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JULY 17 AND 18, 1962
[No. 9]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Science and Astronautics


GEORGE P. MILLER, California, Chairman
KEN HECHLER, West Virginia
THOMAS 0. MORRIS, New Mexico
JOHN W. DAVIS, Georgia
JAMES C. CORMAN, California
JOE D. WAGGONNER, JR., Louisiana
CORINNE B. RILEY, South Carolina
JOSEPH W. MARTIN, JR., Massachusetts
JAMES 0. FULTON, Pennsylvania
PERKINS BASS, New Hampshire
THOMAS M. PELLY, Washington
CHARLES F. DUCANDER, Executive Director and Chief Cbunsd
JoiN A. CARSTARPHEN, Jr., Chief Cierk
PHiP B. YEAOER, Special Conntutan
FRANK R. HAmMiLL, Jr., Ceunuel
EARL 0. PEACOCK, Technical Cobntdtan4
RiCHARD P. HINES, Staff Conmultant
RAYMOND WIuCoVE, Staff Co#ultang
JOSEPH M. FELTON, Publcationa Cerk
VICTOR L. ANFUSO, New York, Chairman
JOSEPH1 E. KARTH, Minnesota
JAMES C. CORMAN, California
JOE D. WAGGONNER, JR., Louisiana
CORINNE B. RILEY, South Carolina
JAMES 0. FULTON, Pennsylvania
RICHARD P. HINES, Staff Cbnsudtant
NoT.-The chairman and the ranking minority member (Mr. Martin, Massachusetts) are ex officio
members of all subcommittees.

TUESDAY, JULY 17, 1962
Vashington, D.C.
The special subcommittee met at 10 a.m., Hon. Victor L. Anfuso
(chairman of the special subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. ANFUSO. This meeting will come to order.
Ladies and gentlemen, we meet this morning to consider the very
important problem of determining to the satisfaction of the committee
what are the basic qualifications required for the selection and train-
ingof astronauts.
There is no question that our manned space flight program must
make use of every available resource that can contribute to its success.
As we look into the future, we can see greater and greater demands
for special talents placed upon the people from whom future space
travelers will be drawn.
We are particularly concerned that the talents required should
not be prejudged or prequalified by the fact that these talents happen
to be possessed by men or women. Rather, we are deeply concerned
that all human resources be utilized.
I am happy to note, incidentally that, following the announcement
of these hearings NASA has just inaugurated an intern program
which includes nine promising college graduates, selected by rigorous
written and oral examination, to begin a year of intensive training
in NASA's first management intern program. Two of the nine in-
terns are women. I am also aware that women are presently active
in some aspects of NASA's launch vehicle program.
I wish to emphasize that these hearings will be directed toward
the sole objective of determining the many intricate and varied prob-
lems associated with the selection of future astronauts, based upon
the factual evidence to be given to the committee by the witnesses
this morningand those to come.
We are pleased to have with us today Miss Jerrie Cobb a noted
pilot With an outstanding career in aviation; Mrs. Philip Hart, wife
of Senator Philip A. Hart, of Michigan, and also a famed pilot, as
well as an outstanding wife and mother; and later, Miss Jacqueline
Cochran, of whom little more need be said than that she holds more
national and international distance, speed, and altitude records than
any other pilot.
We will first hear from Miss Cobb, and immediately afterward
from Mrs. Hart.

Following their testimonies, if everyone is agreeable, we will then
begin to question both Miss Cobb and Mrs. Hart.
I assume that Mrls. Hart will also answer some questions. Is that
correct, Mrs. Hart?
M[rs. HAE.T. Yes, sir,
Mr. ANvi-so. All-right, Miss Cobb, d0 you have a l)rel)ared state-
ment ?
Miss COBB. Yes, Mr. ('hairman; I do.
Mr. ANxFuso. We will hear your prepared statement, Miss Cobb.
And we are very happy to have you here. We know the great effort
you have made, together -with the other 12 women astronauts, in call-
ing the subcommittee's attention to this particular phase of the astro-
naut training program.
This committee is noncommittal, of course, but we will make sure
that all the facts will be heard and properly presented to the Congress
of the United States.
You may proceed.
Miss CoBB. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, honorable Members of Con-
gress. May I say first in behalf of myself and the 12 other women
space candidates that we thank you for the opportunity of letting us
be heard on Capitol Hill.
We appreciate the vision and interest you are showing in recogniz-
ing the need for looking into the utilization of women in theU.S.
space l)ro gram on a serious, sound basis.
Please believe that these thanks are sincere, for the courtesy of a
hearing has not beeji extended to us by any other branch of the Gov-
Our purpose in appearing before you is single and simple: We hope
that you ladies andgentlemen will, after these hearings and due con-
sideration, help implement the inclusion of qualified women in the
U.S. manned space program.
Mr. ANFUSO. Might I interrupt to say at this time that Congress-
man George P. Miller, who is the chairman of the full committee, cer-
tainly recognizes your problem, and was very glad to have these hear-
ings scheduled.
I I was honored to be selected as the chairman, and these members on
tle subcommittee are all honored to serve.
So I think we ouglit' to congratulate Chairman Miller for his vision
in bringing about this meeting.
Miss CoBB. Yes; I certainly do thank Mr. Miller and all the mem-
bers of this subcommittee for making this hearing possible.
I would like to explain that the reason you are hearing me as the
first witness before this special subcommittee is twofold:
First almost 3 years ago Dr. Randolph Lovelace II and Air Force
Brig. den. Donald Flickinger asked me to be the first woman to
undergo the Mercury astronaut tests at the Lovelace Foundation in
Albuquerque, N. Mex.
Subsequently, when my pilot and physical qualifications were
checked out, I passed the Mercury astronaut tests in Albuquerque, and
as a result it was decided to test a whole group of woman pilots.

Second, in 1960 and 1961 I passed two additional phases of testing
as a candidate for space flight, to qualify myself and to prove the
feasibility of having a group of women in a space research program.
These tests were given through the cooperation of the Veterans'
Administration and the U.S. Navy with the Lovelace Foundation.
In both cases, results of my tests gained approval for research on ad-
ditional women pilots.
Early last summer I was sworn in as a NASA consultant following
Admimstrator James Webb's announcement of my appointment.
Later last summer, after a group of 12 other women had passed
the Mercury astronaut tests, I was sort of drafted to be spokesman for
all 13 of us.
As you can tell it certainly was not because of my speaking ability.
At any rate, all this background is to tell, you why I sit here now.
If you would like, later in these hearings, we can see some pictures
from testing I have undergone to clarify the three separate phases.
Honorable Representatives of the Congress, you are used to dealing
in terms of millions and billions of dollars especially as they pertain
to space expenditures. I hope you will e pleasantly surprised to
learn that no taxpayers' money was spent to ascertain, thatat least
13 women pilots in the United States can pass the Mercury astronaut
selection tests and prove by so doing that they are worthy of con-
sideration for further training as space crewmembers.
Famed Pilot Jacqueline Cochran paid the expenses of many of the
women who underwent the tests.t the Lovelce Foundation. 'Twenty-
five women went through th(s tests, and from them 12 passed to
form the group of which we speak. All volunteered their time at
considerable personal and professional, inconvenience.
Now you may ask-who are these 12 women, always referred to
but never identified?
Why don't they get together and let themselves be heard?
The answer is easy. They don't even know each other. They
have never met as a group, and no One of the 12 women knows who
all the other 11 are.
Because the scientists involved and I have spent several years await-
ing some word from governmental circles that the women would be
included in the official astronaut training program, we asked the girls
for more than a year:to keep their identities under wraps.
By and large, they have abided by our request, and I am sure the
ladies of the subcommittee *iill agree with the gentlemen that this
is quite an achievement in a group of women which has every right
to be proud of its accomplishment in the astronaut tests.
Last spring, the wife of U.S. Senator Philip Hart of Michigan got
tired of -her self-imposed muzzle, and as you may remember, the two
of us then conferred individually with Vice President Johnson, Sen-
ator Kerr, and Representative George P. Miller of the congressional
space committees, and Chairman Anfuso.
Thanks to your House space committee, we are now given the
privilege of this hearing in the Congress.
Since no funds have been available to bring the women astronaut
candidates' group here, and as you will be hearing from Mrs. Hart
later, I would like now to enter for the record the qualifications and
brief biographical data on the 11 other women astronaut candidates
not present:

Jan Dietrich: Single; California native; age 35; 5 feet 3 inches
tall; weight 103 pounds college graduate; pilot for large company;
airline transport pilot's license--multiengine,
single-engine seaplane;
flight instructor ratings; 8,000 flying hours.
M Varion Dietrich:
Twin sister of Jan Dietrich;
single; California
native; age, height, and weight same; college graduate; writer; com-
mercial pilot's license-seaplane and flight instructor ratings; 1,500-
plus flying hours
Rea Rhea Hurile Allison: Married; Minnesota born; resident of
Texas; age 31; 5 feet 7 inches tall; weight 120; teachers college grad-
uate; executive pilot for aircraft sales and engineering firm; com-
mercial pilot's lcense-multiengine,
single-engine seaplane; flight
instructor, instrument instructor ground instructor (Link and radio
navigation) ratings' 1,500 flying hours.
Irene Leverton: Single; Illinois born; resident of California; age
35; 5 feet 8 inches tall; weight 145; executive pilot; airline transport
pilot's license-multiengineland
and seaplane; instrument instructor,
flight instructor ratings, 9,000-plus flying hours.
Bernice Steadman: Married; Michigan native; age 36; 5 feet 7
inches tall; weight 140; owner and operator, aviation service; airline
transport pilot's license-multiengine;
flight instructor, instrument
instructor, ground instructor (all subjects) ratings; 8,000-plus flying
Jean F. Hixson: Single; Illinois born' Ohio resident; age 38; 5 feet
4Y2 inches tall; weight 125; college graduate, bachelors and master's
degrees in mathematics, the physical sciences, and psychology; Air
Force Reserve captain; currently a schoolteacher; commercial pilot's
instrument and flight instructor ratings; 4,500
flying hours.
Gene Nora Stumbough: Single; Illinois born; resides in Kansas;
age 25; 5 feet 7 inches tall; weight 120; university graduate; profes-
sional pilot with large aircraft company; commercial pilot's license-
multiengine and gound instructors ratings; 1,450 flying hours.
Jerry Sloane: Dimrced; Texas native; has one child; age 31; 5 feet
3 inches tall; weight 103; 1 year college; officer and pilot of aviation
company; commercial pilot's license--multiengine;
instrument and
flight instructors ratings; 1,200-plus flying hours.
Myrtle T. Cagle: Married; 'born North Carolina; resides Georgia;
age 36; 5 feet 2 inches tall; weight 110; now making college studies;
professional pilot at an Air Force base; former airport operator;
airline transport pilot's license--multiengine; flight instructor, instru-
ment instructor, ground instructor (radio navigation) ratings; 4,300
flying hours.
Sara Lee Gorelick: Single; Kansas native; age 28; 5 feet 5 inches
tall; weight 130; university graduate with degree in mathematics,
physics, and chemistry; commercial pilot's license--glider, multi-
engine, single-engine seaplane; flight instructor, instrument instruc-
tor ratings; 1,800-plus flying hours.
Mary Wallace Funk: Single; New Mexico born; resides California;
age 23; five feet 8 inches tall; weight 125; university graduate; pro-
fessional pilot with aviation company;' commercial pilot's license-
single-engine seaplane; flight instructor ratings; 3,000 flying hours.
Each of'thesb women joins us in offering her abilities to our coun-
try's space efforts. r

As their spokesman, I would like to make some general observations.
First, let us all, among ourselves, recognize that we women pilots
who want to be part of the research and participation in space explora-
tion are not trying to join a battle of the sexes.
As pilots, we fly and share mutual respect with male pilots in the
primarily male's world of aviation. We very well know how to live
together in our profession.
We seek, only, a place in our Nation's space future without dis-
crimination. We ask as citizens of this Nation to be allowed to par-
ticipate with seriousness and sincerity in the making of history now, as
Nvomen have in the past.
There were women on the Mayflower and on the first wagon trains
west working alongside the men to forge new trails to new vistas.
We ask that opportunity in the pioneering of space.
Second, there are sound medical-scientific reasons for using women
as astronauts. Without pretending to be either doctor or research
scientist, I remind you that women weigh less and consume less food
and oxygen than men, a very important point when every pound of
humamty and the necessary life support systems is a grave obstacle
in the cost and capability factors of manned space vehicles.
Women are more radiation-resistant and less prone to heart attacks
because of the way the good Lord constructed them. Scientists say
that women are less susceptible to monotony, loneliness, heat, cold,
pain and noise than the opposite sex, vital facts to keep in mind in
our Nation's plans for space exploration of increasingly longer
Third, we have seen the reflected pride of the entire free world in the
accomplishments of U.S. Astronauts Shepard, Grissom, Glenn, and
All Americans, and certainly all pilots salute them.
Now we who aspire to be women astronauts ask for the opportunity
to bring glory to our Nation by an American woman becoming first
in all the world to make a space flight. No nation has yet sent a
human female into space.
We offer you 13 woman pilot volunteers.
Members of Congress, your special subcommittee sits here today
in search of the "practicability" of training and using women as
It is clear to us, and we hope to you, that the practicability exists
and is at hand. We welcome your questions.
Mr. CHAIRMAN, I would like to request the additional privilege
of summation time after all witnesses have appeared.'
Thank you for your attention and for the honor of appearing before
this committee.
Mr. ANvUso. Miss Cobb, that was an excellent statement. I think
that we can safely say at this time that the whole purpose of space
exploration is to some day colonize these other planets and I don't -see
how we can do that without women. [Laughter.]
Now, I think that at this time, Miss Cobb, I would like-to insert
for the record your qualifications-and your certainly have a great
array of achievements.
The biography of Miss Cobb will be inserted in the record.
See app. I.

1 9 5 9

(The document referred to follows:)
Miss Jerrie Cobb, 31-year-old professional pilot, is considered No. 1 among the
announced 13 U.S. women astronaut candidates, by virtue of having undergone
and passed 3 separate phases of astronaut testing since February 1960.
Chosen in 1959 as the first woman to undergo the Mecury Astronaut selection
tests at Lovelace Foundation, Albuquerque, N. Mex., Miss Cobb completed and
passed that battery of 75 physical tests in February 1960.
Following the announcement of her achievement in the summer of 1960 at an
International scientific meeting in Stockholm, Miss Cobb next underwent phase
II, psychopsychiatric testing, In September 1960 at a Government facility in
Oklahoma City, Okla.
The psychological and psychiatric examinations passed included a 9 hour and
40 minutes, record stay in "profound sensory isolation" in water, which tests
the subject's mental resources during deprivation of the five basic senses of
sight, hearing, taste, feeling and smell while in a simulated weightless en-
In April 1961 Miss Cobb underwent a 2-week-series of stress tests at the U.S.
Navy School of Aviation Medicine, Pensacola, Fla., in a third phase of checking
out her mental and psysical capabilities for space flight.
In May of 1961 NASA Administrator James Webb named Miss Cobb a NASA
consultant, and she was sworn in the following month in Washington.
Miss Cobb and the 12-woman group who subsequently passed the Lovelace
tests last year, have kept in close touch in the effort to bring "lady astronauts"
to inclusion in U.S. space efforts.
Assistant to vice president (marketing) for Aero Commander, Inc., Oklahoma
manufacturers of twin-engine executive aircraft, Miss Cobb has set four world
aviation records and holds a number of honors in her field.
Miss Cobb, who started flying at the age of 12, has more than 10,000 hours
logged, in all types of aircraft. A former international ferry pilot, her ratings
include: Commercial license with multiengine, flight instructor, and DC-3 (C-
47) captain ratings. Also ground instructor in navigation, meteorology, civil
air regulations, aircraft and engines. She has worked as a test pilot and has
flown 64 different types of aircraft, including a Jet fighter and 4-engine turboprop
Mr. ANFUSO. I will call on Mrs. Hart. You can sit right there,
Miss Cobb.
Mrs. Hart, it is a real pleasure to welcome you here.
Besides being the wie of a very distinguished Senator, you are also
the mother of eight children-four boys and four girls-is that.
Mrs. HART. Yes sir, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. ANFUSO. You can certainly stand on your own rights; can't
Mrs. HART. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFUSO. You have a prepared statement?
Mrs. HART. I do.
Mr. ANFUSO. We shall be glad to hear it.
Mrs. HART. It will be somewhat redundant in certain aspects now.
I would like to say, I couldn't help but notice that you call upon me
immediately after you referred to colonizing space.
Mr. ANFUSO. That is why I did it. [Laughter.]
Mrs. HART. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you
very much for letting me appear here today.

8 8 2 9 5 - 6 2 - - - - - 2
The subject at hand is certainly one of ray favorite ones. It will
perhaps come as no surprise to you that I strongly believe women
should have a role in space research. In fact, it ]s inconceivable to
me that the world of outer space should be restricted to men only, like
some sort of stag club.
I am not arguing that women be admitted to space merely so that
they won't feel discriminated against. I am arguing that they be
admitted because they have a very real contribution to make..
Now, no woman can get up and seriously discuss a subject. like this
without being painfully aware that her talk is going to inspire a lot
of condescending little smiles and mildly humorous winks.
But happily or the Nation, there have always been men, men like
the members of this committee, who have helped women succeed in
roles that they were previously thought incapable of handling.
A hundred years ago, it was quite inconceivable that women should
serve as hospital attendants. Their essentially frail and emotional
structure, it was argued, could never stand the horrors of a military
dressing station.
Most of them would faint at the first bloody bandage. They
wouldn't be able to keep the records straight. And anyway, it was
somehow indecent for a woman to be among all those soldiers, wounded
or not.
WIell, the rest of the story is altogether familiar to you. The women
were insistent. There was a shortage of men to do the job. And
finally it was agreed to allow some women to try it provided they were
middle aged and ugly-ugly women presumably having more strength
of character.
I submit, Mr. Chairman, that a woman in space today is no more
preposterous than a woman in a field hospital 100 years ago. And I
futher submit that the venture would be equally successful, although
this time there should be a more realistic list of qualifications for the
candidates to meet.
I wonder if anyone has ever reflected on the great waste of talent
resulting from the belated recognition of women's ability to heal.
Before 1862, there must have been thousands of women with innate
nursing ability who might have helped save countless lives if only they
had been allowed to. But in this scientific field, no one recognized
what women could do because they were never permitted to try.
It seems to me a basic error in American thought that the only time
women are allowed to make a full contribution to a better nation is
when there is a manpower shortage.
Consequently, women are discouraged from developing their talent
and education fully because it seems they will have so little occasion to
use them.
I correspond regularly with several college coeds who are in the
top 10 percehit of their class. They are science students and is there
anyone here today who will argue that our Nation doesn't need scien-
tists in practically unlimited numbers?
Yet many times I sense a tone of discouragement in their letters.
They see so many obstacles to the realization of their hopes of a scien-
tific career.
It is a known fact, for example, that in spite of population growth
and acute need, there are fewer engineering students gTaduating now

than 10 years ago. So why must we handicap ourselves with the idea
that every woman's place is in the kitchen despite what her talents
and capabilities might be?
Now, I, like most women, have been blessed with a very happy mar-
riage. I have eight children, four boys and four girls, a demonstra-
tion, I think, of the impartiality that I believe should be accorded the
But equality in numbers is not enough. I should hope that they will
also have equality of opportunity to use their minds and talents where
they will make the greatest contribution.
If the girls elect to be homemakers, excellent-provided the choice
is not dictated by discrimination in all other careers.
I strongly suspect that not a few women are herded into the career
of marriage--a career that fails because it is one for which they
happen to have little talent.
And I think that our society should cease to frown on the woman who
seeks to combine family life with a career. Time and again, it has
been proven that this can be successfully done.
Our affluent society, after all, has provided so many household aids
that the intelligent, energetic housewife can find many hours to devote
to other useful purposes.
Let's face it :For many women the PTA just is not enough.
Up to now, you notice that I have avoided the technical and psy-
chological questions of women in space. There are those here who are
far more capable of testifying on hat subject. But I do want to rec-
ommend that this subcommittee do everything in its power to insure
a space role for women.
One concrete suggestion: I hope the subcommittee does everything
in its power to continue research begun a year ago at the Lovelace
Foundation in New Mexico.
Based on the belief that women do have a role in space, at least in
the future, the Lovelace Clinic gave 24 young women tests similar to
those given the 7 astronauts. It was the Lovelace Clinic, incidentally,
that had previously set many of the standards for the men astronauts.
In the first step of this research program, 12 of the women were
found to be qualified for space travel.
The second step of the program required the use of special Govern-
ment-ow.ned testing equipment, centrifuges and pressure chambers.
Somehow, the program was canceled.
, Now, I think women should be allowed to go into space without de-
lay. But even the extreme view that women will have no place in
outer space for many years does not justify the cancellation of a re-
search program that had already begun and that would doubtlessly
supply information useful right now as well as in the future.
Actually, the reinstatement of this research program will have a dual
purpose. First, it will furnish valuable data. Secondly, it will en-
courage more talented young women to enter the specialized fields
relating to space engineering.
I think it would open to the Nation a great new reservoir of ability
and enthusiasm. I think this reservoir should be opened while space
science is in its infancy.
Now I hope you understand that I am not trying to get all women
out of the kitchen. I don't want to be the Susan B. Anthony of the

space age. The number of women who would be qualified for-and
interested in-space travel would be limited.
Above all, I don't want to downgrade the feminine role of wife,
mother, and homemaker. It is a tremendously fulfilling role. But
I don't think, either, that it is unwomanly to be intelligent, to be
courageous, to be energetic, to be anxious to contribute to human
I just think we would be making a serious mistake if we assumed
that women just have no contribution to make to space exploration.
I think we would be making a serious mistake if we were not will-
ing to at least research the possibility that they could make a con-
Thank you.
(The biography of Mrs. Hart follows:)
Mrs. Jane B. Hart, the wife of U.S. Senator Philip A. Hart, was born in
Detroit October 20, 1921, the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Walter 0. Briggs. She
attended the academies of the Sacred Heart in Detroit, Grosse Pointe, and Tor-
resdale, Pa., and Manhattanville College in New York City.
She was married June 19, 1943, to Mr. Hart who then was a captain In the
U.S. Army. They met when he was her brother's roommate at Georgetown
University. The Harts resided in Birmingham (Oakland County) until 1955
when Mr. Hart became Michigan's Lieutenant Governor and the family moved
to Lansing. They have eight children: Ann, 14; Jane Cameron, 13; Walter, 11;
James, 10; Michael, 9; Clyde, 7; Mary Catherine, 5; and Laura Elizabeth, 4.
In addition to her duties as mother and homemaker, Mrs. Hart has been
active in civic affairs and has shared her husband's interest in government 'and
political activities. She is a trustee of the Michigan 4-H Foundation, a member
of the board of the Sister Elizabeth Kenny Foundation, and also served as
board member and national convention delegate for the Birmingham League of
Women Voters. She was charter vice president of the Guild of the Pontiac
Urban League and now Is a member of the Nancy Williams Club, the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Lansing World
Affairs Council.
In the field of politics, Mrs. Hart has served as vice chairman of the Oakland
County Democratic Committee.
Mrs. Hart has long been interested in aviation and has been a licensed pilot
for 19 years. She owns and files a twin-engine six-passenger Aero-Commander
500-A. She is the first licensed woman helicopter flyer in Michigan. Mrs. Hart
is a captain in the Civil Air Patrol. She formerly was commanding officer of
Squadron 4 in Group 7. She is a member of the Flying Farmers of Michigan
and in 1958-59 chairman of the annual Michigan "Small Race" sponsored by
the 99's, an International organization of licensed women pilots organized by
Amelia Earhart. Mrs. Hart has participated as a pilot In two national cross-
country "Powder Puff Derby" flights, and is now serving as a member of the
board of directors of the All Women's Transcontinental Air Race.
M r. ANFUSO. Thank you very.much for a very interesting statement,
Mrs. Hart.
May I ask you, Mrs. Hart, whether your flying activity has en-
couraged other people, both male and female to take up fiyingl
Mrs. HAIRT. Yes sir. I could give you some very specific instanes
of when I have taken people up who would not even set foot in an
airliner and who subsequently have taken up flying as either a hobby
or a career, and have purchased aircraft, and certainly -have therefore
stimulated the industry a little bit.
Mr. ANFuSo. Would you also say that if you had the opportunity
to participate in the manned space flight program, your experience

would encourage other women to take up science and engineering
courses, particularly those applicable to space travel?
Mrs. HART. I would answer in the affirmative again, Mr. Chair-
man, and this would be based on the mail which I have received, and
which I mentioned in my statement. It includes coeds, both at high
school level and college level, who have writtelm, and many of them in
great numbers, encouraging that we continue to pursue this subject
and they would continue to pursue their studies in hope they could
use it in their career.
Mr. Aziuso. Would you go so far, Mrs. Hart, that anything man
can do, woman can do betterI
Mrs. HART. No, sir, I would not.
Mr. ANFUSO. Miss Cobb, I understand that you have some pictures
you would like to show.
Would you rather show these pictures before we ask you some
Miss COBB. I have some pictures to show of the testing if the
committee has time.
It will take about 15 minutes. I can describe some of the tests
if the committee would be interested in knowing what tests we have
been through.
Mr. ANFrso. These are tests which women have taken.
Miss COBB. Yes.
Mr. RIEIILMAN. Would that apply to all the 13 women that have
qualifled? Have. they had the same tests that you portray in these
Miss COBB. These pictures portray the three different phases of
astronaut tests. All of the 12 women have passed the first phase
which were tests primarily designed for the mercury astronauts and
administered by the same doctors at the Lovelace Foundation. The
second phase was psychological, psychiatric, and isolation studies
which were made on two of the women astronaut candidates besides
myself. I was the only woman to pass the third phase administered
by the U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine before the tests were
We hope it will be possible to have the other women in this group
undergo the other two phases in the immediate future.
Mr. ANFuSO. Without objection we will see the pictures and then
ask ou some questions.
Miss COBB. Would you like me to explain some of the tests before
we see the pictures?
Mr. ANFUSO. Whichever is preferable to you. Would it. make it
easier for us to understand the pictures I
Miss COBB. It probably would.
The astronaut examination at the Lovelace Foundation consisted
of a series of tests covering everything from having to swallow 3 feet
of rubber hose to riding abicycle to the human exhaustion point.
Other tests required that one drink a pint of radioactive water,
12 ounces of chalklike barium, and 3 ounces of caster oil-not at the
same time I might add.
Since the Lovelace tests have become quite familiar to you all
because the Mercury astronauts were selected thereby, I will not
prolong discussion of them.

