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THE COURT: MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY COMMENCE WITH YOUR CROSSEXAMINATI ON. CROSSEXAMINATI ON OF MARK FUHRMAN. BY MR.

BAILEY:

Q GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. A GOOD MORNING, MR. BAILEY. Q COULD YOU TELL US WHEN IT WAS THAT YOU WERE ENLIGHTENED AS TO THE FACT THAT

THE PLASTIC YOU SAW IN MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO COMES WITH THE CAR, WHEN YOU LEARNED THAT? A YES. I BELIEVE IT WAS SATURDAY. Q SATURDAY. A YES....

Q NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE SHOVEL IN MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO, DID YOU THINK THAT A SIGNIFICANT FIND? A I DON'T THINK

"SIGNIFICANT" WAS THE WORD I WOULD USE.... Q OKAY. NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOUR COLLEAGUES, DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND

LANGE, ON THE 13TH DAY OF JUNE 1994 HAD A TOTAL OF SOME THREE HOURS IN THE COMPANY OF MR. SIMPSON, CORRECT? DID YOU LEARN THAT? A I HAD NEVER

HEARD THAT TIME, NO. Q YOU KNOW THEY TALKED THOUGH? A YES, I UNDERSTAND.... Q DO YOU KNOW IF A FORMAL STATEMENT WAS TAKEN AT SOME

POINT ON THAT DAY, JUST YES OR NO...? A I CAN ONLY SAY THAT THROUGH OTHER SOURCES, I ASSUMED AND I HEARD, BUT I HAD NEVER SEEN ANYTHING OR HEARD ANYTHING.

Q YOU NEVER TALKED TO DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND LANGE ABOUT WHAT THE SUSPECT HAD SAID DURING THREE HOURS OF CONVERSATION? A NO, I DIDN'T....

Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU EVER ASK MR. SIMPSON ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT A SHOVEL? A I NEVER ASKED -MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES HE EVER ASKED ANYTHING. THE COURT:

OVERRULED. Q BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU? A I'VE NEVER ASKED MR. SIMPSON ANY QUESTIONS.... Q OKAY. IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT THE TIME OF DEATH

CAN DEFINE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE POTENTIAL SUSPECTS IN A CASE? A I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL.

Q AND IT CAN ALSO ELIMINATE PERSONS WHO MIGHT OTHERWISE BE SUSPECTS IN THE CASE; CAN IT NOT? A I'M SURE IT COULD, YES.

Q NOW, IN THIS CASE, DO YOU REGARD THE TIME OF DEATH OF THE VICTIMS AS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR? A I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE CRIME SCENE ON THIS CASE.

Q YOU DON'T. OKAY. WHEN YOU ENCOUNTERED MR. SIMPSON AND THE WOMAN YOU NOW KNOW TO BE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IN 1985, MY

UNDERSTANDING IS THAT BECAUSE YOU PREFER BASKETBALL OVER FOOTBALL, BUT STILL LIKE FOOTBALL, YOU

KNEW WHO HE WAS AS YOU WALKED UP? A AS I GOT CLOSE, I SAW WHO HE WAS, YES. Q HAD YOU EVER SEEN HER BEFORE?

A NO. Q DID YOU EVER SEE HER AGAIN UP TO THE TIME OF HER DEATH? A NO, SIR. Q WHEN YOU WERE AT THE SCENE, DID YOU HAVE ANY POWER TO PAT

DOWN ANYBODY THERE? WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE POLICE CONDUCT? A WHICH SCENE IS THIS, SIR? Q '85, THE MERCEDES. A OH, I BELIEVE I COULD HAVE, YES.

Q WELL, MR. SIMPSON DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ON HIM OR IN HIS HANDS RESEMBLING A WEAPON, DID HE? A NO. Q NO. WHAT WOULD BE THE BASIS THAT

YOU WOULD WALK ON A PERSON'S LAND AND PAT THEM DOWN? DO YOU HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO DO THAT? A AT SOME POINT YOU DO. Q AND DID YOU

HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO ARREST HIM? A OH, NO, I DIDN'T. Q SO WHEN MISS CLARK ASKED YOU ON DIRECT EXAMINATION COULD YOU HAVE ARRESTED HIM,

YOUR ANSWER WAS WHAT? A I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID I COULD HAVE ARRESTED HIM, NO.... Q NOW, IN 1994, AT 1:05 A.M., WHILE

YOU WERE SOUND ASLEEP, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q HAD YOU SEEN MR. O.J. SIMPSON

PERSONALLY BETWEEN 1985 AND JUNE OF 1994? A NO, SIR. Q MR. PHILLIPS TOLD YOU THAT THERE WAS A DOUBLE HOMICIDE IN BRENTWOOD AND THAT ONE OF

THE VICTIMS MIGHT WELL BE THE FORMER WIFE OF MR. O.J. SIMPSON; DID HE NOT? A YES, SIR. Q DID THAT BRING TO YOUR MIND YOUR PRIOR

ASSOCIATION WITH THE SIMPSON'S IN 1985 AS AN INVESTIGATING PATROLMAN AND AS A POTENTIAL WITNESS IN 1989? DID YOU REMEMBER THOSE THINGS?

A I DON'T BELIEVE I EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT MUCH AT THE TIME. Q SO I TAKE IT THAT THE INDELIBLE PRESS THAT WAS IN YOUR

MIND IN 1989 HAD FADED TO A DEGREE? A NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. I WAS GOING TO A HOMICIDE SCENE. I WAS MOSTLY THINKING ABOUT HOW WE WERE

GOING TO HANDLE A DOUBLE HOMICIDE SCENE AND WHO WAS GETTING CALLED IN. Q HADN'T PHILLIPS EXPLAINED TO YOU THAT BASED ON

THE INFORMATION HE HAD GOTTEN, THIS WAS A SPECIAL CASE BECAUSE OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS? A NO, HE NEVER VERBALIZED THAT. Q HAD YOU LEARNED FROM

HIM DURING THAT CONVERSATION THAT THE COMMANDER WISHED TO HAVE MR. SIMPSON PERSONALLY NOTIFIED AS OPPOSED TO TELEPHONIC NOTIFICATION?

A I BELIEVE I LEARNED THAT WHEN WE WERE EN ROUTE TO THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS. Q OKAY. NOW, FOLLOWING THE RECEIPT OF THIS PHONE CALL

FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YOU AROSE, I TAKE IT SHOWERED AND CLEANED UP, ET CETERA, AND DROVE IN YOUR CAR TO THE WEST LOS ANGELES POLICE STATION, RIGHT?

A YES, SIR. Q AND HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE YOU AT THAT HOUR OF THE MORNING, ASSUME TRAFFIC IS RATHER LIGHT, TO DRIVE IN FROM REDONDO BEACH? A IT'S FAIRLY

QUICK. PROBABLY 20 TO 25 MINUTES.... Q YEAH. DID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TAKE ONE OF THE AUTOMOBILES THAT BELONGS TO THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT? A YES, SIR.... Q IT IS A VERY SHORT DISTANCE FROM THERE TO THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY; IS IT NOT? A YES, SIR.

Q AND YOU AGREE THAT YOUR ARRIVAL TIME -- I ASSUME YOU DO BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN NOTES -- WAS 2:10 A.M.? A YES, I DO. Q AND THAT YOU AND PHILLIPS ARRIVED

SIMULTANEOUSLY? A YES. Q NOW, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, YOU WERE THE FIRST DETECTIVE ON THE SCENE, YOU TWO? A YES. BOTH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND

MYSELF. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU LEARN THAT SERGEANT ROSSI HAD BEEN THERE SINCE EARLY ON, SOMETIME BEFORE YOU? A BEFORE I

ARRIVED, YES. Q AND DID YOU KNOW HIM PERSONALLY PRIOR TO THIS INCIDENT? A JUST AS MUCH AS HE WAS THE WATCH COMMANDER,

NOTHING PERSONAL. Q YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE IN PRIOR HOMICIDE CASES? A NOTHING, SIR. Q DID YOU KNOW OFFICER RISKE

PRIOR TO YOUR INTRODUCTION TO HIM IN CONNECTION WITH THIS INVESTIGATION? A ONLY AS MUCH AS KNOWING HIS NAME WAS RISKY AND WHO THAT

NAME WAS ATTACHED TO. Q BUT YOU HADN'T WORKED WITH HIM BEFORE? A NO, I HADN'T. Q OKAY. NOW, I TAKE IT THAT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE

SCENE, YOU HAD QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS AS THE INITIAL DETECTIVE TAKING OVER THE CASE? A INITIALLY, I DIDN'T SAY HARDLY ANYTHING.

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK THE LEAD TALKING TO SERGEANT ROSSI. Q OKAY. NOW, CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME IDEA OF THE BREAK-UP IN RESPONSIBILITIES

BETWEEN YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS? HAD YOU WORKED A PRIOR HOMICIDE TOGETHER? A YES. Q THERE ARE CERTAIN TASKS

THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AFTER IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU GET ON THE SCENE, CORRECT? A YES. Q DO YOU FELLOWS DIVIDE UP THESE

RESPONSIBILITIES OR DOES HE JUST TAKE CONTROL AND DIRECT YOU TO DO CERTAIN THINGS? A NO. THERE'S A WAY WE USUALLY WORK TOGETHER. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU AND

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WHEREBY YOU ALLOCATED THE WORK TO BE DONE AT THIS PARTICULAR SCENE? A NO.

Q WELL, WAS -- DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS CONTEMPLATED THAT YOU WOULD WORK SIDE BY SIDE OR THAT YOU WOULD GO OFF IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS?

A WELL, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR. SO HE WOULD NOT BE TAKING A LEAD ROLE. IT WOULD BE ONE OF THE OTHER

DETECTIVES THAT HAD BEEN CALLED IN THAT HAD NOT YET ARRIVED. Q OKAY. NOW, WHAT OTHER DETECTIVES HAD BEEN CALLED IN THAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT

WHEN YOU GOT THERE? A DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND DETECTIVE NOLAN. Q AND WHAT RANK DO THEY HOLD? A BOTH DETECTIVE 1.

Q SO THAT YOU APART FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WOULD BE THE SENIOR DETECTIVE ONSITE? A YES. Q UNTIL SOMEONE ELSE ARRIVED, CORRECT?

A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. AND YOU SAY THAT SINCE HE'S THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR, I GATHER THE THRUST OF THAT IS THAT YOU HAD TO

DO THE FOOTWORK SO TO SPEAK? A WELL, WORKING WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, HE USUALLY CONDUCTS MOST OF YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE NOTIFICATIONS.

Q RIGHT. A HE COORDINATES AND HE ALLOWS THE DETECTIVES HANDLING THE CASE TO WORK THE CASE. Q WHICH IN THIS CASE WAS YOU,

CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q YOU WERE TO DO THE DETECTING? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT DID YOU FIRST ADDRESS OF THE MANY THINGS

THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LOOKED AT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE? A I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CRIME SCENE OR -Q ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED WHENEVER A HOMICIDE OCCURS, RIGHT? A YES. Q AND YOU KNEW THIS BOTH BY

VIRTUE OF YOUR TRAINING, YOUR EXPERIENCES AS PATROLMAN AT 10 OTHER HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS, RIGHT? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. IF THE VICTIMS AREN'T QUITE

DEAD AS SOMETIMES IS THE CASE, THAT'S PRIORITY NUMBER ONE, TREATMENT AND ATTENTION OF THE VICTIMS, RIGHT? A YES, SIR.

Q YOU ELIMINATED THAT POSSIBILITY IN YOUR OWN MIND RATHER QUICKLY IN THIS CASE; DID YOU NOT? A OFFICER RISKE INFORMED US OF THE SITUATION.

Q OKAY. THE PROTECTION OF OTHERS WHO MAY BE IN DANGER BECAUSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES EVIDENT AT THE CRIME SCENE WOULD BE PROBABLY THE

NEXT CONSIDERATION; WOULD IT NOT? A YES, SIR. Q YOU KNEW THE CHILDREN HAD BEEN IN THE HOUSE AND HAD BEEN TAKEN TO THE SAFETY OF THE

POLICE STATION? A YES. Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER THEY HAD BEEN ASKED AS TO WHERE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS MIGHT BE? A I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF

ANY QUESTIONS. Q DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORT TO CONTACT THEM AND INQUIRE? A NOT AT THAT TIME. Q OKAY. PRESERVING THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE IS A

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TASK; IS IT NOT? A YES, SIR. Q YOU SAW THAT YELLOW TAPE HAD BEEN PUT UP? A YES. Q WHAT ELSE HAD BEEN DONE TO

YOUR KNOWLEDGE TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE BEFORE YOU TOOK OVER? A WHAT I SAW WAS, THE OFFICERS DID A VERY GOOD JOB

IN SEALING OFF A VERY, VERY LARGE AREA CONSIDERING THAT THEIR ONLY KNOWLEDGE WAS THAT THE CRIME SCENE INVOLVED ONE ADDRESS OR ONE RESIDENCE.

THEY SEALED OFF A VERY LARGE AREA AND HAD UNIFORMED PERSONNEL WITH THEIR VEHICLES AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS TO KEEP THAT AREA SECURE AND ANY

UNAUTHORIZED PEOPLE FROM ENTERING.... Q OKAY. NOW, HAD YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DISCUSSED AT THIS POINT THE MANNER

IN WHICH MR. SIMPSON WOULD BE NOTIFIED? A NO, I WAS NOT PRIVILEGED TO THAT. Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN DID YOU FIRST LEARN WHAT SPECIAL STEPS

WOULD BE TAKEN IN THIS CASE? A I AM SORRY? Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST LEARN THAT SPECIAL RULES HAD BEEN ISSUED BY THE BRASS IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS TO

HOW MR. SIMPSON WOULD BE NOTIFIED? A NEVER. Q YOU NEVER HEARD THAT? A NO. Q YOU'RE LEARNING TODAY THAT PHILLIPS WAS

TOLD TO TELL HIM PERSONALLY RATHER THAN OVER THE TELEPHONE? A NO. I THOUGHT YOU MEANT SPECIAL, SPECIAL WAY THAT WE WERE GOING TO NOTIFY, BEST

DESIRABLE IN ANY CASE. I ONLY LEARNED FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WHILE WE WERE IN THE VEHICLE THAT WE WERE GOING UP TO THE ROCKINGHAM

ADDRESS TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION. Q CAN YOU TELL ME WHEN THAT WAS? A WHEN WE GOT INTO THE VEHICLE TO LEAVE. Q TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM? A YES, SIR.

Q THAT WAS 5:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OR THEREAFTER? A YES, SIR. Q WHAT'S YOUR BEST ESTIMATE? A ABOUT 5:00 O'CLOCK. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, I WONDER IF

YOU COULD HELP US, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, AND JUST GIVE US YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION OF YOUR WHEREABOUTS AT VARIOUS TIMES

THAT ARE RELEVANT TO YOUR EXPERIENCES THAT MORNING, PLEASE, IN VIEW OF THE DEFENSE. YOU RECEIVED A CALL FROM PHILLIPS AT 1:05?

A YES, SIR. Q CAN YOU ESTIMATE AT WHAT POINT YOU WERE ACTUALLY ON THE ROAD AND HEADED TO THE STATION? A USUALLY TAKES ME MAYBE 15, 20

MINUTES TO GET READY. Q OKAY. SO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1:15 AND 1:25? A YES, SIR. Q AND I THINK YOU SAID AROUND 20

MINUTES TO DRIVE IN? A YES. Q AND YOU ARRIVED THERE AROUND 1:50, 1:55? A SHORTLY BEFORE 2:00, YES. Q OKAY.

AND HAVING ARRIVED AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 2:10, I WOULD ASSUME THAT YOU LEFT THE STATION ABOUT 2:05. A YES. Q OKAY. NOW, IF YOU CAN, PLEASE TRY TO

TELL US WHAT YOU WERE DOING AT 2:15, FIVE MINUTES AFTER YOU ARRIVED AT THE CRIME SCENE. A I BELIEVE I WAS LISTENING TO EITHER SERGEANT ROSSI OR OFFICER

RISKE EXPLAIN WHAT THEY HAD DISCOVERED. Q AND WHERE WERE YOU PHYSICALLY STANDING AS YOU LISTENED TO THIS INFORMATION? A INSIDE THE YELLOW TAPE

BEHIND A POLICE VEHICLE PARKED IN THE ROADWAY. Q OKAY. HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND AT THAT LOCATION GETTING THIS INFORMATION BEFORE YOU

MOVED TO SOMEWHERE ELSE? A A FEW MOMENTS. JUST LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE A FEW STATEMENTS ABOUT HOW THE BODIES WERE

DISCOVERED. Q OKAY. WELL, A MOMENT DOESN'T HAVE A VERY CONCRETE DEFINITION. CAN YOU JUST GIVE US IN MINUTES? A COUPLE OF MINUTES. Q ALL RIGHT.

SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT BY 2:15, YOU WERE LEAVING THE IMMEDIATE CRIME SCENE AND WALKING SOUTH ON DOROTHY? A I THINK THAT WOULD BE RATHER

QUICK. WE TRIED TO APPROACH TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE, BUT THEN WE TURNED AROUND AND THEN WE WENT DOWN TOWARDS DOROTHY.

Q WOULD IT BE MORE FAIR TO SAY BETWEEN 2:15 AND 2:25, YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE WHERE YOU, PHILLIPS AND RISKE HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THE BODIES AND WALKED BACK

OUT TO THE SIDEWALK AND SOUTH ON DOROTHY? A I THINK THAT'S TOO MUCH. NO. Q TOO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND YOU SAID 2:15 WOULD

BE TOO SOON. AND MY QUESTION NOW IS, WOULD IT BE BETWEEN 2:15 AND NO LATER THAN 2:25? A I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MAYBE NO

LATER THAN 20 AFTER. Q OKAY. SO BY 2:20, YOU WERE ON THE MOVE. NOW, YOU'VE DESCRIBED HOW YOU WALKED THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY I

BELIEVE YOU SAID FROM OFF THE PICTURE AS YOU WERE LOOKING AT A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SCENE AND COULD VIEW THE BODY OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, BUT DID NOT HAVE

A VERY GOOD VIEW OF THE BODY OF THE OTHER VICTIM FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT. AM I CORRECTLY SUMMARIZING WHAT HAPPENED? A YES.

Q ALL RIGHT. IN ORDER TO ATTAIN A BETTER PERSPECTIVE, YOU QUESTIONED RISKE, AS A RESULT OF WHICH YOU WALKED DOWN BUNDY TO DOROTHY AND

AROUND -- UP THE ALLEY AND INTO THE SIMPSON HOME, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q AND OUT THE FRONT DOOR WHICH YOU UNDERSTOOD WAS FOUND OPEN BY THE OFFICERS

FIRST ON THE SCENE. A YES. Q CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE LIGHTING CONDITIONS THAT EXISTED AT THE MOMENT THAT YOU

WALKED OUT THAT FRONT DOOR? A I BELIEVE THERE WAS LIGHT COMING FROM THE INSIDE OF THE RESIDENCE CASCADING DOWN ONTO THE

WALKWAY. Q CASCADING DOWN? A YES. Q IS THAT SUGGESTING THAT THE NAKED EYE COULD SEE MOST OF THE DETAIL OF THE CRIME SCENE WITHOUT THE AID

OF ARTIFICIAL ILLUMINATION BY VIRTUE OF THAT LIGHT? A NO. THERE WAS A LOT OF SHADOWING. THERE'S A LOT OF SHRUBBERY. IT WASN'T VERY GOOD

LIGHT. Q WELL, DID YOU HAVE YOUR LITTLE FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU AT THAT TIME? A YES.... Q THEN PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU WALKED

AROUND TO THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE, THE ONLY PLACE YOU HAD BEEN IS WITH THE OTHERS IN THE SHRUBBERY AT THE GATEPOST AS YOU PUT IT?

A YES, SIR. Q TRUE? A YES. Q OKAY. AT WHAT TIME WOULD YOU SAY YOU ENTERED THE RESIDENCE ASSUMING THAT YOU LEFT AT 2:20 FROM THE

IMMEDIATE CRIME SCENE? A WITHIN A MINUTE.... Q WHEN YOU ENTERED THE HOME, DID YOU GO DIRECTLY OUT THE FRONT DOOR TO VIEW THE BODIES

ONCE AGAIN OR DID YOU AT THAT TIME BEGIN TO WALK AROUND AND MAKE OBSERVATIONS? A NO. I WAS LED BY OFFICER RISKE. Q ALL RIGHT. THE PURPOSE IN

TAKING THAT ROUTE WAS TO GET BACK TO WHERE YOU HAD STARTED, BUT IN A DIFFERENT PLACE, RIGHT? A YES, SIR. Q AND TO GET

THERE WITHOUT WALKING THROUGH THE POOLING OF BLOOD THAT WAS AROUND THE AREA, THAT WAS YOUR PURPOSE, RIGHT? A YES. YES, SIR. Q HOW LONG

WOULD YOU SAY YOU SPENT AT THE CRIME SCENE FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT UP ON THE STEPS I BELIEVE YOU TOLD US ON THAT OCCASION? A ONCE OFFICER

RISKE BROUGHT US OUT INTO THE LANDING? JUST LONG ENOUGH TO POINT OUT A FEW ITEMS OF EVIDENCE, SHOW US THE FOOTPRINTS AND THEN WALK US

BACK ALONG THE RIGHT SIDE OF THOSE SHOEPRINTS. Q OKAY. WELL, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOU SPENT THERE? A COUPLE MINUTES.

Q MAYBE ONLY TWO? A TWO, THREE MINUTES. Q OKAY. AND YOU MADE THE OBSERVATIONS YOU DESCRIBED FOR US ON DIRECT EXAMINATION

ABOUT MR. GOLDMAN, THE OTHER EVIDENCE THAT WAS LYING AROUND? A OFFICER RISKE WAS POINTING THEM OUT WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT. Q OKAY.

THESE ARE THINGS HE HAD DISCOVERED AND HE WAS SHOWING THEM TO YOU. THESE WERE NOT THINGS THAT YOU WERE DISCOVERING AS A

DETECTIVE, RIGHT? A I WAS LISTENING AND HE WAS POINTING THEM OUT, YES, SIR, THAT'S CORRECT. Q BUT HE ALREADY KNEW THEY WERE THERE.

YOU FELLOWS WEREN'T MAKING A DISCOVERY AT THAT POINT, WERE YOU? A NO. WE WERE QUIET LISTENING TO HIS -- HIS LEAD. Q AND HE TOLD YOU THAT HE HAD SEEN THEM THERE

WHEN HE FIRST CAME ON THE SCENE A LITTLE AFTER MIDNIGHT? A YES. Q NOW, AFTER SPENDING TWO, THREE MINUTES THERE, WHERE DID YOU GO?

A WE WALKED DOWN ALONG THE PATHWAY THAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, LOOKED AT THE GATE. Q IS THIS WHERE YOU SAW THE

BLOODY FOOTPRINTS? A THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS WERE FROM THE LANDING WESTBOUND. Q RIGHT. NOW, YOU'VE DESCRIBED A PATH

THAT GOES DOWN SOME STEPS, LEVELS OUT AND GOES UP SOME STEPS AND OUT THE BACK GATE, CORRECT? A YES. Q DID I UNDERSTAND YOU

TO SAY THAT THE LAST BLOODY FOOTPRINT THAT YOU SAW THAT NIGHT WAS ON THE CONCRETE BEFORE YOU GO DOWN THE FIRST SET OF

STEPS? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q BY MR. BAILEY: IS THAT CORRECT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A WOULD YOU ASK THAT ONE MORE TIME? Q YEAH. HAVE IN MIND THAT STEPS GO UP, THERE'S A FLAT AREA GOING BY THE ENTRANCE TO THE HOME, STEPS GO DOWN, LEVELS

OUT AGAIN, STEPS GO UP AND THEN YOU GO OUT THE BACK GATE. HAVE THAT SCENARIO IN MIND? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT NOW? A YEAH. YES, I DO. Q OKAY. IS IT CORRECT

THAT THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS THAT YOU SAW DID NOT EXTEND BEYOND THE FIRST FLAT LEVEL? A I DON'T RECALL THEY DID, NO.... Q YOU HAVE REFERRED TO THE DEPRESSED AREA

IN THE PAST AS A TROTH OF SOME SORT; HAVE YOU NOT? A YES. Q OKAY. NOW, MY QUESTION IS, DID ANY FOOTPRINTS GO DOWN THE STEPS

OR INTO THE TROTH THAT YOU SAW THAT NIGHT? A I DIDN'T SEE ANY. Q OKAY. HAVE YOU HAD SOME TRAINING IN FOOTPRINTS? A SHOEPRINTS OR FOOTPRINTS? Q SHOEPRINTS,

FOOTPRINTS. HAVE YOU HAD SOME CLASSES, SOME ONTHEJOB TRAINING OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD EDUCATE YOU AS TO THE KINDS OF FOOTPRINTS THAT

CAN BE FOUND AT A CRIME SCENE AND HOW THEY CAN BE ISOLATED AND PRESERVED? A YES. Q YOU HAVE. A YES.... Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT A LATENT FOOTPRINT IS?

A IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT VISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE. Q OKAY. SO THAT IF THERE WERE ANY LATENT FOOTPRINTS THAT WERE ON THAT WALKWAY THAT

NIGHT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ONLY THE CRIMINALIST COULD LIKELY PICK UP, CORRECT? A YES. Q IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE HAD BEEN TWO

PEOPLE, ONE STEPPED IN BLOOD AND THE OTHER DIDN'T, THERE MIGHT BE SOME LATENT FOOTPRINTS AROUND TO BE DETECTED BY SOMEBODY PROPERLY

TRAINED; FAIR STATEMENT? A I'M NOT SURE IF IT WOULD BE A FAIR STATEMENT. Q DON'T THINK SO? A I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED AT THE QUESTION.

Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET ME SEE IF I CAN CLARIFY IT SOMEWHAT. A THANK YOU. Q IF A LATENT FOOTPRINT, SHOEPRINT IS ONE THAT CANNOT BE

SEEN WITH THE NAKED EYE BUT MUST NONETHELESS BE PROTECTED, YOU CAN ONLY PROTECT THE AREA WHERE IT MIGHT BE, CORRECT, NOT

A SPECIFIC SPOT IN THAT AREA? A I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND A CRIMINALIST MIGHT LATER COME ALONG AND

EITHER WITH ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT OR OBLIQUE LIGHT FIND SOME SHOEPRINT IN THE DUST THAT YOU HADN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE FOR LACK OF TRAINING AND

EXPERIENCE, TRUE? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND MY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE CRIME SCENE THAT YOU WERE WALKING ON AS YOU WENT BACK

UP THAT WALKWAY WITH OFFICER RISKE WAS BEING PROTECTED IN THAT FASHION. A I BELIEVE THE WHOLE SCENE WAS BEING PROTECTED,

YES. Q OKAY. BUT HOW DID YOU GET FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK? A WELL, WE HAD TO GET THERE SOME WAY. Q AND SO YOU

WALKED? A WE WALKED AT THE BEST PATH THAT WE COULD DETERMINE AT THAT TIME. Q BEING CAREFUL TO AVOID THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS AND WHAT YOU

THOUGHT MIGHT BE DROPS OF BLOOD? A YES, SIR.... Q WHAT DID YOU NEXT DO? A WALKED OUT ONTO THE DRIVEWAY. OFFICER RISKE POINTED

OUT BLOOD DROPS AND SOME CHANGE. Q YEAH. A THEN I REENTERED THE HOUSE. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, BEFORE YOU REENTERED THE

HOUSE, DID YOU OR HAD YOU BEGUN TO DEVELOP A PICTURE OF THIS CRIME SCENE AND TO HAVE SOME IDEAS AS TO WHAT MIGHT BE RELEVANT AND WHAT MIGHT NOT

IN THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION YOU WERE ABOUT TO CONDUCT? A WELL, SOMEWHAT. Q DID YOU HAVE AN OVERVIEW? A A SLIGHT

OVERVIEW. Q ALL RIGHT. RISKE HAD BEEN DOING HIS BEST PRIOR TO YOUR ARRIVAL TO DO THE THINGS HE HAD BEEN TRAINED TO DO, CORRECT? A YES.

Q AND THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT YOU WERE TRAINED TO DO WHEN YOU WERE A PATROLMAN AT HOMICIDE SCENES AS OPPOSED TO A DETECTIVE? A YES.

Q ALL RIGHT. HAD ANY CANVASSING OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TAKEN PLACE THAT YOU KNOW OF? A I BELIEVE THERE HAD BEEN, YES. Q AND AS I RECALL

FROM YOUR NOTES, YOU SAID THE RESIDENTS WOULDN'T OPEN THE DOOR. SO NOBODY LEARNED MUCH. A WELL, I THINK THAT WAS AN IMPRESSION OF

OFFICER RISKE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ACCURATE. Q BUT SOMEBODY TOLD YOU? A YES. Q DID YOU INQUIRE ABOUT WHETHER THE CRIME SCENE

HAD BEEN SEARCHED AND ITS SURROUND FOR ANY EVIDENCE OF WEAPONS, CLOTHING OR OTHER IMPLEMENTS OF CRIME? A NO.

Q RISKE DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT THE AREA HAD BEEN LOOKED AT, GARBAGE CANS, DIPSEYDUMPSTERS AND SO FORTH? A I DON'T RECALL HIM MAKING ANY

COMMENT, NO. Q DO YOU RECALL DIRECTING ANYONE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT PURPOSE? A NO. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WOULD YOU

AGREE THAT WHEN THERE IS DELAY IN A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, NUMBER ONE, THE PERPETRATORS OR PERPETRATOR, AS THE CASE MAY BE,

HAVE A CHANCE TO GET FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM THE SCENE, CORRECT? A WELL, I THINK THAT WOULD BE COMMON SENSE, YES. Q THEY HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY PERHAPS TO PLANT EVIDENCE, TO MISLEAD THE DETECTIVES AS TIME GOES BY? A I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT, SIR. Q THEY HAVE TIME -- THIS IS NO PART

OF YOUR TRAINING I TAKE IT? A PLANTING EVIDENCE? NO, IT ISN'T. Q AND THEY HAVE TIME TO STRUCTURE FALSE ALIBIS ALL DURING

THIS PERIOD THAT THEY ARE NOT BEING APPREHENDED? A I WOULD PROBABLY AGREE WITH THAT. Q AND THEY ARE FREE TO KILL AGAIN, TRUE? A IF THAT'S THE

CIRCUMSTANCE. Q WELL, IF THEY'RE NOT APPREHENDED, PRESUMABLY THEY HAVE THE SAME FREEDOM THAT PERMITTED THEM TO ACCOMPLISH

THE GRISLY SCENE THAT YOU HAD JUST VIEWED, TRUE...? A I COULDN'T SPECULATE ON A CRIMINAL'S INTENT WHETHER HE KILLED ONCE OR A HUNDRED.... Q ALL RIGHT.

WHEN DID YOU GO INTO THE HOUSE AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL TO MAKE YOUR NOTES? A RIGHT AFTER OFFICER RISKE LED US PAST THE DRIVEWAY INTO

THE ALLEYWAY. Q DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO ANY OF THE OFFICERS AT THE SCENE PRIOR TO SITTING DOWN TO MAKE THE NOTES THAT WE'VE ALL VIEWED AS TO

THINGS THEY OUGHT TO DO OR OUGHT NOT TO DO? A NO. I WAS SATISFIED WITH THE CRIME SCENE, THE SECURITY OF IT. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, AS YOU

UNDERSTOOD IT, WHEN YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED UP TO THAT POST, WHAT WERE THE RULES ENFORCED ABOUT PEOPLE GOING TO THE CRIME SCENE, THE AREA WHERE YOU

WERE STANDING? A I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THE RULES. Q WHICH PEOPLE, IF ANY, WERE ALLOWED TO GO INSIDE THE YELLOW TAPE OF THOSE WHO WERE

PRESENT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 2:10 A.M.? A I WOULD SAY AT THAT POINT, CONCERNED DETECTIVES AS FAR AS APPROACHING THE SCENE. Q JUST

DETECTIVES? A AS FAR AS APPROACHING THE SCENE? Q RIGHT. A THAT WOULD BE MY ASSUMPTION AT THAT POINT. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU ISSUE

ANY ORDERS AS TO WHO COULD AND COULD NOT CROSS THAT TAPE? A NO. Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST REALIZE DETECTIVE ROBERTS HAD ARRIVED? A WHEN HE

ENTERED THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE AND CAME INTO THE KITCHEN AREA. Q AND WHAT TIME WAS THAT? A SHORTLY BEFORE

THIS CASE WAS RELIEVED FROM OUR RESPONSIBILITY. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU HAVE MENTIONED THAT EVENT A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. CAN YOU TELL US, ACCORDING TO

YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION, WHEN IT WAS THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAID, "ROBBERYHOMICI DE IS TAKING OVER THIS CASE"?

A WITHIN A HALF HOUR OR 40 MINUTES OF OUR ARRIVAL. Q WELL, WOULD THE FIGURE 38 MINUTES AFTER YOU ARRIVED SEEM TO BE ABOUT CORRECT?

A I'VE NEVER READ THAT, BUT I AGREE WITH IT. Q OKAY. SO THAT IF YOU GOT THERE AT 2:10, THEN ABOUT 2:50 OR THEREABOUTS, YOU LEARNED

THAT THIS CASE WAS NO LONGER YOURS TO LEAD, CORRECT? A YES. Q YOU WERE IN THE PROCESS OF WRITING YOUR NOTES ABOUT 10 MINUTES OF 3:00

WHEN YOU GOT THIS INFORMATION AS I UNDERSTAND IT? A YES, SIR. Q AND DID YOU CEASE WRITING YOUR NOTES AT THAT POINT BECAUSE YOU HAD

BEEN RELIEVED OR BECAUSE YOU LEARNED YOU HAD BEEN RELIEVED? A I COMPLETED THE NOTES. WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOLD ME

THAT WE WERE RELIEVED OF THIS, I COMPLETED THE NOTES THAT I HAD STARTED. Q HOW MANY NOTES DID YOU WRITE AFTER YOU GOT THE INFORMATION?

A OH, THERE WAS ONLY TWO OR THREE POINTS THAT I WANTED TO PUT ON THE NOTES THAT WERE OF CONCERN. Q BUT YOU DID THAT SUBSEQUENT? A I BELIEVE WHEN

HE WAS STANDING RIGHT THERE. Q OKAY. NOW, ON ANOTHER SUBJECT JUST BRIEFLY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU WERE INSTRUCTED BY SOMEONE LAST

FALL TO WATCH THE LARRY KING SHOW? A NO. THAT WAS THIS YEAR.... Q ...YOU SAY YOU'RE SURE YOU NEVER MET A WOMAN NAMED KATHLEEN BELL? A YES, SIR....

Q DID YOU EVER MEET A WOMAN THAT LOOKS LIKE THE LADY ON THE LARRY KING SHOW BY SOME OTHER NAME? A NO. Q IN LOOKING AT THAT FACE -- HOW

LONG DID YOU WATCH THE SHOW THAT NIGHT? A ABOUT FIVE MINUTES. Q WAS THAT ENOUGH TO SATISFY YOU THAT YOU HAD NEVER SEEN THIS WOMAN BEFORE?

A I DID NOT RECOGNIZE HER. Q THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION. WERE YOU SATISFIED AFTER FIVE MINUTES -AND I TAKE IT YOU DISCONTINUED VIEWING THE SHOW -- THAT THE

WOMAN BEING INTERVIEWED BY LARRY KING AND IDENTIFYING HERSELF AS KATHLEEN BELL WAS SOMEONE YOU HAD NEVER MET? A THAT'S CORRECT.

Q OKAY. IS IT NOT TRUE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE RECOLLECTED SUCH A PERSON IF YOU HAD MET THEM UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES SHE DESCRIBED WITHOUT GOING

INTO WHAT THEY WERE? A YES, I WOULD. Q THAT KIND OF THING WOULD IMPRESS YOUR MEMORY THE SAME WAY THE MEETING OF O.J. SIMPSON WOULD; WOULD IT

NOT? A I DON'T THINK IN THE SAME WAY, BUT SIMILAR, YES. Q WELL, WHAT SHE WAS DISCUSSING WAS FAIRLY OUTRAGEOUS CONDUCT; IS IT NOT?

A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. AND IF YOU HAD ENGAGED IN THAT CONDUCT WITH THE WOMAN WHOSE IMAGE YOU WERE LOOKING AT, THAT'S NOT

SOMETHING YOU WOULD SOON FORGET, IS IT? A NO.... Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH OF A BLOND WOMAN AND TELL ME

WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS THE PERSON THAT WAS BEING INTERVIEWED BY LARRY KING WHEN YOU WATCHED THE SHOW AT THE REQUEST OF THE

PROSECUTION. A YES.... Q ...AND DO YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF JOE FAUS BEING IN YOUR COMPANY AND HERS IN THE RECRUITING STATION IN 1986 OR

THEREABOUTS? A I DO NOT. Q OR AT ANY TIME IN YOUR LIFE? A I DO NOT. Q ALL RIGHT. SO THAT IF HE WERE TO SAY THAT HE DID IN FACT INTRODUCE THE

TWO OF YOU, YOU SAY THAT CAN'T BE TRUE, TRUE? A IF HE SAID THAT, I DO NOT RECALL EVER MEETING THIS WOMAN IN THE RECRUITING STATION OR

ANYWHERE ELSE. Q ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'M TRYING TO GET THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A LACK OF RECOLLECTION, A FADED MEMORY AND AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT

YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS WOMAN BEFORE UNTIL YOU SAW HER ON TELEVISION. WHICH IS IT? A I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THIS WOMAN AS

ANYBODY I HAVE EVER MET. Q ALL RIGHT. YOU TESTIFIED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT NOT ONLY DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS WOMAN AND HAD NEVER MET

HER, BUT YOU HAD NEVER SAID THE THINGS THAT WERE DISPLAYED ON THE ELMO IN HER LETTER, TRUE? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND IS IT FAIR TO

SAY THERE CAN BE NO MISTAKE IN YOUR MIND ABOUT YOUR TESTIMONY IN THIS PARTICULAR? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, DO YOU KNOW A WOMAN

NAMED ANDREA TERRY? A NO, I DO NOT. Q DID YOU EVER MEET A WOMAN STANDING SIX FEET ONE INCH NAMED ANDREA TERRY IN A BAR DOWN THERE WHERE YOU LIVE?

A NO, SIR. Q IS THERE A BAR DOWN IN THAT AREA THAT YOU FREQUENT? A NO LONGER, BUT YES, THERE IS. Q BACK IN '85? A YES, SIR. Q WHAT WAS THE NAME OF IT?

A HENNESSEY'S TAVERN. Q HENNESSEY'S TAVERN. NOW, ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT ON AN OCCASION IN THE MIDDLE 80'S RELATED IN TIME

TO YOUR GOING TO THE MARINE RECRUITING STATION FOR WHATEVER PURPOSE YOU MET WITH A WOMAN NAMED ANDREA TERRY AND KATHLEEN BELL,

AN INDEPENDENT SECOND OCCASION. A NO. Q HAVE YOU BEEN SHOWN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF ANDREA TERRY BY ANYONE? A NO, I HAVE NOT. Q DID YOU SPEND A

LITTLE TIME DISCUSSING HER WITH THE PROSECUTION THIS WEEKEND? A IT WAS MENTIONED, BUT I SAID I DON'T KNOW THIS WOMAN.

Q TELL ME ABOUT THE MENTION. WHERE WERE YOU AND WHO WERE YOU TALKING WITH? A IT WAS JUST ASKED -- EXCUSE ME? ON THE -Q WHERE WERE YOU AND WHO

WERE YOU TALKING WITH WHEN THE SUBJECT CAME UP? A IN THIS BUILDING. Q TALKING TO MISS CLARK OR ONE OF HER ASSOCIATES?

A YES. Q WAS THIS BEFORE OR AFTER YOU WENT AND FOUND OUT ABOUT THE STANDARD EQUIPMENT FOR THE BRONCO? A NO. THAT WAS AT MY RESIDENCE.

Q OKAY. DID YOU DO THAT ON YOUR OWN OR DID SOMEONE ASK YOU TO DO IT? A NO. SOMEONE THAT KNEW SOMEBODY CALLED ME AND SAID THAT'S WHAT THAT BAG IS.

Q BUT A LOT OF PHONE CALLS CAME IN ABOUT THAT, DIDN'T IT? A NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. ONE. Q OH, OKAY. IN ANY EVENT, WERE YOU ASKED WHETHER OR NOT A WOMAN NAMED

ANDREA TERRY HAD EVER MET YOU IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN WITH OR WITHOUT KATHLEEN BELL? A I NEVER HEARD THE LAST NAME, BUT THE FIRST NAME I DID HEAR.

Q OKAY. DOES THE FIRST NAME MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU? A NO. Q ARE YOU AS SATISFIED THAT YOU DID NOT MEET KATHLEEN BELL

WITH ANOTHER WOMAN IN HENNESSEY'S AS YOU ARE THAT YOU DID NOT MEET KATHLEEN BELL IN THE RECRUITING STATION? A YES.

Q SO THAT IF ANDREA TERRY WERE TO TESTIFY THAT SHE WAS WITH YOU IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN IN 1986 WITH KATHLEEN BELL AND HEARD REMARKS SUCH AS THE ONE WE'VE

SEEN, YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS A FABRICATION, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE'D DO IT, BUT YES, I WOULD. Q NO QUESTION ABOUT IT? A NO QUESTION

ABOUT IT. Q HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANYTHING TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE TO HURT OR OTHERWISE OFFEND ANYONE IN THE BELL FAMILY, ASSUMING THAT

THERE IS ONE? A I HAVE NO IDEA, SIR. Q EVER HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY RELATIVE OR POSSIBLE RELATIVE OF KATHLEEN BELL IN YOUR CAPACITY

AS A POLICEMAN? A I WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT. THE NAME IS -BELL DOES NOT RING A -Q THE NAME BELL DOESN'T RING A BELL. IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE

TRYING TO SAY? A YES. YES. Q OKAY. AND WHAT DOES THE NAME TERRY RING OR ANDREA? A NOTHING. Q OKAY. SO UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES,

THE STATEMENT OF MR. FAUS THAT HE MADE ONE INTRODUCTION OF MISS TERRY, THAT SHE WAS IN A MEETING WITH THE TWO OF YOU OR AN

ENCOUNTER WOULD BOTH BE INCORRECT; IS THAT RIGHT? A WHAT WAS THE LAST OF THAT QUESTION, SIR? Q LET ME BREAK THEM UP. WE'VE ALREADY HEARD FROM YOU

THAT MR. FAUS WOULD BE SERIOUSLY IN ERROR IF HE SAID HE INTRODUCED YOU TO THE WOMAN WHOSE PICTURE IS ON THE ELMO. A YES.

Q IT NEVER HAPPENED, TRUE? A KATHLEEN BELL? NO. Q OKAY. AND YOU NEVER MET HER IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN? A NO.

Q ON ANY OCCASION OR UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES OR WITH ANY OTHER PERSON? A NO. Q AND YOU HAVE NO IMAGE IN MIND OF A TALL ATTRACTIVE

WOMAN NAMED ANDREA WITH WHOM YOU TALKED IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN IN 1986? A NONE AT ALL. Q NONE WHATSOEVER? A NO....

Q CAN YOU TELL US WHY YOU WERE AT THE RECRUITING STATION AND ON WHAT DAY? A ON WHAT DAY I CAN NOT. Q HOW MANY OCCASIONS? A TWO OR THREE.

Q AND WHAT WAS YOUR PURPOSE IN GOING THERE? A I ASKED SERGEANT FAUS IF THERE WAS ANY GOOD RESERVE UNITS THAT WERE -IF THEY HAD ANY OPENINGS.

Q AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU DO THAT? A WELL, I FOUND THAT THERE WASN'T REALLY ANY MOVEMENT IN THE RESERVE UNITS AT THAT TIME, BUT I

ENJOYED TALKING TO SERGEANT FAUS. SO I RETURNED FOR A FEW OTHER TIMES. Q DID YOU MEET ANYONE ELSE WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A A MR. RORE OR

SERGEANT RORE. Q SERGEANT RORE. RON RORE? A I BELIEVE. I DON'T REMEMBER HIS FIRST NAME. Q AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU MEET HIM? A I THINK HE WAS

THERE EVERY TIME. Q AND DID YOU TALK WITH HIM ABOUT POSSIBLY ENROLLING IN A RESERVE UNIT? A NO. I THINK HE MIGHT HAVE OVERHEARD MY PURPOSE, BUT

THAT WAS DROPPED FAIRLY QUICKLY. Q FAUS WAS THE MAIN SOURCE OF INFORMATION? A YES. Q AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU SEE SERGEANT RORE?

A A COUPLE OF TIMES. Q DID YOU SEE A MARINE WHILE YOU WERE THERE ON ANY OF THESE OCCASIONS NAMED MAX CORDOVA? A I BELIEVE I SAW A MARINE THAT I

LATER FOUND OUT WAS HIM. I DIDN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME. Q DID YOU SPEAK TO HIM AT ALL? A I REMEMBER HIM KIND OF IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE RECRUITING

OFFICE DOING -DOING SOME TASKS. Q DO YOU REMEMBER AN OCCASION WHEN HE POINTED OUT TO YOU SERGEANT RORE WHO WAS THEN COMING

ACROSS THE STREET? A I DON'T REMEMBER THAT, NO. Q HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SUCH AN EVENT? A NO.

Q HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THE COMPANY OF MAX CORDOVA? DO YOU KNOW HIS RANK BY THE WAY? A NO, I DON'T. Q OKAY. PFC, CORPORAL, SERGEANT?

A I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q WAS HE IN UNIFORM? A I BELIEVE SO, YES. Q WERE ALL OF THESE PEOPLE IN UNIFORM WHENEVER YOU SAW THEM ON THE

THREE OCCASIONS THAT YOU WENT TO THE STATION? A YES. Q AND HOW LONG WOULD YOU STAY ON THE FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD

OCCASIONS, IF YOU CAN TELL US INDIVIDUALLY? A LONG ENOUGH TO HAVE A CUP OF COFFEE. 15, 20 MINUTES. Q DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY

CONVERSATION WITH ANY OF THESE THREE MEN OUTSIDE THE STATION? A I THINK ONE TIME, JOE FAUS WANTED TO LOOK AT MY CAR, MY TRUCK, AND WE WALKED OUT --

Q OKAY. DID YOU TAKE HIM OUT TO LOOK AT IT? A I THINK I WAS LEAVING AT THAT TIME AND WE WENT OUT. Q AND DID YOU MEET ANY OTHER

PEOPLE OUT IN THE PARKING LOT THAT YOU CAN REMEMBER? A NO. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU KNOW WHEN YOU WERE THERE IN 1986

THAT KATHLEEN BELL WORKED UPSTAIRS DIRECTLY OVER THE RECRUITING STATION IN A REAL ESTATE OFFICE? A I WAS TOLD THAT A FEMALE THAT CAME IN THERE AT

ONE TIME WORKED IN THE CENTURY 21. Q UH-HUH. BUT THAT FEMALE YOU SAW -- DID YOU SEE A FEMALE? A YES, I SAW A FEMALE COME IN

THERE AT ONE TIME. Q AND THAT WAS SOMEONE OTHER THAN MISS BELL? A I DON'T KNOW. I PAID -- I DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO WHOEVER CAME

IN THERE. Q ARE YOU NOW SAYING, SIR, THAT IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN KATHLEEN BELL, THAT YOU DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HER, BUT SHE MAY HAVE WALKED THROUGH THAT

PLACE WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE? IS THAT YOUR PRESENT POSTURE? A WELL, SHE COULD HAVE. Q SHE COULD HAVE?

A SHE COULD HAVE WALKED IN. Q DESCRIBE THE WOMAN YOU DID SEE. A I COULDN'T. Q BLOND? BRUNETTE? REDHEAD? A I COULDN'T, SIR.

Q TALL? SHORT? STOUT? SLIM? A I PAID ALMOST NO ATTENTION. I SAW A FEMALE WALK IN LIKE SHE KNEW PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE AND I CONTINUED MY CONVERSATION WITH MR. FAUS.

Q WELL, WITHOUT THAT INFORMATION, HOW DID YOU KNOW IT WAS A FEMALE? A WELL, I COULD TELL IT WAS A FEMALE, SIR. BUT I DIDN'T PAY ANY -Q YOU LOOKED AT

LEAST THAT CLOSE? A WELL, I COULD TELL SHE WAS A FEMALE. Q OKAY. A EXCUSE ME? Q AND YOU COULD TELL THAT MISS BELL WAS A FEMALE, CAN'T

YOU? A YES. Q FROM SEEING HER ON LARRY KING. ARE YOU QUITE SURE THAT THEY ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME, THE FEMALE YOU SAW AND THE WOMAN

ON THE ELMO? A AM I SURE? Q YEAH. ARE YOU SURE? A I'M NOT SURE. Q YOU'RE NOT? A I JUST DO NOT KNOW MISS BELL. Q SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN MISS BELL AND YOU'RE

NOW UNABLE TO RECOLLECT THAT; IS THAT SO? A NO. I DIDN'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE FEMALE THAT CAME INTO THE RECRUITING OFFICE.... LUNCH RECESS

THE COURT: MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY CONTINUE. MR. BAILEY: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. CROSSEXAMINATI ON (RESUMED) BY MR. BAILEY: Q ...ALL RIGHT.

NOW, IF WE MAY, LET'S RETURN TO THE CRIME SCENE. YOU ARE MAKING NOTES WHEN AT AROUND 2:50 DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TELLS YOU YOU ARE OUT OF THE CASE, TRUE?

A YES. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME, BUT YES. Q HAD IT DAWNED ON YOU BY 2:50 A.M., DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT THIS WAS A CASE OF SOME MAGNITUDE, THIS HOMICIDE?

A I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY WHAT WOULD TRANSPIRE WITH THIS CASE, NO. Q I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AGAIN, HAD IT

DAWNED ON YOU THAT THIS WAS A HOMICIDE OF SOME MAGNITUDE? A ANY DOUBLE HOMICIDE, YES. Q FAR AND AWAY THE MOST IMPORTANT IN WHICH YOU HAD

EVER BEEN INVOLVED FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE NEWS MEDIA, TRUE? A I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THAT TIME. Q DID YOU HAVE SOME OTHER CASE IN YOUR MIND

THAT WAS AS IMPORTANT AS THE MURDER OF THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON THAT YOU HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN? A I DIDN'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT

THE MEDIA WOULD PLAY THAT CASE UP. Q HAVE YOU EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN A MURDER CASE THAT ATTRACTED THE NATIONAL MEDIA IN YOUR CAREER PRIOR TO

THIS ONE? A NO, NO. Q AND ARE YOU SAYING YOU GAVE THIS MATTER AND ITS DIMENSION NO THOUGHT AS YOU DROVE IN THAT MORNING? A NO. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT

HOW I WAS GOING TO APPROACH A DOUBLE HOMICIDE. Q WELL, DID YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE A QUALIFIED PERSON TO INVESTIGATE A

DOUBLE HOMICIDE OF THIS NATURE? A YES. Q YOU DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY HELP, DID YOU? A YES. Q YOU DID? A YES. Q OTHER

DETECTIVES TO ASSIST YOU WHO WERE MORE EXPERIENCED? A WELL, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE. Q DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ASSIGNED. HE IS

THE ONE THAT CALLED YOU? A WELL, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEANT. Q YOU DIDN'T ASK PHILLIPS INTO THIS CASE, DID YOU?

