You are on page 1of 27


(NEIT-542) Interview with MG CLYDE VAUGHN Interviewer: Stephen J. Lofgren US Army Center of Military History Interview Date: 12 February 2002




234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 2.34-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW [BEGIN SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE.] Mr. Lofgren: This is Steve Lofgren of the US Army I am conducting an oral


Center of Military History.

history interview with General Clyde Vaughn.

Today's date

is 12 February 2002, and the subject of the interview is the terrorist attack on the Pentagon on 11 September 2001. Sir, if you could tell me your full name, and position for the record? MG VAUGHN: Full name is Clyde A. Vaughn. I am the

Deputy Director of Operations, Readiness and Mobilization and also the Deputy Director of Military Support for DOD within the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army. Mr. Lofgren: voluntarily, sir? MG VAUGHN: Absolutely. Great. Could you briefly describe what And you are conducting this interview

Mr. Lofgren:

your position entails, the responsibilities and -MG VAUGHN: My position as the deputy to the director

is pretty much the same responsibilities as the second man in the directorate. Obviously this is current ops. This

is current operations for the Army, so in many instances we run -- well, in all instances, we run 24-hour-a-day 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




operations, and as far as a portfolio that's kept separate from the director, we don't do that. There are a couple

of areas that we probably each concentrate a little heavier on, but basically I've got to be able to step in for him and be his second in almost everything he does. So the responsibilities are the same as he has, and that is providing the right kind of leadership over all the divisions within the directorate to encompass everything

from operations and mobilization, the CAP, the watch for the Army, the directorate of military support, everything that the Army touches in current operations. Mr. Lofgren: Okay. Would you describe what you were

doing Tuesday morning, just sort of start with getting to work -MG VAUGHN: Very interesting. During that time

frame, we always start with a morning brief-off, that's called an O&I, and we traditionally get in here somewhere around 0530 in the morning. The first brief normally goes

through General Chiarelli and myself, and then we'll take that brief upstairs to the DSCOPS of the Army, usually carried up there at either 6:30 or 7:00, depending on their schedule, and then normally we would go on from 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW there to the Chief of Staff of the Army if he was available and wanted the briefing that day, and then the briefing team would go on to SECARMY if he required the


briefing. So that day, undoubtedly just like all the other days, started with a briefing down here early, from probably a ten or 12 man organization that we normally have it every day. Now, after that, and I would have to go back and look and see what my schedule consisted of, but I usually sign out the force protection message out to the field, and then I was scheduled -- the piece that I do know - - d o remember quite vividly, is I was scheduled to sit in on the Reserve Forces Policy Board meeting for General Kensinger at the Army-Navy Country Club, and so sometime after the morning brief, I left here and went to the ArmyNavy Country Club. I would say probably I arrived out there around 0800, and sat in on the opening sessions and the opening remarks. We were waiting at that time I think for Mr.

Brown to show up and the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Manpower Reserve Affairs. We were waiting for him to

show up and deliver his remarks, and General Davis, Lt. 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW Gen. Davis, the Chief of the National Guard Bureau, came in the back of the room and motioned for myself and Lt. General Schultz to come out in the lobby. So, I went


outside with him and he gave us the information then, the breaking news was that the towers, and I don't remember whether it was one tower or both, but I think at that time it was both, had been hit by an airplane or by airplanes. And so I called in here to talk to my exec who was at that time Lt. Col. Jerry Ketcham, and he told me that General Chiarelli had already gone to the CAT floor, the CAT was being stood up, and I told him that I would be there quickly. So, from that point I just picked up my

materials and went outside and got in the vehicle, and drove down Glebe Road for 395. and was listening to the radio. I turned to go 395 north At that time, of course,

they had it on about the towers being struck and I remember thinking then that I was probably driving towards a target. If -- and, you know, it was pretty obvious that

it was a terrorist incident because I do remember either earlier or at the time I turned on the radio that both towers had been struck, so it was definitely a terrorist action. 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




