360 BC PHAEDO by Plato translated by Benjamin Jowett !HE D"A#O$%E

PHAEDO& w'o is t'e narrator o( t'e dialo)*e to ECHECRA!ES o( P'li*s SOCRA!ES APO##ODOR%S S"++"AS CEBES CR"!O A!!ENDAN! O !HE PR"SON PHAEDO SCENE, !'e Prison o( So-rates P#ACE O !HE NARRA!"ON, P'li*s E-'e-rates. /ere yo* yo*rsel(& P'aedo& in t'e 0rison wit' So-rates on t'e day w'en 'e dran1 t'e 0oison2 P'aedo. 3es& E-'e-rates& " was. E-'. " wis' t'at yo* wo*ld tell me abo*t 'is deat'. /'at did 'e say in 'is last 'o*rs2 /e were in(ormed t'at 'e died by ta1in) 0oison& b*t no one 1new anyt'in) more4 (or no P'liasian e5er )oes to At'ens now& and a lon) time 'as ela0sed sin-e any At'enian (o*nd 'is way to P'li*s& and t'ere(ore we 'ad no -lear a--o*nt. P'aed. Did yo* not 'ear o( t'e 0ro-eedin)s at t'e trial2 E-'. 3es4 someone told *s abo*t t'e trial& and we -o*ld not *nderstand w'y& 'a5in) been -ondemned& 'e was 0*t to deat'& as a00eared& not at t'e time& b*t lon) a(terwards. /'at was t'e reason o( t'is2 P'aed. An a--ident& E-'e-rates. !'e reason was t'at t'e stern o( t'e s'i0 w'i-' t'e At'enians send to Delos 'a00ened to 'a5e been -rowned on t'e day be(ore 'e was tried. E-'. /'at is t'is s'i02 P'aed. !'is is t'e s'i0 in w'i-'& as t'e At'enians say& !'ese*s went to Crete w'en 'e too1 wit' 'im t'e (o*rteen yo*t's& and was t'e sa5io*r o( t'em and o( 'imsel(. And t'ey were said to 'a5e 5owed to A0ollo at t'e time& t'at i( t'ey were sa5ed t'ey wo*ld ma1e an ann*al 0il)rima)e to Delos. Now t'is -*stom still -ontin*es& and t'e w'ole 0eriod o( t'e 5oya)e to and (rom Delos& be)innin) w'en t'e 0riest o( A0ollo -rowns t'e stern o( t'e s'i0& is a 'oly season& d*rin) w'i-' t'e -ity is not allowed to be 0oll*ted by 0*blie6e-*tions4 and o(ten& w'en t'e 5essel is detained by ad5erse winds& t'ere may be a 5ery -onsiderable delay. As " was sayin)& t'e s'i0 was -rowned on t'e day be(ore t'e trial& and t'is was t'e reason w'y So-rates lay in 0rison and was not 0*t to deat' *ntil lon) a(ter 'e was -ondemned. E-'. /'at was t'e manner o( 'is deat'& P'aedo2 /'at was said or done2 And w'i-' o( 'is (riends 'ad 'e wit' 'im2 Or were t'ey not allowed by t'e a*t'orities to be 0resent2 And did 'e die alone2 P'aed. No4 t'ere were se5eral o( 'is (riends wit' 'im. E-'. "( yo* 'a5e not'in) to do& " wis' t'at yo* wo*ld tell me w'at 0assed& as e6a-tly as yo* -an. P'aed. " 'a5e not'in) to do& and will try to )rati(y yo*r wis'. or to me& too& t'ere is no )reater 0leas*re t'an to 'a5e So-rates bro*)'t to my re-olle-tion& w'et'er " s0ea1 mysel( or 'ear anot'er s0ea1 o( 'im. E-'. 3o* will 'a5e listeners w'o are o( t'e same mind wit' yo*& and " 'o0e t'at yo* will be as e6a-t as yo* -an. P'aed. " remember t'e stran)e (eelin) w'i-' -ame o5er me at bein) wit' 'im. or " -o*ld 'ardly belie5e t'at " was 0resent at t'e deat' o( a (riend& and t'ere(ore " did not 0ity 'im& E-'e-rates4 'is mien and 'is lan)*a)e were so noble and (earless in t'e 'o*r o( deat' t'at to me 'e a00eared blessed. " t'o*)'t t'at in )oin) to t'e ot'er

world 'e -o*ld not be wit'o*t a di5ine -all& and t'at 'e wo*ld be 'a00y& i( any man e5er was& w'en 'e arri5ed t'ere& and t'ere(ore " did not 0ity 'im as mi)'t seem nat*ral at s*-' a time. B*t neit'er -o*ld " (eel t'e 0leas*re w'i-' " *s*ally (elt in 0'iloso0'i-al dis-o*rse 7(or 0'iloso0'y was t'e t'eme o( w'i-' we s0o1e8. " was 0leased& and " was also 0ained& be-a*se " 1new t'at 'e was soon to die& and t'is stran)e mi6t*re o( (eelin) was s'ared by *s all4 we were la*)'in) and wee0in) by t*rns& es0e-ially t'e e6-itable A0ollodor*s9yo* 1now t'e sort o( man2 E-'. 3es. P'aed. He was :*ite o5er-ome4 and " mysel( and all o( *s were )reatly mo5ed. E-'. /'o were 0resent2 P'aed. O( nati5e At'enians t'ere were& besides A0ollodor*s& Critob*l*s and 'is (at'er Crito& Hermo)enes& E0i)enes& Aes-'ines& and Antist'enes4 li1ewise Ctesi00*s o( t'e deme o( Paeania& +ene6en*s& and some ot'ers4 b*t Plato& i( " am not mista1en& was ill. E-'. /ere t'ere any stran)ers2 P'aed. 3es& t'ere were4 Simmias t'e !'eban& and Cebes& and P'aedondes4 E*-lid and !er0ison& w'o -ame (rom +e)ara. E-'. And was Aristi00*s t'ere& and Cleombrot*s2 P'aed. No& t'ey were said to be in Ae)ina. E-'. Anyone else2 P'aed. " t'in1 t'at t'ese were abo*t all. E-'. And w'at was t'e dis-o*rse o( w'i-' yo* s0o1e2 P'aed. " will be)in at t'e be)innin)& and endea5or to re0eat t'e entire -on5ersation. 3o* m*st *nderstand t'at we 'ad been 0re5io*sly in t'e 'abit o( assemblin) early in t'e mornin) at t'e -o*rt in w'i-' t'e trial was 'eld& and w'i-' is not (ar (rom t'e 0rison. !'ere we remained tal1in) wit' one anot'er *ntil t'e o0enin) o( t'e 0rison doors 7(or t'ey were not o0ened 5ery early8& and t'en went in and )enerally 0assed t'e day wit' So-rates. On t'e last mornin) t'e meetin) was earlier t'an *s*al4 t'is was owin) to o*r 'a5in) 'eard on t'e 0re5io*s e5enin) t'at t'e sa-red s'i0 'ad arri5ed (rom Delos& and t'ere(ore we a)reed to meet 5ery early at t'e a--*stomed 0la-e. On o*r )oin) to t'e 0rison& t'e jailer w'o answered t'e door& instead o( admittin) *s& -ame o*t and bade *s wait and 'e wo*ld -all *s. ; or t'e Ele5en&; 'e said& ;are now wit' So-rates4 t'ey are ta1in) o(( 'is -'ains& and )i5in) orders t'at 'e is to die to9day.; He soon ret*rned and said t'at we mi)'t -ome in. On enterin) we (o*nd So-rates j*st released (rom -'ains& and <ant'i00e& w'om yo* 1now& sittin) by 'im& and 'oldin) 'is -'ild in 'er arms. /'en s'e saw *s s'e *ttered a -ry and said& as women will, ;O So-rates& t'is is t'e last time t'at eit'er yo* will -on5erse wit' yo*r (riends& or t'ey wit' yo*.; So-rates t*rned to Crito and said, ;Crito& let someone ta1e 'er 'ome.; Some o( Crito=s 0eo0le a--ordin)ly led 'er away& -ryin) o*t and beatin) 'ersel(. And w'en s'e was )one& So-rates& sittin) *0 on t'e -o*-'& be)an to bend and r*b 'is le)& sayin)& as 'e r*bbed, ;How sin)*lar is t'e t'in) -alled 0leas*re& and 'ow -*rio*sly related to 0ain& w'i-' mi)'t be t'o*)'t to be t'e o00osite o( it4 (or t'ey ne5er -ome to a man to)et'er& and yet 'e w'o 0*rs*es eit'er o( t'em is )enerally -om0elled to ta1e t'e ot'er. !'ey are two& and yet t'ey )row to)et'er o*t o( one 'ead or stem4 and " -annot 'el0 t'in1in) t'at i( Aeso0 'ad noti-ed t'em& 'e wo*ld 'a5e made a (able abo*t $od tryin) to re-on-ile t'eir stri(e& and w'en 'e -o*ld not& 'e (astened t'eir 'eads to)et'er4 and t'is is t'e reason w'y w'en one -omes t'e ot'er (ollows& as " (ind in my own -ase 0leas*re -omes (ollowin) a(ter t'e 0ain in my le)& w'i-' was -a*sed by t'e -'ain.; %0on t'is Cebes said, " am 5ery )lad indeed& So-rates& t'at yo* mentioned t'e name o( Aeso0. or t'at reminds me o( a :*estion w'i-' 'as been as1ed by ot'ers& and was as1ed o( me only t'e day be(ore yesterday by E5en*s t'e 0oet& and as 'e will be s*re to as1 a)ain& yo* may as well tell me w'at " s'o*ld say to 'im& i( yo* wo*ld li1e 'im to 'a5e an answer. He wanted to 1now w'y yo* w'o ne5er be(ore wrote a

line o( 0oetry& now t'at yo* are in 0rison are 0*ttin) Aeso0 into 5erse& and also -om0osin) t'at 'ymn in 'onor o( A0ollo. !ell 'im& Cebes& 'e re0lied& t'at " 'ad no idea o( ri5allin) 'im or 'is 0oems4 w'i-' is t'e tr*t'& (or " 1new t'at " -o*ld not do t'at. B*t " wanted to see w'et'er " -o*ld 0*r)e away a s-r*0le w'i-' " (elt abo*t -ertain dreams. "n t'e -o*rse o( my li(e " 'a5e o(ten 'ad intimations in dreams ;t'at " s'o*ld ma1e m*si-.; !'e same dream -ame to me sometimes in one (orm& and sometimes in anot'er& b*t always sayin) t'e same or nearly t'e same words, +a1e and -*lti5ate m*si-& said t'e dream. And 'it'erto " 'ad ima)ined t'at t'is was only intended to e6'ort and en-o*ra)e me in t'e st*dy o( 0'iloso0'y& w'i-' 'as always been t'e 0*rs*it o( my li(e& and is t'e noblest and best o( m*si-. !'e dream was biddin) me to do w'at " was already doin)& in t'e same way t'at t'e -om0etitor in a ra-e is bidden by t'e s0e-tators to r*n w'en 'e is already r*nnin). B*t " was not -ertain o( t'is& as t'e dream mi)'t 'a5e meant m*si- in t'e 0o0*lar sense o( t'e word& and bein) *nder senten-e o( deat'& and t'e (esti5al )i5in) me a res0ite& " t'o*)'t t'at " s'o*ld be sa(er i( " satis(ied t'e s-r*0le& and& in obedien-e to t'e dream& -om0osed a (ew 5erses be(ore " de0arted. And (irst " made a 'ymn in 'onor o( t'e )od o( t'e (esti5al& and t'en -onsiderin) t'at a 0oet& i( 'e is really to be a 0oet or ma1er& s'o*ld not only 0*t words to)et'er b*t ma1e stories& and as " 'a5e no in5ention& " too1 some (ables o( eso0& w'i-' " 'ad ready at 'and and 1new& and t*rned t'em into 5erse. !ell E5en*s t'is& and bid 'im be o( )ood -'eer4 t'at " wo*ld 'a5e 'im -ome a(ter me i( 'e be a wise man& and not tarry4 and t'at to9day " am li1ely to be )oin)& (or t'e At'enians say t'at " m*st. Simmias said, /'at a messa)e (or s*-' a man> 'a5in) been a (re:*ent -om0anion o( 'is& " s'o*ld say t'at& as (ar as " 1now 'im& 'e will ne5er ta1e yo*r ad5i-e *nless 'e is obli)ed. /'y& said So-rates&9is not E5en*s a 0'iloso0'er2 " t'in1 t'at 'e is& said Simmias. !'en 'e& or any man w'o 'as t'e s0irit o( 0'iloso0'y& will be willin) to die& t'o*)' 'e will not ta1e 'is own li(e& (or t'at is 'eld not to be ri)'t. Here 'e -'an)ed 'is 0osition& and 0*t 'is le)s o(( t'e -o*-' on to t'e )ro*nd& and d*rin) t'e rest o( t'e -on5ersation 'e remained sittin). /'y do yo* say& in:*ired Cebes& t'at a man o*)'t not to ta1e 'is own li(e& b*t t'at t'e 0'iloso0'er will be ready to (ollow t'e dyin)2 So-rates re0lied, And 'a5e yo*& Cebes and Simmias& w'o are a-:*ainted wit' P'ilola*s& ne5er 'eard 'im s0ea1 o( t'is2 " ne5er *nderstood 'im& So-rates. +y words& too& are only an e-'o4 b*t " am 5ery willin) to say w'at " 'a5e 'eard, and indeed& as " am )oin) to anot'er 0la-e& " o*)'t to be t'in1in) and tal1in) o( t'e nat*re o( t'e 0il)rima)e w'i-' " am abo*t to ma1e. /'at -an " do better in t'e inter5al between t'is and t'e settin) o( t'e s*n2 !'en tell me& So-rates& w'y is s*i-ide 'eld not to be ri)'t2 as " 'a5e -ertainly 'eard P'ilola*s a((irm w'en 'e was stayin) wit' *s at !'ebes, and t'ere are ot'ers w'o say t'e same& alt'o*)' none o( t'em 'as e5er made me *nderstand 'im. B*t do yo*r best& re0lied So-rates& and t'e day may -ome w'en yo* will *nderstand. " s*00ose t'at yo* wonder w'y& as most t'in)s w'i-' are e5il may be a--identally )ood& t'is is to be t'e only e6-e0tion 7(or may not deat'& too& be better t'an li(e in some -ases28& and w'y& w'en a man is better dead& 'e is not 0ermitted to be 'is own bene(a-tor& b*t m*st wait (or t'e 'and o( anot'er. By J*0iter> yes& indeed& said Cebes& la*)'in)& and s0ea1in) in 'is nati5e Dori-. " admit t'e a00earan-e o( in-onsisten-y& re0lied So-rates& b*t t'ere may not be any real in-onsisten-y a(ter all in t'is. !'ere is a do-trine *ttered in se-ret t'at man is a 0risoner w'o 'as no ri)'t to o0en t'e door o( 'is 0rison and r*n away4 t'is is a )reat mystery

w'i-' " do not :*ite *nderstand. 3et "& too& belie5e t'at t'e )ods are o*r )*ardians& and t'at we are a 0ossession o( t'eirs. Do yo* not a)ree2 3es& " a)ree to t'at& said Cebes. And i( one o( yo*r own 0ossessions& an o6 or an ass& (or e6am0le too1 t'e liberty o( 0*ttin) 'imsel( o*t o( t'e way w'en yo* 'ad )i5en no intimation o( yo*r wis' t'at 'e s'o*ld die& wo*ld yo* not be an)ry wit' 'im& and wo*ld yo* not 0*nis' 'im i( yo* -o*ld2 Certainly& re0lied Cebes. !'en t'ere may be reason in sayin) t'at a man s'o*ld wait& and not ta1e 'is own li(e *ntil $od s*mmons 'im& as 'e is now s*mmonin) me. 3es& So-rates& said Cebes& t'ere is s*rely reason in t'at. And yet 'ow -an yo* re-on-ile t'is seemin)ly tr*e belie( t'at $od is o*r )*ardian and we 'is 0ossessions& wit' t'at willin)ness to die w'i-' we were attrib*tin) to t'e 0'iloso0'er2 !'at t'e wisest o( men s'o*ld be willin) to lea5e t'is ser5i-e in w'i-' t'ey are r*led by t'e )ods w'o are t'e best o( r*lers is not reasonable& (or s*rely no wise man t'in1s t'at w'en set at liberty 'e -an ta1e better -are o( 'imsel( t'an t'e )ods ta1e o( 'im. A (ool may 0er'a0s t'in1 t'is9'e may ar)*e t'at 'e 'ad better r*n away (rom 'is master& not -onsiderin) t'at 'is d*ty is to remain to t'e end& and not to r*n away (rom t'e )ood& and t'at t'ere is no sense in 'is r*nnin) away. B*t t'e wise man will want to be e5er wit' 'im w'o is better t'an 'imsel(. Now t'is& So-rates& is t'e re5erse o( w'at was j*st now said4 (or *0on t'is 5iew t'e wise man s'o*ld sorrow and t'e (ool rejoi-e at 0assin) o*t o( li(e. !'e earnestness o( Cebes seemed to 0lease So-rates. Here& said 'e& t*rnin) to *s& is a man w'o is always in:*irin)& and is not to be -on5in-ed all in a moment& nor by e5ery ar)*ment. And in t'is -ase& added Simmias& 'is obje-tion does a00ear to me to 'a5e some (or-e. or w'at -an be t'e meanin) o( a tr*ly wise man wantin) to (ly away and li)'tly lea5e a master w'o is better t'an 'imsel(2 And " rat'er ima)ine t'at Cebes is re(errin) to yo*4 'e t'in1s t'at yo* are too ready to lea5e *s& and too ready to lea5e t'e )ods w'o& as yo* a-1nowled)e& are o*r )ood r*lers. 3es& re0lied So-rates4 t'ere is reason in t'at. And t'is indi-tment yo* t'in1 t'at " o*)'t to answer as i( " were in -o*rt2 !'at is w'at we s'o*ld li1e& said Simmias. !'en " m*st try to ma1e a better im0ression *0on yo* t'an " did w'en de(endin) mysel( be(ore t'e j*d)es. or " am :*ite ready to a-1nowled)e& Simmias and Cebes& t'at " o*)'t to be )rie5ed at deat'& i( " were not 0ers*aded t'at " am )oin) to ot'er )ods w'o are wise and )ood 7o( t'is " am as -ertain as " -an be o( anyt'in) o( t'e sort8 and to men de0arted 7t'o*)' " am not so -ertain o( t'is8& w'o are better t'an t'ose w'om " lea5e be'ind4 and t'ere(ore " do not )rie5e as " mi)'t 'a5e done& (or " 'a5e )ood 'o0e t'at t'ere is yet somet'in) remainin) (or t'e dead& and& as 'as been said o( old& some (ar better t'in) (or t'e )ood t'an (or t'e e5il. B*t do yo* mean to ta1e away yo*r t'o*)'ts wit' yo*& So-rates2 said Simmias. /ill yo* not -omm*ni-ate t'em to *s29t'e bene(it is one in w'i-' we too may 'o0e to s'are. +oreo5er& i( yo* s*--eed in -on5in-in) *s& t'at will be an answer to t'e -'ar)e a)ainst yo*rsel(. " will do my best& re0lied So-rates. B*t yo* m*st (irst let me 'ear w'at Crito wants4 'e was )oin) to say somet'in) to me. Only t'is& So-rates& re0lied Crito, t'e attendant w'o is to )i5e yo* t'e 0oison 'as been tellin) me t'at yo* are not to tal1 m*-'& and 'e wants me to let yo* 1now t'is4 (or t'at by tal1in) 'eat is in-reased& and t'is inter(eres wit' t'e a-tion o( t'e 0oison4 t'ose w'o e6-ite t'emsel5es are sometimes obli)ed to drin1 t'e 0oison two or t'ree times. !'en& said So-rates& let 'im mind 'is b*siness and be 0re0ared to )i5e t'e 0oison two or t'ree times& i( ne-essary4 t'at is all. " was almost -ertain t'at yo* wo*ld say t'at& re0lied Crito4 b*t " was obli)ed to satis(y 'im.

Ne5er mind 'im& 'e said. And now " will ma1e answer to yo*& O my j*d)es& and s'ow t'at 'e w'o 'as li5ed as a tr*e 0'iloso0'er 'as reason to be o( )ood -'eer w'en 'e is abo*t to die& and t'at a(ter deat' 'e may 'o0e to re-ei5e t'e )reatest )ood in t'e ot'er world. And 'ow t'is may be& Simmias and Cebes& " will endea5or to e60lain. or " deem t'at t'e tr*e dis-i0le o( 0'iloso0'y is li1ely to be mis*nderstood by ot'er men4 t'ey do not 0er-ei5e t'at 'e is e5er 0*rs*in) deat' and dyin)4 and i( t'is is tr*e& w'y& 'a5in) 'ad t'e desire o( deat' all 'is li(e lon)& s'o*ld 'e re0ine at t'e arri5al o( t'at w'i-' 'e 'as been always 0*rs*in) and desirin)2 Simmias la*)'ed and said, !'o*)' not in a la*)'in) '*mor& " swear t'at " -annot 'el0 la*)'in) w'en " t'in1 w'at t'e wi-1ed world will say w'en t'ey 'ear t'is. !'ey will say t'at t'is is 5ery tr*e& and o*r 0eo0le at 'ome will a)ree wit' t'em in sayin) t'at t'e li(e w'i-' 0'iloso0'ers desire is tr*ly deat'& and t'at t'ey 'a5e (o*nd t'em o*t to be deser5in) o( t'e deat' w'i-' t'ey desire. And t'ey are ri)'t& Simmias& in sayin) t'is& wit' t'e e6-e0tion o( t'e words ;!'ey 'a5e (o*nd t'em o*t;4 (or t'ey 'a5e not (o*nd o*t w'at is t'e nat*re o( t'is deat' w'i-' t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'er desires& or 'ow 'e deser5es or desires deat'. B*t let *s lea5e t'em and 'a5e a word wit' o*rsel5es, Do we belie5e t'at t'ere is s*-' a t'in) as deat'2 !o be s*re& re0lied Simmias. And is t'is anyt'in) b*t t'e se0aration o( so*l and body2 And bein) dead is t'e attainment o( t'is se0aration4 w'en t'e so*l e6ists in 'ersel(& and is 0arted (rom t'e body and t'e body is 0arted (rom t'e so*l9t'at is deat'2 E6a-tly, t'at and not'in) else& 'e re0lied. And w'at do yo* say o( anot'er :*estion& my (riend& abo*t w'i-' " s'o*ld li1e to 'a5e yo*r o0inion& and t'e answer to w'i-' will 0robably t'row li)'t on o*r 0resent in:*iry, Do yo* t'in1 t'at t'e 0'iloso0'er o*)'t to -are abo*t t'e 0leas*res9i( t'ey are to be -alled 0leas*res9o( eatin) and drin1in)2 Certainly not& answered Simmias. And w'at do yo* say o( t'e 0leas*res o( lo5e9s'o*ld 'e -are abo*t t'em2 By no means. And will 'e t'in1 m*-' o( t'e ot'er ways o( ind*l)in) t'e body9(or e6am0le& t'e a-:*isition o( -ostly raiment& or sandals& or ot'er adornments o( t'e body2 "nstead o( -arin) abo*t t'em& does 'e not rat'er des0ise anyt'in) more t'an nat*re needs2 /'at do yo* say2 " s'o*ld say t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'er wo*ld des0ise t'em. /o*ld yo* not say t'at 'e is entirely -on-erned wit' t'e so*l and not wit' t'e body2 He wo*ld li1e& as (ar as 'e -an& to be :*it o( t'e body and t*rn to t'e so*l. !'at is tr*e. "n matters o( t'is sort 0'iloso0'ers& abo5e all ot'er men& may be obser5ed in e5ery sort o( way to disse5er t'e so*l (rom t'e body. !'at is tr*e. /'ereas& Simmias& t'e rest o( t'e world are o( o0inion t'at a li(e w'i-' 'as no bodily 0leas*res and no 0art in t'em is not wort' 'a5in)4 b*t t'at 'e w'o t'in1s not'in) o( bodily 0leas*res is almost as t'o*)' 'e were dead. !'at is :*ite tr*e. /'at a)ain s'all we say o( t'e a-t*al a-:*irement o( 1nowled)e29is t'e body& i( in5ited to s'are in t'e in:*iry& a 'inderer or a 'el0er2 " mean to say& 'a5e si)'t and 'earin) any tr*t' in t'em2 Are t'ey not& as t'e 0oets are always tellin) *s& ina--*rate witnesses2 and yet& i( e5en t'ey are ina--*rate and indistin-t& w'at is to be said o( t'e ot'er senses29(or yo* will allow t'at t'ey are t'e best o( t'em2 Certainly& 'e re0lied. !'en w'en does t'e so*l attain tr*t'29(or in attem0tin) to -onsider anyt'in) in -om0any wit' t'e body s'e is ob5io*sly de-ei5ed.

