S:ATE

7.

OF WISCONSIN

CI RCJ I;:

COJRT

C:iIPPEWA

CCCI\-:-Y

Bril:1C;' 3
-------------------------------------------------------

3
4

0EFFREY

P. ERRS, Petilior.er, CASE NO. 2JlO FA 11

s
51
7.

vs.

MA?Y

A::J01R3S, E Respondent.

F=~AL

fiI:;l\IUNG/

S 9

HONOl,ABLE CIRCUIT COURT

STEVEN JUJGE,

R. CEAY PRES:JTNG

Monday, Ch~ppewa
:.t--.t.

October

is, 2010
Falls, Wisconsi:1

COJnty

COJrthoJse,

Chippewa

I

;

14 15 JEFFREY person
17 18

APPEARl\t-<CES P. ERBS, the Petitioner, appearing i:1

witr.out cOJnsel.

E'A..'1ELA VF.T'T'H, .1. A:torney Eau Cla~re, Responder:, Wjscons~n 54703,

at Law, appcdr~ng

706

First

l\venlle,

19 20 71
?2

for the

wI,:)appeared

in person.

Repor:ed !

by Connie

G. Dillon,

RMR,

CRR

n:
21]

25

1

I
,".

Ii
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1

INDEX WITNESS J~F:REY P. ERBS by t t:e COL;r:: by Ms. Veith 10 12
PAG2

3 4

Exa:':1inat.:..on

:;
6'

Cross-Examination

7 8 9 lC 11 12

MARY

ANN

ERES Examination ny Ms. by Mr. VeiU: Erhs 13 15

Direct

Cross-Examir.aLior.

.~

13 14
1 5: :6 1
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:7 18 19 20 21 221 73 ::>4 25 ,
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2

THE COURT:

Ms. Veith, wo~1d YOL calL lh~s please.

matt0.r and give the ~ppearances, MS. VEITH: Marriaae of Jeffrey Sure.

3
1 ~

This is In Re the

P. Erbs, Pelitio:ler, a~d ~a~y Ann Case n~mber 1S 10 F -FA 11.

~rbs, Hesponde~t.

6
7 8.

THE COCRT: MS. VEI~H: set for a heari~g. and without ceu~se~.

:ha:lk YO\;. Th is is the lime appears in person in pers()n

The petitioner

9'

Tile respondent

~ppears

Ie
11 12

and with co~nsel

Pa~ela Ve'th. th~t at the last hearing, the

I believe

courl set this ti~e to proceed jurisd~ctional grou~ds

with a hearing o~ :he

-

13 141
I 15~ 16

so the eourt cOllid gr~nt a for further heari~g a

judg~ent of divorce decisio~

and reserve

on their rema1~i~q TEE COURT:

issues. We h~ve a molion

Tha~~ you.

11 18 19 20 21 22 73:
I

~or recusal wllieh I'll deal w~lh, t!le:l the stat~s heari~g. attor~ey's motio~ Third will be the respondent's fees. Then the motion request for

for relief,

then

~or sanctions. Firsl o~ the motion fer relief, ~r. ~rbs, the pleadings

is there anything

you wish to add beyond

that you ii~ed wilh ~he court?
M?

24 25

ER3S:

Yeah.

I would li~e to ask YOL,

Judge, you've taken an oalh lo supporl drld upl:old the

-~~.
3

~-(

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2 3
4

cons~itutior. of tr.e Cnited States of Arr,er~caand not of this state. Is that correct? I've taken an oath to upho~d and the

THE COURT: the constitution

of the State of Wisconsin

United States Constitution.
6
7 8

MR. ERBS: those

Okay.

And then accord~r.g to

that oath, you're required to abide by those of your official duties, court. Is that

oaths ln the performance

WI
11

9, i

including those before this honorable correct? THE COURT: questions. question it.

Sir, you don't ask me Don't

12

I take my oath very seriously. Move on.

13 14 15
16

MR. ERBS:

I'm asking for your recusal

right now, Your Honor, because this is the attitude that you've been giving me the whole time I've been in your court, and I'm asking you these questions because

17 18 19 20

in the course of this action, there have been things done by yourself that are violations of Wisconsin of your oatil, /

statutes and that would be in violation

21 22
23

Judge, and it would also be violating my due process rights and my fairness and any amount of equity that I might be able to get out of this hearing, this trial, and I feel you violated -- I feel it is a violation my due process rights. of

24
25

4

,

/

~

And Septe~ber Lhreatening
3.

8th, i~ your court, you were tor

me with two 30-day jail sen~e~ces Supreme

something

that the Wisconsi~

Cour~ has fou~d of an order fClr

to he, a jail sentence discovery,
6
7

~or v~o~ation

would be a violat~on THE COURT:

of due process.

No, Mr. ~rbs, you are WrO!lg (l:l of cour~.

the Jaw.

Mr. Erhs, you were i~ co~~empt ordered you Lo comply, a~d
YOII

8 9 10 11

Judge Cameron
so.

you fai:ed ~o do

You did so willingly
Mi<. I-:R.iIS:

did so knowi~qly.

-'did not. Yes,
yo~ did,
Sl~,

,H~ COU?'T: found you 1:1conLe~pt court oreers whether

and

so T

12
13

(If (:c)urt. You must obey the you :ike t~em or not. You c)re else

(

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I

going to have to live by the rules that everybody that appears beiore this cour~ must do .

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• :J

So that while you may not like the facL thaL you have to comply witll the orders, 18 19 20 21 22 /3: 24
25.

you are

required to do so and so that that of your riqh~s.
I~ is a violation

15

~o~ a violation

of your wife's

rights when you fail to comply wi:h :he law so :hat I fou~d you in remed~al contempt. You purged your cor:c:emptso you did rtelL have to se=ve the tj~e, but you a~e goi~g required to disclose your assets,

:0

he

your f~nancial ~he situatio~ beyo~d

conditjo~,

and you cannot co~tro:

i

..•

wllat is allowed by the law.
::2

So the fact tha~ YO:1 may no~ like it does not ~ean that I'~ being biased. It just simp~y ~eans

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that I am req~ir~rlg you to live by the same ~u:es that everybody else has to. ~R. ER3S: - ooject to that,
YO. l~ .

