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JULY 2, 2010
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Africa's Forever Wars
Why the continent's conflicts never end.
BY JEFFREY GETTLEMAN | MARCH/APRIL 2010
and make them do the killing. they don't have clear goals. This is the story across much of Africa. most brutal wars never seem to end: They are not really wars. stick Kalashnikovs or axes in their hands. civilian. soldier (now a rarity in Africa) to soldier vs. The combatants don't have much of an ideology. they prefer the deep bush. where armed groups in recent years have sexually assaulted hundreds of thousands of women.There is a very simple reason why some of Africa's bloodiest. heavily armed banditry. Look closely at some of the continent's most intractable conflicts. I've witnessed up close -. at least. where it is far easier to commit crimes. What is the military or political objective of ramming an assault rifle inside a woman and pulling the trigger? Terror has become an end. But what is spreading across Africa like a viral pandemic is actually just opportunistic. Most of today's African fighters are not rebels with a cause.something wilder. That's why we see stunning atrocities like eastern Congo's rape epidemic.in fact. But most of my time is spent immersed in these un-wars. even user-friendly. fine. My job as the New York Times' East Africa bureau chief is to cover news and feature stories in 12 countries. Quiet places such as Tanzania are the lonely exceptions. If you'd like to call this war.how combat has morphed from soldier vs. Today's rebels seem especially uninterested in winning converts. What we are seeing is the decline of the classic African liberation movement and the proliferation of something else -. from the rebel-laden creeks of the Niger Delta to the inferno in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. more violent. Not in the traditional sense. tourist-filled
. content instead to steal other people's children.often way too close -. and this is what you will find. where nearly half of the continent's 53 countries are home to an active conflict or a recently ended one. messier. They couldn't care less about taking over capitals or major cities -. not just a means. often so sadistically that the victims are left incontinent for life. and harder to wrap our heads around. they're predators.
many of the last generation's independence struggles were bloody. Yoweri Museveni. and he's still in office (another problem. Joseph Kony. Their armies are often traumatized children. The only way to stop today's rebels for real is to capture or kill their leaders. Many are uniquely devious characters whose organizations would likely disappear as soon as they do. the moment that warlord-turned-president Charles Taylor was arrested in 2006 was the same moment that the curtain dropped on the gruesome circus of 10-year-old killers wearing Halloween masks. That's what happened in Angola when the diamond-smuggling rebel leader Jonas Savimbi was shot. hours. with experience and skills (if you can call them that) totally unsuited for civilian life. South Sudan's decades-long rebellion is thought to have cost more than 2 million lives. and a license to rampage. They don't want ministries or tracts of land to govern. Add together the casualties in just the dozen countries that I cover. who just gives orders to burn. All they want is cash. and lives have been wasted on fruitless rounds of talks that will never culminate in such clear-cut results. In Liberia. Of course. Uganda's top guerrilla of the 1980s. guns. Countless dollars. and the leaders driving them. another story). bringing a sudden end to one of the Cold War's most intense conflicts. More than 5 million have died in Congo alone since 1998. But his words seem downright noble compared with the best-known rebel leader from his country today. the International Rescue Committee has estimated. too. But this is not about numbers. And they've already got all three. The same could be said of indictments of rebel leaders for crimes against humanity by the International
. Museveni became president in 1986. This is about methods and objectives. and you have a death toll of tens of thousands of civilians each year.Kenya blew up in 2008. there is very little to offer them. Even if you could coax these men out of their jungle lairs and get them to the negotiating table. How do you negotiate with that? The short answer is you don't. used to fire up his rebels by telling them they were on the ground floor of a national people's army.