3es& t'at is tr*e. !'en m*st not e6isten-e be re5ealed to 'er in t'o*)'t& i( at all2 3es. And t'o*)'t is best w'en t'e mind is )at'ered into 'ersel( and none o( t'ese t'in)s tro*ble 'er9neit'er so*nds nor si)'ts nor 0ain nor any 0leas*re9w'en s'e 'as as little as 0ossible to do wit' t'e body& and 'as no bodily sense or (eelin)& b*t is as0irin) a(ter bein)2 !'at is tr*e. And in t'is t'e 0'iloso0'er dis'onors t'e body4 'is so*l r*ns away (rom t'e body and desires to be alone and by 'ersel(2 !'at is tr*e. /ell& b*t t'ere is anot'er t'in)& Simmias, "s t'ere or is t'ere not an absol*te j*sti-e2 Ass*redly t'ere is. And an absol*te bea*ty and absol*te )ood2 O( -o*rse. B*t did yo* e5er be'old any o( t'em wit' yo*r eyes2 Certainly not. Or did yo* e5er rea-' t'em wit' any ot'er bodily sense2 7and " s0ea1 not o( t'ese alone& b*t o( absol*te )reatness& and 'ealt'& and stren)t'& and o( t'e essen-e or tr*e nat*re o( e5eryt'in)8. Has t'e reality o( t'em e5er been 0er-ei5ed by yo* t'ro*)' t'e bodily or)ans2 or rat'er& is not t'e nearest a00roa-' to t'e 1nowled)e o( t'eir se5eral nat*res made by 'im w'o so orders 'is intelle-t*al 5ision as to 'a5e t'e most e6a-t -on-e0tion o( t'e essen-e o( t'at w'i-' 'e -onsiders2 Certainly. And 'e attains to t'e 1nowled)e o( t'em in t'eir 'i)'est 0*rity w'o )oes to ea-' o( t'em wit' t'e mind alone& not allowin) w'en in t'e a-t o( t'o*)'t t'e intr*sion or introd*-tion o( si)'t or any ot'er sense in t'e -om0any o( reason& b*t wit' t'e 5ery li)'t o( t'e mind in 'er -learness 0enetrates into t'e 5ery (i)'t o( tr*t' in ea-'4 'e 'as )ot rid& as (ar as 'e -an& o( eyes and ears and o( t'e w'ole body& w'i-' 'e -on-ei5es o( only as a dist*rbin) element& 'inderin) t'e so*l (rom t'e a-:*isition o( 1nowled)e w'en in -om0any wit' 'er9is not t'is t'e sort o( man w'o& i( e5er man did& is li1ely to attain t'e 1nowled)e o( e6isten-e2 !'ere is admirable tr*t' in t'at& So-rates& re0lied Simmias. And w'en t'ey -onsider all t'is& m*st not tr*e 0'iloso0'ers ma1e a re(le-tion& o( w'i-' t'ey will s0ea1 to one anot'er in s*-' words as t'ese, /e 'a5e (o*nd& t'ey will say& a 0at' o( s0e-*lation w'i-' seems to brin) *s and t'e ar)*ment to t'e -on-l*sion t'at w'ile we are in t'e body& and w'ile t'e so*l is min)led wit' t'is mass o( e5il& o*r desire will not be satis(ied& and o*r desire is o( t'e tr*t'. or t'e body is a so*r-e o( endless tro*ble to *s by reason o( t'e mere re:*irement o( (ood4 and also is liable to diseases w'i-' o5erta1e and im0ede *s in t'e sear-' a(ter tr*t', and by (illin) *s so (*ll o( lo5es& and l*sts& and (ears& and (an-ies& and idols& and e5ery sort o( (olly& 0re5ents o*r e5er 'a5in)& as 0eo0le say& so m*-' as a t'o*)'t. or w'en-e -ome wars& and (i)'tin)s& and (a-tions2 w'en-e b*t (rom t'e body and t'e l*sts o( t'e body2 or wars are o--asioned by t'e lo5e o( money& and money 'as to be a-:*ired (or t'e sa1e and in t'e ser5i-e o( t'e body4 and in -onse:*en-e o( all t'ese t'in)s t'e time w'i-' o*)'t to be )i5en to 0'iloso0'y is lost. +oreo5er& i( t'ere is time and an in-lination toward 0'iloso0'y& yet t'e body introd*-es a t*rmoil and -on(*sion and (ear into t'e -o*rse o( s0e-*lation& and 'inders *s (rom seein) t'e tr*t', and all e60erien-e s'ows t'at i( we wo*ld 'a5e 0*re 1nowled)e o( anyt'in) we m*st be :*it o( t'e body& and t'e so*l in 'ersel( m*st be'old all t'in)s in t'emsel5es, t'en " s*00ose t'at we s'all attain t'at w'i-' we desire& and o( w'i-' we say t'at we are lo5ers& and t'at is wisdom& not w'ile we li5e& b*t a(ter deat'& as t'e ar)*ment s'ows4 (or i( w'ile in -om0any wit' t'e body t'e so*l -annot 'a5e 0*re 1nowled)e& one o( two t'in)s seems to (ollow9eit'er 1nowled)e is not to be

attained at all& or& i( at all& a(ter deat'. or t'en& and not till t'en& t'e so*l will be in 'ersel( alone and wit'o*t t'e body. "n t'is 0resent li(e& " re-1on t'at we ma1e t'e nearest a00roa-' to 1nowled)e w'en we 'a5e t'e least 0ossible -on-ern or interest in t'e body& and are not sat*rated wit' t'e bodily nat*re& b*t remain 0*re *ntil t'e 'o*r w'en $od 'imsel( is 0leased to release *s. And t'en t'e (oolis'ness o( t'e body will be -leared away and we s'all be 0*re and 'old -on5erse wit' ot'er 0*re so*ls& and 1now o( o*rsel5es t'e -lear li)'t e5eryw'ere4 and t'is is s*rely t'e li)'t o( tr*t'. or no im0*re t'in) is allowed to a00roa-' t'e 0*re. !'ese are t'e sort o( words& Simmias& w'i-' t'e tr*e lo5ers o( wisdom -annot 'el0 sayin) to one anot'er& and t'in1in). 3o* will a)ree wit' me in t'at2 Certainly& So-rates. B*t i( t'is is tr*e& O my (riend& t'en t'ere is )reat 'o0e t'at& )oin) w'it'er " )o& " s'all t'ere be satis(ied wit' t'at w'i-' 'as been t'e -'ie( -on-ern o( yo* and me in o*r 0ast li5es. And now t'at t'e 'o*r o( de0art*re is a00ointed to me& t'is is t'e 'o0e wit' w'i-' " de0art& and not " only& b*t e5ery man w'o belie5es t'at 'e 'as 'is mind 0*ri(ied. Certainly& re0lied Simmias. And w'at is 0*ri(i-ation b*t t'e se0aration o( t'e so*l (rom t'e body& as " was sayin) be(ore4 t'e 'abit o( t'e so*l )at'erin) and -olle-tin) 'ersel( into 'ersel(& o*t o( all t'e -o*rses o( t'e body4 t'e dwellin) in 'er own 0la-e alone& as in anot'er li(e& so also in t'is& as (ar as s'e -an4 t'e release o( t'e so*l (rom t'e -'ains o( t'e body2 ?ery tr*e& 'e said. And w'at is t'at w'i-' is termed deat'& b*t t'is 5ery se0aration and release o( t'e so*l (rom t'e body2 !o be s*re& 'e said. And t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'ers& and t'ey only& st*dy and are ea)er to release t'e so*l. "s not t'e se0aration and release o( t'e so*l (rom t'e body t'eir es0e-ial st*dy2 !'at is tr*e. And as " was sayin) at (irst& t'ere wo*ld be a ridi-*lo*s -ontradi-tion in men st*dyin) to li5e as nearly as t'ey -an in a state o( deat'& and yet re0inin) w'en deat' -omes. Certainly. !'en& Simmias& as t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'ers are e5er st*dyin) deat'& to t'em& o( all men& deat' is t'e least terrible. #oo1 at t'e matter in t'is way, 'ow in-onsistent o( t'em to 'a5e been always enemies o( t'e body& and wantin) to 'a5e t'e so*l alone& and w'en t'is is )ranted to t'em& to be tremblin) and re0inin)4 instead o( rejoi-in) at t'eir de0artin) to t'at 0la-e w'ere& w'en t'ey arri5e& t'ey 'o0e to )ain t'at w'i-' in li(e t'ey lo5ed 7and t'is was wisdom8& and at t'e same time to be rid o( t'e -om0any o( t'eir enemy. +any a man 'as been willin) to )o to t'e world below in t'e 'o0e o( seein) t'ere an eart'ly lo5e& or wi(e& or son& and -on5ersin) wit' t'em. And will 'e w'o is a tr*e lo5er o( wisdom& and is 0ers*aded in li1e manner t'at only in t'e world below 'e -an wort'ily enjoy 'er& still re0ine at deat'2 /ill 'e not de0art wit' joy2 S*rely 'e will& my (riend& i( 'e be a tr*e 0'iloso0'er. or 'e will 'a5e a (irm -on5i-tion t'at t'ere only& and now'ere else& 'e -an (ind wisdom in 'er 0*rity. And i( t'is be tr*e& 'e wo*ld be 5ery abs*rd& as " was sayin)& i( 'e were to (ear deat'. He wo*ld& indeed& re0lied Simmias. And w'en yo* see a man w'o is re0inin) at t'e a00roa-' o( deat'& is not 'is rel*-tan-e a s*((i-ient 0roo( t'at 'e is not a lo5er o( wisdom& b*t a lo5er o( t'e body& and 0robably at t'e same time a lo5er o( eit'er money or 0ower& or bot'2 !'at is 5ery tr*e& 'e re0lied. !'ere is a 5irt*e& Simmias& w'i-' is named -o*ra)e. "s not t'at a s0e-ial attrib*te o( t'e 0'iloso0'er2 Certainly.

A)ain& t'ere is tem0eran-e. "s not t'e -alm& and -ontrol& and disdain o( t'e 0assions w'i-' e5en t'e many -all tem0eran-e& a :*ality belon)in) only to t'ose w'o des0ise t'e body and li5e in 0'iloso0'y2 !'at is not to be denied. or t'e -o*ra)e and tem0eran-e o( ot'er men& i( yo* will -onsider t'em& are really a -ontradi-tion. How is t'at& So-rates2 /ell& 'e said& yo* are aware t'at deat' is re)arded by men in )eneral as a )reat e5il. !'at is tr*e& 'e said. And do not -o*ra)eo*s men end*re deat' be-a*se t'ey are a(raid o( yet )reater e5ils2 !'at is tr*e. !'en all b*t t'e 0'iloso0'ers are -o*ra)eo*s only (rom (ear& and be-a*se t'ey are a(raid4 and yet t'at a man s'o*ld be -o*ra)eo*s (rom (ear& and be-a*se 'e is a -oward& is s*rely a stran)e t'in). ?ery tr*e. And are not t'e tem0erate e6a-tly in t'e same -ase2 !'ey are tem0erate be-a*se t'ey are intem0erate9w'i-' may seem to be a -ontradi-tion& b*t is ne5ert'eless t'e sort o( t'in) w'i-' 'a00ens wit' t'is (oolis' tem0eran-e. or t'ere are 0leas*res w'i-' t'ey m*st 'a5e& and are a(raid o( losin)4 and t'ere(ore t'ey abstain (rom one -lass o( 0leas*res be-a*se t'ey are o5er-ome by anot'er, and w'ereas intem0eran-e is de(ined as ;bein) *nder t'e dominion o( 0leas*re&; t'ey o5er-ome only be-a*se t'ey are o5er-ome by 0leas*re. And t'at is w'at " mean by sayin) t'at t'ey are tem0erate t'ro*)' intem0eran-e. !'at a00ears to be tr*e. 3et t'e e6-'an)e o( one (ear or 0leas*re or 0ain (or anot'er (ear or 0leas*re or 0ain& w'i-' are meas*red li1e -oins& t'e )reater wit' t'e less& is not t'e e6-'an)e o( 5irt*e. O my dear Simmias& is t'ere not one tr*e -oin (or w'i-' all t'in)s o*)'t to e6-'an)e29and t'at is wisdom4 and only in e6-'an)e (or t'is& and in -om0any wit' t'is& is anyt'in) tr*ly bo*)'t or sold& w'et'er -o*ra)e or tem0eran-e or j*sti-e. And is not all tr*e 5irt*e t'e -om0anion o( wisdom& no matter w'at (ears or 0leas*res or ot'er similar )oods or e5ils may or may not attend 'er2 B*t t'e 5irt*e w'i-' is made *0 o( t'ese )oods& w'en t'ey are se5ered (rom wisdom and e6-'an)ed wit' one anot'er& is a s'adow o( 5irt*e only& nor is t'ere any (reedom or 'ealt' or tr*t' in 'er4 b*t in t'e tr*e e6-'an)e t'ere is a 0*r)in) away o( all t'ese t'in)s& and tem0eran-e& and j*sti-e& and -o*ra)e& and wisdom 'ersel( are a 0*r)ation o( t'em. And " -on-ei5e t'at t'e (o*nders o( t'e mysteries 'ad a real meanin) and were not mere tri(lers w'en t'ey intimated in a (i)*re lon) a)o t'at 'e w'o 0asses *nsan-ti(ied and *ninitiated into t'e world below will li5e in a slo*)'& b*t t'at 'e w'o arri5es t'ere a(ter initiation and 0*ri(i-ation will dwell wit' t'e )ods. or ;many&; as t'ey say in t'e mysteries& ;are t'e t'yrs*s bearers& b*t (ew are t'e mysti-s&;9meanin)& as " inter0ret t'e words& t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'ers. "n t'e n*mber o( w'om " 'a5e been see1in)& a--ordin) to my ability& to (ind a 0la-e d*rin) my w'ole li(e4 w'et'er " 'a5e so*)'t in a ri)'t way or not& and w'et'er " 'a5e s*--eeded or not& " s'all tr*ly 1now in a little w'ile& i( $od will& w'en " mysel( arri5e in t'e ot'er world, t'at is my belie(. And now& Simmias and Cebes& " 'a5e answered t'ose w'o -'ar)e me wit' not )rie5in) or re0inin) at 0artin) (rom yo* and my masters in t'is world4 and " am ri)'t in not re0inin)& (or " belie5e t'at " s'all (ind ot'er masters and (riends w'o are as )ood in t'e world below. B*t all men -annot belie5e t'is& and " s'all be )lad i( my words 'a5e any more s*--ess wit' yo* t'an wit' t'e j*d)es o( t'e At'enians. Cebes answered, " a)ree& So-rates& in t'e )reater 0art o( w'at yo* say. B*t in w'at relates to t'e so*l& men are a0t to be in-red*lo*s4 t'ey (ear t'at w'en s'e lea5es t'e body 'er 0la-e may be now'ere& and t'at on t'e 5ery day o( deat' s'e may be destroyed and 0eris'9immediately on 'er release (rom t'e body& iss*in) (ort' li1e

smo1e or air and 5anis'in) away into not'in)ness. or i( s'e -o*ld only 'old to)et'er and be 'ersel( a(ter s'e was released (rom t'e e5ils o( t'e body& t'ere wo*ld be )ood reason to 'o0e& So-rates& t'at w'at yo* say is tr*e. B*t m*-' 0ers*asion and many ar)*ments are re:*ired in order to 0ro5e t'at w'en t'e man is dead t'e so*l yet e6ists& and 'as any (or-e o( intelli)en-e. !r*e& Cebes& said So-rates4 and s'all " s*))est t'at we tal1 a little o( t'e 0robabilities o( t'ese t'in)s2 " am s*re& said Cebes& t'at " s'o*ld )ready li1e to 1now yo*r o0inion abo*t t'em. " re-1on& said So-rates& t'at no one w'o 'eard me now& not e5en i( 'e were one o( my old enemies& t'e -omi- 0oets& -o*ld a--*se me o( idle tal1in) abo*t matters in w'i-' " 'a5e no -on-ern. #et *s& t'en& i( yo* 0lease& 0ro-eed wit' t'e in:*iry. /'et'er t'e so*ls o( men a(ter deat' are or are not in t'e world below& is a :*estion w'i-' may be ar)*ed in t'is manner, !'e an-ient do-trine o( w'i-' " 'a5e been s0ea1in) a((irms t'at t'ey )o (rom t'is into t'e ot'er world& and ret*rn 'it'er& and are born (rom t'e dead. Now i( t'is be tr*e& and t'e li5in) -ome (rom t'e dead& t'en o*r so*ls m*st be in t'e ot'er world& (or i( not& 'ow -o*ld t'ey be born a)ain2 And t'is wo*ld be -on-l*si5e& i( t'ere were any real e5iden-e t'at t'e li5in) are only born (rom t'e dead4 b*t i( t'ere is no e5iden-e o( t'is& t'en ot'er ar)*ments will 'a5e to be add*-ed. !'at is 5ery tr*e& re0lied Cebes. !'en let *s -onsider t'is :*estion& not in relation to man only& b*t in relation to animals )enerally& and to 0lants& and to e5eryt'in) o( w'i-' t'ere is )eneration& and t'e 0roo( will be easier. Are not all t'in)s w'i-' 'a5e o00osites )enerated o*t o( t'eir o00osites2 " mean s*-' t'in)s as )ood and e5il& j*st and *nj*st9and t'ere are inn*merable ot'er o00osites w'i-' are )enerated o*t o( o00osites. And " want to s'ow t'at t'is 'olds *ni5ersally o( all o00osites4 " mean to say& (or e6am0le& t'at anyt'in) w'i-' be-omes )reater m*st be-ome )reater a(ter bein) less. !r*e. And t'at w'i-' be-omes less m*st 'a5e been on-e )reater and t'en be-ome less. 3es. And t'e wea1er is )enerated (rom t'e stron)er& and t'e swi(ter (rom t'e slower. ?ery tr*e. And t'e worse is (rom t'e better& and t'e more j*st is (rom t'e more *nj*st. O( -o*rse. And is t'is tr*e o( all o00osites2 and are we -on5in-ed t'at all o( t'em are )enerated o*t o( o00osites2 3es. And in t'is *ni5ersal o00osition o( all t'in)s& are t'ere not also two intermediate 0ro-esses w'i-' are e5er )oin) on& (rom one to t'e ot'er& and ba-1 a)ain4 w'ere t'ere is a )reater and a less t'ere is also an intermediate 0ro-ess o( in-rease and dimin*tion& and t'at w'i-' )rows is said to wa6& and t'at w'i-' de-ays to wane2 3es& 'e said. And t'ere are many ot'er 0ro-esses& s*-' as di5ision and -om0osition& -oolin) and 'eatin)& w'i-' e:*ally in5ol5e a 0assa)e into and o*t o( one anot'er. And t'is 'olds o( all o00osites& e5en t'o*)' not always e60ressed in words9t'ey are )enerated o*t o( one anot'er& and t'ere is a 0assin) or 0ro-ess (rom one to t'e ot'er o( t'em2 ?ery tr*e& 'e re0lied. /ell& and is t'ere not an o00osite o( li(e& as slee0 is t'e o00osite o( wa1in)2 !r*e& 'e said. And w'at is t'at2 Deat'& 'e answered. And t'ese& t'en& are )enerated& i( t'ey are o00osites& t'e one

(rom t'e ot'er& and 'a5e t'ere t'eir two intermediate 0ro-esses also2 O( -o*rse. Now& said So-rates& " will analy@e one o( t'e two 0airs o( o00osites w'i-' " 'a5e mentioned to yo*& and also its intermediate 0ro-esses& and yo* s'all analy@e t'e ot'er to me. !'e state o( slee0 is o00osed to t'e state o( wa1in)& and o*t o( slee0in) wa1in) is )enerated& and o*t o( wa1in)& slee0in)& and t'e 0ro-ess o( )eneration is in t'e one -ase (allin) aslee0& and in t'e ot'er wa1in) *0. Are yo* a)reed abo*t t'at2 A*ite a)reed. !'en s*00ose t'at yo* analy@e li(e and deat' to me in t'e same manner. "s not deat' o00osed to li(e2 3es. And t'ey are )enerated one (rom t'e ot'er2 3es. /'at is )enerated (rom li(e2 Deat'. And w'at (rom deat'2 " -an only say in answer9li(e. !'en t'e li5in)& w'et'er t'in)s or 0ersons& Cebes& are )enerated (rom t'e dead2 !'at is -lear& 'e re0lied. !'en t'e in(eren-e is& t'at o*r so*ls are in t'e world below2 !'at is tr*e. And one o( t'e two 0ro-esses or )enerations is 5isible9(or s*rely t'e a-t o( dyin) is 5isible2 S*rely& 'e said. And may not t'e ot'er be in(erred as t'e -om0lement o( nat*re& w'o is not to be s*00osed to )o on one le) only2 And i( not& a -orres0ondin) 0ro-ess o( )eneration in deat' m*st also be assi)ned to 'er2 Certainly& 'e re0lied. And w'at is t'at 0ro-ess2 Re5i5al. And re5i5al& i( t'ere be s*-' a t'in)& is t'e birt' o( t'e dead into t'e world o( t'e li5in)2 A*ite tr*e. !'en t'ere is a new way in w'i-' we arri5e at t'e in(eren-e t'at t'e li5in) -ome (rom t'e dead& j*st as t'e dead -ome (rom t'e li5in)4 and i( t'is is tr*e& t'en t'e so*ls o( t'e dead m*st be in some 0la-e o*t o( w'i-' t'ey -ome a)ain. And t'is& as " t'in1& 'as been satis(a-torily 0ro5ed. 3es& So-rates& 'e said4 all t'is seems to (low ne-essarily o*t o( o*r 0re5io*s admissions. And t'at t'ese admissions are not *n(air& Cebes& 'e said& may be s'own& as " t'in1& in t'is way, "( )eneration were in a strai)'t line only& and t'ere were no -om0ensation or -ir-le in nat*re& no t*rn or ret*rn into one anot'er& t'en yo* 1now t'at all t'in)s wo*ld at last 'a5e t'e same (orm and 0ass into t'e same state& and t'ere wo*ld be no more )eneration o( t'em. /'at do yo* mean2 'e said. A sim0le t'in) eno*)'& w'i-' " will ill*strate by t'e -ase o( slee0& 'e re0lied. 3o* 1now t'at i( t'ere were no -om0ensation o( slee0in) and wa1in)& t'e story o( t'e slee0in) Endymion wo*ld in t'e end 'a5e no meanin)& be-a*se all ot'er t'in)s wo*ld be aslee0& too& and 'e wo*ld not be t'o*)'t o(. Or i( t'ere were -om0osition only& and no di5ision o( s*bstan-es& t'en t'e -'aos o( Ana6a)oras wo*ld -ome a)ain. And in li1e manner& my dear Cebes& i( all t'in)s w'i-' 0artoo1 o( li(e were to die& and a(ter t'ey were dead remained in t'e (orm o( deat'& and did not -ome to li(e a)ain& all wo*ld at last die& and not'in) wo*ld be ali5e9'ow -o*ld t'is be ot'erwise2 or i( t'e li5in) s0rin) (rom any ot'ers w'o are not t'e dead& and t'ey die& m*st not all t'in)s at last be swallowed *0 in deat'2 !'ere is no es-a0e (rom t'at& So-rates& said Cebes4 and " t'in1 t'at