A NO, IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Q THAT'S RIGHT. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FROM AN ORDER FROM ON HIGH, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY CONTENT TO GO

FORWARD AND TAKE CHARGE OF THIS INVESTIGATION AS THE FIELD MAN, CORRECT? A YES. Q WITH PHILLIPS AS THE HOMICIDE SUPERVISOR AND

COORDINATOR, TRUE? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU FELT THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS UP TO THE JOB

THAT CONFRONTED YOU, TRUE? A YES. Q AND IT WAS NEVER YOUR INTENT TO ASK THE BIG BOYS FROM ROBBERY/

HOMICIDE TO COME HELP YOU, WAS IT? A AT THAT TIME, NO. Q AT ANY TIME DID YOU SUGGEST WE BETTER GET LANGE AND VANNATTER IN

HERE? A WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW LANGE AND VANNATTER. Q DID YOU EVER SUGGEST TO ANYONE WE BETTER GET SOME OF THE MORE EXPERIENCED GUYS FROM

DOWNTOWN WHO HANDLE LOTS OF HOMICIDES? A I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LATER IN THE DAY, YES. Q DID YOU EVER SUGGEST THAT TO ANYONE BEFORE YOU WERE TOLD

YOU ARE OFF THE CASE? A NO. Q DID NOT. NOW, DID YOU EXPERIENCE ANY DISAPPOINTMENT WHATSOEVER WHEN PHILLIPS TOLD YOU YOU WERE BEING

REMOVED FROM THIS MURDER CASE? A DID I SHOW ANY DISAPPOINTMENT? Q ANY DISAPPOINTMENT WHATSOEVER, DID YOU EXPERIENCE ANY? A WELL, I WAS

DISAPPOINTED WE LOST THE CASE. Q SURE. DID IT GO A LITTLE FURTHER THAN THAT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO, NOT AT ALL. Q WEREN'T YOU A LITTLE BIT ANGRY THAT YOU WERE

BEING SHOVED OUT OF A MURDER IN YOUR OWN TERRITORY? A NO, NO. Q DIDN'T BOTHER YOU A BIT? A NONE. Q WEREN'T YOU A FELLOW THAT HAD

SPENT A GOOD PART OF HIS CAREER WAITING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE, QUOTE, THE BIG ARREST? A NO.... Q OKAY. IN ANY EVENT, CAN

YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHAT YOU WERE IN FACT FEELING WHEN YOU WERE TOLD YOU WERE OUT OF THE CASE AND OTHERS WOULD TAKE OVER? A I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN

LOSING A CASE THAT LOOKED VERY INTERESTING AND VERY COMPLEX. Q OKAY. NOW, DID YOU DECIDE TO DO SOMETHING AS A RESULT OF THIS

DISPLACEMENT? A NO. Q WELL, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA WERE PROTECTED TO A DEGREE STARTING AT 2:10 BY THE EXPERTISE OF YOU AND DETECTIVE

PHILLIPS ON THE CRIME SCENE ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE THE HOMICIDE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, I TAKE IT? IS THAT SO? A I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, SIR.

Q WERE YOU ENTRUSTED WITH THE SUPERVISION, YOU AND PHILLIPS, OF THIS HOMICIDE AND ITS SOLUTION AND ITS CARE? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. AND IS IT NOT

ROUTINE THAT SOMEBODY BE IN CHARGE OF A HOMICIDE AFTER IT IS DISCOVERED? A YES. Q OKAY. THERE WAS TO ONE TO TAKE OVER THAT

RESPONSIBILITY UNTIL AFTER FOUR O'CLOCK, WAS THERE? A NO, THERE WASN'T, SIR. Q WHAT DID YOU DO BETWEEN 2:50 A.M. AND 4:05 WHEN

PHILIP VANNATTER SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE...? A WAITED FOR THEIR ARRIVAL ON THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE. Q IN OTHER

WORDS, THE WHOLE HOMICIDE SOLUTION PROCESS GROUND TO A HALT; IS THAT RIGHT? A AT THAT MOMENT WAITING FOR THEM, YES. Q IN OTHER

WORDS, YOU WERE DISABLED TO TAKE ANY STEPS WHATSOEVER THAT YOU WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE TAKEN IF YOU WERE LEFT IN CHARGE FOR THAT

HOUR AND TENMINUTE PERIOD? IS THAT THE RULE IN YOUR DEPARTMENT? A YES. I WAS RELIEVED OF THE CASE. Q OKAY. WERE YOU

PROHIBITED FROM GIVING ANY DIRECTIONS OR TAKING ANY OF THE ROUTINE STEPS A HOMICIDE DETECTIVE MIGHT TAKE? A YES. Q OKAY. AND WHO

TOLD YOU THAT? A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. Q DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. GIVE US HIS EXACT ORDER TO YOU THAT ACCOMPANIED THE

NOTICE THAT YOU WERE OUT AND WHAT WAS THE ORDER? A "ROBBERY/ HOMICIDE IS TAKING THE CASE." Q DID HE SAY, "MARK, DON'T DO ANY MORE WORK

ON THIS CASE"? A NO. I UNDERSTOOD THAT. Q WELL, YOU UNDERSTOOD IT HOW? A I HAVE BEEN ON THE DEPARTMENT LONG ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND

WHAT THAT MEANS. Q HOW MANY TIMES IN THE PAST HAD YOU BEEN PUSHED ASIDE IN FAVOR OF OTHER MORE SENIOR DETECTIVES, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A OH, THAT HAPPENS QUITE FREQUENTLY IN THE CITY. Q OF THE TEN PRIOR HOMICIDES IN WHICH YOU PARTICIPATED AS A DETECTIVE, IN HOW MANY OF THOSE DID YOU

GET PUSHED OUT SO OTHERS COULD TAKE OVER? DO YOU REMEMBER? A YES. Q HOW MANY? A PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND

WHO TOOK OVER IN THOSE CASES? A ROBBERY/ HOMICIDE. Q FROM DOWNTOWN? A YES. Q AND UNDER SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES,

BIG CASE, THAT SORT OF THING? A OUT OF SCOPE OF OUR ABILITIES OR LOGISTICS, YES. Q OKAY. NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS IN YOUR VIEW THIS CASE WAS

NOT BEYOND THE SCOPE OF YOUR ABILITIES AND YOU WERE WILLING TO CONTINUE? A SIR, AT WHAT TIME ARE YOU ASKING ME TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?

Q PRIOR TO 2:50 WHEN YOU GOT THE NOTICE. A AT THAT TIME I FELT WE COULD PROBABLY HANDLE IT, YES. Q WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL OR

BIZARRE ABOUT THESE MURDERS, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS FORMERLY MARRIED TO A WELL-KNOWN AMERICAN ICON? A I DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE

SCENE AT THAT POINT, SO THAT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY. Q OKAY. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OBSERVATIONS YOU HAD MADE. WERE YOU SOMEWHERE

TRAINED IN ANY OF THE COURSES YOU TOOK, OR ANY OF THE ON-THE-JOB TRAINING, TO RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WOUND OF INCISION AND A

GUNSHOT WOUND? A WELL, THEY WILL LOOK SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT. Q ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU TAUGHT ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOW KNIFINGS ARE

ACCOMPLISHED OR WHAT THEY DO TO THE BODY, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY ARE ACCOMPLISHED? A I DON'T SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER THAT, NO....

Q OKAY. DID YOU CONCERN YOURSELF, BEFORE YOU WERE OFF THE CASE, AS TO FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU COULD SEE, WHICH VICTIM

DIED FIRST? A I COULDN'T TELL ANY OF THAT FROM THE SCENE. Q DID YOU MAKE ANY OBSERVATIONS? A I MADE NO DETAILED OBSERVATIONS

THAT WOULD GIVE THAT INFORMATION. Q DID YOU DEDUCE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, FROM THE QUANTITY OF THE BLOOD SURROUNDING THE

BODY OF THE FEMALE VICTIM, THAT SHE HAD BLED VERY PROFUSELY? A YES. I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT. Q AND COULD WELL HAVE SUFFERED A

MASSIVE INJURY TO THE CAROTID ARTERIES IN THE NECK? A I COULDN'T ASSUME THAT. Q YOU COULDN'T? A NO. Q DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE

ALL THAT BLOOD CAME FROM? A SOMEWHERE IN THE HEAD AREA, BUT I COULDN'T SEE HER FACE. Q BUT A MASSIVE INJURY OF SOME SORT? A YES, SIR. Q ONE THAT

PROBABLY PRODUCED DEATH VERY QUICKLY, CORRECT? A YES. Q AND PROBABLY SHE HAD NEVER MOVED FROM THE POINT AT WHICH SHE FELL, FROM THE EVIDENCE

THAT YOU SAW? A FAIR DEDUCTION? A YES. Q OKAY. NOW, DID YOU NOTICE THE BLOOD ON HER BACK IN DROPLETS? A NO, I DIDN'T. Q YOU NEVER SAW

THAT? A NO. Q EITHER WHEN YOU WALKED UP TO THE GATEPOST WITH PHILLIPS OR WHEN YOU CAME BACK AROUND THE

WALKWAY AND OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND LOOKED DOWN FROM THE STEPS? YOU NEVER NOTICED THE BLOOD SPECKS ON THE BACK OF THE FEMALE VICTIM? A NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.

Q HAVE YOU TO THIS DAY SEEN THEM IN ANY OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS YOU REVIEWED, INCLUDING THE ONES WE LOOKED AT IN COURT? A NO. Q WELL, IS IT PART

OF YOUR TRAINING THAT YOU OBSERVE DETAILS OF THAT SORT WHEN YOU GO TO A HOMICIDE SCENE? A YES. Q AND YOU MADE NO SUCH

OBSERVATION? A NOT ON THE FIRST WALK THROUGH, NO. Q AS YOU SIT THERE TODAY, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OR NONEXISTENCE OF

BLOOD DROPS ON THE BACK OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON? A I HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN ANY PHOTOS OF THOSE BLOOD DROPS. Q CAN YOU SAY WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVER

EXISTED, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE? A TO MY KNOWLEDGE I CANNOT. Q OKAY. AND YOU WERE AT ONE TIME THE LEAD FIELD DETECTIVE ON THE

SCENE, IS THAT WHAT WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND? A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. AND YOU HAD TWO OPPORTUNITIES TO VIEW THAT BODY

CLOSE UP WITH THE BACK POINTED UP TOWARD THE SKY, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q AND YOU DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THE BACK WAS CLEAN OR HAD SOME

SUBSTANCE ON IT? A YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BLOOD DROPS? Q ANY SUBSTANCE? I DIDN'T ASK THAT, SIR. A BLOOD DROPS? NO, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING.

Q DID YOU SEE ANY SPECKS ON HER? A I DID NOT TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE BACK, NO. Q ON EITHER OCCASION, THE VIEW FROM ABOVE OR THE VIEW

OBLIQUELY? A NO.... Q NO. ALL YOU HAD DONE WAS TO OBSERVE THINGS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DISCOVERED BY OTHERS AND WERE

POINTED OUT TO YOU, CORRECT? A EXCUSE ME. I WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT THAT. Q OKAY. A I SAW A PARTIAL FINGERPRINT ON THE BACK GATE AND I SAW TWO ADDITIONAL

BLOOD DROPS ON THE GATE. Q OKAY. SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU SAW PRESUMABLY FOR THE FIRST TIME AMONG YOURSELF AND YOUR COLLEAGUES?

A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND YOU MADE DUE NOTE OF THOSE, DID YOU NOT? A YES, I DID.... Q HAD YOU NOTICED A TELEPHONE IN THE KITCHEN?

A YES. Q WERE YOU INTERESTED IN WHO IT WAS WHO HAD LAST SPOKEN WITH THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE VICTIM WHO LIVED ON THE PREMISES?

A AT THAT EARLY IN THE INVESTIGATION IT HADN'T OCCURRED TO ME, NO. Q IT HADN'T OCCURRED TO YOU TO TRY TO GET IN

TOUCH WITH WHOEVER WHO HAD LAST TALKED TO HER BEFORE HER DEATH? A NO. Q YOU KNEW OF COURSE THAT IF YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT, THAT

WOULD ESTABLISH THE LAST MOMENT AT WHICH SHE WAS ALIVE, TRUE, OR COULD ESTABLISH? A I THINK THAT WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY.

Q WELL, IF SOMEBODY WAS TALKING TO HER ON THE PHONE, THAT WOULD LEAD TO A FAIR INFERENCE THAT SHE WAS A LIVING PERSON, WOULDN'T IT?

A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q WOULDN'T IT? A IF I COULD IDENTIFY HER VOICE ON THE PHONE. Q JUST ASSUME THAT SOMEBODY WHO KNEW HER WAS TALKING TO

HER ON THE PHONE, LIKE HER MOTHER, FOR INSTANCE, AT 9:44 P.M. IF YOU COULD HAVE LEARNED THAT, OFFICER FUHRMAN, THAT WOULD

HELPED YOU IN SO FAR AS TIME OF DEATH; WOULD IT NOT? A YES, SIR. Q BETWEEN 9:44 AND WHEN THE BODIES WERE DISCOVERED AT MIDNIGHT, TRUE? A YES.

Q OKAY. NOW, DID YOU THINK TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND PUNCH THE REDIAL BUTTON? A I WOULDN'T HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE, SIR.

Q DID YOU THINK TO DO THAT? A NO, I DIDN'T. Q WAS THERE ANY RULE OF YOUR DEPARTMENT THAT SAYS YOU COULDN'T DO THAT TO FIND OUT WHO

SHE HAD LAST DIALED? A WELL, I WOULDN'T HAVE WANTED TO PICK UP THE PHONE BEFORE IT HAD BEEN PRINTED. Q WELL, WEREN'T YOU AWARE THAT RISKE HAD

ALREADY BEEN USING IT TO CALL THE STATION? A NO, SIR. Q HE DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT? A NO. Q OKAY. AND YOU HAD NO INTEREST IN THE

FACT THAT A SPEED DIAL MECHANISM MIGHT HAVE DIRECTLY CALLED THE PARENTS OF THE TWO CHILDREN OR THE FATHER OF THE TWO CHILDREN WHO HAD BEEN

TAKEN AWAY? A AT THAT TIME, NO. Q DID NOT? OKAY. WERE YOU ENGAGED TO ANY DEGREE IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO MIGHT HAVE

COMMITTED THESE HOMICIDES? A NO, SIR. Q WELL, WERE YOU TRAINED TO LOOK INITIALLY, WHEN A HOMICIDE OCCURS, STATISTICALLY

WHO MIGHT THE PERPETRATORS LIKELY BE? A I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q RELATIVES, FRIENDS, PEOPLE CLOSE IN, AS OPPOSED TO TOTAL STRANGERS? ISN'T

THAT AN AREA WHERE YOU ALWAYS LOOK, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE A RESIDENT, NO, THAT IS ALSO ONE

OF THE VICTIMS. Q DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON LIVED IN THAT HOME? A I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AT THAT POINT. Q YOU KNEW IT

WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AT 1:05 A.M. WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOLD YOU THAT, DIDN'T YOU? A NO, I DIDN'T. Q DID HE TELL YOU THIS IS NICOLE

BROWN SIMPSON, A VICTIM? A NO. HE SAID IT MIGHT BE. WE BELIEVE IT IS. Q DID YOU EVER TESTIFY ON A PRIOR OCCASION THAT HE

TOLD YOU IT WAS, WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION? A COULD HAVE BEEN. Q YOU MIGHT HAVE TESTIFIED TO THAT AND IF YOU DID, YOU NOW SAY

THAT WAS WRONG? A NO. I'M SAYING THAT NOBODY KNEW IT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON. THEY ASSUMED IT WAS. Q WAS THERE EVER A POINT, PRIOR TO

YOUR BEING RELIEVED, WHEN YOU TOOK IT TO BE THE FACT THAT THIS WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, THE VICTIM WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE UPON WHOSE PREMISES

THE BODIES WERE FOUND? A I PERSONALLY COULD NOT CONCLUDE THAT, NO. Q DID NOT CONCLUDE? YOU STILL THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A PASSERBY?

A NO. WE DID NOT KNOW THE WHEREABOUTS OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND NOBODY HAD VERIFIED THAT. Q DID YOU KNOW WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE? A NICOLE BROWN

SIMPSON. Q DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE WITH NO MOTHER WHEN THE POLICE GOT THERE? A YES, SIR.

Q THAT DIDN'T LEAD YOU TO THE CONCLUSION THAT NICOLE WAS OUT ON THE WALKWAY? A I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE CHILDREN WERE

ASKED. Q DID YOU HAVE ANY INTEREST AT ALL IN THE IDENTITY OF THE MALE VICTIM? A YES, SIR. Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT TRYING TO LEARN THAT IDENTITY?

A I COULD DO NOTHING. Q YOU COULD DO NOTHING. NOW, ARE YOU TALKING BEFORE 2:50 WHEN YOU HAD BEEN ON THE JOB FOR FORTY MINUTES OR AFTER?

A EITHER. Q EITHER. WHY COULD YOU DO NOTHING PRIOR TO THE TIME YOU WERE RELIEVED? A PRIOR TO I COULDN'T APPROACH THE BODY AND LOOK

FOR IDENTIFICATION, AND AFTERWARDS IT WAS NO LONGER MY CASE. Q ALL RIGHT. YOU COULDN'T APPROACH THE BODIES? YOU MEAN

YOU COULDN'T DISTURB THEM TO GO FOR A WALLET? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q ALL RIGHT. COULD YOU HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO VIEW THE

BODIES AND SEE IF ANYONE RECOGNIZED THE VICTIM? A IF WE HAD A POLAROID. Q NO. COULD YOU HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO COME AND LOOK? A I WOULD NOT

HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO ENTER A CRIME SCENE. Q YOU WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT? A NO, SIR. Q COULD YOU HAVE CHECKED CARS IN THE

NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE OFF CHANCE THAT THIS MALE VICTIM HAD DRIVEN TO THE SCENE, AS OPPOSED TO WALKING? A HAD I KEPT THE CASE I'M SURE

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE. Q BUT AS OF 2:50 YOU HADN'T DONE THAT EITHER? A NO, SIR. Q FROM 2:50 TO 4:05, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY,

YOU WENT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND STOOD THERE? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q FOR 65, 75 MINUTES YOU STOOD AT THE INTERSECTION

WAITING FOR YOUR REPLACEMENT? IS THAT RIGHT? A YES, SIR. Q AND WHAT DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DO DURING THAT 75MINUTE PERIOD? A STAND THERE

AND WAIT WITH ME. Q THE TWO OF YOU FOR 75 MINUTES STOOD STOCK STILL OR DID YOU WANDER AROUND A BIT? A OH, WE COULD HAVE WANDERED A

LITTLE BIT ON THE STREET, BUT PREDOMINANTLY STAYED IN THAT GENERAL AREA. Q DID YOU GO BACK TO THE CRIME SCENE? A NO. Q DID YOU DO ANY

MORE OBSERVATIONS? A AT ONE TIME I DID MAKE AN OBSERVATION FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE. Q OH. I DON'T RECALL YOU

MENTIONING THAT IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION. DID YOU? A I BELIEVE I DID, YES, SIR. Q YOU DID? A YES. Q WELL, TELL US ABOUT IT. WHAT

DID YOU DO FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE? A LIEUTENANT SPANGLER HAD WALKED TO THE NORTH RESIDENCE OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND LOOKED BETWEEN THE -- THE IRON

FENCE THAT WAS ABOUT THREE OR FOUR FEET FROM THE FEET OR BUTTOCKS AREA OF THE MALE VICTIM, AND HE NOTICED A PORTION OF BARE SKIN AND HE SAID, "YOU CAN SEE

SOME TYPE OF A WOUND THERE" AND HE DIRECTED ME TO GO OVER THERE AND I DID, AND I LOOKED AT IT, AND IT APPEARED TO BE A LACERATION OF SOME SORT. Q WHERE?

A I BELIEVE IT WAS ON HIS SIDE OR HIS BACK. Q UH-HUH. AND WHERE WERE YOU STANDING WHEN YOU OBSERVED THAT? A THERE IS A WALKWAY THAT

GOES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE WHITE WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT SEPARATES THOSE TWO RESIDENCES BETWEEN 875 AND THE ONE TO THE NORTH. Q WHOSE

PROPERTY WERE YOU STANDING ON, AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT, WHEN YOU MADE THE OBSERVATION WITH LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? A I DON'T KNOW. Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS

WHEN YOU MADE THAT OBSERVATION? A PROBABLY SOMEWHERE RIGHT AFTER 3:00, 3:30. Q LONG AFTER YOU WERE OFF THE CASE THEN?

A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. WELL THEN DID YOU NOT SPEND THE ENTIRE TIME DOWN AT THE INTERSECTION WAITING FOR MESSERS. VANNATTER AND LANGE?

A EXCEPT FOR THAT, NO. Q ALL RIGHT. TELL ME HOW IT OCCURRED THAT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER TOOK YOU UP THERE AS A DETECTIVE NO LONGER ON THE

CASE TO MAKE THIS OBSERVATION? DID HE COME TO YOU AT THE INTERSECTION? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID HE SAY? A WELL, HE JUST

WENT UP TO VIEW THE SCENE FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE, SO HE DIDN'T DISTURB IT. Q HOW LONG HAD HE BEEN THERE, IF YOU KNOW? A I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q YOU DIDN'T SEE

HIM ARRIVE? A I DON'T KNOW WHEN HE ARRIVED, NO. Q DID HE ARRIVE AFTER YOU OR BEFORE YOU? A AFTER. Q OKAY. BUT AS TO THE TIME, YOU

DON'T KNOW? A I DO NOT. Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO HE SAID SOMETHING TO YOU ABOUT A WOUND. DID HE INVITE YOU OR DIRECT YOU? HE WAS YOUR BOSS,

WASN'T HE? A HE DIRECTED ME. HE SAID THAT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF A WOUND ON THE MALE VICTIM THAT IS VISIBLE. Q OKAY. SO YOU WALKED BACK UP

BUNDY WHERE THE BLOODY PAW PRINTS WERE? A NO. Q WHERE DID YOU WALK? A I JUST WALKED UP THE STREET AND

THEN ENTERED THE NORTH RESIDENCE. Q YOU STAYED OFF THE SIDEWALK? A YES, SIR. Q WALKED UP THE STREET? A YES. Q AND WALKED

AROUND WHAT WE CALL THE FENCE AGAINST WHICH THE MALE VICTIM'S BODY WAS KIND OF CRUMBLED? A YES, SIR. Q OKAY.

AND HOW FAR INTO THE PROPERTY DID YOU GO? HOW MANY RUNGS OF THE FENCE WOULD YOU ESTIMATE, VERTICAL WISE? A WHERE THE

MALE VICTIM WAS. Q OKAY. CAN YOU PLACE YOURSELF WITH RESPECT TO THE FENCE? A DIRECTLY TO THE NORTH OF THE FENCE WHERE THE VICTIM WAS.

Q ALL RIGHT. HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND THERE? A FIVE SECONDS. Q HOW LONG WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER THERE, IF HE WAS? A HE WASN'T, BUT WHEN HE WALKED OVER THERE I

THINK HE WAS JUST THERE FOR A FEW MOMENTS. Q WHEN YOU WALKED UP THE STREET, WAS HE WALKING BESIDE YOU? A I DON'T RECALL IF HE DID OR HE

DIDN'T. Q DID HE COME WITH YOU TO THE LOCATION TO WHOSE VIEW HE HAD COMMENDED YOU? A I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO. Q ALL RIGHT. YOU

BELIEVE YOU WERE ALONE AT THAT POINT? A YES. Q YOU WALKED. DID YOU HAVE YOUR LITTLE FLASHLIGHT? A YES. Q DID YOU USE IT?

A YES. Q WERE THERE ANY OTHER LIGHTS BEING SHOWN ON THE AREA AT THAT TIME? A NO. Q WAS ANYBODY ELSE ON THE CRIME

SCENE NEAR THE BODY INSIDE THE FENCE? A NO. Q WAS ANYBODY NEXT TO THE FENCE ON EITHER SIDE? A NO. Q WAS ANYBODY ACCOMPANYING

YOU IN ANY WAY? A NO. Q FOR THAT VISIT? A NO, SIR. Q AND HOW CLOSE TO YOU WAS THE NEAREST DETECTIVE OR OFFICER, AS YOU REMEMBER? A ON THE STREET.

Q ON THE STREET? A YES. Q SO THAT WOULD BE, WHAT, TWENTY FEET AT LEAST? A PROBABLY LONGER THAN THAT. Q MORE THAN THAT?

