Between Detective B. CLARK & Mark TWITCHELL On 2008 Oct 20 At Edmonton Police Services Headquarters

File #08-137180

(Background noise) Elapsed time 00:01:09 (Door opens) CLARK Hi Mark thanks for waiting.

TWITCHELL Yeah. (Door closes) CLARK So as you know Mark we’re just here uh trying to find uh this John fellow. John ALTINGER. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Um I have no idea what happened to this guy. But my job is obviously to uh find him. Right? Uh we don’t know if he’s met with foul play or if a crime’s been committed here we don’t know any of that. TWITCHELL Right. CLARK I mean we’re simply looking for a missing person that that his friends have reported missing. He’s been gone for quite some time now. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK And of course you came into the picture because we know he went over to that garage.

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TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK At some point and that’s why uh Detective TABLER uh talked to you. Now like I told you I don’t know if a crimes been committed but I I just wanna tell you that you know part of part, part of all this is that you can contact a lawyer at any time if you want. If you wanna talk to one you’re free to do so, I’ll take you to a phone you can call one. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Um right now like I say I don’t know if I’m investigating a crime or I’m just investigating a missing person. I don’t know if this guys met with foul play or what that’s my jobs to get the truth right. TWITCHELL Right. CLARK That’s that’s why so we have to talk to anybody who may have had contact with him or may have anything to do with any of the circumstances around that. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK And that’s why you’re here. So appreciate you coming in on your own accord. I mean uh I know it’s been a long time and we’ll try and get through this. And uh get’cha outta here. Alright. As part of my investigation if uh foul play has occurred, uh or if I find out that foul play has (Stammers) occurred to to John. Then you must understand that anything you say to me can be used as evidence in court. Okay. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK So I can take that down in writing and use it as evidence in court if it came to that. Okay? And as again (Stammers) I don’t know what happened to him. For all I know he he could be out someone’s house right now I don’t know but we’re just trying to find this guy cuz his Page 2 of 89


friends are obviously concerned. Do you have any questions about that stuff? What I just told you in that right now anything about that? TWITCHELL No. CLARK Okay. I really appreciate you took the time to write everything down. It was a great statement. You went into great detail and uh that was good. I I read it over I mean there there’s obviously a few things I just wanna cover with you on that. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK One of the things I’d like to do is uh I mean you you wrote very detail do you you’re a good writer TWITCHELL I CLARK like you went into a lot

TWITCHELL I tried CLARK of detail.

TWITCHELL yeah. CLARK Yeah and that’s good. It just that I always find when people talk about it they tend to to probably go into a little bit more detail. That you might not write down the little little things you know. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK So one of things (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Pardon me (Overtalk) CLARK I like to (Overtalk)

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TWITCHELL for the eye thing it’s just my contacts (Overtalk) CLARK Oh that’s okay yeah I know it it’s late too. Um one of the things I like to do is… this is your interview not mine. Okay. I’m just here to get the information and assist you in trying to get that information. Some little things. What I want you to do is talk basically talk me through um the garage. You know start at the beginning. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Talk me through it. I’m gonna let you talk through it. I’m gonna then ask you a few questions I want you to relax, take your time, take as along as you need. Go into as much detail as you can and try and think about the little things. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Try and remember the little things cuz you you might not think it’s important TWITCHELL But it could be. CLARK but it might key on something that I know or someone else has told us you know that type of thing. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK And then what we’ll do is once once you’ve gone through it is I’ll just take you back and I’ll just ask you a few questions to really key on certain little things. Uh and that might twig your memory you know. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK And and that’s why (Stammers) this is one of the things we do with any of our witnesses.

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TWITCHELL Right. CLARK So the smallest information can help.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK You never know. Don’t hold back anything even as unimportant as you might think it might be tell me it. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Cuz you never know. And uh I’ll just let you go and like I say take as much time as you need. TWITCHELL Okay. No problem. CLARK So basically start with um I know about the garage okay I don’t think we need to go through all that I know how you rented all and I know that you make movies I don’t think we need to go through that. But basically start at the beginning where you think all this starts to come about in regards to this fellow that’s missing. TWITCHELL Where it starts to come about okay. Um… well I guess the place that I could think where any of it would start would be where uh when it gotten to the point where someone else got access to the place. And uh I mean it still only speculation at this point cuz I don’t know from (Stammers) the incident that happened with my car. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL But uh that the information getting out there is the thing that would stand out to me. So… like when I go back and try to think about who else knows about the project about what we do there. Uh my whole crew. A couple of cast members. There’s uh I was posting casting calls on places like Facebook. Stuff like that and uh didn’t really get into the

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details of the location unless I was actually communicating with people about it or if I was considering people for a role or crew conditions. So that’s the part from like communication off of my end anyway getting out to the world as to that area. Uh… and then uh… the more direct version of course was when the break-in with the car happened on the eighth. And uh… just noticed that these things were all missing in the car. Um when Joss dropped me off looked perfectly fine. Um got in the vehicle he took off and then that’s when I started notice that things were missing. So found out my sunglasses were missing there were some personal stuff there the cash and the change in the (Stammers) in the cups and stuff like that and and of course my receipts and that concerned because the Western Union one had my personal address on it. And uh the rental receipts from Kirkside with uh the address for the garage on there were in there. And uh I mean typically you know when you live at a place like St. Albert but rent a garage out on the south, you know it’s, if I saw that stuff I would assume that the person doesn’t go there a whole lot. Uh maybe just because it’s used as like a workshop I mean I was gonna use it for a workshop anyway but uh you know and for a filming location and that’s I I don’t know like I can get into trying to evaluate what someone else would be thinking all day if I want to but uh I don’t know that’s that’s for me I think where it starts because and it’s an unknown factor for me I don’t know how many people have that information once one person gets it who they give it to or share it with or (Stammers) who’s in their circle or where it ends up I mean… CLARK Yeah exactly.

TWITCHELL For all I know (Stammers) like the guy could’ve just taken it in then thrown it away and someone else picked it up I don’t know. But you know its how you even try to track that. So… that I mean looking back that’s where I would I see probably the leak and uh I don’t know like uh it didn’t uh really occur to me again like I said until I started to really Page 6 of 89


kind of talk it over with my wife and she brought it up and said well what about what happened with your car. And then we reflected back again on Thanksgiving uh the same thing was when uh we came home on the twelfth and noticed that our door was unlocked which is really odd for us because we usually habitually lock every time and uh it was just odd that they were both unlocked like that and it didn’t you know it didn’t set anything off I mean we were cautious it didn’t appear that anybody had been in the house uh you know nothing was taken. I don’t when I walk through a house like who walks through their house and does a little mental inventory of where every little tiny item is. If there’s something glaring different then you might notice it but I didn’t see anything. Uh and we ended up just kind of chalking it up to our own paranoia at the time we were just thinking oh well you know what we were probably leaving with the kid and trying to get all our gear into the car and these things are goin’ on uh what might one of us might not have been paying attention and there’s something and just assume that the other one took care of it when they didn’t and it ended up like that so we’re kind of still not completely sure about that. Um and then uh like anything cuz it’s around in that same weekend on the Friday I had gone there to uh clean up the mess that we left from the last time we were there on the shoot stuff like the coffee cups that we had in there. There was a lot of garbage just from food and containers and things like that that I was trying to get out of the way uh get stuff that had been left in there from when I started renting it and junk like the bike and stuff like that and getting that out of the way. Is uh my intention with uh the film is to finish it up. It’s just basically one affect shot in the whole thing so it doesn’t take a lot to complete. Get edited out there into like film festivals. Submit it to places and see if we can pitch into a series or a movie. And if that’s the case, if we have some sort of cause or you know income level coming in to be able to continue that uh we’d be able to use the same location because it’s so inexpensive to go back Page 7 of 89


and do future episodes. So went over to clean the place up to get it ready for whatever possible future need we would need it for. And uh (Sighs) that was in the afternoon (Sighs) uh I know I was outta there at least by five-thirty cuz I was be home at six. And uh and then the next time that I remember being in there was in the middle of the week. So that was the uh situation where I was picking up some cleaning material to replace the ones that I had used. To go drop them off. Uh and then I you know I went to fill up uh my jerrycan with gas and I think that I might’ve forgotten to put that in the eight page version of the statement but anyway um (Makes noise with mouth) I went to fill up my jerrycan and then I pull over cuz I get this call from my co-producer on the phone this guy from L.A. that’s helping me put together my big feature the day players comedy. And uh so I stop I talk to him for a few seconds I try to get some uh information out of him that he had like tried to tell me before but I didn’t have the chance to write down once I got of the phone then this guy uh taps on my window and at first I’m thinkin’ okay he’s gonna ask me for like loose change or you know something like that but he didn’t like a transient he seemed to be you know dressed like a normal person. So uh I roll down the window and he asked me you know hey buddy do you wanna buy a car and uh I said well you know I’m in a car (Laughs) like I what do you mean. And uh he goes well I shacked up with this really rich lady uh you know it’s like a sugar momma kind of situation and she’s gonna take care of me and she’s even gonna buy me a new car when we get back from a vacation that we’re gonna take. So I’m just looking to unload mine and don’t really care that much how much I get for it you know how much do you have on you. And uh so I say well (Laughs) huh forty bucks. And with that tone and everything (Laughs) like I’m not expecting anything here and he he’s like yeah sure fair enough. Like you know what (Stammers) it’s here in the parking lot where do you want it and so uh I go really uh okay um well I’m going to this garage location that I had to drop off some stuff so you know follow Page 8 of 89


me over there so. (Big breath) he gets into his car follows me over there I park on the uh side of the driveway that has the manual door to the garage. He parks on the side that’s got the the power door I made it purposely did that so that it would be easier to to get the car in there. Uh went around to the passer- not the passenger door I’m saying pedestrian door. Uh opened it up, opened the uh garage door with the button that’s on the inside. And uh he drove the car in. Uh got out I gave him the money he showed me some documentation uh I admit I didn’t like pour over it in great detail but it looked like it was legitimate insurance and registration for the vehicle. So I believed him. Uh and uh then you know and it was a bit of a shift in him that I didn’t really take (Stammers) into any kind of stock at the time uh looking back on it I didn’t really try and to (Stammers) look through it and evaluate it I guess it kind of seems a little off but I don’t know what it means it’s just he was really easy going and excited and all that when he first approached me uh when we got to the actually garage though he kind of toned it all down seemed uh I don’t know if you wanna say distant but he was like you know spaced out or anything he just kinda a lot more serious and then uh at that point he you know we finish our transaction he takes off, I’ve never actually like bought or sold a used car before so I wasn’t you know familiar with the bill of sale thing. But uh he just seemed like he was in a hurry to get outta there I was trying to be a little more uh conversational maybe try ta see if I could you know in a cordial way get some detail out of him but um he just seemed like he was uh needing to get out so he left uh he ended up taking off back in the other direction that we uh came from originally which was back toward the Mary Brown’s where we uh had met. And uh it’s like a couple of blocks different CLARK Mm hm.

