Court Notes Briana Waters Trial Judge Burgess February 15th 2008 9AM (Prosecutor Friedman questions witness

Lacey Phillabaum) P: Recall we were talking about the morning after the Arson. Recall discussions of damage to car? L: May have been when I talked to Avalon about damage. He reassured that the damage was minimal. P: Plans to repair? L: He said he’d get touch-up paint wand to fix minor scrape P: Did you see the communiqué about what happened? L: Yes, it did. P: Ex.#349 Communiqué written after arson (A bit of confusion happened since the exhibit wasn’t inside the folder. It was found outside the folder) P: Read it to the Jury? L: Part 1: Sent by ELF pg 1. Center for Urban Horticulture(CUH). At 3:15AM Monday May 21, 2001, Researcher Toby Bradshaw’s office was reduced to smoke and ashes. His research would release mutant genes into the environment. The building was inspected for occupants then incendiary devices were set. We intended to only destroy his lab but fire spread due to poor response of the firemen. We are determined to stop genetic engineering. Cites other arsons of labs and genetic engineering experiments. Part 2: Clatskanie, Oregon. Jefferson Poplar Communiqué. Done because hybrid poplars are an ecological nightmare threatening (native?) populations (poplar is not native to the NW). You cannot control what is wild. P: Over time, did you learn more about the Center for Urban Horticulture? L: Yes, not sure if I knew at the time but started to understand what the offices were about. Looked at it in a limited way, because didn’t want to look back. While working for Oregon Tilth I started to understand what a mastergardener was and more about the community working for sustainable agriculture and the damage I had done to the community. It impacted me especially because of the books that were burned. I felt a lot of remorse.

P: Did you consider other arsons? L: No. P: Did you commit any other arson? L: No, I started to distance myself from ELF and radical environmentalism. It took from 1995 to 2001 to be willing to do this. This case has forced me to look back. P: Did you have a growing relationship with Meyerhoff? L: Our relationship grew. We got to know each other and began reintegrating back to mainstream. It was hard to do. P: Did Stan do more arson? L: I don’t know. P: Does part of distancing yourself have to do with Stan Meyerhoff? L: First part of getting uninvolved was admitting to each other that we didn’t want to be involved. Which was hard to do having met in this context. After 9/11 I decided it was intolerable to be involved with anything like this. We shared a mutual reinforcement of values. P: Do you remember other discussions about him becoming uninvolved? L: Yes, I told him my opinions after 9/11 when I read in the paper about the thing in California. Not sure if he was involved but I made it clear I thought it was unacceptable. Arson as a political tactic was completely illegitimate given the political context after 9/11. I focused on being non-violent after 9/11 and felt unacceptable to be involved. P: Did you see Briana Waters, Justin Solondz, or Avalon after the arson? L: BW-No. JS-don’t think so. Avalon-pretty sure no. Jen Kolar, yes at a bookclub meeting in Sisters, OR shortly after the arson. Since then I have not seen Jen Kolar. P: Have you had any other direct contact with Jennifer Kolar since 2001? L: No phone, e-mail, no friend of a friend (word of mouth), No Contact P: During 2000-2001 did you use marijuana? L: Yes P: How often?

L: I had a problem, I used it frequently. P: Did you use before or around the time of the planning meetings? L: No, Avalon had a strong ethic of not using drugs. What we were doing was serious. P: Did you use ecstasy during that time? L: no P: Since? How Often? L: Yes, The last time was 2002. Four times since December 2001. P: Did drugs affect your memory of events? L: No P: Why? L: They didn’t make me hallucinate. I was absent minded when I smoked but didn’t have a memory problem. Things I remember, I remember clearly. Things I don’t, I can’t remember. P: You moved to Charlottesville? L: Yes P: Stan moved to the east coast? L: Yes P: Where were you living when Stan was arrested? L: I was living in DC when Stan was arrested December 7, 2005 P: How did you learn about the arrest? L: He was living in a house I previously rented a room in and I talked my old housemate. I was calling my former housemate b/c I had not heard from him. P: You had no contact with Government? L: Not until late night the FBI left a voicemail about Stan being arrested. The next day I moved Stan’s car in Charlottesville. My car was in Charlottesville too so my friend drove and I move his car so it wouldn’t get towed. I got a copy of search warrant. He called me from Agent’s phone. Brief conversation. I was yelling hysterically get an attorney and not to say anything.

P: Did you speak to the agent? L: NO. Stan gave me the agent’s #. The next day or two later, I called the #. It was as long as Monday before I called. I had spoken with Stan on Friday. I asked if Stan retained counsel and where is the agent. Would not answer. There was no discussion of arson. P: Did you have a conversation about the arson with Stan after the next contact with Government? L: No P: After that, when was the next contact you had with the government? L: President’s Day Weekend 2006. My father got a call from FBI and relayed the substance to me. Feb. 21 was Tuesday so the call was on Saturday Feb. 18. The substance was that I was likely to be indicted on one if not two counts of arson. P: Did the agent provide details who was involved? L: No P: What happened after that? L: On Monday, I spoke with an attorney in Seattle and on Monday we had a preliminary conversation with the attorney, my father and myself. We met with the FBI on Tuesday the 21st of February. P: Were you promised anything at the meeting? L: I was not promised anything. I was told things would be better for me if I was forthcoming. I signed a piece of paper that said I wasn’t promised anything. P: Who provided information? L: I provided all the information the agent asked where I was born and whole story came tumbling out. P: Did the government provide any info on the arsons between the time of the call to your family and the meeting with the FBI? L: No. To this day I have not been provided significant information from the government about what happened. I am relying on memory alone. P: Regarding the reverse proffer. Did you receive any information? L: There was no information provided by the Feds/government.

