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Date: 05/07/2008 Session: Regular

1851 1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 7, 2008 11 11:12 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR THOMAS P. MORAHAN, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23

24 25 Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1852 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 I ask for everyone present to 5 please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: In the 10 absence of clergy, I ask all of us to bow our 11 heads for a moment of silence. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Reading of the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Tuesday, May 6, the Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 5, 19 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 20 adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 23 as read. 24 Presentation of petitions. 25 Messages from the Assembly.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1853 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 Reports of select committees. 4 Communications and reports from 5 state officers. 6 Motions and resolutions. 7 Senator Bonacic. 8 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: You're 11 welcome, Senator. 12 SENATOR BONACIC: On behalf of 13 Senator O. Johnson, on page number 49 I offer 14 the following amendments to Calendar Number 15 770, Senate Print Number 7171A, and I ask that 16 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading 17 Calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 19 amendments are received and adopted, and the 20 bill will retain its place on the Third 21 Reading Calendar. 22 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 I move, on behalf of Senator 25 Marcellino, that the following bill on the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1854 1 order of first report be committed to the

2 Committee on Rules: Senate Number 4363, 3 Calendar Number 1013. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: So 5 ordered. 6 SENATOR BONACIC: Good job, 7 Mr. President. Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 9 you, Senator Bonacic. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 there will be an immediate meeting of the 13 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 14 Room. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There 16 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 17 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 18 The Senate will stand at ease. 19 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 20 ease at 11:14 a.m.) 21 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 22 at 11:21 a.m.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 24 Senate will come to order. 25 Senator Skelos. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1855 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 If we could go to the 4 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 271, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 602A, 9 an act to amend the Navigation Law, in 10 relation to providing. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 19 Announce the results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 585, by Senator Little, Senate Print 6715, an 25 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1856 1 adding. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 7 the roll.

8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 786, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 7155, 16 an act to amend the Parks, Recreation and 17 Historic Preservation Law, in relation to 18 establishing. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1857 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 840, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 8 6845, an act to amend the Penal Law, in 9 relation to the crime of making a terroristic 10 threat.

11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect on the first of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 20 Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays, 22 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1858 1 859, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 7261, 2 an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation 3 to designating a portion of the state highway 4 system. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 13 Announce the results.

14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 870, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 7203, an 19 act to amend Chapter 262 of the Laws of 2002 20 amending the Environmental Conservation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1859 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Announce the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 873, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7525, 10 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 11 Law and the State Finance Law, in relation to 12 collection. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1860 1 900, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 252, an 2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 3 creating and authorizing. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 12 Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 905, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1653, an 18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 19 instructional video on sexually predators.

20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 25 the roll. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1861 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 907, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1991, an 9 act relating to authorizing and directing the 10 Commissioner of General Services. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 19 Announce the results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 bill is passed.

23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 908, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2456, an 25 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1862 1 establishing. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 910, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4556, an 16 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 17 electronic equivalents. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1863 1 Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 928, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3922, an 7 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 8 disclosure of gifts. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the first of August. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Skelos, that completes the 22 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 if we could return to reports of standing 25 committees for the report of the Rules Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1864 1 Committee.

2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 Secretary will read the report of the Rules 4 Committee. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 6 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 7 following bills: 8 Restored, Senate Print 4363, by 9 Senator Marcellino, an act to amend the Public 10 Authorities Law; 11 Reported, Senate Print 3947B, by 12 Senator Skelos, an act to amend the Tax Law; 13 6160B, by Senator Skelos, an act to 14 amend the Tax Law; 15 7594B, by Senator Lanza, an act to 16 amend the Tax Law and the General Business 17 Law; 18 And Senate Print 7932, by Senator 19 Maziarz, an act to amend the Tax Law. 20 All bills reported direct to third 21 reading. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept 25 the report of the Rules Committee. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1865 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the 2 motion to accept the report of the Rules 3 Committee, all in favor say aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.")

5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (No response.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 9 report is accepted. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. If we could take up the third 12 reading of the Rules report. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1013, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 17 4363, an act to amend the Public Authorities 18 Law, in relation to providing. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1866 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Senator Marcellino, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 This is an opportunity to basically 6 say that the state stands behind its message 7 that we want our motorists to conserve and not

8 use fossil fuels whenever possible. The 9 purchase of high-mileage vehicles is to be 10 encouraged. 11 This bill encourages that by 12 providing a discount for vehicles that qualify 13 on the Thruway and on the E-Z Pass tolls. 14 This is an important piece of 15 legislation because it incentivizes the public 16 to go forward and purchase these vehicles and 17 drive in a "green" manner, and that is to 18 protect and preserve our natural resources and 19 to protect and preserve our environment. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. I will 21 vote aye on this important bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Marcellino will be recorded in the 24 affirmative. 25 Announce the results. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1867 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays, 2 0. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1084, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3947B, 7 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 8 exempting. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 10 the last section.

11 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 12 act shall take effect October 1, 2008. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1085, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6160B, 23 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 24 providing tax credits. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1868 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 8 Announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1086, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 7594B --

14 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside, 15 please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 17 bill is laid aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1087, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7932, 20 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 21 biofuel production. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1869 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Skelos, that completes the 10 noncontroversial reading of the Rules 11 calendar. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 If we could now ring the bells and 15 inform the members that we're going to the 16 controversial calendar. And within a minute,

17 we'll take up Calendar Number 1086. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: So 19 ordered. We will ring the bells to allow the 20 Senators to return to the chamber, and we will 21 resume in a moment or two. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 if we could now take up Calendar Number 1086. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Secretary will read. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1870 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1086, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 7594B, an 3 act to amend the Tax Law and the General 4 Business Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 6 Senator Duane. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 If the sponsor would yield, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator Lanza, will you yield? 12 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 When is the -- when will this tax 19 policy take effect?

20 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 21 through you, this bill provides for the 22 suspension of taxes on gasoline and similar 23 motor fuels between the Memorial Day and Labor 24 Day of 2008. 25 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1871 1 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 2 to yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LANZA: Yes -6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Can we 7 have a little quiet in the chamber, please. 8 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. 13 Has this gasoline tax policy been 14 tried in the past? 15 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 16 through you -17 SENATOR DUANE: In our state? 18 SENATOR LANZA: -- I believe the 19 answer to that is no, except with the 20 exception of legislation that was passed in 21 2006 implementing a cap on the gasoline tax at 22 $2 per gallon.

23 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue 25 to yield. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1872 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Has this tax 7 policy been used in any other states? And if 8 so, which ones? 9 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 10 through you, I don't believe it has. 11 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 SENATOR LANZA: But I would add, 14 Mr. President, that there are many states 15 across the nation that have significantly 16 less -- impose significantly less state tax on 17 a gallon of gasoline. 18 SENATOR DUANE: I'm sorry, 19 Mr. President, I didn't catch that. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Can't 21 hear you, Senator. 22 SENATOR LANZA: I said there are 23 many states, even neighboring states to 24 New York, which impose significantly less gas 25 tax on a gallon of gasoline.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1873 1 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue 3 to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 5 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DUANE: What are the 10 environmental -- anticipated environmental 11 results that are anticipated as a result of 12 this -- should this legislation pass both 13 house and be signed into law? 14 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I 15 guess what's being implied by the question, I 16 know that there are certain so-called 17 environmentalists that believe the price of 18 gasoline should cost more than it does today, 19 that it should cost $8 or $10 or $20 a gallon, 20 so that regular people across the state would 21 find it harder to get into their car to drive 22 to market, to drive to school, to go to work. 23 But this is a bill that would save 24 the taxpayers of this state money. It would 25 deliver much-needed relief to people who are Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1874 1 really hurting, finding it harder to make ends

2 meet because of the high price of gasoline. 3 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 4 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 5 to yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 7 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 10 Senator continues to yield. 11 SENATOR DUANE: I believe there 12 will be more discussion later on about what 13 the savings may or may not be to consumers. 14 But I'm interested in what the 15 sponsor's thoughts are, not the thoughts of 16 what has been characterized as so-called 17 environmentalists -- though I'm not sure 18 exactly who the so-called environmentalists 19 are. 20 But I'm curious as to what the 21 sponsor believes the environmental impact may 22 or may not be. Maybe there are none; maybe 23 there are some. But that's the question I was 24 trying to get an answer to, Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1875 1 Senator Lanza. 2 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 3 again, this is a bill that seeks to deliver 4 relief to people who are hurting across the

5 state, who are finding it harder to make ends 6 meet. 7 As we know, the pain of higher gas 8 prices does not end at the pump. Every day 9 goods and services are more expensive, from 10 the price of milk to eggs to bread. This is 11 really hurting the people, hurting families, 12 hurting business. So the idea here is to give 13 relief to people who need that relief. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 16 to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR DUANE: When the hearings 23 occurred on this bill, did any of the 24 environmentalists, the called 25 environmentalists or the so-called Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1876 1 environmentalists, did they have an opinion on 2 the effect this legislation would have? 3 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I 4 am aware of the fact that there are many 5 people and groups who call themselves 6 environmentalists who have expressed 7 opposition to this bill, who have been quite

8 honest about their reason for opposing it and 9 saying that they believe the cost of gasoline 10 in this state should be higher than it is 11 today. They believe that if the cost of 12 gasoline were $5 a gallon or $10 a gallon or, 13 in their wildest hopes, $20 a gallon, that it 14 would encourage people to stay home and not go 15 about their lives. 16 And so I understand the opposition 17 that comes from certain environmental groups. 18 But this is a bill that is much needed. 19 When gasoline approached $2 a 20 gallon a couple of years ago, the Legislature 21 in this state believed that it was a serious 22 enough problem for the people of this state 23 that a gas-tax cap was imposed. And so I'm 24 just going to have to disagree with those 25 people or those groups who believe that Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1877 1 gasoline should cost more and not less. I 2 believe that it should cost less. 3 I believe we have a responsibility 4 to deliver relief to the people of the State 5 of New York. And that's what this measure 6 will do. 7 SENATOR DUANE: And so, 8 Mr. President -- I'll just ask a more 9 simplified question -- was there a hearing or 10 were there hearings on this bill?

11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 12 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 14 Mr. President. 15 And, through you, the answer is no, 16 there was not. 17 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 18 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 19 to yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I will. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1878 1 Mr. President. 2 Was there a fiscal study done on 3 this? And if so, who conducted it? 4 SENATOR LANZA: I'm sorry, I 5 didn't hear the last part of the question. 6 SENATOR DUANE: I was asking if 7 there was a fiscal study done on the -- a 8 fiscal impact study done on this legislation. 9 And, if so, who conducted it? 10 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 11 through you, yes. And it was done by the 12 Senate Finance Committee. 13 SENATOR DUANE: I'm sorry,

14 Mr. President, I missed that. Senate Finance 15 Committee? 16 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Senate 18 Finance. 19 SENATOR LANZA: Senate Finance. 20 SENATOR DUANE: So through you, 21 Mr. President, do we -- can we see that fiscal 22 study? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Are 24 you asking the Senator to yield? 25 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1879 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I will, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR DUANE: And while we're 9 checking for the answer, I just want to -10 sharing is always nice. 11 SENATOR LANZA: Yeah, there is a 12 fiscal impact attached to the bill, 13 Mr. President. It reports a static figure of 14 approximately $600 million. 15 But of course, as we know in this 16 body, that the economy is far more complicated

17 than taking the number of gallons of gasoline 18 that we expect to be sold during this period 19 and multiplying it by 32 cents and coming up 20 with a number. That's how we arrived at that 21 fiscal impact. 22 That states the worst-case 23 scenario. Of course, we know that this will 24 have an economic stimulus to the economy here 25 in the State of New York. And so nobody knows Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1880 1 really what that number is. 2 I could tell you -- I could tell 3 you that because of the fact that gas costs 4 less, for instance, in the State of New Jersey 5 because they impose lower taxes on a gallon of 6 gas, that many people in the State of 7 New York, many businesses in the State of 8 New York go across the border to avail 9 themselves of those lower prices. And while 10 they're there, they contribute to that 11 economy, whether shopping or dining. 12 And so we know, when you consider 13 factors like potentially increased tourism 14 here in the state, the fact that neighboring 15 states, residents thereof, would come here to 16 New York to avail themselves of the lower gas 17 price, that there would be an economic 18 stimulus to our state. 19 And so I don't think anyone in this

20 room could accurately tell you the precise 21 impact on our economy. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 23 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 24 to yield. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1881 1 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 3 Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR DUANE: I don't have, and 7 I'm not sure anyone over on this side of the 8 aisle has the actual study that we could look 9 at the -- you know, the methodology. 10 I'm wondering about the actual 11 document, whether or not that could be shared 12 with everybody in the chamber, all the 13 members. 14 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 15 through you, it's pretty simple. I can give 16 you the methodology with respect to that 17 number. And there was an analysis and an 18 assessment of the number of gallons of 19 gasoline that are expected to be consumed or 20 sold in the state during this period of time, 21 and simply multiplying that number by 32 cents 22 per gallon to arrive at that number.

23 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 24 Mr. President, I'm becoming less optimistic 25 I'm actually going to get a copy of the study. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1882 1 So then who's -- who -- what 2 academic person or what economist was behind 3 the methodology for this study? Because I 4 don't have the study so I could look at the 5 footnotes on whose data, where they found it. 6 So I'm just trying to get at where these 7 numbers are coming from. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Senator Lanza. 10 SENATOR LANZA: Again, 11 Mr. President, as far as, you know, the math 12 here, it's pretty simple. 13 SENATOR DUANE: I'm not -- I 14 don't -- through you -15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 16 me, Senator. Let him continue with his 17 answer. If you have a further question -18 SENATOR DUANE: It's not the 19 math. 20 SENATOR LANZA: I'm not sure to 21 which higher academic authority Senator Duane 22 would like to hear from. From which. But 23 it's pretty simple. It's pretty simple math. 24 This number is arrived at by taking 25 the number of gallons of gasoline that we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1883 1 expect to sell in the State of New York during 2 this period of time and simply multiplying 3 that number by 32 cents per gallon and 4 arriving at this result. 5 Again, that is the worst-case 6 scenario. I don't believe that it will be 7 anywhere near that number, because anyone who 8 understands anything about the economy 9 understands that it's far more complicated 10 than that and that there will -- certainly 11 this will provide a stimulus to our economy 12 which will offset that simple, 13 simply-arrived-at mathematical number. 14 SENATOR DUANE: So through you, 15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 16 to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I will. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR DUANE: It sounds as if 23 we're talking about just a one-page study. Is 24 that correct? 25 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1884 1 don't know where we're going with the study.

2 If anyone has any difficulty in 3 understanding how we arrived at this number 4 beyond the explanation I've given, which is 5 pretty simple, eighth-grade math, we can 6 certainly talk about it at a later date. But 7 I think we've gone over this issue with 8 respect to this question sufficiently. 9 It's pretty simple for everyone in 10 this chamber to understand how to arrive at 11 that number -- which, again, ignores the 12 economic reality and the stimulus that this 13 bill will certainly provide, as evidenced by 14 what's going on in other states who provide -15 who impose a lower tax on a gallon of gas for 16 the residents of their state. 17 We know that, just for instance, 18 people in this state go across state lines to 19 avail themselves of that lower price. And 20 while they're there, they shop and dine and 21 provide stimulus to those economies, which 22 certainly offset the cost of the lower tax 23 being imposed. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 25 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1885 1 to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.

5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 Senator yields for another question. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 I'm wondering if the sponsor thinks 10 there's any downside to sharing the study with 11 everyone. 12 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 13 through you. Whatever analysis there is and 14 we have, I believe there's no downside in 15 sharing that. 16 SENATOR DUANE: And then through 17 you, Mr. President, if we could have that 18 study put on our desks. Because I think we'll 19 have time. People have a lot of questions, of 20 course, about this. So if we could start to 21 just share that with all the members, that 22 would be terrific. 23 Would that be okay with the 24 sponsor? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1886 1 Senator Lanza. 2 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I 3 think we should talk about the merits of the 4 bill and not talk about some perceived 5 difficulty in understanding a pretty 6 straightforward analysis of the fiscal impact 7 of this bill.

8 I've repeated a number of times 9 here this bill seeks to eliminate the 32-cent 10 tax that we impose on a gallon of gasoline in 11 the State of New York, which makes gasoline in 12 the State of New York just about the most 13 expensive gasoline in the United States of 14 America. And it's hurting families, it's 15 making it more difficult for them to make ends 16 meet. It's driving up the costs of just about 17 everything, from bread to milk to eggs. 18 And if you want to know -- and I'll 19 say it all day long, if you want -- the fiscal 20 impact that we have here is derived very 21 simply. Very simply. I think everyone in 22 this chamber can understand that when you're 23 going to take 32 cents off the price of 24 gasoline and you calculate the number of 25 gallons of gasoline that we expect to sell and Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1887 1 you multiply that number by the 32-cent 2 savings which we are trying to deliver to the 3 people of this state, that you come up with a 4 number. 5 That number, Senator Duane, is in 6 the neighborhood of $600 million. That again 7 is the worst-case scenario, because it ignores 8 all the economic stimulus that this bill will 9 provide to the State of New York. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

11 you, Senator Lanza, for fully explaining and 12 exploring the depth of the study about the 13 financial impact. 14 (Laughter.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator Duane. 17 SENATOR DUANE: So through you, 18 Mr. President, in the interests for this 19 question of just getting a brief response, I'm 20 assuming that the sponsor's answer to my 21 question was no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Lanza. 24 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, Mr. 25 President. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1888 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes, 2 it is a no. 3 SENATOR LANZA: Senator Duane 4 knows me well know enough to know that that 5 was the answer. 6 SENATOR DUANE: So in this case 7 "yes" is a no, we're not getting the study. 8 SENATOR LANZA: Well, 9 Mr. President, I think that was a question, 10 through you. 11 I have explained -12 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I 13 think I have the floor.

14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 15 me. Senator Lanza, we'll let Senator Duane -16 SENATOR LANZA: I thought I heard 17 a question, I'm sorry. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: We'll 19 let Senator Duane finish his question or 20 statement. 21 SENATOR DUANE: I just have one 22 economic question. 23 I'm just wondering if the sponsor 24 is familiar with price -25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1889 1 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 3 Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 5 Senator Duane, your question? 6 SENATOR DUANE: If the sponsor is 7 familiar with the concept of price elasticity, 8 and if that has been factored into the 9 analysis which we don't have. 10 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 11 that theory exists. Whether or not we reduce 12 the price of gasoline in this state or not by 13 taking and removing the tax, and so that all 14 else being equal, if you take or remove the 15 32-cent-per-gallon tax, the price of gasoline, 16 according to market conditions, would go down.

17 Similar arguments were made a 18 couple of years ago when the cap was placed on 19 a gallon of gasoline at $2 a gallon. And we 20 see that as a result of that cap, the people 21 of the State of New York are paying less than 22 they would otherwise be paying if we had not 23 instituted and imposed that cap. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 25 Mr. President, if the sponsor could continue Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1890 1 to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Was the State 8 Comptroller consulted on the fiscal impacts of 9 this bill? 10 SENATOR LANZA: I apologize. Can 11 you repeat the question? 12 SENATOR DUANE: Certainly. 13 Mr. President, I was wondering if 14 the State Comptroller had been consulted on 15 this legislation to have an opinion on the 16 fiscal impacts. 17 SENATOR LANZA: I don't know, 18 Mr. President. 19 SENATOR DUANE: And finally, my

20 last question, Mr. President, is when was this 21 legislation introduced? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Lanza, you will continue to yield? 24 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 25 Mr. President. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1891 1 It was -- I don't know precisely 2 when it was introduced. It was announced a 3 couple of weeks ago. I'll get the precise 4 date. April 16th, Mr. President. 5 SENATOR DUANE: And I meant to 6 make this a two-pronger. And when was this 7 last amended -- I'm wondering if this, through 8 you, Mr. President -9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR DUANE: When was the bill 12 last amended? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 14 Senator Lanza. 15 SENATOR LANZA: I don't have the 16 answer to that question, Mr. President. I 17 believe it was sometime last week. 18 SENATOR DUANE: On the bill, 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Duane, on the bill. 22 SENATOR DUANE: I'm going to be

23 very interested and curious to listen to my 24 colleagues on both sides of the aisle as they 25 debate this issue. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1892 1 I am saddened, though, that there 2 isn't an open sharing of information about 3 this legislation. We're in difficult fiscal 4 times in this state. Most New Yorkers are 5 also facing financially extremely difficult 6 times. This legislation may or may not have a 7 large fiscal impact for a number of 8 stakeholders. And so I think that it would be 9 best if we had all relevant information and 10 studies. 11 We have some time until Memorial 12 Day, and I think we could actually gather more 13 information before we made a judgment on this 14 legislation. 15 So, you know, I don't see what the 16 downside would have been to share as much 17 information as is available. But if that's 18 not to be, then perhaps my colleagues and I 19 will be able to get more information through 20 the rest of this debate. 21 And with that, Mr. President, I 22 know that many of my colleagues also have 23 questions. And I thank the sponsor for his 24 indulgence with mine. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: You

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1893 1 were explaining your vote, Senator. What is 2 your vote? 3 SENATOR DUANE: No, I was 4 speaking on the bill, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Okay. 6 Senator Krueger. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield, 9 please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator Lanza, will you yield? 12 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 17 My colleague Senator Duane had 18 raised some questions about the fiscal 19 analysis you did. So approximately, 20 regardless of debate about the financial 21 analysis, $600 million lost to the state 22 budget from this proposal. What are we 23 proposing to cut in the state budget that we 24 just passed, since we would have $600 million 25 less revenue? Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1894 1 SENATOR LANZA: Well,

