www.33voices.

com

BUILT TO LOVE (Unplugged)
A conversation between Peter Boatwright & Moe Abdou

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

About Peter Boatwright & Moe Abdou Peter Boatwright Peter Boatwright, Ph. D. , is Associate Professor of Marketing at the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University. His expertise and teaching focus on innovation, new product marketing, brand strategy, and marketing research methods. In his research, Prof. Boatwright has developed new statistical methods and additional theories of consumer behavior. Moe Abdou Moe Abdou is the creator of 33voices — a global conversation about things that matter in business and in life. moe@33voices.com

33voices.com

1

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

I’m really, excited to have this opportunity to talk with you guys this morning about something, as I mentioned to you both, that has really inspired me. As someone who has come more from the corporate perspective, emotion has long been the lever that drives all human beings. Yet, I see that it’s largely been ignored in boardrooms. Whenever I have been involved in boardrooms talking about product development or this whole notion of innovation, rarely do I hear anybody talk about emotion. And then I get the opportunity to look at your book and I start to get really excited because that’s what resonates with me. So my question to you initially is, are you guys starting to see a shift in that? Specifically in corporate boardrooms where maybe one day emotion is going to be alongside, how do we make the performance of our products better and faster? I think the shift that we’re observing right now is a shift in interest. People are starting to ask questions about how do you do this. Metrics is an issue that actually brought us to writing this book in the first place because executives are recognizing people are driven by emotion both at a point of purchase but also from their pleasure and enjoyment of using a product. If that is a big part of the experience of a product, how do you measure that so you could make sure that you build the right thing? I think there is an interesting issue in management and that there are managers that get it. They see that emotions are really important and as you said, certain companies in the boardroom, that’s the case. They embrace it and you can see that in their products. But there are a lot of people out there; they’re trying to figure it out. What’s going on here? Why is this important? Is this something that’s profitable? Does it really matter? That was part of why we wrote the book as well. But it’s also part of the momentum in terms of what you’re talking about, in terms of the shift that we think is hopefully going to start to happen more and more, and that people recognize that emotion is critical to the long term success of their product. Peter, how do you stimulate that emotion? How do you start that conversation with a corporation or a business that’s interested in starting to think about this? I know that you guys outlined a terrific process in your book but let’s just talk about conversation starters. I belong to a lot of think tanks,
33voices.com 2

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

mastermind groups that I participate in primarily for entrepreneurial companies. Again, we talk about innovation a lot but it doesn’t seem to be triggered by this emotional context. So if you were sitting in one of those mastermind groups with us and you wanted us to start to shift our thinking towards this whole notion of emotion that we all know drives us, where do we start? The first thing is to help people at least get the importance of emotion with a few examples. One extreme example of a product is music. I mean, music is a hundred percent emotion. We divide up things in emotion versus function. Function is the part of getting things done; the features, the function, the technology. Emotion is the intangible experience part, also leading to benefits that people enjoy. Music is an extreme product. It’s a hundred percent in the intangible experience part of emotion. There is one example. Then, pointing out that pretty much all products and services are some mixture of the emotional side and the functional side. So we start asking people to think about products that they love. Each person really has one product that they greatly enjoy. And you start asking them why and push them. The first thing that many people think about is the rationale side because it accomplishes certain tasks. They might be thinking of their iPhone - “It gets my email done. It’s easy to navigate the web.” Some of these features. But then you start comparing it to the next best product and pure function take their iPhone, and a lot of smart phones, a lot of Droid based phones that do roughly the same task. So the passion comes from something beyond the function. I think people immediately recognize that with some of the examples from their own lives. Jon, do you have anything to add on that? Let me add that I think the other thing you can start to look at is really successful products. You’re talking about how to get people motivated to realize this is critical. Certainly, it’s a well-known example but look at essentially everything that Apple creates. They’re driven as much by emotion as they are by technology. I’ll also mention, when we talk about products, we’re not just talking about consumer products. We’re talking about services. We’re talking about business to business products as well. So we can start to look at lots of examples in that domain as well. We explore quite a few of them in the book.
33voices.com 3

