Carl Franklin and Richard Campbell interview experts to bring you insights into .NET technology and the state of software development. More than just a dry interview show, we have fun! Original Music! Prizes! Check out what you've been missing!

Text Transcript of Show #438 (Transcription services provided by PWOP Productions)

Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16, 2009
Our Sponsors

Carl Franklin: Speed of electrons. I was sitting down at a bar last night and this friend of mine comes up to me who is aging a little bit and he says. same idea. the leading independent magazine for . I mean this is the speed of light we're talking. All right. of course there has to be a calendar. Richard Campbell: I'm so glad to be here and sitting across the booth from you.NET Rocks! This is Carl Franklin. man.datadynamics. osmosis some of these things will sink in. April 10. or multiple ranges of dates. Yeah. "You see. you know. what it is.NET Rocks! the Internet audio talk show for .com Page 2 of 18 . and since people listen to us week after week -. simple. Normally we do this totally blind.NET. There it is. we're very spoiled.NET counter. with Carl Franklin and Richard Campbell. Did you know that there is a WPF calendar? Richard Campbell: it.Windows. that's all there is.NET Rocks! is a production of Franklins. It's the same kind of thing that you'd expect to see. Carl Franklin: C o m e o n . And now. i t s partners. online at www. We sound like we're in the same room but we really aren't. or of Microsoft Corporation.NET framework somewhere because there are so many things to know. "What?" Richard Campbell: That's a ll you got.NET web applications. That's A calendar control can be used on its own or as a drop down part of a date picker control. dnrTV style. which is solely responsible for its content. "Ah. Richard Campbell: And this is Richard Campbell.Controls Namespace which is where all the WPF and Silverlight controls are.NET developers. Now we finally are. I did not know. 2009. Richard Campbell: very spoiled. Support is also provided by CoDe Magazine. Carl Franklin: We're not even compensating for the delay of the phone lines here.NET Rocks! is brought to you by Franklins.NET d evelopers. makers of ActiveReports. the man who is looking forward to the video version of Mondays. and he goes. So we've been talking about the System. [Music] Lawrence Ryan: Hey. These are just little things that you get with the rich user experience of WPF and Silverlight instead of the clunky awkwardness of ASP. you know. Richard. Welcome to my town. the months of a year.NET Rocks! are not necessarily those of its sponsors. order your copy now at www.NET controls with first class customer service. Well. Connecticut. and by Data Dynamics. huh.Net. Carl Franklin: Thank you very much and welcome back to . Richard Campbell: Right. This is Lawrence Ryan announcing show #438.codemagazine. combining the best in Windows Forms and ASP. Tell me about Carl Franklin: And we're sitting here across from each other at PWOP Studios in New London. a range of Carl Franklin: So today we're going to talk about the Calendar control. . he is looking at this piece of mail and I said what is that. What? All right. let's get on to Better Know a Framework. It represents a control that enables it to be used at a selected date by using a visual calendar display. Transcription by PWOP Productions. I don't know Carl Franklin: with guest Pat Hynds. or employees. It displays either the days of the month. very.Training Developers to Work Smarter. so Better Know a Framework is this little spot on the show where I shine a little flashlight on a dark hidden corner of the . [Music] Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: I love that tune up close.franklins. that's what you've got.NET . Can you read this to me?" And I said. online at www.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16.NET . Rock heads! Come up with your own fricking joke! It's time for another stellar episode of .telerik. 2009 Geoff Maciolek: The opinions and viewpoints expressed in .Training Developers to Work Smarter and now offering SharePoint 2007 video training with Sahil Malik on DVD. this is an appointment for your vision and hearing test. powerful and cost-effective reporting for Windows Forms and ASP. come and sit in a booth with Hey. right? Richard Campbell: Right." And he goes. I fly across the continent.pwop.NET. It's not training. . Carl Franklin. that's pretty good. what have you got? Carl Franklin: Okay. recorded live. Support is also provided by Telerik. http://www. When displaying the days of the month you can select a date. all I'm doing is calling your attention to something that's there. online at www. Let me see what the remarks say here. or the years of a decade depending on the value of the display mode property. Franklins. like if you're used to working with the ASP.

That's incredible. Carl Franklin: Yeah. Richard Campbell: I do indeed. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: BlackBerry. "Just over three years ago. in the space of literally weeks of your show. So you got an email for us. I can't imagine. "Anyhow." Carl Franklin: Wow. Carl Franklin: Okay. There's more stuff but. Carl Franklin: That man deserves a mug. maybe I will listen to one of these podcasts." Carl Franklin: Yeah. Richard Campbell: "I recently started listening from the beginning of the archives and show 222 but soon worked out that with two new shows every week it will take me several months to get up to date so I revised my strategy and now listen to two new shows every week and I'm averaging a legacy show every day. the two years finished and I started to relearn stuff. Richard Campbell: "Well. I put everything on hold including my business and programming career to do service for my church as a missionary. Richard Campbell: "It was something I really wanted to do but it meant that I had limited access to a PC and what I mean limited I mean I check my email for an hour once a week for a period of two years. So basically. Richard Campbell: sore. I can't Richard Campbell: Absolutely. Richard Campbell: "Dear Carl and Richard. "Right now it's show 260. and again I was like what's that? Now I have checked the technology out and I can't believe how useful it is and what an idiot I've been for not finding out about stuff like this before and these are just two examples of many." Carl Franklin: That's what I can't imagine listening to that much Carl and Richard. Richard Campbell: Y e s . I figured maybe it would be useful and I should check it out and after two days of using SVN I couldn't believe we never used it before. he didn't. You think he took a break while he was bashing his head for years? Richard Campbell: "Then last week.." So he still got 170 shows to go.." Carl Franklin: That's great." Carl Franklin: Oh. Things were ticking along slowly until about a month or so I discovered your site and I thought. I've been promising myself I would email you guys and thank you for the great job you're doing and how it has revolutionize my business. Built right in. Carl Franklin: Yup. Carl Franklin: Painful. Since then I've been hooked.. Richard Campbell: I'm just trying to get my head around that. Awesome. This guy didn't have a Richard Campbell: "And I was like what the heck is source control? Well." Carl Franklin: Good for you. Richard Campbell: I think it's enough to know that there is such a thing as a date control or a calendar control in WPF built right in. I'm just saying. since I am the boss. "I won't lie to you. I can read a little of it and indulge an email although I thought of this one particularly funny. Richard Campbell: Yeah. http://www. I was listening to another legacy show where you were quoted on how few companies do unit testing. it has helped me remove several major headaches I used to experience in our development cycle before I Transcription by PWOP Productions. hey. I don't think I could listen to myself that much. 2009 Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: So there you go. I saw Page 3 of 18 . Richard. his head was a little Yeah. it was tough especially since just before I began the two-years stint I just figured out how to solve a programming problem that I have been bashing my head on for years. and then I run out of time to code it before I left.. No.pwop.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. I came onto the realization that I have two years of technology to catch up on and your show is the perfect medium for doing this. a few weeks ago I was listening to a legacy show where Carl made a comment saying who doesn't use source control nowadays?" Carl Franklin: Yeah. Since it's Thursday. After listening to a few shows." Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: imagine doing that.