2 Mr. President, I don't believe that that will 3 be the impact of this bill. I think to 4 believe that, you would have to believe that 5 nothing will change as far as people's conduct 6 and activity, that this will not provide a 7 stimulus to the economy. 8 I believe it will. So I don't know 9 what that impact will be, and I don't think 10 anyone in this room knows what the impact will 11 be. But I do know this. I know the impact on 12 family budgets across the state will be 13 positive. When you talk about cost, there 14 will be no cost to the people of New York. 15 There will be a savings, a savings to people 16 who desperately need that savings, perhaps, 17 and need it now. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 19 President, if through you the sponsor will 20 continue to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 24 Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1895 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 3 Mr. President. 4 I have to disagree. We will lose

5 that money in the state budget. But following 6 up on your point that it will be a savings to 7 the families, I believe in some of the 8 paperwork you talk about it saving 9 approximately $50 per household over the 10 course of the summer holidays. 11 How do we know that will happen? 12 You're reducing the tax, but there's nothing 13 in this bill that mandates that that tax 14 relief actually be provided to the gasoline 15 purchaser. So what evidence is there that the 16 wholesalers and retailers would move that 17 savings to the purchaser at the pumps? 18 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 19 first let me say that $50 a week or every 20 other week or every three weeks may not be a 21 lot to Senator Krueger and the people she 22 represents, but it's a lot to the people I 23 represent. And it's a lot to the people 24 across this state who are really hurting, who 25 are finding that the price of everything they Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1896 1 consume because of higher gas prices is going 2 up. 3 And driving, for people in my 4 community -- and for many people across this 5 state -- is not a luxury. It's not a luxury, 6 it's a necessity. We don't have the billions 7 of dollars of mass transit that the people of

8 Manhattan are blessed with. We've got to get 9 in cars to get around, to live, to get our 10 kids to school, to go to market and to shop. 11 And so $50 makes a difference to my family and 12 to the families I represent and to many 13 families across this state. 14 With respect to the second part of 15 the question, there's an anti-gouging measure 16 in this bill, similar to the anti-gouging 17 measure that was put in the bill that put a 18 cap on the tax that we impose at $2 a gallon. 19 So this argument was made then. 20 This argument, we found, did not 21 hold true with the cap that we placed on 22 gasoline tax. It won't hold true here because 23 market conditions won't allow it to happen. 24 And we've got proof again in our neighboring 25 state, which is only a few minutes away from Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1897 1 the community I represent in Staten Island, 2 and that's New Jersey. 3 And the State of New Jersey imposes 4 a lower tax on a gallon of gas than the State 5 of New York does. And guess what? 6 Mysteriously, the price of gasoline in 7 New Jersey costs less than the price of 8 gasoline in New York. That savings has been 9 passed on the consumer because it makes sense 10 to pass it on, because of the competitive

11 nature of business. 12 And so we've got proof right next 13 door that when you lower the gas tax, you 14 lower the price of gas. And that is what the 15 people of the State of New York need, and they 16 need it now. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 18 President, if the sponsor would continue to 19 yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Senator yields. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1898 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 2 I'm going to try again, because we didn't get 3 to my question. 4 One, your bill actually proposes 5 what would be conceivably a $50 savings if it 6 was to be passed through over the course of 7 the summer holiday, not one week or two weeks, 8 just for the record. 9 Two, again, what in your bill moves 10 this savings to the consumers at the gas pump? 11 Because you reference -- and thank you for 12 bringing it up -- we did this before, and the 13 data shows nobody saved money. The price of

14 gas has skyrocketed since the cap. 15 The gouging law was a failed model, 16 in that it's only a civil penalty if we 17 declare an emergency, so it has never been 18 used. 19 So again, this bill today, why is 20 this not simply a rollover to the largest gas 21 companies, who are making the largest profits 22 in the history of the gas industry? Why is 23 this bill actually going to not simply allow 24 them to suck up another 32 cents per gallon 25 into their profit margin? Where in this bill Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1899 1 does it say that this must be provided to the 2 consumer at the gas pump? 3 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 4 let me begin again by saying I don't know 5 where you get this $50 number. But let's say 6 it is $50. That's a lot of money to people I 7 represent who are trying to make ends meet, 8 who are trying to make hard choices already, 9 raising their families and trying to go about 10 and live out a good, decent life here in the 11 State of New York. 12 Fifty dollars, if we could save 13 people $50, if that's all we could save -- I 14 don't know where that number is coming from. 15 Perhaps people drive more in Staten Island. 16 In fact, they do drive more in Staten Island

17 than they do in Manhattan, because we have to. 18 We have to. 19 So if we could save people $50, we 20 ought to do it, because they're hurting. When 21 gasoline goes up 32 cents a gallon, people 22 hurt. And they feel it. So I somehow -- I 23 don't understand the argument that says if we 24 reduce the price of gasoline by 32 cents a 25 gallon that it really isn't worth it, that it Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1900 1 really isn't something. It is something. It 2 will matter. 3 And if you want to talk about 4 gouging and you want to talk about what the 5 oil companies will do, let's remember one 6 thing. The oil companies, over the last three 7 years, have made about 10 cents a gallon in 8 profit, 10 cents a gallon. Many here believe 9 that they're gouging the people of this 10 country. 11 If the oil companies are gouging 12 the people of this country and this state by 13 making 10 cents a gallon, what are we doing? 14 What are we doing here in New York by charging 15 them 32 cents a gallon? 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 17 President -18 SENATOR LANZA: And so that's 19 what this bill is about.

20 And if the Senator from Manhattan 21 seeks to find proof that this will be passed 22 along to the consumer, you need only look to 23 each and every state that imposes a lower tax 24 on a gallon of gasoline and see that in those 25 states, again, gasoline costs less. It costs Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1901 1 less because, of course -- of course -- that 2 savings is passed along to the consumer, 3 because the markets demand that it is. 4 And to say that, well, when we 5 imposed that tax two years ago and that now 6 gasoline is higher, to somehow suggest that 7 that has anything to do with that cap is 8 ridiculous. Gasoline is up all over the 9 country because of many factors we cannot 10 control. Because the price of crude oil, 11 which is about 72 percent of the price of a 12 gallon of gas, in every state is up, from $60 13 a barrel to $122 a barrel this morning. 14 So the proof that this will lower 15 the price of gasoline, the evidence that this 16 will lower the price of gasoline for the 17 people of New York is all around us. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 19 President, if the sponsor would continue to 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield?

23 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I will, 24 Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1902 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay. So 3 so far in our discussion we have it maybe 4 going to cost the state $600 million in lost 5 revenue, with no explanation of what we'll cut 6 out of the budget. But we have a hypothetical 7 that changing tax structure changes economic 8 activity. Fine. 9 Then we have a hypothetical that 10 maybe it's $50 -- maybe it's $200. I won't 11 even argue that, that you say the 32 cents 12 would save, because obviously it would be 13 individual, based on the amount of driving 14 that's used. 15 Again, I would submit that I have 16 read your bill carefully. There is nothing in 17 the bill that says this money will be 18 transferred to the consumer at the pump. And 19 in fact, the evidence from other states, from 20 our own state, because we've done a cap 21 before, is in fact that the money is not 22 transferred to the consumer at the pump. Just 23 the opposite. 24 Seven out of the 15 counties in the 25 State of New York who had done their own sales

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1903 1 tax cap when we did the cap actually have now 2 reversed themselves, showing that their prices 3 went up, their consumers didn't save, their 4 counties lost money for transportation and 5 highways and mass transit. 6 And ironically, the evidence from 7 our own state is that they increased property 8 taxes at the local level to make up for the 9 lost tax from caps like this where the 10 consumer didn't see a decrease in the cost of 11 gasoline, but in fact the counties saw a loss 12 of revenue that they then had to make up 13 through an increase in property taxes. 14 So from a tax-policy perspective, 15 this is a bit of a three-card monte game. 16 And in fact, while my colleague 17 Senator Duane asked you a series of questions 18 about your financial analysis and you admitted 19 that there wasn't that much -- but we have a 20 lot of hypotheticals -- there are 150 21 economists in this country, including Nobel 22 Prize winners, who have signed a document 23 saying this kind of gimmick will do nothing to 24 save people money but in fact will increase 25 the profit margin -Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1904 1 SENATOR LANZA: Is there a

2 question sometime in the future here? 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I am 4 getting to the question of the oil companies, 5 but I'm responding to your comment. And in 6 fact -7 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, is 8 there a question anytime in the future here? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 10 me. A little order here. 11 Do you have a question, Senator? 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I do. I'm 13 getting to it. Thank you, Senator. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Okay. 15 It's coming. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 17 It's coming. Thank you so much, Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR LANZA: So is Christmas. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: In 21 reference to also answering a point you made, 22 in fact, the oil companies' profits have 23 skyrocketed. Exxon Mobil just reported a 24 17 percent net increase in profits for the 25 first quarter of 2008, while pump prices Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1905 1 continue to skyrocket. The oil companies have 2 pocketed well over $100 billion in profits. 3 But I will ask you, we know -4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Here

5 it comes. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: -- and I 7 think we agree -- thank you, Mr. President -8 that a fundamental problem within our country 9 for all of our people, which are costing us 10 far more than the 50 or 100 or 150 dollars you 11 think your gas holiday might give someone, is 12 our dependence on foreign oil. How will this 13 bill decrease our dependence on foreign oil? 14 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 15 through you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 17 Senator Lanza. 18 SENATOR LANZA: First, with 19 respect to those Nobel laureates, I presume 20 the Senator from Manhattan means Al Gore, who 21 of course is on the record saying that gas 22 should cost more. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, he 24 wasn't one of the 150. He doesn't -25 SENATOR LANZA: We just have a Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1906 1 fundamental difference of opinion. Some 2 people believe that gas should cost $10 a 3 gallon so that people would not be able to get 4 in their cars, because they don't want people 5 to get into their cars. They don't want 6 people to be able to get around. They don't 7 want people to be able to have the freedom of

8 travel that people in this country presently 9 have. They don't want that. 10 I could respect that position. 11 People should be more honest about it. Some 12 have, like Al Gore, the Nobel laureate, who 13 says that gas should cost a lot more so that 14 we can keep people in their houses. I can 15 respect it and at the same time vehemently 16 disagree with it. 17 With respect to the fact that 18 there's proof that this won't reduce the price 19 of gas, that is categorically untrue. You 20 need only look around. Again, I hate to keep 21 giving -- plugging our neighboring state of 22 New Jersey, but gas costs less there. 23 I know. When I come to Albany, I 24 travel through New Jersey. Do you know what I 25 do? I fill up in New Jersey. When I leave Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1907 1 Albany on my way back, Mr. President, to 2 Staten Island, you know what I do, Senator? I 3 fill up again. Do you know why? Because 4 round trip, I save about $8. 5 It might not be a lot to some 6 people, Senator Krueger, in your district; it 7 might not be a lot to some people in 8 Manhattan, but it's a lot to me. It's a lot 9 to my family. It makes a difference. It 10 means a lot to the people in my district and a

11 lot to the people of this state. It means 12 something. 13 So whether it's $6, $8, $50 or 14 $200, people are hurting. We can talk -- and 15 I know Senator Krueger brought up Washington 16 and an energy policy. All good points. I 17 agree with you. We could talk about all the 18 reasons why we can't do something about this. 19 Of course we need a long-term energy policy in 20 this country. Of course a conservation policy 21 is something that is needed. Of course we 22 can't do anything about the speculation in the 23 oil markets. Of course we can't do anything 24 about traditional economic pressures of supply 25 and demand. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1908 1 Perhaps we could do something about 2 domestic exploration. If Senator Krueger is 3 concerned about dependency on foreign oil, 4 perhaps we can unlock the massive energy 5 resources that exist right here at home in 6 America. But of course people like Al Gore 7 and some of the people that have been talked 8 about, the so-called environmentalists, they 9 don't want us to do that either, 10 Mr. President. They want the price of 11 gasoline to go up, not down. 12 But again, look at New Jersey, 13 where they impose a lower tax on gasoline.

14 And you know what you'll find? A lower price 15 for gasoline. And look at other states that 16 impose a lower tax on gasoline. And you know 17 what you'll find, Mr. President? A lower 18 price for a gallon of gasoline. 19 Look to New York that has one of 20 the highest taxes, and you know what you'll 21 find? One of the highest prices in the United 22 States of America on the price of gasoline. 23 Is that a coincidence, Mr. President? No, of 24 course it's not a coincidence. Gas costs more 25 here because we impose a higher tax here. If Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1909 1 we impose a lower tax in New York, gas will 2 cost less. What is so hard about this to 3 understand? 4 And people need it. People are 5 hurting. They're hurting. And so we could 6 talk, we can play the blame game, we can point 7 fingers, we could talk about all the things we 8 cannot do. But that won't help people. 9 There is one thing we can do here 10 in the State of New York. There's one thing 11 we can have that will have definite, immediate 12 results. And that is to eliminate the tax 13 from the period of Memorial Day to Labor Day, 14 32 cents that we put on the price of gasoline. 15 And annualized, annualized, that's 16 about a 10 percent cut in the tax -- I'm

17 sorry, it's a 40 percent cut in the tax, 18 annualized, if we look at consumption 19 throughout the year. Which means it's around 20 a 12-cent break to the people of New York 21 State. 22 We can afford, Senator Krueger, we 23 can afford to give the people of the State of 24 New York a 12-cent annualized break in the 25 price of gasoline. Many people say we spend Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1910 1 too much. They're right. We can find a way 2 to spend less. Government should have to do 3 what people do and families do. Government 4 should find a way to do more with less during 5 difficult economic times. That's our job. 6 We'll find a way. Senator Krueger, you and I 7 and the members of this body, we'll find a 8 way, working together, we'll find a way to do 9 more with less. 10 People deserve, demand, and need 11 relief, and that's what this will do. 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. On the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator Krueger, on the bill. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 17 Thank you, Senator Lanza, for your -- I'm not 18 sure they were answers to my questions, but 19 for your passion.

20 We can do more. It's not this is 21 the only thing we could do. I disagree. I 22 would even argue that we won't do this, 23 because it's a one-house bill, so we will 24 spend the time talking. 25 But this bill does not guarantee Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1911 1 the money goes to the consumers at the pump. 2 And the data and the evidence shows that it 3 won't go to the people at the pump. So the 4 passion to try to save the money for your 5 constituents and my constituents -- because I 6 would agree, my constituents feel the same way 7 about the $8 at the gas tank or the $50 or the 8 $100. That is not unique to any geographic 9 section of the State of New York. 10 But this bill allows the 11 wholesalers and the refineries to keep the 12 money rather than pass it on to the consumers. 13 There is nothing in this bill that mandates it 14 goes to consumers. There is no legal way for 15 us to require them, after this bill were to 16 pass, if it were to pass, to give that money 17 to the consumers at the gas pump. 18 And evidence from our previous 19 attempts at this, and recorded documents from 20 economists who aren't just saying let it be 21 $10 a gallon but, if you read the report, say 22 this is a fiscal gimmick that won't save

23 people money and will increase profits for the 24 oil refineries and the big oil companies, that 25 this is not the way to do it even if that's Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1912 1 what you wanted to do. 2 I would argue that if this bill had 3 moved through hearings, as Senator Duane 4 proposed, rather than being dated I think 5 sometime in the last two weeks, that we could 6 have had discussions about what we could be 7 doing to both increase energy efficiency and 8 try to address the needs of the consumers of 9 the State of New York. 10 In fact, there were several other 11 bills we just passed on the floor that came 12 through the Rules Committee today that are 13 much more specific and targeted in giving tax 14 advantages to people who will purchase new or 15 used less-gas-guzzling cars. All right? 16 We are talking about and we are 17 moving legislation today that would give 18 incentives to go to non-petroleum-based 19 products for our energy system and the 20 potential for expanding the non -- I emphasize 21 non-corn-based ethanol, but rather the 22 alternative forms of ethanol that are being 23 developed. 24 We could, and I'm not sure where I 25 would be on that right now, but we could

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1913 1 create a rebate that specifically went to 2 people who drove their cars -- perhaps a 3 rebate for people who drove their cars to and 4 from work, perhaps a rebate for people who 5 drove their cars based on a progressive model 6 of their income -- where we could guarantee 7 that the money would actually go to the 8 consumer, not to the oil companies. 9 We could do that today. We could 10 do that next week. We could, in fact, push 11 for different kinds of mileage standards right 12 here in New York State through a number of 13 proposals, including being more active in 14 forcing our federal government -- you said 15 don't rant about the federal government, but 16 we're allowed to rant a little bit when the 17 federal government not only failed to do their 18 job but harms our constituents here in 19 New York State. 20 So we could be talking about any 21 number of proposals that would make more sense 22 than this legislation that are not exclusively 23 get-out-of-your-car proposals but, rather, 24 increase the efficiency of our vehicles, focus 25 on alternatives to foreign oil, and make sure Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1914 1 that if you say you're giving a tax rebate, it

2 actually goes to the consumers. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Just to 6 point out to the worthy Senator from Manhattan 7 that we passed a bill earlier, my bill, that 8 provided a credit -9 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President. 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: -- for cars 11 with greater efficiency and mileage. 12 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, 13 point of order. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: What's 15 your point of order, Senator? 16 SENATOR DUANE: Senator Krueger 17 has the floor. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Krueger. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: But in 23 fact, if I had been asked to yield for that 24 point, I would have pointed out I just said 25 that a few minutes ago, that we are moving Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1915 1 bills that make sense, including Senator 2 Marcellino's bill that passed half an hour ago 3 on the floor of the Senate. 4 So in response -- thank you,

5 Senator Marcellino -- to my point, Senator 6 Lanza said there's nothing else we can be 7 doing. And in fact, there are other things we 8 can be going doing; your bill is a perfect 9 example of that. So thank you for rising, I 10 suppose in my support, on this argument. 11 Again, you really have to sort 12 through the facts from the fiction -- thank 13 you so much -- because had we had some more 14 time to dialogue together, the Senator called 15 for a bipartisan approach to this. And a 16 bipartisan approach, if we had hearings, if it 17 even went through Senator Marcellino's 18 committee -- I don't believe this bill did, 19 since we just moved it through Rules today -20 no doubt he and other members of his committee 21 would have had some very good recommendations 22 that would actually be able to move us towards 23 our goals. 24 This bill has no way of 25 guaranteeing that the people of New York will Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1916 1 see a lower gas price. It has a clear 2 mechanism for the oil companies to keep the 3 entire 32-cent profit. There is no mechanism 4 in this bill for them to not collect it. 5 And again, I will refer my 6 colleagues to a report done by the Onondaga 7 County Division of Management and Budget,

8 their analysis of why the cap on sales tax for 9 gasoline and diesel did not have the outcome 10 you're proposing your bill would have. That 11 they are not continuing their own sales tax 12 cap because they did not find that they had 13 the outcome they wished to have, reduced price 14 at the pumps. They had increasing price at 15 the pumps, lower tax revenue for important 16 issues in their county, and higher property 17 tax at the end of the day. 18 And I've heard enough discussions 19 on the floor of this chamber to know that no 20 one is really interested in proposals that 21 result in higher property taxes and not lower 22 gas taxes -- excuse me, lower gas costs. So I 23 will be voting no, and I urge my colleagues to 24 rethink this and to vote no. 25 Thank you, Mr. President. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1917 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 2 you, Senator. 3 Senator Little, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. I 5 would like to ask Senator Krueger a question 6 in regard to some of the comments that she 7 just made. Would she respond? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Senator Krueger, will you yield? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I certainly

11 yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 Senator yields, Senator. 14 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 15 Through you, Mr. President, several 16 years ago in this body we removed the sales 17 tax on clothing and shoes and gave a holiday 18 on the sales tax on clothing and shoes. Were 19 we concerned about the retailer gouging the 20 consumer then? 21 And wasn't the point that we would 22 bring more people into our state to purchase 23 clothing and more people would purchase 24 clothing that week when they did not have a 25 sales tax on that thing? Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1918 1 I don't remember anyone being 2 concerned about the retailer doing the 3 gouging. It was a benefit, it was an 4 incentive, and it was a tax reduction for the 5 people of this state. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Is 7 that a question, Senator? 8 SENATOR LITTLE: Yes. Were you 9 concerned at that time? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 11 I appreciate the question. 12 No, I wasn't, because the sales tax 13 structure on clothing and shoes is different

14 than the way we've established the law on 15 taxes and gasoline. 16 So when you lift a sales tax that 17 is only applied at the retail level, collected 18 at the retail level, and in this case stopped 19 from being collected at the retail level, it's 20 very clear-cut. The tax is not paid by the 21 consumer, and the retailer does not owe the 22 money to the state or local government. 23 It is a different formula in 24 gasoline tax, where in fact the tax, quote, 25 unquote, is collected or not collected at the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1919 1 wholesale level. So the wholesaler would not 2 have to roll that savings to the retailer. 3 The retailer would not have to roll that 4 savings to the consumer. And in fact, under 5 this legislation, there would be no way for us 6 to ever see what happened there. 7 SENATOR LITTLE: Through you, 8 Mr. President, another question, if I may. 9 I thoroughly understand the sales 10 tax -11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 12 me. Let me just explain something. 13 A question has been raised that the 14 Senator did not have the floor when you asked 15 her to yield. However, you did stand up while 16 she had the floor, and that's why I allowed

17 you to ask Senator Krueger to yield. 18 So hopefully that will answer some 19 questions that people have risen to their feet 20 to ask. So I will allow the debate to 21 continue. 22 Are you asking the Senator to 23 yield? 24 SENATOR LITTLE: Yes. And just 25 in response -Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1920 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Do you 2 yield, Senator? 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I will 4 yield. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR LITTLE: Just an 8 additional -- I do understand the sales tax is 9 added on clothing and shoes at the time of the 10 sale. But couldn't the retailer increase the 11 price of that clothing and those shoes to 12 compensate for that reduced tax? They 13 certainly, in my mind, could have. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator Krueger. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. But 18 you would then see it, and you would see it as 19 an increase in the actual cost, separate from

20 and unrelated to the tax question. 21 Again, where the tax is collected 22 is much further back in the food chain, so to 23 speak, on gasoline than at the front desk 24 between the shopper and the clothing store. 25 So again, I will say it's not a parallel Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1921 1 argument. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 4 you, Senators. 5 Senator Klein. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 Would Mr. Lanza yield for a few 9 questions? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator Lanza, will you yield? 12 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you. 17 Again, through you, Mr. President, 18 my question to Mr. Lanza is, have you looked 19 into the other states that have actually 20 instituted gas-tax holidays? 21 One of the -- just to sort of give 22 you an outline, since 2000 there's been four

