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Cha|rman G|enna kramer Ladles and CenLlemen

l'd llke Lo call Lhe meeLlng back Lo order please 1he nexL lLem on Lhe agenda ls Lhe 17
SLreeL Canal
and lnner Parbor navlgaLlon Canal 8reach SlLes new Crleans Loulslana May we have Lhe
presenLaLlon please?

App||cant Sandy kosentha| member of Leveesorg 1hank you members of Lhe Advlsory CommlLLee l
know Lhls ls a loL of work we appreclaLe your belng here 1hank you Lo nlcole PobsonMorrls and
Lhanks Lo aL uuncan

8efore we begln l have here a copy of Lhe meeLlng mlnuLes from AugusL and ln Lhe meeLlng mlnuLes lL
sLaLes LhaL our nomlnaLlon needed Lo be lL sLaLes ln Lhe mlnuLes LhaL Lhe uS Army Corps of Lnglneers
unexpecLedly showed up and lnformed LhaL sLaff LhaL lL dld noL own Lhe breach slLe aL Lhe lnner Parbor
navlgaLlon Canal 1hls meanL LhaL Lhe owner had noL been noLlfled of Lhe nomlnaLlon

Dr kebecca Saunders Lxcuse me Could you speak up [usL a llLLle blL or reposlLlon Lhe mlcrophone or
Lurn Lhe volume up?

Mrs kosentha| lL's sLuck Lo Lhe LableCan you hear me now?

Cur nomlnaLlon was rescheduled for Loday because Lhe uS Army Corps of Lnglneers showed up
momenLs before Lhe meeLlng and unexpecLedly lnformed Lhe sLaff LhaL lL does noL own Lhe lnner Parbor
navlgaLlon Canal whlch ls Lhe sub[ecL of our nomlnaLlon and we were Labled unLll Loday Slnce Lhen
furLher record checklng showed LhaL we were rlghL LhaL [usL as we Lold Ms uuncan LhaL Lhe Corps does
own Lhe lnner Parbor navlgaLlon Canal and so l would llke Lo ask Ms PobsonMorrls when she geLs
back LhaL lf LhaL could be reflecLed ln Lhe mlnuLes

Cha|rman kramer Lxcuse me 1he CommlLLee was obllged Lo do LhaL because lL was noL clear LhaL Lhe
proper owner aL LhaL Llme had been nomlnaLed noLlfled 1haL ls whaL happened LhaL lL was noL clear

Mrs kosentha| ?es and we agreed LhaL was Lhe Lhlng Lo do and l wanLed Lo make sure LhaL ls
reflecLed ln Loday's mlnuLes

Cha|rman kramer Well l Lhlnk LhaL ls ln Lhe mlnuLes LhaL we were lnformed LhaL Lhe owner of Lhe aL
LhaL Llme known Lo Lhem Lhe owner of LhaL properLy had noL been properly noLlfled and we are under
suppresslon Lo even speak Lo you abouL LhaL

Mrs kosentha| And we agreed wlLh you LhaL LhaL was Lhe Lhlng Lo do and l'm sorry l musL be a
Lerrlble communlcaLor WhaL l'm saylng ls we wanLed Lo be sure LhaL Lhose facLs were ln Loday's
mlnuLes because noL everybody here was aL Lhe meeLlng ln AugusL

Cha|rman kramer WhaL facLs ls LhaL? 1haL we had Lo Lable lL because we undersLood LhaL Lhe owner
had noL been properly communlcaLed noLlfled?

Mrs kosentha| no no l wanL lL Lo be reflecLed LhaL lL Lurned ouL LhaL Leveesorg was correcL and
LhaL we had glven Lhe proper lnformaLlon Lo Ms uuncan

Cha|rman kramer Well l don'L Lhlnk LhaL LhaL LreaLs on our buslness Loday We are [usL dolng Lhe besL
we can wlLh Lhls so lf l

Gary Cooper Clenna excuse me WhaL she's saylng wlll be ln Loday's mlnuLes

Dr Saunders lL does wlLhouL saylng

Nat|ona| keg|ster Coord|nator atr|c|a Duncan Mrs kramer?

Cha|rman kramer ?es

Ms Duncan l'm Lhe one who wrlLes Lhe mlnuLes and l wlll be happy Lo make such a sLaLemenL ln Lhe
mlnuLes unless you guys have a problem wlLh lL

Cha|rman kramer Wlll l Lhlnk we all undersLood LhaL already so we have no problem wlLh LhaL Ms
8osenLhal We have no problem wlLh LhaL

Ms Duncan (aslde Lo Mrs 8osenLhal) l wrlLe Lhe mlnuLes for Lhe CommlLLee and l do my besL Lo make
Lhem as clear and LruLhful and coot beot as posslble

Mrs kosentha| We appreclaLe lL very much

8LSLn1A1lCn 8LClnS nCW refer Lo copy of owerolnL presenLaLlon

Mrs kosentha| As of november 14 Lhe appllcanL Leveesorg has collecLed over 4 dozen leLLers of
supporL LhaL should be nearly 4 dozen leLLers of supporL we musL be LruLhful represenLlng large
groups and Lhelr consLlLuencles Some of Lhe people and organlzaLlons who have submlLLed leLLers are
SenaLor Landrleu and MlLch Landrleu uouglas 8rlnkley hlsLorlan and auLhor of @be Cteot ueloqe !ohn
8arrlng hlsLorlan and auLhor of klsloq @lJe WalLer lssacson hlsLorlan and auLhor of 5teve Iobs We dld
noL know when he submlLLed hls leLLer LhaL he was wrlLlng Lhe blography of SLeve !obs ScoLL coot
beot presldenL of 1ulane And l also would llke Lo add because lL ls noL presenL up Lhere? LhaL we have
recelved a supporL leLLer from Covernor 8obby !lndel uS Congressman Cedrlc 8lchmond a leLLer from
naLlonal 1rusL for PlsLorlc reservaLlon a leLLer from Mr !ackson presldenL of Lhe Lower 9
Pome Cwners AssoclaLlon can'L undersLand And Mr coot beot !r also of coot ooJetstooJ
We have coples of all 43 of Lhese leLLers and l would llke Lo leave Lhe orlglnals here wlLh Lhe Loulslana
Cfflce of PlsLorlc reservaLlon and we would llke for a copy Lo be senL up Lo WashlngLon uC coot

