Christian faith in
its widest, bui received, sense. Secondly,
I think it draws serimis, sincere and oft:;n
very channing people-&nd young people
too-into a sub-Christ!an, and I am
afraid sometimes a non-Christian cult,
often controlled by a dominant leader,
and reproduces something of the gnostic
-I suppose one wants to help people by
saying " g-nostic "-heresies of the tight-
knit, esoteric groups of the first, second
and third centuries. In fact, I believe
that Archbishop William Temple was
right when he said the Church of Christ
was the only society founded for its non-
members to take what it knew of God
and of Christ into the world that others
I think that we should be quite cool;
firm and scientific nr.d trv to extend our
knowledge in this area. · But, with the
wealth of scientific, ueronautical and
erudite knowledge in your Lordships'
House, what is a bishop doing moving
might know too.
I see a certain ·danger of the linking
of religion with the UFO situation at that
level. Some Christian researchers sul!gest
that those who become deeply involved
in the religious aspects of the UFO
situation come under a psychic domination
>'
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1271 Unideliti/ied [LORDS ] Fl7!11g Objects 1272
(The Lord Bishop of Norwich.]
which can cause serious distress to them
and to their personal life. That is my
anxiety. I may be wrong, but I put it
forward with some care, having thought
about it and studied it a good deal.
Therefore, my third anxiety-and I am
sorry to be negative but it is important to
share both the light and the dark sides
-is the danger of the religious aspect of
the UFO situation leading to the obscuring
of basic Christian truths. When all is
said and done, Christ himself is the agent
of God in the creation of the world. I
quote from Colossians:
"Christ is the image of the invisible God, the
first-born of all creation: for in all things
were created in heaven and on earth, visible and
invisible-whether thrones or dominions, or
principalities or authorities . . . All thi!!gs were
created through Him and for Him ".
This fascinating chapter in Colossians,
which is perhaps one of the highest levels
of Christological teaching, speaks of
Christ being before all things: " by him
all things consist", as the Authorised
Version put it. All things hold together;
He is the great unifying, holding-together
principle of God's universe.
The Lord BISHOP of NORWICH:
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord
Tregfarne, for his interjection because it
shows that he must have been listening
carefully, because the next thing on my
notes is, " Say something about Lord
Trefgarne's remarks ". However, there
are about 20 seconds to go before I get
to the noble Lord. Perhaps in the mean-
time he can have a glass of water from
Lord Davies of Leek, or something, but I
am almost with the noble Lord. I am glad
for that interjection because I obviously
was not getting right what I was trying to
say. I believe that all the far corners of
the creative world, right out further than
we can ever see or even know by radio, are
within the plan of the Creator. I believe
they are within the majestic purposes of
God. I believe that Christ, as Creator
under the Godhead, is concerned with it
all.
Now may I come to the noble Lord's
particular question a few mintues ago.
His question went something like this:
" Do we believe in the existence of another
race? Is it possible that there is another
race further aJTeld? " I must say that I do
not know. I believe there is a place for
reverent Christian agnosticism concerning
what is not revealed to us in scripture and
by our Lord. Having said that, I believe
that God may have other plans for other
worlds, but I believe that God's plan for
' this world is Jesus. That at least is how I
viev.' the question. The emphasis in
scripture is most interesting on the fact
that there never seems a point beyond
the revelation of scripture where there is
not God.
I say this in this debate recognising the
danger of, as it were, preaching a sermon.
However, I do not th!nk that is true in this
case because the very subject we are
debating is helping to widen our horizons
-and the noble Viscount, Lord Oxfuird,
stressed this paint of looking far out in
his maiden speech. I believe that Christ
has not only a tcrrcstial, not only a cosmic
significance but literally a galactic signi-
ficance. I believe that He is God's vice-
regent concerning His great creative
world. It is good that our minds and I quote, if I may follow Lord Trefgarne
eyes should be stretched further out once more before finishing what I had to
because I do not believe that at any point say from the most majectic opening letter
of the universe we get beyond the hand ! to the Hebrews.
of God. it helps us to "In these last days, God has spoken to us by
stand the majesty of the Godhead when his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all
we begin to stretch our minds to reach out things, by whom also he made the worlds. He
to far corners of creation l reflects the glory of God. He bears the stamp of
. • 1 his nature, upholding the universe by his word
of power".
Lord TREFGARNE: My Lords, will My point is that the danger of getting the
the right reverend Prelate allow me to UFO thing lin ked with the religious thing
intervene? Is he actually offering eccle- is that it obscures the fact that Christ is the
siastical authority for the existence of image of the invisible God, and that all
another race of people in another uni- God's purposes and plans for humanity
verse? Is he saying that the existence of are in and through his Son, our Lord.
UFOs, together with their inhabitants
such as arc so often described to us, is
compatible with Christian faith?
This is not popular. This is not agreed
by dozens of people. Plenty of people
1273
think that
exclusive
of our Lor
"All po•.\
Earth··.
But this is
which he
and in the
In the inc:
clearly re·
Godhead,
study oft
because I 1
and his <
salvation<
by other
which rna
and may:
ways. F
happy tha
careful stl
but let itn
of the ful
its power:
Vi:>COUl
before ti
down. m:.!
I agreed
not
was tellin
UFOs in
meant th
art or otl
bad and
text. If
worship
in a!!recr
We 'i:nusl
or mus!c
study tlH
not cleat
not.
The
Mv Lon
mission
sentence'
the boys
should 1
great we
it is CSSCl
Christiai
should l
the grea
arn
people
bypas'> 1
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• .. • <- .... J.L .. 1.,: .. .. ._ ......
1273 Unidemified [IS JANUARY 1979] Fl)'ing Objects 1274
think that Christians make a proud and get into difficulties which will hurt and
exclusive claim when they c:aim the words harm them. It is simply the obscuring
of our Lord, of the Gospel that is my concern.
"All power is given unto me in Heaven and in
Earth".
But this is part of the belief of a Christian
which he J1as to put humbly and loYingly,
and in the light of seeking to serve people.
In the incarnation of our Blessed Lord he
clearly revealed to us the mind of the
Godhead, and we should be -::areful in our
study of the UFOs in a religious context
because I believe that the Gospel of Christ,
and his death upon the Cross for the
salvation of sinners, can never be by-passed
by other forms of religious expression
which may be esoteric, may be unusual,
and may appear to come to us in unusual
ways. For that reason therefore I am
happy that we should make a cool, clear,
careful study of the whole UFO situation,
but let it not be at the price of the obscuring
of the fullness of the Christian faith and
its power to transform lives.
Viscount BARRINGTON: My Lords,
before the right reverend Prelate sits
down, may I a;k one question? Although
I agreed with much of what he said, I
did not entirely understai!d, when he
was telling us that one should not study
UFOs in a religious context, whether that
meant that one should not study music,
art or other things that we aU have, good,
bad and indifferent, in a religious con-
text. If it means that we must not
worship them, then I would be entirely
in agreement, as a professing Christian.
We must not worship art, architecture,
or music. But when he tells us not to
study them in a religious context, I am
not clear whether I will he doing so or
not.
8.36 p.m.
Lord GLADWYN: My Lo;·ds, I must
begin with an apology. Before I knew
that the debate was to stan so late I
entered into an obligation for this evening
from \vhich I find it difllcult to escape .
Therefore, I may be unrrble to stay the
course. One happy thing about UFOs is
that they have nothing whatever to do
with Party politics! Another is that they
take one's mind off the absolutely frightful
everyday events. Besides that, no theory
as regards them can possibly be laughed
out of court, nor need angels in respect
of them fear to tread! I am sure that
the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek,
would agree.
Though many alleged sightings are of
identifiable objects of terrestrial origin,
such as disintegrating satellites, balloons
or meteors, or even some sort of reflection,
others are of things which, on the face of
it, cannot be accounted for in this way.
The evidence of this is obviously too
circumstantial to be disregarded. The
evidence produced by the noble Earl,
Lord Clancarty, and my noble friend
Lord Kimberley, is obviously too circum-
stantial. You cannot disregard that.
These things almost certainl:7 do exist.
It is difficult to say that they do not
exist. Therefore, unlike the noble Lord,
Lord Trefgarne, I do not contest their
existence.
Some objects may be of terrestrial
origin, but equally some may not. What-
ever their origin, it has certainly not as
yet been proved that they contain, or·are
controlled by, sentient beings of any sort.
Still Jess has it been demonstrated that
The Lord Bishop of NORWICH: such sentient beings come from another
My Lords, will the House give me per- planet, of which we are told there are
mission to seek to answer that in a
many millions in the universe and no
sentence? Just as it is important that doubt many thousands on which con-
the boys and girls in our schools today ditions may well be similar to those on
should know some basic facts about the earth. It is conceivable, therefore, that
great world religions, I still believe that UFOs come from another world; but that,
it is essential that in a so-called and named
to say the least, is not certain or, let us
Christian country our boys and girls · · h
h ld 1 h · f k · say, IS not yet certam. Let us t erefore
sh ou lave t e
0
n.owmg for a moment examine the terrestrial
t e g:eat facts of I I an.d the non-terrestrial hypotheses.
am s1mply suggestmg that. If, m fact,
people seeking for religious experience I If these objects are terrestrial, they
bypass the revelation of Godlin Christ come somewhere from our world, then
and revealed in scripture, then they may they may conceivably be attributable to
. • .,... ............ --V""',"'''"·- .. • • . .. ,.

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'.
1275 Unidentified [ LORDS ] Flying Objects 1276
[Lord GJadwyn.]
some condition of the atmosphere, or
upper unknown to us, pro-
or similar phenomena
which no doubt interfere with compr.sses,
and for some reason dart about the sky,
sometimes even coming to earth. The
difficulty about such an explanation is
that they never seem to come into actual
contact with aircraft, or any other air-
borne objects. Even if collisions have
sometimes been suspected, they have not
been proved to have occurn:-d. Nor,
apparently, do they ever crash into
anything important on the ground. When
they are alleged to have been seen on the
ground it is always, incident.11ly, away
from houses. I sup;_')ose it is conceivable
that they may be ca:)able of passing right
through physical objects, their mindless
trajectory being tile;·efore harmless, and
dict<,tcd by some unknown physical cause,
and their app8.rcnt presence en the ground
being due to some local conditions on the
surface. All I say is that this is a con-
ceivable hypothe5is. In any case, the
fact that their occasional presence is so far
inexplicable does not in itself invalidate
the terrestrial hypothesis. There a:·e, as
the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek,
said, more things in Heaven than are
dreamt of in our philosophy.
One terrestrial possibility at kast can
be discarded, that which a'tributes them
to some Soviet activity in Asia,
in some way hcaralding World 'Nar nr.
This hypothesi'> was cmrent, as I remember
well, in America at the time of the Korean
war, \vhen I was in New "/ork. Jndeed,
it was responsible for, as far as I know,
the only known joke ever perpetrated by
a Soviel: functionary, namely Mr.
Gromyko, who when. asked ·.vhat he
thought about flying saucer5 said, " Some
people say these objects are due to the
excessive consumption in the United
States of Scotch whisky. I say that is
not so. They are due to activi:ies of
a Soviet athlete, a discus thrower, in
Eastern Siberia, practising for the Olympic
Games and quite unconscious of his
strength."
If these objects are not t;:;rrestrial,
then admittedly, always supposing they
exist and arc not mere illusions, they
must be of som.! non-terre:.trial origin.
We can, I think, discard the pos£ibility
that they come from uny of the other
planets, as was said by the noble Viscount,
(
Lord Oxfuird, whose maiden speech we
so much appreciated; I hope we slu>JJ
hear from him again shortly. Venus is
too hot, is a lifeless wilderness,
an.d conditions on the others are extremeiy
unlikely to be compatible wirh any form
of life.
Thus, from \vhence do t11ey come?
They can cnly come from a planet in
some other starry system, of which the
nearest, as the noble Viscount said, is
the siar Proxima Centauri, which is 4-1:
light years away. Always supposing:
therefore, that UFOs are manned by
sentient beings who travel at the Sf)eed
of light-and if you travel at 186,000
miles a secoDd, how do you slow down
on approaching the earth? (how wonderful
to imagine !)-these cr-eatures must have
been cooped up in their small machines
for no less than 4·5 terrestrial years before
::ppearing in cur atmosphae. One can
perhaps i::12gine thai they may somehow
have been able to escape from time and
consequently not need any sustenance or
sleep, but it is difficult, even on that
hypothesis, to believe their machines are
sor:.1ehow time-exempt and can conse-
quently contain enough propellant to
keep them steady on their millennary way.
If a UFO was launched near Proxima
Centauri and proceeded at the rate at
which astronauts go to the moon, it
would take, I am reliably informed, not
100,000 years bat more 1ii:e 900,000 years
before it the earth. In which
case, it is indisputable that any non-terres-
trial UFO now si1zhtcd over New Zcalaud
or anywhere must have started on
its journey sc:-!1Cthing lik0 a million
years ago. In other w0rds, since after all
the huma11 race lives within time, it must
have left long before any kind of re-
cognisable hcman society existed here
below.
It is, however, also indisputable that
UFOs have been observed for many
hundreds of years in Europe, China and
elsewhere. There are records of mediaeval
monks seeing cigar-like objects in the
heavens; and indeed it is quite possible
that such sightings have been observed
during the last few thousand years.
There may be more now simply
because we have better facilities for
observing them. Jf so, what conclusion
m'.:st we draw as regards the whole non-
terrestrial hypothesis? It is simply that
'
1
1271 v
!
these
telligeni bein
if such they
minable jourr.
hover about 1
attempt a
of which we 1
evidence.
What couk
strange procee
obviously intr;
picked up cnm
that a serious
not feasible, t
idea. Perh::ps
mysterious wa
cur Jangur.r;c
I think it w;
Kimberley wb
were under so
from a p!anet
Proxima Cent;
simply a qucsti
it cop:,es dow
cosmic joke be
beings from 4
unfortunate in·
are a sort of
induce us by t!
them. It is a
net think it is<
There i
that l:ln1
taken place ir

then app< re11i
behnd some l
sum ably to see
that is, the ne\'
brougH dov.n
and Peru t1:en
markings on t
been utilized t
together with t
father of rhe r;:
who came du
such tradition
the world, drl
proof that sl!<:
descended fro1
The ne2rest
-I cuctc t:1:s
lengths to wi:i1
--is the tLeor)
Russia, tht C
star cf Bet;,
\vhich, to
·' the
'!
in
.... ;l
':lid, i,;
·j is

bv

1
:
!lClcrf u i
-::t
Jchincs
, before·
'!:.:': can
mchow
ne and
-!nee or
n that
ncs arc

ant to
ry way.
roxima
:-ate at
•On, it
:J, not
J wars
\\.hich
-terres-
ealand
_cd on
"Dillion
i'ter all
t must
of re-
1 here
e that
many
•a and
liaeva!
n the
)SSibJe
served
years.
;imply
s for
lusion
; non-
; that
'·-:.,..,_,..,,. • ..,_ .•-.·
1277 Unidentified [ 18 JANUARY 1979] · Flying Objects 1278
these sentient and obviously highly in- the babe in the mnnger, to the great benefit
telligcnt beings from another planet, cf all mankind, and then departed whence
if such they be, at the end of an inter- tl:ey came. You cc:n believe such hcrcticd
minable journey, are content simply to imaginings if you '''ill, nnd J:erraps if y0u
hover about our atmosphere and not belieYe in the divine origin of Chi i:.t and Lis
atternpt a landing, or at least a landing teachinrrs it would not matter vt-rv 1ruch
of whi.ch we have any uncontrovertible if you held that, in my vie'.v, rc:.ther nP!l·
evidence. sens!c8l b::lief. And yen c::n certninly
What could be the point of such
strange proceedings? . These senti::nt and
cbviouslv intclli[ent beings !l":l'St !::-,ve
picked up enough bfor:;;:•t0.n to conclude
that 3 serious landin2 \':as feasible or, if
not feasible, then to' ab::ndon tl:e \\hole
idea. Perh<:ps the:y n:c;y even in scree
mysterious way have ccen able to nnstcr
our langu:::ge and penetrate our t1JC;vghts.
I think it was my noble friend Lord
Kimberley s?.id tblt conceivntly they
were under some sort of thought control
from -a planet in tht> of
Proxima Centauri. Jf tiwt is w rnd it is
simply a question of thought control, then
it comes down apparently to a sort of
cosmic joke being pla)'td by thtse sentient
beings from 4! Jig!"t yeas away on the
unfortunate inha bitanis of this giobe; they
are a sort of hallm:imticJl' in tk1t they
ind·uce us by thcught control to l::clie-·;e in
ther.1. It is a conceiYable but I do
not think it is a tenable one.
There are, it is true, these who believe
that major landings fr.)m Ol'ter space h:we
taken place in the p<ist resulting in the
inauguration of a nc\1 ere:, beings who
tJ1en app:crentiy witl:drcw after Je::,ving
behind some kind of representative, r)re-
suma bly to see how it •,vould all work out;
that is. the new ciYili$ation \Vhich thev hr.d
brougi:t down to this wcrld. In Colombia
and Peru there are, I liliderstand, strange
markings on the thought to hE:ve
been utilized by some scrt of space ships,
together with tn:ditions of en other-wordly
father of the race, notably of the Inca race,
who came dcwn from the sky. In fact,
such traditions Ere f<>irly widespread in
the world, although d course there is no
proof that such father figures ever really
descended from the sky.
The nearest one in ti:ne to our own era
-I 0,ucte this only to dmw Gttention to the
lengths to which this kind of hlicf can go
-is the theory, quite popular l belieYe in
Russia, that Christ wcs a ccsmon?ut, the
star of Bethlehem bcirw a larl!e lJFO from
which, to the amuzencent of the shepherds,
cm:trged '' the Heavenly Host " who left
believe, if you W3i1t, that UFOs conL:in
people from aDother world which is
watching m. c:nd whcsc intentions r:rc
benevolent :md perkps designed to s:1ve
o'Jr distr£,ct;;d phnet frc.m horrors of
:mother w;:r by sm:1cLcw of the
wicted and tr'.llS ima:gur:HiJ'g: a new era.
Believe that if ycu lih.
J am hmve-•cr, that rJI Sl;ch
imaginings :::re due chiefiy to the dis-
content with the present human condition
and to r.n tmconscic•us de-sire to
from the horrors or rott>ntiai horrors of
our esrthly life. Vihe:1 we bclic\'ed that
if we were -::ood we would, when we died,
go to Hc8v"en, there was no inclination to
go to some new world ne2r Andmmeda;
and wheiher another wv:ld other than
Heaven itself \Vas v:<:tching us did not
worry us overmuch. Prt:sumr.bly, it W<'.S
the angels.
The more over-populated our planet
becomes, the greater the violence and the
more appalling the '.vars, the n-:.ore,
unconsciously perhaps, we want to
it if we can or trust in other worldly inter-
vention; and the more intense thcn.:fore
longing, the greater the tcmpt2.tion
to believe that there actually is somewhere
else to which we can physically go or to
which we C3l1 somehow make appeal.
It was a great disappointrr:ent ''hen the
moon was discovered to be a mass of
grey plasticine, that Iv1ars was even rnorc
unpleasant than the middle of the Sahara
and that Venus was the nearest thing
to Hell.
What is the moral? I agree with the
right reverend Prelate, who said so
eloquently-we arc indebted to him for
his perhaps the moral
is that we had better not put our trust
in saucers for salYation but, rather, con-
centrate on how best to conduct our-
selves here below so as to live in charity
with our neighbours and eventually die
in peace. If the UFOs contain sentient
beings, we can only leave it to such being
to get in touch with us when, and if, they
will. Up to now, if they exist, they have
.. • . .. • • , .... • '1'' .. .• ....,,.-·
V'
._,:::..
·'
i'
[,
!'
'{
1279 Unidentified [LORDS] Flying Obj,•cts 1280
[Lord Gladwyn.}
done no harm of any kind. Apparently
they have done no harm for the last two
or three thousand years. So there seems
to be no great need to set up intra-
governmental machinery to investigate
the whole phenomena. The mystery may
suitably remain a mystery, and so far as
I can see nobody wiU be in any way the
worse off if it does.
8.50 p.m.
Lord KlNGS NORTON: My Lords,
I should like to add my thanks to those
which the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty,
has already received for opening the debate
in such an extremely interesting way. I
found my imagination boggling a little
at some of the things he told us. Never-
theless, I feel that it is of immense value
that this matter has been brought out into
the open by the in the House, and
I hope that as a result of it there will be
some progress in the understanding of what
is an extremely serious matter. I feel
that we must be careful about our
terminclogy in discussing the UFO prob-
lem, and·I be
1
ieve that I shall make clear
in the course of my remarks what I mean
by that. For ex?.lllple, in the past few
days, since it was known to my friends
that I was to take part in the debate, I
have had over and over again the question:
Do you believe i!1 UFOs '! I must say
that I think that is rather a silly question,
because if I saw something i!l the sky
which neither I, nor whoever happened
to be with me, could identify-! have not,
but let us suppose that I did-then 1
should kve seen an unidentified flying
object, a UFO. I do no1 have to believe
in it. I should believe merely that I had
seen it---something that I could not
explain; and I believe that many people
are in that position.
It has been said more than once this
evenir:g that this is no new phenomenon.
I think that the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty,
dated it back to about 1300 BC. Whether
my researches have taken me further back,
I am not quite sure. However, I am sure
that your Lordships will be as familiar
as 1 am with the lOth Chapter of the
Book of the Prophet Ezekiel. He certainly
saw something very unfamilar in the
firmament, and it certainly could be call;!d
a UFO. It was very diiferent from the
modern ones. Jt to have been 1
coal-fired, to have been stabilised by ·
gyroscopes, and crewcd by cherubim; and
it was a model which has not, so far as I
know, been developed. There have been
a good many sightings probably before
Ezekiel, and certainly there have
many thousands since, and I fear that there
has grown up a belief in many minds that
if an object in the skies is unidentifiable.
it must be from outer space; and this is
quite unwarranted.
I think that it is worthwhile once again
to consider the possibilities. I know that
this has been done once or twice this
evening, but it is part of my argument. l
should say that there are possibly two
kinds of objects to be seen in the skies:
those of terrestrial origin, and those of
extra-terrestrial origin. Typical of tho
first are man-made flying machines,
satellites and rockets, and the like.
Identifiable objects of the second kind are
meteorites and phenomena such as the
Northern Lights.
I am sure that many--and perhaps
most-of the sightings recorded
reported are terrestrial in origin: aero-
planes with navigation lights glowing at
night; satellite launching rockets burning
up on re-entry; remotely piloted vehicles,
now beginning to be called RPVs; up on
trial flights; weather balloons; trick
reflections of light. In the extra-terrestrial
class I am afraid that I cannot think of
anything other than meteorites, Northern
Lights and hall Iightninrr, but there are
probably other well known physical
phenomena within the knowledge of
astronomers and meteorologists.
I feel, however, that some of the
reports we have had-and we can for the
time being leave out Ezekiel-are not
readily explained in terms of any of the
possibilities which I have mentioned. The
New Zealand phenomena are worth much
more investigation than they have yet
had, but so far, in so far as I have been able
to understand what has been reported,
they do not appear to be explicable in
terms of any of the suggestions which I
have so far made. That seems to f!O for the
quite extraordinary \videspread '"'sightings
recently in Italy, where hundreds of people
as reasonble as you and l, my Lords, seem
to have seen quite inexpljcable things in
the sky. It would be worthwhile trying to
explain them, and if there are people v.;ho
know what they are, they ought to tell us.
The high probability in my mind is that
1281
they are ter
extra -terrest
to be feasibl
paths wbich
were seen sc
are terrestri·
able to ident
1 bdieve
l!ation, sue·
Earl, Lord
could not
phenomena
the earth a
system. J
material pr
system, rna
of a dii
luminous
that in ce
visible and
certainly sh
explanation!
the atsronQ
from outerl
be foolish
an
think
exposed thi;
indeed. '
If we

must listen
1
might call'
be argued,,
our
space
vehicular
the Mo:)n.
argument
in space cr:
are probinJ
means no'
using their
stations
Jines which
mentioned
must be r
possibility,
would call
But if ''
as the no1
exclude th
intelligcnct
quotation
evening, a:
this House
"There are'
Horatio",
..
i·n;:a
.· .. ,. ., . I
"'· ··" \
\.(' )
(,efore
::
::t! here

:itl:!bk
this i$
..:
\\' th::t
this
cnt. l
iy two
· skies:
of
of tho
('hines,
. lik:-.
ir.J are
the
·.:rhaps
J and
aero-
:ing at
·urnill!!
·hides:
up on
trick
rest rial
ink of
1rthern
rc are

r;e of
)f the
'or the
not
of the
'. The
much
·e yet
n able
ortcd,
blc in
hich I
or the
htings
)COpJe
. seem
1gs in
ing to
e \\·ho
ell us.
s that
' :
'• :._ • ._L,
1281
Unidentified
[ 18 JANUARY 1979]
Flying Objects 1282
they are and the only J
extra-tcrrestnal possibilities do not seem
to be fcasibk because of the very eccentric I
paths which the objects, or iights, which
were seen seem to have taken. But if they I
are terrestrial phenomena, we ought to be
able to identify them.
I believe that any dispassionate investi-
gation, such as I understand the noble
Earl, Lord Clancarty, would wish to have,
could not ignore the possibility of the
phenomena having their origins outside
the earth and perhaps outside the solar
system. as meteorites are chance
material projectiles originating in the solar
system, may there not be random matter
of a ditTerent character-perhaps a
luminous but insubstantial character-
that in certain circumstances becomes
visible. and attracted to our area? I
certainly should be readier to accept some
explanation in terms of what I might call
the atsronomical phenomena than ships
from outer space. It would, I suppose,
be foolish to deny that possibility, but as
an explanation of phenomena-and I
think that the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn,
exposed this-it is surely a very long shot
indeed.
If we are to conduct any dispassionate
inquiry-and I think that we should-we
must listen to the proponents of what one
might call the Star Trek view. It can
be argued, not unreasonably, that we in
our humble way are probing nearby solar
space with our Venus and Jupiter and other
vehicular probes. \Ve have ventured on to
the Moon. ls it not presumptuous, the
argument goes, to suppose that elsewhere
in space creatures more advanced than us
are probing into our space, probing with
means now occasionally visible to us,
using their own RPVs, controlled from
stations light years away, rather on the
lines which the noble Earl, Lord Kimberley,
mentioned? It is a possibility which we
must be prepared to consider. It is a
possibility, though not many of us, I feel,
would call it a probability.
But if we do have a study of UFOs,
as the noble Earl desires, we could not
exclude the possibility of extra-terrestrial
intelligences from our consideration. This
quotation has been given twice this
evening, as well as a dozen times outside
this House in this connection, but,
" There are more things in Heaven and Earth,
Horatio",
Hamlet said,
"than are drearnt of in your philosophy".
And Heaven, my Lords, has always
offered us more pos,ibilities than earth.
Although I remain sceptical of intelligent
invasion from outer space, 1 recall the
dictum of the late Mr. Sherlock Holmes
when he was investigating the curious
matter of the Sign of Four:
" When you have diminated the impossible,
whatever remaim, however improbable, must be
the truth".
The desirability of getting mtional ancl
acceptable expianations for the odd
phenomena which arc being r.;:ported
-even if, like some other para-normal
phenomena, they are subjective--in my
opinion is not, or should not be, merely
to satisfy our curiosity. Here I am
coming from rather a different angle to
something which was discussed in greater
depth by the right reverend Prelate the
Bishop of Norwich.
There is a social danger, in my view,
in leaving people in ignorance of the
origins of these phenomena. I have
recently learned from a number of
sources that there have grown up. in
North America particularly, many groups
and cults whose attitudes arc based on
beliefs that UFOs are influential outer-
spatial manifestations interested in this
earth. In some cases these groups arc
looking to outer space for Man's salvation.
Jf this is right, !t is rather disturbing.
1. find, too, that in this country there
are groups interested, other than purely
scientifically, in the UFO phenomena.
I had a letter--and I think that other
noble Lords may have had the same letter
--earlier this week from an ecumenical
Christian group which believes, among
other things, that UFOs menace the
spiritual health of the nation; that they
are anti-Christian and that information
exists about them which is being withheld.
It seems to me that this association of
UFOs with mysticism and religion makes
explanation of the true origins of the
phenomena a matter of great importance
and of some urgency. The sooner that
each reported sighting or landing is
satisfactorily explained, the better. It
is no good just laughing them off or trying
to laugh them ofr; we must seek the truth
and tell it.
My Lords, I remain sceptical, perhaps
more sceptical than anyone who has
f.
.
!,'
·,

'*c·... .....
. ........... '
1283
Unidentified
[LORDS]
Flying Objects
1284
[Lord Kings Norton.J { far with little enough results except to
spoken this evening except the noble wonder why the bounds of natural physics
Lord, Lord Trefgarne. 1 remain sceptical j seem to be broken on aU sides. Most
of the more bizarre extra-terrestrial ex- say th::t UFO:; do
planations. I remain more tban sceptical, not exist, but r. think th:.;t the French I
indeed, incredulous, of what the noble Minister of Defence, Robert Gdley, in
Earl in his .Motion called "landings "; February, 1974, said that they do; that his
but I support him wholeheartedly in l1is Government tak(:;s thoa sericusly and rh2t
wish for a serious inquiry. I l:ope that they have been studied secretly by a spcci;;J
the Government will tr.ke steps to put deparrment for ever 20 years. Indeed
such an inquiry in hand. Fin;>.Ily, I France leads the world in UFO rc-scr;rch:
ccme back to the matter of It has followed 1.:p sightings with rclice
In his Motion, the noble Earl called for teQms, scientists and scholars and, since
"an intra-governmental study". The 1950, the Deuxii!lne Bureau of the Army.
noble Lord, Lord Trdgarnc, and, I think,
the noble Lcrd, Lord Gladwyn, took
this to be an inter-governmental study.
But " intra " means " within ". I was
puzzled by use of the prefix, but that
is what it means and what
the noble Ead meant. But why a study
within the Govcrnm(:nt? 1 would support
th.e idea of a Governme!lt-suppo.-ted
open investigatio;1 by a carefully chosen
group of scientists and technologists with
some funds <:t their disposal; but a study
within Government v:ould seem to smack
of a secret probe, which would be no
Oddly, in that s:1me yezr, a remr..rkable
report came from F.::rmington, New
Mexico, on 18th March, whea ihc i::h::tbi-
tants of that town were treated to a dispby
of flying s<>ucers tkt literally filled the s:.;:y
above them. important
newspaper told the :;tory. With few
excertions, the <:ntire tm.vnship cf 5,000
people, including the mayor, newspaper-
men and members of rh::: Highway Petrol,
breathlessly watched an air show to end
then ali, a f<mtasti-:: ai;: circus. Countless
saucers performed aerial <'crcbatics at
speeds cf 1,000 ra.p.h. showing incredible
handling, acute control in split-second
timing by their <1bility to avoid co!lisio01s.
good at all.
I have no objection to a House of
Lords study group, but they could
scarc:eiy r.·erform in the \vay that a public My Lords, th::.t wss hardly a We£1ther
organisation supported, say, by the learned b:::llon convention.
societies and the engineering institutions I, 't., 't , · , ,
1
.. t ro fth "O h
c<;mld per[orm. It. is somet9ing of !liat , .:>
1
• c "',e "'-
kmd that 1 hke to see li!"OU'C:ht mto \,JL a' \ ... st L: v\):-.dgv of
bema under <.JG'.'.:rnmcnt or W1t•1 Govern- · - ·. " "- '
. . •
6
1 1;s buuld IJe bll''d to •
"" " f r . . t I \vonders 1.:1 the sbes <' bove? Men
.
i nent supporc: a group o uspasswna .. e t' .. ,.""'' ,
1
tl'" .. _, ·
1
.. ,, , b .
1

people \vith the power, tl1e money and -Me l..o.·:·?\ .. . '' as
staff on a modest scale to investioate.


01
" 1dd,en ha\·e Itported
Perhaps in bs reply later this seen stn;ngc SI¥hts the heavens.
tl
, ·b'"' Lo ·d I ord· "t .. •,0 ,. · ,.
1
<>
1
M.:my men have seen taese Sights arrd have
,e r;o '" l ' . .... l<lv ,;n, \\1 t l . t 1 n ,, d b
comment on the suggestion.

·. oeen :ms a (en. "J.lO arc we to ou t
tne1r word? Who are Governments that
dare to ridicule the honest? Not long
9.4 p.m. ago the Loch Nm monstec was >egafficd
Lord RANKEILLOUR: My Lords, as?. fable, but now cur naturalist
first, I must t1umk the ncb!e Earl, Lord says that it (or they, possibly) probably
Clanc<!rty, for this debnte, the subject of exists. Why, then, should unidentified
which h2s long needed an r.nd, flying objects be any harder to believe,
alth•:;ugh the noble Viscount, Lord espcci[!Jiy as they h:wc been seen far more
Oxfuird, is not in his ser.t, ne\'ertheless I frequ::ntly? My L'Jrds. Of course they
him on h.is sprech. The exist. Only a few v>eeks ago a Palermo
UFO sag" is deep and complex and there policeman photogrn;)hed one, and four
ore no kn::Hvn C.':perts to keep us t!p to date I Italian N.wy oii1cers &bc•<trd a light patrol
v:i1h eYerything to do wit:l it including. 1'ts bo::tt in in the early hours of
mcch<.nics. However, scientists through- the morning, saw a 300-yard long fiery
out world have been drawn into <:n craft rising f.rom the sea n.nd
. . d' . . I' 1 k Od 1 ,. • • •
ever-mcreasmg ;1:ct!ss;cn 2s to ,--nwt mto s y. ct, str,:mge, rngnterung,
UFOs are and where they come from, so Dlft apparently tn:e. Indeed, why
. 'l''"•
1285
should thcf:e •
defence lie?
Whv should t
their sid:1hr:
a ;earl;y
Each year
UFOs
them arc veryl
are not, but
who see them!
this very poil
by most Gov
globe. In tb
those wh:> rer
to be misinfot
below par in
why has some
subject be•.;n
Ministry of l
this Ministry
false
fal$e informat
dvil nnd Air
sailors and
public who
perience wlu<
frightened thei
My '
know; and l

i;l one form 01
and they cb
which
physics. Let
toJ..! by Her
reai detaih on
them, for by co::
only becon1e.s
ago a UFO \\
the Hi!:!hland:;,
bu
safe to go on i:
Who is to knc
But co:ne they
that UFOs ex
how they ope:
would be of hu:
industrial iife,
without wings
dead-slow to
hover silently.
is above pri.::t:
country
every SGrap c,t
I therefore
the study of U
up a bureau th:
and sundry '•1
opposition, i;i '
·.
'
l "
i284
:s ex- to

ides. .Jost
'I UFr ')•)
d:e F:.
·r G2llev, in
;:o; th:;t his
,Jy and lh:::t
:)y ;l l

) :·e:sc<:rch.
PC:
?.no, Since
,cArmy.
CJJ,<'rkable
:c)r:, Ne,v
. he i:.habi-
J a disp!ay
ed the 5ky

1\'ith few
cf 5,000
:wsp<Jper-
Pi>.trol,
\ 1. to end
Countless
batics at
:1credibJe
it-second
ollisions.
weather
:Oth cen-
science
further
Men
:rrdcd as
·eported

::d have
:J doubt
Jts that
)t long

turalist
c'bably
:ntificd
)eli eve,
r more
they
!lcrmo
I four
patrol
urs of
: fiery


. why
1285 Unidemified [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1286
should these n·cn. of law enforc12mcnt :md
1
Every sighting and landing must be
defence lie? Of <.:.Jmse, they d.id n:n lie. thoroughly inves1igated by the bureau,
Why should cspeci:dly ns in t!lis c::sc in co-c;peration \\·:th the · police, the
their sighting V<'S cacked lip by JJ",cn from Royal Air Force, the radar people an3
a nearby r:.dar W1tion wi:o s:.:w it, too. the British-based UFO investigators.
Each year there arc many sightii:gs of
UF.Os throughout the world. Some of
them are very close at hand, while others
arc not, but alw<.ys the ef:'"'c! upo;1 those
who them is one of concern; 2i1d yet
this very point is ignord and ridiculed
by most Go\'crnmcnts right around the
globe. In the Un.;l.ed c::tse,
those who report urcs arc taken
to be misinformed, misguided and raiher
below par in If this is so,
why has some of nw information on this
subject been give::; to me by the
Ministry of Technology? Why should
this Ministry waste its time gathering
false Of course:, it is not
false information: it is d:1ta reportd by
civil and Air For::c pilots, police1:1en,
sailors and members of the general
public who have all had personal ex-
perience which has intrigued and/or
frightened them.
l\Jy Lords, what are UFOs? I do not
kr.ow; and nor, 3eemingly, do some
Governments: but these machines do exist
in one form or another, abstract or solid,
and they do trawl at stunning speeds
which seem to defv oroved natural
physics. Let the Kingdom he
told by Her Ma._;esty's Government the
real details on UFOs so far as they kno.v
them, for by silence the posijoa
only becomes worse. Only a few \'/eeks
ago a UFO was seen near Kingussie, in
the Highlands, and a few acres of Ashdown
Forest were burned by another one. Is it
safe to go on ignoring these appearances?
Who is to knO\V where they come from?
But come they have. Jf we accept, then,
that UFOs exist, we must next wonder
how they operate. Tbeir motive power
would be of huge help to our transport and
industrial life, for they apparently fly
without wings at ·varying speeds from
dead-slow to incredible onl!s, and even
hover silently. This kind of information
is above p1:ice, and therefore we as a
country should make every effort to collect
every scrap of information that we can.
I therefore ask this Government to make
the study of UFOs respectable by setting
up a bureau that can be approached by all
and sundry wiihout any red tape or
opposition, in an attempt to clear the air.
The ncble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, who
is to wid up this debate, is no doubt
sympathetic to the reasons for these
t.peeches, for it has become patently
obvious to a great many people that this
subjec1 has got to the pc,int when Govem-
mcm:ll c.xplanr.tio:1s be forthcoming.
A gr.::atcr measure of open govermncnt is
long overd!le, and b_ringing the UFO saga
into the realm of respectability would
be cne way of achieving this, in part .
I S'.tspcct that the British Government do
have a Department studyhg UFO sigbt-
ings, for why else should they bother to go
to such trOlible to publicly debunk reportd
ones if they are of no interest them?
Quite apart from the fact that the Govern-
ment hav:! not admitt::d to the existence
of UFOs, these machi;-:es are potentiaily
dangerous. They give off blinding light,
crippling rays and sometimes beams that
immobilise humans; they start forest fires,
eradicate crops and cause great distress
to animals. If the British population \Vas
aware of this, they could sometimes tc.kc
precautio!lS. UFOs have been with us
for maay generations, so is it not about
time that we ofrkially recognised their
existence ar:.d treated as less of a
hot poU;to than hitherto?
Bcfor;:: the noble Earl, Lord Halsbvry,
takes me to task once again on the subject
of' sonk boon1s, I haYe one suggested
answer to the que:;tion why these high-
speed UFOs do not produce sonic booms.
It is thought that these cmft caa produce a
near vacuum envelope around themselves,
which in turn would allow them virtually
tmlimited speed because they would thus
be free of nearly ail normal resistance,
as they would be flying within it. Not
being a scientist, I cannot enlarge upo_n
this explanation, but I hope it is of some
assistance to the noble
9.14p.m.
Lord GAINFORD: My Lords, first
may I add my congratuJat!ons to my noble
friend Lord Oxfuird for his brilliant
maiden speech. I hope t11at we are going
to hear hir;1 many times again because it is
quite obvious from what we have heard
from him this evening that he Is going to
I
i,'
!
i
.,.
1287 Unide11ti/ied [LORDS] Flying Objects 1288
[Lord Gainford.] and who have not yet disappeared from
receive every possible encouragement to the scene who could make valuable use
take part in many debates in the future. of their past experience in establishing
My main contribution to this debate is to centres in various districts throughout the
assure the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, of country-and I do not suggest that we
any support that I can give. If we are start opening up the old observer posts
going to have a study group in your in the countryside-to receive and analyse
Lordships' House I shall be glad to be a any reported sightings from the public.
volunteer to take part whenever I h:we the Such people with a sense of responsibility
opportunity. I also thank him and others could, with a little experience, sift the
for initiating this debate, and for the genuine reports from the false.
pleasure of having such a refreshing subject
to discuss in the midst of the present Suggesting that such an organisation
period of crices and strikes. be set up, particularly at times like these,
can naturally give rise to a protest about
I am the lOth person to speak in this the waste of public money; but volunteers
debate. I have noticed that so far none of who might be willing to work for a few
your Lordships have actually reporteJ a hours are quite prepared to do it for very
sighting, so here goes! I am going to stick small remuneration, if any at all. 1 have
my neck out, open my big mouth and mentioned the Civil Defence Service, and
trust I am not going to put my foot in it! I did not know whether or not I should
I saw a UFO a little while ago. It was on declare an interest, but I was a member of
31st December about 8 p.m. All right, it during the 'sixties ancl I was one of
my Lords, have a good laugh, it was many who were bitterly disappointed when
Hogmanay! Up in Argyll it was a New it had to go into abeyance. I recall
Year's Eve party and somebody said there particularly the conrradeship and the
was something funny f!yi11g across the sky. sense that we were doing a useful job for
Fifteen of us came out to have a look, the community.
including some children. They had been
drinking soft drinks anyway! The object If I hau the time and opportunity, I
was like a bright white ball with a iouch I should enjoy volunteering for working
of red followed by a white cone. In fact in a UFO information centre, if that
the whole object had the appearance of a ·1 might be a suggested name for the
small comet. It was heading eastwards organisation that would be required. I
and seemed rather low in the sky, passing I shall be interested to hear the surnmings
up in this debate. I can give no explana-
over the hills between Loch Sweyne and tion why there should be these phenomena
Loch Fyne. The position from which we
viewed it was outside the village of Tay- within p2.rticularly the past
32 years as was confirmed by the nob
1
e
vallich in Argyllshire on the West coast Earl, Lord Clancarty, and these flying
of Scotland about the same latitude as
saucers in the year 1947 \Vhen the phrase
Glasgow. was coined; but I would just accentuate
As the ball disappeared into the distance
it seemed to divide into two parts. It
may have been a comet or a meteorite,
but I should like to know what it really
was. It would have been very beneficial
if there had been some sort of centre to
which I could \Vrite or telephone to report
such an incident. No doubt setting up
such an organisation would be an invita-
tion to pranks, but for starting such a
centre I suggest that volunteers could
readily be found from the ranks of the
former Civil Defence Service and/or the
Royal Observer Corps. The Royal Ob-
server Corps still exists but it has literally,
if not metaphorically, gone underground
where it is preparing to report and advise
on nuclear fallout in the case of war.
But there are many who used to serve it

what has been said before and add that
if they are man-made or some astronomical
feature, and provided there is no risk of
any security breach, then the public have
a righ.t to know about them.
9.20 p.m.
The Earl of HALSBURY: My Lords,
in common with everyone else who has
spoken, I should like to thank the noble
Earl, Lord Clancarty, for giving us an
opportunity to have, as it were, a scamper
over the course and exchange views on
this very interesting and controversial
topic. At the same time, I should like
to congratu1ate the noble Viscount O!l
his maiden speech, which was obviously
a very well thought out and well assemble
1289
set of co
for his fu
where 1 k
At the
the noble
like to tel
the sighti
them in
beginning
an angel.
the noble
who men
was the r
the noble
is perfec
guardian
bed. Na
a child, I
form with
This prese
initiating
gel me in
Having r
life and a
to deny t
was there
sufficient c
I have pu
if scientis
cannot ex
kind of
welcome
because it
it were, sti
out somet
The ne
of World
old, and
weJIC Zep,.
dark into
we lived
number ot
I had see
Zeppelin
cigar-shap
looking •
the pcrspt
· on to a
interpret in
telling my
I had seen
The nex
very close.
Lord Dav.
Macbeth's
graphic rc
really arc.
interpret:.! t ·
H.L. 3 Q
.
1ppealfrom
v:1l use
:' est,
. -. -.·";1 o-h ·--...."t-1·
-· ...... t:"-*-- \.Jl
,·;c·st L \ve
· Jserv;:.!· posts
c and ;;;nalvse
·, the pubiic.
: .::,ponsihilit v
::.:e. sift the

-, like these,
'!·)test about
::t vohmtccTs
.k for a few
o it for very
ill!. 1 have
Service, and
':ll I should
; of
.... ,1s one of
·'intcd when
-· 1 recall
1 and the
<'ful job for
··or!unity, I
•r working
re, if that
,; for the
'quircd. I
summings
o
henomcna
.1" the pnst
the nob
1
e
c:se fty·ing
•he phrase
Jcccntuate
add that
ronomical
10 risk of
!blic have
·y Lords,
who has
he noble
g us an

·icws on
roversial
.uJd like
)Unt O!J
bviously
rssemb!e
·--- .. ...... '
1289 Unidentified
[ 18 JANUARY 1979 J
Flying Objects
12S'<O
set of considerations, which augurs well
for his· future in your Lordships' House,
wl1ere I know he is already welcome.
At the risk of capping the of
the noble Lord, Lord Gainford, I should
like to tell your Lordships about some of
the sightings I have seen. I will order
them in terms of my curriculum ritae,
beginning at the age of six, when I saw
an angel. I do not know whether it was
the noble Lord, Lord Davie3 of Leek,
who mentioned aneels, or \\+ether it
was the noble Lord: Lord Trefgarne, or
the noble Earl, Lord Kimberley; but it
is perfectly true that there was my
guardian angel sitting on the edge of my
bed. Naturally, with the imagination of
a child, I clothed lhis presence in human
form with a large pair of feathery wings.
This presence procec-ded to rebuke me for
initiating a practice which it said would
_get me into trouble if I persisted in it.
Having remembered the rebuke all my
life and acted upon it, I am not prepared
to deny the reality of the presence that
was there with me. This should be a
sufficient answer to the noble Earl-l see
I have put him to flight-who thinks that
if scientists come across something they
cannot explain they are afflicted with a
kind of vertigo. On the contrary, we
welcome something we cannot explain
because it is a new phenomenon which, as
it were, stretches our capacities and brings
out something in us.
The next item came along in year two
of World War I. I was about eight years
old, and the next thing that I sighted
were Zeppelins. I used to go out after
dark into the garden of the house where
we lived and come back reporting the
number of Zeppelins I had seen. What
I had seen, in my interpretation of it, a
Zeppelin-it was a large illuminated
object. In fact what I was
looking at was the lenticular shape that
the perspective of a searchlight thrown
· on to a makes, and I was
interpreting it as a Zeppelin and I was
telling my parents how many Zeppelins
I had seen.
.
f.l The
1
nex
1
t s
1
undohgs and this fits
1
very c ose y Wit w 1at t e noble Lord,
Lord Davies of Leek, was saying about
Macbeth's dagger and the laser
graphic reconstruction of things which
really are not there. What sort of an
interpretation would somebody who had
H.L.8 Q
never read about these or read about them
put upon sundogs? Most people have
not seen them or read a bout them. I
wa:; fortunate enough to liave read about
them and to have known the explanation
before 1 saw the first.
When you look at a cloud with drops
of water, you are looking at a diffuse
reflection of the but if instead of
there being drops of water in the cloud
there are drops c·f ice, .and if they were
form.:d unJer meteorological conditions
where all the facets of the crystals ha ppcn
to be pnrallcl as they f::;_ll through a rising
stream so that they arc remaining roughly
stationary, the effect is of a rather dilute
mirror, if one can so describe it. Jf the
sun is up there, you see it actually reflected
in this imaginary mirror down through
the cloud, and one does not exnect to
1
see the sun looking down in this direction.
Still less does one expect to perceive it
travelling along beside one. Furthermore,
one is not accustomed to focusing
eyes on infinity in that particular direr:tion.
The only times it would be appropriate
to do so would be if you were standing
on top of a skyscraper where the vanishing
point would be down here instead of over
there, and it makes you rather dizzy.
Seeing a sky dog is a rather uncanny
sort of phenomenon. You cannot focus
on it properly; it does not seem to be
in particular. 1t is flying along
beside you-and what sort of terms would
a person, who had never seen it bl!fore
or read r. bout it, report it in? I think that
they \vould be rather bewildered. They
might report it just as a child would
report the vision of an angel as having
human form and feathery ·,vings. So it
might easily be reponed as anything that
they had read about.
I now come to the green flash. I was
about 20 and a student, and there was
a controversy in the p:ges of The Times
and in the correspondence columns of
Nature about the green flash. What is
it? Under certain rather rare atmospheric
conditions, the last glim of the setting
sun suddenly flashes brilliant emerald
green. When I was a student 50 years
ago, this phenomenon· v:as not realiy
established. It was possible to have a
controversy as to whether there was
such a phenomenon. People wrote to
The Times saying that they had seen it.
I remember one man who said that he
-· --·-.' ..... ... .. .. ........ ... ,_, .
-·----· , ...... _.. ... '
.......
..
...
e

1291 (LORDS] Flying Objects 1292
[The Earl of Halsbury.J / Lord DAVIES of LEEK: My Lords
had seen it when sitting by the shore off . may I ask the noble FarJ one question.?
It was eyentually phot?graphed 1 he eyer seen a mirage? That
durmg the InternatiOnal Geophys1cal Year, ; easily explicable, and one can also see it
the IGY, some years ago. 1 easily.
However, before that I saw it myself /
in rather odd circumstances, after having 1
read about it. I was bird watching in I
the far North-West of Scotland, by a i
loch called Loch Glcncoul, near a little 1'
village called Drumbcg, where there is a
1
cliff path. On that cliff path, there is a 1
bench for the convenie11ce of people who /
want to sit down and admire the view. ;
Another traveller, a visitor to the district, !
was sitting upon the bench when 1 sat ·
dovm and, by a chance coincidence, we
v,:erc both using the same type of Hensholt
binoculars and ·we got talking about our
binoculars. There was a spectacular
sunset, and when the sun was very low
and it was safe to look at it through
·binoculars, I said to my fellow traveller,
The Earl of HALSBURY: Yes, my
Lords, and one can reproduce a mirage
in the laboratory. You have a long trav
of sand with bunsen burners unden1eath
it, and you look at it from one end. It
is quite a reproducible kind of phenomen.
Science deals with material objects-
things such as atoms and molecules;
material processes-things such as the
emission and absoption of radiation·
and material forces-things such as
; force fields which couple the objects to
i the processes. But if things are not
" Let us se\! if we can watch the
flash ". So we trained our binoculars
and this very rare meteorological pheno-
menon actually happened when 1 had
just said to a fello>v bird watcher, " Let
us have a -look to see if it happens".
What would that person have made of it
if I had not been there, just by chance,
to tell him what the green flash was
about?
/ material, then science has nothing to say.
If you want to know what is the con-
sciousness of a mind, I do not think
science can either answer the question,
on the one hand, or say whether it is a
proper question, on the other hand.
Therefore, from the scientific point of
view, I can deal only -.vith the assumption
that these are material objects, ::mel, if they
! are material objects, then, if they travel
I at the kind of speeds that are alleged, .
! why do they not make supersonic bangs :
I
when travelling above I? The ,
noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, made
/ this point, and the noble Lord, Lord
I Lastly, I come to ball lightning.
1
! Rankeillour, also made it. l should lib:
1
have never seen ball lightning, but the 1 to go into the point in a little more depth.
description one reads of it is so coherent,
1
so similar in all that 011e must f:ccept We customarily express the speeds of
it as a phenomenon which occurs regularly fast moving objects in terms of Mach
in nature, though we cannot reproduce numbers. Mach 1 is the speed of sound
it in nature and attempts to reproduce it appropriate to temperature and pressure
in the laboratory are, to my mind, where the sound is being propagated.
unconvincing. There is no theory of it. In terms of miles per hour, it is not a
It appears to take the form of a football- constant figure, but the advantage of using
shaped mass of glowing gas which hops it as a parameter is that no matter what the
around or, if it has a chance, gets on to a I temperature and pressure may be, Mach 1
cond!lctor f;uch as the rail in the gallery / is the speed at which the kinetic energy of
here and migrates along the conductor I a moving object-that is, the power to
until it finally disappears with a bang. / pack punch-is equal to its thermal
It has never been srrtisfactorily photo- energy. This is an unstable condition.
graphed, to my knowledge. If it has The least disturbance to these unstable
been, then the photograph must be a conditions entails the com·erison of kinetic
fairly recent one, and, as I say, it has not energy into thermal energy with a bang, and
been reproduced. But this, again, should this is what is called the shock wave. If
assure the noble Earl, Lord Kimberley, one takes a cross section through a shock
that, faced with an unknown phenomenon wave, there is a rise in pressure, tempera-
which I cannot explain, 1 do not get ture and entropy. There is complete
vertigo. J should be delighted to go discontinuity. That must happen when a
ball lighming watching, as I go bird material object is moving at Mach I or
watching. above through any medium.
1293
The
noble Lord,
not had very
he sprung it c
is this. lf \ ·
what would.h
placed? Wo
;l!ld push it
means of tra•
Y•)ll arc mer
\\ ards at the
create a sup
Custom:1rily.
bangs hc-caus
stern wa,·c fr
times the ba;'
just as a thu
rumble. An)
uncomfortab!
are aware tha
bang as the
· . If these are
I are moving a
see th-:m doiu
so eitha the.
, they are ;JOt
: in which
optical illu::io
the rest of the
them.
In this we•:!
today, there is
and { should I
a passage fro1
h CJr\...c;sk con
r.tdar beams "·-
this tunes in
noble Lord. l
•• in th::;
the- nights tt
of December.
Neil

h;.
spotted lla.
brilliant hgl.t .,.
airborne TV ·:r.:·
There is ncd1
whether the Oj
si!!htings can::·
lhe saJuc digt
We shall ha\

I nr.1c
that the rig.ht
of Not'\vic:l h·
bv some of t
Lord, Lord 1
too. I do ·nt
reads the C.
H.L. S Q2
Yes, my
a miraf!e
lvnf! tn'tv
ndt:fJ1C;i th
·: encl. 1t
he nomen.
objc-cts-
::olecul\!s·
as
·adiation:
·h as the
·bjects to
Hrc not
g to say.
the con-
ot think

r it is a
r hand.
1oint of
umption
1, if thev
y travel
alleged,
c ban!!s
? The
:, made
, Lord
like

:eds of
Mach
'sound
rcssure
1gated.
not a
fusing
1at the
fach 1
rgy of
ver to
!erma]
lition.
stable
inetic
!,and
-· )f
;hock
pera-
'Plcte
1en u
I or
1293 u,ritfemi/ied [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1294
The ans\\·Cr to the question put by the fiction, Out of the Silent Pianet, Perelandra,
noble Lord, Lord Rankeillour- I haw and That Hideous Strength, will ever have
not had very lo:H! to think it out because his faith disturbed by doing so. C. S.
h.:' sprung it. on n1e as a bit of a surprise-- Lewis, who was a profoundly Christian
is this. lf you were to create a vacuum, apologist, wrote the most marvellous space
what would happen to the air you had dis- fiction of a complex universe, in which
placed? Would you pull it in in front some of the created species were tempted
and push it out behind'? lf that is your and fallen, like ourselves; others were
means of travelling through the medium. tempted and unfallen; and othc:rs were
)'<)U arc merely moving some air back- untempted. And they all had to live
'' urds at the speed of sound, and it would together in the same universe. I have
create a supersonic bang just the same. always regarded the deeps of space and the
Customarily, very often we hear two immense time that it would take to travel
b:1ngs because there is a bow wave and a from one inhabited world to another as
stern wave from the moving object. Some- being a kind of divine quarantine to
times the bang degenerates into a rumble, prevent created beings from intcrferirl!!
just as. a thunderclap degenerates into a with one another's cultures until they are
rumble. Anv noble Lords who have been civilised enough and mature enough to
uncomfortably close to a lightening bolt reach the point when thcv no longer want
arc aware that it makes a very pronounced to do so. Too much· of our- science
bang_ as the spark flies through the air. fiction is taken up with the supposition
that vastly superior kings to ourselves
are motivated by the same rather un-
worthy commercial motives as ours,
and that they want to steal our coal mines
or our water or set up imperialisms.
1 If these arc material objects and if they
/;are moving at the speeds alleged, I cannot
sec doing other than making a bang,
:: so either they are not material objects or
'i they are 110t moving at the spe"ds alleged,
(; in which case the speeds arc some kind of
optical illusion. This thro\\•s doubt upon
the rest ofttw reports that we received upon
them.
In this week's New Scientist, published
today, there is a report from New Zealand,
and I should like to read to your Lordships
a passage from it:
" Classic conditions
radar beams "-
The little piece of fiction that I have
always enjoyed most concerned a ilving
saucer which was hovering slowly rn a
circle round Centra! Park in New York
and all the security forces turned out in
order to do sometf.ing about it. As it
went round, it became more and more
dear that it was going round in a spiral
and r1ot a circle and as the spiral grew
f.:sr false reflections of smaller so the flying saucer grew smaller
untjl it was very little more than the size
of a waistcoat button going round the
head of a maiden in New York Central
Park. All security forces converged on
her because It was clear from the expres-
sion on her face that she was receiving a
message, at which she smiled. Finally.
the \vaistcoat button feii on to the path
and was picked up and proved to be a
waistcoat button and the security forces
converged upon the maiden and bullied
her into telling them-and she did not
want to-what the flying saucer had told
her. She said "I don't \Vant to, because it
will spoil it all." They said " Never mind.
it may be very important for the securitv
of the United States ". She said " Weli.
all it said was 'Don't be unhappy; you
are not the only lonely object in the
universe'." I think that is a much more
comforting thought with which to approach
the subject of flying saucers than to sup-
pose that they are engaged iq some kind
of irnperialism. .
this tunes in very much with what the
noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, said--
" existet:l in the- atmosphere over New Zealand 0n
the nights that the UFOs were spotted at the <'nd
of December, Christchurch meteorologist, Dr.
Neil Cherry, has reported. UFOs were both
spotted oa radar and seen by an airiin<:: pilot, and a
brilliant light subsequently filmed by an
airborne TV crew"'.
There is nothing in that report tosuggest
whether the optical sightings and the radar
sightings came from the same point, or on
the same alignment, or at the same time.
We shall have to wait until the details
become available.
1 was much impressed by everything
that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop
of Norwich had to say on this matter and
by some of the things which the noble
Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, had to say,
too. I do not think that anybody who
reads the C. S. Lewis trilogy of space
H.L. 8 Q2
... -. ·::·· ....... - .. ._, ...
,.
: ,;; ;