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

Jonathan, this whole notion of design thinking has come to the forefront especially in the last four or five years. I know that that’s an area that you guys tackle as well in terms of designing products and even services. How does this whole notion of design thinking apply to the emotional thinking that you guys are talking about in Built to Love? Well, this is really part of what I would say is design thinking. As you said, design thinking as a term that has sort of emerged where people recognize that you really want to talk about designing anything and not just sort of the detailed specifics as a concept especially among engineering and business used to focus on. But when we’re talking about designing a product and you’re really talking about innovation then emotion is a core part of that. I think the important message is that the emotional desires and needs and wants of customers and stakeholders should drive product development as much as, if not more so, than technological capabilities. That isn’t to say technology isn’t important, it’s very important. It has to deliver that emotion as well as the functional needs that people seek. But you can drive successful products from the start by exploring the emotions that customers seek. In essence, it’s part of what the whole design process should be all about. But it’s yet the part that hasn’t been really understood or formalized until now. I don’t think it’s really understood and certainly not formalized. I remember, I really started to embrace this concept when I read Kevin Roberts’ book and this whole notion of Lovemarks. I started to see a whole new way of thinking which is not certainly in line with the thinking that you guys bring to the table of, you know, emotion and intimacy. What does a brand really stand for? Again, I love the title, Built to Love. Does it matter what product or service that somebody is designing? But when we start to think about emotion, are there some universal emotions out there that we, as human beings, have that would make it simple for companies designing any type of product to keep in mind? The universal emotions…well, I guess there is a yes part of this answer and a more complicated yes part or, yes and no if you will. In the sense that we’ve studied emotions that people look to benefit from, from products and services, and that would be a universal set.

33voices.com

4

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

I mean, there are hundreds of emotions. Actually, probably even thousands of emotions more than people have words to describe. And yet, trying to design for hundreds of emotions is unwieldy, to say the least, for companies to research and develop on that vast base. It turns out if you’re studying that space and analyzing it like we did, a lot of these overlap; safety, security- these kinds of notions. There are many different feelings that all are in that same space. So you can categorize and think of types of emotions or groups of emotions. We have done that analysis and we put that into Chapter 6 of our book. Is that right Jon? That’s correct. There we have this general set of emotions and that’s the definite yes part. There is a set that people are always looking for. However, once it’s at that very general level, any company that is wanting to delve into this needs to be more specific within that category and how that applies to them. So to take one example, a feeling of luxuriousness. In some product categories, the word ‘luxury’ is actually not a word which appeals to the market. Let’s take a business to business context where the buyer is maybe even actually a government service. Luxury sounds like you’re wasting money. It’s wasteful. It’s excessive. They don’t want to spend public funds in a way that has that feeling of waste. But if you think about the notion of luxury, it’s a sense of well being, well taken care of, of comprehensive service. Comprehensive service, that notion resonates very strongly and it’s quite valuable in a business to business and in this kind of context where you’re spending public funds. So getting specifics, it’s not so easy to say, “There are 16 emotions to design for.” You have to really understand what those mean in the context. Let me give you an example. One of the first things that I kind of realized when I read your book is the purpose of what we’re trying to do at Learn from My Life and at 33 Voices. The one word that I came with and the one emotion is inspiration. It allowed and it really enabled me to think a little differently about how we present ideas. Because the whole notion of everything we’re trying to do is, connect individuals and companies with the best thinking and thinkers out there and the reason for that is help them build great businesses and live great lives.
33voices.com 5