1hank you very much We appreclaLe lL

l would also llke Lo menLlon one more Lhlng before we ask for people Lo glve supporLlng Lalks for Lhls

ur 5ounders soys sometbloq lo bockqtoooJ tbot coot be ooJetstooJ

Mrs kosentha| All of you have recelved a copy of Lhls leLLer from Colonel llemlng of Lhe Corps And we
would llke Lo Lake a momenL Lo address coot beot commenLs

Cha|rman kramer LeL us allow Lhelr commenL on LhaL as well and lf we may aL Lhls Llme enLerLaln Lhe
people who have come Lo speak for Lhls and Lhen we wlll leL hlm address LhaL and Lhen we wlll leL you
commenL on LhaL as well ln Lhe llghL of falrness

Mrs kosentha| Ck

Cha|rman kramer And l know LhaL you have a number of people here so and we ask LhaL Lhey hold lL Lo
a couple of mlnuLes each so Lhey wlll all have a chance and Lhen we wlll do lL LhaL way

Mrs kosentha| Ck LhaL sounds wonderful

Ms Duncan And may l ask LhaL each person who speaks say your name clearly so l can geL lL ln Lhe
mlnuLes please

t tbls polot tbe uvu of o speecb ot tbe oqost meetloq by Nlck nottls xecotlve vlce lteslJeot of
ulllotJ uolvetslty wos too 5oooJ poollty JlJ oot come octoss well eoooqb to ttoosctlbe oo oot tecotJet
nowevet o copy of tbls uvu ls ottocbeJ Mt nottls wos sttooqly lo fovot of tbe oomlootloo

Cha|rman kramer uo you have people here presenL who would llke Lo address Lhe commlLLee as well?

Mrs kosentha| Cnly one Lo my knowledge who doesn'L seem Lo be here yeL

Cha|rman kramer We wlll proceed Lhen wlLh Lhe uvu and Lhen we wlll do Lhe oLher genLlemen
1hank you

uvu tesomes wltb commeots of 8toJley voqel of tbe Notloool @tost fot nlstotlc ltesetvotloo Mt voqel
olso sttooqly soppotteJ tbe oomlootloo

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you very much

Mrs kosentha| 8oy coot ooJetstooJ doesn'L seem Lo be here so l guess !aneL

anet h|||pott spells her name l was a commlssloner of Lhe new Crleans under Ldwln Ldwards
and 8uddy 8oemer so l was Lhere durlng Lhe consLrucLlon of Lhe levees new Crleans Levee 8oard
uurlng LhaL perlod we were Lold 1) LhaL we were Lo provlde Lhe money necessary for Lhe levee
consLrucLlon LhaL Lhe Corps of Lnglneers soughL buL Lhe Corps of Lnglneers would deslgn and supervlse
Lhe levees LhaL were provlded ln addlLlon we had an ouLslde englneer LhaL looked aL whaL was belng
provlded buL l wanL Lo sLress LhaL we could noL deslgn Lhe levees and we could noL supervlse Lhe levees
We were merely Lold Lo provlde Lhe money requlred and durlng Lhe perlod under 8uddy 8oemer and
Ldwln Ldwards Lhere was no Llme LhaL we Lold Lhe Corps LhaL we dld noL have Lhe money LhaL Lhey

Mrs kramer 1hank you very much Ms hlllpoLL 1here belng no furLher commenLs Lhen may l ask
slr from Lhe Corps of Lnglneers

M|ke Swanda representat|ve of the US Army Corps of Lng|neers Well flrsL of all my name ls Mlke
Swanda and l work ln Lhe naLural CulLural 8esources secLlon plannlng Corps of Lnglneers My sLaff
and l are responslble Lo lnspecL all Corps of Lnglneers pro[ecLs Lo deLermlne lf any slgnlflcanL culLural
resources wlll be lmpacLed by our acLlvlLles ln accordance wlLh SecLlon 106 and 110 of Lhe naLlonal
PlsLorlc reservaLlon AcL whlch l'm sure mosL of you are famlllar wlLh 8uL before l geL lnLo LhaL flrsL of
all l musL Lell you how embarrassed l am and how sorry we are of Lhe mlsLake we made ln Lhe
ownershlp lssue LhaL was broughL aL Lhe lasL meeLlng unforLunaLely Lhe nomlnaLlon wasn'Ll wasn'L
aware of Lhe nomlnaLlon unLll Lwo days before Lhe revlew board meeLlng lL was ln our offlce buL ln Lhe
wrong secLlon of our offlce and so Lhere was a mad rush Lo klnd of geL Lhlngs LogeLher and a mlsLake
made ln real esLaLe when Lhey sald we dldn'L own lL So l'm here once agaln because l knew a loL of
people Look a loL of Llme and efforL for Lhe lasL meeLlng Lo be here all for noL [usL Lo have Lo come back
Loday So l wanL Lo Lhank everyone for reLurnlng and l wanL Lo convey how sorry l am personally LhaL
LhaL has happened 8uL l'm here Loday Lo Lell you wlLh a leLLer from Colonel llemlng LhaL yes lndeed
we acLually do own Lhe properLy Lhe norLh slde norLheasL slde breach slLe locaLlon oot
ooJetstooJ Loday

1hls was a very dlfflculL and challenglng nomlnaLlon Lo revlew My sLaff and l Cfflce of Counsel
Lnglneerlng ulvlslon CperaLlons and MalnLenance all are very lnLeresLed ln Lhe lPnC levee locaLlon and
Lhe evenLs LhaL occurred Lhere and Lhe consLrucLlon LhaL has happened Lhere slnce 1here ls no
quesLlon l Lhlnk we agree all ln Lhls room and aL Lhe Corps of Lnglneers LhaL Lhe evenLs LhaL occurred
Lhere were exLremely slgnlflcanL and had a ma[or lmpacL on Lhe llves of Lhe people noL [usL ln new
Crleans buL ln Lhe resL of Lhe counLry as well So l don'L Lhlnk LhaL polnL ls ln dlspuLe Where we found
our dlfflculLles and Lhls ls aL Lhe dlsLrlcL level coot beot how federal properLles are nomlnaLed and Lhe
process Lhe Corps of Lnglneers follows wlLh coot beot We generally Lry Lo look as closely aL Lhe
well we are Lhe federal governmenL we follow guldellnes and rules and regulaLlons And of course Lhe
8ulleLln 13 guldellnes LhaL esLabllsh Lhe procedures LhaL one follows Lo provlde daLa Lo provlde
lnformaLlon Lo properly evaluaLe lLs quallflcaLlons Lo be coot beot And Lhls lncludes several
challenges So we all goL LogeLher and dlscussed Lhls wlLh Colonel llemlng and we've come up wlLh a
leLLer unforLunaLely lL ls very dlfflculL Lo geL leLLers ouL of Lhe Corps of Lnglneers ln a coot beot
manner so l apologlze for you all noL geLLlng Lhls sooner 8uL ln lL lL does provlde our addlLlonal
commenLs on Lhe nomlnaLlon and l'd be happy Lo paraphrase or share commenLs or read Lhe leLLer
for folks who have noL seen lL ln Lhe audlence whaLever you would llke me Lo do