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Honor.

THE CO:JRT: We 1 ~ ,
M?

YOJ

may ob~ect to tha t.

8 9 10
II

ER3S:

Because

-goi.:g

THE COClRT: to be.

But ~:--.at the way ills is

You are going to have to live by the ru~es
T ~ • •

.lscons.:..n. that are set by the laws of t~e State of •..... MR. E?BS: And only I have to go by the ~~e responde~t also has

12 13 14
.,
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rules, apparer:tly, because not -THE COURT: MR. E?3S: Sir.

!6

-- done t~eir discove~y.

17 18 19 20
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TH~ COClRT: We're goi~q to qet to that, as

T ind~ca:ed to you earlier, and so that we are goi~g
to be discussing there's
;

later the !act that you believe

t~at

not been co~pli ance wi ~h the discovery here.

by t~le

21 22
?3

respondent

And : am goi~g to hold he~ to the same ~equiremen:s as
YOII,

bl:t two wrongs don't make a

24 25 ,"----\

righ~, sir, and so that the fact that YOJ may not like my decisions does not ~earl I'm biased.

6

,..

\.

1

means

I a~ e~[orcing Now,
YOil

the have

law. -- the first point yo~ raised

2 3
4 in your writ

pleadings mandamus the

was and

that tha: Court

I ~~properly chat nas was

disrr.issed your b~as. your so that

0:

showing

Eowever, 6.
I

Supreme a~d

overruled

arqu~ents that does

on that not You for~

supported ~or the

my decision recusa: letter August here.

a bas~s that

8
9 Veith, biased doing w:th

allege

=

wrote was proof

to v.s. somehow of

a copy

to you,

0:
ner that

30th

10

in that certain because trying

=

required What

to provide was was

acts.

an unbiased to know to if

request

1 needed as hard Mayo

the as

information " felt they

r ..

13

they

were

should

14
15 16 17

adjourn

-- to have They

Clinic

delay

their

decision. iif; I

provicied I was because

thClt proof. go~ng to rule. the fact

Lliit is not In fact, that

indication never Ci~nic does had

of how to rule

0:

Lhe Mayo that

18

agreed not form

to delay a basis

their !or

decision

so that

recusal. request that The yo~ rr.ade :0

20

My denial record docu~ents can was

of

the

21 22
23

appropriate.

accom~odation yo~ say
YOil

yo~ requested have difficulty

be addressed papers, copy

because and

handling

if you

had you

requested

an electron~c have to handle

of the

transcripts, because

7.5
(\

would

no:

tIle papers

it would

7

,!

..

,
1 2 3 4 5 6
7
one --

be on a computer

so that that does not form a basis. I disagree. You may disagree, sir, but my

MR. ERBS: THE COURT: decisions stand -MR. ERBS:

I disagree

because

I'm the

THE COUR~: for debilte.

Excuse me, sir, I'm r.ot asking you, and I'm goir.g th~ough me.

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1

I am telling

ttis, and yo~ are not ~o interrupt MR. ERBS: Your 1I0nor? THE COURT:

So I'm not ill lowed due process,

You are allowed due process, and interrupting me is not

but you have to be polite, being polite.

As I was indicating,

thilt the case law deVIces a

is that tte court can control here.

the recording

I am not going to allow a debate between

';.7

cecordi~q

rev ice that is inferior to a court repor~er

18 19 20 21 22 23
i

ar.d have endless debate over what was said or what was dor.e. The transcripts they are done promptly are received. I note thilt

once you pay the fees wnd so

that I am not seeing where that is a problem because your stated problem already exists. Then you next complained that you were can be accommodated by what

241 25
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searched 2 3 4

enteri~g

the courtroom

prior to t!le prior :Jewever, t'le and so that I

heari~g but the respo~dent respendent was searched

was not.

i~ the courtIoe~

don't find that there was any bias there and so :hat the facts that you allege were i~corrcct. At the heari~g, contempt Wisconsin I ~ound th~t you were failure 'n

~,
6
7 81 9

for your undisputed iaw regardi~g the conte~pt

to comply with The court order I agree with you

discovery. w~s stern.

for purging

Ie
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there, bllt it was fair and lawful. You ~ust comply with Wisconsin inclL:ding the discovery Roth ]~dividually bias on my par:. You certainly can try the patience o~ this statutes law

12
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as I've indicated. there has bee~ no

1 _I " 14 15

and collectively,

:6
17 18' 19 20 21 22 23' 2': 2:'
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court, but T am going to con:i~ue

on with this case.

I am not going to allow you to use this ~s -- by accus:ng each judge as they come into Y:lur case, off so that you can There will be an

tryi~g to <ick everybody i~defi:litely postpone ending to this case. I'n therefore recusal. MR. F:RBS:

this ~at~er.

denyi~g

the motion

for

I'd like to take leave for

appeal now, Your Honor.

9

1 2

THE COURT: proceeding on so thaL Mr. Erbs, Come

You may appeal, next we wil~ yo~ take

bJt we are

00 the status the oach starld. at this

3:
4

,

portion. time?

would

up and take f'(R.ERRS:

t!le wi:~ess

f'(e? Yes. You il:-et!le petitiollec ill

6
I

'!',IE COl:RT: l!lis rna ller.

~EF=REY
9i,

P. ~~3S, testif~ed as ~ollows: sic ~n :ho

being

duly

swor~

upo~

his oath,

TP.E COURT:?lease witness ~2 chair. EXAMINATIOK

COffiearo~nd,

RY

-:'HF. COURT:
Would you staLe your na~c foc the record, please.