23 states, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, and 24 Indiana, who have instituted gas-tax holidays. 25 Are you familiar with those states and their Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1922 1 experiences? 2 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 3 the question have I looked into other states, 4 as I've said before, every week I look into 5 the State of New Jersey and I see that the 6 price of gasoline there costs significantly 7 less than it costs in this state. And when I 8 look further into what's happening in that 9 state, I find that they impose a lower tax on 10 the price of gasoline. 11 And so I know, because of the 12 experience in that state and experience in 13 other states, that by reducing the -- by 14 eliminating the tax that we impose of 32 15 cents, that I know the price of gas will go 16 down in this state. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: Again, through 18 you, Mr. President. Mr. Lanza, I'm not 19 questioning -20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR KLEIN: I'm sorry. 23 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 24 Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1923 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. Lanza, I'm 3 not questioning your passion. I'm trying to 4 alleviate some of the taxes on gasoline. 5 However, we are talking about 6 instituting a gas-tax holiday, and I think it 7 is important to see the experience of other 8 states. 9 The states that I did mention have 10 not had good results. As a matter of fact, 11 they did away with the tax holidays because 12 they found that the consumer was not sharing 13 in the savings, the money wasn't going 14 directly to them, so they did away with that. 15 So again, have you looked at those 16 other states and their experience with this 17 specific proposal? 18 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, in 19 the reading that I have done, some have 20 suggested that because the price of gasoline 21 has gone up juxtaposed to a reduction in the 22 tax, that somehow it was because that tax 23 savings was not passed along to the consumer. 24 But that ignores the very basic 25 reality that gasoline at its fundamental Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1924 1 level, across the country, has gone up,

2 because of the price of crude oil, other 3 factors of supply and demand. 4 And I guess the question I have is, 5 does that question from my good colleague 6 suggest that he believes that if we were to 7 eliminate the gas-tax cap that we presently 8 have in place in New York, does he believe 9 that the price of gasoline would not go up? 10 Of course it would go up. If we 11 doubled the tax on gasoline today -- because 12 gasoline is at $4 a gallon; we tax it only up 13 to the price of $2 a gallon -- does anyone 14 here believe that if we eliminated that cap, 15 the price of gas wouldn't go up? Of course it 16 would. Of course it would. 17 When you raise taxes, the price of 18 things go up to the consumer. When you lower 19 taxes, the price of things go down, whether 20 it's gasoline, milk, bread, eggs. That's just 21 basic economics. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Again, would 23 Mr. Lanza continue to yield, Mr. President? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1925 1 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 2 Mr. President. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Again, we talked 4 a little bit before about lost revenue. And

5 certainly our state gas tax goes to roads, 6 bridges. 7 How are we going to make up for the 8 loss -- and I think the number you cited was 9 $600 million. According to my conversations 10 with the State DOT, it's closer to 11 $629 million in lost revenue. How would we 12 make up that shortfall? 13 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 14 through you. First, again, we arrive at that 15 number by a very simple formula. We take the 16 number of gallons of gasoline, multiply it by 17 32 cents, we spit out a number. 18 Of course, as everyone understands 19 and appreciates here, the economy is far more 20 complicated than that. We know, from common 21 experience and from prior experience, that 22 when you lower the prices of goods that 23 there's an economic stimulus provided. 24 The same way I fill up my tank with 25 gas from New Jersey to save money, many people Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1926 1 in surrounding states -- Connecticut, Vermont, 2 Pennsylvania -- maybe Canada, they'll come to 3 New York, the way I go to New Jersey, to avail 4 themselves of the lower price of gas. 5 And a funny thing happens on the 6 way to New York when you come here to fill up 7 your car with gasoline. You might stay here a

8 little while. You might shop here. You might 9 decide to take a trip to one of the beautiful 10 places, one of the many beautiful places we 11 have, from Long Island to Niagara, Rochester, 12 the Finger Lakes, Lake George, Staten Island. 13 A beautiful place; Senator Savino will tell 14 you. 15 Many beautiful places. New York 16 City. I said Niagara Falls -- the list is 17 endless. It's endless. We happen to be 18 blessed to live in one of the most beautiful 19 states in the union. 20 So we know people may visit here, 21 there may be increased tourism, people will 22 shop here, people will dine here. 23 So I don't know what that number 24 is. That's the worst-case scenario, the 25 worst-case scenario. And no one in this room Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1927 1 can tell you what that number is. I believe 2 it will be far less. I believe that the 3 impact here will be far less, because it will 4 provide an economic stimulus. 5 But let's say there is a cost. 6 Let's say there is a cost. We spend too much. 7 That's what the Governor says. The Governor 8 says -- a Democrat -- says we spend too much 9 in this state. And we do. All the fiscal 10 watchdogs say we spend too much. And we do.

11 You know, families are suffering. 12 Families are suffering. They have to do more 13 with less today just to make ends meet. 14 Government could do more with less. 15 So if there is a cost, Senator, we 16 can work it out. All of us in this room, we 17 can work it out. We can make government 18 leaner and more efficient, because that's what 19 people deserve. People deserve relief, and 20 they deserve an efficient, leaner, more 21 responsive government. And this is the time 22 to do it. 23 The argument can also be made -24 does anyone here believe, does anyone here 25 believe -- because the question was, the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1928 1 question was if we have less money because of 2 this, we'll have less money to do one specific 3 thing, roads. 4 We also have another dedicated 5 revenue stream in this state, the Lottery. 6 It's for education. Does anyone believe that 7 if somehow we took in less revenue from the 8 Lottery this year that we're going to spend 9 less on education? 10 Of course that's not going to 11 happen. We'll find a way to meet the 12 priorities of this state. We can do that. 13 That's our job. That's our job. So if

14 revenues from the Lottery come down, we'll 15 find a way to meet our educational priorities. 16 And if revenue were to happen to 17 come down here, we'll find a way to meet our 18 priorities when it comes to our roads and 19 bridges in this state. 20 You know why? Because I have faith 21 in this body. I have faith in government. At 22 the end of the day, we'll do the right thing 23 and we'll find a way. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 25 Mr. Lanza. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1929 1 On the bill, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Senator Klein, on the bill. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: As I said 5 earlier, you know, I don't question Senator 6 Lanza's passion on this issue. 7 As elected officials, it's our duty 8 to be responsive to our constituents. And 9 certainly I don't think any of us can go to 10 any town meeting or shop in our local 11 supermarket or go to our local gas station 12 without our constituents talking about the 13 high price of gasoline. 14 It was said earlier this is one of 15 those issues where our role is really limited. 16 This is something that has to be dealt with on

17 a national policy. And I think it's worth 18 mentioning, without being overly partisan, 19 that during the Bush administration we have 20 seen gas prices skyrocket. 21 It is our job in the state to do 22 something to help alleviate some of that 23 burden. As Mr. Lanza did mention, and 24 according to a New York Times article that I 25 read the other day, the savings to the average Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1930 1 driver, if we did away with the tax under this 2 legislation, would be a savings of $55.45. 3 It's something. It's clearly not enough. 4 And if we want to really take this 5 issue seriously, we really have to contact our 6 Congress members and really have something 7 done concrete on a national level. 8 We also have to, I think, revamp 9 our environmental policy, make us more 10 efficient, really look for alternative sources 11 of fuel and energy. These are the things we 12 clearly have to do. 13 But at the same time, if we're 14 standing here today trying to save our 15 constituents some money by doing away with the 16 tax during the holiday season, I think it's 17 incumbent upon us to do the right thing. And 18 I think doing the right thing would be through 19 a targeted tax-rebate program. We want to

20 make sure our constituents get this money. 21 And if we adopted such a program today, we can 22 ensure that they would do just that, get the 23 savings. 24 We can also do it according to 25 income. And I have some figures here that we Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1931 1 looked at. If you actually institute a 2 gas-tax holiday -- and let's say, just for 3 argument's sake, we set the income level at 4 $150,000 a year for a family -- that would 5 cost the state $320 million, far below the 6 $600 million under Mr. Lanza's plan today. 7 So while at the same time -- I want 8 to listen to my constituents. I want to make 9 my constituents happy on this issue. But I 10 think the way we go about doing it is to make 11 sure they get the direct savings. And I think 12 the way we do that is through a targeted tax 13 rebate. 14 So at the same time, I'm going to 15 vote yes today. But I'm frustrated. This is 16 a one-house bill. And I'm glad it's a 17 one-house bill, because it's really not going 18 to do anything. 19 I'm hopeful that we're going to 20 come back, work with our colleagues in the 21 Assembly, hopefully allow us in the minority 22 to work with the majority to put forth a real

23 program, a targeted tax rebate, so we can go 24 home and we can talk to our constituents and 25 say: We did the right thing, we truly helped Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1932 1 you save money on the high price of gasoline. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 4 you, Senator Klein. 5 Senator Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 Mr. President, how did we get here? 9 Why are we here with these huge, huge gasoline 10 price increases? It was predictable, 11 Mr. President, when you have someone running 12 the United States of America with a secret 13 energy policy whose last job was an executive 14 for an oil company, and when you also -15 that's Mr. Cheney -- when you also have a 16 president whose last job was an oil company 17 executive. 18 And then when you look at the 19 record obscene excess profits that the oil 20 companies are making, it doesn't translate. 21 Yes, oil by the barrel has gone up. And you 22 would expect prices to rise. But the oil 23 companies are making excess profits. 24 You know, somebody said, well -- I 25 heard someone on TV the other day say we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1933 1 should have an excess profits tax. And 2 some -- oh, how could you do that? Well, 3 we're at war, aren't we? Isn't at least some 4 of the cost of the energy increase because of 5 war in Iraq? We also have a war in 6 Afghanistan. 7 In World War II there was an excess 8 profits tax that large corporations that made 9 extraordinary profits during that time period 10 had to pay. Why isn't our national government 11 doing that? What can we really do about it? 12 You know, I respect that Senator 13 Lanza said his bill is just eighth-grade math. 14 The problem, Mr. President, is it's 15 eighth-grade policy. And I'll tell you why. 16 Listen, when I was a kid we looked 17 forward to that week in July when the factory 18 closed for inventory. I didn't know what 19 inventory was; I just knew it was good my dad 20 didn't have to go to work. We piled in the 21 Chevy and we drove to the seashore. 22 Everybody has -- I will not yield 23 till I'm finished, Mr. President. I'm still 24 at the seashore. 25 (Laughter.) Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1934 1 SENATOR LANZA: Will Senator

2 Connor yield? 3 SENATOR CONNOR: No. No, 4 Mr. President. When I'm finished, I'll be 5 happy to yield. 6 So we're at the seashore, and it 7 was a great week. And so this bill harkens 8 people back to that, doesn't it? Oh, we're 9 going to give the families a break in the 10 summer. 11 Let me ask you a question, 12 Mr. President. Why isn't it just as important 13 that someone can afford in early May to take a 14 relative to daily doctor's visits when they 15 have some ongoing treatment as it is for 16 somebody to take their kid to the seashore in 17 July? 18 Or, Mr. President, I understand 19 giving relief to families. Why isn't a 20 shivering family in December, facing higher 21 home heating oil costs, why isn't it important 22 to give them a break, or more important or 23 just as important as, you know, the summer 24 traveler to someone who wants to get in their 25 car in August and go touring around New York Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1935 1 State? 2 That's why I say it's poor policy. 3 It's a gimmick, Mr. President. It's a 4 gimmick. It's a summer gift. Every kid likes

5 that, getting out of school for the summer. 6 That's why I say it's an eighth-grade policy. 7 And it has that appeal to, ah, gee, the 8 summer, you know, wonderful summer days, long 9 summer days. What about cold winter nights 10 and home heating fuel? Why are we giving no 11 breaks then? 12 It's poor policy, Mr. President. 13 It's poor policy because it's going in the 14 wrong step environmentally. There's no 15 guarantee that the consumer will benefit, 16 given the way gasoline is priced, zone pricing 17 and other pricing. 18 Mr. President, I know a bit about 19 New Jersey. Interesting thing about 20 New Jersey -- and I'm sure Senator Lanza knows 21 this -- is you don't pump your own gas there. 22 There's no -- it's against the law. Gas 23 stations have to hire people. Some of them 24 have two and three people pumping gas. They 25 get work out of it. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1936 1 And I think most stations I've been 2 in, because I had to go down to my mother's a 3 lot last year, they're immigrants. They get, 4 at one gas station, two or three shifts going 5 on. And their prices are cheaper than ours. 6 And I suggest it's not just taxes. 7 Yes, New Jersey has the third-lowest gasoline

8 taxes in the nation. It doesn't account for 9 the difference. One thing that may account, 10 they say, is, well, New Jersey has more 11 refineries. It has refineries in Linden, in 12 North Jersey, a string of refineries in 13 Paulsboro, down in -- I guess that's below 14 Camden. My uncle used to drive a gasoline 15 truck there, president of the union, out of 16 the Paulsboro refinery. 17 And in deep water, down by the 18 Memorial Bridge, there are more refineries. 19 It's also known as "Cancer Alley" in 20 New Jersey. That's another issue. Not 21 unrelated to the refineries, I'm sure. 22 The fact is, though, it's a shorter 23 distance from Linden, New Jersey to Brooklyn, 24 New York than it is from Linden, New Jersey or 25 Paulsboro, New Jersey to Trenton, New Jersey. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1937 1 So it's not just, oh, they have so many 2 refineries nearby, it's a transportation 3 issue. It's not that. 4 Why aren't we looking into price 5 structures for New York? Why is the basic 6 price, excepting the tax -- you take the 7 32 cents off, New Jersey's gasoline is still 8 probably, on average, a quarter a gallon 9 cheaper than ours if you took our tax off. 10 Why is that? And it's more expensive in

11 service stations, because they have to have 12 people there to pump gas. There's no 13 self-service. 14 So it's not just the taxes are 15 lower there. The gasoline is lower. The 16 pricing is lower, the pricing by the oil 17 companies and the fuel distributors. Somehow 18 or other we're getting gouged in New York. So 19 it's not just about this tax. 20 You know, I just don't see the 21 policy behind this. I understand the desire 22 to give people something or give people the 23 appearance of something. But from a policy 24 standpoint, I just don't see why we want to 25 encourage people to drive around all summer, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1938 1 and we think that's worthy of a $500 million 2 or $600 million subsidy, as opposed to helping 3 out people -- if I represented, 4 particularly -- you know, New York City is 5 very efficient when it comes to heating in 6 apartment buildings. I mean, any 7 environmentalist will tell you it's more 8 environmentally sound. 9 For people who live in the suburbs 10 or represent the suburbs or upstate, I would 11 be more concerned about the cost of home 12 heating fuel and what are we doing to help 13 people there. They don't need it in July and

14 August. 15 So the policy choice here is a 16 false one. It's illusory. It doesn't answer 17 the basic, fundamental problems, 18 Mr. President. It just doesn't do it. It is 19 eighth-grade policy, and it will have a lot of 20 appeal for eighth-graders. 21 But thinking New Yorkers are going 22 to look at this and say: What about April? 23 What about September 15th? And what about a 24 very cold December or January? What are you 25 doing for me there? You're trying to divert Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1939 1 my eyes in the summer when things are free and 2 easy, and you're not really doing anything to 3 relieve the problem of much too costly 4 gasoline, much too costly fuel products in 5 general in New York State. 6 Mr. President, I intend to vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 8 you, Senator Connor. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: I'll yield if 10 the Senator wants. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 12 Senator Lanza, why do you rise? 13 SENATOR LANZA: Would Senator 14 Connor yield to a question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator, will you yield?

17 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, you 22 talked about the oil companies gouging and 23 that's the real problem. 24 Senator, why do you believe that 25 oil companies making 10 cents a gallon is Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1940 1 gouging and that New York State charging 2 32 cents a gallon is okay? 3 SENATOR CONNOR: I don't know 4 that oil companies are making 10 cents a 5 gallon, Senator, to tell you the truth. 6 I know last year's reports showed 7 record profits for oil companies. All the 8 large oil companies made record profits. And, 9 you know, I read that in the Wall Street 10 Journal, the New York Times. That's an 11 acknowledged fact. 12 I have no sympathy for the oil 13 companies. They're not doing badly. In fact, 14 I have a lot of disdain for the fact that they 15 are making, on top of what is a world 16 oil-price increase, obviously, in the 17 per-barrel cost, the fact is the oil companies 18 are making, in my opinion, an excess on top of 19 that.

20 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 21 would Senator Connor continue to yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Connor, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly, 25 Mr. President. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1941 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 2 Senator continues to yield. 3 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, you 4 suggested that this bill misses the mark 5 because it only removes the tax during the 6 summer months. Would you support this 7 legislation if it were to eliminate the tax 8 throughout the entire year? 9 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I wouldn't. 10 Mr. President, I wouldn't. 11 What I would support is some sort 12 of rebate plan that offered a rebate to 13 consumers for their consumption, whether it be 14 home heating fuel or gasoline. 15 You know, the problem, 16 Mr. President, with Senator Lanza's bill is it 17 rewards people who drive automobiles, 18 potentially, if it gets passed along -- that's 19 a big if -- and it does nothing for people who 20 don't drive automobiles but have to buy home 21 heating fuel or other petroleum products whose 22 costs have risen astronomically. It does

23 nothing for them. 24 So I would support, Mr. President, 25 what I would support 12 months a year is a Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1942 1 rebate program that, based on income 2 structure, allows a rebate to people at the 3 end of the year for the cost, the taxes on 4 their consumption of not just gasoline but 5 other forms of petroleum products. 6 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 7 would Senator Connor yield for one more 8 question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Senator Connor, would you yield for one more 11 question? 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Absolutely, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, I 17 suggested in my discussion before that the 18 math involved in arriving at the fiscal impact 19 that's stated in the bill is easy enough for 20 an eighth-grader. You went further to say 21 this is eighth-grade policy. 22 Senator, I know eighth-graders, and 23 eighth-graders, unlike adults, often sit 24 around and blame each other for things that 25 they do, point the finger, talk about how to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1943 1 avoid responsibility. They want to blame 2 everyone else. 3 Isn't, Senator Connor, your 4 rationale here really an eighth-grade 5 rationale, to say that the reason why we 6 shouldn't do this is because it's someone's 7 fault in Washington, someone's fault in the 8 Middle East, someone else's fault? Shouldn't 9 we as adults, Senator, shouldn't we take the 10 action that we can take and deliver results? 11 We can talk about all those other 12 things, and I agree with many of the things 13 that were said today. We should talk about 14 those things. We should discuss them. We can 15 go further than this. But shouldn't we, as 16 adults, shouldn't we, as representatives of 17 the people of this state, shouldn't we do what 18 we can do that will deliver relief? As 19 opposed to sitting around like eighth-graders 20 and pointing to all the reasons why we can't 21 do something and blaming all the people we 22 believe got us to the point that we're in 23 today? 24 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, I 25 think what we should do as responsible Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1944 1 legislators is not drive a $500 million or

2 $600 million further hole in our budget in 3 order to give 12 weeks or 13 weeks of 4 gratification to those who drive automobiles, 5 rather than adopt a policy that applies to all 6 New Yorkers every month of the year that will 7 give them some relief from the extraordinary 8 increased expenses that they're undergoing. 9 So that's real policy. A policy 10 that says we're going to give you off July and 11 August has a lot of appeal to grade-school 12 kids. You know, I used to question children 13 and say "What if we passed a law and we had 14 school year-round?" And they'd all go: "No, 15 no, no, no." Certainly had appeal to me, 16 getting the summer off. 17 But that's not adult policy, 18 Mr. President. That's not grownup policy. 19 Grownup policy is figuring out what the State 20 of New York can do to help all New Yorkers who 21 are struggling with the increased cost of all 22 forms of fuel oil, not just gasoline. 23 Now, some of the things we've done, 24 Mr. President -- like Senator Marcellino's 25 bill, other bills, three bills that we passed Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1945 1 earlier today -- they are, in my opinion, what 2 responsible adult legislators ought to do, 3 come up with policies that take us in the 4 right direction environmentally, from an

5 energy-conservation standpoint. 6 And yes, they have a cost. But I'm 7 willing to forgo, for example, the sales tax 8 receipts on hybrid vehicles, because I think 9 sound public policy, grownup policy says 10 that -- encourages all New Yorkers to do 11 something that will help all of us. 12 Eighth-grade policy, Mr. President, 13 says let's give everybody the summer off and 14 hope they're all so silly happy with good 15 weather that they don't think about the bigger 16 problems. 17 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 19 Senator Lanza. 20 SENATOR LANZA: I do have one 21 last question, I promise. 22 SENATOR CONNOR: I'll be happy to 23 yield, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Senator will yield, Senator Lanza -Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1946 1 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 2 through you -3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: -- for 4 one more question. 5 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. Senator 6 Connor -- and through you, Mr. President -7 talked about home heating fuel. As you know,

8 we voted to eliminate and have eliminated the 9 state tax on home heating fuel. In fact, we 10 also eliminated tax on clothing, we gave folks 11 a tax holiday on clothing. 12 Senator Connor, did you support and 13 vote for those measures? And why is your 14 support of those two measures different from 15 the argument being put forth in support of 16 this tax holiday for the people of the State 17 of New York? 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, 19 that's the point: holiday. 20 Life's not a holiday, 21 Mr. President. It's not a holiday for 22 New Yorkers who are struggling to pay their 23 bills. It's not a holiday for people who must 24 drive their automobiles to work, not just to 25 the beach. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1947 1 I really fail to see why someone 2 who is forced by their geographic 3 circumstances to drive to work every day, to 4 drive to work in early May, to drive to work 5 in late September, shouldn't be getting -- in 6 my opinion, that person, tax-paying person 7 with a job, we ought to be worrying about 8 them, not where they're going to drive on 9 their vacation, if they get one. 10 And not every working New Yorker,