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TWITCHELL in terms of where the distance is there so. Yeah then he was gone and then uh I took another look at the car I looked inside and everything like that it seemed like it was pretty clean. Uh you know I’m thinking okay what is there like you know two tons of cocaine in the trunk like I’m trying to figure out what the catch is here I’m not making any assumptions I’m not thinking oh this is you know… just luck or anything like that I wasn’t uh thinking that I was just thinking okay well you know until I can actually figure out what’s going on with the car we’ll see what happens. Um but I noticed that it was also manual transmission. I had no idea how to drive a stick. Um I was curious about uh if my buddy Joss knew how to drive a stick because uh he had had a couple different cars and uh so I gave him a buzz and I said hey man do you know how to drive a stick per chance he goes yeah yeah yeah. So alright uh I told him this ridiculous story of what had happened and uh and he goes really I’m like well yeah I’m standing here with it in here so uh do you (Stammers) do you wanna be able to just like park this thing in front of your house in the meantime so that you know then by Monday I can check on it I’ll register it uh or try to see through the AMA what’s going on just check to see if there’s any lien’s on it or if it’s been reported stolen or anything like that cuz I don’t wanna hang on to it obviously if that that’s the case. So um he said yeah alright uh and uh we agreed to meet he was just getting off of work. So uh he was on his way home anyways. He uh stopped by the place uh we took a look. Uh you know went through everything. Found a couple of basic things in the car it wasn’t anything special there was like a paintball mask and um something in the glove compartment (Stammers) to hold an electronic device or something I’m not sure he said something about it might’ve been like an IPod plug I don’t know but uh so I was like okay well whatever. Um you know let’s just move the thing and that’ll be that. So he moved it into the front of his house I kept the key and uh and then I just kinda didn’t really think about it cuz I was pretty busy. I knew that I was gonna have a lot of Page 10 of 89


things to do throughout the next couple of days. I figured the next opportunity I was gonna have to actually like go ahead and research this was gonna be on Monday. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So I just kinda put it outta my head for the time being. Uh that that was that whole situation um it was kinda just a unexpected thing happened somewhat outta the blue so it wasn’t something that (Laughs) really kinda stuck out to me uh and this is of course I’m still thinking everything is fine. Um and then it was Saturday night that same week later on… when I got the call from the constable. So it was Constable MAXWELL that called me. Ten o’clock. Roughly. At home. And uh so I’m like okay well I look at my phones a lot it said private call I’m like oh okay (Laughs) I don’t know usually what that means most of the time I have caller ID so I can see who’s calling me but anyway I just answered the phone uh he was you know asking me this is gonna sound really weird but do you rent this garage at Fortieth Ave and I said well yeah why. And uh he began to give me a little bit of detail as to to why he was there and what was goin’ on with it and uh asked me if could come down to check it out because it was a serious issue. Uh that they’re dealing with a possible missing person. Uh that one caught me by surprise. I was uh pretty blown away by that one I did like (Stammers) really. So I mean yeah it’s takes me takes me by surprise like aback a little bit and I go okay well so I (Laughs) I kinda pause to think about that for a minute uh and then I asked him a couple questions he asked me a couple more and uh and then at that point I’m like okay well you know he’s asking me if I can come down and everything like that I’m not you know at first I’m thinking about the logistics of crossing the city but then I realize it’s an important issue I’m like okay. I’ll come down there lets see what’s goin’ on. Investigate the situation check it out because they’re telling me all these things that don’t make any sense to me. They’re telling me that Page 11 of 89


people are reporting that there’s parties going on in the garage or around it or something and that is like confusing. I have no idea what that’s about. They’re saying the lights are left on and that’s not something I do. So I’m thinking (Stammers) that doesn’t make any sense. Uh so I (Stammers) get my stuff straightened in my house get back into the car and uh (Stammers) taking off and like my wife’s asking me what’s going on what’s going on, I’m like you know what I just gotta go something up with the rental garage. Gotta go down there. So I uh on the way there had uh two different calls from Kirkside Real Estate so I guess they were trying to check in with them with the Realtor and everything like that and the Realtor’s calling me on the phone and so uh and I’m pulling over to talk to them so I can actually focus on what they’re saying and answer their questions and she was saying yeah I don’t know what’s goin’ on but the police are saying this and that and the other thing and they’re you know that’s not what it’s for or (Laughs) they’re they’re it’s she’s almost got this tone like I’m the one with the party going on. But uh I mean that’s absurd and so I’m saying no I don’t have any idea what the hells happening. Uh I’m gonna find out right now we’re I’m goin’ down there ta ta talk to them and she just asked me to call her back and let her know what was going on. Um she was checking with me more regularly so um she actually ended up calling me and I was able to give her an update before I even had a chance to call her back. So uh yeah I get down to the location uh Maxwell said just ta like look for the police cars so I mean I’m assumed he parked in the back when I was about a minute out from getting there he called me again and just he said okay well we’re here we’re where are you I’m like I’m a minute out so I’ll see you in a cuple of seconds. Uh came down my usual route just off of Whitemud and Fiftieth Street. Hang a le- a right at the Fortieth Ave there and uh went around the back. Maxwell was there. Met him and uh another female constable I don’t remember the name. But uh the two of them were there and so they said okay well lets see Page 12 of 89


what’s goin’ on in there cuz the lights are on now. And that one again surprisingly. The lights are on right now okay. So I go reaching for the gate they said the uh the gate might be locked closed or something and I’m thinking okay well I don’t remember that but I went to reach for it, it opened. Uh there was nothing blocking it so. Didn’t really know what to think of that one. Came down the side uh sidewalk on the side where the garage is come around to the pedestrian door, and um like okay well let’s open this and see what’s goin’ on and the first think I notice is that uh the padlock that’s locked on where the latch is that I installed wasn’t my padlock. Uh I had initially put an original one on there that was a different style. This one was foreign to me I hadn’t seen it before and didn’t know what to do with that. Uh so they suggested just take the latch off so uh he had like a little pocket screwdriver thing that he was able ta actually like pull the screws out of the latch. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So we were able to get that open. Uh and then uh you know just to see if it was closed or not I mean I put my key into the deadbolt anyway. Um you know like I mentioned before I never really trusted the deadbolt cuz the realty company had told me that they replaced it um I noticed that they they did a good job like the lock guy did a great job of putting it on the door, um and I assumed that it works okay with the housing that the bolt goes into to but uh from my perspective when I looked at it, it didn’t look like it was that solid or sturdy. Maybe it is you know but it looked like there was like missing pieces there was holes where the wood was gone and stuff like that. So uh I never really trusted it that much it’s the whole reason I did the padlock thing in the first place. So I never took much stock in the deadbolt thing I didn’t treat it with uh any kind of importance I barely ever locked it to my recognition I just used the padlock and mostly trusted that. Um and then uh so yeah when I when I opened it I didn’t I don’t remember in that moment at that time Page 13 of 89


if there was resistance or not. If it was open or closed. But uh the door just opened anyway. And uh so then I step back and wait for the officers to go in. Uh sure enough all the lights are on and uh they go in, I step into the doorway and that’s where I stood the whole time. Didn’t move and uh looked around and noticed that several things were out of place. A lot of my cleaning supplies were missing or out of their packages. (Makes noise with mouth) Some of the looks like some of the paper towels are missing. Um… had a uh ammonia bottle that looked like it was empty. I couldn’t tell from my other cleaner if that had been used or not. And then uh I also noticed the uh like I ordered a steel drum to use for a garbage can in that place. And uh the last time I saw it it was all grey metal. This time it was like pink on over half of it and uh looked like it had something dripping from the edges and stuff like that and it uh when the officer opened it, looked like it had been used to burn something. So that one was a bit of a shocker I looked around I I noticed that uh there were garbage bags missing. I didn’t really did a chance to do like a real I don’t know inventory and see what was there and what wasn’t. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL In terms of anything like all original items I didn’t really have like a… a chance to really go through it but uh… and one thing I really wish that I would’ve tried to check for was that door. Cuz uh there’s those two garage doors the one that has the automatic power one and the other one that’s a manual and uh… I know that we were opening and closing the manual one to figure out lighting for the shoot and I can’t remember if we’d actually closed the lock on it and that’s just one of those things that’s out of sight and out of mind. Don’t remember closing it back up or locking that and if I would’ve remember that one I would’ve closed it for sure but I don’t remember personally doing that. Um (Makes noise with mouth) (Sighs) after everything checked out they got done with Page 14 of 89


that I left uh the garage with them. Got into the car, started filling out my uh statement and uh waited for Detective Topma to show up. So he got on the scene talked to them caught up on everything that was goin’ on. Uh and then (Stammers) you know we all came back to the South Station at that point and uh went through that first videotaped interview. CLARK Anything else?

TWITCHELL Not that I can think of. CLARK Mm. Just a couple a few things I wanna go over here what’s first of all what’s your cell number? TWITCHELL Nine seven seven. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Seven eight four zero. CLARK Is that the only one you have or do you have other ones?

TWITCHELL I have one other one. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL That ones two seven zero. Eight zero nine seven. CLARK Which is? Why do you have two like what’s?

TWITCHELL Well I initially used it as one for home and one for work. I try to keep that separate. So that I’m not getting you know and my phone numbers not getting out and stuff like that especially for the business and whatnot. CLARK And which ones which?

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TWITCHELL Uh the seven eight four zero that ones my home one. CLARK And the two seven oh is your work?

TWITCHELL Yeah. I try to use that one primarily for text because it’s cheaper to do like in terms of (Unintelligible) messages back and forth between the US CLARK Which one for text?

TWITCHELL the uh eight zero nine seven one. CLARK The work one?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK So is that the one all the people call you on in regards to your business?

TWITCHELL I’m trying to shift it that way yeah. I started out with the other one for the longer time. So I’ve got it still a lot of my contacts in there but I’m trying to push it towards the other one. CLARK Okay. Um… just basically I just wanna go back over the uh incident with the uh first of all what type of car do you drive? TWITCHELL I have a Two thousand and three Pontiac Grand Am. CLARK What color’s that?

TWITCHELL Maroon red. CLARK Now when you say Maroon red, what is it? Mm more maroon or more red? TWITCHELL Oh it’s maroon it’s yeah. CLARK More maroon.

TWITCHELL Yeah. Page 16 of 89



Two door four door?

TWITCHELL Four. CLARK What about um your buddy’s that work with you there? At the garage.

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK People around, what type of vehicles would they be drivin’ or?

TWITCHELL Uh (Sighs) okay other cars that have come there that I know of for a fact. Uh my buddy Scott has a truck. Uh it’s a white one with a canopy on the back I’m not sure of the make and model though. CLARK Okay. Okay Scott, who’s Scott?

TWITCHELL Scott COOKE. He’s one of the guys that does production design for me so he’s uh he works with uh Mike YOUNG and Jay HOWATSON in building set pieces and stuff like that. CLARK When’s the last time Scott would’a been there?

TWITCHELL Would’a been Saturday September twenty-seventh. CLARK The weekend of the shoot?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. What about uh Mike YOUNG and that? Did he drive?

TWITCHELL Uh yeah Mike’s gotta van. CLARK And what about Jay?

TWITCHELL I don’t think he has a car. CLARK So just going back to um I know you had talked to Mike TYLER I think it was just last night right? That you Page 17 of 89


TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK talked to him? The last time you were at the garage, when would that have been? TWITCHELL I remember it as Wednesday. CLARK Last Wednesday so that’s nineteen

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK or fifteenth?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay and that’s the day you take the cleaning supplies there?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK And you buy those the same day?

TWITCHELL I think I did. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Where’d you buy them from?

TWITCHELL At a Home Depot. CLARK Which Home Depot was that?

TWITCHELL (Sighs) oh which one did I go to. It was the one in St. Albert well by my house. CLARK St. Albert by your house?

TWITCHELL Yeah. Page 18 of 89



Okay. Um… so before now the fifteenth Wednesday when’s the time you were there before that?

TWITCHELL The previous Friday. CLARK So we’re talking for (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Tenth. CLARK so it’s the tenth. Okay and what was goin’ on on the tenth?

TWITCHELL Uh in the afternoon I got there to clean up. That was my cleanup day. CLARK Okay you’re cleaning up, what are you cleaning up

TWITCHELL Just CLARK that day?

TWITCHELL what we left there from the shoot all the trash, the coffee cups, the extraneous stuff any kind of like if there was anything left that was like a an object like a cushion or something that had like my uh corn syrup mix on it or something like that I try to get that outta there so it wasn’t uh attracting bugs or anything. CLARK Okay and was that the day that you wiped all the current corn syrup and all that type of stuff? TWITCHELL Yeah well we tried to manage that more on the shoot on the day uh cuz that stuff just gets everywhere and that was an untested affect that we actually done it was like two hours trying to dick around with that thing just to make it to see if we could get it to look right. Um but so I mean generally it’s the mess yeah. Trying to get anything that still had that stuff on it outta there. I’m still not sure if I got it all. CLARK Okay. So you’re there on the tenth, that’s the Friday.

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TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK What about before the tenth do you remember?

TWITCHELL Before the tenth. Uh I have to look at a calendar. (Mumbles) (Unintelligible) the twenty-seventh uh I don’t know I I might’a gone back a couple days after the shoot or something to try ta… see if there was anything that I missed. CLARK What do you mean see if there’s anything you missed?

TWITCHELL Well I rented well not rented I borrowed I borrowed some video equipment from a friend of mine named Spencer COPELAND he had lent us his uh camera to shoot with. His tripod. Uh and uh you know like the basic uh video recorder machine ta save all of our footage to. And uh when he came back to my place to pick it up he got the camera and the recorder but he left a couple of cables behind and uh his tripod and stuff like that. So (Stammers) CLARK When did he pick that stuff up at?