:4
15 16
17

Q A

My name What 19080

is Je[~rey home

P. Erbs. address? :alls, Wisco~sill. on October 6,

o
A Q

~s your

- 7lst Ave:lue, Chippewa

18
.19 20

And you and the respo~dent 2003?

were

~arriec

A Q

I lhink That's Yea!l.

so, yeah. what you state ~n your petit~on, is it not?

22 23 24 2')

A

I Lhink

it's the 4th.

Is it the 1:h, f'(il:-Y Ann?

1'hat's what
Q

I thought. is two days off i~ thilt you were 4th, 2003. Is t!lat

So your petitio~ actually

ffiarried on October

10

,

,/.

11
2
1\

correct? Yes. ~ow, prior to fi~ing the petition, State of Wisconsin
1\

3 4, 5 6 7 8, 9 10' 11

Q

did you ~~ve in t~e

for s:x ~ont~s?

Yes. And prior to filing the petit;on, Chippewa County fClr 30 days? had you lived i~

Q

A
Q

Yes. When were the -- when did the two of you s~art living separately?

A

Mary Ann ~oveo o~t on Januury And no c~ildre~

11th of chis yeur. as a result

:i.2 Q
,

have bee~ born or adopted

,

l:J 14 :5 16. 17 A A
Q

of thlS re~ationship? No. You fileej ~he petition
O~

January

12th

of 2010.

Is

chat correct? Tha~ is cOerect. A~d you had the respondent well. A
Q

:i.8 Q 19, 20 1

served o~ January

12th as

Is tha: correct?

That is true. Are you aware of any Ocher legal actions this marriage? affecting

/,
221 23 2~1 2S

A
Q

No~e that I'm party to. Are you active in the ~i1ita~y service of the United

States or the State of Wisconsin?

r\
11

1

A Q
A

No. Are you requesting
No.

2

a change of surname at this time?

31
4
5

Q
A

In your opinion,
1\0.

is the murriage

irretrievably

broken?

6
7

Q

So that you wish to change the petition that?

to indicate

8 9
lD' 11

A

Yes. THE COURT: Then those are the questions I

have of you at ~his ci~e. questions.

~s. Veith, you may ask your

12
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CROSS-~XA~TNATION flYMS. VEITH: Q Mr. Erbs, you indicate that you believe is not i"re~rievably A Q Yes. You understand that your spouse, ~s. ~rbs, be:iev2s broken? it broken. your marriage

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14[ 15 16
17

1s Lt:a~ true-?

18 191 20 21 22 23 21 25 A A Q
A

is irretrievably

That's her decision. And yo~ and Mary Ann are not currently No, we never agreed to do that. You understand in counseling? Yeah, that's her mind-set, MS. VEITH: yeah. cOllnseli~g? to.

I wanted

Q

that she does ~ot wish to par~icipate

That's all I have, Your HOllar.

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--

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'T'EE COURT: down.

Thar.~ you, sir.

You may sLep

;> 3 4,

Ms. Vel~h, wo~1d ycu call ycur client, please. MS. VEITII: Yes, Yo~r Honor, we would Cil~.J

~ilry A:1n Erbs.

:,
6
I

MI\HY ANN ERRS,
being duly swocn ~po~ her Odt~, tcsti:ied TilE COJRT: sit in the witness as fo~~ows:

if you'd please corne around and

8 9 1°1
BY MS.

chaic.

DIRECT EXAv.INATION
Vr:: 'I'H :

Q 12
-,

Would you stilte yo~r ~amc, please. Mary An~ E.os. Miss I::ros, where are YO:l currer.tly r-esidir:g? 301 U~iversity Yo~ are married Yes. Do ycu believe irret~ievably chilt your rr.arriageto Mr. Erbs is bro~e~? ~n Elk Mou~d. to ~ef:rey P. ~ros?

A
Q

13 14 :5 16 17, '8 19 20 ;> ,. 221
I

A Q A Q

A Q

Yes. Do you believe reconcj!~ation Lhere's any chance or hope [o~ even wit~ counseling?

A

1\0.

23 24 25
1

Q
1\

Are you in the militacy
Nc.

Loday?

Q

Wer-e you in the miliLary

a~ the time chis action was

,,

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, 3

1I 2' 3

1
A

commenced?
No.

Q
A

Are you pregnant
1\0.

today?

4
~ 6 7: 8
<)

Q

Do you have any major health of?

issues that you're aware

A

No.

Q
A

Wr.at is your former sUena~c? Well, my prioe ::laer~edna::-.e W2.S ilaas, Ii-A-A-S, ~aiden number, ~-l-H-R. 2.:1d my

10

11 12
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Q

Do you wish to res~me the use of c~thcr of tr.ose
names?

13
11

A Q A

~y ma~den name . And how do you prono~nce F'uhr. flS. VE:TE: have, Your ~onor. :HE CCURT: ~s. ~~bs, you <iled a Does that sound Tr.ose are all the quest'ons
I

it?

. 'I _J,

I

:6
17 18

, 19' 70 21 22'
2:J

cou:1terclaim 0:1 j2.:1uary 20, 201C. coreec: tc YOil? TE~ WITNESS: TH~ COJRT: Elk Mo~nd?
TilF: WT-:'N:::SS:

Yos. And what is the zip code for

24 2~'
(

- ~hi:1~ it's ~4/39,

bu: I'm

not positive.

"
l1

THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

Is that your mailing No. My mailing

uddress? is

adcress

Post Office Box 2196, Eau Claire. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: TEE COUR:: THF: W:TNESS: THS COURT: ques~io~s I have. 2109 -No, 2196. 2196, Eat.; 1 c1 i rc '? C Eau C~aiye, Thar.k you. 54702 .

Those are the of

Mr. Erbs, you may ask quescions

the witnes:::. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ERRS: Q Well, this
lS

it, Mary Ann.

The mnrriage

is

irretrievably A Yes.

broken up to you, huh?

~R. ERBS: THF: COUR:: any other questions? MS. VEITH: THE COURT: As I indiCAted,

Okay, fi~e. C~ay.