I remember very vividly there wasn't anything in the sky, and again, thinking about as I came up 395 and over the top of the hill, you know, somewhere down in there you think about what a target the Capitol would be. You know, So,

that's kind of what you think when you come up 395. as I was going north on 395, I remember seeing an

airplane, a liner, that to me it seemed a little bit out of, you know, out of sorts. It was - there was only one

aircraft in the sky that I could see, and I didn't -- I didn't, of course, didn't hear anything else. And that

aircraft from where I was coming up 395 at that time appeared to be in a straight line up over maybe the Georgetown area or something like that, and I watched it kind of bank slowly and head west, and then you're kind of down in a deflade area coming up 395, you can't see back to the left or the right. To jump ahead, I've always

wondered it that was the plane that circled and come back around, and I've read different accounts that say that particular plane had actually done some kind of a right bank, and came on back and hit the Pentagon. But the one

I saw was headed west and was not in a normal traffic pattern, and maybe, I don't know, maybe two or three 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW thousand feet high and kind of lumbering just a little


But as I came up 395, I got to the top of the hill where from that point you had a real good view of the Pentagon and the city, ane for those who have come up 395 you know exactly what I'm talking about, it's right on the top. And right as I got to the top of that hill, the

hijacked airliner was out my left window, and there weren't very many people that were on the top of the hill. The highway was full of cars and vehicles, and so it was slow traffic, but the airliner -- you know, and it would be very hard, and I said I've never been able to pinpoint even driving in in the mornings exactly where that plane was, but it was probably, I mean it was very low, and it probably had to be in close proximity or over the top of the Navy Annex. It may have been even over Columbia Pike, but very, very close, very low, and there was no doubt instantly what was going on, because it was -- it must have just barely missed the Sheraton and the landing gears was up, I mean, there was no doubt it was on a -- that it was -- if anything, it was accelerating, and it was on a collision 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE. . N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW course, it was aimed for the Pentagon. question at all. And I saw it, of course, you know, traffic had come to I mean a slammin' stop right then, even before it hit the Pentagon.

8 There was just no

I mean it slowed -- and from where I was I

had probably as good a vantage point as you could have on 395, and it appeared that it may hit short, I mean it was so close, and there's actually -- your vantage point at some point as you come off the hill you're somewhat in a deflade there, your view gets a little obstructed by I There's a

think 29 where it turns and goes under 395.

little ramp in there, or an underpass, but I saw it track all the way in to the Pentagon and if I lost it at all it had to be just there -- but it happened so quick, as it closed on the Pentagon in the last couple of hundred feet, you know, and the resulting ball of flame and everything, and I'm just -- I'm not actually sure that I saw it hit the Pentagon thinking back. But, you know, it's -- I'd almost have to get out in the middle of traffic, stop, and just see whether I can see that or not. But I saw it all the way in and if I

lost it at all it was just in the last split second before 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




it hit.
From there I don't know. We may have, you know,

during that time we may have moved a hundred foot and traffic was stopped, and I had trouble -- of all times I have had trouble with a particular brand of cellular phone that they had given General Chiarelli and I probably that week, and so we were trading out cellular phones and I didn't have my phone with me. And so there we were, and

of course now -- and right -- there's people, you know, that are in disbelief, you know, all over. There was a young lady in a car next door to me, it was a hot day, and windows were down, and she was on her cell phone and so I yelled at her to see if I could borrow her cell phone real quick, and I called in here to AOC, into this office, and talked to a Major George Sterling at that time, and my first question I asked him, I said "George, are you all right?" and he said "yeah", I think he said that Jerry, my exec, had already gone into the CAT and they were all in the CAT, opening the CAT up, and I said "You know that you've been hit by an airplane", and I think he said "Is that what happened?" Because, you know,

there's many, many, many people that didn't find out for 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




some time it was an airplane. He said everybody down here was okay, and they were headed for the CAT. So I told him to tell General

