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demin tank vent filter- scrub CO2 ?
Precipitation squeezes for scale inhibition deposits
11 Mar 03 8:06
Is anyone aware of a filter for use on a vent for a large demin storage tank, where the purpose of the filter is to capture any CO2 which may be suctioned into the vent during tank drawdown. We have a large demin tank , and the CO2 absorbed during drawdown is causing the water CO2 concentration to exceed allowable limits for the boiler feedwater.
11 Mar 03 9:38
What is usually done for this application is to add a nitrogen blanket to the tank. The nitrogen blanket is maintained by a pressure system controlled by a regulator. As the tank is filled with water, the pressure builds and the gas is vented to the atmosphere. And consequently, as the water is pumped from the tank, the pressure drops and replacement gas enters the tank. It is common practice to equip storage tanks with vacuum relief valves or rupture discs that prevent a vacuum and subsequent collapse of the tank. Nitrogen blanketing can be applied to multi-tank systems and has the advantage of optimizing nitrogen consumption, since, as one tank is emptied the gas can be displaced to another. When water is transferred from tank to tank, the inert gas is merely exchanged. During filling or emptying the pressures vary, however relief valves are set to release at pressures above design pressure. Nitrogen blanket storage tanks will not support life and should be thoroughly purged before being entered by maintenance personnel. Signs warning of this hazard are normally displayed on nitrogen blanketed tanks.
11 Mar 03 10:42
Thanks , BIMR. I had forgot about the N2 purge option.
fitzgerald@pgnmail. you can use a vacuum degasifier
19 Mar 03 22:46
davefitz. A condensate tank is a major source of oxygen in the cycle.Page 2 of 6
Another useful design detail ( for large tanks) is to have 2 independent vents/ vacuum breakers. Pipe from the vent is immersed into this solution. I am unable to send message on your e-mail address. 2. If you are a power plant. the CO2 absorber may not be the complete answer because you are also concerned about absorbing oxygen as well.
21 Mar 03 9:33
file://C:\DOCUME~1\karthikr\LOCALS~1\Temp\HAQBY6KO. If you are a power plant. I've seen photos of tanks that imploded due to birdnests or other debris plugging the single vent. The immersed portion of the pipe has small holes through which the air gets sucked in.
12 Mar 03 15:21
Thanks Gajjar. Use of a floating cover. similar to that used in the oil industry in the condensate tank. My e-mail address is <david. you may also look at: 1. You may give an alternate address or write your fax no.
12 Mar 03 4:08
We have what is called a CO2 absorber connected to the DM tank vent. There is another simple design in which the absorber pot filled with KOH flakes is installed on the vent.htm
. N2 blanketing is usually a costlier alternative. Or. passes through the KCL solution whereby the CO2 gets absorbed and then enters the tank.com>-
12 Mar 03 17:42
You do have some other options. It is a pot filled with KCL solution located on the ground. If you need further information please put your e-mail address in this thread and we can then send you the details / drawing.
sound simple and reliable to me. This is still ongoing. safarimike@web. i am on the look out for the constructional details of a co2 absorber for dm tank.
. You usually design for about +2" W. and a fax : <david. we´re trying to solve this problem by using a 3 stage strainer with silicagel (to absorb moisture) and Sodium Hydroxide. The following e-mail addrersses should work. I will keep you informed about this. Unfortunately the construction is very bad.fitzgerald@pgnmail. Your N2 supply is likely from 3000 psig bottles so you will need multiple pressure step down regulaors to contol the N2 pressure in the tank.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org. both the KCl-scrubber and the KOH-bed.org
22 Apr 03 5:54
Dear Mr gajjar. Your solutions to the CO2 problem. Now we are trying to modify the filter construction.de
2 Jun 03 14:41
N2 blanketing is very effective but you have to make vacuum relief provisions to prevent the tank from collapsing on itself. most of these tanks are not designed for much in the way of positive pressure. could you pass me the details and drawing of both? my email: email@example.com
2 Jun 03 5:03
Hello. so the chemical collapsed after a few days. Also. it will of great help to me if you can pass on more information and a sketch. Fisher used to make a neat combo PRV/Vacuum Relief valve for this service. my e-mail id: kaicyem@ieee.C.Page 3 of 6
I am very interested in the CO2 scrubber you described.com> 919-235-6129 Thanks again
19 Apr 03 14:57
dear mr gajjar.
undergoing a cold startup every 2 days. how is your DM water being added to the cycle? If introduced into the condenser hotwell properly.. Demin water corrosivity is due mainly to low conductivity and dissolved oxygen content. What CO2 specs for boiler feed water do you refer to? CO2 can be a problem. as in a typical boiler system.