Cha|rman kramer (seems Lo ask CommlLLee for oplnlon) l Lhlnk paraphraslng lL would be saLlsfacLory

Mr Swanda Well Lo begln wlLh our flrsL commenLwell Lo begln our leLLer we do conflrm LhaL Lhe
properLy ls on federal land under conLrol by Lhe uS Army Corps of Lnglneers new Crleans ulsLrlcL And
LhaL we were noL golng Lo provlde speclflc Lechnlcal commenLs on Lhe 17
SLreeL canal breach slLe
because we do noL own Lhe properLy So speaklng speclflcally Lo Lhe lPnC easL slde norLh breach slLe
we belleve LhaL Lhe slLe lnLegrlLy evaluaLlon ln Lhe narraLlve ln Lhe nomlnaLlon form needs Lo be
sLrengLhened lL ls our vlew LhaL Lhe slLe ls noL easlly ldenLlfled along whaL ls now a recenLly
consLrucLed 4000 feeL long monollLhlc concreLe 1wall and earLhen levee berm As noLed ln Lhe
narraLlve Lhe norLhern boundary of Lhe breach slLe ls ad[acenL Lo a secLlon of Lhe orlglnal prekaLrlna l
wall and ls vlsually dlscernable aL Lhe norLhern boundary 1he souLhern boundary ls noL vlsually
recognlzable And lf you go ouL and sLand aL Lhe slLe Loday you can see a conLlnuous 4000 fooL long run
of masslve concreLe l wall and 1 wall LhaL runs Lhe enLlre lengLh beLween llorlda and Clalborne avenue
And lf you weren'L aware LhaL Lhe slLe was Lhere Lhere really would be no way Lo Lell lf you were new
Lo Lhe area Lo walk up Lo LhaL locaLlon and acLually know where Lhe slLe ls locaLed And so whaL l'd llke
Lo see whaL we would recommend ls LhaL Lhe guldellnes provlded ln 8ulleLln 13 LhaL requlre a more ln
depLh dlscusslon on how a slLe reLalns or does noL reLaln lnLegrlLy and Lhere are seven aspecLs of
lnLegrlLy LhaL we all follow Lo deLermlne lf a slLe has lnLegrlLy and Lhls ls very dlfflculL because we are
Well l'm noLSandy ls nomlnaLlng an evenL LhaL occurred aL a locaLlon and so l Lhlnk l'd be lnLeresLed
Lo see whaL Lhe 8evlew 8oard CommlLLee feelswhaL lnLegrlLy are we evaluaLlng? 1he boundarles of
Lhe slLe LhaL we are looklng aL noLhlng wlLhln Lhose boundarles ls more Lhan slx years old Slnce kaLrlna
breached Lhe locaLlon englneers have gone ln and compleLely removed everyLhlng LhaL was ln LhaL
down Lo 13 feeL below surface and replaced lL wlLh a 1wall whlch ls a masslve deeply foundaLlon
floodwall and replaced LhaL wlLh all new maLerlal all new berm maLerlal and obvlously fllled ln Lhe
breach So ln Lerms of Lhe regulaLlons and properLy Lype and lLs perlod of slgnlflcance how does one
evaluaLe lnLegrlLy ln Lhls case? 1he breach does noL exlsL Arleal phoLography LhaL you can see and Lhe
phoLography LhaL was avallable afLer Lhe breach occurred clearly shows whaL Lhe breach ls lL ls a hole
ln Lhe wall where flood waLers came Lhrough scoured coot ooJetstooJ sand deposlLs Lhere were
wlLhln Lhe boundarles of Lhe properLy none of LhaL exlsLs now lL doesn'L exlsL So lL ls dlfflculL ln
Lerms of Lhe lnLegrlLy Lhe Lechnlcal aspecLs of deLermlnlng lnLegrlLy how Lo evaluaLe LhaL So our
recommendaLlon ls Lo carefully go back and ldenLlfy exacLly whaL Lechnlcal aspecLs of Lhe lnLegrlLy we
are Lalklng abouL ls lL seLLlng ls lL maLerlals whaL exacLly ls lL and Lhere clearly deflne how each of
Lhose seven aspecLs of lnLegrlLy are meL or noL

Cur second commenL has Lo do wlLh Lhe lnformaLlon and Lhe oplnlons of Lhe auLhors LhaL were clLed ln
Lhe nomlnaLlon ln Lerms of Lhls hlsLorlc conLexL As we all know coot beot ln Sandy's presenLaLlon LhaL
much has been wrlLLen on Lhe evenLs LhaL occurred durlng Purrlcane kaLrlna and Lhere are many many
dlfferenL polnLs of vlew on how and why Lhose levee breaches occurred durlng LhaL sLorm And ln facL
Lhose very sLaLemenLs and commenLs LhaL some of Lhe sLaLemenLs and commenLs LhaL were made ln
Lhe nomlnaLlon are Lhe currenL sub[ecL of llLlgaLlon LhaL ls ongolng and does conLlnue ln federal dlsLrlcL
courL and Lhe nexL Lrlal l belleve ls Lhls !uly So we would llke Lo reemphaslze LhaL Lhe narraLlve needs
Lo be carefully revlewed and edlLed Lo make sure LhaL personal oplnlons and any conLesLed facLs are
really noL presenLed as facL 1haL Lhe sLaLemenLs LhaL are oplnlon should be edlLed so LhaL we have a
clear and facLual descrlpLlon of hlsLorlc conLexL from whlch Lhen we Lhen can deLermlne ellglblllLy