The sensory deprivation experiment is another phase of astronaut
testing which I was privileged to undergo. After 2 days of com-
plete psychological and psychiatric testing, the subject is submerged
in an 8-foot-deep tank of warm water.
The tank, lightly referred to by researchers as "the dog dip," is
located in a small airtight room with 8-inch steel walls which makes
it soundproof, lightproof, odorproof, humidityproof, and vibration-
While undergoing this experiment, the subject's five basic senses
are removed as nearly totally as possible, since there is nothing to see,
hear, touch, taste, or smell. Being submerged in water at body
temperature simulates a weightless state. The situation is as much
like being totally deaf, blind, and with no sense of touch, taste, or
imell as is possible to simulate.
Under the conditions of this sensory deprivation the usual reaction
is for the subconscious mind to take over and-uncontrollable hallucina-
tions begin.
An astronaut alone in the weightlessness of space, with little or no
stimulation to keep his senses alert, must. have the ability to remain
in touch with reality without, lapsing into hallucinations.
I spent 9 hours and 40 minutes in the tank and did not hallucinate,
I am happy to report, but I did sneak a couple of naps. The Mercury
astronauts isolation tests consisted of 3 hours in an air-filled room.
During Navy testing at Pensacola, I went through everything from
working in the rotating room atop the centrifuge (experiencing arti-
ficial gravity) to being "crashlanded" in the Dilbert Dunker to teach
water impact survival. Among other stress tests were explosive
and an "airborne electroencephalogram."
The airborne EEG, as it is called, is a recording on instruments and
camera while the subject flies through a high gravity load-stress
aerobatic pattern with 18 needles stuck in the head, which record brain
waves under unusual stresses.
When Navy Pensacola wired for permission to Washington for me
to fly in a Navy aircraft for that test, reporting that it wished to
ascertain the difference between men and women astronauts, back
came this humorous reply from the Pentagon:
If you don't know the difference already, we refuse to put money into the
By the way, permission was granted.
(Pictures.) So with that we will go ahead with the slides and I
will briefly describe these as we go through them.
(Slide.) This is the recording chamber for the isolation test, where
they keep continual tape recordings going, listening to every sound,
even the breathing sound, so they can tell whether you are awake or
asleep. The doctors in attendance record everything during the run
while you are in this enclosed room submerged in the water.
(Slide.) This is when I got out of the tank during the debriefing
temperature and blood pressure and everything.
QGo on to the next, one.
(Slide.) This shows what the tank is like. The water is perfectly
controlled to temperature of the human body so that you don't even
feel the water.

Actually you feel nothing and float in this tank in total darkness
where you cannot hear, see, touch, or smell anything.
Mr. ANFUSO. You have described the tests fairly well, Miss Cobb.
Lights on, please.
Miss Cobb, what do you think are the minimum qualifications for an
Miss COBB. I could not answer the minimum qualifications for an
astronaut because I am not qualified. There is still so little known of
the stresses of space flight.
Of course, this would be a matter of research, determining the job
to be done, and the abilities necessary to do it, under extreme stresses.
The qualifications that the authorities of NASA have set down,
have made it impossible for women to qu |ify as astronauts or even
demonstrate their capabilities for space light, as I am sure you know.
Mr. AN.Fuso. Is it because one of the requirements is that the astro-
nauts be also engineers?
Miss COBB. No. I don't think that is it at ali. There are many
women engineers.
It is the jet test pilot experience that makes it impossible for a wom-
an to meet the qualifications.
Mr. ANFUSO. Are any of your women pilots engineers?
Miss COBB. Over half of them are college graduates. Their degrees
are in varied applicable subjects from psychology to mathematics,
physical sciences, chemistry, and physics.
Mr. ANFuSO. Are any of your women test pilots?
Miss COBB. Some of us have worked as test pilots but it is impos-
sible for a woman in this country to be a jet test pilot because there
are no women pilots in the military services and the test pilots
schools are operated solely by the military services.
There are no other test pilot schools except those of the Navy and
the Air Force, and since here are no woman pilots in the services they
do not have the opportunity to go to these schools to learn to be a jet
test pilot or to fly in the latest supersonic jet fighter equipment, either
since they all belong to the military, and civilians are not allowed to
fly them.
Mr. ANFuso. In other words, one of the requirements laid down is
that astronauts be test pilots; is that correct?
Miss COBB. That is the requirement that NASA has laid down,
which automatically eliminates all women because jet pilot experience
is not available to them in this country.
Mr. Ai'uso. You feel as though you can't qualify because only the
services give these test pilot tests; is that correct ?
Miss COBB. I feel we cannot meet the jet test pilot qualifications
because of the reasons I explained. It is an impossibility in this
country for women to become jet test pilots. There are foreign coun-
tries that use women in their military as jet test pilots, but not the
United States.
Mr. ANPuso. Foreign countries?
Miss COBB. Yes.
Mr. ANFUSO. Which foreign countries?
Miss COBB. Many foreign countries, I have a very good friend in
France who has been a jet test pilot for the French Air Force for many
years. Women pilots are not used in military services of our country,

so it is impossible for them to get the jet experienceor to qualify for
entrance in the test pilots school, because these are run solely by the
military. By the same token, most civilian test T)ilots for airplane
manufacturers are former graduates of the military test pilot schools.
So actually we can't get civilian jobs as jet test pilots, either since these
jobs require past experience in jet testing, experience not available to
Mr. AwFuso. To your knowledge do you think the U.S.S.R. has
women test pilots?
Miss COBB. Yes. It is a known fact that they have women pilots
in their armed services, doing the various jobs required. This in-
cludes jet test flying. In this country women have little chance to
qualify in jet aircraft, let alone becoming jet test pilots.
Mr. KARTH. Do you feel it is essential to have been a test pilot be-
fore you could qualify as an astronaut?
Miss COBB. r personally do not feel it is essential at all. It is a
means to an end, but it is certainly not the end itself. An astronaut
must pilot a spacecraft-not test jet fighters.
If you total the flying hours of this group of women pilots you
will find the women averaged 4,500 hours each, which is much more
than the men astronauts have. Some of the women in this group have
over three times the amount of flying hours that the male astronauts
Mr. KARTn. There is a considerable difference between straight fly-
ing-commercial or private-and test piloting; isn't there?
Miss COBB. Pardon?
Mr. KARTH. There is a considerable difference between that and test
Miss COBB. I suggest there is an "equivalent experience" in flying
that may be even more important in piloting a spacecraft. Pilots with
thousands of hours flying time would not have lived so long without
coping with emergencies calling for microsecond reactions.
What counts is flawless judgment, fast reaction, and the ability to
transmit that to the proper control of the craft. We would not have
flown all these years, accumulating thousands and thousands of hours
in all types of aircraft without accumulating this experience. This
experience is the same as acquired in jet test piloting. I think you
might acquire it faster as a jet test pilot but it is by no means the only
wa-y to acquire it. Some have 8,000 to 10,000 hours-have flown a
million miles in all types of airplanes--this is the hard way to acquire
that experience, but, it is the same experience.
Women have other abilities to offer besides professional flying
experience. You may remember the Martin Co. in Baltimore simu-
lated space flights for more than a year as a NASA project and found
women had the edge on operating controls for space rendezvous.
E. E. Clark reported women usually came along on the first and
second try, executing the maneuver more quickly and efficiently than
the male test pilots. We women who want to be astronauts oifer our
flying experience, we offer thousands of flying hours over millions of
miles and literally dozens of years, and experience in all types of air-
craft, in lieu of the few hours of jet test pilot experience required by
Mr. KARTH. How many hours are required as a minimum to qualify?

Miss COBB. The Mercury astronauts had to have 1,500 hours of jet
time. We have girls with upward of 10,000 flying hours.
Mr. KARTH. How many test pilot hours do they require to qualify
as a test pilot?
Miss COBB. It is not dependent on flying hours but upon flying
frAwFUso. May I interrupt to welcome Miss Jacqueline Cochran
who has just arrived? We will proceed with her testimony after
Miss Cobb and Mrs. Hart.
Miss COBB. I do not know, Congresman Karth, the exact number
of jet test flying hours required tolbe an astronaut. NASA does re-
quire 1,500 hours of total jet time. Most all of the Mercury astronauts
were graduates of either the Navy or Air Force Test Pilot Schools, as
you know.
Each of them spent some months, perhaps as. much as a year,
as a jet test pilot. They were military pilots and jet test flying was
not primarily their job in the Armed Forces either.
Mr. ICAKm. Thank you very much.
Mr. ANvuso. Mr. Fulton.
Mr. FULTON. What is the women's record of safety in the operating
of jets and supersonic
as compared
to the men's?
Miss COBB. What is the safety record?
Mr. FULTON. Yes. Are the women just at competent or are they
better than the men?
Miss COBB. Since it is practically impossible for a woman to fly a jet
in this country-to my knowledge I only knew of one woman who
has checked out in jet aircraft, and that is Miss Cochran, whom you
will hear from-perhaps she will answer that-since there are no
other women pilots who checked out in jets, there can't be any safety
figures available.
Mr. FULTON. Given the same planes that are generally available and
the same number of hours, how does the safety record of women pilots
compare with that of the men?
Miss COBB. I don't know of any studies ever made on this, but I
don't think safety is a thing between male and female. It depends
on the piloting ability, how safe a pilot you are, not whether you are
a man or woman.
Mr. FULTON. I am trying to support you.
Women are competent to operate aircraft and as far as you know
there is no greater incidence of accidents among women than men, is
Miss COBB. That is right.
Mr. FULTON. I am trying to get you to say it.
Miss COBB. I don't have anything to back it up with.
Mr. ANFUSO. Mrs. Hart.
Mrs. HART. I want to give one piece of evidence that might have
some weight here. For 17 years now there has been a transcontinental
air race piloted solely by women, with as many as 101 aircraft in it,
and regularly it has about 50, and there has been not one single fatality.
It has been going on for 17 years. I question that that many auto-
mobiles could drive across the country that successfully.
.Ir. FULTON,. Women have a very excellent record even in airplane
racing in this country, don't they?

Mrs. HART. Yes, sir.
M r. FULTON. Secondly-I believe my statistics are correct-they
have a better safety record in driving automobilesI
Mrs. HART. The National Safety Council has figures to bear that
out, yes, sir.
Mr. FULTON. So then, the problem is not whether you are equal to
men. To me it would be how superior are women over men. I am
serious about it.
Mrs. HART. This I would not agree to.
Miss COBB. This I would not agree with either.
Mr. FULTON. I realize you are not here to justify equality. How-
ever, considering the competitive opportunities you had with men in
this country, might it not be the case, that if given the opportunity
to men
in the space
Mrs. HART. Perhaps in some areas.
Mr. FU ToN. I am a bachelor, so I can say that.
Mrs. HART. I don't think you can say one is superior to the other.
Mr. FULTON. But you believe you as women are competent, such as
with automobiles and in planes as far as you can go. That compe-
tence, if projected, should make you at least competent in space,
wouldn't it?
Miss COBB. I would think so.
Mr. Amwuso. Miss Cobb and Mrs. Hart, tomorrow we will place in
the record the standard set for astronauts. Two of the main provi-
sions, as I understand them, are that they must be test pilots, and also
engineers. Now, do I gather from your testimony, Miss Cobb, that
you don't believe that an astronaut need be a test pilot?
Miss COBB. Yes, sir; you are entirely correct.
Mr. ANFUSO. Do you agree with that, Mrs. Hart?
Mrs. HART. Yes, sir; I do, sir.
Mr. Awmuso. Do you also believe that an astronaut need not be an
engineer, Miss Cobb?
Miss Cowa. I am inclined to agree with that. I believe that the
job to be done is to fly the spacecraft in the air and this is the job of a
Do you take a pilot to begin with or do you take an engineer and
train him to be a pilot so that he can fly the spacecraft. I don't think
you do that any more than you take a pilot and make him primarily an
The primary job is to fly a craft in space.
This is the job of a pilot, not an engineer.
Mr. ANFUSO. Is that your view too, Mrs. Hart?
Mrs. HART. Yes, sir.
Mr. Am-uso. Would you say that is the view of the other 11 women
Miss COBB. I feel free in representing their views as such;
Mr. Amuso. Mrs. Hart, do you believe that the United States
should be the first nation to launch a woman astronaut?
Mrs. HART. Well, I can give a rather philosophical answer to that,
Mr. Chairman.
I woud like to see the United States be the first to achieve anything
in the space field, and that includes having a woman go out first,

Mr. Ax-'uso. If that could be accomplished, you would be in favor
of it?
Mrs. HART. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFPso. Do you believe that the recognized hazards in such
a feat, and the potential worldwide repercussions to our prestige
in the event of a tragic accident, are worth the risk and expense for
us to achieve that objectiveI
Mrs. HART. I would not want to take a position on that, sir. I
don't know what the cost would be. I am not well enough acquainted
with all the hazards to be able to weigh that and make a judgment.
This is something that I think the technicians and authorities would
have to decide.
Mr. ANFuso. Miss Cobb, do you wish to take a position on that?
Miss COBB. On whether the adverse publicity of putting a woman-
would you rephrase the question ?
Mr. ANFuso. Do you. believe that the recognized hazards in such
a feat and the possible worldwide repercussions to our prestige are
worth the risk and expense for us to achieve that objective of trying
toput the first woman in space?
Miss CoBB. I very definitely do-very strongly do.
Mr. ANFUSo. Mrs. Hart, what are the medical and scientific reasons
for using women as astronauts I
Mrs. HART. I have been told that women, because they weigh less
and consume less oxygen, are therefore good candidates for outer
space, and also that they are emotionally equal to crises, and therefore
are quite capable of handling any crises that they might meet out
But you cannot base a judgment on all women. These would be
people who have to meet these standards just as the men.
Mr. ANFUSO. What about the question of fatigue? We know Mr.
Carpenter experienced some fatigue during his flight around the
Mrs. HART. Well, he experienced fatigue because he was doing a
great deal in addition to what Mr. Glenn did, and it is quite under-
standable that he should.
Fatigue I think is not something that is restricted to the male or
the female. It is whatever you are equal to. It would be again on
an individual basis.
Mr. ANFUSO. One final question of you, Mrs. Hart:
Do you believe that women pilots have been denied the oppor-
tunity to participate in our national space program solely on the basis
that they are women ?
Mrs. 11ART. I suppose there is a little of this in the picture. It is
luite normal in American thought when you look in the aviation field.
Miss Cobb mentioned various ratings. I would like to perhaps clarify
You notice she said air transport rating. She mentioned this in
connection with several of the girls. This means they have passed all
of the tests that any captain of any airline has passed.
I have yet to step on an airliner and find a lady pilot-even on the
right-hand side, let alone the left-hand side. To me it is a psychologi-
cal thing we must overcome in many fields.
It is i the medical field. To the extent this still exists in American
thought this certainly has resulted in some discrimination.

Mr. AwTuso. Do you care to venture an opinion, Miss Cobb?
Miss COBB. It is because they have set up these requirements-
which NASA are as much aware of as we are--that women do not
have any opportunity to meet.
Mr. ANFuSO. I have no further questions.
Mr. Fulton.
Mr. FULTON. Your complaint really would not be primarily against
the National Aeronautics and Space Agency then. It would rather
be directed toward the practices of the military services where women
have not been able to qualify and participate fully up to their capabili-
ties in the piloting and testing the present generation fast jet air-
craft and supersonic planes; is that not correctly
Miss COBB. I do not have any complaint against the military serv-
ices; I recognize there is no need for women in active combat in the
services these days. Now, in the war women did fly in the service, and
Miss Cochran will tell you about that, since she lea the WASP group.
Mr. FULTON. My point is, you are being kept out at the military
service level. NASA requires jet engineering test pilots. You can-
not qualify because you have not had that experience.
Miss COBB. That is the reason we cannot meet the qualifications
which NASA has set down. My point is I do not believe this ex-
perience is necessary to be an astronaut, and if it is, it could be proved
easily enough by letting some pilots without the jet test pilot experience
go through the simulators and see how well they do-compare the
Mr. FuLroN. Is it necessary to have test pilot experience to be an
astronaut I I believe the answer is "No."
Mr. RIE .LMAN. Miss Cobb, outside of your not having qualifica-
tions as a jet pilot and an engineer, have you passed all of the other
physical and other tests that are required for an astronaut?
Miss COBB. I have passed the tests required for an astronaut, but
I would like to correct you. I am not an engineer and I am not a jet
test pilot.
Mr. RIMILMAN. I understand that.
I wanted to make sure, for the record, that you had passed all of
the other tests that would qualify you as an astronaut.
Miss COBB. I have passed physical, laboratory, X-ray, physical com-
petence, psychological, psychiatric, isolation, and Navy tests, but not
the training. It was not available for us to go through the space
flight simulators.
They have not approved women to go through these simulators to
demonst rate their capabilities for space flight. I find it a little ridicu-
lous when I read in a newspaper that there is a place called Chimp
CQlJege in New Mexico where they are training50 chimpanzees for
space flight, one a female named Glenda. I think it would be at
least as important to let the women undergo this training for space
S Ir. RIpHLMAN. You are willing to undergo this test?
Miss COBB. Even if I have to substitute for a female chimpanzee.
Mrs. WEIs. When you say "they" won't allow you to take these tests
who are "they" ?
Miss COBB. The people who are doing the tests. Some of it is under
the auspices of NASA, some under the auspices of the Air Force, and

the Navy. I had the privilege of going through the Navy test and had
arranged for the group to go through and that was canceled.
Two years ago we were going to go through the stress testing at
WADC at Dayton and the Air Force canceled those tests.
Mrs. WEIS. Supposing they eliminated the specification for engi-
neers and test pilots, the other 12 women you say are qualified would
still have to take more tests?
Miss COBB. Yes.
Mrs. WEIS. You are the only one who has taken the three sections?
Miss COBB. I have had the privilege of being able to go through these
tests but was not able to get approval for the group to go through.
Mrs. WEIS. So they can be considered ?
Miss COBB. They would still have to take the test.
Mrs. WEIS. They would have to allow them to do it ?
Miss COBB. That is right. I don't think the qualifications of an
engineering degree and jet test pilot experience should just be knocked
out, but that NASA should realize there is an equivalent experience
which we can offer because we have worked real hard for many years
in a man's field of aviation, gaining experience and demonstrating
our professional flying skill.
Mr. ANFUSO. Now, we should hear from this side.
Mr. Roush.
Mr. ROUSH. Miss Cobb, I couldn't help but overhear a conversation
between you and Mr. Anfuso prior to the hearing and during the
course of that conversation you said-
Mr. ANFUSO. I hope you can state this for the record.
Mr. RousH. Yes, I can. You said, "I am scared to death." How
do you reconcile this emotional statement with the fact that an astro-
naut must be fearless and courageous and emotionally stable?
Miss COBB. Going up into space couldn't be near as frightening as
sitting here. [Laughter.]
Mr. RousH. No further questions.
Mr. HECHLER. I notice, Mrs. Hart, you used the phrase "Somehow
the pro gran was canceled."
Could you explain this a little bit. What were you informed about
the proram?
Mrs. HART. As to why it was canceled?
Mr. HECuLER. Yes.
Mrs. HART. I have no idea, sir. That is one of the mysteries of
the past ear.
Mr. HECHLER. The phrase you use is a rather mysterious one.
Mrs. HA'RT. That is the only way I could express it. I was just that
mystified. We were to go to Pensacola. With me there is some orga-
nizational problem of logistics, that I have to arrange with the chil-
dren, and so forth. I think it was 2 days before we were to arrive
when we were notified it had been canceled. It was to be a 2-week
testing period.
Mr. ANFuso. We will get the answer to that question tomorrow
from NASA.
Mr. HECHLFR. Do you or Miss Cobb have any suggestion about the
way in which this research program could be continued within the
'confines of what you believe the reaction of "they" is? Can you get
"half your cake" and go on with part of your program?

Mrs. HART. You are asking if we have any suggestion as to how
this could go on?
Mrs. HART. I don't know why we couldn't continue, put the rest
of the 12 through the other 23 phases, which they had not done.
Either the Air Force or the Navy, whoever has the equipment to
do it, could assume the responsibility of doing this. They do it for
the male astronauts. Whether they do it under contract to NASA I
do not know.
But if NASA would give approval perhaps that is all that is
And th en we could continue the testing and the knowledge would
be acquired which would be used for whenever-now or in the future.
Mr. HEOCILER. Miss Cobb, do you want to add anything?
Miss COBB. In answer to the .question on why the tests at Pensacola
were canceled, perhaps I can give part of a reason for it.
I went down there and took these tests, which took 2 weeks, all the
arrangements were made with the School of Aviation Medicine, there
and through the Lovelace Foundation, Dr. Lovelace was working
closely with the group at Pensacola.
I was to be the first woman subject to go through these tests, so
they could see how many changes they would have to make to test
They had never had a group of women there. That is the reason I
went through the tests first. I passed and the arrangements were all
set for about 2 months later for the group of 12 women to come down
for the tests. Miss Cochran offered to pay their expenses, the girls
arranged with their employers to take off from work, and 2 days be-
fore the tests were to start I got word that they had been canceled.
I immediately notified all the girls. Two of them had already quit
their jobs to participate in these tests. It is hard for a woman pilot
to find a job in the man's field of aviation. They had quit good jobs
to take part in the tests. This is how serious they all are about space
testing. About 2 days before the tests were to begin they were can-
celed. I wanted to find out why.
I came to Washington and talked with NASA and Navy people
here. I first contacted Pensacola and they said, "We are set, still
want to do the tests, we have got everything all set up down there."
They said, "We got word from the Pontagon that the tests for the
girls would have to be canceled." I talked to people with the Navy
Department. It all got thrown back on NASA. -I went to NASA,
and all the way up and down-it took me 2 days-I finally found out
that NASA would not say to the Navy, "We do not have a require-
ment for this."
The Navy tests were canceled for the lack of a piece of paper from
NASA. It was not for funds. The Navy wanted to do the testing.
Mr. AwFuso. Will you permit me to say this to you, Miss Cobb and
Mrs. Hart, that this committee has the assurances that NASA wishes
to cooperate and is cooperating. I indicated in my earlier statement
that these hearings are indeedhelpful. And I know that you don't
criticize any branch of the Government. You just want answers.
Miss COBB. I .certainly do not want to criticize. I would like very
much to work with NASA.

Mr. ANFUSO. These answers will be forthcominhg during these
Mr. HECHLER. I want to commend you and your associate on your
initiative and courage. 1 think all you are asking is just to keep step
in the march of history.
Miss COB. Thank you very much, Congressman.
Mr. CORMAN. I would certainly join in these remarks. Could you
tell me where Irene Leverton is at the moment?
Miss CoBB. Yes. 1 have an address in Los Angeles. I believe it is
Santa Monica.
Mr. ANFuso. Is she one of your constituents?
Mr. CORMAN. Yes. I thought she might be back here for these
hearings and I wanted to meet her.
Miss CoBB. I wisl she could have been
Mr. CoRMair. The question was asked whether women aro more
COml)etent than men:
I would say that was asked by a bachelor. Those of us who are
married know the answer is in the affirmative.
Mr. FULTON. Did it strike the women that the reason the tests were
canceled was because the men thought the women were too successful?
Mr. WAGUONNER. Miss Cobb, you showed a little bit of resentment
toward Glenda out in this test center. You do not feel any resentment
about the female monkeys in the cancer clinic do youI daughterr.]
Miss Conn. No. I think there is a place for both.
Mr. WAUGONNER. Seriously, NASA has said to us on occasion that
they had the requirement for the astronauts to be jet, test pilots as
well as engineers for a specific reason. That reason was that they felt
it was not, as you said, just important that the astronauts be able to
pilot the spacecraft but, more important than that, to be able to bring
back certain scientific information. I realize there are comp)arable
degrees of being able to do this, as you have mentioned, but would
either you or Mrs. Hart care to comment oil this requirement in
light of that statement, that to bring back the information NASA
feels at this point of the experiment in space is probably even more im-
portant in their eyes than just being able to pilot spacecraft, and
therefore maybe there is some justification for these qualifications?
Miss Con. I think this is true, that the astronaut has more duties
to perform in space than just to operate the spacecraft. It is to observe
and perform other cities, but. the primary function is still that of
flying the spacecraft. 'That is wihy it is easier to take a pilot and
teach him the other jobs which need to be done in space than to
take an engineer or a geologist., or some oth er scientist and teach them
a pilot.
Mr. WVAGOOINER. Would you care to add anything, Mrs. Iart?
Mrs. hART. I take a little broader position on this whole question,
because as you noticed in my statement, I suggested that the research
should be completed on this to obtain knowledge and to encourage
young women who are currently studying scientific subjects so she
could, even though not pilots, eventually, if not right away, be able
to go along in these as scientific observers.
The question of Mr. Carpenter's fatigue was brought up. I think
it demonstrated lie was being asked to do perhaps one or two things too
much. The job was piloting. It.also included scientific observations.

