*

i

.:

...
L.

DUPLICATE .TRANSCRIPT
>

DUPLICATE A
,
.! I !

No.

10 KA
D F X W1

216'

SUPREME COURT OFTHE STATE OF LOUISIANA
Volume N&LU

Filed

"

VERSUS

Plaintiff and

AP I? ELLE E

F E L T O N DEJUAN
I

DORSEY

SUPREME COURT OF LOUISIANA

Filed

APPELLANT Defendant and

JAN 2 6 2010

..

UClerk

APPEAL FROM

TheF'RST
Pariah of
-

Judicial District Court for the
CADDO
HON . J O H N MOSELY , J R .

~d51,406
#

\
\

Judgo

BRADY 0 ' CALLAGHAN
J . DHU THOMPSON ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS CADDO PARISH CDUKFHOUSE SHREVEPORT LA 71101

Counrel for

STATE-APPELLEE

CAP T T AT A PP EAT,S PR 0.TEC.T
I

636 BARONNE STREET, FLOOR 3

Counrel for

nEFENDANT-APPELLANT

NEW ORLEANS LA 70113-1004
lurnl.hd w l t h h t h ' a Trurmrlpt C O V ~ N

ML UHl H .I 4zz-u

1 06 1 - 1 063

c V

-.
J

i

-.

7

c

!

. -

-.
I

.

d

<
c
c

<
c
e

c

I$

c
I

-

2 :
7

r .
I

c

L J

! -3

I

c .
1 3

CG C
! '

W J

c -

L A

c J

-.

x c
c
L 2 .

-

x

c c
e

c
I

c

!.3
I

c
0-'
.

1- 82

!

-I

.:

I

1 . 3 1 3

7
c

7
c

i

W
a 9
c

u n*
S'

5

c

5

J

s c
rc
c

rj-

* .

c
c3-

I v'

. . .
j.

c
I

c

C
L

7

. -.
. . I

'' .

,.... !

x * <

'A .

%
c

k
I

<
- ?.

<'

<

'A -

<

x

c

<

! .
d-

I-\

0

1-3

! ' *

c

r. -

A L1'1-1 AB ET1CA L 1J\I DEX
CON'L'll\IUED ( 2 5 1406)

3
CPI

-,r:x
4 3

--.I-

- > . .I

'.-' 4

2

G
F F

G b

Q

-I

..)

L I s 3 223
-.

1 114-1 I 1 5

.1,
%.' --

:

0

V

V

v
v
1 107- I I Oil

v

V

1 1 10-1 I 1 1 I 1 12-1 I13

1 116-1 I19

I 1'0- I 126
V
V
V

I 174- 1 197

V

V
XI
XI

Xllj

2992-2994

XI11 3 1 13-3 I 1'7

ALPHAHE'I'LCAL 1 NDEX

CON1'INUED ( 2 5 I4Ob)

VOL 1 " "x
Motion io Complete Record

1 V V

30-31
I IO? I1:11-1 112

I 11
111

1v
\I

3 2 - 250 251 -500 501 -750 751-1000 100 1 - 1060

' I
A
I

-I-

.>.
3't

P . 1

c.1 I
C I

5
C1 .

C I

.>. c 4

>>

I

-

'%

x

I

. _. .

1 ,
7 1

-

.U

-

c
I

>

3

h

rr

' 2

-

J

rr rr J

CA

s
i n
..

-

:>.!
I

cI
-

3 3
, I

: . -

<*-: ,';

_-

J '

..- . .

-

i

.a
-3
ci '

I

cI
3

,

--I

-

x : 4

x
3

3

x

2

I

- _ .

I

.

- -_ J

J

_a

-- -

._

j
2

'

I.

.. i. 31,

-.,.

.-. .

.,-;

J
c

I

'J

r ?

c . s

-5

r ,

cu

3

" -A'

3 5

I

.-

c
I=

. d

-

. .& A

i i h

J

'J

4

>

:> l

3

.-

02
' A

3

c

c-

c

c

L

c)

c.

P ,
A h

CL.

r-

x

x

'A

x
G 2

x x
C
rn
W

x

x

t

c

x <
h
i

<

0 r
c
U

<P 0 m

w
I

0.
'.A

0.
c\ j

i "
I

r,

GC
3 9

I3

0 -1

D ._ 2
0 - 3
0 - 4

D-5 0-6

0-7
D-S
D-9
-

MOTION TO SLIPPRESS 5-1 4 - 0 9

i l -

'4

. .._ .
i

A

a
. 4

J 3 -4

i
A

r .

. J

z ._
5
-'
r-7

I

; $

z
-. . __-_.
3

3

: A

'

d

3 " i
3

z
h

CL

i 2, 4 a: ,
1

.I,

.A

. -

I r J
J

d
i

'

L

i

z
0 .?
' ' 4

I

4 v

L

2
i r I
1

-

.J
3

Y

1 2 ;

; -

0 3

ca
y
h

! -

5
'3
h

,. -:

h

i
I

0
3

:&
'3:
c, ?

i -

(J

G

E V 1DEN C E C'C>N 1'1 1IE 1) J (3 1406)

E V 1D EN C E C0N 'f' I Id [I E D '
( 2 5 14.06)

m

n

i d
r

'd

3 , ,

-

- !A
I -

1

ri)

r j

o -

L-

--z
I

cl
'. A 2

Z

L

0

4

-- . ..
-.

-_-

1

,

E V ID EN C E C'ON'U 1 LJ ED
(35 1406)

0

.. b@

0
4
\

I ; ,

I

T

E

C

o h '
T

c z

4

E

c
Q
\ P

-c
0: \

cc

C
LJ \

\

1 3

C G
VI

13 . 0 C Gi

0
3

z t !

,> z

>

r;
r

o

E H

00

0 3 / 2 G / 2 0 0 '7

CASE NUlvlEEK :

2 5 14 06

(CONT' 0 )

CASE NUMBER:

2 5 :I. 4 0G

((30N'I" D!

C.'SE: 1LJMB EI? : A 1

L .

'7

l. I. 4 0E; I
'

[

cc)I\J 1:'' 13 )

( COlil'T"

D1

8.

i I . ..
,;;*

. -.

1
2 3

IN T.HE F I R S T J U D I C I A L D I S T R I C T C O U R T IN AND FOR PARISH O F C A D D O SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

4
5

6
7 8

STATE OF LOUISIANA VERSUS C A S E NO.: 251406'

9
10
11
12 13
1 4

FELTON DEJUAN DORSEY

:

T R A N S C R I P T OF T H E P R O C E E D I N G S H A D in the t r i a l of t h e above- styled a n d n u m b e r e d
cause before

H I S HONOR J O H N D . M O S E L Y , J R . ,

15

J u d g e o f the First J u d i c i a l D i s t r i c t C o u r t , i n a n d f o r C a d d o Parish, a t S h r e v e p o r t , L o u i s i a n a , on the 14th d a y o f M a y , 2 0 0 9 , A.D.

16
17

18

19 20 21 22 23 24

APPEARANCES: MR. C H A R L E S R. S C O T T Caddo Parish District Attorney MR. B R A D Y O ' C A L L A G H A N MR. J. D H U T H O M P S O N Assistant District Attorneys

26D[ 27 28 29 30 31 32

lr

MR. D A V I D R. M C C L A T C H E Y M R . GLEN G A R R E T MS. M I C H E L L E A. A N D R E P O N T Assistant I n d i g e n t D e f e n d e r s

Reported b y : . V i c k i D. B e g g s Official Court Reporter

CSR

I N D E X - - - - -

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N : M a r k Na.tale C h e r y l D . Thornton

PAGE :

J o a n n S . Stewart
I r m a L. E d w a r d s Ronald T. Olague Danny W a l k e r M o n i c a M. H i c k s
Carlita R.

Dixon

C h a r l e s W a l t e r s , Jr. Sharon Snelling Marvin Jefferson

i

1

E x a m i n a t i o n b y the D e f e n s e . . D e f e n s e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause.

.

.

.158

-163

I
I

i

I

iI

I

I

1 2
3

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N : Nicholas Burks Deloris Harris

4
5
6 7

Theresa Williams
Randolph Dozier
Reather Barnes Teresa Yeates Kris St. Pierre

a
9
10

Angela Johnson
Cynthia Andrews Thomas Dewett Jeffrey Smith Cheryl Mouser

11
12

13

14
15

L a s h u n d a Knowles
Eddie Dennis Rico Jones Carl Staples Malcolm Brown

16
17

18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
.

E x a m i n a t i o n by the S t a t e . . . . . 2 7 6 E x a m i n a t i o n b y the D e f e n s e . . . - 3 1 6 S t a t e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . . . 3 2 1 State challenges for cause. . . . 3 3 3 D e f e n s e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . - 3 3 3 S t a t e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . . . 3 3 4 Defense challenges for cause. . . 3 3 5 State challenges for cause. . . . 3 3 9

27

28
29 30
31

32

3

3

5719

Klru

e7

MORNING

SESSION

May 1 4 ,
WHEREUPON

2009

. . .

t h e f o l l o w i n g p r o c e e d i n g s were h a d : ( W h e r e u p o n t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t w i t h
counsel. 1

MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

For t h e r e c o r d , F e l t o n Dorsey. are

this

i s S t a t e of Louisiana v s .
defendant i s present;
10
11 12

The

on h i s b e h a l f

Mr.

G l e n G a r r e t a n d Ms.

Michelle AndrePont
There are
for the and

from t h e , p u b l i c d e f e n d e r ' s o f f i c e . no p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s p r e s e n t . S t a t e a r e Brady O ' C a l l a g h a n ,

Present

13

Dhu Thompson

14
15

District Attorney Charles Scott,.
MR.

GARRET:

Glen G a r r e t f o r t h e McClatchey,

16
17

defense,
I ' m

and M r .

Golden and M r .

sure,

a r e on t h e i r w a y . t h e r e c o r d was

18
19

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f held.)
MR.
O'CALLAGHAN:

I
Your H o n o r , I've
the

20

21 22
23 24 25

i d e n t i f i e d on e a c h o f
I have

s e t s of photographs,

w r i t t e n a s m a l l h a n d w r i t t e n number on of each f o r reference purposes, so

t h e back

t h e y c a n a l l l i t e r a l l y b e on t h e s a m e p a g e
when d i s c u s s i n g t h e

contents of

those

26
27 28 29 30

photographs.
I

would a l s o n o t e t h a t t h i s morning t h e

S t a t e provided defense counsel w i t h a CD c o n t a i n i n g a u t o p s y p h o t o s r e c e i v e d from
Dr..

P e r e t t i j u s t t o be c l e a r f o r t h e r e c o r d .
t h e S t a t e had autopsy. photos
t h e y were

31
32

Originally,

that

it tendered t o defense,

actually

1

t a k e n by Deputy J e f f
Mr.

Thomas who a c c o m p a n i e d

2

P r o c k ' s body t o A r k a n s a s a n d p h o t o g r a p h e d The S t a t e o n l y i n t e n d s t o u s e t w o
actual

3
4

it there.
of

D r .

Peretti's

photographs

since a l l

5
6

the others are essentially duplicative with
t h e ones t h a t

D e p u t y Thomas t o o k .

That CD a l s o

7

c o n t a i n s a d d i t i o n a l s t i l l frames c a p t u r e d from video previously tendered t o defense counsel

8

9
10
11
12

f r o m a surveillance camera, I can't think of
t h e a d d r e s s -- t h e 9000 block of
G r e e n w o o d S p r i n g r i d g e Road a n d a n o t h e r p h o t o of t h e v i c t i m b e f o r e t h i s i n c i d e n t t o be used

13
14
15
16

f o r identification p u r p o s e s .
'MR.

GARRET:

Your H o n o r ,

defense

acknowledges r e c e i p t of
Mr.

t h e CD from

O'Callaghan.
THE C O U R T :
MR.

17

A l l

right. Golden and

18
19

GARRET:

Even t h o u g h M r .

Mr.

McClatchey have n o t a r r i v e d ,

we are

20
2 1
22 23 24 25 26

p r e p a r e d t o go f o r w a r d w i t h t h e m o t i o n i f that's t h e Court p l e a s u r e .
THE MR.

COURT:
GARRET:

W w i l l wait. e Okay. Thank y o u . t h e r e c o r d was
~

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f held.)
MR.

GARRET:

W are not e

sure that
So g o i n g

27

Mr.

Golden i n t e n d s t o a t t e n d .

I

28 29 30
31
32

without h i m might be t h e proper course t o take.
THE COURT:

Okay.

A r e y o u r e a d y to

a r g u e now?
MR.

GARRET:

Yes,

Your

Honor.

~

1

THE COURT: w i t h o u t Mr. G o l d e n ? MR. GARRET: Mr. G o l d e n .
THE C O U R T :

Do y o u w i s h t o p r o c e e d

2

3 4

I wish t o p r o c e e d without

All

right.

You may.

MR. G A R R E T :

May i t p l e a s e t h e Court

and c o u n s e l , this h e a r i n g c o n c e r n s a ' m o t i o n f i l e d b y the d e f e n s e t o e x c l u d e c e r t a i n c o l o r p h o t o g r a p h s o f t h e s c e n e a n d o f t h e victim and
10

the S t a t e h a s filed a n o p p o s i t i o n .

We cited

11
,

in o u r m o t i o n f o u r t e e n L o u i s i a n a S u p r e m e Court c a s e s a n d Article 4 0 3 o f t h e C o d e o f E v i d e n c e a s w e l l -a s several other cases.
I would

12

13
1 4

normally s a y w e

filed fourteen supreme court

15

c a s e s in s u p p o r t of o u r p o s i t i o n s , b u t a c t u a l l y , we filed s o m e c a s e s w h e r e t h e p h o t o s were admitted, some where they were excluded and some where the Court permitted a low-contrast black and white substitution. T h e d i f f e r e n t o u t c o m e s of t h e s e c a s e s a r e b a s e d on d i f f e r e n t f a c t s . W h i l e t h e f a c t s d i f f e r , the l a w d o e s n o t d i f f e r . It's

16
17

18
19
20 2 1

22
23
24 25

consistent and it applies the balancing test
o f C o d e of Evidence, A r t i c l e 4 0 3 o f the

p r o b a t i v e value v e r s u s p r e j u d i c i a l e f f e c t . ' We b e l i e v e in t h i s c a s e t h e f a c t s a t i s s u e c a n b e s h o w n t h r o u g h t e s t i m o n y by the c o r o n e r , by t h e p o l i c e o f f i c e r s , a n d t h e r e i s n o p r o b a t i v e value t o t h e s e p h o t o g r a p h s a n d , o f c o u r s e , if t h e r e ' s n o p r o b a t i v e v a l u e , the prejudicial effect would outweigh. We also h a v e s t a t e d we a r e p r e p a r e d t o e n t e r i n t o a
6

26
27

28 29

30
31 32

5729

necessary or material evidence in a criminal prosecution, it should be excluded. sorry. That was S t a t e v. M o r g a n . In S t a t e v . M o r r i s which we cited,
157
So.

I'm

2d.

728,

the

Court

said

t h a t

t h e

test

of admissibility is whether unpleasant, gruesome or horrifying photographs as well as the probative value of the photographs outweighs the probable prejudicial effect. Accordingly, photographs should be excluded where their logical relevancy will unquestionably be overwhelmed by the inherently prejudicial nature of the

particular picture.

And photographs which are

calculated to arouse the sympathies or prej,udices of a jury are properly excluded if they are entirely irrelevant or not substantially necessary t o show material facts or conditions. And in this instance, a s we d o not believe there is any issue concerning the facts and as we are willing t o enter a stipulation, we do not believe that they are substantially necessary. In S t a t e v. L i n d s a y , 404 So.2d. 466, it said that the nature of photographs so gruesome as to overwhelm reason and cause a jury to lose sight of the need for a prosecutor to establish with sufficient independent evidence the guilt o f the accused, they must be relevant to describe the person, place o r thing. A stipulation to the matter
1

I

~~

1
2

s o u g h t t o be p r o v e d by t h e p h o t o g r a p h s n e c e s s a r i l y b e a r s u p o n a b a l a n c i n g o f the p r o b a t i v e value o f the p h o t o g r a p h s a n d t h e i r prejudicial effect. N o w , s o m e l a n g u a g e in t h i s c a s e a n d in

6
7
8
9

another case, i t t a l k s about t h e l e g i t i m a t e
m o r a l f o r c e o f the S t a t e ' s case.

We don't

take i s s u e with the c o n c e p t t h a t the S t a t e i s entitled to a legitimate moral force of its

10
1 1

case.

We want to b e a b l e t o m a i n t a i n a
force of our case as
w e l l .

legitimate moral

12

The Court does not define "moral force." does not describe it. parameters.
don't know

It

13

I t d o e s n o t g i v e any I

14
15

It d o e s n o t s t a t e w h a t it is.
that

it's

clear

w h e t h e r

moral force

16

a p p l i e s t o the penalty p h a s e o r t h e g u i l t phase; however, one thing that is clear is t h a t moral force d o e s n o t s a y m o r a l

17

19 20
2 '1

ascendancy. The d e f e n d a n t h a s a p r e s u m p t i o n o f i n n o c e n c e , the S t a t e h a s t h e b u r d e n o f p r o o f , a n d I d o n o t believe t h a t we s h o u l d r e l a x t h e

23

r u l e s o f e v i d e n c e f o r the S t a t e a n d t h e S t a t e a l o n e , so t h a t i t c o u l d a s s u m e a n y m o r a l

25
26

s u p e r i o r i t y with the j u r y w i t h r e g a r d t o w i t n e s s e s o r evidence o r a r g u m e n t .
So

27

w h a t e v e r moral f o r c e m e a n s , w e a r e f o r i t , and we want the s a m e thing. In S t a t e v . W a t s o n , 4 4 9 So. 2 d . 1321, i t s a y s p o s t m o r t e m p h o t o g r a p h s o f ,a m u r d e r victim are a d m i s s i b l e t o p r o v e c o r p u s d e l i c t i , t o c o r r o b o r a t e o t h e r e v i d e n c e e s t a b l i s h i n g the

28
29
30 31 32

~~

~

1 2 3

cause o f death and to provide p o s i t i v e identification. I d o not b e l i e v e those photographs will be necessary t o p r o v e any o f

4
5
'6
7

t h o s e i t e m s , Your Honor. It also says that an
offered stipulation bears upon the balancing
test.
I ' m almost done with c a s e s .
S t a t e v . M y l e s , 389 S o .

8

2d. 12, t h e picture to

9
10
11
12 13
14

w h i c h t h e d e f e n d a n t o b j e c t s i s a low contrast
black and white made at the morgue showing
only the victim's head and a p r o b e inserted in the two gunshot wounds. The C o u r t also refused to admit a color photograph o f the s a m e scene.
So

in

this

case,

the Court

permitted

low

15

contrast black and white a s being l e s s prejudicial and d i d n o t . a l l o w the S t a t e to put i n color photographs. Now, one case in which the C o u r t admitted evidence is S t a t e v . 443 S o . 2 d . 546.
Kirkpatrick,

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

The four c o l o r photographs

i n that case depicted the m u r d e r s c e n e a s i t was found. And that i s n o t t h e c a s e wit.h the

photographs we have at issue. We hlave at issue p h o t o g r a p h s after the b o d y was moved. We have photographs after the coroner altered it. We have p h o t o g r a p h s t h a t are just gruesome.
J

26 27 28 29
30
31

I have two more I want t o b r i n g to the

Court's attention, S t a t e v . P r e j e a n , 379 So. 2d.' 240. The d e f e n d a n t c o n t e n d s ,

however, t h a t in light o f the s t i p u l a t i o n he offered a s to the circumstances o f the case,
10

32

5726

._

i
&>.'

1
2

the pictures had no probative value whatsoever. requesting. That i s the s i t u a t i o n w e are Obviously, we cannot solely enter The State would have to

3

4

i n t o a stipulation. agree.

5
6

I t i s our desire t o d o so.
The proposition that where the

d e f e n d a n t stipulated to excluding a l l the photographs - - I'm sorry - - the d e f e n s e stipulated to all the facts t o w h i c h allegedly

10
11

gruesome photographs would b e r e l e v a n t , the T r i a l Court would a c t properly i n e x c l u d i n g the photographs from evidence. And the last one I want to cite is where they were admitted. T h i s i s
457

I
I

12
13 14
15

I

So.

2d.

616 --

and

a l l

of

these a r e in our

16

motion - - the Court said it was e r r o r to allow introduction of photographs o f t h e victim's mutilated body. This evidence was relevant - I'm sorry. I t was not error to a l l o w introduction o f photographs o f the victim's mutilated body. T h i s evidence was relevant to whether the murder was c o m m i t t e d i n a n especially cruel, heinous and a t r o c i o u s manner which i s not at issue i n t h i s c a s e . And i t s probative value for this purpose o u t w e i g h s its prejudicial effect. And again t h o s e f a c t s are

1'7

18
19
20

2 1 22

23 24
25

I

26 27 28 29

not operative in t h i s c a s e . And so, Your Honor, the j u d g e s a n d the trial c o u r t s involved have come t o different conclusions based on the facts of the case. I t h i n k the facts are very c o n s i s t e n t and the findings are very consistent t h a t u n l e s s the

30 31
32

I

I

--

.

!,

L-. '

0

photographs are needed to provide material proof of a fact, they are purely prejudicial, especially in an environment where if there are any facts the State feels are not going to

be proved adequately by t h e coroner or the
police and other experts, we will stipulate t o those facts, and we intend to d o so. In view of that, Your Honor, there wouldn't seem to be a probative value that

outweighs the prejudicial effect.

The

probative value i s probably z e r o in this c a s e in terms of the S t a t e ' s moral force; again, that's not moral ascendancy, and we believe the testimony will demonstrate considerable moral f o r c e .

W e h o p e o u r s has s o m e moral

force, too, b u t we have no doubt that the
State's case without these photographs will have moral force. Accordingly, we would like

t o exclude the subject photographs and of the photographs that have just been offered, we would seek to exclude a number of those, if not all.
MR.

Thank you. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, the most

glaring omission from defense c o u n s e l ' s argument i s that ignores the State's point that cause of death i s not the only thing the State i s obligated, or attempting, t o prove by the introduction of these photographs. For

example, in the coroner's case, we are also obligated to prove the specific intent to kill.
7

The jury's ability to see the inwardly

beveled skull of the victim shows the amount

o f force used on his head was i n c o n s i s t e n t with an accidental blow. The number of

strikes to his head i s inconsistent with an accidental killing. And the d e f e n s e c a n ' t

stipulate to specific intent if t h e y are
disputing identity. They c a n ' t s a y , well, i t

wasn't our guy, but whoever i t was intended to kill.
I f they were going to s t i p u l a t e t o

identity and intent, perhaps we're - - at that
10
point, we are a t a guilty plea,

we

might

as

11

well d o that.

What the d e f e n s e s e e k s to d o i s

12

essentially strip the p r o s e c u t i o n ' s case o f detail. It attempts to strip i t o f i t s moral

13

14
15
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

force and replace that instead with dry
testimony that could be extremely confusing to the jury. We are talking about the c o r o n e r explaining the subgaleal h e m o r r h a g e s and testifying about skull beveling. T h e s e are not things that without visual corroboration a typical juror is likely to u n d e r s t a n d .
As I g o through the p h o t o g r a p h s , what I

would like to do, if the C o u r t c o u l d follow along, is direct the C o u r t ' s a t t e n t i o n to what the State n e e d s each picture for. W e have

carefully whittled down from d o z e n s of w h a t I would call explicit photographs d o w n t o the o n e s we presented to Your H o n o r .
I would like

proceed through them a n d e x p l a i n to the C o u r t why we need each of them.
I am going through n u m e r i c a l order.

30
31 32

We

have numbered these now, and I w o u l d assume a

I

c o p y w i l l be p l a c e d in the r e c o r d , t h e y are h a n d m a r k e d on the b a c k with t h e n u m b e r s t o w h i c h I a m referring. T h e p h o t o g r a p h number

o n e was taken of the victim J o e P r o c k a f t e r

the crime scene h a d a l r e a d y b e e n p r o c e s s e d .
H i s h a n d s are bagged. T h i s p h o t o g r a p h i s e s s e n t i a l because it was t a k e n b y F i r e Marshal J i m Alexander. Now, Fire M a r s h a l

J i m A l e x a n d e r d o e s an a n a l y s i s o f t h e house a n d d o e s a reconstruction of t h e p o i n t s of o r i g i n o f the fire, a n d o n e o f t h e f a c t o r s t h a t h e h a d t o e x a m i n e in d e t e r m i n i n g where t h e d i f f e r e n t f i r e s were, w a s the f i r e t h a t

was p l a c e d on J o e P r o c k ' s b o d y made a t the
s a m e location where Ms. P r o c k s a i d i t w a s , in the r e a r family room, a n d w a s t h a t a n i n d e p e n d e n t source o f i g n i t i o n . That is

r e l e v a n t b e c a u s e a g g r a v a t e d a r s o n i s an e l e m e n t o f the c h a r g e i n t h i s c a s e .
So we

should be permitted to present that evidence t o c o r r o b o r a t e a n d s u p p o r t Mr. A l e x a n d e r ' s t e s t i m o n y , a n d h i s o b s e r v a t i o n s o f J o e ' s body that night was part of his determination.
I w o u l d a l s o n o t e t h a t the n o t i o n that

b l a c k a n d white p h o t o g r a p h s c o u l d b e s u b s t i t u t e d , I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t in s o m e c a s e s w h e r e they c o u l d b e t h e c a s e , t h e p r o b l e m is, M r . Prock i s horribly b u r n e d a n d t h e d i f f e r e n t i a l in s k i n color f r o m t h a t b u r n i n g i s n e c e s s a r y for the w i t n e s s e s t o b e a b l e t o o p i n e a b o u t what t h e i r o b s e r v a t i o n o f t h e b o d y t o l d them. And t o s u g g e s t t h a t
14

5730

!

M r . Alexander g e t t i n g o n t h e w i t n e s s s t a n d and s a y i n g , well, I s a w s o m e s t u f f o n J o e P r o c k ' s b o d y t h a t made me b e l i e v e h e w a s an i n d e p e n d e n t point o f o r i g i n s i m p l y i s n ' t c o m p e l l i n g t o the jury a s t o t h a t f a c t . A n d we
6
7

s h o u l d be allowed to p r o v e to t h e j u r y exactly w h e r e the f i r e s were s e t , h o w t h e y w e r e s e t , h o w l o n g they b u r n e d , a l l o f t h o s e t h i n g s , b e c a u s e aggravated a r s o n a n d t h e i n t e n t t o

8

9

10
11

k i l l more than one person are b o t h e l e m e n t s
this crime.

Ofl

12 13

Ms. Bobbie Prock w a s l e f t t a p e d t o a
chair in that house, and the severity, extent a n d l o c a t i o n a l l of the f i r e s a r e e s s e n t i a l in
proving that they intended t o leave her

14
15

t o

1 6

die. Now, that's not just asking for moral force. That's asking to be allowed to prove

17

18

e s s e n t i a l e l e m e n t s o f t h e c r i m e s ch.arged in t h e indictment. As to photograph two, I don't think t h a t t h i s one a c t u a l l y c o u l d b e c h a r a c t e r i z e d as gruesome. T h i s is a p h o t o g r a p h o f the

19 20
21 22 23

v i c t i m c o v e r e d with a s h e e t a s h e w a s d o n e by firemen. T h a t i s p a r t of t h e i r n a r r a t i v e ,

24
25 26

s h o w i n g what they d i d when t h e y r e s p o n d e d . You k n o w , the n o t i o n t h a t b e c a u s e w i t n e s s e s m o v e d M r . Prock o u t of the b u r n i n g h o u s e where he was on fire means that somehow there is no r e l e v a n c e to the p h o t o g r a p h s o f w h e r e h e ended u p w h e n t h o s e witnesses w i l l b e a v a i l a b l e to t e s t i f y and explain exactly w h a t t h e y d i d i s to me, it doesn't hold together as logical.
15

27
28

29
30
31

32

5731.

This shows what the firemen did with
t h e Joe's body.

This shows where t h e y had to

move him and the steps they took t o preserve the integrity of his condition a n d s h i e l d him from the view o f others. I t a l s o depicts, o f

cours,e, the binding on his a n k l e s which i s
relevant t o the element of k i d n a p p i n g which i s also a predicate felony f o r f i r s t d e g r e e murder.

As to State's Exhibit 3, Y o u r ' H o n o r ,

this is a photograph showing J o e ' s condition
as observed by the crime scene personnel.
What we are talking about here i s c r i m e scene personnel who were trying to r e c o n s t r u c t and determine the sequence of events. Now, they

have an account from M s . Bobbie P r o c k , but she
is extremely distraught. S h e ' s in t h e

emergency room being treated for b u r n s and s m o k e inhalation. I t ' s relevant to their
investigation to
show what
Joe's

condition was

at the t i m e and the condition in which t h e y

identified' him and the extent o f the b u r n s . around his clothing.
As to State's Exhibit 4 , t h i s s h o w s the

fact that Joe's body was s t i l l p r o d u c i n g blood. You know, one o f the i s s u e s is the

manner and cause of death, and while the defense claims they want t o s t i p u l a t e , again, the problem is, we have to talk a b o u t the mechanism of death. We have t o talk a b o u t

what t h a t me'ans about what w e a p o n . w a s used.
So since a mere stipulation to c a u s e i s

s o m e w h a t meaningless and e m p t y in t h i s case,

I

we n e e d t o b e a b l e t o t a l k a b o u t t h e f u l l
circumstances of Joe's condition. This photograph shows that his body was still p r o d u c i n g blood w h i l e o n the scene. I t s h o w s
the burn and it does allow for the witnesses

who were able to identify Joe before turning him o v e r t o testify a s t o w h a t t h e y s a w in making that identification.

As t o photograph f i v e , t h i s i s a
photograph f r o m a s c e n e t h a t is not e x t r e m e l y

close-up.

While d i s c o l o r a t i o n i s v i s i b l e on

J o e , I think i t ' s a r g u a b l e t h a t i t ' s e x p l i c i t . What it does show is that he was bound and
p l a c e d o u t s i d e of t h e h o u s e b y
the firemen.

T h e y w i l l be here t o e l a b o r a t e o n e x a c t l y t o w h a t e x t e n t they t u r n e d Joe. In fact, defense

counsel's argument sort of turns on itself b e c a u s e they h a d t o m o v e J o e , l o o k i n g a t h i s b o d y o n the s c e n e was i m p o r t a n t i n k n o w i n g h o w he was positioned inside the house. If you

d o n ' t look at where b u r n s were, y o u c a n ' t t e l l w h i c h s i d e h e was l y i n g o n a n d a l l o f t h o s e t h i n g s , so by e x a m i n i n g w h e r e t h e b u r n s a r e , they w e r e a b l e t o r e a c h c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t how h e was positioned w h e n h e was b e a t e n a n d burned. I believe that that photograph is

admissible and relevant for that purpose. As t o p h o t o g r a p h s i x , a g a i n , t h i s i s clearly not an explicit photograph. It

p e r m i t s a d e g r e e o f d e t a i l t o i d e n t i f y the C h r i s t m a s s y n a t u r e of the t a p e t h a t was u s e d

,.. ..

1
2

to bind Joe's ankles and i s in n o way prejudicial. Photograph seven i s a clear

3

4
5
6
7

identificat,ion on-the-scene photograph.

It's

when they have turned Joe to the side to allow everyone to view his face and confirm that that is in fact who they were dealing with, the extent, nature and positioning of his injuries on the scene prior t o a n y , as the

8

9

10
11
12

defense alleges, alternation by the coroner.
As to State Exhibit 8 , this i s a

close-up photograph depicting the extent of the injuries to Joe's wrists and the fact that

13

14
15
16
17

t h e y were v e r y t i g h t l y b o u n d .

I believe t h a t

clearly since kidnapping is an e l e m e n t and a
predicate felony for first degree murder that the fact that the victim was bound with his hands behind his back by telephone cord i s immensely relevant and appropriate for the
,

18 19
20 21 22 23 24

determination as well as its consequences for arson and the other elements of the offense. THE COURT: I'm sorry. One question.

This is the hand, correct? MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Yes, sir. Those are

25
26

his hands. It is a close-up photograph o f his hands bound behind his back with the telephone cord. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. State's Exhibit 9,

27 28 29

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

30
31

this is where we are getting into what the defense alleges about the alterations to the body. N O W , clearly, the coroner did have to
18

32

5734

1

a l t e r the body. T h i s i s a p h o t o g r a p h in which the t o p 'of Mr. P r o c k ' s h e a d w a s r e m o v e d t o see h o w far i n t o the c r a n i a l c a v i t y t h e i n j u r i e s e x t e n d e d . And t o the l e f t o f t h e p h o t o g r a p h ,

2
3
4

5
6

I you can see i n w a r d b e v e l i n g in t h e s k u l l .
B a s i c a l l y , they c r u s h e d in o n e of t h e t h i c k e s t p a r t s of h i s s k u l l ; t h a t s h o w s t h a t t h i s was not some accidental blow. You k n o w , the n o t i o n t h a t w e c a n ' t s h o w
any

7
8
9
10

photographs where the coroner altered a

11

v i c t i m ' s body would mean t h a t we w o u l d n e v e r be able to opine about internal injuries. I m e a n , you h a v e t o b e a b l e t o g o i n t o t h e b o d y

12
13

14
15

t o s e e w h e r e t h e t r a u m a w e n t . And, y o u k n o w ,
coroner Dr. Peretti had to cut into M r . Prock
t o s e e where h i s i n j u r i e s w e r e a n d h o w d e e p a n d s e v e r e they were in d e t e r m i n i n g t h e c a u s e o f death. T h a t ' s the p u r p o s e o f t h e p h o t o g r a p h marked No. 9.
THE COURT:

16
17 18
19 20 21

Is t h i s the t o p o r b a c k of

his head?
MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29

Y e a h , t h i s i s the top They have removed,

l o o k i n g d o w n a t the t o p .

there's a side photograph at the end, that they r e m o v e d the top o f h i s s c u l l a n d h i s b r a i n t o s h o w the d a m a g e t o t h e i n s i d e of h i s skull.
THE COURT: All right.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

You can seen it to

30
31 32

t h e left.

I t ' s the l i g h t e r p o r t i o n .
A l l right.

THE COURT:

Thank you.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

P h o t o g r a p h No. 10 i s

where the scalp has been peeled back. Again,
L

I
I

2

this i s where the coroner has done exploratory procedures to see the depth and extent o f the injuries, and it shows two very essential things. One is it does show the d e p t h . a n d

3

4

5

6
7

s e v e r i t y of one o f t h e i n j u r i e s t o Mr. Prock's
head. It also shows on the part of the scalp that many of the other wounds that d i d not actually penetrate the skull did completely

8
9

10
11

penetrate the scalp. I believe

- - I'm not a

doctor - - but I believe t h o s e a r e t h e subgaleal hemorrhages that he talks about in his coroner's report. Again, I don't know what a subgaleal hemorrhage i s until Dr. Peretti

12
13 14

15
16
17
18
19 20
'

e x p l a i n s i t , showing me t h i s p i c t u r e , a n d I'm
a lawyer who has prosecuted dozens of homicide
cases. To ask the jury to just g e t i t from
'I

subgaleal hemorrhage,

'I

I think i s prejudicial

to the ability of the State t o present i t s case and meet its burden of proof. Photograph 1 1 i s a similar photograph again showing the injuries through the scalp and a different point of impact on Joe's skull, showing again penetration o f the skull. State's Exhibit 1 2 i s a photograph prior t o the removal of the scalp, and this is an essential photograph as well because what i s o f great importance i s the shape, depth and nature of the wounds to Mr. Prock's scalp. One

21
22 23 24 25 26 27
28

29

30
31
32

of the elements that the State will intend to
prove i s identity. And again, I doubt the defense is willing to stipulate t o identity

I

'\

-'

'

0
15

since, you know, that would pretty much be a guilty plea. A gun was recovered where
3

Mr. Dorsey lived, and we have witnesses that are going to place that gun in h i s hand. The

4

bottom of that g u n s h a p e is e n t i r e l y
consistent with some of the i n j u r i e s . i n f l i c t e d to Mr. Prock's scalp. The State should be entitled t o show the shape of those injuries and their depth and then show that Mr. Dorsey

I

10
11
12 13

had a gun perfectly consistent with

inflicting

exactly those types of injuries. That goes directly t o identity, and it again goes to intent to kill and being armed with a

14
15

dangerous weapon which i s an element for the
aggravated kidnapping a l l e g e d b y t h e S t a t e . The next photograph No. 1 3 shows again in even greater detail, b u t from a different angle, the injures to Mr. Prock's scalp, showing the shape, nature and depth of those injuries. State's Exhibit 1 4 i s additional injuries t o Mr. Prock but completely different ones from the previous two photographs. You

16
17

18

19
20 21 22 23 24
25

know, i t ' s not the State's fault that nine blows of nearly killing force were inflicted to Mr. Prock's head, but the jury, I think, is entitled to know just how badly he was beaten so there's no issues as t o the intent of the offenders. Again, Dr. Peretti should be allowed to talk about the types of instruments that could cause these types of wounds and be allowed to
21

26
27 28 29

30 31 32

5737

I

.

1

Dr. P e r e t t i t o o p i n e a b o u t the d u r a t i o n of w h i c h - - o f the b u r n s t o M r . P r o c k ; i n other w o r d s , h o w l o n g was he b u r n i n g b e f o r e t h e f i r e

was put out.
5
6
7

It allows him to make certain

observations a b o u t t h e t i s s u e u n d e r n e a t h t h e
b u r n a s t o whether o r n o t Mr. P r o c k w a s a l i v e a t the time h e was s e t on f i r e w h i c h h e was. It a l l o w s him to reach s e v e r a l c o n c l u s i o n s about Mr. Prock's condition, and it does also
identify Mr.
Prock
as

8
9
10

the person

upon whom

all

the other autopsy photos were being performed.

12
13
14

So I mean, , w e h a v e g o t s i x t e e n
p h o t o g r a p h s here, t w o o f them a r e c l e a r l y n o t
even

within the b o u n d s o f ' g r u e s o m e o r

15
16
17

e x p l i c i t , and the o t h e r s e a c h s h o w s o m e i n d e p e n d e n t f a c t or c o r r o b o r a t e s s o m e i n d e p e n d e n t f a c t b e y o n d mere c a u s e o f d e a t h . A n d what a l l the c a s e s t h a t M r . G a r r e t c i t e s t a l k a b o u t i s in f a c t t h e b a l a n c i n g t e s t . And it w o u l d b e p r e j u d i c i a l t o t h e S t a t e if we w e r e forced t o h a v e a c o l d s t i p u l a t i o n as t o c a u s e of d e a t h b u t n o t t a l k a b o u t h o w t h o s e c a u s e s were c o n s i s t e n t w i t h t h e w e a p o n M r . Dorsey h a d , h o w t h o s e c a u s e s w e r e c o n s i s t e n t with a n i n t e n t t o k i l l , h o w t h o s e c a u s e s were c o n s i s t e n t w i t h k i d n a p p i n g a p e r s o n , h o w t h o s e c a u s e s w e r e c o n s i s t e n t with the aggravated arson of Ms. Bobbie Prock's home. I t a l s o d o e s h a v e s o m e r e l e v a n c e as t o c o r r o b o r a t e the n a t u r e a n d e x t e n t o f Ms. B o b b i e P r o c k ' s s i t u a t i o n . She's going'to

18
19 20 2 1 22

23
24 25

26
27

28
29
30

31
32

c o m e in h e r e a n d t e s t i f y a f t e r h a v i n g b e e n through this, and her state of mind at the time is something that is fair game for both s i d e s t o talk about.
5

I think that the jurors

s h o u l d be e n t i t l e d to k n o w w h a t s h e w a s l o o k i n g a t when h e r s t a t e o f m i n d w a s f o r m e d . You k n o w , h e r a b i l i t y t o r e c a l l f a c t s a n d h e r a b i l i t y t o a s s e s s d e t a i l s may b e s l i g h t l y

6

7
8

9
10

impaired by the fact that she s a w h e r son in
t h i s condition. We're n o t o f f e r i n g i t t o p r e j u d i c e the jury, b u t I t h i n k w e ' r e e n t i t l e d t o d o a n y t h i n g we c a n within t h e b o u n d s of e v i d e n c e t o s h o w why a w i t n e s s m i g h t n o t h a v e

11

12
13

14
15
16

had every cool reflection in their observation
of the crime t h a t w a s b e i n g p e r p e t r a t e d on
them. So I b e l i e v e t h a t the p u r p o s e s a n d the p r o b a t i v e value o f t h e s e p h o t o g r a p h s i s way b e y o n d merely c a u s e of d e a t h . I b e l i e v e that if the defense were to offer to stipulate to any o f the o t h e r f a c t s t h a t w e g e t i n t o d a n g e r o u s a r e a s where y o u ' r e n o w s t r i p p i n g the S t a t e o f its c a s e . You k n o w , t h e d e f e n s e i s n o t allowed - - a n d i t ' s c l e a r f r o m c a s e s t h a t both the defense and the State cite - - is not a l l o w e d to s i m p l y s t i p u l a t e a w a y t h e S t a t e ' s c a s e a n d l e a v e u s t o c o m e i n w i t h o n e p i e c e of e v i d e n c e a n d say, well, y e a h , a l l t h a t s t u f f , we a l l agree, but, y o u k n o w , i t w a s h i m . So s i n c e they a r e n o t s t i p u l a t i n g t o i d e n t i t y , s i n c e the; can't logically stipulate to

17
18

19

20 21 22
23
24 25 26

27
28 29

30
31

32

i n t e n t , we s h o u l d t b e a l l o w e d t o p r e s e n t a l l

_ _ _ _ ~

1
2

evidence of the predicate felonies a n d t h e

6

7

8 9

THE COURT: MR. G A R R E T :

You may. Thank you.
I

I
I

10
11
12
13

Mr. O'Callaghan has addressed w h a t he believes
Dr. Peretti can and can't do, and he is a

designate.

Dr. P e r e t t i is an e x p e r t in

d e s c r i b i n g w o u n d s to a j u r y . He h a s n o t indicated anytime to us that h e ' n e e d e d photographs to do that, and he appears to be q u i t e able t o c a r r y o n t h a t p a r t of t h e p r o o f .
I a l s o t h i n k t h a t w e a r e c o n f u s i n g -t h e

14
15
16
17

18
19

guilt phase with the penalty phase. phase does not involve mitigating and aggravating factors.

The guilt

20 2 1

The State either proves

its case beyond a reasonable doubt or it doesn't. Extent, depth, et cetera, those may

22 23

be relevant to the penalty phase, but I mean, we are not going to contest that the victim i s deceased. Now, Mr. O'Callaghan has tried t o dismiss the possibility of a stipulation. said a couple of things. He

24
25
26

27

28
29

He says that there Well,

are things that we won't stipulate to.

30
31
32

w e ' r e p r o b a b l y t h e b e s t s o u r c e of w h a t w e w i l l stipulate to. He h a s s a i d a s t i p u l a t i o n would

strip away the State's case and only permit
25

1

them with o n e item o f proof.

I suspect they

1

2

wouldn't sign such a stipulation, so I d o n ' t think that's really a danger. In terms of how the fire occurred, the

3
, ~4
I

5
6

police know how the fire occurred. It's in their police reports. evidence there. There is n o lack of

I

7

We are looking for a

I

'

8
9

substantial necessity because of a failure of evidence, and t h a t ' s not here. The State has said we can't stipulate to specific intent. fact to stipulate. Specific intent is not a Specific intent i s a

10
11

12

13
14

conclusion that the jury reaches or not based

on the evidence.

And whether or not there are

15
16
17
18 19 20

internal i n j u r i e s , again, perhaps f o r t h e
penalty phase a s to whether the victim suffered or not', how badly the victim was beaten, again, we're not contesting he's still alive. This would merely be something more for the penalty phase. Deep and profound fractures, I think is probably more relevant to the penalty phase. The depth and nature of the injuries, we think Dr. Peretti is well able, well experienced, I see n o evidence that he is unable t o express himself in a way that jurors can understand so that his testimony would b e meaningless. The bottom line here i s , this evidence i s not essential. It does not have a

21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 3 1 32

substantial necessity to be entered. It is, in fact, incredibly prejudicial. Incredibly gruesome photographs. And all o f the reasons

I lsll

We t h i n k e v e r y t h i n g t h a t t h e S t a t e w a n t s t o s h o w t h a t Mr. O ' C a l l a g h a n j u s t s a i d they want to show can be shown, and that obviates the s u b s t a n t i a l n e c e s s i t y , and t h a t means all we a r e l e f t with i s p h o t o g r a p h s t h a t I t h i n k we

fI3-1
E9d

O' b

8
llhl

p"'

8 ql
49

w o u l d a s k for their e x c l u s i o n .

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:
a few o f t h o s e t h i n g s .
THE COURT:

May I r e s p o n d t o j u s t

You may. F i r s t of a l l , I d o n ' t

MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N :

k n o w i f Mr. G a r r e t h a s t a l k e d t o Dr. P e r e t t i ,
but I have and he says, just look at the p i c t u r e s , it m a k e s i t a l o t c l e a r e r . So the notion that he doesn't need the pictures to e x p l a i n h i m s e l f when h e ' s t a l k i n g t o an experienced homicide prosecutor and still s a y s , l e t ' s l o o k at the p i c t u r e s is, t o me, s i m p l y inaccurate. Mr. Garret implied that all of the things we're talking about wanting to prove are t h i n g s for the p e n a l t y p h a s e , b u t t h e y are not. A g g r a v a t e d a r s o n i s a p r e d i c a t e f e l o n y f o r t h e crime not t h e p e n a l t y b u t t h e c r i m e of f i r s t d e g r e e murder. K i d n a p p i n g i s a p r e d i c a t e felony for the crime, not the penalty, of f i r s t d e g r e e murder. A n d t h e i n t e n t t o k i l l m o r e t h a n o n e p e r s o n i s an a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e for the g u i l t p h a s e a s w e l l as t h e penalty phase o f f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r . So

all of these things are wrapped inextricably t o the S t a t e ' s b u r d e n o f p r o o f . Basically, y o u k n o w , t h e f a c t t h a t the p o l i c e reached t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n in t h e i r reports doesn't change the fact that it was b a s e d o n observation a n d e v i d e n c e a n d t h a t t h e y s h o u l d b e allowed t o e x p l a i n t h e validity of that observation and evidence. A n d the

n o t i o n t h a t the d e p t h o f w o u n d s i s n o t
10

r e l e v a n t t o proving s p e c i f i c i n t e n t , t h a t that's some conclusion, I mean, Mr. Garret k i n d of made my a r g u m e n t f o r m e , s p e c i f i c i n t e n t i s a c o n c l u s i o n y o u r e a c h o n l o o k i n g at

11

12

13

14
15

the facts.

Well, if they can't look a t the

f a c t s , you k n o w , h o w they c a n t h e y r e a c h that c o n c l u s i o n ? T h e r e were d e e p i n j u r i e s t o h i s h e a d d o e s n ' t d o it. There were deep injuries,

16
17

18
19

repeated injuries, multiple injuries and h e r e ' s what they were, a n d t h e y c a m e f r o m an i t e m j u s t like t h i s w e a p o n , t h a t g o e s t o identity and specific intent. And I d i d a l s o n o t a d d r e s s , b u t I w o u l d , you k n o w , r e m i n d t h e C o u r t , y o u k n o w , t h e r e were troubling a l l e g a t i o n s i n d e f e n s e ' s m o t i o n a b o u t a p u r p o r t e d l y t h r e a t e n i n g e- mail.

20 21 22
23 24 25

26
27
28 29 30

I p r o v i d e d the C o u r t with a c o p y o f t h a t
e- mail. You k n o w , a s I s a i d i n m y r e s p o n s e ,

you k n o w , I'm a t a loss t o s e e w h a t p a r t o f t a k e c a r e , t h a n k s ' f o r your c o u r t e s y , a n d we're r e s e r v i n g our r i g h t s to l i t i g a t e a q u e s t i o n i s in a n y way threatening. A n d I d i d f e e l t h a t t h a t w a s a fairly s t r o n g a l l e g a t i o n t o m a k e
28

31
32

5744:

--..

1
2

based on my e-mail. That's all I have. MR. GARRET: Your Honor, I just want to

3

remind the Court in our motion aside from

4
5

asking for the exclusion of these materials,
if the Court admits them, and we disagree
strongly that they should be admitted, I want to remind the Court that we have also asked for low contrast black and whites instead

9

which if the Court disagrees w i t h u s on the

I

10 11 12

exclusion we feel would adequately serve all the needs here. THE COURT: All right. Thank you both

13
14
15

for your arguments.

In connection with the

motion to suppress gruesome guilt phase photographs in evidence, I do not find, first o f all, that all of the photographs are explicit; however, the photographs that are in question, if relevant or admissible, if the probative value, outweighs i t s prejudicial impact.
I

I

16
17
18

I

19
20
2 1 22

The State has gone through the

photos, at least sixteen - - and they are color photos - - and stated its reasons and purpose for wanting t o admit such photographs into evidence in this particular case. Based upon

23
24 25 26

the reasons stated by the State, the Court finds that the photographs have their relevancy. In addition, the Court finds that

27

28
29
30

the probative value would outweigh any prejudicial effect in this case. I believe sufficient reasons have been stated by the State, and therefore the Court will deny the motion to suppress gruesome guilt phase

31
32

1
2 3

photographs i n evidence.
I would note the d e f e n s e ' s objection to

the Court's ruling for the r e c o r d ; however, I d o believe that the State has a r i g h t to

4

p r e s e n t its c a s e .

They c a r r y t h e b u r d e n o f

proof. I d o not believe t h a t black and w h i t e photos would have the effect t h a t t h e defense
8
9
10

argues in this matter, and I b e l i e v e t h a t the State h a s a right to present i t s case.
B e c a u s e i t carries the burden

of proof, it has

11
12 13

a right to present the color p h o t o s .

I d o not

find any relevant reasons s t a t e d why the color p h o t o s should not be allowed a n d s h o u l d be

14
15

r e p l a c e d w i t h b l a c k and w h i t e p h o t o s , so t h a t
request i s also denied. And your objection, Mr. G a r r e t , to the Court's ruling i s noted for the r e c o r d . MR. GARRET: Thank you, Your H o n o r . Your H o n o r , I would

16
17

18 19
20 2 1 22 23
24

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

ask, with the C o u r t ' s permission, t h a t the C o u r t place i t s copy o f the p h o t o g r a p h s in record. (Whereupon a discussion o f f the r e c o r d was held. ) (Whereupon the foregoing e x h i b i t s were filed i n t o the record.) T H E COURT: For the record, during this

25
26 27
28

argument on the motion to s u p p r e s s , the jury was not present. I t was d o n e o u t s i d e the

29

30 31 32

presence o f the j u r y .
L

So the first person o n the prospective

list will be Mr. Posey from y e s t e r d a y ' s panel,
30

5746

t

_-._

e
the MR. THOMPSON: S t a t e of

1
-

--. . '
_.:'
I,

a

I
and t h e r e are a t l e a s t f i f t e e n o t h e r s .
(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f held. ) r e c o r d was

;:e

dl*u

'"P

W w i l l formally call e
Louisiana vs.

t h e case of Felton

Dorsey,

D o c k e t No.

251,406.

The

defendant i s present with t h e counsel,
Mr.
9

Alan Golden and M r .

Glen Garret.

I

Dhu

Thompson f o r t h e d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y ' s
W e

10
11
12

office.

are ready t o proceed with voir

13
14

are o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e of t h e j u r y w a i t i n g
on
the

panel.

15

(Whereupon t h e v e n i r e p a n e l w a s courtroom.)
THE

seated i n t h e

16
17

COURT:

Good m o r n i n g ,
W e

everyone.

I

ia
19
20

do apologize f o r t h e delay.

had t o t a k e up

a few m a t t e r s o u t s i d e your p r e s e n c e b e f o r e w e
started. jury
W e

a r e now r e a d y t o c o n t i n u e w i t h

21
22 23 24 25 26

selection.
Let me,

f i r s t of

all,

say t h a t every State of

person

charged with a felony i n the

I

Louisiana i s e n t i t l e d t o a t r i a l by j u r y accordi'ng t o t h e laws o f the State of States

Louisiana and those of Constitution. inconvenience jury; however,
I

the United

27
28 29 30 31 32

realize t h a t it is an
you t o s e r v e on t h e f o r you t o justice t o

f o r some o f

it i s necessary

serve i n o r d e r f o r o u r system of
function properly.
I would a l s o

like t o take this t i m e

t o

31

5747

I

1

read t o you

the

qualifications

that

are

2
I

required of One,

you i n o r d e r t o serve on t h e j u r y . United States

3
4

y o u m u s t be a c i t i z e n o f
the

and of

State of

Louisiana and have resided

5

i n Caddo P a r i s h f o r a t l e a s t one y e a r p r i o r t o

6
I
8
9

today.

T w o , yo'u m u s t b e a t l e a s t e i g h t e e n
Three,

years of age.

you m u s t able t o read,
Four,

I

I

w r i t e and speak t h e English language.

you m u s t be n o t i n t e r d i c t e d o r i n c a p a b l e of s e r v i n g b e c a u s e of's m e n t a l o r p h y s i c a l
infirmity.
Five,
you

10
11

m u s t

not

be

under

12

i n d i c t m e n t fo,r a f e l o n y n o r c o n v i c t e d o f

a

13

f e l o n y f o r which you h a v e n o t b e e n p a r d o n e d .
If

14
15

any of

you

f e e l t h a t y o u d o n o t meet

t h e necessary

qualifications, w o u l d y o u p l e a s e

16
17 18
19

form a 1in.e on t h e w a l l over h e r e b e h i n d t h e
rail,

a n d I w i l l be h a p p y t o t a l k t o a b o u t

that.
(No response. ) THE COURT:

20
21 22
23
24 25 26

Also,

some o f

y o u may h a v e

r e a s o n s t h a t you f e e l t h a t you c a n n o t serve.
I want

t o s a y t o you t h a t
I

I

am very limited i n
from j u r y

the

reasons that

c a n e x c u s e you

duty.

In addition,

as I stated earlier,

in

order f o r our system t o survive,

w e must have

w i l l i n g j u r o r s t h a t are w i l l i n g t o serve on
the

27
28 29

jury.

L e t

m e see i f

there

is anyone w i t h
that

any planned surgeries o r things of nature,
i f

you would,

show m e y o u r h a n d s . Can you come o v e r h e r e

30
31 32

There is one.

and l e t m e t a l k t o you.
Is there anyone w i t h planned v a c a t i o n ?

(No response. )
THE COURT:

Is t h e r e a n y o n e w h o a l s o

f e e l t h a t they c a n n o t s e r v e on t h e j u r y f o r any reason? Two.

A l l right.

(Whereupon a discussion off the record was held. )
8

T H E C O U R T : C a n you a l l a p p r o a c h .

9
10
11
12

(Whereupon a side-bar discussion o f f the
record was held.)
T H E COURT: leave.

Ms. H o l m e s , y o u a r e f r e e to

13
14
15

Ms. B e n n e t t , you are f r e e t o leave.
Ms. Heable, you are f r e e t o l e a v e .
And, M r . P o s e y , y o u a r e f r e e t o leave. ( W h e r e u p o n the a f o r e s a i d v e n i r e m e m b e r s were e x c u s e d from the panel.) THE COURT: Again, w e l c o m e t o the This is a

16
17 18 19

F i r s t J u d i c i a l District Court. criminal section of court.

20
21
22 23 24

This trial is

s c h e d u l e d t o last a p p r o x i m a t e l y t w o w e e k s . This is a sequestered trial. You will not be

s e q u e s t e r e d today or t o m o r r o w ; h o w e v e r , a t s o m e p o i n t , p o s s i b l y S a t u r d a y , we w i l l b e g i n s e l e c t i n g j u r o r s and we w i l l b e g i n s e q u e s t e r i n g jurors. And t h a t i s c o m m o n l y

25
26
27

r e f e r r e d t o a s a l o c k - u p jury, m e a n i n g , t h a t if s e l e c t e d , you w i l l s t a y a t h o t e l accommodations, and you will be taken care of by the s h e r i f f ' s d e p a r t m e n t . They will

28 29 30
31

p r o v i d e y o u r meals a n d t h i n g s o f t h a t n a t u r e . They will make all necessary arrangements for

32

-

you.

A n d t h e t r i a l may l a s t a w e e k ,

a week

and a h a l f a t t h a t p o i n t . are looking at,

So t h i s i s what w e

at this point.
you t o the

W are going t o c a l l a l l of e
jury box at t h i s p o i n t .

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f held. )
THE COURT:

t h e r e c o r d was

Ma'am

clerk,

w o u l d you

please c a l l t h e prospective j u r o r s .
10

11
12 13

WHEREUPON.

. .
seated:
Mark N a t a l e

the

f o l l o w i n g v e n i r e members w e r e

J u r o r One:

14
15

Juror Two:
Juror Three: Juror Juror Juror Juror Four: Five: Six: Seven:

Cheryl D. Thornton
Joann S. Stewart
Edwards

16
17

Irma L .

Ronald T.

Olague

18

Danny W a l k e r Monica M.
Carlita R.

19
20

Hicks
Dixon

Juror Eight: J u r o r Nine: J u r o r Ten: Juror Eleven: J u r o r Twelve: Juror Thirteen:

21 22
23
24 25

C h a r l e s Walters, Sharon S n e l l i n g Marvin J e f f e r s o n
Carrie Clay

Jr.

S e t h Thomas

26
27

THE

COURT:

Would e a c h o f

you p l e a s e

28
29 30

stand,

r a i s e y o u r r i g h t h a n d a n d be s w o r n .

( W h e r e u p o n t h e v e n i r e p a n e l was d u l y s w o r n . )
THE

COURT:

This i s called voir dire trial You

31
32

examination.
7

This is the only phase of ask questions.

where t h e a t t o r n e y s w i l l

will be allowed to ask questions.

Feel free

t o a s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t you d e e m n e c e s s a r y to ask.
4

I f you want a n e x p l a n a t i o n f o r s o m e t h i n g , t h i s is the t i m e t o a s k . The

5

6
7
'8

attorneys m.ay not be able to answer every
q u e s t i o n ; h o w e v e r , they w i l l e x p l a i n that to y o u , b u t feel f r e e t o a s k a n y t h i n g y o u w a n t to ask. I f y o u n e e d an e x p l a n a t i o n , t h e y w i l l bel If you n e e d them t o

I

9
10

h a p p y t o g i v e it to you.

11
12 13

rephrase or restate something, they will be
.happy t o d o that for you.

If you a r e a s k e d

s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l i s t o o p r i v a t e o r t o o p e r s o n a l t o b e d i s c u s s e d in t h e p r e s e n c e of

14

15
16
17 18
19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26

everyone, simply say so and we will talk to
you privately about that m a t t e r o u t s i d e the
p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s . I t i s i m p o r t a n t t h a t y o u s p e a k u p when you are answering because the court reporter is recording everything that is being said.
S o we n e e d you t o s p e a k u p , so t h a t s h e c a n

I

h e a r a s well a s the o t h e r a t t o r n e y s t h a t are involved in the litigation. Let me i n t r o d u c e t h e a t t o r n e y s i n v o l v e d in this litigation. R e p r e s e n t i n g t h e S t a t e of

L o u i s i a n a i s the e l e c t e d D i s t r i c t A t t o r n e y , Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t , Mr. Dhu T h o m p s o n , a n d Mr. Brady O'Callaghan. Representing the

'7 2 28
29 30
31

a c c u s e d i s M r . Alan G o l d e n , Mr. David McClatchey. Ms. Michelle AndrePont

s t e p p e d o u t f o r j u s t a m o m e n t . Mr. G l e n G a r r e t has stepped out also for just a moment.
35

32

The

1
2
3

I

a c c u s e d i s Felton D o r s e y . Again, there a r e n o r i g h t a n d w r o n g answers. T h e best a n s w e r i s a t r u t h f u l

4
5
6

answer.
With that, is the State to ready proceed. MR. T H O M P S O N :
\

7

We are, Your Honor.

8

(Whereupon a PowerPoint presentation prepared

9
10
11
12

by t h e S t a t e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e
panel. )

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION BY M R . T H O M P S O N :

13
1 4

Q.

G o o d morning,' l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n .

15

As p r e v i o u s l y i n t r o d u c e d , my n a m e i s

16

D h u T h o m p s o n , a n d I'm an a s s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y h e r e in C a d d o P a r i s h . And I ' m

17
18
19
20

j o i n i n g M r . Brady O ' C a l l a g h a n a l o n g w i t h t h e d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y , Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t , a s a p r o s e c u t i o n team h e r e in t h e c a s e o f S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a vs. F e l t o n Dorsey. As the j u d g e h a s i n d i c a t e d , t h i s i s a first degree murder charge, and it carries a capital punishment sentence option in this case.
So, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , l e t me s t a r t

2 1
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 28 30

off b y s t a t i n g t h a t I k n o w t h i s m i g h t b e t h e f i r s t t i m e s o m e of you h a v e e v e r b e e n in c o u r t in t h i s t y p e of s i t u a t i o n , a n d I k n o w i t m i g h t b e a l i t t l e i n t i m i d a t i n g at t h i s t i m e . W h a t I'm going t o t r y t o do i s t o r e l a x y o u in your s e a t s t o t e l l you t h a t , as the j u d g e s t a t e d , t h e r e ' s n o r i g h t o r w r o n g

31
32

L

1
I

1

answers here,
I want

just truthful,

honest opinions.

2

t o s t a t e f o r t h o s e who h a v e n e v e r d o n e sometimes I ' v e had in the line

I
I

3
4

t h i s process before,

e x p e r i e n c e s where I have j u r o r s

5
6

g i v i n g m e t h e same a n s w e r ,
maybe
on
the

and t h e n a j u r o r
t h i r d

second

r o w

or

r o w

has

a

7
8

d i f f e r e n t answer or a d i f f e r e n t opinion and d o e s n ' t w a n t t o be t h a t i n d i v i d u a l t h a t s t a n d s and says w e l l ,
I have

9

a d i f f e r e n t o p i n i o n from

10
11
12

t h e r e s t o f t h e g r o u p or maybe I shouldn't
state t h i s opinion because t h a t ' s not the
r i g h t answer. gentlemen, Keep i n mind,

ladies and

13

t h e r e i s no r i g h t o r wrong a n s w e r s . your
to

14
15
honest,

And i n t h e s e i m p o r t a n t c a s e s ,
t r u t h f u l

internal

opinion

is

going

16

h e l p us best
case.

i n our jury selection i n this i n mind,
this

17

So k e e p

i s an open- ended
L

18

forum.

If

you h a v e a q u e s t i o n ,

i f

you want t o

19
20

s t o p m e and a s k m e a question,
right t o do t h a t .
I want

you have t h e forum

t o keep t h i s

21

open almost as i f
chat,

we're having a f i r e s i d e

22
23

so i t ' s not stuffy and i t ' s not formal

a n d you c a n be r e l a x e d a n d d i s c u s s y o u r feelings i n reference t o the topics that we are going t o cover today.
I

24 25
26

want t o p u t t h e b l u r b up b e f o r e

I

27
28

begin w i t h the three t o p i c s t h a t w e are going t o c o v e r t o d a y as t o t h e importance of b e c a u s e I know w h e n t h e j u d g e made h i s i n d i c a t i o n t h a t t h i s i s a f i r s t degree murder,
i t ' s going t o take
be

jurors

29
30
31

two w e e k s ,

you a r e g o i n g t o

32

sequestered if, you're

selected f o r t h i s
37

jury, I k n o w there i s a g e n e r a l g u t inclination of, oh, my gosh, that's going to b e a h a r d s h i p , and I a m g o i n g t o h a v e t o r e s c h e d u l e work, a n d I w o n d e r i f I c a n m a y b e s a y s o m e t h i n g t o get o f f the j u r y . A n d I know from m y e x p e r i e n c e , I ' v e h a d m y f r i e n d s say, what d o I n e e d t o s a y , w h a t d o I n e e d t o do, what d o I n e e d t o e x a g g e r a t e t o g e t o f f the jury.
10

W e l l , l a d i e s and g e n t l e m e n , f r o m putting these bullet points up, everyone here t h a t h a s b e e n s e l e c t e d in t o d a y ' s p r o c e s s i s a r e g i s t e r e d voter h e r e in Caddo.
I s that

11
12

13

14
15
16
17

correct?
A.
A. A. A. A.
A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. (By Ms. S t e w a r t ) Yes. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. A n d with t h a t in p l a c e , M s . D i x o n ,

18

19

20
2 1 22 23
24

A.
A. A. A.
A.

25 26 27 28 29 30
31

A.
A.

h a v e y o u e v e r s e e n a news s t o r y a b o u t a c a s e t h a t a f t e r a verdict, you a g r e e o r d i s a g r e e d with a n d you said t o y o u r s e l f , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e they c o n v i c t e d t h a t g u y , o r , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e

32

I

1

that guy walked? situation.

Have y o u e v e r s e e n t h a t

2
I

3
4

A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

Q.

M s . Hicks, h a v e you e v e r s e e n an

5
6

e l e c t i o n , you k n o w , o v e r the l a s t t e n y e a r s ,
whether
it be a local, state o r

national

7

e l e c t i o n , w h e r e y o u s a i d , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e that guy won, or, I can't believe that guy lost?

8
9

A.

(By Ms. H i c k s ) Right.

10
11

Q.

Now, M r . Thomas, i f y o u d o n ' t v o t e in

t h a t e l e c t i o n , you c a n ' t c o m p l a i n a b o u t t h e results?

12
13

A.

(By M r .

T h o m a s ) No.

14

Q.