.. .
, .
,,
,,
1295
Unidentified
[LORDS]
Flying Objects
1296
[The Earl of Halsbury.]
Personally I have always believed, with
the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, in
the Lochness monster. He is not the
only person to believe in it. He was anti-
cipated by Keats and I am quite sure that,
when the poet wrote the line,
something, but of course we are precisely
saying that if they are unidentified flying
objects, we do i1ot know what they are.
So I quite agree, let us dismiss the concept
1 of flying saucer equals UFO to start v,·ith.
Let us try to take a slightly more scientific
approach.
· "Thou still unravishcd bride of quietness",
he must have had the monster in mind.
Of course he did not go into it in great
detail :. he did not tell us whether the
monster was viviparous or oviparous. It
may, of course, lay eggs, but if unravished,
then infertile, and that is perhaps why there
is only one of it. I have al\\ays thought
that just as mother, when baking bread,
leaves a little of the dough over in order
that the children may make funny little
men with raisins for tummy buttons and
put them into ovens and bake them along-
side the bread or the cake for the day, so
possibly on the day of creation a little ?f
the Divine creative power was left m
reserve :for the lesser cherubim and
seraphirri to use and they were allowed to
make funny littie objects like the Abo-
minable Snowman and the Lochness
monster, and therefore by the grace of
God since this is an orderly universe and
a home is provided for everything, so the
snows of Tibet were created for the benefit
of the Yeti and Lochness was created for
the monster.
.. Lord HEWLETf: My Lords, I join
other noble Lords in the
noble Viscount, Lord upon his
maiden speech but I run the terrible risk
of being accused by the noble Lord, Lord
Davies of Leek, of being an anthro-
pological. arrogant specimen. I am not
quite sure what that means, afl:d I am not
quite sure that he knows what tt means.
. Lord DAVIES of LEEK: Oh!
Lord HEWLETT: All right, I am
prepared to stand by it. I am only sorry
to appear to be a veritable Daniel in a
lions' den of UFO believers and to spoil
the fun, and I have no doubt that today's
flights of --dare I say it ?-fancy will
command far more attention than our
debate yesterday upon British industry,
which scarcely made today's Press at all.
More's the pity. Of course, there is a
danger in terminology and in gross
assumptions. . Many noble Lords have
spoken as though UFOs were actually
I would not dream of speaking in this
debate had I not asked my very good
friend and neighbour in the Cheshire
vill::ge of Swettenham, Sir Bernard Lovell,
Fellow of the Royd Society and Nm1leld
Professor of Radio Astronomy, to be
good enough to brief me at Manchester
University Department of Radio Astron-
omy at Jodrell Bank, of which he is the
Director. I went there two days ago and
what I am about to say to your Lordships
is based entirely upon that round table
meeting with Sir .Bernard and the members
of his senior starr at Jodrel! Bank. Of
all the thousands of reports of sightings
that have.been made, w·henever it has been
possible to make an investigation they
have been found to be natural phenomena,
or in some instances, I regret to S<ty, pure
myth. Over the United Kingdom, Jodrell
Bank's radio telescope, the 1lrst and still
one of the most powerful in the world,
has observed thou';ands of possible subjects
for identification as lJFOs, but not a
single one has proved other than natural
phenomena. I would ask the noble Earl,
Lord Kimberley, to take the point on
board. If UFOs, as he suggested, defy
human knowledge, how do we really
know by means or possible
background they even exist at all'!
Let us get matters into perspective, my
Lords, I beg you. At least 10,000 pieces
of broken up rockets of American and
Russian origin are known to exist in
space and maybe there are many thousands
more, and occasionally they do plough
back into the atmosphere and burn up.
Those must account, I think your. Lord-
ships would agree, for at some of
the so-called sightings of UFOs. Nature
does provide fireballs,. yes, meteorites,
which bombard th'! earth at a rate of half
a ton a day. Just take a tiny country
like Holland. One hundred rocks the
size of your fist come through the atmos-
phere and hit that country in one year.
Consider Holland in rdation to the size
of the whole of the world's surface and
you must surely n:aiisc that we arc under
constant bombardment, not with UFOs
but with meteorites. A detailed study
1297
on the
how gre,
have jus
Evcn r.K'
1 estirnal.:.<
! and met
! of these
,i cive cau
flying ob
Wh:.>.ti
between
·I and the
i is low a1
I shining
\ it does
' other th
solar sy
even th
spotted ·
read th
It was
Venus
have de
of the
just poss
in this H
face it,
the mise
and pa
by all m
"Jaws''
confuse
study.
too far.
make y
stock by
One o
stations
statistics
has bee
30 years
for me
UfOs a
mudr, b
seen an
has hce.
and as
as 'i\·c
1
solar S)
Jf ther..:
noble E
of cour.
dclightc
an noun
it was J
the Sp ·
cleverly
atmos;p;
is sum
,•,
'fo-cts ' 1296
v·· precisely
u til · _ fied flying
-?W · are.
't!Stnlss ; conceot
to start with.
;:tly more scientific
,f ,-.peaking in this
:·j my very good
in the Cheshire
Bernard Lovell,
ctcty and Nufiield
.•;rronomy, to be
>Je at Manchester
of Radio Astron-
,f which he is the
• wo days ago and
'.O your Lordships
th?.t round tabie
c.nd the members
Jdrel! Bank. Of
;orts of sightings
it has been
n·estigation they
tttral phenomena
pet to say,
Kmgdom, Jodrell
•.he first and still
'ul in the world.
)ossible subjects
· Os, but not a
her than natural
: the noble Earl
e the point
suggested, defy
do we really
eans or possible
st at all?
perspective, my
st I 0,000 pieces
American and
vn to exist in
"Jlany thousands
hey do plough
. and burn up.
:nk your. Lord-
least some of
JFOs. Nature
::s, meteorites,
t a rate of half
1
tiny country
red rocks the
the atmos-
'1 m one year.
on to the size
's surface and
l we are under
't with UFOs
jetailed study
. ··--,, .. -._
if.
_ .. ,,, . _ , .. _... •• _ ...: "'-·-· ;,
1297 Unidentified ·.. [ 18 JANUARY 1979] ··'Flying Objects -1298
on the Canadian prairies has displayed 1 scientific lobby and some nasty, cheap.
how great is this bombardment which I I debunking exercise. No, my Lords. We
have just described over a wide area. must take a serious scientific vi:::w of the
Even more staggering is the fact that it is actual surveys and of what has been
I estimated that 8,000 million pieces of stone discovered.
I and metal come to earth annually, many
. \ of these buming up on arrival and these
give cause for these reports of unidentified
• flying objects.
What is noticeable is the ck>se correlation
between the posiiion of the planet Venus
; and the reports of UFOs. for when Venus
i is low and-bright in the sky and when it is
I
, shining through thick mist or thin cloud
it docs much more resemble something
' other than our next door· planet of the
solar system. Why, indeed, we are told
even the great President Carter has
spotted one, but it is a pity we did not
read the rest of the subsequent report.
It was later discovered that that was
Venus precisely in those conditions I
have described. If the great President
of the United States can be wrong, it is
just possible the few noble Lords remaining
in this House tonight might be, too. Let us
face it, we all would love to escape from
the miseries and frustrations of our world,
and particularly in these recent past days.
by all means go and see " Star Wars " or
"Jaws " or any other myth, but do not
confuse that with very serious scientific
study. That is carrying romance a little
too far. We must make sure we do not
make your Lordships' House a laughing
stock by doing so.
One of the most advanced experimental
stations at Jodrell Bank-just take these
statistics on board please, my Lords-
has been on watch 24 hours a day for
30 years. Do you not think it reasonable
for me to suggest that if there were
UFOs at least one claim would have been
made, but every single thing that has been
seen and observed by radio astronomy
has been identified as natural phenomena
and as occurring from the universe itself
as we know it-I do not say from the
solar system; I say from our universe.
If there were something in it-and the
noble Earl. Lord Halsbury, is so right-
of course the scientists would have been
delighted to come forward with an
announcement to that effect. After all,
it was Jodrell Bank that managed to locate
the Sputnik when the Russians, who so
cleverly launched it, lost track of it in the
atmosphere. So do not think that this
is some denigrating comment by the
Lord DAVJES of LEEK: My Lords,
I am delif!hted to hear what the noble
Lord However, I beg the noble Lord
to remember that there are other scientists
, who say that of course we know that there
are meteorites-there have been for the
whole of time--but there are some factors
outside that range which justify (and this
is all we ask) an attempt at identifi0ation.
There is no difficulty in identifying
meteorites. We are not asking for that:
we are asking for the identification of other
types of phenomena.
Lord HEWLETT: My Lords, that
promptly begs the question. That is
precisely what J am saying. The idcnti-
cations that have been made are not
necessarily of individual meteorites: they
are of endemic portions of rockets and so
on. During 30 years study and a constant
watch for 24 hours a day there has been
not a single sighting of any description
which could possibly or remotely be
considered worthy of serious study as a
UFO. Every sit:gle thing ha.s been
explicable. With all respe-ct, it is no J.ISe
noble Lords saying that this is not a
convenient unswcr: we must find some
things that are not explicable. l am telling
your and it is perfectly fair.
Your Lordships may say "S::ientists ".
I am quoting one of the leading world,
radio astronomers--indeed, probably the
leading world radio astro1wrner. Frankly,
scientists can be anyr.h!ng from a B.S-::.
London University, passed yesterday.
However, I am talking about 30 years
experience of radio astronomy and a
professorship of the highest standing and
order in the whole world. Both the
United States and the Svviet Union come
to Sir Bernard at Jodrell Bank for
assistance.·
Lord DAVIES of LEEK: My Lords,
nobody is denigrating what the noble
Lord is saying, but he is off beat here.
All we are saying is that there are some of
these phenomena that need
that is all.
Lord HEWLETT: My Lords, perhaps
the noble Lord could show me just one
".
-.:..,;,..
;· i
1299 U11ident(fied [ LORDS ] Flyi11g Objects 1300
[Lord Hewlett.] j trying to prove the existence of nothing
phenomenon whicJ1 requircs--I have or that something docs not exist. I am
given way a good number of times and I saying that in the scientific evidence so
should be grateful if the noble Lord would far-and I can deal only in detail with
let ·me finish my sentence. I am saying the United Kinc-dom-therc is no evider;ce
that Jodrcll Bank, which covers the whole \Vhatever from the greatest radio telescope
of the United Kingdom, has been on watch of a single UFO. l think that the
for 30 years. It is probably the most attitudes of defence establishments world-
powerful radio teiescope in the world. 1 wide, even including the Soviet Union,
With great respect, if it has found nothing j are probably wise; they must display the
whatsoever to report in a positive way antithesis of over-confidence and com-
then, for the noble Lord, Lord Davies of placmcy. lest there should perchance be
Leek, to throw at me, " some scientists some new arm of warfare that they have
think that ... " is not good enough. not adequately explored or even entered.
Particularly did this attitude apply in
Lord DAVIES of LEEK: My Lords. 1 the first decade after the Second World
we must not take more time. I' War when, frankly, the start of the
" cold war" and the intense fear of the
Lord HEWLETT: No my Lords, we Soviet Union's possible aggression against
must not, so f fear that the noble Lordi' the West when we were the sole possessors
must give way to the argument. I shall
1
of atomic V't:apons, must have provoked
give way to the noble Earl Lord Kimberley. l such a degree of intense interest in the
I knew that I slJould have a rough time! I possibility of a new arm of \Varfare.
I am sorry that the right reverend
The Earl of KIMBERLEY: My Lords, Prelate the Bishop of Norwich is not
does the noble Lord not think it con- here, but I am glad that the noble Lord,
ceivable that Jodrell Bank says that there Lord Trefgarne, is on the Opposition
are no UFOs because that is what it has Front Bench. I quote from Sir Bernard:
been told to say?
"Whether we are the only people in the
I
universe is entirely a11other matter. That is a
Lord HEWLEIT: I certainly think it subject of Yery serious importance and being
inconct:ivable-absolutcly and completely 1 investigated ".
[ have known 1 But there is no direct connection between
sctenttst personally for more than ...iOI · the possibility of other persons occupying
years. J would not drcatn of other bodies, either within or outside
along for a briefing, so to speak, on the , our own solar system. However, one
estimation that he was to con me or that thing is quite clear: there is an infinitesimal
I was some tool of the CIA to kid vour 1 chance that there e'\ists other people who
Lordships. Please do not let . m; carry I could be within our time-frame--and I
this fantasy too far. I shall deai with j refer of course to the statements made by
one or two other aspects of the noble/' the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, and the
Earl's speech and then he shall see somt: noble Earl, Lord Halsburv-who would
correlation to the whole of my argument. be able to spend perhaps ten or hundreds
I of light years getting here and who would Let us turn to the defence interests of ! •
1 have surv1ved that length of time in those
the P7ntagon and ,other Western defence ! atrocious conditions and entered our earth
''hen they have been I atmosphere assuming that they are some
challenged t •. ey l.1ave ,to say / of humanity and have some form of
UFOs do not N?t e they sa1d I flymg . • or whatever our friends
th:at UFO; do .cx1st. Tncy are com-
1
proc!alln
1
t ts. How could they possibly
mttted. We a1e all men of WOfl.d and j meet us in those circumstances? Let us
frankly are Ill makmg_ an , take the million-to-one possibility that
ovc1 -csttmate of_ the
1
they could. Do your Lordships mean to
potent1al .. of one s , tell me that they could get so clos':! to us
enemy ab1hty to combat one 1!1 I as to be sighted, but be incapable of any
, sectors
111
one .cannot adequately ' form of communication or identification
I
r thmk that 1t be most ! whatever? No, I am sorry.
unwtse of any defence establtshment to j
; make a categorical denial of UFOs, and , l have listened most carefully to every-
\ equally foolish of me to do so. I am not I thing that has been said. The noble
DOl
Earls, to
have clai
Christ, t
'· the prese
full vn:li
hnowlcd
cularly b
did not
had that
to unde
that we .
30 years
in the
No dou
proclaim
of sighti
not
mena \Vi
I am
even m
Snl\ivan'
I am af
House.
noble fr
will rna
I
, particul·
country
we have
fascinati
precious

w'C'"mu.
old wor
But i be·
the no·

Depart;:.
we ·shot•
excdlen'
9.55 p.n
The F
Lords,
Clanca

mysdf
markab

I kno·•,:
mere s:
about ::
almost
is one l
I view\
reprcse'
or
" ufob.
the r.:-
I ratho
.. }' -:;,
l3<¥l
"'
( .,
..
1301
..
[ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1302
J
1
thain
1
• Earls, Lord Clancarty and Lord Kimberley, 1 I admit the charm, the satisfaction, and
have claimed sightings from times bcfcrc
1
, the ne:1tness of UFO as--this is the word
cc so Christ, through the 1'\'liddle AJcs up to the !10ble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, is
wilh ) the present day. Those noble Earls know so good at--an acronym, coming from
dcnce . full well that t!1e of scientiik 1 '' unidentified flying object". But it
5cope . knowledge in the Middle Ages, and parli- j unfortunately leads to a word which to
the 'cularly before the times of Christ. simply · disrespectful persons, and there arc some
·or!d- i Jid not al1ow a tenable thwry that they about, might be suspec.tcd as originating
nicn, ;' had that degree of knO\vledge to be able somewhere between i!litemt;;y and the
Y the v to understand any of tht! phenomena purely silly; rather as th•.mgh a keen
C:clm- that we know todav. Indeed, in the last student of the of the. United
be 30 Y'-'ars there has l)ecn a dramalic change Nations should describe himself as a
haYe in the sum total of knowledge in this field. "Unologist ",and his interest" Unology ".
o:rcd. No doubt that if> why Jcdrell Bank can That w0uld have bern scYerely distressing
i' in proclaim that they have had no evidence to my late lamented friend Lord
'orld of sightings of any description which arc and indee:d to me.
the not perfectly explicable as natural pheno-
. the mena within our own universe.
lf there is an agency set up for collecting
and correlation of information, as I hope
there will be. I it could be called
"Ufo info··, which would have a certain
elfin charm.· But l am admittedly being
absurd, and being so on T am
doing it for defensive reasons, and I hope
that the noble Earl. will not think that I
am being offensive. I am not. I hope
that somebody will think of a better
word. There is in fact a Greek word
" teras", meaning a portent in the sen-;e
of a marvel or wonder, which would
generate quite !iicc!y a teratologist, or
teratology. In fact l am not sure that
teratology is not in the dictionary as the
of monsters. It not a word that
is widely used. it not on everyone's
lips very of:cn, and it wouid not really
matter if it v.·cre taken over to refer to
portents. There is a precedent for this
kind of thing, in teievisi0n. As noble
Lords will know, television originally
meant, before it meant wh;::t it means now
in the familiar sense as we understand
it, clairvoyance, and nobody finds any
confusion now. Whatever it may· be
known as. let us proceed and not waste
time.
1inst
;-;ors
)ked
the
·end
not
)fd,
lion
Jrd:

:s a
t:irag
een
•ag
ide
Jnc
nal
ho
i I
by
he
J!d
·ds
:ld

ih
1
1e
of
ds
ly
.JS
::t
0
IS
.y
n
·-
e
I am sorry, th;; existence of UFOs is
even nwrc f<:nciful than Giibert and
Sullivan's Ioianthe-charming indeed, but
I am afraid a joke upon your Lordships'
House. I am afraid that some of rny
noble friends join the flat-eartbers, who
will make the best playmates for this
l
, particular lobby. We have a duty to the
country to explode the myth. Tonight
we have been carried away in realms of
fascination and delight, but they have
precious little to do with the facts. I
sugge:.t that the myth must be exploded.
We must return to work in this dreary
old world and the difficulties we are in.
But I beg your Lordships, and in particular
the nobie Lord, Lord Strabolgi, fer
heavens' sake, no more Government
Departments of inquiries. That alone
we should be spared as the result of this
excellent debate.
9.55 p.m.
The Earl of CORK and ORRERY: Mv
Lords, I hope that the noble Earl, Lorcl
Clancarty, will not be cast down by the
speech to which he has just listened. I
myself must confess that I know re-
markably little about unidentified flying
objects. I know a few things about them.
I know quite a bit, and I have learned
more since the beginning of this debate,
about attitudes tow11rds them. They are
almost as interesting in some ways. There
is one type of attitude towards them that
I view with respect, and that is the attitude
represented by people who rail themselves,
or perhaps to be fair are called by others,
" ufologists ". I do not know whether
the noble Earl will accept that word.
I rather hope he would not.
I must make a remark-nobody has
done so so far, I suspect rather to his
surprise-about the speech of my noble
friend Lord Trefgarne. If he had been
speaking as a private Back-Bencher l
would probably have not said anything,
but he was speaking from the Dispatch
Box. Therefore, he presumably represents
the views of the Party to which I belong.
It is a view I wish to disown entirely,
I
because if a Party of any magnitude
cannot produce better views than that on
a serious subject, I confess I am ashamed
-- ·- ,."""... ......... • .... ,.. ,,- .... -....-.-.. _ . ._ -·.,.,·:-· .. ·-,. .
• .it ....
..
... :t.
1303 · Unidmtified [LORDS} Flyingbbje'cts l30.f
[The Earl of Cork and Orrery.]
of it. If this represents all that the
Conservative Party can produce in the
way of thinking on what is undoubtedly
a serious subject, whatever your opinion
about it may be, then this is
If the noble Lord really thinks that
there is no serious interest or belief taken
nowadays in witchnaft, perhaps he docs
not read the right newspapers, but I can
assure him that this is far from true. He
is not. a believer in unidentified flying
objects. " I am no believer in UFOs ",
he said. I do not know how you can not
believe in UFOs. You can take it for
granted, if your mind takes a leap ahead,
that by an unidentified flying object
something is· intended that is supposed to
have originated in outer space, and you
can say you do not believe in that. But
I do not know what it implies to say that
you do not believe in an unidentified
flying object. You do not believe in the
object? You do not believe in its flying'?
You do not believe it is unidentified?
There are things that are unidentified.
Perhaps we are not trying. I do not think
it is reasonable to say that they do not
exist. :Nobody, except my noble friend
Lord Hewlett, has seriously contended
that they do not exist. The question is,
\vhat are they?
· Lord TREFGARNE: I am pleased my
noble friend has allowed me to intervene,
my Lords, because he has been very caustic
about wLat I had to say. I do not deny
the existence of unidentified flying objects.
I simply say that most of them are iden-
tifiabie, that some are not objects at all
but simply a trick of the light or a meteo-
rological ·pheiJonemon-I think that is so
in many cases-and that I agree one
cannot deny the existence of unidentified
flying objects. 1t is simply a question of
how we identify them.
The Earl of CORK and ORRERY:
My Lords, I take my noble friend's point.
I am anxious not to misquote him, but he
also said that ufologists-it is difficult
not to use that word--refer.red to un-
explained sightings which would be
explained if only we had better evidence;
that was the gist of one part of my noble
friend's argument. In other words, if we
had better evidence we should be able to
explain those sightings. That is the
point on which the noble Earl initiated
I' ...
this debate. That is what I1e is asking for:
he wishes evidence to be collected,
collated, examined, evaluated and reported
on as to what these things are, and it is
notable that he himself did not say what
he thought they were. Other noble Lords
have spoken as though he had said they
were fairies or I do not know what. when
in fact he said no such thing. I believe he
is a leading authority on these matters-
certainly he has studied them more closely
than anvone else of whom I have heard-
and he· must have exercised very great
restraint in this matter. and he is to be
congratulated on that as well as on
initiating the whole debate.
I once had an ancestor-J still have
him in a sense, in that he is still my
ancestor although he is dead--called
Robert Boyle who founded a ·society
called the Royal Society. I feel that if he
returned to the rooms of that enor-
mously prestigious society now and found
that the present Royal Society contained
Fellows of such erudition and charm as
the noble Earl, Lord Halsbury, he would
feel entirely at home; a man of the most
agreeable and totally nOli-sc.:eptical nature,
even if he did write a book called The
Sceptical Chemist.
The noble Earl has done a service by
displaying before our very eyes the
scientist-philosopher who knows precisely
the limits of science and makes no effort
to go b!;yond them. Nor does he point the
finger of scorn ::!t anyone else. He must
know, as others know, that it is impcssible
to prove anything by negative evidence.
If you wish to prove that somcrbing is not
so you can do it only in logic-by proving
the existence of something that is so that
makes that first premise impossible. Thus,
vou cannot prove that any particular type
of flying object does not exist, and with
respect to my noble friend, the fact that
the Jodrell Bank telescope has not seen
something not only does not prove, but
is not even particularly good evidence,
that it was not there. I am prepared to
accept, if told, that the Jodrell Bank
telescope has been operating on a fre-
quency suited to the observation of
UFOs of one kind or another· fof the
last 30 years, but, until I am told that, I
shall be sceptical in that matter.
Lord HEWLETT: Let me be quite
clear about this, my Lords. I did not
say other than that Jodrell Bank had made
l


1305
many tb
able ade
natural p
TheE
thought
my Lor
has not
able. B
an argu
exist.
thing ca
friend d
about h
possible
degree o
I rem
Lords,
in the
in this
1886.
motor-b
pens, s
Messrs.
wereju.
on tot
eight y
kinsmar
of the •
lived in
having
under s
·This
of rna
of us,
been·
indeed
those
imposs
perha
argum
wish t
_may b
is no
produ
the n
tioned
'· ' ' .
• t

i1l! fo-
:'!r<:le•
:·;'ortcd,
'ld it i )
:: ·
Lords
;d they
t. \\·hen
·;c\'c he
:lers-
:·'

£reat
10 be
as on
i have
iil my
called
·(Jcie:tv
i if he
en or-
found
rained
rm as
would
·most
ature,
j The
by
the
ciseiy
effort
1t the
must
;;sible
en\e.
s not
l\'ing
that
1
'hus,
type
with
that
seen
but
.once,
d lo
lank
fre-
of
the
<t, I
uite
not
ade·
' !.. . ... - , ___ ''
1305 Unidemified [ 18 JANUARY 1979 ] Flying Objects 1306
1
many thousands of sightings but had been I be purely terrestrial. · I doubt if· it is
able adt·quately to explain them away as 1 angels. · But I believe that, for the clearing
natural from our own unin-rse. · t>p of mystery, for the removal of
The Earl of CORK and ORRERY: I
thought that I had my noble friend right,
my Lords; in other words, the telescope
has not seen anything that was inexpiic-
ab!e. But I do not think that that is really
an argument that something does not
exist. The is: what kind of
thing c::n it be'? I hope that my :r;oble
friend docs r:ot think that I am going on
about him-I no Jonzer am. How is it
possible to maintain more than a certain
degree of doubt in 1979?
I remember, as may some other noble
Lords, one or two of whom may be present
in the Chamber, my predecessor who sat
in this Hous.::. He was born in the year
1886. When he was born there were no
moto·r-bicydes or gramophones, fountain
pens, safety razors or electric trains.
Messrs. Daimler and Benz in Germany
were just putting the first petrol-driven car
on to the road, and Einstein, I think, was
eight years old. !v1y noble and gallant
kinsman, when he finally left the active list
of the Navy at a very advanced age, had
lived into the age of the nuclear submarine,
having hegun his first sea-going voyage
under sail. That was the band of progress
represented technologica!ly in the lifetime
of one serving naval officer. What would
he have said had he been tc>ld that in my
Iieftime-and I am not even all that near
the end of it, either-! should see men on
the moon; or computer tect:nology carried
to the pitch that it has reached; or that
there would be such' an outbreak of
wisdom foliowing Einstein and men like
Schrodinger, Heisenberg and others; or
the astonishing ascent of knowledge into
the atomic world?
doubt, for even the eliminating of some of
the dangers which may er.ist and to which
the right reverend Prelate referred, some
kind of an open inquiry ought to be set up.
I
I am rather inclined to agree with the
noble Lord-I think that it was the noble
Lord, Lord Kings Norton-who said that
I probably it should not b•!. an intra-
1
governmental inquiry. I think it should
be somctin' , 'ther more open than that,
but it ough. J lake place. If a group is
set up within this House, as suggested by
the noble Earl himself,. that would be
excellent. I should myelf be entirely in
fav0nr of it. In any case, let us get this
matter cleared up and into the open, and
by all means Jet us take it seriously,
bec:au;,e this is a serious subject. Far too
many people are taking it seriously for it
not to be a serious subject.
Finally, I wish to voice my most
sincere congratulations to . my noble
friend who made his maiden speech this
afternoon. It is very impertinent of me
to congratulte him upon it, but I should
like to say how much I enjoyed it. I have
no.t yet said anything complimentary about
the noble Earl who initiated the debate.
I have left this to the end on purpose
because I think it may not be entirely
realised what a service he has done.
This is the first such debatt that has
occurred in any societ)' such as this par-
ticular one; and this society, by which I
mean this noble House of P;;rliament, is
probably the only legislative assembly in
the world in which it could happen. l
hope that it will have repercussions which
will spread far beyond this Chamber.
What the outcome will be I do not
know, but, in initiating the ripples which
I hope will spread all over the surface of
the mill-pond, the noble Earl has done a
most valuable service.
· · This has all happened in the lifetime
of many of us, and yet we sit here; some
of us, and say that marvels which have
been ·postulated by some, and which
indeed are less in magnitude than most of 10.10 p.m.
those would have been to my uncle, are Lord STRABOLGI: My I
impossible. We are not all saying that- should like to join with the noble Earl,
perhaps nobody is saying that-but the Lord Cork· and Orrery, in saying how
argument is quite untenable. I have no grateful we are to the nobie Eari. Lord
wish to express any view on what a UFO Clancarty, for initiating this debate on
may be. What I wish to say is that there UFOs. Of course, the subject has been
is no knowing what it is not. It may be a of considerable interest in this country,
product of some kind of sign language, as and I hope our discussions, which, as the
the noble Earl, Lord Kimberley, men- I noble Earl rightly said, have been the
tioned.' It may "be mechanical. It may first that we haTe had-- in your Lordships'
"f"" ...... • •- '"'C"T•,..,._,, ...... ..,,_..,,,."1-".,._. __ , .........,"'-''-:' • • .. • • • • • .... , .... '' \" • • • • • • ',,,,,,.,
.:...;,
.... :..
:
,.
·•
,
1307
Unidmtified
[LORDS]
F/yi"!J Obfe('fS
· {Lord Strabolgi.J .. I or more, to no apparent purpose? There
House, will help to increase public under- s·eem to be internal inconsistencies in the
standing. But before J reply in detail to 1 idea. To p!lt it simp!:/, if these alleged
the debate---and l think it llas been a 1 aliens prefer to keep out of the way, the
·most intcrc.sting: one--- 1 should like to /, number of sightings would surely
join with my noble friend Lord Davies of be only a tiny portion of the actual UFO
Leek in congratulating the noble Viscount. I movements, which would run into many
Lord Oxfuird, on l1is maiden speech. / millions. If they do not prefer to pass
We were very glad to hear from him. if I unnoticed, we could surely expect un-
I may say so, and I hope we shall hear I mistakeable appearances.
1308
fro,m h;m many other occ";?"'· ' Why have they never tded to communi-
! • • be to so .ue. of the dcta•l cate "; th us? \Vhv hos there been no
of Ius later, but at thos I ev;dence on cad;o Or attempts at com-
should I.ke to offer hm, my Mrm"'t munkaHon? And would not such a
congratulations. 1 •
arge number oJ movements be picked
up by our defence radar system? Why
has not a shgle artefact been found?
Assuming that each 'isit docs not repre-
sent a journey from a dist<Jnt star, where
are these alien space craft supposed to be
hiding? Now that the idea of such bases
on the moon or on another planet in our
solar system is barely tenable, ufologists
have had to claim that the aliens are
based in the of the sea or in a
great hole in the earth, or even that they
come from invisible universes and other
space-time continua. Anyone who accepts
the hypothesis of large numbers of alien
visitations seems forced towards explana-
tions that are ever more fantastic, and
incapable of either proof or disproof.
There are undoubtedly many strange
phenomena in the skies, and it can be
readily accepted that most UFO reports
are made by calm and responsible people. ;
Ho\\·ever, there are generaily straight-
forward explanations to account for the
phenomena, as J think was s:1id by the
·noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, speaking 1
for the Opposition-and r must say that !
I welcomed his constructi,:e speech. There /
is nothing to convince the- Government /
that there has ever been a single visit by .
an alien space craft, let alone the numbers /
of visits which the noble Earl, Lord !
Clancarty, claims are increasing all the /
time. As has been said tcday, we live in /
a huge universe. I find as awe-inspiring 1
as Pascal did the contemplation of infinite
1
1
As I have s<!id, there really are many
space. There a<c some IOiJ,OOO mi!Hon / rcmackablc to see ;., the sky: and
st"'s ;, our galaxy alone, wh;ch ;t would I most UFO repons rda:e to e.ctual
yea':' to «oss at \he , ph'"""''"" ceponed hv ""s;ble people.
o Ig · · eyono our G\vn ga axy, i T):Jt my Lor·ls let ·us cons'd' t
1
distances become even more daunting. 1. · • · ' • ' ,
1
cr .1e
T
• 1· 1 t l ..1
1
· k 1 phenomena .themselves-and the noble ne 1g 1 year, as your or_,, 11ps ·now, , r· .
1
I d T. • . · , i
· • t 6 'll' 'll' ·1 Tl 1 -Or,. Jor Ietgai ne, some
1s aoou m1 1011 nu IOn 011 es. 1e 1 f tl . F ·c f d b ·
Andromeda <•alaxv is over 2 million light I
0
· uge quanti It'S o space e ns
"' - . . ' enter our atmosphere, and are often seen
years away. and that 1s 111 our own local / t . d fi ··h 11 . b.· • t ·1 t
croup of "alaxies! There are. of course I as me eors, an
11
c ·a, s · 11 tgn P ane s
rm;'
5
as well. · · and even the or stars have
g P ! reported as UFOs, 111 unusual atmosphenc
The evidence suggests that there is no I conditions, as tl1c noble Lord, Lord
intelligent life on the other planets of I Hewlett, said; there are tricks of light on
our own solar system, as tl1e noble Vis- cloud, and pa.rticular cloud structures;
count said. Tl1ere are, of course, different there is Aurora Borealis. St. Elmo's Fire
views about whether there might be life and ball lightning wl1ich was referred to
elsc\vhcrc in the universe, but certainly by the noble Earl. Lord Halsbury, which
there is no serious positive evidence to has been kno\1 n to drift along telephone
show that there is. If there were an /' or power lines. There are some 5,000
advanced civilisation elsewhere in the man-made objects in orbit, satellites and
universe, as my noble friend Lord Davies ! debris, some of which can be seen by the
of Leek supposed, \Vith the technology / naked eye, some through binoculars. A" bout
to. traverse these colossal distances, there 1 600 such man ·made objects re-enter
are many questions to be anf.wered. \Vhat I the atmosphere every year, as the nol:-le
is the point of this alleged huge number Lord, Lord Hewlett, reminded us. The
of visits to our planet, over three decades i quantity is far than natural space
·i309 [}
debris, but, my
be astoni!'.hir.g.
Last Apr!i
received rcpon
re-entering acr
Most reports \
of an
•· ... oval thing..,;
for a while th.:n
]vf y Lords, ,,.c
not a UFO, but
and place as k,
i'>fany report
unusual cond1
One recent UF
on local radi
cannot prove t
we do know th
on a low-flyin
spot at the
course as the·
li"hts have led
. I'
distant a1rcra !
I have seen
aircraft, short
the sun after dt
aircraft. Ot
meteorological
Joqical Office
balloons evc!'y
in diameter am
be lit by the su
organisations,
balloono;.
logical sea•chli
beam itself can
of lirrht in th·
ba!lo7)ns a:1d k
reported as UF
car headii;'ht:;
and airborne d
All these !-
interpreted by t
particularly
briefly and Ill
ditions. This
natural explan·
tortions of !ig1
l
as to be barely r
I am told th:::t tl
the I 947 sighti.
the noble Ear
mirage effcd.
Phenornc·na
suspect. Then:
v.·ithin the
: __
?' 'There
the
I the.J:eged
1f the :·"iiY, the
woe \.rely
'ie actu<.... oJFO
int0 manv
nrefer to pass ·
'y expect un-
i to communi-
''cre been no
·1pts at com-
not such a
ts be picked
stem? Whv
been found?
not rcprc-
t star, where
Jposcd to be
,f such bases
:Janet in our
:, ufologists
aliens are
;ea or in a
n that thev
and
accepts
:rs of alien
i.s explana-
tastic, and
:lisproof.
are many
sky; and
to actual
le people.
sider the
he noble
1ed some
:tee debris
,ften S(>en
t planets
ave been
1ospl1eric
d, Lord
'light on
:·uctures;
w's Fire
erred to
•', which
lephone
e 5,000
:tes and
. by tJ1e
. About
"C-enter
noble
·· The
space
1309
Unkhwtified
[ 18 JANUARY 1979]
Flying Objects
1310
debris, hut, my Lords, the phenomena can
be astonishing.
illusions to 'vhich the noble Earl Lord
Halsbury referred. One scientist, whose
task inciudes watchinsr satellites, describes
how, when observing stars near moving
douds, he fincis it difdcult to escape the
Last April the Ministry of Deti.:nce
received reports of a large piece of debris
re-entering aciOss :he South of England.
Most reports were factual, but one spoke
of an
1 illusion that the stars an: flying past
I stationary clouds. The nobk Earl, Lord
! Halsbury, referred to the green flash.
! I used to see it myself in Alexandria when
i on leave. It was one of our
•• ... oval thing with a white cockpit which bvercd
for a while then shot off at great speed ·•.
My Lords. we .:annot pro\e that this was
not a UFO. but it occurred the same time
1
and place as known re-entry of debris.
pastimes to sit on the prom:;nadc and
\Vatch it go down over tlw sea.
Many reports relate to aircraft seen in My in 1968, the United States
unusual conditions at unusual agglcs. Air Force commissioned the
One recent UFO was confidently reported of Coloradl) to C3.rry out an independent
on local radio. Again, my Lords, we study into UFO phenomena. Their
cannot prove that it was not a UFO, but report, which was published in 1969, was
we do know that an RAF Vulcan bomber very substantial and detailed and it
on a low-flying mission passed the same some 50 examples of such
spot at the same time and on the same phenomena, but added that it was impos-
course as the reported UFO. Aircraft siblc and potentially misleading to try to
lights have led to UFO reports; as ha\e tabulate all of the possible causes of
distant aircraft with landing lights on-- UFO perception: there are simply too
I have seen them mvself-flarcs from many. The report's main <.:onclusion was,
aircraft, short condensation trails lit by and I quote:
the sun after dusk and light reflected from ··Nothing ha> come from the study of UFOs
aircraft. Other phenomena include in the p:m 21 ycllrs that ha; added to
meteorological balloons. The Meteoro- knowledge.,_
logical Oftlce alone releases 50 such The findings of this report were cndors.:d
balloons every day, which expand to 40ft. by a panel of tb;;: National Academy of
in diameter and rise to 100,000 ft. and can Sciences.
be lit by the sun after dark. lViany other There really are tens of thousands of
organisations. such as universities, use strange things- to he seen. It is the custom
balloons, some much larger. Meteoro- to call such :-hcnomena '' UFOs ", and
logical searchJiglJts shine on clouds: the to transpose t'nis easily into H alien space
beam itself cannN be se;;:n; only a point
1
craft". Often the apptarancc is too
of light in the sky. There arc hot air, : fleeting and description too imprecise
balloons kitt.'s: even birds have bten for a particuiar cause to be attributed.
reported as UFOs; lights on distant towers; What we can say is that there is a great
car headlights on distant hills; dust devils; variety of plain explanations. There is
and airborne debris carried by the wind. no need, I suggest, for the far-fetched
hypothesis of alien space craft.
All these phenomena can be mis-
interpreted by the most sensible observers,
particularly when seen unexpectedly and
briefly and in unusual atmospheric con-
ditions. This is what opponents of the
natural explanations forget. With dis-
. tortions of light, and mirages, the most
commonplace things can be so changed
as to be barely recognisable. For instance.
I am told that the US Air Force attributed
the 1947 sighting by Arnold described by
- the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, to a
mirage effect.
Phenomena seen through glass are
suspect. There arc phenomena generated
within the eyeball and there are optical
To genuine' sightings we must, however,
add hallucinations: the excited tales of
the gullible: and the embellishments of
the born There ·arc also in-
dications tlwt ufologists accept reports
of UFOs somewhat uncritically. The
noble Enrl, Lord Clancarty, referred to
a papyrus found among the papers of a
Professor Tulli recording Hying saucers
during the reign of Thutmose III. The
Colarado Report, which I mentioned ear-
lier, inquired in!o this story. The alleged
papyrus could not be traced, but internal
eYidence in the trans.l<!tion suggested a
fake; inquiries with the Vatican Museum
' ·-. •· ,·'-- • ....., ... •. ,. •·• • . .., ... , . .,.,.,•... ,__..__ •· 'r-· , . ,. -··· •·
... , ·• ., .•.. , ... ·r,
;•
-....:..- ____,_
1311
.. . Unidentified
[LORDS]
Flying Objects
l312
. [Lord Strabolgi. J . ·
also suggested that Tulli, amateur
Egyptologist, had been taken m by a fake.
Earl suggested that M. Galley had said
that UFOs were real but that he, the
Minister, did not know where they came
l
from. I have read the transcript of M.
·There is a category of UFO cases
which are difficult to explain because the
description is too vague or the evidence
too remote, coupled perhaps. with a
coincidence of different phenomena and
with exceptional conditions. If one accepts
that there are natual explanations that
could account for most sightings, it is. an
enormous and irrational jump to claim
that the residue of difficult cases constitute
alien· space craft when there is
evidence that they do constitute ahen
space craft.
I· should mention the famous UFO
reported over the United Kingdom
December 1978, on New Year's Eve m
fact. This was the one probably seen by
the noble Lord, Lord Gainford, to which
he referred. The phenomenon was prob-
ably the re-entry of a launcher associated
with the Russian space satellite COSMOS
1068 launched on 26th December. Of
over' 100 reports reaching the Ministry of
Defence nearly all were factual and
with the re-entry of satellite
debris.
The recent sightings in New Zealand
referred to by the noble Lord, Lord
Kin2s Norton, attracted· · worldwide
publicity, and we understand that lhe
New Zealand Government may make an
announcement when the facts have been
assembled and appraised. Preliminary
advice from our High Commission .in
New Zealand shO\VS confident expectation
that the sightings wiil prove to be due to
natural phenomena, as I think the noble
Lord, Lord Trefgarne, and the noble
Earl, Lord Halsbury, implied.
Mv Lords . the noble Earl who initiated
this 'referred to the attitude of
Galley's broadcast and I also took the
trouble to check it in the original French.
The essence of what the :tvlinister said
was that the phenomena were genuine and
were reported by responsible people, but
that there \Vere aspects that were difficult
to explain. Nov.here did the Minister say
that UFOs were real in the sense that they
represent alien spacecraft, as suggested by
the noble Lord, Lord Rankeillour.
· The noble Earl, Lord Kimberley, also
said that these had been seen by astronauts.
These reports by astronauts were examined
in the Colorado Study. The atron.auts
were required, of course, to report any-
thing unusual perceived on their missions;
and indeed many strange phenomena were
noted. All the phenomena except three
were explained. There was nothing at all
to suggest that the unexplained sig:hti.ags
were alien spacecraft, and the limited
visibility from the small and smeared
windows of a spacecraft did not make visual
observation easy.
It has been suggested in this debate that
our Government are involved in au
alleged conspiracy of silence. I can
assure your Lordships that the Govern-
ment are not engaged in any such con-
spiracy. In view of what the noble Lord,
Lord Gainford, said, I must emphasise
that the Ministry of Defence examines
any UFO reports received to establish
whether they reveal anything of defence
interest but nothing in the reports
has ever given cause to believe
that they represent alien spacecraft.
There is nothing to have a conspiracy
of silence about. What is more, a visitor
from outer space would be one of the
great events in history. It wot:Id certainly
be an event of stupendous Importance,
but I hesitate to say the greatest event of
all in· the presence of my old friend the
right · reverend prel.ate the Bish.op of
Norwich, whose movmg speech we listened
to with much interest.
· other Governments to UFOs. It is not for
me to speak in this House for other
Governments. I have however already
made mention of the United States study
in 1968 and I understand that nothing has
happened since. that. to cause
United States authonlles to change the1r
vie\vs or to warrant further official
investigations of UFOs.
'
. . The noble Earl also referred to an
intervie•_v which the then French Minister
of Defence, M. Robert Galley gave in
1974 on the subject of UFOs. The noble
As the noble Earl, Lord Halsbury,
said scientists are rightly inquisitive
people. If there was anything in the
stories of UFOs, we would expect the
scientific community ns a v,;hole to be
devoting much offort to studying or to
making contact with the: supposed aliens;
1313
but the id,:a
by this and
I suggest, tcJ
Then the
implied tl.c.
cover-up. .a
security ban.
ask to see tl
files they ar
rcmnin conf
mundane r'
contain volt.
people, an1
identity of
that th6 file
the rules lai
Acts, passe
present pre<
have dapse1
cular corres!
the Mini:.tr
1962.
The no1
mentioned
government
l.Jnited Na
of Grenada
and propos;
decision
Assembiy
states " to
national 1
S<:cretary-C
Secretary-(
mit the G
relcva:1t rcJ
reaceful l
not an int
sense tl:at I
is seekillg,
Grenada,
countries,
internati()n
Lord K
the word\'
Lord Sl
note of wt
it has bce1
that Her
set up a
the noble
noble Lon
ftom the f
Parties, di,
certainly
not consic
i'Or tl:e C)
such a stu
. ... ·
' / ··- ' . ..
l • j:w ·,iY'
\l2 ' ' 1313 Unidcr.ti/iPd [ 18 JANUARY 1979 J H;-'ing Objects 1314
.id e but the idea of a conspiracy of silence I repeat that I am grateful to the noble
;;.e by this and othe.r Governmer,ts beiongs, Earl, Lord Clancarty, for the
.;e '\ 1 suggcc.t, to the world of .i:i.mcs Bond. subject of UFOs, and I am pa.rtic.u!ar!y
.1. ' Then the r:ob!e Earl, Lord Kimberkv• grateful to him for infcrming me in
:e implit:d that there was some kind of ::Jdvancc of the points WhiGh h.e I)rOposed
:l. cover-up. There is no cover-un and no to make to your Lordships. However
• security ban: It is true that wl1en peopie from ai} I haye said, I am sure that YO'J!:
d ask to see the Ministry of Defence UFO LordshJps will agree th<U there is no
files they are told that the papers must reason for my right honourable friend
,.
remain confidential, but there is a very the Secretary of State for Defence t•1 make
for tha\. The fllcs a broa?ca_:;t interview about UFOs, :ts
contain voluminous correspondence from the r:arl, Lord suggested.
people, and we cannot divu!oe the As ror tellmg the pubhc the truth about
identity of ihe correspondents. It cfo!lows UFOs, the truth is simple. There really
that the files must remain closed under arc many strange phenomena in the sky
the rules laid do\Vn in the Public Record and these arc invariably reported
Acts, passed by Parliament, which at rational people. But· there is a wide
present disclosure until 30 years range of natural explanations to account
have elapsed smce the date of the parti- for such phenomena. There is nothinrr
cular correspondence. The earliest reports to suggest to Her 1vfajesty's Government
the Ministry of Defence hold are dated that such phenomena are alien space
1962. craft.
The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty,
mentioned the possibility of an intra-
governmental study of UFOs. At the
United Nations recently, representatives
of Grenada made statements about UFOs
and propo£als for a. study. A compromise
decision was taken, wherein the General
Assembly invited " interested member
states " to co-ordinate research " on a
national level " and to inform the
Secretary-General of their findings. The
Secretary-General was requested to trans-
mit the Grenadan statements and other
rclev2.nt reports to the Committee on the
' Peaceful Uses of Outer Space. This is
; not an inter-governmental study, in the
sense that the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty
is seeki:Jg, but he may be content that
Grenad1, and perhaps some other
countries, may be reporting in an
international forum.
Lord KINGS. NORTON: My Lords,
the word was" mtra ", not "inter".
Lord STRABOLGI: My Lords, I take
note of what the noble Lord said. Then
it has been suggested, too, in this debate
that Her Majesty's Government should
set up a study group. I am glad to say that
the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, and the
noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, both speaking
the .front Benches for the Opposition
d1d not support this proposal, and
Her Majesty's Government do
ppt co11s.ider that there is. any justification j
for the expenditure of public money 'on
such a study. · ·
Viscount My Lords.
!nay I ask a questwn? I did rise to ask
It when the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi
rose. I was going to ask it of the
Earl, Lord Halsbury, but I think it would
be more courteous to ask it of the noble
Lord, Lord Strabolgi. The subiect of this
debate is :" otjects ", and in expert
speech--w:th almost all of which I agreed
-of .the noble Ear_l, I:ord Halsbury, he
mcntwned that scientists, as scientists
are dealing oniy with materi<:l Gbjects:
l have to be careful here, as a non-:.;cientist
who minds his p's and q's, and who
knows a quasar a pulsar,
but 1s a black hole a matenal object?
Lord STRABOLGI: My I,ords, I
should not at all like to follow the noble
Viscount down that avenue. I do not
think that even scientists or
know. what black holes are. I may say
that, m a \Vay, I think it is a pity that the
noble Viscount did not take part in the
debate. ·· ·
10.34 p.m.
The Earl ofCLANCARTY: My Lords,
I should like to thank the noble Lord
Lord Strabolgi, for his assurances and
for the information which he has· given
us. I am sorry that we are not to be able
to. listen to, or see, his right honourable
fnend the Secretary of State for Defence
giving a television interview about UFos:
Th.ere are just one or two.· very small
pomts, · before I end this debate. Wr,;

'\

'
--;
1315
Writ/ell
[The Earl of Clancarty.J
:;_,·-·· ·-c ...... d·">-L.. . •..•....• .• ·• •

A11swer.s 1316 l 13 _ .. - _..-
riveted attention. I beg leave to with- l . Lord 'I)
[LORDS]
have talked about the umpteen light
years that some of these planets and stars
arc away from us. But we are looking
at it from our own standpoint, because we
started to fly only in 1903, when the
Wril!hl brothers took oir. Now we
have got Concorde, so we consider our-
sc·lves to be rather good. Hut we say
that we cannot go right out into space
because of ail this di\tance in light years.
Let us suppose, however, as . h.as been I
suggested,. that there are b!lhons of 1
planets with civilisations thousands of
1
vears old. Is it not possible that they
could come here, after all that rime,
almost instantaneously? It is just a
thought.
draw the Motion for Papers. ; am
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.
A propos of that, l should like to bring
to the attention of your Lordships a
famous scicutist and astronomer, our
own Sir Fred Hoyle. Some years ago
he wrote a book called Of ;\Ietz and
Galacies. He wrote a passage in that
book which I was allowed to quote in
one of mine. It read:
•· You are ail familiar with an ordinary telephone
directory. [f you wallt to speak to someone, you
look up his numJ:'c! you dial the appropriate
code. My -
this is Sir Fred Hoyle speaking-
.. is that a similar situaticn exists and has existed
for billions of)ears in the galaxy. My speculativn
is that an interchange of messages is going on on a
sc:tle all the time and that we arc as unaware
of it a pygmy in :he Airkan fore,ts is t<naware
of the radio that fbsh at the ,;peeJ of
light round the earth. My guess is that there
might be a million or more subscribers to the
galactic directory. Our problem is to get our
name into that directory ".
I think that noble Lords will agree that
there is a man of vision. Nothing is
impossible in this \Vorld or in this universe.
It is just that the seemingly impossible
takes a little tim•: to come about.
My Lords, WI.! have had an interesting
discussion this evening. I should like
to thank the reverend Prelate the
Bishop of Non\ic-h and all noble Lords
who have taken part in this debate for
their wonderful contributions. I should
also like to congratulate the noble
Viscount, Lord Oxfuird, upon his splendid
maiden speech. May I also thank all
other noble Lords for their rapt and
WRITTEN ANSWERS
"BRITISH NATIONALITY LAW:
DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE
C1ANGES"
Lord AVEBURY asked Her !>..fajesty's
Government: .
Whether they will publish the com-
ments whi::h the J io:ne Oflke has so far
received on the Green Paper British
Nationality Law: Discussio11 of Possible
Changes (Cmnd. 6795) which appeared
in April 1977 and 'Vhich invited com-
ments from the public and from
interested bodies •· as part of the process
of open government ·•.
The l\UNISTER of STATE, HOME
OFFICE (Lord Boston of Faversham):
So far nearly 250 persons or organisutions
have sent in comments on the Green
Paper. Understandably there is a •rood
deal of rep.:::tirion and Her Maj:Sty's
Government do not intend to publish all
of this material verbatim. It is open to
any of the authors of papers to publish
them and some ha vc done so at least in
substance. Her Majl.!sty's Government
will have in mind the possibility of
publishing in due a summary of all
comments received.
DISABLED PERSONS;
EMPLOYMENT QUOTA
DEFICJENCY
Lord V AIZEY asked Her Majesty's
Government:
What is the number and percentage
of 1irms failing to employ their quota
of disabled persons for each year since
1960.
Commissic
is as follo,
Year
1960
1961
*1962
*1963
1964
1965
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970
1971
1972
1973 ...
1974 ..
1975 ...
1976 ...
1977
1978
*In 1961
respect c
staff but <
than 500
a quota '
('
,_,
LAW:
BLE
\b.jcsty's
Ihc cum-
has so far
:r British
f Possible
appeared
ted com-
'Jd from
:e proce:;s
HOME
ersham):
nisntions
e Gr<"cn
:.1 !!ood
,J<'j(::-s!y's
>bl:sh all
open to
publish
k1st in
ernment
)iiity of
·ry of all
:ajesty's
cent age
- quota
>r !.ince
1317 Wri!!C/1
(18 JANUARY 1979)
1318
Lord WALLACE of COS LA NY: I I years 1962 and 1963 are therefore per-
am advised by the Services I cen_tages t;>ased on the number of firms
Commission that the required information i revtcwed _tn those years and not on all
is as follows:- 1 firms subJeCt to quota.
Y£·ar
1960
1961
1962
*1963
1964
Number of firms
l1'ith a quota
obligations nor
complying h'irh
3 per cent. quMa
at annual rcrie11·
Figure in
prerious
column as
0
: affirms
.
to quota
38·2
I
I
DlSARMA!v1ENT AND AR'\IS
CONTROL: UN RESOLUTIONS
Lord KENNET asked Her M;1jesty's
Government:
Whether they will publish in con-
venient form the initi::ttiv..:s takc:n by
Her Majesty's Government, whether
unilaterally or in association with other5,
and the Vl)tes they cast, 0n disarmament
and arms control at last
autumn's General Assembly.
1965
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970
24,974
2),340
15,389
14,399
29,271
31,038
31;G61
34,176
34,319
35,102

36,332
34,794
33,779
33,106
32,340
31,065
31,763
30,446
38·6
42·1
42·1
45·2
46·8
48·3
52·3
53·7
55·5
57·3
58·2
57·8
58·4
60·0
60·9
61·3
62·9
63·2
.,I Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS: The
Government's initiatives on resolutions on
arms control and disarmament will be
described in detail i:1 the Report on the
33rd Session of the United Nations
General Assembly, to be published as a
White Paper. A separate record will
shortly be made available to non-govern-
mental organisations with a special interest
in disarmament and will be placed in the
Library of the House.
-1971
1972
1973
1974
1975
1976
1977
1978
*In 1962 and I 963 a survey was made in
respect of all firms with more than 500
staO' but only a selection of firms with less
than 500 staff (but which nevertheless had
a quota obligations). The figures for the
House adjourned at twenty-
t\vo minutes before eleven
o'clock.
.lJ.CO.U V.J... ,._,..1. , ..... ..&..J... /
PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE
FOR DEFENCE FOR THE ROYAl,. AIR FORCE
AF I JW 562/77
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
MAlf\1 BUILDING WHITEHALL LONDON SW1A 2HB
Telephone 01-218 ---(D1rect Ddling)
01-218 9000 (Switchboard)
December 1977
to the letter which you sent to Lord
8th December with a letter from Mrll
Lancing, Sussex on the subject
I am afraid that I can give you no immediate guidance
on the form any investigation into flying saucers might
take as a result of the recent debate in the United Nations
Organisation. All I can suggest is that your constituent
should address his enquiries to the itself.
I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

London
SWlA OAA
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L l> { o<:; 6 [ ,_::; /3.
Refercncc .... .. Y ..... .... ." .. :.:!....!.)::• ..

.
M2
APS/US of S(RAF)
L. The Foreign Office might have given us some indication when they trans-
ferred these papers of the line they have taken a.t the United Nations Orgal1i-
sation. You will recall from the press reports that a debate on unidentified
flying objects has been held there recently at the vequest of the Prime
Minister of Grenada. However, we have tracked down a Mrllllllin the Energy,
Science and Space Department of FCO who tells us (and, I hope, will confirm
in writing) that a UN resolution calling for an investigation into UFOs has
been shelved indefinitely. The UK did not support the resolution, the view
being that such an investigation would bring the UN into disrepute. Matters
now rest, I believe, on the understanding that countries interested in a UFO
investigation should pool their resources.
2. Mr 1111 does not seem to be particularly interested in his constituent's
request - I suggest a reply as attached.
December 1977
.•
DRAFT
.. _;
1. I am replying to the letter which you sent on
8 December with a letter from of Sussex
on the subject of flying saucers.
2. I can give you no immediate guidance on the form any investigation into
flying saucers might take as a result of the recent debate in the United
Nations Organisaticn. All I can suggest is that your constituent should
address his enquiries to the Ox·ganisation itself.
c
····-·---- ····· ··-··--- ·----------------
·,
i
ft'iiNISTP.Y OF DEFENCE
Main BUild!ng Whitehall London SW1A2HB
. • 01
....... Esq., ·.
& Space Deptc
I!"oreign & Com.mom-;ealth Office
Do1ming st (East)
London SW 1 A 2AJ,
Dear Nr
Your reference
Our reference
D/S4(Air)8/3
Dato
1Lt1_ Deceuber 1977
We spoke earlier today about the United .
concerning investigation into Unidentified Flying Objects.
2. Since 1-re r.eed. to. advise our Hinister on this subject in
co:n...Ylection 1-Ti th a Parlia"D.entary Enquiry, I should be very gratef-ul
if you Hould confirm that my understanding of the si ttlation,. as
stated belov-r, i.s
· a .. The resolution has been shelved indefinately, a:."lL1 it
lias that countries interested in co-ordina·tine
should pool their resources. .
b. The UK did not support, nor 1-rish to be associated i·ri th
the resolution, it being considered that partioipation in
such an investigation could bring the United into
disrepute.
. ..
;
I
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TJN:;TED Natior.s' diplomats found his and pn:;p.)sed that Hl7S
lost for words in 01nother to be tr.e of the UFO.
,._,o··ld ·

Grenada's arr.bassacior, Ivir
... ' ..•• k . "' t fi UTN Friday said the UN shoL:Id take un
Thev hdd a en O•• on he rst • initiative.
c!ej;:.te on unidenttfied flying objects. .
1
1t w;:.s called by Sir Edward Gairy, But the debate endc<l in silence. The
o! the Caribbean island of down" to- earth diplomats who .
Gr"n::.da. _. . . . . 1 n-ormally deal ·with wars or
. , , ;ie. ;,·.si!;ts that ·yisit i J>pecchless.; . , , • , , · ; ; !!
.. . . :. ; _,
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--- ··· ··- ·- -·- ··-
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---·

AGOG-OVER
j
, ..
t
,.
UNOUFO's_
. By HENRY MILLER
. in New York .
· :\VI.ULE some members '
; dozed, others joked and
·still others did their best
to conceal their incredulity,
United Nations Special
· -Political . Committee for·
· mally took up the question
of unidentified flying·
· objects.
- They did s-o at the instigation
of S!i'r !Eric Ga<iry, Prime Min-
ister of Grenada, who has been·
campaiigning for two years to
prontote an official U.N. study on·
111e :issue.
He called it " the fulfilment
0-f my very high expectation "
and adde'Cl: •• The vrorld is look-
ing on.".
Al'tlllough the world b more ·
likely to consider that the 149-
nati'On ibodv bas more serious
matters with which to occupy ·
itself, the committee nonethe- ·
le·ss agreed to devote more
debate to othoe today. '
Sit" Eric, who Intersperses
·reli-gious thoughts into his mus-
ings on u J? opened \he
debate 'by saying: "A UiN.
:v-.111 not jnfringe on the
soverciguity of any nation. We
have the backing of many scien-
tists and I look • with
C'.lnn:Cence to the suipport of t_ he_
1
world's nations." -
I ·• •
• · . Carter Interest · { 1
President Carter has
said that he sav; a U .F 0 ,
and Si: Eric said he ha.d 'been '
encouraged by the President's
intetest in t!he subject.
Telling reporters r.tf own
experience 212 years ago, Sir
Eric said: "I Mw a UFO as.
I was <lriving home about
l(wo or three in t'he
It was '{ big a b:-illiant
Iig'ht, golden 'brig'ht, movh1g at
'3-pe.ed.'' )
TI1e (.:.renc;.da .deTEg:ttion dls-
tr'ibutrd io free.
tickets tl) a new frlu:. "Clme· ,
·- tha Third Kind."
wlJi':h deals wi t:.t lf F-i..S'S:
===--o==-==--=-=-
•·· --- .. ·--- --·--··· ., .
---- --
4>
1
'
-----.. --
- . ·- -- -
... . .
-- '.:. _INQlJIRY
CALL.AT U.N.
-.J>

.,l.,<-,)
. ''!"I' ... { ,,
Grenada has y.,ithdravm a
• resolution to set up a special
United Natior.al or
department to conduct
into flyin&
and related phenomena.
Instead it -is circulating at the
UnHed Nations a draft resolu·
. titm called on the E'·ecretai y·
Dr to
. duct: a wlde-rangi.rg investiga-
tion i:lto ft.yil'g saucers, icc!uci·
ing il.n of t!Je
pro:.hlems. and st("m-
from any contJc: 'dth
llfe.-Reuter.
----=-·===
... ---- ----- ----· ------ --- ... __ ··-------- ---·
Foreign and Commonwealth .•• • _
L d ... \V 1 . \l.-\f. • .
. on on .:>. . • · .. ··. ·. ·.· .. , .
/
9 Dece\"ber 1977
This ·is just to let you know that I have
transferred your letter of B DeceMber enclosing
one from ur constituent, Mr
Lancina, Sussex, a ou flyina
saucers o e ni stry o·f De·fence. You will
be hearing from the appropriate Minister there
soon:
1'111 IIi?
House o ominons
London SW1A OAA
. ........ __ ....... --------- ·--·- . ; ... ..,.._-·· .......... ___ ... .:.-. ___ ______ _
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.. "
From:
HOUSE OF COMMONS
LONDON SWIA OAA
f)f /JLJJ-b;i/77
fh.CAd of Sq-
"'\.t..c
1
d 13 .
8th December, 1977 •
ni.ster of State,
foreign & Commonwealth Office,
Downing Street,
London, S.W.l,
Dear
. I havo received the enclosed
and I do_not know whether you would care
to give me any advice on it.
Yours sincerelyf
.
and signed in his
(Dictated by
absence).
1. Acv..nowledgcd

2. r-.1inister of Siate has/has not seen
3 ............................... DepCl[fment for
advfce and draft reply from . ·
••••••••• ,,. .......................................... &> ... .,
•••••• .- ______ ,c.,. ______ -- ------- - •• --- ---· -- ·- -- • • . • --- -------- ·- --- ---- •
. .
'
.•
'.Vestrr.ins t e r·,
London . .3''/IA OAA.
Dear Sir,
19 Ly rtl c :to3.d,
Lancinr;,
Sus::; ex.
24th
Recent itams in the press have indicated thnt the United Nations
to start official Frobe into Flying many people
consider such a project of a waste of time I am personally
that some steps are being taken to this phenomena on a serious .
and official basis.
The main reason for my writing to you is that in my opinion not
only should EOvernment bodies be involved ina project of this nature,but so
should a team of who would obviously be used to the various
problems involved. ·
Although I that no decisi6ns may have been made regarding
the ·form this project is take 1 feel it essential that ufolo8'ists are
involved in this venture.l should liki your op1n1on on this matter and what
you think the chances are of norr government bodies and individuals being
involved.
. . , . . -
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
PARLIAMC:NTARY IJNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE
FOR DEFENCE FOR THE ROYAL AIR FORCE
AF/JW 562/77
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
MAIN BUILDING WHITEHALL LONDON SW1A 2HB
Telephone 01-218-lrect Dl311ing)
01-218 9000 (Switchboard)
December 1977
letter which you sent to Lord
ember with a letter from Mr.
cing, Sussex on the subject
I am afraid that I can give you no immediate guidance
on the form any investigation into flying saugers might
take as a result of the recent debate in the'United Nations
All I can suggest is that your-constituent
should address his enquiries tp the itself.
I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.
MP
·"
·, ·.·
/t/l

\;0 J l-l D
-Act q2
.. -, '•'·. •';"'' .,. ',,' . mrrncc "I I \J w . ., . .sft*
""'!R-EDACTION ON ORiGINAL DOCUME' ............... ................. -: .. , ·'
.
Jg .
--- -
APS/US of S(RAF)
].,. The Foreign Office might have given us some indication when they trans-
ferred these paper,s of the line they have taken a.t the United Nations Organi-
sation.. You will recall from the p,ress reports that a debate on unidentified
flying objects has been held there recently at the request of the Prime
Minister of Grenada. However, we have tracked down a Mr-in -the Energy,
Science and Space Department of FCO who tells us (and, I hope, will confirm
in writing) that aUN resolution calling-for an investigation into UFOs has
been shelved indefinitely. The UK did not support the resoltttion, the view
being that such an investigation would bring the UN into disrepute. Matters
now rest, I believe, on the understanding that countries interested in a UFO
investigation should pool their resources.
2. not seem to be particularly interested in his constituent's
request a reply as attached.
December 1977
0
..
DRAFT
1. . I am replying to the letter which you sent
8 December with a letter from Hr-of
on the subject of flying saucers.
2. I can give y o ~ no immediate guidance on the form any investigation into
flying saucers might take as a result of the recent debate in the United
Nations Organisaticn. All I can suggest is that your constituent should
address his enquiries to the Ol·ganisation itself.
c
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
fViiNISTP.Y OF DEFENCE
Main BUilding Whitehall London SW1A2HB
. • 01
& Space Dept ..
Foreign & Office
Do1·ming St (East)
Your reference
ou·r reference
D/S4(Air)8/3
London SW 1 A 2AI,
Dato ·
tlti.. Deceuber 1977
DearNr-.
vie spoke earlier today about the United resoJ.ution .
concerning an investige.tion into Unidentified Flying Obj ec·t;s.
2. Since ue r.eed to adviss our !·iinister
con..."lection ui-'ch a Parlia'nentary Enq_uiry, I
if you \-tOuld confirm that my unclerstanding
stated below, is correct;-
thi
. . .1. •
on ... s sunJec ...
should be 7ery
of the situ.ation, as
a. The resolution has been .shel-ved indefina-'.;ely, a:'1(1 it
was that countries interested in co-ordinatine
should pool their resources. .
b. The UK did not support, nor 1-rish to be associated \•Ti th
the resolution, it being considered that partioipation in
such an investigation cou.ld bring the United into
disrepute.
Yours sincerely
N ON ORIGII\JAL D


'/_k U/( £I 11$ h
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1
f,TED Nations' diplomats found I his islor.d, and pn;p,Jsed that 1978
thnms::lvt::s lost for words in <mother ought to be the of the UFO.
, •r-··ld· Y"··'er•:lay Grct!ada's ambass;ulor, Mr
., 7nev

on the first UN fz:lda.J:' said the UN should lin
c!ebc.te on unidentified tl.vin.g objects. ImtJattve. ·
!t wus called by Sir Edward Gairy, But the debate ended in silence. ·The
J. ot the Caribbean isl. and of to- earth diplomats_ --,. w_h o
.Gr'"_;:::.da. . - . . / nQrmally deal with wars or !:;:;1!ne-
;,:·sists that a!i<!r.s .·cgularly. :Visit: were. r • ;: • ; • , . · <;' !S
... .-. ,, ,, . . ..... . . . . '. '"··

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-·16l''P
1
AGOG-OVER : -·
t
,.
UNOUFO's __ .
·. By HENRY MILLER
· . in New York .
JVI.IILE some members '
dozed, others joked and
·still others did their best
to conceal their incredulity,
United Nations Special
· Political . Committee for·
· mally took up the question· I
of unidentified flying· ·
· objects.
- · They did so at the instigation
of Sir iEric Ga4ry, Prime Min·
ister cf Grenada, who hu been·
campaiigning fer two years to ·
promote an offidal U.N. study on ·
the :issue.
He called it " the fulfilment
of my very high expectation "
and added: .. The world is look-
ing on.".
Al:tihi>ugh the worl'd 13 more ·
likely to cousider that the 149-
natioon ibo-Cy has sel'iom
matters with which to occupy ·
itself, the committee nont:tbe- ·
le·ss agreed to devote more
de'l:iate :to topi!c today. '
Sir Eric, who Intersperses
·religious thoughts into his mu:r
ings en U F O's, opened \he
debate by saying: "A U1N.
2!tudy :\\ill Mt jnfringe oa the
sovercignity of any nation. We
have tha backing of many scien-
tists and I look with
to the rupport of the
1
world's nations." · .
. 1 ···.;·
· · . · Carter interest / 1
· President Carter him3elf has
Mid that he o:tcP. saw a U :F 0,
and Si: Eric said •he lbi!d been'
encouraged by Pre3id.:nt's
intc..-est. in ':fue ·
Telling reporters of '!lis oWn
experience 21, vears ago. Sir
Eric said: "I a U F 0 as.
I was <lri\ing hom('. 11.t ab(mt
two or three in t'he mo:-niug.
It w;is big a b:illiant
nght, golde:t brig·t t, nlOYii:g__ at
trerue!tdt)US !
The <.:.rena:ia dis-
'to f:-ce .
t1CKets t<:' a n-'!w film. "Close·,
·- tha 'I'h1.:.:t Kind."
whi,:h deals V FtYs: __ ,
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f
I
Grenada has withdravm 1
' resolution to set up a speciai
United National agency or.
department to conduct
into !!yin& obj!."cts
and related pheno:nerra.
. !n.stead it .i:; circulating at the
United Nations a dl'aft resolu-
·tir>n calicd on thr Secretary·
Dr to ;:on-
. duct: a wlde·r.:u:gkg investiga.
tion i:tto flyi:;g saucers. ir:c!ud·
ing il.n of the
pr.:.hlems. and dangers st("rn·
from anr coatJc: with
.extm-terrestria! itfe.-Re!lter •.
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Foreign and Commonwealth 0
London S .W.l
ON ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT
9 1977
·is just to let you know that I have
transferred your letter of 8 ec er enclosing
o from stituent, Mr
ancina, Sussex, about flyino
. saucers to the ni stry o-F Defence. You wi 11
be hearing from the appropriate Minister there
soon:
House of
London SW1A OAA
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HOUSE OF COMMONS
LONDON SWIA OAA
8th December, 1977.
er o ,
foreign & Commonwealth Office,
Downing Street,
London, S.W.L,
Dear Lorti
. I have recs5. ved_ the enclosed
and I do_not know whether you would care
to give me advice on it.
·vaurs. sincerely,
( D i c t a ted by 1\1 r •
absence).
1. Acf-'Jlawiedged
and signed in his

2. Minister'of State hasfha? not seen
3 ............................... Depq_ftm_ent for
t.dvlce and draft reply from . ·
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]REDACTION ON ORIGINAL I

House of Commons,
'Nes trr.ins t e r·,
London. .3"'/IA OAA.
Dear Sir, .

24th I9'l7.
itams in the press have indicated that the Nations
·i.S to start .;_n official :t=robe into Flying Saucers.Alth::mg·h many people i'1ay
consider such a project of a waste of time I am personally glad
that some steps are being taken to investigate this phenomcn3 on a serious.
and official basis.
The main reason for my writing to you is that in my opinion not
only should covernment bodies be involved ina project of this nature,but so
should a team of who would obviously be used to the various
problems involved. ·
Although I that no dccisi6ns may have been made regarding
the ·form this project ·is take I feel it essential that ufologists are
involved in this venture.l should your opinion on this matter and what
you think the chances are of norr bodies and individuals being
involved.
, /"'l j !
i ;)vk.(_iA rc.<--c ""'' L:. . DS f 'y s I s M

(
' ,_,.,.\,/

1
.
..

