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MR.

GUNN:

Hi,

yes sir.

I have Mr.

Poneman on the phone.
ADMIRAL DONALD: MR. GUNN: Okay. You all

All right gentlemen.

are now connected.
ADMIRAL DONALD: MR. PONEMAN: Hi Mr. Secretary.

Hey.

How are you Admiral? We

ADMIRAL DONALD:

I'm doing great.

have got Mr.

Michael Weber from the Nuclear And

Regulatory Commission on the phone line also.
the reason I am calling -minute,

Michael bear with me a I have

I'm going to go back and recap --

also got Mr.

Troy Mueller who is my (inaudible)

14 15
16 17 18 19

patrol director online as well. Earlier this evening, as the USS Ronald we --

Reagan was operating off the coast of Japan,

the ship just arrived. We had given the ship some guidance as far as positioning was concerned to stay clear of the area of the potential plume, basically

20 21 22 23 24 25

told her to stay 50 miles outside of the radius of
the --

100 miles --

excuse me

--

50 miles radius

outside of the plant --

damaged plant --

potentially

damaged plant,

and then 100 miles along the plume

with a vector of 45 degrees. The ship was adhering to that NEAL R.GROSS
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85 1 2 3 4 5 requirement and detected some activity about two and a half times above normal airborne activity using on-board sensors on the aircraft carriers. So that indicated that they had found the plume and it was probably more significant than

what we had originally thought. 7 8
The second thing
--

the second thing

that has happened is

we have had some helicopters

conducting operations from the aircraft carrier and 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS
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one of the helicopters came back from having stopped on board the Japanese command ship in the area,
people who had been on --

and

were on the helicopter who

had walked on the deck of the ship, were monitored and had elevated counts on their feet, per minute. MR. PONEMAN: Yes, 5,000 d m. 2500 counts

86

1 2 3 4 5 But I wanted to get you guys on the line and my expert on the line so we can get the data and then the proper people notified. MR. 7 8 questions. PONEMAN: in Okay, I have a couple of

Number one,

terms of the level of what's the delta

radiation that you are picking up,

between that and any information we have from the 10 11 12 13 14
15 1

Japanese or other sources of what the level of radiation would be, given the venting and so forth

that we know has occurred?
MR. MUELLER: So
--

this is

Mueller --

the sample that was taken and then what we detected,
we were terms it's

100 nautical miles away and it's
--

--

in

our

compared to just normal background

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

it's

about 30 times what you would detect just on a

normal air sample out at sea.
And so we thought -we thought based on

what we had heard on the reactors that we wouldn't detect that level even at 25 miles. greater than what we had thought. So it's much

We didn't think we

would detect anything at 100 miles. MR.. PONEMAN: You didn't think you'd Okay, and then in

detect anything at 100 miles.

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87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay, terms of the regulations operating in and so forth of people I forget there's how

these kinds of areas, acronym for it,

some you know,

PAG or something,

do the levels detected compare with what is permissible? MR. general public, MUELLER: it If it were a member of the well, it would take

would take --

about 10 hours to reach a limit, MR. MR. general public. MR. PONEMAN: Right. PONEMAN: MUELLER: Right.

a PAG limit.

For a member of the

You mean,

at the

level you detected? MR. MR. MR. MUELLER: PONEMAN: MUELLER: Yes sir. But 10 hours, Yes sir, and it okay. would be a

thyroid dose issue. MR. PONEMAN: It's a thyroid dose issue. that the amount of

but the net of all

this is

release that is

detected by these two episodes or is significantly

whatever you would call them,

higher than anything you would have expected from what you have been reading from all MR. MUELLER: Yes sir. sources? The number -the

specific number we detected was 2.5 times 10 to the

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88 1 2 3 4 5 minus nine microcuries per milliliter, that's particulate airborne. It is -airborne, we did not and

take radioiodine samples so I don't know that value, but this is particulate airborne.

6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that's Reagan? ADMIRAL DONALD: correct. MR. MUELLER: Yes sir. On the Ronald Reagan, detectors in the airborne, Tell me again exactly how you picked up these two forms of samples. MR. MUELLER: We have automatic picked up

the plant that picked up -and all

of our continuous monitors at this value. And then desk and

alarmed at the same level,

we took portable air samples on the flight got the same value. ADMIRAL DONALD: running continuous that run in detectors,

These are normally continuous monitors the time, monitoring

the engine room all

our equipment. MR. PONEMAN: These are detectors on the

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89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 MR. PONEMAN: On the Ronald Reagan. They

are there because you have got equipment there that,. you know, there, it could emit stuff and while you were

you picked up stuff that was ambient which the plume?

indicated that you actually were in MR. MR. MUELLER: PONEMAN:

That's correct. And this was -this was

30 times higher than what you would have expected? MR. MR. shoes and
--

MUELLER: PONEMAN:

Yes sir. Okay and the one with the

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12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

tell MR.

me about that again. MUELLER: The shoes were from

helicopter crews that flew to a Japanese flag ship that is so it's 50 miles closer to the power plant at sea, about -it's about half way so it's and it 50

miles from land as well, line of the plume.

was near the center

And when they flew back to Ronald Reagan, the contamination was found on the shoes of

the people that had gotten off and back onto the helo from the Japanese ship. MR. PONEMAN: And that was also of a

level 30 times what you expected or was there a different ratio? MR. MUELLER: Oh, this is -we use --

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90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 milliliter. MR. PONEMAN: Right, so it was the same know, MR. MUELLER: Micro-microcuries per 100 is something in it's in? MR. about -it's MUELLER: That's in -it's -so we have -we would expect nothing and got -for it's

about five times our minimum detectable frisking. MR. PONEMAN: And what is

that measured

10,000 micro-microcuries per 100
or per frisk. Does that measure out in

square centimeters, MR.