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

So everything that we want to try to do is really with that premise of trying to get people inspired maybe to take the next step or to do something that ordinarily they thought they could not do. When I think about what we’re doing and I start to relate to some of the work that you guys are doing, there was a gap. I assume there are a lot of companies that you guys talk to and that you guys counsel, where you go in and you find that gap between what they know and what they do. Help me fill in that gap. A lot of us know we’re driven by emotion but yet, most of us don’t do anything about it in promoting our products and services. As I mentioned to somebody yesterday, I think your book fills that gap. Am I way off base? I think you’re right on the money. I think in terms of what the book can do for people and what we do when we work with companies is to start with, what is your current state? Where are you at as a company? Where are you at in terms of your products? Where are your competitors at? And then who are your stakeholders? Who are the key ones and what do they really desire? And then once we understand that, we can then use the eMap, this tool that we’ve developed based on these categories of emotions, to help dig in to that context and identify the specific emotions, as you said, to fill that gap that are missing. The goal is to understand what your customers want. You have to understand that. You have to do research to know what your customers want. But once you understand that then you also have to know where you want to go as a company or an organization. And then between those two, you can identify strategies that is emotion based that you can pursue and instantiate that through the products that you’ve developed. Jon, can you give us an example of a situation you guys have been involved with and involved more of a service business. I think from a product perspective, it’s very easy I would think for anybody listening to this to think of their best products and immediately think of emotions that it triggers. I think it becomes a bit more difficult for a service industry say, a consulting practice. Can you share some examples of how you’ve taken or helped a service company go from where they were to a more emotional state of delivery?

33voices.com

6

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

I want to jump in and add to the previous question and then we can move into services if that’s okay. In your question you mentioned that notion of being inspirational. There is a lot of passion that markers have looked for. Often I think some of what markers have recognized, they want a passionate following. They want their employees to be inspired and engaged and they want their customers to respond with zeal and loyalty. Passion is an outcome. It’s a result of something else that you feel that sense of loyalty and it’s because of some extra value or some connection. What we’ve done in Built to Love is move at a deeper level to something that will lead to and feel that passion where passion is the result. Passion is not the immediate objective, it’s the long term objective. Great, I appreciate you sharing that. That really clarifies it for me. So you want to dive into kind of the service industry? So in terms of services, what’s interesting is that often, we talk with companies that have focused on initially technology but all with different competitors have the same technology. So where they differentiate is service. Some of these companies recognize, and that’s the focus that they’re going after, is how can they really improve their service from the context of emotion. That’s one example of taking a service and realizing that even among what’s essentially and initially a physical product, that’s really often to service that differentiates a company and that eventually leads to its success. In the book, we also talk about services such as even a university. It’s one example of a service that we’ve talked about and then actually done some work with in terms of really understanding that there are some very complicated relationships between stakeholders. Essentially, the choice of the university is partially because of emotion. But really and more importantly is, once you’re involved with a university, you have a life long relationship with that. University and the emotion is so critical to that relationship as you move forward in life. You can also look at retailers as another example of services. But once again, the differentiation between different retailers is really primarily the service that you receive because you can buy those goods in many different places. Another service example that we have, at face value it doesn’t look like a service, is RedZone Robotics. They make robots. But ultimately what they’re
33voices.com 7

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

doing is they’re providing a service. Their robots are inspecting a system, mapping it out, and providing information. Why? What is that information for? Because the opportunity they’re solving, the problem they’re solving is an emotion based one. Whoever you’re mapping information for has some uncertainty. They’re unsure what’s the state of their system. So resolving that uncertainty and giving them the confidence that either the system is intact or hear some very specific problems to address and they know that they have addressed them. Ultimately confidence or security is what this service RedZone was providing. Once they recognize that it was an emotion based opportunity, they’re going for, they dug into that and analyzed it and that’s when their firm really took off in terms of growth. I know Peter, Apple has been overused in almost every context. They have done an amazing job in creating this context. As you were making a comment early on in our discussion about our iPhones, I started to think, “Okay, how about me? What do I like about my iPhone and my iPad and my iPod and everything that has an I in front of it?” You know, I have become an advocate, an evangelist, not only is it a beautiful product but it makes me feel good about myself. It’s funny, I had one of the first iPhones right after they came out and I love that product because it just took my everyday routine task. It’s made them a little bit more joyful. Before they were out, I was talking to everyone saying, “You got to get one of these. They’re great.” I got Peter to go out and buy one, as a matter fact. I wasn’t trying to be obnoxious but I thought, “Boy, if this brought me this little extra joy, it might do the same for him.” And then the iPad comes out. I’m looking at every functional excuse I could so that I could buy it because emotionally, I wanted that product and I love using it. Jon, I feel the same way. Hence, now when we start to think about how does this thing get into boardrooms or how does it become top-of-mind conversation for any aspiring leader, manager, or entrepreneur. When I start to look at kind of the high emotion index that you guys have talked about and I see that yes, there are some staggering returns that these companies -- I mean, this is tangible stuff. This is not made up. You can look at the numbers. When I start to think about that, I’m sure when you guys looked at it it certainly was an eye opener that this is a critical ingredient to the success of any business.