(Miss J. Ferguson)
Parliamentary Clerk
218 6312
Draft reply and backgrollnd note opposite.
2. At the ba.:::!k of the folcl:er I have placed copies· of parallel
questions to the Home Office ·and Department of Education m:1d
Science. Ou.r. enquiries suggest that tbe Home Offj_ce reply may
be t6 the effect thit
1
no instructions are given
to the police, but they lvill no doubt investigate any un':tsual
occurrences··l-ri th their usual vigour/ Department of Education.
8.nd Science a::-e expected to say that they do h3.ve, contact "iY'i th
the French body. concerned, but not on.
3. A 'little detective vrork has suggested that the Earl has been
pronpted to these enquiries by his half-brother and heir; Eon
Brinsley JJe Poer Trench, 1·rho is a Vice the British
UE'O Research .'i.Ssociation. ·
25 1977
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,· ' ,·
THE EARL OF CLANCARTY
AN SYlER
MONDAY, 28TH NOVEI·ffiER 1977
'
To ask Her Majesty's Government
lrThether they are aware that in an
interview on France-Inter radio
on 21 February 1974 Nonsieur Robert
Galley, then French Ninister of
Defence, stated that his Ninistry
had set up a section in 1954 to
study accounts of
unidentified flying objects; and
vrhether our l•Iinistry of Defence
also has a section to investigate
these unidentified flying objects.
The Government has no record of a statement made in
February 1974 by the then French of Defence.
Our ltinistry of Defence has no specific organisation
engaged on the examination of reports of unidentified flying
objects; reports are examined by specialist staffs as part ·of
their normal duties to see if they contain any implications
for the defence of the United Kingdom. Investigations into
any scientific signifi-eance of phenomena T.vhich go beyond
defence interests are not carried out.by the Department.
BACKGROUND NOTE
MOD interests in UFO investigation is solely to establish
whether report have any bearing on defence. Investigations of
individual reports over a number of years have produced no
evidence that UFOs represent a threat to defence. As might be
expected, simple explanations have been found for most UFO
reports, the most common su1gle source of sightings being air-
craft or the aircraft seen under unusual meteorological
conditions. There is nothing to justify the expenditure of Defence
funds on setting up a section to investigate the reports.
2. We sometimes take the line: 'The MOD does not dismiss the
possibility that intelligent life could exist in outer space, but
reports that have reached the Department to date contain no
to support the view that these alleged phenomena are of
an extra-terrestrial origin'. However, that response is more likely
toilritate the dedicated enthusiasts than to convince them, so it is
customary to p1ay a dead bat.
3. During 1976, the statement said to have been made by the French
l•li.nister of Defence in 1974 lias brought to the Department's notic-e
in correspondence from the public. Attempts by to verify
the statement through the French Embassy were unsuccessful, since
it was virtually impossible to check back on a radio proeramme
broadcast tvTC years earlier. Neither was the British Air Attache's
staff in Paris able to produce information on the broadcast. It is
understood, ho"'trever, that the French Defence Ninistry also stud;y-
the implications and consider any scientific aspect that
may have a bearing on military affajrs. The reports are also con-
sidered by French scientists at a Government organisation knmm as
the Centre Nationale D'Etude 'spatial. The British Air Attache in
Paris was advised in 1976 that so far the Nilitary had found
nothing of an aggressive nature'in the sightings -nor have the
scientists been able to ~ x p l a i n the phenomena.
25 November 1977
Written
1347
include persons detained on 'com-
pletion of a sentence of imprisonment.
(4) No information is readily av -
able about the average time spen in
custody prior to deportation by pe ons
who had not been imprisoned or a
criminal offence.
(5) The longest period fo which
such a person in custody on 31st
October 1977 had been held nder the
1971 Act awaiting depor tion was
301 days.
Answers
1348
instructed to collect reports ·and in-
vestigate these unidentified flying
objects.
Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH:
The Government has no knowledge of
either the radio interview to which the
Question refers, or the role played by the
gendarmerie in investigating unidentified
flying objects. The police in t4is country
have not been asked to collect reports of,
or investigate, unidentified flying objects.
The jurisdiction and powers of the police
are normally confined to terrestrial activi-
ties, but I have every confidence that
should an occasion arise where there is
evidence that an unidentified flying object
has landed within a police area, the police
force concerned will investigate it with its
customary vigour. However, until there
is some clear indication that the frequency
of such occurrences is likely to impose a
significant burden on the police, I doubt
whether it would prove fruitful to issue
guidance on this subject.
(6) There is considera e variation
in the circumstances of hose held to
await deportation after s ving custodial
sentences. The only inf rmation readily
available relates to 4 people dis-
charged from Penton 1lle prison in the
first half of 1977: 1is shows that a
quarter of those recommended for
deportation spent ess than 21 days
in custody betwee the completion of
their sentence an their deportation; a
half spent 43 d 'S or less; and three-
quarters spent 6 days or less.
(7) Unconvi ed prisoners, including
those detain under the provision
of the 1971 r.Act, can apply to make
personal te phone calls within the
United Ki gdom for the following
" A STUDY OF EXMOOR "
Lord NORTHFIELD asked
Majesty's Government:
Whether they will make a State ent
on Lord Porchester's Report A tudy
purposes:
(a) ~ urgent domestic reasons,
(b) t clear up immediate business
proble s,
(c) o consult a solicitor,
(d to arrange bail securities,
(e to contact a national repre-
sen tive at an Embassy etc.
(8 A request for assistance for a
visit to a detainee would be considered
on he same basis as for a visit to a
re and prisoner.
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware that
Monsieur Robert Galley, the then
French Minister of Defence, in his
radio interview 0 1 ~ the France-Inter
radio on 21st February 1974 stated that
the gendarmerie are playing a very
largf part in ofi1cial investigations into
unidentified flying object sightings and
alle!!cd landin!!:>: and whether our
poli(;e have been likewise otfLcially
,.
of Exmoor.
Baroness STEDMAN: As t e House
was informed on 6th April la , my right
honourable friends the Seer ary of State
for the· Environment and t e Minister of
Agriculture, Fisheries and ood appointed
Lord Porchester to und take a study of
chan11es in the moor nd areas of the
Exmoor National Pa , because they felt
that the exceptional 1aracter of the moor
as a national he · age and the need to
balance and safeg ard the various interests
concerned calle or special and immediate
study.
My right nourable friends are greatly
indebted to ord Porchester for the fair
and expe tious way in which he has
conducte the Survey and prepared his
report. his was published yesterday and
copies re available in the Printed Paper
Office
T e report establishes that since 1947
the otal area of moorland in the National
P k has been reduced by some 12,000
Within the Cri1ical Amenity Area
.,
_/
Written [LORDS ] Answers 1454
lfviation Terminal has been brought into which go beyonddefence interests are not I
use for domestic flights only, and therefore carried out by the Department.
attendance by Customs and Immigration
staff will not be necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware that in an
interview on France-Inter radio on
21st February 1974 Monsieur Robert
Galley then French Minister of
stated that his Ministry had
set up a section in to .study eye-
witness accounts of urudenttfied flymg
objects; and whethet .our of
Defence also has a section to mvesttgate
these unidentified flying objects.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The
Government have no record of a state-
ment made in February 1974 by the then
French Minister of Defence.
Our Ministry of Defence has no specific
organisation engaged on the examination of
reports of unidentified flying objects;
reports are examined by specialist staffs as
part of their normal duties to see if they
contain any implications for the defence of
the United Kingdom. lnvestigatibns into
any scientific significance of phenomena
ROAD SIGNS
Lo DE . CLIFFORD asked Her
Majes 's Government:
Wh information the large yellow
backed road signs exhibiting black
triangles, diamonds, circles and squares
now proli rating in the West Midlands
meant to nvey to the motorist; and
whether the will be included in the new
Highway Co for everyone's informa-
tion.
Baroness STED AN: These new signs
mark routes for t ffic to . follow when
some emergency re uires a section of
motorway to be cl sed. They guide
drivers from the motor ay and back to it
beyond the point of clos e. Because the
signs are at present indivi ally authorised
for each route and have not yet been
prescribed in regulations fo general use,
they are not being include in the new
Highway Code; but they ha e received
press publicity and an explana ry leaflet
has been produced for distri tion to
drivers. I shall be sending the no le Lord
a copy of the leaflet and copies ha been
placed in the Library.
House adjourned ;:tt ten
minutes before eight o'cloc
. "','
1451 Television [ 1 DECEMBER 1977 ] and Radio
though of course if the BBC wish to
approach us on this matter sometime
next year we will be perfectly prepared
to listen to what they have to say.
I will, after what has arguably already
been an overlong speech, sum up.
I would repeat that we are glad to have
had this opportunity-! speak for myself
and, I am sure, for all who have partici-
pated in the debate-to pay tribute to the
valuable work which broadcasters un-
doubtedly play in our society. When I
was recently in the United States I was
struck by the very high esteem with which
programmes from this country were
regarded. These programmes, both from
the BBC and Independent Television, are
finding their way on to the networks and
public broadcasting stations in the United
States. Both the BBC and Independent
Television have offices in the United
States selling British programmes and in
1976 the total volume of overseas sales for
the BBC and IBA was over £18 million,
and despite the undoubted fact that a
substantial amount of foreign material is
shown on British television, we still have a
quite significant surplus on our balance of
payments as far as television is concerned,
which is a quite remarkable tribute to both
the BBC and Independent Television.
In the light of what my noble friend
Lord Vaizey said, I shall . avoid the
temptation to say we have the best tele-
vision in the world. My Swedish is
extremely poor, my German is non-existent
and I am a little rusty even in my Nor-
wegian, so I would certainly not make that
claim. Nevertheless, choosingrathermore
neutral language, I would say that our
programmes stand comparison with those
made anywhere else in the world. That is
not to say that we should be pleased with
everything that is produced. To be blunt,
that would be an absurdly complacent
view. Inevitably, there will be cases
from time to time where it is believed that
there have been lapses in taste and
sometimes in sensitivity, but it is for the
broadcasting authorities, not the Govern-
ment, to deal with those. A few such
alleged lapses have been mentioned this
afternoon and we have had them more than
touched on in the Press in recent months.
Nevertheless, we recognise how essential
is the function that the BBC and the
Independent Broadcasting Authority
perform at relatively modest cost to the
community.
There are many general benefits avaiiihle
to all listeners and a point men-
tioned by many noble Lorqs in the debate.
Apart from the dissemination of news and
information, the encouragement of the
arts and the promotion of education in all
its forms, there are, -as the· noble Lord,
Lord Winstanley, said, the special and
particUlar benefits conferred on the aged,
the infirm and the lonely, for whom ·life
. without the· broadcasting services would
indeed be a miserable existence. In the
Government's view, no formal inquiry is
needed to ensure that proper recognition
is given to the valuable work done by our
broadcasters. Nevertheless, this short de-
bate has at least enabled some of the more
positive achievements of the industry to
secure wider recognition.
Lord FERRIER: My Lords, before the
noble Lord sits down, I should like to
point out that I was looking forward to
hearing the Government's view on my
point about the broadcasting of infor-
mation about Parliament.
Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH: My
Lords, despite what has been, as I have
already indicated, an overlong speech,
it has been impossible to deal with every
point raised, but certainly what the noble
Lord refers to is an important matter, and
I will ensure that it is taken into account
during our discussion of the Annan
Report.
WRITTEN ANSWERS
CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION:
HEATHROW AIRPORT
Lord TREFGARNE asked Her
Majesty's Government:
How many Customs and Immigration
officials are presently employed at
Heathrow Airport and how many will
be needed to man the new General
Aviation Terminal there.
The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-
SECRETARY of STATE. DEPART-
MENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness
Birk): The numbers of Customs officers
and Immigration Service staff employed
at the Heathrow Airport passenger ter-
minals on 31st October 1977 were,
respectively, 392 and 509. The General
. . . . l . . - ·r.:.:
{Pi-
1453 Written.
[LORDS} Answers 1454
i
Aviation Tern;inal has been l•tought i.1t(. i which go beyond defence '"·e u•:·=-
1
.
us:e for flights only, ar.l l carried out by the Department.
attendance by Customs and ImmJgraticn
l>iail will not be
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS
The Ea::l of CLANCARTY ask:!d Her
Majesty's Governme11t:
Whether they arc th?.t in an
interview on Fnmce-Inter radio on
· 2h:t Fcbr;Jar; 1974 Monsie-:.1:: Robert
Galley. th.;n French. M!n!sier vf
Dcfen:::e, stated that hrs Mm1st!.J' had ,
set ur a s,;ction in 195:1-. to .st:rdy. C'fe- I
·.':itne-ss a:;ccunts of f:.yrnf!.
1
.
obiects · an.d whcthet our M1r;·stry ol.
_also a investigatt I
nmdentlfl.ed fi;mg objects. I
Lord WINTERBOTTO:M: The
have no record of a I
ment made in February 1974 by the then ,
1
1
1 no specific
cr;:;aniso:tirm engaged 0::1 th:! c;:ammation of
I rc;crts of anidenti11ed objects;
1
1
, reports examined by as
1'<'rt 0f their dt:tle;: t0 rt they
I
contain anv implications for the defence of
the U:1ited Kingdom. into
I any sci;;ntif,c significance of phenome:1a
ROAD SIGNS
Lord DE CLIFFORD a<;ked Her
M?jesty's Government:
V.fhat information the l&rgc yellow
backed road signs exhibiti!lg black
triangles, <lnd f,quarts
now pro!iferating in the \Vest Midhmds
meant to convev to the an:l
whetiler they wi1i be included in the new
Highway Code for everyone's informa-
tion.
Baroness STEDl'vfAN: These new signs
mark routes for traffic to follow when
scme err<ergency requires a section of
motorway to be dosed. They guide
drivers from the motorwav and to it
beyond the point of the
are at present individually attthor;scd
f0r each route and h:r:e not vei b::cn
prescribed in regulations for ger;er<1l use,
i.l!ey are not being included ii1 the new
Highway Code;. b'Jt tht>y have rcceiv•'d
press publicity and an explanatory leaflet
has been produced for distribution to
drivers. I shall be sending the noble Lord
a copy of the leaflet and ;opies have ccen
placed in the Lil:Hary.
House adjo:1rued :::t ten
minutes before eight o'dock.
,
[ 6 DECEMBER 1977 ]
-Answers
llitriels;• ..\ She -.has extended •·and ex-
best1possible way our whole
aid, and I should like it made
clear · that that is what we
like to give the noble Lord
from his article. He
this ·particular project the
,.,.,.,,....,n,.••"'" case was based on " less
motives ". In answer
to give one quotation
of my right honourable
· take into account human
Cambodia or Uganda,
Czechoslovakia or
for the support I
my two noble
and impressive
noble Lord,
.... ,J ..... powerful con-
that on the
must look
back on
project.
has
""'"'"'''t. .......... t to
WRITTEN ANSWERS
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS

3lhe Earl of CLANCARTY asked
Majes.:y's Government:
l. Whether they are aware that in
since 1st September 1977, .a
section for the study of unidentified
flying objects has been set up in the
National Centre for Space Studies in
l
Toulouse, under the direction of
· Monsieur Claude Poher, a distinguished
scientist, and that this body is sponsored
upon the French Ministry of Industry
· ':1 and Research; and whether there is a
· · l similar scientific organisation under
, 1 Government sponsorship in the United
· ' t Kingdom to study unidentified flying
objects, working closely with the French
, one. ·:.••i
The MINISTER of STATE,' DEPAR,T.;r
MENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCEf
(Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge): . Heri
Majesty's Government understand that a
study group called the Groupe d'Etudes ·
sur les Phenomenes Aerospatiales Non-;
Identifies (GEPAN) has been set up under·
the French Ministry of Industry, Com-
merce and Artisans at the National
Centre for Space Studies' in Toulouse.
The group has no formal links with the
United Kingdom, and we have no similar
scientific group to study unidentified
objects or phenomena.
LEGAL AID REFUSALS
L rd CHITNIS asked Her Majesty's
Gov rnment:
hether they will list in the Official
Rep rt the number of applications for
legal aid which have been refused for
each ear since 1970 and whether they
will c ssify this information according
to the following categories:
(a) ere the Supplementary Benefits
Co mission have determined the
app 'cant's disposable income at an
amo nt greater than the limit;
(b) wh e the Supplementary Benefits
Com ission have determined the
applic nt's disposable capital at
an am unt greater than the limit;
(c) where the proceedings to which
the ap ication related are not
proceedi s for which legal aid may
be given;
(d) where t e applicant has not
shown th he has reasonable
grounds fo taking, defending, or
being a part to the proceedings ;
(e) where it a ars unreasonable
that the appli ant should receive
legal aid in the articular circum-
stances of the ca .
The LORD CHAN LLOR: The
available information is se out below in
two tables. No informati is available
about category (c) and co ined figures
only are available for categori (a) and (b).
In England and Wales comb ed figures
only a_re available for .categories (d) and (e).
LOOSE NI1WTE

D/S4(Air)8/3
Q.:b..ief Librarian
In a recent House of Lords
Parliamentary Question on Unidentified
FJ.ying Objects the Earl of Clancarty
referred 1-1inistry of Defence to a book
"The Crack in the Universe" by l·T.Jean-Claude
Be>urrett ( unknovm) ..
2. . \{ould you please obtain a copy and
send it in i;he :first instance to S4(Air).
f 1.. December 1977
1599
Written [ 6 DECEMBER 19'77 ] Answers
countries. She has extended and objects, working closely with the French
panded in the best possible way our·whole one .
. approach to aid, and I should like it made The MINISTER of STATE, DEPART-
absolutely , clear that that is what w MENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE
meant.
I should like to give rd
another quotation from He
said that in this particular proj t the
Government's " less
elevated political motives". answer
to this I should like to give on quotation
from a recent article of my rig honourable
friend. It is this:
". . . we all need to take in account human
rights, whether it be Cam odia or Uganda,
Indonesia, Chile, or Bolivi, Czechoslovakia or
the Sovicl Union ".
I am most gratef for the support I
have received tonig from my two noble
.friends-indeed a werful and impressive
combination, an from the noble Lord,
Lord Avebury, : another powerful con-
tribution. I 1ink now that on the
question of a· for Bolivia we. must look
to the futur . We shall not go back on
our decisio about the tin mining project.
As I have aid, our offer of assistance has
been wei omed, and our commitment to
help wl, n we can find the right projects
is a fir one. The Government's reasons
for d ciding against the mining projects
are ood ones. . They are perfectly well
un erstood by the Bolivian Government,
a we look forward to mutually satis-
f ctory relations over new projects.
WRITTEN ANSWERS
UNiDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked
Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware that in
France, since 1st September 1977, a
section for th0 study of unidentified
flying objects has beer. set up in the
National Centre for Space Studies in
Toulouse, under the direction of
Monsieur Claude Poher, a distinguished
scientist, and that this body is sponsored
upon the French l\·1inistry of Industry
and Rtsearch; and whether there is a
similar scientific organisation under
Government sponsorship in the United
Kine:dom to study unidentified flying
(Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge): Her
Majesty's Government understand that a
study group called the Groupe d'Etudes
sur Ies Phenomenes Aerospatiales Non-
Identifies (GEPAN) has been set up under
the French Ministry of Industry, Com-
merce and Artisans at the National
Centre for Space Studies in Toulouse.
The group has no formal links with the
United Kingdom, and we have no similar
scieJ?.tific group to study unidentified
objects or phenomena.
LEGAL AID REFUSALS
Lord CHITNIS asked Her Majesty's
Government:
Whether they will list in the Official
Report the number of applications fo
legal aid which have been refused f r
each· year since I 970 and whether t ey
will classify this information acco ing
to the following categories:
(a) where the Supplementary enefits
Commission have deter · ed the
applicant's disposable inc me at an
amount greater than th limit;
(b) where the Suppleme ary Benefits
Commission have d termined the
applicant's dispos le capital at
an amount greater. than the limit;
(c) where the pro edings to which
the applicatio related are not
proceedings fo which legal aid may
be given;
(d) where th applicant has not
shown t t he has reasonable
grounds or taking, defending, or
being a party to the proceedings;
(e) wher it appears unreasonable
that he applicant should receive
leg aid in the particular circum-
st ces of the case.
The LORD CHANCELLOR: The
avail le information is set out below in
two tables. No information is available
ab ut category (c) and combined figures
o ly are available for categories (a) and (b).
I England and Wales combir.ed figures
only are available for categories (d) and (e) .
....__ ..,.,..._ .. .... ____ ,....,_........._..... .. --·----·--·---·-··

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fr \
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.. ....
.. ·.·- - .... -•. : ..••.•. : ... :: ....... ":
M.1
':. _ •. ·-•,1 .;.. ....

Lords question :forward8d for necessary action - draft
reply, b2..ckgrouncl note __
Ple.ase return to Roorn 6332_ by •• .I.Q; •• Q1;.,.
. c;e-...vu.ll· w '0 [-H "' .:_ f4-'"' h..:_ ./; ... .:,._
. J til q
Secretary of State's Office
c .
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. . .
. . • ·'•'

..... ·.
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. " ... -.'
. :: . . ····
. .... . _...
........
. \
(Miss J. Ferguson)
Parliamentary Clerk
218 6312
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PS/USofS(RAF)(Through DUS(Air)
As stated in the Background Note to the Earl of
Clancarty•s question on 1 December 1977 (file PQ 7343B
attached) a member of the public drew our attention to
this broadcast last year. Our enquiries in 1976 failed
to produce any first hand information on remarks ,,rhich
the French !·fi.nister of Defence might have made. We have
been unable to obtain a copy of M Jean-Claude Bournett•s
book, "The Crack in the Universe". S4(Air) have written
to the British Air Attache in Paris to obtain a transcript
and any other information which might be relevant, but
this is 'bound to take time.
2. I suggeHt the enclosed draft reply to the Earl of
Clancarty's question; the word 'official' is important,
becav.se it -vrould be unwise to become involved in discussions
based on biassed or selective The
Home Office agree with the text.
12 December 1977
T M P STEVENS
Hd S4(Air)
Z.lB 8245 7048 I•ID
ANSW"ER
(The Lord Winterbottom)
To ask Her Majesty's Government
whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers
to two recent Questions for Written
Answer (cols. 1347 and 1453), not
to draw the attention of the
of Defence and the Home Office to the
interview on France-Inter radio in
February 1974 of the then French
Minister of Defence M •. Robert Galley
about unidentified flying objects by
M. Jean-Claude Bourret which is
transcribed in his book "The Crack
in the Universe".
The Ministry of Defence are end£:avouring to obtain an
official transcript of the interview said to have taken
place on France-Inter radio in February 1974.
i
l
I
-· .-. ......... & .. - ... - ...... ... -- ..... - . I l ,.., • .. - • ..
, 1\-.
. , .. :
\.:. '
J A Peduzie, Esq,
Ministry of Defence,
S4 (Air),
Main :Building,
Whi tehe.ll,
LOIIDON.
S7i1 A 2HE
OBJECTS
-
· 3" --n,-· rl1- r;-,,.. l• .. . ..,.

.. ,.!.
- J.ot.,..._. ,.,1 .. 4 - .. • .J.-.-.v.:-:..\.JJ..w
75008 l;ARIS

3_ 0,.-
January,
ext:
Reference A:
P•
.._.
D/S4{Air)b/1 dated 13!h pece:!lber, 1?77.
PAR/106/9/AA dated 2na Janu2.ry, 1978. '--\.::
449
- .'li.J,.;;;,( .. r"
1. Reference A asked for certa!n information about French Ministrv
of Defence treatment of repor-cs from t.h3 public sbout of ··
untdenti fiE:d objects. In Ref::;:r-.:mce 3, I tc
a tr::mscr:i.gt o:· a ·i 974 broc;;dcast· on the subject.
2. The French authorities have now replied, and I enclcse the full
text Robert Galley's radio intervi2w on the subject.
3. The proc3uures sot up just :.:J.fter tho vmr for the an<llysis of
repo:-ct:?.d sight:i.ngs, .snc1 a.s noted -your files, reD:-:.in u::•.ch8Jl:-rec1 --
with cr:.e small exce:t,Jtion: the reports e:o;npiled O;'/ the Gend.ar..::Grie .
now go £-imt.:.l ta!":eously to the Centre Fat:;_onal d
1
Et.udes Spatiales (
ar:d t!le Defence try - to save time.
u.. The Ministry of Defence overall viewpoint on the subject ram'"'j ns
exactly as described in the Article in "Air Actus.1i tes" (Octcber 1976
by Colonel Alexis, a copy of was sent to you.
5. Fin2.11y, 8. l'P.Cent has r·;ee.n the introduction of 8_
small study e-roup, u::1.der the auspices of a:.;.d chaired by
Monsieur PaLer, called the

d'Etufs des
A
,_<l"\ .... ; -r , .... , .. ,Y" r1 ....... +. J .. .p; e' C"'" r.1.Lh 0 t ..... .... ; .. "' c-P f ;-:-. Y.1C OI"' t i i ·: f·.
t:'".,.. .v.::>!. ..... ..,.l.;.L.:::;".J.v . ..l .. ... ..L-'- v • -...... .. !.oJ J... .. _....__ .. _ _ _ .... -- ........... -"""";:-
arC not yet but the title seems to me to be self-explanatory.
Bnclc.sure.
I ,; I .... • ...... .."'
, W!'l!H M ROBERT GAtk'"'Y: FOR THE AR}1ED FORCES ON FRANCE-INTER -n
. 21 ll'EBRUARY AT 2030 HOURS

• Interviewer M & _. M. ;Galley
I- Minister, you have granted France-Inter an interview which will certainly
.
be significant because it is the first ·i;ime that a Minister for the Armed
Forces has agreed to speak about the proble: of UFOs. Do you have information
which allows you to answer the questions which the listeners are asking,
· information which we know nothing about?
MG- Well, I don't know about that, because I have spent a necessarily
. -
relatively limited time on that question, though it is a question which I
must say has interested me. But •••• and consequently I cannot knew
everything that has been said during your broadcasts which I know certain
people in the Armed Forces Ministry follow assiduously. What I <ieeply
believe is that we must adopt a strict, open attitude to these
phenomena. A certain amount of progress· has been til8.de in the human race by
ths fact that attempts have been made to explain the inexplicable. Well,
in air phenomena, these visual phenomena - I say no more - that are
grouped together under the term UFOs, it is certain that there are things
which are not understood and which are at present relatively unexplained. And.
I shall even say that there are things today which are unexplained or pool"ly
explained. In 1954 a section for considering and collecting evidence on the
appearance of UFOs was set up i.n the Armed Forces Ministry. I ran through a
certain number of statements and these statements developed up to 1970. Thera
are about 50. Amongst the first things found a report of a personal
observation by Lt Jean Demery of the 107th Arty Brigade (?B.A.) at Villacoublay,
dated 20 November 1953. There are reports by are some report
of observatious by pilots, by personnel who are air centre heads; a fair
amount of information the concentration of which was quite disturbing in 1954.
1
c
.
'
'IJd, consequently, I think that the attitude of mind whicr. must be adopted to
(these phenomena is a quite open attitude; that is, does not consist.
of an apriori negation, as oilr ancestors in previous centuriAs had to deny
many things which seem to us today to be perfectly elementary, whether· it be
piezo-electricity, static electricity, to take only those two, not to mention
a certain number of phenomena connected with biolc-gy. In fE:.ct, all these
scientific developments consist in the fact that at a moment it is
h\
seen thatAthe 50 years beforehand absolutely nothing was known or understood
of the reality of the phenomena.
I- Have there been cases in which fighter aircraft - Mirages for example
have followed UFOs in France?
MG- Well, in France, after examining all the reports, I don't ·i;hink I
think that we had a certain number of radar observations in the 50s which were
in Aquitaine. For 10 minutes·, a quite inexplicable and still
phenomenon. Other observations on tne screan could be explained by
jamming phenomena and therefore consequently they were explained. But there
are a small number left, but a small number which are quite unexplained..
Phenomena abroad are quite well known. There are phenomena in the US; there
is the Turin phenomenon and to reply very preci_sely to your question, the
number of statements by French military pilots these UFOs is relatively
small compared ·with what one finds abroad. But all the same there are some
on record.
i- Are you in with other military organisations,
"
Minister?
_-.
2
No. Since 1970 we have sent back to the Gli:PA all the statemen.ts and each
(
' there is statement something extraordinary happens, we continue to
)!19
send it to them both through the pilots and through the gendarmerie.. But the
Air Force considered, before 1970, that as there was, within the framework
of its Air Defence mission, danger, you see that it is not their mission
after all to study these !>henomena on the scientific level - we consider that
. that is tho role of. the National Centre for Space Studies (CNES) where people
Sltch as M Pohsr, are carrying out a study which seems to us to be quite
interesting to •. But it does not come within our province. ..
we have no direct contact, though, I repeat, we make a contribution. Every
something appears, we send it to specialist body which is working,
basically,on behalf of the nation.
I- However, Minister, unidentified space objects in French air space seems
to concern r.ationol dafence?
MG- Yes. that does concern national defence and I would say that that is
why we are fo:!.lowing question to try and see if any correlations can be
established. And I would say that, personally, I am rather interested in this
phenomena of the correlations which M Poher has between the
variations of the magnetic field and the passage of UFOs. There are a number
of relatively disturbing phenomena which may, one day, have an explanation
wldch is not an explanation of a specific flying object, which may be magnetic
phenomena. But for the moment, we are obliged to recognise that there is
something there which we do not understand. There is also the quite impressive
in visual observations - I shall not go into descriptions which your
listeners know, since many of them coincide - but the visual observations of
luminous which are sometimes spherical, sometimes avoid and
...
which are characterised by extraordinarily swift movements, all these are, I
..
say that in the Air Force, for tne moment, they have never seemed to
come directly under air defence.
.
I- If you were asked, for example, to oake a few of your radars. available to
a few scientists, or at least the observations made by the radar operators,
what would be your reply?
MG- Oh, I would reply that we have no reason not to inform air defence, if
there were anomalies on the of the elements which air defence does
not manage to explain everything, I think that air defence wo'ltld be bound to
these unusual or unorthodox observations to a scientific authority
which would be entrusted with them. That is what we do at the moment since I
have there all the reports of observations which could be, which come from the
Air Force, the gendarmerie, from all the.military authorities and we pnss them
on very directly.
I- Well., you have mentioned the Gendarmerie. France Inter listeners have
already heard many reports from gendarmes, offering the good faith of witnesses
when these witnesses state, not that they have seen unidentified luminous
phenomena in the sky which can always be interpreted as something
unsubstantial, but unknown by our natural science, but ouch more exact
phenomena, since there are landings with traces left in the ground. And the
gendarmes conclude them in favour of the good faith of the witnesses who state
they have seen, not only UFO sometimes, but little creatures.
MG- Ah, well, on this matter, I shall be a great deal more cautious. But I
must say that if your listeners could see the collection of reports from the
genda1'1Derie - Air Gendarmerie, mobile gendamex·ie, responsible for

territorial inq,lir:ies - which have been passed on to the National Centre for
4
I
through us - all the documents that we had - it is actually
.te disturbing. I think that the gendarmes .are serious people and that when
the gendarmes make a report, they do not do it and that there
were only one or two, you could say that the gendarmes' sincerity was suspect.
But I must say that there are a great number of gendarmes' reports which are
very varied. It should be said that when they report incidents, if you like,
which have been reported to them, few of them, but all the same some, report
phenomena at ground level, you know, changes in the ground. All thiE, if you
like, is still quite fragmented. I think, to conclude on this matter, that
we must adopt an extremely open attitude of mind to all this, not put into
doubt the sincerity of people, some of whom are obviously sincere, but at the
moment it is really far too soon to draw the least conclusion.
Armed Forces Public Relations Information Service
1st Division
Pario 21 February 1974
Summary - Analysis Office
Analysis Sheet of the Spoken Press Interview
Station: France Inter
Time
.
.
.
.
21 February 1974
1300 hours
Subject: Interview with M Galley on UFOs.
Jean-claude Bourret, for the first time a member of the government is breaking
the wall of silence, a silence which politic1ans assume when the subject
under discussion is UFOs, in other words, flying saucers:
M Robert Galley
Actually the Minister responsible for National Defence, that is, a man who
knows the problems of air defence since UfOs concern air defence first of all,
5
,P' ,.,-
/' ',
' '
••
bas agreed to talk and this is in fact·_ the first time that a Minister for
Armed Forces bas spoken on this problem of We shall broadcast the
whole of this interview this evening at 2030 hours in the. programme
"No Panic". But in this 1300 hours ne ... rs, we wnted to give you a very short
from this interview and you will see now, if M Galley speaks, it is
not to "knock down" the problem of UFOs.
M Robert Galley:
"!t is true that there are things which are not understood and which are at
present relatively unexplained, and I would even say that it is irrefutable
that there are things today which are unexplained or poorly explained. In 1954
a section for considering and collecting evidence on these of
UFOs was set up in the Armed. Forces Ministry. I have run through a certain
number of statements there and these statements developed up to 1970. There
are about 50.
11
Jean•Clat.de Bourret
"Minister, aircraft pilots, military radar operators have seen UFOs, but it
be that these are non-substantial air phenomena. Well, there
are witnesses who state that they have seen UFOs land, who state that they have
seen little creatures near these UFOs, little humanoid creatures. And your
gendarmes, Minister, who have made inquiries, conclude in favour of the
sincerity of the wi. tnesses. What do you think of that?"
M Robart Galley
"Well, if you like, in this matter, I would be a great deal more cautious
but I must say that if the listeners could see the collection.of reports from
the gendarmeriej air gendarmerie, mobile gendarmerie, gendarmerie responsible
for territorial inquiries, which have been handed over to the CNES by us, all
the documents that we had. It is actually rather disturbing. I think the
.
· gendarmes are serious people.
When they cruce a raport, the do
do it haphazardly: and if there were only one or two, you could oay that
the gendarmes' sincerity was suspect.
But I must say that there is a great
number of gendarmes' reports which are very varied, it must be said. Some-
times they relate facts, if you like, which have been reported to few
of them but all the same some talk of phenomena at ground level, you know
1
of
changes in the ground, all this, if you like, is still quite fragmentary. I
think, to conclude if you like in this matter, that we must adopt an extremely
open attitude of mind to all this, not put in doubt the sincerity of people,
soma of whom are obviously sincere, but at the m.o:nent it is really far too
soon to draw the least conclu13ion."
Yves Mourousi
I would remind you that you will be able to hear the whole of this interview
this ev:ning at 2030 hou,..s the progranune
11
No Panic" on France Inter.
MOD Ling Service
GLS/2997
VJR
...
7 -
\Vl; uU IJt:J..
__.,
liJ! '-·-
.
• FRENCH AIR FORCE VERSUS
e bz Lt Col Gaston Alexis·
-
Since last year, the specialist and general press, radio- and netwrks
have been paying an inc1·easing amount of attention to UFOs. Certainly, public
interest in this subject has not yet reached the level of 1954, which caused
two I-1Ps, Messrs Jean Nocher and Leotard, to put a written q-aestion before the
Secretary-of State for the Armed Forces, on October 22, concerning the role
of the armed forces in this at"ea. It i.e true that Mr Galley, the thel'!
Minister of Defence, recalled it clearly at his interview on
In view of the currency of· the however, it seems useful tc recall
the role of the air force in this matten to present the UFO dossier hold by
thea and to sumhlarize the various theories and which exiet in
France.
The Role of the Air Force iu this
?::TTl mrs
At the end of the last world war, a seientific bureau was set up within the
Air Ministry to follow the development of aero-apace techniqueo and technologies
and the progress in the knowledge of the aero-terestrial and spatial
in which aircraft and satellitas have their beinge It has since become a fore-
casting and development bureal.\ but its ro::.es have not changed. In 1951, when
the wave of statements on the appearance of
11
myaterious heavenly objects''
increased in volume in France, this bureau, on ita O"cn initiative, opened
dossier on the subject in order better to appreciate the nature and location of
these manifestations in French airspace.
In 1954, the Secretary of State the Armed Forces asked the air force to follow
up thia question on an official basis from that time on •
•..
An Instruction from the air force staff put cl.eeision iuto concrete form.
All high commands were asked to communicate to the "air" scientific .bureau all
evidence of UFOs collected on their territory.
.,. ..• of the air force :i..n this e:.rea is vory clcs.rly set o".!t. The role of
;i<:: •. air force staff consists solely in estimating whether certcil information
amongst the evidence that they receive is likely to affect national defence;
this is not, in fact so, as we shall see.
It is therefore clear that it is not within their province to make any state-
menta on the origin of such a strange phenomenon, nor to question the veracity
of observations communicated to them officially, either by police or by
territorial or operational high commands.

However, it is their task, whenever possible, to correlate there observations
with
11
real aero-space phenomena" which, under given atmospheric conditionS
might very easily be interpreted by non-specialized observers as strange
phenomena.
After e.ne.lysis of these dossiers from the "national defence" angle, they are
sent to the CNES (National Centre for space studies) to be examined scienti-
fically.
In 1976, study of reports recorded over 25 years by the air force has only
enabled the following facts to be brought to light, from two points of view;
"National deience" 'Point of View
No acts of aggression, either against persons or property, civilian or militarJ,
have been detected.
strange manifestations do not alter the geo-physical balance of the
terrestrial environment. No atmospheric disturbance was detected after they
had passed.
Air defence systems (radar and combat aircraft), which ensure continuous air
cover :>f the national territory, anu also meteorological department radars,
do not
11
rlsualize" UFOs in of cases.
_;,}.
,':·rrp•
' '
.-
To w.te, none of the observe::-s has succeeded either in taking photographs
e UFOs landed on the ground, with or without occupants, or in recovering
pieces of such objects.
Apart from some traces seen or. the ground, no object has been reported or
recovered by observers, which would enable us to prove the material existence
. of UFOs.
Scientific point of View
It would be pointles-s to believe that observation of unidentified space .,.
phenomena is the prerogative of our civilization and that it dates back only
to the start of this century. The first observat:J.ons of these manifestaions
which are not based on the subjective interpretations of "Ufologists
11
{
1
)
dato back to the first known writings. The
11
Ufologists
11
thilik that certain
writings, drawingn D.nd sculptures, particulazoly those of the South American
civilizations make it possible to date these manifestations back to the
origin of primitive civilizations.
as in the past, this phenomenon is only very rarely revealed by
scientific instruments, whilst visual observations abound. Therefore, in
order to achieve greater objectivity, we shall not waste our time in giving a
resume of any one sighting, but we shall present the overall aspect of- the
phenomenon as it can be deduced from the work of the CNES, where Mr Jean-claude
Poher, Assistant Head of the scientific division, is the link with
the airforce in of .the. study of these strange phenomena.
Sampling of the population of French
The of French observers by occupation can be as follows.
It shows that no one privileged social"·'stratum exists in this sphere:
• astronocers· : technicians : 2($
(1). Name given to persons specializing in the study of UFOs. In number 3
.
of Saptember 1975, "Armiees d
1
aujourd
1
hutH featured an article on
-
c
• researchers
• Civilian and military
pilots : 10 (of whom less
for military
pilots)
Engineers :
• Military personnel (of whom less
than f9r military air defence
controllers).
• workmen 1.5%
farmers 1,5%
shepherds5%
In other countries observations made by civilian and military pilots,
personnel and engineers are clearly higher. On the other band they are less
numerous among workmen, technicians and farmers.
Concerning the ages of the observers, the following distribution is noted,
also identical with the distribution notad other countries and seemingly
proportional to the age-groups of the French population:
less than 13 years old
18% between 13 and 20
bebween 21 and 59
60
Having made the acquaintance of the observers, questions must be raised
concerning the value of their observations and the credibilit.y to be afforded
to them.
In the vast majority of cases it can be said that the observers were quite
sincere; their identity was known in three qua=ters of the cases. Since 1954,
these observations have been the subject of reports made by the police to the
Air force staff.
As a general rule, observations were made by more one adult.
Finally, to judge from the distribution of observers a map of France Je
see that the number of observations·:is (fortuitously or otherwise) proportior.D.l
to the density of the population.
We also note a clear improvement in the description of the phenomenon. When
it is a question of·MlJ.ysing this information and, especially, it
.. r'

: .
.
.h "know events" in the realm of aero-space or physics the smallest
take on considerable significance.
Analysis of observations
Correlations made at different levels enable it to be said that in about
of cases, "Strange" observations are any possible doubt, due to known
.aero-space phenonena. They show from the evidence that the observer has indeed
and observed accurately a phenomenon that was strange to him, but which
exists in reality since, on the basis of trds description his statement can be
correlated with aero-spatial or physical "events" which have indeed occurred
at the site of the observation and at the stated time: it is therefore improbable
that the remaining unexplained cases &.aould be pure invention.
Analysis of observations
For the of in France only unexplained operations of the same
phenomenon by at least two adults have been retained for scientific analysis.
The volume of observations thus retained for the period 1951-1975 is about 150
cases, which represent 8)b of the initial volume of observations. The following
information may be drawn from these:
DURATION OF OBSERVATION
WEATHER CONDITIONS I DISTANCE
1 HOUR - 1 DAY 12!16
RAINY OR GREATER THAN 3K}t
3&%
20 MIN - 59 MIN 15%
SNOV.'Y
Yl>
1 - 19 MIN 41%
LOW CLOUD
12% 1- 3 KM
10 SEC - 1 MIN
SKY COVERED WITH
900- 150ai

HIGH CLOUD
1:;'..6
20m - 1Un
J}G
LESS THP.N 10 SEC
12% THICK CLOUD
22%
LESS THAN 10m
"'lf,
CLEAR SKY
50J'

·CONDITIONS IN vlHICH OBSERVA'riONS 'v.'Er.Z WJ>E
Distribution of twenty· cases of "landings" reported, bearing in mind that no photo-
graph of these particUlar cases exists:
_-"

y'

,-
* Two cases near an urban area
• Six cases near isolated dwellings.
• Twelve cases in an isolated region without any dwellings.
. .
Of these twenty cases, only eight mention traces of imprints in the ground.
Characteristics of the phenomenon
The least that can be said is that the form of the phenomena observed, their
dimensions; colouxsetc, are of the most variable, as can be frcmthe
following tables.
-.
FORM COLOUR
NATURE OF LUMINOSITY I
VARIOUS FIXED BUW VERY VARIOUS 1'?% VARIOUS

I
PIN-POINTS 9%
CHANGING
1'7%
NON LUMINOUS
. DOMED

METALLic;
ai·rfo
GLOWING
OVOID WHITE rl% BRIGHT
CIGAR SHAPE, CYLINDER ORAN<li

BRTIJ.TANT
ROUND, CIRCULAR, RED

LUMINOUS
SPID!RICAL

DISCS 165'
I
I

Dimensions
Here again we find a very wide range of data. . Each case seems to be a special
case. In 38.64% there is no information. In 41.82% there is an apparent
which cannot be restituted because of inaccuracy over distance. In
of cases, the diameter is of the order of 1 meter. In of cases, of the
19&
1(fi6
1.5%
18%

order of 7 to 10 meters. In the other cases it varies between 1 meter and 70 meters.
Speed and traj:ecto:.z.
...
This speed variation observed inthe movements of_ the phenomena observed can be
explained by the fact that it corresponds to portions of the trajectory which are
..
identical, as the following shows:
(
SPEED OF MOVEtiENT TRAJECTORY
SUPERSONIC
1696
STRAIGHT LINE
35%
FAST (LIKE AIRCRAFT)
*
SUCCESSIVELY 1-iOVING AND )
ABNORMAL TRA_JECTORIES (STOPS,
FAST
)
42% ARABESQUES /JI{j DISAPPEARANCE) 45%
SLOW 22% LANDING OR
MOTIONLESS 1'1% STATIONARY "PBASEU 20}6
-.
*This is a literal translation of the words ia the text. It is difficult to
what the writer means by
11
successivement mobile et rapid" - unless "mobile"
(moving) is, in fact, a misprint for "immobile" (motionless) whereupon the entry
would read "successively motionless and fast" which would make slightly better
sense.
Emissions observed
SOUND TFEm!AL EFFECTS
·LWJNOifSAND THERMAL-
SMELL
EFFECTS
:
VARIOUS NOISES 12;6 NO EFFECT LUMINOUS \'ARIOUS
OBSERVED 97.2716 PARALYSING BAY o.4(e6 SMELLS
WHISTLING 1)"% EFFEv"'T CORRELATION NOil'E
OBSERVED 1.3'?% COLOUR
SPEED 0.46%
HIDIMING
3%
EFFECT WITE 1.36%
NONE
92.08%
TRACES
Sli'iENCE
I ?Cf/o·
.,
I
Effects on observers and various effects
In France, apart the effect of surprise, only minor effects were recorded
on observers who reported on their observations to the police. None of them was
traumatized by his experience nor underwent any psychological change.
To date, none of them claims to have received a "mission" or bas created any
ideological group based on the claim that he is the prophetic mouthpiece of the
"apparition".
Similarly domestic. seem only slightly disturbed by the phenomenon.
...
I only 5."fti' of cases was a roani festation of fear observed.
Summaries of effects obtained:
EFFECTS ON HUMAN BEINGS
TRACES OF SICIN DISEAS;t
1
9F
INDETERMINABLE ORIGIN
HEADACHES, LOS.3 OF MEMORY
TEMPORARY PARALYSIS OR
FAINTING IN THE PRESENCE
OF THE PHENOHENON
DEATH, NAUSEA, RAPES,
ASSAULTS
0.4&6
2.7-,/o
.

IMPOSSIBLE TO ACT OF ONES OWN
VOLITION 1 .. 82% ( .
I
VARIOUS EFFECTS
FAILURE OF ENGINE WITH
ELECTRICAL IGNITION
EXTENDED ACTION ON VEGE.l'ATION
STRONl MECHANICAL ACTION
RADIO OR TV INTERFERENCE,
TCJrAL RADIO CUT-OUT,
ELECTRICITY ON
PUBLIC SUPPLY, P.ADIQ-
ACTIVITY .
1.82%
0.46%
··:.:
NONE
( 1) ALTHOUGH CERTAIN DOCTORS THINK THESE PHENOMENA COULD BE CAUSED BY I
STRONG EMOTIONAL REACTIONS.
Distribution of observations in time
Since 1951, a certain periodicity bas been recorded in the large-scale appearance
of the phenomena, with clearly marked peaks in.1954, 1964, 1967 and 1975. How-
ever, scientific researchers have not yet been able to iind any particular
apatial occurrence in the uni-verse that corresponds to this npe:::-iodicity". Only
one piece of data could be put forward by Mr Poher! seems to exist a
correlation between UFO observations and temporary abnormal fluctuations in the
earth's magnetic field.
At the overall level of the phenomenon, only the following points can therefore
be put .forward:
..
Observations cannot be suspect since in more than of cases, they can be
correlated with aero-space or physical "events" ..
8

In only 8% of cases, observers are describing a phenomenon that bas really
.en observed and is unlmown;
The variety of characteristics of the phenomenon is such that it is possible
at present to formulate a definite scientific theory its nature
or origin (physical or otherwise\' it also enables us to state that this phenomenon
is not result of human technology.
Its tangible effects on human beings are without danger.
. .. :,:
Given the present state of our knowledge, it seems difficult to conclude
otherwise than by confirming that science is incapable in this area. This
phenomenon cannot, at present, be analysed by means of known measuring instruments
and, in a word, it is only thanks to the accumulation of observationSdescribing
not only this phenomenon but also all the physical data regarding the environment
that researchers may one have the good fortune to discover the parameters
that will enable them to give it a moh:l satisfactory interpretation. Whilst
maintaining an open mind, we must restrain ourselves from hasty conclusions
regarding the nature and origin of the phenomenon and accept the fact that this
problem. like so many others, remains suspended in space.
Translations of picture captions
(Pictures are numbeTed in pencil on the original}
( 1) One of the photographs in the world to retain its mystery: a photograph
taken on January 16th 1968 opposite the island of Trinidad (Atlantic Ocean} in
the presence of geophysical
t2) A flying saucer around the Eiffel Tower? In fact it is only a successful
piece of faking: the brilliant disk is the reflection of a lamp in the window
through 'Which the photoe;raph was taken from a room in the Palais de Chaillot.
(3) Identified UFOs: Centicular clouds.
,
·-·.
Un des rares clichls au monde a garder
el'core un mystere : photo prise. le 16
Janvier /9S8, face 4 l'lle Trinidad
(oc,•c:n Atlantique), en presence de
specialistes de geophysique.
(Photo Cowles Education Corporation,
New York. gracieusetnent communiquee
par leG.£. P.A.).
aux !ranches d'age de Ia population
:
• 10 % ont moins de 13 ans,
• I 8 sont ages de I 3 ans a 20 ans,
• &i sont ages de 2: a 59 ans,
• 8 % oat plus de 60 ans.
Ayant fait connaissance avec lcs
temoin<, il convient de .s 'interroger sur
ia valeur de leurs iemoignagcs et sur
Ia credibilite a leur accorder.
Vne soucoupe autour de Ia tour Eiffel?
II ne s 'agit en realite que d'un e:remple
reussi de trucage : le disque bri/lanl est
Ia riflexion d 'un lampadaire dans Ia vitre
tl trarers laque/le Ia .ohoto a he prise,
dep:cis u11e salle du pnla£r de Chai!lot.
(Pho•o Look special. 1967).
..
'
... ··
I
. '
. .
.
.

"
:+-•.

/If:\
!J!
! /
Dr.ns Ia !.Us grande majorite des
cas, on pcut dire que !Cll temoins sont
de bonne foi, leur identite est dans lcs
trois quarts des ca:; connue. Depuis
1954 ccs temoignages font !'objet d'un
taPFOrt de gendarmerie adresse a l'etat-
major de l'armce de !'air.
En regie genc!rde, les ob;ervations
son! effecluees par plus de per-
sonnes adultes.
Entin, si l'on en juge par Ia r.!parti-
faitcs sur un meme pMnon>ene par "'
moins personnes adultes. :.-_
volume des temoignages ainsi rctcnLJ
pour Ia periode 1951-1975 est de I >o,·,,,
environ, ce qui 8 tit:
volume init:al des •emoigna)!es.
On per;t en tircr ks emeign..:,w.:nt
:
dan.'i ies ob
tions ont eff.:ct,J.:t·s :
-
I Durie de J'cbsenation
Conditbns meteorologiqu•·s
!
ktn 38::1 DelhAij
IS
Temp; de pluie ou
n;;
icun; a 3
De20mna59mn de ncige
Ciel bas 12 ·;., De I a 3 km De Iii 19 mn 41
De 10 >ec. a 1 mn 18 9. Clel veri ptlr •In
nuages en altitu.le 13%
") o; i
1 .. '''!
IWru iS i
n 3 •)
Moins de 10 sec. 12% Nuagcs e;:MiS
Cie: clair
tion des temoins sur une carte de
France, oil constate que le nombrc de
temoignages est (fortuitement ou non)
pr'?portionnel a Ia dcnsite de Ia popu·
latton.
On note par ailleurs une nette am.!·
lioration dans Ia desr.ription du phe·
nomene. Des tors qu'il s'agit d'exploi·
ter ces e! notamment
de les corn!ler avec des " evenements
conn us » aerospatiaux ou
moiodrcs details compknt enorme-
mc.iV.
L'analyse des temolgnages
Les correlations faites aux differents
echelons pcrmettcnt de dire que dans,
De 2(1 )0 I
22% lnfCri.:!ue :i tO
so%
----
m 1
____ I
Repartition li,tgt tas \< •
sage » signJies en rappdant
pht)to de ces pirti.
:
• d.eux. Co.tS prC'i d't.ne zone urhd•ne,
• SIX cas pres d 'h.lbitation.; i·;oke'i.
• douze cas t:r,e s;.:n..
habitation.
Parmi ces .:as hwh. sruh.:rnt!nt
t:ace:. d"empreinte:-.
divcrses sur 1..: soL
Caracteristiques du
Le moins qu'or ptusse dtre e't que
Ia forme des ph·!nomene< obs·:rws.
leurs h:u!s etc
sont des plus variables com me 011 pev
en juger par les t<'t·leaux ci-aprcs :
Forme Couleur
Ponctuel!es
Coupole
O·:oides
!4%
9
l%
14
14%
Fixes mais tres
dh·erses
Changeantes
Metallique
Blanc
Non I·J"'llifleux
Lueur
Eclatart
Brillant

!4
I $,
!0
! 5
Cigares cylindres
R!'nde•. circulaires,
en boule
Dio,ques
30
16%
Orange
Rouge
environ 80 % de5 les cbservations
<.;: i!trangcs )) sont, sans aucun doute
pOSSible, dues U des aerO·
spatiaux connus. El!es demont.-ent a
!'evidence que le temoin a bien observe
av.,.; preciston un {'henomene etrang'!
pour lui mais qui e:uste puis·
(ju'a partir de cette descript''ln on peut
corr.!ler ses dires ave.; des « C'line-
nents " ou physig_ues ·1lli
se snnt bien lleroulcs sur :es heux de
l'obser\ation a l'he"re il devient
alors improbable que ks cas restants
inexpliques soient purement inv:n•es.
L 'cxp.loitation !lee;;
Par souci en Frailce ...
ne sent rt:tfnues polr un c.<a,nen st"il!n-
tifique que les obse! \·ati.,n;
:.' .,, /o'

lft enr:ore 0!1. n:trO!JVe •Jne
grand•! J,;-; r_!f,nn .... es. c:·w.qu-
C&!S s!!mhle un cas parti(
38,64 %. il
Dans 41 ,8 ... /o, :l s u;
diametre appHcn! ·1ui n•! pa
etre en raison tie
sur la di:;•ance. D.ms J .,{ de:-
Je diJ.me-tre de l"c":"drc de un tre
OiJnS ca. di! i'otdrc d.:- '".ep
a Cix me:re.;. DiLl; ks 3.t;!i"CS '
varie de un metre a :;oi;.ante -dix
Vi! '!SSe et tn;jectoh t
Celt\! va:iati0n Ce
danS 1.:-s Cc!,.,iacem('!'ltS des
pt:ut s 'e <._Jliquer par fa
qu,e1h! a d
• qu; ne: pa·; idl!ntiqtl.;
c0r:ur.e l'ir.diq!Jc h.- d-Jcs;.·,.U:'J
[- des rlCplac<:mt:nts --1-.r-;;-jt<o.-··:-oi.-r·----- -·-
Supersor.iques 11% Ligne ...
Rapide<; (\:ommt. des avions)
rr.obiles et 14 .ln•"tm:.::v)
-12 '}; arJ.he'l-lUC:., 4.'·
• tf

• ,
---
..
<. <

' .. · .
ohSt'rvf!es :
0. I" . .'V.I. identifies: nuag"s lenticulaires.
I
Son I::ITets thermiqces
Etrets lumineux
Odeur
et themliques
12 Pas d'effet Ray011 Bruirs divers
Odeur.;
observe 97,27 lumiueu'C
diverses
1.36%
I Siftle:nent
paralysant 0,46
! 5 EITct I Correlation Rien 98,64
constate 1,37 oouleu;
jno,,rJo,ne.r.cnt 3 % Effct avec Vlte!SSC
Silc'lcc iO traces 1,36

Rien
0,46%
92,08
-----
Elfet, ·;ur los temoons ot effets divers
En Fmnce, l'etfet surprise mis
3 part Oil ne C'instate SUt Jes t6moins
q>i <'nl fai; pa' l de leurs observatio•ls
t Ia g.:ndar mcril·, q\.e eifeb
Ant:u 1 d'o:ux n'a Cte trallmarise par
l'apr<;rition du phCnomt!ne ou n'a vu
son p-.yl:hisr.1e t:lodi!le.
A ce jour, a:1cun d'eux ne pretend
avoir une mission )) et n'a crce
un id.!<·logique se pn!tcndant
etre l'c.nanalion prcphetique de I'« ap-
pari!ion )). .
De les an'm:wx domestiqucs
'embknt JXrtwbes par le pheno-.
mene. l)ans 5.4( i:. stule'mcnt des cas.
une manifc.itatic n de f.-ayeur cons-
tat(t;.
• des cf"rls constatcs :
k_=.-- Jcs Ctres
I 'i de :a peau
! q·:c l\10 ::n C'c!:er·
j rnlner ( n 1.36 %
! ·!'! pci1-: 0,46
I
i>ar::: ,-·,je l<:nl"Jt r<.l.!C UU
ncl_;i::.:"'·n:-.:nt \:11 du
rt:e.wl•it•ne 2.73
! nf'ant
I
, a.IS %

d"oXi; .\52. f
Repurlition des ob.ervatinns dans le
temps
Drpuis 1951, on constate une cer-
laine periodicite dans !'apparition mas-
sive des phCnomenes olVt!c des
ndtement nmrquees en 1954, 1964,
1967 et 1975.
Mais les scientifiques
· n 'ont pac pu encore tronver de conjonc-
ture spatiale particuliere de I'Univers
qui corresponde a cette « periodicite >>.
Seu!e une donnee a pu etre en
evidence par M. Poher : il semble
exister unc oorrCiation entre les obser-
V>lions d'O.V.N.I. et des fluctuations
anonnales du champ
magnctique terrestrc.
Au nivcau global du ptu!nomenc,
on. ne peut done retenir t;uc les points
stuvants :
Mise en panne d'un moteur ;\
<Jilumagc
Action prolongee sur Ia vC:gCta-
tion
A-:rion mkanique
Parasit!:s radio ou TV, collpure
radio totale, panned
sur le rC.;;cau public.

1.82 •;.
0,4!' '>;
3.64
ru!ant
propr; "·o!onte i 1.82
«1Ue re:-.\ent qt.e CC'\ pcuvent Ctre rar

23
........
- les temoig.1ages ne peuvent i'tre sus-
pectes dan• plas d·! 80 %
des cas on peut le< d\ec
des (( evenements )) aerospatjaux ou
physiques;
- dans 8 %des cas environles temoins
dccrivcnt un phenomcne rceilemcnt
observe et inconnu:
- Ia des caracteristiqucs du
phenomene telle qu'il n'cst prc-
pas possible d'e!abo;er
une thcorie scientifique rigoureuse
Q'Jant a sa nature ou son \lrigine
(physique ou autre); elle pern•et
cgalemeut d'affirmer que ce pheno-
mcnc n'cst pas le fait d'une technCJ·
Iogie humame;
-. se' efl"ets Ia ngiblcs sur 1-• etres
hamains ct l'cnvironnemeni sont
sails dangC':.
*
* *
En t'Ctat actud de nos
il srmblo ditlicde de conclure
qu 'en cons:atant l'impt.tissaru:e de !a
sdence dans ce d•Jmaine. Cc J'heno·
mcne nc pounnt ptcscntcmem c:re
analyse :'tl'aide de mesure
connus. ce n'est en definitive que grace
a l'acc••mulation cle temoignugcs decri-
vant d 'une fa;;on precise, n<'n sculefllent
Je phenomene, m:1is encore tcut-!s lcs
donnCes. physiques de l'environnement,
que les chen:hcurs
un jour a,·oir Ia chance de d\!c<,uvrir
le< <]Ui de
mieux l'interprC:ter.
Tout en faisant preuve grande
ouverture d'espnt. il faut se ·gardor ue
condusions hatives quant 3 Ia natmi:
eta l"origine du et adn;ettre
qu'ac:tudlement le probl.!me reste pose
comme bien d'autrcs dans le dorolaine
spatial. •
,, .
Written
months to learn how to avo· e dangers
iof using it within a ing or smoke-
filled building. T e considerations. st.ill
hold good. - T e are, however, specmhst
RN and F firemen, equipped with
breathi apparatus and fully trained to
use · , who have been deployed in the
jor conurbations.
UFO's: FRENCH RADIO BROADCAST
The EARL of CLANCARTY asked
Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers to two
recer.t Questions for Written Answer
(cots. 1347 and 1453), not to draw the
attention of the Ministry of Defence and
the Home Office to the interview on
France-Inter radio in February 1974
of the then French Minister of Defence
M. Robert Galley about unidentified
flying objects by M. Jean-Claude
Bourret which is transcribed in his
book The Crack in the Universe.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The Mini-
stry of Defence are endeavouring to obtain
an official transcript of the interview said
to have taken place on France-Inter radio
in February 1974.
GENEVA CONVENTIONS:
ADDITIONAL PROTOCOL
Lord BROCKWAY asked Her
Government:
Whether the Governme t have yet
decided whether to sign e two addi-
tional protocols to th Geneva Con-
vent;ons of 1949 whi were adopted
at the Humanitaria Law Conference
in June of this year· and if he will make
a Statement.
Lord GORO Y-ROBERTS: The
two protocols "" re opened for signature
on 12th Dec nber 1977. Protocol I
relates to th protection of victims of
internationa armed conflicts and Proto-
col n to t protection of victims of non-
internatio al armed conflicts. Signature
of both rotocols on behalf of the United
Kingd took place on 12th December.
Th Government consider that, overall,
the .. protocols E1ath.. a · ..
in _ umanitarian law applicable in armed
conflicts. In Protocol I we particularly
Answers
welcome the increased protection for e
sick and wounded and for medical aircr. ft;
the improved arrangements for i for-
mation on persons reported missin ; the
protection of the civilian pop ation
against direct attack, and the n pro-
visions on implementation and nforce-
ment both of the protocol and th Geneva
Conventions. Protocol 11 pro ides the
minimum standards of cond ct to be
observed by both sides in ci il wars, a
field previously covered only y a single
Article in each of the four 49 Geneva
Conventions. We welcom the funda
mental guarantees provided y Protocol II,
in relation to e.g. accused and detained
persons, protection of the wounded and
sick and medical personnc and protection
of the civilian population
The United Kingdo 's signature of
the protocols was acco panied by formal
declarations on variou points, of which
copies have been pia d in the Library
of the House. Almos without exception,
these reflect statem ts made by the
United Kingdom at t e Conference which
are already part of the negotiating
history. The most significant of them
concern the scope f application of the
protocols. First, s with several recent
international con entions, the Govern-
ment have cons· ered it necessary to
reserve the right t to apply the protocols
in relation to S uthern Rhodesia unless
and until they a e in a position to ensure
that the obliga ions of the protocols in
respect of th territory can be fully
implemented. Secondly, we have con-
firmed the un erstanding upon which we
took part in t e negotiations, that the new
rules introd ed by Protocol I were not
intended to ave any effect on and did not
regulate or prohibit the use of nuclear
weapons.
Thirdly the provisions of Protocol I,
including that on prisoner of war status
for irre ular fighters, apply only to
internati nal armed conflict, which are
now so defined by the protocol as to
include ertain self-determination conflicts.
The overnment have considered it
desira le in this connection to place
form lly on record by means of an
inter retative declaration their under-
stan ing of the meaning of the term
"a ed conflict", which implies a high
l ur vl"
an their understanding of the require-
ments to be fulfiHed by any national
i
!
I
t.

2223 Written [ 14 DECEMBER 1977] Answers 2224
to. leru:n to dangers welcome the increased protection for the
o .. Wifig tt wtthm a or. smoke- sick and wounded and for medical aircraft·
filled building. Th¢' considerations still the improved arrangements for
hold good. Therrare, however, specialist mation on persons reported missing; the
RN and ·firemen, equipped with protection of the civilian popu tion
breathing paratus and fully traiJ.?.ed to against direct attack, and the ne pro-
use it, o have been deployed m the visions on implementation and e force-
majo onurbations. ment both of the protocol and the eneva
Conventions. Protocol II prov· es the
FO's: FRENCH RADIO BROADCAST minimum standards of condu to be
observed by both sides in civil wars, a
field previously covered only l:fy a single
Article in each of the four 1r49 Geneva
Conventions. We welcome,. the funda
mental guarantees provided bf Protocol II,
in relation to e.g. accused fclnd detained
persons, protection of the ,.Wounded and
sick and medical personnel-'and protection
of the civilian population./
The EARL of CLANCARTY asked
Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers to two
recent Questions for Written Answer
(cols. 1347 and 1453), not to draw the
attention of the Ministry of Defence and
the Home Office to the interview on
France-Inter radio in February 1974
' of the then French Minister of Defence
I
I M. Robert Galley about unidentified
flying objects by M. Jean-Claude
Bourret which is transcribed in his
book The Crack in the Universe.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The Mini-
stry of Defence are endeavouring to obtain
\
an official transcript of the interview said
. to have taken place on France-Inter radio
in February 1974.
GENEVA CONVENTIONS:
ADDITIONAL PROTOCOLS
Lord BROCKWAY asked Her Majesty's
Government:
Whether the have yet
decided whether to sign },!!e two addi-
tional protocols to the· Geneva Con-
ventions of 1949 whi.C'h were adopted
at the Humanitariati Law Conference
in June of this year/and if he will make
a Statement. //
Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS: The
two protocols \}'ere opened for signature
on 12th December 1977. Protocol I
relates to the' protection of victims of
armed conflicts and Proto-
col II to thl protection of victims of non-
internatiorlal armed conflicts. Signature
of both Vrotocols on behalf of the United
· took place on 12th December.
The Government consider that, overall,
the t protocols mark a valuable advance
in humanitarian law applicable in armed
conflicts. In Protocol I we particularly
The United Kingdonf's signature of
the protocols was accouwanied by formal
declarations on various/ points, of which
copies have been plac,M in the Library
of the House. Almost' without exception,
these reflect made by the
United Kingdom at tne Conference which
are already part /of the negotiating
history. The most/ significant of them
concern the scope 'of application of the
protocols. First, _as with several recent
international conVentions, the Govern-
ment have it necessary to
reserve the right ftot to apply the protocols
in relation to Southern Rhodesia unless
and until they are in a position to ensure
that the obligjitions of the protocols in
respect of territory can be fully
implemented.;' Secondly, we have con-
firmed the utiderstanding upon which we
took part in,the negotiations, that the new
rules introquced by Protocol I were not
intended any effect on and did not
regulate or prohibit the use of nuclear
weapons. f
'
Thirdly the provisions of Protocol I,
including that on prisoner of war status
for irr6gular fighters, apply only to
international armed conflict, which are
now so defined by the protocol as to
include certain self-determination conflicts.
The f Government have · considered it
desirable in this connection to place
formally on record by means of an
inttrpretative declaration their under-
stahding of the meaning of the term
" Armed conflict ", which implies a high
lt}\rel of intensity of military operations,
and their understanding of the require-
ments to be fulfilled by any national
2225 Written {LORDS J
liberation ·movement which ·sought to TOWN AND COUNTRY'....-·JUM> .......
{nvoke the protocol. Neither in Northern GENERAL
Ireland nor in any other part of the United (AMENDMENT) ORDER;
Kingdom is there a situation which meets · . . . r
the criteria laid down for the application ·Baroness STEWART of'
of either protocol. Nor is there any CHURCH asked Her MajestY's •
terrorist organisation operating within ID.ent: · ; · ·· . , · ·
the United· Kingdom which fulfils 'the Whetherthey will make a
requirements· which a national liberation about the Town and Country Planning
movement must meet in order to be entitled General Development (Amendment)
to claim rights U:nder Protocol I .. There is Order 1977. ·
therefore no question of any. of the pro-
visions of either protocol benefiting the
IRA or .any others who may carry out
terrorist activities in peacetime.
· The protocols will not become binding
upon. the United Kingdom unless and
until the signature is ratified. The Govern-
ment intend to move towards ratification
in due course. . Legislation will be required
to implement certain provisions of Proto-
col I, as it was for the Geneva Conventions
themselves. ·
' · Baroness BIRK: My right honourable
friend the Secretaryof State is arranging
for the order to be withdrawn. The
Government will shortly be presenting to
Parliament the response to the Eighth
Report of the Expenditure Committee:
Planning Procedures. He intends to
consider further the provisions of the
general development order in the light of
reactions to that response.
House. adjourned at fo.ur
minutes before eight o'clock.

ftiJN£ X .. .
'v\fi;itc:vdl London SW1 A 2HB
Telephone 01-218 Dialling)
01-218 SOOO .
Group Captain Yctn:.a.n (RAF)
Air J>.ttncho
Britich Embaosy
}5o Rue du Faubourg
St llono::-e
Paris (8e)
Your rcferc.nco
Our reference
. D/S4(Air)S/l
Date
13 Decembor 1977
1. You probnbly lmow that the Hinictry of Defence receives quite a
considerable correspondence on the subject of Unidentified Flyb.g
Objects including details of
11
sightingsll., \Je t•3ll the public that we
.... ·.:
not the resources to a full zcicutific cnqui::-y ir.to
although we bring the reporta to the attention of the E9ccia.list
staffs of the D-3partmon.t to r:l:lke sure that the objects thought: to have bE:en
seen no bearing on the national defences. V/e do not p·es:.; the
invcsti,satio:n to \;he point of positive· indentificntion bu-t oi the
"tt'lidcntified" objectn are in e.ir\."!l,aft seen fro::: ·;.tn.usual &ngleo ox-
v.nder u.nustml con.di tions$
· 2. As you will see from the enclosed extracts from a number
of queations have been nskcd in the House of Lordf.l in th.a last fe".:l days
concerning an interview whic!'l. Hcnsieux- Eobert Galloy
9
the fon:ier French
Hi.uistcr of Defence is .said to have given on Franco--:Lnte:· :::-adi0 on
· 21 There a::-e alr;o references to the !J.:ltion·::tl for
Space Studies which it; said to·have set up a sectio.n u.nd.cr the direction
of l-lonsieur Clnudt) Po.h er to study unidentified fl:;ins objects ..
3c A member of the puolic vrrote to HOD about the alleged ::-adio interview
last year and \¥hen S4(Air) consulted your staff by telephone in June_ 1976 tre
formed th'3 ir::press:i.o!l that the l:"'re!lch Go•;ernment h9d not embarked on any
pp.rticular ini.ti:>.tive in tnL:; f:i.cldo A note rc!!.dc C!\ t•ur files a.t the
tine suggoGt/:.1 tho.t French practice is as follo'i7S:
a. reports the public go in the first to tha
· Gendanlorie \-:ho if necessary intcr:ie·w ond take
atatements
b. The Gendarr.v::rie pass on the reyorts to the Fre!lch Hinistry
of Defc....nce (l:.ir) -r:ho study tho :r.ilita;.:-y itiplications by
r·:--.,.-1 .. .... ....