11 Mr. President, unfortunately, gets a vacation. 12 Lots of people work day in and day out and 13 they don't get a vacation. 14 Years ago, with Assemblyman 15 Barbaro, I sponsored a bill to mandate every 16 worker in New York State be given paid 17 vacation every year of at least a week. And 18 you should have heard the cries, 19 Mr. President, from businesses and others, how 20 could we do this. 21 So, you know, maybe in the 22 wealthier parts of the state, and some 23 middle-class parts, people do get that summer 24 vacation. But not everybody gets a vacation. 25 I'm concerned about the families Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1948 1 that have to use that automobile to get their 2 kids to school or their kids to camp so they 3 can go to work, or certainly during the year, 4 and they go to work every week of the year, 5 not just in July and August. So I think 6 that's why we have -- I don't like holidays. 7 Now, a sales-tax holiday is quite 8 different. And I think Senator Liz Krueger 9 absolutely demonstrated why a sales-tax break 10 is different than the fuel tax. And I won't 11 repeat it; she did it quite well. 12 But, you know, it's one thing to 13 say let's have a sales tax holiday just before

14 school goes back, so plain working folks 15 who -- they're not going out to buy a 16 wardrobe, they're not going out to get the 17 latest fashions, they're taking the kids to 18 get them sneakers and jeans or chinos or 19 whatever they wear, and a couple of shirts, to 20 go to school. 21 Why are they doing it? Well, your 22 kids have a way of going like this 23 (indicating) and getting bigger and bigger. 24 So it's not a frivolity, it's not a frill that 25 you have to take your kids shopping before Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1949 1 they go back to school. Usually in the summer 2 they grow a couple of inches, when they're 3 younger. 4 So that has real relief for working 5 families, for middle-class families in 6 New York State at that particular time. 7 That's when people shop for back to school. 8 But a holiday from gasoline tax to 9 me, Mr. President, doesn't make a lot of sense 10 if what it means is they're going to have a 11 holiday so they can go on holiday. 12 I don't begrudge anybody a good 13 summer vacation, but I'm concerned about the 14 men and women who have to work, the woman who 15 has to drive to get to that job as a waitress 16 in a diner, the man who has to drive to get to

17 that job in a factory -- where they're left -18 or in a retail store or whatever. And they 19 have to go to work. They don't have to go on 20 vacation, but they have to go to work. 21 That's why this is poor policy. 22 It's a lighthearted, oh, we're going to do 23 something for you, have a good vacation. If 24 you get one. 25 Thank you, Mr. President. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1950 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 2 you, Senator. 3 Just for people's interest, the 4 desk has received some requests on how many 5 speakers. There's 14 more Senators who wish 6 to speak on the bill or debate the bill. 7 Senator Larkin. 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 9 with unanimous consent of the Minority, we 10 would like to allow Senator Alesi the 11 opportunity to vote. 12 Senator Alesi has a complicated 13 medical appointment this afternoon, and we had 14 like to see him get there so he can start 15 running around instead of hobbling around. 16 At this time I'd like to ask that 17 we read the last section and allow Senator 18 Alesi to vote. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

20 you, Senator. 21 The Secretary will read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1951 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Alesi. 5 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, if 6 I may cast my vote in the affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 8 Senator Alesi's vote will be recorded in the 9 affirmative. 10 We will now withdraw the roll call. 11 Senator Larkin. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Could we now 13 return to the normal procedures. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 15 you, Senator. 16 Senator Winner. 17 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 Obviously, I rise in support of 20 this measure. And I'm a little astonished at 21 a lot of the urban patronization that I've 22 heard with respect to this measure.

23 Clearly in New York we have no 24 ability to control the commodity price of 25 gasoline. We have no ability to control most Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1952 1 aspects of the cost of gasoline. But we do 2 have the power to control the levy, the tax 3 levy that we impose from New York State on the 4 cost of a gallon of gasoline. 5 I don't know about you; apparently 6 those folks on the other side of the aisle 7 haven't heard from their constituents with 8 regard to their concern about gas prices. But 9 I certainly have heard from my constituents 10 with respect to the price of gas. And they're 11 extraordinarily troubled. They want to know 12 what we, as state legislators, are going to do 13 about it. And I try to tell them that we 14 don't have that much control over anything 15 other than taxes. 16 And a few years ago we acted with 17 regard to capping the amount of sales tax we 18 can levy on a gallon of gasoline, and many 19 people thought that that was a great idea. A 20 lot of people on that side of the aisle 21 thought it was a terrible idea and didn't 22 think we were going to achieve the savings. 23 However, I can tell you, as someone 24 who drives down the highway on the 25 Pennsylvania border on a regular basis, it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1953 1 ironic that the difference between a gallon of 2 gas in Pennsylvania versus the price of a 3 gallon of gas in New York is the difference in 4 taxes between Pennsylvania and New York. And 5 that's a fact. That's not speculation. That 6 happens to me every single day as I drive 7 through my district. 8 So those who say that somehow the 9 competitive aspects of this measure are not 10 going to work are clearly deluding themselves 11 and, further, only leading speculation that 12 the real motivation behind not being in favor 13 of this measure is because you want to spend 14 the money on something else. 15 Now, my constituents want to have 16 some relief at the gas pumps. And we can do 17 that through this particular tax holiday. And 18 while some of you have indicated -- or one 19 Senator in particular, Senator Connor, has 20 indicated that it's eighth-grade economics, I 21 can tell you, let me tell you a little bit 22 about eighth-grade New York civics. 23 In New York State, believe it or 24 not, there's a phenomenon in our economy that 25 is called the tourism economy, which is only Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1954 1 slightly ranking below that of the

2 agricultural economy as being the number-one 3 economic activity in New York State. 4 And you might not think that the 5 people that work in that tourism economy 6 matter, but they sure do in my district. And 7 they are hardworking men and women every day 8 who are struggling to make a living in the 9 tourism industry, and they are extraordinarily 10 concerned and afraid as to what the cost of 11 gasoline is going to do to their economy and 12 their livelihood this summer. 13 Now, we spend, believe it or not, 14 millions and millions of dollars a year 15 promoting the tourism economy. And we now 16 have a Governor who has indicated that the "I 17 Love New York" program needs to be spruced up, 18 making changes to emphasize the "I Love New 19 York" program in upstate New York. 20 And now we have a measure here to 21 provide for some incentives for people to 22 actually utilize some of the tourism 23 attractions, visit some of them, and all we're 24 hearing is: No, no, we can't do that, because 25 we need to spend the money on something else. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1955 1 Now, Senator Lanza pointed out very 2 effectively that this is not a lose-lose 3 revenue proposition. This has major 4 incentives brought into it, particularly as it

5 relates to the tourism economy. The amount of 6 money that we are going to incentivize people 7 to come into New York State and spend by 8 virtue of having lower taxes for once in our 9 life -- can you imagine New York State having 10 less taxes than any other state for a change? 11 I mean, what a remarkable prospect. But yet 12 we have resistance. We don't want to do that. 13 But we can get people to come to 14 New York State, save our tourism season this 15 year by having this particular measure pass so 16 that we can advertise on "I Love New York" 17 that New York really is more affordable to 18 come to. 19 Now, the environmentalists will 20 say, Well, that's a terrible idea, we want 21 everybody to walk. We don't anybody to drive. 22 And therefore, we don't want anybody to go to 23 any tourism attractions in the first place. 24 Now, that is pretty remarkable. 25 But that is one of the arguments we're hearing Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1956 1 also from your side of the aisle, and that is 2 let's use less gasoline. And while we all 3 want to conserve gasoline, I want to use more 4 gasoline if it's going to mean more tourism 5 and more economic growth in upstate New York. 6 So, ladies and gentlemen, this is 7 not perfect. Washington, you're right, has

8 not acted. But the Democrat-controlled 9 Congress hasn't acted either. They've done 10 absolutely nothing, and they've sat still. So 11 it's not just the Bush administration's fault 12 for the cost of gasoline, it's that Democrat 13 Congress. 14 And the other remarkable thing that 15 I don't hear is you have a candidate, I 16 thought, for President -- I think her name is 17 Hillary Clinton. She's also the United States 18 Senator from New York. She's calling for a 19 gas-tax holiday. Isn't that a remarkable 20 event? Having a gas tax holiday coming from 21 Senator Clinton that most of you or many of 22 you in this room support. 23 However, that's okay for her to do 24 it, but it's not okay for us to do it? I 25 mean, is there some disconnect here? I don't Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1957 1 quite understand. 2 So, ladies and gentlemen, for those 3 that have tried to advocate some help and 4 relief for upstate New York, some concern that 5 used to be a mantra of support for dealing 6 with the upstate economy, helping the upstate 7 economy -- it is astonishing to me that here 8 we have a measure that will directly help the 9 upstate economy, the upstate tourism industry, 10 the upstate tourism industry that is the

11 number-two economic engine in New York 12 State -13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 14 me, Senator Winner. 15 SENATOR WINNER: -- and all we're 16 doing is getting resistance. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator, excuse me. 19 Senator Adams, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR ADAMS: Would the Senator 21 yield for a question, please? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator, would you yield for a question 24 from -25 SENATOR WINNER: Certainly. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1958 1 Certainly. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Certainly he will. 4 SENATOR ADAMS: Through you, 5 Mr. President. There are two candidates in 6 the race. Could the Senator tell me what the 7 candidate leading in the race, what his 8 position is on the gas tax? 9 (Laughter.) 10 SENATOR WINNER: Senator, could 11 you repeat the question? I couldn't quite 12 hear you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

14 Senator, repeat your question. 15 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. The Senator 16 indicated that there's a presidential 17 candidate that supports this. My question to 18 the Senator is that there are two candidates 19 in the race. The candidate that is leading in 20 the race, what is his position on this? 21 SENATOR WINNER: Is he leading in 22 the popular vote or the delegate vote or the 23 superdelegate vote? I don't know which 24 vote -- I don't know which way you're leaning 25 these days. I get confused every time -Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1959 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Senator -- Senator, I believe he's leading in 3 both categories. 4 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you. 5 SENATOR WINNER: You're welcome, 6 Senator. 7 So in conclusion, Mr. President -8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 9 you, Senator. 10 SENATOR WINNER: -- this measure 11 is clearly something that is needed in upstate 12 New York, something that was heard as a 13 clarion call for action by many on your side 14 of the aisle as well as our former Governor 15 and certainly our current Governor, who 16 believes that the upstate economy matters.

17 Here is something that is a direct 18 measure that will help the tourism industry in 19 upstate New York, will provide for some 20 relief, gives us an opportunity to market our 21 advantage, for once in our life, as far as 22 being a destination, affordable destination to 23 take advantage of our tourism destinations and 24 spend money in our upstate communities and 25 mitigate against any potential costs of this Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1960 1 measure, and provides for some needed relief 2 to the hardworking men and women who have to 3 use their cars to get to work, go to the 4 doctor, and hopefully drive to upstate 5 New York and other tourist destinations in 6 New York to take advantage of our tremendous 7 opportunities. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. I 9 support this measure. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 11 you, Senator. 12 Senator Maziarz. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. On the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator Maziarz, on the bill. 17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 18 actually when I asked permission to rise 19 today, I was going to ask the sponsor to yield

20 for two questions. And those two questions 21 were answered by Senator Winner. 22 You know, I think we talked about 23 bipartisanship. I think Senator Klein and 24 Senator Connor both mentioned about the 25 administration in the White House. I think Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1961 1 Senator Winner did a very good job of pointing 2 out how it's not just the administration in 3 the White House; you know, that both houses of 4 Congress are controlled by one political 5 party, and there never has been a same-as bill 6 that went to the White House that the 7 President could have signed to immediately 8 give the impact, the price-reduction impact 9 that this bill would do. 10 My other question was going to 11 revolve around the junior U.S. Senator from 12 the State of New York. Senator Krueger talked 13 about bipartisan support for this legislation. 14 And I know that I asked Senator 15 Lanza privately if he had spoken recently or 16 even seen in New York recently the junior 17 United States Senator from the State of 18 New York. Of course we all know, particularly 19 Senator Perkins knows that she hasn't spent 20 much time here lately. She's had other 21 issues. But through press reports we know 22 that the junior Senator supports a bill

23 identical to this bill, almost, on the federal 24 level, to lower it there. 25 This is about lowering the cost to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1962 1 working people in Buffalo and Niagara Falls 2 and Rochester and Syracuse and Albany and 3 across the state, New York City and Long 4 Island, everywhere. This would give immediate 5 relief. 6 Senator Duane asked about hearings. 7 You know, I don't know what we need -- I held 8 three hearings on this particular issue, Tom. 9 They were all at Wilson Farms Convenience 10 Store on the corner of Walck Road and Nash 11 Road in the City of North Tonawanda. And I 12 can tell you, there were environmentalists 13 there, there were hunters there, there were 14 senior citizens, there were young people. 15 And across the board, Tom, at those 16 hearings, they want gas tax relief. They want 17 the price of their gasoline to come down. 18 I venture to say, as we go forward, 19 that the two candidates for president, John 20 McCain and one other one, will probably see 21 the light on this particular issue and they'll 22 all be talking about the high cost of 23 gasoline. And maybe then the federal 24 government will act on it. But until that 25 time comes, I think this is a good move, it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1963 1 an immediate move to provide tax relief. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. I'm glad 3 I didn't have to ask Senator Lanza those 4 questions. Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 6 you, Senator Maziarz. 7 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 8 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 9 you, Mr. President. On the bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator Hassell-Thompson, on the bill. 12 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: I had 13 some questions too, but I don't think that my 14 questions will be answered, so I'll just speak 15 on the bill. 16 Because I think that one of the 17 things that's clear is that it's right for us 18 to be responsive to our hard-pressed 19 New Yorkers, particularly our workers, our 20 farmers, small business owners, all of those 21 whose wages and profits are being eaten up by 22 high gas prices. 23 But one of the problems is -- and 24 this is where the sticky wicket is for me -25 as long as local governments have the option Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1964 1 of waiving local sales tax, and there's no

2 guarantee that this is going to go into the 3 pockets of these individuals, these 4 families -5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 6 me, Senator. 7 Senator Lanza, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR LANZA: Would my 9 colleague yield for a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator, would you yield for a question? 12 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: 13 Certainly, Senator Lanza. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LANZA: Through you, 17 Mr. President. 18 Senator, it seemed as though you 19 had an interest in asking questions but 20 believed that you would not receive answers. 21 I want to assure you, Senator, we 22 may have differences of opinion on this and 23 other issues, but I will always do my best to 24 work with my colleagues, whether Republican or 25 Democrat, to answer any concern that you might Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1965 1 have. 2 So my question to you is, do you 3 have questions for me? 4 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes, I

5 do. I have one question. 6 SENATOR LANZA: If so -- if so, 7 I'd love to answer them. 8 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Okay. 9 Do you -10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator, do you yield now for a question that 12 you asked for? 13 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 14 (Laughter.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator, he yields. 17 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 18 you, Mr. President. Through you. 19 Senator Lanza, the one question 20 that I really have is that if you want to work 21 with us, pull the bill. Are you willing to 22 pull the bill? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 24 Senator Lanza. 25 SENATOR LANZA: Through you, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1966 1 Mr. President, absolutely not. The people 2 cannot wait. 3 This is an answer to your question. 4 Will I pull -5 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: You 6 answered my question. 7 SENATOR LANZA: I will not,

8 because the people need results. They need 9 relief. And they need it now. They can't 10 wait for us to keep talking about it. 11 We can keep doing that. We will 12 keep talking about this and keep finding 13 better ways to go even further. But right 14 now, this is what we can do now that will 15 deliver real results and real relief to 16 people. 17 So, Mr. President, I will not pull 18 this bill because the people back home are 19 counting on us, I believe, to pass this 20 legislation and get it chaptered. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 22 you, Senator. 23 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 24 you, Mr. President. Let me continue. And now 25 you can understand why I didn't ask the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1967 1 question. 2 My concern is the same as yours, is 3 that the people in our communities need 4 relief. But there is nothing, Senator Lanza, 5 in this bill that guarantees that that money 6 savings is going to go into the pockets. 7 Because you have given local government the 8 opportunity and the authority to waive, you 9 cannot guarantee that any of the workers that 10 we're concerned about, any of the farmers that

11 we're concerned about, that there's a 12 guarantee that they're going to receive these 13 benefits. 14 When we did the last tax savings, 15 the county executive in my county refused to 16 pass that savings on to the consumer. He said 17 that it was in his purview to do with tax 18 savings what he chose, and it went into the 19 general fund. We never saw it. 20 In New York City, each of the 21 counties in New York City experienced the same 22 thing. Bloomberg did not pass that savings on 23 to the counties and to the communities. 24 There is nothing in this bill that 25 tells me that if I were to go back home and Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1968 1 say that I voted for this bill, that they 2 could guarantee that whatever the savings -3 whether it's $30, whether it's $50, whatever 4 that savings -- and $50 is significant -5 Senator Lanza? Fifty dollars is significant 6 in my community. 7 I represent a part of Westchester, 8 but I certainly don't represent the most 9 wealthy part of Westchester. I represent the 10 working class and poor people who are on 11 welfare. And those who do have cars and do 12 have to use their cars for work, $50 or $25 a 13 week makes the difference. It makes a

14 difference to me, so I know it makes a 15 difference to them. 16 So please do not believe that we 17 are ignoring that. What we're concerned about 18 is what is it that this bill will do that will 19 guarantee that what you say will happen, will 20 happen. Because I can't go home and lie to 21 the people in my district and say: You're 22 going to get this savings, I know you are. 23 This is not like the bogus check that's 24 supposed to come from Washington that they 25 never got. There are people who are still Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1969 1 waiting for STAR that they never got. 2 Every time we promise something and 3 we cannot deliver it, that makes my polls go 4 down. And it impugns my integrity. I cannot 5 vote for a bill that does not help me to 6 ensure that the people in my district are 7 going to benefit the way we say. 8 And it isn't about oil prices and 9 who's at fault and who's responsible. This 10 bill is supposed to be an action that we as 11 state legislators are taking in order to give 12 relief to the people in our communities. And 13 unless there is a demonstration to me that 14 that relief is coming, then I cannot vote for 15 this bill. 16 Thank you, Mr. President.

17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 18 you, Senator. 19 Senator Craig Johnson. 20 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 21 you, Mr. President. On the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator Johnson, on the bill. 24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 25 you, Senator Lanza, for introducing what I Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1970 1 believe is a very important piece of 2 legislation. I see this as reasonable people 3 with reasonable positions can differ. 4 The fact is is that our residents 5 all across the state, and in particular 6 Long Island, are hurting right now. You can 7 drive from the Queens-Nassau border all the 8 way out to the Hamptons, from my district out 9 to Senator LaValle's and Senator Trunzo's 10 district, and see the rising gas prices even 11 at the pump from going west to east. 12 And there's no doubt that 13 legislation that comes before us sometimes has 14 imperfections. And obviously, in hearing the 15 debate, my colleagues have some real concerns 16 about whether or not there's going to be a 17 real, tangible savings put into the wallets of 18 our consumers with respect to this 19 legislation.

20 Now, what's interesting is Senator 21 Clinton's, Hillary Clinton's plan was 22 referenced in this debate. And what's 23 important to recognize, and an important 24 component -- and even members of my own party 25 differ on whether or not it's a valuable Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1971 1 plan -- is that she wants the oil companies to 2 cover the freight when it comes to the tax. 3 Same oil companies making record profits, take 4 a little bit out of their pocket to help out 5 our residents across the nation. 6 There's nothing in this legislation 7 that would address that. And maybe when it 8 passes this house, and I'm hopeful it passes 9 this house, that we can go back and address 10 that issue. 11 Maybe we can go back and address 12 the issue of criminal price gouging. Because 13 watch the news today, go home when we go home 14 and watch the news tonight. No doubt on one 15 of the major news channels someone will talk 16 about gas hitting $5 a gallon this summer. No 17 doubt someone will talk about it maybe hitting 18 $6 a gallon. Somehow we have to address the 19 gouging issue. 20 Because my concern is that 21 notwithstanding the savings we put back to our 22 residents, what in this bill stops a

23 wholesaler or a gas company from simply 24 marking up the price? That's something we 25 should probably address going forward after Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1972 1 today. 2 But the fact is is that our 3 residents -- and you and I listen to them 4 every day, and we hear from them every day -5 need action now. They need some form of 6 relief now. They don't need to hear the 7 talking. 8 And quite frankly, what we also 9 need to see is some action from the Assembly 10 side on this legislation. And obviously I 11 will speak to my colleagues in the Assembly, 12 just like I hope my colleagues in the majority 13 do the same thing. Because it's not about 14 finger-pointing. 15 And I agree with you, Senator 16 Lanza, the finger-pointing has to stop, 17 because that doesn't help our constituents. 18 They do not want us up here to finger-point. 19 They want us to help them. 20 And so if it's a choice between a 21 bill that has some flaws or a choice between 22 doing something for our residents, I'll do 23 something that helps our residents. 24 I appreciate the efforts, and this 25 is a good bill. And I'll work with you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1973 1 Senator Lanza, to strengthen the bill. I 2 think we need to, in a bipartisan manner, 3 Democrats and Republicans working together to 4 help improve the lives of our residents. 5 So when it comes time to vote, 6 Mr. President, I will be voting in the 7 affirmative and supporting this piece of 8 legislation. Thank you very much. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 10 you, Senator. 11 Senator Diaz. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. On the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator Diaz, on the bill. 16 SENATOR DIAZ: I am very glad to 17 hear my Democratic colleague, the great 18 Senator from Long Island, Craig Johnson, 19 indicating his intention of supporting this 20 bill. 21 That proves something. That proves 22 that this is not Republican against Democrat. 23 I'm a Democrat. I'm just going to repeat 24 myself. You heard the democratic Senator from 25 Long Island, Craig Johnson, expressing his Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1974 1 support of the bill.