w'at yo* say is entirely tr*e. 3es& 'e said& Cebes& " entirely t'in1 so& too4 and we are not wal1in) in a 5ain ima)ination4 b*t " am -on(ident in t'e belie( t'at t'ere tr*ly is s*-' a t'in) as li5in) a)ain& and t'at t'e li5in) s0rin) (rom t'e dead& and t'at t'e so*ls o( t'e dead are in e6isten-e& and t'at t'e )ood so*ls 'a5e a better 0ortion t'an t'e e5il. Cebes added, 3o*r (a5orite do-trine& So-rates& t'at 1nowled)e is sim0ly re-olle-tion& i( tr*e& also ne-essarily im0lies a 0re5io*s time in w'i-' we learned t'at w'i-' we now re-olle-t. B*t t'is wo*ld be im0ossible *nless o*r so*l was in some 0la-e be(ore e6istin) in t'e '*man (orm4 'ere& t'en& is anot'er ar)*ment o( t'e so*l=s immortality. B*t tell me& Cebes& said Simmias& inter0osin)& w'at 0roo(s are )i5en o( t'is do-trine o( re-olle-tion2 " am not 5ery s*re at t'is moment t'at " remember t'em. One e6-ellent 0roo(& said Cebes& is a((orded by :*estions. "( yo* 0*t a :*estion to a 0erson in a ri)'t way& 'e will )i5e a tr*e answer o( 'imsel(4 b*t 'ow -o*ld 'e do t'is *nless t'ere were 1nowled)e and ri)'t reason already in 'im2 And t'is is most -learly s'own w'en 'e is ta1en to a dia)ram or to anyt'in) o( t'at sort. B*t i(& said So-rates& yo* are still in-red*lo*s& Simmias& " wo*ld as1 yo* w'et'er yo* may not a)ree wit' me w'en yo* loo1 at t'e matter in anot'er way4 " mean& i( yo* are still in-red*lo*s as to w'et'er 1nowled)e is re-olle-tion. "n-red*lo*s& " am not& said Simmias4 b*t " want to 'a5e t'is do-trine o( re-olle-tion bro*)'t to my own re-olle-tion& and& (rom w'at Cebes 'as said& " am be)innin) to re-olle-t and be -on5in-ed4 b*t " s'o*ld still li1e to 'ear w'at more yo* 'a5e to say. !'is is w'at " wo*ld say& 'e re0lied, /e s'o*ld a)ree& i( " am not mista1en& t'at w'at a man re-olle-ts 'e m*st 'a5e 1nown at some 0re5io*s time. ?ery tr*e. And w'at is t'e nat*re o( t'is re-olle-tion2 And& in as1in) t'is& " mean to as1 w'et'er& w'en a 0erson 'as already seen or 'eard or in any way 0er-ei5ed anyt'in)& and 'e 1nows not only t'at& b*t somet'in) else o( w'i-' 'e 'as not t'e same& b*t anot'er 1nowled)e& we may not (airly say t'at 'e re-olle-ts t'at w'i-' -omes into 'is mind. Are we a)reed abo*t t'at2 /'at do yo* mean2 " mean w'at " may ill*strate by t'e (ollowin) instan-e, !'e 1nowled)e o( a lyre is not t'e same as t'e 1nowled)e o( a man2 !r*e. And yet w'at is t'e (eelin) o( lo5ers w'en t'ey re-o)ni@e a lyre& or a )arment& or anyt'in) else w'i-' t'e belo5ed 'as been in t'e 'abit o( *sin)2 Do not t'ey& (rom 1nowin) t'e lyre& (orm in t'e mind=s eye an ima)e o( t'e yo*t' to w'om t'e lyre belon)s2 And t'is is re-olle-tion, and in t'e same way anyone w'o sees Simmias may remember Cebes4 and t'ere are endless ot'er t'in)s o( t'e same nat*re. 3es& indeed& t'ere are9endless& re0lied Simmias. And t'is sort o( t'in)& 'e said& is re-olle-tion& and is most -ommonly a 0ro-ess o( re-o5erin) t'at w'i-' 'as been (or)otten t'ro*)' time and inattention. ?ery tr*e& 'e said. /ell4 and may yo* not also (rom seein) t'e 0i-t*re o( a 'orse or a lyre remember a man2 and (rom t'e 0i-t*re o( Simmias& yo* may be led to remember Cebes2 !r*e. Or yo* may also be led to t'e re-olle-tion o( Simmias 'imsel(2 !r*e& 'e said. And in all t'ese -ases& t'e re-olle-tion may be deri5ed (rom t'in)s eit'er li1e or *nli1e2 !'at is tr*e. And w'en t'e re-olle-tion is deri5ed (rom li1e t'in)s& t'en t'ere is s*re to be anot'er :*estion& w'i-' is& w'et'er t'e li1eness o( t'at w'i-' is re-olle-ted is in any way de(e-ti5e or not.

?ery tr*e& 'e said. And s'all we 0ro-eed a ste0 (*rt'er& and a((irm t'at t'ere is s*-' a t'in) as e:*ality& not o( wood wit' wood& or o( stone wit' stone& b*t t'at& o5er and abo5e t'is& t'ere is e:*ality in t'e abstra-t2 S'all we a((irm t'is2 A((irm& yes& and swear to it& re0lied Simmias& wit' all t'e -on(iden-e in li(e. And do we 1now t'e nat*re o( t'is abstra-t essen-e2 !o be s*re& 'e said. And w'en-e did we obtain t'is 1nowled)e2 Did we not see e:*alities o( material t'in)s& s*-' as 0ie-es o( wood and stones& and )at'er (rom t'em t'e idea o( an e:*ality w'i-' is di((erent (rom t'em29yo* will admit t'at2 Or loo1 at t'e matter a)ain in t'is way, Do not t'e same 0ie-es o( wood or stone a00ear at one time e:*al& and at anot'er time *ne:*al2 !'at is -ertain. B*t are real e:*als e5er *ne:*al2 or is t'e idea o( e:*ality e5er ine:*ality2 !'at s*rely was ne5er yet 1nown& So-rates. !'en t'ese 7so9-alled8 e:*als are not t'e same wit' t'e idea o( e:*ality2 " s'o*ld say& -learly not& So-rates. And yet (rom t'ese e:*als& alt'o*)' di((erin) (rom t'e idea o( e:*ality& yo* -on-ei5ed and attained t'at idea2 ?ery tr*e& 'e said. /'i-' mi)'t be li1e& or mi)'t be *nli1e t'em2 3es. B*t t'at ma1es no di((eren-e4 w'ene5er (rom seein) one t'in) yo* -on-ei5ed anot'er& w'et'er li1e or *nli1e& t'ere m*st s*rely 'a5e been an a-t o( re-olle-tion2 ?ery tr*e. B*t w'at wo*ld yo* say o( e:*al 0ortions o( wood and stone& or ot'er material e:*als2 and w'at is t'e im0ression 0rod*-ed by t'em2 Are t'ey e:*als in t'e same sense as absol*te e:*ality2 or do t'ey (all s'ort o( t'is in a meas*re2 3es& 'e said& in a 5ery )reat meas*re& too. And m*st we not allow t'at w'en " or anyone loo1 at any obje-t& and 0er-ei5e t'at t'e obje-t aims at bein) some ot'er t'in)& b*t (alls s'ort o(& and -annot attain to it9'e w'o ma1es t'is obser5ation m*st 'a5e 'ad 0re5io*s 1nowled)e o( t'at to w'i-'& as 'e says& t'e ot'er& alt'o*)' similar& was in(erior2 Certainly. And 'as not t'is been o*r -ase in t'e matter o( e:*als and o( absol*te e:*ality2 Pre-isely. !'en we m*st 'a5e 1nown absol*te e:*ality 0re5io*sly to t'e time w'en we (irst saw t'e material e:*als& and re(le-ted t'at all t'ese a00arent e:*als aim at t'is absol*te e:*ality& b*t (all s'ort o( it2 !'at is tr*e. And we re-o)ni@e also t'at t'is absol*te e:*ality 'as only been 1nown& and -an only be 1nown& t'ro*)' t'e medi*m o( si)'t or to*-'& or o( some ot'er sense. And t'is " wo*ld a((irm o( all s*-' -on-e0tions. 3es& So-rates& as (ar as t'e ar)*ment is -on-erned& one o( t'em is t'e same as t'e ot'er. And (rom t'e senses& t'en& is deri5ed t'e 1nowled)e t'at all sensible t'in)s aim at an idea o( e:*ality o( w'i-' t'ey (all s'ort9is not t'at tr*e2 3es. !'en be(ore we be)an to see or 'ear or 0er-ei5e in any way& we m*st 'a5e 'ad a 1nowled)e o( absol*te e:*ality& or we -o*ld not 'a5e re(erred to t'at t'e e:*als w'i-' are deri5ed (rom t'e senses9(or to t'at t'ey all as0ire& and o( t'at t'ey (all s'ort2 !'at& So-rates& is -ertainly to be in(erred (rom t'e 0re5io*s statements.

And did we not see and 'ear and a-:*ire o*r ot'er senses as soon as we were born2 Certainly. !'en we m*st 'a5e a-:*ired t'e 1nowled)e o( t'e ideal e:*al at some time 0re5io*s to t'is2 3es. !'at is to say& be(ore we were born& " s*00ose2 !r*e. And i( we a-:*ired t'is 1nowled)e be(ore we were born& and were born 'a5in) it& t'en we also 1new be(ore we were born and at t'e instant o( birt' not only e:*al or t'e )reater or t'e less& b*t all ot'er ideas4 (or we are not s0ea1in) only o( e:*ality absol*te& b*t o( bea*ty& )oodness& j*sti-e& 'oliness& and all w'i-' we stam0 wit' t'e name o( essen-e in t'e diale-ti-al 0ro-ess& w'en we as1 and answer :*estions. O( all t'is we may -ertainly a((irm t'at we a-:*ired t'e 1nowled)e be(ore birt'2 !'at is tr*e. B*t i(& a(ter 'a5in) a-:*ired& we 'a5e not (or)otten t'at w'i-' we a-:*ired& t'en we m*st always 'a5e been born wit' 1nowled)e& and s'all always -ontin*e to 1now as lon) as li(e lasts9(or 1nowin) is t'e a-:*irin) and retainin) 1nowled)e and not (or)ettin). "s not (or)ettin)& Simmias& j*st t'e losin) o( 1nowled)e2 A*ite tr*e& So-rates. B*t i( t'e 1nowled)e w'i-' we a-:*ired be(ore birt' was lost by *s at birt'& and a(terwards by t'e *se o( t'e senses we re-o5ered t'at w'i-' we 0re5io*sly 1new& will not t'at w'i-' we -all learnin) be a 0ro-ess o( re-o5erin) o*r 1nowled)e& and may not t'is be ri)'tly termed re-olle-tion by *s2 ?ery tr*e. or t'is is -lear& t'at w'en we 0er-ei5ed somet'in)& eit'er by t'e 'el0 o( si)'t or 'earin)& or some ot'er sense& t'ere was no di((i-*lty in re-ei5in) (rom t'is a -on-e0tion o( some ot'er t'in) li1e or *nli1e w'i-' 'ad been (or)otten and w'i-' was asso-iated wit' t'is4 and t'ere(ore& as " was sayin)& one o( two alternati5es (ollows, eit'er we 'ad t'is 1nowled)e at birt'& and -ontin*ed to 1now t'ro*)' li(e4 or& a(ter birt'& t'ose w'o are said to learn only remember& and learnin) is re-olle-tion only. 3es& t'at is :*ite tr*e& So-rates. And w'i-' alternati5e& Simmias& do yo* 0re(er2 Had we t'e 1nowled)e at o*r birt'& or did we remember a(terwards t'e t'in)s w'i-' we 1new 0re5io*sly to o*r birt'2 " -annot de-ide at t'e moment. At any rate yo* -an de-ide w'et'er 'e w'o 'as 1nowled)e o*)'t or o*)'t not to be able to )i5e a reason (or w'at 'e 1nows. Certainly& 'e o*)'t. B*t do yo* t'in1 t'at e5ery man is able to )i5e a reason abo*t t'ese 5ery matters o( w'i-' we are s0ea1in)2 " wis' t'at t'ey -o*ld& So-rates& b*t " )reatly (ear t'at to9morrow at t'is time t'ere will be no one able to )i5e a reason wort' 'a5in). !'en yo* are not o( o0inion& Simmias& t'at all men 1now t'ese t'in)s2 Certainly not. !'en t'ey are in 0ro-ess o( re-olle-tin) t'at w'i-' t'ey learned be(ore. Certainly. B*t w'en did o*r so*ls a-:*ire t'is 1nowled)e29not sin-e we were born as men2 Certainly not. And t'ere(ore 0re5io*sly2 3es. !'en& Simmias& o*r so*ls m*st 'a5e e6isted be(ore t'ey were in t'e (orm o( man9wit'o*t bodies& and m*st 'a5e 'ad intelli)en-e. %nless indeed yo* s*00ose& So-rates& t'at t'ese notions were )i5en

*s at t'e moment o( birt'4 (or t'is is t'e only time t'at remains. 3es& my (riend& b*t w'en did we lose t'em2 (or t'ey are not in *s w'en we are born9t'at is admitted. Did we lose t'em at t'e moment o( re-ei5in) t'em& or at some ot'er time2 No& So-rates& " 0er-ei5e t'at " was *n-ons-io*sly tal1in) nonsense. !'en may we not say& Simmias& t'at i(& as we are always re0eatin)& t'ere is an absol*te bea*ty& and )oodness& and essen-e in )eneral& and to t'is& w'i-' is now dis-o5ered to be a 0re5io*s -ondition o( o*r bein)& we re(er all o*r sensations& and wit' t'is -om0are t'em9ass*min) t'is to 'a5e a 0rior e6isten-e& t'en o*r so*ls m*st 'a5e 'ad a 0rior e6isten-e& b*t i( not& t'ere wo*ld be no (or-e in t'e ar)*ment2 !'ere -an be no do*bt t'at i( t'ese absol*te ideas e6isted be(ore we were born& t'en o*r so*ls m*st 'a5e e6isted be(ore we were born& and i( not t'e ideas& t'en not t'e so*ls. 3es& So-rates4 " am -on5in-ed t'at t'ere is 0re-isely t'e same ne-essity (or t'e e6isten-e o( t'e so*l be(ore birt'& and o( t'e essen-e o( w'i-' yo* are s0ea1in), and t'e ar)*ment arri5es at a res*lt w'i-' 'a00ily a)rees wit' my own notion. or t'ere is not'in) w'i-' to my mind is so e5ident as t'at bea*ty& )oodness& and ot'er notions o( w'i-' yo* were j*st now s0ea1in) 'a5e a most real and absol*te e6isten-e4 and " am satis(ied wit' t'e 0roo(. /ell& b*t is Cebes e:*ally satis(ied2 (or " m*st -on5in-e 'im too. " t'in1& said Simmias& t'at Cebes is satis(ied, alt'o*)' 'e is t'e most in-red*lo*s o( mortals& yet " belie5e t'at 'e is -on5in-ed o( t'e e6isten-e o( t'e so*l be(ore birt'. B*t t'at a(ter deat' t'e so*l will -ontin*e to e6ist is not yet 0ro5en e5en to my own satis(a-tion. " -annot )et rid o( t'e (eelin) o( t'e many to w'i-' Cebes was re(errin)9t'e (eelin) t'at w'en t'e man dies t'e so*l may be s-attered& and t'at t'is may be t'e end o( 'er. or admittin) t'at s'e may be )enerated and -reated in some ot'er 0la-e& and may 'a5e e6isted be(ore enterin) t'e '*man body& w'y a(ter 'a5in) entered in and )one o*t a)ain may s'e not 'ersel( be destroyed and -ome to an end2 ?ery tr*e& Simmias& said Cebes4 t'at o*r so*l e6isted be(ore we were born was t'e (irst 'al( o( t'e ar)*ment& and t'is a00ears to 'a5e been 0ro5en4 t'at t'e so*l will e6ist a(ter deat' as well as be(ore birt' is t'e ot'er 'al( o( w'i-' t'e 0roo( is still wantin)& and 'as to be s*00lied. B*t t'at 0roo(& Simmias and Cebes& 'as been already )i5en& said So-rates& i( yo* 0*t t'e two ar)*ments to)et'er9" mean t'is and t'e (ormer one& in w'i-' we admitted t'at e5eryt'in) li5in) is born o( t'e dead. or i( t'e so*l e6isted be(ore birt'& and in -omin) to li(e and bein) born -an be born only (rom deat' and dyin)& m*st s'e not a(ter deat' -ontin*e to e6ist& sin-e s'e 'as to be born a)ain2 s*rely t'e 0roo( w'i-' yo* desire 'as been already (*rnis'ed. Still " s*s0e-t t'at yo* and Simmias wo*ld be )lad to 0robe t'e ar)*ment (*rt'er4 li1e -'ildren& yo* are 'a*nted wit' a (ear t'at w'en t'e so*l lea5es t'e body& t'e wind may really blow 'er away and s-atter 'er4 es0e-ially i( a man s'o*ld 'a00en to die in stormy weat'er and not w'en t'e s1y is -alm. Cebes answered wit' a smile, !'en& So-rates& yo* m*st ar)*e *s o*t o( o*r (ears9and yet& stri-tly s0ea1in)& t'ey are not o*r (ears& b*t t'ere is a -'ild wit'in *s to w'om deat' is a sort o( 'ob)oblin4 'im too we m*st 0ers*ade not to be a(raid w'en 'e is alone wit' 'im in t'e dar1. So-rates said, #et t'e 5oi-e o( t'e -'armer be a00lied daily *ntil yo* 'a5e -'armed 'im away. And w'ere s'all we (ind a )ood -'armer o( o*r (ears& So-rates& w'en yo* are )one2 Hellas& 'e re0lied& is a lar)e 0la-e& Cebes& and 'as many )ood men& and t'ere are barbaro*s ra-es not a (ew, see1 (or 'im amon) t'em all& (ar and wide& s0arin) neit'er 0ains nor money4 (or t'ere is no better way o( *sin) yo*r money. And yo* m*st not (or)et to see1 (or 'im amon) yo*rsel5es too4 (or 'e is now'ere more li1ely to be (o*nd.

!'e sear-'& re0lied Cebes& s'all -ertainly be made. And now& i( yo* 0lease& let *s ret*rn to t'e 0oint o( t'e ar)*ment at w'i-' we di)ressed. By all means& re0lied So-rates4 w'at else s'o*ld " 0lease2 ?ery )ood& 'e said. +*st we not& said So-rates& as1 o*rsel5es some :*estion o( t'is sort29/'at is t'at w'i-'& as we ima)ine& is liable to be s-attered away& and abo*t w'i-' we (ear2 and w'at a)ain is t'at abo*t w'i-' we 'a5e no (ear2 And t'en we may 0ro-eed to in:*ire w'et'er t'at w'i-' s*((ers dis0ersion is or is not o( t'e nat*re o( so*l9o*r 'o0es and (ears as to o*r own so*ls will t*rn *0on t'at. !'at is tr*e& 'e said. Now t'e -om0o*nd or -om0osite may be s*00osed to be nat*rally -a0able o( bein) dissol5ed in li1e manner as o( bein) -om0o*nded4 b*t t'at w'i-' is *n-om0o*nded& and t'at only& m*st be& i( anyt'in) is& indissol*ble. 3es4 t'at is w'at " s'o*ld ima)ine& said Cebes. And t'e *n-om0o*nded may be ass*med to be t'e same and *n-'an)in)& w'ere t'e -om0o*nd is always -'an)in) and ne5er t'e same2 !'at " also t'in1& 'e said. !'en now let *s ret*rn to t'e 0re5io*s dis-*ssion. "s t'at idea or essen-e& w'i-' in t'e diale-ti-al 0ro-ess we de(ine as essen-e o( tr*e e6isten-e9w'et'er essen-e o( e:*ality& bea*ty& or anyt'in) else, are t'ese essen-es& " say& liable at times to some de)ree o( -'an)e2 or are t'ey ea-' o( t'em always w'at t'ey are& 'a5in) t'e same sim0le& sel(9e6istent and *n-'an)in) (orms& and not admittin) o( 5ariation at all& or in any way& or at any time2 !'ey m*st be always t'e same& So-rates& re0lied Cebes. And w'at wo*ld yo* say o( t'e many bea*ti(*l9w'et'er men or 'orses or )arments or any ot'er t'in)s w'i-' may be -alled e:*al or bea*ti(*l9are t'ey all *n-'an)in) and t'e same always& or :*ite t'e re5erse2 +ay t'ey not rat'er be des-ribed as almost always -'an)in) and 'ardly e5er t'e same eit'er wit' t'emsel5es or wit' one anot'er2 !'e latter& re0lied Cebes4 t'ey are always in a state o( -'an)e. And t'ese yo* -an to*-' and see and 0er-ei5e wit' t'e senses& b*t t'e *n-'an)in) t'in)s yo* -an only 0er-ei5e wit' t'e mind9t'ey are in5isible and are not seen2 !'at is 5ery tr*e& 'e said. /ell& t'en& 'e added& let *s s*00ose t'at t'ere are two sorts o( e6isten-es& one seen& t'e ot'er *nseen. #et *s s*00ose t'em. !'e seen is t'e -'an)in)& and t'e *nseen is t'e *n-'an)in). !'at may be also s*00osed. And& (*rt'er& is not one 0art o( *s body& and t'e rest o( *s so*l2 !o be s*re. And to w'i-' -lass may we say t'at t'e body is more ali1e and a1in2 Clearly to t'e seen, no one -an do*bt t'at. And is t'e so*l seen or not seen2 Not by man& So-rates. And by ;seen; and ;not seen; is meant by *s t'at w'i-' is or is not 5isible to t'e eye o( man2 3es& to t'e eye o( man. And w'at do we say o( t'e so*l2 is t'at seen or not seen2 Not seen. %nseen t'en2 3es. !'en t'e so*l is more li1e to t'e *nseen& and t'e body to t'e seen2 !'at is most -ertain& So-rates. And were we not sayin) lon) a)o t'at t'e so*l w'en *sin) t'e body as an instr*ment o( 0er-e0tion& t'at is to say& w'en *sin) t'e sense o( si)'t or 'earin) or some ot'er sense 7(or t'e meanin) o( 0er-ei5in) t'ro*)' t'e body is 0er-ei5in) t'ro*)' t'e senses89were we not sayin) t'at t'e so*l too is t'en dra))ed by t'e body into t'e re)ion o( t'e -'an)eable& and wanders and is -on(*sed4 t'e world s0ins