Zimbabwe's dictator. intelligent leader wielding persuasive rhetoric. Unfortunately. or apartheid. He pulled off what few guerrilla leaders anywhere have done: winning his people their own country. who led the rebellion in southern Sudan with his Sudan People's Liberation Army. Where meddling great powers once found dominoes that needed to be kept from falling. The Cold War's end bred state collapse and chaos. With the prospect of prosecution looming. and the aid he lent other African liberation movements in the 1980s. he turned his country into one of the fastest-growing and most diversified economies south of the Sahara -. was once a guerrilla with a plan. Garang died in a 2005 helicopter crash. Put the well-educated Garang and the old Mugabe in a room with today's visionless rebel leaders. Even Robert Mugabe. South Sudan will hold a referendum next year to secede from the North. the region without him looks pretty godforsaken. Thanks in part to his tenacity. but it seems that yesteryear's African rebels had a bit more class. but people still talk about him like a god. How did we get here? Maybe it's pure nostalgia. These were men like John Garang. They were fighting against colonialism. After transforming minority white-run Rhodesia into majority black-run Zimbabwe. they suddenly saw no national
. These men are living relics of a past that has been essentially obliterated. those fighting are sure never to give up.Criminal Court. tyranny. I traveled to southern Sudan in November to report on how ethnic militias. account for many African leaders' reluctance to criticize him today. His status as a true war hero. and they would have just about nothing in common. even as he has led Zimbabwe down a path straight to hell.for the first decade and a half of his rule. What changed in one generation was in part the world itself. The winning insurgencies often came with a charming. formed in the new power vacuum. have taken to mowing down civilians by the thousands.
I met Nkunda in his mountain hideout in late 2008 after slogging hours up a muddy road lined with baby-faced soldiers. which could be bought just as easily -. Bosco Ntaganda. Congo's embarrassment of riches belongs to the 70 million Congolese.and often at a nice discount -. profit-oriented bloodshed. but in the past 10 to 15 years. of course. when rebels rose up against the leopard skin-capped dictator Mobutu Sese Seko. a toxic hodgepodge of Mai Mai commanders.interest at all. and as it turned out. and meddling neighbor countries.from various armed groups.) Suddenly. The questions didn't seem to trouble him too much. diamonds. though. Congo today is home to a resource rebellion in which vague anti-government feelings become an excuse to steal public property. Among them were Laurent Nkunda. His farmhouse had plenty of space for guests. The chopstick-thin general waxed eloquent about the oppression of the minority Tutsi people he claimed to represent. all you needed to be powerful was a gun. and other minerals. AK-47s and cheap ammunition bled out of the collapsed Eastern Bloc and into the farthest corners of Africa. rebel leaders carved out fiefdoms ludicrously rich in gold. and the madman leaders of a flamboyantly cruel group called the Rastas. Rwandan genocidaires. copper. no one really rebuilt it. and he cheered up soon. It was the perfect opportunity for the charismatic and morally challenged. there were plenty to go around. In Congo. were natural resources. refugees. so why didn't I spend the night? Nkunda is not totally wrong about Congo's mess. there have been dozens of such men since 1996. But what I've come to understand is how quickly legitimate grievances in these failed or failing African states deteriorate into rapacious. (The exceptions. In the anarchy that flourished. that treasure has been hijacked by a
. tin. probably the most corrupt man in the history of this most corrupt continent. After Mobutu's state collapsed. Thomas Lubanga. Ethnic tensions are a real piece of the conflict. together with disputes over land. but he bristled when I asked him about the warlord-like taxes he was imposing and all the women his soldiers have raped.
When Uganda finally got its act together in the late 1990s and cracked down. is that you
. The LRA literally carved their way across the region. Congo. The movement's leader. so-called prophet who espoused the Ten Commandments. wig-wearing. for example. Its ranks are filled with brainwashed boys and girls who ransack villages and pound newborn babies to death in wooden mortars. Like the gangs in the oil-polluted Niger Delta. the poverty and marginalization of the country's ethnic Acholi areas. I'll never forget visiting northern Uganda a few years ago and meeting a whole group of women whose lips were sheared off by Kony's maniacs. he broke every one. The LRA. their scourge has spread to one of the world's most lawless regions: the borderland where Sudan. as many as one-third of all combatants are under 18. begun as a rebel movement in northern Uganda during the lawless 1980s. Child soldiers are an inextricable part of these movements. was a young.couple dozen rebel commanders who use it to buy even more guns and wreak more havoc. the LRA at first had some legitimate grievances -. and the Central African Republic meet. and you could always see their teeth. Kony and his men simply marched on. it seized children. Joseph Kony. though. Today. and some of those left in their wake can barely talk at all. never seized territory. Soon. In Congo. Probably the most disturbing example of an African un-war comes from the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA). He used his supposed magic powers (and drugs) to whip his followers into a frenzy and unleashed them on the very Acholi people he was supposed to be protecting. They don't talk about the Ten Commandments anymore.namely. popular support is irrelevant to these rebels. The downside to not caring about winning hearts and minds. gibberish-speaking. Their mouths were always open. Since the new predatory style of African warfare is motivated and financed by crime. leaving a trail of hackedoff limbs and sawed-off ears.
