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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA CRIMINAL JUSTICE DIVISION STATE OF FLORIDA,
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4 PLAINTIFF,
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VS.

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J

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CASE NUMBER: DIVISION CASEY MARIE ANTHONY, DEFENDANT./

48-2008-CF-15606-0 16

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NUMBER:

JURY TRIAL EXCERPT

(BENCH CONFERENCE)

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BEFORE THE HONORABLE BELVIN J. PERRY JR.

In the Orange County Courthouse Courtroom 23A Orlando, Florida 32801 June 24, 2011 Nikki Peters, RPR, CRR

A P PEA

RAN

C E S:

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JEFFREY ASHTON, ATTORNEY LINDA DRANE BURDICK, ATTORNEY FRANK GEORGE, ATTORNEY Assistant state Attorneys 415 North Orange Avenue Orlando, Florida 32801 On behalf of the State

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JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY 522 Simpson Road Kissimmee, Florida 34744 On behalf of the Defendant

o f E i cia

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C0Urt

Rep

0rters

401~

a

36-2280

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390 North Orange Avenue, Suite 2100 Orlando, Florida 32801 On behalf of the Defendant
DOROTHY

J. CHENEY MASON,

ATTORNEY

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118 SW Fort King Street Ocala, Florida 34471 On behalf of the Defendant
WILLIAM

CLAY SIMS, ATTORNEY

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522 Simpson Road Kissimmee, Florida 34744 On behalf of the Defendant
FRYER, ATTORNEY

SLABAUGH,

ATTORNEY

390 North Orange Avenue Suite 2100 Orlando, Florida 32801 lIOn behalf of the Defendant 10 12 13
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LISABETH

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PRO

C E E DIN

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(The following MR. MASON:

conference

was held at the bench.) there's several things this is I'd

Your Honor, First,

like to point out. for the record. THE COURT: MR. MASON: closing

which,

of course,

Uh-huh. Statements by counsel in opening or

are not evidence. I know That's that. why I said I'm just putting it

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THE COURT: MR. MASON: on the record. THE COURT: MR. MASON: has consistently

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Okay. The fact of the matter been, however, is, the theory

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that this child drowned

in the pool as an accident. of that and why the defendant of the family involved,

The issue is the coverup and/or the other members to report this

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if so, failed

for the infamous

31 days. to report for 31 days was in

The issue of the failure and still is, depending

on what comes up, we claim, dysfunctional family

part, .the product that included, abuse

of a totally

as Mr. Baez

said, allegations more dysfunction

of sexual than the

in the family.

There's

just that.

And the reason

I wanted

to approach

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sidebar,

this sort of stuff doesn't publicized until

need to be some rulings on

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unnecessarily

there's

it, but, as we have a side issue, we have an expert THE COURT: Just a second. Oh. Just a second.

(Brief pause.) Okay. Go ahead. We have a grief expert whose name I

MR. MASON: can't pronounce. MR. BAEZ: MR. MASON: requirement

Karioth.

Karioth. that a is that they dysfunctions that

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And it is my understanding to testify, of certain

for such a witness basis predicated so forth.

have a factual in the family, we're asking wanting

So one of the things

to talk about,

more with this witness with others, is the

questions,

and conceivably

dysfunction fighting, fighting

in the family, and fighting

such as George George

and Casey and Cindy

over money,

over his gambling,

not known to her, reSUlting those types of things and/or

in her paycheck

being garnished,

that we would ask in questions other witnesses we have,

of this witness The coworkers.

to wit:

If the Court is of the opinion of those sufficient you're issues going to the theory

that the relevancy of defense is not

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and will bar it all, then substantially the presentation of a theory of defense.

barring

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And I believe

that Mateo,

regardless about

of the specific the -- is it the

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facts of the Court, Vannier case that's

it talked in there?

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THE COURT: MR. MASON: defense

Yeah,

the Vannier

case is in there. the theory of

And they -- of course,

cases are a legion.

I found quite of defense

-- they're can be by

not with me today but the theory established inferences. We're saying, by cross-examination

and established somewhere.

There has to be something this one, there's indeed

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a reasonable

inference in

that this child did, the pool.