And Lhe only oLher commenLs l've [usL goL a Lechnlcal commenL l've goL lnformaLlon on Lhe proper
owner of Lhe properLy should be llsLed as Lhe unlLed SLaLes of Amerlca and all of LhaL should be puL ln
Lhere and some changes ln Lerms of Lhe LlLle of Lhe properLy 1haL ls baslcally whaL we

Cha|rman kramer All rlghL Lhank you very much slr We appreclaLe lL very much l Lhlnk LhaL aL Lhls
Llme we have hear a nomlnaLlon LhaL has been placed before Lhe CommlLLee and aL Lhls Llme we need
Lo open Lhe floor for commenLs from Lhe commlLLee

Wayne Coco Mrs kramer l have Lwo commenLs l have yeL Lo see any documenL or hear wheLher Lhe
owner of Lhe 17
sLreeL canal or Lhe lPnC has come ouL ln publlc supporL of Lhls nomlnaLlon ls Lhere a
wrlLLen documenL of supporL from Lhe owners of elLher one or from boLh of Lhese breach slLes?

Ms Duncan no slr Lhere ls noL

Mr Coco Secondly my oLher quesLlon relaLes Lo Lhe area of slgnlflcance lL ls llsLed as dlsasLer under
oLher and l cerLalnly don'L know whaL Lhe nS conslders leglLlmaLe caLegorles LhaL would fall under
oLher uo we have any guldellnes as Lo whaL Lypes of Lhlngs mlghL fall under oLher?

Ms Duncan no slr we really don'L

Mr Coco uo you know lf Lhe nS knows or has Lhem?

Ms Duncan Well we have Lalked l have Lalked Lo our federal revlewer several Llmes abouL Lhls
nomlnaLlon and he ls Lhe one who Lold us Lo use oLher buL l have never seen anyLhlng wrlLLen up nor
have l ever heard of anyLhlng LhaL deals wlLh LhaL lssue

Mr Coco 1hose are my Lwo commenLs

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you Are Lhere oLher commenLs from Lhe commlLLee?

Dr Saunders LeL me ask Lhls ln Lerms of Lhe slLe boundarles ArchaeologlsLs are [usL obsessed wlLh slLe
boundarles lf Lhe breach ls noL Lhere whlch lL obvlously lsn'L where wlll you puL Lhe marker and how
wlll LhaL be deLermlned? Where would such a marker go?

Ms Duncan Are you Lalklng abouL?

Dr Saunders 8ecause Lhe breach ls noL where Lhe Lwo Lhe old wall and Lhe new wall come LogeLher
correcL? 1he breach ls lnLerlor Lo LhaL All LhaL has been replaced l'm [usL asklng Where would a
monumenL llke LhaL go?

n 8osworth r member Leveesorg l'm P ! 8osworLh !r coot ooJetstooJ 1he breach lsLhe
breach slLe aL Lhe lPnC ls abouL 200 feeL souLh of an exlsLlng flood conLrol sLrucLure AL LhaL exlsLlng
flood conLrol sLrucLure Lhere ls a hump or a drlver auLomoblle ramp a vehlcle ramp over whaL used Lo
be Lhe flood conLrol sLrucLure flood conLrol sysLem and lL drops lnLo an area LhaL ls supposed Lo
become a lock pro[ecL LhaL Lhe Corps has been worklng on for a year or Lwo And Lhe mosL approprlaLe
place for a marker would be 100 feeL norLh of LhaL norLh breach slLe 1haL would be a place where
people could walk up and see lL 1hey could see Lhe canal Lhe lower 9
ward downLown Lhe brldges
all of Lhese dlfferenL panoramas LhaL you can see aL LhaL slLe lL would be a beauLlful place for lL you can
see lL Lhere lL ls ?ou know ?ou puL an x on Lhe new wall l don'L Lhlnk Lhere would be any people who
would llke LhaL Loo much 8uL LhaL would be our recommendaLlon

Cha|rman kramer ls Lhere a hlsLorlcal marker aL Lhe lnner CoasLal Canal l mean Lhe lndusLrlal Canal
Lhere or [usL over on Lhe 17
SLreeL area?

Mr 8osworth AL Lhls polnL we have one aL Lhe 17
SLreeL Canal 8reach slLe and aL Lhe London Avenue
breach slLes 1he process LhaL Sandy and l wenL Lhrough Lo gaLher local supporL and Lhen mombles
acLually Lhe locals came Lo us and rlghL now ln Lhe Lower 9
Ward ln Lhe vlclnlLy of Lhe lnPC breach
Lhere are noL a loL of people Lhere Lo sorL of congregaLe or come LogeLher slnce Lhere enLlre
nelghborhood for a mlle ln each dlrecLlon was somewhaL desLroyed

Cha|rman kramer Ck Lhank you Anybody else from Lhe commlLLee here has any quesLlons? Any
commenLs Lo make?

Mrs kosentha| May l please respond Lo Lhls leLLer?

Cha|rman kramer ardon me?

Mrs kosentha| l haven'L had a chance Lo respond Lo

Cha|rman kramer Can Lhe commlLLee flnlsh lLs commenLs?