Yet the fighting is being nourished by the same old Somali problem that has dogged this desperately poor country since 1991: warlordism. in endless supply. And children have turned out to be ideal weapons: easily brainwashed. criminal networks rise up to finance his opponent. The world has let Somalia fester too long without a permanent government. So abducting and manipulating children becomes the only way to sustain the organized banditry. intensely loyal. no gold teeth.don't win many recruits. Many of the men who command or fund militias in Somalia today are the same ones who tore the place apart over the past 20 years in a scramble for the few resources left -. Now. fearless. airport. In this new age of forever wars. Somalia seems wracked by a religiously themed civil conflict between the internationally backed but feckless transitional government and the Islamist militia al-Shabab.
. no matter who that may be. One olive oil exporter in Mogadishu told me that he and some trader friends bought a crate of missiles to shoot at government soldiers because "taxes are annoying. Whenever a potential leader emerges to reimpose order in Mogadishu. many powerful Somalis have a vested interest in the status quo chaos. telephone poles." Most frightening is how many sick states like Congo are now showing Somalia-like symptoms. the harder it is to go back to the necessary evil of government.no music. most importantly. Somalis are getting sick of the Shabab and its draconian rules -.the port.exceptional even in its neighborhood for unending conflict. But what has kept locals in Somalia from rising up against foreign terrorists is Somalia's deeply ingrained culture of war profiteering. even no bras. and. But what if Somalia is less of an outlier than a terrifying forecast of what war in Africa is moving toward? On the surface. even Somalia looks different. The longer these areas are stateless. and grazing pastures. That country certainly evokes the image of Africa's most chaotic state -.
I have also come across a few nonhoodlum rebels who seem legitimately motivated. with no end in sight. there are the un-wars. But though their political grievances are well defined. "I am just thinking of the road home.All this might seem a gross simplification. She had scarred shins and stony eyes. Now rebels are hoisted out of obscurity after they have little more than a website and a "press office" (read: a satellite telephone).
. and I met a young woman named Flo. I was in southern Sudan working on a piece about the Ugandan Army's hunt for Kony. Libya. This is what many conflicts in Africa have become -.the military coup -. I quickly realized that the main draw for many of these rebel "leaders" was not the negotiating sessions. To her. it seemed like they had been aimlessly tramping through the jungle." she said. as Guinea found out in 2008 and Madagascar not too long thereafter. It was never clear to her why the LRA was fighting. the organizations they "lead" are not. For the rest.
Save big when you subscribe to FP. marching in circles. these ceaseless conflicts I spend my days cataloging as they grind on. mincing lives and spitting out bodies. The old steady -. and often there were long pauses after my questions. in 2007. polishing their ideology. Old-style African rebels spent years in the bush honing their leadership skills. Recently. not all of Africa's conflicts fit this new paradigm.
Jeffrey Gettleman is East Africa bureau chief for the New York Times. like some of the Darfurian commanders in Sudan. and indeed. but the all-you-can-eat buffet. and learning to deliver services before they ever met a Western diplomat or sat for a television interview. She had been a slave in the LRA for 15 years and had recently escaped.is still a common form of political upheaval. when Flo would stare at the horizon.circles of violence in the bush. When I went to a Darfur peace conference in Sirte.
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SUBJECTS: HUMAN RIGHTS..
Campaigns of “one-sided violence” against civilians declined by two thirds between 2002 and 2006. Although sub-Saharan Africa retains the dubious distinction of being the world’s most coup-prone region. the average number of coups per year has fallen some 40 percent since the 1980s.
ANDREWMACK 11:55 AM ET February 26. but the killing of defenseless civilians by governments or rebel groups. wish
All in all a good piece. As our 2008 Human Security Brief pointed out: "In the 1990s. not combat. in the new millennium it has become much more peaceful. sub-Saharan Africa was the world’s most war-torn region. A [second] type of political violence involves. 2010
Africa's Unending Wars?