Richard Campbell: sweepstakes is on. Carl Franklin: That was 2006. I think it will be in Las Vegas but I'm not sure. check it out. Kind regards. criticisms. Richard Campbell: Montreal. Carl Franklin: Yeah.NET Rocks! mug. but if I was able to get some swag that I could wear or use around the office. do you remember show Transcription by PWOP Productions. during show 200. Richard Campbell: Mark. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Yeah. If it makes us laugh. Well. Yeah. 2009 went on hiatus and now I've increased my business productivity concerns. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: 200? We'll read the flame if it's good Absolutely.. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: show 500. you would not only make my week but also contribute to making several other programmers that I worked with extremely jealous.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. In show 300. I interviewed you and show 400 was a dismal failure. one for him and one for his favorite employee. Richard Campbell: together. Now I know I owe you guys already. I watched it all the way through because I'd totally forgotten about it. and Geoff Maciolek was here and we all did this quiz show. Thank you. And all the previous hosts were Richard Campbell: "Thank you for your great work. Carl Franklin: enough. Richard Campbell: Yeah. It's a ." Carl Franklin: You know what. And TechEd. I think he should have something to wear and something to drink coffee out of." Carl Franklin: Wow. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: it. I do remember show 200.. drunk in a bar in Carl Franklin: Yeah. Yeah. you've got Very funny. Richard Campbell: I totally agree. October to be exact. Richard Campbell: Well. Carl Franklin: So we've done so many shows now that the hundred marks seem to be meaning less and less to us. it was a couple of years Richard Campbell: Send dotnetrocks@franklins. Hey. I mean it was a couple of years ago. thanks so much for your great email. Carl Franklin: And a T-shirt. Mark Miller was here. Richard Campbell: party. but the hundredth show was like a fun look back. Carl Franklin: ago.NET Rocks! quiz show. one that they can rotate.pwop. Show 200 was a quiz show.. Page 4 of 18 . Indeed TechEd. Carl Franklin: That's right. We had some fun with the people that were on it and we also looked back and listen to some bits from critical shows. and if you've got questions. You know. ideas. I think we need to throw a Richard Campbell: "I will send that information to the gnomes at . yeah. us an email at Carl Franklin: Yeah. Richard Campbell: Yes. we got that on video and we just released it so it's up on the . It's in Silverlight but it's your standard DV format. It was the Quiz Show. we're going to throw a party.S. we did this thing that Richard and I called the 64-bit Question. Don't listen to it. Richard of course was here. Mark Pearl. maybe two mugs. anything is possible. Carl Franklin: In show 500. we're actually going to throw a party.NET Rocks! and we'll get that out to your right away. shows you'd like to see. Mark Dun was here. Carl Franklin: Absolutely. Drunk in a bar in Montreal. the TechEd Yeah.NET Rocks! website. or you’d just like us to talk less. http://www. thank you.. and there's a P. Rory Blyth was here. this year we get Richard Campbell: Employee of the month can get to use the other . thank you.

I want experienced speakers. Richard Campbell: It's incredibly hard to get and that's really how Speaker Idol came about which is recognition that it was so hard to become a speaker at TechEd. you win the finals. Richard Campbell: Because goodness knows if they're paying my bar tab. Isn't that great? Richard Campbell: It's awesome and it's a ton of fun for us to just find these new folks. Carl Franklin: And you've never spoken at a Right. isn't she like headlining or something? I mean. I went to the TechEd website and you know how they have pictures of the people who are doing sessions and stuff and she was up there. Carl Franklin: That is unbelievable because that's a coveted slot. Richard Campbell: By the way. there's a nice green sticker over on the right that says the TechEd 2009 sweepstakes. that's what we like Richard Campbell: TechEd before. Carl Franklin: Except your bar tab and your food and all that stuff. Carl Franklin: And you're not a speaker. Every week we're going to pull a winner from the correct answers and we're going to give that person a . but you'r e a n experienced speaker. she was the winner Carl Franklin: Definitely doing Speaker Idol which is a great contest in which presenters get five minutes to show their Page 5 of 18 . Transcription by PWOP Productions. they could have been in the Ask the Experts. Steve Smith was a winner. impress the judges. we're going to give away a ticket which is what we like to do. right Richard? Richard Campbell: to do. Keith Mayer won.pwop. Richard Campbell: Ever. Carl Franklin: Yeah. Richard Campbell: They could have done handson labs. Richard Campbell: doing Speaker Idol. I'm still recruiting contestants for Speaker Idol. Carl Franklin: I was going to say the big expenses are paid but. and so we had some great winners. you get the full right or you get to be a speaker at TechEd in 2010. then those weekly winners will be in the drawing on April 30 for the grand prize. and then we pick a winner. you go to the finals.. every Tuesday we're going to ask a question. is TechEd 2009 North America is going to be on May 11th to the 15th and Microsoft came to us and said how can we get the word out about TechEd and we said. Carl Franklin: I think Rhonda Layfield. 2009 Carl Franklin: So what this is all about. a trivia question from a previous show and if you're a listener. won. they could do any of those things but they haven't had got a break-out session because having a break-out session at TechEd is the hard part. http://www. to do a presentation.NET Rocks! mug. Carl Franklin: Oh yeah. "Why. You're going to see us.. I'm not sure about that. Carl Franklin: Right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. that would be the end of that show. Once you register. of course.S. Richard Campbell: And the grand prize is that free ride to TechEd. the really talented speakers that have never been able to get to speak at TechEd and came on the contest. Carl Franklin: Rhonda Layfield. we like to send some lucky winner of our sweepstakes: a ticket. you know. and airfare kind of just like the royal you've been listening to the shows you should have no trouble answering the questions. hotel. Carl Franklin: What do they win if they become the person who impresses the judges? Richard Campbell: If you win Speaker Idol. every week.. So here is what you do. Absolutely. and are now TechEd speakers. the bar tab is questionable. Carl Franklin: Right. we'll be all over TechEd this year. we will talk about it!" Of course we're going to not just talk about it. Go to dotnetrocks.. Richard Campbell: All expenses are paid. Richard Campbell: from last year. click on that and then you need to register with us. Still unsure but we're definitely Richard Campbell: Rhonda Layfield. you win your hit. So if you're going to TechEd U. so… Carl Franklin: Absolutely. that means you gave a five-minute presentation. we might be doing this 64-bit question live. I just want guys who have not spoken at TechEd. you know.