Mr 8osworth Ch excuse us

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you very much l Lhlnk LhaL you cerLalnly are very percepLlve and you have
worked very hard on Lhls l Lhlnk LhaL you can Lell LhaL Lhls ls a very uncomforLable documenL for Lhls
commlLLee Lo revlew And Lhe reason ls LhaL we are somewhaL puzzled and somewhaL ln awe of Lhe
amounL of Llme and research LhaL ls represenLed ln Lhls nomlnaLlon And lL ls sorL of dlfflculL for us and
ln all good and honesL splrlLs we have Lrled very very hard l have and l Lhlnk oLhers have Lo Lo sorL
Lhrough all of Lhe lssues LhaL you have ln Lhls documenL ?ou have many many lssues LhaL are shall we
say oLher Lhan slmply puLLlng a hlsLorlc marker on a place LhaLl mean LhaL everyone of us wlll agree
LhaL Lhls hlsLorlc marker ls wonderful lL ls poslLlve lL represenLs as Lhe genLleman sald who was here
before a renewal of new Crleans 1ourlsLs are lnLeresLed lL represenLs rememberlng Lhe loss of llfe
and everyLhlng else llke LhaL 8uL beyond Lhe purvlew of Lhls commlLLee ls Lhe lssues of englneerlng Lhe
lssues of oll company devasLaLlons Lhe lssues of many oLher Lhlngs LhaL flve or slx or seven lssues LhaL
you brlng lnLo Lhls nomlnaLlon And ln all good splrlLl mean you could make lL easy for us We could
say we'll have a plaque here for Lhls evenL LhaL happened and lL does a wonderful Lhlng 8uL we have a
documenL here LhaL as a commlLLee we have Lo send Lo Lhe nS and ln lL are lssues of faulL of
englneerlng are lssues of dlfferenL klnds of solls and whaL have you 8reaches LhaL l mean Lhere are
flve lwall breaches LhaL are breached and you have Lwo of Lhem 8reaches LhaL wenL all along Lhe
coasLal roadwhaL do you call lL Lhe maln channel LhaL goes all Lhe way ouL Lo Lhe Culf

Mrs kosentha| M8CC

Cha|rman kramer l mean Lhere are 30 breaches here And so whaL we have here ls much more Lhan
we are accusLomed Lo deallng wlLh as a commlLLee LhaL marks hlsLorlc locaLlons And lL ls noL Lhe
message lL's Lhe messenger And lL ls a documenL LhaL we have Lo say we approve of everyLhlng LhaL ls
ln Lhls documenL and Lhls ls whaL we wanL Lo send Lo Lhe naLlonal ark Servlce And we have l Lhlnk
lndlvldually and LogeLher a very dlfflculL Llme sorLlng ouL Lhe maln lssue lf LhaL and we are sLruggllng
wlLh Lhls And everybody here Lhlnks well yes of course lL ls a monumenLal place and people wanL Lo
walk up and see lL We wanL Lo say we don'L ever wanL Lhls Lo happen 1hls ls a loss of llfe 8uL you
know pages go on abouL levee fallures and canal fallures and pumps and all of Lhls klnd of sLuff LhaL
frankly Lhe experLlse on Lhls commlLLee ls hlsLorlc And so we have a problem wlLh Lhe nomlnaLlon

Mr 8osworth Ck so may l address Lhe commlLLee?

Cha|rman kramer CerLalnly

Mr 8osworth When Sandy and l flrsL declded Lo do Lhls we LhoughL Ck we wlll nomlnaLe Lhese
breach slLes we wlll plck Lwo represenLaLlve slLes and we'll geL a consulLanL and we hlred Mark 8arnes
and we sald Ck Mark Lhls ls whaL we wanL Lo do Pow do you Lhlnk we should proceed? So he sald
we're golng Lo wrlLe a hlsLory of how we goL here And ln order Lo explaln how new Crleans goL here
goL Lo where we were slx years ago he declded Lo dlscuss Lhe developmenL of Lhe new Crleans
dralnage canals Lhe navlgaLlon canals and how Lhey all developed and how Lhey all came abouL and
Lhen as he wroLe he began Lo ask us Ck whaL abouL Lhls lssue whaL abouL LhaL lssue We would flll ln
Lhe blanks and wrlLe a llLLle blL more Whereas we sLarLed wlLh a documenL LhaL was l guess less Lhan
20 pages long now lL's pushlng 30 and honesLly we Lrled Lo do someLhlng nlce and slmple when we
began 8uL wlLh lnpuL from Mark and wlLh lnpuL from aL and wlLh lnpuL from !ames CabberL on Lhe
naLlonal level Lhe nomlnaLlon conLlnued Lo grow pages were added pages here pages Lhere and whaL
lL has become ls sorL of a hlsLory of Lhe flood proLecLlon and dralnage and developmenL and navlgaLlonal
sysLem ln Lhe ClLy of new Crleans Lo layouL background Lo explaln why ln Lhe world are Lhey here how
Lhls happened how does a place llke Lhls even exlsL? So we provlded everyLhlng LhaL Mr CabberL Ms
uuncan and Mark would requesL from meeLlng on meeLlng we provlded Lhls how many Llmes?

Mrs kosentha| We don'L even know how many Llmes robably a dozen

Mr 8osworth And here we are We Lhrow ourselves on Lhe mercy of Lhe commlLLee saylng we're [usL
Lrylng Lo Lell Lhe sLory and Lhe message ls Lhe message and Lhe message was creaLed by several wrlLers
and several people ln Lhe realm of l'm an englneer and sorL of Lhe presldenL vlce presldenL of Lhe
Loulslana PlsLorlcal SocleLy l appreclaLe Lhls group and lL grew Lo whaL lL ls We feel as Lhough whaL
we've goL ls a good documenL Lhe documenLaLlon ls very Lhorough !ames CabberL from your naLlonal
enLlLy was very careful Lo make us Lo requesL LhaL we deflne each and everyLhlng LhaL he LhoughL was
maybe a llLLle lffy and LhaL's how Lhe documenL goL as large as lL dld And LhaL ls Lhe background
Sandy would you llke Lo add anyLhlng

Cha|rman kramer Well

Ms Duncan Mrs kramer

Cha|rman kramer ?es?

Ms Duncan As your naLlonal 8eglsLer CoordlnaLor l would llke Lo address a couple of your concerns
noL Lo sway you one way or Lhe oLher buL Lo glve you background lnformaLlon 1here are Lwo lssues l
wanL Lo address Cne Lhe lnLegrlLy lssue whlch Mr Swanda ralsed and Lhe oLher Lhe quesLlon of some
of Lhe conLenL of Lhe documenL

Cha|rman kramer Ck

Ms Duncan LeL's do Lhe lnLegrlLy flrsL When we Lold meanlng me when l flrsL Lold Lhe naLlonal ark
Servlce revlewer LhaL we were worklng on Lhls hls flrsL quesLlon was ls Lhere lnLegrlLy?" nlcole
PobsonMorrls and l wenL ouL Lo boLh slLes camera ln hand and looked aL Lhem Look loLs of plcLures
and analyzed Lo Lhe besL of our ablllLy undersLandlng LhaL nobody had ever dealL wlLh Lhls before