P: Do you have reason to believe your attorney received any information? L: No P: You were shown pictures during the investigation. (Brings out a picture of Justin Solondz ex. 115) Do you recognize this picture? Do you recall having it shown to you? L: Yes, that is Justin Solondz. P: That is what you said, you named him. (Shows another picture ex. 115 A) Do you recall being shown this picture? L: Yes, but I was shown a smaller version of this picture. P: Do you recognize this picture? L: I didn’t know who that was when they showed me. Blown up it looks more like Justin but not especially no. (Prosecution is done. Bloom, defense attorney, begins cross-examination of Lacey) D: Have we met? L: No D: have you met the man here? L: I believe that must be Mr. Fox. D: How do you know? Have you read the pleadings? And how? L: My attorney sent to me the pleadings. I read them on my own when I was out of jail. D: Did Mr. Leavey give you this? L: I have a number of people I seek legal advice from. Mr. Leavey, Ochenbecker, Matthews, and both of my parents are attorneys. D: Did Mr. Leavey ask if you would speak to me or Mr. Fox? L: No. It was never clear to me that you had asked to speak to me. I thought you were requesting to speak to him not to me. D: Any reason why Leavey would write to us and say there is no point in further consultation? She will not agree to an interview or release me or Mr. Offenbecker to speak to you. Did he say or suggest?

L: No. If it had been relayed to me I would have replied that it would be important that I speak with Briana. He said that was not a possibility. I authorized him to evaluate whether he should meet with you. D: Why did he say she (Lacey) would not agree to meet with me? L: I authorized him to deal with the situation. I was not willing to meet with you unless Briana was there, I said to Mr. Leavey. D: Earlier yesterday Friedman asked if you bear any ill will toward Briana Waters. Your response was that you have sympathy for everyone in the case. Is there a reason why you did not answer the question? L: I bear no ill will towards Briana Waters. D: Why did you no answer the question yesterday? L: I was speaking generally not specifically. I have cultivated compassion for everyone in this case. D: It’s nice for the judge hear, isn’t it. L: I don’t think sympathy for my co-conspirators especially helps me. I am saying what is true, not what will help me. D: You called Justin Solondz Conner. L: I don’t know what I first knew him as but I knew him as Connor during events. D: When did you first meet Conner? L: During the action in 2001 @ Dusty WA. D: Who else was at the Dusty WA action? L: Chelsea Gerlach, Suzanne Savoie, Conner, Me (Lacey), Nathan Block, Joyanna Zacher, Daniel McGowan, and either Stan Meyerhoff or Avalon, not sure which. D: When was Dusty? L: Not sure. I think it was established yesterday as 2000. D: When? Was it summer? L: I don’t recall. D: You met Connor in 2000?

L: Yes, if that’s when the action was. D: Was it August 1st 2000? L: I don’t remember. D: Where is Dusty WA? L: I think Eastern Washington, near Pullman. D: You named 7-8 people. How did you get to Dusty? L: I might have driven with Chelsea both ways. D: Your car or her car? L: Her car. A small compact car. D: She took her car to the action. You said yesterday that if you couldn’t get a car not associated with activists it was often a deal breaker. She drove to the site? L: She took car to the area. We parked a ways away and walked to the site. We drove to the region in her car. Parked cars in parking lot, took different cars to action. D: What cars? L: Don’t know. Maybe Justin’s. D: Registered to his name? L: don’t know, I associated it with him. D: Did you see New Jersey license plate? L: I didn’t look. D: What kind of car was it? L: I believe it was an SUV- a fore-runner. D: But it was his car? You took his car to the action? L: It wasn’t a high level action. It was an introductory action, pulling up plants, in a rural area. D: Significantly different from taking own car to an arson? L: Yes.

D: You know from the pleadings that Justin’s car was used for arson at Jefferson Poplar farm May 21. Does this demonstrate a lie? L: No, It demonstrates that things do not always work in an ideal way. Coming by an anonymous car was difficult. D: They took a car in his name to Jefferson Poplar tree farm? L: Cars were often the lynchpin; coming by a non associated car was difficult. I cannot speak to what happened at Jefferson Poplar farm. I wasn’t there. D: You were involved in planning the Double whammy? L: No. D: Why did Stan Meyerhoff say so? L: He may recall differently. I was involved at the end of the planning. The plan was presented to me. Certain planning details were worked out while I was there. I questioned the decision about how much fuel to use, but most details were worked out in advance. D: So you had input into refining the planning? L: Yes. D: Were you aware of the fact that Justin’s car would be used at Jefferson Poplar? L: No. I had no knowledge of what happened at Jefferson Poplar until afterwards. D: You met Justin Solondz for the first time at Dusty? L: That was the first time I took note of him. D: Was there flirting between you and Justin? L: No D: Were you ever at the place where he lived? L: We went briefly to the bus that Justin lived in. D: Who else was there? L: Just Justin and myself. D: So, it was just you and Justin at his place of residence?

L: Yes. D: Describe the bus. L: It was a short bus, renovated to be a living space. D: A small space? L: Yes, it generally is when you live on a bus. D: How did you get to the bus? L: Justin took me there. D: Why? L: I think he needed to get something, I don’t know what. D: Give your best estimation of the amount of time you spent at the bus. L: Short. An hour or less. Probably less than an hour. D: What did he get? L: I don’t know. D: Why did he take you? Did he need you to help get something heavy? L: No, we were already together for some other reason. D: What did you do in the less than an hour? L: I have no particular memory. At some point we had the idea that we might take a nap. Neither of us had slept. I was on his bed for awhile. I didn’t fall asleep. We left. D: You had interaction with Justin? L: I think the implication is that we had a sexual interaction. That is not correct. D: Was there anywhere to sit other than the bed? L: I don’t recall. D: But you remember the bed. L: It was at the end of the bus. We talked about taking a nap. I am not sure if he lay down on the bed.

D: You told Agent Halla that Conner took a nap while you were there. L: I don’t remember. I may have discussed it with him. It is unclear whether Justin was on the bed. 9:44 Stop (break) D: What were you doing together before you went to the bus? L: Errands. D: What kind? L: Don’t recall. D: How long were you together? L: I can’t say. D: What day of the week was it? L: Saturday or Sunday, the weekend before the arson. D: Where was the bus in relation to the center of Olympia? L: I don’t know Olympia. D: A rural or urban area? L: More rural. We drove there in his car – S.U.V. D: You are unable to tell us how long you were together on that day? L: Yes. D: You knew him for several months? L: I had met him once prior. D: Had you seen him since? L: I saw him once maybe twice. D: When? L: Once at a meeting prior to UW arson and another time in Eugene briefly. He was with some other people. I waved when he went by. D: You had no intimate relations with him.