Ms. Thornton, t o t h a t e x t e n t , i f the'

,15

j u r o r s didn't p a r t i c i p a t e i n t h i s p r o c e s s ,
could t h e r e e v e r be a complaint t h a t t h e
system is not working?
A.

16
17
18

(By Ms. Thornton) No. Okay.

19

Q.

M s . S t e w a r t , the s a m e l i n e of

20
21

q u e s t i o n i n g , in r e f e r e n c e t o the i n t e g r i t y of the s y s t e m , d o you a g r e e or d i s a g r e e t h a t w i t h o u t jury p a r t i c i p a t i o n t h a t t h e s y s t e m would crumble?

22
23

24
25
26 27

A.

(By Ms. Stewart) I agree.
To that e x t e n t , l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n ,

Q.

with t h i s , I want t o s t r e s s the i m p o r t a n c e t h a t i f y o u ' r e a b l e and willing t o s e r v e o n t h i s j u r y , the s y s t e m , t h e i n t e g r i t y o f t h e s y s t e m n e e d s the p a r t i c i p a t i o n of g o o d j u r o r s in o u r p a r i s h in o r d e r t o k e e p t h e s y s t e m r u n n i n g , e s p e c i a l l y with t h e s e t y p e of important cases.
39

Ladies and gentlemen, we have two

I I

2
3

phases o f the voir dire here.

As indicated by

the Court and as charged by the district attorney's office, this i s a capital case.

4
5

So at this point in the voir dire, we are

6

t a l k i n g a b o u t t h r e e s p e c i f i c a r e a s r i g h t now.
The first topic will be sequestration.

The

8

next topic I am going to discuss i s pretrial publicity, and then the third topic, this i s going to be the most important topic that I'm

9

11
12

going to c o v e r in r e f e r e n c e t o who c a n q u a l i f y
t o s i t on this j u r y .
N O W , I know some o f you may have never thought about this issue or, if you
thought about

13

14
15

i t , y o u thought about it in

16

passing as far as your internal views and opinions about the death penalty. But a s I

17

18
19
20

throw this out to you in the beginning, I want you t o start internally thinking about what is your opinion about the death penalty because, keep in mind, we are going to be asking you later on in this presentation whether it's a punishment that you can seriously consider o r whether it would be a punishment that you could impose if the evidence merits it. Now,

21'

22
23
24 25

26

keep in mind, this is where we are going t o seek honest answers. And as a prosecutor who's done plenty of these cases, I've heard every answer in the book. I ' v e heard people say that they c a n ' t I ' v e heard

27
28

29
30
31

d o it under any circumstances.

32

people say that I ' l l d o it no matter what the
40

evidence is.

I've heard people say I ' m We have h e a r d the

neutral to either side.

whole spectrum o f answers so, k e e p in m i n d ,

4
5
6
7
8

ladies and gentlemen, when we get to t h a t
topic t h e r e ' s n o right or wrong answer.
So I

hope t h a t s t a r t s your thinking a s far a s your opinion o n that important topic. L e t me talk to you about the sequestration. When we talk about

9
10

s e q u e s t r a t i o n , that m e a n s n o c o n t a c t with

11

anyone.

O n c e sequestration b e g i n s the s h e r i f f

12 13

will take custody o f you and that d o e s n ' t mean you g o to the C a d d o Correctional C e n t e r . That

14
15
16
17

means you are going to g o to a nice hotel.
the judge indicated, you are g o i n g to b e provided very good meals, and the s h e r i f f ' s office i s going to take care of you t h r o u g h the duration o f the trial. You are g o i n g to

As

18

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

have limited T V and newspaper e x p o s u r e t o maintain the integrity o f the p r o c e e d i n g s so there i s no outside influences coming i n influencing your decision when your decision should b e based o n the facts and t h e e v i d e n c e .
Do you agree with that, Ms. E d w a r d s ?
A.

(By M s . Edwards) Yes.
Do you see why they d o the

Q.

sequestration process?
A.

(By Ms. Edwards) Yes.

29
30
31

Q.

As indicated b y the Court, w e are in

the continuous process of selecting t h i s jury. We anticipate sequestration could b e g i n a r o u n d Friday, maybe Saturday. That i s our t i m e
41

32

_-

I

1

( W h e r e u p o n a side-bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e record was held.) THE COURT: a p p r o a c h , please. (Whereupon a discussion off the record was Ms. S t e w a r t , c o u l d y o u

I

2 3
4

I
~

5

6
7
8
9
\

held. )
THE COURT:
F o r t h e r e c o r d , Ms. S t e w a r t

i s e x c u s e d f o r the r e a s o n s a l r e a d y s t a t e d . ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d f r o m t h e courtroom.) BY MR. THOMPSON:

10
11

12
13

Q.
with y o u . A.

Ms. Edwards, I believe I left off

14

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) (Ju'ror n o d s h e a d . )

15
16
17
18

Q.
A.

Okay.

Would the sequestration p o s e

any i s s u e f o r y o u ?
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. C o u l d you t e l l me a b o u t t h a t . ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) U s u a l l y , w h e n I g e t

Q.
A.
off

19
20
21

work every e v e n i n g , I h a v e t o g o t o m y

d a u g h t e r ' s h o u s e t o take c a r e o f m y g r a n d c h i l d r e n e v e r y day b e c a u s e s h e h a s t o b e a t w o r k from 1 2 : O O t o 8 : O O e v e r y d a y . A n d so

22 23

24
25
26
27

I h a v e t o b e t h e r e when I g e t o f f work t o meet

t h e b u s when they g e t o f f b u s .

They are

e l e m e n t a r y kids f r o m f o u r to eleven.

Q.
A.

These are your grandchildren? (By Ms. Edwards) Uh-huh. Their mother - ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) W o r k s e v e r y d a y . W h a t time d o e s t h e m o t h e r g e t o f f

28

29 30 31

Q.
A.

Q.
work?

32

43

5759

1

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) At 8 : O O

at night.

'

F r o m 12:OO noon until 8 : O O

at night.

Q.

Are y o u the o n l y r e l a t i v e h e r e in

town t h a t c o u l d a s s u m e t h a t r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ? I
5

k n o w y o u r d a u g h t e r probably p r e f e r s y o u ,

6

but - A. ( B y M s . Edwards) Well, a s f a r a s

7
t

8
9
10

s h e ' s c o n c e r n e d , I a m . I mean, o t h e r r e l a t i v e s , I h a v e w o u l d h e l p u s , too.
matter

As a

of f a c t ,

I

have

t w o

sisters.

11

Q.

Would they be a b l e t o a s s u m e t h o s e

12 13

r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s if you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a juror? A.
Q.

14
15

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) W e l l
I

-probably prefers

know y o u r

daughter

16

you. A. (By Ms. Edwards) But m y o l d e s t s i s t e r

17 18

j u s t g o t o u t of the h o s p i t a l f r o m a b l o c k a g e .

19
20 21

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y M s . Edwards) M y o t h e r s i s t e r , I
I

d o n ' t k n o w b e c a u s e s h e ' s a t work e v e r y d a y . d o n ' t k n o w w h e r e s h e i s afterward.

22
23

Q.

Okay.

So you feel t h a t s i t u a t i o n may

24
25

i m p o s e an e x t r e m e h a r d s h i p o n y o u ? A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) Yes, b e c a u s e t h e r e

26 27 28
29 30 31

i s n o o n e t o k e e p them.

Q.

I f you were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in

t h i s c a s e a n d you weren't a b l e t o m a k e any accommodations, how would that affect you as a juror? A. (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.)

32

Q.

I'll a c c e p t whatever a n s w e r y o u g i v e
44

1
2
3

me.
A.
(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) I t w o u l d a f f e c t m e

pretty bad.

4 5

Q.

How would i t affect y o u ? J u s t g i v e m e
I

6
7

I

your best explanation.

A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) In my best

explanation, I w o u l d n ' t be here.

8
9

Q.

Do you f e e l you might be distracted

from these proceedings?

10
11
12 13

I

A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) No.
Would you

Q.

f e e l like y o u c o u l d still

p a y a t t e n t i o n t o the f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e a n d the witnesses?

14
15

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. If we w e r e t o a l l o w y o u to m a k e

Q.

16
17

a c c o m m o d a t i o n s to see if another

relative or a

f a m i l y f r i e n d h e r e in town c o u l d t a k e c a r e o f that responsibility, would that alleviate your hardship? A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. We can certainly make those

18
19
20 2 1 22 23 2 4. 25 26 27 28
29

Q.

accommodations to allow you to do that.

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y . Mr. Olague, d i d I say your name

correctly? A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) 0 - l a - G E E . An 1 1 0 , " a n d

"leg" and an "E."

Q.

A l l right.

Mr. Olague, do you have

any issues with the sequestration topic? A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No, s i r . You w o u l d b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a

30 31
32

Q.

sequestered juror?

A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. Mr. Walker. (By Mr. Walker) I ' v e g o t a s i t u a t i o n

Q.
A.

this w e e k e n d , b u t c a n n o t be c a n c e l e d , a n d

it's

an activity that has been planned for a year.

Q.
here?

Is t h a t s o m e t h i n g you m i n d d i s c u s s i n g

A.
~

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Well, p r i v a t e l y .

Q.
10 A.

D o you want t o d i s c u s s i t i n p r i v a t e ?
(By Mr.
Walker)
Yes.

11

Q.

Okay. I ' l l m a k e t h a t a c c o m m o d a t i o n . Ms. Clay.

12

13
14
15

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) It w o u l d b e

inconvenient, but it would b e okay.

Q.

J u r y s e r v i c e is a l w a y s i n c o n v e n i e n t

16

t o e v e r y b o d y , b u t what w e ' r e s e e k i n g i s w h e t h e r a n y b o d y h a s a n y e x t r e m e h a r d s h i p s . So you w o u l d b e a b l e t o serve a s a s e q u e s t e r e d juror?

17

18
19
20

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) M y h u s b a n d i s a y o u t h

21
22

minister, but he could do without me for a little while.

23
24

Q.

I n o r m a l l y g e t a good r e s p o n s e f r o m

m a r r i e d c o u p l e s with c h i l d r e n .
A.

25 26

(By Ms. Clay) I don't have any kids.

I ' v e o n e on t h e w a y , b u t I d o n ' t h a v e a n y k i d s here.

27

28
29

Q.

I ' v e h e a r d them s a y , s i g n m e u p , I

n e e d the v a c a t i o n .
A.

30

(By Ms. Clay) I've got a vacation to

31
32

w o r k o n , so i t ' s okay.

Q.

Mr. J e f f e r s o n .

1

A.

(By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) I t w o u l d b e

2

b e c a u s e i t ' s t w o weeks.

3

Q.
A.

Okay.

4
5

(By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) B e c a u s e o f my

financial situation that would be the only h a r d s h i p I w o u l d have.

Q.
A.
9

I'm sorry? ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) T h e o n l y h a r d s h i p

I w o u l d h a v e is b e c a u s e of t h e t w o w e e k s I'm

10
11

off work.

Q.
A.

Where d o you work? (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) R e p u b l i c

12

13
14
15

Contractors.
Q.
A.

What type o f work d o you d o t h e r e ?
(By Mr. Jefferson) Plumber. Are you a n h o u r l y e m p l o y e e ? ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

16
17
18

Q.
A.

Q.

Is it f a i r t o s a y t h a t i f y o u d o n ' t

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27
28

work, you d o n ' t g e t p a i d ?
A.

( B y Mr. Jefferson) C o r r e c t . I ' m assuming y o u r b o s s w o n ' t m a k e a n y

Q.

a c c o m m o d a t i o n s to t h a t e f f e c t ? A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I would have to

a s k him a b o u t that.

Q.

You would h a v e t o a s k h i m .

If he

w e r e to m a k e those a c c o m m o d a t i o n s t o y o u r salary, would that alleviate your hardship?
A.

(By Mr. Jefferson) Yeah. If h e w a s n ' t a b l e t o m a k e t h o s e

29
30
31

Q.

a c c o m m o d a t i o n s , that w o u l d p o s e a n e x t r e m e economic hardship? A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) W e l l , n o t e x t r e m e
47

32

Cd'

1

b e c a u s e G o d h a n d l e s a l l my affairs.

Q.

So let me ask you this,

n o t w i t h s t a n d i n g what you h a v e j u s t s t a t e d ,

4
5
6

w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a s e q u e s t e r e d j u r o r i f m a y b e we were t o a l l o w y o u t o c h e c k
on those hardships

i n

reference

t o

your

boss

7

giving your salary during your jury service?

8 9

A.

( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. Any o t h e r h a r d s h i p s we n e e d t o k n o w

Q.

10
11
12
13

about?
A.

(By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.
M s . Snelling. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q.
A.

I work for I

14
15

the school system, and I do evaluations.

h a v e f o u r t e e n e v a l u a t i o n s in t h e p r o c e s s r i g h t now.

16
17

It's the last weeks of school.

They

h a v e t o b e c o m p l e t e d in t h e s e l a s t t w o weeks.
I also tutor high school students for finals,

18

19
20
21

a n d i t w o u l d be very d i f f i c u l t f o r t h e m t o f i n d a n o t h e r tutor a t t h i s l a t e d a t e .

Q.

Okay. Having a mother who is a school

22 23
24 25 26 .

t e a c h e r , I understand.

A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) M y f a t h e r a l s o h a s He just The last one

c a n c e r a n d l i v e s in Baton R o u g e . s t a r t e d t r e a t m e n t was y e s t e r d a y .

was so s e v e r e t h a t they h a d h o s p i t a l i z e h i m and if that happens again, I would have to be w i t h him.

27

28

29
30

Q.

I ' m very s o r r y t o h e a r a b o u t t h a t Ms. Snelling, I am g o i n g t o m a k e a

situation.

31

n o t e h e r e , we may r e a d d r e s s t h i s i s s u e in a p r i v a t e c a p a c i t y later o n i n t h e v o i r d i r e .

32

Mr. Walters. A. ( B y Mr. Walters) J u s t t w o s i t u a t i o n s .

M y w i f e h a s a ruptured d i s k a n d s h e i s g o e s t o t h e n e u r o l o g y on the 2 5 t h t o d e c i d e w h a t k i n d

5
6
7

o f s u r g e r y that may o c c u r , although the
s u r g e r y p r o b a b l y won't be s c h e d u l e r i g h t a w a y . I f i t ' s t w o weeks, i t ' s n o t a p r o b l e m , b u t I d o h a v e vacation that s t a r t s on t h e 7 t h . h a v e a l r e a d y p a i d a n d I won't g e t m y m o n e y
I

8

9

10
11
12 13

back.

Q.
A.

T h e 7 t h of J u n e ? ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yeah.
I h a t e t o make a p r o m i s e , b u t I

Q.

14
15

a n t i c i p a t e we'll b e d o n e b y t h e n .
A.

(By Mr.

Walters)

As

long

as

1 6

a r r a n g e m e n t s could made t h a t m y w i f e c o u l d s p e a k t o the s h e r i f f ' s d e p a r t m e n t a n d l e t me k n o w what r e s u l t s a r e , t h e n I h a v e n o p r o b l e m .

17

18

19
20

Q.
A.

That would alleviate the hardship? (By Mr. Walters) Yes. Ms. Dixon. (By Ms. Dixon) No.
No hardships?

21
22 23 24

Q.
A.

Q.
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) No. O k a y . M s . Hicks. (By Ms. Hicks) I was planning to go

25
26 27 28

Q.
A.

o u t o f town in the morning a n d c o m e b a c k Sunday evening.
,

29
30
31

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) And a l s o my n i e c e i s

g r a d u a t i n g o n the 2 3 r d .

32

Q.

Your n i e c e i s graduat,ing o n t h e 2 3 r d
.

49

.1

which would be Saturday? A. .(By M s . Hicks) Saturday a week. Okay. Let me ask you this as far as

Q.

your out-of-town trip for tomorrow, i s it something that could be rescheduled if you
D

were selected?
A.
(By Ms.
H i c k s )

6 CP
Well,
it

I

has

been

planned for several months. not miss it.

I'd really rather

I

Q.

If you don't mind me asking, is it a

personal vacation or is it business?
A.
(By Ms. Hicks) Yes, personal. I s it

Q.

It's a personal vacation.

something that non-refundable?

A.
Q.
A.

(By Ms. H i c k s ) No.
It's n o t r e f u n d a b l e ?
Oh, yes. I t ' s just a camping trip

with my family.

Q.

Let m e pose a question to you, and
Is

I'll accept whatever answer you give me.
it something that can be rescheduled o r i s it - A.
No.

(By M s . Hicks) (Juror shakes head.)

Q.

So let me ask you this:

I f , y o u were

selected as a juror in this sequestered manner, how would that affect you? . A n d I'll accept whatever answer you give me.
A.

(By Ms. Hicks) It's something I would So I don't g e t . t o see my d a d

like to do. o'ften.

He lives in town, but with my job and

he goes to bed early, so we just never g e t to

visit, a n d h e ' s seventy- two. A n d h e ' s d o w n a t T o l e d o B e n d a l o n e r i g h t now. all the family to come down. He's expecting

m
61

Q.

Would it be something that w o u l d

c r e a t e a s e v e r e strain on y o u r a b i l i t y t o s e r v e a s a j u r o r i f you were s e l e c t e d ? A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) No.

I would be upset.

Q.

Would i t b e s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u m i g h t

h o l d a g a i n s t either of the p a r t i e s ?
10
A.

(By M s .

Hicks) Maybe.

(Laughter.)

11

No.

12
13

Q.
A.

T h i s i s why I d o t h i s p r o c e s s . ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) I w o u l d b e hurt.

14
15
16

Q.

Okay.

I g u e s s the c r u n c h q u e s t i o n i s ,

if s e l e c t e d , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a juror? A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes, b u t I w o u l d n ' t

17 18 19

want t o m i s s my n i e c e ' s g r a d u a t i o n .

Q.
A.

On the 2 3 r d ? (By Ms. Hicks) The 23rd. W e l l , J u d g e Mosely i s very g o o d a t So

20 21 22 23 24
25

Q.

m a k i n g t h e s e c a s e s go very e x p e d i t i o u s l y . h o p e f u l l y , we w i l l b e d o n e by t h e n . A. Okay?

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( J u r o r n o d s head.) Mr. Thomas. ( B y Mr. Thomas) I h a v e a b i c y c l e r a c e

Q.
A.

26 27 28 29 30 31 32

t h i s w e e k e n d t h a t I've a l r e a d y p a i d f o r w h i c h is not a big deal.

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Then' m y s i s t e r

g r a d u a t e s h i g h s c h o o l on the 2 4 t h .

Q.

O f t h i s month?
51

5767

A.

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Um- hum. T o the e x t e n t of y o u r b i c y c l e r a c e ,

Q.

is that something that - -

A.
big deal.

(By Mr. T h o m a s ) I t ' s n o t h i n g t h a t ' s a It's just that i t was sixty-three

dollars, and I have already paid that.

Q.

I played a lot of tennis tournaments,

a n d t h e r e h a s b e e n a l o t of c a s e s w h e r e I ' v e

I

I

had to eat my fee.

So I understand that, but

to the extent that y o u c o u l d d o that - A.
( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I t ' s n o t h i n g s e v e r e .
- - you would b e a b l e t o s e r v e . As t o

Q.

y o u r g r a d u a t i o n o n the 2 3 r d - - is t h a t correct?
A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) The 2 3 r d o r 2 4 t h ,

Sunday.

Q.
then.

I a n t i c i p a t e the c a s e m a y b e o v e r by I d o n ' t want t o m a k e any p r o m i s e s , b u t

t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a j u r o r in t h i s c a s e ?
A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. I s t h e r e anybody e l s e t h a t h a s

Q.

a n y t h i n g they want t o a d d to t h e i r a n s w e r b e f o r e I m o v e t o the n e x t t o p i c . Y e s , ma'am, Ms. E d w a r d s .
I

A.

(By M s . Edwards) I do.

If I am

s e l e c t e d , w o u l d my job b e i n f o r m e d ?

Q.
A.

Yes, ma'am. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y . We w i l l allow you t o m a k e

Q.

a c c o m m o d a t i o n s t o inform your j o b a n d , i f needed, there can be notifications to confirm

...
I

.. . _

.

1

t h a t y o u a r e i n d e e d h e r e in a s e q u e s t e r e d manner.

2
3 4

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) I told my students

y e s t e r d a y a n d t h i s morning.

5
6

Q.
A.

You p u t them o n n o t i c e .
( B y Ms. Edwards) Yes.

7
8 9

Q.
A.

Ms. Clay, did you have your hand up?
( B y Ms. Clay) Would we s t a r t t o m o r r o w

if we g o t p i c k e d ?

10
11

Q-

No, 'ma'am. W e ' r e s t i l l i n t h e
selection.

p r o c e s s of

12
13 14
15

A.

(By M s . C l a y ) O h , o k a y . I w a s j u s t

w o n d e r i n g b e c a u s e I h a v e an a p p o i n t m e n t a t 9 : 3 0 i n the morning.

Q.

You s h o u l d b e a b l e t o make t h a t

16
17
18

appointment tomorrow.
A.

(By M s . C l a y ) O k a y .

Q.

Is t h e r e a n y b o d y e l s e t h a t h a s any'

19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28

q u e s t i o n s .or w a n t s t o a d d t o t h e i r a n s w e r ? Y e s , ma'am, Ms. T h o r n t o n .

A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I d o h a v e v a c a t i o n

p l a n n e d f o r the d a y a f t e r M e m o r i a l D a y , t h a t week.
I d o n ' t know what t h a t - -

Q.
A.

T h a t w o u l d b e the 2 6 t h , 2 7 t h . ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) D o y o u t h i n k i t

would be through by then?

Q.

Once again, I hate to promise that

a n d t h e n we roll i n t o week t h r e e , b u t w e ' r e g o i n g t o t r y our b e s t t o k e e p w i t h i n t h e t i m e f r a m e s t h a t we h a v e g i v e n o u t t o t h e j u r o r s .
A.
( B y M s . Thornton) O k a y .

29 30
31

32

Q.

T o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d t h a t h e l p with

-.

I

1
2

your hardship? A. (By Ms. Thornton) Yes. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, my n e x t

~

3
4

Q.

topic concerns pretrial publicity, a n d t h i s i s where, a s well, too, I want to s t r e s s t o everybody here before you give your answer, this case h a s received some pre - trial publicity when the incident occurred a n d leading up to the trial. I don't know if
on the news or has

10

anybody

has

seen

anything

11

heard anything through community talk o r through any media outlets. If I c o u l d give a

12
13

reminder here at this point, i f you h a v e h e a r d

14
15
16

something in the media about this case, just
let m e know. I don't want you t o g o i n t o a n y
I

extreme details. I just want you to l e t m e know i f y o u ' v e heard anything right o f f the b a t . And then I'm going to explore i t .further. When we talk about the p r e t r i a l
*

17
18
19
20

publicity in this c a s e , , o u r b a s i c a l l e g a t i o n s , the crime occurred April 1 , 2006, at the location o f 8 8 4 5 Greenwood Springridge R o a d , Highway 169, near Greenwood. T h e victim in

21
22

23
24 25

this case, a gentleman by the name of Mr. J o e Prock was killed. H i s mother, victim

26
.27

Bobbie Prock, was also injured in t h i s offense. The Caddo Parish S h e r i f f ' s O f f i c e

28

investigated this case. Now, I can't g e t into a n y m o r e specifics other than that, that's the b a s i c allegations that the law provides u s t o g i v e to you i n this stage of jury s e l e c t i o n .

29
30
31

32

K e e p in mind, M s . S n e l l i n g , w h e n e v e r you s e e a b i g case on TV, are you f a m i l i a r with t h e D r e w Petersen c a s e t h a t ' s g o i n g o n ? A.
5

(By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Urn-hum. With t h a t c a s e , t h a t ' s a p o l i c e

Q.

6
7

officer. He's h a d s e v e r a l wives m i s s i n g n o w . And h e h a s n o w b e e n a r r e s t e d f o r m u r d e r , right?

8

A l o t of p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y , wouldn't

9

you agree?

10
11
12 13

A.
Q.

(By Ms. Snelling) ( J u r o r nods head.)
In those instances, jurors that are

g o i n g t o b e s e l e c t e d u p there, d o y o u t h i n k t h e y s h o u l d b a s e their v e r d i c t on t h e p r e t r i a l publicity?
A.
(By M s .

14
15

Snelling) No.

16

Q.
A.

W h a t s h o u l d they b a s e the v e r d i c t o n ? (By Ms. Snelling) The evidence. The facts and the evidence. W o u l d you a g r e e with t h a t ,

17

18

Q.

19
20

Mr. Walters? A.

21
22

(By M r . Walters) Y e s .
T h i s i s what I want t o t o u c h u p o n . Have you

Q.

23
24
25

I'll s t a r t w i t h y o u , M r . N a t a l e .

h e a r d any p r e t r i a l publicity e x p o s u r e t o t h i s

26

I
I

case?

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I r e c a l l t h e n e w s

27 28 29
30 31 32

a c c o u n t s w h e n i t first h a p p e n e d , a n d t h i s p a s t S u n d a y n i g h t , I r e a d a n a r t i c l e o n it.

Q.

F r o m w h a t your u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f t h e

p r e t r i a l publicity is, i s i t t h e s a m e b a s i c a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t i s p u t u p h e r e on o u r outline?
55

5 7 '7 1-

I

1
2

A.
Q. *

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. W i t h t h i s , h a v e you 'formed a n y

3
~

p r e c o n c e i v e d n o t i o n s o f the d e f e n d a n t ' s gu-ilt or innocence?
A.

4
5

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

No.

,
6
7

Q

Q.

I f you w e r e ' s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in

q

I

t h e c a s e , what would you b a s e y o u r v e r d i c t o n ?

8
9
10

A.

(By Mr. Natale) What was presented as

e v i d e n c e in the trial.

Q.

A n d also i f you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a

11
12 13

j u r o r , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o e x c l u d e a n y t h i n g you m i g h t h a v e heard in the n e w s m e d i a accounts about this case?

14
15
16

A.
Q.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.
And render a d e c i s i o n b a s e d s t r i c t l y

on t h e f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e in the c o u r t r o o m ?
A.

17 18 19
20 2 1

(By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.
M s . Thornton.

Q.
A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) I, too.

I remember

at that time, but I haven't heard anything since.

22
23

.Q.

O k a y . Ms. T h o r n t o n , I ' l l u s e t h i s a s

a c o m m e n t , h a v e you e v e r s e e n a n e w s m e d i a s t o r y t h a t t u r n e d o u t to b e f a l s e d o w n t h e road?
A.

24 25
26

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) O h , s u r e . T h e y a r e n o t in h e r e n o w , so I c a n go

27

Q.

28
29
30

a h e a d a n d s a y t h i s without o f f e n d i n g a n y b o d y , b u t is i t a fair statement t o s a y . t h a t t h e n e w s d o e s n ' t a l w a y s g e t the s t o r i e s r i g h t ? A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) T r u e . Would you a g r e e t h a t t h e n e w s s t o r i e s
56

31 32

Q.

5772

4J

a
L !

c ,

c c , -4 u
-4

a
C rd
[) I

3
0

rd
@.

C rd

u

A h r d
C r d a k

k
0

k
O
O G h r d

a
k
4J

c
C

a,
h c,
-4

a,
rl

U

-4

3

c
0

h a , 7 3 -n
k

u
rd

a
3
d

a,

t J a
r d a ,
UI

4-1

rd a, s

k 3 -n

c, a, 3

C

m
a, 3

3

rb

r d 7
0

E E

0
*.
[) I

w

a,

4-1

-4
h

e

o
h
Icl 0
CI)

7

z

0

h

C

O

m u r d Q Q .u
0
[) I

a a

v

)

h

c
C

a,

u
X

c,

a,
0
4 J c

a, 3

m
rb

c
H
[) I

rd

0

u

m
E

3

c
4 J

7
O Q

a,
0
h

s s
l

rd

a
a , c ,

a,
I

0

u

a, *
h

a ,
4

z

0

.
C 0

cn
a, *
h

0 c,
@.

C 0

c,
fd
k
0

C Ll 0

7 a , 0 3

c,

- l o a h
a
k
0

7

h

s = c, C
0

E
b
[) I

x
[) I

c
d m

a

r

.

c
0
-4

c
B

C k 0

u

C 0
C k 0

-4

Q
rd

E
7
0

a , m
a , h a ,

C 0

h

c,
C

a
L ! rd

[) I

a
h

s
0

a
k

v)

a
d
7
0

a,
A
7

c
E
[) I

a
a ,

c
a

3 @ a , E C
t J a ,

c ,
0

3

3

c

m
rd

h

a
-4

e.

z

[) I

7 c , o r b

h
4-1
H

C
3

a
-

o c , h -d u
-4
I d

sr sr

k

e
P
[) I

0

5

a w
z
[) I

3

a w

rd 3

r:
Ccl -rl

c

(I]

v

A

W . I Q3
0 2
C

u
u

a,
C

m

h

v

a,
0 C C
-4

a,

.
c.

a

h

7
0

.

v

3a,
U C

Q 7 Ql
4 rd
-4

m

h

Y

a ,

a,

c
0

-4

u
0

[) I

0

-

a, E
0

d k
rd

c
u
a ,

.
o (

u
G
[) I

rd

a, m rb

ccn

[) I

m

h

a

h

v

v

-4 C

u

c,
4

i

a

o

d

r

L

l
-J l

m
-4

a c , A
7
0

Gi

-4

a,
C

rn

a

Ll

L !
0

c

c,

c

-4

a,
Ll Ql

0

3 a,

c

c,

A
rd

A.

(By M s . You

E d w a r d s ) Yes.

Q.
A.

feel strongly about t h a t ?
Edwards) have
t h i s

(By M s . Mr.

Yes.
you h a d a n y p r e t r i a l
case?

Q.
5
I

Olague,
t o

publicity

exposure

6

A.

(By M r .

Olague)

Yes,

quite a bit.

7
8 9
10

Q.
A.

Quite a bit.
(By M r . Olague) (Juror nods head.) that I've

Q.

Is it t h e basic a l l e g a t i o n s

outlined here?
A.

11

(By M r .

Olague) you've

Yes. heard, h a v e you the

12

Q.

From w h a t

13

formed any preconceived n o t i o n s of

1 4
15
16
17

defendant's guilt or innocence?
A.
Q.
this

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No.
If y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r y i n what would y o u , b a s e your d e c i s i o n on?

case,

18 19 20 2 1 22 23 24
25

and verdict
A.

(By M r .

Olague) O n l y on t h e f a c t s

p r e s e n t e d as evidence.

Q.
A.

The f a c t s p r e s e n t e d h e r e (By M r . Olague) Yes.

i n court?

Q.

What you d i d h e a r o r w h a t you were w o u l d y o u be a b l e t o e x c l u d e t h a t a n d base y o u r d e c i s i o n s t r i c t l y

exposed to,

media p o r t i o n

26
27
28

on t h e
A.

facts and evidence?
(By M s .
Edwards)
I believe

so,

yes,

s i . r.

29 30 31 32

Q.
A.

Mr.

Walker,

how a b o u t y o u ?
It would'be t h e

(By M r . I've what

Walker)

same.

And I m e a n ,
TV.

h e a r d a touch of
I have

it on t h e

Most

of

heard has been

at

. l ! n

a
d

work.

T h e e v i d e n c e is going t o s h o w i t . You've had some discussions with

rlra

(3

Q.

15%
f IUI

co-workers?

l@$l

F"dl

A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o t d i s c u s s i o n s .

Pd

6 9
R d r w

T h e y ' v e j u s t - - they r e a l i z e d t h a t I w a s g o i n g t o b e on t h e jury possibly a n d they s a i d , well, y o u k n o w , t h i s g u y , o k a y , y o u k n o w , a n d t h a t ' s a l l t h a t w a s said. We didn't discuss

ILI
r'rD

it. W e j u s t t a l k e d a b o u t it.

10
11

Q.
A.

W a s i t the basic a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t we

h a v e p r e s e n t e d in o u r o u t l i n e ? ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes. H a v e you formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

12
13

Q.

14
15
16 17

n o t i o n s o f t h e d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t y b a s e d on
w h a t you've h e a r d prior t o y o u r j u r y s e r v i c e ?
A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o .
If you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n

Q.

ia
19
20 21 22 23 2' 4
25 26 27 28

t h i s c a s e , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s h i e l d o r e x c l u d e any media c o v e r a g e t h a t y o u h a v e heard?

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. And would that affect your decision-

Q.

m a k i n g in any way? A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) No. M s . Clay. (By Ms. C l a y ) I h a v e n ' t h e a r d

Q.
A.

anything.

Q.
A.

You h a v e n ' t heard anything? ( B y Ms. C l a y ) No.
So w o u l d it b e f a i r t o s a y t h a t y o u

29

30
31

Q.

a r e in h e r e with a c l e a n s l a t e ? A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
59

32

5775

_-

Q.

Any p r e c o n c e i v e ' d n o t i o n s o f g u i l t o r innocence? Clay) No.

the

defendant's
A.
4

(By M s .
Mr.

Q.
A.
b i t

Jefferson. Jefferson)

5
6

(By M r .

I've heard quite a

about

it, and I heard

it talked about

q u i t e a b i t a t work.

Q.

Okay.

From w h a t you h a v e h e a r d a n d
i s i t t h e same

from what you talked a b o u t ,

10
11
12

b a s i c a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t we h a v e p r e s e n t e d h e r e ?
A.

(By M r .

J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

Q.

From w h a t y o u ' v e h e a r d a n d f r o m w h a t have you formed any

13

you h a v e s e e n on t h e news,

14
15
16

preconceived noti'ons of t h e d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t
or

innocence?
A.

(By M r .
If

Walker)

No.

17
18
19
20 2 1

Q.

you w e r e selected a s a j u r o r ,

what

would you base y o u r d e c i s i o n a n d verdict on?
A.

(By M r .
On t h e

Walker)

The

evidence.
i f

Q.

evidence.

Further,

you w e r e

selected as a j u r o r

i n t h i s case,

w o u l d you be

22
23

able t o s h i e l d a n y p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y from

your decision- making process?
A.

24 25
26

(By M r .

Walker)

Yes.

Q.
A.

You a r e q u i t e s u r e ? (By M r .
Ms.

Walker)

Y e s .

27

Q.
A.

Snelling.' S n e l l i n g ) I have a r e a l c l o s e relationship w i t h
from h e r

28
29 30 3 1 32

(By M s .

f r i e n d t h a t had a p e r s o n a l t h e victim.
rather

S o my i n ' f o r m a t i o n c o m e s

t h a n t h e media. Okay.
Ms.

Q.

Snelling,

I ' m b r i n g i n g you

1

b a c k in a p r i v a t e c a p a c i t y f r o m w h a t y o u ' r e t e l l i n g me a n d f r o m what I ' m g e t t i n g f r o m y o u r d e m e a n o r h e r e might b e s o m e t h i n g w e n e e d t o discuss outside the presence of your fellow

2

3
4

j u r o r s . Okay?
A.
( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) O k a y . Mr. Walters. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I d o r e m e m b e r w h e n

Q.
8
9
10

A.

t h e e v e n t h a p p e n e d a n d vaguely r e m e m b e r s e e i n g
some n e w s reports and such on t h a t ' a n d like

11
12
13

M a r k N a t a l e , I d i d read the a r t i c l e o n S u n d a y n i g h t , b u t o t h e r w i s e , t h a t ' s it.

Q.

From what you h a v e r e a d a n d h e a r d , i s

14
15

it the same basic allegations we have
presented?
'

16

A.

(By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes, sir. H a v e y o u formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

17

Q.

notions of the defendant's guilt or innocence

19
20

b a s e d on w h a t y o u ' v e h e a r d ? A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) N o . I f you were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in

21
22 23 24

Q.

t h i s c a s e , what would you b a s e y o u r v e r d i c t on? A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) On t h e f a c t s a n d

25
26 27 28

evidence presented at trial.

Q.
A.

And you feel s t r o n g l y . a b o u t this? ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes. I f you were t o hear a n y o t h e r

Q.

29
30
31

p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y , would you b e a b l e t o s h i e l d t h a t from y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g p r o c e s s ?
A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) A b s o l u t e l y . M s . Dixon.

32

Q.

I

1
2

I

A.
news.

(By Ms. Dixon) Just w h a t was on the

I

3
4

Q.
report?

Okay.

And when did you h e a r t h i s

I

A.
Monday.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Monday.

Sunday o r

Q.
8
9

Sunday o r Monday.

And what you

heard, i s it the same basic a l l e g a t i o n s we have presented here in our outline?

10
11

A.
Q.

(By Ms. Dixon) Yes.
From what you have heard, h a v e y o u

12

formed a n y preconceived notions of the defendant's guilt or innocence?
A.

13
14

(By Ms. Dixon) No.

15
16

Q.

If you were selected as a j u r o r , what

would y o u b a s e your d e c i s i o n o n ?
A.

17

(By Ms. Dixon) The facts a n d e v i d e n c e

18

presented.

19
20 21

Q.
A.

You feel strongly a b o u t that? (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.
I f you were selected a s a j u r o r ,

Q.

22
23 24

would you be able to shield any p r e t r i a l publicity from your decision-making p r o c e s s ?
A.

(By M s . Dixon) Yes.
M s . Hicks.

25
26 27 28

Q.
A.

(By M s . Hicks) Just b a c k when i t

happened.

Q.
A.

Backed when i t happened? (By Ms. Hicks) The n e w s reports. You heard i t on the n e w s ? (By M s . Hicks) Urn-hum. Back when i t

29 30
31
32

Q.
A.

occurred.
62

5778

a
k

c,
a,

e
H

rd a,

a
c
I

h
d
d

,

0
c
&

3

u c
a ,

c
3

a

a
4 7 0

tn
C

h
4J

-4

c
0

C

c , ?
[) I

tP
C
-4

c

.-

x
-4

a

m
a,
P C
-4

a,

u

0

c*
r d
-4

l

-

-J l

3
a,
C
G 4

c
-4

c
Q
0

e
4

0

c,
h
C 0

c

F
0

e
rd

c

a,

a

a
J

u
u

-4

a
a, E
a,

0.

k 0 k

.

x

3

-4

a
C

a
C

u

I

-4
r-i

a
k

m
3
Q)

m

c,

4

-4

c,
L !

c

-4

a

@ a ,

C
0

c
4J
4J

Kl

7 -n

m
c,

Q 3

a
rd

c
C

rd a,

k '

rd
3
0

a
[) I

u

a,

C l c
c

a , @ &
L ! - l 4 J

I d ccl

u

l

-c,
c
[) I

H

F a ,

o a ,
cn

a, m

a
w
a ,

-4

h

3 tP

.

3
0

I d

c
-rl

A

a
[) I

c. C
0

a,
G
4J
I

a
-4

C a,
3 a,

-d L !

h

c, a,
L !

a, 3 rd

Kl
a,

c
I 3

a,

a, c,

u

c,

u

a
h
C

C

9

a,
I

-rl

a
k

0
n

a
C

a,
%

H
h

h

h

x

[) I

u

x
X

cn

a,
[) I

rd
[) I

rd

h

u

a, 3
L ! 7
0

x

[) I

a,
k

-4

u

c,

a
l

x
c
[

[) I

-4

-4

X

u

a,
-4

I

7
0

c.
a,

a, 3
[) I

X
[) I

w

rd

fi
[) I

0
I

z
)

-4

a
I )

a,

u
[) I

m rd E

-4

w
?

,

z

m
E

c
E-l

0

u
a , 3
rd
X

C
-rl
[) I

c

[) I

c
a
h
v

cn

h
7
0

a,
[) I

a

h

h

c

a, G c,

-4
-rl

.*

0
4J

w
H

v

rd Q
7
0

a

h

c
0

a,
I

a a
k

u

c
h a
v

[

0

h

c
a
h
v

[) I

c
E k

0

c
m
h
v

k

v

a

o

h

c,
-rl

a,

u

h

u
4

Q rd
01

c
0

7
0

-4 r-i

4

4

01

a
4

C

A

a
-4

a,

a, Q
7
0

h
E
0

. 4

0

4

4

7
0

3

3 a,

k
eel

h

I

A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. H a v e you formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

Q.

n o t i o n s of the d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t or i n n o c e n c e ?
A.

(By

Mr.

T h o m a s ) No.

Q.

I f you were selected as a juror, what

w o u l d you b a s e your verdict o n ?

A.
evidence.
Q.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) T h e f a c t s a n d t h e
J

And y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? ( B y Mr. Thomas) Yes.

A.

Q.

If you were t o i n a d v e r t e n t l y h e a r

anything, either through community discussions

or s o m e t h i n g t h a t c a t c h e s y o u r a t t e n t i o n o n
the news before you could turn it off, would

y o u b e a b l e t o s h i e l d t h a t from y o u r decision-making process?
A.

( B y Mr. Thomas). Yes. Is t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e t h a t w a n t s t h a t

Q.

want to a d d t o t h e i r a n s w e r ? Yes, sir, Mr. Olague.
A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I d o h a v e p e r s o n a l

information about it.

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) You may w a n t t o

d i s c u s s it.

Q.

L e t me m a k e a n o t e of t h i s , t o

d i s c u s s t h i s in a private s e t t i n g .
-1

Is there anyone e l s e h e r e t h a t n e e d s

to add to their answer?

On this first row? (No response.)

A.
A. A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(By Ms. Thornton) (No response.) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Mr. Olague) (By Mr. W a l k e r )

(No response.)
(No response.)

On this second row? ( B y Ms. H i c k s )
5

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No response.)

A.

(By M s .

Dixon)

6
7

A.
A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s )

(No response.)

(By Ms. Snelling) (No response.) (By Mr. Jefferson) (No response.)

8

A.

9
10
11
12
13

A.
QA.

(By Ms. Clay) (No r e s p o n s e . , )
M r . Thomas.
'(By M r . Thomas) No. Okay. L a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , I w a n t to

Q.

t o u c h u p real q u i c k on the c h a r g e t h a t w e a r e p r e s e n t i n g h e r e in c o u r t .

14
15

This c h a r g e i s

g o i n g t o b e d i s c u s s e d m o r e in- depth in t h e s e c o n d r o u n d of voir d i r e i f y o u m a k e i t p a s t t h i s i n i t i a l s e t t i n g , b u t I want t o g i v e y o u a p r e v i e w , so you c a n h a v e a working k n o w l e d g e
o f it f o r t h e j u r o r s that d o m a k e i t t o t h e

16
17

18

19 20 21
22 23

s e c o n d round. First degree murder is the killing of a h u m a n being - ( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was held.)
B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

24
25 26 27 28

Q.

First degree murder is the killing of

a h u m a n b e i n g w h e r e the o f f e n d e r h a s s p e c i f i c intent to kill or inflict great bodily harm. And here's the additional circumstance that e l e v a t e s it f r o m a s e c o n d d e g r e e m u r d e r t o a m u r d e r t h a t c a r r i e s the o p t i o n of c a p i t a l punishment. I t ' s c a l l e d an a g g r a v a t i n g
65

29
30
31

32

5 7 8 I.

1

circumstance.
A n d what we h a v e a l l e g e d h e r e i s t h a t t h e o f f e n d e r n o t only k i l l e d a h u m a n b e i n g , had the specific intent to kill or inflict g r e a t b o d i l y h a r m , h e was a l s o e n g a g e d i n
another felony.

I
2
~

3
4

~

5
6

And we have alleged robbery,

7
8 9

arson, burglary, kidnapping, or the attempt to k i l l m o r e than one person. Those are the

s p e c i f i c e l e m e n t s we are g o i n g t o p r o v e i n t h i s case in o r d e r for the jury t o a r r i v e a t a v e r d i c t o f f i r s t d e g r e e -m u r d e r .

10
11

12,

Is e v e r y o n e a b l e f r o m Mr. T h o m a s a l l
t h e way t o Ms. Clay a b l e t o s e e o u r t e c h n i c a l elements here our outline?

13
14

15

A.
A.
A.
A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A.
A.

(By Mr. Natale) Yes..

16
.17

(By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.
.

18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25

26 27
28 29 30 31 32

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s so f a r

Q.

a s t o t h e a c t u a l e l e m e n t s we h a v e t o p r o v e ? I think everybody has a common sense approach to what i s a homi.cide, b u t t h e s e . a r e t h e a c t u a l l e g a l e l e m e n t s t h a t we h a v e t o p r o v e i n o r d e r t,o s u s t a i n a conviction. Any q u e s t i o n s so

1
2
3

far?

A.
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No response.)

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

4
I

A.
A.
A.
A.
A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No response.)
(By Mr. O l a g u e ) ( N o response.)
(By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

5

6
7
~

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

8

9

A.
A.

(By M r . W a l t e r s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
(By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
( B y Mr. Jefferson)

10

11
12

A.
A.
A.

(No response.)

( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No response.) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

13

14
15

Q.

No o n e i s indicating.

When we t a l k

a b o u t t h e p e n a l t i e s now f o r ' f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r , the p e n a l t i e s c a n b e t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o r l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t without b e n e f i t o f probation, parole, or suspension of sentence. Now, n o r m a l l y , t h e f i r s t q u e s t i o n I g e t o u t o f every p a n e l , so I'll g o a h e a d a n d a n s w e r i t i s , what d o e s l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t m e a n h e r e in L o u i s i a n a ? Does that mean they stay

16
17

18
19

20
2 1 22
23 24 25

in j a i l f o r e v e r , o r d o they g e t o u t a f t e r f i v e , t e n , fifteen years? In Louisiana, life

i m p r i s o n m e n t o t h e r than a f e w e x c e p t i o n s related to governors' pardon powers or the p a r o l e b o a r d , l i f e m e a n s life. In o t h e r

26
27

28 29

w o r d s , a n i n d i v i d u a l will d i e a t A n g o l a . T h e o t h e r o p t i o n i s t h e d e a t h penalty. D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s r e l a t e d t o t h e t w o p e n a l t i e s t h a t we a r e s e e k i n g h e r e today for the j u r y ' s
67

30
31 32

5783

consideration?

A. A. A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No response.)

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o response.)

I

5

A.
A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By M r . W a l k e r )
(No r e s p o n s e . )

A. A.

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.) ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. Walters)

A.

(No r e s p o n s e . )

A.
A. A.
13

(By Ms. Snelling) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. Thomas)

A.

(No r e s p o n s e . )

14
I
I

Q*
the jury.

With that, ladies and g e n t l e m e n , t h e

15
16
17

p e n a l t y in t h e s e type of c a s e s i s d e p e n d i n g o n In most n o r m a l c a s e s , s u c h a s an

I
I

I

a r m e d r o b b e r y if t h e r e i s a c o n v i c t i o n , t h e n the e l e c t e d j u d g e d e c i d e s t h e s e n t e n c e , b u t in t h e s e s p e c i f i c c a s e s , t h e jury w i l l d e c i d e w h i c h i s t h e a p p r o p r i a t e p u n i s h m e n t in t h i s s p e c i f i c case. D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s o n t h i s f i r s t row?
A.

ia
19
20

21
22
23 24 25

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

( N o response.)

A.
A.
A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) ( N o response.) (By M s . E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Mr. Olague) (No response.) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( B y Ms. Hicks) (No response.)
(No response.)

‘2 6
27
28

A.

29 30

A.

Q.

N o one i s i n d i c a t i n g . Mr. T h o m a s .

31
32

A.

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) No.
68

L M O J

q S J r 3 'Srqq

UO

ZE

j i a p ~ n wa a i b a p q s i r j 3 0 a b i e y o
ayq
oq
UT
SP

T&
~

a s e y d A q l e u a d d n s q a s a q n q ~ q sa y q
JPJ

M

O

OE
6Z 82
LZ

o s uorqsanb AUP

a ~ a y qS I 'quauuosr~dwr

a 3 r ~ o A q l e u a d y q e a p e u a a ~ q a qa s o o y ~ i qsnur A z n C a q q puy 'aauaprna
s ~ q q urieay b

iaqje

9z
SZ

- q u a u r q s r u n d a q e ~ ~ d o i d daey q

sr

q e y ~ o u

u o r s r 3 a p e uo u o r s r 3 a p e b u r y e w 0 3 a 3 u a i a 3 a J

6Z
E2

s!:

AJnC

ayq

'aseyd

A q ~ e u a da y q

UT

puy

saseyd

TZ

oz
* a u o p sr Y I O M , s i o i n C ay;~; iaqybne~suew

6T

- s d o q s T P ~ Ja q~q
JO

' A q ~ r n bqou

JO

~ a p ~ na wi b a p p u o ~ a ss e y ~ n sa w r i 3 z a s s a ~ a

e 2 0 A q ~ r n bq u e p u a j a p a y q s p u r 3 AinC a q q
J?

'ydexb

ayq woi3 a a s u e a

noA s y

'aauaprna

&T

6
8
L

9

S

6
E
Z
j ~ o p u o a a s a y q u o q n o q ~M O H i

'0

'I:

A.
A. A.

(By Mr. Natale)

(No r e s p o n s e . ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. Thornton)

(By M s . E d w a r d s ) ( N o response.)

A.
A.

(By M r . Olague) (No response.)
( B y Mr. W a l k e r )
(No response.)

Q.
A.

Mr. Thomas?
( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No. O n the s e c o n d row.

Q.

A.
A.

(By Ms. H i c k s )
( B y Ms. Dixon)

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No response.)

A. A. A.
A.

(By Mr. Walters)

(No response.)

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By Ms. C l a y )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

Q.

O k a y . Now, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , w h e n

I m o v e n o w t o my n e x t topic, I h o p e e v e r y o n e
h a s h a d an o p p o r t u n i t y t o h a v e s o m e i n n e r reflection on your honest, truthful thoughts a n d o p i n i o n s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e , k e e p in mind, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , i n d o i n g s o m e o f t h e s e c a s e s , I think t h e w o r s t t h i n g that could happen is that a juror gets on a c a s e l i k e t h i s , a n d they s t a t e s o m e t h i n g in voir dire such as, oh, yeah, I might could be a b l e t o c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ' i n a theoretical or abstract manner, but then when they g e t t o the m o m e n t of t r u t h a n d e v e n i f t h e e v i d e n c e warrants it, t h a t j u r o r t e l l s h i m s e l f , I r e a l l y wish I w o u l d h a v e t o l d the p r o s e c u t o r in t h e voir d i r e t h a t I c a n ' t d o t h a t . I mean, I j u s t c a n ' t c o n s i d e r t h i s . w a s n ' t e v e n a s e r i o u s option.
70

It

5786

I t ' s n o t fair t o the p a r t i e s , a n d it hurts the process.

So does everyone

u n d e r s t a n d t h e i m p o r t a n c e of t h i s n e x t t o p i c in the h o n e s t a n d t r u t h f u l o p i n i o n s t h a t we

seek?
M r . N a t a l e , I'm g o i n g to start with you. I'm just going to throw a general

q u e s t i o n o u t . A f t e r we t h r o w t h e s e g e n e r a l questions, I'm going to bring it back to a
10

r a t i n g s y s t e m b e c a u s e I j u s t n e e d to g e t y o u r general feelings about death penalty. A. (By Mr. Natale) I support it. You s u p p o r t i t ?

11

12

13

Q.

14
15
16
17

A.
Q.
A.

( B y Mr. Natale) Um-hum.
Has this been a longstanding support? ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. H a s y o u r views e v e r c h a n g e d

Q.

18
19

throughout your life?
A.

(By M r . N a t a l e ) Not r e a l l y , no. N o w , with the d e a t h p e n a l t y , i s i t

20 21
22

Q.

s o m e t h i n g , t h o u g h , t h a t you c a n t e m p e r a m e n t t o consider other punishments?
A.

23

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I t h i n k i t w o u l d h a v e

24
25

t o d o w i t h what t e s t i m o n y e v i d e n c e w o u l d b e presented of the particular crime, basically h o w h e i n o u s the crime was. And I d o n ' t t h i n k

26
27 28 29

I c o u l d make t h a t o p i n i o n o r f o r m a n o p i n i o n

u n t i l I h e a r t h a t evidence.

There is no

l i t m u s t e s t for me to d e t e r m i n e w h e t h e r o r not - i

30
31

Q.
A.

Exactly. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) - - d e a t h p e n a l t y
71

32

applies.

I would just have to base it upon

what I hear.

4
5
6
7

I
I

Q.

O k a y . And I ' m g o i n g t o t o u c h l a t e r o n

into the penalty phase on what a jury must
c o n s i d e r , a n d that's g o i n g to b e a l o n g the l i n e s o f what y o u ' v e s t a t e d .

Ms. T h o r n t o n , h o w d o y o u f e e l a b o u t
the death penalty?

8

9
10
11
12

A.

(By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I guess in a sense
It would depend on

I f e e l s i m i l a r t o him.

what the c r i m e was and the c i r c u m s t a n c e s .

Q.

Do you think the d e a t h p e n a l t y i s an

13

a p p r o p r i a t e punishment in o u r s o c i e t y ?

14
15

A.
do.

(By Ms. Thornton) In some c a s e s , I

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29
'

Q.

O k a y . And h a s i t b e e n a l o n g - s t a n d i n g

belief of yours, or has your belief ever c h a n g e d t h r o u g h o u t your l i f e ? A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) No. I pretty much

felt t h a t way a l l along.

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) I t h i n k in s o m e

cases, it does apply.

Q.

A n d h a v e you e v e r h a d a n y

r e s e r v a t i o n s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) Or h a d a c h a n c e to e v e n t h i n k a b o u t

Q.

that - A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I d o n ' t g u e s s I ' v e

30 31 32

r e a l l y t h o u g h t a b o u t it t h a t m u c h b e c a u s e i t w a s n ' t u p t o me t o m a k e t h a t d e c i s i o n , y o u k n o w , b u t I think in s o m e c a s e s i t i s . You

know, i t would apply.

Q.

Okay. Ms. Edwards, how d o you feel

about the death penalty?

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t like t h e

d e a t h penalty.

Q.
A.

Okay.
(By Ms. Edwards) Because - -

Q.

I appreciate your honesty because,

like I s a i d , when I started with the f i r s t row, t'here were similar answers, y o u r s i s different, and I appreciate y o u w i t h y o u r honesty. Tell m e about why you d o n ' t like the death penalty.
A.
(By

Ms. Edwards) I don't l i k e t h e

death penalty because I don't think, I don't feel t h a t that is in our hands to d o t h a t because sometimes you may - - the jury may c o n v i c t a person and you really t h i n k t h a t t h a t ' s the person and the death penalty i s on t h a t person, and i f I was convinced a n d I was a juror and I convicted the person and found out i t really wasn't t h a t person, i t w o u l d make me feel real b a d inside. really care for that at all. And I d o n ' t

Q.

Is it a punishment t h a t you t h i n k you

c a n impose or no? A. (By M s . Edwards) N o , I c a n ' t . You feel strongly about t h a t ? (By Ms. Edwards) Yes. H a s this been a long-standing b e l i e f ?

Q.
A.

Q.

Have you always felt like this y o u r e n t i r e
73

5789
~~

...

I

1
2
3

life?

A.

(By M s . E d w a r d s ) No, I h a v e n ' t a l w a y s

f e l t l i k e t h a t , but i t ' s j u s t g o n e o n t h r o u g h

4
5

the years.

Q.

Have y o u e v e r b e e n a s u p p o r t e r o f i t

a n d t h e n y o u r mind h a s c h a n g e d ?

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

When it comes

to s o m e c a s e s , like involving c h i l d r e n a n d

a d u l t s a n d t h i n g s , y e s , a n d t h e n I c h a n g e d my
10
11
12

m i n d a b o u t t h a t , a n d I felt t h a t l i f e

i m p r i s o n m e n t would b e b e t t e r , so t h e y c o u l d c o n s t a n t l y think a b o u t i t .

13
14

Q.

O k a y . Ms. E d w a r d s , I t h a n k y o u f o r

your honest answers. Mr. Olague.

15

16
17

A.

(By Mr. Olague) I support it. You s u p p o r t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ? (By M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. H a s t h i s been a l o n g s t a n d i n g s u p p o r t ? ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.
D o you feel t h a t i t ' s a n a p p r o p r i a t e

Q.
A.

18

19 20
2 1

Q.
A.

Q.

22
23

p u n i s h m e n t in o u r s o c i e t y ?
A.

(By Mr. Olague) In certain cases it

24 25
26

is.

Q.

'In proper c a s e s .

Okay.

Mr. Walker, what's your opinion and f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?
A.

27
28

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I a g r e e w i t h i t . You a g r e e with i t ? ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Ye.s, s i r . Has this been a longstanding

29

Q.
A.

30
31

Q.

32

agreement?
74

5790

1
2
3

A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

Q.

As I a s k e d M r . N a t a l e , i s i t

s o m e t h i n g t h o u g h t h a t you c o u l d t e m p e r a m e n t t o

consider other punishment options?
A.
Q.

(By M r . W a l k e r )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

I k n o w t h a t we h a v e j u r o r s t h a t do

b e l i e v e s t r o n g l y with the d e a t h p e n a l t y , a n d I

a
9
10

a m g o i n g t o bring the rating s y s t e m o u t i n a

little while, but I want to just ask you i n
r e f e r e n c e t o a c c e p t i n g any o t h e r p u n i s h m e n t s

11
12

a s a j u r o r in t h i s p h a s e , w o u l d t h a t b e
s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l y o u c o u l d d o ?

13

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I c o u l d - - i f t h e

14
15
16

e v i d e n c e was f u l l y s t r o n g , o n e h u n d r e d
p e r c e n t , I c o u l d g o with the d e a t h p e n a l t y ; i f t h e r e w a s any d o u b t on my p a r t , I ' d h a v e t o b a c k o f f it.

17

ia
19 20
21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28

Q.
A.
penalty.

Okay. Ms. C l a y . ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I s u p p o r t t h e d e a t h

Q.
A.

You s u p p o r t the d e a t h p e n a l t y . ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes. Has this b e e n a l o n g s t a n d i n g p e r s o n a l

Q.

s u p p o r t of i t ?
A.

( B y M s . Clay) Yes. I ' v e a l w a y s

s u p p o r t e d it.

Q.

I ' m assuming i t ' s s a f e t o s a y y o u

f e e l i t s an a p p r o p r i a t e p u n i s h m e n t ?
A.

29

( B y Ms. C l a y ) If the c r i m e f i t s . The crime has got to fit it, and

30
3 1 32

Q.

t h a t ' s o u r j o b t o ' m a k e you f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e doing that. That's always a caveat.
75

5791.

1
2
3

A.

( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yes. Ms. S n e l l i n g , w h a t ' s y o u r t h o u g h t s

Q.

a n d f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ? A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I s u p p o r t i t . You s u p p o r t i t . ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.
Do you feel that i t ' s a p p r o p r i a t e

4
5 6
7
8

Q.
A.

Q.

p u n i s h m e n t in s o c i e t y ?

9

A.
cases.

(By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. I n s e v e r e

10
11

Q.

Is t h i s a l o n g s t a n d i n g b e l i e f t h a t

12 13

you h a v e h a d ?
A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

14
15

Q*
A.

Has y o u r v i e w e v e r c h a n g e d t h r o u g h o u t

your life? ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No.
I s it something that you could

16
17
18

Q.

temperament to consider other penalty provisions?
A.

19
20

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Y e a h , i t w o u l d ,

21
22 23 24
25

d e p e n d i n g on t h e c a s e , t h e d e g r e e o f i t .
Q.

Mr. Walker. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) I s u p p o r t it. You s u p p o r t i t ? ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. I s it a l o n g s t a n d i n g p e r s o n a l

A.

Q.
A.

26
27
28

Q.
support?
A.

( B y M r . Walker) As l o n g a s I c a n

29
30
31
32

remember.

Q.

Are you able t o c o n s i d e r o t h e r

p e n a l t y p r o v i s i o n s a s well?
A.

(By Mr. Walker) I guess I'd say, you
77

5793

know, the crime has to fit the punishment. t h e p u n i s h m e n t i s the d e a t h p e n a l t y a n d t h e

If

r153

c r i m e w a r r a n t s i t , then I h a v e t o s u p p o r t i t .

Q.
5

O k a y . M s . Dixon. (By Ms. D i x o n ) I s u p p o r t i t .

I

A.

6
7

Q.

Has that been a longstanding support

t h a t y o u ' v e had? A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

8
9
10

Q.

Has y o u r o p i n i o n e v e r c h a n g e d
life?

throughout your A.

11
12

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) No.

Q.

Is i t a p e n a l t y t h a t y o u f e e l y o u

13
14
15

c o u l d i m p o s e if the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s i t ?

A.

( B y Ms. Dixon) Yes,

d e p e n d i n g on t h e

nature of the crime, yes, sir.

16

Q.

A n d are you a b l e t o a l s o t e m p e r a m e n t

17 18 19 20 21
22

y o u r f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y t o c o n s i d e r o t h e r penalty p r o v i s i o n s ? A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. Ms. Hicks. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) I ' v e a l w a y s s u p p o r t e d

Q.
A. it.

23

Q.
penalty? A.

Okay.

Always supported the death

24 25 26
27 28 29 30
31 32

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes. Has your opinion ever changed

Q*

t h r o u g h o u t your l i f e ? A. (By Ms. Hicks) No. A r e you a b l e to, i f s e l e c t e d a s a

Q.

juror, to consider other penalty provisions? A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes. Mr. Thomas.

Q.

.-..

.-..

I
~ ~

1
2
3
4

A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I've n e v e r r e a l l y I've never been

t h o u g h t a b o u t i t t h a t much. forced to form an opinion.

I

I

Q.

T h i s i s probably t h e h a r d e s t p a r t

5
~

s o m e t i m e s , e s p e c i a l l y for

this g r o u p who

6

didn't hear the other groups and didn't have a c h a n c e t o o v e r n i g h t think a b o u t y o u r o p i n i o n s . W h a t ' s y o u r first i n c l i n a t i o n t h o u g h f r o m w h e n

~

7
8
I

9
10
11
12

I

I first threw it out to you? A.
( B y M r . Thomas) I

don't know i f it's

r i g h t t o t a k e l i f e , but I think i f , y o u k n o w , i f t h i s i s t h e justice s y s t e m t h a t w e ' v e s e t u p a n d t h a t ' s what the c r i m e d e m a n d s , t h e n I t h i n k i t probably i s the r i g h t t h i n g .
Q.

13

14
15

Okay.

Is

it a penalty

that you could
\

16

s e e y o u r s e l f imposing if t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s

17 18

I

it? A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. T h i s i s the gut c h e c k - ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

19
20 21 22 23

Q.
A.

Q.

- - t h a t I l i k e t o c a l l it. Is t h i s

s o m e t h i n g t h a t you think y o u c o u l d d o ? A.
(By Mr.

T h o m a s ) Um- hum.

24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

Q.

W o u l d you a l s o b e a b l e to. c o n s i d e r

other penalty provisions?

A.

(By Mr. Thomas) Certainly. Okay. Now, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , I This i s our

Q.

want t o take i t to the n e x t s t e p .

r a t i n g s y s t e m d e v e l o p e d b y the C a d d o d i s t r i c t attorney's office. I'm going to give

everybody a second to review the rating system. What I ' m g o i n g t o a s k y o u t o d o i s t o
79

- .\,

1

rate yourself
best
t o you. (Pause.)

on which one you
I w i l l

think applies t o read

2 3

g i v e you a moment

it.

4
5
read

Has e v e r y o n e h a d a n o p p o r t u n i t y t o
the entire outline?

6
7

A. A.

(By M r . (By M s . (By M s .

Natale) Y e s .
Thornton)

Yes.

8
9
10

A. A.
A.

Edwards)
Olague) Walker) Hicks) Dixon)

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

(By M r .
(By M r .

11
12

A. A.

(By M s . (By M s . (By M r .

Yes.

Yes.

13
14
15

A.

W a l t e r s ) Yes.

A.
A. A. A.

( B y Ms. Snelling) Yes.
(By M r . (By M s . (By M r . Okay. Clay. (By M s . Clay)
I

Jefferson) Clay)
Yes.

Yes.

16
17

Thomas)

Yes.

18 19 20 21
you,

Q.
Ms.
A.

1'11 b r e a k i t u p a n d s t a r t w i t h

think

I ' m

a number

three.

Q.
23
24
A.

Number (By M s . And y o u

three? Clay) J u s t depends. a three. For

Q.
the

state you're you're

25

record,

t h a t means

e q u a l l y open t o

26
27

e i t h e r punishment;
A.

is that

correct?

(By M s .
Ms.

C l a y ) Um- hum.
I w i l l

28 29
30

Q.
example,

Clay,

u s e you as a n reporter can't take

too.

The c o u r t

down a h e a d s h a k e . record.
A.

W need a yes o r no for t h e e

(By M s .

Clay)

Y e s .

80

5796

.-.

.

Q.
A.

N o t t o p i c k on you o r a n y t h i n g . (By M s .
I'm

Okay.

Clay) That's

fine.

Q.

g o i n g t o come b a c k t o t h e r a t i n g

system in the third portion, but y o u feel
s t r o n g l y t h a t you a r e a t h r e e ?
A.

( B Y MS.

c l a y ) Um-hum. how w o u l d y o u r a t e

Q.
yourself?
A.
10

Mr.

Walker,

Probably a four.
A

Q.

four.

And

for

the

record,

four

11
12

means you
A.

f a v o r l i f e b u t c o u l d impose d e a t h ?
Yes.

13

Q.
yourself?
A.

Mr.

Olague,

how w o u l d y o u r a t e

14
15

(By M r .

O l a g u e ) Two. t h a t means you favor

16
17
18

Q.
death b u t
A.

For t h e record,

could impose l i f e ; (By M r .
Mr.

is that correct?

O l a g u e ) Yes. how w o u l d y o u r a t e

19

Q.
yourself?
A.

Jefferson,

20 21 22
23 24

(By M r . too.

Jefferson)

I would

say a

number f o u r ,

Q.
life but
A.

Number

four.

That means,

you

favor

c o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ? (By M r .
Ms.

25
26 27
28

Jefferson)

Yes.