A YES. Q YES. AND YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE THERE FOR ABOUT FIVE SECONDS? A JUST LONG ENOUGH TO LOOK AT THE WOUND. Q OKAY. AND THEN WHERE DID YOU

GO? A I JUST WENT BACK TO THE STREET. Q AND? A I MADE A COMMENT TO LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, "IT LOOKS LIKE A LACERATION."

Q OKAY. IS THAT ALL THAT YOU SAID? A THAT IS ALL THAT I SAID. Q DID YOU SAY ANYTHING ELSE? A NO, SIR. Q DID YOU THEN GO BACK TO THE INTERSECTION?

A YES. Q YOU HAD BEEN GONE FROM THE INTERSECTION LESS THAN WHAT, THREE OR FOUR MINUTES? A I DON'T EVEN

THINK THAT LONG, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU STAY THERE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS UNTIL DETECTIVE VANNATTER ARRIVED AT

ABOUT 4:05? A YES. Q DID YOU TALK TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ABOUT THE CASE? A I DON'T RECALL TALKING ABOUT THE CASE, NO.

Q DID YOU TALK TO HIM ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU FELLAS WERE NO LONGER ON THE CASE? A NO. Q DID YOU TALK AT ALL OR DID YOU

JUST STAND THERE FOR AN HOUR? A WELL, I TALKED, BUT I DON'T RECALL TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE. Q IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT ABSOLUTELY NO DETECTING WENT ON FROM 2:50

UNTIL 4:05, EXCEPT FOR YOUR LITTLE VISIT TO THE FENCE? A I WOULD SAY THAT IS ACCURATE. Q NOW, DID YOU TELL PHILLIPS

THAT THIS LOOKED LIKE A KNIFE WOUND, THIS WOUND OR A SHARP INSTRUMENT? A I THINK THE TERM I USED WAS A LACERATION....

Q NOW, IS THAT THE SUM TOTAL OF THE OBSERVATIONS YOU MADE ON THAT LITTLE EXCURSION? YOU SAW A KNIFE WOUND AND THAT

IS IT? A YES, SIR. Q NOTHING ELSE? A I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO. Q HOW ABOUT A COUPLE OF GLOVES, DETECTIVE? A EXCUSE ME? Q DID YOU SEE A

COUPLE OF GLOVES UP THERE? A NO. I SAW ONE GLOVE. Q YOU DIDN'T MENTION THAT A MINUTE AGO WHEN I ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD SEEN

ANYTHING ELSE? YOU NOW SAY YOU SAW ONE GLOVE? A WELL, I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE ONE GLOVE AND THE HAT. Q YOU HADN'T TALKED ABOUT

THIS EXCURSION BEFORE, I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT I ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYTHING OTHER THAN A LACERATION AND YOU SAID NO. DO YOU WANT TO CORRECT THAT? MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. AT WHAT TIME? MR. BAILEY: THE ONLY VISIT HE MADE TO THE FENCE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. Q DID YOU MAKE MORE THAN ONE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A MORE THAN ONE WHAT? Q TO THAT VANTAGE POINT TO VIEW GOLDMAN'S BODY. DID YOU MAKE MORE THAN THE ONE THAT YOU MADE AT THE

BEHEST OF DETECTIVE SPANGLER? A NO. Q THAT IS THE SOLE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAD TO OBSERVE FROM THAT POINT ON THE NORTH

PROPERTY, TRUE? A YES, SIR. Q I ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE LACERATION. I BELIEVE YOU SAID NO, DID YOU? A I THOUGHT YOU WERE SPEAKING

ABOUT THE BODY. Q YOU DID? A YES. Q YOU THOUGHT MY QUESTION RESTRICTED YOU FROM MENTIONING ANYTHING NOT CONNECTED WITH

THE VICTIM'S BODY; IS THAT RIGHT? A WELL, I HAD ALREADY TESTIFIED TO THE OTHER EVIDENCE I OBSERVED AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING

ABOUT NEW ITEMS THAT I HAD SEEN.... Q BUT YOU ARE SATISFIED THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT OF YOUR DIRECT TESTIMONY THERE IS MENTION OF THIS VIEW, THE

LACERATION AND THE GLOVE AND THE FENCE ON THE NORTH PROPERTY? ARE YOU SATISFIED OF THAT? A WELL, I'M NOT

SURE IF I TESTIFIED TO THAT OR NOT. I THINK WE WERE WORKING UP TO THAT. WE MIGHT HAVE. I MIGHT BE INCORRECT. Q WE WORKED UP TO IT?

A IN OTHER WORDS, WE WERE CHRONOLOGICAL L Y GOING THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE. Q WELL, LOOK, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. THERE

IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT TESTIMONY, ISN'T THERE, THE TESTIMONY ABOUT THE VIEW THROUGH THE FENCE? A NO, THERE ISN'T. Q THERE IS A

PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION, ISN'T THERE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO. Q WHEN DISCUSSING THIS EVENT IN THE

PRELIMINARY HEARING AND TALKING ABOUT THE GLOVE, YOUR TONGUE SLIPPED AND YOU SAID "THEM," DIDN'T YOU? A YES. Q AND YOU HAVE

EXAMINED THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT, HAVEN'T YOU? A YES. Q AND YOU KNOW IT HAS BEEN PLAYED ON VIDEO TO THE JURY? THE WORD "THEM" IS CLEAR?

A YES. Q THAT IS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE? A NO. Q IT WAS NOT? OKAY. NOW, WHEN DETECTIVE VANNATTER CAME, YOU ARE OFF THE

CASE? A YES. Q WHAT DID YOU DO? A I WAITED FOR DIRECTION FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. Q YOU DON'T SPEAK TO VANNATTER, ONLY

THROUGH PHILLIPS? A WELL, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IS MY BOSS. Q I UNDERSTAND THAT.... WAS THERE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT YOU

FELLAS, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN, SHOULD DO? A YES. Q OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU DIRECTED TO DO?

A OH, AT THAT TIME FROM DETECTIVE VANNATTER? Q YES. A I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WE WERE DIRECTED TO DO. Q WHAT DID YOU IN

FACT DO? A AT SOME POINT WE LED DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE TO THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE. Q YOU SAY AT SOME POINT. CAN YOU

HELP US A LITTLE BETTER THAN THAT? WE ARE TALKING 4:05 NOW WHEN DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED? A YES, SIR. Q VANNATTER, I'M SORRY. A DO YOU WANT A TIME, WHAT TIME

WE DID THAT? Q CAN YOU TELL US HOW LONG YOU STAYED AT BUNDY WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER BEFORE YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM? A DETECTIVE

VANNATTER GOT THERE, AS YOU SAID, AT 4:05, DETECTIVE LANGE, 4:25, AND AT FIVE O'CLOCK WE LEFT FOR ROCKINGHAM. Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN

YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM, HOW WERE YOU PAIRED? A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I WERE IN A VEHICLE; HE WAS DRIVING. LANGE AND VANNATTER WERE IN THEIR

VEHICLE. Q DO YOU KNOW A PHOTOGRAPHER NAMED ROKAHR? A YES, SIR. Q DID YOU SEE HIM ARRIVE ON THE SCENE AT 3:25 THAT DAY?

A YES. I RECALL HE WAS THERE FAIRLY EARLY. Q WERE YOU -- DID YOU OBSERVE HIM TAKING ANY PHOTOGRAPHS? A YES. I THINK HE WAS TAKING

PHOTOGRAPHS OF SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS. Q OKAY. DID YOU GIVE HIM ANY DIRECTION WITH RESPECT TO PHOTOGRAPHS THAT NEEDED TO BE TAKEN? A NO, I DIDN'T.

Q DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH HIM AT ALL? A NO, I DON'T BELIEVE I DID. Q WHEN YOU LEFT FOR ROCKINGHAM DID HE GO WITH YOU? A NO.

Q HE DID NOT? A NO. Q WAS THERE ANYONE WITH YOU, OTHER THAN THE FOUR DETECTIVES, INITIALLY? A NO. Q DID OTHERS

COME AFTER YOU ARRIVED AND BEFORE YOU ENTERED THE PROPERTY? A I BELIEVE THERE WAS A UNIFORMED VEHICLE, POLICE VEHICLE, THAT ARRIVED JUST AS WE HAD ALREADY

MADE ENTRY, AND THEY STAYED AT THE FRONT GATE.... Q DID ANYONE PEER THROUGH THE GATE TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYBODY INSIDE ON THE PREMISES,

IF YOU CAN RECALL, ANY OF THE FOUR OF YOU? A YOU CAN JUST SEE RIGHT THROUGH THE GATE. YOU DIDN'T NEED TO PEER. Q DID ANYBODY GO UP AND TAKE A

LOOK, IF YOU KNOW? A WE WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE GATE. Q ALL OF YOU? A YES. Q YOU HAD A FAIRLY SWEEPING VIEW OF THE

INTERIOR OF THE WALLS? A YOU MEAN OF THE DRIVEWAY, SIR, LOOKING SOUTH. Q WERE YOU WEARING A SIDEARM THAT NIGHT? A YES.

Q DID YOU WITHDRAW IT AT ANY TIME? A NO. Q DURING THE ENTIRE NIGHT? A I COULD HAVE ON THE PATHWAY, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY

RECOLLECTION IF I DID OR I DIDN'T. Q WELL, YOU HAVE NEVER, NEVER MENTIONED DRAWING YOUR SIDEARM UP TO THIS POINT IN PRIOR TESTIMONY, HAVE YOU?

A NO. Q DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION NOW, AS YOU SIT THERE, THAT YOU DREW A SIDEARM? A I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I DID OR I HAD MY HAND

ON IT, BUT NO, I CAN'T. Q YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A MEMORY ABOUT THAT, TRUE? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q OKAY. DID ANYBODY

DIRECT YOU TO GO DOWN AND LOOK AT THE BRONCO? A NO. Q THAT WAS SOMETHING YOU DECIDED TO DO ON YOUR OWN? A YES, SIR.

Q AND THAT IS A CAR THAT YOU HAD SEEN AS YOU DROVE BY IT APPROACHING ROCKINGHAM TRAVELING NORTH COMING UP FROM SUNSET?

A YES. Q HAD YOU ANY REASON, AS YOU PASSED BY IT, TO ASSOCIATE IT WITH MR. SIMPSON? A NO. Q JUST BASED ON LOOKING AT IT? A NO.

Q HAD YOU NOTICED THAT THERE WERE VEHICLES PARKED INSIDE THE SURROUNDS, THAT IS, INSIDE THE FENCE ENCLOSURE? A YES, I NOTICED VEHICLES INSIDE.

Q HAD YOU BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM IN THE LIGHT THAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME? A I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE LARGE LUXURY VEHICLE WAS, BUT I COULD

TELL BY THE LINES OF THE ONE VEHICLE IT WAS A SAAB. Q OKAY. AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THE LARGE VEHICLE LOOKED FOREIGN MADE?

A YES, IT WAS FOREIGN MADE. Q IT LOOKED EXPENSIVE? A YES. Q OKAY. WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN TO THE BRONCO, DID YOU ASK PERMISSION FROM

LIEUTENANT VANNATTER BEFORE YOU DID THAT? A DETECTIVE VANNATTER? NO. Q I'M SORRY, DETECTIVE VANNATTER. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A NO. Q DETECTIVE LANGE? A NO. Q THIS WAS ON YOUR OWN INITIATIVE? A YES. Q AND YOU WERE DETECTING AT THIS

POINT, I TAKE IT? A I'M SORRY? Q YOU WERE DETECTING? A I WAS DETECTING. Q YOU HAD BEEN FROZEN IN YOUR FUNCTION BY THE NOTICE OF DISMISSAL BUT

NOW YOU ARE BACK AGAIN DETECTING, TRUE? A NO. AT THAT POINT I WASN'T DETECTING; I WAS JUST WALKING. Q YOU WEREN'T JUST BEING NOSY, WERE YOU?

A I DON'T THINK NOSY. I WAS WALKING AND I NOTICED SOMETHING ON THE BRONCO AND I CONTINUED WALKING TOWARDS IT.

Q WELL, WAS THIS A WALK THAT YOU TOOK TO GET SOME EXERCISE AND JUST HAPPENED TO TAKE YOU BY THE BRONCO? IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

A IT WASN'T A WALK FOR EXERCISE. I JUST WALKED DOWN TO THE CORNER AND LOOKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM, SAW THE BRONCO. Q WAS IT A WALK SPECIFICALLY TO

INSPECT THE BRONCO FOR SOME PURPOSE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO. Q IT WASN'T? A NO. Q IS IT SIMPLY

THAT YOU WERE IN ITS VICINITY AND DECIDED TO LOOK AROUND ONCE YOU GOT THERE? A I WAS WALKING DOWN TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM

GATE. AS I WALKED TOWARD THE BRONCO I NOTICED A FEW THINGS. Q ALL RIGHT. WHILE YOU WERE WALKING TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, WERE YOU

GOING TO TRY TO GET IN THAT GATE? A NO. Q HAD YOU EXAMINED IT TO SEE IF ACCESS WAS POSSIBLE? A I DON'T THINK ACCESS WAS ON MY MIND AT THAT

POINT. Q HAD ANYBODY DIRECTED YOU TO CHECK OUT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE TO SEE IF YOU COULD GET IN? A NO, NO. Q AND AS YOU WALKED BY THE

BRONCO, ON THE STREET SIDE, TOWARD THE CENTER OF THE STREET, HOW LIGHT WAS IT AT THAT POINT? A IT WAS GETTING LIGHT, BUT IT WASN'T COMPLETELY

DAWN YET. Q CAN YOU HELP US AS TO WHAT TIME IT MAY HAVE BEEN WHEN YOU WALKED BY THE BRONCO, TIME OF DAY? A 5:20, 5:25. Q OKAY.

AND DO YOU THINK THAT THE DAWN WAS BEGINNING TO COME, SOME NATURAL LIGHT WAS ON THE SCENE AT THE TIME? A MAYBE

SOMEWHAT, YES. Q WELL, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO SEE INTO THE BRONCO WITHOUT YOUR FLASHLIGHT YOU TOLD US? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q HAD YOU BEEN

WANDERING DOWN THE STREET WITH THAT LITTLE BITTY FLASHLIGHT ON, JUST KIND OF POINTING OFF TO THE SIDE? A NO. Q DID SOMETHING

CAUSE YOU TO STOP AND TURN YOUR FLASHLIGHT ON TO INSPECT THE BRONCO? A YES. Q WHAT WAS THAT? A A LITTLE SPECK

ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE. Q IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAUGHT YOUR EYE OR SOMETHING THAT YOU DISCOVERED BY INSPECTION?

A I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAUGHT MY EYE. Q AND AT THAT POINT YOU TURN ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK? A YES, THEN I INSPECTED.

Q OKAY. AND AFTER YOU SEE THAT, YOU LOOK FURTHER, CORRECT? A YES. Q AND YOU SEE SOME ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THAT YOU THINK MIGHT BE BLOOD?

A YES. Q WOULD YOU DESCRIBE ONCE AGAIN WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU SAW AND WHERE YOU SAW IT; NOT THE ONE ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE, BUT

ELSEWHERE? A IN THE DOORSILL OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR DIRECTLY BELOW THE DOOR, VISIBLE FROM THE OUTSIDE ON THE EDGE OF THE DOORSILL, THREE OR FOUR LITTLE

MARKS, LITTLE LINES, TRANSLUCENT RED. Q AND TO WHOM, OTHER THAN THE DETECTIVES, DID YOU DIRECT ATTENTION AS TO THE THESE LITTLE MARKS?

A WHO DID I SHOW THOSE MARKS TO? Q YEAH. A DENNIS FUNG, THE CRIMINALIST. Q OKAY. DID YOU RECOMMEND TO HIM THAT THEY WOULD BE WORTH PHOTOGRAPHING? A I MADE NO

RECOMMENDATIO N S. Q DID YOU EVER SEE A PHOTOGRAPHER AT ROCKINGHAM? A YES. Q WHO WAS THAT? A I SAW MR.

ROKAHR THERE. Q WHEN? A HE CAME BACK UP WITH ME AFTER I RETURNED TO THE BUNDY SCENE. Q UH-HUH. A SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOME

TIME AFTER 7:30. Q DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHS? A NO. Q DO YOU KNOW IF THERE IS ANYWHERE TODAY A PHOTOGRAPH OF

WHAT YOU SAY YOU SAW ON THE LOWER PART OF THE BRONCO BELOW THE DOOR? A I HAVE NOT SEEN A PHOTOGRAPH. Q OKAY. WAS THAT BRONCO LOCKED, DETECTIVE

FUHRMAN? A I DID NOT TRY TO OPEN THE DOOR. Q EVER? A NO. Q NEVER TOUCHED THE DOOR HANDLE THAT WHOLE DAY, THE 13TH?

A I DID NOT. Q OR ANY PART OF THE CAR? A I LAID THE BACK OF MY PALM ON THE HOOD OF THE CAR TO SEE IF THE VEHICLE WAS WARM, YES, SIR. Q TAKING ITS TEMPERATURE?

A YES, SIR. Q YES. A OTHER THAN THAT, NO. Q OKAY. WELL, YOU TOUCHED THE VEHICLE WHEN YOU CUPPED YOUR FLASHLIGHT IN ORDER TO SEE IN

THROUGH THE TINTED WINDOW YOU HAVE DESCRIBED? A NO. Q YOU DIDN'T TOUCH IT? A NO. Q YOU SIMPLY CAME CLOSE? A I TRIED TO CUP

THE LIGHT SO I COULD GET A VIEW INSIDE. Q OKAY. AND YOU THEN BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES, AT

LEAST I BELIEVE TOM LANGE, THE FACT THAT YOU HAD MADE THIS OBSERVATION? A YES. Q OKAY. DID YOU SHOW IT TO ANYONE ELSE? A DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

Q UH-HUH. A AND DETECTIVE LANGE AND I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAME DOWN AT SOME POINT, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHEN. Q OKAY.

THAT WAS AS A RESULT OF YOUR RETURNING TO THE ASHFORD GATE, MENTIONING WHAT YOU HAD SEEN AND THEN WALKING

BACK WITH YOU TO THE BRONCO? A I'M NOT SURE I WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE ASHFORD GATE. I THINK I WALKED TO THE INTERSECTION

OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM AND MOTIONED. Q OKAY. BUT THEN YOU WENT BACK WITH THEM? A YES, SIR. Q TO POINT OUT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT WHAT

YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD SEEN? A YES. Q DID YOU ALSO SHOW THEM THE INTERIOR WITH THE SHOVEL AND THE PLASTIC? A YES. I'M NOT

SURE HOW WELL THEY SAW IT, BUT I SHOWED THEM TO THE BEST I COULD, YES. Q ALL RIGHT. OF WHAT SIGNIFICANCE DID YOU DRAW AT THAT TIME FROM THE PRESENCE OF

THE SHOVEL AND THE BRONCO? A WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THAT SHOVEL MEANT. Q AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE PLASTIC MEANT? A NO. Q BECAUSE YOU

DIDN'T KNOW THEN AND DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL SATURDAY THAT IT CAME WITH THE CAR, RIGHT? A THAT'S TRUE. Q OKAY. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT

AN IMPORTANT MATTER THAT WAS DISCUSSED BY YOU FELLAS, THE PRESENCE OF THE SHOVEL? A I DON'T KNOW IF IT COULD BE ON ITS OWN -- IT COULD BE

IMPORTANT. COLLECTIVELY IT COULD HAVE SOME IMPACT. Q ALL RIGHT. WHOSE IDEA WAS IT TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM, IF YOU KNOW? A COMMANDER

BUSHEY, I BELIEVE. Q OKAY. HOW WAS THAT CONVEYED TO YOU? YOU DIDN'T SPEAK TO THE COMMANDER, DID YOU? A NO, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DID. Q OKAY.

AND HOW DID YOU LEARN THAT YOU WERE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM? A I WAS TOLD WHEN I CAME BACK FROM TALKING TO OFFICER RISKE, "GET IN THE CAR." Q JUST SAID, "GET

IN THE CAR"? A WELL, RON SAID, "LET'S GO," AND I HEARD DETECTIVE LANGE AND VANNATTER, I BELIEVE IT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE SAID, "RON, MARK, LET'S GO."

RON SAID "LET'S GO." I GOT INTO THE CAR AND THEN HE TOLD ME WHEN WE GOT IN THE VEHICLE. Q WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?

A HE SAID WE WERE GOING TO GO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, "TAKE US UP TO THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE." Q HAD YOU TALKED

TO ANYONE ON THE SCENE THAT NIGHT, ANYONE AT ALL, ABOUT YOUR PRIOR EXPERIENCES WITH MR. SIMPSON IN '85 OR '89, EITHER OR

BOTH? A YES, THE '85 INCIDENT. Q TO WHOM DID YOU CONVEY THAT? A WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ON THE PHONE, HE BROKE AWAY, IT

APPEARED TO BE IN MID CONVERSATION, AND ASKED IF I KNEW HOW TO GET UP TO THE SIMPSON HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM.

Q BACK UP A MINUTE, IF WE COULD. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IS NOW ON THE PHONE AT ABOUT FIVE O'CLOCK? A I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE BEFORE

THAT. Q CELLULAR PHONE? A YES. Q OKAY. AND SO SOMEONE IS DISCUSSING SOMETHING THAT CAUSES HIM TO ASK YOU IF YOU KNOW YOUR WAY

TO ROCKINGHAM? A YES. Q WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM AT THAT TIME? THAT YOU HAD BEEN THERE ONCE BEFORE? A I WAS THERE ON A FAMILY DISPUTE A LONG TIME AGO, AND YEAH, I

PROBABLY COULD GET UP THERE. Q AND WHAT WERE YOU TOLD BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THE PURPOSE IN THE TRIP TO ROCKINGHAM? A WELL, WHEN WE GOT IN THE

VEHICLE HE TOLD ME IT WAS TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION. Q UH-HUH. NOW, WERE YOU LOOKING, AS YOU PROCEEDED WITH THE CASE -- I TAKE IT AT THIS POINT

YOU WERE SORT OF BACK IN THE CASE? WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? A NO. Q WELL, DID YOU KNOW THAT DETECTIVE VANNATTER SAID

ON JULY 6TH THAT YOU WERE IN THE CASE ALWAYS UP TO AND INCLUDING THAT DAY? A WELL, I THINK IN MY MIND I KNOW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND HE IS

GOING TO RENDER ANY ASSISTANCE TO ROBBERY/ HOMICIDE HE CAN UNTIL THEY WANT US RELIEVED, AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING. Q ALL RIGHT. WELL,

WERE YOU ON ACTIVE DUTY, SO TO SPEAK? A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PURPOSE WAS OF GOING TO ROCKINGHAM? A WHEN I GOT IN

THE VEHICLE I DID, YES. Q YES. WAS IT TO LOOK FOR VICTIMS OR SUSPECTS OR ANYTHING OF THAT SORT? A NO. TO MY KNOWLEDGE IT

WAS NOTIFICATION. Q ALL RIGHT. HAD ANYONE DETERMINED, AS OF THAT POINT, WHETHER MR. SIMPSON WAS IN TOWN? A NO. Q WAS THE FACT

THAT HE TRAVELED A GREAT DEAL EVER DISCUSSED BY THE DETECTIVES BEFORE YOU WENT UP THERE? A I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD

HAVE KNOWN THAT. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING. Q OKAY. NOW, AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TOLD US YOU BECAME SUFFICIENTLY CONCERNED THAT

YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES DECIDED IT WAS NECESSARY TO FORCIBLY ENTER THE PREMISES BY CLIMBING OVER THE WALL, RIGHT? A YES. Q AND THAT WAS BECAUSE OF SOME

CONCERN ON YOUR PART THAT THERE MIGHT BE SUSPECTS OR VICTIMS ON THE PREMISES, SOMEBODY IN NEED OF HELP? A THAT'S CORRECT.

Q IS THAT SO? A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. YOU WENT TO THE FRONT DOOR AND COULDN'T RAISE ANYONE, CORRECT? A ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AFTER WE

ENTERED? Q YES, AFTER YOU ALL GOT INSIDE. A YES, SIR. Q THEN WALKED AROUND ON THE NORTH PATH TO WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE THE BUNGALOW ROOM

BELONGING TO KATO KAELIN? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q WHEN THE OTHERS WENT TO TALK TO ARNELLE, YOU REMAINED BEHIND? A YES. Q WERE YOU

CONCERNED ABOUT WHO KAELIN WAS? A YES. Q WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER HE HAD THE RIGHT TO BE THERE? A HE APPEARED

THAT -- IT JUST APPEARED THAT HE HAD THE RIGHT TO BE THERE. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS. Q WELL, WAS HE A SUSPECT AT THAT

POINT? A I DON'T THINK -I THINK HE WAS NOT A SUSPECT, BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM AT THAT POINT.

Q OKAY. WHY DID YOU GIVE HIM A SOBRIETY TEST? A TO MAKE SURE HE WASN'T UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL. Q AND WHY WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT...?

A I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE WASN'T UNDER THE INFLUENCE. Q AND IF HE HAD BEEN, WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO THEN? A WELL, I DON'T KNOW, SIR. I

PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE INTERVIEWED HIM RIGHT THEN OR MAYBE I WOULD HAVE TAKEN HIM INSIDE. I DON'T KNOW. Q ALL RIGHT. YOU LOOKED AROUND THE PREMISES?

A YES. Q WHERE HE WAS? A YES. Q AND MEANWHILE THE OTHERS, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD LEFT AND GONE INTO THE MAIN HOUSE?