That's

:t.

Ms. Veith, do you have

No, Your Hor-or. Thank you. You may sLep down.
IS

this portion

of the hearing alone.

dealing

wiLh the status of the marriage dealing division

It is noL property

wiLh the issues of maintenance, or division of debts.

As to this aspect of ..ne hearing,

.-'

l ':1", goi.ng

15

--

.

. _-------

/0'-

"'

to find 2 mar~ied lived

tha:

the

peLitio:le~ 6, 7C03

and

responde~L The six

were

on October i~ the State prio~ County

(sic). for

petit'oner months action to

3
4

of Wisconsin

immediaLei~. and the C;,ippew2

to ;:;,eCO:TUne:lcemen;: of this ~or 30 d2ys action. has and iurisdiction 'mmediately

p~ior

co~~ence~ent The

o' t~is cocrt

7

therefere

on

8 9' 10

this

ma;:ter.

,he

petitio~0r

respondent were The born wife

separa~ed or adc)pted :s not

on January as a resu:t pregnant

II, 2010. of this

No child~erl reI8tions~ip.

at this

time. we::e i.iled on pet'~io~ day, were ~anuary

12
13 January served

A SUIT_"or:s ar.d peLition 12, 7010. on Lhe ,~0 summons and

respondent.

on :hac

sa~e

12,

15
16

2010. T~e ~anua~y 20, response 2nd co~nterclai~ the were filed was on

201C.

Therefoce, are

counLerclaim legal known. of t~e actio~s Nei=he~ Uni~ed

Lirrely f: ~ed. affecting is i~ the this

There

no other =ha~ are

marriage military

part.y States

acLive

service

or :~e SLate 22
23 There surna~0

o£ Wisco~sir..
sta=\lt.ory waiting pe~iod has expired. ef

The

is a request ;:0 the name

by tl:e responde~L of, is it Fuhr?

for a ch2~ge

24 25
/"

~S. ERBS:

~.chr .

-~

16

I
1 2, 3, 4 5

THE COURT: marriage marriage the parties

F-U-H-R.

That is gran:ed.

-~e t~e

do not agree as to whether broken.

is irretrievably stating

Mr. Erbs originally

petitioned

it was but has c:hanged his mind. has firmly stated, and I the

The respondent, believe marriage

however,

6
7

her when she states thaL ill her opinion, is irretrievably broken. to have a

8
9

Since it takes two parties marriage,

the fact Lhat one of tllem has convinced

me

10

that it is her opinion the marriage broken meets the standards I'm reserving proper:y division required

is irreLrievably for a divorce.

11!
12
l3

the issues of maintenance, at this time. a

and debt division granting

14 15

I'm therefore jJdgment of absolute

t~e parties

c:vorce

at this time.

I need to

inform bo:h of yo~ tha: neither
17

of you may re=arry

wi:hin six mont~s recognized

fro~ Loday's date and ~ave iL

18
19,

by t~e State of Wiscons:n. The next ~atter I have
1S

,
a moL~or tor re1:ef. believe Mr. Erbs, r have in your pleadings that you should receive t~aL feu of

20 21 22 23, 24 25

some relief becaJse the respondent's

the fact that an order requiring previous

counsel to step away from the case is the that you are of the

basis for relief, and you believe entitled to damages

of one hundred percenL

17

assets of the ~arriage M? ER3S:

tj~es tilree. Times three, yeah, limes three, for fraud.

times three, :reele damages TEE COUR~:

I'm ~o: finding any new ~ac~s

or argllmen:s beyond what was found by Judge Cameron. I'm denying the reiief requesLed for fraud.

c

Lnd

tha~ tIle judge de:erm'ned o~ i~propriety, Therefore, but

t~at there was an appearance

=

find no factual basis for fraud. is denied.

thaL request

Your second point in YOllr met ion for relie~
.:..s, in esser.ee, as I rCc.;.d

it

let me get it i~ fronL to ~epo,t

of me -- ar: order regui ring -:; .. ldqe Cameron Attorneys

:.iptak and ~lu1l0r.to the Office of Lawyer

Regulation. As thaL is, in essence, a mot~on fClt

maClc.:amus, or tI".e : same reason that I could r.ot grar:t your previous moL ion for mandamus, one eiLher. I ca~not tell another things. I cannoL grant Lhis circlliL judge ~o do

or not do various

Having served on t~e -- with Lhe Office of Lawyer Regulation undersLanding beiieve on a ~occll co~.~.ittee, T do ~ave so~.e requirements.

as Lo the report'ng

thaL Judge Cameror: ~ust, in his own ~ind, whether he feels there was a violation If he determines of

deter~i~e

the Supreme Co~r: Rules.

that there

18

<.._--

1

is, Le s:JeL;ld. I [ he determi :1es ~Lere should :1ot, and so tLat I'm not go!ng ilniess he feels that l~a: that

~s nol,

he

2 3
4

is IIp :0 n~~. him to reporl things

to order

is approp~iale. for costs to

I:em rumber
6,
I

t:J~~e is a request lo ~old

compel
I

discovery.
I

!'m go~ng
essence, for

off on lilat
thnt.

7

cCJ.use thac.
IS

Sf

lrl

::le

!""lex: thing

:1ave yeL;r

R

w:Jich first

your motior

sanct'ons.

And there,

reqL;est is ~o~ s~ncLior:s aqa~nsl ~or faililre to p~ovjde discovery.

Alt(l~:1ey VeiL!I.

10

TLat's correct?

12 frIvolous

MR. ER3S: motion

~o,

it's

fo~ b~inqirg 8:h.

up tile

on September

TEE
1:,'

C::OUR";": W:JicL w~s her request

:0

compel? V,R. ERRS: debacle
~(), i:

16
;7
I I

was

for

t~at pcns.io:1

wl-.ichwe disc'Jssed,
1

you as;.;.ed :-,e co::-_~:ent : my or becailse 767.225 :.he i:1 can

is
20 21 22i

il.