ro*nd 'er& and s'e is li1e a dr*n1ard w'en *nder t'eir in(l*en-e2 ?ery tr*e. B*t w'en ret*rnin) into 'ersel( s'e re(le-ts4 t'en s'e 0asses into t'e realm o( 0*rity& and eternity& and immortality& and *n-'an)eableness& w'i-' are 'er 1indred& and wit' t'em s'e e5er li5es& w'en s'e is by 'ersel( and is not let or 'indered4 t'en s'e -eases (rom 'er errin) ways& and bein) in -omm*nion wit' t'e *n-'an)in) is *n-'an)in). And t'is state o( t'e so*l is -alled wisdom2 !'at is well and tr*ly said& So-rates& 'e re0lied. And to w'i-' -lass is t'e so*l more nearly ali1e and a1in& as (ar as may be in(erred (rom t'is ar)*ment& as well as (rom t'e 0re-edin) one2 " t'in1& So-rates& t'at& in t'e o0inion o( e5eryone w'o (ollows t'e ar)*ment& t'e so*l will be in(initely more li1e t'e *n-'an)eable e5en t'e most st*0id 0erson will not deny t'at. And t'e body is more li1e t'e -'an)in)2 3es. 3et on-e more -onsider t'e matter in t'is li)'t, /'en t'e so*l and t'e body are *nited& t'en nat*re orders t'e so*l to r*le and )o5ern& and t'e body to obey and ser5e. Now w'i-' o( t'ese two (*n-tions is a1in to t'e di5ine2 and w'i-' to t'e mortal2 Does not t'e di5ine a00ear to yo* to be t'at w'i-' nat*rally orders and r*les& and t'e mortal t'at w'i-' is s*bje-t and ser5ant2 !r*e. And w'i-' does t'e so*l resemble2 !'e so*l resembles t'e di5ine and t'e body t'e mortal9t'ere -an be no do*bt o( t'at& So-rates. !'en re(le-t& Cebes, is not t'e -on-l*sion o( t'e w'ole matter t'is29t'at t'e so*l is in t'e 5ery li1eness o( t'e di5ine& and immortal& and intelli)ible& and *ni(orm& and indissol*ble& and *n-'an)eable4 and t'e body is in t'e 5ery li1eness o( t'e '*man& and mortal& and *nintelli)ible& and m*lti(orm& and dissol*ble& and -'an)eable. Can t'is& my dear Cebes& be denied2 No& indeed. B*t i( t'is is tr*e& t'en is not t'e body liable to s0eedy dissol*tion2 and is not t'e so*l almost or alto)et'er indissol*ble2 Certainly. And do yo* (*rt'er obser5e& t'at a(ter a man is dead& t'e body& w'i-' is t'e 5isible 0art o( man& and 'as a 5isible (ramewor1& w'i-' is -alled a -or0se& and w'i-' wo*ld nat*rally be dissol5ed and de-om0osed and dissi0ated& is not dissol5ed or de-om0osed at on-e& b*t may remain (or a )ood w'ile& i( t'e -onstit*tion be so*nd at t'e time o( deat'& and t'e season o( t'e year (a5orable2 or t'e body w'en s'r*n1 and embalmed& as is t'e -*stom in E)y0t& may remain almost entire t'ro*)' in(inite a)es4 and e5en in de-ay& still t'ere are some 0ortions& s*-' as t'e bones and li)aments& w'i-' are 0ra-ti-ally indestr*-tible. 3o* allow t'at2 3es. And are we to s*00ose t'at t'e so*l& w'i-' is in5isible& in 0assin) to t'e tr*e Hades& w'i-' li1e 'er is in5isible& and 0*re& and noble& and on 'er way to t'e )ood and wise $od& w'it'er& i( $od will& my so*l is also soon to )o9t'at t'e so*l& " re0eat& i( t'is be 'er nat*re and ori)in& is blown away and 0eris'es immediately on :*ittin) t'e body as t'e many say2 !'at -an ne5er be& dear Simmias and Cebes. !'e tr*t' rat'er is t'at t'e so*l w'i-' is 0*re at de0artin) draws a(ter 'er no bodily taint& 'a5in) ne5er 5ol*ntarily 'ad -onne-tion wit' t'e body& w'i-' s'e is e5er a5oidin)& 'ersel( )at'ered into 'ersel( 7(or s*-' abstra-tion 'as been t'e st*dy o( 'er li(e8. And w'at does t'is mean b*t t'at s'e 'as been a tr*e dis-i0le o( 0'iloso0'y and 'as 0ra-tised 'ow to die easily2 And is not 0'iloso0'y t'e 0ra-ti-e o( deat'2 Certainly. !'at so*l& " say& 'ersel( in5isible& de0arts to t'e in5isible

worldto t'e di5ine and immortal and rational, t'it'er arri5in)& s'e li5es in bliss and is released (rom t'e error and (olly o( men& t'eir (ears and wild 0assions and all ot'er '*man ills& and (ore5er dwells& as t'ey say o( t'e initiated& in -om0any wit' t'e )ods. "s not t'is tr*e& Cebes2 3es& said Cebes& beyond a do*bt. B*t t'e so*l w'i-' 'as been 0oll*ted& and is im0*re at t'e time o( 'er de0art*re& and is t'e -om0anion and ser5ant o( t'e body always& and is in lo5e wit' and (as-inated by t'e body and by t'e desires and 0leas*res o( t'e body& *ntil s'e is led to belie5e t'at t'e tr*t' only e6ists in a bodily (orm& w'i-' a man may to*-' and see and taste and *se (or t'e 0*r0oses o( 'is l*sts9t'e so*l& " mean& a--*stomed to 'ate and (ear and a5oid t'e intelle-t*al 0rin-i0le& w'i-' to t'e bodily eye is dar1 and in5isible& and -an be attained only by 0'iloso0'y9do yo* s*00ose t'at s*-' a so*l as t'is will de0art 0*re and *nalloyed2 !'at is im0ossible& 'e re0lied. S'e is en)rossed by t'e -or0oreal& w'i-' t'e -ontin*al asso-iation and -onstant -are o( t'e body 'a5e made nat*ral to 'er. ?ery tr*e. And t'is& my (riend& may be -on-ei5ed to be t'at 'ea5y& wei)'ty& eart'y element o( si)'t by w'i-' s*-' a so*l is de0ressed and dra))ed down a)ain into t'e 5isible world& be-a*se s'e is a(raid o( t'e in5isible and o( t'e world below90rowlin) abo*t tombs and se0*l-'res& in t'e nei)'bor'ood o( w'i-'& as t'ey tell *s& are seen -ertain )'ostly a00aritions o( so*ls w'i-' 'a5e not de0arted 0*re& b*t are -loyed wit' si)'t and t'ere(ore 5isible. !'at is 5ery li1ely& So-rates. 3es& t'at is 5ery li1ely& Cebes4 and t'ese m*st be t'e so*ls& not o( t'e )ood& b*t o( t'e e5il& w'o are -om0elled to wander abo*t s*-' 0la-es in 0ayment o( t'e 0enalty o( t'eir (ormer e5il way o( li(e4 and t'ey -ontin*e to wander *ntil t'e desire w'i-' 'a*nts t'em is satis(ied and t'ey are im0risoned in anot'er body. And t'ey may be s*00osed to be (i6ed in t'e same nat*res w'i-' t'ey 'ad in t'eir (ormer li(e. /'at nat*res do yo* mean& So-rates2 " mean to say t'at men w'o 'a5e (ollowed a(ter )l*ttony& and wantonness& and dr*n1enness& and 'a5e 'ad no t'o*)'t o( a5oidin) t'em& wo*ld 0ass into asses and animals o( t'at sort. /'at do yo* t'in12 " t'in1 t'at e6-eedin)ly 0robable. And t'ose w'o 'a5e -'osen t'e 0ortion o( inj*sti-e& and tyranny& and 5iolen-e& will 0ass into wol5es& or into 'aw1s and 1ites4 w'it'er else -an we s*00ose t'em to )o2 3es& said Cebes4 t'at is do*btless t'e 0la-e o( nat*res s*-' as t'eirs. And t'ere is no di((i-*lty& 'e said& in assi)nin) to all o( t'em 0la-es answerin) to t'eir se5eral nat*res and 0ro0ensities2 !'ere is not& 'e said. E5en amon) t'em some are 'a00ier t'an ot'ers4 and t'e 'a00iest bot' in t'emsel5es and t'eir 0la-e o( abode are t'ose w'o 'a5e 0ra-tised t'e -i5il and so-ial 5irt*es w'i-' are -alled tem0eran-e and j*sti-e& and are a-:*ired by 'abit and attention wit'o*t 0'iloso0'y and mind. /'y are t'ey t'e 'a00iest2 Be-a*se t'ey may be e60e-ted to 0ass into some )entle& so-ial nat*re w'i-' is li1e t'eir own& s*-' as t'at o( bees or ants& or e5en ba-1 a)ain into t'e (orm o( man& and j*st and moderate men s0rin) (rom t'em. !'at is not im0ossible. B*t 'e w'o is a 0'iloso0'er or lo5er o( learnin)& and is entirely 0*re at de0artin)& is alone 0ermitted to rea-' t'e )ods. And t'is is t'e reason& Simmias and Cebes& w'y t'e tr*e 5otaries o( 0'iloso0'y abstain (rom all (les'ly l*sts& and end*re and re(*se to )i5e t'emsel5es *0 to t'em9not be-a*se t'ey (ear 0o5erty or t'e r*in o( t'eir (amilies& li1e t'e lo5ers o( money& and t'e world in )eneral4

nor li1e t'e lo5ers o( 0ower and 'onor& be-a*se t'ey dread t'e dis'onor or dis)ra-e o( e5il deeds. No& So-rates& t'at wo*ld not be-ome t'em& said Cebes. No& indeed& 'e re0lied4 and t'ere(ore t'ey w'o 'a5e a -are o( t'eir so*ls& and do not merely li5e in t'e (as'ions o( t'e body& say (arewell to all t'is4 t'ey will not wal1 in t'e ways o( t'e blind, and w'en 0'iloso0'y o((ers t'em 0*ri(i-ation and release (rom e5il& t'ey (eel t'at t'ey o*)'t not to resist 'er in(l*en-e& and to 'er t'ey in-line& and w'it'er s'e leads t'ey (ollow 'er. /'at do yo* mean& So-rates2 " will tell yo*& 'e said. !'e lo5ers o( 1nowled)e are -ons-io*s t'at t'eir so*ls& w'en 0'iloso0'y re-ei5es t'em& are sim0ly (astened and )l*ed to t'eir bodies, t'e so*l is only able to 5iew e6isten-e t'ro*)' t'e bars o( a 0rison& and not in 'er own nat*re4 s'e is wallowin) in t'e mire o( all i)noran-e4 and 0'iloso0'y& seein) t'e terrible nat*re o( 'er -on(inement& and t'at t'e -a0ti5e t'ro*)' desire is led to -ons0ire in 'er own -a0ti5ity 7(or t'e lo5ers o( 1nowled)e are aware t'at t'is was t'e ori)inal state o( t'e so*l& and t'at w'en s'e was in t'is state 0'iloso0'y re-ei5ed and )ently -o*nseled 'er& and wanted to release 'er& 0ointin) o*t to 'er t'at t'e eye is (*ll o( de-eit& and also t'e ear and ot'er senses& and 0ers*adin) 'er to retire (rom t'em in all b*t t'e ne-essary *se o( t'em and to be )at'ered *0 and -olle-ted into 'ersel(& and to tr*st only to 'ersel( and 'er own int*itions o( absol*te e6isten-e& and mistr*st t'at w'i-' -omes to 'er t'ro*)' ot'ers and is s*bje-t to 5i-issit*de890'iloso0'y s'ows 'er t'at t'is is 5isible and tan)ible& b*t t'at w'at s'e sees in 'er own nat*re is intelle-t*al and in5isible. And t'e so*l o( t'e tr*e 0'iloso0'er t'in1s t'at s'e o*)'t not to resist t'is deli5eran-e& and t'ere(ore abstains (rom 0leas*res and desires and 0ains and (ears& as (ar as s'e is able4 re(le-tin) t'at w'en a man 'as )reat joys or sorrows or (ears or desires 'e s*((ers (rom t'em& not t'e sort o( e5il w'i-' mi)'t be anti-i0ated9as& (or e6am0le& t'e loss o( 'is 'ealt' or 0ro0erty& w'i-' 'e 'as sa-ri(i-ed to 'is l*sts9b*t 'e 'as s*((ered an e5il )reater (ar& w'i-' is t'e )reatest and worst o( all e5ils& and one o( w'i-' 'e ne5er t'in1s. And w'at is t'at& So-rates2 said Cebes. /'y& t'is, /'en t'e (eelin) o( 0leas*re or 0ain in t'e so*l is most intense& all o( *s nat*rally s*00ose t'at t'e obje-t o( t'is intense (eelin) is t'en 0lainest and tr*est, b*t t'is is not t'e -ase. ?ery tr*e. And t'is is t'e state in w'i-' t'e so*l is most ent'ralled by t'e body. How is t'at2 /'y& be-a*se ea-' 0leas*re and 0ain is a sort o( nail w'i-' nails and ri5ets t'e so*l to t'e body& and en)rosses 'er and ma1es 'er belie5e t'at to be tr*e w'i-' t'e body a((irms to be tr*e4 and (rom a)reein) wit' t'e body and 'a5in) t'e same deli)'ts s'e is obli)ed to 'a5e t'e same 'abits and ways& and is not li1ely e5er to be 0*re at 'er de0art*re to t'e world below& b*t is always sat*rated wit' t'e body4 so t'at s'e soon sin1s into anot'er body and t'ere )erminates and )rows& and 'as t'ere(ore no 0art in t'e -omm*nion o( t'e di5ine and 0*re and sim0le. !'at is most tr*e& So-rates& answered Cebes. And t'is& Cebes& is t'e reason w'y t'e tr*e lo5ers o( 1nowled)e are tem0erate and bra5e4 and not (or t'e reason w'i-' t'e world )i5es. Certainly not. Certainly not> or not in t'at way does t'e so*l o( a 0'iloso0'er reason4 s'e will not as1 0'iloso0'y to release 'er in order t'at w'en released s'e may deli5er 'ersel( *0 a)ain to t'e t'raldom o( 0leas*res and 0ains& doin) a wor1 only to be *ndone a)ain& wea5in) instead o( *nwea5in) 'er Penelo0e=s web. B*t s'e will ma1e 'ersel( a -alm o( 0assion and (ollow Reason& and dwell in 'er& be'oldin) t'e tr*e and di5ine 7w'i-' is not matter o( o0inion8& and t'en-e deri5e

no*ris'ment. !'*s s'e see1s to li5e w'ile s'e li5es& and a(ter deat' s'e 'o0es to )o to 'er own 1indred and to be (reed (rom '*man ills. Ne5er (ear& Simmias and Cebes& t'at a so*l w'i-' 'as been t'*s n*rt*red and 'as 'ad t'ese 0*rs*its& will at 'er de0art*re (rom t'e body be s-attered and blown away by t'e winds and be now'ere and not'in). /'en So-rates 'ad done s0ea1in)& (or a -onsiderable time t'ere was silen-e4 'e 'imsel( and most o( *s a00eared to be meditatin) on w'at 'ad been said4 only Cebes and Simmias s0o1e a (ew words to one anot'er. And So-rates obser5in) t'is as1ed t'em w'at t'ey t'o*)'t o( t'e ar)*ment& and w'et'er t'ere was anyt'in) wantin)2 or& said 'e& m*-' is still o0en to s*s0i-ion and atta-1& i( anyone were dis0osed to si(t t'e matter t'oro*)'ly. "( yo* are tal1in) o( somet'in) else " wo*ld rat'er not interr*0t yo*& b*t i( yo* are still do*bt(*l abo*t t'e ar)*ment do not 'esitate to say e6a-tly w'at yo* t'in1& and let *s 'a5e anyt'in) better w'i-' yo* -an s*))est4 and i( " am li1ely to be o( any *se& allow me to 'el0 yo*. Simmias said, " m*st -on(ess& So-rates& t'at do*bts did arise in o*r minds& and ea-' o( *s was *r)in) and in-itin) t'e ot'er to 0*t t'e :*estion w'i-' 'e wanted to 'a5e answered and w'i-' neit'er o( *s li1ed to as1& (earin) t'at o*r im0ort*nity mi)'t be tro*blesome *nder 0resent -ir-*mstan-es. So-rates smiled and said, O Simmias& 'ow stran)e t'at is4 " am not 5ery li1ely to 0ers*ade ot'er men t'at " do not re)ard my 0resent sit*ation as a mis(ort*ne& i( " am *nable to 0ers*ade yo*& and yo* will 1ee0 (an-yin) t'at " am at all more tro*bled now t'an at any ot'er time. /ill yo* not allow t'at " 'a5e as m*-' o( t'e s0irit o( 0ro0'e-y in me as t'e swans2 or t'ey& w'en t'ey 0er-ei5e t'at t'ey m*st die& 'a5in) s*n) all t'eir li(e lon)& do t'en sin) more t'an e5er& rejoi-in) in t'e t'o*)'t t'at t'ey are abo*t to )o away to t'e )od w'ose ministers t'ey are. B*t men& be-a*se t'ey are t'emsel5es a(raid o( deat'& slandero*sly a((irm o( t'e swans t'at t'ey sin) a lament at t'e last& not -onsiderin) t'at no bird sin)s w'en -old& or '*n)ry& or in 0ain& not e5en t'e ni)'tin)ale& nor t'e swallow& nor yet t'e 'oo0oe4 w'i-' are said indeed to t*ne a lay o( sorrow& alt'o*)' " do not belie5e t'is to be tr*e o( t'em any more t'an o( t'e swans. B*t be-a*se t'ey are sa-red to A0ollo and 'a5e t'e )i(t o( 0ro0'e-y and anti-i0ate t'e )ood t'in)s o( anot'er world& t'ere(ore t'ey sin) and rejoi-e in t'at day more t'an t'ey e5er did be(ore. And "& too& belie5in) mysel( to be t'e -onse-rated ser5ant o( t'e same $od& and t'e (ellow ser5ant o( t'e swans& and t'in1in) t'at " 'a5e re-ei5ed (rom my master )i(ts o( 0ro0'e-y w'i-' are not in(erior to t'eirs& wo*ld not )o o*t o( li(e less merrily t'an t'e swans. Cease to mind t'en abo*t t'is& b*t s0ea1 and as1 anyt'in) w'i-' yo* li1e& w'ile t'e ele5en ma)istrates o( At'ens allow. /ell& So-rates& said Simmias& t'en " will tell yo* my di((i-*lty& and Cebes will tell yo* 'is. or " dare say t'at yo*& So-rates& (eel& as " do& 'ow 5ery 'ard or almost im0ossible is t'e attainment o( any -ertainty abo*t :*estions s*-' as t'ese in t'e 0resent li(e. And yet " s'o*ld deem 'im a -oward w'o did not 0ro5e w'at is said abo*t t'em to t'e *ttermost& or w'ose 'eart (ailed 'im be(ore 'e 'ad e6amined t'em on e5ery side. or 'e s'o*ld 0erse5ere *ntil 'e 'as attained one o( two t'in)s, eit'er 'e s'o*ld dis-o5er or learn t'e tr*t' abo*t t'em4 or& i( t'is is im0ossible& " wo*ld 'a5e 'im ta1e t'e best and most irre(ra)able o( '*man notions& and let t'is be t'e ra(t *0on w'i-' 'e sails t'ro*)' li(e9not wit'o*t ris1& as " admit& i( 'e -annot (ind some word o( $od w'i-' will more s*rely and sa(ely -arry 'im. And now& as yo* bid me& " will 5ent*re to :*estion yo*& as " s'o*ld not li1e to re0roa-' mysel( 'erea(ter wit' not 'a5in) said at t'e time w'at " t'in1. or w'en " -onsider t'e matter eit'er alone or wit' Cebes& t'e ar)*ment does -ertainly a00ear to me& So-rates& to be not s*((i-ient. So-rates answered, " dare say& my (riend& t'at yo* may be ri)'t& b*t " s'o*ld li1e to 1now in w'at res0e-t t'e ar)*ment is not s*((i-ient.

"n t'is res0e-t& re0lied Simmias, +i)'t not a 0erson *se t'e same ar)*ment abo*t 'armony and t'e lyre9mi)'t 'e not say t'at 'armony is a t'in) in5isible& in-or0oreal& (air& di5ine& abidin) in t'e lyre w'i-' is 'armoni@ed& b*t t'at t'e lyre and t'e strin)s are matter and material& -om0osite& eart'y& and a1in to mortality2 And w'en someone brea1s t'e lyre& or -*ts and rends t'e strin)s& t'en 'e w'o ta1es t'is 5iew wo*ld ar)*e as yo* do& and on t'e same analo)y& t'at t'e 'armony s*r5i5es and 'as not 0eris'ed4 (or yo* -annot ima)ine& as we wo*ld say& t'at t'e lyre wit'o*t t'e strin)s& and t'e bro1en strin)s t'emsel5es& remain& and yet t'at t'e 'armony& w'i-' is o( 'ea5enly and immortal nat*re and 1indred& 'as 0eris'ed9and 0eris'ed too be(ore t'e mortal. !'e 'armony& 'e wo*ld say& -ertainly e6ists somew'ere& and t'e wood and strin)s will de-ay be(ore t'at de-ays. or " s*s0e-t& So-rates& t'at t'e notion o( t'e so*l w'i-' we are all o( *s in-lined to entertain& wo*ld also be yo*rs& and t'at yo* too wo*ld -on-ei5e t'e body to be str*n) *0& and 'eld to)et'er& by t'e elements o( 'ot and -old& wet and dry& and t'e li1e& and t'at t'e so*l is t'e 'armony or d*e 0ro0ortionate admi6t*re o( t'em. And& i( t'is is tr*e& t'e in(eren-e -learly is t'at w'en t'e strin)s o( t'e body are *nd*ly loosened or o5erstrained t'ro*)' disorder or ot'er inj*ry& t'en t'e so*l& t'o*)' most di5ine& li1e ot'er 'armonies o( m*si- or o( t'e wor1s o( art& o( -o*rse 0eris'es at on-e& alt'o*)' t'e material remains o( t'e body may last (or a -onsiderable time& *ntil t'ey are eit'er de-ayed or b*rnt. Now i( anyone maintained t'at t'e so*l& bein) t'e 'armony o( t'e elements o( t'e body& (irst 0eris'es in t'at w'i-' is -alled deat'& 'ow s'all we answer 'im2 So-rates loo1ed ro*nd at *s as 'is manner was& and said& wit' a smile, Simmias 'as reason on 'is side4 and w'y does not some one o( yo* w'o is abler t'an mysel( answer 'im2 (or t'ere is (or-e in 'is atta-1 *0on me. B*t 0er'a0s& be(ore we answer 'im& we 'ad better also 'ear w'at Cebes 'as to say a)ainst t'e ar)*ment9t'is will )i5e *s time (or re(le-tion& and w'en bot' o( t'em 'a5e s0o1en& we may eit'er assent to t'em i( t'eir words a00ear to be in -onsonan-e wit' t'e tr*t'& or i( not& we may ta1e *0 t'e ot'er side& and ar)*e wit' t'em. Please to tell me t'en& Cebes& 'e said& w'at was t'e di((i-*lty w'i-' tro*bled yo*2 Cebes said, " will tell yo*. +y (eelin) is t'at t'e ar)*ment is still in t'e same 0osition& and o0en to t'e same obje-tions w'i-' were *r)ed be(ore4 (or " am ready to admit t'at t'e e6isten-e o( t'e so*l be(ore enterin) into t'e bodily (orm 'as been 5ery in)enio*sly& and& as " may be allowed to say& :*ite s*((i-iently 0ro5en4 b*t t'e e6isten-e o( t'e so*l a(ter deat' is still& in my j*d)ment& *n0ro5en. Now my obje-tion is not t'e same as t'at o( Simmias4 (or " am not dis0osed to deny t'at t'e so*l is stron)er and more lastin) t'an t'e body& bein) o( o0inion t'at in all s*-' res0e-ts t'e so*l 5ery (ar e6-els t'e body. /ell& t'en& says t'e ar)*ment to me& w'y do yo* remain *n-on5in-ed2 /'en yo* see t'at t'e wea1er is still in e6isten-e a(ter t'e man is dead& will yo* not admit t'at t'e more lastin) m*st also s*r5i5e d*rin) t'e same 0eriod o( time2 Now "& li1e Simmias& m*st em0loy a (i)*re4 and " s'all as1 yo* to -onsider w'et'er t'e (i)*re is to t'e 0oint. !'e 0arallel w'i-' " will s*00ose is t'at o( an old wea5er& w'o dies& and a(ter 'is deat' somebody says, He is not dead& 'e m*st be ali5e4 and 'e a00eals to t'e -oat w'i-' 'e 'imsel( wo5e and wore& and w'i-' is still w'ole and *nde-ayed. And t'en 'e 0ro-eeds to as1 o( someone w'o is in-red*lo*s& w'et'er a man lasts lon)er& or t'e -oat w'i-' is in *se and wear4 and w'en 'e is answered t'at a man lasts (ar lon)er& t'in1s t'at 'e 'as t'*s -ertainly demonstrated t'e s*r5i5al o( t'e man& w'o is t'e more lastin)& be-a*se t'e less lastin) remains. B*t t'at& Simmias& as " wo*ld be) yo* to obser5e& is not t'e tr*t'4 e5eryone sees t'at 'e w'o tal1s t'*s is tal1in) nonsense. or t'e tr*t' is t'at t'is wea5er& 'a5in) worn and wo5en many s*-' -oats& t'o*)' 'e o*tli5ed se5eral o( t'em& was 'imsel( o*tli5ed by t'e last4 b*t t'is is s*rely 5ery (ar (rom 0ro5in) t'at a man is

