An interview for an American Pagan magazine in 2001 Although this is an old interview, I think it has some still relevant

points in regards to inner work. I no longer work with the concept of the inner convocation and the four temples, but it can be an interesting path for others to follow in their own way.

"Inner Convocation, The School of Visionary Magic"; that is the name of your website and what you teach. It has a rather modern "ring" to it when compared with, say, "Craft of the Wise" or "Old Ways", and yet this path is very ancient, isn't it? Can you tell us a bit about it as an introduction?

I use the title Inner Convocation, because that is what it is…it is a place of consciousness in the inner realms where people, mediators of all worlds, times and traditions come together. There are many versions of it around the world and it is not a new concept. It is a communal gathering place for consciousness that comes together around a flame: the fire of Divinity at the edge of the void. It is also a place where working unconditionally is a must. If you do anything for a reason, you create a polarity, a good and bad, and therefore you have to take responsibility for your creation. It is something that has come purely from you and is now let loose on the world. So if , for example, you go into the IC and into a temple to work with the inner contacts to create world peace, you will have to bear the responsibility of everything that comes from that. It may not be a time for peace. We as humans have no concept of the long term implications of power. To work unconditionally is to go into the IC and the temples, and open a doorway for what ever is necessary to come through for a situation. That way, you are using the unique ability of humans to mediate power from one world to another without interfering in the natural order of what is needful. I did not use something like “ old ways” because visionary work is timeless. Time is not an ultimate truth, nor is it linear, that idea is bound merely by the physical substance and gravity. So the idea of old and new, before and after, fall away where there is no substance to hang that concept on. In Wicca, and most pagan traditions, there are physical rituals, use of objects, use of nature etc, and such methods of working are therefore bound by time. So of course it would make sense to talk of something as an ‘old way’ if it comes from a time past. But visionary work does not use substance and is therefore not bound by time. It all makes sense after a few pints of Guinness.

2. Journeying via the Inner Flame to the Convocation is similar and, yet, very different (in my mind) from what most Pagans "do" in spiritual journeying, (or perhaps I should say it's very different from what one usually finds these days in the mainstream books and workshops). How difficult is it to visit the Convocation without a trained guide, Priest, or Priestess? Would you consider it perhaps even dangerous to do so?

And yet. Azal. that visions are a vital tool for all spiritual/mystical practitioners regardless of their tradition. video. Being a high priestess 5degrees to the left will cut no ice in this place. Some of the visions I use are old traditional visions. otherwise. particularly in our culture of externalization. I'm going to put you on the spot here :) In your novel. it is our most powerful access to the inner worlds. and that can be very shocking. If someone is trying to build a relationship with this place without help. many traditions and religions have many powerful mystical visions. We are also living in an age where the imagination is seen as something trivial. as if picking up a book and reading it. Inner focus helps you to build the pathway to this place and inner discipline teaches you how to use this place responsibly. to me. You eventually meet yourself without your worldly dressing. There is no dressing up. but when they are used they are timeless. or are they intentional and poignant. you share them in your workshops. The early Christian fathers knew this and therefore steered people away from it. Because there are no grand visuals in the vision. A Retelling of Eve. where the inner elements manifest into the outside worlds. It is a place where you access the inner powers of the elements before they exteriorize. It is easy to become swept away by the power of this place because of its simplicity. just difficult. (a later incarnation of Azal. it is the most powerful place humans can access. It is a mode of transportation.I think the difficulty most people would find when they try to access the inner convocation for the first time without a guide would be inner self disciple. I believe). This is also known as the 4 inner temples. Ultimately you access yourself and that is where the inner focus really needs to come in. it is easy to dismiss it. no egos. because all of these things are directly related to substance and life. Are all of these visions meaningful to this modern time? To this lifetime? Are they snippets of things "past". The inner convocation is a place where everything comes together out of time. no hierarchies. I would suggest accessing it daily and allowing the vision to build slowly over the weeks. There is little internalization of the imagination. Do you personally believe this and/or is this in relation to Goddess energy only? . computer etc. 3. therefore you can access virtually anywhere via the convocation. I feel. And of course. Then the practitioner should start to explore the four thresholds of the directions. makes the statement that women are more powerful in energy work and more capable of channeling energy. Visions are an integral part of your work. The imagination is our most precious tool. It is the threshold of being. as do your students and peers of this path. no pretensions. in this time of change. one of the characters. It is certainly not dangerous. your novels. film. 4. All our imagination is ‘out there” as in TV. no vision would be granted? I feel that visions are very meaningful for this time.