They were focusing on the top line. we're doing some dumb stuff. yeah. Pat Hynds: I'm a security MVP now and that is a dated. MCDBA. Carl Franklin: Good Lord. more markets. Carl Franklin: So you're a security MVP? Carl Franklin: And he's been on our show. Named by Microsoft as the Regional Director for Boston. now it's time to talk to Mr.NET Rocks! He was the first guest on Mondays and he was the first guest on RunAs Radio. a little bit. Pat Hynds: But actually it wasn't even significant then so I'm outdated but that's okay. In spite of the demands of his management role at CriticalSites. Page 6 of 18 . Site Server was Yeah. 2009 Richard Campbell: So again send us an email dotnetrocks@franklins. that kind of thing too. Carl Franklin: Yeah and that's on everybody's mind right now. Transcription by PWOP Productions. He has been a successful contractor who enjoyed mastering difficult troubleshooting assignments. I've seen some stories to the effect that the technology sector is actually weathering the financial storm here and holding fast.. Pat Hynds: significant. just use the bio from last one.. Let me just read your bio here. you'll back a little at the bottom line and go. What's your take on this whole thing? Pat Hynds: So my sources say that we're not out of the woods yet. Pat. Pat.and those are just like five or six of his certifications. A graduate of West Point and a Gulf War veteran. It sounds like there still are going to be a few layoffs in the IT sector that we haven't seen yet. Pat? Pat Hynds: seven years ago. He has experience in addressing business challenges with blended IT solutions involving leading-edge database. if you'd like to participate in Speaker Idol. Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: A long time ago. helping companies understand what the security threats are and we're also branching out or I’m branching out now into helping companies with business problems with projects how to keep them from failing. Richard Campbell: And so in a reflective moment when you're not so quite frantically trying to sell. I think was show 167 which was a security update. It's not falling apart like retail is falling apart. Patrick brings an uncommon level of dedication to his leadership role at CriticalSites. but I keep my ear on the ground pretty well. what do you want us to say about you? You said. MCP+Site Builder and MCT -. I think IT organizations in Silicon Valley and around are probably going to take one more stab at allowing the economy to be blamed for them trimming things a little bit. And might we also add to this bio that you are like Mr. but I stopped about Pat Hynds: Yes. wow.. more products. Perl. Netware.. He is one of the few certified trainers in New England for Site Server. The last time you were on. Carl Franklin: Right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. we're developer security MVPs. UNIX. Carl Franklin: Well. like manufacturing seems to be. Pat Hynds is a Microsoft Regional Director. and a bit long from what I just heard.pwop. MCSD. Richard Campbell: Indeed. Sybase. but that was.. Carl Franklin: Yeah. dated bio.. web and hardware systems. my friend. Patrick Hynds was the first guest on . it was. He has got something like 75. doesn't it? Pat Hynds: It certainly is. Patrick stays technical and in the trenches acting as Project Manager and/or developer/engineer on selected projects throughout the year. an expert on Microsoft technology and experienced with other technologies as well: Websphere. Duane Laflotte and I both work at CriticalSites. more sales. you can follow Jack Welch's advice and just always fire the lowest 10% every year or you can let the economy be the bad guy. C++. Java. Carl Franklin: It does seem to be it can ring an excuse. I gave it up. where I think layoffs in other sectors have started to abate. he has been recognized as a leader in the technology field. Richard Campbell: I also think that it’s not just that the people are exploiting this opportunity but that for the past couple of years things have been going so fast people took their eye off the bottom line. we do a lot of security audits. 2006. Okay. Patrick previously taught freelance software development and Network Architecture. I speak at the Code Camps and I go to TechEd and the other events. Security.. Only 55. Carl Franklin: Absolutely. Pat Hynds. How many have you got. it's got to be. MCSE+I. Well. The Chief Technology Officer for CriticalSites. Pat. it's mostly the same stuff.

If you have an ROI. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Right. Richard Campbell: Right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. then. Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: surge sale. Richard Campbell: And there is some merit to that.. in that case I'll give you a discount and tickets to this and it was definitely a buyer's market even in the software industry. Richard Campbell: Absolutely and I think big things are starting to function. It's that the last major down term was an IT centric downturn and this time it's not. Richard Campbell: Or there are just few people around the office. Richard Campbell: Sure. It seems like with the Dot Bomb we had the same result. pieces of these are working and people are trying to get work finally. the DOW hasn't been going down into the sewer. I have the advantage that most of my customers I get to see how they're doing so there are not a lot of oversight into the market in general. And so we had this sort of Pat Hynds: You should be in a place that actually adds a value. not so much. if you're not in the auto sector or the finance sector. Pat Hynds: Right. So what if I buy this software before the end of March? Well. there's a huge amount of pent up money and the big thing is you have to be in a place that's not whimsical. there's a huge amount of money. "What is it you do?" Carl Franklin: What are you doing exactly? Pat Hynds: And people were getting discounts because it's like buying a car now. I mean not every business reflects that tightly on that. Right. You know.. you're probably okay.. Pat Hynds: March was actually pretty good because you had a whole quarter worth of pent-up demand and whatever was going to land landed in March. it's back over eight thousand again and even though a lot of people don't pay attention to that it's worth a techie’s while to watch the DOW because it's about whether or for the decision makers. http://www. Richard Campbell: It was almost like a panic. you may want to go home and rethink your life. but in the ISV side of things what we're seeing is almost no sales in January and February. Yeah. a lot of banks. you look at them and go. Pat Hynds: Then when I went to April. You've waited too long. February. Pat Hynds: Well. you've got to move quickly now. if you had a product that actually had a business case and someone actually could say. Richard Campbell: What is it you do? Why don't you go do it somewhere else? Carl Franklin: You should learn to recognize that look. It's hard to deeply. Richard Campbell: Yes. Right. Pat Hynds: Right. Well.. A lot of ISVs. Richard Campbell: And I also think it's one of the reasons IT guys are so jumpy. deeply discount consulting but we saw a little of that too. January. You could call them like black holes. Transcription by PWOP Productions. we can't just forget about this.pwop. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Absolutely. Pat Hynds: And then pent-up demand. Pat Hynds: The people who are spending the money they watch the DOW as if it's a heart rate monitor. Pat Hynds: I wonder what the economy would look like if people actually didn't lose sight of these things and we should just keep working without blinders on. you're going to survive if you don't do anything stupid. Pat Hynds: Consulting. Yeah. and March were not banner months for software companies. If somebody gives you that look. Carl Franklin: Page 7 of 18 . and things are picking up a little bit because there's a little bit of an uptake in the economy. 2009 Carl Franklin: Right. Bit by bit there's some corporate reports coming out and they're all not doom and gloom. yeah. I taught MBA school so that people that's making decisions on the money that's what they're doing and that's who you have to keep tabs on.