5 r, ...., ..
scicntifi c ns:pects \:hich m-:1:'/' hnvc H bcariz1.g on mili
affairs.
e
e
c. F-.com the Defence 11inistry the reports go to a Government
Organisation l:mo.,.:·n D.S· the Centre Nationale d
1
Etude Spatial.
d. The reports are also fed into a computer so that they can.
be'addcd to the statistics of the problem".
\le \-lere also informed that
11
so far the military have never fonnd an-ything
of D.nt1tjgressive nature fro:n the sightings
9
nol' have the scientists been
able to expla:i.n the phenomena". .
4. It is not unlikely that there 'trill be further Parliamentary Questions
about UFos especially as the subject debated recently in the United Nations
and I have been asked to obtain the information:
a. a tl·anscript of the bro.:1dcast said to have beeh made by
•tr .Galley in 1974. Soo1e of the letters we have received allege
that
11
thc French Air Hinistcr officially confirmed that so-called
flying saucers
b. Hhat the vie\-15 of the French Hinintry of Defence really are
on the subj cct of unidentified flying objects ... an0. confirmation
that the procedure as outlined at para 3 aboe is still followed
when reports of UFOs are received from the public-
c. \fuat tho nature of the in,:ec.tigations is at the Centre
liationalc d'Etudc Spat'ial and \'lhether these studien are c:m-
ducted under the dir:-"!ction of 1-lonsieur Claude l?oh.er •
..... :;
.5o I should be most grateful for y•;ur comments as soon as convenient please.
2
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(Miss J.
Parliamentary Clerk
218 6312
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M.3
PS/US c:f S(RA.P) --through DUS(Air)
UFO question by the Earl o± Clancarty relates· to
two he put down in Decemberc The Earl, who succeeded recently,
has many books and is· a Vice ·President of the
British UFO Research Asscci'ation; he- seeking a Lords de,1Jate
on 1Jl:'Os. There is no cha.rJce ·of his being convinced by an HOD
-reply; or,by anyon_e e_;t_se
1
s_ f-or that
•.•.
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M.3 contd
r doncurren tly the Daily Express is drumming up
· expensi
nnd' shortly to be released - evidently 'hard' sci-fi,
with an internationally recognised UFO man as advise.r, not
a light romance like •star ¥Tars'. We may be in for a long
hau1 on UFOs. The reply to the Earl will probably be reported
at least in the Daily Express,who will make what they can of
it.
3. Draft reply and background note placed opposite. The
Earl presumably hopes for NOD recognition that 'H Galley
admitted freely that UFOs exist; that they are a serious
problem; that many landings have taken place and are still
doing so' (to quote Lord ClancartyJs recent letter to the
Daily Telegraph). As the records in this file shovT, H Galley,
equivocal though he was, admitted no such thing, only#·that
the phenomena are sometimes difficult to explain. Official
French rJIOD attitude is similar to our own: UFos·may or may not
exist, but there is no evidence of military threat.
4. In qne of his books the Earl suggests that UFO reports
go back to the Star of Bethlehem and earlier. If 'They' have
not attacked in the last 2000 years, it is doubtful whether
the Earl's evidence could diversion of defence resources
just at-present; but it woulci 'be imprudent for to say such
things publicly t for rre ";Ould merely 1ra-t-T ..

------·-
3 March 1978
---- .--,.;.----

/,,,:<· ,-;
T M P STEVENS
Head of S4(Air)
MB 8245 7048 r.m
ANS\vER
To ask Her Majesty's Government
whether since theii· J ast reply
(Official Report, 1st December,
col. 1453) they have now obtained
the official transcript of the .
broadcast on France-Inter radio
station, February 1974, when the
then French liftnister o:f Defence,
Monsieur Robert Galley, was inter-
viewed by Jean-Claude Bourret
about unidentified flying objects.
The }\finistry of Defence n.ow has the official transcript of
M C·alley's broadca:Jt in ·1974. in it indicates the
existence of a threat to the Kingdom •
...
· "' is a sequol to those put dv-wn by the Earl of
··::and 15th December (PQ 7343B and PQ 7456B)
that there was no record o:f !-'I Galley's statement
:-t.ndeavouring to obtain an official transcript.·
2. The official transcript has been provided by the RAF Air Attache
ill Paris, who has also confirmed the vievT of thE- French I-Tinis·iiry of
Defence on the of Unidentified Flying Objects (See tJmexes A-D).
3. The key points in M Galley's statement at B are that:-
,.
a. there are things about UFOs which are not understood
and have not been explained.
b. "\'le must adopt an extremely open attitude of mind to
this, not put into doubt the sincerity of pecple
(reporting ill'Os) •••••• but at the mo:rr.ent it is really
far too soon to draw the least conclusion" •
.
4. In vie1v of the French Ministry of Defence (Almex C) may be
snmmarised as follmrs:-
a. "The role of the Air Force staff consists in
estimating whether certain information amongst the
evidence they receive is likely to affect national
defence: this is not in fact so •••••• No acts of
aggression. either against persons or property, civilian
or military, have been detected".
b. "The phenomena cannot, at present, be analysed by means
of known measuring instruments •••••• \·ihilst maintaining
an open mind, we must restrain ourselves from hasty
conclusions regarding the nature and origin of the
phenomenon and accept the fact that this problem, like
many others, remains su.spended in space".
5. These statements are not significantly different from the line
taken by 1<IOD. 'tle have been telling Parliament and the general public
for years tha·i; rie do not dismiss the possibility that intelligent life
could exist in O)..l.ther space bu .. t tha·t; -r,re. have not the resources to
the nature of alleged Unidentifiea Flying Objects.
which are received in HOD referred to
.· for our Air defences to make sure that
on the security of the country. No conVincing
.................. has ·emerged to date that UFOs actually exist· or }fave defence
ons. Many reports turn out to have commonplace explanations,
common being aircraft or aircraft lights seen under unusual
conditions. The cause of some sightings has not been positively
identified but the reports often lack essential detail. We have
recently reviewed our policy on UFOs with Head of DI 54, who confirm
that it is reasonable to confine our enquiries to the defence
implications and that the exclusion of any investigation beyond this
for MOD is not considered justified.
6. There has been a series of articles on UFOs in the Daily Express
recently, although these seem to be linked with publicity for the multi
million pound commercial film iiClose Encounters of the Third Kind
11
which is shortly to be released. The Eve:1ing Ne\·Ts of 23 February 1978
car1"'ied a report about lights which :follmred a young housewife home
adding that "The Earl of Clancarty, a UFO expert, believes the lights
may have .. been those of a spacecraft sent to spy on us by an unkr..own
civilisation from another planet. • •••• He is currently tryine to
get a House of Lords debate on UFOs and w8.nts an international
investigation". This intention has been documented in the 'No Day
Named' section of the Lords• Order Paper for 28
7. The book, ttThe Crack in the Universe
1
' which the Earl of Clancarty
referred t0 in his question of 14 December 1977 contains an oocurate
translation of r.r Robert Galley's broadcast in 1974. It also
introduces the transcript quite fairly (on page 75) as an interview
which gave the Ydnister the opportunity to declare that "there are
phenomena lvhich are unexplained". The blurb on the dust cover,
however,. bas N Galley freely admitting that UFOs exist and that they
are a serious problem.
. ..
••

lJNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether since their last reply (Official
Report, 1st December, col. 1453) they
have now obtained the official transcript
of the broadcast on France-Inter radio
station, February 1974, when the then
French Minister of Defence, Monsieur
Robert Galley, was interviewed by
Jean-Claude Bourret about unidentified
· flying objects.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The
Ministry of Defence now has the official
transcript of M. Galley's broadcast
1974. Nothing in it indicates the existence
of a threat to the United Kingdom.
(Jqg.

,_
•. . Reference . . . ..J ?..1.±.3..:.: .....
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I - - ------ _·\::)
M.l
:'··, .. ·
"
Lords question forwardr-!cl :for necessary action - draft
1 b
, 1: ' ,1 • .., +
9
fi -r r·.,. ,.. •
rep y, ;<_ / 1\) /l
Please return to Room 6332 by •• .):.0.,.1..-;-;-; ...•. ."'! ......
}.1. 2
PS/SofS ( thro"J.gh DUS (Ai·r))
Clerk
218 ..
Draft reply and backgrotmd note
2. At the ba0k of the fold·er I have placed copies· of parallel
questions to thG Home Office ·and Departnent of Education cmd
Science. Our-enquiries suggest tDe Home Office reply may
be faintly-ir0nic, to the effect that c no instructions are given
to the police, but they 11ill no doubt any lJ.n-u.sual
occurrence-s· ui th their usual vigour., Department of Education .
a.nd Science s.:::-e expected t.o say that they do h.;:.ve, contact th
the French body concerned, but not on. -qE'O-i.
;
\
I
25 1917
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. . ··:
THE EARL OF CLANCARTY
ANS,•TER
MONDAY, 28TH NOVE1JIBE!fi:1977 .
'
To ask Her Majesty's Government.
l'Thether they are alvare that in an
interview on France-Inter radio
on 21 February f974 Nonsieur Robert
Galley, then French of
Defence, stated that his
had set up a section in 1954 to
study eyewitness accounts of
unidentified flying objects; and
l'Thether our Ninistry of Defence
also has a section to investigate
these tmidentified flying objects.
The Gove:rnment has no record of a statement made in
February 1974 by the then French of Defence.
Our of Defence has no specific organisation
engaged on the examination of reports of unidentified flying
objects; reports are examined by specialist staffs as part ·of
their normal duties to see if they contain any implications
for the defence of the United Kingdom. Investigations into
any scientific signifi-cance of phenomena which go beyond
defence interests are not carried out.by the Department •.
BACKGROUND NOTE
MOD interests in UFO investigation is solely to establish
whether report have any bearing on defence. Investigations of
individual reports over a number of years have produced no
evidence that UFOs represent a threat to defence. As might be
expected, simple explanations have been found for most UFO
reports, the most common single source of sightings being air-
craft or the aircraft seen under unusual meteorological
conditions. There is nothing to justify the expenditure of Defence
funds on setting up a section to investigate the reports.
2. We sometimes take the line: 'The :r;roD does not dismiss the
possibility that intelligent life could exist in outer space, but
reports that have reached the Department to date contain no
to support the view that these alleged phenoThena are of
an extra-terrestrial origin'. However, that response is more likely
the dedicated enthusiasts than to convince them, so it is
customary to p1ay a dead bat.
3. During 1976, the statement said to have been made by the French
of Defence in 1974 was brought to the Department's notice
in correspondence from the public. Attempts by DPR(R.U')- to verify
the through the Embassy were unsuccessful, since
it was virtually impossible to check back on a radio programme
broadcast two years earlier. Neither -v;as the British .A.ir Attache's
staff in Paris able to produce information on the broadcast. It is
understood, ho"'rever, that the French Defence Ninistry also study
the implications and consider any scientific aspect that
may have a bearing on military affajrs. The reports are also con-
sidered by French scientists at a Government organisation knO\m as
the Centre Nationale D'Etude 'spatial. The British Air Attache in
advised in 1976 that so far the had found
nothing of an aggressive nature'in the sightings -nor have the
scientists been able to the phenomena.
25 November 1977



'L:J
· Written [LORDS] Answers 1454
ltviation Terminal has been brought into go beyond defence interests are not I
use for domestic flights only, and earned out by the Department.
attenda.Uce by Customs and Immigration .
not be necessary .
'·' .. , .
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware in an
interview on France-Inter radto on
21st February 1974 Monsieur Robert
Galley then French Minister of
stated that his Ministry had
set up a section in to .study eye-
witness accounts of urudenttfied flymg
objects; and whethe1 of
Defence also has a section to mvesttgate
these unidentified flying objects.
Lord WINTERBO'ITOM: The
Government have no record of a state-
ment made in February 1974 by the then
French Minister of Defence.
Our Ministry of Defence has D;O SI?ecific
organisation engaged .on the of
reports of unidentified flymg objects;
reports are examined by as
part of their normal duttes to see tf they
contain any implications for the defence of
the United Kingdom. lnvestigations into
any scientific significance of phenomena
ROAD SIGNS
DE . CLIFFORD asked Her
's Government:
Wh information the large yellow
backed road signs exhibiting black
triangles, diamonds, circles and squares
now proli rating in the West Midlands
meant to nvey to the motorist; and
whether the will be included in the new
Highway Co for everyone's informa-
tion.
Baroness STED AN: These new signs
mark routes for t ffic to . follow when
some emergency re uires a section of
motorway to be c sed. They guide
drivers from the moto ay and back to it
beyond the point of clos . Because the
signs are at present indivi ally authorised
for each route and have not yet been
prescribed in regulations fo general use,
they are not being include in the new
Highway Code; but they ha e received
press publicity and an explana ry leaflet
has been produced for distri tion to
drivers. I shall be sending the no le Lord
a copy of the leaflet and copies ha been
placed in the Library.
House adjourned ;:Lt ten
minutes before eight o'cloc
••
·,·><,·•r,--

.
1451 Television [ 1 DECEMBER 1977] and Radio _
though of ·-course if the BBC wish to There are many general benefits avmla"le
approach us on this matter sometime to all listeners and a ·point men-
next year we will be perfectly prepared tioned by many noble Lorqs in the debate.
to listen to what they have to say. Apart from the dissemination of news and
I will, after what has arguably already
been an overlong speech, sum up.
I would repeat that we are glad to have
had this opportunity-! speak for myself
and, I am sure, for all who have partici-
pated in the debate-to pay tribute to the
valuable work which broadcasters un-
doubtedly play in our society. When I
was recently in the United States I was
struck by the very high esteem with which
programmes from this country were
regarded. These programmes, both from
the BBC and Independent Television, are
finding their way on to the networks and
public broadcasting stations in the United
States. Both the BBC and Independent
Television have offices in the United
States selling British programmes and in
1976 the total volume of overseas sales for
the BBC and IBA was over £18 million,
and despite the undoubted fact that a
substantial amount of foreign material is
shown on British television, we still have a
quite significant surplus on our balance of
payments as far as television is concerned,
which is a quite remarkable tribute to both
the BBC and Independent Television.
In the light of what my noble friend
Lord Vaizey said, I shall . avoid the
temptation to say we have the best tele-
vision in the world. My Swedish is
extremely poor, my German is non-existent
and I am a little rusty even in my Nor-
wegian, so I would certainly not make that
claim. Nevertheless, choosing rather more
neutral language, I would say that our
programmes stand comparison with those
made anywhere else in the world. That is
not to say that we should be pleased with
everything that is produced. To be blunt,
that would be an absurdly complacent
view. Inevitably, there will be cases
from time to time where it is believed that
there have been lapses in taste and
sometimes in sensitivity, but it is for the
broadcasting authorities, not the Govern-
ment, to deal with those. A few such
alleged lapses have been mentioned this
afternoon and we have had them more than
touched on in the Press in recent months.
Nevertheless, we recognise how essential
is the function that the BBC and the
Independent Broadcasting Authority
perform at relatively modest cost to the
community.
information, the encouragement of the
arts and the promotion of education in all
its forms, there are;--as' 'the· noble Lord,
Lord Winstanley, 'said, the special and
particular benefits conferred on the aged,
the infirm and the lonely, for whom ·life
without the· broadcasting services would
indeed be a miserable existence. In the
Government's view, no formal inquiry is
needed to ensure that proper recognition
is given to the valuable work done by our
broadcasters. Nevertheless, this short de-
bate has at least enabled some of the more
positive achievements of the industry to
secure wider recognition.
Lord FERRIER: My Lords, before the
noble Lord sits down, I should like to
point out that I was looking forward to
hearing the Government's view on my
point about the broadcasting of infor-
mation about Parliament.
Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH: My
Lords, despite what has been, as I have
already indicated, an overlong speech,
it has been impossible to deal with every
point raised, but certainly what the noble
Lord refers to is an important matter, and
I will ensure that it is taken into account
during our discussion of the Annan
Report.
WRITTEN ANSWERS
CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION:
HEATHROW AIRPORT
Lord TREFGARNE
Majesty's Government:
asked Her
How many Customs and Immigration
officials are presently employed at
Heathrow Airport and how many will
be needed to man the new General
Aviation Terminal there.
The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-
SECRETARY of STATE. DEPART-
MENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness
Birk): The numbers of Customs officers
and Immigration Service staff employed
at the Heathrow Airport passenger ter-
minals on 31st October 1977 were,
respectively, 392 and 509. The General

'fVritten .
[LORDS]
Answers
1454
l:..viation has t•.cought i11.tC:·
us:: for cloracsti:: flights only, ar.J. therefore
attendance by Customs and Imm!graticn
will nol be
i ,,hich go beyond l!-:!fence i!!t·:·r·::s:_; "'':
I carried out by th•.! Department.
ROAD SIGNS
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING Lord DE CLIFFORD Her
OBJECTS I M!'jesty's Gcvernr.'.ent:
I
What l.:rgo yellow
The Ea::l of CLANCARTY as\r::c! Her baeked ro:td s!gns exhibiti!!g black
lViajcsty's Governme;1t: I triangles, diamond5, ;lnl! r.quare:s
·u· th t' "'" .... th"t ;n an I now pro!ifcrating in Micl!.Ends
h uc 'er !1-.; ...... ··-··- '·--.. '' ··• I meant to convev to the and
inten·iew on France-Inter r:id'o on whetil.er they wi1i be included in new
Fcbraar; .Rober! I Highway Code for ever:,.-or;c'i; itlforma-
Gall;;y, tb:n 1-rcncrt. • vt ' tion.
Dcfen:::c, stated that h1s !vfmlSt!"J had !
set up a s::ction in 1957 to _st:Idy eye- ! Baroness STED?viAN: These $igns
·;:itn<:"ss of umdent:ficd f:ylng J m::1.rk routes for traffic to follow when
oh!ects ·, a:;.d v;hcthet our Mir;'$tly of . . .
- · 1 scme ea-,crgency rcqlilrcs <>. sectiOn ot
_has a se_ction r.· o mve:.tigatr; .
motorway to be dosed. They guiae
these nmdentJfied fi;mg objects. I drivers from the motorw::w and to it
beyond the point of the
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The 1 sign" are at present individually
have no record of I for each route and hu::e not b:!;;n
ment mace in February 1974 by prescribed in !om for v;;.e,
1 French 1Vfl:1istcr of De renee· <l!ey are not 1:-emg mcluded u ne .v
I lfir;hway Code; b'.lt the-y hT1;e •
1
1
Our of Defence -l}as no
5
I?eci:fic I press publicity and an bl:iet
c:ganis<::ti0n .0.:1 of i has been for di:tn t>utioi! to
I rc•1crl:; of u Jt"Ct
5
; j drivers. I shall be sending the Eobie Lord
1
1
examined by specialist sta!1's as \ f tl 1 "' t d -·Ps rN
1

"
1
c1 . . , h a copy o . 1e ca11c an COi-•L "'"" ,. _,_,: 1
1·<•rt 0f Ih::o:r· t:tte;;: to >-ee
1
t t .ey i placed in the LilHary.
I
ccntain anv implications for the defence c.f .
1
tl:c United Kiagdcm. lnvestigJ.tbns inio :: ten
I any $d;::ntif.c sigaificancc of phenome:1a minutes before o'd.:.)ck.
i
I
'
!
l
;
1347 Written
include persons detained on 'com-
pletion of a sentence of imprisonment.
(4) No information is readily av t-
able about the average time spen in
custody prior to deportation by pe ons
who had not been imprisoned or a
criminal offence.
(5) The longest period fo
such a person in custody.
October 1977 had been held
1971 Act awaiting depo
301 days.
(6) There is considera e variation
in the circumstances of hose held to
await deportation after s ving custodial
sentences. The only inf rmation readily
available relates to 4 people dis-
charged from Penton 1lle prison in the
first half of 1977: is shows that a
quarter of those recommended for
deportation spent ess than 21 days
in custody betwe the completion of
their sentence an their deportation; a
half spent 43 d 'S or less; and three-
quarters spent 6 days or less.
(7) Unconvi ed prisoners, including
those detain under the provision
of the 1971 can apply to make
personal te phone calls within the
United Ki gdom for the following
purposes:
(a) urgent domestic reasons,
(b) t clear up immediate business
proble s,
(c) o consult a solicitor,
(d to arrange bail securities,
(e to contact a national repre-
sen tive at an Embassy etc.
(8 A request for assistance for a
visit to a detainee would be considered
on he same basis as for a visit to a
re and prisoner.
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware that
Robert Galley, the then
French Minister of Defence, in his
radio interview OJ< the France-Inter
radio on 21st Februarv 1974 stated that
the gendarmerie are· playing a very
large;, part in ofikial investigations into
unidentified flying object sightings and
alle!!ed landin!!3: and whether our
poli'l:e have likev.ise otftcially
A11swers 1348
instructed to collect reports and in-
vestigate these unidentified · flying
objects.
Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH:
The Government has no knowledge of
either the radio interview to which the
Question refers, or the role played by the
gendarmerie in investigating unidentified
flying objects. The police in tqis country
have not been asked to collect reports of,
or in.vestigate, unidentified flying objects.
The jurisdiction and powers of the police
are normally confined to terrestrial activi-
ties, but I have every confidence that
should an occasion arise where there is
evidence that an unidentified flying object
has landed within a police area, the police
force concerned will investigate it with its
customary vigour. However, until there
is some clear indication that the frequency
of such occurrences is likely to impose a ·
significant burden on the police, I doubt
whether it would prove fruitful to issue
guidance on this subject.
" A STUDY OF EXMOOR "
Lord NORTHFIELD asked
Majesty's Government:
Whether they will make a State ent
on Lord Porchester's Report A tudy
of Exmoor.
Baroness STEDMAN: As t e House
was informed on 6th April la , my right
honourable friends the Seer ary of State
for the· Environment and t e Minister of
Agriculture, Fisheries and ood appointed
Lord Porchester to und ake a study of
changes in the moor nd areas of the
Exmoor National Pa , because they felt
that the exceptional 1aracter of the moor
as a national her' age and the need to
balance and safeg ard the various interests
concerned calle or special and immediate
study.
My right nourable friends are greatly
indebted to ord Porchester for the fair
and expe tious way in which he has
conducte the Survey and prepared his
report. his was published yesterday and
copies re available in the Printed Paper
Office
T e report establishes that since 1947
the otal area of moorland in the National
P k has been reduced by some 12,000
Within the Cri1ica1 Amenity Area
:,

. • ";! c .
. '
..

t
' ·,
[ 6 DECEMBER 1977 ] ·Answers
She .. has extended ''and ex-
. best·possible way- our whole
··to aid, and I should like it made
.. llv clear · that that is what we
like to give the noble Lord
uu·uL<ILLIU'H from his article. He
this particular project the
case was based on " less
motives ". In answer
to give one quotation
of my right honourable
· take into account human
Cambodia or Uganda,
Czechoslovakia or
!5"'·'"""' for the support I
my two noble
no·welUill and impressive
noble Lord,
powerful con-
that on the
must look
back on
project.
has
• ....... to
WRITTEN ANSWERS
. 1 UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
-1i OBJECTS
?S
J!he Earl of CLANCARTY asked
· , .... Majes(y's Government:
Whether they are aware that in
!
France, since 1st September 1977, .a
section for the study of unidentified
flying objects has been set up in the
National Centre for Space Studies in
l
Toulouse, under the direction of
Monsieur Claude Poher, a distinguished
scientist, and that this body is sponsored
upon the French Ministry of Industry
. ·j a!ld. and whet.her. there is a
j s1mtlar scientific orgamsation under
. l. Government sponsorship in the United
· . . Kingdom to study unidentified flying
.
objects, working closely with the French· .
•. 9ne.
The MINISTER of STATE,'
MENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE
1
(Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge): • HeC:
Majesty's Government understand that a
study group called the Groupe d'Etudes
sur les Phenomenes Aerospatiales Non-:
Identifies (GEPAN) has been set up under·
the French Ministry of Industry, Com-
merce and Artisans at the National
Centre for Studies' in Toulo.u.se.
The group has no formal links with the
United Kingdom, and we have no similar
scientific group to study unidentified
objects or phenomena.
LEGAL AID REFUSALS
L rd CHITNIS asked Her Majesty's
Gov rnment:
hether they will list in the Official
Rep rt the number of applications for
legal aid which have been refused for
each ear since 1970 and whether they
will c ssify this information according
to the following categories:
(a) ere the Supplementary Benefits
Co mission have determined the
app 'cant's disposable income at an
amo nt greater than the limit;
(b) wh e the Supplementary Benefits
Com ission have determined the
applic nt's disposable capital at
an am unt greater than the limit;
(c) where the proceedings to which
the ap ication related are not
proceedi s for which legal aid may
be given;
(d) where t e applicant has not
shown th he has reasonable
grounds f o taking, defending, or
being a part to the proceedings;
(e) where it a ears unreasonable
that the appli ant should receive
legal aid in the articular circum-
stances of the ca e.
The LORD CHAN LLOR: The
available information is se out below in
two tables. No informati is available
about category (c) and co ined figures
only are available for categori (a) and (b).
In England and Wales comb ed figures
only a.re available for .categories (d) and (e).
,_
,;
,. 1 '
. ~ .
••
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IDOSE NIIWTE
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D/S4(Air)8/3
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
C'b.j.e:f Librarian
In a recent House of Lords
Parliamentary Question on Unidentified
FJ.ying Objects the Earl of Clancarty
referred Ministry of Defence to a book
11
The Crack in the Universe
11
by H.Jean-Claude
Bourrett ( pu.blisher un:kno1-r.a.) •
2. . Would you please obtain a copy and
send it in the first instance to S4(Air).
[ "'2.- December 1 977

1599 . • ·.. . . . Written . . [ 6 DECEMBER.t9i7] AIISwers 1600:
. ' •. c.:••• •
countries. She has extended and ex-, objects, working closely with the French
pa.nded ,in the best ·possible way our· whole one.
·.approach aid, and I should. like it made The MINISTER of STATE, DEPART-
-r·cl.ear., that that ts what w . MENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE
meant. (Lord Donaldson of.Kingsbridge): Her
I should like to give Majesty's Government understand that a
another quotation from his article study group called the Groupe d'Etudes
said that in this particular proj t sur Jes Phenomenes Aerospatiales Non-
Government's case was based "less Identifies (GEPAN) has been set up under
elevated political answer the French Ministry of Industry, Com-
to this I should like to give on quotation merce and Artisans at the National
from a recent article of my rig honourable Centre for Space Studies in Toulouse.
friend. It is this: The group has no formal links with the
" ... we all need to take in account human United Kingdom, and we have no similar
rights, whether it be Cam odia or Uganda, scientific group to study unidentified
Indonesia, Chile, or Bolivi. Czechoslovakia or objects or phenomena.
the SoYicl Union".
I am most gratef for the support I
have received tonig from my two noble
werful and
combination, an from the noble Lord,
Lord Avebury, · another powerful con-
tribution. I ink now that on the
question of a· for Bolivia we. must look
to the futur . We shall not go back on
our decisio about the tin mining project.
As I have aid, our offer of assistance has
been wei omed, and our commitment to
help w n we can find the right projects
is a fir one. The Government's reasons
for d ciding against the mining projects
are ood ones. They are perfectly well
un erstood by the Bo:ivian Government,
a we look forward to· mutually satis-
f ctory relations over new projects.
WRITTEN ANSWERS
UNiDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECTS .
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked
Her 1-!ajesty's Government:
Whether they are aware that in
France, since 1st September 1977, a
section for study of unidentified
fly:ng objects has beer. set up in the
National Centre for Space Studies in
Toulouse, under the direction of
Mcnsieur Claude Poher, a distinouished
scientist, and that this body is
upcn the French l'v!inistry of Industry
and Research; and whether there is a
similar scientific organisation under
sponsorship in the United
Kmgdom to study unidentified flying
LEGAL AID REFUSALS
Lord CHITNIS asked Her Majesty's
Government:
Whether they will list in the Official
Report the number of applications fo
legal aid which have been refused f r
each· year since 1970 and whether t ey
will classify this information acco ing
. to the following categories:
. (a) where the Supplementary enefits
Commission have deter · ed the
applicant's disposable inc me at an
amount greater than th limit;
(b) where the Suppleme ary Benefits
Commission have d termined the
applicant's dispos le capital at
an amount greater. than the limit;
(c) where the pro edings to which
the applicatio related are not
proceedings fo which legal aid may
be given;
(d) where th applicant has not
shown t t he has reRsonable
grounds or taking, defending, or
being a party to the proceedings;
(e) wher it appears unreasonable
that he applicant should receive
leg aid in the particui:Jr circum-
st ces of the case.
The LORD CHANCELLOR: The
avail le information is set out below in
two tables. No information is ava.ilable
ab ut category (c) and combined figures
o yare available for categories (a) and (b).
England and Wales combir.ed figures
only are available for categories (d) and (e).
:'!7c----....

- _,.,. .. . .... .......... .
. .... . ' ' .- ·. '. .
,: -: -, --
. .· . -· .
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. [REOACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
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Lords question :forward0d for necessary act:iori - dr:llt
. •
reply, bZ'..ckground note
Please return to P.oom 6332 by •• .I.Q; .QQ. '<.v. .. Q-\.1. .
· .___,, · · . k .
T(A.Q. IQ f1 t..D "\\)'"'"""'" ex.".c.ie
Secretary of State's Office amentary C
218-

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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
.S/USofS(RAF)(Through DUS(Air) ,
As stated in the Background Note to the Earl of
Clancarty•s question on 1 December 1977 (file PQ.7343B
attached) a member of the public drew our attention to
this broadcast last year. Our enquiries in 1976 failed
to produce any first hand information on remarks which
the French of Defence might have made. We have
been unable to obtain a copy of M Jean-Claude Bournett•s
book, "The Crack in the Universe". S4(Air) have written
to the British Air Attache in Paris to obtain a transcript
and any.other information which might be relevant, but
this is 'bound to take time.
2. I suggeHt the enclosed draft reply to the Earl of
Clancarty's question; the word 'official' is important,
beca').lse it rrould be unl'rise to become involved in discussions
based on biassed or selective • The
Home Office agree
1 2 December 1 977
ANS,vER
(The Lord Winterbottom)
To ask Her Majesty's Government
whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers
to two recent Questions for Written
Answer (cols. 1347 and 1453), not
to draw the attention of the Ministry
of Defence and the Home Office to the
interview on France-Inter radio in
·February 1974 of the then French
Minister of Defence M •. Robert Galley
about unidentified flying objects by
M. Jean-Claude Bourret which is
transcribed in his book "The Crack
in the Universe".
The Ministry of Defence are end{;avouring to obtain an
official transcript of the interviel'T said to have taken
place on France-Inter radio in Febrmtry 1974.
Written
to learn how to avo· e dangers
; usirig it within a i.?-g or. smok7-
. filled building. e constderatiOns.
hold good. · T e are, however, spectahst
RN and F firemen, equipped with
breathi apparatus and fully trained to
use · , who have been deployed in the
JOT conurbations.
UFO's: FRENCH RADIO BROADCAST
The EARL of CLANCARTY asked
Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers to two
recer.t Questions for Written Answer
(cots. 1347 and 1453), not to draw the
attention of the Ministry of Defence and
the Home Office to the interview on
France-Inter radio in February 1974
of the then French Minister of Defence
M. Robert Galley about unidentified
flying objects by M. Jean-Claude
Bourret which is transcribed in his
book The Crack in the Universe.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The Mini-
stry of Defence are endeavouring to obtain
an official transcript of the interview -said
to have taken place on France-Inter radio
in February 1974.
GENEVA CONVENTIONS:
ADDITIONAL PROTOCOL
Lord BROCKWAY asked Her
Government:
Whether the Governme t have yet
decided whether to sign e two addi-
tional protocols to th Geneva Con-
vent:ons of 1949 whi were adopted
at the Humanitaria Law Conference
in Jcne of this year· and if he will make
a Statement.
Answers
welcome the increased protection for e
sick and wounded and for medical aircr. ft;
the improved arrangements for i for-
mation on persons reported missin ; the
protection of the civilian pop ation
against direct attack, and the n pro-
visions on implementation and nforce-
ment both of the protocol and th Geneva
Conventions. Protocol 11 pro ides the
minimum standards of cond ct to be
observed by both sides in ci il wars, a
field previously covered only y a single
Article in each of the four 49 Geneva
Conventions. We welcom the funda
mental guarant.ees provided y Protocol II,
in relation to e.g. accused and detained
persons, protection of the wounded and
sick and medical personnc and protection
of the civilian population
The United Kingdo 's signature of
the protocols was acco par.ied by formal
declarations on variou points, of which
copies have been pla d in the Library
of the House. Almas without exception,
these reflect statem ts made by the
United Kingdom at t e Conference which
are already part of the negotiating
history. The most significant of them
concern the scope f application of the
protocols. First, s vvith several recent
international con entions, the Govern-
ment have cons· ered it necessary to
reserve the right t to apply the protocols
in relation to S uthern Rhodesia unless
and until they a e in a position to ensure
that the obliga tons of the protocols in
respect of th territory can be fully
implemented. Secondly, we have con-
firmed the un erstanding upon which we
took part in t e negotiat:ons, that the new
rules introd ed by Protocol I were not
intended to ave any effect on and did not
regulate or prohibit the use of nuclear
weapons.
Thirdly the provisions of Protocol I,
including that on prisoner of war status
Lord GORO NY-ROBERTS: The for irre ular fighters, apply only to
two protocols · re opened for signature internati nal armed conflict, which are
on 12th Dec nber 1977. Protocol I now so defined by the protocol as to
relates to th protection of victims of include ertain self-determination conflicts.
internationa armed conflicts and Proto- The overnment have considered it
col IT to t protection of victims of non- desira le in this connection to place
internatio al armed conflicts. Signature form lly on record by means of an
of both rotocols on behalf of the United inter retative declaration their under-
Kingd took place on 12th December. stan ing of the· meaning of the term
Th Government consider that, overall, "a ed conflict", which implies a high
.

I
1

conflicts. In Protocol I we particularly mcnts to be fulfilled by any national
l
t.

2223 Written [ 14 DECEMBER 1977] Answers 222
4
to.leru:n to dangers the increased protection for the
o. · g It withtn a . or; smok7- sick and wounded and for medical aircraft.
filled building. considerations still the .improved arrangements for infor=
hold good. There'are, however, specialist matton on persons reported missing· the
RN and firemen, equipped with protection of the civilian popu 'tion
breathing paratus and fully traiJ?-ed to attack, the ne pro-
use it o have been deployed m the VISions on Implementation and e force-
majo ' onurbations. ment both of the protocol and the eneva
Conventions. Protocol II prov' es the
FO's: FRENCH RADIO BROADCAST minimum standards of condu to be
observed by both sides in wars a
field previously covered only 1}Y a sin'gle
Article in each of the four lf.49 Geneva
Conventions. We welcome! the funda
mental guarantees provided by Protocol II
in relation to e.g. accused :ilnd detained
persons, protection of the /wounded and
sick and medical personnel:'and protection
of the civilian population.;
The EARL of CLANCARTY asked
Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will reconsider their
decision, implicit in their answers to two
recent Questions for Written Answer
(cols. 1347 and 1453), not to draw the
attention of the Ministry of Defence and
the Home Office to the interview on
France-Inter radio in February 1974
of the then French Minister of Defence
i
I
M. Robert Galley about unidentified
flying objects by M. Jean-Claude
Bourret which is transcribed in his
book The Crack in the Universe.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The Mini-
stry of Defence are endeavouring to obtain
The United Kingdon;l's signature of
the protocols was accoJllpanied by formal
declarations on various/ points, of which
copies have been plac,M in the Library
of the House. Almost' without exception,
these reflect made by the
United Kingdom at t11e Conference which
are already part /of the negotiating
history. The most' significant of them
concern the scope 'of application of the
protocols. First, ,as with several recent
international conventions, the Govern-
ment have comfidered it necessary to
reserve the right not to apply the protocols
in relation to Southern Rhodesia unless
and until they are in a position to ensure
that the of the protocols in
respect of tqat territory can be fully
implemented.: Secondly, we have con-
firmed the understanding upon which we
took part in.the negotiations, that the new
rules introduced by Protocol I were not
intended to·have any effect on and did not
regulate or prohibit the use of nuclear
weapons./
\
an official transcript of the interview said
to have taken place on France-Inter radio
in February 1974.
GENEVA CONVENTIONS:
ADDITIONAL PROTbCOLS
Lord BROCKWAY asked Her Majesty's
Government: /
Whether the Governme,f(t have yet
decided whether to sign /the two addi-
tional protocols to thct' Geneva Con-
ventions of 1949 whi,ch were adopted
at the Humanitariau' Law Conference
in June of this yeaq·and if he will make
a Statement. //
Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS: The
two protocols were opened for signature
on 12th December 1977. Protocol I
relates to the' protection of victims of
armed conflicts and Proto-
col II to protection of victims of non-
internatiorlal armed conflicts. Signature
of both r'rotocols on behalf of the United
Kingdofo took place on 12th December.
The/Government consider that, overall,
the protocols mark a valuable advance
in humanitarian law applicable in armed
conflicts. In Protocol I we particularly
Thirdly the provisions of Protocol I,
including that on prisoner of war status
for irregular fighters, apply only to
international armed conflict, which are
now defined by the protocol as to
include certain self-determination conflicts.
The i Government have · considered it
desirable in this connection to place
fonhally on record by means of an
intirpretative declaration their under-
standing of the meaning of the term
" conflict ", which implies a high
lt1.'el of intensity of military operations,
and their understanding of the require-
ments to be fulfilled by any national
2225 Written . {LORDS]
liberation ·movement which ·sought to
invoke the protocol. Neither in Northern
Ireland nor in any other part ofthe United
Kingdom is there a situation which meets
the laid down for the application
of· either protocol. .Nor is there :.any
terrorist organisation operating within
the United · Kingdom )Vhich fulfils :the
requirements which a national liberation
movement must meet in order to be entitled
to claim rights under Protocol J. :There is
therefore no question of any. of the pro-
visions of either_ protocol benefiting. the
IRA or .any others who may carry out
activities in peacetime. ·
The protocols will not become binding
upon the United Kingdom unless and
until the signature is ratified. The Govern-
ment intend to move towards ratification
indue course .. Legislation will be required
to implement certain provisions of Proto-
col I, as it was for the Geneva Conventions
themselves.
TOWN AND
GENERAL· nn-.r..,'T·.,..,:TO.·
. (AMENDMENT) .... .. ·.a.
: STEWART ftl)i.:.£>.!''
11
lier, M:ajest.Y's
; ... _-, . , . · .. _ ' ·[: .- . i;·
Whether they will make· a: Statement
about the Town and Country Planning
· · General · Development (Amendment)
Order 1977. ·
L· Baroness BIRK :. My honourable
friend the Secretary. of State is arranging
for the .·order to be withdrawn. The
Government will shortly be presenting to
Parliament the response to the ·Eighth
Report of the Expenditure Committee:
Planning Procedures. He intends to
consider further the ·provisions of the
general development order in the light of
reactions to that response.
House. adjourned at four
minutes before eight o'clock.
nietry of Defence,
R4 (Air),
Main Building,
Whitehall,
LONDON.
S7i1 A 2HB
1
.
. , ..... ·
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ext:-

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J a.nuary , 1 97 8
Reference A: D/s4{
.A_-ir)ri/1
1
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1
n77 'f ..
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1=1•

P.AR/106/9/AA dated 2na Ja!J.Ue.!'y, 197d. '-'-= ·

1. Rafarence .A asked fo:r infor-:;·aatj_o:J. French ?.C'ir:,i::tr•;
of Defence treatment of reports fror:1 th3 public 3.bout £'.ightin.:;s vf "
untdc.nt-i fJ.yin;; objects. In 3, I tc o8t::.i.n
a transcript of a 1974 broadcast:bn the subject.
2 •. The French authorities have now replied, a.nd I enclcse the full
text of M Robert Galley's radio intervi2w on the subject.
3. Tl
".P. ..... •

up J"u<=>t v,,..,.,.. -f'o.,.. +l1 c .... ....,,.,,.,.,.; s o_f
!-''- '-"'""' '\...1.. ..J: -..; V <;... -.J.. • fC..i..J.. ..- ...., u •
report::.d 8ncl a.s noted -your files, 1.'2.-cl:-:.in u.nchanged. -·
with or.e small excaption: the reports compiled b;;/ the .
now go e-ir:ml ta!':eo;;_slv -to the Centre Fat:;_onal d 'Etudes Sr.·atiales (C!'i2S
a:r:d tne Defence - to save time. · - ·
4. The T:tinistry of Defence overall viGwpoint on the subject rem:,;.5ns
exactly as described the A1"ti9le in "Air ActuaJi tes" ( Uctcber 1975
by Colonel Alexis, a copy of was sent to yqu.
5. Finelly, a rAcent develorment has heen the of a
small sttldy group, Lt;:..der the auspices of ClTSS a·::d chaired by
r•lo;Hl:>- th"" nGro.,···e .... l.nr<> c1es
....... _ .......... _ v---""""--- •-- ' .......... ..... - - ....... ..,. "" _ ... _ ... __
A
::<l'O"-'··•·; •••.. • 'ell ,-:,ho ......... c-P .f' tl ,.,-··r
t-, . ...., .£18. .L. 8.u . .t" .r!,,..rL- J .. ""- i..: J ..i.. • L- ..... t...-;:. .l.·1L:-J .L rC..a.. C l.'eY1C8 I OI' ...
are not yet but the title seems to me to be self-explanatory.
Bn-clc.:.:tl.re.
-•. WITH M_ RODERT FOrt THE ARHED FORCES £N
l'EBRUARY AT 2030 HOURS · - -
• Interviewer . \i\ Go --: M. ;Galley
I- Minister, you have granted France-Inter an interview which will certainly
.
be significant because it is the first time that a Minister for the Armed
Forces has agreed to speak about the problem of UFOs. Do you have information
which allows you to answer the questions which the listeners are asking,
· information which we know nothing about?
MG- Well, I don't know about that, because I have spent a necessarily
. -
relatively limited time on that question, though it is a question which I
must say has interested me. But •••• and consequently I cannot knew
everything that has been said during your broadcasts which I know certain
people in the Armed Forces Ministry follow assiduously. What I <ieeply
believe is that we must adopt a strict, open attitude to these
phenomena. A certain amount of progress·pas been made in the human race by
the fact that attempts have been made to explain the inexplicable. Well,
in these air phenomena, these visual phenomena - I say no more - that are
grouped together under the term UFOs, it is certain that there are things
which are not understood and which are at present relatively unexplained. And
I shall even say that there are things today which are unexplained or poo:;:oly
explained. In 1954 a section for considering and collecting evidence on the
appearance of UFOs was set up in the Armed Forces Ministry. I ran through a
certain number of statements and these statements developed up to 1970. Thera
are about 50. Amongst the first things \.s found a report of a personal
observation by Lt Jean Demery of the 107th Arty Brigade (?B.A.) at Villacoublay,
dated 20 November 1953. There are reports by are some report
of observatious by pilots, by personnel who are air centre heads; a fair
amount of information the concentration of which was_quite disturbing in 1954.
1 ----------
. And,: consequently, I think that the attitude or m:tnd must be ad<>Pted ..:_ --
phenomena is a quite opan attitude; that is, does not consist.
'-ox an apriori negation, as oilr ancestors in .previous centuriAs had to deny
many things which seem to us today to be perfectly elementary, whether· it be
static electricity, to take only those twc), not to mention
a certain number of phenomena connected with biolcgy. In fe.ct, all these
scientific developments consist in the fact that at a decis:i..ve moment it is

seen thatAthe 50 years beforehand absolutely nothing was known or understood
of the reality of the phenomena.
...
I- Have there been cases in which fighter aircraft - Mirages for -
have followed UFOs in France?
MG- Well, in France, after examining all the reports, I don't ·i;hink -5•h_ I
think that we had a certain number of radar observations in the 50s were
.
in Aquitaine. For 10 minutes·, a quite inexplicable and still U."'lexplained
phenomenon. Other observations on tno screen could be explained by
jamming phenomena and therefore consequently they were explained. But there
are a small number left, but a small number which are quite unexplained..
Phenomena abroad are quite well known. There are phenomena-in the US; there
is the Turin phenomenon and to reply very preci_sely to your question, the
number of statements by French military pilots on these UFOs.is relatively
BmP..ll compared ·with what one finds abroad. But all the same there are some
on record.
i- Are you in with other intrnational militarJ organisations,
,..
Minister?
I I
'
--- ------
MG- No. Since 1970 we ha·ve sent back to the all the statallients and each
there is n etat.ment something extraordinary happens, we to
send it to. them both through the pilots and through the gendarmerie.. But the
Air Force considered, before 1970, that as there was, within the framework
of its Air Defence mission, danger, you see that it is not their mission
after all to study these phenomena on the scientific level - we consider that
. that is tho role of. the National Centre for Space Studies (CNES) where people
_ sl\ch as M Poher, are carrying out a study which seems to us to be quite
interesting to But it does not come within province.
we have no direct contact! though, I repeat, we make a contribution. Every
something appears, we send it to specialist body which is working,
basically,on behalf of the nation.
I- Minister, unidentified space objects in French air space seems
to concern da!cnce?
MG- Yes, that does concern national defence and I would say that that is
why are fo!.lo'tring this question to try and see if a:n:y correlations can be
established. And I would say that, personally, I am rather interested in this
phenomena of the correlations which M Poher has between the
variations of the magnetic field and the passage of UFOs. There are a number
of relatively disturbing phenomena which may, one day, have an explanation
wllich is not an explanation of a S!)ecific flying object, which !l'..a.y be
phenomena. But for the moment, we are obliged to recognise that there is
something there which we do not understand. There is also the quite impressive
increase in visual observations - I shall not go into descriptions which your
listeners know, since many of them coincide - but the visual observations of
luminous phenomena which are sometimes s,pherical, sometimes dvoid 6tc, and
...
which are characterised by extraordinarily swift movements, all are, I
-t say, to which a certain of attention be given, but
. .
aa_Y that in the Air Force, for tile moment, they have never seemed to
come directly under air defence.
' .
I- if you were asked, for example, to nake a few of your radars. available to
a few scientists, or at least the made by the radar operators,
what would be your reply?
MG- Oh, I would reply that we have no reason not to inform air defence, if
there were. anomalies on the of the elements which defence does
not manage to explain everything, I think that air defence would be bound to
these unusual or unorthodox observations to a scientific authority
Which would be entrusted with them. That is what we do at the moment since I
have there all the reports of observations which could be, which come from the
Air Force, the gendarmerie, from all the.military authorities and we pass them
on very dirGctly.
I- Weli, you have mentioned the Gendarmerie. France Inter listeners have
already heard many reports from gendarmes, offering the good faith of witnesses
when these witnesses state, not that they have seen unidentified luminous
phenomena in the sky which can always be interpreted as something
unsubstantial, but unknown by our natural science, but much more exact
phenomena, since there are landings with traces left in the ground. And
gendarmes conclude them in favour of the good faith of the witnesses who state
they have seen, not only UFO landil;l.gs sometimes, but little creatures.
MG- Ah, well, on this matter, I shall be a great deal more cautious. But I
must say that if your listeners could see the collection of reports from the
genda1'111erie - Air Gendarmerie, mobile gendarmerie, responsible for

territorial inquiries - which have been passed on to the National Centre for
4
...
. . .
• ce Studies through us - all the documents that we bad - it is actually
disturbing. I think that the gendarmes .are serious people and that when
the make a report, they do not do it hapbazarciq,· and that there
were only one or two, you could say that the gendarmes' sincerity was suspect.
But I must say that there are a great number of gendarmes' reports which are
very varied. It should be said that when they report incidents, if you like,
which have been reported to them, few of them, but all the same some, report
phenomena at ground level, you know, changes in the ground. All thie, if you
like, is still quite fragmented. I think, to conclude on this matter, that
we must adopt an extremely open attitude of mind to all this, not put into
doubt the sincerity of people, some of whom are obviously sincere, but at the
moment it is really far too soon to draw the least conclusion.
Armed Forces Public Relations Information Service
1st Division Pario 21 February 1974
Summary - Analysis Office
Analysis Sheet of the Press Interview
Station: France Inter
Time
.
.
.
.
21 February 1974
1300 hours
Subject: Interview with M Galley on UFOs.
Jean-Claude Bourret, for the first time a member of the government is breaking
tho of silence, a silence which politicians assume when the subject
under discussion is UFOs, in other words, flying saucers:
M Robert Galley
Actually the Minister responsible for National Defence, that is, a man who
knows the problems of air defence since concern air defence first of all,
. . .
• agreed to talk and this is in fact·. the first time that a Minister for
.• e Armed Fo;ces has on this problem of UFOss We shall broadcast the
whole of this interview this evening at 2030 hoUrs iri the. programme
"No Panic". But in this 1300 hours news, we wanted to give you a very short
from this interview and you will see now, if M Galley speaks, it is
not to "knock down" the problem of UFOs.
M Robert Galley:
"!t is true that there are things which are not understood and which are at
present relatively unexplained, and I would even say that it is irrefutable
that there are things today which are unexplained or poorly explained. In 1954
a section for considering and collecting evidence on these appearances of
UFOs was set up in the Armed. Forces Ministry. I have run through a certain
number of statements there and these statements developed up to 1970. There
are about 50.
11
Jean•Claude Bourret
"Minister, aircraft pilots, military radar operators have seen UFOs, but it
illay be imas'ined that these are non-substantial air phenomena. Well, there
are witnesses who state that they have seen UFOa land, who state that they have
seen little creatures near these UFOs, little humanoid creatures. And your
gendarmes, Minister, who have made inquiries, conclude in favour of the
fiincerity of the witnesses. What do you think of that'?"
1i..!!2Eart Galley
"Well, if you like, in this matter, I would be a great deal more cautious
but I must say that if the listeners could see the collection.of reports from
the gendarmerie
9
air gendarmerie, mobile gendarmerie, gendarmerie responsible
for territorial inquiries, which have been handed over to the CNES by us, all
the dvCl.'ments that we il.ad. It is actually rather disturbing. I think tbe.t the
enda..'"mea th?Y cake a report, the g-1ndarmes do ·•·
.t do it haphazardly: and if there were only one or two, you could aa.y tbat
the gendarmes' sincerity waG suspect. But I must say that there is a great
number of gendarmes' reports which are very varied, it be said. Some-
times they relate facts, if you like, vhich··bave been reported to tl:-.em, few
of them but al.l the same some talk of phenomena at ground level,· know
1
of
changes in the ground, all this, if you like, is still quite fragmentary. I
think, to conclude if you like in this matter, that we must adopt an extremely
open attitude of mind to all this, not put in doubt the sincerity of people,
soma of whom are obviously sincere, but at the it is really far too
soon to draw the least conclu13ion."
Yves Mourousi
I trould remind you that you will be able to hear the whole of this interview
this ev:ning at 2030 hou,..s in, the "No Panic" on France Inter.
MOD Ling Service
GLS/2997
VJR
...
7 .
_,
·- "· ., ··:
, • FRmCH AIR FORCE VERSUS THE
(5 Jlz Lt Col G:ton Alexis· --
Since last year, the specialist and press, radio :and televisio!l netwrks
have been paying an increasing amount of attention to UFOs. Certainly, public
interest in this subject has not yet reached the level of 1954, which caused
two l-iPs, Messrs Jean Nocher and Leotard, to put a written q-aestion before the
Secretary-of State for the Armed Forces, on October 22, concerning the role
o.f' tho armed forces in this area. It is true that Mr Galley, the the%!.
Minister of Defence, recalled it clearly at his interview on
In view of the currency of· the however, it seems useful tc recall
the role of the air force in this matten to present the UFO dossier held by
thea and to summarize the various theories and counter-tbeorie& which in
.France.

At the end of the last world war, a scientific bureau was set up within the
Air Ministry to follow the development of aero-apace and technologies
and the progress in the knowledge of the aero-terestrial and spatial envh-onment
in which aircraft and satellitas have their It has since become a fore-
casting and development bureau but its roles have not changed. In 1951, when
the wave of statements on the appearance o! "mysterious heavenly objects''
increased in volume in France, this bureau, on its O'l.'n initiative, opened
dossier on the subject in order better to appreciate the and location of
these manifestations in French airspace.
In 1954, the Secretary of State foy: the Armed Forces asked the air force to follow
up this question on an official basis from that time on.
An Instruction !rom the air force eta£! put decision iuto conerete form.
All high. commands were asked to communicate to the "air" scientific .bureau all ·
evidence of U?Oa on their territory.
.. . . .
•• · ... roli of air force in this &.rea is vory clearly set C'".lt. The role of
-_. -". .

·air force staff consists solely in estimating whether certarh information
, amongst the evidence that they receive is likely. to affect national defence;·
this is not, in fact so, as we shall shor-tly see.
It is therefore clear that it is not within their province to make any state-
menta on the origin of' such a strange phenomenon, nor to question the veracity
of observations communicated to them officially, either by police or by
territorial or operational high commands.
;a.
However, it is their task, whenever possible, to correlate there observations
with ureal aero-space phenomena" which, under given atmospheric conditionS
might very easily be interpreted by non-specialized observers as strange
phenomena •
.A.ftc:- of dossiers from the' tinat:i.onal defence" angle, they are
sent to the CNES (National Centre for space studies) to be examined scienti-
fically.
In 1976, study of reports recorded over 25 yeara by the air force has only
enabled the following facts to be brought to light, from two points of
"National deience" 'Point of View
No acts of aggression, either against persons or property, civilian or military,
have been detected.
Tnese strange manifestations do not alter the geo-physical balance of the
terrestrial environment. No atmospheric disturbcm.ce was detected after they
had passed.
Air.defence systems (radar and combat aircraft), which ensure continuous air
cover the national territory, anu also meteorological department radars,
do not
11
Vlsualize" UFOs in of cases.
j),
.. 'II
. '
..
\
e
To -de.te, none of the observe::-s has succeeded either in taking photographs
() UFOs landed. on the ground, with or without occupants, or in recovering
pieces of such objects.
Apart from some traces seen or. the ground, no object bas been reported or
recovered by observers, which would enable us to prove the material existence
. of UFOs.
Scientific point of View
It would be pointles·s to believe tbat observation of unidentified space ,...
phenomena is the prerogative of our civilization and that it dates back only
to the start of this century. The first observations of these :nanifestaions
which are not based on the subjective interpretations of
11
Ufologists
11
{
1
)
date back to the first known writings. The
11
Ufologists
11
thillk that certain
writings, drawlL.go o.nd sculptures, particUla::-ly thoBe of_ the South American
civilizations make it possible to date these manifestations back to the
origin of primitive civilizations.
as in the past, this phenomenon is only very rarely revealed by
scientific instruments, whilst visual observations abound. Therefore, in
order to achieve greater objectivity, we shall not waste our time in giving a
resume of a:n:y one sighting, but we shall present the overall aspect of. the
phenomenon as it can be deduced from the work of the CNES, where Mr Jean-claude
Poher, Assistant Head of the scientific division, is the link with
the airforce in of .the. study of these strange phenomena.
Sampling of the population of French observers
The of French observers by occupation can be summarized as follow8.
It· shows that no one privileged social exists in this sphere:
• astronooers· : .5%
technicians :
(1). Name given to persons specializing stUdy of UFOs. In 1:1umber :;
of_ 1975, "Armiees

an "'·
·· ' •·•·• J. :,;
..
• researchers ; 5%
* Civilian and military
pilots : 10 (of whom less
· than 1% for military
pilots)
Engineers : 12%
• Military personnel (of whom less
than 1.» f9r military air defence
controllers).
0
worlanen 15%
farmers 15%
shepherds'5%
In other observations mads by civilian and military pilots,
personnel a.n.d engineers are clearly higher. On the other band they are less
numerous among workmen, technicians and farmers.
Concerning the ages of the observers, the following distribution is noted,
also identir;al with the distribution noted in other countries and seemingly
proportional to the age-groups of the French population:
10% less than 13 years old
18% between 13 and 20
bebween 21 and 59
8% over 6o
Having made the acquaintance of the observers, questions must be raised
concerning the value of their observations and the credibili+.y to be afforded
to them.
In the vast majority of cases it can be said that the observers were quite
sincere; thair identity was known in three of the cases. Sinco 1954,
those observations have been the subject of reports made by the police to the
Air force staff.
As a general rule, observations were made by more one adult.
Finally, to judge from the distribution of observers .:nrer a map of France Je
see that the number of observations·is (fortuitously or otherwise) proportional
to the density of the population •
. We also note a clear improvement in the description of the llhen
it is a question of:amlysing this information and, especial,ly', it
...
.
.h "know events" in the of aero-space
Ctails take on considerable significance.
Analysis of observations
or physics the smallest
Correlations made at different levels enable.it to be said that in about
of cases, "Strange" observations are any possible doubt, due to known
. aero-space phenonena. They show from the evidence that the observer bas indeed
..
and observed accurately a phenooenon that was strange to him, but which
exists in reality on the basis of trds description his statement can be
correlated with aero-spatial or physical
11
events
11
which have indeed occurred
at the site of the observation and at the stated time: it is therefore improbable
that the- remaining unexplained cases &.ilould be pure invention.
Analysis of observations
For the in France only unexplained operations of the same
phenomenon by at least two adults have been retained for scientific analysis.
The volume of observations thus retained for period 1951-1975 is about 150
cases, which represent 8% of the initial volume of observations. The following
information may be drawn from these:
DURATION OF OBSERVATION
WEATHER CONDITIONS I DISTANCE
1 HOUR- 1 DAY

RAINY OR GREATER THAN 3Kl1 3&%
20 MIN - 59 MIN 1.5% SNO'w'Y

1 - 19 I-liN 41%
IJJ'II CLOUD
12% 1- 3 KM
10 SEC - 1 MIN

SKY COVERED WITH
900 - 15<An
2.5""
HIGH CLOUD
1J/6
20m - 1Q:n :%
LESS THAN 10 SEC
THICK CLOUD
22S& ..
LESS THAN 10m

CLEAR SKY

&.
·CONDITIONS m \-IHICH OBSERVATIONS MADi.:
Distribution of twenty' cases of "landings" reported, bearing in mind that DO
graph of these particUlar cases exists:
. ' . '

• Two· cases near an urban are-a
• Six cases near isolated dwellings.
• Twelve cases in an isolated region without any dwellings.
Of these twenty cases, only eight mention traces of imprints ill the gt•ound.
Characteristics of the phenomenon
The least that can be said is that the form of the phenomena observed, their
dimensions,' colou.rsetc, are of the most variable, as can be j'ldged fromthe
following tables.
-
FORM COLOUR
NATURE OF LUMINOSITY I
VARIOUS

FIXED BUW VERY VARIOUS 1'?% VARIOUS

PIN-POINTS
9%
CHANGING
1'7%
NON LUMINOUS
1%


METALLI<;
li'i't GLOWING 1CY.A)
'
OVOID 14% WHITE 17% BRIGHT 1,5%
CIGAR SHAPE, CYLINDER
1fa
BRILLIANT 18%
ROUND, CIRCULAR, RED
16%
LUMINOUS
SPmmiCAL
30%
DISCS 1$
I r

Dimensions
Here again we find a very wide range of data •. Each. case seems to be a special
case. In 38.64% t:r..ere is no information. In there is an apparent
which cannot be restituted because of inaccuracy over distance. In
of cases, the diameter is of the order of 1 meter. In 4.5PJ of cases, of the
order of 7 to 10 meters. In the other cases it varies between 1 meter and 70 meters.
Speed and traJ.:ectoq
...
speed variation observed inthe movements of the phenomena observed can be
. .
explained by the fact it corresponds to portions of the trajectory which are

.
identical,. as the following shows:
c
SPEED OF MOVEl-iENT TRAJECTORY
.
SUPERSONIC 16%
STRAIGHT LINE
3.5%
FAST (LIKE AIRCRAFT)
*
SUCCESSIVELY AND
)
ABNORMAL TRAJECTORIES (STOPS,
FAST
)
42% ARABESQUES /jrrjJ DISAPPEARANCE)
45%
sww 22% LANDING OR
MOTIONLESS 11% STATIONARY "PHASE" 20J'
...
*This is a literal translation of the words the text. It is difficult to knoM
what the writer means by
11
successivement mobile et rapidfl - unless "mobile"
(moving} is, in fact, a misprint for "immobile" (motionless) whereupon the entry
would read "successively motionless and fast" which would make slightly better
sense.
Emissions observed
.•
i
SOUND TFERHAL EFFECTS
·LWJ:NOtJSAND THERMAL-
SMELL
EFFECTS
,
VA..tUOUS NOISES 146 NO EFFECT LUMINOUS ".'AR!OUS
OBSERVED 9?.2716 PARALYSING RAY 0.46% SMEL!.S
WHISTLING 1,;"% EFFEv"'T CORRELATION NONE 98.6'-1%
OBSERVED 1.37% COLOUR
SPEED
HUNMING

EFFECT WITE 1 .. 3$}6 NONE 92.o8%
TRACES

SILENCE I ?CJ;6·
I
..
Eff9cts on observers and various effects
In France, apart the effect of surprise, only minor effects were recorded
on observers who reported on their observations to the police. None of them was
b7 his experience nor underwent any psychological change.
To date, none of them claims to have received a "mission" or has created any
ideological group basad on the claim that .he is the prophetic mouthpiece of the
11
appar1tion
11

Similarly domestic animals seem only slightly disturbed by the phenome.:Wm.
. . .. . . . . .
'
...
• . ...
'only or cases vas a .mani testation of rear observed.
Summaries of effects obtained:
EFFECTS ON HUMAN BEINGS
TRACES OF SKIN DISEASt
1
9F
INDETERMINABLE ORIGIN
HEADACHES, LOS3 OF MEMORY
TEMPORARY PARALYSIS OR
FAINTING IN THE PRESENCE
OF THE PHENOl·!ENON
DEATH, NAUSEA, RAPES,
ASSAULTS
0.4$%
2. 7-,;6
. tmNE
8.18)t
VARIOUS EFFECTS
FAILURE OF ENGINE WITH
ELECTRICAL IGNITION
EXTENDED ACTION ON VEGErATION
STRONl MECHANICAL ACTIOn
RADIO OR TV INTERFERENCE,
TOl'AL RADIO CUT-OUT,
ELECTRICITY FAILUR.E ON
PUBLIC SUPPLY, P.ADJ;Q-
ACTIVITY
IMPOSSIBLE TO ACT OF ONES OWN
1
.... ·
vou.riON 1 ..