I think we should consider the possibility of a scientific observer
being a different job. It would be encouraging for young ladies in
school today to continue in this field.
Mr. WAGGONNER. That leads to the second question.
I don't believe the chairman meant quite what he said in an earlier
remark when he said one of the chief reasons of the space program
was to colonize some of these other places that we might investigate
I don't think that was exactly what he meant, although I think I
understand what lie did mean, I believe there is a point where ladies
can contribute something to this space program.
There is a point where we are going to have women space travellers.
It may be to colonize other planets. We don't know, and there is
no way for us to know.
Could you tell us at what point in this program you think a woman
could best enter initially this program and contribute the most?
Miss COBB. In date you mean I
Mr. WAGGO.NNER. At what phase in the experiment?
Miss COBB. What phase of the testing?
Mr. WAGGONNER. 'What phase of the experiment?
Miss COBB. Women would have to complete the astronaut tests com-
plete all the phases of testing, and then go into the training series. I
think this could be accomplished within a few months on an all-out
basis. My thinking is-everyone agrees as you so well said-that
women wilI eventually go into space. There will be a need for women
to go into space and they will go.
As long as it eventually wi h happen, why not here before any other
nation accomplishes the major first in space exploration.
Mr. VAGGONNER. I have one other question:
Admittedly I think what you say is so. We are faced with several
things in this space program of which you have taken cognizance here,
one of which is Russi is beating us to the punch.
Do you think that we ought to sacrifice anything in the way of
accomplishment in time with regard to our lunar landings and other
space activities, or to go into this program to the extent that we would
put a woman in space at the expense of slowing down another pro-
gram ?
Miss COBB. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. WAGGONNER. Would you think that it would be a reasonable
thing to assume that. maybe after this next orbit flight, which will
go as many as six orbits, that we continue our present program toward
at lunar landing, and then as soon thereafter as practical, in one of the
perhaps three-orbit flights, there would be one that we could train a
woman astronaut for? Would that be something along the lines that
you ladies have in mind?
Miss COBB. No, sir; I think that we do not have to wait for the land-
ing on the moon before women can go into space.
fr. WAGGONNER. I am not saying wait until then, I am saying
should be interpose, between the next orbital flight of maybe six orbits
and the lunar landing, a three-orbit flight with a properly trained
woman astronaut?
Miss COBB. I don't think it is too soon to start training women for
space flight and, in fact, we should have started long before now. The
first step is to get them going through the rest of the tests immediately,

and then at the point in the training where our proficiency in these
simulators comes up to the proficiency of the male astronauts, then to
insert her into the next orbital flight plan.
I don't think you have to start a whole new program for women.
Given the opportunity to prove our proficiency in space simulators,
and when our proficiency equals that of the male astronauts, insert
her in the first next coming space flight.
Mr. WAGOONNFR. Mr. Chairman, don't have any other question,
but I would like to say these girls are dead serious.
Mr. ANFUSO. I think, in conclusion, I might say, Miss Cobb, that
what you would like to accomplish is a parallel program, but not to
interfere with any existing program; is that correct?
Miss COBB. I think it need not be a separate program, nor interfere
with the current program.
Mr. ANrUso. One final question, Mr. Fulton.
Mr. FULTON. Women are paying their share of the taxes in this
country. They have just as much right to the use of the equipment as
the men, don't they?
Miss CoB. Yes, sir.
Mr. FuLroN. Secondly, when the scientists first started putting liv-
ing animals in space, it is rather remarkable that both the dogs and
the monkeys were all without exception female.
Both Russian and American scientists put female animals into space
and suddenly they stopped, when they found they were successful. I
think that is very remarkable.
Thank you.
Mr. ANzFuso. Thank you very much, Miss Cobb and Mrs. Hart.
You made valuable witnesses.
Mrs. HART. Thank you so much.
Miss CoBB. Thank you.
Mr. ANFUSO. We will recess so we can talk to Miss Cochran for a
Mr. ANFU80. The committee will come to order.
I have the honor and privilege of welcoming Miss Jacqueline Coch-
ran who, without a question, is the foremost woman pilot in the
world and who holds more national and international speed, distance,
and altitude records than any other living person.
Miss Cochran, do you have a prepared statement?
Miss CochRAN. I do, Mr. Chairman, and I want to greet you and
the members of your committee, and thank you very much for the
opportunity to come here today.
Mr. FULTON. This side would particularly like to welcome you.
You are accomplished in many fields, and I think it should be noted
on the record that you were a nominee for Congress recently. You
are interested in other fields than just space and air.
Miss COCHRAN. Well I lost that one, Mr. Fulton, by 1,500 votes.
Mr. ANFJUSO. All right, Miss Cochran, will you proceed with your

Miss CocHeaN. I only heard, Mr. Chairman on Thursday, when
I was out West, that I was going to be requested to come before your
committee, and I had no opportunity to prepare very much of any-
thing but my own thoughts more or less off the cuff.
Mr. ANFUSO. I read your statement. I think it is a very good one.
Mr. WAGoNNER. We don't know, Mr. Chairman, up to this point,
whether these ladies drove or flew here. [Laughter.]
Mr. ANFuso. Do you want this on the record or off the recordI
Go ahead.
Miss COCHRAN. I flew.
Mr. ANruso. That is on the record.
Miss COCHRAN. My name is Jacqueline Cochran. I live at Indio,
I received my airplane pilot's license in 1932. Since then I have
flown more than 13,000 hours as command pilot in many different
kinds of planes and have had several hundred hours of solo time in
jet aircraft.
This flying has involved much high-speed precision flying. I hold
more national and international speed, distance, and altitude records
than any other living person.
During World War II, first as a member of the General Staff of
the Army Air Force Training Command in Texas and then as a
member of the General Staff of the Air Force with headquarters in
the Pentagon, I directed the selection and training and subsequent
operational duties of more than 1,000 women pilots known as the
Women Air Force Service Pilots (WASP) and for my services in
this connection received our country's Distinguished Service Medal.
This statement is being made for submission to the subcommittee
of the Space Committee of the House of Representatives in connection
with its hearing to determine whether there has been any discrimina-
tion against women in the Nation's space exploration program, and
presumably also to determine what part, if any, women should have
at this time as astronauts in this country 's space program.
My general views are as follows:
1. I do not believe there has been any intentional or actual dis-
crimination against women in the astronaut program to date. As
one who has had much experience in high-speed precision flying and
over the years has passed many of the tests that were given to select
the seven" first astronauts and also as one who would like exceedingly
to go into space, I do not feel that I have been the subject. of any
2. The manned space flights are extremely expensive and also urgent
in the national interests and therefore in selecting astronauts it was
natural and proper to sift them from the group of male pilots who had
already proven by aircraft testing and high-speed precision flying
that they. were experience, competent, and qualified to meet possible
emergencies in a new environment.
May I digress from my prepared statement and make an
I have spent a great deal of time at Edwards Air Force Base, where
your test pilots are engaged in testing through all phases of new air-

craft. Up until 1953-the last time I checked it-I think 1 person
out of approximately 100 would pass the requirements to become a
test pilot in this country.
I believe that I would perhaps exaggerate if I were to say there are
not more than 100 pilots, civilians and military, in this Nation
today who can take a new type of complicated piece of machinery
called an airplane, like your X-15 or your 106, 104, et cetera and take
that aircraft through every phase right up through phase four.
So I think we have to give a great deal of credit to these men that
have been selected, because they were test pilots.
Mr. FULTON. What is phase four?
Miss CocHRAx. That is to take the aircraft through its ultimate G
forces. And all the other things you have to find out about an air-
plane. Particularly its G forces.
If it is built to sustain 7 G's, they mi ght possibly have to put it up
to 9, and even buckle the airplane to find out where it does fall apart.
They don't wait until it disintegrates but they beat it up badly.
I have seen some of them.
Mr. ANFUso. Proceed, Miss Cochran.
Miss CocHRAN. 3. The determination whether women should be in-
cluded at this time in the program of training and use of astronauts
should not depend on the question of sex but on whether such inclusion
will speed up, slow down, make more expensive, or complicate the
schedule of exploratory space flights our country has undertaken.
4. I believe such determination can best be made by the agencies
directly involved in our space effort and should be left to such agencies.
5. Because very few individuals will be used as astronauts in the
near future and there is no shortage of well-trained and long-ex-
perienced male pilots to serve as astronauts, it follows that present
use of women, as such, in this connection cannot be based on present
6. As yet, there have not been sufficient findings to determine how the
female would compare with the male from the physiological and
psychological standpoints with respect to the new space environment
and with respect to problems that might be encountered during space
.No' woman should be selected as an astronaut trainee unless a
sufficient group of women are simultaneously selected so that norms
can be established rather than merely the individual capabilities of
one or a few who might not be representative of women as a whole.
8. I believe, based on my experience with women in the WASP
program, that women will prove to be as fit as men, physically and
sycholo icall I for space flying. But such proof is presently lacking.
it shouldnot le searched for by injecting women into the middle of
an important and expensive astronaut program. There is a simpler
and sounder way available.
By giving a large group of women of various ages and experience a
series of checks and tests on the ground, short of and apart from any
astronaut trainee program, much beneficial data could be obtained in
the aerospace medical field. Such tests should be considered of a
medical research nature. They need not be limited to pilots. They
should be well organized and supervised so that what is done at one
aerospace medical center with one group of women (whether that

center is operated by one service or another) will tie into and be co-
ordinated with work being done at other medical centers and so that
women participating will all be treated as a part of a single planned
effort with sufficient central control over their selection, severances
and conduct to make the findings valid.
The value of such an experimental program might outweigh the
costs. Such a program would take considerable time to complete
because the "leadtime" for research having to do with people is quite
If I take the present astronauts as a criteria for how long it takes
to train them, I believe they were in training for 3 years before we
threw them up.
It might well develop a well-selected group of a dozen or more
qualified women by the end of such research program to start an astro-
naut trainee program for women.
9. In the WASP program during World War II, I limited appli-
cants to women pilots principally to simplify the screening process,
there being so many applicants, and also automatically to eliminate at
the start those subject to air sickness.
I might interject, I only required 35 hours of certified flying time and
I do not care whether it was solo or dual.
Otherwise, there was little if any advantage in taking women with
previous flying training.
It is for this reason I say that the experiments with women using the
centrifuge, pressure chamber and exposure to heat and low tempera-
tures need not be limited to pilots. In this connection, I have in mind
not the elimination of pilots, because all other things equal, they would
be the best. group to start with, but the possible part-time use as volun-
teers at little, if any, added cost, of women already in the ground
services. Also, I have in mind the need for a large group considering
the time the research will take and the natural rate of attrition among
the volunteers due to marriage, childbirth, and other causes.
(The biography of Miss Cochran follows:)
Jacqueline Cochran, over her extended flying career, has established well over
100 international speed, altitude and distance records for both Jet and recipro-
cating aircraft, many of which she still holds. She has been awarded many
medals, citations, and honors some of which are hereinafter outlined. She has
been, at the same time, a successful businesswoman whose initial work in the
beauty field led her finally to carry out her own exacting ideas of a successful
cosmetic line owned by a company which she formed for its purpose called
Jacqueline Cochran, Inc., in which she presently serves as chairman of the
board. She also shares the responsibility, with her husband Floyd B. Odium,
for the operation of their large fruit ranch and home located near Indio, Calif.
Miss Cochran is the only woman who, flying solo, has won first place in the
famous Bendix Transcontinental Trophy Race. She won the race in 1938 against
a field of 14 male pilots.
She was the first woman in the world to fly faster than mach I which Is the
speed of sound (sometimes referred to as breaking the sound barrier).
Miss Cochran was also the first woman to fly at mach 2 (twice the speed of
sound) which, however, was not a "solo" flight.
Also, but not as a solo flight, she was the first woman to make an arrested
landing in a jet on an aircraft carrier and to be catapulted from a car-ier.
She was the first woman to make a totally blind landing-that is to say, non-
visual, with use of instruments only.
During World War II Miss Cochran became the first woman to fly a bomber
across the ocean for delivery to the British. She then recruited 25 American

women pilots and as their leader took them to England where they flew in non-
combat operation for the British Forces. She was then called home by Gen.
H. H. (Hap) Arnold and put In charge of the enlistment, training and operation
of a g-roup of women pilots which became known as the WASPS. In this con-
nection Miss Cochran served first on the General Staff of the Air Force Training
Command and then on the General Staff of the Air Force in the Pentagon. More
than 1,000 WASPS were on active noncombat air duty at the time of their
deactivation toward the end of the war.
For her war services Miss Cochran received the Distinguished Service Medal
from President Franklin Roosevelt. She was also made a member of the French
Legion of Honor.
The Clifford burke Harmon Trophy Award of the International League of
Aviators has been awarded to Miss Cochran some 16 times. This presentation
usually is by the President of the United States at the White House. She is
to receive this award once again in the fall of 1962 for her outstanding accom-
plishments in 1961.
Miss Cochran is the only woman to receive the Gold Medal of the Federation
Aeronautique Internationale which was presented to her at the annual conference
of the FAI in Istanbul, Turkey, in 1954. For many international records she has
also received the De La Vaulx Medal from the Federation Aeronautique In-
ternationale on various occasions.
Woman of the year in business for 1953 and 1954: Miss Cochran was voted
for 2 successive years the outstanding "business woman of the year," in the
Associated Press poll membership newspaper editors.
The Woman of the Year Award and Medal by the American Woman's Associa-
tion were given to Miss Cochran for her eminent achievements.
Silver Trophy: Awarded to Miss Cochran for one of the nine women of the year
for successful achievement by the Los Angeles Times, December 5, 1954.
Silver Distaff Award: Presented to Miss Cochran as one of the "six most
successful women" for 1954 by Woman's Home Companion in its January 1955
issue--"for personal effort, and courage--who in 1954 achieved some important
contribution to all our lives."
Frank M. Hawks Memorial Award was presented to Miss Cochran for out.
standing aerial accomplishments.
In addition to the Cross of the Legion of Honor Miss Cochran holds from the
French Republic the Medal of Air, as well as the French Air Force Wings.
She has also received the honorary wings of the Turkish Air Force, Chinese Air
Force, Spanish Air Force, and Royal Thailand Air Force.
The U.S. Air Force Association awarded a special trophy and on another
occasion a inedal to Miss Cochran for distinguished civilian service in the
defense of our country.
Bliss Cochran was elected president of the Federation Aeronnutique Inter-
nationale (FAI) in April 1958 and she was reelected president the following
year at the conference held in Moscow, Russia. She is the only woman who has
served as president of this international aviation organization since it was
established over 50 years ago. Upon the expiration of her term as president of
FAI in October 1960, she was elected U.S. vice president of FAI, an office which
she currently holds.
She is chairman of the board of the National Aeronautic Association, which Is
the U.S. affiliate of the Federation Aeronautique Internationale.
Miss Cochran received the Billy Mitchell Trophy as the outstanding woman
pilot of the year, the only woman to be honored, in 1938.
The only woman who ever received the W. J. McGough Trophy for outstanding
performance for the year 1939.
Awarded the Woman of the Year, 195-x3, Trophy by the California Wing Aux-
iliary, the Air Force Association in 1954.
Awarded the Lady flay Drummond-Hlay Trophy "lin recognition of outstanding
achievements in aviation."
May 5, 1955, received the Golden Fleece Award from the National Association
of Wool Manufacturers for achievements in her chosen fields.
In 1957 she was specially honored by the Air Force Association, celebrating
the 50th anniversary of the Air Force, its one of a select group who had con-
tributed to the progress of the Air Force.
On the occasion of the Stonybrook, Long Island, "Salute to the Air Force" in
105$. Jacqueline Cochran was awarded the official Scroll of Honor of the State

of New York, In honor and recognition of her achievements and many contribu-
tions to strengthen American aviation, presented to her by Gov. Averell Harri-
Miss Cochran was initiated a member of Theta Sigma Phi, the national fra-
ternity for women in Journalism, during the national convention of the organi-
zation in Colorado Springs, June 25,1960.
January 30, 1962 : Miss Cochran received the General Electric Trophy for "sig-
nitleant achievement in aviation."
She has received the honorary degree of doctor of humane letters from Russell
Sage College, the honorary degree of doctor of laws from Elmira College and
the honorary degree of doctor of science from Northland College.
In 1957 Jacqueline Cochran received Zonta International Achievement Award
for her contribution to aviation.
In 1957 Miss Cochran was named by President Eisenhower as his personal rep-
resentative, with rank of Special Ambassador, to represent him at the Inaugura-
tion of President Somoza of Nicaragua.
She served as a member of the Committee on Security headed by Lloyd Wright,
expresident of the American Bar Association.
Miss Cochran holds a commission as lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force
Reserve and also a commission as lieutenant colonel in the Civil Air Patrol.
During 1950 she served as special consultant to the Chief of Staff, U.S. Air
She served for 9 years on the national board of directors of Camp Fire Girls
and now holds an honorary membership on that board.
She is a director of Northeast Airlines; and of the Air Force Academy Foun-
Miss Cochran is the author of "The Stars at Noon," the story of her career,
experiences, and thoughts, published in 1954 by Little, Brown, & Co. "The Stars
at Noon" has also been published in England, France, Germany, Spain, Turkey,
and Switzerland.
Mr. AN(Tso. Thank you very much, Miss Cochran.
May I ask this question: In paragraph No. 2 of your statement on
the first page you say:
The manned space flights are extremely expensive and also urgent in the
national interests and, therefore in selecting astronauts it was natural and
proper to sift them from the group of male pilots who had already proven by
aircraft testing and high speed precision flying that they were experienced, com-
petent and qualified to meet possible emergencies In a new environment.
Does any woman to your knowledge meet those specifications that
you, yourself, have laid out I
Miss CocuiAw. Again, Mr. Chairman, I don't think anyone could
make such a statement. I can only examine what happened with
women pilots in World War II and would be happy to offer you that
No. 1, the sad part of the program was, our attrition rate was very
high, due to marriage. I don't know the exact figure. Somewhere
in the neighborhood of 40 percent. They flew every type of aircraft
this Nation had, just as successfully. In fact, their fatality and ac-
cident rate was only slightly under the men doing the same work.
Elimination rate on pilot training was slightly under that for cadets.
I attributed that particular fact to the reason that they were so
carefully selected, and we were already down pretty well at the bottom
of the barrel of manpower for trainees for pilots when we started the
women program. I took a group of 25 alirady trained to England
and 1 received the King George Medal. These girls were successful in
we were having trouble with the plane B-26. Pilots were walking
off the program because, they kept saying, "I don't mind bei kille
in combat but not in a training program."

I recommended, and the plan was accepted, that we put women
on B-26's.
I had a theory that if we took them out of the school, where they
didn't get exposed to normal scuttlebutt among pilots, on a voluntary
basis, we might prove something in training.
I had approximately 150 women flying an operational duty.
They did about 70,000 hours of operational duty-towing targets,
being shot at with live ammunition, without a single fatality other than
one minor accident. It was a very unique and very fine experience
and I think contributed a lot in the effort in World War II.
So I don't have any doubt about women. I am thinking with the
great rush that is necessary now to maybe catch up, from all I have
been told by the newspapers, that we do not want to slow down our
program, and you are going to have to, of necessity, waste a great
deal of money when you take a large group of women in, because you
lose them through marriage.
That is why women are not on airplanes. I have been a director of
an airline for 14 years. Airlines spend $50,000 average to check a
pilot out on a 707 or Convair 880.
That is expensive if you lose them through marriage.
I think first and foremost no one is successful unless they are first
a woman and first a man and have all of the instincts and desires of
the two sexes. So therefore you have that kind of attrition rate when
you start a program. Therefore, for the very necessary evaluation, I
do not think it makes much difference whether they are pilots or not.
One of these girls that was tested at Lovelace has an engineering
degree. She works for the telephone company as a research engineer.
We have a very unique group of women-as you can see from Mrs.
Hart. and Miss Cobb.
I did not have anything to do with her corning into it. She was the
first. But I think it must be a very large group, to determine many
things, before we jump into something where we do not know what
we are doing.
Mr. ANFUSO. Miss Cochran, you do believe that women belong in
the space program?
Miss CocHRA. I certainly think the research should be done. Then
I can tell you afterward, Mr. Chairman. If they prove successful
under the test, then I could answer that question.
Mr. ANFuso. Then, even though we may lose some of the women
through marriage, I suppose the importance of the program should
at least call our attention to, or at least require very serious thought,
as to whether or not we should not have a parallel program for women
for training purposes.
Miss COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, if you take a large enough group
of women as many pilots as you can get, as many as you can take
that are already in the armed services, and put, them through every
single test, as we know it now, short of orbiting-I again say it is
better if you have pilots, because they already lave some mental con-
ditioning to what goes on-I think it would be a very fine thing to
do, and then, if they prove on all these tests they are just as fitted, or
maybe more fitted, they might prove-who knows, nobody knows, it
has not been done-then you start the next phase of your program-

but certainly they did not put these astronauts up until they had had
almost 3 years of training I
Mr. ANFuso. That is right.
iss COCHRAN. I don't see how you could make a crash program
with a woman, or give her less than given the men-when already it
is admitted there are problems with at least one of the men. . So let's
face some facts.
Mr. ANFUSO. Getting down to the technical phase of this program,
I am sure you are familiar with the criteria laid down by NASA for
the selection and training of astronauts.
Do you believe that this criteria is sound and realistic?
Miss COCHRAN. Well, it has proven so. I do not know all of the
criteria laid down. I know the medical aspect of it pretty well.
Mr. ANFUSO. Two of the principal requirements are a test pilot
experience and an engineering background.
What is your comment on that I
Miss COCnRAN. It seems logical to me. I think if you have a group
of people with more knowledge you are going to take the best you
have. If you go to a bunch of bananas you pick the best one from
the bunch to eat.
To answer your question more specifically, I don't think it is neces-
sarily mandatory-I don't know, we have not tested that out-that
they have an engineering degree.
r just don't think anyone has. I don't think NASA themselves
can truthfully answer this question at this point.
They havehad only seven men, sir, in this program. So I just don't
think anybody can answer that question.
Mr. ANFUSO. Do you think women should be trained as test pilots?
Miss CocRmAw. Again, this goes back to 1956. When I checked
the cost of checking a pilot out in a B-47, as I recall the figures it was
$144,000 at that time--for one human being. If we are economically
sound enough-and I don't think we are, from what I read in the
newspaper-to spend that type of money, and take a chance that
about the time we are ready to use that person, she starts a family,
then, I am all for it, but I am against waste, because I don't think
we can afford it.
Mr. ANFUSO. Do you think we should start training women, not as
astronauts, but as crewmembers?
M'ss COCHRAN. That makes sense.
Mr. ANFUSO. Any questions?
Mr. KARTII. Miss Cochran, I think I understand your answer to the
question by the chairman as to the requirement of being an engineer
and whether or not you felt it was necessary to be an engineer to qual-
ify as an astronaut.
As a flyer, having had a great deal of experience in jets as well as
conventional aircraft, do you feel it is essential to have been a test
pilot as a qualification or condition to being an astronaut?
Miss COCURAN. Sir, the only thing I can say is that again, if I
were starting a program, which no one knows anything about, and we
still know little about the environment of space, I would still choose
those people that had the highest. level of exposure and experience in
the area that I was dealing within.
Therefore, if I had pilots that were superior-and the test pilots
certainly are sul)erior in their piloting ability or we wouldn't have so

few, and if that test pilot also has had an engineering degree in aero-
nautics or in aerodynamics, I would choose that person. Again, I
repeat, I don't believe anyone, including NASA, can at this point, with
the limited experience we have, say, whether it is necessary or not to
have an engineering degree in aeronautics or aerodynamics or some
phase of aeronautics. I don't know. I can't answer.
Mr. KA i. At this phase of the U.S. space program do you feel that
it is a reasonable requirement for NASA to have as one of the qualifica-
tions that of being a test pilot?
Miss COCHRAN. The only thing I can say is that Major White who,
I believe, did about 90 percent of the research flights on the X-15
last year is a test pilot and has a degree in aeronautical engineering, or
in some phase of aeronautical engineering.
I don t know just which one lie majored in. I think that is interest-
ing. On the other hand, you have the first man in the world who flew
faster than sound-which was a great breakthrough in aviation-the
British at that time were running a friendly race with us to make
mach 1-that was Colonel Yeager, and I think he only finished high
He is from your home State, one of the greatest pilots who ever lived,
in my opinion.
Mr. KArm. Getting away from the engineering requirement, I
would like to ascertain whether you, in your opinion, feel it is a reason-
able requirement that NASA has laid down that you be a test pilot be-
fore you be considered as one of the astronauts in the space program?
Miss COCHRAN. If yoU want my own honest personal opinion-noth-
ing to do with any knowledge, because I have not seen any of the
Mr. KARTUB Your personal opinion.
Miss COCHRAN. I don't think so, no. I was flying an airplane last
year that they thought had some inertial couplingproblems.
I flew it to its maximum speed of mach 1.35. The chief pilot said,
"Did you have any trouble with the aircraft ?"
I said, "No, nothing serious, but something noticeable."
He then said, "I think we got a little tail trouble."
My reply was, 'I think it is in the vertical stabilizer."
My belief happened to prove true. So apart from technical train-
ing, you learn as you go along. I have learned a great. deal. I know
about the practical side of flying, shall we say, and the way planes
are rigge.
Mr. ANFUSO. I have two more questions.
Would you say that a program to train selected American women as
astronauts, apart from our present astronaut program activities, in
order to launch a woman pilot into space before the Soviet Union, is
a worthwhile national objective?
Miss CocnAN. Well, sir, that is a very difficult question to answer.
I think the national objective would be to tr to surpass them in every
field of space exploration-thrust--but I think there are many things
more important, let's put it that way. Sure it is nice to be first, but
it is also nice to be sure.
I don't think it would justify having a crash program. It would
make the hard years of training these men took look a little silly, even
if it succeeded.

8 8 2 0 5 - 0 2 - - - - - - - 5
So, no, I can't quite say I think there should be. In the first place,
I heard more than a year ago Russia was going to--I mean, heard it
in the United States, not with any authority but through the usual
scuttlebutt-going to orbit a woman.
In the meantime they have only orbited two men. The gossip is that
they have had some difficulty andit may be sometime before they orbit
another man.
I don't know if that is true. I have heard it, and I am sure you
have too.
Mr. ANFUSO. Yes InI other words, we should not try to launch a
woman in space merely for propaganda purposes, we must be sure
of tle safety?
Miss CocHiRAN. Yes, I believe that with all my heart. I think it
would be sad if we had difficulty rushing forward trying to beat some
other country in something.
I think we could have a program as I have described in my prepared
statement. I think it would be very help ful and might be very reward-
ing. I feel certainly our exploration of space will be far more reward-
ing than any of us expect it to be.
1 would rather see us program intelligently and with assurance, and
with surety, than to rush into something because we want to get there
first, whether the moon or a satellite.
I would like to see us do it properly and successfully rather than to
make a mess of it.
Mr. ANFTSo. Miss Cochran, a final question: What program would
you reconunend that could be initiated for a. women s space program?
Miss COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, I think I described that in my pre-
pared statement quite well.
Mr. ANFUSO. Yes, you did. Your final thoughts are what?
Miss CociPA. I think they should select as many women as they
can, say, not to exceed 150, 200, but it should be a sizable group-
whatever the powers that, he decide, I think, both pilots and nonpilots
and I think these girls should be put through every possible test on
the, ground that we can, so long as it does not slow up, interfere in any
way with the present program that is being carried forward with our
astronaut program, because I think that is of prime importance to this
MAr. ANFUSO. This is a parallel program that you would recommend?
Miss (ocunAN. If it can be done with the present facilities, or per.
haps putting more people to work, maybe the cost is justified, but
nothing should interfere, in my opinion, with the preseiit research
program that is being conducted.
Mr. ANFUSO. Thank you very much, Miss Cochran.
Any questions on this'side?
Mr. Rousir. Miss Cochran, I gather from your testimony that your
experience has led you to the belief that a woman is as physically
capable as a man and. as emotionally stable and psychologically fitted
as a man for flight.
Is that correct
Miss COCHRAN. Yes, sir, I do. They certainly are with airplanes.
Whether we can say that about space I don't know.
Mr. Rousm. One of your main objections--at least one of the hesita-
tions I noted in your testimony-was the fact we might waste money
88295---6--6 5

because of the high attrition rate if we put a group of women into this
I have noted, however, from the previous testimony, that most of
these ladies who are involved are in their thirties. And, of course, the
astronauts we have selected are in their thirties or very, very early
forties. It would seem to me that from this group the attrition rate
would not be quite so high.
Would you care to comment on that?
Miss COCHRANi. Well, it depends on what your exposure is, and how
clever you are, and where you get around. I can't answer that one.
A very good friend of mine, age 42, just had triplets-so I don't
Mr. RoUsH. May I ask how you feel about this matter, about the
competency of a lady pilot, for example, who is in her thirties as com-
pared to one in her twenties?
Miss COCHRAN. In our program in World War II the average age
ran 22Y2. The woman pilot program was the only one that took
them at 181/2. If I were to subtract about 30 women who were top
women pilots, had 200 hours of flying time, et cetera, that were aged
32 to 35 which was the top limit, we found the young ones trained
very wedl-et's put it that way. So I don't know. I think maturity
and a great deal of exposure and flying time certainly have to tell
some kind of a tale.
Mr. ROUSH. Apparently someone disagreed with this in the selec-
tion of astronauts.
Miss COCHRAN. Naturally they took experience. You are not going
to get experience among these young people and I don't blame them.
But I am talking about starting a research program from the ground.
It might be very much of an advantage to take younger people, but if
you want to get something off the ground to start with, as we did in
the astronaut program, you will take those people with the greatest
level of experience.
I think I would want to do that with the women under the same
Mr. RoUSH. If we institute a program of lady astronauts, do you
agree it would be well in our research to have women of all age
Miss COCHRAN. Yes, sir; all age groups. I think we should start
with 18 if you can get them, right on through to those that, well, per-
haps as old as I am, I have a lot of experience.
Mr. ANFUSO. To be fair with all the members, we have about 10
minutes. I would like to call on every member here, so it will be
helpful if you will limit yourselves to one or two questions.
Mr. FULTOn. I yield to the lady.
Mr. RIEHLMAN. I yield to the lady.
Miss CoCHRAN. I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, I have a
letter from Miss Cobb. I think this is an interesting statement:
The qualification rules have been laid down for astronauts, and although
NASA says they have nothing against women, it Just so happens the require-
ments are such that no one can meet them.
I don't know much about regulations, but I do know that excep-
tions have been and can be made as to qualifications without destroy-
ing the scientific basis of the program.