A I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE. Q WELL, THEY WEREN'T WITH ARNELLE ANY MORE WHEN YOU CAME OUT, WERE THEY? A WELL, WHEN I CAME OUT, I

LOOKED TO MY RIGHT AND I DIDN'T SEE THEM, SO I LOOKED TO MY LEFT AND I SAW AN OPEN DOOR. Q UH-HUH. KATO WENT WITH YOU INTO THE MAIN HOUSE?

A YES. Q AND AS YOU PASSED BY THE KITCHEN, YOU HAD ALREADY SEATED HIM IN THE BAR STOOL? A YES, SIR. Q AND YOU SAW PHILLIPS ON THE

PHONE? A YES. Q DID YOU KNOW HE WAS TALKING TO MR. SIMPSON? A I DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS TALKING TO, SIR. Q DID YOU INQUIRE OF ANY OF THESE

FELLOWS WHAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS DOING? A NO. Q DID YOU SEE DETECTIVE LANGE COMFORTING ARNELLE? A NO. Q WHAT DID YOU

SEE HIM DOING? DID YOU SEE HIM IN THE ROOM? A I BELIEVE HE WAS IN THE ROOM, BUT I SAW DETECTIVE VANNATTER. THAT IS WHO I FOCUSED

ON. Q DID YOU SEE ARNELLE IN THE ROOM, MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER? A I BELIEVE THAT SHE WAS, BUT I'M NOT POSITIVE. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, HAD YOU

INTERROGATED KATO IN HIS ROOM ABOUT WHAT HE MIGHT KNOW THAT COULD HELP YOU WITH THE SOLUTION OF THIS CRIME? A I ASKED HIM A FEW QUESTIONS.

THEY WEREN'T DIRECTLY CRIME SCENE QUESTIONS, NO. Q WELL, YOU HAD BEEN TRAINED TO INTERROGATE PEOPLE, HADN'T YOU? A YES. Q AND YOU ALSO

HAD INTERROGATED MANY SUSPECTS IN YOUR CAREER, HAD YOU NOT? A YES. Q INTERROGATION IS AN IMPORTANT ART OF POLICE PROCEDURE?

A YES, SIR. Q WERE YOU QUESTIONING HIM WITH A VIEW TOWARD LEARNING SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT IN THE CASE?

A COULD BE, YES. Q LOOKING FOR SOME LITTLE SLIP OF THE TONGUE HE MIGHT MAKE THAT COULD BE SIGNIFICANT? A I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE

LOOKING FOR, SIR. Q YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR? A NO. Q BUT DID YOU QUESTION KATO FOR A TIME AND THEN YOU CAME OUT TO THE

KITCHEN, SEATED HIM IN A BAR STOOL AND SAID TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, "YOU OUGHT TO GO TALK TO HIM"? A YES. Q WHY DID YOU

THINK THAT DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOUR SUPERIOR, SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO GO TALK TO KATO KAELIN ON A BAR STOOL? A WELL, HE COULD

TAKE THAT INTERVIEW AND PUT IT TO A FORMAL INTERVIEW ON PAPER WHERE -Q YOU COULDN'T DO THAT? A I COULDN'T AT THAT POINT UNLESS

I'M DIRECTED TO BY DETECTIVE VANNATTER. Q OKAY. BUT INSTEAD YOU DIRECTED HIM, IT SOUNDS LIKE? A I DIDN'T DIRECT HIM. I JUST SAID, "YOU MIGHT WANT

TO TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR OR TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR," SOMETHING ALONG THAT -Q WHAT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE DOING AT THIS

POINT? WAS HE TIED UP DOING ANYTHING, IF YOU KNOW? A HE WASN'T IN THE FOREFRONT OF THE KITCHEN; DETECTIVE VANNATTER WAS. I

SAW HIM FIRST. Q UH-HUH. NOW, YOU THEN WALKED OUT THE FRONT DOOR? A YES. Q YOU HAD NO DIRECTION FROM ANYONE TO DO THAT, DID YOU?

A NO, I DIDN'T. Q THIS AGAIN WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ON HIS OWN, WAS IT NOT? A YES. Q YOU HAD AN IDEA THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO CHECK OUT KATO'S

CLAIM THAT SOME UNUSUAL NOISE HAD OCCURRED AT ABOUT A QUARTER OF 11:00 THAT NIGHT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE WALL OF KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?

A THAT'S CORRECT. Q ALL RIGHT. DID KATO TELL YOU, BY THE WAY, THAT O.J. HAD LEFT FOR THE AIRPORT IN THE LIMO HE HAD SEEN WHEN HE

CAME OUT THAT NIGHT AFTER HEARING THE NOISE AT AROUND 11:00 P.M. A NO. Q DID YOU EVER ASK HIM WHAT A LIMO WAS DOING THERE AT 11:00 P.M. A NO. I CUT HIS

CONVERSATION OFF AND BROUGHT HIM INTO THE HOUSE. Q AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU ASKED HIM IF HE HAD HEARD ANYTHING UNUSUAL AND THEN YOU CUT HIM

OFF AND SAID, "WHO DRIVES THAT BRONCO," DIDN'T YOU? A I BELIEVE I DID. Q WHY DID YOU CUT HIM OFF? A I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q YOU

INTERRUPTED AN ANSWER TO GET A DIFFERENT ANSWER? WAS THIS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, WHO DRIVES THAT BRONCO? A NO. HE ANSWERED THAT

QUESTION. Q HUM? A HE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Q I KNOW THAT. IN ORDER TO GET THAT ANSWER YOU CUT HIM OFF FROM ANSWERING THE

PREVIOUS QUESTION WHICH WAS DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL HAPPEN TONIGHT OR ANYTHING UNUSUAL. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

A YES. Q OKAY. WHY WAS WHO DRIVES THE BRONCO SO IMPORTANT AS TO INTERRUPT A WITNESS? A I CAN'T GIVE YOU -MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. IT IS THE OPPOSITE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. Q BY MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ASKED NO

QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM HAVING SEEN MR. SIMPSON THAT NIGHT OR AT ANY GIVEN TIME? A NO. HE HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY ASKED ABOUT IF HE KNEW

MR. SIMPSON WAS IN THE HOUSE AND HE SAID HE DID NOT. Q NO, BUT THEN HE TOLD YOU, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, AS I UNDERSTAND IT,

THAT HE HAD BEEN AWAKENED OR HAD HIS ATTENTION DRAWN, AS HE WAS TALKING ON THE PHONE TO SOMEONE, BY A STRANGE NOISE, PICTURE THAT

SHUTTERED, SOMETHING YOU SAY SOUNDED LIKE CRASHING INTO A WALL AND THAT HE THEN WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW A LIMOUSINE THERE AT ABOUT

ELEVEN O'CLOCK? ISN'T THAT WHAT HE TOLD YOU? A SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, YES. Q AND YOU DIDN'T ASK HIM WHY THE LIMOUSINE WAS THERE? A NO. Q AND YOU DIDN'T

ASK HIM IF MR. SIMPSON HAD BEEN THE ONE USING THE LIMOUSINE? A NO, I DIDN'T. Q KATO KAELIN DIDN'T LOOK TO YOU LIKE A

FELLOW WHO RODE AROUND IN LIMOUSINES, DID HE? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q DID HE? A IN THIS AREA OF LOS ANGELES, I DON'T THINK

COULD YOU SAY THAT. Q DO YOU THINK MAYBE HE ORDERED THE LIMOUSINE AND SOMEHOW STAYED BEHIND; IS THAT IT? A I HAD NO IDEA, SIR.

Q HE DIDN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT USING IT, DID HE? A THE LIMOUSINE? Q YEAH. A NO, HE DIDN'T. Q NOW, WAS IT FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCOVERING WHY

THE LIMOUSINE WAS THERE THAT YOU ASKED VANNATTER TO TALK TO HIM? A NO. I WANTED VANNATTER TO TALK TO KATO ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT

HE SAW AND HEARD. Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WERE YOU NOT CONCERNED THAT ON THE PREMISES THERE MIGHT BE SUSPECTS THAT NIGHT, VIOLENT VICIOUS PEOPLE?

A I THINK I WAS LEANING MORE TOWARD ANOTHER VICTIM THAN I WAS A SUSPECT. Q HAVE YOU NOT TESTIFIED THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED THAT THERE WERE

SUSPECTS THERE THAT NIGHT? A I SAID VICTIMS. I PREFACED IT WITH VICTIMS, POSSIBLY OF SUSPECTS -Q HAD YOU NOT TESTIFIED THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED THAT THERE WERE

SUSPECTS? THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT. MR. BAILEY, HE WAS STILL ANSWERING THE QUESTION. MR. BAILEY: I'M SORRY. THE WITNESS: I PREFACED THAT WITH MY FIRST

CONCERN WAS VICTIMS, HOSTAGE, POSSIBLE SUSPECT, YES. Q BY MR. BAILEY: WHAT DID YOU MEAN EARLIER TODAY WHEN YOU SAID I DIDN'T

WANT MY BACK TURNED TO THE OTHER END OF THE ALLEY? A ONCE I FOUND A GLOVE, THAT PIVOTED TOWARDS MORE SUSPECT THAN VICTIM.

Q NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU WENT OUT THERE IN THE ALLEY WHERE YOU HAD NEVER BEEN BEFORE, DID YOU NOT? A WHAT ALLEY, SIR?

Q ALONG THE CHAINLINK FENCE WHERE KATO SAID HE HEARD A NOISE? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q DID YOU NOT? A YES, I WENT ON THAT PATHWAY. Q YOU WALKED

THERE BY YOURSELF, CORRECT? A YES. Q YOU WERE WEARING NO BULLET PROOF VEST, CORRECT? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q YOU HAD THREE

DETECTIVES WHO WERE ARMED IN THE HOUSE AND DIDN'T TELL ANY OF THEM WHERE YOU WERE GOING, CORRECT? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q YOU DIDN'T ASK ANY OF THEM TO

COME WITH YOU TO COVER FOR YOU, CORRECT? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY STATED THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY

THAT DANGEROUS PEOPLE WERE ON THE PREMISES, HAD YOU NOT? A I NEVER USED THOSE WORDS. Q WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO THE LOCATION WHERE

KATO SAID HE HEARD THE NOISE, YOU WERE ABOUT 230 FEET FROM THE BRONCO, WEREN'T YOU? A I DON'T KNOW THE DISTANCE, SIR. Q YOU CAN WALK

THAT IN A MINUTE, CAN'T YOU? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q 235 FEET? A YES, SIR. Q CAN YOU WALK THAT IN A MINUTE? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT.

DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO? A NO. Q HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED THAT THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO? A I'M NOT SURE IF

WE TESTIFIED TO THAT IN THE PRELIM OR NOT. Q DID YOU WIPE A GLOVE IN THE BRONCO, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO. Q YOU DID NOT? A NO.

Q WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO WHERE THE GLOVE WAS EVENTUALLY POINTED OUT TO THE OTHER DETECTIVES, HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND THERE

BEFORE YOU WENT BACK TO TALK TO THEM? A TEN, FIFTEEN MINUTES TOTALLY. Q WHAT DID YOU DO FOR TEN TO FIFTEEN MINUTES ON THAT SCENE?

A LOOKED FOR A VICTIM OR A SUSPECT. Q YOU LOOKED FOR A VICTIM OR SUSPECT? A YES. Q YOU DIDN'T DRAW YOUR GUN, CORRECT?

A I TOLD YOU I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q WELL, IF YOU HAD DRAWN YOUR WEAPON AND WERE AFRAID, YOU WOULD REMEMBER THAT, WOULDN'T YOU, DETECTIVE?

A SIR, AFTER TWENTY YEARS YOU DRAW THAT WEAPON UNCONSCIOUSLY -Q DID YOU DRAW -MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. CAN THE WITNESS BE ALLOWED TO

FINISH HIS ANSWER? MR. BAILEY: I THOUGHT HE HAD. Q DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING MORE TO ADD? A YES, I DO, SIR. Q OKAY. WHAT IS IT? A AFTER TWENTY

YEARS YOU DRAW THAT WEAPON, YOU LAY IT DOWN TO THE SIDE OF YOUR LEG, YOU WALK, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU ARE DOING IT. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU WALK

BACK INTO AN AREA WHERE YOU KNEW NO ONE ELSE HAD BEEN BECAUSE THERE WERE COBWEBS THERE? A NO. I TESTIFIED I DIDN'T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAD

BEEN BACK THERE WALKING UPRIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF SOMEBODY HAD CRAWLED. Q ARE YOU NOW SAYING THERE ARE NO COBWEBS DOWN LOW?

A I DIDN'T GO DOWN LOW, SIR. I WAS UPRIGHT. Q YOU ONLY FELT THEM IN YOUR FACE? A YES. Q YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER YOU HAD YOUR WEAPON AT THE

READY OR WHETHER IT WAS HOLSTERED AT SOME OTHER PLACE? A IT WAS NOT AT THE READY. Q YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE NOT EQUIPPED WITH ANY PROTECTIVE

GEAR, CORRECT? A I WAS NOT. Q NOW, IF THAT GLOVE HAD BEEN THERE WHERE YOU SAY YOU FOUND IT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PLACED THERE BY SOMEONE

INVOLVED IN THE HOMICIDE; ISN'T THAT CONCLUSION COMPELLED? A I WOULD ASSUME THAT, YES. Q THAT WOULD BE A VICIOUS KILLER OF SOME SORT,

WOULD IT NOT? A YES. Q AND YOU HUNG AROUND FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES WITH NO BACK-UP AND NO VEST DOING SOMETHING; IS THAT CORRECT? A NO, IT ISN'T.

Q HAD ANYONE, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, SEEN THAT GLOVE THERE BEFORE YOUR ARRIVAL? A NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. Q ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU THINK

IT IMPORTANT THAT IF THE GLOVE WERE IN THAT LOCATION, THE LIKELIHOOD WAS THAT SOMEONE HAD PLACED IT THERE WHO HAD BEEN AT BUNDY? A YES.

Q AND THAT SOMEONE, IF IT WERE A HUMAN BEING, WOULD HAVE TO HAVE GOTTEN TO THE SPOT OR NEAR IT AND GOTTEN AWAY, TRUE? A YES.

Q DID YOU EXAMINE THE SHRUBBERY TO SEE IF ANYONE HAD COME OVER THAT FENCE THAT MIGHT HAVE CRASHED THE WALL OR DROPPED

THE GLOVE? A THAT WAS PART OF THE PERIOD THAT I SPENT BACK THERE LOOKING FOR THOSE TYPE OF ITEMS, YES. Q DID YOU NOT

SATISFY YOURSELF THAT THERE WAS NO DAMAGE TO TWIG OR LEAF THAT WOULD HAVE PERMITTED AN ADULT TO COME OVER THAT FENCE AT OR NEAR THAT

SPOT? A IT WAS PRETTY OVERGROWN. IT WOULD BE HARD TO TELL WHAT TRANSPIRED THERE. Q DID IT NOT SEEM LIKELY THAT WHOEVER PLACED THAT GLOVE

THERE, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, HAD WALKED BACK OVER THE ALLEY OVER THE LEAVES? THE COURT: EXCUSE ME. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? Q BY MR. BAILEY: I'M SORRY, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, OVER THE LEAVES? A YES. Q AND THEIR TRACKS MIGHT STILL HAVE BEEN

THERE WHEN YOU MADE THAT DISCOVERY, CORRECT? A I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING, BUT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN. Q AND YOU COULD HAVE TAKEN THE

DETECTIVE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE FENCE AND SHOWN THE FLASHLIGHT THROUGH IT TO POINT OUT THE GLOVE, IF YOU HAD CHOSEN, COULD

YOU NOT? A NO. I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT.... Q DID YOU THINK THAT WHOEVER HAD DROPPED THAT GLOVE MIGHT HAVE LEFT

FOOTPRINTS? A I DID NOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT, NO. Q FOOTPRINTS THAT WERE LATENT, NOT DISCERNIBLE? DID YOU THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE

FOOTPRINTS THERE THAT A CRIMINALIST COULD FIND THAT MIGHT SHED LIGHT ON HOW THE GLOVE GOT THERE...? A NOT AT THAT

POINT, NO. Q BY MR. BAILEY: YOU DID NOT? A NO. Q DID YOU THEN CAUSE EIGHTEEN PAIRS OF FEET TO TRAMPLE THAT AREA BEFORE ANY CRIMINALIST COULD GET TO IT?

A EIGHTEEN PAIRS OF FEET? Q EIGHTEEN PAIRS OF FEET. TWO FUHRMAN, FOUR FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS, FOUR FUHRMAN AND VANNATTER, FOUR FUHRMAN AND LANGE AND FOUR

FUHRMAN AND ROKAHR? DID YOU DO THAT? A YES, SIR. Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, CAN YOU TELL US WHY, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING WITH KATO KAELIN IN HIS ROOM, YOU

ASKED HIM WHERE YOU COULD FIND THE KEYS TO THE BRONCO? A I NEVER ASKED HIM THAT. Q YOU ARE QUITE SURE? A I'M ABSOLUTELY SURE....

COURT ADJOURNED FOR THE DAY. LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 1995 9:42 A.M. THE COURT: ...YOU MAY RESUME WITH

YOUR CROSSEXAMINATI ON. MR. BAILEY: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. CROSSEXAMINATI ON (RESUMED) BY MR. BAILEY: Q DETECTIVE

FUHRMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW WITH YOU THE STEPS YOU HAVE TAKEN TO PREPARE YOURSELF FOR TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE. WHEN WAS THE

FIRST TIME FOLLOWING THE PRELIMINARY HEARING THAT YOU MET WITH ONE OF THE PROSECUTORS, THOSE AT THE TABLE AND THOSE

NOT AT THE TABLE, THAT YOU KNOW TO BE CONNECTED WITH THIS CASE, TO DISCUSS THE CASE AND/OR YOUR TESTIMONY? A ARE YOU SAYING POST-PRELIM, SIR?

Q POSTPRELIMINAR Y HEARING. A PROBABLY WITHIN THE LAST MONTH, MONTH AND A HALF. Q DO I UNDERSTAND THAT

THERE HAS BEEN NO CONTACT BETWEEN YOU AND ANY OF THE PROSECUTORS IN THIS CASE UP UNTIL 1995? A WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS TESTIMONY,

NO. Q ABOUT THIS CASE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? YOU ARE VERY MUCH A PART OF THIS CASE, AREN'T YOU? A YES, SIR. Q YEAH. AND YOU CAUSED THAT BY

FINDING AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE, DIDN'T YOU? A YES, SIR. Q YOU KNEW FULL WELL THAT ONCE YOU CAME UP WITH A PIECE OF

EVIDENCE OF THAT SORT THERE WASN'T ANYBODY THAT COULD GET YOU OUT OF THIS CASE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL

WITNESS, RIGHT? DID YOU KNOW THAT...? A SIR, THE WAY YOU PHRASED THAT, "GET ME OUT OF THIS CASE"? I WASN'T TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS CASE.

Q SOMEBODY WAS TRYING TO GET YOU OUT. YOU TOLD US THAT IN SOME DETAIL YESTERDAY. YOU WERE OUT YOU THOUGHT? A OH, YOU MEAN THE

RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CASE? Q YEAH. A YES, SIR. Q YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE OFF THE CASE AS A DETECTIVE. WHEN YOU STOOD

FOR AN HOUR AT THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE THROUGH, DIDN'T YOU? A I'M STILL A DETECTIVE, SIR, BUT AS FAR AS

BEING THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR, YES, THAT'S CORRECT. Q YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE OFF THE CASE? ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY?

A YES. Q OKAY. BUT WHEN YOU TURNED OUT TO FIND THIS GLOVE OVER AT ROCKINGHAM, YOU KNEW THAT YOU WOULD BE ON THE CASE AS LONG AS

IT LASTED, DIDN'T YOU? A NO.... Q DID YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD BE AN ESSENTIAL WITNESS IF YOU WERE THE FIRST TO FIND AN

IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE? A WELL, I COULDN'T MAKE THAT DETERMINATION AT THAT TIME, SIR. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE IMPLICATION OF

THE GLOVE WAS.... Q DID YOU TELL US YESTERDAY THAT WHEN YOU SPOTTED THIS GLOVE, AS YOU CLAIM, THAT YOU RECOGNIZED IT AS ONE THAT LOOKED SIMILAR TO THE

ONE ON BUNDY? A YES. Q AND THAT YOU KNEW THAT THE ONE ON BUNDY, I BELIEVE YOU SAID, WAS A LEFTHANDED GLOVE OR

BELIEVED IT TO BE, DID YOU NOT? A NO. Q DID NOT? YOU NOTICED THAT THIS APPEARED TO BE A RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE? A YES.

Q AND THE REASON THAT YOU HAD THREE DETECTIVES IN THREE SEPARATE TRIPS TRAMPLE BACK ALONG THAT PATH WAS BECAUSE

YOU WANTED TO POINT OUT TO THEM THE FACT THAT THIS GLOVE LOOKED LIKE A MATCH FOR THE ONE THEY HAD SEEN OVER AT THE CRIME SCENE ON BUNDY; ISN'T THAT TRUE?

A NOT ENTIRELY. I JUST WANTED TO SHOW THEM THE EVIDENCE THAT I THOUGHT I FOUND. Q DIDN'T YOU SAY TO THEM, "IN MY VIEW THIS LOOKS SIMILAR," OR WORDS TO THAT

EFFECT? A I BELIEVE I SAID THAT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE I WENT INTO THAT DETAIL WITH THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES, NO. Q DID YOU SAY

ANYTHING WHEN YOU TOOK MR. VANNATTER BACK THERE? ANYTHING AT ALL? A I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD HAVE SAID. I BELIEVE DETECTIVE

PHILLIPS TALKED TO VANNATTER AND LANGE. THEY JOINED ME AND I TOOK THEM BACK THE PATH. Q I DIDN'T ASK YOU THAT, SIR. WHAT I ASKED YOU

WAS WHETHER OR NOT DURING THE TRIP YOU HAVE DESCRIBED, TRIP NO. 2, ACTUALLY NO. 3, IF YOU COUNT YOUR OWN, DID DETECTIVE PHILIP VANNATTER,

THE BOSS IN THIS CASE, DID YOU SHARE WITH HIM YOUR OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE GLOVE OR DID YOU JUST REMAIN SILENT? A I COULD HAVE SHARED THOSE OBSERVATIONS,

YES. I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY. Q YOU RECALL PHILLIPS BUT YOU DON'T RECALL DETECTIVE VANNATTER; IS THAT RIGHT? A INITIALLY I JUST REMEMBER

TALKING TO PHILLIPS. Q LET'S GO TO DETECTIVE LANGE. YOU THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BRING THE THIRD MEMBER OF THE FOUR-MAN TEAM

BACK TO LOOK, DIDN'T YOU? A YES. Q OKAY. AND DID YOU TELL DETECTIVE LANGE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE RELEVANCE OF THAT GLOVE TO YOUR

INVESTIGATION? A I DON'T BELIEVE I TALKED ABOUT RELEVANCE. Q WELL, WITHOUT USING THE WORD "RELEVANCE," JUST POLICE TALK, DID YOU SAY "THIS

LOOKS IMPORTANT, TOM"? A NO. Q WHAT DID YOU SAY? A I SAID, "IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE SIMILAR TO THE ONE ON BUNDY."

Q YOU HAVE TOLD US A NUMBER OF TIMES THAT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU NOTICED ABOUT THE GLOVE WAS THAT IT WAS MOIST AND STICKY, CORRECT?

A YES, YES. Q AND DID YOU POINT THAT OUT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, THAT NOT ONLY DID IT LOOK LIKE THE GLOVE FROM BUNDY, BUT THAT IT APPEARED TO

HAVE A SUBSTANCE ON IT MAKING IT STICKY WHICH COULD WELL HAVE BEEN BLOOD? A I'M NOT SURE IF I DID OR IF I DIDN'T. Q BUT IT HAD BEEN

THROUGH YOUR MIND, HADN'T IT? A YES. Q AND THE STICKY PART I TAKE IT YOU OBSERVED WHEN YOU TOOK THAT LITTLE TINY FLASHLIGHT OF

YOURS AND SHINED IT ON THE GLOVE AND SAW SOMETHING OF A SHINY NATURE, AS OPPOSED TO A CAKED OR DRY SURFACE? A IT APPEARED THAT IT HAD

SOMEWHAT OF A GLEAN OR A GLISTEN TO IT. Q OKAY. NOW, MY QUESTION IS DID YOU BRING THAT TO THE ATTENTION OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A I COULD HAVE. Q DID YOU BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF DETECTIVE LANGE? A I COULD HAVE. Q DID YOU BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF DETECTIVE

VANNATTER? A I COULD HAVE. Q YOU DON'T HAVE A MEMORY OF ANY OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS AS WE SIT HERE? A I DON'T HAVE A MEMORY OF A SPECIFIC

COMMENT THAT I MADE TO ANY OF THOSE DETECTIVES WHEN WE WERE STANDING BY THE GLOVE. Q WERE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN SHOWING EACH

DETECTIVE INDIVIDUALLY THE GLOVE OR MORE INTERESTED IN TRAMPLING UP THE PATHWAY? A WELL, OBVIOUSLY I WAS INTERESTED IN

SHOWING EACH DETECTIVE SEPARATELY AND GET A SEPARATE POINT OF VIEW OF WHAT THEY WERE VIEWING, AS I DID. Q IS IT YOUR PRACTICE, WHEN SOMETHING IS DISCOVERED, TO

PROHIBIT DETECTIVES, EXCEPT ONE AT A TIME, TO SEE YOUR DISCOVERY? IS THAT THE WAY YOU USUALLY OPERATE? A AT A CRIME

SCENE YOU WOULD WANT TO BRING IN AS FEW PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE INTO AN AREA. Q AS FEW PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. EIGHTEEN SETS OF FEET IS A FEW PEOPLE?