you know.they basically were encouraging people to lie. So these mortgages were being insured multiple times if you think about the slices of mortgages and those shares of those funds that were insured with mortgage insurance. now you don't have to have a job. they're assessing. Pat Hynds: I don't know.75% penalty on the loan. and everybody is counting on that. Carl Franklin: Oh. He talks about the giant pool of money being the trillions and trillions of dollars all around the world that people have to invest. So the mortgage companies were creating funds. So there is still a lot of money out there looking for a place to go. Pat Hynds: Yeah and that's the kind of feast and famine. that's essentially what happens so all of these investment money all around the world needs to find a place to go. and of course when that tanks all of those people say.pwop. these companies would go and say. 2009 Richard Campbell: And I did get to sense that even in technical field we took our eye off the ball of are we actually providing value to our company. the mortgage insurance that AIG provided. it needs to be somewhere. Well. I have a piece of this fund. Carl Franklin: Yeah. That's where leverage comes Carl Franklin: That's where leverage comes in. to wrap up the story. Carl Franklin: Yeah. well. it's at . Richard Campbell: Wow. can you give me mortgage insurance on that. The last quarter doesn't really bear that out. I believe that's a one percent penalty on the loan. Transcription by PWOP Productions. a guy who I have known for years with whom I did my first “refi” with back probably 10 years ago and he said that if you own a multi-family home even if it was a duplex and you live on one side and your parents live on the other. So they would get as many as they could and then they would sell that as a fund and they would sell shares of that to other people and of course the return was great because these are mortgages. who want cash out or who they perceived as having investment properties. they want more. and companies have to invest. Pat Hynds: You know. Pat Hynds: S o y o u 're basically trying to keep people with. you know. Yeah. We were in a feast environment. We were enjoying our technology. it's just that it's hard to make a pitch that we need a Facebook page when you're GM. you know. AIG is out of money because they can't pay off all at once. they came up with all sorts of crazy types of mortgages where you just had to -. and social networking I'm not bashing it. These mortgage companies that trade mortgages are the Wall Street firms. hey. and condos are also getting penalized in this as well. for example. any multi-family is considered an investment property. very easy to understand way. So the pendulum has slid very far back the other way. those checks are coming in all the time. you know. the pendulum has swung so far and I was talking about with a mortgage guy yesterday. what happens when people can't pay their mortgages. not only those funds go down and people lose their money but the insurance. Well. http://www. people want more than their 2% that their savings account gives them. Carl Franklin: Wow. Page 8 of 18 . people thought they had the luxury of time and energy to focus on things like social networking. they're buying up mortgages and from banks because the banks are the ones that gave them mortgages. I think it's kind of difficult for people in the United States sort of exploring and indulgence even and now they're sort of turned back to that bottom line thing. Yeah. that's true. and I shrinksterized that at shrinkster. how are you making the company better.. Carl Franklin: By the way. Pat Hynds: And if you take any cash out. you just got to say you have a job. that's where. You're talking about Pat Hynds: in. but what he basically talk about was the mortgage crisis. you know.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. and it needs to go somewhere all the time. Pat Hynds: derivatives now. so basically this giant pool of money sunk trillions of dollars into this mortgage. this sort of these funds and they wanted more and there weren't enough real mortgages out there to provide the supply for their demand so they started laxing the rules on who could get a mortgage. Oh. so you obviously like listening to the radio because you're listening to us so go check that out if you're not sure. and maybe around the world. I want my money. indeed. with the different stimulus that caused this downturn and I've got to tell you one of the best explanations I've heard was on a show on NPR called "This American Life" and the name of the s h o w w a s "The Giant Pool of Money" a n d t h e producer of that show actually sat down and explained things in a very. to wrap their minds around what actually happened in this recession. Pat Hynds: But it's all cautious money.

I think it was IE 5. Carl Franklin: Right. and some people certainly have different opinions on that. 2009 Carl Franklin: that's right. Agile technology. Pat Hynds: But most of it has to do with setting expectations and making sure that everybody understands what you're building.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. but those fail on average 60% of the time.0. something like that. we can talk about that. Carl Franklin: Yeah. Pat Hynds: I think that's part of it but I also think that a big part of the Scrum and other methodologies in Agile development use communication. Carl Franklin: Maybe. http://www. is if you can show that you're a good bet. and a consulting company specifically on security. that type of thing. Richard Campbell: They wouldn't call you if they weren't in trouble. they might call the software company and I do some work with architectural design in large deployments there because I do have the networking site as well. what they chose. Richard Campbell: But it was just a warning. that's all about I could say. Pat Hynds: Well. because of the challenges of communication. continuous integration. and they're regular customers. like the mortgages as a technologist or as a project.0 or maybe 4. Pat Hynds: But they're cheap so some people were willing to try it twice. Pat Hynds: I've seen back in the early days. Carl Franklin: Yeah. They'll use estimates for Silverlight with a VB programmer as if they're writing VB code. Pat Hynds: Now. we implemented it and it triggered a security warning. Pat Hynds: And because of the library we chose. back when the dotcom boom was in full swing. CriticalSites. the Agile methodologies like Scrum and those kinds of things do have a better track record. but because I'm involved in a production in a commercial software company. we integrated the one they picked based on features and functionality. if you look at the numbers overseas. Transcription by PWOP Productions. we had a customer. they work. Richard Campbell: Right. Richard Campbell: I c a n 't believe we still can't build software more reliably. they produce results but therein lies the rub. they just work. no names. Carl Franklin: Wow. Carl Franklin: Right. sometimes somebody picks the wrong thing or someone will try to go with two cutting-edge not realizing what they're getting in for. I get to see the insights of a lot of organizations and the insights of a lot of projects and I also get called in quite often when things are in trouble. Richard Campbell: I would wonder if that improved percentages have more to do with that methodology being newer and so the people who are embracing it tend to be more interested or dedicated to building software successfully. you're going to get funded. Pat Hynds: So a lot of times the technology isn't the problem most of the time.pwop. off-shoring. you're going to get the green light to go forward and one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is we're still. you guys probably do as well because you talk to so many people. we gave them a choice of three libraries to choose from. when they're in deep trouble and they need help. who we were doing PDF integration for information that was under HIPA compliance. Pat Hynds: Well. Pat Hynds: But when they're typically calling CriticalSites they're very paranoid. these Agile methodologies. right? Pat Hynds: Well. Yeah. on the browser. Test Driven Development. Pat Hynds: And so the opportunity here. Richard Campbell: Right. NTP Software. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Right. You know. a Page 9 of 18 . About a third of all the projects I've seen fail and I get a little bit of a unique perspective. the statistics I've seen recently were still averaging around 50% of technical projects fail. they produce results. Richard Campbell: Right. occasionally it is. Carl Franklin: Well. and if you guys don't mind I'd like to discuss a little bit. they're about 70% but still a third of the project has failed. But they're holding on to it.

Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Right. Right. you know. Pat Hynds: Well. and if you don't mind I'll go through them real quick. Richard Campbell: Right. Most people can't judge a project as successful other than by appearances and delivery date.. A project is not done until after the coding is done and lots of other things happen. Richard Campbell: Right. but there's nothing wrong with the technology. Pat Hynds: And it's so true because when you assume. which is don't be wishful -. which is not a default setting.. Because when you assume. Pat Hynds: I have four rules that I live by now and everyone of them has produced many scars when I veered from it and they're kind of conveniently rank by the one word rule or two-word rule or threeword rule and the four-word rule. 2009 Pat Hynds: It was just a warning. No yes. There's no such thing as yes but. everything worked. Go for it. never assume. It was unacceptable. we're just about to finish the project and he flipped. it was like our third demo. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: No. Pat Hynds: You’ve got to check status constantly. Wishful is really the thing that kills most people and most projects.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. If you're not paranoid early. but they're not going to be able to use it for another three months because you screwed up the QA plan. but you know.d o n 't t a l k to me about that. The second rule is never guess. That aside. Pat Hynds: So if you think the customer will appreciate the fact that you're done coding. if the browser has this setting set.let me say it again. Carl Franklin: That just means that the last mile is covered in other words. They just don't do it as well as they should and they don't do it early. So we had to negotiate our way out of the project near the end. well. You make an ass out of you Pat Hynds: In order to save it and we didn't save it. Richard Campbell: I think the word done is just an evil word because done for a developer and done for a business owner are totally different things! Carl Franklin: Yeah. buts. The customer's expectation was that we would fix Internet Explorer and we couldn't. you're going to be unhappy later. saw the demo. it's just a little thing and the C. go for it. in a vernacular don't is one word so don't be wishful. Perception is so much more important sometimes than the actual result. Transcription by PWOP Productions.. Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: Right. the answer is either no and this is why.a n d I know d o n ’t’s a contraction -. or yes with no other words. yeah. you got to verify things.O. buts. we really could. Pat Hynds: The one word rule and the most important thing is status. Pat Hynds: Exactly. what doesn't get check doesn't get done. Richard Campbell: Right.. and I think what you're touching on here is just because the software works and it's bug free doesn't mean that project is going to succeed.pwop. Carl Franklin: Sure. they're not going to be. I still consider it a failed project even though they didn't sue us and we lost some money but not a ton. there has to be no equivocation. If I ask you if something is done. but if they set that setting that warning goes away. Carl Franklin: Page 10 of 18 . Carl Franklin: Well. If it's not done when the coding is done -. What we actually did was we wrote a hack that allowed a script to change the setting on the browser but we were very clear in warning them that this was something that customers might not appreciate. Status is something that everybody does. Richard Campbell: Right. that's really where a lot of things go out in flames. we absolutely lost it because he said this is unacceptable and we said. http://www. Yeah. Pat Hynds: Well. Carl Franklin: Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: and me.E. you're breaking the third rule as well.

define that. it's not true. Pat Hynds: order comes. Just bill them by the hour. We've got a system now where everybody that works in all the companies I'm associated with where “no status no check. Pat Hynds: Fixed bid. Pat Hynds: I'll give you an example. and the customer could be me. if you don't send me the status regularly. but we had to educate them. Pat Hynds: Right. Time and materials. amazing how motivated people are. without a specification what materials would make me happy? Richard Campbell: Right. You're never going to build a house on TNM but if you do your builder will love you because you'll never be done and it will cost you billions of dollars. okay.. no matter how important you are. Richard Campbell: The reality is going to hit you Pat Hynds: I will work for you TNM from now on until the end of time and happily rewrite. I think this floor is creaky. not in our organization. 2009 Pat Hynds: Most people get deep down in status late in the project when it's much harder to fix things. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: I love it. you don't get paid if you don't put in a status and if you don't put in a status then we assume you were not working so we can charge you vacation or we can just call it job abandonment. I don't like this type of countertop. so I understand what you want but here's an analogy.. If you have an opinion and no proof. Well. If I walk you through my house and I comment that I don't like the size of this bathroom. Pat Hynds: The never guess thing i s . Then the last rule is probably. Don't be wishful is all about if you haven't confirmed it with the customer.pwop. http://www. Pat Hynds: But if we as a group. Richard Campbell: Yes. it's usually when the court Nice. I'll pick my opinion over your opinion at any day. Carl Franklin: Right. status tends to be bad Richard Campbell: Yup. architects. Yeah. I want a house. Carl Franklin: Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: TNM. no estimate. But you're never actually going Well. I won't say it's the most important but it's the one that starts the seeds of destruction which is no spec. yeah. It doesn't come down to that because we look people in the eyes and say I will fire you. Richard Campbell: Right. That's right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. show me that. Pat Hynds: Well. I have a client that we dealt with a couple of years ago. Yeah. Pat Hynds: So you can't fixed bid it and if you do we're both going to be unhappy at the end of it because you're going to underestimate.” Richard Campbell: Interesting. recode. Good client. Richard Campbell: Yeah. you have no basis of really believing that the customer understands that this is going to work this way unless you’ve shown it to them and explain it to them and demo it. you pay for Page 11 of 18 . Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: to be happy. you’ve just got to say show me. engineers. no matter how brilliant you are. and I'm going to overestimate and our expectations will never meet. So we just kind of torture people over their guesses and say. can you actually go and build me a house that will make me happy without an architectural diagram. Okay. Pat Hynds: But a lot of people want a fixed bid price when they give a TNM spec.. I don't like the overall Feng Shui of the building. to make sure that they're not guessing. rework. Pat Hynds: It means you hire a landscaper and they come in and they do the work. if we can rein it in so that we fail 5% Transcription by PWOP Productions. can rein in that failure rate. You don't know the exact specification of the thing that would make me happy. developers. and if they work for 50 hours because you told them to dig up the same tree five times and move it. They walked us through their existing application and told us what they didn't like about it and then expected a fixed bid proposal for the new system and I said okay. okay.. Richard Campbell: news. then confirm with them. Pat Hynds: All you know is what I'm annoyed by. Richard Campbell: eventually.