TWITCHELL Oh I don’t remember. I don’t remember what day that was. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK So you remember being there on the tenth you were cleaning up was there anybody with you are you by yourself? TWITCHELL No it’s just me. CLARK Alright. And when you’re doing the clean up then are you using ammonia and all that on that day is there TWITCHELL Mm hm.

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a big clean up or? So

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK and then on the fifteenth you go back with more supplies was it to clean up on the fifteenth or what were you doing on the fifteenth? TWITCHELL No that was uh because I had used so much cleaning supplies before to try to get that place that uh I had realized I was gonna need more the next time so if there was a next time I’d have that stuff there and so I just dropped it off to stay there and be used in the future at some point. CLARK Okay. When you’re there on the tenth what time are you there at?

TWITCHELL On the tenth so now we’re at, that was a Friday right? CLARK Friday.

TWITCHELL Yeah no I got there around three. Left sometime between five and fivethirty. CLARK Okay and then on the fifteenth what time were you there?

TWITCHELL Uh the fifteenth was the Wednesday. CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL Yeah that was I got the to that area around uh one-thirty. And then Joss and I were both outta there before four. Four-thirty something like that. I think it was like no… yeah it was before four o’clock it was three-thirty to four around there. CLARK Okay. And you and the fifteenth.

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK That’s the day where the car comes into play. Page 21 of 89


TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. So going back now to here, what I want you to do is take your mind back to the fifteenth. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Um… I’m gonna go through that whole day with you as to what was going on on the fifteenth. Okay so now we’re going back till till last Wednesday, four days ago. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Alright. Uh take me through your day there. Um tell me what’s goin’ on uh right from basically the time you wake up. TWITCHELL Hm. CLARK And the reason I do that is I just I I like to bring my witnesses back to important days, it’s an important day because this this is the day with the vehicle. TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK And I want you to just walk through uh tell me what you did from the time you woke up. Uh take your time. And just walk me through your day that day and then we’ll work our way up to the car and see if somethin’ maybe (Stammers) that you might jog your memory you know about somethin’ else that maybe might be important here. TWITCHELL Okay. Uh well my days are pretty routine. They bleed together uh as far as like anything specifically special about Wednesday in the morning I can’t remember anything specific. Um usually I just I wake up somewhere between eight and nine. Uh get up get ready. Um I can’t

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really… it’s tough for me to work from home (Laughs) because of the distractions that are there. CLARK Uh huh.

TWITCHELL Uh but I I can get it done cuz I do have like an office in my basement and so um I got up uh checked emails try to see what my plan was for the day. I had some line items I’m sure that I need to get taken care of. Uh a lot of that stuff is daily movie producing stuff which just has to do with calling to follow-up with investors, sending out business plans uh getting things followed-up on that way. Uh finding out as long as like you know that our gap programs still going through that the all that information’s okay. Um and just you know basically staying on top of that stuff. Uh (Stammers) we come upstairs and sometimes if uh my wife needs to just grab a shower I’ll watch the kid for twenty minutes before I leave and sometimes it’s not necessary. Um they’re specifically Wednesday I don’t remember which was which on that one. Cuz it just shakes up all the time. Uh then I would leave. (Sighs) Throughout the morning if uh well obviously picking up the cleaning supplies would’a been on my item list so that shopping trip would’ve been one thing that I did that morning uh but you know I can’t remember also if it was like either the (Sighs) the Tuesday or the Wednesday uh these are the things that I don’t really log in my mind, like saving the dates of the stuff. But uh picked the stuff up. And then… my next destinations a coffee shop. I like to be able to operate outta those it’s just a comfortable, comfortable environment I can get on the phone and I can talk to people. Um do some basic networking, write down some things that I need to remember. Things that I need to send out. Uh (Sighs) if I have anything to pick up in terms of uh like a Western Union or something like that that’s gone through either through an eBay thing or something like that that I’ll get those line items taken care of. Um I think on Wednesday I might of actually shipped an eBay item. Go grab lunch. Uh and then after lunch was the Page 23 of 89


next destination was the uh garage. So started out for the south side. Uneventful trip if I remember. You know CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL nothing special there. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL And uh… yeah that’s it and then the next the next thing was to stop at the gas station. CLARK What time do you get to the garage?

TWITCHELL Uh I got there right around a quarter to two. CLARK What do you do there first?


TWITCHELL was the car thing CLARK take take your

TWITCHELL (Unintelligible) CLARK mind

TWITCHELL so CLARK back to the garage.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Tell me (Stammers) what you’re driving, where you park.

TWITCHELL Sure. Page 24 of 89



Um… what you notice.

TWITCHELL Well so I left the gas station and pull up and the the phone call takes place with the co-producer. And uh talked to him, get the tap on the window, I mean we went through all that. And (Overtalk) CLARK Okay that’s what, that’s what I want you to take me back to.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Take me back to all that incident there. You’re you you’re let’s go back to your lunch. You’re at lunch. Where do you go for lunch? TWITCHELL I don’t remember. CLARK Don’t know where where you went for lunch?

TWITCHELL No. Sometimes I grab a drive through or something like that but. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Where do you go from there?

TWITCHELL From having lunch? CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL Then I go for well the gas station. So I mean my (Overtalk) CLARK Okay when you say (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL my ultimate destination (Overtalk) CLARK the gas station, which gas station are you talking about?

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TWITCHELL Oh the ones that uh just off of Whitemud and Fiftieth Street. When you come off of Whitemud and turn on Fiftieth to go south. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL It’s the one that’s across the street from the Tim Horton’s right there. CLARK What what brand what what station is that though? Is it PetroCan, Shell, Esso? TWITCHELL I think it’s Shell. CLARK Okay. And what do you do in there?

TWITCHELL Uh filing up my jerrycan. CLARK And what are you doing that for?

TWITCHELL Well two reasons, one it’s good to have it in the car in case I’m getting low uh but also we were uh looking at getting a lawn mower I know it’s kind of you know late for this season we were able to borrow and electric one for uh our purposes this year but we’re gonna eventually wanna get a gas powered one and it’s gonna be helpful to have for that. CLARK Okay and where’s that jerrycan now?

TWITCHELL In my trunk. CLARK Of your Grand Am?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay so did you use any of the gas out of that jerrycan?

TWITCHELL I put some of it in my tank. Yeah. CLARK Okay. And when you’re doing remember how much gas you put in there?

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TWITCHELL Uh probably maybe half the can worth. CLARK Okay. Like is it a big one or a small one or what?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) about like this. CLARK Five gallon?

TWITCHELL Five liters or so. Yeah. CLARK Okay. So you’re at, so you drive from lunch to the gas station?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK On your way to the garage?

TWITCHELL Right. CLARK Okay. What happens next?

TWITCHELL Then I pull out I go continuing down Fiftieth Street with the intention to turn right on Fortieth Ave in order to get to the garage. That’s when my phone call happens. CLARK Sorry just taking your back a step cuz I wanna I wanna really go over the fine (Stammers) finite details here. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK This is why I find that when I do this even though you it’s it’s basically irrelevant to what we’re getting at it will help you remember things when we get to the meat of the (Stammers) story. TWITCHELL Okay.

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You know. When you’re fillin’ up with gas, do you pull right up to the pump, do you park to the side, do you walk up like how how does that happen that (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I park to the side. CLARK Okay what do you then?

TWITCHELL Uh open my trunk get the jerrycan out. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And then I go to fill it up. CLARK Could anyone have been watching you at that time?

TWITCHELL Uh maybe. CLARK Okay you didn’t notice anyone though?


TWITCHELL I wasn’t really (Stammers) checking behind my back (Overtalk) CLARK So do you

TWITCHELL or anything CLARK remember which pump you went up to?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Regular, supreme…

TWITCHELL Regular. CLARK Okay and then what do you do after you fill it up? Page 28 of 89


TWITCHELL Put it back into the trunk and then go in and pay for it. CLARK Okay so I don’t know that station but it’s just gotta is it a store or?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK A big store or that’s a little thing?

TWITCHELL Well it’s relatively big. CLARK Okay was do you remember how many people were there or?

TWITCHELL Uh a handful probably three or four. CLARK Okay so you just went in and paid? Do you remember cash, credit card?

TWITCHELL Cash I’m pretty sure. CLARK Alright. So now you leave there, where do you head from there?

TWITCHELL Then I go on Fiftieth Street south and I’m going to take a right on Fortieth Ave. That’s when the phone call (Stammers) makes place and then I decided (Overtalk) CLARK Okay a phone call now from who?


TWITCHELL From my co-producer. CLARK What’s his name?

TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh his name is R.P. DANIELS. He well its Robert P. DANIELS he likes to go by Pete he leaves his voicemail as R.P. but CLARK Mm hm. And where’s he calling from?

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TWITCHELL Los Angeles. CLARK And what company does he work for?

TWITCHELL Uh Sunflower Media Corp. CLARK Or is he I was just gonna say is he self-employed but… And do you know Mister DANIELS phone number? TWITCHELL Yeah. Um don’t have it on me though. CLARK Where do you keep that?

TWITCHELL In my uh regular phone. It’s in my car at the moment. CLARK Okay. Alright so you get a call from him, where are you when you get the call from him? TWITCHELL I am almost right at Fortieth Ave about to turn right. CLARK So what do you do then?

TWITCHELL Uh pull over. At that point. Cuz I don’t wanna be on the phone and driving at the same time so I-CLARK Okay and where do you pull over?

TWITCHELL I pull over like just as I turn on Fortieth Ave. Right at that street there. CLARK So as I recall there’s that little strip mall there.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK You do you pull into the strip mall or on the street?

TWITCHELL On the street. CLARK Okay. So which curb are you then would you be on the north curb?

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TWITCHELL South. Be south curb wouldn’t it? If you’re still facing-CLARK Well you were going south on Fiftieth.

TWITCHELL Oh if you’re yeah okay so north curb yeah. CLARK Okay. So you pull and you stop there.

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK And how long are you stopped there for?

TWITCHELL The entire time through the conversation? CLARK Yeah like approximately how long (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Oh (Sighs) maybe four or five minutes. Less than that I don’t know like with time it’s weird because you say like you know thirty seconds but if you actually sit there and let thirty seconds tick by (Laughs) it feels longer. CLARK Yeah.


TWITCHELL I mean CLARK understand that.

TWITCHELL Three four minutes I guess. CLARK Okay what happens next?

TWITCHELL Well once we’ve concluded the conversation decide what we’re gonna do then uh I start to pull out and give him a couple of seconds to follow me. Page 31 of 89



No no no no no. Go back, you’re on the phone.

TWITCHELL Oh okay. CLARK You’re on the phone

TWITCHELL On the phone. CLARK tell me what happens from there.

TWITCHELL Well uh I’m on the phone and I’m talking to R.P. and he uh is just informing me about what’s happening with the people that he’s talking to he’s got uh guys out of his rolodex that wants to to talk to about investing in the first round of the financing for our film. Um I tell him great send me an email with the uh information so I can send them an email with my treatment business proposal the basic stuff that they’re gonna wanna be able to take a look at in order to be involved in the project. Uh and then that conversation concludes. Uh hang up the phone and that’s when the tap on the window. CLARK Okay which window.

TWITCHELL It was um would be my front passenger side window. CLARK Okay and what what do you see tell me everything that’s goin’ on, take your mind back to sitting in that car now. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK And tell me everything you notice goin’ on around you what you see.

TWITCHELL Okay. Um there’s some traffic parked in the strip mall and by the Mary Brown’s. CLARK Mm hm.

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TWITCHELL Uh the guy who was tapping on the window is leaning forward uh looking in with a bit of a smile on his face. Uh I’m sorta tryin’ ta access him see what’s goin’ on with that uh don’t wanna get carjacked or anything so (Laughs) there’s that (Stammers) element to it. Um other things I don’t really like I didn’t (Stammers) what do you CLARK Well was your window up? Down?

TWITCHELL It was up at the time all of them were up. CLARK Okay and what happens next?