Mr. Glenn did not graduate from college, and I checked upon
Slayton's heart condition. It had not been known for 3 years. I
called Dr. Randolph Lovelace last night and asked him.
Mrs. WEIS. One question, Miss Cochran.
In the other testimony the question was brought up that these 12
gals who had taken the tests had not completed them. 13efore a larger
program, such as you envision, got started, would you be in favor of
having these 12 women complete the full test?
Miss COCHRAN. They could be part of the program. I donated the
funds for these women to have the medical examinations. As you
know, the same medical institution also was responsible for the medical
checks of the astronauts. If I had not been interested in women
having a look-in on the program I would not have gone to this ex-
pense and trouble.
I just want to see it done on an extremely sound basis when it is
done, and well coordinated, and not just a big hoopla.
Mrs. WEIs. Do you feel they could get a medical history from
these 12?
Miss CocHmRN. I think it is too small a group, and if you start any-
thing you should start with a really large group of women, including
some of those in the armed services.
Also, I think we should train some medical technicians. I am sure
you will get medical technicians that will volunteer.
I think you are going to need, if you send out large groups of
people, more people than just those people who know how to fly an
airplane. I think Mrs. Hart was very wise in her statement when
she said perhaps in view of what happened to Mr. Carpenter you need
to have some one else along to do the photography.
I chatted with him at length.
He had to load the cameras, and so forth, I got up to nine extra
things he did.
I believe there were nine, perhaps seven, that were not required of
Mr. Glenn when he orbited in that 3-hour period.
Mr. ANFuso. Thank ou.
Mr. COWrMAN. You alluded to the fact that it would involve a sub-
stantial amount of money, Miss Cochran, to train lady astronauts,
that this same consideration has been given to the training of pilots
for airlines, and that all of this would be lost in the event of marriage.
If we follow that, wouldn't that eliminate all women from all pro-
Miss COCHRAN. No, because I don't believe you would want your
wife--Mrs. Hart certainly is a great example here-when she is hay-
ing a child to be flying for nearly a year.
secondly, if the astronaut's end of flying is going to be on a parallel
with airplane flying-which I am quite familiar with-it requires a
great deal of constant work and training.
Why do they give the airline pilots a check every 60 days on their
instrument proficiency I
A friend of mine, who has flown with an airline company for 20
years, finally washed out and couldn't hack it on his procedures.
I could only liken it to a person who plays a mus'cal instrument,
or a dancer, or that kind of thing, they have to train constantly.

I asked Mr. Heifetz--I look upon him as one of the greats of the
violin-I said "It is obvious you have a great gift, but apart from
your gift, how many hours of training do you go into before you
give a concert"?
lie said, "I just couldn't say, I work so hard at it."
I think that same thing applies to flying. Therefore, if you lose a
whole year, as fast as we move, your practiclly have to start over.
So you cannot compare that to the normal job.
You take a person in medicine today. Even a technician. I have
heard them make the statement if they go away for a year, and don't
keep up with the advancement they have to get. in and dig hard to
resume their work also.
Mr. CORMIAN. Thank you.
Mr. AN-vso. Mrs. Riley, I would like to give you the opportunity
of asking some questions.
Mrs. TILEY. 'You spoke of educational background or training of
one of the astronauts. Looking at me, you know I am living in my
second childhood. Did Mr. Lindbergh have a limited educational
Miss COCHRAN. I really don't. know.
Mrs. RLE Y. High school, I believe.
Miss COCHRAN. Well, Colonel Yeager only had high school and
lie was the first to make mach I in the world.
Mrs. Riuyy. I tied to encourge some of my erstwhile pupils by
saying that Mr. Lindbergs didn't finish colle e and look where he got.
Miss CoChRAN. If we took a poll in this room, you probably
wouldn't find any straight A student.
This world is run by-B students.
ri1. ANFUSO. You mean it is run by boys.
Miss COCHRAN. Sometimes they act. like that.
Mr. WAGtOXER. Probably governed by C students.
Miss Coc1R,-.;. I agre with that too.
Mr. HECHLER. I am delighted you mentioned the great West Vir-
ginian, Colonel Yeager, the first man to break the sound barrier.
You mentioned attrition rate for marriage.
I notice 3 out of the 12 who have passed the Lovelace test are mar-
ried and that did not seem to interfere with their desire to go on.
Miss COCHRAN. No, I didn't say it did, but if you initiate a pro-
gram I say you are going to lose, if the WASP program is anj cri-
teria-that is all I have to go by-a great many through marriage,
who are pretty soon producing their families.
Mr. HECHLER. I want to commend you for a very objective state-
You have given the committee a lot of useful guidelines.
Miss COCHRAN. I think I have proven that I am interested in women
having a chance at this, but I think it should be done, and can't, over-
stress it, in a very careful and well-planned fashion across the board.
Mr. HECHLER. Thank you.
Mr. ANFuso. Mr. Riehlman.
Mr. RrIELMAN. First I want to commend Miss Cochran for the
very fine statement she Us made and the forthright manner she has
proceeded here.

In your experience with the WASP what percentage did actually
wash out.?
Miss CociRAN. It was just a fraction under 40 percent, as I recall.
This is almost 20 years. I have the records. They are in my dead
files. The attrition rate I believe runs higher today in the armed
I don't know this but I am under the impression it is so. I think
it was about 40 percent. It paralleled that of the men. Just a frac-
tion under the men at that time.
Mr. RIFJILMAN. That is all.
Mr. ANFUSO. We will have a summation by our bachelor of the
committee, Dr. Fulton.
Mr. FULTON. I want to read the last sentence of your statement.
I have in mind the need for a large group considering the time the research
will take place and the natural rate of attrition among the volunteers due to
marriage, childbirth, and other causes.
My question is this: What size group would you want?
Miss CocHRN. I would not want to see less than 50 to 75 or 100.
Mr. FULTON. It should be-
Miss CocHRAN. Say 50 would be minimum.
Mr. FULTON. About 50 to 100?
Miss COCHRAN. Even more.
Mr. FULTON. Training as astronauts?
Miss CocimAN. Yes.
Mr. FULTON. Next, would you put them through the same kind of
a training as the astronauts got in their 3-year period?
Miss COCHRAN. Yes.
ON. So you would start them on astronaut training after
this preliminary selection?
Miss COCHRAN. The ground training, yes, sir.
Mr. FULTON. Would you have to qualify both for aeronautics and
Miss COciAN. I don't know, I think it might be interesting to
train astronauts that have never been pilots. Extremely interesting.
Mr. FULTON. Would you have the Air Force open up the Air Force
Academy to these women for courses?
Mr. ANFuso. Will you yield there before she answers that question ?
In reference to what you just said, about being extremely interest-
ing to train one who has not been a pilot, would you say that we might
train a scientist, either female or male?
Miss COCHRAN. Yes, sir; if you have an opportunity.
Mr. F LTON. Would you open the service academies up so they could
be taking under the same conditions these courses that would advance
their careers in astronautics?
Miss CocHRu. No, sir; but you will have to bear with me a minute.
When I was called home from England by General Arnold in 1942 to
head up and slect a group of women, at that time we had already the
WAVES and the WAC. The Marine Corps was just getting ready
to have their Marine girls-
Mr. FULTON. Then you would not put these women in our U.S.
Miss CocmA. May I finish, sir? Otherwise I can't get to your
question-unless you hear my thinking through.

Mr. FUmoN. All right.
Miss COCHRAN. Therefore, the Air Force was the part of the Army,
and at that time there were 101 women flying in England, with about
40 ferry pilots composed of quite a number of nationalities, including
25 American women. What they were doing in Russia we didn't
have any knowledge of.
General Arnold said that because the Marines will have their women
under their banner we will have no trouble having a group of women
put into the Air Force.
I said I would like to make a recommendation, for whatever it is
worth. No one knows how well women can fly collectively-to take a
cross-section of the women of our country-it has never been done.
Of the some 10,000 who held licenses less than 200 had 200 hours of
flying time-because I surveyed every one of them.
Only 40 could be found that had ever flown an aircraft that had
retractable landing gear. Therefore, they did not have a very high
level of training so far as pilots.
I said:
It costs about $530 to swear one of these women in and get her out of the
service. It will not be any credit to the Air Force if you find collectively and
psychologically they are not fitted, so why didn't we take a group and set a cri-
teria, if they met it, request Congress to make them a part of the Air Force, put
them on the civilian basis until that is determined.
This recommendation was approved. I had more than 33,000 ap-
plications from women. On 12,000 of them I processed paper; about
5,000 were put through their medicals. All of them claimed they had
equivalent of 2 years of college. Some of the other services got pretty
jealous of this.
We kept publicity down. Some were looking for numbers, not
quality. So a little bit of squabble started as to who wanted to take
over my WASP.
A bill to militarize the WASP was introduced, 411 votes, it was de-
feated by 11 votes.
The women did rove satisfactory.
I come back. We are in a new era. I don't think you should open
the Academy to the women. Maybe never. You have the ROTC,
NROTC, perhaps institutions of higher learning in which you can
put them. Don t clutter up the Air Academy with women unless we
know we want them.
We are different.
Mr. FULTON;. You might make these women and this particular
corps a peacetime civilian corps of about 50 to a hundred women and
a 3-year training period. Is that about what I sum your statement
up tobeI
Miss COCHRAN. Whatever training period is necessary, sir.
I don't know-3 years or I year. 1 haven't seen the evaluation of
the 3-year training that the astronauts had.
Mr. FumroN. I hope you will not take marriage as a disqualification
for space.
Miss COCnRAN. I would not.
Mr. FULTON. All of our present astronauts are married-Shepard,
Cooper, Glenn, Grissom, each of them have two children, Carpenter
has four.

So either marriage or children would seem to be an asset for space
rather than a defect; wouldn't it?
Miss CcuRAN. It would not be an asset while you were having the
They didn't have them, you know.
Mr. FULTON. I am sure you are the first one that ever thought of
having babies in space. [Laughter.]
The other point that I should think we should emphasize is we are
coming to the Gemini program-that is the two-man, or a man and
a woman, flight, and also the Apollo program with maybe three or
Eve people.
Actually, women could be very good assistants in those flights, even
if they were not the captain of the astronaut ship, isn't that correct?
Miss COCHRAN. I agree, you may want a medical technician aboard
that is a woman, or a woman who is assistant pilot. I don't know.
I am not against women being in this program. Don't misunder-
stand. I would not have done what I did to get at least a small group
a showing.
Mr. ANFUSO. I don't think your testimony indicates that.
Miss COCHRAN. I don't want anybody to get that idea. If I had not
been for women in space at one time Iwould not have even financed
the women getting the medicals.
Mr. FULTON. You might point out that Molly Pitcher in the battle
of Monmouth, outlasted her husband, John Hays. She took over the
cannon when he collapsed.
Miss COChRAN. Yes, also the women who crossed the continent.
Mr. FULTON. The ladies in the pioneer wagons, covered wagons,
went along and drove with their men with guns across their laps.
As a matter of fact, we have Sacajawea, who led the Lewis and
Clark expedition in searching for the river leading to the Pacific
Ocean and was cited by the President.
Likewise we have a gal named Malinche who was a guide for Cortez.
You ladies ought to be celebrating July 20 because it was on July
20, 1588, that a woman took charge of the seas. Queen Elizabeth on
that date defeated the Spanish Armada. The Spaniards had 880
ships, and she had 130 ships. If a woman could take strategic com-
mand of the seas maybe women could also take command of space and
use it for peaceful purposes.
Queen "Isabella financed the expedition of Columbus.
You ladies own most of the stocks, most of the bonds, most of the
savings accounts. You really are financing this.
And then we must never forget Pocahontas. John Smith said
about her, "At the moment of my immediate execution, at the peril
of her own life, she saved my life."
So that there was a case where a woman was an assist in a very
dangerous situation.
Miss CocHRAN. I think that was done for love, sir. Women will
do an awful lot for that.
Mr. Fr TTON. I hope you don't think that space is going to be with-
out love, do you?
Miss COCHRAN. Well, I would hope not.
Mr. FrLToN. Ladies can be courageous for various reasons in space.

Miss COCHRAK. I think there is no doubt women can go into space
and be as successful as men, but I say I don't want to see it done in
a haphazard manner.
Mr. FULTON. Maybe we men shouldn't be talking about keeping
you out of space. We should be helping you. Women have come to
the fore and taken over and performed a magnificent job when men
failed. This is really brought home to me by the maid of Orleans,
who, at the head of 10,000 men, after every other person had failed,
won and carried the day; didn't she?
I am very serious about it. I am pointing out where women under
extreme conditions have risen and have really either done as well
as a man or better.
Miss COCHRAN. Well, sir, in 1938 there were 14 pilots took off. I
won the race across the board from the boys. So, women can fly as
well as men. But, we are in a new environment. We are in a new
era. Even if we are second in getting a woman into the new environ-
ment, it's better than to take a chance on having women fall flat on
their faces.
Mr. FuLToN. I congratulate you.
Mr. ANFuso. Mr. Fulton is a bachelor and he thinks women are
out of this world. He would like to get them out of this world.
Miss COCHRAN. May I make this one remark: There was one general
who gave me a lot of trouble. He was a colonel then. I got very
angry with him in a meeting and I said, "You like women, but you
don't like women pilots." He married one of my WASPs.
Mr. ANFrUSO. thank you very much. The committee will stand
adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 12 noon, the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at
10 a.m. Wednesday, July 18,1962.)

8 8 2 9 5 - 6 2 - 6

];fgton1, D.C.
The special subcommittee met at I0 a.m., tHe Ilonora)le Victor L.
Anfuso, chairman of the special sublxom muittee, presidiing.
MAr. ANFUSO. The commit tee will coine to order.
Ladies and gent lemnen, we nieet again to continue our investigation
into the Problem of the qualificatiolls necessary for (he selection and
training of astronauts.
There is no question that, the witnesses who appear before us today
have demonstrated by their background as engineering test pilots,
and as products of NASA's astronaut training, thlat the criteria
for choosing space pilots at this point in our national space program
were wisely selected.
Certainly in the not too distant future many more astronauts,
pilots, and crew members will be necessary. Furlermore, the devel-
opment of new type of space craft of much more complex design and
advanced performance, will perhaps not. require such stringent quali-
fications on the part of the crew members. It is not too early to
begin to determine these facts.
Today we have with us two Americans of heroic stature of whom
nothing further need be said. They are Col. John TI. Glenn and
Comdr. Ml. Scott Carpenter.
With the two astronauts, as a representative of the new breed of
American, the space scientist, is Mr. George M. Low, who is Director
of Spacecraft and Flight Missions, Office of Manned Space Flight,
We are privileged to have these distinguished Americans here.
We are very hppy that our distinguished chairman, Mr. George
Miller, chairman of tie. full committee, was able to attend this meeting.
Do any of you gentlemen have a preparedd statement .
Mr. Low. I have a brief statement to start off with.
Mr. ANIFtSO. Mr. Low, you may proceed.
Ml. Low. My statement this morning covers the qualifications that
we have set in our current program for the select ion of astronauts.
Ml. ANFuso. At, this point, before MI|'. Low makes his statement,
I should like to place in the record the biography of Mr. Low, which
is indeed outstanding. It will be inserted hi this point in the record.

(The biography of Mr. Low follows:)
George M. (Michael) Low was appointed Director of Spacecraft and Flight
Missions, Office of Manned Space Flight, on November 1, 1961. He is responsible
for the development of manned spacecraft and for the management of manned
space flight mission operations, including Projects Mercury and Apollo.
Low was born In Vienna, Austria, in 1926. lIe caine to the United States in
1940, and became a naturalized citizen 5 years later. Ile earned a bachelor of
aeronautical engineering degree in 1948, and a master of science in aeronauti-
cal engineering degree in 1950, both front Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.
Low joined the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, predecessor of
NASA, at the Lewis Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio, in 19. There lie
specialized iu research in the fields of aerodynamic heating; boundary layer
theory and transition; and internal flow in supersonic and hypersonic aircraft.
During his years at the Lewis facility, he was head of the Fluid Mechanics
Section and later Chief of the Special Projects Branch. In October 1958, when
NASA was established, lie was assigned to the headquarters office as Chief of
Manned Space Flight, and later was nanted A.sistant Director for Mannied Space
Flight Programs.
The author of numerous technical papers and articles, Low is an associate
fellow of the Institute of Aerospace Sciences, and a senior niember of tji
American Rocket Society.
Low Is married to the former Mary McNaniara. Mr. and ,Mrs. Low and
their four children live at 7204 Broxburn Drive, Bethesda, Md.
Mr. M ,ILLER. Have you included, too, the biograplhy of the seven
I think
it should
go into tl record.
Mr. ANFUSO. At this point it will be ordered that. the biography of
the seven astronauts will also be inserted.
(The biographies follow:)
Malcolm S. Carpenter, a lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy, was born
May 1, 1925, in Boulder, Colo. lie is 5 feet 101/, Inches tall, weighs 155 pounds,
and has green eyes and brown hair. His wife is the former Rene Loulse Price,
whose father, Mr. Lyle S. Price, lives at 963 Ninth Street, Boulder. The Car-
penters have four children: Mark Scott, Robyn Jay, Kristen Elaine, and Can-
dace Noxon. Carpenter's mother is living in Boulder at 2635 Mapleton Street.
His father, a retired chemist, lives in Palner Lake, Colo.
After receiving his early education through high school in Boulder, Carpenter
entered Colorado College in 1943 to participate In the V-5 flight training pro.
gram sponsored by the U.S. Navy. After a year there, lie spent 6 months in
training at St. Mary's Preflight School, Moraga, Calif., and 4 months in primary
flight training at Ottumwa, Iowa. When the V-5 program ended at the close
of World War 1I, Carpenter entered the University of Colorado to major in
aeronautical engineering. Although he left the university in 1949 without
having received his degree, he was awarded an. "earned" degree in aeronautical
engineering in May 1962, after his three-orbit flight.
Carpenter rejoined the Navy in 1949 and received flight training from Novem-
ber 1949 to April 1951 at l'ensacolt, Fla., an]d Corpus (Christi, Tex. lie sqptlt
3 months In the Fleet Airborne Electronics Training School, San Diego, Calif..
and was in a Lockheed P-2V transitional training unit at Whidbey Islal,
Wash., until October 1951.
In November 1951 he was assigned to Patrol Squadron 6 based at Barbers
Point, lawali. During the Korean conflict, he was with Pa1trol Squadron 6
engaged in antisubmarine patrol, shipping surveillance and aerial mining
activities in the Yellow Sea, South China Sea, aind thr l,'ormosa Straits. In
1954 he entered the Navy Test 1'ilot School at the Naval Air Test Center, I'atux-
ent River, Md. After completion of his training, lie was assigned to the Fle,'
tronlc Test divisionn of the NATC. In thiN assignment carpenterr ('nf ,.dted




Light test projects with the A-31), F-IlF, and F-9F and assisted in other flight
test programs, lie then attended the Navy's General Line School at Monterey,
Calif., for 10 months and the Naval Air Intelligence School, Washington, D.C.,
for an additional 8 months. In August 1958 he was assigned to the U.S.S.
Hornet, antisubmarine aircraft carrier, as air intelligence officer. He has
accumulated more than 2,900 flying hours, including 400 in jet aircraft.
Carpenter's hobbles Include skindiving, archery, and skiing.
Leroy G. Cooper, Jr., a major in the U.S. Air Force, was born March 6, 19.Y27,
.. in Shawnee, Okla. Ile isf5 feet 9 inches tall aild weighs 150 pounds and has
blue eyes and brown hair.' Ils wife is the former Truity.Oison of Seattle, Wash.
The couple has two daughters: Camala K., anti Janita L. Ills hometown Is
Carbondale, Colo., *here he and his mother, Mrs. Leroy G. Noper, own a small
ranch. His mother Is now residing teie. Ills father, the lte Col. Leroy G.
Cooper, was retired from the Air Force in 1957 and died in Denver, Colo., in
March 1900. .- - )
Cooper attiided primary and secondary schoola-In Shawnee. lie A1so attended
secondary schools at Murray, Ky. He e4tered'the MAiritie Corps hdt1945 after
his graduation from'b igh school. Ile atte ed the Naval Academy Peparatory
School foi some monthsand., waa later a.0emberof the Presidental Honor
Guard ir n Washington until his dlsaorj e in kAgust 1946. -le attended the Unl-
versity 4 Hawaii in Honolulu i'awaiim
' for 3 years' (where he met and married
his wife). While at the Univeroity of Hiawaii, ie received a comnmissln in the
Army. Xle transfqrred this cbnipisitorm to the Air- orce and was red lied by
that ser%'Ice for extended.,activex.dtty j'j 19W) for flight' training. 4fter his
training he was a-Migned to% the 86th Fightkr omber Group in Muni ch, Ger-
imany, where he flew F-S4's litid F-86's for 4 e.. While in Muni, he at-
tended tlhe EuropearA extension f the University of MarylJand Night P'hool for
1 year. Hje attendedthe Air Force Institateqof echnolog.'at Vright.atterson
Air Force'\Bae, Ohlo,:for-2 years, WIhero he rece ved a bachelor's degie in aero-
nautical eiigimeering iii August 1956.. After his graduatoh from A NT, he was
assigned to ,the Air Force Experinientaf, Flight Test ,Kehool at Jidwards Air
Force Base, "allf. He was graiduated frimi this :schptrl in April 1957 and was
assigned duty'in the Perforinance Engineering Br'anc'h of the Fjight Test l)ivi.
sion at dEdward , lie partiilfated in t1,,. flight testing of exljWrimental fighter
aircraft, working us an aeronautical eng. .eer and a test pilot.,/
Cooper has 2,600 hours flying time, 1,600 of which are lp-jet fighters.
Ills hobbies are flying,,photography, woodwork, hunting. fishing, and boating.
John 11. Glenn, Jr., a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Marine Corps, was born
July 18, 1921, in Cambridge, Ohio. lie considers New Concord, Ohio, his perma-
nent home. He is 5 feet 101/2 inches tall, weighs 168 pounds and has green eyes
and red hair. Ills wife is the former Anna Margaret Castor, daughter of Dr.
and Mrs. 1I. W. Castor. The Glenns have two children: John David, and
Carolyn Ann. ills parents are Mr. and Mrs. John II. Glenn. The elder Mr.
Glenn Is a retired operator of a plumbing and heating business. The eider
(Glenns and Castors all live on Bioomitfleld Road in New Concord. Glenn also has
a sister, Mrs. Jean Pinkston. of Cambridge.
Glenn attended primary and high schools in Concord and attended Muskingum
College there also. Glenn entered the Naval Aviation Cadet program in March
1,42. Ile was graduated from this program and commissioned in the Marine
Corps a year later. After advanced training, lie Joined Marine Fighter Squadron
155 and spent a year flying F41T lighters in thl Marshall Islands. l)tring his
WVorld War II service Ife flew 59 combat missions. After the war, he was a
iIeIiher (of Fighter S4ltitlron 218 on north Chui patrol and had duty in Guam.
F'rmii 311ue 1918 to I in1.(,mlt, r 195-0, lie was an instructor in advanced flight train.
Ing at Corpu Christi, Tex. Glenn then attended Amphibioum Warfare School
at Quantlco. Vn. In Korea he flew 63 missions with Marine Fighter Squadrons
311 and 27 while n exchange pilot with the Air Force in F-86 Sabrejets. In
th, last 9 days of fighting In Korea, lie downed three MIG's in combat along the