Q.
yourself?
A.

Snelling,

how w o u l d y o u r a t e

(By M s . Four.

S n e l l i n g ) Number four. When y o u s a y f o u r , you favor

29

Q.

30
31
32

l i f e b u t could impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?
A.

(By M s .
Ms.

S n e l l i n g ) Yes.
how w o u l d y o u

Q.

Edwards,

rate

81

5797

1

y’ourself?

2

A.

( B y M s . Edwards) Five. T h a t means, l i f e i s t h e o n l y

3

Q.

a p p r o p r i a t e sentence for

first d e g r e e m u r d e r ?

A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.
I was g e t t i n g ready t o a s k

Q.
7
8 MS.

Stewart and s h e ’ s -gone.
Ms.

Thornton.

9
18
11
12

A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I’m a number f o u r .
Y o u favor l i f e but c o u l d impose the

Q.

death penalty?

A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

13
14
15

Q.
A.

M r . Walters.
(By M r .

Walters)

I ’ d have

to s a y

four.

16

Q.

Four.

Favor l i f e b u t c o u l d i m p o s e

17

the death penalty?

18
19 20

A.

( B y M r . Walters) Yes.
Ms. D i x o n , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

Q.
yourself?

A.
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31

(By Ms. Dixon) Number three. Three. Y o u ’ r e e q u a l l y o p e n t o e i t h e r

Q.

punishment?
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
Ms. Hicks, h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

Q.
yourself?
A.

(By Ms. Hicks) A three.
A three.

Q.

You a r e e q u a l l y o p e n t o

either punishment?
A.

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . ) Mr. N a t a l e , how w o u l d you r a t e

Q.
yourself?

32

82

5798

.

1

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Two. Two. You f a v o r d e a t h but c o u l d

2
3
4

Q.

impose a life sentence?

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

5
I

Q.
yourself?

Mr. T h o m a s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

6

7
8

A.

( B y Mr. Tho\mas) A four. Four. I've g o t a lot o f f o u r ' s .

Q.

9
10

Favor l i f e b u t could i m p o s e d e a t h ?

A.

( B y Mr. Thomas)

Yes.

11

Q.

Ms. E d w a r d s , s i n c e y o u ' r e m y only

12

f i v e , I a m g o i n g t o s t a r t with y o u .

13

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) Okay.

14
15

Q.

Ms, Edwards, when someone classifies
I want to ask if t h i s
I f you were s e l e c t e d f o r t h i s

t h e m s e l v e s as a f i v e , applies to you.

16
17 18

jury, w o u l d you - - a n d you w e r e in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e , w o u l d y o u a u t o m a t i c a l l y vote f o r l i f e n o m a t t e r what the e v i d e n c e is?

19
20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) No. I d o n ' t k n o w

what I would do.

Q.
now - A.

'Okay. T h i s i s why we d o t h i s p r o c e s s

(By Ms. Edwards) Okay.
- - b e c a u s e ' t h i s i s t h e g u t wrench

Q.
time.
A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yeah, t h i s i s

b e c a u s e o f religious, a n d b e c a u s e I d o n ' t think l i f e i s in o u r h a n d s t o t a k e i t f r o m anyone.

29
30
31
32

I know that that person has taken

s o m e o n e e l s e ' si l i f e , b u t I f i g u r e t h a t i f t h e y h a v e l i f e in p r i s o n a n d they d i e in p r i s o n

.-.

!

.

b.6'

I

a
Okay.

like you said they would d o , then t h i s would constantly remind them o f what they h a d done.

Q.'
part.

So let me g o b a c k t o the first

Based on what you just said t h e r e , i s

it f a i r to s a y that if you were s e l e c t e d f o r
this jury that no matter what t h e , s i t u a t i o n o r evidence was that you would s t i l l vote f o r life? A. life. (By M s . Edwards) I would vote f o r

Q.

And you would never consider the

death penalty? A. ,(By M s . Edwards) No, no. Okay. That would be under a n y

Q.

circumstance?
A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s )

( J u r o r n o d s head.)

Q.
A.

I need you to say y e s o r no.

(By Ms. Edwards) No.

Q.

Is this a longstanding p e r s o n a l ,

religious or moral belief? Which o n e would you characterize i t ?
A.

(By Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t b e l i e v e in

it.

Q.
A.

I s i t a personal belief?

(By M s . Edwards) Yes. Okay. How long have you h a d t h i s

Q.

personal belief against the death p e n a l t y ? A. (By M s . Edwards) A long t i m e .
A long time?

Q.
A.

(By M s . Edwards) Y e s . Let m e ask you this: Your views

Q.

about the death penalty that you are a g a i n s t

--.

i t , t h a t y o u couldn't impose it, d o you feel

that that would prevent o r substantially impair y o u r ability to follow the o a t h and instructions of the Court i f you were a juror

in this case?

And do you know what I mean

w h e n I state that? I d o n ' t want any juror to
feel like, well, you know, I'm n o t g o i n g to n o t d o what a judge tells me - -

A.

(By M s . Edwards) No. I ' m g o i n g t o d o

what he asks me to do.
Q.
Okay. But if the judge i n s t r u c t s you

t h a t you've g o t to consider the d e a t h penalty, would y o u r views impair your a b i l i t y t o f o l l o w that instruction?
A.

(By

M s .

E d w a r d s )

N o .

I ' d

just

f o l l o w

his instructions d o what I h a v e t o do.

Q.
A.

Okay. Well - (By M s . Edwards) B u t I s t i l l wouldn't

feel right about it.

Q.

Let me clarify this though b e c a u s e

this i s a fairness issue now.
A.

(By M s . Edwards) T h a t ' s right. I f the judge i s telling you t o

Q.

consider the death penalty a s a s e r i o u s option.
A.

(By Ms. Edwards) Right. Would the death penalty be a n option

Q.
for you?
A.

(By M s . Edwards) Yes. I just c o u l d n ' t

d o it.

Q.

L e t me be clear on your a n s w e r .

It's

l i k e y o u ' r e saying one thing - 85

5301.

_-

c
v

Cn

cn
C 0

m

h
4

o

c
-4

m
v

4

C
4J

a

.

u

c

J

h

k

o

a
a,

3
Q)

3 -n

a

k a r d

,

-.

1
2

d o y o u f e e l t h a t way? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. A g a i n , on

3
4
5

c o n s i d e r i n g l i f e - - well, e i t h e r w a y w o u l d d e p e n d on what I hear in the c o u r t r o o m .
Q.
And

so

you f e e l t h a t you would b e

6
7

a b l e t o b e a f a i r j u r o r a s t o b o t h s i d e s in r e f e r e n c e t o either p u n i s h m e n t ? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I b e l i e v e so. Would you be able t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

8

9

Q.

10
11

evidence as to b o t h s i d e s a n d t h e n make a
decision? A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. Ms. Hicks, you i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u

12 13

Q.

14
15

I

were a t h r e e , c o r r e c t ?
A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) R i g h t . You indicated t h a t y o u a r e e q u a l l y

16
17

Q.

o p e n t o either p u n i s h m e n t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes. W o u l d you b e a b l e t o l i s t e n t o a l l

18
19
20

Q.

t h e e v i d e n c e a s t o whatever i s p r e s e n t e d b y e i t h e r s i d e b e f o r e you made y o u r d e c i s i o n a s t o e i t h e r punishment?
A.

21
22
23

( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes. W o u l d you be able t o c o n s i d e r b o t h

24 25 26
27

Q.

punishments? A. (By M s . H i c k s ) Yes.
M s . Hicks, I a m g o i n g to d o t h i s w i t h

Q.
you.

28
29
30
31

I ' m going to c o m e back t o y o u , M r . N a t a l e , on t,his question. Are you a b l e to s e e t h e ' d e f e n d a n t h e r e in o p e n c o u r t t o d a y ?

32

A.

(By M s . Okay.

Hicks)

Yes.

Q.
o u t of

And t h i s i s w h e r e w e t a k e i t

t h e t h e o r e t i c a l o r a b s t r a c t o r academic
I sometimes feel t h e voir dire
get

range t h a t
process
can

into,

and

I'm

going

t o

bring

Q

it i n t o r e a l i t y h e r e .

And s e e i n g
t h i s

b r

I

Felton Dorsey h e r e i n open c o u r t today,

is t h e individual t h a t we are seeking t o

impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n .
reality of the situation.
open c o u r t , t h i s case,
i f

So t h i s i s t h e

Seeing him h e r e i n

y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n i f you f e l t t h a t t o

w o u l d y o u be a b l e ,

the evidence warranted the death penalty,
be able
t o

come back open
I

here

i n open c o u r t and
that

announce

i n

court

that

is your

verdict,

that

have

imposed t h e death p e n a l t y

on F e l t o n Dorsey?
A.

(By M s .

Hicks)

I t w o u l d be

v e r y hard think I

because he's could.

someone's

child,

but

I

Q.
upset

Okay. you.
I

Ms.

Hicks,

I

d o n ' t mean t o getting a little

c a n see y o u ' r e

upset about it. voir dire,

And t h i s i s why w e d o t h i s

i t ' s a tough i n t e r n a l decision w e
Do

want t o make s u r e j u r o r s can c o n s i d e r .

you

f e e l l i k e t h a t i t c o u l d be s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u could do?
A.

(By M s . but if

Hicks)

It

w o u l d be v e r y

difficult,

the

f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e show

t h a t he i s g u i l t y ,
Q.

I

really think I could.

Okay.

Do y o u s e e w h y I a s k t h i s
the

question i n reference t o i f

evidence is
88

5804:

_..

1

there and i f

t h e j u r y f e e l s l i k e it, I d o n ' t well,
I ' m

2
3
4

want any j u r o r s t o say, because

not doing it court and

I d o n ' t want go back i n t h e

see him.

Mr. Natale, same question.
see t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open c o u r t ?
A.

Do you

(By M r .

Natale)

(Juror nods head.)

8

Q.
court,
the

I n seeing t h e defendant h e r e i n open
if you

9
10

f e l t that the evidence warranted
would

death penalty,

y o u b e a b l e t o come

11
12

back

here

i n open c o u r t and impose t h e death

p e n a l t y on Felton Dorsey?
A.

13

(By M r .

N a t a l e ) Yes.

14
15
w e r e

Q.
a
A.

Ms. D i x o n ,
three,

you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you

correct?

16

(By M s .

Dixon)

Y e s .

17

Q.

T h a t means

you're

e q u a l l y open t o

ia
19
20 21 22 23 24
25

either penalty?
A.

(By M s .

Dixon)

Yes.

Q.

Is the death p e n a l t y a s e r i o u s o p t i o n

f o r you i n t h a t f a s h i o n ?
A.

(By M s .

Dixon)

Yes.

It

depends on

the evidence.

Q.
belief
A.

H a s

t h i s been

a longstanding personal

about t h e death p e n a l t y w i t h you? (By M s . Dixon)
Yes.

26
27 28
29

.

Q.

Would e i t h e r p e n a l t y be a s e r i o u s

o p t i o n f o r you i n t h e p e n a l t y phase?
A.

(By M s .
the

Dixon)

Y e s .

Based

on

30
31
32

whatever

evidence and facts are presented.
death p e n a l t y

Q.

Is t h e

something that

you c o u l d see y o u r s e l f

imposing on someone?

A.
I

(By M s .

Dixon)

Yes.

Q.
A.

And y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? (By M s . Dixon)

Yes.

Q.

And a r e y o u a b l e t o s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y
open

I

here

i n
A.

court?

(By M s .

Dixon)

Yes.

Q.
court,

And s e e i n g t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open if you f e l t t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o come

the death penalty,

10

I

i n t o open c o u r t and impose the death penalty
on F e l t o n Dorsey?
A.

11
12
13
14
15

(By M s . Do y o u (By M s .
M s .

Dixon)

Yes.
that?

Q.
A.
Q.

feel strongly about

Dixon)
you

Yes.
indicated that

Clay,

you were

16
17

a

three,

a n d you a r e open t o either

punishment?
A.

18
19 20

(By M s .

C l a y ) Yes.

Q.

Is t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y a s e r i o u s o p t i o n

21

I

f o r you?
A.

(By M s .

C l a y ) Um- hum.

22
23
24 25

Q.
A.

How l o n g h a v e y o u
(By M s .
If

, had

Yes.
this

belief?

Clay)

I've always thought
I

that

way.

the

evidence m e r i t s it, then

w o n ' t have a n y problem. Q. Would t h e p e n a l t y o f
life

26
27 28 29 30

a l s o be a

s e r i o u s o p t i o n for you?
A.

(By M s .

C l a y ) Yes.

Q.

Would y o u be a b l e t o k e e p a n o p e n

mind as t o either punishment?
A.

31 32

(By M s .
Are

Clay) Y e s .

Q.

you a b l e t o see t h e d e f e n d a n t
90

1
2 3

h e r e i n open c o u r t ?
A.

(By M s .

Clay) Y e s .

Q.
court,

Seeing Felton Dorsey h e r e i n open i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n t h i s

4
I

I
I

5

case a n d you f e l t t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d

6
7

t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o come
back i n open c o u r t and announce t h a t your d e c i s i o n was t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?
A.

8

9
10

(By M s .

C l a y ) Yes.

Q.

Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

11
12
13

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) I f t h e e v i d e n c e

warrants it, yes.

Q.

But t h e evidence has t o warrant it,
feel comfortable

14 15

a n d i t ' s my j o b t o m a k e y o u i n doing it.

16
17

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
That's
Mr.

Q.

t h a t caveat. you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you
Natale;

18

Olague,

19
20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26
27

were a t w o j u s t l i k e M r .
someone t h a t

and t h a t is,

favors death b u t

could impose a

life sentence;
A.

is that correct?

(By M r .

Olague)

Yes.

Q.
outline,

And a s w e i n d i c a t e d h e r e i n o u r that's okay t o f a v o r d e a t h as long as

c a n keep a n open mind a n d c o n s i d e r b o t h o p t i o n s as s e r i o u s o p t i o n s .
A.

(By M r .
Do

Olague) Y e s .
f e e l t h a t why?

28 29
30 31

Q.
A.

you

(By M r .
Do

Olague) Y e s .

Q.

y o u f e e l t h a t y o u . w o u l d be a b l e t o

c o n s i d e r both o p t i o n s i n t h a t manner?
A.

32

(By M r .

Olague) Y e s .
91

..--,

~

Q.

Has this been a longstanding belief

o f y o u r s in reference t o t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ? A. ( B y Mr. Olague) Yes.

a
A.

A n d as he sits here in open c o u r t

t o d a y , a r e y o u able t o s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y ? (By M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. A n d if y o u w e r e s e l e c t e d o n t h i s j u r y

Q.

a n d y o u felt t h a t the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , would y o u b e a b l e t o c o m e b a c k
10

h e r e in open c o u r t and a n n o u n c e t h a t y o u h a v e

11

i m p o s e d t h e d e a t h penalty on F e l t o n D o r s e y a s part of this jury? A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

I

12

13

14
15 16
17

Q.
A.

Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. H a v e I missed a n y o t h e r t w o ' s a n d
I believe I h a v e c o v e r e d t h e m .

Q.
three's?

18
19

Now, l e t me t a l k t o my f o u r ' s here. L a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , in my e x p e r i e n c e , t h i s i s w h e r e a t times, t o o , I want e v e r y b o d y t o s e r i o u s l y consi'der the s a m e q u e s t i o n s I ' v e a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w jurors b e c a u s e in t h i s c l a s s i f i c a t i o n , y o u ' r e an i n d i v i d u a l t h a t f a v o r s l i f e , b u t c o u l d c o n s i d e r the d e a t h penalty.
So to t h a t e x t e n t , I ' l l s t a r t w i t h

20
21

22

23
24

25 26 27 28 29 30
31

I

y o u , Mr. Thomas.

You i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u w e r e

a four; is that correct?
A.

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes. The death penalty, is it a serious

Q.

o p t i o n f o r you as f a r as any c l a s s i f i c a t i o n o f cases related to first degree murder?
92

I

32

x
PI I -

rt
?(D

l o

P

H

3
(D

O I (D (D'

h

h

cc

M

M
Lc

.
3
Lc 0
C

P ,

.
x

Y

I -

.
(D

m

z Y

z
Y

H

I

c3 V
0

cl
P ,

3

c
0

0 C

3
P ,
() I
v

a
Y 0
P,

l -

rt
U .

CII P , Y
I

C m rt
0

H

I
H

rt
(D

c

T
.P,

rt
v )
(D

c

(D

Y Y
(D (D

ct
0 Y
(D

0
Y
I -

Hl 0 Y
I P-

X
P-

rt
I (D

P P P-

PY
(D

P,

3

x
(D

a

Y

M
(D

r:
'b

s e n t e n c e for a l l cases t h a t are f i r s t d e g r e e murders.

Q.

O k a y . And a t the e n d of t h e e v i d e n c e

s c h e m e , y o u may n o t b e l i e v e i t ' s a n

appropriate case in that p.articular case.
A.

(By M r . Thomas) Right. B u t going i n t o this c a s e i f y o u w e r e

Q.

s e l e c t e d and going i n t o the p e n a l t y p h a s e , i f t h e r e ' s a c o n v i c t i o n , w o u l d the d e a t h p e n a l t y

be a serious option for you to impose?
A.
(By M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.
Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q.
A.

Q.

Now, is there a n y t h i n g a b o u t f a v o r i n g
is

l i f e , but you could impose a death penalty,

there anything about that classification that would hurt your ability to impose the death penalty? A. again. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) C a n you a s k t h a t

Q.

I t ' s probably a b a d q u e s t i o n .

Is

t h e r e a n y t h i n g a b o u t what you r a t e d y o u r s e l f t h a t w o u l d h u r t your a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e t h e death penalty? A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No. Nothing t o t h e e f f e c t o f I ' v e g o t on

Q.

the j u r y , l i k e I s t a t e d in my e a r l i e r statements, and now that I have thought about i t , I j u s t d o n ' t think I c a n i m p o s e i t i n any c i r c u m s t a n c e , I probably s h o u l d h a v e r a t e d myself a five? A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No, s i r .

1
2

Q.

As

I have

asked your

fellow j u r o r s ,

a r e you able t o see t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open
court?
A.
CQ

3

(By M r .

Thomas)

Um- hum.
i f

.

In seeing the defendant,

you

felt

~

that

the evidence warranted the death penalty,

w o u l d you p e r s o n a l l y be a b l e t o come b a c k

into
of

8

open court and announce t h a t

y o u were p a r t

9
10
11
12

the decision that imposed the death p e n a l t y on
Felton Dorsey?
A.

(By M r . Do y o u (By M r .

Thomas)

Yes.

Q.
A.

feel strongly about t h a t ?
Thomas)

13

Yes.

14.
15
16
17

Q.

Ms. Thornton, the same line of
I n your

questions.

rating as a four,

is t h e

d e a t h p e n a l t y a n o p t i o n f o r a wide r a n g e o f

cases o r j u s t a narrow r a n g e o f
extreme manner
A.

cases i n a n

18

l i k e H i t l e r o r C h a r l e s Manson? Thornton) Again, I think
I

19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26

(By M s .

w o u l d h a v e t o know w h a t c i r c u m s t a n c e s , course, children,

of

elderly, .but a life is a

l i f e when

you t a k e a l i f e . Sure. (By M s . you Thornton) But know,
I would

Q.
A.

still

want

to hear,
I

some more d e t a i l s truly honest

before

c o u l d make a r e a l l y ,

27 28 29
30
31

decision.

Q.
I

Okay. mean

Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g -- I ' m
t o c u t you off. that's

sorry.

didn't
A.

(By M s .

Thornton) No,

okay. rating

Q.

Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g about your

32

t h a t would h u r t your a b i l i t y t o impose t h e
95

58Pl

d e a t h p e n a l t y in a c a s e ?

A.

(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) No.

Q.

I n o t h e r words, y o u ' v e i n d i c a t e d you

f a v o r l i f e , but you c o u l d i m p o s e t h e d e a t h penalty?
A.
(By Ms.
Thornton)
R i g h t .

Q.

Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h a t belief

t h a t w o u l d h u r t your' a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y if you f e l t t h e e v i d e n c e m e r i t s

the death penalty?
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I f I f e l t i t m e r i t s

t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , that's the way I w o u l d g o with, b u t I mean, t o m e , even l i f e in p r i s o n w o u l d b e a d e a t h s e n t e n c e in some c a s e s t o t h e
person.

Q.
A.

Okay.

( B y Ms. Thornton) I mean, h e o r s h e

w o u l d l o s e r e a l l y the quality o f l i f e i s what

I guess I'm saying.

I w o u l d j u s t h a v e to k n o w

w h i c h way t o g o o n , under the c i r c u m s t a n c e s .

Q.

Like I announced earlier, are there

a n y f e e l i n g s related t o what I s t a t e d t o t h e p a n e l a b o u t being on the j u r y a n d t h e n , a l l o f s u d d e n , midway through the c a s e , y o u f e e l l i k e , I s h o u l d h a v e t o l d them I ' m a f i v e i n s t e a d o f a f o u r , I c a n ' t do t h i s , I c a n ' t impose a death penalty? A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) No. Anything to t h a t e f f e c t ? ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) No.
So you d o feel t h a t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y

Q.
A.

Q.

is a s e r i o u s o p t i o n f o r y o u ?

eig

A.

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Yes,

it could be.

rn
c3

d-

court,
4

a r e you a b l e t o see him?
(By Ms.

A.

Thornton) Y e s .

5
6
7

Q.

And i n s e e i n g t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n
i f

open c o u r t , you

you a r e a p a r t o f

t h i s j u r y and

f e l t t h a t the evidence warranted the death w o u l d you p e r s o n a l l y be a b l e t o come

8

penalty,

9
10
11

back i n t o open c o u r t and announce t h a t you
were p a r t o f t h e v e r d i c t t h a t imposed t h e
d e a t h p e n a l t y on F e l t o n Dorsey?
A.

12

(By M s .

Thornton)

If

I

f e l t one-

13
14
15

hundred-percent sure, you know, that h e was
guilty, then

I could go w i t h it.
you
felt that

I II
I

Q.

So i f

the evidence you c o u l d i m p o s e

16
17

warrants the death penalty,
it?
A.

18
19
20 21

(By M s .

Thornton) Right.

Q.
A.

You f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h i s ? (By M s .
Mr.

T h o r n t o n ) Yes. you've i n d i c a t e d t h a t you

Q.

Walker,

22 23 24 25
26

were a f o u r .
A.

(By M r .
To that

Walker)

(Juror nods head.)
the

Q.

extent,

same l i n e o f
cases t h a t

questions,
have

i s there any type of
t h i s

you

narrowed
A.

v i e w

to?
No.
i f

27 28 29

(By M r .

Walker)
I

J u s t l i k e what
the

I ' v e heard,

t h e way

feel,

evidence
I

I

warrants t h e death penalty, ' I ' m

for that. but

30
3 1 32

have no problem w i t h t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ,

you h a v e t o l o o k a t a l l t h e e v i d e n c e t o see i f
it warrants
that.

I

Q.
A.

Absolutely. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I d o f a v o r l i f e . I

f e e l l i k e i f the p e r s o n j u s t c o m m i t t e d a

I
I

4
5

crime, they need to go jail and do t h e t i m e
a n d e v e r y t h i n g , b u t if i t ’ s - - if i t g o e s l i k e H i t l e r , Manson or what h a v e y o u , t h e r e i s no d o u b t i n m y m i n d the d e a t h p e n a l t y n e e d s t o go

6

7

I
I
I

8

9
10
11
12

Q.

This is why I a s k e d this q u e s t i o n ,

though, would H i t l e r a n d C h a r l e s M a n s o n a n d in
c a s e s w h e r e s o m e o n e may b l o w u p a s c h o o l or - A. ( B y M r . Walker) Right.
- - a b u s load o f

13

Q*

children, a lot of

14
15

j u r o r s state t h a t ’ s easy for me to do, b u t in
r e f e r e n c e t o widening the c l a s s e s o f cases

16
17

t h a t you c o u l d consider the d e a t h p e n a l t y for, w o u l d y o u b e a b l e to d o t h a t ? A. ( B y M r . Walker) I w o u l d b e a b l e t o . You would c o n s i d e r i t a s a s e r i o u s

18

19
20

Q.
option? A.

21
22

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. Now, t o the e x t e n t t h a t we ’have

Q.
A.

23 24 25
26 27

Q.

alleged a first degree murder where i t ’ s a r o b b e r y , a k i d n a p p i n g , an a g g r a v a t e d a r s o n , a n a t t e m p t t o k i l l m o r e one p e r s o n , d o y o u f e e l that t h a t ’ s a case that the death penalty would be a serious option? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I f t h e r e i s a d e a t h

28 29 30
31

i n v o l v e d a n d i t was p r e m e d i t a t e d - -

32

Q.

K e e p in mind, w h e n you s a y

"premeditated," that

is a

TV

show word.

A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) I u n d e r s t a n d . In s o m e j u r i s d i c t i o n s , p r e m e d i t a t i o n

Q.

i s r e q u i r e d . In Louisiana, s p e c i f i c i n t e n t c a n f o r m in an instant a n d d i s a p p e a r in a n

instance. There's no premeditation in
Louisiana.

A.

(By Mr. Walker) If there's a death

involved, yes, I can consider that.

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t , i s t h e r e a n y t h i n g

a b o u t y o u r rating system that would hurt y o u r a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r )

No.

Q.

As t o my earlier s t a t e m e n t s a n d the

same questions with y o u r fellow j u r o r s , is
there anything a b o u t b e i n g s e l e c t e d on t h i s
j u r y a n d t h e n , a l l of a s u d d e n , r e a l i z i n g midway through, I should have rated myself a f i v e , I c a n ' t c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ? A.
Q -.

(By M r . W a l k e r ) No. Are t h e r e any t h o u g h t s in t h a t

manner?
A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o . S e e i n g the d e f e n d a n t h e r e in o p e n

Q.

court, are you able to see Felton Dorsey? A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, I am. If y o u felt the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d

Q.

the death penalty, would you be able to impose t h a t s e n t e n c e and announce i t i n o p e n c o u r t ? A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, sir. M r . Jefferson, s a m e q u e s t i o n s .
You

Q.

rated y o u r s e l f a f o u r .

Is there only a narrow

c l a s s o f cases t h a t y o u w o u l d c o n s i d e r t h e death penalty? A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o . C o u l d you explain what you w o u l d
the death penalty

Q.
consider
I

for?

A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Any c a s e s t h a t c a n

p r o v e t o me without a d o u b t t h a t t h e y a c t u a l l y d i d the c r i m e , I h a v e n o p r o b l e m t h a t , b u t if you c a n n o t p r o v e ' i t w i t h o u t a d o u b t , I h a v e a p r o b l e m with it.

Q.

O k a y . Let me a s k y o u t h i s :

In your

earlier round of statements, it you looked l i k e you were wrestling with the dec'ision, a n d

then

YOU i n d i c a t e d i f

i t was for children I

c o u l d d o i t , s o m e extreme cases of that n a t u r e , a r e there any t h o u g h t s a l o n g t h o s e l i n e s t h a t you s t i l l feel?

A.

( B y Mr. Jefferson) No.. W h a t was giving you e a r l i e r

Q.

reservations? A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I have some kids

of s o m e f r i e n d s o f m i n e l o s t a k i d in a m u r d e r c a s e a n d t h a t w a s it. It t o u c h e d o n - - a n d

with k i d s , t h a t ' s why I p u t the e m p h a s i s o n that one.

Q.

W e l l , let me s t a t e t h i s , i n t h i s

p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , there w a s n o k i d s - A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.
- - t h a t were k i l l e d .

Q.

And I mean,

it's not a situation of a Hitler, where there. was mass death, nothing to that extreme, extreme spectrum. It's a homicide, as we have

1
2

alleged,

committed while t h e y ' r e

in the kidnapping,

commission o f arson,

a felony,

a robbery,

3
4

a t t e m p t e d t o k i l l more t h a n o n e v i c t i m ,

i s t h a t a s c e n a r i o where you c o u l d e n v i s i o n

5
6

'

i m p o s i n g the death penalty if you felt the
evidence warranted it?

7
8

A.

(By M r .

Jefferson)

Yes.

Q.
A.
Q-

Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

9
10

(By M r .
.
Do

Jefferson)
feel
i f

Yes.

you

you a r e a j u r o r t h a t

11

c o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

12 13

A.

(By M r .

Jefferson) Oh,

yeah.

Q.

A s t o my s t a t e m e n t s e a r l i e r i n

14
15

r e f e r e n c e t o a j u r o r t h a t g e t s on a case l i k e
t h i s

and then m i d w a y through realized,
I

I

16 17

s h o u l d h a v e t o l d t h e DA I w a s a f i v e , impose a death p e n a l t y , nature.

can't that

o r any f e e l i n g of

18 19 20 21
22

A.

(By M r .

J e f f e r s o n ) Whatever t h e
that

e v i d e n c e show m e a n d p r o v e t o m e , no problem.

creates

Q.

NOW,

i n reference t o seeing the

23 24
25
26

defendant here i n open c o u r t , see F e l t o n Dorsey?

a r e you a b l e t o

A.

(By M r .

Jefferson)

Yes,

I

am.

Q.

S e e i n g h i m a s t h e p e r s o n who w e ' r e
i f

27 28
29 30

s e e k i n g t h e death p e n a l t y on,
the

you

felt that

e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s i t , w o u l d you be a b l e t o

come b a c k i n o p e n c o u r t a n d a n n o u n c e t h a t y o u
were a p a r t o f
death penalty

the verdict

that

imposed t h e

31
32

on F e l t o n Dorsey? Jefferson)
Yes.

A.

(By M r .

Q *'
A.

Do you feel strongly about t h a t ?
(By Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

Q.

Ms. Snelling.

A.

(By Ms, Snelling) Yes, I c o u l d impose

the death penalty if the evidence warrants
that.

Q.

Now, in rating yourself a f o u r , i s

there a narrow class o f c a s e s that you are

willing to consider?
A.

( B y M s . Snelling) N o . Such cases a s extreme a s H i t l e r o r

Q.

child cases?

A.

(By Ms. Snelling) Definitely those,

b u t I would consider others, too.

Q.

The case that we have alleged t o d a y ,

we c a n ' t g e t i n t o the facts, but the e l e m e n t s we have presented a s far as the k i l l i n g during the commission o f a robbery, kidnapping, arson o r a n attempt to kill more than one p e r s o n , d o you feel that that i s a charge that you c o u l d seriously consider the death penalty f o r ?
A.

(By Ms. Snelling) Yes. In seeing the defendant here i n o p e n

Q.

c o u r t today and understanding t h a t t h a t i s the individual that we s e e k to impose the d e a t h penalty on, if you felt that e v i d e n c e warranted that imposition, would you be a b l e to come back here in open court a n d a n n o u n c e t h a t you were part o f the jury verdict t h a t imposed the death penalty on Felton Dorsey?
A.

(By M s . Snelling) Yes. D o you feel strongly about t h a t ?
102

Q.

..-

A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. Is there anything I stated earlier

Q.

a b o u t j u r o r s t h a t get on t h e s e t y p e o f j u r i e s a n d t h e n m i d w a y through t h e c a s e r e a l i z e , I should have told the D A I w a s a five, I can't d o t h i s ; d o you h a v e any f e e l i n g s a b o u t that?
A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No. Mr. Walters. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I m e a n , t h e d e a t h
i s w h a t i t is.

Q.
A.
penalty

If the evidence

warrants it, then it warrants it, but I'm sure, like everyone else on this jury, nobody favors the death penalty. We favor life in

general, but if somebody commits a crime so
h e i n o u s t h a t i t falls u n d e r t h e g u i d e l i n e s of o u r l a w s a n d o u r justice s y s t e m , t h e n I h a v e t o f a c t o r in the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

Q.
that?
A.

O k a y . Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes. Is that a longstanding belief? (By M r . Walters) Yes.

Q.
A.

Q.

As I h a v e a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w j u r o r s ,

d o e s y o u r r a t i n g a l l o w you only c o n s i d e r a t i o n on a n a r r o w c l a s s o f c a s e s , o r i s i t a w i d e spectrum?
A.

( B y M r . Walters) No.

It would be a

wide spectrum.

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) If the c r i m e f i t s

t h e p u n i s h m e n t then so b e i t .

a.

The allegations that we have

p r e s e n t e d t o you a s far a s a h o m i c i d e committed during a robbery, kidnapping, arson, t h e a t t e m p t to k i l l more than o n e p e r s o n , i s t h a t a c h a r g e t h a t you feel t h a t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y w o u l d b e a s e r i o u s o p t i o n for?

A.

(By M r . Walters) As I s t a t e d , I m e a n ,

I f a v o r l i f e in g e n e r a l , b u t if t h e c r i m e f i t s
e x a c t l y what was on that s c r e e n , t h e n t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y i s that o p t i o n .
have to consider that option.

Then I would

Q.

Is it s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l t h a t

you could impose?

A. Q.

(By Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.
Now,

in r e f e r e n c e , t o seeing the

d e f e n d a p t h e r e in open c o u r t t o d a y , a r e y o u a b l e t o s e e Felton D o r s e y ? A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Y e s , I c a n . A n d s e e i n g him a s the l i v e p e r s o n

Q.

t h a t we i n t e n d t o i m p o s e , t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n h e r e in o p e n c o u r t , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o b e p a r t o f t h e verdict t h a t c o m e s b a c k a n d i m p o s e s t h e d e a t h penalty o n F e l t o n D o r s e y if y o u f e l t t h a t t h e evidence m e r i t s t h a t imposition?
A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y e s . D o you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
\

Q.
A.

'(By M r . Walters) Yes. Ms. .Dixon, h a v e I c o v e r e d y o u yet? ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. M s . Hicks, I got you.
Is t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e t h a t I m i s s e d

Q.
A.

Q.

h e r e on t h i s p a n e l ?

A.
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

(By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) No.
( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) No. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No. (By M r . W a l k e r ) No. ( B y Ms. Hicks) No. (By Ms. D i x o n ) No. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) No

A.

A.
A.

A. A. A.

A.
A.

(By Ms. Snelling) No.
(By Mr. Jefferson) No.
(By M s . Clay) No. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

A. A.

M R . THOMPSON:

Your H o n o r , may I

approach briefly with d e f e n s e c o u n s e l .
( W h e r e u p o n a side- bar discussion off t h e r e c o r d was h e l d . ) THE COURT: Please take the jury out.

( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s e x c u s e d from the c o u r t r o o m . ) THE COURT: B e f o r e we b r e a k , I n e e d t o

p u t o n e t h i n g on the r e c o r d , a n d t h a t i s in r e f e r e n c e to M s . J o a n n e S t e w a r t w h o w a s e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t f o r c a u s e , a n d I b e l i e v e w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from the S t a t e a n d d e f e n s e ; is that correct? MR. T H O M P S O N : T H E COURT: Yes, sir.

Is t h a t c o r r e c t , d e f e n s e ?

MR. MCCLATCHEY: THE COURT:

Y e s , s i r , Y o u r Honor.

B a s i c a l l y , Ms. S t e w a r t ' s

d a u g h t e r i s an a s s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y with the district attorney's office p r o s e c u t i n g t h i s case. In a d d i t i o n , b e c a u s e

-..

of t h e n a t u r e of the c a s e , s h o u l d t h e r e b e a

m
GI

7

C o u r t of Appeals Federal C o u r t i n
h u s b a n d i s a sitting judge.

which h e r

A n d f o r those

reasons, the Court will excuse her for cause. MR. T H O M P S O N : p o s e n o objections.
10

For t h o s e r e a s o n s , w e

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d from the venire p a n e l . ) THE COURT: Thank you. We will be in

11

12 13

r e c e s s for ten m i n u t e s .

14
15
16
17

(Whereupon a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . )
( W h e r e u p o n t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t w i t h counsel. ) MR. THOMPSON: Recalling the case of

18
19
20

S t a t e of Louisiana v s . F e l t o n D o r s e y , D o c k e t No. 2 5 1 , 4 0 6 , the d e f e n d a n t i s p r e s e n t with c o u n s e l , Mr. A l a n G o l d e n a n d Mr. D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y . Dhu Thompson and

21 22 23
24

Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t f o r t h e d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y ' s office. jury. W e a r e o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e o f the
W e are r e a d y t o p r o c e e d w i t h v o i r d i r e .

25 26
27

THE COURT:

Is t h e d e f e n s e r e a d y .

M R . MCCLATCHEY: THE COURT: them in.

Yes, Your Honor. You may bring

All r i g h t .

28
29
30 31

( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom.) THE COURT: ready to proceed.
106

A l l right.

Is t h e S t a t e

32

MR. T H O M P S O N :
THE COURT:

We are, Your H o n o r .

A l l right.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q.

Good day again, ladies and gentlemen.

I h o p e the b r e a k h a s r e e n g e r g i z e d u s f o r t h e
l a s t p a r t of t h e voir dire. My next topic

c e n t e r s on c o m m u n i t y v i e w s a b o u t t h e d e a t h penalty. N o w , when I t h i n k a b o u t my

community,

I a l w a y s c h a r a c t e r i z e it c h u r c h , e x t e n d e d family, rugby team, tennis team, basketball b u d d i e s . So I want t o a s k y o u a s t h e l a d i e s

and g e n t l e m e n of this v e n i r e p o o l , s t a r t i n g
with y o u , Mr: Natale, w h o m a k e s u p y o u r

-

,

community? A. (By Mr. Natale) Family, co-workers,

p e o p l e I a s s o c i a t e with.

Q.

H a v e you e v e r d i s c u s s e d t h e t o p i c o f

t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y with t h e m ?
A.

(By Mr. Natale) Sure. And d o you know what t h e i r v i e w s a r e

Q.

about the death penalty? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Many o f t h e m , y e s . A r e they in f a v o r o f i t o r a g a i n s t

Q.
it? A.

(By Mr. Natale) Overwhelmingly in

f a v o r of it.

Q.

O v e r w h e l m i n g l y in f a v o r .

Okay. With

t h e i r v i e w s a n d knowing t h a t t h e y a r e o v e r w h e l m i n g l y in. f a v o r o f i t , i f y o u ,were s e r v i n g a s a j u r o r in t h i s c a s e a n d y o u w e r e

r,!

family.
2
3

Q.

Do you know what their views are on

the death penalty?
A.

4

(By M s . Thornton) Some of them, but

5
6

it's not something that we have really talked
about that much, though.

7
8

Q.

Okay. So you d o n ' t really know what

their views are one way or the other?

9

A.

(By M s . Thornton) No.

10
11 12
13

a.

If you were to render a decision in

this case, whether it be for the death penalty or for a life sentence, I ' l l start with the death penalty, would that be something that

14
15
16

you would f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e , y o u c o u l d g o b a c k
to your family and friends a n d live with that decision?
A.

17
18

(By Ms. Thornton) Yes, it would be my It wouldn't have anything to d o

decision. with t h e m .

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26

Q.
A.

The same with a life sentence? (By Ms. Thornton) Right. If you had to render the d e a t h

Q.

penalty and going back to your community and with yourself, is that a decision that you could live with in your heart, once again the decision i s based on the facts and the evidence?
A.

27 28
29
30

(By M s . Thornton) Right. Well, I ' v e always heard jurors say,

Q.

well, I've got to live with it, too; is that a decision that you feel that you could live with in your heart?

31 32

A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. You feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ? ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q.
A.

Q*

Ms. Edwards, I d o n ' t want t o make it

seem like I'm being rude by passing you, but
I ' v e g o t y o u r v i e w s d o w n as f a r as t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , so I feel l i k e t h e s e q u e s t i o n s may n o t h i t with you.

So I d o n ' t want you t o f e e l

rude if I am going to skip you, okay - - or I
10

don't

want

you t o feel l i k e

I'm b e i n g rude.

11

Mr. O l a g u e , w h o m a k e s u p y o u r community?

12

13

A.

( B y Mr. Olague) R e t i r e d m e m b e r s of

14
15

the fire department and my family.
Q.
Do you k n o w what t h e i r l v i e w s are the

16 17

death penalty?

A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.. I t w o u l d 'be

18 19
20 21 22 23 24
25

o v e r w h e l m i n g l y f o r the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

Q.
A.

O v e r w h e l m i n g l y f o r the d e a t h p e s a l t y . (By Mr. O l a g u e ) (Juror nods head.)

Q.

If you 'were t o sit o n t h i s j u r y a n d

y o u v o t e d f o r the d e a t h p e n a l t y , w o u l d t h a t b e a d e c i s i o n t h a t you c o u l d g o b a c k t o y o u r community and friends live with?
A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. I f you h a d t o vote f o r a l i f e

26
27

Q.

s e n t e n c e because you felt t h a t t h a t w a s t h e b e s t p u n i s h m e n t based on t h i s p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , i s t h a t a d e c i s i o n t h a t you feel l i k e y o u c o u l d g o b a c k t o your c o m m u n i t y a n d l i v e w i t h ?
A.

28 29
30

31 32

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. Either penalty, whether it be the

Q.

---.

d e a t h p e n a l t y or a l i f e s e n t e n c e , w o u l d y o u f e e l l i k e y o u c o u l d live with t h a t d e c i s i o n in your heart?

A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

5
6

Q.
A.

Do you feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes, s i r , I d o . Mr. W a l k e r , s a m e q u e s t i o n . ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I t ' s t h e c o m m u n i t y ,

7
8

Q.
A.

9
10

church, co- workers.

As f a r as g o i n g b a c k a n d

t e l l i n g t h e m s o m e t h i n g if they asked m e , t h e y w o u l d h a v e the s a m e views t h a t I ' v e g o t f o r t h e m o s t of them t h a t I ' v e t a l k e d to.
\

11
12

I

13 14
15 16
17

h a v e n ' t t a l k e d t o a l o t o f them in d e t a i l t o

k n o w this because I ' v e felt l i k e i t was
something that's personal. But if I d o t a l k

s o m e b o d y , e s p e c i a l l y . m y wife, I k n o w w h a t h e r view i s , I d o n ' t h a v e a p r o b l e m t e l l i n g h e r , but a s f a r g o i n g b a c k and d i s c u s s i n g i t , unless I was just cornered, I would keep it to myself.

18

19
20

21

Q.
A.
t h e jury.

Okay. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) T h a t ' s b e t w e e n m e and

2 2'
23 24 25 26 27 28 29

Q.

W o u l d you l e t a n y o f y o u r c o m m u n i t y

v i e w s a f f e c t your d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g a b i l i t y a s to this decision?
A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No. Either decision, would you be able to

Q.

l i v e w i t h t h a t in y o u r h e a r t ?

30 31 32

A.

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. With your community and with your

Q.
friends?

--"..

0
1
2

.. -

A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes,

I would.

Q.
A.

Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
(By M r .
Ms.

Olague)

Yes.

I I

4

,Q.
A.

Clay. Clay)

5

(By M s .

Yes.

6
7

Q.
mind?
A.

Who m a k e s u p y o u r c o m m u n i t y i n y o u r

8
9

(By M s .

C l a y ) My h u s b a n d i s a p a s t o r ,

s o w e p r e t t y much l i v e t h e r e .

W have never e

10
11
12
13 14

discussed t h e death penalty w i t h everybody
there.

W have o t h e r topics t o t a l k about. e
Okay.

Q.
A.

So y o u r h u s b a n d i s a p a s t o r ?
Clay)

(By M s .
A r e you

Yes.
church?

Q,. A.

affiliated with the

15
16
17
18
19

( B y Ms. C l a y ) I

am.
I mean,

Q.
A.

And w h a t d o y o u d o w i t h t h e c h u r c h ?
(By M s . C l a y ) Well, like
I

h e l p him.

Q.

Oh,

okay.

Do y o u k n o w a n y o f

the

20 21 22 23 24
25

v i e w s of y o u r c h u r c h m e m b e r s ?
A.

(B'y M s .

C l a y ) We've

never discussed

it ever,

honestly. Okay. (By M s . but Clay) There's probably pro a f f e c t my v i e w .

Q.
A.

and con,

it wouldn't

26
27
i f

Q.

If y o u w e r e t o s i t o n t h i s j u r y a n d
would
1

y o u were t o r e n d e r t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , something t h a t you would f e e l

28 29 30
31

t h a t be

c o m f o r t a b l e g o i n g b a c k t o you your friends with?
A.

community and t o

(By M s .

Clay)

I probably wouldn't
Yeah,
i f

32

t a l k t o them about it, h o n e s t l y .

it

112

5828

came u p in the conversation.

Q.

Being associated with the c h u r c h and

having a husband that's a pastor, I k n o w sometimes, you know, some pastors may s h a r e
t h e f e e l i n g s against the death penalty.

A.

(By Ms. C l a y )

Yes.

Q.

And the church may have some f e e l i n g s

against the death penalty, especially, the Catholics.
\

10

A.

( B y M s . C l a y ) I a m n o t Catholic.

11

Q.

Well, to that extent, would you feel

12

comfortable going back to your church, t o your husband i f you had to render the d e a t h

13

14
15
16
17

penalty?
A.
me. ( B y Ms. Clay) I t wouldn't matter t o Honestly, I d o n ' t think i t would c o m e up

in the conversation.

18 19
20

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I mean, I wouldn't g o

back and blab, oh, this i s what h a p p e n e d . It's just not something that we would talk about.

21
22 23 24
25

Q.

So would your community views i n any

way affect your decision- making a b i l i t y in this case? A. (By M s . C l a y ) No, n o t at all. Would you be able t o l i v e with y o u r

26 27

Q.

28
29

decision in your heart and in a p e r s o n a l manner, whatever decision you r e n d e r ? A. (By Ms. C l a y ) Yes. And you feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ? (By Ms. C l a y ) I would.

30
31
32

Q.
A.

.-.

Q.
A.
4

Mr. J e f f e r s o n , same q u e s t i o n , who
community? J e f f e r s o n ) My f a m i l y a n d
I

makes up your

I

61 2

(By M r .

c o - w o r k e r s . And a s f a r a s t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , have no e a r t h l y idea what t h e i r f e e l i n g s are.

5

6
7 8
9
I

A s f a r as t a l k i n g t o them,

I d o n ' t k n o w my
And w o u l d i t

f a m i l y v i e w s o r my c o - w o r k e r s . c h a n g e my m i n d ? n o ,

i t w o n ' t c h a n g e my m i n d .

Q.

Would t h e c o m m u n i t y v i e w s i n a n y way

10
11

change your o r affect your decision- making?
A.

(By M r .
If

J e f f e r s o n ) No.

I
I

12
13
1 4
15

Q.
penalty,

you h a d t o r e n d e r t h e d e a t h

w o u l d t h a t be a d e c i s i o n t h a t you

c o u l d g o back t o y o u r community a n d t o y o u r
f r i e n d s and i n d i c a t e t h a t

t h a t was my

I

16
17

decision?
A.

(By M r .

Jefferson) anyway.

Yes,

and i t ' s none

18
19

of

their business,

Q.

You made a n i n t e r e s t i n g c o m m e n t

20

earlier i n reference t o the hardship s i t u a t i o n

21
22 23
24 25 26

a n d t h a t God w o u l d t a k e c a r e o f
A.

it.

(By M r .

Jefferson)

Urn-hum.
is there

Q.

In reference t o that,

a n y t h i n g about any r e l i g i o u s views t h a t would h u r t y o u r a b i l i t y t o impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y i n a n y way?
A.

27 28
29
i f

(By M r .

Jefferson)

If

the

crime f i t s ,

t h e crime j u s t i f i e s d e a t h ,

i t ' s d.eath.

Q.

And a s I ' v e a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w j u r o r s ,

30
3 1 32

w o u l d y o u be a b l e t o l i v e w i t h y o u r d e c i s i o n i n y o u r he,art t o whatever d e c i s i o n you make a s
far as the penalty?

I

A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

Q.
A.
4

M s . Snelling.
( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) C h u r c h , c o - w o r k e r s ,
A n d I know m y

family.

co-workers.

5

Q.
A.

O k a y . What are t h e i r f e e l i n g s ? ( B y Ms. Snelling) T h e y a r e p r o t h e It hasn't come up in the

6 7

death penalty.

8

n e i g h b o r h o o d or a s far as g o i n g b a c k , I

9
10
11
12

p r o b a b l y w o u l d n ' t , t a l k a b o u t it. I t ' s m y
d e c i s i o n , anyway.

Q.

W o u l d their views a f f e c t y o u r

d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g ability?

13
1 4

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No.
In e i t h e r d e c i s i o n
that
you

make,

15

w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o l i v e with t h a t ?
A.

16
17 18

( B y M s . Snelling) I'm g o i n g t o

h o n e s t l y s a y I would h o p e so, b u t I c a n ' t s a y honestly.

19
20 2 1 22
23
24

Q.
A.

W h a t g i v e s you i s s u e w i t h that? ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) J u s t , you k n o w ,

being responsible for taking someone's life.

Q.

K e e p i n mind, i t i s a jury d e c i s i o n ,

it's a punishment provided by law.
A.

( B y M s . Snelling) R i g h t .
I hate for a juror to take the

25
26

Q.

p o s i t i o n , I t o o k s o m e b o d y ' s l i f e to t h a t extent, but - A.

27
28

(By M s . Snelling) I understand, but

29
30 31

s t i l l , I was p a r t o f t h a t d e c i s i o n , i t d o e s h a v e t o b e unanimous, r i g h t ?

Q.
A.

Yes, it has to be unanimous. (By Ms. Snelling) I w o u l d b e a p a r t

.-

of that.

Q.
process. A.

T h a t ' s why I k e e p h i t t i n g on t h i s

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) A n d I c a n ' t

h o n e s t l y s a y t h a t , y e a h , 1'11 be able to live with myself.

Q.

Do you s t i l l feel t h a t yo'u w o u i d

be capable to serve - -

A.
10

(By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I f e e l l i k e I c o u l d
I ' m n o t s u r e h o w I w o u l d feel

I

capably d o it. a b o v t it.

11
12 13

Q.
honesty.

M s . Snelli.ng, I thank y o u f o r y o u r '

I

14
15

M r . Walters.
A.

( B y Mr. Walters) N a t u r a l l y , c h u r c h , Have I discussed?

16
17

n e i g h b o r h o o d a n d family.

n o t - - m a y b e in a g e n e r a l term o v e r t h e term o f y e a r s , b u t s o m e a r e p r o a n d s o m e a r e con.

18 19 20
21

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I r e a l l y d o n ' t g e t

b o t h e r e d by what o t h e r p e o p l e t h i n k . I n e v e r h a v e . I mean, I live with what I l i v e w i t h in my .heart.

22
23

24 25
26

Q.

W o u l d your c o m m u n i t y v i e w s i n a n y way

affect your decision-making ability? A. form. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) In n o w a y , s h a p e . o r

27 28 29

Q.

W o u l d you be able t o l i v e with

w h a t e v e r penalty you i m p o s e w i t h y o u r community and your friends?
A.

30
31

I

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) A b s o l u t e l y , y e s .
Do you feel t h a t you c o u l d l i v e with

32

Q.

1
2 3 4

w h a t e v e r d e c i s i o n you m a k e i n y o u r h e a r t in this case?
A.

P"VY

,

FY

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

It's not

something I would discuss openly with anybody.

5
6

It is o u r c h o i c e , and t h a t ' s w h a t w e w o u l d
h a v e t o l i v e with, and I c o u l d l i v e w i t h t h a t .

7

Q.

M s . Dixon, w h o m a k e s u p y o u r

8

community?

9

A.

(By Ms. Dixon) All o f t h e a b o v e .

10
11
12
13

Q*
A.

When you say "all of the above" - (By Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

Q.
A.

- - church, neighborhood?
( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes. E x t e n d e d family?
(By Ms.
D i x o n )

14
15

Q.
A.

Yes.

16

Q.
I

S o c i a l clubs.

Are you p a r t o f a n y

17

social clubs?
A.

18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

(By M s . D i x o n ) Yes. W h a t o n e s are you a p a r t o f ? (By Ms. Dixon) Sorority. D o you k n o w what y o u r c o m m u n i t y v i e w s

Q.
A.

Q.

are o n t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) N o , I ' v e n e v e r

d i s c u s s e d it.

Q.
A.

N e v e r d i s c u s s e d it with t h e m ? ( B y M s . D i x o n ) No.

26
27

Q.

As far a s the d e c i s i o n y o u w o u l d m a k e

28 29 30 31 32

in t h i s c a s e , if y o u w e r e to vote f o r t h e death penalty, would that be a decision that you c o u l d l i v e with, with y o u r f r i e n d s , y o u r community, your social clubs?

A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) I mean, I w o u l d b e

a b l e to make the decision. d i s c u s s it.

I wouldn't really

Q.
I

I am sorry?
(By Ms. Dixon) I would be a b l e t o
open

4
5

A.

I

I

live with t h e decision, b u t I w o u l d n ' t b e to a n y o p e n discussion with other people.

'

Q.
you?

Would it be a private d e c i s i o n f o r

A.
10

(By M s . Dixon) Yes.
Would their view

Q.

in any way affect

11

your decision-making ability?

12
13

A.

(By Ms. Dixon) N o . I f you were to render the d e a t h

Q.

14
15

penalty, would that be a decision that you
c o u l d l i v e with in your heart?

16
17

A.

(By Ms. Dixon) Yes.
D o you feel strongly about that?

Q.
A.

18
19
20 2 1 22

(By Ms. Dixon) But I think o n c e you

make that decision, you need t o k n o w t h a t you made the decision and you move o n .

Q.

Is that something t h a t you f e e l like

you can d o ?
A.

23
24 25

(By Ms. Dixon) Yes.
Ms. Hicks.

Q.
A.

(By Ms. Hicks) Church, e x t e n d e d

26
27

family, co-workers.

Q.

D o you know what their views are o n

28
29

the d e a t h penalty?
A.

(By Ms. Hicks) For the most p a r t ,

30

they are for the death penalty.

31 32

Q.

Would their views in any way a f f e c t

your decision-making ability a b o u t a

1

p u n i s h m e n t in t h i s c a s e ?

I
I

2

A.

( B y Ms. Hicks) N o .

3
4

Q.

As I a s k e d Mr. N a t a l e , if i t w a s a

life' s e n t e n c e , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o g o b a c k t o y o u r c o m m u n i t y . w i t h your decision? A. (By Ms. Hicks) Yes. And if you had to render the death

5
I

6

7
8

Q.

penalty, would that be a decision that you c o u l d l i v e in y o u r h e a r t ?
A.
( B y Ms.
Hicks)

9
10

It w o u l d ' b e h a r d ,

but

11
12

if t h a t ' s what d e c i s i o n i s , y e s .

Q.

Mr. Thomas, t h e s a m e q u e s t i o n , w h o

13

m a k e s u p y o u r community?

14
15 16

A.
family.

(By Mr.

Thomas) Neighbors, church,

Q.

Do you k n o w what t h e i r v i e w s a r e o n

17

the death penalty?

18
19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26

A.

(By Mr. Thomas) Some family, I guess.

M o r e t h a n the r e s t , b u t

....

Q.
A.

Do y o u k n o w what they a r e ?
( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I t h i n k t h a t - For or a g a i n s t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ? (By M r . T h o m a s ) I think t h e y a r e f o r

Q.
A.

the death penalty.

Q.

O k a y . Would t h e i r v i e w s in a n y way

a f f e c t y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g a b i l i t y a s t o the punishment here? A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No. A n d would you b e a b l e o r w o u l d y o u

27 28 29 30 31 32

Q.

feel comfortable going back to your community if you had to render a verdict of death? A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q.

The same.questions I have asked the

other jurors, is that a decision you could live with your heart?

A.
Q.
that?
7
8 9
10

(By Mr. Thomas) I'm not sure.
W h a t w o u l d g i v e you the i s s u e about

A.

( B y M r . Thomas) I j u s t , t h e f a c t t h a t

we h a v e to d e c i d e whether o r n o t s o m e o n e d e s e r v e s t o l i v e or die.
Q.

D o e s a n y b o d y else n e e d t o

add

11
12

a n y t h i n g to t h e i r a n s w e r s b e f o r e I m o v e o n t o the final topics?

13
14

A.
A.

(By M r . Natale) (No response.)
(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) (By Mr. Olague) (By Mr. Walker)
(No r e s p o n s e . )

15

A. A. A.
A.

(No r e s p o n s e . )

16
17
18 19

(No r e s p o n s e . ) (No response.)

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) (By M s . Dixon)
(No response.)

A.
A.

20 21 22 23 24 25
26

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) . ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Ms. Clay) (No response.) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) Ladies and gentlemen, this is my T h i s i s the p e n a l t y p h a s e . I'm

A.

A.
A. A.

Q.

f i n a l topic. m o v i n g ahead.

27 28 29 30 31
32

K e e p in m i n d o u r f l o w c h a r t .

In jury s e l e c t i o n , g u i l t p h a s e , p u t t i n g t h e c a r t b e f o r e the horse, I ' m now m o v i n g a h e a d a s if we h a v e s e c u r e d a c o n v i c t i o n in t h i s c a s e , a n d we w e r e in the p e n a l t y p h a s e , o u r
c

s e n t e n c i n g hearing f o c u s , t h i s i s w h e r e
120

5836

I

1
2
3

a d d i t i o n a l e v i d e n c e can b e c o n s i d e r e d f o r the jury to make a determination of what is the a p p r o p r i a t e s e n t e n c e in t h i s s p e c i f i c case.

The sentencing hearing will focus on
circumstances of the offense, the character
a n d p r o p e n s i t i e s o f the o f f e n d e r a n d t h e
I

7

i m p a c t o f the m u r d e r o n t h e f a m i l y o f t h e victim.
When I

8
9

say

"circumstances

of

the

10

o f f e n s e , " M s . C l a y , what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d ? W h e n I s a y you c a n h e a r a d d i t i o n a l e v i d e n c e - -

11

12

A.

( B y Ms. Clay) L i k e j u s t a n y t h i n g e l s e

13
14
15

that could have caused the thing t o have
happened.
I don't know.
You a r e on the r i g h t p a t h . I t ' s a

Q.

16
17
18

c o m m o n s e n s e a p p r o a c h t o what h a p p e n e d in t h e case.
Do you agree with t h a t ,

19
20

Mr. J e f f e r s o n ?
A.

(By Mr. Jefferson) Yes. How d i d the m u r d e r o c c u r ? What did

21
22
23
24

Q.
they d o ?
A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. Okay. When I talk about the

Q.

25 26
27 28

" c h a r a c t e r and p r o p e n s i t i e s of the offender,'' Ms. T h o r n t o n , what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d ?
A.
Q.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) I f t h a t ' s going t o b e a f o c u s in t h e

29

penalty phase.

30
31

A.
really.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) W e l l , I d o n ' t k n o w
I d o n ' t know.

32

Q.

Do you want a l i f e line?
121

5537

A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. Mr. N a t a l e , what w o u l d b e t h e

Q.
focus - -

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Well, from m y
that's when the defense puts people

experience

o n t h e s t a n d , t a l k i n g a b o u t the d e f e n d a n t , what, i f a n y , kind o f u p s t a n d i n g c h a r a c t e r i s t i c s he may have, what h e h a s d o n e

in t h e c o m m u n i t y , t h o s e s o r t of t h i n g s , t h e
pro side
of

the

individual,

so

to

speak.

Q.
A.

C o u l d there a c o n s i d e p r e s e n t e d ? ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) P r o b a b l y n o t by t h e

d e f e n s e , but certainly b y the p r o s e c u t i o n .

Q.
A.

Do y o u a g r e e w i t h t h a t , Mr. W a l t e r s ?
( B y M r . Walters) Y e s . Do you s e e where b o t h a r g u m e n t s c o u l d

Q.

b e m a d e a s t o a s the charact'er and p r o p e n s i t i e s o f the o f f e n d e r ?

A.

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. Whether or not they're a first time
I

Q.

o f f e n d e r a n d a multitude of d e f e n s e s , w h e t h e r they were a g o o d person in t h e c o m m u n i t y , there's all types of evidence that could be considered. Do you agree with t h a t , Ms. D i x o n ?
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
M s . D i x o n , when I t a l k a b o u t t h e

Q.

i m p a c t o f t h e m u r d e r o n the f a m i l y o f t h e victim, what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d w h e n I s t a t e that?
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) It speaks for the

victim.

I

.

0

._ .+

Q.

If I were to state, could you explain

what you think that type of evidence may b e or what considerations the jury w,ould take into effect as to the impact of the murder on the

family o f the victim?
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) I think in every case,
I mean, it would affect family

it impacts.

members, all family members the same.

'I d o n ' t

think there i s any light' - - I don't think it

x o u l d be taken lightly.
Q.
Sure. Absolutely. Would you agree

with me if I say, you know, you can put family members on t o discuss the ripple effect, as we like to call it, that this murder might cause?
A.
( B y Ms.

Dixon)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

Q.

As I have indicated, a l l life i s

precious, don't get me wrong, but, you know, some individuals may have a bigger ripple effect as far as their death than others. Now, I would be comfortable to argue n o matter what, even if the individual who had n o family members that was killed, his life i s precious, but as to that argument as to the rippling effect, do you see what I'm saying there? A. Q. (By M s . Dixon) ( N o response.) Are as far as he left brothers and

sisters behind, children behind, what i s the effect on them, it could be a big ripple effect. that? A. (By Ms. Dixon) Agree. Okay. And how d o you feel about Would you agree or disagree with

Q.

,

--

that, Ms. Hicks? A. ( B y M s . Hicks) Yes. Mr. Thomas, d o y o u s e e h o w t h a t w o r k s

Q.
~

in the p e n a l t y phase?
A.
( B y M r . T h o m a s ) C e r t a i n l y , yes..

5

6
I

Q.
\

W h e n w e ' r e in the p e n a l t y p h a s e , the

I

7

j u r y h a s t o l o o k a t the m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e in r e f e r e n c e t o w h e t h e r a d e a t h p e n a l t y i s imposed. When we t a l k a b o u t a n

8

9
10

aggravating circumstance, there are several, b u t i n t h i s c a s e , we o n l y n e e d t o p r o v e o n e f o r the jury t o return a verdict o f d e a t h . o t h e r words, i f the jury d e c i d e s t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y is t h e a p p r o p r i a t e punishment', t h e y c a n c o m e b a c k and state t h a t in i m p o s i n g t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , we f i n d the a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e t h a t the d e f e n d a n t t r i e d t o k i l l m o r e t h a n o n e victim, or t h e y c a n f i n d a l l
/

11

12 13
14

In

15

16 17

18
19

t h r e e o f the aggravating c i r c u m s t a n c e s .

Does

20
21

everyone understand how that would work in r e f e r e n c e t o 1 o o k i n g . a t the S t a t e ' s a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e in o r d e r f o r t h e jury t o d e t e r m i n e d o we i m p o s e t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y h e r e a n d t h a t ' s the a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e t h a t we f i n d ? row?
A.
A.

22
23

24 25 26 27
28

Any q u e s t i o n s on t h i s f i r s t

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( N o response.)

29

A.
A.

30
31

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No r e s p o n s e . )

A. A.

32

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.)

Q.

No o n e i s i n d i c a t i n g . H o w a b o u t on the s e c o n d r o w ?

A.
4

( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)
(By Mr. Walters)

A.

(No response.)

5

A. A.

( B y Ms. Snelling)

(No response.)

6 7
8

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No response.) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) N o one i s indicating.

A.

Q.

9
10
11
12
13
14

Mr. Thomas.
A.
(By M r . T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) N o w , mitigating f a c t o r s , a n d t h i s i s

Q.

where i t c o m e s c r u n c h t i m e a s f a r a s j u r o r s w h o c a n k e e p an o p e n m i n d a s t o a l l t h e evidence.
The l a w requires that a
juror

in

15

t h e p e n a l t y phase c o n s i d e r t h e m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , b u t then the j u r o r d e c i d e s t h e p r o p e r weight to give to those mitigating factors. A n d t h e n the j u r o r d e c i d e s the p e n a l t y b a s e d

16
17

18

19
20

on a l l t h e e v i d e n c e .
Now, with t h i s , Ms. D i x o n , wou,ld you a g r e e w i t h m e t h a t t h i s i s a g e n e r a l r u l e of l a w f o r a l l c a s e s in L o u i s i a n a ?
A.

21
22 23 24

(By M s . Dixon) Y e s . In o t h e r words, they d o n ' t g i v e

Q.

25

fact.ors, l i k e i n t h i s c a s e , y o u c a n o n l y consider this mitigating factor. general rule for all cases. that works?
A.

26
27 28

This is a

Do you see how

29
30
31

( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)
Am I confusing you?

Q.
A.

(By M s . Dixon). Yes. Okay. T h e s e r u l e s t h a t t h e y s e t u p a s
125

32

Q.

588k

'.

v

0

far as the mitigating factors that the jury can consider, there's probably a prosecutor in B a t o n R o u g e right n o w t e l l i n g t h e s a m e t h i n g

I'm telling to a j u r y down t h e r e i n r e f e r e n c e
t o w h a t t h e y c o n s i d e r , what f a c t o r s t h e y ' v e
got to consider. These are catchall rules for a n y t y p e o f c a s e b e c a u s e the l a w c a n ' t e n v i s i o n , well, I d o n ' t k n o w what m u r d e r t h e y

are g o i n g t o b e d e a l i n g with. Do y o u a g r e e
10

with m e t h a t a l l c a s e s a r e d i f f e r e n t ?

11
12 13
14

A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes. Mr. T h o m a s , the f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e

Q.

t h a t a p r o s e c u t o r may p r e s e n t in B a t o n R o u g e
may

b e d i f f e r e n t f r o m what I'm p r e s e n t i n g

15

here. A.
Q.

16 17 18

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Sure. O k a y . M s . Hicks, the m i t i g a t i n g

f a c t o r s t h a t may b e p r e s e n t e d by t h e d e f e n s e l a w y e r in Baton Rouge may b e d i f f e r e n t f r o m w h a t we s e e here, so we h a v e t h e s e g e n e r a l r u l e s . D o y o u s e e how t h a t works?