sli)'ter and wea1er t'an a -oat. Now t'e relation o( t'e body to t'e so*l may be e60ressed in a similar (i)*re4 (or yo* may say wit' reason t'at t'e so*l is lastin)& and t'e body wea1 and s'ort9li5ed in -om0arison. And e5ery so*l may be said to wear o*t many bodies& es0e-ially in t'e -o*rse o( a lon) li(e. or i( w'ile t'e man is ali5e t'e body deli:*es-es and de-ays& and yet t'e so*l always wea5es 'er )arment anew and re0airs t'e waste& t'en o( -o*rse& w'en t'e so*l 0eris'es& s'e m*st 'a5e on 'er last )arment& and t'is only will s*r5i5e 'er4 b*t t'en a)ain w'en t'e so*l is dead t'e body will at last s'ow its nati5e wea1ness& and soon 0ass into de-ay. And t'ere(ore t'is is an ar)*ment on w'i-' " wo*ld rat'er not rely as 0ro5in) t'at t'e so*l e6ists a(ter deat'. or s*00ose t'at we )rant e5en more t'an yo* a((irm as wit'in t'e ran)e o( 0ossibility& and besides a-1nowled)in) t'at t'e so*l e6isted be(ore birt' admit also t'at a(ter deat' t'e so*ls o( some are e6istin) still& and will e6ist& and will be born and die a)ain and a)ain& and t'at t'ere is a nat*ral stren)t' in t'e so*l w'i-' will 'old o*t and be born many times9(or all t'is& we may be still in-lined to t'in1 t'at s'e will weary in t'e labors o( s*--essi5e birt's& and may at last s*--*mb in one o( 'er deat's and *tterly 0eris'4 and t'is deat' and dissol*tion o( t'e body w'i-' brin)s destr*-tion to t'e so*l may be *n1nown to any o( *s& (or no one o( *s -an 'a5e 'ad any e60erien-e o( it, and i( t'is be tr*e& t'en " say t'at 'e w'o is -on(ident in deat' 'as b*t a (oolis' -on(iden-e& *nless 'e is able to 0ro5e t'at t'e so*l is alto)et'er immortal and im0eris'able. B*t i( 'e is not able to 0ro5e t'is& 'e w'o is abo*t to die will always 'a5e reason to (ear t'at w'en t'e body is dis*nited& t'e so*l also may *tterly 0eris'. All o( *s& as we a(terwards remar1ed to one anot'er& 'ad an *n0leasant (eelin) at 'earin) t'em say t'is. /'en we 'ad been so (irmly -on5in-ed be(ore& now to 'a5e o*r (ait' s'a1en seemed to introd*-e a -on(*sion and *n-ertainty& not only into t'e 0re5io*s ar)*ment& b*t into any (*t*re one4 eit'er we were not )ood j*d)es& or t'ere were no real )ro*nds o( belie(. E-'. !'ere " (eel wit' yo*9indeed " do& P'aedo& and w'en yo* were s0ea1in)& " was be)innin) to as1 mysel( t'e same :*estion, /'at ar)*ment -an " e5er tr*st a)ain2 or w'at -o*ld be more -on5in-in) t'an t'e ar)*ment o( So-rates& w'i-' 'as now (allen into dis-redit2 !'at t'e so*l is a 'armony is a do-trine w'i-' 'as always 'ad a wonder(*l attra-tion (or me& and& w'en mentioned& -ame ba-1 to me at on-e& as my own ori)inal -on5i-tion. And now " m*st be)in a)ain and (ind anot'er ar)*ment w'i-' will ass*re me t'at w'en t'e man is dead t'e so*l dies not wit' 'im. !ell me& " be)& 'ow did So-rates 0ro-eed2 Did 'e a00ear to s'are t'e *n0leasant (eelin) w'i-' yo* mention2 or did 'e re-ei5e t'e interr*0tion -almly and )i5e a s*((i-ient answer2 !ell *s& as e6a-tly as yo* -an& w'at 0assed. P'aed. O(ten& E-'e-rates& as " 'a5e admired So-rates& " ne5er admired 'im more t'an at t'at moment. !'at 'e s'o*ld be able to answer was not'in)& b*t w'at astonis'ed me was& (irst& t'e )entle and 0leasant and a00ro5in) manner in w'i-' 'e re)arded t'e words o( t'e yo*n) men& and t'en 'is :*i-1 sense o( t'e wo*nd w'i-' 'ad been in(li-ted by t'e ar)*ment& and 'is ready a00li-ation o( t'e 'ealin) art. He mi)'t be -om0ared to a )eneral rallyin) 'is de(eated and bro1en army& *r)in) t'em to (ollow 'im and ret*rn to t'e (ield o( ar)*ment. E-'. How was t'at2 P'aed. 3o* s'all 'ear& (or " was -lose to 'im on 'is ri)'t 'and& seated on a sort o( stool& and 'e on a -o*-' w'i-' was a )ood deal 'i)'er. Now 'e 'ad a way o( 0layin) wit' my 'air& and t'en 'e smoot'ed my 'ead& and 0ressed t'e 'air *0on my ne-1& and said, !o9morrow& P'aedo& " s*00ose t'at t'ese (air lo-1s o( yo*rs will be se5ered. 3es& So-rates& " s*00ose t'at t'ey will& " re0lied. Not so i( yo* will ta1e my ad5i-e. /'at s'all " do wit' t'em2 " said. !o9day& 'e re0lied& and not to9morrow& i( t'is ar)*ment dies and

-annot be bro*)'t to li(e a)ain by *s& yo* and " will bot' s'a5e o*r lo-1s4 and i( " were yo*& and -o*ld not maintain my )ro*nd a)ainst Simmias and Cebes& " wo*ld mysel( ta1e an oat'& li1e t'e Ar)i5es& not to wear 'air any more *ntil " 'ad renewed t'e -on(li-t and de(eated t'em. 3es& " said& b*t Hera-les 'imsel( is said not to be a mat-' (or two. S*mmon me t'en& 'e said& and " will be yo*r "ola*s *ntil t'e s*n )oes down. " s*mmon yo* rat'er& " said& not as Hera-les s*mmonin) "ola*s& b*t as "ola*s mi)'t s*mmon Hera-les. !'at will be all t'e same& 'e said. B*t (irst let *s ta1e -are t'at we a5oid a dan)er. And w'at is t'at2 " said. !'e dan)er o( be-omin) misolo)ists& 'e re0lied& w'i-' is one o( t'e 5ery worst t'in)s t'at -an 'a00en to *s. or as t'ere are misant'ro0ists or 'aters o( men& t'ere are also misolo)ists or 'aters o( ideas& and bot' s0rin) (rom t'e same -a*se& w'i-' is i)noran-e o( t'e world. +isant'ro0y arises (rom t'e too )reat -on(iden-e o( ine60erien-e4 yo* tr*st a man and t'in1 'im alto)et'er tr*e and )ood and (ait'(*l& and t'en in a little w'ile 'e t*rns o*t to be (alse and 1na5is'4 and t'en anot'er and anot'er& and w'en t'is 'as 'a00ened se5eral times to a man& es0e-ially wit'in t'e -ir-le o( 'is most tr*sted (riends& as 'e deems t'em& and 'e 'as o(ten :*arreled wit' t'em& 'e at last 'ates all men& and belie5es t'at no one 'as any )ood in 'im at all. " dare say t'at yo* m*st 'a5e obser5ed t'is. 3es& " said. And is not t'is dis-reditable2 !'e reason is t'at a man& 'a5in) to deal wit' ot'er men& 'as no 1nowled)e o( t'em4 (or i( 'e 'ad 1nowled)e 'e wo*ld 'a5e 1nown t'e tr*e state o( t'e -ase& t'at (ew are t'e )ood and (ew t'e e5il& and t'at t'e )reat majority are in t'e inter5al between t'em. How do yo* mean2 " said. " mean& 'e re0lied& as yo* mi)'t say o( t'e 5ery lar)e and 5ery small& t'at not'in) is more *n-ommon t'an a 5ery lar)e or a 5ery small man4 and t'is a00lies )enerally to all e6tremes& w'et'er o( )reat and small& or swi(t and slow& or (air and (o*l& or bla-1 and w'ite, and w'et'er t'e instan-es yo* sele-t be men or do)s or anyt'in) else& (ew are t'e e6tremes& b*t many are in t'e mean between t'em. Did yo* ne5er obser5e t'is2 3es& " said& " 'a5e. And do yo* not ima)ine& 'e said& t'at i( t'ere were a -om0etition o( e5il& t'e (irst in e5il wo*ld be (o*nd to be 5ery (ew2 3es& t'at is 5ery li1ely& " said. 3es& t'at is 5ery li1ely& 'e re0lied4 not t'at in t'is res0e-t ar)*ments are li1e men9t'ere " was led on by yo* to say more t'an " 'ad intended4 b*t t'e 0oint o( -om0arison was t'at w'en a sim0le man w'o 'as no s1ill in diale-ti-s belie5es an ar)*ment to be tr*e w'i-' 'e a(terwards ima)ines to be (alse& w'et'er really (alse or not& and t'en anot'er and anot'er& 'e 'as no lon)er any (ait' le(t& and )reat dis0*ters& as yo* 1now& -ome to t'in1& at last t'at t'ey 'a5e )rown to be t'e wisest o( man1ind4 (or t'ey alone 0er-ei5e t'e *tter *nso*ndness and instability o( all ar)*ments& or& indeed& o( all t'in)s& w'i-'& li1e t'e -*rrents in t'e E*ri0*s& are )oin) *0 and down in ne5er9-easin) ebb and (low. !'at is :*ite tr*e& " said. 3es& P'aedo& 'e re0lied& and 5ery melan-'oly too& i( t'ere be s*-' a t'in) as tr*t' or -ertainty or 0ower o( 1nowin) at all& t'at a man s'o*ld 'a5e li)'ted *0on some ar)*ment or ot'er w'i-' at (irst seemed tr*e and t'en t*rned o*t to be (alse& and instead o( blamin) 'imsel( and 'is own want o( wit& be-a*se 'e is annoyed& s'o*ld at last be too )lad to trans(er t'e blame (rom 'imsel( to ar)*ments in )eneral4 and (ore5er a(terwards s'o*ld 'ate and re5ile t'em& and lose t'e tr*t' and 1nowled)e o( e6isten-e. 3es& indeed& " said4 t'at is 5ery melan-'oly.

#et *s& t'en& in t'e (irst 0la-e& 'e said& be -are(*l o( admittin) into o*r so*ls t'e notion t'at t'ere is no tr*t' or 'ealt' or so*ndness in any ar)*ments at all4 b*t let *s rat'er say t'at t'ere is as yet no 'ealt' in *s& and t'at we m*st :*it o*rsel5es li1e men and do o*r best to )ain 'ealt'9yo* and all ot'er men wit' a 5iew to t'e w'ole o( yo*r (*t*re li(e& and " mysel( wit' a 5iew to deat'. or at t'is moment " am sensible t'at " 'a5e not t'e tem0er o( a 0'iloso0'er4 li1e t'e 5*l)ar& " am only a 0artisan. or t'e 0artisan& w'en 'e is en)a)ed in a dis0*te& -ares not'in) abo*t t'e ri)'ts o( t'e :*estion& b*t is an6io*s only to -on5in-e 'is 'earers o( 'is own assertions. And t'e di((eren-e between 'im and me at t'e 0resent moment is only t'is9t'at w'ereas 'e see1s to -on5in-e 'is 'earers t'at w'at 'e says is tr*e& " am rat'er see1in) to -on5in-e mysel(4 to -on5in-e my 'earers is a se-ondary matter wit' me. And do b*t see 'ow m*-' " )ain by t'is. or i( w'at " say is tr*e& t'en " do well to be 0ers*aded o( t'e tr*t'& b*t i( t'ere be not'in) a(ter deat'& still& d*rin) t'e s'ort time t'at remains& " s'all sa5e my (riends (rom lamentations& and my i)noran-e will not last& and t'ere(ore no 'arm will be done. !'is is t'e state o( mind& Simmias and Cebes& in w'i-' " a00roa-' t'e ar)*ment. And " wo*ld as1 yo* to be t'in1in) o( t'e tr*t' and not o( So-rates, a)ree wit' me& i( " seem to yo* to be s0ea1in) t'e tr*t'4 or i( not& wit'stand me mi)'t and main& t'at " may not de-ei5e yo* as well as mysel( in my ent'*siasm& and& li1e t'e bee& lea5e my stin) in yo* be(ore " die. And now let *s 0ro-eed& 'e said. And (irst o( all let me be s*re t'at " 'a5e in my mind w'at yo* were sayin). Simmias& i( " remember ri)'tly& 'as (ears and mis)i5in)s w'et'er t'e so*l& bein) in t'e (orm o( 'armony& alt'o*)' a (airer and di5iner t'in) t'an t'e body& may not 0eris' (irst. On t'e ot'er 'and& Cebes a00eared to )rant t'at t'e so*l was more lastin) t'an t'e body& b*t 'e said t'at no one -o*ld 1now w'et'er t'e so*l& a(ter 'a5in) worn o*t many bodies& mi)'t not 0eris' 'ersel( and lea5e 'er last body be'ind 'er4 and t'at t'is is deat'& w'i-' is t'e destr*-tion not o( t'e body b*t o( t'e so*l& (or in t'e body t'e wor1 o( destr*-tion is e5er )oin) on. Are not t'ese& Simmias and Cebes& t'e 0oints w'i-' we 'a5e to -onsider2 !'ey bot' a)reed to t'is statement o( t'em. He 0ro-eeded, And did yo* deny t'e (or-e o( t'e w'ole 0re-edin) ar)*ment& or o( a 0art only2 O( a 0art only& t'ey re0lied. And w'at did yo* t'in1& 'e said& o( t'at 0art o( t'e ar)*ment in w'i-' we said t'at 1nowled)e was re-olle-tion only& and in(erred (rom t'is t'at t'e so*l m*st 'a5e 0re5io*sly e6isted somew'ere else be(ore s'e was en-losed in t'e body2 Cebes said t'at 'e 'ad been wonder(*lly im0ressed by t'at 0art o( t'e ar)*ment& and t'at 'is -on5i-tion remained *ns'a1en. Simmias a)reed& and added t'at 'e 'imsel( -o*ld 'ardly ima)ine t'e 0ossibility o( 'is e5er t'in1in) di((erently abo*t t'at. B*t& rejoined So-rates& yo* will 'a5e to t'in1 di((erently& my !'eban (riend& i( yo* still maintain t'at 'armony is a -om0o*nd& and t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony w'i-' is made o*t o( strin)s set in t'e (rame o( t'e body4 (or yo* will s*rely ne5er allow yo*rsel( to say t'at a 'armony is 0rior to t'e elements w'i-' -om0ose t'e 'armony. No& So-rates& t'at is im0ossible. B*t do yo* not see t'at yo* are sayin) t'is w'en yo* say t'at t'e so*l e6isted be(ore s'e too1 t'e (orm and body o( man& and was made *0 o( elements w'i-' as yet 'ad no e6isten-e2 or 'armony is not a sort o( t'in) li1e t'e so*l& as yo* s*00ose4 b*t (irst t'e lyre& and t'e strin)s& and t'e so*nds e6ist in a state o( dis-ord& and t'en 'armony is made last o( all& and 0eris'es (irst. And 'ow -an s*-' a notion o( t'e so*l as t'is a)ree wit' t'e ot'er2 Not at all& re0lied Simmias. And yet& 'e said& t'ere s*rely o*)'t to be 'armony w'en 'armony is t'e t'eme o( dis-o*rse.

!'ere o*)'t& re0lied Simmias. B*t t'ere is no 'armony& 'e said& in t'e two 0ro0ositions t'at 1nowled)e is re-olle-tion& and t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony. /'i-' o( t'em& t'en& will yo* retain2 " t'in1& 'e re0lied& t'at " 'a5e a m*-' stron)er (ait'& So-rates& in t'e (irst o( t'e two& w'i-' 'as been (*lly demonstrated to me& t'an in t'e latter& w'i-' 'as not been demonstrated at all& b*t rests only on 0robable and 0la*sible )ro*nds4 and " 1now too well t'at t'ese ar)*ments (rom 0robabilities are im0ostors& and *nless )reat -a*tion is obser5ed in t'e *se o( t'em t'ey are a0t to be de-e0ti5e9in )eometry& and in ot'er t'in)s too. B*t t'e do-trine o( 1nowled)e and re-olle-tion 'as been 0ro5en to me on tr*stwort'y )ro*nds4 and t'e 0roo( was t'at t'e so*l m*st 'a5e e6isted be(ore s'e -ame into t'e body& be-a*se to 'er belon)s t'e essen-e o( w'i-' t'e 5ery name im0lies e6isten-e. Ha5in)& as " am -on5in-ed& ri)'tly a--e0ted t'is -on-l*sion& and on s*((i-ient )ro*nds& " m*st& as " s*00ose& -ease to ar)*e or allow ot'ers to ar)*e t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony. #et me 0*t t'e matter& Simmias& 'e said& in anot'er 0oint o( 5iew, Do yo* ima)ine t'at a 'armony or any ot'er -om0osition -an be in a state ot'er t'an t'at o( t'e elements o*t o( w'i-' it is -om0o*nded2 Certainly not. Or do or s*((er anyt'in) ot'er t'an t'ey do or s*((er2 He a)reed. !'en a 'armony does not lead t'e 0arts or elements w'i-' ma1e *0 t'e 'armony& b*t only (ollows t'em. He assented. or 'armony -annot 0ossibly 'a5e any motion& or so*nd& or ot'er :*ality w'i-' is o00osed to t'e 0arts. !'at wo*ld be im0ossible& 'e re0lied. And does not e5ery 'armony de0end *0on t'e manner in w'i-' t'e elements are 'armoni@ed2 " do not *nderstand yo*& 'e said. " mean to say t'at a 'armony admits o( de)rees& and is more o( a 'armony& and more -om0letely a 'armony& w'en more -om0letely 'armoni@ed& i( t'at be 0ossible4 and less o( a 'armony& and less -om0letely a 'armony& w'en less 'armoni@ed. !r*e. B*t does t'e so*l admit o( de)rees2 or is one so*l in t'e 5ery least de)ree more or less& or more or less -om0letely& a so*l t'an anot'er2 Not in t'e least. 3et s*rely one so*l is said to 'a5e intelli)en-e and 5irt*e& and to be )ood& and anot'er so*l is said to 'a5e (olly and 5i-e& and to be an e5il so*l, and t'is is said tr*ly2 3es& tr*ly. B*t w'at will t'ose w'o maintain t'e so*l to be a 'armony say o( t'is 0resen-e o( 5irt*e and 5i-e in t'e so*l29/ill t'ey say t'at t'ere is anot'er 'armony& and anot'er dis-ord& and t'at t'e 5irt*o*s so*l is 'armoni@ed& and 'ersel( bein) a 'armony 'as anot'er 'armony wit'in 'er& and t'at t'e 5i-io*s so*l is in'armoni-al and 'as no 'armony wit'in 'er2 " -annot say& re0lied Simmias4 b*t " s*00ose t'at somet'in) o( t'at 1ind wo*ld be asserted by t'ose w'o ta1e t'is 5iew. And t'e admission is already made t'at no so*l is more a so*l t'an anot'er4 and t'is is e:*i5alent to admittin) t'at 'armony is not more or less 'armony& or more or less -om0letely a 'armony2 A*ite tr*e. And t'at w'i-' is not more or less a 'armony is not more or less 'armoni@ed2 !r*e. And t'at w'i-' is not more or less 'armoni@ed -annot 'a5e more or less o( 'armony& b*t only an e:*al 'armony2 3es& an e:*al 'armony. !'en one so*l not bein) more or less absol*tely a so*l t'an anot'er& is not more or less 'armoni@ed2

E6a-tly. And t'ere(ore 'as neit'er more nor less o( 'armony or o( dis-ord2 S'e 'as not. And 'a5in) neit'er more nor less o( 'armony or o( dis-ord& one so*l 'as no more 5i-e or 5irt*e t'an anot'er& i( 5i-e be dis-ord and 5irt*e 'armony2 Not at all more. Or s0ea1in) more -orre-tly& Simmias& t'e so*l& i( s'e is a 'armony& will ne5er 'a5e any 5i-e4 be-a*se a 'armony& bein) absol*tely a 'armony& 'as no 0art in t'e in'armoni-al2 No. And t'ere(ore a so*l w'i-' is absol*tely a so*l 'as no 5i-e2 How -an s'e 'a5e& -onsistently wit' t'e 0re-edin) ar)*ment2 !'en& a--ordin) to t'is& i( t'e so*ls o( all animals are e:*ally and absol*tely so*ls& t'ey will be e:*ally )ood2 " a)ree wit' yo*& So-rates& 'e said. And -an all t'is be tr*e& t'in1 yo*2 'e said4 and are all t'ese -onse:*en-es admissible9w'i-' ne5ert'eless seem to (ollow (rom t'e ass*m0tion t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony2 Certainly not& 'e said. On-e more& 'e said& w'at r*lin) 0rin-i0le is t'ere o( '*man t'in)s ot'er t'an t'e so*l& and es0e-ially t'e wise so*l2 Do yo* 1now o( any2 "ndeed& " do not. And is t'e so*l in a)reement wit' t'e a((e-tions o( t'e body2 or is s'e at 5arian-e wit' t'em2 or e6am0le& w'en t'e body is 'ot and t'irsty& does not t'e so*l in-line *s a)ainst drin1in)2 and w'en t'e body is '*n)ry& a)ainst eatin)2 And t'is is only one instan-e o*t o( ten t'o*sand o( t'e o00osition o( t'e so*l to t'e t'in)s o( t'e body. ?ery tr*e. B*t we 'a5e already a-1nowled)ed t'at t'e so*l& bein) a 'armony& -an ne5er *tter a note at 5arian-e wit' t'e tensions and rela6ations and 5ibrations and ot'er a((e-tions o( t'e strin)s o*t o( w'i-' s'e is -om0osed4 s'e -an only (ollow& s'e -annot lead t'em2 3es& 'e said& we a-1nowled)ed t'at& -ertainly. And yet do we not now dis-o5er t'e so*l to be doin) t'e e6a-t o00osite9leadin) t'e elements o( w'i-' s'e is belie5ed to be -om0osed4 almost always o00osin) and -oer-in) t'em in all sorts o( ways t'ro*)'o*t li(e& sometimes more 5iolently wit' t'e 0ains o( medi-ine and )ymnasti-4 t'en a)ain more )ently4 t'reatenin) and also re0rimandin) t'e desires& 0assions& (ears& as i( tal1in) to a t'in) w'i-' is not 'ersel(& as Homer in t'e ;Odyssey; re0resents Odysse*s doin) in t'e words& ;He beat 'is breast& and t'*s re0roa-'ed 'is 'eart, End*re& my 'eart4 (ar worse 'ast t'o* end*red>; Do yo* t'in1 t'at Homer -o*ld 'a5e written t'is *nder t'e idea t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony -a0able o( bein) led by t'e a((e-tions o( t'e body& and not rat'er o( a nat*re w'i-' leads and masters t'em4 and 'ersel( a (ar di5iner t'in) t'an any 'armony2 3es& So-rates& " :*ite a)ree to t'at. !'en& my (riend& we -an ne5er be ri)'t in sayin) t'at t'e so*l is a 'armony& (or t'at wo*ld -learly -ontradi-t t'e di5ine Homer as well as o*rsel5es. !r*e& 'e said. !'*s m*-'& said So-rates& o( Harmonia& yo*r !'eban )oddess& Cebes& w'o 'as not been *n)ra-io*s to *s& " t'in14 b*t w'at s'all " say to t'e !'eban Cadm*s& and 'ow s'all " 0ro0itiate 'im2 " t'in1 t'at yo* will dis-o5er a way o( 0ro0itiatin) 'im& said Cebes4 " am s*re t'at yo* 'a5e answered t'e ar)*ment abo*t 'armony in a manner t'at " -o*ld ne5er 'a5e e60e-ted. or w'en Simmias mentioned 'is obje-tion& " :*ite ima)ined t'at no answer -o*ld be )i5en to 'im& and t'ere(ore " was s*r0rised at (indin) t'at 'is ar)*ment -o*ld not s*stain t'e (irst onset o( yo*rs4 and not