Chiarelli I was on top of the hill and I would be there as quickly as I could get in. So, I gave that cell phone back and by this time traffic had moved down the hill maybe another hundred yards or so, and so I pulled up and then there was a big traffic jam again, and I looked back in my rearview mirror, I was in a green Explorer, and I saw a policeman with his sirens going back, oh, back behind me a couple of hundred yards, and of course, traffic is stopped and stacked up, so I got out on 395, I pulled my vehicle as far over to the side as I could, and I got out and directed traffic over to the side until the policeman could come off the top of the hill. I guess what's interesting about that, that is the policeman that hit the intersection first down there, that directed all the traffic for some time, and as we opened that lane up and he came by and I remember him on the speaker phone telling me thanks, and I fell in -- I jumped, my vehicle was still running, I jumped in behind
234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




him, put the flashers on, and he and I went right through the traffic all the way down underneath the underpass, to the intersection where, if you would come out of the south parking lot like -- whether it's 27 or 29 -- I believe it's 27, I've been saying 29, but I believe it's 27, the one that goes down the west side of the building, right in front of the helicopter pad where the plane went in. We came off the hill, I followed him all the way down to that intersection, he pulled his car up real quick, and got out, and I pulled up right behind him and told him that I was, you know, that I need to park that car in there and I'd be going into the building. And so, he

said, "Yes, just pull off on the grass right behind that barricade." So in many pictures for the next 24 hours

there's a green Explorer sitting there on that corner where all the emergency vehicles and everything were. I

pulled up as close as I could to the retainer there on the grass, and by that time he was moving traffic on down from the Pentagon, When I got out there on that corner, I remembered seeing General Mahan, and now when I was kind of thinking, you know, I was looking at where the plane hit and I was 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




also kind of noticing, you know, who I'd seen that I knew, especially general officers. So Mahan -- I saw General

Mahan, I headed on down, walking and running down the road and there were people -- and I remembered when the plane went in to hit the Pentagon one of the offices that I knew was right close to that, to the heliport, was General Glenn Webster's, Fuzzy Webster's. I remember thinking,

that his office had to be hit, because I'd been in his office several times, and I knew the heliport was real close in there right out that window. So I was real-- you

know, I thought, boy that had to hit Training, which is underneath the DCSOPS. So, as I came on down -- now on foot--as I came down the road that's when I saw all kinds of people being helped. You know, that's where we talk about the number

of real heroes that there were, they were helping people, you know, comforting them and taking care of them, and there were some grossly burned people. But they all had

people all over them, and I saw Glenn Webster out on the grass over an individual then, so I knew he was okay. at -- of course, you know, it just happened, I don't really know how long it -- it just seems like a couple of 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005 And


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW minutes to get off the top of the hill, but it may have been, you know, as much as ten minutes. I don't have any idea whether it was five or ten.


Simply to, you know, make a call from the top of the hill, to pull down, stop, you know, get the policeman down the hill, pull in behind him took probably ten minutes. wasn't any, obviously there wasn't any firefighting equipment or anything yet, everything was -- it was really going. flame. I mean, the building was engulfed in a big ball of And a lot of heroes out there on that grass. And There

I often I wondered about the people who came out that way, because that's where the fire was, and that's where the airplane went in, but there were people that came out of entrances and went out the direction of the fire, were out there in a hurry, and with all the seriously hurt people out on that side of the building. And so I went around the building, and of course, especially after the towers, I thought "Boy, this is kind of weird. Here we are going into the building." You

know, the towers had been just hit by a couple of planes, and I wondered if there's, like a lot of people, you wonder if there's another one coming. 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW But I went around the building, and came in a back door. I went to the Mall entrance, they had the Mall They weren't allowing anyone in -There were people


entrance shut down.

they were allowing people to leave.