1.82%
0.4$%
·.
NONE
( 1) ALTHOUGH CERTAIN DOCTORS THINK THESE PHENOMENA COULD BE CAUSED BY
STRONG EMOTIONAL REACTIONS.
Distribution of observations in time
Since 1951, a certain periodicity has been recorded in the large-scale appearance
of the phenomena, with clearly marked peaks in.1954, 1964, 1967 and 1975. How-
scientific reseax·chers have not yet been able to find any
£Jpatial occurrence in the universe that corresponds to this "pe::-iodici ty". Only
one piece of data could be put forward by Mr Poher! seems to exist a
correlation between UFO observations and temporary abnormal fluctuations in the
earth's magnetic field.
At the overall level of the phenomenon, only the following points can therefore
be put .forward:
...
Observations be suspect since in more than of cases, they can be
. '·
correlated. with aero-space or physical "events" ..
8
I
e
describing a phenomenon that has really
jf only 8% of are
observed and J.S unknown.
The variety of characteristics of the phenomenon is such that it is possible
at present to formulate a scientific theory its nature
or origin (physical or otherwise\• it also enables us to state thi.lt this phenomenon
is not result of human technology.
Its tangible effects on human beings are without danger.
Given the present state of our knowledge, it seems difficult to conclud.e
otherwise than by confirming that science is incapable in this area. This
phenomenon cannot, at prese:ct, be analysed by means of known measuring instruments
and, in a word, it is only thanks to the accumulation of observationsdescribing
·not only this phenomenon but also all the physical data regarding the environment
that-researchers may one have the good fortune to discover the parameters
that will enable them to give it a mo1·;,.; satisfactory interpretation. Whi.l:st
maintaining an open mind, we must restrain ourselves from hasty conclusions
regarding the nature and origin of the phenomenon and accept the fact that this
problem. like so many others, remains susJ?ended in space.
Translations of picture captions
(Pictures are numbered in pencil on the
(1) One of the photographs in the world to retain its mystery: a photograph
taken on January 16th 1968 opposite the island of Trinidad (Atlantic Ocean) in
the presence of geophysical 3pecialists.
{2) A flying saucer around the Eiffel Tower? In fact it is only a successful
piece of faking: the brilliant disk is the reflection of·a lamp in the window
...
through ·which the photograph was taken from a room in the Palais de Chaillot.
(3) Identified UFOs: Centicular clouds.
•.
· ....
. . .
·. .
.·.
Un des rares clichls 1111 monde a gartler
et'core un mystire : photo prise, le 16
Janvier I9S8, face cl l't/e Trinidad
(oc.!cm Atlantique), en prlsence de
spi< lalistes de glophysique.
(Photo Co..-les Education Corporation,
Nel<' Y<>rk, gracirusetnent communiqule
par le G.E.P.A.).
aux !ranches d'age de Ia population
:
• 10 ont moins de 13 ans,
• 18 % sont ages de 13 ansa 20 ans,
• 64 sont ages de 2: a 59 ans,
• 8 % oat plus de 60 ans.
Ayant fait connaissance avec les
temoin•, il cor.vient de .s'intcrroger sur
la valeur de leurs temoignages ct sur
Ia credibilitc! a leur accorder.
D-..ns Ia grande majcrite des
cas, on peut dire <t,Ue IC!I temoins sont
de bonne foi, leur tdentite est dans les
trois quarts des ca:; connue. Depuis
1954 ces temoignages font !'objet d'un
raprort de gendarmerie adresse a l'etat·
maJor de l'armt!e de l'air.
En regie gener::le, les ob;ervations
sont effectuecs par plus de d :ux per·
sonnes adultes.
Entin, si l'on en jugc pa.r Ia r.!parti-
-
sur un mcme ph-!nolt'ene p.;r :11
moms deu't • pers,:mnes adultcs. ;_,
volume '!<:? temoignages ainsi rctcn"
pcu_r Ia pen ode \95 1·19iS est de 1 >o , .. ,,
cnv:ron,. reJ?n!senk 8 t.- tk
volume tntt.al d:s
9n peut en tircr h.as
: ..
... It's: ob
buns ont -:If: efl'.:ct,J..:ts :
-
I Durie de l'cl>senaliOil Conditi'lns
Di-stan·
'
:j
Dclhllj 12 'Y.
15
Temp> de pluie ou
icurc a 3 .
Dc20mnl59mn de ncige 3 •;.:
De 1419 mn 41 Cicl bas
De 10 5ee. a I mn 18 9. Clcl ;Irs
nuages en allitude
1l% De 1 a 3 km
9f<,
p .,j
:S •:'
Moins de 10 sec. 12% Nuagcs
Cic: clair
tion des temoins sur une carte de
France, on constatc que le nombre
tcmoignages est (fortuitement ou non)
pr'?portionnel a Ia densite de Ia popu·
latlon.
On note par ailleurs une neUe
lioration dans Ia desr.ription du phe·
nomene. Des lors qu'il s'agit d'explui-
ter ces renseignerr.enh notamment
de les correler avec des « e>cnemcnB
connus » aerospatiaux ou physiques,
moindres details comptr.nt e'lormc-
mc.ilt.
L'aoalyse des temoignages
Les correlations faites aux differents
echelons permet•cnt de dire que dans,
IJ Y. De 211 10 I
22 :\ tO
so%
---
n 3 •· I
m 7
----'
Repartition ,i,,:;t -.< d'at:crrio;.
» tn ra!Jp.:lant ou'i:
D &'-I<Une ph•>lo de ces us pirti.
:
• deux c.,s pre' d'o ne lOne urb,.;r.:
• six cas pres i-;.,ke'\.'
• douze cas dan-:s t:r,e s..:n.
h•bitation.
Parmi ccs cas h..:h. srukrnr:nr.
t:ace:.
divcrscs sur 1.: sol.
Carac:cristiques pMnoll'cne
Le moins qu'or.puisse e't qu,
Ia forme des ph·:tlomer.e< obs :n.:s.
leurs l..:u!s etc
sont des plus com me oro pev
en juger par t"t·le.1ux :
Forme Couleur Nature ir.: Ia • !
14% Fixes mais tres
!4 j·..i.
dio.•erses
Ponctuclles
9 .,
Changcant:s ,.
Coupole J% Metallique
O·;oJdes 14 Blanc
Ci!!3res cylindres 14 Orange
R<'ndes. drculaires, Rouge
en boule
30 •.
Di\Ques 16 9.
environ 80 % de5 c(':s, les cbservations
« Ctranses » sont, s:1ns do!Jte
possible, dues a des aero·
sp,ltiaux connus. El!es Mrnontren: i
I' evidence que le temoin a bien observe
BV.:C precisron U!\ etmng-.
pour lui mais q-ai e:u.te puis·
(jU'il partir de cettc descript'')n on peut
SeS diteS des « CVcne-
MCOlS » ou phys;ques ·1lli
se sont bien deroulcs :es lieux de
l'obsel\ation II il
alors improbable les cas restant;
inexpliqt1ts soient pu!'emen: inv:n·6s.
L 'expJoitaticn
Par souci er. :'r:1nce. •
ne sent rt:tc:1ues poL r un e.<a,n;:n sril!n-
t.ifique que les obse! \·atbnJ ine.<pliq:u'es
c-- des
Supersor.iques
(.:ommc:. dt.:s a.vicns)
i1%
Succes::,ivem.rnt rr.ohiles et 1.4
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Dans 38,64 il n':'i'te pas d'ir.for
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diam<tre :tppHCOt 'lUi n•! Jl"!ll J'O
etre en raison de
sur la di-i'ance-. D.ms J de:-
le di.J.mCtre c.k t (."'drc de un rn,
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a Cix me:re;;. Dal: h:s :n:!i"C'S t";t.i. '
varie c!e a -\.II X ... t!":
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pcut par k fa
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.....
et thermiques
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12%
observe 97,27% lumiucux d;verses 1,36%
paralysant
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-----
Eifel' •;ur lo:s tcmoons effcts dh·crs
En FrHn<e, l'elfet d.: surprise mis
a part on ne sur Ics t:!moins
qo.;i <>nl fati pa: l de kurs observatio•ls
t Ia g:.:udarmcril·. q\.e ,le;; erl"eb
1 n"a Cte par
du phCnomenc n·a vu
son p·.)·Chisme taodilie.
A <e jour, a:Jcun d'eux ne pretend
a voir « vn:.! mission » et n ·a crCC ..
un se pretcndant
etre l'bnanaiion prcph<!tique de I'« ap-
pari!il.Jil n.
De mCme. les an:ra:tux
sem!olent pe:t par le pheno-
Dans 5.4t s!ulement des cas;
une mailife!staticn lie fcayeur est r.ons·
tat(c.
des cf.'ds cons:atcs:
Repartition des oboervatinns dans Je
temps
Depuis 1951, on constate une cer-
!*riod!cite dans !'apparition mas-
••ve phenomenes avec des point.:s
n<tlement marquees en 1954, 19o-l
1967 et 1975. '
. , Mais les scientifiques
11 ont p.1 encore tro .. ver de conjonc-
ture spatiale particuliere de I'Uni,·ers
qui corresponde a cette " periodicite ».
Seu!e une donnee a pu etre en
evidence par M. Poher : il semble
cxister unc correlation entre les obser-
v;;tions d'O.V.N.I. et ties Ouctuaticns
• anonnale:; du champ
mogncllque terreslrc.
Au niveau global du phcnonu!r.e,
on. ne peul done retenir (\UC les points
stuvants :
F.ff<l'_!'!! • • • • f
t • l!e :a pcau Mise en panne crun moteur a
I S..'r.s I"\Jil p'....!iSc! f!eter· allumage electrique
i rn1ner ;·crig.:;c (I) 1.36 }. Action prolongee SLir Ia vCgCta-
! mi-moire 0.46 lion
I
... ie t'!nl':-t llU Cva- r\.;tion mkanique
ncui;.::t.fl'.;;l"!t du Parasit::s radio ou TV. coo pure
• • 2.73 radio panne
1.82 ".;.
r<!'Jr I !i.l8 % a..:tivitC
J"cOCi; .a\. sa
,-oronrC I 1.82
r..!ant
I
I \ inb. ot:l.I"CS.!i-iOn5 nfaret sur le rC--cau public. radio-
qui! ttt::i'\Cnt qtae Ce'\ peu"'ent lltR rar
l EmvtiJ:I.
2:1
- les temoig,lages ne sus-
puisqce dan• plas d·! 80 %
des cas on peut Jes cornH-!r avec
des (( evenentents )) aerospatiaux ou
physiques;
- dans 8 %des cas environ les temoins
decrivcnt un pho!nomcne
observe et inconnu:
- Ia diversitc des earacteristiques du
phenomene .-st telle qu'il n'est prc-
sentement possible d'e!aborer
une theorie scientitique rigourcuse
a sa nature ou son \lrigine
(physique ou autre); elle •
cgalemcut d 'affirmer que ce pheno-
mcne n 'est pas le fait d 'une techne>-
logie humaone;
- eHi:ts tangibles sur fa• etres
hamains ct • s<:>nt
sans dange:.
*
* *
En l'Ctat acru'!l de nos conn;tis.otanres,
il st'mbk difficiie de conclure •
qa'en cons:atant de Ia
sdence ce d•>maiue. Ce s·hen'l-
mCne nc prCscntcment Ctre
analyse :i .Je mesure
connus. ce n'est en dctin'tive que grace
a l'acchmulation de tcmoignages decri-
vant d'une non seuleJ11ent
le phenomene, encore tout·!s les
physiques de 1\:nvinmnement,
que les chen:heurs pet:t·Ct:-e
un jour Et\"oir Ia chance de d.!c<•uv:-ir
k< •lui r.onott;oot de
mieux J"interprCter.
Tout en faisant preuve d·linc:: giandc
ouverture d'espnt. il faut se ·gardor <!e
condusions h.icives a la nltme
eta l'originc du ph.:no:mln-. el adn:ett;e
qu·actudlement le probleme re;te pose
e,>mme d'autr<;s dans le dor.taine
spatial. •
Main Building Wi;ii:c:1c:dl
Telephone 01-218 (Dirc::t Dialling)
Oi -218 SOOO .
Britich E:n'baosy
,5, Rue du Faubourg
St IIono:::-e
Paris (8e)
SVV1A 2HB
Your rcfere.rico
Our reference
. D/S4(Air)B/l.
Date
13 1977
\
1. You probo.bly tha.t the Hinistry of Defenco receives quite n
considero.blc correspo.adencc on the subject of Unidentified Flyi:1g
Objects including details of
11
sightingu
11
• \:Fe t-311 the public that we
.... :,:
not the resources to a full scientific ir.to these
phcnor'ler:.a although we bring the reportu to the attention of the S!JOCialist
staffo of the D-3partmcn.t to r:.a.k.e sure that the objects thought: to have b&en
seen no bearin,.j on the n3.t.ional 'de do not pl·es!J the
iuvcstisation to "i.;he point of positive· iudentificc.tion. but oi the
11
ll'lidcatified" object::; are in fren: U:."1.usual angleo or
v.nder unusual co:!ldi tio!!s.
· 2. As you will oee from the enclosed extracts free a number
of queo',ions have boen in the House of Lord£; in tha last few days
concerning an interview whic!l. l!onsieur l:.obert G<Uloy
9
tne ion:;er French
Hinistcr of Defsncc is said to have given on Franco--inter radiry on
· 21 19711-. There are also references to tho !-I3.tional :for
Space Studies which it; said to·have set up a sectio.n uuC.er the d.il·ection
of J.1onsieur Claude Po.h Qr to study objects.
3., A member of the puolic \'trote to HOD nbout tl:c alleged :::-adic interview
last year nnd l:hcn. S4(Air) consulted your staff by telephone in June 1976 tre
formed th'3 ir.:1pression that the J:rench Go"tel'r'..ment hsd not emba:::-ked ol": any
pv.rticular initi.:.tive in tni;3 A note C!l. c•ur files nt the
tine r.mggo<3ta thnt French practice is as
a. reports the public go in the first to the
· Gendartwrie r:llo if nccesssr:r intcr;.·iew nnd take
atatcmcnts
b. The Gendarw::::rie en the reyorts to the Fre::1ch Hinistry
of ]);ft.nce 'r!ho study tho :r.ilit:ary b;,·
.. r:'.rl ,_!''::; ...

s .. ! r" ,.....,
scicntifj c aspects \:hich rJ.J.:.!' hnvc n bcariv..g on mili ta!-y
affairs.
e
e
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT. I
c.. From the Defence 1·1inistry the reports go to a Government
Organisation k:lO't:·n as. the Centre d'Etude Spatial.
d. The reports are also fed into a computer so that they can,
be'hddcd tp the statistics of the problem
11

Ue were also informed that
11
so far the military have never found anything
of nature from the sightings
9
nor have scientists been
able tu explain the phenomena". . ·
...
4. It is not unlikely that there 'irlill be further Parliamentary Questions
about UFos especially as the subject depated recently in the United Nations
and I have been asked to the follO\'Iing information:
a. a transcript of the bro.:1.dcast said to have beeh made by
1-!r .Galley in 1974. Son1e of the letters we have received allege
. that
11
the French Air Hinistcr officially confirmed that ao-called
flying saucers
b. the ·views of the French Hinistry of Defence really are
on the subject of unidentified flying objects- confirmation
that the procedu1·e as outlined at para 3 aboe is c.till fullo·.oted
when reports of UFOs are received from the public.
c. \ihat the nature of the is at the Centre
liationalc d'Etude Suat"ial illld \thether these studiea are Clltl-
ductcd under the di;,1ction of Honsieur Claude Porter.
5o I should be most grateful for y0ur comments as Goon as convenient please.
2
"'i''



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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I ' 0
Mol
..
. · ..•. ··:·· .
. ·
t-f-e.v..
Lo:rds question forv:ard8d :for necessary actj_cn - dl:v.ft
note
. · Please return to RoOJn 6332 by •: •: :5 f·'1-\ • Qli'\ .l;>.Yhc.t..

\)'..: .
,· ..
\ __ _, -
_ M.3
PS/._US cf S(RAP) -·through DUS(Air)
•1

US of S (RAFys 'i-
PRIVATE
... ·
This t'FO question by the Earl o:t Clancarty relates·- to
two he put down in December. The Earl, who succeeded
has written many books UFOs and a Vice ·President of the
British -UFO Research Asscci"ation; he· seeking a Lords de,bate
on UJ:,Os. There is no cha.rJce ·of his being convinced by NOD
or by anyone elsa
1
s f-or that matter.
a .., o • • •.. • : • ,._ •
. - .
---
: .
• .... .,, ,.o• o
. -·
. ; : .-·'
..
.· ....
.. -
.. · ..
3 March 1978
;-:
--
ANSWER
To ask Her r.Iajesty•s Government
whether since their Jast reply
(Official Report;·1st December,
col. 1453) they have now.obtained
the official transcript of the· .
broadcast on France-Inter radio
station, February 1974, when the
then French lJti.nister Defence,
Mons;eur Robert Galley, was inter-
viewed by Jean-Claude Bourret
about unidentified flying objects.
The I•ti.nistry of Defence no'\'T has the official transcript of
M C-alley's broadca::Jt in in it indicates the
.
existence of a threat to the Kingdom •
..
is a sequol to those put by the Earl of
15th December (PQ 7343B and PQ 7456B)
. ··r
that there was no record of r.r Galley's statement
eavouring to obtain an official transcript.'
2. _. ·The' official transcript has been provided by the RAF Air Attache
·

ill' Paris who has also confirmed the vi err of French £.1inifriiry of
.. , .. :·· . . . .. • ,
Defence on the of unidentified Flying Objects (See Annexes A-D).
3. The key points in M Galley's statement at B are that:-
,_
a. there are things about UFOs which are not understood
and have not been explained.
b. ''\•le must adopt an extremely open attitude of mind to
this, not put into doubt the sincerity of pecple
(reporting ill'Os) •••••• but at the mottent it is really
far too soon to draw the least conclusion" •
.
4. In view of the French Ministry ·of Defence (&1nex C) may be
emnmarised as follo1-rs:-
a. "The role of the Air Force staff consists in
estimating whether certain information amongst the
evidence they receive is likely to affect national
defence: this is not in fact so •••••• No acts of
aggression. either against persons or property, civilian
or military, have been detected".
b. "The phenomena cannot, at present, be analysed by means
of known measuring instruments •••••• maintaining
an open we must restrain ourselves from hasty
conclusions regarding the nature and origin of the
phenomenon and accept the fact that this problem, like
many others, remains in space".
5. These statements are not significantly different :from the line
taken by NOD. 'tle have been telling Parliament and the general public
for years tha·i; do not dismiss the possibility that intelligent life
could exist· in O"J.tther space but r.ve· have not the to
investigate the nature of Flying Objects.
which are received in HOD referredcto
for our Air defences to make sure that
on the security of the country. No conVincing
'emerged to date that UFOs ·actually exist·or defence
... ... ·. Many reports turn out to have commonplace explanations,
the most common being aircraft or aircraft lights seen under unusual.
, conditions. The cause of some sightings has not been positively
identified but the reports often lack essential detail. We have
recently reviewed our policy on UFOs with Head of DI 54, who confirm
that it is reasonable to confine our enquiries to the defence
implications and that the exclusion of any investigation beyond this
for MOD is not considered justified.
6. There has been a series of articles on UFOs in the Daily Express
recently, although these seem to be linked with publicity for the multi
million pound commercial film iiClose Encounters of the Third Kind"
which is shortly to be released. The NeHs of 23 February 1978
carl .. ied a report about lights which :folloued a young housewife home
adding that "The EaTl of Clancarty, a UFO expe:rt, believes the lights
may those of a spacecraft sent to spy on us by an unknown
civilisation from another planet. ••••• He is currently trying to
get a House of Lords debate on UFOs and -.;·r...,nts an international

investigation". This intention has been clocu.mented in the 'No Day
Named' section of the Lords' Order Paper for 28 February.
7. The book, t'The Crack in the Universe" w·hich the Earl of Clancarty
referred t0 in his question of 14 December 1977 contains an OOC\1-rate
translation of M Robert Galley's broadcast in 1974. It
introduces the transcript quite fairly (on page 75) as an interview
which gave the Fdnister the opportunity to declare that "there are
phenomena l'lhich are unexplained". The blurb on the dust cover,
however, has M Galley freely admitting that UFOs exist and that they
are a serious problem.
. ..

EXTRACT FROM
HOUSE OF LORDS
OfFICIAL REPORT
· oral'
Vol Col writ
DATED ·s
... •.• ....
......
lJNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECfS
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked Her
Majesty's Government:
Whether since their last reply (Official
Report, 1st December, col. 1453) they
have now obtained the official transcript
of the broadcast on France-Inter radio
station, February 1974, when the then
French Minister of Defence, Monsieur
Robert Galley, was interviewed by
Jean-Claude Bourret about unidentified
flying objects.
Lord WINTERBOTTOM: The
Ministry of Defence now has the official
transcript of M. Galley's broadcast
1974. Nothing in it indicates the existence ·
of a threat to the United Kingdom.
· ... ··_
LOuSE MINUTE
Dl BCR 10/8/3
1 November 2002
DAS - LA- Ops and Pol
Copy to:
Head of DISSY
DISSb
REQUEST FROM DR CLARKE - HOUSE OF LORDS DEBATE - 18 January 1979
1 . You forwarded a copy of Dr Clarke's letter of 7 October asking whether the DIS had
retained any of the papers relating to the House of Lords debate on UFOS which took place
on 18 January 1979.
2. We have located the advice that S4(Air) provided to US of S and an early copy of the
draft speech. I hope that this is helpful.
Dl BCRCG 4
~ C 4 )
Attached: Copies of enclosures 1/1, 1/2,1/3,1/4 from file Dl55/1 08/15/1 part 32.
1
-
0
• LOOSE MINUTE
D/S4 (Air) /8/3
DI55--

Copy tp: ACS(G)(RAF)
UFOs - DEBATE IN THE LORDS
I enclose a first draft of a proposed concluding speech
Lord Strabolgi in the Lords'' debate.
... ,(. ; ,• '.
2. The draft tries to take account of the points made to us
on Thursday by Lord Strabolgi. However, on starting to re-
read the Earl of Clancarty's book 'MYsterious Visitors' I
have appreciated more fully how heavily the Earl has hedged
his bets about space travel: indeed he suggests that the 'sky !
people' are 'paranormal' and come from •another space/time ll
dimension•. I do not recommend trying to track the Earl through
other dimensions, and suggest we stick to the bare essentials f
that we proposed to Lord Strabolgi - that there are of i
phenomena, that there are perfectly sensible explanations for {
them, and that the explanations offered by ufology are and !
prove idiotic under critical examination.
). I would be grateful for any recent recorded cases to cover
the parts of para 6; otherwise I shall draw on the Condon Report
and Klass (the anti-UFO investigator).
4. Clancarty is likely to produce some
1
documented
1
and fully
cases•. I would like to be able to demolish one
as an I have provisionally chosen the disappearance
of the Battalion at Gallipoli, which Clancartry quotes
in one of his books: Hd of Army Historical Branch says that this
is a •regular•, about which the facta can be produced.
5. I would be grateful fer comments, criticisms and additional
arguments or cases. At this stage I am particularly anxious to
know whether you agre'e to the main line of arguments. Because
time is short I would be grateful for telephone comments.
6. The present draft'is about 2,000 words, around 15 minutes.
7. I have copied this minute to ACS(G)(RAF), and I be
grateful for his comments on the general line of
18 December 1978 r--------
e
UFOs - DRAFT CLOSING ADDRESS
There are three erains of truth upon \'Thich the e;r8at
myth of ufoloe;y is built.
FIRST:
SECOND:
THIRD:
life could exist elsewhere in the
universe. With 100,000 million stars in our own
galaxy alone, it is probable that there are many
planets capable of supporting life.
the technical difficul·:ies of inter-stellar
. -
travel are stunnJ.ng.e.ven at the speed of light
it would take 4 years to reach the nearest star,
and 100,000 years to cross our galaxy. But it
would be a brave man who said there could never,
ever,be manned inter-stellar travel.
really are strange phenomena in the skies,
arut many are reported by cool and intelligent
people.
Btlt it is a far cry from this to the proposition that there
have been great numbers of sightings of UFOs - implying alien space
craft - sometimes claimed as running into hundreds of thousands.
Her Government is not in the least impressed with the
idea that there is anything worth investigating in the information
offered by ufologists.
3.· On the one hand, there are perfectly simple explanations
for the phenomena; on the other, the explanations offered by
ufologists are most unconvincing. These explanations are un-
convincing when they relate to space craft from other stars: they
are even more unconvincing when they claim that UFOs come from
another space·- time d-l'rf\tn.<;,;(}Y\.. J from a hole in the earth, or the
depths of the sea, as Lord Clancarty has suggested.
e
4. Let us first consider··the phenomena. There have
been strange things to see in the sky, and strange explanations
'have been given. Since World War II we have seen development
of powerful rockets, and voyages to the Moon and planets. We
have also seen the development of science fiction, where space
ships can be switched to 'inter-stellar drive' and our hero can
CA-f'i.4
eeme the 2M light years to Andromeda Galaxy in a flash. We have
also seen the development of ufology and the UFO industryJwhich
accepts the delightful fantasies of science fiction proven fact
and the phenomena in our skies as alien space craft. I•1ost
of the phenomena are seen unexpectedly and very briefly, and are gone
before the eye has focussed. The words 'UFO' and 'space craft' have
been firmly implanted and too readily spring to mind.
6. But what are the real causes of the phenomena?
a. Some have always occurred: tricks of light on cloud; comets,
meteors or showers of meteors; meteorites, bright planets
1
or even the moon or stars iL unusual atmospheric conditions.
Venus is popular: there are recorded cases of pilots
reporting Venus as an 'unidentified flying object following
them'.
b. Meteorological balloons. The Met Office alone release 50
a day, which expand to 40 foot diameter and rise to 100;000
feet and can be lit by the sun we 11 after dark. other
organisations use balloons, some are much larger, and tb9re
are recorded casen of balloons being reported as UFOs by
airline pilots.
- ? -
I
c, Meteorological searchlights shine on clouds: you cannot
see the beam, only a light apparently dancing in the
sky.
J, A surprising number of reports relate to aircraft seen in
unusual conditions at unusual angles, some very high, some
at low level. One recent 'UFO' was confidently reported
on local. radio: we cannc.t prove that it was not a 'UFO
1
, bu·t
we do know that an RAF Vulcan bomber on low flying mission
passed the same spot at the same time and on the same course
as the reported UFO.
.And satellites: there are some 5000 listed objects in orbit,
satellites ar11l space debris. l4ore are added each year, and
aboht 600 re-enter the atmosphere every year. Early this
year MOD received many reports of a large of debris
I
1-t:_-e.nr&'h-:1 across the South of England: most reports
1 were factual, but one spoke of an 'oval shaped thing wi a
L · white cockpit which hovered for a while than shot off at
0
great speed'. We cannot prove it wasn •t a UFO, but it
occurred at the' same time and place as some known re-entry
of space debris.
And of course there are optical illusions. Any phenomena
seen through glass are particularly suspect.
8. There are also genuine hallucinations, sometimes bn people
under stress; the excited tales of the gullible; the embellish!2lents
of the born story teller. Also, I fear, downright lies. There
are also hoaxes: there are some very effective aerlal hoaxes r-rhich
have been perpetrated by children - \'Thich I will not describe for
fear of a new rash of UFO reports.
.e
8 9. ·In
;..
sum, we cannot prove that all or even most of these so-
I
called sightings were not UFOs. But we can say that there is a
great variety of phenomena in the skies for which there are
. perfectly ordinary explanations. We have rio reason to believe
that the so-called UFOs are attributed to anything but these same
causes.
10. But what of these famous arrivals of UFOs, claimed to be
fully documented and authenticated by many witnesses. On
scrutiny they tend to be elusive. I will select one, which
Lord Clancarty has described in his book MYsterious Visitors
as •one of the most remarkable and unexplained mysteries of
k,
modern times•. He claims that during the Gallipots campaign
in 1975, an ire British regiment, the First Fotirth Norfolks,
-
was advancing towards Hill 60: a cloud descended and picked up
regiment and it was never heard of again ••••••• (checking
with Army Historical Branch)
11. As I indicated,there is no criticism of those who
accurately report phenomena. The criticism is of over-readiness
to call them ,!UFOs', and to transpose that into 'alien space
craft'. Thb reports are passed without critical scrutiny to
,-w,W\
the ufologists; who without critical scrutiny, to their
huge files of 'reported sightings and •
- 4 -
I
I
f.
••
12. I am sure no-one will deny that at the'least- there are
possible rational explanations for the phenomena. Let us now
look at the other side of the coin, the range of explanations
·offered by Lord Clancarty and other u:fologi'sts- it is a wide
and confusing range, for there are as many different explanations
as.there are ufologists.
13. Lord Clahcarty has been reported as claiming there have been
some 80,000 sightings. Other ufologists would put the figure even
higher. Now, there is a strange thing about these huge numbers.
To put it in simple terms: either these •space people' prefer to
keep out of the way, or they don't. If they prefer to keep out
of the way, we must assume that the number of 'sightings' is a tiny
proportion of the actual UFO 'sorties', which must run into
millions. If they don't one would expect some unmistakable
appearances.
14. But let us look at their strange track record:
a· Not a single artefact has been produced -not a single
extra-terrestial c h ~ p has dropped an extra-terrestial
spanner; no bent pieces
9
no prange from perhaps millions
of sorties, no nothing. Lord Clancarty has an answer:
the.CIA has hidden them all.
6. There is no correlative evidence on radar of this huge
number of movements.
(,There has been no radio contact (far easier than space
travel) and no evidence on radioo
tf.There have been no convincing photographs, in these days
when so many people carry cameras.
1
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A •0 r).'
·· There has been ·no approach to Governments, and no direct
knowledge of UFOs by Governments. Lord Clancarty has an
answer: there is a great inter-Governmental conspiracy of
silence, initiated by the CIA.
15. idea of the inter-Governmental conspiracy of silence
is at once the most astonishing and the most flattering claim
of all. On so few things can the Governments of the \Torld agree
unaminously, but they have all supposedly agreed to conceal the
of UFOs from their peoples. Let me assure this House
that Her Majesty's Government has never been approached by
people from outer space.
16. There·is no internal consistency about the idea of this huge
number of sightings. If they have come from another solar system,
l'That is the point of this huge number of visits to our planet,
to no apparcut purpose? At best it seems wasteful. This was
once explained by the claim that aliens had advance bases the
other side of the moon. When that became untenable the bases
were assumed to be on another planet in our solar system. As
that has become untenable ever more fantastic explanations are
advanced. In a recent TV broadcast Lord Clancarty claimed that
the UFOs are based in a great hole in the earth. Elsewhere he
has claimed that they have bases in remote parts of South America,
or in the depths of the oceans. Becauseihese physical
have become untenable he has that (I quote): 'UFOs are
paranormal, that is from invisible universes'. They come from
•other space-time continua'. Another ufologist talks of 'space
mind/full mind/Nana•. Indeed the explanations get more and
fantastic, and more and more incapable of e;. i;her proof or dis-
proof.
I
. -
•• •
1
17. The most telling argument of all is that the scientific
community is unmoved by the claims of ufology. A visitor from
tM"'\
outer space - or from another space time or the
depths of the sea, or else they are supposed to be
one
hiding - would be/of the greatest events in human history,
and the greatest scientific event. You would expect serious
and sensible scientists to be devoting much time and effort
to making contact with these supposed space people. The
scientific community is as unimpressed as the
If the ufologists claim that the Government has gagged the
scientific community, it would be as amazing as the alleged
conspiraCY. of silence between Governments.
IS. One could gG on trying to chase the elusive -
indeed devious - arguments of the ufologists. Yes, there has
been ·increase in the number of 'sightings' reported to the
Government: the biggest upsurges occurred when the BBC put out
a programme on UFOs, and when the Daily Express launched a
campaign in connection with the film premiere of 'Close Encotinters
of the Third Kind'. No, the Government is not in the least con-
earned by the increases. LAs has been saii7 Grenada is
financing a study into UFOs, and the United Nations has, in a
moment of casualness, given that · a vague sort of
recognition,and one or two other countries have offered to con-
tribute reports. Her Government, if it contributes at
all, will contribute on the lines of my speech.
19. There are tens of thousands of strange things to see in
the s1ry. It has become to call these things 'UFOs' •
. There are perfectly sensible explanations fc:.- the8e sight1.ngs o
The ufologist explanations are not sensible at all. In 1968
# - . .
..• ~
~ s
comprehensive study on UFOs conducted for t ~ e U ~ Government
w ~ ~ p
1Jy the University of California concluded that 'nothing ·has
----
come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has
added to scientific knowledge'. Ufologistr:J may, if they wish,
continue to believe that Governments and scientists alike are
engaged in a massive cover-up. However, perhaps our debate
will help confirm in some "t.Other peoples minds ufology may be
pleasant fantasy but has nothing to do with truth.
_.,
:\I "
: i.....__.oi,
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--,------
DRAFT

••
M
-
PSLUSofS(RAF) through DUS(Air) and PS/USofS(?AF)
Copies to: PS/CS{RAF)
ACS(G )(RAF)
DI55 - I{r Asteraki
Ops ( GE) 2b(RA.l!')
Placed opposite is a draft closing address for the Lords
debate on UFOs, and a Background Note; due at your office by
1_? Ja.nua!l..J..212.•
2. There is a temptation to equivocate about UFOs because of
the thought that vTe might one day make contact "VTi th people from
distant stars. Ho't-rever, the.re is nothing to indicate that
ufology is anything but claptrap and no evidence a·t all of
1
alien
space craft'. The industry prospered from equivocation and,
lii th 1979 l)eing heralded as 'the year of the UFOs
1
, it seems very
proper for to inject some massive common sense into the business
and come out vri th an equtvoc·al attack on ufology. V/it;h the impact of
the film "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", and the increasing
efforts of the UFO industry and increasing publicity gbren to i-ts
exponents, quite sensible people may begin to wonder whether there
might not be something in ufology, on the "where there's smoke there's
..
fire" principle. Less sensible people may be increasingly confused
and perhaps even worried, to the increasing profit and encouragement
.
of the UFO industry. The subject will not go at>Tay, the Department
and probably Ministers are likely to find themselves increasingly
involved and under pressure for formal statements; and the popular
and UFO press are likely to make· all the mileage they can out of tho
Lords Debate, particularly if there are signn of equivocation or
phrases that co..n easily be misrepresented.
4. Aca:ordingly it is strongly recommentled that the Government take
an uneq_uj.vocal and uncompromisil:lf; line.
:- tlNCLA·ssrFTED
• : . .. • .. . t . . .•.•
i
I
"l
UNCLW$£11fi'Jl6TED ·
--
5. A small difficulty.haA( for purely tactical reasons
unconnected with UFOs, acceded (with other countries) to a
request by the Government of Grenada for a UN study group (at
Grenadan expense) to monitor information on UFOs. The l'rording
of that part of the draft speech has been supplied by FCO.
6. The general line adopted is that there really are strange
phenomena in the sky, but there are perfectly rational
explanations to account for them, so there is no need to introduce
the highly questionable hypothesis of alien space craft. In other
.words, Occam's Razor.
7. The broad line was put to Lord Strabolgi· at our meeting
in December and agreed by him. Lord Strabolgi asked for further
information about cosmic distances and the difficulties of space
travel. I have not included this in the speech, because Lord
Clancarty's "sky people" are evidently "paranormal" and can cross
the light years in a trice; but some facts are included at the
end of the background note.
8. Lord Strabolgi also mentioned the possibility of replying
on any detailed cases produced by Lord Clancarty if the l a t t ~ r will
give advance notice. I repeat the advice I gave in December: we
should not attempt to argue these cases, which tend to be remote
and elusive yet often cannot be refuted without very detailed
examination; indeed ,..,e should not fight the battle on Lord Clancarty's
ground at all.
9. DES have been consulted and are content.
10. You vTill no doubt confirm the time and place of the final
briefine;, which CJ.t present \ve have dm·m for am i'lednesday 17 January.
I ..
•,
. .-:·...
M6 Continued
10. Lord Strabolgi ·asked for a speech of
15-.20 minutes plus defensive material. The
draft is just under 3000 words, or ?.0 minutes
have incorporated all suitable material in
the speech,including·responses tn the points
made by Lord Clancarty. ·
.
. ·11.
10

PS/Secretary of State
.
Copy to:
PS/CS(RAF)
ACS(G)(RAF)
DI55 -.Mr Asteraki
Ops(GE)2b(RAF)
Head of. S4(Air)
• n •
US of S(RAF) has the draft closing
address. Whilst he would not disagree with the
general line taken, and whilst he. accepts the .
need for an objective approach towards this
subject, he that the current draft would
benefit from being toned down so as not to pour
quite so much scorn on 'believers'.
12 January j979
PAS/USofS(RAF)
·nn.cJ.-
ctas. No.
i
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...
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PQ 8530B
LORDS DEBATE ON UFOs : 18th JANUARY 1979
Thank you for your.minutes D/S4(Air)/8/3 of 15th and 16th
January forwarding a revised draft of the speech for
Lord Strabolgi and F.idditional background information
respectively.
2. I have discussed the revised speech vJitl1 Lord Strabolgi
and have made furthe:::- ·- largely editorial - amendrnents.
• . ,
// I attach a copy of a letter which I handed to Lord Strabolgi
last night together with a fresh copy of the speech itself.
Lord Strabolgi \vill be reading the speech again today and
will let me know as soon as possible whether he wishes to have
the briefing meeting which you and have pencilled
in for 1130 tomorrow.
3. You might like to know that the deba1:e is causing a fair
amount of interest in the House of Lords. In addition to the
Earl of Clancarty others taking part will include (in the I
following order) Lord Trefgarne, the Earl of Kimberley,· I
Viscount St Davids, Lords Rankeillour, Kings-Norton, Gladv..ryn l
and Hewlett, the Bishop of Norwich, Earl Halsbury and ·1
Viscount Ox[uird (who will be making his maiden speech).
4. lrJe will not knmv for certain when the UFO debate will
start. It depends, of course, on how long the earlier
business t a k ~ s , but it is unlikely to start before 1800. We
will keep in touch with the House of Lords throughout the
course of tomorrow afternoon and early evening and we will
let you kr"low as soon as we are needed. The d'ebate is likely
to last for betv-wcn two and three hours.
/5. . . . .
·;
' y
·',· ...
2.
5. In view of the likely Press interest in this subject I
am copying this minute and the draft speech to D?.R(RAF) with
the request that he pass his copy to the Duty Press Officer.
I would be grateful if you would consider whether the DPO
needs any additional information; and, if so, if you would
provide it direct.
17th January 1979
OF STATE
I
. '
...


,.
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/
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
. . .........
MAIN BUILDING WHITE.HALL LONDON SW 1
,•
Te!epho""
PQ 8530B 16th January 1979
I
f I
Following the meeting which you held '\·lith
and myself on Friday 12th January the draft speech for you
to make in response to the Earl of Clancarty's Unstarrcd
Question on Thursday 18th January has been I
attach a folder containing the revised version which
follmvs the line which you agreed.
I also attach a more detailed background note, and,
as you requested, the transcript of the BBC television
programme on UFOs in '\vhich the Earl of Clancarty appeared
I and in which a '\vas interviewed and alleged that
I
she had been told by telephone to say nothing about her
alleged sighting of a UFO. I do not suggest, unless you
particularly wish to do so, that you read the transcript;
but the parts an interest are on
-pages 23 and 24 111111111111 and pages 26 - 29 (Lord
Clancarty).
When we spoke on the telephone yesterday you stressed
the need for your speech to touch on Lord Clancarty's
reference to HonsieurGalley's attitude to UFOs. This is
covered briefly in the paragraph at the bottom of page 10.
I attach, as you requested, a copy of the actual transcript
of the interview with M. Galley.
Thursday's debate will be
and myself.

Privnte Sccret2ry
i
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II
PQ 8530B
Head of
Copy to:
PS/US of S (RAF)
PSICS(RAF)
PSIDUS(Alr)
ACS (G) ( RAF)
--7=' DI 55 (Mr
Ops (GE) 2b
Head of DS 8
DPR (RAF)
LORDS DEBATE ON tJFOs : 18th JANUA.RY 1979
Thank you for your _·minutes DIS4(Air) 18/3 of 15th and 16th
January fonvarding a revised draft of the speech for
Lord Strabolgi and Fidditional background information
respectively.
2. I have discussed the revised speech vJitl-:. Lord Strabolgi
and have made further ·- largely editorial - amendments.
I attach a copy of a letter \vhich I handed to Lord Strabolgi
last night together \'lith a fresh copy of the speech itself.
Lord Strabolgi 1.Jill be reading the speech again today and
will let me know as soon as possible whether he \vishes to have
the briefing meeting which you and Mr have pencilled
in for 1130 tomorrow.
3. You might like to know that the debate is causing a fair
/
amount of interest in the House of Lords. In addition to the /
Earl of Clancarty others taking part 1vill include (in the
following order) Lord Trefgarne, the Earl of Kimberley,·
Viscount St Davids, Lords Rankeillour, Kings-Norton,
and Hewlett, the Bishop of Norwich, Earl Halsbury and
Viscount Ox[uird (who will be making his maiden speech).
4. ltJe will not know for certain 'tvhen the UFO debate 1vill
It depends, of course, on how long the earlier
business but it is unlikely to start before 1800. We
will keep in touch with the House of Lords throughout the
course of tomorrow afternoon and early evening and 1ve will
let you as soon as we are needed. The d'ebate is likely
to last for between t1.vo and three hours.
IS. . . . .
I
I
!
. '
'I I
2.
5. In view of the likely Press interest in this subject I /
am copying this minute and the draft speech to DPR(RAF) with //
the request that he pass his copy to the Duty Press Officer.
I would be grateful if you would consider whether the DPO
needs any additional information; and, if so, if you would
provide it direct.
17th .January 1979
,.


-
1)3 }
' . IREDAC"fiON ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
MAIN E:sUILDING. WHITEHALL LONDON swl'-
..
Te!epho"" 218 6169
..
PQ 8530B 16th January 1979
/
Following the meeting which you held \·lith Hr Stevens
and myself on Friday 12th January the draft speech for you
to make in response to the Earl of Clancarty's Unstarrcd
Question on Thursday 18th January has been I
attach a folder containing the revised version which
follmvs the line 'l;vhich you agreed.
/
I
I also attach a more detailed background note, and,
as you requested, the transcript of the BBC television
programme on UFOs in ,.;rhich the Earl of Clancarty appeared
I and in '\-Jhich a Hrs- was interviewed and alleged that j
she had been told by telephone to say nothing about her
alleged sighting of a UFO. I do not suggest, unless you
particularly wish to do so, that you read the transcript;
but the parts in which you expressed an interest are on
--pages 23 and 24 (Mrs- and pages 26 - 29 (Lord
Clancarty) •
When '\-Je spoke on the telephone yesterday you stressed
the need for_your.speech to touch on Lord Clancarty's
*'- reference to,Honsieur· Galley'·s attitude to UFOs. This is
covered briefly in the paragraph at the bottom of page 10.
I attach, as you requested, a copy of the actual transcript
I of the interview with M. Galley.
-The Box party for Thursday's debate will be Mr -,
Hr Hiss and myself.
• .
. .
•.
.. i
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.
l
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.I

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-
e
RESTRICTED
,, ..
.1 6 &
M .
!REDACTION ()11:1 ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
DRAFT
PS.{p:s_C!.f'S ( RAF) through DUS (Air) and PS /USofS (?Ali')
C<1pies to: PS/CS(RAF)
ACS(G)(RAtl________
DI55- Hr---
Ops ( GE) 2b (RAJ!,)
Placed opposite is a draft closing address for the Lords
debate on UFOs, and a Background Note; due at your office by
12 ..!I§:.Il}lar;l_.l2_79.
2. There is a temptation to equivocate about UFOs because of
the thought that vTe might one day make contact vTi th people from
distant stars. Hovrever, there is nothing to indicate that
ufology is anything but claptrap and no evidence a-t all of
1
alien
space craft'. The lJFO industry has prospered from equivocation and,
l-Ti th 1979 1)eing heralded as 'the year of the UFOs
1
, it seems very
proper for HI
1
TI to inject some massive common sense into the business
and come out vTi th an equj_voc·al attack on ufolOfr'J. Yli th the impact of
the film "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", and the increasing
efforts of the UFO industry and increasing publicity giYen to its
exponents, quite sensible people may begin to wonder whether there
might not be something in uf'ology, on the "vThere there's smoke there's
..
fire" principle. Less sensible people may be increasingly confused
and perhaps even worried, to the increasing profit and encouragement
of the UFO industry. The subject will not go avray, the Department
and probably Ministers are likely to find themselves increasingly
involved and under pressure for formal statements; and the popular
and UFO press are l:.i.kely to make· all the mileage they can out of tho
Lords Debate, particularly if there are signn of equivocation or
phrases that can easily be misrepresented.
4. Acc-:ordi!'igly it is strongly recommended that the GovermlJ'}nt take
an 1.Ule(j_uivocal a!.1d "Lmcompromislne line.
- --- ----------------------------------
- .
·
fw:uu }[{ FCO
A small difficulty haA( for purely tactical reasons
unconnected with UFOs, acceded (with other countries) to a
request by the Government of Grenada for a UN study group (at
Grenadan expense) to monitor information on UFOs. The l'Tording
of that part of the draft speech has been supplied by FCO.
6. The general line adopted is that there really are strange
phenomena in the sky, but there are perfectly rational
explanations to account for them, so there is no need to introduce
the highly questionable hypothesis of alien space craft. In other
.words, Occam's Razor.
7. The broad line was put to Lord Strabolgi, at our meeting
in December and agreed by him. Lord Strabolgi asked for further
information about cosmic distances and the difficulties of space
travel. I have not included this in the speech, because Lord
Cla.ncarty's "sky people" are evidently "paranormal" and can cross
the light years in a trice; but some facts are included at the
end of the background note.
8. Lord Strabolgi also mentioned the possibility of replying
on any detailed cases produced by Lord Clancarty if the latt€r will
give advance notice. I repeat the advice I gave in December: we
should not attempt to argue these cases, which tend to be remote
and elusive yet often cannot be refuted without very detailed
examination; indeed w·e should not fight the battle on Lord Clancarty's
ground at all.
9. DES have been consulted and are content.
10. You vTill no doubt confirm the time and place of the final
briefine;, which i'i.t p1•esent He have dm·m for am \•lednesday 17 January.
• · - - - ~ - .. ~ - - -
• <
. ~ e

!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
M6 Continued
10. Lord Strabolgi ·asked for a speech of
1 5-.20 minutes plus defensive rna terial. i'he
draft is just under 3000 words, or ?.0 minutes
I have incorporated all suitable material in
the speech,including responses tn the points
made by Lord Clancarty.
· · ·11 • DES have been consul ted and are content.
10 January·
PS/Secretary of State
Copy to:
PS/CS(RAF)
ACS(G)(RAF.
DI55 - I"'r
Ops( GE)2b( .
Head of. S4(Air)
US of S(RAF) has yOnsidered the draft closing
address. Whilst he would not disagree with the
general line taken, and whilst he accepts the .
need for an objective approach towards this
subject, he feels that the current draft would
benefit from being toned down so as not to pour
quite so much scorn on 'believers'.
12 January j979
Encl.
Clas. No.
·---·
~
...
cr .
...
,, .... ~ )
,.
. - ~
D/S4 (Air) /8/3
DI55 - Mr --../
Ops(GE)2b(RAFL::::
Copy tp: ACS(G)(RAF)
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
UFOs - DEBATE IN THE LORDS
I enclose a first draft of a proposed concluding speech
Lord Strabolgi in the Lords'' debate.
2. The draft tries to take account of the points made to us
on Thursday by Lord Strabolgi. However, on starting to re-
read the Earl of Clancarty•s book 'MYsterious Visitors• I
have appreciated more fully how heavily the Earl has hedged
his bets about space travel: indeed he suggests that the 'sky I
people' are 'paranormal' and come from •another space/time ll
dimension•. I do not recommend trying to track the Earl through
other dimensions, and suggest we stick to the bare essentials !
that we proposed to Lord Strabolg:t ·- that there are pl.enty of i
phenomena, that there are perfectly sensible explanations for !
them, and that the explanations offered by ufology are unn'bessary and i
prove idiotic under critical examination.
3. I would be grateful for any recent recorded cases to cover
the parts of para 6; otherwise I shall draw on the Condon Report
and Klase (the anti-UFO investigator).
4. Clancarty is likely to produce some •documented fully
cases•. I would like to be able to demolish one
as an I have provisionally chosen the disappearance
of the Norf'olk Battalion at Gallipoli, which Clancartry quotes
in one of his books: Hd of Army Historical Branch says that this
is a 'regular', about which the facts can be produced.
5. I would be grateful fer comments, criticisms and additional
arguments or cases. At this stage I am particularly anxious to
know whether you agree to the main line of arguments. Because
time is short I would be grateful for telephone comments.
6. The present draft'is about 2,000 words, around 15 minutes.
7. I have copied this minute to ACS(G)(RAF), and I be
grateful for his comments on the general line of
18 December 1978
; UFOs - DRAFT CLOSING ADDRESS
-There three e;rains of truth upon \'thich the e;reat
myth of ufology is built.
FIRST:
SECOND:
THIRD:
intelligent life could exist else,-There in the
- _,
universe. \•lith 100,000 million stars in our own
galaxy alone, it is probable that there are many
planets capable of supporting life.
the technical difficul·::ies of inter-stellar
travel are at the speed of light
it would take 4 years to reach the nearest star,
and 100,000 years to cross our galaxy. But it
would be a brave man who said there could never,
ever,be manned inter-stellar travel.
really are strange phenomena in the skies,
arui. many are reported by cool and intelligent
people.
2c But it is a far cry from this the proposition that there
have been great numbers of sightings of UFOs - implying alien space
craft - sometimes claimed as running into hundreds of thousands.
Her • Government is not in the least impressed with the
idea that is anything worth investigating in the information
offered by ufologists.
3.· On the one hand, there are perfectly simple explanations
for the phenomena; on the other, the explanations offered by
ufologists are most unconvincing. These explanations are un-
convincing when they relate to space craft from other stars: they
are even more unconvincing when they claim that UFOs come from
another space·- time d.t't1\.tn.s;er-n J from a hole in the earth, or the
depths of the sea, as Lord Clancarty has suggested.
.e e Let us first consider··the phenomena. There have
been strange things to see in the sky, and strange explanations
'have been given. Since World War II we have seen development
of powerful rockets, and voyages to the l·1oon and planets. We
have also seen the development of science fiction, where space
ships can be switched to 'inter-stellar drive' and our hero can
t-+t.>'t4
·' . eeme the 2}! light years to Andromeda Galaxy in a flash. We have
also seen the development of ufology and the UFO industry,which
accepts the delightful fantasies of science fiction proven fact
and the phenomena in our skies as al.ien space craft.
of the phenomena are seen unexpectedly and very and are gone
before the eye has focussed. The words 'UFO' and 'space craft' have
been firmly implanted and too readily spring to mind.
6. But what are the real causes of the phenomena?
.
Some have always occurred: tricks of light on cloud; cooets,
meteors or showers of meteors; meteorites; bright planets
1
or even the moon or stars iL unusual atmospheric conditions.
Venus is popular: there are recorded cases of pilots
reporting Venus as an 'unidentified flying object following
them•.
6. Meteorological balloons. The Met Office alone release 50
a day, which expand to 40 foot diameter and rise to 100_.000
feet and can be lit by the sun well after dark. J.1any other
organisations use balloons, some are much larger, and there
are recorded caseo of balloons being reported as UFOs by
airline pilots.
- ? -
c , Meteorological searchlights shine on clouds: you cannot
see the beam, only a light apparently dancing in the
sky.
d. A surprising number of reports relate to aircraft seen in
unusual conditions at unusual angles, some very high, some
at low level. One recent 'UFO' was confidently reported
on local. radio: we cannc.t prove that it vras not a 'UFO', bu·t
we do know that an RAF Vulcan bomber on low flying mission
passed the same spot at the same time and on the same course
as the reported UFO.
And satellites: there are some_ 5000 listed objects in orbit,
satellites ar1J. space debris. l<iore are added each year, and
600 re-enter the atmosphere every year. Early this
year MOD received many reports of a large of debris
I
1-€:_-e..nru' across the South of England: most reports
"}

1 were factual, but one spoke of an 'oval shaped thing wi t'h a
white cockpit which hovered for a while than shot off at
0
great speed •. We cannot prove it wasn't a UFO, but it
occurred at the· same time arid place as some known re-entry
of space debris.
And of course there are optical illusions. Any phenomena
seen through glass are particularly suspect.
__ _...,
\ 8. There are also genuine hallucinations, sometimes on people
\ under stress; the excited tales of the, gullible; the embellisru,1ents
L_ of the born story teller. Also, I fear, downright lies. There
are also hoaxes: there are some very effecti va aertal hoaxes
_have been perpetrated by children - I will not describe for
fear of precipitating a new rash of UFO reports.
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In sum, we cannot prove that all or even most of these so-
called aightings were not UFOs. But we can say that there is a
great variety of phenomena in the skies for which there are
. perfectly ordinary explanations. We have rio reason to believe
that the so-called UFOs are attributed to anything but these same
causes.
10. But what of these famous arrivals of UFOs, claimed to be
documented and authenticated by many witnesses. On
scrutiny they tend to be elusive. I will select one, which
Lord Clancarty has described in his book Mysterious Visitors
as •one of the most remarkable and unexplained mysteries of
k
modern times•. He claims that during the Gallipots campaign
in 1975, an ire British regiment, the First Fourth Norfolks,
-
was advancing towards Hill 60: a cl6ud descended and picked up
:the regiment and it was never heard of again ••••••• (checking
with Army Historical Branch)
11. As I indicated,there is no criticism of those who
accurately report phenomena. The criticism is of over-readiness
to call them and to transpose that into 'alien space
craft'. Thb reports are passed without critical scrutiny to
' .
the ufologista; who without critical scrutiny, to their
huge files of 'reported sightings and
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12. I am sure no-one will deny that at the'least- there are
possible rational explanations for the phenomena. Let us now
look at the other side of the coin, the range of explanations
·offered by Lord Clancarty and other ufologi.sts - it is a wide
and confusing range, for there are as many different explanations
as.there are ufologists.
13. Lord has been reported as claiming there have been
some 80,000 sightings. Other ufologists would put the figure even
higher. Now, there is a strange thing about these huge numbers.
To put it in simple terms: either these •space people' prefer to
keep out of the way, or they don't. If they prefer to keep out
of the way, we must assume that the number of 'sightings' is a tiny
proportion of the actual UFO 'sorties•, which must run into
·.·
millions. If they don • t one would expect some unmistakable
appearances.
14. But let us look at their strange track record:
Not a single artefact has been produced -not a single
extra-terrestial has dropped an extra-terrestial
spanner; no bent piecess no prange from perhaps millions
of sorties, no nothing. Lord Clancarty has an answer:
the. CIA has hidden them all.
h. There is no correlative evidence on radar of this huge
number of movements.
C. There has been no radic contact (far easier than space
travel) and no evidence on radioo
tf.There have been no convincing photographs, in these days
when so many carry cameras.
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has been·no to Governments, and no direct
knowledge of UFOs by Governments. Lord Clancarty has an
answer: there is a great inter-Governmental conspiracy of
s ilence, initiated by the CIA.
15. idea of the inter-Governmental conspiracy of silence
is at once the most astonishing and the most flattering claim
of all. On so few things can the Governmentsof the world agree
unaminously, but they have all supposedly agreed to conceal the
of UFOs from their peoples. Let me assure this Rouse
that Her Majesty's Government has never been approached by
people from outer space.
16. There·is no internal consistency about the idea of this huge
nwmber of sightings. If they have.come from another solar system,
l'rhat is the point of this huge number of visits to our planet,
to no apparcut purpose? At best it seems wasteful. This was
once explained by the claim that aliens had advance bases the
other side of the moon. When that became untenable the bases
were assumed to be on another planet in our solar system. As
that has become untenable ever more fantastic explanations are
advanced. In a recent TV broadcast Lord Clancarty claimed that
UFOs are based in a great hole in the ·earth. Elsewhere he
has claimed that they have bases in remote parts of South America,
or in the depths of the oceans. Because1hese physical
have become untenable he has that (I quote): 'UFOs are
paranormal, that is from invisible universes'. They come from
•other space-time continua'. Another ufologist talks of 'space
mind/full Indeed the explanations get more and
fantastic, and more and more incapable of ej. iiher proof or dis-
proof.
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The most telling argument of all is that the scientific
community is unmoved by the claims of ufology. A visitor from
.tAN"\
outer space - or from another space time or the
depths of the sea, or else they are supposed to be
one
hiding - would be/of the greatest events in human history,
and the greatest scientific event. You would expect serious
and sensible scientists to be devoting much time and effort
to making contact with these supposed space people. The
scientifi? community is as unimpressed as the
.
If the ufologists claim that the Government has gagged the
scientific community, it would be as amazing as the alleged
conspiracY, of silence between Governments.
IS. One could gG on trying to chase the elusive -
indeed devious - ei.rguments of the u-fblogists. Yes, there has
---- --- -- - --- --- .----------·-
been ·increase in the number of 'sightings' reported to the
Government: the biggest upsurges occurred when the BBC put out
a programme on UFOa, and when the Daily Express launched a
campaign in connection with the film premiere of 'Close Encounters
of·the Third Kind'. No, the Government is not in the least con-
I cerned by the increases. [As has been saig Grenada is
I
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1 financing a study into UFOs, and the United Nations has, in a
moment of casualness, given that · a vague sort of
recognition,and one or two other countries have offered to con-
tribute reports. Her Government, if it contributes at
all, will contribute on the lines of my speech.
19. There are tens of thousands of strange things to see in
the It bas become fashionable to call these things
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UFOs
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·There are perfectly sensible explanations fc-. the8e sight:tngso
The ufologist explanations are not sensible at all. In 1968
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• •.• study on ;FOs conducted for the Government

by the University of California concluded that 'nothing ·has
--
come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has
added to scientific knowledge'. may, if they wish,
continue to believe that Governments and scientists alike are
engaged in a massive cover-up. However, perhaps our debate
will help confirm in some peoples minds ufology may be
pleasant fantasy but has nothing to do with
truth.
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. 0341 l-iCUF.S TfVkSDAY 11 TH SEPTEMBER .. 1980 AN CALL WAS .
. RECI EVED AT G IPTON PCLI CE STAT I Ot\l RE THE SIGHTING OF A UFO IN TI-E
· SEACRCFT AREA OF LEEDS. _, ' . · .
. ·.· ASHORT TIME. LATER PC ®3.Li WPC 5391 . '1/ERE CN PATROL
. ·. IN YORK ROAD LEEDS 14 NEAR TO Tt£ Wr.LN TrEY SAW \thAT
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.AN EASTERLY FOLLOWING THE LINE OF. THE YORK ROAD AT A VERY
. SPEED, . c . • . •
. THE OFFICERS FOLLOh'ED TI-.E OBJECT ALCNG YORK ROAD INTO BAR\111 CK ROAD
. TO THE CCRONATI ON TR=:E AT SCt-:OLES WhERE Tr£ LIGHT STOPPED AI\D -.--:-
f<EMAii\'ED STAT1C>:..;ARY FCf< ABCUT Mii\UTES DURiNG WHiCH Tltv't:. Ti-E . ·
fNTENSITY OF LIGliT VARIED FROM VERY BRIGHT TO Q.Jl TE Dl M •
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APPEARED T(l BE GOH..G CUT OF SIGHT. THE OFFICERS BEGAN TO RETURN •
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f.1ESSAGE E:O..'OS SENDER PC WARNER REF LA/3/11/9/80.
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AT. 03.10 HRS ON SATURDAY 13TH SEPTEMBER, 80 ,. AN UNI DENT IF 1 ED F LYI N:;
OBJECT WAS SEEN BETWEEN BAF\DSEY Al\0 \'IETI-.ERBY. THE It/AS
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\'IERE INFCRttlED AT 03.15 HRS. OVER WETI--ERBY THE SUDDENLY Ch.Al\:9.
DIRECTICN ANDHTRAVELLED EAST TOWARDS YORK. IT WAS
FOLLCWED AT APPOX fJJ MPH AND PASSED EAST OF THE CITY WfERE .SIGHT POF
THE OBJECT WAS LOST. .
SERGEANT JQ j 1 I; THE DUTY OFFICER AT THE AIR MINISTRY AT LONDON
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CONTRCL AT t-1ANChESTER At RPORT AND AT THE RADAR ·STATION AT STAXTON ·
WOLD BUT COLD CFFER-NO EXPLANATJCN.
THE UNIDENTI.FIED OBJECT WAS SEE ... ,
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Sig:Oting.
B. DESCRIPTION OF




. shapa, colour, brightness)
c. ·. EXACT POSITION OF OBSERVER
"{'.Loca·ti"o':"\
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D. HOH OBSERVED
E.
·(lifaleed eye
7
binoculars,· ·
other optical devices,
s·till o=r movie)
D:CHECTION IN \·JHICH OBJECT
J;iYii8ii• •
.. (A1an<iillm may ba mo=re
than a badly estimated
bearing)
Circle of 4 bright lrghts .
Cone shaped changing to '
Diamond shaped. ·
Outdoors, Moving slowly uptb,,
speeds of 60 MPH.
Naked eye.
in an EasterlY directio-_
· from Leeds to York •.

'II. ANGLE OF SIGHT
are
Very Low to 2000
1
unreliable)

G. DISTANCE I
J.
Ti3y reference to knowa ·
landraark)
l"i0VE.l'1ENTS
TUhanges E, F and G may
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MET CONDITIONS DURING
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was var1able.
Gale conditions in area.
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speed;
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K. NEARBY OB,JECTS I
tTelephone lines, high voltage
... lines, reservoir, lake or dam,
· swamp or marsh, river, high
buildings, tall chimneys, steeples,
· · . spires, TV or radio masts,
airfields, generating plnnt, .
factories, pits or other sites \•rith
·.rlood lights or night lighting) ,
L. TO \.JHOM REPORTED
None
RAF Ba.JlMER, RAF STAXTON WOLDl
UK R.A:OO, AN ·n AF Ops.
(Police, military, press etc.)

M. NAME .AND ADDRESS OF INFOfUV!.ANT
N. BACKGROUND OF INFORl''IANT THAT !"lAY B:E
VOLUNTEERED f
O. OTRER \·/ITNESSES
·t=-. DATE .AND TIME OF RECEin
Yorkshire Met
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130400Z SEP 80
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The object was followed fo1., the
full time of the sighting by
ill and..-e in a
car. ·Manchester.Kirport ATC 1
also reported to Boulwer that:
they had a tracl< on the rada.rl
screen flying in the same direc-
tion and hight as estimated by
the police. Due to other reason
Boulmer unable to track and i
Staxton Wold to close. l
DI 55 (RAF)
Rm 3/17.
Metropole .
.. . . .
File·
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WESJ' YORKSHIRE
.. '11 '-'"•
Our reference: MS2l/JI/SW
Your reference:
Dear Sir
ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT
P.O. Box 9 WAKEFIELD WFl 3QP
Telephone: Wakefield (0924) 75222, Extn. 2207
29 September 1980
I enclose for your information a copy of a police report
about an incident which occurred in the Gipton Division
of this Force on 26 September 1980.
Yours faithfully
ENC
• The Ministry of Defence
Dept S4 (Air)
Main Building
Whitehall
LONDON SWl.A 2HB
-·<
,,
WEST YORKSHIRE METROPOLITAN POLICE
FROM: Gipton Division
SUBJECT: SIGHTING OF U.F.O.
At 0455 hours Friday, 26 September 1980 PC Black
was on patrol in a police vehicle in Selby Road,
Leeds 15, travelling towards Selby, when he saw
a very bright white light in the sky to his left.
The object, which was spherical in shape moved
with the police v ~ h i c l e at a height of approximately
1,000 to 2,000 feet about half a mile away. When
the police vehicle was stopped the object continued
to move in the sky. When the police vehicle
changed direction travelling down Selby Road, the
object continued to follow and on approaching the
railway bridge at the bottom of Selby Road the
object rose into the sky and vanished.