im0ossibly t'e ot'er& w'om yo* -all Cadm*s& may s'are a similar (ate. Nay& my )ood (riend& said So-rates& let *s not boast& lest some e5il eye s'o*ld 0*t to (li)'t t'e word w'i-' " am abo*t to s0ea1. !'at& 'owe5er& may be le(t in t'e 'ands o( t'ose abo5e& w'ile " draw near in Homeri- (as'ion& and try t'e mettle o( yo*r words. Brie(ly& t'e s*m o( yo*r obje-tion is as (ollows, 3o* want to 'a5e 0ro5en to yo* t'at t'e so*l is im0eris'able and immortal& and yo* t'in1 t'at t'e 0'iloso0'er w'o is -on(ident in deat' 'as b*t a 5ain and (oolis' -on(iden-e& i( 'e t'in1s t'at 'e will (are better t'an one w'o 'as led anot'er sort o( li(e& in t'e world below& *nless 'e -an 0ro5e t'is4 and yo* say t'at t'e demonstration o( t'e stren)t' and di5inity o( t'e so*l& and o( 'er e6isten-e 0rior to o*r be-omin) men& does not ne-essarily im0ly 'er immortality. $rantin) t'at t'e so*l is lon)li5ed& and 'as 1nown and done m*-' in a (ormer state& still s'e is not on t'at a--o*nt immortal4 and 'er entran-e into t'e '*man (orm may be a sort o( disease w'i-' is t'e be)innin) o( dissol*tion& and may at last& a(ter t'e toils o( li(e are o5er& end in t'at w'i-' is -alled deat'. And w'et'er t'e so*l enters into t'e body on-e only or many times& t'at& as yo* wo*ld say& ma1es no di((eren-e in t'e (ears o( indi5id*als. or any man& w'o is not de5oid o( nat*ral (eelin)& 'as reason to (ear& i( 'e 'as no 1nowled)e or 0roo( o( t'e so*l=s immortality. !'at is w'at " s*00ose yo* to say& Cebes& w'i-' " desi)nedly re0eat& in order t'at not'in) may es-a0e *s& and t'at yo* may& i( yo* wis'& add or s*btra-t anyt'in). B*t& said Cebes& as (ar as " -an see at 0resent& " 'a5e not'in) to add or s*btra-t4 yo* 'a5e e60ressed my meanin). So-rates 0a*sed aw'ile& and seemed to be absorbed in re(le-tion. At len)t' 'e said, !'is is a 5ery serio*s in:*iry w'i-' yo* are raisin)& Cebes& in5ol5in) t'e w'ole :*estion o( )eneration and -orr*0tion& abo*t w'i-' " will& i( yo* li1e& )i5e yo* my own e60erien-e4 and yo* -an a00ly t'is& i( yo* t'in1 t'at anyt'in) w'i-' " say will a5ail towards t'e sol*tion o( yo*r di((i-*lty. " s'o*ld 5ery m*-' li1e& said Cebes& to 'ear w'at yo* 'a5e to say. !'en " will tell yo*& said So-rates. /'en " was yo*n)& Cebes& " 'ad a 0rodi)io*s desire to 1now t'at de0artment o( 0'iloso0'y w'i-' is -alled Nat*ral S-ien-e4 t'is a00eared to me to 'a5e lo(ty aims& as bein) t'e s-ien-e w'i-' 'as to do wit' t'e -a*ses o( t'in)s& and w'i-' tea-'es w'y a t'in) is& and is -reated and destroyed4 and " was always a)itatin) mysel( wit' t'e -onsideration o( s*-' :*estions as t'ese, "s t'e )rowt' o( animals t'e res*lt o( some de-ay w'i-' t'e 'ot and -old 0rin-i0le -ontra-ts& as some 'a5e said2 "s t'e blood t'e element wit' w'i-' we t'in1& or t'e air& or t'e (ire2 or 0er'a0s not'in) o( t'is sort9b*t t'e brain may be t'e ori)inatin) 0ower o( t'e 0er-e0tions o( 'earin) and si)'t and smell& and memory and o0inion may -ome (rom t'em& and s-ien-e may be based on memory and o0inion w'en no lon)er in motion& b*t at rest. And t'en " went on to e6amine t'e de-ay o( t'em& and t'en to t'e t'in)s o( 'ea5en and eart'& and at last " -on-l*ded t'at " was w'olly in-a0able o( t'ese in:*iries& as " will satis(a-torily 0ro5e to yo*. or " was (as-inated by t'em to s*-' a de)ree t'at my eyes )rew blind to t'in)s t'at " 'ad seemed to mysel(& and also to ot'ers& to 1now :*ite well4 and " (or)ot w'at " 'ad be(ore t'o*)'t to be sel(9e5ident& t'at t'e )rowt' o( man is t'e res*lt o( eatin) and drin1in)4 (or w'en by t'e di)estion o( (ood (les' is added to (les' and bone to bone& and w'ene5er t'ere is an a))re)ation o( -on)enial elements& t'e lesser b*l1 be-omes lar)er and t'e small man )reater. /as not t'at a reasonable notion2 3es& said Cebes& " t'in1 so. /ell4 b*t let me tell yo* somet'in) more. !'ere was a time w'en " t'o*)'t t'at " *nderstood t'e meanin) o( )reater and less 0retty well4 and w'en " saw a )reat man standin) by a little one " (an-ied t'at one was taller t'an t'e ot'er by a 'ead4 or one 'orse wo*ld a00ear to be )reater t'an anot'er 'orse, and still more -learly did " seem to 0er-ei5e t'at ten is two more t'an ei)'t& and t'at two -*bits are more t'an one& be-a*se two is twi-e one.

And w'at is now yo*r notion o( s*-' matters2 said Cebes. " s'o*ld be (ar eno*)' (rom ima)inin)& 'e re0lied& t'at " 1new t'e -a*se o( any o( t'em& indeed " s'o*ld& (or " -annot satis(y mysel( t'at w'en one is added to one& t'e one to w'i-' t'e addition is made be-omes two& or t'at t'e two *nits added to)et'er ma1e two by reason o( t'e addition. or " -annot *nderstand 'ow& w'en se0arated (rom t'e ot'er& ea-' o( t'em was one and not two& and now& w'en t'ey are bro*)'t to)et'er& t'e mere j*6ta0osition o( t'em -an be t'e -a*se o( t'eir be-omin) two, nor -an " *nderstand 'ow t'e di5ision o( one is t'e way to ma1e two4 (or t'en a di((erent -a*se wo*ld 0rod*-e t'e same e((e-t9as in t'e (ormer instan-e t'e addition and j*6ta0osition o( one to one was t'e -a*se o( two& in t'is t'e se0aration and s*btra-tion o( one (rom t'e ot'er wo*ld be t'e -a*se. Nor am " any lon)er satis(ied t'at " *nderstand t'e reason w'y one or anyt'in) else eit'er is )enerated or destroyed or is at all& b*t " 'a5e in my mind some -on(*sed notion o( anot'er met'od& and -an ne5er admit t'is. !'en " 'eard someone w'o 'ad a boo1 o( Ana6a)oras& as 'e said& o*t o( w'i-' 'e read t'at mind was t'e dis0oser and -a*se o( all& and " was :*ite deli)'ted at t'e notion o( t'is& w'i-' a00eared admirable& and " said to mysel(, "( mind is t'e dis0oser& mind will dis0ose all (or t'e best& and 0*t ea-' 0arti-*lar in t'e best 0la-e4 and " ar)*ed t'at i( anyone desired to (ind o*t t'e -a*se o( t'e )eneration or destr*-tion or e6isten-e o( anyt'in)& 'e m*st (ind o*t w'at state o( bein) or s*((erin) or doin) was best (or t'at t'in)& and t'ere(ore a man 'ad only to -onsider t'e best (or 'imsel( and ot'ers& and t'en 'e wo*ld also 1now t'e worse& (or t'at t'e same s-ien-e -om0rised bot'. And " rejoi-ed to t'in1 t'at " 'ad (o*nd in Ana6a)oras a tea-'er o( t'e -a*ses o( e6isten-e s*-' as " desired& and " ima)ined t'at 'e wo*ld tell me (irst w'et'er t'e eart' is (lat or ro*nd4 and t'en 'e wo*ld (*rt'er e60lain t'e -a*se and t'e ne-essity o( t'is& and wo*ld tea-' me t'e nat*re o( t'e best and s'ow t'at t'is was best4 and i( 'e said t'at t'e eart' was in t'e -entre& 'e wo*ld e60lain t'at t'is 0osition was t'e best& and " s'o*ld be satis(ied i( t'is were s'own to me& and not want any ot'er sort o( -a*se. And " t'o*)'t t'at " wo*ld t'en )o and as1 'im abo*t t'e s*n and moon and stars& and t'at 'e wo*ld e60lain to me t'eir -om0arati5e swi(tness& and t'eir ret*rnin)s and 5ario*s states& and 'ow t'eir se5eral a((e-tions& a-ti5e and 0assi5e& were all (or t'e best. or " -o*ld not ima)ine t'at w'en 'e s0o1e o( mind as t'e dis0oser o( t'em& 'e wo*ld )i5e any ot'er a--o*nt o( t'eir bein) as t'ey are& e6-e0t t'at t'is was best4 and " t'o*)'t w'en 'e 'ad e60lained to me in detail t'e -a*se o( ea-' and t'e -a*se o( all& 'e wo*ld )o on to e60lain to me w'at was best (or ea-' and w'at was best (or all. " 'ad 'o0es w'i-' " wo*ld not 'a5e sold (or m*-'& and " sei@ed t'e boo1s and read t'em as (ast as " -o*ld in my ea)erness to 1now t'e better and t'e worse. /'at 'o0es " 'ad (ormed& and 'ow )rie5o*sly was " disa00ointed> As " 0ro-eeded& " (o*nd my 0'iloso0'er alto)et'er (orsa1in) mind or any ot'er 0rin-i0le o( order& b*t 'a5in) re-o*rse to air& and et'er& and water& and ot'er e--entri-ities. " mi)'t -om0are 'im to a 0erson w'o be)an by maintainin) )enerally t'at mind is t'e -a*se o( t'e a-tions o( So-rates& b*t w'o& w'en 'e endea5ored to e60lain t'e -a*ses o( my se5eral a-tions in detail& went on to s'ow t'at " sit 'ere be-a*se my body is made *0 o( bones and m*s-les4 and t'e bones& as 'e wo*ld say& are 'ard and 'a5e li)aments w'i-' di5ide t'em& and t'e m*s-les are elasti-& and t'ey -o5er t'e bones& w'i-' 'a5e also a -o5erin) or en5ironment o( (les' and s1in w'i-' -ontains t'em4 and as t'e bones are li(ted at t'eir joints by t'e -ontra-tion or rela6ation o( t'e m*s-les& " am able to bend my limbs& and t'is is w'y " am sittin) 'ere in a -*r5ed 0ost*re, t'at is w'at 'e wo*ld say& and 'e wo*ld 'a5e a similar e60lanation o( my tal1in) to yo*& w'i-' 'e wo*ld attrib*te to so*nd& and air& and 'earin)& and 'e wo*ld assi)n ten t'o*sand ot'er -a*ses o( t'e same sort& (or)ettin) to mention t'e tr*e -a*se& w'i-' is t'at t'e At'enians 'a5e t'o*)'t (it to -ondemn me& and

a--ordin)ly " 'a5e t'o*)'t it better and more ri)'t to remain 'ere and *nder)o my senten-e4 (or " am in-lined to t'in1 t'at t'ese m*s-les and bones o( mine wo*ld 'a5e )one o(( to +e)ara or Boeotia9by t'e do) o( E)y0t t'ey wo*ld& i( t'ey 'ad been )*ided only by t'eir own idea o( w'at was best& and i( " 'ad not -'osen as t'e better and nobler 0art& instead o( 0layin) tr*ant and r*nnin) away& to *nder)o any 0*nis'ment w'i-' t'e State in(li-ts. !'ere is s*rely a stran)e -on(*sion o( -a*ses and -onditions in all t'is. "t may be said& indeed& t'at wit'o*t bones and m*s-les and t'e ot'er 0arts o( t'e body " -annot e6e-*te my 0*r0oses. B*t to say t'at " do as " do be-a*se o( t'em& and t'at t'is is t'e way in w'i-' mind a-ts& and not (rom t'e -'oi-e o( t'e best& is a 5ery -areless and idle mode o( s0ea1in). " wonder t'at t'ey -annot distin)*is' t'e -a*se (rom t'e -ondition& w'i-' t'e many& (eelin) abo*t in t'e dar1& are always mista1in) and misnamin). And t'*s one man ma1es a 5orte6 all ro*nd and steadies t'e eart' by t'e 'ea5en4 anot'er )i5es t'e air as a s*00ort to t'e eart'& w'i-' is a sort o( broad tro*)'. Any 0ower w'i-' in dis0osin) t'em as t'ey are dis0oses t'em (or t'e best ne5er enters into t'eir minds& nor do t'ey ima)ine t'at t'ere is any s*0er'*man stren)t' in t'at4 t'ey rat'er e60e-t to (ind anot'er Atlas o( t'e world w'o is stron)er and more e5erlastin) and more -ontainin) t'an t'e )ood is& and are -learly o( o0inion t'at t'e obli)atory and -ontainin) 0ower o( t'e )ood is as not'in)4 and yet t'is is t'e 0rin-i0le w'i-' " wo*ld (ain learn i( anyone wo*ld tea-' me. B*t as " 'a5e (ailed eit'er to dis-o5er mysel( or to learn o( anyone else& t'e nat*re o( t'e best& " will e6'ibit to yo*& i( yo* li1e& w'at " 'a5e (o*nd to be t'e se-ond best mode o( in:*irin) into t'e -a*se. " s'o*ld 5ery m*-' li1e to 'ear t'at& 'e re0lied. So-rates 0ro-eeded, " t'o*)'t t'at as " 'ad (ailed in t'e -ontem0lation o( tr*e e6isten-e& " o*)'t to be -are(*l t'at " did not lose t'e eye o( my so*l4 as 0eo0le may inj*re t'eir bodily eye by obser5in) and )a@in) on t'e s*n d*rin) an e-li0se& *nless t'ey ta1e t'e 0re-a*tion o( only loo1in) at t'e ima)e re(le-ted in t'e water& or in some similar medi*m. !'at o--*rred to me& and " was a(raid t'at my so*l mi)'t be blinded alto)et'er i( " loo1ed at t'in)s wit' my eyes or tried by t'e 'el0 o( t'e senses to a00re'end t'em. And " t'o*)'t t'at " 'ad better 'a5e re-o*rse to ideas& and see1 in t'em t'e tr*t' o( e6isten-e. " dare say t'at t'e simile is not 0er(e-t9(or " am 5ery (ar (rom admittin) t'at 'e w'o -ontem0lates e6isten-e t'ro*)' t'e medi*m o( ideas& sees t'em only ;t'ro*)' a )lass dar1ly&; any more t'an 'e w'o sees t'em in t'eir wor1in) and e((e-ts. Howe5er& t'is was t'e met'od w'i-' " ado0ted, " (irst ass*med some 0rin-i0le w'i-' " j*d)ed to be t'e stron)est& and t'en " a((irmed as tr*e w'ate5er seemed to a)ree wit' t'is& w'et'er relatin) to t'e -a*se or to anyt'in) else4 and t'at w'i-' disa)reed " re)arded as *ntr*e. B*t " s'o*ld li1e to e60lain my meanin) -learly& as " do not t'in1 t'at yo* *nderstand me. No& indeed& re0lied Cebes& not 5ery well. !'ere is not'in) new& 'e said& in w'at " am abo*t to tell yo*4 b*t only w'at " 'a5e been always and e5eryw'ere re0eatin) in t'e 0re5io*s dis-*ssion and on ot'er o--asions, " want to s'ow yo* t'e nat*re o( t'at -a*se w'i-' 'as o--*0ied my t'o*)'ts& and " s'all 'a5e to )o ba-1 to t'ose (amiliar words w'i-' are in t'e mo*t' o( e5eryone& and (irst o( all ass*me t'at t'ere is an absol*te bea*ty and )oodness and )reatness& and t'e li1e4 )rant me t'is& and " 'o0e to be able to s'ow yo* t'e nat*re o( t'e -a*se& and to 0ro5e t'e immortality o( t'e so*l. Cebes said, 3o* may 0ro-eed at on-e wit' t'e 0roo(& as " readily )rant yo* t'is. /ell& 'e said& t'en " s'o*ld li1e to 1now w'et'er yo* a)ree wit' me in t'e ne6t ste04 (or " -annot 'el0 t'in1in) t'at i( t'ere be anyt'in) bea*ti(*l ot'er t'an absol*te bea*ty& t'at -an only be bea*ti(*l in as (ar as it 0arta1es o( absol*te bea*ty9and t'is " s'o*ld say o( e5eryt'in). Do yo* a)ree in t'is notion o( t'e -a*se2

3es& 'e said& " a)ree. He 0ro-eeded, " 1now not'in) and -an *nderstand not'in) o( any ot'er o( t'ose wise -a*ses w'i-' are alle)ed4 and i( a 0erson says to me t'at t'e bloom o( -olor& or (orm& or anyt'in) else o( t'at sort is a so*r-e o( bea*ty& " lea5e all t'at& w'i-' is only -on(*sin) to me& and sim0ly and sin)ly& and 0er'a0s (oolis'ly& 'old and am ass*red in my own mind t'at not'in) ma1es a t'in) bea*ti(*l b*t t'e 0resen-e and 0arti-i0ation o( bea*ty in w'ate5er way or manner obtained4 (or as to t'e manner " am *n-ertain& b*t " sto*tly -ontend t'at by bea*ty all bea*ti(*l t'in)s be-ome bea*ti(*l. !'at a00ears to me to be t'e only sa(e answer t'at " -an )i5e& eit'er to mysel( or to any ot'er& and to t'at " -lin)& in t'e 0ers*asion t'at " s'all ne5er be o5ert'rown& and t'at " may sa(ely answer to mysel( or any ot'er t'at by bea*ty bea*ti(*l t'in)s be-ome bea*ti(*l. Do yo* not a)ree to t'at2 3es& " a)ree. And t'at by )reatness only )reat t'in)s be-ome )reat and )reater )reater& and by smallness t'e less be-omes less. !r*e. !'en i( a 0erson remar1s t'at A is taller by a 'ead t'an B& and B less by a 'ead t'an A& yo* wo*ld re(*se to admit t'is& and wo*ld sto*tly -ontend t'at w'at yo* mean is only t'at t'e )reater is )reater by& and by reason o(& )reatness& and t'e less is less only by& or by reason o(& smallness4 and t'*s yo* wo*ld a5oid t'e dan)er o( sayin) t'at t'e )reater is )reater and t'e less by t'e meas*re o( t'e 'ead& w'i-' is t'e same in bot'& and wo*ld also a5oid t'e monstro*s abs*rdity o( s*00osin) t'at t'e )reater man is )reater by reason o( t'e 'ead& w'i-' is small. /o*ld yo* not be a(raid o( t'at2 "ndeed& " s'o*ld& said Cebes& la*)'in). "n li1e manner yo* wo*ld be a(raid to say t'at ten e6-eeded ei)'t by& and by reason o(& two4 b*t wo*ld say by& and by reason o(& n*mber4 or t'at two -*bits e6-eed one -*bit not by a 'al(& b*t by ma)nit*de29t'at is w'at yo* wo*ld say& (or t'ere is t'e same dan)er in bot' -ases. ?ery tr*e& 'e said. A)ain& wo*ld yo* not be -a*tio*s o( a((irmin) t'at t'e addition o( one to one& or t'e di5ision o( one& is t'e -a*se o( two2 And yo* wo*ld lo*dly asse5erate t'at yo* 1now o( no way in w'i-' anyt'in) -omes into e6isten-e e6-e0t by 0arti-i0ation in its own 0ro0er essen-e& and -onse:*ently& as (ar as yo* 1now& t'e only -a*se o( two is t'e 0arti-i0ation in d*ality4 t'at is t'e way to ma1e two& and t'e 0arti-i0ation in one is t'e way to ma1e one. 3o* wo*ld say, " will let alone 0*@@les o( di5ision and addition9wiser 'eads t'an mine may answer t'em4 ine60erien-ed as " am& and ready to start& as t'e 0ro5erb says& at my own s'adow& " -annot a((ord to )i5e *0 t'e s*re )ro*nd o( a 0rin-i0le. And i( anyone assails yo* t'ere& yo* wo*ld not mind 'im& or answer 'im *ntil yo* 'ad seen w'et'er t'e -onse:*en-es w'i-' (ollow a)ree wit' one anot'er or not& and w'en yo* are (*rt'er re:*ired to )i5e an e60lanation o( t'is 0rin-i0le& yo* wo*ld )o on to ass*me a 'i)'er 0rin-i0le& and t'e best o( t'e 'i)'er ones& *ntil yo* (o*nd a restin)90la-e4 b*t yo* wo*ld not re(*se t'e 0rin-i0le and t'e -onse:*en-es in yo*r reasonin) li1e t'e Eristi-s9at least i( yo* wanted to dis-o5er real e6isten-e. Not t'at t'is -on(*sion si)ni(ies to t'em w'o ne5er -are or t'in1 abo*t t'e matter at all& (or t'ey 'a5e t'e wit to be well 0leased wit' t'emsel5es& 'owe5er )reat may be t'e t*rmoil o( t'eir ideas. B*t yo*& i( yo* are a 0'iloso0'er& will& " belie5e& do as " say. /'at yo* say is most tr*e& said Simmias and Cebes& bot' s0ea1in) at on-e. E-'. 3es& P'aedo4 and " don=t wonder at t'eir assentin). Anyone w'o 'as t'e least sense will a-1nowled)e t'e wonder(*l -lear. o( So-rates= reasonin). P'aed. Certainly& E-'e-rates4 and t'at was t'e (eelin) o( t'e w'ole -om0any at t'e time. E-'. 3es& and e:*ally o( o*rsel5es& w'o were not o( t'e -om0any& and

are now listenin) to yo*r re-ital. B*t w'at (ollowed2 P'aedo. A(ter all t'is was admitted& and t'ey 'ad a)reed abo*t t'e e6isten-e o( ideas and t'e 0arti-i0ation in t'em o( t'e ot'er t'in)s w'i-' deri5e t'eir names (rom t'em& So-rates& i( " remember ri)'tly& said,9 !'is is yo*r way o( s0ea1in)4 and yet w'en yo* say t'at Simmias is )reater t'an So-rates and less t'an P'aedo& do yo* not 0redi-ate o( Simmias bot' )reatness and smallness2 3es& " do. B*t still yo* allow t'at Simmias does not really e6-eed So-rates& as t'e words may seem to im0ly& be-a*se 'e is Simmias& b*t by reason o( t'e si@e w'i-' 'e 'as4 j*st as Simmias does not e6-eed So-rates be-a*se 'e is Simmias& any more t'an be-a*se So-rates is So-rates& b*t be-a*se 'e 'as smallness w'en -om0ared wit' t'e )reatness o( Simmias2 !r*e. And i( P'aedo e6-eeds 'im in si@e& t'at is not be-a*se P'aedo is P'aedo& b*t be-a*se P'aedo 'as )reatness relati5ely to Simmias& w'o is -om0arati5ely smaller2 !'at is tr*e. And t'ere(ore Simmias is said to be )reat& and is also said to be small& be-a*se 'e is in a mean between t'em& e6-eedin) t'e smallness o( t'e one by 'is )reatness& and allowin) t'e )reatness o( t'e ot'er to e6-eed 'is smallness. He added& la*)'in)& " am s0ea1in) li1e a boo1& b*t " belie5e t'at w'at " am now sayin) is tr*e. Simmias assented to t'is. !'e reason w'y " say t'is is t'at " want yo* to a)ree wit' me in t'in1in)& not only t'at absol*te )reatness will ne5er be )reat and also small& b*t t'at )reatness in *s or in t'e -on-rete will ne5er admit t'e small or admit o( bein) e6-eeded, instead o( t'is& one o( two t'in)s will 'a00en9eit'er t'e )reater will (ly or retire be(ore t'e o00osite& w'i-' is t'e less& or at t'e ad5an-e o( t'e less will -ease to e6ist4 b*t will not& i( allowin) or admittin) smallness& be -'an)ed by t'at4 e5en as "& 'a5in) re-ei5ed and admitted smallness w'en -om0ared wit' Simmias& remain j*st as " was& and am t'e same small 0erson. And as t'e idea o( )reatness -annot -ondes-end e5er to be or be-ome small& in li1e manner t'e smallness in *s -annot be or be-ome )reat4 nor -an any ot'er o00osite w'i-' remains t'e same e5er be or be-ome its own o00osite& b*t eit'er 0asses away or 0eris'es in t'e -'an)e. !'at& re0lied Cebes& is :*ite my notion. One o( t'e -om0any& t'o*)' " do not e6a-tly remember w'i-' o( t'em& on 'earin) t'is& said, By Hea5en& is not t'is t'e dire-t -ontrary o( w'at was admitted be(ore9t'at o*t o( t'e )reater -ame t'e less and o*t o( t'e less t'e )reater& and t'at o00osites are sim0ly )enerated (rom o00osites4 w'ereas now t'is seems to be *tterly denied. So-rates in-lined 'is 'ead to t'e s0ea1er and listened. " li1e yo*r -o*ra)e& 'e said& in remindin) *s o( t'is. B*t yo* do not obser5e t'at t'ere is a di((eren-e in t'e two -ases. or t'en we were s0ea1in) o( o00osites in t'e -on-rete& and now o( t'e essential o00osite w'i-'& as is a((irmed& neit'er in *s nor in nat*re -an e5er be at 5arian-e wit' itsel(, t'en& my (riend& we were s0ea1in) o( t'in)s in w'i-' o00osites are in'erent and w'i-' are -alled a(ter t'em& b*t now abo*t t'e o00osites w'i-' are in'erent in t'em and w'i-' )i5e t'eir name to t'em4 t'ese essential o00osites will ne5er& as we maintain& admit o( )eneration into or o*t o( one anot'er. At t'e same time& t*rnin) to Cebes& 'e said, /ere yo* at all dis-on-erted& Cebes& at o*r (riend=s obje-tion2 !'at was not my (eelin)& said Cebes4 and yet " -annot deny t'at " am a0t to be dis-on-erted. !'en we are a)reed a(ter all& said So-rates& t'at t'e o00osite will ne5er in any -ase be o00osed to itsel(2 !o t'at we are :*ite a)reed& 'e re0lied. 3et on-e more let me as1 yo* to -onsider t'e :*estion (rom anot'er