leaving the building, and they weren't allowing anybody to come into the building. trying to get in there. I went on around to where I knew, where I was fairly sure some side-doors would be open on the Pentagon, and back between, as you round the building between the Mall and the River entrance, there's a side door there, which you take the steps down, and it was open between the 7th and 8th corridor. And I came in that way and came on down I went in to the AOC and, of So I didn't waste any effort

here to the OPS center.

course, the CAT was stood up and told General Chiarelli I was there, and what I'd seen happen, and accounted for a couple of the general officers that I'd seen up to that point, and then of course, we started from there. The

first big task, obviously, was to get a count on how many people were missing on the Army staff. charged off in that direction. And so we were

He told me he really

wanted me to concentrate on that piece, it's the most 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW critical, you know, piece of it. So, I got ahold of Major Matt Haider and we organized, what we had to do, how we would count the [Note: not clear here] section and we went to work. announced it on the CAT floor to, you know, for each I


section now to start that process of figuring out who was missing and who was not, and what their impressions were of all that. Somewhere along the line I was into the OPs Center, or into the Army watch, the watch is separate, you know, that goes all the time, twenty-four watch with watch officers, and it's got all the COMs for the senior leadership and it hooks us up with the rest of the world. I went in there to check in from time to time, and I think, I either -- I don't remember whether I had Glenn Webster's number or he called in on his cell phone. He

may have borrowed somebody's cell phone and called in to the watch, and I took the call. I told him I had seen

him, I knew he was okay, and told him where to come and I'd get him into the CAT, and then we went out the back door a little later and met him and brought him on into

the CAT.
234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




Then, we were in CAT operations for I don't know how many consecutive days. General Chiarelli had the -- I

think I went home the first night, I don't know, 1:30 or 2:00 o'clock. General Kensinger, who was in the office

where our two DCSOPS personnel were killed, I remember everything that he had in there had disappeared, and so he didn't have keys to the car or anything else, and so he lives at Belvoir and I took him home that night. He and I

walked out, I don't know, maybe 1:00 or 1:30 in the morning to go home for a few hours and get some clothes on, and get back in here and try to get, and continue. But we went out, and of course, my vehicle was still out where we left it, and there were firemen and emergency workers and everybody else spread out, you know, all over that piece of terrain, so probably my vehicle was the last civilian vehicle left up there. Then we came back. I don't know when we came back the next day. We divided up and General Chiarelli took the

days and I took the nights for some, I don't know, 38 or 440 days, you know, in a row until we started on some kind of a shift section and we got some other GOs. We had some

-- obviously we had a lot of officers that didn't have 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




offices because of the smoke and water damage or it was gone completely, so several of those general officers threw in and helped us early on, especially during the day shift when we had to get all the briefings together and what not, or Hardy and Eikenberry, Webster, were all in here. I worked the night shift for, I don't know, probably some 40 days, and then we finally got down to where we had a couple of other general officers help us and we could get back to some kind of a schedule. Mr. Lofgren: stood up? Okay. How much of the CAT was already

I know that General Corelli had an exercise

planned for a couple of days later. MG VAUGHN: Yeah. There were representatives at that

time, I think probably from all the Staff, and that was really -- I don't know how deep that was in terms of one or two shifts, and that CAT, because we go through a series of exercises and continual identification, and you pull on the rest of the staff to stand up to CAT. Because

we had been doing that I think the right people assembled real quickly. They knew exactly where to go to, and the

CAT was, by the time I got here, I think people had 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, B.C. 20005




automatically reported to it down here, and it appeared to have someone in every seat, and like I said earlier, I think, and actually there were a number of other people, high-ranking officers that are looking for what's going on, and don't really have any other place to go and work. They weren't going to leave the building, so they went to the ops site, which is the hub for any crisis. So, it appeared that the full CAT was there. To me,

I think at that time that we were also moving to make sure that it had 24-hour capabilities, and probably if you talk to him, later - you know, it takes three shifts, you know, to do this thing for as long as we've done it now, which is some five -- October, November, December, January, February -- five months now. So in order to give anybody

any time down at all it takes three shifts to keep going 24 hours a day, and that's where we're at now. weren't there for a long time. happen. Mr. Lofgren: Was there any concern early on about But we

I took awhile to make that

needing to evacuate the building or the center, or whether you're -MG VAUGHN: I think that, again, we had people

234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW monitoring the fire, and the smoke, and where it was.