A WELL, IF WE DID IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN WORSE. Q IT WOULD? A YES. Q WOULDN'T YOU THINK THE FIRST

FOUR TRIPS WOULD BE ENOUGH TO BLOT OUT ANY FOOTPRINTS OF THE PERPETRATOR, IF ANY THERE WERE? A I DIDN'T SEE EVIDENCE OF ANY

FOOTPRINTS.... Q NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW WHAT YOU CLAIM WAS A BROWN OBJECT LAYING ON THE GROUND, AS YOU APPROACHED IT AND YOU NOTICED THAT IT WAS A GLOVE, PERHAPS A

MATCH OF THE ONE YOU HAD SEEN AT BUNDY, DID YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU SHOULD NEXT DO? A YES. Q DID IT -- DID YOU THEN EXAMINE, BY

THE WAY, THE SHRUBBERY OVER THE CHAINLINK FENCE WHERE SOMEONE COULD CONCEIVABLY HAVE CLIMBED OVER? A I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T FOCUS MY

ATTENTION TO THE SHRUBBERY AT THAT TIME, NO. Q DID YOU INSPECT IT TO SEE WHETHER IT WAS DAMAGED IN ANY WAY CONSISTENT WITH

INTRUSION? A THAT WHOLE AREA WAS OVERGROWN AND DIRTY. THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO MAKE THAT CONCLUSION.

Q DID YOU LOOK FOR BROKEN TWIGS OR LEAVES THAT WERE DAMAGED IN THE SHRUBBERY ABOVE THE CHAINLINK FENCE AT THE SITUS

WHERE THE GLOVE WAS SEEN? A I DID NOT LOOK, BUT I DID NOT SEE ANY OF THAT. Q SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE AT THAT POINT ANY INTEREST IN WHETHER OR NOT

SOMEONE HAD DROPPED THE GLOVE COMING OVER THE FENCE? A MY INTEREST AT THAT POINT WAS WHO LEFT THE GLOVE AND WHAT CONDITION THEY WERE IN.

Q ALL RIGHT. LET'S ANALYZE THAT. YOU SAID "WHAT CONDITION THEY WERE IN." WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A WELL, THERE APPEARED TO BE

SOMETHING ON THE GLOVE THAT COULD BE BLOOD. Q THAT'S RIGHT. WHICH COULD WELL HAVE GOTTEN THERE IF THE KILLER HAD WORN IT WHILE SLAUGHTERING NICOLE BROWN

AND RONALD GOLDMAN, CORRECT? A POSSIBLY. Q WELL, DID YOU THINK OF THAT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A I THOUGHT OF A LOT OF THINGS AT THAT TIME.

Q DID YOU THINK OF THAT? A THAT ALONG WITH OTHERS. Q ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S TAKE THEM ONE AT A TIME. YOU CONSIDERED THAT THIS GLOVE COULD

HAVE BEEN USED IN THOSE SLAYINGS AND THAT WAS OF SIGNIFICANCE, CORRECT? A COULD HAVE, YES. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU DECIDE TO

INQUIRE FURTHER AS A DETECTIVE TO TRY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE AS TO WHAT IT WAS AND HOW IT GOT THERE? A AT THAT POINT I WAS JUST LOOKING

FOR A PERSON THAT LEFT IT. Q OKAY. NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PERSON THAT LEFT IT. I'M SURE THAT AS YOU STOOD THERE LOOKING AT AN

INSTRUMENTALIT Y OF A BRUTAL MURDER WHOSE SCENE YOU HAD JUST VISITED A SHORT TIME BEFORE YOU BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE

PERSON THAT MIGHT HAVE HAD CONTROL AND CUSTODY OF THAT GLOVE, CORRECT? A NO. Q YOU DIDN'T? A NO. Q WELL, DID YOU THINK A VICTIM, SOME VICTIM YOU

HADN'T DISCOVERED, MIGHT HAVE TAKEN A GLOVE FROM THE SCENE OF THE CRIME AND DEPOSITED IT ON O.J. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY?

A SIR, I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING AT THAT POINT. Q DID YOU THINK THAT? A NO. Q OKAY. DID YOU THINK THAT POSSIBLY

SOMEONE WHO HAD BEEN INVOLVED AS A KILLER MIGHT HAVE DEPOSITED THAT GLOVE WITTINGLY OR UNWITTINGLY ON MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY? A I DID NOT THINK

OF ANY OF THESE THINGS AT THAT TIME.... Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT THOUGHTS WERE YOU HAVING ABOUT YOUR SAFETY WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING AT WHAT YOU

THOUGHT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DROPPED BY A KILLER? A AT THAT TIME I WAS THINKING THAT WHO IS WATCHING ME AT THIS TIME. Q AHA. DID YOU HAVE ANY

CONCERN AT ALL THAT YOU MIGHT BE ATTACKED? A POSSIBLY. Q YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER STANDING THERE WITH HIS WEAPON STICKING OUT FOR ALL TO SEE,

WEREN'T YOU? A YES. Q ON YOUR HIP? A YES. Q THAT WOULD REPRESENT IN YOUR VIEW SOME KIND OF THREAT TO SOMEBODY WITH BLOOD ON HIS

HANDS, WOULDN'T IT? A YES. Q YOU HAD NO REASON TO THINK THAT WHOEVER WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT GLOVE WAS WOUNDED, DID YOU? A YES, I DID.

Q DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD LEADING TO OR FROM THE GLOVE IN ANY DIRECTION, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO. Q WELL, IF THEY WERE WOUNDED, DID YOU THINK

THEY HAD BEEN TO A DOCTOR AND GOT FIXED UP? A I COULDN'T SPECULATE ON THAT, SIR. Q WELL, WHY DID YOU THINK THEY WERE WOUNDED? YOU TELL ME?

A SOMEONE LEAVING THE SCENE AT BUNDY WAS BLEEDING FROM THE LEFT SIDE OF THEIR BODY. Q YOU ARE SURE OF THAT? A I'M NOT SURE,

BUT AT THAT TIME THAT WAS A CONCLUSION THAT WE HAD MADE.... Q NOW, COMING BACK, IF WE WILL, IF WE MAY, TO BUNDY, WAS IT NOT

REALLY YOUR IDEA TO SCALE THE WALL AND GO INTO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE, PREMISES? A DETECTIVE VANNATTER MADE A STATEMENT THAT

WE SHOULD GO IN AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO IT AND I SAID, "WELL, I WILL GO OVER THE WALL." Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IN FACT,

ISN'T IT TRUE THAT YOU WENT TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND URGED UPON HIM THAT THIS WAS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, THAT ACTION HAD TO BE TAKEN

IMMEDIATELY, THAT THERE MIGHT BE VICTIMS BLEEDING TO DEATH INSIDE THE PREMISES, AND YOU FELT SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW? ISN'T THAT WHAT

HAPPENED? A NO. THAT WAS A CONVERSATION BETWEEN VANNATTER, MYSELF, AND BOTH OF US EXPERIENCED THE SAME CONCERNS. Q DID YOU SAY TO

HIM "IN MY VIEW THIS IS AN EMERGENCY AND WE NEED TO ACT NOW"? A YES. Q DID YOU NOT SAY THAT TO HIM BEFORE HE MADE ANY SUCH STATEMENT TO

YOU? A HE WAS MAKING SIMILAR STATEMENTS TO ME AT THE SAME TIME IN THIS CONVERSATION. Q AND DID YOU VOLUNTEER TO BE THE ONE THAT

HURDLED THE WALL? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU REALIZE, WHEN YOU HURDLED THAT WALL, THAT THERE MIGHT SOME DAY BE A LEGAL

CHALLENGE TO THE PROPRIETY OF YOUR ACTIONS? A NO. Q DID YOU REALIZE, WHEN YOU HURDLED THE WALL, THAT YOU

WERE INEXORABLY A PART OF THIS CASE FOR AS LONG AS IT MIGHT LAST? A I DON'T THINK I WAS THINKING ANY OF THOSE THINGS, SIR. Q IT DIDN'T OCCUR TO YOU?

A NO.... Q OKAY. WHEN YOU WENT OVER THE WALL, AND LET THE OTHER OFFICERS IN, YOU PROCEEDED ULTIMATELY TO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM, CORRECT?

A YES.... Q NOW, WHEN YOU BEGAN TO TALK TO KAELIN, YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS? A NO. Q DO YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU DIDN'T

UNDERSTAND THAT IT WAS HIS CAR PARKED OUTSIDE THE ASHFORD GATE? A NO, I DID NOT KNOW THAT. Q DID YOU EVER QUESTION HIM ABOUT WHETHER

HE HAD AN AUTOMOBILE NEARBY? A I DID NOT, NO. Q DID YOU VIEW HIM AS A SUSPECT? A HE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE SO MUCH A SUSPECT, BUT THEN AGAIN, I DIDN'T REALLY

KNOW WHAT HIS FUNCTION WAS AT THE HOUSE. Q DID YOU ASK HIM WHAT CLOTHES HE HAD WORN THAT NIGHT? A YES. Q DID HE SHOW

YOU? A YES. Q DID YOU INSPECT THEM LOOKING FOR SIGNS THAT MIGHT IN SOME WAY TIE HIM TO THE HOMICIDES? A I LOOKED AT HIS CLOTHES AND HIS

SHOES, YES. Q OKAY. YOU TURNED HIS SHOES OVER TO LOOK AT THE SOLES TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY BLOOD ON OR IN BETWEEN

THE RIDGES OF THE SOLES, CORRECT? A YES. Q WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE IN DOING THAT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY BLOOD ON THE SOLES....

Q SO I TAKE IT NOW AT THIS POINT, HAVING BEEN TO THE BRONCO AND HURDLED THE WALL AND INTERROGATING KAELIN, YOU VIEWED YOURSELF

AS A DETECTIVE VERY MUCH IN THE CASE? A WELL, I'M ALWAYS A DETECTIVE, YES. Q IN THE SIMPSON CASE? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q IS THAT YOUR PERCEPTION OF YOURSELF? A YES. I WAS ASKED TO ASSIST THOSE DETECTIVES, YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, MR. KAELIN TOLD YOU THAT THAT CAR

NORMALLY WAS DRIVEN BY MR. SIMPSON, CORRECT? A YES. I BELIEVE HE SAID IT WAS O.J.'S VEHICLE. Q AND YOU ASKED WHETHER HE HAD DRIVEN IT THAT

NIGHT? A I BELIEVE I DID, YES. Q AND MR. KAELIN RESPONDED HE THOUGHT SO, BUT HE WASN'T SURE? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q CORRECT? A I BELIEVE SO,

YES. Q THEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE QUESTION OF -ABOUT UNUSUAL OCCURRENCES, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q AND THE WORD YOU USED IN SPEAKING WITH

KATO WAS "UNUSUAL," WASN'T IT? A YES. Q AND NOW THAT HE FINALLY DID GET A CHANCE TO ANSWER, WHAT DID HE SAY? A HE SAID AT

ABOUT 10:45 HE HEARD A CRASHING ON HIS WALL AND HE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE. HIS PICTURE SHOOK. AND THEN HE CONTINUED TO

SAY THAT HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE IT AND HE SAW A LIMO AT THE GATE. Q WELL, HE NEVER SUGGESTED TO YOU THAT HE

WENT BACK ALONG THE WALL BETWEEN THE WALL AND THE FENCE TO THE AREA OF THE NOISE, DID HE? A NO, SIR.... Q DID YOU THEN AND THERE,

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DECIDE ON YOUR OWN TO GO OUT AND INVESTIGATE THE SOURCE OF THAT SOUND? A I DECIDED TO GO OUT AND TRY TO ORIENT MYSELF WITH THE

PROPERTY AND SEE WHERE THAT SOUND COULD HAVE COME FROM, YES. Q DID YOU DECIDE THAT YOU WOULD GO TO THE PROBABLE SOURCE

AS DESCRIBED BY MR. KAELIN BY RELATING IT TO AN AIR CONDITIONER THAT PLAINLY STUCK THROUGH THE WALL? A I THINK WHEN I WENT TO THE SOUTH BORDER

AND I SAW THE PATH, I WALKED DOWN THE PATH AS A CONTINUATION OF DISCOVERING WHERE THAT SOUND OF THAT WALL WAS LOCATED. Q WE ARE STILL

BACK IN KATO'S ROOM. I'M ASKING WHETHER OR NOT BEFORE YOU EVER LEFT THAT ROOM YOU MADE A DECISION THAT YOU WOULD GO INVESTIGATE THE SOURCE OF THE

SOUND? A I BELIEVE WHEN I WALKED -- WHEN I WALKED HIM INTO THE HOUSE AND I WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE, WHEN I TOLD PHIL, "WHY

DON'T YOU TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR," I THINK I HAD DECIDED TO GO OUT AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT SOUND CAME

FROM ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE WALL, YES. Q AM I TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS A DECISION MADE WHILE WALKING? A YES.

Q OKAY. WHEN YOU LEFT THE ROOM YOU HADN'T MADE THE DECISION? A I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHEN IT HAPPENED, BUT I WOULD -- TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION

WOULD BE WHEN I WAS WALKING INTO THE HOUSE, YES. Q BY THE TIME THAT YOU GOT TO THE HOUSE YOU HAD MADE THE DECISION, CORRECT? A I DIDN'T REALLY

-- I CAN'T REALLY RECOLLECT EXACTLY AT WHAT STEP I DID, BUT I WAS WALKING HIM IN, ASKED HIM TO SIT DOWN. AND AS I WALKED OUT, I WALKED OUT TO TRY TO FIGURE

OUT WHERE THAT SOUND WOULD HAVE COME FROM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL. SO DURING THAT PERIOD BETWEEN -BETWEEN KAELIN'S

ROOM AND THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE OR TELLING VANNATTER IF HE WOULD TALK TO THE MAN AT THE BAR, BETWEEN THAT PERIOD I DID.

Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IS IT NOT TRUE THAT AS YOU DECIDED TO WALK OUT TO THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE YOU DECIDED TO GO ALONE? A I WAS ALREADY ALONE, SIR.

Q WELL, YOU WERE WITH KAELIN WHO COULD HAVE TAKEN YOU OUT THERE, I SUPPOSE, COULD HE NOT? A I'M SURE HE COULD HAVE. Q YOU WERE WITH

DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THE LEAD, WITH WHOM YOU NEVER DISCUSSED YOUR PLANS, CORRECT? A NO, I WASN'T WITH HIM. I YELLED TO HIM. HE WAS IN

THE KITCHEN. Q YOU WERE IN THE SAME BUILDING WITH HIM, WERE YOU NOT? A YES. Q YOU WERE THE GENTLEMAN THAT HAD TO STAND AT DOROTHY AND

BUNDY FOR AN HOUR FOR LACK OF INSTRUCTION, ARE YOU NOT? A YES. Q AND YOU DECIDED, WITHOUT CONFIDING IN ANYBODY, TO GO

ALONE BEHIND THAT BUILDING, CORRECT? A CORRECT. Q DID IT OCCUR TO YOU THAT MR. KAELIN MIGHT BE ABLE TO ASSIST YOU IN POINTING OUT THE EXACT SOURCE OF THE

NOISE AS HE RECONSTRUCTED IT? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q DID YOU THINK OF THAT? A NO.... Q HAD YOU LEARNED BY THAT TIME THAT HE

LIVED IN THAT BUNGALOW? A I THINK, YES, I CONCLUDED THAT. Q ALL RIGHT. WELL, WHY WOULD YOU INSTRUCT HIM TO SIT ON A BAR STOOL?

A BECAUSE I WANTED HIM TO SIT THERE. Q WHY DID YOU WANT HIM TO SIT THERE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A SO DETECTIVE VANNATTER OR ANOTHER

DETECTIVE COULD TALK TO HIM. Q THAT WOULD TAKE CARE OF TWO OF THEM, WOULDN'T IT? A TWO OF WHO...? Q ALL RIGHT.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT EVERYBODY HAS GOT TO BE SOMEPLACE? A I AGREE. Q AND THAT ONE PERSON CAN'T BE

IN TWO PLACES? A AGREED. Q SO THAT IF YOU CAUSED TWO PEOPLE TO JOIN TOGETHER IN A CONVERSATION AT A SPECIFIC PLACE, IT IS UNLIKELY THAT THEY WILL BE

AT ANY OTHER PLACE UNTIL THE CONVERSATION IS OVER? A I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. Q OKAY. NOW, I WILL ASK YOU ONE MORE TIME. DID YOU USE

WORDS OF INSTRUCTION TO PHIL VANNATTER TELLING HIM, WITHOUT SUGGESTING ANY SUBJECT MATTER, GO TALK TO KAELIN? A NOT IN THAT MANNER, BUT YES,

I DID. Q ALL RIGHT. YOU HAD ALREADY FORMULATED A PLAN THAT YOU WERE GOING TO LOOK OUT BEHIND THE BUILDING IN THE DARKNESS FOR

SOMETHING, CORRECT? A NO. Q YOU HAD NOT? A I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT WAS ACCESSIBLE FROM THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT AS YOU WALKED FROM THE BUNGALOW TO THE HOUSE YOU HAD MADE A DECISION THAT YOU WOULD GO LOOK AT THE

SOURCE OF THE NOISE? A I WASN'T EVEN -Q I'M SORRY, DID YOU SAY THAT? A YES. Q OKAY. WELL, THEN AT THE TIME YOU SAID, "PHIL, GO TALK TO

MR. KAELIN," YOU WERE ON YOUR WAY, WEREN'T YOU? A YES. Q YOU DIDN'T HESITATE AT ALL? ONCE THAT UTTERANCE WAS OUT OF YOUR MOUTH YOU KEPT

RIGHT ON MOVING? A YES. Q YOU SAW PHILLIPS ON THE TELEPHONE? A YES, I BELIEVE SO. Q AND DID YOU SEE

DETECTIVE LANGE? A I DON'T RECALL IF I SAW HIM. Q WAS HE IN THE PROXIMITY OF ARNELLE SIMPSON APPARENTLY ENGAGED IN CONVERSATION OF

SOME SORT? A HE COULD HAVE BEEN. Q ALL RIGHT. THAT IS FIVE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE, CORRECT? A YES. Q AFTER YOU LEAVE? ALL

ENGAGED IN DOING SOMETHING, RIGHT? A YES.... Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, I WILL ASK YOU ONCE AGAIN: WAS IT NOT YOUR PURPOSE TO BE IN THE AREA ALONG

THE SOUTH WALL ALONE? A NO, IT WASN'T. Q IT JUST WORKED OUT THAT WAY? IS THAT IT? A I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE SOUTH WALL WAS ACCESSIBLE. Q NO. IT JUST

WORKED OUT THAT YOU LEFT THE HOUSE AND MADE YOUR INVESTIGATION FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES OR MORE ALONE? A THAT IS HOW IT

WORKED OUT. Q THAT IS HOW IT WORKED OUT. YOU NOW WALK BACK THE PATHWAY TOWARD WHAT YOU THINK WILL BE THE WALL WITH THE AIR CONDITIONER,

CORRECT? A YES. Q AT THAT POINT YOU ARE SOLELY EXPECTING TO INQUIRE INTO POSSIBLE SOURCES OF SOMETHING THAT THUMPED THE WALL AND

MADE A PICTURE SHAKE? A THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY, YES.... Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU THEN PROCEEDED DOWN A DARKENED AREA WHICH YOU NOW SAY HAD COBWEBS

AT LEAST AT THE UPPER SECTION? A YES. Q WHEN YOU ORIGINALLY DESCRIBED THIS VENTURE, YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE COBWEBS

BEING ONLY AT THE UPPER PART OF THE WALL, DID YOU? A I THINK THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE I FELT THEM, SO I WOULDN'T HAVE GONE INTO

ANYTHING LOWER. Q THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION WAS, WHEN YOU EARLIER DESCRIBED THIS IN JULY, YOU DIDN'T

MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE COBWEBS, OTHER THAN BEING EAST OF THE POINT WHERE THE GLOVE WAS, CORRECT?

A I THINK THAT'S CORRECT, YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WOULD YOU REVIEW WITH US, PLEASE, WHAT YOU DID FOR THE FIFTEEN MINUTES -NOW SEVEN AFTER

11:00 -- FOR THE FIFTEEN MINUTES THAT YOU STAYED OUT THERE ALONE AFTER YOUR DISCOVERY AND BEFORE YOU SOUGHT TO BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF ANYONE?

A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. I'M SURE A LOT HAPPENED IN FIFTEEN MINUTES AND I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DESCRIBE EVERY DETAIL, IF YOU CAN. A I WALKED

SLOWLY DOWN THE PATHWAY GOING EAST TO THAT POTTING OR THAT LARGE PLANT AREA THAT IS PROBABLY 25FOOT SQUARE. Q HOW LONG DID

THAT TAKE? A THAT WAS PROBABLY SEVERAL MINUTES BACK THERE BECAUSE IT IS VERY OVERGROWN. I TRIED TO SEE FROM THE EAST PROPERTY, IF

THERE WAS A FENCE. IT WAS VERY OVERGROWN. I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS BUSHES OR IVY. I LOOKED IN THAT AREA, LOOKED FOR ANY EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING THAT

HAD BEEN DROPPED OR ANY BLOOD EVIDENCE. Q WHERE DID YOU LOOK? A ON THE GROUND, ON THE WALLS, THE PLANTS. I RETURNED BACK WESTBOUND ON

THE PATH. Q WAIT JUST A MINUTE. HOW MUCH OF YOUR FIFTEEN MINUTES WAS SPENT BACK IN THE SMALL YARD THAT YOU VIEWED AS A SITUS FOR POTTING PLANTS?

A SEVERAL MINUTES, PROBABLY MORE THAN FIVE. Q SEVERAL MOMENTS HAS NO REAL DEFINITIVE MEANING. COULD YOU PLEASE USE MINUTES OR SECONDS AND

MINUTES TO DESCRIBE EACH STEP THAT YOU TOOK. HOW MANY MINUTES WERE YOU PRESENT ON THE FAR SIDE OR EAST SIDE BETWEEN THE ALLEYWAY

BETWEEN THE FENCE AND THE BUILDING? A TALKING ABOUT THE PATHWAY, SIR? Q YOU HAVE WALKED HOW MANY FEET FROM THE GLOVE TO THE

END OF THE BUILDING? A 75. Q WELL, IF THE NORMAL WALKING RATE IS 350 FEET A MINUTE, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK YOUR RATE WAS AT

THAT TIME THAT IT TOOK YOU SEVERAL MINUTES TO GO 75 FEET? A I DIDN'T TESTIFY TO THAT, SIR. Q I THINK YOU JUST SAID IT TOOK SEVERAL MINUTES

TO GET TO THE END OF THE BUILDING A FEW MOMENTS AGO, DID YOU NOT? A NO, I DID NOT. Q TELL ME NOW HOW LONG DID IT TAKE?

A I JUST WALKED TO THE END OF THE BUILDING AND I SPENT SEVERAL MINUTES BACK IN THAT AREA. Q OKAY. A AT THE END OF THE BUNGALOWS. Q ONCE AGAIN,

WOULD YOU TRY TO HELP US AVOID THE USE OF THE WORD "SEVERAL" WHICH CAN MEAN SEVERAL THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. HOW MANY MINUTES WAS IT FROM THE

DEPARTURE OF THE GLOVE FROM THE TIME YOU LEFT THE SMALL YARD AT THE BACK OF THE BUILDING? A FIVE MINUTES. Q YOU SPENT FIVE MINUTE THERE

LOOKING AROUND WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT? A APPROXIMATELY. Q YOU LOOKED ON THE WALL, THE GROUND, YOU LOOKED FOR BLOOD AND WHAT ELSE?

A ANYTHING THAT LOOKED OUT OF PLACE OR SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T BELONG. Q WELL, IF THE GLOVE WAS DROPPED BY THE KILLER, WHY WERE YOU BACK AT THE

WALL LOOKING FOR BLOOD? A FIRST I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY THAT MIGHT HAVE COLLAPSED OR LEFT THE GLOVE, BUT I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING

OBVIOUS IN THAT AREA. Q OKAY. FIVE MINUTES IS ABOUT WHAT IT TOOK TO INVESTIGATE THAT LITTLE YARD? A APPROXIMATELY.

Q OKAY. WHAT DID YOU NEXT DO? A WALKED BACK WESTBOUND ON THE PATH. Q TO WHERE? A TO THE AIR CONDITIONER. I LOOKED AROUND THAT AREA. Q HOW LONG DID

YOU SPEND LOOKING AROUND THE AREA OF THE AIR CONDITIONER? A I WOULD SAY A COUPLE MINUTES, BUT I HAD TO BRING IT DOWN TO MINUTES, TWO OR THREE MINUTES.

Q TWO OR THREE MINUTES. TELL US WHAT YOU DID DURING THAT PERIOD TO INSPECT THE AIR CONDITIONER AND IT SURROUNDINGS? WHAT DID YOU

LOOK AT? A I LOOKED AT THE AIR CONDITIONER TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING DISTURBED, ANY BLOOD, ANYTHING LEFT THERE. I SHINED MY LIGHT

ON THE BLUE PAPER OBJECT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE. I LOOKED IN THAT AREA. I STEPPED PAST THAT AREA AND THEN WENT AROUND WHERE THE INDENTATION

WAS FARTHER WEST. Q UH-HUH. AND HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND THERE? A PROBABLY MORE TIME THAN I DID BACK IN THE AREA WITH -Q IN MINUTES?