-- could have drowned

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We don't have

to have a -- a witness

to say

they saw her drown. unattended

How would you ever do that on an You couldn't. Vannier was a murder case.

death of a child? Well, in

THE COURT: MR. MASON: THE COURT: defense

Uh-huh. The issue in Vannier, was suicide. not let in -or the theory of

in Vannier,

There was a letter

that the Court would MR. MASON: THE COURT: relates to what?

Depression. -- of depression, Suicide. It could. Or it could. But it was a letter of depression leads to So. which directly

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MR. MASON: THE COURT: depression.

And as we all know,

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suicide.

But how do you make --

the connection

to

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Ms. Anthony

MR. MASON: THE COURT: all these things on her? problems Because

Let me suggest Does

an answer

to that. know about

-- does Ms. Anthony

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and all these if - - parents

things had some effect can be having all the know about

in the world,

but if the kids donlt them and the best

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it, then how does MR. MASON:

that affect Well,

let me answer
I

I

can.

Just one of the issues showing George were

just told you about, is the fighting

the

of the dysfunction, and Casey.

between

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And the activities

of the family she can

-- will establish of course,

all of the -- which arguments

predicate,

in front of everybody. dysfunction leads

Just as depression

leads up.

to suicide,

to lying and covering ball of wax here. We offered photograph efforts that if yes THE COURT: MR. MASON: this But--

And so welre

into the whole

and wanted

to have admitted talked

the about of the

that had been previously the pregnancy. on your ruling

to conceal

We have witnesses -- could say that,

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depending

-- they didnlt

-- nobody

knew of

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COURT REPORTER: MR. MASON: need

11m sorry? to say this child but I the defendant concealed

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I was going

to make the record

clear,

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her pregnancy. THE COURT: photograph wasnlt Okay. But you know why that at the time?

admitted I don't Okay.

MR. MASON: THE COURT: beginning

remember. If you fast-forward back to the by

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of this testimony, about

there was testimony

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Mrs. Anthony around, efforts

when she testified

the first time they talked about offered that

and was shown the photograph, to conceal her pregnancy. time.

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Nobody

photograph

at that particular

When she got back was asked of her

up here this time, not one question about concealing pregnancy.

Thus, at the time of it was not relevant Icause

admission

of the photograph,

it was not relevant on direct

to any issue that was articulated

examination. Okay. The State didn't ask her about and offered

MR. MASON:

that in their case. the photograph THE COURT: MR. MASON: THE COURT: it when --

Mr. Baez had marked

He didn't

ask about

--

do it in their case. He did not ask not one question today. about

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she came up here

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MR. MASON:
MR.

Okay. Okay. So it's a predicate relevant. issue.

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BAEZ:

THE COURT: my job

So it wasn't

And it's not

-I understand. -- to tell folks how to get things

MR. MASON: THE COURT: into evidence. MR. MASON: position

I agree. in.

And that's a different

than we were

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So, indeed, photograph concept,

with a sufficient

predicate,

then that

should be admissible

to go to this whole of the coworkers, until she's seven

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and so will the testimony was concealed

that this pregnancy months pregnant.

MS. DRANE BURDICK: MR. ASHTON:

That's

all hearsay. who'S going

You don't

have a witness

to say, we concealed Ms. Anthony you're

the pregnancy.

In fact, So what a witness what the in say say. on

has already doing

said, we didn't. is you're putting

basically

the stand and you're witness says, believe

saying, me.

don't believe

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You can't be a witness

this case.

You have to rely on what the witnesses inferences from what the witnesses that says, no, A didn't ladies and gentlemen

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and reasonable You can't happen,

take a witness

impeach

them and say,

of

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the jury, we've

just proven

that B happened.

That's

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not how it works. MR. MASON: suggest testify Cindy, would June, You're missing it entirely. if called, coworker, Let me will with She in

to you that Mr. Crittendon, that he was a daily worker,

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and never knew that Casey was pregnant. come by the office periodically

and finally, a corduroy-

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she shows up and she's wearing over, concealing her --

overcoat

THE COURT: What

But that's

why I asked

the question.

is the theory

of the defense?

It has to be If the theory of the drowning --

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related defense

to the theory of defense.