3 Jun 03 8:35
Have you looked at the Liqui-Cel membrane for degassing the condenser makeup? Please see their products at: http://www. Demin tank is likely stainless steel or lined.liquicel. but usually in steam condensate systems where CO2 generated in boiler from decomposition of carbonates causes problems: it "flashes" with steam and later dissolves into steam condensate to cause low and corrosive condensate pH.. Also. The massive steam venting from the HRSG during cold startup translates to huge condensate makeup requirements. likely also the boiler make-up water line to the deaerator scrubbing section.com/ Are you also having problems with high Fe in your condensate? What is the condenser tube material?
4 Jun 03 0:34
You likely need to do nothing at the tank. but then you typically feed volatile alkaline amines to control condensate pH. so degassing wouldn't be effective during initial operation anyway. the air removal system should take care of the problem. The original makeup nozzles were supplemented with added nozzles that discharge under hotwell water level. with zero dearation and zero degassing. you should not need to do anything to the tank. Cheers//
file://C:\DOCUME~1\karthikr\LOCALS~1\Temp\HAQBY6KO. the hogger/ vaccuum pumps don't work worth a squat. Are you spraying the DM water in over the tube bundle or just letting it flow into the hotwell? If you are making up to the DA.htm
. well in excess of the original design. Yet. and a suitably sized aux boiler. A better solution would be an official vacuum dearator with degassing and dearation sized as by experience with cold startup makeup.Page 4 of 6
Basic question however. The boiler feed-water deaerator will scrub and take out the dissolved CO2 AND O2 before the water sees the pre-boiler systems (economizers) and the boiler proper. Am I missing something? Good luck. have you checked it for proper operation?
2 Jun 03 15:23
cub3bead: The original condensate makeup to condenser was sprayed over the tube bundle for dearation and degassing. but the unit is now 2 shift cycling.
25 bar. But most CO2 in our case is from saturation at atmospheric conditions in the demin water storage tank. and we have a huge makeup requirement during startup.install new vaccuum deaeration system? . In Block 1 our steam conductivity is according VGB Guidelines. but our deaerator is working with 108 °C and 0. some CO2 is evolved from breakdown of the organic actived oxygen scavenger in the LP drum at 300F. Therefor a effective deaeriation does not happen.
12 Jul 03 4:36
Davefitz.install membrane deaerator? It seems there is no condensate tank. but Block 2 has since the beginning much problems with conductivity.htm
4 Jun 03 8:29
In our case . we have in our plant 2 Blocks. I´ve already done a test to fill most of the make-up water into the hotwell. that the makeup water is not going to the condenser as common. Cheers
14 Jul 03
file://C:\DOCUME~1\karthikr\LOCALS~1\Temp\HAQBY6KO. The only dearation and degassing occurs in the condenser as the makeup is sprayed over tubes and ejected thru the vacuum pumps.CO2 absorber on demin tank (?) .fixing the hog ejectors or vaccum pumps? . To explain my problem.. but this could be solved by modifying the sparges with a smaller diameter. It shows that the Oxygen could be reduced by 60%. it is going directly to the deaerator. some degassing occurs . just the condensor with large liquid surge capacity? Interesting problem. From the beginning we also had a few problems with the Oxigen. Block 1 has a deareator whick operates at 165 °C and the newer Block 2 is working at 108 °C only. . True.retrofitting existing condenser for vaccuum deaeration? . Micha safarimike@web. there is no dearator per se. If somebody has another idea. what do you think of cub3bead's comments? Is there a niche for this? Seems there are these options. I would be grateful to hear this. as I expected. wich get the same water from a demin tank.Page 5 of 6
03 1:27 Your basically right. during startup venting of the HP superheater.demin tank N2 blanketing? . Also. One more problem is also. but unfortunately it has no effect to the conductivity..
( 2-shift cycling combined cycle)
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7:46 deltacascade: I think you have the right summary. Wherever Water Matters.
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.grundfos.-done b)relocate the emergency makeup line from hotwell injection to above tube bundle spray to improve degassing-someday c)install new nozzles on makeup feed line to allow installationof a degassing membrane separator ( CO2 ) and demineralizer (Si). Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without express written permission. We are proceeding on the following plan: a) provided more cooling water to the vacuum pumps to improve their performance.being done d)modify the control logic for the HRSG's HP bypasss to minimize need to vent HP vent ( loss of condensate) during morning restarts..