I said

viewed orders

it as frivolous

19

said the only pendercy

that car be gran led durirg are -- Cd:1 only tllat no property

of the actien

be te~porary division

ratilre, a:1d 767.61 says h~pper u'ltil ~fte~ hold

the d'ssolutier

o~ marriage. certairly s:Jou:d in

lila: Attor:1ey Veith

24 25

have been fam~]y

aware

of this

seei:1gs as she specializes ard th~t

law and f~~ilies

her molior: t(l bri:1g

I'I
7.

this in front of the court was fairly ingenuo~s,

a~d I

deem t~at it's a -- it lacks ca~dor to the tribllnal and it's not a meritorio~s I deem sanctions. claim. anc
aski~g

3

il :rlvoloLs

for

6
7 8 9 10

THE COURT: the motio~ was net ~riv<)lous. situation certain where her e~ployer

I

a~ finding that was
l~

T~e ~espondent

a

was ~equiri~g

her to do
I

things within a certain

time; t~a~ because

did not want to try and n~le on a matter,

'callse I do

11 12
/~

ag~ee with you t~atOs a matter Dest set for a finai hearing on p~ope~ty

division,

and I did no~ want t~e ncr

(

,

1 3;

;

omployer

to set t~e rules for any of t~e par~ies And 1.~atOs tIle reason
I

14
15 16

t.ho court.

set that,
:0

r--:~.

Erhs, because

wanted

the employer

grant JS more

time, which they ended ~p doing. So tllat I disagree frivolous beca~se
I

with yo~ that it

W2S

think ~nder the circllmstan<:es that to got so~e

19 20
21'

the respo~dent

was in, i: was necessary

sort of j~dicial inte~ven:ion, enforcing
lssue.

which did occur, by

a ~equest or extra time :0 dea' with that

7. 3,

3eca~se of the fact that Doth pa~ties appa~ontly discove~y feel that they have not got ton the t;lis action, •

2~
;>5
/"".

that they ~eed to co~p:ete

2C

Ii
2

wanted employer

the

employer

to give

additional that into

time,

which

the

did,

so I'm denying two ten ties times

motion. one 'cause bul I'm

3
4 you're again

Number asking finding for that

number

lile fee

charged,

:,
6' 7

it was asking

not me

frivolous. Attorney I'm denying violated Veith that

You're to the because Court Office

to report

of Lawyer find

Regulation. she has

8
9 10 11' 12

I do not rule. Then

that

a Supreme

I think and

we get you're

to your

motion that 8th.

for you Bolh each nol

contempt, have not

Mr.

Erbs,

indicating from July

received ordered

the

discovery

13 14
15

of you other

were with

by Judge Whal

Cameron discovery

to p~ovide have you

discovery.

received? v'R. ERas: would ~eet the ~ had as:<ed for c~scovery ef 7 -tee vag~e. Saying that that

16,

:7
18
19

req~iremen~s I~'s
1S d

THE CO:JRT:
there's r.ot comp~iance MR. E"BS:

cencl~sioa. law is vague, have do you yeu not

20
21

So lhe

THE COUR':": What
received? What MR. discovery hopefully with I'll bits ERBS: the get

discovery

22 23 24
25

of iaformation 1 filed

aeed?
and

interrogatories attorney, and

respondeat's that.

?l

,
\

1
7

THE COURT: Mk. EkHS:

Some addi~io:lal dJscovery? Yes. Is tha~ correct, Yes. ~s. Vei~h?

3I

,

THE COURT: MS. VEITH: 29th, 2~d we're working THE COJ"'!': te co~ply by October MS. VEITH: provided

4' 5 6
! 8
I

It was served Sep:embec

en the respo~se. Okay. Are YOil goir:q :0 be ab':'e

28:h? I be:ieve so. My clierlt h~s information. form

9' 10 .:. 11 12 13 14'
I

~e with the -- her preliminary

It's just a maLLer of puLL'ng before we provide

it i~:o Lhe proper

i: to Mr. Frbs. And so Lhat the discovery that

THF COURT: you wlsh an3wered

or ;s there someth~ng

else ~rom ~Jly

8th that. specifically

hasn't bee~ provided? =t's ki~d ef a st'cky wic~et,

15 16
I ~7'

r-:R.

EHHS:

Your ~oner, oec2ilse

the respondent

has a share of a COilnty,

lease on :320 acres of land in Camphel' Wyoming. TEE COUR~: MR. ERRS: Is that the Yes, i:
lS.
0'.

18 19 20

~~d gas rights?

,

And t:lere is --

2l! 22 23 24 25
..

there have hee~ two d~ffere~:

oil sha:e formatio~s

!ound there, and Lhey're te be very, very produc~ive. One is called the N!obcara, and the other is called

the Mowry, ~~d it's in the ?owder River Hasi~ where that property :ease is, and that'll have tCl be --

~
\

22

r
3
4
I 9

that's a~ asset. T~atOs gOI~g to have Lo be -- co~c IIpwith sorr.e kind of a pr~ce for tr.at, and that's kind of a

sticky wicket because wha~ they ~ay offer ~or discovery may net be wr.at needs :0 be done fer tha~, se~t notice ~o Attorney maybe ~ave Veitl: ~r.at I

and I've already would r.ave :0 accountant me wit~

:0

hire a :orensic

to fig~re that out if :r.e data thoy p~ovlde number
011

!s~Ot cnougr. to ge~ an acc~:ate worth.

what

1 :) ~l

that asset ~s actually

T~E COURT:
tr.at evalda:ing

I agree with you, ~~. Erbs,

12
1 3~

::hose oil riqr.:s ~s very dif:icul:.; who knows

~hat I wisr. 1 could refer you to somebody how to do evaluations suggestion, perhaps ~R. E?8S: l~ke t~at.

It would ee my

-- was it In Ckla~oma? Wyoming, Campbell County,

17
l8

Wyoming. TEE (aUk!: Ckay.