19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28

A.
Q.

(By M s . H i c k s ) Yes. Now, w h e n we t a l k a b o u t m i t i g a t i n g

f a c t o r s , I ' m g o i n g to p u t an i n c l u s i v e l i s t here. A t t h e e n d o f this l i s t , t h o u g h ,

t h e r e ' s g o i n g t o b e a c a t c h a l l p h r a s e of " a n y a n d a l l r e l e v a n t mitigating e v i d e n c e " t h a t c a n b e d e t e r m i n e d by t h e j u r y . When we t a l k a b o u t mitigating f a c t o r s , I ' m going t o r u n t h r o u g h t h e s e h e r e . T h e d e f e n d e r h a s n o s i g n i f i c a n t p r i o r history of criminal activity.

29 30
31

32

1

A n d this i s a n easy o n e , Mr. O l a g u e , i n a n u t s h e l l , a s far a s the m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r , i f the d e f e n d a n t c o m e s in a n d h e w a s e i g h t e e n a t the t i m e o f the o f f e n s e a n d n e v e r

2

i

3
4

5
6
7

c o m m i t t e d a crime, d o y o u s e e how t h a t m i g h t
be a mitigating factor?

A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. Now, M r . Walker, h e r e ' s t h e c a t c h o n

8
9

Q.

t h i s , d o e s mitigation m e a n s an e x c u s e ?

10
11

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I d o n ' t know. Mr. Jefferson. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) No. No.

I

Q.
A.

12
13

Q.

A s far a s m i t i g a t i o n , t h a t

14
15

I

d o e s n ' t mean i t ' s an e x c u s e t h a t , y o u k n o w , I
shouldn't be guilty of t h i s c r i m e .
When
I
say

16
17

i t ' s a m i t i g a t i n g factor, Mr. T h o m a s , w h a t d o e s t h a t mean t o y o u ?
A.

18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

(By Mr. Thomas) (No response.) Mitigation. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I ' m n o t s u r e , b u t I

Q.
A.

w o u l d b e thinking t h a t it i s t h e s e v e r i t y o f the punishment.

Q.

Right. If I was to have a thermometer

h e r e , y o u h a v e an a g g r a v a t i o n t h a t m a y b e r i s e s the thermometer - A.

26

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) R i g h t .
- - and a mitigation

27 28 29
30

Q.

factor might

lower it down.

It doesn't excuse the crime,

but i t might i n c r e a s e i t , or i t m i g h t d e c r e a s e i t , d e p e n d i n g on h o w much w e i g h t t h e gives.

31 32

Do you a g r e e with t h a t , M s . T h o r n t o n ?
127

Q.

W e l l , as I keep going o n , t h e o f f e n s e

was c o m m i t t e d w h i l e the o f f e n d e r ' w a s u n d e r t h e
influence of'extreme mental
or

emotional

disturbance. T h e o f f e n s e was c o m m i t t e d w h i l e t h e o f f e n d e r w a s under the i n f l u e n c e o r u n d e r the d o m i n a t i o n o f another person. W h a t d o e s t h a t mean to y o u ,
9

Mr.

Walker?

10

A.

(By M r . W a l k e r )

(No response.)

11

Q.

The offender - - the o f f e n s e w a s

12

c o m m i t t e d while the o f f e n d e r w a s u n d e r t h e

13
14
15
16
17

i n f l u e n c e or under the domination of a n o t h e r
person.
A.

I

(By M r . W a l k e r ) T h e c i r c u m s t a n c e t h a t

could have been out of his control.

Q.

Sure.

Did you e v e r h e a r a b o u t t h e D C

18 19
20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31

sniper case?

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. Are y o u familiar w i t h t h a t c a s e ,

I

Q.

Mr. Jefferson?
A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. W h o w a s the r i n g l e a d e r in t h a t c a s e ? ( B y M r . Jefferson) T h e a d u l t b e c a u s e

Q.
A.

t h e c h i l d d i d n ' t really k n o w what. w a s g o i n g

o f f e n d e r c o m e s t o court, i s h e u n d e r t h e d o m i n a t i o n o f the father?

I

A.

(By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.
D o you s e e h o w t h a t c o u l d b e a

Q.

32

m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r in h i s s e n t e n c i n g h e r e ?

-.

.-.

1

A.

(By Mr. Jefferson)

Yes.

2 ' 3
4

Q.

T h e o f f e n s e was c o m m i t t e d under

circumstances which the offender reasonably b e l i e v e d t o p r o v i d e a moral j u s t i f i c a t i o n or e x t e n u a t i o n for h i s c o n d u c t . m e a n t o y o u , Mr. Walters. What does that

5
6

7
8 9

A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) T h a t s o m e h o w h e

b e l i e v e d t h a t - - o r h e or s h e - - by t a k i n g o r c o m m i t t i n g a m u r d e r t h a t i t was d o n e f o r th,e

10
11
12
13

betterment of him or his society.
Q.
S u r e . D i d a n y o n e e v e r see that movie

the " S e v e n t h S e a l " o r " S e v e n t h S i g n " b a c k in the
OS?

14
15

A.
A.

(By M r . Natale) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By M s .

Thornton)

( N o

response.)

16 17

A.
A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

(By Mr. Olague) ( B y Mr. Walker)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

18

A.

( N o response..)

19
20 21 22 23

A.

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.) ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. Walters)
( N o response.)

A.
A.

A. A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No response.) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
No o n e i s f a m i l i a r w i t h t h a t m o v i e ?

24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

A.
A.

Q.

Wow. I c a n ' t b e l i e v e that. O k a y . In t h a t m o v i e , t h e r e w a s a m a n who killed his parents because he believed it was b a s e d o n the w o r d of G o d . In h i s m i n d , h e

h a d a m o r a l justification f o r t h a t . Ms. T h o r n t o n , in t h a t s c e n a r i o , w o u l d
129

1
2 3

~

he still have committed a crime?

A.

(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Um- hum. Yes. But in t h a t s e n s e t o w h e r e t h e

Q.

4
5

jury f o u n d t h a t t h i s w a s an e i g h t e e n - y e a r - o l d ,
i m p r e s s i o n a b l e man who d i d n ' t k n o w o r h e d i d n ' t h a v e the mental f a c u l t i e s t o u n d e r s t a n d o r a p p r e c i a t e h i s crime. A n d in t h a t s e n s e , h e b e l i e v e d t h a t h e was m o r a l l y j u s t i f i e d in

6

7

8

'9
10

killing h i s parents. Could that be a
mitigating factor that the jury could consider? A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.) N O W , a t t h e e n d o f the d a y , t h e y may t h a t any w e i g h t , b u t t h e y m u s t
D o you see h o w t h a t w o r k s ?

11
12
13
14
15

Q.
not
give

consider it. A.
Q.

16 17

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

O k a y . I'm c o n t i n u i n g w i t h t h e And, ladies and

18
19

m i t i g a t i n g fact0r.s.

g e n t l e m e n , b e a r with me.

I know t h i s , p a r t can

20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28

be tedious, but this is the most important p a r t in r e f e r e n c e to a j u r o r b e i n g f a i r a n d o p e n - m i n d e d as t o both p e n a l t i e s in t h e penalty phase. A t the time o f t h e o f f e n s e , t h e c a p a c i t y o f the o f f e n d e r t o a p p r e c i a t e t h e criminality of his conduct or to conform his c o n d u c t t o t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s of l a w w a s i m p a i r e d a s a result o f m e n t a l d i s e a s e o r d e f e c t or intoxication.
Ms. Clay, what d o e s t h a t m e a n t o y o u ?
A.

29 30
31

( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h a t t h e r e w a s

32

s o m e t h i n g w r o n g with them m e n t a l l y a n d t h e y

1
I

w e r e d r u g g e d a n d they went t o d o s o m e t h i n g t h a t t h e y d i d n ' t k n o w wasn't right.

2
3

Q.

O k a y . Now, k e e p in m i n d w h e n w e t a l k

4
5

about mental disease or defect, we're not t a l k i n g a b o u t insanity o r t h e l e g a l requirement of insanity.

6
7

If s o m e o n e i s

insane, they would be found not guilty. We're p a s t t h a t point. N o w , a mental d i s e a s e c o u l d b e
alcoholism.
It
could be

8

9
10

a personality

11

disorder, bi-polar, something to that effect. A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah. I n t o x i c a t i o n , Mr. J e f f e r s o n , c o u l d

12
13
14
15

Q.

that be a situation w h e r e someone t a k e s his
medicines and he's intoxicated.
A.

16

( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yes. And then h e c o m m i t s a c r i m e . ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. To that extent, would that be a

17
18

Q.
A.

19
20

Q.

m i t i g a t i n g factor t h a t t h e j u r y c o u l d consider?
A.

21

22
23 24 25 26 27 28
29

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o . Why n o t ? (By Mr. Jefferson) You're saying if

Q.
A.

h e h a d d r u g s and h e s h o u l d n ' t b e o n t h e d r u g s in the first place, then I don't think that should be considered if it's not - - that really doesn't have anything to do with that c a s e , b e c a u s e . . . hum. hard. That's hard. That's

30 31 32

Q.

O k a y . T h i s i s why I d o t h i s n o w . N o w ,

I

k e e p in mind, I k n o w s o m e j u r o r s c a n s o m e t i m e s
131

5847

1

h a v e a k n e e - j e r k r e a c t i o n , well, y o u k n o w , if you're drunk, I don't care about that, I'm not g o i n g t o e x c u s e you f o r the c r i m e . n o t what w e ' r e s a y i n g h e r e . And that's

2

A.
6

( B y Mr. Jefferson) O k a y .
D o you s e e h o w - - you d o n ' t k n o w what

Q.

7

t h e e v i d e n c e is g o i n g t o present. A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) E x a c t l y .

8
9

Q.

Do y o u s e e w h e r e y o u w o u l d s t i l l h a v e
A t the e n d o f t h e

10
11

t o c o n s i d e r the f a c t o r ?

d a y , a f t e r y o u h e a r a l l the e v i d e n c e , y o u may

12

say, well, I don't give that a whole lot of weight.

13
14
15

Or i f you hear a s c e n a r i o w h e r e ,

okay, I'm going to give that a lot of weight
because

he mixed his

medicines together and

16
17

didn't realize that that would make him i n t o x i c a t e d o r i m p a i r e d , d o you s e e h o w t h e r e could be a difference?
A.

18
19 20 21 22 23
24

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.
Do you s e e where t'he j u r o r s s h o u l d n ' t

Q.

e x c l u d e t h e mitigating f a c t o r s b e f o r e t h e y hear the evidence?
A.

( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. Okay. The youth of the offender at That speaks for

Q.

25
26 27

t h e t i m e of the offense. itself.

B u t t o t h a t e x t e n t , M r . T h o m a s , what d o you t h i n k o f ?
A.

20 29

(By Mr. Thomas) They're just a child. Whether they're a young man or - ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) O r s o m e b o d y w h o may

30
31
32

Q.
A.

n o t u n d e r s t a n d the severity o f t h e i r a c t i o n s .
132

5848

A.

( B y Ms. Thornton) Yes. O k a y . The o f f e n d e r was a p r i n c i p a l

Q.

w h o s e p a r t i c i p a t i o n was r e l a t i v e l y m i n o r .

Ms. Hicks, what d o e s t h a t m e a n t o
you?
A. ( B y M s . Hicks) I d o n ' t u n d e r s t a n d .

Q.
A.

Do you k n o w what a p r i n c i p a l i s ?
(By Ms'. H i c k s ) No.

Q.

O k a y . A principal is someone w h o i s
They

c o n c e r n e d in the c o m m i s s i o n o f a c r i m e . may n o t a c t u a l l y b e the t r i g g e r m a n .

So i n

o t h e r words, if m y b u d d y and I d e c i d e to go r o b t h e b a n k , and I s a y o k a y , y o u ' r e g o i n g t o s p l i t t h e p r o c e e d s with m e , but I ' m going t o
b e t h e getaway d r i v e r , a n d I ' m g o i n g to l o o k

o u t for y o u , you g o in t h a t b a n k , a n d y o u better kill that teller while you're at it. So h e g o e s in the b a n k a n d k i l l s t h e t e l l e r a n d c o m e s o u t a n d s p l i t s the m o n e y w i t h m e a n d we l e a v e ; am I g u i l t y o f m u r d e r ? A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) I w o u l d s a y so. Absolutely. Am I the t r i g g e r m a n in

Q.

that case? A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) No.
No.

Q.
guilty? A.

But, Ms. C l a y , a m I s t i l l

( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.
As a p r i n c i p a l ?

Q.
A.

( B y M s . C l a y ) ( J u r o r n o d s head.) Am I c o n c e r n e d in t h e c o m m i s s i o n of

Q.

that crime? A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

1
2

Q.

So d o you see how that w o u l d work as

f a r a s p r i n c i p a l s versus the o f f e n d e r w h o d o e s the shooting? Now, in t h a t s i t u a t i o n , i f I

3
4 5

came into court, I have no criminal record and I ' m t h e getaway d r i v e r , i s t h a t a f a c t o r t h a t

6
7
8

the jury maybe c o u l d l o o k at to s a y , well, he
wasn't the s h o o t e r , he was the g e t a w a y driver,

so y o u k n o w , t h a t m i g h t m i t i g a t e i n h i s f a v o r . A.
( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. B u t at the e n d o f t h e d a y , y o u may
he was

9

10
11 say,

Q.

well,

going t o s p l i t t h e p r o c e e d s ,

12

I ' m n o t g i v i n g t h a t any w e i g h t .

Do y o u s e e

13
14
15

h o w t h a t c a n work though in a p e n a l t y p h a s e ?
.

A.

(By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

Q.

O k a y . Finally, here's the catchall,

16
17
18

any other relevant mitigating circumstances. N o w , M r . Natale, why d o y o u t h i n k t h e l a w p u t t h a t c a t c h a l l p h r a s e in t h e r e ?

19
20
21

A.

(By Mr. Natale) I don't know. M s . T h o r n t o n , why d o y o u t h i n k t h e

Q.

l a w p u t t h a t l a s t phrase in t h e r e ?
A.

22

(By M , s .

Thornton) (No response.)

23 24 25
26 27 28

Q.

C o u l d there b e s o m e c i r c u m s t a n c e s o u t

t h e r e t h a t they h a v e n ' t e n v i s i o n e d ?

A.
be.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes, t h e r e c o u l d

Q.

I m e a n , there c o u l d b e s o m e t h i n g i n

the c a s e t h a t h e ' s n o t a r g u e d t o t h e j u r y , b u t t h e law s a y s , hey, I c a u g h t t h i s in t h e c a s e and I think that's a mitigating factor, do you s e e h o w t h a t w o u l d work?
A.

29 30 31

32

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

: D
1
2
~ ~

F

Q.
A.

Mr. Natale, does that - (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Y e s , b a s e d s o l e l y o n
J

ffl

69
( I @
I

.m

3

t h e o p i n i o n o f the juror.

4

Q.

So the j u r o r c o u l d s a y , w e l l , y o u

r3

43
Llhl

know, I c a u g h t t h i s .

It wasn't a r g u e d by

e i t h e r o f t h e p a r t i e s , but I s a w t h i s in the c a s e , a n d t h a t ' s what I'm g o i n g t o b a s e m y d e c i s i o n o n . O r , I g i v e t h a t , you k n o w , a l o t o f w e i g h t a s a m i t i g a t i n g factor.

h) c3 6 3
CICh

I

So i t ' s a
~

10
11 12

catchall phrase.

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right. Mr. T h o m a s , c o u l d t h e d e f e n s e l a w y e r

~

Q.

13
14
15

c o m e t o the jury a n d n o t p r e s e n t a n y m i t i g a t i n g factors a n d b a s i c a l l y j u s t a s k t h e
j u r y

for mercy?

16 17 18

A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. Yes, they c a n . Yes. They don't have
~

Q.

t o p r e s e n t any mitigating f a c t o r s .

They could
I

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31

s t r i c t l y c o m e t o the jury a n d a s k f o r m e r c y .
Do you s e e h o w t h a t would work?
A.

( B y M r . Thomas) Yes. W o u l d t h a t fall under any o t h e r

Q.

r e l e v a n t m i t i g a t i n g circumstance?
A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.
M r . N a t a l e , I'm g o i n g t o s t a r t w i t h

Q.

you n o w , n o w t h a t I h a v e got the s e t u p f o r t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e a n d what the j u r o r s t h a t s e r v e o n t h e s e c a s e s must d o in o r d e r t o q u a l i f y in c e r t a i n of t h e s e cases. In r e f e r e n c e t o mitigating factors, are there any factors up t h e r e t h a t you w o u l d j u s t a u t o m a t i c a l l y exclude and not even consider?
d

32

136

A.

(By M r .

Natale) T h e youth of

the

2

offender.

3
4

Q,
the

Okay.

When I s t a t e - - w h e n y o u s t a t e the offender," w o u l d y o u be a b l e

"youth of

5
6

t o consider t h a t i n the penalty phase before
you
hear
the

evidence,

or

w o u l d

you

j u s t

7 8

automatically exclude it and write it o f f ?
A.

(By M r .

Natale) Before h e a r i n g t h e

9

evidence?

10
11

Q.
A.

Yes.
(By M r .
N a t a l e )
I

would

have

to hear

12

the evidence first, t h e age of

b u t j u s t based s o l e l y on no,
I wouldn't.

13

the offender,

It's

14
15 16

based on law, i f t h e y ' r e s e v e n t e e n o r a b o v e .
Q.
A.
Okay.

(By M r .

Natale)

O r

i f

you a r e t r i e d

17 18
19

as an a d u l t ,

it a p p l i e s t o youth.

Q.

Now,

l e t m e see i f

I can c l a r i f y t h a t

as f a r as it applying t o youth.
end of weight.

Now,

at the of

20
21 22

t h e ' e v i d e n c e , , . y o u may g i v e i t a l o t

You may n o t g i v e i t a l o t w e i g h t .

You may h e a r t h e e v i d e n c e i n t h i s c a s e a n d

23
24 25

state,

well,

i t n o r m a l l y d o e s n ' t mean a l o t t o
the

m e as f a r a s t h e youth of
this

offender,
I

but in think,
Do

case,
I

I

think it's applicable.

26
27 28 29 30 3 1 32

you know,
feel t h a t

s h o u l d g i v e i t some w e i g h t .

you

you c o u l d k e e p a n o p e n mind g o i n g

i n t o the penalty phase as t o those f a c t o r s ?
A.

(By M r .

Natale)

Probably not.

Q.
A.

C o u l d y'ou t e l l m e w h y . <
(By M r .

Natale)

Just,

again,

I mean,

you know,

i f

you're

of

l e g a l age a n d you
137

5553

0
~

c o m m i t t h e c r i m e , I think t h a t i n i t s e l f i s - -

I m e a n , i t ' s hard t o e x p l a i n , b u t j u s t b e c a u s e

they're a certain age and they c o m m i t a c r i m e ,
4

I c o u l d u n d e r s t a n d i f they were, y o u k n o w , a
child or something along those lines and p o s s i b l y so, b u t n o t j u s t by g o i n g w i t h w h a t t h e s t a t e l a w s a y s , you k n o w , w h a t c o n s t i t u t e s s o m e b o d y as an adult, a n d t h i s p a r t i c u l a r l a w

5
6

7

8

9
10
11
12
13
14 15

would a p p l y , t o o . Q.
Okay.
So you w o u l d n ' t b e a b l e t o

c o n s i d e r t h a t factor a t a l l ? A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) No. Okay. Any o t h e r f a c t o r s t h a t y o u
be

Q.
wouldn't

able

to consider?

A.

( B y Mr. Natale) No.

J u s t t h a t one.

16 17

Q.

Do you f e e l t h a t you w o u l d n ' t b e a b l e

t o s e r v e o n this jury based on that? A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. Mr. T h o m a s , are t h e r e a n y f a c t o r s

18
19

Q.

20
21
22

t h a t you w o u l d j u s t a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e , o r w o u l d y o u a b l e to c o n s i d e r a l l the f a c t o r s a n d g i v e them t h e i r a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t ? A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s )
I think I would be

23 24
25 26 27

a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l the. f a c t o r s .

Q.

And do you feel that you would be a

j u r o r t h a t c o u l d g i v e it i t s a p p r o p r i a t e weight after you've consider whatever is presented to you?
A.

28 29 30 31 32

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes. A t the e n d of the d a y , e v e n i f y o u

Q.

have found someone guilty of first degree murder and the defense doesn't put any factors
138

5854

...-..

1
2

on, they just ask for mercy, d o you s t i l l feel you c o u l d b e a juror that would s e r i o u s l y consider b o t h penalty options before y o u make

3

4
5

a final 'decision?
A.
( B y Mr. Thomas) Yes.

6

Q.
A.

And d o you feel strongly t h a t ? (By Mr. Thomas) Yes.

7
8

Q.

Ms. Thornton, are there a n y factors

9
10

that you would automatically exclude, or would
you be a b l e to consider all the factors a n d give them their appropriate weight? A. (By Ms. Thornton) I feel l i k e I c o u l d

11
12

13
14

consider all o f them.

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Ms. Thornton) And t h e n d e c i d e . Decide their appropriate w e i g h t ? (By Ms. Thornton) Um-hum. And even if the d e f e n s e . d o e s n ' t

15
16 17

Q.
A.

18
19 20

Q.

p r e s e n t any mitigating factors, they just simply a s k f o r mercy, would you s t i l l b e a juror t h a t ' c o u l d consider and i m p o s e b o t h sentences at the end of the e v i d e n c e ? A. (By M s . Thornton)
(No response.)

21
22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29

Q.
A. could.

The death penalty o r a l i f e s e n t e n c e ? (By Ms. Thornton) I feel l i k e I

Q.
that? A.

Okay.

D o y o u feel strongly a b o u t

(By M s . Thornton) Yes. And you understand what I'm s a y i n g ,

30
31 32

Q.

that even though the jury has f o u n d t h e defendant guilty o f an intentional h o m i c i d e ,
139

..-

,

1
2
I

if the defense elects not to put any factors on, and they state, you know, we simply ask for mercy, would you still be able to keep an open mind as to both penalties before rendering a decision?
A.
(By Ms.

3
4

5
6
7

Thornton) I feel I c o u l d .

Q.
A.

Do you feel strongly about that?
(By Ms. Thornton) Yes. Ms. Edwards, once again, I'm not

8

9

Q.

10
11
12
13

disrespectful.

I t h i n k I know y o u r o p i n i o n s

on the death penalty. Mr. Olague, the same line of questioning. Are there any factors up there

14
15

that you would automatically exclude or would
you

be

able

to

consider

all

the

factors

and

16

give them their appropriate weight before you made a decision?
A.

17

18
19

(By Mr. Olague) I would consider all

factors.

20
21 22
23

Q.

And in considering all the factors

and giving them their appropriate weight, even if the jury finds the defendant guilty of an intentional murder, and the defense c o m e s and offers n o factors, which they d o n ' t have t o if they d o n ' t want to, and they simply come for a plea of mercy, do you still feel like you could b e a juror that would keep b o t h options, serious options, in consideration before you made a decision?

24
25 26

27
28
29

30
31

A.

(By Mr. Olague) No. Could you tell me why. (By Mr. Olague) Because the youth, if

Q.
A.

32

e v i d e n c e h a s been p r e s e n t e d and i t ' s p r o v e n
t h a t h e committed t h e crime, c o n v i c t e d him, penalty. then and t h e j u r y has the death

I would want

Q.
6

Mr.

Walker,

are t h e r e any f a c t o r s

that

you would a u t o m a t i c a l l y exclude? A. (By M r . Walker)

7

I would have t o h e a r

8

all the factors.

9

Q,

Okay.

Would you be a b l e t o g i v e t h e m

10
11 12

a l l t h e i r appropriate weight t h a t you t h i n k
they deserve?
A.

(By M r .

Walker)

I would give them a l l
I couldn't

13

the appropriate weight.

make a

14
15
16
17

decision without that.
Q.
A.

Sure. (By M r . Walker) You're talking about

t h e mercy part.

18
19

Q.
part?
A.

Would you

s t i l l be a b l e t o h e a r t h a t

20

(By M r . but

Walker)

I

could consider
facts,
I

21 22 23 24 25
26

mercy,

still without

the

can't

make a d e f i n i t e d e c i s i o n .

Q.
A.

Right.
(By M r .

Walker)

You c a n g i v e s o m e b o d y g o t t o know e v e r y t h i n g

mercy,
that

but

still you've

has been

done. Now, t o that extent,
i f

27

Q.

Okay.

the

28

defense o f f e r s no would you

f a c t o r s b u t a plea of mercy, that could consider

29
30

s t i l l be a j u r o r

a l l t h e evidence and everything t h a t they
a r g u e d b e f o r e you make y o u r d e c i s i o n ?

31
32

A,.

(By M r .

Walker) Without

the evidence,

142

585A

1

I c o u l d n ' t m a k e a decision.

2

Q.

So you f e e l t h a t b o t h p e n a l t y o p t i o n s

3

would still be available?

4
5

A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.
Ms. C l a y , the s a m e q u e s t i o n , w o u l d

Q*

6

y o u a u t o m a t i c a l l y exclude any m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , or would you be a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l the factors?

7

8
9
10

A.

(By Ms. C l a y ) I w o u l d b e a b l e t o

I

c o n s i d e r a l l o f them.

11

Q.

W o u l d you b e a b l e t o g i v e t h e m t h e i r

12

a p p r o p r i a t e weight b e f o r e you m a d e a d e c i s i o n ?

13

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

14
15

Q.

N O W , e v e n if the j u r y h a s f o u n d t h e

16
17

I

d e f e n d a n t g u i l t y o f an i n t e n t i o n a l m u r d e r ,

robbery, arson, kidnapping, attempting to kill more than one person, to that extent, the defense offers no mitigating factors other than a p l e a of mercy, w o u l d y o u s t i l l b e a b l e to consider and seriously impose either sentence?
A.

18

19
20 21 22 23 24
25

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

Q.
A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. Mr. Jefferson. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o n e t h a t I c a n

Q.
A.

26

27 28 29
30 31 32

II

see.
.

Q.
A.

N o n e that you c a n see? ( B y Mr. Jeffe'rson) R i g h t . As far as the i n t o x i c a t i o n p o r t i o n ,

I

Q.

d o you s t i l l f e e l that you c o u l d c o n s i d e r t h a t one?

A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. Would you be a b l e t o g i v e t h e

Q.

a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t to t h e s e f a c t o r s w h a t e v e r

you h e a r ?

A.

(By M r . Jefferson) Yes.
E v e n i f the jury f i n d s the d e f e n d a n t

Q.

g u i l t y o f an i n t e n t i o n a l ' h o m i c i d e w h e r e s o m e o n e w a s robbed, k i d n a p p e d , an a r s o n i s
9

committed, o r

they a t t e m p t t o k i l l m o r e t h a n

10

o n e p e r s o n a n d the jury h a s f o u n d h i m g u i l t y of t h a t c r i m e , the d e f e n s e o f f e r s n o f a c t o r s o t h e r t h a n a plea o f mercy, w o u l d you s t i l l b e

11

12

13
14
15

able to c o n s i d e r a n d seriously impose a life
sentence?
A.
(By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Y e s .

16
17

Q.
A.

As to b o t h p e n a l t i e s ?
( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. And you f e e l s u r e a b o u t t h i s ? (By Mr. Jefferson) Y e s . Ms. Snelling. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I c o u l d c o n s i d e r

18
19

Q.
A.

20
2 1

Q.
A.

22
23 24
25

the m i t i g a t i n g factors.

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Ms. Snelling) But as far as the

m e r c y , t h e victim wasn't given m e r c y , I w o u l d h a v e a h a r d t i m e with that.

26
27

Q.

There is nothing wrong with having a

28
29

h a r d t i m e with that. I mean, I u n d e r s t a n d - A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) I may n o t b e a b l e

30

t o c o n s i d e r it. I mean, y o u ' r e t a l k i n g about - -

31
32

Q.

I a m n o t a s k i n g you t o c o m m i t t o

C n

t h a t , b u t d o you s e e what I a m a s k i n g a s f a r a s w h e t h e r or n o t you c o u l d k e e p a n o p e n m i n d t o e v e r y t h i n g you h e a r , e v e n i f i t ' s a p l e a o f m e r c y b e f o r e you make y o u r d e c i s i o n .
I

5

A.

( B y Ms.

Snelling) Y e s .

6
~ ~

Q.

O k a y . D o you feel t h a t you c o u l d b e a

7
8
9
10

j u r o r t h a t c o u l d k e e p b o t h p e n a l t y o p t i o n s in m i n d u n t i l t h e e n d o f all the e v i d e n c e i s presented?
A.
( B y Ms. Snelling) Yes.

~

11
12

Q.
A.

Mr. Walters. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) By t h e p a r a m e t e r you

~

13

h a v e s t a t e d , I h a v e a problem w i t h t h e y o u t h

14
15
16
17

of the offender.
fifty.

You s t a t e d e i g h t e e n t o

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) In m y r e a l m o f

18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28

r e a l i t y , an eighteen- year- old k n o w s r i g h t a n d wrong, life and death. NOW, had you said

e i g h t y e a r s old to fifty - -

Q.
A.

Right. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) - - I w o u l d c o n s i d e r

t h a t a s a m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e , b u t an adult who knows the difference of right and wrong, between life and death, that's a mitigating circumstance that I can't consider.

Q.

Okay. Now, keep.this in mind. I'm

s t a t i n g , you k n o w , excuse h i m f o r t h e c r i m e b a s e d o n t h e fact t h a t they a r e y o u n g .
As far

29

30
31

as t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s o f a c a s e , a n d w e a r e t a l k i n g in g e n e r a l terms, you d o n ' t k n o w what the circumstances are going to be; would be

32

_-

1
2

t h a t be a f a i r a s s e s s m e n t ?

A.

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

3

Q.

S o in o t h e r w o r d s , y o u m i g h t h a v e a n

4
5

eighteen-year-old who was locked in a b o x
e v e r y d a y of h i s l i f e a n d b e a t e n b y h i s f a t h e r

and t h e n on h i s e i g h t e e n t h birthday, his
f a t h e r is l i k e , y o u ' r e a m a n n o w , c o m e w i t h m e

and w e ' r e g o i n g t o r o b a l i q u o r s t o r e . He's

the getaway driver. The father shoots and
10 kills someone and then the son i s in the p e n a l t y phase w i t h h i s f a t h e r . Do you s e e t h a t situation?

11
12

13
14
15

A.

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Y e s . Now, I

understand. With those t y p e of p a r a m e t e r s ,
yes, but that would have to be a circumstance that I would consider.
.

16
17

Q.

Do you see at that point where the

18
19 20 21
22

jury would have t o consider that age, perhaps?
A.

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. Now, at the end of the d a y , you

Q.

might, as a juror say, well, even with those
\

circumstances, even though he's a young man, I don't give it a lot of weight or I give i t a lot of weight. That's a decision a juror must m a k e . Do y o u s e e h o w t h a t w o r k s ?

23 24 25 26
27

A.
mind.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y o u h a v e o p e n e d my

28 29 30
31
'

Q.

Okay.

G o o d , g o o d . To t h a t e x t e n t ,

would you able to consider any and all mitigating factors as a juror in this case and assigning them their appropriate weight?
A.

32

(By Mr. Walters) I could consider all

1
2

t h o s e c i r c u m s t a n c e s , yes.

Q.

Now, t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d y o u b e

3
4

a b l e t o a l s o weigh a n d g i v e t h e m t h e a p p r o p r i a t e weight t h a t y o u t h i n k t h e y deserve ?

ca

h)

I

5
6
7

A.

(By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.
To t h a t e x t e n t , a s I h a v e i n d i c a t e d

Q.

8
9

t o y o u r f e l l o w jurors, e v e n i f t h e j u r y c o n v i c t s t h e d e f e n d a n t o f an i n t e n t i o n a l h o m i c i d e where h e c o m m i t t e d a r o b b e r y , a r s o n ,
kidnapping, attempted to kill more than one

10
11

12

p e r s o n , the d e f e n s e d o e s n ' t o f f e r a n y m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s o t h e r than a p l e a o f m e r c y which f a l l s under t h a t l a s t p o r t i o n , w o u l d y o u s t i l l b e a b l e t o keep both p e n a l t y o p t i o n s on

13

14

15

16
17

t h e t a b l e t i l l you h e a r d a l l t h e e v i d e n c e and
a r g u m e n t s b e f o r e you make y o u r f i n a l d e c i s i o n ?
A.

18

(By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes, I c o u l d . W o u l d you, a s a p o t e n t i a l j u r o r , b e

19
20
21 22 23 24 25

Q.

a b l e t o i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e e v e n i n t h a t situation?
A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes. D o you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? (By M r . Walters) Yes. O k a y . T h a n k you, M r . W a l t e r s . Ms. D i x o n , i s there any m i t i g a t i n g

Q.
A.

Q.

26 27
28 29 30 31 32

f a c t o r s t h a t you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e ?
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) N o . W o u l d you b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

Q.

m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s a n d weigh them appropriately?
A.

( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.
147

5863

c . -

,

.-

. j

' . i

Q.

Now, t o t h a t e x t e n t , t h e j u r y f i n d s

the defendant guilty of an intentional homicide committed during a robbery, arson, or

kidnapping, t o t h a t e x t e n t and t h e d e f e n s e
o f f e r s n o mitigating f a c t o r s , o n l y a p l e a of
6 7 8

mercy, would you be able to still seriously consider and impose both sentences?

A.

( B y Ms. Dixon) Yes.

9
10
11
12 13
1 4

Q.
A.

Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
Ms.

Q.

Hicks, i s t h e r e a n y m i t i g a t i n g

f a c t o r s you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e ?

A.
Q.

(By Ms. Hicks) No.
To t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o

15

c o n s i d e r b o t h penalty o p t i o n s , n o m a t t e r what y o u h e a r in the penalty p h a s e ?
A.

16
17

( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes. E v e n i f the d e f e n s e o f f e r s no f a c t o r s

18

Q.

19

o t h e r t h a n a plea o f l i f e a n d t h e j u r y h a s c o n v i c t e d the d e f e n d a n t of an i n t e n t i o n a l homicide where he committed a robbery, k i d n a p p i n g , arson or a t t e m p t e d t o k i l l m o r e than one person.
A.

20
2 1

22
23

24 25
26
27

( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes. W o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r

Q.

and impose both options?
A.

( B y M s . ' H i c k s ) Yes.
Do you feel, s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

28

Q.
A.

29
30

( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes. M r . T h o m a s , s a m e question. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I think I a l r e a d y

Q.
A.

31 32

answered.

,. -,

1 2
3

I

Q.

You s u r e did.

Being over here with

y o u r o w n row, I a p o l o g i z e . Mr. N a t a l e , l e t me c o m e b a c k t o you b e f o r e I move o f f this s u b j e c t , a n d I h o p e m y
question didn't confuse

4
5

it.

The

way

I

6
7

e x p l a i n e d t o Mr. Walters, d o e s t h a t g i v e y o u a n y r o o m for r e c o n s i d e r a t i o n ?

a
9
10

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yeah, e s p e c i a l l y

this gentleman b a c k there when h e w a s i t a l k i n g
a b o u t a s e t a g e eighteen t o f i f t y ,
and t h e n

I

11
12
13

w h e n you b r i n g up the s c e n a r i o a b o u t b e i n g in

a b o x a n d b e a t e n by h i s f a t h e r , t h a t , y e a h , I
could consider that and look at those

14
15
16
17

circumstances, b u t if it was j u s t blatant, 'I
mean, depending upon the person's age, I guess, again, it would have a lot to do with w h a t the e v i d e n c e i s a n d w h a t ' s p r e s e n t e d . I m e a n , i f it was j u s t s o m e b o d y w h o j u s t , y o u k n o w , h a d , y o u k n o w , d i s r e g a r d for l i f e a n d i t is reinforced by evidence, no matter what t h e i r a g e , I wouldn't c o n s i d e r t h e i r a g e a s f a r a s t h e penalty p h a s e .

I

ia
19
20 21
22 23 24 25

Q.

Okay.

As f a r as g o i n g i n t o t h e

p e n a l t y p h a s e , a s I h a v e o u t l i n e d with M r . W a l t e r s , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r t h a t f a c t o r going i n t o i t ?
A.

26
27 28

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. Okay. And would you b e a b l e t o

Q.

29
30
31

c o n s i d e r t h a t factor a n d g i v e i t i t s appropriate weight?
A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. Y o u m i g h t n o t g i v e i t a l o t of
149

Q.

5365

1
2
3
4

weight.

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right. O r you might g i v e i t a l o t of w e i g h t . ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Right.

Q.
A.

Q.

Do you feel now t h a t you would b e

a b l e to d o t h a t ?

A.

(By Mr. Natale) Sure. T o that extent, w o u l d you s t i l l b e

a
9

Q.

able to consider and impose a life sentence

10
11

based on what you h e a r ?
A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

12
13

Q.
A.

Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

14
15
16
17

Q.

Okay.

Is t h e r e anyone e l s e t h a t h a s

any q u e s t i o n s about what I ' v e c o v e r e d in t h e m i t i g a t i n g p h a s e p o r t i o n of the p e n a l t y p h a s e ? O n t h i s f i r s t row?
A.

18

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

19
20

A. A. A.

(By Ms. Thornton) (No response.) (By M s . Edwards) (No response.)
,

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( N o response.)

22 23 24

A.
A.

( B y M s . Hicks') ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) O n this second r o w ? ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o response.) (By Mr. Walters) ( B y M s . Snelling)
( N o response.)

Q.
A.

26
27

A.
A.

(No response.)

28

A. A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) T h i s i s m y l a s t topic, l a d i e s and

29
30

A.

31
32

Q.

g e n t l e m e n . T o return a d e a t h s e n t e n c e , t h e

1
2 3

Q.
A.

Ms.

Edwards.
Edwards)

(By M s .
Mr.

Yes.

Q.
A.

Walker.

4
5
6
7

( B y Mr. W a l k e r )

(Juror nods head.)
Ladies

Q.

Everyone i s here.
I

and

gentlemen before

s i t down,

i s t h e r e anyone

t h a t has any questions about any t o p i c I covered i n t h i s voir dire?
I know

8

i t h a s been

9
10
11

a l o n g voir dire.
topics.

We h a v e covered a l o t o f

Is t h e r e anybody t h a t h a s any

q u e s t i o n s o n t h i s f i r s t row r e l a t e d t o a n y t o p i c s I've covered?

12

13
14
15 16

A.
A.

(By M r . N a t a l e )
(By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M r . (By M s .

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No

Thornton)
Edwards)

response.)

A. A.
A.

(No r e s p o n s e . )

Olague)
Walker)

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No response.)

17 18
19

A.

Hicks)

Q.
A.
A. A.

On t h e s e c o n d r o w ? (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M r .
MR.

Dixon)

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No

Walters)

Snelling) Jefferson) Clay)

response.)

23
24

A.
A.

(No r e s p o n s e . )

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No

25 26

A.

Thomas)
THOMPSON:

response.) t o say this
I

I do want

b e f o r e I s i t down,

ladies and gentlemen,

28 29 30 31 32

know t h i s c a n b e a l o n g p r o c e s s .

A n d I know i t

c a n be t e d i o u s a n d t h i s i s t h e p r o c e s s t h a t
the
TV

shows l e a v e o u t .

A

l o t of

times,

the

c l i e n t comes i n t o t h e o f f i c e ,

and t h e i r case

i s being presented t h a t afternoon and they can

1

get it done in an hour. And this i s the process they leave out, but keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, this is an important process. I do thank you for your honest
answers

2

3
4
5

in this process. This is an important And this is the reason why a l l the

6

case.

7

parties do this {process. So we appreciate your patience. Your Honor, at this time, I tender the
panel.

8

9
10

11

THE COURT:

A l l right. Please take the

12

jury into Courtroom H. (Whereupon the venire panel was excused from the courtroom. ) THE COURT:
2:30.

13
14
15

We will b e in recess until

16

17
18

(Whereupon court was recessed d u r i n g the noon hour. )

19
20 21

AFTERNOON SESSION
2 : 3 0 p.m.

22
23 24 25

WHEREUPON.

. .
the following proceedings were had:

(Whereupon the defendant was present with counsel. ) THE COURT: A r e ' y o u ready t o proceed? We are, Your Honor.

26
27 28

MR. THOMPSON:

29
30
31

Recalling the matter of State of Louisiana vs. Felton Dorsey, Docket No. 251,406, the defendant is present in court with counsel, M r . Alan Golden and
153

32

a

1
2

D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y ; Dhu T h o m p s o n a n d Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t with t h e d i s t r i c t attorney's office. We are outside the presence of the

3
4
5

jury, a n d we a r e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d w i t h v o i r
dire. MR. G O L D E N : Y o u r Honor. ( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was held. ) MR. GOLDEN: We w o u l d l i k e t o q u e s t i o n T h e d e f e n s e is r e a d y ,

6
7

8
9

10

11

outside the presence of the other members j u r o r n u m b e r ten, Ms. S n e l l i n g , a n d j u r o r

12

13
14
15 16
17

number f i v e , Mr. O l a g u e .
MR. THOMPSON:
Your Honor. THE COURT: That's correct,

A l l right.
W i t h the C o u r t ' s

MR. THOMPSON:

ia
19

p e r m i s s i o n , we w o u l d l i k e t o s t a r t w i t h Mr. Olague. ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom.) THE COURT: W e j u s t b r o u g h t y o u in t o

20

21
22

23 24 25
26 27

a s k y o u a few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e
of t h e o t h e r j u r o r s .

Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

MR. THOMPSON:

We are, Your Honor.

28
29

F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N BY MR. THOMPSON:

30

Q.

G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Mr. O l a g u e . You

31 3 2.

i n d i c a t e d in t h e regular r o u n d o f v o i r d i r e you m i g h t h a v e h a d s o m e p e r s o n a l i n f o r m a t i o n

a b o u t t h i s c a s e , a n d you might k n o w t h e f a m i l y o r t h e victim i n this c a s e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? A. (By Mr. Olague) I know the families

personally.

I am a retired f i r e f i g h t e r .

My

I

5

1

s o n i s a f i r e f i g h t e r , and h e h a d t h e o p p o r t u n i t y on s e v e r a l o c c a s i o n s t o w o r k with C a p t a i n P r o c k , so I d o k n o w t h r o u g h h i m a n d s e v e r a l othe-rs.

1

Q.
I
I

Okay. And what - ( B y Mr. Olague)

10

A.

I have

a

lot

of

11

information that was given to me about the incident.

12
13
14
15

Q.

What information have you learned

from these c o n t a c t s ?
A.
( B y M r . O l a g u e ) J u s t the m a n n e r

of

16

s o m e o f t h e things t h a t went on a t t h e s c e n e .

17
18

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Mr. Olague) I don't want to get

19
20

t o o d e e p i n t o it.

Q.
A.

I'm sorry? (By Mr. O l a g u e ) I d o n ' t w a n t t o g e t

21
22 23 24 25

t o o d e e p i n t o i t , s o m e of the t h i n g s t h a t o c c u r r e d a t the i n c i d e n t .

Q.

S o you k n o w s o m e p e r s o n a l i n f o r m a t i o n

a b o u t what o c c u r r e d at the s c e n e .

26
27 28 29

A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. And d i d y o u hear t h i s f r o m y o u r s o n ? ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. W a s this from t a l k s t h a t t h e y m i g h t

Q.
A.

Q.

30
31

have had - A.
( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I t w a s f r o m

32

individuals supposedly that made the engine
155

5871.

i

'-'

6 0

1

that day.

m
c3

%FT 3 2

P

2
3

Q.

Okay. Some firemen that might have

($21
1

I"'

been at the scene? A.
Q.

@\ i Cf"

4
5

( B y Mr. Olague) Yes.
Okay. Y o u r

N

c9
f i r e m a n

son

i s

a

as

w e l l ?

w 1'4
Q c 9
(3 1

6
7

A.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. A n d in what d i s t r i c t d o e s h e w o r k ? ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) He w o r k s f o r t h e

Q.
A.

8

9
10

City of Shreveport now, but prior to coming to
Shreveport,
he
w o r k e d w i t h

several

of

the

fire

11

districts, including fire district three.

12 13

Q.

Having that information, have you

formed any preconceived notions about the

14
15
16 17 18

defendant's guilt in this case?
A.
( B y M r . Olague) No.

Q.

Would that information and your son's

s i t u a t i o n a f f e c t you in any way f r o m s e r v i n g a s a f a i r a n d impartial j u r o r i n t h i s c a s e ? A. no. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I w o u l d l i k e t o t h i n k

19
20

I h a v e a l w a y s p r i d e d m y s e l f on t r y i n g t o

21
22
23

m a k e l o g i c a l d e c i s i o n s b a s e d o n facts. d o n ' t t h i n k i t would.

I

Q.

D o you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t , t h a t

24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

you c o u l d s e r v e in a f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l m a n n e r in t h i s c a s e ? A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.
I just wanted

t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n known. I want t o b e f a i r a n d g i v e you t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n .

Q.
honesty.

Absolutely.

And we a p p r e c i a t e y o u r

I s t h e r e anything e l s e a b o u t t h a t

c o n t a c t in t h a t situation t h a t w o u l d c a u s e y o u t r o u b l e in s e r v i n g a s a f a i r j u r o r i n t h i s
156

58""

?V.

1
2

~

case?
A.

(By M r .
Let me

Olague) No. a s k you t h i s ,
Mr.

3
4

Q.

Olague.

If

y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r

i n t h i s case,

5
6 7
8

what would you base y o u r d e c i s i o n o n o r y o u r
verdict on?
A.

. .

(By M r .

O l a g u e ) Based o n t h e e v i d e n c e

p r e s e n t e d a n d how i t r e l a t e d t o t h e s t a t u t e o f

9

f i r s t degree m u r d e r .

10
11

Q.

Would y o u l e t a n y of that contact

i n f o r m a t i o n you received from y o u r s o n a f f e c t your a b i l i t y i n your decision- making as a j u r o r i n t h i s . case?

12

13

14
15 16
17 18

A.
Q.
that?
A.

(By Mr. Olague) No.
Do y o u f e e l s u r e a n d s t r o n g a b o u t

(By M r .

Olague) Y e s ,

sir.

Q.

T h e f i r e m e n - - a n d t h i s i s more o f but
I

a

19
20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30

question f o r t h e next round,

f e e l maybe

i t c o u l d be a n a p p r o p r i a t e s u b j e c t t o t o u c h o n

now.

W e d o have

firemen scheduled t o t e s t i f y i n that precinct or would

t h a t m i g h t have worked

district that

y o u r s o n was a s s i g n e d t o ,

y o u be a b l e t o e v a l u a t e t h o s e w i t n e s s e s a s y o u would any o t h e r w i t n e s s i f jury?
A.

you s t a y e d on t h i s

(By M r .

Olague)

I would

think so.

I t ' s more of

t h a n l i k e l y I m i g h t e v e n k n o w some

them m y s e l f .

Q.
later.

W e m i g h t have t o e x p l o r e t h a t

topic

31

In reference t o your son's s i t u a t i o n ,
the

i

32

w o u l d h i s k n o w l e d g e of

v i c t i m or his

~

c o n t a c t with t h e s e f i r e m e n , w o u l d t h a t a f f e c t y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g if y o u w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in t h i s case?

I

2
3

~4
5
I

A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) No.
MR. THOMPSON:

M r . Olague, t h e d e f e n s e
I appreciate

,

6

may h a v e s o m e q u e s t i o n s f o r y o u . your honesty.

7
8

9
10 11
12
13

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
B Y MR. G O L D E N :

Q.
A.

G o o d a f t e r n o o n , Mr. O l a g u e . ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Hello. We d o n ' t mean t o put y o u o n t h e s p o t ,

Q.

14
15

b u t we h a v e t o e x p l o r e c e r t a i n t h i n g s l i k e
t h a t b e c a u s e we think any t i m e an- i s s u e c o m e s up like pretrial publicity or anything else t h a t c o u l d a f f e c t your p a r t i a l i t y , we h a v e t o know about it. A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes, sir.

16
17

18
19

20 21
22 23 24 25

Q.

And you d i d the r i g h t t h i n g
No right or wrong answers,

d i s c l o s i n g it.

only honest ones. w o u l d a f f e c t you.

And we d o n ' t c a r e i f i t We don't care if it would

b o t h e r y o u . We j u s t need what e f f e c t i t w o u l d have.

26
27

A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) I u n d e r s t a n d .
You were a fireman h e r e in

Q.

28
29 30 31 32

Shreveport? A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) S h r e v e p o r t , y e s , s i r W h a t area d i d you work? ( B y M r . Olague)
I worked all over

Q.
A. the city.

. .-.

Q.
A.

Did y o u work with Mr. J o e P r o c k e v e r ?
( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) N o , n e v e r . I d o n o t

k n o w Mr. P r o c k .
4 5

Q.
A.

Y o u n e v e r m e t him?
( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No,

sir.

6
7
8

Q.
family?

Do y o u k n o w a n y m e m b e r s o f h i s

A.

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No. D i d y o u go t o h i s f u n e r a l ?
( B y Mr.

9
10

Q.
A.

O l a g u e ) Not to his

funeral,

11

b u t I w e n t t o h i s wake.

12

Q.

To t h e wake.

Okay. You did go t o the

13

wake. Now, your son is a fireman?

14
15
16

A.
Q.
A.

(By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.
Here in Shreveport? (By Mr. Olague) Yes. A n d d i d he k n o w M r . P r o c k ? (By Mr. Olague) Yes. Do you know how well he knew him? (By Mr. Olague) I would say they

17

Q.
A.

18 19

Q.
A.

20
21 22
23 24

w e r e n ' t g o o d f r i e n d s , b u t he h a d s e v e r a l occasions to be able to work with him. Prior

t o c o m i n g t o work.,for S h r e v e p o r t , h e w o r k e d for several districts including fire district three, and I think he just knew him a s an employee, not necessarily on a personal basis.

25
26

27

Q.
'

N o w , y o u m e n t i o n e d t h a t ,you m e t s o m e

28
29
30
31

of your son's acquaintances, firemen, some of them who actually worked the incident involving Joe Prock?
A

.''

(By Mr. Olague) I did not meet them

32

or have a discussion with them.

All the 159

5 '2' 5

1

information came to me from my son.

2 3 4

Q.

Could you tell us all the information

you know about this case?

A.

(By Mr. Olague) It was described t o

5
6
7

me that these individuals, Captain Prock was,
the manner

i n which he was k i l l e d ' w a s rather

horrendous.

8
9

Q.

Would you speak up, please.

You said

the manner he was killed was what?

10
11

A.
had been

(By Mr. Olague) I was told that he
set o n fire and that he had been

12 13 14

shot.

Q.
A.

That he was what? (By Mr. Olague) Shot.

15
16
17 18
19

Q.
before. A.

Shot. You u s e d the word "horrendous"
(By Mr. Olague) Yes. Was that the word they used, or i s

Q.

that your word to describe it?
A.

20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29

(By Mr. Olague) That's my word. Okay. What else do you know a b o u t it?

Q*

Do you know when it occurred, how it occurred?
A.

(By Mr. Olague) I know that i t

occurred a t his mother's house, and he walked in, and it was described as a home invasion or a robbery, that his mother had been injured also in some way, also.

Q.

Did you learn any information t o how

many people were involved?
A.

30
31

(By Mr. Olague) I ' m sure I was.

I

think it was two, but I d o not recall.

32

Q.

You learned that the mother was

:

, r
L'

~~

1
~

injured? A. ( B y Mr. Olague) T h a t ' s what I w a s

2

3
4

t o l d , y e s , sir.
Q.

What

k i n d o f i n f o r m a t i o n do y o u h a v e

I

5

about that?

6

A.
injured.

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) J u s t t h a t s h e w a s

I
I

7

8

Q.

W h e n Mr. Thompson a s k e d y o u w h e t h e r

9
10
11
12
13
14

having this knowledge and being a fireman,
being p a r t of t h e c o m m u n i t y in w h i c h M r . P r o c k
s e r v e d f o r y e a r s would a f f e c t y o u r p a r t i a l i t y , a n d y o u s a i d " I would like t o t h i n k n o . "

A.
and

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I'm a h u m a n b e i n g ,
I've tried t o base a l l

again,

of

my

15

d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g on the f a c t s t h a t w e r e a v a i l a b l e , a n d I would l i k e t o t h i n k t h a t I c o u l d s t i l l d o it. I believe I can. That's

16
17

the best that I can do.
19
20

Q.

S o m e t i m e s we a s k p e o p l e t o d o

difficult, if not impossible, things. A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) S u r e . For e x a m p l e , i f I t o l d y o u t o f o r g e t

21
22
23

Q.

t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n , you c o u l d n ' t ? A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No. When d i d you l e a r n t h i s i n f o r m a t i o n ,

24
25

Q.

26
27

by t h e way? A. ( B y Mr. Olague) P r o b a b l y w i t h i n a d a y

28

o r so a f t e r the i n c i d e n t o c c u r r e d .

29

Q.
years?
A.

And you r e m e m b e r i t a f t e r a l l t h e s e

30
31 32

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes, sir. Since it happened, have you learned

Q.

1

a d d i t i o n a l information - -

A.

(By M r . Olague) No.

Q.
4

- - t h a t s t a y e d with y o u ?
(By M r . O l a g u e ) ( J u r o r sha'kes h e a d . )

A.

5
6
7

Q*

Now, you used the word that what was

done to Mr. J o e P r o c k was " h o r r e n d o u s . "
That's a pretty strong adjective, and that describes - - would it also describe your f e e l i n g s a b o u t what was d o n e t o h i m ?
A.
(By Mr.

a
9
10

Olague)

Well,

i f that be the

11

c a s e , I w o u l d c o n s i d e r it h o r r e n d o u s .

I've

12
13

s e e n s o m e h o r r e n d o u s t h i n g s in m y l i f e a s a f i r e f i g h t e r , a n d I would c o n s i d e r t h a t

14
15
16

horrendous. Q.
A.
P l e a s e s p e a k up. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I a p o l o g i z e . I have

17

h a d s o m e s u r g e r y , and I'm - - I h a v e a b a d c a s e

ia
19

o f d r y m o u t h , a n d it's d i f f i c u l t s o m e t i m e s .
w i l l d o my b e s t .

I

20
21

Q.

I f you n e e d s o m e w a t e r , t h e y c a n

p r o v i d e it f o r y o u .
A.

22 23
24

(By Mr. Olague) I ' m a l l right.

Thank

you.
Q.

As a fireman, y o u ' v e s e e n a l o t o f

25

burned people.
A.

26
27

(By Mr. O l a g u e )

(Juror nods head.)
'

Q.

And having it d o n e t o o n e o f y o u r o w n

28
29

is particularly troublesome; would that be fair to say?
A.

30
31
32

( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes. And e v e n t h o u g h y o u ' w o u l d t r y , y o u

Q.

would try to honestly be fair and impartial,

.....
!
‘ L ”

1

is t h e r e any way y o u c a n g u a r a n t e e u s t h a t
during the trial that your emotions would not come into play? A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I ’ m a h u m a n b e i n g .

T h e r e i s no way I

can convince you.

All I can

t e l l you i s t h a t 1 , h a v e b a s e d m y l i f e o n l o g i c a l d e c i s i o n s , based o n t h e b e s t f a c t s
8

available.

9
10

Q.

A n d I believe you w o u l d t r y t o d o

y o u r b e s t , b u t all y o u c a n t e l l u s i s t h a t you can just try; is that right?

11
12

A.

( B y Mr. Olague) Y e s , s i r . MR. G O L D E N : T h a n k y o u , Mr. O l a g u e .

13

14
15
16 17
18

MR. THOMPSON:
Y o u r Honor. THE COURT:

No f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s ,

Thank you, sir.

Y o u may

r e t u r n o u t s i d e t o C o u r t r o o m H. y o u b a c k shortly. ,THE J U R O R : THE COURT:

W e w i l l call

19 20 21 22 23 24

( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) T h a n k y o u . All right. T h a n k y o u , sir.

(Whereupon the prospective juror was excused f r o m the c o u r t r o o m . ) THE COURT: W h o is t h e n e x t p e r s o n t o

be questioned individually? MR. T H O M P S O N : Your Honor, I believe

25
26 27 28 29 30
31

juror number ten, Ms. Snelling. MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, before we take

u p Ms. S n e l l i n g , I w o u l d l i k e t o m a k e a m o t i o n t o c h a l l e n g e Mr. O l a g u e f o r c a u s e . T H E COURT: MR. G O L D E N : You may m a k e y o u r m o t i o n .
I move to challenge

32

M r . O l a g u e for c a u s e under A r t i c l e 7 9 7 o f t h e
163

C o d e o f C r i m i n a l P r o c e d u r e , i n that I d o n ' t t h i n k Mr. O l a g u e can b e i m p a r t i a l w h a t e v e r the c a u s e of h i s p a r t i a l i t y .
4
~

Your Honor, I

b e l i e v e he i s very h o n e s t .

I believe he was

I

5
6
7

v e r y c a n d i d , a n d I t h i n k h e w o u l d t r y to do
h i s very, very best to

be a fair and impartial

j u r o r a n d t o be l o g i c a l , b e , o b j e c t i v e a n d d o t h i n g s in a f a i r m a n n e r ; h o w e v e r , g i v e n what he has already heard, given his connection to

10
11

f i r e f i g h t e r s , especially

the connection f r o m '

the s o n t o the victim a n d e v e n t h e fact that h e went t o the victim's w a k e s h o w s t h a t t h e r e

12
13

.

was a s t r o n g connection. He, himself, characterized what had
happened

14
15

t o the victim J o e P r o c k as,

his own

16
17
18

w o r d was, l l h o r r e n d o u s lw h i c h h e e x p l a i n e d was l n o t the word that they g a v e h i m , b u t h i s o w n w o r d t o c h a r a c t e r i z e what h e t h o u g h t of i t . A n d I b e l i e v e t h a t t h a t i s an i n d i c a t i o n o f t h e way h e f e e l s a b o u t w h a t h a p p e n e d t o M r . P r o c k in this c a s e . He d i d s a y h e w o u l d t r y t o set a s i d e the i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h e h a d .
Of c o u r s e , he

19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27

c a n n o t f o r g e t it, a n d e v e n t h o u g h h e w o u l d t r y to do his best, there is no guarantee that w h a t h e k n o w s would c o m e i n t o p l a y l a t e r a n d a f f e c t the way h e d e l i b e r a t e s in t h i s c a s e . For t h a t r e a s o n , I w o u l d m o v e t o c h a l l e n g e Mr. O l a g u e f o r c a u s e . MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , we w o u l d

28 29 30
31

r e s p e c t f u l l y note a n o b j e c t i o n t o M r . O l a g u e being challenged. He was questioned

32

thoroughly by b o t h p a r t y parties in r e g a r d s t o
the information that he had received f r o m h i s

I
~

3
4 5

son.

H e i n d i c a t e d t h a t h i s son k n e w the

v i c t i m , but h e h a d n e v e r h a d a n y c o n t a c t w i t h Mr. Prock, n o r h a d h e h a d a n y o c c a s i o n s t o work t h e d i s t r i c t where M r . P r o c k w a s assigned. He indicated

I I

6

that the i n f o r m a t i o n

h e r e c e i v e d , and I w o u l d n o t e t h e i n f o r m a t i o n received is still similar to the basic fact 10 p a t t e r n s t h a t we h a v e s h o w n t o t h e j u r o r s a n d

1'1
12 13

the basic fact patterns t h a t ' s b e e n r e p o r t e d
in the news. He indicated t h a t h e c o u l d s e t t h i s i n f o r m a t i o n a s i d e a n d b a s e h i s d e c i s i o n on the

14

15
16
17 18

f a c t s and e v i d e n c e i n p l a y and r e i t e r a t e d t h a t
s e v e r a l times during h i s answers.
He further

i n d i c a t e d t h a t he c o u l d b e a f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l juror, and h e d i d f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t , a n d I b e l i e v e his d e m e a n o r a n d the way h e answered o u r q u e s t i o n s d o r e f l e c t t h a t he does have a sincere belief that he can be f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l in t h i s c a s e a n d s e t a s i d e t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n a n d b a s e h i s v e r d i c t on the f a c t s a n d evidence. He i n d i c a t e d t h a t t h a t

19
20 21
22

23
24 25

i n f o r m a t i o n would n o t i n f l u e n c e h i s d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g in any w a y . Mr. Golden q u e s t i o n e d h i m a s t o whether or not his emotions would come into play, and
I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h e r e is a n y g u a r a n t e e d r i g h t

26 27 28 29
30

a s s e r t e d t o the d e f e n d a n t t h a t t h e j u r o r i s n o t g o i n g to h a v e e m o t i o n s i n p l a y , b u t the k e y h e r e i s whether o r n o t h e c o u l d s e t t h i s

31 32

1 2
3

information aside and base his decision strictly on the facts and evidence. And I

b e l i e v e h e h a s i n d i c a t e d s u c h so t o w h e r e t h e

4
5

information he was given d o e s not rise to a
l e v e l for a challenge f o r cause.
For t h o s e

r e a s o n s , Your Honor, we w o u l d r e s p e c t f u l l y object.

MR. G O L D E N :
9
10

Yo'ur H o n o r , r e a l b r i e f l y .

He b o t h h a s a p e r s o n a l c o n n e c t i o n t o t h e
victim indirectly through his son a n d direct11

11

by b e i n g a m e m b e r of t h a t c o m m u n i t y o f f i r e f i g h t e r s and a c t u a l l y g o i n g t o t h e w a k e of Mr. J o e Prock, b u t i n a d d i t i o n , h e h a s outside

12
13

14
15

p e r s o n a l k n o w l e d g e t h a t jurors s h o u l d n ' t come
i n t o the courtroom with, a n d t h a t goes b e y o n d t h e b a s i c fact p a t t e r n t h a t t h e S t a t e h a s beer! showing. They've just been showing the jurors the outline that says a home invasion robbery, Joe Prock has been killed and on the date. It d o e s n ' t g i v e any of t h o s e d e t a i l s . S o , Your Honor, we h a v e a d o u b l e p r o b l e m h e r e , and
I t h i n k t h a t the o n l y r e m e d y i s a c h a l l e n g e

16

17

18
19

20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27

f o r c h a l l e n g e being g r a n t e d . MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , i f I may

r e s p o n d t o t h a t a s well, t o o , t h e l a w r e c o g n i z e s t h a t a j u r o r may h a v e s o m e t y p e o f c o n t a c t with t h e p a r t i e s i n t h i s case. These

28
29

s i t u a t i o n s a r e n o t u n u s u a l in s m a l l e r p a r i s h e s where everyone knows everybody, and everybody h a s h e a r d information a n d f a c t s a b o u t an incident. T h e key i s w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e s e

30
31

32

..

I

I

I

I

I

9,

.-

.\

!
"

FURTHER VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

Q.

Ms. S n e l l i n g , good a f t e r n o o n a g a i n .

You i n d i c a t e d in the e a r l i e r r o u n d t h a t o n e o f

your friends may have had a

personal

r e l a t i o n s h i p with the victim in t h i s c a s e ,
Mr. Joe Prock.

A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q.
10
s e t t i n g

I h o p e this i s a p r i v a t e e n o u g h
t o
t a l k about

those issues.

And

I'll

11

l e t y o u elaborate. A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I t w a s d i s c u s s e d a t

12
13

l e n g t h when i t happened, you k n o w , what

14
15

happened and the circumstances, the things,
you k n o w , a n d i t wasn't from t h e m e d i a or from t h e f a m i l y . And - -

16
17

Q.

When y o u say " t h e f a m i l y , " w h o a r e

18
19

you referring to? A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.) Y o u ' r e saying you h a d s o m e

20
21
22 23 24 25

Q.

discussions? A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) No, I d i d n ' t h e a r I heard it from

i t d i r e c t l y from t h e f a m i l y . my friend.

Q.
A.

Your f r i e n d ? ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) R i g h t . Okay. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) Y o u k n o w , we h a v e a

26
27

Q.
A.

28 29

l a r g e w o r k p l a c e of women, so t h e r e i s t a l k . But, anyway, you know, it was discussed at great length then, and then, of course, it has c o m e u p a g a i n s i n c e the trial. And, of

30
31 32

1 2

course, my summons came from civil court, so I had n o clue that I was going to b e in a juror pool for a criminal trial.

3
4
5

Q.
A.

Okay. (By M s . Snelling)

B e c a u s e I have

6 7

been served for criminal before.

Q.

What information did you receive when

8
9

the incident first occurred from your friend?

A.

(By Ms. Snelling) Just that, you

10
11

know, h e p a s s e d

his mother's house a n d saw a

strange car there, stopped to check on her, and he was attacked, he was beaten, he was tied to a chair and caught on fire.

12 13
14

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Ms. Snelling) And that the mom

15

16
17

was able to free herself and escape the house
a f t e r t h e p e o p l e left.

18

Q.

A n d a r e y o u a t liberty to state what

19

type o f relationship this lady had with
M r . Prock?

20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28

A.

(By Ms. Snelling) She's not - - YOU

know, she just said that - -

Q.

I d o n ' t mean to say it that way.

It

probably came out wrong.

What I'm saying is,

what type - - like close friends?
A.

(By Ms. Snelling) Friend. Colleagues? (By M s . Snelling) It was through a

Q.
A.

29 30
31

close personal friend.

Q.
A.

Okay. (By M s . Snelling) She, you know, she

32

d i d n ' t g o into any detail as to - - you know ,
169

r.
k a,
-4 l

tJ
, G

0
-rl

k

pc;

a,

a
a
A

cn
-4

c
4J

7 0 h
tJ

c

rd

k

, G

w

a, c,

3
0

c
a

[) I

a
c
w a,
a,

r d

h

4

E

v

a
c
4J

a,

01

A

Ll

w

0

y o u s o m e d i f f i c u l t y ; w o u l d t h a t b e f a i r to,

I

say? A. (By Ms. Snelling) Yes.