L: I never had intimate relations with him. D: Ever heard of Bill Clinton (makes a reference to Monica Lewinsky scandal). L: I never gave him a blow job either if that’s what you’re implying. D: Do you recall when Briana said to you “how dare you have an affair with my boyfriend”? L: No. D: You learned from Briana that Justin had informed her about you and him? L: I don’t think so. I thought they had broken up D: What about you getting involved with other people’s men? Chelsea Gerlach was with Stan Meyerhoff before you were together. That’s your m.o, isn’t it. You think its OK to go after a man because hs is breaking up with a woman. L: No. D: Is there bad blood between you and Chelsea about the way in which you got involved with Stan? L: They were broken up. Chelsea and I have an uneasy relationship and my relationship with Stan is part of it but its not an important part. When you say “m.o.” I feel my sexual history is on trial, but it has no bearing as to whether Briana Waters was at the UW arson. D: That’s for the jury to decide. Its about whether you bear ill-will toward Briana, because you didn’t answer the question yesterday. L: I bear no ill-will toward Briana Waters. D: Briana called you all kinds of names. “Disrespectful, unprincipled, not fit to be involved with the movement”. L: I recall I went to Avalon and asked “what is going on with Briana? She seems upset. You put a lot of trust in her.” worried about working with Briana. I told him Justin had told me they were broken up. Avalon raised his eyebrow, as if it was not consistent with his understanding. Its reaching for me to remember being grilled by Briana, the memory is hazy. D: Because of marijuana? L: No. D: Because you don’t like to remember being called “unprincipled”?

L: No. It was because it was a confusing situation, and I never had relations with Justin. I didn’t even know if she was accusing me of that. We just discussed taking a nap on the bus. D: You say your recollection is that it happened on the weekend of the arson, your conversation with Avalon. L: I’m not sure when it was. D: Think about it. L: Its difficult to distinguish between the two times I was in Olympia. D: You could do it yesterday. L: I don’t know, did I? D: You told the jury, this time, that time, etc. L: Yesterday I testified about the arson. I tried to be as detailed as I could. D: How many times have you gone over your testimony with Mr. Friedman? Have you discussed before yesterday what he would ask you? L: Yes., One time completely, and abbreviated versions at two other times. D: When did you go over the full story? L: Five weeks ago. Jan. 9th. D: Where? L: SEATAC Bureau of Prisons Detention Center. D: How much time did you spend on the complete testimony? L: We did it quickly, maybe two and a half to three hours. D: When did you go over abbreviated story? L: Sometimes last week. He asked about some things in more detail, went through some things more slowly at SeaTac FDC. We didn’t spend a lot of time on that but I spent a significant amount of time with Mr. Friedman that day, talking about my concerns, all sorts of issues. D: Go back to what you remember about Briana saying unpleasant things, accusing you… do you regard yourself as a feminist? L: Yes

D: Do you remember her saying your conduct was anti-woman and antifeminist? L: The language is familiar. I only remember now when you say it. I remember I thought Justin was not her boyfriend, Justing told me otherwise. He said hw was going through problems with his ex-girlfriend. Of course over time I came to understand he had tension with his close friend, with whom he was transitioning out of a relationship. D: You now seem to recall unkind things said to you by Briana. That you had sexual relations with Justin? L: You have triggered a hazy memory of something that have happened. I am unsure of it. It sounds familiar, but I would never attest that such a hazy memory was correct. D: Do you thing her pinpointing, describing your unprincipled behavior might make you feel ill-will? If I were to call you… It seems to be that your memory is now being revived or refreshed? L: I have no independent memory. You remind me. Its hazy, I’m not sure of it. D: However hazy, would it not have triggered ill-will? L: If I felt there was a genuine misunderstanding, then no. D: If someone called you an “unprincipled slut”. Would you feel ill will? L: Not if the information was inaccurate. D: What if it were accurate? L: If I were an unprincipled slut would it bother me to be called an unprincipled slut? I don’t know because I’m not an unprincipled slut. D: Who is Jeff Hogg? L: My ex-boyfriend. D: Another ex-boyfriend. How many boyfriends have you had since 1996? OBJECTION D: Is it true you have no respect for women’s boundaries with their men? If a man interests you he is fair game? L: No. D: You know that Jeff Hogg is now with a woman named Cecilia. They have a

baby. You are able to make phone calles, send emails. Have you called their home? L: No. D: Have you sent emails to Jeff? L: Yes. D: How many since you self-surrendered? L: I don’t know. D: You have not been sentenced yet. Your sentence has been put off until after Briana’s trial. L: Correct. D: This has happened twice. You have been ready to be sentenced but learned that the trial was put over and therefore the sentencing. So they have that hanging over your head. You won’t get sentenced until you testify. L: Yes. D: When did you self-surrender? L: January 2007. D: In the period of time since how many emails have you sent to Jeff Hogg? L: Maybe thirty. D: Has he responded? L: Yes, we communicate. D: They censor it in jail, clear incoming and outgoing emails? L: I assume so. D: In approximately 30 emails has Jeff told you Cecelia (his wife) is not at all happy about the emails? L: I don’t know if he told me. I know that Cecilia is not happy about it. D: You continue to write him. L: Jeff is a dear friend of 14-15 years. D: Has he made it clear that Cecilia does not want you to interact?

L: Yes. But I know that Jeff wants to be in touch with me. I get support from him. Friendship. D: Does he give you support for anything in return? L: No, just friendship. D: Did Jeff get involved with anything illegal? L: Jeff was at Book Club meetings. D: Do you have an arrangement that you won’t speak about Jeff and you’ll get something after the trial? L: There is no arrangement between us. D: Were Stan and Chelsea together for a long time? L: Yes. D: There came a time he became your boyfriend, fiance. L: Yes. D: Are you married to Stan? L: No, Engaged. I have an engagement ring that I bought at a dime store. D: How long have you been intimately involved? L: We have been partners for seven years. D: Was it a shock that Stan spoke to the authorities about your activities after he was arrested December 7th 2006. L: I don’t know what he told them. It was less shocking that he cooperated than that the arrests happened at all. D: Have you seen Stan since the arrest? L: Once Did he tell you he informed on you? L: No D: Did he tell you he gave info to the FBI? L: I suspected it during the phone call the day after, he said something fatalistic. Then when I say him he said that he betrayed everyone.