Cha|rman kramer 8lghL

Ms Duncan As Lo wheLher or noL we LhoughL Lhere was lnLegrlLy and for us Lhe boLLom llne on Lhe
lnLegrlLy was could you recognlze Lhe slLe? lf somebody wenL Lo Lhe slLe Loday could Lhey recognlze lL?
1haL ls a llLmus LesL we always use here ln Lhe Loulslana SPC Mr Swanda ls rlghL ln saylng LhaL we
should have addressed lL Lhe way Lhe naLlonal 8eglsLer addresses lL wlLh Lhe seven aspecL of lnLegrlLy
deslgn workmanshlp maLerlals locaLlon eLc Lhere are several of Lhem and LhaL can be done 8uL Lhe
boLLom llne for us was can you recognlze Lhe slLe where lL happened and l have Lo respecLfully dlsagree
wlLh Lhe Corps abouL wheLher or noL Lhe locaLlon ls recognlzable We belleve lL ls We senL a reporL
wlLh phoLographs Lo Lhe nS glvlng Lhem our oplnlon LhaL Lhe slLes do have enough lnLegrlLy Lo quallfy
for Lhe reglsLer and noL only our federal revlewer Mr CabberL buL Lhe keeper of Lhe naLlonal 8eglsLer
looked aL Lhe reporL and agreed LhaL Lhe slLes have lnLegrlLy now you as a commlLLee have a rlghL Lo
dlsagree wlLh Lhem lf you so choose buL l have Lo agaln respecLfully dlsagree wlLh Lhe Corps lL ls my
bellef LhaL Lhe lnLegrlLy of Lhe slLes ls Lhere So LhaL was Lhe flrsL Lhlng l wanLed Lo share wlLh you

Secondly l'm a llLLle confused abouL whaL parLs of Lhe documenL you feel are cloudlng Lhe lssue or LhaL
don'L conLrlbuLe Lo Lhe background you need Lo undersLand Lhe slLuaLlon And lf lL should be LhaL you
so order me as a sLaff Lo do so l would llke Lo work wlLh you Lo help clarlfy LhaL 8uL agaln many of Lhe
Lhlngs LhaL are ln Lhere are ln Lhere because l honesLly felL Lhey needed Lo be Lo provlde background llke
Mr 8osworLh sald on how we goL where we goL ?ou can'L expecL somebody oh ln Malne Lo plck up
Lhls documenL and read lL and undersLand whaL we ln Loulslana all undersLand because we llve wlLh Lhe
lssues of dralnage and floodlng and navlgaLlon every day Somebody ln cenLral Malne may noL have Lo
deal wlLh dralnage canals and such l know as l'm noL a naLlve of Loulslana as you guys all know and l
dldn'L undersLand Lhls sLuff Pad l noL worked wlLh Sandy l wouldn'L undersLand lL half way as well as l
do now 8uL l had Lhem puL some of Lhe sLuff ln Lhere because Lhls nomlnaLlon has Lo be undersLood by
!ohn uoe who doesn'L llve ln Loulslana and doesn'L undersLand Lhls lssue Maybe l dld overklll and
maybe lf you so order we can work LogeLher Lo help me undersLand whaL your problems are so LhaL l
can Lhen address Lhem 8uL LhaL ls whaL ls behlndl see LhaL Mr Lewls wanLs Lo ask me someLhlng

Lynn Lew|s 1haL was my problem wlLh Lhe documenL l Lhlnk lL ls overklll ln Lhe documenL 8ecause ln
Lhe flrsL read Lhrough of Lhls whole documenL whlch ls llke you sald ls nearly 30 pages lL was very
confuslng on Lrylng Lo keep Lrack of Lhose Lwo slLes LhaL were orlglnally nomlnaLed or sLaLed aL Lhe very
beglnnlng of Lhe documenL ?ou lose Lrack of where Lhey are ln all Lhls narraLlve And you are saylng
when you sald lL you sald somebody from Malne lf Lhey plck Lhls documenL up Lhey are really golng Lo
be confused l know abouL LhaL much abouL new Crleans buL l knew enough abouL lL Lo Lry Lo flgure
ouL where you were ln all of Lhls process and lL goL very very very confuslng And l Lhlnk LhaL's my
problem wlLh Lhls documenL ls Lhe confuslon Lhere And Lo brlng up all Lhese lssues as Mrs kramer
sald you know Lo polnL blame aL Lhe Corps on whaL wenL wrong and whaLever l Lhlnk lL ls a glven LhaL
someLhlng wenL wrong because Lhe Lhlng fell down lL's [usL a glven lL's llke beaLlng a dead dog Lo
deaLh agaln !usL beaLlng and beaLlng and beaLlng And l Lhlnk you lose slghL of whaL are you really
nomlnaLlng here? WhaL are you really nomlnaLlng ln Lhls Lhlng? And l Lhlnk lL geLs losL ln Lhls

Cha|rman kramer AcLually Lhe nomlnaLlon of Lhls slLe on Lhe naLlonal 8eglsLer doesn'L seem Lo be Lhe
end LhaL you are seeklng lL ls confronLaLlonal ln many lssues and lL seems llke Lhere are so many lssues
here LhaL are aL play LhaL maybe we are noL Lhe commlLLee Lo assess Lhe damage LhaL Lhe almeLLo
SLreeL pump dld and LhaL oh l mean l know a loL of LhaL new Crleans buL all of Lhose Lhlngs 8uL Lo
come ln here and say LhaL all of Lhese Lhlngs happened and LhaL lL ls somebody's faulL and lL keeps
comlng back Lo lL's somebody's faulL" And lf you would [usL make lL easy on us you know Lo say LhaL
we wanL Lhls place Lo be known we wanL people Lo know where lL ls we wanL Lo recognlze Lhe loss of
llfe and everyLhlng else llke LhaL wlLhouL feellng LhaL somehow or anoLher we are saylng shame on Lhls
person or shame on LhaL person or Lhls LhaL and Lhe oLher And lL's very uncomforLable lL's a very
uncomforLable documenL Lo read

Mr 8osworth lL was an uncomforLable Lhlng for everybody ln new Crleans Lo go Lhrough Loo

Cha|rman kramer ?es lL was My godson llves rlghL behlnd Lhe 17
SLreeL breach and l know how
uncomforLable lL was

Mr 8osworth We [usL Lrled Lo explaln whaL happened afLer Lhe facL baLLles occurred people dled

Cha|rman kramer Are Lhere any? ?es !ohn?