A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q IN MINUTES, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN, SIR. PROBABLY MORE IN THAT AREA THAN IN

THE POTTING AREA, SO I WOULD PROBABLY SAY IN EXCESS OF FIVE MINUTES, MAYBE AS MANY AS SEVEN OR EIGHT MINUTES. Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU DO

BETWEEN FIVE AND SEVEN MINUTES BY THE INDENTATION AREA, AS YOU CALL IT, TO COMPLETE YOUR INVESTIGATION? A WELL, I BELIEVE THERE IS AN

ELECTRICAL BOX THERE AND THERE SEEMS TO BE -- I THINK THERE IS AN ENTRY TO THE UNDERNEATH OF THE HOUSE. I OPENED THAT. I TRIED TO LOOK IN THERE. IT WAS

VERY DIFFICULT WITH MY FLASHLIGHT. IT WASN'T VERY POWERFUL. I DECIDED NOT TO GO ANY FURTHER. I DIDN'T SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING AT THE

ENTRY. THE VOLTAGE BOX, I LOOKED IN THAT. I LOOKED INTO THAT AREA FOR ANY TYPE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AND I SAW NONE, SO I RETURNED TO THE HOUSE.

Q WHY WERE YOU LOOKING IN THE VOLTAGE BOX AT THAT POINT? A I DON'T KNOW, SIR. I WAS LOOKING FOR ANY AREA THAT COULD HAVE HOUSED SOMETHING OR

SOMEBODY. Q THE VOLTAGE BOX, YOU THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE SOMEBODY IN IT? A IT WAS A VERY LARGE VOLTAGE BOX. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS --

Q THAT IS WHY YOU OPENED IT? A. YES Q NOBODY THERE? A NO.... Q OKAY. BUT YOU DID SPEND, BY YOUR OWN ESTIMATE, FIFTEEN MINUTES

LOOKING AROUND BEFORE NOTIFYING YOUR SUPERIORS OF WHAT COULD BE A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE,

TRUE? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, IT IS APPARENT, FROM THE WAY YOU HAVE DESCRIBED YOUR ACTIONS BACK THERE, THAT YOU HAD NOT THE

SLIGHTEST CONCERN FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY; IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? A NO. Q WELL, YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO PROTECT IT, DID

YOU? A YES. Q WHAT? A I'M CAPABLE OF PROTECTING MYSELF. ONCE I WAS COMMITTED I REALLY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO GO FORWARD.

Q YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE OPTION, HAVING DISCOVERED WHAT COULD WELL HAVE BEEN THE DEPOSIT, WITTINGLY OR

OTHERWISE, OF A DANGEROUS KILLER, TO GO BACK AND GET SOME HELP? THAT OPTION WASN'T THERE? A THE OPTION WAS THERE. Q WHY DID YOU

DECIDE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT THERE WAS NO NEED TO GO GET ONE OF THE GUNS THAT WAS IN THE HOUSE TO ACCOMPANY YOU? A I DON'T THINK IT WAS A NEED. I

THINK IT WAS A JUDGMENT CALL AT THAT TIME. Q IT WAS A JUDGMENT CALL, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU WELL KNEW THERE WAS NO CAUSE FOR

CONCERN; ISN'T THAT SO? A NO, THAT IS NOT SO. Q DO YOU ORDINARILY CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS OF WHAT COULD BE A DANGEROUS

NATURE IN THIS FASHION? A SOMETIMES. Q AND YOU DO NOT PARTAKE OF THE ASSISTANCE OF YOUR MORE EXPERIENCED COLLEAGUES WHEN THEY ARE

AVAILABLE, CORRECT? A IF THEY ARE IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE, OF COURSE I WOULD. Q WELL, IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE. WOULD YOU SAY WITHIN

THIRTY SECONDS' TIME SATISFIES YOUR DEFINITION OF IMMEDIACY? A AT THAT TIME, NO. Q COULD YOU NOT HAVE GONE FROM THAT GLOVE TO THE FRONT DOOR

OR THE KITCHEN IN LESS THAN A MINUTE, VERY, VERY EASILY THAT NIGHT, IF YOU HAD CHOSEN TO DO SO? A YES, I COULD HAVE. Q OKAY. THE DECISION NOT

TO DO SO WAS YOURS, WAS IT NOT? A YES, IT WAS. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE DURING THAT 15MINUTE PERIOD THAT YOU HAVE NOT YET

DESCRIBED TO US? A NO. Q IN THE STUDIES OF BLOOD THAT YOU HAD IN THE SCHOOL WHERE YOU LEARNED ABOUT THE ROUND DROPS, DID YOU

LEARN ANY OF THE OTHER PROPERTIES OF BLOOD THAT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO A DETECTIVE, PARTICULARLY ONE IN HOMICIDE

CASES? A I DON'T BELIEVE THE SPECIFICS YOU ARE ASKING. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, SIR. Q WHAT HAPPENS

TO BLOOD WHEN IT LEAVES THE BODY AND IS ON SOME SURFACE AND IS EXPOSED TO AIR? A I WOULD ASSUME THAT IT WOULD COAGULATE. Q AND THEN?

A DRY. Q THE MOISTURE THAT IS PART OF THE BLOOD EVAPORATES IN TIME, DOES IT NOT? A YES. Q WHAT DID YOU LEARN, IF ANYTHING, ABOUT

THE RATE AT WHICH BLOOD DRIES AT SIXTY DEGREES FAHRENHEIT, AS IT WAS THAT NIGHT, BY YOUR OWN STATEMENT? A I DON'T RECALL ANYTHING IN THAT

AREA. Q DID YOU EVER LEARN ANY PARAMETERS OR FACTS ABOUT THE DRYING OF BLOOD? A NOT THAT I RECALL, NO. Q WOULD YOU NOT

AGREE, FROM YOUR OWN HUMAN EXPERIENCE, QUITE APART FROM WHAT YOU LEARNED IN DETECTIVE SCHOOL, THAT THE

LONGER THE BLOOD IS EXPOSED, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT IT WILL BE DRIED? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHEN

YOU FIRST SAW THE GLOVE, DID YOU ASSOCIATE IT WITH THE NOISE THAT KATO HAD HEARD OR SAID THAT HE HEARD AT 10:45 P.M.? A I BELIEVE WITH

THE LOCATION OF THE AIR CONDITIONER, I THOUGHT YES. Q DID YOU THINK THAT THAT NOISE MIGHT SOMEHOW HAVE BEEN TIED IN WITH THE EVENT THAT CAUSED

THAT GLOVE TO BE THERE? A I THOUGHT IT COULD HAVE BEEN, YES. Q PERHAPS SOMEONE WAS BACK THERE UNFAMILIAR WITH

THE AREA AND BUMPED INTO THE WALL AND DROPPED THE GLOVE? A THAT WOULD BE ONE CONCLUSION, YES. Q WELL, DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

A I BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE OBVIOUSLY HAD LEFT IT THERE. Q DID YOU THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE A PERSON BUMPING THE WALL WHO DROPPED THE GLOVE?

A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. SO THAT YOU THEN HAD A POSSIBLE TIME PIN OF THE EVENT ITSELF? IF THE NOISE AND THE DEPOSIT OF THE GLOVE OCCURRED

TOGETHER, THEN THIS HAD BEEN THERE SINCE QUARTER OF 11:00, HADN'T IT? A YES, SIR. Q YOU WERE THERE AT 6:15, WEREN'T YOU?

A APPROXIMATELY, YES. Q THAT IS SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS, ISN'T IT? A YES. Q THAT IS ENOUGH FOR BLOOD TO DRY, ISN'T IT?

A UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, YES, I'M SURE IT WOULD BE. Q UNLESS IT IS ENCASED IN PLASTIC OR RUBBER AND EVAPORATION IS STOPPED,

WOULDN'T YOU AGREE? A NO. Q DIDN'T IT SEEM STRANGE TO YOU THAT AFTER SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS THAT GLOVE STILL

SHOWED MOIST STICKY BLOOD, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A NO. I KNEW NOTHING AT THAT TIME WHEN IT WAS DEPOSITED OR LEFT THERE. Q YOU DIDN'T?

A NO.... Q WHEN DID YOU FIND THE GLOVE? A THE GLOVE ON ROCKINGHAM? Q YES. A AT APPROXIMATELY SOMETIME BETWEEN 6:05, 6:10, 6:15....

Q OKAY. NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT AT NO TIME THAT NIGHT DID YOU INQUIRE AS TO THE WHEREABOUTS OF MR. SIMPSON

DURING THE PRECEDING SIX OR EIGHT HOURS? A WELL, I HAD HEARD, BUT I DIDN'T DO MUCH INQUIRING, NO. Q YOU NEVER INQUIRED OF KATO? A I'M SORRY?

Q YOU NEVER INQUIRED OF KATO? A THAT MORNING OR THAT AFTERNOON? Q NO, THAT MORNING? A I NEVER TALKED TO MR. KAELIN EVER AGAIN.

Q NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE IN HIS BUNGALOW QUESTIONING HIM? YOU NEVER PUT THE QUESTION TO HIM ABOUT MR. SIMPSON?

A I'M SORRY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. MR. SIMPSON WHAT? Q DID YOU EVER ASK KATO IF HE KNEW WHERE MR. SIMPSON HAD BEEN THE PRIOR EVENING?

A I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO. Q OKAY. AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU ABOUT SEEING A LIMO, DID YOU INFER OR INQUIRE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT

THAT WAS TO TAKE MR. SIMPSON SOMEWHERE? A NO, I DIDN'T. Q DID YOU LEARN AT SOME POINT THAT MR. PHILLIPS, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, HAD

REACHED HIM BY TELEPHONE IN CHICAGO? A YES, LATER IN THE MORNING I DID. Q WHEN WAS THAT? A LATER IN THE MORNING, MAYBE AN HOUR LATER, A

HALF HOUR. Q DID YOU LEARN FROM OTHER WITNESSES IN THE COURSE OF THE DAY THAT HE HAD LEFT THE PROPERTY AT AROUND 11:00 TO GO TO THE AIRPORT?

A I DON'T BELIEVE I HEARD A TIMELINE THAT DAY ABOUT WHEN HE LEFT. DETECTIVE VANNATTER WAS AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY AND DETECTIVE LANGE

WAS ON BUNDY, SO I DIDN'T TALK TO ANYONE EXCEPT FOR PHILLIPS. HE MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED WHEN HIS FLIGHT LEFT, BUT THAT IS ABOUT IT.... Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, A

PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS CASE TOOK PLACE EARLY IN JULY, DID IT NOT? A YES, SIR. Q AND YOU TESTIFIED BOTH ON JULY 5TH AND JULY

6TH, IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS BY MS. CLARK AND DEAN UELMEN FOR THE DEFENSE? A YES. Q SEVERAL DIRECT AND SEVERAL

CROSSEXAMINATI ONS. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A YES, SIR. Q AND WERE YOU TRYING AT THAT TIME, TO THE VERY BEST YOUR ABILITY, TO BE

ACCURATE IN EACH OF YOUR VARIOUS UTTERANCES? A YES, I WAS. Q OKAY. NOW, COULD YOU TURN, PLEASE, TO PAGE 41 OF THE TRANSCRIPT THAT HAS BEEN PLACED

IN FRONT OF YOU. A (WITNESS COMPLIES.) Q I ASK YOU TO LOOK AT LINE 14. YOU WERE ASKED BY MISS CLARK THE NATURE OF A CERTAIN CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE

VANNATTER WHILE YOU WERE STILL WITHOUT THE PREMISES, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q AND YOUR ANSWER WAS: "I TOLD DETECTIVE

VANNATTER, I SAID 'WE GOT A REAL -WE GOT AN EMERGENCY, WE GOT A PROBLEM -WE GOT -- WE DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE PEOPLE INSIDE THAT ARE IN

DANGER, DYING, BLEEDING TO DEATH. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. I DON'T CARE WHOSE HOUSE THIS IS. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. WE

DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE A MURDER, SUICIDE, A KIDNAPPING, ANOTHER VICTIM,' AND PHIL AGREED AND WE TOOK OUR OPINIONS TO DETECTIVE LANGE

AND PHILLIPS AND DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITIES." DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY? A YES, SIR. Q DOES THAT ACCURATELY DESCRIBE THE SEQUENCE IN WHICH YOU

DETECTIVES BECAME CONCERNED OR AT LEAST EXPRESSED YOUR CONCERN ABOUT POSSIBLE VICTIMS INSIDE? A SOMEWHAT. Q SO THAT THIS IDEA WAS INITIATED BY

DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, WAS IT NOT? A NO. THIS WAS A CONVERSATION BETWEEN VANNATTER AND MYSELF AND THAT IS A COLLECTIVE CONVERSATION. Q THIS IS

COLLECTIVE? A YES. THOSE ARE MY FEELINGS ABSENT OF THE CONVERSATION -THE RECIPROCAL OF DETECTIVE VANNATTER. Q I SEE. WELL, NOW DO YOU SEE ANYTHING,

BEGINNING AT LINE 15, ABOUT VANNATTER SPEAKING TO YOU? A NO, SIR. Q OKAY. DO YOU SEE THAT MOST OF WHAT I

HAVE JUST RECITED IS IN QUOTES AND THUS ATTRIBUTED BY THE COURT REPORTER TO YOU TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF? DO YOU NOTICE THAT? A YES, SIR.

Q OKAY. NOW, IS IT NOT THE FACT THAT THE FIRST ONE TO SUGGEST AN EMERGENCY AND THE NEED TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW WAS YOU?

A I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS ME THAT FIRST SUGGESTED IT. VANNATTER AND I WERE BOTH TALKING ABOUT IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW IT CAME DOWN

EXACTLY TO THAT POINT. Q OKAY. AFTER AUTHORITY HAD BEEN OBTAINED FROM THE NECESSARY BRASS -- I THINK COMMANDER BUSHEY WAS IT?

A YES, SIR. Q -- TO GO IN WITHOUT A WARRANT -A COMMANDER BUSHEY HAD NO SAY IN THAT, SIR. Q OH, HE DIDN'T? A NO. Q VANNATTER DIDN'T CHECK

WITH ANYONE? A NO. Q HE MADE THE DECISION? A HE MADE THE DECISION.... Q HOW WERE YOU ELECTED TO BE THE ONE TO GO OVER THE WALL?

A PHIL MADE A STATEMENT THAT, "WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO IN. HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO IT?" AND I SAID, "WELL, I WILL GO OVER THE WALL."

Q ALL RIGHT. YOU VOLUNTEERED TO DO THAT IN RESPONSE TO HIS QUERY HOW CAN WE ACCOMPLISH IT, CORRECT? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT.

ON PAGE 46, LINE 15, WHEN YOU WERE WITH KATO KAELIN IN HIS ROOM, YOU SAY THAT YOU STAYED BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO MR. KAELIN WAS AND:

"I WASN'T SURE IF HE WAS EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. I STAYED WITH HIM AND ENGAGED HIM IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE WAS DOING THERE AND A FEW OTHER

THINGS." MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT ACCURATE? A I BELIEVE SO, YES. Q DID YOU DETERMINE THAT KATO KAELIN, FROM TALKING TO

HIM, WAS A PROPER PERSON TO BE IN THAT HOUSE AT THAT TIME? A I DON'T -- I NEVER SAW ANY IDENTIFICATION AS FAR AS AN

ADDRESS. HE MIGHT HAVE SAID HE LIVES THERE OR HE STAYS THERE. Q OKAY. WOULD YOU TURN TO PAGE 48, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. A (WITNESS

COMPLIES.) Q IT IS THE LATTER PART OF A LONG ANSWER WHICH GOES ALMOST TWO FULL PAGES. I'M INTERESTED IN ONLY A FEW LINES. I WILL READ THE

WHOLE QUESTION AND ANSWER IF YOU PREFER. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO DO THAT? A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS: "DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION

WITH HIM," MEANING KATO KAELIN, "AT THAT TIME," 47 LINE 12. "ANSWER: YES. SIMULTANEOUS WITH -- I WAS WALKING -- I WALKED TO THE BATHROOM WHICH

I COULDN'T SEE INTO FROM WHERE I WAS STANDING AT THE DOORWAY. I WALKED IN JUST TO MAKE SURE NOBODY WAS IN THERE AND I

OPENED UP THE CLOSETS TO MAKE SURE NO ONE WAS STANDING IN THE CLOSETS. I ENGAGED HIM IN CONVERSATION WHILE I WAS DOING THAT. I NOTICED A PILE OF CLOTHES

TO THE -- IF YOU WERE LYING IN THE BED, IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT SIDE, NEXT TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BED AND A PAIR OF SHOES. I ASKED HIM

IF THOSE WERE THE CLOTHES HE WORE AND HE SAID 'LAST NIGHT' AND HE SAID 'YES' AND I SAID, 'MIND IF I LOOK AT THEM?' HE

SAID, 'NO.' I PICKED UP THE SHOES. I LOOKED AT THE SOLES. I PICKED UP THE CLOTHES AND I LOOKED AT THE CLOTHES. THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO

BE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THEM. I PUT THEM BACK WHERE THEY WERE AND I WAS STILL TALKING TO MR. KAELIN. I ASKED HIM IF THERE IS ANYTHING

UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT BEFORE HE ANSWERED -BEFORE I LET HIM ANSWER, I ASKED, 'WHO DRIVES THE BRONCO?' HE SAYS, 'WELL, THAT'S O.J.'S.' I SAID, 'IS

THAT ALL? IS THAT THE ONLY PERSON THAT DRIVES IT?' AND HE GOES, 'YEAH.' I ASKED IF THERE WAS ANYTHING UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED THE PREVIOUS NIGHT. HE SAID, 'WELL,

ABOUT QUARTER TO 11:00 I HEARD SOME CRASHING ON MY WALL AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE, BUT THAT WAS ONLY NOISE, JUST ONE TIME AND MY PICTURE SHOOK,'

AND HE POINTED TO A PICTURE WHICH WAS JUST TO THE WEST OF HIS BED WHICH WOULD BE THE FAR RIGHT OF HIS ROOM LOOKING INTO HIS ROOM FROM THE

DOORWAY. THEN HE SAID, 'I WENT OUTSIDE TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND I SAW A LIMO AT THE GATE....'" "...AT THAT POINT I INTERRUPTED HIM AND I TOOK HIM

INTO THE HOUSE WHERE NOW MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER AND THE THREE DETECTIVES HAD ALREADY ENTERED THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE AND THE DOOR WAS

OPENED." DID YOU GIVE THAT ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION ON YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK ON JULY 5TH? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT.

SO THAT IN FACT WHEN YOU INTERRUPTED MR. KAELIN, AFTER ASKING HIM ABOUT UNUSUAL EVENTS, YOU PUT TWO QUESTIONS, NO. 1, WHOSE BRONCO IS IT, AND NO. 2, IS HE THE

ONLY ONE THAT DRIVES IT, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THEN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN? A WELL, THERE WAS

BLOOD ON THE VEHICLE. Q OKAY. NOW, I SUGGESTED TO YOU SOME TIME AGO THAT YOU DIRECTED DETECTIVE VANNATTER TO GO IN AND

INTERROGATE KAELIN AND YOU HAD SOME DOUBTS ABOUT THAT? A DOUBTS OF MY PRESENCE OF MIND, NO, NONE AT ALL. Q DOUBTS ABOUT WHETHER YOU

WOULD GIVE AN ORDER TO A MAN AS SUPERIOR TO YOU AS THE LEAD DETECTIVE IN THIS CASE? A I DID NOT GIVE HIM ANY ORDER. Q WELL, WHEN YOU

DESCRIBED BRINGING KAELIN INTO THE HOUSE MISS CLARK ASKED: "WHERE DID YOU PUT HIM?" AND YOU SAID: "THERE'S A BAR INSIDE THAT LOOKS

LIKE A RECREATION ROOM, A BILLIARD ROOM, AND JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, AS YOU ARE ENTERING THE REAR OF THE

RESIDENCE, THERE IS FOUR OR FIVE BARSTOOLS. I SAID, 'WHY DON'T YOU JUST SIT HERE FOR A SECOND. ONE OF THE DETECTIVES IS GOING TO TALK

FOR A FEW MINUTES. JUST SIT HERE AND RELAX.' I CONTINUED TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE AND RIGHT BY THE KITCHEN I SAW DETECTIVE

VANNATTER, AND I TOLD HIM, I SAYS, 'TALK TO THE MAN THAT WAS IN THE BUNGALOW. HE IS SEATED AT THE BAR.' AND I CONTINUED OUT THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE."

NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU HAD BEEN TALKING WITH MR. KAELIN BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO GO OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, HAD YOU NOT? A YES.

Q WHY DID YOU FIND IT NECESSARY THAT ANOTHER DETECTIVE TAKE UP THE INTERROGATION? A I DIDN'T THINK IT NECESSARY. Q WHY DID YOU

DIRECT DETECTIVE VANNATTER TO DO IT? A I WAS GOING TO INVESTIGATE WHERE THE NOISE CAME FROM. Q WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THE SUBJECT MATTER

ABOUT WHICH HE OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED, IF HE WAS GOING TO INTERROGATE A WITNESS? A NO REASON. I WANTED TO GO INVESTIGATE THE NOISE TO SEE IF WE

COULD EVEN GET TO THAT SOUTH WALL. Q WHY DID YOU NOT TELL HIM THAT YOU WERE GOING TO GO INVESTIGATE A NOISE AND HE SHOULD FINISH THE

INTERROGATION? A NO REASON. Q NO REASON? OKAY. ON THAT SAME PAGE. RIGHT AFTER YOU SAID ON LINE 18: "AND I CONTINUED OUT THE FRONT OF

THE RESIDENCE," MISS CLARK SAID: "WHY?" AND YOUR RESPONSE WAS: "WELL, I WAS -FROM THE STATEMENT HE MADE, THE CRASHING SOUND AND THE TIME

THAT HE HEARD IT, COMBINED WITH THE BLOOD IN THE BRONCO, THE WAY I WAS FEELING IS THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THERE COULD BE

ANOTHER VICTIM, A SUSPECT THAT HAD COLLAPSED OR ESCAPED VIA THAT ROUTE IN THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF THE HOUSE." DO YOU READ THE ANSWER IN FRONT

OF YOU? A I DO, SIR. Q DO YOU AGREE THAT I HAVE CITED IT CORRECTLY AS IT APPEARS IN THE TRANSCRIPT? A YES. Q HOW DID YOU KNOW AT THAT

JUNCTURE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT THERE WAS OR WOULD BE BLOOD IN THE BRONCO? A I DIDN'T. Q WHY DID YOU USE THE WORD "IN"? A I'M NOT SURE I

DID. Q IS THIS THE FIRST TIME IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT YOU USED THE WORD "IN"? A IT IS THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE READ IT, BUT I NEVER USED THE

WORD "IN" AS FAR AS SAYING THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO. Q YOU DIDN'T USE THE WORD "IN"? A I'M NOT SURE, SIR, BUT I DID NOT SEE ANY BLOOD IN THE BRONCO. Q YOU USED THE

WORD "IN" THE BRONCO AND IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL, MIGHT THAT BE, SIR, A SLIP OF THE TONGUE? A NO, IT MIGHT NOT. Q IT MIGHT NOT. UNLESS IT WAS A

SLIP OF THE TONGUE AND IF YOU IN FACT SAID IT, YOU HAVE NO EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER FOR THAT MISTAKE? IS THAT THE WAY YOU WISH TO LEAVE IT?

A NO. I WISH TO LEAVE IT TO SAY THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD THAT I OBSERVED INSIDE THE BRONCO PRIOR TO GOING INTO THE RESIDENCE THAT MORNING.

Q MY QUESTION WAS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IF YOU DID IN FACT SAY THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAD YOU DISTURBED AT THAT POINT WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO AND IT

WASN'T A SLIP OF THE TONGUE, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE USED THAT WORD? A I DIDN'T SEE ANY BLOOD IN THE BRONCO, SIR. Q WHY WOULD YOU HAVE USED THE WORD "IN,"

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, PLEASE? A I TOLD YOU I'M NOT SURE I DID. Q WELL, THERE IS A VIDEOTAPE OF YOUR TESTIMONY. HAVE YOU REVIEWED THAT

RECENTLY? A NO, NEVER HAVE. Q DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE COURT REPORTER MADE THIS MISTAKE OR YOU DID?