D: Did you come to believe or know he betrayed you? L: I don’t know what he has said about me. At times I thought yes, at times no. D: You knew he was naming names? L: At the visit, he indicated he named others. I pointed to myself, and he nodded his head. I was trying to know if he told about me. D: You were named by your own fiance. L: We weren’t engaged at that point. But yes, boyfriend, yes. D: Is it difficult to communicate with Stan because the authorities monitor? L: No unmonitored communication with Stan since the arrest, and no communication now. Always careful about what I said. Personal and general conversation as opposed to criminal events. D: No talk about criminal events? L: Nope. D: Have you belonged to a Zero Population group? A group that thinks people shouldn’t have children? L: No. I don’t think so. D: Do you know Briana has a child? L: Yes. D: Am I correct that you show disdain for people who have children? Did you call people with children ‘breeders’? L: I never called them breeders. Never a particular belief of mine. Always a trend within EF!. I never supported the idea that a vasectomy was doing your part for the earth. D: So you didn’t call people with children breeders? L: I am not saying the word never came out of my mouth, but its not what I think about people with children. D: You grew up in an upper-middle class family? L: No middle class youth. My parents are lawyers but it took them a long time to build their practice. So I am not a rich and spoiled kid.

D: Do you remember editing for Earth First Journal? Do you remember writing articles describing your family as “upper-middle class” in march of 1997? L: Yes. By the time I wrote that my parents were probably upper-middle class. D: You are not spoiled and rich? L: No. I didn’t grow up spoiled and rich and and I am not spoiled and rich. D: You grew up in Spokane. You were on the debating team? L: Yes D: You were a racing skier? L: Yes. D: You went to U of O. Were you on the debate team there? L: When I attended UW I was working part time, focussed on my studies I debated only first quarter. I was a debater in High school. D: You are a writer. You have debating skills. A way with words. L: Yes D: You have a way with words, written and spoken? L: I feel like I have lost my public speaking ability, but I was practiced in high school. D: If you stay with your deal, the best sentence for you is three years, the worst is five years right? L: Yes. D: Judge Burgess is sentencing you right? L: Yes. D: One of the inputs of the sentence is what the prosecutors tell the judge about how well you do on the stand, right? Its fair to say you have an incentive to please the prosecutors. L: I am not particularly motivated by my plea deal. I am committed to fulfill it, but emotional and moral commitment which drives me to be honest is to the researchers who I victimized. I would rather do three years than five, but I will

do no more than five no matter what I say. D: But if you said you made it all up about Briana the deal would be over. L: yes. Deal before over if I said I lied. D: How about the prison attire you are wearing? Do you have to wear prison clothes at a trial? Who said you couldn’t wear street clothes. L: I wanted to wear street clothes. Mr. Friedman said its to not look like I am trying to deceive the jury about where I am. D: Did he say anything about looking sympathetic? L: I didn’t want to look sympathetic and tragic, I wanted to look normal. He said nothing about sympathy. I understood if I wanted to wear civilian clothes an effort would have to be made, a request approved. It wasn’t that important to me. D: Did you tell Mr. Friedman? L: Yes. He said the reason it was important was that I didn’t want to be hiding that I was in prison, hiding anything. D: Did it occur to you that someone would ask you if you were in prison? L: I thought it would be known. D: You put it on your website, that you were self-surrendering and going to jail. L: Friends did, not I. But it was public knowledge, yes. D: You have not seen Jen Kolar since one time after the arson? L: Yes, at a book club meeting, Sisters Oregon, one week to four weeks after the Arson. D: Where were you living? L: I lived in Eugene through December 2001. D: Were the book-clubs incubators? Was it a book club because you didn’t want to call it an arson club? L: No. It wasn’t an arson club. D: It was about radical action? L: It was also about the philosophy, and yes, I was a radical activist.

D: After the arson, when you saw reports on TV, did you feel bad? L: No. I kind of freaked out when I hear the firefighters on the scanner, but I didn’t hear at first about the books that were lost. D: So no remorse right way? Still into theorizing about how to undermine the establishment? L: Yes, I was still a radical activist. D: Who else was at Sisters? Chelsea Gerlach, Nathan Block, Joyanna Zacher, Me, Jeff Hogg, Diana Robin, Jennifer Kolar, Stan Meyerhoff, and Daniel McGowan? D: Was Briana there? L: No. BREAK Feb 15, 2008 1PM Bloom is cross examining Lacey Phillabaum D We were talking about the Sisters meeting. At the 4 other Book club Meeting Briana Waters was not there correct? L Yes D Did you have a nickname in this group? L I may have had one or two; the only one I remember is Reba. D Was there a meeting where you chose an ailment name? L There was a meeting where Jen Kolar handed out PGP disks at Santa where everyone had an ailment name. Is that some sort of joke? L If it was a joke I didn’t get it. D To conceal names? L Yes, PGP was at the point of security D Which meeting? L At Santa Cruz 2000

D Who was there? L Self, Stan, Jen, Chelsea, Diana Robin, Jeff, Nathan, Joyanna, Leroy (from Santa Cruz), Rod and Avalon. Those are the names I remember were there. D discussion about security that one person should not get a cell phone for another in the group? L I don’t recall that rule. D But it would be a ridiculous breach of security? L It depends on circumstances; it would be if person was trying to recruit you for Arson. D What if I was your Friend and had credit problems? L I wouldn’t buy a phone for anyone. “Neither a lender or borrower be” A piece of advice Stan gave me and it works well in prison. D And Stan is a good source of advice? L I am engaged to him, yes D During the time after 9/11, you said you remorse since arson L 9/11 made a very big impression on me and I began rethinking my involvement w/ radicalism D Stan committed arson after 9/11 in CA L I had no knowledge of it. I read about it in the court papers D (Susanville) Do you believe it now? L Yes he has been Convicted D one month after 9/11 L I have no basis to verify it D Did you read about it when it happened? L I'm not sure how I came to know about it. D didn’t you read that ELF had taken credit for Susanville? L yes D And you never discussed it with Stan Meyerhoff?