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is that she -- it was an accidental Yes, sir.

MR. MASON: THE COURT:

-- and -- and the only thing I have at least the of

any foggy idea about what it is -- because person defense

who has to rule has to know what the theory is. I just
I

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can't use my own imagination. on what you --

So the only thing I have to do is depend you MR. MASON: THE COURT: Sure. -- the only

thing that you've

laid out

so far, that I can see, is that it's an accidental drowning statement -- and it's based upon Mr. Baez's -- and that the reason she didn't opening -- didn't

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report much

it, and -- and the reason she was forced

that she has lied so of the

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is because

to lie because

dastardly brother.

deeds done

to her by her father

and her

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MR. MASON: she was forced

I don't to lie.

know that there's I'm telling

a claim that

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you that I believe and will continue of this up and

that the evidence to, if allowed, family.

has established,

will

tell the dysfunction

And that's why they have all covered everything. BURDICK: Here's But that --

have lied about MS. DRANE

MR. ASHTON: with collateral Cindy Anthony pregnant

the problem, You're

is you're wanting

dealing

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impeachment.

to impeach was a

on whether

she knew her daughter point and hid it.

at a particular matter. But what

That's

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collateral

THE COURT:

I'm saying

is I don't know tied into your theory, of the

how you get the fact theory of defense, pregnancy. I mean

-- you haven't

unless

it's another

MR. BAEZ: THE COURT: MR. BAEZ: THE COURT: I guess

The theory Well, Okay. It -- it makes it difficult, and then let me say this.

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this is what

I'll spend the night

doing, and

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the rest of the weekend, defense cases case thatts known

I

will read every to man and see.

theory of But from the and

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that I remember,

is you gotta have a theory

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it has to be related

to the theory

and the evidence of defense

still has to be admissible. basically generally a crime, does,

What theory

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it takes evidence to proving

that may not the named elements of And

be relevant to extend

relevancy what

to prove

the theory.

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thatts what Because that's

-- thatls

theory

of defense

is about. and

the defense

sometimes

has no relevancy

what that is all about. Let me make a suggestion that we get all

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MR. MASON:

and then rIll send over what you want. excited. rIve given seminars on theory

Donlt

of defense

over the United you about

states

and I have some cases to tell One of the earliest is

that are of interest. States appeals

the case of United 1972 [sic] federal THE COURT: MR. MASON:

versus Alfonso-Perez. court case --

Right. -- that says it was error of defense for the to

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court not to grant a theory the jury which was of the defendant, witness federal is a liar.

instruction

is the theory of the defense Mr. Perez, that the government by the agent

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And that was approved a whole

courts and that started

-- opening

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things

for years and years

and years. in Florida that says to

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THE COURT: that the standard advise

There are cases

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jury instructions

are not adequate

the jury of the theory Sure,

of defense. State.

MR. MASON: THE COURT: instructions --

Palm versus entire

So your

theory of defense

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MR. BAEZ: the pregnancy? MR. ASHTON: proffer going

Can I give you an additional

aspect

of

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Judge,

may I suggest

that we have a are actually are in

so that we know what Because

the witnesses

to say?

all of these discussions is not going

hypothetical for appellate

and the record purposes.

to be pristine

THE COURT:

I've listened

and at this point you there's unless a you've

have not shown me how, at this point, relationship changed it -No, Judge. that to your theory

of defense,

MR. BAEZ: THE COURT: the marital theory theory

-- that -- that they've George and Cindy

had

problems

between

-- the is the

of defense of defense?

that

-- let me back up.

What

MR. BAEZ: an accident

The theory

of defense

is that this was

that was covered

up and that the behavior

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of the defendant reacted family family

is consistent

with, of course, for various

she

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that way, acted dysfunction,

that way,

reasons,

her abuse/

and she -- this is a things up, like the

that's used to covering And/ in addition

pregnancy.

to that, the defendant um/ you have. the wholesale

did -- it was an issue where/ MS. DRANE BURDICK: admission

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We can't allow evidence

of bad character

on -finished.

THE COURT: You'll

Just a second.