I

Q.

I'll l e t you a n s w e r t h i s , a n d I ' l l

accept whatever answer you have, do you feel t h a t t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t you r e c e i v e d a n d the n a t u r e o f the c i r c u m s t a n c e s o f t h i s c a s e w o u l d
,

impair your ability to serve as a fair and

impartial juror in this c a s e ?
A.
( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes,

I do.

Q.
A.

And d o y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q.

Is t h e r e anything I c o u l d s a y o r
t h a t

M r . M c C l a t c h e y o r Mr. G o l d e n c o u l d s a y w o u l d c h a n g e y o u r mind? A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) N o . MR. THOMPSON:

Ms. S n e l l i n g , I d o want

t o thank you f o r y o u r a n s w e r s a n d y o u r honesty. MR. G O L D E N : Your H o n o r , t h e d e f e n s e

,
~

Ms. Snelling, you may return to

Courtroom H.

We will call you back shortly.

(Whereupon the prospective juror was excused from the courtroom.) MR. G O L D E N : Let t h e r e c o r d r e f l e c t

t h a t a l l p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s a r e o u t of t h e courtroom.

I

Y o u r Honor, a t t h i s t i m e t h e d e f e n s e w o u l d move t o c h a l l e n g e M s . S n e l l i n g for c a u s e u n d e r Article 797, a n i n a b i l i t y t o b e a n

1

i m p a r t i a l j u r o r in t h i s c a s e . MR. T H O M P S O N : That's without objection

2
. 3

b a s e d h e r a n s w e r s a n d h e r d e m e a n o r in t h e i n d i v i d u a l round o f voir d i r e .

4

5
6

THE COURT:
the defense and b y

For the r e a s o n s s t a t e d b y
the

State, the Cdurt will

7

g r a n t the c h a l l e n g e f o r c a u s e w i t h n o o b j ection . (Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

8

9

10
11

from t h e venire panel.)
MR. THOMPSON:

Your H o n o r , I w o u l d a l s o

12

note that juror number four had indicated her i n a b i l i t y t o c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y in the matter. I've spoken to defense counsel. It

.13
14

15
16

is my understanding that as employed by
e a r l i e r m e t h o d s in t h e e a r l i e r r o u n d s in voir d i r e t h a t the d e f e n s e w i s h e s t o q u e s t i o n h e r at this time.

17 18

I believe she may be an

19
20
21

i n d i v i d u a l t h a t would b e c h a l l e n g e a b l e b y c a u s e , b u t I wanted t o a f f o r d the d e f e n s e an opportunity to question her at this time. MR. GOLDEN: Yes, Honor. I believe she

22
23

may w e l l b e a W i t h e r s p o o n e x c l u d a b l e . I would like to examine her further at this time. THE COURT:
A l l right.

24
25
26 27

So o r d e r e d .

Ms. E r m a E d w a r d s .

( W h e r e u p o n t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom. ) THE COURT: Ms. E d w a r d s , w e b r o u g h t you

28
29

30
3 1

in t o a s k you' a few' q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s . T H E JUROR: (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Okay.

32

1 2 3
4

I
I

THE COURT:

Is t h e defense ready t o

proceed.

MR. GOLDEN:

Thank y o u ,

Your Honor.

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
BY M R . G O L D E N :

Q.
8
9

Good a f t e r n o o n ,

Ms. E d w a r d s .

A. Q.

(By M s .
M s .

Edwards) H e l l o .
when

Edwards,

you

w e r e

previously

10 11
12

asked t o r a t e yourself rated yourself

by M r .

Thompson,

you

as a five.

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

13
14
15

Q.

And I b e l i e v e h i s c h a r t s a i d t h a t y o u
the death penalty
is
the

would t h i n k t h a t

only

a p p r o p r i a t e punishment

--

I ' m

s o r r y -- t h a t

16
17
18

l i f e imprisonment i s t h e only a p p r o p r i a t e punishment f o r f i r s t degree murder. Yes. for a first

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s )

19

Would you

automatically vote

20 21
22

l i f e s e n t e n c e f o r somebody c o n v i c t e d o f d e g r e e m u r d e r no m a t t e r w h a t

t h e evidence i s ?
the

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) N o m a t t e r w h a t Like

23
24

evidence i s . t o be

I said before,

I d o n ' t want
someone that

t h e o n e t o p l a c e t h e p e n a l t y on they find out a t h a t person few y e a r s

25
26

and then

later

t h a t wasn't

even though t h e you and

27
28
29

e v i d e n c e -- t h e y had a l l t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t have t h a t pointed d i r e c t l y t o t h a t person

n o o t h e r e v i d e n c e h a d come a b o u t s t a t i n g t h a t wasn't t h a t person,

30

s o t h i s person has been

31
32

p l a c e d o n d e a t h row a n d g o i n g t o r e c e i v e t h e death penalty, and t h e n t h i s person g e t s the

death penalty and then later on you find out,
hey, this wasn't the person. And then I That's

couldn't live with myself doing that.
4

why I am against the death penalty.

5
6

Q.
have

Is that your only concern, or do you
reasons?

other

7

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) No. That's your only concern? (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

8

Q.
A.

9

10
11
12

Q*

In o r d e r t o g e t t o

t h e p o i n t in a

capitai case where the jury i s deciding
sentence, in order to get that point, that means there was a conviction for first degree murder.

13
14

15

A.
Q.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y .

16
17

That means that the State has proved

guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A. (By M s . Edwards) I understand. If somebody comes before you w h o ' s

18
19
20
2 1 22

Q.

guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, could you then consider both options reasonably?
A.

(By M s . Edwards) I could.
' A l l right.

23

Q.

S o if I understand you,

24 25
26
27

if somebody comes to you in the guilt phase I'm sorry - - comes to you in a penalty phase, he has been found guilty, you could consider both options. A. (By Ms. E-dwards) I could consider. And that's assuming that his guilt

28 29
30
31
32

Q.

has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt.
A.

(By M s . Edwards) Okay. And, o f course, you and the rest of

Q.

1
2

the jurors would be here to decide whether he w a s , in fact, g u i l t y b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e doubt.

3

4
5

A.
Q.
it? A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
Does that make you feel better about

6
7

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) A l i t t l e . I f you h a d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t , you

8

Q.

9
10
11

wouldn't have to find him guilty to begin
with.

A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Right. In fact, the law s a y s y o u m u s t n o t

12

Q.

13
14
15

find, him guilty to begin with.
A.
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) R i g h t . Does that help allay your fears? ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yeah.
So if somebody c o m e s b e f o r e y o u for

Q.
A.

16
17

Q.

18
19

sentencing, that's only because his guilt has been established. of m u r d e r . A. (By Ms. Edwards) The murder. Beyond a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t t o y o u r When I s a y " g u i l t , " g u i l t

20

21 22 23 24 25 26
27

Q.

s a t i s f a c t i o n b e c a u s e it t a k e s a u n a n i m o u s v e r d i c t t o f i n d s o m e b o d y , g u i l t y of f i r s t d e g r e e murder.
A.

( B y M s ; E d w a r d s ) R i g h t , right.

I

understand.

28
29
30

Q.

So you w o u l d n e v e r h a v e to e v e n c r o s s

t h a t s e c o n d bridge t o d e t e r m i n e w h a t s e n t e n c e is appropriate; do you understand that?
A.

31 32

(By Ms. Edwards) I understand that.
So i f h e i s b e f o r e you f o r

Q.

s e n t e n c i n g , t h a t ' s b e c a u s e t h e r e i s no reasonable doubt that he is not guilty; have you got it?
A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s )

Urn-hum.

Q.

So in t h a t p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , w h e r e

s o m e b o d y i s before you f o r s e n t e n c i n g , y o u c o u l d c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

8
9
10

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. Edwards)

I don't - - I

wouldn't l i k e it, but I guess I could.
You understand, a l o t of u s d o n ' t S o m e t i m e s i t is

11
12

l i k e t o d o a l o t o f things. o u r d u t y t o d o it.

13
14
15

A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Right.
If i t w e r e the right p u n i s h m e n t , if

Q.

y o u f e l t h e really d e s e r v e d it, c o u l d y o u vote

16 17

to give it to him?
A. Q.
,

( B y Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t know. Could you ever see yourself voting to

18
19

g i v e a n y b o d y the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

20
21 22 23

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k so.

I ' v e a l w a y s f e a r e d a b o u t my o w n c h i l d , i f my c h i l d w a s in that position, and t'hen i t w a s t h e w r o n g p e r s o n , it w o u l d n ' t b r i n g m y c h i l d back. I'm sorry. That's how I feel. Even though he has been proven guilty

24
25

Q.

26
27

beyond a reasonable doubt?
A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. Let me a s k y o u a s l i g h t l y d i f f e r e n t Maybe t h i s w i l l h e l p c l e a r i t u p

28
29

Q.
question.

3 .o
31

b e c a u s e it s e e m s like you h a v e g o n e b a c k a n d f o r t h on w h e t h e r you c o u l d e v e r i m p o s e t h e death penalty. Would you h a v e s u b s t a n t i a l

32

..

1

difficulty ever imposing the death p e n a l t y ? A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes, I would. Are you confident in t h a t p o s i t i o n ?

Q.

4
5
6
7

A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) I don't feel right

if I have to impose something to t a k e a l i f e ,
I know this, and that's based o n my religious faith.
I just can't s e e it.

I've been.taught

8

t h i s way a l l my life and then come b a c k and

9
10
11
12
13
14

then I'm d o i n g what the

Bible says n o t t o d o

which the defendant did it t o p u t t h e defendant to death. wouldn't feel right. I d o n ' t feel r i g h t .
I

Q.
well?

So these are religious values a s

15

A.

( B y M s . Edwards) Yes.

16
17

Q.
A.

Are theytvery important t o y o u ? (By Ms. Edwards) Y e s .

18
19

Q.

So you have personal f e e l i n g s a g a i n s t

the d e a t h penalty?

20 21
22
23 24 25

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) Yes. In addition, you have r e l i g i o u s

Q.

scruples against the death penalty.
A.
(By M s . Edwards) Yes.

Q.

For those reasons, you would have

substantial difficulty ever imposing a d e a t h sentence. A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.
All right.

26
27

28 29 30
31 32

Q.

Is there anything I o r

Judge Mosely could say to you t o c h a n g e y o u r mind?
A.

( B y Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t k n o w .

I

would have t o hear what he h a d t o s a y .

Q.

If he were to tell you t h a t you have

to consider, it would be your d u t y to consider imposing the death p e n a l t y , c o u l d you c o n s i d e r it?
A.
(By Ms.

Edwards) I could consider

it.

I would follow his instructions.

Q.

"Consider" means more than s a y i n g I

will listen to the evidence - -

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) No. I understand - -

Q.

I t means s o m e t i m e s

you have t o
I understand

actually impose it. A. it. (By M s . Edwards) Right.

Q.

It seems like that that's where we
Could you sometimes

run i n t o the problem.

imp.ose it?
A.
( B y M s . Edwards) Yes.

If I ' m g o i n g

to f o l l o w the judge's instructions, I'll follow it.

Q.

So you could sometimes impose i t if

the judge told you that i t was your d u t y to consider t h a t option? A. (By Ms. Edwards) Right. C o u l d you consider imposing i t

Q.

without substantial difficulty? A. (By Ms. Edwards) I think I ' m g o i n g t o I don't know

always have difficulty. whether - -

Q.

When I say "difficulty," I d o n ' t

mean, you know, t o cause you some e m o t i o n a l s t r e s s , would you have g r e a t reluctance when I say "difficulty,
I'

great reluctance in ever
i

imposing it?

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Y e s . MR. G O L D E N :

I t e n d e r b a c k , Y o u r Honor.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q.

G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Ms. E d w a r d s .

I

u n d e r s t a n d you are having s o m e d i f f i c u l t y w i t h 9
10

this c h o i c e , b u t you u n d e r s t a n d
process, right?
A.

why we d o t h i s

11 12

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. You r e m e m b e r m y e a r l i e r c o n v e r s a t i o n s then

Q.

13
14
15

a b o u t h a v i n g j u r o r s p u t on t h e c a s e and
m i d w a y t h r o u g h they want t o s a y , w a i t , I

s h o u l d n ' t h a v e b e e n on t h i s c a s e b e c a u s e i t ' s n o t f a i r t o your case b e c a u s e I'm n e v e r g o i n g to impose a death penalty, I just can't do it; d o y o u r e m e m b e r t h a t line of q u e s t i o n i n g ?
A.

16
17

18

19 20 21 22
23

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes, I r e m e m b e r . T h a t ' s what w e ' r e s e e k i n g h e r e . And
I

Q.

I u n d e r s t a n d t h e question a b o u t a

consideration.

D o you view a c o n s i d e r a t i o n

the s a m e 'as a c t u a l l y a b l e t o d o s o m e t h i n g ?
A.

24
25

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. I d o n ' t want t o put y o u r w o r d s i n

Q.

26

y o u r mouth. A. honest. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y . I ' m b e i n g

27
28

29

Q.

Let me a s k you t h i s :

As a potential

30
31

j u r o r in t h i s c a s e , if we put y o u on t h i s jury, w o u l d the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e a s e r i o u s option for you?

32

_-

'

1 2
3
4

A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) It w o u l d b e , b u t I

I

Q.
penalty? A.

So you could i m p o s e the d e a t h

5

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I c o u l d . In what s c e n a r i o s a n d s i t u a t i o n s

6
7

Q.

c o u l d you c o n s i d e r t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n ?

8
9
10
11 12

A.

(By Ms. Edwards) I think I heard of a

c a s e that I ' v e s e e n .

I saw this one where

t h i s i n d i v i d u a l k i l l e d h i s f a m i l y , a n d he said i t w a s b e c a u s e of the d i v o r c e a n d h i s m i n d h a d c h a n g e d a n d h e d i d n ' t know what w a s g o i n g o n

13
14
15

at the time, and he felt t h a t h e d i d w h a t h e
was

s u p p o s e d t o d o and t h a t h e s h o u l d n ' t h a v e

t h e d e a t h penalty because he w a s n ' t in h i s r i g h t m i n d o r something.
I just felt that he

16
17

n e e d s t o g e t the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e I d o n ' t k n o w , c h i l d r e n , my f a m i l y , o r a n y b o d y e l s e ' s family that has been murdered.

18

19 20
21
22

Q.
A.
would.

I'm sorry? (By Ms. Edwards) I don't think that I

23 24
25

Q.

Y o u ' r e s a y i n g you d o n ' t t h i n k y o u

w o u l d on a n y t h i n g - -

A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) W e l l , in s o m e c a s e s

26
27

w h e n i t was e x t r e m e l i k e t h a t a n d t h e y ' r e c o n t i n u a l l y doing s t u f f l i k e m u r d e r i n g p e o p l e , like a serial killer, I don't mind imposing the d e a t h p e n a l t y on them.

28
29
30

Q.

W e l l , l e t me a s k y o u this:

You

31
32

i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r that you h a v e a r e l i g i o u s b e l i e f a g a i n s t the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

5897

. -

I

1 2

A.

(By M s . And y o u (By M s .

Edwards)

I do.

Q.
A.

feel strongly about that?
E d w a r d s ) Yes.

3

4
5
6
7

Q.
A.

T h a t h a s been y o u r w h o l e l i f e t h a t

you've had that?

Yes,

that's

t h e w a y I was b r o u g h t u p . the

Q.

So y o u were b r o u g h t u p a g a i n s t

8

death penalty?

9
'10
11
12

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
You have a religious belief against
is that fair t o say?
Yes,
that is fair.
do you

Q.

the death penalty;
A.

(By M s . Well,

Edwards)

13
14
that

Q.

with that

i n place,

feel

t h o s e views would prevent o r

15

s u b s t a n t i a l l y impair your a b i l i t y t o c o n s i d e r
the

16
17

death p e n a l t y ?
A.

Do

y o u s e e how t h a t w o r k s ?
Yes,
I

(By M s . but

Edwards)

s e e how i t

18
19
20

works,

I usually
i f

t a l k t o my p a s t o r

first.

Q.
jury,
there
A.

Well,

you g e t selected f o r t h i s

you are n o t g o i n g t o have y o u r p a s t o r t o h e l p you. (By M s .
W e

21 22
23
24
25

Edwards)

I

know,

.I k n o w .

Q.

don't

want p u t t o j u r o r s either they can't

way i n a bad s i t u a t i o n i f c o n s i d e r -A.

26
27

(By M s .

Edwards)

I

can.

I

can do it.

I

can do it.

28 29 30
31

Q.

Even t h o u g h you r a t e d y o u r s e l f

a five

o n my d e a l ?
A.

(By M s .

Edwards)

Yes,

I

c a n do i t .

I

still can do it.

32

Q.

I ' m

sorry?

1

A.

(By M s .
If

Edwards)

I can do it.

Q.

w e were t o p l a c e y o u o n t h i s j u r y ,
do you s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y

a n d a s you c a n see, here i n court today?

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s )

Yes.

Knowing t h a t F e l t o n D o r s e y i s the

person that w e are seeking t h e death penalty on r i g h t h e r e , w o u l d you a b l e t o impose t h e Would you be a b l e t o

d e a t h p e n a l t y on him?

10
11
12

come b a c k h e r e i n

c o u r t and l o o k a t
I was p a r t

F e l t o n Dorsey i n t h e face a n d s a y ,
of
the decision that

imposed the d e a t h

13

penalt'y?

14
15

A.
Q.
A.
,

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I c a n .
You c a n ? (By M s .
Edwards)

16

I

can.

17
18
19

Q.
A.

Even based on y o u r e a r l i e r a n s w e r s ? (By M s .
Edwards) Even based o n t h e
I can.
THOMPSON:

earlier answers,
MR.
I

20
21
22 23 24 25 26 27

Okay.

Your Honor,

could

have a s e c o n d .
THE COURT:

You m a y .
the

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f
held. )
MR.

record was

THOMPSON:

That's

all

the

questions

I have

at this time.
MR. GOLDEN:

J u s t o n e more q u e s t i o n .

28
29 30
BY M R .

FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
GOLDEN:

31
32

Q.
the

One l a s t q u e s t i o n ,

c o u l d you impose knowing a l l

death p e n a l t y

again without

t h e d e t a i l s o n e way or the o t h e r , g o o d a n d bad, on somebody who killed somebody during a b u r g l a r y o r a robbery or a r a p e ?
4

A.

(By M s . E d w a r d s ) C o u l d I i m p o s e t h a t ?

5
6 7

On t h e b u r g l a r y ?

Q.

S o m e o n e who i n t e n t i o n a l l y killed

somebody - -

8
9
10
11

A.
Q.
A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) U h - h u h .
- - during a robbery, rape, burglary?
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
MR. GOLDEN: THE COURT: T h a n k you. Any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n i n g by

1'2
13

the State? MR. THOMPSON: Your Honor. THE COURT: ma'am. Not a t t h i s t i m e ,

1 4
15

16 17

All right.

Thank you,

You may r e t u r n t o C o u r t r o o m H, a n d we

18
19

w i l l c a l l you b a c k s h o r t l y . (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused f r o m the courtroom.) MR. THOMPSON: Your H o n o r , Ms. E d w a r d s At t h i s t i m e , the

20
.21 22 23 24

i s o u t o f the c o u r t r o o m .

S t a t e w o u l d move f o r a c h a l l e n g e f o r c a u s e as t o Ms. Edwards. We w o u l d b a s e o u r c a u s e on

25
26 27

h e r e n t i r e a n s w e r s in the voir d i r e e x a m i n a t i o n , b o t h the r e g u l a r v o i r d i r e e x a m i n a t i o n a s w e l l a s h e r i n d i v i d u a l answers. W e w o u l d c i t e S t a t e v.
T a t e which was a case

28
29 30
31

i n the W i t h e r s p o o n s i t u a t i o n w h e r e t h e d e a t h penalty was a f f i r m e d a n d w h e r e a j u r o r , the s i t u a t i o n w a s raised w h e r e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s were equivocal as to whether they could

32

.

--.
.
',

..

i
c c

i

actually impose the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r not. That is S t a t e v . T a t e ,
I

851 S o .

2d. 9 2 1 .

3 4

Your Honor, in t h e e a r l i e r r o u n d s o f voir d i r e ; Ms. Edwards had i n d i c a t e d t h a t she

was a five, and upon being questioned,

she

indicated that she would .automatically vote
for life n o matter what t h e e v i d e n c e was that the State presented.
9
10

S h e h a d i n d i c a t e d that

s h e had longstanding moral a n d r e l i g i o u s ,
especially

religious, beliefs against the

11

d e a t h penalty.

S h e affirmed t h a t i n t h e

12

,individual voir d i r e when p r e s s e d , a n d I b e l i e v e t h e situation c o u l d p l a y o u t , I ' m

13

14
15
16
17

getting the feeling that she doesn't want to
o f f e n d a district court judge by s t a t i n g , f ' m n o t going to follow his i n s t r u c t i o n s , I'll d o whatever he tells m e to, which I t h i n k would be common for some j u r o r s to a n s w e r in that manner as to not o f f e n d the p r e s i d i n g judge. And I believe her a n s w e r s in t h e i r totality r e f l e c t a substantial i m p a i r m e n t i n her ability to consider the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n this c a s e which I believe w o u l d g i v e r i s e for a c h a l l e n g e for cause. For t h o s e r e a s o n s ,

18
19

20 21 22 23 24
25

Your Honor, we would move a s s u c h .

26
27 28
29

MR. G O L D E N :

Your H o n o r , i n i t i a l l y , I

w o u l d agree with Mr. Thompson t h a t M s . Edwards d i d rate herself has a five, w o u l d h a v e d i f f i c u l t y , perhaps even s u b s t a n t i a l d i f f i c u l t y , imposing a d e a t h s e n t e n c e . And

30 31 32

when we questioned her s e p a r a t e l y , at first s h e was consistent with t h a t v i e w , t h e n she

s t a r t e d e q u i v o c a t i n g , s a y i n g w e l l , in s o m e i n s t a n c e s and then, well, b u t I s t i l l h a v e some scruples against it, personal scruples, r e l i g i o u s scruples, a n d t h e n a t t h e very e n d

of my questioning, s h e said y e s , I could
6
7

i m p o s e it, c o u l d impose i t in c e r t a i n c a s e s . A n d Mr. Thompson a s k e d h e r f u r t h e r a n d s h e was c l e a r t h a t s h e in t h e l a s t a n s w e r s t o

8

9

Mr. T h o m p s o n t h a t s h e c e r t a i n l y c o u l d i m p o s e

10
11
12
13

it in the right cases, And the class of cases
in which s h e affirmed that she c o u l d i m p o s e i t began to broaden, and finally, when I came back to ask her that final question, she did c o n f i r m t h a t s h e c o u l d i m p o s e i t e v e n in t h e case at the bar during a killing during a

14
15

16
17

robbery,

rape, or b u r g l a r y ; i n o t h e r w o r d s ,
And h e r

killing with an underlying felony.

18

l a s t a n s w e r was very c l e a r , concise a n d unequivocal, and I believe her body language shows that she said it with conviction.
So i f

19
20 21 22 23
24

y o u l o o k a t h e r a n s w e r s i n i t i a l l y , s h e would h a v e b e e n a four- and- a- half o r f i v e , b u t if you l o o k h e r a n s w e r a t t h e e n d , I b e l i e v e t h a t she has rehabilitated herself and that she can i m p o s e the d e a t h p e n a l t y , a n d s h e m a d e i t clear that she could impose it for the kind of o f f e n s e t h a t h a p p e n e d in t h i s p a r t i c u l a r c a s e .
MR. THOMPSON:

25

26
27
28 29 30 31 32

Your H o n o r , o n c e again,

I d r a w back t o h e r o r i g i n a l a n s w e r s , a n d I

b e l i e v e the d i s t r i c t c o u r t c o u l d t a k e n o t i c e
o f h e r d e m e a n o r in t h e way s h e w a s answering

her questions here between the defense and I
186

5902'

1

in this individual session of voir dire. was almost a resignation o f , y e s , I will

It

2 3

f o l l o w the district court's instructions, o r whatever Mr. Golden asks, y e s , I'll consider it.

4
I

5
6

She used the words 1'1'11 c o n s i d e r

it,"
of

but then she would go back to the phrases

7

my religious beliefs, I ' v e g r o w n up my whole l i f e against the death penalty, a n d a s s h e indicated in her earlier questions, s h e was
against
the
death

8
I

9
10

penalty

and

she rated

11

herself a five and that s h e i n d i c a t e d t h a t she would be substantially impaired f r o m the making the death penalty a s e r i o u s o p t i o n o r consideration.
I

12

13
1 4
15

For these r e a s o n s , Your H o n o r ,

believe this situation is s i m i l a r to the

16
17

case c i t e d in S t a t e v . T a t e where the district c o u r t i s faced with a juror w h o i s equivocating a s to her ability to f o l l o w the relation to whether s h e c o u l d c o n s i d e r the death penalty. F o r this reason, Y o u r Honor, I believe it would appropriate for the district c o u r t and i t would be i n the d i s t r i c t c o u r t ' s discretion t o grant our challenge f o r cause b a s e d on her inability to f o l l o w the l a w in t h i s situation.
MR. G O L D E N :

18
19 20
21

22 23 24 25

26
27

Your Honor, t h e r e is one

thing t h a t she d i d make clear w a s h e r ability to follow the law. That's when s h e changed

28
29 30 31 32

her entire position when I s a i d i f I were to tell you o r the judge were to t e l l you i t was your d u t y to consider i t and s h e s a i d o f c o u r s e and that's when s h e c o m p l e t e l y turned
187

5983

i m p o s i n g a d e a t h penalty.

On reexamination,

she appeared to change her mind, stating that s h e c o u l d apply the d e a t h p e n a l t y , so b a s e d

u p o n her responses, I will deny the State's
challenge for cause.
N o t e the S t a t e ' s o b j e c t i o n t o the C o u r t ' s ruling for the record. MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, we have no

p r o s p e c t i v e jurors that we wish to question
outside the presence of others.
MR. T H O M P S O N : THE COURT: N o r do w e , Y o u r Honor.

We will be in recess for

five minutes.
(Whereupon a short recess was t a k e n . )
'(Whereupon t h e d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t w i t h counsel. ) THE COURT:
D o you request any

i n d i v i d u a l voir d i r e b y t h e S t a t e ? MR. THOMPSON: Your Honor. THE COURT: MR. G O L D E N : Your Honor. THE COURT: First of all, we can send T h e n we N o t h i n g by t h e S t a t e ,

All right.

The defense.

None by the defense,

h o m e Mr. O l a g u e a n d M s . S n e l l i n g . w i l l n e e d everybody e l s e .
I

( W h e r e u p o n t h e venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in t h e courtroom.) THE COURT: your patience. T h a n k y o u a g a i n so much f o r

We are now ready to continue

with v o i r d i r e examination.
Is the d e f e n s e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .
189

5905

MR. G O L D E N : you.

Y e s , Your Honor. T h a n k

(Whereupon a Powerpoint presentation prepared b y t h e D e f e n s e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e

panel.

)

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N BY MR. G O L D E N :

Q.

G o o d afternoon.
D a v i d

I'm A l a n G o l d e n . I

a l o n g with

McClatchey and

M i c h e l l e AndrePont a n d G l e n G a r r e t , t h e l a s t t w o n o t b e i n g here, we r e p r e s e n t F e l t o n D o r s e y w h o i s c h a r g e d with f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r . I

say "charged" because
time.

that's all it i s a t t h i s

A n d it m i g h t s e e m k i n d of s t r a n g e that

we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y w h e n w e haven't even had a trial yet, but the reason why w e ' r e going t h r o u g h t h i s w h o l e p r o c e s s , t h i s w h o l e exercise, i s t o t r y t o f i n d j u r o r s w h o c a n i m p a r t i a l l y a n d f a i r l y try t h i s c a s e . W e c a l l t h i s voir d i r e w h i c h m e a n s " t o s e e a n d t o speak." T h o s e a r e F r e n c h w o r d s . A n d t h i s i s t h e c h a n c e w h e r e we c a n t a l k w i t h o n e another. us questions. You c a n t a l k t o u s , t o o , a n d a s k In fact, t h i s w i l l b e t h e o n l y

time y o u g e t t o a s k us q u e s t i o n s b e c a u s e o n c e the t r i a l s t a r t s , it i s t o o late. If you have

a c o n c e r n o r a n i s s u e or a p r o b l e m , n o w i s t h e t i m e t o e x p r e s s i t b e c a u s e o n c e we s t a r t , o n c e t h e t r i a l s t a r t s , it's t o o late. Let me e x p l a i n t h e p u r p o s e of v o i r d i r e w h i c h i s jury p r o c e s s . It is essentially

.

--.

1
2 3
I
I

t o find a jury that can fairly try t h i s case. It's that simple. And to do that, we have t o

find out kind of the negative, find out if there i s anything that would prevent you from being a b l e to fairly t r y t h i s c a s e .

4

And

that's why we have been asking you questions about sequestration, whether you had any prior knowledge about the case and your views on capital punishment.
10

That's the main thing
w e w a n t

because this i s a c a p i t a l murder c a s e ,

11

to know your attitudes about the death penalty. Some of you might be perfect jurors for another kind of case, a robbery case or a
t h e f t

12
13

14
15

case,

but

t h i s ,

as

w e

know,

i t ' s

an

16

e m o t i o n a l l y charged offense because

it

17

involves the death penalty.

And that's why we And

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30

are probing and asking these questions.

related to that i s whether you can accept and apply the law related to capital punishment. And, finally, your knowledge o r information about the case. Again, we don't

mean to be too probing or get too personal, sometimes we have to. If we think it will
.

affect the case, i t ' s our obligation t o d o that. At this point, we only expect one thing We don't want you to We d o n ' t want you t o

from you: Honesty. necessarily be fair.

say, you know, look, I know it's fair t o say this, so I'm going to say that because I want to be a fair person - - I think we all d o - - at this point, we don't care what your feelings
191

31
32

5907

I I

1
~

are.

We don't c a r e h o w

the extreme

your views

2

i

a r e , w h e t h e r you are totally a g a i n s t c a p i t a l p u n i s h m e n t o r totally f o r i t , n o m a t t e r h o w

3
I

4

e x t r e m e i t i s o r how u n u s u a l i t i s , we n e e d t o

5
6
I
I
I

k n o w i t even i f i t ' s n o t t h e s o c i a l l y
a c c e p t a b l e thing t o say or p o l i t i c a l l y c o r r e c t o r it s e e m s unfair. We've j u s t g o t t o k n o w

7
8

i t , a n d i t ' s okay t o h a v e a view. W e c a n ' t ask you t o c o m e i n t o t h i s

9

10
11
12

c o u r t r o o m and s a y , y o u k n o w , I'll l e a v e my
views b e h i n d .

We are n o t r o b o t s .

We are

human b e i n g s , a n d we c a n ' t d o t h a t . L e t me explain the r o l e of t h e parties here to familiarize yourselves with

13
14

15
16
17
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26

what's going o n h e r e .

W h a v e t h e j u d g e who e

is the n e u t r a l r e f e r e e , ' a n d h i s j o b i s t o m a k e
r u l i n g s on the law a n d t o g i v e y o u t h e l a w . T h e l a w w i l l only c o m e from h i m . U n l i k e a r e f e r e e in a s p o r t i n g e v e n t , the j u d g e d o e s n ' t b l o w t h e whistle u n l e s s we a s k h i m t o d o t h a t . So t h a t m e a n s t h a t we w i l l o b j e c t , we w i l l a s k t o a p p r o a c h the B e n c h a n d a s k f o r a r u l i n g o n something. Then he gets involved and he will

make a decision. T h e p r o s e c u t o r , or the S t a t e , t h e i r
job

is to present evidence favorable to the They are a n advocate f o r t h e S t a t e .

27
28 29 30 31 32

State.

T h a t means, they a r e g o i n g t o t r y t o p u t o n e v i d e n c e - - and they a r e s u p p o s e d t o p u t o n e v i d e n c e - - t o p r o v e the g u i l t of Mr. D o r s e y beyond a reasonable doubt. d o that. I expect them to

If they are not d o i n g i t , t h e y a r e

--.

I

1
2
3

not doing their j o b .

They a r e going to put o n
that they have t o
They

I I

whatever evidence they t h i n k

prove g u i l t beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt.

4 5

a r e n ' t g o i n g t o p u t on any e v i d e n c e t o p r o v e innocence o r t h a t raises reasonable doubt. t h e c o n t e x t of In

6
7

a penalty phase,

t h e i r j o b -on They

l e t m e be f r a n k a b o u t i t - - i s t o p u t

8
9

evidence t o j u s t i f y the death penalty.

a r e g o i n g t o p u t on a l l t h e bad e v i d e n c e ,
the aggravating circumstances that

all

10

11
12
13

Mr. Thomp son t a l k e d a b o u t .

T h a t i s their j o b .
If

T h e i r j o b i s to seek the death p e n a l t y .
they didn't their job. do t h a t ,

t h e y w o u l d n ' t be d o i n g

14 15

A s defense counsel

f o r Mr. Dorsey,

16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

our j o b i s to, i n the guilt phase, i s put o n
e v i d e n c e of innocence o r p u t on e v i d e n c e t h a t guilt; i n other In the

challenges the evidence of

words,

t o raise a reasonable doubt.

p e n a l t y phase, evidence, sentence.

o u r j o b i s t o p u t on m i t i g a t i n g

evidence t h a t j u s t i f i e s a l i f e And t h a t i s o u r j o b a n d w e a r e
that

going t o do t h a t i f

s h o u l d come a b o u t .

Your j o b i n t h i s k i n d o f g o i n g t o be u n i q u e .

case i s

Unlike any o t h e r case,

26 27 28 29

t h i s i s t h e only kind of

case where you c o u l d
but ordinarily

p o s s i b l y decide t h e s e n t e n c e ,

y o u r j o b w o u l d be t o f i n d o u t w h a t ' s b e e n proved,
has
the

State proven

g u i l t beyond a And i n t h e found

30
31

reasonable doubt o r have they not.
rare

case where t h e d e f e n d a n t has been
f i r s t degree murder,

32
I

g u i l t y of

your j o b would

1
2

t h e n b e t o d e c i d e the s e n t e n c e . T h e r e are o n l y t w o o f f e n s e s i n t h e s t a t e w h e r e you c a n be - - w h e r e s o m e b o d y c a n

3

be exposed to the death penalty.
d e g r e e m u r d e r - - by t h e way, what t h e o t h e r one is? A.

One is first

d o e s a n y o n e know

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) A g g r a v a t e d r a p e . T h a t i s n o longer t h e case. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) O k a y . But t h e r e i s o n e m o r e l e f t .
This is

Q.
9
10

A. Q.

11
12

o n e o f t h o s e t h a t ' s k i n d o f in t h e b a c k o f t h e
book.

13

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No response.)

14
15

A.
A.

( B y Ms. Thornton)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

(By Ms. Edwards) (No response.) (By Mr. Walker) (By M s . Hicks) (No response.) (No response.)

16

A.
A.

17
18

A.
A.

'(By Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o response.) (By Mr. Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

19 20 21

A. A. A.
A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Mr. Jefferson) (No response.) ( B y M s . Clay) (No response.)

22
23 24
25

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) ( N o response.) Treason. A l t h o u g h I c a n ' t imagine.

Q.

h o w you c o u l d c o m m i t t r e a s o n a g a i n s t t h e State. Next, I want t o t a l k a b o u t t h e c a p i t a l t r i a l procedure. analogy of two bridges. t h a t n e e d t o b e crossed. the regular trial.
I l i k e to u s e t h e

26 27

28
29

We have two bridges The first bridge is

30
31 32

When I s a y " r e g u l a r

trial,'' b e c a u s e i t ' s j u s t like any t r i a l for a

a
[) I

-rl

k

.

a,
1-I

a
H

a ,
L! 3

e
C

a,

c,

a
C

c

a,

E
a ,
a ,

a
4

4

h

.

m

s-4

a,
h
k 7
-n

a a
C 0

m
c ,
-4

c,
4
-rl

a
4J

a ,

-4 k Q

7

cn
s-4
-4

bl

a
a, 3

cn
0
-rl

w w

c,
h

u

0

c,
a ,

a,

cn

a ,

tn

c
a , 3

a

1-I 0

E
-4

k

u

a ,
L ! 0

c

! 4

c
a

a ,

c ,

L !

cn
m
0

a,
G

c,

a, c ,

a,
G

c ,
-4

u
0

L l

3 a,
Q

E E
0

c,
1

u
I

I

degree murder.

Then we would have a s e c o n d

E3

t r i a l , w e would come to the second b r i d g e known a s the penalty phase. And the s a m e jury

t h a t decided guilt o r innocence would decide the appropriate sentence.

So there is a

possibility o f two trials, only o n e j u r y
,

I ua

selection process, and t h a t ' s why w e a r e discussing the death penalty now.

So if you're wondering why are w e

discussing this, why are we putting the cart
before t h e horse,
t h i s i s why.

It's k i n d of

like the Boy Scout motto. Boy Scout motto? A.
Q.
A.

Who k n o w s the

(By Mr. Natale) Be prepared.
Mr.

Natale.

(By Mr. N a t a l e ) B e prepared. Be prepared. (By Mr. Natale) I w a s n ' t a Boy Scout.

Q.
A.

Q.

So you have to b e prepared even f o r
And the important thing I

the eventuality.

want to emphasize at this p o i n t i s t h a t the mere fact that we are discussing the possibility of the death penalty d o e s n ' t mean that Mr. Dorsey i s necessarily g u i l t y o f a n y crime, much less first degree murder. Does everybody understand t h a t ? anybody have any questions at t h i s p o i n t ? A. A. A. A. A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.) Does

(By Ms. Thornton) (No response.) (By Ms. Edwards) (By Mr. Walker) (By M s . Hicks) (No response.) (No response.) ( N o response.)
196

1

A.
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

2

3
4

A.
A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
(By
M r .

Jefferson)

( N o

response.)

5
6

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o response.) Good. T h e n I'll move o n .

A.

7

Q.

8
9

N o w , we a r e s t i l l t a l k i n g a b o u t t h e
capital t r i a l procedure.

I

If

--

and

t h i s is a

10

b i g ,'if" - - the penalty p h a s e i s r e a c h e d , i t means certain things have happened. It means

I

11
12

you d i d c o n v i c t M r . Dorsey o f f i r s t d e g r e e

13
14
15
16

murder.

And a g a i n we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t i n
And if y o u d i d

h y p o t h e t i c a l right now, " i f . "

c o n v i c t h i m of f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r , i t also means that this is not a case where he did it in s e l f - d e f e n s e . M r . N a t a l e , if h e c o m m i t t e d a m u r d e r in s e l f - d e f e n s e , i t would what?

I

17 18
19

20 21
22
23

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No response.)

Q.
A.

W h a t s h o u l d the v e r d i c t b e ? ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) If i t ' s s e l f - d e f e n s e ,

not guilty.

24 25
26

Q.

T h a t ' s right. So i t ' s n o t a c a s e It's not a

w h e r e h e k i l l e d in self- defense.

c a s e w h e r e h e w a s legally i n t o x i c a t e d o r i n s a n e b e c a u s e if h e w a s i n s a n e , h e w o u l d b e n o t g u i l t y b y reason of i n s a n i t y . If he was

27 28
29 30
31

i n t o x i c a t e d , it might b e a m a n s l a u g h t e r o r s e c o n d d e g r e e , or h e k i l l e d in t h e h e a t o f blood due to provocation. Ms. D i x o n , if s o m e o n e k i l l s i n t h e
197

32

59i3

1

h e a t o f b l o o d o f p r o v o c a t i o n , w h a t s h o u l d the verdict be?

2
3
4

Do you h a v e any i d e a ?

A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Manslaughter. T h a t ' s right, i t w o u l d b e a

Q.

5
6

manslaughter. And it's not a case where it a c c i d e n t a l o r h e d i d n ' t mean it.
w a s

I f we h a v e

r e a c h e d 'the penalty p h a s e , i t i s b e c a u s e i t i s a c a s e where Mr. Dorsey m e a n t t o k i l l o r

10
11 12

inflict great b o d i l y harm.

In the law, we
He m e a n t to

c a l l t h a t an i n t e n t i o n a l killing. do it.

13

D o e s a n y b o d y h a v e any q u e s t i o n s a b o u t

14
15
16
17

that?
A. A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

(By Ms. Thornton) (No response.) (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.) (By Mr. Walker) (By M s . Hicks) (By Ms. Dixon) (No response.)

A. A.

.18

19 20

A.
A.

(No response.)
(No response.)

21
22

A. A. A.
A. A.

(By Mr. W a l t e r s )

(No response.)

( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Ms. Clay) (No response.) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) Does everybody understand it? If

23
24

25 26
27 28 29 30
31

Q.

w o u l d you a n s w e r , yes.

The court reporter has

t r o u b l e recording head nods.
A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y 'Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

A.
A.

32
,

A.

_-.
l, .

-.
I

i

A. A.

( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

A.
4
A.

(By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes
(BY M S .
Snelling) Yes

I

5
6

A.
A.

( B y Mr. J,efferson) Yes. ( B y M s . Clay) Y e s ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. In t h e future we m i g h t h a v e b e t t e r

7
8

A.

Q.

9
10
11
12

d e v i c e s , b u t f o r now, y o u h a v e t o s p e a k u p .
Is there anyone who doesn't understand this?
A.
A.
( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

I
I

(By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) (No response.)

13
14

A.
A.
A. A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

15 16

( B y M s . H i c k s ) ( N o response.) (By Ms. Dixon) (No response.) (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

17
18

A.
A.

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By M r . T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

19 20

A.
A.

21
22 23 24 25 26

A.

Q.
this? A.

Is t h e r e a n y o n e w h o d i s a g r e e s w i t h

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No. T h a n k you. A t a penalty p h a s e , y o u r t a s k w o u l d

Q.

27 28
29 30 31 32

b e t o d e c i d e w h a t the a p p r o p r i a t e s e n t e n c e is. A n d a g a i n , we are t a l k i n g a b o u t a t e r r i b l e c r i m e , t h e m o s t t e r r i b l e c r i m e p o s s i b l e , the i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g o f a human b e i n g d u r i n g a robbery, a rape, a kidnapping, a major felony, e s s e n t i a l l y , or where he meant t o k i l l m o r e

than o n e p e r s o n .

It doesn't get any worse.

Is t h e r e a n y o n e h e r e t h a t t h i n k s that
t h e r e i s s u c h a thing as a g o o d m u r d e r ?

A.
A.
A. A.

(By Mr. Natale) (No response.)
( B y Ms. Thornton)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r )

(No response.)

A.
A.
A. A.
A.
A.

(By Ms. H i c k s ) (No response.)
(By Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By Mr. Walters)

(No response.)

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
( B y Ms.

Clay)

(No response.)

A.

( B y M r . T h o m a s ) (No response.)
Is t h e r e a n y o n e h e r e w h o d o e s n ' t

Q.

think that all murders are terrible? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e )
(No response.)

A. A.
A. A. A. A.
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r )
( N o response.)

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s )
(No r e s p o n s e . )

(By M s . S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o response.) (By Ms. Clay) (No response.) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) Okay. A n d your t a s k w o u l d b e t o

A.

A. A.

Q.

c h o o s e b e t w e e n t h e t w o s e v e r e s t p e n a l t i e s the law has to offer. I t c o m e s from o u r

legislature and our legislature, our representatives, decided that there should be
200

5916

1

t w o p o s s i b l e penalties.
. .

One is life

2
3
4

,

i m p r i s o n m e n t a t hard l a b o r w i t h o u t t h e b e n e f i t

o f p a r o l e , o r , a s Mr. T h o m p s o n h a s s a i d ,
without the possibility of parole which means

5
6
7

t h e person w o u l d d i e

in prison.

So that's

l i f e , h a r d l a b o r , u n t i l t h e p e r s o n essentially dies. W e c a n a g r e e on that. The other option is death, and in t h i s s t a t e , i t ' s by l e t h a l i n j e c t i o n . So w e

.8

9
10

h a v e t h e t w o s e v e r e s t p e n a l t i e s f o r t h e worst crime. A n d the l a w r e q u i r e s y o u i n d e t e r m i n i n g this t o c o n s i d e r b o t h a g g r a v a t i n g

11

12
13

14
15
16
17

circumstances and mitigating circumstances.
B e c a u s e of t h a t , you will hear, s h o u l d you h a v e t h e penalty p h a s e , t h e p r e s e n t a t i o n of both aggravating circumstances and mitigating circumstances. The State will present the

18
19
20
21
22
23 24 25

aggravating circumstances, and the defense will present mitigating circumstances. And you a l r e a d y h a v e h e a r d w h a t s o m e o f them are by e x a m p l e , a l t h o u g h y o u haven't heard a definition of those. A n d the
(

r e a s o n f o r t h a t is, they h e l p y o u d i s t i n g u i s h t h e m o s t s e v e r e from the l e a s t s e v e r e m u r d e r . A g a i n , a l l m u r d e r s are t e r r i b l e , we a l l a g r e e on t h a t , right? A.
A.

26
27 28 29

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

30
31

A. A. A.

32

I

1
2

A.
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) Yes.
(By Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

3
4

A.
A.

(By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.
( B y Mr.

Jefferson) Yes.

5

A.

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. ( B y Mr. Thomas). Yes. B u t e v e n a m o n g the t e r r i b l e c r i m e s ,

6 7

A.

Q.

8
9

some a r e w o r s e than others. C a n w e a l l a g r e e
on t h a t ?

10

A. A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

11

12

A.

13
14
15

A.
A.
A.

(By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.
( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes. ( B y Ms. S n e l 1 i n g ) Y e s . ( B y M r . Jefferson) Yes.

16
17
18

A. A. A.

19
20

A.
A.

(By Ms. Clay) Yes.
(By Mr.
Thomas) Y e s .

21

Q.

S o we have t o have some mechanism

to

22 23 24

d i s t i n g u i s h b e t w e e n them; o t h e r w i s e , e i t h e r e v e r y b o d y w o u l d g e t the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r everybody would get life imprisonment. We

25

h a v e t o h a v e s o m e way o f d i f f e r e n t i a t i n g t h e m . D o a l l of y o u a g r e e with t h a t ?
A.
A.

26
27
28 29

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. ( B y M s . Hicks) Yes. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

A. A. A.
A.

30
31

32

1
2
3

A.
A.
A. A. A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes. (By Ms. Snelling) Y e s . ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. Clay) Yes. (By M r . T h o m a s ) Y e s .

4

5 6
7

Q.

So what is an aggravating
I think the b e s t d e f i n i t i o n i s

circumstance?

8

simply a factor that makes the offense more severe.

9

A mitigating factor, which would be
11
12
13

the f l i p s i d e of the coin, w o u l d be a factor t h a t m a k e s t h e o f f e n s e what?

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) L e s s s e v e r e .

14
15

A.
A.

(By Ms. Thornton) Less.
( B y Ms. Edwards) Less severe.

16

A.
A.

(By Mr. Walker) Less severe.
( B y M s . Hicks) L e s s s e v e r e .

17

18

A.
A.

(By M s . D i x o n ) L e s s s e v e r e . ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) L e s s s e v e r e . (By Ms. Snelling) Less severe. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) L e s s s e v e r e . (By M s . C l a y ) L e s s s e v e r e . (By M r . T h o m a s ) L e s s s e v e r e . It's still terrible, but it's less And the most i m p o r t a n t t h i n g y o u n e e d

19 20 21
22 23

A. A. A. A.

24 25

Q.
severe.

26
27 28

t o r e m e m b e r a b o u t it i s , I think M r . T h o m p s Q n e x p l a i n e d i t , they a r e n o t d e f e n s e s and- t h e y a r e n o t - - what? - - e x c u s e s . excuses. They are not

29 30
31 32

They don't excuse conduct. C a n anybody t h i n k of an e x a m p l e of

an a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e ?

I ' l l s t a r t with

I

y o u , M r . Walker.

A. 2
can't.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t o f f h a n d , I

3
4

Q.
A.

Ms. C l a y .
(By Ms. Clay) T h a t makes i t more

severe?

6
7

Q.
A.

Yeah. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I g u e s s if, I d o n ' t

8
9

k n o w , if h e k i l l e d like t w e n t y p e o p l e ? I d o n ' t
know.

-10

Q.
A.

The number of people. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah. T h a t ' s one.
Mr. Natale, w e

11

Q.
13

will start o n your

1 4

s i d e , g o b a c k t o y o u r side. A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) P r o b a b l y t h e m e t h o d

15

16
17
18 19

in w h i c h an i n d i v i d u a l was k i l l e d .

Q.
A.

W h e n you s a y the " m e t h o d " - (By M r . N a t a l e ) W a s t h e r e t o r t u r e

i n v o l v e d , maybe p r o l o n g e d agony.

20
2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29'

Q.

O k a y . So the a m o u n t o f s u f f e r i n g t h a t

was c a u s e d t o the victim, whether t h e r e w a s t o r t u r e or the numbers. T h o s e a r e very g o o d

aggravating circumstances, by the way.
I t h i n k , s o m e b o d y u s e d the w o r d

" h e i n o u s . " W a s t h a t you, Mr. W a l t e r s ? A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes. And t h a t ' s a g o o d t e r m . W a s t h e r e torture. Was it

Q.
heinous.

Was there

p r o l o n g e d s u f f e r i n g involved. W e r e t h e r e multiple victims involved. aggravating circumstance. C a n anybody think o f any m i t i g a t i n g Those are good

30
3 1 32

1

circumstances?

2

A.

( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) If i t w a s w h a t t h e

p r o s e c u t i o n g a v e where it might h a v e b e e n a n

eighteen-year-old who h a d been in a box all
his l i f e a n d d i d n ' t k n o w t h e d i f f e r e n c e
b e t w e e n r i g h t a n d wrong.
7

Q.

Not k n o w i n g the d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n

8
9

r i g h t a n d w r o n g . Of c o u r s e , i f s o m e b o d y d i d n ' t fully know the d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n

right a n d

10

wrong, I think t h a t might c o m e u n d e r i n s a n i t y , but that was kind of an extreme example. But l e t me make it a l i t t l e b i t l e s s

11
12

13
14
15 16
17 18

extreme. Let's say instead of the parent
p u t t i n g him in this p h y s i c a l box, t h e p a r e n t s p u t h i m in an e m o t i o n a l b o x , t h r o u g h n e g l e c t , through abuse, being a terrible role model, t e a c h i n g him a l i f e of c r i m e , t e a c h i n g h i m t o t a k e a d v a n t a g e of o t h e r p e o p l e , t e a c h i n g h i m n o t t o h a v e e m p a t h y f o r others. Could you

19
20

consider those kinds of less physical things, b u t very r e a l t h i n g s t o p e o p l e a s a m i t i g a t i n g circumstance? The emotional b o x .

21
22 23 24 25

Ms. Clay. A.

( B y M s . C l a y ) O h , I c a n see t h a t

because emotional abuse is just as damaging as physical abusing.

26
27 28

Q.

So e m o t i o n a l d a m a g e w o u l d b e a n

important mitigating circumstance to y o u ?
A.

29

( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes. Would that be important to anyone

30
3 1

Q.
else?

32

Mr. Walker, would that be important

b'l
a,
Q
4

rn
H

C .i t

Ll
-rl

.U

d d
0

h

m a ,
3
0

C

Q

r n

c

* a , a , c

rb 5

a , @
k

m
C
0
Ll

x

c
0

a r d

7
3

m
C

a, L4

m
0 c , C

e
0 k

O

a
0

r d m ?

L)

5
D-l a , G c ,

0 Ll

7

c , c ,
-rl

rn

h
m

. r n
c r d rd
a , c ,

.

a c ,
c
H

c

c
-rl

c,
C
-rl

0

,

L4 a,

B r n
7
n

cl
rl

a ,c, 7 rb c Q c , c
0

rn
c ,
0

c

a a
0 0

0

4

x

rn

u

-n

k

B

a
k

-

a ,
I l c -4
4

r n 7
L l o

m
rd

-4

E c
rn

x
.

u r n
-rl

a U

,

k Q

4

r d h

3
*

c,
-ri

c

4

w .
0

-

cn

r d r n 3 -rl *
' 0 O k x

m
L ! rb

U

z
a
v

k

r

a
rd

d

E' 7
G
I

a

,
C 0 a,

h

U
I

Q

3
r d

E

rd
4 J - I

a
rd

.

-

a
r

h

n

o
Lcr

E

a , h

z
a
k

cn

c
a
E
0

Ll

C

a

4

u

r

x

n

G

u

r

x

n

a , 3
-4

x
c
0

h

m a - r ai ah s h

v

v

e
a
a

4

0
o l

m E . a ,

w
I

c.
7 O

C

.
4 E -

a
r

0
co
l 0

.
1

a,
k 3
0

e

-ri

c
0

h
0

4

C

.

h c ,

c
.c
3

c,
c ,
a , 3

A

4

4
Q
0

c

a , &

c
a

rd a,

c ,

-4

Ll

c,

H

h

E

a

Q.

Do they m a k e g o o d d e c i s i o n s ?

Do they

exercise good judgment? A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) At f i r s t , p r o b a b l y n o t ,

but since they have a stable home, i t ' s gotten
5
~

1
1

better.

Q.

S o m e p e o p l e w h o g r o w u p in a v e r y b a d

e n v i r o n m e n t can b e s a v e d i f t h e y l a t e r g e t stability and gets someone who cares?

I

9
10
11 12

A.
A.

(By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
( B y Mr. Jefferson)

I

It w o u l d be r i g h t

t h e r e in the back o f your heed i f y o u w a s b r o u g h t u p l i k e that.

I

13
14

Q.
A.

Especially at a young age?
( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

I

15

Q.

I think p s y c h o l o g i s t s c a l l t h o s e the

I

I

16
17 18 19
20

f o r m a t i v e y e a r s , that the worst a b u s e i s t h e a b u s e t h a t o n e g e t s a t the f o r m a t i v e y e a r s ; i s t h a t w h a t you a r e r e f e r r i n g t o ? A. ( B y M r . Jefferson) Yes. You think i t ' s h a r d t o u n d o s o m e o f

I
I

Q.

21
22 23 24 25

that kind of abuse? A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I don't know

p e r s o n a l l y , but I've h e a r d o f it.

Q.

I hope not personally.

Of course,

a n o t h e r k i n d o f abuse i s g r o w i n g in a n a r e a of trauma, experiencing a lot of trauma in your l i f e , e s p e c i a l l y , again, a t t h e f o r m a t i v e years. Mr. N a t a l e , c o u l d y o u c o n s i d e r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , emotional a b u s e , t r a u m a , e s p e c i a l l y a t h e f o r m a t i v e y e a r s of a c h i l d ? A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) In t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?

26
27
28

29

30 31
32

Q.

L e t me ask another question.

Do y o u

t h i n k t h a t -- w e l l , example of

l e t m e g i v e you a n o t h e r

an aggravating and a m i t i g a t i n g the t h e same

circumstance, a n d this touches upon
question of, c a n two p e o p l e c o m m i t
e x a c t crime,
7

but because of

t h e i r backgrounds
And

be e n t i t l e d t o be t r e a t e d d i f f e r e n t l y .

8

before

I g i v e you

t h a t q u e s t i o n i n a vacuum,

9
10
11
12

let me give you a n example.
neighborhood,

Suppose in your
a

t h e r e i s t h i s wonderful dog,

I
I

g o l d e n Lab - - e v e r y b o d y l o v e s L a b s , a n d you

r i g h t ? --

see a t w e l v e - y e a r - o l d o r a

13
14

t h i r t e e n - y e a r - o l d neighborhood boy go o v e r t o
the

dog a n d kick t h e

dog v e r y

hard

i n

the

15

ribs.

You w o u l d t h i n k t h a t ' s t e r r i b l e ,

right?

16
17
18 19 20

Would a l l o f
A.

you want t o p u n i s h t h a t b o y ?
Natale) Yes.

(By M r . (By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M r .

A.
A.
A.

T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
Edwards)

Yes.

Walker) Hicks)

Yes. Yes.

21
22 23 24 25

A.
A. A.
A. A.

Dixon)

Yes.

Walters) Y e s .

Snelling) Yes. Jefferson) C l a y ) Yes. Thomas) Y e s . w a n t t o know a b o u t
Yes.

26
27 28 29

A.
A.

Q.

What w o u l d you

E e f o r e d e c i d i n g on t h e p u n i s h m e n t ?
Ms.
A.

30
31 32

Hicks.
Hicks)

(By M s .
What

W e l l ,

what

w a s going

on a t home.

would c a u s e h i m t o want t o

1
2

~

do that.

Q.

A l l right.

Ms. D i x o n , what w o u l d you

3
4

w a n t t o know?.
A.

(By Ms. D i x o n )

Why

did

he

k i c k

the

5
6

dog.

Q.
d i d it?

You would b o t h want t o k n o w why h e

7

8
9

A.
A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes. (By M s .
H i c k s )

Yes.

10

Q.
A.
A.

W h a t a b o u t t h e rest o f y o u ? ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) T h e sam. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) T h e s a m .

11
12

13
14
15

A.
A.
A.

(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) The s a m e .
(By Mr. Walker) Same. (By Mr. Walters) The same. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) T h e same. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) T h e s a m e . ( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h e s a m e . (By Mr. Thomas) The same. M r . Walters, w o u l d i t m a k e a

16
17

A.
A. A. A.

18 19 20 21 22 23
24

Q.

d i f f e r e n c e i f you knew the b o y d i d i t t o o t h e r animals because he enjoyed watching animals s u f f e r ; h e d i d it for p l e a s u r e ?
A.

( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) L e t ' s j u s t s a y if i t

25 26
27 28

was my son and he kicked a dog and I found out why a n d the c i r c u m s t a n c e s w e r e s o m e t h i n g t h a t
I h a d t a u g h t h i m wrong o r s o m e t h i n g , I w o u l d

h a v e t o - - the punishment I g a v e h i m w o u l d b e d e p e n d e n t u p o n why he h a d t h a t a c t i o n .

29 30 31 32

Q.

Mr. S n e l l i n g , if the b o y d i d i t

b e c a u s e h e was j u s t m e a n a n d s a d i s t i c , h e d i d it for pleasure.
210

I

A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Me? I ' m s o r r y , Mr. J e f f e r s o n .

Q.

I misread

the chart.

Us l a w y e r s m a k e l o t s o f m i s t a k e s .

A.
5
question

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) W h a t w a s t h e
again?

6
7
8
'

Q.

The b o y k i c k i n g the d o g , y o u f o u n d

o u t t h a t h e d i d it b e c a u s e h e e n j o y e d i n f l i c t i n g p a i n on dogs, h u r t i n g a n i m a l s , would your punishment tend to be more severe?

9

10
11
12
13 14
15

A.

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) L i k e what he s a i d ,

i t all depends on who raised the child or if I
r a i s e d the c h i l d o r what the s i t u a t i o n i s about the individual.

Q.

So you w o u l d want t o k n o w t h e

situation?

16

A.

( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yeah, yeah.

YOU

17
18

k n o w , w h a t ' s going on. that happened - -

Was there something

19
20

Q.

You t o o k away m y t h u n d e r b e c a u s e t h e

o t h e r s i d e o f the c o i n w a s , c o m p a r e i t t o t h e b o y w h o was d i s t r a u g h t a n d u p s e t b e c a u s e h i s father l e f t town b e c a u s e h i s m o t h e r a n d dad are separating. Because he's upset, he just

21
22 23 24

kicked the f i r s t ' t h i n g that came to him. W o u l d y o u a g r e e we s h o u l d n ' t p u n i s h t h e m b o t h t h e s a m e way? with that?
A.
I s there a n y b o d y t h a t d i s a g r e e s

25 26
27
28

(By Mr. Natale)

(No response.)

29

A. A.
A. A.

(By Ms. Thornton) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) (By Mr. Walker)

(No response.)
(No response.)

30
31
32

(No response.)

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A.
A. A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) (By M r . Walters) ( B y Ms. Snelling)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

(No response.)

A.
5
6
7

( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A.
A.

(By Ms. Clay) (No r e s p o n s e . )
(By Mr. T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) A n d the d o g i s j u s t a s i n j u r e d , So a mitigating c i r c u m s t a n c e d o e s n ' t

Q.
right?

a
9

e x c u s e t h e offense. T h a t b o y i s n o t e x c u s e d

10
11
12
13

b e c a u s e h e was u p s e t b e c a u s e h i s p a r e n t s w e r e
separating.

But what i t d o e s d o , i t j u s t i f i e s
Would y o u a l l a g r e e

a l e s s s e v e r e punishment. with t h a t c o n c e p t ?

14
15

A.
A.
A.

(By M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.
(By M s .

Thornton) Y e s .
Y e s .

16

(By

Ms. E d w a r d s )

17

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.
On the o t h e r h a n d , t h e b o y w h o k i c k e d

ia
19

A.

A.
A.

20 2 1 22
23

A. A.
A.
A.

24
25

Q.

26
27

t h e d o g a n d injured t h e d o g o u t o f p l e a s u r e s h o u l d p r o b a b l y get a more s e v e r e s e n t e n c e because that would be an aggravating circumstance. E v e n t h o u g h the d o g i s j u s t a s

28 29

30
3 1 32

i n j u r e d , i t s t i l l m a k e s the o f f e n s e w o r s e ; would you agree?
A.

(By M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

A. A.
A. A.

(By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
Edwards)

Yes.

W a l k e r ) Yes. H i c k s ) Yes.

A.
A.
A.
A.

( B y Ms, D i x o n ) Y e s .
( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y e s .
(By M s . (By M r . (By M s .
(By M r .

S n e l l i n g ) Yes. Jefferson) C l a y ) Yes.
Thomas)

Yes

A.
A.

Y e s .

Q.

B e c a u s e o f w h a t was i n s i d e t h e b o y

who d i d i t . Now,

we are back i n the procedure.

A t t h e penalty p h a s e , t h e r e a r e t h r e e p o s s i b l e
outcomes. death.

One i s a u n a n i m o u s v e r d i c t o f
o f d e a t h h a s t o be a unanimous v e r d i c t of
that

A verdict

unanimous.

Two,

life

imprisonment.

Again,

i s a t hard l a b o r
W use the e

without the p o s s i b i l i t y of parole.

word " b e n e f i t o f " m e a n s t h e same t h i n g a s possibility. disagree.
I believe M r .

And t h r e e ,

an agreement t O

Thompson t o u c h e d upon for life,
the
I

that.

If

there i s one holdout
that
the

l a w provides

sentence is life. two,

t h i n k he u s e d t h e e x a m p l e of
e i t h e r way,

one o r more, jury, a

we call that a deadlock
I

hu.ng j u r y . Deadlock,
I

don't

l i k e

t h e word

''hung."

don't

know why w e h a v e w o r d s t h a t But it j u s t

means death,

Irhung" a n d "dead."
agree.

means you c a n ' t
of

When y o u h a v e t h a t k i n d
that the

situation,

the

l a w provides

I

s e n t e n c e i s life imprisonment. You m i g h t s a y t h a t ' s the d e f a u l t position.

So t o i m p o s e d e a t h , t h e l a w r e q u i r e s ,
a s Mr. T h o m p s o n c o r r e c t l y p o i n t e d o u t , y o u

5
6
7

'must find at least one aggravating
circumstance proven b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t .
Now, y o u s a w s o m e o f t h e a g g r a v a t i n g circumstances. Does anybody remember what the It's

8

9

o f f e n s e of f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r i n v o l v e d ?

10
11

a killing p l u s s o m e t h i n g ?

It's a killing plus

during a robbery, a kidnapping, burglary, or i t w.as a k i l l i n g w h e r e they i n t e n d e d t o k i l l m o r e t h a n o n e person. Well, t h e a g g r a v a t i n g

12
13

14
15

circumstances look pretty similar, don't they?
So

if M r . D o r s e y h a s b e e n f o u n d o f

16
17

g u i l t y f i r s t d e g r e e murder, g u e s s w h a t ' s automatically been proven? An a g g r a v a t i n g

18

c i r c u m s t a n c e . So t h a t first r e q u i r e m e n t i s really a no-brainer. much a u t o m a t i c . That would be pretty

19
20 21
22

B u t o n c e an a g g r a v a t i n g

circumstance is proven, it doesn't mean you must impose a death penalty. must. There is no

23
24 25 26

T h e r e i s n e v e r any m u s t for t h e d e a t h

penalty. 'As a m a t t e r o f f a c t , t h e r e i s a b s o l u t e l y n o s e t o f c i r c u m s t a n c e s in t h e law t h a t e v e r , e v e r r e q u i r e s t h e i m p o s i t i o n of death.
A.

27
28
29

D o e s everybody u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ? ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. .
214

30
31
32

A.
A. A.

5938

2
..

3

4
5.

6
7

8
9

10
11

12

13
14
15

16
17
18

19
20

21
22

23
24 25

26
27

28
29

30
I

31

215

1
2
3

A. A.
A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) No. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) No.

4
5

A.
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) No.
( B y Mr. Walters) No.

6

A. A.
A.

( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) No. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No. ( B y M s . C l a y ) No.

7 8

9
10

A.

(By Mr. T h o m a s ) No.
O k a y . N o w , to i m p o s e a l i f e s e n t e n c e Again, I

Q.

11

the law requires n o pre-conditions.

12
13
14
15

guess t h a t ' s b e c a u s e i t ' s a d e f a u l t
position - - but I can't speak for the legislature - - which means, you are not required to find more mitigation than aggravation. It is not about counting.

16
17

Sometimes you can have one mitigating circumstance that's very powerful o r you can h a v e a l o t of l i t t l e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s , or you can have an aggravating circumstance that's very compelling. counting. Does everybody understand that? everybody understand the concept here? Does

18 19 20 21 22
23

So i t ' s n o t a b o u t

24 25
26

A. A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s . (By Ms. Edwards) Yes. (By Mr. Walker) Yes. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Y e s . (By Ms. Dixon) Yes. (By Mr. Walters) Yes. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

27
28 29 30
31 32

A.
A.

A. A. A.
A.

A. A.

( B y Mr. 'Jefferson) Yes. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes. T h a n k you.
that.