L No, I made it known it was stupid to be involved. My relationship with Stan was a deprogramming from serious ideological bent. I did not want to relive events. The opportunity to talk about it now is cathartic and penitential. D How long have you and Stan been together? L seven years D and you Never talked about that Action? L No –He has been involved in much arson and we were trying to move on in our lives D The Susanville event was 4 years 2 months before his arrest. You never once discussed incident w/ the man you would marry? L Reiterates that there was only general discussion after 9/11. She thought it was stupid to be involved. I was surprised Susanville happened because I thought everyone would have the same misgivings as I had D but at the meeting in Sisters OR you all were high fiving L No, it was a tense meeting about the communiqué. We had differences of opinion about the content. D but you were proud? Pleased with yourself? L It took me a long time to renounce it D you are a good debater aren’t you? L trying to be careful with words because important D But you’re a good debater L I haven’t debated since 18 years old. I debated in high school and into my first year of college. I had to stop in college because I was too busy with school and my part time job. D Before you decided to show remorse, two and a half months went by. It was about saving yourself. L My motivations were complex. Did not want to put my family through trial based on a lie D you are guilty? L Yes D Before, You claimed you met Brianna at Denny’s. Was she involved in Your

Motivations? L Not to my knowledge. The only way I knew her was because she participated in this arson. D You met Justin Solondz in the previous year L yes, a matter of hours-Dusty D and you had been together in Cabin? L is that unusual for a man and a woman to be in a residence together? I don’t think it is. In EF! Community it is not unusual to sleep in same space camping out or crashed on the floor. I never had sex with him. I never thought of it. D Remember bill Clinton and what he said? L I never gave him a blow job if that’s what you’re saying. Prosecution- Objection! Judge- Move on D what is Oregon Tilthe? You worked there L It’s one of three main influences of straightening me out D you were working at OR Tilthe at time you did arson L Yes, to my great shame I dishonored my employer D Do you feel bad about being here? L Yes D You don’t like Briana Waters because she told you who you are L I have no ill willed. I feel sympathy for her and for Justin Solondz who has fled D Have you seen Watch? L Heard her talk about it D When did she tell you off? L One of the two weekends working on UW arson D So she had it wrong about sex with Justin Solondz

L If she believes it, I had not known she believed it. D She didn’t accuse you? L It’s not a clear memory. I have not remembered it until today. D But it has come up and you have denied it. L I don’t know how this is relevant to Briana and the arson. It’s crazy to be raked over the coals about being an unprincipled slut. D The reason is because you did not answer the question yesterday “do you bear ill will towards Briana Waters?” L I bear no Ill will to anyone, to prosecutors, Briana Waters, former friends who have turned their backs on me. D Do you know that people turn their backs when you inform and especially when you lie? You know that don’t you? L No, I have no first hand experience. D And then you went to XXX? L yes D Was Stan Meyerhoff there? L Yes He drove the Van D was it JS’s Vehicle? L Don’t think so. Don’t remember he had a van. D Did you come to know that at the Susanville arson one of the participants was Joe Dibee? L I have read that in court papers D One of the Vehicles taken to site was JS’s vehicle! L I have not taken note D Did you know that SM drove his own silver Acura to arson? L No I didn’t know D Did you know that William Rodgers drove his own truck to Vail arson? Prosecution: OBJECTION she has no knowledge

D You have indicated sometimes not being able to find an anonymous car for an action is a deal breaker. These examples show how difficult it is. So what you do is use your own cars? L Sir, I was only involved in one arson. D When the rental car was leaving the scene of U of Washington arson; you said the impact of the car accident was huge? L in my enervated state, it felt huge D What do you mean?> L Leaving scene of crime any accident felt huge. D how fast was the car traveling? L 5 MPH D A bit slow for a get away… L they were crowded residential streets D Were your head lights on? L I assume so D What part of vehicle was hit? L the rear driver side door panel D did you see it? L later on D where was the car when you exit the car? L I have no distinct memory D When did you exit the vehicle? L I have no distinct memory. Who was in the car? L I have no distinct memory D who was in the car when you entered it? L Justin, Bill Rodgers, Jen Kolar, Briana Waters, and myself. It was a car not a

van D why did Jen Kolar say it was a van? L Perhaps she was involved in multiple arsons. I have no independent knowledge of what she saw. D What is ELAW? L It’s a conference in U of Oregon law school. A public conference D you attended? L yes D in 2000? L yes D on a panel you were a speaker? L I was on multiple ones one year, maybe that year D Do you remember saying at a panel nonviolence is being used to limit the movement? L I don’t recall D Do you remember saying Nonviolence is not the way to change? L No D do you remember talking about the culture of non violence? L Yes, I referenced an article D Did you believe there was a culture of nonviolence. L No D Did you tell the panel that property destruction was an available tactic? L Yes D Did you say that we shouldn’t let the fear of jail deter us? L I don’t Recall D Did you say it’s not important to reach out to middle class white people?

L I don’t believe I would said that. D Do you remember saying we must combine night time sabotage with daytime actions? L Yes D What kind of night sabotage? L Road blocks, Property destruction… D Arson? L No, I never wanted to be involved in arson until I did it. Do you want to know why I did it? D Was it because SM wanted you to? L NO D David Carr- a mentor- columnist for the New York Times. You two met in San Francisco Conference for alternative journalists? L Yes D You told him you would cooperate (with the feds)? L I told him I was in legal trouble D You told him you had not cooperated (with the feds)? L no D He was a friend? L We had a formal relationship because he is a more accomplished journalist but yes I felt friendly towards him. D You told him you didn’t tell Feds anything they didn’t already know? L I don’t recall D You told him because you were romantically involved made you transgress morals? L Don’t recall, I told him I was in legal trouble. (To Bloom) Can I see you note to improve my memory? D ex. A190 2pg doc. To refresh witnesses recollection Does that refresh you recollection?