TWITCHELL Next I roll down the window. I don’t actually have like power windows so I reach over ta unroll it. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And uh just kinda do like the head not thing ta you know what’s up. And uh from that point that’s when he explains his situation. CLARK Okay tell me what he said.

TWITCHELL Okay. He says how you doin’. I was wondering if perchance you uh would be interested in buying a car. And uh I said well what do you mean and uh so then he goes well basically I’ve got this car that I need to sell. I’ve hooked up with this really rich woman who wants to take care of me (Laughs) and you know I’m not sure if I’m being fed a story here or what but he’s you know it goes on and says that uh she’s gonna end up buying me a brand-new car when we come back from a vacation that we’re gonna take together. And uh so at that point I’m thinkin’ okay well lucky bastard (Laughs) so you know he goes um I just wanna get rid of it so I can take off and I don’t really care how much I get for it. How much do you have on you? I said forty bucks, cuz I knew I had a little bit of cash in my pocket and um I’m kinda laughing at that whole

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concept just like you know I’m not expecting him to take it but uh he says okay sure sounds good. You know how do you wanna do this, do you want where do you wanna drop it off and uh I tell him well I’ve gotta place just right over here. It’s a garage that I use. Uh if you wanna follow me in there you can just park it in there and uh he goes okay fair enough so I’ll just follow you then. I go okay. He stands up goes back over to his car I notice that it’s a small red import. Uh wasn’t really clear on the other details of it at that time from that distance but uh didn’t really think (Stammers) anything of that. Started the car uh pulled forward slowly so that he’d have a chance ta pull in behind me and follow me to where I was going. Continued down Fortieth Ave. Would keep uh keep going until the block runs out, uh I forget exactly what street that is but you turn I guess at that point you turn north and then as soon as the alley is there turn right again. To go east. Come up that alley uh and then as soon as I get to the driveway of the garage, I take the longer way and park in front of the manual door that’s closer to where that couch is sitting. And uh so then he gets the idea of what we’re doing, he pulls into the other side. At that point I open my door, get outta my car. Walk over, he’s got the window rolled down from his side. And uh I explain to him I’m gonna go in open the door and then you can just drive the car in so he goes okay. I go through the gate, come around to the pedestrian door. Um my padlock still on there so I open it. Open the door. Walk inside push the button to open the powered garage door. As soon as it’s open he completes it by driving the car inside. Stops the vehicle, turns it off. He gets out from the driver’s side and uh so then I’m reaching for my wallet. Pull it out. Get the cash out. Hand it over to him. He say’s you know you know just so you don’t think I’m a scam artist or anything I’m gonna show you some documentation and you know this is my insurance and registration and you know (Stammers) like I said in the report I didn’t like you know go over it with a fine tooth comb I (Stammers) thought if he’s gonna be Page 34 of 89


showing me insurance and registration it’s probably gonna be legitimate um he uh had introduced himself uh early as uh as Martin that was the thing that I did glean a little bit off of what he had on him was the first name. So saw that part I thought okay. So I mean I didn’t ask for him to (Stammers) give it to me cuz that’s kinda like you know you don’t know me from anything and you’re just gonna hand over your stuff so I didn’t expect that from him. Um he put it back in his pocket. And uh said you know okay so I guess we’re we’re done and I go oh okay. (Laughs) I’m like well you know I mean are you the original owner? Um he goes yeah I bought it from the dealership initially three years ago and uh you know I’m the only owner that’s had the car at all and I’m like okay. That’s good any major accidents and he’s like no no. Anyways I gotta run so he you know did that um he went back out the garage door that he came in the door was open this whole time. Uh and then went walking down the alley and he uh continuing on the east direction back to where the uh Mary Brown’s was. CLARK Okay. You mentioned when he was back at your car there that he stood up, what do you mean by he stood up? TWITCHELL Well he was leaned over right for the talking to me part. And then CLARK Like just (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL stood up CLARK window then he didn’t get in the car your car

TWITCHELL No. CLARK at all anytime? Okay. Describe this guy to me.

TWITCHELL Uh he’s a little bit taller than me. He’s about six two. Cuz I’m six, six one depending on the time of day. Um so… had just a little bit of height

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over me. He had uh black hair. Uh he’s a Caucasian guy. Uh… he was wearing a green windbreaker with white stripes down uh the side. I just remember the stripes because I have hoody with stripes and it kinda stood out. Uh and then (Stammers) just jeans, black shoes. The only uh distinguishing thing that he had cuz he didn’t have any facial hair was the uh tattoo. On his neck. On his right side. CLARK What was that tattoo of?

TWITCHELL Uh the best way I could describe it is to call it a a Celtic Knot. CLARK What’s that?

TWITCHELL Uh (Makes noise with mouth) it’s like a circle of innerwoven thatch work I guess you could say. I don’t know how to describe that it’s kinda yeah just a lot of overlapping pieces that make it look like it’s uh an intricate knot working design into a circle. That has a distinctively uh Celtic look to it. So it’s something you might see on the front of an Irish church or something I don’t know. CLARK How big is this tattoo?

TWITCHELL Uh I guess about three inches in diameter. CLARK Like show me where it would be on your neck.

TWITCHELL Uh about here. CLARK Right there so quite visible over the (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK How longs his hair?

TWITCHELL Uh medium length probably right about here.

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Covering the ears or not?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK About the same as yours?

TWITCHELL Uh a little longer. CLARK Okay. Touching the shoulder or not?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) tou- what? CLARK Was the back of

TWITCHELL Ha. CLARK the hair touching the shoulders?

TWITCHELL Oh was the hair touching the shoulder uh no not quite. CLARK Okay. What style was it in did you notice?

TWITCHELL Uh it was just hanging down kind of slicked back. CLARK How old?

TWITCHELL Late twenties early thirties. CLARK Wearin’ a hat or anything?


TWITCHELL No. CLARK Seem like he was on drugs, drinking anything like that?

TWITCHELL Didn’t get that impression.

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Okay. When he approaches you at your car, where is his car parked?

TWITCHELL Uh it was parked… like a kitty-corner is that how you describe it. So from where I was parked it was like to the forward and to the side. Uh in that strip mall area. CLARK Okay is it by a certain store in that strip mall or where?

TWITCHELL Uh CLARK Like I don’t know what’s in that strip mall so

TWITCHELL Yeah I don’t CLARK you have to explain that to me.

TWITCHELL I don’t really go in there a lot either. It’s uh… the first like three or four stalls that are on the inside next to the driveway there that CLARK Coming off of Fortieth Avenue?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Next to which driveway then?

TWITCHELL Uh well when you’re comin’ down Fiftieth Street and this is Fortieth Ave. like right there. CLARK Like could you draw it on a on a piece of paper there?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Okay there’s a pen there. If you could just draw it out for me that will give me a better idea of… just kinda draw the intersection there and that strip mall and then where he would’ve been parked. TWITCHELL Okay. (Short pause) So. This is Fiftieth Street this is Fortieth Ave.

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Mm hm.

TWITCHELL then I would’ve been like here. And he would’ve been here. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Like the car was there. CLARK Is it so is there is this part of the strip mall like there’s buildings right here? TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. What do you know what he’s parked in front of? Which one?

TWITCHELL I don’t remember. CLARK What uh business or whatever. Okay. And where are you parked? Draw your car in there. TWITCHELL On on the street. Right here. CLARK Like where?

TWITCHELL Right before this driveway here. CLARK So you’re right where those marks are?

TWITCHELL Yeah. Right here. CLARK Okay. Alright. Gives me a better idea okay. So when you when where where do you first see this guy? TWITCHELL Uh well I wasn’t paying attention I was on my phone so the first I saw him was probably like just a a couple of steps like up here. Just as he’s coming toward the window. CLARK Okay. Is he alone? Page 39 of 89


TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK No one else around. Okay you go back now where uh he follows you parks the car in the garage oh one thing I wanted to ask you when did you put the uh (Makes noise with mouth) oh your other lock on the garage? When when did you put that on? TWITCHELL Oh the padlock? CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh that was (Stammers) when (Unintelligible) was. I think it was shortly before we actually shoot the film there. Cuz I asked Mike to pick it up for me. Uh when he was coming in with other materials so… it would’ve been some time in the week prior to the shoot. CLARK Oh so you’re talkin’ way back in September then?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. And what type was it a combination lock?

TWITCHELL Yeah it was a yeah just a combination padlock. CLARK And so where’s that lock now?

TWITCHELL I don’t know. CLARK Okay what was the combination to that lock?

TWITCHELL Uh thirty, eight, thirty. CLARK Who knew the combo?

TWITCHELL Uh me, Mike and Jay.

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Okay. And where did you buy that lock and uh the latch thing to put on there?

TWITCHELL Uh the latch thing I picked up from Home Depot. The lock itself was uh something I asked Mike to pick up uh with other materials for building so I don’t know where he got it originally. (Yawns) CLARK Now the lock that’s on there. When you went back when the police were there. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK What is that a combo lock too?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Or a key lock?

TWITCHELL No it’s a combo as well. CLARK Combo. What was it the same brand name or?

TWITCHELL Uh I don’t think so. Mine I don’t remember what the brand specifically was of mine, it’s just that the look and the style was different. Uh my original one was silver on the outside with black plastic dial in the center. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And this one that was uh on there when we went with the police was just all pure medal ever where. (Yawns) CLARK Okay you’re in the garage. Uh a guys in there uh how does the transaction go? In regards to buying the car. What do you do like?

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TWITCHELL Well at that point we’d already discussed terms basically you know how much money it was gonna be so I uh gave him the cash out of my wallet uh then he showed me the documentation trying to reassure me and uh and that was that was it first as far as what the transaction was. CLARK Do you not think that kinda strange? I mean I have to ask this, you’re payin’ forty dollars for a car how much did you think the car was worth? TWITCHELL Uh (Makes noise with mouth) I thought it was worth somewhere between three and four thousand. CLARK But you’re payin’ forty dollars for.

TWITCHELL Yeah so I mean yeah I wasn’t sure what to make of it (Stammers) didn’t know if the guy was crazy or you know what the deal was. Um he seemed to be pretty genuine about his story in terms of what he was saying. So uh I mean (Stammers) (Unintelligible) take him at his word or you know whatever. Um but I didn’t like I said I didn’t pull a whole lot of stock in it I didn’t get my hopes up about it or anything I just figured you know what well I’ll check into it. Um and so planned to of course check in with AMA see what was going on, see if there was any liens on it or if it had been report stolen or if any of that stuff was the case then I would just you know report it right away and get rid of it. CLARK Did you think it might be stolen?

TWITCHELL I wasn’t sure. It didn’t seem that way. It didn’t look like the car had been damaged in anyway. Uh the guy seemed to be put together pretty well in terms of the way he was presenting so-CLARK But you guys didn’t do a bill of sale up?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Didn’t you think that kinda strange? Page 42 of 89


TWITCHELL Uh actually I didn’t find out until after the fact that was a normal thing I never actually purchased or sold a used car before so. CLARK What you bought all your cars new or what?

TWITCHELL Yeah or through a dealership. CLARK You still get a bill of sale at a dealership.

TWITCHELL Well yeah (Laughs). CLARK But

TWITCHELL That’s true. CLARK I mean you get a bill of sale when you buy a house, you get a bill of sale come on you’re not a young sixteen year old kid here. I TWITCHELL Right. CLARK mean that seems a little strange to me.

TWITCHELL I understand. CLARK I’m being honest with you. Right?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK You don’t get a bill of sale you’re buying a car for forty bucks that’s work several thousand. You know TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK you don’t ask a lot of questions. It’s kind of

TWITCHELL Well CLARK willful blindness.

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TWITCHELL I guess. CLARK You know what that is?

TWITCHELL It’s just yeah I know optimism. Trying to hope for the best I guess. CLARK Mean… you don’t get a bill of sale how were you planning to register that thing? TWITCHELL Well I was under the impression that you could go to the AMA and get it registered if you had the VIN number and it all checked out. CLARK So after he leaves, how long is he in the garage for about?

TWITCHELL Uh… not too long, I’d say maybe again three four minutes. CLARK If you saw a picture of this guy again would you be able to identify him?

TWITCHELL I believe so yeah. CLARK Okay. Unfortunately in these things we just can’t throw you a single picture so we may have to put together a photo lineup. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK A whole bunch of people cuz it’s not if something turns out to be suspicious with this whole file if this guy does in fact turn out to be missing or foul play and we have to make sure we do a put all our eggs in a row do everything thing properly here. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK So the only picture we have is a single picture today so I can’t show you that tonight. TWITCHELL Okay.