A.

Q.

The court reporter

appreciates

You a r e n o t r e q u i r e d t o f i n d t h a t mitigation outweighs aggravation. Again, each And

o f y o u d e c i d e what t o you i s m i t i g a t i n g . actually, you're not required to find any
mitigation whatsoever.
As

Mr.

Thompson

c o r r e c t l y p o i n t e d out, you may i m p o s e l i f e f o r a n y r e a s o n a t a l l , e v e n f o r mercy a l o n e .

Does 'everybody understand that?

A.
A.
A.
A.

(By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.
( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes. (By M r . Walters) Y e s . ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes. Does anybody disagree with it? Only

A. A.
A.

A. A. A.
A.

Q.

t h e d i s a g r e e r s n e e d t o answer.
A.

(By Mr. Natale)

(No response.)

A.
A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) (By Ms. Edwards) ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.)
(No response.)
(No response.)

A.
A.
A.

( B y M s . D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
217

5 9-33

I
4

A.
A. A. A.

(By M r . W a l t e r s )

(No response.)

( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. Jefferson)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A.
Q.

(By Mr. Thomas) (No r e s p o n s e . )
No. G o o d .
And t h a t ' s why h e a s k e d y o u , i f we

8

p u t on e v i d e n c e o f mitigation, c o u l d y o u s t i l l l e a v e t h e o p t i o n of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t o p e n ,
and I b e l i e v e a l l o f you a n s w e r e d t h a t w a s

9
10

11

yes; is that correct?

12

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Y e s .

13
14 15

A.
A. A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes. I t i s l i k e choir p r a c t i c e .
You a r e a

16
17

A.
A. A. A.

18
19

20
21 22 23
24

A.
A. A.

Q.

g o o d group.

25

And for a life s e n t e n c e , u n a n i m i t y i s not required. Again, o n e p e r s o n w h o . h o l d s o u t

26
27 28 29 30 31 32

I

o r t w o p e o p l e or m o r e f o r a l i f e s e n t e n c e means that the life sentence will be imposed. A g a i n , any q u e s t i o n s a b o u t t h a t ? A. A. A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

.

-_

A. A. A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B Y MS. ~ i x o ' n )( N ~ O r e s p o n s e . )

A.
A.
A.

(By Mr. Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )
( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.) ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

.

.

A.

A.

Q.

I'll q u i c k l y g o t h r o u g h
I think

q u a l i f i c a t i o n s to serve on a jury.

Mr. T h o m p s o n c o v e r e d t h a t very, v e r y w e l l . T h e l a w s a y s you c a n n o t s e r v e i f y o u h a v e c o n s c i e n t i o u s s c r u p l e s a g a i n s t the d e a t h p e n a l t y , a n d you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y v o t e a g a i n s t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , r e g a r d l e s s o f the e v i d e n c e , or y o u r a t t i t u d e w o u l d p r e v e n t o r s u b s t a n t i a l l y i m p a i r you from m a k i n g a n i m p a r t i a l d e c i s i o n in a c c o r d a n c e w i t h y o u r i n s t r u c t i o n s or o a t h . The reason f o r t h a t i s , we w a n t people who can fairly consider both options. L i k e w i s e t h i s i s the o t h e r s i d e o f t h e c o i n , y o u c a n n o t s e r v e if you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y vote for death. the coin. I t ' s j u s t the o t h e r s i d e o f

A n d y o u have an a t t i t u d e t h a t would

prevent or substantially impair you from m a k i n g an i m p a r t i a l d e c i s i o n a n d so o n . In

o t h e r words, t o be fair, you c a n ' t b e o f s u c h a n e x t r e m e view t h a t you w o u l d e x c l u d e t h e , other possibility. that? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. Does everybody understand

A.
A. A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s . ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

A.
5
6 7 8

(By Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.
(By Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
( B y Mr. Walters) Yes. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

A.
A. A.
A.

9
10

A.
A.

(By M s . C l a y ) Yes.
(By Mr. T h o m a s ) Y e s .

11 12

Q.

I t h i n k t h i s i s the s a m e q u e s t i o n h e

a s k e d y o u . H e a s k e d you a b o u t y o u r f e e l i n g s o n t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , and I ' m n o t g o i n g t o a s k
the same question again, but

13
14

what

I will

do

is

15
16

a s k y o u a c o u p l e follow- up q u e s t i o n s , b u t f i r s t I want t o a s k you h o w you r a t e y o u r s e l f . Now, unlike t h e S t a t e ' s s c a l e t h a t h a s f i v e different ratings, mine has seven. s h o w you t h e m . O n e i s a l w a y s vote f o r d e a t h . Two is Let me

17 ia

19

21 22 23

lean s t r o n g l y i n favor of d e a t h .

Three is Four is

l e a n s l i g h t l y in the f a v o r o f d e a t h . neutral.

F i v e i s lean s l i g h t l y in f a v o r o f six is lean strongly in And s e v e n , a l w a y s

life imprisonment.
25 26 27 28
~

favor of life imprisonment. v o t e f o r l i f e imprisonment.
I

If you would, t a k e a f e w m o m e n t s t o l o o k a t that. You will n o t i c e t h a t i t i s v e r y It shows

29

30
31 32

1 1

s i m i l a r t o Mr. T h o m p s o n ' s s c a l e .

w h e t h e r y o u ' r e a l w a y s for d e a t h , a l w a y s f o r l i f e or w h e t h e r y o u ' r e n e u t r a l a n d l i k e M r . T h o m p s o n ' s scale s h o w s w h i c h way y o u l e a n ;
220

5936

a
4

h
,+I

c
w w
0

a,

-

.

-7
...

L !
0

c,

h
rd

c
3
A

c,

b, ’

c c

rn
-4

m
-

-4

-4

m
k 3 0

-

E

rd a ,
d

H

3 r d
3 0 4

o
h
-d
d

c
0

rn
-4

w

c
ri

.

c
0
-4

a 4
o a , , 3 w
-4
H
-

m

a , a,
,+I

c
cr

a ,

. a
k k 3 0
6 (
h

a
0

a,

m m
3

k a
r

3

u
m

-4 4J

t J
l r

l
Q

u

m
-4

3

rd

W
L !

C

a
c

o
C

c,
rn rd

.
a,

-3 0

c,
4

0 0

a
k rd

k Z a

G
N

a
,

O

k O

a,
k

3

c

Q
I

E

-

r

3 d

c
0

3

4 4 J

4

c
c
rd
b’,

0

u c r d o a ,
-4

c
2
-4

a ,

c,

c , ?
-4 0 C n h

c,
3

c
u
rd
! 4

u -4 z

x

. r n
rn

x

m

c
0

c
4J

a,

u

.. B
p:
3 0

4 J O l - u -4 k

m

a
m

a , -

3

X
-4

-4

a
r l

w r l
I
O

c,
r
Z

a

c
h
d

c
k

k

-4

0

a, w
Icl

m
d

-4

3:

n

k 0
6 (

c

l

a,
b
k

u

a
e

a,

s

7
0

c, c,
W k

c
c
rl

m

c

m h
k 3
0

W
3:

m

C
’ ,
-4

.

h

w w

a,
a,

B

a
-

c,

a
3

0

3

rd

z

0
$ 2 4 3

m
-4

c,
Ll

h k
Q)

c r d
-4

c

a

h

a

~
k

a

3

,
k

a

w
d

f

*’

-

a,

i

c
h

b

4

a

a
Z

,

r

m

n
4

t

0

v

v

k
ri

0 ,

. k a,

k
O r

C d

a
k

0
x

rd

c,
m

w

0

Icl

c
4

a , a , o o

k

W

c a ,
r d E

c

J

x c

b
k

c
a
h
v

c
B

m

k 3

.
r

m ,

3 0
3

m
3
0

a

a, i
,

c c
3

c , c , @ a ,

a,

c,
111 k
-4 -4

.
4

a
?

c

,

z

c

a

u
,

w
d

a , c
0 1 4
a ,

w
01

0

0

-4

L !

m

v )

- - t i

c ,
a ,

4

u

L ! ?
0

4J

O
c m

C
r

k
d

a

d

w

a,
C

h

* a

3
-4
lll

k
-4

E

a

..

1

A.

(By M s .
Mr.

C l a y ) Number

four,

neutral.

2
3
4

Q.
A.

Walker.

(By M r .

Walker)
the

I ' m t o r n between twol
I

a c t u a l l y because

fact

do b e l i e v e

i n the

death p e n a l t y .

I

also believe the evidence
So two

m u s t be s t r o n g e n o u g h t o s u p p o r t t h a t . and f i v e i s where I ' m actually at.

Q.
9

Both a two and a f i v e .

W have been e

doing t h i s for quite a

w h i l e , a n d that's first

10

t i m e w e ' v e e v e r h a d s o m e b o d y who w a s b o t h a
two and a f i v e .
A.

11 12

(By M r .

Walker)

Really?

Okay.

13
14
15

Q.

So you l e a n strongly in favor of

death, but lean slightly in f a v o r o f l i f e
imprisonment?
A.

16
17

(By M r .

Walker)

The e v i d e n c e i s g o i n g

t o s w a y i t o n e way o r t h e o t h e r . Q. When y o u s a y t h e "evidence,
'I

18

you want

19

i t t o be c e r t a i n .
A.

20

(By M r .

Walker)

That

is exactly

right
I

21
22
23 24

b e c a u s e t h e r e ' s g o t t o be n o d o u b t b e c a u s e

w o u l d n ' t have anybody have t h e death p e n a l t y p u t on them i f
t h e r e was a n y d o u b t .
The

e v i d e n c e h a s g o t t o be o n e h u n d r e d p e r c e n t .

25

Q.

U n d e r t h e l a w - - a n d t h i s i s t h e way

26
27

it i s i n e v e r y s t a t e i n t h e union -- i n o r d e r
t o convict

somebody,

the

evidence must prove

28

g u i l t beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt.
A.

29

,(By M r .

Walker)

That's

correct.

30
31
32

Q.

And y o u w o u l d m a k e t h a t d e t e r m i n a t i o n

along w i t h the other eleven jurors.
A.

(By M r .

Walker)

Right.
222

5938

1
2
3

Q.

Now, i f you f e l t t h a t t h e r e w a s n ' t

proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you shouldn't vote guilty, right?

4
5

A.
exactly.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) T h a t ' s c o r r e c t

6
7

Q.

So i f you reached t h a t p o i n t , t h a t ' s

b e c a u s e you h a v e p e r s o n a l l y m a d e a d e c i s i o n the p e r s o n i s g u i l t y b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e

8

9
10 11

doubt.

Would you then feel comfortable,

would

y o u t r u s t y o u r s e l f t o m a k e t h a t first decision, first of all?

12

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

13
14
15
16
17

Q.

H a v i n g made that first d e c i s i o n and
<

you reach a penalty phase, would that still be
an i s s u e y o u ?

A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No, t h e r e w o u l d b e n o

i s s u e if e v e r y t h i n g was right.

18 19

Q.

And you f e l t c o m f o r t a b l e i n r e n d e r i n g

t h e f i r s t verdict.
A.

20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y .
So o n c e y o u r e n d e r the f i r s t v e r d i c t ,

Q.

you w o u l d th'en b e a t w o ?

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. W h i c h m e a n s you c o u l d s t i l l

Q.

c o n s i d e r - - you l e a n s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of d e a t h , b u t y o u could s t i l l i m p o s e a l i f e sentence.
,

A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. Ms. E d w a r d s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

Q.

yourself on our scale?
A.

( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) I was l o o k i n g a t

four and five.

Q.

Four i s neutral a n d f i v e i s l e a n

s l i g h t l y in f a v o r of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t ?

A.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . )

Q.
A. Q.

So a f o u r p l u s o r f i v e m i n u s ?
( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) F o u r p l u s .
I have never understood the

d i f f e r e n c e a t s c h o o l a n d you e i t h e r h a d an " A " m i n u s or a
'IB"

p l u s ; weren't they t h e s a m e ? Still the " A "

Isn't it halfway between?

l o o k e d b e t t e r , didn't it?
A.
(By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
So between a f o u r a n d a f i v e w h i c h i s

Q.

n e u t r a l and lean s l i g h t l y in f a v o r of l i f e imprisonment?
A.
( B y Ms.

I

Edwards)

Y e s .

Q.

Ms. T h o r n t o n , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

y o u r s e l f on t h i s s c a l e ?
A.

(By Ms. Thornton) Two. For the record, t w o m e a n s t h a t y o u

Q.

b e l i e v e lean s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f d e a t h .
A.

I

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. M r . N a t a l e , h o w w o u l d you r a t e

Q.

y o u r s e l f on t h i s s c a l e ?
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) T w o . For the r e c o r d , t h a t m e a n s y o u l e a n

Q.

s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of d e a t h ?
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. Mr. T h o m a s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

Q.

yourself on this scale?
A.

I

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) S i x . For the r e c o r d , s i x m e a n s y o u l e a n

Q.

s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f life i m p r i s o n m e n t .
224

5948

M r . N a t a l e , b y the w a y , I f o r g o t to a s k y o u t h i s q u e s t i o n e a r l y on. r e g a r d i n g p r e t r i a l publicity. This is What do you

t h i n k of t h e p r e s s a n d t h e newspaper as f a r as

getting things right?
A.
it right. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) They d o n ' t a l w a y s g e t

9
10
11
12

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. W e r e n ' t you a reporter? ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

Q.
A.

13
14
15

Q.
beat?
A.

I t h i n k you u s e d t o d o the c o u r t h o u s e

( B y Mr. Natale) I t i n c l u d e d c o u r t s .

16 17

U s u a l l y , it was whoever was a v a i l a b l e t h a t d a y to cover it.

18
19 20

Q.

You're under oath. Did you u s u a l l y

get things right?
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) U s u a l l y , y e s .

21 22
23 24
25

Usually, when I didn't, somebody told me I was wrong.

Q.
A.
Q.

Y0.u heard it from o u r o f f i c e s ? ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) No. O k a y . You l e a n s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f

26 27 28 29

t h e d e a t h penalty; c a n y o u t e l l u s w h y ?
A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) S p e a k i n g t o m e ? Y o u , Mr. N a t a l e . ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes. Right now, I'm going to talk to

Q.
A.

30
31
I

Q.

e v e r y b o d y w h o rated t h e m s e l v e s a s a t w o .
A.

32

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I a m a p r o p o n e n t of
225

5943.

1

the death p e n a l t y .

I

think a

lot

of ,it h a s

to

2
3
4

d o w i t h what I h a v e s e e n in the n e w s a n d s e e n in covering t r i a l s a n d in current how

m u r d e r in s o m e c a s e s - - c e r t a i n m u r d e r s a f f e c t t h e f a m i l i e s of victims.
for

5
6

And you know, an eye
I

an

eye

is

something that

strongly

b e l i e v e i n , and you k n o w , t h a t ' s w h y I f e e l t h e way I d o a b o u t d e a t h p e n a l t y .

Q.
10
11

W h a t d o you think t h e b e s t a r g u m e n t

in f a v o r o f the d e a t h p e n a l t y i s ?
A.

(By Mr.

Natale)

Meaning,

more

like a

12
13

scenario?

Q.

No. T h e b e s t a r g u m e n t in t e r m s o f we

14
15

s h o u l d h a v e the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e

....

A.

( B y M r . Natale) B e c a u s e i t ' s a
I

16
17
18
19 20
2 1

d e t e r r e n t and I t h i n k - - w e l l , p e r s o n a l l y ,

think if i t was s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a p p e n e d t o m e or somebody who was close to me, a family m e m b e r o r somebody w h o w a s c l o s e t o m e , I w o u l d w a n t t o s e e the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n v o k e d .

Q.
A.

I think t h a t ' s c a l l e d r e t r i b u t i o n .

22 23
24
25

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right.
So we h a v e r e t r i b u t i o n a n d

Q.

deterrence.
Ms. Thornton, you also rated yourself

26
27 28 29 30 31
32

a two.
A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. Why d o you feel so s t r o n g l y ? (By Ms. Thornton) Because if you take

Q.
A.

t h a t l i f e , you k n o w , I t h i n k t h a t i t ' s c i r c u m s t a n c e s - - n o t c i r c u m s t a n c e s - - b u t the d e t a i l s , e v e r y t h i n g s h o w s t h a t it i s t r u e , a n d
226

5942

Ci'Y

1"7

I )
W$!l

*P dh

d w

1
2
3
4

I

think that
I don't

t h a t p e r s o n n e e d s t o be d e a d , know how t o e x p l a i n

fr lw

41 3
I $ $

too.

it e x a c t l y .

11w1

Q.
A.

You a r e d o i n g f i n e .
(By M s .

,&I

pwb

Thornton) That i f then

there

is a

5

doubt,

you

know,

t h a t ' s why I - - i t ' s n o t

l%J 89 If Jd
PJ

6 3
03
t,I;l

6
7

a real definite yes,

it's,

I

j u s t would need

t o know t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s a n d e v e r y t h i n g involved i n it.

8
9
10

Q.
as a two?

A l l

right.

Who e l s e r a t e d t h e m s e l v e s

11

Mr.
A.

Walker.

12

(By M r .

Walker)

( J u r o r nods head.)

13
1 4

Q.

Assuming t h a t t h e evidence has been
you lean

proven beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt, strongly i n favor of
A.

15

the death penalty.
Yes.

16
17

(By M r .

Walker)

Q.

C o u l d y o u t e l l why m e y o u a r e t h e death penalty? I t ' s l i k e t h e y was

18 19

strongly i n favor of
A.

(By M r .

Walker)

20
21

mentioning there, for a tooth.
If

an eye f o r an eye,

a tooth
their

a person takes a life,
I

22
23
24

l i f e needs t o be removed a s w e l l . s o r r y f o r t h e p e r s o n -- f o r b o t h of Don't done,
death

do f e e l them.

g e t m e wrong.
there's

But when

something i s imposed,
so

25
26
27

g o t t o be a p e n a l t y

i s death.
And

another thing I've when y o u

talked t o

28 29 30 31 32

other people about, somebody -- and I ' m

imprison

g o i n g t o s a y i t t h i s way

and I ' m g o i n g t o s t a n d on i t

-- w e are p a y i n g
It

f o r t h a t p e r s o n t o be i n c a r c e r a t e d . taxes, o u r money t h a t t h a t p e r s o n

is our

is staying
227

in jail.

We are f e e d i n g him o r w h a t e v e r , T h a t a g g r a v a t e s me t o a p o i n t ,

boarding him.

but there again, it goes.back, if they are g u i l t y o f d e a t h , then d e a t h n e e d s t o b e w i t h
5

t h e m .

6

Q.

You n e e d t o g e t the s a m e p u n i s h m e n t

7
8

that they inflicted.

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y .

9

Q.

Mr. Walker, l e t me go b a c k t o one o f
If we reach a p e n a l t y p h a s e , it's

10
11

our slides.

b e c a u s e it i s a f o r e g o n e c o n c l u s i o n t h a t Mr. D o r s e y k i l l e d without any d e f e n s e a n d t h a t he killed during a robbery, rape, kidnapping

12
13

14
15

or b u r g l a r y , a n d h e m e a n t t o d o i t .
A.

(By Mr. Walker) Exactly. C o u l d you c o n s i d e r i m p o s i n g a l i f e

16
17

Q.

s e n t e n c e for s o m e b o d y w h o d i d t h a t ?

18
19

A.

(By Mr. Walker) I f a p e r s o n t o o k If t h e y h a v e

another person's life, no.

20 21 22 23 24 25
26

k i l l e d a n d they h a v e s t o p p e d s o m e b o d y e l s e from l i v i n g , they d o n ' t n e e d t o l i v e .

Q.

C a n y o u think of any c i r c u m s t a n c e s

where you would impose a life sentence for a person like that?
A.

(By Mr. Walker) The only thing comes

t o m y m i n d r i g h t now i s i f t h e r e w a s a s c u f f l e or s o m e t h i n g o f t h a t n a t u r e t o w h e r e t h e t w o p e o p l e w e r e in a fight with o n e w e a p o n a n d i t went o f f . T h a t w o u l d b e the o n l y c i r c u m s t a n c e

27 28 29 30 31 32

I would, s e e d o i n g i t . If y o u t a k e a l i f e a n d l i k e m y s e l f if I were j u s t t o , s h o o t y o u o r d o s o m e t h i n g t o k i l l you, t h e n I d o n ' t d e s e r v e t o
228

5944

-.
j i . ,
. ?.

live.

I deserve that punishment.
Right.

Q.
that?
A.
Q.

Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t

( B y Mr. Walker) Yes, I do.
Ms.

Thornton, just so we u n d e r s t a n d

what we're talking about, we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a n intentional killing, where there i s n o defense, during a robbery, rape, k i d n a p p i n g o r

burglary.

In that particular s i t u a t i o n , c o u l d

y o u ever see yourself imposing a life sentence?

A.

( B y M s . Thornton) I d o n ' t t h i n k so.

If i t was intentional and the other p e r s o n ,
n o , I m e a n , he was just there, it's o k a y , and

t h e y k i l l e d them, I ' v e g o t a problem with

that.

Q.

Okay.

B u t for you, the only sentence

for you would be life - - I mean, the d e a t h penalty?
A.

(By M s . Thornton)

(Juror n o d s h e a d . )

Q.

Can you think o f a n y c i r c u m s t a n c e s

where you would impose a life s e n t e n c e f o r someone who intentionally k i l l s another during a robbery, rape, a kidnapping o r a b u r g l a r y ?
A.

(By Ms. Thornton) I t ' s k i n d o f like

the gentleman down there, you know, i f i t was a self-defense- type thing, then t h a t w o u l d make a difference, but . . . .

Q.

Other than killing in the

self-defense-type situation.
A.

(By M s . Thornton) I c a n ' t t h i n k o f

anything right at the moment.
229

5945

0
1
2

I

i

,. ' r

3i

Q.

Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

61

rv

3

I

4
5

I
I

6
7

intentionally kills another during one of those underlying offenses, would you see y o u r s e l f e v e r imposing a l i f e s e n t e n c e ?

I

8

10

A.

( B y Mr. Natale) No, not w i t h t h o s e

11
12

c l e a r - c u t f a c t o r s , no.

Q.

You understand, i f you d i d n ' t h a v e

13

that, it wouldn't be a first degree murder.

I

14
15

A. Q.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) R i g h t .
I a p p r e c i a t e y o u r c a n d o r on this

16
17

b e c a u s e if w e d o g e t to this point, we h a v e t o know n o w whether y o u w o u l d b e o p e n t o b o t h sentences. From what I a m h e a r i n g i s t h a t i f

I

18
19
20 21 22 23 24 25

first degree murder is proven, then, M r . N a t a l e , you c a n n o t c o n s i d e r a l i f e sentences? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) If it was an

i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g , no, I c o u l d n o t .

Q.

And if i t wasn't i n t e n t i o n a l , i t

w o u l d n ' t b e first. A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right. I f i t was i n t e n t i o n a l , y o u c o u l d n ' t

26
27

Q.

28
29 30 31 32

i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e ; i s t h a t a f a i r statement? A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. And the s a m e f o r y o u , M s . T h o r n t o n . ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s .
230

Q.
A.

5946

Q.
2

And t h e s a m e f o r y o u , M r . W a l k e r .

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. L e t me fast forward. If y o u ' r e g o o d

3
I

Q.

4

a t s p e e d r e a d i n g , you c o u l d k e e p u p w i t h t h i s . A g a i n , i t g o e s back t o y o u r q u a l i f i c a t i o n s t o
serve on the jury.

I

5
6

It is o k a y to feel t h a t

7

8

9 10
I'm not ignoring the three o f

you now

12

a t t h i s p o i n t , but I know you a r e f i x e d in y o u r ways.

13

14
15

The rest of you, e a c h j u r o r d e c i d e s
individually life o r death.
Y o u did t h a t

16

based upon your own assessment o f what is a g g r a v a t i n g and mitigating. What is

17 18

a g g r a v a t i n g t o o n e p e r s o n - - I m e a n , w h a t is m i t i g a t i n g t o o n e person might b e l e s s m i t i g a t i n g t o another. m e a n s life. O n e vote, o f c o u r s e ,

19
20 21 22 23 24 25

It only t a k e s o n e o f y o u t o t h i n k

t h a t , n o , m y c o n s c i e n c e t e l l s me t h a t l i f e i s the a p p r o p r i a t e sentence. Again, the l a w n e v e r r e q u i r e s y o u t o e v e r i m p o s e a l i f e s e n t e n c e n o m a t t e r h o w bad t h e o f f e n s e is. f o r mercy. You a l w a y s h a v e t h e o p t i o n

26 27
28

And o n e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e

c a n s u p p o r t a vote f o r l i f e r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e number of aggravating circumstances found. A n d , o f c o u r s e , you may v o t e f o r l i f e b a s e d o n mercy alone. Now, i f y o u ' r e

29
30

31
32

o b l i g a t e d to s e r v e a s a j u r o r , you h a v e
231

5,947

-

-..

certain rights.

Now, the reason for t h i s is,

t h i s is probably one o f the most i m p o r t a n t decisions that people can make in their l i v e s

of whether or n o t t a k e a n o t h e r human being’s
life.

Ms. Hicks, what was the most
important decision y o u ’ v e ever made in y o u r life?

A.
Q.

( B y M s . Hicks) I d o n ’ t really know.
Someone getting married, a decision

to have children, a j o b to take? c a n you think o f any now?

Ms. Hicks,

A.

( B y Ms. Hicks) Well, I g u e s s g e t t i n g

married was the biggest

one.

Q.

Okay.

I s that something you took

lightly or you took your time i n d e c i d i n g ?
A.

(By Ms. Hicks) I t was pretty l i g h t . Okay. Love will d o that, w o n ’ t i t ? What about you, M s . Dixon?

Q.

A.

(By Ms. Dixon) I would h a v e t o s a y

getting married.

Q.

T h a t ’ s something you took l i g h t l y or

you considered a while?
A.

(By Ms. Dixon) I g u e s s I w o u l d h a v e

to say perhaps I t o o k i t lightly.

Q.

L e t me rephrase the q u e s t i o n .

Has

anyone ever had to make a really, r e a l l y t o u g h decision in their life?

A.
A.

(By Mr. Natale)

(No response.)

(By Ms. Thornton) ( N o response.) (By Ms. Edwards) (By Mr. Walker)
( N o response.)

A.
A.

(No response.)

A.
A.

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ,(No response.) ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s )

A.

(No response.)

A.
A.
A.

(By Ms. Snelling) (No r e s p o n s e . )
( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n )

(No r e s p o n s e . )

( B y Ms. Clay) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) (By Mr. Thomas) M r . Walker.
( B y Mr. W a l k e r )

I
8
9

A.

(No response.)

Q.
A.

I

A j o b change.

10

Q.

Okay. That's something you took

11
12

lightly? A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No.

13
14
15

a@
A.

Was i t an e a s y d e c i s i o n ?
( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) No.

Q.
it? A.

You h a v e t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e s i d e s t o

16
17

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y . H o w w o u l d you r a t e t h e d e c i s i o n o n

18 19

I

Q.

t a k i n g s o m e o n e ' s l i f e in t'erms of d i f f i c u l t y ? A. ten? (By M r . W a l k e r ) On a s c a l e of o n e t o

20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30

I

toughest?

Q.
A.

Yes. (By M r . Walker) T h a t ' s i t . W e a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a very t o u g h

Q.

d e c i s i o n , a n d i t ' s s o m e t h i n g we w a n t t o d o very c a l m l y a n d soberly a n d with g r e a t consideration. For t h a t r e a s o n , y o u h a v e And there, o n e i s t h e T h e s e c o n d i s t o make
233

31 32

t h r e e s p e c i a l rights. r i g h t t o b e respected.

5949

1

an i n d i v i d u a l decision. be a holdout. respected.

And the third is to

2 2
rvll E3
frd'l * *R*
I

93

Let me d i s c u s s t h e f i r s t , t o b e
llrl

M r . Thomas, i f d u r i n g d e l i b e r a t i o n s

rcr

CiD
lSb4

you f o u n d y o u r s e l f t o b e t h e h o l d o u t , o n e way
or a n o t h e r , how would y o u want to be treated?
A.
8
9
10

###BOT_TEXT###quot;I%

Q
dl3

1r:a

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I g u e s s j u s t

respected for my decision.

Q.
let's say

H o w w o u l d you t r e a 8 a n o t h e r o n e ;
you are

in t h e m a j o r i t y .

You

see

a

11

holdout, it's getting late, and you feel like i f I c o u l d j u s t c o n v i n c e him t h a t h e ' s w r o n g

12

13

or s h e ' s wrong, we c a n a l l g o h o m e , h o w w o u l d

14
15

you treat that p e r s o n ?
A.

( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k I w o u l d It's their

16
17

t r y t o c o n v i n c e them o f a n y t h i n g . decision.

18
19
20

Q.

O k a y . Mr. Walters, if you s a w a

h o l d o u t j u r o r , and the r e s t o f the j u r o r s were really putting a lot of pressure on him, if y o u t h o u g h t t h a t they were p e r h a p s g o i n g a l i t t l e t o o f a r or being u n f a i r , w o u l d y o u i n t e r v e n e on b e h a l f o f t h a t j u r o r ?
A. (By' M r . Walters) T h e b o t t o m l i n e is,

21
22
23 24 25

t h i s i s an i n d i v i d u a l d e c i s i o n , a n d y o u k n o w , i f t h a t p e r s o n , n a t u r a l l y we'd b e a b l e t o d i s c u s s i t , i f t h a t person b e l i e v e s a n d h i s t h o u g h t p r o c e s s e s were s u c h t h a t h e f e e l s s t r o n g l y with i t , who am I t o s a y o t h e r w i s e ? W o u l d I i n t e r v e n e , sure, I w o u l d t r y t o c a l m the s i t u a t i o n down.
I

26
27

28
29

30

31
32

Q.

Thank y o u .
234

I

1
2

I
I

The second right is to individually d e c i d e t h e p e r s o n ' s f a t e for yourself. And

1
I

3

s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a s t o b e d o n e a g a i n b a s e d upon

I
I

4
5
6

your own i d e a s of w h a t ' s mitigating and what's
not.
And in d e c i d i n g w h a t ' s m i t i g a t i n g o r

I

I
I

a g g r a v a t i n g , the l a w s a y s what i s a g g r a v a t i n g . W h a t ' s mitigating; of. the law o n l y g i v e s e x a m p l e s

7 8 9
10

It h a s t h a t b i g c a t c h a l l , a n y o t h e r

relevant mitigating circumstance.
And the law s a y s y o u c a n d e c i d e t h o s e b a s e d o n f o l l o w i n g y o u r own c o n s c i e n c e . And

11
12
13
14
15

e a c h o n e o f you d e c i d e s o n y o u r o w n w h a t i s m i t i g a t i n g a n d what weight t o a t t a c h t o t h o s e . When it c o m e s to m e r c y , that's t o t a l l y u p t o e a c h o n e o f you i n d i v i d u a l l y . L e t ' s s t a r t with s o m e o n e else. I think we s t a r t e d w i t h y o u , Mr. J e f f e r s o n . A. W h a t d o e s mercy m e a n t o y o u ?

16
17

18

19 20
21

( B y Mr. Jefferson) I t i s s o m e t h i n g

t h a t w h e n somebody h a s d o n e s o m e t h i n g w r o n g a n d y o u a c t u a l l y feel b a d f o r t h e m , m a y b e t h e s i t u a t i o n they h a d b e e n t h r o u g h o r b e e n i n , or like he was talking about, you could actually g i v e him mercy f o r t h a t , maybe.

22 23 24 25
26

Q.

In o t h e r words, f o r t h e m u r d e r e r

h i m s e l f b e i n g a victim? A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) C o u l d h a v e . Okay. T h a t would b e a r e a s o n f o r

27 28 29 30
31
32

Q.
mercy? A.

( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yeah. T h a t ' s a good p o i n t .
M s . Clay, i s mercy s o m e t h i n g . t h a t ' s

Q.

235

I
I

1

earned? A. question. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h a t ' s a l o a d e d

I

I
Considering that your husband is a

2 3
~

I
~

4

Q.

I

5
6
7
8 9

pastor.
A.

(By Ms. Clay) Yeah, I t h i n k i t

d e p e n d s on the situation, h o n e s t l y , and t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s if i t ' s earned or not.

Q.

C o u l d you i m p o s e m e r c y b a s e d u p o n t h e

I

10
11 12 13

fact that the m u r d e r e r h i m s e l f
victim? A. t o me?

has b e e n a

I

( B y Ms. C l a y ) Are y o u s t i l l t a l k i n g

14
15

Q.
A.

Yes.
( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah, because I mean, I

16
17 18

h a v e d e f i n i t e l y d e a l t with v i c t i m s in t h e p a s t , a n d it would b e a c o n s i d e r a t i o n .

Q.

Mr. Walters, l i k e Mr. J e f f e r s o n a n d

19
20 21 22 23
24
25

M s . C l a y , c o u l d y o u c o n s i d e r i m p o s i n g m e r c y on t h a t b a s i s because the murderer h i m s e l f h a s been a victim? A. (By Mr. Walters) I would say, yes,

I
I

n o t b a s e d s o l e l y o n t h e mercy b u t t h e s e v e r e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s , t h a t w o u l d h e l p me with t h e mercy.

26 27 28 29 30
31

Q.

A n d , Mr. J e f f e r s o n ' a n d Ms. C l a y , y o u

.are n o d d i n g in a g r e e m e n t with M r . W a l t e r s . A. A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . ) ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (Juror nods head.)

Q.

T h a t m a y b e n o t a l o n e b u t in

c o m b i n a t i o n with severe m i t i g a t i n g circumstances.

32

1

" .

0
What a b o u t you, M s . Edwards?

1

Would

2

you consider mercy for the fact or the basis
t h a t t h e m u r d e r e r is also a v i c t i m ?

3

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
Ms. D i x o n , could you consider g i v i n g

m e r c y f o r t h a t r e a s o n , t h a t t h e murderer is
7

also a victim?

8 9
10

A.

( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Y e s .

Q.
A.

You w e r e h e s i t a n t .
(By Ms.
Dixon)
Y e a h .

11
12

I

Q.

Would it take a little bit more than

13
14
15

t h a t ' s k i n d of - - I m e a n , b e c a u s e t w o w r o n g s don't make a right.

16
17

Q.

Sure.

You would want to see more

I

than just the fact that he was a victim?

18

.A .

( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes. Okay. Ms. Hicks. (By Ms. Hicks) I agree that I would

19
20

Q.
A.

2 1

h a v e t o s e e m o r e t h a n that.

22
23 24 25

Q.
a victim.

More than the murderer himself being

Mr. Thomas, the same question. A. (By Mr. Thomas) Yes, I think I could

26
27 28
29 30 31 32

show mercy.

Q.
holdout.

Finally, you have the right t o be a And actually the law - - or most

judges instruct jurors that it is their duty not t o surrender their honest opinions in order to reach a verdict.
So i t i s n o t o n l y

I

suggested, but it's pretty much the law, but

...

2 3 "F '
dm

1
2

b y t h e same t o k e n ,

you h a v e t o d e l i b e r a t e ,

you

have t o d i s c u s s your t o do t h a t .

feelings,

and w e want you

3

W w a n t you t o d o i t f,or t h e e

4
5
6
7
8
9

reason meant. We don't want you to surrender
your h o n e s t c o n v i c t i o n s j u s t t o r e a c h a
verdict.
A. A.
A.

Does e v e r y o n e a g r e e n o t t o do t h a t ? (By M r . (By M s .
(By M s .

Nata1.e) Yes.
T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
Edwards)
Y e s .

10

A.

(By M r . (By M s . (By M s .

Walker)

Y e s .

11
12

A.
A.

Hicks)

Yes.

Dixon)

Yes.

13
14
15

A.
A.
A.
A.
A.

(By Mr. Walters) Yes.
(By M s - .
(By M r . (By M s .
(By M r .

I

~

Snelling) Yes.
,

Jefferson) C l a y ) Yes.

Yes.

16
17

Thomas) Y e s .

18

Q.

The

system expects t h a t sometimes i t And

19
20
21

a l l o w s f o r t h i s outcome and i t ' s t h e l a w .
it essentially

s a y s i t ' s okay t o agree t o

disagree.
Before I close, q u e s t i o n s f o r me? does anybody have

22

23
24
25

A:
A.

(By M r . (By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M s . (By M r . (By M s . (By M r .

Natale)

(No r e s p o n s e . )
(No (No (No (No

i

Thornton)
Edwards)

response.) response.)

26
27 28

A.

A.
A.

Walker)
Hicks)

response.) response.)

29
30
31

A.
A. A. A.

Dixon)

(No response.)

Walters)

(No r e s p o n s e . )

Snelling). (No re'sponse. ) Jefferson) (No r e s p o n s e . )

32

I

1
2

A. A.

(By Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e , ) ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) MR. GOLDEN: (No r e s p o n s e . ) T h a n k y o u very m u c h f o r

3

y o u r time.
T H E COURT:

W i l 1 , y o u please f o l l o w the

b a i l i f f , Frankie, o u t f o r j u s t a m o m e n t .
7

( U p o n t h e venire p a n e l was e x c u s e d f r o m the courtroom.)
T H E COURT:

8

9
10

Is t h e r e any r e q u e s t for

I
I

individual voir dire? MR. THOMPSON: We would respectfully

11
12

r e q u e s t juror o n e , M r . N a t a l e ; j u r o r n u m b e r t w o , M s . T h o r n t o n ; a n d Mr. W a l k e r . We will

13

I

14
15

s t a r t with j u r o r number one with p e r m i s s i o n
f r o m the Court. ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom.) THE COURT: Mr. N a t a l e , we o n l y b r o u g h t

16
17

18
19
20
I
I
~

you in t o ask you a few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e the p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s .

21
22 23 24

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

I

,I

BY M R . THOMPSON:

Q.

M r . Natale, I wanted t o a s k y o u s o m e

~

25

f o l l o w - u p q u e s t i o n s in r e f e r e n c e t o s o m e o f t h e r e s p o n s e s you g a v e t o Mr. G o l d e n i n t h a t

I

27

r o u n d of voir dire. W h e n we h a d a d i s c u s s i o n e a r l i e r , I a s k e d you whether you c o u l d c o n s i d e r a l l t h e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e a n d a s s i g n them their a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t t h a t you want to give them, as your juror's right,

1
2
3

a n d t h e n r e n d e r an u l t i m a t e d e c i s i o n t h a t you
felt appropriate. questioning?

Do y o u r e c a l l t h a t l i n e of

A.
5
6
7
8

( B y M r , Natale) Yes.
You said during t h a t l i n e of

Q.

q u e s t i o n i n g that y o u could seriously c o n s i d e r b o t h t h e l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t o p t i o n o r d e a t h ; is that correct?

9
10
11
12

A.
Q.
A.

(By Mr. N a t a l e ) Um-hum.
I n e e d y o u t o a n s w e r y e s o r no.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes, y e s .
Also, I a d d e d t h e c a v e a t t h a t i f

Q.

13
14
15

y o u ' r e a t t h a t portion, t h e d e f e n d a n t has a l r e a d y b e e n c o n v i c t e d of first d e g r e e murder.
Do you recall that line of questioning?

16 17

A.

(By Mr. Natale) Yes.

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t , Mr. G o l d e n d i d a

18
19
20

f o l l o w - u p a n d a s k e d if s o m e o n e w a s c o n v i c t e d of first degree murder, an intentional killing during the course o f ' o n e of those aggravating circumstances, would you be able to impose a life sentence, and then you indicated no.

21 22
23

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) W e l l , g i v e n - - j u s t

24
25

given the circumstances of somebody intenti,onally k i l l e d s o m e b o d y , y o u k n o w , I would think it would have to be, you know, heinous, but I would think if there are other mitigating circumstances, I could weigh both, but I think.ultimately and honestly, my favor wou.ld g o s t r o n g e r t o t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y .

26 27
28

29
30 31

Q.
t

As w e i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r - (By Mr. Natale) But I would consider

32

A.

I
I

1
2 3

b o t h , b u t g i v e more w e i g h t t o t h e death penalty.

Q.

Right.

Now, k e e p i n m i n d , a s we

I

4

indicated earlier, it's okay to favor the death penalty.
A.
( B y Mr.

5
6

N a t a l e ) Right.

7

Q.

As l o n g a s you w i l l s e r i o u s l y

8
9

c o n s i d e r b o t h options.

A.

(By Mr. Natale) Yes.

10
11
12 13

Q.

And y o u i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r t h a t t h e r e
t

may b e s o m e t h i n g in a ,case that w o u l d cause y o u t o vote for life; w o u l d t h a t b e a f a i r statement?

14

A.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

15

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t , as M r . G o l d e n '

16
17

q u e s t i o n e d y o u and as I've thrown o u t t o you, c a n y o u e n v i s i o n s c e n a r i o s w h e r e e v e n if someone is convicted of first degree murder, t h e y may b e c o n v i c t e d a s a p r i n c i p a l , t h e y may b e t h e g e t a w a y d r i v e r , there m i g h t h a v e b e e n p e r s o n i n v o l v e d o r such, so o n a n d s u c h f o r t h , t h a t you might h a v e f a c t o r s t o c h o o s e f r o m b e f o r e y o u make your d e c i s i o n .
A.
( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

18 19
20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31

Q.

Since to that extent, since we can't

g i v e you t h e f a c t s , these r u l e s a r e a c a t c h a l l f o r any c a s e you might s e e ; w o u l d t h a t b e a fair assessment?
A.

( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

\

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t , e v e n k n o w i n g t h a t you

h a v e c o n v i c t e d someone o f a n i n t e n t i o n a l h o m i c i d e , w o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o k e e p y o u r

32

m i n d o p e n in t h e penalty phase t o h e a r a n y and all evidence pertaining to the mitigating factors or an aggravating circumstance before y o u made up your A.

mind?

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes, I w o u l d consider

b o t h o p t i o n s , but a g a i n , I l e a n h e a v i l y t o w a r d s the d e a t h penalty.

Q.

I t ' s okay t o d o t h a t , b u t w o u l d y o u

9
10
11
12

automatically exclude the life sentence?
A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

Q.
A.

Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

13
14
15

Q.
phase?

So do y o u f e e l that you c o u l d b e a

fair juror as to b o t h p e n a l t i e s i n t h e p e n a l t y
A t the e n d o f a l l the e v i d e n c e , y o u

16
17

w i l l g e t t o make that f i n a l d e c i s i o n , b u t what
I want t o f i n d out i s whether y o u c o u l d b e a

ia
19
20

juror that seriously - -

A.

( B y M r . Natale) I h a v e b e e n t h i n k i n g

h a r d on t h a t here, p a r t i c u l a r l y t h i s a f t e r n o o n , working with p o l i c e o f f i c e r s , k n o w i n g prosecuto'rs, i t may b e d i f f i c u l t f o r me t o - - I mean, I would c o n s i d e r b o t h , b u t b e s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n a case like that.

21
22
23 24

25 26

Q.
A.

That's understandable. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) And g i v e n t h a t , I ' m

27
28

n o t s u r e based o n how I view i t , i f t h a t w o u l d b e a - - i f that w o u l d b e a f a i r juror.

29

30
31 32

Q.

Okay.

So I ' m g o i n g t o a s k ' y o u

this - - and 1'll.accept whatever answer you want g i v e - - d o you f e e l t h a t y o u c o u l d b e a

1
2
3
4
5

f a i r j u r o r in a penalty p h a s e i n a c a s e o f this nature? A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) No. Okay. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

Q.
that?

6

A.

( B y Mr. Natale) Yes.

7

Q.

Is i t b a s e d on your w o r k w i t h l a w

a
9
10

enforcement? A.
beliefs.

( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) And my p e r s o n a l

11

MR. T H O M P S O N : moment.

Okay. Y o u r H o n o r , o n e

12

13
b

( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n off t h e record w a s held.) MR. THOMPSON: f o r y o u r answers.
I w i l l t e n d e r t o defense. c o u n s e l ,

14
15

M r . N a t a l e , t h a n k you

16

17 18 19 20

Your Honor. MR. G O L D E N : THE COURT: No que,stions, Y o u r H o n o r . Thank you, sir. You may

21

r e t u r n to C o u r t r o o m H , a n d we w i l l c a l l you back shortly. ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d f r o m the c o u r t r o o m . ) MR. G O L D E N : Y o u r H o n o r , m a y t h e record

22
23

24
25

26
27
28 29
30

r e f l e c t t h a t the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s a r e o u t s i d e the c o u r t r o o m . At t h i s t i m e , t h e

defense would challenge prospective juror number one, Mark Natale, for cause pursuant to Article 7 9 7 based u p o n the a n s w e r s t h a t h e g a v e d u r i n g voir dire. MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , t h a t ' s

31 32

..'

I

;e:
I,&

., q

w i t h o u t objection. THE COURT:
/ - -

px%

1;1

All right.

B a s e d u p o n the
" .*a

r e s p o n s e s a n d the m o t i o n b y t h e d e f e n s e , n o o b j e c t i o n by the State, t h e C o u r t w i l l g r a n t the challenge for c a u s e . ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d f r o m the v e n i r e panel.) MR. T H O M P S O N : We would request juror

@jjl

C" h l

ca
rhl

RIFl
k3 -

Q u3

(Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r the c o u r t r o o m . ) THE COURT:

w a s

seated

i n

Ms. T h o r n t o n , w e c a l l e d you

i n t o a s k you few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e
presence

of

the o t h e r j u r o r s .

Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

MR. T H O M P S O N :

We are, Your Honor.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N BY M R . T H O M P S O N :

Q.

G o o d afternoon a g a i n , M s . T h o r n t o n . I

w a n t e d t o d o a follow- up in r e g a r d s t o s o m e o f t h e a n s w e r s g i v e t o Mr. G o l d e n in t h a t l a s t round o f v o i r d i r e .
A.

(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Urn-hum.

Q.

N O W , d o you r e c a l l t h e l i n e of

q u e s t i o n i n g you a n d I h a d in t h e f i r s t r o u n d
of v o i r d i r e r e l a t e d t o c o n s i d e r i n g a l l t h e

e v i d e n c e , l o o k i n g a t the S t a t e ' s a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e , l o o k i n g at the m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s t h a t may or may n o t b e p r e s e n t e d , g i v i n g them t h e i r t o t a l w e i g h t , w a i t u n t i l y o u s e e a l l t h e evidence t h a t is p r e s e n t e d , a l l
244

.-

1
2
3
4
5

t h e a r g u m e n t s t h a t a r e made, rendering a final decision?
A.

and then

(By M s .

Thornton) Right.

Q.
that

And d o y o u r e c a l l t h a t y o u i n d i c a t e d
c o u l d do
that process?

you

6
7

A.

(By M s .

Thornton)

I did,

and I guess
I mea.n,

maybe' I d i d n ' t u n d e r s t a n d e x a c t l y .
there are circumstances t h a t

8

I would weigh,

9

y o u k n o w , my f e e l i n g s ,
explain it.

I don't

know how t o
after,he

10
11
12

I guess I felt

l i k e

explained it t h a t t h e m i t i g a t i n g ones,
t o that point, you know, choices.
Q.
A.

you g o t

i t was e i t h e r h e was g u i l t y o r f

13
14

l i k e you d i d n ' t h a v e t h a t many

15

Okay.

16

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n )

I don't

know how t o

17
18

explain it.

Q.
back

Well,

l e t m e see i f

I

can bring it you're
a

19

a n d b r e a k i t down a n d s e e i f

20

j u r o r t h a t c o u l d serve i n t h e p e n a l t y phase.
A.

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Okay.

2'2 23 24 25 26
27

Q.
phase,
the

Do y o u u n d e r s t a n d a s f a r a s t h e g u i l t
the

j u r y w i l l determine whether o r n o t
first

defenda'nt i s g u i l t y o r n o t g u i l t y of

degree murder?
A.

(By M s .

Thornton) R i g h t .
the

Q.

To th.at e x t e n t ,

jury finds the

28
29

evidence beyond a reasonable doubt t h a t the d e f e n d a n t committed f i r s t degree m u r d e r , w h e t h e r h e was a p r i n c i p a l o r w h a t e v e r h i s participation was, b e i n g g u i l t y of t h a t , g i v e s rise t o h i m
charge,

30
31

32

that

you t h e n g o i n t o

e
t h e p e n a l t y phase. chart?

!.

.3

--

Do you r e c a l l t h e f l o w

A.

( B y Ms. Thornton) R i g h t . In the penalty phase, the State gets
far

Q.
5

to p r e s e n t e v i d e n c e a s

as o u r a g g r a v a t i n g

6
7

c i r c u m s t a n c e s ; the d e f e n s e , if t h e y c h o o s e t o d o so, c a n p r e s e n t any m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s they wish t o put o n or they d o n ' t h a v e t'o p u t on

8

9
10
11
12

any mitigating factors. T h e y can r e l y o n t h e
mercy a r g u m e n t , o r they c a n r e l y o n a n y t h i n g in t h e c a s e t h a t the jury c a n h a n g t h e i r h a t s on a l i f e s e n t e n c e . Do y o u u n d e r s t a n d h o w t h a t process works?

13

14
15

A.
Q.

(By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
You recall in t h a t p r o c e s s , I a s k e d

16 17

w h e t h e r the j u r o r s c o u l d wait u n t i l t h e end of a l l t h e e v i d e n c e before they m a k e a f i n a l d e c i s i o n , a n d t h e n in t h a t p r o c e s s , t h e l a w r e q u i r e s t h a t you c o n s i d e r a n y a n d a l l m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , and then y o u c a n a s s i g n t h e m the a p p r o p r i a t e weight, a n d t h e n a f t e r y o u ' v e h e a r d a l l the e v i d e n c e o f t h e c a s e , t h e n y o u c a n make a final d e c i s i o n ; d o y o u understand that process?

18
19
20

21 22
23 24

25
26
27

A.

( B y M s . Thornton) Yes.
Do you a g r e e with t h a t p r o c e s s ?

Q.
A.

( B y M s . Thornton) Y e s , I d o . Having then explained that now, as a

28
29

Q.

juror, you i n d i c a t e d , well, if t h e g u y committed an intentional murder in the penalty p h a s e a l o n g the l i n e o f M r . G o l d e n ' s q u e s t i o n s , I c o u l d n ' t d o a life s e n t e n c e ; d o

30

31
32

you r e c a l l t h a t ?

A.

(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) W e l l , m a y b e I

w a s n ' t u n d e r s t a n d i n g what h e w a s - - w h a t h e was saying. But I mean, I w o u l d w a n t t o

l i s t e n t o e v e r y t h i n g b e f o r e I made m y decision.

Q.

Okay.

Do you feel t h a t y o u c o u l d d o

t h a t i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in t h i s case?
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I think so. Listen t o a l l e v i d e n c e b e f o r e y o u

Q.

make a final decision?
A.

( B y M s . Thornton) Yes.

Q.

Did you s t i l l f e e l l i k e y o u w o u l d b e

a j u r o r t h a t c o u l d c o n s i d e r any a n d a l l mitigating factors?
A.

(By M s . T h o r n t o n )

I could consider

them.

Q.

Do you feel t h a t you c o u l d a s s i g n

them the appropriate weight that you deem them fit?

A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

Q.
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. N o w , you d o u n d e r s t a n d w i t h t h e s e

Q.

r u l e s a n d what we're t h r o w i n g o u t t o y o u , they a r e a c a t c h a l l for any c a s e you m i g h t s e e .
So

e v e n t h o u g h an a t t o r n e y c o m e s t o y o u a n d s a y s , well, y o u ' v e c o n v i c t e d h i m o f f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r f o r a robbery o r a k i d n a p p i n g , y o u d o n ' t k n o w a s a juror yet w h e t h e r h e w a s a p r i n c i p a l , w h e t h e r he was the g e t a w a y d r i v e r ,

--.

what his involvement is; would that be a fair

I

2
3
4

statement? A.
Q.

1

(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Right.
So to
that

extent,

even

though you

5
6 7
~

c o n v i c t e d s o m e o n e o f a c r i m e of t h a t n a t u r e , d o you f e e l like you c o u l d g o i n t o t h e p e n a l t y phase as a juror and follow those applicable l a w s a n d w a i t u n t i l you h e a r a l l t h e e v i d e n c e
before
you

I

8
9

make

a

f i n a l

decision?

10
11
12
13

A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. A n d to t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d an

Q.

individual if even he's convicted of that c h a r g e s t i l l h a v e a serious option for a l i f e s e n t e n c e with you d e p e n d i n g on what c o m e s o u t in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?
A.

14
15

16
17

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. D o y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
So y o u s e e h o w i t ' s s e t u p n o w ?

Q.
A.

18
19

Q.

Does

20
2 1 22

that clear it up?
A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes. T o t h a t e x t e n t , you feel s t r o n g a b o u t

Q.

23

your answers?

24
25 26 27

A.

( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. Do you h a v e a n y o t h e r q u e s t i o n s o r

Q.

any other clarifications I could make?
A.

( B y M s . Thornton) N o .
MR.

28
29
30

THOMPSON:

M s . T h o r n t o n , thank you

for y o u r a n s w e r s .

Your Honor, I'll t e n d e r t h e w i t n e s s .

31

32 248

5964

1

FURTHER
BY M R .

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

2

GOLDEN:
Ms.

3
4

Q.
A.

Thornton. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

(By M s .

5
6
7

Q.
sorry.
A.

If

I c o n f u s e d you i n a n y way,

I'm

I

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Well,

it's just I'm

8

nervous t o s t a r t with.

9

Q.

L e t m e t e l l m e you s o m e t h i n g .

Most

10
11

of u s a t t o r n e y s have been d o i n g t h i s f o r
years,
and w e
still
get
nervous
every

t i m e .

I

12

They s a y o n c e you s t o p g e t t i n g n e r v o u s ,

it's

13

time t o quit.

I t ' s o k a y t o be n e r v o u s ,

but

14
15

w h a t I w a n t t o be s u r e i s t h a t w e a r e t a l k i n g
about
the

s a m e

thing.

16
17 18
whether

In order

for

you t o even decide
there has

I

somebody g e t s l i f e o r d e a t h ,

t o be a c o n v i c t i o n o f And t h i s i s o n e o f

f i r s t degree murder.

19

t h e s l i d e s t h a t I showed, capital t r i a l procedure. under p a r t C,
it

20
21 22 23 24 25
'

i t ' s called Slide C,
I t ' s a number

four,

says i f you d i d

the penalty phase

i s reached,

it means

convict h i m of means,

f i r s t degree murder.

And t h a t

i t ' s n o t a case where t h e p e r s o n k i l l e d

i n self- defense, was legally intoxicated,
killed

26
27 28 29 30
31

i n the heat of blood,

was

accidental or

he d i d n ' t

mean i t . A n d w h e t h e r h e i s a the l a w says that i n order
he
had

principal or not, t o be c o n v i c t e d o f

first degree murder,
H e meant

t o i n t e n d t h e murder.

t o k i l l or t o

i n f l i c t great b o d i l y harm.
So a n

32

example of

--

I

don't

know

249

1 2

about a getaway car driver because he wouldn't be there intending to kill him.
'

Let's s a y t w o

3
4

people g o in to rob the bank, and l e t ' s s a y , I am the ring leader, a n d

I h a v e my p a r t n e r who

5

is collecting all the money, and he h a s gun. Even though I d o n ' t have the gun, I t e l l him before we leave, g o ahead and s h o o t e v e r y b o d y . Okay. Did I have the intent to k i l l ?

A.
10
11
12

(By Ms. Thornton) Yes.
Because I gave t h e order, e v e n t h o u g h I f there

Q.

I d i d n ' t actually pull the trigger.

is a guy outside in the getaway c a r , a n d he
d o e s n ' t know what's going on, he wouldn't have the intent to kill, but if I am g i v i n g

13
14
15

the

order o r I am actually pulling the t r i g g e r , we b o t h have the same intent and t h a t ' s t o k i l l o r commit g r e a t bodily harm. A. (By M s . Thornton) Y e s ,

16

17
18

19
20

Q.
A.

Do you understand that?
(By M s . Thornton) Yes.

21 22
23 24 25
26

Q.

So i f we reached a first d e g r e e

murder verdict, that means whether a person actually physically did the killing o r helped
d o the killing, he meant to kill.

His intent,

s t a t e o f mind, we're talking intent, w a s to k i l l or to inflict great bodily h a r m a n d the victim died. These are the kinds o f c a s e s we

27
28

are talking about for a penalty p h a s e .
I f there is no intent to kill, l i k e

29 30 31

he is the getaway car driver and the b a n k robbery just g o e s crazy, you k n o w t h a t happens.

32

A.

(By M s . Thornton) Right. He i s not guilty of first. He has t o Okay. So

Q.

have that specific intent to kill.

I
5

what I need to know from you is, if we reach
t h a t point i n

the penalty phase i t i s b e c a u s e

6 7 8

in finding him guilty of first degree murder, you're saying he had that intent to kill. somebody like that, could you impose a life For

9
10
11
12

sentence?
A.
( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I c o u l d , but maybe
I

this is where I'm not following through.

felt like I could, but I still would want t o hear mitigation. I would want to hear
it
before
I

13
14

everything i n v o l v e d i n final decision.

m a d e

my

15 16 17 18

Q.
A.

Okay. (By M s . Thornton) Like I said, I d o

strongly, you know, go for the death penalty, that was my answer on that, but I also am open.
I mean, I would want to hear everything

19

20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

that was involved in it before I made a final decision on that.

Q.

Can you think of any kind of, I ' m not

going t o say situation, but any defendant' where you would not just consider but actually impose a life sentence?'
A.

(By M s . Thornton) Well, I know if

children are involved, it's - - it would depend on the - - what was going on.
I know a death

29
30 31 32

is a death, but I know there can be things going on with someone, you know, that might have caused that or maybe something going in
251

1
2

h i s family, know.

y o u know,

i t ' s j u s t -- I d o n ' t

M a y b e I ' m g o i n g b a c k t o s o m e o n e i n my you know,

3

l i f e t h a t I know t h a t was r a i s e d ,

4
5
6
7 8

c o r r e c t l y , t h e right way, b u t y o u k n o w ,
g u e s s I k i n d of do wrong.

I

have feelings f o r people t h a t

Q.
A.

Um-hum. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) And I a l s o f e e l t h e y do,

9
10

l i k e t h e y should not do it, and i f
then they need
to be

punished.

11

Q.

C o u l d you h a v e empathy f o r somebody

12
13

who w a s r a i s e d a n d h a d a t e r r i b l e l i f e g r o w i n g up? A.
could.

14
15

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Well,

I ' m

sure I

16

Q.

NO W,

you m e n t i o n e d t h a t you w e r e
D i d

17
18

raised right.

y o u h a v e g o o d p a r e n t s who

r a i s e d you r i g h t ?
A.

19
20

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q.

Have you e v e r h e a r d t h e e x p r e s s i o n God g o I " ?

21 22 23 24 25

" b u t f o r t h e grace of
A.

(By M s .

Thornton) Y e s . You w o u l d a g r e e
I

Q.
that

You w e r e f o r t u n ' a t e .

not everybody i s t h a t f o r t u n a t e ?
A.

(By M s .

Thornton)

Yes.

26
27 28

Q.

C o u l d you c o n s i d e r t h e m i t i g a t i n g

circumstance of being raised i n a terrible and unfortunate childhood?
A.

29
30

(By M s .

T h o r n t o n ) Yeah, but
I

I wouldn't

k n o w how t h a t w o u l d f e e l , l o t of
that

know t h e r e ' s a

31
32

children out t h e r e t h a t are raised i n

situation.

!

-

0
Could you ever see yourself i m p o s i n g

!
~

Q.

a life sentence for an intentional k i l l e r because o f that?

A.

(By Ms. Thornton) Because o f the way

t h a t person was raised?

Q*
A.

Yeah.
(By Ms. Thornton) I'm not s u r e .
I

think sometimes you can overcome some of that. You know, being raised in a b a d s i t u a t i o n d o n ' t mean you always have to s t a y there.

Q.

Sure.

would you want to k n o w i f he

h a d any opportunities and chances t o o v e r c o m e it?

A.

(By M s . Thornton) Yes.

Q.
A.

That, too, would be i m p o r t a n t t o y o u ?
(By M s . Thornton) Yes.
Well, t h a t ' s a good point. Thank

Q.
you.

So as I understand you now, you c o u l d

consider imposing a life sentence f o r s o m e o n e w h o intentionally kills another, you w o u l d want to know all the evidence.
A.

(By M s . Thornton) Right. Y.ou would consider their b a c k g r o u n d ? (By M s . Thornton) Right. You would consider their u p b r i n g i n g .

Q.
A.

Q.

You would not only want to know was i t a b a d upbringing but i f he had any c h a n c e s to escape it?
A.

(By M s . Thornton) Also, I t h i n k

remorse would have something t o d o w i t h it.

Q.

Let me g o back to what you s a i d a b o u t

you s t i l l lean strongly toward the d e a t h

I

I

1

p e n a l t y , w o u l d t h a t cause y o u t o h a v e substantial difficulty imposing a life sentence?
A.
(By Ms.

2
3
4

Thornton) That's a question 1

5

d o n ' t ' r e a l l y know h o w to a n s w e r b e c a u s e I w o u l d s t i l l , I w o u l d j u s t n'eed t o h e a r what the c i r c u m s t a n c e s were.

6
7

8

Q.

I g u e s s what I a m a s k i n g y o u r i g h t

9
10
11

now, would you presume t h a t a l i f e s e n t e n c e i s
t h e r i g h t s e n t e n c e a n d then require us to p r o v e why h e s h o u l d b e - - I m e a n , a d e a t h s e n t e n c e s h o u l d b e the r i g h t s e n t e n c e a n d r e q u i r e us t o o v e r c o m e t h a t p r e s u m p t i o n t o p r o v e t o you why i t s h o u l d b e a l i f e s e n t e n c e ? A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

12

13
14

15
16
17

Q.
A.

Do you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t q u e s t i o n ?
(By M s . T h o r n t o n ) A g a i n , I can't

18 19
20

answer right now how I would, how I would say.

Q.

Okay. But you c o u l d c o n s i d e r imposing

a life sentence?

21 22
23

A.

( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I c o u l d . And you c a n reasonably d o i t ; w o u l d Could you?

Q.

t h a t b e fai'r to s a y ? A. could.

24 25
26 27

(By Ms. Thornton) I feel like I

Q.
the spot.

Again, I a p o l o g i z e for p u t t i n g y o u o n
You u n d e r s t a n d why we h a d t o d e l v e

28 29

into this? A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes. MR. G O L D E N : MR. T H O M P S O N : THE COURT: T h a n k y o u f o r y o u r time. No further questions.
You may return
255

30
31

32

Thank you.

5 9 '7 .!

I

..-,,:
.

1

outside.

W e will c a l l you b a c k s h o r t l y .

2
3

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d from the courtroom.)

4
5

MR. G O L D E N :
we would him? MR. T H O M P S O N :
l i k e

Your H o n o r , a t t h i s t i m e ,
--

to call

do

you

want

to c a l l

6
7
8

I
Yes, Your Honor, I would

I

l i k e t o c a l l juror n u m b e r six,' M r . W a l k e r .

9
10
11
12 13
14 15

THE'COURT: A n y m o t i o n s with
Ms. Thornton?
MR. G O L D E N :

r e s p e c t to

I

Your H o n o r , t h e d e f e n s e

would move to challenge Mr. Walker for cause. (Whereupon a discussion off the record was held. ) MR. G O L D E N : THE COURT: There is no challenge. All right.

16

17

(Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r ' w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom.) T H E COURT: Mr. W a l k e r , we j u s t h a d

18
19

20
21 22
23

y o u b r o u g h t in t o a s k you a f e w q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e the p r e s e n c e o f t h e o t h e r j u r o r s .
Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

MR. THOMPSON:

Yes, Your Honor.

24 25

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

26
27 28 29 30
31
32

Q.
A.

G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Mr. W a l k e r . ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Good afternoon.

Q.

Mr. Walker, I wanted to bring you

b a c k in a p r i v a t e setting h e r e in a n individual capacity to clear up some answers y o u g a v e t o Mr. Golden which I f e l t w e r e

~~

1
2

c o n f l i c t i n g t o your e a r l i e r a n s w e r s i n t h e i n i t i a l r o u n d of voir dilre t o t h e h y p o t h e t s I gave you.

3

4

Do you recall in my e a r l i e r

5
6
7

examination when I a s k e d you, e v e n i f s o m e o n e
was c o n v i c t e d o f first d e g r e e
m u r d e r ,
when

you

g o t o the p e n a l t y p h a s e , j u r o r s a r e s u p p o s e d t o k e e p an o p e n m i n d a s t o e i t h e r p e n a l t y , t o look to the State's aggravating circumstance

a
9

10
11
12
13

a n d t h e n t o consider a n y a n d all relevant
m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s o r f a c t o r s t h a t the d e f e n s e may elect to p u t o n , o r e v e n i f t h e y d o n ' t p u t a n y t h i n g on a n d they a s k f o r a p l e a

14
15

of m e r c y , t h e jury i s s u p p o s e d t o c o n s i d e r a l l
t h a t a n d t a k e a l l the e v i d e n c e in m a k e a final decision?

before t h e y

16
17

Do you recall that

l i n e o f q u e s t i o n i n g we h a d ?
A.