2 This is one of those pieces of 3 legislation that we should not be looking -4 that it should not be looked at as Democrat or 5 Republican, but looked at as an independent. 6 We should know that the people in 7 the 32nd District in the Bronx, which I 8 represent, every time that they go to buy 9 gasoline, they're paying taxes not one, not 10 two different taxes, not three -- four, four 11 different taxes. The people in the Bronx, 12 which I represent, they pay, for every gallon 13 of gas, for every gallon of gas that they 14 purchase, they pay 16 cents on something 15 called state petroleum business tax. State 16 petroleum business tax, 16 cents per gallon. 17 They pay 8 cents per gallon for something 18 called state sales tax. And they pay 8 cents 19 a gallon for another tax called state motor 20 fuel excise tax. And then they pay 14 cents 21 per gallon for the local tax. 22 So they pay 32 cents per gallon 23 throughout the state. And the people in my 24 district pay 14 cents extra per gallon, which 25 would be 56 cents per gallon for the people Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1975 1 that I represent. 2 You know, if we are going to blame 3 and play the blame game, we have plenty to go 4 around, plenty to blame. We could be here the

5 whole summer blaming Bush, Cheney and the 6 Republicans. And there is plenty there to 7 blame Bush, to blame Cheney, and to blame the 8 Republicans for the increase in the oil. 9 But, ladies and gentlemen, we could 10 also blame the democratic Congress of America, 11 the Senate, the U.S. Senate controlled by 12 Democrats, and the U.S. House of 13 Representatives controlled by Democrats. So 14 we want to blame? We could blame Cheney, Bush 15 and the Republicans, or we could blame the 16 Democrats, because they've got the power to do 17 something and they haven't done it either. 18 So if we're going to play the blame 19 game, Cheney, Bush? Nah. The Democrats, the 20 Senate and the Congress? They both are to 21 blame. 22 But also we could keep blaming. We 23 could keep playing the blame game and we could 24 blame the greediness of the oil companies. 25 They make billions of dollars in profit while Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1976 1 the people suffer. So, see, we could blame 2 Bush, Cheney, the Republicans? Nah. We could 3 blame the Democrats in the Congress, the 4 Senate and the House of Representatives, even 5 though we have, in New York, the people that 6 are the chairman of the Ways and Means 7 Committee and the one powerful committee

8 that's -- so we could have blame. We could 9 blame the oil companies, they're greedy. 10 They're greedy, greedy, greedy, greedy. 11 Billions of dollars in profit while the people 12 suffer. 13 Or, if we don't want to blame Bush 14 and Cheney and the Republicans, if we don't 15 want to blame the Democrats, the Democratic 16 Congress, we don't want to blame the oil 17 companies, we could blame the 18 environmentalists. We all know that there is 19 enough oil here in the nation, enough oil so 20 we could end the dependency on foreign oil. 21 So we got enough oil here, but the 22 environmentalists don't allow the federal 23 government to drill in the places where we got 24 oil. 25 So if you don't want to blame Bush, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1977 1 Cheney, you don't want to blame the Democratic 2 Congress, you don't want to blame the 3 greediness of the oil companies, and you don't 4 want to blame the environmentalists, then we 5 could blame the fiscal analysis. The money 6 doesn't go to the people that are supposed to 7 get the money. I'm going to tell you that the 8 people in the Bronx, they pay $4 to cross the 9 Washington Bridge, $4, to fill the tanks. 10 Because there, they save, because the taxes

11 there in gas are lower. People pay the toll, 12 $4, go there, fill up the tank and they're 13 still saving money. 14 So when we say in the fiscal 15 analysis people won't get the money, I don't 16 know what we're talking about. Because we pay 17 less taxes and people go and fill the tanks, 18 that's money that we pay. 19 But if we don't want to blame Bush, 20 Cheney, and the Republicans, and we don't want 21 to blame the Democratic Congress and the 22 New York State delegation in Congress, and we 23 don't want to blame the greediness of the oil 24 companies, and we don't want to blame the 25 environmentalists for not allowing us to drill Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1978 1 and get the oil that we need, and we don't 2 want to blame the fiscal analysis, then we 3 could blame you guys for not consulting us and 4 not allowing us to be part of this thing. 5 So a lot of things to blame. We 6 could blame -- we could be here blaming and 7 blaming and blaming and blaming and blaming. 8 And as I said before, this is not a piece of 9 legislation that we have to be looking at as a 10 Republican, as a Democrat, or as independent. 11 We have to be looking at this as what is best 12 for the worker of New York State, what is best 13 for the workers. We have to be looking at

14 this piece of legislation for what is best for 15 the families of the State of New York. 16 We have to be looking at this piece 17 of legislation of what is best for the 18 middle-class New Yorkers who are watching, 19 watching closely for government action. We 20 have to look at this piece of legislation of 21 what is best for the small business owner 22 whose wages and profits are being eaten up by 23 the high price of gas. 24 We have to be looking to this piece 25 of legislation of what is best for the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1979 1 lower-wage workers who are now paying up to a 2 quarter of their income for gas for get to 3 work. We have to be looking at this piece of 4 legislation for what is best for those 5 New Yorkers who are on the brink between work 6 and welfare due to the high price of gas. 7 So, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not 8 going to fall into a blame game. I'm not 9 going to blame Bush and Cheney, even though I 10 know there is a lot of things to blame. I'm 11 not even going to blame my party, my 12 Democratic Party. I'm a member of the 13 Democratic conference that controls the 14 Congress and the U.S. Senate, and they have 15 the power to do something, but they are not 16 doing it.

17 I'm not even going to blame the 18 greediness of the oil companies, because I'm a 19 State Senator. I'm a State Senator. I can do 20 nothing with the prices of oil. I cannot do 21 nothing for stopping Bush from doing whatever 22 he wants to do. And I cannot do nothing in 23 Congress. I'm not a Congressperson. 24 I'm not even going to blame the 25 environmentalists, because they want to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1980 1 protect animals and the environment. In order 2 to protect those animals and the environment, 3 they are not allowing people to drill. So by 4 not allowing us to drill, we are depending on 5 foreign oil. But we could drop that. We 6 could drop the dependency on foreign oil if we 7 drill here in America. 8 I'm not even going to blame the 9 fiscal analysis. I'm not even going to blame 10 anything. I'm just going to say, Senator 11 Lanza, I'm going to join my colleague from 12 Long Island, the great Senator from Long 13 Island, Craig Johnson, a Democrat like me, to 14 join you and to show and to send a message 15 that this is not a Republican or a Democrat, 16 this is something that is going to bring some 17 kind of relief to the people of New York. 18 I do like you, Senator Lanza, I go 19 to New Jersey. I do like you, I go to New

20 Jersey, fill up my tank, and I save -- I save, 21 coming up, about $6 coming up. Now when I 22 leave today, I'm going to go to New Jersey, 23 fill the tank again, and I save another $6. 24 So I'm with you. And I'm getting 25 the money. The money -- I am getting the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1981 1 money. I am -- that savings is coming to my 2 pocket. So when people say how we're going to 3 be sure that the money goes to the consumer, 4 I'm telling you, I'm proof of that every week 5 when I come here. 6 So, ladies and gentlemen, I am 7 voting, I am -- I intend -- no, no, can I vote 8 now? I'm voting yes. Proudly yes. Because 9 the people of the 32nd Senatorial District in 10 Bronx County deserve -- taxi drivers -- taxi 11 drivers, bodegueros, senior citizens, nurses 12 doctors, police officers, firemen, my wife, 13 us. We all want to be benefitting from this 14 piece of legislation that is bipartisan here, 15 okay, because Craig Johnson and me are with 16 you guys. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 19 you, Senator. 20 Senator LaValle. 21 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. I'm going to be very brief,

23 because a lot has been said on this bill. 24 But one of the things -- I've heard 25 a couple of things that have kind of inspired Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1982 1 me to get up and speak. Because when I sit 2 here and I listen to colleagues say this bill 3 is about making constituents happy, making 4 constituents happy, that comment is far from 5 what is happening in my Senate district. And 6 I can only speak about my Senate district. 7 People always have the image that 8 people live on Long Island, they're wealthy. 9 When you go back and you talk to people, all 10 different levels, and they start telling you 11 that putting food on the table is becoming a 12 problem, it's becoming a challenge. And you 13 listen to people and they tell you that they 14 bought Brand X -- they bought Cheerios for 15 $4.35; they can't afford that. They're buying 16 the Price Chopper brand or Waldbaum's or Stop 17 & Shop. Instead of having chopped meat once a 18 week, it's now three times a week. 19 I made a speech and I talked about 20 the gas tax and how this would at least allow 21 people during the summer months to take a 22 holiday. You know, you don't have to leave 23 Long Island in the summertime. You can -- if 24 you live in Port Jefferson, you can go out to 25 Montauk, you can go out to Greenport. You can

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1983 1 stay on the island if you wanted to. Great 2 beaches, et cetera. 3 I had people tell me: "Senator -4 vacation? There will be no vacation. I can't 5 put food on the table. I can't put food on 6 the table." 7 Senator Lanza was right. People 8 send us here and we deal and have, at critical 9 times, in a bipartisan way with issues. But 10 people need results. They don't need "we 11 could have," "we should have." We don't need 12 that. 13 It is true there should be 14 leadership from Congress. They didn't do 15 anything on the immigration issue. They are 16 not going to do anything on this issue. Thank 17 God we have a federalist system where we as 18 the states can take leadership on issues. 19 Senator Lanza has gone out and 20 taken leadership on this issue, and he's 21 right. It's the right time to do this. 22 People need help now. 23 And I know that I'm not saying 24 anything that you in your own districts don't 25 know. Whether it's in the North Country or Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1984 1 Western New York or Central New York or

2 New York City, people are feeling this economy 3 and gas and the way they heat their homes and 4 the cost of utilities and the cost of property 5 taxes. They are being crushed. And any 6 relief that we can give them on any one of 7 these areas, we need to do it now before this 8 session is over. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 11 you, Senator. 12 Senator Schneiderman. 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I must say I have very high regard 16 for my colleagues and the people who serve in 17 this house on both sides of the aisle. But I 18 have to say that today I view as a really poor 19 example of governing. 20 We are talking about serious 21 issues, the fact that people need help. We 22 are in the worst economic crisis in this state 23 since the 1970s. People need results. That's 24 not what this debate is about. That's not 25 what this bill is about. This bill is about Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1985 1 pandering and hypocrisy. 2 And as long as we're talking about 3 pollution, I tell you, Mr. President, I feel 4 like the rank stench of pandering is polluting

5 the air of the Senate today. 6 What's the question before us? Is 7 this bill good for the working people of this 8 state or bad for the working people of this 9 state? That's a legitimate question. 10 Now, what do we know about this 11 legislation? We know that, contrary to the 12 sponsor's statement, there is no price-gouging 13 provision. We know that there is no mechanism 14 to see that any of the $629 million this bill 15 will take away from the General Fund of the 16 State of New York will go to consumers, much 17 less to the poor and working people who need 18 the relief. 19 We know, in spite of the sponsor's 20 extraordinary statement that he doesn't 21 believe that oil companies ever engage in 22 price gouging -- which, you know, having a 23 passing knowledge of the history of that 24 industry, is demonstrably false -- in spite of 25 his statement, we know that some of the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1986 1 $629 million that we are taking from the 2 General Fund will stick to the fingers of the 3 oil companies, some of it will stick to the 4 fingers of the wholesalers, some of it will go 5 to people who are very well-to-do, who are 6 driving anyway. 7 So how much of this $629 million

8 that we need badly for programs for poor and 9 working people will go to those poor and 10 working people? Not much. And there is no 11 way to predict that any amount will actually 12 go to the people most in need. 13 So let's look at the hypocrisy. 14 Let's look at the hypocrisy here. My 15 colleagues on the other side of the aisle -16 during the Pataki-Bruno era, the New York 17 State leadership on the other side of the 18 aisle presided over the largest redistribution 19 of wealth from poor and working people to the 20 wealthy we've ever seen in the State of 21 New York. 22 You like to pretend that you are 23 tax-cutters, but the size of our state and 24 local governments virtually doubled during the 25 Pataki-Bruno era, and the tax burden increased Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1987 1 to pay for it. 2 The poor and working people of this 3 state need the public services that we provide 4 for, but they are paying a greater and greater 5 cost, they're paying a greater and greater 6 share. 7 You know where that $629 million is 8 coming from that you're ripping out of the 9 state General Fund today? It's coming from 10 the poor and working people of this state.

11 How is it, after the Pataki-Bruno 12 era, that today in the Empire State the 13 poorest 50 percent of New Yorkers, the people 14 most in need, pay almost 12 percent of their 15 income in state and local taxes while the 16 richest 1 percent pay 6.5 percent of their 17 income in state and local taxes? 18 You know who's being hurt here 19 during the Pataki-Bruno era? It is the poor 20 and working people of the state. We're 21 putting the burden on them. And yet we pose 22 as tax-cutters with these gimmicks, these 23 rebates, these schemes, similar to the scheme 24 today. But the amount of money you cut in 25 income taxes for the wealthy far outweighs Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1988 1 anything you do for the poor and working 2 people of this state. 3 So now you're showing up here 4 saying, Well, we are all about putting money 5 in the pockets of working people. History 6 tells us otherwise. The bottom line does not 7 lie. 8 What does this mean to rip 9 $629 million out of the General Fund? Who's 10 going to pay for it? Poor and working people. 11 What programs will be cut? Programs for poor 12 and working people. 13 This is a one-house bill, not just

14 opposed by the leadership in the Assembly, who 15 have the integrity to step up to this, not 16 just opposed by the Governor, who has the 17 integrity to step up to this; it is opposed by 18 every economist in the country. 19 When they asked Senator Clinton -20 to our great shame, she has been on the wrong 21 side of this issue at the federal level. 22 Everyone's entitled to make mistakes. When 23 they asked her to name one economist who 24 supports this notion, she could only cite her 25 husband. Who as far as I know, he's many Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1989 1 things, but he's not an economist. 2 But this is not what's happening 3 here today. We're not passing money along to 4 people. We're not doing anything. This is a 5 one-house bill that is opposed by everyone on 6 every side of the aisle who is honest. 7 Let me cite to you a statement from 8 a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, 9 right-wing think tank. Max Schulz said: "It 10 is bad policy and political gimmickry. If you 11 want to deliver relief to folks, you have to 12 do more than just a little holiday for the gas 13 tax, you have to address what is driving the 14 price of crude oil." 15 From the left, a former 16 undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton

17 administration, Robert Shapiro, said: "It is 18 utterly misguided, both environmentally and 19 economically. Environmentally it does actual 20 harm, since it reduces the price of producing 21 greenhouse gases, and economically it's 22 trivial or worse. By reducing the price of 23 driving, it encourages more of it, thereby 24 increasing demand for gasoline, which 25 inevitably pushes the price back up." Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1990 1 Well, what we're doing today is 2 worse than what they were trying to do at the 3 federal level. Because unlike the feds, we 4 have to balance our budget. So what you are 5 voting for if you vote for this bill today and 6 this pretense and this sham that all of a 7 sudden the Republican Party is all about 8 putting money back in the pockets of working 9 people, what you're doing is ripping 10 $629 million we don't have out of the General 11 Fund. 12 And we know, from your record and 13 from history, the people who will pay, both in 14 taxes and in program cuts, are the poor and 15 working people of this state. 16 Look at the history, step up to it 17 honestly. I'm going to vote against this 18 bill. But I really think that the biggest 19 disgrace here today is that we're not having

20 an honest debate about targeting money to the 21 people who need it most. 22 Senator Klein's proposal for a 23 targeted rebate actually does get the money to 24 the people who need it. But has that been 25 under consideration? No. Maybe because we Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1991 1 don't have hearings, you don't invite us into 2 the discussion. And with the same way that 3 the majority here exercises this absolute 4 power, this dictatorial control over what 5 comes to the floor, you are serving your 6 agenda, which is not the agenda of the working 7 people. 8 I object to anyone on the other 9 side of the aisle, after the record of the 10 Pataki-Bruno era, pretending that you are 11 about putting money in the pockets of working 12 people. That is a value of our conference. 13 That is a value embodied by Malcolm Smith. 14 That is our value. We are going to step to 15 that value. We will have our own proposals. 16 I doubt they will see the light of day in this 17 house. 18 In the meantime, until we are able 19 to bring our proposals to the floor and 20 actually deliver for poor and working people, 21 I'm voting no, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

23 you, Senator Schneiderman. 24 Senator Nozzolio. 25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1992 1 on the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President 5 and my colleagues, as many of us do, I often 6 speak to high school and junior high school 7 classes like the one visiting me today from 8 Marion Central School in Wayne County. 9 And they ask me: What should I 10 study to be involved in the political issues 11 of the day? Should I study history? Should I 12 study political science? How do I get 13 involved in government? What should I do to 14 focus my attention on participating in my 15 government? 16 My suggestion to them is there are 17 two subjects you should focus on. The first 18 is English; the second is economics. And, 19 frankly, the rhetoric that I heard discussed 20 today by the members of this house shows why 21 my advice to those students is absolutely on 22 the mark. 23 I heard from Senator Krueger, 24 Senator Connor, and my friend Senator 25 Schneiderman discuss how they believe, in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1993 1 their world, the economists would oppose us in 2 Senator Lanza's tremendous attempt to 3 eliminate the gas tax in New York State for a 4 short period of time. We heard those 5 economists quoted about their concerns for 6 global warming, the lack of a national energy 7 policy, the need for a reduced consumption of 8 petroleum products worldwide. 9 I say to those Nobel laureates, you 10 can give us all the advice you want. But the 11 working people in Wayne County, the farmers 12 who drive the tractors, the people who have to 13 travel 12 miles, 14 miles round trip to get a 14 loaf of bread or a quart of milk, the people 15 who need to commute to their jobs in Rochester 16 or Syracuse, entailing a 60-mile per day, at 17 least, commute to work -- those are the people 18 who are going to be helped by this bill. 19 And I do not care about the 20 New York Times and their focus on how the 21 economy of New York City is not going to be 22 helped by this bill. Frankly, this bill helps 23 the working people of upstate New York. 24 And I thought earlier this year the 25 issue of the day was how everyone was going to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1994 1 unite to help the upstate economy. Well,

2 Senator Lanza certainly has helped the entire 3 state's economy by this measure. This measure 4 that will enhance many economic enterprises 5 during the course of the suspension of the 6 gasoline tax. 7 It was mentioned that the 8 number-one industry in New York State is 9 agriculture. Agriculture has been devastated 10 by the rising cost of petroleum products. The 11 number-two industry in New York State is 12 tourism. And all of our regions that depend 13 on tourism -- and I represent most of the 14 beautiful Finger Lakes region -- that region 15 is going to be significantly hurt if motorists 16 are impeded to travel to the Finger Lakes, 17 enjoying the great sights and venues of the 18 Finger Lakes if the gas tax is so -- if the 19 gasoline costs are so oppressive. 20 I congratulate Senator Lanza for 21 his courage, for his bringing this measure to 22 the floor. I believe strongly that all the 23 transactions that will not occur because of 24 the oppressive cost of gasoline are going to 25 be the real fiscal impact of us not doing this Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1995 1 bill. In other words, the fiscal impact that 2 Senator Lanza quoted is far, far smaller than 3 the total fiscal impact of the rising costs of 4 gasoline on our economy.