33voices.com

8

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

Success of any business, that’s a good point. Because many businesses they can do pretty well but they’re leaving a lot on the table and may not even recognize it. If they added an emotion they could be doing much better. We did quantify this through looking at stock market returns to see is this something generalizable and yet understand the context of this question. It really wasn’t to try to put together a winning fund that we could manage at all to try to pick stocks. The context of this was really confirming everything else in the book. It was confirming that firms actually can provide emotional value. Apple is the easiest example. That’s probably why it’s overused as people recognize it. They understand it. So firms provide emotional value and people value it and people are willing to pay for what they value. You put that together it sort of it should be true that firms that are doing well in the emotion end of things should have unusually high returns. So, we were trying to just look back in time and confirm that that’s exactly what’s taking place. Then when we looked at the returns over the past years: three years, five years, 10 years etcetera. Like the 10-year returns, the emotion index of the set of firms that we identified -- we ran a market research survey to identify a set of firms that provides higher than average emotional value to their customers. That high emotion index gave a return of greater than a thousand percent. Meanwhile, the Dow, the NASDAQ, S&P 500 were less than 100%. I mean just astounding returns. We thought something must be wrong. I mean, we’re throwing out why are companies. We were checking their robustness. We did Monte Carlo simulation over random holding periods. Numbers were coming through that this really pays off. So only then do we start to look at the future to say, do these returns keep on holding in the future because we were pretty impressed with the past results. I can’t imagine that the future would be any different. We’re in an era where because we’re inundated with products and because we’re inundated with copycat products. Specifically, I mean look at since the iPhone came out and this whole notion of apps and applications, every phone now has apps and applications and even televisions have apps and applications. Yet, Apple remains the leader. I was reading over the weekend on the cover of Fortune, the perfect iPhone, now with Apple teaming up with Verizon. So I sense that I would envision that that would continue to be a primer in the future. Do you guys kind of

33voices.com

9

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

see the same thing? Certainly, we’re not here to predict the future but it seems to be something that’s reasonable. It’s even interesting that we wanted to explore that. So when we originally ran that study looking at our stock index, the high emotion stock index, it was in the summer of 2007. Although the whole reason we did this was to look to the past to verify our hypothesis, we couldn’t help but look to the future. We wanted to see if it was at all predictive. Of course, we picked the period of time where we then, in the future, went into the worst economy in a hundred years. We’re thinking, “Okay, let’s see.” Not only do we have to see how this projects forward but how does this project in a really bad economy. Does emotion matter in bad economy? Do people want to buy things because that their driven by emotion or are they going to go back to only being frugal and functional? What’s so interesting is that even through this bad economy, the high emotion index fared quite well and certainly far better than the standard indexes. Certainly, everything tumbled after Lehman Brothers collapsed but what comes out of that trough first is this high emotion index. So yeah, emotions are a driver even in bad times, even when the economy is down. Emotions may shift but they’re still there. Emotion has long been one of the keys to advertising specifically nowadays. How does the message in your book, how does the message in your studies, impact advertising moving forward? Is it now starting for advertisers and marketers to start to really drill down and find out specifically what emotions their products are designed to trigger and focus on that? Well, if you think about today’s environment, traditional advertising doesn’t have the reach that it once did. Because people are spending their time on Facebook and looking at Twitter feeds and their smart phone or they’re looking for reviews that other people have put online about products. So if you really want to reach people then you need to do this through the product emotions. The product itself needs to engender those emotions. Now, that’s not to say advertising doesn’t have a purpose and role, but our point is that the days of advertising meant taking a product that’s complete and then trying to create fictitious emotions and pop them on top of them. People see through that. Although they may still enjoy the ads, it’s not going to have the impact that they once did.