Yalu River. After Korea, Glenn attended Test Pilot School at tile Naval Air
Test Center, Patuxent River, Md. After graduation, he was project officer of a
number of aircraft. He was assigned to the Fighter Design Branch of the Navy
Bureau of Aeronautics in Washington from November 1956 to April 1959, during
which time he also attended the University of Maryland. In April 1959 lie was
selected as an astronaut for Project Mercury.
Glenn has been awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on 5 occasions, and
holds the Air Medal with 18 clusters for his service during World War I1 and
Korea. In July 1957, while project officer of the F8U, he set a transcontinental
speed record from Los Angeles to New York, spanning the country In 3 hours
and 23 minutes. This was the first transcontinental flight to average supersonic
speed. lie has more than 5,100 hours of flying time, including 1,600 hours in jet
The Glenn family hobbies are boating all( water skiing.
Virgil I. Grisson, a major in the U.S. Air Force, was born April 3, 1926, in
Mitchell, Ind. lie is 5 feet 7 inches tall, weighs 150 pounds, has brown eyes and
brown hair. Mrs. Grissom is the former Betty L. Moore. They have two sons:
Scott and Mark. Grissom's parents, Mr. and Mrs. Dennis I). Grissom, live at
715 Baker Street, Mitchell. He has two brothers and a sister: Norman, of
Mitchell : Lowell, a senior at Indiana University, and Mrs. Joe Beavers, of Balti-
more, Md. Ills wife's father, Claude Moore, lives in Mitchell; her mother Is
Grissomn attended primary and high schools in Mitchell. He first entered
the Air Force in 11T44 as an aviation cadet and was dicharged In November V95.
Ile was graduated from Purdue University with a degree in mechanical engi-
neering In 19 50. He returned to aviation (adet training after his graduation
from l'urdue and received Ills wings in March 1951. Grissom joined the 75th
Fighter-Interceptor Squadron at l'resque Island, Maine. as an F-Ni( tighter pilot.
Ile flew 100 combat missionis in Korea In F-86's with the 334tlh Fighter-Inter-
ceptor Squadron. lie left Korea in June 19152 and became a jet pilot instructor
at Bryan, Tex. In August 1955 he went to the Air Force Institute of Technology
at Wright-Patterson Air Force liase, Ohio, to study aeronautical engineering.
In October 1956 lie attended the Test Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base,
Calif., and retn-ned to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in May 1957 as it test
pilot assigned to the Fighter Branich. lie has flown niore than 3,400 hours, over
2,500 it jets.
Grissom has been awarded the distinguishedd Flying Cross and Air Medal with
cluster for Service in Korea.
Ills hobbies are hunting and fishing.
Walter M. Schirra Shi-RAIt), Jr., a commanderr in the U.S. Navy, was
bo~rn March 12. 1923, in Hlackensack, N..I. lie is 5 feet 10 inches tall, weighs
170 pounds and has brown hair and brown eyes. His wife is the former
Josephine C. Fraser, of Seattle, Wash. The couple has two children: Walter IIl
and Suzanne. Mrs. Schirra is the daughter of Mrs. James L. Holloway, wife of
Admiral Holloway. ISN (retired), who was commander in chief of the North-
eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean area. Schirra's parents Mr. and Mrs.
Walter M. Schirra, reside in Honolulu, Hawaii, where the elder Schirra was a
World War I ace in the Army Air Corps. After the war, he and his wife
barnstormed throughout the eastern United States in a light plane. Schirra
also has it sister, 'Mrs. John II. Burhans, who lives in La Jolla, Calif.
Sehirra attended primary and junior high schools in Oradell, N.J. He was
graduate from Dwight Morrow Iigh School, Englewood, N.J., In 1940 and at-
tended Newark. N.J., College of Engineering 1 year. lle was graduated fromn
the U.S. Naval Academy in 1945.
Schirra has had service on board the battle cruiser .lu8Ia, on the staff of
the Seventh Fleet, flight training at Pensacola, in Navy Fighter Squadron 71. and
as an exchange pilot with the 154th U.S. Air Force Fighter Bomber Squadron.
Ho went with this squadron to K;_rea where he flew 90 combat missions in

F-84E aircraft. lie downed one Mig and has tine probable Mig. Ie took part
inl development of the Sidewinder missile at NOTS, China Lake, Calif. He
was project pilot for the F7U-3 Cutlass and instructor pilot for the Cutlass and
FJ3 Fury. He flew F311-2N Demons as operations officer of Fighter Squadron
124 on board the carrier Lexington in the Pacific. He then attended Naval Air
Safety Officer School at the University of Southern California, and had test
pilot training at the Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent, Md. His last assignment
was at Patuxent in suitability development work on the F4H. He has 3,200
hours of flying time, 2,000 in jets.
Ie has been awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross and two Air Medals
for his Korean service.
Schirra's hobbies include waterskiing, snowskiing, hunting, and sport cars.
Alan B. Shepard, Jr., a commander in the U.S. Navy, was born November
18, 1923, In East Derry, N.H. He is 5 feet 11 Inches tali, weighs 160 pounds,
has blue eyes and brown hair. Slelmrd is married to the former Louise Brewer
of Kenneth Square, Pa. The couple has two daughters; Juliana and Laura.
His parents, Col. and Mrs. Alan B. Shepard, live in East Derry where the elder
Shepard, a retired Army officer of the United States, is an insurance broker.
Shepard's sister, Mrs. Pauline S. Sherman, resides in Attleboro, Mass.
Shepard attended primary school in East Derry and was graduated from
Pinderton Academy, )erry, N.H., in 1940. lie studied 1 year at Admiral
Farragut Academy, Tois River, N.J., and then entered the Naval Academy,
Annapolis. He was graduate from Annapolis in 1944. He was graduated from
the Naval War College, Newport, R.I., in 1958.
The astronaut, saw service on the destroyer Gogswcll in the Pacific during
World War II. Ile then entered flying training at Corpus Christi, Tex., and
Pensacola, Fla. Ile received his wings In March 1947. Subsequent service was
in Fighter Squadron 42 at the Norfolk Naval Air Stations and Jacksonville,
Fla. He also served several tours aboard aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean.
Shepard went to USN Test Pilot School at Patuxent River, Md., in 1950 and
served two tours in flight test work there. During this service he took part In
high altitude test.s to obtain (itta on light at different altitudes and on a variety
of air masses over the North Amnerh(an Continent. Ile also took Iart In experi-
maients in test and( development of the Navy's inflight refueling system, carrier
suitability trials of the F2113 Banshee, and Navy trials of the first angled
carrier deck. Between his flight test tours 0t latuxent, Shiepard was assigned
to Fighter Squadron 193 at Moffett Field, Calif., a night fighter unit flying
Banshee jets. lie was operations officer of this squadron and made two tours
with It to the Western Pacific on board the carrier Oriakany. He has been
engaged in the test of the F311 Demon, F811 Crusader, F4D Skyray, and FlF
Tigercat. He was project test pilot on the F5D Skylancer. The last 5 months
at Patuxent were spent as an instructor in the Test Pilot School. After his
graduation from the Naval War College, Shepard joined the staff of the com-
lmander in chief, Atlantic Fleet, Cas aircraft readiness officer. He has 3,700
hours of flying time, 1,800 In Jets.
Shepard's hobbies are golf, iceskating, and wvaterskilng.
Donald K. Slayton, a major in the U.S. Air Force was born March 1, 1924,
in Sparta, Wis. lie Is 5 feet 10% inches tall, weighs 160 pounds and has blue
eyes and brown hair. His wife is the former Marjorie Lunney, daughter of
Mr. and Mrs. George Lunney, of Los Angeles, Calif. The Slaytons have one
son, Kent. Slayton's parents, Mr. and Mrs. Charles S. Slayton, live in Sparta.
A brother. Howard, and a sister, Mrs. Lyndal Hagen in Sparta. Slay-
ton's immediate family also includes a brother, R irclrd. of San Francisco, Calif.;
another brother, Elwood, and two sisters, Mrs. Milton Madsen and Mrs. Harold
Schluenz, all of Madison, Wis.
Slayton attended primary and high schools in S)arta, graduating from
Sparta High School in 1942. He entered the Air Force as an aviation cadet in
1942 and after instruction at Vernon, Tex., and Waco, Tex., w\'on his wings In

April 1943. He flew 56 combat missions in B-25's in Europe with the 340th
Bombardment Group (medium)t In mid-1944, he returned to this country as
a B-25 instructor pilot at Columbia, S.C., and then served with a unit check-
Ing out pilots in the A-26. He joined the 319th Bombardment Group (medium)
and went to Okinawa in April 1945, where he flew seven combat missions over
Japan. He was an instructor pilot iii B-25 aircraft for about a year after the
war. He entered the University of Minnesota in January 1947, and was grad-
uated with a degree In aeronautical engineering in August 1949. Following
his graduation from the University of Minnesota, he was an aeronautical engi-
neer with Boeing Aircraft Co. in Seattle, Wash., until recalled in early 1951
to active duty with the Minnesota Air National Guard, in which lie maintained
membership during his student days at the University of Minnesota. On his
recall, he was assigned to Minneapolis as maintenance Hight test officer of an
F-51 squadron. He then spent a year and one-half at 12th Air Force hIead-
quarters as technical inspector, and a like period as lighter pilot and mai-
tenance officer with the 36th Fighter Day Wing in Jtitburg, Germany. He re-
turned to the United States in June of 1955 and attended the Air Force Flight
Test Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. From January 1956 until
April 1959, he was an experimental test Pilot at Edwards, where he flew itiost
Jet fighter-type aircraft, built for the Air Force, and some foreign fighters. Ills
last assignment was chief of fighter test section A, lie has 3,600 flying hours,
2,200 in jets.
His hobbies are hunting, fishing, shooting, archery, and skiing.
Mr. Low. Mr. Chairman, miemiers of the committee ) it is a priileg.
to appear before you again and to present to you the following
information on the subject of astronaut qualifications.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration, for the past
few months, has been engaged in a prog.rait for the select ion of addi-
tional astronauts to add to the seven initially selected for Project
These additional astrollatits will fly as pilots or copilots il tile
Gemini project and will be available for I)roject Apollo.
The qualifications for the new astrolIa it appli('ants were deter-
mined only after lengtly consideration. There is aiinple inmtiv'ation
for a correct determination of these qualifications since, as this coin-
mittee is well aware, the success or failure of our iManned space flight
program rests, to a large degree, with the capabilities of our
The basic qualifications for thte selection of ti l new group of
astronauts are as follows:
1. Citizenship: U.S. citizen.
2. Age: Under 35 years.
3. Physical qualifications:
(a) Iteight: 6 feet or less.
(b) Physical condition: must be excellent.
4. Education: 1)egree in physical or biological sciences or in en-
5. Experience: Must have experience as a jet test pilot having at-
tained experimental flight test status throuih tle military services,
the aircraft industry or NASA, or having graduated fromn a iililitary
test pilot school. Preference will be given to I hose presently engaged
in flying high-perfornmance aircraft.

6. Pecommendatioii: Must be recommended by his present organ-
I would like to comment on the rationale for establishing these
Qualification 1, U.S. citizenship: The flight experience of the astro-
nauts is so valuable a national asset that it should be reserved at this
ime for citizens of the United States.
Qualification 22 age: Astronauts who are under 35 years of age at
(he time of selection can be used in a flying status for a considerable
period of time in order to make maximum use of their training and
flight experience.
A lower maximum age would not allow sufficient time for a rea-
sonably large group of candidates to acquire the necessary training and
Qualification 3, physical qualifications: The maximum height of 6
feet. was established to reduce the engineering problems of clear-
ances, cockpit design, egress, etc., which would result if no height
liiit was established.
Qualification 4, education: The requirement for a degree in the
)hysical or biological sciences or in engineering will assure that the
astronauts will have a background knowkdge which will:
(a) enable the astronauts to work most effectively with the en-
gineers responsible for the engineering aspects of the program;
() provide the astronauts with the foundation for additional en-
gineering and scientific training which will be given;
(c) enable the astronauts to understand how spacecraft systems
function and the basic principles of space flight.
Qualification 5, Experience: Careful examination and evaluation of
the tasks that an astronaut must perform, and the emergency situa-
tions with which he must be prepared to cope, have led to the con-
clusion that, of all existing occupations, the testing of jet aircraft
most nearly approximates the piloting of spacecraft.
All jet test pilots are selected and trained to make rapid decisions
and take immediate action based upon their own evaluation of the
sit uat ion in the presence of high personal risk.
In many ways, manned spacecraft can be considered as a next gen-
eration of very high performance jet aircraft.
Their velocity and altitude capabilities are ver great. A space-
craft has life-support systems, control systems, landing systems, power
and fuel systems, and many other similarities with high-performance
jet aircraft.
Thus, there is a logical reason for selecting jet test pilots-who have
the training and best directly applicable occupation-for the piloting
of spacecraft. In order to limit the selection to those applicants who
have demonstrated their capabilities, the further qualification that
tim, applicants be experience jet test pilots was established.
rro(ay, in our manned space flight program, we are in a similar sit-
miatiou as in the early development flights on a new aircraft.
ShEa spacecraft. differs slightly from previous ones. Procedures
are imodified and iml)roved from flight to flight. Test pilots are
t ra ined and experienced in just this type of work.

Thus, the requirement that the candidates must have attained ex-
flight test status through
the military
the aircraft
industry or NASA, or must have graduated from a military test pilot
school was established. This assures that the applicants have had
either formal training at a highly selective and rigorous test pilots'
school or have gained their flight test experience at organizations
requiring a high standard of performance .
This aso provides a preliminary screening of candidates since only
the better pilots are selected for test pilot duties.
Those engaged in flying high-performance aircraft are preferred
because they will be up to date and familiar with the current state
of the art in such things as en'irolnlental systems, escape systems,
communications procedures and personal survival equipment.
Qualification 6, recommendation by present organization: The re-
quirement for recommendation by the astronaut applicant's present
organization provides an appraisal of each applicant by his employer
and, in the case of each military pilot, signifies the willingness of the
military department concerned to assign that military pilot to duty
Mr. Chairman, this completes the list of all the qualifications we
have established for the current group of astronauts being selected.
We consider the above qualifications to be the best possible for tile
present stage of manned space flight.
These qualifications are not static, but will be reviewed from time
to time and are subject to modification as our space flight experience
Mr.ANFUSO. Could you explain further the last one? That is, who
is the employer?
Mr. Low. In the case of a civilian applicant it would be the com-
pany supervisor of the man concerned.
In the case of the military applicant it would be his squadron com-
mander or the head of the school th:t tie man is at tending.
Mr. ANFuso. Thank you.
Go ahead.
Mr. Low. Further, in the case of the military applicant, we also
have the recommendation of the service itself at, the top level of that
service. I miglt point out these qualifications are similar to those
used 31/., yeais ago in the selection of the present seven astronauts,
and I trink the gentlemen sitting at my side well demonstrate these
were good criteria.
Mr. Rmnr.-AN. In what, major areas have they changed?
Mr. Low. The age has been lowered from 40 to 35, the height has
been increased from 5 feet 11 inches to 6 feet. I believe these are the
only areas where there are significant changes.
Sir. FUiTON. [r. Chairman, for clarification, as soon as the pilot
ixconmes employed by NASA, is le then employed by NASA alone and
not by tie military nor previous employers.
Mr. Low. The military pilots thatA we have today are still employed
by their military dep)artments but they are detailed to NASA.
Mr. Fum0~)N. 'Who has the directionn and control ?
Mr. Low. NASA has the direction and control over these men for
tile t ime of their detail.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. We may get into this area, Mr. Chairman, at
greater length, but could you briefly say, or tell us, why the change
in age and height were made?
Mr. Low. The change in age was made because we believed that
the men we are selecting today will be flying not only in Gemini but
also in Apollo. The Apollo lunar landing program is a program not
scheduled for completion until the end of this decade. We felt by
taking men who are younger than those we selected initially we will
have a better assurance of having these men in flying status for a
longer period of time.
The change in height was made because our capacity for boosting
spacecraft will be somewhat better in the future, we will have more
room, larger spacecraft, and we felt we could tolerate the extra inch
in height.
Mr. ANFSO. Is the decision to take candidates from civilian em-
ploymnent something new, or is that one of your new provisions? Did
it exist before?
Mr. Low. This is a new provision and I should have pointed that
Mr. ANFuSO. Thank you.
Please proceed, Mr. Low.
Mr. Low. Using these qualifications, NASA presently is on sched-
ule in the process of selecting 5 to 10 additional astronauts. On April
18 of this year, we announced our intention to select these additional
The qualifications which I have listed above were published at that
time. Over 250 applications were received by the 1st of June dead-
line. Of these, 63 met the qualification requirements.
These 63 applicants ranged from 26 up to 35 years of age; 13 appli-
cants have completed 1 or more years of graduate work. Their total
flight time ranges from 1,000 to 7,000 hours, with jet time ranging
from less than 500 to 3,000 hours. Their flight test experience ranged
from 6 to 92 months in this type of work. A total of 58 are married,
with the number of children ranging from none to 6.
Based upon these statistics, NASA finds that the average applicant
meeting all qualifications is 33 years old, is married and has three chil-
dren, has a total of 2,500 hours of flying time of which 1,500 hours is
in jet aircraft and has been in test flying for 21/2 years.
During June the number of applicants was screened down to a total
of 32. These 32 currently are being given very thorough medical
examinations. By the fall, exhaustive evaluation of the experience
and capabilities of these 32 highly qualified candidates will result in
the final selection of 5 to 10 potential astronauts.
This completes my statement, Mr. Chairman. We are ready to
answer questions.
Mr. ANFUSO. Thank you very much, Mr. Low.
May I ask you what you think are the minimum professional qualifi-
cations for an astronaut?
Mr. Low. I believe, Mr. Chairman, that the qualifications we have set
we consider to be the minimum qualifications for this period of time.
Mr. A FUSO. Have you set any qualifications for crewmembers?
Have you given any thought to that?

Mr. Low. Yes. The term "astronaut," for Project Gemini, at least,
involves and concerns all crewmembers. Although we have not yet
firmed up all of our requirements for astronauts in Project Apollo,
we believe also that similar qualifications will be required.
Mr. AxFuso. In other words, the crewmember must be an astronaut
according to your present regulation?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir. This is because the work involved in one of these
space missions is such that each and every crewmember must be trained
to do every function in the spacecraft.
Mr. AxFuso. In your experience, and from the experience of Mr.
Shepard and Mr. Carpenter and Colonel Glenn, and other astronauts,
is it necessary that he be a test pilot?
Mr. Low. I tried to answer that, Mr. Chairman, in my statement.
Perhaps I should let one of the gentlemen with me clarify this.
Mr. ANFUSO. Colonel Glenn, what do you say ? Do you think that
an astronaut or crewmember necessarily has to be a test pilot?
Colonel GLENn. First, let. me preface my remarks by one statement.
I am not "anti" any particular group. I am just pro space.
Mr. ANFuso. That I am sure.
Colonel GLENN. Anything I say is toward the purpose of getting the
best qualified people, of whatever sex, color, creed, or anything else
they might happen to be.
Mr. ANFuso. You are not against women. You are a married man,
you have children.
Colonel GLENN. Yes.
I think there are several requirements for the program. There are
technical requirements certainly that everyone is aware of.
The demands of just understanding the space vehicle systems re-
quires a good technical background. 1t is an experimental program,
also. In that regard, you use your judgment of past events, and past
experience, of course, in applying this judgment to this new experi-
mental area.
One of the design criteria we are working on is just where the astro-
naut is an integral part, of this system, not just a passenger who goes
along for the ride, as a biological specimen. He is an integral work-
ingpa.t of it.
Scott and I have come from a couple of days of looking at some of
the future equipment, where we went into just this area.
A lot of the things we had in the past to protect human life in the
early missions, wil Ibe given over to the control of the astronaut,
where his function will not be backed up by automatic systems. The
astronaut is being designed into these systems as an integral part of
We feel that the astronaut brings several things into the program.
He brings an adaptability, certainly, in his ability to make observa-
tions that instruments and other equipment cannot make.
He also increases the reliability of the whole operation considerably
by his ability to take over, manually, and his ability to analyze.
He brings to it his judgment, and not only the judgment from his
training, but also the judgment that he brings to the program from his
past background and experience, which is at least as large or larger
than the training that he has been given.

The astronauts' function is actually then to take over full control,
to analyze, assess, and report the various things that he encounters,.
or new situations in which he finds himself. In doing this he must
perform these functions under periods of high stress, both mefitally
and physically, and observe many complex functions under these
This is an unusual position to be in. Under periods of high stress,
of, say, insertion into orbit, where you are getting up close to 18,000,
miles an hour, you are at 6 g.'s, you are observing many instruments
and trying to observe your own physical condition. I think the on-
board tapes would confirm that we were capable at that time of mak-
ing good observations.
This might be similar to the testing of high performance aircraft,
where you are at high speed and are performing piloting functions
and tracking functions with control systems. These things we have
been used to doing in the past under these very unusual conditions.
This is not to say that no one else could be trained to do it. How-
ever, the test pilot, program is built around people who continually
demonstrate the emotional, physical, and mental stability, to do this.
The test pilot program might be termed sort of a program of sur-
vival of the fittest, I guess, because I think the losses in that program,
or the types of people that are weeded out of it early, are pretty well.
To bring all this back to what type person you want, we felt that
the person who can best perform all these functions is still represented
most nearly by the test pilot background. That is the cadre of people-
we have available in this country now without a lot of special training,
and are available immediately for selection for a program of this type
more than any other single source we know of.
Mr. AN FUSO. Colonel Glenn, would you say that the psychological
adjustment of a test pilot to hazardous flight is a prime essential to
qualifying as a astronaut.
Colonel GLENN. It certainly is the same type thing. When we all
went into test flying and entered test work It had its hazardous side.
This we adjusted to at that time. Certair'ly the type adjustment we
make in going into our astronaut training and into space flights is a
similar step, probably another notch beyond the test flying experience
of adjustment.
Mfr. MILLER. Colonel, how long does it take to train a test pilot?
Colonel GLENN. Well, that is a rather difficult question.
Do you mean just to go through test pilot school?
Mr. MILLER. No. I mean for a man to qualify as a test pilot.
He has to go to school. How long does lie go to school?
Colonel GLENN. Well-
Mr. MILLER. First, lie has to qualify as a pilot.
Colonel GLENN. Yes.
Mr. MILLER. Then he goes to test pilot school. How long is that?
Colonel GLENN. Test pilot training normally is given to those
people who have ex pressed a desire to get into that type work and who
have also been highly recommended. These are competitive billets
also. In other words, getting into test pilot training in the military
services is normally a weeding out process and selection program in

School, say, is 6 months, or in some cases a year, for test pilot
Some people may go through school and still never be fully qualified
test pilots.
Mr. MuImR. I was thinking about the average.
Colonel GLENN. On the other hand, I WouTd say the average man
that goes through test pilot training, by the time he has completed,
say, another year of work in actual test work after he is out of school,
he probably is pretty well qualified and his qualifications go up cer-
tainly beyond that, but I would say he is certainly a qualified test
pilot at the end of another year, or 1 to 2 rears out of chool.
Mr. MILLER. Would you say it is a safe assumption. that it tak,%
about 2 years to train a man who is already a pilot, a man who has
to be an extraordinary person-just not the run of the mill. It
takes an average of 2 years to train him, to bring himi up to the quali-
fications of a test pilot?
Colonel GSENqN. To be a really qualified competent test pilot I
would say-it is a difficult area to assess and this is a ju( gment area-
I would say that is a fair statement for the average pers )n coming out
of school.
M r. MILLER. I had in mind, Mr. Chairman, that if w . have to take
people as astronauts who are not test pilots, and if it then takes 2
years to train them as test pilots before they can become astronauts,
this shortens the span in which they can serve as astronauts. I believe
this is important because, although we have before us 2 of the 7 who
l)ioneered in this field, and we are adding 5 or 10 new astronauts to
the group within the next several months, from now on astronauts
will be trained continuously. As this goes on we must bring people
into the program who we can expect will serve as astronauts for at
least 10 to 15 years.
While I have, like the Colonel, no prejudices, and I feel that even-
tually women will come into this field, I think perhaps at present it is
a little premature to introduce them into our manned space program
unless we could find the extraordinary one who is qualified as a test
Commander CARPENTER. I would like to add one thought.
I believe that there is nothing magic about a test pilot, although they
have had benefit of training and experience. The best reason for
selecting test pilots for this job I believe, is that they have had the
opportunity to demonstrate that they have the capabilities required
of the job by reason of the fact that they have been employed in the
past in the profession that most nearly approximates spaceflight.
Our training for astronauts really began when we began flying.
So when we came to NASA and participated in the NASA astronaut
training program, NASA was taking advantage of 10 or 12 or 15
years of experience that we already had as a group.
Our job is to get this national program on the road and do it the
best way we know how, and in this interest it seems clear to me that
we should select the best people available.
Mr. ANFUSO. Let me finish a few questions.
Commander Carpenter, what do you find to be the strong attraction
to becoming a test pilot? Why does a pilot want to become a test

Is it for professional advancement?
Commander CARPENTER. No, sir. I think part of it is curiosity,
part of it is a need to do something on your own, something new.
After you have had a period of duty with the fleet, or with. operat-
ing squadrons, you see new or better ways of doing things. You
would like to give what you can to this program, and to get into the
Very beginning of the utilization of an airplane is a very good way
to contribute of yourself to making the service better and the airplanes
Mr. ANFUSO. How do you view that, Colonel Glenn?
Colonel GLENN. The same. I have been asked that question before,.
I have thought about it quite a bit-as to why we volunteer for some-
thing like that.
I might turn this around and ask the gentlemen on the committee
why, when most of them had very fine business or law practices at
home, why they aspired to the high offices they now hold.
I think that, to be very philosophical for a moment, I think we
all aspire to the top of the heap in our particular professions because
it fives us most control over the future, which is unknown to us.
ff you have respect, or have achieved eminence in a certain field,
your future is more secure to you than it would be otherwise.
Maybe this gets beyond philosophy, but this is at least what I have
reconciled. to be one of the factors in my own mind as to why any
of us aspire to a higher spot on the heap when we are very com-
fortable in the present surroundings, this desire to contribute, to use
our experience, certainly goes into this same thing.
If you can see, in air combat, that certain things are needed, and you
know your experience can be put to use in designing or testing so.
people in the future in squadrons will be better prepared and better-
equipped than you were when y.ou went out, certainly you want to see
these things get put in the new airplanes.
Mr. ANFUSO. Colonel Glenn, from your experience-by the way, are
you an engineer?
Colonel GLENN. Not a graduate engineer, no, sir. I was taking-
engineering in college.
Mr. ANFUSO. You have engineering experience?
Colonel GLENN. Yes, sir.
Mr. AwFuso. From your experience in flying around the earth,
do you think that your engineering experience was a necessity?
Colonel GLENN. 01h, yes, sir. I think more than just actually being
in orbit, but prior to flight, to fully understand all the systems, to
work in the design areas that we worked in, in helping ferret out
troubles with the systems, in being able to analyze these in flight and
make the best contribution following the flight, you do need an
engineering background.
Mr. AWFrrso. Do you feel the same way, Commander?
Commander CARPiENTER. Not exactly.
Mr. ANFtTSO. I am glad to note a difference.
Commander CARPENTER. We will fight later. [Laughter.]
I feel that it does need a man with an engineering bent, and if it
is a good one, he will have demonstrated this a long time ago by
following this bent through an engineering school---,-
Mr. ANyuso. You said a "man. Don't you mean a "person"?