Jeffrey Gettleman's 'Africa's Forever Wars' is long on anecdote and short on statistics––and its central thesis is wrong. The number of battle-deaths had shrunk to just 2 percent of the 1999 toll––an extraordinary decline. Here too there has been a positive change." These data are not precise––no data on wars in Africa are––but the trend over this period is not in doubt. wish I could see something like this in the New York Times. 2010
All in all a good piece. Data from Uppsala University’s Conflict Data Program show that between 1999 and 2006 the number of “state-based” conflicts in the region (i.. Africa's wars DO end. those in which a government is one of the warring parties) had dropped by more than half.(16)
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GRANT 1:46 AM ET February 22.e. their death toll dropped by more than 80 percent.
. Coups d’etat numbers have also declined.
negotiation is pointless. will have to be solved by Africans. or some other similar era/location. as far as it goes. Somalia. which brings its own set of huge obstacles. diamonds and other gemstones. that may not be realistic. Sudan. prosperous example can be found in Botswana. Of course. in fact. short of invasion and foreign suppression of ad hoc militias (which are. 2010
Pretty well nails the issues
These cultural problems that keep these conflicts aflame across the continent seem intractable to me. terms.mineral wealth like gold. the descriptions the author writes could probably be swapped with contemporary descriptions of the conditions of central europe after 25 years worth of the 30 years' war. many of them children). 'mother courage'. any intervention from the West raises the specter of neocolonialism. Cote d'Ivoire. moreover.. I see no hope for most African nations for these very reasons.it just isn't what we think it should be about in 21st cent. et al. Niger. 2010
africa's unending wars
gettleman's article seems accurate to me...SAM 8:52 AM ET February 25. uranium or timber or similar resources. The problems of Congo. little more than bands of rapists and murderers. Andrew Mack
BROOKSINJHB 10:45 AM ET March 20. too often they are about access to resources . since the incentives for doing utterly evil things far outweigh anything that can be offered as an alternative. Perhaps a healthy. As horrifying as it is to think about. koltan.. either. as Gettleman notes. I sometimes wonder if the best course in these cases is simply to let the populations eventually weary of brutality and conflict. perhaps that model can eventually be emulated by other
. Zimbabwe.There is no single explanation for this remarkable change but the huge increase in international efforts to end wars and stop them from starting again is–– notwithstanding the many screw-ups––certainly part of the answer.
MOHAIR. what it leaves out is that many of these endless wars are actually about something . the author's final comments of the woman who has finally escaped from the lra could just as easily have come from the brechtian play. Of course.
Dismissing him as the embodiment of evil or even just as a man interested only in “cash. Joseph Kony “just gives orders to burn. before pronouncing judgment on the relative class of rebel leaders past and present. Speeches. This article is sadly not an exception. (Also. 2010
There are many issues in this article that should be raised. rape. The LRA.nations. and a license to rampage” might be morally satisfying but it doesn’t lead to policies based on solid understandings of the context. the slow churn of mass murder. But writing him off as a maniacal “gibberish speaking so-called prophet” is counter-productive. Everyone I have talked to that supports or is part of the LRA seems to scream with every fiber of their being. In earlier ethnic or left-wing insurgencies the insurgents would govern the areas they controlled according to their beliefs. but I limit myself to one. will undoubtedly continue indefinitely. though. however it is never acted upon. The word “noble” does not spring to mind.” Much writing about the LRA displays the overpowering temptation to paint his brutality in senseless terms. ideological and political motivations. is among the most disturbing examples of African “unwar” that has gone off track from its original “legitimate grievance” inspired beginnings. whether it was
. etc. we are told. and reports of sermons delivered by Joseph Kony by people who have spent time in the LRA articulate the substance of spiritual. Whether they are reasonable or not does not negate their existence. interviews.
HOLLYEPORTER 6:52 AM ET February 26. Gettleman would do well to review research he must have on the NRA’s track record with attacks on civilians and use of child soldiers. 2010
On the LRA yes he does have
On the LRA yes he does have (rather convoluted) message.)
GRANT 4:04 PM ET February 26. “listen to me!” Many abhorrent atrocities are violent messages saying the same thing (The women Gettleman mentioned are tragically illustrative of how Kony communicates). I doubt it. and invite accusations of being an apologist for horrifying violence. guns. Serious analysis and attempts to explain might appear to excuse him.
Complicated 15 years ago
Or so.that because the writer cannot rationalise a conflict or worse several varied conflicts does not mean that no rationale.