33voices.com

10

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

So a good ad today is going to be one that echoes or leverages those product emotions, the emotions that are engendered by the product itself. That’s what advertisers need to start doing is looking for what those product emotions are. More importantly, companies need to realize they need to create the emotions themselves as they’re developing the products instead of trying to leave it as an after thought. That brings us to title itself, Built to Love because sort of the traditional old school way of doing things is to create the product and then to try to put the emotions around it. Try to figure out how are we going to get people interested and engaged enough to buy. But that’s after the fact. We are looking at when the product is being put forth and created in the first place. This is where you got the notion of design thinking and bringing that in that you’re looking fundamentally, what is the customer looking for? So once you’re identifying what they’re looking for, we’ll build it all in both function and emotion. Now that product is providing what people are looking for directly. It’s providing emotions that at a very deep level. We lead off the book with an example from trucking. One of the things that Navistar recognized is that truckers, although they’re small businessmen, many of them, so there’s fleets and there is also smaller owners. But the smaller owners, they’re not really viewed in society necessarily like white collar business owners. There is a respect that truckers really hunger for and the truck itself can help provide that. So that’s what Navistar went about among other things. They provided a truck that was not only an outstanding business tool but one that also created a space for instance in the interior to where it was more like the cabin of a private jet than like a traditional truck. It may have even a hardwood floor for instance. That respect is something that strikes deeply. That reaches people at a deep level to where now they start opening up and they start saying, “Look at this truck” or, if they already own it, “Look at what I’ve got.” It becomes part of them, part of their identity that they publicly share and enjoy sharing. The observed output is this zeal, this engagement, this excitement, that every company is looking for that was a result of providing the respect and professionalism that the truckers deeply wanted. Which was a fascinating example. When I read that example, I mean, obviously the first thought that goes through your mind, “Wow, semi33voices.com 11

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

truck.” The whole notion LoneStar did to create emotion. If that could be done in an object like that certainly, it’s possible in everything else. Let me shift my attention to the world of selling for a second. Everybody is trying to sell something whether it’s AT&T selling, it’s great service that most of us have not yet experienced or somebody is selling something else. Everybody is selling something. How does your approach change the world of selling? I think, from my perspective, it does. There are two pieces. There is creating awareness. That has to take place for somebody to even buy. So there is creating initial awareness to get some people to own it. One of the things is, every marketer is always recognized that word of mouth is a dream. That’s a dream state of marketing. If you plot out the mathematics, word of mouth is exponential in growth. Direct sales from a company, it’s directly from the company to the customer. This can be advertising. This could be going to the retailer and then to people. All those channels where it’s not the word of mouth type where customers are telling customers. But when a company is selling directly, it’s all, we’ll say, linear, to use the math term. It’s much slower growth. It’s always been the dream of marketers to get this word of mouth going and they try some marketing ploy to do it but of course that’s backwards in a sense. Because if it’s the product that all the customers are talking about, bring out a product that they can’t help but talk about. All the investment needs to go in the product. That’s I think the major change on the selling side is putting it in the front end, putting it in to the product design of what people are looking for. Not to say we don’t have to create awareness alongside that but that’s a shift in mentality. That’s very important in the market place today. Peter, are there key questions that people should be asking in that process initially not to miss that? The types of questions that you would want to ask are ones that are going to begin to evoke of this role or a mode of response. For instance, what’s your favorite, and fill in the blank. Here’s your favorite phone, your favorite this or that. People really have favorite often because of emotional reasons. So, probing why, there is just one example, or what do you hate about is going to be the negative side. But fixing is a negative is also very important in the emotional sphere.