Commander CARPENTER. I stand corrected.
His talent for the mechanical sciences will have led him to an engi-
neering education long before.
Mr. ANFSO. Are you an engineer?
Commander CARPENTER. Yes, sir, I am now a graduate engineer.
. Mr. ANFuSO. To get back to you, Mr. Low, these qualifications that
NASA has set out apply to women as well as men, do they not?
Mfr. Low. Yes, sir, the qualifications were not set to exclude anyone.
Mr. ANFUSO. I want to get that point clear.
In other words, if women can qualify under those standards, they
ean be taken?
As a matter of fact, have you not chosen two women trainees?
Mr. Low. No, sir.
Mr. ANFuso. I don't know where I got that from but I thought
it was so. For the management program, was it not, that you selected
two women?
Mr. Low. I am not aware of this.
Mr. ANFUSO. All right. We won't press it.
Now, let me ask you this: At the present time, do any of the women
candidates that we know of meet these qualifications?
Mr. Low. Mr. Chairman, we had several applications from potential
women candidates in this last, group of applications.
Mr. ANrFUSO. How many?
Mr. Low. About half it dozen out of the 250 who applied. None of
them met all of the qualifications.
As a matter of fact, I don't think any of them were jet test pilots,
several of them did not have the educational requirements, another
was too old, and one, I believe, was not a U.S. citizen.
Mr. ANFUSO. Prior to these new regulations, of course, women could
not qualify because they had to be in some military outfit, is that
correct. But now you have changed that, changed that so that civilians
can become astronauts; is that correct?
Mfr. Low. That is correct.
Mr. ANFUSO. And women can become test pilots, they can be trained
as test pilots. Miss Cochran, for example, is a test pilot'?
Mr. Low. Yes, Miss Cochran is an outstanding example.
Mr. ANiFVso. How many women test pilots would you say we have?
Mr. Low. I cannot answer that question. Miss Cochran, Mr. Chair-
man, is the only woman test pilot that I know of.
Mr. ANFuSO. This will be my final question for the moment.
Is NASA opposed to carrying on a parallel program that would
not interfere with the present program-and nobody wants to inter-
fere with that-I don't think any of the women that testified want to
interfere with that program-is NASA also studying a possible
parallel program to train more women as test pilots and to become
future crewmembers? Is any study being given to that?
Obviously we don't want to rule out the future of women in space,
do we?
Mr. Low. No, sir, and we are certainly not opposed to anything like
that, in the future, Mr. Chairman.
On the other hand, as Colonel Glenn and Commander Carpenter
pointedd out, we have at this time a large pool of men who have gone

through a preselection process by virtue of having become experienced
test pilots.
We know, and we have demonstrated, these men can and will per-
form efficiently in space.
Also, let me make another point here: We don't foresee in the near
future-talking about the next 5 or 10 years now-the need, at any
given time, for more than perhaps 40 or 50 space pilots in the NASA
program. We see, therefore, at this time, no need to broaden out the
available pool of people that we could use as test pilots.
We, therefore, have no plans for an immediate program, to start
a major training program for space pilots, be they men or women.
Mr. ANruso. Would the fact that the Russians are training women
alter your ol)inion in this regard?
Mr. Low. I don't know for a fact whether or not they are training
women. I don't think it would at this time, Mr. Chairman, because
we (1o have this large pool of qualified people that we can draw on
for our present piloting needs.
One more point. As we testified before this committee during our
authorization hearings, the equipment available for training pilots
for our flights, the centrifuges, the vacuum chambers, all of this
equipment is very much loaded up at the present time.
Mr. ANFUso. That is the best point you have made. In other words,
you are not objecting to women, but at the present time, to let them
use the things that you are using now for the astronauts, would be
interfering with that program.
Mr. Low. We would be interfering with the current program.
Mlr. A.Fuso. All right. That I can see. In the future, when that
relaxes, and when more equipment becomes available, you think you
will give consideration to it?
Mr. Low. Then I think we should certainly look into this problem.
M[r. ANFUSO. We do not want to leave out the women.
Mr. Low. No, sir; I certainly don't.
Mr. A NFUso. Let me ask you this question:
If it should be desirable in the future for the United States to place
in space together an American and, say, an English astronaut, would
you then rule out this question of citizenship, or would that be done
by bilateral agreement?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir; this is an agreement that would have to be
Mr. ANFUSO.. Internationalagreement..
Mr. K1CARTII. Pursuing qualification No. 5, which is the one involving
experience of test pilot training, yesterday two of the witnesses spoke
very strongly about this qualifcation. They felt., quite frankly, that
an extensive number of logged hours in actual flight compensated for
all of the variables or invatriables and the emergencies that one might
meet as a test, pilot. Therefore the test pilot requirement was not a
fair one, because it ruled out too many peo ple who normally get this
training if they had logged a great number of flying hours.
Would you care to a(l(1 ress yourselves to that?
Mr. Low. I will briefly comment on that.
I think I will have to disagree with the statements made yesterday
on this point.

The type of emergency situation that test pilots get into daily in
their own flying experience is not matched by the piloting community
as a whole.
It is true that other pilots also get into stressful situations, but not
as often or as frequently as these men do-as the experimental test
pilots do.
These men have demonstrated repeatedly upder actual stressful
situations that t iey can cope with these situations; Glenn and Car-
penter in their flights, and Shepard and Grissom in theirs also, demon-
strated time and again that this kind of training is what allowed them
to make the flights.
We all know that in John's flight., he had trouble with his automatic
control system.
He had to assess the difficulties and then calmly go on the manual
system and use it, and use it effectively, under trying conditions.
I am also sure that the decision to leave the retropack on in John's
flight, would have really upset almost anyone, man or woman, that did
not have the kind of training that these men have had.
Mr. KARTII. This was, in my opinion, the crux of the testimony yes-
terday. I wonder if the two astronauts would like to address them-
selves and give me their opinion.
Commander Carpenter, would you care to remark on that aspect
of the testimony that we received yesterday?
Commander CARPENTER. Yes, sir.
I feel that this analogy may be valid. A person can't enter a back-
stroke swimming race and by swimming twice the distance in a crawl
(ualify as a backstroker.
I believe there is the same difficulty in the type of aviation experi-
ence that 35,000 hours provides a civilian pilot and the experience a
military test pilot receives.
Mr. KARTI. So you would agree with the statement that was made
yesterday ?
Commander CARPENTER. No. I apparently did not make myself
I feel that the preponderance of hours received in normal civilian
flying does not compensate for lack of military jet test flying.
I also believe that maybe we should reevaluate our goal in this
Is it to put an American on the moon in the best and in the safest
manner, or is it to put a woman on the moon in the safest manner,
or should we limit it to just putting a man on the moon?
It is quite apparent to me that if it is just to put a man on the
moon, an American man on the moon, then we must take the best
American available and we can get this type of man from the group
that we have selected here test pilots.
Mr. KARTH. Colonel Glenn.
Colonel GLENNr. Long experience certainly is good, but I do not
see that these are apples and peaches here. We want long experience
and we want the test fly i, g background too.
I think there are many things learned from the long experience cer-
tainly that are good.
I think you earn these same things, and more, a lot faster in a test
program and come out with a better qualified person at a younger
age than by any other means I know Qf that is available.

To say that a person can float around in light planes or transports
for-I don't care how many thousands of hours, you name-and run
into the same type emergencies that he is asked to cope with in just
a normal 6-month or 1-year tour in test flying is not being realistic.
They are a different type operation completely, dealing wi th different
types of equipment andpeople, and it is just not the same type flying.
There is a lot to be gained by long experience, I am certainly not
knocking that, and you run into many emergencies, but by and large
they are not the same type.
I am surprised that maybe we are not taking the other tack. Instead
of trying to reduce our qualifications to a lower level than we have
insisted on so far, perhaps we should be upping the qualifications and
saying we have to have test pilots with doctorate degrees and with
even more experience than we have had to date so far.
We are just trying to maintain the highest standards we can
possibly maintain.
If I am on a space mission and I have someone with me, I want the
highest qualified person I can over there, whether it is a wom n-
without regard to color, race, creed or whatever it is, if that person, or
glob, whatever you want to term it, on the other side is better able
to take care of the job, that that seat was designed to take care of, I
could not care less who is ever there, and that is all we are trying
to do with this type of selection.
Mr. KArM-. Thank you very much. One last question of Mr. Low.
How many commercial or private airlines test pilots are there in the
United States today?
Mr. Low. I do not know, sir.
Mr. KARTH. Could you try to make an evaluation of this question
and put it in the record?
Mr. Low. Yes.
(The material requested is as follows:)
There are no commercial or private airline pilots who qualify as "test pilots"
in the sense used in these hearings. Information furnished by the Society of
Experimental Test Pilots and the Aerospace Industry Association of America,
Inc., Indicates that approximately 125 civilians could qualify as current, ex-
perimental test pilots, qualified in Jets. Of these, 65 are employed by the
Federal Aviation Agency or the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
and the remainder in the aerospace industry.
Mr. ANyuso. Mr. Fulton.
Mr. Fu LoN. I disagree basically on your approach, because I be-
lieve that space is not an experiment or adventure. I think it is a
new area where everybody will operate.
Under those circumstances, when women are paying the taxes here,
as much or more than the men, I don't think they should be kept out
of space because of rigid requirements.
For example, on the basis of the requirements that Mr. Low has
stated, obviously Colonel Glenn would have been eliminated.
You wouldn't have passed, because you don't have an engineering
degree--do you?
Colonel GLENN. I have one now. I did not at the time of selection.
Mr. FULTON. You would not have been selected.
So we can't look at these methods of selection and requirements as
rigid. They must be variable, to get various characteristics.
Wouldn't you agree with that?

Colonel GLENN. To back up just one moment, my background at
the time of the original selection, I believe, was gone into, and if you
will note, when NASA has relaxed anything previously on the original
selection program it was an engineering degree or the equivalency
Mr. FuLroN. I am crlad you said that.
Colonel GLENN. Mine was the equivalency thereof, and it was felt,
with my inservice experience and the schools 1 had been to, while
I did not have the actual hours at college, I had more than the
equivalency of an engineering degree.
Mr. FULTON. If a woman then, through her experience, and her
flight experience, can give the equivalent capabilities and character-
istics for a good astronaut, she should not, be rejected because of a
requirement which she is unable to fulfill. In this country a woman
is not allowed to fly in the latest jet supersonic equipment. The
women are not. in the military serices.
Secondly, your test pilot schools are military; aren't they?
Colonel GLENN. Yes, sir.
Mr. FULTON. So she is automatically excluded unless we eliminate
the new rule you and I are speaking about.
Another thing is this:
I believe that the United States should adopt a program of the first
woman in space. We should set that as a national goal.
I think for the world it would be a tremendous step forward. While
we do have this plan which calls for a race to the moon within this
decade, nevertheless I feel that in a program this broad, billions
being spent, we should have a first woman in space program, and
should state it as a national goal, probably at the highest level, and I
would hope that President Kennedy wonld state such a program.
Would you agree?
Colonel GENN. I think this is a little out of my province, sir.
I am not qualified to judge what national goals we should have in
this regard, sir.
I am trying to work on this particular project and work with people
that I feel are best qualified for the goals we have set up for us. If we
are to establish other goals and other criteria, obviously we would
probably change ovi" selection criteria.
Mr. FULTON. You are here as an expert and as a taxpayer, not just
as an astronaut.
Colonel GLENN. Not as an expert on national objectives, sir.
Mr. ANFUSO. Will the gentleman yield?
I don't think it is fair to ask any of the astronauts that, question.
Mr. FuiroN. I don't want them to shy away from any question.
Mr. ANFUSo. I think you might ask that question of NASA, as to
what they think should be their future goal.
Mr. FULTON. I thought I would get a better reception from one of
the astronauts.
Mr. ANFUSO. I think you should ask Mr. Low.
Mr. FULTON. I ask Mr. Low.
Mr. Low. I feel, Mr. Chairman, that you gentlemen of the commit-
tee are much better qualified than any of us here to advise us on what
the national goal should be.

T h

Mr. FULrON. You would not object to that as a national goal-first
woman ill spacel)rogrinl ?
Mr. Low. I don't believe, Mr. Fulton, that I am wise enough to
state what our national goals should be.
Mr. FULTON. Come, come. Ilow about Commander Car center?
CommanderI (Xxmu Vm.CA N'R. I think maybe the quest ionl wo]d better be,
When should we (do this? I disagree with you that this is only a new
area that we will all soon travel in. I think at this time it, is definite-
lv an experimen t. There are many unknowns anid it is important
tor us to eliminate as maly of tlese unknowns before the flights take
place as is possible.
Mr. F1T'roN. Yes, )lt, you see, doesn't, that lead you into the old
question of protecting women? And to me it sou(ls as if we are
going to protect w'oniell in the kitchen, on the ground and in the home.
We (10 not, want theni to get out where fiings are exciting, or have ad-
venture, where there might be risks.
Commander CARmEN'rEi. No, I believe it, is protecting our program.
Mr. FTLTON. Against women?
Commander CAIIRPENTR. No, sir; not against women.
Mr. ANFuSO. If the gentleman will yield. Wouldn't you say, Com-
mander Carpenter, that you are protecting women by letting men do
the daring first, and when the trip to the moon, or any place else, be-
comes less hazardous, then we would take the other position; is that
your point?
(oimmander CARPENTEr. No, sir, Mr. chairmann. My point is,
again, that it. is 1 believe prudent for us at this time to select people
who have demonstrated the best qualifications that we can find.
I believe that at this time we can't finld this type of wo'oman.
Mr. Fv1
'roN. Jacqueline Cochran liolds more aviation and speed
r'eords than any living lhman being, and everybody admits lbr quali-
fications as a jet. p
Secondly, in 1959 there were the Iovelaee Foundation tests at Al-
buquerque, N. Mex., 75 physical tests were completed in February
1900 b)y Miss Jerrie Cobb.' Miss Cobb and this 12-womnian group
l)Issd these tests.
Then AM iss Cobb underwent. the 2-week series of tests at the U.S.
Navy School of Aviation Medicine in Pensacola in April 1961, and
Then Nwlat| happened?
Inl llay of 19R Administrator James E. Webb names Miss Cobb a
NASA (onsultant. So she holds it position and says what is to be
done it, is not. allowed to do it. She is not allowed to participate.
Now. my feeling is this. Since this group of women has passed
tliese tests successfully, NASA should outline a training program that
doeLs not interfere with t e current programs but i 11 let women
If I could finish with this, Mr. Chairman: It. is the same old thing
cropping up, where men want to protect women and keep them out
,of the field so that it is kept for men.
Yesterday, I pointed out that Molly Pitcher in the Battle of Mon-
mouth in New Jersey, when her husband, John Hays, collapsed from
exhaustion, fired his cannon from there on.

Let me tell you, don't underestimate the action of Queen Elizabeth
when she took over the control of the strategic oceans of the world
and beat the men in 1588, July 20, when the Spanish Armada attacked.
Likewise, if you look in our country's history, we should not over-
look the Lewis and Clark expedition, when an Indian woman named
Socajawea led the expedition. She was the guide and opened the
Northwest for us.
Cortez was led by a woman, Malinche, that guided that expedition
through Mexico.
I can bring up many instances where we, the men, failed.
The thing I am pointing out is this. With regard to the statement
that Col. John Glenn made, on emotional, physical, and mental sta-
bility, I believe that we can't say that women will not pass those tests.
Don't you think they could pass those tests just as well as men?
Colonel GLENN. Oh, yes, sir. [Laughter.]
Mr. FULTON. If they pass the test, waive the engineering degree,
women have the same emotional, physical, and mental stability.
Colonel GLENN. We are not saying all women have this, sir.
Mr. FULTON. You are not saying all men have it either.
Colonel GLENN. No. We are drawing from a cadre of men who
have demonstrated they have this.
Mr. FULTON. When you go to the moon you would want a scientist
or astronomer along. Why wouldn't, a woman be good company on a
trip to the moon?
Colonel GLENN. I am not looking for company, 'Mr. Congressman.
I am looking for the best qualified person to do the job at hand.
Mr. FULTON. You must remember that Ham made a successful trip
too. Hiam was able to. I think a woman could do better than Ham.
Colonel GLENN. That is not a fair comparison, sir, with all due
The missions that these people are being selected for, Ham is not
qualified either.
I would like to point out too that, with all due respect to the women
that you mentioned in all of these historic events, where they per-
formed so fine, they rose to the occasion and demonstrated that at the
time they had better qualifications than the men around them, and if
we can find any women that demonstrate that they have better qualifi-
cations for going into a program than we have going into that pro-
gram, we would welcome them with open arms. [Laughter.]
For the purposes of my going home this afternoon, I think that
should be stricken from the record.
Mr. ANFtso. I think we will let the record stand, Colonel.
Mr. FUL'rON. Mr. Low, couldn't we through NASA have the capabil-
ities, and secondly, the physical assets and the test ability so that dur-
ing this coming year, when we are making a great expansion of $2
billion over the last year, in the NASA program, we could include
women in the training programs, looking toward operational work
within the near future and that is not just engineers which I think is
too narrow, because I think we need astronomers, biologists, experts in
live sciences, geologists, and why can't the women, wit i their trenen-
dous abilities, help us on that?
To me it just seems arbitrary at this point to shunt them aside and
say, "You are a consultant."

Mr. Low. We are at this time selecting astronaut candidates only
for Project Gemini, although we would expect these people to fly even
beyond Gemini.
We will go through another selection process in the not too distant
future for I roject Apollo, as I mentioned earlier.
All of our qualifications for that program are not yet set and we
will certainly take all of your comments here under full consideration
as we set those qualifications.
Mr. FULTON. Don't you think the age qualification for women should
be completely eliminated? Seriously.
Mr. ANFUSO. You don't. want a 50- or 60-year-old woman to become
an astronaut.
Mr. Fui:roN. I volunteered to go with Glenn.
Mr. ANFUSO. After all, you are a bachelor. Maybe you would like
to go out of this world.
Mr. FULTON. I am serious. Don't you think that because women
group averages are a little older thal the 35, that you should then
case up on the age qualifications when they are completely competent?
Mr. Iow. Mr. Fulton, I agree that, age as measured by a calendar
may not be a very fair criterion. On the other hand, at this time, and
for this selection, the best advice we could get, medical and otherwise,
tells us that as people get older there is a greater chance of them either
having to drop out during the training program, or even becoming in-
capacitated during flight.
We, therefore, set these criteria for the present selection. We will
again examine them for the next selection.
Mr. ANFUsO. Isn't it a fact that you also have an age limit on test
.Mr. Lov. I don't know. Dr. George Knauf is with us today. Per-
haps he knows the answers.
Dr. KNAUF. I don't know of any age limit.
Mr. ANFUSO. I wish you would look into that.
Mr. Low. 1 will.
Mr. FuLTON. I was at the Edwards Air Force Base and saw the
X-15 pilots.
Why aren't they automatically astronaut candidates and pilots?
Mr. Low. The X-15 pilots?
Mr. FULTON. All of them now.
Mr. Low. They were given a chance to volunteer in this current se-
lection. Some of them undoubtedly felt that the job they are doing
today on the X-15 program is more important than entering the train-
ing program for future flights.
Others )erhal)s felt they would not want to volunteer for personal
Mr. FULTON. In conclusion may I compliment Col. John Glenn and
Commander Carpenter.
We as Americans are very proud of you and the wonderful job you
have done, as well as the other astronauts. And I want to tell you, ol.
John Glenn is a stellar witness before a congressional committee.
You are excellent.
Colonel GLENN. Thank you sir.
Mr. ANFUSO. Gentlemen, I believe it necessary to set this testimony
straight, for the record; as far as it has gone. According to your
new regulations, there is absolutely no discrimination against women.

Mr. Low. That is correct.
Mr. ANFUSO. If women can meet those conditions you have set out,
then they will qualify.
Mr. Low. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFUso. And you have set up these regulations, I gather, first
of all, to achieve success in this program, because you want the best?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFuso. As Colonel Glenn said, whether they be women or men
is immaterial, but you want the best.
Mr. Low. Yes sir
Mr. ANPuSO. o that we can advance in this program ?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFuso. Now, of course, I assume also that you are taking into
consideration the question of safety.
Now, there is a lot of talk about women astronauts. I am in favor
of women. I am certainly in favor of giving them every opportu-
nity-and they are getting it at this hearing.
I will push and fight to see that the opportunity in spaceflight will
be given to them.
But I am sure that if we had lower standards than those that you
have outlined, it might be dangerous. I think the loss of prestige in
losing a woman in space would certainly be something that we would
hear about.
So let us not be too hasty in changing those regulations.
But I will say, and I will urge NASA, and I am sure the committee
will too, that they carry on some kind of a parallel program, without
interfering with your present program, to give these women a chance
to someday become test pilots.
I think the military test pilots school should be opened to them.
They should be permitted to take those tests.
They should he permi tted to be trained as test pilots-because there
is a potential cadre of good pilots.
Miss Cochran and Miss Cobb and Mrs. Hart are wonderful
So you have to take this in mind.
Mr. Low. Yes, sir.
Mr. ANFTUso. You say, perhaps, in your next regulations you will
come up with something which will include women; is that correct?
Mr. Low. We will certainly consider all possible qualifications and
reconsider them.
Mr. RIEHLM AN. Will you yield?
Mr. ANFUSO. Yes.
Mr. RIFIILMAN. I think Mr. Low made the statement that when they
consider the Apollo project they will take another look at the quali-
fications of people.
Mr. Low. Yes, sir.
Mr. R IEHLMAN. You do have an idea you will be less stringent in
these qualifications for the Apollo project than you have been for the
Mr. Low. Colonel Glenn pointed out perhaps we would have to be
more stringent, but at this time we have not set the qualifications for
the Apollo program and will take another very hard look at it before
we set those qualifications.

Mr. RIEILMIAN. That is the point I want to make.
Tblere will not be any letdown, Mr. Chairman, to include people less
Mr. ANFUSO. May I make myself clear. I don't expect a letdown in
regulations, but I insist that NASA consider a parallel program,
where you would not have to have such stringent regulations.
For example, a training program for future passengers, future navi-
gators. Certainly women could qualify for that.
I am not saying for the Apollo project, but for any future project.
We must look ahead 10 years perhaps. And if we do the thinking
now and act upon these things now we will save many years in the
future. That is what I have in mind.
Mr. FULTON. Mr. Chairman, why not have a "first woman in space"
project and get started on it right away?
Mr. ANFUSO. I see no objection to that, Mr. Fulton.
Let me ask these questions and I will recognize Mr. Roudebush.
Mr. Low, do you think that because of the shortage of trained,
talented, and experienced people in many phases of space work an
effort should be made to eliminate discrimination against women in
these shortage areas, such as aerospace engineering, for example, in
order to increase the available present and future work forces?
That is, giving them a new opportunity.
Mr. Low. I don't believe, Mr. Chairman, that there is any discrim-
ination against women in aerospace engineering. I personally went
to a school that had, until shortly before I started there been con-
sidered a man's school-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.
At the time I was there, which was in the forties, there were a
number of women engineering candidates who graduated and who are
now working in the industry. I think it is perhaps the lack of interest
on the part of the average woman that leads us to the fact that there
are few women engineers, but there are some and very competent
Mr. ANFUSO. I am glad you answered the way you did, because this
question was given to me by a woman who thought there was that
This same woman also thought perhaps we ought to have something
in employment, an equal employment opportunity clause, in the NASA
contracts with commercial vendors. Do you have such a clause?
Mr. Low. May I point something out here, that was just shown
to me? We have now in NASA a total of 146 women who are clas-
sified as professional aerospace technologists. These are engineers.
Another 77 women who are professional mathematicians. These
women are working in NASA along with the engineers in a profes-
sional capacity.
Mr. ANFUSO. I think the women of America should know that there
is a definite place for women in the space program.
Mr. Low. And one more point, the director of our space astronomy
program, Dr. Nancy Roman, foremost expert in her field, is of course
a woman.
Mr. Axruso. I was referring to the release from NASA dated
July 15, 1962, where you selected among nine college graduates two
women, Miss Cunningham, of Virginia, and Miss Elliott, in one of
your intern training programs.

Mr. Low. This is probably part of our management intern pro-
gram, a program to train people who work in all areas of NASA.
Mr. ANFUSO. Mr. Roush.
Mr. ROUSH. Mr. Low, wouldn't the establishment of a national goal
at this time to be the first Nation to put a woman in space interfere
with our present program?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir, absolutely.
Mr. Rorsx. It would mean the lowering of the criteria and a chang-
ing of programing, which would slow down our present space pro-
gram, would it not ?
Mr. Low. It would slow it down in that all of the resources that
we have available-and I can only speak for the manned space flight
program now-are required for projects Gemini and Apollo.
If we diverted some of these resources, both financial and per-
sonnel, to another program, we would necessarily have to slow down
our national goal of landing a man on the moon before the end of
this decade.
Mr. RousH. Thank you. I would like to go to your qualification
No. 4, and ask if in the qualifications set up for our present seven
astronauts you included the requirement for a degree in physical or
biological sciences or in engineering?
Was the requirement of a degree in physical or biological sciences
included in your previous requirement?
Mr. Low. As I recall, the qualification at that time was a bachelor's
degree or the equivalent. I don't recall that we stated it must be
in engineering. I will have to look that up.
Mr. Rousn. Do any of your seven astronauts have degrees in the
physical or biological sciences?
Mr. Low. I believe they are all engineers by profession.
Mr. Rousii. Could you tell the committee, of the 32 you have
screened down to at the present time, how many of those individuals
have degrees in engineering and how many in the physical and
biological sciences?
Mr. Low. No, sir, I do not have any details on those 32.
Mr. Rousii. The point, of my question is, are we making any attempt
to find people who can use this type of knowledge when we land on
the moon, not just people who can pilot the spacecraft, but people
whose knowledge will be available and will be useful to us in other
Mr. Low. Yes, sir; we are making this attempt even in this selection,
and this is why we specifically stated that a degree in the physical or
biological sciences would qualify a mani as a candidate.
WVo will most certainly look into this even further in the Apollo
31r. Rousit. In the Apollo selection, is there any plan or design to
use, say, an astronomer on this trip to the moon, or people in the other
sciences other than your pilots?
Mr. Low. As I mentioned before, we have not yet set the criteria or
the qualifications for the A o )0110 selection.
I think all of us here fee very strongly that people with the kind of
background of John Glenn and Scott Carpenter will still be needed
in at least the early Apollo flights; but this does not mean that we
cannot find people who have both the excellent flying experience and

in addition to that a background in geology or astronomy, a back-
ground which can be brought out even further during the training
I think if we examine what makes a good scientist, it is a man who
has an inquisitive mind. All of our astronauts with additional train-
ing certainly could qualify as outstanding in any other scientific field.
Mr. ANUSO. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Rousii. Yes.
Mr. ANFUSO. The age limit you have specified in your new regula-
tion does not apply to the present astronauts, does it?
Mr. Low. No, sir.
Mr. AN cuso. You have rot yet set up any retirement age for astro-
Mr. Low. No, sir; and we do not plan to.
Mr. RousH. I have one final question.
Mr. Low, I was somewhat disturbed that your final selection of new
astronauts would result in the selection of only 5 to 10 potential astro-
nauts. This seemed to me to be a rather low figure. Do you have
plans to periodically bring new astronauts into the program, and
do you have a goal as to how many will be involved in the program, say
2 years from now or 5 years from now or 10 years from now?
Mr. Low. We do not yet have such a goal firmly established. Our
estimates are that within this decade we will certainly need 40 to 50.
We are only taking a relatively small number at this time, for two rea-
sons: First, these men will fairly severely tax the available training
facilities; but perhaps even more important, we would like to train
only men who will be flying within a reasonable period of time.
We feel the training program is of a finite length. We don't want
to take people away from their relatively important jobs and then
have them just sit around in NASA and not have a job to do.
This is why we are phasing them in 5 to 10 at a time, until we
have the full number that will eventually be required in Apollo.
Mr. Rorsnr. Do you know when you will undertake your search for
the next 5 or 10?
Mr. Low. Not yet.
Air. Rousn. That is all.
Mr. RMHLMAN. Mr. Low, following the question by my colleague,
Mr. Roush, in respect to the criteria set down for these people that
you are going to be taking a look at in the future, there is nothing
in there that would eliminate women from qualifying, is there?
Mr. Low. Since we do not have these criteria yet, the answer is in
the affirmative.
Mr. RTEHLMAN. He was asking about people that might be'ac-
companying a trip to the moon with all qualifications other than of
a test pilot or an astronaut completely qualified.
Mr. Low. There is nothing in the present criteria, nor will there
be anything in the future criteria stated to eliminate women from
Mr. RIEIHMAN. To go back to the qualifications,
and once .and
for all settle this problem about women astronauts, the qualifications
set down at the present time and those that you are looking to in the
future, certainly are not going to permit a lady to be included in one
of these programs.