don't forget to thank them for supporting . thanks. that kind of thing. Pat Hynds: Right and you have to be very explicit about CYA. an incredible grid. It sounds bad but you have to destroy any hope they have that you're thinking the way that they're thinking. A 3D chart. 2009 of the time. In other words. They recently rolled out their Q1 release which is just packed with good stuff. Start with Silverlight. One of the drawbacks of using third party tools is that you have to deal with numerous vendors so say goodbye to consisting quality in service level. Pat Hynds: And the deal can be working for your Page 12 of 18 . Richard Campbell: Yeah. a whole suite. chart.NET. new examples and scans. but I'm running out of time so just go to www. I mean. just expect it won't be there. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: Yeah. Richard Campbell: Right. Telerik is now offering a powerful solution for automated testing of modern AJAX applications. Pat Hynds: What browser versions we will support and no others. well. Richard Campbell: Yeah and the challenge is actually getting specific enough that you cover all the details. how about if you make it work. Our friends at Telerik. and if you're going to add it later it's going to cost more. if it's not shown or described in detail in this document. for example. what's up? And the guy said it doesn't work. are true one-stop shop for . Pat Hynds: If we can get it down to where project failure is a rarity instead of almost a certainty in some cases.I mean.NET Rocks is brought to you by our good friends at Telerik who bring you this message. And hey. That puts great focus on the person reading the spec. Pat Hynds: And you need to be fair with them and say you have to understand that this is exactly what I'm building and when we're done then this is going to cost you X thousand dollars and if you expected something else to be in there.NET AJAX we got even cooler. and how about web testing.. Yup. yes. you have to define one or two things you're not going to Carl Franklin: Yeah. they're afraid they will lose the deal. Pat Hynds: By it being explicit. The traditionally strong ASP. you get to a much better result but a lot of people are afraid to set those expectations. Pat Hynds: Yeah. Richard Campbell: Yeah. It's always possible to mis-estimate but one of the things you do is you tell people not only what you're going to do but what you're not going to do. in fact you end up with more things you're not going to do than what you are going to do. Pat Hynds: I find for everything you say you're going to do. if I give you a spec I'm going to give you everything this document says and nothing more. Richard Campbell: Sure. Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: That's pretty explicit. Win Forms. Right. Richard Campbell: Yeah. it will not be done. Then comes reporting. editor. and everything else. I'll get right on that. Well. Pat Hynds: The other thing -. WPF.NET Rocks! Communication is so key. Richard Campbell: Right. you name it. and I remember getting a call one day from this project that I was working on and hey. and be amazed. think about the productivity boost to the country and to the world. Carl Franklin: This portion of . how's that? Carl Franklin: Yeah. what back-end database versions and libraries we will support and no others.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. Thanks for the input.pwop. estimation is a tough thing. Richard Campbell: Yeah. Pat Hynds: Right but I also find that if you set expectations early. It's called WebUI Test Studio and is developed in partnership with ArtOfTest. And I said. awesome. Fortunately. Hey. it could be that they will pick a different Transcription by PWOP Productions. 3D in Silverlight is coming soon as well. in web projects we state explicitly what resolutions we will support and none others. New controls. can you be a little more explicit? He said it doesn't fucking work. it won't be. that's not always the case. http://www. Visual Studio extensions for quick project kick-starts. That's Pat Hynds: So in other words.

Pat Hynds: I've also got experience with Indian offshoring but not through a team that we own or a team that we there's always someone out there who is willing to bid less to do a bad job. You let me know how that Pat Hynds: Yeah. and they say ridiculous. this new capability but you don't want to -. Well. you're not dabbling in offshore development. Yes. you do a lot of offshore work. they will get it wrong. Pat Hynds: Yeah. Unfortunately. they go off. Richard Campbell: Absolutely. I think as a client. The people in Cairo are actually employees. http://www.. but. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: Yes. I tend to see Rich Internet Applications everywhere. I know you do development here in the U. Richard Campbell: Okay. Isn't that awesome? problem. Pat Hynds: I'm actually willing to give away some of the hard one secret here if you guys want me to. Yeah. There are some kids you tell them what to do. Absolutely. So you got to pick your battles well. Yeah. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: And then they have an axe to grind with someone overseas and they've got a local buddy who they don't speak to anymore and they're godchild i s their kid. the road to hell is paid with good intentions. Richard Campbell: Yeah. they spend $30. so not employees of Page 13 of 18 ..NET applications everywhere. Hey. but the secret to offshoring are all the rules I just gave you. they've done everything. oh. What suited well for one technology isn't suitable for another and we definitely have a hammer and nail mentality. So status. 2009 developer to work on this new feature. Pat Hynds: And there are other kids where if you don't sit there and tell them which leaf to rake. Carl Franklin: Yeah.S. go for it. Pat Hynds: I'm not. that project is going to cost you $80. and then go the experts in those technologies. Pat Hynds: If I'm a web developer.pwop. Richard Campbell: Yeah. they figured out problems. they fall in the same kind of granularity. And Bob can do it in Access. Transcription by PWOP Productions. Yeah. You’ve had kids work in your yard probably. and they're just a machine. Richard Campbell: With 30 people. You know.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. it just seems to be the truth and I can't tell you how many times I've said. I tend to see ASP. Richard Campbell: Right. So that's the Pat Hynds: So developers. You know. Pat Hynds: And I've also got very good experience in dealing with the consultancy over in Egypt named DashSoft. the road to heaven for developers is paid with specifications.000 twice. they pulled stumps you didn't know needed to be pulled. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: works for you. So it's the same secrets as here but a bit more so. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: For nothing. I run a team of about 30 people over in Egypt running out in Cairo mostly. Pat Hynds: And unfortunately. You have to pick the right people which is true everywhere. That's a lot of work. And they get nothing out of it. Richard Campbell: Carl Franklin: Right. you'll leave them at 8:00 in the morning and by 5:00 they're done. Cheap. this weekend. Pat Hynds: As part of CriticalSites. If I'm a Rich Internet Application developer. all widgets are not created exactly alike.000 for that first phase. So I'll give you an example. Actually we have somebody up in Alexandria but they were down back in Cairo now. you have to set up a status system with people regularly and status is very specific to not only the task but to the person doing it. you need to first identify which technologies actually make sense and bring value.

talking to Stephen Forte and others. Pat Hynds: Exactly and I have checked resources and they can justify alternatives and they can talk about all sorts of things. Carl Franklin: Pat. right. that kind of thing. Richard Campbell: Yeah. do you do project management as well? I mean project management is a huge piece of this puzzle. again that I haven't oversimplified things. We do have quite a bit. explain something Pat Hynds: I d i d n 't badly. it doesn't really matter.pwop. I've only met a couple of one month resources in my entire life because they almost have to be in the same mindset as you to get it. full week to a month. Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: way though. most of them have probably been guests on your show and they're just so rare. you can give them a task and in a day or two they'll need guidance to make sure that they're on the right track. Usually I try to get on the ones that I think are either in the greatest danger or have the biggest Page 14 of 18 . Richard Campbell: It sounds like most of my experience talking to you. http://www. It's not micromanaging. Richard Campbell: Those are rare gems whether they're here or there. As long as I haven't changed Richard Campbell: And arguably thought through the problem more than you have and have found opportunities you didn't know about. Carl Franklin: Make sure they're not churning. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: my mind.. and what I found is a format for status reporting that he actually came up with that's very Transcription by PWOP Productions. every day you're talking to these guys. But if someone can't do a day's work without my intervention and stay on target. Richard Campbell: Right. Pat Hynds: After that. Richard Campbell: Okay. really earn the right. 2009 Richard Campbell: Absolutely. Bruce has got a lot of experience and I've been able to mine a lot from him and we've also built up a lot of experience together working on CriticalSites. they can't work for me. or somewhere else.E. Richard Campbell: And in any industry. So they're there. but you're talking to some of them -you talk to them twice a day? Pat Hynds: He is the C. What's much more likely is you get developers who fall into the one hour. it's a daily scrum. couple of days. Carl Franklin: Do you have any secrets to share about good project management styles? Pat Hynds: Yeah. you know. and that is there are some developers who I can tell I want a system like this and they go and a month later they're still on target.S. Carl Franklin: Sure.O and founder of NTP Software and that's the software company I'm associated with. Pat Hynds: I do. You can't treat everybody that No.. You know my buddy. you can't work for us. We found that if you're a four-hour person. They don't get the benefit of the doubt that they're a one month resource. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: hour people. Pat Hynds: Or they're going to be checking back with you more often than you check back with them.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. Those are incredibly rare people. I can check on them twice a day if it's an important task and I'm not willing to waste half a day to make sure they. yeah. I pick my projects very carefully. i t 's Yeah. a new technology. eight-hour. most of them run their own companies. In fact. four-hour. really. Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: coaching. I might check on them hourly for the first couple of days just to make sure they have all of the things they need. Right. Pat Hynds: W e d o n 't. Pat Hynds: So someone has to really. not at all. that kind of thing. So the majority of developers. Pat Hynds: I t d o e s n 't matter whether they're here in U. I've met one Wow. Bruce Backa. Pat Hynds: And when someone is learning a new task. Yeah.