5 We need to do all we possibly can. 6 And, Mr. President, that's why I strongly 7 support this measure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 9 you, Senator. 10 Senator Marcellino. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 12 President, I'll explain my vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 14 Senator Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 Reducing the cost of gas is a very 18 appealing idea. People need some relief from 19 the high cost of living. Suddenly we're 20 hearing people talk about not being able to 21 afford putting food on their table. We hear 22 that food pantries are running out of food. 23 So reducing the gas tax to help our 24 constituents is extremely important. People 25 need help. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1996 1 We have heard today about the gas 2 tax and the sales tax, particularly because 3 the gas tax and the sales tax are not based 4 upon ability to pay. They are regressive 5 taxes affecting the middle class and the lower 6 middle class disproportionately to people for 7 whom another 10- or 20-cent or 50-cent per

8 gallon gas fee would be less significant. 9 But there's a difference here. 10 We've been hearing about eighth-grade 11 economics, and we've been hearing about the 12 fact that economists are opposing this type of 13 bill. The tax on clothing is quite different 14 than the tax on gasoline. We can always 15 produce more clothing, but we can't produce 16 more gasoline. 17 And as the cost of gas is going to 18 obviously go up in the summer because the 19 demand will rise, we can't increase 20 production, because the refineries are 21 producing about as much as they can produce. 22 And reducing the state gasoline tax will 23 presumably increase the demand. And the 24 supply just can't keep up with the demand and 25 the price, I'm afraid, is going to go up even Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1997 1 higher. 2 So that's the first point in terms 3 of the economy. We want to be able to do 4 something to help the consumer, there's no 5 question about that. 6 There are three answers that we 7 really haven't been able to address. For the 8 first one, the 600-plus-million-dollar eficit 9 that's going to be created by the passage of 10 this legislation. There's going to be a hole

11 in the budget. 12 Secondly, the question of price 13 gouging. There is the danger -- and this bill 14 does nothing to protect the consumer from 15 price gouging. 16 And lastly, if I thought that the 17 savings would be passed on to the consumer, I 18 would vote for this bill. I would vote for 19 this bill if the consumer were going to 20 benefit. But I haven't seen anything that 21 tells me that the savings are not going to be 22 consumed by the oil companies, the refineries, 23 the middleman -- or middlewoman -- the 24 wholesaler or the local owner of the service 25 station. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1998 1 The New York Times had a very 2 interesting article, I think it was yesterday, 3 and it says: "Since 2000, four states have 4 enacted gas tax holidays: Florida, Georgia, 5 Illinois and Indiana. In general, retailers 6 did not pass on all of the intended savings." 7 And that's what bothers me, 8 Mr. President, because I don't think we need 9 to enrich the oil companies any further. And 10 for that reason, I think this bill should not 11 be passed. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

14 you, Senator. 15 Senator Parker. 16 SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President, 17 on the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the 19 bill. 20 SENATOR PARKER: First, let me 21 commend Senator Lanza for his hard work on 22 this issue. This is an important issue. I 23 know that he cares about the people in this 24 state and the people in his district. You 25 know, we're all, in our districts, under Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 1999 1 pressure to respond to this issue. 2 And, you know, the problem is -3 this is the right issue. The problem is this 4 does not take us nearly as far as we need to 5 go, unfortunately. I too would like to 6 relieve my constituents, the hardworking 7 families in my district who, you know, 8 oftentimes, like Senator Lanza's families, 9 oftentimes have to use their vehicles to get 10 back and forth to work or to use their 11 vehicles in the commission of their work. But 12 this bill does not take us where we need to 13 go. 14 There's been a lot said about 15 making our constituencies happy. And we as 16 legislators essentially have, you know, two

17 roles. And the question is, what are you 18 going to be today? Are you going to simply be 19 a representative that listens to what the 20 populace and what the polls are saying, or are 21 you going to be a leader? 22 Are you going to be a 23 representative, or are you going to simply, 24 you know, just do what you're told to do and 25 let people pull -- and not even people, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2000 1 polls -- pull your strings and tell you how to 2 move your mouth and how to move your feet? Or 3 are we really going to be leaders? 4 And what leaders do different than 5 simply being a representative is that leaders 6 lead. Managers do things right; leaders do 7 the right things. 8 And this is not the right thing. 9 The right thing to do is at a time when we 10 know that fossil fuels are destroying our 11 economy and the fact that we are going into an 12 economic spiral because of energy costs, the 13 thing that leaders do is chart a new 14 direction. 15 So as the ranking member on the 16 Energy and Telecommunications Committee, and 17 as the chair of the Democratic Task Force on 18 Alternative Energy Futures, what I would 19 suggest as a leader would be now is the exact

20 time -- instead of putting, you know, a hole 21 in our General Fund of over $600 million, now 22 is the time to be investing in NYSERDA and 23 investing in alternative energy products. 24 Now is the time to pass, you know, 25 one of my bills that would in fact provide Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2001 1 alternative energy along the Thruway, so that 2 we can encourage people to buy alternative 3 energy vehicles. 4 I would suggest that as leaders we, 5 you know, bring forward and pass and encourage 6 Dean Skelos's bill that in fact continues to 7 provide a tax incentive for people to buy 8 hybrid vehicles. Right? Those are the kind 9 of things that we ought to be doing now at 10 this critical thing. 11 But pandering to polls and 12 pandering, you know, to the editorial boards 13 is not exactly what leaders ought to be doing 14 now. 15 This is the right issue. This is 16 the right time. But this bill here is the 17 wrong solution. And so I'll be voting no. 18 I encourage my colleagues on both 19 sides of the aisle to think about this, think 20 about the legacy that you're going to be 21 leaving your children and your grandchildren. 22 Do you want to in fact leave them a legacy to

23 say that at the critical time in history that 24 you pandered to the polls instead of making 25 sure that they had a viable future and made Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2002 1 sure that alternative energy was in fact part 2 of that new future that they have? 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 Senator Aubertine. 7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 I certainly intend to support this 10 particular piece of legislation. However, I 11 do have a couple of concerns. And if the 12 sponsor would yield just to address those 13 concerns, if he might. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator Lanza, will you yield? 16 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 17 Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 21 Senator. Thank you, Mr. President. 22 A couple of the questions that I 23 have on this bill. As you're no doubt aware, 24 farm use of diesel fuel is not taxed. In 25 fact, it's dyed, the fuel is, when it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2003 1 delivered, so that it's not used commercially. 2 Are you aware of that? 3 SENATOR LANZA: I'm sorry. Mr. 4 President, through you, what is not used 5 commercially? 6 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Diesel fuel 7 on farms. For tractors. On-farm use. 8 SENATOR LANZA: They don't use 9 diesel fuel? I'll take your word for it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator, would you restate your question to 12 the sponsor? 13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: My question 14 is this. In light of the fact that diesel 15 fuel that's used for agricultural purposes is 16 untaxed -- now, the last diesel fuel that I 17 bought on my farm recently was $3.86. It's 18 untaxed. Now, the tax is 32 cents; correct? 19 Well, if we add that, it's $4.18. Okay? 20 The average price for fuel, 21 according to all the numbers that I have, is 22 $4.58. Now, if you take the average price for 23 fuel, subtract the fuel, the pure cost of fuel 24 plus the tax, the $4.18, you've got 40 cents. 25 My question to you is this. That Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2004 1 40 cents, nobody seems to know where it is.

2 Would the gouging language in this legislation 3 address that 40 cents? 4 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, 5 you know, I'm no expert when it comes to the 6 differences between diesel and gasoline. But 7 I do know they're two different products. 8 They're refined differently, they have 9 different distribution networks, different 10 delivery systems. They're two different 11 products. The cost of manufacturing diesel is 12 different from the cost of refining gasoline. 13 So I'm not sure what the question is implying. 14 But I will say this. I know when 15 it comes to comparing gasoline to gasoline, if 16 you increase the price of the tax, the price 17 of the gas goes up. If you reduce the price 18 of the tax, the price of gas goes down. 19 And we know, if we're talking about 20 agriculture and farming, we know the cost of 21 getting those goods to market increases when 22 the price of gasoline and fuel goes up, 23 because trucks deliver those goods to market. 24 Which is why when we talk about and 25 I hear concerns for the working families and Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2005 1 the poor, increased gas prices has a 2 regressive effect. That's exactly who it 3 hurts the most. It hurts the poor, first, 4 most.

5 Folks who are wealthy, they don't 6 even notice the fact that the price of bread 7 has gone up. They don't notice the fact that 8 the price of agricultural goods have gone up. 9 They don't even notice it. It's the working 10 families of this state, the poor of this 11 state. 12 So if we're going to talk about 13 farming and agriculture, if we can reduce the 14 price of gasoline in this state, we can have 15 an effect on the price of agricultural goods 16 and farm goods and food that people depend on 17 in this state. 18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you. 19 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 20 to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Senator yields. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2006 1 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 2 Senator. 3 Again, it's not the cost of the 4 fuel necessarily that we're talking about, as 5 far as the cost of producing it. In this 6 particular dialogue, that's really irrelevant. 7 What is relevant, though, is the

8 32 cents in tax is -- it doesn't matter 9 whether it's gasoline or diesel fuel. It's 10 still 32 cents. 11 But my question to you, sir, was 12 this. The pure cost of diesel fuel without 13 the tax is $3.86. That's the cost of fuel 14 delivered to my farm, no tax. The tax, if it 15 were taxed, if you were to buy it at the pump, 16 would be 32 cents. If you add those together, 17 it's $4.18. 18 But the average cost at the pump 19 isn't $4.18. It's not the pure cost of diesel 20 and the tax. The cost at the pump is $4.58. 21 There's 40 cents overcharged there. 22 My question to you, sir, is this. 23 Does your legislation -- will it address that 24 40-cent differential? 25 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2007 1 through you, it's sort of a convoluted 2 question. You have to compare apples to 3 apples, not apples to oranges. 4 The fact that there's a different 5 system in place for farmers in this state is 6 probably something my colleague would support. 7 These are measures to decrease the cost of 8 fuel for farmers because it's important to do 9 so to our economy and to the people of this 10 state that depend on the goods that farmers

11 bring to market. 12 We're trying to do the same thing 13 here. There is an anti-gouging measure in 14 this bill, a similar provision to what we have 15 in place for the gas-tax cap that we presently 16 have as law in this state. 17 Now, people are talking about not 18 knowing how much of an effect this will have, 19 not being sure. I think it will be, cent for 20 cent, penny for penny, 32 cents. 21 But I know one thing. I know if we 22 go home and we don't pass this, I know that 23 the price of gasoline on Staten Island and 24 across this state will not come down a single 25 penny. That I know. That we can all rely on Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2008 1 and depend upon. 2 I know that if we do this, this is 3 the quickest measure -- you know, I've heard 4 the word "pandering." Since when is it 5 pandering to do the right thing by the people 6 that send us here? Since when is it pandering 7 to deliver relief that people need? Just 8 because something is popular, just because 9 people support something doesn't make it 10 wrong. Doesn't make it pandering. 11 In fact, usually I trust the people 12 of this state and the people who send me here. 13 I trust their wisdom. I feel their pain.

14 When they tell me they need this, I don't 15 think it's pandering to give it to them, to 16 deliver that relief. I think it's doing the 17 right thing. 18 And that's what this measure -- we 19 could talk about all the things this doesn't 20 do. I want to talk about what it does do. 21 And it delivers much-needed relief to the 22 people of Staten Island and this state, 23 especially to the people who need it the most. 24 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 25 Senator. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2009 1 If the Senator would continue to 2 yield for one more question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield for 5 one more question? 6 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 8 Senator yields for one more question. 9 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 10 Senator. 11 As I'm sure you're aware, not every 12 engine that runs on a farm is diesel. There's 13 a lot of gas engines on a lot of farms. Now, 14 when gasoline is delivered to a farm, it is 15 taxed. Okay? But there is a mechanism in 16 place that allows a farmer to recoup that tax.

17 And there's a tax form, it's Form 4136, I 18 believe it is, when you do your taxes. 19 Would it be something that you 20 might consider, either in this bill or in 21 another bill, the idea of opening that 22 mechanism up to everyone so if you were to 23 keep track of your sales tax on the fuel that 24 you use, you can recoup it that way? And that 25 way, if you were to do it in this bill in Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2010 1 particular, you would have a mechanism in 2 place that we could all access that would go 3 directly to the consumer of fuel. 4 SENATOR LANZA: Through you, 5 Mr. President. You know, I'm open to doing 6 all we can to help the people of this state. 7 What farmers have to do with respect to what 8 you're talking about, some might consider 9 cumbersome and burdensome and difficult. And 10 some have made the decision that farmers can 11 handle that as businesses. 12 You know, when it comes to the 13 people of this state, they have enough going 14 on in their lives. I want to deliver the 15 relief in the most direct and simple way we 16 can do it without adding additional burdens 17 upon them. 18 I'm not saying it's a bad idea. 19 It's something we can talk about. But I think

20 this is the right relief at the right time. 21 Someone said it's a gimmick because it's only 22 during the summer. You know, just like I 23 think someone said summer vacation for kids is 24 a gimmick. Talk to my kids. It's not a 25 gimmick. They can't wait. And the people of Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2011 1 this state can't wait either. 2 So I'm all for discussion and 3 talking. People can't wait. We can't find 4 ways to make this more difficult, to 5 complicate this even more. We've got to 6 deliver results, relief now in a way that 7 people will feel it and benefit from it. 8 But we can continue the dialogue. 9 There are many good ideas I've heard and have 10 been talked about. Senator Krueger mentioned 11 other things that we could do. I never said 12 this is the only thing we can do. I said that 13 this is the most direct thing we can do. And 14 there is lots we cannot do. 15 Of course we should continue the 16 discussion about other measures to go even 17 further. But this I know will deliver relief 18 now at the right time, and it's the right 19 relief. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 22 you.

23 Senator Libous, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would Senator 25 Aubertine yield to a question? Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2012 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Senator Aubertine, will you yield? 3 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Sure. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 7 Mr. President, through you. 8 Senator Aubertine, do you believe 9 that Senator Lanza's bill will help farmers 10 and their families? 11 SENATOR AUBERTINE: I do. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 SENATOR AUBERTINE: On the bill, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 17 Senator Aubertine, on the bill. 18 Senator Adams, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR ADAMS: Would Senator 20 Aubertine yield for a question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Senator, will you yield for a question? 23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Senator yields.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2013 1 SENATOR ADAMS: Because I think 2 this is an important point that many of us 3 have that's in support of Senator Lanza's 4 bill. 5 And I need to understand that -- if 6 I understand you correctly, then the price 7 that farmers receive, is it with a tax or 8 without a tax? 9 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Without. 10 SENATOR ADAMS: Without a tax. 11 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Correct. 12 SENATOR ADAMS: Would he yield 13 for another question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator, will you yield for another question? 16 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR ADAMS: Is that price 20 that you receive without a tax, is it the same 21 price that consumers are paying at the pump 22 for diesel fuel? 23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 24 SENATOR ADAMS: Is it -25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2014 1 Senator, will you continue to yield?

2 The Senator yields. 3 SENATOR ADAMS: Is it less or 4 more? I just need to understand that. 5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: The delivered 6 price for diesel fuel on the farm, as I 7 indicated to Senator Lanza, is -- the latest 8 price that I paid was $3.86. 9 That's for diesel fuel that's dyed. 10 It's dyed red. And the reason it's dyed is 11 because you don't want to be caught driving 12 down the Thruway or any other road in this 13 state with undyed fuel. It's dyed because 14 it's untaxed. 15 And my question was this. If the 16 tax is 32 cents, if you add the 0.32 in that 17 3.86 -- which I would consider the pure cost 18 because it doesn't have tax on it -- you've 19 got $4.18. My question to Senator Lanza was, 20 why is it $4.18 with the tax yet, if I were to 21 go to a filling station and buy diesel fuel, 22 on average in New York State I'm going to pay 23 $4.58? 24 The 40-cent difference is not tax. 25 It's not the cost of production. It's pure Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2015 1 profit for somebody. 2 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you very 3 much. Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

5 you, Senators. 6 SENATOR AUBERTINE: On the bill, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the 9 bill, Senator Aubertine. 10 SENATOR AUBERTINE: I agree that 11 this is certainly a bill that is worthy of 12 moving forward. I think that there's 13 certainly a lot of room for improvement, but I 14 do applaud my colleagues, or my colleague 15 Senator Lanza, for bringing this forward and 16 opening this dialogue. It's certainly 17 healthy. 18 And I do agree with him that all we 19 can to for our families here in New York State 20 and our businesses here in New York State to 21 alleviate the high cost of fuel is something 22 that we should be doing. 23 So with that, thank you, 24 Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2016 1 you, Senator. 2 Senator Savino. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 This has actually been a pretty 6 fascinating debate today. You know, as 7 state-elected representatives, we are all

8 uniquely aware of our limitations. 9 Unfortunately, our constituents are not aware 10 of those limitations. We can all share 11 stories where people expect to us take care of 12 potholes and street lights and graffiti and 13 crime, the war in Iraq, and the price of gas. 14 It's been said that we cannot 15 control the failures of the Bush 16 administration, which we can't. We cannot 17 answer for the Bush administration's failure 18 to do something about greater fuel efficiency. 19 We can't do anything about the Bush 20 administration's failure to deal with windfall 21 profits of the oil companies or their failure 22 to control the cost of oil. 23 We cannot do anything about the 24 failure of the Democratically controlled House 25 and the Senate to address this issue. We Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2017 1 can't do anything about any of those things. 2 But this we can do something about. 3 We can control the cost of gasoline tax. 4 It has been suggested that this is 5 eighth-grade math or eighth-grade policy. 6 It's been suggested that this will only result 7 in a $50 savings. 8 Well, I do math a little bit 9 differently, perhaps because I went to 10 Catholic schools. So I did a little

11 back-of-the-envelope calculation, and I came 12 up with some different numbers. 13 I drive a Saturn Vue. I have a 14 16-gallon tank. Sixteen gallons times 15 32 cents for one fill-up would save me $5.12 a 16 fill-up. I fill up my gas tank twice a week. 17 That would save me $10.24 per week, with two 18 fill-ups. Or 15 weeks of that during our 19 holiday would be $153.60. 20 Now, what would I do with that 21 $153.60? Well, perhaps I would take that 22 money and I would pay two months of my KeySpan 23 bill, which would help me deal with my home 24 energy heating costs. Or maybe I'd buy a pair 25 of shoes. Maybe I'd get my hair done, or I'd Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2018 1 get my nails done a few times. Or whatever I 2 would do. 3 But it would be my money, and I 4 would be able to redistribute it wherever I 5 wanted to. So it would be a real savings for 6 me. 7 I'm a single person; $153 I can 8 spend on a pair of shoes. But if I had a 9 couple of kids, maybe that $153 would be the 10 difference between paying for medication at 11 this pharmacy. Or maybe that $153 would be 12 the difference between the vacation that we 13 think is trivial, some of us think is trivial.

14 But $153 is real money to real people. I 15 represent real people, as most of us do too. 16 It's been suggested that this won't 17 work because it hasn't worked in the past. We 18 haven't been able to accomplish it. Well, I 19 reject that argument. Just because it hasn't 20 worked in the past or we haven't found a way 21 to see to it that the money will go directly 22 into the pockets of consumers doesn't mean we 23 cannot find a way to do that. We can find a 24 way. We have an obligation to do that. 25 And as we've had a great debate Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2019 1 here, we've come up with many ideas. The idea 2 of perhaps a tax rebate. The idea of having 3 stronger anti-gouging language in the 4 legislation. We can do that. 5 It's been suggested that we cannot 6 afford it, we cannot afford the hit to our 7 state budget. Well, I will continue to 8 maintain that we spend too much money as it 9 is. We just spent a month passing a state 10 budget that everybody believes -- all the 11 economists who are critical of this plan are 12 critical of our state budget. They've said 13 we've spent too much money and we're going to 14 have to come back and make some cuts. And 15 maybe we will. 16 And when we do that, we should find

17 a way to provide $500 million in tax relief to 18 people. Whether it's 32 cents a shot or it's 19 $153 over the summer, it's real money. We can 20 do it. 21 And I'm going to support this bill, 22 and I want to commend my colleague from Staten 23 Island, Senator Lanza. He and I know just 24 what this will do to our community. Every day 25 we watch the constituents that we represent Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2020 1 sit in their homes and calculate how much 2 money they will save by going to New Jersey to 3 fill up their gas tanks. I fill up there. We 4 see what happens when they get there. They 5 calculate the cost of the tolls on the Hudson 6 River crossings. They know that when they get 7 to New Jersey they will pay less for gas, for 8 cigarettes, for liquor, for clothing, for 9 beverages. They pay less over there. We are 10 losing millions of dollars from New York City 11 residents going to New Jersey because they 12 have lower gas taxes, they have lower taxes on 13 everything. 14 We can stop our constituents from 15 stimulating the economy of New Jersey and put 16 them back in New York. I'm voting for this 17 bill, and I urge everybody to do that. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 19 you, Senator.

20 Any other Senator wish to be heard? 21 Senator Onorato. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 23 will the sponsor yield to a question. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Senator Lanza, will you yield to a question? Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2021 1 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator, you 6 mentioned in your bill that you have a 7 provision in there for anti-gouging. Could 8 you explain to me what brings about gouging? 9 At what price? What constitutes gouging? 10 SENATOR LANZA: Well, for 11 instance, if anyone did anything which would 12 be contrary to the very specific provision in 13 here which requires that the price at the pump 14 be reduced commensurate with the reduction in 15 the tax. The same provision we have in place 16 with respect to the gas-tax cap, which seems 17 to have worked well. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Will he 19 continue to yield, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LANZA: Yes,

23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 25 Senator continues to yield. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2022 1 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator, would 2 you explain it to me in eighth-grade math? 3 What would I save in dollars and cents on the 4 anti-gouging? At what price would it be -5 how much would constitute gouging? Ten cents 6 a gallon, 5 cents a gallon, 20 cents a gallon? 7 Or perhaps the 40 cents a gallon that Senator 8 Aubertine has related that nobody can explain 9 where it's going. 10 SENATOR LANZA: Well, let me 11 explain it. You will save 32 cents a gallon. 12 So will the people you represent, including 13 the people I represent. You can go to the 14 bank on it. 15 All the evidence that you need is 16 out there in surrounding states. If you 17 reduce the price -- if you lower the tax, you 18 lower the price of gas. If you raise the 19 price of the tax, you raise the price of gas. 20 But if you have a concern or if any 21 of us do, and if we see any evidence of 22 gouging, then according to the anti-gouging 23 statute, we'd refer it to the Attorney 24 General. And the Attorney General would 25 launch an investigation to determine whether

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2023 1 or not there's gouging. That's how it works. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: I understand 3 that, sir. But again -4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Are 5 you asking -6 SENATOR ONORATO: -- could you be 7 more specific? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Senator, are you asking Senator Lanza to 10 continue to yield? 11 SENATOR ONORATO: Would he 12 continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 14 Senator, will you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator, I'm 19 not trying to be a wise guy. I really want to 20 know, what would the actual cost of gouging be 21 considered? How much? Ten cents a gallon, a 22 nickel a gallon over and above the 32 cents 23 that we're saving? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yeah, 25 it's not a price. It would be the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2024 1 Commissioner of Tax and Finance that I believe

2 would have jurisdiction over such an 3 investigation. The Attorney General could be 4 brought in if we believe that there's gouging. 5 You know, if we don't eliminate the 6 tax on gasoline, some unscrupulous retailer or 7 company can decide to gouge right now. They 8 can decide to gouge today. And so if you're 9 suggesting that we don't have adequate 10 provisions currently in the law to deal with 11 that, then we ought to talk about that. 12 We do, though, have an anti-gouging 13 statute. And whether or not we reduce the 14 gasoline tax, there's always the threat, 15 there's always the concern that we all share 16 that someone may decide to break the law and 17 gouge. 18 Reducing the price of gasoline by 19 32 cents will not create any incentive for 20 anyone to gouge that does not exist today. 21 SENATOR ONORATO: Okay. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 23 you. 24 Senator Sampson. 25 SENATOR SAMPSON: Mr. President, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2025 1 would the sponsor yield for just a few 2 questions? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Lanza, will you yield?