PONEMAN:

terms of rems or millirems? MR. MUELLER: No, that's -because this

contamination level. MR. PONEMAN: And 10,000 microcuries per

square centimeters. MR. PONEMAN: And how do you measure

what gets picked up from the detectors on board the Ronald Reagan? MR. MR. MUELLER: PONEMAN: Repeat that again please.
What was -the unit -you

the thing that was MR. MUELLER:

(audio distortion)

It

was microcuries per

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91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 milliliter, surface, in the air
--

thing you are talking about in

terms of the --

what

you picked up on the Reagan was also measured in microcuries per milliliters. MR. MUELLER: Yes, one's a concentration

MR. MR.

PONEMAN: MUELLER:

Yes.

Yes.

of microcuries per on the

and then the other value is the surface MR. (inaudible).

10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do that. first

PONEMAN:

So does Admiral

--

sorry

Minister D'Agostino or others in about this? MR. MR. them apprised. MUELLER: PONEMAN: No sir. Okay.

the DOE chain know

Well,

we better get

My alarm's gone off.

I got to jump on

another call but you are correct. handle this appropriately.

We do need to

There's other

communications that have been going on and I have got to make sure that this is factored into that.

So I am going to jump off this now but thing to do would be to brief Administrator

D'Agostino because we are going to have to bring him into this as well. ADMIRAL DONALD: Okay. Yes sir. We can

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92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 .23 24 25 still MR. PONEMAN: Okay. Thanks Admiral, and

thank you gentlemen. ADMIRAL DONALD: on the line? MR. WEBER: I'm still Yes. on. Okay have you got Okay. Michael are you

ADMIRAL DONALD: any questions? MR. WEBER: Well,

we have a bunch of

questions but I think for the purposes of this call, what we really need to do is get our technical folks

working with your technical folks.

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93

1 2 3 4
5

survey. MR. MUELLER: Right, but this is 100 So

nautical miles away at 2500 counts per minute. they don't even correlate,
just said. It's a different

the two numbers that you
--

it's

much worse if

we

6 7 8

are detecting 2500 counts per minute on people's shoes 50 miles away. MR. WEBER: Yes, but I don't know where was 50 miles off the

that other vessel was before it 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

coast. MR.
airborne at --

MUELLER:

That's true,

but with the

the airborne that we detected at 100

nautical miles, expect. MR. sample. It

that's far and above what we would

WEBER:

Yes,

but that is

from an air

does sound like you might have detected that air sample result but it

something above background, - particular result is

pretty small still,

might not be inconsistent with what we would expect. The bottom line is detected contamination. you know, you have

We need to understand and

case out the ground and then get back through diplomatic channels to the Japanese to make certain that they are aware of the information that we have.

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94 1 2 3 4 5 your staff MR. WEBER: So who could we work with on down? It would be

§
to chase this MR. MUELLER:

7 8 MR. WEBER: Okay. And how do we contact

2

6
9

him?
ADMIRAL DONALD: you a phone number. MR. WEBER: Okay, thank you. He's sitting here right We are going to give

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 next to us,

ADMIRAL DONALD:

so
MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR.

-

_m

WEBER:

Oh,

okay.

MUELLER:

(4
WEBER: MUELLER: WEBER: MUELLER: That's That's correct. Okay, that's

&

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97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. WEBER: MUELLER: Yes. Okay. So probably if
--

ADMIRAL DONALD: the best person to talk to, himself, is

maybe

not the Ambassador Have you got his

the defense attache.

number Troy? Hang on a minute. the number for you. MR. MR. WEBER: MUELLER: Okay.

We are going to get

I gotta get on the other

line to get that. ADMIRAL DONALD: Yes, hang with us.

We'll get you a phone number for the right person to talk to.

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98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 MR. WEBER: We understand. That's our

objective as well. ADMIRAL DONALD: MR. WEBER: Yes.

That's why we sent two of

our experts to Japan. ADMIRAL DONALD: MR. WEBER: Good. we
-

We don't have to wait if

15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

can get on calling

MR. MR. MR. MR. dial MR.

WEBER: MUELLER: WEBER: MUELLER:

Okay. Defense attache. Okay. His cell number, you would

WEBER: That's

All right.

Let me repeat

that back to you. MR.

MUELLER:

That's correct.

And let me

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99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25
center at

give you his office number. MR. MR. MR. 81332245375. MR. MR.
MR.

WEBER: MUELLER: WEBER:

All right. 011-81332245375. All right. That's 011-

MUELLER: WEBER:
MUELLER:

Yes, Okay.

that's

correct.

And his name

is

--

MR. MR.

WEBER: MUELLER: Right,ý And

can I get a number for how I can get a hold of you. MR.
301 --

WEBER:

Yes,

call our operations

MR. MR. MR. MR. turnover here, Virgilio,
this whole

MUELLER: WEBER: MUELLER: WEBER:

Okay. 816-5100. Okay. And we are going through Marty

so my successor here is sitting

and he is
call so --

here and he has been on

MR. phone number in ECC, is

MUELLER: this ECC,

Okay. in

Thank you.

And our

the naval reactor's

202-781-6397. MR. MR. WEBER: MUELLER: That's 202-781-6397. Right.

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100

MR. MR.
-thank

WEBER: MUELLER:

Okay. All right. Thank you very

you very much.

ADMIRAL DONALD: Michael. MR. WEBER:

All right.

Thanks

Thank you very much for the

information and we are on it. ADMIRAL DONALD: MR. WEBER: All right. Bye.

Bye bye.

NRC out.

ADMIRAL DONALD:

NR out.

(Conference call concludes)

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