L It’s clearly David’s perspective of the conversation we had D Did you tell David you had not cooperated? L I didn’t have reason to lie, it was probably before I talked to the feds. David believed he was talking to my attorney. It appears your investigator misrepresented himself to David D How do you know? L David wrote me a letter saying my attorney threatened to subpoena him and was unhappy at it. D I have a copy? L Yes D In your belongings at Seatac? L I feel like you harassed a prominent person who knows me. I don’t want to drag his name into it. D Who ever he thought he was talking to- Did you say you had not cooperated? Don’t know that you had been accused but never told the feds anything they didn’t already know? (in phone conversation) L I don’t know. I confessed to a prominent person I knew I had been involved to apologize and find out where I stood with him. I don’t recall saying… and have already said so three times. D Did you send emails to Brian Baker? L Yes D Hoping he would write a letter? L He wrote a letter to the Judge Burgess. D One of the things you told him was “I have not betrayed anyone.” L I don’t know. D Did you write to Jeff Hogg by email? L Yes D Told him you didn’t betray anyone? L I thought the truth was coming out and that it was not betrayal to tell them what they knew and Jen Kolar didn’t finger me. I confessed b/c of a guilty conscious. D Did you tell them what you thought they knew? L (emphatically) No. I told them what I knew. I thought they knew already. I was wrong. D Did you tell them what you thought they knew? L I thought they knew what happened. I told them what I knew. You’re wording it strangely. D You were in the FBI’s office, in conference. Your attorney was there and his assistant was woman. Mr. Friedman was there. L Yes D Mr. Bartlett? L Yes D Hawla? L Yes D Agent Torres?

L Yes D Anyone else? L I think that was all. D And there came a time you decided you would give info. L Sealed the deal when Lauren told me CG and SS were talking. D You and your father met Lauren in Seattle at an anarchist café? L A different name. I didn’t know it was anarchist. Lauren told me they were cooperating and we talked about the 924C use of incendiary device and if there was a way around it. D Had you discussed it previously? L Not sure. D The case in general? L Yes D She had information because she was involved as an attorney? L Involved, not sure of capacity. D You and Lauren Regan had a conversation when you asked her if BW came up. L I don’t recall. D Trolling for a way out of predicament? L No to understand parameters. D Was it explained that you had to come up with a name they didn’t already have? L No and it was not the case. D Did they ask you if you knew where JS was? L Yes, probably. D He is a fugitive, not arrested. They wanted your help. L Yes if I had info. They didn’t ask about him until I named him. D Then they asked where he is- New info? L Yes, they wanted to know where he was. D Was there a time you took a walk along River with Lauren Regan and asked if in discovery did BW's name come up? L I don’t remember asking her that. I think I probably would have been reluctant to say Briana’s name. I might have asked though. D The day you went to Feds, February 21, did they ask what happened at UW arson? L No. They asked my name, background, and some general info, and I confessed. D And you didn’t know until that day what you would do? L No D You were scared of prison? L Yes D and you made a decision to save yourself. L mmhmm. (affirmative noise) D Express remorse previously? L Yes to parents. D To Stan. L He was in jail limited communication. I saw him once. D Did you have a phone conversation? L Yes, starting on Christmas. D But everything was monitored and you didn’t want to incriminate self?

L Yes D When did you learn he cooperated? Two hours after arrest? L I strongly suspected the next day. He said something fatalistic. Then I knew when he said, “I betrayed everyone,” that he was cooperating. D Then you wrote to JH saying I didn’t betray anyone? L No, recall. D What do you mean? L No one was going to prison b/c of me, is what I would have meant. I believed and I was wrong that I didn’t give them names they already know. I fingered myself. I am not privy to what they knew. D So you knew someone had given your name. L I assumed Jen Kolar gave it. D But Stan M told you he gave it. L Yes, I knew they had my name. After Break D What did you tell the feds on the first day? Did you tell them about the UW arson? L Yes, I volunteered the information. D Did they ask about it? L I think I brought it up w/out being asked. D Did you first tell them about the five book club meetings? L I told them, not sure in which order. D Did you tell them about dropped off at Denny’s or Perkins? L Yes D You weren’t clear on which. L Yes. Now I am clear- have been back to the Denny’s. D Did you tell them Connor and Briana Waters had recently broken up? L Yes D You volunteered the information when the name Connor came up. L Don’t know. Probably described Briana Waters as his recent ex girlfriend. D Was Jen Kolar at Denny’s? L Not sure? D The arson was not planned at Dennys? L No, not while I was there. D Did you leave the table and go to the bathroom? L Don’t recall D And then went somewhere had a discussion? L No memory of it. D Day of the week? L Believe Friday or Saturday. A week prior to the arson. D You don’t recall Jen Kolar there? L Unsure, I think she may have been. I don’t remember where we went or if there was a meeting. Only being on track the next morning. D Next morning Saturday or Sunday? Which? L Not certain. D Was there a meeting after you were on track? L Yes, we met in a field and there were myself, Jen Kolar, Briana Water, Justin Solondz and Avalon.

D How did you get there? L Can’t answer. D How long did it take? L I don’t know. I remember Jen described breaking the window, I asked we not use the term ELF, and we agreed not to cooperate. D Where there other meetings? L We met at The Evergreen State College (TESC). D Did you discuss arson? L Yes D In a room? L We went into a building through a labyrinth as a computer lab. I remember it was off of a computer lab. D A locked room? L No recollection? D Were there a lot of students? L Yes there at TESC D Could they have walked in? L They could have. D Was Jen Kolar there? L Yes D Was anyone afraid of having someone walk in? L That would have been a concern. It was consistent with security culture, an unassociated room that was bug free. Briana Waters and Justin Solondz seemed familiar with the room and they were both there. D Then what? L Driving back to Eugene in Stan’s car. D How did you meet with Stan? L No recollection D Did he pick you up at TESC? L Possibly D You wound up in his car and drove to Eugene? L Yes D Anyone else? L I believe Suzanne Savoie and Daniel McGowan. D Did you talk about arson plans in the car? L No D Where did you go in Eugene? L I was living in a house with Lauren Regan. D You didn’t tell her you were planning arson, right? L I did not tell her I was planning arson. I believe she knew I was involved in underground activities and she was supportive of that. D Did you conceal form her what you were about to do? L I concealed from everyone. D Did you deceive her? L Deception is not a strong point. I had to learn how. D You did not open up to anyone about it? L No. D Kept a secret? L Yes D Who was at the Evergreen State College meeting?