Dr ohn na|| Would lL be posslble lL may noL be posslble buL Lo reduce whaL we have ln sorL of an
absLracL of whaL was golng on and say Lhese are Lhe places where we Lhlnk Lhe monumenLs asslgned
oughL Lo be

ohn Sykes 8uL Lhere ls no slgnage we are noL glvlng slgns

Dr na|| WhaLever Lhey are

Mr Sykes We are nomlnaLlng slLes spoLs Lo Lhe 8eglsLer We are noL bulldlng a monumenL we're noL
puLLlng up slgns We are puLLlngLhese are nomlnaLlng slLes

Dr na|| Cf evenLs?

Dr Saunders Can you nomlnaLe a slLe Lo Lhe 8eglsLer lf Lhe landowner does noL approve?

Ms Duncan 1echnlcally LhaL ls a whole oLher compllcaLlon

Dr na|| Well l'm [usL saylng

Dr Saunders l'm sorry you have Lo be Lhe coot beot here

Mr Coco 1he quesLlon has already been ralsed by me and l have Lo say LhaL l cannoL voLe for Lhls
nomlnaLlon knowlng LhaL Lhe owners of Lhese slLes are noL ln supporL

Severa| peop|e ta|k at once

Mrs kosentha| We were noL Lold LhaL we had Lo requesL a leLLer Pad we known LhaL we would have

Mr Coco l Lhlnk a wrlLLen documenL

Ms Duncan no no Pold lL hold lL hold lL hold lL

N|co|e nobsonMorr|s D|rector D|v|s|on of n|stor|c reservat|on LeL me [usL say LhaL for Lhe record
l've spoken wlLh Lhe Levee 8oard We provlded Lhem wlLh a copy of Lhls nomlnaLlon l1he presldenL
of Lhe levee board And he ln Lurn advlsed me LhaL Lhey would make no commenL and Lhey dld noL
wanL Lo be presenL aL Lhe 8evlew CommlLLee meeLlng Pe felLLhey dldn'L wanL Lo express a feellng
one way or Lhe oLher wlLh regard Lo Lhe

Mr Coco So Lhey are noL ln supporL?

Severa| peop|e ta|k|ng over each other

Mr Lew|s 1hey are noL ln opposlLlon elLher

Ms nobsonMorr|s 1hey are noL ln opposlLlon elLher 1hey are [usL noL provldlng any sorL of
commenL 1hey wlll noL sLand ln Lhe way of lL movlng forward ls whaL he baslcally sald

Mr Coco uoes Lhe Corps of Lnglneers feel Lhe same way?

Mr Swanda Well from our polnL of vlew we have Lo follow regulaLlons ln Lerms of llsLlng our own
federal properLy Lo Lhe naLlonal 8eglsLer and ln our case Lhere ls a federal preservaLlon offlcer aL
headquarLers Cne ls ln Lhe Army slde and one ls ln Lhe Corps of Lnglneers slde of Lhe offlce and as l
undersLand lL frankly Lhe dlsLrlcL has never found Lhemselves ln Lhls poslLlon before so we are klnd of
much llke you all are Loday searchlng our way Lhrough Lhls process 8uL whaL happens ls ls LhaL
frankly Lhe Corps of Lnglneers new Crleans ulsLrlcL felL for several reasons LhaL we couldn'L formulaLe
an oplnlon on ellglblllLy because of Lhe lssues LhaL we ralsed Loday Much llke you we felL LhaL Lhe
nomlnaLlon wenL far beyond whaL was necessary Lo deLermlne ellglblllLy and wenL lnLo areas LhaL really
we felL are currenLly belng llLlgaLed So ln our vlew some of Lhe facLs sLaLed ln Lhe nomlnaLlon Lo some
ln our offlce are noL necessarlly Lrue

Cha|rman kramer Well excuse me l haLe Lo lnLerrupL you 8uL we cannoL Lake any llLlgaLlon lnLo
conslderaLlon aL Lhls Llme buL Lhank you anyway

Dr Saunders 8uL were Lhls edlLed so LhaL some of Lhe more conLroverslal Lhlngs

Mr Swanda LeL me conLlnue

Cha|rman kramer ?es

Mr Swanda So we couldn'L say based on Lhe lnLegrlLy lssues we felL and l dlsagree wlLh Lhe
assessmenL because l've been aL Lhe slLe as well ?ou can deflne Lhe norLhern boundary buL Lhere ls no
way Lo Lell oLher Lhan paclng lL off where Lhe slLe really does end 8uL LhaL ls for Lhe commlLLee Lo
deLermlne and for Lhe ark Servlce l assume 8uL once Lhe declslon of Lhe 8evlew CommlLLee Loday ls
made and our commenLs from Lhe dlsLrlcL have been provlded granLed Lhey don'L show supporL or non
supporL we [usL don'L know yeL frankly ln accordance wlLh Lhe regulaLlons lf lL ls ellglble 1haL package
ls Lhen senL by Lhe SPC Lo Lhe federal preservaLlon offlcer and aL LhaL polnL because hls perspecLlve ls
from a naLlonal perspecLlve We are llsLlng a federal properLy and for Lhe same reasons and for Lhe
same evenLs and for Lhe precedence lL seLs 1hls goes way beyond ln my vlew Lhe precedence of [usL
llsLlng an evenL Lvery lmporLanL evenL LhaL happens dally ln Lhls counLry has a locaLlon And some can
be aL Lhe naLlonal level some can be aL Lhe sLaLe level and some can be aL Lhe local level And be
prepared or maybe Lhe ark Servlce should be prepared for any evenL LhaL happens on a dally basls
1hls one ls slx years old now now l'm noL argulng Lhe polnL how lmporLanL Lhe evenL ls

Cha|rman kramer ?es

Mr Swanda lL ls Lechnlcal l geL off Lhe Lrack LeL me backLrack So anyway all your lnformaLlon your
declslon and our dlsLrlcL leLLer LhaL we've provlded and Sandy's vlews and commenLs lL ls all packaged
LogeLher and senL Lo Lhe federal preservaLlon offlcer aL Lhe Corps of Lnglneers Pe Lhen engages ln
furLher conversaLlon wlLh my dlsLrlcL commander maybe wlLh oLhers aL headquarLers who have an
lnLeresL aL a naLlonal level We've goL lssues wlLh