18

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. A n d earlier in t h a t l i n e of

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

Q.

q u e s t i o n i n g , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u c o u l d follow that process.
A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Um- hum. N o w , when M r . G o l d e n a s k e d y o u i n a

Q.

follow-up if someone was convicted of an i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g along t h e l i n e s o f t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s we i n d i c a t e d d u r i n g a r o b b e r y o r a k i d n a p p i n g or an a r s o n o r t h e a t t e m p t t o k i l l m o r e t h a n o n e p e r s o n , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u w o u l d n ' t i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e , t h a t deat,h w o u l d be the only a p p r o p r i a t e p u n i s h m e n t ; d o you r e c a l l t h a t l i n e o f questioning?
257

5973

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. A n d d o you s e e w h e r e t h e r e m i g h t b e a

Q.

d i f f e r e n c e in y o u r s t a t e m e n t s , a n d t h a t ' s what

I w a n t e d to e x p l o r e ?
A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) O k a y .

I

t h i n k

I see

what y o u ' r e t a l k i n g about, b u t t h e b o t t o m l i n e to t h i n k i n g is, Yes I if there is

circumstances that would warrant a life

sentence, yes.
Q.
Okay.

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I t was l i k e I was

t e l l i n g y o u b e f o r e , i f it's c l e a r - c u t , a l l the evidence leads to that death, the death

penalty - Q.
A. Okay. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) - - t h a t ' s w h a t I w a s I might h a v e g o t t e n c o n f u s e d a

trying to say.

w h i l e a g o , b u t t h a t ' s the b o t t o m l i n e .

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y M r . Walker) Any t y p e o f

circumstances that could cause another situation, yes, I would have to look at that.

Q.

L e t me a s k you this:

In g o i n g b a c k

t o h o w the s e t - u p i s in L o u i s i a n a l a w in r e f e r e n c e t o the penalty p h a s e , we h a d e a r l i e r i n d i c a t e d t h a t the j u r o r s g o t h r o u g h a g u i l t p h a s e , w h e r e they d e t e r m i n e d w h e t h e r t h e S t a t e has proven beyond a reasonable doubt whether t h e d e f e n d a n t i s g u i l t y of f i r s t d e g r e e .,murder; d o you r e c a l l t h a t p r o c e s s ? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Um-hum., N o w , in t h a t p r o c e s s , t h e j u r o r s w i l l

Q.

a c t u a l l y h e a r t h e f a c t s a n d circumstances of the case. A. ( B y M r . Walker) Right. A n d y o u w i l l l e a r n what t y p e o f

Q.

murder a c t u a l l y happened.

I

6

A.

( B y Mr. Walker) Okay.
And there is a wide range of facts

Q.

and circumstances that the jury might hear; w o u l d y o u a g r e e with t h a t ?

10
11
12 13
1 4

A.
Q.

(By Mr. Walker)

Um-hum.

So o n c e you g e t to the penalty phase,

if t h e j u r y c o n v i c t s the d e f e n d a n t o f f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r , they may f i n d t h a t h e a c t e d a s
a

p r i n c i p a l t o the c r i m e , he m i g h t not

have

15

b e e n the t r i g g e r m a n or t h e p e r s o n t h a t d i d t h e a c t u a l l y killing, but h e ' s a p r i n c i p a l t o the c r i m e . T h e jury d o e s n ' t k n o w w h a t t h e y ' r e g o i n g t o hear y e t . A. ( B y Mr. Walker) R i g h t .
So that's why y o u k e e p an o p e n m i n d

16
17

18

19
20 21 22
23

Q.

g o i n g i n t o the penalty p h a s e ; d o y o u a g r e e with that? A.
'

( B y M r . Walker) Yes. When you g e t to the penallty p h a s e ,

24
25

Q.

L o u i s i a n a l a w r e q u i r e s that you l o o k t o t h e State's aggravating circumstance and then you c o n s i d e r any or a l l m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s t h a t a r e p r e s e n t e d e v e n if i t ' s j u s t a p l e a o f mercy and there's no mitigating factors presented; do you recall that? A.
Q.

26
27

28
29
'

30 31

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. And that the j u r o r s g i v e t h e

32

~

~

1

a p p r o p r i a t e weight t o whatever i s p r e s e n t e d .

2
3
4
5

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t . N o w , a t t h e end of a l l t h e e v i d e n c e ,

Q.

t h e j u r y can l o o k at e v e r y t h i n g t h e y
p e r c e i v e d , a l l the e v i d e n c e i n the g u i l t p h a s e , a l l the e v i d e n c e in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e . T h e y g o b a c k i n t o the d e l i b e r a t i o n r o o m a n d then they make a decision which sentence is

6

7

8

9
10

a p p r o p r i a t e in t h e situation we have j u s t
r e c e i v e d , e i t h e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r lif'e i m p r i s o n m e n t ; d o you f o l l o w t h a t ?

11
12

A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

13
14
15

Q.
A.

Do you agree with h o w t h a t ' s s e t u p ?
(By M r . W a l k e r ) Y e s .

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t you m i g h t b e d e a l i n g

16 17

with a n i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g or s o m e o n e w h o c o m m i t t e d an i n t e n t i o n a l h o m i c i d e ; d o y o u a g r e e with t h a t ?
A.

18
19

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

20
21
22
23 24

Q.

To t h a t e x t e n t , n o t k n o w i n g w h a t t y p e

o f c a s e you may g e t or what t y p e o f
c i r c u m s t a n c e s you may s e e , c a n y o u e n v i s i o n a s c e n a r i o w h e r e s o m e t h i n g in the c a s e may l e a d a juror to say this case deserves a life sentence?

25

26
27 28 29 30
31

A.
Q.

(By Mr. Walker) Yes, I can see that. And on the f l i p s i d e , t h e j u r y may say

after considering everything, I think the d e a t h penalty i s a p p r o p r i a t e ?
A.

( B y M r . .Walker) R i g h t .
So in t h a t s c e n a r i o , w o u l d y o u b e

Q.

32

a b l e t o f o l l o w L o u i s i a n a law a n d l o o k t o the

a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e a n d c o n s i d e r a l l the m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s that may b e p r e s e n t e d , g i v e
l

them their appropriate weight and to consider

~

a l l t h e e v i d e n c e b e f o r e y o u make a f i n a l
decision?

I

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t , I c o u l d . Do you feel like you c o u l d d o t h a t

Q.
process?

9
10

A. Q.
A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.
D o you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

11

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Um- hum.
I n e e d you t o a n s w e r y e s o r n o for

12 13
14

Q.

the court reporter.
A.
( B y Mr.

Walker)

Yes.
I

15 16 17

Q.

So t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d i t b e f a i r

to say that even though someone is convicted
of a n i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g in t h e g u i l t p h a s e

18
19

that you would still be able to keep an open m i n d a s t o b o t h punishments?
A.

20 21 22 23 24
( .

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Right. Until you h a v e h e a r d a l l t h e

Q.

e v i d e n c e , e v e n t h o u g h you a r e d e a l i n g with s o m e o n e w h o intentionally k i l l e d a n o t h e r person?
A.

25 26 27

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Right.
Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t that?

Q.
A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.
So w o u l d it f a i r t o s a y t h a t y o u

28
29

Q.

c o u l d i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e o n s o m e o n e w h o i s c o n v i c t e d o f first degree m u r d e r ?
A.

30
31
32

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Y e s , I c o u l d . D o e s t h a t c l e a r i t u p f o r y o u in
261

Q.

I

+l:

;

reference to those two rounds of questioning?

A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yeah, I t h i n k so. MR. THOMPSON: Okay.

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was
held.)

MR. T H O M P S O N : f o r y o u r answers.

Mr. W a l k e r , t h a n k you

I will t e n d e r the juror.

10

FURTHER

VOIR

DIRE

EXAMINATION

11 12
13
14
15

BY MR. THORNTON.

Q.

M r . W a l k e r , you t o l d m e e a r l i e r t h a t

i f y o u w e r e a hundred- percent c o n v i n c e d t h a t
the person committed the crime.
/

A.

(By

Mr. Walker) Right.

16
17

Q.
death.
A.

T h a t you w o u l d w a n t ' t o p u t h i m t o

18
19

(By Mr. Walker) Right. N o w , we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t ''the" c r i m e

Q.

20
2 1

a n d we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a g g r a v a t i n g a n d mitigating circumstances. a b o u t a l o t of things. We have talked

22
23

Mr. Thompson talked

a b o u t a l o t of t h i n g s t o y o u .

24
25

I want t o a s k you s o m e v e r y s i m p l e
questions. O k a y . T h e f i r s t t h i n g is, i f we

26 27

a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a first d e g r e e m u r d e r , w e are talking about somebody who meant to kill.
A.

28
29

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Right.
Do you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?

Q.
A.

30
31

(By Mr. Walker) Right. It's an intentional killing during a

Q.

32

r o b b e r y , a rape, a k i d n a p p i n g , o r a n o t h e r

1
2
3

s e r i o u s o f f e n s e ; d o you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?

A.

( B y Mr. Walker) Yes. We are not talking about an

Q.

4
5
6
7

accidental killing.
A.
( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Right.
W e are n o t t a l k i n g a b o u t k i l l i n g in We a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a k i l l i n g

Q.

self-defense.

8

w h e r e the p e r s o n meant t o kilL t h e v i c t i m .

9
10
11
12

A.
Q.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes'.
I t d o e s n ' t mean t h a t h e w o u l d

n e c e s s a r i l y h a v e t o b e the o n e t h a t a c t u a l l y p h y s i c a l l y k i l l e d them, b u t h e h a s t o h a v e meant to kill them, too. An e x a m p l e w o u l d b e

13

14
15

in an armed r o b b e r y of a b a n k , y o u h a v e t w o
people. O n e a c t u a l l y has the g u n , and t h e , And

16
17

o t h e r o n e i s a l s o actually the l e a d e r .

t h e o n e w i t h the g u n c a n - - the l e a d e r can s a y , s h o o t t h e m , I d o n ' t want t o l e a v e a n y witnesses behind. A. ( B y Mr. Walker) R i g h t .

18

19
20

21
22 23 24 25

Q.
victim. A.

So the g u y with the g u n s h o o t s t h e
Did b o t h people h a v e i n t e n t ? ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. B o t h o f them are j u s t a s guilty. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. Okay. T h e y are j u s t a s g u i l t y , t h e y

Q.
A.

26
27

Q.

b o t h h a d t h e intent t o k i l l . A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Exactly. N o w , for somebody l i k e t h a t , c o u l d

28
29 30

Q.

you e v e r s e e yourself i m p o s i n g a l i f e s e n t e n c e if you w e r e o n e - h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t s u r e t h e y d i d it?

31
32

,

1

A.

(By M r .

Walker)

If

t h e y were a

hundred percent,

yeah. what?

.

Q.
4
A.

A hundred percent

(By M r .
'

Walker) A hundred p e r c e n t the

5
6
7

d e a t h penalty .
Q.
A.

Okay. (By M r . Walker) T h a t ' s what
I said

8

before,

i t ' s g o t t o be o n e h u n d r e d p e r c e n t .
If

9
10

Q.
either

you are c o n v i n c e d t h a t h e a c t u a l l y
by g i v i n g a n

k i l l e d o r i n t e n d e d to k i l l

11

order o r something l i k e that.
A.

12

(By M r .

Walker)

(No response.)

13

Q.

The d e a t h p e n a l t y i s t h e o n l y

14
15
16

sentence f o r you?
A.

(By M r .

W a l k e r ) Yes.

Q.
A.

P r e t t y much a u t o m a t i c . (By M r .
MR. MR.
Walker)

17

Yes.

18

GOLDEN: THOMPSON:

Thank you. Your Honor, may I f o l l o w

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27
BY MR.

THE

COURT:

You m a y .

FURTHER V O I R THOMPSON: M r .

DIRE

EXAMINATION

Q.

Walker,

when does t h i s d e c i s i o n

c o m e i n t o p l a y f o r y o u a s f a r a s how w e s e t u p
this?
A.

28
29
30

(By M r .

Walker)

When d o e s i t c o m e

into play?

Q.

Yes.

Would i t come i n t o p l a y a f t e r

31
32

you've heard a l l the evidence?
A.

(By M r .

Walker)

Yes.

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Mr. Walker) You've got to hear

e v e r y t h i n g t o a b l e t o weight i t .
Q.
So

i n o t h e r words, even under

Mr. G o l d e n ' s s c e n a r i o , w h e r e y o u ' r e d e a l i n g with s o m e o n e w h o walks i n t o a b a n k o r s t o r e and shot a clerk and took off in the robbery, w o u l d y o u s t i l l wait t o see what e v i d e n c e i s

9
10

presented

in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?
( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes, I would. For instance, l e t ' s s a y in t h a t

A.

11

Q.

12

scenario, the defense presented mitigation to

13
14
15
16
17

the fact that he might have been suffering
from a mental disease or h e might h a v e h a d a
b a d c h i l d h o o d o r h e might h a v e b e e n a y o u t h f u l offender who couldn't appreciate the seriousness of the circumstances, would you be a b l e t o c o n s i d e r those f a c t o r s b e f o r e y o u m a d e that final decision?
A.

18 19

20
21

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. C o u l d you e n v i s i o n a s c e n a r i o w h e r e

Q.

22
23

t h e r e m i g h t b e a factor t h a t e v e n t h o u g h t h a t ' s s u c h a h o r r i b l e c r i m e , y o u may s a y t o y o u r s e l f well, based o n t h i s f a c t o r , I b e l i e v e t h i s c a s e d e s e r v e s a life s e n t e n c e ?

24

25

26
27 28 29 30 31 32

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. Okay.
So the d e c i s i o n t o i m p o s e a

Q.

d e a t h p e n a l t y , as you s t a t e d , i f y o u ' r e a hundred-percent sure of the crime, would that c o m e a t the e n d o f a l l the e v i d e n c e p r e s e n t e d ?
A.

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.
So you wouldn't m a k e t h a t d e c i s i o n in
265

Q.

5981.

1
I

1
2

guilt phase, would you? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Hum- um. K i n d of what M r . G o l d e n h a s o u t l i n e d
the crime itself.

I

3
in

Q.
this,

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. W o u l d y o u wait t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

Q.

m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s that may b e p r e s e n t e d ?

A.
9

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes, I w o u l d h a v e t o

hear everything.

10
11
12

Q.

So w o u l d a l i f e s e n t e n c e s t i l l b e a

s e r i o u s o p t i o n e v e n in the s c e n a r i o l i k e t h a t ? A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, a life sentence

13
14
15

would be a serious option.
Q.
that?
A. Okay.

And y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

16
17

(By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. MR. THOMPSON: MR. GOLDEN: Thank you, Mr. Walker. Your H o n o r , o n e l a s t

18
19

follow- up. THE COURT: You m a y .

20 21
22

F U R T H E R VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N BY MR. GOLDEN:

23 24 25
26 27

Q.

Mr. W a l k e r , as I h e a r y o u , y o u w o u l d

c o n s i d e r a l l o f the evidence.
A.

( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. W e i g h a l l the f a c t o r s ? (By Mr. Walker) (Juror nods head.)

Q.
A.

28
29

Q.

Listen t o the e n d o f t h e c a s e , b u t i f

30

you're a hundred-percent convinced that he intentionally killed another during a robbery, r a p e o r k i d n a p p i n g , what w o u l d y o u r v e r d i c t

31 32

be? A. (By Mr. Walker) D e a t h p e n a l t y . MR. GOLDEN: MR. T H O M P S O N : follow-up. THE COURT: You m a y . That's all. Your H o n o r , s o m e b r i e f

F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N BY M R . T H O M P S O N :

10
11
12
13

Q.

Mr. Walker, to that extent, t h o u g h ,

a n d Mr. G o l d e n t e l l i n g you t h a t if y o u ' r e a h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t s u r e t h a t t h i s case d e s e r v e s t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , then y o u w o u l d i m p o s e the

14
15
16
17

death penalty; is that correct? I S that a
statement? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

fair

Q.

And would t h a t d e c i s i o n c o m e a f t e r

ia
19

you d e l i b e r a t e d with your f e l l o w j u r o r s ? A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. Okay. So in t h a t p r o c e s s , i s t h a t

20
21 22 23

Q.

i n c l u d i n g t a k i n g i n a l l the e v i d e n c e t h a t you might hear? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t . Okay.
So when y o u s a y a h u n d r e d -

24
25 26 27 28 29
30
31

Q.

p e r c e n t s u r e , i s t h a t sta'ting a f t e r y o u h a v e c o n s i d e r e d a l l the m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , l o o k e d at the aggravating circumstance, you are now a one-hundred percent sure that this case deserves the death penalty? A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.
'

Q.

So that w o u l d be t h e d e c i s i o n a f t e r

32

you h a v e c o n s i d e r e d e v e r y t h i n g i n t h e c a s e ?

c

@
A.
(By M r . W a l k e r ) Right.

\

'd'

Q.

Would that be a decision that you

w o u l d p r e m a t u r e l y make b e f o r e y o u d e l i b e r a t e d
I

4

w i t h

your

fellow j u r o r s ?

I
I
~

5

A.

( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) No, I c o u l d n ' t d o i t . So i s that the c e r t a i n t y l e v e l t h a t

6
7

Q.

y o u ' r e r e a c h i n g in r e f e r e n c e t o a l l t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t you h a v e c o n s i d e r e d ?
A.
( B y Mr. Walker)

8
9

Things have to be

I

10

together, yes. MR. T H O M P S O N : Thank you, Mr. Walker.

11
12

T h a t ' s a l l the q u e s t i o n s I have.

13
14
15

THE C O U R T :
defense? MR. GOLDEN: question.

Any follow-up

by t h e

Your H o n o r , o n e l a s t

16
17

18
19 20

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
B Y MR. G O L D E N :

Q.

You s a i d you w o u l d wait u n t i l a l l t h e You w o u l d d i s c u s s i t a n d But if

21
22 23 24

e v i d e n c e i s in.

deliberate with a l l your jurors.

you're a hundred-percent convinced that he intentionally killed another, what would your verdict be?
A.

25 26
27
28 29 30 3 1

( B y Mr. Walker), It w o u l d b e d e a t h . MR. G O L D E N : . N o f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s . MR. THOMPSON: THE COURT: No f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s . You may be

Thank you, sir.

e x c u s e d , a n d we w i l l c a l l y o u b a c k s h o r t l y . (Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d from the c o u r t r o o m . )
268

32

1
2 3

MR. GOLDEN:

Let the record reflect

that the prospective juror, Danny Ray Walker, is out of the courtroom. There are no At this time, I
for cause

4
5
6
7

prospective jurors p r e s e n t .

w o u l d m o v e to c h a l l e n g e M r . W a l k e r

on the grounds that if a first degree murder

has b e e n p r o v e n b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t ,
t h a t t h e o n l y 'sentence for h i m w o u l d b e d e a t h ,

8

9
10
11
12

a l t h o u g h he would c o n s i d e r a l l mitigating
circumstances, he w o u l d l i s t e n t o a l l
evidence, he would wait until the e n d of the c a s e , f o r h i m e v e n a f t e r all t h a t , t h e o n l y

13
1 4

verdict for h i m would be death which means h e
cannot be fair and impartial. H e w o u l d be

15

classify as what we call a reverse W i t h e r s p o o n or at best a reverse W h i t t juror. One, he can't reasonably consider a life sentence; two, he can't - - or his view on the death penalty would impair him from making an impartial decision.
So w e w o u l d m o v e t o

16
17

,1 8
19

20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 3 1 32

challenge for him for cause. MR. T H O M P S O N : object.
W e would respectfully

And I disagree with Mr. Golden's

assertion as to his comments on if a first degree murder is proven to a hundred-percent certainty that he would automatically vote for death. The juror was clear in indicating

after hearing all the evidence in the penalty phase, after looking to the State's aggravating circumstance and considering any and all relevant mitigating factors and giving them their appropriate weight, only then and
269

5985

even after a further

l i n e of

questioning that

1;
[. I$ :
11CI

he would w a i t t o deliberate w i t h h i s f e l l o w jurors only then,
certain
of

i f

h e was a h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t
as t o t h e

I%’

Cd

a l l

the

evidence and

crime,

t h e n he w o u l d r e n d e r a d e a t h p e n a l t y .

H e i n d i c a t e d t h a t a l i f e s e n t e n c e would s t i l l
be a s e r i o u s o p t i o n e v e n u n d e r

I

1; c3
;$ ,

the hypothet

given by M r .
w h i c h
M r .

G o l d e n t o t h e armed r o b b e r y i n

G o l d e n e a r l i e r g o t h i m to c o m m i t t o

the

hundred- percent phrase which I believe t h e

j u r o r i n c o r r e c t l y w a s a s s u m i n g - - was referring to the guilty phase.
As

t o that,

Y o u r Honor, the juror

has indicated that he
a final decision

would c o n s i d e r a l l evidence i n t h e p e n a l t y
phase

b e f o r e he w o u l d make

w h i c h I b e l i e v e more t h a n q u a l i f i e s h i m t o
serve a s a j u r o r
THE COURT:

i n t h i s case. Any f u r t h e r a r g u m e n t ?
No,
A l l

MR. GOLDEN:
THE
COURT:

Your Honor.
right.
A f t e r

listening
it

t o t h e responses of t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r ,

appears a s t h o u g h t h e j u r o r c a n keep a n open
mind,
that

under c e r t a i n circumstances, but his

he

w o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ,

a n s w e r s i n d i c a t e t o t h e C o u r t t h a t h e c a n keep a n open mind u n t i l he has c o n s i d e r e d a l l

factors i n t h e death penalty;
Court w i l l deny the challenge

therefore,

the

f o r cause and

would n o t e your o b j e c t i o n t o t h e r u l i n g f o r
the

record,
MR.

Mr.

Golden,

for the defense.

GOLDEN:

Thank you,
A l l

Your Honor.
So n o t e d .

THE COURT:

right.

I

1

I s t h e r e a n y t h i n g t o p u t o n t h e record b e f o r e we bring t h e j u r o r s b a c k in?

I

2

3

M R . THOMPSON:
MR. GOLDEN:
THE COURT:

N o t h i n g b y the S t a t e .
No, Your Honor.

I am just going to release

Mr. Natale and let him go at this time.
7

P l e a s e bring t h e r e s t o f t h e j u r o r s i n .

8
9 10 THE COURT:
A l l right.

T h a n k a l l you

11
12
13

a g a i n f o r y o u r p a t i e n c e a n d c o o p e r a t i o n on today. I k n o w that t h i s h a s b e e n a d i f f i c u l t

p r o c e s s on y o u ; h o w e v e r , we h a v e c o m p l e t e d

14
15

t h i s p h a s e o f the voir d i r e e x a m i n a t i o n . we w i l l n e e d you t o c a l l b a c k t o m o r r o w a t

So

16 17

a b o u t n o o n , a n d they w i l l h a v e i n s t r u c t i o n s for Judge Mosely's jurors. g i v e you a c a l l - b a c k slip. She i s going to Please call back

18
19
20

a f t e r n o o n , but I w i l l i n s t r u c t y o u n o t t o w a t c h t h e n e w s a b o u t t h e c'ase.
Please d o not

21 22

l i s t e n t o r a d i o a c c o u n t s a n d p l e a s e d o not r e a d t h e newspaper. P l e a s e d o n o t w a t c h any

23
24

n e w s b e c a u s e I'm s u r e i t i s g o i n g t o b e on there. W i t h t h a t , you a l l a r e f r e e t o g o for the e v e n i n g . There is a number on the slip.

25

26 27

We will possibly start sequestration on Saturday. We will have instructions for you.

28 29
30
31 32

I t w i l l b e more than l i k e l y t o m o r r o w , b u t it w i l l t e l l you when t o c a l l b a c k . (Whereupon a discussion o f f the record was held. )
271

5987

THE C O U R T :

W i t h t h a t , y o u a l l a r e free

t o l e a v e a t t h i s point.
3
~

( W h e r e u p o n the v e n i r e p a n e l w a s e x c u s e d from

t h e courtroom.)
I
I

5

THE C O U R T :

W e w i l l be in r e c e s s f o r

I
I

6
7

a b o u t fifteen m i n u t e s . ( W h e r e u p o n a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . ) ( W h e r e u p o n the d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t w i t h

I
I

8

9
10
11
12

counsel. )
( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in the
courtroom.) THE COURT: Good evening, everyone. We

13
14
15

will try not to keep you here too late
tonight,
but

we a r e

trying

to

a d v a n c e a s far

a s w e p o s s i b l y c o u l d a n d t r y to c o m p l e t e this

16 17

p r o c e s s as s o o n a s p o s s i b l e . Let me say t h a t e v e r y p e r s o n c h a r g e d w i t h a felony in the S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a i s e n t i t l e d t o a t r i a l by jury a c c o r d i n g t o the l a w s o f the S t a t e of L o u i s i a n a a n d t h o s e o f the United S t a t e s C o n s t i t u t i o n .
I realize

18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

t h a t s e r v i n g on the j u r y may p r e s e n t an i n c o n v e n i e n c e for you o r a h a r d s h i p f o r y o u ; h o w e v e r , i t i s vitally i m p o r t a n t t h a t y o u s e r v e on the jury in o r d e r f o r o u r j u r y s y s t e m t o f u n c t i o n , i f it i s p o s s i b l e t h a t y o u can s e r v e o n t h e jury. Let me r e a d t o y o u t h e q u a l i f i c a t i o n s t h a t a r e r e q u i r e d of you in o r d e r t o s e r v e on the j u r y . O n e , you m u s t b e a c i t i z e n o f the

United S t a t e s and o f the S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a a n d h a v e r e s i d e d in C a d d o P a r i s h f o r a t l e a s t

1
2

one year prior to today.

T w o , you must be at T h r e e , you must

least eighteen years of age.

3

be able to read, write and s p e a k the English

4
5

language.

Four, you m u s t not b e

interdicted
of a m e n t a l o r

o r i n c a p a b l e of serving b e c a u s e
physical infirmity.

6
7

Five, you must not be

under indictment for a felony o r c o n v i c t e d of a felony for which you have n o t been pardoned.

8 9
10

Is there anyone with a n y s u r g e r i e s
s c h e d u l e d , vacations scheduled, a n y t h i n g

of

11 12

t h a t nature?
If you all would stand’ o v e r h e r e

13
14
15

against the wall, I will talk to you a b o u t

16
17

the qualifications that I read to you the five?
(No response. )

18

19
20 2 1 22 23
24

THE COURT:

A l l right.

(Whereupon a discussion o f f held. ) THE COURT:

the r e c o r d was

C a n you approach, please.

(Whereupon a side-bar discussion o f f the record was held.) THE COURT: to leave.
Ms. Crawford, you are free

25

26
27 28

Ms. Arnold, you are free t o leave.
(Whereupon the prospective j u r o r s were excused from the venire panel.)

29
30 3 1 32

T H E COURT:

Let m e i n t r o d u c e you to the

parties involved in the litigation o f t h i s

1

case.

Representing t h e S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a and

2
3
4

district attorney's office is the elected D i s t r i c t Attorney, Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t , Mr. Dhu T h o m p s o n , a n d Mr. B r a d y O ' C a l l a g h a n .

5
6

Representing the

accused is

M r . A l a n G o l d e n a n d Mr. D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y .

Ms. M i c h e l l e A n d r e P o n t a n d Mr. G l e n G a r r e t are
8 9
10

o u t f o r the moment. T h e a c c u s e d i s Mr. F e l t o n D o r s e y .
This t r i a l is expected to last

11

a p p r o x i m a t e l y t w o weeks.

T h i s i s w h a t we

12
13

c a l l , what i s commonly r e f e r r e d a s t o a lock- up jury. It is one where sequestration

14
15
16

will t a k e p l a c e .
tonight.

This will not happen

This will n o t h a p p e n in t h e next

c o u p l e d a y s , but i f you are s e l e c t e d t o serve on t h e jury, t h e n y o u w i l l b e r e q u i r e d t o s t a y a t t h e hotel with t h e o t h e r j u r o r s , a n d you will be taken care o f by the sheriff's department. I f you h a v e a n y t h i n g t h a t y o u n e e d t o s t a t e a b o u t the h a r d s h i p or t h e i n c o n v e n i e n c e , you c a n talk to the a t t o r n e y s , t h e y a r e going to ask you about it, but if you have something p r e s s i n g t h a t you n e e d t o t a l k a b o u t , y o u may s i m p l y say so, and they w i l l q u e s t i o n y o u a b o u t i t , a n d we w i l l g e t m o r e 'information a b o u t i t a t t h a t time. Madam c l e r k , p l e a s e c a l l t h e r o l l . ( W h e r e u p o n the v e n i r e r o l l wars t a k e n . )
T H E COURT:

17

18
19

20
21

22 23
24
25

26
27
28
29
30
31

Approach the bench, please.

(Whereupon a side- bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e
274

5990

I j
~

1

h a v e an o p p o r t u n i t y t o t a l k b a c k t o them. F e e l f r e e t o a s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t you may h a v e a b o u t what they are t a l k i n g a b o u t . There

2
3

I

4
5

may be some questions they c a n n o t answer a n d
t h e y w i l l tell you t h a t , b u t i f you w o u l d t o them r e s t a t e s o m e t h i n g o r t o e x p l a i n
l i k e

i

I I
I

7 8
9
10

s o m e t h i n g , they w i l l b e h a p p y t o d o t h a t f o r you. A s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t y o u m a y wish to

a s k a b o u t this p r o c e s s or a b o u t t h e t r i a l .
A l s o ,

t h e r e

are

no

r i g h t

and

wrong

11

answers.

The b e s t a n s w e r i s a t r u t h f u l

12

a n s w e r . I f you a r e a s k e d s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l i s t o o p e r s o n a l or t o o p r i v a t e t o d i s c u s s in t h e p r e s e n c e o f e v e r y o n e , s i m p l y s a y so and
w e w i l l t a l k with you p r i v a t e l y a b o u t

13 14
15

that

16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

matter outside the presence of the other
jurors. They are n o t g o i n g t o p r y i n t o your

l i f e t h a t much, but g e n e r a l s p e a k i n g s o m e t h i n g s t h a t you may n o t w a n t t o d i s c u s s openly, somethings about your feelings or certain other things. With that, is the State ready to proceed.
M R . O'CALLAGHAN:

Yes, Your Honor.

T h a n k y o u , sir. (Whereupon a PowerPoint presentation prepared by the S t a t e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e panel. )

30
31 32

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Q.
Good evening.

As t h e j u d g e t o l d y o u ,
276

5932

m y name is B r a d y O'Callaghan.

I'm an

assistant district attorney for Caddo Parish. I f y o u c a n ' t ' h e a r me, p l e a s e l e t me k n o w . I a m going to try to speak up, and I'm going to ask y o u , in t u r n , t h i s lady h e r e h a s t o t a k e d o w n e v e r y t h i n g that's said by everyone during the proceedings.

As you c a n s e e , the o n l y

m i c r o p h o n e in t h e g e n e r a l a r e a of w h e r e I ' m s t a n d i n g i s kind o f a i m e d a t m e , so p l e a s e , e s p e c i a l l y t h o s e o f y o u w h o a r e e i t h e r w a y on t h i s e n d o r b a c k in the c o r n e r t h e r e , m a k e sure that you are speaking loudly and clearly. S h e c a n ' t t a k e d o w n head n o d s . I k n o w t h a t most people have a fear of public speaking, t h a t i s p r o b a b l y n o t h o w you w a n t e d y o u r T h u r s d a y e v e n i n g , but we will t r y t o m a k e i t as q u i c k a n d p a i n l e s s as we p o s s i b l y c a n , given how serious this matter is.

The i s t h e c a s e o f t h e S t a t e o f
L o u i s i a n a vs. F e l t o n Dorsey. d e g r e e m u r d e r case.

This i s a f i r s t

First d e g r e e m u r d e r i s

o n e o f the only t w o c r i m e s i n t h e S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a f o r which the d e a t h p e n a l t y c a n b e i m p o s e d , a n d , t h e r e f o r e , we h a v e t o t a l k a b o u t s o m e very s e r i o u s issues, s o m e o f w h i c h a r e p e r s o n a l t o people.
As the J u d g e t o l d y o u , we

a r e n o t t r y i n g t o cause any e m b a r r a s s m e n t , b u t y o u r a t t i t u d e s and views a b o u t c e r t a i n i s s u e s a r e g o i n g t o be very i m p o r t a n t in d e t e r m i n i n g w h e t h e r you are an a p p r o p r i a t e j u r o r f o r t h i s case. Now, I h o p e e v e r y o n e u n d e r s t a n d s t h a t

we are n o t passing j u d g m e n t on h o w y o u are a s a person. You might b e i n a n o t h e r c a s e . It's

j u s t , w o u l d you make a g o o d j u r o r f o r t h i s

4
I

case.

That b ' e i n g s a i d , we can't t e l l you all
W e h a v e t o b e very

5
6 7

t h e d e t a i l s of this case.

I

v a g u e b e c a u s e if I got u p h e r e a n d t o l d m y

I
~

case a n d the d e f e n s e g o t u p and t o l d y o u t h e i r
c a s e , well, t h a t would be t h e t r i a l . h a v e t o s p e a k in examples. d e l i b e r a t e l y vague.

a
9
10

So we

We have to be

You know, w e a r e a l l

11

l a w y e r s , b u t we a r e n o t d o i n g i t o n p u r p o s e . W e do h a v e t o d o t h a t f o r t h e l a w . u n d e r s t a n d that. you anymore

12
13

So p l e a s e

Try n o t t o l e t i t f r u s t r a t e

14
15

than it already frustrates U S .

A l l t h a t being s a i d , I want t o m a k e

16
17

sure that I have everyone's name down. If I get y o u r n a m e wrong, p l e a s e c o r r e c t m e . As you may h a v e seen, I h a v e a s i l e n t
"GI'

18

in my name,

19 20
21
22

so I t r y t o pronounce p e o p l e ' s n a m e s
correctly. I s i t Mr. B u r k s ?
A.

( B y M r . B u r k s ) Yes. Ms. H a r r i s . ( B y Ms. H a r r i s ) Yes.
Ms. Williams.

23 24
25

Q.
A.

Q.
A.

26
27
28

( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) C o r r e c t . Mr. Dozier. ( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) C o r r e c t . Mr. Barnes.

Q.
A.

29
30 31

Q.
A.

(By M s . B a r n e s ) C o r r e c t .
M r . Yeates. ( B y Ms. Y e a t e s ) Yes.

Q.
A.

32

Q..
A.

Ms.

Mouser. Mouser)

(By M s .
Mr.

Yes,

sir.

Q.
A. Q.
A.
.

Smith. S m i t h ) Yes,

(By M r .
M r .

sir.

Dewitt.

(By M r .
Ms.

Dewett) Yes.

Q.
A.

Andrews.
A n d r e w s ) Yes.

(By M s .
Ms.

9
10

Q.
A.

Johnson. Johnson) Pierre. St. Yes.

(By M s .
Ms.

11 12

Q.
A.

St.

(By M s .

P i e r r e ) Yes.

13
14
15
I ' m

Q.

You a l l o v e r t h e r e a r e t h e o n e s t h a t
--

a little bit

is it Ms. Knowles in the

back there i n t h e

red

jacket?

16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

A.
front

(By M s .

St.

Pierre) Right here i n

.
You a r e i n t h e
I got

Q.

front.

Let me

j o t

t h a t down.

out of

o r d e r and w h i l e you
I

a l l were g e t t i n g s e a t e d ,

couldn't

s e e who

was g o i n g w h e r e .
Are
A.

you,

Ms.

Dennis,
Yes,

ma'am?

(By M s .

Dennis)

sir.

Q.
A.

And i t i s K n o w l e s ? (By M s .
L e t ' s

K n o w 1 . e ~ )Y e s .
Sir,

Q.
purple
A.

see.

t h e gentleman i n t h e Jones?

shirt,

a r e you M r .
Hodge)

(By M r .
I

Hodge. section

Q.

a p p a r e n t l y g o t t h a t whole

switched back. You a r e M r .
So,

Hodge. y o u -a r e

Mr.

Jones,

seated behind 279

5995

Mr. Hodge.

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes. Okay. I h a v e got o n e m o r e c h a n c e t o Mr. S t a p l e s , s i r ?

Q.

g e t i t right.

A.
Q.
A.

(By Mr. S t a p l e s ) Staples.
Okay.

Mr. Brown.

(By M r . B r o w n ) ( J u r o r r a i s e s h a n d . )
"

Q.

Of c o u r s e , M r . B r o w n h a s h i s name on

h i s j a c k e t w h i c h k i n d of g a v e me an u n f a i r advantage. Before I start asking you all q u e s t i o n s , I k i n d o f want t o g o o v e r o n e t h i n g , a n d t h a t ' s t h e i m p o r t a n c e of j u r o r s .

As c y n i c a l as people o f t e n are in t h i s
c o u n t r y , you k n o w , I t h i n k t h a t w h e n y o u m e a s u r e o u r s y s t e m a g a i n s t the s y s t e m s o f e v e r y o t h e r c o u n t r y o f t h e w o r l d , we c o m e o u t l o o k i n g very g o o d . We prioritize the rights

of the i n d i v i d u a l and in a d h e r e n c e t o t h e r u l e
of l a w t h a t i s rarely e q u a l e d .

T h a t being s a i d , when we c o m e i n h e r e in a p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r a n d a c i t i z e n , h o n e s t d i a l o g i s the purpose. Now, I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o s u g g e s t t h a t a n y b o d y w o u l d m i s l e a d in a n y w a y , but what I h a v e experienced i s f r i e n d s o f m i n e t h a t s a y what view d o I h a v e t o e x a g g e r a t e a 1 i t t l e . b i t t h a t w i l l g e t me o u t o f j u r y service. A n d I t h i n k it's a very h u m a n

n a t u r e , i t ' s very much human n a t u r e g i v e n especially the kind of case we're talking about to exaggerate.
I don't think you would

f l a t o u t m i s l e a d , that a t t i t u d e y o u f e e l a
280

c -

.

.-.-

1 2
I
I

l i t t l e b i t might s u d d e n l y b e c o m e a lot i f y o u t h i n k i t might get you o u t o f here. I j u s t w a n t t o make s u r e t h a t y o u ' r e a l l r e g i s t e r e d voters.
Has anyone, and I'm

3

4

not talking about

any s p e c i f i c election, but, Ms. S t . P i e r r e , h a v e y o u ever s e e n an e l e c t i o n a n d s a i d a n y time your life and said boy, I can't believe t h a t p e r s o n won?
10

I

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. S t .

P i e r r e ) Yes.

11

Did y o u vote in t h a t e l e c t i o n i n

12
13

which you were s u r p r i s e d ?

A.

(By M s . St. P i e r r e ) I d o n o t r e c a l l .

14

B u t I k n o w it h a s h a p p e n e d b e f o r e s o m e w h e r e

15
16
17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26

down t h e l i n e .

Q.

All I guess the p o i n t I ' m m a k i n g is,

i f y o u didn't s h o w u p a n d vote, a n d y o u w e r e

s u r p r i s e d a t the r e s u l t , d o l y o u h a v e m u c h standing to complain about it?
A.

( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) N o . Similarly, Ms. Johnson, have you ever

Q.

b e e n w a t c h i n g TV a n d s e e n a c r i m i n a l c a s e a n d s a i d , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e they l e t t h a t p e r s o n g o o r I c a n ' t b e l i e v e they c o n v i c t e d t h a t p e r s o n ?
A.

( B y M s . J o h n s o n ) Yes.

Q.

That's pretty typical reactions.

27 28 29 30
31

W e l l , p e o p l e w h o try n o t t o s e r v e o n j u r i e s very h a r d , i t ' s kind o f h a r d t o c o m p l a i n a b o u t c r i m i n a l verdicts if y o u ' r e n o t w i l l i n g t o s e r v e . N o w , a g a i n , there w i l l b e t h i n g s t h a t might make this a difficult case for you, it may b e b a d timing, it may b e t h e k i n d of c a s e
281

32

5997

t h a t j u s t i s g o i n g t o b e t o o h a r d f o r y o u . I'm n o t t r y i n g t o f o r c e y o u or s t r o n g - a r m y o u in a n y way t o a g r e e i n g to s e r v e . - I j u s t w a n t m a k e s u r e you a l l u n d e r s t a n d t h a t i t ' s a r e a l l y

important obligation and that you will give me
y o u r b e s t most honest answers. T h e r e a r e t w o p h a s e s o f v o i r d i r e in a c a p i t a l m u r d e r case. T h e f i r s t p h a s e is The first is

o n l y d e a l i n g with t h r e e issues.
10

sequestration.

What t h e judge was

talking

11

a b o u t t h i s b e i n g a lock- up j u r y , t h e j u r y w i l l b e sequestered. That's just our fancy legal Now, that doesn't
YOU

12

13

word for b e i n g l o c k e d u p .

14
15

mean in a jail c e l l .

It means t h a t

will

stay at a hotel, you'll be

fed by the sheriff.

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
~

T h e y t a k e you o u t t o r e s t a u r a n t s . T h e y d o n ' t f e e d you s h e r i f f f o o d . T h e y t a k e y o u o u t . You k n o w , from what I've h e a r d from s o m e p e o p l e , i t ' s a very welcomed vacation f r o m t h e i r f a m i l i e s , e s p e c i a l l y j u r o r s with s m a l l children seem to be eager to serve sometimes. T h a t b e i n g s a i d , I a l s o k n o w it c a n b e a n e x t r em e h a.r sh i p . d T h e s e c o n d a r e a we w i l l d i s c u s s i s pretrial publicity. N o w , a g a i n , we c a n ' t g e t

i n t o e v e r y d e t a i l o f t h i s c a s e , b u t we c a n t a l k i n very g e n e r a l t e r m s a b o u t w h a t t h e S t a t e h a s a l l e g e d , so t h a t i f y o u ' v e h e a r d a b o u t i t a n d h a v e formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d o p i n i o n , we c a n e x p l o r e t h a t t o see. Now, l e t me t e l l you o n e t h i n g a b o u t pretrial publicity, we're going to get to it
282

27 28 29 30 31 32

5998

' !

"\

'-'

,

in a m i n u t e , b u t I want t o k n o w t h a t y o u k n o w s o m e t h i n g n o t what y o u k n o w . B e c a u s e i f y o u

I

p i p e up a n d say, well, I ' v e a l r e a d y d e c i d e d
P

and,

well,

now

you

just

told

everybody

else

s o m e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t they w o u l d n ' t h a v e h a d a n d w e want t o p r e s e r v e the o p e n - m i n d e d n e s s o f e v e r y juror. So please d o n ' t t e l l m e w h a t you m i g h t h a v e h e a r d in t h e g e n e r a l v o i r d i r e ,

9
10 11

j u s t that you h a v e

heard something if Y O U

12

is your views about the death penalty. Again,

13
14
'

that's p e r s o n a l b u s i n e s s , I d o n ' t like getting
into p e o p l e ' s personal b u s i n e s s l b u t t h a t ' s m y
j o b i n t h i s k i n d of c a s e . T h e S t a t e i s s e e k i n g t h e d e a t h penalty in t h i s c a s e , as M r . T h o m p s o n , m y s e l f a n d the d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y , a n d so b o t h s i d e s n e e d t o k n o w y o u r v i e w s a b o u t i t because b o t h s i d e s a r e e n t i t l e d to have jurors that are open to both the p o s s i b i l i t y of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t a n d c a p i t a l

15
16

17

18 19

20 21 22 23
24

I

p u n i s h m e n t a s a s e n t e n c e in a f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r case.
Is everybody with m e o n w h a t w e ' r e

25

g o i n g t o b e t a l k i n g about. A.
A.

26
27

( B y Mr. B u r k s ) Yes. ( B y M s . H a r r i s ) Yes. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) Yes.

28
29

A. A. A. A. A.

( B y M r . D o z i e r ) Yes. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Yes. (By Ms. Y e a t e s ) Yes. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.
283

30

31
32

FYI
I
+rr

1
2

A.
A. A. A.

( B y M s . M o u s e r ) Yes. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) Yes. ( B y Ms. D e n n i s ) Yes. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes.

rirri F:l

3
4

A.
A.
A.
8

(By Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.
( B y Mr. Staples) Y e s .
( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes. Sequestration. Sequestration means
\

Q.

9
10

y o u w i l l h a v e n o c o n t a c t with a n y o n e ,
including
your

children

or

your

spouses,

11

e x c e p t t h r o u g h the s h e r i f f ' s o f f i c e .

Now,

12

I ' v e n e v e r b e e n s e q u e s t e r e d m y s e l f , so I d o n ' t k n o w e x a c t l y what t h a t means, b u t y o u a r e pretty much c u t o f f life.

13

14
15

f r o m t h e rest of y o u r

A r r a n g e m e n t s are m a d e , t h i n g s a r e p u t

16
17

in p l a c e w h e r e if s o m e o n e you w o u l d c a r e a b o u t or i s c l o s e t o you h a s an e m e r g e n c y , t h e y w i l l b e a b l e t o c o n t a c t the s h e r i f f ' s o f f i c e a n d then the j u d g e will m a k e a d e c i s i o n , w e l l , y o u k n o w , t h a t ' s a f a m i l y c r i s i s , you k n o w . A n d t h a t ' s why we pick a l t e r n a t e j u r o r s in c a s e s o m e o n e h a s a problem l i k e t h a t .
So don't

18 19 20

21
22 23

t h i n k t h e w o r l d c a n fall d o w n a r o u n d y o u w h i l e you a r e s e q u e s t e r e d , but a t t h e s a m e t i m e , y o u won't be calling and chitchatting with anyone in y o u r family. You w i l l b e l i v i n g i n a h o t e l . You

24

25

26
27
28 29 30
i

w i l l h a v e l i m i t e d TV a n d n e w s p a p e r e x p o s u r e . W e d o n ' t want you t o s e e s o m e s t o r y in t h e p r e s s a b o u t h o w the trial w a s g o i n g a n d h a v e t h a t a f f e c t y o u r mind.
I mean, i f you t h o u g h t

31

32

a w i t n e s s d i d a g r e a t j o b , t h a t ' s w h a t we c a r e

... ...

1
2

about.

W d o n ' t want you t o s e e on t h e p r e s s e
s a y s t h a t w i t n e s s bombed, o r anything l i k e t h e lawyers'

t h a t some r e p o r t e r

3

well,

maybe t h e y d i d bomb,

4
5
6
7

t h a t . It's t h e Court's j o b a n d

j o b t o make s u r e t h a t t h e v e r d i c t i n t h i s c a s e
i s based on t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t i s p r e s e n t e d here i n court, n o t what you m i g h t see on TV o r

8

read i n t h e paper.

9
10
Well,

No o n e i s s e q u e s t e r e d b e f o r e F r i d a y .
that

was put I

on

there

as

an

early

11
12

prediction.

t h i n k n o o n e i s l i k e l y t o be
So

sequestered before Saturday a t t h i s point. i n othe'r words, when w e f i n i s h h e r e , won't even i f

13

14
15

it g o e s i n t o t o m o r r o w , y o u

turn around

and s u d d e n l y have t o have your bags packed.
There w i l l
be

16
17

a t i m e where

you'll

s t i l l ' h a v e t o go through general v o i r dire,
a n d t h e n a t s o m e p o i n t a f t e r y o u were s e l e c t e d

18
19 20
21

after general voir dire,
opportunity I believe to, f a m i l y know,
get your

you w i l l be g i v e n t h e you know, l e t your
call

stuff

together,

22

e v e r y b o d y you need t o c a l l a n d t h e n g o p u t your as.a stuff juror.
So a l l

23 24
25

a t t h e h o t e l a n d be r e a d y t o s e r v e

of

that

being said,

I ' m

done

26
27

t a l k i n g f o r a minute, you a l l ,
Ms.

and I j u s t want t o a s k d o you t h i n k t h a t you

Mouser,

28
29

c o u l d s e r v e as a j u r o r o r would s e q u e s t r a t i o n present a hardship?
A.

30
31 32

(By M s .

Mouser)

I could serve.

Q.

Thank you,

ma'am.
M r .

How a b o u t y o u ,

Smith?

1
2
3
4

A.

( B y Mr. Smith) I b e l i e v e I c o u l d .
Do you h a v e any r e s e r v a t i o n s ?
(By Mr. Smith) Well, I am have a job

Q.
A.

in l i n e t h a t I h a v e t o g o t h r o u g h t r a i n i n g .

5
6
7

A n d that w o u l d b e the only t h i n g t h a t w o u l d

stop me.

Q.
be? A.

W h e n is t h a t t r a i n i n g t o s u p p o s e d t o

8
9

( B y M r . S m i t h ) As s o o n a s I g e t d o n e

10
11
12
13

with t h i s .

Q.

If you called y o u r b o s s a n d s a y ,

l o o k , I g o t picked f o r a very i m p o r t a n t c a s e ,

you k n o w , they a r e n o t l e t t i n g me g o , do y o u
t h i n k t h e y , w o u l d understand and keep your job
1

14
15

16
17

I
I

f o r you? A. ( B y Mr. S m i t h ) S h e a l r e a d y d o e s

understand, actually.

18
19

Q.

O k a y . Well, good. T h a n k s , M r . S m i t h . Mr. D e w i t t , h o w you a b o u t , s i r ?

20

A.

( B y Mr. D e w e t t ) I d o n ' t t h i n k I would I do have a question.

21
22 23 24 25

have problem.

Q.
A.

Yes , sir. (By Mr. Dewett) The company I work

f o r h a s m e s c h e d u l e d f o r o u t of t o w n s t a r t i n g M e m o r i a l Day for t h r e e d a y s ; i s t h a t g o i n g t o b e within the t e r m ?

26
27
28
29 30

Q.

You k n o w , I w o u l d t e l l y o u t o p r e s u m e It's possible that we would

t h a t it w i l l b e .

b e f i n i s h e d b e f o r e then, but I d o n ' t w a n t t o t e l l y o u t h a t we w i l l b e a n d t h e n y o u n o t be. You k n o w , t h e r e ' s t o o many v a r i a b l e s . You

31

32

h a v e a w i t n e s s t h a t we think w i l l t e n m i n u t e s
287

6003

a,
3

w
0

a
l

w
-rl

a
C
-4

7
0

5
0

. a
4
rd

x

c ,

s

h c,

i a,
l

c,

m
0

c
3

m

c
cn cn
-4

rd

! 4

c ,

a, h
0
I

c
cr
r e
0 0

m

A
0 k

7
0

a
7
O
$1

r.
5
O

C
-4

a,
Q

a a
4

h

.

a
E a,
k 7
0
c. \

0
C

c

h c, 5

a
U

h
a, 3 c , r d 5
H

*
7 d
I

o

.E
0
-J l

3
0

c
'

2

c* m
4 J

'

k 4 J . r l 7 m -0

c

0

m
0

.
r e
a
3

E

Q
m
3

c,

c
E-l

rd

m
k
0

3
0 h
C 0

h

-rl

7 a , o c a , o w 4 J a , ? + c ,
h
E
m
d 4~ T S

m

m

A 3
O

A

E
h

O

3 3 :

m

3
O

-

E a,

c
3

c , c , c , c c ,
a, 3 a,
m

a,

@ 0

-

c, a,
c

c, a, ,
.
a

c
m 3
k

-4

c

7
0 0

m

a
s

0

-d

0

m

k a,

V

c a
c,
m
E 7

c 0
0
C -4

a ,
. Q

k

m
k

3 a,

c
.

C

o
C

C

m

,

m

o
0

!

a, 4
k

. L !

C

3

-u
-4

x
k 0

a

3
4J

m
a ,

a, a
.

m
U

d
,

a

c

a ,

c
0
C

c 4
0

k m

c

a m

,
-4

a, b

b

~

3 c ,

h

c

a,

c,

x m

a,

u

o

a
4

3
0

. k

m
7
o n

a

.

c

6
c
0

k -4

0
I

5
0

,

c,

u - l
a,
-rl

5

c
cr

h a,

c c ,
c , m

a

.c,
k

c
-4

c
TI

3
0

c , a ,

a -4 c a
I) I

E
0

c

-

m

h

7

o

N

-4
I

cn
C rd
4

a

l -rl

4

01

<

a a
l

0

&

<

0

Q)

c

a,

V 7

l

k 0

c,

-n

3

.c

Ll K i

3
0
H

3

3 a,
Q

a

u

0

7 0

E

3
I

l

I

1
2
I

n o t i n t o the w h o l e t h i n g o f b e i n g v e r y c o n f i n e d for, e v e n though i t i s a h o t e l , o b v i o u s l y , b u t being c o n f i n e d w i t h n o c o n t a c t
with

3
4

family,

f r i e n d s , any of t h a t s t u f f .

It

5

k i n d o f m a k e s me r e a l l y a n x i o u s . I t w o u l d a l s o b e a h a r d s h i p w i t h work.

6

7

Q.

W h a t k i n d o f work d o y o u d o , m a ' a m ?

8
9

A.
Q.
A.

( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) I'm a college

instructor. Okay. Where do you teach? ( B y M s . S t . P i e r r e ) At N o r t h w e s t e r n . A n d what is t h e a c a d e m i c s c h e d u l e o f

10 11

12
13

Q.

Northwestern?

14
15

A.

( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) I a m a s t a r t i n g

new s u m m e r c l a s s o n M o n d a y .

16 17
18

Q.
A.

Okay. (By Ms. St. Pierre) And then I'm also

s t a r t i n g t w o o t h e r s u m m e r c l a s s e s in t w o weeks.

19
20

Q.

When you say " t w o w e e k s , " w o u l d t h a t

21

b e t w o w e e k s from n e x t M o n d a y ? A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) I believe it's

22
23 24
25

t w o w e e k s f r o m n e x t Monday. I w a n t t o s a y t h e 2nd. I c a n get t h e s c h e d u l e m o r e c o n f i r m e d i f

you n e e d i t .
Q.

26 27 28 29 30 31 32

I c a n ' t p r o m i s e you a b o u t t h e 2 n d ,

b u t I f e e l reasonably c o n f i d e n t i t w o u l d o k a y . W e w i l l c o m e back t o the a n x i e t y i s s u e , b u t a s far a s t h e o n e c l a s s , d o y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d g e t s o m e b o d y t o cover the f i r s t c o u p l e o f lectu'res o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , s o m e b o d y e l s e in t h e d e p a r t m e n t in w h i c h you t e a c h ?
289

6005

1
2

A.

(By Ms. St. Pierre) I can check on

it. I'm not sure what everyone else's summer schedule is.

3
4
5

Q.
anxiety,

Ma'am, what y o u ' r e saying about the
that's

not the first t i m e I ' v e

heard

6

that.

We've heard a lot about the notion that

7

you are going to be shuffled around and you are not to have a lot of say in your schedule

8

9
10
11

for a while is a n x i e t y c a u s i n g
people.

for a lot o f

A.

(By M s . St. Pierre) Uh-huh. Given that, you know, if you don't

12

Q.

13
14

serve and because of that, somebody else might
have
to, do
you

think that

i f given that

this

15

is not - - and I don't mean to make light of

16

any crime - - but this is not a trespassing case.
A.

17

18
19

(By Ms. St. Pierre) I understand. This i s serious business. D o you

Q.

20 21 22
23 24
25 26

think that your anxiety would distract you from listening to evidence and witnesses, if you were selected as a juror in the case?
A.

(By Ms. St. Pierre) It depends on the
I don't know.

circumstances.

Q.

Okay. I guess, I mean, if you don't

know, you don't know. Would you give it your best if you were selected?

27

28 29

A.

(By M s . St. Pierre) I would give it

my best, yes.

30
31
32

Q.

Thank you, Ms. St. Pierre. Ms. Dennis, how about you, m a ' a m .

A.

(By M s . Dennis) What was the
290

6006

1

q u e st i o n ?

2
3

Q.

Would sequestration impose a hardship

if you had to be locked up?

4
5

A.

.(By Ms. D e n n i s ) No.
Again, g o i n g t o a
hotel,

Q.

just

kind

of

6
7
8

k e p t a w a y from the rest o f t h e w o r l d f o r a l i t t l e while.
A.

(By Ms. Dennis) (Juror shakes head.)

9
10
11
12
13
14
15

Q.
A.

That's o k a y f o r y o u .
( B y Ms. D e n n i s ) ( J u r o r
nods head.)

Q.
A.

H o w a b o u t you, Ms. K n o w l e s . (By Ms. Kn,owles) Yes.

I would have

t o say yes.

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s )

I h a v e six k i d s a t

16

home.

I h a v e custody o f m y t h r e e n e p h e w s , a n d

17 18 19

I h a v e t h r e e k i d s of m y o w n , a n d m y h u s b a n d

works nights.

Q.

What's the age range on the

20 21

grandkids?

A.
thirteen.

(By Ms. Knowles) F r o m three to

22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29

Q.

Is t h e r e any f a m i l y m e m b e r t h a t c o u l d

s t e p u p - - I mean, I k n o w t h a t ' s a s k i n g a lot - - but is there anybody else that could h e l p s u b s t i t u t e while you were s e q u e s t e r e d for, you k n o w , o n e or t w o w e e k s ?
A.

( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) M a y b e m y

m o t h e r - i n - l a w , probably i n t h e d a y t i m e . M a y b e h e r b e c a u s e s h e works nights, a l s o .

30
31
32

Q.
A.

Is there - -

(By M s . Knowles) That's about it.

_-

-.
bp r

I

Y J

b
1'
2 3
4

Q.
nights?
A.

Is t h e r e anybody t h a t c o u l d c o v e r t h e

s:9

rn

Zh

2i

(By M s .

Knowles)

No o n e t h a t I c a n

depend on d o i n g i t , no.
Q.
Thank

you, M s .

,Knowles.

IRr
Q

I

Mr.
A.

Jones,

how a b o u t y o u ,

sir?

Ma

(By M r .
It

Jones)

It's a possibility.

8

Q.

is a possibility.
( J u r o r nods head.)
t h a t

9
10
11
12

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s )

Q.

Anything i n p a r t i c u l a r

you would

n e e d t o know b e f o r e y o u c o u l d g e t g o i n g ? mean,

I

d o you h a v e a n e m p l o y e r t h a t you n e e d t o

13
14

check w i t h ' o r anything l i k e t h a t ?
A.
(By M r .
J o n e s ) Well,
i t ' s
probably

15
16

hard w i t h m e

w i t h my

job because w e have and

p e o p l e t a k i n g v a c a t i o n s coming up soon, t h e y f i l l t h e s c h e d u l e s where a s e t o f employees have t o cover them.

17
18

I

I

19

Q.
A.

Okay. (By M r . J o n e s ) A n d l i k e w i t h my h o m e ,

20
21 22

y o u know,

m e a n d my w i f e h a v e a s e t s c h e d u l e

where w e have two k i d s a n d where

o n e w o u l d be

23 24

able t o t a k e care of

one a t one t i m e and a t

d i f f e r e n t times.

25

Q.
A.

What

k i n d of

work d o you d o ?

26
27

(By M r .
A r e

Jones) Hotel bellhop.
there are

Q.

you aware i f

28
29
30 31 32

s p e c i f i c a l l y vacations planned f o r your fellow employees f o r t h e n e x t two weeks o r s o ?
A.

(By M r .
he's

J o n e s ) Yeah.

One g u y ,
H e ' s

he's

a

foreman,

g o i n g back home.

a big

a s s e t t o t h e company a n d l i k e t h e s h i f t t h a t ' s

292

U I

cn
01

1
2

t w o , b u t f o r t w o weeks, no.

Q.

S i r , d o you think y o u r c o n c e r n a b o u t

3
4

your wife's ability to go to work and do
whatever
she

needs

to d o w o u l d d i s t r a c t Y O U

if

5

you were selected as a juror?

6
7

A.

( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Y e s , i t would.

Q.

Do y o u f e e l . t h a t i t w o u l d p r e v e n t y o u

8
9
10

f r o m g i v i n g either s i d e a f a i r t r i a l b a s e d on the e v i d e n c e ? A. ( B y M r . B r o w n ) Yes, i t would. How a b o u t you, Mr. S t a p l e s ? ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I h a v e p e r s o n a l

11

Q.
A.

12

13
14
15

convictions in r e g a r d s t o the c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e
system.

Q.

Okay. A n d , you k n o w , I a m h a p p y t o

16
17

t a l k t o you a b o u t t h a t in j u s t a m i n u t e .
A.

(By Mr. Staples) Okay.
I want t o j u s t s t a y f o c u s e d o n t h e

18
19

Q.

s e q u e s t r a t i o n i s s u e f o r r i g h t now. A n d t h e n a l i t t l e l a t e r in the voir d i r e , I t h i n k t h e r e would be a good opportunity for us to explore t h o s e a n d s e e if i t ' s g o i n g t o i m p a i r y o u t o o much. A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I w o u l d l i k e t o

20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26

e x p l a i n i t in p r i v a t e w i t h t h e j u d g e a n d t h e c o u r t officials.

27
28
29

Q.

W e c a n make t h o s e a r r a n g e m e n t s . I ' l l

make a note.
A.

(By Mr. Staples) Okay. J u s t focusing on the s e q u e s t r a t i o n

30 31 32

Q.

i s s u e , w o u l d i t p r e s e n t a h a r d s h i p fo'r y o u , Mr. Staples?
296

6012

i

'

'..d

-.

/

*

Fj'lP

r 1

I>!
1 2

A.

(By M r . S t a p l e s ) I t would. C a n you e x p l a i n , please. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) W e l l , f i n a n c i a l l y .

2 F l t v
CY
@I
I

S$

Q.
A.

wp,

3
4

I'ifJ
klld

I only h a v e a part- time job.

I'rd

6 3
RJf4

5
6
7
8
9 10 11 12 13

Q.

I f you were t o m i s s , a m I c o r r e c t in

rsr

g a t h e r i n g t h a t you w o n ' t g e t p a i d i f y o u d o n ' t work?

Q

c;;%

$0

A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I w o n ' t g e t p a i d . W o u l d the l o s t i n c o m e f r o m a w e e k o r

Q.

t w o of sequestration

put you i n d i r e f i n a n c i a l
or rent

s t r a i t s a s f a r as any house payments or anything like that?
A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Y e s , i t w o u l d .

14
15
16 17
18

Q.

Do you feel that your concerns

about

the f i n a n c i a l s i t u a t i o n m i g h t k e e p y o u f r o m g i v i n g b o t h s i d e s a fair t r i a l a n d t h a t y o u might b e d i s t r a c t e d f r o m h e a r i n g a l l t h e e v i d e n c e a n d listening t o t h e a r g u m e n t s o f t h e lawyers?

19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

A.

( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) I b e l i e v e my

opinions that I have to express to the Court i n r e g a r d s t o the s y s t e m , I t h i n k t h a t m i g h t b e m o r e d e t r i m e n t a l in say t h i s g e n t l e m a n h a v i n g a f a i r trial.

Q.

O k a y . Thank y o u , e v e r y o n e . Well, I haven't done the front row,

h a v e I. far.

T h a n k e v e r y o n e I h a v e t a l k e d t o so

Mr. B u r k s , h o w a b o u t y o u , s i r ?
A.

( B y Mr. B u r k s ) W e l l , m y j o b t h e y ' r e

s u p p o s e d to s c h e d u l e for my j o b t w o w e e k s in advance. 297

6013

1
2

Q.
A.

Okay. ( B y Mr. B u r k s ) But I d o n ' t t h i n k I

3

would have a n issue.

Q.
5
6
7

I mean, you k n o w , i f s o m e b o d y g e t s

sick, they'd have to make accommodations - -

A.

( B y Mr. Burks) I ' m l i k e t h e o n l y

p e r s o n t h a t ' s a c t u a l l y t h a t they h a v e f o r m y

shift to w o r k at nights.
9
Q.
Okay. ( B y M r . B u r k s ) For t h a t - - a n y t i m e

10
11
12
13

A.

they t r y to c o v e r i t , they u s u a l l y h a v e i s s u e s a t t i m e s , b u t I d o n ' t t h i n k they w i l l h a v e a n issue.
I d o n ' t know.
I'll

check with them.

14
15
16
17

Q.

You w i l l c h e c k with y o u r e m p l o y e r . O t h e r than i f y o u r

T h a n k s , M r . Burks.

e m p l o y e r s a y s , well, i t w i l l b e h a r d , b u t we c a n m a k e d u e , o t h e r than t h a t any o t h e r i s s u e s with the s e q u e s t r a t i o n ?
A.

18

19
20

( B y M r . B u r k s ) No, n o t a t a l l .
How a b o u t
you,

Q.
A.

Ms.

Harris.

21
22

( B y Ms. H a r r i s ) N o n e .

Q.
A.

No problems?

23
24

(By Ms. Harris) I can vent some, but

I won't.

25

Q.

Hence, why we g i v e you t h e b i g m o r a l e Thank you,

26
27 28 29

l e c t u r e a t the beginning. M s . Harris.

How you a b o u t y o u , M s . W i l l i a m s .
A.

( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k i t

30

would be a problem.

31
32

Q.
A.

Mr. Dozier. ( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) No p r o b l e m .

1
2
3

Q.
A.

Ms. Barnes. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) Y e s , i t w o u l d b e a

problem for me.

4
5
6

Q.
A.

Okay.

Can y o u e l a b o r a t e ?

( B y M s . Barnes) I have f o u r k i d a t

h o m e , t h r e e , five, seven and f i f t e e n , a n d I a l s o s t a r t c l a s s e s on Monday.

7

8
9

Q.
ma am?
A.

Where w i l l you b e s t a r t i n g c l a s s e s ,

10 11

(By Ms. Barnes) Northwestern.

And I

also work.

12

Q.

I s t h a t Northwestern n u r s i n g o r t h e

13
1 4

s a t e l l i t e campus h e r e or i s t h a t o v e r i n
Natchitoches? A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) In N a t c h i t o c h e s . I n Natchitoches. If your professors

15
16
17

Q.

were w i l l i n g t o g i v e you a p a s s , h o w m u c h would the child care issue be a problem? Are

18
19 20

there family members or friends close here in town that might be able to help you out?

21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32

A.

( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Y e s , they m i g h t b e . S o m e o n e might b e a b l e t o help? (By Ms. B a r n e s ) Um- hum. Have you already paid for your

Q.
A.

Q.

c l a s s e s in a d v a n c e ?

A.