19
20;

MS. VI::I!i-I: Your Eono~, jus: sc tr.e court is aware, :his -- my client hds ~igr.:s tc receive a portion of the ~nco~e that :he lease -- - believe l.haL's doing the d~i!lir.g. fi~st it's

, 211
I

22' 23

the company actually

She does~'t

own the property,

0:

all; and secona of fro", he~

24
25

all, it was leases tr.at she inherited

father's estate so it's inhe~iteG property.

23

1

.

2

r
Number two, can one
;

THE

COCRT:

So thal

l~lere's lwe asset; the

:ayers. a~d ~~~ber th~ng over that er have use 'n I

is whether it.

it's a mar:tal Mr. Erbs, abo~t so~e I got

3

te evaluate suggest

only

is perhcps

call~ng

alloc~eys

:1
6
7,

I

Wyomir.q,

'in t;lat areil, 'cause are a!fected

::0 be:ieve
lhat sec who own

ot.her divorces legal

by people and

,

~rl::eres::in ::hat property

they

81 9

tor an exper::. General~y infoc~ation thal, and attorneys w~ll sllare thal ~ind ef a!

:.c

wi::h YOII, as to who I wo~ld suggest who

is a good follow you tel.

eva:uiltor up on that

111
12
•..

that. you to guide have

because!

rlon't ~now
NC{.

:3 1~1

E?BS:

I don'l

per~ission

to

evalu~te

her asseLS.
T:-JE COU~T:

15

1

We~l, you've
it.

asked

for

it,

16
: 7'

you'ce

gOI~g

to get
ERBS:

MR.

O~ay.

n'.ank you.

18 19 20 wnilt's geod geose.

THF. COCRT: fer the

'Cat.:sc

t~atls,

ike

=

said, fOe lhe

gander

is ge~ng

to be good

/' I'
22 23 24 25 would like

"1R. E?BS:
the

Tt:at's where

I'rr. at, that

too,

but

I in

cOUct. to ~nders:and a month, for and okay,

~uly,

I was

Roc~les::e~ for and also

for ~y disabi:~ty weeks I had you a

lssues,

il<ter that proble~,

sevecal

respicatery

I'm rIot kidding

when

I

.---.- ..
/'4

said I didn't have Lime, - did no~ ~ave time. ;> 3 weekends, 5
6'
'I

I was

not bei~g rude.

I d]c not navo time. I was a: home on tr.e I was down

I was lr. Roc~oster. buL I was mostly

recouping. program

there ror a pair. management until August

:rom Juiy 13t~

the 6th or 7th, a~d T had some issues and

I sLill do, okay?

8 9

THE
MR.

COURT:
SHBS:

That's

~ine. work a~d get

And ~ 'm willir.g

10

~his all s:raigr.tened out, geL it behind us ~:lst as mach as ar.ybody, bu~ it has La come from I'oth sides.

1:
:2
13
,.

TJ:F. COUR':':

A~d Lr.a:'s whaL I'm tryir.g cr.a~ both sides

:0

tell you is I'm going to require coopoccte, marita:
I

11
, C

and w~etr.er or r.ot it's determir.ed to be a

_ :J

asseL, it wi 11 be evalua~ed. I war.: ~o

~~I
19 28 21; 22 23

I

have to ~o:~ow throagr. o~ tha:, but again,

qlve you some sorL of idea as to r.ow I would do it so you can Lake that into accou~t. I've had :0 evaluate I always oil ~jgh:s before, ar.d

found iL to be a pair" quite [rar,kly, buL I
If you ~eoc

wan: you :0 be diliger.: on Lhat. disc:osures,

I'm going Lo require Lhat that 'I'r.at's ::nly fair.

ir.!orma:ion be disclosed.

MR.
25

'"RflS: ~hank you.
'four !Io:lor, 1 wou':"ci note, as

f'S. VEITH:

25

L

II
1 2 3

part o~ the discovery, ba~~

we have provided

to ~r. ~rbs

in ~~ly, t~is is the discovery

~~at we provided my clie~t

~o him, we i~cluded all of the in~ormaL~on ~as on the leases. So she doesn'~

~ave any 2clditional

5'

information. I Lhi~k frc~ my read~ng of Lhe discovery, ~~. Erbs wa~ted lIS to have Lhe ~eases appraIsed, we're oDvio~sly d.:..scovery. TfiE COURT: I agree with that. Ir yo~ wan~. not req~ired a~d

6
7

8 9

to do that as parL of

1]

:t a9praised,
~lk.

tha~'s goi~g to be on yo~r di~e.
EkBS:

12

It's an asseL. Sir, yes,
b~: as

THF. COCRT:
14 decermini~g sl.de
16 17 18 19

far

2S

its value, thal is some~~inq

thaL eac~1 it.

yo~'re ~ot en:iL~ed

to have ~er evaluate

That is you~ responsib~:ity, co~sidered responde~t valuation as an asseL,

if you wish ~o have it but t~e

Lo Ilave a~ appraisal,

is also going Lo have to have some sort of o~ :L. Are there allY o~her d~scovery issues, ~r.

20
21

F.rbs, that we shou~d ~a:k abo:lt?

22 23' personal

~R. ERBS:
property

=

had hired Jim Severson

to do

appra~sa's,

and ~e has not bee~ residence ::~er.,. to look

!
21,

allowed

to access the responde~t's possessions

25
.'

a~ personal

and appraise

~-~ . 26

~H:: COU"T:
Veith? ~S. V~ITH:

Where are we a: w'th Lhat, Ms.

Your Honor, my client currertly have that

resides wiLh he~ daugr.:.er,dna sr.e doesn'L many items of personal p~oper:y

in her possessior. I

When she ILft the residence,

she ~ook her ciothi!lg. and some --

t!link she has tW(1 sets of silverwa~e MS. E"BS: Jc:f. Tr.e dia~ond

ring I had fro~

MS. V~:I:H: So it was her wedding he~ vehic~e. of personal Scversor. She's taken evc~ythinq property He's vi.ewed

ring a:lj

she has in Lerms to Mr.