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TELEPHOOED REPORT OF FLYING COMPIAINT/S<NIC BOOMS/CLAIMS ETCJ<.,'TRI..:./_ CJF0 (2'bfbe1S
p. Date and time, also position on Incident (GP./Co-ord if possible)
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3. Number and description of .. . C9N!CA-f. .
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4. Name and address of Complainant • ,, f.Y.W, .. JJJ$1/.0.e •• .
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5. 's Telephone Number •• PJ$./{Q f. . M.C.I!fR:t:J.fl. ..• :?:?.Q. 1:? • .1.'1 ••.••••
6. Date and Time report received ... .. ...................... .
7. Additional information ( ··"Jf Giaimo etc) •• rJ fJ? •• :f 1t?:f!¥iP.. 7:J/(;?if fi.. .. . ··'
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FOR THE ATTENTION OF AFOR(RAF) UFO REPORT
A. 26 SEP-0030 'HOURS-5-6 MINUTES··
.B. ONE OBJEG'f,··.VERY.LARG;E SPOTLIG;H'f,··STEADY:LIG;H'f, NO BEAH. ·NO IDEA
OF SI ZE·-OR SHAPt. ·COLOtiR UHI TE-- - - · .: .
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Do. te, Time Duration of Sighting.
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Description of Object
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Exact Position of Observer.
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:.rove ::ion ts of Object.

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: .c Conditions Durin.; Observ..l tions.
Hcv:wg Clouds, Haze, mist etc.

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\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
U ll C L · A S S ' I F ' I E D
· FOR Ci\8
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SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
:Ao SEP: HRS
B. LARGE BRIGHT LIGHT LIKE-AN OVERGROWN LIGHT SHADE-FLAT AT
n BOTTON AND TOP
'iJ C. LLA 1\l FO I : .:T-A 8 CR(JA '/ Ei'! Y (1 \•j 0 DOOR: I·I 0\
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I
AT 0341 1-iCUR$ TfVRSOAY 11 TH SEPTEMBER 1980 AN ANONYMOUS CALL WAS
RECIEVED AT GIPTON POLICE STATlOt\1 RE THE SIGHTING OF A UFO IN TH::
SEACROFT AREA OF LEEDS.
·.· ASHORT T 1 ME LATER PC RE CN PATROL
IN YORK ROAD LEEDS 14 l\i 0 TI---.E HlGhWA ·FLATS Wi-:f.N Tt-EY SAW \ihAT
THEY DESCRIBE AS A VERY BRIGhT Whl TE LIGHT ( RESEtv1BliNG li-£ L.A.NDiNG
·LIGHTS OF /IN AIRCRAFT AT VERY LOW ALTITUDE ). Tt-ERE \vAS NO OTt-ER
COLCURED LIGHTS CN Tt-£ CR.A.FT. THE LIGhT WAS· TRAVELLlt'.G SLO\•/LY IN
_AN EASTERLY FOLLOWING THE LINE OF. THE YORK ROAD AT A VERY
SLOW SPEED, . r • •
. THE OFFICERS FOLLC't'iED Tl-.E OBJECT ALCNG YORK ROAD INTO BARWICK ROAD
. TO THE CORONATION IR=:E AT Set-:OLES WHERE Tr£ LIGHT STOPPED Al\D --
REMAii'.'ED STAT7::•:.;ARY FCf< ABCUT TEN Mii\UTES DURiNG WHiCH Tir-E Tt£ . ·
INTENSITY OF LlGiiT VARIED FRCM VERY BRIGHT TO QUl TE Dl M.
AFTER THIS TIME ThE EIGHT TO MOVE AWAY Q.JlCKLY UPWARDS Al'\D .
APPEARED TQ BE GOI t..G CUT OF SIGHT. THE OFF 1 CERS BEGAN TO RETURN •
TOWARDS GIPTCN POLICE STATION wr.EN THE LIGHT REAPPEARDS BEHIND THEM
AND TRAVELLED ALSO TOWARDS LEEDS FROM THE AREA WHERE OT HAD SEEEN
SEEN LAST. THE LIGHT TRAVELLED BEHIND ThE POLICE CAR FOR ABOUT
HALF A MILE WhEN II SJDDENLEY DISAPPEARED AS 1 F THE U GHT nAD ..
BEEN OFF.
G I PTCN RAD I 0 \if AS --KEPT I NFOR-1ED THROJGHOJT Af\0 THE AT
WEST · DF.A YTON WERE ! t\f" CRMED. . · · .
SENDER PC -REF10. 2; 11/9/80 Tl ME NO\'/ 0 520.
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FROt-1 CH. SUPT. LA DIViSiU\J GiPTCN
TO FORCE CCNTROL FRO SUPT- HG!aE DEFENCE .
F"URTr£R TO TPM LA/2/11/9/80
·.· ----
• .
WITH REFERENCE TO ThE ABOVE TPM RE ThE SIGHTING OF POSSIGLE UFO
IT·IS Dt;FICULT TO ESTIMATE HIGHT OF ThE OBJECT BUT IT
WAS VERY LOW lN TE SKY AND I WOJLD ESTlf'.1TE ITS i-:EIGhT AT LESS THATN
1000 FEET.
MESSAGE El\'OS SENDER REF LA/ 3/11/9/80.
t (.
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...

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OF AN FLYING OBJECT

·· D t m· d n..- J.. • .9' .. l30300Z to l304lOZ SEP 80
. A •.. · a a, an o"'
Signting.
B. DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT
"'('1\fumoer · o.t'ob"jec·cs sizo
shape, colour, brightness)
Circle of 4 brignt lights,.
Cone shaped changing to
Diamond shaped.

c. ·. EXACT POSITION OF OBSERVER
, iud.o"o7./ outd.o'or-;

1
moving)
D. H0\·1 OBSERVED
E •.
Tiifaleed eye
7
binoculm:•s ,·
other optical devices,
s·till oz- movie)
D:CHECTION IN HHICH OBJECT
J!Iii8'r o:C: t!a\l
.. (.A1aud.illrn may be mo:re
useful than a badly estimated
bearing)
Outdoors, Moving slowly uptb\'
speeds of 60 MPH.
Naked eye.
movir:g in an EasterlY
from Leeds to York •

F. .ANGLE OF SIGHT
1]st-imated-hefghts are
Very Low to 2000
1
unxeliable)

Ti3y reference to known ·
H.
land.L:lark)
110VE.i'1ENTS
TUhanges in E, F and G may
be of more uae than
ot course and speed)
None
!
No changes in course but

was var1able. I
' 1
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J. Gale conditionS in area. i
I T{fJ.oufl.."ct.,-bJ4.'7;fJ, miet etc) - J
L .... __ ; _____ ,;._ .... __._.....:.;..--=z:--'-""C>:U .. ------"""""'----,.......,..,,.
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ON C?RIGINAL DOCUMENT I
. >.

K. NEARBY OB,JECTS
· "[Telephone lines, high voltage
.. lines, reservoir, lake or dam,
•.
· swamp or marsh, river, high None
buildings, tall chimneys, steeples,
spires, TV or radio masts •
airfields, generating plnnt,
factories, pits or other sites \<Ti
'flood lights or night lighting) ,
L. TO \.JHOI1 REPORTED
(Police, military, press etc.)
M. N.A.ME .AND ADDRESS OF INFOBYi.P.NT
..
O. OTHER WITNESSES
-tJ. DATE AND TIME OF RECEIPI'
Q. METEOROLOGICAL
·coNDITIONS
R. REMARKS
l3 gb
a •
RAF BOJilvlER, RAF STA:X:rON WOLD
UK RAOC, AN D AF Ops.

130400Z SEP 80
No
The object was followed fo1., the
full time of by
in a Po1ic•
ATC
1
also reported to Boulmer that!
they had a track on the rada,r!
screen flying in the same direc-
tion and hight as estimated by
the police. Due to other reason
Boulmer unable to track and :
Staxton Wold to close. I
Copies to; DS 8a
Rrn 82'1
Ops (GE)2 (RAP)
Rm 4260
DI 55 (RAF)
Rm ?>/17
Metropolc.
File
· Bldg Main Bldg
..

!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
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AT.03.10 HRS ON SATURDAY 13TH SEPTEMBER, 80,. AN UNIDENTIFIED FLYIM;
OBJECT WAS SEEN BETWEEN BARDSEY Al\0 \'iETI-.ERBY. THE OBJECT WAS
TRAVELLll\G NORTHWARDS AT A I-'£ IGhT OF APPROXlt-lATELY 2000 FEET. ·_ 1 T
TOOK THE FORM OF A BRIGHT LIGHT ABOUT 10 TIMES BRIGHTER THAN ANY
STARS VI Sl BLE AND AT THAT Tl t-tE WAS 4 - 5 TIMES LARGER TH.AN ANY. STAR
TrERE WAS NO AUDIBLE NOISE NO OUTLINE VISIBLE$ LEEDS CONTROL
\'/ERE INFORMED AT 03.15 HRS. OVER WETI-£RBY THE OBJECT SUDDENLY Ch.tli\8.
DIRECTICN EAST TOWARDS YORK. IT WAS
FOLLCWED AT APPCX fJJ MPH AND PASSED EAST OF THE Cl TY WI-ERE SIGhT POF
THE OBJECT WAS LOST. .
SERGEANT- THE DUTY OFFICER AT THE AIR ANDON
. CONFI 1-'.AD BEEN TRACKED ON RADAR AT AIR TA FF IC
CONTROL AT t-1ANChESTER AIRPORT AND AT THE RADAR STATION AT Si: TON·
WOLD BUT COLD OFFER-NO EXPLANATICN. - ·
THE UNIDENTI.FIED OBJECT WAS SEE BY -·
AND Jl!a - - ·
ENDS SENDER-
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SUBJECT- UFO REPORT REF MOD/AF/J459/75/PT11/S/4F
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SUSJEeT-UFO REPORT FOR S4F(AIR)
A 172C00A SEP FOR 4 MINS
P Rt]U;:U 110 SOIJl!D
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TELEPHOOED REPORT OF FLYING BOOMS/CLAIMS
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CUD(¢7 23/0854 267C0943
POUT I NE SEP .
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Our reference: MS2i/JI/SW
Your reference:
Dear Sir
ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT
P:O· Box 9 WAKEFIELD WFl 3QP
Telephone: Wakefield (0924)
29 September 1980
I enclose for your information a copy of a police report
about an incident which occurred in the Gipton Division
of this Force on 26 September 1980.
Yours faithfully
ENC
• The Ministry of Defence
Dept S4 (Air)
Main Building
Whitehall
LONDON SWlA 2HB
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WEST YORKSHIRE METROPOLITAN POLICE
FROM: Gipton Division
SUBJECT: SIGHTING OF U.F.O.
At 0455 hours Friday, 26 September 1980 PC
was on patrol in a police vehicle in Selby Road,
Leeds 15, travelling towards Selby, when he saw
a very bright white light in the sky to his left.
The object, which was spherical in shape moved
with the police at a height of approximately
1,000 to 2,000 feet about half a mile away. When
the police vehicle the object continued
to move in the sky. When the police vehicle
changed direction travelling down Selby Road, the
'
object continued to follow and on approaching the
railway bridge at the bottom of Selby Road the
object rose into the sky and vanished.
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OC RAF Police F1t
Sir,
PoSSIBLE. UFO SIGHTINGS
UNCLASSIFIED
POLICE IN CONFIDENCE
RAF Police Flight
RAF Cosford
Wo1verhampton
West Midlands
WV7 3EX
Mar 93
1. I have to report that ford on 31 Mar 93 at 0115 hours in
company with. Cpl RAF Police, I was on mobile patrol
of Leeming Road, to e ravel Car Park when I saw two bright
lights in the sky ove the Airfield. The lights appeared to be flying
at great velocity in a South Easterly direction at an altitude of
approximately 1000 feet. The lights were circular in shape and gave off
no beam. They were creamy white in colour and constant in siza and in
relation to each other.
2. -brou ht the vehicle to a standstill and pointed out the lights to
Cpl l switched off the vehicle engine and we both got out of
the lights. There was no sound of any engine noise
despite there being no wind and the sky being free from cloud. The
lights were observed over-flying the Unit and away towards the
Wolverhampton area. A slight red glow could be seen from the rear of
the lights as they disappeared from view over the horizon. The lights
were visible for approximately one minute.
3. Myself and Cpl- then , to the COC and I contacted RAF
Shawbury. I was informed that there were no aircraft flying from there.
4. · At 0125 hours. I contacted ATC at RAF Lyneham and was informed that
there were no known aircraft in the area of Cosford.
5. At 0127 hours, I contacted RAF Brize Norton and was informed the
same.
1. At 0130 hours, I. informed West Mercia Police,
sightings.
POLICE IN CONFIDENCE
UNCLASSIFIED
of the
. tfi·
.. ··--)
e
UNCLASSIFIED
POLICE IN CONFIDENCE
8. At 0140 hours. I informed HQ P&SS (UK), Cp1
incident.
9. At 0142 hours, I informed RAF West Drayton, Lt Cdr
incident, and he confirmed that there was no military a
kind in UK airspace and there had not been since 0001 hours.
of the
the
any
10. At 0143 hours, the Senior Air Traffic Controller at Jairmingham
International Airport was contacted, and he confirmed that'_there were
no civilian aircraft in Cosford Airspace and had not been for some
hours.
11. At 0215 hours, OC RAF Police Flt and the Ord Off, Flt Ltlllllllro
were informed of the incident.
12. At 0250 hours. 111111111111 RAF Shawbury Met Office, Cpl
stated two lights in the sky at RAF
were first sighted approximately 15-20 kms away
observed them travel towards him over the. Airfield moving
at hundreds of m;les per hour unlike any aircraft. He
described the lights as appearing to be searching for something. He
heard a 1ow humming noise and watched the object for 5 min es until it
disappeared from sight in a southerly direction. stated that
he had been a Met Officer for 8 years and had n anything like
it before.
13. At 0300 hours, Cpl a-the Met Officer at
Bristol Airport, who been seen there at
0055 hours. He had in it i a 111 y put the 11 i ghts down to adverse mete·or
activity but in the light of the subsequent reports recorded it as
unidentified. ·
14. At 0310 hoursJ West Mercia Police were made of the further
reports and would contact Staffordshire and Avon & Somerset Forces to
correlate the reports.
15. At 0330 hours I resumed normal duties.
UNCLASSIFIED
POLICE IN CONFIDENCE
. ..
e RAF POLICE SITUATION
REPORT.30-31 MAR 93.
DOBNO
10211193
DATEi
TiME

0115 rll'$
012Shrs
0300 h!'$
PERSON
REPORTiNG
Snstoi
MetOrt!ce
OCCURRENCE
POSSIBLE UFO SIGHTING.
P: sl; htf]"; h:tv fights .:,· .
the Unit in a South airection ai: a.
helr.r:'r· of •

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JightS suggested fast. itt$, no
c.:.ilision beacons could be$een.
Reports the e.ame rtghts in the
fi)'ng er'80call'f. He he.dtoUowedtnelights
:"lad
ot he described as
saucers, but on entering the ereatrLe)''
had could not locate them. Reoort
Cp!. ·
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• • ..... \,. l.f!'\t.· .._. ,... .... • • oJy •• : .... ... _,,.,..
had beenseeninRAr Sha'A'bwy
heading South.
AC'T!ON TAKEN
:. ,e:rc at
Srt:l.\•lbUrY. O!rtrungM.m ana We&
J· . .. it \Jias
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.
2. .All c e d c Mercia
Police artd P&SS.
S. staffs

Report tr.e !ights been t::ere $ . . & Pc:ice ..
lnibewyit w-a.i presum tH!tr1 e}' 'w'ere l'fl eS: > ir.t om1 e d ort
but in ot hti!"tgs ccu!d !'!D
explanation and recorded the
u!""!ide!"!tifted.
(. Vi est e:tcia P oiic e ·w·ere
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ana ·wiii correiaJ:e reports.
d byCpt

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D - U - F - 0 - R - 0
(Devon UFO Research Organisation)
~
Room 8245
MOD Main Building
Whithall
London SW1A 2HB
Dear
14th March 1993
Firstly, thankyou for your help when I rang you last week re:
the sighting of an unknown object on Wednesday 31st March '93
over Wales and the Westcountry.
As requested I am enclosing a copy of my hastily prepared
Interim Report concerning this event. It will obviously take
some time to collate all the information I receive, but once
this is completed I will let you have a copy of my final
report.
I understood from our conversation, that you have also received
some reports of this event and would appreciate anything you
can tell me concerning this. I have no idea at present what
flew over this area on the night in question, all I do know is
that it was very big, was shaped something like a 'Catamaran'
and was completely silent!
Once again many thanks for your help.
Kind regards
. . - ...
a 1 1 •
Ell
INTERIM REPORT
Case No 933
D - U - F - 0 - R - 0
{Devon UFO Research Organisation}
Case Name - 'Westcountry I Wales Sightings - 31st March 1993'
Introduction
At 2.20am on the morning of 31st March 1993, I received phone
call from Sgt J of the Devon & Cornwall Police Force
informing me that at 1.10am he had observed 2 very bright white
objects hovering at approximately 2,000' north of his position,
S.E. of Liskeard on the A38.
He had been notified of the
objects presence in the area, by two other Police
Officers,
P.Cs an These officers were
travelling
out of Liskeard in a north westerly direction and had
themselves observed the two objects approaching from the N.E •
.
Sgt
watched the objects for a few seconds before they
started to ascend fairly quickly and moved S.E. in an arc to a
height of about 10,000' towards Torpoint, Plymouth, Devon.
Following this report, I contacted the Police Control
Headquarters at Exeter, Devon and was informed by an officer on
duty that they had received a number of similar reports from
other Police Officers in Ilracombe, Plymouth and East Devon.
They also mentioned a report from the South Wales Gwent Police.
Acting on this information, I telephoned the police station at
Ilfracombe, (Nth Devon) and spoke to a Sgt lllllllllwho
informed me that at approximately 1.10am whilst driving down
into Lynton, with another officer(P.C. they saw two
/2
(2)
very large bright white lights approaching from the north,
across the Bristol Channel. He estimated their height to be
about 2,000'. As the lights passed overhead, both officers
discerned a structure between the lights and estimated that an
object some 500' wide with lights on either side had passed
over their heads at low altitude! They subsequently logged a
report of this event with their headquarters.
After this call, I contacted the Plymouth police and was
informed that they had a call, about l.lOaru, from a
5entleman who reported seeing two very bright lights, flying
fairly high over Stoke (Plymouth) and proceeding in a
S.Easterly direction. Because of the time of night and the
improbability of what the person was reporting, this report was
not officially logged.
Later in the day, I contacted the police at Merthyr Tydfil
(South Wales) and after some delay obtained the names of two
police officers stationed at Treharris Police Station who had
also reported seeing two very bright white objects/lights
flying across South Wales and heading across the Bristol
Channel. Their report was also timed at about l.lOam.
That evening I contacted the Exeter Police and was given the
names of three police officers who had earlier re
sighting. These proved to be a Sgt 0. nd PC
All three officers had been on duty in Paul
Street, Exeter, when they observed two very bright objects
flying parallel to each other and on an Easterly course over
the city.
/3
..
(3)
On Thursday 1st April 1993, I received
at the British
name, address and telephone number of
from Pentregalar, Dyfed, who had also seen the two very bright
lights in flight across a.W.Wales at l.lOam on Wednesday 31st
Narch 1993.
At this point, I now had some seven or eight reports, mostly
police officers, who had all observed two very bright white
lights or objects, travelling across the sky from
approximately N.W to S.E. in complete silence and trailing some
form of illuminated vapour trail behind them I it! What was
noticeable about these sightings, was that all the persons I
spoke too had great difficulty in describing the 'trails' and
used the term vapour as a simply means of doing so. What was
also noted was the fact that whatever it was that was trailing
behind the objects, it was 'illuminated' or 'lit up' by some
means or other. One person described them as 'like car head
light beams shining backwards, another thought they looked like
long thin fluorescent light tubes!
Because of the extraordinary similarity between the reports, it
was obvious to me that at approximately l.lOam on the morning
of the 31st March 1993, an object of enormous size had crossed
N.W.Wales, S.Wales, N.Oevon, Cornwall and E. Devon. During its
flight it had descended from a gceat height over N.W.Wales to
about 2,000' above the Bristol Channel and hovered at the same
height north of Liskeard. from there it ascended to
approximately 10,000' over Plymouth and subsequently E. Devon.
From here I felt sure it must have travelled further east or
south easterly and decided therefore to try and obtain some
additional sightings by use of the local press. I contacted the
Gazette and Honiton News, both weekly papers and gave
them some details of the events of Wednesday 31st.
/4
w
~ ~
(4)
I avoided giving the time of the sightings and a full
description of what had been seen.
These reports were published on Friday 2April 1993 and by mid
afternoon on that day my phone was ringing continuously. My
callers were mainly from the Taunton, Minehead area and
interestingly gave me a good picture of the objects journey
over Somerset and onto the Dorset border. Again most of the
r e ~ o r t s were of two very bright white lights, flying parallel
to each other and at a constant speed. The rear light source
was again mentior1ed iri all the reports and as before the
callers had difficultly in describing this. The length of the
trailing light varied from caller to caller and was anything
from 100' to 100yds depending on the callers angle of sighting.
Most of these sightings were timed between l.lOam and 1.17am,
which indicated a l.lOam to 1.15am sighting, some five minutes
later than the Welsh, Cornwall sightings.
In addition to the l.lOam - 1.15am sightings, I also received
two reports concerning a large object carrying two very bright
outward light sources. This object was seen at 2am over the
River Parrot, Nr Bridgewater, flying very low, about 800', by
some local fishermen known as 'Elvers'. Elvers being young
eels. Both reports concerned a number of fishermen but
initially made by two of them, and of
Bridgewater, Somerset. One of the sightecs,
described the object as looking like a very large 'Catamaran'.
It had two long ski like sections underneath which appeared to
be joined by a centre structure about 400' to 500' apart! From
the rear they described a long beam like light source,
something like a cars headlights dimmed.
/5
..
<
..
(5)
In all the reports received, there was no mention of any noise
being associated with the lights I object, in fact the reverse
appears to be the case, i.e. complete silence!
Whilst collating all these reports, I also received some
reports concerning bright lights flying in formation and
hovering over Bridgewater and Bishops Lydiard between 9pm and
lOpm on the evening of 30th March 1993. I also received one
report, again from a police officer, who was off duty and with
some Scouts Up on the Quantock Hills at about 9pm on the 30th.
He reports seeing a large object flying in from the north,
fairly low and said it resembled 'two concord aircraft fixed
together' and covered in a number of white bright lights.
Obviously this could not have been two 'Concords' but its not a
bad description in comparison with the 'Elvers' description at
2am i.e. a large 'Catamaran'.
Since these reports I have received three more, only these have
come from St Ives, Cornwall. again two very bright lights are
reported flying parallel to e a ~ h other and very high in the
sky. This is some twenty minutes later than the earlier
sightings on the 31st and indicates that the objects or objects
were seen over the West Country and Wales, on at least three
separate occasions i.e. l.lOarn, 1.30am and 2am.
From the general description given, it would appear that the
object seen was about 500' in width, carrying two very bright
light sources at its outer edges with a number of smaller
lights surrounding its main body. It left a tail of light,
something like a vapour trail, only illuminated or lit up.
/6
I o
(6)
At this point in the investigation, Sunday 11th April 1993, I
have now despatched 33 report forms to all the 'sighters' and
once returned will hopefully be able to plot at least the
1.10am flight path of the object and provide a better
description of its form, structure and performance. I will also
have a better picture of the 1.30am St Ives, Cornwall and 2am
Bridgewater, Somerset events.
As a matter of interest, two of my reports concerned the
presence of two 'Jet fighters' flying in from the East. one
behind the other, and across Devon at 1.30am on the 31st. One
report came from a retired airline pilot living in East Devon
who gave the altitude of the jets as 20,000' and their speed as
1,500mph. He also said they were in a hurry and had their
'after burners' on! This report was later corroborated by a
second report from a gentlemen living in Wellington, Somerset.
My efforts to confirm the presence of these aircraft with SEC
(AS) 2A at the MOD (AIR) was not successful. From their records
~ military aircraft were airborne at this time over Devon and
are therefore unknown to anybody at this time!
I also received two reports of three military type helicopters
flying in a radius of Bridgewater between 1.30am and 2am on the
31st. Both reporters are adamant that the helicopters were
military - probably 'Sea Kings'? but again MOO (AIR) were
unable to confirm their presence in the area. Hy information is
that these Helicopters were on a search operation of some kind
or another and that at one stage 'red flares' were seen due
south of Bridgewater.
DUFORO 13th April 1993
".'•V.'"
.. ' .
&,ICir
UNCLASSIFIED
FIN.6/016
REPORT OF AN UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT
A. Date, Time and Duration of Sighting.· Mf\R <\3 :Z. \ SfVl tNS
B. Description of Object. 0!-lE.. Gc'-A.S.S. •
\""\S St'b.€.. • -to • . "l:>tNe T<:::>
0 L- \ c.r: . .
C. Exact Position Observer. ? E:-t-.l•t-le tv
c;.. (S,\(Z.CH Vo:)OOV \ f\.<LE:A.. or "E-N
D.
How Observed.
E. Direction in which Object was first seen.
F; Angle of Sight.
G. Distance. , t pan; \€.1\-JE::;U...a:::> -to
l). N l\ A PP R.oY- '2.-0Crv- ·
H. Movements. S.·-ni.-L-1""JL.L -,"*e,N fiAcvcD
AeE=A U JV 'TtL C>vl.. "'t" . 0 F 'SL U;;l:-\-"l
I. Meteorological condistions during observation.
'F I No 'E:. '\::::> fl.--{
J. 'Nearby Objects.
K. To whom reported. <?C.
L.·· Name and Address of Informant.
M. Any background on the informant that
N. Other Witnesses.
\I 1
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0. o/ ·PC.
6D M'Af2- a_ 'S 2\41


'"\J:'.l
p. Is a reply requested. '-/ES
Signed
Name
Rank
Tel No
---
Date
.....
•···c•: . • •. ;...-'-,.,""""'·. •
Form MG11(T)
Witness Statement
Statement of
Ageifunder21 0 21
(if over 21 insert 'over 21').
This state"lent (consisting of pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and
belief and I make it knowing that. if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully
stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
March 19 93
Signatu
n the Devon & Cornwall Constabulary stationed at
Liskeard in Ccrnwall.
At about 0110 hrs on the morning of Wednesday 31st March 1993 I was
on duty in uniform and driving a marked Police vehicle along the A38 at
Looe Mills near Liskeard travelling in the direction of Dobwalls.
Thj s w&.s naturally during the hours of darkness ar:d the WE·ather was
fine and dry, with some patchy cloud; the moon and a number of star3 being
visible. I was
As I began to negotiate a sweeping uphill left hand bend at the bottom
of Lantoom Hill, I became: of what appeared to be two 'stars' just
above the horizon in the apprcximate position of "two o'clock". They were
due North of me and motionless in the sky.
My attention was drawn to
these "stars" because apart from being in a part of the sky where there
•.
are usually no stars, they were of a darker hue bordering on yellow instead
of silvery-white. They were reasonably close together but as I could not
begin to estimate their distance from me, I likewise cannct estimate how
far they were from each other.
As I negotiated the bend I continued to observe when I suddenly
saw them begin to move what appeared to me vertically upwards. They main-
tained a parallel course and identical spe·ed and as they approached the
"one o'clock" position they began to leave vapour trails.
I brot.<ght my
off the engine and got out. My locatior: now was
.............................
Signature witnessed by ................................................ .
• ..
t
...
Form MG1.1A(T)
Continuation sheet No
Continuation of Statement of
approximately 100 yards the Liskeard side of the lay by outside Lantoom
Quarry, map ref 230 650.
My view of these objects was very good; the sky being clear, and they
continued their still at an identical speed to each other and still
on a parallel course. I realised that they were not vertically
but rather cul'ving overhead and heading due South. As they gained in
height the vapot.:r trails became much more pronounced. I wc;s still unable
to estimate their height because of their small size (ider.tical to a star
in the night sky) but I believe they we:·re very high.
As they passed
directly overhead at "12 o'clock high", the heavens at this point were
bright and moonlit and I could see that there was nothing bet.we:en ·the
objects apart from empty sky. They we:re definitely twc separate objects.
At abcut this time I became aware of what I be:lieved tc be: a third
object visible only by its vapour trail which was considerably less otvious
than the trails of the: other two objects. This third object seemed
to be travelling to the right hc:.nd side of the left haP.d obejct (as I was
looking up), and slightly to the rear of it. It maintained the identical
speed and parallel course of the other objects.
As the objects continued on a dead straight north south course, they
•·.
seemed to be travelling at a similar speed to a high flying passenger jet
aircraft.
I lost sight of them owing to the high ground of the quarry
immediately or. my left.
· During the: total duration of this sighting, which was between 45
secor.ds and
minute, my observation of these objects was and
uninterrupted.
There was no sound wr ... atever, the: night being ver·y still
with no traffic.
Signature witnessed by
OF DEfENCE
-5 APR 1993
A. Date, Time and Duration of Sighting
Local times to be quoted
B. Discripticn of Object
Number of objects,size,shape,cclours,
brightness,sound,smell,etc.
C. Exact position cf.cbserv•r
Geographical location,indoors our out,
stationery or moving.
D. Hew Observed
Naked eye,binoculars,other optical
cr movie camrra.
E )irecticn in which Obj•ct was First Seen
A landmark more useful than badly •
bearing.
F. Angular Elevation of Obj•ct
Estimated heights are unreliable.
G. Distanc• of Object from Observer
Ref. to known landmark when possible.
H. Mcv•ments of Object
Changes E,F G more use than est.
course and speed.
J. M•t. Condition During Observation
Moving clouds, haze, mist, etc.
K. Nearby Objects

4
Telephone or high-voltage lines;·dam, lake
or reservoir; swamp or marsh; river; high /_..
' building, tall chimney, steeples,spires or
masts; airfields, generating
factories or other· li9hted sites, or lighting
L. To Whom Reported ' No ...
Police, Military org. the press, etc.
M. Name and Address of Informant
----------.
N. Any Background Information en Informant
that may b• Vclunt••r•d
o. Othtu• Witness
Signature •••
...
' ''
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H. Movements (Changes in E, F & G
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I. Met Conditions during Observations
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J. Nearby Objects (Telephone lines,
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--------·--------
. ·.-····
CWD148 31/0959 090C1185
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 310720Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310110Z MAR 93. 30 SECONDS
.+.FEED
·lbiRECTION
B. TWO, POSSABLY THREE, STARSHAPED WITH VAPOUR TRAIL WHEN MOVING,
YELLOW/GOLD AND BRIGHT
C. MOORSWATER, LISHEARD, CORNWALL, OUTDOORS, STATIONARY
D. NAKED EYE
E. NORTH
F. ABOVE
G. N/K
H. STATIONARY THEN MOVING STEADILY
J. CLEAR
L. POLICE
,
~ : ~ ~ ~ I ~ E OFF IJERS
CORNWALL.
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0003 UNCLAS
0. SEEN BY OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THROUGHOUT DEVON AND CORNWALL
P. 310130Z MAR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
F
CAB 1 SEC<AS) ACTION < CXV
CYD 1 DD GE/AEW
CAP 1 DI 55
l AFIIO )
A. Date, Time and Duration of Sighting
Local times to be quoted
B. Discripticn cf Object
Number of objects;size,shape,colours,
brightness,sound,smell,etc.
c. Exact position of observer
Geographical location,indoors our out,
stationery or moving.
D. Hew Observed
Naked eye,binoculars,other optical
device,still or movie camera.
E. Direction in which Object was First Seen
A landmark more useful than badly
bearing.
F. Angular Elevation of Object
Estimated heights are unreliable.
G. Distance of Object from Observer
Ref. to known landmark when possible.
H. Movements of Obj•ct
Changes in E,F G more use than est.
course and speed.
J. Met. Condition During Observation
Moving clouds, haze, mist, etc.
K. Nearby Objects
Telephone or high-voltage lines; dam, lake
or reservoir; swamp or marsh; river; high
building, tall chimney, steeples,spires or
masts; airfields, generating
factories or lighted sites, or lighting
L. To Whom Reported
Police, Military org. the press, etc.
M. Name and Address of Informant
N. Any Background Information
that may be Volunt•er•d
of R•port
NO

• -r.t_Prv L
-/I ------

-


c._ \._6A-(.2._ r-V \ <5\--\ T

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or:::- e:,' wA\
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CWD153 01/1325 091C1129
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 010850Z APR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO I•IODUI< AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310115Z MAR 93 30 SECONDS
t
, ,
, FEED
, DIRECTION
B. TWO WHITE LIGHTS TRAVELLING AT HIGH SPEED, FORTY TO FIFTY FEET
APART
C. Y HAMPSHII=i:E OUTDOOf::S AND STATIOI,IARY
D. l'iAK ED EYE
E. NORTH TO SOUTH
F. 300 - 400FT AGL
G. OVERHEAD
H. HIGH SPEED
J. REASONABLY CLEAR, SLIGHT OVERCAST
K. LOCAL HILL <COSLEY HILL)
L TCO:MIDDLE WALLOP
,.,
I-IA11PSHIRE
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0003 UNCLAS
N. AVIATOR WITH ARMY FLYING ASSOCIATION. ENGINEER AND BOOKING
SECRETARY
I
P. 010845Z APR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
F
CAB 1 SECCAS> ACTION < CXV
t AFDO )
CYD 1 DD GE/AEW
CAP 1 DI 55
U N C L A S S I F I E D
' •' .,.·.""''"'I::..;:/, ::..... .• ....... •
\
CAB123 31/1257 090C2197
FOR Cf.iB
ROUTINE 311220Z MAR 93
FROM RAF CHIVENOR
TO i"'IODU!< 1!1If;:
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SUBJECT AERIAL PHENOMENAL
A. 310120L MAR 93
B. 3. LARGE. VERY BRIGHT LIGHT
C. BRAUNTON BURROWS/OUTDOORS/WALKING
t
FEED
DIRECTION
D. I.,IAI<ED EYE
E. OBJECT FLEW CJVER FF:D!'I !3EE!"•!ED fO I!'l
DUNES
1:· • l'i I 1...
G. H/i<
H.
,J. cu::r.w Y
L. REPORTED TO RAF CHIVENOR OPERATIONS ALSO SEEN BY POLICE PATROL
PASSING BURROWS IN CAR
0. POLICE OFFICERS PLUS FRIENDS
P. 3112301... MAR 93
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
F

CYD

1 SECCAS) ACTION < CXV
l. :OD GE/ t"iEl.J
1. !) 1
:i. f.1FDD
CWD203 31/1158 090C1975
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 311050Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO I"'ODUK A I R
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310010Z MAR 93
t
FEED
DIRECTION
B. TWO, VERY BRIGHT, STAR LIKE OBJECTS IN A ECHELON MILITARY
FORMATION LEAD OBJECT HAD POINTED TAIL OTHER HAD GOLD TAIL
C. OUTDOORS, STATIONARY
D. NAKED EYE
E. EAST TO WEST, SOUTH OF
F. LOW
G. APPROX 20 Kt'l
H" STEADY
,J.. VERY CLEAR
1"1.
BR
N. BA HISTORY GRADUATE
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0006 UNCLAS
0. THREE OTHERS AGED 20-24
P. 3110152
l:H
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
F
CAB 1 SECCAS) ACTION < CXV
CYD 1 DD GE/AEW
CP1F' 1 DI 55
EAST
1 AFDO )
CWD151 31/1002 090C1243
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 310730Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
U N C L A S S I F I E D
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
t
FEED
DIRECTION
A. 310110A MAR 93. 2 TO 3 MINUTES
IN COLOUR
D. NAKED EYE
E. OVERHEAD MOVING NORTH
r. LOW, APPROX 100-200 METRES
G. OVERHEAII
H. VERY SLOW
J. CLEAR
ft3
L. POLICE
YR TYDFIL, CENTRAL POLICE STATION, SWAN STREET,
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0005 UNCLAS
0. OTHER POLICE OFFICERS
P. 310154A MAR 93
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A. 310055A MAR 93
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C. INDOORSp MOVING
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PAGE 2 RBDAID 0004 UNCLAS
P. 310334A MAR 93
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heights are unreliable)
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spires, TV or radio masts,
airfields, generating plant,
factories, pits or other sites with
floodlights or night lighting)

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K. To whom reported (Police, military,
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L. Name & Address of Informant
M. Background of Informant that
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N. Other Witnesses
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P. Any Unusual Meteorological
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Official commu1JiCations to btl addrflssfld:- "Offict1r in Chargfl" (addl'tlss as bfllow)
STAFFORDSHIRE POLICE
Telephone: Cannock 574545
Pollee Station,
Wolverhampton Road,
Cannock,
Our Ref.
Your Ref.
CAN/JC/SAT
Department of Trade and Industry,
National Air Traffic Control Services,
1 Victoria Street,
London SWlH OET
Dear Sirs,
Staffs.
WS111AW
7th May, 1993
I attach hereto copy reports received from my officers in connection
with alleged sightings of unidentified flying objects.
Yours faithfully,
The person dealing with this correspondence Is:
• ..'t
, . (
Staffordshire Police
FROM: P.C.
TO:
SUPT.
SUBJECT: U.F.O. REPORT
Your Reference:
Our Reference:
STATION: RUGELEY
DATE: 31.3.93
Form No. 65
1. With reference to the attached report by P.c.lllllllllllllll
concerning a U.F.O. being sighted in the
has been received by myself from
a Military Police at R.A.F. Cosford.
2. Cpl me that from enquiries he has made
he nas further sightings of the U.F.O. in Bristol at
0100 hours by an Andrew Hughes at'Bristol Airport, at
Ternhill Barracks at 0200 hours by two guards on duty
there and at R.A.F. ·stafford where two guards also saw
it travelling at a speed of approximately '400 knots'
on a very low flight path.
3. informed me that he has liaised with R.A.F.
Shrewsbury, informed him that he had seen
a U.F.O. in th ravelling at high speed but riding
erratically at different He observed it for
approx. 15 minutes until it went off at speed (400 knots)
in a southern direction.
4. Enquiries have been made with all aviation centres and
there was no activity in the area at all by any military
or civil aeroplanes.
5. All the above information has been recorded at R.A.F. Cosford
and a separate report has been compiled by
6. If any more information is required it can be
The Militar Police at R.A.F. Cosford Tel. No
Extension
Cont'd Overleaf I Sheet No.
Form No. 65
Staffordshire Police
Your Reference:
Our Reference:
FROM: P.C. STATION: RUGELEY
TO:
SUBJECT:
1.
DATE: 31st March, 1993
REPORT OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT
, 1993 a
ce
in the Brereton area.
Rugeley, reported
d sighted a U.F.O.
informant was visited and
obtained: the following details were
A TIME - 0109 hrs
DATE - 31.3.93
DURATION OF SIGHTING - Approx. 1 minute
B DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT
Shape - Oval
Size - Approximately 150 metres in length
Colour - Unable to state colour.
Brightness - The object had lights at each end which
were cream and very bright
Sound - Loud humming noise.
C EXACT POSITION OBSERVED
The informant sighted the object whilst stood in the
garden of his home address.
D HOW OBSERVED
Naked eye
E DIRECTION IN WHICH OBJECT WAS FIRST SEEN
F
G
H
J
The informant saw the object over the Stile Cop area
of Cannock Chase.
ANGLE OF SIGHT
Approximately 45 degrees
DISTANCE
Approximately
3
of a mile
4
MOVEMENTS
' .
Moved away into the distance slowly
METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS
Dry and Clear
Cont'd
2
Sheet No . .................... .
Form No. 65A
-3-
1. I would ask that a copy of this report be forwarded as outlined
in Minute 1 (2) above.
26 April 1993
PAB.
4
1.
This type of report need not be referred to
Headquarters and may be forwarded direct to the
of Trade and Industry.
5th May, 1993.
D - U - F - 0 - R - 0
(Devon UFO Research Organisation)
Ref: Case No 933
Tel:
26th May 1993
Staff)
Ministry Of Defence
Main Building
Whitehall
London SW1A 2HB

2a Room 8245
Firstly, many thanks for your help over the last few weeks, it
really has been appreciated.
Just a quick update on the of 30th/31st March 1993 re:
the sightings here in the Westcountry.
It is almost certain that the majority of the 1.10am sightings
were in fact the re-entry of a Russian second stage rocket that
had put a Cosmos Radio Satellite (2238) into orbit sometime
before midnight.
What we don't know is what the object or objects seen at 1.30am
over St Ives, Cornwall and 2.00am over Bridgewater, Somerset
and indeed the hovering object(s) seen over Nth Devon between
8.00pm and 11.00pm on the 30th!
From the evidence to date, something was most definitely
haunting the sky over Nth Devon on the evening of the 30th and
I have substantiated reports confirming this.
The 2.00am Bridgewater sighting also appears to be genuine and
I can see no reason to doubt it.
/2
'· I

(2)
Then there is the collection of sightings you kindly gave me
covering Avon, Shropshire and South Yorkshire up to 2.40am on
the 31st - it certainly was a busy night for something.
At the moment I am busy putting together • 16 page r e p o ~ t on
these events and once completed will despatch it to the
appropriate authorities - you will of course receive a copy.
However, before finalising this report, I wondered if you had
been able to obtain any information re: the two fighter
aircraft seen over Devon at 1.30am on the 31st or the 3
helicopters seen over and around Bridgewater at 1.30am also on
the 31st.
Could I please ask if you could once again check your records
and ascertain, if possible, what they were doing! I realise
this may be difficult, but I do honestly believe that they have
a bearing on this case.
Once again, many thanks for your help to date and do hope I,m
not causing you any undue trouble or inconvenience.
Kind regards

D - U - F - 0 - R - 0
(Devon UFO Research Organisation)
Ref: Case No 933
~ A i r Staff)
Ministry Of Defence
Main Building
Whitehall
London SW1A 2HB
Dear
26th May 1993
2a Room 8245
Thankyou for your letter received today in reply to mine of the
26th May last.
As promised please find enclosed a copy of my report re: the
events of the night 30th/31st March 1993. As is usual with
these types of cases once the event has passed there is not
much more we can do with it. Our only hope is that something
else might pop out of the woodwork at a later date to throw
some light on it. ·
There appears to have been a lot of ufo activity over the last
few months particularly in the Gwent area of South Wales. Some
of the sightings are very similar to the events in that area in
1980 and 1982 which were in themselves quite extraordinary -
but again once reported upon what else can we do. One day
perhaps we shall have a landing or some tangible evidence of
what these 'things' are and more importantly - what their
doing!
I hope you find the report of some interest and if you have any
ideas or theories on this event please let me know.
Once again many thanks for your help and look forward to
speaking to you again.
Kind regards

D - U - F - 0 - R - 0
(Devon UFO Research Organisation)
INVESTIGATION REPORT
20th May 1 ~ 9 3
'
CASE NO 933
'The Wales and Westcountry Sightings'
30th I 31st March 1993
This report has been compiled with information om,
and with the much appreciated co-operation of
Chairman of the Plymouth UFO Research Grou
It also includes information receiv
Ministry of Defence (Sec Air)2
Astronomical Association (BAA),
correspondent for BBC·Radio 4,
members of the Devon & Cornwall Police Force and numerous
members of the British public living in Wales, Cornwall, Devon
and Somerset.
Introduction
On Wednesday t h ~ 31st March 1993, at a prox 2.20am, I received
a telephone call from Sgt J. f the Devon & Cornwall
Police Force. He is stationed at Bodmin, Cornwall and was
reporting an incident that had occurred at 1.10am that morning
whilst on duty near Liskeard. Briefly he reported that at
1.10am, whilst driving towards Dobwalls on the A38, he noticed
2 very bright lights of obJects hovering at about 2,000' above
the N.W. Horizon. Knowing the night sky fairly well he
immediately realised that 'they' were not stars and did not
conform to any known aircraft or their navigation lights.
At this point he stopped his patrol car and got out. he watched
the objects for a few seconds and was amazed to see them
suddenly start to ascend at a fairly fast rate of knots.
/2

(2)
They seemed to move in an arc over his position and disappeared
to the south. At their highest point, about *10,000' 2 vapour
like trails appeared behind each obJect and they appeared to
be self luminous. * This height is based on information
obtained from the control tower at Exeter Airport later that
day.
At the end of his r e p o r t ~ Sgt
informed me that several
other police officers had made similar reports to their
operations room at Exeter.
Shortly after this call, I contacted the Ops. Room at Exeter
and was told that they had received a number of reports, all
from police officers on duty within the counties of Cornwall
and Devon. They also said that 2 other officers of the Gwent
Police Force, had also logged a similar report.
In total I was given the names and contact addresses of 11
officers. In addition I was informed that 2 other officers who
were on a special surveillance operation somewhere in East
Devon,had also reported something very similar. unfortunately,
I was unable to obtain these officers names and can do no more
than note their sightings.
During that day, I managed to contact (by phone) all the
officers concerned and after taking details of their sightings
and with their permission despatched each a copy of our UFO
report forms for completion and return.
* Strangely, to date I have only received back 3 completed sets
of forms and what is even more puzzling, is the fact that all
of these have been from police sergeants - ~ from police
constables! Whether there is a particular reason for this
remains to be seen, but it does seem a bit odd to say the
least.
/3

(3)
From the original phone reports and the returned report forms a
fairly comprehensive picture of the nights events soon became
apparent.
*At appendix 'A' to this report is a summary of these reports,
coupled with others received from members of the public during
the course of the investigation.
I
.
What emerged from these reports,( with the exception of Sgt
(Liskeard) and Sgt (Lynton) was that they all
virtually told the same story - this is as follows:
The time is 1.10am on the 31st March 1993, and a number of
police officers on duty within Devon & Cornwall, observed 2
very bright white lights or objects, traversing the sky from
the N.W. to the S.E., and at a high altitude. All report seeing
some sort of vapour trails behind and staying with the objects.
Most had problems in describing these 'trails' but most thought
they were self luminous or lit by some light source from the
objects. What is certain is that they were not the usual vapour
trails associated with high flying conventional aircraft; Most
reported the objects as fairly fast - somewhat faster than a
Jet aircraft. In addition all reported that the objects were
completely silent.
As stated earlier all the reports are very similar, given due
regard to these officers knowledge or otherwise of the night
sky and their abilities to judge the height or speed of objects
traversing it. This is not doubting these officers truthfulness
or their observation powers, but I do think it's a case of
'horses for courses'. Objects in the night sky, as we all know,
can be very deceptive and this is particular so when uncommon
phenomenon such as decaying space hardware is concerned.
/4

(4)
Most of these reports (if not all!) were, I have reason to
believe, their observations of a Russian 2nd stage launch
vehicle of the Tsyklon class, which had previously (about
midnight) put into orbit a Cosmos 2238 Satellite. Its return to
earth had occurred at approx 1.05am and was first seen over
t
Innis, Ireland at that time. From its orbital of 65
degrees it would have traversed the sky at a height of between
80kms and 100kms in a S.E. direction. If it did cross Innis at
1.05am and I have reliable evidence to support this, then it
would have crossed Lands End shortly after - approx 1.10am.
Given the officers locations in Cornwall & Devon, it .is I
believe reasonable to assume that what they saw was the re-
entry of this space vehicle. However, at this time a final
conclusion cannot be given, until receipt of a report from a
BUFORA investigation team in Ireland, which will hopefully
confirm the spent rockets course over Innis.
This leaves me with the problem' of the reports from Sgt
and Sgt they tell a different story!
in company with P.c.llllllll were approaching the
the coast town of Lynton, Nth Devon, at 1.10am. Their direction
of travel was due north and as they neared the town they
noticed 2 very bright lights approaching from the north across
the Bristol Channel. Stopping their patrol car they watched as
the lights drew nearer to them. The lights or object(s) passed
to the west going in a S.Easterly direction. As it I they
passed over, they noticed a third light, much smaller than the
other two and positioned somewhere between them. Sgt
states - that as it silently by, he got the impression
that the lights were attached to a very large object, but could
not make out any shape of other details. As it went away from
from them, both officers saw two white vapour like trails
/5
• _j -·:.) ( t
(5)
behind each light. They described these trails as 'self
luminous' but not the same as normal aircraft vapour - more
like beams of light! They estimated the elevation of the
objects to be 40 degrees to the horizon at a distance of
between 1,000' and 2,000'.
This is obviously at variance to
I
the other reports, but would
seem to substantiate Sgt
time s.w. of their position and
mode N.W. of hid position. this
report who was at the same
saw the objects in a stationary
suggests that both the Sgts
sighting are in many respects different to the others and
indicate that their objects were extremely low and appeared to
have the ability to stop and hover!
I personally have no doubts about their sightings, because, as
whereas some people may have difficulty in judging objects at
great height, I hardly think these officers could be mistaken
in their judgements - 2,000' is one thing, but anywhere between
10,000' and 80kms is another. It is therefore my considered
opinion that these two sightings sightings are of different to
that of the re-entry rocket and may be associated with certain
\
other events that took place later in the morning, at 2.00am
and indeed the previous evening between 8.00pm and 11.00pm over
Nth devon.
Most of these reports were received following the publication
of some news articles in two local papers. (Honiton News &
Somerset Gazette) The articles did not specify the type of
objects seen or the time. As a result I received a large number
of phone calls from members of the public and another police
officer, this time from Somerset. After evaluating these
reports and filing away those which I considered were not
relevant to this case, it became apparent that in addition to
the initial 1.10am police reports, there were a number which
were very similar and did therefore have some association.
/6


(6)
In an effort to give these events some clarity - they have been
separated into groups with each group being given its own
heading, they are as follows:-
Event
'A'
'B'
'c'
'D'
'E'
'F'
Place
Date
Innis, Ireland
31/3/93
* Wales, Cornwall, Devon
31/3/93
and Somerset.
Bridgewater, Somerset
31/3/93
North Devon
30/3/93
St Ives & Penzance,
31/3/93
Cornwall
**Wales, Westcountry,'Avon, 30-31/3/93
Shropshire, Sth Yorkshire
t
.
Time
1.0Sam
1.10am to
1.17am
2.00am
7.00pm to
11.00pm
1.30am
Various
* The reports associated with this event include those received
from the police officers who initially saw the objects at
01.10am on 31/3/93.
** These reports are the subject of a letter received from the
MoD (Sec Air)2a giving some details of reports received by
them. They are thought to be associated with the events of
30-31/3/93 because of the similarities between them and those
already known to me.
/7
(7)
Investigation
Event 'A' Innis, Ireland.
This event occurred at l.OSam on Wednesday 31st March 1993 over
Innis, Ireland, when 2 bright lights were observed traversing
. I
the sky. It is believed that they were seen at high altitude,
displaying white vapour trails. they appeared to be flying
parallel to each other, on a N.W. to S.E. course. Evidently
this sighting caused some concern to the Irish Government and
as a consequence a fighter aircraft was despatched to monitor
the objects. It seems the operation was not successful as the
objects were thought to have been travelling at about 3,000mph
- obviously to fast for the jets. The full details of this
sighting are not yet to hand, but it is thought to be basically
correct.
As with the 1.10am police reports and some of the other 1.10am
reports, this sighting is also believed to be result of the
previously mention rocket re-entry, but more of that later!
* Information supplied by
based in Dublin.
a BBC Correspondent
Event 'B' - Wales, Cornwall, Devon and Somerset.
At various time between 1.10am and 1.17am on Wednesday 31st
March 1993, 12 people (excluding the original 11 police
officers) reported the sighting of two very bright objects
flying across the night sky in a south easterly direction. With
the exception of one, they all report seeing some sort of
vapour trails, but describe them slightly differently! In the
main they were white, and trailed back from the objects and
appeared to be self luminous.
/8
·/)
I ) :, .. ' I '1:

(8)
This indicates that they were not normal jet aircraft trails,
but do seem synonymous with something like the trail of a
'shooting star'.
After evaluating these reports and g ~ v ~ n g due regards to
peoples different perspectives of the objects, it is reasonable
. t
to assume that they, like the police officers, had also
observed the spent rocket on its south easterly travels.
As a footnote, I have also received a report from
~ the British Astronomical Association, that two people,
one in Belgium and one from the south of France, also observed
some bright objects flying in a south easterly direction. The
French report indicates a number of objects (6 or 7) and this
I believe is the breakup of the original two seen earlier over
Ireland and the south west coast of England. The Belgium report
is not very comprehensive, but the 'sighter' is believed to
have seen them from his location, most probably over France,
but not over Belgium.
What is evident here, is that although I cannot be absolutely
certain that the two objects seen was the re-entry of the
Russian Space Rockets, their presence at this time and their
reported locations, must be a strong consideration. Given the
known height of these objects - between 80kms and 100kms, and
the time they would have taken to traverse from horizon to
horizon, some 2 to 3 minutes and certainly not less than one
minute, then it can be reasonable assumed that from their known
flight path i.e. from Ireland over Lands End and on over
France, they would easily have been seen from as far away as
Somerset and most probably even further! On the night in
question there was very little cloud cover, which would have
afforded all of the 'sighters' a clear view for many miles.
(9)

(9)
At this point, given all the known facts, what we are dealing
with is the following scenario:-
At sometime between 1.10am and 1.17am two very bright white
objects with some sort of vapour trails, were observed flying
N.W. to S.E. at high altitude and parallel to each other and
I
appear to have been on a pre-determined course. There were I
believe the remnants of a Russian Space Rocket that had earlier
deposited a Cosmos Radio Satellite into orbit.
But, at the same time i.e. 1.10am, two brightly lit objects or
a very large one with two lights attached, crossed the Bristol
Channel, flew low over Lynton and somewhere between there and
Liskeard came to a halt and hovered for a few seconds. They /it
then ascended at great speed to about 10,000' and then altered
course taking a southerly course over the English Channel.
If the information contained in the letter from the MoD is
correct, then the object or objects were later seen over or
near Bristol, Avon, at approx 1.15am heading south easterly!
Also, if the MoD information is'correct, similar objects were
seen between 9.10pm on the 30th March 1993 and 2.40am on the
31st covering area from Cornwall to South Yorkshire! The
implication of this being that some 4 hours before the re-entry
an 'unknown' object or objects were flying across the
Westcountry up into Avon and on to South Yorkshire with the
last known sighting over Shropshire at 2.40am. It also
indicates that the objects appeared to be crisscrossing these
areas during this period.
(10)
' ,

(10)
Event 'C' - Bridgewater, Somerset.
On Wednesday 31st March 1993, a group of fishermen (known as
Elvers) were fishing the river Parrot, Nr Bridgewater,
Somerset. At approx 1.30am they noticed 3 military type
helicopters flying in a radius from Bridgewater to Hinkley
. '
Point. This activity was observed for some 30 minutes or so. At
a little before 2.00am the 'elvers' saw two bright orange
coloured lights approaching from the north. As they drew
closer, the 'elvers', who had previously thought they were the
returning helicopters, realised they were not. Firstly there
was the absence of any engine or rotor blade noise and
navigation lights. The objects approached their position at a
steady pace, not over fast, and appeared to be at a height of
about 800'. On their final approach, in addition to the orange
lights seen, two very bright white lights seem to be glowing
from the rear of the objects. As they passed overhead, one of
the elvers thought the objects were joined by
some sort of structure and likened this to a 'Large Catamaran'
As the object(s) cleared their position, two very bright light
sources were seen at the rear of the 'craft' throwing light
beams backwards. These were described a
What amazed the sighters most (
car
and
was the complete absence of any noise, in fact quite the
opposite - deathly silence! the objects proceeded on a south
easterly course towards Dorset and were in view for 2 to 3
minutes before disappearing.
I have personally spoken to both of
received a written report from one has
)
not returned his report form and this I believe is because he
has difficulty in writing - (don't we all!). and therefore feel
it best not to persue the matter any further.
(11)