L Same five people. Prosecution- Objection. Already asked why going back and forth? Defense- I was about to ask her about… Defense- On the 21st of February did you tell government “Diver” not there at TESC meeting. L I may have. D True or untrue. L Accurate to my recollection at the time. D Something refreshed your memory. L Yes. I remembered a conversation about how much fuel to use and Jen Kolar advocated less fuel. D But you told them “Diver” was not there. L I believe I may have. D So you were making it up as you went along. L That would be a gross misrepresentation. D You knew she was involved, and didn’t name her as being at TESC. L Already answered. D Was she at one meeting that weekend or more than one? L I remember her at the meeting in the field and at the TESC. D Did you tell government she was at one of the meetings? L Not sure, seems accurate. D Next weekend, with whom you drove from Eugene to Olympia? L Same four, Stan Meyerhoff, Suzanne Savoie, Daniel McGowan and myself. D Which way is Olympia? L North. D How long is the trip? L Four to five hours. D And you know where Clatskanie is? L I did, I don’t know now. D Is it south of Olympia? L Yes, in Oregon. D You say the people you drove up with, were they involved in Clatskanie? L Stan Meyerhoff, Susan Sevoie, Daniel McGowan, Nathan Block, Joyanna Zacher are the people I thought were involved and have plead guilty. D On the weekend of the arson were they with you? L Yes, either Saturday or Sunday of that weekend. I think it was Sunday. D So on Sunday you drove up. What time? L Don’t know. D Was it light or dark? L Don’t know. D Where did you go? L To Olympia. D What part? L Don’t know? Prosecution Objection has been answered. D And did there come a time when you saw SM assisting construction of incendiary devices? L No. I didn’t see him. D Did you see Conner doing so. L I didn’t witness any incendiary devices until I was taken into the clean

room. D Was SM there? L Possibly. The memory is hazy. D He was your boyfriend? L Not yet at that time. D Were you flirting with SM? L Yes. If I saw him it was walking from right across fenced opening to outbuilding. D Was it light out? L I think so. If I saw that I was not supposed to so I put it out of my mind. D The two actions were supposed to be separate. L I knew there would be another action but didn’t know it was an arson. D What is a clean room? L Free of DNA, hair, etc. D Is it based on the manual by SM and Avalon, clean rooms should be associated with person not involved in arson. L I can’t speak to the manual. D Was there discussion? L Yes maybe at Santa Cruz. D And it is supposed to be an unrelated person? This is inconsistent with the never being associated with the participant. L I don’t remember. D It was Briana’s house? Her living space was in that garage? L Not at that point, there was no bed. D The house was owned by Ocean? L I knew the house was associated with someone named Ocean. D He was not living there, you knew? L I didn’t know. Maybe waiting for the wheel chair ramp to be built? D You knew he was in a wheelchair? L I know now. D There were workers at the house building a ramp, did you see them? L I kind of have a memory of a ramp under construction but it was the weekend so there were no workers. D No one was living in the main house because of construction. L I didn’t know. The clean room was in the garage. Briana did not live in the garage at that time. D How do you know? L There was no bed. D Did you see it all? L I think so. D What was chosen as a clean room was associated with the participants, as contrary to the manual? They decided it was ok to risk DNA on the devices? Let’s say she was not living there but associated with the house. L First, I don’t think Stan had a very big role in the writing of the manual. Second, I didn’t read it. Third, we did not work in accordance with Avalon’s manual. D How about 36 hour car rule? L I never heard the rule. Break

D Did you tell them Briana and Conner were both lookouts. L No I don’t think so. D Recollection of memory. Exhibit A191 to help Lacey refresh her memory. Document A113- which is one page from A191. Highlighted portion of her notes. L- Her notes are not to be taken as her word. D- Are you saying you got it wrong? L She remembers JS driving. They pushed me to remember if he was in building or lookout. Not sure if he stayed in the car or was lookout but pretty sure not at the building. I don’t have a clear memory. D The position is that there was one lookout and it was Briana Waters. L Yes, no clear memory otherwise. D Did you have appointment to meet the rest? L I don’t know. D You met her at a restaurant. L We met at the Green Lake Bar. D Was it prearranged to meet Jen Kolar? L Not sure. No clear recollection of how I got to Seattle before afternoon or evening before the arson. D you drove up from Olympia and with you were BW, JS, and Avalon. L It’s in the report. But I don’t know how I got to Seattle. Maybe I drove with JK. D What time was the arson? L After dark maybe 11-12. D Did you come up from Olympia or Eugene? L Probably Olympia not certain. I can’t testify to that. D When did you go to Olympia? L On Sunday, May 20th with SS, SM, DM and self. D Where in Olympia did you go? The place where the clean room was? L May have been that I went to the clean room that weekend. Not sure which weekend the device was built. I don’t know when or how I saw it. D Do you think it was the weekend of the arson? Was SM in the vicinity? L If so, I didn’t know. D Did they drop you off or did they stay? L No recollection of SS or DM interacting with UW people except myself and Stan. D Did you tell authorities SM may have been involved in building devices? L May have, not sure. I generally understand SM, JS and Avalon were in charge of devices. D Did you tell the feds on 2/21/ 06 that SM and Conner were rushing to finish devices. L That’s consistent with my memory. D Is it b/c Stan had to take some devices to Oregon? L I have no knowledge of that. D Did you know at the time it was a joint action? L I didn’t know it was a joint arson. If the government wrote that it was wrong b/c I knew they were going to another crime. I had no knowledge of where. D Were you surprised by Clatskanie. L Yes.