'n r.er possession

it, and it's our unde~standing

r.as included

in his report.. received ~~. Severson's report, Lo

I haven't

so lo require ~r. Seversor appraise ~bc very :ew

:0 travel to D~nn Co~nty
S~le has, inc:lld~ng

i~ems that

Llle two silver sets, one was a gift, inr.erited by r.or from her motr.er -- her g~and~otr.er. So Mr. Severson r.as in her possession set that was received r.as seen the items :ha:. she of a silver tr.~: she Agai~,

wiLh the excepl:on

fro~ hcr grandmother

i:lterlds to give -- pass down to her dacghters. it was -TIE COJ?T:

It Sllould be shown Lo ~r.

27

(

"

1

Severson. MS. VSITH: arrangements She'll have to make to see it. T~at's th~

;I 3
4

for Mr. Severson

only thing he hasn't seen that's in tIer possession. THE COURT: next three weeks. T want that to occur in the

7 8 9

MS. VEITH: THE COURT: discovery, Mr. Erbs? MR. ERBS:

Sure. Anything else for your

10

WeT 1, Your Honor,

I'll just -- T

don't want -- I just say r'll wait. until J get her

12
13

list of her personal through

items and then we'll have to go

it and sort this -- sort this whole thing out, really no reason for me to bring up

14
15. 16
17

okay, so there's anything

else r~ght now about. that. T:JE COURT: I want to make sure c'm

addressing

al: ~~e issues yo~ ~ave coday. MR. ERaS:

- unde~stand tr.at.

A~l I'm
She ~as to

saying is I have to get a list from her. get a :is: from reo Mr. Severson

was at the home [or

21
22 23

a number of hours ar.d wen: around and cid his appraisal
11

nfeetered,

basically,

and we'll just have

to see what prices he comes up and what he lists and everything isn't it? else. That's what it comes down to then,

24
25

1

~H:: COU"T:

=t wOJldn't

sl!ock me if we have

to come bac~ again, but ! jJst wa~t to ~ake SJ~e that 3
4

I'~ doing what I ca~ I.oday. We may well have to have more hearings, I don' t k~ow, bul -Well, I'd prefer not te, b~t I'm

~R. F"rS: sure we probably
7

will have lo, also. BJt I've addressed the

TP.F. COUKe: discovery

8 9'

issJes you have for loday. ER. ~RBS: Yes, si~.

Is thal rig~lt'?

10 discovery
12

~H~: COU"T:Okay.

Ms. Veit~, are t!le~e any

issues lhat yo~ wish to raise at this t~~e?

~s.

V~ITH:

No, Your Eonor. I'm jus~ reading something by

TEI:: COURT: 14 ~r. ~rbs, ceaes ~oday's through well.
17

Std~P, so ~'m going to gla~ce

t~is to ma~e SJ~e : am deali~g with this as

!~e first ~wo pages appear to be dealing with Mr. Erbs's finding of co~te~p~ rela~io~ to his fail~re 1.0 disclose p2y~.ents. Er. Erbs cites L~e fact t~2t tha~ ca~~ot be assigned, a~d ~r. 2rbs, yo~ are ~issi~g the poi~t. but by this COJ~t in his disability

18

19
70 21 22

The point is not whe~her 74 25
I

or ~ot it can be assig~ed

the fact that it needs to be disclosed, asset o[ the ~dritdl

and t~at is an

estate a~d so thal : am ~eq:lir~ng

- -----

\

29

1

you

to disclose I'm

it. not are necessarily Lwo different reqciri~g things. you Yes, to ass"9n Mr.

3 4

it, but

t~ose

F.rbs?

~R. F'<RS: ?ardon
versus 7 Leigh~on, Wiscor.sin,

~n,

Your

Honor. ~s earned the

be cons;dered

'ncoIT.G is not

a~ asset

to be divieec

betwee~

8

part.:..es.
THE I: ~as to be
C1nc so

COCRT:

BuL

you're t~at
O~ net.

mIssing

Lhe point. t'lat you

~evealed,anc thal wLet.her

is ar. asset
j

11 12 13 A
I

have, ~ust th.s

t

C<1:1

be dividcci, I irlller'ted it's not but tha~

like

l~e

respor.dent f she Qnd

is say~nq

well, t~en

stuf~,

and:

ir.her:Led

it,

ITQrita~ propcrcy

can't. be divided

eiLhe~,

1.5 16 17

doesn't
w~at

mea~ tha~ s~e does~'~ ~ave to disc:lc)se to you
intor~ation sc~ficicnt c~~ so yeu can iL

i: is and

evalua:e

it so the~

arguments asset

be made

whether

is goir.g tel he a mar~tal 19 20 concepts. concept those ~ou~d T~ere's O~e

or not. between Lhose two

a difference

~s it heing ~t's

divided,

ar.d the ane that

second of
T

21
22

is whether Lhings YO:.1 are

e'scoverable, so t~at YO:.1

both

discoverable because you

~s why

in cor.Lempt it, ~ot MR. t~at

will.:"u~~y failed to assign ~t. legal

to

disclose 2~! ~I

failed

SRBS:

It car.'t he used

in any

30

1

p:ocess,

Yo~r Honor, Lllen why Sllou1d iL Ilave to be ex

2;

dec~areci? THE CO~RT: you're aski~q Because I have tel determi~e I have to ~~derstand

3 4

tor ~aintena~ce.

whaL your :ncome is.

:1
7

MR. SRHS: TH~: CO~RT:

ThaL's-Sir, you're Lalking about case b~t ~t ~s parL of

81
9

iaw tha: says iL can't. be assig~ed, your i:lcome.