Pat Hynds: And it lets me see the turbulence in their life. absolutely. So this is assuming the status is for the end of the day. Richard Campbell: Yes. and I got this library tested and checked in. that's one of the things that we'll let off the plate more often than anything else. If somebody is on a critical mission task and they keep getting bothered by the same individual to do things they didn't plan on getting done and I see on that other person who is doing the interrupting that their status report shows work being done by someone else. helps me identify the stuff that you’d normally have to be in the building to know. Pat Hynds: Yeah. “we got hit by a virus. look at all these great things. Pat Hynds: That's my status. Richard Campbell: Right. Yeah. Pat Hynds: And what did you plan to do but you didn't get it done and why? Richard Campbell: And funny that order of things is pretty much how you would explain it in the first place. it helps me identify problems. Pat Hynds: Right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April Page 15 of 18 . it also allows them to mark it to me and say look at what I've done. what did you get done? I don't need details. and we've said this time and time again. I'm glad you've mentioned alternatives because one of the other key indicators of a really good developer and somebody who is going to save you is someone who actually considers alternatives.” Richard Campbell: Right. Pat Hynds: And we'll also not be above having an architect look over the code of a project to make sure that the people following the right framework. 2009 useful which is what did you do today. Richard Campbell: Right. So I can be at TechEd and still Pat Hynds: Well. Richard Campbell: Yeah. Richard Campbell: Yeah. Carl Franklin: You really have to not be beholden to your ideas to be a good developer. actually it turns out that let's say there's five different ways to do something. that's true just because there's one solution doesn't mean it's the only one. he hasn't got my domain ready for my testing. It lets them complain to me and say I can't get Joe to go and do what he promised to do. Pat Hynds: Exactly. next week." Carl Franklin: Yeah. You really have to slay that dragon. http://www. I can ignore half of them because half of them are doing what they're supposed to do. and that's why it's a better solution and so we do code reviews where a developer will review another developer's code. What's the odds that the one you came up with first is the best? Richard Campbell: Yeah. If I get that from everyone and I read it. I'm also thinking how brief that description can be. Pat Hynds: Right. it's you're not in the building. you know what. Then the next part of it is what do you plan to do over the next time period tomorrow. I'll be honest with you. it's one in five. that ego. So that's the first part of it. I think we should do that a little differently. whatever. Carl Franklin: Pat Hynds: manage a project.pwop. and this is a direct quote from Bruce: "Most developers or technical people are so thrilled that they've come up with any solution to a problem they have that they go and implement it. Pat Hynds: You know. Pat Hynds: It's 2 0%. almost zero. What did you do that you didn't plan on doing? In other words what happened that somebody walked in your office and said. the right methodology. Transcription by PWOP Productions. Pat Hynds: They will pause it. So you should think about alternatives and you should war game and this is where extreme programming comes in where you have two developers in the same keyboard because they will bring up alternatives. I need to know I worked on the email messaging projects for etc. Richard Campbell: And I think the thing is we're dealing with offshoring. I can intercede to ensure that people get what they need and I can corral anyone who is on the wrong track. That's three paragraphs. Richard Campbell: So all those things that you pick up from wandering around you've got alternatives for. What did you do today. I need you to go and check this. What do you need from others and what are your problems? Carl Franklin: Yeah.

we're eventually going to get a vendor in. Pat Hynds: Right. Pat Hynds: So the problem with what we do is we give guidance to all techies. draw back their cape and point to the registry saying that we'll solve the problem that the company has been dealing with for two days that no one else could figure out. Richard Campbell: It's an English show. I mean if you're going to sit on something for a day. http://www. Carl Franklin: Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: I didn't see them You'll have to download them. Oh my God. Pat Hynds: Developers come up with the pride of accomplishment in solving a logic problem and making an elegant solution. I call Microsoft sooner rather than later because $150 support call to PSS is much cheaper than two days of senior resource who is asking the most senior resource how to solve the problem. Pat Hynds: Well. Pat Hynds: Network techies. you're impairing other people's work. a closet network guy. database guys and I say that with the greatest of fun. you're back to scientific method. have you restarted it?" Carl Franklin: That's awesome. want to Pat Hynds: You get five minutes and I know that we said never guess. Richard Campbell: Right.000 an hour meetings because they had so many people of such high rank in the bank or some other organizations sitting around and most of them weren't engaged in all of the conversation. Richard Campbell: Right. Richard Campbell: Of course not. not just that.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. But it will anyway because the people who run it. sit back and look around and think about the hourly rates of everyone in the meeting and then you'll come up with a basic how much is this meeting costing per hour. Richard Campbell: Right. Richard Campbell: Yeah. that's I'm a network guy myself. 2009 Carl Franklin: You got to get used to people coming up with better ideas or improving your ideas . Pat Hynds: And also not getting work done and not getting things developed and not getting things delivered. You're not only not doing your work. Have you seen the TV show The IT Crowd? Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: Yes. Richard Campbell: Right. Pat Hynds: Page 16 of 18 . Richard Campbell: Right. plumbers. or six shows in the first season and six shows in the second season. They want to walk in the door. Pat Hynds: Next time you're on a meeting. and I know I'm doing an awesome job as an IT guy when my phone doesn't ring all day. the people who use your network are so ingenious at finding ways to mess it up. Pat Hynds: And then they disappear and play a game of Halo. After that. Richard Campbell: Sure. they did three shows the first season. Richard Campbell: Yeah.pwop. BBC is so weird. Pat Hynds: So problems are the same way. There's another side of this and this more from the RunAs Radio side so Richard might relate to this very well. You get five minutes to guess. developers and network people. They're brilliant. I'm not going to incur $4. Pat Hynds: And I've been in meetings that were literally $20. Transcription by PWOP Productions. you're eliminating possibilities and you need to get to the point where you've proven you haven't introduced any new problems and if we have to. Richard Campbell: And impairing the most senior resource in the process. I love that show. but we give five minutes to strategize and try things and you must document everything you try so that you can undo it. Richard Campbell: This is a show where the guy answers the phone "Tech Support. Richard Campbell: There's a terrible ripple there.000 worth of downtime for a problem that PSS can give me a patch for tomorrow. You have to watch them.