A YES, SIR. Q OKAY. WE WILL GET TO THAT. ON PAGE 54, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, UNDER CROSSEXAMINATI ON -- I'M SORRY -- TOWARD THE END OF YOUR

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MISS CLARK AND AFTER SAYING THAT YOU NOTICED THE GLOVE AND IDENTIFYING IT IN A PHOTO MARKED FOR THAT HEARING

AS D, I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU ASKED THESE QUESTIONS AND GAVE THESE ANSWERS: "BY MISS CLARK: WHEN YOU SAW THAT GLOVE, DID IT HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANCE TO

YOU? "ANSWER: YES. IT LOOKED VERY SIMILAR TO THE GLOVE THAT I OBSERVED ON BUNDY HOURS BEFORE. "QUESTION: AND BASED ON THAT OBSERVATION, SIR,

WHAT DID YOU DO? "ANSWER: I LOOKED AT IT A LITTLE CLOSER. I NOTED THAT IT DID NOT MATCH THE TERRAIN....AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS A LOT OF DIRT AND

LEAVES. THIS GLOVE WAS NOT DIRTY IN THE LEAST. IT LOOKED A LITTLE STICKY AND MOIST. TWO FINGERS WERE STUCK TO THE GLOVE. IT LOOKED

LIKE IT WAS STUCK THERE WITH SOME TYPE OF LIQUID. I DIDN'T TOUCH IT. I WENT PAST THE AIR CONDITIONING DUCT THAT YOU CAN SEE IN PHOTO

A AND AS SOON AS I WENT PAST THAT AIR CONDITIONING DUCT LOOKING FOR THE PERSON THAT MIGHT HAVE DROPPED THE GLOVE, THINKING THAT THEY WERE

FARTHER DOWN THE WALKWAY, I RAN INTO SPIDERWEBS IMMEDIATELY." DO YOU RECALL GIVING THAT ANSWER? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. SO I TAKE IT IT IS

TRUE THAT YOUR FIRST STEP AFTER SEEING THE GLOVE WAS TO GO LOOK FOR THE PERSON WHO DROPPED IT? A YES. Q THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE?

A YES. Q AND YOU EXPECTED THAT THE PERSON WHO DROPPED IT WOULD BE A KILLER? A I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. AS WE BROUGHT UP BEFORE, IT WAS...

Q WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO FIND IN THE NATURE OF THE PERSON WHO HAD DROPPED THE GLOVE? A I HAD NO IDEA, SIR. Q AND THAT DIDN'T

CAUSE YOU ANY APPREHENSION FOR YOUR SAFETY? A YES, IT DID. Q WELL, DID YOU TAKE ANY PRECAUTIONS? A YES. Q WHAT DID YOU DO?

A I MOVED FORWARD INSTEAD OF BACKWARD. Q YOU MOVED FORWARD IN THE DIRECTION OF DANGER, INSTEAD OF BACKWARD AWAY FROM THE DIRECTION OF

DANGER WHICH WAS A PRECAUTION AS YOU VIEWED IT? A YES. GIVING SOMEONE MY BACK WOULD BE FAR MORE HAZARDOUS

THAN FACING A THREAT STRAIGHT ON. Q I'M SORRY. I THINK YOU SAID THAT AS YOU PROCEEDED PAST THE AIR CONDITIONING DUCT, THAT IS EAST WHERE YOU

HADN'T BEEN, RIGHT? A YES. Q YOU DID THAT LOOKING FOR THE PERSON THAT MIGHT HAVE DROPPED THE GLOVE? A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q YOU SAID THAT, DIDN'T YOU? A YES. Q WELL, IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN THE DANGER WAS IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOUR BACK WAS PERFECTLY SAFE, WASN'T IT? A IF I TURNED

AROUND AND WENT BACK WEST IT WOULDN'T BE SAFE, SIR. Q OH, IT WAS SAFER IN YOUR VIEW TO FORGE ON AND MAYBE ENCOUNTER A KILLER THAN IT

WAS TO GET OUT OF THERE; IS THAT RIGHT? A THAT'S CORRECT. Q OKAY. WHEN YOU ENCOUNTERED THE

SPIDERWEBS DID IT OCCUR TO YOU THAT WHOEVER DROPPED THAT GLOVE HAD COME THE WAY YOU HAD COME AND HAD GONE BACK OUT THE SAME WAY? A IT WAS POSSIBLE,

BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE CONDITION THAT THEY WERE IN WHEN THEY LEFT THAT GLOVE. Q I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY CONDITION OF THE

PERSON. IF THERE ARE SPIDERWEBS ACROSS A PASSAGEWAY, THE ODDS ARE FAIRLY GOOD THAT NO ONE HAS RUN THROUGH THIS RECENTLY, TRUE?

A RUN, YES; CRAWLED, UNKNOWN. Q OR WALKED. DID YOU SEE ANY MARK ON THE GROUND INDICATING A HUMAN WAS CRAWLING THERE?

A I SAW NO MARKS ON THE PATH.... Q NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IN CROSSEXAMINATI ON MR. UELMEN DIRECTED SOME QUESTIONS

TO YOU ABOUT YOUR ACTIVITIES AT BUNDY AND YOU DESCRIBED, AS YOU DID FOR US -- PAGE 64 AT THE TOP -THAT: "HAVING BEEN UNABLE TO SEE

THE BODIES FROM YOUR ORIGINAL POSITION TO A SATISFACTORY DEGREE, RISKE TOOK YOU AROUND DOROTHY UP THE ALLEY AND IN THROUGH THE HOUSE SO YOU

COULD COME OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND HAVE A BETTER VANTAGE POINT AT THE TOP OF THE STEPS WITHOUT WALKING THROUGH THE BLOOD," CORRECT?

A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AT THE TOP OF PAGE 64 YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT, AREN'T YOU? A YES, I AM. Q OKAY. "QUESTION: HOW

FAR WOULD YOU SAY YOU WERE FROM WHERE THE BODIES WERE LOCATED? "ANSWER: I WAS DIRECTLY ABOVE THE FEMALE VICTIM WHICH WAS PROBABLY THREE

FEET. THE MALE VICTIM WOULD HAVE BEEN TEN FEET, TWELVE FEET. "QUESTION: ALL RIGHT. AND FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT YOU FIRST OBSERVED THE GLOVE THAT YOU

TOLD US ABOUT? "ANSWER: NOT FIRST, NO. "QUESTION: WHEN DID YOU FIRST OBSERVE IT? "ANSWER: WE HAD FLASHLIGHTS. WE WERE LOOKING AT THE FEMALE VICTIM. WE

LOOKED AT THE MALE VICTIM. I NOTICED THE GLOVE WHEN I WALKED AROUND TO THE -- AFTER I EXITED THE RESIDENCE THE FIRST TIME AND WALKED AROUND TO THE SIDE OR

THE NORTH SIDE, NORTH PERIMETER OF BUNDY OF 875 BUNDY, THERE IS AN IRON FENCE AND THROUGH THAT IRON FENCE YOU CAN GET VERY CLOSE TO THE MALE VICTIM,

AND LOOKING THERE I COULD SEE THEM AT HIS FEET." DID YOU USE THE WORD "THEM" IN YOUR ANSWER ON JULY 5TH? A YES, SIR. YES, SIR.

Q AND WAS THE LAST ITEM TO WHICH "THEM" COULD HAVE APPLIED IN YOUR NARRATIVE THE WORD "GLOVE"? A SINGULAR, YES. Q I'M SIMPLY ASKING WHETHER GLOVE, LINE 14,

WAS THE ITEM YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST PRIOR TO SAYING "I SAW THEM AT HIS FEET"? A "THEM," I WAS REFERRING TO THE KNIT CAP, THE

GLOVE. Q SHOW ME ANYWHERE ON THAT PAGE WHERE THE KNIT CAP IS MENTIONED? CAN YOU? A THAT PAGE, NO. Q ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.

DO YOU SEE ANYTHING ON THE PRIOR PAGE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, ABOUT THE KNIT CAP? A DO YOU WANT ME TO LOOK AT THAT PRIOR PAGE? Q SURE. I DON'T

KNOW HOW YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION WITHOUT LOOKING AT IT. 63. A (WITNESS COMPLIES.) I DO NOT.... Q PAGE 65, DETECTIVE

FUHRMAN, LINE 8: "DOES THAT PHOTO," REFERRING TO A PHOTO "ACCURATELY DEPICT THE GLOVE AT THE LOCATION WHERE YOU SAW IT?

"TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, YES. "QUESTION: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY PICK UP THE GLOVE TO EXAMINE IT, DID

YOU? "ANSWER: NOT AT THAT TIME, NO." DID YOU GIVE THAT ANSWER? A YES. Q AT WHAT TIME DID YOU PICK UP THE GLOVE? A I DIDN'T. I TURNED THE

GLOVE OVER WITH A PEN WHEN I RETURNED TO THE BUNDY SCENE AFTER BEING AT ROCKINGHAM. Q AND THAT IS WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU SAID, "DIDN'T PICK UP

THE GLOVE AT THAT TIME"? YOU HAD IN MIND TURNING IT OVER WITH A PEN? A I BELIEVE THAT WAS MR. UELMEN'S WORDS AND THE QUESTION. I DIDN'T

USE THE WORD "PICK UP." Q BUT THE QUESTION WAS PUT TO YOU, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. HE SAID: "AND YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY PICK

THE GLOVE UP TO EXAMINE IT, DID YOU?" AND YOUR ANSWER WAS: "NOT AT THAT TIME, NO." DO YOU SEE

ANYTHING IN THAT ANSWER THAT REFERS TO TURNING IT OVER WITH A PEN AT ANY TIME....? A NOT ON THAT PAGE, NO. Q DID YOU SEE

ANOTHER PAGE WHERE YOU INDICATED THAT THAT IS WHAT YOU MEANT BY LATER PICKING UP THE GLOVE? A NO, SIR.... Q YESTERDAY, AND POSSIBLY LAST WEEK, DETECTIVE

FUHRMAN, YOU INDICATED SOME UNCERTAINTY AS TO WHEN YOU WERE NOTIFIED THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS IN FACT THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON. DO YOU REMEMBER

THAT? A YES, SIR. Q YOU SAID YOU COULDN'T QUITE BE SURE WHEN YOU THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE FACT? A THAT THE FEMALE VICTIM

WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON? Q YES. A YES, SIR, I REMEMBER. Q AS YOU SIT THERE TODAY, WHAT IS YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION AS TO WHEN YOU

DECIDED OR YOUR SUPERIORS DECIDED THAT THIS WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON? WHAT TIME OF DAY? A I WOULD SAY ON JUNE 13TH SOMETIME BUT I

DON'T RECOLLECT WHEN. Q ONE, TWO, THREE HOURS AFTER YOU GOT THERE? A I HAVE NO IDEA, SIR. Q IS IT FAIR TO INFER THAT YOU WENT TO NOTIFY

MR. SIMPSON THAT HIS WIFE WAS DEAD A LITTLE AFTER 5:00, THAT YOU THOUGHT SHE WAS IN FACT DEAD, HIS EX-WIFE? A I DIDN'T GO THERE AT MY

DIRECTION, SO I BELIEVE IT WAS ASSUMED AND I BELIEVE THEY WERE GOING THERE TO FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT HER OR MAKE A NOTIFICATION. Q PAGE 31,

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. A (WITNESS COMPLIES.) Q QUESTION BY MISS CLARK AT LINE 4. "WERE YOU AWARE" -- LINE 5 --

"WERE YOU AWARE OF WHO ONE OF THE -- AT LEAST THE FEMALE VICTIM WAS AT THAT TIME? "ANSWER: I WAS NOTIFIED THAT -WHEN I WAS NOTIFIED AT MY

RESIDENCE AT 1:05 I WAS TOLD THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON. "DID YOU RELAY THAT INFORMATION TO DETECTIVE

VANNATTER? "ANSWER: IT WAS RELAYED, YES." NOW, AFTER YOU WERE TOLD AT 1:05 THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS DEAD, DID YOU CONTINUE TO DOUBT IT? A WE HAD NO

INDICATION ABSOLUTELY THAT THAT WAS THE FEMALE VICTIM. Q DID YOU CHALLENGE MR. PHILLIPS IN ANY WAY WHEN HE TOLD YOU SHE WAS DEAD?

A THERE WAS NO CHALLENGE INVOLVED, SIR. Q DID YOU QUESTION HIS ASSERTION AS TO HER IDENTITY? A NO. Q DID YOU EVER QUESTION HIM? A I DON'T THINK I

WOULD HAVE JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION EARLY INTO THE INVESTIGATION. Q YOU WOULDN'T HAVE JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION OF THE IDENTITY OF THE VICTIM, EVEN THOUGH A

DETECTIVE WHO WAS YOUR BOSS TOLD YOU WHAT IT WAS? A I DIDN'T QUESTION IT.... Q NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IF YOU

WOULD RETURN TO THE TRANSCRIPT AND IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT PAGE 21 OF JULY 6, WHICH IS TOWARD THE END, THE THIRD DIRECT

EXAMINATION. A WHAT PAGE, SIR? Q 21, THE SECOND DAY. A SECOND DAY. Q IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION THAT BEGAN ON 20TH LINE, 24: "ALL RIGHT. WITH RESPECT TO

FINDING THE GLOVE, AFTER YOU FOUND THE GLOVE, WHAT DID YOU DO? YOU SAW THE GLOVE ON THE WALK. THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?"

YOU ANSWERED: "I CONTINUED EASTBOUND ON THE PATH THAT WENT TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY AND I SPENT I'M NOT GOING TO SAY A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME,

I'M GOING TO SAY ABOUT 15 MINUTES LOOKING FOR A PERSON THAT COULD HAVE LEFT THAT GLOVE THERE WHICH INDICATED SOMEBODY WAS INJURED. I LOOKED

IN ALL THE PLACES I BELIEVED A HUMAN COULD SECRET HIMSELF OR COLLAPSE IN THAT AREA AND THEN I RETURNED TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE." AND I ASSUME THE

WORD "SECRET" WAS MEANT TO MEAN "SECRETE". A YES.... Q OKAY. AND THIS IS THE SEARCH THAT TOOK YOU THE 15 MINUTES? A YES, SIR.

Q OKAY. NOW, THERE WAS SOME QUESTION IN YOUR MIND EARLIER TODAY AS TO WHETHER YOU HAD TOLD DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE ABOUT

YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU TOOK THEM DOWN TO SEE THE GLOVE. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A I RECALL THE QUESTION, YES. Q AND YOU WERE UNSURE AS TO

WHETHER YOU HAD SAID ANYTHING TO THEM WHEN YOU WERE DOWN AT THE SCENE OF THE GLOVE? A YEAH. I DON'T RECALL IF I DID, NO.... Q AFTER TAKING

THE DETECTIVES TO VIEW THIS GLOVE, YOU WENT OUT TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND YOU JUST STOOD THERE, CORRECT? A FOR A FEW MOMENTS, YES.

Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WAS IT AT THAT POINT THAT DETECTIVE VANNATTER ANNOUNCED THAT THIS WAS NOW A CRIME SCENE OR WAS IT LATER IN THE DAY AS YOU'VE

TOLD US EARLIER? A I THINK THERE WAS DISCUSSION AT THAT POINT, BUT AT ABOUT THAT TIME, WE WERE SENT BACK TO BUNDY, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF.

Q WELL, DID VANNATTER SAY, "WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HANDLE THIS LIKE A CRIME SCENE," WITHIN MINUTES OF SEEING THE GLOVE THAT YOU HAD

POINTED OUT? A YES. BUT I THINK THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN "THIS IS NOW A CRIME SCENE." Q OH, I SEE. HE WAS SPECULATING ABOUT A FUTURE DECISION HE

THOUGHT HE MIGHT MAKE. WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? A YES.... Q OKAY. NOW, YOU SAID, "WHEN I FOUND THE GLOVE AND ACTUALLY REALIZED THIS

GLOVE WAS VERY CLOSE IN DESCRIPTION AND COLOR TO THE GLOVE AT THE CRIME SCENE." CAN YOU TELL US WHEN THAT POINT WAS WITHIN THIS

PERIOD? A I TESTIFIED BEFORE SEVERAL TIMES THAT WHEN I SAW THE GLOVE, IT LOOKED VERY SIMILAR TO THE GLOVE ON BUNDY.

Q THE CONNECTION WAS IMMEDIATE IN YOUR MIND? A YES. Q IS THAT CORRECT? A THAT CONNECTION THAT

IT LOOKED VERY SIMILAR, YES.... Q ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DESCRIBED THAT YOU WERE CAUGHT ON A TINY TWO-FOOT PATH ALL ALONE WITH A LITTLE TINY FLASHLIGHT AND

NO VEST BY WHICH YOU MEANT A BULLETPROOF VEST, CORRECT? A YES, SIR. Q WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THIS COURT HOW IT WAS THAT YOU WERE

CAUGHT THERE...? A WELL, I WAS COMMITTED TO THAT POINT. Q COMMITTED HOW? A BECAUSE I WAS THERE. Q YOU HAD NOBODY WITH YOU.

A I WAS COMMITTED BY MY PRESENCE. Q YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE WITH YOU, DID YOU? A NO. Q YOU WEREN'T

WEARING A VEST YOU'VE SAID. A YES. Q YOUR FLASHLIGHT WAS RATHER INADEQUATE FOR THE TASK, RIGHT? A IT WAS NOT THE BEST IT COULD BE, NO.

Q BUT YOU COMFORTED YOURSELF THAT YOU COULD PROCEED DESPITE THESE DEFICIENCIES BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU WOULD FIND A VICTIM RATHER

THAN A SUSPECT? A I WAS CONCERNED WITH THAT, YES. Q TELL THE COURT IF YOU CAN WHY THE PRESENCE OF THE OTHER MURDER GLOVE FROM BUNDY

MADE YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE ABOUT TO ENCOUNTER A VICTIM, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. A BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO BELIEVE THAT

THERE WAS A SUSPECT THERE OTHER THAN THE BLOODY GLOVE. Q YOU REALIZE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD US EARLIER -A YES. Q -- TESTIFIED UNDER OATH

EARLIER -A YES. Q -- THAT THE BLOODY GLOVE MADE YOU THINK YOU WOULD FIND A SUSPECT? A OR A VICTIM. Q BUT BY FAR, THE MORE LIKELY A

SUSPECT YOU SAID; DID YOU NOT? A YES. Q BUT HERE, YOU'VE SAID ON YOUR OATH THAT THE ONLY REASON YOU PROCEEDED UNARMED AND ALONE OR AT

LEAST WITHOUT A VEST AND ALONE WAS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T EXPECT TO FIND A SUSPECT. YOU SAID THAT, DIDN'T YOU? A YES, I DID.... Q BY MR. BAILEY: DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU DID NOT

THINK THAT YOU WOULD BE IN DANGER IF YOU PROCEEDED EASTBOUND THROUGH THE COBWEBBY PATH BECAUSE WHOEVER YOU WOULD FIND WOULD BE HURT

AND NOT DANGEROUS? A I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS NO FEELING OF DANGER, NO. Q BUT YOU DID SAY, "I MUST ADMIT, I THINK THE ONLY REASON I

PROCEEDED IS, I FELT MORE THAT I MIGHT HAVE HAD A VICTIM THAN A SUSPECT"? A MAYBE THAT WAS A HOPE. Q YOU NOW SAY THAT WAS A HOPE

AND NOT A THOUGHT? A NO. I'M SAYING MAYBE THAT WAS A HOPE, A PRESENCE OF MIND THEN AND AT THE PRELIM.... Q OKAY. WHEN YOU

DESCRIBED THIS EXPERIENCE YESTERDAY, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WERE STANDING, HAVING BEEN RELIEVED, WAITING FOR YOUR REPLACEMENT AT

THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, CORRECT? A WE'RE TALKING AT THE BUNDY LOCATION NOW? Q YES. A OH YES, SIR. THE NORTH RESIDENCE FROM BUNDY.

Q LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, YOUR ULTIMATE BOSS IN THE BUREAU OF DETECTIVES, CAME AND BROUGHT YOU UP TO THE FENCE WHERE GOLDMAN'S

BODY WAS CRUMPLED? A YES.... Q AND THERE, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, HAVING INVITED YOU TO TAKE A LOOK, YOU EXAMINED GOLDMAN'S BODY

AND FOUND A LACERATION. A THAT WAS OBSERVED BY LIEUTENANT SPANGLER. Q BUT YOU SAW IT TOO? A OH, YES, SIR. Q AND YOU

THOUGHT IT WAS A TEAR? A I USED THE WORD "LACERATION." Q AND WHEN I ASKED YOU TO DESCRIBE IT FURTHER, DID YOU NOT SAY IT WAS

TORN? A NO. I SAID LACERATION IS TEARING, IT'S NOT AN INCISION. Q OKAY. IN ANY EVENT, WHEN I ASKED YOU IF THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE

THAT YOU SAW AT THAT POINT, YOU SAID NO, DIDN'T YOU? A YES. Q OKAY. NOW, ON JULY 5TH AT PAGE 64, WHICH WE HAVE REVIEWED, WHEN

YOU DESCRIBE THE SAME INCIDENT, THERE IS NO MENTION WHATSOEVER OF YOUR HAVING BEEN RELIEVED, IS THERE? PAGE 64, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

A YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE ME A LINE, SIR. Q OKAY. STARTING AT THE TOP, JUST READING TO YOURSELF SO THAT YOU CAN

LOCATE YOURSELF AS YOU DID THIS MORNING, ON THE STEPS LOOKING DOWN AT THE FEMALE VICTIM AND NOT BEING ABLE TO CLEARLY SEE THE MALE VICTIM.

A THAT'S CORRECT. Q OKAY. YOU SAID THEN, LINE 14 -- 12: "WE HAD FLASHLIGHTS. WE WERE LOOKING AT THE FEMALE VICTIM. WE LOOKED AT THE

MALE VICTIM." YOU'RE STILL ON THE STEPS, RIGHT? A YES. Q YOU SAID: "I NOTICED THE GLOVE WHEN I WALKED AROUND TO THE -- AFTER I EXITED THE

RESIDENCE THE FIRST TIME AND WALKED AROUND TO THE SIDE ON THE NORTH SIDE, NORTH PERIMETER OF 875 BUNDY...."THERE'S AN IRON FENCE, AND THROUGH

THAT IRON FENCE, YOU CAN GET VERY CLOSE TO THE MALE VICTIM. AND LOOKING THERE, I COULD SEE THEM DOWN AT HIS FEET." WE READ THAT EARLIER; DO YOU RECALL?

A YES, SIR.... Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU GAVE THIS TESTIMONY, HAD YOU FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE LACERATION? A NO. Q HAD YOU FORGOTTEN

ABOUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? A NO. Q OKAY. ONCE MORE THEN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WE ASKED YOU TO LOOK AT PAGE 49 THIS MORNING

BECAUSE OF A WORD THAT APPEARS ON LINE 23 OF THAT PAGE RELATING TO "BLOOD IN THE BRONCO." A YES. Q AND YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S WHAT

THE PAGE SAYS? A I AGREE, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. BUT YOUR FEELING WAS THAT THE REPORTER MADE A MISTAKE? A I DIDN'T SAY THAT. I JUST DID NOT MEAN "IN THE

BRONCO." Q PARDON ME? WHAT WAS YOUR ANSWER? A COULD YOU ASK -- ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN, SIR? Q YOU SAID THE REPORTER DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE,

BUT THE WORD IS THERE SOMEHOW? A I DON'T KNOW. I JUST KNOW WHAT I MEANT WHEN I TESTIFIED. Q ALL RIGHT. SO THAT IF YOU IN FACT USED THE

WORD "IN," YOU MISSPOKE YOURSELF? A YES.... (AT 1:58 P.M., A VIDEOTAPE WAS PLAYED.) Q BY MR. BAILEY: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A ABSOLUTELY, SIR. Q OKAY. AND WHAT DO YOU NOW SAY YOU SAID? A "IN." Q "IN." A YES.... Q OKAY.

DID YOU SAY WHILE IN THE RECRUITING STATION AT ANY TIME DURING THOSE YEARS THAT WHEN YOU SEE A NIGGER DRIVING WITH A WHITE

WOMAN, YOU PULL THEM OVER? A NO. Q DO YOU RECALL ANYONE ASKING YOU IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A REASON TO PULL THEM OVER, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

A I DON'T RECALL ANYBODY EVER ASKING ME THAT QUESTION, SIR. Q DID YOU EVER MAKE A STATEMENT THAT IF YOU NEEDED A REASON, YOU WOULD FIND ONE?

A NO. Q OKAY. NEXT PARAGRAPH. DID YOU SAY AT ANY TIME IN THAT RECRUITING STATION IN THE PRESENCE OF ANY FEMALE INCLUDING KATHLEEN BELL

THAT YOU'D LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE ALL NIGGERS GATHERED TOGETHER AND KILLED? A NO.... Q OKAY. YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT

YOU DO GO INTO HENNESSEY'S TAVERN? A YES, SIR. Q YOU DO NOT HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF THE NAME ANDREA TERRY BEING

THERE...? A NO, I DO NOT. Q DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION IN '85 AND '86 IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN WITH A TALL WOMAN WHEREIN YOU SAID THAT BLACK MEN

WHO HAVE WHITE WOMEN IN THEIR COMPANY ARE VIOLATING AN ACT OF NATURE? A NO. Q AND THAT YOU WOULD ARREST THEM WHENEVER YOU SAW THAT OCCUR?

A NO. Q THAT DID NOT OCCUR AT ANY TIME? A NO. Q AND IS THAT THE KIND OF LANGUAGE OR EXPRESSION, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT

YOU WOULD REMEMBER CLEARLY IF THOSE STATEMENTS HAD BEEN MADE? A YES. Q SO AS OF THE MOMENT, YOU WOULD SAY THAT IF EITHER

KATHLEEN BELL OR ANDREA TERRY CLAIMS THAT YOU MADE THOSE STATEMENTS, THAT WOULD NECESSARILY BE FALSE? A YES.

Q AND THAT IF JOE FOSS, THE MARINE, SAYS THAT HE IN FACT INTRODUCED YOU TO KATHLEEN BELL OUTSIDE THE RECRUITING STATION AS SHE EMERGED FROM THE COFFEE SHOP

AND THAT THE TWO OF YOU TALKED ABOUT A DATE, THAT WOULD NECESSARILY BE FALSE? A THAT'S CORRECT.... COURT ADJOURNS FOR THE DAY.1070