5 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR SAMPSON: Thank you very 10 much. Through you, Mr. President. 11 Senator Lanza, I want to -12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 13 me. Can we have some quiet in the chamber, 14 please. It's getting difficult for Senators 15 who are engaged in the debate to hear each 16 other. 17 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 18 Mr. President. Senator Lanza, I want to -19 first of all, I want to thank you very much 20 for really bringing this issue to the floor. 21 And, you know, reasonable minds can disagree 22 with respect to this issue. 23 And one of the questions, you know, 24 something I've always heard you say during 25 this debate is we've got to do it now, we've Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2026 1 got to do it now, we've got to do it now, 2 we've got to do it now. 3 My question to you -- through you, 4 Mr. President -- is have you had any 5 discussions with the Assembly with respect to 6 this legislation? 7 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,

8 through you, I've talked to individual members 9 of the Assembly. Some support it strongly; 10 others have questions. 11 So the answer is yes, I have 12 discussed this with some members of the 13 Assembly. 14 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 16 to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 24 Mr. President, have you had any discussions 25 with any of the Governor's staff with respect Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2027 1 to this legislation? 2 SENATOR LANZA: You know, 3 Mr. President, I heard and read in the paper 4 that Governor Paterson refused to not support 5 this out of hand. He had questions, and I 6 think he said that he would look at it. He 7 talked about other things that could be done. 8 But he did not reject this measure, according 9 to what I read in the paper, out of hand. 10 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you,

11 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 12 yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 14 Senator Lanza, will you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR LANZA: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 17 Senator yields, Senator. 18 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 19 Mr. President. Senator Lanza, so would this 20 legislation happen, or it's not going to 21 happen, in your opinion? 22 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I 23 am so hopeful, I am so hopeful. And I am 24 confident that the members of the Assembly and 25 the Governor know what we know, that people Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2028 1 are hurting, that the price of gasoline is too 2 high in this state, that the price at the pump 3 goes beyond, that it's affecting the price of 4 milk and bread and eggs. So I'm hopeful. 5 I know that I have a 6 responsibility, as the Senator representing 7 the 24th District of Staten Island, to do what 8 I think is necessary and responsible and is 9 consistent with the best interests of the 10 people I represent, both back home and across 11 this state. And that is my job and my 12 responsibility. 13 And so I believe in this

14 legislation, because I believe it will deliver 15 relief, much-needed relief. And I'm hopeful 16 that the Assembly gets that and that the 17 Governor gets that. 18 But I'll tell you, I won't let 19 someone's disagreement with that proposal stop 20 me from doing what I think is right. I 21 believe this is right, and it's my 22 responsibility to do what I think is right and 23 then take the next step, to convince, if 24 there's agreement across the hall, to do all I 25 can to convince the members of the Assembly Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2029 1 that they need to act as well. And then I'll 2 speak to the Governor or anyone else that I 3 can to make sure that this becomes a reality. 4 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 5 Mr. President. On the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 7 Senator Sampson, on the bill. 8 SENATOR SAMPSON: Senator Lanza, 9 I hear your passion, I understand your 10 passion, and I'm with you. 11 When I go home to my district, you 12 know what my constituents are going to tell 13 me? They're going to say "Show me the money. 14 Show me the savings." 15 You know, I'm going to say: "Well, 16 you know, I'm hopeful it's going to happen."

17 You know what they're going to tell me? 18 They're going to say, "Senator, I agree with 19 you a hundred percent. But you know, a 20 promise is a comfort to a fool, and we as 21 constituents, we are no fools." 22 The bottom line here is this. And 23 I can understand where you're coming from. I 24 want to give savings to my constituency. But 25 if we're talking about being responsible, you Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2030 1 know, we have no fiscal impact study as to -2 you talk about $600 million coming from the 3 General Fund. Where is that money coming 4 from? You know what? We don't know where 5 it's coming from. 6 And at the end of the day, we give 7 them this little holiday, what is going to 8 prevent these retailers the day after this 9 holiday of hiking up the gas price again? 10 And as Senator Connor was saying, 11 this is more of a comprehensive issue. You 12 know, as Senator Winner talked about Senator 13 Hillary Clinton -- I don't support Hillary 14 Clinton. I support Barack Obama. And he says 15 this is a gimmick. And we're not about 16 gimmicks, we're about substance. And I know 17 you are a person who is about substance. 18 And that's why when Senator 19 Hassell-Thompson said, you know, pull this

20 bill so we can have this discussion -- because 21 the reason I asked you those questions is my 22 constituents are going to say: "I want to see 23 immediate relief. I don't want to have to go 24 through an entire process." This process 25 should have been dealt with before we got to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2031 1 this point. 2 You know, this is not about photo 3 ops, this is not about, you know, literature 4 going to our communities saying we support the 5 gas tax. Because at the end of the day, when 6 we can't deliver for our constituents, they're 7 going to look at me again and say, "Sampson, 8 as I told you before, a promise is a comfort 9 to a fool, and we are no fools." 10 So I want to commend you on this 11 legislation, but I can't support it, not being 12 responsible. Because it's all about being 13 fiscally responsible. Because you can save a 14 couple of dollars -- now, you talk about 15 New Jersey all the time. New Jersey with the 16 taxes and the gasoline tax. But you know 17 something also about New Jersey? The 18 residents of New Jersey pay the highest -- one 19 of the highest property taxes in this country. 20 And I ask myself why is that. 21 But I want to commend you, and 22 you're right. Hopefully this is open for

23 discussions, we can deal with this issue. 24 Because you know what? This is an excellent 25 idea. And my people do need, do need some Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2032 1 relief. But they're going to say "Show me the 2 money." 3 Thank you. And I vote no. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 Any other Senator wish to be heard? 7 Please ring the bells. The debate 8 is closed. 9 Let me tactfully remind the 10 Senators that there's a two-minute limit on 11 explaining your vote. And the presiding 12 officer will do his best to keep that in mind 13 and to enforce that rule today. 14 The Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Senator Little, to explain her vote. 23 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. 25 One of the comments that I have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2033 1 heard from people who are speaking in 2 opposition to the bill is that this is a 3 one-house bill. Well, I would daresay that 4 this is not the first time that a one-house 5 Senate bill has become law and has helped the 6 people in our state. 7 The people in my district are 8 hurting in every phase of their life, and they 9 want to know what I can do about the price of 10 gas. Well, there's a number of things that I 11 can't do. I can't change the change the value 12 of the dollar, the price of oil per barrel, 13 the oil futures. I can't do anything of any 14 of that. I can encourage Congress to take 15 some action. 16 But what can I do? I can reduce 17 this state tax on gasoline. It will not only 18 help the people in my district, it will 19 attract tourists to New York State who will 20 spend more money so that we have more jobs, 21 more income, more sales tax, more of 22 everything. It will help us get through the 23 summer. 24 I applaud Senator Lanza for this 25 bill. I vote aye. Thank you. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2034 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

2 you, Senator. Senator Little, you will be 3 recorded in the affirmative. 4 Senator Griffo. 5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. To explain my vote. 7 I also live in a district where the 8 use of a vehicle is essential for one's 9 livelihood and to conduct all aspects of one's 10 life. 11 And we hear a lot of people talk 12 about "One New York." And I would hope that 13 if that's more than rhetoric and that's 14 genuine, that we would really hear what people 15 are saying and that we would listen to that 16 and respond. 17 And this bill that Senator Lanza is 18 proposing gives us that opportunity to provide 19 that immediate relief. 20 And yes, this is a federal problem. 21 And we should be holding all the presidential 22 candidates accountable to ensure that this is 23 a major issue, to discuss the long-term 24 answers to these problems that we're having 25 with energy. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2035 1 We have a Senate proclamation to 2 the Congress telling them to follow suit and 3 encouraging them to act, as we are right now, 4 to deal with this problem immediately but also

5 long-term. 6 The Governor has empaneled an 7 energy panel here. We need to work with him 8 to ensure we have a comprehensive energy 9 policy in this state. 10 But this bill today allows us to 11 provide immediate relief to the people that we 12 represent, to show them that we hear them, 13 that we care, and that we can and will do 14 something. 15 I vote aye. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 17 you, Senator Griffo. You will be recorded in 18 the affirmative. 19 Senator Volker, to explain his 20 vote. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Very quickly, to 22 explain my vote. 23 I just want to say it was 24 interesting -- and look, this is no knock. 25 This is the world we live in. I was looking Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2036 1 over to see how many of the no votes were from 2 New York City. And I realized the first three 3 speakers against the gas tax were from 4 Manhattan and were lecturing us on fuel use. 5 Well, we all know that New York 6 City is a whole different situation than 7 upstate New York, where this is not a matter

8 of putting money in people's pockets, this is 9 a matter in some cases of survival. 10 I think we should realize two 11 things. Marty, you said that George Bush was 12 at fault. Well, I think Ralph Nader is at 13 fault, and I can give a good explanation of 14 exactly why. 15 But so what are we going to do? 16 Are we going to sit here and do nothing 17 because somebody else is at fault? We don't 18 have enough refineries, we don't have enough 19 of that stuff? 20 The only chance we in this state 21 truly have to deal with this issue -- you can 22 talk about gouging, all that stuff. Which is 23 nonsense, because we can't do anything about 24 it. The only chance is to get rid of our tax. 25 And I will tell you something that Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2037 1 some friends of mine have said, and I think 2 they're right. If this state gets rid of our 3 taxes, New Jersey will, Pennsylvania will, all 4 of them will, because they'll be forced to do 5 it. And you know what then will happen? The 6 McCain-Clinton bill will probably pass in 7 Washington, and we could have as much as 8 64 cents off a gallon of gas. And no oil 9 companies, nobody, can fill that in. 10 The New York Times story was

11 clearly the usual New York Times story; they 12 don't know anything about what they're talking 13 about. 14 I vote aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 16 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 17 affirmative. 18 Senator Marcellino, to explain his 19 vote. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 I'd like to thank my colleague 23 Senator Lanza for bringing this bill forward. 24 It's an important issue. It's designed to 25 give a break to our constituents who require Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2038 1 the use of their cars because they have no 2 other choice. 3 I live on an island which happens 4 to be very long. The price of gas at one end 5 of that island, the western end, is about 6 $3.80. If you go out to the eastern end, you 7 go to Montauk Point, it's a dollar more, 8 $4.80. That's what you're dealing with. The 9 price is different out there. 10 The merchants out there, the 11 trucking businesses out there, they live for 12 the tourists. They live for people to take 13 those day trips out to the east end of the

14 island. If gas is up over $4.00 and over 15 $4.50, those people will not go that far. 16 They will not travel the hundred miles one way 17 to get to Montauk and go those to businesses 18 and participate in the economy of the eastern 19 end of this island. 20 Those people will suffer -- the 21 farmstands, the farmers, the wineries. You 22 name it, they will suffer. The economy of 23 Long Island will suffer, and the economy of 24 this state will suffer. 25 We must do something now. I agree Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2039 1 with my colleagues who said we should be doing 2 something with home heating fuel. I am. We 3 have in the works right now what I call the 4 Home Heating Relief Act, which would give a 5 tax deduction of up to a thousand dollars off 6 your fuel, based on your fuel costs for the 7 two highest home heating months of the year. 8 That's in bill drafting now and 9 will be out shortly. And we'll introduce that 10 bill, and hopefully all my colleagues who 11 expressed concern about what are we going to 12 do for home heating will be on that bill and 13 be in support of that bill, because I believe 14 it will do an awful lot to relieve the burden 15 for our consumers. 16 Summer is followed by winter, we

17 all know that. So we've got to take 18 consideration of what's coming up immediately, 19 the summer months, which we need to take care 20 of. And we need to give our people a break. 21 And we need to go into the home heating 22 season, which also will be addressed. 23 This bill is not a panacea, but 24 it's a great first step. And I vote aye, 25 Mr. President, and I ask everyone in this Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2040 1 chamber to vote aye as well. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 3 you, Senator. You just about nosed out the 4 two-minute limit. You will be recorded in the 5 affirmative. 6 Senator Fuschillo. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 8 President, thank you very much. 9 And just briefly, yesterday the 10 Governor appropriated $17 million to the "I 11 Love New York" campaign. And he did that to 12 promote tourism within New York State and 13 throughout this country to come here to 14 New York State. And today we've got a 15 Republican Senator from Staten Island who 16 wants to reduce taxes. It's a no-brainer. 17 You can make every excuse you want 18 in the world. You can blame Bush -- I agree 19 with you. You can blame Cheney. Senator

20 Connor, I agree with you. Senator Savino 21 appropriately said the Democratic-controlled 22 Senate and Congress in the United States 23 government has done nothing. Washington, we 24 know, doesn't have the courage to adopt a 25 comprehensive energy policy. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2041 1 In the absence of that, if we can 2 do anything here in New York State to ease the 3 pain at the pump, we should do it. Senator 4 Lanza's bill does that. 5 Senator Savino said she's going to 6 save about 150 bucks this summer. What about 7 the trucker that goes to the pump and fills up 8 that truck, that 18-wheeler, that has a 200-, 9 300-, 400-gallon tank? What about the couple 10 of hundred bucks they're going to save? And 11 where does the savings go? It comes down to 12 the consumer. 13 You know, I get Poland Spring 14 delivered to my house. All of a sudden I have 15 a two-dollar surcharge on there. I called up 16 the company: "Why a two-dollar surcharge?" 17 "I'm paying more at the pump," so it costs the 18 consumers more. 19 Well, if that trucker is going to 20 save a couple of hundred bucks every time he 21 or she fills up -- and maybe it's $3,000 or 22 $4,000 during this period of time of

23 suspension -- then that money gets passed down 24 to the consumer. Maybe bread will be cheaper. 25 Maybe milk will be cheaper. Maybe the goods Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2042 1 and services that we buy every single day as 2 consumers will be cheaper. It's a no-brainer. 3 Senator Lanza, the people from 4 Staten Island I know are calling you every 5 single day, the same as my district in Nassau 6 and Suffolk County. They want relief at the 7 pump. This is something they do every three, 8 four days. They go there, they take the 50, 9 60 bucks of cash out of their pocket, or 10 charge. They need relief now. If we can do 11 something, let's do it. 12 I vote aye. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 14 you, Senator Fuschillo. You will be recorded 15 in the affirmative. 16 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his 17 vote. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'm 19 going to vote aye on this legislation. And 20 there's been a long, long debate on issues 21 that may have some interest to the 22 intellectual who wants to debate theory. 23 And some of those issues concern 24 the environment, concerning whether this is 25 going to have any long-term effect. It's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2043 1 probably not going to solve the energy crisis. 2 I can guarantee it won't solve it; we need a 3 national policy to do that. 4 But does that mean we sit here and 5 let our constituents suffer day after day when 6 they go to the pump? I don't think that 7 follows at all. We have the authority to do a 8 change. And this is actually deja vu all over 9 again. We had the same debate when there was 10 a concern over whether we should put a cap on 11 the cost of taxes of gasoline over $2. Well, 12 we did it. 13 Oil kept going up. We can't 14 resolve that. We're not the national 15 government. We can't resolve that. But we 16 did save a substantial amount of money already 17 to the consumer. We're just completing the 18 loop and trying to save them more. 19 The part that really amuses me is 20 the alternatives we could do with this 21 $600 million that we're going to be deprived 22 from the treasury. We can have a -- send back 23 a rebate check, we can do this, we can do 24 that. To me those are more excuses why not to 25 do this relief for the taxpayer, and they Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2044 1 really don't ring true.

2 Secondly, that doesn't account for 3 the truckers and the businesses. Whether we 4 stimulate the economy or not, we're going to 5 lose some of this business if we keep not 6 doing whatever we can do from the state level. 7 Lastly, there was a question raised 8 about where are we going to cut to make the 9 difference of the $600 million or whatever the 10 number may be. Well, somehow we survived the 11 cap on gasoline, the loss of revenues there. 12 We survived there. We still increased our 13 spending this year. 14 And quite frankly, in my mind, 15 $600 million that is in the taxpayers' pockets 16 is much safer than $600 million left with the 17 government to find a way to spend. 18 So I vote aye for this. It may not 19 be a long-term solution, but it's certainly 20 relief for businesses and for our taxpayers in 21 our communities. 22 Thank you. I vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 24 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 25 affirmative. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2045 1 Senator Sta -- Stav -- Sta -2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Stachowski. 3 Stavisky's over there; I'm Stachowski. 4 That's all right, Tom, it's been a

5 long afternoon. 6 Mr. President, I too rise to 7 support this measure. The people in my 8 district will appreciate any kind of help they 9 can get with their payments at the pump. 10 And the only problems I have, and I 11 do have to mention them, is I'm concerned 12 about making sure that they do get the money, 13 because somehow it has a way of drifting into 14 other people's pockets. I worry about that. 15 But hopefully I'm counting on Senator Lanza to 16 make sure that my constituents get this entire 17 amount of money off every gallon. 18 And secondly, I think you ought to 19 take a look at the gouging provision that you 20 keep referring to. I don't think it's quite 21 as strong as you refer to it in the 22 information I received getting ready for this 23 bill. 24 It seems to be a flawed gouging 25 provision, and you might want to look into Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2046 1 strengthening that, because that could prove 2 to be a problem if we do in fact find people 3 gouging. And it is right now only civil, and 4 you might want to extend it beyond that also, 5 being that the cost of gas is having such an 6 impact on everybody's life. 7 So with that, I rise to support

8 this issue. I'm voting yes. And hopefully 9 the people in my district will see the amount 10 of money that they're supposed to see in 11 savings. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 14 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 Senator Adams, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR ADAMS: First, thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 I want to commend my colleagues for 20 spending two and a half hours debating this 21 issue, because it needs to be debated. And 22 this is an important issue. You know, people 23 are hurting. People are hurting. And if we 24 just walked in here and voted without having a 25 discussion, I think we would be insulting the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2047 1 people who sent us here. 2 So we should debate. And I don't 3 think that any side of the aisle, no matter 4 what the position one may take, is stating 5 that we don't want to deal with the issue 6 that's impacting our constituents. 7 I'm going to vote for this bill, 8 because, you know, folks need some type of 9 relief. I'm concerned, as my colleagues 10 stated, that making sure the money goes to the

11 actual consumer. 12 And I'm going to ask the sponsor of 13 the bill to join me this weekend as we go 14 through the community and test some of these 15 gas stations to make sure our consumers are 16 getting what they paid for and to identify 17 some location where gouging is taking place. 18 I think there's no greater 19 statement we can make on both sides of the 20 aisle. There's some issues that are not 21 Republican-driven or Democrat-driven, they're 22 the-residents-of-this-state-driven. And by 23 you and I joining together doing that, we will 24 send a strong message as state legislators, 25 enough is enough. We've got to alleviate the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2048 1 price that individuals are paying. 2 I'm going to vote aye. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 4 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 5 affirmative. 6 Senator Connor, to explain his 7 vote. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 First, I want to say I agree with 11 Senator Volker when he said I blamed Bush and 12 Cheney but he thinks it's really Ralph Nader's 13 fault. I agree. If Nader hadn't run in 2000,

14 we wouldn't have had Bush and Cheney. I agree 15 with Senator Volker. 16 (Laughter.) 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Two points. If 18 we really want to help all the constituents, 19 all the people in New York, then instead of 20 lowering this tax 32 cents for one quarter of 21 the year, why don't we lower the tax 8 cents 22 for the whole year? 23 So that people who vacation by 24 taking a fall foliage tour in the Adirondacks, 25 or go on a winter vacation by going to one of Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2049 1 our wonderful ski resorts, get the same 2 benefit as people who vacation in the summer. 3 And everybody gets an equal benefit when they 4 go to work, whether they work in the summer, 5 fall, whatever. 6 If you want to blow $500 or 7 $600 million out of the budget to do this -8 and I think it's a good idea to give relief -9 lower the tax 8 cents 12 months of the year. 10 Same dollars, people benefit. Because 11 politically, my colleagues, people think "what 12 have you done for me later." 13 Do you really want to be there the 14 day after Labor Day when your campaigns are 15 heating up and your constituents say, "Oh, my 16 God, it went up 32 cents. Why's that?" And

17 the guy at the gas station says: "Oh, the 18 Legislature." 19 Your price of gas went up 32 cents 20 two months before your election. Brilliant 21 politics, Mr. President. 22 I vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 24 you, Senator Connor. You will be recorded in 25 the negative. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2050 1 Senator Larkin, to explain his 2 vote. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 You know, I've sat here today and 6 I've listened to everything from conception to 7 delivery, for the most part. But my 8 bitterness and gripe here is rather than think 9 about what we should be doing -- I hear people 10 say, What are we going to do about corruption? 11 What are we going to do about this? What are 12 we going to do about it? 13 Well, I'll tell you what we're 14 going to do. Maybe get off your phones 15 sometime and go visit somebody. 16 Our former attorney general, our 17 former governor, I gave him 14 cases of what 18 was happening a couple of years ago when he 19 was in the AG's office and it took him nine

20 months to get back to me to say: "Oh, we're 21 settling with them." "What about it?" "Oh, 22 but I can't tell you." 23 Oh, you can't? So I can't tell 24 my -- so when you started to say how are we 25 going to see that they're not gouging or doing Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2051 1 this here, what about the Consumer Affairs 2 Department? What about the Attorney General? 3 We have Consumer Affairs in every one of our 4 counties. Why don't we start a little 5 campaign of working together? 6 You know, it's easy to stand here 7 and listen to all this nuts. I heard the 8 Senator from Manhattan -- no, not you. 9 (Laughter.) 10 SENATOR LARKIN: I heard you too. 11 Schneiderman. Senator 12 Schneiderman's comment was it was Pataki's and 13 Bruno's problem. 14 The last time I knew, the Speaker's 15 name was Silver. The last time I knew, it 16 took that house, this house, and the guy on 17 the second floor to make it happen. 18 So let's not make excuses. When 19 you want to start making all these excuses, 20 remember '06? "Elect us to Congress and 21 you'll see something." Do you know, as of 22 today, there's been more bills passed in the

23 Iraqi legislature than there has in the House 24 and the Senate of the United States. So when 25 we talk about doing something, look at that. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2052 1 Here's the problem. They've done 2 nothing, we've done nothing. Someone says 3 about the workers -- let's talk about people, 4 as Marcellino said, everybody -- this is this 5 isn't just about somebody going on a vacation. 6 Going on a vacation? Somebody needs to eat. 7 My good friend John Sabini comes up 8 in my area and spends his money at my tracks 9 and then goes and has a good meal. 10 Let's stop fooling ourselves. 11 There's something here called a chapter 12 amendment. You think you got something good? 13 You bring it to Lanza. I think Lanza did a 14 super, super job today. 15 And you're to be commended, because 16 you didn't fall down when people tried to 17 knock you down. You stood up and spoke for 18 the people of the State of New York. I thank 19 you. 20 And I vote yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 22 you, Senator Larkin. You will be recorded in 23 the affirmative. 24 And if you have any other tidbits 25 about people's personal actions, you can let

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2053 1 us know about those. 2 (Laughter.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Craig Johnson, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 6 very much, Mr. President. I will be voting in 7 the affirmative. 8 I have to say I find it very 9 interesting that my friend Senator Volker, who 10 used to sit next to me, referred to the 11 McCain-Clinton bill in Washington. I think 12 given the way Washington is being run these 13 days, maybe it should be referred to as the 14 Clinton-McCain bill. 15 But I think whichever way you talk 16 about it, the important thing is it 17 demonstrates a bipartisan commitment by those 18 two senators to reduce the price of gas. 19 And I think today what has become 20 apparent in this debate is you have that same 21 bipartisan commitment by the New York State 22 Senate. And maybe if Senator Lanza wants to 23 open up his bill to sponsorship from this side 24 of the aisle, it would be another example of a 25 bipartisan spirit in showing a commitment to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2054 1 reduce the price of gas for our consumers.