19 We

knew where it was contained or where it was, and there was probably more smell down here than there was smoke. At

some time or other there got to be a concern with the potential for water, because much of our stuff, our wiring and what not, is in the floor, and there was some concern, and we started tracking where the water was. But I think

that although it wasn't real apparent, you know, whether or not there were other attacks scheduled, we did know of the one coming in from Pennsylvania. Mr. Lofgren: MG VAUGHN: So you were aware of that --

We were aware of that because of the

phone calls and the fact that the watch was on line during that process, and so there was an effort, or we did move or make a move to move some people to site R. But I think

that there was, you know, after we got over the initial three or four or five, three or four hours, there was more of an attempt, I think, to make sure that the Army Operations Center stayed up and running and connected from here. There was more of an attempt to do that, than there

was action to actually move the OPs Center. We did put our liaison Mr. Gary Gall, who is the 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




exercise director for the OPs center, and it worked a couple of actions on, if for some reason we had to vacate the OPs Center, which site would be go to short of not including site R, and there are a couple of locations here fairly close. Not anything to do with at that time, with If we actually

the fire but more with, again, with water.

lost our COMs capability, where would we transfer that kind of ? seat to ? [Note: term not clear on tape].

But, again, the thrust especially after probably the first eight or ten hours was simply to stay in here. don't recall when we knew, and you know, it took some time, to have the fire put out, but I don't recall when we knew that water wasn't going to be an issue either, but there was a real thrust to keep the Operations Center open the whole time. Mr. Lofgren: here -MG VAUGHN: I don't know that I'd call it overloaded, Did you get overloaded with people down I

and I don't know that I've ever considered it as overloaded. I do know, you know, during an emergency the CAT is the place, and the AOC is the place that people will migrate. We had a lot of people in here by
234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW necessity, and I think that's just part of operational reality on something like this, that that's going to happen, so I don't -- I was certainly glad that we had some of the general officer help that we had in here because there was a lot of different actions all at the same time going on, and it was good to have, again, the ones that, you know, that I recounted to you.


Awhile ago between Webster and Eikenberry and Vince Hardy, it was good to have them here. Mr. Lofgren: MG VAUGHN: Because they could make decisions or -Because they could help take actions, It's just like the compilation of

take a larger action.

the status, you know, when all the information brief where we're at that had to be compiled and go together, and Eikenberry and Hardy really fell in with that, and Webster gave us some relief on shifts. They all just pulled

together and did what they could for the first three or four or five days. Mr. Lofgren: Very specific kind of detail question, Did you get out of

but how did you get the woman's phone? your Explorer or -MG VAUGHN: I sure did.

I rolled down my -- I have

234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




electric windows on my Explorer, and she was talking, and I rolled down, just rolled down the window and yelled at her, asked if I could borrow her phone, and of course, I was in uniform, and she said sure, she was still in shock. I just said -- I told her is "Ma'am, I need to call in to Could I borrow your phone?"

that building right now. Mr. Lofgren:

For somebody writing about, sort of the

history of the Army dealing with the attack on the Pentagon and what it spawned, what's significant about the AOC operations? That is, we know what goes on in the AOC

in general, but is there some impression or perspective that you would want somebody writing about this to know, that they might not pick up from the normal course of research? MG VAUGHN: It's a very good question, because I

think, and again we say AOC, the Army Operations Center goes all the time, every day, whether there's -- and, of course, there's crises around the world, but what made this one spectacular on the front end, is that one of the worst things you have to deal with is the mass casualty event. And it's hard enough thinking about dealing with

that, you know, when its some other place, but we had the 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW worst situation here.