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So what I may do is uh so once we get some more pictures our Ident guys are in during the week. We’ll get them to put together a photo lineup and we’ll probably

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK get you to take a look at one

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK of them okay.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK And see if we can identify this guy. I mean this this tattoo should stick out like a sore thumb. TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK So.

TWITCHELL I would think so. CLARK That’s uh one one way that will hopefully can help uh identify him. So after he’s gone what do you do then next? TWITCHELL Uh I go out the open garage door to get to my car. Take out the cleaning supplies. Bring them into the garage. Set them on the table the brown table that’s like a wood thing. And uh then I (Sighs) close the big garage door. Push the button by doing that it closes and then uh I leave out the pedestrian door. Put the padlock back on. Go around side the garage. Get back into my car. And uh… and then it just uh… it occurs to me that… I don’t really wanna… leave it there. And I’m not sure if it’s like you know just a like a feeling about security or what I just feel a little bit more comfortable about not having it in the garage. So uh… I mean I realize that the car was a manual transmission when I Page 45 of 89


was looking at it and making sure that it didn’t have like any drugs in the trunk or anything like that. Um… so I call my buddy… and I asked him uh do do you know how to drive a manual transmission car? And uh he goes yeah why. And I said well you know… some weirdest thing just happened I’m not gonna get my hopes up about it or anything like that but uh basically this is what went down I explained to Joss you know this guy hit me up after I got some gas that he wanted ta sell me this car and so I I told him that story and I said you know what is do you think it’ll be okay if we just park it at your house. And in in the mean time and then I can check in with the AMA and figure out what’s going on with it. And he goes uh yeah I’m sure that’ll be okay. So um I’m like alright well well are you right now he’s like I’m getting off work. Like okay well actually if if that’s the case do you wanna just meet me at the garage and uh you know we can we can just take it from here. And he goes yeah okay that’s fine. So… at that point get out of the car. Back into the garage. Wait for him. CLARK How long does it take him to get there?

TWITCHELL Uh it takes him… ten fifteen minutes. Cuz he was already on his way. CLARK Okay and then what happens when he gets there?

TWITCHELL Uh he gets there he looks at the car checks it out. Uh opens the door he looked at the uh the numbers on the inside of the door and stuff like that and was just kind of assessing the situation figuring it out and uh… was talking about the vehicle. He knew a little bit more about it than I did cuz I wasn’t familiar with imports as much and he was just saying well this is like you know (Stammers) Joss is a big guy he’s like six four I think. And uh he’s like this is like one of the only uh import (Laughs) hatchbacks that I can actually fit in. Um he’s like so I mean if if this does end up checking out and it’s not end up being like a stolen car or anything like that then you know I’d be interested in looking at getting it Page 46 of 89


from you. Um you know and so he’s making joke offers and stuff like that and uh… then uh… we just said okay well let’s let’s move it. So he gets in starts it. Backs it out of the garage. I close the big door. Go back to my car. We drive back to his house where he uh stores the vehicle. CLARK Okay how do you know Joss like how do you, how are you guys (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I meet him CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL (Sighs) over three years ago when I was first uh developing the Star Wars Project that I’m working on and uh he’s been really instrumental in helping that thing come to fruition and making that happen. He’s designed my website for me. Um… just known him a long time he’s a really good friend, hang out with him a lot. CLARK So he drives it over to his house?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Oh and does he live close by or what?

TWITCHELL Yeah. He lives uh just like a couple of blocks away it’s (Stammers) it’s like Fifty-three twenty-five Thirty-fifth Ave. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL So yeah. CLARK And what do you guys

TWITCHELL Like five blocks. CLARK do with the car there?

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TWITCHELL Uh at first he parks it on the street. And the uh… he contacts his dad and his dad suggests that he just move it up on ta the the driveway. Cuz it’s safer and more legal apparently to do that so he uh goes ahead and moves it to the driveway area. CLARK What happened with the license plates on that car?

TWITCHELL Uh I took off the plate he said something about how you need the plate in order to register it. So I went okay well I’ll keep that in mind. Uh so he unscrewed it, gave it to me. I put it uh into my duffel bag and uh… and then just left it in my car for the most part and then the thing is I’m always moving that bag in and out of the vehicle and moving stuff around and that kind of thing. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So… CLARK Where’s the plate now?

TWITCHELL I believe it’s still in the bag. CLARK Where’s the bag?

TWITCHELL Uh in my car. CLARK Okay so we’ll get that before you go.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK So what about the keys to the car? Who kept those? Where are they?

TWITCHELL I did. I’ve got’em. They’re also in my vehicle. CLARK In this vehicle here?

TWITCHELL Yeah. Page 48 of 89




TWITCHELL Or actually I think I might have them on me. Mm… Okay these are my keys. (Sighs) yeah I guess they’re in the car. CLARK In the car?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK So the uh… when you just goin’ back you checkin’ the documents there the insurance and registration you look at those documents? TWITCHELL Yeah uh I mean I kind of-CLARK And you have those documents or where are they?

TWITCHELL No they he kept ‘em. I (Stammers) I got the feeling like if I’m taking his insurance and registration documents that that’s kind of like a not something I should be doing. CLARK But you obviously looked at the name on there.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK What was the name on there?

TWITCHELL Uh I saw the first name. Mark. I didn’t really remember the last name. I think it started with a K but I’m not sure. CLARK Was that on the registration and insurance

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK or just-- That’s good uh good job going through that. Got me a few other little things out of there but. May or may not help. Um one other way that we can really glean more information from our witnesses is to

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get you just to like I just wanna back you up to the point of the car is at Joss’ house. And to take you backwards through this your story. TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK What that does is it you’re gonna surprise yourself and you’re gonna remember other little things that you probably just slipped your mind but you told me the the first time. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK So I just want you to go take me back from Joss’ house and take me back through to all the way to the the gas can we’ll say. Walk me through that backwards and tell me and I may write a few things down that you just remember that you you know you just sometimes it twigs a memory you know. And TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK uh it really helps in in… and it can help me and and you remember in certain specific details that maybe just slipped your mind the first time. TWITCHELL Backwards. CLARK Why don’t you start at

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Joss’ house and just kinda take me backwards from that.

TWITCHELL Hm. Okay. So (Sighs) what do you mean like just to say it like you know we’re at this point and then before that and then before that or? CLARK Yeah.


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Yeah exactly.

TWITCHELL Hm. Uh okay. Well I’m at Joss’ house and the car is parked there. Uh… we’ve already gone through it and checked it out um… can’t think if there’s anything else. Before that uh it was parked on the street. Before that we had driven it there from the garage. Before that we were in the garage. He was looking at the vehicle. Before that he had just arrived (Laughs) uh… okay so… sorry I’m just tired um… before that I was in the garage waiting for him. Before that I was in my car on the phone to him. Before that… I was back inside the garage. Uh… having just put the supplies down. Before that the guy who had sold the car to me… was in the garage and we were finishing up our conversation… before he left. And before that (Sighs) uh… sorry I’m just… I don’t know. CLARK Take your time.

TWITCHELL I’m okay. (Laughs) If it makes sense uh… before that I was looking at the documentation that he was showing me. And before that… was when I passed him the money. Before that he was in the car having just pulled it in. Before that he was outside just before I had the door open. Uh… before that I was around the other side of the garage having told him where I was going to go I was gonna go in the garage and open the door for him. (Sighs) And before that we were driving from point A to point B. He was following me to the driveway. Before that I was parked on the side of the street just before I took off to have him follow me. Before that he was standing at the vehicle. My vehicle. Finishing up the conversation. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Before that he was leaned over opening up the conversation. Before that was the window tap. Before that… was the end of my phone call.

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Before that was prior to me pulling over so I was still in motion. Before that I was at the gas station. Like how much further back do you want me to go? CLARK That’s good. Just up

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK to there. Uh that’s good then just a couple things I have written down to ask you. Um… you had mentioned… well you had a list of things to do that day on the fifteenth do you still have that list? TWITCHELL No I would’ve thrown it out by now. CLARK Okay. You had mentioned too that you had uh stopped at a coffee shop do you know which one that was? TWITCHELL Uh it was likely a Tim Horton’s. CLARK You don’t know where it is or

TWITCHELL No. CLARK which one? You’d also stated you shipped an item on eBay, that day. What did you ship? TWITCHELL Uh… if it was that day, it was a uh leather codpiece it’s a uh part of a Darth Vader costume. CLARK The the mask you mean?

TWITCHELL No the thing that goes under his belt. CLARK Oh what’s it called?

TWITCHELL It’s a codpiece.

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TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK As in the fish cod?

TWITCHELL Uh no as in like cover your crotch cod (Laughs). CLARK Well I know that but is that how you spell it?

TWITCHELL (Laughs) yeah. CLARK Do you sell a lot of stuff on eBay?

TWITCHELL Uh not a ton. CLARK Oh.

TWITCHELL Once in a while. I’ve got some props left over from the movie that I’m trying to unload cuz they’re taking up space. CLARK Okay. When you um like is this your whole income the movie thing?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Like that’s what kind of money are you makin’ at that?

TWITCHELL Oh it’s pretty decent. I’m uh (Stammers) well I’m kinda taking my own salary out of uh my investor money. Which is like I sell equity in the film in order to get that. CLARK Right.

TWITCHELL So I’m trying to keep it uh to a minimum until the actual full budget comes through and then its producer fees at that point. So right now it’s about four to five thousand a month. And uh and then after the

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producer fees come through it’ll be ten percent of the total budget of the film which is three hundred and fifty thousand. CLARK And does your wife work or anything?

TWITCHELL Uh she’s on Mat Leave right now. She works for the Workers Compensation Board, she’s been on Mat Leave since January. Well actually even a couple of months before that I think she started taking it early. And she comes off of it uh December January again. It’s a one year. CLARK What’s your wife’s name?


TWITCHELL J.E.S.S. CLARK What about your your child what’s the child’s name?


TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK That’s different.

TWITCHELL Hm. CLARK Little girl then?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK First one?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. Page 54 of 89



Mm. Man that’s tiring.

TWITCHELL (Laughs) CLARK That’s… I got three boys I (Laughs).

TWITCHELL Oh. We got super lucky CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL cuz she’s been sleeping through the night since her third week. CLARK Oh yeah you’re lucky.

TWITCHELL So (Laughs) yeah. CLARK You gotta like that. I’ll just check here are there any other questions. Oh your car. When you’re mention uh uh it was broken into. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Remember back I think it was October eighth.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK You mentioned that you were going to uh with Josh was it Josh?


TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK to uh a concert or you were going to watch some show or something?

TWITCHELL Yeah it was a an evening with Kevin Smith. CLARK Where was that at?

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TWITCHELL So that was at the Winspear Centre. CLARK Oh okay. And who’s Kevin I don’t know who Kevin Smith is.

TWITCHELL Uh Kevin Smith’s a movie director he did like (Unintelligible) and Mall Rats and a bunch of other cult classics. CLARK Oh I see.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK And what does he do just talk about ‘em is that?

TWITCHELL Uh well it’s basically a Q and A, people line up uh at a microphone and uh ask him questions. And he answers them at length with a lot of uh colorful story telling. CLARK Okay. How how did your car get broken into?

TWITCHELL (Yawns) uh well I went to park at the Southgate Mall to meet Joss and then he (Stammers) came and picked me up and we went in his car cuz we figured one cars a lot easier to park downtown. Uh the show went from about eight till eleven-thirty they kick him off at eleven-thirty and then took us another half hour to get back so. We were back in the parking lot at uh at midnight. (Makes noise with mouth) and CLARK I mean how did how did they get into the car? How did they get into your car? TWITCHELL Oh. CLARK How did they actually break into it?

TWITCHELL Uh I’m not sure. Uh when I when I got to the vehicle it was uh already unlocked so I mean if I had to guess I would say going in through the window. Like that thing where you try to you know

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The metal

TWITCHELL put something CLARK shim?


TWITCHELL The thing. So CLARK But there was no broken window or you didn’t leave any windows down?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Okay. And um where were you parked in on the mall? In the mall. Like where what (Unintelligible) TWITCHELL That was like uh the southern most parking lot outside the Bay. CLARK Like far away from the Bay or?