Mr. Low. The present qualifications are such that there appear to
be no women who are qualified in the program.
Mr. RIEIHLBIAW. Until you change these qualifications there is no
possibility of a lady becoming an astronaut?
Mr. Low. That is correct.
Mr. R1EILMAN. As Colonel Glenn and Commander Carpenter?
Mr. Low. That is right.
Mr. RIEIILMAN. One other question and I am finished.
I think yesterday in the testimony before our committee this group
of, I think, 10 or 12 or 13 women, had gone through certain tests.
Then, as I understand it, they were planning to continue this pro-
gram of tests, which the two gentlemen here today have gone through,
but at one point they were cut off.
I think it would be helpful if we knew why. I think I know the
answer, I think it was given today, that if the women who are trying
to qualify for astronauts had been given their permnissionz then you
would have had to have set aside the testing that was going on for
the regular astronauts because of the lack of a separate program; am
I correct in that?
Mr. Low. Let me add to that, Mr. Riehliman. The tests to be given
to these women were not to be given by NASA; they were going to
be given by one of the military services.
The commitment to give those tests had been made by that service.
NASA was asked only later whether or not we had a requirement
ourselves for such tests. At that time the answer was "No," NASA
did not have a requirement for women astronauts.
That was the only time when we were asked about this program.
We were asked only that one question, and our answer was that we
had no requirement.
M r. RIEILMAN. Do you have any idea why the tests were cut off?
Mr. Low. No, sir; I think the military would have to answer that.
Colonel GLENN. I would like to add on this physical examination
program-the program run out there for some of the. women at Albu-
querque: I think sometimes in the papers and magazines the 'writeups
on this have been a little misleading-at least I felt they were.
I think the tests mainly are run to see if there is anything wrong
with a person physically. It isn't that it qualifies anybody for any-
It just shows that they are a good healthy person.
These things are such a minimum thing, I think it, has been over-
emphasized in magazines and in newspapers--a if once' they had
passed the physical examination they were automatically astronauts.
A real crude analogy might be: We have the Washington Redskins
football team. My mother could probably pass the physical exam that
they give preseason for the Redskins, but I doubt if she could play
too many games for them.
Mrs. Winus. You picked a bad team. Maybe sle could. [Laughter.]
Mr. IIEIIL31AN. That is all.
Mr. AN.uso. Mr. Hechler.
Mr. HEcULm. I would like to ask the astronauts and Mr. Low this
When you are planning ahead for manned space missions, even
beyond Apollo, would there be any advantage in having a rather large

group that starts fairly early, say in their late teens, maybe several
thousands, that express a motivation, and then go through a training
and testing course as the facilities and equipment become available?
Then perhaps you could utilize those who don't meet your superior
standards for other missions in the space program as it expands and
develops and becomes more complicated.
Colonel GLENN. This has been discussed at times and I think has a
lot of merit, for the future.
It does two things, really.
The broadest base you can possibly draw from this selecting quali-
fied people means that you come out at the top up here [indicating]
with the superior group that you want, you hope.
So the more people that become interested in the space program,
instead of lowering our criteria for selection, we probably may be able
to be more selective, and, as I say, perhaps select people not only who
have test-pilot training but have doctorates in a specific type of engi-
So the broadest base from a group as you suggest, is really excellent.
This would give us a trained group to draw from. In addition it would
take care of one other problem we are all faced with, that is just the
lack of engineering talent and capable people in this field, and people,
as you say, who did not qualify, could then go into the outlets of
activity in engineering or project management that are in critically
low supply at the present time.
I think there is a lot of merit to what you suggest.
Mr. HECHLER. As the group develops, I suppose there is a point
toward training to what is specifically needed.
Commander CARPENTER. I think this program exists now. It is
just not sponsored by NASA.
I don't know that there is a need to have it nationally sponsored.
Anyone with the ambition can find the education he could be given
under a program sponsored by NASA.
Colonel GLENN. What you are speaking of would be analogous to
the National Science Academy that has been proposed from time to
Perhaps if that was put into effect something like this can be an
outgrowth of that Academy.
Mr. HEciuLER. Yes. Mr. Low, would you care to comment on that?
Mr. Low. I think John and Scott have stated all that I would say
on the question.
Mr. HECHLER. Thank you.
Mr. ANFuso. Mrs. Weis.
Mrs. WEIS. My understanding from the testimony yesterday was
that since NASA had no requirement, those additional tests were
called off 2 days before they were scheduled to go on, that the armed
services involved were willing to do it but when NASA stated there
was no requirement, that was the end; is that true?
Mr. Low. I believe that is true. On the other hand, we had not
requested the tests in the first place, and I am not aware, at least, why
they were scheduled or why they were canceled.
We were asked whether we had a requirement, and the answer was

Mrs. WEIs. You felt it was completely necessary to follow this
up, even those tests were being financed independently and would
be no strain on NASA.
Mr. Low. This wasn't the question.
The point I am trying to make is that at that time we were in the
middle of Project Mercury. I believe it was even before the Glenn
and Carpenter flights and I believe before Shepard and Grissom, but
I am not sure of that..
The service did not come to us to ask whether we were interested
in a research program on women. I think they themselves had to
decide whether they wanted to do this. We were only asked whether
we need women candidates, and at the time we did not.
Mrs. WEIS. One is always hearing that the training period for
astronauts is about 3, 31h years. Is that still the criteria for a train-
ing period, or was it 31/2 years because the missions were not ready
to goI
Mr. Low. Let me start to answer that, and perhaps John and Scott
can add to it.
Taking the highly qualified men we took in the initial seven and
we are taking today, we feel the time period is not 31/2 years. At the
time we selected the Mercury astronauts, we needed their talents also
to work with the engineers in developing the spacecraft systems, in
giving us the pilots' insight into how the displays should be built,
how the control panel should be built, and so on.
For Gemini and Apollo we still have our seven men to give us this
experience and we, therefore, can select the pilots somewhat later
than we did in the first program.
Do you want to add anything I
(' omander C(.eARPENTER. I might add one thing to that.
This is experience that. Mr. Low mentioned about contributing to
the manufacture of a new airplane, that test pilots receive auto-
matically, and it is difficult, in any other field of aviation to get this
I think this probably was another good reason for making test
frs. WEis. One final question, Mr. Chairman. It is obvious, though
there is no intentional discrimination, in these criteria, there is a
built-in discrimination because the candidate must be a test pilot.
Is there anything, in your opinion, that can be done to enable women
to be accepted as test pilots? Is that an area where women should
be operating now to qualify themselves for these jobs, to bring the
kind of pressures they are bringing on this committee to get the mili-
tary forces to accept them or civilian companies to accept them as
test. pilots?
Mfr. Low. I see no reason why' women should not enter into the test
piloting field.
I don't. think that in the civilian test pilot area there are any road-
blocks now.
It is julIt that none of them have seei1 fit to get into this area, in
larme numbers at least.
Mrs. WEIS. My feeling was there was a definite roadblock against
them in that the feld was relatively closed to women.
M1r. IAow. 'Would you either like to comment on that?

Colonel GLEN N. I think this gets back to the way our social order
is organized, really. It is just a fact. The men go off and fight the
wars and fly the airplanes and come back and help design and build
and test them. The fact that women are not in this field is a fact of
our social order. It may be undesirable.
It. obviously is, but we are only looking, as I said before, to people
with certain qualifications. If anybody can meet them I am all for
Mrs. WEis. I think we all agree with you there.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. ANFUSO. Thank you.
Mr. Corman?
Mr. CORMAN. Of the 32 people left in the present selection, Mr.
Low, are any nonmilitaryv?
Mr. Low. Yes, sir. Some of them are. I don't have the exact num-
ber. There is a fair number of civilians in this group.
Mr. CORM3AIN. I understand. I am thinking of more than one per-
son in the crew of these future flights. You are still thinking of each
person in the flight having all the qualifications of a present astronaut
Any different qualifications would be in addition to that.
Mr. Low. That is correct. You might argue, for example, that in
Project Apollo, where we will have three people flying, that one of
them could have less training. On the other hand, as you know, we
have recently selected the hnar orbit rendezvous approach as being
the best means of getting to the moon at. the earliest possible time. In
this approach one man would be in the mother ship, the so-called
command module, and he himself for the time that the other two are
on the moon will have to perform all the functions within that. ship.
The other two then will land on the moon and in their smaller craft,
the hanar excursion module, will make observations on the moon, they
will then have to launch the smaller vehicle and rendezvous again in
hlnar orbit.
We believe, now at least, that the qualifications of these men will
be very similar to the qualifications of Glenn and Carpenter and the
other ast ronauts.
Mr. COWMAN. I don't think you could reach any different conclusion.
I think that is right. I don't think we should be thinking in terms
of a five-man crew, in which each one would only know 20 percent
of the 'ob.
Mr. UL()w. That is right.
Mr. ANywuso. Mr. Bell.
Mr. BELL. Mr. Low, you said that you had 63 applicants ranging
from 26) to 35 and when you made a final selection I believe you said
there were 32.
I was wondering about the age bracket of the 32.
Mr. Low. I don't have any statistics, Mr. Bell, on the 32.
Mr. BEM. That is all.
Mr. ANFUSO. Mr. Waggonner.
Mr. WAGOONNER. I think Colonel Glenn has hit in his statement on
the exact differences of opinion which exist here, and fundamentally
our social order prescribes some differences. This program is de-
veloped to this point because of the differences in our social order
which time has laid down for us.

I don't think that anyone can deny that the criteria which NASA
has used to this point in selecting astronauts has been one which has
been successful and is beyond criticism, as far as I am concerned.
I only hope that in the future selections we will just be a small
percentage as fortunate as we have been in the other selections which
have been made.
I would disagree with Mr. Fulton that we should establish a na-
tional goal at this point to land a woman on the moon which would
be to the detriment of our program, which I think the criteria for
have been excellent.
The program in space to this point has been oriented toward peaceful
as well as military applications.
I think we have made tremendous progress and think the criteria
which have been established by NASA as national aims have been
good and should be pursued.
The idea is, among some, that we should do this because the Russians
do it.
I do not think the women of America want to do all the things that
.the Russian women have to do, in the first place, nor do I believe that
we Americans should do something simply because the Russians do
it, or that we as neighbors ought to do something that the Joneses do.
If something has merit, we should do it.
There is one thing I think the astronauts could do at this time to
put this problem in perspective with regard to the qualifications of
selecting astronauts, and that is to describe for this committee the
day-by-day activities of astronauts, without regard for just that one
day, every so often, that they are in orbit.
This is like a minister; he does not go up and preach only on Sun-
day. He has to do preparation every day to give a good sermon.
-Therefore, I think the astronauts, by telling these people what they
do and what they contribute every day would add more to this than
anything else at this point. I would ask Colonel Glenn and Mr. Car-
penter to describe for us their day-by-day activities, which make these
requirements necessary.
Commander CARPENMER. If there is a question as to whether or not
a woman is physically capable of passing, I think that in general she
would be.
Each of us, say in the month preceding flights, have a pretty regu-
lar schedule of physical exercise to keep in good trim. There are many
meetings. And many hours spent in the spacecraft itself during the
preflight testing. 1one of these are particularly stressful.
The hours are long and at this time we draw a great deal on the
experience we gained as test pilots in designing new airplanes.
If your question is, Can a woman stand the pace? I believe the
is "Yes."
Mr. WA;GONNE.R. No, Mr. Carpenter, my question was not that.
My question was-it really wasn't a question--but I think the public,
and everybody, in order to understand this, probably needs to know
how much you people contribute to the actual development of the
capsule and the methods and -the systems day by day in the actual
work of this project.
it is not just a Matter of preparing for a flight that somebody else
designs. You actually enter into the development and planning of
these orbital flights.

t -

Commander CARPENTER. That is correct.
Mr. WAGGONNER. You can demonstrate how day in and day out
you have to make application of your engineering or your test activi-
ties and background which help to make these programs successful.
That is the thing I'm saying. A lot of people think that, for example,
astronauts could appear on ever public occasion-which would be
desirable in many respects-but they don't know how much work you
people actually are required to contribute to this program, and in a
technical way, as well as a physical way.
Colonel GrxNz. I believe that is true.
Commander CARPIENTER. I believe that is true.
Mr. ANFUSO. I think, Mr. Waggonner; if-I. understand you cor-
rectly, you are not saying thatw'omen eventually Won't be able to do
these things, but at the present time they just can't; isn'tthat right?
We don't have any worfen candidates to do the things that these
astronauts can do, and for that reason they- are disqualified',at the
present. /
Mr. WAOOONNERV That is exactly right, Mr. Chairman, and there
has been no designs of anybody that this' has c6me to e. \
That has not been an iltentional th'mg-by-si4 stretch of the imagi-
nation. " . . /
Colonel GLEN$. Let mecommentlvthaL \ / .
While Scott 1was talking I ha4 * chance to thiik about it. Our\
last couple of days might- be an e emple' of wh-a, you aye talkingI
We were having a mokup in e Midwest-b!n Jthe last, couple days
on one of our future craft.k \
I arrived out here on Thursday afternoon abut 2 o'clockand went
directly in the plant, where'we went through som of the seat ejecti h
work first. / /
In that area yoU not only geo>-into the Otructu're of the seat And
strength, but we went over the 'data, where4some other angles
not quite right, where ,f man could get his. harness or suit caglt up
on corners. We modifiedsome of those. We went through tV propul-
sion whieh the rocket ejectio will have, which I had ha4,s6me experi-
ence with. We went through the.harness system twed'-with the seat,
which gets into the life sciences area;"' towhat-a human body will
We went into the loadings---eyeballs in and eyeballs out-as we
Also the angle at which these forces would be applied to the body
and what the support structure was in the spacecraft to take this.
That was about 2 hours that afternoon. Yesterday morhing we
started again by going through a simulator for the mission that they
have on this, wJere the instrument is set up and hooked up through
computers, where we get into simulated cockpit and run the hand
I assure you we had some different opinions on this hand controller
and the way the instrument system worked on this future vehicle.
We were drawing here on our experience. The placement of the
instrument is not what we would like to have. Placement with re-
lationship to the vision you expect to get from the window on rendez-
vous mission was not what we liked.

We went through mockup to the spacecraft and we went through
this in a very detailed fashion. We spent several hours with regard
to placement of switches, vision patterns, rest handles, correlating
this with the now pressure suit they had out there, as far as vision
patterns and rest patterns.
This we were still doing at about 4 o'clock last night when we
caught the airplane at 5 o'clock to come back here to Washington.
So in this area you can see we went not only into the test piloting
experience and background, but into engineer, life sciences, and struc-
tural work in engineering.
We have just about been across the board in the last 2 days. This
was an especially concentrated period where all these things fit into
a small area.
I don't say every day is spent like that, of course, but we also had
some discussions with some of the people out there regarding length
of mission and what they thought we could take, how long you can
stay in that position or this position, from which we draw our ex-
This might give you a very small feeling of the sort of thing we get
into at some of-these discussions.
Mr. WAXONNER. That is what I had in mind, Mr. Chairman, which
demonstrates the need for all of these qualifications.
I have nothing further.
Mr. ANFUSO. Thank you.
Mrs. RileyI
Mrs. RILEY. I notice one of your qualifications, sir, is age 35 or
under. Being a woman, that age question is a very important con-
Suppose one of your potential astronauts is under 35 and during
the period of training he or she passes age 35. Are they eliminatedI
Mr. Low. No, Mrs. Riley. The qualifications state under the age 35
at the time of selection.
In fact, John is a good example here. The criteria the first time
around was that the men must be under 40 at the time of selection.
John's 41st birthday is today and he made his flight in February.
Mrs. RILEY. You can understand my interest in the age.
Mr. ANFUSO. Is that all, Mrs. Riley?
Mrs. RILY. Yes. Thank you, sir.
Mr. ANIuso. Mr. Ryan.
Mr. RYAN. I was interested in pursuing the question of the tests
which as I said yesterday, the women were apparently mysteriously
Would you explain what happened in those tests?
Mr. Low. Again, Mr. Ryan, I cannot explain this exactly because
this was done by one of the military services.
Mr. Ryw. Which service ?
Mr. Low. Navy.
Mr. RYAN. Were the women told it was done by the Navy?
Mr. Low. All the dealings these women had were either with the
Lovelace Clinic or with the Navy. They were not with NASA.
Mr. RYAN. Is there any way in which NASA could pursue this and
help the women to pursue these tests so at least we can begin to have
an evaluation?

Mr. Low. If NASA had a requirement, or if there were qualified
women applicants, most certainly we would give them the tests that
are needed in the selection.
Mr. RYAN. Would it be in the interest of NASA or in the interest
of the space program to have these tests administered?
Mr. Low. As pointed out before, Mr. Ryan, it might have been of
interest in the area of medical research to take a large group of women
and determine what their physical stamina, what their qualifications
We don't feel at this time this would be an essential asset for our
space program.
Mr. RYAN. I don't want to pursue the matter further, Mr. Chair-
man. I might only observe that if-and I hope it is true-one of the
objectives, one of our national objectives, is a world at peace mder
international law-it seems to me to be important that space be used
for peaceful purposes. I think that women throughout history have
demonstrated, unfortunately for the men, that they are more con-
cerned with peace than men.
Witness the example of women's strike for peace. I would advo-
cate giving them a voice in what happens in space.
Mr. ANFuso. Mr. Moeller.
Mr. MOELLER. I would like to make a comment, Mr. Chairman:
First, I am not sure that the statement of Mr. Ryan a moment ago
would be subscribed to by everybody. I will never become an astro-
I certainly am interested in peace and the peaceful uses of outer
space,. I don't believe that is the thing we are really talking about.
Mr. Low, I would like to ask you one question.
If you got a directive today that women astronauts are to be trained,
and our priority program today is to get somebody on the moon,
would your program. in any way be impeded by this directive?
Mr. Low. Very much so.
Mr. MOELLER. No. 2, people in industry today say that it costs them
more in many many instances to use women in their employ than men,
and it is for tiMs reason that ofttimes women take lesser pay than men
Would it cost the Government more money to train women astro-
nauts and use women as astronauts than it would men?
Mr. Low. My opinion is that it would, because the training program
would have to be far more extensive, and because there are no women
today who are up to the same level of background as there are men.
Mr. MOELLER. Possibly the physical environment at test centers, and
even in the capsule itself, require certain adjustments that would be
more costly.
Mr. Low. I am sure it would require adjustments.
I cannot assess the cost of these, adjustments here and now.
Mr. MomLER. So that if today our priority program is getting a
man on the moon maybe we should ask the good ladies to be patient
and let us get this thing accomplished first and then go after training
women astronauts. Would you agree with that?
Mr. Low. I think that even Miss Cochran yesterday in her tesh-
mony had this ver.y same point of view, that a training program for
women should in no way interfere with our program.

Mr. MOELLER. Just for the record, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
Mr. ANFUSO. Mr. Low, I think we are all in accord on this com-
mittee that we should do nothing to interfere with the present NASA
program, but I think that it is also the general feeling of this com-
mittee that this country is big enough to tackle a program for women.
In line with what Miss Cochran said, she had a program, and a good
program, I think.
And I think without interfering with the present program, NASA
should have a program to train women pilots as test pilots, and in all
the things that are necessary to some day be used for space travel.
I don't think we ought to put that off. I think it would encourage
womanhood, it would encourage women to take up science and engi-
neering, if they felt there was such a career for them.
I If you need money, and if you suggest such a program, I think Con-
gress might look upon it with favor.
I think that is what Mr. Fulton had in mind. He did not have in
mind to shoot a woman into space right away, but it was a question to
be thought of and something for us to do some thinking about.
What do you say about that, Mr. Low?
Mr. Low. I wholeheartedly agree tlit we should not exclude women
from any activity in this country, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to make one or two points. One question I would
have is when should such a program be started.
This last year has been one of the most difficult years for NASA,
in that we are embarking on the beginning of a very, very major pro-
gram. Next year, also, our task will be enormous.
I would be most concerned if we took any steps that would delay
by even 1 day the possible achievement of the manned moon landing.
Mr. AwFuso. So would we.
Mr. Low. So I would want to take under consideration as to when
such a program should be started.
There is another point that perhaps might be worth making. If
we are convinced that we need the kind of background that John and
Scott have for pilot candidates, in other words, if we don't relax our
requirements for an engineering degree, this in itself I think would be
an impetus for more women to get into the field of engineering and
science, which will be of benefit to our total space program.
Mr. ANFUSO. One final question, Mr. Fulton.
Mr. FULToN. I would like to rebut a few things.
For my friend Mr. Moeller from Ohio, I would disagree strongly
with his point that we should complete the moon program and then
look to the women. That means that if we are going to the moon
within this decade, it is telling these women we are going to wait 10
I hope you didn't agree with that.
Mr. Low. I did not.
Mr. FurLo . Next is this. I did agree with my friend from Louis-
iana because he is a fine Southern gentleman from Louisiana, and I am
a Northern progressive from Pittsburgh.
Mr. WAGGONNER. Who has had the women waiting indefinitely.
Mr. FULTON. You state that our social system prescribes certain
differences that we should abide by them, and that is the reason why
we can't have women in the space program at this time?

S1 ) fl

To me that is the same thing that has been said to women when they
were interested in suffrage, or wlien thpy were interested in planes.
I would like to point out that this is about the same time as in the
development of the airplane that women begin to take part. With the
Wright brothers in 1903, the first woman passenger in a p lane was a
French woman on July 8,1908. several months later Wilbur Wright
took up an American woman at LeMans in France--a Mrs. Burg.
In addition to that, we had two women who, by 1910, tried to pilot
a plane personally. One was a Miss Rashe, and the other was a Miss
Each of these women took the planes tip without even having a
pilot's license.
Don't underestimate these women.
By 1910 we had the famous French flier, Miss D'Trianie, with a
pilot's license, who came over to the first international air meet or race
that was in the United States at Belmont Park in New York.
The question is this.
Are the women to be put in a more restricted position in going into
space than they were in thle older days in piloting r
My answer to that is quiickly "No."1
May I say this to Mr. Low, too, in rebuttal:
Of course, nobody wants to retard the lunar program. You have
adequate facilities. You are being given $2 billion more this year, and
it is not all programed.
You have been changing your programs. You could very well make
a small test program for these women and get them started.
The second point I would make to Mr. Low is this: When President
Kennedy-and I praise him on this, and I am a Republican-said to
move the space program further, it. changed the attitude of NASA
Administrators who came before this committee.
Previously, they would come and say they were handling the pro-
grains as efficiently as they can, they were using all the people as
much as they could, and that they did not need any more money; if
we (rave them more money they would only waste it.
lhen the President set. the goal, within 90 days, as everyone on
this committee will remember, up they came and changed their minds
and gaily said, "Oh, we can use $1 billion more." Now, the second
year, you want $2 billion more.
I believe we do have the facilities in this country for training
women without interfering with these prime progams.
I feel that we should equally be in a race wit Russia to place the
first woman in space.
I think that would be a clear first, as much as landing on the
moon-to me, it would be more.
I would like to end up with this for Colonel Glenn:
Do you believe that it is impossible in this country to expand our
space program for peaceful uses beyond what it is now?
Is it impossible to go any faster?
Colonel GLENN. Nothing is impossible.
Mr. FurToN. All right, then, it is possible to expand it in certain
directions, and why not in the direction of women?
Colonel GLENN. As I said, I am not anti anybody; I am ust pro
space. We have not seen the idea of women in space put forward

with the idea that they are better qualified, which is what we are
looking for. The only thing we have seen thus far is women coming
in space just by the very fact they are women.
Mr. FULTON. Let's face this. Mrs. Weis brought it out beautifully
The very setup of our military training structure now effectively
eliminates every woman because the test pilot schools are all military
and the women can't get in them.
It is obvious that the present training structure elimii.ates women.
The standards Mr. Low sets, based on those particular educational
structures without equal training opportunities otherwise effectively
eliminates women.
My question is, wouldn't you depart from Mr. Low's strict require-
ments? NASA did do it for you on your engineering degree.
Colonel GLN. No, no, I see no requirement to do this.
As I said, I don't want to get into the international situation, that
is the consideration of you gentlemen on the committee here, but look-
ing at it as we do we have qualified people available from these schools
now to do the job, yes, we do, and for the numbers we are talking about
in the foreseeable future, we do. Now, to spend many millions of dol-
lars to additionally qualify other people, whom we don't particularly
need, regardless of sex, creed or color, doesn't seem right, when we
already have these qualified people.
Mr. ANFUSo. The House is in session. I think we must recess.
Mr. FuITON. Let me finish this: You wouldn't oppose the proposal
of the chairman and myself to have a small training program for
women to let them qualify because of other missions there might be in
space, such as science, and astronomy?
Colonel GLENN. I wouldn't oppose it. I see no requirement for it.
Mrs. RImY. One observation.
Mr. I.NUso. I always yield to a lady.
Mrs. Rr Ey. You are in close company. This objective appreciation
of Mr. Fulton has touched me very deeply. [Laughter.]
'Mr. MOELLER. May I make a quick insertion, I am sure there are
other ways by which Jim can become popular with the ladies.
Mr. AN uso. Yes. Gentlemen, the House is in session. Before
we adjourn I want to say this: This may be the last time that I will
preside over a committee. I am assuming other duties. I want to
say that this committee has functioned in perfect harmony, I don't
know of a committee in the whole House that functions with such
unanimity as this committee.
As you know, we passed the authorization bill not only unanimously
in committee but unanimously in the House, which is quite a record.
That is why I say to you, go back and talk to Mr. Webb and Dr.
Dryden and come up with some kind of a program so that you can
continue to have the bipartisan support which you have always seen
and enjoyed to make your program go ahead.
Your program has gone ahead and I want to congratulate NASA
for the speef in which it has accelerated this program.
I w-nt to take this last opportunity of congratulating our two
great .american astronauts who have demonstrated not only a great
ability in the field in which they are engaged but also that they have
assumed a personal responsibility, whether they like it or not, of dem-
onstrating leadership throughout the world.