(11)
One other interesting point that I noted during conversation
with was this. During the early hours,
somewhere between midnight and 1.00am, the cows occupying an
adjacent field appeared to be very restless,
was very unusual. Just after their sighting,
their wives, were astonished to see all the cows
congregated in the middle of the field. They were all facing
each other in a circular formation and had gone very quiet!
This is also I'm told very unusual.
Event 'D' - Nth Devon and Somerset.
During the evening of Tuesday 30th March 1993, 6 independent
witnesses reported an object or objects flying over and or
hovering over Somerset and Nth Devon.
The first sighting occurred at 9.00pm, when
nd
observed two glowing white/orange objects hovering north west
of her position. At the time sne was travelling from her home
at Kington-St-Mary, Somerset, towards Bishops Lydeard and
thought they were somewhere above or just beyond the town. They
remained stationary for some 2 or 3 minutes, were very silent
and got the feeling that 'something was going to
happen' as everything seemed to have gone very quiet.! She
eventually lost sight of the objects behind some clouds.
a local business man, who lives at
Lydeard-St-Lawrence, Somerset, - just
north of Bishops Lydeard, had gone out into his garden to feed
his fish. It was about 8.00pm and on looking up observed a
triangular formation of 3 objects approx 5 miles north west of
his home. They were brightly lit (self luminous) and each
object was larger than a star.
(12)
(12)
He likened them to golf balls, two at the top with the other
oo
immediately below ( o ). From the lowest object a light beam
seemed to be shining down at an angle of about 45
kept the objects in view for a little over 3 hours.
During this time his daughter d also been out to see
I
the objects and has confirmed the sighting. ·
At this point I think it is worth pointing out that from the
evidence the object(s) seen by and that by
one and the same. The direction is right i.e.N.W.
are probably
and although
Lydeard I think
feels the object(s) were over Bishops
in this she could be mistaken and that they
were a bit further away towards the N.W.
The third report came from is stationed at
Bishops Lydeard. His report (by phone) was as follows: At
approx 9.00pm he was up on the Quantock Hills, Nth Somerset,
with a group of Scouts carrying out some field exercises, when
his attention was drawn to a of bright lights
approaching from the north west. They appeared to be at a
height of about 3,000' and travelling at a constant speed, but
not over fast! As the lights got closer he made out the outline
of a large craft, which he said "looked like two Concords
flying side by side and joined together". the lights he had
seen appeared to be around the object(s) and were similar to
cabin lights on an aircraft, only much brighter. the object
passed to his left and after 2 or 3 minutes was lost to sight
as it proceeded on a south easterly course.
Strangely, as with the other P.Cs, despite agreeing to complete
a report form, this has never been returned - I wonder why?
(13)
(13)
At approx 10.30pm, s
standing outside his.home at
Bishops Lydeard when he noticed a brightly lit object
approaching from the south. At arms length he describes the
object as about the size of a Zippo Lighter and had 6 rows of
I
lights numbering 30 in all. They were in two sections of 15
:hi0 of
5 lights in each.
The objects speed was similar to a jet aircraft and appeared to
be at a high altitude. Because of this d the
object in sight for nearly 15 minutes before it disappeared to
the north. Some 5 minutes after the event observed a
civil airliner on the same course at approx the same altitude
and he was able to identify this without any problem.
The 5th report came from who lives in Taunton,
Somerset. At approx 10.20pm ( maybe a bit later) he observed 2
white lights, apparently connected, flying parallel to each
other in an easterly direction. Again there was no noise from
the objects and they appeared to be moving very fast. He gave
the length of his sighting as 2 minutes and is convinced it
/they was not an aircraft.
The 6th and last report for this evening, came from
lllllllfkho lives at Milverton, Devon. At sometime before
midnight - about 11.30pm, he saw 2 groups of lights flying
along side each other. He describes them as 2 objects with 3
lights in a triangular formation. He says that they were moving
very fast and watched them for 2 minutes before they
disappeared in a south westerly direction.
/14
(14)
Notes
From these reports it is obvious that during the evening
(8.00pm to 11.00pm) an object or objects were clearly visable
and seen hovering over Nth Devon. This is substantiated by ~
in their reports. In addition other objects
t
of a similar type, were seen traversing the sky from· north to
south and south to north. Although the reports are not
identical, i.e. they are different in their descriptions, they
do indicate that a fairly large twin hulled craft was airborne
that evening and flying low over some areas. What this object
was, is of course unknown and must therefore, temporally at
least, be classed as an Unidentified Flying Object!
Event 'E'
- St Ives & Penzance, Cornwall
At just before 1.30am on Wednesday 31st March 1993, two men
living in St Ives, Cornwall, observed two very bright objects
flying on a N.N.W. to S.S.E. course over the town. Their height
was estimated to be about 2,000' and were described as rockets
with light trails. they were moving very fast and were only in
sight for 5 to 10 seconds. At one stage one of the sighters
thought that the two lights to d
come on brightly again. The other observer
not see this particular effect. He, however, only had the
objects in sight for a couple of seconds.
Meanwhile, who lives at Crowles, Nr Penzance, was
himself watching two very bright objects, with trails, heading
S.E. at a very low altitude 2,000' to 3,000'. He also observed
a third object behind the other two, but was less bright. none
of the objects made any noise and the light trails "were" he
said "thin and straight like a light tube". At the rear of the
/15
(15)
2 large objects he also noticed a pink and blue light source
but was unable to say if they were attached to the objects or
the smaller one flying close by. From his southerly position
the objects were to the north and not moving very fast. In fact
he had them in sight for at least 2 minutes. this of course is
. I
at variance with the other two sighters at St Ives, who said
their objects were very fast!, but this maybe because they saw
the objects overhead whilst was looking at them from
a distance. It's my belief that this sighting was of the same 2
objects seen over St Ives only from a different location and
therefore different line of sight.
Event 'F' - Ministry of Defence reports 30th/31st March 1993
During the course of this investigation, I received a non Ufo
report from a gentleman (name on file) who is a recently
retired airline pilot. he had phoned me in response to one of
the local newspaper articles and thought he had the answer to
this case? He told me that at·1.30am on Wednesday 31st March
1993, he had observed two Jet Fighter Aircraft travelling at
30,000' in a westerly direction and at a very fast speed -
about 1,500mph. They had their 'after burners' on which
indicated they may still have been climbing! As an airline
pilot he was well qualified to identify these 'jets' and was
also certain that they were of a single engine type. Once I
explained our sightings, ( at this time I only had a number of
l.lOam sightings) it was fairly obvious that his sighting was
not connected to my reports - or was it?
Thanking him for this information, I resolved to contact the
MoD to try and ascertain if they had any knowledge of these
aircraft. The next day I phoned at the MoD (Sec Air)
2a office and relayed my information to him. He was most
helpful and promised to look into it for me - and would ring
/16
(16)
back. About an hour later he did, but what he had to tell me
was nothing short of amazing. He had been unable to discover
any details regarding these aircraft and was at a loss to
explain their presence over East Devon at the time. To his
knowledge there had not been any flyovers by RAF, NATO or other
aircraft and stated that all known flights would moJt certainly
have been logged and they was no way that aircraft of this type
could fly over Britain without the MoD's knowledge.
However, having explained to him why I was making this enquiry
he did tell me that 'they' also had received a number of calls
and letters reporting the same kind of 'objects' i.e. two very
bright lights traversing the sky during the evening of the 30th
and early morning of the 31st March 1993. Upon request, he
later sent me a list of these sightings, giving locations,
times and directions of travel. A study of these locations and
times was most informative and I have to say, also somewhat
puzzling. Because I had of my reports, some
of these were mine and were in accordance with them. There
were, however, a number which were not. Briefly his reports
covered the period lO.lOpm on the 30th to 02.40am on the 31st,
and indicated that these objects had been seen as far north as
South Yorkshire, Shropshire and the counties of Cornwall, Devon
and Hampshire - all at different times and in many cases flying
in different directions!
This as you can imagine was very confusing. For example, there
were 3 sightings from South Yorkshire, all at different times
i.e. 9.10pm, 11.40pm & 1.17am. the 9.10pm sighting had the
objects travelling S.E., the 11.40pm ones travelling north
whilst the 9.10pm ones were unknown. In addition there was a
sighting from Bristol at !.lOam but these objects were
travelling westwards - and so it went on. * A copy of the MoD
report with map is attached to this report.
/17
(17)
What all this means is anybody's guess. Was the information
correct and I see no reason why it shouldn't be, or was it
incorrect and a ·deliberate ploy to confuse the issue and try to
put me off the scent? - I really don't know.
If correct, and lets suppose it is, then this surely means that
not only were there 'unknown' objects flying and hovering over
the westcountry between 8.00pm and 2.00am on the night, but
were also tracking across the Midlands, South Yorkshire and
Hampshire - what were they doing?
Conclusions
As a Ufo researcher, it's my job to try and evaluate all
reports and information received in an objective and hopefully
methodical way. This case has, to date, shown all the hallmarks
of a typical ufo event with evidence swaying the urgently
sought answers one way and then the other. Were the events on
this night nothing more or less· than the re-entry of a man made
space vehicle, or was it a ufo phenomenon related to that
event? I think it may well be the latter. My reasons for
thinking this are twofold.
Firstly, there is no doubt that the re-entry took place and
that this occurred at approximately Ol.OSam on the 31st. From
the evidence collected and collated it is almost certainly a
fact that the reports describing the events at l.lOam indicate
that what these people witnessed was the re-entry of this
missile. The heights given are synonymous with a re-entry of
this kind and the length of 'sighting time' likewise. All the
'sighters' give the objects direction of flight as N.W. to S.E.
or N. to S. giving some margin of error and this would
certainly been the spent rockets course.
/18
.. .. .--.. ·.·)·
~ j 1 ~ . J · I
4
J.
(18)
This I believe, is evidence enough to suggest that this is
exactly what these people saw - a rocket re-entry.
What is also evident is that on the evening before, between
8.00pm and 11.00pm, objects were seen traversing the North
Devon sky and indeed hovering N.W. of the same qreaJ In
addition it is fairly certain that at 2.00am on the 31st, an
object of some considerable size, flew over the River Parrot at
Bridgewater, disturbing not only the local fishermen, but also
the cattle in the adjacent fields. Also at this time we have
the mystery of the 3 helicopters seen. They were almost
certainly of a military type, but as with the 2 fighter
aircraft over East Devon earlier, their presence has been
denied by the MoD - Why?
In association with this we have the 1.30am sightings at St
Ives and Penzance and the other numerous sightings over
Cornwall, Devon, Shropshire, South Yorkshire and Hampshire,
starting at 10.10pm on the 30th and ending at 2.40am on the
31st.
If these reports are correct, and as I said earlier, I have no
reason to doubt them and my reports are also correct, then it
must be the case that at least one, if not more, unidentified
flying objects were active over these areas on the night in
question - but what was their purpose? Were they I it here on a
specific mission, or just carryingout a nighttime surveillance
operation. The latter scenario is of course quite feasibly
given what we already know from their well documented past, but
what about the first proposition?
Well if we examine the evidence and what we already know about
this alleged mode of operation, there is clearly a case for
this line of thinking.
In Timothy Goods latest book 'Alien Update' he edits a whole
chapter on this very subject. He cites a number of cases from
/19
/19
(19)
Russia where ufos have been observed tracking rocket launches,
space flights and more importantly their re-entry procedures.
It seems that this activity has been monitored for some years
and that the Soviet Authorities are fully aware that their
space program has been subjected to some very i n t e n ~ e scrutiny
by unidentified objects, which appear disc like and are able to
traverse their air space at will, and in some extraordinary
ways!
Additionally, it seems that Britain has also been the victim of
such activity. In her new book 'From Out Of The Blue' Jenny
Randles also explores this possibility. This book is the follow
up to another entitled 'Sky Crash' which she co-authored with
Dot Street and Brenda Butler and is more than just a
spectacular account of a ufo landing in Rendlesham Forest,
Suffolk, Nr the Bentwaters Air Base jointly manned by the RAF
and USAF. Around the time of the alleged landing it is known
that a similar re-entry of a Russian space rocket occurred over
the area. Following this, and in addition to the events at the
Bentwaters Base, a number of ufo sightings were received. Some
of the sightings were before the known re-entry time and indeed
after. This strongly implies that some unknown craft was
present over the area and as suggested by Jenny, may have been
interested in the re-entry.
The events at Bentwaters are in themselves quite remarkable and
suggest that a space vehicle of unknown origin actually landed
in Rendlesham Forest and that a possible 'alien liaison' took
place. The evidence presented does seem to substantiate this,
but as with most, if not all of these cases, will we ever learn
the truth!
/20
(20)
Unlike the Bentwaters case, this one has not to date thrown up
any evidence of a ufo landing, but there is certainly enough
evidence to imply a ufo presence over the Westcountry, and
possible other parts of the country, on the evening before and
after the known re-entry of a Russian space rocket at 1.10am.
My gut feeling is that this is exactly what occurred, and until
the present 'unknown object(s) reported upon are identified,
then they should without question be classified for what they
are- 'Unidentified Flying Objects'.
Devon UFO Research Organisation
DUFORO Case No 933
Annex 'A'
WESTCOUNTRY AND WALES SIGHTINGS - 31st March 1993
Event 'B'
Nr Kerris, Cornwall
Oam - 2 very bright lights, travelling fast, flying
parallel with wonderful vapour like trails. *Two smaller trails
to left hand trail! thought there might have been two other
smaller objects. Looking towards moon, from north, very high.
No sound from obJect/s but audible rumbling sound from ground
level. Time of sighting 30 seconds. When in cloud, object/s
illuminated them. Distance apart as seen from the ground = 1"
to
2. Crymyn,
Dy
Time y on hill side approximately 1,000' above sea
level. Attending sheep, observes 2 large white objects, flying
parallel, one slightly in front of the other. Time 2 minutes -
maybe less!, very high- vapour trail.
r rt yr.
ight white (brighter than stars) came
frm north west travelling south east, flying parellel to each
other- approximately same height as conventional aircraft -
steady pace. light vapour trail but third light or vapour trail
between the other two! Sighting time 2 to minutes. No noise.
overhead.
MOD- told no aircraft known to be in the
area.
4. Sgt Bideford
Time 1. East of racombe
driving into Lynton. Looking towar s t e Bristol Channel and
saw two white lights, which they they thought were attached to
a very large Qbject. Estimated distance between lights as 500'.
No sound. passed overhead and headed south , south west.
Time of sighting nds. Height 2,000' plus!
* Same night, PC en-route to Holsworthy after
departing Lynton, o served white lights pass over hjs vehicle
going in south westerly direction.
/2
.. ..
" '
(2)
Bodmin
e am. Two bright slightly yellowish objects I lights,
stationary 2,000' due north of his position - S.E. of Liskeard.
Watched object lift up and ascend banking left towards the S.E.
Object dropped slightly, then climbed and continued S.E. over
Torpoint, Plymouth. No sound. At height (about 10,000') a
vapour like trail appeared and what appeared to be a third
object or light source behind the object. Objects /Lights gave
the impression of being controlled or guided.
Liskeard at approximately the same time, PCs
N.W. of liskeard and saw two
very r g te objects appear from the north and
head towards Liskeard.
6. Plymouth police received a call from a gentleman at approx
1.10am who reported seeing twp white lights flying over Stoke,
Plymouth. Incident not officially logged but noted by officer
on duty!
• Two lights seen over gentlemans house. Report 'with
PURORG).
Exeter.
am Saw two dot ike objects I 1 ghts flying parallel,
high, heading east. Sighting time 15 seconds.
9.* East Devon. Two police officers observe two white objects
flying easterly. Objects seen through binoculars - report to
follow from station Inspector.
tleigh, Devon 1111111111
er am o arge light gold lights
10
heading towards Stockland. No noise, fairly fast, one light
slightly in front of the other!
Wellington, Somerset
ime 1.11am Two bright white lights - like round balls, Small
vapour trails (lit up!) Very high. Speed very fast. No noise.
Time of sighting 20 seconds. Flying pararell N.W to S.E. but
could have been West to East!
(3)
12 Taunton, Somerset ••
t white I yellowish obJects,
parellel to each other. Long vapour trail - not smoke!
ObJects approx 3" apart at height. Very high but not star
height! Time of sighting 20 seconds. Passed left to right in a
southerly direction.
13. Taunton Man - Wishes to remain anonymous.
Time 1.13am two very large luminous obJects - glowing, silent.
After glow that stayed with objects - (fluorescent).
Speed- Gliding very fast. Direction N.N.W. to S.E. Seemed to
turn right. Time of sighting 2 minutes. Objects 2" to 3" apart
at height. Seen through binoculars. Felt compelled to get up
and go outside. No noise.
14 Taunton, Somerset.Time
1. rpor • Saw two bright white
trail. Thought vapour trail was lit
up by another light source! Very high in sky, appeared cigar
shaped and silver in colour. Flying parellel (in tandem) in an
easterly direction, south of his position. Objects appeared 6"
to 7" apart at height. No noise.
15. Bridgewater,
Somerse
Time 1.1 am ls of light - followed by vapour trail or a
light! No noise. Flying over Bridgewater in a south easterly
direction. Knew it was not an aircraft!.
16. PC Wiveliscombe,
Somerse me t o ects - vapour
like trail. From obJect/light appeared to be a long
light shining backwards! Height 10,000' Speed 2 or 3 times
faster than a jet airliner. 3" apart at height. Flying N.W. to
S.E. Right object appeared to be leading.
17.
Time
flying parellel, left s
completely silent 'OZ FACTOR?'
seconds. Very low - if piloted
Bridgewater-
s - trail of light behind.
ightly in front. No Noise -
Time of sighting 50 to 55
could have seen pilot.
/4
18.
am o am
vapour reddish/orange
followed by second 30
and aecended to
they /it was going to
direction.
.
I
(4)

o te co oure lights - trailing
in colour! First one object seen, then
seconds later. Flew parellel to each
approximately 2,000'. Observer thought
land! No noise. Flying in easterly
\?
~ L O O " S E MINUTE
"
411P/Sec(AS)12/1
16 Apr 93
Head of Sec(AS) - thro
Copy to:
1. In the early hours of Vednesday 31 March an unidentified object was seen
over several parts of the UK. Most of the sightings were in Devon and Cornwall,
South Vales and Shropshire, although reports were received from other locations.
Ve are aware of at least 30 or 40 people who witnessed something, although this
number is growing.
2. Aside from the fact that so many people reported seeing something
strange, a number of other factors combine to make these sightings highly
unusual; firstly, there is some commonality in the description of the object,
and considerable commonality in the times of the sightings (around 1.10am).
Secondly, none of the usual explanations for UFOs seem applicable, and thirdly,
the reliability of the witnesses, most of whom were police officers, and some of
whom were military and civil aviation personnel. I have attached the report
made by a Corporal at RAF Cosford, together with three of the many other
reports, as illustrations.
3. As far as can be ascertained, no military aircraft of any kind were
operating in UK airspace at the time, as confirmed by both HQ MATO at RAF
Uxbridge, and RAF Vest Drayton.
4. Sector Operations Centre (South) at RAF Neatishead have told D Air Def's
staff that nothing was detected on Air Defence radar. London Air Traffic
Control Centre (Military) confirmed that nothing was detected on Air Traffic
Control radar.
5. RAF Fylingdales told me that a Russian rocket re-entering the atmosphere
at 12.10am would have been visible from the UK, but this time does not match the
majority of the sightings; furthermore, the descriptions from witnesses are not
consistent with this explanation. The Royal Observatory at Greenwich were aware
of no meteorite showers or similar occurrences.
6. DI55c have been consulted, but have not as yet been able to come to any
conclusions about the sightings.
7. Some of the reports state that the object was moving at a very high
speed (one estimate, based on timing the object over a known distance, was of
1100 mph), while some reported that the object hovered, moved slowly, and then
flew off at high speed. This, together with some of the other descriptions
given, suggests Aurora. Notwithstanding the US denials, these sightings might
prompt renewed speculation.
8. The UK's two main UFO groups are well aware of this wave of sightings,
and have told me that they have received many reports themselves. At least one
local newspaper has reported the sightings. Although we have not received any
press enquiries yet, there is always a possibility that questions will be asked,
and it might be difficult to maintain our ·usual line that no further action was
being taken as the sightings had_been looked at, and were judged to be of no
defence significance.
......
. .
c-:-

• 9: • I have spoken to as many of the police and military witnesses as I could
Acontact; nearly everyone I spoke to said that the obje'ct was unlike anything ___ _
,.,they had ever seen before. ·
10. Given the above, it would not seem sufficient to simply write these
sightings off. It seems that an unidentified object of unknown origin was
operating in the UK Air Defence Region without being detected on radar; this
would appear to be of considerable defence significance, and I recommend that we
investigate further, within MOD or with the US authorities.
.·.·. S IF 1 ..
Sec(AS)2a
MB8245 82140MB

MEMORANDUM
To sec (As) 2a
Date 19 April 93
Your ref D/Sec(AS)l2/l
From WO

'l'el Ext
Our ref INC 055/93
Subject !J.FJ) .. •. ...
1. As requested we have completed the radar replay for Wednesday the
31 March, transferring this information onto a video recording for
further examination.
2. I have attached your map on which I have now placed the radar
heads used together with numbers which now relate to individual
timings. Unfortunate! y the·· Cl ee-Hi 11 · radar head was not working on
primary radar during the recording period, therefore, only aircraft
working Secondary Surveillance Radar can be seen.
3. Listed below is the breakdown for each incident time you gave us
which we have now changed to zulu time.
1. 302310z
2. 30231Sz
3. 30235Sz
4. 310009z
SA. 310010z
Clee-Hill
Clee-Hill
Clee-Hill
Clee-Hill
Burrinqton
SB. 3l0010z Clee-Hill
SC. 310010z Clee-Hill
6A. 3l0015z Clee-Hill
Pease Pottage
6B. 310015z Clee-Hill
7. 310020z Burrington
8. N/K
9. 310140z Clee-Hill
Squawk 1461/039 N/E to S/W
Nothing seen.
Traffic out of Bristol going north
4652/086 vicinity Mommoutb 2355z. Squawk
1461/040 vicinity Bristol Filton 2347z
going S/W, changing to 7201.
Squawk 6416/090 northbound.
OOlSz primary contacts slow vicinity of
Launcester and Bodmin.
Northbound traffic on A25 squawk 2363/242.
Nothing seen.
Squawk 4651/110 from the north through
Salisbury Plain area towards southampton.
Squawk 2363/239 north on A25 and squawk
6416/090 lSnm east of Shawbury northbound.
Intermittent slow primary contacts close to
the radar head moving N/E towards Chivenor,
another to south manoeuvring. East of the
radar head primary contact slow heading east.
No times given.
Squawk 2304/200 descending on A25. At 0146z
overhead Shawhury squawk 5231/203 southbound.
5. Unfortunately I would say there was nothing unusual seen on the
radar recordings, I will hold the master tapes and video recordings
until we hear from you. Should you require any further assistance
please call we are only to happy to help.
Rank wo N Signature
L-1 S I 1:1 HOCI.:l 6£:L 86, Cldf:l 6T
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COS/87/2/Sy
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
AAF Police Flight
RAF Cosford
Wolverhampton
West Midlands
WV7 3EX
OC RAF Police Flt Mar 93
Sir,
'
POSSIBL£ UFO SIGHTING$
1. I have tor ford on 31 Mar 93 at 0115 hours in
company with. Cp1 RAF I was on mobile patrol
of Leeming Road, Jacen o e ravel Car Park when I saw two bright
lights in the sky above the Airfield. The lights appeared to be flying
at great velocity in a South Easterly direction at an altitude of
approximately 1000 feet. The lights were circular in shape and gave off
no beam. They were creamy white in colour and constant in size and in
relation to each other.
2. wbrou ht the vehicle to a standstill and pointed out the lights to
Cpl 1 switched off the vehicle engine and we both got out of
the car an observed the lights. There was no sound of any engine noise
despite there being no wind and the sky being free from cloud. The
lights were observed over-flying the Unit and away towards the
Wolverhampton area. A slight red glow could be seen from the rear of
the lights as they disappeared from view over the horizon. The lights
were visible for approximately one minute.
"
3. Myself and Cpl llllllltthen returned to the COC and I contacted RAF
Shawbury. I was there were no aircraft flying from there.
4. · At 0125 hours. I contacted ATC at RAF Lyneham and was informed that
there were no known aircraft in the area of Cosford.
5. At 0127 hoursJ I contacted RAF Brize Norton and was informed the
same.
was informed by the Ord Cpl, a.Mr
Brereton, ,Rugeley,- orted
ame over Rugeley. of Mr
party had also witnessed the lights. Mr had followe t e
lights which he described as being cream 1n co our at an altitude of
900-1000 feet and an estimated · size of 200 metres. H-1 hear a
humming noise as the object flew directly above him. Mr stated
that he believed that the object landed in an area known as azelslade
M
he approached he could not find any signs of the landing. Mr
was instructed to inform his 1oca1 Civil Police Force, which
J and during a subsequent conversation, it wa hed that a
Constable from Staffordshire Police had visited Mr
1. At 0130 hours, I. informed West Mercia Police) WPCIIIIIIIIIbf the
sightings •
..
--------------------- -' .
!REDACTION ON DOCUMENlf . rtt •
...
-
8. At 0140 hours. I informed HQ P&SS (UK), Cpl
incident.
of the
9. At 0142 hours, I informed RAF West Drayton, lt Cdr- the
incident, and he confirmed that there was no military aircraft of any·
kind fn UK airspace and there had not been since 0001 hours.
10. At 0143 hours, the Senior Air Traffic Controller at:Jairmfngham
International Airport was contacted, and he confirmed that'--there were
no civi 1 ian aircraft in Cosford Airspace and had not been· for some
hours.
11. At 0215 hours, OC RAF Police Flt and the Ord Off, Flt Lt-
were informed of the incident.
12. At· 0250 hours, Mr RAF Shawbury Met Office, contacted Cpl

d stated that he seen two lights in the sky at RAF Shawbury.
hts were first sighted approximately 15-20 kms away and Mr
observed them travel towards him over the. Airfield moving
erratically at hundreds of miles per hour unlike any aircraft. He
described the lights as appearing to be searching for something. He
heard a low humming noise and watched the object for 5 minutes until it
disappeared from sight in a southerly direction. Mrllllllll stated that
he had been a Met Officer for 8 years and had like
it before.
13. At 0300 hours, a Mr the Met Officer at
Bristol Airport, who lights had been se,n there at
0055 hours. He had initiallly put the llights down to adverse mete·or
aetivity but in the light of the subsequent reports recorded it as
unidentified. -
14. At 0310 hours, West Mercia Police were made of the further
reports and would contact Staffordshire and Avon & Somerset Forces to
correlate the reports.
15. At 0330 hours I resumed normal duties.
..,_. .
c
..


DOBNO
DATE/
PERSON
OCCURRENCE
ACTiON TAKEN
"!"'ME
REPORTiNG
'.
II.
,
..
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
~
Room 8245
MOD Main Building
Whithall ·
London SW1A 2HB
Dear Mr ..
Tel:
14th March 1993
-·------------------- ·------
Firstly, thankyou for your help when I rang you last week re:
the sighting of an unknown object on Wednesday 31st March '93
over Wales and the Westcountry.
As requested I am enclosing a copy ·of my hastily prepared
Interim Report concerning this event. It will obviously take
some time to collate all the information I receive, but once
this is completed I will let you have a copy of my final
report. ·
I understood from our conversation, that you have also received
some reports of this event and would appreciate anything you
can tell me concerning this. I have no idea at present what
flew over this area on the night in question, all I do know is
that it was very big, was shaped something like a 'Catamaran'
and was completely silent!
Once again many thanks for your help.
Kind regards
..
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT\
INTERIM REPORT
Case No 933
Case Name - 'Westcountry I Wales Sightings - 31st March 1993'
Introduction
At 2.20am on the morning of 31st March 1993, I received phone
call from Sgt f the Devon & Cornwall Police Force
informing me that at 1.10am he had observed 2 very bright white
objects hovering at approximately 2,000' north of his position,
S.E. of Liskeard on the A38. He had been notified of the
objects presence in the area, by two other Police Officers,
P.Cs and These ·officers were travelling
out of Liskeard in a north westerly direction and had
themselves observed the two objects approaching from the N.E.
Sgt atched the objects for a few seconds before they
started to ascend fairly quickly and moved S.E. in an arc to a
height of about 10,000' towards Torpoint, Plymouth, Devon.
Following this report, I contacted the Police Control
Headquarters at Exeter, Devon and was informed by an officer on
duty that they had received a number of similar reports from
other Police Officers in Ilracombe, Plymouth and East Devon.
They also mentioned a report from the South Wales Gwent Police.
Acting on this informition, I telephoned the police station at
Ilfracombe, (Nth Devon) and spoke to a Sgt who
informed me that at approximately l.lOam whilst
into Lynton, with another officer(P.C
driving down
they saw two
/2
\R.EDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(2)
very large bright white lights approaching from the north,
across the Bristol Channel. He estimated their height to be
about 2,000'. As the lights passed both officers
discerned a structure between the lights and estimated that an
object some 500' wide with lights either side had passed
over their heads at low altitude! They logged a
report of this event with their headquarters.
After this call, I contacted the Plymouth police and was
informed that they had received a call, about l.lOana, froni a
5entleman who reported seein5 two very bright lights, flying
fairly hi5h over Stoke (Plymouth) and proceeding in a
S.Easterly direction. Because of the time of night and the
improbability of what the person was reporting, this report was
not officially logged.
Later in the day, I contacted the. police at Merthyr Tydfil
(South Wales) and after some delay obtained the names of two
police officers stationed at Treharris Police Station who had
also reported seeing two very bright white objects/lights
flying across South Wales and heading across the Bristol
Channel. Their report was also timed at about l.lOam.
That evening I contacted the Exeter Police and was given the
names of three police officers who had earlier reported a
sighting. These proved to be a Sgt f>C -and PC
All three officers had been on duty in Paul
Street, Exeter, when they observed two very bright objects
flying parallel to each other and on an Easterly course over
the city.
/3
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(3)
On Thursday 1st April 1993, I received a call from
at the British UFO Research Associations Office, giving me the
name, address and telephone number of
from Pentregalar, Dyfed, who had also seen the two very bright
lights in flight across d.W.Wales at ·1.10am on Wednesday 31st
Harch 1993.
At this point, I now had some seven or eight reports, mostly
police officers, who had all observed two very bright white
li6hts or objects, travelling acros& the sky fcom
approximately N.W to S.E. in complete silence and trailing some
form of illuminated vapour trail behind them I it! What was
noticeable about these sightings, was that all the persons I
spoke too had 6reat difficulty in describing the 'trails' and
used the term vapour as a simply means of doing so. What was
also noted was the fact that whatever it was that was trailing
behind the objects, it was 'illumipated' or 'lit up' by some
means or other. One person them as 'like car head
light beams shining backwards, another thought they looked like
long thin fluorescent light
Because of the extraordinary similarity between the reports, it
was obvious to me that at approximately 1.10am on the morning
of the 31st March 1993, an object of enormous size had crossed
N.W.Wales, S.Wales, N.Devon, Cornwall and E. Devon. During its
flight it had descended from a gceat height over N.W.Wales to
about 2,000' above the Bristol Channel and hovered at the same
height north of Liskeard. from there it ascended to
approximately 10,000' over Plymouth and subsequently E. Devon.
From here I felt sure it must have travelled further east or
south easterly and decided therefore to try and obtain some
additional sightings by use of the local press. I contacted the
Taunton Gazette and Horiiton News, both weekly papers and gave
them some details of the events of Wednesday 31st.
/4
"<«.:, ... 7
'
!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(4)
I avoided giving the time of the sightings and a full
description of what had been seen.
These reports were published on Friday 2April 1993 and by
afternoon on that day my phone was ringing continuously. Ny
callers were mainly from the Taunton, Minehead area and
interestingly gave me a good picture of the objects journey
over Somerset and onto the Dorset border. Again most of the
reports were of two very bright white lights, flying parallel
to each other and at a constant speed. The rear light source
was again mentioned in all the reports and as bafore the
callers had difficultly in describing this. The length of the
trailing light varied from caller to caller and was anything
from 100
1
to 100yds depending on the callers angle of sighting.
Most of these sightings were timed between 1.10am and 1.17am,
which indicated a 1.10am to 1.1Sam sighting, some five minutes
later than the Welsh, Cornwall sightings.
In addition to the 1.10am - 1.1Sam ·sightings, I also received
two concerning a large object carrying two very bright
outward light sources. This object was seen at 2am over the
River Parrot, Nr Bridgewater, flying very low, about 800', by
some local fishermen known as 'Elvers'. Elvers being young
eels. Both reports concerned a number of fishermen, but were
initially made by two of them, Hr and of
Bridgewater, Somerset. One of the sightecs,
described the object as looking like a very large 'Catamaran'.
It had two long ski like sections underneath which appeared to
be joined by a centre structure about 400' to 500' apart! From
the rear they described a long beam like light source,
something like a cars headlights dimmed.
/5
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[REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT J
(5)
In all the reports received, there was no mention of any noise
being associated with the lights I object, in fact the reverse
appears to be the case, i.e. complete silence!
..
"":" .
Whilst collating all these reports, I also received some
reports concerning bright lights flying in formation aad
hovering over Bridgewater and Bishops Lydiard between 9pm and
lOpm on the evening of 30th March 1993. I also received one
report, again from a police officer, who was off duty and with
some Scouts UJ? on the Quantock Hills at about 9pm on the 30th.
He reports seeing a large object flying in from the north,
fairly low and said it resembled 'two concord aircraft fixed
together' and covered in a number of white bright lights.
Obviously this could not have been two 'Concords' but its not a
bad description in comparison with the 'Elvers' description at
2am i.e. a large 'Catamaran'.
Since these reports I have received three more, only these have
come from St Ives, Cornwall. again two very bright lights are
reported flying parallel to ea_ch other and very hi6h in the
sky. This is some twenty minutes later than the earlier
sightings on the 31st and indicates that the objects or objects
were seen over the West Country and Wales, on at least three
separate occasions i.e. 1.10am, 1.30am and 2am.
From the general description given, it would appear that the
object seen was about 500' in width, carrying two very bright
light sources at its outer edges with a number of smaller
lights surrounding its main body. It left a tail of light,
something like a vapour trail, only illuminated or lit up.
/6
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I .
(6)
At this point in the investigation, Sunday 11th April 1993, I
have now despatched 33 report forms to all the_'sighters' and
once returned will hopefully be able to plot at least the
1.10am flight path of the object and provide a better
description of.its form, structure and performance. I will also
have a better picture of the St Ives, Cornwall and 2am
Bridgewater, Somerset events.
As a matter of interest, two of my reports concerned the
presence of two 'Jet Fighters' flying in from the East. one
behind the other, and across Devon at 1.30am on the 31st. One
report came from a retired airline pilot living in East Devon
who gave the altitude of the jets as 20,000' and their speed as
1,500mph. He also said they were in a hurry and had their
'after burners' on! This report was later corroborated by a
second report from a gentlemen living in Wellington, Somerset.
My efforts to confirm the of these aircraft with SEC
(AS) 2A at the MOD (AIR) was not successful. From their records
£2 military aircraft were airborne at this time over Devon and
are therefore unknown to anybooy at this time!
I also received two reports of three military type helicopters
flying in a radius of Bridgewater between 1.30am and 2am on the
31st. Both reporters are adamant that the helicopters were
military - probably 'Sea Kings'? but again MOD (AIR) were
unable to confirm their presence in the area. Hy information is
that these Helicopters were on a search operation of some kind
or another and that at one stage 'red flares' were seen due
south of Bridgewater.
13th April 1993
REPORT OF AN UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT
·A. Date, Time and Duration of Sighting •. Mf\R '\3 .2,.\'50 SJV\tNS
B. Description of Object. OtJE.. Gc\...AS.S.. 't::o\C"otl'-.
·\""\S S.tbE:., \A.,.,:)A.e,\...CC -co 'b!Ae
0 L. \l:.t \-\\> . . .
C. Exact Position Observer. 41 A-tZ.E:A f9EOIA«T _
C..Lof'&S f.ti
·D.
How Observed.
E. Direction in which Object was first seen.
. F.· Angle of Sight.
G. Distance. , 1 ass. -to
() N oE:<Z. M l'\ .. A pp '2...o<:::>r-v- •
H. Movements. S:.-n\.....L-iJL.L -,-t-te:-N f1AcvcO -rot-Jk,e'L)S
L.-lC>ob AfZ..E::A. U 'l! L OtA . Or
I. Meteorological condistions during obser.vation.
F u .. c 'b '1-'I C...L.E::A(2.
J. 'Nearby Objects. :.
K. To whom reported. p c.
L. · · Name and Address of Informant.

M. Any background on the informant that may be volunteered.
N. Other Witnesses. p
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Is a reply requested. '-/ES
Signed
Name
Date Rank
Tel No __ _
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•.·. -.. : ·:·.: ···:·· .. ·
\REDACTION ON ORIGlNAL-DOCUMENT\ : ___
Witness Statement
Statement of
Ageifunder21 . o 21 (if over 21 insert 'over 21').
This statell].ent (consisting of · pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and
belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if 1 have wilfully
stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
Dated the 19 93
Signature
I n the Devon & Cornwall Constabulary stationed at
Liskeard in Ccrnwall.
At about 0110 hrs on the morning of Wednesday 31st March 1993 I was
on duty in uniform and driving a marked Police vehicle along the A38 at
Looe Mills near- Liskeard travelling in the direction of Dobwalls.
Thjs was naturally during the h6urs of darkness and the was
fine and dry, with some patchy cloud; the moen and a number of star3 being
visible. I w&s
As I began to negotiate a sweeping uphill left hand bend at the bottom
of Lantoom Hill, I became: aware of what appeared to be two
1
stars
1

above the horizon in the apprcximate position of "two o
1
clock". They wc·re
due North of me and motionless in the sky. My attention was drawn to
these "stars" because apart from being in a part of the sky where there
are usually no stars, they were of a darker hue bordering on yellow instead
of silvery-white. They were reasonably close together but as I could not
begin to estimate their distance from me, I likewise cannct estimate how
far they were from each other.
As I negotiated the bend I continued to observe there when I suddenly
saw them begin to. move what appeared to me vertically upwards. They main-
tained a_ parallel course and identical speed as they approached the
"one 0' clock" position they began to leave vapour trails. I brot<ght my
--car- to- h lt - j.. • - • • My location now was
················
Continuation
approximately 100 yards the Liskeard side of the lay by outside Lantoc-m
map ref 230 650.
My view of _these objects was very good; the sky being clear, and they
continued their ascent still at an identical speed to each other and still
but rather cuf"ving overhead and heading due South. As they gained in
on a parallel course. I realised that they were not ascer:ding vertically
height the trails became much more pronounced. I w&s still unable
to estimate their height because of their small size (ider.tical to a star
in the night sky) but I believe they were very high.
As they passed
directly overhead at "12 o'clock high", the heavens at this point were
objects apart from empty sky. They definitely twc separate
bright and moonlit ar:d I could see that there was nothing betw12en ·the
At abcut this time I became aware of what I believed tc bE, a third
object visible only by its vapour trail which was considerably less otvious
than the vapour trails of the other two objects. This third object seemed
to be travelling to the right hand side of the left hapd obejct (as I was
looking up), and slightly to the rear of it. It maintained the identical
speed and parallel course of the other objects.
As the objects ccr:tinued on a dead straight north south course, they ..
aircraft.
seemed to be travelling at a similar· speed tc· a high flying passenger jet
immediately or. my left.
I lost sight of them owing to the high ground of the quarry
· During the: total duration of this sighting, which was between lt5
uninterrupted.
seccr.ds ar:d 1 minute, my observation of these objects wa·s and
There was nCl sound wh.atever, the: night being very still
with no
A. Dattt, Time and Duration of Sighting
Local times to be quoted
B. Discription of Object
Number of objects,size,shape,colours,
brightness,sound,smell,etc.
C. Exact position of.observ•r
Geographical location,indoors our out,
stationery or moving. ·
D. How Observttd
Naked eye,binoculars,other optical
cr movie
E )irection in which Object was First Seen
A landmark more useful than badly e.n ....
bear-ing.
F. Angular Elevation of Object
Estimated heights are unreliable.
G. Distance of Objttct from Observer
Ref. to known landmark when possible.
H. Movements of Object
Changes E,F G more use than est.
course and speed.
J. M•t. Condition During
Moving clouds, haze, mist, etc.
K. Nearby Objects
tJ' a.llu:l


Telephone or high-voltage lines;-dam, lake
or reser-voir; swamp or marsh; river; high /.·
' building, tall chimney, steeples,spir-es or-
masts; air-fields, gener-ating
factories or li9hted sites, or lighting
L.. To Whom Reported ' No ..
Police, Military erg. the pr-ess,· etc.
M. Nam• and Addr•ss of Informant
----------.
N. Any Background Information on Informant
that may be Volunteered
0. Othttr Witness
Signature •••
···.-; .. ,
• • • • • • • • •
... c\
- ·-·. - --
•rPORT OF AN UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJEcr
I A. & Sighting I IM1 wf Kntk ,_ .. ' ...
l---:-------------1' . . . . - -I
I B. Description of Object 1 ,.,J.. f....,J. ,t)t.lt, 2oo "'drt I
I (No of objects, size, shape, I , 2 ('(.,_ ..41t kfk, I
1
1
colour, brightness) 1
1
v. £-Uk_ W .PI'J1.ifc 1
. .,
I C. Exact Position of Observer I f(Ltk fvrkvo. 1

f<'1d..i
1
I
I Location, indoor/outdoor, I _/. {•-- 1
I stationary/moving 1 {pt.wUL O'\£Sl. •
I I I
I I I
I D. How Observed (Naked eye, I l
I binoculars, other optical 1
1
}JJJ t.
1
( I
I device, still or movie) I I
I I l
I E. Direction in which Object I f."Jf bcc/:11 tdl'-'(_ • 1
I first seen (A landmark may be I I
I more useful than a badly I I
l estimated bearing) I I
I I I
I F. Angle of Sight (Estimated I AIMISJ- ,N(Atk.d.i · fful.,'1 I
I heights are unreliable) I lfak )/,.)t • 4-5' J M! f"'-J . I
I I I
I G Distance (By reference to a I m.iaf 'IIUJ JNV T tl-st I
l known landmark) I I
I I I
I H. Movements (Changes in E, F & G l ' fi.IA1 ILstevJJ.. in l
I may be of more use than I u,J,t ., ; lrt . 1
l estimates of course and speed) I sM-
1
r v wt rpc.J. f 1
I I I
I I. Met Conditions during Observations I ck I
I (Moving clouds, haze, mist etc) I I
I I I
I I I
I J · Nearby Objects (Telephone lines, I I
I high Voltage lines, reservoir, lake I I
I or dam, swamp or marsh, river, high I I
I buildings, tall chimneys, steeples, I Hllli5t) I
I spires, TV or radio masts, I I
I . airfields, generating plant, I l
I factories, pits or other sites with I I
I floodlights or night lighting) I I
I I I
.... v-:.,.
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1
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I PAF k f{.fi,{VtA /D . I
I i'\ll.Jd Cpl C#S{nlt- oU.Uf"" , 1
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cpl-+ .1:
P.Af . ;>
PilJ Off'l/
-RPORT OF AN UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT
··.' ... .-·.·.
I I
I A. Date, Time & I
I _ __,__Du_r_at_i_o_n_o_f_s_i-gh_t_in_g ______ l 11.-tl, C 1./0
I B. Description of Object ·\-0-..,-:-i-gv.-. -.1--.::. ,, -(1..,.-.-fLJ-.
1
1
{No of objects, size, shape, 1 2 eM £f-Ir/ ('-1 ,., .I
I colour, brightness) I f:k ': Lw hJ Jvt1c k-l.
I I
I C. Exact Position of Observer I
I Location, indoor/outdoor, I
I stationary/moving I
I I
_A.·.·,
. •.· ;;.
, .. ,
. .:; ······
·e..-, -----------.-1 __ ..
I K. (Police, I RAF l0$f,.-l -
l ______________ l . . . I
I I Mr &-Vcki I
I L. Name & Address of Informant I
0
;
1
· a .
1
I
I _____________________ l
I .I I
I M. Background of Informant that I JJ/k I
I may be volunteered I I
I I I
I I Mr- IM'f<-, )N\,

I
I N. Other Vi tnesses I J. ... I
I I ,, I
I I I
I 0. Date, Time of Receipt I Wcl , I· +5 a.¥-t I
I I I
I I I
I P. Any Unusual Meteorological I 1v I
I Conditions I '''ll. I
I I I
l 0. Remarks I f.1,- A.-bf hJ. (N'A(. l
I I , t;tJ h I
I l I"Mt)Ay! . pwJ . l ... n.J I
I I . I
I I I I
. --- __
..
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· .... '':

_.
I A. I .. Wd H
l ______________ . I ··· I
I B. Description of Object I '2 £ri{kl /fJ; i'l. I
I (No of objects, size, shape, 1
1
H. kW /k • /1
1
I
I colour, brightness) I
I I PI . p.JJ, /ru1, wt v 1,., . I
I c. Exact Position of Observer I f;r, l(h rAMAl .;. I
I Location, .indoor/outdoor, I I
I stationary/moving I . 1'1"--r., 1\,... 1
I I I
I I I
I D. How Observed (Naked eye, I I
I binoculars, other optical I /Vuf!d.. (.f(._ I
I device, still or movie) I I
I I I
I I I
I E. Direction in which Object I I
I first seen (A landmark may be I f.Jw 1:.. 5E .· {,_,.Jc I
I more useful than a badly I -- 1 r ' '
I estimated bearing) I 5 .I
I l __

_______ _
I F. Angle of Sight (Estimated I Ol3et! " }t,-r. · (1'4-ftJ.. Jv..,'ZAt ;-t.
I heights are unreliable) I 2 . l/J '1 ?
I l _____________
1 I /.
I G Distance (By reference to a I ve,t-1 + ,r
I known landmark) I IAt'l 9""'d .
I I ___________ __
I I
I H. Movements (Changes in E, F & G I
I may be of more use than I
I estimates of course and speed) I
I 1 _____________________ 1
I I I I 1Lt11Al J,..J I
I I. Met Conditions during Observations I 5A· ( q .. :tc ·T ' /!.. ' J I
I (Moving clouds, haze, mist etc) .I 1'1ht I
I I I
I I I
I J. Nearby Objects (Telephone lines, I I
I high Voltage lines, reservoir, lake I I
I or dam, swamp or marsh, river, high I I
I buildings, tall chimneys, steeples, I I
I spires, TV or radio masts, I I
I airfields, generating plant, I
1
1
I factories, pits or other sites with I
I floodlights or night lighting) 1· . .,;· I
I I ' I
(-· ..
e
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
K.
To whom reported (Police, military,
press etc)·
L.
Name & Address of Informant .
M.
Background of Informant that
may be volunteered
N. Other Yitnesses
o.
Date, Time of Receipt
P. Any Unusual Meteorological
Conditions
Q. Remarks
...
Fu'-lir . Ht.r ft•-ew.t. A(tL , ·iS " · tcrtl
1
tl (.v.i + ..... l
I
AIML I
------------------------1
I
WtJ_ M"'J... I I
______________________ I
I
Nml I
I
________________________ I
I
ApflMr). /; v -r I
I
L-v>'hlt55 I
I
I

_-_ .
.•

..• PORT . OF AN. UNIDENTIFIED FLYING oamcr
l A. Date, Time & I I-1AA.ct-t 1'/rt 1 :::>1/o UM ·I
I Duration of Sighting I n.-· ·· ·
1
_______________
1
...K'CS _
1
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I B. Description of Object 12...
I (No of objects, size, shape, I t P-4'f7IC17rt., -::6 1
I colour, brightness) I I
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I I h<:.'T? .YV A 3'! t#rP rt;:::f-
1 c. Exact Position of Observer I AYL- <-t JV.....aa-1"\0 • a
I Location, indoor/outdoor, IS"?,::)/].&p -r ;4ucJ:-tt?.EfJ r1Z1o
I stationary/moving I ,..,AP.f Nr I
I I tn:>;...., A I
I I I
I D. How Observed <(!aked ey;;> I I
I binoculars, other optical I I
I device, still or movie) I I
I I I
I I I
I E. Direction in which Object I N:;.VT.?H I
I first seen (A landmark may be I I
I more useful than a badly I I
I estimated bearing) I
I I
I z.. ::) ' I
I F. Angle of Sight (Estimated I
I heights are unreliable) I
I I
I I
I G Distance (By reference to a I
I known landmark) I
I I
I uG;-;,7.J H-?1/'u'O 71' -c,
II H. Movements (Changes in E, F & G UI)'14A11" A:JN IA-/V..}U......'-- CWV
may be of more use than -r- 1
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Met Conditions during Observations "'
I (Moving clouds, haze, mist etc) I I
I I I
I I I -
I J. Nearby Objects (Telephone lines, I I
I high Voltage lines, reservoir, lake I I
I or dam, swamp or marsh, river, high I I
I buildings, tall chimneys, steeples, I I
I spires, TV or radio masts, I I
I airfields, generating plant, I I
I factories, pits or other sites with I I
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
U N C L A S S I F I E D
CWD148 31/0959 090C1185
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 310720Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310110Z MAR 93. 30 SECONDS
B. TWO, POSSABLY THREE, STARSHAPED WITH VAPOUR TRAIL WHEN MOVING,
YELLOW/GOLD AND BRIGHT .
C. MOORSWATER, LISHEARD, CORNWALL, OUTDOORS, STATIONARY
D. NAI<EII EYE
E. NORTH
F. ABOVE
.
G. N/1<
H. STATIONARY THEN MOVING STEADILY
... J. CLEAR
L. POL
M. SGT LISKEARD, CORNWALL
N. POL s
PAGE 2 RBIIAIII 0003 UNCLAS
0. SEEN BY OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THROUGHOUT DEVON AND CORNWALL
P. 310130Z MAR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
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CAB 1 SEC<AS> ACTION < CXV
CYD 1 IID GE/AEW
CAP 1 DI 55
1 AFDO >
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7
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ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT]
REPORT OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT
A. Date, Time and of Sighting
Local times to be quoted
B. of ObJ•ct
Number of objects;size,shape,colours,
brightness,sound,smell,etc.
c. Exact position of obs•rv•r
Geographical location,indoors our out,
- stationery or moving.
D. How
eye,binoculars,other optical
device,still or movie camera.
E. Dir•ction in which Object was S••n
A landmark more useful than badly
bearing.
F. El•vation of Object
Estimated heights are unreliable.
G. Distance of Object from Observer
Ref. to known landmark when possible.
H. Mov•m•nts of Obj•ct
Changes in E,F G more use than est.
course and speed.
J. Met. Condition Observation
Moving clouds, haze, mist, etc.
K. Objects
Telephone or high-voltage lines; dam, lake
or reservoir; swamp or marsh; river; high
building, tall chimney, steeples,spires or
masts; airfields, generating
factories or lighted sites, or lighting
L. To Whom • .
Police, Military erg. the press, etc.
Name and Address of
Any Information on
that may b• Volunt••r•d
).
Date
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
CWD153 01/1325 091C1129
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 010850Z APR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
UN C L A S S I. F I E.D
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310115Z MAR 93 30 SECONDS
..... '.
B. TWO WHITE LIGHTS TRAVELLING AT HIGH SPEED, FORTY TO FIFTY FEET
APART
C. GREATLY OUTDOORS AND STATIONARY
D. NAKED EYE
E. NORTH TO SOUTH
F. 300 - 400FT AGL
G. OVERHEAD
H. HIGH SPEED
J. REASONABLY CLEAR, SLIGHT OVERCAST
K. LOCAL HILL <COSLEY HILL)
L. SATCO MIDDLE WALLOP
1"1. MR
GREATLY HAMPSHIRE
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0003 UNCLAS
N. AVIATOR WITH ARMY FLYING ASSOCIATION, ENGINEER AND BOOKING

0. MISS-
P. 010845Z APR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
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CYD 1 DD GE/AEW
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
U N C L A S S I F I E D
CAB123 31/1257 090C2197
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 311220Z MAR 93
FROM RAF CHIVENOR
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
SUBJECT AERIAL PHENOMENAL
A. 310120L MAR 93
B. VERY BRIGHT LIGHf
C. BRAUNTON BURROWS/OUTDOORS/WALKING
D. I--lAKED EYE
E. OBJECT FLEW OVER BURROWS FROM SOUTH AND SEEMED fO LAND SAND
DUNES
F. NIL
G. 1•-1/K
H. STEADY
J. CLEAF: SKY
K.
L. REPORTED 1·0 RAF CHIVENOR OPERATIONS ALSO SEEN Bi POLICE PAfROL
PASSING BURROWS IN CAR
PAGE
M. MR DEVON
H. 1·-IIL
0. POLICE OFFICERS PLUS FRIENDS
P. 311230L MAR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
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CAB
CYD
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
U N C L A S S I F I E D
CWD203 31/1158 090C1975
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 311050Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310010Z MAR 93
B. TWO, VERY BRIGHT, STAR LIKE OBJECTS IN A ECHELON MILITARY
FORMATION LEAD OBJECT HAD POINTED TAIL OTHER HAD GOLD TAIL
C. OUTDOORS, STATIONARY
D. NAKE[I EYE
E. EAST TO WEST, SOUTH OF H O U S ~ - .
F. LOW .
G. AF'F'ROX 20 KM
H. STEADY
,J. VERY
M. MISS EAST HARPTREE,
'BRISTOL
N. BA HISTORY GRADUATE
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0006 UNCLAS
0. THREE OTHERS AGED 20-24
P. 311015Z
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
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1 SEC<AS> ACTION < CXV
1 [1[1 GE/ AEW
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
CWD151 090C1243
FOR CAB
ROUTINE 310730Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
U N C L A S $ I F I E D
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310110A MAR 93. 2 TO 3 MINUTES

D. NAKED EYE
E. OVERHEAD MOVING NORTH
F. LOW, APPROX 100-200 METRES
G. OVERHEAD
H. VERY SLOW
J. CLEAR
POL!
IN COLOUR
R CENTRAL POLICE STATION, SWAN STREET,
N. NONE
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0005 UNCLAS
0. OTHER POLICE OFFICERS
P. 310154A MAR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
tAB 1
CYD 1 DD GE/AEW
CAP 1 tti 55
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!REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
UN C IF IE D
CAB092 31/1001 090C1238
FOf< CAB
ROUTINE 310725Z MAR 93
FROM RAF WEST DRAYTON
TO MODUK AIR
U N C L A S S I F I E D
SIC Z6F
SUBJECT: AERIAL PHENOMENA
A. 310055A MAR 93
B. TWO METEORITE TYPE ORANGE AND WHITE WITH TRAIL AND BRIGHT
C. MOVING
D. BHWCULAf(S
E. RIGHT TO LEFT
F. LOr..J
G. UNKNOWN
H. STEADY
J. CLEPtR

M. AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL LULSGATE BRISTOL B519
3DY
N. WITNESSED BY AIRCREW AND OTHER AIRPORT STAFF
PAGE 2 RBDAID 0004 UNCLAS
P. 310334A MAR 93
BT
DISTRIBUTION Z6F
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binoculars, other optical
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Nearby Objects (Telephone lines,
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factories, pits or other sites with
I
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floodlights or night lighting)
I
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I I
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. · - ...
. DOCUMENT l
5tc (Af) ll( .
I K. To whom reported (Police, military, I
I press etc) I
l ______________________________ l
I I
I L. Name & Address ·of Informant I <l ·
I
1
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OurRe1. CAN/JC/SAT
Your Ref.
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.
PQ!Ice. &aUon, .
. Wolv8fha' ,. . ....
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. . . .. mpton Road,
annock,
Staffs.
WS111AW
ON OR.IGINAL DOCUMENT]
Department of Trade and Industry,
National Air Traffic Control Services,
1 Victoria Street,
London SWlH OET
Dear Sirs,
7th May, 1993
I attach hereto copy reports received from my officers in connection
with alleged sightings of unidentified flying objects.
Yours faithfully,
"-
The ·person deellng dl this ··corre.i)ondence 18:
. . .. ·.· .. - . " ..
.. ··
""' ..... -·
. (.
FROM:
TO:
SUBJECT:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

">-. ""
Staffordshire Police
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT]
P.C.
SUPT.
U.F.O. REPORT
Your
Our Reference:
STATION: RUGELEY.
DATE: 31.3.93
With reference to the attached report by P.C.
concerning a U.F.O. being sighted in the Brereton Area of
information has been received by myself from
a Cpllllllff the Military Police at R.A.F. Cosford.
Cpllllllhas informed me that from enquiries he has made
he has further s of the U.F.O. in Bristol at
0100 hours by an at'Bristol Airport, at
Ternhill Barracks at ours by two guards on duty
there and at R.A.F. ·stafford where two guards also saw
it travelling at a speed of approximately '400 knots'
on a very low flight path.
Cpllllllfalso informed me that he has liaised with R.A.F.
Shrewsbury, at Mrllllllll, who informed him that he had seen
a U.F.O. in the sKy travelling at high speed but riding
erratically at different-attitudes. He observed it for
approx. 15 minutes until it went off at speed (400 knots)
in a southern direction.
Enquiries have been made with all aviation centres and
there was no activity in the area at all by any military
or civil aeroplanes.
All the above information has been recorded at R.A.F. Cosford
and a separate report has been compiled by Cpllllllll'
If any more information is required it
at R.A.F. Cosford Tel ................
, e
Staffordshire Police - ----- ---------- ------------

REDAC
TION ON ORIGINAL - , - .
Your Reference:
-..•..
Our Reference:
FROM: P .C. RUGELEY
TO: SUPERINTENDENT
DATE: 31st March, 1993
SUBJECT:
1.
REPORT OF UNIDENTIFIED-FLYING OBJECT
At 0149 31st March, 1993 a Mr.--
Brereton, Rugeley, reported
Police Station that he had sighted a U.F.O.
in the Brereton area. The informant was visited-and
the following details were obtained:
A TIME - 0109 hrs
DATE - 31.3.93
DURATION OF SIGHTING - Approx. 1 minute
B DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT
Shape - Oval
Size - Approximately 150 metres in length
Colour Unable to state colour.
Brightness - The object-had lights at each end which
were cream and very br-ight
Sound - Loud humming noise.
C EXACT POSITION OBSERVED
The informant sighted the object whilst stood in the
garden of his home address.
D HOW OBSERVED
Naked eye
E DIRECTION IN WHICH OBJECT WAS FIRST SEEN
F
G
H
J
The informant saw the object over ·the Stile Cop area
of Cannock Chase.
ANGLE OF SIGHT
Approximately 45 degrees
DISTANCE
Approximately i of a mile
MOVEMENTS
Moved away into the distance
METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS
··Dry and Clear-
;·.
,._ · .... \ · ..
"-.
. .. ·---' ., :.
slowly
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Sheet No. ....•................ . _ ..
. _ . . REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DO ..... -· : ··
Form No. 65A
-3-
Chief Superintendent
1. I would ask that a copy of this report be forwarded as outlined
in Minute 1 (2) above.
26 April 1993 Ch
PAB. 4
1. This type of report need not be referred to
Headquarters and may be forwarded direct to the
of Trade Industry.
Sth May, 1993.
, _,(.
Ref: Case No 933
Staff) 2a Room 8245
Ministry Of Defence
Main Building
Whitehall
London SWlA 2HB
Dear-
26th May 1993
Firstly, many thanks for your help over the last few weeks, it
really has been appreciated.
Just a quick update on the events of 30th/31st March 1993 re:
the sightings here in the Westcountry.
It is almost certain that the majority of the l.lOam sightings
were in fact the re-entry of a Russian second stage rocket that
had put a Cosmos Radio Satellite (2238) into orbit sometime
before midnight.
What we don't know is what the object or objects seen at 1.30am
over St Ives, Cornwall and 2.00am over Bridgewater, Somerset
and indeed the hovering object(s) seen over Nth Devon between
8.00pm and ll.OOpm on the 30th!
From the evidence to d a ~ e , something was most definitely
haunting the sky over Nth Devon on the evening of the 30th and
I have substantiated reports confirming this.
The 2.00am Bridgewater sighting also appears to be genuine and
I can see no reason to doubt it.
/2
'· ., j::e»_,-.
..
[REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(2)
Then there is the collection of sightings you k i ~ d l y gave me
covering Avon, Shropshire and South Yorkshire up to 2•40am on
the 31st - it certainly was a busy night·for something.
At the moment I am busy putting together a 16 page report on
these events and once completed will despatch it to the
appropriate authorities - you will of course receive a copy.
However, before finalising this report, I wondered if you had
been able to obtain any information re: the two fighter
aircraft seen over Devon at 1.30am on the 31st or the 3
helicopters seen over and around Bridgewater at 1.30am also on
the 31st.
Could I please ask if you could once again check your records
and ascertain, if possible, what they were doing! I realise
this may be difficult, but I do honestly believe that they have
. a bearing on this case.
Once again, many thanks for your help to date and do hope I,m .
not causing you any undue trouble or inconvenience.
Kind regards
Yours sincerely

fEDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
Ref: Case No 933
t (Air Staff) 2a Room 8245
Ministry Of Defence
Main Building
Whitehall
London SW1A 2HB
Dear-
26th May 1993
Thankyou for your letter received today in reply to mine of the
26th May last.
As promised please find enclosed a copy of my report re: the
events of the night 30th/31st March 1993. As is usual with
these types of cases once the event has passed there is not
much more we can do with it. Our only hope is that something
else might pop out of the w o o d ~ o r k at a later date to throw
some light on it. ·
There appears to have been a lot of ufo activity over the last
few months particularly in the Gwent area of South Wales. Some
of the sightings are very similar to the events in that area in
1980 and 1982 which were in themselves quite extraordinary -
but again once reported upon what else can we do. One day
perhaps we shall have a landing or some tangible evidence of
what these 'things' are and more importantly - what their
doing!
I hope you find the report of some interest and if you have any
ideas or theories on this event please let me know.
Once again many thanks for your help and look forward to
speaking to you again.
Kind regards
l
''

\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT \
20th May
INVESTIGATION REPORT
.
CASE NO 933 'The Wales and Westcountry Sightings'
30th I 31st March 1993
This report has been c
and with the m
Chairman of the
It also includes
with informatio
co-operation o
Research Group
Ministry of Defence (Sec Air)2a, Mr
Astronomical Association (BAA), Mr
correspondent for BBC·Radio 4, base n
from,
members of the Devon & Cornwall Police Force and numerous
members of the British public living in Wales, Cornwall, Devon
and Somerset.
Introduction
On Wednesday 31st March at approx 2.20am, I received
a telephone call from Sgt of the Devon & Cornwall
Police Force. He is stationed at Bodmin, Cornwall and was
reporting an incident that had at !.lOam that morning
whilst on duty near Liskeard. Briefly he reported that at
1.10am, whilst driving towards Dobwalls on the A38, he noticed
2 very bright lights of objects hovering at about 2,000' above
the N.W. Horizon. Knowing the night sky fairly well he
immediately realised that 'they' were not stars and did not
conform to any known aircraft or their navigation lights.
At this point he stopped his patrol car and got out. he watched
the objects for a few seconds and was amazed to see them
suddenly start to ascend at a fairly fast rate of knots.
/2
[REDACTION ON ORIGINAL I.
(2)
They seemed to move in an arc over his position and disappeared
to the south. At their highest point, about *10,000' 2 vapour
like trails appeared behind each object and they appeared to
be self luminous. * This height is based on information
obtained from the control tower at Exeter Airport later that
day.
At the end of his report·, Sgt informed me that several
other police officers had made similar reports to their
operations room at Exeter.
Shortly after this call, I contacted the Ops. Room at Exeter
and was told that they had received a number of reports, all
from police officers on duty within the counties of Cornwall
and Devon. They also said that 2 other officers of the Gwent
Police Force, had also logged a similar report.
In total I was given the names and contact addresses of 11
officers. In addition I was informed that 2 other officers who
were on a special surveillance operation somewhere in East
Devon,had also reported something very similar. unfortunately,
I was unable to obtain these olficers names and can do no more
than note their sightings.
During that day, I managed to contact (by phone) all the
officers concerned and after taking details of their sightings
and with their permission despatched each a copy of our UFO
report forms for completion and return.
* Strangely, to date I have only received back 3 completed sets
of forms and what is even more puzzling, is the fact that all
of these have been from police sergeants - from police
constables! Whether there is a particular reason for this
remains to be seen, but· it does seem a bit odd to say the
least.
/3

' . -
'!':: \REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT]
(3)
From the original phone reports and the returned report forms a
fairly comprehensive picture of the nights events soon became
apparent.
*At appendix 'A' to this report is a summary of these reports,
coupled with others received from members of the public during
the course of the investigation.
l
.
What emerged from these reports,( with the exception of Sgt
Liskeard) and Sgt (Lynton) was that they all
virtually told the same story - this is as follows:
The time is 1.10am on the 31st March 1993, and a number of
police officers on duty within Devon & Cornwall, observed 2
very bright white lights or objects, traversing the sky from
the N.W. to the S.E., and at a high altitude. All report seeing
some sort of vapour trails behind and staying with the objects.
Most had problems in describing these 'trails' but most thought
they were self luminous or lit by some light source from the
objects. What is certain is that they were not the usual vapour
trails associated with high flying conventional aircraft; Most
reported the objects as fairly fast - somewhat faster than a
Jet aircraft. In addition all reported that the objects were
completely silent.
As stated earlier all the reports are very similar, given due
regard to these officers knowledge or otherwise of the night
sky and their abilities to judge the height or speed of objects
traversing it. This is not doubting these officers truthfulness
or their observation powers, but I do think it's a case of
'horses for courses'. Objects in the night sky, as we all know,
can be very deceptive and this is particular so when uncommon
phenomenon such as decaying space hardware is concerned.
/4
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(4)
Most of these reports (if not all!) were, I have reason to
believe, their observations of a Russian 2nd stage launch
vehicle of the Tsyklon class, which had previously (about
midnight) put.into orbit a Cosmos 2238 Satellite. Its return to
earth had occurred at approx 1.05am and was first seen over
Innis, Ireland at that time. From its orbital of 65
degrees it would have traversed the sky at a height of between
80kms and lOOkms in a S.E. direction. If it did cross Innis at
1.05am and I have reliable evidence to support this, then it
would have crossed Lands End shortly after - approx l.lOam.
Given the officers locations in Cornwall & Devon, it .is I
believe reasonable to assume that what they saw was the re-
entry of this space vehicle. However, at this time a final
conclusion cannot be given, until receipt of a report from a
lllllltinvestigation team in Ireland, which will hopefully
confirm the spent rockets course over Innis.
This leaves me with the proble.m· of the reports from Sgt
and Sgt they tell a different story!
, in company with P.C. lllllf, were approaching the
the coast town of Lynton, Nth Devon, at l.lOam. Their direction
of travel was due north and as they neared the town they
noticed 2 very bright lights approaching from the north across
the Bristol Channel. Stopping their patrol car they watched as
the lights drew nearer to them. The lights or object(s) passed
to the west going in a S.Easterly direction. As it I they
passed over, they noticed a third light, much smaller than the
other two and positioned somewhere between them. Sgt
states - that as it silently by, he got the impression
that the lights were attache? to a very large object, but could
not make out any shape of other details. As it went away from
from them, both officers saw two white vapour like trails
/5
.\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I"
(5)
behind each light. They described these trails as 'self
luminous' but not the same as normal aircraft vapour - more
like beams of light! They estimated the elevation of the
objects to be 40 degrees to the horizon at a distance of
between 1,000' and 2,000'.
t
This is obviously at variance to the other reports, but would
seem to substantiate Sgt report who was at the same
time S.W. of their position and saw the objects in a stationary
mode N.W. of hid position. this suggests that both the Sgts
sighting are in many respects different to the others and
indicate that their objects were extremely low and appeared to
have the ability to stop and hover!
I personally have no doubts about their because, as
whereas some people may have difficulty in judging objects at
great height, I hardly think these officers could be mistaken
in their judgements - 2,000' is one thing, but anywhere between
10,000
1
and 80kms is another. It is therefore my considered
opinion that these two sightings sightings are of different to
that of the re-entry rocket and may be associated with certain
\
other events that took place later in the morning, at 2.00am
and indeed the previous evening between 8.00pm and 11.00pm over
Nth devon.
Most of these reports were received following the publication
of some news articles in two local papers. (Honiton News &
Somerset Gazette) The articles did not specify the type of
objects seen or the time. As a result I received a large number
of phone calls from members of the public and another police
officer, this time from Somerset. After evaluating these
reports and filing away those which I considered were not
. . .
relevant to this case, it became apparent that in addition to
the initial police reports, there were a number which
were very similar and did therefore have some association.
/6


.: ,,· : ·: _,:_:_ ;·. :
• (6)
In an effort to give these events some clarity - they have been
separated into groups with each group being given its own
heading, they as follows:-
Event
'A'
'B'
'c'
'D'
'E'
'F'
Place Date
Innis, Ireland 31/3/93
*Wales, Cornwall, Devon 31/3/93
and Somerset.
Bridgewater, Somerset 31/3/93
North Devon 30/3/93
St Ives & Penzance, 31/3/93
Cornwall
**Wales, Westcountry;'Avon, 30-31/3/93
Shropshire, Sth Yorkshire
t
.
Time
-
l.OSam
1.10am to
1.17am
2.00am
7.00pm to
ll.OOpm
1.30am
Various
* The reports associated with this event include those received
from the police officers who initially saw the objects at
01.10am on 31/3/93.
** These reports are the subject of a letter received from the
MoD (Sec Air)2a giving some details of reports received by
them. They are thought to be associated with the events of
30-31/3/93 because of the similarities between them and those
already known to me.
/7

. DOCUMENT I
. . .
. . . . . ;; . ·. . .
(7)
Investigation
Event 'A' Innis, Ireland.
- : .
This event occurred at l.OSam on Wednesday 31st March 1993 over
Innis, Ireland, when 2 bright lights were observed traversing
. I
the sky. It is believed that they were seen at high altitude,
displaying white vapour trails. they appeared to be flying
parallel to each other, on a N.W. to S.E. course. Evidently
this sighting caused some concern to the Irish Government and
as a consequence a fighter aircraft was despatched to monitor
the objects. It seems the operation was not successful as the
objects were thought to have been travelling at about 3,000mph
- obviously to fast for the jets. The full details of this
sighting are not yet to hand, but it is thought to be basically
correct.
As with the 1.10am police reports and some of the other l.lOam
reports, this sighting is also believed to be result of the
previously mention rocket re-entry, but more of that later!
* Information supplied by Mr
based in Dublin.
a BBC Correspondent
Event 'B' - Wales, Cornwall, Devon and Somerset.
At various time between l.lOam and 1.17am on Wednesday 31st
March 1993, 12 people (excluding the original 11 police
officers) reported the sighting of two very bright objects
flying across the night sky in a south easterly direction. With
the exception of one, they all report seeing some sort of
vapour trails, but describe slightly differently! In the
main they were white, and trailed back from the objects and
appeared to be luminous.
/8
, --
) ... ·:
it ct/

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.. • .· .. :·'
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(8)
This indicates that they were not normal jet aircraft trails,
but do seem synonymous with something like the trail of a
'shooting star'-.-
After evaluating these reports and giving due regards to
peoples different perspectives of the objects, it is reasonable
. - t
to assume that they, like the police officers, had also
observed the spent rocket on its south easterly travels.
As a footnote, I have also received a report from Mr
......,of the British Astronomical Association, that two people,
one in Belgium and one from the south of France, also observed
some bright objects flying in a south easterly direction. The
French report indicates a number of objects (6 or 7) and this
I believe is the breakup of the original two seen earlier over
Ireland and the south west coast of England. The Belgium report
is not very comprehensive, but the 'sighter' is believed to
have seen them from his location, most probablj over France,
but not over Belgium.
What is evident here, is that I cannot be absolutely
certain that the two objects seen was the re-entry of the
Russian Space Rockets, their presence at this time and their
reported locations, must be a strong consideration. Given the
known height of these objects - between 80kms and lOOkms, and
the time they would have taken to traverse from horizon to
horizon, some 2 to 3 minutes and certainly not less than one
minute, then it can be reasonable assumed that from their known
flight path i.e. from Ireland over Lands End and on over
France, they would easily have been seen from as far away as
Somerset and most probably even further! On the night in
question there was very little cloud cover, which would have
afforded all of the a clear view for many miles.
(9)
• (9)
At this point, given all the known facts, what we are dealing
with is the following scenario:-
At sometime between l.lOam and 1.17am two very bright white
objects with some sort of vapour trails, were observed flying
N.W. to S.E. at high altitude and parallel to each other and
I
appear to have been on a pre-determined course. There were I
believe the remnants of a Russian Space Rocket that had earlier
deposited a Cosmos Radio Satellite into orbit.
But, at the same time i.e. l.lOam, two brightly lit objects or
a very large one with two lights attached, crossed the Bristol
Channel, flew low over Lynton and somewhere between there and
Liskeard came to a halt and hovered for a few seconds. They /it
then ascended at great speed to about 10,000' and then altered
course taking a southerly course over the English Channel.
If the information contained in the letter from the MoD is
correct, then the object or objects were later seen over or
near Bristol, Avon, at approx l.lSam heading south easterly!
Also, if the MoD information ii'correct, similar objects were
seen between 9.10pm on the 30th March 1993 and 2.40am on the
31st covering area from Cornwall to South Yorkshire! The
implication of this being that some 4 hours before the re-entry
an 'unknown' object or objects were flying across the
Westcountry up into Avon and on to South Yorkshire with the
last known sighting over Shropshire at 2.40am. It also
indicates that the objects appeared to be crisscrossing these
areas during this period.
(10)

\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(10)
Event 'C' - Bridgewater, Somerset.
On Wednesday 31st March 1993, a group of fishermen (known as
Elvers) were the river Parrot, Nr Bridgewater,
Somerset. At approx 1.30am they noticed 3 military type
helicopters flying in radius from Bridgewater to Hinkley
. I
Point. This activity was observed for some 30 minutes or so. At
a little before 2.00am the 'elvers' saw two bright orange
coloured lights approaching from the north. As they drew
closer, the 'elvers', who had previously thought they were the
returning helicopters, realised they were not. Firstly there
was the absence of any engine or rotor blade noise and
navigation lights. The objects approached their position at a
steady pace, not over fast, and appeared to be at a height of
about 800'. On their final approach, in addition to the orange
lights seen, two very bright white lights seem to be glowing
from the rear of the objects. As they passed overhead, one of
the elvers ( thought the objects were joined by
some sort of structure and likened this to a 'Large Catamaran'
As the object(s) cleared their position, two very bright light
sources were seen at the rear of the 'craft' throwing light
beams backwards. These were described as like car headlights.
What amazed the sighters most ( and
was the complete absence of any noise, in fact quite the
opposite - deathly silence! the objects proceeded on a south
easterly course towards Dorset and were in view for 2 to 3
minutes before disappearing.
I have personally spoken to both of these gentlemen and
received a written report from one • llllllllhas
not returned his report form and this I believe is because he
has difficulty in writing - we all!). and therefore feel ·
it best not to persue the matter any further.
(11)
I
.1 'tV .. ::t