0oint o( 5iew& and see w'et'er yo* a)ree wit' me, !'ere is a t'in) w'i-' yo* term 'eat& and anot'er t'in) w'i-' yo* term -old2 Certainly. B*t are t'ey t'e same as (ire and snow2 +ost ass*redly not. Heat is not t'e same as (ire& nor is -old t'e same as snow2 No. And yet yo* will s*rely admit t'at w'en snow& as be(ore said& is *nder t'e in(l*en-e o( 'eat& t'ey will not remain snow and 'eat4 b*t at t'e ad5an-e o( t'e 'eat t'e snow will eit'er retire or 0eris'2 ?ery tr*e& 'e re0lied. And t'e (ire too at t'e ad5an-e o( t'e -old will eit'er retire or 0eris'4 and w'en t'e (ire is *nder t'e in(l*en-e o( t'e -old& t'ey will not remain& as be(ore& (ire and -old. !'at is tr*e& 'e said. And in some -ases t'e name o( t'e idea is not -on(ined to t'e idea4 b*t anyt'in) else w'i-'& not bein) t'e idea& e6ists only in t'e (orm o( t'e idea& may also lay -laim to it. " will try to ma1e t'is -learer by an e6am0le, !'e odd n*mber is always -alled by t'e name o( odd2 ?ery tr*e. B*t is t'is t'e only t'in) w'i-' is -alled odd2 Are t'ere not ot'er t'in)s w'i-' 'a5e t'eir own name& and yet are -alled odd& be-a*se& alt'o*)' not t'e same as oddness& t'ey are ne5er wit'o*t oddness29t'at is w'at " mean to as19w'et'er n*mbers s*-' as t'e n*mber t'ree are not o( t'e -lass o( odd. And t'ere are many ot'er e6am0les, wo*ld yo* not say& (or e6am0le& t'at t'ree may be -alled by its 0ro0er name& and also be -alled odd& w'i-' is not t'e same wit' t'ree2 and t'is may be said not only o( t'ree b*t also o( (i5e& and e5ery alternate n*mber9ea-' o( t'em wit'o*t bein) oddness is odd& and in t'e same way two and (o*r& and t'e w'ole series o( alternate n*mbers& 'as e5ery n*mber e5en& wit'o*t bein) e5enness. Do yo* admit t'at2 3es& 'e said& 'ow -an " deny t'at2 !'en now mar1 t'e 0oint at w'i-' " am aimin), not only do essential o00osites e6-l*de one anot'er& b*t also -on-rete t'in)s& w'i-'& alt'o*)' not in t'emsel5es o00osed& -ontain o00osites4 t'ese& " say& also reje-t t'e idea w'i-' is o00osed to t'at w'i-' is -ontained in t'em& and at t'e ad5an-e o( t'at t'ey eit'er 0eris' or wit'draw. !'ere is t'e n*mber t'ree (or e6am0le4 will not t'at end*re anni'ilation or anyt'in) sooner t'an be -on5erted into an e5en n*mber& remainin) t'ree2 ?ery tr*e& said Cebes. And yet& 'e said& t'e n*mber two is -ertainly not o00osed to t'e n*mber t'ree2 "t is not. !'en not only do o00osite ideas re0el t'e ad5an-e o( one anot'er& b*t also t'ere are ot'er t'in)s w'i-' re0el t'e a00roa-' o( o00osites. !'at is :*ite tr*e& 'e said. S*00ose& 'e said& t'at we endea5or& i( 0ossible& to determine w'at t'ese are. By all means. Are t'ey not& Cebes& s*-' as -om0el t'e t'in)s o( w'i-' t'ey 'a5e 0ossession& not only to ta1e t'eir own (orm& b*t also t'e (orm o( some o00osite2 /'at do yo* mean2 " mean& as " was j*st now sayin)& and 'a5e no need to re0eat to yo*& t'at t'ose t'in)s w'i-' are 0ossessed by t'e n*mber t'ree m*st not only be t'ree in n*mber& b*t m*st also be odd. A*ite tr*e. And on t'is oddness& o( w'i-' t'e n*mber t'ree 'as t'e im0ress& t'e o00osite idea will ne5er intr*de2 No. And t'is im0ress was )i5en by t'e odd 0rin-i0le2

3es. And to t'e odd is o00osed t'e e5en2 !r*e. !'en t'e idea o( t'e e5en n*mber will ne5er arri5e at t'ree2 No. !'en t'ree 'as no 0art in t'e e5en2 None. !'en t'e triad or n*mber t'ree is *ne5en2 ?ery tr*e. !o ret*rn t'en to my distin-tion o( nat*res w'i-' are not o00osites& and yet do not admit o00osites, as& in t'is instan-e& t'ree& alt'o*)' not o00osed to t'e e5en& does not any t'e more admit o( t'e e5en& b*t always brin)s t'e o00osite into 0lay on t'e ot'er side4 or as two does not re-ei5e t'e odd& or (ire t'e -old9(rom t'ese e6am0les 7and t'ere are many more o( t'em8 0er'a0s yo* may be able to arri5e at t'e )eneral -on-l*sion t'at not only o00osites will not re-ei5e o00osites& b*t also t'at not'in) w'i-' brin)s t'e o00osite will admit t'e o00osite o( t'at w'i-' it brin)s in t'at to w'i-' it is bro*)'t. And 'ere let me re-a0it*late9(or t'ere is no 'arm in re0etition. !'e n*mber (i5e will not admit t'e nat*re o( t'e e5en& any more t'an ten& w'i-' is t'e do*ble o( (i5e& will admit t'e nat*re o( t'e odd9t'e do*ble& t'o*)' not stri-tly o00osed to t'e odd& reje-ts t'e odd alto)et'er. Nor a)ain will 0arts in t'e ratio o( 3,B& nor any (ra-tion in w'i-' t'ere is a 'al(& nor a)ain in w'i-' t'ere is a t'ird& admit t'e notion o( t'e w'ole& alt'o*)' t'ey are not o00osed to t'e w'ole. 3o* will a)ree to t'at2 3es& 'e said& " entirely a)ree and )o alon) wit' yo* in t'at. And now& 'e said& " t'in1 t'at " may be)in a)ain4 and to t'e :*estion w'i-' " am abo*t to as1 " will be) yo* to )i5e not t'e old sa(e answer& b*t anot'er& o( w'i-' " will o((er yo* an e6am0le4 and " 'o0e t'at yo* will (ind in w'at 'as been j*st said anot'er (o*ndation w'i-' is as sa(e. " mean t'at i( anyone as1s yo* ;w'at t'at is& t'e in'eren-e o( w'i-' ma1es t'e body 'ot&; yo* will re0ly not 'eat 7t'is is w'at " -all t'e sa(e and st*0id answer8& b*t (ire& a (ar better answer& w'i-' we are now in a -ondition to )i5e. Or i( anyone as1s yo* ;w'y a body is diseased&; yo* will not say (rom disease& b*t (rom (e5er4 and instead o( sayin) t'at oddness is t'e -a*se o( odd n*mbers& yo* will say t'at t'e monad is t'e -a*se o( t'em, and so o( t'in)s in )eneral& as " dare say t'at yo* will *nderstand s*((i-iently wit'o*t my add*-in) any (*rt'er e6am0les. 3es& 'e said& " :*ite *nderstand yo*. !ell me& t'en& w'at is t'at t'e in'eren-e o( w'i-' will render t'e body ali5e2 !'e so*l& 'e re0lied. And is t'is always t'e -ase2 3es& 'e said& o( -o*rse. !'en w'ate5er t'e so*l 0ossesses& to t'at s'e -omes bearin) li(e2 3es& -ertainly. And is t'ere any o00osite to li(e2 !'ere is& 'e said. And w'at is t'at2 Deat'. !'en t'e so*l& as 'as been a-1nowled)ed& will ne5er re-ei5e t'e o00osite o( w'at s'e brin)s. And now& 'e said& w'at did we -all t'at 0rin-i0le w'i-' re0els t'e e5en2 !'e odd. And t'at 0rin-i0le w'i-' re0els t'e m*si-al& or t'e j*st2 !'e *nm*si-al& 'e said& and t'e *nj*st. And w'at do we -all t'e 0rin-i0le w'i-' does not admit o( deat'2 !'e immortal& 'e said. And does t'e so*l admit o( deat'2 No. !'en t'e so*l is immortal2 3es& 'e said.

And may we say t'at t'is is 0ro5en2 3es& ab*ndantly 0ro5en& So-rates& 'e re0lied. And s*00osin) t'at t'e odd were im0eris'able& m*st not t'ree be im0eris'able2 O( -o*rse. And i( t'at w'i-' is -old were im0eris'able& w'en t'e warm 0rin-i0le -ame atta-1in) t'e snow& m*st not t'e snow 'a5e retired w'ole and *nmelted9(or it -o*ld ne5er 'a5e 0eris'ed& nor -o*ld it 'a5e remained and admitted t'e 'eat2 !r*e& 'e said. A)ain& i( t'e *n-oolin) or warm 0rin-i0le were im0eris'able& t'e (ire w'en assailed by -old wo*ld not 'a5e 0eris'ed or 'a5e been e6tin)*is'ed& b*t wo*ld 'a5e )one away *na((e-ted2 Certainly& 'e said. And t'e same may be said o( t'e immortal, i( t'e immortal is also im0eris'able& t'e so*l w'en atta-1ed by deat' -annot 0eris'4 (or t'e 0re-edin) ar)*ment s'ows t'at t'e so*l will not admit o( deat'& or e5er be dead& any more t'an t'ree or t'e odd n*mber will admit o( t'e e5en& or (ire or t'e 'eat in t'e (ire& o( t'e -old. 3et a 0erson may say, ;B*t alt'o*)' t'e odd will not be-ome e5en at t'e a00roa-' o( t'e e5en& w'y may not t'e odd 0eris' and t'e e5en ta1e t'e 0la-e o( t'e odd2; Now to 'im w'o ma1es t'is obje-tion& we -annot answer t'at t'e odd 0rin-i0le is im0eris'able4 (or t'is 'as not been a-1nowled)ed& b*t i( t'is 'ad been a-1nowled)ed& t'ere wo*ld 'a5e been no di((i-*lty in -ontendin) t'at at t'e a00roa-' o( t'e e5en t'e odd 0rin-i0le and t'e n*mber t'ree too1 *0 t'eir de0art*re4 and t'e same ar)*ment wo*ld 'a5e 'eld )ood o( (ire and 'eat and any ot'er t'in). ?ery tr*e. And t'e same may be said o( t'e immortal, i( t'e immortal is also im0eris'able& t'en t'e so*l will be im0eris'able as well as immortal4 b*t i( not& some ot'er 0roo( o( 'er im0eris'ableness will 'a5e to be )i5en. No ot'er 0roo( is needed& 'e said4 (or i( t'e immortal& bein) eternal& is liable to 0eris'& t'en not'in) is im0eris'able. 3es& re0lied So-rates& all men will a)ree t'at $od& and t'e essential (orm o( li(e& and t'e immortal in )eneral& will ne5er 0eris'. 3es& all men& 'e said9t'at is tr*e4 and w'at is more& )ods& i( " am not mista1en& as well as men. Seein) t'en t'at t'e immortal is indestr*-tible& m*st not t'e so*l& i( s'e is immortal& be also im0eris'able2 +ost -ertainly. !'en w'en deat' atta-1s a man& t'e mortal 0ortion o( 'im may be s*00osed to die& b*t t'e immortal )oes o*t o( t'e way o( deat' and is 0reser5ed sa(e and so*nd2 !r*e. !'en& Cebes& beyond :*estion t'e so*l is immortal and im0eris'able& and o*r so*ls will tr*ly e6ist in anot'er world> " am -on5in-ed& So-rates& said Cebes& and 'a5e not'in) more to obje-t4 b*t i( my (riend Simmias& or anyone else& 'as any (*rt'er obje-tion& 'e 'ad better s0ea1 o*t& and not 1ee0 silen-e& sin-e " do not 1now 'ow t'ere -an e5er be a more (ittin) time to w'i-' 'e -an de(er t'e dis-*ssion& i( t'ere is anyt'in) w'i-' 'e wants to say or 'a5e said. B*t " 'a5e not'in) more to say& re0lied Simmias4 nor do " see any room (or *n-ertainty& e6-e0t t'at w'i-' arises ne-essarily o*t o( t'e )reatness o( t'e s*bje-t and t'e (eebleness o( man& and w'i-' " -annot 'el0 (eelin). 3es& Simmias& re0lied So-rates& t'at is well said, and more t'an t'at& (irst 0rin-i0les& e5en i( t'ey a00ear -ertain& s'o*ld be -are(*lly -onsidered4 and w'en t'ey are satis(a-torily as-ertained& t'en& wit' a sort o( 'esitatin) -on(iden-e in '*man reason& yo* may& " t'in1& (ollow t'e -o*rse o( t'e ar)*ment4 and i( t'is is -lear& t'ere will be no need (or any (*rt'er in:*iry.

!'at& 'e said& is tr*e. B*t t'en& O my (riends& 'e said& i( t'e so*l is really immortal& w'at -are s'o*ld be ta1en o( 'er& not only in res0e-t o( t'e 0ortion o( time w'i-' is -alled li(e& b*t o( eternity> And t'e dan)er o( ne)le-tin) 'er (rom t'is 0oint o( 5iew does indeed a00ear to be aw(*l. "( deat' 'ad only been t'e end o( all& t'e wi-1ed wo*ld 'a5e 'ad a )ood bar)ain in dyin)& (or t'ey wo*ld 'a5e been 'a00ily :*it not only o( t'eir body& b*t o( t'eir own e5il to)et'er wit' t'eir so*ls. B*t now& as t'e so*l 0lainly a00ears to be immortal& t'ere is no release or sal5ation (rom e5il e6-e0t t'e attainment o( t'e 'i)'est 5irt*e and wisdom. or t'e so*l w'en on 'er 0ro)ress to t'e world below ta1es not'in) wit' 'er b*t n*rt*re and ed*-ation4 w'i-' are indeed said )reatly to bene(it or )reatly to inj*re t'e de0arted& at t'e 5ery be)innin) o( its 0il)rima)e in t'e ot'er world. or a(ter deat'& as t'ey say& t'e )eni*s o( ea-' indi5id*al& to w'om 'e belon)ed in li(e& leads 'im to a -ertain 0la-e in w'i-' t'e dead are )at'ered to)et'er (or j*d)ment& w'en-e t'ey )o into t'e world below& (ollowin) t'e )*ide w'o is a00ointed to -ond*-t t'em (rom t'is world to t'e ot'er, and w'en t'ey 'a5e t'ere re-ei5ed t'eir d*e and remained t'eir time& anot'er )*ide brin)s t'em ba-1 a)ain a(ter many re5ol*tions o( a)es. Now t'is jo*rney to t'e ot'er world is not& as Aes-'yl*s says in t'e ;!ele0'*s&; a sin)le and strai)'t 0at'9no )*ide wo*ld be wanted (or t'at& and no one -o*ld miss a sin)le 0at'4 b*t t'ere are many 0artin)s o( t'e road& and windin)s& as " m*st in(er (rom t'e rites and sa-ri(i-es w'i-' are o((ered to t'e )ods below in 0la-es w'ere t'ree ways meet on eart'. !'e wise and orderly so*l is -ons-io*s o( 'er sit*ation and (ollows in t'e 0at'4 b*t t'e so*l w'i-' desires t'e body& and w'i-'& as " was relatin) be(ore& 'as lon) been (l*tterin) abo*t t'e li(eless (rame and t'e world o( si)'t& is a(ter many str*))les and many s*((erin)s 'ardly and wit' 5iolen-e -arried away by 'er attendant )eni*s& and w'en s'e arri5es at t'e 0la-e w'ere t'e ot'er so*ls are )at'ered& i( s'e be im0*re and 'a5e done im0*re deeds& or been -on-erned in (o*l m*rders or ot'er -rimes w'i-' are t'e brot'ers o( t'ese& and t'e wor1s o( brot'ers in -rime9(rom t'at so*l e5eryone (lees and t*rns away4 no one will be 'er -om0anion& no one 'er )*ide& b*t alone s'e wanders in e6tremity o( e5il *ntil -ertain times are (*l(illed& and w'en t'ey are (*l(illed& s'e is borne irresistibly to 'er own (ittin) 'abitation4 as e5ery 0*re and j*st so*l w'i-' 'as 0assed t'ro*)' li(e in t'e -om0any and *nder t'e )*idan-e o( t'e )ods 'as also 'er own 0ro0er 'ome. Now t'e eart' 'as di5ers wonder(*l re)ions& and is indeed in nat*re and e6tent 5ery *nli1e t'e notions o( )eo)ra0'ers& as " belie5e on t'e a*t'ority o( one w'o s'all be nameless. /'at do yo* mean& So-rates2 said Simmias. " 'a5e mysel( 'eard many des-ri0tions o( t'e eart'& b*t " do not 1now in w'at yo* are 0*ttin) yo*r (ait'& and " s'o*ld li1e to 1now. /ell& Simmias& re0lied So-rates& t'e re-ital o( a tale does not& " t'in1& re:*ire t'e art o( $la*-*s4 and " 1now not t'at t'e art o( $la*-*s -o*ld 0ro5e t'e tr*t' o( my tale& w'i-' " mysel( s'o*ld ne5er be able to 0ro5e& and e5en i( " -o*ld& " (ear& Simmias& t'at my li(e wo*ld -ome to an end be(ore t'e ar)*ment was -om0leted. " may des-ribe to yo*& 'owe5er& t'e (orm and re)ions o( t'e eart' a--ordin) to my -on-e0tion o( t'em. !'at& said Simmias& will be eno*)'. /ell& t'en& 'e said& my -on5i-tion is t'at t'e eart' is a ro*nd body in t'e -enter o( t'e 'ea5ens& and t'ere(ore 'as no need o( air or any similar (or-e as a s*00ort& b*t is 1e0t t'ere and 'indered (rom (allin) or in-linin) any way by t'e e:*ability o( t'e s*rro*ndin) 'ea5en and by 'er own e:*i0oise. or t'at w'i-'& bein) in e:*i0oise& is in t'e -enter o( t'at w'i-' is e:*ably di((*sed& will not in-line any way in any de)ree& b*t will always remain in t'e same state and not de5iate. And t'is is my (irst notion. /'i-' is s*rely a -orre-t one& said Simmias. Also " belie5e t'at t'e eart' is 5ery 5ast& and t'at we w'o dwell in

t'e re)ion e6tendin) (rom t'e ri5er P'asis to t'e Pillars o( Hera-les& alon) t'e borders o( t'e sea& are j*st li1e ants or (ro)s abo*t a mars'& and in'abit a small 0ortion only& and t'at many ot'ers dwell in many li1e 0la-es. or " s'o*ld say t'at in all 0arts o( t'e eart' t'ere are 'ollows o( 5ario*s (orms and si@es& into w'i-' t'e water and t'e mist and t'e air -olle-t4 and t'at t'e tr*e eart' is 0*re and in t'e 0*re 'ea5en& in w'i-' also are t'e stars9t'at is t'e 'ea5en w'i-' is -ommonly s0o1en o( as t'e et'er& o( w'i-' t'is is b*t t'e sediment -olle-tin) in t'e 'ollows o( t'e eart'. B*t we w'o li5e in t'ese 'ollows are de-ei5ed into t'e notion t'at we are dwellin) abo5e on t'e s*r(a-e o( t'e eart'4 w'i-' is j*st as i( a -reat*re w'o was at t'e bottom o( t'e sea were to (an-y t'at 'e was on t'e s*r(a-e o( t'e water& and t'at t'e sea was t'e 'ea5en t'ro*)' w'i-' 'e saw t'e s*n and t'e ot'er stars9'e 'a5in) ne5er -ome to t'e s*r(a-e by reason o( 'is (eebleness and sl*))is'ness& and 'a5in) ne5er li(ted *0 'is 'ead and seen& nor e5er 'eard (rom one w'o 'ad seen& t'is re)ion w'i-' is so m*-' 0*rer and (airer t'an 'is own. Now t'is is e6a-tly o*r -ase, (or we are dwellin) in a 'ollow o( t'e eart'& and (an-y t'at we are on t'e s*r(a-e4 and t'e air we -all t'e 'ea5en& and in t'is we ima)ine t'at t'e stars mo5e. B*t t'is is also owin) to o*r (eebleness and sl*))is'ness& w'i-' 0re5ent o*r rea-'in) t'e s*r(a-e o( t'e air, (or i( any man -o*ld arri5e at t'e e6terior limit& or ta1e t'e win)s o( a bird and (ly *0ward& li1e a (is' w'o 0*ts 'is 'ead o*t and sees t'is world& 'e wo*ld see a world beyond4 and& i( t'e nat*re o( man -o*ld s*stain t'e si)'t& 'e wo*ld a-1nowled)e t'at t'is was t'e 0la-e o( t'e tr*e 'ea5en and t'e tr*e li)'t and t'e tr*e stars. or t'is eart'& and t'e stones& and t'e entire re)ion w'i-' s*rro*nds *s& are s0oilt and -orroded& li1e t'e t'in)s in t'e sea w'i-' are -orroded by t'e brine4 (or in t'e sea too t'ere is 'ardly any noble or 0er(e-t )rowt'& b*t -le(ts only& and sand& and an endless slo*)' o( m*d, and e5en t'e s'ore is not to be -om0ared to t'e (airer si)'ts o( t'is world. And )reater (ar is t'e s*0eriority o( t'e ot'er. Now o( t'at *00er eart' w'i-' is *nder t'e 'ea5en& " -an tell yo* a -'armin) tale& Simmias& w'i-' is well wort' 'earin). And we& So-rates& re0lied Simmias& s'all be -'armed to listen. !'e tale& my (riend& 'e said& is as (ollows, "n t'e (irst 0la-e& t'e eart'& w'en loo1ed at (rom abo5e& is li1e one o( t'ose balls w'i-' 'a5e leat'er -o5erin)s in twel5e 0ie-es& and is o( di5ers -olors& o( w'i-' t'e -olors w'i-' 0ainters *se on eart' are only a sam0le. B*t t'ere t'e w'ole eart' is made *0 o( t'em& and t'ey are bri)'ter (ar and -learer t'an o*rs4 t'ere is a 0*r0le o( wonder(*l l*ster& also t'e radian-e o( )old& and t'e w'ite w'i-' is in t'e eart' is w'iter t'an any -'al1 or snow. O( t'ese and ot'er -olors t'e eart' is made *0& and t'ey are more in n*mber and (airer t'an t'e eye o( man 'as e5er seen4 and t'e 5ery 'ollows 7o( w'i-' " was s0ea1in)8 (illed wit' air and water are seen li1e li)'t (las'in) amid t'e ot'er -olors& and 'a5e a -olor o( t'eir own& w'i-' )i5es a sort o( *nity to t'e 5ariety o( eart'. And in t'is (air re)ion e5eryt'in) t'at )rows9trees& and (lowers& and (r*its9is in a li1e de)ree (airer t'an any 'ere4 and t'ere are 'ills& and stones in t'em in a li1e de)ree smoot'er& and more trans0arent& and (airer in -olor t'an o*r 'i)'ly 5al*ed emeralds and sardony6es and jas0ers& and ot'er )ems& w'i-' are b*t min*te (ra)ments o( t'em, (or t'ere all t'e stones are li1e o*r 0re-io*s stones& and (airer still. !'e reason o( t'is is t'at t'ey are 0*re& and not& li1e o*r 0re-io*s stones& in(e-ted or -orroded by t'e -orr*0t briny elements w'i-' -oa)*late amon) *s& and w'i-' breed (o*lness and disease bot' in eart' and stones& as well as in animals and 0lants. !'ey are t'e jewels o( t'e *00er eart'& w'i-' also s'ines wit' )old and sil5er and t'e li1e& and t'ey are 5isible to si)'t and lar)e and ab*ndant and (o*nd in e5ery re)ion o( t'e eart'& and blessed is 'e w'o sees t'em. And *0on t'e eart' are animals and men& some in a middle re)ion& ot'ers dwellin) abo*t t'e air as we dwell abo*t t'e sea4 ot'ers in islands w'i-' t'e air (lows ro*nd& near t'e -ontinent, and in a word& t'e air is *sed by t'em as t'e water and