I have to ~ake a iook at ~he assets :~at

lCI
I

each par::y ~as ava ilable Lo :r.em to cie:errr,~ne w~e:.hc, or not ma~nt.erlanceis appropriaLe and so yo~r income

11

:2
~

is you r income, a~d if YO',J wa~:. and need funds, T he; 0 V
1

13
"

::0 ur.derstand W~2t your -- what yo~r ab~~jty mai~ta~n your own lifestyle MR. SRBS:
is.

to

c4
1 ~, 16
• 7'

~I

I've already disclosed

what

I

get per ~o:lth to Pamela Veich . TEE COUR:: i~formatio~ S:le rad financiill disclosure and you ~ad refused to sign

~ 81
19

she required

it, a:ld ;'m not goi~g Lo put up with tho: arId so L~il: ~s why T made my [illd'~g. pleading here. Paragraph :lir:c deals with Lhe a11egatio~s atLorneys, and J'll contlr.~e on witr yo~r

2CI 21: 22

,
73 74 25
~ .. -.

LIla: there was fraud by the previous again,

I have no i:lformat~or.t.O indical.e that a fraud so I'm not deali~g wiLh that.

occurred

31

P~r~qr~ph

eleven agai~ de~ls wjl~ the in AugL:s:. Again, as I've

2
3:I
i

let:er

I

sent out on

indica led, tr.at was ~ot ~n:or~a:ion ~ssistinq

r was requesting
It

4

so I co~ld maKe a decision.

w~s no:

tr.o ~osponde"t

nor was it sr.ow'ng bias.

That is my r:ll~~g en :hat.
7'

Paraq~aph

:weive

I believe

deals wit~ my

8 9 1:1, ~l

Courts r.ave to fi~d, wr.e~ they rule or, sometr.ing such as a m~nda~us, it a~d tr.el: de~_ermi ne whet~er ll,ey have to consider

7:r.ey hilve ~'.l~isdic:., Ion. of :,~e

Tr.ilt is one of the responsibilities cou~t. :hat :~e facl l~at I censide~ed not r.ave jur~sdiction

12

i: and then [o.lnd meun t~at the
T

1 did

doesn1t

cO.lld se~ehow dec~de before

I even co~sidered

15

matte~ whet,l,eror ~ot lhere was i.lrisdiocic)nso tha~ paragraph twelve is a bit of a circillilra~g.lmenl. P~r~graph ll,i~tee~ deals witl, ~e2sonable i~dicatod Y0L:

:7

accolc',oda ~ior.s. Agai~, V-r. Erbs, yeu've 19 20 have di:ficL:lty r.andl~ng papers. try an elec:ro~ic reasonable

suggested

~r.d: yo~
IS

[or::lat, a~d :hal, r believe,

a

21
22

accommodat~o~.
MR. ERBS: YOiJr EoIl.oy,

I'm

::he one

wi~h

t:ie

disabiliLy, 24 2S comp~ter,

<lnd :he~e a,e days when I can't si: a~ l~e

a~d there arc days I cannot r.old paper That's wr.y I asked :o~ lha~.

::l~:erialto read.

32

c'
l'

i

I had no idea ~~at you (:ollid put o~ did put -- I'm used to looking ar ~hose :ittle thirree~ ~achines, transcript computer. not l.hc laptop. ~ey

2

3

I had ~o idea that it was a

'Jr. the Cll U'.at I'd have to read on the That's w~at I'm saying. THF. COCR!: O~ay. Wel~, if you have -- if

6
7

yo~ get a state~e~t u~aDle to operate ~eco~sider

f~(l~ a doctor saying that you a~c then I will

8 9

a laptop computer,

the motion. ~R. E?BS:

lC

:
hearsay,

Your ~cnor, that would be
1

11

wo~ld:I't it be?

have to tell t!,e doctor

12
13

that ~eeds ~o tell you?
'i~1:: COURT:

Agilin, if ~here's

sufficiop.t I will

i~dicia that 't is i~deed coming from accept it. What!

a docto~,
l~

uS~illly require is tha~

be o~

the letterhead i7 18 19
20,

and beilr the sig~atJre.

I ca~ ge:lerally tell a letter [~om a doctor so that ~hat wOJld be an exception u~der the ge~eral exception w~ich to rhe '1earsay r':le is where there's where t!le court can

s~fficie:lt indicia of ~eliability rely on it. Then t~e next document opposition motion to Pam Veit~'s

21 22 23 24 25

is yo~r brief i~ to

brief in opposition

for recusal.

MR. ~RBS:

I thj~k we already

c(lvered that.

33

_.-

-----

._-

-"--'-'--

--

11 21
3

TilE COURT:

Okay.

Mr. Erbs, are there a~y

other issues that you wish to bring to the court's attention today? MR. ER2S: TH~ COURT: else? MS. VEiTH: No, Your Hono~. I don't know i~ you wallt to If you do, time to Not that I can think ef offhar.d. Thank you. Ms. Veith, anything

41
Si,
i

61

:1
91
prepare please

TH~ COURT: a partial

judgment at this time.

1°1
11 17
1

send ~t to Mr. Erbs, give him a week's

review it to see if he agrees with the word~ng. Doesn't mean that you necessarily conclusions acc~rately agree with the or not it

13
.

I've reached but whether reflects the rulings

,.

14 1

I have made .

p,l I
1~

Thank you both. MS. VEITH:

We stand adjo~rr.ed.

'fhank you, Your Honor. concluded.)
)

nI
]8

(The proceedings

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191

2°1
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23
1

~4'

:51
34 ,--

STATE COUKTY 3

OF WISCONS=N ) ss. OF EAU 2LATRE)

1, Co~n:e G. C~~lo~, O:ficia~ CourL Repo~ter certJ:Y correct in a~d for t~e SLate o~ Wisconsin, t~a: L~e foregoing a~d complete :ranscript dc hereby

is a tr~c, in

trar.sc~~pt of t~e proceedings

t~e foregcir:g ma:Ler to Lhe best of ~Y know1edqe. 10 Dated this

L1!:"day of6~,

2C10.

15

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