D A week later you talked about it at Sisters, OR? L Yes. D Did you see Conner and SM put together devices in Olympia. L I never saw them. D Stan didn’t tell authorities? L I understood, not saw. It’s necessary to be particular. Evidence A115 and A192D- Does the document refresh your memory? Recall whether or not you told authorities SM and Conner were rushing to finish devices? L These are notes of my words but I don’t like how it is written. (summarized) D What would be the basis of knowledge that they were rushing to finish the devices? L Not sure. D Fair to say 4-5 hour drive to Clatskanie, OR? L Not sure. D What time of day did you observe? L I don’t know. D Once devices were finished was there gasoline in the area of the clean room. L I don’t remember. D Do you know when the gasoline was procured. L I don’t remember seeing in the clean room. D When gasoline for the devices introduced? L I believe Conner acquired the gas. D Why? L Don’t know, I can’t say. D Do you know when? L I don’t know. D Do you know from where? L I don’t know. D Did you drive in the vehicle from Olympia to Seattle? L Yes. D Did you notice the gas in the vehicle when you drove up? L I don’t recall. D How long did it take to drive to Seattle? L I don’t know. I think the drive is an hour or so. D Do you remember a lot of traffic? L My only memory is the time with Jen Kolar in the evening. D Did you talk about Briana Waters? L We may have talked about this issue, does Briana hate me b/c she thinks I slept with her boyfriend. D Did you meet BW at the restaurant? L We were at a restaurant. D She could have been in the car? L Possibly. D Was she picked up at the airport or somewhere? L Pretty sure no. D Before the restaurant did you stop somewhere? L No memory of that. D Do you remember any dumpsters anytime that night?

L I recall walking past dumpsters on the way to the site. D Do you recall anyone dropping off the gas and devices? L I recall JS placed them there earlier in the evening. D Was he with you? L No. D Where did you go in Seattle? L The bar. D Where did you go first before? L Don’t know. D Did you stop at a home to pick anything up? L It’s possible. There was a thing of dropping off of a car by an overpass. D Do you remember getting it next morning? L Not sure. D What kind of car? L I don’t know. D Whose car? L I don’t know. D Was it JK car? L I don’t know. D The five of you were at the bar? L Yes. D What time was it? L Early evening or afternoon. The bar was open and we ate dinnerish type food. D This is a meeting of five people going out to commit arson at UW. L Yes, a meet up. D And you don’t recall. L I believe Briana was there. I’m certain Briana was there. I’m very clear without a doubt. I don’t a continuous memory of sequence of events. D. If you don’t say Briana Waters was there, you will go to prison for 35 years. L I believe if I had a bad memory, they have no interest in convicting someone who wasn’t there. I believe this is being framed as a political investigation. This has not been my experience. That is what has made it easy to cooperate. D Our pleadings address certain factual issues that relate to that type of claim. There has been a ruling by the court you can’t go into certain things. Regarding your statement. L They don’t want to convict innocent people. Have you read into our pleadings about what agents have done? L (won’t answer) D Moves back to arson WR was at the window at Bradshaw’s office. Avalon was by a big window. Avalon handed her some documents. You testified there were no documents. L I don’t know. D About renting a car, did you tell the government that BW Aunt did it? L Yes. D Involvement in WTO Seattle events. Testified what you ere involved in was making sleeping arrangements- what else? L Outreach, research on company, sponsors, etc. D Involved in throwing bricks?

L No, did not break windows. D Did you spray paint? L I don’t remember D Did you know Tim Lewis? L Yes D You had collected bricks? L I don’t recall. D Do you remember running through the streets in black clothes? L Yes D Do you remember exhilaration? L Sounds like you are quoting me from Lewis’ video. I was in it reluctantly. I was careful with my words to not implicate myself. I was talking about an event in England. I tried to clarify about it with Lewis that he may cut it. It led to a falling out. D But it was in context of what you felt in Seattle. Exhilarated as you expressed in Sisters after the arson? L Yes. D Did you participate in events at Oak Ridge or Detroit Ranger Station? L Yes D Spread manure and glued locks? L Other people glued locks and spread compost. D You knew working people would clean it up. D I was a thoughtless radical. I didn’t think about it. D You did not consider consequences of people who would clean up after you. L Correct. D Avalon was involved in all kinds of levels. L Can I clarify it was a long progression from dumping manure, digging road blockades to arson. I was a radical. I admit it. D Avalon saw a development in his actions from legal in focus to obsessively clandestine. L He may have been involved in the clandestine and above ground but I didn’t know it. D There is a range of tactics in Northwest, even in Tacoma. Watch generated a lot of discussion about that type of action (organizing). L Only way Watch is in my mind is b/c it is associated with hearing about it. D Briana was at ELAW. Kim Marks sat on the same panel as you and talked about Watch and organizing the working class. L Being arrogant, I don’t remember what person I was and what other people said on the panel. D Did you know Briana Waters was involved in TESC animal rights group. Bringing speakers, bake sale. L Now I know that. D No more questions. Prosecution Exhibit 612 Some radical literature from newsletter from ELP support network. 2 copies of 1 item 2002 spring. Prosecution: Look at back corner. Contact information for whom? Lacey: Briana number for lacey and something indicated as VM for India (SS). P Is it your handwriting?

L I don’t think so. P Were you together with other people in the spring of 2002 when pamphlet is dated? I don’t think so. Prosecution- Government calls Megan Ropp. Avis Budget group, special investigations to handle insurance claims. Prosecution requested information from March 24 2006 on. There was continued contact. Searching for cars that might have been damaged. Exhibit 771. Avis rental information for a Kara Denis Larsen and proceeds with the details of the rentail car. May 19- May22. Not listed for unit # and vin #. Went through the total amount of money. Cross exam Defense- Tax documentation for additional driver. Megan Ropp- Yes. Defense- No damage or nothing unusual recorded. Megan- Correct. Until Tuesday. Defense want to submit segments of video. 15 to 18 minutes of Watch. A segment of Lacey in (Reconstruction?) and a segment of Kim Marks. US states segment about Lacey is not relevant to the case and therefore it is not admissible.

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