He hadn't

get an opportunity. All that was done during the State's the

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MR. BAEZ: defense's talking

-- I mean/

first two weeks we're a guilt --,

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about her behavior/

and why would person

you know, why would an innocent manner, this is inconsistent with guilt.

act in that and only --

with

innocence

consistent

That's

allegedly

what their has been,

what their consciousness THE COURT: up her pregnancy, that they covered thought Well,

of guilt

argument

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on your argument been absolutely up. What

about covering no testimony

there's anything

they said was they

she was just puffy

because

her mom suffered abdomen -- I

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from the same malady during

of having

an extended and that

the time of her period

-- I will

will go back and -- and read the testimony, has absolutely been -- been no evidence

but there

that anybody

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was trying coverup, pregnant. cover

to cover up anything.

If th~ kne.

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I don't know when But momma

the defendant didn't

certainly

say they tri~

it up. And the I -- I can't recall, but I don't even

think the daddy knew. MR. ASHTON: think, in June, He testified that he was informed, I

that mom and Casey sat him down and the pregnancy. But there was no record evidence -it

told him about THE COURT: Ms. Anthony

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didn't

say that they were trying

to hide

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from everybody she testified

that she was pregnant. to. it was put on.

That wasn't

what

But, you know,

And.

but.

You still gotta make the leap and show me how does marital figure problems between your George theory and Cindy Anthony of defense, that this of . --

into, quote,

was an accidental MR. BAEZ: not wanting

drowning

and that because

It goes to his motive

for wanting

it to get out that she died on his watch,

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that he was home. THE COURT: MR. BAEZ: THE COURT: MR. BAEZ: His motive? His motive His motive Uh-huh. to lie. to lie.

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MR. ASHTON: evidence that --

But you haven't

-- there's

no

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MR. BAEZ: MR. ASHTON:

To cover There's

it up. no evidence that he lied. you do a motive.

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First you got to show he lied before MR. BAEZ: THE COURT: MR. ASHTON: THE COURT: sustained. presence you want because No, you don't. Okay. Anything

else?

No, sir. At this point the objection will be of the If

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But if you can connect I will permit

it up outside you to do it.

of the jury, to proffer

the testimony

for the record,

I think we'll be here next week on this. Uh-huh. to proffer it,

MS. DRANE BURDICK: THE COURT:

So if I -- if you want the testimony,

I'll let you proffer purposes evidence defense. MR. MASON: proffer, we might

but at -- for this

of the record. doesn't

But at this time,

even remotely

deal with your theory of

May I suggest

if you're

going

to do a

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as well do it at one time with these that's going to be going to

other witnesses THE COURT: say.

that are here I don't

know what they're

I'm talking

about Ms. Anthony. And you're going to open the

MS. DRANE BURDICK:

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door up to her criminal activity. MR. MASON: rim sorry? You're going to open the door

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MS. DRANE BURDICK:

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up to her criminal activity, to Ms. Anthonyls criminal activity.
MR. MASON:

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What, by talking about George? Talking about family

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MS. DRANE BURDICK:

dysfunction.
MR. MASON:

Uh-huh. You think youlre going to be able to That's

MR. ASHTON:

keep out all the stealing if you start that? what she's saying.
MS. DRANE BURDICK:

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Therels hundreds of checks Hundreds.

that she wrote on her motherls account.
MR. BAEZ:

It's her mother. All right.

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MS. DRANE BURDICK: MR. ASHTON:

The Court has ruled, so . Okay.

THE COURT:

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(This concludes the requested excerpt.)

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C E R T I F I CAT

E

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STATE OF FLORIDA: COUNTY OF ORANGE: I, Nikki Peters, RPR[ CRR[ Official Court Reporter of the Ninth Judicial Circuit of Florida! do hereby certify! pursuant to Florida Rules of Judicial Administration 2.535(h) (3), that I was authorized to and did report in stenographic shorthand the foregoing proceedings! and that thereafter my stenographic shorthand notes were transcribed to typewritten form by the process of computer-aided transcription[ and that the foregoing pages contain a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes taken therein.

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WITNESS my hand this

day of

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2011, in the City of Orlando, County of Orange, State of Florida.

23 24 25 Nikki Peters, RPR, CRR