When I see women here bring their children just to look at them, you
can see what our youth is looking forward to. This is the kind of
leadership that they want and they look up to-as great men as you
I want to thank you.
.Mfr. RIEJILMAN. Mr. Chairman, before you hit the gavel, as a fellow
New Yorker, and a colleague of yours, Mr. Chairman, I did not realize
that this was possibly the last meeting that you might be chairing on
this committee. May I say to you that it has been a pleasure for me, as
a colleague of yours, to work with you. No one has been more sin-
cere, and active, in putting every bit of effort that you have behind
this program since you have been on this committee. It has been
a measuree for me to work with you, and Vic, we hate to see you leave.
Mr. RYAN. fay I add my voice and say you have certainly served
with great distinction as chairman of the various subcommittees you
have presided over. As a member of the whole committee, I know I
speak for all of us, when I say we will miss your services on this
Mr. ANFUSO. Thank you.
Mr. FULTON. May I add to the Republican side, you are tops.
Mr. ANruso. Thank you, gentlemen.
(Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.)

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, we were given to understand
that your subcommittee hearings on the qualifications for astronauts and prac-
ticability of testing and using women as astronauts would take place for 3
days and were scheduled as such. Instead, the hearing was terminated with-
out prior notice at the end of 2 days, July 17-18, 1962.
On this premise, and since at the conclusion of my opening statement July
17 I had requested the privilege of summation time, I ask that the following
and two other items be included in the record of the 2-day hearing:
Speaking for myself as having passed three phases of astronaut testing and
the 12-woman group which subsequently passed the first phase (the Mercury
Astronaut selection tests at Lovelace Foundation, Albuquerque, N. Mex.), we
ask that (1) a parallel program of testing and training women pilots as astro-
nauts be instituted by NASA as a civilian agency using civilian women and,
(2) that as already requested of President Kennedy by Representative James
Fulton of Pennsylvania and others, a national goal be established to put the
first woman in space.
It was pointed out at the hearing on July 18 that the NASA requirement
that an astronaut be an experimental Jet test pilot is presenly impossible for
any U.S. woman to meet and is therefore a builtin discrimination against women.
In the new astronaut qualification requirements, a college degree in engi-
neering or the physical sciences is nonprohibitive, but equivalent experience
has been recognized also, as in the cases of Mercury Astronauts Glenn and
Carpenter, neither of whom had college degrees when accepted into the program.
As Colonel Glenn said, "While I did not have the actual hours at college, I
had more than the equivalency of an engineering degree." With our group of
women pilots averaging 4,500 flying hours as against the average of 2.500 hours
of the new male astronaut group, equivalent experience should be accepted for
women since they can get neither military jet test experience or Jobs in the
civilian jet test pilot pool which is drawn from men with military flying back-
Mr. Chairman, I preface further remarks by reminding the committee that
testimony by Mr. Low, Colonel Glenn and Commander Carpenter regarding the
matter of astronaut qualifications for either sex, or regarding the possibility
of a woman being capable of space flight, was purely opinion. No expert wit-
ness testified either pro or con on the evidence so far established that in some
fields women are better qualified for the stresses of space flight.
Now to continue, regarding "qualifications," Colonel Glenn, following his
opinion that the astronaut must be able to "analyze, assess and report * * *
under periods of high stress, both mentally and physically, and observe many
complex functions under these stresses," goes on to opine, "This is not to say
that no one else could be trained to do it."
I am no more a doctor or research scientist than the other witnesses who
testified at this hearing, but I would like to mention just two examples of stress
testing which significantly point up the tolerances of women.
You remember I referred to my 9 hour 40 minute run in water isolation. I
(lid not have the opportunity to add that 2 of the 12-woman astronaut candi-
date group, Mrs. Rhea Hurrle Allison and Miss Mary Wallace Funk, underwent
these same tests later with equally good results. The Mercury astroruauts
have had only 3 hours of sensory deprivation, or isolation, in an air environment.
You many be interested in the preliminary report on three women astronaut
7 8

candidates under the prolonged deprivation examination, from the qualified
scientists who conducted it. The report is a separate item under this final
Studies tuinder a NASA grant at Florida State University indicate that women
have a higher heat toleration point. As you know, heat was a problem during
Commander Carpenter's three-orbital flight. Dr. D. R. Kenshalo, of Florida
State University, is conducting experiments with men and women which show
that women would be comfortable in a spacecraft with temperatures from 16'
to 26

higher than men would be. Dr. Kenshalo's research is looking toward the
elimination of thousands of valuable pounds of instrumentation now thought
necessary for human comfort on long space flights.
We women who wish to be tested for astronaut flights believe that no one
can speak fully on "qualifications" until a broader base is established. How
can anyone say that women are or are not qualified until they are given the
opportunity to demonstrate their ability? Mrs. Hart put it plainly when she
urged a continuation of the tests which were started at Lovelace Foundation
and were dropped before the fl2women could go through the scheduled tests at
the U.S. Navy School of Aviation Medicine at Pensacola or the remainder
undergo the isolation study.
Mr. Chairman, President Kennedy himself spoke of "any effort we could make
In time or money which could put us first in any new area."
A member of your committee said during a discussion of the advantage of
having a "first" in space by putting up an Azerican woman that the United
States didn't have to keep up with the Joneses, or in other words with the Rus-
sians who so far hold all the prestige "firsts" in space.
Prof. Jerome B. Wiesner, the President's Special Assistant for Science and
Technology, has reported that space achievements are a matter of national pres-
tige, that "During the next few years the prestige of the United States will in
part be determined by the leadership we demonstrate in space activities."
There is hardly need to add that a woman In space would say more for NASA's
"peaceful uses of space" goal than the seeming ambivalence of using solely
male military pilots as U.S. astronauts, as has been and apparently is intended
to be the practice.
Several of you have pointed out that funds are available or could be added
to the NASA budget for testing and training women for space flights. Under-
standably this would be a parallel program which would not interfere with work
on the current programs. I do not think 1 woman of the 13 of us wants to inter-
fere with the national goal of putting the first man on the moon. We only ask
that we be tested and trained in order to be part of, not ahead of, the manned
space flight program of our country. Astronauts Glenn and Carpenter them.
selves have said that the training program is shorter now, because much of
their time in the first 3-year period was spent working on design and modifica-
tion of space vehicles.
Mr. Chairman, in conclusion may I say that the argument that phasing women
into astronaut training would "hold up" training of men is fallacious reason-
ing? The July 18 witnesses testified that in addition to the 7 Mercury astro-
nauts, 32 male astronaut candidates now are being tested, of whom 5 or 10 will
be selected. No other astronaut group is even in process of being chosen, thus
the testing and training devices at such scattered locations as Dayton, Ohio:
Pensacola; Johnsville, Pa.; Cape Canaveral; Houston; Edwards AFB, Calif.;
San Antonio; and Washington, D.C. must have some free time to schedule a
small group of 13 or fewer women among the males.
We ask to complete the tests originally scheduled and that the successful
candidates go on to even more rigorous tests and astronaut training.
All we need is the opportunity to prove that we are "capable," "qualified,"
and "required."
In a dark-proof, sound-proof room, three women pilots, all candidates for
astronaut training, were suspended in a tank of water for a prolonged period of
extreme sensory isolation. Purpose of this testing Is to obtain information re-
garding certain areas of functioning. Most pertinent information pertains to
the total reaction to, and tolerance for, the extreme monotony and isolation.
In addition, some notion of levels of anxiety and conflict, and of habitual pat-

7 9

terns of psychological defenses is gained. A measure of the individual's ability
to refrain from action, and ability to tolerate stress without resorting to motor
activity to dissipate anxiety is also derived. There is also implied here an
opportunity to observe for tendency to somatization of anxiety. Finally, the
subject's physiological reactions gives some indication of responses likely under
prolonged weightlessness or diminished force.
Assessment of clinical observations, psychological testing, psychiatric evalua-
tion, and reaction to the deprivation experience, revealed that the three candi-
dates not only possess no significant liabilities, but also possess exceptional, if
not unique, qualities and capabilities assumed to be important for serving on
special missions in astronautics, viewed from the standpoint of personality
makeup and functioning. Each of the three candidates performed at a signifi-
cantly better level of adaptation than "normal" controls. A rank ordering of
subjects can be made on any or all items tapped by this performance test and use
of this technique permits experimental assessments and clear-cut clinical judg-
ments to be made which may well have significant predictive value for candidate
It is the opinion of the investigators that these three candidates have much
to recommend them for selection as astronaut candidates.
JAY T. SHURLEY, M.D., Principal Inre8tigator.
CATHRYN WALTERS, Project Psychologist.
Phy8iologic data
Male astronaut Male astronauts Female
candidates (31) selected (7) candi-
Test date (1),
Median Range Median Range value
Height ......................... centimeters.. 175.5 167-180 176.9 170-180 171
Weight ...... kilograms.. 73.4 60.9-7. 1 75.3 69.8-87.1 53
Body surface area--------square meters.. 1.9 1.7-2.06 1.927 1.81-2.06 1.61
Lean body mass --------------- kilograms.. 63.9 54.6-71.1 66.81 59.0-71.1 .....
Total body potassium ............... grams.. 168. 6 142-204 175.4 167-199 94.6
Total body water .................... liters.. 41.3 36.3-47.2 41.47 37. 0-44.6 27.8
Blood volume ......................... do.... 4.917 3.33-6.91 5.404 4.35-. 91 3.31
Total lung capacity ................... do .... 6.82 5.36-8.19 7.016 6.34-8.02 5.23
Functional residual capacity .......... do .... 3.22 2.25-4.23 3.410 2. 96-4.23 2.62
Vital capacity ....................... do .... 5.49 4.35-6.91 5.537 5.11-6.02 3.95
Residual volume ...................... do .... 1.32 0.83-2.00 1.479 1.13-2.00 1.28
Maximum breathing capacity ......... do .... 179. 5 149-247 191.4 156-247 142
Nitrogen clearance equivalent ............... 11.1 9.3-13 10. 93 9.20-12.0 !1
Final 02 uptake during exercise .............. 2.41 1. 90-2.84 2.603 2.07-2.84 1.71
Laboratory tests
Male astronaut Male astronauts astronaut
candidates (31) selected (7) candi-
Test date (1)
Median Range Median Range Unit
lIgb.-gm/100 ml --------------------------- 15.97 14.5-17.9 15.59 14.5-16.2 13.4
Leucocytes .................................. 8,136 4,700-15,250 7,736 5,000-10,000 8,150
Sed rate--mm/hr ............................ 5.03 0-32 3.9 2-6 17
Cholesterol-mg/100 ml --------------------- 225.20 160-320 237.6 184-280 246
NA in mEg/i ................................ 142.20 139-146 142.6 141-144 133
K in mEg/i -------------------------------- 4.57 3.4-5.5 4.69 4-5.5 4
CI in mEg/ ................................. 104.98 102.5-110 105.40 103. 1-108 106.8
COs in mEg/l ------------------------------ 26.08 21.8-29.8 26.01 23-29.8 27
Blood sugar, astmg-mg/100 ml .............. 101.70 84-112 100.3 88-108 88
PBI-mg/100 ml ............................. 5.84 4.2-10.35 5.47 4.9-6 4. 7
BSP-percent in 45 rin ..................... 3.23 0-6.7 2.69 1.5-4.3 2.7
17 KGS-mgf24 hrs .......................... 19.07 8.8-29 18.33 11.1-23 6
17 KS-mg/24 hrs ............................ 13.69 8-22.6 13.26 9.9-17.5 7
8 0

M edical h istory

h istory

Ph y8 ical ex amination

Neurological x amination

l' roetoscopio ex amination

E ar, iose, and th roat

Album querque, N. Mex., July 21, 1960.
The following is the summary of the positive clinical findings in the case of
Miss Jerrie Cobb, age 28, never married, born March 5, 1961, Norman, Okla., 1
year college. Clinic No. 157-869.
Medical history
1. Mumps, age 25, no complications or sequellae.
2. T. & A. 1942 no complications or sequellae.
3. Surgical closure laceration right ankle, age 5, no complications or sequellae.
Family history
Mother age, 56, living and well; father age 62, living and well; 1 sister, age 31,
living and well.
Maternal grandfather, living and well, age 78; maternal grandmother, age 70,
Parkinson's disease with complications; paternal grandfather, died age 72;
paternal grandmother, living and in fair health, age 84.
Aviation history
She has had about 7,000 hours with about 5 hours of Jet time. She has flown
mostly transport aircraft and has had 200 hours in the last 6 months. Has
had a good deal of ferry experience with fighter aircraft to South America.
Has had no oversea service but has ferried aircraft to Europe and South
America from 1952 to 1956. Has had about 10 hours at ambient pressures over
30,000 feet equivalent and about 6,500 hours over 20,000 feet, 10 hours over 30,000
feet and 2 hours over 40,000 feet. She has had no low pressure chamber or
explosive decompression experience but has had no symptoms at altitude. No
accidents or injuries.
Physical examination
1. Height 67 inches, weight 124 pounds, temperature 98.4, blood pressure
118/70 right. 115/70 left, pulse 66.
2. 1% scar 6 cm. above right medial maleolus.
3. Feet are cool, moderate hyperhydrosis, slight cyanosis, but all major pulses
are adequate.
Cardiology examinat"on
EKG, Phono cardiogram, Vector cardiogram, Ballisto cardiogram, Master
double 2 stelp-all within normal limits.
Neturological examination
All reflexes are normal.
Electroencephalogram showed slight Irregularity after hypei ventilation but
within normal limits.
Proctoscopic examination
Inserted to 18 cm. normal.
(yn consulation
Normal pelvis in all respects. No unusual menstrual history.
Laboratory findings
Blood, 1)1xdt c'ieaistry, urine and 24 hour specimens, throat cultures (II.
Influenzae), gastric analysis are all within limits. Stool specimens were given
after barium and therefore inadequate. No other specimen could be obtained.
Ear, nose, and throat
No abnormalities noted, equilibration normal.
A U( loloyy c.ra pi (ia tion
No noteworthy hearing losses except at the 4000, 6000 and 8000 cps. fre-
quencies on the left where there is a hearing loss of around 60 db. Right is
normal. Not considered significant. Complete recruitment on left.

8 1

lbhthalnology examination
02/20 right with JI bilaterally same left.
ilefraction-right+75s--25cx100-20/20; left+25s-crx 170-20/20.
Slight weakness of convergence--advised corrective exercises. Not
ered significant.
Dental examination
Has 1 tooth needing repair. Has 12 teeth restored is repaired and all wisdom
teeth missing.
X-ray examination
All X-rays are negative except for thickening of floor of left antrum, not be-
lieved significant at this time. No symptoms noted.
1Phtysiological examination
In exercise tolerance test she showed a normal circulatory and ventilatory
response. Her overall performance based on oxygen uptake per kilogram per
minute and oxygen pulse Is good. Her physical competence it; good.
Miss Cobb is the first female to receive the astronaut type examination as
given at the Lovelace Foundation. She is a very highly motivated, intelligent
anl stable adult female who created a very good impression throughout the
clinic. She adjusted rapidly and well to the clinic situation.
Everyone who came in contact with her remarked about her pleasant per.
sonality. She has a remarkable negatl,e history and her physical examination
was essentially normal. It is considered that from all information available
and tests done here that she would qualify for special missions. As the result
of her exercise program since February 1960 the results of her present exercise
tests were excellent. It is recommended that she proceed on to the Aeromedical
Laboratory for stress tests followed by a final evaluation based upon all available
test information.
For the Board:
Head, Department of Aerospace Medicine, Lovelace Foundatio,, for Medi-
cal Education and Research.
Itinerary for Miss Jerrie Cobb while at U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine
Date Time Place Tests
0800 625B ................
0730 625D ................
655 ................
625D ................
625D ...........
625B. ..........
Ward M, U.S.N.H.
6 .............
625A ...............
LPC2 ..............
LPC2 ..............
16 ..................
625D ...............
Acceleration .......
625B ...............
625D .............
Hangar 74-------..
WardN .........
Ward N ........
Training, Tank I.
Training, Tank ..
Electrocardlographs, electrocardiographs and oxygen consump.
tion during graded exercise. Phonocardiograph, and ballisto.
Four X-ray views of chest, complete hemogram, fasting serum
cholesterol, protein bound iodine, atherogenic indix, a/ Ulpo-
protein ratio.
Routine electroencephalograms with hyperventihation and
straboscopic stimulation.
Complete exercise tests.
Tilt table test.
Hand dynamometry.
Otorhinolaryngology evaluation.
Airborne electroencephalogram.
Lecture on basic low pressure chamber techniques.
Full pressure suit run.
Psychologic testing and evaluation.
Caloric testing of threshold of vestibular function.
Run on slow-rotation room.
Treadmill physical endurance test.
Pulmonary velocity.volume study* maximum breathing capacity.
General medical history and physical examination.
Counter rolling demonstration.
EEG with carotid sinus stimulation.
Preflight physical fitness testing, speed-agility testing, jump
reach, chin ups, endurance run, sit ups.
Neuropsychiatric evaluation.
Ophthalmologic evaluation.
Water survival, Dilbert dunker.
Water survival techniques.
Ejection seat and airborne survival techniques.
May 15

L ieu tcnant, M arine Corps, U . S.

MAY 19, 1961.
The subject was placed on a treadmill at 3.5 m.p.h. and 8.6-percent incline for 5
minutes. Then, following 5 minutes of rest while seated, she mounted the tread.
mill at 7.0 m.p.h. and 8.6-percent incline.
She maintained her smooth running pace for 1 minute before evidence of
fatigue. A second minute of less coordinated running followed. Total duration
to exhaustion: 140 seconds.
Subjectively the limiting factor was an entire body response rather than either
a leg or pulmonary collapse. Recovery was prompt.
The calculated resulting score is 44. This is in the "average" range by the
normal standards for "men of military age." However, this result, if anything
is fallaciously low, because her pulse rate between 4 and 4.5 minutes had returned
to her usual resting rate of about 90 beats per minute. If her normal heart rate
were slower, this test result might have been still better.
This test demonstrates an entirely adequate capacity for hard muscular work.
Lfeute nant, Marine Corps, U.S. Naval Hospital.
Subject: Jerrie'Cobb.
D.O.B. : March 5, 1931.
Civil status: Single, never married.
Education: 1 year of college (Oklahoma).
Religious affiliation: No formal affiliation, possesses strong personal sense of
religious affiliation (Protestant).
Occupation: Professional pilot and aeronautic sales executive.
Purpose of study: Miss Cobb's purpose: To subject herself to those tests pro-
posed by NASA and other authorities in order to qualify as the first American
woman astronaut. She is very highly motivated and intensely serious in pursuit
of this goal.
Our purpose: To extend the range of subjects studied and information recorded
and analyzed from persons undergoing profound experimental sensory isolation
and solitude.
Clinical interview: A feminine-appearing slender blonde woman wearing a
Ipnytail hairdo, who walks and moves with the grace of an athlete, and estab-
lishes immediate warm and friendly rapport but volunteers minimal information.
She is alert and her answers are goal-directed and pertinent without circum-
stantiality. Actually she tends to be laconic in replies. One is struck by her
economy of both words and motion, her low level of manifest anxiety, her calm
and unfailingly pleasant personality. The picture of her personality which
emerges in an interview is that of a very wel-adjusted "average" person who is
exceptionally well-endowed in the area of psychomotor skills and coordination,
and Is blessed with excellent health. She has shown unusual single-mindedness
of purpose in pursuing a career in aeronautics as a pilot with consistently effective
performances. In many hazardous situations, In a hazardous occupation, she
has had a superb safety record and would appear to be success, rather than acci-
dent or error-prone in pilot judgments. It would appear also that she gets on
very well with other persons of both sexes and all ages. Her basic drives appear
to be unusually highly sublimated into her occupational activity with a minimum
of tension and frustration evident. Clinical impression is that of a healthy
functioning, action-oriented personality with the structural configuration of the
uncomplicated, normal hysterical type.
Past medical history: Remarkably negative.
Physical and laboratory data: All within normal limits (see Lovelace Clinic

8 3

eaor of

Clinical E.E.O.: Normal awake and asleep with predominant 9-10/sec. activity.
Psychological test evaluation: Wechsler adult intelligence scale, Rorschach,
draw-a-person, sentence completion, and personality self-inventory (the Minne-
sota multiphasic personality inventory) were administered.
Results show high comprehension and high psychomotor coordination in an in-
dividual who scores in the lower half of the bright normal range of general verbal
and performance intelligence.
.Minimal intra-personal anxiety and conflict; with minimal introspective ten-
dencies in a highly conforming, moral, and conventional person with very effective
sublimitations of basic drives. More a "doer" than a creative thinker.
Sensory Isolation performance: Reveals exceptionally effective psychophysto-
logical functioning and excellent adjustment to sensory isolation. Far exceeds
any other female yet tested in tolerance for sensory isolation, with limitations of
water activity. Emotional reaction: calm and positive. No complaints, a high
degree of pleasurable feelings experienced and very well tolerated. Minimal per-
ceptual stimuli clearly and realistically perceived with no evidence of a tendency
to project in any sensory sphere and no evidence of depersonalization fragmnenta-
tion of the ego, somatization of anxiety, nor loss of body-image integrity, despite
the usual marked deviation in estimation of elapsed time. Somewhat constricted
in indices of ideational content and reporting. Exposure to sensory deprivation
self-terminated after 9 hours, 40 minutes, without evidence that any absolute
limit of tolerance had been reached. Maximum tolerance for all other female
subjects tested so far: under 6 hours. Physiological adaptation: Cardiovascular,
respiratory, and body-temperature values shifted in the expected direction and in
the usual degree (e.g. pulse dropped from 84/min. before isolation to 52/min.
afterward) etc.
Based on the above partial assessment through psychiatric and psychological
techniques and augmented by a special test under conditions of profound experi-
mental sensory isolation, it is our opinion that Miss Jerrie Cobb not only possesses
no significant liabilities, but also possesses several exceptional, if not unique,
qualities and capabilities for serving ok.special missions in astronautics, viewed
from the standpoint of her personality makeup and functioning. Among these
are: A ready acceptance of direction or a ready assumption of responsibility, as
circumstances dictate. An exceptional ability to remain passive and relaxed
when action is unavailable or unwise. An unusually smooth integration of
lpsyehophysiologLcal functioning, a stable ego, and a strong, healthy motivation.
Her pleasant personality would lend itself as well to nonsolitary missions.
I believe she has very much to recommend her for selection as an astronaut
Profes8or of Psychfatry.
To avoid any possible confusion In the minds of the committee as to some of
the facts, I would like by way of summary to state the following:
First: There is not now and to date has not been any women in space or wom-
en astronaut program.
Second: No woman to date has passed 'Mercury astronaut tests. I have the
word of Dr. Lovelace on that. The tests at Albuquerque were preliminary
medical tests. They did not qualify any person as an astronaut or astronaut
candidate. Many series of subsequent checks and tests would be necessary to
do this.
Third: The NASA has never approved any astronaut program for women or
designated any candidate or candidates for such a role.
Fourth: What the Navy's aerospace laboratory at Pensacola planned to do
with the women who passed the medicals at Albuquerque was in the nature of
further research to that conducted at Albuquerque. It might possibly have led
to eliminations and further checks of the remainder and thus might have served
as a nucleus for a women's astronaut program. It was arranged by some of the
doctors. The NASA, so far as I know, had nothing to do with it. It was called
off because the Navy authorities thought that the work and expense should not

be involved unless the NASA said there was need. The NASA could not say
there was need and therefore did not say so.
Fi'th: When the doctors at Albuquerque decided they wanted to make a com.
parative medical check of women to lay down for comparison beside the check
of the male candidates who had passed through that institution, they wanted a
group, and Just not one, two, or three. They asked the 99 Club, which is an or-
ganization of women pilots, to dig up a number of candidates. Only one, Miss
Cobb, showed up. Because a check of one was not indicative of much of any-
thing, Dr. Lovelace subsequently contacted me. The result was 20 candidates.
Several who had expressed willingness to take the tests on the first Invitation
lived at quite a distance from Albuquerque and travel and living were important
items. That's why I personally financed these items for most of them. It was
not the results of the tests on the first candidate that gained approval for re-
search on the others. A group was considered Important from the start.
Sixth: I am not here as a. spokesman for the 12 women who passed the medical
tests. I havv neither sought nor received authority from any of them in this
respect. But they know my general views as expressed in my prepared state-
ment and some of them have told me they approve of such views. Therefore, I
question that any person who expresses contrary views has been appointed or
drafted as a spokesman for the 11 not present at these hearings. In this con-
nection, I hand the committee copy of a letter I wrote to Miss Cobb under date
of March 23, 1962, a copy of which went to all the 12 persons who passed the
medical tests. I also hand the committee copy of a letter received from Miss
Gene Nora Stumbough of Wichita, Kans., dated June 11, 1902. These are self-
explanatory and for your files and need not so far as I am concerned go into the
transcript of testimony.
Seventh: There had been considerable publicity that seemed to give too much
importance to the earlier of these medical tests of women. Because they were
of a research nature without any support or authorization by NASA and public-
ity could have been harmful to further work, it was thought wise by Dr. Love-
lace to pledge the 20 candidates for tests not to engage in any publicity.

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