TWITCHELL Uh it’s three quarters of the way through the parking lot away. CLARK And that’s the red Grand Am?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK And this uh oil drum. You mentioned you bought. Who’d you buy that from? TWITCHELL Uh let see if I can remember the manufacturer. Cuz they… uh I can’t remember the name of the site. CLARK They delivered though?

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TWITCHELL Yeah. Well they it wasn’t them personally that delivered it. They hired a courier company to deliver it. CLARK Okay. Do you know who it was delivered by?

TWITCHELL The only name that I can think of comes to mind is Durrell (Phonetic). CLARK What’d that cost you?

TWITCHELL Uh total was like sixty bucks. CLARK And when was that bought? Or delivered? Bought and delivered?

TWITCHELL Uh (Sighs). Ss- think it was sometime in the first week of October. I was trying to uh get it in time for the shoot cuz I knew it would be useful a lot more useful as a garbage can during the shoot than after but. They messed up the delivery like three times. They kept saying they were gonna be when they weren’t showing up and stuff like that so I finally just said okay well give me a call when you guys uh are get like an hour away from going and then I’ll meet ‘cha there and I don’t remember what day it was that I actually met them and took delivery. CLARK Oh but it was after the shoot.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. The um oh (Stammers) what’s your uh email address?

TWITCHELL (Yawns) uh express with no E on the front. Dot director. At Gmail dot com. CLARK Do you have any other ones? Do you have a home or (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I gotta personal one that’s collecting a whole hell of a lot of spam that I’m trying not to use as much. That ones uh K.I.T.F.I.S.T.O. zero zero seven. At Gmail dot com.

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TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK What’s that stand for?

TWITCHELL Uh it’s a name of a character from Attack of the Clones. CLARK From which one?

TWITCHELL From uh Attack of the Clones. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL It’s a green dude smiles a lot. CLARK (Laughs) Can’t say I saw that one.

TWITCHELL (Laughs) CLARK Uh when this guy talked about uh you had mentioned he shacked up with a really rich lady. Did he say anything more about her or about this woman a name anything like that? TWITCHELL No he didn’t say a name. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Didn’t uh… I don’t think he specified really how long they’d been together either. It sounded like it was something that was somewhat new. But uh he was obviously comfortable with so… maybe not crazy new I mean if I just had to guess based on the his basic use of words then I’d say a couple of months. CLARK Alright let me just go check with my partner here I’ll see if uh if we’ve covered off everything and uh we’ll get ‘cha outta here.

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TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Alright. Do you need water or anything?

TWITCHELL No I’m alright. CLARK Okay. (Door opens and closes)

Elapsed time 01:30:47 Elapsed time 01:34:47 TWITCHELL Hey. So uh what? Well (Laughs) I uh tried to uh answer some more of their questions and fill them in and everything like that and now like it turns that the the car is in fact uh belonging to this missing guy and that it’s a huge deal so that’s what this whole things about. I’m going through this whole uh additional Q and A with a detective and stuff like that. And I just got your messages two seconds ago. Uh the last time that I talked to him he just left the room he said that uh he’s just gonna confer with his partner and then I’ll be free to go. What? Okay. Uh nope just more detailed. Eh not really. Yeah. I’m worried you know it’s just uh… (Sighs) it’s a big mess and I just… No. My problem is that I’m so tired and it’s so hard to remember things it’s so hard to remember like these minute specific details about these days that I just didn’t ever bother to think about or remember because who the hell does that you know. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Alright. Yup. Bye. Elapsed time 01:36:54 Elapsed time 02:06:54 CLARK (Door opens) Sorry Mark just need to clear up a couple things here.

TWITCHELL ‘Kay. (Door closes)

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We’re gonna be sending uh our uh Ident guys the crime scene guys over to the garage there just to go through it. Just standard stuff but where did you put the supplies when you dropped them off? Describe that to me

TWITCHELL All I (Stammers) CLARK in the garage.

TWITCHELL there’s a brown wooden table by the pedestrian door. CLARK Mm hm. And they all went on this table or what?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. Yeah. CLARK And what what describe to me what you put there.

TWITCHELL There was a pack of uh paper towels. CLARK And how are they packaged? Like what what do you mean by paper towels? TWITCHELL CLARK Like a six pack. Oh the round ones the

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK ones… okay. ‘Kay. What else?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) bottle of standard stain remover cleaner. Grey. CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Uh’s a pack of gloves. CLARK Sorry the stain remover was in a bottle like a glass bottle plastic bottle

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TWITCHELL No is a plastic grey bottle thing. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL When we went there it looked like the lid was on it so I wasn’t sure if it had been used or not but-CLARK Okay and sorry plastic gloves?

TWITCHELL Uh yeah one pair (Sighs) of regular you know normal… grey plastic gloves. CLARK Oh just in one, one pair in one package?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Okay. Mm hm. Anything else?

TWITCHELL Um… had a roll of uh plastic sheeting. We use it for backdrops to catch all the corn syrup so it doesn’t get everywhere. CLARK Okay. Anything else?

TWITCHELL Uh don’t think so can’t remember (Overtalk) CLARK Well you’d mentioned uh garbage bags.

TWITCHELL Yeah I had garbage bags in there previously. CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Uh we used some of ‘em to block out the windows so that the light wouldn’t get inside when we didn’t want it to. Um and uh I used a couple of ‘em for the garbage purposes but uh… it seemed like there was a lot more gone when we checked. When we went in there with the police it seemed like all but like half of one of the two rolls that were in the box was missing. Page 62 of 89




TWITCHELL And so I know I didn’t use that many good Lord. CLARK Alright. Um you mentioned that was on the fifteenth all the supplies were dropped off. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Did you use any of the supplies yourself?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Alright. Go back the day before, the fourteenth.

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Tuesday. Election day.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK Do you remember votin’?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Did you vote?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Okay can you tell me uh just briefly where you were on election day uh--

TWITCHELL Election day. CLARK Last Tuesday.

TWITCHELL I don’t remember. I remember in the evening being at home but… (Sighs). CLARK What time you at home? Page 63 of 89


TWITCHELL Tuesday… uh I don’t know I can’t think. Uh I don’t remember. CLARK Were you home all evening on election night or what? Watch the results on the news perhaps? TWITCHELL Yeah I think so. I think it was uh no I have a tough time (Stammers) cuz I’m tired I can’t think of it. CLARK Well it’s the night before you bought the vehicle.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK It’s only five days ago.

TWITCHELL Tuesday. It was after holiday Monday. Yeah I don’t know. CLARK Okay. So Mark what do you think happened to this John Alt- ALTINGER guy? TWITCHELL I have no idea. CLARK Do you think somebody has done something to harm him?

TWITCHELL I I don’t know. CLARK Do you think he’s really missing?

TWITCHELL Uh it sounds like it. It sounds like people are taking it seriously. CLARK How do you think the results of this investigation are gonna come out on you? TWITCHELL Well positively I would think. I’ve been trying to tell you guys everything that I know. CLARK Okay. What do you think should happen to the person if there’s been harm done to John ALTINGER?

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TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh I don’t know I mean I guess it depends on what we’re talkin’ about. CLARK Well what if we find out there’s been foul play and he’s been murdered? What do you think should happen to the person? TWITCHELL They should go to jail. CLARK Do you think if there’s been foul play to John that the person who did this to him deserves a second chance under any circumstances? TWITCHELL Uh I would say no. CLARK Mark did you have any involvement in the disappearance of John?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK None whatsoever?

TWITCHELL No. CLARK Absolutely positive on that?

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Okay. They’re just uh talkin’ to Josh and I just uh one of the other guys had a couple of questions there that uh he’s just clearing up with him there. And I’ll just see what’s happenin’ with that and I’ll come in and talk to you we’ll finish this TWITCHELL Uh CLARK up. Okay.

TWITCHELL Okay. Well what’s goin’ on do you know or?

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Yeah that’s what I’m gonna find out right now. (Door opens) I’ll be right back.

TWITCHELL (Sighs) (Door closes) Elapsed time 02:13:54 Elapsed time 02:35:19 CLARK (Door opens) Mark you remember I mentioned to you earlier (Door closes) about uh contacting a lawyer TWITCHELL Uh huh. CLARK that still holds true okay just so you’re aware.

TWITCHELL Okay. CLARK If at any time we’re talkin’ you wanna contact a lawyer you can do so at any time I’ll take you to a phone. There’s something else I wanna tell you Mark and that’s that there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that you’re involved in the disappearance of John ALTINGER. No doubt in my mind at all Mark. TWITCHELL Uh why? CLARK As I said Mark there’s no doubt in my mind that you’re involved

TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK In this disappearance. I just wanna get to the bottom of this. Because this is not gonna go away. It’s not gonna leave you Mark. TWITCHELL I don’t understand. CLARK I’m gonna explain some of the reasons to you. But you do understand cuz you know what I’m talkin’ about. You’re involved in this and Page 66 of 89


unfortunately something got carried away. Something got carried away with this guy. I mean talkin’ to you here tonight you seem like a decent guy. And I think that somethin’ happened that night that maybe you just didn’t have total control of. And I’m here to get to the bottom of it. Because it’s not gonna go away. This is gonna stay with you and we need to clear this up here and now we need to clear this up tonight. You need to tell me the truth about what’s goin’ on. What happened. With this fellah. I mean if this happened because of of the movie thing… something that went too far. TWITCHELL No. I have no idea what the hell’s going on. CLARK You do have an idea. You have a very good idea Mark about what’s goin’ on. You know exactly what happened there that night. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK I mean you haven’t told us the truth. You haven’t told us anything close to the truth. You do understand we’ve talked to Joss. We’ve got his side of the story. All I’m lookin’ for is your side of the story. But the truth. Not what you’ve been tellin’ me. Cuz that what you’ve been telling me hasn’t been the truth. Has it Mark? TWITCHELL This can’t be I don’t (Sighs)… (Sighs). CLARK What do you mean it can’t be?

TWITCHELL I just don’t understand. CLARK Well what don’t you understand? We have a fellah who’s missing. We know he’s been to your garage. We’ve talked to all the neighbors now. You know… the neighbors saw you changing the lock. About a week, week and a half ago. Neighbors watch. They see all these things. Little things that you don’t realize. Okay. We know the lock was changed.

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Long before the fifteenth. Yet when you get there on the fifteenth, you tell me well that’s your lock on there on the fifteenth. It’s not till you go back with the policeman… last night that you notice or you say. So that’s a lie, that’s a lie you told me. When you gave your version of events to Detective TABLER last night, your version of events was different than what you told me today. What you wrote down was different than what you told me in this room. What you told me in this room when I first came in was different from your final version of events. You’ve changed your whole story. All kinds of different lies. Now I know this isn’t an easy thing to live with. Somethin’ went wrong there. Like I said I don’t think you’re a bad guy you seem like a decent guy. You gotta wife. You gotta small child. You’re tryin’ to do the best. I don’t think you know I don’t know but I don’t think you’re doin’ that well financially. I think it’s a tough life what you’re in. You’re trying to do your best but something went wrong. Maybe you were just trying to make a better movie, I don’t know. But something went wrong and you’re involved. And this is not gonna go away Mark. And you know that you’re not a dumb guy. You know it’s not gonna go away. This is gonna keep on eatin’ at you and eatin’ at you. TWITCHELL I just feel like I’m in the fuckin’ twilight zone right now. CLARK And why do you feel you’re in the twilight zone? We need to get to the truth about what happened with John ALTINGER. And I know you know that truth. You are definitely not a dumb man. You know very well that you don’t buy a car that’s worth over ten thousand dollars from someone for forty dollars. You know that. You know that you get a bill of sale. You deal with items on eBay. You sell items all the time. Just like goin’ to the store and buying anything. That part of your story is just it’s just lie after lie after lie. And it’s time to end those lies Mark. I mean your your version about the gas. Your first version to to Mike TABLER you’re leavin’. You’re leavin’ the garage. Goin’ to get gas. Then he Page 68 of 89


approaches you. Now in your version today no you got gas before. But you’re reason for having gas doesn’t even make sense. You’re buyin’ gas for a lawn mower you don’t own. You’re buyin’ gas just to keep in your car. No you’re buyin’ gas to get rid of things. You shake your head but you know what I’m sayin’ is true. Specifically do you remember talkin’ to the constable last night? Specifically you talked to the constable last night he specifically asked you three or four times, do you remember seeing a red car. Any time around your garage anything. No officer I don’t remember anything about a red car. Yet now TWITCHELL I don’t remember those questions. CLARK and you never mention that to Detective TABLER. Not once do you mention a red car. Or buying a car off an individual you didn’t know for forty dollars. While he’s asking you about the disappearance of a guy who’s seen at your garage. And it’s obvious why you didn’t mention it, because you had something to do with his disappearance. I mean there’s no doubt about that Mark. I mean you hh- you have a barrel in your garage… a barrel you say you buy for garbage. Everyone knows in the movie industry those are (Stammers) known as burn barrels. We got that off your own friends. They’re the ones telling us this. Your coworkers. What happened to John Mark? What’d you do with him? TWITCHELL (Expels breath loudly) Wrong tree. CLARK Wrong dream?