t'e sea are by *s& and t'e et'er is to t'em w'at t'e air is to *s. +oreo5er& t'e tem0erament o( t'eir seasons is s*-' t'at t'ey 'a5e no disease& and li5e m*-' lon)er t'an we do& and 'a5e si)'t and 'earin) and smell& and all t'e ot'er senses& in (ar )reater 0er(e-tion& in t'e same de)ree t'at air is 0*rer t'an water or t'e et'er t'an air. Also t'ey 'a5e tem0les and sa-red 0la-es in w'i-' t'e )ods really dwell& and t'ey 'ear t'eir 5oi-es and re-ei5e t'eir answers& and are -ons-io*s o( t'em and 'old -on5erse wit' t'em& and t'ey see t'e s*n& moon& and stars as t'ey really are& and t'eir ot'er blessedness is o( a 0ie-e wit' t'is. S*-' is t'e nat*re o( t'e w'ole eart'& and o( t'e t'in)s w'i-' are aro*nd t'e eart'4 and t'ere are di5ers re)ions in t'e 'ollows on t'e (a-e o( t'e )lobe e5eryw'ere& some o( t'em dee0er and also wider t'an t'at w'i-' we in'abit& ot'ers dee0er and wit' a narrower o0enin) t'an o*rs& and some are s'allower and wider4 all 'a5e n*mero*s 0er(orations& and 0assa)es broad and narrow in t'e interior o( t'e eart'& -onne-tin) t'em wit' one anot'er4 and t'ere (lows into and o*t o( t'em& as into basins& a 5ast tide o( water& and '*)e s*bterranean streams o( 0erennial ri5ers& and s0rin)s 'ot and -old& and a )reat (ire& and )reat ri5ers o( (ire& and streams o( li:*id m*d& t'in or t'i-1 7li1e t'e ri5ers o( m*d in Si-ily& and t'e la5a9streams w'i-' (ollow t'em8& and t'e re)ions abo*t w'i-' t'ey 'a00en to (low are (illed *0 wit' t'em. And t'ere is a sort o( swin) in t'e interior o( t'e eart' w'i-' mo5es all t'is *0 and down. Now t'e swin) is in t'is wise, !'ere is a -'asm w'i-' is t'e 5astest o( t'em all& and 0ier-es ri)'t t'ro*)' t'e w'ole eart'4 t'is is t'at w'i-' Homer des-ribes in t'e words& ; ar o((& w'ere is t'e inmost de0t' beneat' t'e eart';4 and w'i-' 'e in ot'er 0la-es& and many ot'er 0oets& 'a5e -alled !artar*s. And t'e swin) is -a*sed by t'e streams (lowin) into and o*t o( t'is -'asm& and t'ey ea-' 'a5e t'e nat*re o( t'e soil t'ro*)' w'i-' t'ey (low. And t'e reason w'y t'e streams are always (lowin) in and o*t is t'at t'e watery element 'as no bed or bottom& and is s*r)in) and swin)in) *0 and down& and t'e s*rro*ndin) wind and air do t'e same4 t'ey (ollow t'e water *0 and down& 'it'er and t'it'er& o5er t'e eart'9j*st as in res0irin) t'e air is always in 0ro-ess o( in'alation and e6'alation4 and t'e wind swin)in) wit' t'e water in and o*t 0rod*-es (ear(*l and irresistible blasts, w'en t'e waters retire wit' a r*s' into t'e lower 0arts o( t'e eart'& as t'ey are -alled& t'ey (low t'ro*)' t'e eart' into t'ose re)ions& and (ill t'em *0 as wit' t'e alternate motion o( a 0*m0& and t'en w'en t'ey lea5e t'ose re)ions and r*s' ba-1 'it'er& t'ey a)ain (ill t'e 'ollows 'ere& and w'en t'ese are (illed& (low t'ro*)' s*bterranean -'annels and (ind t'eir way to t'eir se5eral 0la-es& (ormin) seas& and la1es& and ri5ers& and s0rin)s. !'en-e t'ey a)ain enter t'e eart'& some o( t'em ma1in) a lon) -ir-*it into many lands& ot'ers )oin) to (ew 0la-es and t'ose not distant& and a)ain (all into !artar*s& some at a 0oint a )ood deal lower t'an t'at at w'i-' t'ey rose& and ot'ers not m*-' lower& b*t all in some de)ree lower t'an t'e 0oint o( iss*e. And some b*rst (ort' a)ain on t'e o00osite side& and some on t'e same side& and some wind ro*nd t'e eart' wit' one or many (olds& li1e t'e -oils o( a ser0ent& and des-end as (ar as t'ey -an& b*t always ret*rn and (all into t'e la1e. !'e ri5ers on eit'er side -an des-end only to t'e -enter and no (*rt'er& (or to t'e ri5ers on bot' sides t'e o00osite side is a 0re-i0i-e. Now t'ese ri5ers are many& and mi)'ty& and di5erse& and t'ere are (o*r 0rin-i0al ones& o( w'i-' t'e )reatest and o*termost is t'at -alled O-ean*s& w'i-' (lows ro*nd t'e eart' in a -ir-le4 and in t'e o00osite dire-tion (lows A-'eron& w'i-' 0asses *nder t'e eart' t'ro*)' desert 0la-es& into t'e A-'er*sian #a1e, t'is is t'e la1e to t'e s'ores o( w'i-' t'e so*ls o( t'e many )o w'en t'ey are dead& and a(ter waitin) an a00ointed time& w'i-' is to some a lon)er and to some a

s'orter time& t'ey are sent ba-1 a)ain to be born as animals. !'e t'ird ri5er rises between t'e two& and near t'e 0la-e o( risin) 0o*rs into a 5ast re)ion o( (ire& and (orms a la1e lar)er t'an t'e +editerranean Sea& boilin) wit' water and m*d4 and 0ro-eedin) m*ddy and t*rbid& and windin) abo*t t'e eart'& -omes& amon) ot'er 0la-es& to t'e e6tremities o( t'e A-'er*sian #a1e& b*t min)les not wit' t'e waters o( t'e la1e& and a(ter ma1in) many -oils abo*t t'e eart' 0l*n)es into !artar*s at a dee0er le5el. !'is is t'at Pyri0'le)et'on& as t'e stream is -alled& w'i-' t'rows *0 jets o( (ire in all sorts o( 0la-es. !'e (o*rt' ri5er )oes o*t on t'e o00osite side& and (alls (irst o( all into a wild and sa5a)e re)ion& w'i-' is all o( a dar19bl*e -olor& li1e la0is la@*li4 and t'is is t'at ri5er w'i-' is -alled t'e Sty)ian Ri5er& and (alls into and (orms t'e #a1e Sty6& and a(ter (allin) into t'e la1e and re-ei5in) stran)e 0owers in t'e waters& 0asses *nder t'e eart'& windin) ro*nd in t'e o00osite dire-tion to Pyri0'le)et'on& and meetin) in t'e A-'er*sian #a1e (rom t'e o00osite side. And t'e water o( t'is ri5er too min)les wit' no ot'er& b*t (lows ro*nd in a -ir-le and (alls into !artar*s o5er a)ainst Pyri0'le)et'on& and t'e name o( t'is ri5er& as t'e 0oet says& is Co-yt*s. S*-' is t'e name o( t'e ot'er world4 and w'en t'e dead arri5e at t'e 0la-e to w'i-' t'e )eni*s o( ea-' se5erally -on5eys t'em& (irst o( all t'ey 'a5e senten-e 0assed *0on t'em& as t'ey 'a5e li5ed well and 0io*sly or not. And t'ose w'o a00ear to 'a5e li5ed neit'er well nor ill& )o to t'e ri5er A-'eron& and mo*nt s*-' -on5eyan-es as t'ey -an )et& and are -arried in t'em to t'e la1e& and t'ere t'ey dwell and are 0*ri(ied o( t'eir e5il deeds& and s*((er t'e 0enalty o( t'e wron)s w'i-' t'ey 'a5e done to ot'ers& and are absol5ed& and re-ei5e t'e rewards o( t'eir )ood deeds a--ordin) to t'eir deserts. B*t t'ose w'o a00ear to be in-*rable by reason o( t'e )reatness o( t'eir -rimes9w'o 'a5e -ommitted many and terrible deeds o( sa-rile)e& m*rders (o*l and 5iolent& or t'e li1e9s*-' are '*rled into !artar*s& w'i-' is t'eir s*itable destiny& and t'ey ne5er -ome o*t. !'ose a)ain w'o 'a5e -ommitted -rimes& w'i-'& alt'o*)' )reat& are not *n0ardonable9w'o in a moment o( an)er& (or e6am0le& 'a5e done 5iolen-e to a (at'er or mot'er& and 'a5e re0ented (or t'e remainder o( t'eir li5es& or w'o 'a5e ta1en t'e li(e o( anot'er *nder li1e e6ten*atin) -ir-*mstan-es9t'ese are 0l*n)ed into !artar*s& t'e 0ains o( w'i-' t'ey are -om0elled to *nder)o (or a year& b*t at t'e end o( t'e year t'e wa5e -asts t'em (ort'9mere 'omi-ides by way o( Co-yt*s& 0arri-ides and matri-ides by Pyri0'le)et'on9and t'ey are borne to t'e A-'er*sian #a1e& and t'ere t'ey li(t *0 t'eir 5oi-es and -all *0on t'e 5i-tims w'om t'ey 'a5e slain or wron)ed& to 'a5e 0ity on t'em& and to re-ei5e t'em& and to let t'em -ome o*t o( t'e ri5er into t'e la1e. And i( t'ey 0re5ail& t'en t'ey -ome (ort' and -ease (rom t'eir tro*bles4 b*t i( not& t'ey are -arried ba-1 a)ain into !artar*s and (rom t'en-e into t'e ri5ers *n-easin)ly& *ntil t'ey obtain mer-y (rom t'ose w'om t'ey 'a5e wron)ed, (or t'at is t'e senten-e in(li-ted *0on t'em by t'eir j*d)es. !'ose also w'o are remar1able (or 'a5in) led 'oly li5es are released (rom t'is eart'ly 0rison& and )o to t'eir 0*re 'ome w'i-' is abo5e& and dwell in t'e 0*rer eart'4 and t'ose w'o 'a5e d*ly 0*ri(ied t'emsel5es wit' 0'iloso0'y li5e 'en-e(ort' alto)et'er wit'o*t t'e body& in mansions (airer (ar t'an t'ese& w'i-' may not be des-ribed& and o( w'i-' t'e time wo*ld (ail me to tell. /'ere(ore& Simmias& seein) all t'ese t'in)s& w'at o*)'t not we to do in order to obtain 5irt*e and wisdom in t'is li(e2 air is t'e 0ri@e& and t'e 'o0e )reat. " do not mean to a((irm t'at t'e des-ri0tion w'i-' " 'a5e )i5en o( t'e so*l and 'er mansions is e6a-tly tr*e9a man o( sense o*)'t 'ardly to say t'at. B*t " do say t'at& inasm*-' as t'e so*l is s'own to be immortal& 'e may 5ent*re to t'in1& not im0ro0erly or *nwort'ily& t'at somet'in) o( t'e 1ind is tr*e. !'e 5ent*re is a )lorio*s one& and 'e o*)'t to -om(ort 'imsel( wit' words li1e t'ese& w'i-' is t'e reason w'y len)t'en o*t t'e tale. /'ere(ore& " say& let a man be o( )ood

-'eer abo*t 'is so*l& w'o 'as -ast away t'e 0leas*res and ornaments o( t'e body as alien to 'im& and rat'er '*rt(*l in t'eir e((e-ts& and 'as (ollowed a(ter t'e 0leas*res o( 1nowled)e in t'is li(e4 w'o 'as adorned t'e so*l in 'er own 0ro0er jewels& w'i-' are tem0eran-e& and j*sti-e& and -o*ra)e& and nobility& and tr*t'9in t'ese arrayed s'e is ready to )o on 'er jo*rney to t'e world below& w'en 'er time -omes. 3o*& Simmias and Cebes& and all ot'er men& will de0art at some time or ot'er. +e already& as t'e tra)i- 0oet wo*ld say& t'e 5oi-e o( (ate -alls. Soon " m*st drin1 t'e 0oison4 and " t'in1 t'at " 'ad better re0air to t'e bat' (irst& in order t'at t'e women may not 'a5e t'e tro*ble o( was'in) my body a(ter " am dead. /'en 'e 'ad done s0ea1in)& Crito said, And 'a5e yo* any -ommands (or *s& So-rates9anyt'in) to say abo*t yo*r -'ildren& or any ot'er matter in w'i-' we -an ser5e yo*2 Not'in) 0arti-*lar& 'e said, only& as " 'a5e always told yo*& " wo*ld 'a5e yo* loo1 to yo*rsel5es4 t'at is a ser5i-e w'i-' yo* may always be doin) to me and mine as well as to yo*rsel5es. And yo* need not ma1e 0ro(essions4 (or i( yo* ta1e no t'o*)'t (or yo*rsel5es& and wal1 not a--ordin) to t'e 0re-e0ts w'i-' " 'a5e )i5en yo*& not now (or t'e (irst time& t'e warmt' o( yo*r 0ro(essions will be o( no a5ail. /e will do o*r best& said Crito. B*t in w'at way wo*ld yo* 'a5e *s b*ry yo*2 "n any way t'at yo* li1e4 only yo* m*st )et 'old o( me& and ta1e -are t'at " do not wal1 away (rom yo*. !'en 'e t*rned to *s& and added wit' a smile, " -annot ma1e Crito belie5e t'at " am t'e same So-rates w'o 'a5e been tal1in) and -ond*-tin) t'e ar)*ment4 'e (an-ies t'at " am t'e ot'er So-rates w'om 'e will soon see& a dead body9and 'e as1s& How s'all 'e b*ry me2 And t'o*)' " 'a5e s0o1en many words in t'e endea5or to s'ow t'at w'en " 'a5e dr*n1 t'e 0oison " s'all lea5e yo* and )o to t'e joys o( t'e blessed9t'ese words o( mine& wit' w'i-' " -om(orted yo* and mysel(& 'a5e 'ad& " 0er-ei5e& no e((e-t *0on Crito. And t'ere(ore " want yo* to be s*rety (or me now& as 'e was s*rety (or me at t'e trial, b*t let t'e 0romise be o( anot'er sort4 (or 'e was my s*rety to t'e j*d)es t'at " wo*ld remain& b*t yo* m*st be my s*rety to 'im t'at " s'all not remain& b*t )o away and de0art4 and t'en 'e will s*((er less at my deat'& and not be )rie5ed w'en 'e sees my body bein) b*rned or b*ried. " wo*ld not 'a5e 'im sorrow at my 'ard lot& or say at t'e b*rial& !'*s we lay o*t So-rates& or& !'*s we (ollow 'im to t'e )ra5e or b*ry 'im4 (or (alse words are not only e5il in t'emsel5es& b*t t'ey in(e-t t'e so*l wit' e5il. Be o( )ood -'eer& t'en& my dear Crito& and say t'at yo* are b*ryin) my body only& and do wit' t'at as is *s*al& and as yo* t'in1 best. /'en 'e 'ad s0o1en t'ese words& 'e arose and went into t'e bat' -'amber wit' Crito& w'o bade *s wait4 and we waited& tal1in) and t'in1in) o( t'e s*bje-t o( dis-o*rse& and also o( t'e )reatness o( o*r sorrow4 'e was li1e a (at'er o( w'om we were bein) berea5ed& and we were abo*t to 0ass t'e rest o( o*r li5es as or0'ans. /'en 'e 'ad ta1en t'e bat' 'is -'ildren were bro*)'t to 'im97'e 'ad two yo*n) sons and an elder one84 and t'e women o( 'is (amily also -ame& and 'e tal1ed to t'em and )a5e t'em a (ew dire-tions in t'e 0resen-e o( Crito4 and 'e t'en dismissed t'em and ret*rned to *s. Now t'e 'o*r o( s*nset was near& (or a )ood deal o( time 'ad 0assed w'ile 'e was wit'in. /'en 'e -ame o*t& 'e sat down wit' *s a)ain a(ter 'is bat'& b*t not m*-' was said. Soon t'e jailer& w'o was t'e ser5ant o( t'e Ele5en& entered and stood by 'im& sayin), !o yo*& So-rates& w'om " 1now to be t'e noblest and )entlest and best o( all w'o e5er -ame to t'is 0la-e& " will not im0*te t'e an)ry (eelin)s o( ot'er men& w'o ra)e and swear at me w'en& in obedien-e to t'e a*t'orities& " bid t'em drin1 t'e 0oison9indeed& " am s*re t'at yo* will not be an)ry wit' me4 (or ot'ers& as yo* are aware& and not "& are t'e )*ilty -a*se. And so (are yo* well& and try to bear li)'tly w'at m*st needs be4 yo* 1now my errand. !'en b*rstin) into tears 'e t*rned away and went o*t.

So-rates loo1ed at 'im and said, " ret*rn yo*r )ood wis'es& and will do as yo* bid. !'en& t*rnin) to *s& 'e said& How -'armin) t'e man is, sin-e " 'a5e been in 0rison 'e 'as always been -omin) to see me& and at times 'e wo*ld tal1 to me& and was as )ood as -o*ld be to me& and now see 'ow )enero*sly 'e sorrows (or me. B*t we m*st do as 'e says& Crito4 let t'e -*0 be bro*)'t& i( t'e 0oison is 0re0ared, i( not& let t'e attendant 0re0are some. 3et& said Crito& t'e s*n is still *0on t'e 'illto0s& and many a one 'as ta1en t'e dra*)'t late& and a(ter t'e anno*n-ement 'as been made to 'im& 'e 'as eaten and dr*n1& and ind*l)ed in sens*al deli)'ts4 do not 'asten t'en& t'ere is still time. So-rates said, 3es& Crito& and t'ey o( w'om yo* s0ea1 are ri)'t in doin) t'*s& (or t'ey t'in1 t'at t'ey will )ain by t'e delay4 b*t " am ri)'t in not doin) t'*s& (or " do not t'in1 t'at " s'o*ld )ain anyt'in) by drin1in) t'e 0oison a little later4 " s'o*ld be s0arin) and sa5in) a li(e w'i-' is already )one, " -o*ld only la*)' at mysel( (or t'is. Please t'en to do as " say& and not to re(*se me. Crito& w'en 'e 'eard t'is& made a si)n to t'e ser5ant& and t'e ser5ant went in& and remained (or some time& and t'en ret*rned wit' t'e jailer -arryin) a -*0 o( 0oison. So-rates said, 3o*& my )ood (riend& w'o are e60erien-ed in t'ese matters& s'all )i5e me dire-tions 'ow " am to 0ro-eed. !'e man answered, 3o* 'a5e only to wal1 abo*t *ntil yo*r le)s are 'ea5y& and t'en to lie down& and t'e 0oison will a-t. At t'e same time 'e 'anded t'e -*0 to So-rates& w'o in t'e easiest and )entlest manner& wit'o*t t'e least (ear or -'an)e o( -olor or (eat*re& loo1in) at t'e man wit' all 'is eyes& E-'e-rates& as 'is manner was& too1 t'e -*0 and said, /'at do yo* say abo*t ma1in) a libation o*t o( t'is -*0 to any )od2 +ay "& or not2 !'e man answered, /e only 0re0are& So-rates& j*st so m*-' as we deem eno*)'. " *nderstand& 'e said, yet " may and m*st 0ray to t'e )ods to 0ros0er my jo*rney (rom t'is to t'at ot'er world9may t'is& t'en& w'i-' is my 0rayer& be )ranted to me. !'en 'oldin) t'e -*0 to 'is li0s& :*ite readily and -'eer(*lly 'e dran1 o(( t'e 0oison. And 'it'erto most o( *s 'ad been able to -ontrol o*r sorrow4 b*t now w'en we saw 'im drin1in)& and saw too t'at 'e 'ad (inis'ed t'e dra*)'t& we -o*ld no lon)er (orbear& and in s0ite o( mysel( my own tears were (lowin) (ast4 so t'at " -o5ered my (a-e and we0t o5er mysel(& (or -ertainly " was not wee0in) o5er 'im& b*t at t'e t'o*)'t o( my own -alamity in 'a5in) lost s*-' a -om0anion. Nor was " t'e (irst& (or Crito& w'en 'e (o*nd 'imsel( *nable to restrain 'is tears& 'ad )ot *0 and mo5ed away& and " (ollowed4 and at t'at moment. A0ollodor*s& w'o 'ad been wee0in) all t'e time& bro1e o*t in a lo*d -ry w'i-' made -owards o( *s all. So-rates alone retained 'is -almness, /'at is t'is stran)e o*t-ry2 'e said. " sent away t'e women mainly in order t'at t'ey mi)'t not o((end in t'is way& (or " 'a5e 'eard t'at a man s'o*ld die in 0ea-e. Be :*iet& t'en& and 'a5e 0atien-e. /'en we 'eard t'at& we were as'amed& and re(rained o*r tears4 and 'e wal1ed abo*t *ntil& as 'e said& 'is le)s be)an to (ail& and t'en 'e lay on 'is ba-1& a--ordin) to t'e dire-tions& and t'e man w'o )a5e 'im t'e 0oison now and t'en loo1ed at 'is (eet and le)s4 and a(ter a w'ile 'e 0ressed 'is (oot 'ard and as1ed 'im i( 'e -o*ld (eel4 and 'e said& no4 and t'en 'is le)& and so *0wards and *0wards& and s'owed *s t'at 'e was -old and sti((. And 'e (elt t'em 'imsel(& and said, /'en t'e 0oison rea-'es t'e 'eart& t'at will be t'e end. He was be)innin) to )row -old abo*t t'e )roin& w'en 'e *n-o5ered 'is (a-e& (or 'e 'ad -o5ered 'imsel( *0& and said 7t'ey were 'is last words89'e said, Crito& " owe a -o-1 to As-le0i*s4 will yo* remember to 0ay t'e debt2 !'e debt s'all be 0aid& said Crito4 is t'ere anyt'in) else2 !'ere was no answer to t'is :*estion4 b*t in a min*te or two a mo5ement was 'eard& and t'e attendants *n-o5ered 'im4 'is eyes were set& and Crito -losed 'is eyes and mo*t'. S*-' was t'e end& E-'e-rates& o( o*r (riend& w'om " may tr*ly -all t'e wisest& and j*stest& and best o( all t'e men w'om " 'a5e e5er 1nown.



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