2 But I will say, in hearing a 3 terrific debate and explanation of votes from 4 my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, in 5 talking about tourism and farming and talking 6 about, you know, the working class, I think 7 one thing that we need to remember about who 8 this bill is going to help are our young 9 people, our teenagers and our college students 10 who this summer are going to be driving to 11 jobs. 12 Who need these jobs to pay for 13 skyrocketing tuition costs, for skyrocketing 14 board costs at schools, and who need this 15 money for other types of expenses. And 16 instead, what they're going to be facing if we 17 don't take this action is simply taking the 18 money from their employer and giving it to the 19 gas station pump. 20 And this legislation will help 21 relieve that so that they can keep that money 22 that they've worked so hard for and keep it in 23 their pocket. 24 Obviously, in the discussion, 25 members of my side of the aisle have pointed Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2055 1 out some important flaws that have to be 2 addressed going forward. But clearly we can't 3 stop the progress of this bill to help our 4 constituents. But clearly a rebate program --

5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I have 6 to interrupt you, Senator. You are on the 7 two-minute line. 8 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, wow. 9 That's interesting, I thought -- well, that 10 being said, I will certainly sit down now and 11 say I do vote in favor of the bill. 12 Thank you very much. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 14 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 Senator Duane. 17 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 I actually was going to say 20 something for Senator Larkin's benefit, but he 21 stepped out to make a phone call. 22 (Laughter.) 23 SENATOR DUANE: Seriously. That 24 was for his benefit. 25 I want to thank Senator Lanza for Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2056 1 making sure that we all got the study. Thank 2 you very much. And because we're a chatty 3 crowd, I actually got to review it. 4 And, you know, I was here for 5 virtually all the debate, and I really did 6 listen to what people were saying. And I've 7 been conflicted about this, and I've changed

8 my vote a couple of times, both before the 9 debate and even during the debate. 10 You know, people are hurting in 11 New York State. And I know the importance of 12 tourism in New York State, and I also know 13 that in many places it's easy to buy gas in 14 New Jersey and Pennsylvania. These are very 15 compelling arguments. And also the price for 16 trucks. 17 But, you know, I would prefer we 18 had more rail freight. I even wish we used 19 more barges, and maybe this will push us in 20 that direction. 21 And I'm willing to be wrong in my 22 vote on this. But I think that we still have 23 time to do something for the summer, maybe 24 into the future. I think we can do it into 25 bipartisan way. So -- and I'm going to run Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2057 1 out of time. But I'm going to vote no on 2 this. 3 But I was very compelled by what a 4 number of Senators on both sides of the aisle 5 said. And I'm hopeful that we'll have a 6 bipartisan, both-house bill that we can be 7 proud of and that the Governor will sign. 8 Because, you know, I mean we're New Yorkers, 9 and we're the best, and we'll figure it out. 10 But I'm going to vote no on this,

11 Mr. President. Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 13 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 14 negative. 15 Senator Seward. 16 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 I rise in support of this 19 legislation. There is no question that the 20 high price of gasoline and diesel fuel is 21 killing families, businesses, and is having a 22 very negative impact on our state's economy. 23 And this is a problem that's much 24 larger than New York State. It's a national 25 and indeed an international problem and Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2058 1 phenomenon of what we're seeing in terms of 2 these high prices. 3 And we in New York State, when it 4 comes to the price of petroleum products, we 5 are looking at a situation where so much of 6 this is beyond our control. We cannot do 7 anything about worldwide consumption and some 8 of these emerging economies, like in China and 9 India. We can't do anything about how much 10 oil is produced by the OPEC nations. We 11 cannot do much other than talk about the lack 12 of federal government action on this issue. 13 But there's one thing we can

14 control in New York, and that is the tax on 15 gasoline and diesel fuel. And that is what 16 this legislation is all about, taking some 17 action in an arena that we can control. 18 This legislation provides 19 admittedly short-term relief. It's a Band-Aid 20 on a larger problem. But it is relief, 21 meaningful relief for working families, 22 businesses, truckers, all those that need to 23 travel throughout this state. 24 And coming from an area that 25 depends very heavily on tourism for our Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2059 1 economy, this legislation will be a big boost 2 for our local economy, as it will help people 3 to afford to visit Central New York and 4 throughout our state. 5 Some people talk about the loss of 6 revenue under this legislation. I say if we 7 don't move forward with this type of 8 legislation, we're really going to see losses 9 of revenue -10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 11 you, Senator. Thank you very much. 12 (Laughter.) 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 14 You get my point, Mr. President. I 15 vote yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I

17 certainly do. You got my point too. 18 (Laughter.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 20 Senator Maltese. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 22 I first of all want to commend my good 23 colleague Senator Stachowski, because he comes 24 up with a commonsense approach. If this bill 25 is going to reduce the taxes on one of my Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2060 1 constituents who wants to fill up with a tank 2 of gasoline, then I'm for it. 3 I commend Senator Adams, who says 4 this is not a Republican or a Democrat bill, 5 it is a commonsense bill and it is a bill that 6 can be supported. 7 On the other hand, I take issue 8 with a colleague who says -- who lectures us 9 for 15 minutes on everything that's wrong with 10 the bill and then says "On the other hand, I'm 11 voting for it." 12 I at least could admire a good 13 colleague who's not here in the chamber who 14 tells us everything that's wrong with it and 15 then says that he's going to vote against it. 16 On the other hand, he seems very, very 17 conversant and knowledgeable about every gas 18 station in New Jersey as he fills up his tank, 19 rather than here in New York.

20 Mr. President, when I'm asked by a 21 constituent "How did you vote on a bill that 22 would have reduced the taxes on gasoline for 23 my car for even a limited period of time?" -24 Mr. President, I'm going to tell him I vote 25 aye. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2061 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 2 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 3 affirmative. 4 Senator Oppenheimer. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh, good. 6 (Laughter.) 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Sorry. 8 Scratch that. 9 In a bipartisan fashion, I would 10 like to say that I wholeheartedly support what 11 Senator Marcellino was saying about the home 12 heating oil, where he has a bill, and I will 13 try to get on it, which will give a thousand 14 dollars during January and February to those 15 families that are less well-to-do and need 16 help with their heating oil. 17 The same should apply to this. If 18 we want to make sure that it is going to the 19 people that need it, we should give a $100 20 rebate to families earning $150,000 or, you 21 know, $175,000. Then you know the money is 22 getting to the right place.

23 My problem with this is that my 24 fear is that the money will not go to the 25 motorist and that, instead, it will go to the Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2062 1 refiner, to the wholesaler. We have seen 2 that. We have seen the remarkable growth in 3 the profits of our oil companies just this 4 year. 5 So my feeling is that we have seen 6 empirical evidence that this does not work. 7 Because we had 15 counties that had been part 8 of the rebate, the cap on sales tax, and seven 9 of those counties found that the savings was 10 not going to the motorist -11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 12 you, Senator. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- and the 14 savings was not going -- I'll finish the 15 sentence -- the savings was not going to 16 anyone -17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 18 you, Senator. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- and not 20 to the government. And that's why they had to 21 increase their property sales tax. 22 So I'm going to be against it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 24 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the -25 what, negative? How did you vote, Senator?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2063 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm against 2 it. No. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: No. 4 Recorded in the negative. 5 Senator Onorato. 6 SENATOR ONORATO: To explain my 7 vote, Mr. President. 8 I think that Senator Lanza has good 9 intentions. But as we all know, many good 10 deeds go unpunished. 11 This bill may have another side 12 effect when we start to take $620 million out 13 of the budget. It's got to be made up 14 somewhere, and I'm afraid that that somewhere 15 is going to fall on the shoulders of our 16 senior citizens, who may be deprived of some 17 of the benefits that they're being entitled to 18 along the year. 19 But I'm certainly not going to vote 20 against anything that's going to reduce taxes 21 on a short-term basis. But I also want to 22 remind people that there is definitely a 23 consequence to this bill. 24 I vote aye. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2064 1 you, Senator Onorato. You will be recorded in

2 the affirmative. 3 Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. I'm going to be very quick, 6 because I see most of our colleagues are 7 heading in different directions. There goes 8 another one right now. 9 But I want to thank Senator Lanza, 10 not only for the excellent manner in which he 11 presented this proposal to all of us and the 12 arguments he made, the many, many questions he 13 answered, but the fact that he did it over an 14 extended period of time and he did it with 15 style and grace. 16 Unfortunately, we had some members 17 who chose a different path. We can argue, 18 obviously, and debate and discuss -- that's 19 what we're here to do -- different points of 20 view on any issue. But when we stand up and 21 challenge the motivation of another member, 22 citing this bill as reflecting the stench of 23 political pandering, that's totally 24 uncalled-for. It has no place here. 25 And those who do that should be, I Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2065 1 think, chastised. And that's why I'm standing 2 up. He's not here, though. 3 Some said what have we done for the 4 home heating fuel, for people who are paying

5 these high prices to heat their homes and so 6 on. Well, I remind you we eliminated the 7 state sales tax completely on home heating 8 energy fuel. And you all voted for it, 9 everybody. I didn't hear anything about 10 pandering then. 11 We eliminated the sales tax on 12 clothing entirely. Previously we had done it 13 for certain increments of time, for certain 14 thresholds, $110. And then we eliminated it 15 completely in the City of New York and 16 elsewhere. I didn't hear anybody say that was 17 pandering. 18 Why did we do those things? For 19 two basic reasons. We were helping our 20 constituents. And that's what we're supposed 21 to do in bad economic times. And we listened 22 to others, like the Mayor of the City of 23 New York, who said people are going over to 24 New Jersey to shop because the sales tax is 25 less. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2066 1 And as Senator Lanza pointed out 2 time after time, they're going over there to 3 buy gas because it's less -4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- as a result 7 of the sales tax.

8 I thank you too, Senator. 9 (Laughter.) 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: You've done a 11 great job. If anybody hasn't said so lately, 12 let me do so now. 13 I vote aye. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 15 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 Senator Breslin. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I couldn't agree with Senator 21 Padavan more. In terms of a three-hour 22 debate, a three-hour debate back and forth, 23 Senator Lanza, you were graceful in answering 24 questions and trying to take the right 25 approach. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2067 1 But my conclusion is that nothing 2 I've heard today guarantees that those 3 refiners, that those distributors will pass on 4 that 32 cents they're going to gain through 5 the tax. And I've watched counties, in Albany 6 and around me, who have capped and seen the 7 prices stay where they are, no benefit to the 8 consumer. And I'm not convinced that that 9 won't happen here. 10 And if it doesn't, if it happens

11 here that it isn't passed on, come September, 12 as we've done in the past, we'll face a 13 $600 million deficit. And what do we do then? 14 We do as Senator Onorato said. We put it on 15 the backs of the middle class, the elderly, 16 the marginalized, and say: Go away, your 17 property taxes are increased. Or go away, you 18 have less health benefits. 19 So unless and until I am convinced 20 that that will be passed on -- because, you 21 know, even if it is passed on, we're talking 22 about people paying $3.70 a gallon. So I vote 23 no. 24 Thank you, Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2068 1 you, Senator Breslin. You will be recorded in 2 the negative. 3 Senator Sabini. 4 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. To explain my vote. 6 I can see why there's a spirit of 7 debate, and I can't fault anyone for voting 8 yes or no on this legislation. But I have a 9 different -- perhaps different way of looking 10 at this. 11 Senator Connor mentioned how we 12 have people who are experts in the oil 13 industry in the White House and in the

14 number-two spot in Washington. I don't think 15 that's an accident. We don't have any oil 16 wells in this state that I know of. We don't 17 produce oil. Yet the price of crude oil by 18 the barrel is at record highs. 19 Last Friday the largest corporation 20 in the history of the planet we live on, Exxon 21 Mobil, announced a record profit for the 22 quarter -- and their stock fell. What does it 23 say about the economic times that we live in 24 and the examples that are set in our world 25 economy if, in making record profits, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2069 1 investors felt it wasn't enough on the backs 2 of the consumer? 3 So I think that we're pointing the 4 fingers at ourselves here and saying we should 5 cut $500 million from the General Fund. I 6 think the bill is a little cynically drafted. 7 A lot of people have been praising the bill. 8 It's a B print. The original money came out 9 of the Highway Maintenance Fund and out of the 10 MTA, and I guess maybe some people on the 11 other side wouldn't have been able to vote for 12 that, then, so we now made it the murky 13 General Fund, so no one really gets hurt. 14 Except we do. The people from the 15 State of New York will get hurt to the tune of 16 $500 million.

17 And Senator Volker said he noticed 18 who voted no on this. I'm noticing who's 19 voting yes on this. 20 Some people had no problem a couple 21 of weeks ago -- have no problem putting money 22 into the back end of a car by giving us money 23 back on the gas tax, but had no problem taking 24 8 bucks off the front end of the car if you're 25 driving in Manhattan. Some of the same people Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2070 1 voting yes today were ready to vote for that, 2 and I didn't hear any hand-wringing then about 3 working people in New York, like some of us 4 had raised. 5 So now -6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 7 you very much, Senator. 8 SENATOR SABINI: -- I'm going to 9 be voting no. I don't think that there's any 10 good or bad in this. I think you can have a 11 difference of opinion. But I'll be casting my 12 vote in the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 14 you very much, Senator. You will be recorded 15 in the negative. 16 Senator Krueger. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. I also want to say what a fine 19 job you've been doing today. Don't take that

20 off my two minutes. 21 So I started several hours ago 22 arguing that this bill was bad policy. And I 23 listened to most of the debate -- I got called 24 out for a few minutes. And again, I would 25 still make the argument with respect to Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2071 1 Senator Lanza's bill that I'm not sure it's 2 good public policy to reduce the price of 3 petroleum. But that's not the argument we 4 were having today. That's not the argument 5 we're faced with right now. 6 If we want to reduce the price of 7 petroleum for drivers in New York State, I 8 would argue we want a bill that actually gives 9 them the money. And that if that was the 10 assignment, this wasn't the right bill. 11 So I have to vote against this for 12 two reasons, Mr. President. One, because I'm 13 not sure it's good public policy, even under 14 these difficult circumstances, to lower the 15 cost of gasoline. And before one more person 16 attacks my wonderful borough of Manhattan, we 17 pay more for gas than upstate New York. 18 Two, if you're going to do that, 19 then I would argue you want to do it through 20 your tax system, through an actual rebate that 21 goes to the people most in need. This is a 22 bill that research and science and history in

23 New York State show us will increase the 24 profit margin for the oil industry, not reduce 25 the prices at the pump. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2072 1 And my colleague Senator Connor, 2 Marty Connor, when he said the price will go 3 up 32 cents right before elections, is 4 absolutely correct. We won't see the price go 5 down, but we sure will see that 32 cents add 6 on the day this bill goes out of effect. 7 So I vote no for several reasons. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 10 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 11 negative. 12 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to 13 explain her vote. 14 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 15 you, Mr. President. Just to explain my vote. 16 It is clear that we have had a long 17 and hearty debate here, and I want to go on 18 the record as saying very clearly that while I 19 think that the bill intent by Senator Lanza is 20 an excellent one -- and I don't think that 21 there was anything in my presentation or the 22 majority of the presentations that negated 23 that -- my concern was that I did not see in 24 the bill a way to ensure that what we say we 25 want to have happen will in fact happen.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2073 1 And the reason I asked for the bill 2 to be held was so that we could create the 3 language that would help us to guarantee that. 4 Not to stall, but to ensure that what we say 5 we're doing is what is really going to happen. 6 Because when we don't deliver what we promise, 7 I think we do a greater disservice than when 8 we don't do anything at all. 9 So, Mr. President, even after three 10 and a half hours of sitting through this 11 debate, I continue to vote no without those 12 guarantees. 13 Thank you, sir. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 15 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 16 negative. 17 Senator Stewart-Cousins, to explain 18 her vote. 19 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank 20 you, Mr. President. 21 I rise -- and I do want to 22 congratulate my colleague Senator Lanza for 23 putting this forward. And I rise not only to 24 explain my vote, but I really want to explain 25 my vote. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2074 1 Because when I spend time in the

2 district, what I do is what everybody does. 3 We go around, we talk to our constituents. I 4 will say beyond a doubt that this issue is the 5 thing that really people are talking about. 6 If I talk to my seniors, they're concerned 7 about gas. If I talk to the young people, 8 they're concerned. Everyone understands there 9 is pain at the pump. 10 So I stand here today to say I'm 11 going to vote for this piece of legislation 12 because it's important that people understand 13 that we hear them and that we are responsive. 14 But I also want to explain that when I leave 15 here, the prices are not going to go down, 16 because there is work that we have to do. 17 There is work on the Assembly side, 18 there is work with the Governor, there is 19 work. Because people will have listened to 20 this for three hours and believe that 32 cents 21 will be off of their gas bill. That will not 22 be the case. 23 With the passion that Senator Lanza 24 has, I think that passion, with a bipartisan 25 effort, can get us somewhere, can get us Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2075 1 relief for our constituents, can get us beyond 2 a three-hour debate to the reality of really 3 abating the pain that people are experiencing 4 at the gas pump.

5 So yes, I will vote for this piece 6 of legislation. But I really am looking 7 forward to the day when we can indeed reduce 8 the taxes and indeed also find a way in our 9 legislation to penalize those who do not pass 10 on the savings. 11 I vote aye. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 13 you, Senator. 14 And the last person I have listed 15 to explain his vote is Senator Robach, before 16 they put the lights out here. 17 SENATOR ROBACH: Can I have four 18 minutes, Mr. President? 19 (Laughter.) 20 SENATOR ROBACH: No, just joking. 21 I would say, very quickly, this has 22 been a good debate. It is good. We clearly 23 need a national policy. But I don't think 24 there's anything wrong with being populist at 25 times. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2076 1 People talk about bipartisan. I 2 don't know where people are living, I don't 3 know anybody that says we don't pay enough tax 4 in New York. This is something, the economy, 5 everybody knows if you lower the tax, 6 competition will lower it. 7 Would we like to get into the

8 profits of gas companies? Absolutely. 9 Hopefully they'll find a way to do that. 10 But in the interim this is, as has 11 been said before, one thing we can do to help 12 people. And not only help them. In upstate 13 New York it's just a fact -- yes, you can 14 conserve, you can do different things. But 15 certain people in their businesses are going 16 to drive to work, they're going to deliver 17 food, they're going to deliver medicine. Kids 18 commute to college. That's the way it is. 19 They don't have a choice. 20 And this policy will help young and 21 old, working families, businesses, private 22 people, everything. This is a great tax to 23 cut. 24 And I want to say on the record 25 just the opposite -- you're right, we Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2077 1 shouldn't take it off in September. We should 2 go right through. With rising gas prices, 3 rising food prices, adjustable-rate mortgages, 4 talking about the economy, we ought to use the 5 rainy day fund, whatever it is, because in my 6 district it's pouring for those people. 7 Let's do something that's popular 8 instead of worrying about policies at other 9 levels of government and things we can't 10 control. This is why I'm very happy to

11 applaud Senator Lanza and vote yes. People 12 want it, people need it. 13 Do I have any time left? No, I'm 14 only kidding. 15 (Laughter.) 16 SENATOR ROBACH: I vote in the 17 affirmative. Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 19 you, Senator. 20 Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 1086 are 23 Senators Breslin, Connor, Duane, Gonzalez, 24 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery, 25 Oppenheimer, Parker, Perkins, Sabini, Sampson, Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2078 1 Schneiderman, Serrano and Stavisky. 2 Ayes, 46. Nays, 15. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 4 bill is passed. 5 Senator Griffo, that completes the 6 controversial reading of the calendar. 7 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 I have a couple of motions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All 11 right. 12 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, 13 on page 41 I offer the following amendments to

14 Calendar Number 594, Senate Print 3852A, by 15 Senator Flanagan, and ask that said bill 16 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 18 amendments are received, and the bill will 19 retain its place on the Third Reading 20 Calendar. 21 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, 22 on page 45 I offer the following amendments to 23 Calendar Number 682, Senate Print 2879, by 24 Senator DeFrancisco, and ask that said bill 25 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910 2079 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 2 amendments are received, and the bill will 3 retain its place on the Third Reading 4 Calendar. 5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, 6 is there any further business before the desk? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: No, 8 there is not. 9 SENATOR GRIFFO: There being 10 none, then I move that we adjourn until 11 Monday, May 12th, at 3:00 p.m., with 12 intervening days being legislative days. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On 14 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 15 Monday, May 12th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 16 days being legislative days.

17 Good night and good luck. 18 (Whereupon, at 3:16 p.m., the 19 Senate adjourned.) 20 21 22 23 24 25 Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. (518) 371-8910

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