TWITCHELL No tree. CLARK Wrong tree?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK And what do you mean by that?

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TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK What do you mean by that Mark?

TWITCHELL I’m done. CLARK What do you mean you’re done?

TWITCHELL I’m mean I’m just not talkin’ anymore this is ridiculous. CLARK Well what is your explanation? You haven’t answered any of the questions. If you didn’t do anything wrong why wouldn’t you answer those questions? Do you know why? Mark… both you and I know the answer. Cuz you’re involved. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK You have the license plates… to his vehicle in your car. You have the keys to his vehicle in your car. And this guys missing and you have his car. Like you need to accept the fact here Mark that your life has now changed. Cuz like I said before this is never ever gonna go away. I mean I have to wonder what’s goin’ on in your life that get you involved in something like this. You must either be havin’ tough times at home or tough times financially or something. So what’s gonna happen when these neighbors pick your picture out as the guy changin’ the locks on that garage? After you told me you didn’t know anything about those locks. What’s gonna happen then Mark? What’s gonna happen with your wife and child now? What are they gonna do? What happened to John Mark? Was this your plan or was this somebody else’s? Somebody else put you up to this? Do you not have any answers Mark? Why not? I’m telling you that you’re involved in this disappearance and you sit there and say nothing. Shocks me. You do understand these things don’t go away like we… this is gonna stay with you the rest of your life. Do you understand that? Like I look at you I I see you sittin’ here I’ve talked to Page 70 of 89


you for several hours now… and I… I just can’t figure out the why. (Stammers) what drove you to this is there something goin’ on obviously there’s something goin’ on behind the scenes that I don’t know about. Cuz you seem like a decent guy that (Stammers) gonna go have a beer with. That’s the type of guy you come across as. Yet you’re involved over your head in this. TWITCHELL Is anything that you’re saying genuine or is this some sort of tactic? CLARK You gotta get away from the acting part Mark. And listen to what I’m sayin’. You have told me nothin’ but lies. An innocent man does not come in here and tell lies. That’s genuine Mark. Everything I’m tellin’ you in here is genuine. So get outta your film producer mode and the façade of thinkin’ that everyone’s an actor. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK Cuz this is real life. Alright. Real life. If you were telling me the truth you would have one story. One story that would flow from beginning to end. And you could repeat that one hundred times. With no changes in the story. Yours is so bad. How do you explain the neighbors? The neighbors see that car there before the fifteenth of October. Why would that car be at your garage before the fifteenth of October? You conveniently can’t remember where you were on the fourteenth of October. TWITCHELL Nothing convenient about it. It’s just actually fact despite anything that’s been goin’ on I really cannot… CLARK You cannot what?

TWITCHELL Remember. CLARK Remember what?

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TWITCHELL About the fourteenth. CLARK So you can’t remember about the fourteenth. Why did you lie about the fifteenth? What is your explanation for providing me basically different versions of what happened on the fifteenth? TWITCHELL Am I being charged? CLARK Not yet.

TWITCHELL Am I free to go? CLARK Yup.

TWITCHELL Then I will. CLARK Okay. We’re seizin’ your car. So you won’t be getting it back. We’ll be getting a search warrant to go through the car. Forensic examination. Okay. As soon as we’re done interviewing everybody else, you will uh we’ll be coming back to charge you. It’s just a matter of time. Alright. Do you have any questions about any of that? Do you wanna clear anything up now so I don’t have to keep comin’ after you? TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK Any questions about anything Mark?

TWITCHELL Hm. CLARK You know pretty well everything’s over for you now. You can’t worry about (Stammers) what your wife and your family’s gonna think. Cuz this isn’t goin’ away. You have to get past that. Are you that cold a person Mark that you can live with this the rest of your life? Doesn’t bother you at all? TWITCHELL What what does that mean?

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Well you’re involved in this disappearance of this guy.

TWITCHELL Ll- but (Stammers) live with it what do you mean? CLARK Well what you did to him. You can live with that? That’s what I mean. You can live with that what’s happened to him. I mean only you know what’s happened to him. I’ll find that out eventually. It’s gonna take me a little time I just got involved in this case today. But it’s so obvious you’re involved Mark it’s… like you’re not a very good actor. And you’re in the business. TWITCHELL I never said I was an actor. CLARK Producer. You’ve seen actors. You’re not good at it at all. You’re a very very poor liar. But I mean how do you go home at night… livin’ with yourself for what you’ve done to this guy. How do you explain that to your wife? Your child’s not eight months so you don’t have to explain it to her, she won’t even know what’s goin’ on. Like it’s gonna eat at you. If you’re a normal person it’s gonna eat at you. If you’re that cold and callous which I don’t think you are… you don’t strike me as that type of person. Now if somethin’ went wrong in that garage that day then you need to tell me that. If somethin’ went wrong that was outta your control this is your chance to tell it. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK You know this is your chance to say hey… Detective… yeah somethin’ went wrong. Things got outta control. Somethin’ happened there that I didn’t wanna happen. This is your chance. You know I don’t know much about this John guy. I’m slowly finding out things. But somethin’ went wrong when he came over to that garage when you were there. This is your chance to tell me. I mean if you guys got into an argument over something I don’t know what. And things got carried away. So be it we

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can deal with that. But you have to let me know that. You know I don’t know if he came over there with somebody else or… was gettin’ stupid or was trying to pull stuff on you. I don’t know. I know this guy’s a bit of a weirdo. I know he’s into different things that uh the average person isn’t in to. You know and maybe he tried something I don’t know. I don’t know exactly what happened. What I do know… is that you’re involved. And you know that. It’s obvious. It’s obvious by your whole demeanor. And like I said it’s not goin’ away. It’s just startin’ to build. TWITCHELL I understand what you’re sayin’. CLARK Well you understand it but… you don’t have an explanation for it. Why is it Mark you don’t have an explanation. TWITCHELL Fear. CLARK Pardon me? I didn’t hear you. I mean I know it’s tough. You know I I I don’t much about TWITCHELL (Stammers) Ss-CLARK your life but…

TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK you know is this something that you tried to avoid and you just couldn’t?

TWITCHELL What do you mean? CLARK Well I don’t know did he try somethin’ in there? Did he try somethin’ you’re just defending yourself? I don’t know. You were the one that was there. TWITCHELL That’s a really weird comment that you made. CLARK Pardon me?

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TWITCHELL It’s a very weird comment you made. CLARK Which comment is that?

TWITCHELL A valid… (Sighs) CLARK Which comment was that Mark? I’m not trying to be (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL (Unintelligible) CLARK the bad guy here Mark.

TWITCHELL Can’t help but feel like that’s a… tactic I just feel like everything’s is a tactic for you now. CLARK Why do you think that? When you know what I’ve told you in this room is the truth. So how do you how do you say that a tactic TWITCHELL I I just… I know we’re not sitting in a movie but it’s the cop thing. CLARK This is real life stuff. You gotta get away from the movies.

TWITCHELL Yeah I know. CLARK That’s the problem here. All I’m here for is get the truth. That’s my job. There’s two sides to every story. I know (Stammers) I know why John went to the garage. I know a little bit about his background and what he’s in to. Not very pretty. TWITCHELL What’s that mean? CLARK Well I’m not gonna go into all that cuz that’s that’s not stuff that you need to know. But let’s just say he’s got some skeletons in his closet. And I know that he could’ve done something there to to provoke things. To cause trouble. And if he did and something happened because of his provoking or provocation there. Then what I’m telling you is this is your

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chance to get it out. Somethin’ happened there between the two of you. Then you need to let me know now. Was it just the two of you in the garage or did he come with someone else? Mark. TWITCHELL I think the guy uh (Sighs) oh (Sighs) I need some time. I need to be able to sleep. CLARK This isn’t gonna go away while you sleep Mark.

TWITCHELL I know. CLARK That’s the problem. Something happened there. Both you and I know it. And time isn’t gonna make it go away. It’s time for you to step up to the plate. Tell me what happened to John. Tell me where he is. So we can do the decent thing and… not only for him but for his family. And for your own wellbeing. You’re not gonna be able to live with yourself with this for the rest of your life. TWITCHELL You’d surprised what I can live with. CLARK It’s gonna eat at you and eat at you. It’s gonna affect your family cuz it’s affecting you. What’s gonna happen with your daughter? I know that’s weighin’ on your mind. I know it’s weighin’ on your mind about your wife. How would you describe your marriage? Is it good? TWITCHELL Everything is goin’ fantastic. CLARK Everything (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL I’m gonna check to see if she left me another message. She was worried yesterday and couldn’t sleep at all and even tonight she had to take a… Unisol (Phonetic) to try to get to sleep and then when I didn’t come home she… had started callin’ again. CLARK Well she’s worried about you.

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TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK But this isn’t gonna end. You know I had a family, I had a relative of mine, was murdered. Back in Nineteen ninety-seven. Whitehorse, Yukon. My wife’s sister was murdered. By her husband, family thing. Not like this. TWITCHELL Are you serious. CLARK Serious it was actually made national news. Was a big thing about the the defense of provocation. Guys name was Ralph KLASSEN. That was my brother-in-law at the time. And he strangled her, strangled his wife which is my wife’s sister. In bed. They were separated. Come home and thought she was fooling around and he was out to lunch. There was no fooling around goin’ on. None at all. And he strangled her with his hands. So hard that he actually sprained his two thumbs. And what happened was he leaves a note in the house saying that he couldn’t live with himself and he was gonna end his own life. I don’t know if you’ve ever been Whitehorse but he drove up by I I wasn’t up there myself, my wife went up for the trial with her sisters but… he uh he drives up on a hill in his um little Datsun B two ten truck. And his plan was, they found out this later from talkin’ to him, that’s how we know. But his plan was to drive head on into one of the iron ore trucks that work at the mines up there. So he waited and waited he said. This is what he’s tellin’ the Mounties later. And uh no iron ore truck came along so a propane tanker was comin’ down the highway. So he drives down the hill, he smashes head on propane tanker and just before he hits it he ducks. And if you can believe it he ends up with a broken toe. That was his whole injuries from this accident. The truck drive ends up breaking his back so bad that he can’t work anymore. He’s not crippled but he can’t work anymore. Never ends up working again I guess. And they take my brother-in-law to hospital and at the hospital he tells the nurse that he

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did something to his wife. So they uh send the Mounties over there. And they find her in bed. And then they come back and they end up of course charging him. Charged him with second degree murder. He got convicted of manslaughter and his defense was provocation. That he was provoked into it. That’s kind of my point here is that he’s saying he’s provoked. That’s his wife. There was no pro- provocation at all it was a jo- joke defense in my mind. My wife sat through two weeks of the trial with her sisters up there. Couldn’t believe it absolutely devastated the family. And he got a whole five years in jail. That’s what he got. He served I think two and a half total. I never did find out what happened to him. Out at uh Williamshead Penitentiary in B.C. Which is on Vancouver Island. Fricken’ golf course on there, they’ve got a par three golf course. And they’re live in like condos. Systems a joke. TWITCHELL Wait who lives in condos? CLARK The prisoners at Williamshead Penitentiary they live in like condo complexes. Not even cells. TWITCHELL So… CLARK But the point is is that he raised the defense of provocation. And if that’s what’s happened in this case and that’s what I’m telling you you need to tell me. If you were provoked some way or it was some sort of incident that arose. Then now’s the time. The only thing I give my brother-in-law credit for was he did step up to the plate. He did tell ‘em what happened. I mean something obviously went on between the two of you. Mark. Something went on between you and John. And I don’t think it happened on the fifteenth. It happened before that. It’s not gonna be easy livin’ with this Mark. Not gonna be easy for anybody. Wasn’t easy for us. Family was devastated. It’s gonna happen. Those are the facts. Those are things you can’t change. You can’t change now that this has happened but we also can’t go back. We can’t go back and Page 78 of 89


take that day back when all this happened. But we can do the right thing. And the right thing is telling me the truth about what happened that night. What happened between the two of you. Somethin’ went wrong. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK What went wrong that day Mark? This guy come over there uninvited? What happened? Tell me somethin’ Mark do you really think this is gonna go away? You know (Stammers) you don’t think that cuz you’re not a stupid guy. TWITCHELL Oh (Sighs) CLARK So what can we do to get to the bottom of this Mark? Was this an accident? How did it happen Mark? I kinda think this has happened spur of the moment. Cuz you didn’t really do a lot of thinkin’ about afterwards. Which tells me that it happened… by spur of the moment or by accident. Somethin’ like that. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK It tells me you didn’t wanna do it on purpose. If that’s the case Mark this is the time to tell me. TWITCHELL As opposed to what other time? CLARK No there is gonna… there’s not gonna be another time. I’m just tellin’ you and I keep tellin’ you and you know it you’ve agreed with me that it’s not gonna go away. TWITCHELL (Groans) Oh. (Sighs) CLARK And you know it’s not gonna go away Mark.