(11)
One other interesting point that I noted during conversation
with was this. During the early hours,
somewhere between midnight and l.OOam, the cows occupying an
adjacent field appeared to be very restless, which I am told
was very unusual. Just after their sighting,-' -and
. I
their wives, were astonished to see all the cows had
congregated in the middle of the field. They were all facing
each other in a circular formation and had gone very quiet!
This is also I'm told very unusual.
Event •n• - Nth Devon and Somerset.
During the evening of Tuesday 30th March 1993, 6 independent
witnesses reported an object or o?jects flying over and or
hovering over Somerset and Nth Devon.
The first sighting occurred at 9.00pm, when
observed two glowing white/orange objects hovering north west
of her position. At the time s ~ e was travelling from her home
at Kington-St-Mary, Somerset, towards Bishops Lydeard and
thought they were somewhere above or just beyond the town. They
remained stationary for some 2 or 3 minutes, were very silent
and Mrslllllfgot the feeling that 'something was going to
happen' as everything seemed to have gone very quiet.! She
eventually lost sight of the objects behind some clouds.
Meanwhile, local business man, who lives at
Crowcombe Heathfield, Nr Lydeard-St-Lawrence, Somerset, - just
north of Bishops Lydeard, had gone out into his garden to feed
his fish. It was about 8.00pm and on looking up observed a
triangular formation of 3 objects approx 5 miles north west of
his home. They were brightly lit (self luminous) and each
object was larger. than a star.
(12)
.. -.... ·.·
.·-.:
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,J

\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENf\ .
(12)
He likened them to golf balls, two at the top with the other
oo
immediately below ( o ). From the lowest object a light beam
seemed to be down at an angle of about 45 degrees. Mr
the objects in view for a little over 3 hours.
During this time his also been out to see
·. t
the objects and has confirmed the sighting. ·
At this point I think it is worth pointing out that from the
evidence the object ( s) seen by Mrs - and that by Mr-
are probably one and the same. The direction is right i.e.N.W.
although Mrs- feels the object(s) were over Bishops
Lydeard I think in this she could be mistaken and that they
were a bit further away towards the N.W.
The third report came from P.C. is stationed at
Bishops Lydeard. His report (by phone) was as follows: At
approx 9.00pm he was up on the Quantock Hills, Nth Somerset,
with a of Scouts carrying out some field exercises, when
his attention was drawn to a series of bright lights
approaching from the north west. They appeared to be at a
height of about 3,000' and travelling at a constant speed, but
not over fast! As the lights got closer he made out the outline
of a large craft, which he said "looked like two Concords
flying side by side and joined together". the lights he had
seen appeared to be around the object(s) and were similar to
cabin lights on an aircraft, only much brighter. the object
passed to his left and after 2 or 3 minutes was lost to sight
as it proceeded on a south easterly course.
Strangely, as with the other P.Cs, despite agreeing to complete
a report form, this has never been returned - I wonder why?
(13)
'-
•'r· ~ ,,
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I

(13)
At approx 10.30pm, Mr
standing outside his.home at
Bishops Lydeard ~ h e n he noticed a brightly lit object
approaching from the south.
object as ab?ut the size of
lights numbering 30 in all.
At arms length he describes the
a Zippo Lighter and had 6 rows of
I
They were in two sections of 15
5 lights in each.
The objects speed was similar to a jet aircraft and appeared to
be at a high altitude. Because of this Mr- had the
object in sight for nearly 15 minutes before it disappeared to
the north. Some 5 minutes after the event Mrllllllllobserved a
civil airliner on the same course_at approx the same altitude
and he was able to identify this without any problem.
The 5th report came from Mr who lives in Taunton,
Somerset. At approx 10.20pm ( maybe a bit later) he observed 2
white lights, apparently connected, flying parallel to each
other in an easterly direction. Again there was no noise from
the objects and they appeared to be moving very fast. He gave
the length of his sighting as 2 minutes and is convinced it
/they was not an aircraft.
The 6th and last report for this evening, came from Mr
tlllla who lives at Milverton, Devon. At sometime before
midnight - about 11.30pm, he saw 2 groups of lights flying
along side each other. He describes them as 2 objects with 3
lights in a triangular formation. He says that they were moving
very fast and watched them for 2 minutes before they
disappeared in a south westerly direction.
/14
, ···-··. f.
~ ~ J . ~ ~ . ·

(14)
Notes
From these reports it is obvious that during the evening
(8.00pm to 11.00pm) an object or objects were clearly visable
and seen hovering over Nth Devon. This is substantiated by Mrs
-and Mr-in their reports. In addition other objects
. t
of a similar type, were seen traversing the sky f r o ~ north to
south and south to north. Although the reports are not
identical, i.e. they are different in their descriptions, they
do indicate that a fairly large twin hulled craft was airborne
that evening and flying low over some areas. What this object
was, is of course unknown and must therefore, temporally at
least, be classed as an Unidentified Flying Object!
Event 'E' - St Ives & Penzance, Cornwall
At just before 1.30am on Wednesday 31st March 1993, two men
,
living in St Ives, Cornwall, observed two very bright objects
flying on a N.N.W. to S.S.E. course over the town. Their height
was estimated to be about 2,000' and were described as rockets
with light trails. they were moving very fast and were only in
sight for 5 to 10 seconds. At one stage one of the sighters
thought that the two lights seemed to dim and
come on brightly again. The other observer did
not see this particular effect. He, however, only had the
objects in sight for a couple of seconds.
Meanwhile, who lives at Crowles, Nr Penzance, was
himself watching two very bright objects, with trails, heading
S.E. at a very low altitude 2,000' to 3,000'. He also observed
a third object behind the other two, but was less bright. none
of the objects made any noise and the light trails "were" he
said "thin and straight like a light tube". At the rear of the
/15

. .
.. "\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENTl-
(15)
2 large objects he also noticed a pink and blue light source
but was unable to say if they were attached to the objects or
the smaller one.flying close by. From his southerly position
the objects were to the north and not moving very fast. In fact
he had them in sight for at least 2 minutes. this of course is
. I
at variance with the other two sighters at St Ives, said
their objects were very fast!, but this maybe because they saw
the objects overhead whilst Mr llllllllwas looking at them from
a distance. It's my belief that this sighting was of the same 2
objects seen over St Ives only from a different location and
therefore different line of sight.
Event 'F' - Ministry of Defence reports 30th/31st March 1993
During the course of this investigation, I received a non Ufo
report from a gentleman (name on file) who is a recently
retired airline pilot. he had phoned me in response to one of
the local newspaper articles and thought he had the answer to
this case? He told me that at··t.30am on Wednesday 31st March
1993, he had observed two Jet Fighter Aircraft travelling at
30,000' in a westerly direction and at a very fast speed -
about 1,500mph. They had their 'after burners' on which
indicated they may still have been climbing! As an airline
pilot he was well qualified to identify these 'jets' and was
also certain that they were of a single engine type. Once I
our sightings, ( at this time I only had a number of
1.10am sightings) it was fairly obvious that his sighting was
not connected to my reports - or was it?
Thanking him for this information, I resolved to contact the
MoD to try and ascertain if they had any knowledge of these
aircraft. The next day .I at the MoD (Sec Air)
2a office and relayed my information to him. He was most
helpful and to look into it for me - and would ring
/16

. ..
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
(16)
back. About an hour later he did, but what he had to tell me
was nothing short of amazing. He had been unable to discover
any details regarding these aircraft and was at a loss to
explain their presence over East Devon at the time. To his
knowledge there had not been any flyovers by RAF, NATO or other
·. t
aircraft and stated that all known flights would most certainly
have been logged and they was no way that aircraft of this type
could fly over Britain without the MoD's knowledge.
However, having explained to him why I was making this enquiry
he did tell me that 'they' also had received a number of calls
and letters reporting the same kind of 'objects' i.e. two very
bright lights traversing the sky during the evening of the 30th
and early morning of the 31st March 1993. Upon request, he
later sent me a list these giving locations,
times and directions of travel. A study of these locations and
times was most informative and I have to say, also somewhat
guzzling. Because I had sentlllllla summary of my reports, some
.
of these were mine and were in accordance with them. There
were, however, a number which were not. Briefly his reports
covered the period 10.10pm on the 30th to 02.40am on the 31st,
and indicated that these objects had been seen as far north as
South Yorkshire, Shropshire and the counties of Cornwall, Devon
and Hampshire - all at different times and in many cases flying
in different directions!
This as you can imagine was very confusing. For example, there
were 3 sightings from South Yorkshire, all at different times
i.e. 9.10pm, 11.40pm & 1.17am. the 9.10pm sighting had the
objects travelling S.E., the 11.40pm ones travelling north
whilst the 9.10pm ones were unknown. In addition there was a
sighting from Bristol at 1.10am but these were
travelling westwards - and so it went on. * A copy of the MoD
report with map attached to this report.
/17
• ...... '
. ·- • . ... ·i..:.;-
·=··-""'-""""'7'-
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(17)
What all this means is anybody's guess. Was the information
correct and I see no reason why it be, or was it
incorrect and i·deliberate ·ploy to confuse the issue and try to
put me off the scent? - I really don't know.
If correct, and lets suppose it is, then this surely means that
not only were there 'unknown' objects flying and hovering over
the westcountry between 8.00pm and 2.00am on the night, but
were also tracking across the Midlands, South Yorkshire and
Hampshire - what were they doing?
Conclusions
As a Ufo researcher, it's my job to try and evaluate all
reports and information received an objective and hopefully
methodical way. This case has, to date, shown all the hallmarks
of a typical ufo event with evidence swaying the urgently
sought answers one way and then the other. Were the events on
this night nothing more or less· than the re-entry of a man made
space vehicle, or was it a ufo phenomenon related to that
event? I think it may well be the latter. My reasons for
thinking this are twofold.
Firstly, there is no doubt that the re-entry took place and
that this occurred at approximately 01.0Sam on the 31st. From
the evidence collected and collated it is almost certainly a
fact that the reports describing the events at l.lOam indicate
that what these people witnessed was the re-entry of this
missile. The heights given are synonymous with a re-entry of
this kind and the length of 'sighting time' likewise. All the
'sighters' give the objects direction of flight as N.W. to S.E.
or N. to S. giving some_ of error and this would
certainly been the spent rockets course.
/18
(18)
This I believe, is evidence enough to suggest that this is
exactly what these people saw - a rocket re-entry.
What is also evident is that on the evening before, between
8.00pm and 11.00pm, objects were seen traversing the North
Devon sky and indeed N.W. of the same In
addition it is fairly certain that at 2.00am on the 31st, an
object of some considerable size, flew over the River Parrot at
Bridgewater, disturbing not only the local fishermen, but also
the cattle in the adjacent fields. Also at this time we have
the mystery of the 3 helicopters seen. They were almost
certainly of a military type, but as with the 2 fighter
aircraft over East Devon earlier, their presence has been
denied by the MoD - Why?
In association with this we have the 1.30am sightings at St
Ives and Penzance and the other numerous sightings over
Cornwall, Devon, Shropshire, South Yorkshire and Hampshire,
starting at 10.10pm on the and ending at 2.40am on the
31st.
If these reports are correct, and as I said earlier, I have no
reason to doubt them and my reports are also correct, then it
must be the case that at least one, if not more,_unidentified
flying objects were active over these areas on the night in
question - but what was their purpose? Were they I it here on a
specific mission, or just carryingout a nighttime surveillance
operation. The latter scenario is of course quite feasibly
given what we already know from their well documented past, but
what about the first proposition?
Well if we examine the evidence and what we already know
this alleged mode of operation, there is clearly a case for
this line of thinking.
In Timothy Goods .latest book 'Alien Update' he edits a whole
chapter on this very subject. He cites a number of cases from
/19

• ·it'fj(f l'lt
/19
(19)
Russia where ufos have been observed tracking rocket launches,
space flights and more importantly their re-entry procedures.
It seems that this activity has been monitored for some years
and that the Soviet Authorities are fully aware that their
space program has been subjected to some very scrutiny
by unidentified objects, which appear disc like and are able to
traverse their air space at will, and in some extraordinary
ways!
Additionally, it seems that Britain has also been the victim of
such activity. In her new book 'From Out Of The Blue' Jenny
Randles also explores this possibility. This book is the follow
up to another entitled 'Sky Crash' which she co-authored with
Dot Street and Brenda Butler and is more than just a
spectacular account of a ufo landing in Rendlesham Forest,
Suffolk, Nr the Bentwaters Air Base jointly manned by the RAF
and USAF. Around the time of tfre alleged landing it is known
that a similar re-entry of a Russian space rocket occurred over
the area. Following this, and in addition to the events at the
Bentwaters Base, a number of ufo sightings were received. Some
of the sightings were before the known re-entry time and indeed
after. This strongly implies that some unknown craft was
present over the area and as suggested by Jenny, may have been
interested in the re-entry.
The events at Bentwaters are in themselves quite remarkable and
suggest that a space vehicle of unknown origin actually landed
in Rendlesham Forest and that a possible 'alien liaison' took
place. The evidence presented does seem to substantiate this,
but as with most, if not·all of these cases, will we ever learn
the truth!
/20
. ::.. _;,
(20)
Unlike the Bentwaters case, this one has not to date thrown up
any evidence of· a ufo landing, but there is certainly enough
evidence to a ufo presence over the Westcountry, and
possible other parts of the country, on the evening before and
after the known re-entry of a Russian space rocket a.'t l.lOam.
My 5ut feeling is that this is exactly what occurred, and until
the present 'unknown object(s) reported upon are identified,
then they should without question be.classified for what they
are- 'Unidentified Flying Objects'.
' .

\REDACTION ORIGINAL I.
(2)
Fletchers Bridge, Bodmin
ime 1.10am. Two bright slightly yellowish objects I lights,
stationary 2,000' due north of his position - S.E. of Liskeard.
Watched object lift up and ascend banking left towards the S.E.
Object dropped ·slightly, then climbed and continued S.E. over
Torpoint, Plymouth. No sound. At height (about 10,000') a
vapour like trail appeared and what appeared to be a third
object or light source behind the object. Objects /Lights gave
the impression of being controlled or guided.
* Other side of Liskeard at approximately the same time, PCs
-and----were N.W. of liskeard and saw two
appear from the north and
head towards Liskeard.
6. Plymouth police received a call from a gentleman at approx
1.10am who reported seeing twp white lights flying over Stoke,
Plymouth. Incident not officially logged but noted by officer
on duty!
seen over gentlemans house. Report 'with
andPCs &-
ce tation, tree
Time 1.10am Saw two dot like objects I lights flying parallel,
fairly high, heading east. Sighting time 15 seconds.
9.* East Devon. Two police officers observe two white objects
flying easterly. Objects seen through binoculars - report to
follow from station Inspector.
10 Cotleigh, Devon
Time a er large light gold ye ow sh lights
heading towards Stockland. No noise, fairly fast, one light
slightly in front of the other!
Wellington, Somerset
lam Two bright white lights - like round balls, Small
vapour trails (lit up!).Very high. Speed very fast. No noise.
Time of sighting 20 seconds. Flying pararell N.W to S.E. but
could have been West to East!
\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT]
(3)
Taunton, Somerset ••
t white I yellowish objects,
flying parellel to each other. ng vapour trail - not smoke!
Objects approx 3" apart at height. Very high but not star
height! Time of sighting 20 seconds. Passed left to right in a
southerly direction.
13. Taunton Man - Wishes to remain anonymous.
Time 1.13am two very large luminous objects - glowing, silent.
After glow that stayed with objects - (fluorescent).
Speed- Gliding very fast. Direction N.N.W. to S.E. Seemed to
turn right. Time of sighting 2 minutes. Objects 2" to 3" apart
at height. Seen through binoculars. Felt compelled to get up
and go outside. No noise.
Taunton, Somerset.Time
turn ng rom sto rport. Saw two bright white
objects with whitish vapour trail. Thought vapour trail was lit
up by another light source! Very high in sky, appeared cigar
shaped and silver in colour. Flying parellel (in tandem) in an
easterly direction, south of his .position. Objects appeared 6"
to 7" apart at height. No noise.
15. Bridgewater,
Somerset
Time 1.15am 2 Ba ls of light - followed by vapour trail or a
light! No noise. Flying over Bridgewater in a south easterly
direction. Knew it was not an aircraft!.
16. PC Wiveliscombe,
Somerset. me t o ects - vapour
like trail. From right hand object/light appeared to be a long
light shining backwards! Height 10,000' Speed 2 or 3 times
faster than a jet airliner. 3" apart at height. Flying N.W. to
S.E. Right object appeared to be leading.
17.
Time
flying parellel, left object s
completely silent 'OZ FACTOR?'
seconds. Very low - if piloted
Bridgewater
s - trail of light behind.
ightly in front. No Noise -
Time of sighting 50 to 55
could have seen pilot.
/4
18.
Time .lOam to l.lSam
vapour reddish/orange
followed by s_econd 30
and decended to
they /it was going to
direction.
.
'
(' v ? .., •
. .
\;: - "' ... -· .
(4)
Carhampton, Minehead
Two white coloured lights -
in colour! First one object seen, then
seconds later. Flew parellel to each
approximately 2,000'. Observer thought
land! No noise. Flying in easterly
·


. [REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
DUFORO Case No 933
Annex 'A'
WESTCOUNTRY AND WALES SIGHTINGS - 31st March 1993
Event 'B'
Nr Kerris, Cornwall
am - 2 very bright lights, travelling fast, flying
parallel with wonderful vapour like trails. *Two smaller trails
to left hand trail! thought there might have been two other
smaller objects. Looking towards moon, from north, very high.
No sound from object/s but audible rumbling sound from ground
level. Time of sighting 30 seconds. When in cloud, object/s
illuminated them. Distance apart as seen from the ground = 1"
to
2. Pentregaler, Crymyn,
Dy
Time 1. am. Lady on hill side approximately 1,000' above sea
level. Attending sheep, observes 2 large white objects, flying
parallel, one slightly in front of the other. Time 2 minutes -
maybe less!, very high- vapour trail.
3. PCs - ............ Treharris Police Station,
Perrot treet,
Time1.10am. 2 bright white objects (brighter than stars) came
frm north west travelling south east, flying parellel to each
other- approximately same height as conventional aircraft -
steady pace. light vapour trail but third light or vapour trail
between the other two! Sighting time 2 to minutes. No noise.
overhead.
PCIIIIIIIJphoned MOD - told no aircraft known to be in the
area.
4. Sgt Bideford-
Time 1. East
driving into Lynton. Looking towa s t ristol Channel and
saw two white lights, which they they thought were attached to
a very large qbject. Estimated distance between lights as 500'.
No sound. ObJect passed overhead and headed south , south west.
Time of sighting 15 seconds. Height 2,000' plus!
* Same night, PC en-route to Holsworthy after
departing Lynton, o serve w ite lights pass over hjs vehicle
going in south westerly direction.
/2
Copy to:
Mr-
1. In the early hours of Vednesday 31 March an unidentified object was seen
over several parts of the UK. Most of the sightings were in Devon and Cornwall,
South Vales and Shropshire, although reports were received from other locations.
Ve are aware of at least 30 or 40 people who witnessed something, although this
number is growing.
2. Aside from the fact that so many people reported seeing something
strange, a number of other factors combine to make these sightings highly
unusual; firstly, there is some commonality in the description of the object,
and considerable commonality in the times of the sightings (around 1.10am).
Secondly, none of the usual explanations for UFOs seem applicable, and thirdly,
the reliability of the witnesses, most of whom were police officers, and some of
whom were military and civil aviation personnel. I have attached the report
made by a Corporal at RAF Cosford, together with three of the many other
reports, as illustrations.
3. As far as can be ascertained, no military aircraft of any kind were
operating in UK airspace at the time, as confirmed by both HQ MATO at RAF
Uxbridge, and RAF Vest Drayton.
4. Sector Operations Centre (South) at RAF Neatishead have told D Air Def's
staff that nothing was detected on Air Defence radar. London Air Traffic
Control Centre (Military) confirmed that nothing was detected on Air Traffic
Control radar.
5. RAF Fylingdales told me that a Russian rocket re-entering the atmosphere
at 12.10am would have been visible from the UK, but this time does not match the
majority of the sightings; furthermore, the descriptions from witnesses are not
consistent with this explanation. The Royal Observatory at Greenwich were aware
of no meteorite showers or similar occurrences.
6. DI55c have been consulted, but have not as yet been able to come to any
conclusions about the sightings.
7. Some of the reports state that the object was moving at a very high
speed (one estimate, based on timing the object over a known distance, was of
1100 mph), while some reported that the object hovered, moved slowly, and then
flew off at high speed. This, together with some of the other descriptions
given, suggests Aurora. Notwithstanding the US denials, these sightings might
prompt renewed speculation.
8. The UK's two main UFO groups are well aware of this wave of sightings,
and have told me that they have received many reports themselves. At least one
local newspaper has reported the sightings. Although we have not received any
press enquiries yet, there is always a possibility that questions will be asked,
and it might be difficult to maintain our ·usual line that no further action was
being taken as the sightings had been looked at, and were judged to be of no
defence significance.

..• ,., .• . .. . . · .. •
\( fPlE'O ..
;· ••. I have spoken to as many of the police and military wi C1.s. I .could
ontact; nearly everyone I spoke to said that the··object was unlike·a.n)'th1ng ·
they had ever seen before. ··
10. Given the above, it would not seem sufficient to simply write these
sightings off. It seems that an unidentified object of unknown origin was
operating in the UK Air Defence Region without being detected on radar; this
would appear to be of considerable defence significance, and I recommend that we
investigate further, within MOD or with the US authorities.
(AS)2a
MB8245-



._ ..... • • • •.·.

I
·---··--..-...-... ... , .. .... ,. ...
]REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUI\IIENT I
MEMORANDUM
To sec (As) 2a From WO.-

Date 19 April 93
Your ref D/Sec(AS)12/1
'l'el Ext
Our ref INC 055/93
subject ll.F..O .. S.iqb:tings .. l.9.9.3 ..
1. As requested we have completed the radar replay for Wednesday the
31 March, transferring this information onto a video recording for
further examination.
2. I have attached your map on which I have now placed the radar
heads used together with numbers which now relate to individual
timings. Unfortunately the-..clee-Hill·radar head was not wot"king on
primary radar during the recording period, therefore, only aircraft
working Secondary Surveillance Radar can be seen.
3. Listed below is the breakdown for each incident time you gave us
which we have now changed to zulu time.
1. 302310z
2. 302315z
3. 302355z
4. 3l0009z
SA. 310010z
Clee-Hill
Clee-Hill
Clee-Hill
Squawk 1461/039 N/E to S/W
Nothing seen.
Traffic out of going north
4652/086 vicinity Mommoutb 2355z. Squawk
1461/040 vicinity Bristol Filton 2347z
going S/W, changing to 7201.
Clee-Hill Squawk·6416/090 northbound.
Burrington OOlSz primary contacts slow vicinity of
Launcester and Bodmin.
5B.
sc.
6A.
310010z Clee-Hill
310010z Clee-Hill
310015z Clee-Hill
Northbound traffic on A25 squawk 2363/242.
Nothing seen.
Squawk 4651/110 from the north through
Salisbury Plain area towards Southampton.
Squawk 2363/239 north on A25 and squawk 6B.
Pease Pottage
310015z Clee-Hill
7. 310020z
8. N/K
9. 310140z
6416/090 lSnm east of Shawbury northbound.
Burrington Intermittent slow primary contacts close to
the radar head moving N/E towards Chivenor,
another to south manoeuvring. East of the
radar head primary contact slow headinq east.
No times given.
Clee-Hill Squawk 2304/200 descending on A25. At 0146z
overhead Shawhury squawk 5231/203 southbound.
5. Unfortunately I would say there was nothinq unusual seen on the
radar recordings, I hold the master tapes and video recordings
until we hear from you. Should you require any further assistance
please call we are only to happy to help.
Rank WO Name- Signature
2.00'39l:ld t·l S I tl f...IOC! .::1 6£:L 86, C!dl:l 61
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PAGE 2 RXDBHW 0986 UNCLAS
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P/DATE AND TIME OF RECEIPT/050214Z_DCT 96//_
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LOOSE MINUTE
D/DA0/1/13
Tact 96
Sec{AS)2al
UNUSUAL AIR PHENOMENON - 5 Oct 96
1. After efforts to analyse the various sightings of
lights which occurred in the early hours of 5 Oct 96, I
that three separate phenomena can be identified; each is
described below with a possible or probable explanation.
LIGHTS IN THE WASH AREA
unusual
believe
briefly
2. Stationary and generally red/green/white flashing lights to
the south east at about 40-45 degrees above the horizon; no
reliable height or range could be determined. The lights were
observed by Skegness and Boston Police between 0214Z and
approximately 0600Z (daybreak); similar lights were observed from
the MV Conocoast (approx 8 miles ESE of Skegness from 0345Z until
daybreak. The lights observed from Skegness were captured on video
which is being sent to RAF Neatishead, however, the result is
believed to be of poor quality.
3. The fact that these lights were observed from three separate
locations high above the horizon and in the same general
directiop, without corroborating radar data, suggests a distant
celestial source. Venus rising may be a possible explanation
since the planet can appear bright, coloured and to flash in
certain conditions.
LIGHTS TO THE NORTH OF MV CONOCOAST
4. Stationary red, blue, green and white flashing lights to the
north and 'very high', 40-45 degrees above the horizon. Lights
observed from the MV Conocoast between 0246Z and approximately
0600Z (daybreak).
5. These lights were observed from a single location out at sea
in the opposite direction to those at para 2. They would appear
to have originated from an area over the North Sea but again at an
angle well above the horizon. These lights were not the object of
any attention on 5 oct, or subsequently, but remain unexplained.
PERMANENT RADAR ECHOS
6. Generally stationary radar returns, without height or IFF/
SSR, observed on the NATS Claxby radar at 0210Z until 1105Z over
Boston and later on the RAF Waddington ATC radar.
7. These returns were almost certainly from a permanent
geographical feature (St Botolph's church spire in Boston, 273ft)
which were initially observed while attempting to associated an
air track with the lights; in fact, no aircraft movement was
associated with lights in the Wash or E
This church spire is known in aviation circles as
-··stump' and appears. occasionally on some radars in
propagation·conditions.
Anglian area.
the 'Boston
certain radar
8. Conclusion. The prolonged sighting· of stationary coloured
flashing lights reported by the Skegness police on 5 oct 9 6 had no .
significance for the integrity of tm·Airspace and no associated
air vehicle was detected by civil or military radars.
Wg Cdr
ADGE 1
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D/DA0/1/13
/3 Nov 96
Sec(AS)2a1
Copy to: AOAD1
LETTER TO SOFS FROM MR MARTIN REDMOND MP CONCERNING ALLEGED
'UNIDENTIFIED FLYING CRAFT SIGHTINGS' ON 5 OCT
Reference: Mr Redmond's letter to SofS dated 24 Oct 96.
1. At Reference, Mr Martin Redmond MP raises several points
concerning visual and radar observations which occurred during the
early hours of Saturday 5 Oct 96 and which are referred to,
incorrectly, as 'a visual unidentified flying craft sighting which
was correlated by various different military radar systems'. The
substance of Mr Redmond's letter is based on various reports which
appeared in the local press, some incorrect, or
tive, which I understand were provided to him by
the staffordshire UFO Group. In addition, the le er
serious criticism of the Service, and of the UK Air
Defence system in particular; for this reason, exceptionally, the
facts surrounding the incident have been established in
considerable detail and set out below, together with resumes of
observations, actions and explanations. A map showing the location
of key agencies, equipment and observations is at Annex A.
SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
2. Initial Observations. At approximately 0205Z on 5 Oct 96 a
Skegness police officer on mobile patrol at nearby Addlethorpe
observed stationary multicoloured lights to the east and low in
the sky which he reported to the control room in Skegness. As a
precaution, the control room relayed the sighting to Great
Yarmouth Coastguard Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC),
suspecting it could be related to an incident at sea. The MRCC,
unaware of any maritime activity, asked the Air Rescue
Coordination centre (ARCC) at RAF Kinless whether they were aware
of any air activity or incident in the wash area. The ARCC had no
knowledge of any such air activity and, in turn, asked the Control
and Reporting Centre (CRC) at RAF Neatishead if any aircraft
activity was present on the radar in that area; Neatishead had no
unidentified radar contact on the air defence radars being used to
provide air surveillance in the area and ARCC subsequently asked
the Distress and Diversion (D&D}, located at the London Air
Traffic Control Centre (LATCC) West Drayton (not at RAF Northwood
as the Coastguard erroneously assumed and the press subsequently
reported). The D&D Cell reported a radar plot on the National Air
Traffic Services Claxby radar over Boston to ARCC, thence to MRCC.
At the same time, CRC Neatishead, which had conducted a search on
·' · . .-· .
all available displays, observed the same plot on the same Claxby
radar in the same position. This information was also relayed to
ARCC thence to MRCC; by now, MRCC had or
subconsciously associated the reports of lights with the Boston
radar return and assumed an investigative and coordination role
for the rest of the night.
3. Actions by Air Defence System. Meanwhile, CRC Neatishead's
inquiries had revealed no sign of air movements or military
exercises in the area and there was no evidence of unidentified
air activity on any radar; the stationary radar plot, without
associated height or IFF/SSR support, therefore, was judged by
experienced operators at both Neatishead and the D&D Cell to be a
permanent echo, and the separate stationary lights as some form of
natural phenomena of no air defence or air concern. It was clear
that no flying craft had penetrated the UKADR or was present on
any radar; furthermore, the unrelated stationary light reports
were not suspicious in nature or of significance to air or
maritime safety, therefore, no recommendation to scramble a Quick
Reaction Alert aircraft from RAF Leuchars to investigate either
the permanent echo or the reported lights was sought.
4. Subsequent Reporting. Updates and further information on
both the plot and lights continued to be sought by MRCC from
several sources on open circuits,and reported, and sometimes
distorted, in the process. Further interest in the radar plot was
kept alive at the instigation of the coastguard, leading to the
eventual involvement of several other control agencies including
LATCC(Civil), LATCC(Military), Anglia Radar and Waddington
Approach. Further interest in the lights was maintained by the
coastguard until they disappeared with the dawn, involving a
tanker vessel at sea, Boston and Skegness Police Forces and
LATCC(Civil).
INVESTIGATION OF RADAR PLOT AND VISUAL SIGHTINGS
5. The various observations which occurred in the early hours of
5 Oct 96 and the various phenomenae have been investigated in
considerable detail. The relevant logs maintained by on-duty
Military and civilian personnel have been studied and, where
possible, key observers and operators, both civil and military,
have been interviewed by telephone.
THE BOSTON PLOT
6. Plot Characteristics. A radar Plot was observed in the
position of Boston, Lines, on the National Air Traffic Services
(NATS) sensor at Claxby, near Market Rasen, when attention was
drawn to the area by Great Yarmouth Coastguard. It was observed
by the D&D Cell from approximately 0225Z and by CRC Neatishead
from 0230Z; both organisations have access to the same radar
display although neither uses that radar on a routine basis for
surveillance or aircraft control in the Wash area. Later, the
plot was observed by Anglia Radar at stanstead, which opened at
0600, again on the Claxby radar display. The radar plot was
always single and stationary and defied attempts to obtain height
or IFF/SSR information on it. Significantly, the plot was never
present on radar displays from the NATS sensors at Cromer and
Debden nor on the air defence radar at Trimmingham; although a
stationary return was detected on the AR15 approach radar at RAF
Waddington at 0749Z, this was inaccurate reporting of a separate
permanent echo. Three aircraft, which transitted the Boston area
at 0710Z, 0830, and 1105, failed to sight any airborne object. A
map showing radar locations and the position of the plot is at
Annex B.
7. Plot Analysis. The characteristics of the plot confirm
beyond reasonable doubt that it was a permanent radar echo, and
the fact that it could only be detected by a single nearby sensor
indicates a relatively low physical feature which, however,
appears as a permanent radar echo only in certain weather
conditions; for example, it was not present on the Claxby radar
on 8 Nov but could be seen on 11 Nov. It is highly probable that
the echo was caused by the 273ft Spire of st Botolph's Church,
Boston (the stump), as suggested at 1105Z by Anglia Radar,
a unit familiar with operating aircraft in the Wash area; however,
it is not possible to be absolutely certain without conducting
further detailed technical study.
THE STATIONARY LIGHTS
8. Analysis of Observations. Various sightings of either
stationary, multicoloured, flashing lights or a stationary bright
white light were made between approximately 0205Z and dawn by
observers at Skegness and Boston and on board the MV CONOCOAST
some 8 miles to the east of Skegness. However, when asked at 0227
and 0240Z respectively, police at Kings Lynn and the MV NAUTIC w,
some 16nms ENE of Skegness, observed no lights which they
considered unusual. In addition, the crews of two civilian
airliners flying through the area at between 0520 and 0530Z
reporting no sightings of lights when asked by LATCC(Civil). Only
one unsolicited observation of lights seems to have occurred: by
approximately 0205Z on patrol at Addlethorpe near
Skegness. All other recorded observations were made on the
instigation of Great Yarmouth Coastguard. Moreover, while various
reference has been made to an object associated with the lights,
this has been by inference only on the part of the observers. A
full synopsis of sightings, times, bearings and angles is at Annex
C together with maps showing the locations of observation. There
is little reliable or accurate bearing and elevation information
since several observers confessed to being either unconcerned, not
very interested, or admitted to being poor at angles; the only
accurate measurements are derived from the Skegness police video
tape of the lights, filmed at 0350Z and from the MV CONOCOAST at
0401Z which measured bearings based on the Ship's compass. While
the lights were generally regarded as unusual, no observer
confessed to being alarmed by them; indeed, the initial observer
watched the multicoloured flashing lights change characteristics
and elevation until dawn when looked just like any other
star'.
, ... ·. ·:·.·
9. Expert Opinion. The observations were examined by the Royal
Greenwich Observatory and a report of its findings is at Annex D.
The report acknowledged the uncertainties in the estimates of
azimuth and elevation of the observations and could only provide a
best guess of the likely light source(s) as summarized below.
a. The Boston Police may have been looking at the planet
Venus which was exceptionally bright in the early morning sky
on 5 Oct, rising at 0209Z on a bearing slightly north of
east; this is consistent with the first Boston observation.
b. Based on measurements obtained from the police video,
the Skegness observations could also have been Venus. The
Observatory notes that when a bright star or planet is low in
the sky, even to elevation 200, it is quite common for it to
appear to show colours which are often described as flashing
or rotating. These characteristics and the report of the
first Skegness observer tend to favour the Venus theory.
c. The Observatory can offer no likely celestial
explanation for either sets of lights observed from the MV
CONOCOAST.
SUMMARY
10. Following extensive investigation, it can be concluded that
the radar plot observed in a position at Boston was a permanent
radar echo; it was correctly assessed as such by CRC Neatishead at
the time and no further air defence related action taken. The
bright stationary lights observed from Boston and Skegness were
probably due to light from the planet Venus which began rising at
the time of the first observation; it was particularly bright and
could have appeared multicoloured and flashing to some observers.
No explanation can be offered for the two sets of lights observed
from MV CONOCOAST.
11. For completeness and further reference, various notes are
attached at Annex E, together with a list of organizations and
persons consulted in the course of this investigation. In
addition, abbreviated comment on the detail contained in Mr
Redmond's letter to SofS are at Annex F. A copy of the video of
the Skegness lights, copied by Lincolnshire Police HQ, is
attached.
12. This report is the result of almost full time, painstaking
investigation over a period of 8 working days and, although all
the light phenomenae have not been conclusively explained,
research has not revealed evidence or admissions that alarming or
extraordinary events were being witnessed. It is likely that
similar detailed investigation into light phenomenae would produce
equally less than conclusive but unastonishing results; they
could not be achieved on a routine basis, however, without
dedicated resources being allocated to the task.
Annexes:
A. Agencies, Locations and Equipment.
B. Radar Plots over Boston.
c. Synopsis on Observations of Lights.
D. Royal Greenwich Observatory Report.
ADGE 1
MB4227
E. Miscellaneous Notes
F. Abbreviated Comments on Mr Redmond's Letter.
Attached: Lincolnshire Police copy of Skegness Video
AGENCIES, LOCATIONS AND EQUIPMENT - 5 OCT 96 ANNEXA TO
D/DA0/1/13
DATED 13 NOV 96
Stanstead
CLAXBYand
CROMER Radar
West Drayton
All ATC radar r:; ::
displays incl.
CLAXBYand
DEBDEN
TRIMMINGHAM
Air Defence Radar
CRC Neatishead
TRIMMINGHAM AD radar
CLAXBY & DEBDEN ATC
radar displays
Gt Yarmouth COASTGUARD
Maritime Rescue Coord Centre
ATCRadar
0 Visual Observation Locations
c:J
CJ
CJ
Radar Control Centre
Coastguard Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre
RadarHead Q
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0747Z- Asked to look for
plot 120°/23nm (Boston).
Plot observed but later
confessed to mistake in
reported position; was, in
fact, a separate permanent
echo 'in Skegness direction'.
CLAXBY
Approx 0230- 1200Z
Plot 221°/16nm from
Skegness- stationary,
no height or IFF. Observed
on CLAXBY radar displays
at CRC Neatishead, Anglia
Radar& D&D Cell.
SKEGNESS
CROMER
ANNEXBTO
DIDA0/1113
DATED 13 NOV 96
TRIMMINGHAM
Boston Plot • Active Investigation
0710- London Mil6153 squawk passed 3nm
from plot FL150- no contact
0830- Anglia radar 7000 squawk flew
through plot at 900ft- no contact
1105- Waddington Approach 1743 squawk
transitted Boston area at 2000ft- nothing
seen
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SYNOPSIS OF OBSERVATIONS OF UNUSUAL LIGHTS- 5 OCT
SKEGNESS POLICE
ANNEXCTO
PIDA0/1/13
DATED 13 NOV 96
Observer: patrol at Addlethorpe. Stationary, blue green red lights to the East, appeared elongated, low in the sky.
Observed at about 02002 then periodica11y until 04002; Jight remained stationary but became progressive higher and clear; by 04002 'the star
was fairly high in the sky looking very similar to the rest'.
Observer: PC First seen 02052 following infom1ation from white light with red green and yellow
lights rotating around it - much lower than any star, estimate 50,000ft. Last observed at 0420 when 'it looked just like any other star'.
Observer: Room visual plus video
Position: Visual from 3rd floor window, from roof above.
Four observations at 0214,0350, 0450(when lights videoed) and just before going off duty at 06002. Stationary red, green, blue and white
flashing light. Observer admitted to being 'not very interested' in the lights.
BOSTON POLICE
Observer: Inspector
Position: Through 3rd floor window of Police station and outside.
Observed intermittently between approx 0230 and dawn: stationary bright white light, constant azimuth and elevation - slightly north of east and
about 40 degrees up .; 'did not fit the description of the lights being reported by Skegness' - saw the same light 'a couple of months ago but
further north on that occasion'
Observer: -(Control Room
Position: Through control room window on 3rd floor.
Two observations at 04 I 2 and 0503 - Just a fixed bright light, not flashing, no colours.
C-1
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KINGS LYNN POLICE
0227Z - No reports of unusual lights.
MV CONOCOAST
" ~ ' ~ " ~ ' " ' " r ' " ' r carrying fuel to Dredgers offlngoldmeiis on north westerly heading - 4
(Master AN Other (now on ONWARD MARINER- and I on
Two sets of sim1 lights to north and south; observed by all crew members intermittently (busy working the ship) from 0246 til daybreak. -
observed about every 30 mins or so. Constant azimuth from ship, 345 and 160 degrees, could not say whether relative bearing changed since
ship was moving- elevation about 20 degrees according to Ship Captain; other observer states northerly light about 10 degrees above the
horizon and southerly 30 degrees. Both sets of lights bright and flashing red, green, blue and white lights to the south were brightest.
MVNAUTJCW
Cargo vessel by North Race Buoy at 0240Z (53.14.97N, 000.44.00E)
No lights observed.
C-2
TABLE SHOWING CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER OF OBSERVATIONS
Time
0200ish
0214
0230ish
PC-
Skegness
Skegness
Insp-
Boston
Stationary, blue green and red lights to the East, appeared
elongated, low in the sky. Observed at about 0200Z then
periodically until 0400Z; light remained stationary but became
progressive higher and clear; by 0400Z 'the star was fairly high in
the sky looking very similar to the rest'.
Very bright, stationary but rotating coloured lights in easterly
direction; position about 5 degrees higher in elevation than when
video taken (0450) and 5-10 degrees further to the north in
azimuth. Lights appeared over LHS of roof of 3 storey block of
flats as seen in the video.
Single bright white light, not coloured or flashing, direction ENE
(based on it being 'south of the direction of Skegness '),fairly high
about 40 degrees elevation. Constant azimuth and elevation until it
disappeared as dawn broke - observer confessed to he poor at angles.
0227 Police -Kings Lynn No unusual lights reported.
0240 MV NAUTIC W No lights seen.
0246 CONOCOAST- ) MV heading NW. Two sets of stationary red, green and white
)flashing lights; one set to north, other off port quarter, ie southerly,
)one mile high. First noticed approx 0225 (continues ... ./)
C-3
Assume azimuth 090 +or- 15/20,
elevation 5-20 degrees.
Elevation approx 20-25 degrees
Azimuth approx 110 degrees
Assume azimuth about 070
degrees +or- 20; assume
elevation 30 +or- 0
)Assume azimuth 345 and 160
)degrees from 0225 until 0550
)Assume elevation constant at 20
)degrees

0308 CONOCOAST
0345 CONOCOAST
0350
Skegness
0401 CONOCOAST
0412
0445
0503
0552 CONOCOAST
)Lights stationary on seemingly constant bearing (but ship was
)moving). Constant elevation assessed at 20 degrees. Southerly set of
)lights were brightest. Lights observed every 30 minutes or so until
)daybreak at constant azimuth and elevation-
)bearing 345 and 160 degrees true at 20 degrees elevation.
)Assume mean position 53 12N,
) 00 34E
Video made of lights. Position measu
through Police HQ Lincoln- Sgt
Nov by duty staff Azimuth 115 degrees, elevation
5-20 degrees elevation 15-20 degrees
and 115 degrees azimuth.
Same characteristics as before
Fixed bright white single light to SE (cardinal estimated using St
Botolph 's spire as reference) 40-45 degrees elevation.
Lights still 'quite bright and flashing bearing SSE and 30-50
degrees above horizon.
Lights moved to SSE, 60 degrees elevation, same fixed bright white
stable light.
As above: Azimuth still 345 and 160 degrees, Elevation 20 Or 30
degrees.
Lights still in same place.
C-4
Assume azimuth 135 degrees +or-
15120; elevation 40 degrees +or-
10115.
Assume elevation 40 degrees
+or-10; Assume azimuth 135 +
or-10/15?
Assume elevation 60 +or-10115
degrees, Azimuth 157 +or-10115
say between 140 and 170 degrees.
Unreliable observation for exact
coords.
.•
DOCUMENTED/RESEARCHED VISUAL SIGHTINGS e
OF FLASHING MULTICOLOURED LIGHTS FROM SKEGNESS
_ ... -
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0205Z - Bearing E, low in the sky
becoming higher and clearer over
next 2 hrs when it became 'apparent
that it was a star'
0214Z- Bearing 110°, calculated
in relation to measured video
bearing at 0350Z. Elevation
higher than when videoed 20/25°??
0350Z - Bearing 115° (compass
measured by Skegness from position
oflights on video), elevation 15/20°.
0214Z- 'Bearing SE, high in the sky'
- Estimated by observer.
C-5
0350Z - 'Bearing SSE, 30-50° above
horizon' - Estimated by observer.
0550Z- 'Lights in the same place'.

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DOCUMENTED/RESEARCHED VISUAL SIGHTINGS e
OF A STABLE BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT FROM BOSTON
0230Z ( approx)- ·Bearing ENE,
fairly high about 40° elevation -
Estimated by observer who states that
light stayed on same azimuth and
elevation until daybreak.
0412Z- 'Bearing SE, about 40-45°

0503Z- 'Moved to bearing SSE,
60° b h h . '

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C-6
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DOCUMENTED/RESEARCHED VISUAL SIGHTINGS
OF FLASHING MULTICOLOURED LIGHTS e
FROM MV CONOCOAST
SCOTI' PATCH BUOY
Flashing stationary red, green, blue and white
lights observed about every 30 mins from approx
0225Z until 0550Z.
Bearings seemingly constant at 345° and 160° but
ship under way. Lights on both bearings identical,
although southernmost set brightest.
Elevation constant: assessed at 20° by one
observer or by another at 10° for the northern
lights and 30° for the southern.
C-7
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DOCUMENTED/RESEARCHED VISUAL SIGHTINGS •
CONSOLIDATED
MVNAUTICW
no sighting
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Wing ComOJ.aD.der
ADGE 1, MOD
FAX
Dear Wing Commander
Royal Greenwich Observatory
Madingley Road
Cambridge OEZ
United
Direct
email
ANNEX D TO
D/QA0/1/13
DATED 13 NOV 96
I have examined the reports of bright lights seen on October 5 as ::set out in your
fax of 11 November.
When a bright star or planet is low down in the sky (even to elevation 20°) it is quite
common for it t<.1 appear to show colours, which are often described as 'ftashing'
or 'rotating'. It is important to consider- a person's eyesight in interpreting their
descriptions of sightings.
It seems to me in this case that the different observet·s may ha.ve been looking at
diffe1·ent objects. Because of the uncertainties in the estimates o! elevation a.nd
tt.zimuth I cannot be certain as to what was seen, but this is my best guess.
I think that boLh Inspector Boston Police may have been
looking at Venus. Venus has been except1onally bright in the early morning sky
over the past weeks and has stood out from all around it. The actual positions o£
the planet on October 5 are a.s follows.
UT BST Altitude Azimuth
02:00 03:00
-20
68°
02:09 03:09 70° Venus·rlse
03:00 04:00
+70 80°
04:00 05:00 +16° 92°
05:00 06:00 +25° 105°
06:00 07:00 +33° 118°
07:00 08:00 +40° 135°
I confess to being puzzled as to what the of MY CO NO COAST were watching.
Presumably they would have had a. dear view of the whole sky. Can you rule out
that they may have been seeing some laser show with the beams reflected in a hazy
sky? I am also puzzled as to why they saw two sets of lights at approximately
180°apa.rt.
An establishment of the
b-L
Particle Physics and Astronomv Research •

_ .. --
_.., .&. I; -tO
6
observations are also hard to interpret. What does he n1ean. when
says 'not very interested''? Why did he take the video? Tt. is possible
!tom his own record of. his obse.rvation tha.t he was looking at the same lights as
the crew of MV CONOCOAST seen at azimuth 160°, although the later compass
measurement of tll.e light seen on the video could have been Venu11;!
Also, one should note that the Moon was just past Last Quarter o.n October,
rising at 23:36 BST on October 4 a.nd setting at 15:13 BST on October 5. This
wo1..tld ha.ve had the effect of 'washing out' all but the brightest stars. H this was
so then the bright stars Sirius or Ca.nopus might be candidates for these sightings.
Howevet.", if the sky was really clear I don't thiuk either of objects would ha.ve
fooled people who axe presumably all quite used to working a.t night and therefore
are quite fa.z:Wliar with looking at the sky. · ·
I hope this has helped.

ANNEX E TO
DA0/1/13
DATED 13 NOV 96
LIST OF PERSONS/ORGANISATIONS AND MISCELLANEOUS NOTES


on control room until 0600Z 5 Oct
extension
Room
on duty 5 Oct
duty 5 oct 96)
Kings Lynn Police
0237Z No lights reported
HQ Lincolnshire Police
Head of Media Services
Nettleham
LINCOLN

Skegness Police Video sent by HQ Lincolnshire Police to MOD ADGE 1
·an 5 Nov 96, received 6 Nov together with copies of
police incident log and statements from PCs
Video taken from Police station roof (3rd storey)
Runs for about 5mins - taken at approx 00350Z - lights on a
bearing of 115 degrees true about 15-20 degrees elevation.
Building in bottom left corner is 3 storey block of flats
Briggate
searcher' and believed to be collaborating
of the staffordshire UFO Group who is
inv ng the incident and who Mr
Redmond to ask the questions' - Tel ..............
.. .
coastguard
nation Centre
duty 5 Oct
MV NAUTIC W (callsign J8FK)
Radars
Cargo Vessel registered in st Vincent
Position by North Race Buoy at 0240Z (53.14.97N 000.44.00E)
No lights observed
CRC Neatishead
Flt Lt ............. - duty Track Production
070 relieved by Flt Ltllllllllllll
-home:
ation Centre
LATCC Distress and Diversion Cell, West Drayton

5 Oct: Flt Lt
LATCC{Civil) Controller
Supervisor number)
aircraft between 0520 and 0530Z if
lights in area of Wash/East Anglia
(Civil
Asked 2 civil
they could see any unusual
as they flew by.
Aircraft 1, DELTA Airlines FL 370 from USA on track from
Isle of Man to Amsterdam; asked when near Scunthorpe, no
contact in Wash/East Anglia area but saw 'indistinct lights
which might have been flares' about 20 minutes previously in
Irish sea area.
Aircraft 2, UK Air out of Manchester to Continent; asked
when 30nm south east of ottringham heading south east;
nothing seen.

,-;:·t{,;(it

Waddington Approach AR15 radar

within 30nrn and to FL95.
Fg Off on duty 5 Oct 96
and Military aircraft
Met Office Bracknell
Weather Records
Roshan ----
No Oct - clear night
servatory, Cambridge
ANNEX F TO
D/DA0/1/13
DATED 13 NOV 96
ABBREVIATED COMMENTS ON MR REDMOND'S LETTER
1. General. Mr Redmond's comments are largely based on radio
traffic between Gt Yarmouth Coastguard Maritime Rescue
Coordination Centre and various agencies which was either released
or intercepted then reported in the press and interpreted in
various ways; erroneously, the visual observations of lights have
been linked with persistent radar returns from a permanent echo at
Boston Lines.
2. Para 1. There was no visual identified flying craft only
unusual lights; correlation by 'various different military radar
systems' did not occur.
3. Para 2.
a. Lights with different characteristics were observed to
the E and/or SE of Skegness and Boston by Police and by the
crew of MV Conocoast some a miles east of Skegness. A
separate stationary object was detected on one ATC radar at
Claxby, Lines, over Boston and observed on the same radar
display at Neatishead, Anglia Radar (later) and the D&D Cell
at the London Air Traffic Control Centre (LATCC} West
Drayton; a stationary object was also detected much later on
the Waddington approach radar, however this was in a separate
position, not over Boston. Three aircraft subsequently flew
close to the 'object' but no sighting of an airborne vehicle
was made.
b. RAF Northwood was never involved in this event.
confusion has arisen because Gt Yarmouth coastguard, referred
incorrectly to 'D&D Northwood' instead of 'D&D West Drayton'
in several transmissions or conversations; this error was
reproduced in press reports.
4. Para 3.
a. Aircraft were not scrambled because there was no
evidence whatsoever of an unidentified airborne vehicle in
the vicinity.
b. Tornado F3 QRA aircraft are held on high alert at RAF
Leuchars but not routinely at Leeming or coningsby.
c. The RAF Air Rescue Coordination centre (ARCC), Kinloss
was only involved by Gt Yarmouth Coastguard Maritime Rescue
Coordination centre (MRCC) to ascertain whether they knew of
any air activity in the area. ARCC, in turn, asked CRC
Neatishead and D&D who replied in the negative; ARCC
subsequently relayed several messages between D&D/Neatishead
and the MRCC concerning the stationary radar plot.
5. Para 4. Locations of permanent echoes are well known to
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tlbdar operators who work routinely in particular areas using the
same radar head, as is borne out by the information from Anglia
concerning the Boston stump. No Air Defence radar detected the
Boston echo. Neatishead's 'skilled operators' rarely use the
Claxby ATC Radar in the Boston area, nor do D&D and, hence, had
not encountered this particular radar echo before; the echo was
seen by 3 control agencies using the same radar at Claxby;
Waddington reported an echo at 0749 when they were asked to look
1200/23nm (over Boston), however, investigations revealed a
reporting error and this plot was a separate permanent echo
towards Skegness. The radar plots could not be correlated with
the visual sightings of lights and, geographically, were quite
separate.
6. Para 5
a. The video taken by the Skegness police did not disappear
into the bowels of the Ministry's Main Building. It was sent
by Inspector ~ Skegness police to Lincolnshire Police
HQ and held ~ e ead of Media Services. A copy was
supplied tollllllllll an 'independent UFO researcher' on 18
Oct and to ~ G E 1, on 5 Nov 96. No copy was sent to
Neatishead.
b. RAF Air Defence Ground Environment units, including CRC
Neatishead, produce a Recognised Air Picture of air activity
in the UKADR 24 hours a day. Standard procedures exist for
investigating unidentified aircraft and these were followed
in this case. Experienced operators carefully judged that
there was no evidence of unidentified flying craft present in
the UKADR and did not, therefore, seek authority to scramble
air defence aircraft held on alert at RAF Leuchars.
7. Para 6
a. Question 1
CRC Neatishead - Responsible for:
the compilation of the Recognised Air Picture in
that portion of the UKADR south of 55 degrees north.
Control of Air Defence aircraft on missions to
preserve the Integrity of UK airspace.
ARCC Kinless - To liaise with and support national
emergency organisations by allocating air search and rescue
resources to incidents.
D&D Cell, West Drayton - Provide Air Traffic Control
Emergency and Fixer services to Civilian and Military
aircraft operating in the London Flight Information Region
RAF Waddington - Task includes the provision of a Lower
Airspace Radar Service (LARS) to Military and Civil ac on
request out to 30nms (or further if airspace quiet) and up to
FL095
Video - see above.
b. Question 2
There was no evidence of unidentified aircraft being
present in the UKADR on 5 Oct 96, therefore, there was no
reason to scramble aircraft on alert. Police and the tanker
MV CONOCOAST saw LIGHTS not objects or any flying craft. No
lights were observed by any aircraft in the area; negative
reports were received from 2 civilian aircraft which flew by
the area at 0520-0530Z
c. Question 3
Procedures exist to scramble aircraft to investigate
unidentified aircraft detected on radar, which was not the
case on 5 Oct.
l"
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U N C L A S S 1 F I E D
CWV079 05/1804 279C0988
FOR CAB
ROUTINE/ROUTINE 051630Z OCT 96
FROM UKCAOC HIGH WYCOMBE
TO MODUI< AIR
INFO HO 11/18 GP BENTLEY PRIORY
CRC NEATISI-IEAD
U N C L A S S I F I E D
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MSGID/AERIAL PHENOMENA//
A/DTG/0-S0214Z/ I v·..---
8/DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT/A STRANGE RED AND GREEN ROTAfiNG LIGHf OR
POSSIBLY PAIR OF OBJECTS FLASHING RED, GREEN. BLUE AND WHITE OVER
BOSTON, LINCOLNSHIRE. VERY BRIGHT. NO NOISE. NO HEIGHf BUT ASSESSED
BY VISUAL SIGHTINGS AS APPROX 1 MILE HIGH-TO VERY HIGH/RADAR CONfACf
REPORTED BY LONDON RADAR AND CRC NEATISHEAD ON CLAXBY NATS RADAR HEAD
BUT INITIAL PLOT HAD BEEN SUSPECTED AS CLUTTER//
C/EXACT POSITION OF OBSERVER/SEVERAL OBSERVATIONS RANGING FROM BOSfON
\ POLICE, CREW OF MV CONOCAUST AND POSSIBLE SIGHTING FROM CREW OF AC
. UNDER LONDON RADAR CONTROL. FURTHER CONTACTS MEMBERS OF PUBLIC;;
1
D/HOW OBSERVED/VISUAL BY BINOCULARS<MV CONOCAUST>. VIDEOtBOSfON
PAGE 2 RXDBHW 0986 UNCLAS
POLICE>AND NAKED EYE BY OTHERS//
E/DIRECTION OF OBJECT AT 1ST SIGHTING/OVER BOSTON;;
F/ANGLE OF SIGHT/40-45 DEGREES ABOVE I-IORIZON<BOSTON POLICE)//
G/DISTANCE NIL//
H/MOVEMENTS/OBJECTS APPEARED fO MOVE NE/SW OVER A RANGE OF ABOUT
8NI'1//
J/MET CONDITIONS OBSERVED DURING OBSERVATIONS/GOOD WIIH GOOD VMC
REPORTED BY AC/HOWEVER. A NUMBER OF THUNDERSTORMS ACfiVE IN EAST
.ANGLIA REGION//

STEEPLE WI·HCH DOES OCCASIONAL,LY APPEAR ON li'ADARL
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M/NAME AND ADDRESS OF.INFORMER/AS
N/BACI<GROUND QF_ __ INFORI'IANT THAI .l"IAY Qt;:: .. VOLUNTEERED/NIL//
P/DATE AND TII"'E OF RECEIF'T/050214Z_()J;T 96// ..
CUANY UNUSUAL MET CONDITlQNS/THUN(•.F;:RSTORI'IS EAST ANGI..,IA//
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LOOSE MINUTE
D/DA0/1/13
Toct 96
sec(AS)2al
UNUSUAL AIR PHENOMENON - 5 Oct 96
1. After efforts to analyse the various sightings of
lights which occurred in the early hours of 5 Oct 96, I
that three separate phenomena can be identified; each is
described below with a possible or probable explanation.
LIGHTS IN THE WASH AREA
unusual
believe
briefly
2. Stationary and generally red/green/white flashing lights to
the south east at about 40-45 degrees above the horizon; no
reliable height or range could be determined. The lights were
observed by Skegness and Boston Police between 0214Z and
approximately 0600Z (daybreak); similar lights were observed from
the MV Conocoast (approx 8 miles ESE of Skegness from 0345Z until
daybreak. The lights observed from Skegness were captured on video
which is being sent to RAF Neatishead, however, the result is
believed to be of poor quality.
3. The fact that these lights were observed from three separate
locations high above the horizon and in the same general
directiop, without corroborating radar data, suggests a distant
celestial source. Venus rising may be a possible explanation
since the planet can appear bright, coloured and to flash in
certain conditions.
LIGHTS TO THE NORTH OF MV CONOCOAST
4. stationary red, blue, green and white flashing lights to the
north and 'very high', 40-45 degrees above the horizon. Lights
observed from the MV conocoast between 0246Z and approximately
0600Z (daybreak).
5. These lights were observed from a single location out at sea
in the opposite direction to those at para 2. They would appear
to have originated from an area over the North Sea but again at an
angle well above the horizon. These lights were not the object of
any attention on 5 oct, or subsequently, but remain unexplained.
PERMANENT RADAR ECHOS
6. Generally stationary radar returns, without height or IFF/
SSR, observed on the NATS Claxby radar at 0210Z until 1105Z over
Boston and later on the RAF Waddington ATC radar.
7. These returns were almost certainly from a permanent
geographical feature (St Botolph's church spire in Boston, 273ft)
which were initially observed while attempting to associated an
air track with the.lights; ~ n fact, no aircraft m o v ~ e n t was
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W This church
- stump• and
propagation
associated with lights in the wa·sh or E Anglian area., ·:'
spire is known in aviation , circles as the .. Boston .:r::
appears occasionally on some radars in certain radar
conditions.
. -.... .
8. Conclusion. The prolonged of coloured
flashing lights reported by the Skegness police on 5 oct 9 6 had no "
significance for the integrity of Airspace and no associated
air vehicle was detected by civil or military radars.
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LOOSE MINUTE
D/DA0/1/13
/3 Nov 96
Sec(AS)2a1
Copy to: AOAD1
Reference:. Mr letter to SofS dated 24 Oct 96.
1. At Reference, Mr raises several points
concerning visual and ons which occurred during the
early hours of Saturday 5 Oct 96 and which are referred to,
incorrectly, as 'a visual unidentified flying craft sighting which
was correlated different military radar systems'. The
substance of MriiiiiiiiJs letter is based on various reports which
appeared in the local press, some incorrect,
which I understand were provided to him by t111111111
JIIIIOf the UFO Group. addition, the
1ncludes ser1ous cr1t1c1sm of the Serv1ce, and of the UK A1r
Defence system in particular; for this reason, exceptionally, the
facts surrounding the incident have been established in
considerable detail and set out below, together with resumes of
observations, actions and explanations. A map showing the location
of key agencies, equipment and observations is at Annex A.
SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
2. Initial Observations. At approximately 0205Z on 5 oct 96 a
Skegness police officer on mobile patrol at nearby Addlethorpe
observed stationary multicoloured lights to the east and low in
the sky which he reported to the control room in Skegness. As a
precaution, the control room relayed the sighting to Great
Yarmouth Coastguard Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC),
suspecting it could be related to an incident at sea. The MRCC,
unaware of any maritime activity, asked the Air Rescue
Coordination Centre (ARCC) at RAF Kinless whether they were aware
of any air activity or incident in the wash area. The ARCC had no
knowledge of any such air activity and, in turn, asked the Control
and Reporting Centre {CRC) at RAF Neatishead if any aircraft
activity was present on the radar in that area; Neatishead had no
unidentified radar contact on the air defence radars being used to
provide air surveillance in the area and ARCC subsequently asked
the Distress and Diversion (D&D), located at the London Air
Traffic Control Centre (LATCC) West Drayton {not at RAF Northwood
as the Coastguard erroneously assumed and the press subsequently
reported). The D&D Cell reported a radar plot on the National Air
Traffic Services Claxby radar over Boston to ARCC, thence to MRCC.
At the same time, CRC Neatishead, which had conducted a search on
r
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.,.
all available displays, observed the same plot on the same Claxby
radar in the same position. This information was also relayed to
ARCC thence to MRCC; by now, MRCC had consciously or
subconsciously associated the reports of lights with the Boston
radar return and assumed an investigative and coordination role
for the rest of the night.
3. Actions by Air Defence System. Meanwhile, CRC Neatishead's
inquiries had revealed no sign of air movements or military
exercises in the area and there was no evidence of unidentified
air activity on any radar; the stationary radar plot, without
associated height or IFF/SSR support, therefore, was judged by
experienced operators at both Neatishead and the D&D Cell to be a
permanent echo, and the separate stationary lights as some form of
natural phenomena of no air defence or air concern. It was clear
that no flying craft had penetrated the UKADR or was present on
any radar; furthermore, the unrelated stationary light reports
were not suspicious in nature or of significance to air or
maritime safety, therefore, no recommendation to scramble a Quick
Reaction Alert aircraft from RAF Leuchars to investigate either
the permanent echo or the reported lights was sought.
4. Subsequent Reporting. Updates and further information on
both the plot and lights continued to be sought by MRCC from
several sources on open circuits .. and reported, and sometimes
distorted, in the process. Further interest in the .radar plot was
kept alive at the instigation of the coastguard, leading to the
eventual involvement of several other control agencies including
LATCC(Civil), LATCC{Military), Anglia Radar and Waddington
Approach. Further interest in the lights was maintained by the
coastguard until they disappeared with the dawn, involving a
tanker vessel at sea, Boston and Skegness Police Forces and
LATCC{Civil).
INVESTIGATION OF RADAR PLOT AND VISUAL SIGHTINGS
5. The various observations which occurred in the early hours of
5 Oct 96 and the various phenomenae have been investigated in
considerable detail. The relevant logs maintained by on-duty
Military and Civilian personnel have been studied and, where
possible, key observers and operators, both civil and military,
have been interviewed by telephone.
THE BOSTON PLOT
6. Plot Characteristics. A radar Plot was observed in the
position of Boston, Lines, on the National Air Traffic Services
(NATS) sensor at Claxby, near Market Rasen, when attention was
drawn to the area by Great Yarmouth Coastguard. It was observed
by the D&D Cell from approximately 0225Z and by CRC Neatishead
from 0230Z; both organisations have access to the same radar
display although neither uses that radar on a routine basis for
surveillance or aircraft control in the Wash area. Later, the
plot was observed by Anglia Radar at stanstead, which opened at

\REDACTION ON ORIGINAL DOCUMENT I
0600, again on the Claxby radar display. The radar plot was
always single and stationary and defied attempts to obtain height
or IFF/SSR information on it. Significantly, the plot was never
present on radar displays from the NATS sensors at Cromer and
Debden nor on the air defence radar at Trimmingham; although a
stationary return was detected on the AR15 approach radar at RAF
Waddington at 0749Z, this was inaccurate reporting of a separate
permanent echo. Three aircraft, which transitted the Boston area
at 0710Z, 0830, and 1105, failed to sight any airborne object. A
map showing radar locations and the position of the plot is at
Annex B.
7. Plot Analysis. The characteristics of the plot confirm
beyond reasonable doubt that it was a permanent radar echo, and
the fact that it could only be detected by a single nearby sensor
indicates a relatively low physical feature which, however,
appears as a permanent radar echo only in certain weather
conditions; for example, it was not present on the Claxby radar
on 8 Nov but could be seen on 11 Nov. It is highly probable that
the echo wa