AFRICA2010 2:39 PM ET March 9. The thinking here. and loot the populations there as well. The UPDF shares a great deal of the burden in that regard. The raison d'etre of the LRA in 2010 in the absence of a settlement with the Ugandan goverment. far off track from what were legitimate Acholi grievances going back to the late 1980s . child raping murderer . they murder. burned the bridges to any meaningful spiritual.i guess it works with his audience. I think I agree with Gettleman's assesment that the LRA have gone far. and indeed policies out of Kampala have done more to prolong the conflcit then see it resolved. rape. 2010
Clearly an outsiders view
I often find the writers style. They've erroded their support to practically nil by a process of horrifying brutalization against those they claim to be fighting for.especially for understanding the intricacies of conflict that take on local characteristics is not a
. Since the associated benefit of finding the drivers of [a] conflict is the opportunity to resolve them this article does little to help. The LRA. These days any rhetoric the LRA utters from the bush against Kampala and the UPDF (entities which deserve enormous criticism for a variety awful policies and tactics) is akin to a serial killer . is survival. Except in rare cases treating Africa like one big country.following customs and age-old practices or a basic tax on villages and establishing law. In analyzing this conflict it is innacurate to suggest that the LRA are the only party guilty of gross human rights violations.good or bad exists.
ANGELO IZAMA 8:11 AM ET February 27. however. which is unlikely to be forthcoming. The LRA doesn't seem too interested in following ideology.a bit to dramatic for my taste but nonetheless.early 1990s. ethnic and probably political constituency years ago.arguing that his actions are excusable because the police force is corrupt.or at the very least a sadistic. most crucially to Gettleman's argument. I would argue that any screams of "listen to me!" are screams of utter desperation as they scatter to Souther Sudan and Eastern DRC where.
Africa is doomed
.and his proxy role in the political and military conflict between Kinshasa and Kigali. Given the interdependent security system which links the action of governments and rebel groups over a wider geo-political area. There are parallels here to Laurent Nkunda. Nor will he simply be a mercenary.if the northern part of Uganda continues to feel isolated even as Uganda goes to a difficult election in the same period. He has an agenda.good strategy either. plain and simple. 2010
I think it was Alex de Waal who compared modern wars with organised crime and its assoicated violence in Europe and the USA. Being Ugandan and a journalist myself who reports [ and studies] conflicts in the Great Lakes. Plus Kony clearly is a smart strategist. He may not be strong enough to takeover a government but he cannot be dismissed based only on his brutality and unconventional tactics.several elections including the South Sudan referendum will take place in this region.
ORLANDO98 11:05 AM ET March 4.
CHEN LEE 2:16 PM ET March 12. Both are criminal enterprises.the potential for future trouble seems likely. While the brutality of Joseph Kony is mindboggling.in his attempt to project his influence beyond Acholi.is that in the next 30 or so months. Northern Uganda where the rebellion ebbed and flowed is part of a complex political division . It will not be Kony simply continuing his brutality and mindless conflict if after January 2011.it is still a strategy if a failed one.having injected himself in the geopolitical conflict between Khartoum and South Sudan where Uganda is allied.i cannot recognise some of the arguments here. To note for example.and latent ethnic rivalry between Bantu's and non-Bantus that continues to date. Anyway that said offering up these sorts of pieces gives the wrong impression about the closure on some of the more serious conflicts in the region and i do not find it particularly good journalism either.he returns to wreck havoc in an independent South Sudan on behalf of is benefactors in Khartoum. Which explains why the CPA complicated his calculations and put him on the run in Congo and CAR.
.. Warfare used to be a fairly expensive business. In Colombia FARC combatants live at least as well as the national police and army with money from drug dealing and extortion. If you look at almost every conflict in Africa. There was a South African arms buyback program 10 or 20 years ago that went broke because of all the stuff that was coming in from Mozambique.. and finance in Venezuela (a situation that long predates Chavez).the CIA. the only groups with which I have experience are in the Niger Delta. Having said that. and a safe and secure place for supply.How long until the Africans all kill each other off and we can go in to take the minerals? Maybe we can help things along :)
GK6785 3:38 PM ET March 12..com/
ROOTEDCOSMOPOLITAN 10:33 PM ET March 12. Some of these insurgencies are probably economically rational . or even a service station. r&r.what are young insurgents giving up by turning to crime? For the most part they are not giving up jobs and a settled life. but it is a long leap from there to claim that insurgents no longer fight for an end goal. South Africa. 2010
Yes there are groups in Africa that sustain conflict in order to benefit from the black markets. Issues in the Niger Delta could be sorted out at quite a reasonable price with over 2000 oil spills on the ground in the region there is plenty of money owed to the region and a clean up campaign would provide enough work to pacify the region. but the foot soldiers may over step the boundaries of such aims. automatic rifles cost about $300. with some control of arms flows.wordpress. the leaders of the movements establish goals and aims of the violence.