We had a mass casualty event on our

own headquarters, and so we were going to end up in the crisis response, in the consequence management mode and actually in an operational execution mode, you know, all at one time. CATs, by their very nature, are to deal with crises, and every command stands them up. But I think that,

again, what made this one really, really spectacular on the front end was the fact that we got hit and had to deal with the immediacy of who we lost, accounting for all those people, and putting together the next phases of dealing with all of that. For a long time our number one priority, was locating and identifying and taking care of, either in a hospital, or there were names of our soldiers and civilians, and you know, as far as something that is probably our thinking here will be, on this crisis action team, especially as long as we've run it now, in looking back we would probably hot bed this thing at a little higher level. And

what I'm saying by that is normally day to day if you walk by the CAT there wouldn't be anybody in there. Of course,

we exercise it from time to time and we have staff 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


M6 CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW training, but you know, you'd have to go back and think well, maybe I need to structure this a little bit


different, with augmentation units and drilling reservists and National Guardsmen that would actually hot bed this thing at a much higher level than what we were doing previously. Right now, for instance, in order for the Army to get back to doing its business plus doing all the daily crisis action business, and I don't know what the percentage is, but probably as much as 80 to 90 percent of that CAT is pulled by Army Reserve and National Guard soldiers, and doing a magnificent job, but that's probably one takeaway. And, of course, for the Pentagon the other take-

away is that it really stressed the importance of being able to account for all of your people. I think that what we saw is that for organizations that were predominantly military, that that came rather easy, and the answers were pretty quick. For those that

were predominantly civilian, probably it wasn't embedded quite the same way. It was a little harder, you know, to

get the actual numbers and names of people that were truly missing. 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




Mr. Lofgren: you? MG VAUGHN:

Is there anything I should have asked


You'll think of things.

The pieces

for the CAT, I think it's interesting, you know, as you look at how we changed you know, from phase to phase to phase, and there were lots of, you know, all the various pieces were going together at one time, that you know, priorities such as accounting for and taking care of

people, you know, on the front end, to getting the requirements in from all the commands and then dealing with all the mobilization piece that followed on top of that, and then the actions in support of the war, so I mean there were a lot of phases that we moved through quickly. One of the big things that jumped out is the issue that they're still dealing with now, which is homeland security. And you know, when you deal with war plans and

bids and documents there are -- there's a process for planning and validating and putting forces against particular plans, and so you just move quickly into that process. Here, because of the attack on this building,

and then the follow-on immediate concerns of securing a
234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005




certain functions and facilities around the United States, such as chem sites and some of our key installations and a lot of critical infrastructure, there wasn't a plan to deal with that. And so, when you look at what the Army did, the Army MACOMs came in with their requests, and those were prioritized and filled here in OD by the G-3 or DCSOPS of the Army, as opposed to a CINC driving that process. Service ended up reacting quickly in driving out those security forces. There was not a plan, there was not a The

TPFD and there was no forces for a sink in charge of what happened. And I say what happened, I don't mean the I mean in charge of what was

Pentagon, necessarily.

happening throughout the United States on the ground that had a force ready to go -[END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGIN SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE] MG VAUGHN: The big issue is exactly what they're

dealing with right now, as a start-in to this CINC NORTHCOM situation, where there will be forces for what the plan is, with the thought that next time around there will be a structure that will deal with that. But the

Services, and especially the Army, which has the great 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005


MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW land component, and the chem sites, especially the Army, we had to deal with that real quick. Mr. Lofgren: MG VAUGHN: Busy time.


Yeah, it's hard to, you know, when it's

all coming together here it's hard to look back and piece together all the various things that were going on. That's a good stud in itself. You know, all the documents that came out of here. Mr. Lofgren: Okay.

I thank you for your time, sir.

MG VAUGHN: Are you done? Mr. Lofgren: MG VAUGHN: Yes, sir.

Well, you're most welcome.


234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS & CO., INC. 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005