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you Cne more mlnuLe please slr Would you summarlze Cne more mlnuLe

Mr Swanda Ch l'm sorry So LhaL declslon wlll Lhen be made aL Lhe headquarLers dlvlslon and he ls
Lhe cerLlfylng federal offlcer who slgns LhaL documenL

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you very much

Mrs kosentha| 1hank you We really appreclaLe all Lhe Llme and efforL you are spendlng on Lhls
lmporLanL nomlnaLlon Cn Lhe leLLer from Colonel llemlng 1here are Lhree polnLs LhaL Lhey make 1he
flrsL one abouL lnLegrlLy we have already dlscussed Momblloq coot ooJetstooJ we have already
dlscussed lnLegrlLy We are golng Lo go sLralghL Lo 8 where Colonel llemlng sald Lhere have been
publlshed reporLs of dlfferenL vlews and analyses on how Lhe sometbloq bete l coot ooJetstooJ flood
waLers breached Lhe levee sysLem 8uL we know Lhey haven'L clLed examples and more lmporLanLly Lhe
Corps has noL dlspuLed any of Lhe facLs 8uL however we are happy Lo offer Lo conLacL Lhe Corps and
ask Lhem Lo glve us clLaLlons and glve us examples of facLs LhaL Lhey dlspuLe [usL wlLh Lhe caveaL LhaL
we have lL coot ooJetstooJ and Lhen you all coot ooJetstooJ

Cha|rman kramer l Lhlnk LhaL ls beLween Lhe Lwo of you rlghL? @beo sbe mombles sometbloq l coot

,rs kosentho/ soys somethinq l cont qet

Cha|rman kramer lf you are dlspuLlng wlLh Lhem

Mr 8osworth We are noL dlspuLlng anyLhlng @beo be ooJ 5ooJy tolk ovet eocb otbet

Mrs kosentha| no no no l'm sorry l musL be a Lerrlble communlcaLor 1hls nomlnaLlon ls facLs lL
ls noLhlng buL facLs 1here ls no coot ooJetstooJ no oplnlons Lvery word ln LhaL nomlnaLlon coot
ooJetstooJ checked and documenLed and backed up wlLh resource daLa 1he Corps has sald LhaL has
made a sLaLemenL LhaL Lhere are dlfferlng oplnlons on sLudles and dlfferenL vlews and analyses buL noL
provlded examples And Lhe lmporLanL Lhlng ls LhaL Lhe Corps of Lnglneers has noL dlspuLed any of Lhe
facLs of our nomlnaLlon

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you very much

Mrs kosentha| 1he Corps has noL

Mr Coco Madame Chalrman l would llke Lo call Lhe quesLlon

,rs kosentho/ continues to try to to/k

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you l Lhlnk LhaL our Llme apparenLly has explred as far as Lhe CommlLLee ls
concerned And lf Lhere are no oLher commenLs and we wlll Lake Lhls lnLo conslderaLlon We have a call
for Lhe quesLlon by Mr Coco 1he quesLlon has been called 8efore us ls a nomlnaLlon Lo place on Lhe
naLlonal 8eglsLer Lhe new Crleans Levee 8reach slLes 17
SLreeL and Lhe lnner Parbor navlgaLlon
canals All ln favor of placlng Lhls on Lhe naLlonal 8eglsLer ln Lhe form LhaL lL ls presenLed here may l
see a show of hands yes" All Lhose opposed lL ls opposed aL Lhls Llme

Ms Duncan Pold on please l need Lo geL everybody's names down

Cha|rman kramer ln favor of Mr Sykes Mrs 1urner and ur Pall And opposed Coco Lewls MarLln
Cooper Sanders and Wllllams AL Lhls Llme Lhls has been re[ecLed

Dr Saunders Can l [usL say LhaL l would supporL a nomlnaLlon LhaL was edlLed l would love Lo supporL
Lhls nomlnaLlon 8uL l Lhlnk lL could be edlLed ln such a way LhaL lL wouldn'L Lake a loL of work

Cha|rman kramer Llke l sald you could make lL easy on us

Mr Cooper oot ooJetstooJ wbot be soys ot fltst l Lhlnk we need Lo remove Lhe unresolved lssues

Dr Saunders 1hlngs LhaL lL ls noL lmporLanL Lo Lhe nomlnaLlon why Lhe levees falled

Mrs kosentha| WhaL? WhaL?

Dr Saunders lL's noL lmporLanL Lo Lhe nomlnaLlon why Lhe levees falled l mean l can Lell you care
deeply abouL why Lhe levees falled and so do l

Cha|rman kramer We all do

Dr Saunders 8uL lL ls noL necessary

Cha|rman kramer ?es

Dr Saunders And lL ls [usL golng Lo creaLe problems wlLh Lhe Corps and all klnds of oLher Lhlngs and lL
ls [usL noL necessary

Mrs Sue 1urner asks to be recogn|zed

Cha|rman kramer We have already called Lhe quesLlon uoes lL apply Lo Lhls?

Mrs 1urner l would [usL llke Lo make a commenL

Cha|rman kramer lease do

Mrs Sue 1urner l Lhlnk Lhe way Lhlngs have progressed l personally Lhlnk of Lhls nomlnaLlon llke Lhe
nomlnaLlon of many baLLleflelds Clvll war baLLleflelds any baLLlefleld 1here ls no way Lo glve Lhe full
hlsLory of all Lhe consequences LhaL effecLed why Lhe slLe ls even belng consldered Pad lL noL been for
Lhe flood and Lhe levees falllng would lL mean whaL lL does? And Lhlnk abouL Lhe book 8lslng 1lde
Pow many years away ls lL And here ls a whole book belng wrlLLen abouL Lhe levee sysLem abouL Lhe
pollLlcs l mean l Lhlnk we wlll be dlscoverlng Lhlngs for years buL lL wlll always be essenLlal LhaL Lhe
breach of Lhe levee aL Lhls locaLlon was a parL of Lhe devasLaLlon of Lhe clLy

Cha|rman kramer 1hank you very much Mrs 1urner

1he commlLLee moves on Lo oLher maLLers