TWITCHELL What time did you wake up today? Page 79 of 89




TWITCHELL Well I mean not today I guess yesterday. CLARK Early.

TWITCHELL Is the adrenaline keepin’ you going? CLARK TWITCHELL CLARK No. I’m tired too. I feel like that’s all that I’m on right now. Mm. So let’s get to the truth. And then we can end this. The problem is you don’t wanna tell me the truth. Why don’t you wanna tell me the truth? Can you answer that question Mark? Why can’t you give me your version of events that night? TWITCHELL Cuz I’m scared. (Stammers) I always have this instinct to wanna be able to try to hold on to… I don’t even know what. CLARK I can imagine you’re scared that’s a perfectly natural feeling at this time. But things happen there Mark between you and John. And I don’t think he can speak for himself anymore. You’re the only one that can tell us what happened that night. What’s goin’ through your mind right now Mark? TWITCHELL Almost nothing. Anything I try to push out is like… what’s it like… it’s like skating uphill. This this tired trying to formulate thought anymore. CLARK I don’t think you need to formulate thought what I think you need to formulate is the truth. There’s two sides to every story. TWITCHELL Yeah but stories come with questions and more answers and more stories.

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Well stories come with facts and truth. There won’t be many questions. People make mistakes. It happens every day. Some mistakes are bigger than others. But life goes on and we deal with those mistakes.

TWITCHELL Well… I guess my marriage is over so I don’t really have to worry about protecting her anymore. CLARK Your daughter will be taken care of.

TWITCHELL Yeah. CLARK Your wife’s here, your mother and father. Your parents are in Edmonton are they not? TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK She’ll be looked after. I can see this is eating you up. There somethin’ went wrong there Mark. Tell me what went wrong. You know deep down Mark that everything I’ve told you in this room has been a fact. Has been the truth. I haven’t tried to baffle you with bullshit on anything. TWITCHELL Again you know what I mean you say that but part of me is always gonna wonder. CLARK That’s cuz you watch too much TV. We all do I guess.

TWITCHELL Well I I think I understand the difference uh-CLARK The bottom line though is I’m just here to get the truth. And the truth isn’t always pleasant I know that. I mean this wasn’t somebody you knew. You were not close to this fellah. You didn’t know what he was like. Not a family member. I just don’t know what set, set it off. Cuz your demeanor is, appears to be so calm. So rationale. Like what set it

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off that night to set these things in motion? What happened between you and John Mark? TWITCHELL Uh I can’t even get there right now. Right now I’m thinking about… immediate needs like… CLARK What are those immediate needs?

TWITCHELL Uh contact lenses are gonna burn a hole in my head in a couple of hours. Um… I gonna wanna get to the finish line but at the same time… I think uh-CLARK Well I think we should get to the finish line.

TWITCHELL Consulting with a lawyer is gonna be really important. CLARK You can do that at any time you want. I told you that right from the start. TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK You know exactly why you’re here. Cuz John’s gone missing. The reason you’re sittin’… is you’re the guy that made him go missing. I’m just trying to find out the why behind it. Why this happened what… what turned it to make you do something like this. There’s obviously gotta be other factors involved. How long have you been married Mark? TWITCHELL Almost two years. This time. CLARK How long were you married the first time.

TWITCHELL Four. Looks like I’ll become the stistick (Phonetic). Didn’t expect that. CLARK Why? I think you’re already were a statistic when you were divorced the first time. Right?

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TWITCHELL Well something’s you just gotta do because you realize that your ultimate decision leads to what’s gonna end up when your long term happiness and you can’t just… feel obligated to how other people are gonna think about it. CLARK Don’t you think that applies here too? Long term happiness. I think it applies. Yeah it seems like the end of the word now. TWITCHELL We’re not that important. CLARK I think we are.

TWITCHELL That’s gonna get real deep and philosophical so I won’t even go there. Um-CLARK Yeah I’m not a big philosophical guy either. I work more on facts and truth. And I know I’m not dealin’ with a dumb individual here. But somethin’ went wrong there. And you can fill that in. It’s not easy Mark I know. But how does your life go on if… if we don’t clear this up. How do you ever begin to rebuild it again? TWITCHELL I think something like that’s even possible. CLARK Oh of course I do. Happens all the time. I see it all the time I used to work at Edmonton Max. I was the liaison guy out there. So I’d do all the investigations out at Edmonton Institution. Dealt with all the hardcore convicts guys that were in there for way worse than than this like I’m talkin’ guys that have done mass murders. Multiple killings. Killing family members. Planned executions. TWITCHELL (Makes noise with mouth) CLARK They accepted their punishment they’re doin’ their time. But those guys they’re a different breed they’re not you. Those guys… very very few if I can I can’t even think of one at the Max, maybe in other Page 83 of 89


institutions, they’re the hardcore of the hardcore they’re the ones that have no remorse. They don’t care. TWITCHELL Huh. CLARK It’s like they’re they’re missing something I don’t know if they were born with something missing or what. But they don’t have that remorse, I call it like a remorse syndrome they don’t have it. They don’t have a conscience. They don’t care about anybody. To them… killing somebody means nothing. I mean those are the worst or the worst. Those are the ones you’re dealin’ with out there all the time. That’s not you. You’re not that type of person. I’ve talked to you long enough in here the last several hours to know that. Those guys show no emotion over anything. They’re cold. That’s not you. Everything’s runnin’ through your head right now. And rightly so. It’s not an easy thing I know you’d love to go back and take back that day but you can’t. You know you can’t do that. What’s done is done. But you can move on from here and yeah it’s not easy. Of course not. It’s not gonna be easy. But it’s also not the end it’s not the end of your life. It’s not the end of (Stammers) of your family’s life. I’m sure you’re still gonna wanna see your daughter one day. You made a mistake. TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK But in order to get past that I need you to explain to me what happened. What happened to make you make that mistake? What started this all off? Your car break-in had nothing to do with this. I don’t believe your car was even broken in to. You realized you made a mistake. Things got carried away. Somethin’ happened to John. And you panicked. You didn’t know what to do and you made up a story. TWITCHELL (Makes noise with mouth)

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I mean the irony of this is you could probably make a movie out of this one day. There’s an irony. That’s probably never been done. Something like this happens you write a script and make a movie. Probably never been done. But things are gonna change for you now and you know that. And I think this has been eating at you since it happened. It’s probably been wreaking havoc on your home life too.

TWITCHELL Do you have any idea what it’s like living with constant apprehension? CLARK I can’t say that I do.

TWITCHELL I’d like to not feel that anymore. (Sighs) CLARK Well this is your chance to get rid of that feeling.

TWITCHELL Oh but it brings on a whole new type. CLARK Well sure it does. (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL It’s a-CLARK Sure it does.

TWITCHELL Wh- (Stammers) okay what’s the steps in uh getting a lawyer cuz I don’t have one. CLARK I just take you outta this room to a phone and you can call.

TWITCHELL Is it like… delayed I mean well-CLARK There’s phone number there. There’s phone book. Take you to a phone you can call. There’s phone books there. There’s a Legal Aid number on the wall. TWITCHELL Mm.

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They’ll provide you any legal advice you want. Take you out anytime. If you want to call any specific lawyer you know there’s white and yellow pages there. That apprehension you’re feeling how long have you been feeling that?

TWITCHELL Any longer than two minutes is too long. Uh… okay let’s see… CLARK Has it been goin’ on since this happened?

TWITCHELL I need… CLARK Was it goin’ on before? Would you feel more comfortable writing down what happened? TWITCHELL Uh I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe not. It’s been a… hm… CLARK I mean you can write out what happened that night if you want. Don’t you think its right? The moral thing to do to get this guy back to his family? Give them some closure. His friends have called us. (Tapping) CLARK If there are other stressors going on in you life at the time that’s, this is what you need to tell me now. Other things are goin’ on Mark TWITCHELL Wouldn’t that really be irrelevant though? CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL Really. CLARK I would think it would be very relevant. Don’t you think? Whether they be financial, at home, marriage, health. I don’t know. Lot of things go on behind closed doors. Every one of us has three lives. We have our work life where we behave one way at work. We have our home life where we behave a certain way at home. And we have our secret life.

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And I guarantee every single person on this planet has a secret life. Things they do that maybe they don’t want people to know, it could be good or bad, don’t always have to be good and they don’t always have to be bad. Somthin’ went on there. One of your lives. I think somethin’ was goin’ on in all three of your lives. That led to this. You mentioned earlier your marriage is over why do you say that? TWITCHELL It’s complicated. Cuz I (Stammers) thinking about telling you but it’s just so friggin’ complicated it would take you hours just to go through that. Uhhhm… CLARK I wouldn’t mind listenin’.

TWITCHELL (Sighs) CLARK What’s been goin’ on in your marriage to make you say that?

TWITCHELL I need to find out. (Stammers) I think she already called some legal place. Figure what that is first and if uh if that’s the case I’ll just call them instead of goin’ through a phone book. CLARK You callin’ your wife?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. CLARK Want me to leave you while you talk to her?

TWITCHELL Sure. CLARK Okay. I’ll come back in a few minutes.

TWITCHELL Okay she’s not there. She might be sleeping. Okay. (Sighs) CLARK What do you thinks gonna happen to you?

TWITCHELL At this point I don’t know. (Groans)

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Do you know the difference between uh… three types of murder? First degree, second degree, manslaughter.

TWITCHELL Is it intent? CLARK Yeah basically, first degrees like planning it. Second degree is… is basically not planning it. Manslaughter is spur of the moment, well like a bar fight or somethin’. TWITCHELL Hm. CLARK Someone punches someone when they get angry. Somethin’ like that. Which category would you fall in to? TWITCHELL What’s the category for suicidal? CLARK Why are you suicidal?

TWITCHELL Cuz what’s the point, I mean… If everything that I’ve been working for is just suddenly gonna end… (Laughs). CLARK But you know that’s gonna happen. There’s no way to to sugarcoat that or to sweeten that up. TWITCHELL So then-CLARK But is that any reason to take your own life?

TWITCHELL I don’t know. (Sighs) CLARK Is that any reason to leave your daughter without a father? Regardless of whether you’re with right beside her or living in the same house you’re still her father. And of course it isn’t the best of circumstances but, you’re not gonna be away from her forever. There will come a time when you’ll be back to see her. But you wouldn’t be back to see her if you took your own life. Then you’d never be in her life. She’d never

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know the real you. And the real you is not this person. That did this to John. We know that. This is somethin’ that happened because you weren’t thinkin’ straight. And I believe that one day you’ll be able Recording ends abruptly Transcribed by: Bobbie 2009 Jul 07 Proofread by: Not Proofed

Hours to Proofread ____________________ Date Proofread ____________________

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