(By Ms. B a r n e s ) R i g h t . Ma’am, how big a hardship would it

Q.
be?

I m e a n , I d o n ’ t h a v e a n y way o f g e t t i n g

into your head and talk to you about it. A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) I t ’ s a h a r d s h i p . I’m

t h e s o l e p r o v i d e r for them.

Q.

So in addition t o a t t e n d i n g s c h o o l in

1

Natchitoches,
A.

you a r e a l s o employed, Barnes) Right.

ma'am?

2
3

(By M s .
Are

Q.

you i n a s i t u a t i o n where i f

you

4
5

don't work, y o u d o n ' t g e t p a i d ?
A.
( B y Ms.

Barnes)

Yes.

6
7

Q.

Do y o u t h i n k t h a t l o s i n g y o u r i n c o m e

stream f o r a week o r two w o u l d i m p o s e problems
o n m a k i n g b i l l s an'd t h i n g s l i k e t h a t ?
A. Q.

a
9
10

(By M s .
Okay.

Barnes)
DO
YOU

Yes,

f o r two weeks.

feel t h a t your

concerns
t o

11

about p r o v i d i n g and a r r a n g i n g c h i l d care, missing school, m i s s i n g work,

12

m i s s i n g money,

13
1 4

do you t h i n k t h a t t h o s e t h i n g s w o u l d d i s t r a c t
you

if y o u ' r e

selected as a j u r o r ,

o r could

15

you

set that

aside and pay a t t e n t i o n t o t h e

16
17

evidence?
A.

(By M s . I mean,

Barnes)

I'd

be w o r r i e d a b o u t

ia
19

them.

i t ' s hard t o s a y .

Q.

Thank you.
Ms.

20

Yeates,

how a b o u t y o u .
I have no p r o b l e m .

21
22 23 24 25 26 27

A.

(By M s . Now,
The

Yeates)

Q.

thank everyone. next i s s u e t h a t I wanted t o

d i s c u s s w i t h you a l l i s p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y .
I ' m

t a l k i n g louder i n hopes t h a t it w i l l Again,
we've
I

e n c o u r a g e you t o a l s o t a l k l o u d l y . c a n ' t go i n t o e v e r y d e t a i l .
agreed,
What

28
29
30

you know,

the

l a w s o r t of

lets u s give

very,

v e r y broad s t r o k e s .
The

S t a t e h a s a l l e g e d t h a t t h i s crime
1,

31 32

of

f i r s t degree murder o c c u r r e d on A p r i l
That

2006.

it occurred a t

300

6816

\

!

-'

i

8845

Greenwood Springridge Road which is on You

H i g h w a y 169, n e a r G r e e n w o o d , L o u i s i a n a .

go way w e s t a n d you g o s o m e s o u t h .

The victim

was a gentleman named Joe Prock.

And the

State alleges that he was m u r d e r e d , a n d h i s
m o t h e r , Ms. Bobbie P r o c k , w a s i n j u r e d d u r i n g the c r i m e a t t h a t location. T h i s c a s e was i n v e s t i g a t e d b y t h e

9
10

Caddo P a r i s h S h e r i f f ' s O f f i c e p r i m a r i l y w i t h
a s s i s t a n c e from o t h e r a g e n c i e s , b u t i f y o u d i d

11
12
13
1 4

see i t on T V , you probably w o u l d h a v e s e e n
some brown sheriffs uniforms and things like that.
NOW,

again

I

don't

w a n t

t o

k n o w

w h a t

15

y o u k n o w , o n l y t h a t you k n o w , a n d t h e n I w i l l h a v e a c o u p l e follow- up questions. M r . B r o w n , h a v e you h e a r d a b o u t t h i s case?

16
17

18
19

A.

(By M r . B r o w n ) Yes. B a s e d on what you h a v e h e a r d , w h e r e

20

Q.

21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

d i d y o u h e a r what you h e a r d ?
A.

( B y Mr. B r o w n ) I r e a d i t i n t h e paper

a n d s a w i t on the news.

Q.

W a s t h a t back when i t h a p p e n e d o r

m o r e r e c e n t l y t a l k i n g a b o u t the t r i a l c o m i n g up?
A.

( B y M r . B r o w n ) I think i t w a s S u n d a y . Okay. Based on what y o u s a w o r

Q.

h e a r d , a g a i n without t e l l i n g me w h a t i t w a s , h a v e you f o r m e d any c o n c l u s i o n a b o u t Mr. Dorsey's guilt?
A.

30
3 1 32

( B y M r . Brown) Yes.

a,
Q

e

o

c

b-l

( u

c,
-4

c

0

m

-4

c, a,
[) I

c
c
rd

c, h

0

z

0

h

c
3
0

m

k

7 0

Q

.a

O c,

L c,

Ll

[) I

A

4

rd

m

... .
!--'/

\

;;e : 2
Q.
I n e e d you t o s a y y e a or n a y f o r the

1)'
'

rn
el

court reporter.

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes. You d o n ' t a c t u a l l y h a v e t o s a y " y e a " say yes o r no.

Q.
or

r r n a y , " you c a n

I'm s o r r y ,

Mr. J o n e s .

Yes?

A.

(By Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

Q.

Do you think t h a t t h a t p r e c o n c e p t i o n

a b o u t Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t i s s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u
would bring with
you i n t o

the

courtroom

and

w o u l d a f f e c t your a b i l i t y t o s e r v e f a i r l y a s a juror in this case?

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No.

Q.
do that?
A.

If the judge said make the decision

I
I

b a s e d o n the e v i d e n c e , d o y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Right.

W i t h t h e way I

l o o k e d a t t h i s c a s e , y e a h , when i t h a p p e n e d , yeah.

Q.

W h a t I ' m saying i s , y o u k n o w , what

you s e e on t h e n e w s i s n ' t - - l e t m e t a l k a b o u t that just real quick. things. There's a couple of

W i t h a l l d u e t o my c o l l e a g u e s a n d

f r i e n d s in t h e p r e s s - - a n d I ' m f r i e n d s with s o m e r e p o r t e r s and a l l t h a t - - y o u k n o w , n e w s s t o r i e s are not evidence. They are trying to

pick out the sound bites that you'll stay t u n e d for.
So they usually gi+e y o u j u s t

k i n d of h i g h l i g h t s and l i t t l e s n i p p e t s , a n d s o m e t i m e s t h e y make grave a n d s i g n i f i c a n t m i s t a k e s . In fact, the worst m i s t a k e I t h i n k t h e y ' v e e v e r made i s t o s h o w me o n TV w i t h a
303

0
v e r y c o n f u s i n g t o my m o t h e r . Given t h a t ,

!

'L,
I

f r i e n d o f m i n e ' s name u n d e r my f a c e , w h i c h was

t h a t they c a n ' t even get b u t they t r y and

t h e name r i g h t s o m e t i m e s ,

they get a l o t o f s t u f f right, I'm not trying
t o j u s t b a s h them, t o say is,

b u t what I guess I ' m t r y i n g

s o m e t i m e s i t ' s d a n g e r o u s t o r e l y on And w h a t t h e

t h e way a s t o r y i s r e p o r t e d .

j u d g e would t e l l you i s t h e d e c i s i o n t h a t you make i n t h i s c a s e h a s

t o be b a s e d o n t h e
in the trial.

evidence t h a t t h e sides present

Do y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d b a s e y o u r d e c i s i o n o n t h e evidence p r e s e n t e d i n the t r i a l o r would you be a f f e c t e d b y w h a t you s a w o n T V ?

A.
TV.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) P r o b a b l y w h a t I saw o n

Q.

Okay.

Fair

enough.
Mr.

How a b o u t y o u ,

Hodge?

D i d

you

see a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h i s case o r read a n y t h i n g ?
A.

(By M r .

Hodge)

Yes,

on t h e news.

Q.

B a c k when i t h a p p e n e d o r m o r e

recently before the t r i a l ?
A.

(By M r .
Based

Hodge) Bot,h.
did

Q.
you

on what you s a w a n d heard,

form any o p i n i o n about M r .
A.

Dorsey's g u i l t ?

(By M r .

Hodge)

Yes.

Q.

Do y o u t h i n k t h a t y o u c o u l d s e t t h a t

p r e c o n c e p t i o n aside a n d make your d e c i s i o n
based on t h e e v i d e n c e you h e a r d

from t h e

witness s t a n d i n t h e courtroom?
A.

(By M r .

Hodge)

I

t h i n k I w o u l d be

open.

1
2

Q.

You t h i n k y o u w o u l d b e o p e n .
So i f

Okay.

F a i r enough.

t h e j u d g e t o l d what you focus on

3

h e a r d o n t h e n e w s may n o t b e r i g h t ,
the

evidence,
A.

do you think you
Hodge)

c o u l d do t h a t ?

(By M r .

Yes.

Q.
7
8

Thank you,

sir.
Ms.

How a b o u t y o u ,

Johnson.

Have y o u

heard anything about t h i s case?
A.
i t when

9
10

(By M s .
it
first

Johnson)
happened

Yes,
and

I heard about
then

on

the

n e w s

recently.

12

Q.

Have y o u f o r m e d a n y c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t .

Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t b a s e d o n t h e n e w s c o v e r a g e
14

you have s e e n ?
A.

1

15

(By M s .

Johnson) No. y o u were a s k e d you c o u l d

16 17

Q.

Do y o u t h i n k t h a t i f

t o serve as a j u r o r i n t h i s case,

18
19

f a i r l y l i s t e n t o t h e e v i d e n c e a n d make a d e c i s i o n on t h a t ?
A.

20 21 22
23 24 25
M r .

(By M s .

Johnson) ma'am.

Yes.

Q.

Thank you,

How a b o u t y o u ,
A.

ma'am?

Ms.

Dennis.

(By M s .
Have

Dennis) Y e s ,

I ' v e heard.

Q.

you

formed any conclusions about

Dorsey's guilt?
A.

26

(By M s .
I ' m

Dennis) No.

27
28
29

Q.
A.

sorry. Dennis) No.
over

(By M s .
I

Q.
A.

talked

you.

30

(By M s .
No.

Dennis) No.
If

31
32

Q.

Thank you.

we are both
Beggs has t o t r y
305

t a l k i n g a t t h e same t i m e ,

Ms.

6021

.- ..

1
2

to decide w h o to take down.

So if you were selected a s a j u r o r in
this c a s e , d o you believe that you c o u l d in

3

.4
5
6

f a c t make a d e c i s i o n based on the

e v i d e n c e you

heard in the courtroom rather t h a n what you
may have seen o n the news?

A.

(By Ms. Dennis) Yes. Thank you, ma'am.

Q.

Ms. St. Pierre, how a b o u t y o u , ma'am.
10
Have

y o u heard anything about

this c a s e ?

'

'

11

A.

(By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes. Did you form any conclusion b a s e d o n

12

Q.

13

what you heard - - well, l e t me a s k first, when

14
15
16
17

did you hear what you heard, b a c k when it
happened, more recently - A.

(By Ms. St. Pierre) B o t h . Both. Based o n that, d i d you form a n y

Q.

18 19

conclusions about the defendant's g u i l t ?
A.

(By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes. Do you think that u n d e r s t a n d i n g that

20
21

Q.

s o m e t i m e s the media g e t s things wrong, c o u l d you s e t t h a t aside and base your v e r d i c t i n the case o n the evidence only that you heard inside the courtroom?
A.

22
23 24

25
26 27 28 29 30
31

(By M s . St. Pierre) Probably not. Probably not. (By Ms. St. Pierre) N o .
D o you feel that what you b e l i e v e to

Q.
A.

Q.

be the facts i s . s u c h a strong opinion t h a t i t would come i n t o the courtroom with y o u ?
G .

A.

(By M s . S t . Pierre) Probably. T h a n k y o u , ma'am.

32

i

Q.

,

.. .

Mr.

Burks,

h a v e you h e a r d a n y t h i n g

m
r:3

iE

4
5

6
7

guilt?
A.

8
9

(By M r .

Burks)

Yes,

I have.

Q.

DO

YOU

t h i n k t h a t you c o u l d

set that
think

I

10

c o n v i c t i o n -- ' n o pun

i n t e n d e d -- do you

11
12

you c o u l d s e t t h a t b e l i e f

aside and focus your
you h e a r d i n

d e c i s i o n s on t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t

13
14
15

the courtroom r a t h e r than
notions
A.

your preconceived

from t h e news?
(By M r .

Burks)

I

w i l l be

open t o

16
17

listen

t o both

sides.
t h o u g h y o u may h a v e a n y o u c o u l d s t i l l be Dorsey?

Q.
opinion,

So even

18
19

you

feel that

unbiased towards o r against M r .
A.

I

20

(By M r .

Burks)

Yes. Thank you, Ms.

21 22
23
24

Q.

And t h e S t a t e . How a b o u t y o u ,

sir.
Have y o u

Harris.

heard anything about t h i s
A.

case?
No.

(By M s . Nothing

Harris)

25

Q.
i n here
A.

t h a t might

a f f e c t you

coming

26
27 28 29 30

at a l l ?
(By M s . Okay.
Harris)
No.

Q.

Thank you,
Ms.

ma'am.
Johnson.

How a b o u t y o u ,
A.

I
now?
307

(By M s .

Johnson)

No. outside effect

31
32

Q.

Is t h a t a no p o s s i b l e

from anything you've

heard up u n t i l

60'23

V '

A.

(By M s . J o h n s o n ) No. I ' m a lawyer. We h a v e t o a s k t h e

Q.

e x a c t s a m e q u e s t i o n twice t w o d i f f e r e n t ways. I t ' s j u s t - - they teach u s t h a t in l a w s c h o o l .

How a b o u t y o u , Ms. A n d r e w s .
A.
(By Ms. Andrews) No, I a m not

f a m i l i a r a t all.

a
9
10

Q.

So n o t h i n g that w o u l d a f f e c t y o u r

a b i l i t y t o s e r v e f a i r l y a n d i m p a r t i a l l y , you
don't have any preconceptions?

11

A.

( B y M s . Andrews)

No, sir.

12

Q.
A.

H o w a b o u t y o u , Ms. W i l l i a m s . (By Ms. Williams) I heard about it

13

'1 4
15

when i t h a p p e n e d a n d t h e n o n t h e news,
Q.
B a s e d on what y o u saw, was t h a t on TV, newspaper - A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) O n T V . B a s e d on t h a t , h a v e y o u f o r m e d a n y

16
17
18
19

Q.

c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t ?
A.

20
21

( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) No. Do you think t h a t y o u c o u l d k e e p a

Q.

22
23
24 25

f a i r a n d o p e n mind if you were s e l e c t e d as, a j u r o r in t h i s c a s e ? A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) Yes. H o w a b o u t you, Mr. Dozier. ( B y Mr. Dozier) I h e a r d a b o u t i t w h e n

Q.
A.

26
27
28

i t h a p p e n e d in '06.

Q.

Based o n what you h e a r d b a c k t h e n ,

29
30
31
32

d i d y o u reach any c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t ?
A.

( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) No, s i r . D o you think t h a t you c o u l d b e f a i r
308

Q.

6024

1

a n d i m p a r t i a l a n d l e a v e w h a t e v e r y o u h e a r d on t h e T V o r the paper back w h e r e i t w a s and f o c u s o n the e v i d e n c e p r e s e n t e d in t h e c a s e ?

A.

( B y Mr. Dozier) Y e s , I c o u l d . Thank youf Mr. D o z i e r . H o w a b o u t y o u , Mr. D e w e t t .

Q.
6
7

8
9
10

I

A.

( B y Mr. D e w e t t ) I d o n o t r e c a l l

h e a r i n g or s e e i n g anything.

Q.
you

So n o p r e c o n c e p t i o n t h a t w o u l d a f f e c t
a

as

juror?

11

A.

( B y M r . D e w e t t ) No. Thank you, sir. H o w a b o u t y o u , Mr. S m i t h .

12 13

Q.

14
15

A.

(By M r . S m i t h ) I h a d h e a r d t h a t i t
That's all I heard.

16
17

I

was j u s t a m u r d e r trial.

Q.
you?

So t h a t w o u l d n ' t n e c e s s a r i l y a f f e c t

18
19
20

A.

( B y Mr. S m i t h ) No, sir. You could be f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l ? (By Mr. S m i t h ) Yes, s i r . How a b o u t y o u f Ms. B a r n e s . (By M s . B a r n e s ) Y e s , I h a v e . B a s e d on what you - - I ' d a s k t h a t y o u

Q.
A.

2 1 22
23 24 25

Q.
A.

Q.

s p e a k u p b e c a u s e you a r e in s o r t of t h e farthest.

26
27

A.
Q.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) O k a y . Based on what you h a v e h e a r d , h a v e

28
29

you f o r m e d a n y p r e c o n c e i v e d n o t i o n s a b o u t Mr. Dorsey's guilt?

30
I

A.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) No.
Do you think t h a t t h a t p r e t r i a l

31

Q.

32

p u b l i c i t y t o w h i c h you w e r e e x p o s e d w o u l d
309

6 0 23
Y

.-

a f f e c t y o u i n a n y way o r c o u l d y o u

f o c u s on

t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t was p r e s ' e n t e d i n t h e c a s e ?

Q*

T h a n k you, ma'am.
Ms. M o u s e r ,
I t h i n k you

know w h a t

I

I

am g o i n g t o a s k y o u .
A.

(By M s .

Mouser)

I do.

Q.
10
11
12
case?
A.

Have y o u h e a r d a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h i s

(By M s .

Mouser)

I heard about

it

when i t h a p p e n e d ,

but since then I have not

13
14

seen or heard anything about it.

Q.
coverage,
M r .

( B Y Ms. M o u s e r )
did

Based on t h a t

15

you f o r m a n y o p i n i o n a b o u t guilt?

16

Dorsey's
A.

17

(By M s .

Mouser) N o .

18
19

Q.

D o you t h i n k t h a t e v e n t h o u g h y o u ' v e

s e e n a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t it on t h e news -- d i d you see a l i t t l e b i t o r a l o t ?
A.

20
21 22 23 24

(By M s .

Mouser)

I

just

s a w i t when

it

first happened and I d i d n ' t

-- I d o n ' t

usually

g e t home i n t i m e t o w a t c h t h e e v e n i n g n e w s .
So I

d o n ' t know.

25
26
27

Q.
about Mr.
A.

Do y o u b r i n g i n a n y p r e c o n c e p t i o n s Dorsey's (By M s . guilt?

Mouser) No.
ma'am.

28
29

Q.

Thank you,
Ms.

Yeates. Yeates)

30 31 32

A.

(By M s .

J u s t Sunday a b o u t

j u r y s e l e c t i o n i s t h e f i r s t I heard a b o u t it.

Q.

D i d anything

i n t h a t s t o r y make you

310

6026

Ik

x
b e l i e v e h e w a s g u i l t y or n o t g u i l t y ? A. minded.
4

mr

$1

( B y M s . Yeates) No.

I am open-

M R . O'CALLAGHAN:
Your Honor. THE COURT:

May we approach,

5

6

You may.

7

( W h e r e u p o n a side- bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e record was held.)

8

9
10
11
12

(Whereupon the venire p a n e l was e x c u s e d f r o m
the courtroom.) ( W h e r e u p o n the d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t with counsel. ) MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N : .Your H o n o r , b a c k on
o f the

13
14
15

t h e record, w e a r e outside the p r e s e n c e

prospective jurors.

W e w e r e d i s c u s s i n g a t the

16 17

b e n c h , the S t a t e w o u l d s u g g e s t s u b j e c t t o a n y defense counsel's objection returning those jurors who expressed significant hardships about sequestration, expressed significant preconceived opinions based on pretrial p u b l i c i t y , a n d I would l i k e t o b r i n g b a c k Mr. S t a p l e s t o f i n d o u t what h i s i s s u e s with the e n t i r e c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e . ( W h e r e u p o n t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in the courtroom.) THE COURT: That's fine right there,

18
19

20

21
22 23 24
25

26 27

Mr. S t a p l e s . W e j u s t b r o u g h t y o u i n t o a s k you a f e w q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e of the o t h e r jurors.
I s the S t a t e r e a d y p r o c e e d .

28
29
30

31 32
I

MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N :

Yes, Your Honor.

T h a n k y o u , sir.

. -

\

..-

~

1
2

,I
I

F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

3

BY M R . O ' C A L L A G H A N :

4
5

Q.

Mr. S t a p l e s , y o u v o i c e d some

--

I

d o n ' t want t o p u t w o r d s i n y o u r m o u t h - - some grave concerns or some attitudes about the c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e t h a t you felt n e e d e d to b e e x p l o r e d privately. T h i s is as a b o u t a s
private as we can get.
If

6 7

8
9

you

could

share

10
11
12

t h a t w i t h u s , so you c a n l e t u s k n o w i f you think t h a t ' s going t o a f f e c t y o u r j u r y service.

13
14
15
16
17

A.

(By M r . S t a p l e s ) I d o n o t f u l l y
the

embrace the criminal j u s t i c e s y s t e m d u e t o f a c t tha't I h a d the e x p e r i e n c e o f s o m e

s o - c a l l e d i n j u s t i c e s in g r o w i n g u p i n C h i c a g o . I was b o r n a n d raised in C h i c a g o .

18
19

Q.
A.
'70s.

Okay. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) D u r i n g t h e '60s a n d

20 '2 1 22 23
,

Q.
A.

And that was a turbulent time. Very t u r b u l e n t t i m e , v e r y t u r b u l e n t .

Q.

Do you f e e l that t h o s e a t t i t u d e s a n d

24 25 26 27 28

t h o s e e x p e r i e n c e s in C h i c a g o , y o u k n o w , t w o t h i n g s , o n e , I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o a r g u e wit'h y o u . I ' m j u s t t r y i n g to g e t h o w y o u f e e l . A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) O k a y . A n d m a y b e we d i s a g r e e on t h i s , b u t i t

Q.

29
30 31 32

h a s b e e n a while. A. years. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) About f o r t y - o n e

Q.

It's a different, you know, different
312

($028

.-

1
~

time.

Do you think that you still have some

CJ

2
~

issues with the criminal justice system even though that time has passed and there have been a lot of changes in our country?

3
4

A.
Q.

(By

Mr. S t a p l e s ) I s t i l l h a v e issues.

Do you think that those would impair

you from being a fair juror to either side?

A.

(By Mr. Staples) They would.

Q.
10

I'll just go ahead and ask, I think I

know, but which side

do you f e e l l i k e Y O U

11

would have problem accepting or giving a fair shake? A. (By Mr. Staples) Well, as I said

12 13
14
15

before, I just don't embrace the system wholeheartedly.

I do respect the

laws which

16 17

were say implemented say by the f e d e r a l government, state governments or local governments, so on.
I do respect and abide by

18

19

the laws, but so far as participating in the say penalties that are being issued for breaking those laws, I d o n ' t feel that I would a good person to have that power delegated to someone.

20 21 22 23
24

Q.

Do you think you would find it really

25 26
27 28 29 30
31

hard to ever convict anyone of a crime? A. (By Mr. Staples) I would, I would.

Q.

I mean, I appreciate your c a n d o r .

So

is there anything that I say or the defense lawyer likely t o change your view a b o u t that?
A.

(By Mr. Staples) The events that

occurred made a very profound effect o n my, say, psyche o r existence or whatever. And if
313

32

6029

you would like for me to elaborate, I would.

Q.

I mean, if you feel comfortable.

I'm

not - - I need to know whether or not you can

be a fair juror.

I need to know that.

And I
to

feel like you are telling m e , if you want

share what happened to make that clearer, by all means. A. (By Mr. Staples) I guess you could
'60s.

c p
'

say I'm a throwback to t h e

I was, like
There

I said, attending school i n C h i c a g o .

was an incident that occurred at one of the elementary schools where a child was struck by

a bus.

And there was no stoplight at this

particular intersection where the s c h o o l k i d s
would

frequent,

say,

after school.

And a

friend of mine, personal friend of mine, by the Johnny Sotre, he organized a protest to, say, protest against the city and the other people in power or whatever to have a stop light installed at this particular corner. This went on for I guess several weeks a n d , o f course, the city gave in and the stoplight was installed. And several weeks after this had

occurred,, this young gentleman was gunned down by a member of the Chicago Police Department. And it was the usual scenario which was given in, say, as a result of something like this, it was said that he was stopped t o be questioned and a scuffled ensued, the gun went off and the ricochet hit him in the b a c k of the head. Okay. Now, on the day o f his

funeral - - this was once again in Chicago - 314

6030

h i s b r o t h e r was summoned. Vietnam.

He was s e r v i n g in

H i s o l d e r b r o t h e r was s u m m o n e d to

c o m e h o m e f o r t h e funeral. O n t h e d a y of h i s f u n e r a l , h i s o l d e r b r o t h e r was a l s o g u n n e d down by the Chicago Police Department. This
was

u n d e r the p r e t e n s e that he h a d r o b b e d P Grocery store after the funeral.

the

A

&

And

this, like I said, these incidents of, I would call them, just flagrant injustice, you know,

i t ’ s j u s t made a p r o f o u n d effect or

i m p a c t on

m e , and I h a v e r e s e r v a t i o n s a b o u t t h e
so-called criminal justice system in that regard. Also, the n i g h t t h a t - - y o u p r o b a b l y
heard
about
it

-- t h e Fred Hampton,

M a r k C l a r k , the former l e a d e r s of t h e C h i c a g o B l a c k P a n t h e r Party o r w h a t e v e r , they w e r e a s s a s s i n a t e d , a n d t h i s w a s a t t h e beh.est o r t h e d i r e c t i o n of t h e s t a t e s a t t o r n e y . w a s the o r d e r t h a t was g i v e n d o w n f r o m t h e s t a t e s a t t o r n e y s office. A n d of c o u r s e t h e This

s t a t e a t t o r n e y , E d w a r d B. H a n r a h a n . ’ A n d t h e m o r n i n g t h a t t h i s o c c u r r e d , I w a s , c o m i n g from what we c a l l a g i g , I was a m u s i c i a n , I p l a y e d with a band. A n d I w a s j o s t l e d by t h e C h i c a g o

police, four members of the Chicago Police D e p a r t m e n t , a n d I was searched. There was no

p r o b a b l e c a u s e f o r t h a t search. I w a s searched. M y i n s t r u m e n t was t a k e n a p a r t a n d And I

so o n , a n d I was k i n d of r o u g h e d u p .

d i d n ’ t k n o w what h a d h a p p e n e d p r e v i o u s t o t h i s until I had gotten to school the next morning.
315

6031.

And, like I said, that's another one o f the r e a s o n s t h a t ' s going t o b e p a r t o f m y

conviction is to having this

feeling in
--

regards the c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e s y s t e m . Also

Q.
A.

Mr. S t a p l e s , l e t me s t o p y o u t h e r e .
( B y Mr. Staples) O k a y . I think I get everything you're

Q.

s a y i n g a n d I feel t h a t i t ' s f a i r t o s a y y o u
9
feel strongly

about this?

10 11

A.

( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) I r e a l l y do. MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N :
I appreciate it, sir.

12

I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o c u t you o f f .

I think I

13
14
15

understand where you're coming f r o m .
THE J U R O R :
( B y Mr. Staples) T h a n k you. No further questions, M R . -0'CALLAGHAN: Y o u r Honor.

16

17
18

VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N
BY MR. GOLDEN:

19 20 21
22 23 24

Q.

Mr. S t a p l e s , d e s p i t e o u r f a i l i n g s i n

the p a s t a n d d e s p i t e t h e e r r o r s t h a t w e m a d e , c a n y o u t h i n k o f any s y s t e m o f j u s t i c e in t h e world that's better than ours?
A.

(By Mr. S t a p l e s ) N o , I cannot. W h o d o you t h i n k m a k e s o u r s y s t e m

25

Q.
work? A.

26 27 28 29
30
3 1 32

(By Mr. Staples) Well, the people. W h o i s the g r e a t l e v e l e r o f t h e

Q.
truth? A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . ) W h a t i s the g r e a t l e v e l e r o f a l l m e n ;

Q.

i s n ' t i t the jury s y s t e m ?
316,

.-

A. it is.
3
4
5

( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) When i t w o r k s , y e s , But s t i l l again, you ha've t o r e a l i z e

t h a t t h e j u r y s y s t e m you s t i l l h a v e t h e human e l e m e n t involved. We, a s h u m a n b e i n g s , a r e

governed by our e m o t i o n s , a n d a l o t o f e m o t i o n s are j u s t inherent.

6
7

Q.
A.

True. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) T h a t s a y of l o v e ,

8

9
10

h a t e , a n g e r a n d h a p p i n e s s a n d so on, t h e r e ' s
always going

t o be

that

variable

there,

that

11

i s g o i n g t o affect the o u t c o m e , t h e t o t a l o u t c o m e of any d e c i s i o n t h a t m i g h t b e m a d e by a s o - c a l l e d jur.y.

12

13

14
15

Q.
A.

Mr. S t a p l e s .
( B Y M r . S t a p l e s ) Yes, sir.
Do you believe t h a t s o m e t i m e s j u r o r s
\

16

Q.

17

make bad decisions? A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) Y e s , t h e y do. A n d as a result of t h o s e b a d

18 19
20

Q.

d e c i s i o n s , t h e r e a r e s o m e t i m e s m i s c a r r i a g e s of justice?

21
22 23 24 25
26

A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Yes. And s o m e t i m e s t h o s e m i s c a r r i a g e s

Q.

r e s u l t in w r o n g f u l c o n v i c t i o n s .
A.

(By Mr. S t a p l e s ) Um- hum. Wrongful sentences, right? (By Mr. Staples) That's right. S o m e t i m e s w r o n g f u l a c q u i t t a l s of

Q.
A.

27 28 29 30 31 32

Q.

s o m e b o d y w h o i s really g u i l t y .
A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) T h a t ' s r i g h t .

It

works both ways.

Q.

A n d in o r d e r t o m a k e i t b e t t e r o r

..-.

I
I

1
2
3

m o r e p e r f e c t t a k e s g o o d p e o p l e , d o e s n ' t it?

A.

(By Mr. Staples) I t d o e s . Are y o u a m a n of c o n v i c t i o n ?

Q.

4
5

A.

(By Mr. Staples) I am a man of

conviction, sir.

Q.

You a r e a man w h o ' s n o t o n l y s e e n b u t

a p p a r e n t l y experienced s o m e w r o n g d o i n g ?

A.
9

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I h a v e l i v e d t h r o u g h

it.

I d i d n ' t t e l l you a b o u t t h e s h a k e d o w n

by

10

the p o l i c e - -

11 12
'

Q.

T h a t ' s o k a y , but I u n d e r s t a n d y o u

went t h r o u g h a l o t .

13
14
15

A.

(By Mr. Staples) Yeah, i t was q u i t e a

bit, v e r y traumatic.
Q.
L e t ' s say you were a r r e s t e d f o r a

16
17
18

c r i m e r i g h t , right h e r e , what k i n d of j u r o r w o u l d you want to d e c i d e t h a t c a s e ?
A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) (No response.) D e c i d e your c a s e , y o u r g u i l t o r

19

Q.

20 21 22 23 24
25

innocence?
A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) W e l l , m o s t o f a l l ,

you w o u l d want an i m p a r t i a l j u r o r , s o m e o n e w h o i s n o t going. t o s a y l o o k a t c e r t a i n a s p e c t s of the character.

I mean, the way you

d r e s s , the way you t a l k , the way y o u l o o k , a n d

26 27
28

so o n , t h a t ' s i m p a r t i a l .

Q.
A.

Somebody who is impartial? ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) Impartial. You w o u l d want s o m e o n e w h o ' s

29 30 31 32

Q.

objective?
A.

( B y M r . Staples) O b j e c t i v e , y e s . Someone who is articulate.

Q.

..--.
1 ,

I "

e

A.

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Yes. S o m e b o d y who i s d i l i g e n t i n l i s t e n i n g

Q.

to the evidence and analyzing the evidence,
4

right?
A.

5

( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Y e s , s i r . C o u l d you be s u c h a person? ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k so,

6
7

Q.
A.
no.

8

9
10
11
12

Q.
A.

Why couldn't you b e ?
( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I couldn't be

objective. deep.

I c o u l d n ' t be.

T h e scars a r e t o o

T h e s c a r s are t o o d e e p .

13
14

Q.

S e e , h e r e ' s what I am h a v i n g a

p r o b l e m with.
A.

15

( B y M r . Staples) O k a y .

16
17

Q.

Is t h a t you'.re c o m p l a i n i n g a b o u t a

s y s t e m t h a t you f e e l i s s o m e t i m e s u n j u s t a n d y e t , you u n d e r s t a n d what the b a s i c f l a w s a r e t h a t we h a v e s o m e t i m e s , a n d ' y e t b e c a u s e of y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g , you w o u l d s e e m l i k e t h e perfect juror who could help remedy that, but y e t y o u are unwilling t o put i n t h a t p o s i t i o n t o h e l p make it b e t t e r . inconsistency?
A. Do you s e e t h e

18
19

20
21 22 23 24 25
26

( B y Mr. ,Staples) W e l l , I g u e s s y o u

c o u l d s a y i t ' s an i n c o n s i s t e n c y t h e r e , b u t I j u s t d o n ' t buy i n t o i t .
I don't.

27 28 29 30 31 32

You speak

o f j u s t i c e h e r e in the'se, you c a l l t h e s e h a l l s o f j u s t i c e o r the c o u r t h o u s e , t h i s i s t h e p l a c e w h e r e justice i s a d m i n i s t e r e d a n d so on.

I c a m e t o S h r e v e p o r t in 1975.

Okay.

T h e r e was a n issue s o m e y e a r s b a c k , I d o n ' t
319

1
2

mean to get off the subject, but I guess it would be considered also in regards t o say the law, in front of the courthouse, the Confederate flag f l i e s . , Okay. T h i s a symbol

m
E 3

3

4

of one of the most, to m e , one

o f the most

h e i n o u s crimes ever committed t o a n o t h e r
member of the human race, and I just d o n ' t see how you could say that, I mean, you're here
9

for justice, and then again you overlook this great injustice by

10
11
12
13

continuing to f l y this flag
I

which continues to say put salt in the w o u n d s of say people of color, I don't buy it. d o n ' t buy it. And it i s not - -

14
15
16
17
18

Q*
A.

Mr. Staples.
(By Mr. Staples) - - prejudice or

anything like that, but it's just the idea.

Q.
A.

Mr. Staples. (By Mr. Staples) It's contradicting.

19
20 21 22
23 24 25

You are contradicting yourself.

Q.

We can't solve all the problems of

the world.
A.

(By Mr. Staples) N o , we can't. But right now we have a specific case

Q.

that's coming to trial for a very, very serious offense, and we are trying to make this the best system that we can. conscientious people to d o that. I t takes And what you

26
27
28 29

have expressed are conscientious scruples about a variety of issues.
So that tells me

30
31

that you 'are conscientious person; am I right?
A.

(By Mr. Staples) You are right. But yet you don't want to h e l p make
320

32

Q.

6036

I

the system better by adding yourself, your conscientious self into the process a s a conscientious decision-maker. to give us the b e n e f i t of your You don't want

insights,.your

objective way o f looking at things. A.

( B y Mr. Staples) No, I don't.
You're saying you could not be fair

Q.

and impartial?
9

A.

( B Y Mr. Staples) I could n o t b e

fair

10 11

and impartial.

Like I said, I don't embrace
I ' l l abide by the

the system wholeheartedly. laws.

12

I will not break the laws and t h a t ' s a s

13
14
15

f a r a s I can go with i t . That's as f a r a s I
can go.
0

Q.

You are unwilling t o help U S

16
17

administer it, though; is that what you're saying? A. (By Mr. Staples) Yes, that's the best

18

19
20

I can do.
MR.

GOLDEN:

Thank

you.

2 1

N o further questions.

22 23 24 25

THE COURT: State?

Anything further by the

MR. 0'CALLAGHA.N: THE COURT: Mr. Staples.

No, Your Honor.
Thank you,

All right.

26
27 28 29
30 31

You may return outside, and we

will call you back shortly. (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused from the courtroom.) MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, the State

would move to excuse Mr. Staples for cause, his inability to be fair and impartial, his
321

32

6037

I

1
2

I
I

,

I

(Whereupon a discussion off the record was held.) THE COURT:
t h i s process and

3

4

A n d t h e n we w i l l c o n t i n u e h o p e f u l l y g e t y o u o u t in a

I

few h o u r s . It w i l l t a k e a f e w h o u r s o n tomorrow.

Also p l e a s e d o n o t w a t c h t h e n e w s

t o n i g h t . P l e a s e d o n o t r e a d any n e w s p a p e r s about the case or listen to any radio accounts
10

o f the c a s e o r d i s c u s s t h e

matter with a n y o n e
With

11

a n d p l e a s e d o n o t f o r m any o p i n i o n s . t h a t mind, you a r e f r e e t o l e a v e .

12

13
14

(Whereupon the prospective jurors were excused
f r o m the courtroom.)

I

15
16

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was held.) THE COURT: Let's just do it in a group

17

18
19
20

s e t t i n g . Do y o u want t o t e n d e r f o r t h i s p u r p o s e t o Mr. G o l d e n , t o t h e d e f e n s e t e a m , a n d s e e h o w t h e i r p o s i t i o n s a r e w i t h it? MR. G O L D E N :
THE COURT:

21 22 23 24
25 26

That's fine, Your Honor. W e w i l l b r i n g t h e m i n and

let defense counsel question them. (Whereupon the prospective jurors were seated in the courtroom.) THE COURT: to proceed. M r . G o l d e n , a r e y o u ready

27
28

MR. GOLDEN:
THE COURT:

Yes, Your Honor.
All right.

29
30 31

32

323

; E

2

0

1
2

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
B Y MR. G O L D E N :

m r:;P
It
1

,*I*

3

Q.

The ones that are here right now, I

(1

PA1

4
5
6
7

t h i n k a l l of you

expressed that you would have

I'h (I

Q
klbl

a h a r d s h i p with s e r v i n g o n t h e jury for a w e e k o r t w o , a lock- up jury; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

P, 1(
Q

(9
u3

A. A.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Yes. ( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) Yes.

8

9
10
11
12

A.
A.
A. A.

(By Ms. Knowles) Yes.
( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes.
( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes. ( B y M r . B r o w n ) Yes.

13
1 4

Q.
since
you

I ' l l s t a r t with y o u , Ms. B a r n e s ,
are
closest

to m e .

I think y o u

said

15

you h a d t h r e e or f o u r c h i l d r e n ?

16
17

A.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Four. Are you m a r r i e d ? (By M s . B a r n e s ) Yes. S e p a r a t e d . Separated.

Q.
A.

18
19

Q.

I f you h a d t o s e r v e , is

20
21 22 23 24
25

t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e who c o u l d w a t c h y o u r c h i l d r e n l i k e your h u s b a n d , y o u r e x - h u s b a n d ?

A.
shift.

( B y M s . B a r n e s ) He w o r k s g r a v e y a r d

Q.

So y o u w o u l d h a v e n o b o d y t o w a t c h

them a t n i g h t ?

26
27

A.

( B y M s . B a r n e s ) My m o t h e r o r m y

,

mother-in-law.

28
29 30

Q.
A.

So a r r a n g e m e n t s c o u l d b e m a d e . ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes. O t h e r than that, d o y o u h a v e a n y

Q.

31
32

other hardships?

A.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) N o .
,

324

ti 0 4 0

1

Q.
made? A.

And you think arrangements could be

2

3

(By M s . Barnes) Could be.

4
5

Q.

As far as pretrial publicity, you had

heard something but h a d n o o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ? A. (By M s . Barnes) No.

6

7
8

Q.
A.

Ms. St. Pierre.
(By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.

9
10
11

Q.
A.

You h e a r d s o m e t h i n g l a b o u t t h i s , b u t
(By M s . St. Pierre) No, I heard

you have no opinion at this point?

12

something about it, and I did have an opinion.

13
1 4

QA.

You did have an opinion?
(By M S . St. P i e r r e ) Y e s .

15

Q.
A.

D o you have a strong opinion?

16 17 18
19 20

(By Ms. St. Pierre) A fairly strong

opinion.

Q.

Is it an opin'ion that you feel you

cannot - - you would be unable to s e t aside? A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) It would b e

21
22

difficult for me to set it aside.

Q.

And you think that would prevent you

23 24
25

from being and impartial?
A.

(By M s . St. Pierre) Yes, sir. Sometimes we ask people t o d o

Q.

26 27 28
29
30

difficult things like forget something or set something aside. A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Um-hum.
I f we asked you to do it, would you

Q.

b e able to d o it? A. (By M s . St. Pierre) I would try to. Could you give us any guarantee that
325

31 32

Q.

6041.

y o u w o u l d totally be able t o d o that?

A.

( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) I c o u l d n o t

g u a r a n t e e it.

Q.

Do' you think i t w o u l d r e a s o n a b l y

p r e v e n t you from being impartial?
A.
( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) Yes. When I s a y "reasonably p r e v e n t , " I ' m

Q.

asking, would there be a reasonable likelihood t h a t i t w o u l d interfere with y o u r a b i l i t y t o
be

impartial?

A.

( B y M s . St. Pierre) Yes. D e s p i t e what we w o u l d t e l l y o u . (By Ms. St. Pierre) Um-hum.

Q.
A.

Q.
A.

Okay. Thank you, Ms. S t . Pierre.
Ms. Knowles.
( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) Yes. Your h a r d s h i p a g a i n w a s w h a t ? (By M s . K n o w l e s ) I h a v e s i x k i d s a t
My husband works nights and there is no

Q.
A.
home.

o n e t o w a t c h them o v e r n i g h t .

My mother-in-law

m a y b e c a n watch them in t h e d a y t i m e b u t n o t a t night.

Q.

You c o u l d n ' t m a k e a r r a n g e m e n t s t o

t a k e c a r e of them a t n i g h t ?
A.

( B y M s . K n o w l e s ) No. T h a n k you. O h , b y t h e w a y , y o u

Q.

m e n t i o n e d t h a t you a l s o h a d k n o w l e d g e o f t h e case?
A.

(By Ms. Knowles) I had seen some of

i t when i t f i r s t h a p p e n e d a n d o n t h e n e w s t h i s week.

Q.

D i d you form any o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ?
326

6042

~~

1
2
3

A.

( B y M s . K n o w l e s ) No, I d i d n ' t . Are you Mr. J o n e s ? ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) J o n e s . Y o u would h a v e a s l i g h t h a r d s h i p ,

Q.
A.

4

Q.
that
YOU

5
6
7

would l o s e some money?
( B y Mr. J o n e s ) I t won't - - it will be

A.

a hardship, not a slight.

8

Q.
said?

You work on a n h o u r l y b a s i s , y o u

9
10
11

A.

(By Mr.

Jones) Yes, most of my income

c o m e s from t i p s .

12
13

Q.

There's no arrangements for making up

t h e i n c o m e i f you h a v e t o d o j u r y s e r v i c e ?

14
15

A.

(By M r . J o n e s ) N o .

Q.

Y O U said you had some knowledge a b o u t

16
17
18

the case.
A. ( B y M r . J o n e s ) W h e n it f i r s t

h a p p e n e d , you k n o w , I l o o k e d a t i t a n d t h a t w a s it. Never d e e p i n t o it.
Do you h a v e any o p i n i o n a b o u t t h i s

19 20 21 22 23

Q.
case?
A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) F r o m what I s a w , I

m a d e an o p i n i o n a b o u t it.

24
25

Q.
A.

Is i t a s t r o n g o p i n i o n ?

(By Mr. J o n e s ) R i g h t . A s t r o n g

26
27
28

opinion.

Q.
aside?
A.

Is it s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u c o u l d s e t

29 30
31

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No, b a s e d o n w h a t you

s a i d a n d h e a r d , .I c a n ' t .

Q.

D o you f e e l l i k e t h e r e i s a - - e v e n
I

32

if we a s k e d y o u t o s e t it a s i d e , d o y o u t h i n k
327

1

it would still influence y o u ?

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) I g u e s s . I ' m sorry. I didn't hear your

Q.
answer.

A.
6

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) C o u l d y o u r e p e a t t h e

question.

7

Q.

L e t ' s say we were t o a s k y o u t o s e t

8
9

t h a t an o p i n i o n aside.

A.

( B y M r . J o n e s ) Um- hum.

10
11
12

Q.
you?

And your knowledge a s i d e , d o y o u

t h i n k i t w o u l d still n e v e r t h e l e s s i n f l u e n c e

13

A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No.
SO

14
15

Q.
A.

YOU c o u l d

p r o b a b l y do t h a t t h e n .

(By Mr. J o n e s ) No, because you a s k e d

16 17
18 19

me t o s e t i t aside.

My m i n d i s s e t f r o m what

I saw.

My o p i n i o n i s s e t in stone. Y o u r o p i n i o n i s set in s t o n e . (By M r . J o n e s ) Um- hum. T h e r e i s n o t h i n g we c o u l d t e l l y o u t o

Q.
A.

20 2 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30

Q.

c h a n g e t h a t , i s there?
A.

( B y Mr. J o n e s ) P r o b a b l y i f i t g o t

d e e p i n t o t h e t r i a l or w h a t e v e r , I d o n ' t know no knowledge. it.
I d o n ' t h a v e no k n o w l e d g e o f

F r o m what I s a w o r h e a r d o r w h a t e v e r , you

k n o w , I s e t my mind on, you k n o w , w h a t happened.

Q.

Thank you, Mr. Jones.

Is t h a t M r . H o d g e in t h e p u r p l e ?
A.

( B y Mr. Hodge) Yes. Mr. H o d g e , you m e n t i o n e d y o u h a d

3 1 32

Q.

knowledge about this case.

I

A.

( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes. From that knowledge, you have made up

Q.

y o u r mind?
A.

(By Mr. Hodge) Knowledge, I h a v e a n

o p i n i o n a b o u t it.

Q.
A.

You h a v e an o p i n i o n a b o u t t h i s c a s e ? ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes.

Q.
9
10

Is i t a s t r o n g opinion?

A.
Q.

(By Mr. Hodge) Yes.
Do you think it is s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u

11

c o u l d s e t aside? A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yeah, I t h i n k I c o u l d

12

13
14
15

be o p e n , open t o t h e c a s e .
Q.
Do y o u t h i n k t h e r e i s a n y l i k e l i h o o d

t h a t your prior knowledge would influence your

16
17

p a r t i a l i t y in the c a s e ? A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) I think i t w o u l d h a v e

18 19 20

a s l i g h t partiality.

Q.

If we were a s k y o u to t o t a l l y s e t

y o u r k n o w l e d g e aside, d o you t h i n k t h a t w h a t y o u k n o w a b o u t the c a s e w o u l d n e v e r t h e l e s s still influence you? A. open. ( B y Mr. Hodge) I t h i n k I w o u l d b e

21
22 23

24
25

Q.

Be open to listening to the evidence

26
27 28 29

a n d d i s r e g a r d i n g what you a l r e a d y k n o w ?
A.
Q.

( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes. And finally, Mr. B r o w n . ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes. You h a v e k n o w l e d g e a b o u t t h i s c a s e ? ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes. . Would that knowledge cause you to
329

A.

30
31 32

Q.
A.

Q.

66945

1

form a n o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ?
A.

2
3

(By M r .

,Brown) I t a l r e a d y h a s .

Q.

Is it a strong o p i n i o n ?

4
5
6
7

A.
Q.
A.

( B y Mr, B r o w n ) Yes.
Is it a fixed o p i n i o n ?
(By M r . I f

B r o w n ) Yes.

Q.

w e were a s k e d t o s e t i t a s i d e ,

8
9

c o u l d you?
A.

(By M r . because

B r o w n ) No.
I wear

And t h e r e a s o n
I've
) ,

10
11

you c a n ' t

it every day.
(

g o t a s e c o n d degree b u r n h e r e

Indicating

12

a n d I h a v e g o t a t h i r d degree b u r n h e r e
(

13
14
15

Indicating ) .
Four

I s p e n t six y e a r s i n t h e
i n

corps.

years

Nam,

and

I've

seen

what

napalm does t o people.

16
17
by

Q.
fire?
A.

You

are alluding t o i n j u r i e s caused

18
19

(By M r .
MR.

Brown)
GOLDEN:

Right. Thank you,
Mr.

Brown.

I

20
21
22
23 24

have no f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .
MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

Your Honor,

may

I

follow up w i t h one area.
THE COURT:

Sure.

25 26
27
28
you.
BY M R .

FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
O'CALLAGHAN: Ms.
I

Q.

Barnes,

I ' m

not

trying
I

t o p i c k on just When don't you

j u s t w a n t t o make

sure.

29

want you

t o e n d u p i n a bad s p o t .
Golden, you

30
31

were t a l k i n g t o M r .
felt

s a i d t h a t you

l i k e you

c o u l d maybe g e t y o u r children?
330

32

mother- in- law t o h e l p you w a t c h t h e

6046

1

A.

( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Maybe.

CJ

2
3
4

Q.

Do you think t h a t t h a t ' s s o m e t h i n g

s h e w o u l d b e willing t o d o f o r o n e o r t w o weeks?

5
6
7

A.
Q.

(By Ms. Barnes) She works a l s o .
And then my only o t h e r c o n c e r n was,

you h a d made the c o m m e n t t h a t y o u w e r e a n x i o u s t h a t you h a d w o u l d b e missing t h e s t a r t of your classes?

8

9

10
11
12 13

A.
Q.

(By Ms. Barnes) Right.
And that you might have trouble

paying your bills.
A.

(By Ms. Barnes) I would have trouble.

14
15
16
17 18 19

I t i s n o t m i g h t , I would.
working.

I wouldn't be

Q.
A.

Do you rent or o w n y o u r h o m e , m a ' a m ?
( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) I o w n it.

Q.

Do you think t h a t t h i s c o u l d i m p e d e

o n y o u r a b i l i t y t o make a h o u s e note?

20
21
22

A.
weeks.
Q.

(By Ms. B a r n e s ) O f c o u r s e .

It's t w o

O k a y . Is t h a t the r e s i d e n c e w h e r e you

23 24
25'
26 27.

a n d y o u r f o u r c h i l d r e n r e s i d e , ma'am?
A.

( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes.

Q.

Is t h a t anything t h a t w o u l d d i s t r a c t

you i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a juror?
A.

(By Ms. Barnes) Yes, if I can't pay

28 29 30
3 1 32

my b i l l s .

Q.

I g e t the sense t h a t y o u a r e t r y i n g

t o b e , I f e e l like you h e a r d me w h e n I s a i d t h i s is i m p o r t a n t .
A.

( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes.
331

60417

--.

.-..

Q.

S o m e people have s i t u a t i o n s w h e r e
El

they c a n and can't serve.

I'm just t r y i n g to

s e e where you are on that. O n the o n e h a n d , I
4

think y o u

are

wanting

to

overcome the

5

obstacles, but I guess what I am a s k i n g i s , d o you t h i n k you really can with the s c h o o l and the financial hardship and the c h i l d c a r e ?

6
7

8
9
10
11
12

A.
Q.

(By M s . Barnes) No.
If any o f t h o s e w e r e s o m e t h i n g y o u

couldn't address successfully, would t h a t be a distraction in serving a s a juror?

A.

(By M s . Barnes) Would you repeat

13
14
15

that.

Q.

In other words, you k n o w ,

let's say

you find c h i l d care and you - - I d o n ' t know - somebody g i v e s you money in your f a m i l y , but you s t i l l miss class, would t h a t b y i t s e l f be a pretty b i g distraction?

16 17
18 19

A.

(By Ms. B a r n e s ) , Y e s , i t would. And the same thing, I mean, i f you

20
21 22

Q.

g o t your class rescheduled and you h a d c h i l d care, but you didn't make any f i n a n c i a l arrangements, would t h a t by itself b e a b i g problem?
A.

23
24

25 26 27
28 29

(By M s . Barnes) Yes. I'm just trying to understand. I
I f e e l l i k e you

i,

Q.

appreciate that, Ms. Barnes. are d o i n g your best - A.

(By Ms. Barnes) Thank you.

30
31
32

Q.
b a d spot.
A.

- - and I d o n ' t want to put you i n a

Thank you.

.--_

MR. MR.

O'CALLAGHAN: GOLDEN:

Thank you, ma'am.

N o further questions,

Your Honor.
THE COURT:
outside for

If

you all would, return
we

a minute,

will

c a l l y o u back

shortly. (Whereupon the prospective jurors were excused from the courtroom.)

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

The State would

respectfully move to excuse M s . Barnes. I believe that based on her four children of three, five, seven and fifteen, with a

s e p a r a t i o n in h e r marriage, the fact that she
i s the sole economic provider for those
children, if she doesn't work, she doesn't get paid and that she's already signed u p for classes that would commence next week in Natchitoches, we believe that that would impair her from being able to focus on the evidence.
I think she was, you know, very

conscientious and tried to serve and give the good answers, but I d o feel that she would be too distracted and it would be unreasonable to ask her to serve.
M R . GOLDEN:

No objection, Your Honor. So ordered.

THE COURT:

Cause is

granted for M s . Barnes without objection.
M R . GOLDEN:

Your Honor, I would move

to excuse M s .

St. Pierre on the grounds that

she has knowledge, she has formed an opinion. The opinion appears to be intractable, and she made it clear that she could not b e impartial.

1
2
3
4 5

MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

The State would add

Ig

that her concerns about anxiety, while by themselves I d o n ' t think are sufficient,

combined w i t h h e r p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y
statements, the State has no objection, we would join in a challenge for cause. THE COURT: without objection.

6
7

So ordered.

Cause granted

8

9
10
11
12

(Whereupon t h e prospective juror was excused
from the venire panel.)
MR. O'CALLAGHAN:
As t o Ms. Knowles, Actually,

she indicated she has six children.

13
14
15

I b e l i e v e s h e h a s t h r e e c h i l d r e n o f h e r own
and she his the custodian or guardian of three of her grandchildren. She indicated that she

16
17

- - her husband works nights, that her
mother-in-law works nights and that she is not aware of anyone that she could arrange to watch the children at night. Based on that, I felt that she was candid in that and I would move to excuse her for cause as an undue hardship that would distract her from serving as a fair and impartial juror. MR. GOLDEN: The defense would join in

18 19 20

21
22 23 24

25

that challenge for cause. THE COURT: MR. GOLDEN:
A l l right.

26
27 28 29

So granted.

Your Honor, the defense

would move to strike juror number sixteen, Mr. Jones, on the grounds that from his answers on voir dire, h e could not b e fair and impartial. He said he has knowledge and that knowledge he has formed an opinion. That
334

30
31 32

6050

_--.

opinion i s "set in stone.'' M R . O'CALLAGHAN:

No objection by the

S t a t e , Your Honor.
THE COURT:
A l l right.
So ordered.

Cause i s granted without objection. (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused from the venire panel.)

MR. G O L D E N :

I w o u l d a l s o move t o
He

strike Mr. Brown, juror number eighteen.

has knowledge of this case, and h e has formed an opinion from that, and he's also suffered

burns which will be part of the evidence in
this case.
And he has a v e r y
strong opinion

and can't set it aside; therefore, I move to strike him for cause. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, I would

also note that he also indicated hardship issues with arranging transportation for his

w i f e who d o e s not drive herself and for whom
she

could

not

arrange

transportation,

so

the

State has no objection to the cause challenge.

THE COURT:

C a u s e is granted without

objection. (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused from the venire panel.)
MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

Your Honor, I'm One thing

slightly concerned about Mr. Hodge.

that he said - - and I apologize, I just missed it in my notes - - but he did make the statement that he might miss his rent or his house note if the lost the commission for one or two weeks. I would just like t o ask him a
335

..-

J'

f o l l o w - u p q u e s t i o n a b o u t a n d see if that h y p e r b o l a e or

-That is Mr. H o d g e ?
Yes.

THE C O U R T :
MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

MR. GOLDEN:

No o b j e c t i o n .

THE C O U R T :

Please b r i n g M r . H o d g e i n .

c13
tr3

g

(Whereupon the prospective juror was seated in

t h e courtroom. )
THE COURT:
You can sit down anywhere

i n t h e jury b o x , Mr. H o d g e . Thank y o u .

FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
BY
MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

Q.

Mr. Hodge, I'm trying to get all up I'm trying to make sure I

in your business.

understand your answers. I don't want t o put you in a situation, you know, I always feel I laid on the guilt trip at the beginning and then people feel like they have to say that, you know, they'll move mountains to serve. Y o u made the statement when I was talking t o you before that if you missed - - you said part of your job was based on commission. Do you mind if I ask, what do you d o for a living, sir?
A.

(By Mr. Hodge) Insurance debit route

agent.

Q.

" D e b i t r o u t e a g e n t . " So y o u w o u l d

work with policies in some kind of way and the more that come through that you process that you get a piece?
A.

(By Mr. Hodge) Collections. Collections, okay.
336

Q.

($052

M C"l 0

A.

( B y Mr. H o d g e ) R o u t e c o l l e c t i o n s . Route c o l l e c t i o n s . G o t you. F o r

;ie rn
E3

Q.
premiums?

A.
'

( B y Mr. Hodge) Yes.
You go and gather people's premiums.

Q.

T h e p r e m i u m s y o u g a t h e r , you g e t a p e r c e n t a g e o f that. Okay. N O W , you made t h e s t a t e m e n t , y o u k n o w , a g a i n , I ' m n o t t r y i n g to i n t r u d e too m u c h , b u t d o you rent a n a p a r t m e n t o r d o y o u rent a h o u s e or d o you o w n y o u r home? A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) M y f a m i l y o w n s t h e

I

house a n d I maintain it and pay the b i l l s . Q.
W h a t w o u l d y o u r c o n c e r n b e o r what

w o u l d y o u r l e v e l o f c o n c e r n b e if y o u h a d t o m i s s t w o w e e k s o f your i n c o m e s t r e a m b e c a u s e you w e r e s e q u e s t e r e d as a j u r o r ?
A.

( B y M r . Hodge) I t h i n k i t w o u l d b e

I

p r e t t y significant.

Q.
A. children.

Okay. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) C o n s i d e r i n g I h a v e

Q.
A.

Okay. (By M r . H o d g e ) And a l s o o t h e r t h i n g s

t h a t I h a v e t o maintain.

I

Q.

How many kids d o y o u h a v e , s i r ? ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Five a l t o g e t h e r . Are you t h e p r i m a r y c a r e g i v e r or

A.

Q.

I

f i n a n c i a l s u p p o r t e r of t h o s e c h i l d r e n ? A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes. Okay. Do they a l l l i v e w i t h y o u ? ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) No.

Q.
A.

Q.

So y o u have o b l i g a t ' i o n s t o d i s b u r s e

money t o h e l p s u p p o r t t h e c h i l d r e n a n d t o
m a i n t a i n y o u r home.
i f
Bottom

line,

Mr.

Hodge,

you a r e selected as a j u r o r ,

do you t h i n k

y o u would be t h i n k i n g a b o u t

those concerns or
the

would you b l o c k a l l t h a t a n d f o c u s on
evidence i n t h e case?
A. (By M r .

Hodge)

I would t r y

t o focus

on t h e case, b u t I ' m n o t g o i n g -- I d o n ' t
10

think

I ' m

going

t o be

in

a

financial

situation

11

t o undergo t h a t period.

12
13
1 4

Q.

Okay.

You m i g h t b e a b l e t o s e r v e o n a
a three- day case, b u t two

t w o - d a y 'case o r
w e e k s

is too m u c h ?
(By M r .

15

A.

Hodge)

Yes.

16
17

MR.

O'CALLAGHAN:

Fair'enough,

Mr.

Hodge. I don't

18
19

have any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s ,

Your Honor.
THE JUROR: (By Mr.

20 21 22
23 24 25

Hodge)

I

was j u s t
i t be

thinking,

i f

we

are sequestered,
I have

w i l l

t h i s w e e k e n d because
weekend. MR. THE MR. THE MR. THE MR. T h a t ' s
'

graduation t h i s

O'CALLAGHAN: JUROR: (By M r .

From w h e r e .
Hodge)
So w h e n
LSU- S.

26
27

O'CALLAGHAN: JUROR: (By M r .

is that?
Sunday.

Hodge)

28
29

O'CALLAGHAN: JUROR: (By M r .

You

are graduating.
Yes.

Hodge)

30
3 1

O'CALLAGHAN:

C o n g r a t u l a t i o n s .

Sunday n i g h t
THE JUROR:

o r Sunday? Hodge) A t
2:OO

32

(By M r .

p.m.

MR. O’CALLAGHAN: Mr. Hodge. questions.

Okay.

Thank you,

Mr. Golden may h a v e s o m e

MR. G O L D E N :
THE COURT: r e t u r n outside.

No q u e s t i o n s .
Thank you, sir.

You may

We w i l l c a l l y o u i n s h o r t l y .

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d from t h e courtroom.)
MR.

O’CALLAGHAN:

Your Honor, the

State would respectfully move t o excuse Mr. Hodge. He indicated that while he would

t r y , h e b e l i e v e s he w o u l d d i s t r a c t e d g i v e n h e

has child s u p p o r t obligations and h e ’ s
s u p p o r t i n g f i v e c h i l d r e n , m a i n t a i n i n g a home a n d h e d o e s h a v e h i s c o l l e g e g r a d u a t i o n on Sunday. It w o u l d c o n f l i c t w i t h e i t h e r the c o n c l u s i o n of g e n e r a l voir d i r e o r t h e commencement of this case. He also did indicate he has some slight effect from the
pretrial
p u b l i c i t y , and
I
w i l l

defer

t o

defense counsel. MR. GOLDEN: in t h a t motion. THE COURT: A l l right. Show that cause Your Honor., w e w o u l d join

is granted jointly. entire group.

That concludes that

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d f r o m the v e n i r e panel.) MR. O’CALLAGHAN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE C O U R T : ’ W e w i l l s t a r t t o m o r r o w a t
9:30

a.m. MR. THOMPSON: C o u l d we m a k e a r e c o r d
339

63055

I

1

o f the a b s e n c e s from the jury p o o l t o d a y or the p e o p l e t h a t were r e s c h e d u l e d . THE COURT:

nri
CY

73:

A l l right.

I b e l i e v e there1

@
~.,a

4

was one f r o m

the panel today who was absent.

MR. T H O M P S O N :

I show Marcus Posey, he
He had indicated

w a s from y e s t e r d a y ' s p a n e l .

a work h a r d s h i p t o t h e C o u r t t o d a y , a n d the C o u r t e x c u s e d him.

9
10
11
12

THE COURT:

Correct.
That's c o r r e c t .
Your Honor, I show

MR. MCCLATCHEY: MR. T H O M P S O N :

C h r i s t y Holmes, s h e was e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t

13
1 4 15

today.

It is m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t s h e i s an

a t t o r n e y f o r a mental h e a l t h a g e n c y , a n d s h e had work hardships and she was excused by the Court without objection from either side. THE COURT: S h e is a l s o t h e f i a n c e e ' o f

16
17

18

t h e d e f e n s e ' s employee. MR. GOLDEN: THE COURT: T h a t is c o r r e c t . S h e h a s a r e l a t i o n s h i p with

19
20 2 1 22 23 24 25

him and has had lunch with a few of the a t t o r n e y s on the d e f e n s e t e a m . o b j e c t i o n , it was granted. MR. T H O M P S O N :
So w i t h o u t

I

I believe

M s . J o a n n S t e w a r t , we m a d e o f r e c o r d e a r l i e r .
I j u s t want t o double- check.

26
27 28

THE COURT:

A l l right.

MR. T H O M P S O N :

Sophia Bennett was also

29
30 3 1 32

e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from t h e parties. The Court had indicated that she

h a d s o m e i s s u e s with u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h e E n g l i s h language. For t h a t r e a s o n , t h e C o u r t h a d
340

6056

L

I

!

--

-.-.

0
MR.

I

1
2

THOMPSON:

Your Honor,

I h a d shown

Robert Anderson as a b s e n t .
THE COURT:

3

Correct.

They are

4
5
6

attempting to c o n t a c t him.
MR. T H O M P S O N :
I

s h o w Elizabeth

Arnold.

I showed h e r e x c u s e d w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from

7
8

e i t h e r side based on a special n e e d s r e l a t i v e i n Arkansas. T h a t was c r e a t i n g a h a r d s h i p . Correct. T h e r e were

9
10

THE COURT:
multiple

i s s u e s . One i s s o m e o n e

w i t h special

11

needs.

The C o u r t

granted the hardship without

12

o b j e c t i o n by t h e S t a t e o r t h e d e f e n s e .
MR.

13

THOMPSON:

Your Honor,

that's

all

14
15

we s h o w .
THE COURT:

A n d Don V e a t c h ,

he used hi:

16
17

exemption f o r t h e age r e q u i r e m e n t .
MR.
O'CALLAGHAN:

W would a l s o n o t e e

18
19

f o r t h e r e c o r d t h a t t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t a t a l l t i m e s during the proceedings
h e was

and t h a t

20

never v i s i b l y r e s t r a i n e d i n t h e
the

21
22

presence of
THE

jury.
So n o t e d .

COURT:

W e

w i l l

resume

23

tomorrow a t 9:30

a.m.

24
25
26

( w h e r e u p o n t h e p r o c e e d i n g s were c o n c l u d e d . )
n

27
28
29

30
31 32

1

C E R T I F I C A T E _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

2

3
4

STATE O F LOUISIANA PARISH OF CADDO

5
6

I, V I C K I

D. B E G G S ,

Official Court

rl
8 9

Reporter for the First Judicial D i s t r i c t Court, in and for Caddo Parish, a t Shreveport, Louisiana:

10
11 12
13
14
1 5

DO H E R E B Y CERTIFY that the foregoing
pages, numbered one through 3 4 2 ,
is a true a n d

correct transcript of the proceedings had. DATED THIS 5th day of August, 2 0 0 9 , A.D., in the City of Shreveport, C a d d o Parish,
Louisiana.

16
17

18

19

eporter, C S R
20 21 22

23
24

25
26

27
28

29
30

31
32