33voices.com

12

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

Those would be some starter questions to get people, you know, get them going to understand how to do the market research to where you’re beginning to understand emotional why’s what people are looking for. I gave a copy of your book to everyone on my team. One of the things that I started to challenge them with is the thinking of, okay, I really believe that this is a key lever for people being engaged and people being inspired. But I challenge them to think how, after reading that book, they would design the website any differently or add or take away anything from our website. They come up with a lot of interesting ideas. I’m just curious, from your perspective, how do you see that once people go through that, you know, companies that you take through your program and take through your thinking process, have you seen them kind of try to bring that whole level of consistency in this thinking to everything that they do? Yes. I mean, at times we’ve seen a really interesting change in companies. I think Navistar is a great example where this was a company that was really trying to be the low cost provider. Through new leadership and new inspiration, when you talk about LoneStar really extremely exciting paradigm shift in trucks -- even before the truck came out, you could feel the energy among people at the company because they realized they could do something different. And because of that, it changes the mindset of how you approach everything. It’s true in anything in life. Once you start to feel good about what you’re doing, that just starts to radiate into everything you’re doing, certainly, around that environment. I think that’s certainly the case here. Once you realized that if you really can do things differently and embrace emotion in what you’re creating and delivering to people, you can be emotional about it as well and it can change how you think about all the products you’re creating. Are there questions right now that you guys are exploring that people listening to this podcast and/or reading this transcript can help contribute to? One of the things that excites us about what we do is, clearly, we work closely with a lot of companies in different modes from consulting, to having them support projects at the university through the teaching that we do and our engagement with our students. We also are at one of the top research universities. We’re constantly looking at research questions.

33voices.com

13

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

We’re probing how the ideas in Built to Love which builds on the ideas in our previous books. Where do they lead? Part of it is, also, can we start to think about new ways to engage people and implement these ideas. So that’s at a high level. There are a lot of different things we’re looking at. I’ll just mention one thing that we’re doing that could be very interesting. We sort of mentioned it briefly in the book. What we found really exciting is that, you know, there is different ways you can implement this emotion strategy and you want to do that through touch points, things you create. Certainly, designers do that for you. They’re well trained and now they have direction on what those emotions should be and you can test what you’re creating against the marketplace. But wouldn’t it be great if you could actually start to have computers help us deliver these emotions. So one of the things we found really interesting is that some of the research we’re doing, we can actually, through surveys, by continuously changing products’ visual forms. We can start to determine what the actual utility or preference functions people feel towards products are. You can do that as simple as like or dislike but you could also do that to the emotions. Once you have that, you now have a means to actually drive a computer to generate designs that maximize that function. Probably getting a little bit beyond what some of your readers or listeners are interested in but what’s so interesting is you can actually get computers to generate designs that resonate emotionally with people. So what’s interesting is that there is really a science behind these emotions. Although we give some tools in the book that allow you to interact when we do this, it really provides the basis for some very fundamental research. Some very fundamental tools that I think will emerge over time. I think you guys are certainly on the forefront of a different thinking process specifically in the world of business creation. I don’t look at the scenario of design or I mean, really believe there is a tremendous value there. Anybody who has not had an opportunity to read the book obviously Built to Love can be purchases at any bookstore at the same time anywhere online. Are there particular websites or places that you guys would like to direct people to, Jonathan and Peter? We actually have a website for the book, www.BuiltToLove.com. We have information about the book on the website. Also, lots of links to different places you can buy them although, as you said, available really anywhere. We
33voices.com 14

www.33voices.com
Built to Love (Unplugged) Peter Boatwright with Moe Abdou

also have a blog that we started. We certainly invite people as they start to use these methods or uncover new ideas in terms of emotions and products. We’d be more than happy to hear from them through the blog. They can certainly see some of the ideas that we found products that we see that are emerging. So that’s really a great place to go. And then there is also lots of links for other websites from there including some of the other work we’re doing. The blog is, one our main intent was to hear from readers. So encourage our readers to, in essence, write back. If they have created a product that they felt like has really been very successful in reaching people and providing product emotions, we’d love to hear the stories. We’ve intended that to be as a two-way communication not us just continuing to give examples to readers but also have readers write back. I love your story and I love you guys sharing the time with us. I really appreciate it.

33voices.com

15

FeedBack

www.33voices.com

We believe that the best version of yourself is when you don’t have to choose between doing what you love and making a living. So if you’re stuck or simply want an extra spark of inspiration, please tell us how we can help.

What Are You Struggling With?

ASK A QUESTION THINK WITH PETER

Sign up to vote on this title
UsefulNot useful