move away from being bound by substance. Again it is a ritual death and they act as a fulcrum for the land power. While they sleep and dream. another sleeper is chosen and the old one is released. and working unconditionally. This is mirrored in the powers of the Deities. and their capacity to work in a more formless way is better than men. It is purely how the physical body filters power. in fact. That does not mean withdraw. that is what makes life interesting. do you see this returning as a Pagan funeral rite. within this there are always the awkward ones who do not fit the norm…. When it comes to the use of inner energy and its manipulation. perhaps? There are a variety of sleepers who are sleeping for different reasons. after a ritual death (volunteer. They are sustainers rather than creators or destroyers. often born into a specific line) stays in the land to act as an intermediary between the land/deity/spirits. to curse and bless. or the inner person. (an inner version of a higher pain threshold) Men have more ability to form patterns. anchored and ruled by polarity. This is nothing to do with sexuality. Another type of sleeper is one who upholds the land and the health of the land. We are also designed to accommodate larger amounts of power (holding two beings in one space during pregnancy for example). has prompted me into doing some research and future essays on some Arthurian "Sleepers". Men are also useless at finding things. Your work and research into the Ancient practice of "Sleepers" fascinates me. such as clean socks and the salt container that is right in front of them. As the time for release nears. 5. or we can choose to move beyond the restrictions by stepping sideways…. I think our challenge of this age is to move beyond the polarities.I think (nooo…don`t beat meeee) that the abilities of men and women are very different in some respects. Women have a higher power to create and destroy. just different. it is easier for women. and. Of course. which is crucial in magic (hence more powerful male magicians than females) and to hold power within patterns. The sleeper has a certain time limit of service after which they are released though the death cycle. If they awake and another dreamer does not take their . out of substance and therefore neutral. They also have a higher tolerance for attack. Rather it is to learn to use substance rather than being ruled by it. and. A third type of sleeper is one who dreams the land for the tribe. I don’t think that women are more powerful. In this time of change we can choose to either be bound. They are better at working with polarized power rather than formless power. One type is a sleeper who. keeping it in balance. Also the power to hold and find visions is easier for women. So then you are back to visions. A shaman or priest/priestess often interprets the communications of the sleeper for the tribe. We are designed to carry being into substance from un-being. Tell us a little bit about what a Sleeper is/was. the tribe/civilization/land stays in existence.

then the dream dissolves and the reality dissipates. I know that work with the Dark Goddess(es) is very important to you as well. Is this part of what you see as well? . But no one is replacing them. at times. For me. Yet. 7. That is happening already in an externalized form by scientists who are preparing seed banks of extinct or endangered plants. and loved. Powerful. There is a vision called ‘carrying the forest through time’. oathed. challenging and. They carry the external potential through time. to say the least. Taking one inner being of a plant or tree and sleeping through time with it deep within the earth. Because to exist. is an understatement :) Is this something that the Convocation Priests and Priestesses are wanting you/us to do? Is this part of the shifting consciousness of Earth/Gaia and Her children as they re-awaken? Basically…………yes! It is also a part of the awakening of the role we have to play during our time…. 6. But the knowledge of how to bind a soul to the land is virtually gone. So you are sleeping for the planet and the Goddess. The Lady. can be intimidating. we carry the inner potential through time. dreams and rituals. through your work and the work of others. I see it as a time for service to the land rather than the tribe. We do not need sleepers acting as go. who dig them up. they also MOVE and put things into motion.. though. I think. rather than for ourselves as a species. which shows you how to do this. you emerge out of the depths to replant the inner pattern of that being so that the outer pattern can manifest. And then when the time comes.betweens for us any more as our consciousness has loosened to a point where we can commune with deities ourselves through visions. they need both. So who is dreaming existence for us? As for this method returning? I’m not sure. into the future. What I have found is that it is important to take species of the forests. it seems that She wants to also be seen (again) as the "shaker and mover". I feel that our time is all but gone in a planetary sense (which is a long time off in human terms) but that as mediators it is our job to do the bidding of the Goddess.place. Now.sleeping for the Goddess and being a mediator unconditionally. It is a time of awakening the imagination and moving beyond the selfish drive to propagate and consume. their inner patterns. for all these years of Christian dominance. I think we have to learn to look forward and see what we need to do in this time of change. But we still need dreamers and guardians of the land. Your workshop visions are. has spoken (on a large scale) to the world as Mary and/or the Madonna figure. Our problem today is that many sleepers are being awoken by archeologists. This can be done in visions. something to be feared.

destruction and cleaning the face of the earth. It shows how the power of the Goddess manifests and how female power emerges from the ashes of destruction ( and how female power brings through destruction). You have a second novel coming out at any time. (writings. At that time. That is what the second novel is about. It is set in modern day English gypsy communities. magic and deities. Finally. if you will. it was prophesized that a woman. this is a time of re awakening. yes. The Thirteenth Manifestation is about the re emergence of the Dark Goddess as she manifests through a young girl. the more you learn when not to act. if you were able to leave something. . 9. what would you leave and why? A piece of paper with “ Don’t Bother” written on it. in Pakistan and in India. a beloved of Kali.Again. tell us a little about that. This was the greatest wisdom I was ever given. would emerge to bring about the cleansing. 8. People bother too much…they get too involved and tied up in little knots and patterns without ever stepping back. It is about the time of destruction and cleansing. I think that the more you learn about power. etc) in a cave to be found later by future generations. how humanity has exteriorized so far out of the void that it has almost lost its sense of Divinity within. object.

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