Years ago when there was some sort of insurgency everyone would look for sponsors . Union Miniere. You can start an insurgency by knocking off a bank.. the Russians. Something like that may hold true in some parts of Africa as well. 2010
the low cost of warfare.http://the913project. and it does not seem right to put them in the same category as the Lord's Army. Now mines cost $15. There are criminal groups in the Delta that refine stolen petroleum
.. and the world is awash with them.
Virtually every war before and since has involved "civilians" to a greater or lesser degree and what is happening in Congo and the rest of Africa is. 2010
GEOGELLER 4:25 AM ET March 14. which speaks of a high level of social organization and competence The flood of arms seems largely a product of the collapse of the Soviet bloc. war has always been soldier v civilians. in fact. Period. have been the American Civil War and the First World War (at least the Western Front). Sometimes they start as soldier v soldier. we should make certain that there will be a happier result.war is not war but state of mind. but winning on the battlefield was only a prelude to the inevitable rape and plunder of the defeated before "hostilities" ceased. we will be presented with unattractive alternatives . The two exceptions.and sell it on the local market. Uganda and Rwanda may be imposing some command and control in the Congo that the Congolese can't impose and the "international community" won't. 2010
How can we tell Africans how to fight their wars?
The norm in any war is soldier v civilian. African governments may develop strategies to impose a bit of order. life style
. There may not be solutions to many of the contemporary wars in Africa. The "wars" outlined above are in no way specific to 21st century or Africa so spare us the moral outrage. Apocalypse. In half a lifetime in Nigeria. the norm. In the meantime.like rooting for Executive Outcomes in Sierra Leone in the 90s when they protected the diamond fields. and journalists a little less so. In the best cases. over-romanticized by Western historians mostly. Ever since Krunk figured Grunk's wife looked hot and whacked Grunk in the back of his head with a rock. Before a diplomatic offensive to displace them. and be granted the resources to do so. I've been impressed by the capacity of the largest of African societies to stumble through. and maybe supplies will diminish to more rational levels of supply sometime in the near future.
KAUTILYA 4:36 AM ET March 13. however. is as unlikely as are resolutions.
The Africans have certainly been challenged by Western colonialism.or as in the article "This is what many conflicts in Africa have become -. the rise of local chieftains.but the real question is what does this gangocracy say about us a humans as people . And thir response will be?
GERRI MICHALSKA 7:42 AM ET March 16. challenges make cultures rise to the occasion. 2010
First of all. Disorder.insightful/inciteful .generation of families continue in the family business that leads them to incarceration . with no end in sight".in the west and all over the world we have generational incarceration .food for thought . Kinda like talking about "Europe.problem is who protects us from those who say they are protecting us . Post-colonial Africa looks a lot like post Roman Empie Europe. 2010
The Response to Western Colonialism?
You are way behind the times.its about all for one and one for all and everybody else is the enemy . As Toynebee noted.' Comparing East Africans with Congolese is a bit like lumping Swedes in with Italians. Te Brits lose central heating and go back to fireplaces in their huts.its a life style like in most gangs .circles of violence in the bush. What does all this current chaos and conflict have to do with Western colonialism? Perhaps. I'd caution my fellow pale skins to be a bit humble and apprehensive of the eventual rise of African nations. we could substitute the word world or west for Africa" Africa is not a war in the conventional traditional state its a state of mind of being . If the rise and supremacy of the northern European barbarians predicts anything. defining the subject as "Africa" seems very uninformed. war. this is how Africa lived before Europeans ever came to
.what really is the difference between Africa gangs and western gangs/gov its all about prison of fear/hope in an endless cycle .what will people of the future say about us today too ARVAY 1:20 PM ET March 14.
on the other hand.
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