and there is a detail requirement document which would actually be Transcription by PWOP Productions. if I can't think of anything that has been left out. Richard Campbell: Right. They made a spreadsheet and there was a salary and there is sort of a productivity factor. obviously some things are going to be left out but they should be trivial. Pat Hynds: Those are the people who take great pride in the technology. has this been done before. that whole mentality comes from I'm the smartest guy in the room. it’s just got to be complete. Betsy. and they didn't just layoff by seniority where the last person hired is the first person to go. you know. can you look at specification and decide whether or not it's hopeless or not? Carl Franklin: Just completeness. that's a good you mind if I share that with you? Carl Franklin: No. it's really an arrogance factor. 2009 Pat Hynds: things. Joel from Imagine It! recommended it to me and it's really a good book because he talks about the fact that ego is a problem and there's arrogance to value factor. Pat Hynds: Richard Campbell: Pat Hynds: It's the PIA factor. "Hey. and one of the things we're finding in this economy is the ratio that's acceptable has dropped way down.. I have an idea. You can work on it and you can get it done but it's going to be a circular development. there's no way to fixed bid I have an idea.we described him as the cow who gave twice as much milk and kicked over one of the cans so in the end we have the same amount of milk as any other cow but also a big mess on the floor. "I want to build a system that does this and it sells five products a day. Pat Hynds: one. that kind of thing. It will put Google out of business but I haven't written anything down yet. Richard Campbell: Right. Pat Hynds: So the first level is someone comes to you and says I have an idea." So the next level is a high level requirements document and it reads like a wish list. Thoroughness that when you have questions. you know. of specification and if you don't mind -. This is the brief email paragraph that says.pwop. the first level is scary. who write their own stuff on this side. http://www. there are no details and there are a lot of unanswered questions.. Pat Hynds: It's an awesome book. not a waterfall because you don't know what you're going to do until it's done. how easy is he to get along with though. Pat Hynds: Right. Joel Spolsky's Smart and Gets Things Done book? Carl Franklin: though. like all of those I will always take a fix cost over variable cost when I can." and it's good to tell you what they're hoping to get but it doesn't tell you anything about what an acceptable solution would Page 17 of 18 . No. entrepreneurs will come up and say. Pat Hynds: And you have to make sure that you're always are in balance. The pain in the ass factor. talked about a guy who -. when you read a spec and you have a question that is obviously going to impact the time. It's an arrogance factor. People call it. We Pat Hynds: Because there is no way to spec I have an idea. They'd want to write it themselves and. Richard Campbell: Listen here. You know. Richard Campbell: Yeah. you know. and in that case you should either run or verify that they have a very healthy bank account. Richard Campbell: There was a time when Stephen Forte and I were doing evaluations. or five levels actually. S o i t 's still those kinds of Richard Campbell: Well. why are we writing this. Richard Campbell: Right.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16. So that's something that I see a lot. Pat Hynds: So I have a scale of four levels. Have you read Joel on Software. and also there's that ability to look outside. I want to just build this thing. but that goes against the cowboy attitudes that are mostly in entrenched in the people especially off the keys. Please. Carl Franklin: I'm sure people enjoy being categorized like that. Yeah. I heard it was great Pat Hynds: So what do you guys look for in a spec? I mean. Richard Campbell: Yes. You know. The number of companies that I've talked to where they have done layoffs. Richard Campbell: I like that one. and you just hit on it. is there an appliance I could do this. Pat Hynds: Amen.

and would actually allow fix big project.pwop. Spending time to getting it done right ends projects sooner when they need to be ended. Pat Hynds: Carl Franklin: you next Pat Hynds: Exactly.NET Rocks! episodes and to subscribe to the podcast feeds. the functional spec with the technical spec completed allows you to say yeah. used cases. Pat. On . training developers to work smarter and offering custom onsite classes in Microsoft development technology with expert developers. 2009 enough detail on what they're willing to accept and not accept that lets a techie or an architect go off and write a functional and technical specification. and then there's a technical spec which is the blueprint for the application. Thank you again and we'll see Pat Hynds: And the next two documents are really where they probably meet the road and I usually like to combine them. For more . to actually get down to Carl Franklin: It was.dotnetrocks. but more so immediately it causes the conversation that sets people's expectations reasonably. and then I have another session on How to Write Specifications for Survival and Profit but there was a little bit too much overlap so I really can't present both sessions in the same event because there's just too much overlap in them.patrickhynds. Carl Franklin: Well. Right. audio mastering. Usually when you torture somebody they can get you to that point but if they're not technical they don't have the ability to go to the next level.franklins. I blog three times last week and I'm going to blog this week. and podcasting services. http://www. go to our website at www. I've been out of the community for probably over a year now. post production. I’ve started to blog again. Thanks. Carl Franklin: In Page 18 of 18 . Richard Campbell: Yeah. and you always bring a variety of perspectives on a problem so it's always great. I posted the slides up on my blog at www.NET Rocks! is a production of Franklins. p r o v i d i n g professional and Hynds is spelled H-Y-ND-S. I think it's an interesting topic but it's a little bit of a heavy topic. I'm back. and do have any white papers or resources people can pass out? Pat Hynds: I just did start a session on this exact topic and the title of the session that I gave at a Code Camp in New Hampshire and Code Camp in Boston last month is How to Prevent Project Failure. and occasionally I meet somebody who actually works regularly on fully spec projects based on those definitions and I also noticed that the success ratio on those is much higher.. No. I'm speaking at user groups and Code Camps and I'm starting to blog again and trying to actually add to the conversation and I appreciate the time you guys have taken to have me on the show and hopefully we can talk about less dry topics. Richard Campbell: that much detail.. Is there anything else that we missed that you want to cover? We're just about out of time. Pat Hynds: That's very “punny.NET Rocks! Carl Franklin: Pat.. no. online at www. do you speak about this topic.” Transcription by PWOP Productions. It's a functional spec which is like it's a mock up of the but I blog them. Pat Hynds: No. that should be pretty good.NET. it's always good talking to you. Software Project Failure. .. and could allow a fixed bid project with a lot of Richard Campbell: [Music] Carl Franklin: . this would take us X weeks and it would cost you this much money based on that number of weeks. That's really the gambit. Typically. online at www. I'm just happy to talk to you guys again. there's n o unanswered technical questions.pwop.NET Rocks! is recorded and produced by PWOP Productions. v i d e o . I won't start the puns. there's dedication in the specification.Pat Hynds on why projects fail April 16.

Sign up to vote on this title
UsefulNot useful